The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NFL Playoff Draft With Kevin Clark; Plus Wild-Card Weekend With Andy Benoit | Dual Threat With Ryen Russillo (Ep. 18)

Episode Date: January 4, 2019

Ryen Russillo is joined by Kevin Clark of 'The Ringer NFL Show' to draft the 12 NFL playoff teams and discuss the NFL salary cap, Antonio Brown, and more (3:18). Then, Russillo calls up SI's Andy Benoit to talk wild-card weekend (33:05). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Happy New Year to everybody and welcome in to Dual Threat. Apologies for last week. You want to know why? Because we didn't really know what the studio situation was going to be. I ended up getting on a couple planes. Well, look, we're here. We're ready to go. We're busy guys. We're going to make up for it. couple planes. Well, look, we're here. We're ready to go. We're busy guys. We're going to make up for it. Let's talk about Belvedere. Everybody loves when I talk about it, okay? Because they are produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka. Part of a 600-year Polish vodka-making tradition, Belvedere is made with non-GMO Polish rye, pure water, and no additives. Recognized for quality, Belvedere was named the ISC World Vodka Producer of the Year in 2015, 2016, and 2017. That reminds me of a story about Belvedere one night. I remember bartending, and the, I'm not going to say which team,

although I think I've sort of said this before. There was a pro hockey team that used to work out at Vermont before their season started, which was really weird. I always thought it was kind of weird to be like, hey, let's bring a bunch of pro athletes to a college town and just you guys can skate for a week or so and rage every single night and see what happens. But, you know, things are a little more advanced now. But back in the day, if you were a college student, you were a co-ed at UVM.

Like, I don't know. I don't know that you were hanging out with adults anytime soon. So I'm bartending, and one dude was an enforcer, a notorious enforcer. And the other guy was one of the great scorers in the history of the game, not Wainer, okay? And the guy that was the scorer, I was like, hey, do you want a Belvedere or something? And he'd be like, no. And, you know, he had an accent. And then the other guy was like, I want a Belvedere. And so he had one, made him a nice Belvedere and soda, because, you know, when you're a little bit older, you had soda instead of tonic water.

And the guy just the guy that scored goals just stood there in the waitress station the whole time. the guy just the guy that scored goals just stood there in the waitress station the whole time and if anybody understands how it works the bar like maybe you're somebody who's just realizing how come i'm always in the way at the open spot and well it's because you're sitting in the service area and those brass bands around the bar like you're not supposed to stand in there or where the mats are and all the stuff and there always seems to be an open area that's because you're not supposed to stand there that's why it's always open. Moron. And there's one guy listening. I shouldn't say moron because if you don't know, you don't know.

But there's one guy listening right now that's going, oh, my God, that's why that area is always there. And that's why the cocktail waitresses hate me everywhere I go. But these guys are NHLers. So what am I going to do? Tell them to get out of the waitress station? And it was always manageable. And honestly, dude, when I went in there, that's where I stood to order a drink. But again, I was working there five nights a week, so back off.

So the guy proceeded to then take a cigarette out because it's the back you smoke then. And I can't even imagine the secondhand smoke that I inhaled working there as much as I did. And his missing tooth, he had a big missing front tooth, and he took just a dart, and he stuck it up in there. And that's how he smoked a cigarette, and he checked out every single waitress that we had working. And that's what he did. And then his friend had a Belvedere. So enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today, and remember to always drink responsibly. I am excited to have Kevin with us here because we're going to do a couple different things.

We're going to talk a little bit about free agency. Well, that's not really free agency. We're going to talk finances a little bit because you have a piece up on the ringer. Why are you laughing already? Finances is a very funny way to phrase it. Yeah, finances. But that's what it is at the end of the day. That's what it is.

How much you pay your superstars. It's the question in 2018. Because you had a piece that came out, and I was really looking forward to it, and then I read it, and I said, you know, I actually want to talk to him about this. We're also going to have Andy Benoit on from Sports Illustrated a little bit later. Kevin, sorry that he's not going to be on at the same time because I just don't want to do that to everybody and just mash everybody up.

And then maybe I'll do a little college football at the end. But we still have a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff to make up for you guys for not having a pod out last week. So let's get right to it. A little music. Awesome. I want to do a playoff draft. Now, the reason I'm bringing this back is Van Pelt and I used to do this on the radio show all the time, where right before postseason started, even baseball, even baseball back in the day,

we would do that and we'd have drafts. We go back and forth of how many teams can you pick that ended up going further on. And then ultimately you try to get the winner of the whole thing. And the beauty of that segment was, is even though Scott and I, for the six years we did the radio show, we did it almost every postseason, NCAA tournament even, the staff would never keep track of what we did. Ever. I'm telling you. And, you know, some, they may even hear this and they'll say it's not true.

It's 100% true. It used to drive me crazy. And then I'd start being mean about it on purpose to see if it would maybe motivate them. The Bobby Knight style. Like, let me get in your head a little bit and be like, hey, let's do this segment and let's make sure everyone forgets again so we can never have any value and the payoff to it.

And then they still didn't do it. So that my motivation tactics for that didn't work. It's like bad coaching for me. It was bad coaching. To me, I always felt like if somebody yelled at me and I knew that ultimately I did something wrong, then I would come back stronger. But that's the kind of coaching I need. I need in-your-face, not kid gloves.

I need to be told I'm terrible. I need to be almost insulted. My manhood questions challenged, and then you get the best version of me. The younger generation is different. It is. It is. Okay, so we're going to flip a credit card here. Do you want heads, the American Express side, or? Let's do the heads.

Okay. And it is heads. Yes. Oh, this is huge. And it's never a snake draft for fantasy people out there that think every single draft should always be a snake. When it's two people and we're just going teams, it doesn't need to be a snake draft for Christ's sake.

Sorry to get... I don't know where you are religiously. Maybe I offended you. I apologize. You're like, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to do the financial part. All right. With the first selection in the playoff draft, I take the. I apologize. You're like, I'm not doing this. I'm not going to do the financial part. All right. With the first selection in the playoff draft, I take the New Orleans Saints.

It's really a no-brainer, right? I mean, at home. At home with the best defense in the NFL since week 10. Drew Brees has not been Drew Brees maybe the past month, but he's still Drew Brees. Yeah, I don't think you can do that with Drew Brees. When you've been around, I don't know, you have the with Drew Brees. I totally agree. I don't know. You have the most passing yards ever, and you're going to be a Hall of Famer. To have a slow close to the season.

Fine. If it were Jared Goff, now maybe we're talking about something. Okay? All right. So that was the obvious. That was kind of like the Shaq and the draft pick, I feel like. Do I go chalk? Do I try to get in your head a little bit?

