The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NBA Preseason Headlines With Brian Windhorst. Plus Catching Up With Matthew McConaughey.

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

Russillo is joined by ESPN’s Brian Windhorst to discuss the situation with the Nets, Kyrie Irving, and the NYC vaccination mandate, as well as Ben Simmons's return to the 76ers (0:43). Then Ryen talks with actor and author Matthew McConaughey about taking the jump into acting in the 1990s, the “McConaissance,” the differences working with legendary directors Martin Scorsese and Christopher Nolan, disappearing into the South American jungle, and more (25:45). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:00:32). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Matthew McConaughey and Brian Windhorst Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is going to be a fun podcast today. We've got Matthew McConaughey, who we're just going to catch up with. Lucky enough to have him on a bunch of times at ESPN. We talk about his career and all sorts of stuff. Brian Windhorst, the latest with Kyrie in the net, Simmons and the Sixers, and his thoughts on the Lakers. And if you want more of my NBA thoughts, you get about four hours worth on our Over-Unders NBA Preview podcast

with Bill Simmons in-house. That's on the Bill Simmons feed. We taped that one late last night. That one is done out now. I'll link it to this podcast as well. And then we'll get into life advice. So enjoy the podcast. Brian Windhorst, our guest,

host of the Brian Windhorst podcast, The Hoop Collective with ESPN and of course, a longtime writer. So there's a bunch of headlining stuff that we can get to. I don't know how much meat is left on the Kyrie and Ben Simmons bone, but we're still going to try. Let's start with Kyrie. Where is this story now in comparison to maybe where you thought it would be a month ago? is this story now in comparison to maybe where you thought it would be a month ago? Well, you know, I think as soon as the vaccine mandate came out in New York, we knew that there were certain players that this was going to affect. Kerry Irving was one of them. The other players all got vaccinated. So media day came. I was in Brooklyn.

Everybody was singing a happy, hopeful tune. And I was like, why? Why would, you know, the vaccine has been available to Kyrie since the spring. He has not taken it all the way here. And by the way, the vaccine mandate in New York is relatively simple. You get one shot, you're done. You don't have to be, quote, fully vaccinated. quote, fully vaccinated. Actually, the New York City mandate is less than the NBA mandate

for what is considered... I shouldn't say the NBA mandate. The NBA rule for what a fully vaccinated player is and what he can do based on his teammates is higher than the New York City mandate. So if Kyrie was going to do it, he would have done it, frankly, is what I was saying.

So when opening day came, or opening training camp came, and he hadn't done it, I was like, why is everybody just saying that he will? What reason? The only reason I could think is that Kyrie said, I'm going to do it. I don't know if he did or if he didn't, but those guys were singing a happy tune.

And they went out to San Diego. And the place I'd want to be is Joe Sy has his house in La Jolla. I'm sure it's a hell of a house. He has the whole team there, the owner of the Nets. And I don't know for sure, but Kyrie was at Joe Sy's house. It's the most important thing in the franchise. I'd like to know what Josiah said to Kyrie. Did they just joke?

Did they go inside into the office? Did they joke out playing croquet on the lawn? But after that meeting, after that time at Josiah's house, when they got back to New York and Kyrie was still not vaccinated, things started changing. They said, we are not going to move our practices. And of course they looked into it. I mean, even if there was a 1% chance of them moving them, they would have looked into it. They were not going to change their practices. Then Kyrie gets cleared to actually practice at the facility. I don't know what the team knew, but I can tell you from people who

were there when the announcement came, it caught the team by surprise. In other words, they didn't know it was coming and I'm not sure they even asked for it. And when that happened, they didn't exactly celebrate. Number three, even though he practiced Saturday and Sunday, they didn't bring him to Philly. This is a guy that they've barely seen. They didn't bring him to Philly. Then they get back from Philly the next day and they say, yeah, we don't want to use the word meeting. I'll get aggregated. That event at Josiah's house, the Nets have been making decisions, taking a harder and harder line with Kyrie. And so here we are. And Ryan, I know that there are stories out there, but Kyrie has yet to articulate his thinking.

I know his aunt has said stuff. I know sources close to him have said stuff. He has had one media session where he declined to articulate his thinking. I know his aunt has said stuff. I know sources close to him have said stuff. He has had one media session where he declined to speak about it. He has not articulated why he is not vaccinated. And so we are really left to just guess at what's going to happen next. Right. And, you know, Shams had the piece last night that was, I would say, strategically a counter by Kyrie's camp to be like, let's get our thoughts out there. And Shams, look, you're going to get the info. You're going to use that access.

But I thought it was very telling that Kyrie's never mentioned any of this voice for the voiceless stuff in regards to the vaccine itself until it was like, wait, I'm getting worked here. So it's not even that I'm anti-vaccine. It's that I'm worried that people are losing their jobs on and on, ignoring the health part of it. So I just felt like tactically, it's like, okay, so this is your play. And in reality, like you guys can come up with this a week or so ago. And so, you know, at this point, like everybody knows my Kyrie thoughts. I haven't spent a ton of time on it.

I think those that are closest to him would tell you that they're actually more worried about him than they are ever mad at him. Because they're just like, what is going on with the thought process here? I think it was a little bit more popular where he had more defenders, both in the media and then in NBA fandom. And yet now with this and his explanation, which I think anybody that's paying attention was like, oh, okay, here we go. You know, just whenever I read a piece on Kyrie, then it's immediately reminding us of all the charitable work, which has been incredible because he's been great with that. But it's like, okay, that part's great, but that's not the part that we're focused on right now. And really who cares unless you're his teammate. And that's the part where you go,

even if Kyrie is his own man and wants to do things differently. Okay, fine, fine. Like I'm over it. It doesn't bother me that much. But if I'm Kevin Durant, if I'm James Harden, I'm going, guys, we're trying to win a title. We got a great chance of winning a championship here. And it seems that Kyrie does not care about that part, which may be the most odd of the entire thing. thing well you know i had i was i tried to ask kairi a question at media day and just didn't get didn't get today i just didn't get to get called on i i really you know um i've said this before but kairi you know they teach us at espn to ask open-ended questions you do not ask yes or no questions but with kairi i think you got to turn that off and you got to ask yes or no questions. But with Kyrie, I think you got to turn that off and you got to ask yes or no questions. So I had two questions for Kyrie. One, does your aunt speak for you? Because you remember that Rolling Stone story came out and what she said was,

this is not a religious decision. It's a moral one. I don't know what that means. And I don't know how it's not a religious decision. It's a moral one. I don't know what that means. And I don't know how, it's not a religious decision, it's a moral one. I don't know how you compare that to, he's not anti-vax, he's against vaccine mandates. I don't know how that all squares. If they don't, if these people don't speak for him, and if they do speak for him, if these people don't speak for him and if they do speak for him, it indicates it's a evolving thing,

evolving thought. I don't know. I would just say that I wanted to ask him that. And I also wanted to ask him, Kyrie, do you still want to play in the NBA? Yes or no. Do you still want to play in the NBA?

Because if he had gotten vaccinated, he probably has a $170 or whatever, $180 million contract extension. When I say probably, I'm not making an assumption. Sean Marks, when they did the deal for Kevin Durant, said, we hope to have Kyrie and Harden signed by the start of training camp. That means they were going to offer him the extension, and Kyrie did acknowledge

that they were talking about the extension. And I mean, you can say that money doesn't matter and that he's got a lot of money and that's all fine. But we're talking about, I don't know what half his salary is this year, $16, $18 million. And we're talking about a $200 million decision here. And so I would just say to him, do you still want to play in the NBA? Is that still something you want? Because I don't know. His actions are indicating that he doesn't. But until he articulates this, and frankly, Ryan, he doesn't done a very good job of articulating his positions in the past. I think it's all like actions speak louder than words. I almost really don't even care about his words anymore.

You're either going to get vaccinated or you're not. You're either going to play or you're not. And after that, I really don't. I mean, if you donate money or donate your time to a charity, that's an action. I understand it. But I don't really think that words from Kyrie...

I think he's constantly... I think we're constantly going to be left in circles looking at the ceiling trying to figure out what he's talking about. All right, let's transition to everybody's other favorite NBA player, Ben Simmons. Why is he back in camp now? Think about the opportunity, the trolling opportunity that existed the other night if Kyrie had been in Philadelphia and Ben shows up at tip-off.

Can you imagine if Ben and Kyrie had posed for a photo like outside the Wells Fargo Center? Like just arm in arm, unmasked, because it doesn't seem like Ben is fully vaccinated based on what we're seeing this week.

