The Ryen Russillo Podcast - LeBron Outshines Steph in the Play-in, Plus Tony Allen and Jeff Garlin

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

Russillo opens by breaking down the Lakers-Warriors play-in game, LeBron’s deep 3 over Steph, and all the drama that occurred late in the game (2:25). Then, he talks with former Celtics and Grizzlies guard Tony Allen, who tells some great stories about guarding Dwyane Wade, what made the Grit and Grind Grizzlies so great, and his experiences with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, and Doc Rivers in Boston (17:30). Next, he chats with actor and comedian Jeff Garlin about doing standup and the creative process in 'Curb Your Enthusiasm,' before pitching Jeff an episode idea (52:25). Finally, Ryen closes it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:30:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Tony Allen and Jeff Garlin Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Doc was like, T.A., come here. He rewinded the tape. And he told me, he was like, yo, look at this. You see who shot the first shot of the game? I looked at the film. I said, I shot the first shot of the game. And he looked down at the court. And he said,

you see that guy over there? That's Paul Pierce. He get paid the big bucks. That means if you want to play on this court, you need to be doing everything he not doing. That's playing defense, dabbing for loose balls, taking charges, and being a cause of havoc on the defensive end. And if you got to shoot it, make sure the clock

is under four. You get what I'm saying? So I knew right then, like, oh, I don't get no clear outs. We ain't running no two ISO screen flex for T.A. None of those type of options

for me. And it was right then and there like, the adjustment gotta come. That was Tony Allen learning early on that his role would be changing with the Celtics. That and a ton of amazing NBA stories of Tony Allen. We'll do an open on the Lakers win. And Jeff Garland,

life with Curb and life as a comedian. It's all coming up next. Okay, the Lakers are your seven seed. Golden State has one more game to get back in after losing to the Lakers. It was all Golden State early in the first half. We're going to run through all of this stuff. So timeline of the game and then kind of where we're at.

Shout out to the Grizz for their win against San Antonio. I'm not going to spend any time on that. And I'm just thrilled I don't have to watch San Antonio anymore. Actually, I will spend a few seconds on it. It's shocking that when you think of San Antonio basketball, and granted, I'm not saying this year, but when you think of who they are, what made them great, and for all of the movement and all of the people that could depend on each other, it was basically Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan isos on the most important possessions of a San Antonio Spurs season for about two and a half minutes. And I was like, this is all they're doing right now.

And there was a DeJounte Murray turnover in there. But, however, congrats to them for fighting back. But they're out. We don't have to watch the Spurs anymore. All right. Warriors, Lakers. This is about LeBron and how he looked at the start. And it didn't look great.

But now that we have the full game, we realize, okay, was he hurt? Because we had some boots on the ground there reporting LeBron didn't look the same I looked at one play Bazemore hit that early early three like I'm I think I might have made it 7-2 it was that early in a possession and LeBron had Bazemore and LeBron didn't even not only did he not contest he didn't even like he didn't even bother he just went to the glass to see if it was coming off. And I was like, okay, I think he's taking his time in this game. And despite Curry's struggles, he was two for six in the first quarter. LeBron didn't look good either.

When Steph could get by the double team, because you want to talk about a defensive strategy. The entire Lakers defensive strategy with added intensity in the second half was to try to find a way to slow Steph down by bringing that double out, meeting him as far as they could. And against that double, Steph is going to figure it out at some point. But when it's a double with size like Anthony Davis later on, I mean, it's just a lot to deal with even if you know that it's coming. If Steph could turn the corner, though, that would open up things for other players. So it's 55-42 at the half. We don't know what to make of LeBron. Dennis Schroeder's a disaster.

Anthony Davis is a mess. They're 4-23 combined for 14% from the floor, which actually ended up being the worst shooting half for those three combined in any half of a game this season. 55-42, we come out, Mark Jackson gives his halftime speech, which was incredible in what happened. I would tell these guys, you are winners. You are the Los Angeles Lakers. Relax. Exhale. Go out there. Do your job. Take care of your business. And Van Gundy's like, yeah, I'd say the opposite.

I'd be like, you're too relaxed. Do something. Which I just was at home. Whenever I hear the comp there, I just, I couldn't stop laughing. Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers. Golden State, if you're waking up today, you're going to be kicking yourself

because the turnover issue was the issue. That's what happened in this game. Golden State starts not only facing a more intense defense, a more engaged closeout from guys like Anthony Davis up on Draymond Green. It was eight Golden State turnovers in the third quarter.

That was the issue. Now, whenever Steph got Caruso, it was kind of mixed results. Like Caruso's working his ass off, but if he could get an angle on Caruso, there's a couple times where Caruso was playing him on the side, and he just sent him right to the rim, and Steph had clear layups because there's just some bad rotations in there. But those turnovers led to easy buckets. There was one playoff, a turnover,

where it was actually later on, where Caruso did get Curry. He stuck his hand in there, timed the dribble perfectly, ends up going off of Curry. That was kind of the turnover that cost Golden State a better chance in this one. And then off of that, we're talking an inbound,

not a turnover still in play, an inbound off the turnover. And then Golden State's completely scattered defensively. They had to foul Anthony Davis. And then guess what? Davis played better. LeBron played better. Going back to that third quarter, it looked like the Lakers are still trying to figure

out these Andre Drummond minutes. He had three straight possessions where, look, if you want to put Andre Drummond out there to clean up a rebound and score, fine. You want to throw him a lob after some help comes away from him and then you're just going to make him pay, fine. But he had three possessions, I think, in a row there in the third quarter where I think one, he ended up with the ball, but it was still very early in the shot clock. And the other two times he had the ball were by design. You know, like, okay, so if Anthony Davis is out there with Drummond, this is a choice that you're making and it's a bad choice. And the right choice was Drummond, I don't think, ever came back onto the floor after that really bad stretch. So to start the fourth quarter

here, as the Lakers outscored Golden State 35-24 in the third, the Lakers started with LeBron and Anthony Davis. And if you're a Lakers fan, you know that that's not always the case because when we look at fourth quarter patterns and minute patterns for players in general, everybody's kind of different with their fourth quarters. I mean, or their minutes in general, Steph's usually a 12 minutes to start and then off for six minutes back in for six minutes, entire third quarter. And then he doesn't come in and they've been going back to when they were killing it with everybody else. Steph comes back in at the six minute mark. LeBron is different in that he'll start the fourth, he'll get a fourth quarter rest, and then he'll come

back in to close it. They do that with Zion too. They did it with Zion. I wonder if that's a new thing where guys are tracking this stuff with incredible data, medical stuff, where it's like, actually, when we monitor all of these things with you, you're at your peak if you get these quick bursts, and then you can play more of the fourth quarter this way. I don't know. I remember back with Durant and Westbrook, they used to do a deal where they play the entire first quarter together and then they'd overlap at two minutes, I think, or so into the second quarter. Now, don't hold me to all of this because I know it can kind of change a little bit here or there, but like Westbrook and Durant never wanted to be split. Bigs are different. Bigs will be taken out maybe at the seven or eight minute mark of the first

quarter knowing that you want them more on the back end. LeBron will play an entire first quarter and then carry over into the second quarter hoping to make up the rest somewhere else. So the bigs are going to play less minutes. The wings are going to play a little bit more. All the minute obsession that we've seen, but there's usually a very clear pattern with the best players on these teams. And so for this game in particular, because there was so much on the line, the Lakers come back in with LeBron AD. AD immediately gets it done. You hear the announcer saying, all right, they're going to get Draymond in here to match all of the Anthony Davis minutes. Davis played 42 minutes. Green played 41 minutes. And you could argue, I think even in that one minute, that was that time at that fourth quarter where there was a few possessions

where Green wasn't in. I think there are times where coaches are like, I just want to steal a minute or two. And then you realize immediately, I'm not even going to be able to do that. And if I have the guy at the scorer's table, we don't have a whistle. I could lose a few more minutes in this game. The infamous Zion Williamson standing at the scorer's table, New Orleans Pelicans game like forever during a stretch, I think of overtime because they started an overtime without him. Anyway, now I'm just getting too far off the rails. So that's the whole fourth quarter stuff. And then Steph, who I said, comes in primarily around six minute mark in fourth quarters for most of his career, he comes in at 1023

because they know they've got to figure this thing out. Steph had one field goal attempt in the last 308. This was the blueprint of a team designing everything defensively to stop one person. And they won, and Steph actually still had 37 points, seven boards, three assists, six of nine from the three-point line. So the entire system was to stop him, and he had 37. The problem is Wiggins had early moments, couldn't hit from outside.

Draymond had zero points, zero for five, or excuse me, he had two points over five from the floor. He did hit a couple free throws. And then LeBron hits just an absurd, absurd three. That's kind of going to be on the reel of all time moments. And yeah, we can laugh and it's the Lakers and the standard. This is below them in the playing game. It's just a ridiculous shot. It's a ridiculous shot. Steph looks at him like you'd be kidding me. And LeBron deserves all the credit in the world for that one because LeBron, bad shooting numbers, what the hell's going on?

I think if there was something wrong with him moments, I think his pace was just off. I think he was way too comfortable, and then I felt like he and both Davis did turn it on a little bit later. Schroeder was killing them. This game, again, is all about turnovers. I thought the rebounding thing would be an issue. The Lakers out-rebounded them by 59 through the regular season.

And the last time the Warriors beat them, I think, was back in January anyway, and they lost the next two. But I'd have to look at who played again and all that stuff. 20 turnovers to 11 turnovers. That's it. Golden State had 20. Lakers had 11. Those extra turnovers mean extra possessions.

And you look at the box score and look at that. Even though Golden State shot it really well from three. 44%, 15-34. The Lakers had 91 shots for the game compared to 83 shots for Golden State. And that was it. The last little thing I'll add about this

is it's never going to change because it's almost over LeBron's career. But when he goes up and is trying to sell the flagrant, and the flagrants are judged basically on the landing, like we don't review stuff. If a guy lands, all right, Draymond got his hands up in LeBron's face and, you know, he hit his eye and it wasn't malicious and it actually wasn't called a flagrant one, which I'm always shocked now when it isn't a flagrant one. And then I was joking when I tweeted out the eye game, it got 3000 likes.

It should have gotten zero. I was, you know, I don't, I guess I look at it this way. As great as LeBron is, it's just really fucking annoying, man. It just is. And if you're the greatest player easily of your generation and arguably, you know, in the conversation of the greatest players of all time, I think it's just kind of weird.

But I think it's a weird thing where it's not even about selling. I don't even think he knows that he can, that he's doing it. I don't, I don't know. I don't know that anybody would ever say like, cause if I were ever like, oh man, that was kind of lame. Like I exaggerated that a little bit.

He doesn't have that in him. Whether it's the hand brace in the NBA finals. And we were like, what is your hands broken? What's going on? And then he's like, I had to shoot at the rim in the middle.

Like, I'm sure your eye was watery a little bit. It sucks to get poked in the eye. But he has this weird, he's had it forever. The exaggeration, it's not just selling calls. I remember the first time I was on ESPN when I brought it up with Van Pelt like 10 years ago. I'm like, why does he do the jersey to check for blood move all the time? Like, he'd dab his jersey in his eyebrow and look to see if

there's blood there. There's never blood there. Maybe once. I've seen him turn his ankle live, leave, go to the locker room, come back, and then dunk off the same ankle 30 seconds later. It's just a weird element of him that doesn't mean anything for his legacy. I just think it's weird that if you're the badass

and you're the best player in the league, you think you just want to stop doing that at some point, but he's never going to stop. So me pretending it's going to happen is even a bigger farce than him exaggerating calls. Sruti, I don't even want to ask because I feel guilty as even doing two minutes on that because I already know where this is going to go.