How could you get in my head here? I'm pretty unflappable in this scenario. Wow. In this scenario. I've got my big board in my head right now. Okay. I'm going to go Kansas City. And, you know, what I do think is,

we'll get to this maybe with some of the other picks, but Mahomes not playing in the playoffs before. Some of these younger guys I'm just not worried about. and you know what I do think is we'll get to this maybe with some of the other picks but Mahomes not playing in the playoffs before I'm just some of these younger guys I'm just not worried about it I'm not and he's one so I'm gonna go with the other number one seed even though you know look AFC definitely deeper now

to close the season than we thought they would be at the beginning of the year so I'm gonna get in your head and take the New England Patriots okay would you have taken the Patriots second no would you have taken the Chiefs I am a to get in your head and take the New England Patriots. Okay. Would you have taken the Patriots second? No. Would you have taken the Chiefs? I would have taken the Chiefs. I am a firm believer in home field advantage.

There's a reason that nobody, no Super Bowl participant since 2012 has played on the road. I know. What is it? Giants, right? The Giants had that run. Steelers had one of those runs. Well, it was the Flacco-Kaepernick year.

They both did it. Oh, okay. So the Giants before them. And the Packers. And the Packers. And the Steelers had one of those runs. What was the Flacco-Kaepernick year? They both did it. Oh, okay. So the Giants before them, Eli, and the Packers. And the Steelers. Steelers have one in there. Okay. All right. I have a team that's still higher up on my board than who's been selected,

believe it or not. Not the number one overall, obviously. But I'm going to go Chargers. So here's the thing. Oh, wow. I can't going to go Chargers. So here's the thing. Oh, wow. I can't tell how to read you now. Here's the thing. I was worried that you were going to pick my baby, my sleeper.

But you didn't. So now you're even less worried. I'm even less worried. And I'm going to do chalk because I like value. And then I'll hope my sleeper slides down. Because that's the whole key to the draft, is you don't take the second-round sleeper in the first. You don't do that.

You don't panic. I may have gone too far. You don't panic. I'm going to take the Los Angeles Rams. Okay. So can we do the are we worried about golf thing? Yeah, let's do it. I'm super worried about them.

So worried you just took them. Well, I mean, I think there's still a lot of value in just the infrastructure of the Los Angeles Rams and, you know, the coaching staff and a healthy Todd Gurley or apparently C.J. Anderson, who is doing better against opponents that Todd Gurley did not do well against. So I can be worried about him and still believe he can win a playoff game. I just, I, it was, some of those games were head scratching. The Bears thing is explainable. The Eagles thing is not.

Okay. Now we've just, however you did your depth chart, I can share this with you now. You hit on my top five. You hit on my top five. This is where I think it gets real wild. Okay.

Speaking of wild card weekend. Now that I have, I could stick to my char or I could do something. Oh, yeah. No, I went over it this morning. A lot of preparation here. I'm going to go with a team that I may even have behind some other teams just because I'm trying to read you now. And maybe you don't have a sleeper and you're trying to get in my head. Oh, I've got a sleeper.

I'm going to go with the Bears here. And I don't feel like that's chalk. I agree with that. Here's the thing. Is there some game theory going on in my head right now that I'll explain later? Oh, I can't. I'm going to take the Seattle Seahawks. On the road, breaking one of my

true core tenets, which is I love home teams, but I just really like the Seahawks. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong there. I had them lower. Not a huge surprise, I'm sure. I think they're basically as confident

I'm really confident they're going to beat the Cowboys. I think they've got the quarterback advantage, the coach advantage. I think they probably have the roster advantage. The only thing I think is if it gets close, there could be some calls to go the Cowboys way, which we saw the last time I was at a playoff game at Jerry World was that Lions-Cowboys game where the Lions basically got hosed. It happens.

Yeah, there's more going on here than just, I like this team, I like that team. You're thinking about the path, and that's why we have you on, Kevin. So I'm excited about that. Okay, I'm going to go with the Colts. Colts defense, old radio joke. We had a tour guide. We used to have these tours at ESPN that would go on.

We still have them. And it was really fascinating because not all of them, but there was a good chunk of the tour guides that were as misinformed as the people on the tour. And one guy came by and was like, you know, the Dan Patrick show is out of this studio, and then the Tony Kornheiser studio is over here, and Gottlieb comes running.

I mean, this is how long it was that Gottlieb was still there, but yet this guy was so behind in his information. And Gottlieb just comes out. He's like, hey, dude, what are you doing? Right in front of the entire tour. And he's like, oh, and, you know, the Doug Gottlieb show. And he's like, Dan Patrick hasn't been here in years. He's like, and Kornheiser Cowherd replaced him in, like, 2005.

Like, what are you, nuts? Yeah, and he's just like, oh, well, you know, he goes, this is a great thing. And the tour guide was terrific playing it off. He goes, that's a great thing, how interactive the whole department is. There's all sorts of stuff going on. We're learning together. And the tour itself is looking at the guide being like, are you just lying to us this entire time?

And over here is, you know, where I'm just even trying to like make up something. So then there was another tour going on where I was walking behind the tour and the guide goes, you know, in here, the radio producers are behind the glass there. And then the people on the air over there, they're telling, because really the producers are in charge of everything. And I'm like, what? He's like, the producers, because the producers will, you know,

if the guy's saying something and it's just not good anymore and they want him to get out of the segment, they'll have, like, code words, right? They'll have code words. And, you know, the guy will get in his ear and the producer will say to, like, the guy in the air, he'll be like, Colts defense, Colts defense. And that'll mean, like, change up what you're talking about. And I was like, what? What?

So then I immediately came and told the story on the air. Yeah. So there's always a Colts defense joke for the people that used to really love any of the radio stuff I used to do back in the day. So the producers started doing it, but they do it on the air. We have to get Kyle. Should we make a playbook? Kyle, let's start giving you ringer tours. Kill, kill, kill.

Yeah. Could you imagine the ringer tour? The ringer tour. The ringer tour? Over here. Over here. Okay. This is Chris Ryan's office. He's a huge Terry Catledge fan. All right, so Colts.

Colts defense. There you go. Colts defense has improved this year. That's one of the sneaky little things about Andrew Luck. Is he back? You know what's nice? Having an O-line and a competent defense. Still some teams on the board. That was a really long segue.

I am a firm, firm believer in the Baltimore Ravens. They are my sleeper. I think their defense is really good. It is. I think they're a matchup problem. I think the thing I keep coming back to, and I've said, I said it on Bill's show yesterday, but what I'm obsessed with is the Chargers are capable and built for stopping modern defenses.

So the best thing to do is throw an offense at them that is in no way modern. And that's the Baltimore Ravens. I think it's a matchup nightmare for them. I'm going to take the Baltimore Ravens. And I knew, by the way, once I took the Chargers, I didn't have to take my sleeper because you're not going to take two opposite. Unless I loved them. Unless you loved them. I absolutely loved them. Well, that's all right. Because I feel like

the only pick I think I could have gone Rams, then Chargers. Maybe I've been able to pull that off, but you weren't going to take Baltimore. Maybe you would have. Would you have taken them third had I not taken the Chargers second? That seems high. It's possible.

It's possible. Okay. That's all right. I don't want to go back and reveal my strategy. Okay. All right, because we could do this next year. We could do this next year. I don't want you to know my thought process that means there's three teams left houston philly and dallas

it seems so disrespectful to not take houston yet although the same could be said about philadelphia do i do the so i know what's going to happen here you know let me not overthink this i'm just going to go ahead and take Houston, even though I just took the Colts. I didn't think you were going... Because I knew. Yeah, it's a problem. I got you to actually give me a little bit more.

