The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Nuggets Erase Any Doubt, LeBron Hints at Retiring, and a Heat Culture Update With Jorge Sedano. Plus, Author Hugh Howey on ‘Silo’.

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Russillo shares his Tales From the Couch from the Nuggets series-ending win over the Lakers, a look back on Denver's season, and LeBron's post-game comments hinting at retirement (0:42). Then Ryen is joined by ESPN's Jorge Sedano to discuss their views on the Nuggets now vs. at the beginning of the season, Celtics-Heat Game 4, Boston's struggles in the Miami series, Heat coach Erik Spoelstra, NBA Finals predictions, and more (23:01). Then Ryen talks with author Hugh Howey about his 'Silo' series being adapted to an Apple TV+ show, what it's like watching your book become "something else'', stories from Howey's sailing adventures, and more (1:03:06). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:24:48). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Jorge Sedano and Hugh Howey Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's podcast we break down denver going on to the nba finals lebron 48 minutes 40 points not enough so some denver stuff and a little bit on LeBron's retirement hit. We'll do that and Miami's run in the playoffs with George Sodano. And Hugh Howey is the original writer behind Silo, the new TV series on Apple. Really interesting guy. We'll do that. And a Taylor Swift edition of Life Advice. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Denver Nuggets headed to the NBA Finals.

Little tales from the couch and then what it means for Denver and kind of recapping what their run has been like the last few years. And then, of course, the LeBron part of the story from last night. Let's pick it up at halftime. Lakers, 73-58. All in for game 4 being down 0-3 Lakers historically have never

won that game by the way being down 0-3 so that continues but a lot of fight from the Lakers I was really impressed but it felt a bit like a fight where it's two fighters or just like this other one can't really beat them and even though they were up 73-58 at no point did I feel like, oh, it looks like Denver

kind of mailed this one in. Malone got a tech early. You could see they were just into it, especially when you looked at how the minutes were all dispersed, and we'll get to that a little bit later here. Some of the shooting numbers at half, Denver fine, 50-36% from three, 8 of 22. But the story was the Lakers made everything from three and had 17 free throw attempts to six for Denver. LeBron is a story in the first half, 31 points, 11 of 13 shooting, absurd. Like he just went on this stretch where you're like,

he's not going to keep making this. And then everything was going in. But then we get to the third quarter and Denver Denver ran him off the floor 36-16. Denver wanted this one. They played seven guys. No Christian Brown, who I think after a bad defensive switch in game three where it was pretty clear he got yelled at and yanked out of the game. I mean, that alone, you're going, wow, he's not even going to play his eighth guy.

Is he still pissed about a rotation potentially? Minute dispersal again, Jokic 45 minutes, Murray 43, Aaron Gordon 41, Michael Porter Jr. 41, and KCP 39 minutes. So they played their seven guys. I was looking at the third quarter after the first half for LeBron going, okay, what is he going to be able to do here? Because even with the halftime break throughout the game and really throughout certain moments in the playoffs, this is what you get when it's 20 years in. This is uncharted territory for what LeBron is doing as a player.

And I'd argue one of the most impressive things about him that I've seen even the last couple years, hell, I think I even started noticing it before the bubble season where he would have these absurd nights, great box scores, and you didn't even feel like he had to dominate the game. That's just how good he is at picking his spots, and it's happened more and more. It's just by necessity because eventually, as mythical as he is, there are going to be moments where he actually looks human, even though he didn't look human in the first half. So I felt like coasting, I don't even mean as a negative here with LeBron. I just think it's a necessity.

And he ended up scoring six points in the third quarter, but it was over the last 240 of the third. So you're looking at that part of it going, is this going to be enough? So Denver takes the lead after the third quarter run, 94-89 heading into it. I saw Celtics promo and it was weird because I went, oh, Celtics heat. By the way, heat finally favored in one of these games,

minus one and a half on FanDuel this morning. I'm looking at it going, I don't even want to watch that game. It's going to be really interesting to see a Lakers team against them. What I believe is a better opponent here fighting where I have no idea, although leaning towards,

is it going to get ugly tonight for the Celtics in Miami? Anyway, we'll worry about that tomorrow. Jeff Van Gundy kept talking about LeBron wanting him on the post more and I get his point. And so I started, you know, tracking paint touches in the fourth quarter for LeBron. Cause I thought if he's this tired, are we going to see that? Uh, are we going to see fight from somebody knowing that he's outmanned, uh, and he's not as good as their best player? Like what were we going to see? And we actually did see a lot from LeBron, I thought, in the fourth quarter. I tracked it as nine paint touches

where he had the ball in the paint area. I could be off by one there. But I do understand Van Gundy's point because every time the Lakers ran something that didn't involve LeBron getting some kind of touch, it was kind of a, you know, chunky is one of my favorite terms now for succession. There was a lot of possessions where I felt like the Lakers were getting stuck in the left corner

and then trying to figure out how to drive out of there. Schroeder had a couple. Reeves had one. Side note for the kids out there, watch Reeves on his baseline drives. He doesn't drive in a straight line all the time. You know, normally you're so excited to kind of get any baseline. Like when you were younger, they'd say never give up the baseline. And then when the players get a lot better, they're like, give up the time. You know, normally you're so excited to kind of get any baseline. Like when you were younger, they'd say never give up the baseline. And then when the players get a lot better,

they're like, give up the baseline, drive him to the baseline. It's actually something Jimmy Butler does as well as anybody in the league. And it's even better because he knows Bam is kind of trailing it and gets parallel to Butler and then finds the seam or the gap

in between where the big is trying to shut off the baseline drive, but then also worry about Bam behind him. Butler and Bam have it down as well as anybody in the league, and nobody seems to be able to figure it out. In this case, Reeves is driving to keep the ball, but he actually veers towards the paint a little bit. So it wasn't a straight line baseline drive, but what he's doing is he's creating himself some space to still finish at the hoop instead of getting stuck underneath it. Just something I noticed smart there. All right. The Lakers defense was actually terrific in the fourth quarter. They held Denver to 19 points. There were a few possessions, especially late where it's like Denver got into their action so late. And there were times, obviously, in previous years with the Nuggets

where I thought, is there enough there offensively or do they become too predictable in this two-man game that you know they're going to run the whole time? Well, it doesn't matter now because they have it down to perfection and every role player hits every open shot. And that was another story of this series where even if you thought you could get Jokic on the slow night, which they got in game three, at least the beginning, they could shut down Murray, which they thought they had in game two until he went crazy in the fourth quarter. looks are going to be there because Jokic is that hard to deal with. You're constantly,

it's not the same as the Steph Curry gravity, but it's the same principle in that you're always kind of worried about what he's going to do, which takes you away from whatever your primary thing is. And there's going to be times where you're going to see people wide open because you think, hey, we've got to help there. Or once it's on the catch or once he puts it on the floor, like we got to come over and help. We got to to come off this. Find the guy to come off of to help. And when everybody else makes their shots, this team is really special. So even with that said, I thought the Lakers defense fought really hard. Tristan Thompson minutes. Did not see that coming.

Granted, he was absolutely mauling Jokic before the catch. They're not going to call it. Keep doing it. And Tristan had the dunk where, yeah, I'll admit, I was like, oh, that's right, the dunk. And then he started kind of like talking shit. But whatever, he went out there and fought, and they needed it at that point.

But the LeBron-Van Gundy cycle of bad possessions, I almost feel guilty being critical of LeBron, but at that Van Gundy's cycle of bad possessions, I almost feel guilty being critical of LeBron. But at that time, that's what it took. So I saw people giving Van Gundy a bunch of shit about, it wasn't complaining. It was simple. Hey, the best offense is when LeBron breaks the paint, gets some kind of touch. There was an incredible play to Anthony Davis. LeBron got deep, threw it to him.

That made it a two-point game in the fourth quarter. And you're thinking, all right, they might have a chance here. Let's run through some quick plays here towards the end of the game and kind of summarize what happened here. I mentioned that pass to Anthony Davis. That made it 102-101. Jokic had two offensive fouls in a row. At one point, the Lakers left the paint wide open on the first one.

LeBron switched over. You saw it coming a mile away. There was no way they weren't going to call that a charge. And even though I don't like it in a bigger philosophical conversation about charges, it was the right call at that time. Then it was weird because I think Jokic got pissed about the charge and then just barreled into LeBron and picked up his fifth foul, which was kind of dumb at that point. The Lakers shooting from three that was absurd in the first

half was not in the second half. I think they started the second half 0-7, 0-8 from three. At four minute mark, I went, all right, LeBron is spent. He's spent. And that's why you're not getting paint touches every single possession. So even though it's the better offense, it's just not realistic. And we can sit there on the couch and be like, why doesn't this guy drive every single time? Why doesn't this guy go down on the block? It's because we consistently, I don't know, overrate, underrate, and eliminate would be wrong, but we're not practical about how exhausting basketball can be in these moments at the highest level, realizing there are going to be possessions.

Even guys in their 20s are like, I'm too tired to be able to take it to the hoop right now or set up down there. A catch is one thing, a drive is different, but I thought at four minutes he was still kind of spent. There was an Anthony Gordon cut that was almost like a tight end delay at the goal line. It was beautiful.

He knew exactly what was happening. Jokic was waiting for it. And when you have Gordon cutting against a smaller perimeter player, because what the Lakers did is they switched up their coverage where they wanted LeBron on Jamal Murray and then AD on Jokic, because once they ran into their switch, at least that point, LeBron would still be on Jokic. once they ran into their switch at least that point LeBron would still be on Jokic and then Davis may be further away from Murray but they just liked it better in the switch and I actually thought it was a smart thing by him to do but then off of that

you realize that Aaron Gordon now is going to be going against the third biggest guy now with the Lakers depending on how the matchup works there it's a much easier catch from him he gets the end one they saw it a mile away they They made eye contact. It was beautiful. Another point to be made, it's almost like the drive point. Good stuff happens when you keep moving. I know I talk about it way too much, but just seeing players cut off the ball versus other players that just when they give up the ball up, they don't want to do anything anymore. Duncan Robinson is one of the best off-ball cutters in the entire league. He is. Somebody should tell the Celtics. So it's 107-102 at this point.

LeBron had a little burst there. Got a layup. Gets to 40 points. 107-104. Jokic throws in. The Larry Bird originally called a 2, a 3 after another great defensive possession by the Lakers. That felt like it kind of broke the back there a little bit. But Reeves hit a 3. Remember they had to go back and change it. So we're still talking about a possession game. Then there was a play where Gordon was waiting to take free throws and it took forever. Part of it was reviewing if the two were three. And as I'm watching all this, the game came to almost a stop. And I started thinking, this is actually really good for LeBron

here. This is good because he's going to get a little time. He also had that possession earlier where he brought it across half court, but walked it up and waited forever. And I think it was him just trying to find rest inside of the game. There were a couple possessions there where I thought, all right, are they going to figure this out? Because they're actually getting rest time during the game, and it felt like they were freezing Gordon, and the rest weren't doing it,

but that's what it felt like as Gordon's waiting to take this massive free throw. And if I'm Mike Malone, I'd be losing it, but he had already gotten a tech because he straight up said, fuck you to the ref in the first half. He was waiting to get the tech. The tech was giving him the leash,

and then Malone just let it fly. And I was like, okay, he wanted that one. And then the ref, if there were a regular season game, I think he might've gotten tossed. At 111, 111, still a game here. Jokic finds a way to just drive through everybody against AD from the left side. And I'm just at home going, how, how does a man this big who his quickness doesn't matter his lack of quickness it's every herky jerky weird angle weird release i used to think dirk was the best bad foundation great release player like he could have everything wrong and then find a way to get square yokich doesn't even get square and he still figures out somehow to finish this one off. LeBron, after 113-111, really took forever to get the possession going

and ended up out of bounds. They had to inbound it with three and a half. He catches it on what could have been a handoff to Reeves. He drives left side. It was a brutal attempt. There's no, I mean, talk about hard. They didn't get a good look. And at the end when he wanted to try to find a way to tie it,

he drove and Murray anticipated it perfectly, came over to help, almost tied him up for a jump ball. And LeBron wasn't able to get a clean look at the rim. Denver wins. They sweep the Lakers. Okay. So a couple things that I'd like to hit on here after the fact, Denver and the doubts. I will admit I have a hard time with any team that hasn't really done anything before collectively in the playoffs. Not doubt specifically about Denver this year, but them winning the West is not surprising. I picked them against the Lakers, but I wasn't overwhelmed with them. I wasn't like, man, it's Denver and everybody else.

