The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Kevin Huerter on the Hawks' Struggles, Defending Trae Young, and Alter Egos, Plus Anthony Edwards and T’Wolves Love With Analyst Jim Petersen

Episode Date: January 26, 2022

Russillo is joined by Atlanta Hawks guard Kevin Huerter to discuss his NBA beginnings, the Hawks' 2021 playoff run, hopes for this season, defending Trae Young, his alter ego K'Von, and more (0:32). Then Ryen talks with analyst Jim Petersen about the impact of Timberwolves coach Chris Finch on the team, the budding Anthony Edwards, development of Karl-Anthony Towns, D'Angelo Russell's improvement, stories from Jim's basketball career and time with the WNBA, and more (29:59). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:07:29). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Kevin Huerter and Jim Petersen Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A lot of NBA on today's pod. We're just going to get right to it. Kevin Hurd of the Atlanta Hawks on his career and playing with Trey Young. And what's going on with his team? I thought they were going to be better. Also, Jim Peterson. Timberwolves, they are better. Eight and three in their last 11.

Anthony Edwards, 40 points last night. So this is going to be fun. And then, of course, a massive life advice that's also basketball related. So look out. Our next guest has been my white whale here for, I don't know, a year plus, maybe two. It's Kevin Herter of the Atlanta Hawks. What's up, man? How you doing?

Yeah, we finally got this to work. Thanks for having me on. You told me it was my schedule. I don't know. We had a couple things lined up. I mean, we had interest early. We were on this very early. I think it might have been the Maryland thing because of my guy Van Pelt. It could have been that. I think there was a realization too when I watched you. I don't know if it was Maryland or if it was the beginning of your pro career where I was like, you know what? This may not be a popular opinion, but I think this guy's a max player. I was kidding about the max part, but it was very clear early on. I'm like, I think this guy's got some stuff.

He's got some stuff to his game. So thanks for doing this. Yeah, of course. Yeah, I remember people were tweeting at me very early in my career saying, you know, I need to get on the podcast and do it. And obviously, you know, the recording times, it's always during our practice time. So that was always the tough part about getting it done.

But like I said, glad to be on and finally get to talk. All right. So what was your, you go on the first round, you know, you can shoot it, you got some size. I'm sure you just, we understand basketball. There's a buy-in, you know, when people look at you at first and be like, all right, this guy's good. I mean, you're probably doing that your whole

life. Did that happen in the NBA too? Yeah. I think I come across unassuming to everybody. I think it's one of those things that even when I was coming out of college, my draft stack wasn't too high. I had to go to the combine and really play well there for me to get into the first round.

Ever since I got in the NBA, I feel like it's been much of the same, just consistently having having to prove myself um you know even so today finally you know this summer was able to get the second contract done and yeah we still have a lot to prove both individually and as a team that uh i kind of like it you're flying under the radar a lot you're unassuming you're not always the first guy in the sky running report but uh hopefully by games then the other team can feel your presence. Was there a moment for you where, you know, everybody's different with this.

So it's either supreme confidence is sometimes misplaced, too much doubt, you know, realization. Was there ever like a little doubt? Hey, am I good enough to then in the moment? Did you have that kind of epiphany in your rookie year where you're like, oh, wait, like I got this? Yeah, I mean, my rookie year definitely did not start off great. You know, I was coming off of college. I had hand surgery in the summer going into my rookie year and

feel like I wasn't able to get better going from college at the NBA. And that summer is really important, just working on your game and get ready for the NBA game and missed all the training camp. And so my first NBA action, I was just kind of thrown in the fire in the preseason. It didn't play that well. Obviously, it wasn't comfortable. And the first couple of games didn't get a lot of playing time and I was definitely struggling a little bit. And they talked about I'd be sent down to the G League for a little bit,

just trying to work and catch my rhythm, catch the speed of the NBA. And a lot of the NBA. A lot of the NBA, it's always about opportunity. That year, a couple guys who were ahead of me got hurt. The Hawks really didn't have a choice at that time. They had to play me. I was one of the few guys on the roster that was healthy in my position. Once you play a couple games, you find your confidence, you find your rhythm,

you adjust to the speed of the game. Really a quarter of the way through my rookie year, I feel like I started to finally catch my rhythm. I think it was a game we were playing in Philly, ironically, my rookie year. I ended up having well into 20, and at the end of the game, I had the ball in my hands, I was making plays, and John Collins ended up hitting a game winner. We won that game on the road in Philly. I think that was, when you say found your confidence

where I knew I belonged, I think that was really the start of it. I knew that I was a player that belonged in this league and competed at a high level and played against really good players every night. What was it like to get 27 in Game 7 against the Sixers? It was one of those things it was like I was so in the moment that it didn't hit me or I didn't think about it

really till after the game or even a couple months after the game and even more so now that you know the Sixers are about to blow it up in some ways uh it was just one of those things like I knew I was hot like the first couple shots I took in that game were mid range pull-ups and those are all just rhythm shots. And they all went down for me. And, you know, I hit a three to the other half and it was one of those things like, all right, I got to go. And, uh, you'll play that whole game. And the worst thing you can do is have a good game and something like that. And you lose. So it really was like,

the only thing in my mind was like, you got to figure out a way to win this game because anything that I do wouldn't matter. People won't remember it. And, you know, continue to kind of hit shots that whole game, had a matchup I liked. And we come out with a W. And it was really after that, you know, we went to the next series and nobody talked about it too much.

But it was after the dust had settled, we finished the season. A couple of weeks went by that was like you look back and, you know, I went back home and people are talking about like how crazy it was to to watch that game and for me obviously it's a game i'll never forget this is kind of i'll give you kind of a timeline observation like you came in with trey um trey had that summer league where everybody's making fun of him being like this is the worst pick of all time all right so i get trey's attitude of like screw everybody because now he's turned himself into what's the perennial all-star. But prior to Nate taking over, I was like, whatever, they're just losing a million games again.

You know, I wasn't, you're not going to tell me the truth. You may completely disagree. I thought that Trey in the beginning of his career was a little tougher to play with despite his talent, because I felt like he felt like he had every position on his own. You can nod silently or not. I'm just kidding. I don't want to get you in trouble or anything like that um that sixer series changed everything for me because trey was the toughest dude on the court out of both teams um and we can get into this year being disappointed because we'll get to that but that was a real pivot for me where i was like

oh man i'm like this dude doesn't he doesn't give a shit. He's not afraid of anybody out there. What was that like for you to experience? Yeah, I mean, just like any player, Trey went through growth to start his career, just like anybody else does. And he's such an elite talent that his whole life, it's, you know, he's had the ball in his hands and he's making plays. And everybody's just kind of playing off him because he's the best player on the court and he wanted the ball in his hands and he's making plays and everybody's just kind of playing off him because he's the best player on the court and you wanted the ball in his hands and um so yeah to start his career there's definitely some growing pains there's growing pains for everybody and um you know once we once we caught a rhythm last year and it it started a little bit before the playoffs once we caught a rhythm um i think he started to trust the guys around him and the guys around him

started playing better and making shots and uh shots and proving themselves that you can make big plays in big moments. We got in the playoffs, and he had a big just like F you to everybody, and I feel like everybody followed that, and it did. It started in that New York series. He was hated the second we started that series, and his whole life, everyone telling him he's too small or too this and comparing him to Luka. There's always these comparisons that follow him.

I think he had a lot to prove in that first playoff run that he could win and that he could win at a high level in this league. That's not something that changes. He has it tattooed on him that he never forgets. He's somebody that always plays with a chip on his shoulder, and I feel like he'll last year, the energy that he brought and kind of the attitude he brought to every game was something that our team definitely followed.

Coming into this year. I was so excited about the depth because I think you could throw shooters at people. You can throw size at guys, you know, Deandre not being healthy hurts because of some of the wing defensive, you know, problems.

I think that you probably would admit to. Before we get into kind of what this has meant for this year, give me a scouting report. Like, what's your role on the team? What's Trey like? You know, who's the guy you're closest with? Because there's a lot of guys that are all looking for minutes. So sometimes I worry about, does everybody get along? Or, you know, is everybody kind of still so young and new to this that it's still a fun

experience, even if this year hasn't been to the point that you probably expect it to be? Yeah, I mean, I really see my role as kind of a do-it-all kind of role. And that could change game by game, whether I'm starting, whether I'm not starting. I've always seen myself as a player who elevates the game of everybody else on the court. And that's whether offensively, finding guys' shots, you know, being a ball mover. Defensively, you know, who I'm guarding, being able to guard multiple positions,

you know, being able to switch with bigs. And then obviously at times being more aggressive, looking for my own shot, trying to score. But that's not always the case game by game. Like you said, our team, we have so many weapons. We're not healthy a lot. We're finally healthy right now, and it's great to have all these weapons on the court.

You talked about having DeAndre Hunter back and his defensive presence. So I think he's one of the underrated. He's one of the best defenders in the league that people don't really know about yet. He's been caught by a couple bad luck, had some injuries, but we can keep him on the court. It feels like he scored 20 every game for us.

He's got another team's best players. Trey goes in, he gets 30 most nights. And, you know, having John and Clint kind of clean up the middle and Bogie and myself being shooters and Gallo being a shooter, you know, we definitely feel like we have a lot of weapons and we have a lot of different options. We can win games in a variety of ways. And, you know, offensively, we can really be elite.

For us, everything is going to be figuring out the defensive end. Having someone like DeAndre back has been huge. Everybody just buying in a little bit more, showing a little bit more effort and urgency. I don't think maybe our urgency to start the year was where it should be. I think it's picking up as of late. I wouldn't want to do this guy on report against our team. So I'll leave it at that.

It's, you know, I think we have a lot of people you got to worry about and you know, if we're all clicking at the right time, I think we can beat anybody. Yeah. I thought it was weird when I'd heard like, yeah,

we're a little bored going into the year and you're like, no, you're a young team. You're supposed to be like going into this fire up, you know, like it was great. You made it to the conference finals last year. Congrats on the series against Philly.

