The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NFL Combine Recap With Daniel Jeremiah and Bruce Feldman | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

Russillo shares some thoughts about COVID-19 (1:15) before talking with NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah about the NFL combine, Tua Tagovailoa vs. Joe Burrow, an awesome WR class, some mock draft picks, stories from the war room, and more (15:18). Then Ryen talks to Bruce Feldman of Fox Sports and 'The Athletic' about COVID-19's effect on college football programs, Jalen Hurts at the NFL combine, prospects who are getting NFL scouts' attention, 2021 draft narratives, and more (38:35). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan rusillo podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like basketball the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. It's almost like this were written for the events of the last 24 hours. No one expected this. I'm going to get to some of this because that's the biggest news going right now. The NBA suspending this season and the bigger picture stuff, which I do not have any answers to and don't pretend to. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected.

Talk to a State Farm agent today. So the plan for today, and I apologize for being off, but I had an emergency or I had to go back to the East Coast. Everything is fine, and I will get to that as it plays into what is the overall headline with the coronavirus. But we have Daniel Jeremiah, former front office member in the NFL and NFL Network, and Bruce Feldman, the athletic Fox Sports. We're going to just do a bunch of post combine stuff.

So very, very draft heavy. That's what I like to do for you guys when I think everybody, I could do an hour with the coronavirus expert, but I don't even know. I don't know who the experts are. I read the stuff that you guys read and I watch what you guys watch. And that's kind of where today's open is. And I don't know how this is going to go over, but I'm just going to go ahead and do it. My first thought is, you know, I think all of us selfishly, it's a little different for me because I don't have a wife and I don't have kids. And I can't imagine how stressful that is for the majority of you that do, that are listening to this right now and just trying to keep your loved ones safe.

majority of you that do, that are listening to this right now and just trying to keep your loved ones safe. I know that I'm probably on the side of, well, let's see what happens here. Everybody's freaking out. The stock market's a mess. Okay, the stock market's a mess again. What's really going on? Should I be wearing a mask now? To the people who are flying around with masks on all the time, do they actually have it figured out? Oh, wait a minute. Now, I just read an article that said the masks don't even work. Should you shave your beard? Yeah, you should. Oh no, it doesn't matter. And all of these different things. And my biggest issue, as you know, is just anybody that's out there for the clout who sends off the flu stat death ratio coronavirus thing. And it's like, look, if you don't understand the difference of these things,

coronavirus thing. And it's like, look, if you don't understand the difference of these things, just stop it. Stop with your flu coronavirus content and trying to get clicks as if you know what you're talking about because you don't. And with the NBA season being suspended, I don't know what the solution is. I texted somebody in the NBA today. I said, do you have anything that I can talk about that will help me navigate through the options and the uncertainty? And the answer was like, no, we don't know what we're doing right now. So yes, does it feel like it could be excessive? Sure. But if you read about any of this stuff, and as I look at some of the maps of infected areas, and I believe the number as of this taping right now is 185,000 cases that we know of, almost 90,000 in China alone. And what, under 1,000 here in the United States?

I don't go, oh, well, hey, we're good. We're good. We don't know. We don't know. What's going on with the testing kits? Are other countries that much better at this than us? Or did we underestimate it? Did our leaders underestimate it?

Did, you know, are we just playing catch up and then we're going to be able to slow this thing down too? Should I buy more water? How come toilet paper's missing? You know, who are these people that are buying Purell and then selling them for 10 times as much on eBay, you pieces of shit. So, you know, I don't know any answers.

So coming to me for answers was your first mistake because we're going to talk football the majority of this podcast. Now, if I think about my circumstances in particular, a couple of my friends and I were texting this morning as we're all going through like, hey, are the kids in school? Are they out of school? Do you need anything? Should I look for a place in a mountain somewhere? All these thoughts kind of cross through your mind. And I think anybody that's like, I don't care, flights are cheap, I'm getting on one. I kind of envy your braveness. And that's probably the way I would have been years and years ago. But yeah, I went out and

bought a ton of groceries because I don't know. I don't know. And if I have frozen chicken in my freezer for a long time and I didn't need it, then that's fine. That's not that big of a deal. I'm just not going to be able to retire like a lot of you now as we look at our 401ks. But if you want to run through my last two weeks, I went to Salt Lake City for a jazz game. And we knew once one player tested positive as Rudy Gobert did, and now Donovan Mitchell, his teammate, tested positive, the NBA wasn't going to let a team get wiped out and then keep playing games. So not only is it a safety issue, it's also an issue about like, well, what are you supposed to do if one team gets quarantined here and then what, their playoff run is over? Like, you can't do any of those things. Like you can't do any of those things. You know, I mean, that was just once, once that happened, it was over. I was at home going, all right, which games do I really want to watch? I want to watch OKC Jazz.

I'm like, how come the refs just left and grabbed their jackets? How come the hype team is out there with a t-shirt gun and there's a dude running around, Lenny Kravitz, are you going to go my way? Like what, what is going on here? And then you're like, oh, actually this game is canceled. So it's really, really scary stuff. And the PA announcer goes, hey, everybody's safe. Game's canceled. Single file. It's just weird. It's weird. This is different. This is weird. And if we really let our minds wander,

we can talk ourselves into being really scared. And I'm not saying that any of us need to do that, but I think it's just the reality of feeling like we're entering kind of an unknown. And maybe we'll look back and say, hey, you know what? That wasn't really that big of a deal. It was a bit of an overreaction. And I hope that's what it is. I hope the biggest mistake is that we overreacted. And I hope the biggest mistake is that these leagues overreacted, but yeah, I went to Utah two weeks ago, walked around courtside for a jazz game. This is unbelievable. Now that I think about the entire thing, I feel fine. I went to Park City for a couple of days. I then had to fly to Boston because of an emergency. Everybody's fine. Not a big deal. So I flew cross country again, although LA to Utah, certainly not cross country. I fly cross country. I go to another jazz game

courtside. My buddy next to me dabs up one of the jazz players that he played with um and we were texting about that this morning again we both feel fine i was in and out of a hospital all week dealing with something um not me and that scares you now looking back on it and then you know um got on another flight and flew cross country. So that was, that was my week. So I, uh, I don't know. So this is the part where I don't know if this is going to be well-received or not, but I'm just going to say it because it actually has to do with the evolution of what it is that I do. You know, right now, no matter where you are in the political spectrum, I think it is a necessity that you help people, whether you're on TV as an anchor, on the radio as a host, or an elected official, that

unfortunately feels like everybody is just playing out their MJ LeBrons here. And that's not what this is. This is people's health. This is the economy. This is a million different things that are more important than sports and the combine stuff that I'm going to talk about. But what's happened in television and radio is that anybody that's on, the opinion people matter more than the straight people matter. No one says anymore, you know who really stands out? That guy who plays it right down the middle and just delivers me the scores. That doesn't work anymore in this business.

And I actually think that the sports industry has been influenced by the news stations, whether it's Fox News or CNN and the opinion people on. I really do believe that because a lot of the people that were directing some of the earlier debate shows would openly admit to me, they're like, yeah, we watch Fox News, we watch CNN, we steal bits from there and we try to implement that and a lot of the earlier debate shows would openly admit to me. They're like, yeah, we watch Fox News, we watch CNN, we steal bits from there, and we try to implement that in a lot of the back and forth, and that's what's happened in sports. And it is still fairly new. This is a new thing of the last few years,

the hot take generation and all that. This has not been around. Not that people didn't have opinions, but I think you understand the excessiveness of it, the never admitting defeat on your take, the only playing out the predictable thing. I feel this way about Tom Brady, so I will never, ever deviate, ever. I will die before I deviate or admit defeat on my opinion from years ago. That's just what the business seems to be right now. As I said, the guy that plays it

straight is the guy that does not stand out and is not going to have as much of a career. When I'm home watching the news or I'm watching elected officials, and I think right now, just to get out of the way, I know you probably can assume a lot about my political beliefs. I don't really share them that much because I don't think there's much of a point because I think there are people everywhere in the country like, wait a minute, he said that? Okay, well, I really loved his NBA stuff,

but now I'm never going to listen to him because he said this about the borders. I'm not going to really do him because he said this about the borders. I'm not going to really do that because you can't really win, even though it seems like everybody wants to share their political opinion the entire time. I have some beliefs that would make people on the far right think I was living in a commune. And I have some people that are on the left. If I said some things about what I felt about different economic things, you'd be like, oh, that guy's a full-blown Trump supporter. So I think that's what I tend to do is I talk about these things. But I'll tell you this, Trump is not good at this. He's not good at the public speaking. We know that part of it. And if it's one political part of it, you go, okay, you know what? I can disagree with his beliefs here. I can disagree with here,

this, but it's not helping. And that's a problem. Like just whether it was two days ago where he complimented himself for how he handled this or, um, his address late last night, it's just, it's just not going over well. And you can see people that are reacting to it. Now on the other side, I don't need the AOC dropping a video on me, telling me I'm racist. If I don't want to go to Chinese restaurant either. And that's what happens is that in the face of this, that should have nothing to do with politics. It's becoming about politics the entire time. Whether it's Sean Hannity on his talk show

saying that this entire thing is a hoax and perhaps part of a deep state, Hannity actually saw something on Twitter where he said, he's quoting a tweet that the whole coronavirus is a fraud by the deep state to spread panic in the populace, manipulate the economy and suppress dissent. And Hannity said, maybe true. Rush Limbaugh said, this coronavirus, nothing like wiping out the entire US economy with a bio threat for China is there.