And that's certainly how the playoffs have played out. And when I look back, kind of the recent resume, and then for this year, they were 53 and 29. They were the one seed in what was an absurd year for the West. The road record was always a little concerning to me. They were sixth in point differential in the NBA. They were 46 and 19 at one point. They closed the season from March 8th on 7-10. After they lost April 5th to the Rockets, Malone called the team soft and said, quote, if that's how we're going to play, we're going to be out in the first round. Denver just mailed it in the last month. And unfortunately, I think it cost Jokic an MVP as well for him,

although he doesn't seem to care about any of this stuff. If you go back to recent years, back to kind of the point of like, had this team ever really done much? There's some excuses in there as well that are valid. In 19, they had 54 wins. They were the second seed. They lost to Portland in seven. No shame in that. Portland had 53 wins. They were the three seed. They were in the game behind them. In 20, they were the three seed. They lost the Western Conference Finals to the Lakers. I always would look at their defense going,

you know, I know they're pretty good. And we realized like Jokic is becoming something special. I wasn't sure where Murray would be in the ranking of guards, although that's going to take a jump even if it's not real because that's what happens when you go deep in the playoffs. But they were 16th in D that year. The next year, the Suns in four in the second round. They were 12th in D. Last year, they were a six seed.

That team was not good other than Jokic. Look at who played the majority of the games, all the injuries that they had, and they lost 4-1 to the Warriors. So there wasn't really a deep playoff run despite the Western Conference Finals, but still to lose in five games, you felt like, okay, they're right there. They're on the cusp of this. Whereas last year, Phoenix, they're right there. They're on the cusp of this. Whereas last year, Phoenix, make all the jokes you want, they played in the finals, they came back, they were

even better last year. You looked at some of the numbers, you're like, do you realize how good they've been this season? Or is this kind of a hangover of them blowing a lead against the Milwaukee Bucks and all the Chris Paul jokes? And I think it was both. And then they have even worse Dallas jokes now, but there felt like something that was more solid to build on moving forward for a team like that last year. Whereas Denver, I just wasn't sure if they'd be this dominant because I didn't think they were necessarily dominant this season. That has not been the case. All the doubt is gone. The belt is going to be Jokic is here. Now you're going to go into next season where it's going to be him being talked about unless Jimmy Butler were able to be Jokic is here. And now you're going to go into next season where it's going to be him being talked about,

unless Jimmy Butler were able to do the impossible one more time, which I'm not going to pick. I'm going to tell you right now. All right, so the other part that I feel great about for Jokic is just what happens when you go deep like this and you take out a Lakers team, because there's another element. It's not just beating somebody in the West.

It's beating the Lakers and then sweeping them. I think there's a lot of I don't know if it's listeners because I'm never quite sure where every interest lies for people that are cool enough to check in on the podcast. I imagine a lot of you are super into the NBA, into the league past, but I'm sure there's plenty of you that are not. I'd have to think there were thousands of NBA fans over the last week going, huh, this guy is that good. Like, he really is that good.

And I think Malone, who's been pretty aggressive in some of the commentary, which was weird that he was doing it, what, after game one and game two, still some work to do in the Western Conference Finals, but he's kind of letting everybody have it. And I get it. I also, like I said said with the resume for the team

it wasn't like they'd been in the finals a couple years and now they were taking the next step as this young group but for the bullshit that Jokic has dealt with for the last two years just in some corners by simply being suggested not just hey he's getting the MVP vote or he's won two MVPs. It was laughed at by some people in basketball, on TV, not on TV, to even think that Jokic was at the same level as some of the other guys. And if he wins a title,

the question is going to be the other way around. It's like, wait, is anyone else actually at his level? And so I'm happy for him and I'm happy for the Nuggets because specific to the Jokic conversation the last two years, it's been a lot of really shitty things said about a guy who is one of the game's best. And it's not debatable. It just isn't now. And I think that's good. All right. LeBron hints at retirement after the loss okay let's examine that for just a couple minutes I'll be quick about it the quote that I think everybody saw at the podium last night was this

LeBron quote just personally with me moving forward with the game of basketball I got a lot to think about right I got a lot to think about he actually repeated that a bit Dave McMenamin who's on the Lakers beat does does a great job with ESPN, was asking James after to elaborate on the statement.

When you say you got to think about stuff, what thread should we be pulling on that? James, quote, if I want to continue to play, James said. Follow-up, as in next year, quote, yeah, you would walk away. LeBron, quote, I got to think about it. Chris Haynes had this quote directly with LeBron last night saying, LeBron again, quote, I'm not simply sure or I'm simply not sure if I'll be back in the fall when the season begins, James told Bleacher Report. I have a lot to think about.

Okay, so those two are more in-depth there than the podium one that we got. My quick two cents on this. I don't think he's going to retire. After losses like this, right after the season, probably the most grueling of his career physically, which would make sense, it's probably the wrong time to start thinking about, hey, do you want to get back in the gym, get in shape, and play another 70 games and see how the playoffs work out?

I don't care who you are. I probably don't feel like doing that tomorrow. So any athlete that is this good, are. I probably don't feel like doing that tomorrow. Any athlete that is this good that has to put this much into it physically, those moments an hour after the game ended, the season has ended, is probably not the most accurate time to represent

how the person's feeling about their future. I also think with LeBron, it's always about something else. I also think with LeBron, it's always about something else. And I do think he likes to hint at his partners in basketball, meaning NBA teams, that like, hey, if you guys can't figure out how to make this team better, I'm going to hint at this stuff. So buckle up.

It could be a summer of this. I could also see an I'm back announcement at some point. I still feel like, and Brian Wynhorst said this this morning, that it has been something we've all known about now for years. LeBron really wants to play with his son, and I don't think it's impossible. I just think the draft selection and how teams would handle all that, like that in itself is a different topic altogether. But I think that'd be more important than what he was feeling last night. Because what we saw last night was another great performance. I don't care about the shots at the end.

I really don't. Denver played great defense on that last position. It's funny because if you look at his basketball reference and how I always like to bring up some of the quotes or excuse me, some of the nicknames and most that we've heard and the ones that we've never heard ever. And that's why I love the website so much. He has one where it's Benjamin Buckets. I don't think I've ever heard anybody call him that, but it actually makes sense because what we've seen now for 20 seasons is that it's the best end-to-end production we've

ever seen from an NBA player. It's not the best resume, but we're talking about somebody who, after his rookie season, has now made 19 all-NBA teams, 19 straight since his rookie year. all NBA teams. 19 straight since his rookie year. I think he likes the attention of the quote. It's not about the Nuggets, by the way. I saw plenty of that where it's like, oh, he's taken away

from the Nuggets. The Nuggets are not his problem anymore. That was about him. He doesn't have to sit there and say, well, I don't want to announce anything and take the attention away from the Nuggets. That press conference is his. But it probably has more to do with him trying to make sure he's putting everybody on notice

and maybe perhaps just being emotional at the end of this 20th season, which by any measure, I know it's not a championship, but production alone, accolades alone, the way he played this season, we've never seen anything like this.

alone, accolades alone, the way he played this season. We've never seen anything like this. George Sedano joins us from ESPN and also Sedano and Cat 4 to 7 on your 710 ESPN local dial. What's up, man? Good to see you. Same here. Love the backsplashes, I always like to tell you. I'm a big fan. I don't know if you watch the magnolia network like i do uh i'm big on uh you know that network my wife and i like

break it down like we're watching like i'm watching an nba game so i appreciate the kitchen in the rosillo household we're not going to cut this out of the interview but uh i do i do appreciate it good stuff so you're in the building last night uh yeah okay i think we all knew how good denver was but i still wasn't like hey are they gonna roll through everybody and that's exactly what's happened so i you know i don't know if uh if you agree or disagree if your opinion has changed whatsoever so i'll just ask it this way where were you with the the Nuggets a couple weeks ago? Where are you at now?

Well, as much as I was wrong about the East, I was pretty right on the West. I had Denver kind of the whole way. You know, much to the chagrin of people at my local station in LA, because as you noticed, they are the Lakers station. There's a lot of Lakers employees there. Are you the only one that picked the Nuggets?

Yeah. The lineup? Yeah. And they, I took a lot of grief, but you know, I was right. I kept telling him, honestly, since the beginning of the playoffs, they kept asking me like, who's the team? Because remember before the playoffs started, it was like, oh, the Lakers have a chance, blah, blah, blah. And they did.

They had a puncher's chance. They had LeBron and AD. But I was in on Denver mostly because I just think Jokic is at the peak of his powers. And he's the central figure of the team. And then everyone else kind of slots into a specific role, right? Jamal Murray, even though he hasn't made an all-star team, is that all-star caliber player.

Then, you know, you've got a guy, Michael Porter Jr., who could be a 20 and 10 guy on a given night. Jokic has this incredible two-man game with Aaron Gordon. And, you know, we saw that on display last night. They finally kind of took that whole Rui Hachimura, Anthony Davis playing free safety thing and, you know, put it on its head with AG last night and you know KCP right good three and D player Bruce Brown is like this mini Draymond everyone knows what they're supposed to do on a given night and I felt like with the other teams I didn't know if they had enough players they can trust at least in the Western Conference or that were healthy or the combination of one of the other. Yeah. Cause you know, it's funny when teams win, you're like, man, look at these adjustments. Look at what Darvin Ham did.

This guy's awesome. And then when you're losing and then you're putting players in and you take D'Angelo Russell out, you limit Vando. It's like, ah, he's, he's searching. It's, it's really, it's all based on if you win or if you lose, if your patterns being different are good or bad. So when I felt like the Lakers, you know, I just never felt like their third guy, you know, Reeves had awesome games. So maybe I should say their third guy was fine. And then Rui had some, some big moments too. But there was always just uncertainty where it felt like there were certainty players

three through six for Denver. 100%. That's exactly it. For the Lakers throughout the postseason, really, they had LeBron and AD giving them their level of consistency, whatever that is. I know with Davis, a lot of it on offense was being bemoaned, right? That it was lack of... Well, there was a couple games. I mean, there, a lot of it on offense was being bemoaned, right? That it was a couple games. I mean, there's a couple games where you still would hope he was going to give you 20.

But I just felt like, you know, I mean, his impact defensively was there pretty much every night for the most part. You know, so and that's honestly where I think that he's one of the guys in the sport that can make his impact on defense and win you a game still right in a big way um but yeah throughout the playoffs it was because remember austin reeves didn't have a great series against memphis and you know against the warriors you started to play a little better and and then he played very well against against denver but to your point it just felt like you know they get two guys other than LeBron and AD, but you never really knew, for the most part, which two guys it was going to be throughout

these three series. What did you learn about Jokic having the access, being around it as much as you were? He's funnier than you think he is. I think he tries to be uninteresting on purpose. And he's really funny. He just says funny things. Michael Malone told a story after game three about how Jokic kind of took over the huddle.

And I'll tell you this, because I'm buried in these teams' huddles because I was doing sidelines for radio. Unlike TV, where we have the guys mic'd up and we have cameras, I've got to be the one in there. And their huddles are incredibly vocal. And I'm not just talking about Jokic because I will talk about that for a second.

But KCP is in there all the time. And this is a guy that, you know, barely spoke when he was on other teams, right? Like he was super vocal. Murray, guys like DeAndre Jordan, you know, every single one of them, Porter, they're all communicating constantly, right? That wasn't always the case with the other series that I was doing throughout the year and throughout the playoffs. But with Jokic, he made a comment about, or Malone made the comment that he was very vocal in game three, and he called him Coach Jokic. And then he was asked about that,

and he's like, I would never want to be a coach. It's the worst job on the planet. And he goes, and yeah, I guess I was vocal. But, you know, I speak bad English. So it's even worse when I'm having to speak fast. So I don't know if they even understood what the hell I was saying. So he just has like funny little moments where he's got personality. I had him at the end of the Phoenix series. And I asked him about what he was going to do while he waited for the next series to be over. And he just said something like, yeah, he's gonna watch my buddies horses

are racing in Italy and, you know, jump in the pool with the family. And it's Mike Singer, who covers the team for the Denver Post tweeted it. And when I saw him during this series, he's like, it's like, Hey, man, you're like one of the only people that ever got anything interesting out of Jokic in any of those walk offs. So like, and I said, yeah, he's kind of funny. Like, you know, even off camera, like he'll say quirky, funny things. So I guess that's the thing I learned about him, that he does have a personality, even though he kind of like, doesn't let you into that personality very often. What was it like after LeBron, you know, hinted at potentially retiring there last night? So I turned to Mike Trudell, who's the Lakers sideline reporter.

