The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Michael Vick on His Career and Getting it Back After Prison. Plus, the “30/13 Theory.”

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

Russillo shares his thoughts on some of the early NBA playoff upsets (2:15) before talking with iconic former NFL QB and FOX NFL analyst Michael Vick about changes in the way coaches and executives view the mobile QB, some of today’s top mobile QBs, including Lamar Jackson, Kyler Murray, and Patrick Mahomes, Vick’s time with the Atlanta Falcons, making good use of his time in prison, transitioning back into the NFL and earning his starting spot with the Philadelphia Eagles, and more (18:27). Finally, Ryen answers a listener-submitted Life Advice question (50:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

hey it's ryan rossillo podcast and we know that sports are behind the back and the only way to celebrate their return is with buffalo wow wings where the wings come in 24 sauces and seasonings when you watch at home make sure you watch with a wing bundle. I just feel like we have to mention Asian Zing every time. We probably are going to mention it again a little bit later on, but 24 sauces, man. Are that too many sauces? I'm not crazy. I mean, look, they're paying for the ad, but it's just, it's overwhelming. I don't know what to do. Have they done a bracket of their sauces? 24?

They can make it like college. Invite everybody. They can make up some sauces. But you know what? 24 is a good start. So, sports are back, and there's no better way to watch than with Buffalo Wild Wings. I'm really proud of this podcast. We have Mike Vick coming up here shortly.

Fox Sports. And we know multi-pro bowler in the nfl and we also know served 17 months i think the original sentence was 23 months in federal prison for his role in a dog fighting ring and um i've always wanted to talk to him i talked to him a little bit about jail when uh i first met him from mad and released things sports nation which i'll bring up with him but i spent a whole day with him at espn again it's not i've run into him a couple times we have mutual friends that's about it and was offered up vick as a guest i said look i want to talk football but i kind of want to talk about um some of the stuff in jail that i've never really heard

him talk about except for an interview that i did read and he was down with it. So it's an incredible interview and it's really good storytelling. And I'm sure there's some of you that are never going to be able to pick another chance and I get it. I'm not here to tell you that you should. We all have our own reasons for how we look at everybody else, but I don't know. I just want to do this podcast and do it the way we did it. And I'm really proud of it. So that'll be coming up in just a few minutes. But first, I want to start with a story and an observation. So we're a couple days into the playoffs now. We already have some weird stuff happening, which is kind of funny because I remember going, why is everybody trying to pick these outcomes where the lesser teams are

just going to beat the better teams just because it's neutral and things are different? Yeah, it's different, but why would the worst teams win? And now we're having some really weird results where you have two one seeds lose the eights. You have the Clippers as probably more people's pick to win the title split with Dallas in the first two. There's just some stuff going on. I mean, Toronto looks like Toronto, even if you could say, well, that Brooklyn game was close, but you know, series are like that. I mean, it's this thing we even if you could say, well, that Brooklyn game was close. But, you know, series are like that. I mean, it's this thing we need to remind ourselves of all the time, and that is that, you know, whoever you like, whoever you think is good,

there's going to be a moment in that series where you're proven right, and there's going to be another time where it looks really wrong. I mean, look at Denver and Utah. Utah looked like a team that nobody would beat after game two. That was one of the more incredibly tight, everyone locked in, the right shots, the right movement the entire time. And Jamal Murray wasn't nearly as good in game two as he was in game one because that's kind of the group that he's in.

And that's sort of where this whole theory is going. But we have examples of both the good and the bad from a lot of the players that we debate about and a lot of these teams. I'm not ready yet to start saying, yep, it's the bubble and that's why everything's different. And we're going to have ourselves a Mavs heat finals. And even the heat doesn't even feel like it would be that bad of a pick. But let's just see how a little bit more of this plays out. But the reason I brought up Jamal Murray is because he was so good in closing game one, going up against Donovan Mitchell, who drops 57.

Which I almost feel like that's not giving enough credit. Be like, hey, he just scored the third most points ever in a playoff game, but they lost, so maybe that's the problem. But Jamal Murray had a stretch where he was really good, and it was like, oh, here we go. This is what the Nuggets could be if you have Murray playing like this, especially with some of the shot making that we've seen from Michael Porter Jr., and he was terrific early in game two as well.

But there's this theory that I've had, and it's not even a theory as much as it's just a real simple thing. Are you surprised if Jamal Murray has 30? No. Are you surprised if he has 13? The answer should also be no. And Jamal Murray is still a little bit on the younger side of this, but there's a lot more examples of this. Chris Middleton is 30, 13. Um, Paul George is 30, 13.

He had zero points in the first half against the Clippers or excuse me, the Clippers game against the Mavs. And it reminds me of a story when we were a lot younger, we were in our twenties and nobody was tough out of the group um and there was there was a couple guys that got into it with these dudes in the parking lot at a local place in vermont i think it was like a hannaford's or something and because you're in college and and you think like hey and it was a very weird like insecure thing at uvm because nobody was tough we didn't have a football team the hockey guys, there's a handful of those guys that were goons, but they liked us at that point. So you weren't really ever afraid of anybody, but you had to like carry yourself a certain ways if you were tough. And I

don't know. I mean, I was totally full of shit. So, um, I wasn't, and most of my friends weren't either. So what would happen though, is it like you had to kind of pretend you were, you know, just think about khakis and the sunglass thing or a kid kid you get in an argument with and then all of a sudden you're like wait why is this guy screaming at me like he's bruce lee at the end of a movie and you're like well that's just what younger guys do is they scream and yell and and kind of do this this cobra deal where they just start you know preening a little bit and that's supposed to scare everybody off or it looks cool in front of other people well there was an argument in this grocery store parking lot where a couple friends

i think got beat up by 13 year olds now did they really get beat up by 13 year olds no but when the story was told and like a couple guys came back with ripped shirts and one dude's eye was pretty jacked up. We were back at our house and we were like, what happened? Like you got beat up in the middle of the day. The guy's like, we didn't get beat up. And then there was a third guy that was like, yeah, well you got, and the third guy was like the voice of reason. And the guy that was like, I'm not trying to be anything other than who I am. And he just was like, yeah, dude, he's like, you guys got into it with like teenagers and you lost, and you guys are supposed to be like college guys in a fraternity, and it was really embarrassing for those dudes,

really embarrassing to have to kind of own that a little bit, and they kept saying that the guys that beat them up were in their 30s, and then the third guy kept going like, they might have been 13, and he kept saying 13 over and over again for effect. And his whole point, he kept coming back as they would defend themselves and they shouldn't have been because they lost. They probably started it or acted tough. And the local guys are like, whatever.

