The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Nuggets Are NBA Champs and the Future of the Jokic-Murray Combo With Austin Rivers, Plus Kyle’s Wedding Recap

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

The Nuggets are NBA champs and Russillo opens with his Tales From the Couch for Game 5 and puts some of what Nikola Jokic did into historical perspective (0:36). Then, he chats with NBA guard and Ringer podcast host Austin Rivers about what it was like to play with Jokic, why he thinks Jamal Murray is a top guard in the West, and what the future holds for this Nuggets core (25:18). Finally, the guys close it out with a recap of Kyle’s wedding and some listener-submitted Life Advice (57:30). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Austin Rivers Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Denver takes out Miami. We'll do a little Tales from the Couch and something I was thinking about last night, the benefit of an injury, something you thought was terrible,

maybe actually helping this group, I'm not sure. It's just a working theory. We're going to talk with Austin Rivers, his time with the Nuggets and playing against them, some really cool

Jokic stuff. And then where Jamal Murray stacks up against the guards in the West. Life advice in a full-blown Nephew Kyle recap. Big boy got married this weekend. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost

anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap? Definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. The Nuggets are your champs. They went in game five last night in Denver. Congrats to a city that I've always loved.

And it's always crazy, you know, as I've mentioned in the past, like you go to all these venues, you look at the history, and then you look up and you see a banner. And then you're like, wait, when was the last time they did something? Or they only have a division banner? And again, you know, obviously Denver's won the West a couple of times. But to be a franchise that's been around this long and then it's like, no, no, no, last night. Last night's the first time you won a championship.

It's just a reminder how hard this is and why you should go all in probably more often than not, even if you think it's a mistake. If you're giving yourself a chance to win a championship, not saying that that's my absolute rule across the board, but this is really, really hard. That's why I probably take it easier on some GMs. That's why I probably take it easier on some players. It's just incredibly hard to do this, and you can be spoiled because of what the Lakers and the Celtics have done throughout all those years and the Bulls and San Antonio,

but that is not normal. That's not normal and for denver to go this long uh just really happy for the organization happy for the city all right let's get to it so a weird game man really weird game uh the bam throwing it out of bounds when he had jamal murray sealed at the rim you know there's these discoveries and these internal things that you'll look at with each player. You'll be like, wait, is this guy who I think he is? Or is this guy a little bit more? Is this guy a little bit less? I think, unfortunately for Bam, who's terrific, who I couldn't put Sabonis not on an all-NBA team when we looked at the depth at center at the top, but I really thought about it with Bam. And I still would have voted him, I think, defensive player of the year last year if he'd played a full season. But I think the summary, the conclusion on Bam

is that he's really good, but he can't be relied upon to carry you offensively in quarters where the other number one guy doesn't have it. And don't worry, we're going to get to Jimmy Butler. But that's the case for a lot of teams. Like, hey, if our number one isn't totally,

if it's not happening, can this person get their own offense enough? And the problem is that for Bam, I think the frustration is that we see flashes of it where he is really aggressive. But I thought there were too many times throughout this series, he was not aggressive enough,

whether it was Jokic in foul trouble, which we'll get to a little bit later. But that specific play against Jamal Murray, and it wasn't even that he threw it out of bounds. It was one of the mix-ups of where the three-point shooter is supposed to be positioning himself. A lot of these passes that we think are amazing are actually kind of like pre-determined quarterback reads.

So in that case, he's thinking somebody's already there. He's not even looking. It's not the pass. It's that he didn't want to go at Murray, who was at the rim. So Butler gets a couple bullshit free throws. That was something that was happening early. He actually missed both of them. Those were the only two misses. He was 9-11 on free throws.

That was at 6-5. Denver went up 12-5 and then 18-16. I thought Miami kind of sucked on some of these cuts that actually were in front of them, which was weird to see. Normally, when we saw some of the back cutting against the zone, it was because the low man would lose somebody in the corner or they'd be late on the closeout. But then they started having cuts that were happening just in front of them. Jokic picks up his second personal foul at 18-16. I thought that foul was really

stupid. Trying to get a charge in transition. The refs don't want to give it to you because the game shouldn't want to give it to you. If everybody was just jumping in front of everybody on outlet passes, it would be even worse than it is now in some of the block charge stuff. But then Aaron Gordon has two personal fouls. Both of them are out and are Jeff Green. Bam ends up going right at Jeff Green and the end one.

So to be dismissive against Bam being like he's never, that's not true. He's definitely aggressive. It's just that I think you'd want to see it in-game versus the situation a little bit more. And in this case, there's no Gordon, there's no Jokic. And he's like, all right, I'm actually just going to go right at Jeff Green. Gets the end one. Miami starts putting together a run here.

DeAndre Jordan in the game. I did not expect to see him in the NBA Finals. At that point, it's 22-18 Miami. DeAndre Jordan's in. Miami's playing his own. And I'm at home going like, what the hell is going on with this game? Michael Porter Jr., active though, getting his boards, which he was just a bunch better rebounding, I think,

throughout the playoffs than what you'd expect. At the end of the first quarter, it's 24-22. And Bam ends up having a solid first quarter, despite what I was thinking there in the beginning of that first play. Strews got it going a little bit there. Butler's starting to get some of the free throws or the fouls. I was like, all right,

I'm always looking for that because that's such a big part of Butler's game this year and what took him to another level on some of the metrics. As far as the Denver side of this, you're probably at this point really upset about the officiating in the game.

The second Murray foul was a terrible call. Jokic's second foul, I mentioned in that transition, that was just an awful play by him. And I thought the Aaron Gordon third foul was the right call. So I had no issues with that. Aaron Gordon ended up only playing 29 minutes in this game, 1-6. Jokic is back in at 32-37. Miami was plus 7 during that stretch. I personally have a problem with attributing the free throw to Jokic

when he subbed in because the two free throws really count against the previous group that was in there. The overall on the Jokic on-off for the series, I think was a minus three for Denver, which is a massive departure of who they were in the regular season. So that's such a huge, huge win and something I'd always track, like how are they doing in the regular season. That's such a huge, huge win and something I'd always track. How are they doing in the non-Jokic minutes? Part of it's shortening up the

rotation. Part of it's playing Jokic just more, which is a big deal with this whole thing. But now we're looking at Jokic in foul trouble again. And then on top of that, it's Gordon. So Jokic comes back in, and this is kind of back to the bam, hesitation stuff, where you're like, okay, bam, go at him. Jokic is going to get a couple too. Give him the open side. It doesn't matter. Even if you don't comes back in and this is kind of back to the bam hesitation stuff where you're like okay bam like

go at him you'll just get a couple two give them the open side it doesn't matter like even if you don't make the shot or if it's blocked and i think this is another discovery throughout this series is that despite what you think of yokich at the rim certain things that you would try against them with bigger guys and again miami's very undersized so they're not going to be able to exploit any of this stuff is that yokich just being being big, being in the way. That is a deterrent to offensive players. You don't always have to be the quickest. You don't have to jump the highest.

But just being big can be a win. And it's why when you look at rosters going into next year, you're like, why is that guy on a roster? Well, because I think a lot of teams still believe in this stuff, and a lot of coaches do. And I think it's a value that is completely dismissed now. And Jokic actually brings a little of that. I think some of the defensive stuff with him,

if you watch these games, you're like, okay, this isn't a disaster out there, and it isn't. But I would have liked to see Bam go, all right, he's right back in with the two fouls. Let's see if I can change the tide of this game and get him a third, and that didn't happen. Then Lowry shows up, and he starts taking threes and making them all over the place.

At 47-39, we saw a Jokic mistake straight up, just a bad pass. You don't see it very often. Butler takes it, goes the other way for the layup. It's 47-39 and you're wondering if Miami's going to find a way to trick everybody in Miami. You think they're actually winning this series. Um, Denver can't hit a three. They're one of 14 on threes versus four or 13 for Miami. So it wasn't like they were lighting it up at the half. It's 51, 44. Denver's one of 15 from three. Aaron Gordon, I believe it played seven total minutes after picking up that third foul Malone. Once you're in foul trouble, you know, I don't know that the, Hey, did you hear Rosillo criticize Malone this morning after he won an NBA title?

But that seemed to be a constant theme. Once his guys got into foul trouble, he would protect them almost to a point where I think it was like a lot. But whatever. All right. Butler, though, 2-8 at 53-47 in this game. Denver goes to 1-17 on threes. And by the way, a lot of these were open. And Malone was asked,

what do you think is going on in threes? How do you feel about the looks? He's like, I feel great about the looks. And he was absolutely right. Denver couldn't make open shots at home in an elimination game, which again, I think speaks to something we can also dismiss at times.

That was a very tight group collectively out there for much of that game. Whether it was Miami fighting elimination or Denver going like, we really don't want to have to go back to Miami. These two groups that have done so many impressive things, even they, when it really mattered

and the tenseness, the pressure of that game, you could see the players wearing it throughout. Which also, it's a bit like the US Open in golf. It's also kind of fun to see guys struggle. At, at least I felt that even though it wasn't a beautiful game or anything like that, it was just, who's going to get through this. Who's mentally going to get over, Hey, my first 20 minutes weren't that good. And who's going to show up because for Jimmy Butler, it felt like it was taking forever. Um, Butler had a wide open pull up shot at 66 56 and he left it short he kept kind of dribbling hard and then jump stopping and then staying down on his feet and if he's not getting those free throws

he just wasn't comfortable and on that 60 56 miss I'm like man he's actually hesitant like what's happening here if there's one thing we think of Butler it's okay you can miss a bunch of shots but you should still be trusted to be mentally tough enough in these in these areas and you know at this point of the game you're like they're still up Denver can't make a shot they've had some foul issues here you need to step up and it still didn't happen until a little bit later. At 60-60, Gabe Vincent takes a Trey Young Summer League three. And you're like, whoa, my man's pulling up from deep here. Misses Murray the other way three. And I wrote down on my notes being like, will that be the game?

Kind of felt like, okay, maybe now they're going to go on a run and that's game. But it wasn't. It wasn't game. A third quarter, Denver's D stepping up. They take their first lead at 69-66, their first lead since 18-16 on a Michael Porter Jr. 3. But then Lowry starts answering all this stuff. Lowry was arguably the most impressive player for the Heat last night.

