The Ryen Russillo Podcast - NFL Teams Ranked by a CFB Selection Committee. Plus: Damien Woody on Jeff Saturday and Bryce Young, and ‘The Last Folk Hero: The Life and Myth of Bo Jackson' With Jeff Pearlman.

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

Russillo ranks the top six NFL teams in the style of a college football playoff committee (0:39), before he is joined by two-time Super Bowl champion Damien Woody to discuss Alabama QB Bryce Young, Jeff Saturday being named head coach of the Colts, NFL teams with the best resumé this season, Odell Beckham Jr.'s return, Aaron Rodgers, and more (11:43). Then Ryen is joined by author Jeff Pearlman to discuss his new book, 'The Last Folk Hero: The Life and Myth of Bo Jackson' (39:34). Finally Ryen and Kyle give out their favorite bets for NFL Week 10, before answering some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:14:54). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Damien Woody and Jeff Perlman Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

awesome podcast today here's what we're doing we're going to look at the nfl and come up with the six teams and how i would rank them in the college football playoff system but for the nfl damian woody's talking jeff saturday a bunch of other stuff and a little college ball as well with him and jeff perlman, new book out, the last folk hero. Bo Jackson, one of the coolest athletes of my lifetime. He's done the definitive biography. He'll talk with him.

Our Friday Fan Duel picks and life advice. Hey, Uber Eats, winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Today, we are going to focus on a new little thing. We've done this before. We did this back in the day when we were just hunting for segments,

and I thought it'd be kind of fun, halfway point of the NFL season. I'm going to try to rank the NFL teams as the top four college football teams. If there were an NFL playoff and we were on committee and I was a voter, this is how I would put it together. So I'd be looking for my top four and then we would have the others just out five and six. And I'll apply some college football philosophical stuff to this. Now, again, I made this up last night when I put together my rankings. Again, we've done this before on the radio show back in the day, just a fun little exercise when you are segment hunting. Okay. So when I'm trying to figure out who my number one seed would be, I knew, well, you kind of have to put Philadelphia, right?

They're undefeated. They're 8-0. And I can put Minnesota there just because of the 7-1 record. Do they make the playoff? Does Minnesota make the top four? record. Do they make the playoff? Does Minnesota make the top four? Then I started thinking, okay, but if I were to apply some of the college football stuff that I've done in the past to this, how would I change it? If I had one loss, Alabama, ahead of another undefeated team in college football, that wouldn't be the worst, right? But wait a minute, Buffalo has two losses. Can you

really do that? So I decided to look at it this way. I think two losses in the NFL at this point of the season is the same as one college football loss. Because eventually, if a team in college football that you still think is really good, they get to that second loss. And it's like, okay, I can't do this anymore. And by the way, everybody that would get mad about Alabama being that one loss team, like, oh, here we go again. It's like, okay, do you actually think they're bad? But then you have that second loss. It's kind of hard to make that argument. So the math that I've created again, last night, so don't get super mad. I have Buffalo as my number one seed. If we were doing an NFL playoff, their best win might be the best win in the NFL this year at Kansas city debatable,

but it's, you're not putting a ton ahead of it. I don't know that I would put any ahead of it. They beat Baltimore. The Rams week one win 31-10. You know, felt good, but, you know, we're not that high in the Rams anymore. But just kind of go back to that point. Like, man, that was really dominant. Sometimes I do think like teams do change, you know, shockingly. The Green Bay win, not really sure what to do with Green Bay results anymore with the disaster they've been. But that was kind of dominant, even if it was 27-17. They've faced the fifth toughest schedule.

They've played against the sixth toughest offenses. It's a little bit of the SEC-AFC comp here, and they're the number one seed in the tougher conference, so I'm okay with it. Their losses aren't great. I still can't believe they lost to Miami

in that game, and they did lose to the Jets just this past week. So if we did recency, there's probably a lot of people that are going to disagree with me on that one. And then I applied the, do I actually just think they're better than everybody else? And I still do. So that moves Philadelphia to number two. Some will understand, some will be upset. They're 8-0. Okay, the best win, though. Do they have anything that's close to at Kansas City? They do not.

Do they have something that's better than Baltimore? Again, it depends on how the committee feels about Baltimore. Clearly, this committee of one likes the Baltimore Ravens. So, you can't say the best win is against Dallas, who was with Cooper Rush. It's definitely week two, Minnesota, 24-7.

It's Minnesota's only loss. Eagles receivers running wide open the entire time. It felt like Kirk Cousins wanted to throw even more picks in that game. That was a beating of the Vikings very early in the season, and considering that Minnesota's won every other game, that actually is a pretty good win, but it isn't at Kansas City. Strength of schedule. Let's look at the rest of the resume for the Eagles here.

32nd. There's 32 teams in the NFL. That would be last. They play the fifth easiest offense, the fifth easiest defense based on DVOA rankings, and it's the NFC Conference stuff. It's a little bit like the Big Ten. We've got two teams.

I don't know. Hell, the Big Ten has more teams I probably like than the NFC. They've got a top three defense. They've got a top three offense. Maybe Philadelphia's getting treated like TCU here a little bit. My number three seed, the Kansas City Chiefs. Now, best win-wise, there isn't as much to pick from here as you would like for a three seed in your playoffs. Is it at San Francisco, 44-23, bumpy start there and just throttled the Niners at their place?

I feel like I want to do a little bit better than that. I'll tell you, week two against the Chargers felt like they beat a good football team that night. I think that's a good win. Resume, I'll tell you, five and three Chargers. You can't count that one. In the moment, shoot me. I liked it. a good win. Resume, I'll tell you, five and three charges. You can't count that one. I don't know. In the moment, shoot me. I liked it. Felt good. And they almost lost that game.

Tennessee 2017. Yep, Tennessee's got a nice record. They're in the AFC playoff hunt. It's Malik Willis at home. You know what I mean? Like, how much can I really buy into that? Do they have the best loss, right? Minnesota at Philly,

prime time, maybe that's better. But I think Buffalo's the better football team's best loss. But again, Philly, for Minnesota, that one was on the road. Kansas City was at home in this one. Felt kind of like a coin toss. The problem is that, does Kansas City have the worst loss of all of the teams here?

Losing to Miami in the Jets for Buffalo is not as bad as Kansas City inexplicably losing to the Colts. Yeah, it was on the road, but it's the Colts. Strength of schedule, 10th. They faced the 5th toughest D, but the 3rd easiest

offense. Do I include the Tampa Bay win in there? 41-31? That's like a Green Bay one now. It's still the number one offense. So maybe they're getting treated like one lost Bama or maybe they're USC with Caleb Williams transferring in in a cowherd open for his radio show. Number four, is he going to put the Vikings in?

He keeps talking about Baltimore. What's going on with him? Is he going to put the Vikings in? I think you have to put the Vikings in? He keeps talking about Baltimore. What's going on with him? Is he going to put the Vikings in? I think you have to put the Vikings in. Maybe they are a little bit more like TCU than Philadelphia is. Or maybe Philadelphia is TCU. But see, I like Philadelphia more than TCU, but I like TCU more than Minnesota. Are you still paying attention? Thank you. Maybe Minnesota at 7-1 is a bit like Cincinnati. Alright, I have to put you here. I have Minnesota fourth. Best win?

I mean, you want to get on Kansas City's case. This is where the conferences start fighting with each other. Like, oh, what's your best win? Seriously? Have you looked in the mirror, Vikings? Week one against Green Bay, we thought they were going to be good. 23- other. Like, oh, what's your best win? Like, seriously, have you looked in the mirror, Vikings? Week one against Green Bay, we thought they were going to be good. 23-7. Again, not sure what to do

with the Green Bay results. Probably discount them. But probably, maybe I should stop asking the question and just come to the reality of that win is just not that exciting. Be like, oh, you beat Texas? You beat Texas in the Herman years?

Like, eh, it's not really that big of a deal. Miami. I know some of you from Vikings lander go, what about the Dolphins? Okay, you beat them with Teddy Bridgewater and Skyler Thompson at quarterback. Honestly, you could make an argument the Washington win recently

is the commanders have felt like they're a little bit more of a plucky team. That might actually be the best win. All right, strength of schedule, 25th. They do have the best loss, perhaps, as we mentioned, or the Kansas City-Buffalo debate there. Again, this one was on the road. They're just sort of mid overall, offensive, defensive numbers,

nothing they really get you excited about. I didn't even have to go with Buffalo on some of their stats because I've already beaten it over the head with a bunch of other things. All right, who are the other two teams that were left out? I'm going with the Ravens. Baltimore, number five in my rankings. Best win? Okay, I know.

Jets week one, you're not going to hear it, and I don't expect you to. Atten-Wengland, meh. Primetime Tampa, second-half domination. How about the losses? The Miami one, blown lead. Bills 23-20, no shame in that. The Giants, the blown lead.

I think they had some ridiculous number where they were 3-3 and now maybe 4-3 in games they've had 10-point leads. So to be 3-3 is actually really, really bad at the time. They feel a little bit more like LSU. Couple losses, but look out. Look out.

Although I'm almost convinced LSU's going to have a massive letdown early kick against Arkansas after beating Bama. This is a team with a resume number here where they've had the second toughest strength of schedule. They've played against the third toughest offenses. But the remaining strength of schedule, folks, we said this last week, 32. It's the easiest strength of schedule moving forward. So maybe they, like LSU, going a bit of a run here.

Finally, is it the Giants? Is it Seattle? He hasn't mentioned Dallas. He hasn't mentioned Miami. Miami in the committee debate would have a very good argument. Like, look, a bunch of games there. You had 100 and something passes with Skylar Thompson and Teddy Bridgewater.

And by the way, the Dolphins are still the best passing offense in the NFL. Some of these Dolphins' offensive numbers, as I alluded to during Worst Take, are absurd. And the fact that they missed two of them for these stretches. They're putting up... When you look at some of the stuff that they have against the number

two team in some of the rankings, even including the Kansas City Chiefs, who has Mahomes the entire season, what the Dolphins are doing is incredible. But I'm going with Dallas. 6-2. Number six in my rankings. Best win? I'm not going to convince you. At the Giants, 23-16. Rams, 22-10.

Their loss at Philly with Cooper Rush. But Cooper played six games. It's the number one defense. Strength of schedule is middling as some of the other NFC. His conference based up there when your conference isn't as good because what happens to your strength of schedule.

But I'm imagining somebody in the room is going, they had Cooper Rush for six games. They're 6-2. The defense is awesome. There isn't a loss here that really other than the Tampa one week one which is so long ago now they can get over it. I have Dallas 6.

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NFL. Must be 21 or older in select states. First online real money wager only. Refund issued is non-withdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Weekly visits with Damian Woody. Always a lot of fun. Good to check in.

Thanks for joining us on a Friday, man. What's going on? Yeah, nothing much, man. I appreciate you having me on. I actually want to talk a little college ball first. We were talking. I went to the LSU Bama game. college ball first. We were talking. I went to the LSU-Bama game. Everybody knows that.

You were watching. Bryce Young is something else. And in the moment, you can be like, all right. I don't know that I can remember the last guy I saw with that kind of poise. Not to say that there isn't somebody that doesn't exist that way. I love him. I'm hearing he's really small. I don't know what the measurements are going to be at the combine.