Somebody on Fox Business also said, another attempt to impeach the president. Now, I also watched Don Lemon's act last night on CNN, where, look, he just is going to trash anybody, and yet he's the host of the show. And I guess you're allowed to do that. But I think what you're learning here is that I don't really have much patience for anyone politically on either side of this, especially now. It used to be that television and radio is where you went when you needed to find answers that you could trust. And now I trust none of you, none of you. And that's a problem. It's not left or right. It's not pro or anti-Trump.

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Now, let's just start at least with how this coronavirus is impacting you. I thought you were headed home, but you're still up. Are you still up in Eugene? Yeah, I got up here yesterday, flew into Portland, and then drove down to Eugene last night. So we got the Oregon Pro Day. I think it starts at two. So I'll be heading over there in about an hour or so.

But yeah, still on as we're talking right now. Who knows by the time this posts, whether or not it happens. But assuming it's going to go down. It's been, bro, it's been so weird. Yesterday was my 20th wedding anniversary. So we had... And you're like 35, yeah 40 42 42 we got started young we got started young but but but i was like you know as every romantic wants to do you want

to take your wife to eugene you know for uh to celebrate your 20th anniversary yeah yeah it's not bad underrated underrated so we you know we had the flights to go into Portland. We're going to get a dinner last night in Portland and then just come down here. And I'd go to the pro day and then we'd get in the car and head home, uh, back to the airport and head home. But she, um, the night before she was like, ah, this coronavirus, it's kind of, yeah, it's kind of spooking me a little bit. So she pulled out. So I've been up here. Uh, I've been up here in Eugene, just kind of monitoring, uh, monitoring Twitter to see all these things that are canceling and all these changes that are happening. As of now, this Pro Day is going to go on. I would guess the way things are trending right now, this might be the last week for Pro Days.

Is that what you're hearing? Is there any piece of information that you feel good about sharing as far as like what, what the plan will be here now and even visits now with, with, with draft picks. I mean, I can imagine a lot of that's going to be video conferencing. Yeah. I,

my phone has absolutely blown up from scouts, you know, they were concerned and wanted to know what was going on. And then people hire up in organizations that have said, you know, we're pulling guys and every, I mean, every hour there's one or two more teams that are pulling their team, their scouts and coaches off the road. So that's inevitable that we're going to see that continue. And then agents have been talking to me saying, hey, I'm not going to be sending my kids on these visits.

You know, so I would imagine, you know, with technology, you know, to be able to FaceTime or Skype these guys and get all the information you need there would be great. The medical stuff is a little bit tricky, just in terms of the non-combine guys. The 330-plus guys, which is going to be the majority of your best players in this draft class, they've all had their medical done at the combine. So you don't worry about them. But you get down to the day three guys, the end of the day, three guys, plus the free agents. Some of them have injury concerns and you don't get a chance to get good medical on them. That's the, uh, you know, that to me would be the biggest issue, everything else you can do remotely. Yeah, that makes sense. I would think

until we have a better understanding of what's going on, um, all the precaution that teams are going to take too. And the other thing, like I kind of said at the top, is that a lot of this is about following somebody else's lead as soon as this happens. Everybody else is like, even if we were on the fence about suspending any of this kind of stuff. So, all right, let's dig into the football stuff here because that's

more fun to talk about. We know that. All right. Absolutely. I'll start with, you know how much I've loved this LSU thing. I've talked to you about it. But even I would think Tua, healthy. I liked him better as the prospect. I watched him go back and forth on sideline, even though Burrow had the better game.

I think there's still little things with Tua that I liked a little bit more. We know that it's more about health here. How would you match those two up if Tua weren't going through what we've seen with the ankle stuff and now the hip stuff this year? Yeah, I still have Tua. I mean, I still have Burrow, sorry. I've taken that into account. I think it's close.

I think if you eliminate the injury, it's really, really close. I like both of them a lot. But I've just seen Burrow, in my opinion, play at a higher clip at a higher level against better opponents and under pressure. So with both these teams and you've seen them, they're superstar laden teams. So a lot of the tape you almost kind of throw out because you're 11 or just so much better than the other 11 you're playing against. So I tried to really zero in and say, okay, let's watch them against good opponents. And then through the video stuff you can do now, I can sort every single throw you make under pressure.

And Burrow had a lot more opportunities. It's funny because everybody knows their offensive line won the Joe Moore Award, but he had almost 200 throws where he was under pressure, if you look at him, over the last year. And two, I think it was like in the 60s. But even in that difference in sample size, I just saw Burrow perform better in those conditions. And that to me is pretty important. So working through progressions, delivering the ball accurately, good decisions. I thought Burrow was off the charts.

And I think his ability to create more with his legs, I think people always talk about Tua and his athleticism. I think Burrow does a lot more creating with his legs than Tua does. I'm really glad you said that about the offensive line because at certain points I thought it was average this year for LSU. They definitely got better as it went along considering who they took out, but that's a really good point because I think a lot of people are going to look at that award at the end of the year, and they're going to go, oh, Burrow had all these things around him because he definitely had the receiving core, but the same as Tua.

I actually love this tweet from you. How many NFL teams would trade their NFL receiving core for either Bama or LSUs? What do you think that number is? See, I said about 20, right? Or 20 plus. And people on Twitter lost their minds and that you're crazy. And I said, no, I'm not talking about just the draft eligible guys. I'm talking about their entire receiving core. And let's take Alabama. Dude, there's four first round guys in that group. You're going to have Judy and R rugs are both going to go in the top 15 this year.

Rugs is going to enter the NFL and be the second fastest player in the league. You know, when you just watch the way he plays Tyree kill, but the only person with more game speed than Henry rugs, Judy's got a chance to develop into a number one wide out. Both those guys are top 15 picks. When you watch waddle there at Alabama,

he might end up being better than all these guys. And he jumped on when you watch him. He's unbelievable. And then Devontae Smith is going to run in the low four threes as well. Waddle is going to run in the four threes. So you got one guy that runs in the four twos, three that run in the four threes. And the fourth one is the most complete receiver of the bunch in Jerry Judy. So that to me, teams would be tripping over themselves to swap out what they have for those guys.

And I think it's, I think it's very similar when you look at LSU, because I think Jefferson is going to emerge as one of the best slot receivers in the NFL. He's phenomenal. And then you look at Jamar Chase and what he brings, and then you have Marshall as well. I mean,

these teams are loaded. This is, this is is rare rare talent we're talking about yeah davante smith doesn't get any love and he he's he's awesome and i'm not put up all the numbers right and i'm not saying like he should be talking about more than judy and i'm with you on the waddle thing because you know look i i loved even in blowouts i loved watching bama because of those receivers because i'm like i just want to see which one of these guys is going to go off today so when people hear that i don't know that they understand especially watching that thing in person you go there's there's eight high draft receivers in this game right now and i don't know i don't know i don't know another time when it's when it's ever been like that. Speaking of, though, I still think I like CD better this whole year than Judy. And I know, you know, my boy McShay, when I would go, why is why is Judy Judy always ahead of him? Why is he always ahead of him? He'd be like route running, route running, route running. Where is the CD lamb Jerry Judy debate now as we get a lot closer to this? Jerry Judy debate now as we get a lot closer to this?

I've had it the same way all the way through. I think there's three big-time elite dudes, and I've had it the same order every time. I have CeeDee Lamb, then Jerry Judy, then Ruggs. It is a little bit of a flavor debate. CeeDee Lamb, to me, what he does after the catch sets him apart. Just his tenaciousness and his, his, uh, his strength, his competitiveness. And I think he's an outstanding route runner. I think he's got better hands than Judy. It's more consistent, especially in, you know, kind of contact catches. Um, I think he brings you more of that. I think he's got more versatility. I think you'd be able

to, he's going to be able to win outside or inside. I think Judy will settle in as a slot. Um, I think it'll be outstanding, but I think he's going to settle in to win outside or inside. I think Judy will settle in as a slot. I think he'll be outstanding, but I think he's going to settle in as a slot receiver. So I have, I was just texting with the GM the other day and we were kind of going back and forth about these guys. And he was like, look, I think CD Lamb is not in the, you know, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones group, but he's as good as we've seen going back to the year

where we had all those dudes. I think it was at 14 when we had Odell and Mike Evans and all those guys. He's the best receiver we've seen over the last few years. Where does the top end? Where does it break? Because I always like looking at it as tiers. Sometimes you'll feel like, okay, look, there's only three special guys, tiers, and sometimes you'll feel like, okay, look, there's only three special guys, and that could be its own tier. But as I start going through the list and start realizing where Derrick Brown is going to be six or seven, some of these tackles could be going 10. Where do you see the drop-off? I feel like maybe 10 or 11, and again, that's me, you're probably going to disagree, but where would you see where there is maybe a significant break kind of into

that next group in the first round? I still have it. I would say just looking at my grades, kind of how I have these guys stacked up grade-wise, the drop-off for me happens more around like, you know, 15 or so. So I think there's 14 or 15 really, really highly graded players in this draft. So the end of that run for me, I have the receivers at nine, 10, 11 with CD lamb, Jerry, Judy, Henry rugs. And then I have two more offensive linemen. I would throw in there where I have Jedrick wills from Bama and I have worse from Iowa. So that gets me through my first 13. Um, so that to me would probably be where the tier is because after that,

um, and I love Justin Jefferson, he's my next guy there, but then you have Justin Jefferson, Patrick Queen, Swift, Andrew Thomas, like Xavier McKinney, all really,

really good players. But there's a little bit of a difference in the grade from those top guys. So do you not have Ken? You, you must have Kinlaw in that group from South Carolina, right? Ken Law, he's my eighth player. Oh, so you know who he is? He's Marcus Stroud.