You and I know each other really well. The guy hits an absurd 30-foot longest shot he's made all year long. They win it. They got Phoenix. They're a great match. That's exactly who the Lakers should want in the first round. Although, I got to admit, imagine if you were Utah going, are you serious? We're going to get the Lakers in the 1-8 after all of this. Or if you're the Clippers going, this plan worked. It was great. Now we're going to get them in the second round if we get out of the first. But I don't know. I don't want to be negative. I know I'm deemed negative at times.

I think I'm more of like, hey, I'm pointing out stuff that I just don't think enough people are pointing out. With the LeBron thing now, everybody's on this now. So I don't know. I don't even want to tee you up here because then I'm afraid we're going to turn it into negativity after this guy just made this absurd shot, which I think we've given him most of his praise. I just don't want to overdo it here.

No, but I think that's the annoying part is that that was an incredibly dramatic moment. It was unbelievable. That shot is, you're right, it's going to go down in the highlight reel of LeBron's career. There doesn't need to be any added drama, but it always seems like LeBron is always trying to add more drama to a situation that doesn't need any more drama. Like the stakes were already high. And then he says, you know, oh, you know i i saw three rims and i shot out the middle it just you don't need to add that it was already unbelievable you know and it comes

off as kind of it just comes off as kind of corny and i and i hate that it takes away from the shot like i'm annoyed that it takes away from the shot because it shouldn't it was unreal and here we are talking about you know whether or not he was seeing three rims and whether or not that it was actually like a legitimate injury or need to wear an eye patch, which he mentioned in the post game. I did the whole thing. I just think is so, I just hate that it takes away from the shot itself.

It's weird. It's a weird part of the personality. I don't know how else to, I just don't think anybody can ever say anything to him. I don't think like, do you think Maverick Carter would ever say like, Hey dude, like you probably werenverick Carter would ever say like, hey, dude, like you probably weren't blind

or do they go, awesome, man. Can't believe you did it. Can't believe you could barely see. I don't know. It's weird. Well, you always talk about this. Like his,

a lot of the stuff that he does is calculated, right? So I assume his, that the team is probably saying, you know, like the MVP thing where him calling Steph, the MVP, everyone said, oh, that's because he's trying to recruit Steph to join the Lakers in a couple of years. Like there's always like, that's exactly why he does it. Yeah.

There's, there's thing in the back of all clutches minds that they have to constantly be playing something up or playing up the dramatics or, you know, trying to sell something. And that's, that's kind of what I thought was happening last night. And it's a bummer because I'd rather be talking about the shot and how amazing it was than talking about whether or not he was seeing three rims. So we'll stop there because we did talk about the shot enough because it's, you know, you sit there and be like, oh, what an amazing, amazing win.

They were favored. They should have beaten Golden State. Okay, they're better than Golden State. You know, when you watch Golden State play defensively, their numbers are really, really good. But like, I remember, you know, even last night when I'm thinking about Utah or whatever, and a couple of buddies texted texted me and be like wouldn't you want the lakers right now if you're utah instead of golden state i'm like actually no no i'm not gonna let 24 bad fucking

minutes of shooting decide now that i'm from the jazz but you don't give me the lakers the team davis and lebron yeah i'll play them i'd them. I mean, look, I love Steph as much as anybody right now, but there's no comparison. There's no comparison between talent-wise who you would or wouldn't want to play over seven games. Let's talk to Tony Allen. Tony Allen, 14 seasons in the NBA, one of the great defensive players of his generation, very connected to the Memphis community after his time there with the team. What is it about Memphis, Tony?

I know I see you with the media stuff with Chris Vernon, one of our partners here at Ringer. What's it been like for you to stay in a city like that, knowing you're from Chicago and you've been around the league? I guess it's the Southern hospitality. They welcome me with just my time being there. I guess it's the Southern House Vitality, you know, they welcome me with, you know, just my time being there, I fell in love with

the city, worked so hard for the organization loved the organization, never had no bad blood with the organization and I just thought you know, when I came down here with my blue collar swagger you know, my green grand mode I think the city embraced me with that.

I think it was like with Memphis, ain't no shortcut in Memphis. It's either go 110% or go home. And I think it meshed well with my style of play and, uh, just things of that nature. It really was perfect. I mean, you know, the whole grit and grind thing and people would talk about, but like, it was real, it was real for you guys. And there was just something about it mean, you know, the whole grit and grind thing and people could talk about, but like, it was real, it was real for you guys. And there was just something about it where, you know, there might've been more talented teams, uh, clearly, but like those teams you

guys had, like, they were a tough out. They were always tough. I remember, I think we had Chauncey Billups in studio when you guys are up to one on golden state. And he was like, man, he's like, I think Memphis got them. And then look, I mean, Golden State's Golden State. And they pull out that series. But there was a real identity and a real culture. I think other teams pretend they have it, hope to have it. But you guys had it. How did you have it? Oh, man, specifically that year, too.

Just to put a few more wings on that sausage, just to say, I got hurt that year. I pulled my hamstring. And I think the series probably would have looked a little different had I not been hurt. But you got to give credit to those guys. And I just thought we was fearless. We all had a mutual respect for one another.

We all, me, Zach, Mike, Mark, we all held each other accountable. And one thing for sure, too, was certain we all wanted to win. You know, we was a whole bunch of guys that kind of like got counted out. You know what I mean? And we just made it our business to, you know, make the Grand House our place of business where you don't come play it or you don't come with your A game. You know, you got to come with it. And I think we made sure guys

got their rest. We made sure we was tuned in when it was games that we needed to win. I think that's why veteran leadership kicked in. We took care of business on teams that we were supposed to be. All the teams that they had us losing to or projected to lose

to, I think those were the games I think we took personally. And we did that throughout the season. And before you know it, it was just a grit and grind, we don't bluff type movement. Did you feel like some teams, even though they thought they were better than you, like, I don't know if afraid is the right answer. You know, afraid isn't, you know, like you guys are all pro athletes. We allergic to that word. That word, afraid isn't, you know, like you guys are all pro athletes, but yeah. We're allergic to that word.

That word, afraid, we don't fear nobody. And that's, that was the thing. Like some of your greatest superstars are coming there and, and, and think like,

all right, we just, just Memphis. We'll get this one. We really got the big game, the next game. You know, we changed that perspective of your biggest superstar.

Now when your biggest superstar come to Memphis, either he hurt or he know he got a long night. You get what I'm saying? And that was just an example of what Coach Hollins and Coach Jaeger and, you know, the coaches that, you know, had got a chance to coach us throughout the years, you know, they got that from our players. We all in, you know what I'm saying? When the one foot out, one foot got that from our players. We all in.

One foot out, one foot in. Everybody was all in. It was time we tweaked lineups. Some guys had to sacrifice myself, Zach Randolph. We didn't pout. It was for the better of the team.

I think when you got guys that's buying in, it's easy to coach, you know. You can win a little more. You would study guys. You know, I read about how you would watch videos of Kobe over and over and over again. Who did you think – everybody always asks you, like, who is your toughest? I know the answer is Kobe. Who was the guy you knew was like, shit, I don't want to deal with Tony Allen tonight?

Yo, yo, yo, yo. I've been waiting on somebody to ask me that again because ain't nobody asking me why everybody been telling me who I am you know I'm saying so it's funny you say that man but uh I gotta shine some light on on flash on flag I gotta shine some light on flash you know uh although Kobe is Kobe you know big respect to Kobe but I just think when I used to go against my hometown, you know, coworker D. Wade at the time, good brother, man, too, I thought he was always trying to go at my head. And I thought it was my duty to try to stop him. And, boy, was he tough.

He'd get to that line. He slams. He wasn't just your typical superstar where he'd just catch it in the post or catch it on the wing and just go to work. You know, he used to pick and roll. Sometimes he'd be in the offense. If he can't get his shot going off the pull-up, backdoor cuts. You got to be aware of a superstar staying this active.

Watching the offensive rebound, he might come tip-dunk you. You get what I'm saying? And I thought, like, every time that I got a chance to play he performed and uh it was difficult I don't know the numbers I ain't no analytical guy I told you I gritting grind but I know for a fact if I could look at the numbers for sure Dwayne Wade man he he used to give me fits man man. And I thought it was real. It was like a real great feeling when we sent them out.

But that was 2010. I think it was, we went through Wade, LeBron, Vince, and lost to Kobe. I think that was 2010. Don't get me telling stories.

Yeah, Boston, the rematch of the Lakers, 2010. Yeah, I think we had to go to Miami first. Yeah. And, man, the first game, the way they put up like 44. I don't know the first game, second game, third. I don't know. But whichever one of them games, I was just like, I remember myself saying to Steve,

and why we just can't sweep them and get this guy out the way. And I just remember times like that with Flash. So if I have to give anybody any praise on who gave me fit, it's the hometown kids, Shirtown, Dwayne Wade. Yeah, you gave us the humble answer on that one because you added somebody else to the resume that was tough. The thing about Wade that I always noticed, and I was talking with a coach about this recently on the screen on the offensive player. The offensive player who turns down the screen, more often than not, where defensive concepts will say,

we want you to actually use the screen so then we can dictate where you're going. Wade used to turn it down all day right like that was his big thing like he always was turning the screen down exactly he would just like i you get set up with that nine times out of ten you putting pressure on your big man because he going upstairs to dunk so it was like man be ready for the rejection that was one of the that was one of the biggest, like every coach like that or like the player personnel coaches, the first thing they tell him, T.A., he's going to reject the pick and roll. And he always get to wind up like he about to come

and then he reject it. But you got to be fearful of your big. If your big not right there in the blue, depending side pick and roll, because that's normally when he do it. If they're not in that blue, and blue is when the big, obviously, is in the cover, just in case you get beat.

It's going to hurt you, man. It's going to definitely hurt you. This young team is fun. They get to win against San Antonio. It wasn't easy after what looked like an easy start. Not a surprise. Give me your scouting report. Give me the Tony Allen, no bullshit, scouting report on Memphis Grizzlies.

Oh, man. Well, you know, obviously, we got a electric fan, rookie of the year, you know, and John Morant obviously scabs the limit for his career. I just like the fact that, you know, they changing. They call themselves the new generation, you know. Greer's next generation, they still G&G. So, you know, it all go well. But I have to tell you, man, that's a group of guys, man,

that play together, that's following under Coach Taylor, you know, wisdom and everything, his knowledge on the court. Taylor, you know, wisdom and everything, his knowledge on the court, but guys like Jaron Jackson being back is a big, huge, is a huge fit for those guys. You know, somebody that can spread the floor

off the pick and roll. You know, obviously, we had big rollers and athletic rollers in Clark and Valatunas. You know, that's a lane for the Grizzlies when they go 1-5. But I would have to say, man, all this young experience and this light that we're getting on the Grizzlies now,

the sky's the limit, man. I like each guy on the team, man. Dylan Brooks has shown that, you know, he can play both ends of the court, lock up and get buckets. I like that aspect for the Grizzlies. D. Mel, he shows signs of Tony Allen playing the passing lanes, getting out there causing havoc in the team's offense. Clark, obviously, you know, he's a rim runner.

Every team needs a rim runner. And I just think experience is what they're missing right now. These type games, you know, I think it's going to put them in a position where we need to be far. We need to be playing in the big stage. So it's a young team, man. They under a great coach, Coach Taylor. And I think that, you know, sky's the limit for them, man.