I think some of the roster measurements are a little friendly for him. What do you think about him as a pro quarterback? Man, that dude is a magician. That dude is a magician. When he has chaos around him, it doesn't even seem like he blinks. I think that's a special trait, especially for a college guy coming into the NFL. When you have chaos going on all around you, pocket breaks down. It seems like this dude is just so even keeled, man, and just going out there and making plays. To me, the biggest thing with him is his size. The things he's able to get away with, even in the SEC, he won he's able to get away with even in the sec

he won't be able to get away with that in the national football league these guys are bigger faster stronger on this level so that's the main thing i worry about with him is you know his availability for these games uh but outside of that mean, he puts on a display every week. Like his toys is just unbelievable, man. And I just think that's a great trait for a guy coming to the league. Yeah, he really has everything you'd want. And you just wish you were like 6'1", 205. I'd be happy.

Right. That's like the minimum. If I could have that out of Bryce Young, I think he might be the number one pick anyway, but he would be a slam dunk type of guy. I think we would talk about him on an even higher level if he had that type of size. And I do think the NFL is getting it wrong

in lowering what the acceptable size is for a quarterback. We can talk about roughing the passer, and it is. It's safer. It's all of those things. But Drew Brees to Russell Wilson made everybody think that Kyler Murray and Zach Wilson are fine. And Kyler, I don't... When he gets hurt, it lingers. Wilson, despite the win against Buffalo,

I watch him sometimes going like, dude, some of these guys, I'm not in a hurry to all of a sudden think that somebody at 5'10", 185 is going to survive in an NFL, maybe a season, but legitimately be healthy enough

over a five-year stretch. That's what I'm worried about with Bryce. I still might take him because I'm so in love with him playing quarterback. This is what I love about great quarterbacks. They play to the game. There's other quarterbacks that are the same dude, and you're like, no, no, no, I need you to be different now because the game is telling you you need to be a little bit different.

To me, Kirk Cousins is – actually actually he's had better numbers with this recently, so maybe it's unfair to him. But there's some baseline guys that put up these numbers, and you're like, yeah, but you never play to how the game dictates. And Bryce Thiem is the epitome of that. Like, okay, what do we need? Okay, now you need me to do this and start taking a little bit more risk. He's one of those guys that what I call he plays above the X's and O's.

Like quarterback, the offensive coordinator calls the X's and O's like quarterback the offensive coordinator calls the play play breaks down or whatever the case may be he finds a way to play above what the what the coordinator calls and just make spectacular plays that's a rare trait to me you don't you don't see a lot of quarterbacks that are able to do that type of stuff. Okay, let's go back to your playing days. Whether it's a quarterback or somebody else comes in, give me a story about somebody that I made the best impression early on where you were like, holy shit, or somebody where you were like, uh-oh, I think we made a mistake.

This is easy. This is easy. So I'm with the Detroit Lions, okay? And if you remember, like, this was during a time where Detroit drafted wide receiver three straight years in the first round. Hey, I thought Charles Rogers was going to be awesome. Okay, so.

You know what? On Saturdays, man, that guy was something else. Yeah, that dude was special. But the third, the third one, okay, Calvin Johnson. We literally go out. I'm walking to practice things like the rookie minicamp. I'm walking out there with Sean Jefferson, who's the wide receiver coach with the Arizona Cardinals now

and who was my former teammate with the Patriots. And Calvin Johnson walks on the field and I look and I'm like, this dude don't look familiar. Like who is that defensive end? And Sean Jefferson was like, no, that's our first round wide receiver. I'm like, dog, you gotta be shitting me. There's no wide receiver that's that big. That'll be able to move. Like I had never seen a wide receiver that side that'll be able to move. Like, I had never seen a wide receiver that size that would be able to get in and out of his cuts.

And listen, Ryan, when I tell you the first practice, I'm like, I'm sold. Like, this dude is going to kill the league because I had never seen a wide receiver every bit of 6'5", 240, moving like somebody that's like 5'10", 180, and can run past everybody. I'm like, yeah, the league is screwed over this guy.

He's going to be that guy. That must have been ridiculous because it was. I mean, it was ridiculous. I'm literally looking up at my wide receiver. He's in a huddle. I'm looking up at him. This dude is crazy, man. Literally building a lab.

Let's talk Jeff Saturday. He's going to be the coach of the Colts. Yeah. It is not going over well. What are your thoughts? Listen, I tell people all the time, sometimes you got to be able to separate the personal from the professional side. Jeff is my brother on a personal level. That's my brother.

I love him to death. We worked together this season on NFL Rewind at ESPN. But outside of that, man, what the hell is Jim Irsay doing? Like, literally, what the hell are you doing? You're literally entrusting your organization with a guy that has never, never coached in the National Football League or college, only on the high school level. We always talk about, like, part of the responsibility of a coach when he comes in is you got to get guys

to buy in. You got to get guys to respect you. And so how do you get coaches to buy in? You know, some of these couple coaches on that team are former head coaches. How is he going to get those guys to buy in? How is he going to get those guys to buy in? How is he going to get the players to buy in, knowing that you weren't in the trenches with us in OTAs, minicamp, training camp, during the season when things were going bad.

You weren't in the trenches with us. You're just waltzing in here, and you're the interim, and you're the head coach. Like, that's a – like, I can't head coach, like that's a, that's a, I like, I can't even describe like a tall task. Doesn't even do it. You know, it wouldn't even do it a disservice. Like how do you get people to buy into what you're selling in the middle of the season when things aren't going well? And Oh, by the way, you have no quarterback. Tell me how was this supposed to work like i i like i know you know for

jeff if i was presented with the same opportunity i would probably do it too but i would expect all i would expect every bit of you know the sideway looks that everyone is giving just saturday about this whole cold situation first of all we'd all say yes to it in a second all right so anybody suggesting that you don't say yes to what is an incredible opportunity like you don't apologize for the opportunity right right um because the nfl's track record with hiring black coaches is abysmal it does become a conversation about race not entirely but from what i'm hearing from you like you're not even're not even, maybe you'll be there later on it. But the first, the thing at the front of the concern is all the things you just laid out. Yeah. Like I didn't even like, honestly, like racing didn't pop in my mind because it's like, for me, like think about the white coaches

that are aspiring to be head coaches. They got leapfrogged. Think about that. Like, yeah, it would be easy for me to jump to the, you know, black coaches. But what about the white coaches who've been busting their tail and looking for that opportunity? and hire a guy who was a consultant to come in and say, oh, by the way, this guy who has never coached in the pros, who's never coached in college, only has limited experience in high school, he's your boss. Like, I want people to think about that for a second. So this sounds like you would be pissed if you were on this team now. If you were a player on this team, you would be pissed.

Well, I mean, yeah, I would because is the owner really giving us an opportunity to win? I mean, think about it. Seriously, throw out relationships and all of that and just look at this for what it is. Is the owner really, truly giving us an opportunity to win football games in the middle of a season with a guy who has zero coaching experience, none. You tell me. That would be tough. That would be tough. We had talked about this not that long ago on this podcast. We were doing life advice at the end and somebody was asking about trying to break through and work in basketball. And I said, originally when I started 20 years ago, I wanted to work for a team. I met with the GM, I don't know, 2003. And I just said, how do you break in? He wasn't doing anything for me, but he was nice enough. Actually, he was doing a lot for me. He

was getting a lunch with some nobody and telling me how he broke into the business. And he said to me, recruit owners, recruit owners. And I'm thinking to myself, dude, I'm like 26, how am I going to actually get into the world? Because whoever it is, younger guys are going to have money later on. You need to work that relationship. And of course, Jeff having an absolutely remarkable career with this franchise. It's somebody that Jim would know, and they kept in touch, and there were all these different things. So when it happened, I thought, is this perhaps an owner going, hey, we've tried a couple different things.

We're on this second GM where we feel like Ballard's far better than Grigson. We've tried the rental quarterback thing three times now. I'm not sure about the roster. I'm not sure about the roster. I'm not sure about the staff. Can I bring in somebody I've had a two-decade-long relationship with, both as a player and a friend? Can I bring him in as a football guy, too, and go, hey, give me an honest assessment. Give me some eyes on this.

You might not even have the job after this year. I wondered if that was part of it, but I knew if that would have been my first reaction, sit at some sort of tweet, I'd be then taking the side of what is a very abnormal hire. If not like so unique, there's not really another category for it. And let me add this. I think Jeff is going to have a job beyond this year. add this. I think Jeff is going to have the job beyond this year. I think he will because Jim Irsay alluded

to it in the press conference that basically, I would like to see him have the job beyond the eight games that we have left this season. Obviously, you've got to bring the Rooney rule into this whole situation, but listen, we know how that works. We've heard stories, you know, sham

interviews and owners, you know, eventually works. We've heard stories, sham interviews, and owners eventually hire the guy that they're comfortable with. I can totally see Jeff Saturday having this job beyond this season. What's important with coaching? Seriously, put us in the locker room. What's important when you guys are talking about, hey, this guy gets it or this guy's fucking it up? when you guys are talking about,

hey, this guy gets it or this guy's fucking it up? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is you got to be, number one, you got to be a leader of men. Like, I always say you can't fool the players. Players smell BS. You got to be a good leader of men and you got to get guys to buy into what you're selling. I played under coaches who were great. X O's, a la Bill Belichick.

I played under coaches that necessarily weren't the greatest X and O's, but they were very good. They had very good leadership qualities. So it really just depends. At the end of the day, Can he get not only the coaches, but the players to buy into what he's selling? That's a big part of this whole thing because you're, you're a,

you're a CEO, you're a CEO of this whole operation. How does the coach screw that up then? Um, I would say by not hiring the right, the right people to execute your vision. Because so much of coaching also is, you know, as a head coach, you got to delegate, but you got to get the right teachers. See, coaching is about teaching as well.

So when you don't have the right teachers to teach the scheme and the philosophy and all those type of things that's where you screw up would there be a chance then this will be kind of the last thing on this i'm going to do some other stuff but like is there a chance because we both know jeff you know he's impossible to dislike it's correct he is one of my favorite dudes I've met at that place you know other than working together there's an occasional text maybe once every six months and it's always funny sometimes it's mean but it's funny mean you know like he just has a way this country guy this this just way about him but again that's it you can have the coolest personality as soon as you expose yourself like he's going in with such a deficit right he's going into a spot where the players Just weigh about him. But again, you can have the coolest personality as soon as you expose yourself.

He's going in with such a deficit, right? He's going into a spot where the players, the vets are waiting for this guy that already doesn't have enough equity with them to kind of expose himself. I just wonder the best way to address it. If you just go and say, hey, I know this is screwed up. I know this doesn't seem fair for a bunch of different reasons, but I'm not going to lie to you. We're going to be straight up. We're going to be straight up. We're going to try to win some games here.

I just wonder if there's a way to win over that group of his personality in a very short amount of time so that he can make up for the doubts that are already there waiting for him. I think your work ethic, guys are going to look at you to see how you're going about your business. They want to see how organized and prepared you are. And so, you know, I think also thing is with Jeff coming in with zero experience, they're going to always look at him and compare him to other coaches that those guys probably

had and see how he measures up and all that type of stuff. So there's going to be a lot of things going on that the players are going to be watching to see how Jeff goes about his business. We'll shift to the open. I did a college football ranking system for the NFL teams as if I had to pick my final four. It's based on resume.