He should not be taking 13 shots in an NBA Finals game facing elimination. And at one point, he felt like he was their best option because he was the most comfortable, which is saying something for somebody in the beginning of his playoff career. It looked like the opposite. Maybe that's the ring. Maybe that's all the battles, but credit to Lowry for just going, all right, I guess I got to do this for a little bit of a stretch here. You've got Denver's defense stepping up, the turnovers for Miami, Butler at this point a no-show, and Miami's in this thing. It doesn't make any sense. Well, that's because Denver can't make a three and they're not making

any of their free throws on top of everything else. So it's 75-74 after a Murray three. I'm starting to track Butler here. He drives, he's blocked. He drives again, he misses. he drives he's blocked he drives again he misses um he's he drives again and then kicks out then at 6 10 butler passes up a wide open three and then swings it to caleb martin who's going to have almost no time to get the shock off before the shock block violation on a drive and it was a shock block violation and then then Butler drives on another pass. And I write down on my notes here, I'm like, he's passive. The fourth quarter shooting here for Miami is abysmal. There are two of 13 at this point, but they're taking more shots than Denver. And then Butler actually takes a wide open three and misses it. And I'm thinking, okay, at least he actually took it. And this is where playoff Jimmy showed up for a bit. Right? He hits a three. KCP goes back and hits a three.

Butler, another three. Butler, what I thought was one of the worst calls I've seen all season long. He drives hard to the right corner, goes up, kicks Aaron Gordon just left of the sack, it appears, because Gordon didn't really react much unless he's a cyborg. They review it, and then they actually just upheld the call. Butler goes for 11 straight points here, makes it 87-86 Miami. I'm like, what? This is going to happen again? Everybody had turned on Butler. The playoff Jimmy jokes are out there.

I'm sitting there. I think I saw one thing, Jimmy Asler. I don't think that's fair. Jokic gets a bucket. We're back and forth. Butler free throws, 89-88 Miami. The last points the Heat would score. Butler had a couple bad plays there at the end, and ultimately, with a chance to go up,

he stops in the lane again. That stop, two-foot land, what do I do? What do I do? And he just throws it the other way. All-time awful pass. And then we play out the last few possessions in Denver. They're your world champs. So let's review a couple things here. Jokic, 600 points, 269 rebounds, 190 assists throughout the playoffs. He is now the only player in NBA history to lead all players in each of those categories in a postseason. No one's ever done it. No player has ever let points, total rebounds, total assists. Denver went 5-28 from 3 just under 18% 13-23 on free throws 57% they were plus 6 in turnovers

they had 12 less field goal attempts despite 13 more rebounds really the offensive rebounds were even it was their least efficient game on offense all postseason and according to John Shulman at NBA.com, the least efficient game for

a playoff winner in the 90 postseason wins, including the play-ins that we had this year. So no other team had won a game like that being that bad on offense. Miami. I realize after the Celtics series

this doesn't feel accurate but it kind of gets back to look I've been wrong about Miami the last thing I ever want to give off here victory lap vibes because I'm not taking one because they lost to Denver I've been wrong about them the whole time I can't believe they

were even in here but my philosophical beliefs on who a basketball team needs to be to even be this far, which they challenged at times. This is why when people are like, well, you know Miami, you do it the Miami way. What Miami did was incredible. But that's not the way you'd ever want to build a team. It's just too many possessions in big spots where you're like, especially when Butler doesn't have it, especially when Butler's not Milwaukee Butler. All right. To ask that consistently

of other dudes to carry you offensively, where you have a collection of, despite all the individual success stories that so many guys on that roster are, you can't be asking guys in the NBA Finals who are 20-point or 0-point guys. And what I mean by that is if I told you Max Strews had 20 in a Finals game, would you be surprised? No. If I told you he had 0, would you be surprised? You'd also say no. And I think for their top seven rotation guys, minutes

wise, they could have zero or 20 and none of us would be surprised. It's incredible that they even made it this far because that design normally doesn't even get you here. Yet it got them through Boston. So again, it sounds a bit like, well, wait a minute. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I guess we should say is almost everything I

believe in sports never happening is like, well, wait a minute, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I guess we should say is almost everything I believe in sports, never happening is probably not the way to land on anything. Well, that could never happen. Well, it just did happen, but it's still never going to be something I believe in. So Butler finishes with 22, four and a half boards a game, six and a half assists. The assists are up, The boards are down. The shooting is 41%, actually 37% from three, a little bit more than you would have thought.

And then six free throw attempts per game, which was good since the beginning of this final series where it wasn't even close, but it was still the lowest free throw attempt per game series of any of them this run. Now, going back to Milwaukee, because now it's a bit of a, like, what do we do with Butler? He was 38, six and five against Milwaukee, 60% from the floor, 44% from three. So when that was happening,

you're like, this is this rare case of this dude, the Madison Bumgarner analogy that I made where it's like, wait, is this just what he does? Is this just what he does? And when you're saying that you're ignoring maybe another playoff series or two where he wasn't it's like, wait, is this just what he does? Is this just what he does? And when you're saying that you're ignoring maybe another playoff series or two where he wasn't all that great, but it's that he goes from this group that he's never a part of to now wondering if that

group has been wrong the whole time, because he's doing it on the biggest stage to now where we land with Butler is like, you know what? I think the 10,000 foot view on Jimmy Butler was always the right one. He's awesome. He's a hell of a player. Everybody would really want him. But the reason we never bring him up into the top five is that he's not a dude like LeBron who could go, all right, I'm just going to have to do this. Or Steph, or obviously Jokic, or Giannis against Phoenix, even Luka in those Clippers series, right? Or the Phoenix series. Maybe even a little Booker.

And then you start adding up all the names, and you go, oh, yeah. I think where we had Butler before the playoffs is where we have him now. I don't know how much the Game 7 thing is going to hang on him to see him be that passive, because that's a little weird. It's one thing to be inefficient. It's another thing to not look comfortable. And when you're going to be out there

talking like the toughest guy in the room all the time, and then when it really matters, it's like, wait, are you actually not wired that way? We'll probably mostly forget that stuff, and it won't entirely matter because you're not going to be going into next year wondering if Miami can get back to the NBA Finals. I still don't think that's going to happen,

if you want my early prediction on that one, and that Butler's going into it fighting for an MVP. So because he avoids all that stuff, he also avoids a lot of the criticism with it as well. I know the ankle thing's going to come up. He will not bring it up, right? He was defiant about it. Credit to you for not wanting to bring it up. But against Boston, he dominated those first two games. He won the series ultimately by getting those two games in Boston, and that's after the turn ankle against the Knicks. So if it were the ankle, I think we'd see a significant drop off. And instead, we just saw somebody drop off from unsustainable numbers that he had against Milwaukee. I mean, he had the game six against Boston where you were like, wait,

should that have been the first warning? You know, he was really bad in that game. But, you know, you play enough of these, and if you're not peak LeBron, you're probably going to have a really bad game at some point. Last two thoughts. I liked some of the conversation

around Murray and Jokic with this, but I have a theory. Denver's being rewarded for their patience, right? For keeping it together, especially when you compare that now with Boston where it was like, wait, can these guys play together? Oh, wait, they never should have broken them up. Oh, wait, is there a chance that Tatum and Brown shouldn't be together? And for the record, I still think, despite some of my frustrations

with Brown and the player, you want two wings in their primes that are all-star level guys. You shouldn't be in a hurry to try to break that up. You just shouldn't. And it's like, look, you lost in the finals in an embarrassing Eastern Conference finals loss. It's not like you're going 40-42. Those are different conversations. And we need to do that more often.

But the odd thing about the patience in Denver may have been because they didn't have a chance to be impatient. When Murray misses all of the playoffs in 21, misses all the playoffs in 22, the Jokic-Murray pairing doesn't actually even have an opportunity to be disappointing in the playoffs. Now, Bill and I were going back through it Sunday. He was like, look, if Murray were healthy, what does this mean? Dot, dot, dot. I don't know. Maybe last year. I don't think so against Phoenix two years ago.

I could be wrong. But we never got to see it fail. We only saw it in the bubble against the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals in the five-game series where it wasn't even close. But if Murray had been healthy and they were to say, lose to Phoenix and lose to Golden State, I don't think Denver would have broken it up.

And maybe market-wise, Denver avoids some of the noise that some of the Northeast cities always have that once you fail, something has to change. But I don't know that it's patience. It probably would have been patience, but the reward of

Murray actually not playing which I'm not saying like hey it was a good thing that he was hurt didn't play in two playoff years but they weren't ever dealing with the doubt bullshit that so many top two guys

deal with with so many other franchises which sometimes is accurate where you're like, I don't think those two guys can do it. And sometimes it's like, they just haven't done it yet. The final thought on the dynasty stuff. Yeah, maybe, maybe. One, you have to be as motivated next year as you were the previous year, never doing it before, right? The fighter who was hunting versus the fighter with the belts. Human nature tells us you're not going to fight as hard. Is Denver so dominant that they can take a step back with their focus?

Although they did do it at the end of the regular season. I don't know that they are. The defensive numbers would tell you they weren't. The road number is a weird number. They didn't win 65 games, but Jokic is so good that they're going to be in it. They're going to be in the mix. But the dynasty stuff, the only way I would sign off on that is if I knew that Michael Porter Jr. was going to get to this next level as a player. And I thought some of his defensive stuff did get better

despite getting benched twice in this series, I think twice, I don't know that Porter Jr. all of a sudden becomes a guy that you can run your offense through. And if he were to become that, then I'm all for the dynasty talk. But let's get another one. Let's see a 60-win season. Let's see, I don't know, let's just see where you're at in comparison to what will likely be a not-as-weird West in the upcoming season.

Again, congrats to them and Jokic, who I'm not going to be able to help myself. I just want to ask you a quick question here. Ask the audience this. We all think Michael Jordan's pretty good, right? LeBron James? Pretty good. If you look at win shares,

which in the propaganda against Jokic the last few years, any number that wasn't just points, rebounds, and assists, it was a made-up number by the Embiid cult. Some of the numbers are you want to bring up Raptor, Vorp, like yeah, I've made Vorp jokes.

