The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Max Kellerman on the Nets, Boxing, and the Art of the Take. Plus, NBA Story Lines and History Lessons.

Episode Date: May 18, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on some story lines heading into the NBA playoffs, including on the Jazz, Suns, Nets, and Bucks (1:30). Then Ryen is joined by ESPN's Max Kellerman to discuss the Brooklyn Nets, the art of ESPN's 'First Take,' the current state of boxing, another Logan Paul exhibition match, and more (19:00). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (57:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Max Kellerman Producer: Kyle Crichton Producer: Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And this is why I'll take Harden over Steph. I can't believe those words are coming out of my mouth. But I see new evidence now. Yeah, I'll take Harden over Steph. The Harden that I saw this year. By the way, there was no guarantee he and Kyrie were going to play that way together. We were doing so well. That was Max Kellerman saying more stuff I disagree with.

Really enjoyed his visit. Going to check him out. And some NBA stuff to get you ready for the playoffs in the open. And life advice. I want to run through some storylines and some history lessons here to open today's podcast or get ready for the play-in games this week and the opening of the playoffs. So Utah finishes up the season with the best record in the NBA. That's right. The Utah Jazz finished with the best record in the NBA.

So you're like, ah, whatever. Weird season. You said it all year long. Yes, I have. But there's still somebody that has to have the best record in the NBA. So you're like, ah, whatever, weird season. You said it all year long. Yes, I have. But there's still somebody that has to have the best record, and they have it. Now, there doesn't seem to be anybody picking Utah to even come out of the West, never mind win a title.

But another number that you should pay attention to here is that they're 17th all-time in point differential. 17th all-time this season. That's like a significant number. Because when you look at those all-time teams on point differential, they're usually some of the best teams that we've ever seen in this game now you can immediately counter that with last year and say yeah wasn't milwaukee 12th and point differential and they

lost in five games in the second round you would be correct to point that out but look that's more of an anomaly than it is now okay go ahead brucillo pick utah go ahead pick them i used to do that to van pell all the time on the radio show where there'd be some team that was good that wasn't getting enough credit no one was picking and he would say, they don't get enough credit. They don't get enough credit. And I would just say, hey, pick them then. And then one time he did and they lost whoever it was like super early. He was like, I can't believe I got bullied

into picking them when I didn't want to pick them. I just want to give them more credit. But if you're not picking Utah, are you not picking them because of something basketball related? Because basketball related, there's a million things I like about this team. I love the way they shoot. I love how many options they have offensively. And even though Mitchell can be a little, it's my time to shine at the end of some of these games,

at least he has that in him as opposed to some apprehensive stuff we can see from other scorers. So, you know, it's still early enough in Mitchell's career. Despite some of those concerns, I'd rather go to war with a guy like that than not. And we know that Gobert, depending on the matchup though, is still somebody that anchors you and has enough size to deal with. I like their size options with Utah better than Phoenix's.

You've seen this league go small, but then it kind of got big again. And it definitely got big again in the West, and it's also something that teams in the East are going to have to deal with with somebody like MB. But if this team, which this franchise is true, they haven't been to the Western Conference Finals since 2007. All right. And now you're sitting there with the best record, the one seed and a chance, a real chance to come out of the West and contend for a title.

Because I think we do have six or seven title contenders. Maybe we don't. Maybe we only have one. But it really feels like there's six or seven. That should be something. And I don't think it is ever something anymore. It's, all right, cool, we're the one seed, but now what? And it's like, well, no, you're the one seed.

You work years and years to put yourself in a position to have a place at the table, to have a a chance to compete for a title and that's what this front office and organization has done gone from hey i like some of the pieces yeah they're pretty good maybe a tough first round matchup you know who knows could get to a second round maybe even that but now they're just better they're better and i don't think anybody really seems to want to acknowledge it and look are you picking against them because of basketball reasons are you picking against it because you're just like yeah whatever it's new it's jazz I just don't buy it. I'm not going to go ahead and sit here and pick them, but I do think that those two numbers are worth pointing out.

All right, I have Chris Paul pre-worry. Won Western Conference Finals in his career, and that one was sort of great, but also disastrous that they went up against that amazing Warriors team. He gets the leg injury, and they miss a million threes. Maybe it wouldn't have been remembered as a Chris Paul Western Conference Finals, and it certainly would have been held

the same standard, despite the fact that he played so well that year, and they won 65 games. But it's Harden's team, much like the Clippers were Paul's team. So that's also part of it. And when you look at who they beat in Durant, Durant never felt like it was his team, even though I think most people would say throughout those years, Durant was a better player, even though the numbers would tell you Curry made more of an impact. All right. So before

I get into a Warriors rant here, we all know that everybody's had their bad moments, no matter who you are in the playoffs. It's like the first 46 minutes don't count towards your legacy. But Chris Paul, a little mellowish in that when you go through mellows, first round losses and all those playoff losses, he always lost to a team that was better than him, I think, except for one time. And then there was another time where the seating, they were higher, but the record was tied. I think when they lost to Utah in the first round during those times,

when you go by every single season for Chris Paul's exits, a lot of the times you're like, wait, who was hurt again in that series? And that's the problem. It's always these guys that are hurt. Now, Phoenix has been healthy almost all year long. I mean, everybody's missed a couple of players here or there, but for them, it's their matchup. So yes, if Paul loses in the first round years from now, we'll go, wait, wasn't he in the MVP conversation?

He was almost as a nod to his career work, the way somebody gets an Oscar after they're like, this guy hasn't got one in 30 years. Let's just give it to him. Paul isn't going to win the MVP. He's going to get consideration because of the respect for him. But I just don't know, years removed, if people will say, oh, he lost in the first round or they're going to go. Remember the Lakers? They were in the play-in game and then that was the worst possible matchup for him. Although I still intend to just to go ahead and pick Phoenix to come out of the West, just do something a little different. When I said before that there were seven contenders, but maybe there's only one,

that's because I'm talking about the Brooklyn Nets. The Brooklyn Nets have played eight games with Harden, Durant, and Kyrie. And I was reading some of Nash's comments and they lost Joe Harris for a couple of games. And he said, you know, I don't think we've had the big three guys plus Joe Harris playing with either of our centers with Claxton and Blake. So there's a good chance the closing group that we'll see in big playoff moments from the Brooklyn Nets have never played any combined regular season minutes. I'm pretty sure I'm on that one. Is there any precedent for this? Because the big three together, when they did play, we knew the offensive numbers were off the charts. It was 119 per 100 possessions. But the real numbers that I would look at when they got that first run together,

when they'd have some fourth quarters where those guys were closing, it was some absurd number that was like 130 points per 100 possessions. I mean, it doesn't happen. And they were doing. And that's what should perhaps scare the rest of the league. Because I was actually talking to somebody with the Jazz yesterday, and we were kind of going over some of the teams, and it was just kind of fun.

And then I got off the phone and started thinking about it. Like, yeah, maybe Utah should feel great about this. There is no prime Golden State. There is no 72-win Chicago Bulls. But maybe do we actually have one of those teams in Brooklyn? The weird thing being,

we've just never seen them play together. They exist. They're there. It's real now, but we've just never seen them play together. They exist. They're there. It's real now. But we've just never seen them play, which is kind of an odd concept that maybe we have one of these all-time great teams, but we just don't know what to do with it because they didn't play together this year. Again, is there a precedent for this? The 2001 Lakers, I looked this up, their top three players

played 10 regular season games together and then won a title. Now, it depends on who you think the top three are of any title winning team. I'm sure there's other stuff historically you could go through and dig, but I did find this yesterday. I don't know how many years we're going back here, but Shaq, Kobe, and their third best player that year, Derek Fisher, played 10 regular season games together. So let's go down and look at some of the big threes. Now, we've been spoiled with the big three part of it over the last decade. It started with LeBron's Heat team. Then it transitioned into Golden State.

I think there was a little Cleveland in there. That San Antonio team that won one of two titles. I don't think it's fair to say, hey, they should have won both. Yes, but if they win the first one, are they as motivated to win the second one? Human nature plays a factor in this, so we give them the one. Their third best player is actually pretty incredible statistically

if you look at some of that stuff. But the poster, like when you see the poster of the three stars on a basketball team, we've really never had a better run than these last 10 years. Yes, the Lakers and Celtics of the 80s are up there,

and you could argue maybe even better, but that's like two teams over one stretch. You could even go back to the 60s Celtics, loaded with Hall of Famers, different time there. That Lakers team that won finally in 71-72, loaded team as well. But I think we could all agree that when you have Chris Bosh as the third best player or Klay Thompson as the third best player or Kevin Love as the third best player and Love is a step down from those other two guys that I've talked about, like we got really spoiled. Even with the Lakers last year, we're going, OK, they're good.