It's early. They're young, man. You know, I'm from the old school, and a lot of people in my era, you know, they was kind of tough on the young guys. Like, it was kind of tough for me being young. And I think with this generation, they just let new guys just play. And I think they can only grow from that. Let's go back to that start for you

because your first round pick, you come into the league 0-4 and your third year, you actually score like 11 points a game, which is the highest for your career. You get more shots, you get into the free throw line more. I know I've heard you talk about your transition of

whether you're at Oklahoma State being like I look, I'm here to get buckets. Like, what's the problem? How hard was that transformation for you? Because I think a lot of young NBA guys come in feeling like, OK, now that I'm out of college, now I'm going to start showing everybody how much I can score. It doesn't always work out that way. No, it was a real rude awakening. way? No, it was a real rude awakening. I think I got to to Memphis. I mean, I think it was just like almost like going to play football. You know, when you start off in a

position and then you get there, they draft you as a quarterback. You get there. He played cornerback. You get what I'm saying? So you thought you were going to score. You thought you were going to Boston to get buckets. Yeah, I thought they was drafting me to tear Paul Pierce screwed. Oh, we got Tony Allen in town. You know, it wasn't one of them type of things.

Man, when I got there, Doc Rivers played a few games. He saw me in practice. You know, he got to the regular season. He was letting me, just filling me out, letting me lose, right? I was doing my thing, trying to do as much as I can in my minutes.

It got down to the regular season. I remember this like yesterday. First game of the season, I want to say, we played against Allen Harrison. Somehow, you know, I don't know, I think we just got beat. I don't know. I think I had started or something. And I know one game, Doc was like, T.A., come here.

I came to the set. And this was after the game. We lost or whatever. He rewinded the tape. And he told me, he was like, yo, look at this. You see who shot the first shot of the game? I looked at the film. I said, I shot the first shot of the game.

And he looked down at the court. And he said, you see that guy over there? That's Paul Pierce. He get paid the big bucks. That means if you want to play on those courts, you need to be doing everything he not doing. That's playing defense, dabbing for loose balls, taking charges, and being a cause of havoc

on the defensive end. And if you got to shoot it, make sure the clock is under four. You get what I'm saying? So I knew right then, like, oh, I don't get no clear outs. We ain't running no two ISO screen flex for T.A. None of those type of options for me. And it was right then and there, like, the adjustment got to come. Like, I need to pay attention more

in these defensive drills. I need to listen more in film. It was like instantly, like, how do I stay on then? What I need to do? All right, I need to be the best in shape. I'm going to be first in the weight room today. I'm going to try to win. I'm going to try to sprint so fast

on these conditioning tests that they're going to be like,. I'm going to try to sprint so fast on these condition tests that they're going to be like, yo, did he just do that? Like, you know what I'm saying? Things of that nature. And I was just working, man. My rookie year. And unfortunately, I was unfortunately, you know, caused injuries to my knee, unfortunately.

But I think that also adjusted me to play like focusing more on defense because it was like time to survive in the league then, like my third year. Boom, right after I get a surgery, I look up in the paper, we didn't trade Al Jefferson, we didn't trade

Delonte Webb, we didn't just trade everybody. Wally Serviak, and then everybody gone. I had to look at the paper again and see did they trade me. But then nobody want no tour of me just yet then. So I kind of think Danny Ainge. You have to ask Danny Ainge why he kept me in that trade. I don't know why he kept me.

Yeah, because they moved what was Ryan Gomes. And they were able to hang on to Rondo because I had always heard that Ainge's argument with McHale was, if I get rid of Rondo, I don't have a point guard. So it was Gerald, it was Al, and Gomes, who actually had a nice little run with you, but that was a team that, you know... I thought it, I mean, because

I thought if Gomes would have stayed one more year, like, if we'd have gave him one more year, I think he would have been one of those Boris D.L. type, you get what I'm saying? Yeah. 12, 13, 14-year career guys. Big shout out to Ryan Gomes. He just, yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, I remember that. Like I was saying, like before I tore my knee, before I tore, when I tore my knee, the next year we was in the finals. You see what I'm saying? We traded for three superstars so i had to i had to learn on the flat quick and defense me speaking paul every day it don't get no better than that and you rehab you get what i'm saying and that's that's what i i like about

you know is we're sitting here and be like hey they're getting rid of all these guys but they got rid of guys for kevin garnett. They bring in Ray Allen, and Pierce kind of had to adjust a little bit. What was your first, like, oh, wow, like this is completely different now in the first few years in, and Doc is still in play. So, you know, you try to lose many games you could at the end of 07.

You've got the injury. You're trying to figure out how you fit in. I mean, that's a great line about checking the newspaper, double-checking you're not moved out because they had to move a bunch of pieces. But give me the first, like, wake-up moment of, like, whoa, this is completely different now. Man, just seeing Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett,

seeing how those guys were, like, they would be in the rookie sessions of working out. Like, they would say, we got time frames where you're going to work out. The young guys, you know, some of the young, young guys about to be old guys, and the old guys come in later. You would think Kevin and Ray would be the guys that would come in later. No, those guys coming in with the rookies and second-year players, getting their workout going so hard, it's like looking at them.

It's like, damn, is that what you're supposed to be doing? It raised your bar of working out up. So it's like, you got to come with it. And then Ticket had like this major pain sergeant-like type vibe when he come in the locker room. And it'll be like, hey, what you doing? You ain't working out?

You didn't work out. It was like if you got caught doing that and Doc seen you, Doc would be like, oh, yeah, he right. You got all this energy. It's your second year in the league. You supposed to be da-da-da-da-da-da. You get what I'm saying? So you didn't want that. So's your second year in the league. You're supposed to be da-da-da-da-da-da. You get what I'm saying? So you didn't want that.

So it always kept me on my grind because it was like I didn't want Dr. C not working. I didn't want Dr. C, Kevin Garnett, and Ray Allen in here working harder than me. You get what I'm saying? Or, like, I had that always on my mind. So I just knew it was real, and I knew we was playing for something better than just getting on ESPN. I knew these guys came here, you know, to get it done, to go to the promised land.

That's winning that trophy. So, I don't know, I just wanted to be a piece to the puzzle, and I knew I had to be, one, in shape, and I had to be in full compliance of what we had going on. Whether it was grabbing a Gatorade or a towel and giving it to a teammate. That's what they needed me to do. I was in compliance. So I bought in early when I saw those guys came.

And that accountability, that leads to the infamous boxing glove story, right? So Pierce, go ahead. Why don't you share that one with us? Whatever you want to do. Because I know there's a lot of versions of it. Yeah, like, you know, Kevin Garnett was in the weight room early, like I was telling you. He would always see us.

And, you know, the young cats, you know, we'll always be arguing. Da-da-da-da-da. Disagreements here. But the building was full of competition. Like, we was competing about everything. Like, oh, man. It was so great. It'd be bets about just anything.

I could beat you in minutes and sprint on the bike at five miles. You know what I mean? Just anything. So I had a situation where, you know, well, we had a situation where Paul Pierce got upset with old Patrick O'Brien and da-da-da. It was words exchanged. And Paul told him, you know what?

When I come back here tomorrow, I'm going to have the gloves. And then everybody started saying, yeah, yeah, we just going to get the gloves. Everybody who got problems. Right? So they came in there with the gloves the next day. So now imagine I was campaigning and bringing the gloves. So I'm like alright let me go

and get man over with cause I don't wanna you know get hurt in the rail room or nothing like that so I picked out the biggest dude I went straight

for Big Baby Davis I said Big Baby Davis come on over here man we ain't even gotta talk about it come on get in this circle man

I swung the first punch like you know I was supposed to. Man, baby cocked back. Boom. Hit me that one time. I fell out. I'm like, man, I quit.

That was right then and there. I knew boxing wasn't for me, man. Boxing was not for me. And Big Baby running around. He running around with his hands up like Ali. I'm the greatest. I'm the greatest. I was like, man, I ain't no boxer. Let's go play one-on-one.

You know, it was one of those type of things. But it was camaraderie to me. It wasn't really like no, you know what I mean? It was like we was just goofing around, having some fun. It's actually just some skill game for the condition. So he knocked you out. He knocked you out. Yeah, man.

He knocked me out. Like, I wasn't concussion protocol or nothing. You know what I'm saying? But, like, the wind and the punch, and you know how those gloves, soft and leather, blew up. I was like, oh, man, this got to be it. This is it.

It was funny, though. Big shout out to big baby dave that's my boy man that's my boy all right so garnett is hey congrats to garnett hall of famer you know and i have i was doing the studio games back when you got drafted i was doing them i did like 80 games that year when you won the title and so i wasn't in the locker room i wasn't't like a beat guy. I'd be back up in the studio, but I have never seen somebody come in and kind of change everything that way. And I imagine you're close with him, the Chicago background, like give me your best Garnett story because he's not always the easiest guy to figure out and he's not there to make friends but i wouldn't ever call him a jerk or anything it just he was he was just an edge that he had every minute you were around him that worked and it worked because of who he had been his resume and the fact that he'd been in the league a while too was like it's time to start winning some games well i'm gonna tell you um around kg man like uh

growing up we just had mutual friends. When he moved to Chicago, obviously a lot of people that I know was around him. Like I said, we had mutual friends. A lot of my people would always tell me about how to get to the league, how to get to the NBA.

They used to watch him and such and such and I should do this, I should do this. I would take advice. I just got a lot of history just knowing about Kevin Garnett before I actually got to the NBA. So when I first got to the NBA, you know, I thought it was real cool that, you know, Kevin Garnett knew exactly who I was. And when I got on the court, that was one of the first things he said. He was like, what's up, little T.A.?

He's like, yeah, I know who you is. I was like, welcome. Congrats. We was on the free throw line. Boom, came back to the line. He was like, yeah, I know what it is. He was like, look, I'm finna bust your ass, though.

And I thought that was just funny because he was so serious. I was so spooked. I didn't really know. I was in awe, shocked, scared, and excited at the same time that he even talking to me then. And, you know, he used to have all his homeboys and stuff sitting in the front row or whatever. I looked to the side.

I knew, like, three of them. I knew three of them. And it went organically, man. We went on. They probably ended up winning. I don't know about the game. But I just remember his first words saying something to me from me getting in the NBA. We was in the Timberwolves Stadium.

Man, ever since then, like, I've been seeing him. He been straight cut just like that. Like, you say it could be, you know, a little rude or whatever. That's just his – that's the way he come off. He just tough bone all the time. Like, hey, what you doing? Like, he get almost that security guard type feel to him. You know, they just doing their job.

They could be mean sometimes, but they just doing their job. And I thought he did the best impression of just on the work ethic side, just showing the youth how to keep working, never giving up. I just thought, like, man, he could have been real full of himself, but he didn't ever display none of that when he was around us. It was always team thing, whether we went out to eat, whether we went out, whether we went to a banquet, or whether we had a team function.

He made sure everybody was together. I can't say that about him. His work ethic, it goes without saying. Like I say, he the first one in the gym, last one to leave, Mr. 20 at 10. Great Hall of Famer, good friend of mine. I'm so happy that he made it to the Hall of Fame, man. And I really realized why he was going so hard, why he would always be on the young cats,

or why he would always get upset if something don't execute while it's properly planned. And when I saw him get on that stage, man, I damn near went in tears. Just seeing like, dang, that's why he worked so hard. That's why he was so serious and watching film.

That's why he would, you know, snap before the media come in, curse our teammates out sometimes when we don't play well. It all made sense. He was doing it for to be the greatest or try to be one of the greatest that they call Hall of Fame,

like they do all the greats, you know? And I like his end of speech. I liked everything about how they went and took place, man. And KG, man. Big shout out to KG, man. Hall of Fame. Put some respect on that.