Where are your good wins? How bad are your losses? Some statistical stuff. Strength of schedule came into play here so i'm going to share it with you and then i can tell you the two i left out all right i went i went buffalo one i put undefeated philly two i put the chiefs three i put minnesota four i felt like i owed it to minnesota with that record even if i may like baltimore better than them um and baltimore i think is going to end up jumping them based on some schedule stuff that with that record, even if I may like Baltimore better than them.

And Baltimore, I think, is going to end up jumping them based on some schedule stuff that I was looking at there. All right, so those are my four. What do you think? I think Minnesota, I think of the four, Minnesota is the one that I'm kind of eh. All right, who would you replace them with? To me, I think when it's all said and done, I think Baltimore is going to be better than them.

Yeah. I think Baltimore is like, I think when it's all said and done, I think Baltimore's going to be better than them. I think Baltimore is like... Baltimore, to me, is trending up. Baltimore's trending up. I think... I think Miami is a team that is trending up as long

as Tua stays healthy. I just feel like Minnesota still has some work to do. I had Baltimore fifth and Dallas sixth because I was doing, I was kind of like looking at it as maybe I should have treated Dallas like the Texas Longhorns. You're like, well, you were as if you had been there the whole season because Dak hadn't played six of the games. You know what? well, you were as if you had been there the whole season because Dak hadn't played six of the games. You know what? Actually, I want to amend something. I think, you know, I mentioned

Miami and everybody talks about Miami because obviously the offense and all that type of stuff, but Dallas has a brand that travels. Think about it. So you're going bowl game philosophy that they'll sell a lot of tickets? No.

What do you saying? No, I'm talking about their style. Their style. Yeah, because they got a really good – I mean, they do travel now. Like, Goblet fans are everywhere. But I'm talking about their style of football travels. Like, their style of football can take you deep into the postseason because they have elite defense and they can run the football.

We're not even talking about Dak and him getting better as the week goes on. So Dallas should be right up there in the mix too. Do you think Jerry Jones keeps saying Ezekiel Elliott will only go as far as Zeke goes because he paid him so much more money than everybody else would have? Pollard's the better back.

I mean, I know Zeke's terrific blocking and everything. But this is, it feels like an owner that's justifying one of the more absurd contracts in recent NFL history. Yeah, I kind of feel the same way you do on that. Like, listen, Zeke has his value. There's no question about that. He's like, does the dirty work. He's great in blitz pickup and in the passing game. And he's great like, you know, when you're close to the goal line,

stuff like that. He's like the grunt guy. I think his biggest asset, to be honest with you, is for Tony Pollard not to have too many touches. I think he would get worn down because he's not the biggest guy. But everyone knows. I always tell people, what do your eyes tell you? Tony Paul is by far the more explosive player

between the two. Yeah, he just is. It's cool that he's healthy and all that stuff, but maybe I'm treating Zeke a little bit too much like the max NBA player, like the best player on a bad team. And you're like, you're paying that guy $35 million?

Well, let me ask you this question. He's getting Tobias Harris treatment. He is. And I guarantee you what, if the Cowboys could have got out of that contract this year, who do you think would have been gone first, him or Amari Cooper? Oh, give me a break. Yeah, Cooper would still be there. Right, exactly. The only reason Cooper's

not there is because they couldn't get out of that Zeke contract. I've got to ask about Odell Beckham Jr. There is probably something happening here where it's Odell, it's name recognition, it's the Cowboys part. They're talking it up too. And then I start to think, what's the market for him? We where it's odell it's name recognition it's the cowboys park they're talking it up too and then i start to think like well what's the market for him we know it's another

acl the original timeline was i think after the super bowl it was around this time thanksgiving but part of me is still kind of asking like why wouldn't another team had already picked him up so i'm just wondering like what's realistic about who Odell is and what he brings to a team? Yeah, listen, I had mentioned Odell with going to the Cowboys and because I figured that they need a little bit, a little bit something on the edge considering the losses that they had coming into the season. But, you know, I was talking with Dan Graziano about this. We were talking about this whole this subject. And Dan brought up a good point. He was like, if Odell was healthy, wouldn't teams be able to try to sign him right now? Like, no one's brought him in for a visit.

No one's brought him in for a visit. He hasn't signed with anyone. Shouldn't that be a tale? People don't believe that he's truly, like, back from the ACL. He's had, like, back-to-back ACLs, something like that. He's had two ACL injuries. So I don't know if an expectation that O'Dell's going to be able to come in and he's going to be this explosive guy that all of a sudden is going to give you

real juice on the outside for any team coming down the stretch. juice on the outside for any team coming down the stretch. Yeah, and I guess the latest update is that he said he wasn't going to be ready for Thanksgiving, so maybe that's what everybody's holding out on. So, you know, just to be fair to Odell on it. The Rodgers story, I'll just tell you I enjoy. And I don't know if you'll be, you're a pretty honest guy, so maybe you will be. I got so sick of the Rodgers stuff just because i my point with him and russell wilson has always been that you don't have it nearly as bad as you're trying to make it

out to be okay and rogers specifically like the lack of trust all right give us an indication you have no problem putting all your teammates on blast every fucking week but if you want me to know that you've had such a bad time and you've been betrayed, why? Because they didn't keep all these vets that were kind of on the way out anyway. They didn't just sign your buddies to the team. And this team is really good every single year. Of course, 2002 or 2022, not necessarily working out. But in recent history, you're winning double-digit games every single season. They change the coach out for you. All right, so fine. You have it so bad. And then, by the way, when you're trying to go fake retire and threaten to go host Jeopardy unless they bring in more dudes, and then Devontae Adams may have left

more so to play with Carr again, but because he was uncertain about your whole deal, so that's not entirely making you blame. There's just been so many parts of the story for two years where I'm like, I just don't have any sympathy for you so then i'll admit even if

the younger receivers are wrong about being pissed about being scapegoated because i've read other stuff where they've been like rogers is actually right like on that play he was right and rogers was right about this one there's drop here and there i just liked it was coming back to him i just did maybe it's unfair but like because of how i feel about rogers at this point i laughed when i read the story and i was like good yeah yeah man it's just like all this roger stuff just feeds my soul like i love laughing about it and having a good you know it's a good joke and all that type of stuff but it's like dude this organization have capitulated at every turn to make your ass happy. Like every turn, like they bent over backwards to make sure that your ego is stroked along the way at every turn. And so. Also, this dude is not playing well.

Like, I don't know how many times he's, you know, on the on the Mac show he talked about every other word was me I me me me me I I I and I'm like are you using me and I as it relates to how you're playing because right now you're playing like shit to be honest with like you're not playing well as much you want to talk about

you know your young wide receivers and all these guys on the outside not holding up their hand. Bro, you need to take a look at it. I hope you're looking at the tape because that last game against Detroit, dude, you played like shit. So I don't want to hear any bitching and crying

about everything else when you need to take a look in the mirror yourself at how you've been playing football. Yeah, I just don't understand when you have new guys coming in where you go, well, I'm just not going to go to OTAs. I remember during one of the CBA hangups, didn't he post a video of himself in a Jeep or something

talking about how he shouldn't have to come to practice? It's like, you know what? It's great when the established guys that already have all this money in the bank are talking about, I don't want to do any of these things. It's like, I don't know. I feel like you're such a small sliver of the 1500 players like those guys the majority of the populace here is is not aligned with you and it just felt very like self-serving and then to see him not be on the same page and look they've had a ton of injuries

um i don't think he was wrong in some of his criticisms when you go back and look at some of the washington stuff from that game but then off of the detroit game you go you know i don't think he was wrong in some of his criticisms when you go back and look at some of the Washington stuff from that game. But then off of the Detroit game, you go, you know, I don't really know. Like, all right, cool. You're going to go and bitch about everybody again. But at some point, like, do you ever take any blame on any of this? But you know what, Ryan? I always say, man, like championships are won in the offseason.

Like, you don't just roll out and roll into the season and then, oh, okay, let's just go out here and play ball. No, like, you win championships with all the reps and the things you do in the offseason, whether it be OTAs, minicamp, training camp. That's where you win. That's where you win at. And so you got all these new guys, young receivers coming in, and you're not even at these offseason programs

to try to build some chemistry with these guys. And then you get upset during the season when guys aren't where they're supposed to be and all the time. Like, nobody wants to hear that. Nobody wants to hear those excuses. Yeah, I don't. I don't. You know, like, hey, man, sorry they drafted Jordan Love.

Like, hey, Russell Wilson. Like, sorry some scouts went to watch Josh Allen throw fucking football one afternoon. Right. You know? Yeah, right. You should have heard Woody when they brought in Menkins. I'm just kidding. Hey, they can say whatever.

Hey, it's good. Good for them. Were you gone? You were gone by then, weren't you? I was gone. I was gone. I'm just kidding. I would love,

I would have loved to have been buddies with you when you were playing for the Pats just to give you the worst advice to say shit to the media. Be like, you know, you're going out there and you're this damn copping cat. Like, what are you trying to do to my,

I'm trying to feed my family um that would have been terrible but i just think it'd be funny if a guard or somebody would act like a quarterback every now and then just for the jokes just for the part of it where it'd be like this is disrespectful that you're gonna go visit another guards pro day i've been here three years you just wanted you just wanted somebody to mix it up up there you just wanted, you just wanted somebody to mix it up up there. Yeah.

Cause Bill, the robotic. Yeah. Like I get Bill's point. I'll check. Like he was smart. Get everybody in line. Scare the shit out of everybody. You know,

less hassle for me. Right. Like he wasn't, he wasn't doing you the favor. He was avoid, he was doing him. So he was like HR. He was the head coach and HR.

You damn right. He basically told horse fetters what to say. Just say this and we'll be fine. But the great thing is because he'd had Bruschi, because he'd had McGinnis, because he'd had these Ted Johnson, he'd had these guys that were just buying in. And then you show up and you're like, I have a little personality. I got some shit to say. And it's like, no, you don't.

No, you don't. No, you don't, Rook. You're going to follow this company line and that's going to be that. And that's what happened. Good catching up. Yeah, man. Appreciate you. Jeff Perlman, author, joins us. He's written about the Lakers.

He's written about the Cowboys. I think his USFL book might be my favorite out of all of them. And he just finished a new biography on Bo Jackson, the last folk hero. And it's perfect because I think a lot of us that grew up around the same time, everybody liked Bo Jackson. There was never a person that was neutral about it. It was the coolest thing ever. I remember being a kid and being obsessed about Bo Jackson. I was fired up to read this book, man. Thanks for doing this. How are you? I'm good. Bo Jackson was the Walter

Berry of Bo Jackson. Don't get me going on Walter Berry sitting on top. Because when I think about St. John's and Walter Berry, I think about Sports Illustrated covers and then the bold move Bo, 1986. And all of us back then going, why is he doing this? And it was a good reminder of why he actually ended up playing baseball first and then doing both. So let's get to it. I like to go over the timeline.

There's a bunch of things. Take it wherever you want to go. The stories are encouraged, but I think it's very important to understand him as a man, as an adult and the decisions that he made later on. It's best to start with his childhood. What was his childhood like in Bessemer? Terrible. He was one of 11. He had a single mom. His dad lived across town with his family. So he was married when he procreated Bo and lived across town, didn't have much to do with Bo. Bo slept on the floor in a three-room house

with a tar paper roof, no running water. There was an outhouse that you had to go to off the property or over in the property. Severe, severe stutter, held back in school, wore his sister's hand-me-down shoes to school, and sometimes wore socks to school. Was a major, major bully in school. Just beat the crap out of kids. Was always getting in trouble.

