The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Long-term Concern for Caleb Williams? QB Tiers With Mike Sando and Domonique Foxworth on the Difficulty of Being a Two-Way Player.

Episode Date: August 14, 2025

Russillo is joined by Mike Sando to break down his latest QB tiers and explain how they came to this consensus. Then, Domonique Foxworth joins the show to share why he’ll be rooting for Travis Hunter and discuss the intricacies of CBAs. Plus, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle! (0:00) Welcome to the Ryen Russillo Podcast! (0:45) Russillo welcomes in Mike Sando. (1:42) Why was Josh Allen not a unanimous first tier? (7:25) On the youth of the QB position right now. (10:06) Do you think Jalen Hurts is ranked correctly? (18:20) Was it difficult to rank Jayden Daniels? (21:41) On Caleb Williams's concerning processing speeds. (25:54) Which franchise has the worst QB situation? (28:30) What surprised you most throughout this process? (32:57) Domonique Foxworth join the show. (37:36) Why does the NFL have so much parity? (44:13) What defensive unit do you trust the most? (46:00) What are your hopes for Travis Hunter? (50:28) Could Deion Sanders have played both ways? (52:43) What would be the worst part of owning an NFL team? (1:00:00) Which league has the best CBA? (1:12:00) Life Advice! (1:25:58) Help! I don't know the name's of my coworkers (1:33:46) The girl I like doesn't want to do long distance Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Domonique Foxworth and Mike Sando Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Live from the Jakob Astoria's estate, the Ryan Russela podcast today. What do we have for you? We have a lot of football, football, football, football. College Tuesday, there's NFL. Is it the new thing? No, just the way that it worked out. Mike Sando, he has his quarterback tiers, annual stuff, just came out. I love it, except for one part.

And then Dominic Foxworth, we have a lot of fun stuff. to talk about here. We get a little nerdy on the CBA stuff. What would it be like to be an owner? And his thoughts on Travis Hunter that are just so simple, they're perfect. And life advice. Feedback with more life advice.

Enjoy. It's that time of the year. Quarterback tiers are out from Mike Sando. The athletic just came out, and we have them on every summer to run through it and have some fun. Okay, let's do this the way we do it every year. So there's five tier one quarter.

Can you, I don't know, I didn't even prep you for this. Do you have kind of like rough off the top of your head? What's the largest number of tier one quarterbacks you've had? The smallest number of tier one quarterbacks you've had? What is it? I think the largest may have been like nine. There was kind of an era where maybe Andrew Luck came up and there was still Breeze and Brady and Rogers and all those rivers maybe made it that year.

You know, I think I think nine is the highest off the top of my head. And I think last year maybe the lowest. There was only three. I think last year was only Burrow, Mahomes, and Alan, because Lamar was just on the edge. And then he came crashing through that for last season to be just up with those other guys, not unanimous, but very close. So we've got five tier one guys. Josh Allen had three tier two votes.

Like what's going on now? Yeah. It would have been, it would be like if I could do this, I mean, obviously the top four would be easy tier ones for me. of Mahomes down and Jackson. But if it would be a little cleaner if Mahomes was unanimous and like if Burrow had like two tier two votes like these other guys. I think that there's three tier two votes for Josh Allen. There's four for Lamar Jackson.

I think we look at those two players and say, you know, to a large degree than the others, they rely on their running as a quarterback. I think there's some, a small number of people in the league that, you know, think the running dries up and that really the other two guys, probably Burrow and. and Bahomes are the best passers in a league, and they're prioritizing that a little bit more. But I get asked about it a lot, but I think it's a little bit of a waste of time

just because they're so overwhelmingly in Tier 1 all four of those guys that I think that's probably the broader takeaway here. And then there's a big gap to Matthew Stafford who just kind of eeked in the bottom of Tier 1, but isn't it a totally different zip code within Tier 1? Is Stafford making Tier 1 for the first time at age 37 mean this is stupid? Does it mean this is stupid? I love it, by the way.

Like, it sounds like, so what are you doing? You shit on my life's work here, Rosillo? Thank you for having me on again. You know what I'm saying? Like, it just felt like, oh, so now we can do it with him? No, here's what it is. So he's been, I'll put it this way. It's like he moved to a new state, but he moved a hundred yards across the border.

put it to you that way because he's always been like a high tier two and people say you know guy he's he's real close with tier one so this year he got five more votes in tier one out of the whole panel well guess what the panel's different i might have 20 different guys so i may have just through the luck of the draw gotten five more people that would have had stafford in tier one last year but they weren't on my panel does that make sense because it's not like there's a sea change to where oh my gosh stafford's declared a tier one In some cases with the conversations, I quoted one person because I'll do this. I don't steer people towards changing their vote, but I asked them, I want them to be accountable for their choices.

So when Stafford, they describe him like a tier one and then they say he's high tier two. And so I with one guy said, like, okay, well, what do you have to do to be in tier one? And like, it was silence. He's like, that's a really good question because I just basically described tier one, made him a one. You know, I think that I think he's on that border, but he's clearly not Burrow Mahomes, Alan and Jackson, just in his probably ability to just carry it week to week for a whole season. You still don't want to play him, but I could easily, I'd probably like to have him in tier too, just to make it a little cleaner. Huh. Okay.

I guess I always felt like he was, he was underrated. It was a bit like Sam Presti with the Thunder where it's like, okay, so now, guess what? We all get to say Sam, like, we all get to agree. that Sam Presti is incredible at his job. And that's the way I felt about Stafford for a really long time. Yeah. He was, you know, I want to turn in the Matt Cain lack of run support analogy that I like to throw out every now and then.

But, I mean, that's what we're looking at with him in Detroit, you know, in all those years. And it's just, it just feels, and it's funny because there are examples where it's not just winning or losing, which certainly can influence the tier voting every single year. But then you have some examples from like, wow, even though this has happened, it doesn't seem like it swayed the voters all that much. I guess I just, I've always been a big Stafford fan and to see him finally be tier one. I don't know that he's going to get a shirt or any sort of plaque from you on this whole thing,

but it kind of was, it just felt like a collective realization, but you're right. Like you're going through different voters all the time. So if you have different, if 30% of voters are different, they're going to see the sport different. Especially for the guys on the edge. So I guess I would, it would be nice if he was in tier two just for the, because I think people were getting hung up on it. Like, what did he do? I don't think there's a big change.

but I'm happy for him that he made Tier 1. I think he deserves it. Now, if we did the polling all this week with his back injury, I think, you know, he'd probably lose a few Tier 1 votes because the age concern is, you know, is real for some of these guys, and it's probably pronounced. But it's cool. You know, he had 11 straight years in Tier 2 was close.

Probably would have been Tier 1, some of those if he was in a better situation. He's been in a good situation lately, and, you know, he's a top quarterback. He's a last of a dying, he's part of a dying breed, really, of these guys who, process expertly from the pocket, and that's what they do. That's what they hang in the hat on. There's not another thing, right, that he does, you know, that gives him an edge. I had something else for you, though, Ryan, maybe this is, this just occurred to me. I was going back, I'm looking here in a conversation I had with Dave Deshaun, who edits my columns and makes them a lot better. I was looking at Tier 2 from 2020. Okay.

Tier two from 2020. Look at your tier two right now. Okay, Jaden Daniels, Justin Herbert, Gough, Stroud, Jalen Hertz, Mayfield, Dak, Prescott, Jordan Love, and Brock Purdy. Okay. Those are the names in Tier 2 this year. The Tier 2 guys in 2020 were Tom Brady, Lamar Jackson, Ben Rothesberger, Matt Stafford, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Deck, Prescott, and Philip Isn't that interesting, do you? I knew that it was going to be all of the names sort of on the way out where it's like that feels like a way more certain group of tier two's than the names you just rattled off. Yeah, it does. I think the league has gotten so young at the position, historically young. That's just what stands out to me about this whole thing. When I look at tier two, it's like there's not guys like those guys, you know, that are on the way down.

We have a bunch of guys who could be on the way up, you know, possibly Jordan Love maybe can, Jaden Daniels is. We'll see what happens with Herbert Stroud a little bit more in flux. Did you talk to that? I'm just trying to figure out the Lamar Jackson thing

because it'll be nice that first take doesn't have to vote three days to what it means that Lamar Jackson is Tier 2 because now he's Tier 1, so congrats. It must be nice to have this much power. What did you hear from the people

that changed him from a Tier 2 to a Tier 1? I think Lamar Jackson early in his career battled the idea and the fact that he was so much better as a runner than a passer. And then he got better and got better as he went along. But there was such a gap between what happened in the playoffs. It was like he got exposed in the playoffs.

I think what's happened in the last two years is he stayed on the field. He's been really good, better as a passer. They put the ball in his hands more. It's been more about him throwing. And then when he's got in the playoffs, you can't blame him. I mean, he's been fine. Mark Andrews drops the ball, right? And I think last year, what really was different,

was he didn't have the top defense. The kicker was bad. Those things that let him and them play downhill and never really have to be in positions where they had to throw the ball much, the things that were outside of his control, he had to overcome those last year. So I had a conversation this week. We were debating, you know, where Jalen Hertz is. And we got into this, in the Hertz section, there was a, there was, I noted that after the fourth game of the year, They only threw the ball 30 or more times in one game. And somebody pointed out that, hey, Lamar threw it 30 or more times, eight times, but they were three and five in those games.

He was trying to use it to knock Lamar. And I was like, wait a minute, we looked at those games where Lamar threw it 30 or more times. He had 17 touchdowns and two interceptions. He was money. And I think we saw that last year in hard to win games, shootouts with Joe Burrow. He was winning them. And it was because of him. So I think he really has just, like, those remaining boxes, even if you disagreed that those should have been, you know, those should have held them back out of Tier 1, like they were all checked.

The only thing he's got to do now is push it even deeper in the playoffs. Let's talk about Hertz. I think I have the math right here, but Hertz, Tier 2, overall, you have them 10th. and it looks like he has less tier one votes after winning the Super Bowl than losing the Super Bowl two years ago. That's, what does that mean? Different voters again?

I mean, just after the default. It's funny. So we've got a, we've got this newsletter at the Athletic and I started contributing to it now every week. And so it's the Scoop City newsletter. And that's what I put in there. It was like,

wait a minute, two years ago, he's higher than coming off the Super Bowl loss. When he is now after a Super Bowl win, what's going on? Here's what I think's going on. When he lost the Super Bowl, he was younger, and he had really turned a corner in terms of his ability as a passer. And I think the optimism about him continuing to grow as a pastor, hey, this is amazing. He's going to be, he's on his way to be in a top tier passer.

