The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NBA Trade Deadline With Adrian Wojnarowski | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

Live from radio row in Miami, Russillo is joined by ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski to talk about what we can expect from the upcoming NBA trade deadline, getting to know Kobe Bryant toward the end of his career, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode live from south beach miami home of super bowl and for those of you that go to live every time i see the liv i'm like i can't believe how much money lives spent on this super bowl and it isn't because those are Roman numerals. But it's just, you know, good old Liv joke. Good content right there. Still trying to stay young. Today's episode of the Priscilla Podcast and the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable.

Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. The T-Wolves not being very good is that expected is it unexpected uh they're not very good they don't have a point guard right now shabazz napier lebron's favorite draft pick a few years ago and then he left miami after they took him still some hurt feelings on that one all the way around but that's uh that's what i'll go with on that i was actually hoping to go to the heat celtics game last night did not happen got in a little bit later get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today.

So we're live at Radio Row, and Woj is going to join us. Adrian Orznarowski. We're going to talk trade deadline with him, but we are also going to talk with him about getting to know Kobe. Obviously reporting the story on Sunday like a lot of people were, but he was really, really close with Kobe. He wrote a piece about it. So it's mostly going to be trade deadline stuff.

I'm sure by the time this comes out, you know, look, I just wanted to share that stuff with him. But I'm now, I think, trying to think how many Super Bowls I've been to. I've been to six with Van Pelt, two with Cannell, and then post-Cannell when they were like, hey, we're not sending anybody to the Super Bowl except for three other shows. That's when I kind of knew the writing was on the wall. I was like, oh, wait, you're not sending anybody except for the three other shows. So I want to talk a little bit about Radio Row because I did two Pats ones early when I was in Boston. We did Houston.

We did Jacksonville. I talked about meeting Master P, and we had a Celtics logo on our business cards for our radio station. So I gave it to Master P, and then Master P thought I worked for the Celtics, and he was trying to get into the NBA. And that was pretty fascinating because Master P was being really nice to me because he thought maybe I would be able to influence the decision on whether or not the Celtics would give him a contract. And believe it or not, that was not the case. They weren't going to listen to me if I wanted to give Master P a two-way. They didn't have two-ways back then. Houston, then Jacksonville, which was basically a walking fight because it was Philly fans in a Super Bowl and Pats fans only at their, what,

second one or third one? Yeah, yeah third one so those are the early ones but the first one i did with van pelt this is always kind of one of the things about radio row like everybody talks about how much they hate it but if you're a guy that's on the air and nobody says hey do you want to come on my radio show then you're gonna hate radio row not because you're like oh i don't want to go in there. Everybody's going to bug me. Oh my God. All these requests. Where were you guys at?

At Tallahassee? Yeah, maybe I'll give you five or 10 minutes, but I don't have all day, guys. I'm serious. Everybody would walk around. You'd get to a certain level in your career and all the guys that were the big, big guys, and definitely not me 10 years ago, people would be like,

ah, I don't want to go over there. But you kind of had to. Like, especially when you were launching into a radio show, if you're doing a podcast, like you kind of wanted to go over and like, see, because that's the thing about being on the air or being any kind of public figure. Everybody can talk about how they don't want to be hassled and how they don't want to be recognized. But you know, it's way worse when you're a public figure and nobody recognizes you and nobody wants to talk to you and no one cares and then you start lingering around i don't know the el paso affiliate and they're like actually we're we have a guy from a barbecue place on and we're gonna have to bump you because it's part of our buy-in it's part of our promo um one of my favorite things about radio row especially back in days, was when famous people would come by to promote something.

We've got Busy Phillips running around here right now. Jesse James from Monster Garage. And I always liked Jesse James because I love that show, Monster Garage. I remember actually having those season DVDs in my Netflix queue. That's how old that show is or how old i am but i always appreciated the discovery let jesse james host a tv show when he wasn't like a raging like who was who was the guy what was that mtv dance show not club mtv but eric and then he ended up being on seinfeld oh dan cortez dan cortez there was like an m MTV show that he was on. I'm going to look it up right

now. We're going to get it on this, but Dan Cortez had some weird TV show. And I just remember being like, that's what you have to be like to host television shows. Like that seems weird. And I'm not, I'm not dumping on Dan Cortez by the the way, at all. What's the show? Dan Cortez, early career. This is all on the fly. Rock and jock? No, I felt like there was some sort of other show. He was great.

He was absolutely great on Seinfeld. But what I'm telling you is that he had this thing, and then when Jesse James got to do it, look at this renegade. Like, they said that he used to bench press 405 and beat people up when he was at some JUCO school. So I was like, man, this guy's like the real article. And he was like a jerk. If you screwed up on the show and your welding sucked, he got right on you.

