The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NBA Draft Reactions With Bill Simmons, Raja Bell, and Kevin O'Connor

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

Russillo is joined by Bill Simmons, Raja Bell, and Kevin O'Connor to react to Round 1 of the 2020 NBA draft. They talk prospects, trades, the telecast, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

okay it's a bonus episode of the ryan russo podcast here in the ringer podcast network in the middle of the beginning of the second round we had phil simmons we got raja bell kevin connor and this podcast is all episodes brought to you by state farm getting great car and home insurance from state farm at a surprisingly great rate? That's like drafting a player that becomes an all-pro. The real deal. State Farm agents provide personalized service so you can customize your insurance to fit your needs, like a GM putting together their very own roster.

You need a team that supports you, and State Farm's got a great one. In addition to agency award-winning mobile app, helps manage coverage, pay bills, file claims, and more. With a great price and even greater service. State Farm goes from strength to strength. Choose insurance that always brings us a game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Here we are. Bill Simmons, Roger Bell, Kevin O'Connor, mid-draft reaction. It's the Ringer Post Draft Show here. I'm Ryan Russillo. You're going to hear this on my feed. We have Bill Simmons, Roger Bell, and Kevin O'Connor. Kevin and I did the post-draft show here i'm ryan rossillo you're going to hear this on my feed we have bill simmons raja bell and kevin o'connor kevin and i did the pre-draft and we were just about to finish up the first round so we'll get to some of the picks as they pop through i think

the first thing is i actually do want to start with bill because tyro terry still available the propaganda machine for building on work this is i have to i have to and then the fact that they didn't like it's knee smith at 14 i get but peyton pritchard and there's still another celtics pick here they're gonna have 31 players on the roster next year if they can't trade any of these guys so where are you at right now with terry and celtics well first i was watching my dude halliburton fall and fall and started really getting ideas around pick 10 then he goes to Sacramento, so he's gone. And then Terry started getting excited around pick 20.

And now it's like, now the hope's been beaten out of me. The Peyton Pritchard thing, I can't move on. KOC should go. KOC, where did he rank in your rankings? Peyton Pritchard, I had 33, so not super far off from where he got drafted. I'm just shocked. I'm just shocked he ended're landing i'm just shocked

he ended up being the selection there is a four-year senior from oregon i mean he's a he's a shooter he plays hard yeah but there's really hard bill there's better players available both at 14 and 26 and the knee smith pick like that guy can shoot but how much can he defend what is danny green with worst defense that's probably what you're looking at with aaron knee smith well he also had a broken foot so that part scares me because or like broken feet really What is Danny Green with worst defense? That's probably what you're looking at with Aaron Neesmith. Well, he also had a broken foot, so that part scares me because I don't like broken feet really ever. At any point. What did you think was the biggest surprise of the draft?

Because the announcer's kind of brushed off the Patrick Williams at number four. I actually predicted that, but I was kind of throwing it out there because I was just trying to zag. And that one, I don't know. I mean, the rise of Patrick Williams, a guy who didn't start in college, and now he's the fourth pick in the draft. Kind of amazing. I wasn't surprised. Two and a half weeks ago or so, somebody told me, hey, the draft starts with him at four. We mentioned it on the pod this week, and then Kevin and I did before. I thought it was either Denny or or williams to chicago that's what i had heard prior so when he went for i think it was shocking a

month ago but i don't think it was by any means shocking tonight raja do you have a guy that you kind of felt like throughout the process you were waiting on or somebody that you thought was a really good fit somebody that you'd watch in college now that you go, hey, maybe I didn't love him there, but now this makes a ton of sense? Not necessarily making more sense now than it did before. I thought what shocked me a little bit was Obi Toppin to the Knicks. Like, you know, I know it's a hometown kid and I'm not taking anything away from Obi. I think he'd be a really good player.

I didn't think the fit was great with the Knicks there necessarily, you know, with what they've got in the front court and everything. So probably the reverse of what you're talking about. I really liked him in college. I just think it was a great fit going to the Knicks necessarily. I think it's good for him, though, to have Tom Thibodeau there as somebody like a defensive-oriented coach,

like Toppin, there's no question with the rim running and the shooting and what he can do off the dribble as a big for you. the defense i mean that's what needs to get better for him to be ever something that's like a high-end player and having tibbs you would hope that's something that could help him along but yet again you could have said the same thing for tibbs with cat sometimes it's about the player and the person i think obi is a learner at least so i hope for him that's a match that can improve his biggest weakness yeah i think he's but he's better he's definitely a better fit with tibbs than than cat i think his mentality is is different right like he and to your point like he's a it's going to be really good for him in the long run to get with tibbs early so you develop those habits i didn't

necessarily see the knicks going there personally though it was funny that he was the guy everybody kept comparing to amara stoudemire and when you think of Amari Stoudemire you think of like the guy Russia played with hopefully he's not the Knicks 2012 version of Amari Stoudemire like the the just uh not really that effective version I actually didn't mind that pick I like the fact that he's a little bit older I don't think that they could get away with taking another 19-year-old. A little chip on his shoulder. A little excitement. I actually didn't mind it. The one that floored me was Phoenix when it seemed like it had really lined up for them with Halliburton

where you're getting this guy who could be in top five depending on who's mock draft you're looking at and somebody that could have learned from Chris Paul and now Chris Paul, Booker, and then Halliburton kind of easing in. I really liked that as it was happening. And then all of a sudden they went the other direction with somebody that I honestly felt like they could have gotten later. They're going to lose Aaron Baines, though, in free agency.

I've heard New Orleans could be after him, among other teams. So Jalen Smith kind of brings you that stretch shooting big ability he's like he shoots like a wing i mean at maryland they ran him off screens and handoffs it was kind of funny watching a guy that big uh being used in that type of role with him i like it i mean it's a little bit of a reach compared to you know like you said a hell ofurton who was on the board for them. But Jalen Smith, I think, can come into that rotation. You can play with two bigs with Aiton and Smith because of his shooting ability. Or you can play with one big and have him as a backup. I mean, they have ball handlers on that roster already. And you don't necessarily draft for need.

But I think Smith can help now with need, but also be a good long-term piece. I like the pick personally i give it a it's an and it was on the high end though so kevin's right about that for jalen i mean some people didn't even like him in the teens but he's he's more than just a pick and pop guy like he's surprising the more you watch him he shot 27 from three last year he was 37 and they would even do stuff where he would he he would hit some turnarounds at times. And you're like, wait, there's, there's way more to this. And I know people really liked him in the interview and everything.

So yeah, um, you're right. Cause the Halliburton thing, you feel like you can plug them into a different places. I think the biggest story so far would be probably Halliburton falling. Um, Cole Anthony probably going right around where everybody thought he would. Cause there was a chance he could fall. It felt like the biggest story is, is LaVar and LaMelo with MJ. That was the one where we were kind of all hoping that would happen. And now this is it.

We have LaVar Ball and MJ. They're together, finally. This is either going to be a beautiful romance or a disaster. And we're done between. I want to just see LaVar when he asks Jordan if he can get LiAngelo on the G League team. Right. Because that was a big sticking point with the Lakers that they wouldn't give his other son a roster spot. He just said, hey, you could do it.