It's like Connect Four. I backed you into a corner, and I was hoping you would just take the bait. Okay. So the only team left is... I'm sorry. The team's left are the Cowboys and the Eagles. Is that correct?

This is some interesting... This is some interesting game theory. All right. I think every once in a while I'm a very analytical person. Oh, yes, you are. But not all the time. But not all the time. And sometimes I sort of feel like that you have to believe in the intangibles. I'm taking

the Philadelphia Eagles. And this is fascinating because I have the Dallas Cowboys last on my depth chart. Last. So I have to take the Cowboys. Felt like the Eagles are going to go a little bit higher. They didn't. Baltimore. Alright, so that makes sense. So here's how

it works. Kevin Clark with New Orleans, New England, the Rams, Seahawks, Baltimore, and Philly. I have the Chiefs, the Chargers, the Bears, the Colts, the Texans, Dallas. It feels like you have especially with those top four,

I think you won the draft. I mean, we're going to find out. We are. So basically, it's like, how many of the top four do you get in the final four that's worth like 25% of the grade, and then ultimately do you get the winner? And then just 10% pure fun is what I just had. Okay. I want

to ask you about your article and it's entitled, this is up on ringer.com right now, The Curse of the Salary Cap Eating Quarterback. Because of how the playoff teams have finished out and how the top, I guess, compensated quarterbacks for this year have ended up sitting at home. And you can get,

I want you to clean up this cause I don't want to speak for you. It's your piece, but basically the premise, at least for this year is what the top guys are not playing by average annual value. The top five and a half guys, Derek Carr's tie with Drew Brees, are not in the playoffs. I think that generally to say it's not okay to pay a quarterback is an overreach in this situation

because I don't think the Saints, I don't think the Colts, I don't think the Seahawks are asking for their money back for their quarterbacks. But I think that from a team building standpoint, you need a couple of things. Either a cheap quarterback and a rookie deal. The Bears are a good example. The Rams are a good example. The Chiefs are obviously a good example. They're going to have the MVP on making, what, $5 million this year and under contract for three more years. And so that's the one thing. Or you do what the Saints did, which is pay your quarterback $25 million flat, but hit on a historic draft class. You need either a quarterback. You can either have

the cheap contract, or you can have a You can either have the cheap contract or you can have a quarterback who solves all your problems or you can have rookies who solve the problems the quarterback can't. The Saints are going to win the Super Bowl because they have both. They have the quarterback who can solve the problems and a rookie draft class who can fill the gaps. Here's something that I've brought up to a bunch of different people and I've sent out a couple tweets on it and I've done just a bad job because it's better to explain it in this form than it is saying, hey, here's this thought, especially when it comes to finances. But I was going back and looking at it again last night. The salary cap projection for 2019 is going to be north $190 million, right?

North $190, yeah. Okay, so— It's climbed at least $10 million since 2013, every year. So, yeah, 2014, it was $133, so you're saying it's $123 in— $123 in 2013. Okay, so if – and I know not everything is apples to apples here when you're comparing other sports, and there's nothing that infuriates me more than when an NFL player complains about an NBA contract. And you're like, do you guys not understand the difference between 14, 15, and 53?

But that's an absurd amount of salary cap space in a very short amount of time. I mean, five years for the evolution of the finances of a league to jump up that much, to go up $60 million. So when I see this presentation of, and I don't think that's what you were doing. I think you were hitting at it at least for this year, but if it's $2 or $3 million more for a salary cap hit and a quarterback, other leagues would love to have that problem because you've basically built in this $10 million plus buffer every single year. And I know contracts are different and how you front load them, and it's just a completely different world.

But none of these deals are even really more than three years long anyway, except for the quarterback. And then you redo it anyway. So I'm not willing to believe that now you have to have the cheaper quarterback to succeed in the NFL. That's my point. I generally agree with you. And I also think you have to look at the rising cap to contextualize some of these contracts. One of the things we keep talking about is the Kahlil Mack deal. Oh, Oakland couldn't carry the Kahlil Mack deal. They already paying Derek Carr. That's right. That makes no sense. Kahlil Mack, his cap hit in 2021 is $24 million.

There's an argument to be made that by that time the cap is $220 million, something like that. So he's going to be around 10%, 11%, 12% at most. That's how you win the Super Bowl. In 2021, assuming Khalil Mack is still the game wrecker he is now, that is going to be an incredible contract. So I think that that's what I think is interesting is you have these sort of Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson type deals that were signed in 2015 or 2016 respectively,

and they've aged so well because now Matthew Stafford and Derek Carr are making $4 and $5 million more. And so I think that you sort of have to – I think the solution, unless you can get an Eagle situation where everybody's making $9 million, I think the middle-class veterans still really help you win. I think B-plus players having a massive stack of B-plus players who are paid like B-minus players or C-plus players, I think that's how you get real value.

But I think that going forward, the key for a lot of teams is just not negotiating with a mediocre quarterback as an elite starter. So I think the Lions should have driven a harder bargain with Matthew Stafford. Obviously, the Raiders should have driven a harder bargain with Derek Carr. I think it's more about kind of not mindlessly giving out extensions because it's the cost of doing business. I think teams need to reevaluate how they do it. Why did the Falcons just go ahead and give Matt Ryan more guaranteed money than any team in the history of football? That one I would agree with you on. I don't understand how, well, hey, my guy's up and he's the newest guy up, so he gets the most money. And you're like, you know what would be a better way of doing this?

He gets the most money if he's better, not newer. And maybe part of that is the cap. I used to think agents destroyed those teams before we had the cap. It's not a cap hold, but basically a capping of rookie contracts. So the new rookie scale thing is. But the whole reason it happened is because teams were giving $5 million to to ten million more guaranteed to every first quarterback that was taken. And you go – if you go from like Eli to the next guy five years later, it almost doubled. Like teams were allowing this runaway train of front-loaded money for rookie quarterbacks.

And we're like, OK, well, this isn't sustainable. They reset it. The NBA will do it too. They'll reset it all over again when they do their new CBA. So I would agree with you that you could be smarter about it, but I, especially with the number that you threw out there coming up later,

there's more ways to get out of cap hell in the NFL. And, you know, I did a bad job of explaining this. It's hard to even get into cap hell anymore. Okay, by the way, you know, every team, and I see this a lot on TV shows because it happens, but it's a big mistake is that, okay, the Cleveland Browns, wow, man, the Cleveland Brown way, every team, and I see this a lot on TV shows because it happens, but it's a big mistake is that,

okay, the Cleveland Browns, wow, man, the Cleveland Browns, their position, they're unbelievable. They're going to have 75 million in cap space. Okay, here's a little

primer for you. The Colts right now have 122 million in cap space. The Jets have 105 million. The Bills have 85 million. Okay, there are 11 teams

that are at 50 million in cap space. There's about 20 teams at 30 million in cap space. So this unprecedented cap rise. And again, knowing that you can backload some of this stuff because of what's going to happen with a new TV deal. Once they get all this gambling money figured out, everyone having cap space in a way kind of means no one has cap space because it's not an advantage over anybody else. So when people argue, oh, this young team, a new coach, and look at all their cap space this offseason, it's not like you're the only team with cap space. When I talk to NFL cap guys about just the labor problems in football,

I say, were the rookie contracts a mistake? And they say, eh, kind of. But the real mistake was letting teams roll over basically unlimited amounts of salary cap because that's how you get the Colts. That's how you get the Browns. Which no one ever talks about, by the way. Because it's complicated, because no one ever gets it. You don't have to use all of your cap space. It's something I proposed to the NBA over 10 years ago, by the way. It was a cap certificate thing. And I think it'd make more sense in the NBA because it'd be easier to follow it. Right.