A couple of UVM guys have had it. You guys are mouthing off to us. We don't care if it's the middle of the day. We're about to go look for worms. Right. So they didn't want to give in to the fact that they probably got beat up by high school kids. And my other friend who would not let it go kept saying, OK, maybe they're 30, but you can't say they're 100 percent, not 13 either. And that was the best line. It was just it was perfectly delivered.

It was funny. And that's what I think about so many players in the league. I have a very defined set of rules. in the league. I have a very defined set of rules. And whenever I say something that sounds like I'm crushing one of the stars of the league, it's very clear that I just think there's a separation between the tier one and tier two guys. That is a real thing. And we see it all the time from these players. So if Paul George gets 40 in a playoff game against the mass, I'm not going to be surprised, but when he has zero in the first half puts together a nice little stretch in the third quarter, but has what's a pretty underwhelming game. I'm not going to be surprised, but when he has zero in the first half, puts together a nice little stretch in the third quarter, but has what's a pretty underwhelming game. I'm not going to be surprised by that either. Kevin Durant brings it every night when he's in the playoffs every night. It's actually incredible. I went through his game log again, and I'm not saying

Paul George is Kevin Durant, but if Paul George is third and MVP voting one year. And at one point when he was with the Pacers is being thrown out as potentially the number two best player to LeBron James, that's pretty rarefied error. But what I would say is, depending on where you're at with it, because we're probably all going to disagree, the five or six players that truly change who you are as a franchise. And this list that I kind of talk about, that's a moving target all the time. But we know LeBron, we know Kawhi, we know Giannis. all the time, but we know LeBron, we know Kawhi, we know Giannis. I'm not ready to do that with Luka quite yet, although these first couple games are just off the charts how scary he is on these drives. One of my favorite plays so far in just a few games is him driving right at Kawhi, shoulder in the chest, and flicking Kawhi away from him. Kawhi wasn't strong enough to deal with Luka

Doncic. I know Luka's bigger, but still, it's Kawhi. Harden does bring it. I think Curry changes who you are as a team. There'll probably be even some pushback to Curry. Durant certainly is it, guys. Maybe it's five, maybe it's six. But when I say, hey, Jimmy Butler's really good, I'd pay him a max contract. I'd give Paul George a max contract. I get why Chris Middleton gets a max contract. I never want to hear about those guys being talked about as the group that is in front of them because they're just not those guys enough. Kevin Durant has played 139 playoff games. He's had eight games where he's under 20 points that count because he had one game back from an injury where he just didn't play that much.

And then he had the other game where he did get hurt, I think, 11 minutes in, so he didn't get to 20 points. So if you look at the games that he's played, the full-blown playoff games, he's only had eight games where he's under 20 points. He went three years between playoff games, one stretch, where he was under 20 points. Paul George, I didn't count Paul George's first 16 playoff games because it wasn't entirely fair to do that. So we cut those out. So give me the next 62 playoff games because it wasn't entirely fair to do that. So we cut those out. So give me the next 62 playoff games for Paul George. He's had 20 games where he's under 20 points. So we're talking almost a third of Paul George's. Hey, he's a better player because I didn't count in the first three series because I think they're all under 20. It was going to make

the numbers look even worse. I did him a favor, but Paul George will have that moment where it's like, man, this guy's killing it. Everybody knows he's one of the game's best players. And I've already gone through the playoff resume when I did it with Bill. But again, Paul George, 30-13. Does either of those results surprise you? Jimmy Butler has been much better, a lot like George in that sense where his overall averages are a lot better. But Jimmy Butler's not one of the number one guys in the league, despite what he'll say in an interview when he's just mad at the world. Chris Middleton. Chris Middleton. I mean, these are numbers last year for Middleton in the Eastern Conference Finals against Toronto. the Eastern Conference Finals against Toronto. Game one, 11 points.

Game two, 12 points. Game three, 9 points. Drops 40 in game four. Probably has the announcer saying, oh, this Chris Middleton guy is so underrated. And then he gets six in game five. And then he closes out the game where they're facing elimination. And again, those last, their three losses

were only by six points. He scored nine, six, and 14. And that was after he had destroyed Boston. And Jamal Murray, this is just unfair at this point. He's 23 years old. He's played in 16 playoff games. Already half of them, just under half of them, he's had less than 20 points. And I don't even want to put Murray in that group with somebody like Middleton, somebody like Jimmy Butler, or a Paul George. I mean, Giannis has had 11 sub-20-point games and 35 playoff games. That seems low. But just remember the next time we're looking at a Tobias Harris who's invisible in another game, and we look at the scoring averages, and we go, wow, some of these numbers are really good. And I think we're not really caught up

to date yet enough in basketball where it's a bit like the quarterback. The quarterback is probably not even top 15, but throws for 4,000 yards and maybe 25 touchdowns. But you don't trust in a big third down. You never think he's going

to win a playoff game. And yet somebody would argue, wow, look at those stats. You're like, look, I'm sorry that Bubby Brister didn't throw for 4,000 yards all the time. But this current guy isn't really that good. It's the explosion of the offense. It's the way the game is played today. And when I have somebody who's a 20-point scorer disappear, I always ask myself about that player. I go, 30-13. Would you be surprised? Can

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West Virginia, visit www.1800gambler.net or in Indiana, call 1-800-9-WITH-IT. It feels, Mike, like it hasn't been that long, but then at the same time, it can feel like it's been forever. Yeah. You haven't played in five years, and, but then at the same time, it can feel like it's been forever. Yeah. You haven't played in five years. And when you look at the game, it feels like it's a completely different game.

