The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Kyrie Recruiting LeBron and Jaylen, Harden and Dame’s Futures With Shams Charania. Plus the NIL Wild West in CFB With Bruce Feldman.

Episode Date: June 6, 2023

Russillo is joined by NBA insider Shams Charania to discuss the report of Kyrie Irving reaching out to LeBron James to gauge his interest in joining the Mavericks, James Harden’s choice between the Rockets and the 76ers, Jaylen Brown’s next contract, Adam Silver's ambiguous comments about Ja Morant, the future of Damian Lillard in Portland, and more (0:41). Then Ryen talks with The Athletic’s Bruce Feldman about NIL’s impact on college football, tampering, whether it can be regulated, and more (24:19). Then Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (49:27). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Shams Charania and Bruce Feldman Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

mega info pod for you the latest on free agency and kairi and lebron and dallas uh with the nba insider shamshirania and we're going to talk about the transfer portal and the nil with bruce feldman awesome piece about all the tampering that's going on and what percentage of these NIL deals actually come through on the promised number to the athlete. That life advice, Kyle, is already back east getting ready for wedding season, and we'll update his look. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats.

Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. He's the co-host of FanDuel TV's Run It Back, and he is the senior lead NBA insider. Everybody knows his work. It's Sham Sharania.

And it's good to do this, man. We've never done this, so I'm fired up. I'm excited to do it. It was a good senior in Chicago when we were back there covering the combine. So yeah debut episode okay so we got to start with the kairi stuff um you reported yesterday that he'd reach out to lebron maybe not about uh the lakers destination but if he would potentially go back to dallas uh it would be really hard all the moving parts so you know this league i like to remind myself all the time when I see something like that can't work.

I'm like, all right, well, there's a very few things that are impossible. But what's the deal with this story and Kyrie's motivation? Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think you look at it from a broader perspective. And I look at it as this is a guy, Kyrie Irving, that's going into unrestricted free agency coming up here in July 1. He's going to be a free agent. I think what this is showing that clearly he's out there putting his recruiting cap on. I think he's trying to go get talent to come to Dallas potentially.

And I think him seeking that out with LeBron James and the last two years, the entire conversation has been about Kyrie Irving going to the Lakers, teaming up with LeBron, Anthony Davis in LA. But now you kind of flip that script. And I think what this shows is I think Kyrie Irving, before he makes his decision, I think to go back to Dallas and as he's going through this decision over the next month plus, and as it goes into June 30th and July 1, when free agents can sign contracts or agree to contracts, I think him and Luka Doncic both want this Mavericks team to get better.

And to me, LeBron James obviously represents the epitome of that. If you can get a guy like that, that's the top. That's a white whale. That's the guy that, I mean, if you're really trying to go get a guy that after the season made some comments that at least opened the door toward his playing future being in question. But yeah, he's reached out to LeBron from what I'm told. He's made contact with him.

They've had a back and forth now for a couple years. Now, do I think it's unlikely LeBron James goes to Dallas? I do. I think he's happy in LA. I think he's happy being there, being a Laker, and his son, Bronny James going to usc next year so there's a lot of reasons why staying in la makes the most sense for lebron james but i'm curious going into this office and how do the lakers handle it how do they handle

potentially lessening his workload going into year 21 age 39 do they do they try to go get a guy like kairi irving fred van bleet? Those are two top point guards in the open market. How does this impact Kyrie Irving's free agency? Can that Mavericks team get better? Yeah, if we start with the James part of it, he did the two-year extension last year. That's $97 million. So if you look at some of the mechanisms,

he could get real vocal about it and say, you need to do this. But then when you look at the remaining package around what would be Kyrie and Luka there's not like I like Josh Green I don't know that I like him that much um and I I think you brought up a really good point too is you know who knows how the LA fan base would treat it but I think LeBron likes to historically be able to go back and say I never forced forced my way out. I left as a free agent. I don't think this is the city with all of his interests that they've done a really good job of cultivating all this stuff off the court. I don't think it's the kind of city where you want to piss it off, even though maybe they would get over it or something like that. something like that. So there doesn't seem to be a lot of reason unless you thought that Dallas with Luca Kyrie,

and then trying to salvage whatever they could with the new CBA moving forward for the pieces around them, which would be really, really challenging because I don't even think that guarantees you some top spot in the West with all of it. So that part of it for the granted, it's, it's a really interesting story,

but the motivation behind that for LeBron, like a lot would have to change and he'd have to get to a point that I think he's very proud that he hasn't gotten to in the past by forcing his way out the ways other guys have. I do think that's actually important to him. Yeah, and I think there are a couple here, mindsets that are similar,

right? Like Kyrie Irving, clearly, there's a desire, and I think Mavericks and Mark Cuban, Nico Harris, and they all share that. They want to improve that team. They don't have many mechanisms to do it because of the salary cap and second apron. So they're going to be really moving on a tight rope.

And the Lakers, similarly, they get to the Western Conference Finals. Rob Palenka, that front office, I thought they made some shrewd moves at the deadline. Going and getting Rui Hachimura, D'Angelo Russell, Malik Beasley, Jared Vanderbilt. They got players. They got bodies in there that can help them win.

But now how do you take that next step? I think LeBron James even said it. He's at a stage of his career where he's playing for a championship. He's playing for NBA finals runs. And the Western Conference Finals, I think, was amazing for him and this organization. But I think how can you take that next step? And D'Angelo Russell getting benched in that game four, that's probably

the easiest position you can look at. Maybe back up big as well. Mo Bamba didn't play down the stretch. So the Lakers have some question marks. How do they improve the team? Do you run it back? Because there is also a thought out there that D'Angelo Russell, bringing him back might be your best bet.

So both teams are going to have to walk a tightrope and get creative to make their teams better. Okay, last thing on this piece, and because you've been on top of a lot of the Kyrie stuff, and if you go back to even the bubble, Durant wasn't healthy. It didn't seem like he wanted to play. Some of the conversation got really weird about him even suggesting that he would want to start his own league which i'd heard about from like a bunch of different people obviously there was a little little tougher to pull that off um but then you know look i could say well he's actually worried about his money more now than maybe he would like you think but at the same time like he lost a lot of money by not getting vaccinated so maybe it's not always

that but then i remember specifically last summer there seemed to be some momentum and you were talking about whether or not he could opt out and take the mid-level to end up in LA. And I thought that felt a little bit like leverage for the Nets. And then ultimately it was like, you know what, I actually don't want to lose $30 million this year. I'm going to take my player option and I'll figure this out. So I think he is capable of a lot of different things, but I, I always wonder how much of this is like realistic with him and that he's probably looking at making up some of the money he did lose through all the COVID stuff where it's like, all right, I can say I want all these things. And I'm sure he, you know, he and LeBron have been flirting with each other now for a couple of years.

It just still feels like Dallas is the only thing that makes sense. And that may be part of this is leverage and hoping he gets the full four years. Because that's usually what... Normally, that's what I would always default to with every player. I'd be like, this is what he's doing. He just wants to make sure he's going to get... Well, I don't know how much leverage he needs, though, right? I think Dallas is in a position now where they gave up two starters during Smith.

Spencer didn't win. They gave up a first-round pick. They gave up multiple second-round picks. So, I think the, and if, and if Kyrie somehow walks, like let's say he was, he does, you know, let's say, you know, he went to the Lakers on the taxpayer mid-level exception, or he went to whatever team for the mid-level exception and took a pay cut, took like a $30 million, $25 million pay cut.

I mean, Dallas would be in a position where they have no way to get that salary slot. They really don't have a way to improve their team. And that's what puts them in a position where they have to really retain Kyrie Irving. And I think that everything I've heard in the last several weeks, ever since they made the trade for Kyrie Irving, their number one priority, they understand it from a salary perspective, from a team building perspective, is bringing back Kyrie

Irving. Now, we'll see over the next month or so, when the agency starts, what numbers do they look at? It's going to be max, what is it going to look like, how many years, player option, all that. And I think that's stuff that they got to sort through. But I think it seems the first priority is how can we make this team better?

