The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NBA Check-in With Royce Young | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

Russillo runs through some NBA thoughts on the Lakers, Heat, Raptors, Bucks, 76ers, Carmelo Anthony’s return, and more (9:10). Then Ryen is joined by ESPN’s Royce Young to discuss Trae Young and the Atlanta Hawks, a deep dive into Paul George’s departure from the Thunder, and Russell Westbrook’s move to the Rockets (32:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

okay it's friday and i am a little out of it and i will explain why uh in a minute here we got royce young espn i want to ask him about his visit with trey young and the atlanta hawks this is all nba basically today unless we get an update from Kyle. And then we'll be pretty heavy college football and football Monday and Wednesday. And we get a special guest lined up for next week. So keep subscribing, rating and reviewing the Ryan Russillo podcast on The Ringer. Shout out to The Ringer and all of their great podcasts. But yeah, a little out of it.

We'll get to that in a second. So Royce Young on Trey Young, not related. The breakup of the Thunder, Chris Paul, potential trade partners. And is this ever going to work in Houston? I have some Houston numbers. I'm on this Rockets kick locked in. I wouldn't be surprised if the city of Houston hired me to talk Rockets five days a week. Yes, I would be.

I'm kidding. But we also have some ads. So State Farm, they are our presenting sponsor. Today's episode of the Ryan Russillo Show is brought to you by State Farm. If you're fumbling with insurance, State Farm agents are here to help. Because with over 19,000 agents, they're local to you and available to help. Whether you connect in person by phone or through the State Farm mobile app, agents are here to help.

So go with the one that has coverage and agents you can count on. State Farm, talk to an agent today. Checking in with Kyle on a Friday. Did you go out last night? No, sir. Getting ready to go to a car lot tomorrow and pick out a brand new car. What? Used car.

Swear to God. Shout out CarMax. Shout out CarMax. What kind of deal are they doing for you? They dropped a bag for me, Ryan. And I'm going to go and I think I'm going to pick out a Mustang tomorrow. God, I love you. You didn I think I'm going to pick out a Mustang tomorrow. God, I love you.

You didn't see that coming, did you? That was, you're picking out a used Mustang. No doubt. That's what you've always wanted as a kid. When you first started smoking cigarettes. Yeah.

Around the corner. No, I had the, the Volvo drop top when I was out here and it's just, you're very approachable in a convertible. And just, it opens a lot of doors. So wait a minute, you're getting a Mustang convertible this weekend? Tomorrow.

What color? Black. Black. What year do you think you're going to be able to pull it? 2016. How many miles? I think it's about 30. Where's the car from?

Burbank. Burbank, California. 15,000 miles out of Burbank. It's not so much the mileage in LA as I've noticed. It's just the car waiting time. So I was nervous about my lease. I thought, uh-oh, I'm going to put a ton of miles on this thing. And now I realize I don't.

I don't. I'm halfway. Two years into my lease, I am half of the mile allotment i feel like you plan your trips i feel like that's why you try to hit a couple things every time you leave the house that's just my yeah if i'm leaving the house i'm making it a day you know it's like a full-blown day the gym is scheduled the ringer schedule it's all it's like a loop yeah right and right. And that's why, like, I have a big Monday coming up. Monday, I'm going to be in studio up there for Chris Long. I heard.

And then I'm going to, video, video, video. I'm going to be up there all day. Probably run up to the Vine Street Equinox. I'm not sure. Shout out to Equinox. I told you I tried to become an ambassador with Equinox. And the guy from Equinox who I met at this event in New York City was like, oh, yeah, whatever. And then I said, yeah, I'd like to follow up with you he was like all right no problem i mean seriously all i wanted was a free membership and then maybe post a picture once a

month but i also know friends of mine have gotten paid for it and you know look they're doing okay they're not what kind of folks do they want do they want um well this is what's great is i emailed the guy and then email me back he's like usually those ambassador things are for people that are famous i was like okay damn yeah it was always better fitness that stung okay the google assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car at home and everywhere you take your phone you can ask your google assistant to help with routines throughout your day say one command and the assistant can do multiple things. For instance, once you've set up a morning routine in the Google Assistant app,

you can just say, hey, Google, good morning. And the assistant can take your phone off silent, adjust compatible lights and thermostats, tell you about today's weather, your commute, and what's on your calendar, then play music or news or even play this podcast right where you left off. That'd be a... Hey, good morning, Todd. It's Ryan. Do you want to hear a bunch of NBA stats? That's coming up in a minute. A little help, hands-free, just say, hey, Google, to get started. So yeah, I'm hungover, but not in the way that the traditional sense is. I've had a little bit of an under the weather thing, but I'm actually psyched about it because I feel like it's my flu shot. So my immune system, as I head back to the East coast soon is going to be through the roof.

So I'm leaving this weekend and I'm excited because, uh, I'm going to have this pre... I'm not even that sick. I don't feel bad. I just know something's a little off. My inner balance just tilted a bit on its axis. Axis is probably the way I should have said it. And then I played full court. I mean full, full court hoops late last night.

And my knees and calves felt like somebody was throwing cinder blocks at them all this morning. So I did a little NyQuil last night and my knees and calves felt like somebody was throwing cinder blocks at them all this morning. So I did a little NyQuil last night to just doze off to try to flush this out of me. And then I'm going to go to the gym soon, Equinox, as a non-ambassador and sit in the steam room and just try to get a good steam, maybe a little calf work. But yeah, yeah non i didn't go out or anything didn't drink but i had like a weird i'm sort of out of it hangover this morning because of the nyquil and because of full court hoops new pickup game some famous people not a big deal don't ask me about it and um you know that's where i'm at right now kyle i really can't ask you about the famous people

no i don't think you'd get that excited I do regret though after playing last night a mutual friend asking if I wanted to play in 311's men's league and I don't know if that meant just their pickup game or be on 311's team which doesn't sound real but in my head and then I just wanted to be able to dunk on somebody and say I'll toss you here Vermont but uh that's never going to happen. And by the way, we know how LA works. I was like, where's the game? And the guys were like, Pacific Palisades.

I went, come on. Like, seriously? You think like 7 o'clock I'm going to be leaving the South Bay going, well, I'm going to drive an hour and a half for this pickup basketball game. I don't even know how real any of that stuff was, but there was an actual text that said, do you want to play in the 311 men's game? I'm like, well, yes is the first answer, but where is it?

27, though? I would have just moved to Pacific Palisades to play in that game. Like, hey, do you guys want to listen to some bootlegs later? I can't imagine. They'd be like, hey, we're going to throw this guy out of the league. He sucks. So my voice feels a little ragged, but it's just pain. It's just pain, tolerance, and deciding how I'm going to get through the rest of these next few days. But I think I'm good. I'm excited about where I'm at right now, but I definitely, definitely fell out of it this morning. I was like, wait a minute. what is this? What is this feeling? And here I am. So, I don't know, I shared that a lot.

That was longer than I thought it was going to be. So are you ready to talk some hoops, Kyle? Let's get it done. Okay, let's do that. But before we do that, tell you about the good guys at DraftKings. Let me ask you, and I'm serious now, so pay attention,

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That's code RASILLO to get a free shot at over $1 million in prizes with your first deposit only at DraftKings. Minimum $5 deposit required. Eligibility restrictions apply. See DraftKings.com for details. Royce Young in a minute. Let's do a little, I don't know. We put music under this. We're not going to this time because it sort of tails from the couch, but it sort of isn't, so I'm not 100% sure.

All right. I feel like I got to pull up one more stat, though. One more thing. It's like, hey, Ryan, are you going to include any tracking stats? Yeah, I think I could. I think I could do that for you. We could do touches. We could do post-ups.

I always love looking at, like, who has the most touches. Let's just do that because that's exciting. Who has the ball in their hands the most of any player in the NBA? It is a tie right now. These two players have the basketball in their hands for the longest amount of time per game. for the longest amount of time per game. Do you want to take a guess? Kyle, do you even like the NBA? Yeah, I mean, I'm more of an NFL guy, but enough that I could probably take a guess.