That's who he is. That's who he reminds me of. So you have Wills. You have Werfs out of Iowa. What about Becton, the big kid from Louisville? He has to be in that team, right? Yeah, he's my sixth player. Yeah, he's a freak.

Look, when you have a premier position and a freak, you put him up there. And that dude, he's rare. I just call him Mount Becton. To me, he's a better player. I believe he's going to be a better player than Bryant McKinney. Same type of body. But, yeah, he's way up there for me. So I have him as the top tackle.

My tackle order is Becton, and then I have a little bit of a drop, and then that's where I have Wills and Wirfs. Did you have times with the teams that you were with, what, Philly, Baltimore, and Cleveland, where you had guys that always fell in love with the bodies? Oh, yeah. you had guys that always fell in love with the bodies where you, Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

How does that happen? Like, how does that debate happen where you're, you may be talking to a guy being like, look, I know you're MO. Like sometimes scouting your scouts is as important as scouting the players. Right.

So how would you, how would you handle certain guys who were like, you always love the massive dudes that test well. Yeah. Yeah. We had, uh, we had coaches that were like that.

So even more so than scouts. So we knew like, we got to find a way to frame this so we can sell this to the coach. Like, uh, a great example, you know, Juan Castillo was offensive line coach for us in Philadelphia. Juan would always go around and say, I just give me, I just want athletes with give me links athletes. And, uh, and, and he wanted I just want athletes with – give me length athletes. And he wanted big guys. He would walk around the office and say, mass kicks ass. It was his whole thing. So, like, if we had kind of a – somebody that was maybe a little bit shorter armed or somebody that maybe didn't fit the height, weight, speed specs, like, he didn't want to mess with those guys.

He wanted that ultra, ultra long, big, big, thick dude. And there's only so many of those guys. And so you end up really, really, really trying to sell the other stuff hard to get him to buy in on some of those things. Now, sometimes he was right. Sometimes we were right. It wasn't always one way or the other, but everybody has a type. Trust me, everybody. Okay. Chase Young, we understand or the other, but everybody has a type. Trust me, everybody. Okay, Chase Young, we understand. Maybe the most talented guy is an edge guy. Brown's an interior, although I do think you can maybe get away with doing some different things with him. And then Chase Son at LSU, who I liked more last year in the very beginning, the Miami game. I knew he was hurt and he missed the whole year. I think he disappears at times. So I wonder if his middle, some people have him going maybe 10. I'll ask you what you think about him, but is he, maybe if you, I don't know if you agree or disagree, is he getting bumped up because it just

feels like there is a lack of edge guys, at least in the first round? Yeah, there's a, there's a enormous drop off after Chase Young, uh, when you're looking at the edge guys here. So I have him as my 25th player. I, to me, he's a, he's a late one, um, who's probably going to get pushed up into the teams because of, uh, you know, just because the lack of depth of the position, I've seen a lot of things I really like about him, right? I mean, he's, you know, how twitched up and explosive he is. You saw him come on at the end of the year. I gave him a little forgiveness earlier in the year because of coming off the injury. But he plays high at times.

That's something you want to see. He's got to lower his pads. He's not a real polished rusher. He's more of an athlete than a rusher. He's really good on games when they loop him and do games with him. But he's still developing. The thing with him, though, is you have a raw, explosive player that you've got a chance of developing to be a really good player.

He, to me, he's not as big, but when Marcus Davenport was coming out, he was kind of the same way where you're buying what he's going to be, not necessarily what he is right now. Yeah, he definitely got better as the season went along. But I really, as you say, hey, I have him later in the first round. I'm like, okay, because I've seen him as high as 10 or 11 in some places. And I'm not just talking about Tim's mock destination.tv. Even though Tim puts in the work.

Okay, on the clock. Here we go. So this is a game I like to play. I give you a team where they're at, and then I give you three players that are on the board, and usually it's some scenario here where some guys have fallen, and you may just roll your eyes. It may be, who knows, maybe a guy's caught inhaling weed through a gas mask,

and now all of a sudden he's sitting there at 11. All right, so you're running the Jets. By the way, real quick, Ryan, before you get to that. Of course. I had a team that was talking. Chase Young at the combine was kind of funny because he was not getting a lot of interviews with teams because we don't have any shot at this guy. He's going to be the second or third pick. So he was just kind of bored sitting there.

So one of my buddies with the team picking later in the first round went over and spent time with him talking for 15, 15, 20 minutes, just like he loved the kid. And he goes, and Chase goes, man, they asked him, said, Chase, would you like to play? Would you like to play for our team? Yeah, I'd love it, but there's just no way he goes, Oh no, there's a way he goes. What do you mean? He goes, I'll let you borrow my gas mask. You just got to shoot the video. And, uh, he said, Chase Young just started dying, laughing. It was funny. So the team guys said that to Chase. Yeah, the team guy said, I'll get you a mask, man. You just got to shoot the video.

That's good. That is funny. And as long as Chase laughed. Okay, you're running the Jets. You're there at 11. For whatever reason, Becton is still there. Yeah. Derek Brown is still there. Yeah. Derek Brown is still there.

And CD lamb is there at 11. Well, it's funny because I have it. If you just go off of based off of the player, I have Derek Brown. Then I'd have Becton. Then I'd have CD lamb. But if you're asking me for the jets,

I take the tackle every day of the week. They've got to get better on the offensive line, and they've got to give Sam a chance. So to me, it would actually be the order I would have of those three players because in defensive tackle, they actually have some depth there as well. It would be Becton, then I would be looking at CeeDee Lamb, and then I would be looking at Derrick Brown. So depending on what they do in free agency,

that will have some influence there where maybe if they get a tackle that they really like at free agency, they could go CeeDee Lamb. With the depth of receivers in this draft, to me, I'd take the tackle. You're running the Raiders. At pick 12, they took Ruggs out of Bama at receiver. At pick 19, you've got Xavier McKinney out of Bama. You've got Chase on. And Judy is still there.

Now remember – well, go ahead. You give us your answer, and then I'll add you a little tidbit here after about the Raiders. I take Judy. I would double up. And I know I've just talked about the depth of this receiver class, but the value there and to be able to add him with rugs, now to me you've got a chance to have a dynamic, dynamic offense

to try and compete in a division with Mahomes. So, yeah, I would. I would double up on receiver. It sounds crazy with some of the other needs that they have. I just think he's just a much better player than the other options you mentioned. with some of the other needs that they have. I just think he's just a much better player than the other options you mentioned. Mayock and Gruden last year,

six players in the first five rounds from the SEC or Clemson. We're going to get ready for more. Yeah. Okay, the Pats at 23. Epinesa out of Iowa who I'll never forget the first time I watched him

I'm like wait a minute and they were like rotating him in and out let me see what else I want to do here let's say Justin Jefferson still there at 23 so you could go receiver or any white attack member from the Waterdogs in the lacrosse league.

I have a better grade on Justin Jefferson considerably. But if you were saying like who, to me, AJ Epinesa is going to be higher on the Patriots board based off how they would use him and know how to use him. Like to me, I think he's a really good player and I think his versatility to be able to rush inside is outstanding. And I think you can use him at end on some, on some base downs. I don't trust the entire league to know exactly what to do with this guy, but I've seen this exact type of player have tremendous success with the Patriots.

So I would probably go at Vanessa. Trying to do a little bit more research here on the premier lacrosse league. Dude, do you ever watch it? My son's playing for the first time this year and it's like, I'm going to games and I feel like I can now relate to the, to the fan that comes to the football, high school football games, who doesn't know anything about football. It is such a relaxing, enjoyable experience to not know what's going on. And just like, ah, that was kind of cool.