And I said, well, that's a hell of a cliffhanger. Cause it was the last question. Right. So it was almost like, wait a second. Like I even looked up at the PR person, like, can I ask a follow-up to this because this seems absurd like he's kind of hinting at retirement and they just got up and walked out and i was just like okay and obviously chris haynes and dave mcminniman i guess flagged him down but um look i guess that you know he could retire but if you're asking me, do I think he's going to retire? My money would be on no. Okay. But it was a fascinating thing to bring up on the last question, even though he had kind of been hinting at it now that I think back at it.

When he kept getting asked about next year, he kind of like just really pushed the question aside every time. And he was asked by both Haynes and McMiniman about those things during the press conference. But I do appreciate the content, though. You know, I have plenty to talk about today on L.A. Radio. Thanks to LeBron. So shout out to him. Thank you. When I think about this Lakers season, I could both be fair and totally unfair. And I don't know, I don't know which one is the right play because let me do this for you. Okay. Because I've said this on my show, which is, if you look at their two last off seasons, they were two of the worst off seasons we've seen them have. And Rob Palenka gets a lot of credit. He did fix it with 23 games to go, and he made them look like a real team. He built a team with 23 games to go that looks like a team you should build around Anthony Davis and LeBron. Now, we can sit here and belabor whose fault it was because

everybody seemed all in on Russ at the beginning. And then after a little while, everybody was pointing fingers at each other. But, you know, I mean, that's just my view on it from kind of someone who's there all the time. They had two miserable off seasons and they were able to fix it. And they got themselves to the Western Conference Finals after a two intense start. I know that, you know, they're not the gutty little Lakers, and that's not how we look at them. But when you think about where they were and the fact that they were, what was it, six or seven games under.500 at the trade deadline or something like that, they surprised me, that's for sure i didn't think you know i thought maybe they had a puncher's chance at this but i didn't expect them to be there i'll be unfair first um you're playing if you're the lakers you're playing in regular season games to close when it's always that weird part of the

season we're like is this is this the truth right right? Is this, like, are you actually this good or are you running into teams that are packing it up? And it wasn't as bad tanking this year as people thought it would be. We've had other seasons where it's like a joke for the last month. I think one of the good examples is 18. The Sixers are basically 500.

I think they won 16 in a row to close it. And it was like, oh my God, they figured it out. And then like, you know, they didn't do anything in the playoffs again. So there are times where like, you can see a team make a run, but you're not really being told the truth about them because sometimes the scheduling part of it. But the fact that it even looked like anything compared to what it was,

was a win. So that's the part where I'd say it's fair. What's unfair, but I think worth bringing up is, okay, you play Memphis in the first round who's a mess golden state who's the best possible conversely worst possible matchup for them right on the size disadvantage and then it starts and you know this because you're in it and you're on the air every single day it felt a little like oh okay lakers figured it out like they're gonna win a title and i was like i i just don't i don't know that it feels that complete and then now if you go back which is probably unfair after

fixing it on the fly would be okay so the pieces that you brought in like really actually ended up being the best one out of the whole thing i don't even think it's debatable you know the d'angelo russell moments yeah they're cool they're cool when it's right they just don't happen enough and there's too many other moments where you're like you know then Darvin finally figures out like this guy's just has a bunch of plays in between the shot attempts that lead to losing basketball games the transition stuff that continues to happen the place for you to not have a switch being like hey it's the playoffs let me just keep track of what's happening here off a miss and figure out when to get back or even bother to like that little stuff vando who i like as a

role player always have and then you're like i don't know certain matchups he's kind of unplayable because the other team doesn't want to defend him um and then you know the mobamba health update i was like what is wrong with people like what what do you actually think is going to happen here? And then Tristan ends up playing minutes on top of everything else. I could do a very dismissive, well, dude, I mean, what did the trade really get him?

Is it worth to move a pick years from now to just go to the Western Conference Finals? But that would be wrong. I think the best way to look at it is a team that looked like had no chance actually had a chance, although less of a chance than I think than maybe the momentum that was taking this Lakers story, especially after eliminating Golden State,

where it wasn't just eliminating Golden State. It had to be that LeBron ended the dynasty, where I would rather be Golden State's roster right now going into next year than the Lakers. I think the best way to summarize it would be a team that had looked like they were dead, got another swing at it with LeBron accomplishing more in year 20 than we've ever seen before. And that's the point is that even if you're long-term, you can't really long-term plan with LeBron.

You can't waste one of his last years. You had to do everything you could. There's probably some understanding that that's what you're signing up for when he's on your team. And that it's actually for a team that has much higher standards than what just happened. It's still actually a win and a positive. That's what I think is the right way to kind of summarize. Totally. A hundred percent. The reality is when you're in the LeBron James business, you have to push the chips all in every single time, like especially now when he's older. Like you were doing that when he was young. Like you definitely.

Yeah, right. He was doing it when it made no sense for the team. Yeah. Like Cleveland's like, are you staying? Sure, we'll trade a lottery pick. And he's like, I don't know. Yeah. Speaking of, I was watching Shabazz Napier in the G League

against Scoot Henderson last night. So go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I watching Shabazz Napier in the G League against Scoot Henderson last night. So go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe Shabazz. I think I did Shabazz Napier a G League game this past season during the showcase, to your point. The manimal still playing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's the business you're in when you're in with him.

And it's why the speculation immediately went. And I saw it all over social media, is LeBron hinting at retirement so he can get Kyrie, who was sitting there baseline again at one of these games? And it's like, I don't know. Maybe. Who the hell knows? and I have had this conversation before, that in Cleveland and Miami, even to an extent, he held those teams' feet to the fire in certain ways, right? But certainly Cleveland way more than anyone else the second time, right?

And he hadn't really done that with the Lakers as not in the way that he had done it in Cleveland and even to a certain extent in Miami. And so maybe this is that moment. I don't know. You know what I mean? But it is fascinating. But I'm with you.

Yeah, Memphis, they had beaten Memphis and Golden State with this new version of the team fairly handily, I thought, during the regular season. And with the issues that Memphis had with Adams and Clark not being available, you're just missing fouls on AD. And not being built for it. Correct. As much as they think, like, the most fraudulently

we're built for this, not built for it team. Correct. I mean, just the lack of maturity, right? We can go on for hours about that. Yeah, I'm not even talking about the off-court stuff. I'm like, seriously. No, no. That team looks in the mirror

and sees something that's completely different right and it's weird because about a year or two ago i was like or even before then like i was like i'm buying a ton of memphis stock because i liked it right i like their swag i liked it but i feel like they need and matt barnes has said this before on his showtime show where they just need a real veteran on that team. And I know they had Danny Green on the team earlier this season. Yeah, but you're not playing. Playing, correct. Unless you're Adonis.

There's only one Udonis Haslam, right? And I think that's the reality of it. And the Warriors, right? You nailed it. The Lakers are a good story, considering where they were. But yeah, they had flaws. The reality is the West...

Forget about the West. Let's just do this. Let's be real. Every team, for the most part, has some level of flaws. It's why I think this season has been as strange as it's been. Everybody, even the bad teams. Boston lost to Orlando, what, two or three times this year? Everybody's got somebody that can snatch a game from you. And now in the playoffs, that's just been taken to a different level.

Okay, so speaking of strange, let's talk your Miami Heat. We have disagreed. I've even joked for a stretch there at ESPN radio. It was so Miami based for a while. It was like, I wasn't even rooting against the heat. I was rooting against you guys. Me and Levitar. Yeah.

I just got so sick of it. Uh, but then I think I came on your show recently and we may have been texting about it after the fact. Oh yeah. And it was like once. So let me just, wait, about it after the fact. Oh, yeah. And it was like once. So let me just. Wait, let me tell the story. Yeah, you just tell the story because that's the better way of doing it.

So you come on my radio show to talk about the playoffs. The playoffs are about to start. You come on. We do this like playoff preview, right? And then at the end, I say to you, by the way, I heard Bill and Mike Schur talking about being terrified of the Heat. And I'm like, this isn't the year to be terrified of the Heat. I said that.

I'm like, they're going to play. Maybe if they played you guys, yeah, it'd be tough. They're going to be tough on somebody in the first round. But they were going to play Milwaukee at that point. And I'm like, they're not going to beat Milwaukee. Maybe it goes six. Who knows? Maybe it goes seven.

But they're not that team this year. So I was out on them at that point. And then all hell breaks loose. Giannis gets hurt. They're actually, strangely enough, even when he comes back, better against them when Giannis is in the lineup than when he wasn't. And they win that series. And then I text you.

I was sitting at a Lakers playoff game. And I said, well, I guess I Lakers playoff game and I said well I guess I don't know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to the heat this year yeah seriously the Milwaukee series I felt like Harvey Keitel and bad lieutenant where I was like okay all right here we go we're like enough of this and then I still I don't know that I'd agree with you that they were better against Giannis. I mean, granted, it would play out that way. By the stats.

They were 16 points. By the stats. Yeah. For 100 possessions versus 10. Right. Well, that's because they got smoked in game two. Right. And so that's going to skew the rest of the numbers.

Yeah. And yet to see what happened to Milwaukee at the end. I mean, think about it. Milwaukee fired Bud, like considering everything that was going on in the guy's life. They're like, we're still moving on from you. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. And that was to me the biggest surprise because of the personal stuff that was going on in his life. Like, I mean, I get the meltdowns. I mean, we all saw it, right? But like in those last two games. But yeah, that was the one that I was genuinely surprised by. I wasn't surprised by Nick Nurse.

I wasn't surprised by Monty. That one surprised me. Okay. So then give me the heat breakdown. I mean, you know this team really well. How did this happen? How did this happen? Okay. So after kind of the Milwaukee

series, I started to kind of like talk to people, do a little more of a deep dive myself, right? Like I'm like, all right, I got to go down a rabbit hole here and find out what is happening here other than what my eyes are telling me. Right. So I went back and I looked at their clutch games, right right that was something someone there pointed out to me like hey we played a lot of tough games this year um and you know i think espn just updated the stat um through their last game which wasn't a clutch game but boston has a 70 chance of winning the series right right don't get me started on that because i don't even understand what's going on there.

But I've gotten that question more than anything throughout these last, you know, this last week. But they played 62 clutch games this season. They won 39 of them and there's been a handful of those

in the playoffs. The only team in, since they've been monitoring this stuff, I guess it goes back to like the 96 season or something, that has had more clutch games is the Dallas team that won with Dirk over Miami. And it was one more clutch game.

And so there's that. Right. And, you know, when, when I talked to the Miami people, they're like, you know,

we feel like, and to, to Spolster's credit, he kept saying this the entire season. Like, I know this sucks right now. Like I'm paraphrasing, right? Like basically we say like i know this sucks right now like i'm paraphrasing right like basically we say i know this sucks right now but we feel confident that when the moment comes we'll be ready and we've just been in a lot of these moments we've been through a lot

of crap and i think that push comes to shove come playoff time we'll be ready and you know i feel like all right he's just saying that know, because he's got to say that, right? But it seems like he may have had a point because in those moments, and Milwaukee is the perfect example, where they were down and they

were just like, nah, it's all good. They've had eight games during these playoffs where they've been trailing by 10 or more and they've won six of them. Um, it's crazy. So there's that part of it. The other part of it is this, a little bit of a blessing in disguise.

Tyler Hero getting hurt is a little bit of a blessing in disguise. They are way better when Tyler Hero is coming off the bench and not in that starting lineup. When he's in that starting lineup, it doesn't work. It just doesn't. I've seen it too many times. Now, I saw it this year. They also tried it the year that they got swept by Milwaukee the year after the bubble, and it just doesn't work. So I think if he does come back, I would imagine he's going to come off the bench anyway, and that will still help them some. So I think if he does come back, I would imagine he's going to come off the bench anyway, and that will still help them some. So there's that part of the equation. Oladipo, while he is a good defender, you know, I felt like Spoh loved Vic so much that it kind of clouded

his judgment a little bit. Sometimes on offense, he was mess. And it really kind of bogged things down again. And someone else who just offensively, you know, all over the place, inconsistent. So those two guys go out, unfortunately, right? Like for them, but a little bit of a blessing in disguise because now they can narrow their focus on what they want to be as a team. And similar to what we just talked about with Denver, there's this central figure, right? Jimmy Butler. Then there's the secondary guy who's like an all-star caliber player in Bam. Now, not the same as Murray, right? He's a guy who's like the Swiss Army knife on defense.