But who's their third guy? Who's their third guy? And then you realize, you know what? There's not another team out there that has the third guy that you're competing with. It's like a certain Hall of Famer. And we needed to get over it. And we didn't. And then they won. And we're like, okay, I guess we're over it now, but we have it again in Brooklyn. And this one is absurd. And even though, you know, I'm going to ask Max Kellerman about

this and I think he likes this Brooklyn version better than the golden state version. I would disagree. But if we go back and look at some of the big threes that we've had, you know, the third best player on that Celtics team in 2008 was Ray Allen. Really good, but I don't know that it's what you have in Brooklyn. The Lakers' third best player after Kobe and Powell,

it's probably Lamar Odom or Bynum. Some may say Metta World Peace. Statistically, that wasn't really the case, but now we're seeing the theme here, a significant drop-off. Dallas, give me a break. I mean, Dallas had Dirk, and then it's a collection

of Jason, Terry, Sean, Marion, Karan, Butler, a 37-year-old Jason kid. Miami's 2006 team, Shaq, Wade, we get it, but the third best player, Haslam, I know I think Antoine Walker scored the third most points per game for that team. We got Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen. And then after that, it's probably Kukoc, Rodman, although a Hall of Famer, a different kind of player. Offensively, somebody you could ignore completely in today's game. That's a drop-off. I mean, look at 1994 Houston.

Hakeem Olajuwon, after him, it's Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Robert Ory. I mean, that's a weird group here. So even though it doesn't feel like on paper we have one of these all-time great teams, it's because we didn't get to see it. We just might have it. Final one, and that is the timeline of a superstar. I saw a headline the other day that said,

now or never for Milwaukee. Maybe it feels that way. But does it mean if Milwaukee loses in the first round that 26-year-old Giannis gets over? Of course not. It's not over. Maybe Milwaukee loses this year in the playoffs in a disappointing. Maybe they lose in the first round. Maybe they lose in the second round. Maybe they lose next year in the playoffs and it's disappointing. Then maybe when Giannis is 30, he wins a title. The idea is now or never. I know it's a great headline. It's just not accurate. It's just not.

But that's what we start to do with our superstars. We fall in love with you, and then we find reasons to no longer be in love. And I mean, when you think it's happening to Giannis, which I predicted, not because I'm smart. It's just because of what we do when it's new and it's exciting. And you're thinking, I've never seen this before. And in Giannis' case, it definitely was something new and it's happening with another player as well.

But we'll go through it. I don't know if Paul George is the right comp because like Luka is going to become Giannis as Giannis becomes the other really good player that we're like, hey, if you're an MVP and you're one of the best players, aren't you supposed to carry your team at least to like an NBA finals? And it's not like it's a bad team around Giannis, and he's doing this by himself. This team has put up together some really nice regular seasons the last couple of years. But the reason I bring up Luka is that Luka coming off a last year's playoff run in a first round loss to the Clippers. But remember

these numbers through that six game series, 42, seven and seven, 28, eight and eight. He had a triple double in game three. He wasn't very good. He shot it bad. 13-10-10. Then he comes back from a disastrous Game 3, scores 43 with 17 boards and 13 assists, then goes for 22-8-4. They got crushed in Game 5 by 43 points. He comes back in Game 6, 38-9-9. So even though Luka lost, he was still so young two years in that you're like, okay, this is amazing.

He's the preseason favorite to be the MVP, but Dallas feels like as a franchise, kind of in the same spot that they were last year, despite changing some of the personnel around him. So if Luka were to get bounced in the first round, then you know, what's going to happen is go, wait, I thought this Luka guy was the shit. He can't even get out of the first round. Luka becomes Giannis. Giannis becomes, again, whoever else it is. And we're going to do it to Zion because we do it to guys. Now, did we do this to guys when we were younger? Kind of, but not in the same way. Because if we go through history, some of the top players of previous generations, let's run through some resumes real quick.

Isaiah Thomas, it took him year six to get to his first Eastern Conference finals. Dea Thomas, it took him year six to get to his first Eastern Conference finals. Michael Jordan, we know that it was seven years to reach an NBA finals, and he did well once he got there. Michael Jordan was one in nine in his first 10 playoff games. I think he was five and 15 in his first 20. One in nine, five and 15. Shaq, eight years to get a title, because he did have that NBA finals there with Orlando.

Eight years to get a title because he did have that NBA Finals there with Orlando. Karl Malone, one Western Conference Finals appearance in his first eight seasons. Barkley, nine seasons for his only NBA Finals the first year that he went over to Phoenix. So we didn't write these players off back then. Sure, we could get frustrated in each individual fan base, the selfishness of thinking it's unique to you that you think you're the only one experiencing pain when all these other guys can't get past the hump because there's some other really good team out there that's in your way. I think we were a little easier about it. Even though there's pressure, the rings part of today makes you kind of think that if you don't do anything in the playoffs, that everything else you're doing is borderline worthless, which is totally unfair.

Maybe worthless is harsh. But here's two really good examples to close this up. Carl Anthony Towns was on the GM survey going back to 2017-18. He was selected by 29% of the GMs for NBA.com. If you were to build your franchise around any player in the NBA, who would you pick? Carl Anthony Towns won with 29% of the vote, beating Giannis, beating LeBron, beating Kawhi, and beating Kevin Durant. Now, it was starting your franchise. Again, this is only three years ago, so you can understand why LeBron would be lower. Durant's injury history, Kawhi's injury

history, although picking him over Giannis seems absurd. The only thing that's more absurd is that the year before, the GM selected Carl Anthony Towns with 48% of the vote. That means half the NBA general managers said, give me that guy over every other player in the NBA. Give me him. And when I watch him, and I know the Minnesota franchise has had all sorts of changeover and turmoil and all that, I go, how many guys would I pick today before I would pick him? It also proves how hard the job is, not that everybody's an idiot. But think of this as we close. Kevin Garnett, when you think of him inducted into the Hall of Fame, you think of his career and you think of

the things you saw him do in Boston, you'd say ultimate winner, right? Is that fair? I mean, doesn't it feel that way? I mean, ultimate winner versus a Bill Russell resume or a Jordan resume, that's not the same thing. But when you think of him night in and night out and the culture change that he brings to your franchise, you'd be like, that's the kind of guy I want in my building every single night. I think most of us would agree that's a fair assessment of who Kevin Garnett is, the ultimate winner, except he was the ultimate loser

before he ever even got to Boston. Think of this. Kevin Garnett lost seven straight first round playoff series. Seven straight. He didn't get out of the first round. He was the ultimate loser. And this did come up. I mean, that was the criticism. Yep. Great physically and all that kind of stuff. It doesn't do this. Not assertive enough offensively. And actually he still never was as assertive as I thought he should have been offensively. But his story completely changed, even though I don't know that he necessarily changed as a player. And it kind of gets to my final point,

is that I'll have just a rotating list in my head of players who I think are great players, who I think are winners. But I think there are winners that don't win and losers that do sometimes. Max Kellerman, first take. Max Kellerman, radio show on ESPN. And I would say this. Max doesn't know this. We don't have, I mean, I guess we're cool.

We're not like we're talking that much. I enjoy Max's show as much as any on the radio lineup. I find myself in the car more for it. And I think the great thing too is that I don't always we're not like we're talking that much. I enjoy Max's show as much as any on the radio lineup. I find myself in the car more for it. Um, and I think the great thing too, is that I don't always agree with it, which is not the point of any of this stuff is that you want to listen, you want to listen to the guy. And when I listen to you now, we're kind of removed from it just as, as a consumer. I'm like, you know what?

I like your show better than everybody else's. And I don't mean that as a slight, I don't mean as a slight towards anybody else's, but you're the one where I go, you know, I just know Max is on it no matter what, even if, even if the topic or itself, or just the, the take, there've been times I'm like, what the hell are you talking about? Um, I just appreciate the job that you do solo radio two hours. We all know how hard it is. And I, and I think you're terrific at it. That's a, that's a big compliment. You and I, it's funny because you and I like have passed each other in the industry for a bunch of years. Hey Ryan, what's up? And always like friendly, but really haven't had any like substantive talks

off camera or microphone. And we've probably been up for some of the same radio gigs. I imagine at different times. I think that is an enormous compliment because I think you do great work. Well, I appreciate it. All right. So let's start with, let's get into it. Then you have been on the nets thing big time. I know you love the offensive efficiency. We know what they are capable of. Are you so married to the Nets rolling through it that you have to kind of position it that you can't see any other outcome,

especially out of the East? I can't. I mean, well, like there's always a what if, you know, if injury becomes an issue or if the Nets don't have, what was crazy about the Nets is nets is they hardened shows up in my line that I've used so much that Kendrick Perkins mimics me when I use it fat and out of shape, looking like a hot mess, a 30 point triple double like, and in wins in wins. Right. And then it was him and KD, no Kyrie, him and Kyrie, no KD,

just him. Doesn't matter winning four out of every five games. But the offense, as great as it looked early, the defense was like historically bad, like the worst ever. But within, I don't know, three weeks, they were like an okay defense. And that's all they have to be is okay. So I guess if they haven't given themselves enough runway right now to get the defense to like, okay, instead of historically bad, maybe someone has a chance, but Ryan, even then they're going to score 130 points a night. You got to figure out how you're going to come up with your buck 30 to beat them. And I, you know, like, I don't see it. I think, I think if they're all healthy, they're going to romp to a title. And that's where I think all of us

that do this for a living, it's hard for me to counter any of that. Because it's absurd they have the record they have, considering how they didn't have those three guys, I think, for even 10 games during the regular season. Eight. Eight, right. So Harden

comes back. He looks even more out of shape than when they started the season in Houston. It doesn't matter. The Kyrie part of it, which I don't love, where he's in and out of it. And then you look at the final stat line and you go, this is ridiculous. And KD, who's just trying to find a way, but even in the limited time that he's played. do it to be dismissive of Brooklyn. And I know that even picking Philadelphia may seem, may seem stupid as we go through and agree on the Nets part of it. But do you think if the Nets were to win a title, it would change, have a lasting impact in the way people look at a regular season that they're already a little bit over where you start to think like, if you just have the right guys, you don't even need to play together. Like doesn't it like hurt the concept of everything we grew up with? I don't, I don't think, I think everyone recognizes this is a special thing. And by the way,

I like Philadelphia a lot. Like who's the best defensive player in basketball, Ben Simmons, unless it's Embiid. Cause who's right there with go bear anybody else, unless it's stable, who's probably going to be the best defensive player in the league in like a year or two.