You know, the Mavericks, how can they actually put those in a position to where, yes, when, if, if Kyrie Irving resigns, this is a team that, that that's going to have talent around them. And I think that's the big question. Okay. This is a perfect segue then in a hardened because under normal circumstances, I could never imagine a guy who's this close to contending no matter what you think of Philly. It's certainly a better contention

situation than what Houston would be. The oddities with the over 38 rule, that extra year that normally Philly would have in its back pocket as leverage, I would go, oh, the player's just going to take the extra year because the over 38 basically works out to be the same contract. We don't need to break all that stuff down. What do you think he actually wants to do? So Ryan, I don't think he knows as far as what I know about his mindset. I don't think he totally is there. I mean, we're less than a month out from pre-agency starting. I really think that he's torn with the prospect of staying in Philadelphia or moving on to Houston potentially and returning back to his home. And that's where his roots are. His family is there. Of course, they've got upwards of 60. They could make even more money

available, close to 70 million in cash. So they're going to have a ton of money. And I think this is a team in Houston where I do believe they're going to be aggressive in the marketplace, potentially two-year deals out there, balloon type deals. I've heard them, whether it's Dylan Brooks, Brooke Lopez, obviously James Harden, they're going to be a team that's going to be trying to beef up that roster. Now, whether that's anywhere from three to five veteran players. But my sense right now is that James Harden is someone that's torn. Like you said, Philadelphia makes the big trade firm, moves Ben Simmons, moves some draft assets, gets him. There's some familiarity there with him, with Daryl Morey.

For years in Houston, they make the trade firm. With Nick Nurse there, like he said in the press conference when he was introduced in Philly, James Harden wants to win. We want him back. We think we're a better team with James Harden. Of course they are. And how is that team going to be different

with Nick Nurse schematically, game plan wise? How does he adjust? Those are all conversations. I think Nick Nurse and James Harden and Daryl Morey are going to, I assume are going to have over the coming weeks as we get closer to pre-agency. Yeah, that one's tough because some days I'm like, man, he's just doing this

to make sure Philly pays him. He just needs the hint of Houston so that he can get the most out of Philly because it's still a little bit of a scary contract going into that last year of what Harden will end up making on that. And then when I left the combine, it was just weird. Everybody was saying the same thing. And it was so repetitive. It's like, oh, it's Houston, it's Houston, it's Houston. And I'd be like, well, what specifically tells you it's Houston? And it was never really that specific. It was just everybody I felt like was saying the same thing. And then you add nurse to it and I don't know, but I just, I think I've also watched Harden long enough to know, I don't care who the hell's coaching. I know what it's

going to look like at the end of a big game. Like, okay, cool. You've ran a different play. Did it end up back with Harden? And he's going to be unsure of himself again, like he was in game seven against the Celtics or a bunch of other games yeah i mean i think like like you said i think it's it's been kind of open-ended for a while now and and you know i hear probably the same stuff that sometimes you hear um but my sense again right now is that this is someone that is is going to be is torn i think it's going to be i think whichever way it goes i think it's going to be relatively close um and that's why as we get closer to July 1, June 30th, those conversations that he's going to have as the incumbent free agent with Nick Nurse, with Daryl Morey, what their vision is for him,

what their vision is for that team, what that offer ultimately is going to be versus comparing it to whatever Houston comes with on June 30th or July 1. Those are all very important factors. That's why it is a guy that you would assume, you would think sits down with both teams. Philadelphia is going to have a window earlier, potentially going in and scheduling meetings. So this is the situation now. We're going to see which way it lands.

Okay. How much are other teams around the league monitoring what happens with the Jalen Brown extension? Do other teams feel like this could definitely be somebody now that becomes more – we can all read the rumory stuff of monitoring the situation or whatever, but this one feels like there's a little bit more to there depending which way it goes with Boston. Yeah.

I mean, every team is going to be monitoring Jalen Brown. I mean, if you have cast rates, if you don't have cast rates, if you're a young team, you're an old team, every team is going to be monitoring a guy like Jalen Brown. I don't know how much it is Jalen versus how much it is all these teams that for sure want him. If you're looking at it from Boston's perspective, you have two guys in their mid-20s,

arguably two guys that are top 10 to 20 nba players in this league you know jaylen browns voted to the all nba second team jason tatum all nba first team um and that extension that supermax extension five years almost 300 million dollars a year from now i believe jason tatum is going to be up for a similar supermax as well. What does Boston do? If you don't offer that, do you ruffle feathers? Where does that leave you? With a guy like Jalen Brown, who last year I reported he was offered.

He was put on the table for Kevin Durant, along with Derek White, along with the draft pick. Brooklyn wanted more. They wanted Marcus Smart. They wanted additional stuff. And that's where talks never really picked up. Kevin Durant ends up going back to Brooklyn. So this is a guy that he's heard his name in trade rumors before. The Anthony Davis saga, his names were out there as well then, but Boston did not fully put him on the table back then. But I think this is something where you assume it's offered to an extent, because even if you a year from now

or two years from now feel like, okay, we got to break these guys or we want to go a different direction with this team. You want to have your guys under contract. And I think at that point, if it is offered, it's going to end up being Jalen Brown's decision. I think from a lot of perspectives optically,

it's do these guys want to play with each other? I mean, I can only go by what I've heard, what they've told me. I just sat down with Jalen a couple months ago, and his thing to me is like, I love playing with Jason Tatum. Like, I want him to succeed. Jason Tatum, I think similarly,

wants to play with Jalen Brown. He's been vocal about that as well. But again, winning and succeeding is different than actually saying you want to play with a guy. Were you surprised that Vogel ended up in Phoenix? I wasn't because when you look at what that organization seemed like they wanted, right? After you fire Monte Williams, you want a guy that's going to be able to connect with the players, a guy that's going to be able to collaborate at the front office with new ownership. And also, I think defense, being detail-oriented, schematically coming up with

game plans, I think those are all important factors. Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, those are two guys that I think just want to be coached and really have the right game plan on a night-to-night basis. So I think as they went through that finalist process, Nick Nurse, Frank Bogle, Doc Rivers, Jordy Fernandez, Kevin Young, I never got the sense if they were going to hire a first-time head coach. I always expected it, especially with this job, with Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, that it would be someone with championship pedigree. And all those coaches that ended up being, quote finalists. You know, Nick nurse, Doc Rivers, Frank Vogel,

all have a championship under their belt. And I think what Frank Vogel has going from an indie, he coached Paul George, Roy Hibbert, that group, two Eastern conference finals appearances, Lakers, Anthony Davis, LeBron James, they get to the finals. They have one of the best records in the league, one of the years, and then they lose the playoffs. I think this is a guy in Frank Vogel where they

really believe they'll have a chance and some championship pedigree. This Lillard story, I feel like I'm just kind of being like, hey, let's just talk about the stories we've been talking about here for a while. The Lillard one is strange because I'd always been told, man,

he just didn't want to go somewhere else to be second fiddle. He likes being the main guy in Portland. When you look at the numbers, and even as good as he was this year, I think the draft, they're in a weird spot

where I wonder how much the draft could influence any of this stuff. Do you think he ever gets to the point, Chomps, that he decides, you know what, now it is time for me to move on? Because it reminds me a little of the Garnett stuff like 15 years ago, where it had kind of gone on and kind of gone on. You'd heard that maybe he wants out, but he never wanted to be that guy. And I think that's actually a good thing that Lillard deserves credit for, is that if he's sniffing around, he doesn't want to do it the way that maybe some other players have done it.

But it just seems crazy that they're just going to run it all back and maybe take a guard with the third pick and not have another move up their sleeve. Yeah, I mean, I think there are crossroads in Portland. And as much as Dame, I think it's also Portland as well. They have Jeremy Grant as a free agent. I think they want to bring him back. You have the number three overall pick in the draft.

What do you do with that? Do you trade it? Do you keep it? And if you keep it and you have another, you have either Brandon Miller, Scoot Henderson, someone like that, do you feel like, does Dame feel like he can win and win big with those guys?

And if you can't, and if he feels like he can't, I think he's been vocal about it as much as anyone. Even in his exit press conferences, his postseason exit press conferences, I don't really want to play with young players anymore. I want to go have a chance to compete for a championship. And if we're not going to do that here, then I think we both have to look.

And I think he's been very upfront about that. I believe that's where it stands. That's why I think seeing how have to look. And I think he's been very upfront about that. I believe that's where it stands. That's why I think seeing how draft night plays out as we lead into the draft, what do they do with that number two overall pick, I think is going to be very important. And then how does that shape Dame Lillard's perspective going into July?