Like, that wasn't some feel-good show. It was like, let's get the job done. So Jesse James showed up to Radio Row to promote, I think, Monster Garage, probably around that time. And he was so annoyed that anybody was talking to him. And he was giving everybody dirty looks. And I was kind of trying to wave him down to get him on the show. And he was pissed off. And I remember being like, if you show up here with all of these shows at the same time,

and then you're annoyed that people want to talk to you, that's really more your fault. But yeah, Van Pelt and I had a South Beach stage. We didn't even have to come to you that's really more your fault um but yeah van pell and i had a south beach stage we didn't even have to come to radio row full tv staff freelancers people running you food it was incredible and then fast forward about like eight years in san francisco canel and i had a picnic table near an exit sign with not one piece of signage like zero there wasn't even a fucking poster that said ESPN. And I was like, you know what? I don't feel great about my own personal growth. And that's just those little things you have to be aware of in life. Like if you have a rental car, you know, with your company doing some pharmaceutical and the next thing they're asking if you could maybe use a bird scooter all weekend

to stop by your doctor's appointments. You may want to start getting on ZipRecruiter. There you go. That's a free ad for ZipRecruiter. You might want to check in and get your resume up there on ZipRecruiter because you, as I say, the people around you will tell you what they think of what you're doing. They just may not say it to you. Before we check in with Woj and all the latest trade deadline stuff,

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Woj, we're a week away. It feels a little slow. I would never suggest that I know nearly as much as you do. Obviously, I don't. So where are we at right now with what kind of trade deadline we could be looking at? Yeah, Ryan, it is a little slow, but it doesn't take long for things to get in motion. Typically, there's a rhythm to these deadlines. And you have one or two early deals way back.

You have one or two early deals way back. We saw Utah jumped out early and did the Jordan Clarkson deal, which really propelled them with Cleveland. And then now as we get closer, you start – what's interesting is what's typically been going on all year, teams have been calling teams about the same players. Teams generally know who's interested in a player they have or players they have, but the offers aren't very good yet. And now the offers start to get more serious, and that's what you start to hear from teams this week. That's what you start to hear from teams this week. Okay, now the people who really want a particular player are starting to increase their offers or making offers for the first time. They've just been checking in.

But you know what happens typically is people are afraid to do deals too early because they fear that if they had waited, because they fear that if they had waited, either they could have gotten more for their guy, or they miss out on another deal that all of a sudden somebody else becomes available, or they can get a player closer to the deadline. And that's why you typically see in the last three hours of trade deadline, you know, 10, 12, 13 deals, because it's a deadline-driven business, and teams, nobody wants to jump too early. But sometimes you find out like, hey, what we want is there. Like, we're going to do it now. Why wait?

Maybe we're not going to get better than this. Maybe the offer will get worse. And so, you know, there's that cat and mouse that is going on, you know, throughout in any sort of trade deadline lead up. How much do you think the price is impacted by what feels like, I don't even know how many second tier guys there are that are being discussed? It's not to knock the names, but the names are all complimentary pieces. Certainly not somebody that would change the course of any franchise here.

Well, I think that that's the thing, Ryan, and what there's plenty of teams who are competing to make the playoffs, who are, who are contenders who would love that complimentary bench player role player to, you know, improve them down the stretch. What are you willing to give up for that and uh you know the days of the first round pick for a rental those are largely over like if you're going to trade uh look at the jordan clarkson deal right two second round picks essentially to cleveland you know but jordan clarkson's a player they could resign even though he was an expiring deal they could resign him in utah he's a player they could resign. Even though he was an expiring deal, they could resign him in Utah.

He's a player they could go forward with. I think there's always less of an appetite. Here's an example for you. Toronto, Masai Ujiri. Marc Gasol's going to be a free agent. Serge Tabaka's going to be a free agent. My sense is Masai would rather keep trying to win with them, get in the playoffs, see how far they can go, get Pascal Siakam some more playoff experience. That's still a battle-tested team with a lot of talent.

And if you're Masai and you look at their draft track record, and I think this is true like in Oklahoma City too, when you've shown that you can find players in the second round, you can bring in undrafted guys, you can get guys all over the scouting landscape. What does the 25th or the 27th or the 28th pick mean? Like, is that worth breaking up your team, moving out of Marc Gasol, for example? The answer is no. We will find players here. We've proven that. That pick doesn't have a great deal of value to us.

And who knows, maybe because there's not a lot of cap space out there for a veteran player like Gasol or Serge, then you can still re-sign those guys at the end of the year when they take a look at the market and go, geez, what I thought was out there may not be there. Maybe I stay here on a lower number on a one-year deal or a two-year deal. not be there. Maybe I stay here on a lower number on a one-year deal or two-year deal. And I think, Ryan, especially the teams who have veteran free agents, players who are expiring deals, I don't sense a panic that we have to trade them right now. We're not going to get anything

because they can do side and trade with those players this summer. Look at the teams who have cap space, Memphis, Atlanta. Now, Atlanta would like to improve themselves. Cleveland. These are younger rosters who aren't necessarily looking for that 30-something-year-old free agent this summer. And so if you're Danilo Gallinari, you may need the Thunder to help you with the sign-and-trade to go to another team. And a sign-and-trade allows Oklahoma City to get something in return. Maybe it's a young player. Maybe it's a pick. Maybe it's just an expiring contract to get you through the year, whatever it is. So I think the sign-and-trade market is going to be significant