Right. And, and if Simmons could shoot, he doesn't even need to shoot from distance. Get a 12-footer, a little floater, like do something where you're not in the, right? Because they'll give him out to 15 feet. But so like, I like Philadelphia a whole lot. This is special situation with the Nets. And let me tell you what I've come to realize. People see KD, he was the first guy in, and they think Warriors. This is like a big three, unlike even the Warriors,

because at least against the Warriors, like you really couldn't do anything once KD joined that team. But at least make Klay Thompson put the ball on the floor and make decisions with it. Like he can do that. That's not what he's out there for, right? But he's their third best offensive player. Make him do that.

You're going to do that to Kyrie Irving? Good luck. Right? There's never been a collection of three guys with who can all get their own shots from anywhere at historically elite levels and hit them from anywhere at historically elite levels and are also playing unselfishly. So everyone's thoughts, I think, go to like, this is like, unlike anything since the Warriors. But Ryan, it's worse than that for the league. What was the one team? So it wasn't the Cavs.

Cavs had LeBron and Kyrie and Kevin Love. And going into those series, it was like, it's done for LeBron because he can't compete. This was a 73 win team. It took a miracle to beat. They added KD and basically didn't subtract anything. Of course you can't beat that team.

LeBron had no shot, even crewed up. Who did? James Harden and the Warriors. Mike D'Antoni, James Harden, and the Houston Rockets hosted a game seven against the fully loaded KD, you know, Steph, everybody, Warriors that no one should have competed with. Didn't have Chris Paul. At one point missed 27 consecutive three-pointers and lost by single digits. So this whole thing like D'Antoni can't win a championship, actually, D'Antoni's brand of let's play only the most efficient offensive basketball ever seen, even if it's not fan friendly all the time, got them way closer to beating a team that was far more talented

than them. They should never have gotten that close. D'Antoni had his point guard, his muse. It was hardened and playing his system. They came way closer than they ought to have come to winning the whole thing. D'Antoni still has hardened playing point guard. It's really D'Antoni running his old offensive system.

Only now he has KD and Kyrie. This is not the warriors. This is the D'Antoni hardened rockets with KD, Kyrie. And is not the Warriors. This is the D'Antoni Harden Rockets with KD, Kyrie, and by the way, Joe Harris, who's like the best three-point shooter in the world. Who's going to stop? If they can, with almost nothing, almost beat the Warriors, who's going to stop them when you give them basically the Warriors? A couple things there. I think the historic numbers, the per 100 that you've cited throughout the year, and you're right, the track that Brooklyn was on is going to be the all-time highest,

but that's after Dallas just had the highest ever. And there's no way any of us would ever look back at the Dallas Mavericks from last year and be like, because the stat says that, that that's the best offense that we've ever seen because we have a rising tide thing that's happening in the NBA. We're at the highest offensive efficiency league-wide by almost two points this year off of last year. So contextualize for the, I agree. So once you contextualize it, yeah.

So I would rather have Steph than Harden. I would rather have the KD from Golden State than this KD, but that's only because we've only had limited versions of this one, but I think it's a safe bet. If you want to take Kyrie over Klay because of the handle and all that stuff, that's fine. But I think the part that you just hit on, even though I put Steph ahead of this one, but I think it's a safe bet. If you want to take Kyrie over Clay because the handle and all that stuff, that's fine. But I think the part that you just hit on, even though I put Steph ahead of Joe Harris, is just the best shooter in the world. Oh, yes. Absolutely. By the way, you're right. I can't argue that. I know. I know. Steph Curry's the greatest shooter of all time, of course. Yeah.

But to have the fourth shooter, because what happened in that Houston series, you're absolutely right. Not only was it D'Antoni's offense, it was their defensive approach to say, hey, we're going to guard three guys because actually Golden State doesn't have enough shooting. You're putting non-scoring threats out there with Draymond, who the league started to figure out. Look, he's not even looking at the rim sometimes. The Joe Harris part of it really screws you up because now if you're playing four out, I'm with you. I think it's scary as hell. I think I'd pick Philadelphia to be maybe different, but also because I was hoping that it actually meant something

to kind of have your group for five months together, that it actually still was supposed to mean something. Because I think Brooklyn winning it is going to lead to a league that already has kind of had about their top 20 players punt on most of the regular season. Not most of the regular season, but almost 25%. Who can do that, Ryan?

Like you, they can do that because, and this is why I'll take Harden over Steph. I can't believe those words are coming out of my mouth, but I see new evidence now. Yeah. I'll take Harden over Steph. The Harden that I saw this year,

by the way, there was no guarantee he and Kyrie were doing that way together. We're doing so well. There's no guarantee he and Kyrie were going to play that way together. In fact, when it was KD and Kyrie was like, they're not going to get out of the East. Then they got Harden. I said, I don't know that that even makes them better because they were, I guess what happened was once they got the injury, right? Then they're like between Dinwiddie, Laverne,

everybody they had, they thinned out. So really now they had to get more top heavy, I think. And I think that worked, but I wasn't sure like Clyde Frazier and Earl Monroe, there was no guarantee. Like the whole thing was, there's only one ball. Are they going to figure this out? And I was watching to see, will Harden and Kyrie figure this out? Not only did they figure it out and kind of right away, but I've never seen Harden play like that. I thought that was LeBron James level orchestration of an offense. But the difference between Harden and LeBron is whoever could orchestrate an offense pass like that with that kind of court vision and also hit a shot from anywhere because LeBron can shoot, but he's not a pure, he's not like really a shooter. Harden really is not like Steph. No one is,

but I've, but Harden's size strength, he's better on defense than Steph, and the way he orchestrated that offense. Ryan, I legitimately, when I was watching him for the first time ever, thought, is he the best player in basketball? The postseason will determine that. But you've given him weapons now where he doesn't need to score 50 points for his team to win. He can score 18, 20, 23 points and use his weapons in a way that he's never had the chance to before. Harden's terrific. I'm not denying that, but you lost me when you said Steph. You would take Harden over Steph. In the defensive part of it, Harden gets so much credit for these two post-defensive possessions a game that the announcers always freak out about. They're

like, oh, he's so good in the post. He's the 90th percentile and all this different stuff. You're like, it happens like twice. Steph is far more locked into team concept. Steph was the front guy for a team during that Warriors run where I think they were the fourth. They were four times the best defense. And I think the fifth year they had slipped off a little. This year, Steph's defensive numbers haven't been as good because everything is on him in a way that he hasn't had before offensively. But the playoff resume, like I don't think you can pick Harden over Steph after what happened when Steph went crazy in the second half and Harden's out. Harden has so many playoff flameouts that that's where my love for Harden,

although some would argue their love for Harden, because I didn't like the whole Houston thing. I went on a crazy rant about it. Harden just has too many games. There's like five or six of them in the playoffs. You're like, what the hell? Everybody has some bad playoff games, but Harden has a lot of bad ones for me to go. No, that's the guy. So you trust that Harden

more than this Steph, or is it just about this year, Max? No, a lot of this is predictive. And plenty of my predictions are wrong. I thought, look, Kawhi looked amazing in the finals. He's going to do it again. LeBron's hurt. He's 35. Part of it's your forecasting, right? I got that wrong. And so I'm forecasting now.

It's true. I think 100%, I think I've been yelling that as loud as anyone. Like, I call Harden a choker. I think he's straight up. Like, when your level, Peyton Manning once upon a time was a choker, right? When your level falls from, oh, my God, this might be the best we've ever seen to much, much less than that in the highest leverage games, that affects your position negatively big time.

I will point out that Steph, well, he was hurt. He was this, he was that. Greatest half-court offense ever. Fate of the universe on the line, game seven, fourth quarter at home, four minutes and 22 seconds. Ryan, they didn't score a single point. Not a single point. Like that's maybe, that's up there with the greatest choke jobs

in the history of American team sports, Golden State. That was Steph's Golden State. He's throwing the ball out of bounds. He looks scared to shoot. He can't hit. Four minutes and 22 seconds. You can't muster a point in the last fourth quarter at home game seven to have the greatest record ever and win the championship.