Trae Young? Trae Young is tied with Luka Doncic. How about those two guys? Linked forever in history because of draft night. Time of possession, Luka won, Trey Young. Both guys are basically right there. But Trey actually, by a wide margin, has an average seconds per touch number of 6.5 seconds. So every time Trey has the ball, he has it for an average of 6.5 seconds, which is way beyond anyone else in the NBA. So

Luka just moves it a little bit more. Not a diss on Trey Young. I don't feel like doing that. Okay. What I do want to do is this. So I watched the Sixers lose after I'm like, wait a minute. So I taped the games. I'm like, they lost to the Wizards. Okay. Who didn't play? Josh Richardson. What the hell is going on with the sixers the sixers as it stands right now are the fifth seed in the east a game excuse me a half game ahead of the pacers were six so you know that's kind of those top six right now bill was on with us on wednesday he says the top six the east better than top six the west it's actually not a crazy statement philadelphia's fifth in defense and then here's the bad news. Defensively, by the way, right now, top five teams, Denver, Milwaukee, Lakers, Boston,

and then Philadelphia. Philadelphia is 17th in offensive rating per 100 possessions. They're 28th in offensive rating in the fourth quarter. So like I see every time I watch them, whether it was when they almost lost to Cleveland, whether it was, I mean, just all these bad fourth quarters where I'm like, what is going on here? And then people are, you know, it's like, no, it is that bad. And actually it was worse before the Washington game where they just didn't play defense and turn the basketball over a ton of times. They were last in the NBA going into last night's game, fourth quarter offensive efficiency, and now they've worked all their way up to 28th. They're two and two in the four games without

Embiid, so it's not really that. Embiid post-touches. He leads the league in post-touches at just about 10 per game. I went back and looked at this. I did tweet this out this week, and people said go on a date. Al Jefferson, five years ago, led the NBA with 20 post-touches per game. So you could say, well, wait a minute. Embiid's still leading the league. What's the problem, guys? I know the three point verse two point thing I was talking to coach the other day who said you know our stats guys will tell us a contested three is still better than a two and I was like really I'm like I'd love to see the actual charting of some of that stuff but here's what I wouldn't want to deal with is Embiid in the post now the doubles can be bad and

he can be slow with his decisions and he can turn the ball over we all know this but if Embiid is leading the league at 10 but Jefferson led the league at know this. But if Embiid is leading the league at 10, but Jefferson led the league at 20, does it mean that Embiid is still getting enough post touches when nobody else posts anymore? You know what I mean? Carl Anthony Towns is a three-point shooting center now. It's crazy watching.

Now, granted, Towns has been really good, but watching the way he plays and how his game has evolved and he hits that shot, it's like, okay, so this is where you're going to be at now. And the stretch five thing is a very important deal. And Embiid is still taking some threes. He's at like 31%, so I don't always love him. He hit a couple ridiculous ones, I think, last night.

But Embiid at 10 post touches, does that mean because he's leading the league that's still doing this the right way? And it's always the constant spacing issue with Ian Simmons. Ian Simmons are a bad fit, even if you're still a Ben Simmons stand and you're never going to give in to this whole thing. All right, fine. But you'd have to admit the two guys long-term, I don't know that it's ever going to really work out. Tobias Harris, looking at his numbers,

he's at four and a half threes per game. He's at 30% right now from three. It's not his career worst, which is weird when you look at his three-point shooting timeline the the stock chart of tobias harris from outside but if you go back a couple years he was 41 with detroit he was 41 with the clippers he was 43 with the clippers last year he gets traded to philly he's 33 and he's 31 this year tobias harris we realize is an overpriced guy but they wanted to keep the asset especially with what they invested in the tobias har Harris trade and knowing that Jimmy Butler wanted out of there. Cause I just don't think he was that into the Simmons and bead thing. And it isn't, it isn't working out. Like whenever I go through those teams in the East and I think about their one through five, and maybe I shouldn't like the Sixers bench as much. Mike Scott hasn't been as good. Thibel, even though it's exciting

and the deflections and his defensive rating is incredible, he's got this net rating that's terrible that when he's out on the floor offensively, it just falls off because he's just not a great offensive player despite the fact he had some threes the other day. But this is what we're looking at. We're looking at a Sixers team that is middle of the road at best offensively, and then when it matters, in the fourth quarter, they're even worse.

And some of this stuff is a little broken record-ish. I still think they're more talented than everybody else. Maybe they figure this whole thing out or maybe they don't. Speaking of defensive ratings, the Lakers' defense in the fourth quarter is off the charts. And as we mentioned, they're number three.

Anthony Davis is doing some things defensively that are just stupid. He destroyed Denver at the end of that game. Now, Denver is very heavy pick and roll with Jokic and Murray. Murray's not the quickest guy with the ball in his hands. He's more of, I don't know if it's a Darren Williams thing, but it's an angle, body, hip and knee kind of deal. And when you switch into Anthony Davis, that's not a win.

That's not a small, quick guy versus some lumbering big guy, and there aren't a ton of those lumbering big guys running around today anyway, but Davis ate up Murray, ate up Jokic, and then he had a play in the Jazz game where he, I don't know, was it Ingles? It was on the left. Well, the way they replayed it was left side, so if you were left to right, it would be right side behind the three-point line. It was a white guy for Utah. And I did have a racist moment the other day. I do want to share this with everybody. I saw Jokic make this incredible read

on a backdoor cut and pass for Denver in that Lakers game. It was an unbelievable read. And then I realized it was Plumlee. So I just feel better sharing it so i'm gonna keep it moving um davis went to contest a three went for the up fake and then actually recovered he recovered while the guy reset himself i think it was bogdanovich i don't know ingles or bogdanovich i guess i I can't really. You guys will figure it out. And then Davis got back into

the play and tipped the ball from behind and it was blocked. It was nuts. Anthony Davis is my defensive player of the year right now. The LeBron sneaky defensive player of the year, that one's going to have to be explained to me a little bit more. I think what LeBron

is doing, which is really good, is having defensive bursts and good moments. But he's... And he shouldn't be on the best offensive player on the other team, the best perimeter player. He just isn't.

There's times in transition or assignment where it's like, all right, I got this guy. But they had him on Hernan Gomez for a few possessions in the Denver game. So LeBron should be pacing himself

defensively. But LeBron, when they had that piece of sound where he was going at, was it Mark Davis, the official, and they had a court side and LeBron was like, I know you've been reading. I haven't played defense the last couple of years or whatever. And the ref was like, I've never said that. You've never heard those words coming out of my mouth. LeBron didn't play defense the last couple of years. It's okay. It's okay to admit it. And I don't know that he's soared back to defensive player of the year standing, although that's getting thrown out there a ton. The Heat are real. And I know they and I don't know that he's soared back to defensive player of the year standing although

that's getting thrown out there a ton the Heat are real and I know they lost in Boston and they went on this stretch here without Dragic in Toronto where Jimmy Butler's basically run their offense or Winslow when Butler's not in there but they do have those guys in there at the same time so that means Butler again and Butler had an unbelievable Jimmy Butler moment in that Toronto game where that was a really nice win by them where he kind of in his isolation let Toronto get back in that game and then he scores the first eight points in overtime and then he was unbelievable against Boston but it was a really impressive Boston win considering the people that they're missing and that's kind of the thing when you look at Tatum and you look at Jalen Brown where you go, all right, Jalen got a lot of money. Curious to see how many teams, because the cap space feels like it's going to be limited this summer, how many teams would have made a shot at that.

Another team had actually texted me when I was asking about the Jalen Brown contract. I go, what do you think of that? And they said, well, I think it's more about cost certainty. Now, if they were to move him, well, now the cost is locked in and you'd rather have him long-term. And I was like, all right. But Jalen Brown has moments where you see why he's getting paid. The same thing with when Jason Tatum gets paid. Those guys are going to get paid. They're the interchangeable wings who, yes, I would admit. I kind of Jalen.

I had very tepid expectations. And so for him to be this, I'm like, OK, this is good. Tatum, I had much higher expectations for. I'm like, okay, this is good. Tatum, I had much higher expectations for. And even though Magic Johnson had him in his top 16, 16, a MVP list, I was a little surprised to even say that I'm cooler on Tatum overall from where I was at the very beginning of the year, but he still has moments where like, okay, all right, this is what it is. This is what it is.