But no, now it's now it's time to turn it on. And yeah, the defensive numbers, you already know this. They've been terrible. Do you do you collectively? I know the answers, of course, we believe in ourselves. But do you collectively believe that you should be back towards the top three or four teams in the East? We do. I mean, you know, within the past week, we've beaten a lot of the top teams that are in the East and we feel like we're

right there. And like I said, we feel like if we're healthy and guys are clicking that we can, we can beat anybody that's both in the, that's both in the East. That's in the West. We just have to prove it. And, you know, we've, we definitely dug ourselves a hole, dug ourselves a hole to start the year and won seven or eight straight and dug ourselves a hole again. And, you know, we got hit by COVID pretty hard and had guys in out of the lineup and now we're trying

to climb ourselves out again but you know in a lot of ways we feel like we can get to 500 you know we're right back in the mix in the Eastern Conference we're right back in a seven or eight if we're 500 and you get hot again you can get up into that five or six and you know from there it's anybody's ball game so we got a lot to do still um you know i think to start there i don't i don't like boring i i don't know if his because i remember trey said that he said that a quote i'm not it's a bad quote it was it was a bad quote right i'm not sure it's exactly what he meant it was definitely like the urgency you go from playing in those games and the energy that's in the building and it was our first time and then you go to game one and it one and you're looking at the seed

and you're like, we got 82 of these before we get back to where we just were two months ago. And so I think that was staring at us in the face a little bit. And being a young team, the first time, again, that we're going through it, we're, hey, we got to start the year. And the regular season matters. You got to position yourselves in the playoffs to get there. Some we didn't handle well, obviously. and now we have to deal with it.

All right, how did the cave-on thing start? It's funny. It was old teammates. It was really DeAndre Hunter, Torian Prince. It was back in my second year, and it was an alter ego. It was like every game that I played well or scored a lot, they'd come in, and I was like, damn, you were cave-on on yesterday I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the the culture of Atlanta and uh you know the people that follow our games and our fans and um it was something

that kind of stuck on and once it got out everybody loved it so basically if I score if I score 20 or more in a game I'm cave on and if I don't then I'm I'm Kevin and uh you know if I'm scoring five or below or ten or below or something like that and it's an ugly game they call me Kelvin so there's three different types of alter egos. Who gives you the most shit then on the team? Who's your buddy or is it hopefully it's your buddy someone you get along with I don't know. Yeah me and John bust on each other a lot. He was someone I came in, and he wasn't obviously a rookie with us, but he was never someone that was trying to make any of the rookies do stuff,

and we connected right away. Been through a lot of games together, a lot of losses, a lot of wins, but I would say we bust on each other a lot. Same with D-Hunt. But our team as a whole, our locker room is close, and it has to be. If there's a tournament of one-on-one amongst you guys, who wins? Tournament of one-on-one? Yeah.

Trey is obviously a good one-on-one player. Just defensively, I think that would definitely be. If he got ball first, I think it would be tough. But DeHunt's actually a good one-on-one player. He's got a shot that it's tough to block. He kind of shoots it behind his head, so he can really get off any shot he wants. Defensively, he's obviously tough to score on. But I'm saying the sleeper is Danilo Gallinari.

That guy, like, one-on-one is almost unstoppable. When I was out for COVID covid he was out for code at the same time and uh the last couple days when when we were both clear symptom wise and um and we were set to come back you know our build-up we were playing one-on-one against each other and and there was some times man this guy hit some tough shots and if you if you're someone who knows him or has seen him throughout his career he's someone that he hits a lot of shots that you think shouldn't be going in or you're questioning how he got it off and he makes it. But Gallo's definitely, he's a sneaky one-on-one player.

I'll watch him some nights and I go, is he even moving out there tonight? Like, what's going on? And then he just kind of finds his spot and he doesn't have to dribble much. And sometimes it's also wild to be like, what's he doing tonight? And then some nights it's just on. He gets the easiest 20 points I've seen in my career so far my short career i remember like playing against him when he was on the thunder and it was like you really didn't notice it and you look over the end of game and he's got 18 to 20 and then he gets on our team and for the most part we've been bringing

him off the bench and he goes in he plays 18 minutes like you said it doesn't look like he bends his knees one time and you look up and he's got 20 he's just kind of that kind of player uh what's it like for you in atlanta you know this is a team that's definitely like it it feels like it's so embraced when things are like atlanta can be in atlanta's had a nice run between georgia and and the braves here um i realize that georgia is is not exactly downtown atlanta but what's it like for you you know year four coming out of maryland being a pro nba player and and walking around and being part of the community i really enjoy it i actually i really like the city um yeah i'm from upstate new york i'm not i'm not from a big city i'm not from anywhere that's near a big city the closest

obviously being being new york that's a little over two and a half hours away. For me, I think I enjoy being in a city that's lively. It feels like all the teams, when I first got here, were right at the start of their rebuild. That's us. That's the Braves. I think the Falcons were really good when I first got here and kind of went into a mini rebuild here in the last couple of years. The soccer team has been good.

But, you know, it's a city that I feel like truly has embraced all the young guys on each roster. And, you know, they root for you and they're excited about what the future holds. And so from the second I got here, it's been a lot of love. And, you know, people obviously rooting for us. And it's a fun city to be a part of. Obviously, really good sports teams. The weather is great. I live pretty much in the city. and so I walk around a lot.

There's great food. So far, I love it. Obviously, you win more, everything's a lot better. So the run we made last year definitely helped a lot. Do you have your talk shit moment? Do you talk shit to anybody? I'm not a big shit talker i never really have been what about to you there had to have been somebody early that was just like

there is no there's a couple obviously that's really every year i think you know one that was funny and you know we're both represented by the same agent so we talked to each other it was you know me and bradley bill a couple years ago we had i think we both got double texts in one game but um after the game it was one of those things like we're laughing talking about it uh and that what did you what did you say to each other you remember he was i think he scored on me he had an one and i was guarding him all game and he knows i was doing well on him too but i was guarding him so he had an one and just like held the ball out and gave it to me and so i like shoved the ball away like said something and uh both got texts but he was at the free throw line just kind of laughing and it was in some ways I felt like he knew that

like I was the young guy like you know our agent told him at some point like hey look out for our guy Kev he always on the Hawks um you know Brad is someone I obviously respect his game tremendously he's one of the best scorers in this league so if you go out there and you can hold him to not 30, I feel like you did a good job. I'd like to know who started the, this is a little different, but who started the, no matter what, never give the ball back to the ref.

Make sure you walk away 10, 20 feet and then drop it behind you instead of just turning and being like, here, I know you have to check it. This is a new thing. It's not new, but it's league-wide now. Every guy decides, I'm just going to be a pain in the ass after this call and then put the ball over here.

Who started that? Do you ever do it? I mean, it's being petty for sure. And there's so many rules about what you can say to a ref, what you can't say to a ref, how you're supposed to treat a ref and you know being respectful towards them and they'll be respectful back and a lot of times it's not the case and so i think in some ways you know holding the ball after a play and walking away with it technically you're not breaking any rules but the ref he knows what you're doing and he knows how you're doing it and you're just kind

of trying to be difficult for a second. I think it's something that I'm not sure who started it, but it's something that everyone's picked up on. It's kind of like a mini-FU, like, hey, I didn't agree with that call you just had. It's out of control right now. Dwight loves doing it, too, but Dwight doesn't get the ball that often, so that's why he wants to hang on to it the entire time. It's true.

Certain guys get away with it over others yeah you you get that too because when i watch you i don't i would never call you a complainer you're definitely not a complainer um but you have you probably have moments where you feel like i gotta i gotta say something even though i think league wide complaining is way too much um you know you probably i don't know if you feel differently about that one i just feel like okay we every call, every single call here now. But when is it for you? When do you know, okay, this is the decision where I feel like I need an audience for the

way things are going? Yeah, I think it's obviously, it depends on who I'm guarding or it depends on who's guarding. You got to realize that superstars get more calls than the rest of the crew as much as nobody wants to admit it. Everyone knows it's true. It's totally true. It's not. And then there's almost,

it's, you know, you want refs to trust you. So in a lot of ways you can't, or at least I try not to, I try not to argue when I know I fouled somebody. If I fouled somebody, I'll keep my mouth shut.

I'll kind of give him a nod. Like, yeah, I fouled him. So then the next time that I go up to him and I'm emotional about something or i'm pissed off and i don't think i fouled him that they actually believe me and the best thing you do and this is like something that i do is kind of because i also i want the ref i want the ref to also know he's wrong so i want so i want to tell him on the court a lot of times they don't obviously they don't agree and that's why they called it differently

than what i think and so if it's the first half i always go in i'm like go back and look at that play at halftime and tell me if i'm right and so right away it's like we have to have another conversation at halftime and most of the time it's somebody telling me like yeah i might have missed that or no you didn't and then we have another talk at halftime and so it's a subtle way of keeping the conversation going or if i'm going up in the middle of the game and and i'm telling somebody i didn't foul somebody or i'm trying to look up at the scoreboard you can't the refs don't want to look up at the um at the big screen during the game but if you tell them like hey go back at halftime and tell me i'm wrong you know usually they'll go in they'll re-watch the play and sometimes they'll come out and be like kevin

missed that and um yeah you expect to make a call in the second half. See, I like that, though. I think that's smart. It's tactical. It's like, I've got to make sure I use my spots. Let me be delicate about this. I can't stand watching Kyle Lowry play, but I respect what he brings to a team. I respect what he is. I also have some weird respect that he believes he's right that often about some of the calls. I'll look at him and go, this is actually amazing that you could believe you're right.

Right. Well, there's so many guys like that where it's guys who have been in the league a long time, have a lot of respect within coaches, within refs, and you're on the court and they blatantly hack somebody. There's a call that they're arguing and you're on the court and it's, you know, they blatantly hack somebody or they're, they blame, or there's a call that they're arguing and they're, and they're following the ref to the scorer's table and they're remote. And you're kind of sitting there like, man, you fouled them. Like, well, why are we sitting here? Why are we arguing about this? And, um,

you'll call someone that again, when you're guarding them, he's so good at drawing fouls that you gotta be extra careful when you're guarding them. And he definitely gets more calls than I guess a rookie would get just because he knows the NBA rules. He knows how to manipulate the rules. And Kyle's unbelievable, obviously, for what he's doing to be. But there's so many guys like that, that it really doesn't matter what the play is.

It's almost like they're arguing just to argue, just to start talking to the refs, I guess. Yeah. I mean, even Harden the other day just came out and said he's mad about the calls that he's getting. And I'm like, dude, you're back to third in free throw attempts per game right now in the NBA. But that's just the way everybody's wired.