I think he got some projection votes. and then, you know, they had, 2003 wasn't a great year for the Eagles, you know, a lot of up and down. They lost it a lot at the end. And then last year, they were great, but they took the ball out of his hands. I mean, it was a Sequin Barclay show.

So I think he is perceived to have probably plateaued as a passer where, you know, people wouldn't want to see them. They wouldn't think the Eagles or Hurt would be better served by opening it up more or having more of it on his arm, more of it on his shoulders. They think that he, probably fits in, you know, as a mid-tier two,

maybe even fits some of the definition of tier three, but, hey, when you win the Super Bowl, you know, most people aren't going to tier three. So I think that's different from some of those guys at the top, like Jaden Daniels or even Justin Herbert, who hasn't done it in the postseason, and people feel like you could probably open it up a little bit more with them as passers than you could with Hertz.

We could do 30 plus QBs here, but I feel like Hertz is, I don't, know who the you know it's not the belt but it would be he is now going to be the test right if you don't love him and he's now won a super bowl he's played in two of the last three it's like oh there's something wrong with you like you have your own limitations for him and i think i would look at it as like hey it's okay if if jalen hurts if there's eight 11 guys better than him it's Okay. It's okay. It's not the end of the world. And I think when he's projected on the lower end of the rankings, and again, the timing always messes everybody with all this stuff. It's like, oh, I just won a Super Bowl. It's like, hey, sometimes that happens. So like Trent Dilfer wasn't going to be seventh. If you had done tears after this with the Ravens. And I'm not comparing Jalen Hertz to Trent Dilfer. I just think that it's, it's just, if Jalen Hertz is considered eight, nine, 10, 11, it's. Okay. And I don't think it's wrong. Yeah. He's tied for nine. I think it's right. Like if we switched

him with where Jaden Daniels is right now, I think there'd be less conversation about Hertz. Don't you agree? If he was at the top of Tier 2 and Daniels was a little bit lower, people could say, okay, hey, Strouds regressed a little. Herbert didn't maintain, you know, his Tier 1 trajectory. It's fair to put Jaden Daniels in the middle of Tier 2 and make him prove it again. And hey, good for you, Jaywin Hertz. You're on the cusp of tier. We don't think you're tier one, but you're the highest next guy because you've been going to Super Bowls. I think it would solve a lot of these conversations, but I don't know that it would be more accurate.

Yeah, I think people are paying attention to the 10 and not the two. And you should pay attention to the two with this. And there was also coming off the Super Bowl loss in Arizona, if you look at the AFC, it was like, okay, and even today with the tears, the top four guys are all AFC. And part of the conversation around Hertz, and I remember going into the 24th season where it was like, is Hurts, the best quarterback in the NFC.

And I'm like, my gut reaction is, no, like that can't already, be true. Like, ah, it might be. And it's, you know, whether it's, everybody's kind of off a DAC, you know, maybe too soon for Jordan Love and Love is now kind of in his own, like, what is this, is this guy actually going to be as good as a lot of his thought that we would? And the fact that Green Bay would pay him what they paid him made you feel, if you felt good about Jordan Love, then you're like, okay, well, this is confirmation of all this.

But Stafford jumps up. The Jaden part of this coming off an incredible rookie year, golf continuing to put up a ton of numbers there. So now Hertz goes from like the certain best. quarterback in that conference at the start of two seasons ago, if you're including 25 to now like in this other spot, but it's, I don't know, man. It's not like you came out with this list and all of a sudden the NFL thinks he's like the 15th or 16th best quarterback. I think you've got to pay more attention to. It's fine. If there's five guys that are tier ones,

Hertz isn't one of those guys, and it's totally okay. Yep, I agree. I don't think it's a slap in his face. So, you know, if it's a talker, it was a number one thing, number one pushback thing for this year has been that. So, yeah. not surprising whatsoever. Give me the Brock Purdy, you know, you talk to so many different people, so you would think there's more variation. If I look at the voting here, 27 tier two votes, 23, tier three votes. He comes in at 14 overall. But there's an EPA number that you have for him over the last three years, and I'll stall here for a bit if you want to pull that up, where the number's just so impressive that maybe this is low for him. And maybe this is low for him. And maybe

this is a team momentum thing. But, I mean, look, people struggle with hurts. I think Purdy's an even tougher one to get consensus on. Yeah, I think when you play the 49ers, you know, you're not thinking, oh, my gosh, we got Purdy this week, you know, what are we going to do? I think you have respect for him, but you realize that, hey, it's about McCaffrey, it's about the whole scheme with Shanahan. And you look at, you know, if we go on pro football ball reference and look at the historical

all-time leaders in yards per attempt, it's like Hall of Famer, Hall of Fame. Famer, Jimmy Garoppolo, Hall of Famer, Hall of Famer, Hall of Famer, Hall of Famer. And you go, okay, was Garoppel one of those guys? Right? He had the great record, great EPA for a while, too. I think Purdy's clearly better than that and adds a little bit of a dimension with his running. But I don't think that he's dynamic or special, you know, athletically. He's just really good for what they want to do.

and I think he's fine in in tier two. Now, the EPA stat was, Purdy leads the NFL and EPA per pass play over the last three seasons. He was fifth in 2024. But as I pointed out, Tua Tunga Volo also ranks among the top five. So similar scheme, right? It's a real tribute to what they do, and the quarterback's part of that. If you look at Tua's situation, they couldn't run a play without him. So there's something about who the quarterback is, but I don't think that,

But, you know, I don't think there's some special trait other than, hey, throws with good anticipation and accuracy, right? There's not a game plan consideration that you have to have for him. The Tua quotes, if you're a Dolphins fan and you want to feel good about Tua, that's the best you're going to feel about him after you read those quotes. He had 12 tier two votes. He had 36 tier three votes. He had two tier four votes. And you're right, the EPA dropback thing. looks great for Purdy, and then you're, wait, if Tua's in this, then how do you feel about Tua?

I think all of your guys nailed it with him. It's like, if it's on schedule, everything's rolling, his accuracy is so special that it looks really good. And I think all of us know this now that I've watched it. As soon as it's off script, you're like, uh, what's going to happen now? And that's where the problem's start. And on top of that, you know, he's a big hit away for maybe not playing more. You know, I think that's why he got two fours.

There's people who think like, I think that. ends nearing, you know, it's a miracle he's made it this far. So hopefully that's not the case. Hopefully he can stay healthy. But they're really at a crossroads. You know, they kind of paid him, gone all in pretty much spending the last few years and then, you know, haven't had a lot to show for it. Let's talk about the rookies because Jaden coming in at sixth. That's the highest debut ever. Yeah. That's higher than Andrew Luck. Well, Andrew Luck was 2012 rookie class and I started doing this in 2014 so we didn't get rock yeah luck may have although in 2014 yeah i should look and see where luck was in 2014 um that team was not good that team was not good yeah in fact i can do

i can do it though here i'm i've got it on my screen this is crazy that i have this this accessible but i just lucked into it luck come on this and true luck yeah yeah yeah we We can, you know, edit this down, but... No, keep it all in. All right, so luck going into 2014 season was pretty much, you know, 1.50, which got... He's pretty much where Stafford is at this year, the very lowest you can be and be in Tier 1, okay? So that would have been going into 2014. By the way, yeah, back then I didn't have as many voters because I was just starting out doing this.

So to me, it's plausible then that... going in, well, maybe he would have been higher going into 13 than he was going into 14 because he had such a great rookie year. Maybe he probably would have been about where Jaden Daniels is, right? Maybe a little higher. It was the only thing I could think of, but I imagined, I mean, because you're a very thorough person. I was like, he probably didn't start until after.

I just thought what luck delivered for that first year were the limitations around that team. Yeah. You know, it was just really, really impressive. However, having said all that, there is, we only have a year on this, okay? So Pennix doesn't count. Bo Nix was terrific. Everybody's really excited about Drake May, but I don't think there's much evidence to,

we don't know necessarily how to feel about it. And then you have the Caleb Williams part of it. It's supposed to be better than every one of these guys. So give me the order of the four guys, because at this point, you know, it's just not fair. There's not enough on Pennix to even include him in a conversation or JJ, obviously. Yeah, so Jade Daniels clearly number one, top of tier two, 17 tier one votes, really in a clash by himself.

Bo Nix is kind of in the middle of Tier 3. He's an exact 3.00 average vote. He got four votes in Tier 2, 42 in Tier 3. And the four in Tier 4 are just, hey, not enough information after one year. I don't know if that's a bailout or a cop-out. But a lot of optimism around him, though, not people poking holes in him. I think there's an expectation by a good number of the voters that he could climb up and be Tier 2 next year. then a notch below that, a couple quarterbacks lower in Tier 3, Drake May.

He got, Drake May got five votes in Tier 2. That's pretty darn good. 34 in Tier 3, with most of the conversation being, hey, like what I saw, tough to evaluate because of how bad it was around him. But there wasn't people like saying, ooh, Gall, didn't like this about May. Okay, there wasn't negatives. Caleb Williams is the next quarterback at a still low in tier three the only guy's lower than him in tier three

are Bryce Young and a plummeting Kirk Cousins so with lots of question marks Okay so let's get into that Like give me It's not consensus but you know Give me Give me kind of like what people that you really trust out of these voters

The people that don't like him The stuff that they were saying that maybe is alarming Many, many voters were alarmed, given pause by what they perceived to be real struggles processing the game past enough. And I think clearly that shows up in some of the sacks that even if you're under great duress, as a quarterback a lot of times you can at least avoid the sack. You can get rid of it. You know, the elite processing guys don't take a ton of sacks. And so that's concerning just because it may not change a lot, right? I mean, if you're not getting the ball to your hands now, you may get a little bit better,

but are you going to be, you know, a guy who really sees it quickly? I think that was the thing that came up over and over again. One of the quotes, he's definitely a one talent. I just think it's going to take him longer than Jane Daniels. He's not playing fast right now. There's something there. His processing to me was almost alarming, watching. the tape. So that shows, hey, the talent to be tier one, the talent to be drafted number one

overall is there. But that processing is alarming and gives me pause. I think there was a kind of like some of these guys looked at it as if, hey, this was an open place. You know, how excited it would I be to go to the Bears if they were going to hire me? And whereas I think it was perceived, maybe when they drafted them, oh, wow, I'd love to go there, a golden ticket, right? I think now it's kind of like, hey, I'd go there, you know, I think there's something to work with there. What I said, the concerns on Caleb Barn, a deal breaker, like I wouldn't return down the job, but I'd go in there with my eyes open saying, hey, this could be something that, um, holds him back. Not great, Bob.

