The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Mahomes Isn’t Making Enough. Plus QB Coach Quincy Avery on Working With the Biggest Stars and Whether Top QBs Come Back to Play if CFB Is in the Spring.

Episode Date: July 7, 2020

Russillo shares his thoughts on Patrick Mahomes’s massive contract (2:38), before talking with president of Quarterback Takeover, Quincy Avery, about his winding path to training some of the top college and NFL QBs including DeShaun Watson, Jalen Hurts, Justin Fields, and more (14:55). Then Ryen debuts a new segment titled “Ryen vs. The Internet” and answers a listener-submitted "Life Advice" question before signing off (51:40). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right. I hope everybody had a great fourth. Ryan Russillo here today. First post July 4th episode of Ryan Russillo podcast on the ringer podcast network. And it is brought to you by state farm. Just like basketball. The game of life is unpredictable.

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Before I get to my homes here, I want to remind you that Whoop is a fitness wearable that I've been using for the last few months to track my training, sleep, and recovery, and it's been awesome. The key to Whoop is that you wear it all day long and never miss a beat. They have a really smart charging system where the battery pack

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and enter RASILLO, R-U-S-S-I-L-L-O at checkout to save 15%. Sleep better, recover faster, train smarter, optimize your performance with Whoop. So here's the deal. Back from a couple days out of town, first time out of LA in four months. Went up to Mammoth. You know much about Mammoth there, Kyle? You didn't have a car for a long time, so I'm going to go ahead and guess you don't know much. No, I thought that was on the East Coast, like Montauk or something. Definitely not, though. Different vibe entirely, Montauk and Mammoth.

One's a mountain in California. The other's not. Right. So I went up there. I did a little fly fishing. I was just excited to be outside. Just felt real good to be outside. Even took a video of me fly fishing, but haven't posted it yet.

So don't know what to do with that content. Excited about it. But, you know, some edits and whatnot. We have to figure that out. But then once it was Friday morning, you could just see everybody was like, OK, I'm going to Mammoth 2. I was like, all right, time to get out of here. And my last day of fishing was not very good.

I picked a bad spot. Bug situation was just larvae everywhere all over my ear. I mean, intense larvae. March. It was like a march where I went, this is a lot. And then I was worried it was going to be in my car and I was going to be bringing some species back to my house. So first day of fishing, terrific.

Day two, not as good. Couldn't find a guide this time, but kept trying to remember everything the guides in Montana had taught me years ago. So, you know, that's where we're at. So you did not do any of those things, but you're good, right? Because it's been a little while. It's been about a week for us. Has been about a week.

Actually, it was strange. I was waking up this morning and I just kind of sat on the edge of my bed waiting for this to start. Well, I'm glad that you have that kind of anticipation towards us working together. I want to change some of the things that we're doing on the pod a little bit. Maybe I'll explain that more a little bit later. It's nothing more than me just kind of driving around a lot of time thinking. And today we're going to have Quincy Avery on who's a quarterback coach who I met a couple of years ago. I know Dilfer loves him and he's working with Deshaun Watson and this was booked before Mahomes did his huge deal. We're going to

do like one life advice at the end of most of the podcasts. And then I just want to do this new thing where it's me versus the internet, where something happens on the internet and then everybody freaks out about it. And I don't freak out about it because I'm just surprised that people get this excited about it. So we'll do that a little bit later. But today's open is on the new Patrick Mahomes contract. Just over $500 million, depending on what you're looking at. It's a 12-year deal, but it's kind of a 10-year deal in new money. And when I looked at what the full value of this was

and what it could be going into 2031, I think he's underpaid. I'm serious. I know what everyone's going with today. $500 million. This is nuts. He's changed the landscape of quarterbacks in the NFL, and I hope that actually does happen.

Seeing a football contract next to baseball contracts like Mike Trout or other basketball contracts where we're talking about half a billion. And as I dig through the numbers and what the projections are, and this is very basic, basic math, I'm going to make an argument that Mahomes should have gotten more, or at least, at the very least, we'll redo this deal somewhere and maybe get more. I don't know. All right, so let's look at this real quick. All right, in 2010, that was officially an uncapped year,

but we're going to use a salary cap number of about 120 million, okay? Because it was 123 before and then 120 after. So let's just say 120 million in 2010. Peyton Manning was the highest paid player that year at just about $16 million, according to my records here in 2010. Peyton Manning was the highest paid player that year at just about $16 million, according to my records here in 2010. Again, with NFL stuff and researching, it could be a dollar off here or there. I like to usually go with the average annual salary to really figure out what you're going to make because in a lot of these NFL deals, the cash paid out in the first 12 months

is absurd. And wide receivers always like doing this, then agents do it and then we all follow because still somehow in 2020 the media is still awful at understanding nfl contracts but like a receiver will be pissed he's not making enough and then we'll build a graphic that shows that this receiver who's really good is like eighth and salary for that year and you're like yeah but you're conveniently forgetting that he was paid like 19 million the first 12 months of this first deal and now we're two years removed from that. So it's not really the truth. Like, yeah, well, we already made the graphic, man. We already made the graphic. So it's a little bit too late. So that's something that always happens all the time. It kind of drives me crazy. So with this, let's just say Peyton Manning at 16 million in 2010.

Now from 2010 to 2020, the salary cap has gone up to just under $200 million for this upcoming season. So we're just at, I don't know, 198.2 million, depending on what you look at. All right. Now the average annual salaries, the big numbers for quarterbacks going into this year are Russell Wilson, 35 million, big Ben right arm getting worked. He's apologized for everything. That's great. Good for him. Ben Roethlisberger still making money at $34 million. And then Aaron Rodgers is just under that, about $33.5 million.

All right? So we had a cap that didn't double, but the average annual salaries, at least the peak salaries for the quarterbacks at top, have more than doubled, right? If it were Peyton at 16, we should be at 32. We're even creeping up a little bit beyond that. So as I go through these projections, these are actually pretty modest. Again, basic, basic math. I did not want to put the time in, and I didn't want to bore you to death either.