But can you explain it to those that, I think there's still so many NFL fans that don't realize that you don't have to use all your cap space in the NFL. There's a couple – Despite the what? The floor. There's a floor. And you have to spend 90 percent of your cap space over a rolling four-year period. So the Raiders did not do that last time. And all you have to do in that case is write a check to the players that were on your team for whatever the difference was.

So I've talked to GMs. team for whatever the difference was. So I've talked to GMs. I remember talking to a sort of a small market GM a couple of years ago who was not at that point hitting the floor. And I think they eventually did. But I said, you know, you guys are going to hit the salary cap floor if you don't act soon. And he's like, well, first of all, we have these extensions of these young guys, et cetera, et cetera. But also, if we don't reach it, who cares? We're just going to sign a check. We're not going to start adding guys for the sake of adding guys. We like our team. And so we're not going to go out and just spend the floor or whatever.

We'll just reward the guys we have. Okay. So that's kind of like when the NBA, if you're below the 90% salary floor, like this has happened a few times. It happened with the Trailblazers. It happened with Hinky and the Sixers where everybody was going to get a bonus check so that the salaries paid out. So is that the NFL? Is that what the Raiders are saying? The exact same thing? Like everybody gets a

raise if we don't hit the floor. Right. Okay. Right. And so, yeah, so there's that, but then if you don't spend the cap money, as that was basically the Brown strategy, was, so 2016 was the incentive bonuses where the Raiders had to go above the cap floor.

So they basically had to give out all their bonuses in 2016. So now, if you don't – basically one of the Browns' strategies aside from accumulating draft picks was just rolling over as much cap space as they possibly could, and that's why they have it. Now, the difference is I talked to John Dorsey in August, and he basically said they wanted – what they felt was if they went into free agency with all of that cap room, that if they were still bad, they would have to way overpay guys in order to come to Cleveland. So what they did is they wanted to win a little bit in 2018, and they ended up doing that.

And that's why they added a Demarius Randall in the trade. That's why they went out and signed a Tyrod Taylor as much as that didn't work. Landry. Landry is a great example. They wanted to spend money because they didn't want to be a two-win team going into free agency next year with $150 million because agents were just going to take them to the bank – take them to the bath, rather. And what that would have done, by the way, is it would have – Yeah, either one works. Clean it up. That would have driven up average annual salaries for certain positions because then other agents would be using those deals as templates for what they would want for their guy at another position.

So I don't know what's going to happen with all this cap space. You know what's not going to happen? It's like all of it isn't going to be used. And another thing I did a poor job of explaining in this Antonio Brown deal is, and another thing, like I remember doing radio and Roethlisberger had all of his stuff off the field, and then there was this report that Schefter had at the time. I think it had to be before Schefter was at ESPN in 2010, right? The Steelers were open to trading him, and no one really thought it was true, but it was like they leaked. Teams will do this.

They wanted the message to get out there that we're willing to do this. Now, the difference here, which I should have explained better in the tweet, is that clearly Antonio Brown wants out of Pittsburgh. Ben did not want out of Pittsburgh back in 2010 when he was facing that six-game suspension, ultimately ended up being four-game suspension. But my larger point is with all of this cap space, and granted, this still has more to do with what the Steelers are going to be looking at doing, and the Steelers are somebody that's not in that cap heaven of just all sorts of cap space.

They're actually toward the bottom of the league. But would the Brown situation get so bad or could they justify the assets coming back enough that they go, it makes no sense. Like it makes no sense in an old NFL world to go, wait a minute, 21 million to keep him or 20 million to eat and dead money to trade him out of here. or $20 million to eat and dead money to trade him out of here. But I just feel like with this unprecedented cap space and what's happening, and again, I just don't think it's talked about enough,

that maybe teams are going to go, hey, we can find a way to make all this work under $190 million if we're getting some pieces back that we like. And like 2010, although different motivations here, Schefter saying today that the Steelers are open to this, despite the fact that every cap guy was tweeting out, there's no way a team would ever do it because it's never been done. Well, just because it's never been done, I don't know that it's impossible or the Steelers have no intention of wanting

to trade him or just trying to do something that they did eight years ago with Roethlisberger, even if it seems completely different, because Ben definitely didn't want to leave back then. It's kind of funny how even if something doesn't make sense, it does. It's funny to me how things that don't make any sense in the service can become sensical if you start hearing reporters

around it, because they're obviously talking to people. It reminds me a little bit of on Sunday night, no one was talking about Leonard Fournette. And then all of a sudden, the Jaguars reporters were like, well, Jaguars need to move on from Leonard Fournette. And it's like, wait, what? He's in his second year. We're going to cut him all of a sudden, it's the Jaguars reporters are like, well, Jaguars need to move on from Leonard Fournette. And it's like, wait, what? Like, he's in his second year.

We're going to cut him all of a sudden? It's like, who's that coming from? But yeah, I think that, you know, the Antonio Brown thing is one of the most fascinating cases because, again, with that rising cap with $109 million,

there's just so many teams who are going to be able to carry that. And there's so many teams who don't have... Yeah, because Barnwell's point when he kind of went back at me was like, it doesn't matter

what the other 31 teams have. It matters only what the Steelers have. And I go so many teams who don't have... Yeah, because Barnwell's point when he kind of went back at me was like, it doesn't matter what the other 31 teams have. It matters only what the Steelers have. And I go, okay, but that may mean like in the old world, even with Brown, I don't know that people would have been willing to take on that $20 million. I just... People absolutely do. So since they're willing to take it on,

they may be willing to actually give you something where you go, okay, wait a minute, this makes sense, even with the weird numbers on it. Yeah, I mean, what is equal value for Antonio Brown? I don't know. He's the best receiver in the NFL. A first and a second? If Amari Cooper's a first-round pick, I mean, maybe a top-ten pick? I don't know.

And for all the problems with Brown, you know how the new team's going to be like, oh, we'll be fine. He'll be fine. It was Ben's fault. We have a culture here that's good. That kind of bullshit. But I think with Brown, it's going to be really hard because teams still view it.

There's not enough forward-thinking GMs who are going to say, we can carry this easily. They're still going to see that contract as an albatross. I still think there are still GMs who, first of all, they've relied way too much on the rookie salary scale, and they understand. And by the way, what a weird thing that ended up being, because if you're a vet and you're voting on the current player situation, all of your reps, right, 1,000-plus guys, and you're saying,

yeah, let's definitely scale down rookie wages. That makes sense. More money for us, and it's actually been worse because now those rookie contracts are so much more value that the age has gone. Like, you point all this stuff out. What the vets voted for, which made sense on the surface, has actually screwed them more than they thought. So obviously the rookie salary, I mean, it's ridiculous.

