The Ryen Russillo Podcast - LaVine and OKC Impress While the Heat, Pelicans, and Zion Disappoint. Plus Former NBA Player Quentin Richardson.

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

Ryen opens with Tales From the Couch: Play-In Edition, including the Timberwolves running out of gas against the Lakers, the Hawks embarrassing the Heat, why we don’t see more Zach LaVine performances like that, OKC’s future, and the Pelicans potentially having to think about their future with Zion (0:39). Next, he chats with former NBA player Quentin Richardson about the playoffs, nearly going to college at Kansas, why history doesn't appreciate Steve Nash enough, and more (36:03). Finally, the guys close it out with a couple of listener-submitted Life Advice emails (1:09:49). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Quentin Richardson  Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's podcast we're going to talk with critton richardson about the playoffs a little bit but also his playing career and then some fun recruiting stuff deciding to stay at home in depaul over going to kansas tails from the couch, four wide. We're doing all four playing games. And, you know, why the games played out the way they did. And then the big Zion problem. I'm going to finish with that one because that was pretty disappointing. Zion last 48 hours. Feedback and some life advice.

Enjoy. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Tails from the couch, play-in edition. Let's run through it. I could probably look at all four games and go, all right, Oklahoma City won because they are tougher, despite being younger than the Pelicans. Chicago won because Toronto missed a million free throws. Atlanta won because they out-rebounded the Heat. And the Lakers beat Minnesota.

If you want to get into the free throw game with that one, but as much as I love my dude Anthony Edwards, who likely was banged up, him not being him is the reason they lost that game. So let me actually start with that Lakers win. A game that showcased four number one picks in it. Edwards was 3-17, 0-9 on threes. He had a nasty fall.

He had a pretty bad fall not that long ago. But when you watched him in the Pelicans game to close out the regular season, where I talk him up so much and then see this, you're like, okay, so even if he's hurt, there was just certain things that he had taken himself out of the game. You cannot have Torian Prince finishing shot clock possessions off the dribble and expect to win, not technically a playoff game, but a playing game like this. We knew that Gobert was suspended going into it.

No Nas Reid, who was in the conversation, not that he was going to win six man of the year, but that's the kind of year he had. And he gives you a different look. Cat was actually downgraded to doubtful. I can never tell if he's off or not physically, cause he's not exactly like the quickest dude, but he was really good in this game for the most part. So, uh, and then Jalen Noel, who's somebody I actually really like, he was back, but Jane McDaniels is out. So you're looking at the Timberwolves without three of their top seven rotation guys not playing. Minnesota had nine points in the fourth quarter until Conley's three free throws off the corner attempt, where Anthony Davis did foul. It's not like Conley flopped on this one. It wasn't gross. It was just a dumb play by Davis, which he admitted to as much and didn't matter once they ended up winning this whole thing. Timberwolves fans will point to the free throw differential. The second half in overtime, so the last, what, 29 minutes,

the Lakers shot 17, Minnesota shot three, and all three of them were the Conley free throws, which he hit to tie the game. So that's it. I know that the Laker free throws, which he hit to tie the game. So that's it. I know that the Laker free throw differential thing has been a story all season. Part of it is the randomness of it. I'm not a big look at the box score the next day,

my team lost, and hey, we had 10 less free throws. I guess I don't really say we about anybody unless I'm talking about a team from the perspective of the front office. But you get the point. I just don't like going to that to default. There are certain nights where it just sucks. I feel like the Lakers are built a certain way where they're going to attack more

because they don't necessarily have as many shooters. And that was definitely the case going back to the first half of the season before they improved their rotation. Carl Anthony Towns is really good, but he gets dumb fouls. So he can't let himself get into a situation where if he's out of position, just let yourself be out of position. Don't fight back to get in position knowing that you're probably going to cause a problem. least from what I could see, is that his size, especially without the Gobert option, was a major problem. And there were some late possessions too, where if Towns got it on a catch against

Anthony Davis and would try to drive on him, nope, wasn't going to happen. Towns isn't quick enough, first of all. And from a strength standpoint, it looked like Davis was actually the stronger player, despite Towns probably having a few pounds on him. Anthony Davis was the only starter for the Lakers that was actually a plus anything on the box score, and he was a plus nine. The rebounding was plus 11 for the Lakers, and I think Davis also, whether it's him getting the rebounds, I mean, he finished 24 and 15 with three blocks. I know the shooting was okay.

It wasn't great, but the paint efficiency, like plus 11 in the rebounding margins and 54 to 36 points in the paint is just that factor of having somebody big who is a problem, even if he doesn't end up with the stat, meaning the rebound or the putback or getting the free throw line. He had a couple huge threes. You look at the box score at the end of it, it's like, all right, 30 points. He makes the play to Schroeder, who looked like he was going to be hitting the game winner with 1.4 seconds left at the end of regulation. But as we know, it went into overtime. So people really dumped on this game from an aesthetic standpoint. I don't blame you. Again, Minnesota had nine points in the fourth quarter until the Conley free throws.

And then you knew they weren't really going to score. And Finch had said afterwards, like, my guys ran out of gas a little bit. I'm not really sure what he was supposed to do, though, unless he wanted to go with Les McLaughlin, perhaps. You know, Alexander Walker, potentially, although Gnaw is the worst nickname in the NBA right now. I think that's my submission for it. So, you know, when Anthony Davis, excuse me, when Anthony Edwards

isn't attacking at all and is moving the basketball against double teams, which sometimes he made the right play where he would swing it. It was the hockey pass. It would lead to an open three. But there was one play in particular towards the end of regulation where he got the switch on the left side at the break against Anthony Davis. And Cat at that point is positioned against a smaller player in the switch. So it's like, all right, we'll run something where you get a switch here and you get Towns against a smaller player. And if you do that though, Towns has to either get in a better position

or Edwards has to bring Davis away so it's not as easy to help. And Edwards didn't even do that. It was very clear in this play, like, all right, you're not confident right now. You probably don't want to shoot it. It hasn't looked like you want to shoot it now for a while. You're probably not going to even try to take him off the dribble because help is coming, but if help's coming and you can read it, then maybe you can get it to the corner,

but you can't have Anthony Davis so close to help Towns off of you on the switch. And Edwards just didn't really even know what to do in the possession. He just dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, and I think he ended up taking a flat three that he ended up missing. So that was just a major, major problem for this entire thing. And you've got to wonder what he's going to look like in the next play-in game. D'Angelo Russell played 24 minutes. He was one and nine with two points. He basically was benched from 5.59 in the third quarter on. Rui came in for him and that was basically it. He was brought in as, I think, a decoy in a late possession, maybe even a couple

times, 19 seconds left in overtime. And there might've been one other time too. Uh, he was done. I would say this about the handful of regular season players that we know are super talented. And my D'Angelo Russell thing is really that he's actually incredibly talented, but because he's so talented, it makes it way more dangerous because he knows how talented he is. And he actually screws up a lot of stuff you're trying to do. Um, there is a level that you need to bring your intensity up to in these games. And there's a list of players that I feel like do not understand that still. And not like Russell's career is loaded with big time playoff games. But that was part of the problem.

Look, he's going to have a game in the playoffs. He's probably going to hit a million threes and get 30. It's about all the other little stuff that he does. Boxing out, getting back in transition. If you're the other guard and your guard is shooting, making sure you're the person's back, you're going to fight over screens. Are you going to fight over screens even more intensely later in the game? When you're talking about communication on defense,

is there any communication? Communication is not saying after you switch to the wrong guy and then pointing after they score, what did you do? That's not really communication. Communication is not saying after you switch to the wrong guy and then pointing after they score, what did you do? That's not really communication. I always feel like those plays are the offensive line of an NBA game. We can see the quarterback do something great. We can see a receiver make a great play. We can see a great tackle, interception, sack, all that kind of stuff. But the stuff that we don't notice that makes the rest of it go and why you'll look at some players and be like, man, how come this guy scores so many points and the team loses all the time? Sometimes that player is awesome and

the talent around him sucks. And for other players, it's like, yeah, I know he scores a lot, but there's just other stuff that you need to step your game up to. And look, he just missed a ton of shots. So who knows? And like I said, he's so good as far as a shooter and a playmaker. He's probably going to have a huge statistical night here or there against Memphis, but it is something worth monitoring. The Lakers now, since the trade deadline, are number two defensively. I think that showed up. It's really great the Lakers can actually fall back on defense when they need it.

Rudy's going to be back for the OKC game. You've got to hope Edwards looks a lot better health-wise, and we know his shoulder was taped up there, so I'm not trying to be too tough on him here, but I'll tell you, for people that were just tuning in going, why do you guys talk about this dude so much? Watch the Pelicans game. The Lakers closing group in this one,

Anthony Davis, LeBron, Rui, Dennis, and Austin Reeves. That's a lot of size. It really is. And that's without the Vando option. And now the Lakers have four days off. Sunday's game one at Memphis. Lakers have the season series 2-1. LeBron only played one game.

Anthony Davis played in two of them. Westbrook's actually the team's leading scorer against them, but he only played one for 29 points. And Ja missed one. So Minnesota, some work to do here. If Edwards isn't back, if Edwards looks like that again, even with Gobert back in the game against OKC, I wouldn't pick him. I'm going to do all four games here, but let's go to Chicago's win in Toronto. They were down 19.

When Toronto's good, it's good. When you watch them rolling and all their size and their depth and their worst player that's playing is still pretty good. And when they're up big, you're like, wait, this team's good. What is their problem? Well, we know that the half court, there's some numbers there that tell you they're just not great on the points. It's not per possession or it's their points per possession are really bad. And there's another half court number, which makes them kind of average, but there's one that's pretty bad. So anyway, it was almost like Chicago forgot that Toronto's really long. It was maddening watching Chicago try to drive and kick or passes through the paint and they

were getting deflected all the time. Toronto system and the way that they use their guards and how good OG and Anobi is defensively and that Barnes is a ton of size on you. They just get a lot of deflections. I think Van Vliet may have actually been number one in deflections, even though you wouldn't exactly think of him as like a primary stopper on defense and any of that stuff. But when you're watching it go and they're up big on Chicago and look, when a team is up 20 and the other one's down 20, no one goes, you know who actually looks really good though is the team down 20. So Toronto with Siakam. At one point, Caruso was the primary defender.

It was something I kept thinking about throughout the entire game. We'll get some thoughts on that. Because if you have Patrick Williams, what are you doing with Caruso against Siakam the entire time? But my guess would be that they figured if there was a Van Vliet-Siakam pick-and-roll game, nobody would want to then switch into Caruso if you're Van Vliet because Caruso is arguably as good as anybody as a guard this year defensively so I was thinking that might have been part of it but I felt like there's just too many possessions where Patrick Williams was on Trent which you know when I've watched Patrick Williams play this year and one of the things I liked about maybe the future of Chicago or just anything one of the

reasons I didn't like Chicago in the past, and they had a good record last year, even though they fell apart after the weather, like 30 and 10, uh, they, that actually might not be accurate that the record was that good, but,

uh, I didn't feel like they had a big wing to match up with the other big wings in the East. So as I've seen him develop and how hard he really plays, which is very true. And there's been a, you know, tick of improvement offensively, just from a confidence level.