So let's look at 2031. If Mahomes' deal goes through 2031, let's look at 2030 instead. Let's just make this simple. We'll go 10 years out, 10 years out. We could say, all right, well, it's gone up 80 million. So let's make the cap in 2030, 280 million. But I don't want to do that because that's way too low. I think 300 million is a cap in 2030 is too low. I do. I think that that's too low because we've actually seen the cap go up about 65 million from 2014. We're going to have a new TV deal in here. People can talk about the death or the live sports bubble. I don't believe that's happening anytime soon. It's certainly not happening in the next decade because really the value becomes not the total number, but the percentage of people still

watching your product. And when you're the NFL and you're still the best bet on television, the TV money is going to go up even if the total viewers have gone down from other eras. So if we put the salary cap at like 300 plus million, again, I think that's actually going to be low in 2030. Based on all this stuff, again, loose look at this whole deal, I think the top salaries at quarterback are going to be over 50 million, maybe 55 million in 2030. And the average annual salary for this new money for Mahomes is actually around 45 million. So whatever you've seen today, and I knew as soon as the contract came out, I was like, okay, relax. Let's see what happens here. Because the first deal was 400 million. And they're like, no, it's 500 million. No, it's 450 million. Okay. But it's actually 450 million over the 10 years. But the total value of

this brings it to 503 million. All right. I mean, a bunch of us could argue a bunch of different things, but I'm just giving you all the different angles of this. So the average annual salary, if you actually look at what Mahomes will be making, is $45 million a year, which I could argue is going to be $10 million lower than the highest average annual salary for the quarterback position in just 10 years. Now, maybe they redo this. Back years are fake in NFL contracts. We always know that. But if he's still balling and he's not going to demand reworking the contract although a

lot of times that's why ben's still making all this money you just go to your quarterback and say hey we're going to tweak this we're going to give you some more money i mean kirk cousins has been making all sorts of guaranteed money because he actually played it out and bet on himself long enough where it's not like kirk cousins is that good he just played the game the right way and then the team was kind of stuck with him because they had to keep figuring out ways to keep paying him to offset other stuff to fix their cap. And maybe Mahomes decided because of coronavirus, again, I don't think that's the case here, but you can at least bring it up. Did he look at this and go, hey, you know what? I'm going to take this. It's 450 million in new money. Who cares? I mean,

I could wait for 550 million. Who knows what's going to happen? I'm going to go ahead and do this. I imagine some of you listening right now have made decisions like that because of everything that's going on with the uncertainty. I remember one time doing one of the contracts at ESPN. This is really, really long time ago, entry-level Rosillo stuff where they were like, hey, man, the stock market's been getting killed this week. So I was like, right, because my 100 grand a year is going to really shut down the theme parks. Sorry. But that's actually somebody looked in my face and tried to explain to me because stocks were down that week that I probably wasn't going to get offered as much as I wanted, which again was laughable. And I just sat there and was like, okay, cool, cool. I don't think that that's the case. But then when you

look at some of the guaranteed money for all of this, and again, there's a difference between guaranteed at signing and practical guarantees. And I'll run through that again with you quickly. But if you look at guaranteed at signing, Mahomes is still behind Wentz, Wilson, Rogers, and Ryan. Now, practical guarantees are something entirely different because practical guarantees, let's put it this way. Von Miller years ago signed for a deal with the Broncos where he redid that big deal where the practical guarantees were around, I think, $78 million. Now, that wasn't guaranteed at signing, but when you looked at the structure of the contract, there was no way, even if he blew out both ACLs after 12 months,

they were going to cut him because it was still Vaughn Miller and he was young enough and the best edge guy in the NFL. So when you look at the way Mahomes will be paid in the new money, there's no version of this where they're, even if he couldn't play for like two years, you wouldn't go out, they're probably just going to go ahead and cut this guy. So Mahomes' practical guarantees are $14 and a half million, which puts him like 35 million ahead of the next guy. You know who the next guy is though? Jared Goff. Jared Goff's deal was 110 million in practical guarantees, but here's the kicker for only a four year extension. So Mahomes forget guaranteed at signing, which is still low the practical guarantees,

which is yes, a new record, but on a 10 year deal, actually even lower and the average annual salary that's going to come in under what guys are going to be making probably at the position of the new CBA and new TV money in maybe five to seven years. I think it's easier to make an argument than Mahomes, who's basically like the Golden State Warriors by himself. And yes, even though he just signed a contract that is more than eight NBA teams just sold for in the last decade. Shout out Kevin Clark on the ringer. I think Mahomes is underpaid. UFC 251 is coming up and there's no better place to bet the action than on FanDuel Sportsbook. FanDuel Sportsbook is America's number one sports betting

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Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. In West Virginia, visit www.1800gambler.net in Indiana call 1-800-9-WITH-IT or in Colorado call 1-800-522-4700 okay I met this guy a couple years ago out in Penn State were you there for let me just introduce him properly it's Quincy Avery works a lot of quarterbacks uh Deshaun Watson is definitely his guy. He's got a bunch of guys out there. QB Takeover. I was watching some of the videos. Were you at Penn State for Haskins?

Or were you just in the mix? No, no, no. I was there for Haskins. I was training him. I knew I was going to train him for the draft. So I wanted to go to one of their big games. And that was the biggest game on the schedule. So I'm like, all right, I'm there.

And it was a weird game, too, like Penn State looked like they had him. Dwayne wasn't great in the first half. And then you kind of saw like, oh, okay, this is what people were talking about when the younger kids wanted him to be the starter, which was always kind of a weird thing with Ohio State, considering what JT and all those guys have pulled off. But that was a really interesting game

because I think unless you were at it, you would forget that like Ohio State was in real trouble that first half. Yeah thought they were going I literally was like oh they're gonna lose in fact I left the game early so I'm like I gotta get out of here I'm not trying to talk to anybody or do any of that stuff so yeah it was but that was a pivotal moment in like his career if that game doesn't go the way it did he ends up probably playing another year at Ohio State and his college career goes a lot differently yeah well i want to get to haskins but let's talk about you first because

this has been a developing industry with quarterback coaches it's not new i mean it's been going on a long time but it feels to be more at the forefront now it almost feels mandatory how did you get started because like anything that's complicated and competitive, your start is probably as challenging as anybody. Yeah, I had an interesting kind of go. When I first wanted to get into coaching, I'm like, I don't have a job. So I'm like, all right, let me figure out a new coaching staff. That new coaching staff was UCLA. Get in my car, drive there.

And I just wait in the office. And Rick Neuheiser like begged him for three days. Did he know you? Didn't know me. He didn't know me from a can of paint. I was just like, yo, I want a job. And I kept, like, I was there for three days. Finally, he's like, yo, you can come back to my room.

Let's talk. And then he's like, all right, well, you can volunteer here. So I worked for free for Norm Chow and Neuheisel. So I started getting my roots in the quarterback space. And then after two years, I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore moved it later it was living out of my car facebook messaging every kid who looked like a quarterback um and one of the first guys i got was josh dobbs um and then my business just picked up from there now you were at morehouse though right but you knew you weren't going to play. Like you weren't going to play after Morehouse.

Like, were you, were you playing a ton there? Yeah, I was a starter. I was like all conference, you know, I was breaking some,

but I knew that I was a five, nine and a half, not so fast guy. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people aren't real with themselves. Like, I'm like, ah,

this isn't going to be the thing. Like I'm not, my dad coached in the league too. So I, I was, I knew a lot more about football than a lot of other guys, so I was realistic.