So basically the average age of offensive players has gone down like two years. In a very short amount of time. Yes, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable how quickly that fell. There are a handful of veterans on every team who get extended, and that's that. And then everybody else is washed out after four years. It's really quite incredible.

I've written quite a bit about this because I think it's the labor problem of our time in the NFL. But I think what is sort of more fascinating is I talked to Josh Norman about this in August, but he was saying there's actually a worse layer, which is it's only really offensive skill guys who get paid anymore or pass rushers and defensive backs don't get paid enough. And they're also getting fined all the time, all the time. So it's a system that rewards offensive skill guys, punishes defensive guys who are almost always on the rookie contract. But then because of sort of the draconian nature of NFL fine systems,

the cornerbacks who are making $900,000 are constantly being fined. It's really a pretty bad, unfair system, and I hadn't thought about it until Josh Norman told me that. Yeah, $900,000 after an agent cut of 4% after your taxes, unless you're in Texas, because I keep hearing that I have state taxes. Florida doesn't either. your taxes unless you're in Texas. Cause I keep hearing that I have state taxes. Um, Florida doesn't either. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Your, your take home was 400 grand. You started getting fined after taxes, that kind of cash, a hundred grand. Like that's, that's an insane amount of money that we don't ever think of. He's like, Oh, it's a pro athlete.

All right. You're the man. I think we covered it all. Fantastic. Do you have anything to plug the podcast? Yeah. Uh, so news day with Mina Kimes oh that's right Mina came out today she was on the lot yesterday caught a Deshaun Watson thing coming out tomorrow and then Patrick Mahomes thing

coming out next week I can't wait for the Mahomes thing you were talking about it with us out on the balcony it sounds pretty good awesome thanks for having me thanks

before we get to Andy I want to talk about my friends at Burrow I got the couch man and it is sweet Thanks. Before we get to Andy Benoit, I want to talk about my friends at Burrow. I got the couch, man, and it is sweet. And the thing is, yeah, it's not just about the 17 inches, okay? I'll get to the personal experience here in a second because we want to thank Burrow because Dual Threat is brought to you by Burrow. Are you planning on big changes the new year? It's tough whether you're trying to break bad habits or leave a lame relationship.

Man, this thing got weird. Burroughs writers took a turn for the, how dark is this read going to get? Are you on a couch alone? No, it doesn't say that. One of the changes that should be easy is pulling the plug on that worn out, hand-me-down couch you've been hanging on to. So, hey, you get dumped by a couch. Start fresh in 2019 with the most comfortable, durable, and stylish sofa out there from Burrow. Once you spend a few minutes on your Burrow sofa, you'll wonder how you went so long without it. Burrow sofas are designed for comfort with supportive proprietary foam

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That's B-U-R-R-O-W dot com slash dual, D-U-A-L. That's burrow.com slash dual to save up to $500 on your sofa. Thanks again to Burrow for supporting the show. Okay, part two of Dual Threat today, not more college, more NFL getting ready for the wildcard weekend from Sports Illustrated. One of my favorite guys has been on before. It's Andy Benoit. Okay, we're going to do your picks for the wildcard games here. And I'll just start with Indy at Houston. I love that Indy finally has a competent defense. We know Houston's good defensively. T.Y. Hilton's done really well against Houston's secondary,

which I think is a big lean, at least for me here. I like the Colts, although, you know, I'm not going to be surprised if Houston wins this one, especially at home, although Deshaun lately, not as good, but maybe it's just sort of a fluky end of year. What do you see when you break down the film? Yeah, no, I agree with all of those sentiments. I think Watson's a big deal in this game.

And if I'm the Colts, what you need to do, he was, to be honest, Ryan Watson was the reason Houston lost in their last meeting with Indianapolis. He was not a comfortable quarterback in that game. He played very choppy, happy feet in the pocket. He was not in rhythm. There was a lack of scheduling to all of his reads. So if I'm the Colts, I've got to all of his, all of his reads. So find the Colts. I've got to get him playing that way again. And this will be the third time he's seen our

defense. Now the Colts have done a little bit more stuff schematically than they did early in the year. They've become a little bit more than just a vanilla defense, but they're a pretty straightforward zone team overall. I think the biggest guy is as a factor for this will be slot corner Kenny Moore. They bring him on blitzes. He's part of their disguise. He's also a very good player within just their regular zones. I'm using Kenny Moore to get Deshaun Watson uncomfortable early in the game. And if we're picking these games, sounds like we're picking these, Ryan, I am picking the Colts. I think they're a more stable team on, a more complete stable team. Let's put it that way.

What do you see when you see Luck? Because the numbers are good. They're winning games. I'm a huge fan. He doesn't have to have the big throws, but I still think those big throws are missing from him the way we've seen in the past. And I don't know if that's just who he's going to be the rest of his career. It's just easy.

I think all of us get caught up in wins and losses and everybody's like, oh, he's back, he's back. I don't actually think he's the same guy, and I don't know if that's just who he's going to be the rest of his career. It's just easy. I think all of us get caught up in wins and losses and everybody's like, oh, he's back, he's back. I don't actually think he's the same guy, and that's okay, but I don't know that I'm always worried about the deep ball with him the way I used to be. Yeah, no, I'm with you on that, and honestly, in this case, with most guys,

that would probably be a negative commentary overall. In this case, I think it's a positive commentary case I think it's a positive commentary I think it's a look at the expansion and evolution of Andrew Luck I I talked to him in training camp it was one of the most interesting conversations I had because I was really curious how a guy who has been so good at extending plays especially without breaking down the play doesn't run around and extend plays he just hangs in the pocket and does it. Very, very few guys can do that, but you take a lot of hits when you do that. And now he's got these shoulder issues. And so can he continue to do that?

And I asked him and he said, he'd like to think he can, but it would be foolish if he didn't change the way he played a little bit. And I think he's done a really good job of finding that balance of, of leaning on that supernatural extension ability, play extension ability, but also being a more disciplined quarterback and getting the ball out quickly. And the guy that also deserves credit is Frank Reich because he's installed a scheme that forces Luck to get the ball out quickly. Luck's a smart guy, and he's not going to extend plays that aren't able to be extended. And when they spread out and throw the ball as quickly as they do, and I expect they'll do that, especially early in drives against Houston as a first and second down answer. Luck has been very disciplined playing within that timing this year.

So I liked his game a lot to me, Ryan, he's a lot more used to be Roethlisberger. Now I see a lot more Phillip rivers stylistically in them. Anything else from film that is worth us paying attention to this weekend on that one? Just that Indianapolis' linebackers are probably the best coached unit in football. They play very fast. It's Matt Eber, Fluster, D coordinator that works with them mainly.

That's a big deal for them. Okay. Seattle at Dallas. I like that Seattle feels a little bit more well-rounded when it looked like that window was closing. The fact that they've figured this out again on the fly. I'm not telling you, like, we both know it's not this great defense of past years, but it's not the disaster maybe we thought it would be with the turnover of personnel.