I was like, okay, so why is he getting stuck on Trent so much? All right. So Siakam at one point gets Drummond in a switch where I don't know how much you'd expect to see from Drummond in another game here. He gets a post up against Patrick Beverly. There were some Beverly minutes there too in the first half where I was like, what's the plan here?

Because if Beverly's not a threat whatsoever offensively, is it worth it in this kind of game? Although Beverly did, I think, play better in the second half. So he gets Pat Bev. He gets a drive against the primary defender, Caruso. He gets a jumper in the corner where Vooch is trying to get past the screen to close out in the corner. He gets a jumper in the corner where Vooch is trying to get past the screen

to close out in the corner. He gets a turnaround against Kobe White. And you're like, this guy's killing everybody right now. And that was after Van Vliet got off to a really good start. So as you're watching this all go down and Toronto's up, they look like they're in control of it. Levine looks like he's out of it again. I'm like, here we go.

DeRozan's frustrated on the bench. I've already mentioned the Patrick Williams stuff and how they used him. And I'm not even saying that it was necessarily wrong. It was just something I was kind of looking at there, and I think it had something to do with the switching. But Van Vliet hit seven threes. Van Vliet was looking for Levine a lot in this game

to try to switch into him. And so as I run through all of this, it's very simple if you're a Raptors fan to be like, well, wait a minute. Stop talking about it. Like there's one reason and one reason only and that's because Toronto went 18 to 36 in the free throw line that is true and that's probably your answer but it'd be very dismissive of who Zach Levine was in the third quarter he had 18 and under nine minutes in the third and that's the thing with Levine is like when you watch it just like how

Toronto looks really good when it's really good, like, man, this team's way more talented. What the fuck are they doing in the play-in game? When Levine is this good, why isn't he always this good? I know what the overall numbers are, but Bulls fans, you've watched it. You've watched the nights where he's locked in.

You've watched the nights where there's just a ton of mistakes, where you feel like there's this extra level of locked-in-ness that Levine's just maybe never going to have. And so he takes over in every way imaginable, super aggressive, like almost like he got sick of it, which is awesome, which is what we all want to see all the time. So as this game is closing out, Toronto's missing all their free throws. It did get back a bit. They called it the slots where at the break, the three-point line on the left and right side, Levine and DeRozan would just kind of line up and take turns. And I think for Levine, he's like, wait, I carry our ass here in the third quarter and now DeRozan's going to come back in and he's going to be the primary option in a couple of these big possessions. quarter and now DeRosa is going to come back in and he's going to be the primary option a couple of these big possessions that's what I don't like about their offense is there's way too much turn taking and I'll tell you right now you know who hates it more than maybe me is Zach Levine so

you can see Levine's body language at times where it's like oh DeRosa is going to get going so I'm not like suggesting it's a problem other than it's just predictable and it's clear one guy is cooler with it than the other guy is cooler with it than the other guy is. So we're watching Toronto's offense at the end of the first half and trying to figure out what their go-to is. And it's just not the same. It's just not the same at the end. Like I mentioned, they were trying to attack some of the Levine stuff in a switch. There was a couple of times when it actually was going bad. Chicago was just letting themselves get into terrible switches. Primarily there was one with vucevic where they didn't even fucking

put a screen into the action and van vliet just dribbled to the left and vuce is like all right i guess i'm over here it's like what do you got like these are all the things i'm pointing out of chicago to lose the game uh and they still should have lost you can't miss 18 to 36 free throws at home we know derose and stodd daughter was screaming like crazy in that one I'll admit as I was watching the game at home I'm like what is that what is going on there they're like oh it's DeRozan's daughter and everybody got like real cool but look Toronto fans are a blast so you know normally I'm you know I'm always rooting for those guys so I felt your pain all right the two other games I'm just kind of going here uh Heat Atlanta yeah I'll admit surprised here because Trace history against Miami has not been great. But then when you watch the two teams play, and it does speak to the depth of the league, as I've mentioned with Boston, or excuse me, with Chicago and Toronto, and then Oklahoma City and New Orleans, which we'll get to a little bit later. And then even the other Western game between LA and Minnesota, you're like, God, it's just a lot of good players in this league right now. Uh, and Atlanta has good players,

but there are 500 basketball team. So this could come down to something really simple here and say, well, wait a minute. Atlanta out rebounded the heat 63 to 39. I didn't even think Atlanta was like great in this game. I thought Miami stunk. I thought they missed easy shots,

but they also aren't that good. Okay. Uh, 26 second chance points for the Hawks. Miami's the second worst team in the NBA in the defensive glass. Like I said, I don't know that it was entirely about Atlanta and how great they were going to be. Atlanta was only 10 of 41 from three. They shot 59% on free throws. Trey wasn't great, but he also wasn't ball dominant like nobody else is

doing anything uh it was it was really interesting i noticed something at the end of the first quarter where trey dribbled the ball too long and then threw kind of a bad pass it was a turnover and then i saw him kind of getting into it with an assistant and i was like holy shit that's nate mcmillan's son who's still on the staff. And he kind of like went back at the assistant. Now, granted, Trey, I've never seen anyone get more upset about a call he's about to get in the history of the NBA. He bitches as he's about to get the call. It's the strangest fucking thing ever. it's the strangest fucking thing ever so he was good but Miami was so bad you know we didn't really get like you know what honestly let's do it this way Trey's history was so bad against the

heat this is a great win for him all right and his dribble drive passing playmaking is so fucking good man like I wish there were a way for him to kind of be a little of that, be a little something else, do some of the other things. They try to get him off the ball more with DeJounte. I would say that part's been a failure. They basically have to start them together and then split them up until they close again. In some cases with the Chris Paul and James Harden thing,

it kind of worked with Atlanta season totals wise. I would say that it didn't, even though there's times where DeJounte, I think I like DeJounte more now than ever as a player. Capella was incredible on the boards. They have the Okongwu option. Bam was a no-show in the first half. Kyle Lowry saved their ass, sort of, but not enough because I can't say it saved him when it didn't really feel like

they were going to win this game. And Jimmy Butler, who I counted five bullshit fouls. It's my own method of counting them. That's 10 free throws. In the Chicago-Miami matchup, if you're Chicago, you have to tell all your players on defense when Butler goes into his jump stop near the rim in that restricted area, do not go for the first move. It is his absolute go-to.

It's what added to probably the most efficient season he's ever had in his entire career. But there's just a talent gap between these two teams. Miami's 27th three-point shooting, Atlanta's 10th. Both get to the free throw line about the same amount of time, which is only about 20th in the league. But because of the rebounding stuff, Atlanta averages a bunch more attempts per game. So Atlanta's offense finished 7th, Miami's finished 25th. So there's a few other things baked into that too and why they're better. So there's a few other things baked into that, too, and why they're better. But the talent gap was significant. I mean, Kevin Love started 17 of 21 games, couldn't play in this game three minutes. Oladipo, oh, here we go, 30 against the Wizards on April 7th, played nine minutes.

Duncan Robinson, $60 million to go on that contract. DNP, he was kind of like in the mid-plus 20 minutes per game, game the first two post seasons of his career. He was completely out of rotations last playoff season 12 minutes per game over the three series so when I look at the talent gap going into it history told me Miami figures out a way to stop the Trey Young thing. He gets

frustrated whatever. They destroyed him on the boards and they weren't again I cannot emphasize this enough. It wasn't like Atlanta smoked them. It's like, man, what are you going to do with this Hawks team? It was Miami being awful and Capella being awesome and dominating the boards. But I cannot express this enough, depending because if Miami beat Chicago at home and gets into the playoffs, I don't know. I just feel like a lot of people haven't watched the heat because if you're afraid of them, I think you're afraid of ghosts because this is not the team, the tough, like Lowry went

off for them and they still lost this game. Okay. Last one. Maybe the most fun game out of all of them, and that's Oklahoma City's win against New Orleans. So the defensive plan here for the Pelicans was to sell out against SGA in the first half. He only had seven points in the first half, which was a season low for the first half. Herb Jones is my fucking hero. What he did with SGA harassing him,

whether he had the ball or not, the off-the-ball stuff where SGA didn't have the ball, face-guarding him just straight up in his jersey for an entire first half. And to SGA's credit, the thing I do love about him, and there's a lot of things you can talk about with him that you love, although some of the free throws, kind of bullshit.

He's very patient. He was patient, and his patience was rewarded because Lou Dort turned into fucking game seven thunder rockets, Lou Dort. And then Giddy went off and his total stat line was a career high 31, nine boards, 10 assists. And Giddy is basically, he'd be a point guard on most NBA teams.

He would have the ball in his hands. We know the shooting isn't there yet, but he's so big. If you haven't really watched him, because I know how this works, watch the next time Giddy's standing next to the opposing team's center. You're like, wait a minute, what's going on there? I think there was a game against the Bulls where he was next to Vooch and I go, he's actually, Vooch is a huge dude. And then you're expecting Giddey as the scar to be small. He's huge. He's fucking huge. Speaking of the Pelicans, we'll get to Zion here in a second.

The one time I saw like Edwards in that matchup with Zion, and you saw Edwards who's really put together next to Zion, you're like, my God, look how big Zion is, right? So Giddey has that to him. I know there's some mistakes there at the end, but the point of this is, is for OKC to not get anything from their all-NBA player in SGA and Herb Jones and all this length and the intensity. They got 32 combined from Dort and Giddey in the first half. Early in the game, it looked like the Valanciunas size thing was going to be a problem.

He had a decent game. Jalen Williams, not the one from Santa Clara, the one from Arkansas, who I knew when I did his draft tape, I couldn't stand because of all the bullshit charges. But he's a really smart player, even though he missed a million threes. I think he missed his first six. He hit a huge one of his seventh attempt. He also had a weird Isaiah Joe to Jalen Williams two-man game. Woo pig, where I wasn't expecting to see that in a play-in game. And then it was a running fucking hook shot,

Magic Johnson against the Celtics style or Bob Rosillo against his son in the driveway for about two years. So that was a bit surprising offensively. So the reason I want to get back to the patience and the love here for SGA is that he didn't force it. Herb Jones is that good defensively. And I'll admit, too, as somebody who has a vote, all defensive teams this year overall,

I think I watch a lot. Even I get done with it going, have I done enough? Am I totally locked in to what everybody's doing, whether it's on the ball or off the ball and looking at the stats and all this kind of stuff? Because Herb Jones, what he did and how he stepped up against Sga was incredible all right let's get back to the point of the thunder winning this game um because once sga knew he knew a couple

things i don't know if herb jones can keep up this intensity and the second i get a break from him i'm attacking and that's what he did um and then he even ended up getting hurt a couple times. But he had 25 in the second half. He had 10 points in the third quarter. This is... Let's see here. This is the 40th time SGA has had 10 or more points in the third quarter this season. And then the drive left floater that he hit with 28 seconds left

to give them the lead 115 114 is essentially kind of your game winner and all these young dudes by the way in these huge spots made all of their free throws at the other end for the pelicans ingram got it going i thought lou dort was getting away with i wouldn't call it a felony but it was it was up there he was fucking working ingram and this is the next level of stuff. I thought Ingram was pretty good. He needed to be great. CJ needed to be good, and he wasn't.