Because when I was listening to your story, and it's almost like two versions of cold calling. You're trying to figure out the college step after you're done. You know you're not going to play. Your dad's relationship at that point, though, wasn't going to help you at all. Well, look, I mean, I don't want to speak for you or anything like that, so I don't know to help you at all and uh well look i i mean i don't want

to speak for you or anything like that so i don't know what you're comfortable talking about i can i'm it's so cool we can talk about the whole deal all right can we talk about the part because like when i first was like oh wait his dad was a coach with the tampa bay bucks i go oh this is yeah you're like why didn't his dad get a job so my dad was coaching with the bucks coaching for tony dungy he went missing from a game just didn't show up to the game and everybody's like what's going on my dad was addicted to drugs um he had like a drug binge the weekend before a game in atlanta he missed the game and he lost his career and he was like a fast rising coach like he probably would have been a head

coach by the time i got done with college and i could have walked into a job um but he kind of blew that deal and i had to start from a scratch and that was a game where he brought you to the game too right to stay with him what happened so i ended up going to that game but then i ended up going with his wife so he left the hotel went to that deal I didn't see him again because I was with the wife and then he missed the game the the time that I got left in the hotel room which is a really interesting story take your time tell it it's crazy okay so me and my dad he lost his job in Tampa the following year um I'm like yo I want to go learn how to play quarterback my dad's leaving these camps we're gonna go on a tour we're gonna go to four different camps across the country so I fly

to it was Jacksonville we go to the first camp I'm doing really well he's my coach cool so camp is over we're like okay we got to go to the next stop. It was a Sunday. The next camp starts on a Thursday. So we get in the car, we go to a hotel room and my dad's like, all right, Q, I'll be right back. I'm about to go meet some friends. So I wake up in the morning. My dad's not there. I got 20 bucks in my pocket. I'm 16 years old and my dad doesn't come back for three days.

So I'm like, fuck. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like my dad dipped on, like, and I didn't want to I'm like fuck like you know I'm saying like my dad dipped on like and I didn't know did you know I had an idea wasn't sure but I knew that I wanted to keep going to football camp so I kept waiting it out waiting it out and he just never came back so it was uh that was that was crushing that's something it's like football is the one thing that like made me close with my dad and he left me while we were doing football so that was an interesting point like I almost like said no I'm done with this but it kind of brought me closer to it like I'm like all right this is

the one thing I know that I have like I can step back from everything else and do football and it made me feel real comfortable yeah I think too as a young person like you have these super impressionable moments and then you can almost be motivated by them in a way that's like beyond other people. And so, you know, you go to school, you're playing, you know, your dad's not gonna be able to help. This is what you want to do.

Did you sit with Newhouse? Were you showing him stuff on the board? Because I gotta imagine like somebody listening to this would be like, wait a minute, you can just show up to a Power 5 program and eventually they'll let you volunteer you had to have done something Quincy to impress him enough for him to even let you work there for free because that's even hard to get which I know sounds crazy to people yeah it's super hard to get so I talked to him a little bit about football but I started talking about people I knew so my

dad is really good friends with Tony Dungy. I knew some people who had worked for him. And he's like, this guy's pretty charismatic. We can have a conversation. I think he's a good guy. He knows a lot about football because I did know, like the level of knowledge I had was a coach's kid. Like I just knew a lot. So I was able to bring something to table and he knew that I was willing to work hard. Like if I'll get up there and go to the facility at six o'clock in the morning and sit on your couch and say, Hey, I'm here to get a job. And you look at me like, I'm crazy. You walk out like, yo, go home. That's not how this works. And I do that three days in a row. You're probably like, all right, this guy's willing to do some stuff that most people won't. And a lot of that comes back to me in that hotel room.

And I realized at that point, if this is as bad as things can get, life is not so bad. So I'm willing to do anything for the things I want. So you're out in the Pac-12, great campus, but you decided it's not. Why wasn't it for you at the time? So we're at UCLA, and we're trying to build a program. But I know a lot of guys aren't going to the nfl so i'm like yo i think we should create a program that's gonna help out the guys like let's get them a suit we can wear them to a road game write it off like it's ncaa allowable

or permissible like let's start figuring out how we can help these guys and they're like not new heisel but some guys in higher ups like i, I don't think that's, you know, really what we're here for. And at that point, I'm like, all right, I can make more of an impact on these guys. If I help out people at the most important position in all of sports, which is quarterback. And I'm watching literally 500, like QB sending tapes a week. I'm like, I know I can help kids. Let me go figure out where I can do that. All right. So now you're like cold calling like a broker, but you're doing it to kids in high

school and you're just watching any, like, are we talking huddle or just anybody that's posting any videos and you're just anybody you think has talent, you're cold calling them, asking them to hire you to be their QB coach. Worse than that. Um, you said high school, I'm looking through middle school rosters, elementary rosters through middle school rosters elementary rosters high school rosters and i literally looked through anybody with the number one through 19 so you might have been a quarterback you might not have and then i would try and cross cross reference it like maybe this is their parent so i'm sending thousands of messages a day to either a kid or a parent who has a name like the kid like it was the level of like thirst i had to train somebody and not just train them for any money but train them for free

uh it was ridiculous but what were you doing for money at this point because i know dilfer's talked about you was like i didn't even know how he paid for gas yeah i didn't really have much like i might make like 150 bucks a week like just doing an odd job like i'd cut some so i'd do i would do the randomest stuff like i was just like i just need enough money to literally survive survive okay so you hook up with dobbs and if it's not for hooking up with josh dobbs then maybe we're not even talking right now so what happened there so i hook up with josh dobbs and we literally start trading every day nonstop. He doesn't have any scholarship offers at this point.

And I kind of tricked him into working out with me. It wasn't like he didn't get that same message. I told him that I was having an elite camp because I didn't have any money. The only time that I could get in a facility is like 6 a.m. on a Saturday. But he had a baseball game. So he's like, oh, I can't make this elite camp you're having. Can we just get a workout in? I'm like, sure thing.

We get there. I had three cameras, two of which did not work. I just set them up like, yo, I'm going to trick him. Like, we're rolling. Like, I got this high-level setup. He gets out there. We're training. And he's like, all right, let's do it.

