The Ryen Russillo Podcast - New York's Basketball Moment, ’90s Knicks Stories, and the End of Locker Room Access? With Frank Isola

Episode Date: March 3, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on Ja Morant and the Grizzlies after their win over the Wizards (2:00) before he talks to Frank Isola of ESPN and SiriusXM about the Knicks' success under coach Tom Thibodeau, covering then–Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy in the ’90s, today's NBA replay reviews, the Brooklyn Nets, sports beat writers and locker room access, and much more (7:45). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (57:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

but that after the game ryan jeff was the interim coach after the game phil jackson started campaigning for the next job about oh yeah maybe i'd be interested oh it's something i'd be interested in the knicks flew to dallas they had practice in dallas the next day and after we interviewed jeff he said let me ask you guys a question uh what did you think of phil jackson talking about the nick job and we were like it was kind of strange. And Jeff just unloaded on absolutely destroyed him. And that was all the lingering emotion from all those bulls, Nick series. When Phil Jackson used to kill the Knicks and Pat Riley about the way that

they're playing, they're playing like football players. We had Jeff less than a week and he was going after the coach in the NBA. We were like, this is going to be good. Fun show for you today. Frank Isola, we're going to talk today's NBA, but we're also going to talk about whether or not

reporters ever get in the locker room and then some awesome Van Gundy, Tom Thibodeau stuff from back in his early Knicks days and life advice coming up. Watched a bunch of the games last night. I'll leave you with this briefly because we have a lot of time with Frank Isola that we'll get to and some life advice at the end. But Ja Morant feels back. That Wizards game was really impressive

in that if you were just focused on Ja, he had 23 points with like three minutes left to go in that game. And the Wizards, what, they've won three out of four. It feels like everybody splits the back-to-backs on that. I'd love to know the record of the team in the what, they've won three out of four. It feels like everybody splits the back-to-backs on that. I'd love to know the record of the team in the second game when they won the first one. I know it wasn't that revealing, but I think it's gotten worse. But Moran ends up with 35 against the Wizards. I was watching specifically for what they were doing with him,

and here's the deal. When Ja had Beal on him or Netto, I think he ended up with Westbrook a couple times. I don't think it was ever by design with Westbrook to be on Ja. When you are Ja's size and that high pick and roll, and then you have the floater game, that's a wrap. I mean, it's one thing that he can finish at the rim. It's another thing to go with his passing. He had 10 assists again last night too. But he has that floater down and he has enough size that there's not much you can do with that. And then at one point they brought three guys to face him, like cut him off Giannis wall style.

And all three stayed with him after the action at the top. And then he just threw a floater pass over the top of them. And I think it was a dunk to Clark. And then they try to trap him way the hell out. So, you know, these are things that it's just great to kind of go back and look at it. And you were like, you know, because I think a lot of us do make the assumption like, oh, they're not doing anything. I mean, look, there's a ton of pick and roll. And I'll watch a game and be like, I'm not sure that I really picked up much from this other than high screen and roll and then driving kickouts the entire time. You know, Westbrook's big on this, this drive and kick thing that he was doing last night. He was passing it great.

His shooting was overall. I mean, he's just been better lately. But Westbrook was really big on penetrating, collapsing, and having everybody be ready to go on the kickouts. And look, they shot at 35% from three, and the Grizzlies shot it at 45%. But there was a control that Ja had in this game that was really like it was one of those things where you go into it and i'm gonna start doing more of that now i'm gonna just start watching individual players and getting a sense because everybody's just shooting threes and i don't know that a ton of this is all that revealing and some of the defensive stuff we talked about on

monday but you know look they they bring a double to meet him at that point the game was kind of over like the wizards made a bit of a run there in the fourth i think they got it around 10 after the grizzlies have been up but you know as i'm saying they they tried to switch they tried beal they tried netto they tried to keep two of them they tried to build a wall and have three people and then there's a baseline cut because nobody pays attention to those anymore dunk and then it's like all right let's trap this guy right as he brings it over half court and jaw was ready ready for it. And I think he was ready for it on first. Cause you'll see a trap where it's like, Oh, Hey, the trap work. And it's like, okay, well, he wasn't ready. He didn't know you're going to trap them 40 feet out from the hoop. So now that I know that you're going to

trap me and I can already see the guys coming, I just need a teammate to get a little bit closer to me as an outlet pass. And now all of a sudden we get a four on three and that's what happened. And then Brooks hit a jumper in the middle of the paint because it was four on three and nobody kind of knew what they were supposed to do when they were scrambling. So basically the lesson here is check out John Moran again, because it's easy for us to kind of turn the page on something new and exciting when they're missing some games. And I mean, he, he had only six in that game against Houston. Maybe it's the wizards getting him right. The shooting percentages

have been really bad in February here, but I just felt like his control of that Wizards game was kind of the reminder of what this guy is like when he's right. And shout out to the Spurs. Nice win against the Knicks last night. And speaking of guards, your Spurs are 18-13, five seed. They've played 24 games against the Western Conference. The only other team that's played 24 games, I believe, are the Lakers. The Jazz are at nine. Almost every other team is less than 20. And the Spurs, with not a great point differential, where the Nuggets' point differential is much better, and they have kind of the same percentage record. I mean, the Spurs, obviously, the five nuggets sitting there at seven. But DeJounte Murray, another guard who, you know, with his injury, missing some time. But he was great again last night. And, you know, looking through some of the stuff he's doing, like, it'll still be a little hit or miss, but it just feels like the bigger scoring has been happening the last two weeks. I don't know that he's ever going to shoot it great, but he's been putting together better shooting months now, February and into March. And this is back-to-back games where he's just kind of reminding you of that guy that we couldn't believe dropped to 29. So there you go. A little

quick Western Conference guard recap before we talk to NBA beat legend, Frank Isola. NBA beat legend, Frank Isola. Frank Isola is terrific on the NBA. I've known him for a bunch of years with SiriusXM, Yes Network on the Nets coverage, and of course ESPN as well. I wanted to have you on, so I'm not going to go recency here after the Spurs loss where the Knicks didn't look very good, but we know this about the Knicks. They play good defense.

They don't play great offense. There's a defensive number in there that maybe is a little scary about how good the record is, is that their opponent's three-point percentage is off the charts low in comparison to other teams. But Tibbs, you know, I know he's unbelievable to talk basketball. I don't know that I would say I'm confident saying this person knows more about basketball than Tibbs, but I didn't know if it was a fit for a roster that still felt like it was maybe one or two guys and then a bunch of moving pieces. So how has this all worked out in your backyard? You know, and you know, the thing about Tom, maybe I should preface it by saying when he was an assistant coach under Jeff and I just thought that he was a pretty interesting guy and Jeff Van Gundy used to, um, rave about him.

So I became close to Tom. So I've always, I followed him. And I think, I thought he did a great job in Chicago. I know some of the knocks on him. I know what happened in Minnesota, but I thought Tom coming to New York, he maximizes the talent that he has. The Knicks roster is not great. And look at what Julius Randle has done. And Julius Randle should get most of the credit for what's happened, but he's an all-star this year. Tom had Derek Rose as a first-time all-star. He was an MVP. You had Joe Kim Noah, Carl Anthony Towns. And I think Tom taking this team, which, again, is not a great roster.

Ryan, think about this. The last day of February, they won their 18th game. Last year on the final day of February, they won their 18th game. The only difference was two differences. Last year was 29 days in February. So they had one more day to play with. And they were at game 65. He was at game 35 when he won his 18th game. He just has a way of, you know, they talk about player development. He does that. He's improving all the assets on the team and they're competitive. They play hard every night. Half the battle, maybe more than half the battle, is getting your team to compete

and that's what Tom does. I especially think that's the case this year. I brought up the Oklahoma City example where I go, I can't believe that they're in as many games as they are. And I really think,

I think it's happened with Charlotte. This is year two with Borrego, this team being competitive and having all these close games. And look, they were losing a lot of the close games last year, but it wasn't a great roster.

But I think with the circumstances, and if you talk to enough people, especially coaches, guys on staffs that are doing it and traveling, and they go, if you come with a plan and you come with some effort, you're going to get more wins this year because so many teams are already over this coming out of the bubble. Like the good teams that were in the bubble, they're going to give you one or two every now and then,

especially if you're facing them twice in 48 hours. And if you're ready to go, I think that's another reason why we're seeing the Knicks even flirting with being in the playoffs here. Yeah, and I think those teams that went deep into the bubble, to your point, you look at the Lakers, the Nuggets, the Boston Celtics, the Miami Heat, they've all have had kind of their struggles this year.