I'll admit it. But if you look at win shares, where each game over the course of a season, there's a stat where essentially you're assigning who contributed what offensively and defensively to that win, and then it's a win share. The leader in playoff history in win shares per 48 minutes. So per 48 minutes, who has contributed the most in NBA history to his team winning playoff games? It's Michael Jordan, one. It's Michael Jordan one.

It's George Mike and two. It's LeBron James three. And it's Nikola Jokic four. Not bad for a made up number. Baseball season. It's in full swing and there's no better place to get in on the MLB action than FanDuel America's number one sportsbook, because right now, new customers get a

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Off guard every Friday with Pasha, the ringer NBA feed. Good to see you, man. What's going on? All good, man. All good. Just enjoying the summer. Hanging out with family. Watching these finals.

A little painful for me, but still watching them and trying to enjoy them yeah i mean is it tougher to have lost to denver in the first round or have been on the nuggets uh the last couple years they both were equally as bad man uh it was it was so weird playing against uh you know the bros and then they beat you know they beat us 4-1. And then they beat, you know, they beat us for one. Um, and then they go on and win a championship. It was just like, wow. Uh, but I'm happy for him and, you know, in all honesty, I, I love those guys. Um, I think that we would have had a chance to win last year and the year before if we had, you know, a healthy Jamal, that's really just the difference. You know, they've added pieces, but we had pieces there last year as well,

to be completely honest. Jamal Murray's healthy on the floor last year with us. That's really just the difference. They've added pieces, but we had pieces there last year as well, to be completely honest. Jamal Murray's healthy on the floor last year with us. It's a whole different team. They are not a championship team without Jamal Murray. Yeah, look, Jamal really is that good. Help us understand what this team

is like. Because in the past, I was like, are they good enough on defense? And you're right. Last year, I didn't really worry about it all that much. And then you go back a few years ago, I already touched on this in the open where they lost to the Lakers in five,

and it was still a little new. But what is the vibe of this team like in comparison to other teams you've been on? Low maintenance would be the first thing that comes to mind. Their best players are low maintenance, and that's usually not the case. In fact, 99% of the organizations, usually the highest paid guys, are usually the most, I don't want to say dramatic guys, but they're usually the guys that have a lot more going on

or their schedule is a little bit more whatever. The maintenance is higher overall on a day-to-day basis. you know, whatever. The maintenance is higher overall on a day-to-day basis. And in this case with Denver, you got Jokic, who is about as normal as the superstars that they've ever come.

And Jamal Murray is a guy who doesn't require any maintenance as well. They come to work. They're quiet. They do their job. They don't complain. They don't talk shit about the other teammate. They don't start stuff. They don't combat the coach. They're not late to workouts. They're not complain. They don't talk shit about the other teammate. They don't start stuff.

They don't combat the coach. They're not late to workouts. They're not late to the bus. They're not late to the plane. I mean, every single thing is just professional and as you would want your star to be. And that's where it starts. And when you have the stars acting like that, no one else can do that. And they just have a culture there of just like, everyone knows their role. Everyone knows they're playing the Jokic, you know, and everyone kind of plays around that. It's just a well-oiled machine, where in comparison to other teams, you have, you know, stars, sometimes they compete with another star, you have guys trying to be this, you know, contract year, this year, those words aren't even brought up in the locker room room like over there. It's just a different type of culture.

That's a great answer. It's such a good answer because it is so rare. When I watch Jokic speak, it's funny because I can always tell who's full of shit. I think I've been watching this long enough where you're like, oh yeah, yeah. When somebody is almost so perfect, so over the top,

like one of my favorite things is when we get a story about a draft pick that picked up garbage at a team function after and be like, oh, he's going to be awesome. And he picked up garbage that shows like, knowing that if I pick up garbage right now, everybody's going to talk about how like, and now,

now to be fair, there are some guys that sincerely see garbage on the floor and they're like, all right, I'm going to pick it up. But we all fall for it all the time. The media, we're all like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah. This Jokic stuff is real, though, isn't it?

Like him not caring about any of this stuff. Tell me about it. We've been in a big game. I can't exactly remember if it was a playoff game or not, but I just remember it was like a big game coming to the locker room. It's halftime. And this dude has his legs crossed in his locker playing a video game. It was on his phone, like just like a little, just a game.

And I remember thinking to myself, like, what the hell is he doing? And he dominated the second half. Absolutely dominated. And I was just like, you know, it was like a lesson for me to understand everyone's process is different. You know what I mean? Because nine out of ten times, if you saw that, you'd be like, what the hell is this guy doing? But for him, I don't know. I think he takes the game so, I don't like to say lightly because he's such a professional.

game so, I don't like to say lightly because he's such a professional, but his approach rather sometimes can just be so just, I don't even know how to explain. He's so cool and collective to where, you know, even after bad losses, you know, he's just quiet. He moves the same way, never too high, never too low. I mean, you saw the interviews after the game last night. He was like, man, I can go home now. Thank God I can go home. I just, that trophy of his is going to end up somewhere in a garage and he is going to go out and race some horses. And, and that is just about, and that's the mystique to him. I think that's why people really like him. I mean, it's, it's he's hard to market, but people are starting to like come around to his, just like, I don't give a fuck nature. And I think personally, that's even why Jimmy said those things in that hall of fame thing that, you know, I wouldn't give a fuck nature. I think personally, that's even why Jimmy said those things

in that Hall of Fame thing. I wouldn't show up. I love Jimmy. That's the homie, but there's no way you don't show up to that, bro. That's insane. Wait, wait, wait. You think that Jimmy tried to out-Ida-also-don't-care Joker?

I think because they both are of that type of... Jimmy's the same way. Jimmy like jimmy jimmy likes you know his attention but it's usually only for like big face his coffee brand or anything everything else in his interviews is usually slated towards you know winning a championship or you know busting you know even when they went to the conference finals bam trying to hand him the trophy jimmy was like i don't i don't want to hold that. You know what I mean? Jimmy is cut from a very similar cloth to Jokic of where they have this, I don't give a fuck nature about them, that there's more to this basketball.

And it helps them, I think, be so calm and just consistent. It's a very rare and crazy skill to be able to have that. But they have this way about them. And I think Jimmy went a little too far. Because when he said the Hall of Fame comment, everybody was like, bro, you get invited to the Hall of Fame, you got to go able to have that. But they have this way about him. And I think Jimmy went a little too far. Because when he said that, when he said the Hall of Fame comment, everybody was like, bro, you get invited to the Hall of Fame, you got to go.

That's crazy. But no, yeah, that's just me being funny. But no, it's, you know, Jokic is an animal, man. And he has this way about him that like you just can't even explain. It's nothing like I've ever been around, bro. Nothing.

Yeah, because normally if there's an athlete that every time something is deserving of individual accolades or just accolades in general like hey now it's your moment now it's your moment and then you'd be this dismissive i'd be like i actually don't think i believe them because like you're going out of your way to keep hammering this but i think part of it just could be the upbringing like something i don't understand like and i i love what you talked about you know him just being that relaxed and making sure that it wasn't deemed like unprofessional but if he wasn't good and was playing video games at halftime you know or if he had an awful second half and that kind of stuff gets out right then it's like what's

wrong with this dude but it also kind of speaks to like the times that you know i've talked about your career a little bit like anybody when you start thinking and you're so tensed up and you're like i have to be all of these things i have to be all these things like we're all better at our stuff and we can mentally relax but sports don't really let you be that way most of the time no 99 it's a high pressure job it's a high stress job i mean that's why every coach you see before and after picks they got gray hair man it's the most stressful you know especially and after picks, they got gray hair, man. It's the most stressful, you know, especially nowadays with the coaching jobs, it's like hot seats,

but like it's, it's, it's, it's one of those things where the job itself is to perform under pressure and to have a guy who has a natural, natural, not fake, real aura. Most guys are in their head all day,

all game. And it just seems like yoga is just, you know, I don't even know. He's into other things. He, you know, I don't even know. He's into other things. He, you know, he's, he watches, he watches more overseas basketball than he does NBA basketball.

Like when I, after a game, I'll go home and turn on League of the Past. He's watching his friends play overseas. He could care less. You know what I mean? He just shows up the next day and just dominates. And it's just like, it's, yeah, I don't know if anybody else

could get away with it. I think he's just, it's part of his greatest skill. And I don't know. It's fun to watch, man. I mean, he just dominates the game. I mean, Miami had, and I give credit to Bam.

Bam played his ass off. He played hard. He had a lot of good games. But Jokic is just like, he's just a whole different animal, man. I was really kind of keying in on Butler last night. And, you know, he wasn't making shots. He was getting in the line a little bit.

And then there was that stretch at the beginning of the fourth quarter. He passed up an open three. And then he had another one where he passed it to Martin. And I was like, what's going on? Then he went for 11 straight points. Yeah. But, you know, I don't know the ankle thing. I don't know if that's fair or not.

You would know better than I would. Because he basically won that series, I think, against Boston in those first two games, getting the first two on the road, dominating those fourths, but like having those moments. So that's after the ankle injury. I guess it was just it was one thing to miss shots. It's another thing to feel like he was really passive. And then he wasn't. And then, of course, he has the big turnover. What did you see? He was really passive. And then he wasn't. And then, of course, he has the big turnover. What did you see? Yeah, I thought at times he looked tired, understandably so. But he looked a little tired and winded. And then I thought he lost a little bit of – it's hard for me to say he lost confidence.

I don't like saying that. But it doesn't matter who you are. You miss some shots, especially game after game. You think about the last dominant game we've seen from Jimmy. It would have been, I mean, you probably know better than me, but probably be game. I would say like middle of, I mean, really dominant, dominant. I just think what he did against Boston,

the beginning of that series. That's my point. It's been a while. He hasn't played like his greatest, you know. We had 28 in game seven, but I just don't think it was as impressive still. He was getting those one-on-ones. He was getting those isos. He was working the switches.

He was initiating with the ball. There was a possession, and this speaks to what you said. It's not just about the shot attempts. There was a possession late in the first half where he had already checked out and was hands on shorts and let Lowry go for the ISO. And I was like, Whoa, even,

even when Lowry hit the last couple of threes in that third quarter, then the third, he had a couple of big threes. Um, and then he went for like an ISO play. And my thing is just like, why doesn't like, we were all watching the game.