Like, I want you to be my guy. We go every day. He ends up picking up some scholarship offers and gets invited to the Elite 11, which is Trent Dilfer's baby. And we start rolling from there. What was it like first hooking up with Trent then? A little nerve wracking, but I knew Trent

because my dad had coached him in Tampa. He didn't know me. So I'm like screaming his name from across the field. He's like, yo, what do you want? I'm like, hey, just going to say what up? You know, my dad, he's like, okay, what's going on? But then at the end of the deal, Josh Dobbs walks me over and he's like, oh, you did a great work with Josh. Would would love to have you come out i don't have any money at the time so i was like i gotta figure out how to get to ohio to try and work at this camp i ended up driving up they ended up going to dinner after the first workout and i couldn't go i didn't have 20 bucks literally to get a meal after the first first workout

trent ended up paying for everybody but i had no idea so we just been rolling ever since all right now deshaun is is your guy you're with him now right um yeah yeah is he i don't know if there's mma training going on in the background just to the listeners right now that's cool that's cool we just i like the the live atmosphere of it all um but you met him in high school as well so take us back to that kind of intro where you're thinking like, maybe I'll just be one of these lifers. I'm not going to make any money to where now you're one of the premier guys. Yes, I met him in high school four weeks after I met Trent at the Elite 11

out in Oregon. And we clicked. He had been through a lot. Like, he's been through a lot of adversity. I've been through a lot of adversity, and I'm like, all right, like, let's just start training. Like, let's do what we can. And things slowly just started progressing from there.

More kids just wanted to work out with me. You train the best two quarterbacks in Georgia, Josh and Deshaun. Deshaun's going to win a national championship, and then guys just kind of start rolling in and then now I've built it up. So essentially if you're a top college quarterback, we've at least worked together. Like we've caught each other, we're working out, we're doing something. It's become really cool. Like today I'm in Arizona. I got Brandon Cooks right there to the left of me. He's over here doing box squats. Deshaun's in the back.

He's doing his speed work before we get on the field. And it's cool to have a relationship with all the top quarterbacks, even if I don't train them. Like, I shoot Mahomes a text yesterday when he signed his contract, and he responds right back. So all these guys, it's a community of quarterbacks that we've built, and it's really cool to be a part of it or create this thing did you and deshaun do a pre-celebration for his upcoming contract after that mahomes

number uh we're really excited about the guaranteed number i will say that that 140 is is the important part of the deal we got some some liquor on ice we've we've got some bottles of champagne they're going to be ready um and uh it happens, we'll have a nice little celebration. It took me a little bit longer with Deshaun than I even want to admit because he has these plays in him

that they're just different. I think that Saints game at the beginning of last year, and I don't even care about the outcome of it, but it's like, yeah, not many guys can do this what he's's doing and we know what the numbers are and the fact that he got his ass beat up too um very early on and now you know nuke isn't there what do you see in deshaun from this like he's a superstar at the position but what do you see from him like what are you able to do to coach him?

And the things that you notice would be like, here are all the other things that you're going to add to your game to be one of the top five guys for a long time. Yeah. I remembered you not being super high on him. I'd be so frustrated. I'm like, I want to tweet this guy.

I want to tweet this guy. You did though. And I don't know if it was Deshaun. You know what I did is I, the second year when he came back, I thought he was just inaccurate on some little dumb stuff and I couldn't figure out why he was I wasn't like by the way I wasn't trashy let's not let's not even go no I was like I'm not by the way I admit that

I'm not sure about pretty much any quarterback anymore by the way so um go ahead and that's fair so the thing that I think Deshaun's going to do to take his game to the next level is just be more consistent in a lot of the little plays. Like you'll see some of the misses, but a lot of times what happened was he would get there late or wasn't probably as prepared as he could have been in terms of making a decision. But it's really hard when you have a guy like Hopkins. Like you want to stay on that a lot longer than you should,

and then you end up late for everything else. So, yeah, losing one of the best receivers. It's also going to add a unique dynamic in terms of him being able to just go through his progressions, just go through his reads, and just being more disciplined in those sort of things. But me and him are working through a lot of the pre-snap operation just so we have a better idea of what defenses are doing to us. He's three years in, so he's had a lot of

reps against a lot of different teams, a lot of defenses. Now it's like, oh, when the Chiefs are going to rotate that safety, he's down in the box, but he still rotates and he's going to play cover two and they're going to rotate Tyron Matthew fromew from up high and a two safety look coming down in the hole like how are we prepared for that what are the tips and tricks that we're seeing so that when they do those things we're ultra locked in we know that this is too high look we're going to read left to right you know working through those progressions that's because i after the snap i don't think there's anybody better as far as dealing with pocket and it's not even just pocket awareness it's just what he can do in the pocket and keep things alive and then you're like oh he's done like no he's not um i don't know the position's really ever seen like maybe randall

cunningham type stuff but even that doesn't seem because even cunningham like his rushing numbers like a lot of guys i was going through it last week like they start to fall off a little bit and not that you want to sean running around for the rest of his career but there's the way he's able to keep plays alive i actually think he's at his own level right now a unique level of like balance like yeah uh flexibility it's a lot of things you don't like really see and then it's like oh i see him jump off this like everybody's doing boxing but he does things like one leg like the balance that he has the ability to maneuver and then be in awkward positions and then get back

into a really comfortable position so he can make a throw down the field that's a separating factor like if he didn't have those things that we know that Deshaun wouldn't be who he is so it's super hard for someone like me to work on those things so it's like how do you put this guy in the worst position possible over and over again and have him do something that looks relatively normal? I know you don't want to make this a big deal, but the trade for Hopkins, how do you and Deshaun, not just as your coach, but as his buddy,

how do you kind of work through that conversation being like, how the hell did this happen? It was super awkward awkward and i probably was out of line when it first happened like we're in the gym together it pops up on my phone and somebody's recording us i'm like yo look at this he's like what like slaps like he's the level of frustration that you have when something like that happens and um i think that it's very, very difficult to deal with that. And I'm just like a big brother in that instance. It's like, this is what happened. All right. It is what it is. Now, all we can think about is how do we move forward and how do you make the best situation possible? And how do you get on the phone with

your coaches so that you understand what they're doing to move forward so that they have a plan? And I think that they've made them really comfortable with the plan that they have and now it's like what do we do how do we keep pushing forward all right now there are some that think the whole qb coach the whole thing is bullshit right like people think the whole industry and everything be like ah whatever like you guys just pay these guys to do all this stuff and this little footwork drill you set up some cones the whole thing what do you to the people that are such detractors about the specific nature of what you're doing? I think that a lot of those people are really, really unaware of exactly what it is we're doing. But I also know that there's a lot of people in this industry who are really, really bad.