All right, so this is good, because I asked your GM, Travis, about this. I said, do you ever have moments when Trey drives and then he projectiles himself backwards into a guy and gets the call where you laugh with guilt and you laugh with guilt and travis was funny about the answer he's like well there's and so that was the big thing coming into this year they're gonna stop doing it because i hate it i hate it so much what's the maddest you've seen an opponent get at trey getting one of those calls because i've seen some because i watch you guys a lot i

really like a lot of the depth this team has and you of course, but sometimes I see guys where I'm like, I can't believe they're not going to either go in the tunnel at half or retire. I actually, it's, it really is. It's like every single game that he gets,

whoever is guarding him, he gets somebody like so pissed off and going to the refs. And yeah, I honestly, I can't imagine how frustrating it is the guy that to have to guard trey in a game you know he's it's like every little thing you know if you're touching him he knows how to draw he knows how to draw hands where he's he's swiping his hands through and he's getting a call if you're trailing him on the screen he knows how

to stop and throw his body where he just you know he stops his momentum guys carry themselves into him he hits him and he draws a foul. Going to the rim, if you're trying to get physical with him, he's light enough that, you know, he can fall off and draw fouls. But every other moment of the game, he's bumping into guys. You know, he knows how to manipulate calls. If you give him space, he's hitting threes. And everybody, you go into every game and you know that Trey is 1A, 1B, 1C on everybody's scouting report,

and it's how can we stop this guy. And to go in and all these big athletes, the big long threes of the NBA and the big forwards, and you're going in, and you're like, you're guard Trey, and you walk out, and you look at him, and you're like, this guy is the guy who's averaging 30 a night, and he goes into games. I think the funniest part is when he does that thing where he stops and he kind of just, and he goes into a shot, you know, there's times he, he, he splits guys lips.

So the back of his head is hit guys and they're getting a little blood on their lips and they're going to the ref. Like, how are you calling that on me? And Trey's at the free throw line to shoot free throws. And I think for me, that's where I like, I think visibly i'll be on the court just kind of laughing like i would be so like frustrated guarding this guy in a game there you can't really touch them like he's so good at drawing fouls and manipulating him that he can't get physical with him and then he'll do it right back all right you're being very diplomatic about this idea that he just stops and then people run into him when he he he doesn't do it as much because he knew he wasn't getting away with it as

much this year. Um, when he, he jumps backwards into somebody. Okay. He jumps backwards when he split Tim Hardaway, junior's chin in the, he was like the very,

very beginning of the season and Hardaway get called with a foul. Trey's still mad. By the way, nobody gets madder before the call he's about to get than trey young like he's about to get the call and he's already turned and he's incensed and the ref's like my arm is already up like what what's the issue and hardaway's going my chin is bleeding like what are you talking about um i do think he stopped going backwards as much because they were they were on the lookout for it this season.

But I think, again, between some of the top free throw guys, I think the league is kind of, you know, it's sort of, it's gone kind of back to not entirely what it was. But I don't think that was going to be a league long thing or a year long thing. It certainly isn't. No, and it's, and like I said, it's, you know, Tim, he's one of the, he's on a short list of guys that that's happened to. He's not the only guy that he's gotten his lips split. But it really is every team, they go into every game, and they try to be physical. And it feels like no matter what teams are doing,

he knows a way to draw a foul of how teams are being physical. You're going to try to bottom me up, I can fall. You're going to bottom me up, I'm just going to stop when I'm going to a shot. You're trying to get handsy, can swipe through and draw fouls he's so good at manipulating fouls that it's got to be frustrating and tim hardaway he's like i said he caught it i think the first game of the year like you're talking about and literally walking away off the court with a bloody lip and trays at the free throw line and he's the one who drew the foul uh i remember n Nash in a game.

I don't want to spend any more time on this, but Nash was just incensed one game last season where he's like, this just isn't basketball. It's like, this isn't basketball. He was freaking out about it. That was someone too. So, I mean, Steve is, Trey's learned a lot of his game from Steve.

So that was kind of something that when he said it, I was like, hey, he was watching film of his game from Steve. So that was kind of something that when he said it, I was like, I was like, hey, he was, he's watching film of you and how you're drawing fouls and how you used to play. So I think it's different now. He has to coach against them. But Steve wasn't, wasn't an enemy of the refs. He was someone that was out there and he was drawing fouls and knew how to manipulate the game.

Just like everybody else today. I feel like I've made the interview about this too much, so I want to finish up here shortly. And just so anybody knows, as a media voter now, I voted for Trey to be a starter, despite my annoyance at times with all of this. So you're good. You guys think, man, at the beginning of the year,

I was like, look at all of these guys. Look at all these options. Even Okonkwo, when he comes in, and I'm like, the rotation of bigs for them. And I know you moved on from Cam because there probably just wasn't enough room, even though he had shown glimpses. I think defensively, maybe there's some issues there, too. What's going to happen with his team this year? Because there's some hopes for him.

It's a great question. We've won four in a row as of right now and um to have another game wednesday but we feel like we're definitely we're playing better but you know we still we have a lot of ground to make up you know we're still we're four games under 500 and you lose a game now you're five games it's really every single game for us matters and um you know the way the injury bug has been our team in the past, and luckily I think we've gotten through COVID, but we really can't get too comfortable.

We feel like if we're on the court, we have the talent to win a lot of games in a row and beat really anybody. But we're still in a hole here that we have to dig ourselves out of. So we get to 500. We can get into a game. I think we have really good players at every position and really good players that back up every position that um we can be a team that can make another deep run we just have to get there first well i hope it happens for you because i actually started

to really enjoy you guys and i don't i don't know if you can answer this i was going to ask for bill simmons hey why do the celt, why are they so easy to predict offensively at the end of close games? You probably couldn't answer that for us, could you? Probably couldn't. I haven't seen as many of their end of games as you guys have at the same time. All right. We'll work on that

one for you next time. Although I'd get you in all sorts of trouble if you ever answered that. I actually don't think it's that complicated of an answer. Hey man, good luck to the second half of the season looking forward to it it's been a lot of fun seeing you now in your four years and getting the contract and the whole deal is as a kid that i remember van pelt just being like dude i just heard a guy's pretty good it's like yeah no he is good um so you know i know this isn't the biggest goal the ultimate goal but it's been a it's been a lot of things checked off the list here so far for you kevin so thanks again

yeah thank you i really appreciate having me on hopefully we can do this again not in two years but it's been a lot of things checked off the list here so far for you, Kevin. So thanks again. Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate having me on. Hopefully we can do this again. Not in two years. Yeah. Now that we've made the connection, it'd be easy to close this one in. Thanks again.

If you're a league pass guy like I am, he's easily in the top five. He might even be a little bit higher for me, butim peterson was the analyst for the minnesota timberwolves he's been on tv since 2003 he's been radio since 98 and he joins us now to talk some timberwolves and maybe a little story time as well what's up man i'm glad we finally got to do this i've been a huge fan for such a long time you were terrific on the broadcast likewise you know uh you and ben pelt and Ben Pelt, I mean, I go back a long ways with you guys too. And I've been a big fan and we've been trying to do this for a while. I just was telling you before we came on camera that, you know, it's been a rough 17 years, right. Um, ever since, uh, you know, the Western conference finals with Cassell Sprewell and

Garnett, um, it's been one thing after another one thing after another. And I feel like we finally are on solid footing. I think one of the mantras for me is, in Finch, we trust. And I think Chris Finch is showing he's got the coaching chops. He absolutely does. I could start there because I remember last season why I had some glimmer of hope, obviously with a ceiling on the level of hope that I had for the Timberwolves this year, was that I just felt like there was an attitude adjustment with this team that I saw at the end of the regular season, where I was watching them

fight and having stretches where I go, this team is different. Their mentality seems to be a little bit different. And I understand the Finch thing nationally wasn't a popular transition because it was a little non-traditional, but I had multiple teams or multiple people from different teams around the league going, Hey, whatever anybody's saying about Finch, they don't even know anything about this guy because he is outstanding. So what is the head coach done to kind of change some of this? Well, I mean, it, it, it goes like you were talking about how, um, sort of against the grain his hiring was. I mean, you know, the Wolves are in New York

and Gerson Rosas decides to let Ryan Saunders go and Coach Finch is hired immediately. And there was no process. And that's one of the things that Rick Carlisle kind of had a problem with, you know, is, you know, ever since the George Floyd thing, you know, a lot of scrutiny need be more black head coaches in this league. And so, you know, when you don't go through a process and there's some eyebrows that are raised.

But, Ryan, when when Chris Finch came in kind of under this firestorm, he was so calm, cool and collected. He just he just was in control, you know, and in a great way. And, you know, one of the things I always say is, I kind of compare a lot of executives and coaches and NBA people to Kevin McHale, because McHale is one of the greatest people in our organization. I've known Kevin McHale since I was in high school. So that's 1980. Kevin recruited me to go to Minnesota when I was in high school and him and Flip Saunders both. And McHale just has a great way about him. Like as great a player as he was, he's just like every man, you know, and he's got a great sense of humor, great storyteller. And McHale was just

the best to be around talking the game, being funny. And so Mac would tell me about Chris Finch. When Mac was in Houston, J.B. Bickerstaff and Chris Finch were both on McHale's staff. And Kevin would tell me what a great personality he was. And all the people in the Rockets organization would say, this Chris Finch guy is unbelievable. And I had never really even heard him speak up until the time we met him in a Zoom when he was hired um and when he's hired he comes in and he's just in control he's calm cool collected funny connects with the guys right away um and you know it was it was during covid we weren't traveling with the team last year so we were kind of like you know at arm's distance i didn't really meet ch Finch until this past summer and where I was around him.

And so, you know, all of his postgame press conferences, he was so insightful. He's a wordsmith. He likes the English language. And so the way that he phrases things is just so good. And then the way he connects with players but and so this year when training camp started um you know we're we're now able to be in the building and we're watching training camp and i'm i'm now able to see chris finch uh in his element coaching and he does a great job deferring too he he lets mike and nori coach um he lets all the other assistants kind of have their thing he's not controlling everything um but then when he's speaking and when he's teaching,

you know how when you see somebody speak, they're just on another level and the level of communication? And he's so cool because he's telling them why he wants things done. And then when they're out there messing up, he will hit the boiling point and he will go off. But in a controlled way that is just super succinct. And so I just can't say enough about how he's come in and sort of taken over the organization and been so calm, cool, and collected and so smart.