The Knicks had been off since last March 11th or 12th, whatever it was. Tom got the job a few months after that. And you know, this is the thing with Tom. He doesn't have a wife, doesn't have a girlfriend. His life and his, you know, his significant other is basketball. So he's going to completely throw himself into it. So he's going to come prepared. And Brian Scalabrini, your buddy, talks about this all the time. You know, players, they want coaches that are going

to help them get better because if you get better, you're going to get paid. And I think what he has with the Knicks is a group of players who, for the most part, haven't accomplished that much. So they haven't really built up to a place where they can say, no, no, coach, I'm not doing it like that. Tom is able to push these guys. He's able to coach them and they're getting the results. That's why it's been thus far a pretty good marriage. And it's not a knock on their roster, but their talent is not off the charts. They don't have that signature star player. Granted, Julius Randle, again, has been an all-star, but the roster, it's good. It's certainly not great. Yeah, I think you're even being nice by saying it's good because, look, there's all sorts of expectations for R.J. Barrett because you go, where is he at the pick? High school rankings with Barrett? Because there's an expectation that if you pick that high, can this guy help turn a franchise around? He's not that. I don't think he's ever going to be that. But can he be good enough that you're thrilled he's in a Knicks uniform for a long time?

And I think you're right. You talk to coaches when he first got drafted there, a lot of them were saying doesn't really have that ability to separate himself from a defender. He's not a big time athlete. So what he needs to become is just a better basketball player. And I think the one thing about this Nick team and RJ Barrett fits into this category, you know, Tom looks at it like, well, you were, you know, the number three pick of the draft.

So you're definitely going to play a lot. And no matter what happens, I'm going to ride with you. It's kind of been, you need to earn your keep. There've been a couple of games this season where Austin Rivers played lights out against Utah. They beat him at the guard.

He was making three point shot after three point shot, but it's not guaranteed minutes. And I think kind of having that environment there in New York, where guys are competing for time and it trickles down to a guy like RJ Barrett. You know, certainly he could look at Zion Williamson, man, he plays all the time. He's

an all-star. Look at John Moran. He's tremendous. He plays all the time when he's healthy. I'm RJ Barrett. I'm the third pick. I should play all the time. It doesn't work like that. You need to produce. And you know, coaches and general managers, everyone now, the window for a lot of these guys is really short. They're going in there. They're going to try to win because maybe the ownership says, oh, we need to develop guys. Yeah, sure. Then all of a sudden you start losing games.

Then they're looking to get the next guy in there. If I'm a coach, I'm going to do what Tom does. I'm trying to win right away because that's the best way for young players to get better is to be in that kind of environment and know that they have to earn their keep. And I think that's happening with RJ Barrett. Does Tom get upset with you just airing out his dating life like that a little bit earlier here? Well, he does date.

He's just not a Barrett. He definitely, yeah, I was going to say he doesn't have a social life. I guess he's got a bit of a social life. You know what? It's funny because he does bring that up all the time because the big thing in Minnesota was that he was walking around and he was gruff. He didn't say hello to people. Yeah, but you guys got into the playoffs for the first time in 13 to 14 years. So maybe you were just upset that on April 15th, instead of going on vacation, you actually had to work for two more weeks because the team got into the playoffs. So Tom, he said to me at one point, he said, you know, the way I am, I say hello to people, but you know, you're showing up for work. You're in a serious environment. He's pushing people. How has it worked out for Minnesota since he left? Now they have nothing to worry about,

Ryan. They could actually schedule their vacation the minute the schedule comes out, because they know on the final day of the season, they can then fly somewhere and have vacation now that he's not there anymore. Perfect. Now I'm sorry. I can't stop thinking about it. But can you imagine going on a blind date and and meeting Tibbs and you would be like, wait, what's going on? Because he's got this laugh that you'd be like, whoa, what's going on? And I, you've known him a long time. I don't pretend to know him.

I, you know, I remember when he was with Boston and he got the Bulls gig. I think some of us were like, is that going to translate as a head coach? Because he was kind of like a defensive coordinator before it was normal with Doc, where he was standing up yelling out coverages and that helpline. And I'd go, I don't know that everybody's going to love this. And luckily that Celtics group was a veteran group that had individual success. So they were kind of over it collectively, which was really important for them to have that kind of success. Because if all those dudes had been younger, they might not have been willing to sacrifice as much and Tibbs is just screaming out like they have this helpline stuff and and these rules that were a little different and they were

great at it and I was like and then it worked I mean look I love those Chicago teams earlier on did he run him into the ground I don't know if Luol Deng is broke I don't know if Joakim broke down because of that I don't you know the Rose stuff seems a little bit more on Rose's athleticism and being in bad body positions. But maybe it is all on him. I'm not saying that I know one way or the other, but people have always raved about him. So when he got the gig, I'm like, all right, but I don't know. Like, I feel like they should have hired him in three years. What is it about him going back to the Van Gundy years like why like you know as long as you've

known him why people are like man like people just kind of smile a little bit in basketball when they talk about him as far as his understanding of coaching you know it um I did a thing I'll name drop here uh in February of 2019 I got asked to do a Kobe Bryant's book was coming out, The Wizard. It was a book, you know, kind of based on Harry Potter, but like a basketball theme to it. And the Sirius XM said the NBA was looking for somebody to host it. And they asked me if I would do it. So right away, I said, well, clearly they asked about 20 people. They all said no. They went back to that list. They all said no. And then they finally said, all right, we'll let Frank do it. So I was there with Kobe and Tom Thibodeau. And Kobe telling the stories about being in high school and showing up at St. Joe's College to work out during the off season,

after his season was over with the Philadelphia 76ers, play pickup. But Tom would stay with him after practice and work with him. So all right. So Kobe Bryant is this young hotshot kid in high school. But I cover New York City basketball. If I had a dime or a nickel for every time somebody told me that this kid's going to be the next great thing, I wouldn't have to do this podcast with you. So he doesn't know how good Kobe Bryant's going to be, but Tom loves the game of basketball and Kobe knew that he was trying to help him get better. When Tom got to New York, Larry Johnson used to show up at the garden at about four o'clock, 3.30, four o'clock for a 7.30 game because it took Larry Johnson so much time to get his back loose and be ready to play. He would show up at 3.30. Tom Thibodeau

would be waiting there for him. And he'd go through all the drills on him. Everything was about making him better. So I think the players knew that Tom was invested in him. And when you talk about that Celtic team, the leader of that team was Kevin Garnett. So Garnett's going to be the one, he's going to be the one pulling the team in the right direction, but he knew, he believed in what Tom was trying to do. And I just love the fact that you wrote up Tom standing up. If Tom doesn't have that relationship with Doc Rivers, a coach might feel a little intimidated or threatened thinking, man, this guy, is he grandstanding and trying to be the center of attention? And Tom was not doing that.

But I do find it funny because now when you watch NBA games, how often do you see that defensive assistant coach? It's almost like subconsciously, maybe consciously, they're thinking, no, no, I need to be standing up. So this way everyone knows I'm the defensive mastermind of the team. And they're screaming and yelling at everyone. When Tom was doing it, believe me, it was authentic. He and Doc Rivers had that kind of relationship. No, it's really important. And I remember the first time I saw it being at a game, I'm going, wait, like this is what's going on. And I'm like, I'm sure there's other guys that have stood up that, that not the, uh, the head coach coach but you have to remember it was every defensive set and if they were on their side of the bench it was it was he would have looked like

the head coach and you have to be a doc rivers or a type like that to be secure enough in your own deal where you're like okay i'm fine with this happening what was it like covering jeff in that group because what year did you get started i I started, believe it or not, it was in, I went to Cleveland. I was young. My office said, they took somebody up the beat. They said, you need to get to Cleveland. It was the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. So I flew to Cleveland the morning of the game.

I made it to shoot around. And then before the game, like an idiot, I'm introducing myself to everybody as if like every Nick is going to be, oh yeah, there's the new guy from the New York Daily News. I still remember. How old are you? Early twenties. but as if like every Knick is going to be, oh, yeah, there's the new guy from the New York Daily News. I still remember walking over to Monty. Early 20s. I still remember walking over to Monty Williams, and when I shook his hand, I squeezed his hand,

and he had been out of the lineup with that. I think he had like some type of serious finger injury. So he like winced, and I'm like, ah, this is not good. But that first year on the beat, Don Nelson was the coach. And you could tell it wasn't going to work. And the Knicks were in Philadelphia in March. I think it was the weekend of when they selection Sunday. And they fired Don Nelson. They made Jeff the coach. They lose to a crappy Philadelphia team on that Friday night at the old Spectrum. Saturday, they practice. And Derek Harper said, this is the best practice

we've had all year. He said, I know we're going to be ready for this game. The following day, they're playing the Bulls. So it's the 72-win Bulls on a Sunday. NBC used to love, you remember, they used to love to put the Bulls and the Knicks on that 5 o'clock, 5.30 game. Our college days revolved around that Bulls game every week. Exactly. So Jeff, that morning, actually had a shoot around at Madison Square Garden. He was really locked in.