He's the backbone of their entire defense, guards one through five. You know, can bring the ball up. Not like Jokic per se, but like a poor man's diet version of that. You saw it in that high-low game in that last game, closeout game against Milwaukee, where he was literally feeding Jimmy. And you see some of that in one of the games in Boston. It might have been game two. And then they've got other guys like Kyle Lowry, right, who he's won a chip before.

He's going to do all the little things. He can lead the second unit and all these other guys that know their role. And I know everyone laments the shooting because it was terrible this year. They were 27th, I believe in three point shooting, but this was the same roster basically that was number one in shooting the previous season. So it just was odd when you watch them during the season, they had all these quality looks and they just weren't falling. And you're like, man, if they just hit an average amount of threes, they'd be a top two or three seed. And it just never happened

during the regular season. And now it just happens to be happening during the playoffs. I don't know if I think they'd be a top two or three seed only because the strength of the league this year was the top of the playoffs. I don't know if I think they'd be a top two or three seed only because the strength of the league this year was the top of the East. But maybe a four, and then maybe all the same. Because you're right. They were 27th from three, and now they're first in the playoffs. And they were first the previous year, right?

Right. The clutch games thing, I know, you know, because I was looking at it all when Bill and I did Sunday's pod and like when you add playoffs and regular seasons,

it's the most clutch games played in the NBA. Like not even just this year, it's like over a stretch or it's like top five, last whatever. You know who had the second best clutch winning percentage

in the NBA in the regular season? I do not. Boston. Oh, wow. Wow. Can we talk about kind of what's going on there a little bit? Sure.

Because I'd love to get your input. I did catch, you know, I was driving to the arena last night or yesterday, and i caught a little bit of you and bill's uh discussion um i just this is my 30 000 foot view because i've only had them a couple times this year um and i one of the games was phoenix and they destroyed them in that game like they killed phoenix that game months ago was like okay yeah you know i mean i think there was always still a fear of a healthy milwaukee which i think is a valid fear right which was what i said to you when you came on the radio show i'm like milwaukee's just gonna run through everyone and you're like i don't know about run through

everyone but that was my feeling at the time again i have zero feel for the east going into this thing much better i feel like like look if it had been an easter conference finals with milwaukee and boston i was probably picking Milwaukee. But go ahead. Right. So, you know, the thing that sticks out to me the most when I watch them, like the turnover thing is still a thing, right? Like that hasn't changed. And I feel like with Joe, just having watched them during the regular season a little bit, having had them a little bit, he just, he's going to lean offense every time. And E-May would just lean defense every time. And I think that when you do that over the course of a season,

I know that Malcolm Brogdon said the thing of like, Miami's not going to out-tough us, but that becomes part of the problem. You start to become, I think, a little bit more of a finesse team than more of a gritty team. Whereas last season, because of Emei and his leaning in towards defense, they were more of a gritty team. And I think that that's what, no matter how much, how good your offense is, at the end of the day, you got to play defense. You know, Denver, going back to them for a second, they were awful defensively the first six or seven weeks of the season. They were, I think, 23rd. a second they were awful defensively the first six or seven weeks of the season they were I think 23rd but then they were a top 10 defense from December 15th on and they were good at times defensively in this series and throughout the playoffs so

you got to be able to lean that way and I feel like maybe I would play Robert more I don't know I don't know what the answer is but I I definitely see that you can't go just offense because you've gotten to a point where Jimmy is just hunting Derek White and Grant Williams every single time now. And you're, I mean, obviously in the predicament you're in for a number of reasons, but that to me was the thing that has stuck out

the most as I watched them. Yeah, I never thought it would happen. Very dismissive of the heat covered it all on sunday and you know even with hero not being available then they lose love in game three and you know oladipo who i completely agree like i don't know unless you were really watching it a lot like he had some nights you're like man like he isn't you know then he would have like a little burst night where you know it looked it looked like, oh, is he back? And it's like, no, he's not.

I mean, he had like if the Orlando Magic was on the schedule, he was torching them. Sorry, Sir Rudy. But even even with the stuff that you're talking about. You know, the hero, like it gets to a point where you're starting to run out of dudes, and hero will have a night, if you were healthy in the playoffs, where he lights you up in a quarter, and it maybe turns the game. And Duncan Robinson, who I think people had forgotten about, is completely out of rotation.

There's little coaching stuff, sure, that I would say, oh, they've got to do a better job with that. The lack of preparation on Duncan Robinson, do you guys not remember who this guy was? It's not just closing out on him. Just don't let him cut behind you because he's so good at all this different stuff. To see Boston

quit in the second quarter of game two, and I don't say quit very often about teams because I think people like saying it because it sounds cool. It's like, oh, it sounds cool it's like oh yeah yeah yeah badass i bet you those that phrase how many times what's the over under and how many times that phrase was used either on the hub or wei after that game okay but at least this time i can't even set the number it's off the board but at least this time it's valid because you saw it you saw it in the second quarter you're like oh they broke them they broke them already and if Boston was new with this record okay fine I'm

still very surprised that a team that has actually shown some toughness in recent playoff series in the past Milwaukee getting to the finals this year being down 3-2 to philadelphia and then it kind of can turn into like the college football playoff arguments right before the selection committee gives us the final four where every single fan base finds a way to prove that nobody else has ever fucking played anybody so that we're left with 120 teams all collectively sucking at the same time you know and i know that's why i was trying to be fair about the lakers part of it because we can play that game all day where it's like well actually atlanta stinks um philly actually stinks too wait so new york's good like so what i the biggest thing you can do as a

competitor like the most rewarding feeling and that's where jimmy butler was feeling himself in game three and why he should have been feeling himself. Even if you're rooting against him, I'm sure people can't stand it because he's so aggressive, but to go, we broke them. We broke them in the second quarter of game three.

Yep. And I still think that comes down to your players more than it is your coaches. And I'm, you know, it's not saying i just am always going to default to hey the players you guys are the ones have to get yourself out of this situation and they didn't care enough to and that part is shocking yeah listen i'm with

you on that if we're assigning a blame pie um i know Mazzullo was designing, was, you know, he was, he was taking, he was trying to take the whole pie. Miami is hot. It's hot indoors as well. Yeah. He was trying to take the whole pie for himself, but I'm with you on that. At the end of the day, you gotta,

you gotta have some, you know, semblance of pride, right? And, you know, it, it, it just felt like they yeah they they knew that they were cooked in that game uh pretty quickly i will say this and i feel like missoula man listen 33 years old um it's like so i got asked this question about we got we talked about him on around the horn yesterday and i was like man, he's 33 years old and I know, what does Simmons' dad call him? I don't want to be dismissive of him.

Second bro Joe? Right, right, right. But there is something to be said about you're taking over a team that has championship aspirations at that age. It's got to be incredibly tough. Like even Spoh, man, like he had two years before he got that LeBron Wade-Bosch team

of Dwayne Wade and Michael Beasley and also a bunch of parts, right? But he at least had two years, right? You just, to be thrown into the fire like that is not easy. And the regular season is not a real litmus test for what it's going to be when you're facing these type of opponents

and the type of game plans that you're going to have game in and game out. And you're facing a guy, let's be honest at this stage, who's the best guy doing it. The last three or four years, the GMs have anointed him that. You and I have talked about this for a long time.

You were on it. And I thought, oh, he's doing his heat deal again. And I pushed back a little. I don't even think it's a conversation. And it really hasn't been for a couple of years. Yeah, it's not debatable. And it's not even just the game-to-game stuff.

It's the micro-adjustments in-game. I heard you talk about this with Bill about game two, when they were running that zone on the Celtics and Tatum was eating them up on the high ball screen. Yeah, they were getting Kevin Love into it. Yeah, and then, right, they were like, you know what, K-Love, we love you, but you got to sit.

And then they were able to kind of manage that better. The Knicks stuff. There was stuff in the Knicks series where I was like, how's Tibbs? They went one stretch where they decided no Randall and no Brunson, as much as I didn't love Randall in that series, but both were sitting

at one point, and they went zone. It looked like the Knicks were like, just hit expiration and here's the ball back. Just hit the sound. He's like Neo in the Matrix stopping bullets right now because he's seen it all you know and and it's funny because the only thing not that i hold this against him but the the randos you know the casuals would be

like well he doesn't want a title without lebron and it's like well now now looking back by the way how many super teams have we had since then that have completely failed and fizzled? Right. So that stuff is hard, too. OK, you know, there are a lot of coaches that coach great teams that don't win championships. So he won, too. And by the way, that's more than anyone else's one with LeBron in one sitting. So, yeah, I just another point for Spoh. Yeah, I just think he point for Spoh. Yeah. I just think he's at the peak of his powers right now. So that also doesn't help,

you know, the Celtics and Joe in this situation. Now look, uh, love the organization. I mean, I don't, I don't know how anyone could look at what they've done with their

development. You know, I remember I was talking to another team was like, we need to figure out a way to do some of this two way Miami miami stuff like we need to fit like they're going after a certain profile we need to like mimic what it is that they're doing because that's how good they've been at this the last time i was on here we talked about adam simon who's the guy who finds all these guys right he never gets any love right and by the way he doesn't want any of it. I think we put in for a request for him once and they were like, no, we're good. Yeah, I can see. Tim Donahue was like, sorry, Ryan. Thanks, but no thanks.

But yeah, like he's incredible. And by the way, they've got another guy that will be one of these guys coming soon. A guy named Jamal Cain, who is like two way in the G League. That's going to be their next guy. He's going to be one of those guys. They have a skinny Jokic. Well, yeah, they have Nikola Jovic, right? They have him, who they drafted this past year. I kind of liked him. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. And they like him a lot. They think he can be like this power forward. They think of him as, and this is not what they say, but like the way they described it to me was like, and again,

they didn't say it used his name, but I, the first name I thought it was like, oh, they look at him as like a Lamar Odom type at 19. That's what he is. He's got, well,

I mean, he's not Lamar Odom, but he's huge. And he's got this playmaking ability. All right. Before I let you go. Yeah. Let's just,

are you going to pick the heat against Denver? I am in seven though. I am. In seven, though. First of all, Denver is their house of horrors. They have a couple of places that have been their house of horrors. Dallas has historically been one, but nothing like Denver. But by the way, I guess most teams have had struggles in Denver historically during their times there. But I just think that my theory on all this stuff, when I think it's a toss-up, I just think that I think my theory

on all this stuff, when I think it's a toss up, I just lean coaching. And as much as I love Malone, I do. I've grown to really like him. I've spent a lot of time around him this year,

particularly because I've done like a handful of TV games in this series. I just think that, you know, what we talked about with Spoh, it's just like he's at the peak of his powers. And as long as both teams are healthy, and I think Hero will be back,

which I think will help them coming off the bench, slight nod to the Heat. And I also want to be able to come back to my hometown, so there's that. Fair. Does 1 and 150 scare you? and 150 scare you. Teams down 0-3 are now 0-150 in series. Wait, are you saying that you're like the 2004 Red Sox?

Is Kevin Millar going to give them a speech? Watching what I saw from the Celtics in Game 3, the idea that they're going to be competitive and tough tonight, I'm like, they do like making it hard on themselves. I don't know if it goes back to Boston, the energy in that crowd game five, all the pressure swings to Miami. All right, I'm doing the Simmons. It's funny you say that because I actually said this to someone after game three of the Lakers series.

I was like, Boston, I thought they'd win game three. And I'm like, they'll win game three. Miami win game four. Boston win game five. And I'll be like, uh-oh, here goes Boston, and then Jimmy will snatch their soul. Look, at the end of the day, barring a Jimmy Butler injury, I don't

see that happening. Unless Kevin Millar and the idiots all come back and give them the rah-rah speech in their locker room. Who knows? Maybe if that happens, I'll give it to you. Does Miami, the city, does it like beating Boston more than

any other city? Yes, it would be Denver, New York for sure. New York makes sense though because there's so many transplants and they're so annoyed that all the New York people are walking. But I don't know. It feels like there's an extra... it could be just in the moment.