It's just, if you're going to be one of those guys that could potentially be a top 10 player, I almost feel like we underrate those guys because if you're dropping 25 a game, that means like you're going to hit 40 sometimes when you don't go for 20, you know? And you're going to be consistently bringing that. You have to be the guy, even when everybody's loading up against you, to always be able to do that and not disappear.

And that's why the Siakam stuff was interesting in that Toronto game against Miami because he took one total shot in fourth quarter in overtime, whether it was going up against Bam or Derek Jones switched on to him after a timeout. Siakam, and I don't know if it's Lowry coming back and screwing up Siakam, but Siakam was not involved at all. And then when you say that kind of stuff, it's like, well, wait a minute, he's been really, really good. Yeah, okay, but here's the whole point. The reason we talk about the Sixers more is because our expectation are for the Sixers to win

the East. The reason we talk about Siakam more and it becomes more critical, it's because now if you're being mentioned as a potential MVP, we are going to be more critical of you when it doesn't look like you're at your normal level. And that's it. It's not anything specific, anything any more than with raised expectations come greater scrutiny. And it's team and it's player and it's never personal. Once you enter into that group, you're going to get talked about differently, and you're not always going to like it.

Okay, let's talk Westbrook. Westbrook is having, we're going to ask Royce Young about this, his worst season, really by far, in 10 years. His field goal percentage is under 40% for the first time since his rookie year. He's averaging 5.5 three-point attempts per game. He is at 21.6 on threes. He's hitting 21.6% of his threes,

which is the worst mark of his 12 year career. His free throws have actually gone back up from, that's one of those things where you're like, he was at 66% that last year from the free throw line. God, that's terrible. For a guy that's driving all the time and getting fouled, and then you're only hitting two-thirds of your free throws, he's back up to 74%.

Now, I'm not even going to talk traditional numbers because we knew the assist numbers were going to go down. We knew the rebounding numbers were going to go down, but they're still solid. And even with the staggering, he doesn't know what to do when he's back out there with Harden now Harden was I thought terrific in the way he was defended against Toronto where he's like all right if you guys are going to sell out to defend me here I'm going to make the right read despite what you

think I think about Harden's game and the things that I find frustrating I will never ever tell you this guy isn't a special passer and also smart at reading all of this stuff he just is and the other part about Westbrook is he's still about 22 points per game, which is what he was last year with less production because Paul George was in the mix. But there's just too many other numbers where you look at Westbrook and you go, this is not the absurd usage level of peak Westbrook, which is still the biggest usage season ever in 16-17 when he won the MVP. That's the highest usage rate ever. ever in 16-17 when he won the MVP.

That's the highest usage rate ever. He's not obviously at that because he's playing with Harden, so there's some traditional numbers that still look pretty good, but when you're taking 5.5 threes a game and you're hitting 20% of them, that's not going to work out. It's actually so bad, the positive could be there's no way he could possibly shoot this poorly the rest of the way, but he has been trending in this direction, but even this is still a big drop-off. Daryl Morey tweeting this morning after seeing a foreign tweet. He said, I assume

this is about us not passing and people complaining about us not passing. Well, you don't pass. You're 28th in assist ratio, and you're actually tied with Portland for the least amount of passes per game in an NBA game. So I don't even know what the hell that tweet's about. Phoenix from 5-2 to 10-11. That's my Phoenix update. Portland from 5-12 to 9-13. Is it because of Melo? Eh, I don't know.

They played the Bulls twice. They crushed Sacramento, who's actually been better, but they got killed when they played a big boy team at the Clippers by 20. Melo actually isn't doing that much different. better, but they got killed when they played a big boy team at the Clippers by 20. Mello actually isn't doing that much different. I don't know why anybody's necessarily surprised Mello is scoring. I think Portland was desperate for something and then desperate for forward depth because they didn't have any, and they guaranteed his contract for the rest of the year at just over $2 million. So it's kind of a no-brainer. It's just that in Mello's last few stops, Mello was just going to

do what he was going to do. And I don't know that it runs the course. I love the fact that he's back in the league. I'm not a nasty anti-Melo guy. I'm a reality Melo guy in that his Knicks years are probably overlooked and underrated at some of those peak years. He was amazing. He never really lost. Maybe I should do a deep dive Melo pod. I don't think I'll title it about Melo, but if you go through all of his playoff exits, he almost always lost to a team that was better than him. I think there's like one year where the seeding, he lost to a worse seed, but the team's records may have been within a game of each other.

So it really wasn't as bad as it looked. But at the end when it's like, okay, you don't want to play defense and you're going to slow everything down and you're going to ball stop. That just teams are like, are you seriously not going to slow everything down and you're going to ball stop. Teams are like, are you seriously not going to adapt to any of this stuff? Okay, well, we can't handle a guy who still thinks he's like a top five player who's not going to buy into any of the other things we're doing. So that's why he wasn't in the game. And yet to see him score, I don't think

this is some huge shock. The defensive numbers have actually gotten a little bit better for Portland. I don't know if that's because of Mello, but that was after an atrocious defensive start for them, and they had some awful, awful closing stuff. And really, when you look at the Mello assist turnover ratio stuff, of all the main ball handling players, he's not really doing it. And again, that's Portland, who I mentioned, with Houston tied for the least amount of ball movement, basically, in the entire league.

Milwaukee, Milwaukee, 19-3. They started 2-2. Could they be undefeated? They lost the second game of the season to Miami in overtime. They lost to the Celtics by a few, where the Celts shot 42% from three and had only nine turnovers. Took care of the ball, shot the ball extremely well, lost at Utah by three points.

We thought Utah was still good. We're going to get to the Jazz here in a second. But yeah, Milwaukee, I guess, could find a way to be 22-0, but they're not. They're 19-3, and that's great. They're number one in rebounding. They get to the free throw line a ton. They're actually not shooting it that great from three.

Giannis has taken about five a game, and he's at 31%. I'm still in a hold off because I liked that. He's taking that shot. Like he's forcing himself to make that shot. And I don't know if he gets to like 35 or 36 and becomes even more horror. 31 is not a great number anymore, but for Giannis, I am willing to give him a pass on it because it's still kind of new where, you you know it seems like it's hypocritical you're like wait a minute Embiid's that number and he's taking threes and you don't like that I'm like yeah well I just I just feel like it's different I feel like Giannis is doing it to round himself out where I think Embiid does it and it kind of bails the defense out a little bit there too and

by the way Milwaukee's net rating is plus 12 and they're crushing everybody so if Giannis is going to take a couple extra threes and miss them, that's not hurting them the way the Sixers have some of these losses where you're like, how are the Sixers losing to the Washington Wizards? Milwaukee's number one in pace. They're number one in all these different shooting numbers, even though, again, like I said, they're 19th from three. So some of the other shooting numbers are terrific.

The distance stuff, not so good. The roster, I'll admit, though, when I go through it at times, I'm like, I don't know. I don't know if this team is as talented. And now when we look at how stacked the top of the East is, it just feels more challenging overall, even though Milwaukee, as of right now, with the Lakers, absolutely blowing everybody out. The Lakers, actually, when you look at the differential on the point stuff, Milwaukee is way beyond everybody else. And then you have the Lakers, even though everybody kind of

looks at the Clippers and having different staggering moments of health and injuries as the better team in the West. But the Lakers, with that ridiculous number before the Denver win, it was they hadn't beat a team

with a winning record since early November. And that was the Phoenix Suns. And then with this whole stretch without playing anybody tough. And guess what? They go up to Denver. They were clearly the better team there. And then they just pounce on Utah like everybody has in this past week.