And even though the Valanciunas size advantage, which Dagnall admitted, he goes, we're kind of giving up something there. I love that he was so revealing. He was telling us, I'm sacrificing the size part of this. They don't really have the options. It's Jalen Williams or Sarich.

They just don't have that kind of size, and that's why for them against Denver, I wanted to sit here and say, I bet you OKC gets two of these games just because their effort, toughness, and smarts alone. But knowing they're going to be going to Denver, and I just don't know. Jalen Williams can try to harass Jokic as much as he can.

It'll be kind of the same thing that we saw in this game last night. It might look good the first few minutes. Maybe it even looks good for half where Jokic isn't necessarily even taking a ton of shots, but for him, he doesn't even need to take any shots to control the basketball game. So I'm just kind of thinking ahead to what that matchup is going to look like a little bit if they beat Minnesota, if they beat the Timberwolves. So let's not get ahead of ourselves here um but it was just kind of it was just i was just so impressive from a young basketball team here where it all kind of leads back to like the zion problem for for the pelicans who are now out again so okc has 15 picks in the next five years at least. And yet they have four guys right now. They've got SGA, they've got Giddy, they've got Jalen Williams, who's going to probably finish

second or third and rookie of the year. And I would include Chet as that fourth guy because it would be silly to write him off. And then that's with a couple other options and some role guys, Dort, Williams, Usman Jang, potentially. There's some role options. The craziest part about all of these picks is that if it were a different franchise in a different location, they could maybe then package the picks for a player and then go, cool, we did it. And we're adding this awesome max player to this group that we've already established. It's going to be terrific. OKC can't necessarily operate that way right um because they're they know they would never really be the likely destination for the mad guy who wants out well likely is like 100

like hey i've fucking had it here in brooklyn send me to the thunder that's not going to happen all right uh they could overpay they could also do like what they did with paul george which feels and had it here in Brooklyn. Send me to the Thunder. That's not going to happen. All right? They could overpay. They could also do like what they did with Paul George, which feels a little Oakland A's back in the day where it's like, oh, this guy, you're going to trade him?

Well, we think he's really good, so we'll take him now, but then maybe we'll flip him for compensation or get some sort of free agency compensation on the way out for him. And that's kind of what

the Thunder did with Paul George. So maybe they could do the two-year disgruntled thing where they take the guy for the year, and then they flip that guy again. I don't know if they're going to get the same thing for Paul George, which, as I reminded Simmons, we can never look at that trade for SGA

and all the picks for Paul George in a vacuum because it guaranteed the Clippers of also getting Kawhi Leonard. But to think how established they already are, their over-under was 23. Yes, they have still some more work to do. I think the other thing that's really interesting is that they got talked about like this team that sucked forever,

and they lost to the Rockets. That was only in 2020. So they had two seasons, 22 wins, 24 wins. They're already at 40 wins and potentially in the 1-8 matchup in the West, and that was not a long rebuild at all, like not even close, but it was just so torn down so quickly.

It felt like it was, they were getting labeled as this group that had, you know, this purgatory vibe to them for way too long. And it's just not true. And they're already out of it. They're already out of it. And yet there's probably 10 guys that are going to replace.

10 might be too much. I don't know. They could maybe just outbid everybody else for a trade, but there's still like seven dudes coming. Let's just say seven. Seven more dudes added to the group, the five to seven are coming for this team. And that's what? Only half of the 15 picks over the next five years.

On the other side, that's less positive. You have the Zion Williamson holding the Pelicans hostage story. I love Jeff Van Gundy. I agree with almost everything he says. I learn something every single night he's on the broadcast. Last night, I disagreed with him. He was trying to be positive,

which might be rare for Jeff, and I liked it. He was like, look, Zion, as we saw him in, I don't know what the fuck that was last night, a hockey jersey, whatever. He said, look, Zion's only played four years, and he's played 114 games, and he used Joel Embiid's weird start to his career as a comp.

Because Embiid, if you remember, missed the first two seasons, played 31 games. At that point, I was like, dude, 31 games, the first three years of your career, not a great start. He played 94 games in his first four years because they were still sort of bringing him along slowly. Now, to counter my point, but also Van Gundy's point here, Zion playing 114 over four years is injury. And apparently here at the close of this season, Zion's choice. Sam Hinckley didn't want Embiid to play. He wanted to keep losing games.

That's why he and then Simmons sat out as long as they did. So it's not the same thing. The problem is that Zion then had media availability, which apparently he's been known to say he wanted to do and then wouldn't do. Now I'm kind of getting why he doesn't do it because he totally fucked it up. Yes, he's a young guy. As I get older, I'm a little bit more. But then again, it's like we're talking about somebody who could be one of the best players in the league. He basically said he was health-wise ready to go, but mentally was still a little hesitant because sometimes he feels it and sometimes he doesn't, but that's basically just on the move

alone. He was cleared three weeks ago. He's been playing three-on-three stuff that's rather intense. He hasn't wanted to do any of the five on five stuff. And from the looks of it, I don't know if it's a cashmere situation. The reason he may not be clear is because he himself isn't in good enough shape. And I don't know if that's him. I don't know if that's just not being active enough and putting on the weight, or I don't know if it's the decisions that he makes that a lot of young guys make that are stupid until they realize later on they're going to start eating better and doing all that shit. So unfortunately for the Pelicans, despite this roster that we all like

and turning it around to close the season, and Ingram playing the best basketball probably of his career, and some of these younger dudes who I think have a real chance to be additions to a good team's rotation, you're held hostage by the Zion thing because it doesn't seem like this guy is wired to get it yet. And we went over all of this last year and then he got his money, which had some protections for the team. But I don't know why if he were cleared three weeks ago, why I didn't think he could at least get ready to suit up for a little bit. And we can talk about trading him the same way the Trey Young rumors came out

right before that game. The Gobert market, which probably doesn't exist, although no contract is untradeable. The irony of Chicago or Toronto going in different directions as we kind of recap all these different teams. The Zion part of this is a lot like, maybe not exactly like, it's not exactly like, because almost nothing is exactly like.

When Anthony Davis was out and he was hurt and he was struggling and the Lakers are like, wait, can we really make this guy the face of the franchise post LeBron, what that money is going to mean? Well, the bet is that you can't, all right? The safe bet is that you can't do that, despite how good Anthony Davis looked in that game and how he's looked since he came back in January right but at least there's something there to a resume the problem is with Anthony Davis when it's at its

worst and you go what's the trade value it's like whatever you were to get back for Anthony Davis and yes you would get something back for him it would not match what you could be with him when he's healthy right that's the dilemma that you would have any time you were bringing this stuff up and wondering if the Lakers should get proactive and move him on the way out. And that's not even counting the LeBron factor where on top of the Lakers turning everything else around, they didn't have to deal with the awful outcome of losing what could have been an insanely high pick if this season didn't bring in some higher guns.

So back to Zion, he doesn't even have the AD resume. And if you're the Pelican engineer, you're like, well, let's see what happens. Let's see what's on the trade market. Somebody would do it clearly. But is what we get back enough that matches what we would be with a healthy Zion because he's that good. And the longer this goes, the more willing you'd probably be able to deal as a front office with whatever those calculations are. Right now, last year was too early. Right now, still may feel too early.

This can't happen another season. It can't happen another season. People work too hard. Your teammates work too hard. And it's pretty clear that him getting back to whatever point he needs to feel to be comfortable has as much to do with him as anything.

And that sucks because it was a fun season for the Pelicans until it wasn't. The NBA playoffs are here, and you can turn crossovers into cash with FanDuel. Just visit FanDuel.com slash Ryan right now and place a $5 bet and you'll get an instant $150 in bonus bets. Win or lose. I kind of liked whoever was going to be playing Minnesota.

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Quentin Richardson from the Knuckleheads podcast, of course, NBA vet. Thanks a lot for doing this, man. I know we ran into each other a while ago. We talked about setting something like this up. It's always funny to me whenever Darius Miles comes up because I was such a huge St. John's fan when I was younger like I actually fell for the idea that that dude was going to go to school for a year um because he was saying he was going to St. John's and then you know you get a little bit older a little bit more information

and be like I don't know if that was ever going to happen so I you and Darius always mean a lot to me because I remember how emotionally attached I was to Darius there for a while as a high school kid. Yeah, I think he actually was going to go there. I think, you know, for most of the season, he intended to do that. But then once he got to the end of the year and all of those All-American games and, you know, the scouts were there, it kind of became like it went from like, I don't know, to like, nah, this is what you got to do. like it went from like i don't know to like nah this is what you got to do because once he got to those went from those games that they said he was top five after that it was a it was a no no brainer yeah he was too good it was one of those things when you're selfish as a fan you're like oh man he was he was awesome again in the showcase he was tight with omar cook so that was his reason

for really wanting to go there they had gotten gotten really tight on the AAU and the camp scenes and stuff like that. So he really wanted to go there. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. That was always the thing. But he was so good in all the showcase stuff. So you were just like this. And he's huge, too.

So it's like, all right, this is over. I want to get to your path a little bit. But let's talk about some of these games so far. Let's start with Atlanta because I hit on it in the open a little bit. I've had a tough time despite Trey Young's talent because I just think it can be tough to play with, and I think this team's kind of heading in a weird direction. As somebody who's an incredibly talented young guy with the ball in his hands,

how have you seen the Trey Young story going here at an early part of his career? I think it's up and down, man. You know, when you're on the outside looking in and you're hearing a lot of things and you, you know, you're hearing this and hearing that, it's kind of tough to say what's really going on. But the one thing you can look at and say, you know, it's been, what is it, two or three coaches that's been gone

and he's the common denominator where people are saying whatever. So, I mean, if, you know, if I'm him, I just put my head down, man, and go to work and go to, you know, when you play well and you help your team win, all of that stuff kind of goes away. But if your team struggles and you got all of this stuff swirling around and you're looking like you're in the center of it, it's kind of tough to kind of detach yourself. But if I'm Trey Young, man, I just get to work this offseason and try to come in as ready as I can, try to stay in sync with Coach Quinn Snyder.

He's a great coach in this league. And I think, you know, you just try to get on the same page with him and that whatever happens organizationally, he can't control that. But as far as like him going home this summer and focusing on coming back and trying to be the best teammate, best leader. You know, he's a he's a max guy. He's the face of that franchise, regardless of what the situation is. And he should be an all star. He should he should take offense to not be an all star this year. And he should come back this summer and go this summer and come back next year ready to show everybody what he really is.

I don't know if it's your own story, your own personal story, or like you think about some of the landing spots, but you know, when younger dudes come in that are this talented, it's like, no, I've got this, I've got this, but you can't ever do it on your own. You just can't ever do it on your own. I actually thought he was pretty good in the Miami game. Um, and he wasn't needed necessarily to do some of that other stuff. Was that something you had to go through with as a younger player? Was there anything that maybe you went through as a vet with another young dude coming up where you were like, we all know you're nasty but like

you can't expect you can't expect to do this on your own nobody does well you know fortunately for me i didn't i wasn't given that situation i came in i was we had three three lottery picks and well three first round picks and i was the lowest of the three you know obviously darius was number three kian went 10 i went 18 so it wasn't that situation so for me it was like i would i i really benefited from having you know a great veteran and sean rooks you know rest in peace and then uh one of our assistant coaches was dennis johnson rest in peace the great you know dennis and dennis johnson and um Dennis Johnson. He was unbelievable for helping me stay sane, I would say, my rookie year. Because when you – up until that point, you know, I had been player of the year, this, that, and the third, and the best guy on every team, you know,

that I was playing on. And you earn what you get, you know what I'm saying? And I felt that I went out in training camp. I had a great camp. I didn't see it where I shouldn't have been, like, not playing at all. And I didn't understand as a rookie that, hey, they're trying to showcase these guys and move different pieces around so that they can clear the way for this talent that we just drafted. I didn't understand it.