this summer. And I think that's taking some of the pressure off of teams now who, at the trade deadline, aren't going to be scared to not move a guy who's going to be unrestricted in July. Yeah, no, that's a really important part of the Gallinari thing and going, you know, there aren't a lot of teams in the cap space. You know, do we need to move somebody now? I think the Thunder are actually a great team to just kind of be more specific on, at least as a question, though, because with Paul, with the way they've played lately,

and who their four are, like when I look at their four, and I even think Schroeder's been better this year for them too, and they've got a couple other question marks as young kind of wing players that I'm sure they'd love to upgrade,

but how much has their success this year maybe changed what some of their plans were, even though I've kind of felt like all along, once Paul was traded there, it wasn't automatic, he was just going to get flipped somewhere else because that contract you know the only reason he was really traded is because it was traded for another massive contract so i'm just wondering how much maybe their philosophy has changed or maybe the way other teams are hearing when they call them about their guys i don't think their

philosophy's changed ryan i think that they're still going to look at the long view here. And if they, I think we can all agree that there's probably no trade for Chris Paul right now. Does that look different in July? Maybe with two years left on his deal. Maybe there's some teams who look differently at it. But I think both Chris Paul and the Thunder will resign to the fact that he was going to play this season out. He's been outstanding for them. Probably an all-star, very possibly an all-star, and he's been really good.

He's been good with their young players. He's been good helping them win games. It's been a net positive, I think, based on how people thought maybe how Chris might feel about this. Chris has been outstanding in every way for them. But, you know, Steven Adams, Dennis Schroeder, like Oklahoma City knows like that's not the core of their future championship aspirations, right? That's not. But those guys are under contract through next year. And so if somebody comes to them and there's a deal that like just

gives them a lot of return, they're going to do it. Now, if they don't really get anything out there that moves them, they know that they can revisit that in the summertime. Those guys will have a year left on their deal. And typically there's more trade options in the offseason or on the draft than there are at the trade deadline because not everybody knows where they're picking. It's easier to make deals outside of the season than in season and so uh oklahoma city i think is just in a position where i do think they think like they

would really enjoy being in the playoffs and getting in and i think they're going to be in the playoffs it's hard to imagine unless they make some kind of just absolute free fall like they're going to be in the postseason when you look at where the west stacks up right now i think given everything that happened last year or over the summer i think they really like that idea i think they've enjoyed this team i think their fans have enjoyed this team like they're not worried about facing a lottery pick they've got every pick from now until uh we're old and gray they have like one out of every three picks until forever right so right but i think that they'll move any of those guys

but what's going to be the price like what can they get for them and so like they know who's interested in their players they've been hearing from, like a lot of teams who have guys who are available on the market. And then what happens between now and next Thursday is, what do the offers look like? What do the final offers look like? But the Thunder are in a pretty good position to just say, yeah, let's finish Deer out with Schroeder. Let's finish it out with Adams. Get in the playoffs. Enjoy that.

And then we get these guys in the offseason if that's what we decide to do. So I think their plan has stayed the same. I just think the success has been sort of incidental to that. Right. That makes sense. Okay, let's look at the two L.A. teams because part of me thinks, well, does it increase? That's something we kind of do from the outside,

and probably we make those mistakes at times. We're like, wow, they're going to be even more motivated because maybe their biggest competition, depending on what you think of Utah or Denver, but that both L.A. teams are looking at each other as maybe a Western Conference final showdown, and that might motivate them even more. I don't know if that's necessarily true,

but how important is it going to be for either of those teams, maybe even more so with the Lakers seeing some of their issues lately, trying to add more depth and just maybe add depth to prevent the depth from going to the other team? That's right. And this isn't going to be a trade deadline one. Darren Collison, that's a player, if in February Darren Collison definitely decides he's coming back

and he's been moving toward that, those are the two teams he held most likely that's where his focus is is staying in la playing for one of those two teams both of those two teams will be interested in right and so if you get darren collison not only do you add him you he doesn't go to the other team and so like it's a high stakes arms race between the lakers and Clippers. And I don't know that there's going to be any wholesale big boost for either team. You know, they've listened on Kuzma. They have talked to people on Kuzma.

The hard part with Kuzma is he just makes a little over $2 million a year. And that makes the buildup of a trade hard. You've got to match up the salaries in a trade. Hypothetically, if you were trading Kyle Kuzma, you're bringing in an established veteran player who's probably making, I don't know, seven times that, eight times that, ten times that, whatever it is. What's the buildup of contracts for Kuzma that allows you to not train away your depth. You know,

you have DeMarcus Cousins, his contract that you could throw in, you have, you know, you can look around the roster and figure it out. They, they, you know,

they've got multiple picks going and pick swaps going to new Orleans, obviously going forward. So, and I think it's not just the Lakers, but look at Boston, Philadelphia. Those are teams where, like, Boston, for example, would have, like, that Tyler Zeller $10 or $11 million contract in the middle of the roster that they could throw into a trade and make the money work on somebody. They don't have that this year. And so, like, when Boston's looked at deals, it's like, oh, boy, we have to put Marcus Smart in that. We don't have that this year. And so when Boston's looked at deals, it's like, boy, we'd have to put Marcus Smart in that. We don't want to do that. Does that make us

that much better at center? And what do we lose with Marcus Smart? We don't want to trade Marcus Smart. We don't want to trade Gordon Hayward for a marginal increase. Let's say hypothetically the center position. So it makes it harder for them. Philadelphia, same thing. center position. So it makes it harder for them. Philadelphia, same thing. Like, are they going to trade one of their core guys? Like for, like, they don't want to trade Al Horford. Like they need Al Horford to try to beat Milwaukee in the playoffs. And so I think for, and the Lakers are in a little bit the same situation. It's the buildup of contracts to make the financials on a deal work. It doesn't make it, it's not impossible, but it makes it harder.