And they do that. Like, if I was just setting up cones for Deshaun to do his thing, then he shouldn't like you know I'm saying he shouldn't be paying me what he's paying me like I would be I would be foolish to to ask for that but it goes so much deeper than that and and also just the football side right coaches don't have time to spend working with their guys on fundamentals and that sounds ridiculous to say like these guys aren't working on fundamentals but in an NFL practice or a college practice you're working on scheme technique how do you beat the defense you're not working on making sure they're fine-tuned for the little things they have to do like where do they put their feet how they get their ankle in the right spot um so that alone I think is really really

important but the things that we do off the field are equally as important like every every game you and Deshaun are talking and working through it, and I just want him to feel comfortable. I got other guys like Dwayne Haskins. When the game's over, I'm the first person they call, and we start talking about how do we get better, how do you feel more comfortable. That alone would be really, really valuable.

Just someone you can get off the game with and they understand what you're going through. So those people are foolish when they say things like that we're gonna have more with quincy avery here but first as the original light beer miller light has always been there to bring people together in real life through miller time miller time is a moment for people to come together in real life to connect over a few beers but having miller time is tough when you can't be with your people i um did you go to a party this weekend, Kyle? I'm not going to blame you. No, sir.

I don't think I would tell you. You probably wouldn't say anything because you're in that demo. Young people don't give a... I'm not going to get on young people for that because I know myself and I know myself at 21. The idea that you go

back to college and social distance is the most laughable thing of all time. And if you're young, but I don't know, it just sucks. Like my dad is back home and he went to go get some food and it was just all young people everywhere with no masks on. And he was like, I couldn't even get out of the car. He was bummed out. So back to Miller Lite, though, he wasn't able to go in any place and grab himself a Miller Lite. So we're just, you know, staying on the phone, staying connected, FaceTime, a little Zoom. Zoom parties died down, though. Zoom is being used in the industry. Zoom parties, where people started

booking them every week, not happening, or maybe I'm just being left out. First few weeks, people were like, oh my God, I'm going to wear a crazy shirt. Miller Lite is the beer that makes Miller time possible. Miller Lite is the original light beer that tastes great and is less filling, which means it won't get in the way of enjoying time with your people. People that prefer Miller Lite, I look at it this way. I think it's a dad who doesn't know how to braid his daughter's hair that he's still going to try to braid it. He's going to help with her homework and get a few problems wrong. And then she's going to say, I got to see. And he's going to say, well, that's still a passing grade.

I think he's somebody that still struggles with the green bin and the blue bin for the recycling and waste, but he's not doing it intentionally. Where other people still struggle with that, where I have garbage in my recycling bin all the time on the street. I go, is this really that hard? But I don't think the Miller Lite guy does it maliciously. I think he just does it because he wants to make sure he's not going to litter

because I've always heard that about Miller Lite guys. I also think there's a really good chance that he's had cargo shorts so long that he's just ready to go whenever they're out and they're back in. He doesn't have to buy them again because he's already had them this entire time. Miller Lite, the original Lite beer. While you're home, enjoy a classic available for delivery today. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

Let's talk about Dwayne because he was in a really brutal spot because it was a split between coaching staff that's not there, who was then basically telling the media on the front office. I mean, that was really shitty for a kid coming in out of college. And it's like, hey, we're going to leak to the media that we don't want to take this guy because the front office wants to take him. And we know the numbers he put up at Ohio State, but Ohio State's just putting up massive numbers.

So where is Dwayne as he had to navigate through? I guess one thing, it's hard enough just to be a rookie QB in this league, but to go through what's against one thing it's hard enough just to be a rookie qb in this league but to go through that sucked the wayne went through so much more than someone should have to be put on their shoulders as a rookie quarterback like you go in there in the head coach like makes it known that he doesn't like you and makes it right as hard as possible for you to be the guy and then you got it's not like he went into a situation where it was like a quarterback who just wanted to help him be the guy like he didn't go to school and then they're I mean go to the Washington organization and then uh case and all those guys just say hey let's help make you the

starting quarterback it was he was kind of on his own right it's him the OC Kevin O'Connell he's trying to figure it out all while the head coach says a lot of nasty stuff about you, not only in the media, but also to the team. And he was trying to learn how to be a starting quarterback. The responsibility level for that is so much different than anything I think people can imagine. And you're doing that at 21 years old, leading a billion-dollar franchise. It's a lot to put on your shoulders.

And I'm so excited to see the way he's bounced back this offseason. Okay, convince me on Jalen Hurts, then. Convince you on Jalen Hurts? So Jalen Hurts does a lot of things that you don't see from a traditional quarterback. Now, as we're moving forward to a league where the quarterback has to be involved in the run game, you're going to put some people in some really difficult situations.

He makes it really hard for defenses to be sound, right? You can add a quarterback back in the run game, but the things he did in college, I don't think they said, Hey, you should draft this guy in the second round. I don't argue with anybody. He put up, he put up some gaudy numbers at Oklahoma, but he had an interesting opportunity to develop as a quarterback. The first couple of years, he had some really good quarterback coaches. Then you go to Oklahoma, nothing like what you do in the NFL, but it allows you to see the game. He made some great throws down the field and the

accuracy was up and down. But in terms of the level of improvement that he had from his last game in college through the whole draft process was as high as anybody I've ever seen. Literally anybody you've ever seen. You watch his performance at the combine, you look at him and say, oh, this guy's a freak. This guy can play quarterback at the NFL level. But then you have to compound that with all the things he does or did throughout his college career. You're like, if he can improve this much, he's as smart as he is. He works super hard. He's going to be a valuable asset. And drafting a quarterback like that in the second round when you're the Philadelphia Eagles makes sense because he can actually win you some games this year as a second round draft

there's not a lot a lot of other guys in any other position that could do that so the value makes sense I love what he did as far as you, I like that he had that moment at Alabama after losing his moment. And that was pretty storybook. But I also understood that, you know, when you're talking about Tua, that he just gave you more. He just gave you more than Jalen. And I was on the sideline. Look, I was on the side. I don't know if you were there.

Were you on the sideline for Tampa when they had the little pick play against Alabama? I'm just kidding. I don't know. I snuck out there. Yeah, but Jalen walked in for the game-winning touchdown as a freshman. I mean, he's one of the most powerful running quarterbacks that I've seen at that.

I'm not saying he's cam, but he put together. I'm sure he does all sorts of stuff in the weight room with his lower body and stuff that you're just probably not used to seeing. He was strong and stout as a really young kid, which is pretty rare when you're that young. And he handled himself. I knew people would love him in the, in the interviews because he handled himself like a total grownup with something that's like, are you serious? Like I'm sec offensive player of the year. I waltz in for the game winning touchdown. And then Deshaun

beats me on the other end and I'm losing my job my job. Not many people would... I wouldn't blame anybody for not handling that well. And even if it were a little polished, he just did a great job with it, man. Yeah, I'd have been in the transfer portal 10 minutes after I found out that I was no longer the starting quarterback. So the level of maturity he has and the way that he can connect with coaching staffs, like you go in and you talk to him, you're like, Oh, I'm talking to a grown man. Like he's also the son of a football coach. So he's, he's just built in a unique way that allows people to connect with him.