Bad jazz week. Get to it. And, you know, if they had lost those games, you could say, okay, well, the Lakers, look at the schedule. Look how bad the whole thing is. No, I just don't think you can do that. I don't think you can do that. I think it's diminishing what the lakers have accomplished here by just

saying it's totally about the schedule because they are scary and they're deeper than now watching it play out there's depth there with dwight's contributions rondo's contributions caruso who they should be closing with and they did until he think he fouled out in that denver game but um the lakers there's there's really nothing I'm not going to sit here and find anything that like oh well this is this is why this is all fake no it isn't fake they're really good they're better 20 games in than I thought they were going to be uh not that I thought they're going to be bad necessarily I just thought they would coast a little bit more in the regular season because of their personalities and that's

not been the case at all not coastinging. So Milwaukee, roster-wise, like some of the Wesley Matthews minutes, you're like, eh, and Brooke Lopez hasn't been necessarily great from outside. Middleton has. Bledsoe's been pretty good. George Hill has been pretty good.

But then you start looking at some of the minutes stuff, like DiVincenzo's playing 21 a game. Iliasova's down only 16. Korver, not really playing a ton. Connaughton's now under 20 minutes a game so I don't know how they're going to sort through the rest of those guys and honestly 20 something games in it doesn't really matter

alright so Utah let's go high water Mark 8-3 November 12th they'd beaten Philly Milwaukee at home at Golden State they beat Brooklyn at home they go to Memphis they lose they lose in Minnesota but they get back at Minnesota. Revenge game. That's towards the

end of November. Then they got back to 11-6, and they've since lost now 5-6. Losses at Milwaukee, at the Pacers, beat Memphis, and then this week, that Toronto

game was awful. They were down down 40 quick they're at Philly they got smashed there made a late run whatever like don't look at any of those scores be like oh it wasn't that bad it was bad and the Lakers score was awful 121 96 um Toronto into Philly's back-to-back I'm so sick of hearing back-to-back as an excuse. Like when you look terrible, you lost because you played terrible, not because you had to fly from Toronto to Philadelphia. All right, you're not going to Dubai

to play a day game here. So I'm the guy that liked the Jazz. I liked it. It was a no-nonsense thing. I thought that Conley could fit in and all this different stuff. Conley has not been great. And Bogdanovich has had moments where it's been really good for him closing the

games offensively. Mitchell's really just been the only one that really stands out, and Gobert has his moments, but Gobert against Toronto, they got Gasol. They made a concerted effort, and Gasol is not giving you a ton of offensive production in Toronto. They made a big-time effort to get him going early and trying to bring Gobert away from the hoop, and that's what teams are going to do against bigs, is trying to find a way to drag their guy out with stretch fives, and you even saw this with Embiid at times a little bit. Can they bring Gobert away? Now, their 10th in defense, not bad, not maybe the jazz standard that we're used to, but the offense has to be better, and I can't believe they're going to be this bad because, again, this isn't, oh, hey, the Jazz are fine.

They're 12-10. No, no, no. You are like Pascal Siakam of teams. I had higher hopes for you, and that wasn't the sixth seed in getting trounced in the 6-3 matchup against the Clippers in the first round. All right. Voice is fading a bit. That means it's a good time to tell you about DAZN.

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all live and on demand for one low price. And all you have to do is download the DAZN app to start watching. The exclusive home of Canelo Alvarez and Triple G. DAZN, big fights, any device, one price. Download the DAZN app or sign up at DAZN.com. Again, DAZN, D-A-Z-N, D-A-Z-N, D-A-Z-N, DAZN. Royce Young from ESPN, national NBA NBA writer, excited to have him on. I used to

talk to him a lot back in the ESPN days. Doesn't mean we can't have him on again. All right, so everybody knows that you were connected to the Thunder, but you have more things going on now, and your most recent visit was Atlanta. It's a Hawks team that was losing a ton of games, continue to lose games, and look, it's a young team, and they're missing Collins, who's maybe as important to their success as Trey Young is. But you spent some time around him. Give me kind of the one lasting impression, something that happened from that visit that gives you a sense of what this team is about right now. Well, obviously, Ryan, yeah, they, you know, I saw them break their 10-game losing streak, which was exciting for them to finally get

off that pretty embarrassing losing streak. And they did it against in just incredibly overwhelmingly convincing fashion against the hapless warriors, which was, I don't know that that was all that rousing. But I think, you know, one of the things about them is they are especially young. I think people kind of tend to forget that element about them. We get kind of caught up sometimes in the progression of young players and for players to really accelerate, and therefore their teams will follow right along with them.

And Trey Young specifically is off to an incredibly fast start for a second season. He's fourth in the league and scoring right now, um, really has taken on an incredible developmental leap personally, but the team is not following along with that. And, you know,

as you remember, Ryan, they got off to a two and oh start, which I know that's two and oh, but then there were three and three when John Collins had his suspension. Um, he's their second leading score, but I will say this about their roster. If John Collins,

and I'm not trying to take anything away from John Collins, he's a really, really good young player, but if he is so important to you that you fall off the face of the earth, basically as a team, that John Collins has that big of an impact in your roster overall is pretty flawed as it was to start with. And I think that they're showing some pretty obvious signs of a young team that is just not in a position when they are a train wreck defensively and they don't have any answers when Trey Young sits, you know, if you look at their on off numbers, they're like almost one of the best offenses in the NBA. When Trey Young's on the floor, when he sits, they're like the worst offense in the NBA. And it's like that drastic, um, specifically. So there are just a lot of problems with that team, but they are young. And I think

there's, you know, that's one of the things that Trey really tried to impart upon me. He grew up around the thunder, you know, and watch kind of the rise of that team, a young group that went through some pretty significant growing pains and then finally hit the accelerator and jumped into contention just kind of out of nowhere. And he believes that the, that the Hawks are kind of positioned to do the same sort of thing. It's just a matter of who's going to be that second guy that really takes the leap alongside him. And I did see Cam Reddish have his best game of his career so far.

It's one game, but it was a really nice game. You're talking about the Brooklyn game, right? Yeah, yeah. He had, I think, 25. Yeah, he was incredible. He was really good in that game. Yeah, right. Yeah, he looked good.

Okay, I'm going to hold off on my roster thought because I do watch them a lot. And, you know, when I watched the Denver game, when they went to Denver, they'd lost three in a row. And I'm like, what? Like, I can't believe some of the stuff Trey's doing. He's 42. Like, these shots are working.

They beat the Nuggets in their place. Like, I give up. And then they lost 10 in a row. So they'd lost 13 of 14 around that Denver game. And then everybody beats Golden State. And as you mentioned, Trey saying he watched a lot of that Thunder team as they grew up. And I'm like, man, I hope he didn't watch Russ too closely.

I've had moments with Trey where I go, this is incredible. But I don't always, I don't always like it's so early. Like I always feel like the timeline of an NBA player, like it's still too early to be really critical of anything. I'm just wondering like how, how real is this? Or is this another theory that I've had that I think we now in the league have a lot of high usage, heavy isolation guys. The league has gone to that to that hey put the ball in the best player all the time let him have every single decision how much of trey like trey has surpassed all the doubts so that part's great for him but how how are we going to be talking about trey in

like five or six years because i think there's a chance we could go it feels a lot like stefan marbury or the other side of it is yeah yeah, it's, it's this young player, part of this young core now four or five years in and they're a top four seat in the East. I don't know the answer. I have, I have convinced it's one or the other every time I watch them. Yeah. Is he Stefan Marbury or is he Stephen Curry? I mean, like that's kind of like, I almost feel like there is a little bit, no in between between them. And I think it's a great point you make Ryan,

because you know, there you don't want to be an empty calorie player. And there are times I think that you can worry that Trey young is a little bit of that, that, you know, I, I said this a lot when, you know, the Philadelphia 76ers were tanking and people would look at numbers on that team. And I said, well, this guy's pretty good. Or this like it's an NBA game. There's going to be a hundred points scored.

At least somebody's got to score the point. Somebody's got to have the assist. Somebody's got to get the rebounds. It doesn't necessarily mean that the guy is good. Right. And I'm not, and I'm not saying that about trade. Like you said, he is, he is completely put, put the bed. I think the doubts about, can he be successful in the NBA? Like the guy, you don't, you're not fourth in the league and scoring by accident, but the Hawks play fast. They shoot a lot of threes by, by just kind of, um, you know, just by the nature of the game, he's the most talented player. He's going to score points. He's going to have a sit. So the big question from there on out is

how does that influence winning? And that's obviously the next step for him. And that's the next step for the Hawks. You know, their draft last year, taking Deandre Hunter fourth overall, I think was an obvious nod to the fact that they need a player that can influence winning. I don't know that he was quote unquote, the, you know, the best player available on the board. I don't know that he was the most talented player, but he was an obvious need that they had. They needed a defensive minded player that could play multiple positions and try to cover up for some of the limitations of Trey Young and some of the limitations of the defensive ability that they have around him. So I think it's a completely fair thing to wonder, where does it go from there?