Like how the hell does the Jimmy have the ball right now? And it wasn't Kyle's fault. Like Kyle came down and like, that's when he, remember he did like the reverse pivot and tried to like shoot it you know mid-range and then one time he got caught in iso and aaron just grabbed it from him in the air it was like where the hell is jimmy and i think he was a mixture of exhausted and you know he hasn't really shot the ball well and then i think you saw you know he hit that one in the corner and for a basketball player man you hit one shot one free throw you just see

that ball go to the net it just does something to you especially a three-pointer where he hasn't shot the best he hits that corner one and jimmy's that type of guy like you know he hits one he can hit like three or four in a row and he almost you know brought him back at the end but throughout the game i didn't like his aggressiveness. I didn't like it. Bam was there. Bam played well. I loved his assertiveness.

I loved his attack mode. He played pretty well throughout the finals. Jimmy's obviously had an incredible run in this playoffs and had so many dominant moments. It's hard to pick on him, but I thought he wasn't as aggressive as I would have liked him to be last night. I would have liked him going out, just clip unloaded, man.

Just go out swinging. Go out swinging, man. You're down 3-1. You're in Denver. You're a team that's not favored. Clearly, Denver's the better team. I would have liked him to have 30 shot attempts last night.

I'm not even kidding. Just really go for it. But he looked a little tired, I think. Yeah, and I think your point about him being tired, too, because you get really obsessed with the box score stuff and shot attempts and all that. He wasn't making enough shots and then he has that run. But it was

just like, I had to remind myself, remember what he was doing against the Celtics early in that series? Remember how he would just dictate everything? And granted, Boston did a little bit better job of not allowing Derek White and Grant Williams and all these guys to be an awful isos or like one side of the the court is it's basically I don't know like early on in that series I'm like why are you letting him work empty on this side and everybody's overloaded and you're just letting this happen all the time but you knew he was at least dictating things and

I just don't know that we saw enough of that certainly last night. All right, let me move on to something else because we've covered that. Jamal Murray bump, it is happening now. This is what he's always wanted. I would argue that when you're hurt, you're out of our everyday consciousness. That's what's cost him a couple all-star appearances potentially here. But then when you start listing the guards in the West, it's like, okay, well, wait a minute. Who is he actually better than now? So the perception of him will have changed

even if the game isn't necessarily all that different. But where do you see him in the West with all the other guards? I think he's a top-tier guard. I think he's a top-tier guard. Better than Josh? That's what I saw. Let me ask you this.

Would you rather, if you're starting a franchise would you rather start with would you rather start with john moran or would you rather right now would you rather have john moran or would you rather have jamal murray look um that's i mean i can't possibly but prior to like prior to the new evaluation question of if we drop this player off at a strip mall by himself for the afternoon are we going to be okay um jaw would have been the answer emphatically before everything that happened on both ends of it so it's a bit of an extreme okay so so take take the the gun stuff out of the way i know that's impossible to do but say we take that out of the way you know because jaw's still a good dude man he's a good kid you know he's just caught up into some some just really bad habits in the case of who are your friends right now and i think you take all that aside

for the moment after jamal's run you still would go you still would go jaw i mean jaw's younger but you know the only thing that would make me not take Ja is I'm still waiting for his pelvis to break in half on a landing one day. But I... The stuff that Jamal was doing, man. Well, explain it to me. I'm not fighting with you.

I'm saying explain it to me. I like guys who are able to, who are three-level scorers. That's first and foremost my favorite. I don't like a guy who's dependent upon being in the paint. It's very hard to win that way, especially in the playoffs when the floor shrinks and they don't call as much fouls. There's been players who have been able to get away with it,

really only Giannis. Even had seen LeBron at times through his finals experience in the past, early on struggle with that just because he had to get his jump shooting and playmaking ability. Just the overall way of thinking the game different. The only guy I've ever seen who literally do it is Giannis. I mean, just absolutely just dominate the paint in the finals or through the playoffs consistently.

And even Giannis, man, we've seen in plenty of series where when they shrink that floor, it's very hard for him to be himself. And Ja is a great talent. He's a freak athlete. His game is mostly right now predicated on athletic ability. You know, the other parts of his game in terms of his shooting, passing,

you know, he has, you know you know talent there but it's not something that he's consistent at and jamal's good at every single one of these the only book that you even have in jamal is the injury but you know you take that out of the way and how how good he's been when he's been healthy he's a three-level scorer who has a rapport with the best player in the league i just don't see anybody else even being able to, you know, in terms of fitting on the Nuggets, I wouldn't replace him with any guard in the West. Maybe Luka, you know, something like that if it's that crazy. Fox?

Yeah, I think I like Jamal. And Steph, you're just saying from an age thing that's not... Yeah, I mean... Nobody's arguing him over Steph. Yeah, I'm not arguing nobody over Steph, man. Steph would be one. But yeah, Steph and Luka aside in But yeah, Steph and Luka aside, in the West, Steph and Luka aside, I would...

You could pick Jamal over De'Aaron or Ja. Either or. If you pick Ja, I wouldn't have a problem either. But he's in that conversation. The only pushback I would give to Ja right now, my position would be a losing position, so I'm not even going to get heated about it. It would be something we never thought we

all now think you know something we didn't think for years we now all think because the last couple months and that's I usually think when we make mistakes with this stuff but when you do the whole thing it's not even a conversation so we'll just we'll just leave it at that when you played

him when you played him in the first round, did you go, uh-oh, it's on? Did anything change from what you thought of them from all the other matchups and then being there to that first round? Was there anything that was like, you go, okay, what were you guys

saying to each other on the Timberwolves side after you were playing them in that series? I mean, it was I mean, I expected exactly what happened in terms of obviously I didn't think we were going to lose. I just knew how Denver would play. I just know how they play being there.

And, you know, I know how Nicola plays. It's just one of those things. First off, it was tough for us, us. We didn't have Nas Reed or Jada McDaniels, which I think people are still undervaluing

as a huge blow to our team, especially with Jaden and what he does for our first unit defensively. Playing against them, I knew once they beat us that they were going to win. I knew once they beat us, uh, that they were going to win. Um,

you know, I called, I remember my pops was talking to me that next day as they were getting, I think, ready to go into the next round. And I was like, Denver's Denver's coming out of the West. And it's kind of to the point that you alluded to earlier,

uh, the West was, it's a weird year this year. There wasn't really a clear dominant team. In fact, the only dominant team was really Denver. Uh, everybody else was like, okay.

I mean, the Lakers had a run, but you knew like roster for roster, like that team wasn't going to beat Denver. People hoped they could, people thought they could, but like, if you actually looked at that team,

man, and like looked at who Denver was playing as a starting lineup for them, like, well, it's not even just in terms of fit and how denver is perfectly put together um nobody's going to beat that team i i think role player for role player how they're constructed especially their starting lineup from point guard to top it's just a very sound very like coexisting team they all complement each other you know the only one that can get a little out of pocket once

in a while is you know mpj can throw up some wild shots, but hey, you pay him $170 million. He's a scorer. Sometimes you got to let that thing go. You know what I mean? And he hits big shots sometimes. Just like last night, he went on a little run. He was huge for them last night. Even though he wasn't that efficient, I think he had 17 points and 16 shots, something like that. He still

was very timely. Their team is fitting that. And I knew that team as a whole would just beat anybody right now. Phoenix has two stars. They had no role playing. Dallas, we don't know what happened with that. All the teams from last year, it's just been a weird year. Something was wrong with Golden State this year. People talk about how or why. I'm not going to get into that. If you go across the board, our team had injuries. I mean,

go across the board. Who's in the West? The Lakers just now started playing well, like two months ago. There was no team to really challenge them. And they were solid from the start.

So they had the best record at home court advantage. I knew once we lost them that, you know, they were probably going to the finals. And then after Miami went on this run, man, everybody saw it coming.

Once Miami was in the finals, everybody knew whoever won the conference finals was going to win. And I love Miami. There's no disrespect. They played their ass off. But again, roster for roster, they cannot compete with Denver, man. They're just too sound of a team. And Denver's not even deep. They play like six guys.

They play like seven guys. They play Braun and Jeff Green off the bench with Brown. They're eight deep. That's all they play. You know what I mean? They play like seven guys. They play Braun and Jeff Green off the bench with Brown. They're eight deep. That's all they play. You know what I mean? They play eight guys. Before we get to some other stuff, just to go back to the guard thing, are we not including Booker in the conversation with Murray

because we don't look at him as a point guard anymore? Yeah, I was saying because he's a shooting guard. Otherwise, he's obviously in there. That goes without saying. Would you rather have Booker or Murray? Booker. Okay. I like Murray, man.

Murray's good, but Booker's the best shooting guard in the NBA right now. I think Ant has a chance to be that, but I think if you look at this past season, who was the best shooting guard in the NBA, I don't think anybody can... I think Devin was definitely the best shooting guard in the NBA. Totally off topic, but still NBA. I kind of like that Booker gets into it with guys where,

like when he got into it with Luka this year, I was like, yeah, no, good. Cause Luka complains all the time and the play he was complaining about specifically, I was like, all right. But then when I hear about Booker, it seems like other dudes really like him. Like other guys in the NBA. Now, I don't know. You're looking at me right now.

I don't know if I'm totally off if you don't like him. But is Booker considered a popular guy by other NBA players? It's tough because he hasn't floated around. He's only ever been in Phoenix. So the only guys who really know him are guys who have played with him.

You know what I mean? From the amount that I've known him, he's always just been a pretty quiet kid, but he talks his shit when he needs to. He plays with a chip on his shoulder in the NBA a little bit. I think some guys like it. Maybe some don't. I don't really know.

Yeah, no, look, I just think it's always like, well, time, you know? I just always think like, I see what he's doing here. I do like his beefs with the player. I don't mind talking like that and being competitive.

I love the Luka stuff with him. I like that he goes at Luka. I like that Luka goes at him. It's a mutual sign of respect, first and foremost. But after that, I like how they both want to go at each other and outplay each other. It's fun to watch. And he has that with a couple of players.