And his nickname, Bo, his real name is Vincent Edwards. He's named for an actor, Vincent Edwards, from Ben Casey. But his nickname, Bo, comes from when he was 12 years old, him and a bunch of friends went to the neighboring farmer's house with sticks and decided they were going to devote themselves to killing the biggest boar hog on the farm. And they spent days, just three days, beating the crap out of the biggest hog coming back the next day, beating them up again, beating them up again. They got caught, they got in trouble. And Bo's name went from Vincent Edwards to Bo, which is short for boar hog, boar hog. Yeah. That was real Lord of the Rings shit when I was reading that part. I'm like,

imagine doing it and then being like, Hey, make sure we go back to the farm today and do it the next time. I think it's important though, because you mentioned he stays back because of the stutter, but he was actually pretty smart. And yet no one thought he was because of the way he spoke. And he'd also had a weird birthday. So we're talking about somebody that is arguably

like two years ahead of everybody in age and certainly far beyond that physically. And he was a rough kid who likely was taking it out on other people because of his own issues of seeing his real dad, knowing his real dad has a family and kids he's paying attention to while he's by himself all the time. Oh man, it was scarring for him. And for years, I think his issues, I think his issues, I think you can go one or two ways when that kind of thing happens to you. You're either motivated by it or you become it. And he looked at his dad across town

and he saw his dad showing up every once in a while with a gift or coming to a game for five minutes and really said, I'm not going to be this guy. Like, I'm not going to be this guy. And he didn't become him. He actually was. And I think it's funny you say this, no one has brought this up in all of the interviews I've done for this. Like I grew up in Mayo pack, New York, and there was a kid, Mike Abbott, and he was always the best athlete, right? You always have this kid. He's the best athlete,

but then cause he grows, he's five, six, whatever else is like four, three, but then everyone catches up. And Bo Jackson, not only was the best athlete, but was a year older than all these kids. But he just actually, he wasn't Mike Abbott, who we all caught up to. He actually was Bo Jackson, the great athlete. So he was a physical freak already. And he was a year older than these kids. So it is funny. Like he wants back-to-back state decathlon championships, um, at McAdory high, which

is actually insane. And he, um, he won his second year as a senior in high school. He never took his sweatpants off during the meet. He literally ran the entire decathlon in sweats, sprained his ankle, was so far ahead, he didn't have to run the 1500. He was already a freak of freak athletes. And by the way, he's a year older than all of you. Yeah. I don't know. Everybody hears about that guy, right? There's always the guy from the town. And did you hear what this guy does? And then you read these stories with him and he really is this real life superhero. And let's go to those origins of him figuring out what kind of athlete he's going to be. Because I'd seen the documentaries on him and the Legend of Bo and all these different things.

But you're still not sure where he's going with any of this. He's playing baseball and he's doing some ridiculous thing. The football thing for him was late. And it's like, okay, I guess I can go do this. But the decathlon stuff and the track stuff, he's not fast. If he decided to slim down and train we're talking olympic type speed but the absurdity is that he's running these low four like he's he's timed at like four ones in the 40 at 225 pounds like this isn't this is so beyond

normal of who he is it was a nice reminder of like, no, no, no. This is why this was so insane. Yeah. It's way. I always say this. Like he really, he went, he went to the Raiders and they clocked him in the 40 on grass in pads and he runs a 419 and they don't believe him and they have him do it again. And he runs a 417 wearing pads like Tyreek Hill, who he outweighed by probably 40 pounds, does not run a 4-1-7-40.

His first Major League at-bat against the White Sox in 1986, he's facing Steve Carlton. It's his first at-bat ever. He grounds to second base, beats it out for his first hit, and all the scouts are sitting behind the home plate, and Art Stewart is the Royals' chief of scouting, and he out for his first hit, and all the scouts are sitting behind the home plate, and

Art Stewart is the Royals' chief of scouting, and he looks at his watch, and he says to the guy, I got this wrong. What'd you get? He's like, I got it wrong. He turns to the other guy, what'd you get? Well, I got a 3-6. I got a 3-6. I got a 3-6. It was the second fastest ever recorded time home to first by a right-handed hitter.

It just didn't make any sense. In high school baseball, he stole 90 of 91 bases he set a national single season home run record with 20 did it in 25 games missed seven games for track meets like it's just ridiculous yeah there's another story when he first shows up i want to get to this later and understanding the raiders and the NFL teammate stuff and the issues he's running into. But there's a moment where Matt Millen, they're all back. There's been this strike. There's all these roster things going on. And they're not able to close any kind of gap. They think they have the angle on them every time and Millen keeps missing. And then he's like, I can't believe this fucking scab i can't you know like my bad and they're like you idiots bo jackson oh yeah there's a coach that you're quoted here in the book you know the raiders coach is like we've been around long enough and i thought this was a great way of explaining it we've been around long enough to understand kind of the the margins i don't know if that's the right word exactly but like

what the what the bottom and what the peak is and then everybody's kind of in that group and then Bo Jackson shows up and he destroys whatever ceiling you think a human had like the capabilities that they would have on the field and I thought that was like the best way to put it to really understand that even at the NFL level a coach is going and we always hear oh he's different he's built different he said this guy is the OG of being different and it was real yeah well I, I actually think the run, the famous Monday night football run against Seattle, like there's the one where he runs over Bosworth in the same game, but he also has a 91 yard run in that game, which is where it goes in the tunnel. And the thing that's crazy. And I actually think it speaks exactly what you said.

Seven different guys on the Seahawks had angles on him, including Kenny Easley, who's a pro, who's a hall of fame safety and was very fast. He broke angles, you know, like his, um, his baseball coach at Auburn, Hal Baird said, he just changed the dimensions of a field. Like the dimensions did not contain him. Dimensions are made. We have these dimensions because they're supposed to contain athletes that you can't go beyond those. Well, he actually, he played the first night game when he was at Auburn on the baseball team his junior year. The University of Georgia hosted the first night game in Georgia's history

and they hosted Auburn. He's both playing right field. The fans are just letting him have it because it's the Herschel-Bowe thing. There's a dog game. First at bat, flies out. They boo the crap out of him. They mock him. Second at bat, first night game. This the crap out of him. They mock him. Second at bat, first night game.

This is 39 days before the natural comes out in theaters. He hits a ball that slams into the lights and falls down. Stadium goes silent. He jogs back out to right field, and the people start bowing at him like this. His next at bat, he homers. The at bat after that, he homers again. He doubles in his last at bat, anders the at bat after that he homers again he doubles in his last at bat and the fans of Georgia boo him

it's just ridiculous he's this big time recruit it's very clear he's not going to move that far away from his mom how does it land on Auburn instead of Alabama well a couple of things number one

he definitely there was a booster a local booster who was definitely working hard for Auburn to get Alabama? Well, a couple of things. Number one, he definitely, there was a booster, a local booster who was definitely working hard for Auburn to get Bo to go and was, Bo talked about this in his interview sessions with Dick Schaap long ago. Definitely a booster who's kind of, you know, taking care of him to a certain degree. He also, he was recruited by everyone, didn't want to leave the state of Alabama, hadn't left the state of Alabama, but one time to go to Six Flags Atlanta. University of Alabama brought him for a visit. They said, the assistant coach named Ken Donahue said,

we think that you could be a really good player here one day, possibly on the defensive side of the ball, but you're not going to be able to start at running back at least until your sophomore or junior year. And Pat Dye trying to build a program at Auburn. Um, it's like, you come here, you have a shot to play right away. And the funny thing is the number one running back in the state of Alabama was a kid named Alan Evans out of enterprise high school. And he also came to Auburn. So for about three days in Auburn, everyone was like, we got Alan Evans. This

is amazing. Alan Evans. He's the next. Billy Sims, this guy's amazing. And then Bo Jackson just starts running everyone over, running past people. And Alan Evans wound up transferring to UT Chattanooga. The Auburn chapters are really interesting because, again, it takes me back and you're like, okay, let's go through every year. It's like, okay, they had national title

hopes. Pat Dye's taking this thing over. Like a lot of college programs, you have all these expectations. You have the one bad loss or the loss you're not supposed to have. And then it kind of takes you out of it. There's some voting in the Nebraska-Miami year where you look at it and you're like, how does Auburn get jumped by Miami when they win their bowl game? Not necessarily in spectacular fashion. And then you're like, is Bo really the guy? And then he ends up winning the Heisman. Although I think it was pretty clear he should have won the Heisman. But if you look at all the Auburn football years, there's a very strong case of people still not

quite understanding if Bowe had like entirely bought in because there've been times he'd taken himself out of big games. And now he starts getting labeled as somebody that's not necessarily tough enough as a football player. What do you think is fair about the summary of who he was at Auburn? I think it's really, I think part of that is, I don't know, you seem like you have a very good working knowledge of sports illustrated history and sort of the covers and the memory of the covers. You remember that? Grew up with it.

I mean, it's how I grew up with sports was that. So go ahead. Exact same. So I remember the Joe Dudek cover very well. And it's basically the thinking man's vote guide for the Heisman trophy. And it's three pictures. The Thinking Man's Vote Guide for the Heisman Trophy. And it's three pictures.

Bo Jackson of Auburn, Chuck Long of Iowa, and Joe Dudek of Plymouth State, Division III Plymouth State. And inside the article, Rick Riley wrote the article, the case is why Joe Dudek should win the Heisman Trophy. And honest to God, and this is not against Rick. I've known Rick for years as a guy, but it's the time. Honest to God, the argument is,

here's this scrappy white kid of Division III who works a side job and really wants it. He really wants it. And here's this big black stallion, Bo Jackson, who just doesn't play hard. And it was such garbage. Like, it really was garbage

in hindsight. I remember loving the cover at the time, being like, oh, Joe Dudek. And then you grow up and you're like, oh my God, this is the most racist trope of all time.

Bo Jackson played through internal bleeding. There was a game that he played where the day before him and two teammates went horseback riding and a horse kicked Bo's shin and the shin cracked. And he didn't tell anyone. And he plays his game with a cracked shin. Like he played and he played hard and he didn't complain, but he was so gifted that people took it for granted.

That Dudek thing really gets me going. And I love Joe Dudek. He's awesome. But like, it was ridiculous. What we didn't realize at the time, it was just the original zags. These were first take topics where they were just in written form.

So, you know, it's like the old columnist thing. Like I didn't understand the columnist was supposed to piss me off in my city once every six months. And then once I started to get to know him and then I worked in the business, I was like, oh, you just do this every now and then. And the columnist would be like, yeah, were writing the books. Were you that way too? Like I'd read Bo Jackson's autobiography and I'd be like, oh, this is Bo Jackson writing this. Or Reggie Jackson wrote this book. And then later you grow up and you're like, oh, they didn't write a thing. Yeah, of course. I mean, I didn't know any better. I'm like, who's this other?

Who's Dick Schaaf? Who's this joker? Then you're like, oh, wait. So I think there's also another like good seed planted here because you mentioned like the high school part of it where he just kind of does whatever he wants he seems to apply that same philosophy to his athletic endeavors at auburn as well uh where he just kind of does whatever he wants which I actually think became kind of like a bad precedent for him later on as a pro athlete. I think so a little bit.