So many of these young, great quarterbacks doing a lot of the stuff that you were doing, but it's just more accepted. I know you've talked about it. It's been just the theme for years. How much do you kind of wish you were playing in today's game? I mean, I think about it a lot in terms of the damage that I could have done. You know, passing the football, running the football, and now offenses are catered towards, you know, guy's skill set. So if you get a guy who's, you know, 6'3", 225 pounds,

but can move a little bit or, you know, 6'5", 235 pounds, but can move a little bit, or 6'5", 235, like a la Joe Barrow, who regardless of him looking like a prototypical pocket passer, he's a guy that can move the chains with his legs. It's accepted. Offenses are geared towards making the quarterback better, making it's accepted, you know, and, you know, offenses are geared towards making the quarterback better, making the team better, getting the most out of your quarterback and, you know, everything that he can do within the offense. And, you know, when I just look at what I could have did, you know,

at the pace that I played the skill set that I had, the vision that I had and the competence that I had to run an offense, I mean, sky would have been the limit in terms of what I could have did. So, you know, I do look at the game now and I get a little jealous. I'm not going to lie, you know, because these guys are, you know, doing what I did, but they're doing it at a faster pace. But, you know, it's made me such a big fan of the game. You know, Ryan, I can't not watch football on Sundays.

Like, after I show on the kickoff, I'm watching NFL Sunday, Monday, Thursday, back to Sunday. I mean, it's just a revolving door for me. So I just love what the game is presenting to the fans now and how coaches are taking advantage of, you know, guys' talents. Whenever you think about you first coming up i mean i don't i don't feel like anybody was was down on your running it was just always kind of historically like okay there'll be the dual threat guy but then eventually he

stops running because it's just hard to stay healthy but is it easier to stay healthy should we expect more of these dual threat guys because of the blocking because of the shorter passing because of just some of the rules like it is it just easier for us to accept that there's a longevity to running quarterbacks that maybe we never thought we could have before yeah i spoke to calum murray earlier today and uh the first thing that came to my mind was that he played all 16 games last year and you look at caller Murray, he's probably one of the most mobile quarterbacks in the game today. And even though he's a rookie,

his durability was there. And the question that I always had to answer was, can he make it through 16 games? And I only did it once in my career. And the year I did it, I ran 4,000 yards. But prior to then,

out for two games, out for three games. So, you know, general managers and teams are going to look at that as, you know, we may need those games. So now we got to go out and get a great backup quarterback or molded backup quarterback to fill the void where he's not on the field. You know, so, you know, I felt like it wasn't accepted because you know guys you know pocket passes was playing 16 games and they they was durable and they was iron man and i respected that though so you know the evolution of uh the mobile quarterback has been can he sustain can he be out there and i think you know cam newton did a great job up until like year eight, you know,

year nine, where it started to take a toll on him. But you get guys who, you know, understand what, you know, the physical side of it is all about. You know, they protect themselves better. You know, Russell Wilson, he slide and get down. I seen Lamar Jackson sliding and get down on a couple of occasions, even though he can get crazy, you know, sometimes. And that's what being mobile will do. Sometimes, like, you get so caught up in the game, you get so caught up in pleasing the fans and, you know, your bravado and what you can do, you can lose it a little bit, especially when you, you know, you're faster than the opposition. So I like where the game is at today because these guys are protecting themselves better.

You know, technology now, like, God, Terry Hamstring, he back in a week. I tell my hamstring, I'm back in four. You know, technology now, like God turned hamstring, he back in a week. I tell my hamstring, I'm back in four. You know, so it just works out. But I like the way it's evolving. So everybody knows this as far as the younger guys, and I've been around, I've seen it a few times, where the reverence for you,

like you are a hero to the generation of quarterbacks that has come up since then. Who's your number one guy then that's playing now? Who's the guy that's almost bugging you too much, but you still love him? Bro, I'm going to say this, man. Like Lamar holds a special place in my heart because I can look at Lamar and see everything that he's doing and say, I know why he did that. You know, so I can live vicariously through him.

And I like, you know, I'm still a big Aaron Rodgers fan. I'm a big fan of Tom Brady. And, you know, Patrick Mahomes is probably going to be the goat next to the goat, you know, down the road. And he make the game look so easy. It's like, you know, I envy, but I love what he doing, you know, because I get to watch it and I get to witness greatness. But, you know, for some reason, man, Kyler Murray, when I think about all the quarterbacks in the game today and, you know, the offensive skill set that he has, the coach that he has and coming from a collegiate system, bringing it to the NFL. And I looked at his stats early and, you know,

he was 60% completion percentage, 20 to 10 touchdowns to interception ratio, rookie of the year. I mean, he did some great things and people aren't talking about him. But I went back and did my research and looked at him and studied him closely. That kid gets it. He understands the game. He knows the game of football.

And he's only 5'10", you know, at that. You know, he's Russell Wilson-ish. And I just love his game, man. I think I, you know, can make a prediction that this team is going to go very far. I just got DeHop, Larry Fitz. But I'm a big fan of quarterback play all across the league. But Kyler Murray, there's something about him that just sparks special to me. I think he got the it factor, and I can't wait to see it in year two,

as he told me today that he's feeling more comfortable within the offense. So that's not even just because you talked to him that you would say just watching him. This isn't like, hey, he's my favorite guy personality-wise. You're just saying that you see something with him that wow that I mean look the Mahomes thing goes without saying but I guess that surprised me a little bit with Kyler yeah and I like to look at quarterbacks who you know just gems in their own right guys who are gonna be difference makers like a like a Teddy Bridgewater with the Carolina Panthers now I think it's just it's a good reason that he's in that offense and he's with that team. He's a great fit.

So, with Cowley, it wasn't anything that really stood out. I just thought about, you know, the growth and how hard it is to play as a rookie and what you have to endure in 16 games and, you know, guys coming in and out. He took 40 – he got sacked 46 times last year, but kept getting up and kept grinding. And, like, it's something to this kid. It's a merit to that, you know, when a guy can hang in there and show his team that he's going to be there for all four quarters. It's fighting him, you know, to the very end.