And it's not like he needs to do anything right now. He can wait. He can see how it goes and plays out. I think he's going to give Portland that luxury. But as an organization, I think Portland also is at a crossroads that they're going to have to decide what way are we going here. And I think Portland wants to compete, and I think they want to win. But when you look at it realistically, can you win

and can you compete at a high level with that roster? I just don't think they're good enough defensively, man. I think we have enough years of this where you look at it and go, like, Dame's terrific. Simons has come along great. Grant ended up being a much better player than I wanted to or that I thought he would be. I remember rooting against him. I think they moved on from the

Josh Hart thing because they knew they didn't want to pay him because he was going to opt out. But Nurkic is not healthy, and when he's healthy, he's terrible back there defensively. So I just, how many years do we have to keep watching the same group be this bad defensively, have the same small backcourt where, you know, I think as great as Lillard is, and because he's a favorite,

but he's not losing on the biggest stage, they're not even competing, that he avoids all the shit that you would normally get for being as bad as he is defensively. He's really bad defensively. I think I'd have a hard time. If I were running, I'd be like, I think it's time that we need to do something different. But it's also hard too when you're in a city where it's not a great destination for free agents. Nobody's ever going to ask to go to Portland. He can't bring anyone else to Portland. And when he's right he is one of the most fun players in the league too so i get the dilemma it's not an easy one um anyway yeah back to the draft thing uh i just kind of went

for a while there that happens in the pod so welcome in um yeah i think I remember your question. You know, obviously one is going to stick. I do think at two with Charlotte, I think that holds firm. I think from three, four, five, really three down I think is where it'll get interesting. You know, and what Portland does, the draft probably, like we'll see which way Charlotte goes. Do you go Scoot, Henderson? Do you go Brandon Miller there? I think there's a lot of momentum at times

from what I've been told since lottery night, since combine week for Brandon Miller at two. But if it's not Brandon Miller, then Scoot. And then whoever else falls at three, the decision is Portland. And they have to figure out, are they going to move the pick, keep the pick? There are also multiple teams, Utah, OKC, teams that have multiple

picks for years to come. What do you do with those firsts? I should have, if we're talking about Portland too, I should bring up Sharp and just the hope that it's like, wait, they might actually have something here which I'm totally open to, but I shouldn't run through the entire roster and go, but it's still a big ask for a second-year dude to kind of change the course of what to this point has been a disappointing group. The John Morant hint by Adam Silver was pretty interesting, and he said he didn't want to get further into it to take attention away from the finals,

unless he's being dramatic about it. But it seems like he's hitting at something massive. Bill and I talked about it on Sunday's pod where I feel like everybody's kind of accepted that if it's like half the season, that's okay. They'd know more than I do. I'm just a guy reading what I'm reading and hearing what you're hearing.

But what's your sense of what this jaw punishment is going to be and how that impacts the Grizzlies off season on top of everything else. Yeah. I mean, the league hasn't shared it with, with John rent to my, now I don't think they've shared it with the PA. You know,

if Adam knows what the suspension is, it's, it's like Adam knows it. Um, and you know, Adam silver, like, like you just spoke about,

I mean, he kind of laid it out there that, that, you know, we've uncovered what, we've uncovered a fair amount of information. Now, we'll see once the investigation comes out, like, did they uncover more stuff or did they just confirm that, yes, the gun, that was a real gun,

that the image was him? Because remember, there was that talk around the combine. Adam Silver came out and said, you know, the image was grainy, you know, like the video, was it for sure him? Are those the things that they uncovered or was there something more? I personally, when I saw those comments,

I saw everyone's reaction. I personally took from it, we're doing our jobs. We confirmed what we had to confirm. I don't know what more they got from it. I guess I'm going to find out, just like everyone else is, or hopefully I'll find out before. But I think, I'll just put it like this.

Memphis has been pretty much in the mindset of since this happened, they were bracing for a significant suspension for John Moran. Now, is that two times how much he got last time, which was eight games? Did they give him 16, 18? Did they give him 20? 20 to 25?

Also, school thought that 30 to 40 wouldn't be out of the realm, but the only person at the end of the day that knows this, Adam Silver, Joe Dumars, this is going to be Adam Silver. Just like the eight games, Adam Silver met with John Morant, came up with this decision.

I think relatively soon after the finals games, Adam Silver met with John Morant, came up with this decision. And I think relatively soon after the finals ends, I think we all will know exactly how long that suspension is. All right. Yeah, we'll find out, man. Enjoy the rest of the finals. Enjoy gearing up for the draft and free agency. And thanks

for doing this today, man. Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. Bruce Feldman, hanging out with us here for a bit from The Athletic, also Fox Sports. Excited always to catch up with him. Okay, so you did something

with Max Olson recently, a tampering confidential. You talked to different staffers around college football and how bad the tampering has gotten. Of course, the transfer portal restrictions being lessened over the years and now the NIL stuff. So let's just break it all down here because there was a lot of really good stuff in there.

How different is it right now with coaches trying to figure out who's going to stick around? I think the biggest thing, Ryan, is for roster management, which is such an issue for college coaches, because typically it's a developmental sport, and now they're all on their heels. And so as we got into this story, Max and I, as we started doing the reporting, we looked at it as, okay, a lot of schools are looking at the group of five schools and even FCS as kind of a farm system. Those players, maybe they were under-recruited, maybe they were underdeveloped.

Now they have actual college game film. We have players on our own roster that maybe didn't work out, maybe left early, whatever. And now we're plugging in, we're poaching those guys, maybe with the guise of, hey, you can come on a bigger stage

or get better NIL deals or real NIL deals, I guess it were. But what we found also is that it is happening also at the Power 5 level too. And everybody is susceptible to this. And some of the stories that we heard, remember one coach had told me, we have other college coaches who are in our area doing high school recruiting and they're doing meetups with our players and our players aren't in the portal. I had one head coach tell me a player had come to him, one of his most talented players,

probably the most talented player in his program. This is a group of five guy. And he said, we had a guy come in. He was like, I want to talk to you about the portal. I said, how much do you know about it? And he started telling him stuff. And he already had been contacted by a coach and the portal hadn't even opened up yet. And so I think that's the part that is really frustrating for coaches is that either other college coaches are being really brazen and blatant about it

where they're directly contacting the player and don't care about what's going to happen or what they're really doing is going to either a seven on seven coach or a trainer or going through a high school coach. And that's kind of the workaround to maybe so it's not tampering, even if it kind of is. Yeah, because when I was reading all the different stories that you were sharing here, and, lot of it can be pretty simple in that it's survival. So some of the sources that you're getting are just going, hey, this is how much harder my job is. level. So I know that the numbers can seem like it's being sped up a little bit more, but when I would read some of the quotes, I was like, I don't know, what'd you think was going to happen? Because guess what? If you're a kid and you were a two or a three star, and now all of a sudden you're making all conference in the group of five, and now power five schools are reaching

out to you and they may be just using you as depth, but they're certainly not telling you that, that you're getting attention at still a pretty young age that you didn't get when all your other friends are getting out of high school. It's not remotely surprising to see that that's a massive challenge for the group of five level. No, it's certainly when you look at it, think about how enticing it is to have people wooing you who never had showed an interest in you before. Nick Saban's coming after you. Ryan Day's coming after you. Jim Harbaugh's, you know, like those guys were not even looking at, you know, visiting your school when you were in high school. Now, all of a sudden you're that, you're the people, people, you're, you're the guy people care about

now that is hard to, to push away from. Um know it's funny there's this there's a story i did in this uh winner one of the hottest commodities who was in the portal in the winter was a guy named aj cornelius from new york city originally and he was not a you know he was not a great prospect in high school he probably wasn't in great shape didn't play at a high prospect in high school. He probably wasn't in great shape. Didn't play at a high-level high school program. And Stefan Wheeler, who was a really good, former really good offensive lineman in the Big Ten, was the offensive line coach at URI. And he took a chance on him, and they developed him,

and he started to blow up a little bit. And because of PFF, PFF has databases that you can, you know, in the premium side that coaches can search and kind of find who evaluates really well. And it gives them kind of a head start. He started to blow up in PFF last fall. And all of a sudden, all these coaches were like, hey, what's the deal with AJ Cornelius?

And so here's Stefan Wheeler going, you know, I want to help my guy out. I understand, but we're the ones who took a chance on him. We're the ones who developed them. And I feel, you know, it's, you know, it's tough because at the same time, it's your own job. And without that player, you're probably, I'm not saying you're going to get fired, but it's just harder to succeed that way. And I think, you know, he said, this kid did everything we asked except stay, you know, and he ended up going to Oregon. Now, by the way, Stefan Wheeler ended up changing jobs and he went to an Ivy League school.