No, he was like, you could do it if you wanted to. It's like you do a lot of things if you wanted to. But I probably don't want to give a roster spot up to your other brother who isn't as good. Raja, what's your take when LaMelo Ball goes third? Everyone talks about what a great passer he is. And then right near the end of they're breaking it down. other brother who isn't as good. Raja, what's your take when the male ball goes third? Everyone talks about what a great passer is. And then right near the end of they're breaking the down, Jay Billis goes, look, he's not a good shooter and he doesn't play defense at all. But if he works on those two things, I think it could be a great pick. I'm like, okay, shooting and defense

seems important. I don't know. That's, that's usually been my experience. Listen, the NBA and its fascination with potential, I understand it, but again, from a guy who had to hang his head on defense and being on really good teams and understanding what stopped us from getting over the hump, usually were the nuts and bolts of who you were as a team, and that is the defense and the ability to shoot the ball and things like that. It's always baffling to me that people will take the wild swing. Not that he was a wild swing,

but it's forgiven a lot in the draft process with this upside and potential because guys think that they can get that out of you. Shooting can be worked on, but defense and mentality, sometimes it is what it is um i actually i think he's gonna be a good player um but it's always fascinating to me because i'm a guy like we've talked about this before like give me a guy who's solid defensively a guy who i know what i'm gonna get out of him and i'll take that um but but potential is tantalizing guys are always gonna

take a swing at it with those types of potential players who people say they got to work on effort, got to, you know, try harder, whatever it is. Is there a guy that you've ever played with or that you've seen enter the league that had questions about him with effort and turn into a guy that consistently has it on? Because Ryan and I talked about this before the draft. Ben Simmons was one of those guys drafted highly, had those questions and became a great defender. Like, how many examples really are there? There aren't too many of them, are there? They're not a lot. It's a rare thing because I think motor and I deal with a lot of youth basketball.

Those type of things are usually innate. It's a hard thing to develop as you get older. Boris Diaw is another guy, I think, for me, when he came to us from Atlanta, there were some questions about that, about who he was and how hard he played and whether he could be the type of defensive presence and rebounder that you want him to be. He turned into that. DeBoer was an underrated defender, really gifted with the ball in his hands, could pass it. And those were the things he was known for. But defensively, he became really, really solid. And it wasn't the narrative on him early in his career,

but he kind of developed into that. So he's one of those guys that I would say kind of developed it, but it is rare. The Celtics took Desmond Bain and then traded it. So we're done with the first round. Dallas is on the clock at 31. Dallas is smart. Dallas does the kind of things that I like.

Remember me and KOC were driving the Luca bandwagon. They took Luca. The irony is that they take Tyrell Terry here. Is that actually – is that on Twitter that they took him? It's not on Twitter, but I would hope that that's what they go for. Given the way they approach players and stuff like that, it just seems like this is the kind of guy they would take. You get to see me flip out on camera.

It'll be, it'll be really fun. I'm sorry. So I took the driver's wheel from you. No, you just know, I know how excited you were about that. Number 30 pick.

Well, if he goes with Luca, he's going to be playing crunch time for them. And you guys have to listen to me say, I told you. So I told you so for like five years. So you better hope. No,

but you're right. I mean, it's almost likeston thing where i feel like houston's the best instagram filter that you could have it's a basketball player because all of a sudden you're like yeah you know do you want to give daniel house 10 million a year look at all those shots you're like well all of them and daniel house ended up turning into a nice little rotation player before he got a little too thirsty down there in the bowl but you you look at any shooter any shooter now with donchage because there's so many similarities with what they do and how houston ran the hardened centric offense and even better so because they didn't have like an inefficient westbrook messing it all up so i look if it ends up being a shooter here the shooter's probably going to work well with what

they do i want to get back to that effort thing though because i had a story on topping because with with tibideau in new york and Raj, you're going to love this, when I was asking about Toppin and how bad he was defensively, I was hearing that the Dayton guys were telling scouts, well, he just didn't, he was bored. I would love for Toppin to tell Tibbs, you know what? Look, I'm ready to play defense. I just was bored for the last couple years.

So let's go get him. Let's get some stops. Yeah, walk into his office on day one and say that see how that goes over we got news dallas is picking tyrell terry and sean's just tweeted it out yep they're taking them looking forward to saying we told you so bill i'm looking forward to it tyrell terry at number 31 this is perfect perfect. It's so funny. Of course, Precious was going to go to the Heat. We were joking about,

me, KFC, and Verno were joking about that. This is the perfect Heat guy. They're going to take him. He's going to be great on the Heat. And Tyrell Terry in Dallas, it's perfect. He's going to end up having a huge impact on that team. And everybody's going to go, wow, how did he fall to 31? You know how they fell to 31? Because these teams are fucking morons. That's how they

fell to 31. Because every year they stare at these guys for six months and they overthink it and they miss basic fucking skills like shooting. And he can handle. Yeah. And feel and they trust him. Oh, shooting. Oh, it turns out that's important.

You know, and Seth Curry bounces around for four years and then all of a sudden he's in the playoffs playing 35 minutes game because he can shoot because shooting matters and like you think about you mentioned seth as good as seth was in that situation tyrell terry is somebody who can do more playmaking for you he can be a better seth nah take it easy easy on stuff kfc wrote a five he wrote a 5 000 word feature for us that was basically like tyrell terry has a huge chip on his shoulder. Like Roger, those are your guys.

The guys are like, Oh, you're counting me out. Now he falls to 31. It's like, Oh really? I'm not a first runner. I'm going to shoot 15,000 threes today. I don't shoot 20,000 tomorrow. This is the kind of guy he is. It's perfect for him.

Not only is it, it's a, it's perfect. You know, there's, there are guys in the draft that go to that, like places that are perfect for them. Like you can't see it necessarily on draft night. You're probably hoping that you're in that first round and that your name's going to get called and everything is what you had dreamed of. And then you get picked here,

and in two years you wind up saying to yourself, Jesus Christ, that was the best thing that ever happened to me. And going to a place like Dallas for him is going to be a fantastic fit for him as the player. I think so, too. I mean, this is ideal. Luka Doncic. I mean, think about him.

Obviously, he's going to handle the ball primarily. But the ideal role for Luka is having a secondary guy that can push him off ball a little bit more, add a little bit more variety in the half court, especially get deeper in the playoffs. Can't just have one guy do it. You need to have two or three guys, especially in the modern league. And for Dallas to have Tyrell Terry in there to me, I mean, perfect fit for him. Just like you said, Raja and pretty ideal for what Dallas needs and they're building forward to. I love this.

This is a blessing in disguise for him to fall to 31. Is there any other contender who picked up somebody who could play for crunch time for them in a round two or round three today? Precious. So you think Precious could be like the seventh man on the Heat potentially? I don't really see why not, especially when we looked at them. As great as their East run was, I feel like the one flaw, if you're a Heat fan and you're thinking, hey, we have a chance to get back to the finals, and I don't think it'd be fair to rule them out, I think the East is going to be a little bit more solid. Of course, that depends on what happens with Brooklyn at the top.

If the Sixers look better, if Doc can unlock those guys a little bit, and Toronto will probably just find a way to be competitive. But the West is so big now. Those good teams are bigger. It happened quickly. And when it was just bam, and they tried Myers Leonard for a stretch. Now, it seems weird to play two non-shooters now at the same time. And even Precious, it's not like he's this straight five. Would you put him at four?

Like, I can understand sometimes combining those two guys where it wouldn't make a ton of sense, but I could also see some rotations where they try to figure out, you know, how to use him. Because I just think his energy and his effort and one of those guys, it's just a pain in the ass to have out on the court. You know, Raja, those guys don't get any of the love, but you just know there's certain people that just,

it's not even getting rebounds, but making rebounds tougher. You know, Robin Lopez is somebody that always comes up whenever we've talked about that, and I think that's something that is kind of hard to figure out. You usually don't write down in your scouting notebook, just difficult to deal with because we're focused on all the other stuff. Yeah, no doubt. And I don't want to say it's rare,

but it is sort of rare that you get a guy that comes out that is ball-dominant, going to do a lot of the playmaking, going to be the face of the franchise, and you're talking about them playing major minutes in a playoff run the next year, like their rookie year. It's generally a guy like you're talking about, right? Nuts and bolts, like sees a need, feels a need, can go out there and just kind of do some of the fringe things that are going to really be integral to supporting the stars that you already have in place, right? It could develop into a star, but early provides a real presence, either defensively or rebound in the ball or something that just means

something to the winning culture that you already have established in the building it can support your stars and he fits that bill it's true it feels destined to go to miami i mean it's just a perfect culture fit perfect uh system fit and for him like the weaknesses he has like decision making you know jumping for pump fakes and some of the stuff like that. It's the type of thing where I think Miami can get a lot of that out of him and iron out those mistakes and iron out those flaws and then you're going to see a guy who compliments Bam

at a really exciting level with their defensive versatility with size. It's going to be tough to go against those dudes if you're able to get Precious Achua to be playing smart mental basketball on top of his just insane effort level, that's going to be really fun. Ryan,

can we do guy you felt worse for tonight just for the fit that he was walking into? Cause for me, it's a Cora. I really liked him. And he goes to this Cleveland team. Now that's just like the Island of misfit toys, right?