That's a fair. I haven't heard that taken. I actually think that's a pretty good one is he ran track. People have asked me, like, could he have been an Olympic sprinter? And you say talent. Yeah, but he just showed up for the meets like he didn't even go to the practices. So it probably would have been hard to be an Olympic sprinter if you never practice and you're running against these greats and football.

I mean, one of the big appeals for him of playing baseball is he didn't have to do off season football workouts and he hated off season football workouts. And he would, you know, there's a million stories of him. He'll be in the weight room and he's just goofing around and everyone else is lifting weights and a coach walks by.

And all of a sudden he puts the bar on the bench and pretends he's lifting. And it's funny. I don't know if we can say it caught up with him because I think that injury was so freakish. But, you know,

he was told for years, especially by the Royals. The Royals were like over and over again, you can be a great baseball player if you focus on baseball, but you need to play instructionally. We're going to need you playing the Dominican.

We might need you to play more minor league time. And he was very resistant to any of that. And I don't think that helped his career. Okay, so let's get to the decision. Because going back to 1986, we know he's going to be the first pick in the NFL draft. The Buccaneers have the pick. And you're thinking, okay, back then you're like money.

Like, is he really going to grind in the minors? Like this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And it just was, it was unfathomable at the time. Like, wait, he's actually going to do it. And as I referenced at the top, you know, July of 86 and getting my sports illustrated and it's bold move bow. And you're like, what, what is going on? I think we've got to tell the Tampa story with the flight, but then also realize that his passion was his personality matched baseball far more than it did

football. Yeah, it definitely did. Um, he liked the laziness, not laziness. He liked the laid backness of baseball and being in the outfield and hanging on the bench and popping sunflower seeds. Like that was much more him that he was never like, we got to go out there and we got to kick ass. And like, that just wasn't him at all. Um, you know, he would, uh, I think he would have gone to the NFL happily and maybe never even played baseball, but he's a senior at Auburn.

He's on the baseball senior at Auburn. He's on the baseball team at Auburn and, um, and the, the, uh, the Buccaneers fly him to Tampa for a physical and somehow they suggest it's okay. He flies his baseball coaches like where's Bo. And, uh, someone's like, yeah, he flew to Tampa. He did what he flew to Tampa to get a physical with the Bucs and how Bair reported it to Pat Dye. Pat Dye reported it to the SEC. Now, it's so ridiculous because 98% of these guys are getting paid. It's ridiculous that they

punished Bo Jackson for this, but his eligibility was over. So the Buccaneers, Lehman Bennett's the coach of the Bucs. They're 2-14. And just to jump in, he's ineligible because Tampa provided the plane, flew him down, and Bo at the time didn't even think he was doing anything

wrong. He was obviously getting bad information. Go ahead. Not for nothing, Bo had an agent who gave him the bad information. Bo later on was really mad at his agent for setting this up. You also couldn't have an agent at the time. It's a lot of sketchy stuff there.

It's still ridiculous that the SEC ended his eligibility with all the crap that was going on. So there's a little like, you know, it's a lot of like sketchy stuff there, but it's still ridiculous that the SEC ended his eligibility with all the crap that was going on. So, you know, the SEC had the worry you couldn't be professional in one sport, amateur in another. So the Buccaneers still draft him number one, even though Bo is obviously furious with the Bucs. And Lehman Bennett was the coach of the Bucs. And he said to you, Culverhouse, the owner, are you sure we can sign him? And Culverhouse was like, I'm going to throw more money at this guy

than he's ever seen before. So the draft comes, they draft him number one. Bo is in New York. He refuses to hold up a Bucs jersey, but he shakes Roselle's hand. And his agents say, you should at least fly to Tampa and meet with the team. So he flies to Tampa.

And one of my favorite stories in the book is Steve Young told me this. Steve Young was a quarterback of the Bucs at the time. And Culverhouse decides he's going to wind and dine Bo. And Steve, will you come along and help me recruit? All right. So they go out to a steakhouse and Culverhouse excuses himself. And Bo Jackson says to, Steve Young says, so what do you think? And Bo Jackson's like, I'm never fucking signing here. Just so you know, there's no chance I'm ever coming here. And Steve Young is like, all right, I guess my work is done here. The next day, Bo was taken fishing by a bunch of players. And they actually said the same thing. Scott Brantley,

who was a linebacker at the Bucs, was like, we'd love to have you here, but this place is a shit show. You don't want to come here. So he hated the Bucs anyway. He loved his visit to Kansas City. The Royals drafted him in the fourth round. They had these long negotiations. Bo's agent, basically, Bo was napping in the next room. And Bo's agent said to the owner of the Royals, he said,

I think he really would be moved to be the first millionaire. He wants to be a millionaire. So they were offering like $980,000. And the Royals said, if we make it a million, do you think he'll sign? And the agent's like,

I really do. So he signed for like a million ten dollars and became a royal so he plays in memphis um clearly it's all understood that he's going to get called up um because he's bo jackson even if he's not ready and you're absolutely right like when you remember him as a player you were like, what about the cutoff guy? It kind of reminded me like some of the Yasuo Puig stuff when we first saw him. Not to say that's the exact same thing, but it was like, look at all this raw talent.

Look what he's able to do. And then after a while, it starts to piss everybody off because you're like, wait, like, what are you doing? Do you not realize like this? There was a play one time where like, he didn't understand the base running of it. That was like really simple stuff. And you're going, how do you not know this? But it's kind of his whole approach. How bad was the resentment though with the major league level once he showed up in Kansas

City? Well, one of his first acts in Kansas City when he initially signs with the team is he brings a stack of signed photos of him with the Heisman Trophy and literally walks around the Royals clubhouse, putting them on the seats one by one, thinking all the Royals are going to love an autographed Bo Jackson photo. And these are guys, this is like Jim Sundberg and George Brett and Frank White and Hal McRae, who's 40 at that point. And Hal McRae is following him around the clubhouse, taking the photos, throwing them in the air. All of a sudden, all the guys are throwing them in the air. It was a very, very bad first impression. And they kind of came to like Bo.

Bo was a prickly guy. He's very difficult. He's also kind of stubborn. He would shoot his arrows across the clubhouse. He would set a target up on the far end of the clubhouse and shoot arrows. And teammates didn't understand, why are you didn't understand why are you doing this? Like, why are you doing this?

But he was one of those guys kind of like a Barry Bonds to a certain degree. There are other guys, David Wells with the Yankees was like this, where people kind of didn't feel that comfortable approaching him and being like, hey, Bo, could you maybe not shoot arrows across the clubhouse? He also wasn't very, he wasn't very gregarious. He wasn't great about signing autographs for teammates. He wouldn't sign a baseball item for football teammates. He wouldn't sign a football item for baseball

teammates. Weirdly, neither the Royals nor the Raiders had his phone number. He would show up, but he did not give them his number. He was just prickly. It's kind of a word. A little time goes by and the Raiders end up taking them and there had been

some story where Bo had told somebody on the Raiders and he ran into said hey tell Al Davis you know whatever what I don't I don't know if we come to a real conclusion so this is a double barreled ask here but it's really the only way I can think of doing it. Did he play both sports because he wanted to, or did he play both sports because he wanted to be the guy that Nike was going to build an entire campaign around? That's a great question. I would say it's honestly, I know people use this as a cop out a little bit of both.

He definitely, the thing about Bo that I kind of admire, I definitely admire. He really, really really really liked not just proving people wrong but sort of showing look you guys don't think I can do this I can do this I can do this

I know I can do this I'm going to do this and you guys are going to be like oh he was right the whole time like there's something in his makeup and in his mind where he really enjoyed that like he loved that the Buccaneers thought, of course, he's going to sign. We're going to throw more money at him, so he's going to sign with us. And he's like, nope, I'm not going to sign with you. In fact, you've now made it a certainty I'm not going to sign with you because I'm not

that guy. That being said, Nike threw a shitload of money at Bo Jackson. They had this shoe, the cross trainer. Their endorsers at that point were Howie Long and a triathlete nobody had heard of and it was a perfect perfect marriage and they really did push his agents and said look if this guy if he's willing to play both sports this is just this could be an amazing thing so i think he would have done it either way but the nike push certainly was a factor you're definitely right about that if there is one theme that is hammered home and the part i admire the most about him is that like don't you ever tell me i can't do something and then to be

able to pull it off to levels that are basically impossible you know i thought the dion stuff was kind of interesting too where it was like no no no i'm not supportive of you like fuck off get off of my corner like that was that was pretty revealing yeah it's actually funny um i just had a guy ask me on a radio interview does bo still hate dion and i'm like no that was so long ago he doesn't care but like at the time you know i think a lot of athletes are like this maybe a lot of performers like this they they put off this thing like, no, I don't care. I'm just, you know, I don't care. I don't like the press. I don't even like the press. But then if you're not talking about them or you start talking about someone

else, they don't like that either. And that was kind of Bo Jackson. Like he was, he was kind of a jerk to the media. He wasn't that giving with the media. He would make you wait. He knew you were waiting. Um, but then Dion comes along and he's the flashy new toy wasn't that giving with the media. He would make you wait. He knew you were waiting. But then Deion comes along and he's the flashy new toy. And he shows up with the Yankees in 89 and he's super cocky and super flamboyant. And he's wearing all the jewelry. And there's a moment he shows up. They gave him Willie Randolph was the Yankee second baseman. He just went to the Dodgers and the Yankees gave Deion Sanders Willie's number 30. And the Yankee players like, what is this bullshit? Like this guy is the anti Willie Randolph and Bo Jackson watching from afar just has no stomach for it. Like it's really the cockiness is what drove him sort of crazy.

So he starts taking shots in the media, Deion. And he's like, that's not the way you should behave. I don't appreciate that at all. You should let your actions carry. And Deion's like, who's this old man bashing me? He wasn't that old, but why is he bad? Why does this guy have a problem with me? And they start going back and forth, back and forth. And if you hear them, Beau was on Dion's podcast a bunch of years ago.

And they're both like, oh, the media made that up. Well, the media didn't make it up. The quotes are right there. And the words were all there. It was very sincere and very pointed. Yeah, he wanted to be, he was special. And all of a sudden he wasn't quite as special. It feels like the Raiders hated his part-time role far more than his Royals teammates did the 8x10s.

Yeah, well, I would say that in order, the Royal players hated it the most. Like the Royal players really hated it. There were guys in that, Willie Wilson in particular, was very resentful of the treatment Bo got. A lot of these guys had clauses in their contract that they couldn't play basketball, pick up basketball.

They couldn't go water skiing. But we're just going to let this guy play in the NFL. And they were mad because he really needed work. He was supposed to be a guy who was in the instructional league. He was playing in the Dominican. He needed that time. And all of a sudden, now he's just going to play football instead.