Whose ball is it, honey? I just went out of bounds. I don't know. I think it's our ball. I'm not sure. I'm with you. I watched England-Wales rugby on Saturday, and it was the best because I somewhat know what's going on. I don't 100% know what's going on. I know that I'm just simply watching it for competition and entertainment. I'm not dissecting it with a notepad, wondering what my observations are going to lead to, which opinions. I don't care about the outcome at all. I think some people still aren't sure what Wales is in comparison to England too, which is another little tidbit. Van Pelt and I, we did a segment on how many people actually know

what Wales is or where it is or how does the UK, Great Britain, England, how does that all fall into place? I think I forget at times, but I loved it. So I think it's the same thing with lacrosse. And just to tighten things up here, Will Manny, just be on the lookout for him, maybe in the sixth round from the premier lacrosse league. He's second in goals. By the way, bro, I'm Welsh. I am Welsh. So you know the map. No, I don't. I don't. I'm embarrassed to say. I feel like I need to get more in touch with my heritage that I feel now guilt that I have not done more homework on whales. I thought if I bought a Vineyard Vines t-shirt that I was covered, but apparently not.

No, no. Okay, we'll keep it going with DJ here, but we're going to get some awesome stories from his front office days, which are always my favorite. Like the time he talked about playing a quarterback one-on-one and he could tell that the guy kept going for his pump fakes. I think it was Kyle Bowler. I'm going to double check with him on that one. But first, Mack Weldon. I just got a pair. These are awesome boxers right now. That's what I

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I'm like, sorry. Mack Weldon's not going to do that to you. I'm going to go, okay, no problem. No problem. So, you know, how many relationships are you going to get into that are that easy to get out of? Not many. All right, let's do the best story stuff. Okay, give me a player.

You were in the war room. Pick whatever team. You know, it's always whatever the best story is. Um, a guy that you thought you were going to get, it was, it was your guy and he's getting it. Your pick is getting closer.

He's still there. He's still there. Then all of a sudden somebody else takes him before you. The maddest, the room has ever been. I think I told you this one last year, but the biggest one was Bob Sanders. Yes.

We talked about this. It was Bob. Cause Bob Sanders, we were in, we were in talks trying to trade up to get Bob Sanders. And, we talked about this. It was Bob, because Bob Sanders, we were in talks trying to trade up to get Bob Sanders, and we were talking with the Colts, and they said there's only one player they're sitting on, and we were both sitting on the same guy.

So when their pick came up, they told Ozzie that, hey, we're going to go ahead and stick and pick. And then Ozzie asked him who they were picking, and he told him, he said, yeah, that's who we wanted too. So that was like, that was like by far,, like the room, the air kind of came out of the room a little bit on that one. We were, we were definitely bummed on that one. We were the other one, I would say that I have to have to go back and look at some of the notes on it, but Ryan Khalil was starting to kind of drift a little bit and we had already

taken grubs in the first round of that draft. So we were, we were like, man, we talked about shoring up the interior of our of our offensive line um so we were trying to you know eric eric dacosta and ozzy were trying to move up and and try and targeting him or seeing how far he would fall and he got he started drifting get kind of close and then um and then carolina took him but the interesting thing on that one like this is the kind of close and then um and then carolina took him but the interesting thing on that one like this is the kind of stuff that i think i find hilarious because you know marshall yonda just retired and you know he's a guy that we loved in the room but this is how the draft works so we take ben grubbs in the first then um so then i guess we are next we had two picks in the third

and yonda's our highest i think he was our highest rated player at the time but we already had grubs and so we thought okay we got to get this returner thing figured out so we take a guy named yamon figures from uh from kansas state as a returner and there's a reason why you don't know who he is like he just totally flamed out of the league in a heartbeat i remember our second third run yeah our second third round pick comes up and yonda's still there like okay let's take Yanda. And so here Yanda's going to go to the Hall of Fame, one of the best guards we've seen over the last decade.

And we ended up taking Yaman figures over him. And he kind of just lucked out that he was still there when we picked again. That's amazing. Oh, Ryan, here's one for you. It's not really a draft room story, but I was just looking at this the other day because one of the things you do when you're interviewing these players is you'll always ask them, we'll ask them when they come to the combine, who's the best player you played against, right?

So you ask every corner that comes through, who's the best player you played against? And then if you have a big you know group of receivers it's interesting because sometimes the same names will come up over and over and over again um and you're like okay well man this guy must maybe we're a little low on this guy like these guys had a really tough time playing against them so this was uh gosh this is a 2004 draft so this draft this draft this draft that produced Larry Fitzgerald, right. With the Cardinals. Let's see.

Lee Evans was in there. You remember Michael Clayton? Yeah. Michael Jenkins, Devery Henderson. There was a bunch of receivers went in the first round. Reggie Williams. I think went to the Jags. Washington guy.

Yeah. Yeah. Reggie Williams. So we asked everybody and and anybody that played against this school this school said the exact same guy and uh and so it was funny going back and looking at it like this is why we don't trust players to evaluate everybody said rashaun woods from oklahoma they they raved about you would have thought rashaun woods was we couldn't get anybody to say the same type of things about larry fitzgerald but rasha about, you would have thought Rashawn Woods was, we couldn't get anybody to say the same type of things about Larry Fitzgerald,

but Rashawn Woods, you would have thought, was going straight to the Hall of Fame based on everybody that's played against him in college. It turns out he was just kind of a bully. He had all these contested catches. He couldn't separate from anybody, but he won a bunch of jump balls there. I think he ended up being a top 15 pick.

No, he went to the Niners? He was in the 20s, wasn't he? Okay, maybe it was the bottom of jump balls there. I think he ended up being like a top 15 pick. No, he went to the Niners. He was in the twenties, wasn't he? Okay. Maybe it was the bottom of the first round. Yeah. Let me look it up. I thought, I thought I remember it being in the twenties to the Niners. Oh, he's 31.

Yeah. So there you go. Okay. 31. Yeah. So, I mean, I just think like, it's funny when you look back at these, now this has been, you know, 15 years plus like larry fitzgerald still going you know hall of famer still playing at a high level and yet there was legitimate some legitimate

discussion with teams around the league and players that played against these guys like no i'd take rashaun woods give me rashaun woods over that dude um and rashaun woods i don't know what he's been doing for the last decade plus i mean so it's that's why the draft is it's pretty funny man how this thing can go. Yeah. This is a crazy, crazy wide receiver draft. Cause Larry was, you know, that was the kind of stuff where you went, okay, Larry's the real deal. He's that good. But I remember like talking about Robert gallery who went to behind Eli. So this is the Eli quarterback draft too, where gallery was thought to be like the cleanest dude ever. Like you just go, Oh, you know, he's going to come right in and play tackle. And I remember arguing with mel a little bit after the fact he was like well

no you ended up playing guard so you got value and you're like dude you take a left tackle too you're expecting you know um yeah i'm trying to think like orlando pace yeah yeah ogden basselli like that kind of stuff you're not you're, oh, cool, he still plays guard now four years later. And I don't remember exactly when he switched over. But Roy Williams, I thought would be a stud. I would say he was underwhelming. Not bad. He had a career, but it wasn't what you thought.

Reggie Williams went ninth. Lee Evans, who I actually think Lee Evans balled out there for a while. I loved Lee Evans, man. Yeah, me too. He was a big raid. Yeah. Clayton went 15th to Tampa. I'm just doing this again now because we're doing it.

Jenkins, Ohio State went 29th, and then Rashawn Woods went 31st, as we said. Yeah, I'm trying to find Devery there. He went to the Saints. He was the 50th overall pick. All right. Okay, there you go. You mentioned the interview stuff. Did you,

did they let you ask questions or were you never, I may be one of the stops. Like how often were you allowed to be a question asker in the room? We tried to limit it for the most part. I mean, I would say very seldom did you do that because we would have, um, you know,

one person in the room would be assigned to just get the background questions. And so we try and knock out the background questions as quick as we could get to the character stuff and then and then turn it over to the coaches and let the coaches have the time. So there was, you know, more to me, it was more like as they were walking in the room or as they were leaving the room to try and, you know, maybe get one little thing in there with them. But very rarely, unless I knew something character-wise that he was kind of glossing over, like, oh, it was no big deal. Nothing happened. And I might just say, whoa, dude, you got arrested. Like something happened, you know.

So that would be about the extent of it. I didn't have to do much of it. But I was going back through and kind of going through all these lists over the years and trying to look at guys that I, you know, that you sit in the interviewing room with and who is the best ones. See if you can guess this one. So I had, I wrote down that my two favorites that I've had in both of them are a long time ago. The two, my two favorite interviews. And one of them is, is somebody that you work with, but you have worked with.

Jonathan Vilma. No, Vilma was awesome. But Vilma, when he came to, uh, we had him come on a visit to Baltimore and he was so put off because he was like, dude,

you're not, you guys are not going to pick me. I'm going to be long gone by the time you guys pick. Um, but I did like Vilma. He was a good dude. Okay. I picked him up in my,

I picked him up in my, uh, in my accord where the window didn't even roll all the way down. I think that it was not the best impression, but yeah, but Vilma's Vilma's like a real dude, man. He's one of my all timers,

that guy. All right. So, all right. So I have, I've worked with them. Do you know how well we know each other or do you just know that we've worked together?