They have two, two point guards who aren't point guards. They have the twin towers of drumming and love during an era where nobody wants to play two bigs at the same time. Nobody can play defense at all in the entire team. And then he goes in and it's like, hey, cool. So these two guards are going to have the ball a lot. And you're going to be the only guy who can guard anyone on our team. So every night you're going to have to guard the other team's best guy. And, oh, and by the way, if you ever want to jump to the basket,

there's going to be two guys blocking the paint on your team the entire time. So good luck. Have fun. I felt the worst for him. Yeah, it's tough to top that one. Oh, and you're in Cleveland. I left out that part. No, the Cleveland part of it is just so many of these rosters.

I don't know. I mean, look, I'll admit I had a Trey Young joke when he tweeted at a Congo being like, I hope you're ready for some alley-oops. It's like, I hope you're ready to watch a lot of dribbling, too. I hope you're ready to be waved out of the paint so I can cook. Right. Be like, I'm going to have the best season tickets in the league. So, you know, but I held back.

I held back. I wouldn't do that anyway. Good. Smart. I would just share it with you guys on a stream. Well, Trae Young's dad has come at you. You don't want to feud with Trae Young's dad. Yeah, but see, Trae Young's dad didn't understand the point that I was making.

He, it all started, it's Perk's fault. But see, Trey Young's dad didn't understand the point that I was making. It's Perk's fault. Kendrick Perkins, who hates Steph, was shitting on Steph by saying, look at what Steph was his first two years in the league, and look at what Trey Young has done. And I'm like, okay, because that's the same comparison. Mark Jackson had Steph sitting in the corner.

Well, Matt J. Ellis was. If you had decided to let Steph just have the ball every possession and just pull up from 30 and do whatever he wanted for 40 minutes a night, Steph would have put up big numbers, but then it turned into, why are you dumping on Trey for wanting to be like Steph? I'm like, that's not what I did. So anyway,

we'll work it out one day with, uh, with Ray. Cause I, I have no, it's not personal, but I can understand. I hope,

I hope Trey passes to him a couple times. I was hoping the Celtics were going to trade up and get him, to be honest. How many guys did you have? Did you have 15 guys you hoped the Celtics were going to take at one point tonight? You've got a lot of guys. Conway was the guy

that I thought we could trade up and he could actually play for us. Then Halliburton started falling and I lost my mind because I thought he was going to go to trade. I didn't think he was going to fall out of the top eight. So, you know, we should have known that this draft was going to get a little goofy, but it definitely did.

Took a while to get goofy though. I felt pretty straight up top. I mean, yeah. Oh, no doubt about it. Middle of the first round, starting really with, I think Cole, Aaron E Smith and Cole mean, besides Patrick Williams. Yeah, no doubt about it. Middle of the first round, starting really with, I think, Aaron Neesmith, then Cole Anthony, then Isaiah Stewart.

That's when things started to get weird. Yeah. Can I ask you a Neesmith question, actually, Kevin? Because everybody talks about that he doesn't have a handle or there's not enough of a handle. First of all, as a shooter,

there's different shooters. And Raja, you jump in here, too, whenever. There are guys that can hit the shot from the spot that they're comfortable from and then there's guys that are comfortable from multiple spots and the second group is smaller i think neesmith actually is comfortable from all sorts of different places and i actually found vandy would run stuff and they'd run it and then it would just neesmith would have to come back and take it from scotty pippen jr and then start all over again and he would have to handle and create and i think i

honestly feel like a lot of evaluations he didn't have enough credit he it wasn't like he was just zinging all over the place catching it he would have to bail them out of a lot of possessions too and the fact that he shot it the way he shot it i was really impressed with that yeah i think he's a really talented offensive player no doubt about it from the perimeter i'm not so sure that you're going to get like the ability to drive to the rim or draw falls or make plays off the dribble but he can at least be one of it's like we talked about earlier ryan there's guys who you don't want taking three dribbles with him you can get one or two really good dribbles and maybe a third sometimes he's not a creator but he can create for himself a little bit on the perimeter

playing off of others for him it's really about like what level does he reach defensively he was an average college defender. And for the guy with his size and his length, you would hope that he would grow into being kind of something more. But, you know, I mean, wingspan is it? What was your wingspan, Raja? What is it now? Does the wingspan decline?

The wingspan doesn't. The height does. Wingspan, I think, I was about 6'8". And how tall are you? 6'5". Yeah, so that's like the perfect. You're the prototype. Yeah.

So you want to be like, I actually think, you know, on a team like the Celtics, you know, when you got creators to some degree and Jalen Brown

and Tatum and Kemba. Yeah, you can have, you know, a guy that doesn't necessarily, he's not a pure creator, but can really shoot the ball and knock it down

from, to your point, a variety of different spots. It's not just a one spot kind of guy. And I think culturally, like they really do, Brad Stevens hangs his hat on defense. So another guy who, if you go in there, you've got the frame, you've got kind of the tools to work with it. If you buy in culturally with a good group of vets, you know, you can be productive there because space is critical to those other guys we just mentioned in their ability to play create. So if you can sit out there and knock down jump shots and then be serviceable defensively as a rookie, there could be real minutes there. It's kind of like, you know, today, just now, Josh Richardson was traded

by the Sixers to the Mavericks at a 36th pick with Richardson for Seth Curry. And Richardson's kind of one of those guys that you're talking about. Did that just happen? That just happened now, according to Shams and Woj and all the reporters. So Tyrell Terry moves into the Seth Curry spot. Into the Seth Curry spot, right into it. But Richardson is one of those types of guys that we're sort of talking about here. I think you would want Neesmith to grow into that type of role and hopefully get better on defense maybe not a guy who's handling a lot for you but can here and there uh that that would be the long-term goal for him but i'm not so sure that the ball

handling ability is there but if it is it's never going to be at a high level he's always going to be a shooter for you and if he can shoot a heck of a lot better than richardson while being good on defense that'd be a really nice player but there's a lot of questions though I didn't mind that pick I actually think he's a really good character guy along the lines of Jalen Brown like there there is like something I think Halliburton's like that too I think there are a couple guys in this draft who had a whiff of like the Jalen Brown this guy off the court could also have a real impact on a franchise. I just thought once Halliburton got to 10 for, for when they needed another impact guy, I think Halliburton is going to come back to haunt five or six of those teams, you know,

and I love going on the record after these drafts. I think Halliburton is going to be the guy from this draft that just, we're going to look back and go, what the fuck? How did that guy go 12? There's a guy like that every year. And I think he's going to be the guy from this draft that just we're going to look back and go, what the fuck? How did that guy go 12? There's a guy like that every year. And I think he's going to be the guy this year. And I don't mind some of the picks, but I thought that was stupid. And I know KFC loves Killian Hayes. But to me, Halliburton versus Killian Hayes. I just like Halliburton more. I think he's a safer pick.

Halliburton's more ready to play. Yeah. I mean, I'll give you that for sure. I think with Killian Hayes, he still needs to get better. You know, he needs to get just more matured on the court and he's to improve his jumper with tyree with uh halliburton that's a nice fit with the erin fox you have speed you have feel it's a contrasting styles and and those guys can complement each other quite well with the erin fox i'm excited stable franchise i mean you don't hear a lot of guys say, I love Sacramento's great for me.