We know Pierce and LeBron didn't like each other. What did you understand about that? What was the deal behind that? They still don't like each other. This is what I honestly think. And Paul a good friend of mine. I don't know. But I just always thought it was just the word king.

We grown men got the young cat coming in that's calling him king. You know what I mean? And then it was like at the time, you know, these were the conglomerates of the league. You got Paul, KG, Ray. You know what I mean? It's like, what?

King. We ain't calling no money no damn King. King. You know what I said? And at the time, it was like KG. It was like he was KG. So it was like, oh, man. And then Paul was in Paul Pierce. I was like he was KG. So it was like, oh man. And then Paul was in Paul Pierce,

like, I was like, I'm going to call him the best small forward in the league. He was like, yo, well, I look invisible. It was one of those situations.

And I think that fired him up throughout the whole year. Every year he played against him. Like, I thought that that was the main reason. And he had a lot of hype, you know, coming out of high school. You know,

we was like, yo, who is this kid? Who is this kid? And it was instant beef as soon as we got on the court. Kevin Garnett in his face. Yeah, yeah. Paul Pierce talking Craig.

And it was like, it was only right for me for that to, like, fall Pierce, talking crazy. And it was like, it was only right for me to have, for that to, like, fall on me, too. Like, yeah, the heck with the king? Yeah, who's the king? You know what I'm saying? So I was right along with it. But more importantly, man, we had to respect this game.

And that's how that team, when you're beefing like that, somebody, they like you, but they can't respect you at the moment in the heat of the battle. That's what I think. I saw LeBron talk back to Pierce. Would he say anything to KG? Would he say stuff

back to KG the way he would talk to Pierce when you guys are out there? Especially that 2010 series. It was so... Or 2008, really. 2008, yeah. 2008.

It was a lot of trash talk, but LeBron was a kid then, man. LeBron was number 2019. It was however old he was. Maybe, what, 12? LeBron was around that time. He would have been in the league in, what, 03? So, probably 23 years old,

something like that, maybe. I'll look it up now. He wasn't really all the way, but he was causing havoc. And, you know, we was the, we was the, we was the big three to get through. And I think that's what

motivated him to go over there with Dwayne Wade. I mean, and Paul Pierce used to be at that man's head every time. I remember he scored 50 and fouled out. Paul Pills scored 50 and fouled out. And I remember that game.

That was probably one of the best exciting games. I think Paul hit 50, LeBron hit 49. I think I told LeBron for the last shot, I told him, yeah, good DTA. I spoke to third person. He missed. He turned around. He said, and I just missed.

I knew I was then in his head. I knew it was then. I was in his head because if he wasn't tripping, he'd have just walked back. But it was for the game, too. He shot it from deep. I thought he made it. I hadn't played the whole fourth quarter. I get in and put in

for one possession. I'm just so amped up with Paul. The way Paul talks so bad about him in the huddle. Like, he ain't that. You got it.

And you, da, da, da. And I'm believing this. I'm actually believing. I'm like, man, I just saw this man dunk on people here. You tell him. You know what I'm saying?

But I got to stay firm on who I am. So I went out there and got to stop and here you tell me you know what i said but i gotta stay firm on who i am so i went out there and got to stop and told him that you know he said man i just missed i love that you just admitted yeah you were like not only did i say this and then you're like i just now to update the story admitted that i did it in third person. All right, let me not take up your entire day. Let me leave you with this because I asked you before, but you complimented Dwayne Wade. So I'm going to follow up again on it instead.

You added Dwayne to the guy you had trouble with. Give me a guy who was at a certain level, but you could tell when you tipped it off, he didn't love the fact that he was in Memphis and having to deal with you guarding him. Hey, hold on. It was a lot of people like that. See, a lot of people.

I'm talking about a lot of people. And in this type of situation, you would have to probably name names because it was a lot of them. You hear me? Like, it was a lot of guys that came in the building, never got their average every time they played. You see what I'm saying? It was certain guys.

I ain't going to lie. It was certain guys that used to be like, all right, I ain't going to try to kill or give my numbers until T.A. sit down. It was your favorite superstar used to act like that. You see what I'm saying? Mine? Yeah.

Your favorite superstar. Are you talking. Mine? Yeah. Your favorite superstar. Are you talking about Steph? No. Well, I mean, Steph already came out and told the world, hey, T.A. was one of the toughest. You know, so I big salute to Steph,

but it wasn't him, though. It wasn't him. But I'm just saying that to say, man, it's a lot of them, man. I ain't gonna lie, man. What it was, Paul Pierce, man, he pretty much told me, man, if you could stick me, you could just stick about just about anybody in the league. All these attributes I got in my game, the step back, the head fake,

the spin, the fade, my body big, you know what I mean? Pierce on the angle thing had everybody. He just had the angles. He didn't have to go fast. I mean, because he was actually more athletic than people gave him credit for angles. He didn't have to go fast. I mean, because he was actually more athletic than people gave him credit for. He just didn't have to do it. Exactly. So it would be easy for me to

try to study somebody who was just like one dimension. Like, if you could just catch and shoot, I'm going to lock you up. Because all I got to do is be physical through these screens, going through these down screens, coming over these pick and roll, and just stay in front of you.

You get what I'm saying? That's how I feel about a guy that can't dribble. Now, if you could dribble and your jump shot wasn't that great, I'd give you a cushion. You'd have to beat me over the head. You know what I'm saying? I'd lay contest. You know what I'm saying?

And then you got those superstars who can just get to the line all the time. You know what I'm saying? If I knew if I stayed out of foul trouble, don't foul this guy. Nine times out of ten, he gonna be shooting two for a left. You know what I'm saying? And I conditioned my body. I did all that, but if you want to just throw a name in there to

keep this sauced up, let's see. We'll see a guy like we'll say but no, he was let's see. We'll see a guy like, we'll see a, but no, he was, it's a lot.

You got me thinking, I ain't thought about none of my players in my era in a while, man. I've been looking at the new generation, man. But, I don't know. I don't know.

I can't even give you one. I'm, I't even give you one I'm stuck right now I think you're being nice and you don't want to give out any names no that's cool I'm asking I just got out of controversy man with my boy Draymond that's my dog I didn't want to go there

you guys are cool? I mean it's respect it's a respect. You guys are cool? I thought you could jam on. I mean, it's respect. It's a respect thing, you know. We ain't buddy buddies or nothing, but, you know, he the type of guy, man, you can have a glass of wine and a cigar with, man, and talk about some old times. He one of them type of guys. I just didn't want that to go back to that.

But, like I said, I can't give you nobody right now, man. I can't give you nobody, man. That's, hey, man, this was great. You gave me plenty. I know, because I don't want to take anyone's name, especially a young kid like Davion Mitchell at Baylor, but his nickname, Off Night, man, you were the original Off Night, especially in Memphis.

So I appreciate the time and a lot of respect for you all hard man you know it's all hard man first team anytime when we do this is love man i enjoy myself as well man all right you can follow tony allen that's a a triple o triple zero uh g9 yeah that's tony allen on twitter jeff garland joins us and this is my first time i've actually had a chance to talk with you i 29. So that's Tony Allen on Twitter. Jeff Garland joins us. And this is my first time I've actually had a chance to talk with you. I guess, did you ever do any of the ESPN stuff to promote anything? Because I know every now and then guys would kind of look forward to it.

I know you're a huge sports fan. They bring you by. Next thing you know, you book for like 20 shows and everybody hates it. Yeah, I did once. Did all this stuff. I would do it again. I enjoyed it. It's a little much, but...

It's a lot, right? Mm-hmm. Jeff is eating peanut butter jelly. What do we have, a waffle sandwich there? Because that was a little bit more intense than just the... Whole grain waffle, organic peanut butter. Yeah. Actually, this is about as bad as I eat.

Yeah, that's a big thing for you. You just cut out sugar, huh? And it was just on? Yep. Just, that's it. Yeah. That's it. End of the story.

Yeah. There's nothing else to it. What did you go, what year did you go to ESPN? Do you remember? Do you remember, what were you promoting? I'm guessing a movie that I made or Cur or curb or something. I, it's all a blur, like, you know, but I did enjoy myself. I like going from building to building and, you know, uh, at ESPN, there's a, um, a minimum level of, um, of, um,

a minimum level of how good somebody is. Like there's a nice hard floor. So everybody was pretty gosh darn good. There is a glass ceiling and most people don't break the glass ceiling. But in terms of the floor, it's solid. And you can't always say that. I turned down one in espn uh recently it was about they wanted to talk about why i love the cubs and when you limit yourself like that it's a boring conversation yeah we really we really are obsessed though like on the sports

side like trying to get celebrities like celebrities have never been more valuable where everything that's content it's like okay do you want these guys talking about this topic? And it's like, Hey, if this guy owns a Cubs hat, let's book him. And I know you're. Yeah. Yeah. And it's by the way, I want to really be clear. Actors are boring as shit. You have to know about actors. It takes no intelligence to be a good actor, to be a good comedian, to be a good writer, to do what you do. You need a modicum of intelligence and talent. Whereas an actor can be just be good at being an actor but they think they can go out like on a talk show and just be interesting no boarsville man i hate when i'm on when i'm

following an actor on like a late night talk show you don't like to fall i would think you would want them to open for you because then you could just my man I want to follow Dave Chappelle I want to follow greatness because I want to be measured against it I want to rise up you know and do my best um if you if you don't have confidence of course you want to follow someone who sucks but I don't have an ego like right now you could tell me, look, my producers wanted you. And I go, really? You know, but I didn't. I'd be okay with it.

I don't really. I mean, I like to recognize ego and say no thank you to ego. But I'm supremely confident. And I'm honored to be on your show. So if you're confident and you're grateful, what can't you do? What can't you enjoy? Okay. So you just said that about, that was a, that was a flamethrower to actors. Why are you so unimpressed with actors? Because I've been one for years and it takes, you memorize your lines and either you're genuine and real and someone believes you or they don't. And also,

I can tell you flat out, if you're an actor and you audition for Curb or anything comedic, do not try and be funny. Let the lines speak for themselves, the situation, and either you're funny or you're not. There's many levels of it. There's people who can really put a spin on things that make it funnier. Those people are few and far between. They're single digits, man. And so I watch people who I refer to as enemies of comedy. Enemies of comedy are actors who think they're great at comedy, and they're not. But they'll shove their, quotes, comedic skills down your throat.

When you guys have a new episode of Curb, how does the script process of that work? How does that work? Is it the same as everything else? Because it feels like when we get it on our end, there had to have been room for improvisation in different versions. It is improvised but i gotta tell you what larry david writes right from the get-go is generally perfect like literally perfect sublime how's that yeah because that's not usually how writing works no it's not everybody makes you do it over and over and over again other people besides with other people besides Larry David, and there's a lot more work.

I mean, Larry David works hard. But once Larry David writes something, it's a gift to me, always. It's just a gift. Like, wow, thank you. I don't even have to try and make that funny. So if he's writing, though, he's writing, is he writing it word for word, or is he writing the concept?