Maybe New York is the right answer. New York's the only other answer. Yeah. I just, I don't know. Well, it's New York because you're right. Look, as someone who did talk radio there for a long time, yeah, the transplants are always there.

Every time, you know, when the Knicks were good and they would come to town, you'd hear all of a sudden your phone lines would be lit with New Yorkers. Be like, the rat, you know the knicks would when the knicks were good and they would come to town you'd hear all of a sudden your phone lines would be lit with new yorkers be like the rat you know and just like all that stuff right and and you know they they do that when the jets play they'd be like j-e-t-s jets jets jets against the dolphins it was always annoying um but here's the thing um so i think it's that i also think the city um much like we're like, we don't know what this team was.

And this is like one of the most fun, improbable runs in the city's history. And I'm not into numerology, but it is weird that the other two that I would put in that category are the 1983 Miami Hurricanes that won their first national championship with Howard Schnellenberger on that deflected two-point conversion in the Orange Bowl. That was an improbable run because they got waxed at the beginning of the year by Florida. And then Bernie Kosar and company went on a run. And then it's the 2003 Marlins after that, where nobody thought that they were going to win anything. They had Jeff Torborg as their manager, fired him, you know, 30 or 40 games into the season. And then Jack McKeon comes out of retirement smoking his stogies in the clubhouse. And they somehow go on with Dontre Willis and Josh Beckett and Miguel Cabrera and Mike Lowell to like, you know, win the World Series against the Yankees. So this one is kind of in that category.

So I feel like the fans in Miami are enjoying this. Is it because it's bought new york and boston on the way are they enjoying this one maybe more yeah i would say yes for sure well and they should uh george sudano espn 710 espn again three to seven with cap every day thanks man you got it man next time i want to come on and talk to saruti about future magic Jordan Poole. That's who I want to talk about. Next time we come on, future magic Jordan Poole with Steve Saruti on the Russillo Pod. I'm not selling my stock.

I'm just saying. I think I would take a flyer on him. Although I texted you yesterday. I've moved on to Austin Reeves, though. All right. We completely got off the rails, Russillo. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that.

You gave me the opening. Sorry. That's a good August episode. We'll put that in the books. All right, gentlemen. got off the rails, Priscilla. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. You gave me the opening. Sorry. That's a good August episode. We'll put that in the books. All right, gentlemen. Thank you for having me, as always. His name is Hugh Howey. He is the author of The Man Behind

Silo, which is now on Apple TV. New episodes every Friday night. And I would put this down. It's funny, Hugh, because I was reading some interviews. There was something you did with wired like 10 years ago where it was the silo series wool. And, um, you were like, for whatever reason, this book has resonated with non-science fiction people. And it's only one of two science fiction books I've ever read. A friend of mine was like, you might like this. It's post-apocalyptic, which usually is always automatic for me. I'll want to read or watch anything that has to do

with that. And you've created really a franchise here and you deserve a lot of congratulations. So thanks for joining us today, man. Thanks, man. Appreciate you having me. Can we get to your backstory a little bit? I know the stories and how it goes. You're some guy working at a bookstore, just a clerk and just scribbling stuff down in your spare time. But how did this start? How did it actually start for you in getting this work done? I mean, it goes back to being an avid reader when I was really young. The desire to write books started when I was like 12 or 13 years old.

But I had a hard time finishing anything I started. So it was 20 years of starting dozens of books and abandoning them before I finally wrote my first book in my early 30s. And that was really what unlocked everything for me. Just knowing I could do it was the difference. And I started writing two or three books a year. And my seventh published work was a little short story called Wool that just took off. My writing career was kind of on a very slow incline. And then when Wool came out, it just went parabolic.

And yeah, I've just been writing full-time ever since and took some time off in my 40s to go sail around the world for a bit on on a on a catamaran but once we got a couple of tv shows um in pre-production i came back to new york and i've been working on um getting these two shows off the ground ever since i know it maybe for those that don't you know understand the series and how it all worked and wool and part of the bigger project and kind of the branches off of it. But what I had read, which is the main component of all

of this, it's a world where it's a silo. It's years in the future. No one can go outside. And I would read it and I'm always thinking about the author and what part of this, because everybody has ideas, right? And then it's like, how am I going to end this? How would I

actually... Okay, so here's this world. How am I making it special? And I wondered when you had maybe the epiphany of, I need to have an element of the outside being dangerous. And it speaks to the trust and hierarchy and lawlessness and all of these things that you'd have in this component where everybody's supposed to be going in the same direction, but there's this outside fear. What was that moment like when you kind of understood, all right, here's the extra element that adds to the day-to-day of these people's lives? I think the genesis of the wall screen to the people living underground just have one view of the outside world. And it's just this massive screen up in the top floor. And I think the day that that idea was kind of planted in my mind was years before I was sailing into Cuba for the first

time. And there were all these blips coming out of Cuba, these little boat blips and chatter on the radio that I couldn't understand. And all I could think was that I was going to get shot out of the water. Because that's how, that's like the view I had of Cuba growing up in the United States back in the, you know, 80s and 90s during the Cold War. When I landed in Cuba, I found the most hospitable, welcoming people. Like they were like, do you want to stamp your passport? Because we don't have to. And just die and

pull out some Coca-Colas for them. And they're like, ah, and giving you hugs. And the whole country was like that everywhere you went. It was the friendliest, nicest people. And it was the opposite of what I'd been told. And it really made me start questioning getting your view of the world through a screen, whether it's your phone or your computer, even a newspaper, your TV. And I started thinking in this world of like Plato's cave analogy, where we just see the shadows on walls. We don't see the true shapes of things. We see these forms.

walls. We don't see the true shapes of things. We see these forms. And I was wondering, what's this doing to us that we demand negative news? That's what we are glued to. So people provide it for us. So we get caught in this loop of just watching it. And it paints a terrible view of the world that we have to dispel by traveling and going out and meeting people and seeing things for ourselves. And that's what the story is really about, is that people in the silo who are courageous enough to be optimistic about the world are deemed the enemy, you know, and that optimism has to be crushed. That is a great answer. I didn't know the backstory, and that's incredible because it makes sense because

it it's the daily anxiety of the chapters if you're reading it or if you're watching the tv show it's this it's this unknown and you're right like the people in the story throughout anybody that questions any of it they become the enemy and you're kind of you find yourself rooting for them but then at other times you're like you know it's just be a lot safer if you got in line with everybody else. You know? So when you start to actually become emotionally invested in the characters, you almost don't want them to be as curious, even though that clearly wouldn't be as interesting a story. Yeah. It's one of the things that the, the political spectrums really agree on. If you're, if you're optimistic the way I am, like you, you can't make friends anywhere. The far left has to believe

the world, environmental catastrophe and everything's going to hell. And fear is just a motivator for votes and for political action and all kinds of other things. And on the right, fear is what makes people want to stock up on guns and close borders. And it the right, you know, fear is what makes people want to like stock up on guns and close borders. And it's just if I can do anything, you know, it's just to help everyone just relax a little bit. If you look at the history of the world, we live in the safest of times. And during the pandemic, living in New York City, I was hearing so many people like, how are you? Are you OK up there? And I'm like, man, it's great. We're riding bikes around the city.

I just think you have to go outside and look at your community and look at what's around you and realize that what you're seeing on the news is not what – like I used to live in hurricane zones, and I wouldn't evacuate. I would stay in town and kind of enjoy the city while everyone else fled. And the news organizations would come in and put a camera on the one tree that was through one car. And if you weren't in town, you would think that the whole place is a war zone. And it was rarely true.

It doesn't mean that aren't bad things happening somewhere. But our filters are just designed to make us anxious. And I wish I could help people feel a lot less anxious. I'm not doing my part by making the kinds of TV shows and writing the kind of books I'm writing, that's for sure. Well, yeah, but we also understand what the game is. If everything's working out in a silo, post-apocalyptic world, then what's chapter two?

I remember sitting at a wedding years and years ago. It was a TV writer. And I just asked him, I was like, what's the job like? Once you have the idea and the execution of it and everything. And he gave me a pretty good answer, but then he kind of landed on something really, really hard. He was like, it's kind of like playing God. You're pulling the strings of every little thing. Now, especially me in my 20s, me then, certainly I'd be like, this asshole.

You write a sitcom, but this is your world and all the levers and all the things. You wonder, if I go down this road and this person makes this decision, how does it change? What was it like being in control of something like this? Because this is different than just writing some drama or some comedy. This is, this is your creation. Yeah. I feel, I feel a lot less like a God and more like a tourist, you know, even when I'm writing a story for the first time, I just want to create a world that I'm entertained by. And I'm, I'm interested in, I want to write about themes that, um, you know, keep my attention for the whole, uh whole body of work. And I want to create characters that I want to spend time with.

So the thing that's most surprising, I think, about becoming a writer is that it's a lot like reading. You're constantly, as you're writing, you're kind of turning these pages and you're getting enthralled in your own story. It's amazing how much you become a passenger on the tail. And when you're really in the flow, it doesn't even feel like you're your own story. It's amazing how much you've become a passenger on the tail end. And when you're really in the flow, it doesn't even feel like you're creating the story. It's like it's coming to you so fast

that you're just, you're uncovering something that already existed. And I think the reason that happens, most of writing is asking yourself questions and then you having the answer. And sometimes the answer can take you, you know you weeks to come up with. You might have to go on a long walk to come up with the answer for a plot or going through

this door rather than that door. But the best stories are when you're in a great state. The answers are coming as quickly as you're typing the questions. And so it's just like, you're just along for the ride. And when I'm in that zone, like I can stay up all night writing, I can wake up, you know, five o'clock in the morning and I have to go straight to my computer. So I've never really felt that kind of God complex. I've more felt like just someone who's being whisked away in their own story in a weird way. even though this is still you know there's there's plenty of stuff that happens creatively on the writing side where it's like oh didn't that get optioned or what's going on there or whatever this became such a phenomenon so quickly but yet hollywood and the way this stuff moves like the joke that i had always heard was you'd be shocked once you're on the inside of it you'd

be shocked anything ever gets made that's been my attitude what were those moments like from the history of the past decade of actually then ending up on apple tv because i know it's been long i can't even imagine the number of calls and meetings that you've had about this project and all the different variations that have come up it's been wild um it it's funny like things felt like they've moved really quickly for me. I know 10 years seems like a long time, but I've got friends whose books are classics and they've written a dozen bestseller award-winning classics that are still waiting on something to get made. It started even before the first novel was finished. I was serializing and releasing these books in parts.

Before the fifth part came out, I already had Ridley Scott and Steve's Alien and 20th Century Fox attached. And we did a deal with them. It happened while I was still working in the bookstore. I was having to excuse myself to go take phone calls. And you weren't allowed to have your phone on the bookstore floor. So I was like, I put my notice in. I was like, sorry, like, it's Ridley Scott. I'm going to go take this call. You can fire me today if you want. So like my, my success was coming so quick and the film deals all just felt like, like almost immediate. But I, even when I was doing them, I was like, well, nothing will get made. I'm just going to do the deal. Cause then I can, then I can sell more books by saying Ridley Scott's attached.

But we kept writing scripts. We kept attaching directors. And like you said, doing a lot of meetings. They would fly me out to LA and I'd meet with another director. We'd spend all day going over the book, touring lots. I was just a geek for all that stuff. Again, I felt like a tourist because I was getting to hang out with some of my heroes and go into offices that were full of sci-fi souvenirs, entire alien suits and all kinds of cool stuff. And about four or five years ago, we got the rights back from 20th Century Fox and went back out for TV.

And that was like an entire year of meetings and phone calls trying to figure out who to go with. But I've enjoyed every step of the process. I haven't had any impatience. In fact, I was really worried about the show coming out because when we announced the show, you had everyone's excitement and all you can do is like maybe disappoint them when the show lands. And so I was kind of like, let's just extend this process of everyone excited for me, but no one has seen it to be disappointed yet. But then I started hearing from people who were seeing it and saw it myself and got the first reviews,

and now I'm thrilled. What is it like handing the baby over to somebody else to write the script for this and Graham? It's a no lose situation i mean especially to have a showrunner like graham involved and um to have apple's budget amc storytelling uh you know morton's directing was just like top-notch everything but you really can't lose when you write a book and it gets adapted because if it's great you're the genius who wrote the book.