Based on, oh, he's got to go through a five-day protocol as opposed to a one-day protocol. That's the difference between players who are fully vaccinated and not vaccinated. You can get a shot and not be fully vaccinated because you've got to wait your two weeks or whatever. But can you imagine what that photo would look like?

Especially if they were outside amongst fans, or even if it was in the loading dock. I don't even care. Can you imagine what would have happened? It would have been an all-time moment. Ben, this is a money thing. So when Ben first asked for a trade, November 15th sounds like a long way away. And November 15th is relevant

for this reason. Ben's contract called, as I'm sure you've talked about and know, Ben's contract called for him to get $8.5 million on July 1st, $8.5 or $8.2 million on October 1st. And then the rest of his salary, the back half of his salary would start being paid to him in two-week installments starting November 15th. So very large checks, larger than your checks and my checks, not to make assumptions. And so that's a fair one. Yeah. You know, large checks, but he was going to have the $16 million in his pocket. And he was thinking that even if they find the bejesus out of him, as long as this was resolved by November 15th,

he could negotiate his way out of it. So he thought he had this long runway between really June, which is when he'd asked for the trade for the first time, and November 15th. Well, a couple of things happened. Number one, the Sixers didn't trade him. They kind of called his bluff.

So he extends the bet and doesn't report to training camp. And then they withhold the second payment. And they start taking fines out of that. Then the NBA makes a ruling. And it's still a little bit unclear to me, Ryan, how this ruling came down. But they examined the rules and they said, if you don't show up for a game and you're in breach of contract like this, you don't get fined one 145th of your salary. You get fined one 92nd of your salary. Now, you may think this is all mumbo jumbo and you may not think it cares,

but that's $120,000 difference for him per missed game. And they had a posture where they were like, we're going to take the money out of this escrow account. You're never going to get it. So he went from thinking, I'm going to have $16 million in my pocket and fines I can get back. And the fines are going to accrue at a certain rate, to I don't have $16 million in my pocket. They have $8 million I should have. And the fines are going faster than I thought. And they're not trading me.

And so basically, the Sixers called the bluff and improved their positions. And Ben folded his cards for this particular round. their positions and Ben folded his cards for this particular round. So the real question is, and I don't know when Ben is going to speak to the media or will we have to actually wait and watch, what Ben Simmons is showing up? Is it going to be a Jimmy Butler version where he's in FU mode, where he's terrorizing his team or causing his team all kinds of problems? where he's terrorizing his team or causing his team all kinds of problems? Is he going to be in total laissez-faire summer league run mode where he's just sort of running around out there and not really doing anything and making it hard to even play him?

Is he going to be in kick-ass mode where he's out there playing his ass off and trying to send a message and try to get traded? Is he going to hold in and basically say, I'm here, but I'm not going to play? I don't know how he's going to play it, but that's the next phase in this saga. Once Ben is cleared and is able to play, and obviously the reaction from his teammates will be a story and the reaction from the Philly fans will be a story, but ultimately those will pass. The real next phase of this story is what type of Ben Simmons is actually going to be in uniform or not uniform. Let's get you aggregated. What was the closest they were to a trade? I don't think they ever were close.

I don't think they ever were close. I mean, I talked to some teams who told me some of the things that Philly asked for. And, you know, some of that stuff's been out there. You know, multiple starters, multiple first-round, unprotected first-round picks, swaps. They were asking for him like he was a first-team All-NBA player. And so the teams walked away from it saying, there was, I think, in the last couple of weeks, they were still in talks with teams. first-team All-NBA player. And so the teams walked away from it saying... There was, I think, in the last couple of weeks,

they were still in talks with teams. A couple people described it to me. It was like there was a bit of a softening of their position, maybe a little bit more realistic discussions. But I don't think they were ever close. And the teams that I talked to that had talks with him said that they think that he's not really, when I say he,

Daryl more, he isn't really interested in making a trade now anyway, that he's going through the motion of making trade talks to sort of set the bar and stuff like that. But he's waiting for circumstances to change another player to get disgruntled elsewhere and want to trade. Another player to get hurt or a team to get off to a slow start or a team that was expected to make the playoffs falter out of the gate or whatever.

He's waiting for situations to change because right now he's negotiating in a position of weakness. So Darryl wants to wait until he negotiates in a position of strength. And so that is the impression that teams who negotiated with him got. And so that's what I suspect is what he is doing is he's waiting for the offers to change, be it through an outside force

or through Ben playing and looking great or something. No, it's a really important lesson to constantly remind ourselves that if you're the GM and you're sitting around and you go, okay, I don't have to do this today, and we know somebody is going to surprise us. That's what this league is. That's what it's been the last few years, is that every few months we're going to be surprised again, and maybe they're positioned better, and it ends up being a solution that none of us ever saw coming.

There are two instances, I want to say. There are two instances of teams that had guys who demanded trades uh star players who demanded trades and they just wrote it out and i mean there's probably more than two but two that i can remember in the last 10 15 years one is kobe kobe says i'm never going to play in the lakers again reports they you know they end up um doing the assault trade they make the finals. Kobe wins the MVP. By the way, to remind some of our listeners, I may have forgotten,

he went on the warpath for an entire summer. He was going on shows. I mean, he went, I remember I was at the Orlando draft camp when it was happening, and everybody was like, did you hear him? I mean, that was his defiant and determined,

and then it was like, no, we're good. I remember, my memory may be flawed here, i apologize people could take this apart i seem to remember there was a show it might have been a call-in show was it steven a's local new york or something like that he called in yeah the interview let me end it and then he called back it's like by the way, what just to me, you know, um,

I do think I remember him calling into Stephen a, um, so all that happened. And, um, um, then there was Dwight Howard who demanded a trade. Um,

and the, the magic were willing to do it. Uh, and then like three or four days in the camp, I know I was there. They changed their mind and they said, you know what? We're going to do it. And then like three or four days in the camp, I know I was there. They changed their mind and they said, you know what? We're going to keep them. And they,

I think they told Dwight we're going to keep them. And it was a rough patch, rough days. And, but eventually they got on with it. And I remember Dwight midway through that year, like in the middle of the night, picks up his option for the next year.

Yeah. That was the weirdest thing I was going to remind you you but you remembered he picked up the option and then demanded the trade anyway like that gave you a little well it was a real window yeah but it was yeah it was a real window into dwight it was like you demanded this trade it it got really weird you didn't get it and then you picked up your player option and then demanded a trade again later. And then got it. But yeah,

what I remember, what I remember about that is he, I think they had played in new Orleans and you know, he was in a happy place with the team and they post one of those photos on the team plane where they all get around each other. And he tells the team on the team plane, I'm picking up my option. And Otis Smith, the general manager,

says, you know what, Dwight, why don't you sleep on it before you sign any paperwork? And so he comes back and no, I'm all good for it. Dwight describes this meeting that the ownership had to get him to sign this. And he's like, they had all my favorite candy. People were like, Dwight, what changed your mind? He's like, well, I went to the meeting and they had all my favorite candy. People were like, Dwight, what changed your mind? He's like, well, I went to the meeting and they had all of my favorite candy. I'm sure that wasn't the reason, but it was just an amazing response. An amazing response. So it has happened before where teams have just held up their hand on a trade demand

and just got their know, ground, you know, got their way through it. So I think that as bad as this looked at times, I want to point out that this has happened so that that's not forgotten on the table, something that could happen here as well. Where are you with the Lakers? I have a policy that I personally enacted that I'm not going to judge them until Christmas because I think that they're going to look bad early on. But when I talk to scouts who are out there watching them, because they've played five preseason games,

and the Lakers are – their team's playing four preseason games and they're spiking two of them with their end of their bench. Lakers are playing seven. So I'm not really surprised that they haven't until Monday night, or I guess it was Tuesday night. They didn't play, um, their big three together.

So, I mean, a Laker fan is going to say, well, we haven't played our guys together. Okay. Um, I got it.

Um, but, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm talking to the scouts and they're like, this looks terrible. Their roster doesn't fit.

You know, it's not, I don't think it's going to work. And I've got people out there going, I'm worried for Frank. I'm worried for Frank Vogel that they're going to blame him for this. Now, I will point out that now they have two injuries to wing players.

And those injuries that two surgeries are reza and horton tucker have surgery out for a long time they're going to be out for months and um so that kind of buys them a little bit of a a little bit of a window if they don't get off to the greatest start also their schedule is very favorable. So I think they're still going to be good. But my concern is when Carmelo comes out and says, if this team doesn't win the title, it'll be like the 2004 Olympic team not winning the gold. And I was like, ooh.