Because Trey himself is an all-world scorer. He's just incredibly gifted as an offensive player. He's done it at every level he's played at. And within the modern NBA, he fits beautifully. He shoots threes and not only does he shoot threes, but he shoots the logo three. He stretches defenses. He can play with pace. He can play with space, like all those types of things. He fits the identity of the modern NBA, but where does that next elevation come in terms of winning? He's always going to be a defensive liability. Okay. Like he's six foot one. If that he's, he's small and teams are going to target a defensive liability. Okay. Like he's six foot one is that he's, he's small

and teams are going to target him and they're going to go at him over and over again. And that's just, that's never going to change. He's improved. You know, if you talk to assistant coaches with the Hawks, they'll tell you he's gotten better, but like that's going from like a zero to a one probably. Right. Like, I mean, like he's gotten better because he couldn't get any worse. So, uh, you know, know, by the nature of getting a little more mature and a little stronger, he's going to get better, but he's just never going to be a high-level defensive player. So, you know, can he make up for it so greatly on the offensive end

that it helps the other things? You know, I talked about the on-off numbers. When Trae Young's on the floor, they have like the worst defense in the NBA too, right? So, you know, how can those type of things change for him? And can he be the type of guy that is making that sort of impact

on a winning team? And I'll say this about being around him, Ryan, for the week I was. You know, they did win the game against the Warriors. But I think Trey is being smart with this

because he's obviously quite happy with himself and the success that he's having, okay? Because, as you know, he's big on proving the haters wrong, right. Proving the doubters wrong. And, um, but he's also being very careful to understand not being too pleased with himself while the team is struggling. And after their loss against the nets, where they gave up another 130 points, Trey did a good job in the locker room. He answered like three questions, cut the

interview off and kind of took that West Brook Brookian approach to make sure everybody understood. I'm not happy about this. I might have scored. I think he scored 39. I might have scored 39, but I ain't happy. And he's got to be careful to make sure everybody understands that he's just not a guy that's okay with that. Yeah.

You know, his tweet, your apology needs to be as loud as your disrespect. Like, I get it. You know, I can't imagine. Like, this is one of those things that from the outside, as they're losing all these games, like it's really easy to just send a tweet and be like, whatever, dude, you lost again. You stink on defense.

As I've tried to figure him out and talk with other front offices, like, hey, did you watch Trey? You know, the guys that love him are like, look, this is the high ceiling projection that you'd have for him offensively. And this isn't a huge surprise. You know, one of the things I loved about him at Oklahoma was the shot selection was awful, but it was also because his roster wasn't very good around him.

So you're like, okay, what is he going to be able to get away with here? But the thing that I would always come back to is that his vision, his passing, some of the stuff that he does is really special. So I was like, you know what? Even if the shot selection stuff is, is kind of a problem, like he has a chance as a playmaking guard and his vision that, that he still might be okay. If the shot isn't working and the shot is working, despite a handful each game where I'm like, I can't believe he took that shot. And then when I look at the rest of the roster and this is

something, I don't want to spend too much more time in the Hawks. I want to, I want to pivot to the thunder, but I remember the first time, you know, I started going to camps and talking to front offices and the excitement of, you know, having guys try to, you know, give you stuff or explain things further. But one of the great things that GM said to me one time was like, you always have to be careful about a rebuild because if you have, you know, five or six guys that aren't proven yet, but are young. And when you're young, you just are expecting a max contract. It can really mess up the dynamic of a team so it's cool they have hunter they have reddish that they have herder from last year who's been hurt um and collins who at times is you know really impressive to go around trey it's like you worry how many young guys can you have all like one or two years

in all at the same time trying to figure out how they fit in not only with their team but in this league and then you add in you know vince who's out there getting some shots up who let's face it it hasn't looked great evan turner who's never been afraid to just kind of do his own thing jabari parker who's probably still convinced that he's a big time player in this league like it's a very odd combination of guys at different points in their career and it actually scares me a little bit about what they're going to be long-term because chances are one of these lottery picks, especially with the way this lottery has played out this year, but it's early. Yeah, that's a great point, though, because I think people do lose the fact

that when you keep drafting in the lottery like that, those players have their own personal goals, too. It's usually not winning early on. the true end of the team, right? Yeah, I mean, that's how it is. And there were questions at OU about how much Trey's teammates liked him, how much they liked playing with him because of the kind of celebrity

that he developed at the team. That team got off to an incredible start. They got off to number two or three in the country, and then they completely tanked and fell apart. And some of that within like, is that because Trey's success kind of had too much of an influence on the team? But some people kind of remember that weird game that he played. It's like, I think he, they beat Oklahoma state and he shot it a ton. And then he came back the next game, heard a lot of criticism. It was like against Kansas. And he

like took like eight shots total. It was like, he was, he kind of overreacted to that. But you know, I did talk to Marlon Garnett, who's one of the Hawks' assistant coaches, and he works really closely with Trey. And the big word that they keep using with him is they want him to empower his teammates. Like you said, Ryan, his true gift is his passing and his vision. And they want to make sure that they can take the unique ability that he has to stretch a defense and use that to then empower his teammates and get the ball to them. Because, you know,

it's a good segue into a, to a thunder conversation because you have too many mouths to feed as a young team. You've got all these players that have their own personal goals. Kim Reddish wants to be a superstar. Deandre Hunter wants to be a superstar. Kevin Herter wants to be as maybe, I don't know if Kevin Herter wants to be like Trey,

you're going to be a max player, you know? So, yeah, I mean, so fair point. But like when you've got all that going on, like that team dynamics, it can sometimes become a challenge. And that's where you lean on the culture of your organization,

your coaching staff, and you've got to hope that everybody can kind of get on board with that because, you know, you want to win, but those players also want, you know, max deals and shoe deals and a magazine covers all the same and trey is getting it right now you know trey you know trey is getting he just was on the cover of slam magazine you know so he's getting those things those other guys are going to want it too speaking of slam magazine um during during my that paul george fiasco that led to sam prestey indirectly naming me as somebody who didn't know what he was talking about um when you and i were talking constantly during that Paul George fiasco that led to Sam Presti indirectly naming me as somebody who didn't know what he was talking about, when you and I were talking constantly during that offseason,

and then Paul George, and you were right. You were really good on this behind the scenes, Roy, so credit to you to share that with everybody here. As you and I were talking about it, I'm like, what is going on? Other teams think he's gone. I think LeBron is like, he's gone. And then they throw him a party and then he stays and then we fast forward a year later and i had a source in toronto be like look i was just at a

dinner with some people that would know and kawaii facetimed one of them and basically was like hey can you get paul george to the raptors and the person called me after the dinner was like i was at the table. Like, this is, this is real. Kawhi wants to stay in Toronto, but he wants to play with Paul George. So how did this whole thing unravel Royce, uh, in your eyes and feel free to share any detail that you've never shared before? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Let me, I'll, uh, let me get my notebook out and, uh, start to go to the secrets tab and start to unload those. But no, I mean, look, it, it completely caught me off guard. Okay. Like I had, I think a lot of people that were around the thunder had a pretty good idea

that there was an expiration date on the team and that while they did resign Paul George the previous summer and they were thrilled with the fact that they were going to kind of take a deep breath, you know, kind of exhale for a moment because they'd had all these summers of uncertainty with what about Durant? What about Westbrook? What about Paul George? And they, they re-signed Paul George. So it was kind of like, okay, there's some stability for a minute, but all well knowing, look,

Paul George didn't sign a lifetime contract. And the fact that he has been very open and honest about wanting to go to LA isn't going away. And so they understood that they probably had one season more to really make a good run at it, but nobody expected it to, to accelerate to the point where Paul George is getting traded like that. I mean, I, I was absolutely knocked off my shoes. I mean, I never saw it coming. So, um, you know, I think that within it, you know, the way the story kind of goes is that, you know, Kawhi Leonard, um, put the, put the recruitment effort on, put his Nick Saban hat on and went after Paul George and got him on board. And, you know, look, it made a lot of sense for, for Paul George and, and that he'd had two first round exits with the thunder. You know, some people had kind of wondered, was it something with Westbrook and George?