All I saw was I was getting DNPs. You know what I'm saying? Coaches and citizens. I had never gotten that before like wait a minute i'm not playing and i'm not hurt nothing's wrong with me i'm sitting here ready to play want to play and like you saying it's this many guys better than me and i'm looking and i'm i'm doing i'm killing these guys in practice right so i didn't understand i was lashing out being a young high-haired kid and dj would always pull me to the side he spoke my

language talk to me and talked trash to me. Like, yo, just sit down and like, listen, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you don't understand what's going on and it's not always for you to be told what's going on. Like, this is a situation where it's going to be explained to you. You just got to, you know, show up and do what you're supposed to do

and just keep your head down and not worry. Like, first of all, that's what you used to always tell me. Like, you the third pick of all these mugs. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't say nothing. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you can't say nothing. Like, you know what I'm saying? I used to have to eat that, but my

pride and my ego looking at it like, like, be my little bro. Like, me and Keon, like, I was right higher than him, you know what I'm saying, coming out and all of this stuff. Like, so I didn't see anything like they, like, everybody else perceiving it. And that was extremely, extremely difficult for me my first couple years.

Was it the Pyakowski minutes? That, I mean, that, yeah, that. It was, I mean, it was Pike played over me. I mean, at times, Corey played over me at times. Tyrone, because it was, Alvin Gentry had been on record for saying it's going to be Taze, that Corey's going to play and Q might and vice versa. Q might play and Corey don't. And for me,

I didn't see that. You know what I'm saying? When you grow up playing against these guys and you're just as good or if not, in your mind, you feel better than these guys. I don't see any days where I'm about to get the DNP. This is something I always think about because none of us can really understand it

unless you're this kind of player with this kind of profile. But you always have just dudes talking to you, right? And I'm sure, especially you being like a city kid too, you get numb to it pretty – you're sizing guys up really quick and being like, what's – so even by the time, what were you, 20? When you get to the league, you're sizing guys up really quick and being like what's what's so even by the time what were you 20 when you get to the league you're probably yeah you're probably so weathered already by this going oh here's an assistant that's going to try to be my buddy here's the guy in the front office going to be my buddy like this shit's been happening to me since i was like

a teenager um or junior high or you know how how is it a like I know Dennis Johnson's resume as a player and then going all right well that was a dude with all these amazing Celtics teams what works what works for the older dude to connect with the younger kid to at least have that level of respect so you can talk to each other like men I think I think everything you know every player is different every situation is different? I think everything, you know, every player is different. Every situation is different. But I think immediately when for most players, you know what I'm saying, when they see that person as a former player, there's an immediate amount of respect for that person because you know what I'm going through on a certain level because you know what it took to

get here and you got here and you did this before. So from that, from that right there, there's going to be a certain level of respect that the other people that didn't get to that level, they'll never receive. And you can only understand it when you, when you were actually in it, like as an NBA player and now as a former NBA player, I see, you know what I'm saying? When I was in the Detroit front office and when I was a director of player development in Detroit, the level of respect I got because I was a former player, you know what I'm saying, when I was in the Detroit front office and when I was a director of player development in Detroit,

the level of respect I got because I was a former player. You know what I'm saying? And like you say, me coming in as a rookie, I knew Dennis Johnson. DJ stole the ball. Like, this is the great Dennis Johnson who, you know what I'm saying, played with Bird, won championships. And then when I talked to him, you're a regular dude. You're a great dude.

And it's like, okay, like immediately I can respect you because what you've done and what you've been here already. You've done way more things than I could dream of in this space. And so I got that ultimate respect for you. But when you come and you humble yourself and you talk to him, like you're not talking down. Like DJ never talked down to us and acted like it was this or he was, you know what I'm saying?

He was, obviously he was coming from a place that I know better than y'all, but he still came from a humble, cool place where we could respect it. And I think that was the approach I always tried to take. And I think that's what it takes. Like when you see a Udonis Haslam, you know what I'm saying?

Like UD is the ultimate OG, but I think if you talk to any of those players that he's mentored or helped come up, like, yeah, there's going to be times that UD, he going to get in their ass and he'll get on their ass. But at the same time, before he ever got to that point to where he doing that, he humbled himself and he showed the human side of him

and he put himself next to them guys and got that trust before he started just pounding away on people. You got to, like, earn that trust and that respect from somebody before you just go in and get what a lot of people see as the finish result. They don't see them practice days, the training camps, the offseason when UD is in there. He's 18, 19, 17 years, and he's in the offseason doing these things with these guys. I've seen him working out with Bam and different guys.

Guys that late in their career don't do that. That's him putting in that work and that equity and earning that trust where he can go out there and flash out on the sideline on somebody and they're going to respect it and not do nothing because they don't see all of that work that's been put in through that. Do you still root for the Bulls?

You had to be a huge Bulls fan growing up right huge of course yeah right of course like just making sure just there's always like a weird kid absolutely oh no absolutely but i mean i think that immediately stopped as soon as i got drafted that was over with it really was kind of over with when i got to college like as soon as mike left it was like like you know i'm still in chicago at deep pause. Like, yeah, go Bulls. But I was like, whatever. I knew I was, but I was getting ready. I'm looking at guys now I'm sizing, you know, I knew I was about to be there. So like, well, it's different.

Once you get there and like, I didn't, it was for me, I didn't want to play for the Bulls. Like I didn't, I didn't want to desire to get drafted by the Bulls because I felt like that would be a lot for me. I just came from college. I felt I needed to get away from Chicago for a little bit. So for me, as soon as I got to the league, I was like, oh, no, that's the opponent. So it didn't matter.

I loved what we saw from Levine last night in that third quarter, man. Yeah. And it is like when he's going, you're like, damn. Why do you think the team isn't overall better, though, than, you know, they this is a team when you look at it, the East is obviously better these last couple of years, especially at the top. But, you know, I would argue between Toronto and Chicago at times. I'm like, I can't believe both these teams are in the plan. Yeah, I think with Chicago, man, that thatzo Ball injury really, really, really hurt, man. I think he makes, I mean, I think they obviously, they retooled and they got it situated.

You know, P-Bev come over, I think was a huge, huge plus for the team. It's going to help along the way. But I think, you know, initially throughout the season, that was the big, you know, Caruso was hurt. I felt like those two, man, the impact that they have on the ball in the backcourt and any backcourt, you know, Caruso was hurt. I felt like those two, man, the impact that they have on the ball in the backcourt and any backcourt, you know, when those two, I watched them play here in Orlando, you know, I do broadcasts for them and I watched them in person last year here. And I was like, oh my goodness, like those two dudes were straight dogs. And you see the impact that they have on pace, on defense and everything

and I think that impacted the Bulls in a major way earlier in the season and they didn't really get a chance to retool until probably at the trade deadline when they made some of the moves and then picking up Pat Bev and I think now

they're going to be having a chance to be okay still with the core of Zach and DeMar. And then, you know, adding Pat Beavis. They could keep him there. And then, I like Vooch there, man. I'm a big Voochie fan, man. He was here in Orlando for a long time.

I got to see him up close and personal. I know how good he is and what he brings. And I think when you guys can be all the way, I think that's the biggest thing, man. It was a lot of bad injuries. Me and my friends always say, man, we need to turn injuries off. Like on a video game,

go to the settings and just turn injuries off. Man, this is whack. And I think that was a big part of why the Bulls were up and down this year. Who did you have picking? Well, I don't care about the beginning of the year. Now with the playoffs, for the most part, set, who did you have winning the West?

Man, you got to respect Denver, man. They've done it, and I think they've become more healthy along the way. I think that's a big part of it, having Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal Murray back in the rotation and obviously the other pieces they picked up along the way. But I think you got to respect them, but I still have a high amount of respect for Golden State and then Phoenix. Those are like my three, but then my dark horses.

It's a Clippers. You see I got my jersey behind me. They like forever my first team, but the PG injury hurts me because I feel like I don't know what to really expect if they don't have him. Like, if they had him and they flew a compliment, I would be very confident. I would probably be picking a Clippers to win it.

But just with that injury, I don't know when and how he's going to be able to come back and what he's gonna look like but um i guess if you're asking me to say somebody i'm gonna have to say i'm gonna go i'm gonna go out on the limb and say uh go go with phoenix man i think it like what what they've been able to you know obviously it's been a super super small sample size but i think He's been a super, super small sample size, but I think KD healthy is the best player in the world. And, you know, with D book and Aiden and CP, I think, I think, you know, obviously they're not as deep as you would like,

but I think they're going to be, be a tough out in seven games. I want to go back to your Phoenix year because I was reading something you wrote years ago, which is, was really cool in the players tribune and it feels like the nba world has gone back and wanted to do a revote on the nash mvps and i don't know if that's because yokich was getting so much run lately and and some of this like if you watch nash we get it he didn't score as much as some of the other dudes he honestly if he played today and wanted to shoot more, he would score 30. He was that good of a shooter. He absolutely was.

But as somebody who played with him and knows, as you know, you're watching, but he's in control of everything that's happening here. What's your do you get defensive about Nash knowing what it was like in that one year in Phoenix for you? Yeah, especially my one year. See, when people go and say certain things, you got to take and think about the whole story. We were projected to finish last in our division coming into that year. We were projected to not make the playoffs. We were projected to not make the playoffs. We were projected to, you know what I'm saying, not do anything.

Also, Stevie was leaving Dallas because they said he was washed. His back was hurt. He didn't have anything left, blah, blah, blah. These are all narratives going into that season. They saying Stevie, like, basically washed. And we had Mark Cuban on the show, and he even said it. Like, that was one of his biggest mistakes, you know what I'm saying? Like, the doctors said this, they were saying this and that,

and his back wouldn't hold up. But forget about all the narratives. Like I said, we were supposed to finish last. We basically came and came and played a style of basketball that hadn't been played. We played whatever, small ball. And everything was like, I'll say this, like people always ask me, like, how are you?

Everything was able to work with that team because of Steve Nash, right? I'll say to Steve Nash and Sean Mary, without them two, like, you can't play like that. Not the way we did. If you go back and look, people say, oh, they don't play. We play defense.

You know what I'm saying? We play defense when it matters. And it was because of Sean Marion that we were able to do that. But with Steve, they were mad. If you go look at his numbers, everything went up. And then he managed to, like, take a team that was not supposed to – that we were supposed to finish last. We finished the number one team in the entire league.