Raider teammates hated that he came in and he's like, this is my hobby. You know, like that was, that did not go over well. And that was a rough thing to overcome. Like, this is your hobby? No. And the other one who really didn't like him grew to dislike him. His presence was actually Al Davis. It was Al Davis loved Bo Jackson initially in many ways because he hated

Marcus Allen. And this was basically a middle finger to Marcus Allen, but Al Davis did not like people becoming stars and spotlight players. Um, if you think about the Raiders, the most famous Raiders, Al Davis himself. and he almost,

you know, 89 Tony Manders holding out after being picked number two by the packers and now davis calls the packers and offers a swap of bo jackson for the rights the number two pick and uh the green bay packers turned it down because tony manders is going to be amazing just to remind everybody here too because like if you if you go back and look at the stats you might be like whatever like why are you guys doing this? The important part about baseball is to not see live pitching. That's why I still think Josh Hamilton's

success after four years off, if not exactly CrossFit, is one of the most impressive things I've ever seen, I think, in sports. For Bo to have that season, I think when he's 26 and he makes the all-star team, and you look at those numbers, you're like, if he had just stayed at this, this might have been a really special player by his

late 20s at 30 years old. And then to look at the football numbers, but realize it's a shortened season. He doesn't understand any of the playbook, not because he doesn't understand it. He doesn't care to understand it. He doesn't know anything that's going on. And it's like, oh, actually I'm just going to break all of these tackles. He was actually really good if you consider all the factors in both sports. And the Raiders part of it, when you're going back and telling these stories,

it can be very dismissive to go on Football Reference and look at the game log. That does not tell the story of how special it was, what he was able to do. I actually, I can't say I got mad, but I did an interview recently game log that does not tell the story of how special it was what he was able to do i actually i i can't say i got mad but i did an interview recently where the guy's like i'm looking at both football numbers and they weren't really that good he only ran for 800 i'm like he averaged 5.1 yards a carry like he ran four different times for 90 yard touchdown runs like he he was ridiculous

in football but he just didn't have the time and like you're right like there was a play um and they just called it bow reverse and it was a play when the the play is famous because he ran over mike harden of the broncos like just destroyed mike harden's great run and it's basically bow takes a handoff takes three steps right turns around and goes the other way and they put that in the playbook because bow screwed it up earlier but it worked in practice like it wasn't supposed to be a reverse but bow didn't know the play so they put that into playbook because Bo screwed it up earlier but it worked in practice like it wasn't supposed to be a reverse but Bo didn't know the play so they put it in as Bo reverse they just made it up because he didn't know it

you know he was sleeping in the back during meetings he hated he hated football meetings like hated football meetings hated all the chat hated all the chatter um I think what we saw in football is what he could have been like I think he could have been, if he did what he did in those 11 games over 16, he's Jim Brown. I think what we saw in baseball

was a taste of what he could have been. If he had ever devoted himself fully to baseball, he's Mike Trout, Mickey Mantle, Clemente level, talent-wise at least. But I don't know if he ever was going to devote himself to it that way. things before we finish i had almost take a break before the hip injury chapter because i was going to be sad all over again and then i was kind of like hey you're old now like why why is this going to bother you the way it bothered you so much when you're a kid i was so bummed out again i've never given a shit about actually i hated the royals because i always felt like they would beat the red socks far more than they should and you know, I didn't care about the Raiders until I started getting into like rap and thinking the hats were cool. Right. So the injury happens. They're not really sure

what's going on. It's he's actually so strong and fast and powerful that his, his ability, his special powers actually made the injury more damaging as you know you see the play and somebody catches up behind uh and then he goes through this this run of of rehabbing and now actually working out in a way he's never done before it's sad and i don't know that there's some i don't want to turn it into a lesson i don't want to turn it like oh you know he's taking all these things for granted and this is what happens like i don't think it's carmel okay because he was prickly and didn't sign autographs. Like that's, that's far too big of a price to pay. If anybody were to try to play that kind of dramatic arc out about the story, it's just, it was, it was surprising to me how I had this moment where I was

bummed out again, all over again, you know, 30 years later. And I was really surprised 30 plus years later. Yeah. Um, I don't view it as sad. It was sad to write about. It's sad to say it's sad because you know like david cohen's quote was bo jackson was zeus walking down from the mountain and actually in order reminds me of since we're in the same age range it reminds me of superman 2 the movie superman 2 where he goes into the booth and he loses his power and then he gets his ass kicked in a diner by some trucker. I hated that scene.

Yeah, I hate that scene. And that's basically what happened to Bo Jackson. He was Superman and he's running down and Kevin Walker of the Bengals basically put him in the booth and had him lose his powers. And all of a sudden, there was a scene, I mean, you read the book, there's a scene, he comes to spring training. He basically played with the White Sox in 91 with a hip injury. And 92, he's hoping that all these exercises and strengthening will make him able to play without getting a hip replacement. And he's in spring training, and the White Sox are playing the Tigers.

And he hits a grounder to short. And Cecil Fielder's playing first. And Bowe is hobbling down the line, you know, like he's dragging luggage. It's just so sad. And Cecil Fielder puts his hands up and says, don't throw the ball. Don't throw the ball. This is too sad. Don't do it.

And those moments were crushing, just crushing. Okay, last thing. I'm going to ask it this way. Is he the most boring, interesting person of all time? That's pretty interesting.

I mean, I'll put it this way. You could flip it too. He might be the most interesting, boring person. If you think about the marketing campaign, Bo knows, he says nothing in those ads. He doesn't say anything. The Bo knows ad, the famous Bo knows ad, the greatest maybe sports ad of all time with all those guys. Like he doesn't say anything. The Bo knows that the famous Bo knows that the greatest, maybe sports ad of all time with all those guys,

Bo knows baseball, Bo knows football, Bo knows, you know, he doesn't say a word. He doesn't say a word. He's not boring because he's not dumb and he is introspective, but he's incredibly guarded,

like incredibly guarded. So getting in and cracking that show, like Roger Clemens was a much more boring human being than Bo Jackson. If I had to rank books I've written, Clemens is by far the most boring guy I've ever written about. Bo is interesting,

but he's so protective and so cocooned that you have to really work to crack through. He didn't care if you wrote this book. He didn't want you to write this book. I know you talked to him. He, uh, he told me he was firing me writing it, but he wasn't going to help. Now I always say, then you interview 720 people and all of a sudden you're Bo Jackson and like your high school catchers calling you and saying, Hey, I just got this call. All of a sudden the woman who sold you a house is calling you and saying, Hey, I just got this call. I don't know.

That's always, I think a little weird, but he was nice when I talked to him. He was, he wasn't a jerk about it. So I don't know. Yeah. I don't know that any of us,

if somebody decided I'm going to bang out 450 pages on your entire life, like you're going to go really like I, you know, like, and somebody, but honestly, he doesn't come off as bad. He doesn't come off as bad. He doesn't come off as bad.

It just comes off as a guy that really wanted to keep to himself and, you know, was kind of like a really odd combination of arrogant and humble. Oh, yeah. But I don't think it's that odd because I just think a lot of athletes, I think they try to put off humble. I'm not saying he's not humble. I think he, for athletes, he is fairly humble. I think there's a real effort to make sure you see how humble people are when he knows how good he was and he knows what he did and he knows how explosive he was and he knows his place in pop culture. I mean, he, um, someone told me I did a signing last night in LA and a guy told me he went to a signing recently with, you know,

the famous Bo Jackson poster, the ball player with the baseball bat yeah of course and he said Bo will not sign that poster because he's not making money he doesn't he didn't make any money off of it he said so he doesn't sign it and I was thinking you're six years old this is your most famous image by far you're financially secure it says something about you I don't quite know what it says about you, but it says something about you that some 50-year-old nerd like me is coming up to you with a Sharpie and I paid 30 bucks to be at this autograph show and 100 bucks to get your autograph and you won't sign the poster. There's something that struck me last night about that where I'm like, that is kind of a weird way to be. Right. It's the full scope and it's not nearly as important of a slice of the rest of the story

from what this guy did. Great book. As always, man, you've been hitting them out of the park now for I don't know how many books in a row. So we appreciate the time. Thank you so much. Every Friday, we do our picks. Again, the rule that we've decided, Kyle, right, is Cerruti just has to maybe pick an entire board one day. I can't wait. How many weeks he's got. I've heard February.

Is it going to be a new sport by then? Or does he have to pick a bunch of Super Bowl props? Like, he'll have to do seven props for the Super Bowl. That'd be funny. If that's the only game left. Honestly, I wouldn't be mad if he had to pick a million NBA games in a week. Right.

He just has to play every game just to make up the numbers so we'll know who won this thing. Your Honor, Your Honor. I've got... I won last week, by the way I took like a super vanilla bet and I don't think I'll do that again unless I get unless I go

this one goes poorly you're abandoning vanilla theory already after one week and a winner yeah yeah I mean because what's the point I mean you just you pick two like you know not so not so hot teams like I think it's going under I don't know that just doesn't seem fun so I'm going back to the bedroom poster be like, I think it's going under. I don't know. That just doesn't seem fun.

So I'm going back to the bedroom poster parlay because I think it's going to be another week or two before I don't have any feelings towards the Cleveland Browns. So I'm going to take the Browns, plus 3.5 versus Miami, over 49.5. Browns pretty much score between 23 and 25 points every game this season. So Cleveland, plus 3.5, over 49.5, that's plus 231. I think it'll be a close loss for the Browns.

And hey, maybe they'll even win. Okay, I have to do, remember, married to the game, you can't date it. Fading the public bets. Loser so far, halfway through the NFL season. Try to implement a new system for the listeners. Make sure you hammer that promo code R-Y-E-N. So I'm going to throw out a bonus,

which I have not done yet. I'm going to do the system play and then I'm going to do the gut play. So give me Lions, Lions football. Give me plus three at Chicago. Everybody loves fields right now. I actually feel this is a good fade to public play. I like this one as opposed to some other weeks.

And then give me the Cardinals minus one at home. Excuse me. Give me the Rams minus one at home against the Arizona Cardinals. So to keep the Cardinals streak at three straight weeks of playing their games. Just something. Just feeling it. So to keep the Cardinals streak at three straight weeks of playing their games, this is something. Just feeling it. So we get a system play, we get a field play. So those are two picks for you?

Yeah, I just threw an extra pick in there. So Rudy's going to, you know, he'll have to bet another Phoenix game or something. Okay. All right. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice.

The email for submission is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Make sure you throw a bunch at us because we're going to do probably more for the live show next week in Denver. Y'all packed up, buddy? I'm going to get packed up on Saturday. I'm going to get packed up on Saturday. Tomorrow. Not Sunday.

Not Sunday. Well, I took a... I was actually so excited. I actually kind of jammed myself up. I was so excited I booked a morning flight. So I'm so excited. I actually kind of jammed myself up. I was so excited. I booked a morning flight. So I'm arriving early. I'm leaving late on Wednesday, arriving early on Monday. Just wanted to drink it all in.

Wait, so you're just going to go to... I don't think there's been enough time spent on this. We always take Monday mornings, usually fairly early. I know. And you were so excited to go to Denver that you just booked a trip that now you have to take the day off on Monday? Guess so. Yeah. When you put it that way, it doesn't sound so good. But when you talk about getting into Denver early, that sounds better.

Have you been to Denver before? No. No. Never been to Colorado. Oh, my gosh. This is amazing. And there's even some frolic guys that are taking the trip to go and see the show. So maybe I'll see them Monday night.

There's football. One guy's afraid of flying, so he's driving from Los Angeles to Denver. It's a real commitment from Frolic Room. Are you serious? Guys from Frolic Room are showing up for this? The bartender's coming. What do they think I'm going to do?

I don't know, but I hope that doesn't add anything to any stress that you're feeling about it. I don't know what I'm going to do. I haven't been on a stage in a really long time. So I don't know. I don't even know where to put my hands. Like, I mean,

we'll, we'll figure it out. I just, I don't know. Nobody knows where to put their hands. No, you know where you put your hands when you're on TV or you're on stage is you grab your other finger. And you kind of just do this.