And you don't have like sort of some natural fits there. And I think that's been a challenge for like Lakers, Boston, Philly, that you talk to teams who talk to them or you talk to them, like that's a challenge. I think Kuzma's there. I don't know that there's a deal there. That's, you never know. But he's, you know, he had a deal there. You never know. But he

had a slow start with the injury and then once he came back, it took him some time and he had some great moments. He played really well when LeBron and AD were both out together. And so I think it's probably unlikely, but listen, again, you never know

what comes up in the last day or two to Dudley. And all of a sudden the team makes somebody available who wasn't available. And then you have something to think about. And that's why teams are always sort of look, you know, they all have contingencies on their boards. What if somebody calls us with this? What if somebody calls us with that? And they've talked through good front offices, have through all those possibilities of what a player would be worth to them when someone calls them at two o'clock on trade deadline day they've already mapped out what they would be willing to give up for that player how much they think he's worth the fun part of this is very often that does happen

and that's why you see these deals that sort of come out of nowhere uh because somebody made a late decision and said yeah we're, we're moving off this guy. And so that's what makes us fun here the next week or so. Let's do Philadelphia's least favorite topic. And I know you're not a huge fan of the speculation stuff here. But they look at it as, hey, maybe we're a bucket away from playing in the NBA Finals. That's assuming a lot against Milwaukee. So I wouldn't necessarily do that. I've watched

them with Embiid and how much I love Embiid, but I've said this forever. He and Simmons, it's unfortunate that he's two really special young players, and I'd put Simmons probably back in that group because you've seen how he's flourished away from Embiid. He's not perfect. He's different, but it's a bad matchup. It's a bad

matchup with two guys. Would there ever be, and I don't know how you want to answer this, and maybe you'll shut me down on this, but it's a bad matchup. It's a bad matchup with two guys. Would there ever be, and I don't know how you want to answer this and maybe you'll shut me down on this, but I feel like in a way there were teams that had given up on Ben Simmons. So if Philly were ever going to, say they had a bad exit this year, say they were like, let's kick the tires and see what the market is for Ben versus Embiid, or even if they wanted to flip it around, what would it be? I would think at the very least, this helps remind some of the teams that seemed like they were out on Ben Simmons, the basketball player. It reminds them of how special he could be during this run away from Embiid playing.

Yeah, you know what happens, Ryan, and I think teams are guilty of this. All of us are. Sometimes you're focused on what guys can't do, what they don't do well, and then you go, wait a minute, but this guy does and ben simmons is an example of that he doesn't shoot and it's it's a glaring flaw but his strengths are what this they're the same strengths that led him to be the number one overall pick in the draft and to be a max player to be an all-star and and right you've seen he's been on a great run here i i think that listen it listen they were very close to getting to the nba finals with a team built around those two players yeah and it was only last year and i think sometimes

you take a step back and you go you can change a lot of things around i think typically, if you follow history, you're going to change and try to change things around them before you change them, whether that's roster, whether that's down the road, whether it's coaching, whatever it is, history tells you that before you break up two players like that, you're going to make sure that there isn't an optimum environment or compliment to them that allows them to win at the highest level. And so I just think that's a last resort. And like, this is a team that came really, really close last year, breaking through. And I think you keep trying to build off that, even if at times there's rough it it doesn't look good it it's there's there's acrimony involved and all the things that go through it typically you're not

going to get value for talents like that if you put them out in the market you're just not and like five you know five nickels don't equal a quarter and when you trade a player like either of those it's it's hard to feel like you've really replaced them. And so, I just think it's the last resort. I think you would see changes around the edges. Continue to be trying to figure that out before you move off two

guys, especially two guys who are under contract for a long time. It's not like one's coming up on free agency and you go, well, we've got to make a decision. They're both under contract for a long time. They don't have to do anything. Which players, can you share with us maybe this info or maybe it's some players you can,

like which players are actually getting the most calls? Like which guys are like, all right, these teams are constantly checking in about the availability of this handful of guys? Because the names, as we said before, it's not necessarily the most exciting names, but it feels like it's a lot of the same guys, if that's fair. Yeah, I think it's kind of impossible to measure, Ryan, because the guy

who's getting the most calls in a league might be somebody you go, yeah, that guy's like the 10th guy in somebody's ride. There's certain guys who just, they fit a certain role that they're not a high-profile player, but teams want to get at.