If it's terrible, the book is better. Like, you can take all the credit if it's good and you can shirk all the blame if it's terrible. So, yeah, it's impossible to lose. I've had two anxieties going into this. One is I really want readers to be happy. They've waited on this. For them, I think it's felt longer than for me.

And they've been looking forward to this. And I wanted them to really enjoy the product we came up with. So I was nervous for them. And then I was nervous for all the publishers and Apple and the people who took a huge chance on me. You want them to recoup their investment. And I think I'm satisfied both of those are going my way. So I think now I'm just enjoying the ride. I have zero anxiety.

How do you feel about the show? I think it's fantastic. I forget that I'm involved. I'm just looking forward to the next week so I can watch another episode. You don't have them ahead of time? I do, but i was given i was given the first two episodes completely done and i could have asked for the rest but the last time i saw them was in like a picture lock version um months ago and it was just like the dailies put

in the right order with like inserts on where effects were going to go and other stuff so it's not immersive it's just showing you here's what we've got. Honestly, I've been wanting to just watch it with my wife. She hasn't read the book, she knows nothing about the story. My favorite thing every week now is when we sit on the sofa and far up silo and as soon as it's done, she looks at me, she's like, we're watching it again. We never had a show like this where we're like analyzing every scene and really enjoying the characters.

Because we've been on the set, we've met, you know, all the people involved and it makes it emotional. Not just because the story is good, but because it's like people that we really care about are involved in it. I was at the bookstore at the airport last week and I just poked my head in all the time because that's what I'll do to kill time before boarding, right? See if something jumps out at me. And there wasn't a shelf. I'm talking the entire section of 12, 15 shelves of all fantasy, right? And a dude saw me looking and he was talking to himself on the way in. So that put my radar up to begin with. And then he kind of looked at me and was like,

I read almost every one of these if you need any direction. That's amazing. Right. And I was like, well, I'm definitely not getting any of them. And we're probably not going to hang out. So I tell that story because, as I mentioned at the top, this isn't normally my thing. Why do you think silo has worked with so many non-traditional science fiction

readers? I think it's because of my reading habits. Like I, I read all over the place when I, when I wrote wool, I was reading a lot of crime and thriller books to review them for a website that I was helping a friend with. And so the story has a mystery vibe. There's like a thriller aspect. I love the classics. I read a lot of nonfiction, just trying to understand our place in the world, human condition, psychology, philosophy, and history,

stuff like that. So I'm putting a lot of my personal thoughts and ruminations into the story. But for me, the heart of any good story is the characters. And I think the great sci-fi is characters you care about. And the sci-fi that doesn't interest me as much is like all about the gadget or the gizmo or the, the way the world is different. So yeah, I, when I would do readings and go to book signings,

it's amazing. The audience was never what you would think. It was such a wide, a really diverse group of readers would, were drawn to the story. And yeah, it's hard to explain. I've had that for maybe two of my series out of like the 20 books I've written.

And Sewell just like was one of those that hit a nerve with a lot of people and continues to do so a decade later. Okay, so let's go over the resume here. You got a hit show on Apple. Crushed it as a writer. Did a little more research on the sailing part, which I want to get into.

The info, I don't want to get in your business here, it says model wife, and you are not afraid of a shirts off picture. And you're ripped. Dare I say jacked. So there's a lot of good stuff there i wonder when you show up to these sci-fi conventions do the site does the sci-fi community reject you and say like oh fucking cool guy hughes here i think i've had some of both i did feel um in my first science fiction conferences i didn't feel completely accepted. I was young.

There's kind of a, and then what I realized later is there's, it's very much a network of people who know each other. They were there developing reputation with each other over the years. And it took me a while to kind of be accepted. But now some of my best friends are other writers in the genres. some of my best friends are other writers in the genres. I think what's cool about science fiction and fantasy as genres is that they're used to dealing with all kinds of stigma, that having some more isn't a big deal. I don't look like my interest.

I was in high school. I was just into Dungeons & Dragons and video games. I played sports as well, but I was kind of all over the place. I could fit in with every single click. And it might seem like I could belong anywhere, but I've never felt like I belonged anywhere. I've always felt kind of like a loner and an introvert. And maybe that's why I've loved reading and maybe that's why I like

reading a lot of different kinds of stories. But I will say once people realize you're part of their kind of tribe, the science fiction community is one of the most welcoming and friendly places you'll ever find yourself. All right, last one. Give me your best sailing adventure, maybe the hairiest moment you've had. Now, you've gone around the entire globe. Is that correct? I've done most of it, and I've gone in loops. I've done enough miles to go around a couple times,

but mostly crossing the Atlantic and the Pacific were my big adventures. I saw the Indian Ocean to knock out, which I hope to do in the next 10 years or so. Man, craziest adventure? I mean, I've almost gone overboard a couple of times when I was sailing by myself, which would be the death of you

when you're really far offshore. That's how most sailors die. They just fall overboard. And then you're treading water and watching your boat sail over the horizon. die they just fall overboard uh and then you're treading water and watching your boat sail over the horizon um i've man i i jumped in the pacific in the middle of the night one time to get a rope out of uh out of our rudder and just got mauled by a man o' war and um in the pitch black you know i'm like tied off to the boat so i don't get separated from and it was uh pretty scary and

i learned not to jump in the middle of the ocean uh naked after that because um you think there's like no sea life out there but it's full of life um and then yeah a couple of times where um big waves trying to make a repair in a rough situation by yourself and you just don't make good decisions when you're sailing alone and you're sleep deprived. And the boats breaking up around you, you just start making choices that you would never make if you were of sound mind and body. And sometimes I think about a couple of moments in particular. I get kind of a adrenaline rush even years later, just realizing how close I was to not making it home.

And it happens a lot. A lot of sailors who sail alone and don't take precautions. I didn't end up just going overboard. And even with people on board, if it happens in the middle of the night, you'll wake up and someone's gone and you can't find them. It's pretty scary. Yeah, I love the pics. I love the stories. And I appreciate the time today. And I love the stories and uh I appreciate the time today and I love the show so continued success and we look forward to every Friday on Apple TV man

thanks Ryan appreciate it man you want details bye I drive a Ferrari 355 cabriolet what up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com

What's up, dudes? Yo. Sorry I missed you guys on Sunday big night went to the Taylor Swift concert so enjoyed myself

probably get ridiculed for that but I had a great time yeah alright why don't you give us a couple minutes on that because we decided that we're going to do

a Taylor Swift based life advice because we get about 10 emails a week now because she's touring about what to do almost the dilemma

seems to be the same every time for the most part. But yeah, we have a bunch of Taylor Swift emails. And Saruti, unfortunately for him, we didn't even realize he wasn't on the Zoom. Because again, the way it works, we wouldn't always know. So Bill and I are going for two hours. Bill then asked Saruti a question. And then Kyle's like, he's off tonight. And then I hit him up and i was like what

what happened i'm like is everything all right and you were like no yeah i actually went to a taylor swift concert last night so i had to get the night off so what was uh what was the low down what was it it was great was that gillette foxborough foxborough weird place not gonna lie um tough to get in tough to get out yeah but she likes playing there I guess it's like one of her I think it was her first stadium tour she's ever done she played at Foxborough so she loves all those towns that was her third show she did Friday Saturday

Sunday Saturday it poured her keyboard broke she couldn't use that on Sunday which was you know not the end of the world but is what it is but listen no keyboard on Sunday did you go on one of the set list websites well no I didn't see so here's the thing here's the thing obviously you know swift net there's 70 000 people in that stadium i have never been to a concert where i mean just every single word to every single song people are just screaming like deep tracks no I mean

Kyle would there be enough beer and Gillette for you to handle that how many Taylor Swift songs combined are the two of you but let me just preface here so here's what happened I am not like some big Swifty and I'm not going to make fun of me it is what it is I like her music I think it's kind of weird

when guys are just like oh she sucks I don't know man she has some good bops it's fine I don't music. I think it's kind of weird when guys are just like, oh, she sucks. I don't know, man. She has some good bops. It's fine. I don't know. It's not the end of the world. I like some of her deeper tracks, too. I like Folklore. I think some of her albums are hit or miss. I didn't love Evermore. The new one, Midnight's, is pretty good, but I'm not

an elite Swifty. I was probably in the bottom 10% of fans there, easily. Did you say bops? Yeah, bops. You did. Yeah, I saw your face change when you said that. Did you say bops? Yeah, bop. He did. Yeah, I saw your face change when he said that. It's a bop. Yeah, just like, you know, you bop.

I don't think that's that weird. I just wanted to confirm. There's no further commentary on it. No. I, by the way, don't know her songs. I've heard enough. I mean, I do. You know three Taylor Swift songs?

I was thinking about this this morning. The titles? No. Kyle? No. Bad Love, right? Yep. No, no, no. Yeah, Bad Blood. Yep. Great book. Could that be it? That can't be it. I'm sure if I heard it, I'd be like,

no, if I know that. If I heard the song, I'd be like, I know. That's Miley Cyrus. Yep, just close. I knew that close i knew that i knew that dude talk about did you uh i i'm with you though i'm very anti people giving other people shit about something they enjoy other than maybe like heroin for a family member yeah that's fair i don't uh i think it's you know i would not do a meathead. Oh, that's so lame. So Rudy, you went to Taylor Swift. I think it's great. If you had a great time and the people who'd you go

with. So here, this is what happened. So my sister, she got tickets. She got lucky on ticket masters. She was like, Hey, I got in. She bought six tickets and she's like, do you want to go? My wife wanted to go. And I was like, sure. I'm in. I thought that her thought that my brother-in-law was going, her husband. He did not. So you were awake. You got broken in. And then so I found that out like probably what? I don't know, a couple months ago.

And I was like, I'm still going to go. Whatever. I don't really care. Because here's what I can kind of compare it to. Again, dudes are going to... I'm sure people are going to tweet me and be like, you're such a fucking loser. I kind of viewed it as a couple years ago. I forget what year it was.

1984? No. I had never seen LeBron play in person, right? And so I went to Boston. I went to the Garden. I saw LeBron play in the Eastern Conference Finals against the Celtics. It was game two. It was a blowout.

But I was like, that's just like a life bucket list thing I would like to check off. And I kind of feel like Taylor Swift is the same thing like is she my favorite artist no but like I can just say yeah I saw Taylor she's the biggest artist in the world like I don't know I'd want to see her like so I went and I did it and honestly didn't regret I mean like I said it sucked getting out of there because Foxborough is just a terrible but the show itself you liked it what was your age range around you all over the place all over the place. All over the place. I mean, you've got like...

Well, the crazy thing is like, I mean, she's my age. She's 34, I think. So, I mean, she's been... I've known her... Oh, 1989. 1989. Yeah. So, I was born in 88, but I was November.

So, you know, I had 13 good months in the 80s. But she... Three hours. I mean, we're talking songs from every album. And then here's the thing too is... Three hours? Three hours. Three plus hours. I mean, we're talking songs from every album. And here's the thing, too. Three hours? Three hours. Three plus hours. Actually, she goes on at eight and she finished at like 1130 almost probably. I don't know about that.

I might have been out now. No. You were into it the whole time for three and a half hours. Well, I wasn't like singing along the entire time. She had some songs I liked, some songs I didn't like. I had a couple of high noons. Yeah, we had a good time. It was a good time. A couple of Chardon of chardonnays no no come on dude i'm not i'm not a white one i'm just fucking with you we can't be doing it but uh but no i mean the songs were great she i

mean i don't know what do you want me to say like i had a good time i had fun like i don't know i'm not making that's just what it is that is long and knowing how to get in and out of foxborough and then you had to drive all the way back to Connecticut. Did your cousin go, by the way? Did not go. Did not go. How's she doing? Thanks for asking. She's great.

She's doing great. I won't. But yeah, all right. But here's the thing, too. For all the guys who are like, you're such a loser. Like, I've been to a wide variety of concerts. I've seen Lil Wayne play. I saw him at Baton Rouge.

I went to Ozzfest. So, like, I just like to go to things. He's an experienced Baton Rouge. I went to Ozzfest. I like to go to things. He's an experienced guy, Kyle. Yeah, and concerts for me, the pandemic, I know there are a lot of bad things about the pandemic, but I really miss going to see live music. I go to probably half a dozen concerts a year. I just enjoy it.