And I remember seeing Derek. I went to the shoot around, and I'm talking to Derek Harper. He's completely exhausted. And he said to me, I still remember, he said, Frank, I don't know if you gamble, but you should bet on us tonight because we will win this game. I'm telling you right now. So I'm thinking it's just hyperbole. Derek Harper ends up having a great game. And in the fourth quarter, the Knicks are coming out of a timeout. The Garden is going completely nuts. And back then, you know, when the media actually mattered to the NBA, we sat courtside. And Derek Harper,

I'm sitting right near the Bulls bench. And Derek Harper, I'm sitting right near the Bulls bench. And Derek Harper looks up and he sees me and he smiles and he says, hey, Frank, what's up? I told you. And I was like, damn, maybe I should have bet money on the Knicks. But after the game, Ryan, Jeff was the interim coach. After the game, Phil Jackson started campaigning for the Knicks job. Maybe I'd be interested. Oh, it's something I'd be interested in. The Knicks flew to Dallas. They had practice in Dallas the next day. And after we interviewed Jeff, he said, let me ask you guys a question. What did you think of Phil Jackson talking about the Knicks job? And we were like, yeah, it was kind of strange. And Jeff just unloaded on it,

absolutely destroyed him. And that was all the lingering emotion from all those Bulls Knicks series when Phil Jackson used tos, Knicks series, when Phil Jackson used to kill the Knicks and Pat Riley about the way that they're playing. They're playing like football players. We had Jeff less than a week and he was going after the coach in the NBA. We were like, this is going to be good. I love Jeff. I'm almost like too pro Jeff. You know what I mean?, I've got the chance to, I wouldn't say I know him real well, but I've, I've gotten a chance to talk to him on and off the air and to think of him at 34, you know, cause we were talking about something and he goes, do you think I was ready

to coach the Knicks at 34? He goes, and for him at 34 to kind of have that New York thing down and to play it up and to say, fuck Phil Jackson, that that's unbelievable. Like we can think of the Jeff today and be like, oh, well that makes a lot of sense. But it's Jeff who you have to be insecure at that moment. Like you can, you can try to say the right things. You can know basketball better than everybody, but there's going to be a massive insecurity. You just took over for Don Nelson. You're coaching the Knicks, the mid nineties, um, that media and all that kind of stuff. And somehow, like, it fit. I can't believe he's never come back.

Are you surprised? And he's wanted to. And I think that's why he made that commitment to USA basketball when he coached the qualifying team, which was mostly made up of G League players. I think that was his way of trying to prove to people. I wonder, you know, his personality on TV. I think after a while, John Madden, I think people forgot that he was a coach and they almost looked at him as a football analyst, but a bit of a caricature.

And I actually felt that the coach of the Raiders, John Gruden, I thought for a while that he, people perceived him more as a character on TV and not as a football coach. He got back into it. I think Jeff would want the job, but to your point about going after guys, you know, there was one year he got to Chicago for a game and he was being interviewed. He might've been on radio, but he, or maybe a newspaper in Chicago, but he knew exactly what he was doing. And he started calling,

that's when he called Michael Jordan a con man. And he said, the greatness of Michael Jordan is he knows how to work everybody in the NBA. He befriends them because he really wants to kill them. He'll want them to be their friend. He befriends them because he really wants to kill them. He'll want them to be their friend. He'll invite them into his movies. And you think that Michael Jordan is your friend, but all he's trying to do is soften you up so he can beat you. And everybody in Chicago took it like, oh my God, how dare you come after the great Michael Jordan? That's not

really what he was doing. He was basically saying, I love Patrick. Patrick's my guy. Patrick has to realize that Michael Jordan, I know you guys have the same agent. You're in space, Jim. You need to go after him the way that he's going after you. And he meant it for Charles Oakley, who was friendly with Michael Jordan. They basically came in to Chicago one year apart. They were great friends. They were always great friends. It was really Jeff calling out his team that night against the Bulls. I think Michael got, he might have 48 or 50, but the Bulls went on a last second shot and everyone was saying, Jeff Van Gundy fired Michael Jordan up. And it was, no, he didn't. They won on a last second shot because Michael Jordan is great. And Jeff did what he always did with Michael Jordan.

Riley was the same way. They would double team in the fourth quarter. Their thing was when it gets to the fourth, get the ball out of his hands, make these other guys beat you. They won by two points. Everybody made it seem like Jordan beat the Knicks 150 to nothing. That wasn't the way it went down. So Bill and I did a pod recently where I think the frustrating thing is you get older than a younger generation nba fans and certainly with players you know they're all younger than us now they're like oh you're just haters or you know whatever old man yelling at cloud it's like actually now the reason we're doing these rants is because we give a shit because we love this

stuff so much but when i watch reviews you know and i know this year has been challenging uh more so than other years for for obvious reasons but bill and i kind of did you know like a 10-15 minute thing on like unfortunately i think the refs it's not even the player's fault but the refs have allowed themselves to be tricked where we've evolved into a handful of plays that i just don't want to watch and i don't understand why it keeps getting called and then it leads to complaining on every single trip up and down the floor which was not the case back in the day. Usually the best player was the guy that complained. You guys kept things moving.

And now we need a hearing after every fucking whistle. And I mean, look, the Lakers game last night, again, Booker gets thrown out. We're confused because guys aren't there. So we don't know what's going on, but you could just tell like there's the Clippers had it for a while. The Lakers have it right now where every single possession is something. And so we say these things because we care. And the reason I bring that up is that you've been doing this a long time. When Jeff goes on those rants, I don't know that the NBA loves those.

No, I don't think they do. I think we both know they don't. But I'd like for the NBA to understand that we're doing this because we're some of the bigger fans that have voices that care about this. And I think Jeff's probably cut back on that a little bit, but as somebody who, you know, look, NBA radio with Sirius XM, the ESPN connection to all of it, like, where are you at with a game that we all still love, but noticing a trending of things where you go, hey, the product can be kind of tough to consume the last 20, 25 minutes of each of these games.

Yeah, you know, earlier this season, because you know how it works, Ryan, the NBA is the only sport where after the first game, we have to talk about who's going to be the MVP. Like, it's the first week of the year. He's having a great year. He's in the MVP conversation. That expression drives me nuts. So Brian Scalabrine and myself, when we do our radio show,

we start in on the second day. We start mocking the whole thing, and we start doing like an update on the MVP. And you know, Luka Doncic right away is an MVP candidate. And early on, they were like six games under.500. They had a long losing streak. The guy was complaining after every time. He doesn't get a call. Luka's a huge complainer, man.

So I had the audacity to say, can we stop saying that he belongs in the MVP conversation? He's not elevating his team. His team is not winning. He's going to be a great player. And I got so much blowback from that. You know, Slovenia and all of Dallas wanted to kill me because I had the audacity to say that.

It's like, that's how you're judging him. And I think a lot of the stuff you're talking about with Jeff, I think Charles Barkley is the same way. I think the fan at home, I think a lot of them, there's still going to be a segment of the audience that's like you and myself. We love the game, but we're not afraid to criticize when we feel it's fair. And as long as you're not taking cheap shots at people, there's nothing wrong with it. My big thing has been for the last couple of years, during the regular season, I want there to be a two-minute overtime.

couple of years during the regular season, I want there to be a two minute overtime. I want the game to end in regulation, which means that you either ended on a shot that tied the game or a shot that could have won the game. Have the teams go for like a 30 second timeout, throw the ball up. Let's get it on. There's no reason to have a five minute overtime. It takes too damn long. Like when Oklahoma city goes to LA and plays the Lakers and they somehow manage to tie the game in regulation, do you really think they're going to win five more minutes? To me, I would gimmick that up during the regular season. Playoffs, absolutely five minutes. But these overtimes that take 15 minutes, you're killing your viewers.