That's what we heard. We need to settle down here. There were a few highlights in the broadcast. My favorite so far is R.J. Hampton's father yelling, fuck, and then taking the Milwaukee Bucks hat and chucking it behind the couch. And then I don't think they realized that they were also not going to New Orleans.

And then I think it's a good spot for RJ Hampton, even though it went later than he thought he would go. Raja, do you know immediately when a rookie comes in? Like how many times have you, give me a story about being right. And if there are times where you were wrong, because all of you guys are wired the same way,

I feel like where you'll know so soon, you're like, this pick is going to suck and name names. All right. He's like, Earl pick is going to suck. And name names. All right. He's like, Earl Clark. No. Yeah, no. They both happen to kind of be in Utah.

Gordon Hayward, when they picked, when the Jazz picked Gordon. You just didn't like him. You didn't see it. No, I'm just kidding. No. I, like, I, you know, I'd watched him. I didn't know he was going to be as good as he was, but I knew he was going to be a really, really solid, good pro.

From when they picked him from watching him at Butler. And then from like the first days of training camp, when, you know, you run up on a guy, he's a, he's young, he's wet behind the ears and you try him real quick with like a quick, you know, forearm shiver to the chop. You try to bully him. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, listen, we're, we're fighting for a spot, but no Gordon, Gordon didn't back down. He wasn't an obnoxious rook, but he was certainly letting

you know that he was not intimidated by the situation. So you, you knew Gordon was going to be good. And then on the flip side of that same franchise, um, they drafted Kirk Snyder the first time I was there and it was a pretty high pick. Um, and I just didn't, you know, I didn't love that. I didn't know a lot about him in college, but from what I had understood, I had my concerns and that one didn't work out for the Jazz. That was diplomatic, Raja. I appreciate that. Yeah, that was the nicest way.

Raja treats training camp like it's season two of Oz. Like there's a new character, new character in the prison. We got to test this guy right away. And and listen i was a terrible teammate in that regard um coming out of the shoot because i was trying to win like i was trying to prove that it was still my spot but but but gordon wound up being look you always have respect for a guy like that a rook that comes in like he's not obnoxious he's cool with being a rook he's not going to let you push him over so he knows that like he belongs there. But there's still some humility.

And so like, I loved Gordon. Gordon was one of my favorite Rooks, but, but, you know, you try him to see what's up. Like you need to know who you're in a foxhole with. Add a little excitement to your sports watching experience by betting on all the action on FanDuel Sportsbook this football season. There's a reason why FanDuel is America's number one sportsbook. This isn't in the script, but the app and the website are so easy to use and navigate. So that's probably why it's number one. Their app is simple to use. They've got great odds on all

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Yeah, Bill is back. So go ahead. Maybe you'll get a pick-em in that one. Depends. Maybe an announcement of some stuff. By the way, New England is just all run first on that Cook index that we like with Sando, running the football where the score is not impacting your play calling first 28 minutes of the game. New England is just running the football now. They're just running it all the time all right so if

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Colorado, 1-800-BETS-OFF. Iowa, 1-800-9-WITH-IT. Indiana, 1-800-GAMBLER. New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, red line line 1-800-889-9789 tennessee or visit 1-800-gambler.net that's 1-800-gambler.net west virginia can we talk about how we had so many months to stare at this draft and i know koc just stared at it like uh for hundreds of hours almost too much time. In a way, it was like, hey, this is actually cool.

I have a real feel for this draft. But as we headed into the last week, I said, I don't know. Edwards might drop. Lamella might drop. Wiseman could go to one. And basically the whole time, what we thought the 1-2-3 was, ended up being the 1-2-3.

So now I'm thinking we should just keep it the way it was with the draft just like have it right after the final so be it like nothing really changed in the mocks for four months ago right koc not really i mean what's funny is just this past week with all these potential trades up top you know here about two and four flip in or three and one and then none of it happens just nothing nothing yeah i gotta tell you this there's a moment where i go holy shit am i bored this is your favorite thing in the world and there was there was a little stretch where i went well let's do it am i go let's it's time do it let's do the thing with the covid restrictions you knew the broadcast was going to be challenging and they really leaned in on the malika um andrew's pieces where she was

doing a lot of the family stuff which everybody really seems to like but i don't know how we've gotten so far away from draft night where everybody in studio like those should be discussions hey this is what i like about this pick this is what i don't like about this pick there's a better guy on the board hey you think he could shoot hey i don't think he's good enough of a shooter i think that's what basketball fans want if you're going to sit here and watch this thing for four hours, I know that's what I want. Maybe I'm the wrong audience, but there's been this GMA-ing of all of these broadcasts now

that I don't understand how that happened. And when you go back to the NFL draft. We have a network for it. It's called ABC. Yeah, and that's what. Put that telecast on there. Let me watch the telecast that tells me what trades just happened. Do remember the nfl draft it was like hey all right talk about your coach and did anyone die no right a dog did you have a dog that was maybe dropped off at a farm

no okay all right next i mean every single story was especially in that nfl broadcast was like how can we make this thing a tearjerker and we're doing this on a ton of shows now. And it's not even just ESPN. Like, I don't quite get it. It's the sapization of ESPN. I'll tell you what happened. I want guys arguing in studios saying, I can't believe you like this pick. That's what everybody else is doing.

And now we're so far removed from that. I don't quite understand it. I was in my back house, but I had the TV on. Must be nice. And my wife came out. Stop. Where am I right now? You said a back house, bro?

You said a back house. That's a little pool house. I'm in house number two. So my wife comes out, and I guess the draft had been on, and she was making dinner, and she's like, I just cried three picks in a row. Like, dead serious. Oh, my God.

And I was like, oh, that's why they do this. You're like, I did too, because the Celtics took Neesmith instead. I was like, I cried too, because this draft telecast is so bad. There were no arguments. Every pick was the greatest pick ever. There was no, like, Cal Burton starts falling. They're not going crazy about it. Trades are happening.

Woj is six minutes ahead of each pick on twitter and i just i don't understand it why would you have a telecast that doesn't reflect the basketball fans experience of digesting the draft it was like this separate and i've done the draft i did two years in a row and i felt like back then at least we would argue about the picks and be like wow that was weird why'd they do that that part's just gone they don't question anything it's not even a part of it like i wonder how that even works like do you guys want like just like we're sitting here now and if i think you're ridiculous on a pick i'm just going to tell you and right it doesn't mean i'm right it doesn't mean you're wrong or any of that kind of stuff but i feel like every fan base and granted you know we can talk about the the

challenges of now but it isn't just this year year. It's moving further and further away from what I think everyone that's at home is doing. The people that are still watching the second round right now are lifers, are hardcore. Yeah. All right? And there were just moments where I go, wait, that's a trade, right? That's a trade. And I don't know. Before the Charlotte pick, they didn't even talk about it.

They just went right from the long the long james wiseman section interview more james hey let's talk to his uncle and then all of a sudden it's like charlotte's on the clock oh they took lamella balls i don't know kind of a i wanted like two minutes of something i don't know rajah where do you stand on this yeah i'm with you i mean i look i i think a lot of a lot of shit is just different. People are trying to figure their way around it. But I'm with you in that everything in this draft wasn't great. And so if it wasn't great, like we came on here early, and I talked about Obi Toppin.

Two of you both said you like the pick, right? There's nothing wrong with that. There's no offense taken. We disagree. It's your opinion. Yeah, it's what it is. So there should be more of that when you've got four guys in a studio breaking down a draft like this.

I agree. It can't all be the same shit, as I just agreed with you guys doing exactly what they should have told us. You should have told us you love it and you like those. Because I think we end up coming off like, I know I'm, you know, to be like, oh, right. You don't like, I think people do like the family touching stories. But I know, I know that there's a lot of basketball fans that are so into this.