And then especially coaching staffs, your old crusty coach, like you'll still be able to be cool with Jalen in that way. So I understood like how he skyrocketed up. We were talking about fifth round when we started working out, and he shot up three rounds. He is special. Do you think Justin Fields goes one? Because you're working with him too, right?

Yeah, I got – Is he behind you right now? What's going on? You're looking around. I got some really good guys that i'm gonna be working with for the draft next year um so i think justin has the tools and capabilities to go with the number one pick um we'll see like if they push this season back and they're like yo we're not going to the spring like do these guys still play like yeah what do you think happens there i mean you know these guys are going to be going to the top of the draft i'm sure you know do you work with trevor too no i don't work with trevor

i talked to trevor a good bit but we don't we don't work together um but i know what i'll tell them i'll say it doesn't make sense for you to play this upcoming year i wouldn't do it uh it's not going to help you yeah i think a lot of guys are just going to bail on it man if it ends up being spring ball that's going to be crazy what did you think of my boy um daniel jeremiah coming on not that long ago and talking about trey lance yeah trey lance he had him he had him graded ahead of uh trevor and justin that was really interesting. I work with Trey Lance, too.

So it's like, you know, they both have the opportunity to go with the number one pick. Like, they're both going to push Trevor for that number one spot. So it's going to be a cool – seeing those guys work out together, it's going to be really cool. So, wait, if you work out with both of them, do they actually ask you, like, hey, who's better? Will Justin and Trey say which one, K. Quince, like who do you think is better between the two of us? No, no.

They wouldn't do it in that way. But they definitely, when you get two guys like that, they're going to measure themselves against each other. So, we were just together at the Elite 11. Those two, Jamie Newman and K.J. Costj costello so it's all three of them we're going through this pro day script and they're intently watching the others so they they know kind of what's going on they measure themselves up pretty well like i don't have to say anything yeah all right all right yeah i mean i know you're not gonna tell me right now i didn't i didn't think you were

gonna say like actually man like one of those dudes is really overrated. No, you can't do that. Like, part of it is just always being positive for your guys. I get that. All right. I have a couple more things, and we'll finish up here. If I was watching some of the different, like, defensive linemen tricks that people are trying to do against some of the Reed stuff now, like some different things where they're trying to take away like i remember and they're

good i i never played to understand the stuff where i remember standing next to stanford steve and we were at usc oregon at matt barkley this was a long time ago it's when barkley was a freshman and said i like it when it's loud it was the loudest place ever and it was like oregon absolutely rolled them and it was just all the defensive end. Like, I'm just waiting. I'm reading the defensive end. And that to you is as basic as it gets. But at the first time, I'm like, okay, this is what everybody's doing. And this is the whole play. And now they're changing around some of the reads, which I feel like is very temporary if it's not already figured out. So maybe I'm even behind that but i'm going to put it in like a baseball standings question if defenses were 10 games behind the offense probably a few years ago at its peak like where do you think the defense is now because it feels like maybe they've caught a couple games on the offense even though the scoring numbers are still out of control or maybe you disagree and think it's even a bigger gap so i'll leave leave it to you. In the college, we're talking about this in the college sense or the NFL sense? College.

Yeah, okay. So college, I'd still say they're about eight games behind. So they've caught a couple games. They've caught a couple games. But now what these guys are doing, since you're doing the things like having the end just crash down with the tackle and wash him. And now having that linebacker be the read guy. Now they start to stress him so much with all the slants coming right behind him. Right.

So we do the same zone read action and I'll have my individual cut receiver run a slant behind him. So now he's still going to be in a lot of conflict or they're going to start basing or outside blocking with this tackle. Right. So he's going to try and reach the end, and the tackle, I mean the guard, will work up and out to this linebacker, and now we're going to put this three technique in the bind, right? So they're just continuing to put different people in binds

and doing it unique ways. And defenses in college are going to stay behind as long as they keep letting these old linemen work down the field four yards without calling a legal. It's impossible. It's really impossible to cover if you have a tackle and he's working all the way up to the linebacker and then they still have the opportunity to throw. We can't stop.

Now, you're right, because even whatever the rule is supposed to be, it's just so loose with it. And then part of what i was watching too was a guy who showed a clip of a d tackle so the edge i don't even know if it was a linebacker if it was just you know depending on on the alignment and the jersey number i didn't catch the jersey number but the edge crushed the running back and the d tackle was the read on the court so they brought the d tackle all the way now first of all you're gonna have a d tackle that's able to built that way to even run him out there.

And this D-tackle was incredible. I forget who he was, but he could actually make the play. But that was the confusion of, oh, but then again, all right, fine, you did it. Now I know that you did it. And now I'm just going to, I'm going to know that you're the,

like, you're not going to do this for 80 plays where you're going to have your D-tackle come out and try to stop me in the open. Yeah, you just can't be consistent that way. It's, it's, yeah, the way that the college game is set up, like, where you're going to have your D tackle come out and try to stop me in the open. Yeah, you just can't be consistent that way.

It's, Jay, the way that the college game is set up, you can't align that way and you can't let that defensive tackle make plays like that. It's too stressful. And I think there's some college coaches who are getting really creative. I mean, Nick Saban makes it really, really hard with the way he does things. He's going to go with that two-eye safety look, and he's going to really make it look confusing. So what is that?

Can you expand on that a little bit? So what do you see Saban doing now? So he'll start us off in like a two-safety look, right? So you're not exactly sure where the read's going. He rolls things really, really late, and then it allows one of the safeties, and you're not sure exactly where it's coming from, to be this outside force defender, right?

So you do your zone read, but then you still have to deal with that conflict. So things like that, those are going to make it hard, but you also have to have the athletes who have the ability to do these things. And that's why it's like the Alabamas, Clemsons, Ohio States are going to keep, they're going to be the only people that are going to be able to play defense the way that you're going to have to play to stop these guys. Okay, final thoughts here. Jason Kidd, the way he saw the game, to me, you're born with that. You don't just

develop this unbelievable sense. So I want to ask you about different things with the quarterback, whether or not they're born or these are learned things. Just really, really special accuracy. Are you born with it or can you develop that? Born with it. You can improve it, but you're born with it.