And the way that he's changed the defensive concepts, I mean, the Wolves were one of the worst defensive teams in the league, you know, over the past seven to ten years. And, you know, Rick Adleman had a couple years where he was pretty good. But Finch has come in and he really has changed how Minnesota's done things. So I just, I can't say enough about what a good person he is, how funny he is, how he connects with people,

and how inclusive he is. It's been great. There has been a long time for Timberwolves fans wondering. I always talk about when you're tanking or when you're just losing, you hope to be in place with assets to have hope, right? And that was what Towns was, and that's what Wiggins was. The Wiggins part of it doesn't work out. Take on the Russell trade, and you're worried about.

And Levine, too. Right, yeah. But, I mean, look, the Jimmy Butler thing, I worried about and, and Levine too. Right. Yeah. But I mean, look, the Jimmy Butler thing, I think all of us understood the packaging of that, you know, for Jimmy, although I was watching you the other night when he was out for rest in one of those games a few years ago, when you were losing your mind on the intro, um, what was the Jimmy Butler era like for you? Um, well, see, here's the thing.

Um, you know, I think that, um, when Flip was, when Flip Saunders put that team together, when he, you know, he, uh, he got Wiggins and Zach Levine and then Towns came after that. Um, and now you've got this, this young nucleus. And I think everybody was kind of like, you know, envious of that. Um, when, when, you know, Flip tragically passed away and Sam Mitchell took over, Sam did a great job, actually, with those young guys. He really connected with them. And then Mr. Taylor decided to bring in Tom Thibodeau. And Tibbs, that first year, he goes 31 and 51.

But during that season, Zach Levine tears his ACL. And it was in Detroit. It was just one of those things. It was kind of a nothing play. just it's one of those things it was kind of a nothing play and when Zach tore his ACL uh it kind of forces Tibbs's hands because now you know when you go 31 and 51 you're you're brought in to get the team to the playoffs uh Tibbs is going to do what he needs to do and so when you're president of basketball operations and the coach you know I mean you're willing to make some choices and so I think you know when when you trade Zach Levine away, it's like of those three,

Sam Mitchell and I would talk about this. Wiggins was probably one that was the most talented just in raw talent. Towns was probably the most skilled. But Zach Levine was the one that, boy, the way he was wired up, Ryan, and you can see what he's doing now in Chicago. The kid just loved the game game and he was so athletically gifted and on a level that is very rare. And you have to agree that Zach Levine is, from a physical standpoint, he was a freak of nature. So of the three, Towns and Zach were

the ones that I personally would have kept. And so when Tibbs shipped him out, I was a little bit disappointed just because I knew what he was. And i think we kind of all knew what he was but when you get jimmy butler back in in that deal i i i get it look look i get it but i the plan of trying to get and keep jimmy long term just wasn't there so then you're kind of in this pattern of like all right the jimmy thing doesn't work out you lose the asset levine and on top of some of the other pieces involved in that trade, which would have been marketing, but whatever. Then Anthony Edwards comes along. I wasn't sure out of Georgia other than physically how

special he was. It's funny because we had some guys at the top of that draft in general just like, can any of them shoot? Anthony Edwards, this thing happened at least for me this year with him, where beginning of the year, I'm like, I am all in on this guy. It's not just the numbers. It's not just the dunks. It's that there is something. Even last night, there was a moment last night in the Portland game. He goes for 40. And this is the stuff I noticed with him. He was back as Portland was taking free throws. And I think you only had two on the free throw rebound. And he sees it and he turns to one of the teammates

and yells to be like, whoa, what are you doing? Like, get up there. And I went, I love this guy. So what is he? Because he seems to just be, like, it's not, a lot of guys get numbers, but this feels like the kind of talent and kind of personality you can actually kind of guys get numbers, but this feels like the kind of talent and kind of personality you can actually kind of think long-term about what your team is capable of.

He's a killer. He's a killer. He is. He thinks he can win any matchup. No moment is too big for him. He's super confident. He wants to be great. He's super confident. He wants to be great. He's coachable. He's like all the things you'd want a player to be from an intangible standpoint,

that's what he is. He was plug and play from a media standpoint. I mean, the guy would come in and win the press conference every single time. He had people cracking up, which shows you a level of intelligence. You know what I mean? He's a high-functioning kid. He's really smart. And he comes in and wins the press conference and has people cracking up and he just tells the truth and he's so raw. But then on the court, I mean, you've seen it for yourself.

I mean, you've watched a lot of Anthony Edwards, so you know how no moment's too big for him. He could, he's, he's very confident. He's, he's learned a lot on the defensive end. He was not good last year as a rookie. He didn't have a lot of awareness, but he wants to be good. And then there have been players that have come and mentored him. Ricky Rubio last year, and then Patrick Beverly this year. Patrick Beverly's been, I don't know nationally if people understand how important Pat Bev has been to the culture and fabric of this team,

but he's made everybody committed to the defensive end, and it's not just Pat Bev has been to the culture and fabric of this team. But he's made everybody committed to the defensive end, and it's not just Pat Bev. It's also the way that Pat Bev has transformed D'Angelo Russell and the way that he's communicated. If you watched the game last night, Ryan, you saw Anthony Edwards go over to the bench and Pat Bev in his ear telling him, talking to him. And so that's the way Pat Bev has been with him.

It's been great the way that they've sort of coalesced. But I just love Anthony Edwards because he wants to win, and that's the main thing. And so it's all about winning for him and watching him at practice, watching him working up for the game. This kid wants to be great. And if you're a Timberwolves fan you love him for that what's the town's development been like you know you've seen it as close as anyone I think he comes in a league remember there was the GM survey where

it was like it went from Anthony Davis to I 51% of the GMs or whatever the number was would start their franchise with Carl Anthony Towns so then it it's like, wait, is he this guy? And then it doesn't look like he's that guy. And then it turns into all sorts of criticism. And yet he still is one of the most skilled big men we've ever seen. But it didn't necessarily, you know, it was a lot of losses too. So I don't know what's fair about what I think nationally we would say about Towns. I think he gets a lot of criticism. Some of it is fair, but I think for the most part,

Carl is up there with Embiid and Jokic in terms of the talent level. The three-point shooting is there. The low post game is there. Defensively, he's been criticized, but I would say that no one's been through more than Carl Anthony Towns. I mean, Nikola Jokic has had the same coaching staff, or at least Mike Malone has been there the entire time. When you think of Joel Embiid, I mean, he had Brett Brown

the entire time, and then he gets Doc Rivers, another great coach who's going to be a Hall of Fame coach. So the stability that Embiid and Jokic have had, and even Rudy Gobert, I mean, Rudy Gobert's had Quinn Snyder the entire time and had a system in place that really caters to what Rudy Gobert does. So when you talk about Ryan, the top centers in the league, no one's been through more than Carl Anthony Towns. When Carl's drafted, Flip Saunders passes away. Sam Mitchell takes over. Tom Thibodeau comes in. The dust up between Jimmy Butler and Carl Anthony Towns happens. Then COVID hits. Ryan Saunders is the coach and COVID hits and Carl loses his mother. And so now finally he's got some stability. First time in seven years in

the NBA, he's finding his teammates around him and a coaching staff that supports him. And I think Chris Finch is the perfect coach right now. And you know, listening to Carl post game, like sometimes he says some stuff that you kind of like say, wow, like did he really just say that? But what I love about Carl, and I've talked to him a bunch, and I love Carl Anthony Towns because he wants to win first. He wants to be great second. And then he doesn't really have, like if you listen to him in his postgame pressers,

like he wants to win. He doesn't care about the statistics. He doesn't care about him shooting. He's willing to defer. He said it last night, postgame after the Portland game, when Ant was going off, he didn't want to mess things up by taking shots,

sort of like, you know, Chris Finch would say in a record scratch kind of way. And so Carl doesn't want to. So he was totally deferring. And when his number is called, he's willing to take it. But I think Carl's a lot tougher than people think. I think Carl has not had the kind of stability that all these other players have had.

And I think now that Chris Finch is here, I think you're going to see the best of Carl Anthony Towns. All right. So you mentioned D'Angelo Russell and the Pat Beverly part of it, which was terrific. It's like, by the way, have I noticed Pat Beverly on the bench? It's impossible during any broadcast to not notice that he's over there. I'll be honest.

D'Angelo Russell at times has been one of my least favorite players to watch play basketball. I know how incredibly talented he is, the shot making, the vision. I mean, he had a couple of passes late last night where I was like, oh my God, like that's what I loved about him in college is some of the passing. But then over the

course of it, like I'll never forget watching a Nets game where they kept him on the bench during overtime because they were just like, Kenny Atkins is like, I have a better chance at this. I think last year at times with your team, it was ugly. I think you guys were fair on the broadcast about it where he'll float defensively where you're just like i have no idea what you're doing and how you could lose the assignment here but it is tightened up and uh i would say you're more complimentary of it and it's and it's made me because you've been more complimentary as opposed to you know at the times where you have to be fair you have to be critical but these are your home guys you know you're not going to get on them the same way some guy in a podcast is i've sensed a pivot both in his game and the way that you talk about him.

So what have you noticed with D'Angelo? Well, I don't know how much you've heard D'Angelo's talk, talk the game. I don't know if you've heard him interviewed as much, but he is really high functioning guy, man. His basketball IQ is off the charts and he's great to talk the game with. So you have that. So you know that his basketball IQ is high. And so he knows what the right thing is to do. And now it's just a willingness to be able to get it done.