I can tell you from all conversations I've had and being up close and personal with those guys, the Westbrook-George relationship was always on excellent footing. Those guys had immense appreciation and respect for each other on the floor, off the floor. George loved playing with Westbrook, played the best basketball of his career with Westbrook. But I will say that just around the Thunder,

there was, there was this unspoken tension within the organization as it kind of ended last, last season, just because of the way it ended, uh, Westbrook, uh, some of the relationships had kind of frayed a little bit. He'd been with the team a long time. There was, you know, just some kind of anxiousness and uncomfortable, uh, elements to the Westbrook relationship. And I think that kind of did bleed over to Paul George. And he felt some of that too, and probably saw the writing on the wall with the team that, look,

this is going to end at some point. And this is as good a time to get out as any. I'll also say that, you know, I think it's pretty, pretty fair to assume. Two elements that I'd say that are very fair to assume, Ryan, is that when Paul George resigned with the Thunder and he's having those conversations with Sam Presti and they're convincing him to stay, I don't think it would be too far out there to say that, look, Sam Presti talked to Paul George and Aaron Mintz

and said, if this ain't working for you, just tell me. And that's Presti's relationship with a lot of players. He preaches transparency and communication with players and that if this isn't going the way you want it to go, come talk to me and we'll see what we can do about it. And I think that's one of the reasons that Paul George had a very, uh, very strong confidence in resigning with the thunder and with Presti is that Sam, Sam's going to try to do right by you if, if you need him to.

And, and if that means getting me to LA, even within my contract, that's just a conversation you got to have with them. And so I think Paul George felt comfortable resigning with the thunder because he, he knew it wasn't a blood contract that he had to spend the rest of his life in Oklahoma contract. That's just a conversation you got to have with them. And so I think Paul George felt comfortable resending with the Thunder because he knew it wasn't a blood contract that he had to spend the rest of his life in Oklahoma City. And then I'd also say that when this was brought to Westbrook, it's not as if Russell Westbrook was like, well, hold on. If Kawhi's recruiting PG to leave, let me get on the phone and try to make PG stay. That didn't happen. Westbrook wasn't trying to keep Paul to stay. And part of that's because they like each other and Westbrook was going to respect

what Paul George wanted. But also I think Westbrook saw it as, look, if Paul George leaves, you know, that's, that's kind of my, you know, my open invitation to explore my options as well. And, and not that Russell Westbrook was dying to leave Oklahoma city by any means. He didn't ask for a trade. But I think that he understood, this is a good opportunity for me to have that conversation too, and I'm not opposed to that. So I think that all of that kind of laid it out on the table, and the Thunder, all beside it, Ryan,

Thunder were okay with it because they knew that it was coming to an end too. So you're telling me Westbrook, after the Paul George thing, it wasn't like, Hey, I want out of here, but like, what, what do you know about how that conversation play? Like, Hey, Sam Presti saying to him, do you want us to explore a way of, of getting you out of here? Or did Sam want to keep him? Or did Sam kind of look at it being like, okay, well, this is, this thing's falling apart. I mean, look, I think Presti probably, I think it was a very mutual thing. You know, Westbrook is a highly intelligent player and, and Presti and Westbrook worked

very hand in hand during that negotiation period with the Rockets, with everything that was kind of going on. Like it was like, you know, stronger communication between GM and player than you typically see when it comes to trade stuff. Right. I mean, typically a player's not that involved in their own trade and, and Presti and Westbrook were working very much together on it. So, um, you know, I think that Presti was on board with doing it. I think Westbrook was on board with doing it. I, I, I would, I don't know who necessarily broached that conversation first. Um, it wouldn't

surprise me if it was Presti just to kind of, uh, because once Paul George asked for his trade, I think Presti didn't kind of, you know, it's like they had like a, you know, the, the, the button to hit within the organization of like enact the plan now enact the rebuild plan. And I think that like, as soon as Paul George did it, they like, you know, flip the plastic cover off the button and they hit it. And then the next phone call was then, um, to move Westbrook along to Houston. And the Thunder have taken the approach with what they got back in the Paul George trade that,

you know, they're trading their present for another team's future. And they get Chris Paul back on a, you know, a bad contract and he's an aging player, but they also get some first round picks for Westbrook and whether or not it goes well for Westbrook and the Rockets, you know, the Thunder have their future first-round picks down the line. And I think you could almost say here, and if you wanted to be really cynical about it, Ryan, you could be like, maybe press the planet of the Trojan horse into the Rockets organization.

He's hoping that he accelerates their rebuild too at some point because now Westbrook is 30 years old. Harden is approaching the back end of his prime at some point because now Westbrook is 30 years old. Harden is approaching the back end of his prime at some point. And at some point, the Rockets are going to have to go into a rebuild. And Westbrook in some ways kind of accelerates that urgency to win a title. Okay, I want to ask you about the Rockets' fit there. But real quick on Paul, and as you mentioned, the contract after this year, $41-plus million and then a player player option for 21-22 at 44 million.

Probably going to go ahead and pick that one up. I've always been a Paul defender. It was fun watching him and Steven Adams against the Nets. No, no, no. It was against the Pelicans. Excuse me. It was a home game, and they were just sort of attacking. And I love that they got Shea Gildress Alexander back in that Paul George.

I mean, I think he's such a unique player. He's got a chance to be kind of special. I don't know if it's good or bad that he's with Chris Paul. At the end of that game, it was like, hey, I'm just going to – Paul was dictating everything that's going to happen at times. But when everybody's saying, hey, Paul's never going to put on a Thunder jersey, you never said that. I knew for a fact because I was just talking to people about it. I'm like, all you guys that think he's never going to put on a thunder Jersey. You never said that. I knew for a fact, cause I was just talking to people about it.

And like all you guys that think he's just going to bounce out of there real quick. And I even did heard that Billy Donovan was like really excited in a way to be like, Hey, like you run the show. And even though Chris Paul can be difficult, I think it's a less basket,

a less difficult basketball version of a point guard than Westbrook certainly was when he was there. So maybe there was, there was a little bit of an exhale from, from the staff on that one, but there's not many places where Paul fits because of that contract. But what do you think, like, how do you think that Thunder Paul thing goes and how long? Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, Ryan, and you know, the Thunder always approached it. They wanted Chris Paul, like, you know, they, they needed Chris Paul, first of all, to make the numbers work because they were trading a contract that was the same, right?

I mean, Westbrook's had more years on it, but it was the same number. And so, like, in order to make that trade work, they just kind of had to take Chris Paul. But, you know, the Thunder really weren't interested in facilitating it as a three-team trade. They wanted to get Chris Paul back. And part of that was that they wanted to kind of control their option, that they didn't just want to move Chris Paul along because, you know, whatever they end up trying to get for Chris Paul down the line at some point, and I do think that

they will trade him most likely. It's an extension of what they got for Westbrook, right? So, you know, that's kind of a classic Presti thing to control your options and, you know, exercise patience when it comes to it. I don't, I would be immensely surprised if they traded Chris Paul. I don't think it's really within the realm of possibility. And I think that's one of the things that Chris Paul understood. And that's what the thunder communicated to him is that, look, we're in a tough situation to just try to, you know, push you right on out the door. We don't want, you know, some people have made the assumption, Ryan, that the thunder would incentivize the trade just to get off Chris Paul's contract. Well, why would they do that? I mean, that makes no sense. You know, they, they're not, they're not

in a really in financial dire straits or anything. They can get under the luxury tax with a snap of the finger. Like they don't got to worry about, you know, eating some of Chris Paul's contract. It's not a big deal to them. And, you know, they're fine with having, you know, future Hall of Fame point guard in Oklahoma city, trying to keep the team somewhat relevant. They're a decent team right now. The building's full. People around town are still kind of excited about the team. There's the emotional connection of Chris Paul coming back to Oklahoma City.