First off, Melo, I wouldn't bring up the 2004 Olympic team. It's the only blemish on your Team USA resume, and your Team USA resume is great. Secondly, I wouldn't set the tone if this team is going to be an all-time dominant team. They could absolutely win the title, but they've got some things to overcome. And so if this team starts 6-6 or 5-7,

I don't know how that's going to be reacted, even though the last two years in Houston and in Washington, Westbrook started very slowly. I'm expecting a slow start, but I know that the

world, and the Laker fans especially, a lot of them at least, they will see the photo from media day where the six guys who they think are going to be Hall of Famers are on the team and they will think, 70-12, let's go. Will we even lose one game in the playoff series? Because there are fans who felt that way.

So I think they can win. I think they can win. But why? What do you think? I think it's going to take them a while to figure out the personalities and the rotations. And there's going to be a couple of people that are really pissed off and it's going to suck for Frank. And if LeBron and AD are still healthy, I think they'll win the West. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, if LeBron and AD are playing at the same level that they played at last year at their best, because we know when AD got, when LeBron got hurt, when he had that ankle injury, I think they were second in the West. Yeah, their start, the first whatever, 30 games was a 26. I forget. I'll look it up here. But their start, I was like, okay, this is how good they are again. And I know the roster isn't perfect.

There's some wing stuff. I think what they're going to do is they're probably going to play nice with some of the older players and give them kind of fake minutes. And then we'll start to see that closing group be identified a little bit later on. Well, how much are they actually going to play LeBron and Westbrook together? That's what I want to see. Yeah.

I think Westbrook is a great addition for the regular season to help them get through stretches where their energy is flat or one of the other two guys is missing. He plays hard every night. I'll give him that. The only thing I'll say is that no matter what you want to say about him the last two years, hell or high

water, whosoever was healthy, they were a great defensive team. When Anthony Davis got hurt last year, and they went through that period, and then LeBron got hurt on top of it, and they were both gone, but when Anthony Davis got hurt when he came back, their defensive numbers actually minorly improved.

They went from the fifth-best defense to the third-best defense. And Frank Vogel, no matter what you want to say about it, he has gotten them to defend since the day he got there, whoever his personnel was. So if they defend the way they defended the last two years, then everything's on the table for them. And even if Westbrook is throwing the ball

into the third row five times a game, they'll be able to survive it. And even if their three-point shooting is a little off, they'll be able to survive it. My question if their three-point shooting is a little off, they'll be able to survive it. My question is, with 12 new players or whatever it is, whether he can, and some of them are defenders, whether he can bring that defensive mindset back. Because that is, to me, you know,

they won the 2020 title with defense. I mean, defense and Cantavia's Caldwell Pope three-pointers. That was their push them over the line. And so if they defend, sure, sure. But it's just hard to know when your whole team is brand new. Yeah, it's 22-7.

So I remember going back and they had another little run. I think they were 28-13. I thought that was a really good team last year. And I don't love everything about it. And I still think the top of it is really good in the West, but it's so much unknown. Like Denver's probably still going to have a really good record. I think Utah is going to have a really good record.

You know, golden state. I still hold out hope for it because you saw Curry carry them and you need some other pieces are coming back, but it's, I think it's hard to make like a really forceful argument that picking the Lakers is a mistake. I still like Phoenix a lot.

I think Phoenix might be a safer bet, but then you're basically betting Chris Paul's injury against Anthony Davis's injury history. So what do you want to do? At least Paul's still playing.

But I've got to wrap up here. Who did you have coming out of the East then? How am I supposed to know? I think Brooklyn's the best team. Brooklyn's the best team. I mean, how can you say different? But I don't know what's going to happen with them.

You know? Giannis looked pretty good in the finals. They got to be happy right now. Milwaukee's got to be in a good place right now seeing this stuff go on. Hey, man, thanks a lot. We'll catch up again soon. All right, take care.

I'm lucky enough to get to talk to you a few times. And my number one rule, whenever I have somebody say, Hey, I'm interviewing McConaughey, I was like, just make sure you say Matthew, because he corrected me on that years ago. And if you think you're vibing with him a little bit, you don't say Matthew, he's going to let you know. And I thought it was cool as hell. And I got to let you know, because, uh, my mom who's about to turn nineties in the other room and, and, and, and she let me know that on the kindergarten playground, when I, when I answered to somebody who said, Matt, you want to play on the, on the monkey bars? And I said, sure. And all of a sudden, next thing I knew I was on the ground looking up going, what just hit me? And it was my mother going, what's your name? I named you that for a reason. Don't you ever answer to Matt again. So yeah, it was because it set me straight.

It was right during one of our ESPN radio deals. And I go, you know, because a couple of guys like, hey, I got, I got, I got them coming up. I go, here's the first thing you need to know. You know, going through the book and listening to a bunch of interviews, you know, now it's on paperback. One of my favorite things about your story, and I feel this way about people is that if you're you, you're, if you're yourself long enough, then people kind of figure it out. Do you think it took, whether it's Hollywood or the world that's consumed you as so many have consumed your work and everything, it took everyone on the outside to catch up to you and what you're about? That's a great question. Look, Eddie said, sometimes you change by staying the same.

I don't know who said that, but there's something to... Have I changed? Have I grown? Have I evolved? Have I bogeyed? Have I birdied? All that stuff, sure.

But there's certain things about me that I've never changed from the beginning. I mean, I remember getting out to Hollywood. Hey, got to change your name. You know, not from Matthew to Matt, but let's get rid of this McConaughey. How do you say that damn last name? I was like, no, no, no. So we can get started. That's not an option no matter what. Not changing my damn name. If I work out and get successful, people will learn how to say it.

Cause you know, it's McConaughey rhymes with what would Madonna say I got put that on me to have them to be able to say it right you know let me put that on me to be able to succeed or not enough to where people will know how to say it for instance um you know came out you know you hear whispers hey you got that sub you got that southern accent let's's neutralize that. I was like, okay, not for a role, yeah, but in life, no. I'm not playing another part in real life. I've been trying to close those gaps between, we all got a gap between who we think we are,

who we intend to be, who we actually are, how someone receives who we are, and how it gets edited. Well, it's the same way in movies. I got an intention of what I want to do. Well, there may be a gap between what I want to do and what I'm actually doing. There may be a gap between what I actually do and what gets recorded on the camera. And there's damn sure a gap between what I initially do and what gets put on the final film, edited. I'm trying to always close those gaps. And I've worked on being as much my true self as i can be along the way i love the beginning stories you know the origins because any

of this cool stuff right any of this stuff that's hard there's those moments and you know texas guy ut you know like everybody read everything about you and you know okay law school or we're thinking about it what was that transition like when you go, you know what? Like, for me, it was always, I knew the things I didn't want to be. But what was it for you when you said, okay, I'm actually going to give this a real go? And the people around you, what was that like? Well, so I'm in my sophomore year of college, University of Texas. All I've ever thought of being or expected to be to that point was to be a lawyer.

I really, really wanted to be a defense attorney, criminal defense. And that's all I ever thought about. And hey, if I could pull that off, great, you know. But all of a sudden, come sophomore year of college where you got to start looking at, hey, these credits that I'm getting, they better be directed in one lane because it's not just liberal arts anymore. They have to be directed towards law school. And if I change my course schedule later, I'm going to lose credit. So I'd been writing. I'd been writing short stories,

keeping journals and stuff like that. I only had one friend, Seth Robbins Bendler, who I went to high school with. He had gone to NYU film school. He's the only friend I had the courage to send him some of my stuff. I thought, I don't know, what do you think? You know, and he would always give me a good opinion. I wrote back, I said, man, this is really interesting stuff. You're a really good writer and these are great creative stories.

And he's the one that first said to me, and you ought to think about getting in front of the camera too. You got good charisma. You got good character. And I was like isn't it true too like even if you really want to do that you're embarrassed to say that you want to do it before you've done it right i was and i mean it would be part embarrassment it was part of for me who do you think you are even even dare to think that could be a real vocation?

You know, it goes back to that call that I made to my dad when I call. I've got the courage to say that I don't want to go to law school. I want to go to film school. I thought he was going to say, yeah, on Saturday. Take that up as a hobby, buddy. You know what I mean? You want to get into the arts? Yeah. Okay. Saturday afternoon hobby. But right now you get a nine to five job, work your way up, go to law school. He didn't say that. He told me the three great words, don't half-ass it. And it gave me a lot of freedom and incentive to go chase down storytelling, which I didn't even, I couldn't admit when I went to film school that I wanted to be in front of the camera. It was sort of a hedge.