It takes way too long. Who came up with five minutes? Was that you and Bill Simmons? I'm bad at math. Five doesn't go into 48. How'd you come up with five-minute overtime, for crying out loud? You know what's funny, though, is if they cut it to two, they would say, oh, well, it's too short because

you played 48 and you tied it and you didn't really get it because it's only two and a half possessions and all, you know. All right. But Ryan, I'm buying, but I'm now going along with everybody on how the players should play less and they need more rest. So my, doesn't my two minutes fit with what everybody wants is to help the players rest a little bit as opposed to play. I just don't want reviews. I'm not even saying

your five minute to two minute thing is wrong. I'm just saying reviews. Like I want to be excited at home. I want to, I want to sit. The ball goes out of bounds and everybody in the court goes like this, even though when it's obvious whose ball it is, I love when it's, it's like twirling their finger and we got to go check it. 11.15 on the clock remaining in the first quarter. And then somebody drives baseline and it goes off their foot. And then he just does the circle. Like, hey, let's, hey, let's, hey, coach, let's challenge that one. And you're just like, we got 47 minutes to go here.

You could always tell the status of players. Totally. Because earlier this season, you'll always see that guy who's a good player, but he's not LeBron James, not Kevin Durant, looking at his coach in the second quarter. You got to challenge that. And the coach is in a bad spot. He's like, no, I'm not going to do that. Steve Nash this year, was he the Kyrie or Kevin Durant? It was Kevin Durant. He challenged the call early in the second quarter. And I was like, that's the status symbol. It's not being allowed to miss a game. It's not making the all-star team.

It's whether or not your coach will challenge a foul, like your second foul in the second quarter of an NBA game. No, that's totally... I know Vogel's had a couple where he just knew, like, all right, I have to challenge this because LeBron's just wearing me out about this. He didn't do it for KCP? He didn't do it for Alex Caruso?

He's doing it for LeBron? All right. I don't know. He might do it for KCP. It seems like there's a good relationship there. He's played well. Okay, so let's... I can't believe. He might do it for KCP. It seems like there's a good relationship there. He's played well. Okay, so let's... I can't believe it took this long, but

just give me... What's the best way to describe what you've seen with the Nets, with Nash, with all the pieces, even though, look, they're still rolling. I don't even care about that Dallas game. It's scary for other teams, and then kind of like big picture as you're real close to it. Well, I think Steve definitely has the right temperament for the job.

There's been a couple of things that happened. They lost two games to Washington this year. Pretty interesting. The one at home, they had taken a lead. They were going off. They were playing a small lineup and they scored with about 26 seconds to go. Washington called timeout. Washington is down one point.

And Steve did not put Jared Allen back in the game. And the Nets were getting killed inside. Sure enough, Bradley Beal shoots. Thomas Bryant gets the offensive rebound, kicks it out to Beal. Beal drives down the lane, hands it to Thomas Bryant. Thomas Bryant dunks the ball. So to me, that was all right. So this is a young coach. Let's ask him after the game about not going offense for defense. What's his philosophy? Of course, nobody asked him that because they only asked Nets big picture questions like, do you think you can win the championship? And then he lost another game to Washington this year where he didn't call a timeout.

They had two to go with about five seconds left. Joe Harris threw an inbounds pass, stolen. Russell Westbrook ties the game up on a three. And Washington ends up winning in overtime. Nobody asked him about using the timeouts there. So he's had a couple of things this year early on, which were fascinating to watch. He's never done this before. You know, so you and I, listen, we could sit at home and say, I would do this. I would do that when you're on the bench, it's a lot different. So I think he's learning on the fly and, and he's been called out by some people in the media, by the minutes

police, how many minutes guys have played. But I got to tell you this. When those three guys play together, especially Kevin Durant, and I know I'm not breaking new ground here, but when you see him every day when he does play, you realize Kevin Durant, it's like a different level player. And James Harden is the same way. The dude is so good. And what I always liked about Harden, he lives the life of a young single guy, which is his, he can do whatever he wants in his free time. He parties hard, but when it comes time to play, he plays and he loves playing basketball and he's incredible at it. So watching those two guys, now Kyrie's been up and down. He's been out of the lineup. He missed the two weeks where he just

went away. But when those three guys have a clicking, that is some potent offensive team. Wait, are you saying Durant lives his life or Harden lives his life? Harden, I'm sorry, I meant Harden. Yeah, okay. Harden lives his life, yeah. Yeah, because I was going to say. Have you seen his body lately? No, because if you were saying that about KD, I was like, wait, are you saying that in comparison to the Harden part of it?

I mean, look, Harden puts it out there for everybody. We see his body and it doesn't matter. And, you know, I got really annoyed. It's well documented's well-documented over all the Houston stuff, um, for, for a long time. Cause I, you know, one of my, one of the things that pissed me off the most, and I liked Daryl Morey is that after they lose the warriors, they, they release a study that they did on their own in-house and they release it to two ESPN reporters to make sure it's out. And you're like, you know, nobody wants to hear this shit from you

guys. You missed a million threes in a row. Yeah. Like you just did. And so nobody wants to hear this. And so then it, you know, all kind of came together. And I think what I've loved about this part of Harden, even in the game where they lost against Dallas, Dallas starts trapping him. Harden's like, all right, he got it out immediately and then cut, which you don't always see from him all the time. There's a basketball understanding that Harden has that is so far beyond the shooting, the fouls and all the stuff that does piss me off about it. But his passing to see his passing on display again at this level is an awesome reminder of the way he sees the game that I think is more special than he gets credit for. Yeah. You know, he's brilliant when it comes to that. And I think he sees plays develop like a split second or a second before

everyone else does. And when he first got to Brooklyn, I was critical of him from this standpoint. My thing was go back to being James Harden. You're trying too much to fit in. And maybe that had something to do with, he felt like he was shooting, he's taking a beating. And I just felt he wasn't trying to score enough now over the past three weeks or so he's gotten back to being James Harden there was a coach that told me that they were interested in going after Harden this is when he was playing for the Rockets and they said that they watched a couple of games of Harden's and he was dribbling the ball I think they said like 500 or 600 times over the course of the game remember the game that Klay Thompson had when he had like nine dribbles? 17 dribbles or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. So their point was they felt that Harden, because they were making him do too much, come late in the game when he's taking these step-back contested threes, he didn't have his legs because he was so worn out from having to do everything. And I think now that you see him on Brooklyn late in games,

even though his fitness still needs to improve, I do think because Kyrie takes on some of the playmaking responsibilities, obviously when Durant is there, he does. He's got a little bit more in the tank in the fourth quarter. So all those stats they want to bring out, that's fine. But I think they were almost running them into the ground too much over the first three quarters of a game. I love anybody that's around Durant

just because there are little parts of it where we go. Because somebody the other night, actually I'll tell everybody, Van Pelt FaceTimed me last night because they were going on SportsCenter. And he goes, hey, Joker, top 10? I go, look, top 10 is deeper than I think people realize. We are really lucky to have this league be so deep at the top.

And, you know, Joker's in the MVP conversation. He's not going to win it, but he's taking it to another level. You know, he's more aggressive offensively. But then when you go like, okay, hey, so let's go through the top five again. Like, let me run it through it again. And you're like, okay, look, it has to be LeBron. Kawhi's in there. And then you're like, oh, wait, what am I doing?

Make sure I have Durant as high up there. Because even with the Achilles concerns, I just love being reminded of how special he is. And that's what I've seen in the times where he's been in it. And the weird thing is I'm hoping it's not going to be a Clippers East thing where, hey, this guy's out and this guy's going to miss some time. And maybe none of it matters. Maybe the less than this will be this regular season matters less than any of them ever mattered. Because if those three guys are together,

they could play like the 20th best ranked defense. And I'm starting to think between the way they've used Brown, I think DeAndre's look better. I think Claxton is kind of fits oddly with this group as opposed to a traditional player where I didn't love him on offense because of his size. He played smaller than he was. And now with this group, it's like, dude, just go cut.

And you're going to be wide open on these cuts all the time. So all those guys are propped up by it. So do you have them coming out of the East? You know, I mean, a lot will depend on Kyrie, who's had injury issues in the playoffs, and it'll depend on the health of Durant. If so, I think they'll come out. I still think that they know that they're going to get some kind of player around the deadline on the

25th, either through a trade or maybe in some type of buyout situation, they sign the guy as a free agent. You know, the one thing about Durant, which I noticed, and I think he's been great in terms of the way that he's handled himself and coming back from the injury. I think he understands that if this doesn't work, if he doesn't win, a lot of the blame will fall on him. And I think he wants it to work so badly. And he does, you know, he very rarely takes a bad shot. He's out there. He wants to defend.

He shares the ball. And Ryan, after every game that he's played in and he meets with the media, he's got the stat sheet in front of him. And if the reporters ask him a basketball question, he does not give a cliche. He remembers plays that happened or he'll look at the stat sheet and he gives a pretty educated answer on why the Nets won a game or why they lost the game. It's almost like he goes to Golden State, which I'm surprised that he left there because you took all this heat for going there. So you won.