He's not going to deviate from the game plan, win or lose. You know, I think the season was, you know, it was subpar last year, but they got a lot of room for growth. So, you know, in terms of what Kyler has been able to do in one year, I just respect that because year one for me, I couldn't have done what he did. I couldn't have played. I wasn't ready. Were there times – because that's one of of the things and you're going to be

able to obviously speak to this much better than I ever could but when I watch a younger guy I'll go okay third and seven does he understand what the hell's going on out there is he totally lost and you sometimes I think if you just watch enough you can be like I don't know that I really trust this guy and then more often than not the guys you start to buy into you're like like Russell Wilson is my favorite on that down a distance because I feel like no matter what he he's going to be able to solve this. How quickly can you see someone, it doesn't mean they're necessarily bad, but at that point, they're still lost as a young quarterback. How quickly can you see that? You can see it early because what coaches do, majority of the time, they put us through situational football. So we have periods

that's predicated to first and 10, second and long. We have a third down period. We have a red zone period. And we have a two-minute. So you get to see the quarterbacks perform in all these situations, whether you're the number one, the number two, or the number three. And when you're the number one, you watch the number two run the two-minute drill, and you're like, okay, he gets it.

He knows what he's doing. He knows the signals. He knows the audibles. He knows the checks. He knows the defense. And boom, boom, boom, they move down the field. So when you put in those situations, you can find out if a young quarterback can handle, you know, these situations in particular. You know, so we'll watch him, know continuously in third down and coaches even log

your percentages and how well you do so you get a good glimpse of what a guy can handle and various concepts that might fit the mold when he's trying to run a two-minute drill or third down situation i always felt like that green bay win for you in your first playoff game maybe made all of us think, oh, my God, this is going to be an incredible run here. You. Did that? Well, yeah.

Tell me about that because after some of the stuff you just talked about, maybe not being ready, what did that game do for you and then kind of where you thought you were going to be as a franchise guy? You know what, man? That game was a gift and a curse for me. I accomplished so much in year two. And I'll never forget this on the sideline, Arthur Blank coming to me saying, you accomplished all this and you're only 22 years old.

And I looked at him and I was like, it's just so much more to come. And, you know, I felt like it was so easy to get to that point that I could always get back to, you know, divisional rounds, to the NFC Championship, which came two years later. It was so easy getting there, but still a hard road travel. You know, I just felt like the ceiling was very high, man. So, you know, I got spoiled early. I expected the playoffs every year. And the years that we didn't make it, it was a lot of heartbreak, man.

But to be able to go into Lambeau and defeat Brent Favre, who I idolized as a young man, was a remarkable feeling. The way you describe that as a gift and a curse, I think, is a perfect way because you're thinking, all right, at this age, to go into Lambeau this doesn't happen um and and to beat that team and then you lose to Philly after that I I know you've mentioned it in different interviews where you kind of felt like look I'm so talented I'll figure it out are there are there still moments of regret where you're like you know I just wish and I have

moments about stuff that wasn't even as nor like not even close to being as cool as the NFL, but just moments as you get older where you're like, man, I wish there was some sort of time machine where I could have had a different mindset about it. Yeah, you know what, in years five, year six, where I thought I had all the answers. And you learn a new offense in one year, you make the NFC Championship game,

and then you feel like in year two of that offense, you got all the answers. So, yeah, you don't work as hard. You don't pay attention to detail because you're like, coach, if we just do the same things that we did last year, I'm going to put us in that same position. I'll make the same decisions. I'll make the same reason and be quick and fluent in doing it. And the next year defense has changed, you know, so you coach call the same place, doing what you asked him to do. We call the same play and then you get a different defense.

So now you didn't expect that. So now it's a different result and it might be, you know, you know, a six yard pass and a flat on third down. You need an eight as opposed to a-yard game that you got the year before in the same play. And you're like, you know, damn, I made that decision because I had to. It was the right thing to do within the system. And I was always trying to put the harness on running the football and trying to preserve myself.

I was always getting those whispers, and I needed to grow as a passer. So there was a lot of things that I was dealing with that I wish I wouldn't have focused on as much and just played my game but it was a part of it and it was a learning experience and once I got to Philadelphia um I kind of was able to package everything together yeah that's really what they that the second year because the first year they didn't they didn't use you a ton but i met you back in 2011 we did sports nation together for the mad release deal it was you me beetle who i went back and watched the footage she has a boot on her foot yeah she had a broken foot she was injured yep i'm wearing some gold

asics which i don't know what the fuck i was doing with those on uh but i'll admit like look i'd never met you you know you you know you everything you gone through, you're in prison for what? 17 months. And I was kind of thinking like, all right, what's he going to, what's this guy going to be like? And we had a couple moments where it was off camera and off the commercial. And I just felt like, you know, we're getting along a little bit. And I was like, Hey, so just, I'd love to talk a little bit about that experience and

how that transition to the second part of your career, because you were originally in Virginia and then you transferred to Leavenworth to go through a program that you were later like denied. How scared were you when you first got to Leavenworth thinking that maybe they totally tricked you when you were going maximum security and that this was going to be even worse than you thought? Oh man, story's untold. You know, I travel from Virginia. Fill it in.

I travel from Virginia to Kansas. Private plane. We're in the clouds. I'm like, okay, this is going to be a smooth transition. I know where I'm going. I'm going to a camp and I didn't get approved for a drug program that would have knocked off like seven or eight months of my sentence.

So I'm like, okay, I'm going here to complete this program, and this is the only reason that I'm going to Kansas other than that I can do my time in Virginia. To be close to your family, right? Yeah, to be close to my family. But of course, they don't look at it like that. It's really not about you and what you want. But when we first pulled up, we pulled up to Leavenworth.

Leavenworth. The big prison, the penitentiary Leavenworth. And I'm like, this ain't where I'm supposed to be. Like, they done tricked me again. First of all, they told me I was coming here for a drug program.