It's just, I mean, look, this is the way the position works. So this isn't new, the guy that we all love or, you know, I know some people are down. on him, but I always felt like the people that were down on Caleb were never down on him about anything that they saw in the football field. It was all the other stuff. And so to think of the order of this, and look, May, excuse me, Nick's May and Caleb Williams are completely bunched up here. So it's not like we're looking at this massive separation. And I don't think I am going to ask you, hey, in five years, what do you think the order is going to be of these four guys that we could talk about? But the first year for, I don't know. I mean,

I mean, Jaden, I don't know that there was going to be a ton of people in the NFL that would say, hey, after one year, Jaden's better than Caleb. I don't know that anybody in the league was going to say that's an absolute impossibility because of how great Jaden was that last year at LSU. But, yeah, right now, Caleb Williams is fourth, and he's not supposed to be fourth out of this group. Yeah, and I would bet this. I would bet it in five years he's not first. So you think, what do you, so you think a safer bet is he's fourth than he's fifth,

than he's first? I would say the safer bet is that he's not in the top two. Yeah. Because I think it will be, you know, some combination of probably Jaden Daniels, Bo Nix,

Drake May, Panx for McCarthy. I think, I think, like I almost think it could be hard for Caleb to be in the top three among those, possibly. But I would definitely think not in the top two. Wow. I'm going to be honest, as a Caleb guy, shook at the moment, but I'll try to get through the rest of the interview.

The other thing is like, you know, let's let him play, too. And he's going to go into a new system, and that's hard for quarterbacks, even veteran quarterbacks. Finicky veterans like Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rogers, they hate changing systems. So let's not, you know, past judgment at the end of September. I say, let's give him this season with the new coordinator and see if he grows, you know. This doesn't have to be a desk. sentence for him, but it's things people saw. Give me the worst quarterback situation of any of the franchises. From a franchise standpoint, I think Indy's tough because they, you know, really went all in with a top five pick on Anthony Richardson. And it seems like we're almost past the point of saying, hey, it's going to take a long time. It just looks like it's so far away that it, you may never get enough time to do it.

You can't, too many people will lose jobs if you, if you, if you, you. waited that long for something to happen. And then your fallback is Daniel Jones, who, you know, could I suppose have a Sam Donald type resurgence, but I don't know how appealing that is, you know, for that franchise long term to be in this situation where Joe Jones probably wins the job out of camp. I can't believe he got two tier three votes. For Daniel?

Yeah. No, no, excuse me for Anthony Richardson. Yeah. Spencer Rattler's like, wait, I came in behind him. and then Kenny Pickett's the only guy in Tier 5, the poor guy. I feel for him, man. I think he could be better than that. Better than what?

I think he's a tier 4. I do. I think the situation in Pittsburgh, I don't think, was good with the coordinator they had at the time. I pointed out in the piece, like, he had, the offense was incrementally better statistically with him than it was with Big Ben when Matt Canada was the OC. I think if he had gone to Kevin O'Connell, can he pick it? Like, I'm not saying he'd be a star or do even do what Darnal did, but I think he'd have a much better, he'd be much better. Is there a, is the Darnel conversation like totally different now?

Yeah, but the last two games of the season last year really did put a damper on it, you know, for a lot of people were like, ah, it was close. And that just looked so bad that it's kind of lingering in my mind. I think there's a feeling that look he's close to where Gino Smith isn't here so it's not like people feel like it's a huge drop-off but

you know the fact that they're going to probably take the ball out of the quarterback's hands there in Seattle and a run-up more is probably a good thing with Donald you're right though if it's not those last couple games he's getting more than four tier two votes I totally agree

that's low I mean you consider the bulk of what he was that season. And then again, post O'Connell, it's just going to be a lot of guys going, all right, well, let me see you now do this after all the other stops. The excitement about the talent. We'll see

what happens here. Give me something that surprised you in this process. I mean, you spend as much time on this as anybody with the quarterbacks and all this kind of stuff. But I'm sure with access to this many conversations, the guys that do for a living, is there a moment that really

surprised you that maybe there was just a completely different way of looking at a quarterback that you had formed an opinion on? So here's things that were kind of surprises. You end up feeling less surprised in the end because you're part of the process the whole way. I would say things I thought would be different. A little bit surprised Stafford went into Tier 1. A little bit surprised Goff moved up when he was losing Ben Johnson. I thought there might be some people that would kind of sell on golf now, but that didn't happen.

I guess I'm not surprised that Brock Purdy slipped to the lower. I just didn't think last year was a big indictment of him. I almost in some ways felt better or as good based on his ability to handle everything sinking around him. I was a little surprised by the level of criticism of Caleb Williams and how consistent it was. And maybe he's being held to a higher standard as the number one pick. By the way, is a Caleb guy, is that five people or like 20 people saying that?

it's probably closer to 20. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a big number. I'm careful to, like if there's a pointed criticism, like, and it was only one guy,

then even it makes a good point. Like, I'm going to bounce it out. You know, I'm going to put in. Yeah, right, right.

It wasn't like there was five people who said, you know, I think he's got, I think the processing looks really good. Nobody said that. And a lot of people brought up, you know, brought up the,

brought up that as a concern. So I think it's a concern, and you can prove it otherwise. So those would probably be the things that stood out to me in this. I actually didn't anticipate the people wanting Hertz higher because I kind of agree with where he's at. So that was one that sort of got thrown in my face a lot, and I was like, oh, okay, I like that. I like to hear what other people say because I'm too close to it to sometimes see what

the general reaction will be. There are many tiers out there, folks. If you're a consumer, the tier game has a lot of depth. There's a lot of products. There's a lot of rankings. There's different ways to rank things. Some are based on shapes. But this is coming from multiple.

I mean, how many total people we're talking about who work in the NFL now? Well, there's 50 in the poll, and I'm guessing, I think there's, if you say there's probably 20 personnel people per team. so there's 600 there, and then there's probably, you know, let's just say there's 800 coaches, you know, something like that. But really, of the people that I'm going to talk to, it's a much smaller number because it's six GMs, six citizen GMs, six former GMs, five other high-level execs, eight head coaches, 15 coordinators, right? So it's a much higher percentage of people that are in those jobs, right? There's not that many that are in those jobs.

So we got a good cross-section of decision-makers. I call it kind of a market analysis. You know, we get to kind of see what the league thinks. I love it. I love it every year. I appreciate the time and the effort that you put into this and to kind of share that window into the way the guys that do this for a living are thinking about all of our favorite quarterbacks.

That's Mike Sando. You can check it out on the Athletic and against Coop City, who Racine is a part of. It kind of reminds me to those PFF whispers things that I used to love. I used to love whispers. I'd read that religiously. It was good for fantasy guys as well. So I think there's, it just reminded me of that.

So it's good to see you and enjoy week one, all right? I sure will. I just want to say something to you too. You know, I do a fair number of these podcasts, but I get the most feedback from our conversations. Hey, I love you with Rosillo. I hear that. I hear that more than with any other one of these that I do. So we get something good going there.

Wow. That makes me feel good. And I'm not even going to say I had a joke lined up, but it was going to be mean, but then I didn't really mean it. But then it's like, does he actually mean that deep down? So I would just say, I would just say that I really appreciate that you get all of those notes. So thank you. Appreciate it. Joining us from the Dominic Oxford show and also many platforms around ESPN, you can check out

Barksworth podcast on ESPN's feed multiple times a week. And he joins us now, getting ready for the NFL season. Good to see you, man. What's up? What's up, man? Good to see you, too. I see you're in Martha's Vineyard. I just got back from there myself. Yeah. I saw Van Jones the other night.

Oh, cool. How's how you doing? Did he get mixed up with Van Lathen? Is that, uh, it's a van Lathen? Yeah. It's like there can't be two vans. Two black vans. I was going to say two black ball vans, but only one is bald now.

Our van has went and got his hair taken care of. They wouldn't put down the box to get this hairline restored, which I respect. I might need to do that pretty soon. I respect the hell out of it. I don't think I'll do it. I think it'd be weird for America to just all of a sudden back with some sort of early 20s flow. Didn't Erlager do that? He like Erlager and Wayne Rooney.

Like, you just got to commit. You're too worried about what other people think. If you want your hair, go get it. I just don't know that I care about it as much now. I think it actually hardened me because it was a real bummer for. a long time. Couldn't really talk to anybody about it. There's very little sympathy out there. There's a lot of accepting people now. You know, there's been a big movement the last couple of years. Let's be less critical. They had that clip of the butterface thing, the Howard Stern deal. They see that clip

going around is from 25 years ago. And by the way, the girl's not even necessarily that unattractive. The body is just slamming. And she takes a paper bag off her head and everybody just starts pretending their fake throwing up. And again, you're looking at her going, I don't know. I mean, I've been in some spots where like, I would be in a serious relationship. with her. I don't really see what the issue is. And then it's like, hey, how did it feel when everybody booed in horror as soon as they took the back? And so now you're like, wow, that seems kind of fucked up that we used to do stuff like that. So I think that's real progress. I would say young men losing their hair, they're not being afforded the same sympathies. Yeah, there's no

defense for young men losing their hair. And I feel like we're still good in making like sitcoms still shoot out fat jokes. Like we haven't gotten there. But generally, I feel like the tide is is turning back the other direction. So get ready. We're about to get everything back, guys. Don't worry. Say what you want. It's coming back and you know it. It's coming back.

Warm it up. Warm it up. I wouldn't be the first one to say what you really want to say. But it's just wait, wait a couple years. It'll be available to you. Yeah. And I wonder if the Yokic Caitlin Clark thing is part of this. Oh.

Oh, yeah. Right. Right. That's fair point. Yeah. I like, you know, if Yokchch were from Massachusetts, it'd be real issues. it's a fair point that's a fair point

I mean I think Riley Moss is a little bit responsible too Riley Moss is the cornerback in Denver they're out there playing man coverage all game

opposite Patrick Surtan I think it shifts the power dynamics in our world a little bit in a way that I wasn't anticipating I just wasn't to anticipate it yeah

I like there's nothing necessarily being said right now that's definitive it's just a bit of a let's just let's plant to seed and see what happens. All right, I have a lot of different football thoughts with you.