So it's not like Steph hasn't come up small, too. Now, Toronto, he was amazing. They lost the series, but they had no chance. And he shot great. But I've also questioned the version of Steph we get when we want it most. Now, to be fair, he's been better than Harden. I agree with you on the record that Harden's choke jobs in the playoffs should put Steph above him. I am predicting. I see every year Harden gets a little better under pressure, a little better under pressure, and I'm predicting that given his role on this team, his team will romp to the finals and he will be the team MVP. He'll be the MVP of the finals. I think at the end of this season, our perception of Harden will have changed.

It always changes once you win. All the things that you did bad somehow go away, and then when you don't win, all the things you did well don't count. I also think there's something about Steph's movement that changes the way a defense freaks out where Harden, when he would decide, hey, I'm not in the play, I'm going to stand here,

and people in Houston try to argue with spacing spacing but guys that played with him were like this sucks because now everybody just helps off of him i don't want to do 30 minutes on just this even though this is really good but i think it leads into perfectly like some of the step stuff because i think people look at you if they don't know you and they go okay what's the deal you know it's first take i've done the show a couple times you go in there you prep you start hashing out trying to figure out which side of the argument you're on and it is a classic debate show and when you are I always kind of say like married to something where it's like maybe there's a ton of evidence and this thing's like turning around like we're all getting shit wrong all the time like we get that's part of

the deal but for you where is there a line where you'll be like, okay, I'm going to go this way and I believe it now, but I might not. And then you may not believe it, but you feel like you can't deviate from it. I think the Iguodala Curry shot one is the one you catch the most heat for, but there's a, I'll defend that right now. You still believe you still want Iguodala taking the last shot. New evidence comes out and you have to adjust your opinion. So Steph till that point, Ryan, I new evidence comes out, and you have to adjust your opinion. Okay, okay. So Steph, till that point, Ryan, I don't care what anyone said, he was scared in the biggest moments.

How does the greatest shooter ever, we all acknowledge it, consistently not hit the biggest shot in the finals, is consistently not the same player that he normally, oh, he's getting more defensive attention. What, Michael Jordan didn't? Like, a lot of guys get more defensive attention. And I wasn't, and I even prefaced it by saying,

I'm not talking about creating the shot. I realized Steph can go make the shot. Iguodala needs to get the ball just right. But open shot, fate of the universe on the line. I trust the Iguodala, not nearly, not even a good shooter, but there are, look, who would you rather have had up in the clutch back in the day? Luis Soho or Alex Rodriguez?

Talk to real Yankees fans, they'll tell you. Soho. Soho, under pressure, you trust him. A-Rod had something going on inside. Hated him. Hated him. He'd be at second base with his helmet, looking back at the dugout, a big spot.

I hated Luis Soho. Right, right. So there are some guys you trust in big situations different. Now, would I ever compare Soho to A-Rod? Of course not. I'm saying they're at the plate. Two strikes, World Series on the line. There was a time where real Yankees fans would have told you. Forget Soho. Scott Brocious. They would have rather seen Brocious. Scott Brocious, 98. Okay. Couldn't believe it. That's what I'm saying about Iggy. Iguodala, open shot.

So he doesn't have to create it. It's not he has the ball. But you're looking at the basket, dude. You should be able to hit this, right? But Martians got the death beam pointed at Earth. In other words, Ryan, it's game seven. 4-22 left, fourth quarter. You're trying to be the greatest team that ever was.

73 wins. I saw Steph unable to do it. Iggy doesn't care. He's got ice water. Now, that doesn't mean because Steph was once like that, he'll always be like that. It does not mean that. You guys can get comfortable in a situation, given enough reps, and come through. And I think I trust Steph in that situation now. But at the time I said it, not only do I believe it, I was right. I was right to argue it still back from, you know, Steph back then. Here's what I like about you though, is that there's always, I think some people in the debate business have a nastiness to them where I'll be like, okay, we can all guess who I'd be talking about in general. Not even one specific name, but I think there's a nastiness where it's like,

you're so married to something and maybe you're just doing this reaction. I always thought with you with the Iguodala thing and some of the other times where I'll be like, he's got this wry smile. Like there's this little smile coming from Max where I go, am I, am I a hundred percent in on this one? Cause I understand your point of Steph in game seven. He sucked. He threw it out of bounds in the corner. You know, look, he tried to shoot a three over Kevin Love. It wasn't that he couldn't take him, which he's even admitted after the fact.

He missed that shot too, and that was a big spot. But I think it's incredibly dismissive of all the other little things, even though I would defer to the part about Harden with his physical nature and be able to drive with his big ass and hips and shoulders, that there's a, there's a physical part of his drives where, you know, that was a limitation that Steph would have in some of those playoff moments.

But I think the overall commentary part of it is where, uh, somebody for me who did the job. Sometimes I'm like, I'm not sure, like, I'm not sure. And you just sold me.

Well, you didn't sell me. I didn't change my mind on it, but I get like, I'm not sure. Like, I'm not sure. And you just sold me. Well, you didn't sell me. I didn't change my mind on it, but I get like, you've convinced me, you believe it. You've convinced me, you believe it. Right. You jogged a few things in my head just then. First of all, um, what we're doing in the TV business as opposed to a podcast or a radio show, which is unpacking is the opposite. This is synthesis. So do you guys really disagree on everything? No, we agree on most things, but the work in the show, in the meetings and everything is finding out where the disagreement lies. Now in this business, as you know, the hot take, you know, if you have 10 hot takes a day, you're insane because most of what we think intuitively is correct and agree

upon is correct. Right. But sometimes, I mean But sometimes, a minority of the time, the counterintuitive position is correct. And if you've done real thinking, you come to a counterintuitive conclusion. Now, if you're in that position and there are a hundred people telling you you're wrong and you're the only one saying you're right, you should reconsider. You should think carefully about what you think. But if you've thought it through and said, nope, I still believe it, then you have to lead with that. And in TV, that's the hot take, right? Like you're not starting with your analysis. You're starting with your headline. Here's what I think. And people see a counterintuitive headline and they go, this person's crazy. Now they want to watch. And then

you have about 90 seconds to go through your thinking. And either you'll convince people at that point or you won't. Now there are arguments where I'm like, so I really have a point to make. Like today, is this the greatest Hall of Fame class ever? Kobe, Duncan, and Garnett? Yeah. Yeah. But I think there's a case to be made, and I want to make the case for Jordan, Robinson, and Stockton. Because if the greatest player of all time is being inducted, that's a big thing in your favor. And then also, I just feel like Robinson and Stockton have become underrated. And I want to point that out. I want to use this time to point that out. So when you say like, Rye, smile, I'm kind of admitting the whole time, I don't know if I can win this argument. But this is a point I want to make. So like David Robinson, we just forgot

because Olajuwon did him. Olajuwon did Shaq. Olajuwon did Ewing. Olajuwon did everybody. But David Robinson was a great player. And so was Stockton, who's kind of getting slept on nowadays. But Stockton was a great player. So I just want to point out, hey, these two dudes are underrated. And Jordan was in that class. Let's not be so quick to dismiss them. That's an example of, am I really arguing that it's the best one? Maybe not. I just think an argument can be made. business specific to your show in just a very short amount of time i like how you said and then i'll make my headline and make my point for 90 seconds i would say on first take make my headline and then have seven minutes to make my point um because the monologues can go uh uh the brady one is the one you get all the shit for and i'll admit i used to argue with canel about it all the time back we're still doing radio together because he's, why can't he play until he's 45?

And it just didn't make any sense. We're like, look, just because you're determined and you're going to be pliable, this is ridiculous. And now we're heading towards he's going to be 44 entering the season. So here's where I think that you know how the business works. And I'm going to tell the people that are watching it, it's not whether or not you like a Max or you like a Stephen A. It's you heard him say something the previous week. We get the result over the weekend. We get the result in a playoff game during the week. And then you go, now I want to see what that guy said, especially if he was wrong. So when you were on your Brady's going off a cliff phase and they

beat the Chargers in a playoff game. And I was like, I'm going to see what Max has to say. So I tune in. And I'm not like a religious watcher. I got stuff going on. You know, I'm usually prepping for everything that I'm doing. And you were like, Brady's throws were wide open. And I was like, he is not even close to nudging. It is far too early for Max to concede anything yet.

He was like, no, those were easy throws. The 21 and 27 were like, they were, and I was, and I was sitting at home laughing and I wasn't mad. And I think other people get mad. I think, you know, clearly my experience with it is a little bit more unique being in the building for a decade and a half, but those are the times where I'm like, okay, you're not, you just know you can't give up yet because it was too strong. And you've admitted since then, like, Hey, look, I was wrong because the guys defied logic when it comes to longevity. Well, I think if the history of the planet Earth

does not provide you even a single example of someone doing something and then someone appears to be doing it, you have to ask yourself, are they really doing it? Or is there something amiss? I mean, are they really doing it or is there something amiss? I mean, are they actually in decline? And I did notice, for example, two years ago with Brady, I thought he was missing receivers every way you could. Now, people would point out these are new receivers and they're not very good. Right. Like so he's not. And also his throws were going shorter and and was not just not as sharp as three years ago.