He spent his first two seasons in large part in Oklahoma City because of the Hornets relocation, temporary relocation. I think that all those types of things, the Thunder were like, we're fine with keeping this guy. And I think that they will explore options on moving him maybe at the draft next year, maybe next summer when the free agent pool is pretty limited and Chris Paul could become an attractive, better player for somebody to go get.

But that's, that's the whole point. It's like wait to kind of capitalize on an opportunity when somebody wants Chris Paul and they want to come get him. I think if the phone rang today, Ryan, and somebody hit the price somebody wants Chris Paul and they want to come get him. I think if the phone rang today, Ryan, and somebody hit the price tag for Chris Paul, some press dude would be like, you got it. That's what we're going to do. But here's the thing I'd also say about Chris Paul that I think is important is that he has handled his business extremely professionally. And I think the reason for that is, Ryan, is that he understands that if he wants to get what he wants, and I think the reason for that is Ryan is that he understands that if he wants to

get what he wants, which is ultimately a trade to a contender, look, Chris Paul doesn't want to spend the rest of his career in basketball purgatory on a 31 win team. He wants to, he doesn't want to title. He's competitive by nature. He wants to go play on a playoff contender and take his chance at a championship. And if he wants to get there, he's got to kind of rehabilitate his image as both a player and as a teammate. So I think he understands that Chris Paul is one of the smartest players that's ever played in the NBA. He gets the deal here and he is handling his business in Oklahoma city. You talked about Shea Gilders, Alexander, Chris Paul is going all out to mentor, to support, to be a friend, to be a teammate, to Shea Gilders, he's all in on that. And every interaction that I've seen up close and personal behind the scenes

within the locker room, wherever it is, Chris Paul is a pro and he's committed. He's competing and any conversation you have with anybody in the team, they'll tell you Chris Paul is doing his part here. So, um, you know, I think that that's, that's made the transition a lot easier. is doing his part here. So, you know, I think that that's made the transition a lot easier. And I think that, again, it helps kind of increase his trade value. The better he plays, the better it is for the Thunder. And the better he plays, the better his teammates play,

which is better for the Thunder. Because, you know, there's a price tag basically on everybody on the roster. Okay, we're going to ask Royce a little bit about the Rockets here as we close it out on a Friday. But today's podcast is sponsored by ADT Commercial for Business. ADT Commercial serves businesses ranging from midsize organizations to large-scale enterprises. Think of them as a special team who has one focus, your business security. They provide a comprehensive line of security, fire, life, safety, and risk management solutions. Professional-grade systems for commercial-grade businesses. With ADT Commercial, every day is game day. Fortune 1000 companies rely on ADT

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That's good in sports and good in business security. Visit ADT.com gameday. That's forward slash gameday. ADT.com game day. That's forward slash game day. ADT.com forward slash game day to learn more. That's ADT.com forward slash game day. So now Westbrook is on Houston, as we know. I was going through the numbers, and I mentioned at the top of the pod, he is playing the worst basketball of his career.

And it's even worse i think than people realize they stagger him he's just you know i remember having this epiphany once where i was like how many screens have i ever seen russell westbrook set and we went on second spectrum no that's unbelievable it's four it was four over the course of a full season so no and here's the thing, is whoever tracked it, I think is wrong on two of them. Like that's always some of that stuff where we all kind of religiously recite it.

Just him bumping into somebody on the court or something? One was like, he went like opposite, and I don't even know if he was trying to set a screen. He just sort of was like walking towards another area and second spectrum. Again, this logging stuff, like when somebody sets four screens versus 200, if you're off a couple, like it doesn't matter.

But I went through it and I watched the four screens and I was like, oh my God, like two of those aren't even really screens, but I'll give them the third one. And it's just kind of a thing in your head. A little generous. Yes, yes. See, I'm so glad you said that

about the Westbrook Assist generosity on home scoring games, but I did dig into it deeper and there is a really nasty trend of home scoring giving its own players. Like there was something we dug into and I was working with the research department on this, but assist numbers have gone up while possessions in like comparison to assist per possessions, assists are outpacing possessions. And it's exactly what you said is there's, there's a group of home scorers that just give their guys assists all the time. And Westbrook benefited from that, but I shouldn't have ruled.

I shouldn't have singled out Westbrook. But yeah, I mean, it's not just Westbrook, but they make friends with their scorekeepers and they'll come over and they'll chat with them. And it's sometimes difficult for the scorekeeper to turn the player down, but yeah. Exactly. It's like, there's nights where I'll watch a game

and be like, that guy had 13 assists. No way he had 13 assists tonight. And you're thinking like, maybe it was seven. Okay, so I'm trying to, I don't want to do this thing where it's like, okay, whatever this is now, like, you know how I feel about Harden, you know how I feel about Westbrook, despite, you know, elements of being incredibly impressed by their talent, probably more so Harden because he's a more efficient guy. The Westbrook stuff is getting really bad. What do you see? What do you think

happens here long-term with this team? You know, I found it very kind of comical, Ryan, when the trade went down that a lot of people were like, okay, now Westbrook's going to change, right? Okay. Now, like he's still Russell Westbrook. Like you can't go in and completely rewire the robot here. Like, I mean, like the DNA is the same Russell Westbrook. And, and the thing with Westbrook is it's like this catch 22 attempt is that, you know, what,

what makes him Russell Westbrook is what makes him Russell Westbrook, you know, like he, and you can't rewire that sort of thing. Like what got him to completely exceed expectations and become the future hall of famer that he is are also the things that keep him limited in some ways that keep him flawed. And so like, you know, that's why everybody, you have to just completely, and this is like, this is the, uh, the rationalization that every Thunder fan did for, for a decade is that you just have to accept the bad things to get the good

things. And like, once you, once you make peace with that, then you can watch and appreciate Russell Westbrook a little bit more. And obviously Rockets fans spent 10 years basically hating the guy. And so they're going to have a harder time coming to, coming to grips with some of those things. But like, so like the recent games that he's played, I mean, like Russell Westbrook believes every shot is going in, even if he's one of the statistically worst three-point shooters of all time based on volume.

I mean, he's just never going to be a good shooter. He's had one good shooting season, and that was his MVP year where he was free to take any shot anytime he ever wanted. He didn't have to ever think about it. And so, you know, I think the things that have really impacted him, Ryan is that, um, you know, he has, he has become a worse shooter over time. You know, typically guys, you know, it's like a, you know, it's like your golf game. Like when you, as you get older, your short game supposed to get better. Well, Westbrook isn't driving it as far as he used to, and he's putting worse than

he used to. So, um, you know, he's. He's going the opposite direction right now. And then also, he's not making free throws. He's still struggling at the free throw line. It's been this weird quirk of his that he went from an 84% free throw shooter into the low 70s, high 60s, and it's been kind of bizarre, and he hasn't been able to sort it out. That's an officiatory on the court that he's supposed to score. But with the Harden fit, some of it was believed that,

okay, so yeah, they're going to wrestle over the ball at times. Sure, you can understand that. But Harden can kind of cover up for Westbrook's deficiencies while Westbrook can cover up for Harden. Westbrook's going to play hard. He's going to attack the glass. He's going to play with that kind of competitive edge, and that's going to make

up for maybe where Harden is sometimes a little bit chill on the court, right? And then Harden's efficiency in three-point and free-throw stuff is going to make up for Westbrook's. And look, the Rockets are good. But this is why I think that ultimately this isn't going to necessarily work out because Westbrook is going to remain Westbrook, okay? He's just not, it's not going to change. The times that you saw the best of Westbrook is when you put a player on the court, the one I think he accepted, the other guy was maybe as good as him or maybe in his subconscious knew that the guy was better than him.

That was Kevin Durant, and that was Paul George at the peak of his powers last year. And when Westbrook is your, when he's playing off that guy, like, man, you can see something really special. And the Thunder were great. They were great last year at times when George was the guy

and he was the identity of the Thunder. The Thunder were awesome. They were one of the best teams in the league. And when that flipped and it became Westbrook's team identity of the Thunder. The Thunder were awesome. They were one of the best teams in the league. And when that flipped and it became Westbrook's team again, the Thunder took on his identity, which was they were inconsistent. They were inefficient. You didn't know which team was going to show up every night because was the ball going to go in the basket or not?