But I think that's the big thing for coaches is I had one long time Power Five assistant coach who said, listen, I'm not going to talk out of both sides of my mouth. I had a good job once, and then somebody offered me more money at another good job, and it was better for my family, so I moved. And I took that job. It was like I was committed to that other program and those players that I had recruited, but then when I got a better offer, I left. So I'm not going to judge them or criticize them for doing the same thing. The only thing he really

didn't like was guys who he was buddies with in the profession who he had beers with and known for years. He was like, they didn't end around and basically recruited my best player out of my room. And I know that's what happened. I was going to say my piece to them and there's nothing I can do about it. Okay. You brought up a really interesting number though on the transfers and how successful the players have been as far as a draft rate in the transfer portal cycle of 21 and 22. So I think there's still some players left in this group that could still be drafted, I imagine. There's still some eligible to be drafted,

but this number was pretty staggering. Of the 123 scholarship players, the group of five players that transfer to Power 5 programs, as you say, some still have eligibility remaining but just three were drafted this april that is an eye-opening number yeah because you know that you know that expression the grass is always greener well you know yes you could get a better on an il deal but you go into a situation and you don't know what you're going into. You may play less time.

One of the coaches I talked to said he had a, he had a good defensive back who had decent measurables went, you know, went up to a bigger program, kind of got exposed and that player didn't get drafted. And, you know, like,

would he have gotten exposed later, maybe at the Senior Bowl a year later? Who knows? But I think some of those things where you get put in a different place, maybe you're not the star of the program. You're kind of competing for time. And maybe you don't get the amount of reps. We see this a lot where guys go up and they do play and they're contributors,

but it doesn't always work out for them. I think everybody looks at this and thinks, I'm going to be that Joe Burrow. Like Joe Burrow, Ohio State wasn't playing him. He goes to LSU and he's arguably the greatest player in that school's history and leads him to a national title, wins a Heisman and everything, it takes off. But most of those cases, you know, don't work out that way. I'm not saying it never works. It just doesn't usually work to that degree.

But you see a lot of times where, okay, what did you do? I mean, in our story, you know, we talked to Pat Narduzzi on the record and and he famously had Jordan Addison who won a bullet in a cough. Jordan Addison, after spring, ends up going to USC. Pat Narduzzi is livid. As he told us in the story, he called Lincoln Riley multiple times, was really pissed off, feels like it was tampering even if even if it was not a case where it was directly Lincoln Riley contacting him if it was Caleb Williams from the same part of the country as Jordan Addison maybe Caleb Williams was the initiator but you know the one of the things for the pips side was hey he needs you more than you need him being like you already won the bullet in the coffee you're not going to you know he needs you to help him win the highs. And I don't know exactly, you know, Jordan Addison left, left USC

and he became a, you know, mid late first round pick. And he was on a team that got a lot better. I would be curious, you know, five years from now, just if Jordan Addison were to say, yeah, I'm glad I made that move. I mean, hindsight is always 20-20. But the thing that we're hearing a lot of also is the NIL deals that are either promised or dangled. Some of those haven't worked out the way I think a lot of the players think or assume they're going to play out when they make that move. Okay. Two directions I can go in, but I want to stay on the NIL stuff because I want to get to it

because it's so important. I think you're being nice about some of it not working out. It's very clear, especially when it comes to some of the transfer portal stuff, that even in your piece, people that are furious about

everything that's been happening are still saying, make sure you get the NIL money up front if you're going to be one of these transfer guys. What do you think the ratio is of, hey, everything worked out or this wasn't even close to what I was promised when I decided to change schools? I would guess it's around 20%, Ryan.

I mean, a couple of things that go into that. Like we did this story at The Athletic on Jaden Rashada, who was a very hyped quarterback recruit from Northern California, was really shopped around by an agent in Southern California who took him all, had him go all over the country, trying to basically reset the NIL market for a high school recruit.

And at one point in our reporting, it was a $13 million offer. But the offer was not like the money that when we hear, you know, a rod is offered this for, you know, when he was, you know,

with the Texas Rangers or whoever, you know, this is not like pro sports contracts. I feel like a lot of these are the kind you, you have like written on a bar napkin at night. You know, they just, I don't think there,

there's a lot of meat to these. I'm not saying they're all flimsy, but I think a lot of them, especially that Florida one that Jayden Rashad ended up going for and then leaving, I think those are really sketchy because the agents are putting these things out there. They're trying to get the word of mouth so people think it's credible. So now, listen, oh, well, that kid's getting $300,000. Now we got to pay somebody $400,000. And I don't think anybody thinks these are close to these numbers. I mean, some of them are, but I think it's a really small percentage from what I've heard. And the other thing that goes on, and we got into this in the story that Max and I did the other day was you have a lot of agents who year for years would say to a player, Hey, why don't you go in? Why don't you go into the draft right now? Maybe the player's a sixth round pick. And then the agents get, you know, a fractional commission of that, but they get something. So it's like maybe, you like maybe 3% of whatever that player is going to get if they're a sixth round pick or a fifth round.

Maybe they hang around for a little while. Now the agents can tell a player, no, don't go in the draft. You're not ready yet. Let's try a change of scenery. We can get you X, Y, or Z from an NIL deal if you transfer. The player transfers, but now the agent can get like 15% or 20% of that commission. So it may be close to the same amount of money that we're talking about, but they're getting a way bigger cut of it. So what's the agent's incentive is to tell

somebody, hey, why don't we shop you around and see what we can get? Because a lot of these, you know, a lot of these schools, you know, that expression, one man's trash is another man's treasure. A lot of these schools will sit there and go, well, we know what we have. That guy's not very good. Maybe with a change of scenery, you know, this guy can be our, you know, Will Levis or whoever was not maybe playing much, but then they can get showcased with a different environment, come in. And there's just like, so, you know, it's, it's a little bit like it's the girl from the other town who everybody's like really, you know, buzzing about when she shows up, it's like, who's that girl. And it's a big deal as opposed to like the person you've known for, for years. Yeah. Some of the NIL stuff, uh, again, as I learned more about it and hear some of the rumors

and you're saying 20% is, you're saying of the deals that you've heard about or whatever, the way it's talked about in the industry, 20% have come through. Like 20% of what was promised is actually what was made. Yeah. I think those are probably in the lines of a legitimate, like there's follow through. I don't buy that when it comes to the recruiting lures of some of this, it just doesn't make sense that players are going to get what we heard initially and then all of a sudden you start asking, yeah, that's not what they got or whatever. I'm just very dubious of it. Honestly, Ryan, it doesn't make sense if you think about it. What ultimately happens when some of these kids who are rumored to get millions end up not living up to it? That business model is not sustainable because then it's fool's gold. You're not going to offer that money or even close to that money when you realize the percentages of it working out is really fractional, right? I mean, I did a little

study where I looked at the last decade of five-star recruits. At best, about 30% of those lived up to the hype at best. And that's before the NIL era kicked in. Meaning that's before, like when we talked to, you know, did this Jaden Rashada story, you know, the elite 11 guys had some interesting comments about how other players looked at Rashada when he showed up there. And it's like, you know, you're not just going to be known like for years, these guys were known as that guy's the five star, this guy's the four star or whatever. But now it's something that's a different distinction. You're the $13 million quarterback. When your teammates go out for dinner, guess who they expect to pay? It's not the guy who is the three star. It's the guy who supposedly

got $15 million or $13 million because that's all they know. That's all they've known is that's how you are. Even if you didn't get $13 million, they're like, well, he they've known is that's how you are you know even if you didn't get 13 million they're like well he must have got nine or whatever um and i think that's a hard burden to wear i know from our reporting it was it really wore on rashada when he was going through this and so now you're going to have your own, you know, you know, all of these are going to happen, you know, in their own little environments, maybe not to the same degree, but I think that's a heavy burden. And most of the kids I think will struggle to handle it just because, you know, I've heard stories even, you know, in my reporting last year covering college football of a lot of kids who were starters probably come from maybe more stable situation. But even it was hard on them where their parents are now talking about, oh, they got a second, they're renting or got a house in the college town to follow their son

around because of the NIL money. And the kid knows that. And that's harder on some kids than I think we had, at least we had realized. It also creates weird locker room dynamics. I've heard a lot about that, about how that plays out and how coaches have to manage that. I'm not saying it's all bad, but I think there's a lot of burden and there's a lot of challenges that I think maybe until we start digging in, we're really not realizing that they're there. Until we start digging in, we're really not realizing that they're there. Yeah, I'm not sure how much the locker room stuff or any of that kind of bothers me because guys are getting money before. And so they would kind of hear about it or know. But now it's publicized in a way. And the Rashada story is really interesting because you're kind of like, wait, why is he worth $13 million? And it felt like it was worth it to all the parties that were involved to present it. It was almost like the NFL free agency stuff that happens. You're like, wait, that guy got that contract. And it's like the first version of the reporting is this big number. And then you dig in,

you're like, actually years four and five or nothing and six is not ever going to happen. And here's the guaranteed money. And actually he can be waived after this and so the goal behind that story when i was reading it which you guys did an awesome job on it felt like it was the headline factor of look at this kid who's going to florida look at what this collective did look how you know look how smart and tight and you know we're doing a better job with it and i was like i i don't know that one didn't make any sense. It's nuts, Ryan, because if you think about it, the agent who got the first deal, and it was for Nico, the quarterback from California, who ended up going to Tennessee, it's north of $6 million.