Is he writing the scene out? And then that's where you he writing it word for word or is he writing the concept is he writing the scene out and then that's where you kind of know where the end beat is but then it's up to you to kind of take it there it's the entire scene it's a paragraph or two about what has to happen in the scene but what you say and how you say it um is your choice and you adjust every take. So the panty scene is your favorite. I've seen the interviews where he's wearing women's panties. I don't know that that's my favorite scene. I just saw on Instagram the other day, somebody reposted the scene from last season where Larry David talks about how

special his hands are, that he's really good at washing dishes. And it's, I love that scene. That scene is perfection to me. Yes, I love the scene where he happens to be wearing ladies' panties, because you're never prepared to see Larry David in women's panties. You're not. And I wasn't. And I generally don't laugh a lot. I mean, we laugh all day, but usually it's outside. I mean, actually, no, we laugh all day because curb is one of the only shows where the actors, when you make another actor laugh, we keep it in, you know, it's not like you shouldn't laugh go to your you know be

you just as long as you're real it doesn't matter you know so how how would that seem because i've seen you talk about it where you knew what the punch line is like larry pulls his pants down he's wearing women's panties because he had had to hide them yeah because they were yours but then he lied and it was like the whole thing So even though you know what's coming, like how would that be written out? Like how does that get to you guys as you kind of do a read-through? We don't do a read-through.

At all? We don't rehearse. We don't do read-throughs. We don't do rehearsal. I get the script before we go into production. And then, you know, as all the scripts, it's like one of the treats that I get is i get to read these outlines and they're very in depth they're about seven pages normally a script for a sitcom is like 30 pages ours are seven pages and we improvise the

rest okay that's kind of that's kind of what i thought now how bad it's funny because i was i would always think that like the weird thing with the role on the show is you play his manager yeah is how like here's one of my favorite tv show stories ever is the guy i don't know if you ever watched the wire but that's a wire please every episode so the actor who plays bubbles yes the heron actor lovely guy right i forget his name i gotta look it up right now it's really if you could look that up for me i ran into him whenever i stay in chicago i'd say like the thompson or something like that so i'd stay right there and then i would run into him and the first couple times i saw him i didn't want to say anything to him because i just didn't want to bug him you know what i mean i was like i'm not

gonna bug him and like the third time he was like, I know who you are. And I was like, oh shit. I was like, I love the show. I didn't want to bug you. Whatever. He's like, I'm going to wish you bugged me. He's like, you know, we're finishing up power. He's like, I have nothing to do.

I'm just kind of hanging out. So I started asking him about this excerpt of a book where in this book about to wire Mark Wahlberg runs into that book. We keep going. Right. He runs in to the act of the place bubbles and sees him at this party in Hollywood. He's like book. We keep going. Okay, right. He runs in to the actor that plays Bubbles and sees him at this party in Hollywood. He's like, I'm so proud of you, man. You cleaned up your shit.

You cleaned up your act. He's like, what? Is that true? Yes. And so I asked him about it. Andre Royal is the actor's name. And he was so nice about it, but he's like just sitting there laughing and he kind of has the same accent and the same cadence in person that he even had in the show and so i'm

going to imagine actually happens to you where people don't quite like does that actually happen where people think you're the manager well no that happened at the beginning of the show the beginning a lot like i get stopped on. What's it like managing all that money? But also, What an awful question, by the way. What a terrible question. But also, my character doesn't manage his money.

As a matter of fact, this season we introduce a new character played by Patton Oswalt, who's our money manager. That's good. I don't even manage his money, let alone, you know. Patton has one of the greatest lines in Veep, which is hard to come by because Veep is so good.

But when they have Mike McClintock up and Doyle and Patton Oswalt are with Jonah Ryan, who's Timothy Simons, and they're in the room and they're like, he looks like Yosemite Sam and Patton Oswalt says with Jonah Ryan, who's Timothy Simons. And they're in the room and they're like, he looks like Yosemite Sam and Pat Oswalt says, without the credibility. That's a good line. It's such a good line. You'll have to ask him if you came.

All right. So here's a question I've always had, because I think the audience that grew up with Seinfeld and then got to know Larry, they were like, oh, wait. They're like, what's going on? They're like, is Larry the brains behind all this? Which is unfair to Jerry Seinfeld because you can't do that to him. But one thing I always thought was interesting, I was like, George is constantly on the show dating women that would never date this guy in real life. Was that something that Larry

decided like, let's just make George a that for some no reason whatsoever has attractive women interested him throughout multiple seasons of the show ryan ryan why are you asking me this when was i ever even on seinfeld how the fuck would i know oh i don't mean it because you would have been on seinfeld i mean like knowing larry no idea no, but you watched it. Knowing Larry. No, I would say he doesn't think that way. Okay. All right.

I just always thought that was something Larry never purposely. I love that. I took you aback by that. Um, Larry doesn't do anything for like, uh, let's do it a different way. Let's, he just thinks the Larry David way, whatever way that is, it works.

Okay, I have another question here. On season two of Different Strokes. I love it, though. Go. I want you to even ask. Ask me about Family Matters. How did you invent Urkel? Ask me how I invented Urkel.

I would love that. Wait, you weren't Newman? What? No, I'm just kidding. You're special. I would love that. Wait, you weren't Newman? What? No, I'm just kidding. You're special. I read about that. I would have rather had you watch it. I want you to watch it.

Please. No, I know. I need to watch it. No, but you don't need to. You could. Yeah, I should have. No, you could have. Don't ever say should, Ryan. Be nice to yourself. By the way, do you think there was a delay in me agreeing to do this show? No, I dig you,

man. You're, you're excellent. You're excellent. So I am, uh, yes, you're excellent.

Leave it at that. Okay. But I, in the interview that you did, I thought it was really cool in the way you did it. And now this is why after I done, I was like, I got to make sure I check that out.

Is that you kind of did like two different shows in your home so like it felt like you in the lead up to it you're like i'm gonna i'm gonna take chances in the the second one because i nailed the first one which then it turned out everybody liked the second version of what you did in the taping better than the first one which is no no no i liked it better oh netflix like the other one better no netflix didn't have, no. I liked it better. Oh, Netflix liked the other one better? No, Netflix didn't have an... No one has an opinion except me. I mean, I'll ask my friends, I'll screen it for people, I talk to the director. But what it was, was I felt so good about my first show that I filmed. It's like, I nailed everything I wanted to. That the second show, I kind of

went way looser and had more fun. And so that's the one I used. Why'd you have more fun? There was nothing to accomplish except joy. And when it's only about being funny and being joyful and there is no agenda. Now, mind you, when I go up, let's say, at the comedy store doing a spot, I don't have an agenda. I don't have anything. I mean, I might want to accomplish something,

but in general, it's just staying in shape, going on stage, which now, as we speak, prior to the pandemic, I think the longest I ever went without doing standup was two weeks. And now we're at a year and a half for me. What's staying in shape? I like that phrase. I like how you say that. Well, it's like, you know, football players got to do the drills, got to do the weights, got to do all the stuff, got to read the playbook. Well, when I go on stage at a comedy club, that's what I'm doing. The exact same thing. So when I film a special, I'm in the best shape mentally and physically to make it work. I think I probably should have been more specific about it then because I get that concept of it. But like, when do you know

as a comic comic you're like all right i've got this i've got the delivery i've got the pauses yeah okay in your career or in a specific show honestly you can answer both okay so first i'm gonna i'm gonna go back to the special for a second there was a a couple in the audience that I was talking to. And it was an unrequited love. It was something that I had been through that I had understood. And I had more fun with them. And I made fun of them and myself.

Like, I never want anyone to feel bad when I'm doing my comedy. If anyone's going to look bad, it's me. And I remember thinking to myself, as this was happening, I cannot believe that this is being captured by the cameras for my special. This is something that would happen in a club and nobody would know about the next day. And it was blowing my mind as it was happening. Now in a career, you can have more.

I think that there's two things that you can compare stand-up comedy to. Number one, that's jazz. When you're really funny, you can improvise from an outline. You can have a classic piece of material, but you do it differently every time, and you play with it. But career is really about, you can compare it to golf, you know, whereas, you know, you have a great golf game. Yeah, good luck repeating that the next time. Whereas in stand-up comedy, I'm going to jump here.

Same with golf, though. I have a golf – I had a golf teacher who was very old. He was in his 90s teaching me, and he was brilliant. That's a good score. And he – yes, for me, that would be like a hole-in-one every hole. That's the same thing as me getting in the 90s. Anyhow, he was telling me that he taught, amongst other people, Mark McGuire. And he said, Mark McGuire, he'd show me where he'd hit the balls, one after another, another.

He goes, that's Mark McGuire. He's supposed to do that. Tiger Woods, if he makes a bad shot, should get angry because he's supposed to hit it good. I'm not supposed to hit it good. I'm supposed to, you know, every once in a while, look at me, you try and do the repeated stuff. Well, in the world of comedy, I'm Tiger Woods. I'm Mark McGuire. In terms of'm supposed to night after night, be that funny and be that good. But it is about it's pretty difficult, just like repeating a golf game or a stroke. It's very it's the same thing with comedy.

What's it like being in a terrible mood and knowing you're going to go out in a few minutes. Okay. I've done that hundreds of times. Pissy, not feeling good. Well, guess what? It's my job. And it's my job that they have a good time. My job is to ease other people's pain. Screw my pain. My pain is not about, that's not what it's about. Unless I can make something funny about it. It's not what it's about. My job is your pain. What kind of crappy day did you have? What is your stomach hurt?

Does the woman you love love you, not love you? Is she giving you crap? Is work good? My job is to ease your pain. So if I feel like crap, tough. That's not my job. My job is not to worry about how I feel. Yeah. Cause in the second part of the special, when you talked about the unrequited love there and you, you were opening up and you were bringing them in where I know whenever that,

that wall is broken down, like immediate, if you're in the audience, you're like, shit, like, I don't want anybody to notice me. Like, I remember being in a really small place and the girl I was with was way out of my league. so the comedian was like basically hitting on her well you know look i'm being humble no no no that's not being humble you were grateful to be with this great woman say it that way because you should have been grateful to be with you hey look i'm trying to keep it together over here so i have goals goals. Being kind to yourself is a very, very difficult. Hey, I went on stage, by the way, just taken with where you're at. I performed the night my mother died because I forgot to cancel the show and I can't cancel last minute. What time did you find out? It was like in the afternoon she died. I was in shock. And that night I had a show

and I had to improvise because I had nothing planned. And I actually had a great show. It was a, it was a show that's kind of saved me. How old were you? This was three years ago, four years ago. Did you tell anyone that you were around? Like was anyone backstage? Did anyone anyone know i don't know if i told anyone what did you do after you got done with your set uh i don't mean to sound you know i uh got in my car went home as i did any other time and you know when someone dies it's that you forget about it. Oh no, they're dead.

I can't talk to them. You forget about it. Like that's what happens for that year, that first year of recovery. When someone dies, it's the in and out. So I'm sure my drive home, I was a big bowl of the in and out. But I was grateful that I had comedy that night at first prior to the show. No, I wasn't grateful. I was like, Oh, screw it. I got to go do a set. How can you feel worse than when your mom dies? But afterwards I was so grateful, so grateful. Not that my mom died,

that I had comedy. Yeah. I think we were going to give you the benefit of the doubt on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, it is a really great point about anybody that does anything that's performance related, that this becomes an escape for any of us that do anything. I mean, look, what you're doing is you're up in a stage. You're really putting yourself out there. I mean, we were always doing a show, Jeff. We would be shielded from realizing like what

our audience is, which is a completely different dynamic because you forget, you're just sitting there, Van Pelt and I are just going back and forth a couple hours a day. But I'll, I'll, I'll know at least for anything that I was ever going through. Once I knew I was on the air, I wasn't thinking about anything else so that I think people may be hearing you tell that story, can't understand that that was actually an escape from your day, even though you were at the center of attention and you had to perform for others. Right.

Well, that I had it, that I had this skill and this environment to hang out in. What the hell are you drinking? What is that? Just water. Just a big water jug over here. Oh, that's a jug. Yeah. It looked like some sort of like you were having some sort of one of those beers with like caffeine in it.