We went 62-20 that year. And that's, like, out of nowhere. So that's where the, and when you ask why, it was because Steve Nash, Steve, he missed like a four, he went on like a four game streak where he missed and we lost like three out

of the four games. That was all he missed. Like the whole season was like four or five games or something. I remember the first time, like I'd heard the story about it where you know d'antoni was basically the most positive person about the overall approach i'm not talking about day-to-day obviously i don't i don't get it or understand it that way but i remember his philosophy on something being like no no shoot more no take the shot don't ever look back at the bench don't think like you took eight threes a game back then oh yeah back then i had games where i shot 17 18 attempts of some three that

that year yeah i had individual games where i got up 17 18 of them and no you i mean like that was the thing i think if you if you go and anybody that has the time, you know how we got guys that love stats and all. If you go and you go look at guys before they were playing for Coach D'Antoni and when they played, whether it was one year, two years, go look at the differences between their scoring, their shooting percentages, and all of their offensive stuff when they played for Coach D'Antoni as opposed to anywhere else. You got a few guys that'll be like some anomalies, like, because I know Maul didn't like it when he played, when he coached in Detroit, I mean, in New York,

Jamal Crawford, because he was used to a certain type of, you know, getting the ball and being able to, you know, do his thing. And it was kind of like the ball was moving too much for him to really do his thing. But most guys, you go look at their percentages, I promise you. I promise you, they all are up. The confidence is up. Like, in practice, we shoot. Like, I shot as far as, like, being on a team and being in practice

and actually, like, shooting. Like, doing different shooting drills competing against your shooting player like I've never in all of my career shot more than when I played for coach D'Antoni that was both times in the one year in Phoenix and when he coached in New York never shot more shots in practice ever than when I played for coach D'Antoni. Yeah that's everything I'd always heard about it is that one, it was almost like a philosophical thing. We are going to be so positive. We are going to be supportive.

We don't want you thinking about shot selection. When you are open, we want you to shoot it. And it's the same thing for Marion as you is that it was like all of a sudden it's this spike because it's just amazing as a player to go, I don't have to, I'm never going to have to like worry about shooting it too much. And the fact that you have somebody in Nash who I still, like I said, should have taken

more shots with how good he was, but that he was okay. Like his basketball approach was okay to defer. And I can't help but laugh a little bit. Like, I'm not going to say anything negative about Jamal Crawford, but like any player that would be like, now the ball's moving too much. This isn't for me. It's like, well, I know you can work everybody off the dribble. Well, it wasn't that it was because Ma had been used to having more,

you know what I'm saying? We had played for Coach Brown, Coach Zeke, Coach Tom. It was more structure, I would say. Like, the thing about Coach D's offense is, like, he'll... We could drop a player in the huddle and he'll say, like, all right, like, hey, this is what we want to do. He'll be like, hey, if you get a rebound, you go, just go. Like, you know what I'm saying?

And it's like, for some people, it's like, well, wait a minute. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what are we doing? Because it's like, when you say, hey, if you get the rebound, you just go. Like, that's what you see a lot of times. You see, boom, rebound. One pass up the court, boom, boom, boom, shot. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

The play was like, we might not get to the play for three plays sometimes. And so, for some people, like, for Ma, he was like, it's like chaos. Like, what are we doing? Like, anybody could, you know what I'm saying? Anybody could do anything. And, like, that was, like, crazy. You know what I'm saying? And that was crazy. If you think about Coach G's team,

like you said, he's not going to tell such and such. Don't shoot. Anybody could shoot. Anybody could take that thing and boom, boom, boom, and get to that move. But it's not like you've never really seen. If somebody just do something totally egregious, obviously Coach will say something. But that's not really his thing. He's not going to get on you about

none of that stuff, about shooting, about you know what I'm saying? Like if you come down, you jack up four or five just straight like, that's not really his thing. He's not going to get on you about none of that stuff, about shooting, about, you know what I'm saying? Like, if you come down, you jack up four or five just straight subs, he's going to be like, he's going to snatch you out of the game like any real coach would do. But like, for the most part, like you said, he's not going to be over there. He's not one of them coaches where you shoot something and you glance and he

over there dropping the clipboard or MSing you or none of that. Like, he, you know, Coach D was too cool. I want to get to the Paul part of this because I know you've talked about Pierce. Paul Pierce hosted you at Kansas, right? Yeah, yep. Him and Ray for the French, yep.

No kidding. So what, was Kansas the second option for you? Yes. So were you the second option for you? Yes. Were you ever going to get – was it Monday and you're headed back to Chicago being like, I'm coming back here, and then it wears off a little bit? Where were you on the DePaul-Kansas thing? I've said this before. So the one thing before we did anything, before we went on any visits

and all that, when we started out, we sat down, you know, my coaches and my family, we all sat down and we agreed that, like, hey, no matter what's going on, how we feeling, we never going to commit or make any commitments on a visit. We going to always, you know, come back home, clear our head, and then evaluate. So that's basically what stopped me from coming. Like, when I went to Kansas, like, you got to think,

I went to Midnight Madness. It was late night with Roy. Roy Williams was the head coach then. So it was me, Joel Prisbella, Jeff Boshi, and Jerron Rush. on the visit like you know i'm saying this is allen uh fog field house we going that joint on midnight madness and you think you going there and they doing the whole rock chalk j-hawk all that stuff they say ku they say q rich i was in there like oh lord it's going crazy and then just to be there for that whole experience like yo this was like you know i'm from chicago i ain't really been to a college town to where everywhere you go it's all about kansas j-hawks gee like i'm with paul and rafe and they was like celebrities they were like nba players and you know i'm saying down there so i'm like man so i remember sitting with roy before i was about to leave to go home. Roy, like, you know, he asked me to go to the postcard and find out what's what, like, how you feeling.

I'm like, I remember telling him. I'm like, man, I remember saying, I'm like, like, he's like, if you had to give me a percentage or something, like, because I told him, I'm like, man, I can't, you know, I can't do the commitment. We do it. He's like, man, I'm like, I probably said, I'm like, 90-something percent. I could remember saying something like that, like, before I'm here.

All right. And then, like, you know what I'm like 90 something percent. I could remember saying something like that, like before I'm being all right. And then like, you know what I'm saying? When I got to the crib, it was like, you know, all of that kind of wear off. You kind of collect yourself.

So then it's like my whole thing with what separated the two, it was deep parlor, it was Kansas. Like for me, I was real tight knit with my family. My brother had just came out from the Navy. You know what I'm saying? You know, I wanted my family to be able to come to most of my games and not all.

And, like, DePaul provided that. Obviously, I met in Chicago for home games. But, like, where we played, my family could basically drive almost everywhere. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, you know what I'm saying? That's like a no-brainer. It provided everything.

Because, like, people thought, like, oh, you didn't want to go. I knew that Paul was out of there. You know what I'm saying? That's like a no brainer provided everything. Cause like people thought like, oh, you didn't want to go. I knew that Paul was out of there. You know what I'm saying? And I was like, it was going to be the same position. Like I wasn't scared to go. Like my, my, my top five was Arizona, Kentucky. You know what I'm saying? Uh, the Yukon.

Like it wasn't like I was trying to hide from like going to a big school. It was like, nah, I just – this just provides something that nobody else does in this position because I didn't want to go to the Big Ten. At that time, the Big Ten was, like, slow and big dudes and all of that stuff, just like kind of – I felt like Conference USA provided more running of the day. They had Cincinnati, St. Louis, Marquette teams. It was kind of more so playing how I wanted to play. So I was like, man, look, I knew, and I was the last one to commit.

Bobby had already committed. Lance, like, if I committed, I knew this was going to take us to the number one recruiting class, and we was going to have a chance. And Pat Kennedy was already lining teams up. Like, my freshman year, we played Duke at the United Center. So I knew, you know what I'm saying? And that was the thing about Coach Kennedy. He could paint that picture for you, boy.

And that's what he – basically, I'm not going to lie. What he told me, that came true. He was like, you are from Chicago. You are a Chicago public school student. He was like, the city loves you. He was like, it's going to be no different when you come here. You're going to come right in, and you're going to come right in and you're going to be the guy. You're going to be the cornerstone.

You're going to be able to do, you're going to be as good as you want to be, as hard as you want to work and however hard as you want to take it. And he told me, you'll be able to leave after your first year. You'll be able to do everything you want to do right here in front of your family and your own city. And like, when I went, I could, like you see right there, well right here the espn cup like i can remember that being up at the espn zone downtown and me going down there

with my family taking pictures eating at the restaurant and just being like yeah like i felt like my that year i was the man i felt like mj had retired it was sammy so so then it was me that was what i felt like that year. He was doing the home run competition with McGuire that year. So like, that was like the biggest thing. You remember that? So I feel like it was, it was Sammy Sosa.

Then it was me in the city. I have two more things then, because when I read the snow shoveling story, I was like, maybe he should have gone to Kansas. That would have made me want to transfer. You beat Kenyon Martin. You beat Cincinnati.

It's a day game. There was a snowstorm. And because you were so close, your dad was like, you're going to come back and shovel. Can you tell us that one? Man, listen, they were ranked like number two. Number two at the time i got the tip in the like the go ahead bucket the score get like the whole carried off the the whole arena going crazy and then it was like yeah you know all of that was great we shake it i found it was hype and everything too and then it was kind of like you know i all of that was great. I found he was hyped and everything, too.

And then it was kind of like, you know, I go get dressed and everything. We stand there talking about going to eat. He's like, yeah, man, you still going? So I was like, yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? Because it was a day game and there was a snowstorm. It was a day game. And so, you know, it was like, all right, like, whatever. I still had time. My rationality was like, I still had the park but like i i i stayed shooting to the south side coming back you know what i'm saying and then the other thing i would always like my

best friend cordell henry he was a point guard for market i would shoot up the market come back and you know so like for me it was it was the best you know i said i was cool with the depot um i love that story and that your neighbor saw you shoveling. Yeah, one of my homeboys was coming from the little corner store and was looking, did a double take. He was like, he just, it was funny because he looked,

he looked, he did, he looked, he's like, come on, Mr. Richardson, like, come on. Because like, it's like all of my, everybody, they knew, they knew how my paws moved. They knew what it was.

He's like, nah, Mr. Richardson don't play that. Like, that was like worse. So it was like, when he They knew what it was. They were like, nah, Mr. Richardson don't play that. That was worse. When he saw me, he was like, bro, nah, bro, come on, Mr. Richardson. He was like, I just knocked off number two, though,

bro. I watched you on national TV. For real. That's what it is. I'm still about to shoot back to the campus, though. I'm not staying here. That's the campus though i'm not staying here that's for sure yeah uh knuckleheads is out every week you're doing extra stuff too with the playoffs going live you know the player staffing stuff you're working with orlando now so i catch all the time i love watching that team i love watching them but who yes yeah who have you and Darius had on that?