By the way, do you think we're... I enjoyed it. I'm not making fun of you at all. Don't make fun of people for enjoying things that they enjoy. Again, especially if it's not hurting anybody. Do you have any follow-ups, Kyle? Well, I was just going to ask, did your sister, right? Did she get these in the ground floor ticket master deal

where it was like the actual price of the tickets that are being sold? Yeah, we didn't pay. There was like news. I was about to say, if you're like an ad on this concert i would be like damn dude that's that was that like a 1500 ticket for you to just be like i'll tag along but it was she got in at the ground floor she did she got them we got face value price i think they were i don't know 100 you know 100 bucks a piece maybe it wasn't i mean again we were in the nose please i'm not sitting here telling you i had awesome tickets uh and honestly i would i wouldn't have

paid like a couple hundred dollars to go it was right you know it wasn't it wasn't terrible but yeah i think they were i think i want to say the cheapest ticket was like two grand to get in yeah there was like news stories about this yeah yeah so i was just curious to see which uh which version you got there so no no come on come on the most i've ever paid for a concert i think i paid like a couple hundred bucks to see the foo fighters but that was at like a 200 person arena and i found some guy on Craigslist because he was selling tickets and it was super sketchy. But yeah, I'm not

going to pay a shit ton of money. I mean, again, a hundred bucks to see her at a stadium tour where we were in the nosebleeds, sue me. It was fun. Yeah, good for you, man. Nobody's going to sue you, dude. I'm interested. What are the life advice questions about this? People just like nervous about going, like embarrassed to say they like her

it's a full scope but they all are kind of the same thing it's just dudes asking about what I should do so here we go we'll start off with this one I have to take my sister to Taylor Swift 6 foot 175 wrestled at 157 in college haven't picked up a weight since I hung it up I got roped into taking my

14 year old sister to Taylor Swift in Chicago her mom had a last minute work trip so now it's on me I'm 29 and we're mad close since I hung it up. I got roped into taking my 14-year-old sister to Taylor Swift in Chicago. Her mom had a last-minute work trip, so now it's on me. I'm 29 and we're mad close and it's going to be a cool trip. I don't really care for Swift and I don't want to deal with that shit. I have a good friend from college in Chicago

and she'd be happy to take my spot. Dick move? Do you think my sister is going to be bummed that her 29-year-old brother bailed on T-Swift? Did you know she refers to each of her albums as eras? I did. I'm not prepared for this. The name of the tour is the eras tour.

Yeah. All right. Well, look, I think there's actually a cool moment here. It sounds like you really don't want to go, but if your 14-year-old sister thinks you're awesome and thinks the world of you and is going to be bummed out, then you have to go. You have to do this, and it's going to be something that you know it's it's actually like

an awesome feeling when you have a younger sibling who just thinks you're fucking awesome because you're actually like the the child thinks the parents awesome and then that goes away right and then it's like that full circle of like later on you feel guilty you're like all right that person wasn't that bad but as the older sibling unless you're just you know a dickhead older brother uh and it doesn't sound like you are specifically here but there's also like weird you know older sister older but i'm not telling it you know the world that everybody actually gets along but if your 14 year old sister thinks you're that awesome at 29 years old and you're going to sub yourself out

for a girl that she doesn't, does she know the girl? It's like your girl from college. I'm adamant about this one. I don't think you can do that. I hope you don't. One of the coolest things, and again, you know,

maybe I'm being sappy. One of the coolest things that I did see maybe i'm being sappy one of the coolest things that i did see there was like the dads with their daughters you know and now i'm not a girl dad there are a lot of t-shirts going on there like i wasn't gonna be like hey did my dad my dad's a swifty or something like that i'm not we're not doing that wait but people are making those shirts up oh there were dads wearing oh i mean the whole there's a lot of custom gear at that there's a lot a lot of yeah there's a lot, a lot of. Yeah, there's a lot of, a lot of bedazzled situations. A lot of modifications. Yeah.

Wow. But, but one of the cool things, like, it is kind of cool to see, you know, I don't know, like a, like a 10, 12 year old girl with her dad there just seeing Taylor Swift. I don't know, man. Like, yeah, you, you, there's no question that you absolutely have to go. It's, it's not that big of a deal, man. Suck it up. Like, the worst things have been done. And she's going to be pumped to just hang out with you, see one of her favorite artists.

This is not even a question in my opinion. Kyle, would your sister have gone to Korn with you? Korn. I mean, neither of us would have went to Korn. But why do you keep saying Korn to me? I mean, that's like... You checked a lot of Korn boxes. No?

All right. I don't know. Hold on. Hold know. Hold on. Hold on. Kyle is wearing a Sob Rock t-shirt, by the way, which is a John Mayer album. So Kyle has a little bit of an eclectic soft side situation going on here. Totally. Yeah.

You know what's funny? I can't remember if it was John Mayer. I thought it was S.O.B. Rick this whole time. I didn't know when to address it. What would that have been? I don't know. Oh, I don't know when to address it. What would that have been? I don't know. Oh, I don't know.

I thought it might have been like, you know, you had a party with your son of a bitch friend, Rick, and you guys made shirts. I don't really make shirts. I don't really make shirts. I will say, I mean, I bailed on Ben Simmons one time at a concert. I just didn't answer him.

He was like, can you? Well, he doesn't show up to anything. Yeah. Well, oh, it was a concert. Different Ben Simmons. Oh. Oh, Bill's kid. Yeah kid yeah yeah when i talk about ben simmons that's who i'm usually addressing but um yeah i mean it was uh i think it was tyler the creator another rapper that i think i know and then like a bunch of rappers i didn't know and i was like there's no way i'm going to this so i just didn't answer him i think bill even hit me i was like hey do you want to go

to a concert with ben and i texted him like the next day, like, Oh, sorry, I lost my phone or something. Uh, so I just, I didn't like the idea of, of doing like basically babysitting people and being at music. I don't like, but, um, I'm just saying if you did do that, I mean, I've done it. So you wouldn't be the first side. No, I don't know if there's anything that exists in the world that I have a greater variance on between loving and hating than Tyler create Tyler, the creator. I like, I hate a strong, but there's some songs where I'm like, Nope, I'm out. Yeah. But there's some songs. Why'd you even say that, man?

What the fuck is that? Yeah. Then there's songs where I was like, this, this is so fucking good and then there's also him where i can't tell if it's just awesome or there's times i'm like that wasn't awesome did you see that interview with him in paris i don't know this guy's sitting there with tyler the creator being like you know what do you think about paris he's like paris sucks bro place smells dirty paris is mid as fuck and the guy goes what what memories what good memories do you have of a time in paris he's like bro are you listening and i don't even know if it's edited different i have seen this actually yeah and he's just like fuck you bro the guy goes

what what's the what's the best place in paris and tyler's like freaking out looking at him going and he's not freaking out because he's calm he's delivering it but he's just looking at it being like i'm dumping all over paris every time and you keep asking like positive follow-ups uh it's actually a hilarious interview but then i'm like should i think that's great or should i think like hey that's not sweet it's kind of although if. But then I'm like, should I think that's great? Or should I think like, hey, that's not sweet. It's kind of mean. Yeah, if I were interviewing him, I probably wouldn't have gone,

do you like Paris a fourth time? I may have sent something. All right, so anyway, Tyler, the creator, you bailed on that. Ben Simmons wanted to go to Tyler, the creator, what, like 14? With a kid I never met, yeah. And it was basically like, it was sort of last minute.

I could tell like he didn't have, he needed like an adult to go with him. And I think he was like, oh, my cousin will save me. And I was like, no, I don't think I will. And it was like a kid I didn't know. And there was just a bunch, there was like, I looked at the thing, it was like called like smokers fest or something. I was like, ah, man. And then I, I don't know. It was just a bunch of rappers I didn't know. And I'm like, I'm not going to enjoy this. I'm not going to enjoy this. They're going to be a bunch of Ben Simmons running around. You know, I just, I'm not into it. I'm not into it. So could he not go?

Did he end up not being able to go to anything? I don't remember. I don't think I talked to him for like a while after that, just to put some space in between. Bill, I think I talked to the next day. Cause I think Bill was just like, hey, you want to go to a concert with Ben? Like he, he did it like, hey, I got free tickets for you.

And I was like, no, no, you don't. No, you don't. That's not what you're doing. No, you don't. No, you don't. So I'm just saying, if you're like... I got free tickets for you. Do you want to take Ben and his shithead friend to Smokers Fest in Santa Monica or something? I was like, no, I don't think so.

So I just got back to him a day later. I was like, hey, sorry. It was a crazy day the other day. Anyway. I don I was like, hey, sorry. I was crazy day the other day. Anyway. I don't blame you. Yeah, I don't. I don't. That's not.

Oh, my God. I do it tomorrow. I'm just I'm just thinking about Ben's friend now in high school being like, hey, do your Kyle give you a shout out?

All right. That's as hard as I've laughed, and Kyle finds a way to do it to me. Every now and then. God, that was funny, man. Okay, we got another one here. Taylor Swift ticket drama. First time, long time. Need a worthy one.

I think I've got it. 26, 6 foot 1. Skinny One, Skinny Strong. So about two weeks ago, I won a pair of Taylor Swift box seats at a charity auction this month in my city. Got them for $3,500. Went to a good cause. Crazy price, but they're going for almost $10,000 online. So still a good deal at least. I had a girl in mind I wanted to bring.

Let's call her Tiana. Spicy. Let's do that. Yeah. Tiana and I have been friends since we graduated college. That'd be awful if everybody just starts doing super aggressively, like, unique names. Might be her actual name, dude. I don't mean it.

My college roommate. Let's say Alejandro. Now that I even said it, everybody's just going to fuck with us. Make up names. All right. So uh not smooth this entry into this one i had a girl in mind i wanted to bring all right got that um i've been friends with since we graduated college and moved to the city she actually hooked up with my roommate for a bit when we first met over the years we've become very close had a couple drunk hookups went on a few dates last year before she said she just wanted to be friends. We stayed close and hung out in the same group all the time.

Certainly flirt and go out to nice restaurants. Just the two of us sometimes. Sounds like somebody's getting a case of the waste in their times. All right. Enough backstory. So as I invite her and she's hype, she knows how much I pay. So I feel like she's aware. knows how much i paid so i feel like she's aware i'm trying to make a run for a date asked her to dinner this week and she said she

wanted to take it easy and decline no worries right but she wants to go to taylor swift right sure this weekend there was a big street festival i was with a separate group of friends and met up with her and others later in the day at a bar as i walk in there's a guy that looks like the wikipedia picture for a random hinge dude sitting next to her i'm pretty drunk at this point definitely rattled was pretty awkward because everyone kind of knows how i feel i think everyone they if you think they know how you feel they know how you feel all right yeah all right it Yeah. All right. Which is fine. Right. You know? Every now and then somebody's going to play this role. Everyone left after 15 minutes

and I went home. Next day I decided I'm just going to move on. I can't bring her to this show. I'd actually gone on a date with a co-worker of mine recently. It went well. I still kind of hug up on Tiana.

Asked her and of course she's down. I tell Tiana that I want to take a date instead of a friend and she is all caps pissed. Yeah. Saying she values our friendship asked her and of course she's down i tell tiana that i want to take a date instead of a friend and she is all caps pissed yeah saying she values our friendship and would never do this to me she values those tickets i think she's playing dumb and knows how i feel she definitely does

but brought out the elephant in the room and i said i was hoping she'd give me another shot one day but seeing her with a random hinge dude the same week made me realize that she won't. May have ruined a friendship here or possibly even lost that group. Am I really the asshole? Any way to smooth this over? I definitely should have invited her in the first place, but don't think she's totally innocent. Let me know what you guys think. Appreciate it.

I'll be quick and then we'll get to our Taylor Swift. Well, I don't know. Is this even a Taylor Swift? No, this is just general. But yeah, it could be. Yeah. I mean, is it really going to ruin the friend group? Because that's something worth preserving.