And so that's where I say, you know, Patrick Beverly, I'm going to sit down with Patrick Beverly here coming up, and we're going to do a video room chat. And, um, um, you know, I'm just, he's been a culture changer. You know, he was that way in Houston. I talked to Mikhail about, um, when Pat Bev first came, cause Mac was the coach, Vince was on the bench. Um, and, and, uh, what Pat Bev did to Houston to change the culture there. And then when he did with the Clippers as well,

in terms of bringing toughness. So when Pat Bev comes in and he holds people accountable and now all of a sudden d'angelo russell is leading our team in defensive net rating so like in defense i know so he's leading us in defensive rating he's leading us in net rating so offensively he's gotten the last month for d-low the lids come off the basket the passing thing has been unlocked and defensively one of the things that he's doing Ryan which I think is important is that he's you know Pat Bev takes the the tough point guard matchup whether it's Mike Conley whether it's John Morant whether it's Chris Paul it's going to be Patrick Beverly on

that player and then we've got the defensive versatility to put a Jaden McDaniels on that player too. So D'Lo typically is guarding somebody that's three and D, that's spotted up in the corners. So in this concept that Chris Finch runs now, like last year with Ryan Saunders and David Vanderpool, the Wolves would deploy a drop coverage concept, which you're trying to guard the pick and roll with two players. And the other three take away the three-point shot.

So you want to guard the ball screen actions with two guys. You don't want to get help and start getting into rotation. Well, Chris Finch completely scrapped that. And he got talent up at the point of attack. And so now we are in rotation. We are flying around. And it really requires that the low man be communicative. So because the tone that Pat Bev set, everybody's accountable. D'Angelo Russell is one of the best communicators. He's out there. You can hear him on

the basket mics, talking the game, talking about coverages. I'm the low man. Hey, you got to get here. Carl, get over there. Like he's really, and communication is for a coach. Communication is probably one of the most important things. You hear Jeff Van Gundy talk about this all the time when guys are running out to call the ball screen, early, loud, and continuous, right? You want players talking early, loud, and continuous. Well, that's D-low.

And so when it comes to being a low man, one of the things you've got to do is when Towns is up redirecting the ball handler and the roller's rolling, if you're the low man on the backside, you've got to come and pick up that roller. A lot of times those people are a lot bigger than D'Angelo Russell, and he's been able to do that.

And then he's also been willing to take charges, which we've never really seen before from him. And the other thing that defense requires in the NBA is extra efforts you need multiple efforts within a possession and so D'Angelo Russell he wouldn't always be willing to go close out Ryan and a guy that was open like in a rotation situation D'Angelo wasn't always willing to sprint out there he is now He's been doing it consistently all season long. And you've got to give the flowers, man, when they are doing it. D'Angelo Russell deserves a lot of credit for completely changing his philosophy in the defense today.

Yeah, I mean, look, there's younger guys in this team. I mean, even Anthony Edwards, he had CJ in the fourth quarter who didn't really do much in a tight game. He didn't really even get – I think he got two shots off. I think three on the log chart. But I remember one play where McCollum's going through to the other side of the paint and Ant's following him, and then Ant sees Covington driving. And I don't know if that was – I think that was just a straight-up freelance instinct move on him because it wouldn't have made any sense if that was some rule, and he just stayed.

He was like, it's late enough. The way he's driving, you know what, I'm here. And I was like, you know, maybe a special passer burns you on that, but he's not expecting Covington to do it. And there's just little instinctual stuff that makes way more sense now defensively where I felt like there were so many times last year where even if you were close in the game, I'm like, ah, they're going to fall apart.

They're going to fall apart again. And they were just kind of easy to pick apart. But I like this team. I do. I mean, you're 8- three now in the last 11. Number one, I think offensive ratings since January 3rd going into last night. Net rating was like fourth. And what I do like is like even Jaden who struggled and Vanderbilt,

who you have to watch the Timberwolves enough to appreciate what Vanderbilt brings because he's just kind of that in-between glue guy. I like that you have a lot of people even towns even nas like there's just a lot of players on the team that are comfortable with the balls and the ball in their hands not that you're going to run iso for eight different guys but it's a rotation that is now we know exactly what the rotation is which wasn't always the case and everybody seems comfortable with the basketball i'm not picking them necessarily in a first round upset, but it finally feels like it's heading in the right direction in Minnesota,

is what I watch. That's 100% true. We don't say Gerson Rosas' name very much, but he deserves a lot of credit for putting a lot of these guys and mainly bringing in Chris Finch.

I think that... I'm a little surprised that he didn in Chris Finch. I think that I'm a little surprised that he didn't bring Finch in faster, like right away. I understand why Gerson hired Ryan Saunders. When Tibbs was let go and Ryan was the interim, Ryan did a great job. And Ryan's a great kid who's worked super hard everything he's gotten he's gotten because he's worked for it obviously his dad had a part to play but I

talked to Taj Gibson and I talked to Luol Dang and I talked to Derek Rose during Ryan's interim part and and and they all said Ryan deserved a shot to be the head coach so I get why Gerson Gerson hired Ryan and then Towns was really close to him and Ryan deserved the shot. The COVID part of it was tough. And then the injuries that Ryan had to endure as the coach, he just couldn't sustain it. But bringing in Chris Finch, man, I'm thinking that he's one of my favorite coaches that I've ever been around and that I've seen in the league, the way he communicates, I think he's got a lot of sustainability in his ability to hang. And it took him a long time to get here. Like when you hear his story, Ryan, like, you know, playing over in England and then becoming a head coach right away.

He actually went and was a G League coach for the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. Talks about how that's the most important coaching experience he had. Was an assistant and moved around, you know, him and Nick Nurse are like this. He's so close to all these different guys. And you talk the game with them and you just realize, well, we got somebody really special. But then, you know, the stuff that Gerson did to bring in, you know, to see the value in a Jared Vanderbilt. I mean, like, think about what Vanderbilt was in Denver. He never really played in Kentucky. He only played a handful of games in college. He was a McDonald's All-American, so it wasn't like he was an unknown.

You know, Gerson brought in Pat Beverly. Gerson was the one who picked up Nas Reed as an undrafted rookie, brought him in out of LSU. He's the one that drafted Jalen Noel in the second round. So we haven't given Gerson enough, enough credit for the things that he's done. Right. I think.

And, and there's been a lot to like about this roster. And I think you're right. It's been Finch now sort of unlocking all the talents and seeing the value in guys that that's the key to coaching, right. Is to, is to get value in them

and then nurture it and grow it and it's been so fun to watch it really is and i'm telling like the ant part of it too is just a reminder of the fourth quarter like it was just a moment i watched the fourth quarter again this morning because i want to be locked in for the interview and i just i'm just sitting there going this is this is it feels like look town's talent russell talent even go back to wiggins thing, but with Edwards, man, this might be another level. I want to go back in time to high school, Jim Peterson. How many state titles did you have?

We didn't win any. You didn't win any? You get to the finals? We went to the state tournament all three years. We lost in the final. I lost in the final okay sophomore year and then we took um fourth place and third place like i just it's one of the biggest things i regret about not winning a state title um the only championships i've won ryan is when i was an assistant coach

for the minnesota links i got to go to the white house three times and shake president obama's hand so i went it took me getting to be an nba assistant coach and coaching maya more for me to uh for me to win a championship maya is one of the most impressive people i've ever spent time with she used to come to espn every now and then to do you know some sort of thing and if you just got like i remember being in the cafeteria talking to her about basketball and stuff. And she was like serious. And she was, but she was cool, but she was also like no bullshit either. You know, like, and it was like, man, I was like, she is, she is an athlete. She's killer. Absolutely. What, what is, um, what, how do you describe like the difference between being a WNBA coach and, and having a life in the NBA again, again, beyond beyond the obvious, what are some of the things

that jumped out to you? Like, oh, you know what? This is what's different or maybe even surprising. These women, they play year round. So they make their name in the WNBA. So Maya Moore, she's at UConn, obviously a big name. She gets drafted number one by the Minnesota Lynx. Khan, obviously big name. She gets drafted number one by the Minnesota Lynx. We win a championship her first year. She comes in 2011, we win a championship. And so now she's a superstar. And so all these teams want her. So then now you're going to go over to Europe. So you make 120, 30 grand in the WNBA, But then you go over to Russia and China and, and the French league is good. Israel's good. The, the Czech Republic, like Turkey, they would be paying these,

the superstars like Sylvia Fowles and Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird and, and Maya Moore and Simone Augustus. Like, like they're paying those gals, like Taurasi's making a million dollars over in the russian pro league so they make their name the wmba they've got to play all summer long for 120 000 but then they go make a million over there and so then they play year round and so i mean i've just never seen anything like it i coached in the wmba for eight years and i would see these players and we would play until october to the finals right we went to the finals five times. And so we're playing all the way to October and they literally finish playing in the finals and get on a plane to go to Russia or China or the Czech Republic

to start their European league. And then they play all winter long. And then when spring comes, they've got to come back and do it again. And they just do this whole cycle. I've just, I have so much respect for women players and what they've done in the WNBA. You have no idea how committed they are and how great they are. So when you see them up close, man, it's something else, how talented these players were. And I was lucky to be around. I mean, we probably are going to have four Hall of Fame players,

Lindsay Whalen, Simone Augustus, Maya Moore, Sylvia Fowles, Rebecca Brunson should be. But Cheryl Reeve is going to be on the Hall of Fame too. She's going to be the USA basketball coach now. It's one of the greatest groups of people I've ever been around to see it up close. And I can't imagine NBA players playing year-round. The toughness that these women show is, is pretty incredible.

Year round. We're lucky to get a year. We're lucky to get a season at this point, which is, which is another topic. All right. So let's go back to you. So high school, big recruit, 6'10", all the stats, you commit to Duke. And then what happened? Man, I was, I was, you know, I was obviously a big Gopher fan growing up.

I was McHale. Michael Thompson. I wore number 43 in the NBA because of Michael Thompson. So Michael was my guy. Still is. He's like a big brother to me. And Kevin McHale, huge fan. Flip Saunders.

But when I saw in 78, when I was a sophomore, Duke played Kentucky in the NCAA finals. Remember Jack Givens went off in the game and it was Mike Jeminski, Jim Spanarkle and Gene Banks. And for some reason, I just kind of fell in love with Duke University. I don't know why I did, but I just did. And then I when I was being recruited, I my mom wanted me to go to Iowa to play for Lute Olsen because she, like, he was dreamy to her. Like, she really fell in love with Lute because Lute had the hair, you know, it was great. Lute was awesome. My dad wanted me to stay home.

And then I was recruited by Lefty Drizelle at Maryland. And I could have been a Terrapin. I was recruited by Larry Brown at UCLA. I could have really a Terrapin. I was recruited by Larry Brown at UCLA. I could have really gone anywhere I wanted. But for some reason, I just fell in love with Duke. And so Bill Foster was the one who recruited me to go to Duke University. So I fell in love with Bill Foster. And Mike Jeminski and Kenny Denard showed me around when I was on my visit.