I don't know that. I don't know that. I just know that you've worked together. So he's one of your favorites. Um, is he older than me or younger than me? That's usually now the answer is always younger. So I would think he'd be younger. Yeah, probably. I would imagine. Yeah, if you were scouting him. But you know him.

You know him. You see him all the time. Work with him. But we know it's not Danny Connell. work with him. But we know it's not Danny Connell. Give me one more hint. Defensive side of the ball. Is Antonio Pierce now? He's probably too old for this.

All right. I give up. David Pollock. Oh, all right. Yeah, up David Pollack. Oh, all right. Yeah. That would've been good. Yeah. He's,

he's definitely younger than me, but I kept, I kept thinking too much younger. Uh, yeah. So why came in? He came in, he came in,

he came in to, uh, to visit Baltimore. And we, we, yeah, yeah, we just,

yeah, we, we, me and him just hit it off. And, uh, and he just had such high energy as everybody knows now. He's just a fatter version of himself, but he was such a,

he was such a good player and, and played so hard. And then he just was like, I've always, I just like being around guys on the defensive side of the ball. Haven't been around Ray, um, that, that just have tons of energy. And this, he just kind of lit up the room when he came in. We had a great time. And so we've literally, once his playing career ended, and we got right back in touch as he kind of went into broadcasting. And we've been good friends ever since.

So he's somebody that just hit it off with him right away. So he was one of the two that were the best, that I enjoyed the most. The other one was Lefwich. Lefwich is the best quarterback interview I've that I enjoyed the most. The other one was left, which left, which is the best quarterback interview I've ever done by far. Why? His, he knew the offense inside.

Now he had a total presence about him. Now look, his, his warts as a player were, you know, they were what they were, the long release and all that was, you know, it was a death sentence, but it was the, look, his warts as a player were, you know, they were what they were. The long release and all that was a death sentence. But it was like if you had told me of all the quarterbacks,

who do you think will end up being a coach or end up being a head coach in the NFL? He would literally be towards the top of my list because he had total presence, command. He knew his offense inside and out, and just his recall was outstanding. So there was a reason I was actually, I wasn't even working for the Ravens at the time. This is like why they were trying to, you know, like an audition basically. I interned for them at the Combine that year,

right out of college. And I sat in for those, I sat in for all their Combine interviews. And like, there's a reason why the Ravens were trying like crazy to trade up for him in that draft, which again, how history works. They don't get it, right? They can't get it done.

He goes to Jacksonville. The Ravens settle for Terrell Sugg. Wow. Worked out okay. Yeah. Yeah. I love the Pollock stuff because he is one of the guys that's unique. If you didn't know him, you may think like, oh, is this guy a jerk?

Every now and then, I'll be on the sideline with him for a game and he would get so animated that he wasn't really talking to anybody other than he was that emotionally upset about something that was happening and he would just like look at you if you were near him he just turned to me and be like offensive lineman nothing but a bunch of dirty dang cheaters i'm like what and he grabs because he doesn't swear and he grabs my shirt and he's like they're always watch he's like watch 71 he's like he's a dang cheater he's a day they dang they cheat every dang play and i was like oh my god to pollock's work relax and then um you know he also when when sugar would show up to the set he would lick it all so that he wouldn't eat it

um he would lick it to ruin it and you'd be like well maybe somebody else would just want to eat the cupcake david that you don't want to eat and he'd be like what what and he didn't and again if you didn't know him you'd be like what a jerk but you have to know him and then he also will have this thing where he'll ask you a question and he's just waiting for you to get it wrong and normally when guys do that to me i hate it and with pollock i just went all right why don't you instead of waiting for you to get it wrong. And normally when guys do that to me, I hate it. And with Pollock, I just went, all right, why don't you instead of waiting for my answer that apparently is going to be wrong,

just tell me what the answer is in your eyes. And it was about Tua. Because he was like, you know, what do you think of Tua's receivers? And I go, I think they're insane. And he's like, do you think that's why Tua's good? And I just am like, apparently that's not the only reason why you think he's good.

Just explain it to me. And Pollock, we were in the LSU weight room, and he was like, what are you doing today? Priscilla, are you doing legs? I was like, no, it's not leg day. And he's like, you know, no day can be legendary without leg day. And I went, okay. I go, but I did legs yesterday, and today I'm going to do chest. He's like, oh, today you're going to do chest.

I go, it's landing on this day, Pollock. I don't know what to tell you. And we're in the LSU weight room and like some of the other guys, Moffitt and those guys are off in the corner and we're laughing about it. And I know he's going to like peek over to see kind of what I'm doing, what numbers I'm getting. And he doesn't care. Like he's doing 20 pound dumbbells, but he's doing front squats with his foot on the bench in the back. And he's just going leg day, Rosillo, leg day, Rosillo. It's always leg day. It's every day's leg day.

And then he sat and he talked to me about how amazing Tua was the whole time. And those are the things. People will ask me, do you miss ESPN? Do you miss the radio show? I don't miss the radio show. I miss those moments. I miss being around those guys and being at some college campus. And then Pollock and I would end up at a Hampton.

It's in Texas A&M college station treadmill together and laughing about, you know, it's 10 o'clock at night on a Friday and we'd be going to the treadmill. And I usually wanted to get away from him because he was just such a psychopath. Um, but he's, he's, he's an awesome guy. I don't have a bad word to say about him. You know, I just wouldn't, As I get older, I want to find less reasons to have bad things to say about people that I know. That doesn't surprise me that you liked him that much.

No, he was awesome. Okay. I'm going to let you go here because I just feel like we've done a lot, but I feel like there's still so much. What do you think the overriding story right now as it sits is about this draft? Then I'll let you go. I think it's interesting that we're we're talked so much about this receiving core and it's you know it's the best one that i've seen in terms of the overall depth like all the way through but i think when the first round is over i think the storyline might be like holy

crud look at how many offensive tackles went in the first round. Like there's so many teams with, with young quarterbacks with terrible offensive lines and these decision makers, whether it's the coach or the GM know that, um, if they're not going to win enough games, they have to at least show that their young quarterback is progressing and things are moving forward to kind of keep their employment. So in order to do that, they've got to get better up front, which is why I think, you know, we might see four tackles go in the top 10. We could see, you know, potentially even like seven tackles go in the first round. Like that would not surprise me at all. That's the big storyline. At Move the Sticks, Daniel Jeremiah, NFL Network. I always appreciate the time, man. Thank you.

Thanks, bro. Bruce Feldman's next. He has awesome stories from the Combine, so let's get to those. But first, the Black Tux believes every groom deserves a better experience when it comes to finding formal wear, a suit, or a tuxedo for their big day. It was actually started by two guys who had one of the worst tuxedo fittings ever, you could imagine.

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just rumors that you're hearing from people after the combine. But before we get to that, just to kind of start in your area of expertise in college football, how is what we've seen now with the nba the ncaa tournament like how is that impacting some of the college football programs well it's moving fast obviously everywhere and college football is the sport that's probably furthest off the radar from on the calendar at least but which what's happened now is uh schools have had to cancel spring football and notre dame just as we're taping this Notre Dame, like five minutes before we started, um,

canceled all football activities for the, for the next while. And I think you're going to see more of that. And I think the next big thing that conferences have to sort out is the spring recruiting period. It's going to start up where coaches normally get on planes and go travel and go see high school players and do evaluations. And I can't see how that's going to happen.

Now, I talked to a Power Five head coach two days ago, which obviously seems like a long time in this news cycle now. But his point was that's going to have to get sorted out all at the conference level because the competitive advantage is differences. Maybe some other people want to still go out on the road, and who knows what the mindset will be, and other people can't. The conference is going to have to sort it out. One thing that I think is a distinction maybe worth just bringing up here is we see it whether it's it with whether it's the NBA or, you know, other leagues,

there's usually one person in charge. College football doesn't have that. So they're really dependent on their own conferences. And so it's really, you know, at this point, like I said, it's certainly trivial to a large degree, but it's also, you know, it's really messy or confusing, at least from that standpoint of who's going to handle it when they're going to do it. Because I think everything is just moving so fast and they don't even know who to look

to for leadership on it. Yeah, that's the thing, because any of us can sit here and talk about, well, you know, maybe they should do this. I like, we don't know. We have no idea. And I reached out to somebody in the NBA this morning and was like, do you have anything that is worth talking about as far as options or where this can go?

Just because if you're a voice, at least for me in the NBA, he just was like, look, we don't even, right now it's prevention, suspending play, and figuring it out, and many meetings to follow. I'm sure every governing body in any level of sports here is trying to figure these things out. Okay, so let's just do some of the combine stuff because I thought the piece was great. I think the one thing that's definitely happening here, Jalen Hurts, Bama, ends up at Oklahoma on the Heisman tractor for a while. They get blasted by LSU in the playoff, but Jalen put up big, big numbers. But I guess I feel like I've watched Jalen so much that I understand not only was it that Tua's

this incredible talent, but I think some of the frustrations with Jalen as a quarterback, one read, it's not his arm, it's some of the reads. And then in that system, putting up big numbers isn't exactly hard with Oklahoma. I guess I'm just a little surprised. It feels like some guys are falling in love with him in the interviews and his physical attributes, which are terrific, and not realizing some of the struggles that maybe they had with him at quarterback. Are you at all surprised that it seems like the NFL is falling in love with him? I guess falling in like with him would be probably stronger, maybe.