That's a ridiculous amount of money for a high school kid who's never played, thrown a college pass even in a practice, and he's getting that before he goes there. Then the same agent now is shopping this other kid around who's probably less, not as highly regarded by college coaches, but because there's less quarterbacks out there, he's trying to get people to talk about, all right, there's the $9 million deal. And so he can reset the market. Well, the thinking is the next quarterback who

he gets in 2024 or 2025, what's that kid going to be? Is he going to be worth $20 million? I mean, it's insane to think that because like, that's more money than Kenny Pickett was going to get when he was, you know, drafted in the first round by the Steelers and had a college resume. And so it's not to say Kenny Pickett's going to turn out to be, you know, Terry Bradshaw for the Steelers. But at least there's a lot more, you know, at least there's a lot more proof of what he's done than a high school kid where it's just, it's essentially a crapshoot at that point. Yeah, you're right. I guess if you're looking at the Kenny Pickett first round contract versus how much total it's not like the quarterback to be getting 20 million but then again like when

you heard some of the Kayla Williams numbers transferring somewhere it was like okay well sign me up like I don't care what they are because he's going to be worth it we've already seen him play at a certain level I think the ones that are always surprising me and look I'm by the way I'm still glad everybody's getting their money but they'll be like a backup offensive lineman. And then he'll ask somebody for 50 grand and you're just like, wait, why are you supposed to coach? You, there's a coach. I know, you know, well told me some stories of like guys, they were interested in this. Like, wait a minute, somebody's paying that kid, $150,000.

I keep calling one touchdown last year, you know? And it's some, there's definitely, there's definitely some momentum over. It's like, no, no, you're just supposed to give me money. Like,

do you, did you not see the release? And you're kind of like, well, yeah, I was supposed to give some dudes money, but look, and good for them if they can get them,

but they can get it. But the thing is, it's like, you know, this round, the thing that was really interesting this spring is there was way less players in the portal that people were like really excited about than there were a year ago at this time. is absolutely true where people are getting giddy over a guy who may be a serviceable power five player but it's not like you're talking about orlando pace and and because there's just there's just not a lot of bodies in there now what's going to happen is because a lot of programs haven't signed that many high school players because they've gone so hard into the portal they're

not developing and then you're gonna you know it, you're going to have that void where it's going to keep going on just because there's not enough, there's not enough, you know, position players and linemen to be developed. So there's going to be that void, you know, in, you know, a couple of years from now as well. Okay. To finish up here, uh, you know, recruiting is basically trained all of these guys to do what they're doing. So it's the same category, it's just a different version of it. So when I read the piece, as much as I can understand how frustrating it is, how annoying it is, and then people feeling like, oh, we're just going, guys are going like third-party representatives, a seven-on-seven coach, a high school coach, a relative, and they can go that way where there's not direct contact. It's like, okay, but that's just

repackaging. That was already happening before in some other way. So part of me feels like this could turn into, hey, do you want to bitch about how tough your job is? Guys were like, yes, absolutely. I would like to share that with you. I love this stuff. I'm always going to read it. I just don't know that it's ever solvable. I think it's share that with you. I love this stuff. I'm always going to read it. I just don't know that it's ever solvable. I think it's just what it is. And it's going to get worse before it ever gets better. I don't, because college football does a really bad job of legislating anything.

I mean, look around, look at the conference stuff, look at the scheduling stuff. They're not good at all getting on the same page. So this is going to remain a free for all is my guess. Yeah, you're exactly right. Because you have one side, you have the college coaches who are insanely competitive. They can't help themselves. And so they're fighting with themselves. Then you have the other part of this is you have a sport with zero leadership at the top end. The NCAA is checked out and is useless. And the people who run college football, they can't even get out of their own way. So it's kind of, you know, I think it's, it's going to

thrive in its own way in spite of itself, but because there's still, you know, it's still football and everybody, you know, is going to tune in and watch it. Maybe the attendance numbers aren't going to be as great. The coaches are going to be pissed off. You know, ultimately the coaches resource or recourse for this is either if you want your, if you want to have some semblance of a normal life, not 12 months of the year, then try to get an NFL job or go do what Chris Peterson did and go move on to TV and take your foot off the gas a little bit because you know it's too crazy. And I think it's only going to get crazier, Ryan, because they're not going to be able to legislate this. And no matter how much they try,

I think they're just going to create more problems, right? Because people see money like this basically gave the keys to a lot of third party people that, as you said, were out there before, but now they, they have brought them more into the mainstream. So I, I don't, I don't think that's going to change. I just think that's going to change. I just think that's going to be an issue they're going to deal with. And I think there's going to be some good that comes with it. There's like, look, there's a lot of NIL deals, and there's a lot of athletes, not just college football players who are really benefiting. And I think those are good things. It's just like it's the coaches, they cannot help themselves. And it's a problem that I think largely they have created themselves.

Yeah. And that's why I kind of land after I get done with the piece is like, man, that sucks. Also don't really have a ton of sympathy. No, I mean, yeah, it's like at the combine, I run into NFL coaches who are giddy that they have, you know, kind of a normal dad life come the spring when their buddies are manic and constantly checking their phones and, and paranoid about everything else and always looking over their shoulder. Um, but there's more money, you know, for a lot of them, there's probably more money in college coaching than, than there, you know, there's

more jobs. So that's why it's like, that's the the reality they've chosen. Bruce Elman, The Athletic and Fox Sports. Always great to catch up, man. Talk to you soon. Thanks, Ryan. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South For south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids i am liquid so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's required life advice is brought to you by modelo let's face it life can be hard but modelo believes that you are fighters and you deserve a beer that's brewed for those of the fighting spirit you deserve modelo the mark of a fighter a rich rich Mexican lager made with premium hops for a crisp and refreshing taste. The perfect reward to celebrate perseverance no matter what life throws your way. What's up, everybody? Life advice, rr at gmail.com.

And Kyle is back east. Get ready. The countdown is on. It's very strange. I still don't quite understand how the YouTube part of the show works, which is probably my fault. But we're looking at Kyle right now, and he has a boyish glow to him that I thought was a filter.

Cerruti and I are in agreement on this one. He's got a weird look right now. He looks younger. He looks like a boy. He's back home. I don't know what it is, but it's working for you, buddy. It's the jewel of the Hudson Valley. It's just what it does to you. Something about a kid in his hometown, you know, you've got that like sepia tone.

I don't know. It's just like, it's a good look for you. You do. Thanks. You look good, man. And I'm happy to say that I know the week of your wedding, you should look good. Thanks. Thanks. I've held off on the haircut. I'm going to get my, um, haircut on Wednesday, which would be tomorrow by, uh, my, like my childhood barber first time in like 12 years. I think that had,

that's happened. So, uh, I guess I hope he doesn't fuck this up. I mean, I didn't, I was like, Oh,

it'd be so great that the guy used to get my haircut from is now like, you know, blown up pretty big and, and stuff like that. And, and now it's just like, I realized he hasn't touched my hair in like a decade. so i guess the first time will be two days before the wedding what's going on with that mustache you think i just want to what am i going to do with it i think

i'll leave it up to him i'll be like what do you think we should do um i was just i wanted to give him the most canvas to work with here so i just been kind of not touching anything you plan to go yeah shaving the face, though? I don't think so. I don't really like when I do that. So I don't think I'll do that. Yeah, I would say don't do anything drastic because obviously the picture thing is pretty forever.

Yeah, it looks forever, right? Yeah. Yeah, the mustache is definitely looking weird, though, right now, I would say, no matter what is going on. Like through this filter, again, you look like you're 22 right now you look really happy you're home but there's a mustache angle that i'm i'm picking up that i don't know that's anyone's goal big enough it's definitely not too big no it's not big enough it's just spotty it's spotty and it seems to be focused in the nostril area and then kind of fades

to the wings to the left and right I'll bring it up to my barber all good notes I'll be like hey can we do something about the spottiness of this thanks any other time I would say fuck off but I think this is good this is good stuff thank you

if you said it now I would accept it as well I just i'm trying to have your back and i again this filter is really throwing me off it's like somebody sent us kyle's younger brother to produce the show for the day it's just an orange room and there's like an orange old like old school light here so i don't know i maybe i could turn the lights off maybe i don't know we're fine we're fine all right you're gonna be able to carry on yeah yeah all right so uh let's get to a few of these uh we have a business proposal get hit by a football player gym business what's up guys thanks for reading this email i'm sitting here watching nhl playoffs and i see the kachuk eichel hit and i think to myself what would that

feel like my next thought is, do I even have a way to ever feel that hit? I don't play in the NHL or NFL. I could have probably guessed that. So I've never felt a hit like that. Then I started thinking, could I go to a gym or studio and safely get hit like an NFL or NHL player? Like maybe the ice and boards are padded in the NHL style and maybe the grass is padded in the NFL style. You get to wear some extra pads. I start looking around on the Google and I can't find any place to do this at. Here's my business side.