Yeah, I'm just throwing some beers back here, 11 a.m. L.A. time. Just wanted to get loose for this interview. Okay, I have talked to other comedians about this, but I find this part of it fascinating in that when you're coming up and you're younger, and I'll only speak for myself in my my industry is that when you're younger, you're like, I'm better than that guy. I'm better than this guy. And you have this kind of edge to you,

but you also have a lot of wasted negative energy because you're just sitting there comparing yourself to everybody else and all this shit. The one word you're not using is ego, man. Oh, there's plenty of that. It's all, it's all ego crap.

And then, you know, you evolve and go ahead you finish your question okay so i imagine a lot of that stuff is is the exact same way in comedy where you're looking around like why is this guy people laughing at him or whatever like i'm better than him how do you balance the ego and the edge oh hold on hold on all right go ahead answer no no because hey dude listen to this okay you You are saying that you're looking around going, I'm better than him. No. My problem when I was a young comedian, yeah, I knew who I

was better than or not as good as and all that stuff. But comparison is a dead end street, comparing. But also what I didn't like and where I was an asshole is if you weren't funny, why are you here? What are you doing? I didn't really, as long as somebody was funny and they were really working hard, I didn't have much judgment. I had a lot of judgment for people taking up time on stage, the's time the other comedians time it's like if you stink get the hell out of here um and i think everybody should be free to try but at a certain point quit please okay but that's that's not totally like i i think whatever your approach to it was if you at an early age were already okay with people

you're competing with and that's a credit to you but as you you kind of veer into like i make a joke with my friends that i'll say like bad comedians kind of offend me because i can't believe no one in their life wasn't like hey you've never been funny like this isn't funny or the people that are your friends who was who's the person to do that who's the person to say what the hell are you doing by the way plenty of people well to this day tell me i'm not funny but when i was younger people like what you can't admit i i have uh um someone in my life who was important to me but at an early age, they told me that I was being unrealistic and I wouldn't make it. I made them wait in line,

a long line to have me sign my book when it came out. Okay. So there's, there's the edge there though. By the way, Michael Jordan, it drove Michael Jordan. I mean, more than any athlete i've ever seen no and you guys are basically the same there you go by the way i look at adversity as my friend adverse i once had dinner i did this movie wally and uh the guy who made it uh andrew stanton who also made um finding nemo talented guy, crazy talented guy. And Peter Gabriel, who'd done some of the music for WALL-E.

We had dinner together. And I remember the topic of our dinner, which was delightful, was adversity and how we all react to adversity. Adversity can feel like a punch in the gut. Well, once you recover from that punch, what's your attitude? What are you going to do? And for me, I rise to adversity. So if you tell me I can't, that motivates me for sure. But I'm not going to get into an argument with you about it. Who was the first comedian that pulled you aside or saw you perform? Somebody that you looked up to. Was there ever the first moment of somebody who was established telling you that you could do this?

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

Nope. People said nice things and I appreciate it. But there wasn't anybody early on who stuck their neck out or who really took me aside. And it's a shame because I love doing that. Like if I see a young comedian, I love taking them aside and going, man, look at you. This is great. People don't do that a lot. And so I did have people say positive

things. Don't get me wrong. But I was, it was a week after my 20th birthday that I auditioned. And I'm sorry. I inherently knew I was funny. And I passed auditions the first night and my career was off. And now I'm next week, two weeks, it'll be 39 years, 39 years that I've been doing this. I remember I was on stage with John Mulaney. We're doing a conversation and John Mulaney, I couldn't love his comedy anymore. his comedy anymore. And I realized that I had been doing comedy longer than he'd been alive. That was weird to me. That was a big, weird one. Before we finish up, I remember listening to a Jon Hamm interview from Mad Men, and it had taken him a long time to have that moment., he's from St. Louis, so I think that plays into it. I've constantly mentioned how I just think people from the Midwest,

I just think you're wired better than the rest of us, to be honest with you. Well, we have a work ethic, I have to say. And I see it's very supportive. It's pretty delightful. It's approachability, though. It's an at. I'm not saying like the entire region is happy, but there's an at peace element that I think that you have. I agree with you.

I am. I'm being a Chicagoan, but my name of my special is our man in Chicago. Being a Chicagoan really is. That's given me that. And my father are the backbones of who I am. So when I listened to him, and so we're on the same page with this, I think that's part of it too, but he, he had his break so much later that I think it made him better, better is the, maybe the wrong wrong word here but i think there's some similarities there with you jeff is that you blow up later and you appreciate it more it's not a matter

appreciate it more you understand it more it makes more sense to you you can enjoy it more um whereas um you know what a 24 year old who makes suddenly, they have no perspective. And I've watched many people go through the Believe the Hype. I've seen the Believe the Hype and them never leave, which is so sad. But a guy like Jon Hamm, who is so spectacular, and he just did Curb again this year. I just worked with him about a month ago. His work ethic and how special he is, it's delightful to be around somebody who, from the get-go, didn't believe the hype. I have never believed any hype in me. You know what I mean? It's like, I know I got to go out and earn it every time.

Okay. Your least favorite thing about being attached to Curb is what? I already know the answer. You do? Yeah. Because I'm searching. My least favorite thing. Every day it happens to you. I have to leave my house.

No. I'm being serious, though. No, I know you like being at home. No, it's pitching people pitching you to pitch to larry oh well that happens that all right i'm about to next week i'll be in chicago week after that new york and i can tell and then i'm going to detroit for a bat mitzvah and i can tell you all three of those places, I'll get at least a dozen people coming up to me. Hey, I had this thing happen. It's just like curb. And I say,

I want to be clear. I'm one of the executive producers. I am one of the creative voices. It's Larry David. And my creative voice is about helping him get his vision on screen. Know that. But I have never pitched him. Ever. Ever. I've never said, this would make a good scene. This would make a good episode.

Never. Never. And yet these people think that they're going to come up to me and their story. And let me tell you something. people think that they're going to come up to me and their story. And let me tell you something. No one has ever told me a good idea that I would go, Oh my God, I don't want to hear them. So yes, that, that stinks, but I'm still nice to them. But, uh, all right. Well, so now I'm going to pitch you one. This is going to be the one that works. Are you really pitching me? Why are you doing this to yourself? Because I'm going to try.

I'm going to try. Something happened. Hold on. You're so upset. You were like, this is going so well. Why would you do that? Hey, what is it you don't like about curb? All right. I'll figure that out because it's going to work. All right. Now I'm going to do the one thing you don't like about working on curb. All right, Ryan, go ahead. So I'm parking my car in front of my house a couple weeks ago. What do you want, cotton? Leave out the details. It doesn't matter.

Polyester, like combo? There's an old man. There's an old man, really old. I need the cotton answer. Dry fit, tight. Oh, dry fit. Just got done working out. Okay. So I park, middle of the day. I see an old answer. Dry fit. Tight. Oh, dry fit. Just got done working out. Okay.

So I park, middle of the day. I see an old man shuffling. He's got a members-only jacket, long pants. He's all buttoned up, head to toe, shuffling hat on. Yes. And then I notice about a block behind him a huge younger guy's following him. And I go, okay, what's going on here? I was like, something's weird because this this old man's walking in through my neighborhood by himself. And now this old, this younger guy's

following him and he's big and he looks a little, he looks a little rough around the edges. So I sit in my car and I observe, I'm trying to figure it out. And so then the guy, the old guy walks past my house, the young guy hides behind my garbage cans in the alley. And so now I'm like, oh Jesus, like, is this guy going to rob this old guy? I go, I don't fucking need this right now. I go, but I can't not do anything. And I'm looking at the younger guy and he's big. I was looking at his hands. They were really big. So I was like, well, I'm not going to let him keep following this old guy around my neighborhood. And the old guy's crossing the street and this young guy's looking at him. He's hiding behind my garbage. I

go up to him. I go, Hey, is there something going on here that I need to know about? Like, what are you doing? He goes, Oh, he goes, I'm a volunteer. He has Alzheimer's. So if I walk too close to him, he forgets that I'm with them and he freaks out. So I just watch him from far enough away. What if I told you when you started telling me the story, that's the exact thing I envisioned. My, my ask me i'll be i will act it out you're on curb now even go ask me say is there something i should uh i i've been following him so go ahead okay uh so you want me to start over and now you're gonna no no no you just approach me i'm behind i'm oh yeah okay all right all right all right we're like uh hey what's going on with you why why are you following this old guy that's my my dad. He's got a lot of pride. He likes thinking that he goes out

for walks by himself. That's what I envisioned. Right. But see, here's the punchline. Larry encounters the two people, and then he thinks, he goes to you, he goes, I'm going to start volunteering. And you're like, what do you mean you're going to volunteer? Be like, you don't want to volunteer. You don't want to help anybody. No, I'm going to start volunteering. It'd be like, it's perfect for me. Ryan, Ryan, Ryan. Why did you just do this in a public forum? Now, privately, no one would ever know about it, but you just, for all your listeners, they showed you, by the way, you did me a favor.

I'll tell you why. Great. Because they just listened to that. They knew it wasn't funny. They knew. And then suddenly he decides for no reason he's going to volunteer. Ryan, leave it to Larry David to come up with the shows, which is what I do. And yet I can tell him ideas all the time. That's number one. Number two, your listeners are now like, oh, never gonna bother jeff with that crap perfect yeah right i did you a huge favor yeah you did me a huge favor that is and by the way can i also say that's maybe

in the 50 percentile of how good or bad the ideas i hear yeah but larry would want to volunteer because then he wouldn't have then he wouldn't have to be friends with the person. You stop now because now you're making an ass of yourself. Well, I had to. I had to at the end. I had to. I knew we were doing well. All right. I appreciate your time.

Ryan, I appreciate your time. It was an honor to be on your show until you pitched me. Is that how you look at it? Because I think you should look at it as that was really funny that he made it terrible at the end because it was going so well before no i i think to myself oh that poor guy and his ego really yeah yeah that's not how i i think the audience the audience on this end is like that's that's funny that you you did you did you set it up to bomb we've done it a few times before it's kind of a thing we've done a few times. Well, I don't know. That's the thing I'd want to be associated with. I don't get it. So, well, Brian, what makes your podcast different? Well, I do a really wonderful interview. I have

a great time, but then at the end, I ruin it. I figure out some way that I can ruin it. That's very curb. Yeah, well, there you go. You can have that one. you would ruin it every time at the end so that so feel good about that ryan i do i feel great man um thanks a lot jeff we ever can help let us know my pleasure all right you want details bye i drive a ferrari 355 cabri. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible.

Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, rr at gmail.com. First of all, mine's blown this week on the Kyle check-in on the dimensions. Kyle, have you been getting a lot of feedback on your various social media outlets? Yeah, I think mine's blown. But you know what? People would say, if you listen to One Shiny Podcast, you weren't very surprised. Yeah, I don't understand where people thought you were this ratty coding guy.

Yeah, I saw 170. I'm like, are you kidding? I'd be embarrassed. You wouldn't even go outside, dude. Let's also be nice to the people that weigh 170, all right? So relax. I just, I don't know. We've got a good audience here, so people learning about you for the first time but yeah i

i guess i was kind of thrown off by how many people thought you were sort of like smaller you know not stereotype here but like a computer guy that just you know as soon as you got off with this you were you were on minecraft all day you know like you're you're a little edgy guy you're from you're from a blue collar area like all your stories that you've told you know you think a guy who weighs 170 is going to sell a guy a broken xbox for a bag of weed probably not you know i mean probably not maybe maybe guys 170 do that too i don't know okay here we go um and the thing is is people still't, I can't believe so Rudy that people still think this is a nighting. Like people are still doing it every day.