I guess I'm asking a simpler version or maybe a complicated version of something simple like who's been the best. Was there a moment where you were surprised? Where you learned about a player that you knew about but you didn't know him? Because the interviews are great. You guys were kind of at the forefront of a lot of this stuff with the former

players pumping out great content. That's the one thing that me and D sit back and we talk about that we get you know that we enjoy like it's like everybody that we sit down with we walk away like damn i didn't i never knew that like you know what i'm saying it's always it's always something that somebody like whether i'm talking about people that we know you know generally well it's like yeah i never know that you know what i'm saying it's like that that's pretty big that that's what be interesting to me for like you know to say which one is like literally every single one every like i'm sitting down with d-wave i was looking like what i never knew that like you know what i'm saying i know d-wave i know you know i'm saying different dudes that we've had on it was like damn like i feel

like every time i think that's the that's one of the biggest joys for me. But I think when you say, like, which one, it's hard for me, you know, both of us say this, it's hard for us to say which one was our favorite one or which one was the best one. But I think the one that, you know, that sticks out the most, and that's just for obvious reasons, is Kobe. You know what I'm saying? It was like it wasn't long before he passed

that we sat with him and got a chance to chop it up with him. And like you say, like, Kobe one of them dudes, it's like, you know, and, you know, it's not a lot of people that could say, hey, I know Kobe or I hang with Kobe or whatever like that. So it's like we didn't know Kobe. We knew Kobe from competing against him. We knew him from, you know from being on the court in the basketball

since. Never spent time with him off the court or had real conversations like that. So that episode, for us to get a chance, just the whole everything of it, like getting there in the morning down to his compound in Newport and being able to chop it up with him while everything is getting set up

and all of that and just sharing that time and just, like I said, that's the only time we ever had a chance to talk to him where it's like we not you know saying in competitive mode or engaged or like about to go to battle with each other at some point so it was like the first and only time he got a chance to really talk about you know chop it up with us and say like he was he was real comfortable like he know he could dissect my game break down what D was doing. And it was like, you know, that was for us. Like, I don't care who you are.

When you compete and when you play in a sport or whatever, like when you playing, there's whoever's the guy. Whether, you know, it's always a guy. You know what I'm saying? And Kobe was that guy. And whenever we played against him, he was the measuring stick. So we wanted to bring it. We wanted the guy to know

that like we coming like you know saying and acknowledge us and so to get that acknowledgement you know saying even did because that's how our generation was you never get that acknowledgement while we were playing for many of us you know saying it was always going to be after the fact and so for us to get that interview and to sit down with him and you know saying chop it up and to hear him you know saying we get to share with him how we felt about him and his game and different things that he did and how he was moving and then just for him to sit there and acknowledge like hey i know this and i knew this about y'all and see like okay that means like okay like the guy who we considered the guy of our time like he he he saw us he respected what we was doing. Well, I enjoy it. I'm

happy for you, and I really appreciate the time we finally got here to catch up, man. Thanks a lot, Q. Yes, sir, man. No doubt. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life Advice, the email address is lifeadvicerr

at gmail.com. A lot for you in this pod so far today. I want to check in with Kyle. How's it going? What's pod so far today i want to check in with uh kyle how's it going uh what's up buddy i pulled the muscle of my back on the treadmill uh on monday and it's pretty much it's still in the morning so it's been getting slowly better throughout the day and usually by like three or four o'clock i'm like yeah i could probably hit the bar but uh this morning i'm like just like every morning i'm like uh i'm just doing a lot of swearing and tense breathing.

But it gets better throughout the day. I don't know. You got any advice for, you know, when you're going hard in the gym? This is actually on the treadmill. So I don't know. Maybe I should be concerned that I pull the muscle in the treadmill. Do you got anything I should be doing? Is there a stretch or like should I just be like hanging from a doorway or something?

Yeah, there's a stretch. I have to start my morning with it where I do like one knee up, the other leg straight, and then I just turn my entire torso and then it pops and then I reverse it on the other side. Like I can't get my day started unless I do it that way. And it's actually helped because there was a weird phase like my late 30s where my back was just tight all the time. Oh, this is the one knee up like over the other leg? Yeah. Okay, I've done that. I think I would cry if I do that now. But that's sort of in the middle, sort of in the middle, upper back there. I don't know what the hell happened.

I'm a big if I'm hurt. And there was a, you know, I played some hoops and it was just, it was brutal. And it was, I don't even know. I know I'm not going to quit, but I feel like quitting. There was like this thing where I could just tell like the right leg is up into the hip more than it should be and then it's like the lower back on that side is all fucked up um but what I noticed like the next day say it's like up you know it's a little little more tender a little more tweaked than I want me actually doing something active instead of just sitting around like I used to when I was younger if I hurt my back it would just be like

oh I'm out of commission and now if I'm not to when I was younger, if I hurt my back, it would just be like, oh, I'm out of commission. And now if I'm not feeling great, I just go really slow, extra stretching, maybe 15, 20 minutes, really slow on a treadmill or an elliptical machine. But then I'll go through like whatever workout I was going to do, focusing on not putting myself in a compromising position.

And by the end of the day, I'll feel way better. Now, if you're like fucked up, fucked up, obviously rest will help but i've always felt like doing something active actually loosens it up more so don't shut it down is what i'm telling you go maybe on the elliptical you know throwing a throwing a fucking episode of tate frazier just chill out all right maybe maybe rewatchables what's the treadmill routine kyle like are we okay so here's miles yeah yeah all right here we go i've actually i've actually getting i'm improving i've seen measurable improvements right so basically i do a mile on the elliptical uh and then i do like two to three miles on the treadmill and i was doing like a brisk walk big

cardio guy and that yeah yeah i mean i think if i'm honest with myself that's i'm not worried about getting too big at the gym you know what i mean so i think i think we just got to be honest with ourselves where we're at so um you know so that i'd be doing uh the treadmill and i was like all right it's you know i do a brisk walk but then it's like all right you got to run uh and so i used to do um hook like for songs like i i just have like a hip-hop playlist and i would just i do like i'd run for the first uh verse of a song and now i'm doing verse hook and now i'm doing uh hook verse hook so intervals yeah intervals so it's like you know and i'll go back from like you know from like seven

to like a to like a four which is like a brisk walk and then uh go back to a seven or 7.5 so anyway i've been uh i'm now almost running for entire songs. So almost, almost there. So that's, that's what I like to do in the upstairs of, of gold's gym. And then I'll go down and,

and, and just try to do some like weightlifting stuff, but it's a, it's cardio heavy. I hate running. Unless I'm like playing a sport, but I used to, when I used to go to the gym,

cause now I mostly just work out from your fears. Yeah. Well, there you go. I used to, I used to try to do that gym, cause now I mostly just work out from your fears. Yeah. Well, there you go. I used to, I used to try to do that rip Hamilton thing where he would like run, just run, run a mile as fast as you can basically like daily.

That's what he would do. And, uh, but that was, I mostly did that because I just didn't like running for more than like 10 minutes. So I would just run as fast as I could. I'd be like,

I'm doing my part today. Like I ran for five. Well, I wouldn't run a five minute mile, but you know, it'd be somewhere around seven, seven and a half minutes. Uh, so that's kind of what my routine was, but i did just pick up a treadmill actually for my parents my parents are moving out of their house

and they're getting rid of all their shit so i picked up this treadmill that i have behind me actually it's like flat and a small one i'm gonna do that walk walk walking desk thing where i'm gonna put it under my desk and like walk while i work which i kind of feel like a loser doing that but i do know it is good for me because younger me would have definitely made fun of me for doing this. But getting your steps in is kind of important when you're in your mid-30s, you know? Yeah, like you're in your basement right now. It's not like everyone has to see your walking desk, right?

I mean, it's... I'm excited about it. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm going to set it up after we finish today. I'm going to get my... I don't have one of those wrist things. I got to figure out what the step meter is so I can keep track.

But I don't move enough. I got to move more. This is a hand-me-down treadmill. Is this like an early 2000s? Is this like an embarrassing treadmill? No. Like my parents' treadmill is kind of embarrassing. It's got a lot of dust on it.

It hasn't been used a ton. But I think it's like relatively new and it's like super flat. So I'm just going to, you know, we'll try it out. All right, good. Happy for you, man. So big car.

Ryan's running. Kyle's on the treadmill. I got a treadmill. It's a big cardio podcast. Let's go. Big cardio. I treadmill. I got a treadmill. It's a big cardio podcast now. Let's go. I'm doing sprints on the Peloton. I'm doing wattage outputs. I see

how fast I can do 10. Post your times. Yeah, I'm done. It's going to be fucking sweet. Alright. We have a million follow-ups on the Caitlin Clark thing. A million. Actually, most of them are very good and sort of positive so let's let's start with a couple i may do a couple follow-ups here i'm not sure uh 5 10 170 my friends compare my game to dion in a non-complementary

fashion i imagine dion waiters is there a complimentary version of Dion Waiters? So you suck to play with. You're the most confident human being not named shamanic. Anyway, this email is just in your defense, but Caitlin ran some pickup ball here in West Des Moines at the Lifetime Gym and she destroys. Pickup in Iowa, as you can guess, isn't always the highest quality, but there's some dudes here. I played varsity in high school for three years. What's up? That's the way to write that sentence. And she's one of the best players I've ever played with against. And she schooled me several times. She gets to the hoop with ease, doesn't miss. And she makes some of the best passes I've ever seen, period. Any dude who isn't a legit basketball talent needs a reality check.

Love the pod. You're immediately going to be met with resistance because you're going to say, wait, this guy was 5'10", 170. It's Iowa, which isn't fair because basically any place with a popular... No, but it's true. If you're near a highly populated area and you're playing varsity basketball at one of those schools, even if your school's the shitty one, that's still somewhat of an accomplishment. Whatever. I don't know that there's a ton to add to. I think most, you know what I think? It's amazing progress from where we were as sports guys 20 years ago, because 90% of the follow-up emails about this specific topic, which is the right way to go about the topic, good guy that played D1 at maybe even Clemson or Murals. No, but like D1 at Clemson or something. Yes, that would be a different topic altogether. But those guys aren't emailing.

We don't have... Those guys usually don't care enough to email, I think. Yeah, they're not emailing the show. They already know. They already know. They already know the deal. I did have somebody DM me on Twitter saying, Ryan's riff on 6'3 good male hooper not being able to guard Katelyn Clark is outlandish.

Like, all right, yeah, 6'3 good athlete basketball player. Yeah, okay, like that's fair. But we're talking about like normal dudes, I think. You know, we're talking even if you're 6'4 in decent shape and you don't play basketball, she's going to smoke you. Yeah, right. 6'3", 220, who's fucking awesome at basketball? Yeah. All right.

Cool. You got me. So like a decent college or NBA player? Okay. Yep. Got me. I cannot emphasize this enough. I know who this person is, this make-believe character that's in his 20s

who didn't play in any game anyone ever gave a fuck about, but got a little bit better, started feeling himself, and was like, I'm fucking good now. I know who you are. I was you. Okay? Grow up. This is a follow-up to Hinge'sillow but for people guy um he didn't love my

vibe boys honored to have my email discussed in the pod but gotta say real old man take by ryan with this one keep in mind this is a dating app we're talking about not a college essay fair fair point yeah i guess you don't have to you have to annotate or anything at the bottom there that's fine what was our position did i say emphatically take it down i don't remember that i was that i think it was just my general annoyance down yeah it was just my general annoyance of like a younger generation that just takes shit from everybody else while talking about how terrible working conditions are. So you fucking steal from each other constantly. Again, working in content, I'm certainly a little bit more in tune to the entire thing. I just felt like it was such an amazing line for Kyle. And I was a little

afraid that our guy emailing, it's like, are you ever this funny? Is this your range? Because it's a really fucking funny line. And if you you never deliver if you're never that funny again so apparently i don't know i mean it's funny that it's i'm wrong because i'm old have you ever thought you could be wrong because you're young did i just blow your mind right uh wait i thought he was getting credit though for it not even just from her but from like something else it wasn't the hinge from the hinge from the girl that was she worked at hinge that's right and she like wanted yeah so that that that he's leaving a little bit out there like it's not just that he used it and he got a date it's like

there's also more to it to be fair i don't mind but now that i mind that rothilla minds you know right um look she is really attractive okay that's what all right now i'm so no no no you might know i'm happy for him i'm happy for him i think i think we should state the record thusly uh i thought it was such a good line that i'm protective of kyle it doesn't mean no one should ever be able to use it but he was the first guy that told us he took it. So he was in the hot zone. Yeah. Right?