Okay. What about pocket awareness? Where I look at your guy, Deshaun, who I think is as aware as anybody I've ever seen. And then I remember Jamarcus Russell, and I was kind of like, hey, those guys are allowed to tackle you, man. Just a heads up. Before you get the ball snapped to you, they are allowed to tackle you um you know there's just some guys that never seem to ever figure it out they never have that sense behind them or anything i think it's a developed skill like you have to develop it like things to sean does unique because he has that balance and all that but just the movement and being able to avoid and evade that's a that's a learned talent what about being a leader and you've played the position

so you know when you look at the other 10 guys whether or not they're believing in you or not like it's it's a bad feeling when those guys look at you and you're like i don't really know if this guy's gonna get it done um what is i i think some people there's almost nothing worse than a fake leader you know a guy who doesn't really say it and then says like i'm gonna i'm gonna say all the right things that i saw on instagram posts so what about that attribute i think that's you're born with that and i think that guys in the nfl have a tremendous ability to sniff out a fraud and those guys get revealed really really quickly um and they end up like having very short careers all right last one here

i've done all this work i've done these videos for it where I go, you know, stop saying every GM sucks because they just position itself, lends itself to absolute misses. 20 years of first round picks, as I pointed out, over 50% busts. And that was being nice. Do you push back on that? Do you think you would actually, as a GM, have a much better track record with first round quarterbacks because of the work you've put in? Undoubtedly. I think I would do better, but it's because I know them more as people than necessarily the stuff that

you see on tape. And that's so much more important. I've had an opportunity to see most of these, the guys coming up since like ninth and 10th grade. So like, I literally know them. I know how hard they work and I know how they work when everybody else isn't watching and they don't,

they're not being like that representative of themselves. So I've I've seen it. Uh, so I think that I've, I do a really good job and, um, I do some cool reports for a few different NFL teams because I think that they value, um, kind of how I see the position. So your track record, you think like when you meet a kid, when he's in ninth or 10th grade, you'll know, and I'm not expecting you to name anybody. If you're like, no, not going to happen with this guy because you see it not on the field, but everything else. Yeah. And I've done that with a few.

Yeah. I think that I'd be, I'm really good at saying like, this guy absolutely won't make it. Like the fringe guys is a lot more difficult, but some of the guys we say, oh, this guy should go in the first round. I think that there's strong reasons other than the football stuff that say that they shouldn't. Hey, man, I really appreciate

your time here. Again, you can follow him at Quincy underscore Avery, and it looks like maybe next time we see each other, we won't be arguing about something, all right? So, good stuff. Man, I appreciate you having me on. Two things I want to do here. As many of you know listen

to me for a long time there's certain things that happen on the internet where i go okay is that really that big of a deal um you know zion williamson a lot of this workout stuff that we'll see from guys maybe zion is ripped up that picture he looked really good i've also seen pictures of people and i think any of us would admit this where the right angle the wrong angle can ruin your whole world remember there was fat Jeter that one year, where it's just like one random picture of Jeter. And he looked like he put on 30 pounds of lard. It's like, nah, the wind was blowing a little bit. It puffed out his warmup jersey a little like Jesus, not all of a sudden fat and bloated and gross. And again, maybe Zion is ripped.

There's a picture of Rondo the other day shirt off getting shots up and people like rondo putting in that work you're like have you guys ever paid attention to rondo at all he is sinewy he is the definition of somebody who is always athletic and is always going to be in great shape it was always funny too like when the guy that you thought was always a little fat would take a shirt off and then it was like a weird six-pack like pierce was always thought to be a little doughy not the case mellow looked doughy at times wasn't really the case even when barkley took a shirt off during prime barkley years you're like this guy isn't even fat he's actually fatter when he's a younger kid than anybody else so the zion stuff is not

surprising but the reaction to it's probably a lot and maybe he is a completely transformed guy body wise but whenever we start hearing about this 25 pounds and 10 pounds of muscle and like, yeah, you just threw on 10 pounds of muscle in a couple of months, give me a break. Now, it always does seem to fall in line with things that we become fascinated with publicly, predictably so. It's kind of like when somebody's like, hey, have you ever seen Tim seen timber lake's house in montana you're like what is it is it awesome is it amazing because that's what i would expect if timber lake has an awesome mountain house the same way when i see a pro athlete work out and you're like yeah that guy that guy puts in a lot of work and he looks really good right now

um i'm all set with your zion bane comp that's the other thing that i don't understand what the blue checks do where you're like okay you saw the zion bane thing and so now you're just going to take the picture and then you're going to post it yourself rex chapman and i've seen it already a million times so i don't i don't really know what kind of content that we're creating here that's really all that remarkable but the biggest fascination which i've learned and i don't think anybody else has really talked about this, it is not the put them on skates moment where basically the offensive player is usually throwing the defensive player or the defensive player just sort of fell down, not because of some crossover, but we always do the post where it's like put them on skates. It is now route running videos of route running. We lose our minds.

Antonio Brown may play football again this year. I am not one that likes people to be forever punished employment-wise, no matter... I mean, look, there's some lines. I don't want to turn this into like, if OJ were a free agent, would you sign him right now? I don't really want to do that segment. I'm not interested in that. There are certain things that seem unforgivable, and maybe some would argue and say this person should never be allowed to work again. I am more along the lines of, you're a bad guy or you just do dumb stuff all the time, or if you're Josh Gordon, you get in trouble with drug use and somebody still wants to hire you and bring you back. I don't know that I'm okay with these employment death sentences that I think

some people want to have happen in the moment. So if Brown comes back and plays football, although some of the stuff that he's gone through in the last year or so, I'm not going to defend a lot of it. But if he wants to come back and somebody wants to go ahead and pay him to play football, I'm not going to do a podcast

saying how upset I am about it because I just sort of accept who he is. And what he is as a football player is one of the best route runners maybe in the game today, maybe the single best route runner at wide receiver. Or at least he was until all of this stuff that's been happening but then we see a video of him working out and he runs a post against nobody and he catches it and people are like man

antonio look at ab go like what do you think he was going to do fucking drop it he's one of the best nfl receivers of all time like what do you think was going to happen and the other thing that happens now and ab is kind of like this weird instagram model but instead of breast he posts his routes and everybody gets really excited about it but what happens with some of these other dudes in the routes which i've noticed which no one ever brings up is it'll show some kid who has amazing footwork. And I'm not knocking the kid's footwork. I'm not knocking his break, his hips, the in and out, and all of that stuff.

But the DB has no chance in these hype videos. Zero. There's no safety help. The quarterback and the receiver already know where the ball's going for the most part. It's already predetermined. There's no defensive back other than an adult beating up on kids and a Pop Warner team where you'd be able to stop any of these passes, but we post them all the time and go, Hey, look at that route. Look at that footwork. Look at those hands, man. He's just working that

DB, but you know how hard it is to stand out there one-on-one and defend a receiver with no help whatsoever, especially a receiver that's as athletic as some of these guys that we see posted. So the next route thing that you see, where again, it probably looks pretty cool, understand, I don't know that anybody's going to break up any of those passes to begin with, unless the quarterback screws it up. Okay, we're going to finish this off with a life advice. Again, if you want to email us, lifeadvicequestions, life, life advice are at gmail.com. That's on the World Wide Web.