You and I usually go in different directions, but if we start with something, because you sent me a note saying training camp is great, and I didn't follow up with you because I didn't understand if you like what you've seen from different camps, if you personally felt like the experience of camp was great, or you're actually being funny because you don't like it. Because I was thinking, let me start here. Were you easy to coach? Yeah, I was absolutely easy.

you to coach because that was a third round pick like it was a pretty easy coach go do that yeah you go do that and I think um as far as like being prepared and mentally for the game and that type of stuff that type of stuff came nationally to me but the first my first team was with the the Broncos and again speaking of opposite a great cornerback in Denver I was opposite Chan Bailey so that might have been hard where you're like go do this do it like him I can't do it like him I'm watching I'm watching I'm trying to do it like him. I'm doing it like me, doing the best that I can. So I was easy to coach, but until I got closer to my contract, into my contract is then when I guess it didn't make it more difficult for me to coach, but I know it sounds absurd because I wasn't like some superstar player, but I started saying crazy shit in the media and got myself traded. It wasn't intentional, but I ended up getting myself traded. you were talking about parody in the NFL recently on one of your episodes and you know as soon as you started talking about it it was funny because I was like this is why he and I get along so well because there's some simple math with the NFL that makes it more likely to be a parody driven sport limited possessions hey I dropped the ball two more times than they did the number of times on a Sunday where you're in that closing window of the one o'clock games and you're like how is this team in this game with this team how is it 2114 like that score where you're thinking they have the ball

they have a chance like it doesn't make any sense uh and it did dawn on me finally it's like well if you're between nine and 12 possessions a game and you happen to get two extra ones there's your math and then it's single elimination and you only play 16 now 17 games for a few years so this it's it's about the parody probably has more to do with math than it does roster construction or coaching influence and all that stuff. And yet with all of the discussion about how great the product is because of parity, it is a bit like that discussion in rounders where it's like if it's luck with poker, then why is it the same guys at the final table every single year?

Because it feels like the sport gets all this credit for parity. But ultimately, it's like one or two outliers. And then when you get to the final four teams, maybe one outlier and then it's the same quarterbacks every year. I would love to credit them with designing a game. was so perfectly constructed to allow this to happen. But, I mean, I think parity is probably the word that we use, but it's really randomness.

To your point, you said math. Like, it's the same thing. And I think that within that those calculations, there are things that you can do that can improve your probability marginally. And I think that's the difference. That's why it's not truly parity. It's like randomness, but the good teams are going to be good. You know, like it's randomness, but we're still going to end up with the best

quarterbacks around at the end. And then there's the randomness. of those quarterbacks getting hurt and that changes things. But I think that's what it really comes down to is it gets into the analytics of all of this stuff where you think of, we talk about analytics as if it's some big like defining decision or like future altering and aspect of the game. But in actuality, running everything properly through the right analytical math, increase your win probability, three, four percent.

It's not as important as having. a real damn good quarterback. So other than the quarterback part of it and the math thing that we're discussing, I do think there's, I mean, it'd be easy to overlook this part of it, but what is it about breaking camp and kind of knowing that, all right,

we have a good group. Like, sure, it could be the randomness of the turnover margin or whatever, but like we have a group to be able to have advantage in that 3% for 4% range that you're talking about. I think that's the thing.

It's like we all think we have a good group. I was fortunate enough to never really have a bad season in my, like, reasonably short NFL career. So I don't, I've never felt good about my team and just been totally wrong. But I think most of the time it's like, you just kind of know. And specifically with these joint practices, those, you just kind of know. You're rounded enough. You're like, we're good. As long as we don't get the bad bounces, things are going to work out or are going to work out in our favor.

So it's, I wish I could put something on it, but it helps a lot when you have a good quarterback, which I hate to get back to that. But that's a psychological impact. It helps a lot when you have a positional group that you trust, especially on defense. If you know, at least for me, it works out this way often.

It's like you want to be able to put the pressure on some group, which is why, like, I often advocate for like, if you got a great defensive end and there's a, and you need a corner, why not draft another great defensive event? because like the impact on your game would be if we can just rush four then that can make us into something rather than trying to slightly improve some other portion or it goes the other way if we have a great corner get another great corner we can play man coverage and blitz the shit out of people i just feel like it gives you more ability to be able to um to put pressure on the the opponent the same thing offensively it's like lean in on your offense model lean in on your wide receivers lean in on something that causes coordinating Opposing coordinators to have to restructure their defense and compromise themselves in order to stop it. Totally with you on that too.

I love when a team has a great edge and they go, we're going to go take another one in the first round. You know what? And it's like instead of, hey, we need a lineback or we need a safety, we need all these different things. It's like, man, if there's a really good edge, especially you know when it's somebody's team, some team has taken them like 15, 16. It means they're great on him was probably like the eighth best player. And you, I love when it's almost like rostered breed. we already have a stud.

Let's just add another one in the exact same unit as opposed to trying to balance some of this stuff out. I don't know. I'm sure different philosophies, different people. I'm sure there are different philosophies, and you can always find counter examples. But I think in practical ways of thinking about it, it to me feels like rather than bringing everything up to mediocre,

if I can have, if your coordinator's like, damn, how are we going to block all four of them? that to me seems much scarier than they're like, all right, we'll double this guy and then we'll go away from that corner. You know, like it seems like it's like a maze almost. It's like I want to build one big ass wall somewhere, and it doesn't have to be the D-Line. It's just the one that I think resonates with people the most.

I think having an incredible secondary is the direction that I think the Eagles are moving in. They went from being a D-Line first team to be like, and it's the Ravens. The Ravens are the example that I'm looking for. That they are about a secondary, a smart, flexible secondary. And Matt of VK is a good rusher, but like they don't have an edge rusher. Maybe the guy they drafted turns into that, but they don't have an edge rusher. Like Terrell Suggs back in the day that was like, all right, but yeah, you're ready for this guy. Yeah, you're right, because there are teams, you know, sometimes I'll use this example like Missouri in college.

It's like they always seem to have like a guy that puts up these big numbers and whatever their system is. But I don't even know necessarily if like that guy's even that good, but it may be just their approach is balance, right? And look, they've had a couple of really nice players. so I'm not diminishing the entire stretch of the front for Missouri College of history here. It's just a odd example of Baltimore likes their system and they like the support in the back end, so they feel like our guys will get there because we're so tight back there.

So if I were to kind of put you on the spot here a little bit, could you run through NFL units defensively that you trust the most? I mean, as many as you want where you're starting the season going, okay, maybe I don't like this, maybe I don't like this, but this group of these four to five guys, one of my favorite groups in the league. Yeah, I mean, I think we named them already, like the Broncos. I'm really excited about that because they have that secondary,

and they're another team, doubled down on what they do well. They went and got a corner. The secondary, and then Benito, who's a great pass rusher on top of it, which that unit I really feel good about. There's the obvious ones of, like, O-Line. I think there's concern about Ragnow and with the Lions replacing that, but, like, that O-Line is one that I trust.

I think the Ravens secondary is something that allows, allows them a ton of flexibility. I like the Texans to Texas front is incredible. I think they are going to be a problem. And I want to do one that will surprise you a little bit. It's like, I really kind of like the Lions defense. We'll see what happens. But like the way that they continued,

reminds me a little bit of the Bills defense is that they lose people. They don't have a ton of big names, but they somehow continue to be productive and effective. And we spent so much time last year talking about how the Lions losing to Aidan Hutchinson and never really having a compliment to Aidan Hutchinson was going to kill them. They were still pretty good on defense for most of the season. And now assuming he comes back and he was on a defensive player at a year pace, Hutchison. The students, assuming he comes back effective, I think that defense,

they might start shifting a little bit more to being a, like, defense-centric team rather than relying so much on that O-line. and Ben Johnson since he's gone. I don't know that we're going to throw Jacksonville or any of the units necessarily into the conversation, but I know you want to talk about Travis Hunter. What do you hope they do with him this year? Yeah, one of the tough things I think about doing what we do is that we analyze these things. And so it sometimes sucks the fun out of it.

And Travis Hunter is, I mean, it's cool the shit, man. I think we all need to be reminded. Like, we got into this because fucking like cool shit. And I, if I'm being honest, if I was Travis Hunter's agent or if I was Travis Hunter or someone or even a coach, I might be super cautious. And I remember we first started talking about this. I'm like, well, you got to do this first. You got to do that. And in order to preserve him, like, I want show hanging football.

Like, I would like to be able to tell this story at some point. It's like I saw this man do this once in a lifetime amazing thing. So honestly, I'm turning into a bit of a fan. I'm rooting for it and I'm suspending any bit of like analysis about it. Like I just want to see it happen. It may be impossible, but I want to see him try. You know, it's a bit like the Otani conversation where, you know, you just feel like sports put these limitations on everybody.

I mean, look, this is something we talk about in life. You know, I feel like we typecast actors. We actually typecast every. We typecast each other, work typecasts us all the time. You can do this. You can't do this. And it's like, well, no, you don't want to give me a chance. So then if I don't do it well, then somebody asks you why I was given the chance.

So it's just safer for you. Safeness is a big motivator here in the typecasting and the limitations we put on each other. So you have a tonny who it's like, you know, I can actually do both these things and do both these things at like an absurdly elite level. And you wonder how many other guys could have done it if baseball were more accepting of it. And look, you mentioned champ. you know the woods and stuff is it was like cool because he had a couple of catches but i mean you go back through it like Travis when this when you look at the snap count and you go this guy is doing it at a level that no one was really allowed to do it at high level football like this

how hard would it i mean i know it's kind of unfair to be like what would be like for you to run 60 routes a game on top of everything else put us in that mode of trying to figure out what this would mean for them to try to use him this much? So I can't imagine what it would be like, because I felt like hell after playing one side of the ball. In college, you play more snaps, so maybe that'll help a little bit. And I think that it's possible that you just get to a point

where it's a point of diminishing fatigue or pain because I feel like I can't be any sore the day after than I was the day after I played a game. So I'll put that aside. And I think to your point, This is, you're right, we run the risk of getting into a much deeper, like, philosophical, social theological conversation about this. But because of the, like, closed ecosystem of the NFL and the lack of, like, true life or death, I mean, like, not life or death, but true, like, existence or non-existence of an organization pressure is, like, you're going to be more conservative, which is why we see most, like, innovation come up through college. Because, like, if you suck in college and you don't have the right players,

you're going to just fall to the bottom. There's nothing to do about it. And I think the fact that Travis Hunter started at HBCU is part of the reason why this is, like, a real situation. It's like, he was at the school where he was like, all right, you want to do everything? You can do everything. He proved that he could do it there. And then he did it on a higher level. So, like, I think that's part of the reason why we're getting this is because that's the unique thing about him.