That's better. You know, because here's the challenge with him, and I don't think you can see this at a pro day where you're just throwing routes on air and whatnot. And this is from talking to several NFL scouts, both in the season and then talking to quarterback coaches after Indy. And this was stuff I got later in the season. My TV crew did three of Oklahoma's last four games down the season.

So we saw them at the later stages of the year. And what I heard was that there was still a lot of the same question marks that they had about Jalen in Tuscaloosa. They still had with Oklahoma. about Jalen in Tuscaloosa they still had with Oklahoma and what those question marks really are, are him not anticipating throws as well as they would like and holding onto the ball too long. They said when he throws it, he throws it pretty well,

but it's just holding onto the ball too long. And so I think those challenges, I think they're still there. It's not so that he can't overcome them and prove prove that he can do that when he gets to the NFL. I mean, people like his physicality. They love his his toughness. I mean, he's a son of a coach. And I think a lot of times you get that you get that vibe off him from being around him. He has a lot of presence to him and i think certainly the nfl has shown um with this you know new batch of quarterbacks that have come into the league if you can if you can make a lot of plays with your legs he's strong and he's tough um that can be a weapon so i think they're intrigued by him but i think there's also people are going to look and say um you know, he's not Lamar Jackson in terms of, he's not as dynamic as Lamar Jackson. I think that,

but whoever goes, whoever takes him, I think is going to have to figure out, okay, how are we going to, how are we going to continue to develop him and, and still be able to utilize the good things that he does, because you're going to be in the NFL.

It's a lot different than what he was, the defenses you were playing in the big 12. And you know he had CeeDee Lamb at Oklahoma when he was at Alabama he had those great receivers so I mean I think this is a little one I would pump the brakes a little bit on him I don't I mean I wouldn't say he doesn't have a chance to be a good NFL quarterback but I just I, I guess I'm a little surprised too, like you're saying, just from the, some of the things that, you know, I've heard from a lot of people inside football about their hesitations on him at this point. Yeah. Cause Glazer, you know, came out with a tweet, like raving about him. And I was like, Whoa, you know, here we go. Like sometimes this is how it happens. And I, I look at him and

he was offensive player of the year as a freshman for Alabama in 2016. His defense is a stop away from him winning a national title. So this is not, you know, if I'm Jalen Hurts, I'm thinking like I never should have been benched. And part of me loves the fact that even though Tua came in and saved the day against Georgia, that Jalen got to get back into the game later on when Tua was hurt. I'm like, this is unbelievable. Another example of sports, these redemption stories that bring us back every single week. But one thing I kind of feel like is overrated in the process is just some of the answering of questions. Now, granted, guys can be complete disasters and you'll know immediately. And we used to have that at ESPN

when we'd have the draft picks coming through the combine, not the combine, but it'd be like after the combine and we'd do the car wash with them. And most of them knew how to play the game. Some of us would be blown away by certain players. Again, the EJ Manuel one I'll use. He absolutely lit the place up all day long.

People were going- I agree with EJ. EJ is a likable, charming, he's a grown-up. He was a grown-up when he was probably 19 years old. I get it. I like dealing with him too. So I could see how you kind of, you want to like them because of that. Yeah. I mean, EJ was the guy that like stood out, you know, and plenty of guys really crushed it and were great. I mean, Bryce Petty was great. You know, Bryce Petty was unbelievable hanging out

to the day and all the different interviews. It doesn't mean anything. EJ, it didn't mean anything. I remember Daquan Bowers was at the other end of things where you were like is this guy know that we're on the air right now like what's going on and you know there's there's extremes but I think there's so many guys in the middle and with Jalen like he's very mature he carries himself a certain way but I've always felt like when a player like Oklahoma's lighting people up and he looked like he was about to cry because he missed some throws afterwards and I'm going I understand the coach thing and maybe it's an extension of Lincoln Riley where coaches can win by a hundred and feel like oh we we had two false starts on second down and you just go all right okay um Jalen definitely falls into that category of you know after throwing

for five and running for three more going I gotta get to get better, man. I got to get better. And I don't blame anybody for answering that way because I feel like the majority of the media and just fans eat that stuff up where a lot of times I'll be going, okay, you know, maybe, you know, maybe this is how he really feels, but geez. Well, I think, I don't think he's an extension really of Lincoln Riley. I think he was an extension of Nick Saban in terms of the things he would say and just, it's never good enough. And there was, you know, something that got, you know, got a lot of traction on social media. They, that they had a game, I'm sure they want it.

And then he posted something or somebody posted something of him going in the weight room, doing squats after the game or power clean the nap. I forgot what it was, but it just, you know, played to the never satisfied element. And I think the one thing, as you were saying that, and talking about the car wash, and I've been around Jalen quite a bit,

both through the Elite 11, and then, like I said, I did a bunch of his games, and I like him. I don't think of him as a kid the way I usually think of a lot of college guys as that. Having said that, so Jalen went to college.

He has a degree in uh in pr and he had uh you know we had talked a lot about his experience you know with one of one of the focuses was in crisis communications he's a very savvy guy and he's a coach's son he's also very savvy it's what he went to school for I think he is somebody who has observed the landscape of how the media works. I mean, I can't tell you, I must've had three different interviews with him this past year. Would there be something that he would kind of like throw out there? And you, you know, it was like, he wouldn't even answer it. He might not have answered the question. He would bring up something else and you're like, okay, where is this going? And I thought he was very smart.

So I could see how people could be enamored with that. Coupled with the way he handled a really tough situation in Alabama. I think that was admirable in the face of all the stuff with Tua. So I could see how that happens. Again, I go back to the question of you know do you feel like he holds on to the ball too long does he anticipate um you know there's quarterbacks who you know i don't i don't know what the comparison people are going to have for him is i mean one of the scouts i had talked to in the season his comparison was tasem hill

uh for him and saying, all right, he has definitely some skills. He's definitely tough. There's things we like about him. Just, there's some things that needed to be developed. And he thought this was like reminded of Taysom Hill. I don't know if that's, if that, if, you know, people still see it that way. Um, but he's, he's a, he's's a this is an interesting group of quarterbacks like i had the notes in there about jordan love jordan love to me is a is a very x x factor kind of wild card he could be a total boomer bust pick at quarterback and i think people are some people are falling in love with him too that's awesome insight it really is because i mean jalen handles himself that way and i didn't

know that was his major he handled the two a thing brilliantly for a kid that had the resume that he had at alabama i mean almost no one ever loses their starting job with that but that's just again a nod to how special tua is and i don't think alabama regrets making that change but um you know i just if i ran a team i okay, we all, we all really like that kid was really impressive. He's not a kid. He's so mature. And it's like, okay, well, let's throw on the tape and make sure that we know what we're

talking about here. And, you know, that's, that's just, you know, example, I think sometimes how, how teams can talk themselves into somebody. And it's like, no, are you, you know, I don't want to hear about leadership and personality before I hear about decision-making at the position. And I think teams have made mistakes. I think Tebow is another example of that. And I actually like the Taysom comp because I think Taysom Hill's become incredibly overrated in the NFL. I think it's fun. I think it's this awesome toy. But if you're telling me you've seen enough to know that he's going to be your starting quarterback, unless Sean Payton every week has him and has friends in the NFL. Granted,

it's not like he'd want to share a ton of information when we're thinking about him and the transaction and give him the tender, but I don't really know what Taysom is other than just a lot of fun right now. I don't know if that's a guy that's going to be your starter for 16 games. Can you follow up on the love stuff from Utah State? Because you're right. He is out of central casting. His throwing motion, he throws as pretty a ball, I think, as anybody in this group. But there's some pretty staggering numbers. I have them up in front of me from your piece. So if you don't know them off the top of your head.

But there's a big change when he had Matt Wells there versus when Matt Wells was not there this past year. Yeah, and that is true. Matt Wells is the guy. He's now the head coach of Texas Tech, but he was at Utah State. He found him. Nobody was in on Jordan Love when he was 6'2", 170 pounds,

coming out of the Bakersfield, California area. So Matt Wells bought in. He said he is, and I just have known Matt Wells for a long time. He was like, this kid is super smart. He has a great feel for it. He said he's not quote unquote, the dual threat guy. He's not going to run four, four, but he's physically grown a lot since they recruited him.