What time did he send this email? No, it's before midnight East coast, very early West coast. So day was it though? Is it a Friday, Saturday night? Oh,

it was last night. Cause the hit, the hit was last night because the hit was last night. Here's the business idea. Open up gyms like these where people can have a simulated hit by an NFL or NHL player, controlled environment, likely machines and not humans hitting the patrons.

Since it would be automated, I could offer customers to be hit at 50 or 25% instead of 100 because I highly doubt there's a large market of people wanting to be decleted by Troy Polamalu. I would have to find a way to purchase the rights to a Polamalu or Ronnie Lott hit number from Amazon Stats. I don't know. I don't know if you would have to do that. I remember the old pitching machines in misquamicate where they were named after different red socks relievers i doubt back then anybody was suing anybody um whatever all right um customers could choose

no dude way before that like way way like eckersley um you know and i'm talking like before oakland eckersley so um i i look i mean he's asking a bunch of other questions about insurance and the legality of it all uh he thinks that there's waivers that you could sign i still think you're just getting sued, man. You're just inventing a business to be sued. And I don't think that there's a huge demand. I think there's a huge demand. Like the only place this would work is in a place where guys were younger and drunk all the time.

So maybe Vegas, maybe. Yeah. Maybe Vegas where guys are like, dude, I could, I could take that hit. And you can't, your body wouldn't be conditioned to it. Most of us would, would be so fucked up from it. Um, if you're younger, you know, you might just recover if you're older, dude, I mean, guys reach for stuff and they're out of commission for three days, just reaching. Okay. So, uh, I don't think it's a very good business plan. I think most people don't want to do it. I think there's a lot of people who would say they'd like to do it.

Definitely. Which is still not a big enough number to market and then actually showing up to the place to then get smashed. So I don't even think you thought this was a good idea. So I don't know how how it would it would work like i mean you see kimbo slices did this 10 years ago right i mean this was this was like his whole business model right give it a mouth you stand there i'll give you 100 bucks and i'll just murder you and that's kind of i don't know if he ever got sued or not but like if i mean it's from what i heard there's no like when you're when you're you know football coach tells you like you got to be running as hard as you can otherwise you're going to get hurt like if you're just standing there waiting to take a hit is where you get more hurt than if you're, when you're, you know, football coach tells you like, you gotta be running as hard as you can. Otherwise you're going to get hurt. Like if you're just standing there waiting to take a hit is where you get more hurt than if you're like running, you know, is this like a ball

drill where you're running and trying to run through a hit or try to brace for it, or you're just standing there waiting for something to come at you. Right. I mean, so if you're just, I think it's already off to a bad start. If the guy's just going to be standing there waiting for some machine to come at a certain speed and crash into him. So I think you haven't thought it out. But yeah, the only people that are going to do this is you who has this weird thought about whether I could take a hit or not. And you probably wouldn't even go through with it. Or it would just have to be like a bachelor party service where it's just like you're throwing a kid's party for an adult and you just pay for a service and they come and set up in your backyard or something.

I don't think your parking lot is going to be full every day if you're a satellite office in the back of a gym. So it's probably just a no-go and maybe just open a food truck instead if you need to do something. I don't know. Have a different business in mind. I feel like I'm not as concerned with the legalities. I mean, you sign waivers for like any, like, I mean, I just went, I was at a bachelor party last weekend and we went like whitewater wrapping in Maine, like 45 degree weather. And it was pretty miserable. And we signed a waiver and they're like, yeah, you could die. Like, you know, it is what it is.

They give, they give you the whole spiel and you get caught under the water and you know, it's a, it's a recovery, not a rescue situation. I don't, I think, I think I'm not worried about the legality of it, but I just think who are the repeat customers? Like it a rescue situation. I'm not worried about the legality of it, but I just think, who are the repeat customers? It happens one time. I can see you go once. Are you going back? It feels like one of those things like,

all right, yeah, I felt it, and then that's it. Are people going to be driving in from other states to get hit by a professional football player? Probably not. End of the fantasy football season, maybe. That's like a punishment for a few guys. I don't know. I think it's going to be spotty at best i you know maybe it's part of a bigger business

you know maybe it's like a carnival thing like it's just as you pitch this to a carnival and you go on the road but i can't imagine that it's its own thing yeah i mean when's the next time you're going rafting uh you we probably could go like every five years. So, you know, yeah. Yeah. Cause even rafting, like you go, maybe next time it won't be hypothermia inducing. How bad of a time was that? That sounds terrible. It was so, so it was the first time we went, it was like 85 sunny, beautiful middle of July. It was awesome. Um, this time we drove up on a Thursday, it was 95 degrees out. And then two days later on Saturday, when we were going, it was 45 degrees, uh, shout out to Maine and dudes were hung over. It was early in the morning.

Everybody was looking for a way out. It was freezing cold. We put full wetsuits on, you know, even down to the shoes. And it actually wasn't as bad as you would think. I mean, it was definitely cold. Well, only one of my buddies actually fell into the water itself. And he was like, it actually wasn't that bad because you would think. I mean, it was definitely cold. Only one of my buddies actually fell into the water itself. And he was like, it actually wasn't that bad because there was no wind underwater. So it actually for like 30 seconds felt kind of good.

But it was pretty cold. I wouldn't recommend it. Okay. Wouldn't recommend. There you go. Okay. We got two females slash women checking in here we go

23 year old female 5'6 130 I'm not sure of my gym stats but I got into running a few months ago just hit a six and a half minute mile if that counts for anything that's pretty good currently in grad school in a small town and have made friends with a group of girls that would not normally hang out with outside of school

it's kind of making the best out of a bad situation well who's the coolest chicken town not really on your level yeah right these girls are not cool you're basically doing them a favor right normally wouldn't even give them time of the day. All right. As there are not many people in my class and I'm six hours away from my hometown and close friends, the rest of the girls definitely consider me one of their closer friends. However, I cannot say the same at all. What gave it away? I tolerate them because it is my benefit for studying homework, etc. One girl, let's call her Amanda, has already asked me and the rest of the group to be bridesmaids in her December 2023 wedding, which I reluctantly agreed to. We all went on her bachelorette trip in May this year. With all the wedding planning going on for Amanda's wedding, another girl, let's call her Rachel, told us she wants us to be in her wedding in November 24 and have all of us to be bridesmaids again. Losers. Rachel isn't even engaged yet. Well, maybe she's a planner.

It's a little carpool for the horse, right? Yeah, right, right. Here's my dilemma. I graduate in August 24. My plan was to basically disappear from the group and move on with my life. Being in a wedding is expensive, let alone having to pay for student loans.

I'd prefer not to spend time and money to be in a wedding of a person I don't consider a close friend. I know Rachel will definitely ask us to be in her wedding when the time comes, but I do not want to stay friends with this group longer than I have to. When Rachel does end up asking me

to be a bridesmaid, how can I kindly let her down and tell her no after already agreeing to be in Amanda's wedding? Also open to any ideas of getting out of this impending situation. Thanks, my boyfriend and i love the pod uh i i think you're built for this i don't think you give a shit um so to ask

us the soft way of doing it i don't think you care about the soft way you're openly admitting that you were only friends with these people because you had no other options and you've already presented the case that like you know that you're just kind of killing time and they think you're a lot cooler so you have all the juice it sounds like too in this dynamic so if you're already kind of wired this way i don't think you need our help really like hey i don't want to go you you don't want to be friends with these people at all. You're basically, once you graduate, you've told us you're done with them. So I'm surprised you feel like you have to be held to any kind of standard at all. Like, I don't think you give a shit.