And to your point, there's a couple different ways to approach you. is Travis Hunter is some sort of free commutation of the human species that allows him to do something else that no one else is doing. That's possible, but that seems unlike. What seems more unlikely is the strictures of like the way that we think about things has limited our ability to imagine that it can be done by anybody else. I find it hard to believe that no one. If it, I guess that's barring Travis actually successfully doing it, find it hard to believe that no one. in the history of the football could have done it like it could be done i would think but it just hasn't been because everything so specialized and you go to a big time school no we're not going to

put you on both sides of the ball doesn't make sense do you think dion could have done it yeah yeah i mean i find it hard to believe watching return punts like yeah i mean he caught some passes he ran some reverses i remember watching those 49ers and cowboys games uh when he did it for both sides, which he really cemented the value of free agency when wherever he went, that team won the Super Bowl immediately after pre agency was introduced. But yeah, I think Dion definitely could have done it. Yeah, it would almost feel disrespectful for anyone to go, no, Dion couldn't do that. And I'd add this to like the Dion part of it is if people wanted to dump on him, it like, oh, he's not very good in run support. It's like, you know what? Cool. Like, who cares? So it's

not like you're talking about it, some strong side safety in the 90s going, I need you to come down and just crack into everything here and help. No, I'm just going to do this and no one's ever going to throw over here. And this whole side of the field is gone in a way that maybe the sport has never seen. And I'll make sure I'm also protecting my body. Like, so I think that there's a, there's almost a, it's not a very football thing to say, but to pull it off, there's probably some body management within the game for it to be even a possibility. of being sustainable over the course of a season. I mean, and we're only talking about the edge players.

You think that Trent Williams couldn't play detackle if he wanted to? You think Tristan works? Couldn't run like tight. Like the idea that the most athletic guys, I mean, you think Aaron Donald couldn't pull or play center? Like, these guys can get it done. They're super athletes. Yeah, like would Larry Allen be easy to block?

No. Larry Allen is destroying your guards and centers. Put them inside and let him. destroy them like it just it seems silly to think that as specialized the game is so obviously i don't think there any tackles that could play corner but like within reason within your who you would go up against like i i think it's pretty fair to assume i think the mental part of the game is it's much more harder than the physical part especially defensively as preparing is a lot about learning week to week and i think that'll be tougher for Travis hunter than anything

you sent me a question which I think it means you want to answer it because it's a really good question so I don't know if you already have no I don't I sent you a question because I thought it would be interesting to discuss anyway I'm sorry go ahead no no it's exactly the question was this

is what would be the worst part of being an NFL owner and I think my gut reaction with it is that I guess getting to a point in life where I literally cared zero about what someone thought of me and i know that sounds very like unionish and and all that i just feel like the NFL owners had a run of of excess and greed where they were like and you're going to go back a few years to be like what did they do like what happened with the like they did this and they just didn't give a shit the entire time and it didn't impact the

it wasn't like anybody was going you know what i think the NFL owners are like a special tier of greed so therefore I will no longer watch their product. Like, that's never going to happen. It's not going to happen. If I wanted to give an earnest answer there, and it's something that I think about in all sports, but we'll keep it to NFL here, even though we know it'll probably wander a bit,

is whether it's the NFL and the extra games, and I still don't understand why one team gets the buy, but we know what's going to happen. It'll be two teams. It'll expand it again. They're going to add an extra game. the multiple platforms that you're on and my favorite thing is when they put the games on Christmas

and it was like now families can enjoy our product together and I'm like well so if I don't have an immediate family does that mean I can't like the NFL as much now as other people liking the NFL today better than I am and I don't love the kind of marketing packaging of like no you're just fucking going for it you are all about greed and I'm not even criticizing the greed I always wonder whether it's college football expansion

of the playoffs, realignment in the conferences, the NBA products, everything all of these sports are trying to do, and we'll maybe keep it to the sports that we talk about regularly,

that line of saturation. So if I were with the NFL, I would just wonder, and we might not even be close to whatever that line is. I don't know. I can't tell you, hey, past this point,

you will now be a diminished product because it doesn't even feel like we're even close to whatever that line is. Maybe it wouldn't bother me because I'd be so old and rich. I'm like, 20 years we went too far but the line at that line of saturation where you now become a declining

product is is one of my favorite philosophical things to think about despite not even thinking I'm even close to having an answer for it yeah I mean and this is why I know you mentioned union stuff but assuming that we're going to 18 games I think it's probably an assumption that most people have made but maybe it doesn't actually happen because of the union and this is why having a healthy and strong union is important is because I think that assuming that the owner's will know the right place to stop is unlikely and unreasonable because more games means more money, which is normally, to your point, the drive and greed. And, like, having an expectation that the people with most power will lead you benevolently is, like, a ridiculously dumb trap.

It's like, you expect people to act in their own interests, and that would be acting their own interest. A strong union would push back and probably land at a right spot. But I think that I don't know whether they're right or wrong. I think that the owners look at this more like gradually stretching the elasticity. I don't think they think that there's a line. I think they believe that we'll move it a little bit, let them get used to it. We'll move it a little bit more,

let them get used to it. And I don't know that in their mind, they're like, oh, this is the right number of games. They think that they can keep moving it until like the frog and the boiling pot situation. Whereas they're like, they'll still like it. This still feels nice. So I don't imagine that they do,

Think about it that way. They think about ways to increase revenue. And the easiest way to increase revenue is sell more widgets. So they've got to produce more widgets to sell. Yeah, they're not wrong for wanting Christmas games. If they can do it, you know they're going to have the partners. More people are going to watch it. The NBA is not their concern.

So I don't say that. I just was kind of offended of like the insinuation that it's like, hey, this is about football. and families and all this kind of stuff. And like, all right, because nobody, I don't know, I just wish we were in a place that Saturday. You were like, yeah, it's more money and it's Christmas. And people are home and they're going to watch our game more than they're going to watch basketball.

Like, we don't care. And then, you know, the Saturday stuff that will happen once college filters out? And you always wonder, like, will they ever go just, hey, we're going to do this? I know that there's laws against the Friday stuff with high school football and everything. But where this is. Yeah, right. So, I mean, I think any. is possible right and i'd argue college football has um not a popularity not a value thing

but i think it's a diminished product with the realignment and expansion i think most people disagree with me i think they've heard their product long term for short term chaos that doesn't make any fucking sense uh and everybody's heard that ran for me too many times so i'm not going to give it to again i don't know i don't know did you have something better did you have something better that's different about some sort of self-doubt. I didn't have self-doubt or guilt would even be possible for an NFL owner right now.

I mean, I think what I would imagine is the most difficult thing for an NFL owner is being an NFL owner, and I guess we can bring other sports into it too because I don't quite understand with like gross spec selling the Celtics and

Janie Bus selling the Lakers. I think for some of those situations, it's more obviously a money, but I think Mark Cuban comes to mind as someone where you don't think it's about money. It's like, why would I ever sell this? Like, it seems like at this point in my life, this is the coolest most fun thing. I don't need another billion dollars. Like, I don't get, I see why Jerry Jones is like, I got tons of money. Like getting some sort of liquidation event doesn't change my life. You know, it's awesome. Owning the goddamn cowboy. So I guess I was wondering what

would drive someone to sell the team. And the thing that I would think is tougher. And this probably comes from my experience in negotiations is that in the NFL, being an owner of a team is pretty cool, but not being on the management council. Because in your life, you have so much power. And so the management council is a smaller group of owners that are actually the people that are doing the negotiations, making all the big, they're like helping Roger essentially run the league. I imagine that when you have built up enough money to buy a team, and you are the king of everything and you're accustomed to running everything and making all the decisions, being an owner who is not on the management council,

that would drive me crazy. The toughest thing about being an owner, I would think, is having to listen to other owners and also they all only have one vote. It's like having to lobby people to do shit that I want to do. No, we do what I want to do because we always do what I want to do. That's a really good one. That's a really good one for baseball. Like if you'd ask me and we're not going to talk about baseball ownership, but,

You know, the thing that always kind of drove me crazy, and it's, again, it's messaging, right? Whenever there was any kind of work stoppage in baseball, it's always packaged as like the greedy players. We've gotten better at that, all right? But from being a kid to where we're at now, there's been progress with better understanding of what the players are fighting for and a lot of times fighting against. But a lot of the problems that baseball has is you have about five guys in business in that sport that shouldn't be in the business. And if I'm an owner of a team that's not even talking about the Yankees Dodgers, well, Red Sox are a mid-market team now. But you can't, I can't imagine what those owners meetings are like looking at the guys that own those bottom feeders where you go, dude, your salary, your total team payroll would have been like 21st in 2001.

Like this is a, this is a joke. So whatever. It's free ride. Like it seems annoying. And I think from the NFL standpoint, like there's more revenue shares. So it's not as much an issue. And then the salary cap and with the salary floor impacts that things differently. But there's nothing that I have from negotiating and talking to Jerry Jones.

He hated more than the owners who were at the bottom and who weren't trying to make money. Like he would reference the Bengals not selling the naming rights for the stadium all the time. Whereas our CBA negotiation, I'm sure, not I'm sure. Like it was a lot about trying to take back a larger portion. but it was also meant designed to encourage local teams or teams to be more aggressive about generating revenue locally. The divisions are the gulfs between players are enormous. It's not as big between owners,

but they are still some massive gulfs between owners and the groups that they're in and how they feel about each other. In that June, I think 27th episode that you had, again, Dominic Foxworth Show, Pod. I guess I don't have to get the exact date. But you started kind of going through some of the NBA and NFL comparisons with the CBA. Who do you think has – this feels like a leading question. Who has the best CBA as somebody who worked on this with the union for the players?

And you also worked for the NBA. Yeah. I mean, I think it's – I'd even be willing to throw baseball in there. I think sometimes talking about it is hard because – of the different dynamics in different leagues. It's hard to argue that the top-tier baseball players, like, make out the best. It's not true about the rest of Major League Baseball, because I think players in baseball get the smallest portion of revenue

out of any of the major sports as a percentage. But we get skewed by the big numbers, and the guys will get the ridiculously huge contracts. But the last time I checked, they were the lowest of it. basketball players have a ton of power and leverage, too, but they're such a small community. I mean, I think my biases still remain, though. Like, I think that there are, it's hard to compare these things apples to apples because

they aren't, you know, and like the things that concerns and the leverage is in the friction in the NFL and the opponent in the NFL is so much more difficult than any of these other sports. It's hard to measure the CBAs up against each other. But I don't know. I think the funny thing about like free agency

is like the thing that we all look at. I did an episode recently with Howard Bryant about the 1987 strike from football players. And it's just a reminder that we still don't have true free agency. We pretend as if we do and we celebrate it as if we do.