I do think New Orleans, people would like to get at their guys, and so far, David Griffin has wanted to continue to see how their pieces play around Zion. Drew Holiday is a player that teams would love to get at, and boy, he had a game last night that was pretty remarkable. You know, his best game since he's come back from that recent injury and certainly the best game he's had with Zion out on the floor. And so I think, and again, Drew Holiday's under contract for another year, and then he's got, I think, a player option the following year.

But teams would love, listen, everybody would love to get J.J. Redick, and they're not trading J.J. Redick. They've got a team here with Zion back that they hope can make a run at the playoffs, but certainly it's fun to watch. He's under contract another year. You can just sort of – there's no pressure to have to do something at the deadline. For all these teams, typically if you want to move any of those guys going into the last year of their deal or last year they're under you control them under contract like you do it around the draft you do it in july

free agency maybe when somebody strikes out on a free agent and then okay let's they go let's look toward a trade uh i i do think new orleans is a team that you know drew holiday is a guy that any team who's trying to win a championship like like he fits in, just two-way player and great character guy. Thus far, he has not been available to anybody. What's going on with Denver? Because they're always connected to rumors,

but I don't really know other than, you know, I've always kind of made this joke that I think I've heard more Malik Beasley rumors than any single player in the last 12 months. I don't know what they would do, because they clearly, to me, they need, I don't care what the record is. They need to add something that's a more solid third person, but I don't even really know that that guy's available. Yeah. I mean, you know, Beasley and Hernan Gomez are the two players too. They've, you know, I think it's well-documented. Those are two players. They've

had conversations about. They didn't come to an extension agreement with Beasley in the offseason. And so you take a look at how much do you want to pay a role player moving forward. There's a lot of teams who would love Beasley. The one thing about Denver is if they're going to trade, hypothetically, Malik Beasley, they don't want to come out lesser in the deal. They're not doing it like they don't. He helps them win.

And I think Denver doesn't want to do a deal where they just take on something that doesn't help them now. Like they want to get something back that is helpful to them. Yeah, they've drafted Tim Connolly and Arturis Karnishevich and that group. They've drafted so well and developed players there. They have a little bit of a surplus of talent and it's a credit to them. And so they have the pieces to go out and do a big, you know, they haven't done that. They came pretty close to it. I mean, take back 2017, they were part of that three-way deal that was really close that night where Paul George was going to Oh, Paul, let's see.

I'm losing my three-way. Kevin Love was going to Denver from Cleveland. Oh, Paul George was going to Cleveland. That was the Cleveland. Was Love going to Denver or the Pacers? I think Love was going to Denver and Gary Harris was going to the

Pacers. That's been reported. Yeah. Yeah. I remember, I do remember, like, I wasn't starting until midnight that day at ESPN, and it was like nine o'clock. And I remember just saying to one of the people involved, could you just hold off on this deal until midnight? Could you, is it possible?

But that was not. And then it fell apart and they did the Indiana, or Indiana did the deal with Oklahoma City. But anyway, they have been involved in, you know, that would have been a significant deal. But they have all the pieces to do one. But right now, probably more likely is something that gives you, you know, something with Beasley or Hernan Gomez. something with Beasley or Hernan Gomez. And you're right. Do they probably have to do something to get up there with the two L.A. teams?

They probably do, but that doesn't mean they have to do it right now. Maybe it comes in the summer. Maybe they get the growth internally that gets them there, but they probably, you know, how well they're built for a deep postseason run versus how they're built for the regular season, I think is something they're still trying to figure out with the guys they have. This is not a playoff team. I made the joke a couple weeks ago that when I watched Carl Anthony Towns,

I think he's like the most miserable guy throughout an entire game. Your colleague and a guy you've known a long time, Bobby Marks, is like, look, you're one of a five-year deal. So that would be really unprecedented. So Minnesota doesn't have to do anything here. I always kind of think of this like, what's the best way to ask this question? I imagine, and this is always kind of one of those things, like when the Warriors were monitoring it, it became a story. And then it's like, well, clearly the Warriors would be paying attention. Any team would be paying attention to the Carl Anthony Towns story in Minnesota. And then what will happen is the national guy will say that, and then the local

guy in Minnesota will say, you know, check with sources, and they're not moving Carl Anthony Towns. It's like, well, of course. Both guys are getting accurate material here, but it just kind of gets kicked around all over the place as if everybody's trying to say that everybody's wrong. I don't know what's going to happen there with him. I know what other teams are hoping is going to

happen, but it still feels fairly early despite another disappointing season from the Steewolves team. Well, I mean, Minnesota needs to get a point guard. I mean, they've got to get a point guard. And, you know, that's going to be the next step for them. Whether they can get one at the deadline, whether they get one this

summer in a trade, they want to keep building around Carly Anthony Towns. Gerson Rosas didn't come in there to move him at the trade deadline in his first season. I think because, you know, Cat's under contract. And I think Gerson's done a really good job of building a relationship with Cat. I think Ryan Saunders has done that. And I think, you know, of course, he's frustrated with where they are right now. But they've got some assets to move there and trade.