I would like to see a Booker Tatum thing. There's nothing there. There's never been. They're very similar players. They're similar sizes. Tatum's a little taller but so what another western east but like i those are like the two premier guards i think we always view tatum as a small forward but like him and jalen brown are like both shooting guard small four whatever man

there's not even like a position in the nba anymore so it's just like that you know i would like to see that at a thing i would like to see that more of a competitive thing. Right now, it's Luka, Devin, it looks like. I don't know anybody else who's gotten into it with Devin. No, and I guess I'm kind of like thinking about the personalities of different guys. Because you know what? Actually, this is a good transition into Kyrie. And that I try to remind people only from stories that I hear.

I'm like, other guys really like him, man. Other guys really like Kyrie the dude. And I'm always kind of like, why would you, why would you put your eggs in that basketball basket knowing that he hasn't been the most reliable guy for a million different reasons last few seasons? And then I'll have an agent or I'll have somebody who, you know, runs in different circles being like, dude, I'm just telling you, you think whatever you want to think. Guys really like Kyrie the dude. Kyrie's everybody's favorite, Hooper's favorite Hooper. You know what I mean?

He's one of those guys that people enjoy watching play. He is one of the most, and I've said this before, he is just a very, his game is attractive to watch. The way he dribbles the ball, his moves, his shots,

he can finish left, he can finish right. Talk about a three-level score this guy's a post game so arguably the greatest probably under the ring finisher ever in the nba with a couple other guys he is i i know i don't even think it's really close man because i've gone into it looked at it because when i first said that i'm so glad you said that i said it on the sports center set and everybody looked at me like i was the you know it was like like, oh, Iverson, Iverson. You're like, Iverson had like a three-year window where he was great at the rim.

You're right. If you look at Kyrie's finishing at the rim to sustain it, to have that package of different angles from what he does it and he didn't really, I don't, I've never seen somebody his size finish as consistently well as he does. So we're in a complete agreement. Yeah. And his handle

has always kind of overshadowed that because people talk about who has the greatest handle of all time. People throw Kyrie's name in there all the time. But one aspect I think really gets lost is his finishing ability at the rim of either hand and how he does it

and also the way it looks. Just the cuffing, the spinning off the glass. I mean, it's a fun thing to watch. And he also is such an amazing player when he's so locked in. And when Kyrie is locked in, man, and competitive and guarding and playing on both sides of the ball, he is so good to the point where he's one of the best point guards in the NBA.

His thing has always been Kyrie, the dude, is a great dude. If you do know Kyrie, Kyrie is just on his own own time you know what I mean like he's just he's you know he's a different guy he's not a bad guy he's just different but Kyrie for sure is on his own time and that sometimes doesn't coexist with you know the GM or president or team's time and that that can be like you said a liability so that that's where his issues have been. That's why people have given up, I think, a lot on Kyrie Irving, which is frustrating for a hooper because we love him and we're like, bro, this guy is so good at basketball.

I mean, think about it. If I did the stuff that Kyrie did, I would be in Shanghai somewhere playing for the goddamn Taiwan Minnows. I don't even know. That's Radley. But he's so good at basketball, you're willing to put up with the stuff that he's done,

good or bad. And I think some things have been fair with him. A lot of things have not been fair. Regardless of the fact of what he's done, agreeable or not, he is a remarkable basketball player.

And people are still turned on by the idea of him coming to the team because they're like, man, this guy is instant box office basketball. Yeah. Look, I get, I get that part of it.

But I just wanted you to explain the player side of it because like, I remember somebody else played with him and then I asked, I was like, why is he doing it? And they were like, dude, he loves Kyrie. And I was like, all right. Okay, cool. All right. So what does that mean?

None of this means that specific, but I want to ask you about you at this point, like going into this offseason. Do you have any idea, some idea? What are you hoping happens here? You know, for me, man, like people a lot of times see my years in the league. They're like, oh, you've been in 11 years,

going on 12, blah, blah, blah. You know, what are you thinking now? Like, bro, I'm 30, man. I'm in my prime. I feel really good. You know, This is the best I've ever felt. My body feels great. I've been working on my jump shot the past two years, changing my form, refining it, shooting the ball better than I've ever been. This past year, I had more of a veteran role where I played a lot of times. Sometimes I didn't play at all in the playoffs.

I didn't play a lot. But my job was to do things off the court as well. You know what I mean? It wasn't just to have an impact on the court. It's to help, you know, the guys who were playing, the guys whose numbers were called, you know, just to keep them mentally right, be there if I, you know, if I was needed and, you know, to help this team really try to grow.

So Minnesota is definitely an opportunity, you know, a possibility. And that's a team that I would like to for sure, you know, to help this team really try to grow. So Minnesota is definitely an opera, you know, a possibility. And that's the team that I would like to for sure, you know, look at to go at back to just because I feel like my, my role could even grow there just with even, you know, anytime you're, you're somewhere for more than a year, it gives yourself a time to adjust to a team and get more acclimated and improve your role. So that's one team, but there's a lot of teams, man, with guards that are needed. I'm a two-way player.

I defend. You know, I've been able to play around stars. I played with Jokic. I played with James. I played with Chris Paul. I played with, you know, Westbrook. I played with all. And I know how to play playoff basketball.

I've played more than 60 games. You know what I mean? So I'm ready to play, man. But I'm also ready to be a part of, you know, a young culture too because I've done that. So I'm pretty open, man. I'm not in a position where I'm ready to play, man. But I'm also ready to be a part of, you know, a young culture too, because I've done that. So I'm pretty open, man. I'm not in a position where I'm going to have

30 teams calling my cell phone, you know? So you got to look at what's out there and then also what's best for you and where you think not only can you play another year, but where you can play and actually grow and like do the things that you work on all summer. You know what I mean? I'm just not killing time here.

And I'm 30, like I said, I'm not 36. I'm ready to hoop and like really try to get back after so i'm excited we'll see what happens who who fucking who who knows man it's the nba yeah yeah uh i i do think there's been a bit more of a shift though of like i've never understood it like the rebuilding teams but the rebuilding teams are all kind of like at phase two now, though. Like they've gotten their lottery picks in. They have more lottery picks coming in. But there was a real push, it felt like, for years where it was like, well, if we're rebuilding,

we can't have anybody who's a vet around. And you're like, that doesn't make any sense. That shift has really changed over the past like two, three years. You're seeing teams saying like, well, we need some type of... You got to have some type of culture in your locker room, some type of guidance. Players who not only can be a vet, but vets who can still get out on the floor and play.

That way, the young players can play with good basketball. It can't all just be from the sideline. And you have to have a mixture of guys who are able to do both. So I think it's very beneficial. All the great teams have them. Every team that wins has them. So, yeah, I would imagine and hopeful that teams continue to look for vets

who can come in their locker room and not be a problem or a distraction, understand their role, understand what they're there to do, and be ready to play and help the team in any way. Yeah, I think the problem is the front office head coach disconnect that is just natural based on what the goals are that the front office would be afraid if I give them too many like decent vets, then we're going to be closing games with all these guys. We're not going to be developing young guys who might win a few more games

that we want to, but yeah, it got, it got overboard. Like it got overboard where it's like, dude is the entire, can anyone on the roster rent a car, you know?

So right, right, right, right. All right. Austin Rivers, again, off guard every Friday. The Ringer NBA feed. You're the man.

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But husband Kyle in the house. Congrats, man. How are you doing? you doing great doing great i had a big sleep yesterday just thing after thing and and then we parlayed a funeral for my grandfather who died in like november it was just like it's like classic my family just push everything together so it was it was like thursday night which was before the wedding that was a uh that was just a way too late sort of night where, you know, I just, I don't know. I think it was destined to happen. I felt like absolute garbage. Lost my phone charger.

Phone was dead. And then Friday was the wedding that went, you know, as weddings go. Saturday was like a big party where we had like more people than showed up to the wedding. And then Sunday was like a funeral thing. And yesterday was Monday. And now here we are. So I'm going to have another big sleep tonight. I can't wait for it. up to the wedding uh and then sunday was like a funeral thing and yesterday was monday and now here we are so um i'm gonna have another big sleep tonight i can't wait for it so how'd it go how'd it go like based on expectations like how you felt in the moment take us back man dude i was i was

solid for like months everyone's asking like are you nervous are you nervous are you nervous like no not at all not at all and then like two hours before it was, um, God damn it. I was like, uh, like before my first, you know, live Raya Rosillo podcast, you know, and it's like, and it was the same deal where like those, those dudes were outside and, and they're like, just, you know, grabbing me on my shoulders. Like, you nervous, you nervous, you know, can we feed you some whiskey? And I'm like, God damn it. It's actually making this way worse. So, um, and then it was raining. And so that was like, uh, this is going to be a disaster, but, um, it was kind of on me cause she would had like stashed herself away. I wasn't supposed to see her until like I was up there. So, um, I was kind of making the calls and I'm

like, I know that she's going to say outside no matter what, but like it was raining like 20 minutes before. So I just kept saying, do you think, do you think? And it held up for like three hours and that's all we needed was like 20, 20 good minutes. So that was good. I heard the hors d'oeuvres were awesome. Didn't have, I had one bacon wrap scallop, but everyone else said the, uh, the hors d'oeuvres were great. Um, food was good. A couple of broken glasses, but no fights at the wedding. Um, some guys stole a golf cart and that was bill thought that was hilarious um that was i thought we were gonna get a phone call about that that was fine um and then i told everybody that happens the golf cart thing we covered that with

bill like those are oh yeah i i think they put the wedding planner puts it in that just one well they they came up to my buddy was like you can't leave the keys in the golf cart, man. What are you thinking? And it's a fair point. He fired back at him like, no, what's wrong with you? So that was good. Yeah, I don't think Bill got harassed too much. That was nice.

Yeah, I told everybody I was going to the bars and just went right home. And there was there was quite a no after party. OK, there was. I don't know. I was so tired that was the classic like 3 3 a.m 3 a.m on thursday i was like you know probably probably should have went home before that so that was the big night is you went hard because all your boys were around but you got married on a friday so yes you went full throttle the night before

so you did you feel like shit all day? Really bad, yeah. Really, really bad. Did you drink at all? Did you have like a couple to get you over? I had a whiskey shot for courage right before we left. And then once I got there, I just, I like, I had a beer. And then I had like one more, I think.