I got into the film behind the camera business. Did I really want to be in front of the camera? I think so. I just couldn't, I couldn't even admit it to myself. So it was a way in. And yeah, I was making films. Other classmates were asking me to be an actor in their short films, which I was really happy to do.

I think I was better at it than I was behind the camera. It was quick, though. I mean, it's because I love everybody's struggle story. But I mean, I think you finish up school, what, around 93 days is 93. And so that stage of trying to figure it out. And I know the shot location is maybe a little bit different. But take me through that timeline, that part of it, deciding, okay, I'm going to LA, but it's like, holy shit, I'm actually in this pretty popular movie. It shouldn't happen this fast.

Check this out. We make Days of Confused in the summer between my junior and senior year. Three lines turn into three weeks' work with a character named David Wooderson in Days Confused. I go back to school, graduate my senior year. As I'm about to leave and I've got my U-Haul loaded up and 2,000 bucks in my pocket to drive west, young men in Hollywood, because the movie Days Confused is now coming out and that'll be my resume.

I decide to take this role and I get this role in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Next Generation. 320 bucks under the table a day, man. Let's do this thing. Shooting in Pflugerville, me and Rene Zellweger. It was a hoot. Got to have a mechanical leg and play a tow truck driving bad guy who's looking for the batteries for the remote that runs his mechanical leg. I was like, oh yeah, this sounds fun. So I do that for a month. Now I reload that U-Haul and I head west with that $2,000.

I go sleep on the couch of the man I met in the bar in Austin who got me the job, cast me in Days Confused, a year earlier. I get out there. Look, my first audition was for a film called Boys on the Side. I ended up getting that job. a film called Boys on the Side. I ended up getting that job. My second audition was for a film,

a Disney film called In Hollywood. This is in Hollywood after Dazed, after Chainsaw. My second, first audition was Boys on the Side. I got the job. Second audition for Angels in the Outfield. You know what the damn audition was for me? I walk into the producer's office to go meet about a role. It's 2, 2.30 p.m. on a Tuesday on the Warner Brothers lot.

The sun was hitting the door that I was going into the meeting in, in the ground floor. As I opened the door, I'm backlit. I see this bearded guy on the couch leaning back. He goes, ha ha, look at you. I go, yes, sir. He goes, all American kid. I had a white t- on the couch leaning back. He goes, ha-ha, look at you. I go, yes, sir. He goes, all-American kid. I had a white T-shirt on, American cap. I said, yes, sir.

He goes, ever play baseball? I said, 12 years, sir. He goes, ha, you got the job. That was it. All of a sudden, they're paying me schedule left, $48,500 to go play baseball with Carney Lansford in Oakland for 11 weeks. I'm like, please, possible? Is this legal? And I went and did it. So I didn't have that struggle story of trying to get work and not able to get work. And it just fell out. That's how it fell in line for me.

The rom-com part of it, which again, we can get to the mcconnison so i'd like to take it any direction that you haven't already done a million times which i knew was tough you know a book and we're learning about your stories you know by the way uh ghosts of girlfriends past i have an ex-girlfriend that's in that movie with you oh yeah he is it's a scene with a lot of women so i don't know if she stood out but she's's the blonde that asks or says, you never called. She walks up to you and she goes, you never called. I believe I know who you're talking about. X-Tor, is that what you said? Yeah, X.

I don't like the way you answered that, though. What I was going to say is this is part of my memory. My recollection goes, you have very good taste, Mr. Slough. We went to go see it when it debuted. And I was like, all right, I'm going to try to pay attention to the movie and also her. Let's see if I can read anything here. But I still feel good about it. I still feel like I was okay.

You're killing it in these movies, you know? And this is what I admire about you. Because I think anybody that's like you. I mean, look, we can use the term artist loosely here for this context. Let's just use it. I don't know that anybody starts out saying like I have writer friends. I don't know that they start out saying, I hope I can do a sitcom on a network that I'm kind of doing layup jokes on. I think everybody wants to show that part of them off. And once you decided, okay, I've crushed it. I've made a ton of money. I've

done all these things. It works. This is the formula. I can do this the rest of my life. How difficult was it for the people around you to understand that you needed to make this pivot? Yeah. So you're talking about, I'd had four rom-coms in a row and all of them did pretty well. They were rom-coms in the Hollywood studio system at that time. They're mid-budget, which would be about 30, 35 million. They were rom-coms in the Hollywood studio system at that time. They're mid-budget, which would be about $30-35 million. They were making about $65-70, which makes the studio really happy. They're making money. They're entertaining. They're fun.

They're lightweight. I'm enjoying them. They're paying for the rent at the beach houses that I'm running, surfing shirtless on. the rent at the beach houses that I'm running surfing shirtless on. That is part and parcel being documented as a real-life side story rom-com. Like, oh, he just comes off the beach shirtless and walks on set and says, what are my lines? And that's what it was looking like. Now, mind you, I didn't have any problem with that. I'm like, you're damn right. Right. Now, mind you, I didn't have any problem with that. I'm like, you're damn right. I've worked to get the money to pay the rent in a place where I can live and go shirtless and surf and run down a beach. Thank you. But at that time, I just met my now wife, Camilla.

Well, I'd met her earlier. I'd met her about a year earlier, but I was falling in love. And enough so that we decided to try and make a baby. And we did. And she just had our first child, Levi. So, do you have kids? No, I don't. Okay. Well, any fathers out there, y'all know, man, you have your first child.

Man is never more masculine. I mean, the vitality and the clarity where the head is in sync with the heart is in sync with the spirit. I mean, it gave me courage to go, look how vital my life is. I've got such more meaning in my own life. I have more rage. I have more sadness. I have more joy. I have more happiness.

I mean, I've got dependence now in my life. I have more rage. I have more sadness. I have more joy. I have more happiness. I mean, I've got dependence now in my life. And I was feeling so alive in my real life that I was also like, but in my work, I kind of feel like I could kind of do it tomorrow morning. It's another rom-com. They're going to build light. The stakes are not high in rom-coms. They're not supposed to be high. They're Saturday afternoon flip-flop characters. And I said, man, I wish my work could challenge the vitality of my life that I'm feeling now. Well, where do you find that as an actor? In dramas.

So I go to my agent trying to do dramas and every studio's like, nope, don't want McConaughey for that. You stay in your rom-com lane over there, McConaughey. And I'm like, what about this one? I'll take a 400% pay cut. Nope, still don't care.. You stay in your rom-com lane over there, McConaughey. And I'm like, what about this one? I'll take a 400% pay cut. Nope, still don't care. Stay in your lane in rom-coms.

All of a sudden, I'm like, damn it. If I can't do what I want to do, what if I quit doing what I've been doing? Well, big decision. I call my money manager, said, how have I saved my money? Because if I make this move and say I'm not doing rom-coms, I might be dry for a while. I'm going to be in the desert of work. I might not work for some time. He says, you've saved it well. You can afford to do that if that's what you want to do. I call my agent. He says, I got your back. Whatever decision you make, I'm behind you. I have a long teardrop session with my wife about, wow, this is a huge risk. And she knew I meant it, knew me well enough to know why I meant

it and said, okay, you do this. She repeated my dad's line to me. If you're going to stop doing rom-coms and you're going to commit to that, don't half-ass it. And she knew. She was like, this is going to get wobbly. You go on with that work, Matthew. She knows, man, I need work for significance. I need work to keep my compass. And she goes, it's going to get wobbly. You without purpose every day. I have a vocation. She goes, I'll be here to support you. Just, we're not going to pull the parachute. You're going to get like, I got to go back. No matter what, she goes, what if you never work again? What if you just took a one-way ticket out of Hollywood? And I looked in her eyes and

looked at my own eyes and said, I'm going to find out, but I'm not going back and doing any rom-coms right now. Well, it was dry for 20 months, just under two years. I mean, the first six months that I said, I'm not doing rom-coms, everyone thought I was bluffing. That's all Hollywood sent me was rom-coms. I read those scripts. When I'd read them, I'd say, thank you, but no thank you. I got a story in the book about that one that came in with the $8 million offer. As I read it, I was like, thank you, but no thank you. Came back with a $10 million offer. I said, I don't need to read it again. No thank you. It came back with a $12 million offer. I said, no thank you. They came back with a $14.5 million offer. I said, let me read that thing again. It was the same words, Ryan, as the first one, as the $8 million offer.