That's not sir. Pause Rudy. And I'm like, no, it isn't. They, they still think it is. I appreciate it.

But no, unfortunately I'm not a night. Wish I was. That'd be sick. You'd be into it. You'd be a good night. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't was that'd be sick you'd be into it you'd be a good night oh yeah oh yeah yeah i mean you know i don't know though i think you'd be into the gear i think you'd be into the like i know you like walking around outside and stuff those guys nights

are a lot of meetings a lot of rules yeah others in the meetings they are outside a decent amount i i would think um i don't know though if there was a knights of the round table committee i think you'd be like a solo night i'd be up doing my own thing for sure like i don't i don't know, though. If there was a Knights of the Roundtable committee, I think you'd be like a solo knight. I'd be up doing my own thing for sure. I don't take rules well. So maybe you wouldn't be good. Yeah. I mean, combat, I probably wouldn't be great

at the hand-to-hand combat stuff as a guy who's 5'10", 160. I think you would take your helmet off and your locks would tumble down across your face and people would be like, oh, wow, this guy. Yeah, there'd be like an aura, but nobody's actually ever seen me fight or joust.

You know, I just have like this, Oh, I've heard he's good at jousting. Nobody wants to challenge him, but I actually don't know what I'm doing. You know, like actually he just makes fun of other people's outfits and he's

friends with these other bigger nights. So nobody really messes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Let's get to the point here. 23 years old, five,

nine, one 35. I'm a skinny Jew. here. 23 years old, 5'9", 135. I'm a skinny Jew. Wait, can I say that? Yeah, you can. Yeah. That's like that. He said it.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know the rules anymore. Guys, check it in. Great endurance. All right. Sorry for the inside baseball question, but I have an entertainment-specific quandary. I work at a mid-sized film and television studio in TV development.

Last week, I was promoted from assistant to creative executive, which is relatively unheard of, especially for someone as young as me. It's a big deal for my career, salary, et cetera, but it also provides an obstacle. I've always wanted to be a writer. And before this promotion was looking around for writer assistant jobs in order to help myself get in a room. However, with this big promotion, I feel locked into doing development for at least another year. By that time, I'll tell you, your place didn't promote you thinking you're only going to do it for a year. By that time, I'll start to be known around the industry as a development exec and not a writer. It's obviously not a bad thing to be a young and relatively successful executive. No, but I don't want to stray too far into the realm of executive and have people only take me seriously in that sphere.

Okay. As a person who's gone into writing from a career in radio, how hard do you think it is to switch between the entertainment areas would be? At what point do I need to drop the financial security being an exec and pursue writing full time, if ever? Okay. This is a good question, not because I know about what your deal is, but because I know what it's like in a different industry. As I say, every time with the writing part of this, I'm doing what I'm doing, but I can't give you any advice on what that's like and your deals and how you guys are there kind of every day and working on stuff that's not really, I don't have a lot of experience with that because I'm not there. video, there are always these moments where you would be like, Hey, if you want to learn how to run the board, you know, maybe you could get some more shifts and that way you're making a little bit more cash. And then, you know, when you go two weeks without a fill-in shift, that way you can,

you know, make a little extra money. And if you present it that way, it makes all the sense of the world. Like, all right, that's good. Um's also, remember, I got started late. My first on-air job was minor league baseball, which really didn't make any sense that it was even on the air. We've been over this. But I was 26 turning 27 that year. So then when that bombed out and then I was in Boston and then I got my first fill-in shift in Boston. I was 27. And then I think I got the full-time gig a few months later in the morning. And then that turned into the afternoon. So that's around like 28 and I'm still only making, I made 12 grand the first year. They still owe me a few grand for commission, which I can't imagine what the interest is on that 19 years later.

I made 25 grand my first year in Boston that I was salaried where I was actually an employee because before that, this is also another great one. Um, I mean, my career is like a long line of getting fucked over, uh, on a lot of that stuff. So if you sense a tone for me every now and then it's because, you know, it's, it's tough. It, you build up years and years of going like, are you serious? Like, I remember I was filling in in Boston on the radio station there. And it was owned by the Sporting News.

The Sporting News fucked me over so bad that I'll never like I'll never forgive them for that. But they not that I have to worry about, I think, at this point. But they had a deal where they were like, hey hey can you fill in as like a second chair third chair guy and you just you just kind of bullshit you know there's the host you know you did some filling stuff we like you why don't you come by and you could just you know hey the red sox were last night and you take calls and you just sit there as local talk show i mean pretty on like everybody understands the concept right so? So I did that and I was like, Hey, how do I get paid? Or how's that work? How's the invoice thing? And they go, well,

it's 75 bucks an hour. So, you know, you do three hours show, you do a four hour show, you're making, you know, almost 300 bucks. And I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. You know, like that would be able to carry me at least just gas and food. And I was, you know, I go home and do construction for the days where I had no shifts on the horizon. And so I was like, this is great. So I gave it like four weeks and I think I, I don't know, maybe I got in six or eight shifts or something like that. And I invoiced them and I got back, you know, just, they cut me a check and it was for half. Cause in the head, when you're broke and you're in your head, you're going like, Oh my God, I'm going to, I'm going to get a check for 1200 bucks. Like this is nuts. And, um, it was, it was less, it was a lot less. And I was like,

wait, what happened to this on the deal? I go, I thought it was 75 bucks an hour. And they're like, well, that's kind of more for the writers and the ex-athletes and the coaches and the tv people and like some of the other media people in town so i was like literally everyone except for me then he's like yeah pretty much i was like you told me it was 75 bucks an hour the first time he's like yeah and it's not but this is a great opportunity for you which it was it was incredible opportunity so the reason i bring all this stuff up is that when you're kind of, and this isn't to our emailer here, but I'm going to make the point, is there were a lot of times early in my career where I could have done something outside of being on air. that point, I was like, whatever, I'm going to try to do this. Doing something else that wasn't going to make me a ton of money and maybe get in the way didn't make any sense to me whatsoever because I never wanted to be a producer. If I was going to do it, I was going to be on the air.

And that was the only way I was ever going to be happy. And so I noticed early on when I'd be working with producers, you could tell half of them always wanted to be on the air. And at some point, they had made a decision that brought them down the path that they were currently on. And I'm telling you straight up, there was one guy at ESPN who I worked with who was all he wanted to do was be on the air and he hadn't been on the air forever. But everything was all the ideas were about him. All the zingers were about him. Everything I was doing on the show was about him. Feel filling some void of the decision that he had made years prior to not being on the air. Because so whenever that would come up, I'd be like, hey, look, you just got to understand, like whatever it was, whatever fork in the road I had, the choose your own adventure of my life where it was like turn to page 20 if you're going to be on the air and only going to be on the air, turn to page 40 if you're going to do some producing because there's more opportunities. The money's a little bit better. It's more stable.

There's more jobs. It's less competitive. All of those other things like you flipped your page and I flipped mine. And now here we are 10, 15 years later. And like, we have different stories, right? We have completely different stories. So I'll admit to coming for like, I took, I turned to the tougher page and you didn't. So you can't be pissed at me and you can really can't be pissed at anybody, even if you're frustrated creatively.

So how does that play into the email? It's very clear that you want to be a writer. Okay. But you're now at a point, and 23 is really, really young here, so I'm not trying to scare you. But you're at a point because you're in a really competitive business. The fact that you even got this opportunity, if this is really what it is, to be an executive at this age and the money and the parts of it, that's really, really tempting. And you might be telling a story 20 years from now where you're like, you know, actually, I wanted to be a writer as you become this huge producer in television.

Who knows, right? Actually, I always wanted to be a writer. I think, based on the limited exposure I've had to it, that writers probably look at producers the same way as on-air people in a radio station or, you know, being on TV can look at some producers. Now, there's plenty of producers, and I'll have Cerruti jump in here, too. Like, Cerruti never even wanted to be on the air,

even though he ended up on the air for a stretch doing NBA stuff with Scalabrini after he worked with me at ESPN. Every time I talked to Saruti, I knew that this was not a frustrated, angered, want to be on air guy on the inside. So what I'd say before I get to Saruti, what I'd say one more time to the emailer here is I think it's great that you want to be a writer and it's cool that you think you're going to be one, but you've already made a decision that is taking you down a path that might be great. And only you are really going to know if the not ever taking a chance as a writer, if that's going to frustrate you the rest of your life, or if you're going to be like, man, rest of your life, or if you're going to be like, man, writing's terrible. It's hard. You're by yourself. Stuff is due. Most of the time you think your own writing sucks, even if you're great at

it. Everybody that reads it has 10 different ways that they want you to change it. Even when you think you're close on getting a deal done, then it doesn't happen. And then you just pick yourself up and you start all over again. I've had moments where I was like, I'm this close on three things. And 30 days later, I'm not even fucking in the ballpark. And I'm like, all right, so you quit or you keep trying. So you only, you can really answer this question, but I've been around enough people, at least on the TV and radio side to understand there are a lot of frustrated people who made a decision a long time ago that aren't really doing the job they want, or they look back and say, I'm really glad I made

the decision I made because that version of this, yeah, it's a little bit more money and you get a little more shine and that person gets to have their name on something. That stuff, that's hard. Worrying about losing my career because I say the wrong thing one time in however many years or maybe it's just somebody's bad at the job. I mean, look at how radio lineups are overhauled all the time. You want to have a wife and kids and start a family. It's like, hey, guess what? We're moving to Minneapolis because they've got a midday slot that's open, you know? So no,

nothing against the Minneapolis lineup, but you get my point. So I know I've spent a long time on this, but it's, it's a bigger overall thing that you have to think about here. Like you've got to think if I never write, am I going to be really, really frustrated? You may not even know. And you may actually go, I thank God I didn't do that because that was a lot harder and it kind of sucks. And this had way more stability and I'm killing it on this side. But you're 23 and you don't know the answers to those questions yet, which is totally fine. So don't freak out. But the whole thing like, hey, I'll give this a year. Don't tell anyone that. Don't tell anyone in the industry, oh, I'll just be a really, I'll be a really young executive with

some power here. If you have any, don't tell anybody else that you actually want to write. I wish I had never told anybody that that's what I was doing because it's already hurt me a couple different times post ESPN, but it's not that big of a deal. So Rudy. No, yeah. I think everything you said is true. And just speaking for me personally, you're a hundred percent right. I got it. I never thought about wanting to host a show or something. I was just pumped that you guys like you will whoever Van Pelt gave me the opportunity to do that. So when the opportunity sort of was put in front of me, I was like, would I regret not trying this? And, you know, you're you're younger than me

at the time, but you're 23. I was 30. You know, I kind of was like, I don't need kids like, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'll still be able to figure're 23. I was 30. I was like, I don't have any kids. If it doesn't work out, I'll still be able to figure it out. I'm confident that I'd be able to figure it out in the industry. But I ultimately answered the question that yes, if I didn't at least try this thing out, I think I would be bummed years later saying, damn, what could have been? And I did it. It didn't work out. And that's okay for a million different reasons. And I've actually figured out what I liked and didn't like more by doing that. And I don't look back and regret, you know, leaving what I had at ESPN. So I think it's all about what you are willing to sort of accept about yourself and what you're willing to look back on in years and feel like you regret about something. And if you feel like you really want to try this writing thing, and if you know, you're 1020 years down the line, wondering and wishing what could have happened to your life, you think that's really going to bum you out, then I think you should take a shot at it. You're 23.