And, you know, Gerson was, you know, they tried to get it. D'Angelo Russell in the summer. They had a free agent meeting with him before he committed to the sign of trade with the Warriors. They're not trading Cat. Well, I never say never. I remember say anything that cut and dry, but I've seen no indication and gotten no sense that they're even open to moving Cat. Now, listen, somebody calls you with some crazy offer and something,

you look at everything, but their intention has been, and what they've been trying to do is to continue to build around them. They've got to find a point guard. It's a glaring hole for them. And so I think they'll stay down that track. And I think Cat's been really supportive. I think Cat's been really, I think he's shown really good leadership this year. with him, but he has bought into a new president GM's vision and coach of how they want to build there and how they want to run an organization. I think he's been really supportive of it. And I think that's shown some growth leadership with him, which is what they need from him.

You're going to be the franchise player. And it's tough to be the franchise guy when you're going through losing like this, when you lose a game like that in Sacramento and you're out losing streak. And I think he's done really well with that. But yeah, I just think Gerson Rosas and Saunders, their view is to continue to try to build around Cat,

who's played really well, and figure out the pieces to compliment him. He's been awesome. I almost feel like because you've been through this and I want to get to your piece on Kobe here at the end, but just to include a couple more teams, I don't really know what Milwaukee would do. I feel like Miami probably

could do some things, but they've been, I think, better than maybe anybody expected. And I love watching, despite some of the heat struggles on the road, I love all the multiple ways that they can try to attack you and heroes come along more and more they've just done such a good job building out that roster like i could see miami having the possibility but also saying hey we really like like all the different versions that we have here even if we don't have that established you know every night number two star i don't even think first of all that star is even available.

But I just, I don't know. I like what Miami could do. I can't imagine they would change it. Whereas Milwaukee, why would you change anything? And I think they're a little bit more limited in what their options would be. Yeah, I think Miami might be more open than Milwaukee to trying to do something big. I think Milwaukee, you know, when you have the best record and you're you're rolling people night after night you're going to be careful to do something that upsets it but at the same time you're still looking going the regular season's one thing are we are you know are there

ways we can make this team better in in a playoff series and uh but i think miami certainly has you know they have some young pieces and oh they can still you know throw a pick in there to try to get another established guy they've done such a good job of developing inexpensive young talent i mean come on we all thought we all kind of left them for dead a little bit when they were stuck with the james johnson contract they're stuck with the down waiters contract and you're like how do they get out from under that how do they and they did and they did it's remarkable they you know you get two players you know bam out of bio and and tyler harrell that you drafted in the teens bam's going to be an all-star uh he's going to be uh he may be the best center in the nba by the time he's

done he's certainly gonna be the top top couple by the time he reaches his prime. And the way that's transformed them, they got Jimmy Butler. And so I think Miami will continue to try to be aggressive to see who's out there, who's available. But you just said, is that player even available? And so they've got to figure that out first. Sorry to jump in, but that's kind of what it feels like. I always kind of joke around with people and be like,

the job is hoping to be even just at the poker table when the next really good player gets mad and decides he wants out um we i don't know who that next guy is like he it's gonna happen because it just does it always does it feels in at least in that category like that guy doesn't even exist i don't you know what mean? So anybody that has a bunch of assets and thinks they're ready to go, it's like, well, why would you waste it on just a guy that may not even be a starter for a good team? And the other thing for Miami is they can have cap space in 2021, and do they want to fill that up?

Do they want to go and sort of, want to fill that up? Do they want to go and sort of, does Miami want to take themselves out of next summer, uh, to 2021 free agency class, um, by doing something now that may be, you know, on balance doesn't justify it. That maybe is only a moderate improvement over what they have. And I think they, I think they'll show some discipline in that way, too, that 21 could be a big free agent. It could be a big class. And Pat Riley still believes, and probably rightly so, that they're a destination place.

And so I think that influences their thinking on what you might see them do at the deadline. Did I leave any teams out? Did I leave any nugget out that I should have asked you? We hang up and you'll go up. He missed this. No, I like, you know how this goes. There's going to be like 11 to 14 deals between noon and 3 p.m.

Or when is trade deadline? 3 or 6 p.m. this year. It's 3 p.m. 3 Eastern, right? Eastern. 6 is free agency. Free agency starts at 6. So it's 3 p.m. I guess I should know, but I think it's 3 p.m. 3 p.m. Eastern, right? Eastern. 6 is free agency. Free agency starts at 6. So it's 3 p.m.

I guess I should know, but I think it's 3 p.m. Anyway, in the last three hours, there'll be a ton of deals. There always are. And a lot of them will be small and around the edges. And they'll be based on salary dumps, getting out of the tax, getting under the apron. And people are like, why did they make that trade? And it's like, well, most of them end up being financial deals. They just, they're just moving money. It's moving money around. And still, that's probably what a lot of it'll be.