Now he's every bit of six, three plus, and he's 220 pounds. And he moves pretty good. But he had like a six-1 TD to interception ratio in 2018. Matt Welling used to go to Texas Tech. They had a new coach, Gary Anderson. He brings in Mike Sanford

Jr. to run the offense. It really, I don't want to say completely fell apart, but he basically was like a 1-1 TD to interception ratio. He's really struggled against good competition. As you said, and this is the book I got from a lot of people in Indy, was he throws, you know, motion is beautiful. And there's some really good stuff there,

but there's also some really disturbing stuff in terms of what you see in terms of the inconsistency, the decision making. I was told he didn't interview that great, at least with some of the teams I talked to. So there's a little pause on that. And so the spring ahead on this is, and you could say this one thing just to a large degree about all the quarterbacks, including Joe Burrow even, is whatever system they go into is going to have a big role into how successful they are or aren't now you know certain guys if you're aaron rogers you're super talented enough you're going

to thrive wherever you are some other guys it's going to be really dicey and my read on it is jordan love probably more than any other talented quarterback in this draft, it's really crucial what kind of support he goes into. If he goes into a really shaky situation, meaning that they take him with a first-round pick, they could be really disappointed. If he goes into a great situation, I'm not saying Andy Reid's going to bring him in just like he has Pat Mahomes, certainly, or anything like that. But if there's somebody else who is interested in developing,

I mean, you know, I'm not saying the Saints are going to get him, but if it was somebody like that who has a real great feel for quarterbacks and working with them and fitting things around them and in a situation where they can learn and develop, I think that would be a great thing for him. If it's the other way, it could be really dreadful. And people I talked to thought he should have come back, not because he probably has enough talent, physical talent for people to roll the dice and say, he's going to be a first-round pick.

He might even be a top 20 pick. But they thought that he would have been better served to come back another year now. Who knows? Maybe he would have been better served to come back another year now who knows maybe he would have been better served to be a grad transfer and go someplace else and do a different system have another year of good film and then and and and reps and then go to the nfl and in the long run it would have played for him better but you know he's in the draft and i'm interested to see what happens with him is there a player that that NFL scouts ask you about the most? Is there anyone specific you're like, yeah, you know who's always being asked about is this guy? I mean, I'm sure there's some obvious suspects of the very top guys, but is there anybody else that sort of stands out while you were talking to guys at the combine?

I mean, the guy who first came up the most was Ashton Davis, because I had done a big story on him. He's a former walk-on from basically the middle of nowhere in California, went to Cal as a walk-on track athlete and was an All-American hurdler and blossomed into a guy who probably will be a second round pick. And so when I would go to games, I would have, I can't tell you, it happened pretty much every week. I would see an NFL scout who would come up and introduce themselves and say, Hey, I really appreciated the Ashton Davis story. We were trying to, you know, people wanted to know a lot more about him. He was kind of this mystery man.

So that was one, that was a big one. I've heard from some people just because I think they know I was around LSU the last month of the season. some people just because I think they know I was around LSU the last month of the season. So I would hear a decent amount about Patrick Queen or get asked about what people think about Justin Jefferson, who's ran really well in Indy and was just this guy who kind of went from two star, who a lot of people at LSU thought was a walk-on when he showed up, into a guy who played like a five star and probably will be a first-round pick and, and just ate up a lot of people in this offense.

And so I think one of the things sometimes they're trying to get a read on as much as anything is what are these guys really think about them? Or, you know, what, what did you, what were they around? Like, you know, I'd be at games where there's other scouts, and they know that we're in meetings that are around them. It's not like they're going to make a decision based on anything I say, certainly, but I think they're always looking for just any added intel. So you're observing a kid, especially when it comes to quarterbacks,

and seeing how this kid handles his team. What do you like on the bench? I mean, sometimes that doesn't show up on the broadcast, and they can certainly get that from a strength coach, or maybe they can get it from somebody on the staff. But a lot of times it's easier to get it from somebody who may have been on the sidelines and observed it and was around it enough. And I think there's definitely some guys where you're like, all right, let's pump the brakes a little bit on that guy of how, cause you see them in the moment, you see how

they handle, handle people, you know? So, I mean, two years ago, I could tell you how much confidence the team had in Baker Mayfield. Cause you could feel it when you were down on the sideline and you could, there were certain guys like that. And just, you know, you knew, I mean, even, and this is an easy one to look back at, but like Deshaun just, you know, you knew, I mean, even, and this is an easy one to look back at, but like Deshaun Watson, you know, anybody who was ever around him could tell you that there was something different about him than there was about most other quarterbacks who were

around. It was just, um, it was just some, it was almost like a glow. And I think you didn't have to be a sideline reporter to see that. I mean, you could,

you didn't have to, you didn't have to be around him at like over the that. I mean, you didn't have to be around him at like over the 11th and stuff. I think almost anybody could have picked up on that one. I know one name that we thought could potentially be a top 10 pick, Jake Fromm out of Georgia. What's happened with him? I think that to me, this is an example, a little like Matt Barkley was, whatever it was, five, six years ago. It was a very familiar name played in a lot of big games also kind of like what you were talking about about ej manual and uh bryce petty where it was a guy who was very personable likable polished so you get around him and you'd be you know you'd want to like him and uh the words i had heard about him from people around the georgia program

even for the last two years was he is not first pick in the draft talent-wise. He just doesn't have that. He's a solid college quarterback. They thought he was more like Aaron Murray, but less athletic. And so when I had talked to quarterback coaches and NFL people after the quarterbacks threw, I said, who hurt themselves the most, you think? And the answer I got back was, was,

uh, Jake from, and I think, and it surprised me that some people were surprised, like I said, that the expectation would be high because he doesn't have, he doesn't have the arm of, of certainly Jordan love.

He doesn't have the arm of a lot of those guys. He ran five, one or five Oh one or something that wasn't great. And so you1 or something that wasn't great and so you don't need to certainly Tom Brady has showed you don't need to be a Peyton Manning you don't need to be a real you know fast in the 40 to succeed as a quarterback but I don't think they looked at anything and said okay here's an attribute that we feel like he is he is terrific and he helped himself in the interviews I think that they expected, you know, that he's, he's intelligent and sharp.

It's just like at the end of the day when the ball is snapped and you're around all these, you know, super freak athletes, you're going to have to make some plays. And I don't know if people came away with the confidence to say, this guy can be a starter. I had asked somebody who's in the NFL. I said, could he be Kirk Cousins? And this person was like, no, Kirk Cousins is a better athlete. Kirk Cousins has a better arm.

Character-wise, he could be that. But, you know, that was the, I was like, could he at least be that? And look, Kirk Cousins turned out a lot better than probably people, anybody would have thought when he was coming out of Michigan State. But, you know, it's like for the people who go, okay, there's nothing wow about somebody. They're like, oh, Andy Dalton's dark. Well, Andy Dalton's a better athlete than a lot of these guys that, you know,

sometimes we throw out when we're like, well, there's not a great arm, and he's just kind of a quote-unquote game manager in college. But I think that probably undersells how good of an athlete some of these guys are beyond just what they may run a 40 in. And again, when I brought up the Kirk Cousins comparison to at least this one coach, he was like, he's not Kirk Cousins. I don't think physically. And that's the part where it was like, okay, let's, uh, you know, I'm, I'm guessing he'll

probably be a late second round pick or a third round pick just because people like him and he'll probably be in the quarterback room for a while. And they think that you could probably get him out of a game down the road if the starter gets hurt. But I don't know if it's going to be a lot more than that. Let's talk about Beckton, the tackle from Louisville. He has insane measurements. Did he make your freaks list? He did. So he is, he is every bit of six, seven, three. Now he's three 64. He was three 89. Now he didn't make it. He made it coming out of, uh, no, I'm sorry. He didn't make it going into that, into the freak list because in the off season he was like almost

390 pounds and he was a mess right he was a mess yeah like so i did a story on on the athletic about him out of the combine and i taught i know they this this louisville staff pretty well and their strength coach had told me when we got there he had just come off of like basically a month and a half of, of being on vacation, like the rest of the team. And he reported back, he was close to 400 pounds. He couldn't even get through a warmup, much less a workout. So it took them a while to get him in shape and he continued to get in shape. But they said by the beginning of the year, they knew was a special special player but it was just he

had to keep working on his body and to his credit um he did all the things both you know diet wise especially and also the workout part and for him to run 510 at almost at 365 pounds uh with like 17% body fat is pretty remarkable. And, you know, it's like, I think he is a credit to the new Scott Satterfield, the guy who came from Appalachian State, and he had replaced Bobby Petrino. When Bobby Petrino left that place, it was gutted. It was gutted in terms of the kids were miserable. Nobody wanted to work. They hated football.

I mean, those are all generalizations, but those are all from having come through Louisville and talked to people there. They talked about just kind of how that was. Scott Satterfield went in there with his new staff, and he basically just turned everything upside down down did a 180 on the program kids bought in and mckay beckton is the best example of that he certainly has a lot of talent to work with but just in terms of being a guy who probably would have been a free agent who nobody thought

could care enough and now all of a sudden he's going to be maybe a top five pick top 10 pick because his physical tools are are eye-popping yeah it feels like he's going to be maybe a top five pick, top ten pick because his physical tools are eye-popping. Yeah, it feels like he's going to be the first tackle off the board right now. And if you're moving like that at 6'7", 360, I mean Fluker to me was one of the most impressive physical people I've ever seen on a sideline, DJ Fluker, when he was at Alabama. And the more I watch, I'm like, you know what? This guy's not nearly as dominating as you think he would be.abama and the more i watch i'm like you know what this guy's not nearly as dominating as you have the same athlete as this guy though no i mean but it was just one

of those things where you're like it rarely are you on the sideline of alabama lsu where you see one guy that looks just like in a different category of everybody else um but i mean oakum was that guy at baylor and he was totally, he was a fraud. I mean, he just, he just was. And I'll never forget being at a Baylor game on the sideline. And I go, I know he's the meme and all that stuff. I go, when I watch him, as soon as he's blocked, he just stops playing. And they were like, he's, he's terrible.