I'm not talking about last year. He was very good last year at Tampa. So one way to interpret that is, well, Brady still can put mustard on a throw, even if his underlying analytical numbers are not great. He can still put mustard on a throw. It's like, yeah, but an older guy can muscle the ball. But when he does, he's going to have a little less control of where it's going. So I don't doubt he can still throw a fastball, but can he put it where

he wants it every time? It's his brain operation. And the reason I said that was, except for Warren Moon, what Hall of Fame quarterback was ever worth a damn past the age of 41? So he would be shattering the record. And the circumstantial evidence and people seem just were turned out to be right. And I was wrong was yeah, but the Patriots don't have offensive players who can get open and they're new. Right. And so Brady is just, that's why he's looking worse. I'm like, yeah, right. But every other quarterback ever experienced the same thing if they got to be that age, but with Brady, there's special reasons why this is happening to him. And then he went out and proved everyone

else right and me wrong. I thought it was a long shot. It was. Like, if you assume, in a way, and I meant this, I started going like, I'm the only one who really gets to congratulate him now. If you assume someone's going to do something that's kind of miraculous, congratulate him now. If you assume someone's going to do something that's kind of miraculous, it just, I assume he's going to do it. Then are you like, are you really the thing? Miraculous, right? Right. Are you really respecting the miracle? Or, you know, no one thought Muhammad Ali would beat George Foreman. That's why it's like, Oh my God, Ali beat George Foreman. You know, no one thought LeBron was going to beat the 73-win Warriors. That's why he slayed the monster. And I certainly thought, and I can't believe most people didn't also think like me,

Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, they all look like they, every quarterback looked like, oh my God, he's better than he's ever been. He can do this till he's 50 and then right off the cliff. But no, Brady was going to be the exception. And not just by one year, by three, four years, he's going to be the exception and not just by one year, by three four years, he's going to be like 30% older than everyone else when he's still great, he was, and then you got to

give it up, new evidence, you got to change your opinion perfect segue in the last few minutes we have here, I just want to follow up on, you know, as you mentioned boxing there, your long history with it, you once, one of the first things you said where I was like, man, that is really good. It was a long, long time ago.

It may have been on fight night on the Friday night fights thing with you and Brian Kenney, which is, you know, kind of the start of your career. And I'd like to do the longer career thing another time with you, but you were like, fighting's everyone's favorite sport. You just don't admit it.

And I was like, wait, and you go, if two people fight, you stop and you watch. I was like, that's brilliant. Did you come up with that on your own? Because I loved it. And I was like, wait, if two people fight, you stop and you watch. I was like, that's brilliant. Did you come up with that on your own? Because I loved it. I thought experiment. What I would say is if you go to a street corner experiment, I call it thought experiment. You come to a corner. First, I start like boxing's your favorite sport. You can say combat sports now. I'll give you 60 seconds. I'll prove it to you. No, it's not. It's football. Okay. Come to a street corner, flag football game. Over here, there's a stickball game. Over here, there's a guy putting a golf ball or a pickup game basketball.

And over here, two guys are having a fist fight. Where's the crowd? Fist fight. If there are 100 people in the street corner, how many people are watching anything but the fight? None. They're all watching the fist fight, right? So why isn't boxing more popular? Redo the thought experiment. Barry Bonds is hitting off a Roger Clemens over here. You know, Peyton Manning's throwing the ball to whoever, you know, Marvin Harrison over there, over here is what, and on the fourth corner, two no-names, two guys just fighting, you never heard. Still some people are watching the fight. That's how compelling it is. But now the crowd is watching other stuff because the way our brain interprets the world and understand things is by storytelling. We put everything into stories. In order for you to care about something,

you need to know the characters. You need to care about them, be invested in them. You need to know what they want, what their goal is, what makes them tick. You need to know the obstacle in their path. How big is it? How daunting to overcome, right? And then you're interested and invested. And since boxing has done a very bad job explaining to people who these characters are, as people don't know the characters, they just don't care as much. But intrinsically, boxing is the most compelling sport. That was the whole thought experiment. compelling sport. That was, that was the, that was the whole thought experiment. You talked to Logan Paul recently. Um, and it was good. It was, I would suggest to people that interview people that are younger to check that out because you're good at interrupting the guest

when they're going down the road that you don't want them to go down. And you're also with radio on a time crunch. Um, he seemed to be respectful of you and he doesn't seem to respect, be respectful of many people. Where are you with this topic? And just take it wherever you want to go because people are both offended. And others are like, Hey, this is,

this is what it is. We love fighting. We love entertaining. So let's start doing different things like this. I can kind of see all the points of it. I'm all, I feel like I'm still undecided and I haven't bought any of the fights either.

I would say I was a boxing person who was not defensive about MMA, right? And a lot of boxers, oh, it's this MMA, UFC. Hold on. Did you box growing up, by the way? What's that? Did you box growing up? Is that where this comes from? My dad took me to the gym.

I was getting in fights in school at the PAL, and back then, Hell's Kitchen. And then Duku Kim was killed by Ray Mancini and my mother and grandmother said, no more boxing. So where I could, I snuck off to the gym, but not serious. Um, and then when I turned 18, I could go full time. Right. So I used to go down to Gleason's and by then the same kids who were eight years old, now they're 18 and they've been boxing for 10 years and I hadn't been. But at any rate, so I wasn't defensive about MMA. Why? It's combat sports. If anything, boxing should use it as an introduction to combat sports. Hey, young audience, the boxing has failed to capture. Maybe you like us too. You like combat sports.

I think similarly, boxing and MMA and the reaction that people have to Jake and Logan Paul is unnecessarily defensive. And the reason I say that is, what about all the fighters coming up and they're getting skipped over? No, connect with an audience. Jake Paul and Logan Paul have connected with an audience that they bring to the fights. As everyone said, you don't need to buy it. Like, Ryan, you don't buy it. So don't buy it. But other people are interested in it. You know what Jamal Charlo says, who's a real good fighter. I want to fight on the undercard.

I love what they're doing. And where I draw the line, I would still say, hey, if people want to buy it, buy it. But the reason I respect them is they train hard and do their best. That's all you can ask of anyone. Like that's what we try to teach our kids, right? Do your best, put the work and do your best. If they were disrespecting the sport,

when people say that, what does that mean? It means making a big event, kind of half-assing it in training, showing up out of shape. That's not what they're doing. They're making big events, and they're training seriously. And they come in, no excuses, and do the best they can. And people criticize them because their opponent's not in shape. Nate Robinson didn't take it seriously. Well, Nate, take it seriously. And they come in, no excuses, and do the best they can. And people criticize them because their opponent's not in shape. Nate Robinson didn't take it seriously. Well, Nate, take it seriously. It's not on them to make you train. It's on them to train themselves. Well, why isn't he fighting someone better? They just started doing this. So they're fighting MMA fighters because they realize we need to make a big event with someone who's credible. People can already see if you're just an athlete and you're not fighting, you ain't going to beat

us. So at least Jake has shown that. So we need to fight another fighter. But to fight another fighter with a name recognition to make a big event, it can't be a boxer because that guy would kill us, right? Like they've been doing it their whole lives. They've been doing it for two years, two and a half years. So they look to MMA. Let's find notable fighters in MMA, maybe who don't have great striking skills. Let's make an event. And as they go on, they should be gradually increasing the level of competition. But Ryan, I find what they're doing to be serious and respectful. And as much smack as they talk, they're showing a lot of humility about it. Like it takes humility to

respect what you're doing. Take it seriously. Give it your best as a professional. And in the ring, that's what I see from them. So I respect it. As far as them cutting the line, welcome to life. All right. People cut the line. Jake, as you pointed out, it's the better boxer of the two. That's what I saw. And I don't not, you know, I don't not buy them to prove some point. It would just be, you know, I'm usually watching so much NBA. I don't know if I don't not you know I don't not buy them to prove some point it would just be you know I'm usually watching so much NBA I don't know if I have this you know and a friend might text me like hey I got the fight but you're right like everybody thought Nate Robinson was gonna smoke him because that's what people wanted and Nate got knocked out and then it was like oh well Nate wasn't ready which was a joke it was a joke as soon as Nate lost it was like the complete

social media part of this turned to 180 that it was like, I can't wait to see him kick Jake's ass to this wasn't fair. And then he beats Ben, who's an MMA guy, but he just popped him. Ben wasn't ready or whatever. But give me, in your final thought here, give me kind of a basketball analogy. If this boxer is LeBron James, or maybe not even LeBron James, if this boxer is Bradley Beal, what is Jake Paul as a boxer in relation to what an NBA or maybe are we talking G League here? Like what's the gap? Paul is a rapper who was always into basketball, but hadn't played on in an organized way in years and years and years. So he's Jake Hall, right?? Like J. Cole or someone, right? And is like, you know what?