You might as well stay and win as many as you can. But it's almost like he's getting kind of the joy back a little bit. He seems more at ease. I think the way that he's handled himself, because he always looked kind of angry when he was in Golden State. And the criticism was getting to him. He's been nothing short of terrific in these post-game press conferences. He's really been good. He's been impressive in fact.

Okay, so I look at all of that, and I do think there has to be another piece at some point. I don't know if other teams are going to try to get in their way with trades to maybe prevent buyouts or that kind of stuff. That was kind of always the Drummond thing, I wondered. But, I mean, Drummond's number is so big that, you know, are other teams going to do a proactive trade to take him on to prevent it from a buyout?

I mean, you know, look, I'm just thinking out loud and all these different things. The weird thing is that the East can do some of these small lineups, except for Giannis and Philly, obviously, with Embiid. But if LeBron and AD are both right, I still, I don't know if it's because of what we saw them do when they cranked it up. And the weird thing, too, about that Lakers run is Rondo was a stud for them. And now if you're a Hawks fan, you're like, what happened to that guy?

You're like, no, no, welcome to the Rondo experience. He was hitting outside shots. He would turn into a spot-up three-point shooter during the playoffs for the Lakers. a spot-up three-point shooter during the playoffs for the Lakers. But if those two guys are right, I think that two-man game with Davis at the five is still a lot to ask for at least this version of the Nets roster to defend. Yeah, and I think when you say, you were saying, Scott Van Pelt asked you, is he a top-ten player? And I kind of feel like it's still three guys in the league. It's Durant, LeBron, and Kawhi.

Those have been the guys that have won the championships, except for that, you know, the one year that Golden State won before, before, or two years before Kevin Durant got there. Let me ask you this. Do you think that there are teams out there looking now what James Harden has done? And who knows how close they were? Like, you think a team like the Miami Heat, you think Pat Riley is saying, man, you know what? Maybe we should have pushed a little bit harder to get this guy. Because everyone, we always tend to look at how it's ending with a team and thinking, man, you know what? Who needs this headache? And the guy, he's not going to be good. Don't you think there have

to be teams out there that are kicking themselves a little bit saying, man, maybe we should have really taken a legitimate run at this guy? Yeah, I do. But I think the basketball guy, like I think the guys like O'Reilly, some of the ex-players that run teams, they're always betting on talent, you know, where they're going, all right, yeah, it was a disaster. And we know all the war stories and it was gross to watch with him in Houston. Where do we sign up? You know, let us know because I want to stay on this hardened the what if market thing because I never you covered this you're on the beat you know the respect I have for you guys that are in it all the time so I know

there's times like hey you know this is what I heard and then it's like you know what fucks that guy think he's doing you know that kind of like I get it you know what I mean it kind of happens but I do know a bunch of different versions of the hardened story and, you know, it wouldn't be enough to write, but I believe that Philadelphia believed they had the deal in place. And from what I had heard is that the optics part of it, that Daryl had just taken the job.

It was like, look, we can't, I can't leave Houston, go to Philly and then get hardened two days later. Yeah. I think Philly believes they had a gig. Now, there's other people that think that there was never any version of this where Fertitta was going to let Daryl Morey end up with Harden. But I'd say this, and maybe you're right. You know what I mean? The way I would talk about this is,

hey, here's kind of what I've heard. I've heard that the deal was in place, they put it off, that it was so in place that Simmons put it off. That was so in place that Simmons was already talking about potential housing in Houston that Harden was told he couldn't wear 13 in Philadelphia. Wow. All right. And then for whatever reason, the ask went up because it was like, Hey, you know, you know, I kind of like is that maxi guy. And I don't know if that's true. I don't know if the price went up and then Philadelphia felt like, wait a minute, I thought we had a deal here,

but we were just putting it off and then Stone down in Houston started calling people again, but I'll conclude here is that there's, again, so many people that are like, it was never happening. Fertitta was never going to lose to Mori,

but what I counter with that is Fertitta didn't exactly want to lose to Harden either because he was pissed off at him and there was a piece up on ESPN.com that said we're going to make this real uncomfortable as if they weren't going to give in because Harden going to Brooklyn was a win for Harden. Harden going to Philly was a win for Maury. So I don't really know that he had a winning solution and ultimately ended up with all the picks, which is why anybody ever wants these trades now anyways, a million picks so they can

have them. So I don't know what else you know know or who else feels like they were left out on that thing but there's an interesting version of events which i'm not reporting as fact that people believe that there was something in place and then somehow it changed i i i agree with you i think the whole the philly the philly thing complicated the thing i admire a lot about daryl morey is he's always thinking championship and that's what jeff van gundy always used to say about pat Riley. He would say that every day that he wakes up, he's thinking about what can I do to win a championship? And I think Daryl Morey is always kind of big game hunting. And I felt if I were the Houston Rockets,

and I understand all that stuff, but, you know, it is, if you're going to get Ben Simmons back, I like Ben Simmons. I understand the whole three-point shooting thing, but the guy's a 6'9", 6'10", point guard. And he's been a great defender this year. To me, if I have a deal starting with him, I'm basically trading seven years because I think Ben Simmons is seven years younger than Harden. I understand it's complicated, and I think, too, once you get ownership involved and they're looking at it like that, it's more about we need to win the deal immediately as opposed to what would be the best

long-term thing. And that's why you're getting picks. And I get it. A lot of these GMs, Ryan, they love the draft picks because they could always sell. We're young. We're young. If I have to hear about one more time how a team is young and athletic, how long has the Sacramento Kings been young for? I think, what are they going to go on now? 16 years not making the playoffs. Minnesota's made it one year. Phoenix has been young and athletic for 10 years, and they finally went out and got Chris Paul and said, we need someone to come in here who kind of knows what they're doing and look at the way that he's elevated the group.

So at some point, the whole idea, I'm so sick of you. If you want to be young and athletic, go draft a track team at one of the colleges. Go to USC and get a bunch of track guys. You can be young and athletic as long as you want. I admire the guys that kind of go for it. Think about how many times Pat Riley did it with the huge trade a million years ago for Alonzo Mourning, the one for Shaquille O'Neal, and then, of course, now he got lucky with LeBron. That was more LeBron.

But Jimmy Butler, Pat Riley's always thinking about, how can I get a star? Because as we know and everybody else knows, you need stars to win in the NBA. No, but it's a good way of kind of coming back to the Harden point is that, all right, there's going to be a bunch of stuff you don't like. Now, the difference, I think, to be fair to some of the other teams, Miami's different because if you threw Harden into that mix, then I think he's happy. I mean, first of all, he's happy he's in South Beach.

The Jimmy Butler part of it, he's got other players. Bam is terrific. Some of the role guys feel like they've dipped a little bit, but Miami was a weird team last year. They were way below.500, and they ended up in the NBA Finals, so I was supposed to just pick them out of the East again? I don't think they're this bad, and they missed Butler for that really long stretch,

and they're better. And I'm not going to interrupt you. How many road games, how are they going to do on the road as the lower-seeded team in every series? When they had to go up to Boston, all those young players, Kendrick Nunn, Duncan Robinson, Tyler Hira, they're going to be feeling free and easy when they go up to crazy Boston on a Friday night and the crowd is liquored up and people are screaming like lunatics.

That's easy to do? First time in the playoffs for those guys? I'm not so sure about that. No, I've even said on the pod uh on monday where i think there's i don't want to overstate it too much it was just more of a theory where i'm wondering if it's easier for some of the newer guys because they don't know any better so they're energized they're not like this sucks um and the defense is bad like i don't think the defense has ever been worse than it is right now and it's a combination of challenges and effort.

And I get all of it. I'm not, I'm not even criticizing it where there's some guys getting 20 going like, all right. And then if you fast forward to what the playoffs could be like with full arenas, with the way things are kind of opening up here again, it could be a bit of a like, oh, wait a minute. What? And look at Jamal, you know, Jamal Murray, who was great in the bubble. Absolutely.

And same thing with Donovan Mitchell. But everyone was, oh, it's the first time a player has done this and that. All right, let's take into account it is the bubble. And I said this when it started. I'm not going to say the championship is any less. I'm not going to say it's any more. Everyone wanted to say, oh, no, this was the hardest championship ever to win. So, of course, LeBron, who to me, it was a great finals for him.

He deserves a championship. It's going to count, just like Tim Duncan's first one counted in 99 when they played 50 games. But LeBron got caught up in that one, too. This was the greatest accomplishment. You know, I think one of the hardships he mentioned was he didn't have his chef with him in Orlando. LeBron, you were on Cleveland.