And then Fluker wasn't. Sean Oakham probably would have been good for the WWE in terms of where he so passes the eyeball test. And that's, I'm not saying that's 90% of it, but in football, it's like, that's great for a minute. And then you got to be able to play. And, you know, I think the NFL people can sort that out better than certainly I can on my free-fliss kind of stuff like that. Yeah, the free-fliss is great. But yeah, I just think if people think he can play on top of that, but I mean,

Fluker, I think went what? 10th to San Diego. So, um, I'm just, it's just one of those things sometimes when these guys are that big alone, it's like,

yeah, they're just going to go on the top 10 because of bodies and the way, and the way this works sometimes. Um, somebody will get them right. Yeah. Uh, I know it always bothers me.

Um, when I can't remember where a guy was drafted. So this is going to be annoying. Cause I'm going to look it up. Yeah, he was 11th. He was 11th, so there you go. A couple more things here before I let you go. Clyde Edwards-Alaire, I knew he was going to run slow. What did he run on the 4-6? Yeah, 4-6-0. 4-6-0. That's not even remotely surprising when I'd ask. And like you said, you were around these LSU guys there. But I still have teams that think he's the best running back. And it's kind of hard to argue with them because he has that make-miss at the line of scrimmage.

It was better than any running back I saw. And maybe there's a lower-level guy that wasn't on my radar nearly as much because I didn't go to their games. But then you factor in that he can line up the way they used him. He was their guy, and yet they still put up some crazy numbers when he was missing towards the end. But the way you can use him, especially with the way coaches are implementing game plans, I've got to imagine some teams really love the total combination and his time. First, it wasn't surprising, but his time isn't going to knock him

the way it may have knocked another running back. Yeah, absolutely not. And look, so I have a good little story about him. It's the week going into the SEC title game. And so I'm there for the week and I'm basically picking my spots where, okay, I'm going to be with the linebackers this day and O-line this meeting or whatever. So I sit in the running backs room and uh kevin flock who is now the running backs coach but was a personnel guy there and obviously the old terrific patriots running back and along you know lsu star he's in the back of the room and kevin and i are the first ones there and kevin and sweet i don't know i started asking about clyde and we're just talking about it. And he goes, you know, I told some of my friends this before the year. I was like, you know, he reminded a little of Barry Sanders.

And I was like, that's a big statement. I, you know, it's like, he goes, he's got some of that in terms of the make you miss capability. He's obviously shorter running back. And so as I'm in the meeting, you know, this is going on in Tommy Robinson who was the running back coach at the time is, you know, he's talking and they're looking at different stuff.

Maybe there's one kid who looks like he's nodding off, and then there's another kid who's asking questions. I look over, and Clyde's next to me. He is taking a full page of notes in this meeting where I'm not sure one other guy has written down more than a sentence. guy has written down more than a sentence. And, you know, that kind of, you look at him and he, you know, he's got the thick beard. He, you know, he comes across as a grown man in there and how he approached it. And I know what that staff thought about him in terms of, we can trust Clyde. We know Clyde is a really good team guy. And I think I would not at all be surprised if NFL teams heard about Clyde in the more

glowing fashion than pretty much any running back that has come through there in a while, not just in terms of his physical ability, but his approach, his accountability, all that stuff. I think as a team guy, I think he really won over a lot of people. I think as a team guy, I think he really won over a lot of people. Kevin Falk had a story about how supportive that Clyde was the year before when it was basically going to supposedly be, hey, who's going to replace Darius Geist? And they had Nick Brossette, who had been a decent-sized recruit for them,

but really hadn't done anything yet. And then there was Clyde. And he said, and this is from Kevin Foxworth, it's not from Clyde, but he was like, he was so deferential and supportive of Nick Brossette and wanted Nick Brossette to get the spotlight. And I had not heard that. I had not read that anywhere. And I just thought, you know, and obviously Kevin Fox connected in NFL circles. I suspect a lot of people in the NFL know a lot of that stuff about Clyde, certainly from

Kevin Falk, but probably from other people around LSU. And that's why it's not guaranteed that he's certainly not saying he's going to be very standard, but I would be surprised if Clyde's not a really good NFL pro for a long time, as long as he's healthy. Okay, final thought here, which actually could be the headline of this whole thing, and that is Trevor Lawrence versus Justin Fields, the number one pick in 2021. Now, it would seem impossible to suggest that anybody was going to overtake Lawrence, and I think this is important not to emphasize to you because you already know this, but to everybody listening, is that teams will tell you we haven't done the work. If a guy's not in the 2020 class, we haven't done the amount of scouting. Yes, we've watched him.

Yes, I have an opinion on him, but there's still a lot of work to do. It surprised me though, that it would even be suggested, I guess, in NFL circles that Fields could surpass Lawrence. So what's the story? Yeah, I think there's a chance. Now, look, this was something somebody told me, a quarterback's guy had told me at the combine when we talked about, he had seen a lot of, it was very intrigued by Justin Fields and made the point that Justin Fields his arm is a lot better than I think, than he thinks the perception of him out there is. And I don't think that was as much of a reflection on Trevor Lawrence per se, but it was like, here's this guy who's a, he's a big athlete.

Every bit of six,3", 230 pounds. He runs well. And then the other, when I started kind of like pushing back on this was, you know, bringing up the point of like, you know, this is, Trevor Lawrence showed really good wheels against Ohio State. I think that's, that definitely opened some people's eyes. Because like you said, they haven't done a full-blown evaluation. Obviously, people in the mock draft world have dug deep into them. But I don't know. It's like it's not been on the front burner because there was no reason for it to be on the front burner for them

other than watching the games itself. So when I had asked him, and then we started talking about this, it was like, okay, Ohio State is going to have a loaded group of receivers that are coming in now because they have a great freshman class, already some talented guys there. It's Ryan Day's system. They're going to probably have a question mark at running back now. There's no J.K. Dobbins.

If Justin Fields puts up some ridiculous numbers, because we've seen in years past, like whether it's, if you look at it this year, it'll probably be Joe Burrow. The year before it was Kyler Murray. The year before that was Baker Mayfield. Nobody thought any of those guys

were going to be first pick in the draft a year out. So it always feels like whatever is kind of, somebody comes off the radar. And obviously Justin Fields is included off the radar. But, um, and so I started kicking or kicking the tires on that idea. And I don't know, I probably talked to six other guys after the initial conversation.

And basically it was like, would I like, how shocked would you be? And there was a couple of people who really were like, I don't see it. There was some people who are like, not huge fans of Justin Fields from a little bit they saw of him in terms of, um, I don't know if they were just that comfortable either. There was a little bit of a little bit of a bad taste on, on him for one

of the people. But for the most part, it was like, you know what, there's a lot can happen between now and next spring. And I think that's the thing where, you know, if you said that, who would I, if I was putting money down, who would be the guy I would think would be the first pick in the draft? I would still say it'd be Trevor Lawrence. I would think it'd be probably a, you know, a pretty strong, you know, even money pick. Whereas anybody else, I would think it'd probably be three to one or something if you put the field down, but it wouldn't shock me at this point because of his physical tools. And because of the fact that usually as we've seen in now,

there's somebody else who comes up and has a huge year and people fall in love with them. And that's ends up being the guy. Now we didn't know tool was going to get hurt. If two is healthy, is he going to be the first pick instead of Joe Burrow? I don't know. But so, you know, there's always factors to this, if Tua's healthy, is he going to be the first pick instead of Joe Burrow? I don't know. There's always factors to this, but I don't think it's a slam dunk the way a lot of people have made it out to be a slam dunk that Trevor's going to be the first guy to go.

You can read all of Bruce's stuff in The Athletic, and I'm telling you right now, and I know how people can get about the paywall stuff, but trust me on this. If you like college football, I don't know how you get by the year without reading Bruce and so many of the other great college football writers that they have.

And of course, seeing him on Saturdays with Fox Sports. Hey, Bruce, always a pleasure. Stay safe, man. Thanks. You too. Thanks, Ryan. Okay, so Bill and I will be doing our podcast on Sunday. Hopefully, we'll have more information as it regards to the NBA part of it.

And that's probably how I'm going to play this out until any of us know more. But whatever I think I know now, I'm sure by Sunday, it will be completely different. And so Bill and I, we've talked about this. We're going to keep doing it unless something changes. I don't know. So as of Thursday right now, Bill and I will be back on for a Sunday night release. And I'm going to be working from home like a lot of you out there. So I'm going to keep the podcast coming up. So please rate, review, subscribe. I'm just saying that, do that, whatever. So we're going to be here for you in a time where everybody's trying to figure things out,

and we're going to talk sports. So cool. Stay safe. Outro Music