I love basketball. I'm trying to, and starts organizing one-on-ones that they're putting on pay-per-view, right? And now has to find the right level where people believe both sides have a chance to win. And importantly, they know the characters. You're invested to go back to this thought experiment. You know Jake Paul and Logan Paul.

You know what's at stake for them. And then now let's find the right obstacle, another character who the public knows and believes has chances to win, to make a big event. That's J. Cole doing versus against, you know, but in basketball. He's like, hey, I want to play one-on-one. What basketball player can I pick who maybe hasn't played in a decade He's like, hey, I want to play one-on-one. What basketball player can I pick who maybe hasn't played in a decade or maybe was big in college

but never made it in the pros that I can make a big event one-on-one with where people believe both sides have a chance to win? And right, Jay Cole is a great example. That was terrific. Make sure you check out Max's radio show 2-4 Eastern every day on espn radio and of course on first take with steven a as well uh let's do this again sometime max

how did we go all these years that we never professionally did i guess i really think it's because in at espn we were up for the same radio jobs and stuff so so as wait guy like we just kind of never really crossed paths there There's probably some of that. We're about the same age, both middle-aged white guys. So you're looking around going, all right, am I competing with this guy, the New York Boston thing maybe? I mean, I figured maybe you didn't like me, but then you called me about something and I was like, oh, that was cool.

It was about the Chris Paul rumor. I hooked you up too. Remember, you called me to be like, Ryan Russillo said on his podcast, he thinks Chris Paul's getting traded from the rocket. So you called me and you didn't, you weren't like, Hey, what are your sources?

I was like, look, trust me on this. He's going to get traded. And you were like, cool. I always liked your work, but Ryan,

you know how, especially when you're young and insecure. Oh yeah. You hate everybody else. I'm better than everybody. This guy sucks. That guy sucks. But you're not even really paying attention to anyone but yourself.

No. I always like your work and it's a pleasure talking to you. I'd love to know, was there something that I got that you were up for? Because that doesn't seem possible. No, I just remember. No, no. Yeah, I think maybe. But just being there are a bunch of local radio guys. And I've always done TV, and I've done well on TV.

I really love radio. I love doing this. You can actually talk about stuff and, and you can't hide on radio. Like who you are is going to come out. And so, and so I think there are a bunch of local guys doing radio. And when one big slot opens up, you recognize I'm going to be someone they consider. And these two or three other guys are going to be someone that they consider so you were on my radar for that reason like i know they're going to consider rusillo i know they're going to consider this guy they'll consider me you know and and so so for that reason i'm like i don't remember the yeah i don't remember much i don't i don't think i think it's probably just walking around the building at espn and knowing we're all kind of competing at least that's the way i but you know when you're on first take like I knew that wasn't going to be something that I was going to be doing and I was kind of happy doing the radio thing but it was kind of funny because then they were like oh you're having Kellerman on like aren't you a little pissed about the lineup

and I was like I don't I don't even think about it anymore like I'm still a huge sports fan and I listen to shows how I listen to them and I found myself over the last you know however long it's it's been with the new lineup that I was like, I feel like I'm always going back to Max's show. So I appreciate it. It's just, you get to a certain age and it's like, well, you know, you, you like what you like, you don't like what you don't like. And all the petty stuff is like, not that it ever was petty stuff, but like that stuff just means much less. Cause as you get older, I think you get more secure. So, so i don't not not that i ever felt any animus we never talked to each other i mean we we never talked to each other

so it was like then it gets to an awkward point of where i guess i'm not talking to this guy ever right but maybe but maybe like you we wouldn't seek each other out for info no no i don't think it's like a deer abby or what's it called i don't know't know what it is. But it doesn't feel like a professional pie. It sounds like we're on a phone call now somehow. Yeah, so we'll spare everybody. I know you have to prep for the show. Thanks again. I appreciate it.

Good talking. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South For south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids i am liquid so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's

required life advice rr at gmail.com all right we got some we get some people that want to party kyle so we get a we get a few emails here about some people okay all right first one i actually really enjoyed this one except at the same time i was kind of like why do you need to ask me what to do here this one seems fairly obvious 27 64 240 hey oh thick do you like to describe yourself as thick kyle definitely not i would say no what do you weigh i'm like 250 what's the height 63 yeah kyle's a big dude yeah what wait so rudy does this blow your mind did you not i hadn't i if i was to get you're 250 first i could see 63 I mean I've never met you in person so this is like kind of shocking to me but I didn't know you had that kind of mass oh oh yeah there

is there damn dude is that like a lifting regimen like what's I mean definitely not is like a legit fighting deal yeah I would be afraid of you yeah I mean if if 6'3", 250 is Matt and Chew, it's still 6'3", 250. Wait, what are you, Ryan? Like just under 6'2", 230. Damn, you wouldn't even be in Kyle's weight class. Respect. No. Remember, this is pre-Saruti, but we had a moment where we were like, wait, Kyle, do you think you could kick my ass? And there was like an awkward pause.

And I felt like he just had to say no. I just loved it i love the tension kyle thoughts no uh i'll still say no yeah well do either you fight i mean i know ron you hit a bag every once in a while right yeah i mean i i screwed around with it when i was younger than had another later phase with uh with um you know working out with it but like as far as just just picking fights randomly for long stretches of my life no no and honestly like high school everybody could kick my ass college i just was a tad surly but no one fought anybody really i mean random punch there

and there 20s you know i started started seeing what i could do a little bit more when you'd be breaking up fights and bars and i was like oh you know get some things going on here but like an actual tough guy tough guy yeah I'd get smoked surprisingly or maybe not surprisingly at all I was always the smaller dude that would talk a lot of shit because I had bigger friends which a few times would get me in trouble

I never actually got into a fight but there were times where my never got into a fight no but there are times where my friends would be like dude like we're not going to be around. Stop doing this. Because I would get out of who pops in me, and I would just go up to people and be like, oh, sick Ohio State shirt, dude, loser.

Are you serious? Exactly. Because I just hated Ohio State at the time. I just didn't like Ohio State growing up. I remember this. And the kid was on the cheerleading team, was at University of Delaware. Younger Sruti talked a ton of shit,

which is really annoying. I'm like, look back at that and go, that was a dumb decision. But I had bigger friends. It was fine. Jeez. That might be my least favorite Cerruti stat. I know.

I know. It's a bummer. You don't still do that, right? No, no, no. I stopped caring about just about everything at this point. I don't argue anymore. We're good to go.

I don't know where this went. I just think the audience right now, there's a lot of people going, wait, Kyle's 6'3", 250? Stunning. He's a big dude. He's a big dude. All right.

I guess we just go back to this whole deal. Kyle, you had to have been fighting, though. Didn't we cover this once before in the Fight Podcast? You were definitely fighting. I was definitely not looking for fights, but when you don't have to do too much to get out of them you're like thinking like man it really has been a while and this guy's a fucking asshole and like let's just see where this goes you know what i mean i was never looking for but you know people go looking for fights and you kind of gauge whether you know you think you could

win this and you know but it's been i remember a while one night like the weird thing about bartending in a college town but it was Vermont, is like 30 minutes in any direction, you felt like you were in a colder version of the South. Like Vermont, you know, shout out to Cadillacs losing to the Terps. I almost sent Van Pelt a joke text about the Terps because it was Maryland UVM, UVM's first time. Maryland was way better. They were so much faster.

I don't know how in the whitest sport ever, Vermont still looks slower and whiter, but it happened. So anyway, shout out to Vermont. Great step for the program. But I was going to send Van Pelt sort of a text. I don't know if you guys remember this, but when Purdue played Vermont in the tournament, they had me on Sports Center to talk. And I go, you guys know, I'm not the Catamount insider here. I watch mostly NBA games or whatever. They're like, no, it'll be fun. We're going to do this thing. So I was just like, Purdue has no idea what's coming for them. And of course, Purdue fans took it totally seriously. And I just kind of joked the idea when you go to a school like Vermont and you don't have this tradition of just the

athletic part of it where you get to like proudly go yeah those that's my squad that's my like it's just different it's just different there it was a different vibe around campus actually athletically it's far more accomplished now with some of the other stuff although hockey was a lot better when i was there skiing incredible um there was a russian girl from siberia that moved there and she just dominated everybody she was like a robot and then i guess she started like dating and eating pasta. Then the coach was like, yeah, she's, she's done. She's like, when she came over from Siberia, she was amazing.

And now that she's been Americanized, it's over. Anyway, I don't even know. I've gone this long on the story. That doesn't make any sense. But I was going to send a text to Van Pelt to be like, man, you know, you guys are dead. And then I remember the Van Pelt, like Maryland rule. Like you can't joke about Maryland, even when it's a preposterous joke.