And we had to wait a few extra months. And I just think there's so many cool basketball things. I want to talk Kyra Lewis on the Pelicans. I think that's why you mentioned the idea of having this on ABC. The family stories on an ABC style channel that analysis on another, like I think it would be great to have ESPN having one broadcast, ESPN two having another

because on one of them, you could have Adam Silver go up there, you know, six minutes after the whole world knows where they're getting picked. On the other one, you could go to Woj, have him on camera,

announce the pick, and then go to a round table of people debating the pig, wondering where the hell is Albert going? Why is this happening? Why are teams letting him fall? And then why would the kings take them when they have a point guard like it's at least let's have that conversation wait yeah it doesn't even work you're right you're right that part is like never even brought up like do you go wait a minute can he play off a dearon fox well actually he could play off because

his freshman year he had other guards there that were scorers all right boom boom boom and all these different things and you have the most powerful guy covering any sport in Woj. And you're like, I want to hear what Woj is saying more about the climate of some of the stuff that's happening. Or maybe he's just on the phone so much that it's hard. But I feel like I go, I want more Woj. You know what they did add that I kind of enjoyed was the Bobby Marks who runs it. I like Bobby Marks. He's a good guy.

But he runs interview stuff for like 45 of the guys, helps them learn how to get interviewed by teams. So they go to him on Halbert. And I saw him to this two days ago too, where he's like, it's almost like he's like Tom Cruise talking about Scientology or something. He's like, he's like Tyrese. Hal Burton is the best human being I've met in my 48 years on earth. I watched him.

There was a dying dog in the street and he touched it with his pinky and the dog got up and ran away. Like it was like that kind of energy. And you were like, all right, I'm sure he's a good guy. But like, is this guy Gandhi? Are we going to be making a three and a half hour movie about him someday? What's what's going on here? But it's a lot of that. It's a lot of like selling how great each guy is versus like,

let's, can we just talk about the basketball fit? Does this guy make sense on this team? Like, I thought that was the whole point of the draft. Yeah. I, maybe it's because it's kids and maybe it's because people just don't want to get up there and be like, oh, this guy sucks. What a reach, you know, out of the 58 people I've worked with that, the ringer, I have never met anybody who on a zoom could be more understanding. I just, I don't get it.

I just don't understand. Where the hell is this going? I just don't understand the complimentary hyperbole. It's like this whole thing with the draft now. I don't get it. I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. And I mean, especially to like in a draft that we all think may kind of suck do we want to do a round two

update quick though only because oh no this is just an interesting one vernon carey at duke 610 270 he was i think yeah he was the number five player rivals five star number five player if you go rivals it was Wiseman. It was Isaiah Stewart, the big kid, obviously, out of Washington, where lottery picks go to die. And then Anthony Edwards, who went one. Cole Anthony was four. Vernon Carey was five.

He goes into Duke. Kevin, I don't know. Did you have him at some point? I imagine pretty high in a mock a year out because he's this high. Probably a year ago. Yeah, right. And I'd ask because I was like, hey, up with cashes what's up over what's up all those duke guys and they're complete afterthoughts and when you watch vernon his size stood out but there really wasn't but then whenever you talk to like i couldn't find one guy that's like hey man people were sleeping on him it was just a bad year at duke he probably went higher than people thought going 32 so there you go that's my second round guy for you i have a raja duke thing i think raja like about five years ago just could have started

pretending he went to duke and it would have been far enough ago that nobody would have would have even known but you would have been a great duke guy i always could have totally have seen you in there i always thought i would have been a great duke and I'm all, I'm so, I'm friends with a lot of Duke dudes, so I know I would be good in a Duke uniform. Unfortunately, I got recruited by zero ACC schools, so it just wasn't in the cards. It should

have happened. We got to have a do-over on that. You don't flop enough, though. Raja doesn't flop enough. True. That's a good point. Listen, because you brought up Vern, like I'm friends with his dad. Oh, yeah. Talk him up.

Let's go. No, I've watched him play in high school. Like he's right around the corner from me. So I've watched him since he was like in the 10th grade. I'm asking you guys, because like what was it? Was it just like that type of big, like the size, the maybe lack of athleticism like what was it that they saw you know in the in the year that just you know caused him to slip like

that i'm just just a throwback you know i mean people question how much of a of a modern skill set does he have for on the defensive end of the floor uh for you know just just everything really you know in terms of decision making for you i mean he sort of reminds me a little bit of like jared solinger uh i mean maybe maybe solinger had more perimeter than carrie did i agree yeah so i talk about him a little like i talked i talked about him a lot um and i feel like like the skill set isn't i feel like duke was a bad choice for him like it sounds crazy but I feel like if you go somewhere where they let you not play on the block because coach K is going to mold his team around

whatever he's got the best way for him to win games he does it every year runs a different offense like sometimes they're just in floppy right and then other years they're kind of spaced out and he's going to let a guard go to work um I feel like it was a bad fit for Vern I'm not saying he's going to be a great pro but I I think if you showed, like you go to Kentucky where they let you do some other things, like maybe there's a different narrative around. That's what I used to love about the UConn guys because Calhoun would just load up on him

and be like, get out there and run and bust your ass on defense. You do whatever you want. And it was different. It was more freedom. Here's a zag. As he ducks. I don't know that I love

what they were doing on offense at Duke the last couple of years with K and the fact that Zion would, they would have these moments where basically it was just a Zion to bail everybody out. And RJ and cam register still on the team. And some of that I think is more on cam and RJ regressing a bit, but that team was ridiculous. That's three lottery picks.

And I know the tournament's one and done and all that kind of stuff. But then when I'd watch all these guys come in and like, what world would three Duke players come in that are projected as maybe two lotteries in another first round or none of them go in the first round. Speaking about bigs, one guy I don't believe we've discussed yet is James Wiseman going to the Warriors with the second pick. And what a big day for the Warriors.

Chris Haynes said maybe an Achilles injury. I mean, that's awful if that turns out to be the case but James Wiseman going to them second pick in the draft that's a perfect pick pick for them perfect fit for Wiseman to get better at his weaknesses he can play right away be a rim runner for them Ryan I know he's your top guy in the draft do you feel like my number one guy yeah perfect situation for him right yeah and i gotta tell you i i believe i i need to do more digging on this and maybe i'll have it for friday's pod but i think there was a lot of of changing of the minds back and forth like hey if edwards is there if mellow is there if wiseman is there and that's why i was getting a little

coy with bill earlier in the week I didn't like it yeah I know you did but I didn't feel comfortable talking about it so I'm just I'm just saying that I wonder how much we'll learn about you know you never know with teams after the fact because teams are very protective of of like when something doesn't work out they'll say well that's because of this this and this you're like all right well maybe that's true but I'm not quite sure but I just love the wiseman pick but it would just been weird had if edwards had fallen would people have said oh well they didn't take wiseman or they took the guard or they took mellow because clay had gotten hurt earlier that day

i don't really think that's team's too smart that's not how they would run their board but i love hopefully if clay's healthy and even without you know you still have steph i don't know what's going to happen with Wiggins. Maybe he's asked to do more here, obviously, if Clay's injury is really bad. But it just makes a lot of sense because they've been kind of piecemealing it there at center for a while. And look, I just like him. I like what his floor is. I like what his floor is, and I get really excited about what his ceiling could be.

The thing is, I was thinking the Clay thing, and I hope he's okay. And I really miss watching Clay, so and I hope he's okay and I really miss watching clay so I really hope it's a blip but uh I was so excited to watch that team with Wiseman and I just they haven't really ever had a guy like that in the mix with the shooters they have and just how smart yeah yeah it's always been like these flawed dudes. But I was thinking like when I saw the Clay News, I do believe in basketball karma sometimes where you can have such a good run for so long that it just can't last.