You obviously have a great situation right now. So if it doesn't work out, there are other lanes that you can find yourself in. Clearly, if you're at that point at 23, you're a smart dude. So I think it's just all about what you think in personal risk and what your regret factor will be down the line as you get older. Yeah. And there's another thing that you said that made me realize my answer was incomplete although incredibly long there's no reason why you can't just work on writing in your spare time that's what i was gonna say yeah yeah

kyle knew it go ahead that's it i was can you do both like it's not like um when you're doing like if you were at home doing whatever you were doing all but also being quote unquote on air in your free time, that would be you sitting in front of a shitty camcorder just trying it out. But if you want to write in your free time, you get final draft, you learn how to do it right, you can make some awesome stuff. And it's not going to seem low budget. There you go. It's just writing. Make a shit ton of money and write. The best thing about this guy is you can write what's selling.

The best thing about this guy is you can write what's selling. But again, you're probably young. And although I'm writing going, hey, I just want to write something. What's selling right now? Okay, I'll write that. I mean, you got to make a living. I wouldn't be interested in that. But maybe you'll have a better grasp of it.

So there you go. That's right, Kyle. Really well done. Kyle's like, Kyle. Really well done. Kyle's like, Kyle, are you a deep down frustrated on-air personality? Not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. That's the most honest answer

the entire audience is going to hear from anyone in their lives for the entire week. All right. We had a bunch of follow-ups to the whiskey thief. Do you guys remember our man poured himself a couple top-shelf whiskeys and then asked for a bottle of wine when the couple that were hosting the party were going to bed. A lot of guys chimed in, and I was being nicer about it than I probably was, but we saw some of the emails and most of you guys are right on it.

So we'll just leave it at that. But there was another follow-up that Kyle sent us here. And our guy says, thanks for reading my original email about the dude stealing my whiskey. First of all, I do identify as thick. So thank you for bringing that up. Secondly, the Panhandle is an awesome place to visit. Nothing like South Florida, but there's a ton of great food here and the beaches are immaculate. I am from the Midwest originally. So you also nailed that. There was no way they weren't from the Midwest. Like, yeah, I guess you guys just stole a ton of whiskey, but here's some wine. And then, cause he was writing in the email, like we felt bad. He had nothing to feel about. So onto the story, he has not apologized or even brought up the situation. And I haven't either.

My fiance and I have not had another cookout yet because we've been busy, but I'm sure we'll have one soon. The kicker here is the whiskey thief is having his own cookout coming up. Both my fiance and I are invited. Is this a makeup, an apology, or just coincidence? It's his first party at his house. His words, not mine. I feel a little weird about the situation still, but I'm most likely going to attend the party,

but it's also on a Wednesday night. This guy rages. I've since moved my expensive whiskey to another cabinet. This wasn't a $50 type expensive, more like a $150 bottle, so I'm still a little shook that he took a couple. It happens, I guess. I'll let you know how the cookout goes.

Actually, do let us. More often than not, I'm like, nah, you get a second email, and I'm in. I'm into this story. I don't know that he's having this cookout to make up anything no way no way this guy's all about himself in a pretty apparent dependency on throwing some back so uh yeah i don't i think you guys go and observe like i would be so excited this This would be one of the few times

I'd be like, I'd want to be in a relationship. How excited would you be on the ride over being like, what's going to happen? What's this guy going to be like hosting his own thing? And then you could go all-timer where you decide to make a pact that you're the last two people to leave no matter what, that he has to ask you to leave.

But the thing is, he'll be so excited somebody's staying there and staying up late when he calls in sick to work the next day or doesn't have to because it's just a zoom for 90 minutes um you know who knows i think that guy's a shoes on your coffee table guy and he'll just be that way forever and he doesn't even get it and i think that's just how he is yeah yeah you should treat him as such but you know would you would you go you go bananas at the party if that were you? Would you do a payback revenge attendance thing?

How would you handle it? I don't think I'd be looking through his cabinets because I think that would make me feel a little gross. Probably little flashbacks coming at me that I don't like to feel. So I'd do my best. I would do my best. I feel like there's a follow-up here. No, there really isn't.

All right. Okay. You want to jump in there? No, I feel like it's a chance for you to check this guy out in his natural habitat, right? That's the reason to go. I'd want to see how he reacts if he's just as sloppy and weird at his own place.

So you absolutely have to go just to scratch that curiosity itch. Yeah, I think... I don't know. I mean, I just wouldn't worry about it. I mean, there should be no anxiousness whatsoever about this deal. You just go like, hey, let's check this out. Unless all of a sudden he thinks like you guys are really close and

hitting it off. We just still ship them. That'd be hilarious. If your wife or fiance was like, I stole it. I stole under the table and dreaming CD. Okay. Um,

we had one other here. Cause this, this, uh, this spoke to me here okay escaping bartending 631 85 don't lift can split wood all day used to be a pretty good steeplechaser do you know what steeplechasing is guys like the tops of churches probably not nope it's not that. I've been bartending six years now. So we don't know how we get an age here.

I'll just keep going. Bartending six years. I recently started working at one of the top restaurants in my city. Congrats. I've been routinely making $300 a night. It's good for a shift. I've had a couple weekend doubles where I've made $500 to $600. For context, my mortgage is $1,100 a month.

So this is really good money for where I live I enjoy bartending I'm good at making drinks and I'm good with guests but I'm tired the late nights the no weekends the idiot fucking managers who couldn't cut it as service so they fell up into a thirty eight thousand dollar a year salary um I've basically risen as high as I can in this profession and realize it's not still not satisfying I understand that work is work and I don't need to find all my life purpose through a job, but I just turned 30. There we go. And I feel like I'm already aging out of the service industry. The problem is nothing else pays a dick compared to what I can pull at the bar. I was offered an apprenticeship today with

a masonry company. I have no experience and I have no idea if I like it. I just know I like being outside. I don't mind manual labor. I'm only getting this chance because everyone's struggling to find workers right now and I was able to talk them up to $18 an hour. I think I'm going to make it, but I'm an idiot. Am I an idiot for walking away from double that pay just because I'm a bit disgruntled right now? grumble right now uh how did the cats used to sling it with escape the bar life or did they not what was your plan if the radio thing didn't work out thanks for your time really appreciate the pot all right so when i was done done and i had bartended i got started pretty early because this guy i don't know i mean i don't want to it was sort of a messy situation at a local bar and he, he just loved me. And so by the time I was shoot, I think I was 19. I think I had 19 turned 20 that summer. I wasn't even legal. And I was bartending at like one of the top spots in Martha's Vineyard, which pissed a lot of other people off, but I didn't care, whatever.

And then I bartended in college towards the end and then managed a place at 23, which I probably shouldn't been managing. It got shut down in a raid. It wasn't actually my fault. It was political. And maybe we'll tell that story another day. And then I bartended and then I went home and worked construction, framing. And then I went back and bartended again. And then when I was doing the radio show stuff that we were just talking about how broke I was then, I got a shift at a place in Boston.

But I kind of felt like I was done bartending at 26. So I knew the feeling because I was doing it four nights a week. I had kind of a rinse and repeat life, which a lot of us have, but at least I feel like my rinse and repeat is happening now. It's happening with a purpose. So I understand.

And look, if you're bartending now, because I want to be totally, like some people that like to bartend and that's what they like. Like, that's awesome. You found the thing. It's cool. It's social. If you like that social part of it, because I do know that I could probably be a little guilty or maybe all of us can be guilty of like looking at certain careers and industries and then saying like, oh, man, you'll want to stop doing that where you kind of feel like you're being insulting towards everybody else.

and then saying like, oh man, you'll want to stop doing that where you kind of feel like you're being insulting towards everybody else. But I think it's a fair and reasonable thing to say that in the service industry past a certain age, you're probably going like, do I really want to keep doing this? But if you love it and you want to keep doing it, then good, good for you. Because it's actually also kind of cool when you find some place with some character, an old divy spot, and the guy's been there forever. Or I've been to some places in New Orleans where you go in and somebody tells you the history and the guy behind there is the vest and the mustache before the mustaches were cool. All that stuff's really cool, but you clearly are not feeling it because I felt the same thing. I would start to get this awful stomach ache once I would turn the corner down main onto St. Paul

in Burlington, Vermont, and I would go down the stairwell and open up this big red door and I would have a pit in my stomach because I was like, I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. And I didn't think I was going to, but that's hard when you're in the moment and you're feeling that. So that sounds a bit like, not exactly, it doesn't sound, you know, but I get the point. And I think it doesn't, you don't have to just be a bartender, but you get the point. But the bartending, but you know, people are drunk and they're fucking with you. And I mean, we used to have fights a decent amount.

I used to love it at first and I hated it later on. And you just get sick of it. All right. You just get sick of it. And for me, I was also still doing it in the town where I went to school. So now you're starting to like, you know, it's like, dude, you still are here. So that's another element to it that you're not talking about. But I get that point.

I think a lot of people can relate to that. However, when you talk about the managers who you don't like because they couldn't serve, fell up, most often any bar that I've ever worked at, you'd rather be a bartender than a manager anyway because you're making more money than them. So when you're throwing me some of these numbers and you're making, if you're doing 300 a night and say you're doing four nights, I'm not going to say five, say four nights, then you're already beating this guy in salary unless we're only talking about you doing a couple nights a week. But it sounds like money isn't really the issue because now you've taken a job for less.

This is where I'm a little worried because I don't know what the purpose is and all that kind of stuff. I feel like you're leaving something that pays twice as much for masonry that, I'll just put it this way, of the labor manual options, or manual labor options, better said, masonry is the Irish of the fight scenes in Braveheart, okay? Masonry is fucking brutal. My brother did it for a while. He still got scars emotionally from the crew that he was working for. It wasn't great either. Masonry is so...

You're just going to be lugging rocks, dude, for eight plus hours a day. So if you're cool with that and you like to do it and you're going to get big forearms, you're going to be able to beat people at arm wrestling and your hands are going to be all gnarled up and you like that. I have all the respect in the world for you. Masons, you don't want to fight them and you just kind of let them do their thing. But it is literally backbreaking work. And making an Appletini may seem real fucking tempting for twice the amount of money per hour after about four weeks of doing that. So I don't know what to tell you on what your long-term goals should be. Because, yeah, I think if you're bartending for a while, the cash is great.

The cash is great. But you're constantly asking yourself, okay, where is the long-term play in this. Because yeah, I think if you're bartending for a while, the cash is great. The cash is great. You're constantly asking yourself, okay, where is the long-term play in this? Is it buying my own place? Is it investing in something else? Is it completely getting out of the industry? I admire the outdoors part of it. Cause I too miss the manual part of being outside.

And I don't miss being up on ladders and freezing weather and some fucking framer from, you know, new Bedford yelling at me, but I know i've been around enough to watch the masons work and i just hope you know what you've signed up for and if you love it then great you know what i mean it's like the end of office space where somehow ron livingston's character enjoys cleaning up garbage uh at the end and he's like cool this is this is awesome. I'm shoveling garbage. And you're like, that's awesome. Cause Jennifer Aniston definitely wouldn't be dating

you still, but whatever. It's a movie. Um, yeah. So don't be so disgruntled that you just did something where you're going to be way more banged up physically for half the pay or maybe you'll love it. Yeah. I don't know. that's the pod for today make sure you uh kyle where can we follow you so we can keep up to date with your your height and weight uh height and weight updates weekly at tom shady 300 tom shady and then steve cerruti also producing on the show you can follow him at uh just at cerruti the non-night version. All right, perfect. That was easy. Okay, we'll be back next week. Remember, Sunday nights, every Sunday with Bill.

And we'll talk to you next week. Thank you.