And he actually sent me back like a, a nasty text after they won. So I deleted my text to Van Pelt being like, I'm not even going to bother. I'm not even going to bother with this. And then he did bother and sent me something nasty about UVM. So I was like, wow,

there you go. Lesson. Yeah. You can't. Van Pelt's not one of the guys that's going to let that slide. It could be you. It could be a random on Twitter. Like, that's getting a reply

if you come across the turf. Yeah, but I didn't. I ended up not even sending anything to him. And then I got it back after. Then, of course, you just do this. You just go, we're an academic school, man. Like, we don't worry about sports the way you guys do.

Higher standards. Yeah, we just have different standards. That was kind of fun, though. Like, you could say, if you were a Vermont fan, you'd be like, man. We don't worry about sports the way you guys do. Higher standards. Yeah, we just have different standards. That was kind of fun, though. You could say if you were a Vermont fan, you'd be like, whatever. Recruiting? You guys want to talk recruiting? Vermont doesn't do the stuff you guys do. We have to go on the road. All your bowl games are in the South.

Just all the stuff Ohio State fans do when they lose to SEC teams. Whatever. Bowl games. All right. Okay. Well, wow. We went for a while there, folks. Six minutes before we get to SEC teams. They're like, well, whatever. Bowl games. All right. Okay. Well, wow. We went for a while there, folks. Six minutes before we get to the point.

Okay, back to the email. Again, 27-642-40. Recently, my fiance and I had a cookout at our house on Sunday. We live in the Panhandle, Florida, so the weather is perfect. I don't know the Panhandle well. Don't know if I'll spend much time there. Don't know it. A few spots left in the country that I don't know the panhandle well. Don't know if I'll spend much time there. Don't know it. A few spots left in the country that I don't know well.

Panhandle's one of them. Warm during the day cools down as the sun sets. A group of our good friends came over which included some couples and a few who aren't in relationships. The party was awesome. Everyone behaved considering

we all worked in... Oh, wait a minute. Everyone behaved considering we all worked in the morning. At about 8 p.m., one of the single guys asked me if I had any whiskey. I grabbed one of my middle shelf bottles and poured a few glasses for myself, him, and another guy.

I didn't think it was the correct occasion to grab one of the expensive bottles because I figured we would have one or two a piece, one or two drinks a piece. Well, the guy who asked about the whiskey pounded his before we even get started. He decided to walk to my liquor cabinet and proceeded to pour himself a glass of one of my more expensive bottles without asking it didn't truly bother me at first i just kind of laughed it off until he went back for a second and then a third without asking so this dude is four whiskeys deep while myself and the other guy i've only had one at 9 30 uh so this is an hour and a half the guys tanked one well well we're not gonna say well whiskey but a middle shelf whiskey and then three top shelf whiskeys um so the guests start leaving except the whiskey thief by 10 30 my fiance and i'd clean up the whole house we're ready to head to bed but this guy

was still there i asked if he was okay to drive i'm gonna go ahead and tell you probably no um if he needed anything offer him water. But he proceeded to hang out. Finally, I said, hey, man, we're headed to bed. If you need to crash on the couch, that's cool. Just let yourself out whenever. He kind of looked offended that we were going to bed, but grabbed his keys and then asked, hey, can I take a bottle of wine? My fiance and I just looked at each other because he didn't know what to say.

We provided all the food and beer for the party, but some guests brought bottles of wine as a courtesy. The whiskey thief asked for one of the bottles someone else brought us. We just said yes because we would figure it would make him leave. It did. Now the problem is we're planning another cookout with the same group of friends. We're just unsure about him. He made things awkward, and the wine thing was weird.

It's not that we don't like the guy in a professional setting, but obviously this put a bad taste in our mouth. He's always around and caught wind of our next cookout so he asked about it not sure what the move is here do we invite him or not thanks man this was actually i think a week and a half ago this email came in you must be the nice you and your wife are like sweethearts you have to be from the midwest i'd imagine um this guy would have gotten beaten up in other parts of the country for this kind of activity. So this, this is a note, like you didn't do anything wrong. I'm the other than maybe giving a guy a bottle of wine that probably should have been dry.

But at that point, he's kind of making that decision. You don't know him that well. I mean, here's the deal. It could be a one-off. It's not a great first impression here. I mean, if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, say, Hey, maybe it's a one-off, you had a weird day, something was going on. But I think I've been around this enough to know that this guy just really likes to give him the benefit of the doubt say hey maybe it's a one-off you had a weird day something was going on but i think i've been around this enough to know that this guy just

really likes to put him back and at that point that was his only goal was just to keep drinking and drinking and because he wants you to keep drinking so he feels better about his drinking um to ask you to break out the top shelf stuff and then help himself and start pounding like he's drunk like when he asked you for the first, Hey, do you want to start firing up some whiskey? She's already been primed and you may not realize that. So now he's thinking like,

I want to get to that next level. And he starts asking about the whiskeys. And then at that point, it's just a, he's in his own lane of like, I just want to be shit face now. So he, he was wrong all the way through.

There's no part of this where you and your fiance were wrong the only thing that you're wrong about is having an open mind about it all right and if you invite him to another one because it sounds like you're an incredibly forgiving couple here you invite him to another one then i guess if he does the same thing you can confirm it and say all right we're done with this guy i don't even know why you'd want to bring him to the second one, but look, it does happen. It can happen where a guy in a new setting for whatever reason, maybe he hadn't gotten after in a while and it's a post COVID breakout. So I don't want to assume anything, but I think you have two real options. This guy sucks. And he also has an issue and he doesn't care because his deal is more important than everyone else.

Even though on a weeknight, we're talking a Sunday night going into a Monday. He wants to keep the party going and is annoyed when you tell him to leave your house and then asks for a parting gift after he already stole whiskey from you. Or, you know, he he just he let one get sideways from him. He just, he let one get sideways from him. But if he hasn't reached out, if he has no self-awareness where he wasn't like, hey, I have no idea. Like I just kind of got into it. Let the whiskey started tasting great. And next thing I know, like my bad, my bad, my bad.

It sounds like you want to give him another chance. But I think all of us listening to this know exactly where this guy is going to go. He's probably going to do something like this again. You should ask other friends like, hey, what's his deal? If everyone says, man, that's not like him at all then give him a second chance but i don't i don't think i don't think your second chance deal here like it's going to turn into this guy's like awesome and it was just a weird night my guess is that this is probably part of his routine really accommodating folks though man word i Word. I agree. It seems like,

like if you want, he sounds like he wants to let him go and he's like part of a friend's group. And yes, if he's catching wind when nobody's telling, like, he's not telling the, the whiskey thief,

if he's like already hearing about this thing, then like, yeah, it's probably easier to just see if he'll do it again, but like be primed and be ready to stand up for yourself. If you're like, Hmm, should I like tell him to not go into my fucking house and cabinets? then tell them that i think it's easier when you know it's coming

yeah i mean i had a party once and i had like staggered i mean it's probably the only adult party i've had that was good so rudy was there it was a kentucky derby party oh yeah rented a pony people dressed up we had a professional catering. We had a professional bartender. We did step and repeat. We did the whole thing up. And I actually remember like I hid bottles of move in my bedroom because I wanted to, I wanted to peak to it. You know what I mean? Like I wanted it to be kind of at this level. And then the great thing about that party, it was a Derby party. We rented the horse, everybody's having a good time. And then there was like a second tier of that party within the party. So there was like a second party where I started DJing and then, you know, it was on and we just, we just let it go. But there was a guest who I had mentioned to, I was

like, Hey, we get some boo for later for the champagne part of this but let's let's pace ourselves here a lot going on and uh she went to my bedroom and came out with two bottles of voob and was like can we open the voove and i was just so like this is so annoying like it's fucking i'll never forget the tone that's exactly the notes too hey can we can we open the VOOV? And it was like, you already went into my bedroom, which was closed, took the bottles out. I don't even know how the hell she knew they were in there, actually. Now that I'm thinking about it. And did you say anything?