You were down 3-1 to the 73 when Golden State was. Don't try to top that. That's not happening. That is the greatest achievement of your life. Winning in the bubble is great. It's not bigger than winning in Cleveland. Sorry. You said it perfect at the beginning, though. I was not going to discount any of it, but

a lot of the LeBron stuff towards the end here is marketing for the Jordan debate. That that's all it is. And so when I saw him on the panel and it was ready, it was rehearsed. He'd already worked it out with the team.

You could tell he was like, I've won the two most difficult championships in NBA history. And the thing is, I'll give it to him on the golden state one. Yes. Like I, you know, I don't know that I'm going to argue against that one.

But then to say, like, I don't know, you played Portland, Houston, Denver, and the Heat. Like, I know it was the bubble and everything was going on. But, you know, I would look more at opponents. But he was basically telling you, hey, this is going to be part of my argument. So if I can get to five five but I won the two most difficult ever, is that better than 6-0 and all that stuff? You could just tell

exactly what rooted all this. Are you a LeBron guy then, Frank? Or go ahead. No, I... Come on. It's impossible not to admire. I think the things that he says, and I'll give you a perfect example because it happened recently. So last week, he had a game and after the game,

they asked him about minutes and resting. And then he went into this whole long speech about this narrative about me that I need rest. I've never been that kind of guy. I'm like, hang on a second. When you were in Cleveland, didn't you take two weeks off in Miami during the season? Weren't you the guy on the bench with Kyrie and Kevin Love in Staples Center against the Clippers sipping tea, or I'm assuming it was guy on the bench with Kyrie and Kevin Love in Staples Center against the Clippers, sipping tea, or I'm assuming it was tea, on the bench?

He used to do that all the time. But I think, to your point, for that kind of MVP argument, the greatest ever, he likes the fact that he's playing in every game, and he wants to make it seem like, I never take a day off. What happened after the game that they played on Tuesday night that they lost to Phoenix? No one mentioned anything that he wasn't going to play after everyone was long gone the media they announced. Oh, by the way, LeBron won't be playing in the Sacramento game because he did not want to sit in front of

the media and have them firing quite. Why aren't you playing in the game? That was like the Friday news dump that was oh, and by the way, LeBron's going to miss his first game this year. Okay. Are you in locker rooms when this gets back to normal again? Are you over that? I have a funny feeling the NBA might be over that.

I'd be very surprised to see how quickly they open those locker rooms back up. That era may be gone. And when you're a beat reporter, it's important. I always used to say, too. Okay, what is it? Because I want to hear this. Because buddies that played, not to name drop, but buddies that played like it's the dumbest thing ever and i'll just i'll set this up the first time i ever got into a locker room boston red socks 2003

and you're seeing veritech you know take his pants down his dick is out and there's seven people around him and i was like, it isn't a thing where you're like, okay, well, this is just what it is. And when the athlete goes, is that necessary? Is it truly necessary that I have to be naked in my locker room in front of all of these people, both men and women? Is that normal? And you're like, I guess it's normal because it's been happening for 80 years, right? It's been happening more than 80 years in baseball and all this kind of stuff. And then the pro player movement has shifted in a way, especially with silver in the NBA, that I think you're absolutely

onto something here where, I don't know, maybe the door is closed for him. So go ahead. I think as a beat writer, when you're around the team every day, now you're building up these relationships. It's like, if you walked into the Nick locker room back in the nineties and you've never been around and you want to strike up a conversation with Larry Johnson, it's not going to work. It was just something that you had to build up over time when you go into the home locker room. So if you go to Madison square garden, let's pretend it's three years ago, you walk into the locker room. It's like a cocktail party. It's a bunch of reporters kind of standing around, and there's no players there. Because the locker room that they use at the Garden is like a movie set. It's like a fake locker room. They're all in a different room kind of hanging out,

getting themselves ready. When you go on the road, the teams want, for the most part, the visiting team to be a little bit uncomfortable. Obviously, the great Red Auerbach was the master at it. They had like a little closet that they would use. So there's less reporters. And that's when you can build up a rapport with the players. My second year on the beat, it was either my second or third year on the beat. We were standing in the visiting team locker room in Dallas.

And I heard Patrick Ewing say, Frank, Frank. And I'm not turning around like, who the hell is Patrick Ewing calling? And then he finally taps me on the shoulder. He says, isn't your name Frank? I said, oh yeah, what's up? And then he was asking me a question. I had no idea that the guy knew who I was. And that's two years on the beat. So it takes a while. Like I was very close with Larry Johnson and Larry Johnson was the king of the locker room. Everybody

on the team respected. The older players like Patrick did, the young players who Larry went out and bought them suits because they were going to be inactive or on back then it was the injured list. We wanted them to look good on the bench. The guys like Charles Sprewell, the more hip guys, they liked them. And I sat and talked to Larry Johnson before every game and he would, he wouldn't kill people. He was telling me kind of what was going on with the team. And that gave me instant credibility in the locker room. The fact that Larry Johnson liked me and he was just a great guy. You know, most of the times we just had conversation, but he would help me out with stuff and, you know, lead me in the right direction. So when you build up a relationship like that over time, it's important. I'm sure

for the base, you cover the Red Sox for the Boston Globe. You're going to have a different relationship with the players and just these people that kind of float in every now and then. Now, when you walk into the locker room, they say, oh, there's the big star on TV. And the players also, they also buy into that nonsense too. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know about, I mean, look, I didn't have to go in and that's why I always said, you know, I tried to do it as a talk show host as informed as I possibly could knowing that I wasn't in the locker rooms. You know what I'm saying? And so I defer to you like the baseball beat. That's brutal. It's too much access.

It's too much. I did the Mets for two years and I feel, listen, I feel like I am invading somebody's space in the locker rooms. I do feel it's kind of their club and it, you know, I know this isn't politically correct, but it is an all male locker room. So it's a guy their club and it you know i know this isn't politically correct but it is an all male locker room so it's a guy's club in there i totally understand how women reporters would feel uncomfortable because the baseball oh my god i felt uncomfortable as a young dude exactly if you don't because you know the players they're looking at women in such a way of in it's not

every player but some of them objectifying them And then they're looking at you and saying, I wonder what kind of, he's not even an athlete. So there's this whole kind of weird dynamic that happens more so in a baseball locker room than I think happens in an NBA locker room. I think the players, I think they're a little bit different. Their attitudes towards women and female reporters is a lot better, I think, than it was in baseball. I always felt that because I covered the Nick beat with two reporters from the New York Times, Liz Robbins, Selena Roberts, and then Barbara Barker from Newsday. So there was always a woman reporter on the beat. And I thought the players were always like incredibly respectful and like not,

they didn't act like, you know, children or like fraternity guys. It wasn't any of that around the women reporters. Frank, this was terrific. I can't, I can't thank you enough for the time. I know you've got the radio thing going guys. It wasn't any of that around the women reporters. Frank, this was terrific. I can't, I can't thank you enough for the time. I know you've got the radio thing going. So why don't we plug that? So everybody knows what it is. All right.

I appreciate you having me on. Obviously about 10 people that you wanted to have on either couldn't do it today. So one guy that to me. So I appreciate that. But I know you're up every morning, seven to 10 on Sirius XM NBA radio. I'm on with your boy, Brian Scalabrini, Mr. Celtic pom-pom guy himself. Now, Brian does a great job. I got ESPN.

I got the Yes Network, Around the Horn, occasionally on PTI when they let me fill in, which is very nice of Michael Wilbon, Tony Kornheiser, and the crew down there. That's what I do. I'm the only person left in America that doesn't have a podcast. That's why I'm a guest on everybody's show. I'm the last guy. We're bringing you

back quick then. So this was a lot of fun. Thanks, man. Thanks, Ryan. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, rr at gmail.com. We'll get to a couple. We had our Mexican bender guy check back in. Remember him, Kyle?

Oh, how could I forget? Yeah, the guy that spent a ton of money. Mexican bender guy checked back in. Remember him, Kyle? Oh, how could I forget? Yeah, the guy that spent a ton of money. He also, I kind of glossed over it because he brought it up in a response email because he heard it and his buddies heard us talking about him. And he was like, you know, maybe now I don't need to spend five grand a night.