It's like a seesaw. It's got a seesaw the other way. And you think like the Warriors, they had such like a blessed run there for so many years. Durant goes down to cost him a title. No, no. I'm saying I'm going back. I'm going back to 09.

I'm saying like Curry falling to them. The Klay Thompson pick. The fact that Draymond goes to 36. The cap spike gets him Durant. The Harrison Barnes game where they're trying to tank it and it goes into overtime and they finally pull it out and they wouldn't even have that Harrison Barnes pick and then Durant coming and all that like they had this

great run and then it's like from the moment KD went down it's been one thing after another and it's like that seesaw thing I don't know I don't Raj am I overthinking that a little bit but I'm with you I was hoping he wasn't going to agree by the way well done i i do believe in

basketball guys too though i just you know my takeaway from that is like um not not your point point like the and the injury itself um if clay if that's an achilles injury i don't think you ever see the guy that that that was in the prime of his career again. You don't come back from an Achilles usually and look the same. You're certainly not coming off of an ACL not having played, and now you've got an Achilles and come back and look like you did before. That's just terrible. It's awful. I just hope it's not true because that would be the end of Clay as you knew him.

And by the way, did we get the ruling on it's the opposite leg of the acl correct yeah so raja that that probably tells you something where however he was training and we know clay's an absolute gym rat like he's the kind of guy that like three days after surgery when they say don't do anything for six weeks he's probably trying to get some shots up i just i wonder if that has if the rehab is the reason why you end up blowing out the achilles you're overcompensating probably. I mean, I haven't seen any clay's workouts, but typically when you come back and you're really trying to get back after it, it's a kinetic chain, right?

Like everything's trying to make up for deficiency on the other side, and before you know it, you've injured something else, which is a shame. I mean, we don't know exactly how he injured it, but he was playing like full court games in L.A. with a whole bunch of guys that were coming through that gym. So, I mean, I'm guessing it probably happened during a game. Let's tell the other thing that happened today that just got lost because it got tweeted out right before the draft, but it had been something that I think we had all been hearing all day is that the Bogdanovich sign and trade isn't actually happening where they made the trade it's going but then they forgot the

part that he's a restricted free agent and he actually has to sign the deal and agree to it they didn't forget the part other teams couldn't believe and i don't really know like what but it was the number it was the cap gurus were like this actually can't happen in this order and then i was like i don't know like i'm not you know taking up with the commissioner so you're right like but i think they thought the way i perceived it was he's restricted but they've talked to him he's gonna sign and then they'll trade him to milwaukee but that's apparently not what happened and it doesn't look like he's going to milwaukee so there's two days that we spent where we were like, oh my God, drew holiday and Bogdanovich.

And now Giannis will stay in it. And now he's with Dante defense. What if, what if Giannis goes, Hey, I thought we were going to bring Donovich. I'm out of here. Sorry about all those picks. Yeah.

That's not a joke. I'm really, you think you would do that? It sounds like you want that to happen. Anything surprising? James Harden's like, I'm out. He's just like overnight. Like I'm gone. What do you want to have happen anything surprising james harden's like i'm out he's just like overnight like i'm gone what do you want to have happen more that or kairi end

up on the heat i don't think bogdanovich is going to milwaukee i'm telling you that much i'm not saying you're wrong i'm just i don't know that it also means janice bails it would just be really nasty if that were to happen i have nothing else to add to this i just i know how excited what were you looking for? Kyrie getting traded where? There was a rumor not true, or if it was true, it maybe lasted a second,

but that they were trying to figure out a three-way deal and it had Kyrie ending up in Miami, which I just refuse to believe. But the thought of them trading Kyrie was just... We talked about it a little yesterday on my podcast with Raja. I just thought that was hilarious. Durant and Kyrie would have never played together when they traded Kyrie was just... We talked about it a little yesterday on my podcast with Raja. I just thought that was

hilarious. Durant and Kyrie would have never played together and they traded Kyrie? What are the odds of that? So I don't think that will happen. I actually think Harden's going to end up going to Philly. If I had to make a bet, I would bet on Westbrook and Harden

getting traded within the next few days. Westbrook where? I think Westbrook is going to get traded pretty soon. To where, though? To an Easter conference team. That's my guess. So you think Kemba and some firsts do it? No, it won't be the Celtics.

I will say this. I didn't fully believe it until the Horford trade today that's kind of secretly saved Philly a lot of money. Yeah, there's a lot of tax stuff there. How much you have to add, whatever that Harden trade is. And I think we all agree that Harden, Ben Simmons, whatever that looks like is the most logical trade. If Houston's going to trade Harden,

they have to get somebody like Ben Simmons back or it's not worth it. I reported earlier in the week that people around the league were just saying Tillman Fertitta is not going to trade James Harden and Darryl Morey, but it is noteworthy. I know this is silly, but his son on Twitter

has been liking tweets saying, my dad's a businessman. This is part of negotiations. He's going to take the best offer available. He's a businessman. This is part of negotiations. He's going to take the best offer available. He's a businessman. All this stuff about that, this and that. So that would be part of it. Like, you might try to get more from Daryl because he's Daryl,

but that's part of it, trying to get everything you can because that Nets offer, man, like, that's something you take this offseason when there's nothing else available. That's what I've never understood about this. So many people that keep writing, well, you can't bring him back.

I can bring him back if it's for Dinwiddie and Karis LeVert. And, you know, like, look, I kind of like Karis LeVert. Dinwiddie's turned into a nice story, but give me a break. I'm not doing it.

Not with two years plus a player option. Makes no sense. Do you have any good Westbrook stories, Raja? No. No, no, no. None?

Did you never? Because I could see you not wanting to put up with that or him maybe not trying you as much as he tries other guys i actually well he never tried me i like i respected uh russ because of the way he competed right like so it's kind of like a fraternal thing like you you know there were some guys and i won't say any names um that when you go out to the jump ball uh they're trying to make nice with you like hey man like you know how's it going like there were even there are even guys in the nba that would tell you hey man this play is not for me it's not for me just chill just chill just chill we're going through just this place not for me serious oh facts but like russ wasn't wired like that and i always had

respect i love that part of russ i look i criticize him all the time but that part i love i just you know that's just about the only experience i have with him is just straight up competition. But I always respected him for the way he got there. Yeah, see, I bet he respected Raja more than he would respect, like, I don't know, Peyton Pritchard. Russ is Nick Cage. We just want to see him in the straight to VOD movies where, like, somebody died and he's got to find them.

And he's not winning an Oscar. You spend two hours with Russ, you're going to have a good time, and the movie's going to cost $4.99. That's Russell Westbrook. I think the mistake has been this guy's an Oscar winner. This guy, no, he could be a lead. No. That's who he is. He's Nick Cage. I want him to go to an Eastern Conference team

and take 30 shots a game and have the occasional 42, 15, and 17 and let's go. He'll make one of those seven shitty Eastern teams much more exciting just by being on the team. All right, so we've whittled it down to one quarter of the league. It's a shitty Eastern team.

Bill has this look on his face like he is just bursting. Like he was with LaMelo Ball a couple days ago? Pretty much. It's the same thing. I don't know know this can't even get aggregated though you've done a good job of hiding it what else i didn't say anything i know you did a terrific job uh nick richards kentucky off the board so just in case anybody was wondering most disappointing team most disappointing team that didn't do anything was indiana i was waiting for like all this indiana mover they're going to be in the middle of stuff old depot turner um who knows and nothing nothing from them i do think they were kicking tires on some trades but i don't i just don't think anything happened to them but But the Oladipo thing.

Roger, would you take a flyer on Oladipo for a year at $20 million? Yep. You would? Yeah. I would too. What are you giving up, though? It's got to be a buy low. I think that's what it is.

How low? Is it worth it for Indiana? I don't know what value is anymore when Landry Shamit's worth the 19th pick. You're way too hard on Landry Shamit. Shamit face. Yeah. Shamit face is in your head. He was terrific as a rookie.