You know, post-college, mid-20s. You know, I'd have to know like what your standing was in the friend group. Is it delicate enough? Does she have more juice than you? You know, because there might be something you have to do to smooth it over to protect the friend group. But as far as the romantic part, she's given you plenty of hints that it's just not happening. It's not happening. She's had chances with you. Maybe, don't want to give you a sliver of hope here, but maybe, maybe down the road it would. But you need to mentally remove her as part of your options, right? You need to just move past it. And it means it's

going to be a little hard and you can pretend you don't care. You already know that you do care. We know that you do care. If the hinge guy bums you out that much, um, you just need to accept it. And I would work on preserving the friend group. And does that mean that you've got to give her tickets to Taylor Swift? I think there's a way to go about it. We can be like, look, you knew how I felt. Um,

obviously I feel stupid now. I too want to be friends, but I really liked this other person, whatever. And she can be, but she shouldn't be that mad. If you want to bring somebody, you have a romantic chance with,

she really shouldn't be that mad, but it is Taylor Swift. These tickets are expenses as you mentioned. So maybe all the rules are out the window here. Kyle. I think, I think generally in general, it's a bad look to be like,

it gives these backs, these guy, and especially to be like, well, because you did this thing. Now I'm like, if, if,

if, if my goal was to not bring the girl, that's not going to hook up with me and bring a girl that is going to hook up with me, I just would have went about it in a different way. You're saying you got rattled and like, you know, said stuff like that's on you. Like that, that part is, is your bad. You probably could have accomplished this without her being like, what the fuck, man, you could have, you could have done this in a different way, but you were basically like, well, because I saw you with the, because I saw a decision you made, it's clear to me now when she already told you, like, she wasn't necessarily into, you know,

being, being an item with you. So like, you know, you're basically just being an emotional weirdo from her, from her point of view. I'm not saying that's exactly what you're doing, but you're being an emotional weirdo from her point of view. And that's what the friend group, if this comes up is is going to hear. You know what I mean? So I think you totally could have had your reasoning be different. And you definitely shouldn't have brought up, well, once I saw you with a guy. It's like, what is she supposed to do?

She's not supposed to be with a guy ever in a place that you'll ever be. Otherwise, she should have known better if she wanted to go to Taylor Swift. Or already been. Yeah. So I think you can continue with this. If you want to bring that girl, like, hey, that's a pretty solid date move that not every guy could provide to a girl he's meeting for the first or dating for the first time or whatever. So I think that's some real capital you got there. And if you're like, I want to use it on something that is going to benefit me in the end in this way. I think that's totally fine. I just

think the way you said it was wrong. You might have to clean up your explanation. You might even have to apologize for your explanation, but I think you could, I think you could totally not bring this girl as long as you just, you know, maybe explain yourself a little better, maybe lie if you have to, but don't be like, don't be this emotional weirdo to her because she's not going to understand that she's going to, you know, chalk it up to you being a weirdo. I think you're right. But even if you said, hey, I have this other girl that I'm like kind of casually dating, like I want to bring her. Do you think there's any world in which she's going to take that? Well, I just I don't know.

She probably wants to go to Taylor Swift. I don't think it's going to go over well. And she'd be, oh, yeah, totally fine. Like, I don't want to go. Of course not. But it's better. No, I know. I think at the end of the day, you're still going to be in a weird spot with her. I hate to say it. I'm kind of with you. I don't like the take backsy thing. Like I just kind of think, you know, you asked her to go.

You kind of have to bring her. I don't like the excuse that you showed up at the hint. I mean, the hinge thing might have been a slap in the face. And, you know, it's obviously something to take a mental stock up for the future. But you still have plans with her. She's still your friend. She's still in your friend group. I think it's easy to say,

yeah, fuck her. Just take the new date. I kind of think you have to, I don't know. I kind of think you fuck this up. I think you have to take your original person. If Tiana met a dude with better tickets, what do you think she would do?

A hundred percent go with the guy with better tickets. Yeah. I mean, it's not fair. It just is. I mean, it's not fair. Life's not fair though. I don't know. Yeah. I got to think of like, if we're just talking Life's not fair, though. I don't know. Yeah.

I got to think of like if we're just talking friends here and my buddy was like, yeah, we're going to the we're going to the Patriots game. You know what I mean? If we're just platonic friends, he's like, God, this girl is so hot. Not romantic. Yeah, not romantic. Just buddies. He's like, I know you like Taylor Swift. I know you like Tom Brady.

I know you like Mac Jones or whatever. Whatever year this is like, we're we're going to the Patriots game on this day. And he's like, you know what? There's this girl that I met at work and I really think I got to bring her. You're right. I don't think I would understand and be like, cause it's my thing. Cause that's my thing. If it was Taylor Swift, I'd be like, yeah, all right, great. Fine. I don't give a shit. Get, do what you got to do. I guess, I guess that's bro code. If you can twist it, do a mental gymnastics in there. But if it's my thing, like, like if it was a Pats game in Gillette or something, I'd be like,

God damn it. You really fucked me, man. I'm not going to forget this. So I can see what you're saying, Steve. I think, Ryan, to your point, though, as the guest, it's not fair, like I said, but you have the flexibility to be like,

yeah, actually, I have this other thing. Find somebody else. As the person inviting someone to uninvite them it's just it's a whole different beast you're not wrong you're both not wrong on the offered up and then go actually i saw you with a dude beat it um because that could ruin a bunch of the stuff and then you know without that just in general inviting somebody deciding hey actually i'm not going to bring you he shouldn't have asked the other person from work to go while he hadn't figured out what he was doing with the first girl. I do think whenever it's something like this that feels really bad in the moment, because she's going to be pissed.

I'm saying don't. I think you need a break from this idea because you're going to have some drinks. You're going to go. You're going to start thinking, and you're going to have a great time. You're going to be dancing. You're going to be saying all the words. You're going to have, you're going to start thinking and you're going to have a great time. You'd be dancing to be saying all the words you're going to have your custom teas, you know, and then you're going to start in your head thinking like, oh, wait, like you need to remove that whole scenario from your day to day because you're kind of the concert and said, hey, I just want to be friends. And there's certain times in your life where if it's somebody that you're no longer

interested, but you like that person, you like the person, you care about their success, but you're not romantic about it at all. Like there's nothing romantic about how you feel about that person. You know, there's times where you have to be like, yeah, I actually don't want to talk to you. Like, or I don't want to do this with you. Or I don't want to do that because like you're still in a different mindset than I am.

So even though, yes, it'd be fine to go to that as friends, that's just not how you're seeing it. You're hoping that there's going to be some 180 that's going to happen. And I think our emailer here is probably going to have some weird moment on one of the slow jams. He's going to be thinking, maybe I am back in and you're not. And she wanted to use your tickets. But whenever there's something like this that can drop a crater into the friendship group, what you do need to do is kind of like preventative maintenance where in the moment when everybody's emotional about it and they're pissed off,

it may not solve anything by you going, being very forward and being like, look, I still care about you a lot. It's very clear that I do. I thought the Taylor Swift thing, it's very clear that I'm wrong about all this. So yeah,

I feel like an asshole, but there's actually somebody that I like. I screwed up. Okay. I screwed up. If I had money to get the other tickets, I would make sure you got in, but that's not realistic either. I screwed up, but I need to just admit to myself that this has never happened between you and I, and I didn't handle this well. And she still may tell you to fuck off. She still may tell the

friend group that you're a dick. They may all still agree with her. But what you've done is you started the timeline for forgiveness. And that means in a couple months, if the friend group actually does like you and wants to keep you around, even if they're mad at you and taking her side, they will know that you tried to express how you felt and that you apologized. And yet you already did it. You already did it instead of letting it linger for three months not getting invited to stuff people are talking shit about you because it's just what people do when you're the person that isn't there it's one of the greatest

Costanza things ever in Seinfeld where it's like what are you guys talking about me you know like you don't want to be the first person to leave the room because then everybody's going to talk about you I find that to be a waste of time like all right fine you're going to talk about me like I got shit to do uh I wouldn't want to live my life that way. Be like, can't, can't leave the room yet. Can't leave the room. Three dudes may talk about me after I leave, whatever, uh, planning that seed of, of understanding of forgiveness, whatever you want to call it, will help you down the road repair what needs to be repaired because you were proactive about it even if the results are not going to be felt immediately

and everybody still may be pissed at you so that might be the most important thing that you can do out of all this yeah because then you're like i'm sorry not like fuck you you're not you don't get to go now because of that guy's not even hot yeah because of Because of what you did. It's me. It's like, it's, it's my bad. And that she might even like that and be like, wow, look at this emotionally mature guy. And then,

and then you could fall back. Cause maybe, yeah, maybe she'll start liking you. Well, yeah. Cause as we know, when you fall,

when you fall back and you, and you stop, you know, stop being in their face so often, that's when they're, you know, maybe they wonder what, what you're up to.

So, you know, if, if you do have that, if you do have that one little glimpse of glimmer of hope down the road the only way you're gonna get to it is if you just fucking disappear for a little bit guy um there is nothing worse than when you have gone all out to impress somebody that you can tell is already on the fence with you about right yeah you're like oh i'm gonna do this then i'm gonna do this then i'm gonna do this and then you're just, I'm going to do this. And then I'm going to do this. And then I'm going to do this. And then you're just like from the jump start.

You're just Michael Scott giving away your bike to that girl for the party. She's like, Oh, okay. Do you want it? Yeah, sure. Uh,

anyway, uh, yeah, I think that's good anybody get anything else no i don't think so that's all right enjoy taylor swift man happy for you yeah we have like five more taylor swift emails we didn't get i'm glad i'm glad that we have listen maybe it's a quarterly thing i don't know yeah we do a quarterly taylor swift deal we should just try to get around annually yeah yeah she probably does a lot of pods right yeah nothing she's on the show on the news lately although i will say the one thing that's funny you you know how much of a jill and hall guy i am jill and hall is like my guy like love jill and hall he is he your number one uh yeah yeah i've

told over chalamet yep yeah oh yeah, yeah. Who are the one seeds? Chalamet, Gyllenhaal. Honestly, no one even really touches Gyllenhaal. I think I've told this, right? Because Gyllenhaal, he did the car wash when he was doing the Southpaw movie. He comes in, and I was producing Mike and Mike that day. That was his first car wash. It was Mike and Mike.

And usually when those guys come in, they've got this whole entourage. They've got all this shit around them,. You don't really ever talk to them. He shows up. It's like 8 in the morning. It's just him and an ESPN talent producer. And I was just in the room and I chatted him up for like 15 minutes. He was the coolest dude. He was not a dick. He was

genuinely interested. I mean, listen, he's an actor, so maybe he wasn't interested, but he played it off real well to the point where I was like do i ask this guy out for drinks in west hartford like what are we doing later like he was so fucking cool and didn't have to talk to me for two minutes it did uh so he will always be my guy and so you know for those you don't know basically like the main taylor swift breakup song is about jake jones hall uh so i was joking with my sister i was like should i wear should i wear a t-shirt with jones hall's face on it she was like no you can't do that you couldn't even do that it's like going

to a raiders game wearing the wrong shit right i mean you're like i don't know yeah is it i mean i don't know i've never been she actually told me to wear a john mayer shirt but uh which wouldn't have which would have worked out too well because she dated him he was a heartbreaker as well oh he dated everybody though you know he was like unstoppable uh but for your one seed saruti uh you know orlando bloom's jacked now i don't know if you guys are aware like unstoppable uh but for your one seed saruti uh you know orlando bloom's jacked now i don't know if you guys are aware like jacked dude i'm aware huge chest now big i saw him in carnival row a lot of shirt off action um i mean i always thought i always thought he had more to him but god damn it that man is jacked now good for him listen

legolas my favorite lord of the rings character so shout out to orlando bloom what do you got paul dano in that four slot? No, Dano is not. I like Dano, but he is. That's not different kind of actor. I love Dano. He was at the fish show. I was there. We didn't talk.

I don't know how you go up to Paul Dano. I can't fathom like, hey, you're fucking the weirdest dude ever. You're great at it. Yeah. Was Gyllenhaal prepping for Nightcrawler when he was pretending he was your buddy? No, I think Nightcrawler was before that. Just double checking.

I can back Suri up. When Gyllenhaal walked into the room with me later that day, I was like, yeah, basically we're, you know, I'm not trying to, I'm not sure, but you got 15 minutes with him.

I didn't. And that was off the air and you weren't even hosting a show so that's a moment for you that's a moment that can never ever be topped never be replaced but there is something to be said of of those a a list stars they walk into a room and they make everybody feel great while yet they're still dominating the room in whatever way they are. It's fucking weird, man. It's a weird deal. Or maybe they're just really famous

and all of us act differently and then we pretend it's them. Who knows? That's a different thought altogether. Our expectations are so low. Yeah. Let's get some scientists on for that one.

Another episode, maybe another August release. That's it for us. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve. Ryan Rusillo, Podcast Ringers, Spotify. Outro Music