The exact same words, the exact same script. But somehow at $14.5 million, it was funnier. It was more well-written. It had more angles. I saw more possibilities about how I might be able to make this baby work. Anyway, I ended up saying no. Now, when I said no to that 14.5 offer, I think it sent... My hunch is that it sent a lightning bolt through Hollywood that goes, Oh, he ain't bluffing. McConaughey's not bluffing. He's really not doing wrong. He ain't bluffing.

McConaughey's not bluffing. He's really not doing wrong. Well, after that, no, everything stopped. Nothing came in for over a year. For the next 14 months, nothing came in. I called my agent every week. What do we got? Anything he's every week. Buddy, I have not even heard your name.

I bring up your name before I finish saying McConaughey. They go, no thanks. I'm like, okay. About 18 months into this sabbatical I'm on, I'm? They go, no thanks. I'm like, okay. About 18 months into this sabbatical I'm on, I'm starting to go, maybe I did write myself a one-way ticket out of Hollywood. I need to think about new vocations. What about a high school football coach? What about a wildlife guide? What about orchestral conducting? Hell, I don't know. Well, as life has, as soon as I started to be okay with not going back and realized I might have written my one-way ticket out of Hollywood, the phone rings. Well, guess who's now an interesting and novel idea

for a drama like Lincoln Lawyer, like Killer Joe, like Paperboy, like Mudd, like Magic Mike, like True Detective, like Dallas Firestuff, like Bernie. McConaughey. Why? Because Hollywood was like, after 20 months, it's like, where is he? What's he doing? We haven't seen him in the theaters in a rom-com. The world hadn't seen him in their living rooms. We haven't seen him shirtless on a beach. Where is he? What's he doing?

Created some intrigue. Now, all of a sudden, I became, you know what would be an interesting idea for these dramas? McConaughey. So I unbranded in 20 months. So then when the dramas came my way, I attacked them and rebranded. I want to, I've been trying to figure out the best way to ask this question.

And so instead I'm going to ask it with the limitations of hoping to just get the answer I'm looking for. Because I interviewed before Interstellar and I remember being like, all right, Christopher Nolan, let's get in there. And then you've got Scorsese, Wolf of Wall Street. Give me the Scorsese-Nolan comparison, the difference, the things you think about when you talk about two of the most creative of our lifetime. Nolan. It's a general. First up the hill, last down the hill.

Also, really funny. No, no, no, no, no. He's got a great, great dry sense of humor. He really calls, calls shit like it is. You know, what he does

is create universes and rules within these universes and puts them on screen. That's coming from him, him and his brother sometimes, creating this alternate universe and takes us in and he introduces us to the rules of this whole new universe. You're like,

this is, he's writing science fiction and it's in the it so he creates an entire world he's and he's really really really good at scope i mean nobody can really know he's one of the probably the best at doing the large scope of the epic scope of the size and then when he's his best, he does the wide size of this universe and then comes in and makes it personal.

That's when he's his best is making it really personal as well within that universe because it's easy to get lost and as a director, I think sometimes in those movies

where you have a huge scope, it's easy to lose like, well, yeah, but who am I going through it with? Who's my character? Who's my lead? Who's my relationships I care about?

Now, let's go to Scorsese. Man loves funny. His direction to me, as far as I remember, did not involve one word in the English language.

It was music and comedy. It was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was his, he talked, it was all music. We're going to, so I was like, what is it? We got into the scene. He's like, well, we're going to be over here and the camera's going to be like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'd be like, yeah, okay. I got it. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. Yeah. How about'd be like, yeah, okay. I got it. Boom, boom, boom. Like, yeah, yeah. How about it? Do it. That's, that was our relationship from director to actor.

And I loved it because if you don't want us to talk music or just do notes and make sounds to me without telling me what to do, I'm like, I got to hear the rhythm. Yes. Let's roll. Um, and then again, you know, you go work with people like that. You, you're always looking for, what's the magic sauce? Is there something that, that they're going to reveal to me that i'm going to oh never seen before that's their thing and the answer is no there's not a magic sauce i've noticed it when i've worked with the best actors in the world they don't have a magic sauce that you go oh that's how they do that.

They just know what they do and they've learned ways that they do it well. And they concentrate on that and really do the things that turn them on really, really well. They don't have a magic sauce that you're like going, oh, no one else has that. I don't know. No one else sees it that way. No one else perceives that way. No, it's a great answer. And I appreciate you taking us there because I couldn't quite figure out how to perfectly word it. And I know in my business, which is cool, but it's not cool. This is stuff you guys have done. There'll be times you're like, I wonder what it's going to be like to work with this person. And almost every time it comes down to this guy busts his ass. That's it. He busts his ass. He works, works, works. Heard. What's that? I said heard. Yeah. That would it. He busts his ass. He works, works, works. Heard. What's that? I said heard.

Yeah, that would be a consistent thing. Yeah. I thought you meant cowherd, and I was like, look, he's good. But, you know, because... All right. That's... H-E-A-R-D-d like sight seen here yeah no i was like that's great

like a huge cowherd fan um speaking of see i was i was out to dinner with colin on friday and and we like to talk about the business you know at at probably pointless levels so i'm going to ask this kind of a fan question of you. So when you work on Wolf of Wall Street with DiCaprio, you've probably known each other, run into each other. Will you just randomly get a phone call or a FaceTime? Can you guys have the relationship where you can just check in on each other

unannounced for no reason? We don't have a, we don't have a, I wouldn't, you know, we've been in similar places and had some good times together, but I wouldn't call us like running mates or we don't call each other every month or anything like that. I reach out to him. He'll respond.

If he reaches out to me, I'll respond. But that comes along. I think Scorsese had seen mud. And I think that's where it's from. Anyway, I was on my way to lose and wait for Dallas Buyers Club when I went and did that. And I think that's where it's from. Anyway, I was on my way to lose and wait for Dallas Buyers Club when I went and did that. And I was down to about 153. And I remember that I'd heard from him, from someone else saying, can you not keep dropping weight right now?

And I was like, okay, I won't lose any more. But this guy I'm playing, I read the scene. And he says the secret to this brokering job is cocaine and hookers. I'm like, I can be on the thin side because this guy's wired. So I went in and got that job. It was a two-day job at that one scene where we're in the top of the tower having lunch with me and Leonardo. I didn't really know him that well. I respected his work and still do,

but I'm stepping into a Scorsese movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. And they're already a team. They're a well-oiled machine. All right? So do I have that anxiety? Damn right I do. But the story behind like me chest pumping yeah that's something I do and was doing on that day before the scene to relax to get my voice down

and to hopefully have the entire crew going who's the freak over there because I wanted to feel like I was on an island I wanted to put myself out there alone with people. I needed it to get the confidence to overcome feeling of anxiety of being in this movie with Leo and this Scorsese movie in this scene that I know needs to sing. And we had done the takes without the chest bump because I never did that in the take. We'd done five takes. It was done. Scorsese's happy. I'm happy. We're moving on to something else. It was Leonardo's idea. He raised his hand. He said, hang on a second, Marty.

He goes, what's that thing you've done before? That chest bump. I told him, what if you did that in the scene? I was like, sure. What you see in the movie is that next take. I love that story. I love that story because you said something in there that was really interesting too. Those guys have been attached to the hip now for such a long time. And it's like, Hey, you know, I want to show you some of my moves here too. me and you got a lead in Leonardo who's already got his grip and ways and working with with Marty and he comes up with an idea that he that's like a point guard dishing a player the ball he dished

me the ball and said I'm gonna hit you for the layup what about that thing you're doing before the scene what if you did it in the scene that's cool collaboration I know there was a friendship there with Matt Damon is he still upset about not getting cast in Magic Mike? I don't know, Damon, you're going to call in and let me know about that, babe. Hey, come on now. I've seen you with the shirt off that, uh, he must be, he must still feel a pinch about not getting cast in Magic Mike. I mean, that's probably why, yeah. Last time we talked, he was probably a little, a little gruff with me. Yeah. I mean, that's probably why, yeah, last time we talked, he was probably a little gruff with me. Yeah, because, again, I couldn't confirm it or not, because he was like, it's not that I didn't

get cast, it's that they didn't even think of me. And... Yeah. He's doing good work. He's always been doing good work. So, one of the other parts of the book is getting to the side of you. I've got a couple more things I want to do here before we finish up.