He was closing. Terrific's a little strong. His three-point shooting was fine. He's really good with the Clippers, too. Really came along in the defensive end of the court. Yeah. I think, Bill, I don't know what the hell Landry Schammett did to you. I think the real question is,

would you rather have Landry Schammett or Luke Kennard? They kind of have a choice there between the two. Landry Schammett. Raj, does he want to hear it? Landry Schammett, sir, yes. I'm with KOC and Ryan. How come Raj? I'm curious. Because he's team Brooklyn now. No, I like, listen, I think look, I liked him when he was in Ph i'm curious because he's he's team brooklyn now no i like i listen i

think look i i liked him when he was in philly i liked him when he was when he was uh in which at wichita but uh like i i think he can really shoot the ball i think he has like the the the spirit that which you would want like there are a lot of people that shoot the ball but i think he's got a moxie about him and a toughness about him that is good on winning teams that you need like there's a nuts and bolts kind of feel to him for me for good teams I liked him more until the bubble but now he might have

been COVID stuff when he was just to show himself I don't know but I thought he was bad in the bubble fair couple guys that are still available Nico Mannion is going to end up in Italy a lot quicker than we thought he's still available. Nico Mannion is going to end up in Italy a lot quicker than we thought. He's still available. Cassius Winston, Michigan State.

My guy Isaiah Joe is still on the board. Isaiah Joe is still on the board. Some medicals people are worried about. Killian Tilly, speaking of medicals. Oh, yeah. He is good. He's actually good. I mean, he's 6'10".

He can shoot the hell out of the ball. He can actually move off the shot. It was a knee surgery, a fracture in the foot. There was an ankle thing. All of these injuries never could stay healthy. If he wasn't, again, if a senior who didn't have a million injuries,

he's from France. All the different factors that go against him. I'm not even trying to be anti-French right now. I know that sounded weird. What about your guy Isaiah Joe? Isaiah Joe is still available. So I checked on that. Isaiah Joe, if you remember his timeline,

for those who don't remember, 6'5", Arkansas, shoot the hell out of the ball, wasn't a highly recruited guy, small school in Arkansas. Actually, I don't know the size of the high school, but he didn't have a ton of interest. I think Alabama was the only other big team that wanted him. And he had a promise from Philly before Darryl took over. Before Darryl even got there,

they brought him in. They didn't like something in his medical. He missed some time. The team, again, everybody always has different medical opinions on all sorts of stuff, as we're learning now, but that apparently it wasn't that bad. But then once he had some procedure, then Philly was like, we're out. but that apparently it wasn't that bad but then once he had had some procedure then philly was like we're out and then it's a whole new team there so i'm just telling you there were way too many guys that i watched in this draft class that i don't think are going to score in the nba and i think if isaiah joe is healthy he can score in the league i'm with you there ryan and to me i mean medical aside there's no doubt about this guy's ability to be an nba

player for you. His ability to shoot off screens. It's sort of like we talked about earlier with the ability to not just spot up and shoot. He can come off of movement and drain threes for you. I mean, to me, if he's able to stay healthy, whatever the medical is, he's going to end up one of the second round steals that we have here. And there's a couple here. I mean, I think Xavier Tillman, another guy who had some medical issues going to Memphisphis a robert woodard a wing that i had ranked i believe 20th or 21st how about ty sean alexander the creighton kid i like him too he look again you know who are we

talking about here most of these guys are never even going to have any kind of career but he is on a good college team and he was so full of himself in the best way possible as a basketball player like he thinks he's the shit every single minute he was out there and i know you had him higher than this and i agreed with you and i mean espn has him now as best available at he's the 20th best available players were halfway through the second round so i have a question for rajan because rajah will you be a gm at some? I don't know what year, what year, what's the over under for you? 2027 at some point, it'll be a GM. You got to get all these kids out the house, brother.

Yeah. Once, once you, once you put some kids in boarding school and college, what is the point of promising people that you're going to draft them? I don't get that. I think so much can happen. Like, let's say for instance, let's say Sacramento had let's say uh sacramento had promised the seven foot 180 pound kid that okc took that ko c legs is going to be a bust

let's say they had taken shots fired let's say they promised that dude at 12 we're going to take you but then haliburton drops and now he's sitting there at 12 and you're like ah we promised the 180 pound kid we're going to get him some meat meals and try to put them on some shakes, get them up to 198. Or we could just take Hal Burton, who's going to be awesome. I'd be like, fuck that. Our promise is broken. What is the point of doing promises?

Yeah, listen, I haven't been in a situation where there was a promise made. So I don't understand why you would promise someone and pigeonhole yourself with that either. My take on a promise is that it's not really a promise. My situation coming out of the draft, Atlanta, they didn't promise me, but they was like, we'll take you with that last pick in the draft if it's around. So what that did for me was maybe I don't need to go

to every workout now. Right. Like I have something in hand, so to speak. So you could, in theory, kind of stop a guy from being exposed to everybody else. You can pick your spots a little bit almost, or mail it in on certain teams that you don't really want to play for. Yeah. I mean, look for, for, for my perspective, like, so it happened to me with San Antonio also, right? Like, they tried to stash me in a summer league because they didn't want me going out there and they wanted to sign me to a one-year deal. And, you know, I was happy to be locked into San Antonio, so I just sat the rest of summer league. They didn't want me getting out there and showing everybody else in the league what I could do. So your question about a promise is, I don't know why you would promise anyone that you were going to take them when you don't know what's going to happen in the draft. I have no idea because I've never been in that type of situation. What do you think, KFC?

Why do teams do this? Want them to stop working out with teams. Just want them to shut it down so they increase their chances of getting that guy. I think it's as simple as that, really. And sometimes that can end up screwing you in certain situations where if a guy falls, you might have to break that promise and ruin that relationship and deal with all that comes from that or maybe like that's what ends up getting you that player instead of having them risk going for a workout for two or three or four teams that are ahead of your pick and on the other side like for the player and his agent and their their team it's a risk for them too if draft position matters

matters to them but oftentimes i mean like with pokruszewski it's been ok for them too if draft position matters to them. But oftentimes, I mean, like with Pokruszewski, it's been OKC, OKC for him for so long. And like, you know, you might say he's going to be a bust, but for his team, it was about the best fit. And the best fit was OKC. So there's no use in having him go work out for Sacramento at

number 12 or New Orleans at number 13 because they didn't want him to go there. They wanted him to go to OKC. I think he's going to make their G League team unbelievable. I look forward to watching him. Next five years of G League with that dude, he's going to be lighting it up. I mean, he might honestly be like the LeBron of the G League,

but he could play 15 years. Could he get 30,000 points? I don't know. How many games a year do they play in the G League? If the Celtics drafted Poker Chefs, he'd be talking yourself into a seven-footer who can shoot, who can pass. He's seven foot, 180 pounds.

Remember, we did this with Rajan. He actually doesn't dunk. By the way, he's 7'1". He drives. He doesn't dunk. I saw one dunk in hours of footage of him. I'm out. We gave Rajan his physique. He was 7'1", 185. Rajan's like, I'm out. That's all I need his physique. It was 7'1", 185. Roshan's like, I'm out. That's all I need to know.

And he can't dunk. Speaking of measurables, Israeli point guard Yamadar goes to the Celtics. Listed right now at 6'2", zero pounds. So we need to update this profile. Zero pounds. Wow. Needs to put on some weight. It does say in the Sky Report, needs to fill out frame.