And so it was just like one whiskey shot, two IPAs. Just kind of nervously, nervously walking around. I was doing okay. And then I see my brother who was supposed to give a speech later, which he did. But he starts puking. Before. A lot. Yeah, right before we're supposed to go out there.

And I like, you know, put my hand on his back and he was like so hot. And, you know, I was like, man, you're nervous. You're making me nervous. But yeah, we were all good. there was a false start at the wedding the the guy who was running the show was like go get out there man they're about to bring her back here so get out so i'm standing up there for like i don't know felt like 20 minutes and then uh i was like i'm just gonna go and check on everyone and that's when i find my brother puking and i'm like all right so i was gonna be up there for like 40 minutes with everyone staring at me. But yeah, then it went off and that was the hard part.

We did the whole thing. Heard my vows were pretty good. People thought. Yeah, Bill said both of you guys did well. And then the hard part was over. It all went away. Were you nervous? Because I just remember, you know, I just don't like being the center of attention in those things. So I'm like just kind of uncomfortable with everyone coming up to me and like having something to say to me. And I just, I don't act

well in those situations. I like just being kind of a guy that's not the, you know, the main guy. And so like, I was, I got like a little nervous and on edge because you're right. Guys come up behind you. They put your hands on your back and they constantly ask you how you're doing. It's like, dude, I'm fine. Like, just leave me alone. I'm fine. They're not even asking me. They're suggesting that I'm nervous. They're like, look at your face. God, look at your face. You're such a pussy. Exactly. So like, so when people were like, hey, were you nervous? Like, I wasn't nervous about getting married. I was just like nervous about you got to talk to like 200 people, you know, some of which you don't know. It's a lot

of small talk. I'm not really good at that. So was that kind of your thing too? Because that stressed me out probably more than anything at the entire wedding. I think the worst I'd felt, I mean, I've met like maybe four members of her family. Like her family was like, this is like one of those like rom-com movies where, you know, nobody knows the husband and it all like, and that's kind of what it was like her. She had a lot of family in Florida, a lot of people in Brooklyn that we just never like saw. So I'm standing up there, they're all on one side of the aisle and it's just kind of me up there. And I'm just like, yeah, none of these people know me. And they're just like, I hear them talking,

and I'm like, oh, man, what is going on? And it's like, really, it was probably like 15, 20 minutes, and that was probably the worst. I was like, am my legs going to give out? What's going on here? But yeah, after that, it was just so easy. It was great. The hard part was over, and it immediately went away.

So you went to bed pretty early the night of your wedding. Yeah, I think like 1130. 1130. And that was a good thing because there was what I've heard is like a legendary scuffle that happened later. But I did tell everybody we were going. I was like, we're going to the Derby. And I just ran around everyone as they were leaving like Derby, Derby, Derby. And my phone had been dead since like 7 o'clock. And I was like, there's no way people Derby. And I just ran around everyone as they were leaving, like, Derby, Derby, Derby. And my phone had been dead since like 7 o'clock.

And I was like, there's no way people are going to be able to contact me. And we just got dropped off at the Poughkeepsie Grand, and I went right to sleep. Was this like a situation where you're not there, so this was the Poughkeepsie and the New York guys? They finally figured it out. But they banded together and beat the shit out of a guy. Like, it wasn't each other.

Yeah, they beat the shit out of a local. Wait, so did they get into a fight Thursday night and Friday night? I don't think there was a fight Thursday night. I'm not sure. I don't think so. I don't think there was. Friday was a big one, yeah. No, there was something Thursday, but I didn't know what it was.

There was two guys branched off and did something. I don't know what that was about, but the big one was Friday. So the two sides came together to fight a local. Yeah. That's what happened. They found commonality. They roughed this guy up, I heard. Really bad.

Was he just talking shit? Was he wrong place, wrong time? Do we have a backstory on that? I've pieces of it and there's like wait was it multiple guys against one guy and they're they're yeah but the one guy did a really bad thing so that's that was the that was the issue okay so i think like there was something when they were outside some guy like ran into like like hit somebody's car like not with another car but like they hit my friend's car and i guess my friend was pretty mean about it this was the guy who set up the ocean city bachelor party thing uh and then there was like they had words and i

i don't know that i shouldn't even say this part so i won't and then um and then later on i guess he just gets my buddies just this is like an hour or two later. He just gets tackled from behind. Like I've heard of Ray Lewis esque tackle is what I've heard. And everyone's like, Oh my God. And then one of the, the New York city guys just gets on top of him and starts, starts hitting him in the head pretty hard. And so he had these big puffy hands the next day and I think everyone else was like, all right, let's go. And, and there, the guy was like spitting on people. It was just crazy. So I think they really kicked his ass. But they all banded together.

It was like a really like a union moment. And then they were all at the party the next day. And it was really, I think everything's done with those guys. I think they're like friends for life now. That's incredible. The union of marriage and then the union of New York City and the Poughkeepsie guys. Yeah, man. Two different gangs coming together.

Just a train ride away, yeah. They might hang out. They might be hanging out. Who knows? Just going to start a fight club. They're just going to start beating people up. Yeah. We were told to ask about,

you mentioned your brother. How was his date? Right, the Russian girl. Very smiley. How did it go over uh you know grandparents have questions and comments and stuff like that um i think accosted was the word one of them one of them accosted her is what i heard um yeah i don't know i mean she's just she's just shy man i don't know I don't know. And the thing that we were talking about. Somebody said she might be 40.

We've locked in 32. We've locked in 32. It's confirmed. I mean, if she said 27, I'd be like, yeah, bye-bye. Look, we saw a picture of her. I get your brother's decision. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

I expected it to be way worse. Yeah, I expected expected to be way way worse yeah isn't that bad i was like i tell your grandparents to shut up and you know we try to talk to her a lot and just like you know make her feel like welcome and stuff but i realized that you know this is like we're talking really fast i saw a video of like what english sounds like to non-english speakers and it's pretty it's pretty fast you know so like uh you know he'd say something like, yeah, I don't know.

I was talking to somebody that said they were angry about something. And she's just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you angry at me? And it's like, and then you're trying to compensate. Like, no, it's fine. It's fine. And then she's all like flustered. So it's been, it's been hard to break through the ice.

You know, we both smoke cigarettes. So I mean, we could bond over that, I guess. But I don't know. We'll get there. She's there for the whole summer. So I'll keep working on her. Just like an uncle who's uncomfortable next to her, sitting there. No one else is around.

He just looks at her and he's like, the Ukraine, huh? Yeah, so that's... No, I'm just trying to stay topical uh okay i think we have it very happy for you man thank you for happy yeah thank you how was i mean every the wife every she was happy with everything was good she was you know there were no hiccups whatever that's always yeah it was great it was great um i think i steam. She had an emo hour that was planned for music. And I just walked right up to the DJ and I was like, I think it's time for some T-Pain. And she did get steamrolled on that. But other than that, she was super, super happy with everything. But I mean, we're talking friends. The Venn diagrams couldn't really be further apart

between hers and mine. And it was just like, there was going to be, I don't know, maybe five people that were going to enjoy this Panic! at the Disco and other stuff like that. And it was just like there was going to be, I don't know, maybe five people that were going to enjoy this panic at the disco and other stuff like that. And I just kind of walked right up. I didn't even know I was doing it until I was in the DJ's ear. I'm like, all right, we're going to buy you a drink, T-Pain, and keep that moving, keep it going. And that really worked.

So other than her never getting those sad songs, it was all good. That's all right. Yeah, I like that vote all right let's segue that into a life advice about some you know protocol at a wedding five seven excuse me five ten one seventy five yeah sorry7. Seven guys catching a straight A from Saruti Chuckling. 5-10-175. Cardio body. All right. By the way, I did do yoga for the first time ever in my life.

I've never seen you happier. I've never seen Ryan happier. He called me yesterday. I hopped on the Zoom today. He was talking about it. This is incredible stuff. Yeah, but I'm not going to do the full share. Although Thursday is going to be tough too because you get a pretty loaded show.

Alright, I'm not going to do the yoga thing because we've already talked about it. Maybe we could, but we don't need to do it yet. Alright, here we go. This guy has a cardio body though, so that's good. We need a ruling on dress code at a wedding. My fiance and I went to a wedding last night where everyone was in your typical wedding attire with one exception.

One of the bridesmaids, let's call her Sarah, husband, let's call him Lance, came dressed in cargo shorts, a short-sleeved Columbia button-down. Nice. He's gone fishing? Dude, those Columbia's. They have great gear. I would love to know the Columbia business model, and then they just go, we got to keep making these SEC Columbia button-down short sleeves like I have to get one I have to get one because when I first saw them I'm like that's the worst fucking look ever and now I respect it so much because I still think

it's terrible and I'd almost want to have somebody on from Columbia be like do you understand how much money we make on those short those like shirts alone is it the same columbia jacket company yes totally yeah yeah it is an outdoors company yeah i mean it's just like a big bag essentially how could it not be comfortable i love columbia i somebody stole my jacket in college i ended up stealing a large woman's jacket instead of the place and i wore it for the rest of the year i love that thing so much they have great gear i'm not talking about the jackets. I agree with you on that stuff. These specific sort of, are you in the

military? No, I just really like South Carolina. Do you know what I'm talking about? You might not know what I'm talking about. I got to find out what it's called. Let's get the model on that one. Maybe I'll go three wide and order us all one.

All right. Sarah is obviously a close. Wait, wait, wait. All right. So cargo shorts, short sleeve Columbia. We covered it. Sneakers. According to Sarah, he does this defiantly because he doesn't like his wife, quote, ordering him to dress up.