On paper, the argument is probably Dallas has the better defense of the two. I just worry about a passing attack with Dallas in that I'm not as anti-Dak as other people are, but it's hard to dispute some of the numbers. The overall yardage can be really good from him at times, but there's still some inaccuracies there, and I'm just going to go with the better quarterback, and that's why I'm taking Seattle on the road. Yeah, that's interesting.

I want to make Prescott beat me if I'm Seattle. No question about that. I'm not letting Ezekiel Elliott win the game. And Dallas might be the only team in the NFL where you're saying resolutely we want their quarterback to beat us, not their running back. Because most defenses don't fear the running game.

You don't get big plays. And Elliott actually has not been a home run hitter this year out of the run game. But Prescott's not an anticipation thrower. He's better off schedule than on schedule. I want to make him have to beat me. I'm with you on that. You mentioned their defense, right? I want to get your opinion on this. John Schneider, their GM and Pete Carroll, their head coach basically hit the reset button at the front of the year. And I think there are some fans that probably

felt maybe a year too early with them. but do you think theoretically a GM could get executive, executive of the year votes for hitting the reset button, having the guts to dump big contracts and then have it worked out pretty well, pretty quickly for him. Do you think that's worthy of voting or do we have to only look at guys that sign and get new players rather than moving on from old players? I don't know.

I would give it to Dorsey for just having the stones to grab Baker. Seriously. Yeah, and I probably would, too, and having the stones to get Denzel Ward at cornerback, too, because I don't think a lot of people. I loved him. I know he was slight a build, and you worry about that, how a guy's going to hold up.

But if you watch Ohio State enough, and they were always on, I'm like, man. And look, just for the people out there, I have a tweet that backs it up during the season where I'm like, I love watching this guy play. So, you know, maybe it was a little bit of a reach, but it feels like whenever somebody's supposed to go ninth and they go fifth, or was that what it was?

It's like, oh my gosh, what a reach. You're like, is it? You know, I don't know. I really liked him. And just the fact that the whole Browns thing feels cool now, that to me isn't it. But you make a great point with Schneider because it's pretty obvious. And that's always kind of one of those things with Seattle. And I think we saw it with McLuhan and San Francisco where you go, is it just the one guy? It happened, too, with Pauly.

Excuse me, Scott Pioli, not Pauly. It happened with Scott Pioli where, you know, he goes into Kansas City and you're like, so wait a minute, is this Belichick? Like, he's just the guy, huh? It's clear I think Schneider's that way with Seattle. And just because you worked with him doesn't mean that you're going to be him. And I can't imagine moving on from those four pieces

in the secondary and then having injuries on top of that whole thing and then working out this well. It's incredible. Yeah, no, and it speaks to also the value of having a coaching staff in place because something else they did there in Seattle, Pete Carroll got back and Chris Richard is actually a head coaching candidate now. He fired

Richard last year. Richard had been expanding their scheme defensively and Carroll said, no, we're going to rebuild. We're going to go back to our foundation. It's going to be that cover three zone defense, maybe some man-to-man here, but we're not going to be a super complex defense and maybe we'll get complex over-to-man here, but we're not going to be a super complex defense, and maybe we'll get complex over the course of the year,

but we're starting from scratch. And when you do that and you know what you're doing and you've got something to go back to because the coaching staff's been there before, they've taught it before, I think it makes it easier on your GM to get the right guys because you become very specific in what kind of traits you desire in players when you know exactly what your scheme will be. I also think Chris Carson going over a thousand and I know, you know, I'm not Mr. Running Back, certainly in this pod.

I just don't think it matters. But it's nice that there's balance there and that all the rushing numbers aren't just Russell Wilson as good as he is at that. So we know that they're both top 10 offensively in two categories there. So I just I just like Seattle a little bit better. Okay, this one I'm really looking forward to where you're at with this because Baltimore's defense. Now, the Bears' defense is kind of all-timey special,

and we're going to get to that game in a second. But Baltimore has been right there with them. The Baltimore that I remember, and I don't like to do this just because it's the Ravens again. That Ravens' defense, at least for that one year, I think that or that Bears' defense is the best thing that I've seen as somebody who watched that Ravens defense that won a Super Bowl. You go back and look at some of their scoring that they had. I think for one month, they didn't get a touchdown offensively. It felt like 12 or

13 guys were on the field when you played against them. You're just like, this is ridiculous. Now, it's not necessarily that, but here's my theory on this as good as that defense is I think it means a ton that the Chargers just played Lamar Jackson two weeks ago and this Lamar thing has gotten kind of weird in that you know I think it's kind of simple sometimes is that you had an old white guy in Bill Paulian say he should play wide receiver everybody hates that everybody gets mad at him. Lamar was very inaccurate in college, at least in the short throws. Eric Weddle even said recently, like, look, when he came into camp, man,

we were like, dude, you got a lot of work to do. Now he's 6-1, and it's really been about the defense and him running the football. And he hits one throw. I forget who it was to in that Chargers game. And then everybody on social media turns and be like, oh, I thought he couldn't throw. I thought he couldn't throw. So I think there's a bit of a race component there.

I think there's an old versus young thing. And social media, as I've found more and more, is not the greatest indicator of like where everybody's sitting. But when I watch Lamar, I see somebody who's a really good runner. But if I'm a defense that just played him, it means so much in prep of like, okay, now we know what we're dealing with here. So even though that Ravens defense, I can't give it any more credit than I already am,

but I love that the Chargers just lost to them in a close game and played Lamar and know exactly what they're dealing with and what his limitations are as a thrower, despite the one deep throw that everybody said now has somehow proved that he's this great thrower. Cause he isn't, he isn't, he hasn't been. And I'll give you one more stat, 17 carries per game in this seven game stretch where he's six and one.

So everyone's talking about like, again, the records and it's ironic too. Cause I used to crush Flacco when he had that awesome playoff one loss record. And I go, do you guys realize how little Flacco is doing in these games? He's not doing anything.

He's not doing anything. It's the defense. It's the defense. It's the defense. It's the defense. People couldn't help themselves. And he right now is carrying it as much as any. And if over a 16-game season, at 17 carries a season, he'd have 270, yeah, 272 carries for the year, which would be behind only Ezekiel Elliott for the entire year.

So this is great. It's fun. There's no way he'll keep this up over his career. I don't know that any questions have been answered except for the fact there's six and one, and that's awesome, and I'm picking against him. I gave you a lot there. I'm fascinated.

It's a lot of good stuff, and I got it all memorized. I'm fascinated to see the Chargers. The Ravens have not faced a defense that has seen Jackson for a second time yet, and so much of what they're doing is just smoke and mirrors in the running game, leveraging Jackson's legs and defenses are still, even with all the mobile QBs today,

they're most of them are not set up to account for that, that, that player talking about that, that lit up social media, that is that Mark Andrews, 69 yards. It's a great, yeah. It's a great representation of exactly where this offense is. That was a play action pass built off of a run. What the Ravens do, they pull their left guard on almost all of their run designs anymore, and they'll run a receiver one way or the other,

and now you've got two moving pieces, that polar and that wide receiver, plus Jackson, and that's all they're doing to confuse defenses. So that's what they did on that play. They pulled the left guard, the linebacker reacted, and then they threw in the linebackers zone. It was Adrian Phillips who the chiefs had beaten on a similar play a few weeks earlier, and they got them on that one shot. And that's a great illustration of coaching and building offense. And that's how you have to play with Jack. And that was a one read throw it's Mark Andrews or a check down basically. And when you make it like that projection, then his raw talent can take over and he's a more comfortable passer.