So why do you need our advice? You're just going to tell, I don't know, maybe you go to the first one and tell the next one, yeah, I'll be gone. I'll be moving and I won't be able to do that. I mean, honestly, if you give such an abrupt in a matter of fact answer that somebody's going to be so thrown off by your directness they're not even going to know what to do with you and you're not going to win other people that transaction yeah right that means you just straight up say it like yeah after this i'm not going to any of them see ya and you know they're going to say what an asshole she was and yeah and you're not gonna

care because you don't care about this friend group i i think that's a route i also think this could call for a big lie big lie a big lie big lie huge lie um and i think you could pull it off because you're going to be disappeared and um you know if you get caught really doesn't matter because you're not planning on doubling back to this group so i think you just find out when it is month-long trip to europe that's what you say that's what you say you just you find out like kind of what it is instagram though they're gonna know what you get started you'll be disappeared you'll be disappeared and maybe you don't even post the your thing you know i don't know uh i just think this calls for a big lie i think you could just be like when is it oh? Oh, the whole month of August. I'm gone. I'm so sorry.

I'm sorry. Yeah, sorry. The graduation party will be fun. That'll be great. So I think a big lie works, especially if you don't really care that much. But we're talking bachelorette party and to be in the wedding. Those aren't always a month

apart. They could be more than a month apart. So you'd have to, what's your shoes for the other one? If it's like, well, the bachelor party is just, there's something that comes up or something. You can even wait till like the week of and be like,

Oh my God, I'm so sorry. And then that's right now. Yeah. Or just something comes up. Like, I don't know. Something you pick what comes up,

but then you got your, but then you got your big trip. That's just, everything's blocked out. Have you, have you guys ever said no to being in a wedding? No, I've only been invited to. I guess Kyle, too.

Not a good question for Kyle. Yeah. In a wedding? In it? Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. I don't.

But then I didn't go. I mean, I've fucked up a few weddings where I've been like oh yeah I guess I'm not going to that you know when I was younger work stuff you know like I think I've told the story a couple times but like one of my friends is getting married I didn't RSVP because I was in my 20s just assuming I'll just show up they know I'm going right I mean right right like whatever just let me know what time you guys are getting there and then I'll just show up. They know I'm going, right? Right, right. Like, whatever. Just let me know what time you guys are getting there.

And then it was Sox-Yankees. It was the NFL draft, and the Celtics were playing the Pacers. And so I called my buddy, Hal. And I was like, hey, I got a luxury suite Pacer-Celtics Friday night. You want to go? He's like, Dickhead, I'm getting married Saturday. And I was like, Oh yeah. He's like, you're coming. Right. And I was like, yeah, I don't, I was like, I don't think I, I was like, I don't think I am now that I thought about it. He's like, sweet. He's like, what the fuck dude? And I go, yeah, but I, I actually have to work from Foxborough. It was the Vince Wilford draft, I believe. So I was actually live from Foxborough, which I think is the, but I actually have to work from Foxborough. It was the Vince Wilford draft, I believe.

So I was actually live from Foxborough, which I think is the only time I ever did anything like that. So work asked me to do like this extra day. So, you know, and I was just getting started in Boston. So maybe I've been there a year or two, not even. And I was just like, dude, this is an awful weekend. He's like, yeah, well, I picked this weekend a while ago. And so I just was like, oh, this is an awful weekend. He's like, yeah, well, I picked this weekend a while ago. And so I just was like, oh, I.

You still talk to that guy? Yeah, I'm actually still very close with him. But I mean, luckily, he was kind of wired that way to just go, you know, you're an idiot. And I was like, yep. And then I think the other thing, too, is that he was even kind of like, why don't you just come down for the reception? Like, just drive down. And at that point, I was like, yeah, you know already out dude i'm not doing yeah i'm not sure i could even really like swing i'm not even sure i could have afforded like a hotel room like just outside of the budget uh at that time i mean i wouldn't

have been afraid of just saying i'll worry about it later and then having to deal with it later but yeah i've definitely screwed up some stuff like that, but this is like premeditated, you know, but as you've said in the email, your timeline is pretty specific. You graduate next year, August 24. You've got one girl here planning you to be a bridesmaid for a wedding that she's not even, you know, she's planning a wedding and she's not even engaged yet, which, you, which maybe she's just, maybe these are Midwestern people and they've got it all mapped out. Maybe it's the South and people can't believe you're not married yet

and you're 25. So different sensibilities all over the country here, but I think you're out is, hey, once I'm gone, I'm gone. This thing here, it's over. Yeah. We had a good run. Just start hugging everybody

and don't reach out again you've been notified right I don't think I think that's a better option I think that's a better option than Kyle's option I don't think the big lie if you don't want to feel that that way when you're telling them that I think

there's nothing wrong with a big lie that's all they've got a lot of other shit going on you know because you don't know i don't know i read the email i mean i i don't even mean this like you seem rather matter of fact dare i say leaning towards cold you don't give a fuck about this friend group like it's a great amount of power that you have when you don't care how they feel so so just you know keep it moving yeah it's got that amount of power that you have when you don't care how they feel. So, so just, you know, keep it moving. Yeah.

It's got that Larry David vibe when Marty Funkhouser was like, if you weren't my best friend, I would tear your head off. And Larry's like, I'm not your best friend. What are you talking about? So, uh, yeah, just Larry David. It just be a little unpleasant, I guess. Be honest and a little unpleasant. That's fine. I'd like.

All right. Uh, let's, let's go with another female. She says, I mean woman. All right. 33, 5'8", just ran a marathon in 426. I live in Santa Monica. I just started dating a guy about a month ago.

Nothing serious. Still feeling each other out. We have a lot of fun together and I'm starting to like him. For a bit of context, he works in lending at a bank. Did not expect that would mean he was rich, but generally a decent paying job out in LA. Yeah, right. I mean, it's not his bank. He's not the one lending the money. Sure, he says it that way sometimes though. Right. Big party for my bank this week, you know, Christmas. I'm a bank teller ryan says to always tell everyone you work in banking um all right so one major issue he's outwardly frugal he's

the type of person who would want to itemize a 10 plus person group dinner and count how many appetizers everyone ate even if everyone was drinking some examples on our first date he made it a point to make sure we made it in time for happy hour, made it by a couple minutes and proceeded to get multiple beers before it ended.

Anything to save $2 a beer. That's understandable. I don't hate that. Yeah. That's understandable. He made it a point to get sure we made it in time for happy hour,

made it by a couple minutes, then proceeded to get multiple beers before it ended. What's multiple beers? Did you like sit around with six Coors Lights and they were getting warm no i think to the extra beer or two if you're really planning on hammering that first one yeah sometimes guys hammer that

first one um stanford last last sunday last sunday we went to a couple bars on the west side had a few beers split a pizza which he paid. I slept over at his place. Ew. And the next morning when we walked to get coffee, he asked if I could pay since he had gone over his budget the night before. Dude. Don't love that. Yeah. Don't love that.

He sucks. Yeah. What happens if you go over your budget and no one else is around, then what happens to your budget? Right. Like, ah, man,

did you even sleep over for the good stuff or did you sleep over? Cause it's like, at least here I have a budget buffer in the morning where I have to get coffee or juice. I have someone else I could try to offset, whatever. Um, number three,

we made a bet on the Nuggets Heat Series. Being a bitter Celtics fan, I said the Heat wouldn't win more than one game. Hey, welcome to the club. His suggestion was for the loser to pay for dinner at a $2 sign restaurant. Yes, he said $2 sign.

So that means what? Medium expensive. What are we talking?f changs like one dollar one dollar sign is you know mcdonald's and like you know some you know maybe there's some some diners that are like one dollar sign and then you know the three dollar signs is is is pretty nice and four dollar signs is like you know like major domo is probably three dollar signs and then uh four dollar signs is some shit you probably would have a hard time getting into two dollars there's no there's no five dollar signs

no four is the max i think okay you're right no i guess i kind of knew when you look at like different places or whatever i guess i just don't know i just don't trust anything all right so two dollar sign is is it pf chang's is it applebee's what is it Applebee's? What is it? Yeah, I think Applebee's is probably the low end of $2 sign and I think there's probably a higher end of $2 signs. Alright. Texas Roadhouse maybe? Texas Roadhouse? I had a great meal at a Texas Roadhouse.