But we still have a ton of restrictions across every league for players, even if you include the draft, it's like how restricted free agency? And then when you actually become a free agent, how free are you? I think the CBAs take a lot more into account as far as that's

concerned, but I think it's in arguable that if you're a young player, you could choose to be a star in any one of these sports. Like, you go baseball, basketball, then football, right? Yeah, no question. I mean, the baseball part of it is high end, but you are

right and i remember right i'm just saying measuring high in like the top top you could be one of these like it's hard to argue with what baseball is providing for their top tier when san dieo had the all-star game cannell and i did a radio show from there and we got rob manfred on and i guess he got really pissed about a question i asked because then somebody was like why the fuck he didn't say it but somebody who was with him was like why did he say that and then some staffer from mspan came over was like what did you say to manfred and i'm like what because I think we got Tony Clark, too. And at that time, the year-by-year trends,

I don't have it in front of me, but to your point a couple minutes ago, the baseball players, it was going in an alarmingly wrong direction for just overall percentage of the revenue that was going to the players. So, I mean, I have a number in front of me now that says it was 44% in 2015,

and it's back, I think, to 47% now, which is closer to it but you know it is funny like the players in the NBA used to get closer to 60 that deal that they did that everybody got mad about in the NFL was it like 10 years ago or it was like a 6040 split and I think it was was it the bill's owner that left was like I have no idea what even just happened in there and then it was like hey next time around this isn't happening again right and we've talked a lot about it's not about winning it's it's how much ground did we lose? Like, what changes do the owners want to implement?

We're all temporary here, but the players are more temporary than the owners are temporary. And I, you know, this is another one of those conversations where it's like we all have landed on like how 50-50 is just right. Who decided that?

Agreed. I don't believe 50-50 is just right. You own your team into perpetuity and you handed down to your children while the players particularly in football are taking like... I don't want to be hyperbolic, but the more Hamlin, man.

Like, like, it's real risk playing football. So, like, I get that you don't pay people for the risk that they're taking. You pay them for the product that they're providing. But it just, yeah, us landing that somewhere around 50-50 is the right number to me is part of the problem and it's a bunch of problems and power dynamics. Because you're right about us in the media,

take being better, having better information about, like, where we should side in these arguments. But when it comes down to it, I've been there for a couple of different sports. When it gets to the end, the people in the media are more concerned about pissing off the teams than they are the players. And inevitably, and the players are more recognizable and obviously younger and come across in a way that people are easy to turn against. Which is why I've had these conversations specifically with a bunch of the union stuff, the trouble that the NFLPA is climbing out of now. I've had these conversations with a bunch of people

where it's like you've got to be ready to fight and it's it always boils down to that and hopefully you don't get there but you always have to be ready to fight if you're in a union let's end here then what's your biggest takeaway

of where the union is at right now after all the Lamar Jackson stuff that we learned about which it's really concerning because there's parts of it that are just straight up fucked up But if you didn't read anything, I think some of the headlines were really sensationalized about, like, was this, and I'm not trying to diminish, diminish any of this stuff, because I don't have time to have Pablo on right now, but nobody does. We all do, but we all hate them, too.

It turned into, holy shit, the NFL did this, Lamarja. And the way you're looking at me, I think you probably just take it from here and do a better job because it seems like you understand what I'm trying to say better than maybe I do. No, I mean, I think the internal stuff in the union was incredibly alarming from Lloyd Howl. And, like, there were some parts in there that were kind of funny and, like, him changing the parking space number to 32 in honor of his favorite player, O.J. Simpson, which is just ridiculously out of touch and kind of hilarious. but also using union funds to go to spend all night at a strip club. Like, I don't personally love strip clubs, but I don't judge you throw all the money you want at fat asses. I get it.

I understand it. Do not throw the players money, though. Like, those things are huge issues and problems. But I think what I can say about the union since then is sometimes, and this happens in all organizations, is it's like an evolutionary process is where you sometimes have to bottom out to wake everybody up.

And it seems like they've hired, the guy that they've hired now, David White, has at least has some union experience, the interim guy, and they're going to have an election, I think, again, in March to have a real, or have a permanent person in there.

I think all that is encouraging, and now the players are more engaged. That's encouraging. The other stuff about collusion is like, we know it. we know it. We've always noted. We don't think it's going to stop. It's important to try to reduce it and

curtail it. It's unrealistic to assume that they won't be talking to each other and they won't be working together and collaborating. This goes back to the conversation about competition and this is again, you and I, when we get old and don't care, we can have a podcast episode together

where we go down all these roads that we keep leading to. But I think this is like a fundamental understanding about like who you want to have power and how you get power to other people. And I think we all view ourselves as like future NFL owners and future business owners and future billionaires. And it is a funny thing about like American culture. Because anything that we've ever accomplished, and it's not just us, anybody's ever accomplished as a result of collective action. Nothing real has ever had.

happened because one great person did it. And we tell all our stories as if like this one guy did this all by himself. But actually like any historical achievement that we're proud of or ashamed of as a result of a huge collection of people believing in, sacrificing and committing to something. And so I don't know. I see that the same way as in sports I see in life. So I think that's encouraging to me as it feels like the players are paying attention. and are going to come together, hopefully.

And I think I made this point earlier is I don't think it's just good for the players. I think it's good for the future health of the game. Like the places where the league has too much power are the places where the league gets itself in trouble. Like Goodell being having all the power over discipline and seeing all the appeals. Like led to bounty gate and deflate gate and the Ray Rice. Like all those things are a result of the league having too much power. And I think the same thing can be true about expanding too aggressively more games. Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox.

No, that was good. You were getting hot. You were getting hot. That was a good 45 minutes. Dominique Foxworth, you could check out this podcast again, multiple episodes every week, getting ready for the football season. But I love nerding out on that stuff with you. So always good to catch up.

All right, buddy. See you. The new BMO, V-I-Porter MasterCard, is your ticket to more. More perks. More points, more flights. More of all the things you want in a travel rewards card, and then some. Get your ticket to more with the new BMO ViPorter MasterCard, and get up to $2,400 in value in your first 13 months.

Terms and conditions apply. Visit bemo.com slash ViPorter to learn more. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriole. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. The email address is LifeAdvice. RR.R. at gmail.com. If you're watching on YouTube or our Spotify app, and you're like, is your silhouette at Hugh Taylor's studio?

Which shed is he from? We had an issue with the hotel this morning here on Martha's Vineyard. I asked for late checkout. And I know people are going to kind of turn it into standing up on the plane because people, for whatever reason, are just obsessed with the idea of finding out whether or not you might be a hypocrite. Because I've talked about late checkout. I was like, if everybody wanted to lay checkout or early check in, you know, there's some turnover issue, turnover issue on rooms.

I had some hotel managers follow up with me on that and say, and most hotels are 75% vacant most of the time. So you actually could check out earlier, check out later, be accommodating. So I was like, look, I'm taping a pod. And I know this is a bit of a banask. I was a concerning way I can check out at noon instead of 11. And the guy was excited. He was excited to be like, no.

I was like, look, I understand, you know, we're near the boat and the whole thing. And the weather isn't great today. But I am taping this pod. And you don't want to be like, it's one people actually listen to. Well, so I was going to ask you, because we were talking about this beforehand. Like, I know you're not to, like, throw my name out there, guy. but did you be like Google me? No, none of that.

None of that. He was so excited. He was so excited to just say, no, I can't do that. I was like, well, I gladly offer you a few hundred dollars to be able to check out one hour later. You know, in some places, they're like, same parts. They're like, dude, do whatever you want to do, man. Some hotels are like, man, it's already, it's a noon checkout anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Some of the Airbnb stuff that 10 a.m. feels a little tough.

But again, if you're turning over an entire house, I can understand. And so I was just like, well, you know, I know checkouts at 11. Is there any way I can just, you know, can you get me to 12? I'll give you a few hundred bucks. He's like, absolutely not. We're fully booked. We have no more late checkout availability. I was like, so you do have late checkouts?

He's like, not anymore. I was like, all right. So then I had a pack up. I was going to go to the library, but the library is being remodeled. But I just love that because it's being remodeled. Learning is a priority. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's long. It wasn't great for me now, short term, long term. It's great for the next generation. Yeah, shout to the kids, you know. Exactly. Great job, Surrey. So Allison got on the blower and found me a studio where I don't know if that's Phil Lush's base from the Cornell show. But we're ready to go.

How is everyone? Kyle looks great. There's some cloud cover today and it's falling away as we speak. So I guess this is just what happens when I try to do this thing outside. I promise this isn't like a shameless point, but you really just got to watch the show on video. There's just too much to miss today. So if you don't, you got to check it out. Kyle's got the best setup I've seen.

I mean, this rivals potentially Rosillas. We got a pool in the background. We got, what is that like a space heater behind you, too? Like on the porch? Oh, yeah, we got it. Yeah, my brother got that. My young brother got that as a gift. I'm like, dude, that's how you give a gift to your parents.

What do they need? I got my dad some fucking meta glasses that he gave back to me last year. My brother's like, this thing is timeless. So maybe I should take a page out of his book. A couple things going on. I'm starting to think Kyle has a little bit more. than we were led to believe because between the railing,

between that lamp, this is a brand new thing. They've been planning this for years. They're very proud of it. The railing, the in-ground pool, the landscaping, that fence situation,

the angle that you're at, you almost get a bit of a horizon. I wanted to give you a peak at the pool. Yeah, there's a tiny little basketball court that we built like a decade ago over there too. Yeah.

Like probably just comes out to the foul line, but, you know, works for us. This is like Chandler-Parsons style. It's just out in Malibu. Yeah, just you know upstate New York you know what next time student loans come up let's pay attention to Kyle let's pay attention to what how does it work I left pot stand scot free man

I don't know Fannie who um was I wrong to tell the hotel I'm never staying there again because I did say that well not not if you are prepared to commit to that I don't know what the what the accommodations are at the vineyard but if if you're going to be jammed up like of you know for a wedding i don't know what you'd be back there for but you gotta find a place to stay i mean would you ever tuck your tail between your legs if it was your last option knowing you how i know you well knowing you how i know you you'd rather be miserable and stay somewhere that you don't like just to prove a point so yeah it's kind of on you would you sleep in the car on the summer night or would you if that was the only place would you go back there

and just be like hey sleep in a car no not now not now but uh Yeah, I just was like, I can't. I can't believe you can't do me a solid for an hour and it's worth late. It's not like I'm hung over, you know, Vegas. Can you imagine? Is there any way? Is there really way I can check off? My flight was delayed.

I like, all right, dude. Okay, let's get to some emails. All right, a couple follow-ups to help the nation, prison guy. 6-3-195, bench, 135, really 120, but hey, I have long arms. basketball comp is Jeremy Sohan because I probably should never play point card. I'm sure you've gotten 20 of these responses. We did get a few, but Dominic probably got hacked, and this is a scam. It sounded like a scam in the minute you said, Guy, I don't talk to and message me on Facebook.