And then, you know, halfway in the trip, I'm told that I get denied. And then we pull up to this, like, just big, scary-looking place. And I'm like, yo, that's not for me. I'm not that guy. You know, I might have, you know, had some slip-ups and things having gone my way. But, you know, I'm not about to do, you know, my next 18 months, you know, in there, you know, and, you know, luckily for me, you know, God looked at me and was like, yo, you're not going there, you're going to the next building over, and, you know, that was a big relief for

me, because, you know, it was a different mindset I was going to have to have going in there, I've heard stories about it, and people heard, and're like, oh, that's a real place. That's a facility that, you know, if you walk in there, man, you got to walk in there as a grown man, you know. And, you know, that wasn't my life, man. I was a football player. I had ambitions of becoming an NFL quarterback as a kid. You know, well, not as a kid because I didn't know what position

I was going to play. That's another story I'm told. I just happened to play quarterback. But it worked out for me. Nevertheless, I was just in the wrong situation and I wasn't supposed to be there, man. Well, rightfully so, I was supposed to be there. But, you know, just in general, it just wasn't in my destiny, in my destiny. And I don't know how, you know, my life got sidetracked, but it did. And but it worked out for the best. You know, I never look at that as, you know, an experience that I didn't learn from, you know, a mistake that I didn't, you know, figure out, you know, why I made the mistake and how I was able to move forward from. I made the mistake and how I was able to move forward from it.

You're Mike Victor going into prison. And are you thinking like, hey, look, like these guys are probably like fans. Or are you going, no, somebody's definitely going to fuck with me. Like what happens? Yeah, my first day. Well, when I got there that day, I walked in at lunchtime. And I'm like, damn, this is a bad time to be walking in. So, you know,

it's segregated when you walk in. It's blacks on one side and it's the whites on the other side. And the black side was full. It was no seats. It was nowhere for me to sit. So I went and sat on the white side. Look, I'm diverse. I can fit in. You know, I'm not worried about, I ain't worried about nobody. Like, I'm me. You know, but I, you know But I hear all these whispers. I see everybody looking. They sizing me up. My diet wasn't right. You know what I mean? So I was like six feet, probably like 198 at the time. The stress it got some.

It was wearing on me. And I went and sat on the side with the whites, man. And I didn't like the food. I got up and I walked out and went to my counselor's office. But, yo, it was real nerve-wracking. It was nerve-wracking. Certainly one of those moments when I think back, I'm proud of because I walked in with my head up high. And I think I showed some form of confidence because from that point on, it was like, you know, guys just gravitated to me.

You know, it was there to help me. You know, we was all there to get out of there. And, you know, nobody thought about harming anyone or anything like that, man. It was just about doing your time and getting back to civilization. I have two more questions on it, so I don't want to belabor it, but you did play sports there, right? Yeah, yeah, no doubt. We had the basketball squad.

We had the basketball league. We won the championship. Okay, but there was almost an altercation with you because a guy accused you of paying off the refs. Is that true? Yeah, yeah. I had an altercation with a guy from St. Louis. And yeah, man, so I told this story before.

It's not a story untold. Like, it keeps me cheating. I'm like, bro, like, come on, man. Playing a prison basketball game, like, it's not that serious. Like, it's serious to you because we got some fans and we got people in here. You know, I got a little fan base. You know, I'm doing my thing. I'm rocking out.

You know, I banged little fan base. You know, I'm doing my thing. I'm rocking out. You know, I banged the last game and everything. You know, so I was consistent. Consistent. Nobody could beat us and we won the championship. The game before the championship, you know, it was frustration started

to set in with other teams and this guy was like, you know, you paid the ref. You paid the ref off. I'm like, bro, you talking crazy, man. Go back to your bunk. He like, yo, nah,, and this guy was like, you know, you paid the ref. You paid the ref off. I'm like, bro, you talking crazy, man. Go back to your bunk. He like, yo, nah, fuck you. I'm like, what? Like, yeah, I said it.

Like, fuck you. You know, I'm like, damn, bro, fuck me? Like, over a basketball game? He was like, man. I said, well, look, you know, some words was exchanged, and I was like, look, man, you know, I'm going to show you. Like, I'm going to show you. I ain't the one. You know, I'm here to, you know, everybody know I'm cool.

I'm cool. I'm going to get along with everybody. But he just took it there, you know, and I was willing to take it there in that moment. And I just felt real disrespected amongst my peers and people in there that I had respect for and had respect for me. And I just wasn't going to let it go down like that. And that was the only altercation I had. And it would come through sports and not even a sport that, you know,

I was. So football, nobody messed with you. You're telling me what we play. We play one football game. Okay. All right. I remember you telling me this and the fields was like this.

It's up and down. Like, yeah, like, yo, I mean, if you're running deep, you might step in the pothole. I think I seen the dude deep and he flew in the pothole. But we did play one game. And, like, it gave guys a chance to see me throw the football and, like, how easy it was.

You know, I'm just, like, throwing the football and, you know, a guy running 10 yards and cutting across the middle is like, I can do that with my eyes closed. But, you know, to the average guy, he can't do it. You know, he's probably throwing with crazy throwing motion and probably looking like one of my daughters trying to throw the football.

But they was just amazed. I remember one of my friends coming up to me afterwards and was like, bro, I see why you played in the pros. And I'm like you ain't seen nothing yet you know so you know wait till i get out so that was like my motivation and my way of showing them like you know i still got it and that was without throwing a football in like 11 months how annoying did it get though when you guys would sit around and watch and then they would try to argue with you because that's like my favorite thing about sports it doesn't

matter who you are they were just telling telling you you were wrong about players. Yeah, because you know you got guys in there with so many different personalities. Some guys, sports guys. Some guys, music guys. Some guys just like to sit and watch the TV and watch the latest gossip. You know, it's whatever.

You know, the latest reality TV show. You know, a bunch of different personalities. But you got guys in there who think they can be sports broadcasters, so one thing they know everything about the game. Football, of different personalities. You got guys in there who think they can be sports broadcasters, too, and think they know everything about the game. Football, basketball, baseball. The hardest thing on Sundays, and I used to just try to keep

my mouth shut because I tried to pay attention to detail of what was going on and follow the game. It was guys thinking they knew why a guy didn't get the first down when he was two yards short or why a coach made a certain call. He might have ran the ball on third and five,

but he ran a draw. Draws work. They trick you. That's how you trick the opposition. You trick the defense with that. That's how I got to explain to them. I got tired of explaining because these guys thought

there was no at alls and I hated it. I started watching football by myself. Yeah, I don't blame you on that one. I'm on TV. I'm on TV. You're about to get out and we know that while you're still in, and I didn't know what your expectations were if Atlanta, like, look, I was not surprised Atlanta moved on from you.