But like, you know, we're all, there's always going to be a surprise. There almost always is something we're not thinking about. There's somebody talking quietly right now that none of us know about, and they've kept it quiet and that thing's going to come and that's the fun part of it i want to ask you about um kobe story because you know you is the top nba information information guy in the country and certainly the guy for espn and i read your story up on espn.com to what fueled kobe bryant's obsession so there's there's two parts that i want to touch on here. I know you were close with him, and we'll get to that. But to be in the car, to be on the phone with an executive talking deadline, and then

to have the very beginning of this horrific story start and you get notified, but then also be tasked with trying to figure out how to get this right. What was that Sunday like for you, OJ? Yeah, I mean, I know this word gets thrown around. It was pretty surreal. I was driving with my wife to, we were coming up to Bristol. My dad still lives in Bristol. It was his 90th birthday.

And we were going to come up and take him to dinner. I thought Sunday was the last day I had. It was a good day to drive up and drive home and take him to dinner for his birthday. And we were in the car. We were about a half hour. It's like a two-hour drive from our house. And we were about a half hour away. And I was on the phone with a GM about just talking trade deadline stuff.

And I got a text going from another GM saying, tell me this isn't true. And I sort of looked at it. I didn't know what reference to. And then my phone rang and I sent out the voicemail. I thought it was somebody calling about something. I had texted somebody an article to read and I thought they were calling me back about that article to comment on it. I'm like, well, I'll get back to him later on that. And then all of a sudden another text and another text and, and, and they told the GM, I got to call you back. I don't know what's going on here. And my wife had her phone and she saw the TMZ story and I, I pulled over, I pulled the car over and started to make calls and got some incoming calls with information. And, uh, but yeah, it was, uh, like anybody else, it was, uh,

you know, when, when you heard the helicopter part of it and just, I just remember having a lot of conversations with him about the helicopter and, you know, he used to fly the helicopter from, from, you know, down to Newport beach up to LA, I think he used to land, maybe he used to land on the roof of that Ritz cause he had a place in that Ritz. And so he'd be there for the day on a game day. And I remember him joking with me once. I don't know how much he was joking. And it's funny.

Jerry West talked about it the other night, like when he thought about the Clippers once. And part of it, most of it was Kobe was mad at some people. He was mad at everybody with the Lakers, and he was threatened to sign with the Clippers. But if you remember, there was a time when the Clippers were going to, they started to play more games down in that Honda Center, maybe in Anaheim, in the Toyota Center. The Clippers were playing like a few games down there,

and there was a time they talked about maybe the Clippers would move down there. I'm trying to remember what year it was. And I remember Kobe saying, well, like, that would make that a lot more appealing to me. Like that essentially, if you had a shorter commute, because he wanted to live down there, that the Clippers actually moving their team to down there. And I don't, it was a little bit facetious, but it was also, but what it spoke to was like, I don't want to make that drive. I'm going to get it. I ride my helicopter.

I'm not sitting in it. He hated sitting in the traffic. Everybody does. And so he's been flying the helicopters around. So when I heard that part of it, when I heard that part of it, Ryan, that there was a helicopter, it just felt more believable because he was always moving around in those. And, um, and so, and, and, and, and then when it's a Sunday morning and you're going, and I was just talking to Rob Palenka a few weeks ago about Kobe coaching, his coaching, Gigi, how much fun he was having coaching. I think Rob was at one of the games.

I don't know if one of Rob's children were playing or he was there watching too, but he was talking about seeing Kobe coach the girls and how much fun he was having doing it, and Kobe had expressed that too. And so it made sense on a Sunday morning, like, where would you be going? Like, you know, my son played a lot of travel basketball. Like, you're spending your Sunday mornings going to these. That's what you do. That's when the games are like a tournament on a Sunday morning like that's sort of the window of time so like sort of that in my head it right away you

felt like this makes that fits the puzzle right it's not like wait a minute why was he doing that it sort of and that's where it started to make you feel like and and listen tmz to their like they they don't get those stories wrong like they don't like they're very accurate and based on my i don't maybe they based on my um interpretation of how like and so but but i had to be sure and then i you know was able to get um a confirmation that i felt very strongly about and uh and and then reported it and um it was uh yeah it's like everybody else just he was somebody who you felt was indestructible and bigger than life and uh it uh, it was, um, Kobe was a mythic figure in a lot of ways. Um, flawed like a lot of, like he was not without flaws.

There's no question about that. Like any of us, but it's certainly everything about him was bigger than life. And you're seeing that in the outpouring since then, the reaction, the way it has resonated with people all over the world. And it's been several days unlike any I've spent covering anything. And I don't want to compare that to obviously what not only his family, but the families of all those victims, what they are waking up to now is just, it's, it's horrific. Yeah, of course. I didn't really realize,

even though I've got to know you more the last couple of years, I didn't realize how close you were with Kobe. And again, check out that piece up on ESPN.com. Like that was, I don't know if you were his guy or that was your guy, but can you share with us a little bit more about that time where it felt like you guys were pretty aligned as he was closing out his career? Yeah, we talked a lot. I mean, I wrote about him a lot.