Scammers try to create a sense of urgency to get you to frazzled before asking for payment. They often send mass messages to everyone to see who will respond. You shouldn't respond, even if you know it's a scam because it'll encourage them to make the effort to try something more sophisticated later and also don't reveal personal info telling them you have kids might encourage them to center the next scam around them, not trying to be scary, just saying they could call and pretend to be a teacher saying your kid is in danger, but that's just imagining a worst case scenario. It's not obvious if you're keeping your guard up. I only really know because I watch this YouTube recently on scam frequently asked questions. Also, my grandma keeps getting asked about spam text saying she's claimed to be Amazon. So it's top of mind. Yeah, I think everybody's kind of been in that game right now. I mean, I think I get one a day from Twitter X that is like, hey, you've lost your blue check or something like that. You're like, the horror. What am I going to do? I got, yeah, there's like, there's like postal service ones that I get all the time.

Yeah, I got a UPS ground one yesterday that looks legit, but then you look at the actual contact information. It's like, you know, 14 numbers. You know, like, that's probably not legit. A close friend, as a dad that's convinced he won these sweepstakes. And he's just And it's such a bummer I hate it so much I just always wonder like

Well it gets to a point where we just go Suburban Punisher and like seven guys Get together and they're like Things haven't really worked out You know it'd be like a men's support group For guys that were You know the wives just left So kids hate him

And they go you know what Let's Let's round up some of the Let's get a posse together here And start kicking indoors Um I'm not making any ice correlation here. Nice.

Look, I just, it bums me out so much. It bums me out for the older people. And I just think you're such an incredible piece of shit if you're involved in this stuff. I think I told this story before. But when I was in college, somebody, a scammer had like, you know, a few pieces of information about me, like, where I'm going to school and stuff like that, called my grandmother. And I guess did like a bad version of my voice saying that I'm in jail and I needed money. She calls my dad. my dad like went like four hours without calling me just like yeah checks out kiles in jail he needs

five grand he leaves me like a really nasty voicemail and i'm like what the hell's going on and he just he was like yeah adds up kiles in jail i was like dude what are you talking about but so everyone in the family was just like oh kiles and jail he needs money let's see if we could find a different way to help him your dad was like let him let him marinate in there for a little while yeah let him sit on that he just left me a terrible well it's like dad i'm like i was at the library last night i'm like i'm doing regular college stuff here but it was just funny to me that everyone was just like well guess he's in jail knew new one of these days i heard that phone call was coming proud of you yeah they nailed it

they nailed that one i mean they maybe they had more information on me yeah might have done a little research okay speaking of more research our razor guy is checking in wife's razor follow-up i work for jillette have to chime in quickly on the email about female women's razors i work in marketing a Gillette, specifically on the women's razor band, the Gillette Venus, you might recall I chimed in previously on the emailer who had irritation when wearing a t-shirt after shaving his chest. I think we do remember that. Yeah. You covered it well, but I'll fill in the gaps on the two main points. You know what? I think that's a really nice approach to this because I think right now society, if you're online too much, you're obsessed with. I know what you said, but here's the seven

ways you may have gotten it wrong. Number one, price versus men's razor. In short, women's razor are now priced the same as men's razors for like, like. That's quote, like for like items, unquote. However, the perception of an upcharge for women's products known as the pink tax still persists in the industry. Now, there are certain women's razors that are indeed more expensive than men's. However, all caps, the higher pricing is behind the additional features that are offered. That was underlined for impact. You guys nailed this part, big lotion bars, lubrication strip, the economic script were designed for use on a woman's body

communicating to consumers at higher pricing is behind these additional features, though, proves to be very tricky. Hence, the continued consumer confusion on this point. Just to revisit, because I already said it on Tuesday, when I was challenged on oppression,

somehow in the middle of an ESPN radio segment, yeah, and the counter to my confusion, because it wasn't like I was sitting there being like, hey, nobody's oppressed. And it was just like, you know, before we get to Ben Rothesberger, if he still has it, women are taking advantage with razor pricing. And it's the kind of statement that's made with such certainty. And I would say more often than not most other guys that are on the air in that spot would be like,

I haven't done a ton of pricing research on razors. I got no sense. I got no stats. Yeah, I've got basketball reference up. I can pull up and play here on Synergy. I don't have a lot of hard data and I'd have to see the trends much like the Big Ten success in college football

like let's play this out we need multiple data points I don't have that in my bag and so it's such an easy win to say well when we're oppressed look at the price of raisers and I knew it was such incredible bullshit and I was certainly raging on the inside of like you think you're killing it

with this point but it's so fucking stupid and ill-placed and pointless and it's my shirt show and I just was like, look, obviously it's been years and I still don't love that back and forth. But I love that our Razor guy got in here basically claiming or I would say not claiming, telling us the truth because he works in the industry and proving all the internal thoughts that I had where I was like, that just sounds like a really cool thing to say that's really hard to debunk in the midst of, you know, I did a lot of AFC East Prep today. You don't have

to follow up on any of that. All right. Point number two. Benefits of multi-blade razor over straight edge, essentially multi-blade razors pull and lift the hair slightly with each blade, ultimately cutting the hair below the surface of the skin. For most, that gives the ultimate smooth feeling of a close shave. Cutting hair below the skin, though, can contribute to bumps and ingrown hairs. My two cents, nothing is perfect. But just use the multi-blade razor. Three, four, five blades is all basically the same.

Those things have highly engineered. They're highly engineered by some really smart people. whatever you do use, just exfoliate before and moisturize after. That's just great because you get to buy more Gillette products. You may recall from our chest shaving email follow-up that those are the real keys to shaving happiness. And it sounds like we have a shaving expert at our disposal. That's good. I don't, what I've realized recently is because my wife's trying to get me on like a skincare routine, you know, the aging process.

You know, you're supposed to do, you're supposed to prepare or you don't react. You know, to getting older. Good job. Yeah. And I didn't know. Like, do dudes, I don't have a skincare routine at all. I don't know. I haven't washed my face in, I don't know.

I don't wash my face really ever. You know, you just rinse it in the shower. So I didn't know if I was in the minority on that. I asked a couple of my buddies about this. You don't think what's because you're Italian? No. Okay. I just think that the meaner people might.

You don't look. Whatever you're doing, just keep doing it. Nothing. Don't clean. Yeah, don't clean yourself. Nothing. Yeah. I just have a bar of soap and I agree.

aggressively wash my face in the shower like really fast and hard and uh that's what i do i had a shower every day every day in the shower i just this is amazing one guy washes his face every day and the other guy never has well he does it in the shower he's saying right no i don't wash my face at all buddy no yeah i don't i don't put soap on my face i got my own things but uh i don't know this is like that scene in madmen where all the women are talking about their nightly facial routine and then i pat it on remember that no all right uh no well look if anybody needed anybody's facial routines from the show you've got them now yeah drop one i'm interested so anybody's got a good one got to get on that okay how about an email 510 175 no gym stats i work the night shift in a factory in the automotive

industry our shift we have around 40 to 50 employees working i've been working here for a year and a half like my job i get along with everyone i work with except i don't know the names of the people I work with on a day-to-day basis. They know my name, and I generally don't need to know their names, but I will at some point, and I wouldn't mind knowing he's a year and a half in. He's like, you know what would be nice knowing a name? His big secret. Yeah.

I wouldn't mind knowing the people's names I work with regularly. I'm not sure how to learn their names without asking. I don't want to embarrass myself by asking him. Yeah, I think you're outside of that window. I think at 18 months. It's kind of a nickname. Nicknames. It's got to go nicknames.

Didn't catch your name. Moustache. When I was For these couple months I joined a men's pickup league I love that one A bunch of dudes that I didn't know It was just a bunch of randoms from the town

I don't think I know So we're talking like probably 10 11 dudes I don't think I knew one of their names Not one We played a dozen games together Not one pass You got a name for

We're all on a group text I have no one's names there Licklerish Yeah I love Look, all right, let's keep, there's still more of the email. It's a high turnover rate, so I don't learn a lot of names, but I would like to know the names of employees I work with

and converse with regularly without embarrassing myself. So my question is, how should I approach learning close to 10 names without outing myself and coming off as an idiot? Problem solved. You're going to have to buy a meal for like the 10 people that you want to learn their names. You have them look at a menu. Then you watch them, write it down and say, hey, put your name above their order. And, you know, look, you're going to be out maybe 75 bucks.

But it's too late. Like you can't, can you go to the new guy and say, hey, can you ask him his name? I don't know that you're going to be able to avoid, I think, what you think is going to be embarrassing. I mean, you could also be the kind of person who just doesn't care. I mean, the guys that just don't care, still, I wonder if they have life figured out. Like, yeah, I've been here a year and a half. Like, what's your name again?

And it's just like, oh, Sam, you know, like, but you don't want to be that guy. Go ahead, Kyle. You seem hot on. I got two things here. It's 2025, right? You're working in a factory, right? somebody's got to have email addresses, right? There's got to be something like that.

Turn in wrenches. Or is there a calendar that you, there's got to be some sort of schedule somewhere, right? Is anybody, there's better than the food order? Is anybody on LinkedIn? It costs you less money, I think. I don't know.

Wait, LinkedIn? These guys are turning wrenches, Steve. I don't know. I don't know if anybody's on LinkedIn. You know, you get there, you just Google the company and then, you know, you look up the Facebook kind of thing there. I don't know. Window cocking,

forklifts. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's some higher up people in that. I don't know. I'm just trying. I'm just, just an idea. Yeah, I think there's got to be some sort of, are you friends with anyone on the operation side that really won't interact with everyone? You're like, I really would like, just a quick, this will take five minutes. Just maybe you could like be in the office and point when no one's looking like, who's that guy? Or there might be some way. Who's that guy? There might be, there might be like operations, who hands out the checks. I don't know. There's got to be somebody keeping shit together in the place of business who's got to know people's name. So maybe you can just walk in there and be like, you know, maybe you buy her lunch. Then you buy one lunch. You get all the information you need. What about do you throw like a little office luncheon and just hand out like those write in name tag things where you just, hey, you know, just to say that's a better idea than hey, give me your to-go order.

Post a luncheon. I'm going to get your own name tag. Hey, it's the secretary. Start an email loop and be like, I want to just stay in touch with you guys during the hours. We're not together. So everybody gave me your email. Start a fantasy. It's right now. You can do it right now. Start a low-stakes fantasy league. Yeah, but they're not going to name them their teams after themselves.

I guess actually if you look to the team. Actually, if you go to like Yama, yeah, you're right. Before you change your thing, it's like, you know, this guy's team, that guy's team. Team Craig. So a season long, who knows, it could be eight seasons. He doesn't even like football. Hates fantasy. Forgets to set his lineup all the time.

But he's like, at least I know, I know Carl. You always look like a Doug to me. Yeah, yeah. That checks out. He's our plastics guy. Learning names, I'll tell you, if you can just, as soon as you meet somebody and they're like, hi, my name is Kyle, and you go, hey, Kyle. And then you do like Kyle, Kay, looks like he's good at karate. Are you Michael Scott in this thing right now?