And I actually took two visits. I went back again to visit a second time. And the spring quarter of my senior year in high school, Bill Foster leaves and goes to South Carolina. And this guy named Krzyzewski comes in. I had no idea who he was. Well, the only thing I knew was that he was a Bobby Knight disciple from West Point. That's the only thing I knew about coach K. And so, um, he decides I'm leaving for the McDonald's all American game the next morning. Um, this is in April or whatever, and the game's in Oakland. So I'm leaving the next morning with my high school basketball coach, and we're going

to fly to Oakland, but I meet coach K at a place called the Thunderbird Hotel. It's where the Mall of America is now. But the Thunderbird Hotel is gone. I drive by myself to the Thunderbird Hotel and go up to Coach K's room at the Thunderbird Hotel. Can you imagine that happening today? I mean, can you imagine a kid going by himself to go meet a college basketball coach without a parent even? And so I broke up with Coach K at the Thunderbird Hotel. I told him I committed to Duke. I wanted to play for Duke.

I signed a letter of intent. And I had to tell Coach K no. And it's probably one of the only regrets I have in basketball. Things worked out okay for me. But I always kind of wondered what would happen had i gone to duke that's crazy that's uh and just to be like hey hold on before i make the flight i gotta tell this this new guy from west point that i'm not going i'm not going down literally like it literally had to be one of the first things coach k did when he got to duke was come and try to keep the recruits that they had. And so, I don't know.

You know what the funny thing is? I've never seen him again to be able to talk about. It was a long time ago. That's how long Coach K's been at Duke, by the way, since 1980 when I was in high school. That's crazy. I know. I bet he remembers. I bet he remembers because it was one of the first things he had to do.

He's like, we just lost that 6'10 kid to Minnesota. All right. You end up with the the rockets for a bunch of years you're on that 86 rockets team that beats the lakers that nobody thinks is going to beat the lakers then and you know it's twin towers you were called the ivory tower uh what's your best what's your best 86 finals story from that celticsup? You know, the thing about it is that back in those days, there wasn't the camaraderie that there is now. And so there was a lot of disdain. I mean, there was like, if you weren't wearing our colors, we didn't like you.

So there was none of this like fraternizing going on. But I knew Mikael. So we would chat a little bit before the games. But, you know, Danny Ainge was like a big-time competitor you know like these those games were competitive and Mikhail and I got into some dust-ups during because it's kind of like big brother little brother you know kind of thing so we would get us some dust-ups during the season during the regular season so now when we get to the finals I had had all this this history with all of them. And my rookie year, one of the first exhibition games I played in the NBA was against the Celtics up in Worcester, Mass. Like, it was we played up in Worcester.

And I'm in the game. You know, Ralph Sampson, Akeem Olajuwon, of course, are on the team. And we're playing up in Worcester. And I get in the game and Cedric Maxwell and Danny Ainge are at the end of the bench. And Maxwell, Max goes, Peterson, who's Peterson? Like somebody give me a program. Like he's literally saying that to me as I'm trying to guard somebody on the court. I forget who I was trying to guard. But at Max and Ainge, these guys are giving me a hard time.

And so it was pretty funny. And Max and I are really good friends because we played together in Houston. And so I see Max all the time now at Celtics games. We crack up all the time. Max is hilarious. But so now, and this is only a year later. We make the finals, my second year in the NBA. When Elijah and I came in in 84, we made the playoffs in year one. We lost to Utah. But then we go to the finals in the second year. It's Samson's third year. It's Rodney McRae's third year. We're playing in the finals and it's heated.

of me trying to block Danny Ainge's shot, but I'm just literally clubbing him in the face. Like, it's just like, I'm just like totally like clubbing him in the face. And I knock him to the ground and he grabs up and we start, we almost got into a little dust-up fight in that. And so he goes behind the stanchion. You know how McHale would always grab the towel

that's behind the stanchion and always wipe his face? Well, Ainge went to go do that. And I wanted to go wipe my hands off, so I was going to grab the towel from Danny after he used it and he took it he threw it on the floor and then I grabbed the towel and he grabbed it out of my hands and so then I grabbed it back from him and then he grabbed it back from me and then he threw it at me and I threw it at him and Earl Strom comes in and he goes hey guys guys guys guys he goes come on man he goes in a hundred years, one's going to remember any of this. So come on, let's go. And so it was like this whole, literally Danny Ainge and I are throwing a towel back and forth

at each other during an NBA finals game. It was, it was hilarious. That just warmed Ainge up for when it was going to happen to him as a coach, right? Yeah. When Robert already wrapped one around his face. that was that was always that was weird because you could see how heated age was like i can't believe a player just did this to me but now i kind of have to just sit here and and take it and show as if i'm composed even though i don't want to be composed right now um do you got any barkley stuff how how brutal was it did you ever get stuck guarding barkley or were they like, no, we're not going to do that to you? He was a power forward. I was a power

forward. He was, for me, when people ask me who the hardest people I ever had to guard was, I always say it was Charles Barkley. Because before the three-point shot became what it is, Charles could shoot it.

So if you had to get out there and guard him, if you didn't take it away, he would shoot the three in your face or he would shoot the long two anyway. If you pressed up on him, he was going to drive by you. If you didn't, he would shoot it. In the post, he was so big and strong, you couldn't guard him in the post. He had such a low center of gravity. So for me charles barkley was the hardest guy to guard then the other one that i always say is tom chambers like people forget about what a great player tom chambers is he he should be or talk he should be in the hall of fame in my book man that guy scored a lot of points and he was super talented but chambers was the same way like if you couldn't if you didn't get

out there and guard him he would shoot three if you pressed up on him he could drive by you and then oh by the way he could elevate and dunk it on your head so um you know i i didn't mind guarding um carl malone i didn't mind guarding kevin mckale for some reason those matchups didn't bother me it was those guys that could that could shoot from the perimeter put it on the deck and drive are the ones that bothered me yeah the early i mean it's the deck and drive are the ones that bothered me. Yeah, the early, I mean, it's weird to think of Barkley as a stretch four, but Chambers kind of was. For sure. If you think about stretch four, because Barkley just felt like there was more to it than just say stretch four.

But Chambers, you're right. I mean, look, Chambers was, Pete Chambers was insane, but he was stuck back then at a time where we just weren't watching it enough you know what i mean because it goes back it goes back to some of those phoenix years where you know they just weren't on the radar as much uh especially the way television worked speaking of i just i hope you have a moment as we finish up here just to think like hey you're from minnesota you're born there high school end up a a gopher. You get drafted in the NBA, but you join this franchise again in 1998 as a broadcaster. You've done the TV thing for 20 years, the Lynx Championships. I'm sure you've had this moment before. People close to you tell

you this, but to have that kind of connection to one area geographically and to have the accomplishments that you've had and still be a part of it, I hope you realize how cool that must be because most people don't get that chance. So I'm happy for you, man. I feel really blessed. And, you know, Glenn Taylor has been really good to me in this organization. Ethan Kasson, the president of the team. There's been a lot of people that have helped me about my relationship with Fox Sports North.

And, you know, just being an analyst in this league, it's such a brotherhood. You know, there's so many great analysts in this league, and it's just so fun to be a part of it, and I feel really blessed, Ryan. And I really appreciate you having me on your show. I've admired your work for a long time, and you've hit me up a few times and asked me to be a part of your show, so I'm really grateful to be here. All right, well, hey, enjoy the rest of the season, and hopefully we're talking playoffs, all right?

I love it. let's do it you want details bye i drive a ferrari 355 cabriolet what's up i have a ridiculous house in the south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Life advice. RR at gmail.com.

This one is serious. This is serious. I love this one. So we're just going to get to it. I don't want to waste any time. All right. Everybody ready? Yeah.

Kyle Sepia tone love today. What kind of filter we got? I to get to it. I don't want to waste any time. All right. Everybody ready? Yeah. Kyle Sepiatone, love today. What kind of filter we got? I had the email up. So what are you... Talk to me, Kyle. What are you kind of dusky right now? What's going on with this filter? No, I've just been watching 1883. I'm into it. So here we are. All right. Some of the women out there on Instagram

posted some of these filters. You're just making your skin look super old, right? Like it just, this doesn't look good. Just old, hey, old skin. All right, here we go. All right, back to the email because this is serious. This is serious. All right, here we go.

62240, recently taken a CrossFit. So my most recent benchmark is a 285 clean and jerk. Avid basketball fan, frequently play pickup. This is relevant to my situation, as you'll see in a minute. Okay, all right. Squat 480, bench 350. All right, we're doing it with a serious guy here. Okay, he said he's changing some details so that we can read it full through.

Thank you for doing that ahead of time. Unabridged. Nice. Right, right. Here we go. For some background, I'm a married guy, mid-30s, no kids. I have one sister who's about eight years younger than me. My wife and I live in Illinois, and my sister and

mother live on the East Coast. About three years ago, my sister, let's start calling her Charlotte, started dating this guy, Andrew. I assume he changed these, right? Yeah. If he said he did, then he did. And if not, yeah, we're good. They're in parentheses. All right. I know. I'm just double checking. Sometimes I'll change the change thing, and I didn't hear because it comes up too often.

All right. So his sister Charlotte started dating this guy, Andrew, and they are now engaged. He seems nice enough and is a reasonably successful guy. Works in insurance, dabbles in real estate as well. He's five years younger than me. Went to a good school, and I was surprised to learn he played D1 hoops. I won't say the school, but it's a notable program with some lower-seeded NCAA tournaments in the last 10 years. Okay.

Like any other sports nerd, I went and looked it up. See what I could find of his stats. And he was pretty decent. Played decent minutes, though he was not a consistent starter. Being they live on the East Coast and we're here in the Midwest, my wife and I obviously haven't spent a time with them, especially with the pandemic. We decided this year to have them out for the holidays and they stayed at our

place for five nights over Christmas while I was excited to talk sports with my sister's fiance. I mean, can you imagine how fired up the emailer is that this guy, right? So, um, so while I was excited to talk sports with my sister's fiance,

the situation got weird quickly. God, I love this fucking email so much. One night at dinner, I was asking Andrew about playing college ball, and he was a bit evasive about answering basic questions. I had a million curiosities about travel for college athletes, balancing school and play, and wanting to know all about playing the big dance. I'm going to lose it.