Not really up to the wife here, Lance. Sarah is obviously. What's it called? Bahama shirt. I don't think it's short sleeves yeah it's got that it has like two different parts in the back it almost looks like velcro oh yeah it's got like vents in it right yeah yeah does it have lapels too i think let's see that that would be crazy lapels i think i've seen him with lapels anyway back to the email all right uh sarah's obviously a very close friend of the bride so to have her husband lance dressed It would be crazy. Lapels. I think I've seen him with lapels. Anyway, back to the email. All right. Sarah's obviously a very close friend of the bride, so to have her husband Lance dressed like a slob is, in my opinion,

extremely disrespectful to his wife and the wedding party. It's also important to note that Sarah's family was also at the wedding as they've known the bride since they were in grade school. Here's our dilemma. My fiancé and I are getting married in the near future, and Sarah is a good friend of ours who will be invited to the wedding however i told my fiance that if lance dressed like a slob i'd rather him not come to the wedding should we address this with sarah ahead of time to make sure lance doesn't dress like a slob do we simply not worry about this and have it not affect our wedding or do we invite sarah but not give her a plus one attached

here's a picture of lance for reference love the pod yeah this guy doesn't give a fuck no calves by the way this is mid none so i mean this is like i don't know if it's the angle here or what but it could be a zinc deficiency um there's this picture is amazing because they are like mid party. I don't know who this 511 chick is, but yeah, I mean, this guy's just like an asshole. But the idea that he's doing it to push back at the wife ordering him to do it. You're being defiant towards tradition. You know, now I've been to a few. I've been to weddings on all ends of the spectrum financially. Right. I've seen it all

um there is always kind of the social studies teacher guy that shows up in the sandals and cargo and then maybe does like some sort of weird button down hybrid thing ponytail yeah there's a great call the ponytail ratio is high and look i love social studies so you know our social our social studies teacher in high school let us call him by his first name he did not command the room got it same bob brown one of my favorite teachers of all time modern russia great class okay but was there a respect level because our guy ben just didn't seem to get enough respect he was openly a communist he would just he was he was a communist

but people liked him he was a cool guy he moved to portland uh he had like that friar john haircut too like you know like bald spot but like long and kind of like almost like the tim tebow one that they gave him but you know as a joke he had it on purpose yep that was his thing yeah but big slacks big shirt yeah it wasn't wasn't great i think like anything our emailer here has to do all the math on like what what's the hassle tally going to be is the bigger hassle telling your wife's one of her closest friends who apparently was going to be in the wedding too like Like you can come, but you don't have a plus one. All right. So that's one version. The other one is both of you aren't invited, which is going to really, I would imagine, bum out your wife's friend. And then option three is, okay, this guy looks like an asshole.

Like it matters to our emailer here it matters to him i have friends like this where it matters um they feel disrespected right over it right i think the three of us collectively would be like if you want to dress like an asshole just like an asshole i hope somebody says something to you right yeah right i don't but you know the other thing it's a bit like the Chipotle sauce thing. What if everybody wanted to dress like Lance? Next thing you know, it's a Dave Matthews concert at your place. Yes.

And you're kind of like, well, wait, this isn't. So this dude who thinks he's really just fighting back at the man. What? Okay. I would just laugh at him and be like, what a hero, what a hero this guy is and avoid the hassle of what it seems like a pretty important invite to the rest of the wedding, um, because of your wife, but you're right. Like we're on your side. I, it might just be me being older. I certainly, I don't think anybody would call me like, I, it might just be me being older. I certainly, I don't think anybody would call me like, you know, I'm certainly intense about some things, rigid about some things, but this would be, I don't know.

I, I can't, the idea of me even thinking about my make-believe wedding of where it would be and what the attire would be. Like there was one I went to in Chicago, like 10 years ago, was it the Drake? It was like a grand affair. Like that was the idea. It was like in society magazines. it was a big fucking deal if that guy showed up to that dress like this dudes may have been like you need to just leave and it was understood like you got invited to this thing this is what the people hosting the wedding wanted to be so i really

think it's kind of lame for the person to do this but you know it's up to you how which hassle lane you want to be in yeah i like a i like a little deviation like tate was wearing jordans he got a couple he got a couple uh comments on that but that like you know that's that's a thing that's done but yeah that's if you look like you're about to go like hike a trail and uh you smoke a doobie i think i don't know't know. What you said just with the Drake Hotel, how much are you spending on this wedding? Is it like my wedding where it was at a state park or a state protected thing and it's kind of close to the highway? I wouldn't be really bothered by it that much to try to alter friendships about it you know, friendships about it. Cause even like,

you know, I, I, we had that, uh, that thing on Sunday for my, for my grandfather, a lot of my family came in for that.

And just even people not getting invited to a wedding by accident, don't like it. So if you like, you know, disinvite somebody because of something, I don't know. You just, you gotta be prepared to pay for that for the rest of your time that you're

around them. So I'd, I'd kind of let it rock and just have people there be like, hey, if that guy shows up looking like an asshole, would you just make him feel a little bad about it? Yeah, that's, I mean, Ryan, you said

the three of us wouldn't really care. Yeah, it's not that I wouldn't care, but I think it would be funny because everyone would just make fun of that guy. I think you have to make him feel bad. Wait, do we have a picture of him or no? We don't have a picture of him. We do. We have a picture in the last email.

Is he a big guy? No, members, Cavs are shitty. Oh, the Cavs are shitty. Okay, that's right. Because I'm wondering if, like, I would invite him to see if he does it again. Because I wouldn't be offended by it. But he's the one that looks like the asshole. You're not the one that, people aren't going to, like, you know, look down on you because some asshole dressed like an idiot at your wedding. It's his problem, not your problem.

Right. But I get the emailers doesn't like it. So he's in a different, I guess, space than we are. But I would just get a bunch of your buddies and family members to just make fun of this guy if he comes to the next wedding. Just start calling him Big Tuna from the office and just start making fun of him. That's what I would. and then just shame him into feeling like a tuna tuna uh yeah but then you want to be a little careful because if it's a younger group here what did our guys say it was 37 um well we didn't get an age that's seven i can't stop i can't shake the sevens today yeah i don't know where the 37 came from maybe it was a different email i think it might be uh if it's a really younger crew though and you're telling your boys like you have free license to haze this guy then that's going to end up being way worse than him just looking so i just don't

honestly my biggest issue is with his rationale of it like do you not own any nice clothes have some respect right do you you do it because you're what do you think? You're the only fucking guy in the history of us walking around upright that had your lady say, can you tighten it up this weekend? You know, it's a fuck, man. I will say, like, the other side of that, though, is like the people and I've never really been to one of these. I've been to black tie weddings, but they're not really strictly really strictly enforced like i haven't been to the one you were describing in chicago ryan um but we were full tuxes and gowns like you gotta yeah but i don't know it's what the it's what the couple wanted and honestly it was fun it was cool that it was like this high

level wedding but granted it was fun it wasn't like stuffy it wasn't anything like they made but it was probably like a bunch of rich people right i'd imagine like you know we're high profile you know yeah but it was everybody was it was it was at an age though where it wasn't like if anybody was rich it was because of family money at that point like nobody was individually just wealthy at that stage of our lives but the fun thing about the wedding too is that my buddy knew just to kind of fuck with the whole thing a little bit is he invited a magician because he knew most people don't like magicians.

And so there was like a magician doing shit in them. And we're like, wait, so on top of all of this stuff, and then he like pushed and pushed. I think he had his wife okay, an Elvis impersonator. And then the funny part is, you know, like we always do is we sneak off to the side bar to just be dudes. And we found this

other room. And the Drake has a million. I'm not talking about the restaurant that's open in the morning, although that place took a hit that weekend. But that's where we ended up with the Vince Vaughn thing. And I had him on the show, started bullshitting. And then as soon as I went over to say hello, I ruined it for him. And his wife looked at me like, you're the fucking worst.

Because then like 50 people from the wedding party left one side of it. Anyway, there was another point that you were making there. It's kind of like golf, like a golf course. When people go, oh, you have to wear a collared shirt or, oh, you have to do this or you can't do this. Like, oh, that's so lame. I get people saying it's lame. Go play golf somewhere else then. You know what I mean? Like, if you don't want to accept what you think are stuffy, outdated, traditional bullshit stuff that doesn't mean anything,

okay, I might agree with you, but don't show up to that course being annoyed that it's not some municipal that doesn't give a shit about anything. Yeah, the irony, too, for the for like the anti golf apparel guys, golf apparel is like so comfortable and how to it's all just dry fit, nice, loose fitting stuff. It's like the most comfortable version of what you could wear. And if you're just going to go up there and like a ripped T-shirt, then you're just being a defined asshole at that point. Yeah, unless the course just doesn't care. Wow. Which is a place I play. Sometimes those courses are great. Yeah, unless the course just doesn't care, which is a place I play. Sometimes those courses are great. Yeah, I love courses that don't care,

but yeah, if you get a decent course, come on, have some respect. Yeah, because I've been to courses when I was younger and played, and I was pretty rough around the edges still, and then I'd show up within five minutes, like, no, you're not supposed to do that. And 20-something me is like, well, that's stupid.

The guy's like, okay, cool. Think it's stupid that. And 20 something me is like, well, it's stupid. You guys like, okay, cool. Think it's stupid and go play. When he asked, don't care. Yep. All right.

Um, all right. This one is this, this one's tough. One, because I think it might be fake, but he included a picture. All right. Let he included a picture. All right.

Let's read this one. Hello, Ryan, Steve, and newlywed Kyle. 5'9", 150, don't go to the gym. Recently rented a house in SoCal with my girlfriend of eight years and her mom so they could be close to one another. After being here for one month, she met another guy online and

instantly fell for him. After a month of her deciding what she wanted to do, she broke up with me. So to recap, our guy weighs 150. He's 5'9". Rented a house in southern california with his girlfriend and the mother a month ago the girlfriend meets a dude online and then decides i'm gonna break up with you did you know that she had already met the guy online like how's that going with steve why you were living there she was like really pushy about moving la or did you say like

hey i met this guy a month ago you didn't know about it and today i'm breaking up with you but i've known this guy for a month okay it's only been two weeks since the breakup but she's already moving out of state to be with this other guy leaving me to live with her mom for the remainder of the lease through the next through next march we still friendly, even though I'm completely lost and hurt by the sudden change, but I can't bear to even think about her new life and losing her, not to write a sob story. I'll tell you what, living with her mom isn't going to fix that anytime soon. On speakerphone with her all the time. All right.

Big question. There's another question to this. Big question. She's supposed to fly to see him for a week, but wants me to drive her 16 hours there and back so she doesn't have to fly. This is where I thought it was fake. Yeah, I don't know. Important side note. The new guy doesn't know her and I were dating or still living together and thinks I've been out of the picture for months now. Do I do it as a friend? Do I blow the lid off of it all and tell this guy her lies? Do I just suck it up and move on hoping maybe this all blows up in her face on her own with her own bad karma and maybe get her back one day? Living in, we're not going to say the town. He's living somewhere else, not much of a dating scene not sure how to even get back out there you can share the location I don't mind PS she's way out of my league

I'll enclose a photo for reference yeah I don't know she's attractive is it just a photo of her or is it the two of them the two of them together okay that's why I read it because it felt a little more real, because the photo then matched the profile thing. All right.