Were you like, this guy? No, I was just like, whatever. I was like, yeah, go ahead. Open them up. Oh, you know what I must have done? I must have iced them and put them in my bedroom to keep them away from everybody because i didn't want everybody to drink them immediately um because you can see with champagne that's where things can go sideways a little bit earlier people don't sometimes it's like oh wait i just drank way too much of this way too fast

i guess is it that ridiculous to just maybe rearrange your liquor cabinet though and just hide the good stuff when you have like i think a lot of people do that anyway like that usually if there's like a big party they don't put out like the good whiskeys in like the cooler on the outside or something that stuff is usually in a closet somewhere where people don't know where it is so i don't think that's that big of a deal if the guy was creeping you out i think that's a little bit weird too but i also don't think it's that weird for him to ask for a bottle of wine on the way home because typically when you have a party too you've got all these leftover bottles that end up sitting there. And as someone

who has done that before, they end up sitting in your house and you throw them out because you don't drink them and they expire or they go bad or if one's half opened, it's kind of a disaster. You're left over with a million different beers and alcohol things that you're never going to drink in the future. So I actually don't mind him asking for a bottle of wine on the way home. Yeah, but it's not about

the wine. It's about the fact that he doesn't want to leave and it's a Sunday night and you're there with your fiance being like we gotta get up early yeah but if a bottle of wine gets him out the door sure dude take it go ahead yeah i mean beyond the obvious part like there's no way this guy should have been driving uh i had a couple friends i guess i probably would have been at this point 35 and they wanted to stay at my place for a concert which again i think when you're 35, okay, maybe, but you also could probably get a hotel room. And I was just trying to be like, yeah, I got this new apartment. It's great. Go ahead, check it out. And they opened up an unopened bottle of Blue Label, Johnny Walker, which I just had had as a gift. And I just,

it's not the way, I just wouldn't sit around and be like, oh, I'm going to have one of these tonight or whatever. It would have had to have been for whatever reason. I don't know. And it was kind of like, there was a million other things to choose from that were all nice things from the home bar. And they were like, now we're going to like, to prove a point, we're going to open that one and then have them. And it was a close friend too. But I remember being like, that's just lame. Like you just did it because it was, Oh, like it's Johnny Walker. Like let's drink those. And so whatever, it was one of the last times. I also think some other weird stuff went down. I think they met some street performers that were girls in the street outside of the concert. And

they stayed on my couch. I don't know. When I came back, uh, some neighbors were like, Hey, what the hell happened in there this weekend? I was like, I don't know. I was in Alabama. Yeah. Right. I was like, yeah, I think it think it was yeah that was like the last time because i even asked i go what the hell went on when i was gone that weekend he's like dude i was like that was like the only answer i got and i think that might have been the last time i let uh i let anyone stay in my apartment. Okay. All right. Let's keep this theme rolling today on a Monday slash Tuesday. Okay. We'll stay with the theme here. 5, 10, 180.

Guys getting married late summer. Fiance and I are debating two people on the guest list. We plan on having a smaller wedding, 50 to 70 people, 50 to 70 at a very nice Michelin star restaurant. Two of our friends, a guy and a girl, I guess they're not together here, are both very sweet people. We get along with them a lot. The girl even gave us Tiffany champagne glasses as an engagement gift, which was way more than anyone else did. The issue is the girls are raging alcoholic. We had a small get together at 3 p.m. at our place and she showed up completely hammered. Anytime we go out with the group, she will be making out with random guys.

She's dating a married guy as well because, of course, she is. When she's sober, she's the nicest, sweetest person, but we will be having an open bar, and this is a really classy place. Plus, our bosses will be there. So we're talking bride and grooms, bosses. We both work at a large firm that is prestigious. We thought of maybe cluing in the bartender to limit her drinks. That's not going to work.

But I just thought we should invite her and deal with the awkwardness afterwards. We can blame it on the fact that it's a small intimate wedding, although our mutual friends will be invited. So she probably will see through that, but whatever the guy is in a similar situation, but instead of booze involves going to the bathroom a lot. Sounds like this guy could have a prostate issue.

To each his own, but we are worried. One of our bosses or family members will walk into the bathroom and see him in all his glory, which is definitely something we don't want to or be associated with. What are your thoughts on potential troublesome guests? I'll hang up and listen. Yeah, it's a bummer, man.

I mean, look, we start here. The girl that wants to drink is going to drink all right she's not going to go like hey you know depending on depending on you know where you at there's all sorts of different levels of people's drinking habits here but there are the people that can you know only go out and get hammered and then they're the people that could do that but then can still pull it together for a wedding and then there's people like look there's probably more than the categories i'm thinking of but i think most of us at certain points if you've been around long enough you're going to have somebody in the group that is incapable of any of those things

you couldn't go to a fucking oil change without the guy turning into a disaster after an hour all right if there were a bar there so um it sucks and it sucks to see it happen to your friends or loved ones um but it it's probably happened to most of us so she's there's you can do whatever you want other guys are gonna be it sounds like if she starts making out with random guys and dating somebody married there's definitely gonna be another guy at the wedding that's gonna be buying her all the drinks she wants um so you know that part as far as the other guy going to be another guy at the wedding that's going to be buying her all the drinks she wants. So, you know, that part. As far as the other guy going to the bathroom all the time and doing drugs,

I think you're totally within your bounds of being like, hey, you know what? We'd rather you not do that. But the chances are, if that's his deal, then he's going to do it at some point no matter what. So asking these people to not do these things is a complete waste of time. I had a friend who did get married and

he did like to get after it, um, just on the drinking front, nothing else. And he was asked by his wife to like, Hey, is there any way you can not drink at your own way? And he said, um, he's like, I actually was thinking of bringing it up and he didn't drink at his own wedding. And, you know, we were all, I think it was, that's the other thing too, is like where you're at in the timeline is kind of like, all right, what were your habits in college? What was your friend group? Like, were you guys that went out all the time? And then there's always that awkward, like five years after college where you're still

like, you're still the guy, but you're supposed to be a grownup, but you're not really. Um, and every social part of your deal is always wrapped around like, well, how drunk are we getting? Right? Like, all right, we're just going out or going to this guy's house or it's this weekend or it's just golf trip. And you're still kind of like, well, that's what I did. And for some people, it's like a really hard habit to break because you're like, well,

wait a minute. I went out Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then like Saturday, I was a little tired, but maybe we just hang out, do some day beers and all that kind of stuff. Right? So we all, those, those that get the point, get the point. Others that don't are listening to this, perhaps even horrified. And,

you know, I would say this isn't about, um, anyone's, well, it is about choices, but it's also more about your surroundings. Like a lot of times you just kind of look around and be like,

Oh, this is kind of what my deal is because this is who I'm associated with. So anyway, um, this guy who got married and didn't drink, this basically knew like he couldn't drink and that was his own wedding. So I guess that was kind got married and didn't drink just basically knew like he couldn't drink and that was his own wedding. So I guess that was kind of a side, but not the case here. If you're that worried about it, especially with the guy who wants to

do drugs all the time, I don't think you're wrong in not inviting them. There's some people listening to this that are going, why did you take that long to even say that? That's the only option here. But it does hurt people's feelings to not get invited to something that they're expected to get invited to. And there are fringe people. There's a couple of weddings that I didn't get invited to where I was like, oh, I guess I'm on the fringe on that one. And then you kind of look around at the rest of it and be like, hey, you know what? I haven't been in the picture, though, with this group at all for five or six years. There was also a phase where I had broken up with somebody, so she was getting invited to everything. And then everybody was like, there's no way we're bringing Rosillo to this.

Mid-20s me, when she's going to be there with this new guy that was also in the circle of friends. So he's out. And it sucked that nobody had the balls to tell me that, but I'd have to figure it out after the fact. But it's a shitty feeling. It's a shitty feeling, but it's a feeling that goes away. And if those people are being honest with themselves, they're also going to know that like, hey, I didn't get invited because I always get drunk or I didn't get invited because I'm a complete cocaine wildcard. And the fact that they are those things is not your fault, right? It has nothing to do with you. So if you have any anxiety about this, I would not invite either of them, especially the boss part in the drugs deal.

I mean, somebody is going to get drunk at a wedding. It's not the biggest deal in the world. You know what I mean? It does happen. There'll be weddings this weekend where people are going to make terrible decisions. But there's a small part of this that probably isn't going to teach anyone a lesson, but who knows? It could be kind of like a wake-up call to one of the two where you're like, man, I didn't get invited to so-and-so's wedding because I get too shit-faced or because I always like to do drugs. I don't know if it's a silver lining or any part of the wake up call. Probably not. It would probably have to be way worse than just not getting invited to a wedding for somebody to want to clean up their act if that's their case. Um, and that's, you know, not me counseling on any part of that. But, um, I, you know, there's another girl that I was seeing who definitely liked to get after it. And I thought I was getting invited to this wedding and then I didn't get invited because of her. And I was like, yeah, that's what I was like. That's fair. invited to this wedding and then I didn't get invited because of her. And I was like, yeah, that's what I was like. That's fair. That's whatever, you know? So the other, like you, it's you getting married. It's your day. It's your wife's day. And you, I don't get too caught

up in worrying about everybody else's feelings about whether or not they're going to be in a deal where 50 to seven is actually really small. So you can do that and lie about it and say, yeah, it was really small. And then they'll see somebody that you're less friends with. And then it was a really nice gift, but, um, you know, it's your day. This is your day. You shouldn't have to kind of juggle this stuff, even though, I mean, this one thing, when you have like divorced parents, right. And you're like, how could I sit here? We're going to sit there. Like if I ever get married, like I can't invite one of the parents, one will have to not be at my wedding. That's

unavoidable. This is just some girl that makes out with people after a couple of sarsaparillas. What are your allegiance to her? A gift? So there you go. LifeAdvice, rr at gmail dot com. We got a great week.

Awesome guests throughout. A couple big things planned again, kind of along the lines of, not the ABA and NFL stuff, but we just have, yeah, we have some other things that we're working on on the side, and when they're ready to go,

we'll release them probably this summer. So please subscribe. As always, Ryan Russillo Podcast. Thank you to Steve Cerruti and Big Daddy Kyle Crichton. 6'3", 250. What's up, kid? Thank you.