And I got to know him much better at the Olympics in 2008 in Beijing. And there wasn't a ton of – there was a lot of media there, but it wasn't like it is now. ton of, there was a lot of media there, but it wasn't like it is now. And you would have like these pretty extensive windows to talk to the guys at the Olympics. And some of the guys wanted to talk more than others. And Kobe used that Olympics as a, as a time to really like the Olympics. If you're a player, it is the best time. Like there's not going to be anything, but really overly positive coverage, right? Like you, for the the most part especially then you're going to win every game by 30 you're not getting asked questions about why'd you miss that shot why'd you take that like like everybody's a superhero there everybody's you're winning big like the stories are just sit and talk every day

and it's a great opportunity to have your story told. And Kobe, so I got to know him much better there, and then it just carried into that next season and the following seasons. And, you know, he liked to talk, and he had, and I wrote about this, like at any given time, sometimes he was sending messages to a teammate, to management, to a coach, to an opponent. Sometimes he was doing all of that in one interview. And, you know, I just, you know, it was funny. You go to L.A. and I was at Yahoo then. And more than anything, and I was starting to break news, but there was no comparison to he gave me credibility.

Like I had been a general columnist in New Jersey before I went to Yahoo. And nobody knew who I was. Nobody in the league. I had some relationships when I started, but I was building them. But I don't think anything sped along my, I don't know, maybe just people becoming aware that I was covering the league than his willingness to talk with me and to say things at times he wasn't saying on the record anywhere else.

And so I owe a great debt of gratitude to him for my career. I owe a lot to him in that way he he and i think when other players or other agents or other executives i do think there was a level of well if kobe's talking to him and if kobe trusts him well i don't know maybe i should too or i should at least give him the opportunity to get to know him and so there were a lot of other people in the league who did that for me too, who I just think were respected in the league and who like, just by their dealing with me,

helped me to at least open the door to get to know more people and more people. But Kobe did it on a level that was unlike anything else. And so it was, he was the uh, um, he was the, the, he, he like,

there's just never been a newsmaker like him. Can I ask you about what it was like to be sitting? Like, were you sitting with him down in Newport beach and he reaches out to you and he's trying to convince you that Jim boss is going to amnesty the rest of his contract? Like, did he really believe that?

Cause that's in the story. I couldn't believe like that part jumped out. Yeah yeah and i was trying to remember the year i was i actually was going back through my old mayor i was as far back i could because i remember where i was staying i was staying at the manhattan beach marriott and i was trying to remember what year was this that we did this because i remember that he would he said come down and have dinner at uh javier's javier's newport beach, where Jim Rome would always live down there. And Kobe loved Jim Rome. And Jim and I have had a long relationship.

And I remember Jim, I remember Kobe said, we're going to go to dinner there. And I said, Jim, like, what's the, he goes, oh, no, that's Kobe's meet there. So I always remember his place in Newport Beach. And I said, all right, well well i'll drive down and meet you and he said no he he would send his security guy to drive you down and i was like i don't need someone to drive me down i'm just going to drive park no no no i'm going to send him i said i don't really need you to like but that's just how he like he'd send his guy and then um you you we went down and met, and he'd walk in. And back then, nobody knew what I looked like. I was at Yahoo.

I wasn't on television. My Twitter avatar was an empty gym. There wasn't even my photo. So I'd walk in with him, and there would always be like, and even in L.A., you know it, Ryan. You live there. People are immune to seeing stars around. But you'd walk into a restaurant with him, and was like it was it didn't like there's no there's no actor in Hollywood. There's no actress that would elicit the gasps that would come when Kobe walked in.

And I would always laugh and there'd always be the. And who is that with him? Was that his accountant? Is that his is that his, you know, like what does that guy do? His accountant or something? And so, and then he did just have like sort of a private room in the back. But at the time, he had this thought in his mind that he was going to get amnestied. And I just said, like, they're never going to do that to you. I said they would burn this city down. That's not going to happen. And he was on that for that night and maybe another time. And then I remember a couple of weeks later when I circled back with him, he was off of it. He's like, oh, no, I don't think

it's going to happen. I was like, okay. But I just remember one night he was, Jim Buss is going to amnesty me and I'll go to the Knicks. I'll go play for Phil with the Knicks. And I don't even know if Phil was in New York yet, but in his mind, I said, well, you know, if they am to see you, someone's going to claim you on waivers. He goes, no, I wouldn't let anybody do that. I would just become a free agent and go to the Knicks. I go, well, you probably – we're having this dumb conversation that was never going to come. But he was like – it was just – it was interesting. But he loved being a Laker.

He loved – I'll tell you what he loved. I remember he would say more than once how much he loved. He said, I never had to take a discount to win a championship. I never had to take less money to go win a championship. That he won his titles at full market value. And that was a point of pride to him. Well, that was really incredible. Great job as always.

And I want to remind everybody that will be in Chicago for the NBA All-Star Weekend. So just a couple of weeks from now, I will be with Woj for the Woj Pod live from Lincoln Hall in Chicago. So thanks a lot for sharing that with you and doing the trade deadline stuff. I know you're a busy guy and can't wait to hang out with you in a couple of weeks. All right. Ryan, thanks, man. Always good to be with you.

Looking forward to seeing you in Chicago, man. All right. That'll do it for us here in Miami hope you enjoyed that we back Super Bowl wrap up with Chris Long our final visit together make sure you subscribe to the show podcast on the ringer network thanks as always Outro Music