But then he also said something about, I think he got into the pharmaceuticals and he had kind of a bad experience with it. So he said the email helped and his buddies were all psyched to hear it, but he did want to clear up something for the audience that I think the audience does want to hear is that apparently his father, although loaded is really young. So apparently his dad parties too. Um, I'm just kidding. So his dad had him at a very young age. So he was like, whatever decisions I make, like whatever that money's's coming it's not like coming any day now because i'll be so much older that it won't really matter um he also made some adjustments to his millionaire status because uh he said after he

now calls himself a um a pre-tax millionaire so i thought that was kind of funny but yeah i mean the dude sounded like he really wanted help because then he even said he went to his friends and said hey get me get me back on track here so i don't know either he's going to stay wild for a little while but i think at the very least he realizes now after hearing the email that he could he can be wild for a much lower cost he put it around 800 a night which still seems uh it still seems high i know that bottle service stuff you know i remember the sopranos remember that sopranos episode where where aj blew all the money on bottle service yes and they kept stiffing him with the bill and then his parents were

yelling at him and he was like you guys have no idea how expensive bottle service is what a i know i watched it again recently and I wasn't just going start to finish but I was checking out some episodes and AJ was he was so perfect as the shithead teenage angst that's who he really was

if you listen to any of those interviews that he did about like coming off Sopranos it was like he was also AJ off of Sopranos and he's like so was also AJ off of Sopranos and he's like so honest about his stories and you probably would never want to sit through an hour of it, but just like, yeah, that's you. That's you.

Yeah, I've liked him in everything I've heard him doing. So I got to tell you, like, that's kind of what it reminded me. All right, so we don't need to recap all that, but I think there's some, I mean, there's guys, it's kind of like what we talk about on the podcast. And he's when a guy will email in and he's thinking, you know, there's these three girls and I'm juggling, they're all smoke shows. I'm pulling down six figures.

You know, how do I possibly get out of bed every day? And then, you know, you get the rest of the audience being like, I would, I would cut off a fucking finger to have that right on the back of a dump truck at four in the morning. Fuck you guys. Wife left me for my brother and I can't eat red meat anymore because of doubt. But yeah, hopefully the guy can juggle those three girls with his, with his beach condo. So, all right, we got, um, this one, this one actually spoke to me here. I don't know how deep I want to go with my own real estate ventures, both good and bad. But I'm worried. This email worried me.

Let me just put it that way. Because it says, sports radio host and newly married. Love the pod. Been listening, going back to the SVP days. My dad may be a bigger fan of yours than me, though. Well, that would make sense. Because when I started with Scott, you were probably 10. So, um, you know, some of those jokes at 10, you probably weren't getting, I will save all that because obviously I'm listening. I'm a fan. I'm also since married.

Um, Oh, that's just what he's saying. Also, since I am married, I don't need to flex my body stats for all the women out there. Age may be important. So yeah, again, 23 inside of where my life is right now. I like the way this guy sets up sentences. Been married a few months and started a new job at the end of the summer out of college, hosting a three-hour morning sports show

in a top 125 radio market. Okay, so my guess is that it's closer to 125. I just always think that's kind of interesting. Be like, yeah, I'm in a top 100 market. And you're like, oh, so you're in market 98. So you're like you should be, by the way, starting out, very few of us ever get the chance to. I was lucky at 27 to even be in Boston. So, you know, that was back then that that shit was hard. So good for you. All right. You're

starting at the bottom. It's a long grind. Good luck. After the show ends, I have to go make sales. Obviously, that is not surprising. You're working at a small radio station. I'm improving that aspect, but I still do not love it by any means. Hey, look, you don't like sales. You want to be on the air. You're on the air and you're doing both. That's what I did in the beginning too. Ultimate goal is to latch on to be able to do play by play for a baseball team long term. My professional life plays into my question in regards to my wife really wanting to buy a house soon. Our lease is up in the fall at the apartment we've been living in, and I am open to buying a house. I do think it's a great investment. I know that financially we can handle it already. Today, household income is close to

$90,000. A lot of that is attributed to her job with a large international corporation that oversees a ton of business. She also wants to strike while the iron is hot and the interest rates and everything else. I'm on board with looking for a house, but the wrinkle is I'm not sure how on board I should be at this point because of uncertainties that I have about my job. Not because of my radio ability or standing with the company. I think that is at least good, but I don't overly enjoy my coworkers, political extremes where I am pretty down the middle and just flat out don't care a ton about politics. The sales side of things, I wonder how long I'll actually be in the area. If an opportunity came up to take a big role at a station I had worked at during college came open, I co-hosted a sports

show and other sports obligations at College Town, I would love to jump at the opportunity. I may have to just suck it up right now, though, and fight on for a few years here to give my wife a fair chance at her job first. The question is, should we continue the process of searching for a house or should I sit down and have a conversation where there's some of these reservations

about looking for a house? Also, any professional advice you may have and some of the stuff mixed in there would also be appreciated and respected. I'll be quick on the last part. Look, I know the sales part sucks. It's not what you wanted to do,

but that part got you on the air. And that in itself is a lot. So you should feel really good about that accomplishment. You're on the air. That in itself is a lot. You should feel really good about that accomplishment. You're on the air. You're hosting stuff. Hopefully, you're near any kind of baseball play-by-play. You probably don't want to do high school play-by-play or community college or whatever is going on.

Get the reps. Play-by-play is reps. All of this is reps, but especially baseball play-by-play. On baseball play-by-play, let baseball breathe. I did not let it breathe. Let the action kind of happen you know don't talk the whole fucking time i did that it was wrong i talked way too much um because i was you know insecure about the fact i was on the air doing play by play for double a red socks and i had never called a game any anything. All right. So there you go. The more

concerning thing here is the house. It doesn't make any fucking sense for you to buy a house. None. But your wife's probably not thinking that. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. I can't tell you. I'm adamant about this. Don't buy a house. You're in an industry where you're probably going to change your job, hopefully three or four times over the next decade to get to where you want to go. So if you're in a market that's top 125 radio market, and that means, let's be honest here. So we're probably looking at a market that's outside of the top 100. Why do you want to own a house in one of those markets to begin with? It'd be one thing if you were living somewhere where you say, hey, you know what? Rent's a waste of money. I want to get in the game. And even if I buy this place, but I move, I have the flexibility of renting it out, maybe making some money. The

way we set up the mortgage, we have principal being paid. Although in the beginning of any kind of mortgage, depending on what you look at, and there's a million different products, so I don't want to hear from the mortgage guys on this. But generally, for what you're going to get approved for, for that household income and the numbers that you're looking at, you're not going to be paying a ton of principal down in the first third of the mortgage anyway. I just sold a house in Connecticut finally that I couldn't sell forever because it was basically way below what I had bought it for eight years ago because property taxes were jacked way up in the state because the state's all fucked up and it ruined people saving their whole lives for the down payment. And all of a sudden on paper,

that's all magically gone because the property tax has driven down the prices. And again, not to be tax guy here, but these are real grown up things that you have to worry about. So I finally was able to sell something and you add up all the numbers eight years later of having a tenant and what you put in and principal versus interest. And you go, wait, so I paid this off for like eight years and this is the check that I'm getting back, which isn't even that much more You put in and principal versus interest and you go, wait, so I paid this off for like eight years and this is the check that I'm getting back, which isn't even that much more considering I sold it kind of for what I bought it eight years ago. I mean, it ended up being a bad investment.

I'm not asking for anybody to cry for me. I'm simply telling you that the idea of home ownership is amazing, but there are a bunch of factors that you have to think of here. And unfortunately, it sounds like your wife just wants a house. I don't know what town it is, like I said, but it doesn't sound like it's a town where real estate's fucking booming. You're not going to want to go back and visit. And you should desperately want the flexibility. Now, look, if she says, hey, my job here is great and this is where I work and that's it. This email scares me, man, is my point because it sounds like you guys are in two completely different pages. You are in an

industry where you need the ability to move and to do the down payment, to go through the mortgage process and all the paperwork that sucks and you're thinking you're done and then the place calls again and then they call again and then it's like, oh, this might not happen. And then it magically happens to go through all of that when you could in a year be getting an offer to go somewhere else. And you don't even want to be there. Like if there was another version of it's like, hey, I like her job. And you know, if I was here 10 years, then fine. But the home ownership thing is great. And then as far as the rates, like, yeah, the rates are really low, but you know, they're not going to, again, I don't want to be more

mortgage rate predictor guy here, but you know, they're, they're seemingly low. And on your purchase price, you know, a quarter of a point here, a quarter of a point there, I don't know that it's going to, you know, massively impact what your payment is. So the easier part of this is you guys got to get on the same page because your job at this stage at 23, even if you could afford the home, even if it was in a place that you kind of liked, really what I think you need is you need the freedom to leave. You need the freedom of, Hey, this is the lease and I'm up and I can renew it, move somewhere else or bounce. So yeah, try to get on the same page with her first because if she just wants the house and stuff,

I don't know that you guys have talked this out enough. You could rent a house. My mom did that for years, and the guy was cool enough when she decided she wanted to buy it that he was like, all right, well, we'll knock some off the price because you've been renting it all this time anyway. I hear a lot of people say they hope that they're going to get that kind of hookup and i would say it almost never works so congrats congrats to your mom for pulling that

one off but there are so many guys that i've known that have rented some sweet spot and they're like you know i've talked to the guy that owns it you know maybe you figure out like like no because that would mean that the two years you were paying my mortgage, that you now want that all to count towards a down payment. So that means for those two years, and I actually didn't have anybody paying off my mortgage because now we're just moving the numbers around and I've lost it on the sale price. Unless of course the owner, you know, the appraisal has gone down in the two years you've been renting it or something like that. But look, I wanted to have a house like everybody else did. And I

couldn't get one. And looking back on it in those early years, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, not really owning a place that wasn't easy to move on from. I did buy a condo thing, but it was super, super temporary. And it was located enough in Boston that I knew that I could get out whenever I needed to. But I don't know how many people are listening to this going, yes, this makes a ton of sense. I would think more people are going, yep, yep, he knows what he's talking about. I would hope so.