Yeah. But they take Matt Ryan and it feels official. What was that like and how did that impact your drive to return once you knew you were going to get out? Yeah. A lot of people wasn't surprised. I was surprised. You were?

But I wasn't surprised. Because I was just like, man, we're going to work this out. We're going to stick it out. Did Arthur, did the owner of the Falcons tell you you were going to work it out? Because that was always... No, he never told me verbally. He never said verbally that we were going to work it out.

You got? Or why would you think that? A lot of people within the organization came to visit. They stood by me. They was there communication-wise, you know, when I was at my lowest moments and just needed people to talk to, needed confirmation on, you know on my security around the league and if I'll be able to come back and play.

And I was leaning on people within that organization, a guy named Kevin Winston, who was a great friend of mine to this day. He was a great confidant. He was a friend. He was there for me when I needed him. And he never told me that it wasn't going to happen with them drafting somebody else. I just believed in the organization and the relationship that we had built. But when I think about that relationship, I didn't take advantage of the things that I was supposed to take advantage of,

the opportunities that was there, my relationship with Arthur. You know, when they drafted Matt, I had to take it with a grain of salt. You know, unfortunately for me, that was the same day my grandmother passed away. So that added fuel to the fire and it made me more angry. But that night, you know, a guy in prison, he pulled me to the side and he told me like,

look, man, you are here. You can't control what's going on out there in the world, and you have to be realistic about the situations that you're facing and what people have to do. You know, it's about monitoring. You know, it has nothing to do with you, man. You know, I've seen that steamroll as time went on. Like, look, it was the right things for the Falcons to do at the time.

You know, they got their franchise quarterback who's still there to this day, which says they made the right decision. And I appreciate that part more than anything because if it was a guy that would have just came in and he would have played three or four years and out, then I would have been trying to get back to Atlanta after a couple years in Philly because I would have felt that there was still a hole, a void left,

you know, in that city, which I still feel is there to this day, man, because of my actions. Do you feel it sometimes when somebody looks at you and doesn't know you and hates you? You know what? That doesn't happen. Honestly, like if it does, then they keep their distance, which I respect, you know, I respect my space, you know, give me, give me 50 feet, you know, I'll take it, you know what I mean? Give me 50 feet. I mean, and stay in your own space and, you know, you contain that space. I'll contain mine. You know, I think the biggest thing is from what I went through, and yes, it was a lot of hatred that came through, you know, what I got involved in.

But I think over time, people started to see, like, you know, he's really not as barbaric as they might portray him out to be you know he is um you know a person who's empathetic who understands what he did and the mistake that he did making us trying to you know make amends to it and that's all i could do you know um i set goals when i was in prison to help more animals than i hurt and came back and was able to get three laws passed and, you know, worked with the Humane Society and various organizations and be a part of multiple campaigns. And it was cool. It was fun. It was everything that I set out to do. And I thank God for the people who was in my corner for giving me those opportunities to work with those special interest groups and, you know, make mark in society you know for for different calls

what was the timeline of the eagles and and you going there because i think some people looked at the quarterback room and they're going wait what where's the need here was there ever a chance i don't know if you should was there ever a chance you were actually going to go somewhere else other than philadelphia well I thought it was a chance. Talking to my agent at the time, Joel Siegel, I'm looking at rosters around the league, and I'm seeing Cincinnati, Carson Palmer was about to beat Jettison out of there. Buffalo head Trent Edwards at the time, and I'm like, you know, Trent is my guy. That's a good friend of mine to this day.

He was in Philly together. I'm like, I can beat Trent out. I'm like, I can beat Trent out. I can beat Trent out. That's my boy and I got a lot of respect for him. Shout out to Trent. He's a cool dude, man. But, yeah, I was just looking at teams around the league

and like, yo, I can get that spot. I can get that spot. And, you know, when Philadelphia came calling and I'm looking at the roster, I'm like, you got Donovan, Kevin Cobb. Kevin was the second round pick. I'm like, what's the need for me? And then it started to sink in that this will be a place where I can be the number three and I can get my legs back under me. You know what I realized that I wasn't ready? My first practice. Coach was like, I'm going to call a quarterback draw. Give it everything you got.

Man, I took the snap and I went through that B gap and I slid off to the right. And I'm talking like four linebackers just came in. It was three linebackers on the field. I thought it was four. All three of them just came and just tapped me at the same time. And I couldn't get away. And usually I could dip my shoulder and just with a burst of speed, get away from, it just wasn't the case. My legs wasn't there. So the best thing for me was what, you know, my guys, you know, Andy and, you know, Harry Roseman knew what was best for me,

Marty Morningwing, and that was to, you know, not start the season, you know, not start out as even a number two, you know, not start for another team, you know, be a backup, you know um you're not start out as even a number two you know not start for another team you know be a backup you know learn a game learn what we're doing now because the game has evolved two years you know you're elder and you know really try to get your legs back up on you and get that whatever you had left get that back yeah and Yeah, and I'd have to think, I mean, I know there's some numbers we could look at, especially with the rushing totals, but 2010 has to be the most in control you felt at the position, right? Yeah, Andy just made the game so much easier for me.

And all I ever wanted to do when I was in Atlanta, when I was running the West Coast system, was throw the football more. I seen Donovan threw the ball around in Philadelphia, and I was envious of that. I wanted to throw the ball at least 30 to 35 times a game, not 20 to 24 times a game and have more rushing yards than I had passing yards. How am I ever going to grow as a passer?

Some of my coaches had conversations with me about the reason that we didn't throw the ball as much. I'm like, I understand the concepts. I know the game. I feel like I'm competent enough to run offense and take advantage of everything that I

got to give while I'm 29, 30 years old at the time. And Andy was excited about that. He thought I picked up things very quickly. He thought I had the vision to run the offense, and he's seen it. And as I was growing in the backup role, I was starting to look more and more like a starter.