Notice that. Just everybody out there that watches the guys at SportsCenter standing up, touch screen, NFL pregame, all that stuff. The consultants will tell you to hold on to a finger in your opposite hand. So that you're not swinging your arms like a weirdo or something? For whatever reason, it just works. And once I did i did it i was like this is a whole new world just opened up dude's just holding an opposing finger i think middle or ring are the moves pinky it seems like guys play with their wedding rings right that's normal yeah you'll see a lot of guys on tv playing with their wedding rings.

Good eye. Good eye. You know what? Frolics are not showing up for me. They're showing up for you. So I actually have no stress. So we're good. Okay.

To the emails. Hi, guys. 34, 59, 160. Skitty fat. Functionally strong. I carry humans around for a living. What kind of work do you do? Yeah. Firefighter maybe. i don't know human carrier small humans maybe or is that are we talking are we talking daycare

yeah i don't really get it because i think he sort of leaves it out there in the ether he gives himself a 6.3 on the 10 state on the 10 scale but he's funny and kind. My partner at work is my best friend, and we've been getting closer and closer over the last five years. This girl is out of my league forever. This girl is out of my league forever all right former college athlete

funny listens to good music she has it all a year and a half ago she said she was getting divorced and that she was into me it came absolutely out of nowhere jesus christ yeah and turned into us falling in love like all the way can't get enough of each other. Fairytale shit. The only problem is dot, dot, dot. She doesn't realize that this is what it's supposed to feel like. And now is saying she needs to date other people to make sure it's going to be us forever. Man, if that is not the biggest. Go ahead. That was the biggest dick punch sentence in this email history.

Are you guys 24? What the hell? What was the stat? Did we have the age stat? 34 for him. Oh, come on. Hey, I am so into you. I need to bang other guys just to make sure.

She doesn't say that emailers and say it. I'm just interpreting it. And I'm sorry. That's things. I'm sorry. Right. Like the guy's like, this isn't fucking bad enough for solo.

You just, cause he says she doesn't realize this. You know, you got, you're in a bad relationship and it's, it'd be really interesting. You know, it's a really kind of fucked up thing to go through especially you know depending on how long it takes for you to figure that out like you can be in dysfunctional

relationships maybe you grow up a certain way and then you kind of like are attracted to these dysfunctional relationships and then you don't realize like hey there's actually like really good versions of this like they do exist don't listen to everybody about their negative stories listen to people who are just so thrilled that it's like, I found that person. And even though it's bumpy at times, like the positives so outweigh the negatives, you just don't hear enough of those stories.

Um, and this guy's trying to tell her, no, this is the way it's supposed to be. I remember there was a girl that I had dated, I think sort of a college post-college linger phase there. But, uh,

we caught up and I saw that she's kind of dating this guy i was like let's just say he was not hot and i was like what's what's going on there she's like you know what i dated this other guy after you and she's like i just needed to date somebody nice for a little while she's like he bought me an ipod i was like oh back then you buy a girl an ipod fucking forget it yeah you know it's the wedding when's the wedding she's like yeah my sister too um no that was aggressive but the point being that there can be this realization where you go oh wait like i could be with somebody really nice clearly what she was doing at the time was dating somebody that was below her league, but she just thought this guy's going

to worship me because I'm kind of attractive and, and whatever. And post it was sort of a, you know, swipe at me, I think a little bit, but I would think that when you, well, because it was, I mean, it was like, I kind of needed to date somebody nice for the, for a change. And it was like, oh, we used to hang out saying it was, I thought not needed to date somebody nice for the for a change. And it was like, oh, we're saying it was not doing it. OK, I thought you were like a crazy person for a second. Oh, no, no, I didn't care. She was dating the guy that I just met the comment. OK, I think I was threatened by that guy in my 20s.

Come on. So, all right. Back to this guy's been sitting here being like, you guys have any answers to me as I sit here in this halftime malaise of being super bummed out. All right. It's going to destroy my soul. And this girl sits next to me at work. We do community work together outside of work.

Walk our dogs together every night. She lives in the same apartment complex as me. I don't know how much I can watch her be with other dudes so wait the plan is she she also could have been like post-divorce like whatever and then tells you she's falling in love no she's scared as fuck she's gonna get married again she could be scared as fuck but she could also be like hey this has been a you know just to be fair dude sorry but she could be in this kind of like now coming up from air, you know, coming up for air a year and a half later being like, okay, maybe I just need to kind of fucking chill.

You know, like I hate to say this because I feel bad, but maybe you were iPod guy, you know, I don't know. you know i don't know uh but the idea that you're supposed to still sit next to each other at work and then volunteer outside of work and then continue to walk dogs and get updated on this stuff while you're madly in love with her this is medieval shit man you can't put yourself through this you just can't all right so we're team you got yeah all right he goes, do I stick it out? Do I run away back home to Chicago? Uh, no, no. Okay. Golf season is over and I've been living in the gym trying to stay busy. That's right. Have the anger fuel your gains. It works. I used to do reps thinking about a guy, it works. I used to do reps thinking about a guy.

One guy. Went on for like two years. Probably shouldn't have said that out loud. There's got to be some sort of a t-shirt there. I don't know what it is though. Yeah. There is. There's a t-shirt.

There's a couple t-shirts. There's a whole line. Brings skids back. Dating other people isn't fun for me when I know what I want. Do I rip the band-aid off and run away or stick it out and see if she realizes we have something special? We've both been married before, our inner early 30s, so the same age. No kids. Travel together as friends and more than friends.

Everyone in our circle at work tells us we're going to end up together. Sorry for the rant. You guys kick ass. Some of the shit Kyle says makes me cry laughing. We hope you're laughing and crying. In a good way. Yeah, yeah. We hope you're not crying.

We just try to be as honest as we can be. All right, here's the picture of the two of them. Okay, just a thing. The problem for you in this picture, man, is that you scaled it. You know how you have that option when you send an email, and if you hit like extra large? I'm looking inside of the grain of your bicuspids right now so i gotta i gotta change it pan out a little bit i don't know i see a mole here on her

do you agree with his six do you agree with his six rating his six rating he seems fine he looks okay the problem is now there's another picture of her that he sent she's pretty hot okay this picture she looks like really good now those are the ones that end up going on instagram right so yeah i don't know she's even got some good bath accessories there's nothing better than like a smoke show was on instagram posting something and like the shower rod is broken behind him yeah yeah you're just like well i don't know this might be we all have our own problems i guess right yeah right no but immediately like as a guy you're like oh maybe more obtainable she's broken fixtures in her bathroom this one has amazing fixtures uh although i don't know some scratches on that mirror maybe.

Okay, back to the situation here. Yeah, look, you're just kind of fucked. You're just kind of fucked because you're in this impossible spot that almost all of us end up in at some point in our lives where you want to tell the person that you care so much that for whatever reason, the way we work, a lot of times it becomes a turnoff. Your pursuit of trying to make it work becomes the turnoff. I clearly have no idea where her head's at. I don't know if this is her being like, idea where her head's at right i don't know if this is her being like hey i went through a divorce i fell in love with my best friend it's what i needed at the time and now i need to just make

make sure like her saying i need to date other people to make sure you're the one that's a really disrespectful fucking thing okay i can't imagine telling some girl that i've been in a relationship with being like i need a time out out. I'm going to sleep around for here just so you know I'm around. Like, you will become more attractive kind of telling her to fuck off than you will adapting to her new reality. Totally. So, I know it hurts and it's more immediate. I don't know if you need, I'm not going to tell you, look, I don't even know you. Send an email.

I'm not going to tell you to quit your job and move, but you like, I obviously would. Um, the, the only chance you, and you, by the way, like, I'm sorry, you may have zero chance. Okay. That might've been the soft landing thing for her. Hey, I know you're the one, but for me to make sure I know I want to date other people, like again just to cover all of it, she might already be done with you. Sorry. But because of all of those factors, you have to let her know, okay, fine. You want to do this?

Cool. But I'm not hanging around wondering if you're going to change your fucking mind because I have more respect for myself than that. Even if you don't have that much respect for yourself, tell her that you do. And that, honestly, I feel like based on, again, my track record, whatever, that's your best shot if there's even a shot anymore. Okay. You're down bad right yeah we didn't help on the same page we're all on the same page you're down bad this is why you don't do this this is why you don't do this and i mean hindsight 2020 whatever this is why you don't do this even whether it's an encounter which do what a part this is why you don't get involved at work if you can help it whether it's an encounter or whether it's an encounter, which I've been a part. This is why you don't get involved at work.

If you can help it, whether it's an encounter or it's a relationship. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Believe me. I know. Like a lot of guys have that rule until the hot girl likes him at work,

but go ahead. Okay. Yeah, I know. And then, and then you're afraid to go to the walk-in freezer, you know, because you never know if she's going to be in there.

What kind of places you working at? Melting pot, dude, we've been over this i'm just and then everybody knows blah blah so guys hooked up at the melting pot in the walk-in i mean i was ambushed in the walk-in yes can you help me get these strawberries it's like yeah i'm sure you really need help getting the strawberries and no and nothing sinister we're just sort of like making out you know like it wasn't like we weren't like there was no like violations or anything you know do you ever think about who will play you in the biopic i think i'd like to drop a little more weight before i think about that okay we'll get back to that you are every time i think i know everything about you and i know that i don't

you are unbelievable but keep your there's's Christmas and you are Hanukkah. Eight days. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I used to be so jealous. I'd be like, every fucking day you get something

when you're a little kid. You are the Hanukkah of people and stories. Well, the other side is the guy who wished it never happened as the other guy.

I'm uncomfortable too. So she's probably, she's definitely, like, she's going to be uncomfortable if you could take a little solace in that. But yeah, if I were you,

I would. And maybe this is also the other little thing I was trying to connect the pieces of this pod was maybe this was like the Jim Mercer bad press conference. Maybe like you said,

like maybe there's actually a better explanation and they just, just had a bad press conference about it. She probably could have said, it's a, you know, the season's going horribly. I just, just wanted to try

to change something up here rather than like, we really believe in Jeff Saturday here. So maybe it could be sort of like that. But I think what you should do along those lines is, hey, maybe you can move your desk. That's like the biggest one. I mean, it's a partner. I don't know how big your job is. I don't know if there's a place for you to have a new partner or whatever.

Like, I don't know, you move humans. So I have no idea what you do. But it sounds like maybe you need to have a partner for whatever you're doing. Maybe you could change your partner. Obviously not saying why or anything. You don't have to go to like HR with this, but also yeah, definitely switch your charities, pick a new route to walk your dog. I don't think you have to move. I think actually that's probably good if you can like see each other, but that's it. You just see each other like, and you become a sort of high and by guy. I think that's great. Like, you know, do your own thing. Um, you know, whether you said you don't want to date, I'm sure that'll change after a few lonely nights. So like that, I wouldn't

worry about that, but definitely switch up your switch up everything that you guys do together. Um, and that's probably your best chance for, for coming back. But, um But yeah, you're down bad. And really, you just need to change the whole scheme needs to change. You need to change it all. I don't think you should run away. I think that's a terrible way to go about your life. But definitely, there's definitely ways to minimize things. And it might even be cool for her to still see you doing your own shit. But I wouldn't give her a hard time. I wouldn't make it a big thing at work. But I would see if you could maybe not spend every hour of your workday with her. And then I think this will be a lot easier.