Kyle, how did you feel about that? Again, I got no thoughts. I've never even come close to thinking about buying a house, especially in this town. I think if I was back home, I'd be like, well, I'm getting up there. Maybe I could start thinking about not wasting money on rent. But this town, it's like a cottage is like 1.2 million. And it's just it's discouraging. Yeah, I feel bad for the younger generation on this, on some of these cities.

I don't know what you're supposed to do. I just don't. I don't know how you get in. I mean, it's brutal. It's brutal, especially with the college debt part of it. That's the amount of debt that the, I don't know, society's the right word or whatever. The amount of debt that they seem okay with handing down to young people is just, it's a joke.

So it sucks. All right, here we go. Um, love the show. SVP days. Also the Kyle commentary as well. He just wanted to let you know regarding Dune.

The original movie is trash, but the books are phenomenal. Um, our guys, Luke, your guy is named Luke. That's his fake name. Okay. Said the first three books are phenomenal um our guy's luke your guy is named luke that's his fake name okay said the first three books are phenomenal i don't see you as a guy that's gonna just hunker down and read a thousand pages of dune though kyle probably not i've been getting into

the audiobook game uh it's basically like a podcast for me at this point um so you know you never know i got that george washington book i think it was churn out kind of a mistake uh you did get it i yeah paid like like i don't know it was like more than the book even would cost to get it on tape and holy shit it's long and the guy who reads it is not exciting which i mean what would you expect but yeah maybe do it on tape i'll i'll do i don't know okay but i'll i'll see you know this is the the rule with the churn out books you got to get through the first 150 200 pages um and then i know that sounds ridiculous but he just wants to set everything up he wants to set up the family history yeah i'm still on early and his shoulders and fucking christ what's that washington's height

and his shoulders and he was a broad man and and his he had brothers here and he's got cousins there and holy shit so i don't know he's a big dude yeah there's something about washington's chest it's a real chesty guy he wasn't as tall as everybody made him out to be because the original measurement they did with his feet they were broken down because of the way he was put in the coffin. So we'll get to the real story stuff after 100 pages, I guess. Okay. Yeah, but just him rallying the troops. Like, not there.

I'm not there yet. Yeah. No, that stuff starts. It's just Valley Forge, all that kind of stuff. It's incredible. But he was a huge flirt, big spender, but we've been over it. Huge flirt. But I don't think he

screwed around the way I feel. Growing up, I used to always hear jokes about how he was just a complete he's like the first Kennedy. But that's just not the case. I just think he liked ladies being in the mix. You know what I'm saying? When we had after hours deals back in the the day bartending it wasn't that you were dating any of the girls

hanging out later we just knew it was way more fun when they were there even if there was nothing you know what i mean it just and that's how washington was he was like if he had late nights as his his dive bar in the 90s he would have been like hey there's no girls hanging out like i don't want to just hang out and talk about the conversations are way less dumb when there's girls there yeah i agree yeah but he would constantly be like dancing with other people he was writing letters to this family friend's wife which i think were like that was essentially having a fair just writing a letter via carrier once every six months and i mean the language isn't unbelievable he'd be like you know it is it is often I think of the thoughts of you

and dare I say, I don't want to think them, but yet I still do. And it's just, maybe I should have done the audio book of it. Maybe I'll get back in. Maybe I'll try it again. I'm running through a Michael Crichton pirate book right now. So more exciting. If you've got a pirate book distracting you, then, okay. So anyway, back to Dune.

He goes, he's really excited. He reread all the the dune books i can't believe we're still on this it's my fault apologies to everybody um they're putting off the release until the pandemic is done he loves that kyle is also a space guy me too i used to be a rocket scientist did some astronaut training now i'm an advisor for nasa fuck yeah also big on star Wars and Hitchhiker's Guide. Oh, he dropped a handle for you, Kyle, for you to be able to follow him later on. All right, get that to me later. Yeah, but see, the problem is now

people are going to look at yours and see who you followed, and then they're going to find out this NASA guy. Maybe I can't do it. Yeah, so here's the guy's dilemma. We have a very close group of 10 dudes going on seven eight years now the group composition is five core guys i'm verifiably in the core so we're talking to a core guy okay three dudes that are awesome but not around as much and

two dudes that are around a bunch but definitely less awesome let's call them in the latter group uh oh one of them so all fake names here let's call that in the latter group. Oh, one of them. So all fake names here. Let's call that guy Slim. Yeah, there's not a lot of guys running around named Slim, so that does seem like a fake name. Slim also has the disadvantage of not doing well with the ladies.

Event number one, 2015. 20-person camping trip outside of Louisiana. No, I think it's Los Angeles. And Slim brought a girl he recently met. Let's call her Kim. They shared a tent. It was still obvious they weren't hooking up because she's too hot for him.

It was not really hanging out with him on the trip. Fast forward a week and she reaches out to me, which led us to hanging out, then dating for six months. Okay. Slim, certifiably pissed, even though the girl and I both had one-on-one chats with him to clear the air very early on. Event number two. At a pregame I was hosting in 2017, it was deja vu.

Let's call her Kat this time. Something about the Ks. The next weekend, Kat and I meet up for drinks and ended up dating for 10 months. Slim, again, certifiably pissed, even though I was very honest with him right after my first date with Kat because we had a good thing going. Of course, it's a running joke that Slim should never bring girls around me, but even now he's still buttered and pissy sometimes. In both situations, I was relatively distant in the first hangout. For example, I never had malicious sniping intentions. The girl made the first move. I talked with um i think he mixes this up and drops the guy's name here but i think he's referencing slim here again i talked with slim early on

sure the evidence doesn't look great even though slim never had a chance with either of them but how wrong am i here for um going through with two really good dating experiences i would stop doing it to him um would be maybe the first thing I would think of. I mean, I get it, you know, but if anybody's ever been the third guy where she doesn't like you and she likes your friend, it still sucks. It still sucks to be like, well, Hey, she never really liked you anyway. I mean, that, that sucks to hear. Nobody wants to hear that. And if you're a core guy, then it sounds like he probably likes you more than he likes or you like him because you're already dismissing him as saying he's outside of the core group, right? So if it's 10 guys, he's ranked nine or 10 out of this group based on what

you're saying. So I don't know that really anybody's wrong. I just think it's a shitty thing to keep doing to this guy that you're still close enough with that you're going on trips with. So, I mean, you can't meet any, any women on your own. It sounds like you probably could is if you show up to these things and all of a sudden they like you. So I'm not even like giving you a hard time about it. And yeah, we could sit there and be real adult and say, Hey, this woman doesn't like him. She likes me, but you don't want to keep doing it to him. Right. I don't think that that's wrong. Cause again, we've every, every guy has their group and you know, everybody kind of fits their roles. And if you're always the guy that's ending up with the girl that the other guy brings

to the group, then you don't, I mean, do you want to be that guy? I don't think you want to be that guy. So I think what you're asking here is for a ruling. And I don't think you've necessarily done anything wrong, but I think it's kind of a bad habit to have unless, I mean, does it happen with other guys? Do you do it to any of your other friends? I don't know that answer, but if you do it then, then maybe it is about you. Or maybe you just look at Slim and you're like, that guy's pathetic. And you know, why would I And why would I let him get in the way of me dating here? But it's just kind of a bad trend. And yeah, this guy hates your guts. And when he explains it, I'm sure people hear his version of events and go, well, that kind of sucks. Why does that guy keep doing that? So I think the fact that you even wrote in about it to be like, hey, what's going on? You realize

something's probably a little off. But again, I'm not like on your case. I don't think you're a bad guy, but I don't know that you would want to keep doing that to somebody. If I were him, I wouldn't want to be your friend. You know who I wouldn't go camping with if I'm slim? You. Hit us up, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Please subscribe. And we will be back on Friday. you