And it was just natural. You know, I just, I was a starter for six years and I just felt that way. And I represented myself that way when I stepped on the field and it was evident, you know, I was a natural leader. Guys gravitated to me and I was, you know, five or six years older than Kevin. So when he went down, it was easy for them to, you know, put me in a position. I always kind of liked Kevin and my boy boy Vampire always made fun of me. But he just couldn't stay healthy. I actually think had he not had the concussion issues,

he would have been able to play. But it still worked out for you. He made a great living. And he won games that we needed that year in 2010. When I got hurt, he went in and won like two games. He went two on one, was it was much needed his contract situation is one of the most absurd in nfl history when you when you dig through it i i hope he's somewhere outside never answering a phone with my pool all right let me do a couple rapid fire questions and then we'll uh we'll

bounce here okay first one better, you or Lamar? Me. I don't have a follow-up really. You want me to elaborate? Yes, please. Well, you know, I mean, look, I take no credit away from Lamar, but, you know, he still has a long way to go. But when you look at my highlights,

like, it's insane. It's sick. Something like you'll never see before. And I think because I was the first to do it, that'll always be in the front of people's minds. And Lamar's going to give us more highlights, more and more. So if you ask me this five years from now, I might give you a different answer.

I love when you're at your level and you just don't want to give it to somebody else. I don't think I hate fake humble. I can't get that up. I'd rather arrogant than fake humble. Although, I'd say Lamar has this one step

in very close space that's like at the goal line, just one step outside and then cuts it inside that is it's different than um i'm not saying it's just it's a different thing that he would do and he's an amazing runner but i played running back for two years when i was nine and ten years old and uh that's where i learned to use my vision, you know, in terms of, you know, not trying to be, you know, super athletic all the time, you know, let my eyes guide me.

And then when I started to play quarterback, I just did the same thing. I let my eyes guide me, you know, in the passing game and in the run game. But it was one thing that I would have loved to take away from Lamar's game and implemented into my game is the touch on his passes. Like he throws one of the softest balls.

And when he's throwing it to the tight ends, he make it so catchable. You know, everything for me was bullets and rockets. And, you know, sometimes I couldn't put the host on it. And it was nerve wracking at the time. Okay. So off of that, arm strength. So it's not necessarily the most catchable ball, but do you think there's anybody that

has better arm strength than you at your peak in the league today? Patrick Mahomes. Okay. Yeah, Patrick's arm strength is crazy and what I respect about what he can do is that he can put the host on it. He can give you the touch ball.

He can give you the sidearm ball. He can give you the speed ball. And that's not an easy thing to do, especially from a guy who makes the game look so easy. Who do you wish you could play for right now? Which offense? The Baltimore Ravens. The Baltimore Ravens offense is suited to run the football downhill

um and it's hard to stop a team when they can run the ball that effectively and then they got a quarterback who can run the ball better than some of the running backs you know much respect shout out to Mark um but you know Lamar's a running back in his right. So you got basically three guys that you can have in the backfield that can run the football. Two guys that's like running backs. And, you know, it ties the defense out more than anything. And that's why they're going to be so good for so long. As long as they can continue to excel in the run game, the run blocking,

you know, they'll be, you know, one of the top tier teams in the league every year for the next five or six years. Man, I've had, had fun watching you in the next chapters of your life and we have a lot of mutual friends and I know you enjoy doing the show on Fox with, with a bunch of them and hopefully we can do this again. You were terrific. So I appreciate you sharing the time. Anytime, bro. I hope you enjoyed that with Vic. can do this again you were terrific so i appreciate you sharing the time let's do it uh anytime bro

i hope you enjoyed that with vick i know i was looking forward to it for a while and i appreciate him being so forthcoming on a topic where i'm sure a lot of guys be like i just don't want to talk about this anymore playoff basketball is finally here and you can catch all the postseason action with buffalo wow wings there's no fans in the crowd but that doesn't mean the real fans aren't at home cheering louder than ever from the edge of their seat, and they can all get that sports bar feeling with wings from B-Dubs. Get boneless or traditional wings in over 24 of your favorite sauces and seasonings like Parmesan garlic, honey barbecue.

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You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Alright, let's do a life advice. I just like this one because it's a little different. I appreciate all the

lifting questions, guys, but just fucking download an app. I don't know how many more times i could say it everybody's different maybe you'll get there you probably will sometimes your strength comes a lot later in life but i don't i i love the stats but i you know i can't really i don't really know what i'm doing all right i just need to put myself through the physical exertion each day to i don't know it just, I'm not like messed up or anything. I just, I need the 40 minutes where it's going to be challenging every day. And once I do that, I'm, uh, I'm good to go. I mean, maybe not, maybe that's why I'm hurt all the time. Cause

I'm doing it more often now. All right, let's get rolling. Cause I got about, I have a little less time cause I'm, I time because I have something planned here. Okay, so Christian asks, Big fan of the show. Been following you since the Van Pelt days when I was in high school. Admired the way you handled adversity and bettering yourself. The question is, how do you get started on writing a screenplay? I've been interested in starting to write one for two or three years now.

Sounds about right. It's pretty much how a lot of it works out is the thought has crossed your mind for a few years and you buy a few books i make the joke that i bought the robert mckee storybook i think in 2004 the brookline mass barnes and noble i probably didn't start reading it until years and years later and then i finally once i was like hey are you going to be a poser and buy the next new screenplay book? Are you going to buy the new edition of Final Draft? Just start writing. Start writing stuff down.