So, you know, the Rockets got to somehow make sure that it stays Harden's team and they can encourage Westbrook to play off of him. But at the end of the day, he's Russell Westbrook, man. Like he's going to, he, he is who he is and he's the player he is because he is who he is yeah no all that makes sense and that's always always the thing but you know with with russ like i asked somebody about it and i said is there any way you could ever just watch film with him and go hey man everything was awesome

but these 5 30 footers were just bad decisions. And like, here's the numbers, here's what you shoot there. You know, here's the likelihood of this, this, you know,

these are all the better options. And the way it was relayed back to me is that like Westbrook would just look at the person and go, yeah, but in that moment I knew it was going in. Yeah. Yeah. That's what you tell you,

Ryan. He would say, he'd say, I've made that before, but you know, that's what I've talked to him about that off to the side before. He would grumble about people questioning his shot selection late in games. He'd be like, I don't say nothing to me when I've made them.

Which, he's made a ton of big shots in his career. He won the MVP largely because he made a ton of big shots. And he's going to sit there and he's going to remember those. He remembers the makes. He doesn't really remember the misses. And there's been a lot more misses than there have been makes yeah he's just not gonna he's not gonna go hey you know what you guys are maybe on to something i mean he's he's honestly one of the most stubborn athletes i've ever seen you were around it and to watch him off the ball in this houston setup

like and people he'll make a back cut and people are like see see all the spacing see you know i mean this is like when people try to argue that something's working because it worked once and you go well no i mean look he's gonna be out there he's he's an active guy but you know it's it's not a treat to watch harden necessarily off the ball even though you have to kind of show and pay attention to him the thing about harden that frustrates other players at times um is that when he's off or it's not for him and you look, he's incredible. You know, this like Harden was such a great passer early.

And that's why when they had that playoff run and they made it to the finals, they actually trusted Harden and initiate the offense more than they did Westbrook. Westbrook was playing off of him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was, that was one of the first things with Harden where I'm like, God, this guy's special. Like he's a great, great passer, and he remains that to this day and how smart he is with the passing stuff. I just think it's weird or maybe it's exhausting for him to try to carry a team offensively that when he's not in the play,

he kind of lets the defense know, like, guess what? I'm not going to be in this one. And I don't know. They're disengaged off-the-ball players is the only point. Harden, I can kind of understand it because you still have to respect him on the spacing, but when Westbrook's shooting 21% from threes, you don't have to respect that. And I have to ask you as we close out here because I'm going to let you go. Did it feel weird sending a bit of an anti-Russ tweet now after covering him so many years

when you tweeted out, Westbrook must be so confused why Steven Adams is not letting him have all of these rebounds yeah it was a great tweet I mean I will say uh I poked fun at Westbrook a little bit when he was uh in Oklahoma City and Russ would sometimes give me quite great that's you know Westbrook is like so many players that they will tell you I never read anything or I never know what anybody says and then he's calling me over to the locker after the game, telling me about a tweet he saw. You know, that happens with every player. They're all paying attention.

But, no, it did. There is some kind of freedom in knowing that you can kind of poke fun at some of that type of stuff. And, look, with the Russell rebounding stuff, I never denied the fact that he stole rebounds from his teammates. But I think that you're seeing that, like, the guy is maybe the best rebounding guard of all time right he probably is uh definitively and like it's a talent that he has some of them were a little less legitimate than others and i'm sure for him he was looking at steven going like wait a second why you why you fight for this rebound with me before you're supposed to be blocking that guy out uh he

definitely right he is without question one of the best rebounding guards i've ever seen so i mean i mean jason kidd would be up there um but i still i mean look sitting here right now just kind of thinking about it he might be the best rebounding guard i've ever seen but it doesn't mean that he wasn't also allowed it was like a team rule absolutely right you know a defensive free throw rebound but. But his teammates, his teammates are kind of like bluffing his stats a little bit. Like they're like, you know,

you're a great scorer, but like, we're going to give you, we're going to get you a couple more shots here so that you can, you know, achieve a number or whatever. I mean, it's,

it all, it all kind of works that way. Or like the scorekeeper at the, at the home stadium, you know, like they might help out a little bit. No, there's nothing cooler.

And this is not specific to Westbrook. Like LeBron has this gear in him too. There's nothing cooler than to sound completely dismissive of all the stuff around you because it just it doesn't sound cool to say you know what i actually monitor a lot of the content about me and i have some thoughts are you guys ready to go when in fact like when westbrook used to sit there and be like i don't care about the stats like no one has cared about the stats as much as you have and that's just the way way it is. Like it's, it's the give and take of being this famous and to be this much of a public figure. And I could also understand like not wanting, I think it actually makes you weirder without you realizing it because people are

talking about you all the time and that isn't normal. And that's the, that's the deal that you sign up for. You get the money, the adulation, you get to do something really cool, something like almost no one else could ever do in the world. But you also have this weird thing where it's like, hey, all these people are saying this stuff about me. Well, the cool thing is going to be

to pretend that I don't notice it when everybody knows that I'm full of shit. I don't know, Ryan. I like the idea that Russell Westbrook at the end of every season pulls up in basketball reference and he's like, how about that 30-10-10 this year?

Can you believe that? I didn't know. That's pretty good. I didn't know I was doing that good. He probably looks at the per 48 and is like, if I could only convince... Hey, Royce, where can we find all your great work on Twitter? So shout out for people listening. Pretty simple, at Royce Young

and that's where all my very, very stupid people listening. Pretty simple, at Royce Young and that's where all my very, very stupid tweets exist. So come yell at me. No, you're good. You're very good. Always good to catch up, man. We'll talk soon. You bet, Ryan. Thanks for having me on, man. Everybody have a great weekend. Can't wait to see what happens with the Conference Championship games

and I don't know, man. I'm pumped. I'm pumped to Ruiz, baby. And Ruiz, yeah. I'm pumped. I'm pumped to... Ruiz, maybe? And Ruiz, yeah. I mean, how do you... It's so frustrating. I don't know, but I've never won a heavyweight title, so I don't know if I won a heavyweight.

I would definitely go out a little bit right after, but he had a month to prepare for the first Joshua fight and he was just better. But you know, like, what am I supposed to do if Joshua beats him this time around? Ruiz looks terrible. I'm actually like, oh, Joshua's he's back. I don't know. I don't know that. I just, the Buster Douglas thing when Buster Douglas beat Tyson. And if you go back and read the Larry Sloman Tyson book, you'll realize that Tyson was not exactly in the greatest situation. You know what I should do?

I should do the Buster Douglas Tyson chapter from the Sloman book. Oh, yeah. I'm going to do that chapter. I'm just going to do that on a podcast. Maybe I'll do it next week. Wednesday. Because after you read that chapter, you go,

oh, my God. But it's all Tyson firsthand. It's first person, but written by Sloman. So I'm going to do that for the listeners. Because everybody should have, like, it's the greatest upset. All right, let's just say one of the greatest upsets, arguably the greatest ever in sports, modern era. And when you read about where Tyson was at mentally, physically, his activities alone, you're just like, oh my God, I can't believe it went 10 rounds or whatever it did.

So I just don't, I get bummed out because after the Buster Douglas thing, and I love the story, it felt so good for him. I had the Sports Illustrated Rocky Lives hanging in my bedroom in high school and, well, junior high and high school. And then, you know, the Holyfield fight, it was like, nah, man, I got my check. I am, I'm done with this, but fighting's hard. Fighting's really, really hard. And training is really, really hard. And that's why they say like, it's a lot easier on your way up than it is to stay up there. But still like, you'd hope that you'd have some sort of, I don't

know, everybody's different. I'm not trying to say, I know how any, you know, everybody's wired in such a different way and this has happened from the beginning of of combat where the guy wins and he's just not going to take it as seriously so we'll see but check it out in the zone i'm actually really pumped up for this fight and when you talk to us again kyle is going to own a mustang convertible believe that shit huh crazy yeah right all right man have a good weekend good luck you