When you were younger and clearly the freedom of not having a family, just going, hey, I'm going to do this. And you head down to the Amazon for 22 days. What happens at that stage of your life when you are famous enough and you show up with a couple shirts and a bag and go, hey, I'm just, I'm out here doing this. What's the reception for you at that stage of your life? Here you go. And it's the reception I was looking for and what I needed. Look, you get famous. All of a sudden the world becomes a mirror. You get famous. What's the hardest part for me? I don't meet strangers anymore. Everyone's got a biography on me before I've met them. They're coming up saying, I'm sorry about Ms. Hud. And I'm like, wait a minute.

Number one, you didn't know my name. How'd you know I had a dog? How'd you know her name was Ms. Hud? And how'd you know she had cancer? You just skipped four informal things of invitation and stepped into my life. Now, you get famous, you get successful, you get, I love you. You get pats on the back. You're so great. I needed to go see what a what's bullshit and what's real. So I want to go someplace in the midst of my fame. I want to go someplace where nobody knows my name, doesn't know me from John Doe and I'll show up and all they,

all their only and sole measurement of me will be who they met when I got there. We'll never talk about what I do. They've never done to them in the movies, nothing. And then when I say goodbye, 22 days later, and I'm hugging the people I'm with, and they got tears running down their face, and I got tears running down my face. And I got tears running down my

face. I know it's based only on the man they met 22 days ago. No mirror, no biography, no baggage. Oh my gosh, Matthew McConaughey. None of that. It's only based off of who they spent time with in that 22 days. It's a form of finding anonymity, form of me checking in going, oh yeah, 22 days. It's a form of finding anonymity, form of me checking in going, oh yeah, I know why I got it. I know why. I know, I know, I know. Now I understand why I'm getting some success. I know where it came from. I got it in me and I needed that. I needed to have to go, okay, that part of you is real. You're still, that's, you're, that's who you are, Matthew. And you know, am I saying that's all the reasons that I've been successful? No.

But I needed that real check-in that wasn't measured by fame. For my own significance and worth. The last thing I want to ask you about, it's a little more personal. And it's maybe, I don't know if it's a deeper thing or not, Cause I don't think there's a large number of us that have the same, same deal. And I know your timeline's a little different than mine, but your parents had been divorced a couple of times and married a third time. Right. And I, and I know that that happened, you know, you were, you were the youngest, my parents, I lost track, but it, it didn't, the divorce didn't take until about the sixth attempt. but it didn't, the divorce didn't take until about the sixth attempt.

And I grew up with it as the oldest. And I know that no matter what your upbringing is, there's certain things. I don't love blaming parents for everything because I don't think it's entirely fair. In some cases it is. And you can have divorces that is the best thing that can happen to the kids and whatever. But I think there's something that at least happened to me. And I don't know if it, it makes you a bit of a fighter. It makes you think you can fix everything it makes you it's kind of a romantic because you see this this love that's full of tension right and i and i know you're younger but do you think

that had anything to do with making you fix what you didn't like about your career having you be what i think is your biggest attribute is how sincere you are. Do you think that kind of shaped you? Because you have a unique parenting situation, which was certainly the case for somebody like me. It just doesn't happen that often. Right. Man, it might add something to do with it.

I mean, it sure as hell informed me that it's like, and I think you get this, this is what I hear people like about the book, which is it's not over, man. Don't fail. Take more risk. Mom and dad, get a divorce. Can't live with you. Last six months. Let's try it again. Go another 10 years. Get a divorce. Can't live with you. Go by another years. Get a divorce. Can't live with you. Go by another year. I can't live without you.

But without sentimentality, it's like, yeah, that's what we're doing. We're trying it. It didn't work. Then you try it again. Who's keeping score? Oh, we'd have been divorced twice. Oh, shit, yeah. Yeah, whatever.

That one last one felt like a vacation. Anyway, we're back together now without sort of psychiatric therapy on it or what's wrong like no you just you just you deal with the problems it's hard you deal with that you get back up and you take another risk let's try and make it work again so i think maybe the definitely something about taking risk and not feeling floored by failure. Not feeling like, oh, you know how it is, man. When we fail, we got to watch that our mind, when our mind starts to go, and this is the mean. This is now how it's supposed to be.

Bullshit. In the same way, when things are going great, which I'd rather prefer to go, and this is the mean. This is how it's supposed to be. I get reminded all the time. No, that's not the mean either. But I think, you know, looking in my own marriage, look, not many people know this. Camilla, my wife, her parents were married twice, divorced three times. They ended up divorced. They ended up divorced.

Mine ended up married. So we both came together and we're like, we got some reasons to like question this whole marriage thing. And plus at the time before we decided to get married, which we were together a long time and actually had two children before we did. We were like, why do we wanna switch this thing up?

What we're doing, it's going well. So we had to come to terms with both look at marriage in a different way than our parents did. But also, we didn't judge it. Both of us were like, look at these awesome love relationships our parents had. Talk about can't live with you, can't live without you. And just getting back up off the mat. Doing it again. Let's try it again.

Not about pride. I love you. Trying to work this thing out. I don't know. I'm sorry about that last one. I voted. I shanked it. Let's try it again. I think that in there inherently is where maybe a lot of my embracing risk problems come from. Yeah. I really think it is because I think there's a part of you if you grow up with that kind of situation you're just like all right well i'll fix it like let's fix it i remember some early breakups that'd be like well we'll fix it and be like no this is over man and i'm like what are you talking about no no you you fix it yeah yeah yeah well and there you go you know um

it's it's you you find the right one i mean you find the right one. I mean, you find the right one or you got enough of a connection and it works enough for the both of you that when something does get broken, you don't go, it's over. You go, ah, no, there's enough. I got it.

When we're together, I think we say this in relationships, we have someone like that. When you're together with someone, you're like, no, when it's good, it's worth more. It's worth sticking with the picks. It's worth getting back up and going, let's do some maintenance. Let's work on this. Let's keep it. Let's try and stay in the game together when the good times and the true times are worth it.

I want to thank you for the book, but thank you for always sharing your stories. And I really like what you said there at the end, people keep in score. The amount of time we spend worrying about other people keeping score of ourselves is a complete waste of time. And you're never a bad time to hang out with here, man. Greenlights out on paperback, Matthew McConaughey. And of course, thank your mother for us all. I'll do it, Ryan.

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I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Okay, just Kyle and I today, which is really, let's not kid ourselves, we only want Kyle on Life Advice. Life Advice email is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com.

Do you play golf, Kyle? No, I mean, we've been over this. I'm scared. I'm scared to do it in a public setting. I mean, we've been over this. I'm scared. I'm scared to do it in a public setting. I'll go to Topgolf. I told you I would give you a really decent set of spare clubs. I know. And that was like a year ago.

I don't think I've seen you since the year before you said that either. Yeah. I still think somebody from the ringer stole my new balances that StockX sent me to. I think we can arrange an exchange. Yeah. No. The sneakers have nothing to do with you the golf clubs are on me i could have invited you and titus down at some point but i didn't um but that's not really because i don't like anybody i guess i just i'll realize i don't

really hang out with anyone so all right yeah but then i do hang out with people because that's not entirely true either i kind of say that and then i'm like all right now i'm gonna hang out with people all right here we go. Our guy's checking in from Laredo. No need for measurables. Not ideal. I've been a golfer about two decades. 20 years, kids. Still not any good, but shoot low to mid-90s. You know what? That's

fine, unless he's doing kind of the round down thing. It's probably over 100, but I don't know. If you're shooting bogey golf, it's probably a little frustrating if you've played a lot over 20 years and you're not in the 80s more consistently because I've seen guys that don't look like they're great athletes that just play a lot, figure it out, and can shoot in the 80s

regularly, but bogey golf's not exactly a bad time. Problem came up as I'm playing with a friend. I normally give him a few strokes, but he's not far off in my skill level. We went out recently. I was playing well. Ended up with an 85. Nice, nice.

My friend, on the other hand, had the worst day I've seen him have since picking up the game about 18 months ago. Beat him by 40 strokes. Wow. So he shot a 125. My question is, how do you handle rising tension

and general pissed off attitude in the cart between shots? It was a Sunday and the course was on the slow side, so we had a lot of time to kill in the cart and at the tee boxes. Normally, I try to laugh it off and find the bright spot in his game, but it just wasn't there and he was becoming more upset.