In case you guys are confused. Okay. I don't have a. Some of you guys, you include your names and then I pre-read these and I think, all right, you know, we got a decent sized audience here, but we'll just go with it. Mike wants to break up with a friend. He goes, hey, Ryan, I've been friends with two guys since high school we've kept up even amidst uh going separate colleges graduating about a year ago all right so these guys are all young 22 23 unless like one of you some weird au hoops players like 25 at a college or a swedish hockey player we had that at our

school like a couple swedes were like 22 year old freshmen and we're like i don't need to compete with this stuff like you're already from sweden you're on the hockey team and you're an adult like this sucks all right so back to the email with one of the guys i become even better friends with uh now considering my best friend the other how the other guy however all caps sucks he's uptight difficult to get along with annoyingly particular over the smallest shit. Oh, man. And I just don't like being around him.

The good thing is he lives a couple hours away, so we don't hang out that much and be able to use the whole COVID thing to get out of doing stuff together. However, he wants to meet up for a trip back where he grew up. I really don't want to do this, but I feel like I've turned down enough trips

that I don't have an option. Do I just bite the bullet and deal with this trip? It's about a 12 hour drive round trip. Although for Midwest people, that's nothing. You guys will just drive 10 hours one way and not even think about it. Or do I lay my cards down and just say, we're done? Ooh, that's a tough one. Guys breaking up with guys. I actually think guys have an easier time breaking up with women than they do guys. Look, the college thing is weird because you're still sort of in that bubble and you can't really break up with a buddy in college because chances are he's still close to somebody else

in your crew, depending on how big your crew is. We had a lot of guys and guys kind of like floated in and out, like little electron sharing. But it was all essentially the same crew and there'd be overlaps and some some mutations of it. But for the most part, like you weren't just going to diss somebody entirely. Like the other person was going to have to do something sort of on their own to be ostracized that much. I don't like the guys that have to have everything be on their terms.

I've had a couple of friends like that. It's really, really annoying. I am, for the most part, I can be intense about some things and specific about some things. But more often than not, I'm pretty laid back and I don't really want. I don't I'm not going to tell you what you should be doing because I don't want you to tell me what I should be doing. That's kind of my deal, right? Although I would say for relationships, that probably hasn't worked out great. But I mean, it sounds like you already want to tell this guy you don't ever want to hang out with him.

I think the real debate you have here, Mike, is that is there anything redeemable here? Do you think at any point you would be friends with this guy again? Because if you do think you can be friends with this guy again, I don't know that at 22 you want to dump another guy to his face. When you break up with a woman, it's more likely you're not going to get back together. It sounds like you don't have any interest in ever being this guy's friend again. So maybe go ahead and do it. I don't think I'd want to drive 12 hours to go hang out with somebody that I don't want to hang out with. And maybe you need to explain that to him. I'm rambling a bit here because I just don't know. Like, does he have any potential to change? Is he the youngest of the group? Is he the only child that likes fancy jeans? Is he somebody who, you know, is never going to change because we had one buddy who was really, really rich. He was the richest guy out of the group

and everything always kind of had to be on his terms. You had to be worried about whether or not he was having a good time because if he wasn't having a good time, he wouldn't want to do anything and it sucked. Eventually, I ended up not becoming friends with that guy anymore, but we didn't have to have some big talk about it everybody just sort of knew like yeah those guys

don't like each other so if it's about avoiding a 12-hour trip for somebody you think you're going to hang out with again this conversation is impossible i'm not doing a very good job with this one it's just hard to call another guy up and be like hey i don't want to be your friend anymore have you ever done that kyle no but isn't this guy out of college? Isn't it college over, right? College, they just graduated a year. This is what happens. You just never talk to him again.

And then if, and I guess like in a, in a Machiavellian way, if it does serve you to be friends with him, you can just be like, hey, I don't know what happened. You guys want to, you want to hang out again? Just lie? You can just, this is what happens.

There's like a group of 20 guys and there's like five of them that, you know, I can meet up with in New York City. Whatever. This is what happens. Just like a group of 20 guys and there's like five of them that you know i can meet up with in new york city whatever this is what happens just fucking float away into the mist right yeah it really sounds like you don't want to hang out with this guy again so all you have to do is just go i don't want to hang out right now it's nothing against you i just don't feel like doing 12 hours in the car don't worry about it not a big deal maybe we'll see each other in chicago maybe we'll see each other at the five year um and that'll happen yeah i mean that's a good point that's actually the best point it took forever for me to call you in

but guys are just gonna float out of the deal if you're not in the same city post-college just because that's the way life works man so i think kyle helped you more than i did on that one thank you kyle yeah you're close to the demo you're close to the demo on that one, but no, it's true. Like you're going to worry about hanging out with some guy that you probably never going to see anyway. And then that's the other thing is like, if you have a,

especially this is male and female, but it's, it's just always a little lamer when it's male is like when you have a guy friend who does the guilt trip thing, like, Oh, I've never want to hang out with me anymore. Huh?

Oh my God. We had a guy who did that when we were in college it was it was my roommate we were a year behind these other guys and then so it's just the way it works like you know your age and who you're living with so we were still supposed to we still had to live in the dorm so my roommate was my roommate and he was close with somebody else that lived off campus and then i don't know we were at a party or something and the older guy like pulled me aside he was all shit-faced he's like hey make sure you say to your friend he's an asshole i was like what do you mean my roommate my best friend at school he's like yeah he's like he never wants to hang out anymore i'm like well because you're like an adult like with an off-campus apartment and a girlfriend and a dog and like cars like you know

like you do you want to come up to the dorms no so like what what and then i had to like go tell the guy i was like yeah i think you just got dumped by one of our buddies who's older um but my roommate at the time he was pretty selfish guy though so he wasn't going to do anything else all right so that's uh relive in the 90s with ryan and we will we get some cool stuff coming up this week a show creator show runner of one of my favorite new shows high town and um we could be having a hall of fame defensive lineman and i have this other new concept that uh we're going to be unveiling i hope next week but it's one of those deals kyle where you and i are going to have to sit down and do an unbelievable, it's a little bit like recruiting stories. It's not recruiting stories, but it's along the lines of the same concept. And I'm really excited about it. It's

yeah. High concept, a lot of taping, a lot of hours being put into it. So anyway, I hope everybody had a great fourth. I appreciate you guys being patient with us being off for that week. And we will be back in a couple of days. So please subscribe, rate, and review the Ryan Russo Podcast on the Ringer Network. Thank you.