If you're asking them to make multi-progression reads, which they're not even asking him to do right now, it tells you everything about where he is. He just got a ways to go, but he looked like a very different quarterback. So now the question is, can they get away with this again against the chargers? These one read plays built off with

the running game or will the chargers have an answer for it if they do have an answer or if the chargers get out and let's say they get a 10 point lead somehow what can the ravens play from there and my guess would be no they cannot because they haven't even attempted to play that way yet the other part that's interesting is the ravens' defense throws so much stuff at you, too. It's a very highly-schemed team on both sides of the ball. And there were a couple of cases in that game where they met a few weeks ago where the defense blew some coverages out of their zone, blitzing stuff that they do, and Rivers just didn't happen to see it. And that's unlike Rivers, but he was playing fast.

His guards were getting killed. He wasn't comfortable. He didn't trust them. If he settled in going into the game, I don't see Rivers missing on reads was playing fast. His guards were getting killed. He wasn't comfortable. He didn't trust them. If he settled and going into the game, I don't see Rivers missing on reads like that twice. So I think Baltimore, they're going to have to play better this week than they did in that last

meeting when they totally outplayed the Chargers. They're going to have to be even better to have a chance, I think. So wait a minute. Do you like... Who do you like in that one? I like the Chargers. Those are some big yes with Baltimore. They've got to have a lead with Jackson. They've got to hope the Chargers aren't more comfortable with their run looks,

and then they've got to hope their defense is perfect or near perfect and Rivers doesn't see the flaws two weeks in a row. I don't think it's going to – that's too many yes for me. Okay, last one. You did a breakdown on SI.com of this with the film stuff. Philly at Chicago. This one's tough because I know where we're all at with Trubisky, where we go, do you really?

I was reading scouting reports this morning up on ESPN.com where I think it was a coach that went against him, and they're like, oh, he can't really throw. It's one read. It kind of reminds me of the Jalen Hurts stuff with Alabama where it's one read, tuck it, and throw, and if he doesn't see a second thing, he's going to go for it. And you're like, oh, yeah, except for he threw for 330 again.

So they've done they've done an amazing job of putting up major numbers with this guy, even though I don't know if we're really scared of it. I'll give him this to like Trubisky the beginning of the year. I'm like, I don't know, man, I don't know. And now it's like, OK, no, wait, like it looks like this is going to work to whatever level it needs to work. Their defense is special. You understand that all the metrics say that it's special, but what do they do? Man's own concepts on defense that Foles is going to have to deal

with because this is part of your film breakdown. Yeah. And this, this is probably the single matchup I'm most excited to see is Eagles offense versus Bears defense. Cause what makes that Bears defense special people around the NFL, I probably had this conversation with 12 different coaches over the last two years and the conversation went like this the Bears yeah they're a top 10 defense easily nobody knows it and if they ever get a pass rusher they'll probably be the NFL's best defense and what makes them so good by the way they got the pass rusher this is was all pre-Khalil Mack trade talk. They get that pass rusher. What makes them so good is they line up in these zone coverages, and you're never sure what zone you're looking at. Their safeties move around just a little bit. It's not like the Ravens or Eric Weddle's running across the field. It's very subtle,

deceptive movement. Same with the linebackers. And that's what a quarterback reads to diagnose his own coverage. He reads safeties and linebackers. Vic Fangio, their D coordinator there does a masterful job of teaching those guys how to line up in a blurry way where you're not quite sure what zone you're looking at. And even if you have an idea, let's say, I'm pretty sure it's covered too. They'll wrinkle it on one side of the formation or the other so that it's covered too. But over there, it's kind of a little bit of man to man.

So even when you know the zone, you're never quite sure what zone it is still. And that's the bears. That's why they're so good. And then you're trying to figure it out and Khalil max breathing down your neck. In the meantime, the Eagles are so good because they do a great job of out leveraging your zones with multiple receivers. They put two receivers to the short side of the field. They'll put two receivers to the short side of the field. They'll run three receivers to the wide side of the field.

And those routes are structured to all work together to beat zone coverage. So what happens now when you've got a zone beating route passing game versus a blurry zone defense? And that's what we're going to find out. Who is Nick Foles? and that's what we're going to find out. Who is Nick Foles? Because his first year, he starts six games with Philadelphia.

It's not very good. And then in 2013, he has the incredible year with 27 touchdowns, two picks, and it wasn't like he wasn't throwing the football because it was nine yards per attempt, completion percentage. All the numbers are off the charts. But even Chip Kelly knew, you know, we don't really think this is the guy. And what I was always told is that like Chip made the deal for Sam Bradford because he felt like a healthy Bradford was still talented beyond.

And I know people want to laugh about that, but they saw in Bradford, if he's healthy, which he never was, that this is the only chance we have of obtaining one of these guys that really gives us a chance of doing something. And the irony being that Foles ends up winning a Super Bowl as the backup against the Patriots of all teams years later. But if he really is the guy that we saw in the playoffs, which could have been a Flacco-type run,

you know, he's been good. I wouldn't say great. I think he's been, I don't know. I don't know what the right word is here. Maybe you can help me, Andy, and how he's extended plays without being able to run, kind of extending into the pocket. I feel like if he played a full 16 games,

then maybe we go, oh, wait a minute, that's why Nick Foles is a backup. Or is he this just magical guy that's figured it all out that just doesn't get to play all the time because Wentz at one point looked like a future MVP? I know that 2013 was fluky. His own staff and front office thought it was fluky. And yet we have the playoff run, which again still feels fluky,

but I don't know. It's hard to kind of doubt this guy as much as we have, even though he's given us evidence to doubt him. Right. He is so difficult to pinpoint because we can see what he is. He's a slow, methodical, long-levered guy. I mean, he takes up a lot of space. Everything is a little bit slower than you want mentally, physically.

That's how he plays. And yet, it is that Minnesota game that made him so hard to understand, Ryan, because in that game, we talked about Andrew Luck extending plays without breaking down the play. That's exactly what Nick Foles did there and he beat a Vikings defense that was better than the Eagles offense more talented and Nick Foles just beat him without without him it wasn't like it was a Chip Kelly thing where they were running an offense people hadn't seen and they were winning by design Nick Foles beat the Vikings then he did the same thing against the Patriots the next week.

So I don't know what to make of him because his end results, his bottom line do not equal the sum of the parts. They don't equal the man they're coming from. That's a hard one. It's going to be a real – let's say – I mean, how about this? Let's say the Eagles go on another run and at least look very good in the championship game, and Foles continues to play this way and he's

played like this the last few weeks now for the most part that's a fascinating conversation there because there's no doubt Carson Wentz is the more talented of the two players and there's also no doubt that the Eagles offense has produced better with Nick Foles than with Wentz lately. How's Lane Johnson going to hold up against Khalil Mack a right tackle? Anybody's guess. Lane Johnson is the most, given his level of talent, he's the most up and down tackle in the NFL.