And as any golfer knows, that almost always leads to worse play. Any help for dealing with this? This happens to everybody that plays golf. I don't play at all anymore. I played this past week at the Vineyard Golf Club, which shout out to them. I appreciate you letting me get on for a quick, I don't know, I think I played like seven holes

because it was raining. And my brother's there. So it was kind of cool to be home. And my brother had never golfed before. So I was like, hey, look, let's get out there and swing it around a little bit. And it just reminded me how much you actually can love it even when you're not that good at it. But I also know myself and I also know I'm super competitive and I'm hitting a couple of bad shots, literally not playing on a course in a couple of years. And of course, my brother's younger than me, so he's not allowed to get mad at me. But I wasn't happy after a couple of shots and I had to be like, Hey, what'd you expect? This is a really, really hard game. This is a really hard game. But that's not normally the way you feel. So I remember,

I think the last time I played in something for real, it was a tournament, you know, best ball. So I'm good to have around for that. Um, even though I'm not that good and I hit a couple of bad tee shots, which is what I was there for. And my buddy's like, wait, are you going to get pissed today? Like you don't even play anymore and you're going to get mad. And he was kind of giving me a warning. He was really looking at me, giving me a warning. Like you, are you going to try to carry yourself? Like you have this expectation that you're just going to come out here and shoot like

in the eighties or just, you know, we're going to be using your ball throughout the entire day. You're here for about five tee shots, hopefully. And that's the only reason you're here. And he was right. He was right. Um, because it's really, when you're not. And he was right. He was right. Because it's really, when you're not good at it, to then get mad is really about something else.

I can accept being mad about some things every now and then. When it comes to golf, like some guys that are pretty good, they get some money on the line, somebody wants to throw a club. But if you're throw a club kick the cart be mad swear after every shot it sucks to play with it just sucks to play with you because then you're then you're kind of just doing like this performance thing um and so to handle this i mean if you're that close enough friends you can say i would think you could just say, Hey, you know what, man? Like, and it sucks. Cause you can't like do it out of the first tee box. Cause then it rattles him. And he's going to be a mess for the first few holes anyway. And then he's going to blame you for bringing it up. I think you're going to bring it up in a softer manner. Like my buddy did it to

me directly. Cause he knows I like direct where he's like, wait, are you going to be mad about bad shots today? Is that what you're going to do? You never play. And he was right. And it reset me. And I go, you know what? Relax. Just be happy I'm here with my friends. But I guess I'm giving myself credit for being able to adapt to that because I don't know that everybody's going to handle that the right way because I don't know what this guy's about. But I would maybe in a playful way, the next time you're out maybe having beers, not golfing, maybe a third party, maybe there's another friend that's part of the core group here.

You bring him out. Maybe you bring two guys out and you guys just all start bullshitting about whatever. And then it gets to the golf episode and you just start going, man, you were on one last week. And then you talk it out with him a little bit, right? So that it doesn't feel direct, but it's exactly what you're doing. And everybody starts giving each other a hard time. And then, you know, as the beers flow, you can start saying, I don't know that I can

golf with you again, man, if you do that. And then, you know, as the beers flow, you can start saying, I don't know that I can golf with you again, man, if you do that. And so these things will be planted, implanted into his head so that hopefully if he's a reasonable person, the next time around, he'll remember this, even though it was playful. It didn't feel accusatory. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't you being as mad as you are and being annoyed by it. Like I had a friend one time we were playing and look, we were, I was bullshitting. He started taking golf more serious than I did, and we weren't playing for any money.

And he was like, what did you have on that? I was like, I think I had a six. And he's like, you had a seven, Ryan. You had a seven. And then he counted back the strokes. And again, I wasn't even trying to cheat for any reason at all. I just fucking didn't care. And I was like, I think I had a six.

He's like, you had a seven. You had a seven. And I was like, man, that's some pent up shit there. Like, what's going on with that? He's like, well, you don't always keep score. I was like, because think I had a six. He's like, you had a seven. You had a seven. And I was like, man, that's some pent up shit there. Like, what's going on with that? He's like, well, you don't always keep score. I was like, because I don't really care. I go, I wasn't going to tell people if I shot a 90. Now, at this point, when I was playing with him, I definitely didn't care.

The time when I was decent and had a membership, we cared and we kept it straight. But I wasn't better than the other guys. So I didn't play for money anyways, because I was going to lose. But I was like, wait, you're're really really mad about this whole thing so golf people could get you know they can get really mad about a bunch of different things i don't think you're wrong in this one i think you're right but if you do it off the first tee box hey you were an asshole last time don't be an asshole again today then you've basically ruined the round you've ruined his day even though it doesn't seem like you could ruin anything beyond if you shoot a 125 um i would i would do it playfully if there's some other guys kind of plant the seed that,

hey, that wasn't the greatest time, but do it in a way where it feels like you're just busting balls so he doesn't get all bummed out, defensive, and offended. Kyle? I don't know. I don't know about any of this. I think I would actually just take your advice because I don't have any to give. Okay. That wasn't a great Kyle one, and that's my fault, Kyle.

So you understand that, right? I think people come for the Kyle. Maybe they come for the Ryan, they stay for the Kyle. I think that's probably what you learned. That's apt. That's probably apt. Yeah, right. All right.

So let's turn up the heat again. This one's, I don't know if this one's, it starts off sad. It feels sad, but maybe you can be happy too. Who knows? 39, 6 foot, 195, can do 12 straight strict pull-ups. I don't know if this one's, it starts off sad. It feels sad, but maybe you can be happy too. Who knows? 39, six foot, 195. Can do 12 straight strict pull-ups. It's great.

Kind of in between dad bod and fit. Married seven years, younger daughter. Just bought a house. Just got a huge hammer dropped. Wife does not want to have sex with me anymore. She said she gets anxious about it. Doesn't want to have the pressure of that part of her relationship. Sex for us is pretty standard, nothing weird. Usually maybe once or twice a month, which I was totally fine with.

But now she said she wants zero. I do not think there's another guy because my wife basically has been asexual for a while now. She doesn't mention good looking men on TV. There's some other stuff in here I'm just going to leave out, but I think you guys get the picture here. Um, when a guy hit on her at the gym months ago, she was weirded out by it. I'm basically a broken man. I'm frustrated and upset. It's extremely hard not to think of it.

It's another guy, but I don't think that it is. She works from home all the time. And the only time she ever goes all out is with my daughter. Uh, very rarely has a girl's night out talking once a year, maybe here. So I assume cheating is not

there. We've discussed options like divorcing or an open marriage. She says she feels bad that she can't fulfill that part of our marriage and encouraged me to go out on a date, basically an open marriage. I don't know what to do. We just bought this house. It's really great. My daughter loves it. Um, close to family. I love seeing my daughter every day or growing up. This is very important. We both make six figures. I'm in the low end. She makes close to double and plans to make much more. High rent area. So he's talking about if he divorces, his budget isn't really going to work out because real estate right now, and as we all know, some of you real estate guys out there, we all know this part of the podcast. You guys are your favorite part. But yeah, real estate's insane in some of those desirable places like we've never seen before in the country.

So he's basically saying like, look, I could move into a co-op if I want to move out. My wife and I joked about me retiring 15 years and just taking care of the house. But I feel like that's down the drain. I don't think in my 40s I would be back on the scene. But I guess that's where I'm headed. Any advice would be appreciated. Love the pot of things. Well, some guys are hearing this going,

it's on, man. You're living the dream. But that's not the case, right? There's some real emotions here. It feels like everything with the family part of it was fine. Even if she were willing to only have sex once or twice a month. I will tell you that

hearing the stories from different friends long term, Kyle, does it kind of blow your mind when you talk to older people? And I know that I'm older since I've never been married. But when you'll talk to people, they'll be like, hey, it just stops. You just stop doing it. How common, how often that happens. And I would say to the single guys listening, how horrifying that happens. And I would say to the single guys listening, how horrifying that sounds.

I don't know what the truth is. I feel like some things feel like myths and they're not. And I don't really talk to many older people about what the frequency is with sex once you get to a certain age. Or I know the myth is after marriage, but then I know in the beginning after marriage, but then I know in the beginning of marriage, it's cool. But then I guess it's a gray area for me. And I've heard

conflicting things through TVs and my very few conversations that I've ever had with somebody in the 50s, 60s. I guess 50s would probably be more, 40s, 50s. So I guess I don't know which way it could go. It just seems like a pretty shitty dice roll and it could either like stay good or go really bad. So I guess I wouldn't ever say that I've had a read on it, but I just, I've got conflicting responses. Okay. Well, I'll tell you right now, it's not a myth. All right. I have too many friends now and you know, I'm definitely older than you. How old are you again? I'm 27. Right. So, okay.