He was Ted Williams' outer half. Quote Dennis Reynolds, I don't care about any of this. But I'm glad everyone's in a good place. He did say, this guy's actually pretty funny because the next line is, my role in construction management, my role is in construction management so maybe i'm just used to taking credit for the work of others right maybe this guy is going to be this funny that's a good line

aware that's good all right but hey anything you can use to get an advantage on these things is free game in my opinion the amount of profiles with the same i like the office type response is baffling i'll meet you halfway then I'm definitely screwed if she thinks I'm capable of topping this I don't know I actually think you might be now with that line appreciate the advice I'll remove it out of respect for Kyle and his intellectual property not going to yearbook quote a sports pod though no

offense honestly I wanted to put it back up and take credit for it now he's got he won me back good well he's also not taking it down after he has a date with this hot chick. Way to take a bullet there. No, I don't care.

I say we take it to the tribunal. I vote for and no accreditation. Yeah, I'll take it for the dudes. You got it, man. I'll let Kyle take this one. It's fine. He doesn't care. Have it. All right. All doesn't care. Have it. Okay.

All right. All yours, bro. Should we do one more follow-up? Is it a good one? Yeah. Not really. Some dude wants to come on the pod. For one specific reason,

which is making the rounds. Over the past year or so, we as Hornets fans have heard you and Bill randomly attack the Hornets unceremoniously. It started with the lunacy of Bill getting caught up in the moment,

like he tends to do during the last year's playoffs to have the horrific take that he would take Jordan Poole over Lomelo, something that you did not refute. Hmm. Deers don't forget.

Hmm. Is that insane to say? Maybe that's why. There's some things Bill says I just go, I don't have the time to refute this one. There's sometimes I don't refute because I do agree. I'll tell you this. I think the shine on the Lamella thing is going to get

a little weird. I think it's going to get a little weird i think it's gonna get it's already getting weird for george yeah yeah uh more teams would want lamello i don't think this is i'd rather have duncan robinson instead of fucking i don't know giddy however, this past Sunday's podcast was the breaking point when you multiple times said the Hornets do not deserve him. Wenbenyama. I do not know how you can even

formulate a coherent argument that suffice to say an organization does not deserve someone. If anything, this is an organization that deserves Wenby more than anyone. Noted. The only plausible argument that could be brought to the contrary would be that mj sucks as an owner riveting argument kudos to you aristotle i would wow that was pretty fucking mean this guy's funny huh i do think we should do once a month we should do just once a month feedback

that's it fucking put on the books pivot creatively here where there's gonna be a yeah once a month just fucking feedback. Maybe it's a separate email thing that we put next to job inquiries. Alright, to finish, I would love to be able to have a chance to intellectually defend the Hornets case against the most logical sports personality in the game as well and give tidbits. Oh, so a compliment

after the insult. Fair. Smart. This guy's a good writer. Give tidbits as to why this roster sneakily being slept on the hornets young deep bench pieces recently took the rockets young quote talented core to the final seconds i gotta be honest i don't want to hear this guy talk about any of this stuff we don't like the rockets it's one regular season game but yeah yeah i mean you want to talk about like a weird feeling on the old couch for your boy watching the heat and hawks play the other i was like who am i rooting for or against in this one

i don't i don't quite know how i feel all right let's finish the email and then we'll tear it apart um though let me read that sentence again Why this roster is sneakily being slept on the Hornets young deep bench pieces recently took the Rockets young talented quote quarter of the final seconds. I hope you would have the intellectual honesty to have another position brought forth instead of dismissing this and rattling off what you deem to be reasons that would somehow make an organization undeserving. My question is, what advice would you give, would you all give, to try and make this discussion happen? Well, I would try to hit up

a podcast that has a much harder time getting guests. That's why I would start. Yeah, when you have maybe the worst owner in the NBA, that's a pretty good reason and shouldn't be dismissed. And you want fucking credit for losing to the Rockets by three points? You want credit for that?

And when was that game? April? April 7th? Like, dude, a lot of those results, I'm like, I don't even know what to do with a lot of these. Keep going. Cerruti? No, I think honestly i like i appreciate

this guy for sending email thanks for listening the pod that is the dumbest thing i've ever heard in my life that the fact you're going to defend your this team the hornets because they barely lost to a terrible team that we all kind of hate in the rockets like that's what are you trying to do dude i i don't i just don't understand that that one didn't make a ton of sense uh it didn't make a ton of sense to me um and look i'd rather wemby be in charlotte than houston so like i don't i don't i don't even i don't know i made it oh really but i think the hornets have won one and obviously the bobcats part of this is weird too where that owner named the team after himself which i feel like went totally under the radar i think they've won three playoff games in 20 years, and that was just in the one season

in 15-16 when they lost the Heat in the first round. MJ's a terrible owner. If he weren't MJ, there'd be way more discussion about how bad of an owner this guy is and because he's mj and it's not even close to being like you know if you were introducing michael jordan to a people at a gala how far would you like you'd be like oh and he owns the hornets that might be like eighth um i mean first of all obviously it's not happening but uh i just think it's like it's kind of back to the old young thing we just said is there any chance because you like the Hornets so much, you might be wrong? Right? Like, what are you really, you're mad that somebody else argued that the thing you care about shouldn't get somebody.

Is there any chance you're too emotionally close to it where I'm emotionally distant and I could have better perspective. That would be my counter to it. Sorry. I hope this was a wake up for a lot of Twitter users out there. I just hope. Yeah. Hey, you're wrong about the thing I care about. All right.

Send. All right. We went deep on some follow ups here. Was well written email, though. We'll give it some follow-ups here. It was a well-written email, though. We'll give it that. Good job. Okay. Paternity leave.

Saruti, this one's going to be for you. Love the pod. Been listening since SVP days. 26 years old. 6'2". So that means SVP started. Jesus Christ. Do you realize this summer, that's 14 years ago,

our start date? That was 12. Disney product though. Let's see. 6'2", 195. Work out a few times a week. Stats are average. I play pickup hoops

as much as possible. I can still dunk. Compass hated Turkoglu. Shout out to the 09 Magic. God, sorry. Love that. I love this guy already. My question is about

how to navigate my upcoming paternity leave. I've been at my current job for just over a year in a unique engineering field with a company I'd like to stay at long-term. I received very positive feedback in my first annual performance review. I enjoy the work and see potential to grow in my career here. My wife and I are expecting our second child at the end of this year. My company gives 10 weeks of paid paternity leave. When we had our first child, that was a previous job without paternity leave, so it was only able to take off a few weeks of normal vacation. I'd like to take the whole time, and so would my wife, but my concern is that taking the entire 10 weeks off early in my time with this company could give

me some kind of bad rep. For context, a couple of guys in my department have been with the company a while longer that I've only took three to four weeks of leave before returning full-time when they had kids in the past year. I have a good relationship with my manager. I'm sure I've only took three to four weeks of leave before returning full time when they had kids in the past year. I have a good relationship. My manager, I'm sure I would receive no direct pushback if I told him I expect to take the full leave, but don't want to do something outside of the norms of the company. Am I overthinking this? And should I just plan to take the whole time or do I need to try to find out how taking

the whole leave would be perceived and plan on taking less time? Yeah. Okay. Suri, why don't you take it? How long have you gone? A year? I was, I think, yeah, about a year. out how taking the whole leave would be perceived and plan on taking less time yeah okay uh certainly why don't you take it well how long have you gone a year i was i think yeah about a year now i think i was gone for 12 weeks so basically three months uh and that's spotify right spotify lets you go they give you six months they give you yeah you still got shit in your back pocket for the summer right we could still yeah and i could use it for like another i think two years basically two years after she's born spotify gives you six months six months attorney leave on top of your normal vacation yeah i mean i didn't take a ton of

vacation in the lead up because i knew i was going to be off like i wasn't gonna be an asshole about it but as someone who had i'm not an anxious person i don't have anxiety like you know i've just you know it's it's maybe I will one day, but I've been kind of blessed in that way. But I was extremely anxious about how I was going to handle that because it is a long time. There's no way to not feel like a douche about it.

There just isn't. Especially when I'm sitting at home. There were nights when it was really hard and you're up in the middle of the night. But there are also nights... I talked to you guys about it. You got a lot of downtime. I was watching a lot of games. I was texting with you're up in the middle of the night. But there are also nights, like I talked to you guys about it, you got a lot of downtime. I was watching a lot of games. I was texting with you, Ryan. I was talking to people.

I kind of feel like I could have been doing stuff at that time. Now, great, I work from home, so it's a little bit different. But I think it's totally normal to be anxious about this. But I will say, if you didn't get it for the first one, and you definitely did miss out on something, I will say it was really cool, especially in those first three months, to see my daughter completely change. From first month, she's just keeping her alive and you're freaking out about everything. Then she starts to recognize stuff. That whole process, I would have missed out on a lot of that stuff if I went back to work after six weeks or so.

So I'm team take what you can get. And if you have a good relationship with your manager, then I think you should do it. They're going to figure it out. There's a reason that these companies give this to you. They want people to take it because they want to have good employees. So if you're in good standing with your boss, and it's something that you missed out on your first child, I would 100% take as much as you can. 10 weeks isn't that bad. I would 100% take as much as you can. 10 weeks isn't that bad. Yeah, it doesn't seem like too much.

But what... That's for fraternity leave, right? Usually maternity leave is a little longer, or can we not... Fraternity leave is different. Can we not delineate that anymore? Well, yeah, because it's too much for each one, right? I mean, either one is too much. Is twins a year?

I won't say who, but I had multiple people that work with us that were like dude you got to take the six months oh dude i know exactly who you're talking about and sometimes i need stuff from that guy and he's like oh shit he's another kid i'm gonna leave that one alone uh but if i had taken any more than what i took i i was ready to come back when after three months was up. Like I was,

I needed something else to do. So it was also a good like recharging tool. Like, all right, like I'm ready. Like I was, I miss you guys. I miss working with everybody.

I miss working on shows. I miss talking about shit. So it's a good like recharging tool. If I had taken six months, I would have lost my mind. But 10, 10 weeks really isn't that even that much.