Bad year this year? Would you say it was a bad year this year or bad for what his standard was for him in 2017? Well, he's been that way throughout his career. So when his mechanics are good, he's great. When they're not, then he's going to give up a few sacks. He outplayed J.J. Watt one-on-one back in Week 16 not long ago.

So I'm sure they're going to let him go one-on-one against Mack. Are we taking the guy that outplayed J.J. Watt, which he might be the only one all year that's done that, or do we have to consider the guy that, I don't know what his numbers are in a tackle, but he probably gave up 8 to 12 really bad pass rushes over the course of the season. They have to gamble and assume he's going to be the guy that played against J.J. Watt. And if they get that guy, then that's a really, really competitive game. If they don't get that guy, Bears probably win by 10.

We could say, as important as Foles is. This game very well might come down to right tackle Lane Johnson. Okay. Give me your Super Bowl pick. Oh, my Super Bowl. I don't even know if I've even thought about it. They did make us do it at SI. What did I have? I think I had Saints and Chiefs. I'm going

chalk. Those are probably the two toughest stadiums to play. Is that what I did? Yeah. I don't get into the picks a whole lot, as you can tell, but the Saints, that's the two toughest stadiums to play. Is that what I did? I don't get into the picks a whole lot, as you can tell, but the Saints, that's the toughest NFC stadium to play in on the road. And Arrowhead's probably the AFC's toughest stadium, wouldn't you think? Yeah, I do. I do. I guess, you know, this New England team is not as good as the other teams. And I tried to make this point weeks ago where when you get smoked by bad teams,

that's usually an indicator that you're not as good as you used to be in the standard for new England is, is off the charts. And I'm not even really blaming them, blaming them for the Miami thing as much, but it was weird that all of a sudden what they beat the bills and they were back. Like,

what the hell was that about? Like all my patch buddies and all these guys be like, Oh, I thought you guys like you beat the bills andets to close the year. Now you're awesome. Like, what is it? What are you, high? They beat the Bills by elementary school level of offense they were running that. They beat

the Bills by handing it off and just running down there, which I guess they, hey, they can do that not every team can, but yeah, that's them, but that you know, New England's a little bit of a mystery, but I've learned this lesson before remember last year they were kind of winning games in that ugly hand off the ball fashion late

then they got to the divisional round against Tennessee and they spread out and threw and dinked and dunked like they had a few years before with Edelman on those linebackers over the middle all of a sudden it was the Patriots again so they can take on just about any shape on any week assuming that Brady's

still Brady. And I've just decided I'm going to just be wrong on Brady in the very end and assume he's never going to age. Okay, so you're not going up against them. I'm going to go New Orleans to win the whole thing over the Chargers. Oh, okay. Yeah, I just don't want

to do chalk because something's going to have to happen there. I look at some of these quarterbacks like Houston and like, okay, you know, Deshaun Watson hasn't played in a playoff game. And you go, yeah, but he played against Bama twice for the national title. Do you honestly think a wildcard game against the Colts is going to get to this guy? Like if Deshaun Watson has a bad game, he has a bad game. But I'm not buying anybody going, I couldn't handle the pressure. Like, have you ever?

And I was lucky enough to be on the sideline for both of those title games. So I think that was probably a bigger deal, something that would cause more anxiety, more stress, than a wild card game against a divisional team that you've played twice already. So, okay, I like it. You went chalk. Okay, give me one last thing before I let you go. I'm going to kind of let you take it wherever you want to go,

but it's quarterback related, and it is, hey, this is still a problem at quarterback, or this is a quarterback, if he went somewhere else, you would like his chances. Oh, I think Carolina has to look at their quarterback situation. I'm not saying they should move on from Cam Newton at all, but Cam Newton's had shoulder injuries the last couple years, and 2015, that MVP season, that was clearly the outlier.

Every other year, he's been an inconsistent passer, which means up and down. It doesn't mean bad. What makes him inconsistent? What in your film study makes him? Because I brought up the point, and tell me if I'm wrong here, because there's blitz numbers that say he's good. And then I looked at another pressure number that said he was bad against pressure. And my thing has always been, and Willie Colon said it on my show on the air, which I give him credit for, that he's not good at picking up stuff.

And that other players have said the same thing. And then it turns into a whole other issue that I don't really feel like getting into every single time we talk about a black quarterback. But, you know, you study this stuff far more than I do, I ever will. What has been – give me some of the problems for Cam, because the injury thing sucks for him because he's so big and massive that you just – you never think it's going to catch up to you, and it does. It just does. The way that you still use him at the goal line all the time, like I don't care, man.

Eventually he's going to catch up to you. So what holds him back from being that guy that we thought maybe he was going to develop into once he was the MVP? Yeah, what holds him back is his feet do not work in conjunction with his upper body when he throws the ball on a lot of passes. He is an incredibly talented thrower. His arm, just as an individual entity, his arm is great. But the rest of his body mechanically all working together, it's not very great. That's where the inconsistency is, which is why when he misses, it's almost always high and wide. He's thrown with all arm there.

And if that's the way he throws, then he's going to be inconsistent forever. And that's the way it has been for at least 95% of his career. So that's the, I I'm fine with the way he reads the field. I mean, I've never thought that always Peyton Manning or anything like that, but I do think he's more than checks the boxes in that phase. And I love that they run them as much as they do, because with all respect to Newton, if you're not going to run them, he's probably not a quarterback worth protecting.

So let's use him for what his strengths are and leverage him in the offense that way. So we've seen that it can work. It just too often doesn't, and the reason is because there's a lot of pressure on his arm and only his arm. I'm not a doctor at all, but just floating the idea out there, if you've got shoulder issues and you throw with more of your arm than your

lower body, which is not how you're taught to throw, how optimistic are the Panthers at the shoulder issues are going to get better over time rather than two out of three years. Now I think that we've, that we've had some problems at the shoulder. You're the best. Enjoy the playoffs, Andy. All right. Thanks, Ryan. Okay. That'll do it again. Apologies about not being around on the holidays. It's just not the way All right. Thanks, Ryan. Okay, that'll do it. Again, apologies about not being around on the holidays. It's just not the way it worked out.

But we have some cool stuff planned. We haven't finalized any of this stuff, so I don't even know why I'm going to do this big tease thing. Here's what I can tell you. Buy a couch and have a vodka soda. All right? And keep subscribing. Rate and review to the Ringer pod for us here on Dual Threat

because it's going great and without you none of this happens so happy new year I mean that a lot every comment everybody's saying how much they like the podcast and stuff we're doing I can't thank you enough I know there was no college football on this after all the bulls well I did it on the ESPN one and I didn't want to double up so how about we do this I will do a national championship post thing and we'll have that all kind of figured out grab a guest that I like and we'll do the college football stuff so this dual threat was two nfl playoff voices getting you ready for the playoffs because it's uh this will come out on thursday so that's how we wanted to do it word