I've got like two decades on you now. I'm telling you it's not a myth. I mean, it happens. But until you experience it yourself, it always feels like this fable. You're like, wait, what? What happens? Like the situation with Ray and Debra and Everybody Loves Raymond

where he's just like begging and it seems like it happens once every four weeks for him. But then and it seems like it happens once every four weeks for him. But then sometimes it seems like it happens more often. Everybody Loves Raymond? Jesus. I didn't watch that show. Okay. That was a go-to for you?

Were you a big King of Queens guy? No, I was actually not a big King of Queens guy out of spite because I thought Everybody Loves Raymond was so great. Okay. Alright. Fair. Fair. Okay. So this is true. And clearly this guy's writing about it. It's true. I think the biggest thing, man, is

you can't be so upset with yourself. First of all, right? I mean, unless there's something that you're not admitting to us, which is, you know, can be the case a lot of these times. We're only getting one side of the story here. But if we're to take this the way it's being presented to us is i know this is devastating because you want the family part of it like you don't want to just move out um but yeah it does

feel weird i mean that's that's got to be kind of weird like you come home and your wife's like how was your date and she has no problem with the emotional part of this where you'll become emotionally attached to somebody else or you're not allowed to be emotionally attached you can only be physically attached but then once you become physically attached a lot of times you do become emotionally attached and she's okay with all of that stuff so it's not just that she decided she just doesn't want to have sex anymore about it which again you know you've got to deal with um i think the part where she's totally okay like i'm, I'm wondering what she says

to divorce if it's even discussed. If you say to her, I'd like to be divorced, is her response no? Or is her response like, yeah, totally, I get it. That's fine. Is she that detached from it? Because now we're talking about something that's beyond just withholding sex. It could just be that she doesn't want to be with you anymore and any one of my friends that um has either been divorced or talked about it because i think it you know probably creeps into most relationships you know it's somebody at some point even the stronger marriages there'll be a some rough patches there where you're like wait is this not going to work out um i never really quite know so i don't pretend to have the answer to this, again, as a non-married, non-parent.

But the calculus of how much do I do for my family, how much do I do for the other person, how much do I do for the relationship, and how much do I do for myself to make sure that I'm still happy? Because I think that last part's the one that's the easiest to ignore. happy because I think that last part's the one that's the easiest to ignore. Um, you know, I personally, you know, uh, can, can understand like a family fighting to stay together, but sometimes fighting to stay together is really the worst thing that you can do. Um, I think it's great. And, you know, being a parent, um, immediately gets you out of your own head. You start thinking about this other person, the bullshit that gets you caught up in all the just the day to day nonsense, like none of it really matters anymore. So it's easy to get through that stuff because you get something that really matters that you got to get up for every day and make sure you're creating a better life for. And there's there's a selflessness in that I think is the beauty of being a parent and all that kind of stuff. being a parent and all that kind of stuff. But it doesn't mean it has to be 0% about you.

And I, I think, you know, some of the experiences I've had with my own life and, and other friends, it's like, you can't, and maybe this makes me sound selfish, but if it's 50% about your daughter and 25% about the marriage,

you know, it's still, it's okay to have that number be higher than zero about yourself. So really what I'm saying here is I would figure out where is she on the marriage? Because if it's not just sex and that she doesn't care if you're not there the next day, then you're going to be in a relationship with somebody that doesn't even want you around because you love being around your daughter and it's because you don't want to be in a relationship with somebody that doesn't even want you around because you love being around your daughter. And it's because you don't want to live in a shittier house.

You know, I would live on a couch before I would live in a shitty living situation. Um, but again, I don't have a daughter, but I've always felt like, you know, kids,

kids are smart. Kids are around you every day. You know, they're your third roommate or depending on how many kids you have, you know, growing up in a house where that part of the top is strained, I think people will say, again, this is my own experience, but people will say, hey, stay together. Kids stay together because the kids stay together. It's like, yeah, that's not always in the best interest of the kids.

So I would figure out the wife part first, man. Honestly, I would need a more definitive answer on where she's at with you hanging out with other women. If she has no jealousy whatsoever, that's weird because then it would make me think she doesn't even really care about you. And I don't mean to be so brutal about it, but this email feels like it's more about something else than it is just a sex part. Now, if she's cool and she loves you and she's supportive and she wants you in the family and all that stuff's good. And you're going to be out on the scene at 40. All right. You know what I mean? Good luck.

It's going to be, there are enough challenges. If you haven't been sharpening the iron out in the scene for over a decade now as a 40 year old guy, not to bum you out, but it's real. Um, you could get on a dating site, but now that means her family and neighbors, somebody is going to see it and they're going to be like, what the fuck's going on here. Um,

and you're going to have to find somebody who's down to hang out with a guy that actually has a family where it's not a Don Draper situation, unless you look like I'm going to be fine. Uh, so there's, yeah, you get some stuff, but I would try to figure out the first part of this first. Any thoughts, Kyle? Not too many.

Not too many thoughts. I will say I am a child of divorce, so it's not the 50s anymore, dude. You can get divorced if things aren't working out and obviously you're writing a podcast about it. You're definitely thinking about it, which means you're probably thinking about it every day, which means it probably makes your days pretty shitty.

And I think that's one of the grounds for divorce is when all of your days are shitty. But yeah, it's not the 50s anymore. You can totally do that. And I guess I just kind of have more of a question. I would hope you'd accept a follow-up here. He said that she's basically asexual. So I did a little Google search, wound up on WebMD.

So asexuality is actually, it's kind of a muddy water situation. It seems like you can say the word and it could be a sexual orientation or it could just be the absence of sexual feeling. So it's just like, I guess I'm wondering, because the first thing I was going to say is, did you have a conversation about it? It sounds like he did where he was just like, listen, this is something that bothers me. I've noticed we're not having sex. So like that hard, awkward part is out of the way. So he did that he was just like listen this is something that bothers me i've noticed we're not having sex so like that that hard awkward part is out of the way so he did that i guess is it something where it's just not gonna happen right now like i've dated somebody who's like had like a tough sexual past where it's like sex sex was like a bargaining chip or or whatever like they

just have weird feelings about sex but it sounds like this is like simpler as like i just don't have any sexual attraction to you. So have you actually come to the conclusion that this is just never going to happen for you? And maybe, not that she would be into taking some sort of pills or chemical reaction things, but have you already come to the conclusion where it's just like, this is how I feel? Not like, yeah, I don't know why I haven't been feeling it lately. Have you really done the hard conversations if you're talking I guess they must have if they're talking about maybe going on dates and stuff I guess yeah this is fucking tough it feels like all of this is you're right whoa wait Kyle you just dropped the divorce bomb on us all what because like it's like it seems like that's one of those classic things like

yeah so if she doesn't have any sexual attraction towards you, it doesn't mean she doesn't care if you're spending your time with someone else and enjoying inside jokes with someone else. And I don't know. It's going to be really hard to balance that coming home with kids. And then also you have to spend time with her because you still like her as a person. You just can never get to the sexual thing that you guys both used to have. So it's like,

I don't know. Like, it seems like one of those things where she's going to say, yeah, it's fine. And then it's not going to be fine. And then your life's going to suck for other reasons too. So I don't know.

I think sex is a big part of a marriage. I think you should get divorced. Kyle, just not, not mincing words i uh i'm not ready to offer up any more on this because i think there's a large part of the audience it's like you two idiots should shut up uh about this totally we should never talk about any of this stuff but that's part of the segment i mean and honestly it's not like this guy is like a lot of people who's like yeah i've been thinking about this a lot like he's had the tough conversations he's he knows what she feels about he's not like i'm wondering what she's

gonna say about this she told him this the stuff that you'd never expect to be told like which means they must have been at least a couple conversations in so like he's he's done but this stuff happens you know you're right you're totally right but i just think it's always important to remind yourself that, you know what, there are all sorts of relationships that have all these, where I'll hear about a divorce. I'm like, what? And then a buddy will tell me about something else. I'm like, what's going on? And you're always kind of like, I can't believe that's crazy. And then you start to realize like it's crazy when it isn't crazy, right?

The crazy one is like, no, I'm totally neutral. Everything, I'm just,. Everything, I'm just very content. Just a nice, easy, slow stroll through the park for the next 30, 40 years. Kids are good. Got to get to good schools. No college loans. And like, oh, so that normalcy is actually the the odd thing of all these different relationships. But I would just emphasize one more time. Don't

feel bad about you wanting to feel better about your situation, whatever that solution is. Reminder, check out the Bill Simmons in-house and myself NBA Preview Podcast two-parter. All 30 teams over-unders are finals picks,

awards picks as well. That's in the Bill Simmons feed. I will tweet it on this one. Thank you, Kyle. As always, we'll talk to you Friday. Outro Music