I love Texas Roadhouse. Then the one in West Hartford or East Hartford I don't think was as good. The Texas. It lost some Texas along the way. I get paid well and have no issue with splitting, paying for a meal or drink. And I understand that not everyone has the means or desire to go out all the time and pay for two. But I do think that if that is the case, you should be honest about it

rather than constantly making comments about spending and costs that make me uncomfortable. How can I bring it up that makes, how can I bring up that it makes me uncomfortable without coming off as rude or pretentious, or I just move on because I'm pretty sure he isn't going to grow out of this phase? Yeah, I think the number two one is so much worse than the other ones. Like you want to make it to happy hour? Cool. No problem. You know, guys that are really frugal and kind of map it out. Part of me envies them a little bit, you know, that you know that they're not going to put themselves in a situation financially because they're kind of wired the right way where other people can take some more financial risks and you

know i look at stuff over the years and go you know maybe you could have tightened the screws up a little bit there so there's there's part of me that admires admires uh somebody that is kind of mapping this out and it feels a little ben stiller-ish along came poly risk management thing where because he works in lending that maybe there's some part of him that's like wired to do the job better because he's always thinking about things in you know this isn't risk and loans this is do you want to pay fucking two extra dollars for a beer uh the the chances are is this is kind of how he is and he's always going to be this and i think the number two option that you shared with us where he asked you to cover his essential budget overflow the night before by getting him whole again will he be up in the game the next day

because his budget wouldn't be used on any breakfast stuff like coffee or juice so he'd be back to even that's not somebody you want to marry unless you love that right if every other part of it's great does he have the shark gills for shark gill season maybe you know but that number two example is fucking lame and if if the other ones bother you that's except that i think is really going to bother you yeah i mean if it if he what he meant was just like yo do i got dinner do you want to get breakfast like i don't think there's anything wrong with that i think the over explanation is weird but you know early on when you're dating someone and it's not like it's past the point of like oh this is our second date or whatever. Like you guys are staying

at each other's houses and you're doing stuff together. Like it can feel like, damn it. I just, I paid for the last three dinners and then we went, got coffee in between. And then I paid for lunch and then she wants to go out to breakfast. Like it can feel like, God, I'm just getting hammered here. And if I don't say anything, this is just going to be the nature of things. And I don't know if that's what he was going for. He might've said it the wrong way, but just like, you know, like sometimes there's a, it's a, there's a, your turn sort of thing that can happen here. And, um, you know, sometimes it happens with me with grocery trips and stuff. And it's like, all right, you know, we went out to lunch yesterday, went to get some coffee. We just, you know, went to the grocery store and then it's like, oh, we got to run to the pharmacy.

And I'm like standing at the counter and I'm like, is she going to pull this out? It looks like she's not pulling out that purse. So it's like she's she hasn't gotten a hint. And maybe it's like, you want to get this one? And I think that would have been a better way to say it if he was just like, you know, the way my budget set up. I mean, that could that could be weird. But if you would know whether he was like just bad at explaining that or not and then i know some couples that like who's pretty close to me uh and the the folks that i'm marrying into who just they have like an app and it's like they're talking cents you know they're talking they're talking you know 275 you know just splitting the you know the five dollar meal or something but

it's just so that it's it's like they have an app and they just plug it in. It's like, all right. So, you know, so far, you know, you're into me for $87 and 25 cents for, you know, the last four purchases. And, you know, maybe that's a way that you could see where you're at without him having to tell you everything, if that's what bothers you. Or, or maybe when you're out in a group, you know, and you're done, you're like, you got to stop doing this, like in the group. It's just, it's throwing the, the, throwing the vibes off and maybe he'll he'll understand it from that thing we were like other people like i get you but other people can't see it you know the way i see it so you know maybe just cool off this so those are those are a couple options but um i don't know i think what ryan said like it's it's not going to change. It's, it's who this guy is. Right.

So like, how much do you like this guy? Like, is, is this the only red flag? Is, is he, is he funny?

Like, is he good? Is he super good looking? He's not funny. He's got some, there's a good chance he's not funny. Good. All right.

Well said. Yeah. Good point. Uh, there's a good chance he's got, he's got some money. Um, so like do the other things sort of outweigh this one sort of if it's this one annoying thing to you

I totally understand why it wouldn't it would probably piss me off I mean listen there's some stuff like I'm married Kyle's about to be married like there's there's stuff that your partner cannot like about you and you guys are still going to be fine but what would you say like the six things about your wife that you don't like well I'm just kidding no I'm trying to think of stuff that i'm trying to

think of stuff she wouldn't like about me like i can be cold um i am very i'm i'm a very i'm a realist like i'm very just like no like this isn't gonna happen i probably play too many video games from time to time so like there's there's plenty of things that are knocks on me but they weren't ultimately deal breakers for her so that's great um but if this is a deal breaker for you that's totally fine what what no i'm just it's just funny having you list the things you think are like flaws about yourself where you're like hey no because i mean there's also kind of listening to you say this it's another reason why saruti and i get along so well uh because it'd be like what would you say about yourself like there's going to be days where i'm just going to

be very detached i'm a moody guy it is what it is she's gonna be some days like what's this guy's deal today does he hate me no no just you. Got other things I'm thinking about for the next few days. It's just Tuesday. Don't worry about it. We're good. We're good. I'm so in love. Really?

Yeah, yeah. No, you're the best. The only thing I would say, though. Leave me alone. This guy, if you bring this guy around your friends, your friends aren't going to like this guy. That's like a classic red flag. People are like, what the hell is this guy doing? He's splitting the bill this way. He's worried a classic red flag where people are like, what the hell is this guy doing? He's like splitting the bill this way.

And he's like worried about, as Kyle said, like 50 cents on the bill. I think the over one is such a red flag. It just is of like, hey, do you mind? Because last night I paid for stuff that you that he would bring it up. I don't think the guy should have to pay for every single thing. I'm a little old fashioned. I think it's OK that you're you're supposed to pay for most, but it's just, it's just great. It's a great feeling when she goes to the car, just like once every, you know, if you're dating somebody

seriously and once every few weeks she, she pulls out the card. Like that's all I ever needed. Just knowing that it existed, that it was a slight possibility every now and then. And look, depending on your financial situation, that plays into it as well, too. You know, if you're more broke than she is, then, yeah, you got to figure out some adjustments here on the fly. But based on everything you've both said, or at least the way you've explained your financial situation and explain his financial situation. And I can also understand like the frugal person because like what's the idea of like why is everybody supposed to just go out and one guy whacks the tab with high-end margaritas and orders two extra fucking apps and an entree and then everybody's going all right 16 bucks for everybody here like i kind of get it you know

especially like when i was broke and i go oh this guy is going to order like a ribeye sidecar on top of everything else. Although what would happen, right, what would happen in our friend group is the broke guys would go the other way. They'd hammer the tab knowing that, hey, you're going to get everything on a discount because we're just going to whack this up. But, you know, when you've known each other for 10 or 15 years and you hope it could balance out it actually never balances out the same guys that win by taking advantage of it were the ones that won every time and it would just get to the point where guys would be like hey you're gonna be excited tonight later in an hour knowing that you like ripped off the rest of us by ordering like one guy was like guys were like hey let's just do beers and burgers everybody's good right and then the guy turns he's like two jack and cokes we were like what what are you doing he's

like i'm getting jack and cokes like but you already ordered yourself a second one who's the second one for he's like me you know and so i'm like that guy didn't give a shit we'd all known each other long enough that he figured like all right, if these guys were going to get rid of me as a friend, it would have already happened. But yeah, it can get annoying. But the number two one, can you help my overage so I can get back on track budget-wise? I think I'd hide that or lie about it if I just started dating somebody.

Tough to come back to that. Right. The fact that he couldn't hide that one the next day and you've been hanging out what a month just even if he felt that way and that's what he wanted to ask you shut the fuck up yeah don't ask a girl that i think you got to either ask is this a quirk that's is this a guy with a quirk that's going to be able to retire at the age of 55 because he's got a budget or is this just a guy that's insane i think that's what you gotta ask is he going to be able to retire at the age of 55 because he's got a budget or is this just a guy that's insane i think that's what you gotta ask is he going to retire at 55 because you're now subsidizing his budget yeah like you are you're going to be on a on a budget your entire life

then like you're going to have like yeah even if you're retired it's going to be like oh we can't go on this vacation we can't do that and that sucks coming home can you sit down i need to talk to you oh my god what is it so i've been noticing these magazine subscriptions. I don't think you're reading all of them. What percentage would you say you read this? Yeah. Is this 12 bucks a month going to really the best max? Like we maximize in that $12. Life advice has been brought to you by Modelo. The fighting spirit means never giving up even when the odds are against you. And it's something you can taste in every sip of Modelo. This crisp golden lager has premium hops that make it the perfect reward to get through whatever challenges you're facing.

You deserve this, so hold it up high. Modelo, the mark of a fighter. Shop delivery or pickup options for Modelo near you at OrderModelo.com. Drink responsibly. Beer imported by Crown Imports Chicago, Illinois. Okay, thanks to Kyle. Thanks, Steve. As always, we'll be checking in on Kyle

throughout the week. Outro Music