All right, so I'll get to that in a little bit. All right, so focusing on uncertainty in your mid to late 20s, real original, I know, but looking at it from the perspective of someone who lost their parents at a young age like I did. I'm sorry to hear that. Aside from your idea, I have no idea how to start. I'm hoping that you'll be able to give advice where it starts that you've been working on writing yourself i hope you're well um

all right so cool um that's that's nice and i'm sorry to hear that um i you know depending on on how close you are and and losing them when you're younger i one of my friends um who i used to be close friends with but he lost his mother when he was really young. And it was unbelievable how he handled it. He's a really strong guy. And I just said, man, I can't imagine. I can't imagine. And he just refused to let it be anything other than, I know this sounds crazy, but he just forced himself to turn into a positive. He goes, you know what? He goes, I got to see my mom in her last days is my mom still and all the stuff at the end that you have to worry about he's like i never have to worry about it with her and she's in a better place and and

whatever so you weren't asking for advice on that kind of thing so i wasn't trying to get too deep with you but uh uh a friend of mine um we'll call him george he uh he said that to me a long time ago when he lost his mother. I've never forgotten because I was like, wow, that's unbelievable. It may not even believe that on the inside, but if that's what you're doing on the outside, good for you. Okay. So screenplay advice. Again, I'm not really anybody in this other than a guy that's had a few ideas and sat down. And I've written quite a bit now in the last couple of years since I've moved to Los Angeles. and sat down and I've written quite a bit now in the last couple of years since I've moved to Los Angeles. And I have the blind script deal with ABC, which is great. It feels like a very entry

level thing for me, which makes sense. There's a couple other things that are in the works, but that's kind of the way the business always is. I'm not going to sit here and talk it up unless it's real with you guys, because I just don't like people that are full of shit. And I always kind of regret maybe telling anybody about it because it feels like, hey, it's been a couple of years. What's going on? You're like, yeah, but I had to kind of really lock in and make sure I learned how to do it. So I would start with this. There's a lot of people that want to do it and there's a lot that are never going to. You're just going to talk and talk and talk and to really sit down in front of your laptop and

you're in a room by yourself and you're like, all right, start creating this world and follow through and write all the dialogue and know where the hell it's going. Because that's the other thing. Plenty of people, I do it all the time. I'm like, you know what would be a good idea is this. And you're like, okay, but where does it go? What's the second episode? What's the third season? And you're like, all right, this sucks.

This idea sucks too. all right this sucks this idea sucks too um but i've done a few different things where i've tried to write out just scenes and then build a show around the scenes knowing kind of deep down like where the idea is going and then when i did the thing with abc it was it was very structured in that it was give us log lines for shows and i gave them a few different ideas and they they picked one that i thought they were going to pick and then um they uh they're like all right now do every character that's a main character so there's like 14 15 characters for the first season of this thing that i'm trying to do and give us a complete pilot outline start to finish so the whole doc for that wasn't too bad it was only 10 12 pages or something and i looked looked at a couple of templates for it. You can find all this stuff online and you can find a million scripts online too. So, you know, I probably should have read a few more

scripts before I started writing my own, but I just wanted to see if I could do it. And I still don't even know that, you know, there's a chance I don't prove anything and it doesn't work out to the level that I want it to work out to. I'm,'m i'm aware of that i haven't accepted that but i'm aware of it but i would go and start reading i started reading some coen brother scripts i would not do that because those guys are just on such a different level and the way they write some of the dialogue it's probably gonna screw you up a little bit um think about some of the shows that are a little bit more like rules formatty and and go you know um read the breaking bad pilot you know because the breaking bad pilot it's an amazing pitch it's an amazing pilot it plants the seeds you understand

why walter white is going to end up going down the road that he's going to go down go and read that read some stuff that you wouldn't think of i mean somebody sent me a doc for the the drama nashville and they're like this is actually like considered a very good template of like how you should do some of this early stuff so you can do just like any time you had a writing assignment when you were in college uh or high school and they go let's do an outline and all of us would go you know i don't want to have to do all of this stuff well there's a reason why you do it because it actually makes the rest of the work towards the end a lot easier so go get the final draft app it's expensive but if this is what you want to do all of this stuff. Well, there's a reason why you do it because it actually makes the rest of the work towards the end a lot easier. So go get the final draft app. It's expensive, but if this is what you want to do, I mean, you're going to spend $150 in a worse way at some point.

So I would do that. I would read a bunch of scripts and then I would kind of go, all right, what are the five things that I would think would be an interesting story? Maybe you don't have anything interesting. I mean, not everybody gets to do this. It's the same thing with people that want to be on air. The rule used to always be just because you want to be on the air doesn't mean you get to be on the air. And with writing, you always have to realize how hard this is and how many people are doing it. And the first thing you have to know,

do you actually like doing it? Because I realized that I did. It was, it was something I could do on my own. I would chip away at it and you go, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, this sucks. And you have a moment where you write a few dot lines of dialogue. You're like, ah, that's pretty good. Like that works. And if anybody that's really established, I, you know, a lot of people listen to this podcast. I mean, maybe there's something here you're connecting with, but my biggest thing, what I'm not trying to, uh, portray myself as

this really established guy that totally knows what he's doing. Cause I'm still learning. Um, as I try to kind of change, not change careers, but, uh, picking up a skill in your forties or trying to figure out if you have the skill in your forties, hasn't always been the easiest thing. So, you know, like anybody really good writers do the exact same thing i mean they're all over twitter doing the same thing you write a few paragraphs you're like oh this sucks no one's going to read it i'm terrible what i do and then for whatever reason you kind of come out the other side and you're like all right this is acceptable or the great day where you're like this is really good and it's whenever i get stuck um what i'll do too is if I go, okay, the scene doesn't make any sense.

It has to be better. This is stupid. I'm probably a little bit too much like, oh, that wouldn't happen guy, which I think is frustrated. Somebody I've worked with on with some other project we have going on, like, oh, that wouldn't happen. But I'll write out 10 things. I'm like, hey, even if all nine of these things suck, it's almost like in Mad Men where the ad executives will talk to each other and they'll say, all right, give me 25 lines on Burger Town or whatever the hamburger place was

that they were doing business for a little bit later on. And you would force yourself to sit in a room and have to write down 25 lines. And the exercise of doing it, even though most of those lines would suck, triggers something where you start kind of tricking your brain into thinking that way and it's pretty crazy how how it can work out so like if i get stuck and be like all right this character sucks here what are 10 things this character would do that would make them more interesting and you know like all right that

sucks stupid cliche all right i already did that that's been done four times. And then you're like, wait, a time-traveling longshoreman? That might work. Don't take that. All right, so there you go. Please subscribe, rate, and review to the Ryan Russolo podcast here on The Writer Network. And remember, Sundays with Bill Simmons. Thank you. you