And then she might even come back to you. And if you've spent enough time doing your own thing, then that's cool. Then maybe you're into this. Get a rock climber bod, date her friend, burn the ships. Word. Thank you for sharing that with us, though, man. Really? That's a bummer, man. It fucking sucks when you're sharing that with us though man it's just that that's gonna it's a bummer man

it fucking sucks when you're in that mode I will add this thing any day I've ever spent bummed out about a relationship which I have like two different phases in my life where I had it I've never thought man what an amazing use of time that was great now

again you feel the way you feel you can do about it but uh it just is such a fucking colossal waste of mind space bartender's always there for you man yeah you yeah you just but i i could never just i could never right i could never just like keep drinking you know like i like to get after it with my buddies no doubt especially back then but i never was like oh now i wanted like i'm just gonna be drinking all the time now again everybody's different not fucking judging or whatever i like i like working out too much to be like this is like hey i'm just hey what's? Oh, he's been bummed out for like three months. He's just going, he's going to like weird places.

You're like, all right. Let's see here. New fully remote job. Hey guys, 59160, flirt with free weights on occasion, but more of a run bike guy. That's great. I had a bike guy phase during the pandemic. Now I got two bikes.

Definitely want to sell one. I recently took a new job that's 100% remote. The only stipulation is that my location has to be somewhere in the Americas. Currently, I'm living in a small southern city. I moved here about a year and a half ago for a job and made the best of it. However, this place is not home to me. I've been at the new job for six weeks now and I'm realizing the almost endless possibilities of working remote. I am ready to move. So this guy's six weeks into remote working in the southern city that he originally moved to. I'm ready to move. Herein lies the question or questions. Where should I move and how should I go about making that decision? Now, I have a decent set of parameters preset in my head for boxes that my next location has to check. It's a really succinct and efficient way of putting it. Within a six-hour drive, my parents.

Within a six-hour drive, my alma mater for ease and access to football, basketball games. And in near the mountains. I'm single, late 20s, so moving in the middle of nowhere isn't an option. I need a bit of a social commission, I could be doubling my previous salary within a year and a half. I don't have the savings to buy a house right now, so I would be renting wherever I move. A goal of mine would be to try to buy something in the next one to two years. One option I've considered. Okay, this guy's late 20s. All right, sticking ahead here. One option I've considered is moving back home with my parents six months. I lived with them during COVID, and it was great as living with your parents as a mid-20-year-old could be.

So, not great, Bob. This would give me the chance to build up a respectable savings for the first time in my life and expedite my ability to buy a home. I did not want to permanently relocate to the city where I grew up. Okay. On the other hand, my best friend who I've lived, uh, who I've lived more than a six hour drive from since we both went off to college 10 years ago. Okay.

So he's just not in the mix. Six hours is basically this guy's cutoff. Fucking 638. Sorry, dude. Not hanging out. Gets a little weary behind the wheel. That's fine. 550.

Start waking up. Get where you're going. Yeah. Yeah. 10 years ago, they graduated. So, okay. Just moved to a city that checks all the boxes I am looking for. He'll be there for at least another three and a half years.

I'm going to visit his new city for the first time next week. Literally known him all my life. Would be a dream to live in the same town. What should I do? Move back with my parents and stay for six months? Send it and move to my best friend's town. Stay where I am and take a week or two each month visiting other possible cities that check my boxes to see how they feel. Screw all those options and live the digital nomad life. Curious how you would all approach this if you were in my situation. All right.

Really good email. This guy, I'm glad he got a 33%. I can tell just from the email this guy's a valuable employee. That's one of the best written emails we've ever had. Like sometimes I butcher him.

Yeah, I just see the structure. That's what I mean though. The structure, the setup, the dramatic act two thing, and then the closure. That guy should consult people on how to write emails to people. Maybe that's what he does. That's why he's doing so well. That house, man, one or two years, I was going to say, who knows with this market and the rates and what's going to happen.

You'll be fine. Yeah. Okay. Moving home. It depends on what your parents' deal is. It seemed like you didn't really love it. I did it once for three months when I was 23. I could not fucking wait to get out of there.

All right. I ended up babysitting again. I did it my whole life. I didn't feel like fucking doing it again. And that was me. My parents probably weren't exactly thrilled to have me around for three months. Oh, my dad actually was pretty pumped. But the point is, I would have, as I've said before, nothing against my family.

I would sleep in a sleeping bag probably before I would have moved back in with my mother and father at that stage of my life. So that was a non-starter. That's pretty extreme. I'm being a bit dramatic. But I sometimes you get a little bit older, you're thinking like, ah, six months with your parents.

If you kind of go into it with the mindset of like this is only six months. The problem sometimes when you move home is the uncertainty. So you're already fucking bummed out about all this other stuff. You don't have that uncertainty. You are saying, hey, I could do this for six months, put a little money away. It sounds like you haven't put a ton of money away, maybe, or you're just such a saver that you think, hey, six months, no rent, not really traveling, working from home, I'm going to add to the nest egg.

Who knows? Because the six-month saving thing, like part of me is like, hey, that's not that bad. Six months is going to fly by. And if you know you're already good and you're leaving, maybe you could actually just appreciate your parents in a way that when we're younger, we don't really do a very good job with.

And they're going to love it. And you know you're leaving. Like we said at the beginning, I think that's a really important part of this. You're living at home, but you know you're leaving. You're like, cool, I can ride with this for a little while. And they would probably think it's the best. I don't really know what the money numbers would be,

like where you're at now to where you'd be in six months. That seems kind of quick to all of a sudden kind of change your financial landscape. But if it does, that's another bonus. But it also could mean, how much are you really going to save? So if you don't want to do it, is it really that worth it? The least exciting option, in my opinion, is the check out a city every month thing. Because you're probably not actually going to want to do it. As somebody who this year has decided after spending probably an extra year in quarantine for no apparent reason other than I just became a complete fucking hermit, which I would say is not the best move, but whatever. Life happens.

As somebody who's just back-to-back weekends, had to travel, I was like, oh, that's why I don't do this that much. It was like homework. Because it's, I love traveling, but it's also a massive pain in the ass. And then, especially for me, that has to get caught up on any of the stuff that I've missed to host a top three podcast in America. So you probably don't have to watch a million NBA games

and see what happened with the Hornets in heat last night in overtime. So have to watch a million nba games and see what happened with the hornets and heat last night in overtime so it might be a little bit easier for you but there's such a fucking enticing feeling of like oh yeah i'm gonna go to denver and get a you know i'll get placed in cherry creek checking the halcyon maybe i'll work out here get a little guest pass and then you're sitting in your hotel room for like day three. And if you don't know anybody, you're like, oh, I'm kind of doing the same thing. Now, if you're going to cities that you truly do want to research, there's like a five cities that you'd want to do it. It could be fun. And maybe you have friends and the fact that you're still in your twenties and you're not

40 seeing if your buddy can do something. And the wife in the background is saying, you can't go to Iceland with him. him um then maybe you have something else the one i like the most because it is only six months and i really question how much extra money you're really going to put aside here is if this is your dude if this is your tier guy tier a it's a core guy your road dog go fucking live in the town with your buddy you know how much i would like i thought to i thought about moving to denver just for friendship okay right you've said that seriously yeah it was fucking close but the script thing is obviously completely blowing up for me so i had to be near near the Hollywood scene, even though I've gone to Hollywood maybe three times in the last year plus. So I love that idea. It's fucking six months of savings.

Is it really going to be that big of a deal? You're getting this huge raise. Yeah, you're worried about a house, but who knows what's going to happen right now? I don't think I'd be in a hurry. You can be planning towards that. I'm not sure what's going to happen right now? I don't think I'd be in a hurry. You can be planning towards that. I'm not sure what's going to happen because I don't know that we felt the price decrease in enough markets to reflect buyers being pissed off about what the rates are. But then the counter to that is because the rates are what they are, there actually aren't that many sellers because they may like where they live and they don't want to go move somewhere else laterally than now being a worse mortgage product. So we haven't felt that price thing that would usually reflect a lack of

buyers. So I don't know. I was reading something the other day where it was 10 experts on it and like a lot of shit, they all had differing opinions. I will only share and I'm not, my only thing that I would sort of land on is I just don't know that I'd be in a hurry to buy a house right now. Yeah. Because I'm afraid. Shit and Poughkeepsie is not going down on Zillow. I can tell you that much.

There you go. Shit and Poughkeepsie. Still a hot market. Yeah. So, yeah. So there's a lot of factors with that. But I guess I wouldn't just say like, here is my deadline to buy a house. And to sit here and say, hey, we know what it's going to be.

Nobody really fucking knows. There are experts with great opinions, and some of them also do sports as well. So I like the option with your buddy. Having a buddy, being in your 20s, you like his town, you said it checks a ton of boxes. It sounds like he's got a contract for three and a half years with this city with maybe a player option at the end. Who knows?

So there's some certainty. I like that option the best yeah that's fun because this is probably the last time you said you graduated 10 years ago which means you're probably what like 32 or something like that well he said about 10 years ago i thought he said he was yeah he said single late 20s you're still in that mode of like yeah yeah we'll go out on a thursday man sure you're you're remote you don't even have to get dressed the next day on friday yeah i agree so i think yeah that's probably that's probably the coolest thing to do i'd probably be too scared to do that i think the idea of you know because it doesn't have to be

six months with your parents it could be however long like there's no you know you're not signing any lease with them unless you have the weirdest parents ever. Like I think you could probably do that. And then you could go spend a week or two with your buddy and, you know, really see what that's about. I guess the difference would be if you did visit your buddy

while like living with your parents or something, it wouldn't be like, you wouldn't get the same feeling of like having a separate space from him like it wouldn't be you'd be all up in his shit which isn't how your life would be if you move there anyway so yeah as long as you can I mean moving is expensive as a guy

who's got eyes on moving to New York in the future moving is expensive yeah well you know what could I have I really is it that big of a secret I talk about fucking fucking Poughkeepsie all the time. But it's just, it's just a thing. Just a quick, I think we covered it. Do you ever have a moment where you go, am I ranked number one in the world at anything?

I'm really, really good at eyeballing exactly how much tinfoil to pull off. I know, like, I've never been wrong, so that's pretty good. But yeah, other than that, not really. Yeah, but there's a tinfoil person that's in a different stratosphere. That's probably what they think. That's probably what they think. You're that good, huh? Yeah, I'm really good. I know exactly how much

to pull off. If it's a deep pan, I know how much to get it up the walls a little bit, but not that you have to fold it over. I'm fucking awesome at it. But that's about it. That's all I've got. Yeah, because the other day, like, my buddies will do this. Be like, do you think, what's the closest you've been to being ranked number one in the world in anything?

I'd argue you're a one seed from missing Poughkeepsie. Yeah, probably. Probably. Yeah, probably. Probably. Yeah. Definitely. The other one my friends offered the other day was like, if you had to get away with murder, which state would you have the best chance to get away with? And it was like based on your own deal. And I went, I don't know.

Maybe we'll table that one for a different podcast. Well, you know enough people in Louisiana, right? A lot of swamps. Sounds like somebody's snooping around a little bit. Okay. That's today's podcast. Thanks to Kyle, as always. Please subscribe.

And we will talk to you on Monday. Ryan Rusillo Podcast, we're on your Spotify. Thank you.