Sorry. Like any normal sports fan has played a little bit i played some high oh no our guy played high school in some juco so look if you're playing junior college basketball like you're still ahead of like 98 99 of everybody at some fucking pickup game all right so like you the emailer here like you know you you're probably pretty good you played a little right. I was excited to talk to an actual athlete or former athlete. At the time, I thought he probably gets these questions from people all the time when they find out where he went to school and that he played basketball. My wife agreed with me that evening when we spoke about it that I might have just come across as a

little overzealous, when in my mind, I was just generally curious about the guy. Fast forward a couple of days. I get up in the morning to go to the gym to meet up with a friend of mine and play some pickup. There's usually a good-sized group of guys. I can't read this email. I mean, I'm just trying to guess where this is possibly going. I have no idea. Oh, because I knew when I read it the first time.

I knew exactly where it was going, and I just love it so much because it happened to me too by the way all right so here we go fast forward a couple days i get up in the morning uh usually a good-sized group of guys over there holiday week so we figured it was a good time to go i casually asked andrew if he wants to tag along and play some pickup he objected at first saying he didn't have his gear with him but seeing as he wears basketball shoes daily anyway i offered him some of my spare clothes to play in and assured him these games are going to be very low key compared to wherever he plays

back home um charlotte my wife both encouraged him and ultimately he agreed to come along cornered him into going i haven't laughed this hard in such a long time and it's not that funny i don't know why i can't You cornered him into going. I haven't laughed this hard in such a long time, and it's not that funny. I don't know why I can't contain myself here. I need to tighten it up. After about 15 minutes at the gym,

I came to the realization there's no fucking way this guy played college basketball. He had no feel for the game. He could not execute a pick and roll in either capacity. After a couple really ugly possessions of bringing the ball up, he suggested someone else do it. Then he kind of stayed out of the way as much as possible. He passed out of open looks.

He got absolutely bodied at the side. Defensively, he was a turnstile. We have had a couple D1 guys in a former cup of coffee pros come through the gym before, and they're absolutely dominant. Yeah, I would think so. This is a suburban gym. there's usually at least one dude playing in feelers the level of play is not impressive but it's decent suffice to say i was absolutely embarrassed by what went down can you imagine what was going on in this guy's head the

fiance's head on the drive to this pickup game can you imagine the internal fucking carousel of thoughts it's like the guy going to the bills game it's like oh no yeah but this is way worse because you've told everybody you played d1 at a decent school that made a tournament run your stats are there and perhaps all right so all right let's get to the full conundrum here so i'm almost certainly okay wait a minute um suffice to say i was absolutely embarrassed by what went down so we awkwardly drive home without a lot of talking and the two of them left a day or so later we never talked about it so naturally i had to dig into this guy's college career a bit more what i found out is that another guy with the same name went to the same school around the same time i found a team photo and the dude in the photo

not the same dude so i'm almost certain now that andrew is pathologically lying to everyone he knows and saying that he played college basketball because if they do a cursory google search it appears to be true the question this of course raises other than why the fuck would you do that is what else is he lying about? I brought it up to my mom. Unfortunately, dad is no longer with us. Sorry. She seems to think it's not that big of a deal and has asked me to just let it go and not tell my sister. My wife thinks it's fucked up, but I don't think she sees the lie on being the same level as I do. So let me rephrase that. My wife thinks it's fucked up, but I don't think she sees the lie on being the same level as I do. So let me rephrase that. My wife thinks it's fucked up, but I don't think she sees it, sees the lies the same level that I do. I try to explain this like saying you were a guitar player in some band with two hits 20 years ago, but she doesn't see it the same way. I actually think it's still way worse than that. I don't know.

She also thinks I should lay out and not mess with my sister's relationship. So what do you guys think? Do I need to tell my sister sister should I confront the guy and tell him he needs to tell her or I will or do I just chalk this up as harmless and let it go it seems like a pretty erroneous red flag that someone would live their lives is such a huge lies part of it but my social circle uh doesn't seem to view it that way likely because they're not huge sports fans you hoping you guys have a similar mindset to mine it can provide some insight well obviously at first i was like well what if he listens to the podcast but clearly this guy probably isn't that into hoops other than lying about it so maybe he doesn't listen to this podcast and doesn't know um i think it's a huge problem i think i think it says a lot about a

person um there it happened to me we we kind of like there was a guy sort of staying with us not really staying with us. He said he played college basketball, was also going to play college football. He was supposed to play college football at a Power Five. And then he said he played at this other school that actually made tournament runs. It's a really good basketball school. And he wasn't big.

He was smaller than I was. And I was, I don't know, 26, 27, something like that. So I was kind of like, wow, God, this guy must just be like one of those absolutely Jerry McNamara type of guys, right? Just absolutely lights it up, whatever. Small white guy, just can't miss, tough as nails. I was like, it still doesn't make any sense. So I called the school. I just called the school. Me and my buddy, I think we're sitting around and we were just like, let's just fucking call and see if this guy's lying. And I called the school and I was like, hey, do you know this name?

And the guy's like, never heard of him. And I was like, is there a chance maybe he got there before you or whatever? He's like, hey, dude, I've traveled with the team for 13 years. I have no idea who it is you're talking about. And I was like, okay. And then I was like, hey, do you want to play one on one? And the other, my other roommate was like, are you going to play him? I was like, yeah, I want to play him.

I want to see what happens. And he was like, how serious are you going to take it? I was like, yeah, I want to play him. I want to see what happens. And he was like, how serious are you going to take it? I was like, I'm going to take it the most serious of any things ever taken. And he was like, all right. He goes, I'm not going to watch because if it's bad, it's going to be so bad. And you're going to be awful to deal with in that game. And I was like, all right, whatever. And I killed him.

I mean, killed him. It was, it was awful. It was embarrassing. Yes, I took it way too seriously. But if he was any good, I mean, he's got to beat me. He's got to be, you know, he's going to make every shot. He's going to be, I can't stay in front of him. All that shit.

I think it was like 11 to 1 or something terrible. And then we came back in and the other roommates like, how'd it go? And I was like, oh, you know. And I was almost embarrassed for the kid, even though he was lying to us about the whole thing. And he lied about a million other things, too. He was going to open up for like Dave Matthews or something, some fucking concert. I mean, it was like he was, there was some there was some deep dive stuff. So

back to the email. The point is I would tell the guy, I would say, hey, straight up, look, I'm the brother here. I care about myself. It's very obvious you lied. So let's not fucking debate that at all. All right. Don't even let him. Well, no, no, you know, and I know you didn't play college basketball and I looked it up

and it's the same name, but it's a different guy. So that's a problem. Don Draper. It's a real problem. I think it's a major red flag. I think it actually kind of sets the foundation for what you're capable of and what kind of person you are. I don't mean that the guy's like going to be a horrible lover.

You know what I mean? what kind of person you are. I don't mean that the guy's like going to be a horrible lover. You know what I mean? Like, but it's just that you're willing to do that as an adult, close to 30 years old. And we can get into kind of the seeds that are planted for like how weird it can be when you do this stuff. It can be your own insecurity. It can be stuff that you went through when you were young. I don't know if you've heard this, but a lot of comedians will get up and talk about how they didn't get enough attention as kids. And they talk about therapy. It rarely happens with comedians, but a few have touched on the topic, right? So there are times where you can kind of, you can think like, I'll think about things

that I feel and I'll go, oh, that's because of this, this and that. You know what I mean? So yeah, we could be delicate about it, but fuck that. Because if it were my sister and you lied to me and the entire family and her that you were a different person and that it's not just basketball, it's that you were lying that you were a different person and that it's not just basketball it's that you were lying that you were a different person who knows that could be something that got him the job that could also be something that if it ever gets found out that turns out that you know the place would fire you they would fire you in a second unless you were absolutely killing it

in sales and they probably just promote you and say hey weird story that guy sucks um i think you have to say something but i would go to him first and be like, we need to settle this away and figure it out because it's never, I know who you are, emailer, without knowing you. Mentally, you are never going to let this rest, ever. You're just never going to get over it. So I would talk to him first so it leaves you the out of going behind your sister's back and potentially destroying her marriage before it even happens. Yeah, I think I just know how I would handle it. I'm always kind of like I'm team them. And like my sister likes girls.

She's a lesbian. So we always kind of like, hey, what do you think of her? What do you think of her? Like, you know, we'd always been like, I'm sure when you started, I was I had no where this was going so now i'm like oh okay i'm just saying we're like pals and that like we're we're actually really good friends but we're also like sort of like bros in that regard where it's just like oh what do you think and and but but so but i think people who uh are close to their siblings regardless of uh whether they like uh the opposite sex or whatever i think that they're they're probably also like what do you think but i just i just know for me i think i would have i don't i i wouldn't even have thought about

talking to the guy be like i think this guy's a fucking liar have you noticed any other red flags like i think that's what i would have said and i probably would have wished afterwards that maybe i did confront the guy but also by team them what you mean is team them like your team whoever you're closest with so in this case when you mean team them your team you mean is team them like your team, whoever you're closest with. So in this case, when you mean team them, your team, your sister. Yeah, exactly. Okay. All right. So I think this is a little different, though, because they're engaged.

I mean, it's a little more urgent, I would say. You know, my sister's got a doctorate. She's probably going to be the breadwinner. So you don't want to tie the knot before you check all the red flags. I think it would make it even a little more urgent. But the engagement might help you, though, because then you can be like, hey, dude, if you don't tell her before

the wedding, I'm going to tell her because this is unacceptable. I've got two younger sisters. If I ever found that out, I'd fucking lose my mind. So, because to Ron, your point, if he lied about this and he's been carrying you know he's been carrying this lie for however long it's been probably years now what else is he capable of doing i'm not saying like he's like gonna you know be like

a future serial killer but like he just that's just not a thing a good normal person does um so i think you're right you're right tell him hey you need to tell my sister or else like i'm going to spill the beans before the wedding because this isn't how we're living life. Because you're right. He's never going to get over this. I don't even think this guy can get over it, the emailer can get over it, even if he does tell her. He's probably never going to like the guy anyway. But at least maybe he can feel a little bit better about his sister's ability to make a decision there.