So I think just go for it, dude. Yeah, that's what I would say. And so you're not asking about taking a half a year here. It's two and a half months. All right. All right. Okay. To the specific nature of the email, though,

he is saying that the older guys that are ahead of him, above him, didn't take the 10 weeks. All right. So there is a... Who cares? Well, so when I came i think one of the are you fucking serious hold on who cares kyle was in the in the zoom i believe on this one when i came back one of my first shows it was bill and peter schrager in a bill record and i was talking i

think i swear kyle was like my first or second show back and i said yeah you know i was off for like three months it was really great it was awesome to be around my daughter. Bill and Peter both told stories about like how basically when they had kids that they just went back to work the next day and they didn't get any time. Peter was like, oh, I was on the NFL sideline that next two days later. And like, I kind of felt weird about it. But then I was like, these are just kind of these guys are just kind of like, are they a little bit mad about it? I don't know. Maybe they are. But I was happy with the time that I had. So I think old guys are going to be old, are they a little bit mad about it? I don't know. Maybe they are. But I was happy with the time that I had. So I think old guys are going to be old guys.

You can't worry about what they're going to do. If you're going to be pumped about taking 10 weeks and you're good at your job, take the 10 weeks, come back to work and tell them to fuck off. That's what I would do. Yeah, there's no more hazing anymore. All those guys have stories about how hard they had it, you know? All right. I got an issue.

I think specific to your career, Saruti, you're awesome at what you do. And you've had, is it fair to say, some rather important people always fucking having your back? So you could never do anything to me at this point because of our relationship where I would ever be upset with you. When you were off the show, I was like, I don't care. I'm good for you. Do your thing. I missed you. I missed the fucking annoying phone calls where you don't talk for the first 15 minutes as I'm spouting all this stuff at you, you know, as my creative muse.

But I knew the deal. And but you're at home. Like Schrager is doing NFL sidelines for specific like it's the NFL. It's week eight. guidelines for specific, like it's the NFL it's week eight. And so he's, he's probably worried about like, Hey, I take too many of these off, especially as paternity leave, forget the women that have to worry about it. Maternity leave being like, Oh, I am just going to take the season off. They're going to be worried about their job the next time. So depending on your field, depending on who has your back, depending on the workplace options, like there is some massaging

to it. Like he might just be able to go ahead and take the whole 10 weeks. If his wife wants him to take the 10 weeks, I'm sure a lot of listeners are going, Hey dude, just take the 10 fucking weeks. I am simply suggesting, like he said in the email, ask around a little bit because it could dent you as like a dent that can be fixed or it can kind of dent you where depending on how the rest of your work goes and where your work ethic is. And you're so fucking good at your job that you never had to worry about it. And you have a unique situation, but your situation is not everybody. Your situation is far more unique than most of the people that are in this kind of spot where it's like, Hey,

find out a little bit, or maybe go, Hey, at week six, I can check emails, or maybe I can come in once a week, uh, because there will be places can check emails or maybe I can come in once a week because there will be places, there will be places that are going to look at the guy taking the max amount of leave as a negative. Not all, I don't know, but there will be. You're right. And real quickly, Peter Schrager, I believe just had his second child, so congrats to him. He did take, I saw a video where he was like, I didn't, Kyle, I think he responded to you on it because you congratulated him too. I think he took a couple weeks off from the show, from Good Morning Football.

He wasn't around. So he did take some time off. So congrats to him. Congrats to the Schrager family. Back to Ryan's point, it's like off-season stuff. And then to your other point, Ryan, about me being in a good spot, true. Thank you.

You've had my back. I appreciate it. I was kind of talking about Bill more than me, really. I was still kind of new with the ringer, though. I was still kind of new with the ringer. So I was like, I was kind of talking about bill more than me. Really. I was still kind of new with the ringer though. I was still kind of new with the ringer. So I was like, I don't, I don't want to be that guy that just like takes the full,

but you know, paternity leave after only being at the company for two years. So this is, I think this is what this guy's going through. So it's, it's a totally legitimate thing to feel like. I think feeling guilty about it is okay. But again,

10 weeks, isn't that much time. And the other part is maddie my wife she was pretty at she was like who fucking cares like you have this take it this is what it's there for you should be taking this time so it was partially driven by her not i'm not this isn't like i blame maddie thing because she's 100 right here like i should have taken the three months but she was like in my head being like you have to get out of your own head about this like take this is your daughter you're having a kid it's a life-changing event like fucking ryan could talk to somebody else for

for a couple shows about you know what what nfl lead topic we're gonna do on the pot on monday and she's right so i don't know i don't know seven billion people do a lot of people having kids not that rare well i am on record that it's not that hard although it's gotten a little bit harder recently oh how about that well she's just been sick she's had a cold for like three straight weeks it's just i mean she's a trooper but i'm also sick now it kind of blows baby coughs tough thing to hear it still looks good the fucking kid's sick kyle look at this kid look how good he looks thank you well my my sinuses are very different but again all that to say just i it's okay it's normal to feel guilty i think you take 10 weeks you can even talk you said you got a nice relationship with your boss you could be like hey listen i was thinking about taking 10

weeks i'm planning on taking 10 weeks is there like is there like a six week sort of deal come back and there's like a lull where i could take is that possible you know and be like i think my new family would like if i could get 10 weeks but you know if it's if it's a month and a half and then i can can i break it up is that all right Or are you telling me that it's 10 weeks or bust? My issue is, well, go ahead, Rudy. No, just for the record. I also did work. So I did the world cup pod because I did that. What a month, less than a month after she was born.

So I did like 15 pods. You're a hero, dude. I'm just saying I wasn't. I, I only say that in relation to Kyle's thing of like, if you want to ease back into it or like, you know, maybe go at like 40, 50%.

Maybe you could do some stuff while still being off. Like some companies give you shit for that. I remember there was kind of like a weird spot. I think where they were like, Oh, they want you to be off. They want you to be off. And I was like,

what I really want to do this world cup thing. I love the world cup. So we got around that. So I don't know. You're right. Ask around, but you know, I just want to point out, Cup thing. I love the World Cup. So we got around that. So I don't know. You're right. Ask around. But, you know, I just want to point out

I was doing things during the three months. So not a hero, but I was doing some things. But not not a hero is what we're saying. The content world is aware. I'm not not a hero.

All right. In closing, anyone that is listening to this and as we read out the scenario to pretend that they know better than like, we don't know. Every place is is different the wife card is significant um i would tell you through my work history i never took any time off fucking ever and i didn't even have a kid no one rewarded you for it. No, like super hard.

Oh guy. Like I'm going to show them every time I was like, I'm never going to do that. They're going to show. And then when my contracts up, I've never once in 21 years now had somebody at the contract. Like, you know,

this fucking guy never takes any fucking time off. Not once. I haven't heard it once. So then I look back and be like, yeah, you probably could have gone to that wedding or you could have done that thing with your friends. You could have done this.

You could have done all these different things and you just didn't. You kept making excuses why you didn't have to do it. So now does that mean, hey, now go take the 10 weeks? I just think certain workplaces, especially in this engineering field with some older dudes, knowing that those guys didn't take the full 10 weeks, it could ding you a little. And so I think to your point is you even said, like you even answered your own question, you know, feel it out a little bit, you know, and if you're not getting the greatest fives back on the full 10 week, see if there's some way

you're like, Hey, what if we start checking emails or what if I can kind of come in one day or something like that? So you're sort of appeasing everybody. Like you're in the tough spot here because you're actually career oriented enough that you're worried about it. But I would tell you at least with my own history, and I think the history of a lot of people is the super gung ho, never take any fucking time off thing doesn't pay you back the way that you think it would. And since you're 26, you could just, they may already like be pre ready for your young dude vibe where they're like, oh, that 26 of course he's going to take all of his time off because the older workforce hates the youngest workforce now more than ever before

and to re-emphasize that stuff you could just like walk around the office and be like dude greta thunberg fucking awesome right dudes and they just look at you and like what you know and just start planting those little seeds. Be like, Billie Eilish, eh, I don't see it anymore. You're like, what? So you just keep playing that game. And they're like, this guy's so young. They're preheated to the idea that you're not going to be there for 10 weeks.

Could I just say, too, there's a big difference between the person who uses all of their sick days. I used to get so mad at this at ESPN. I don't think think i used i maybe used one sick day in my eight years at espn to your point ryan you know what nobody fucking cares except like the people that don't take it because they get annoyed right but it like doesn't really impact your career but like you know the people the person that takes all their sick day like you you did you develop a reputation of like god this person totally and then it never catches. It never seems to catch up to them. It usually doesn't. I don't think there's the same stigma when you have a...

Maybe I'm wrong. Obviously, I'm too close to the situation. You guys tell me. I think when you have a child, it is a little bit different. But like the sick day thing, when you know somebody was taking a vacation, they were going to call out on sick the day they got back,

that person sucks. Not the person who takes 10 weeks for paternity leave. I don't know. But you get no credit for taking no sick days. That's for sure. I broke my fucking finger on the way to a Bill Simmons podcast

on one of those scooters. I did his podcast bleeding. Nobody remembers that. I get no credit for it. Not a hero, though. Not a hero. No, I am a hero for that one. That one I'm a hero for.

I had a tooth worked on where I had to drive to Boston the night before, stay over in a hotel, go to Newburyport to the dentist because I had massive anxiety about it. and the dentist was a guy i went to college with so i was like just getting back into it with having health insurance and i was like this tooth is fucked up it's killing me and they drilled it open and they found that there were

files left in there two files that were left in with a cap over it that were broken off during a previous root canal and the guy was like what the fuck and he we fixed it up and i was like no wonder that thing hurt so bad um and then i was back in the air that day and and van pelt's like what are you doing and i was so freaked out i think being the on-air person too you're always like i'm gonna be replaced like yeah i'm not especially back then for me i i wasn't gonna miss anything i think i called in sick once or twice i got a crazy fever when i was in baton rouge once and nobody believed that like nobody i think that's what it was for me i was always like no my dad never even

believed when i was like sick in high school so i was like nobody was gonna believe me like i used to have to show toilet like puke in the toilet like if i flushed it i had to go to school because he didn't believe me because that's the only way i could stay home was if i like actually threw up and uh that was the only way and if i flushed i had to go to school one morning because i flushed a puke without him seeing it and he was like sorry bud don't trust it oh no that was no yeah being the oldest i Yeah. Being the oldest, I'd get... My mom would be like, all right, you're fine. You can stay home. And then the father

would come in for the inspection and you were going to school. Disgusted that you would even try. They'd be like, go to the nurse if you don't feel well. Like, I currently don't feel well, though.

So what's the... And then by the time they knew, though, they're smart. Because then by the time you get in school, you're already there. And I'm like,

oh, I'm not going to just go to the nurse and then come home. That's a good one. I like that one. I'm going gonna just go to the nurse and then come home that's a good one i like that one i'm gonna use it to buy kids and take six months off all right uh thank you to kyle thanks steve thanks quentin richardson heroes and heroes and the heroes out there so we will be back on tuesday playoff games getting going we're doing tails on the couch once a week maybe we're gonna to do a feedback

show. I don't want to take away from life advice, but maybe we'll do it as well. I've got an author coming up for this book I just read that's coming out. The Wager is coming out next week. Just read it. David Grant is going to join us next week as well. Bill and I on Sundays. Thanks as always. Ryan Russo, The Podcast.

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