My friend, Pat Hearn. It does work. It does work. And I'll tell you, too, like some really successful people that I've met, it's like a magic. trick when you meet them again and they know your fucking name and I don't think it's necessarily an IQ thing I think it's something that guys whatever drives us and whatever we prioritize it is I've noticed it with some people that are really really successful and they you know there's plenty of people are successful that never have to remember anybody's names I also think if it's like

one person that then is always meeting new people and they're never necessarily like introducing themselves to massive groups of people like the math on that the ratio of it's almost unfair to expect like hey we met we met or we did all these different things but there's some people that would fall into that category and then when they remember your name you're just so blown away by the whole thing and I think they've I don't know that it's just an IQ thing I think at some point they were just like I'm determined to figure this out and there's plenty of stuff online to go ahead and do it sometimes I do it and then sometimes again in Usain Bolt speed I forget the person's name the second they've said it out loud I just black guys

as soon as you start exchanging names and I just am like, cool, I didn't listen to a thing you said. It's so strange because I feel like I'm a decent listener, but I don't know if it's because I'm nervous to like make a good impression and not screw up the handshake or something, you know, that I just don't listen to the name.

Is it nerves? I don't know, you know, you meet new people and it's like you're just, there's a lot. I guess it depends on the setting. Like for the basketball and specifically, there were so many guys that I'm like, I don't even know. This is like a hurricane of meeting new people

that I've just never. going to, I'm never going to get this. I don't know if it's nerves, but I certainly hyper focus on executing a good handshake. I'm one of those guys who my dad was like, this is important. You know what I mean? You got to have, you know, your hands got to be dry. You got to, you want to get right in the crux of that thing right there.

You know, some guys will grab, stop you early and like squeeze your fingers together. Early squeeze. Yeah, that was a fail. That was a fail. Yeah, it's like crossing the fucking railroad tracks. So yeah, I'm, I wouldn't say I black out, but I might not be 100% aware of everything else when a guy's saying his name. And I'm trying to pull off a great handshshed.

Trying to get deep in there. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, I want the physical touch. I want that to be the lasting impression, but I'm not going to remember your name in three minutes. I met somebody recently who's front name, also known as first name.

What's your front and back name? I don't know it, but I know kind of the range it is because the name is very similar to a terrorist act. Yeah. So I was like, what? Jihad? Nailed it. Curbomb?

Oh. Surrudi first cast. Just because the guy in the Eagles, you know, I don't know. Yeah. So I'm like, I think. But then it's really hard to be like, hey, jihad. What's up? And then it's like, that's not.

It's not my name. What? You thought my name was, what? That sucks. Yeah. So I'm just, I'm just what's up in it now for months. Yeah, yeah. What's up?

That's the best you could do at this point. Yeah. I don't know what else I could do. Okay, professional athlete checking in. Love when we get these. Makes us feel noticed like a sophomore at Wisconsin making a duck face on Instagram. What's up, boys? Longtime listener, first time caller, professional Hooper here, 7 foot, about 280 or so.

Basketball comp would probably be Kevin Pitznoggle at best. Pitsnoggle was a fun player He was a problem That guy must have loved him some M&M What are the odds Pitz Noggle's like actually never got into it Low It is low

It's like Woodstock 99 dude Break stuff Like right in the front Long story short I met a girl in my hometown We had a great connection Spent about a month together I loved every second of it

Wow every second as of now I'm headed back overseas to I guess he's headed to Croatia to play she called me a couple of weeks before my departure and says she doesn't want to do the long distance what do I do just let it go and chalk it up to the game try to fight for it we already planned her coming to visit and she was excited about it thanks love the show well all right Kyle go ahead you're shaking your head vehement I mean even if everyone's all in on

this long distance thing I'm dubious at best she's not already I know I'm saying I'm saying if everyone's like like, yeah, sign me up. Everyone in their relationship, I'm dubious at best. If somebody's saying this doesn't seem like it's, you know, if you're trying to convince this thing, this is like, you know, this is terrible. You're the loser. Like, you've just, you like bought a thing that's not great at the highest interest rate.

It's just not, you are the loser in this one. It sounds like she's got reservations for one reason or another. Transactional. Yes. Yeah. I just don't want to call this guy a loser. He's playing oops and groish. Correct, correct.

You, I'm just saying you're the loser in this, in this transaction. I was doing that for him more than us. I don't think, I don't think that even, I don't think she would even take this trip. You know, she might find a reason to wiggle out of it because what? It's just a text message or a phone call. Like it's not, you know, and then you're, then you've just spent, you know, I don't know how long your Croatian basketball career is going to last, but those are probably some pretty good years, you know, you might want to get a jump on whatever's next.

So I don't know. It sounds like she's trying to give you the subtle hint or not so subtle even. And, you know, maybe, maybe when you're not long distance, if you don't screw up this relationship by doing this long distance, maybe saying stuff you'd, guys will both regret and doing things you can't recover from if you just leave it at this cool point you can maybe come pick that back up when you're done uh you know off season or whenever you get back state side how is he i forget i don't remember i don't know that we got an age did we didn't get okay yeah i mean i assume he's in his i mean early 20s would be a good

guess keep the dream alive um oh i only ask is like i mean it's different but it's kind of similar We're like, I did this in college. I tried to convince a girl to keep dating. And it was just, you know, it didn't work out. Shocker. Where was she? Well, she was a year younger than me in high school still. So that was kind of a bummer.

Weirdo. First off, young from my age, born in November, was 17 in college. So don't worry about it, dude. Me too, bro. Me too. Late birthday, dude. Come on. I dated a girl who got left back.

And I went from middle school to high school. And I was like, I think we have to end this. I can't date a middle schooler, even though she's like, older than me. It's like, can't get out. The world can't get out. It's just like, we got to, we got to pause this. That feels like the right call. We got to pause this.

It's like, she's older than me, but she's, it goes to a different school, the younger one. It's like, can't do it. Yeah, you can't be telling people your dating middle schoolers, no matter how old are. No, no. Really, you can't be a younger, you can't be a ninth grader who date. What if the, listen. What if the junior high is across the parking lot? Different buses, bro.

It's different buses. Different buses. Are you kidding? Yeah, that makes sense. I just know, like, if my buddies in my group, if it was like, if I was like, if I was dating someone in middle school. Even if I was in ninth grade, I would never hear at the end of that.

Roasted, yeah. So that's probably not worth it. Yeah, that summer was it. I was like, damn, you really got me back. Come on. Back to our guy, though.

At least, I mean, you're in Croatia. It's a pretty cool country. Very cool. I feel like there is some upside here. Yeah, maybe.

I'm with Kyle. I just, people are the coastline. A lot of coastline. One of my favorite memes is that like Bosnia one? We want to go to the beach. We want to swim, no. Croatians, no.

I didn't even, I don't know. Croatia seems like a cool country. A lot of beaches. You seem probably young, I would guess. I know it's going to sting now, but you're going to be an athlete in Europe. Like, there's a good chance. And you're American. He loved every second of it, Steve.

Sometimes it's just right. Yeah, but dude, you can totally leave this at a point where she has respect for you. You have respect for her. And you never know. This is a plus 5,000 odds that this works out with all the information I have. But you could take that long shot and come back. You know what I mean? That you could come back to this thing where everything's good.

And as long as she doesn't meet somebody and have kids and whatever, you know, you could totally give this another run, you know? Maybe you got a title under your belt by then. Who knows? Ring. Ring culture. Focus on this year. I have one question of a couple points.

The most important thing is are you a 15 and 7 guy? or are you a 5 and 2 guy? Right? Like, what are we doing? What's the VORP look like? So, I didn't want to say that. If you're getting buckets, right,

if you're getting buckets, to Steve's point, it's probably going to work out. And it means you're probably going to be playing overseas for quite a while. If the end is near and it's, that window's closing a little bit tighter than you would like to admit.

And you liked every second that you spent with this girl. And it's also, by the way, no guarantee. Like, how are you going to feel if you say, hey, I'm not going to go play overseas anymore because I'm in love with this girl? And then month two, you don't love every second together. And now you're like, fuck. Now, again, if you're a 16 and 7 guy, there's probably a spot for you somewhere. I also need to know kind of where she's from.

Is she from New York City? Is she from Chicago? Is she from San Francisco? or maybe dating a guy in Croatia, although she must have a thing for tall guys. She's not going to find six, eight dudes just walking around all over the place. They're hard to find if you're into that kind of thing.

So, you know, does she have options, right? Yeah, good point. Not many, but they don't hide from you, Kyle. Well said. If she's what, Vermont, Western PA, sketchy part of Rhode Island, you know, she might be, she might be all like, again,

What's Woon socket? So why not just play it out in your head of like how much of a runway do I have as a player? I just don't like anybody who can play and get paid. And I know there comes a point where it's like it's probably time for real life and the NBA thing is never going to happen.

But I just would never be in a hurry. But maybe that's somebody who never played in the game that anyone ever cared about. So I may be the wrong person to ask about this. all right wait so what's your what's your verdict keep hooping yeah that that was that was never in doubt my i didn't want to bring that up ryan but i was thinking the same thing because my thing was like maybe she kind of realizes that you're not this is like not really a long-term solution here and she's just like well i'm not going to hitch my wagon to a guy who's averaging five

points a game and playing 10 minutes you know i don't know i'd have to be a dick you could also do sorry sir yeah i no that's it but yeah just the bummer you could also do the thing that almost no one does is hey maybe we're not going to get married after only knowing each other a month and you know I'm already signed up to go playing Croatia maybe I'll miss you maybe you'll miss me why don't you come to Croatia and check it out I'm not going to live here long term so maybe try to de-escalate the stakes de-escalate the pressure on where the relationship is just a month in but I think it'll have a lot to do with her options and where she lives because I think a lot of girls would be like women would go six eight Croatia like I'll check it out for a little while

I got nothing else going on I'm DTF like what else you know star market uh all right that'll do for the show today thanks to Surudy thanks to Wargon was Wargonne here today yeah yeah I feel bad about this hey Wargon how's it going it's good you don't got to feel bad all right good checking in yeah jonathan frees kyle ryan rusillop podcast on spotify and youtube as well and of course part of ringer spotify they were going to name me michael jordan my dad was like i don't think he can live up to it so they named me michael jared Must be 21 and older and present and select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.C. Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit RGash-Help.com. Call 1-88-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-7-7-7-7-7.org or visit MDGamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is there. Visit Gamblinghelp line, MA.org, or call 800-3-2-750-50 for 20.

24-7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-8778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.