And we got Nico Mannion to golden state as well i mean done clay who cares now it's it's really good he steps right in for for clay uh any other shockers before we go or any anything that jumped out any surprises maybe jemise ramsey the texas tech kid who he's he's wild there's a lot going on there, but he had a, he had a pretty big high school profile was part of the high school circuit. Him going the middle of the second though,

you know, maybe that's on the later end for him. I'd say most of this kind of went chalk except for a couple of surprises, but I feel like the top of the second has been a little different than a lot there. Yeah. We didn't talk about,

we didn't talk about RJ Hampton going to Denver. Like the classic, put that dude in a trade where, what is it, you know, he was like a top five high school guy a year ago, goes overseas, drops probably too far. And now if they want to get that third dude and do the Porter Hampton, now that's your Bradley Beal package

or somebody like that, potentially, if he shows any signs of promise at all. KOC seems dubious. I mean, you'd hope so. I mean, he's got a long way to go. I love that team for him, though. Yeah, I think I love the team fit, though, because now he doesn't have to worry about anything. He's got two decision makers, two guys, everything's better he's focused on,

and he won't even be close to the third option, but I think running around with a second unit with those guys, I actually think it's a good spot. I think so, too. He can slide into that former Malik Beasley role in a way, coming off that bench. The other thing I loved was Rubio going back to Minnesota and then the stuff goes.

Rubio was really excited to go back, and it was like Kevin McHale going back to the Celtics. Rubio's so excited to go back to the team where he missed the playoffs every year for eight years. I'm back, baby. Isaiah Joe Sixers. Wow. So get him.

So that's a smart team. That's a smart team, right? So you're vindicated there. Can we double check on that KOC? Because I'd hate to find out later on that they traded it. Yeah. I'm not sure. We're safe right now.

I wish. I hate. I'm on NBA.com's draft board. Like, they got old logos on there. Picks have been traded. Like, just change the pick. We don't need to wait for it to be official. Yeah, talk to Silver, Bill.

Yeah. What are we doing? I'm already on the record that the first round, the first night should be the first 14 picks. That's it. And we go 15 minutes between picks, and then we can really nerd it up and get getting all the trade stuff and do the whole thing and make it a whole night

versus like how fast it flies now and then half the time you know guys are crying and we're we're watching anthony edwards as ant-man with marvel comic strips and it's like can we just talk about that would suck if i were if i were a guy and they're like hey we're gonna do this marvel thing we're like yeah yeah we're going to do this whole thing. Marvel's hot right now. Cool. Yeah, we're going to do... You're going to be a superhero.

Which one? Thor? Hulk? Ant-Man. Well, he said he's been Ant-Man since age three. Yeah, I know. I get it, Anthony. I'm not an idiot, but I would be like,

hey, if you guys are going to call me into the superheroes, can I not be the insect played by Paul Ruddudd raja what are your feelings about d d low cat and ant-man as your top three with ricky rubio coming home to lead them to the promised land yeah i'm not i'm not thrilled i think i'm not super enthused no i think it think it was a good fit. I think the pick was a good pick for me. They they're like any other team with a bunch of young talent, man. You have to find somebody to kind of help steward them into that next phase of their career. Someone's gotta someone's gotta be there that that that is the pro that is the character guy

that that's been on winning teams um and still has enough cache and is playing minutes where those guys will respect him and listen to him. Maybe a little less heavy-handed than a Jimmy Butler, but certainly with a little bit of a swag and cachet where guys will understand and take some of the lessons that he's trying to impart on them. And Ricky Rubio is probably not that guy. Ricky's not that guy.

Ricky doesn't strike me. I mean, he's a great pro. And I think there are some lessons if you were really to sit around and watch Ricky Rubio probably prepare and get himself ready to play and stuff I don't know that he's vocal enough necessarily um to really be in there like establishing culture I think you need another guy I gotta say I thought the biggest missed opportunity of this whole draft I I just thought Minnesota should take in Wiseman and it's like well why why would they they have towns it's like well first of all towns is unhappy of this whole draft, I just thought Minnesota should have taken Wiseman. And it's like, well, why would they have Towns?

It's like, well, first of all, Towns is unhappy every year. The odds of him being in Minnesota two years from now, what would you say, 50%, 40%? But I don't know. Towns and Wiseman together, I kind of would have wanted to see it. It's pretty unusual, right? If you could have figured out a way to play those two together offensively you could have done it both of them can float in and out

and then on defense there's ways you could have made that work I think that could have been a team that potentially when you were playing them like oh god we gotta play these guys they're long they're athletic they have bigs who can shoot threes this is a weird team I don't want to play them and instead they didn't want to play them.

And instead, they didn't want any part of it. Why not, KFC? Offensively, that could have worked great. And I'm super intrigued by, you know, I was super intrigued by the idea of it because you could have Wiseman maybe as more of your interior big, your rim runner, and maybe he develops over time to be more perimeter oriented. And Cat plays like a win. I mean, he shoots threes. One of the best

shooters in the league despite how big he is i'm not sure how well it would have worked defensively though one of those guys would really need to be good on the perimeter or you're gonna get attacked so you're gonna teams are gonna penetrate the paint against you get kick out threes i'm not sure it would have worked there for many years and you would need it to work before it gets to the that point where cat's like maybe i want to go somewhere else deals years and you needed to work before it gets to the that point where cat's like maybe i want to go somewhere else deals like maybe i want to go somewhere else so edwards from like a character standpoint and like chemistry standpoint it's not the best fit for him to not have that guy that you guys are talking about as a leader for him and as an example from a basketball

standpoint it's the best choice that they could have made of a bunch of flawed choices with his size. And you hope he's able to turn it on more and play with more effort. But it could work. But they do need that veteran presence. And I'm not sure who that guy is right now. But they're going to have to find him at some point for this to work. I guarantee Golden State wanted them to take Edwards. Guaranteed?

I think Golden State wanted Wiseman. And I think they were sitting there the whole time terrified that somebody was going to trade up and take Wiseman, and then they had to stare at Edwards or Lomelo trying to figure out who was the least weird fit for them. And instead they had this guy who, worst case scenario,

will be able to play 20 minutes a game for them next couple years. Best case scenario is exactly the kind of guy they've needed for 10 years. So I don't know. I thought it worked out pretty well for them. I selfishly wanted to see Melo play with D'Angelo Russell. Sorry. Sorry, Minnesota. You didn't have to worry about it now all right we can wrap it up roger any brooklyn net scoop for us

i got no net scoop and i talked to steve earlier and he gave me nothing nothing this is weird this is a weird thing for your friendship where he just can't tell you things anymore i know i was so pissed at him i told him today i had a friend reach out who wanted to contact him about like helping him through his brooklyn like move and i was like dude i'm really fucking mad you haven't been on my pod yet like i'm really pissed seriously fucking i yeah we had he was like yeah dude i'm equally as mad that you're not sitting in the office with me right now i'm like touche you got it oh so it's like a stalemate yeah yeah well once if harding gets traded to Philly,

then that, then there will be no more weird trades and that, and then he can finally come on and just talk and talk to you and Logan and do it. So we should book that. All right. Yeah. But promote the pod Roger for people could check it out with you and Logan

Murdoch. Yeah. Real ones. NBA, you know, Mondays, NBA ringer pod. Check us out,

man. We, we chop it up. Logan's great at his job, and I'm hopefully getting better. That's a good podcast. Roger's been great. Thanks to KOC.

I mean, unbelievable. You can start to work on 2021. Going to be a great draft. Going to be a great draft, and you can hear Bill Simmons. Well, KOC's got the big post-draft show for the nerds on Ringer NBA.

What time? Thursday? We're recording Thursday morning with me, Jonathan Charks, and Jay Kyle, man, and that'll be out, I believe, sometime on Thursday. We're going full nerd. We gave them specific instructions, like nerd it up. Don't think any reference is too crazy. i'm excited it's

gonna be a good time i have mine tomorrow too at some point all right thanks everybody it was a long wait wasn't as dramatic as maybe we thought it could be but still just great to watch a draft so uh thanks again everybody and we'll uh be back on this podcast this is a bonus episode here we're back with a normal friday on the Rosillo Feet. you