I'm a little thrown off, though. Oh, yeah. I guess the town he would say is, yes, it's Southern California. All right. How about do none of these things and be out by the end of the day? I know we're going to talk about lease and all these different things. Like, I don't know if you got totally worked here, but you kind of got work. I don't know if it was planned out. Like you'd have to be a really devious individual to be like, I'll date

you for a bit. You'll get us the apartment. I'll move in. My mom should be good to go. And then the second everything's settled, I'm going to fucking right so i know it's really easy for me to say i would pack up my bags but your name is on the lease here what are you gonna do pay the rent for the mom while you're gone can you go to the mom can you go to them and say hey look this is fucking ridiculous i don't want to be involved in this or are they actually gonna say to you well hey sorry dude you're on lease and honestly there's a chance that may go that way because it already sounds like they're pretty shitty people. You saying, do I ride it out and remain a friend so I could be together with her at one point? That's insane. And I know you're hurting right now, so you may be thinking of it

that way. If you truly only want to get her back, the only way to get her back is to tell her to fuck off and do nothing for her or her mom. That would be the only way. I already know who this girl is. I already know how she's wired. You got used. And the fact you're even, if this is true,

debating whether or not you should drive eight hours that way and then back to drop her off to this new dude so she could save money on flying which tells me financially that they're not exactly assets all right and that might be another reason why you're in this situation um like the balls to do that to you and then, do you mind driving me to go sleep with another guy while you're this depressed? Like, again, if this is even true, she's evil, dude. She's evil.

All right. So you need to find a way to, you know, you could sit there and I'm going to say like, oh, ask them, hey, can you just take over the lease? They're going to say no to probably all this stuff. Right. They're going to say no to all this stuff. They might start squatting. The mom might start squatting on you. Your place is going to be like Airbnb

when you go drive your ex-girlfriend. So, I don't know if you can go to the landlord. I don't know if you can explain the situation. I don't know what you can do, although I'd be willing to just risk all the credit report stuff at this point. I'd be like, I'm going to live in the low 600s for a bit. I't give a fuck i would not i would not stay another day

in this situation uh because if this is actually a real email and there's some things that tell me that it is even though it seems absurd i mean why would you let somebody do this to you why would you why would you look we all get dumped we all get betrayed maybe not all but you know you're around long enough in the game it's going to happen to you and there's always going to be times you're like you know really upset you know it's going to happen it's you're going to keep doing it long enough dating and all this kind of stuff you're going to have some some relationships you wish you'd never been involved with right but you're only allowing yourself to get worked

every day that you're still involved in this deal. So no offense, but your girlfriend's a shitty person. Like a really shitty person. Next girlfriend. Right, next girlfriend. It's not that she talked to somebody else, it happens. It's not that she broke up with you, that happens. The moving in with the mom thing, I would my brains out but you know good for you uh but then to go do you mind driving me so i

don't have to spend money on tickets that you know i'm only getting your version of events here but you know that's this is not exactly making anybody listening it this be like, no, wait, here's where he went wrong. So you have to find, you have to figure out the least painful and how willing you're, you know, all the stuff that sucks and breaking the lease and all that kind of stuff. Like least painful to most painful extraction from this. But the extraction is the most important part. Do her no favors. The fact that she even asked, the fact that you're even emailing us, like, have you been taken advantage before by people in the past? Do you think you've got taken advantage here by the entire family situation? Maybe you need to ask yourself some

tougher questions about how you are and what you allow to happen around yourself because you can't, you know, you got to get out of there, man. You got to figure out a way to get out of there. Yeah. You're the dude in this early 2000s rom-com comedy thing that hasn't met the main love interest yet like this is the beginning this is the beginning of the movie where you know she's she's caught and you know with your cousin or something like that and then you hope like old school funny yeah i hope you have like a cool funny raunchy friend who's like fuck that bitch man and like this and then you can you go we're going to daytona yeah exactly catch the early flight home yeah i hope you have stuff like that i think you should probably stop talking to her because the fact that she even the fact that she even asked you to you know to do this

drive uh suggests that maybe you've had some pretty pathetic conversations in the last month or so where she feels like comfortable enough like oh yeah i could totally do this i got this watch this and i'm not trying to be mean i just mean it sounds like maybe the vibe you're giving no be me like it just sounds like the vibe you're giving off is like i'll be available for any type of favors that you need like you know what i mean like i think uh like no matter what you said like it's fine it doesn't matter because you know we're gonna get back together one day it's just like okay uh pick me up at eight or something i don't know what you've been saying but it sounds like you should just you might not even have the strength to talk to her and not offer to do things or not be taken advantage of.

So you might have to just cut this communication off. And they do it, Ryan said, figure out a way to get out there. If you're renting a house in Southern California, I don't know if it's a shitty town, but it sounds like you probably got a little money. The difference between renting a house and a two-bedroom is actually, it's, you know, pretty sizable in a lot of places. So you might be able to get into a one bedroom and not be hurting. So I would, yeah, I would figure out, take the hit. Do not talk to this person because it sounds like you can't help it right now.

You're even the, even what you're suggesting that what's the best course of action here? Do I do it? And whatever you obviously want to get back. So you're just not, you're not in a place right now to be able to, to draw any sort of line. So I think you got to, you might have to block it, whatever. And then just start focusing on getting out of there. Cause you can't even think straight, man. I mean, her mom's, you know, her mom's in there probably in the kitchen on speakerphone asking her how she's doing, you know, old people love the speakerphone. So you're probably hearing this girl's voice like once every week at least. So you just got to get

out of there and just, yeah, take take the hit 600s are great i mean you could do a lot of stuff in the low 600s you'd be surprised you'd be surprised you'd be surprised what kind of offers are out there for a 620 the thing that the key here to me is the mom like your this girl is clearly like she's like conning you she's basically a low-level con artist in the making maybe she's on to bigger things here if the mom has also no sympathy and she's totally cool just seeing this out and staying with you until march for the for the housing situation yeah you're you're being conned like these are just two terrible people and then you need to figure out whatever situation is to get out of

that as soon as possible i will say to our guy like you know i think it's easier said than done like some guys just aren't built to be the asshole some guys are just a little especially if you're dating someone that's like way out of your league um you know you kind of want to keep it together big favor do it yeah feel good about yourself and i'm i haven't been to this extreme but i've been in that situation and like you kind of do dumb things because you're like i really like dating this hot chick because it makes me feel cool. And people look at me and they think I'm a better person. So you got to have some self-respect for yourself. But you're like, this is obviously embarrassing. She's using you. The ride thing is just...

That's an absolute hard no. If you still want to rent the house, just tell her, hey, I want to find a roommate. We're not living together. We're not together anymore. You can still stay there and figure out an exit plan plan for the mom but tell her that there needs to be an exit plan because you're not going to live with her mom for the rest of the summer and you know whatever into march um that's such a long time i gotta almost have a year it's like what nine months or something so yeah dude that's not that's just not something you can do that's just like that's gonna what do you i don't i i don't. I would feel weird if I was the mom in that situation just living with my

child's ex for almost a year after she pulls something like that. That's just a shitty person as well. Unless the mom's like the daughter. That's great. That's what I'd really like to know. Are they this evil? Is it just the daughter?

Are they like, this guy helped make sure everything could work out now we're living together and then like it's a month in she was already talking to some other guy then dumps you and then asks for a ride to his place and the mom's still going to be in there like dude we try to have an open mind about a lot of stuff but you're getting fucking worked maybe there's like a buddy who would absolutely have no problem living with an older woman that you've got and just try to get him in there and be like, maybe make her life a little weird. You know, it sounds like Kyle, you may have stumbled onto something. Sleep with the mom.

A little jealousy in the house. I thought about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Get it. Get a guy in there. He's got no shame.

You know, I'm talking about the email. I guess that would be tough. I mean, I don't know. The girl is cute. The mom. yeah it could be i guess i'm gonna guess and this isn't a knock on the emailer that because i'm that i'm that guy too i don't think he has it in him that's a that's a whole nother level of just fucking debauchery that i just some i don't know i know i know you you you would have moved out You would have figured something out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that, but again, if the guy's like the money situation, I don't know what it is. Like it's tight. I guess sometimes you got to live with what it is,

but I would have, I would have been out of there in two seconds. I can't ask my parents for much, you know, but I would definitely be like, Hey dad, I need two grand to get out of here right now. I promise you I'll get back to you. Here's what happened. He'd be like, wow, that's fucked up. Okay. Get to a Western union. Like, you know, I don't want to ask my parents for money for a lot,

but if this was the case and I, if the only reason I haven't moved out is because of money, I'd be like, dad, you really got to help me out here. I got no shame in asking this. And I think he would be like, yeah,

that's crazy. Let's, let's see what we could do here. So, um, I think that you got to get out of there. You can't say money's the way, the reason you can't.

Yeah. My father would have been so pissed at there. You can't say money's the way, the reason you can't. Yeah. My father would have been so pissed at me. I wouldn't even have called him. That's fair. I mean, it would have been super disappointing, but I think I still would have called him. Yeah.

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe that's, I probably, I don't even know. I mean, I just know I would have left. Yeah.

Somehow. I also know, I mean, dude, I'm 40. I'm not even married. I also know I wouldn't I would have left. Yeah, somehow. I also know. I mean, dude, I'm 40. I'm not even married. I also know I wouldn't move in with a girlfriend, never mind her mom. Yeah, there's a lot of steps then. Yeah, I think there's a lot of stuff that didn't happen. Okay.

All right. Good luck, buddy. Life advice. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Thanks to Saruti. And, of course, thanks to the newlywed Kyle. Fire it up for you, buddy. And we'll be back on Thursday.

And then live in New York, Gramercy Theater next week. And then a big draft show with Bill and I. So still a lot to go. And then free agency and all this other stuff. So we're still rolling around after the playoffs. so so We'll be right back. in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777

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