So I think that's what you got to do. But there's no way I'm letting this fucking slide. No way. There's also a chance to like, as we're going through this, like, are we the psychos? But I'm not even going to open that one up because we're right.

We're right in this. I'm not going to debate it. It's not normal behavior. It's not. It's not. Look, there's a transaction of a few years ago with somebody that I know and the guy was saying a couple different things.

And it was like, now we've we've kind of figured out more about it you know this is years ago and it all related back to like this one lie that like slowly unraveled and then it's like oh wait now all of the other stuff makes sense because in the beginning we thought it was this because the person was totally comfortable lying about this thing um i also really wish obviously this is impossible i would pay pay-per-view money to have had a dash cam in the car on the ride the run no the ride to the gym because think about that that'd be like you telling a bunch of people you just met that you're sick at an instrument and they're like come jam with us yeah and you plug in and you're kind of like the acoustic guitar hammering that g chord and then

laying out a little bit like just kind of look at each maybe a little thumb tap on the old acoustic to like a little rhythm and you're're just, you're not really playing. And you're just going, how long can I play this before everybody else is going? This guy doesn't actually know how to play the guitar. And he said he grew up with Big Head Todd. And it's like, no, none of this makes any fucking sense. And then you're right. Like the ride, I don't know what I want access to more.

The ride there, probably the ride home. Because after the ride home, maybe a couple of Gatorades going. But you know what's so funny is that I want to know what this guy's size was. Was he above six foot? I mean, he had to look like a basketball player, right? And then he also said that he was wearing basketball sneakers around. So you would think that he maybe is some kind of an athlete. I don't know.

He likes the culture, man. Yeah, maybe. But like if he was like six, six foot and like a little bit chubby, wouldn't you have some like reservations before then? Or would you be like, yeah, maybe just put on some pounds? I don't know. I want to know if you look the part of a basketball player. I'm one basketball player. I'm deferring to the emailer here that if the emailer is big as you know, these are serious numbers. This guy's a decent sized guy is obviously really strong too.

And he played a little Juco ball that this guy must have passed the eye test enough to even get to this point for, for the emailer to have believed the fiance story that I don't think he showed up looking like 40 yearyear-old version Seth Rogen. So what do we think? This guy probably lied on the first date as an in to be like, hey, I was a D1 Hoops player. And then that's just kind of where it grew from there. I don't know.

And then he could never tell her the truth. The unnecessary lie to bolster your life is just, it makes me sick. It's one thing to lie like if you're like in Cabo and you're meeting people and you're never going to see them again. It's another thing to lie on the first date and then get engaged to that person. Cabo, it's okay to lie. Yeah, I mean, you know, but yeah, I played D1 hoops and then you just, you all go your separate ways and then there you go. Yeah. Van Pelt told me back in the day those

guys used to say they were refs i was like is that even cool like oh did you where did you go home with that ref that guy was hot like yeah he's like big sky ref um i don't know i don't know he he told the store on the air so i i don't know how true it was. I remember one time I got accused of lying about being a baseball player because I was out with baseball players. I was like, I don't need to lie about it. First of all, I'd be exposed in two seconds.

What are you talking about? It was like, no, no, no. You said you were with these guys. I was like, yeah, I was there working out with them, but you made the assumption that I played. Thank you. All right. 6'5", 3'10". Best of all, I am liquid.

Like it. I have this buddy. Let's call him James. Found this girl on Tinder. They started texting. She's 19. My buddy's 26. The only social media she has is Instagram. She gets about 20 likes per picture and posts all seem to be from the same day. Dun dun dun.

I already know where this is. Yeah, I mean just one day she started up Instagram. Check me out. This is me with a ladle. 19 years old. What 19 year old girl only has Instagram or only has Instagram

and doesn't have other girls commenting, hyping her up? That I don't know. You guys are going to have to help me with that one. Myself and our friend group think he's getting catfished. They have planned a date three different times and she's canceled every time. Maybe she's busy. Maybe she's a writer. They've never talked on the phone and still have never met.

Wait, they've never talked on the phone? They were going to meet up for three dates? Yeah. Your friend's getting catfished. Yeah. That's it. He's in deni- yeah. He's in- yeah.

There's nothing. Do I read the rest of the email? Let's just read it. But there's nothing else. We've cracked the case. He's in denial and when we tell him to stop entertaining this catfish, he responds, quote, I'm single so it's someone to talk to. You know, he's someone who gets very invested very fast. I'm worried that with him still talking to her,

he's going to start catching feelings and be hurt when he finally comes to a sense that nothing can ever be between them. As one of his best friends, do I still try and tell him to stop or just let him get his heart crushed, which will crush me to watch happen? Shout out, Kyle. Make fun of him all the time. That's what I would do. All the time, make fun of him all the time that's what i would do all the time make fun of him he's gonna start sending this person money it's just happening it's gonna happen yeah somebody's car bill just got taken yeah make fun of him incessantly all the time somebody's gonna do transmission uh even if it makes you feel bad push through make fun of him okay so he's clearly getting catfished you've never talked to the person on the phone, all right?

I mean, forget FaceTime and the capabilities that we have. You've never actually talked. Cancel three times. Instagram posts all for the same day. I mean, I get flooded with those. There'll be like some breakout in the Emirates where all of a sudden it'd be like, hey, want a party fuck time DM?

And then, you know, it'll be like you look at the picture and it's like seven posts from the last hour they follow me um steve levy and i don't know mike trudell and you're like okay this seems to be a specific lane of verified sports people and then they'll have like no one follows them or it'll be like a fake number of followers or whatever i mean it happens all the time and the key is is always like you can always tell first of all the dm usually gives it away that doesn't really happen a lot like podcast bad translate yeah yeah right but podcast the podcast isn't doing that well that that's the kind of d DMs that dudes are getting.

But I think you've got to let him get his heart stomped here to learn a lesson because it's so obvious what's happening to him that, I don't know, Kyle, what do you think? No, I think you've got to just bother about it all the time. Don't make it your mission in life, but just make it a thing that you make fun of him for, think i mean this shit is everywhere how do you not know i'm getting it i play words with friends i get like catfish attempts on words with friends they play one word and then they're like hey how's it going and it's like marie one two seven nine three seven eight

nine she joined wait you're talking to Marie? I've been talking to seven versions of Marie. Yeah. Sometimes I actually do just be like, hey, what's going on? How's it? And then sometimes I won't answer and then they'll just keep, like they'll stop playing words,

but then you can't play another word until you can't say, you can't type another message until another word's played. So like sometimes I'll get like seven, eight moves out of them just to keep my game scores up um but they're everywhere how does this guy not know i think if you're gonna be that much of a a blind doofus then yeah like you're gonna be known in our friend group for the guy who's actively getting catfished until you stop it and that might seem cold that might seem whatever but

that's how i would handle this did i ever tell the story of how i invented catfishing you did this is the time stamp right here this is the life time stamp starts right now you invented catfishing i did uh high school um people are gonna think i'm a huge dick i'm really i'm really not um so basically me i forget why we did this like one of our buddies was just like kind of being annoying and we were dicking around we were like hey why don't we just create a bunch of fake myspace accounts and we so we created like probably six of us created like six different people that were all in a friend group and they were like from the town over from us and we all friend requested our buddy at the same time and

like i was a dude one of my guys guys, one of my friends was the chick. And like, there was a couple other girls, a couple other guys. And like, we would interact with each other on MySpace. Everybody was in everybody else's top eight. And we tried to arrange a meetup, but he didn't take the bait on it. So we were the first,

I think that was 2005 or 2004 probably. So I credit myself with the Venti catfish. No one had attempted prior to that, you believe? I don't know. The show didn't come out yet nobody was talking about it we just we it's not like we were we weren't like inspired by you know neve and that guy i don't even know if i knew who that was yet so we were just like screw let's create some fake uh myspace profiles and see what happens and it didn't work out but the seeds were planted

we had neve on the radio show. That didn't go great. I remember that. Yeah. Was that the guy? There was. That's the guy. Yeah. He was like the. Yeah. Hugs the people that are getting catfished. Yeah.

I remember Machine Gun Kelly was on an episode of Catfish and he was like walking down the street yelling at the person. And like, yo, you just can't do that. That was early. That was early. That was early Machine Gun Kelly. So you. So what happened to your friend when he found out, Saruti? He was pretty pissed. But we were all like, I think we were all mostly on the football team.

We were playing. A couple of them weren't. But, you know, mostly in the same friend group. And we were just kind of bored. And we were like, he did something. I forget. It was like that kind of pissed us off. Like, let's get him back.

Let's do this. And one of us came up with the idea of doing that. That was like the height of My us off. I'm like, let's get him back. Let's do this. And one of us came up with the idea of doing that. That was like the height of MySpace. You guys created like six email accounts and did the whole thing, huh? Yep. My name was Darren Sharper. I remember I made a guy named Darren Sharper. Hardest hitting safety in the league.

Yeah, I think that's probably why I did it. Not so great now. But yeah, and he was from Cheshire. Shouts out to Cheshire, Connecticut. And like he was in for a while like i remember he friended her i think there was a message or two that was exchanged but when the meetup thing kind of was pushed when she when our fake account tried to you know force the meetup i think he snipped it out and was like fuck you guys how do you force how do you start

start that like a friendly a friendly suggestion to meet up from the guys from the next town over so i think we had the girl first, the fake girl account, friended him and then started talking to him about how he, how she knew one of his friends. And then we all friended him together and we're friends with her. So it was like, Oh, maybe his,

maybe her friend group is like friending, you know, our friend Greg, cause we're interested in, you know, she's interested. Do you think your friends moved in too fast? Do you think that you're,

were you messed up? I mean, we definitely didn't like the whole group plan for it. We thought like, we can't just like the whole group land for it. We thought like we can't just have one person. So we'll have multiple people and we'll try to attack her from those angles

and make her profile seem legit. And like, you know, we had we had different pictures and whatnot. And, you know, it wasn't all pictures from the same day, like our friend here. So we try to make it seem legit.

But, you know, I don't know. We were we were amateurs. I can't believe you just admitted. We're young. Yeah, yeah. 16. Wow. Man. Myspace. Pour one out.

Yep. Thanks to Kyle and Steve. We'll be back on Friday. Please subscribe to the Ryan Russo Podcast, Ringer, and Spotify. you