The Ryen Russillo Podcast - OKC’s Suffocating Defense, Rick Carlisle’s Adjustments, and Reactions to Thibodeau's Firing With P.J. Carlesimo

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Russillo is joined by P.J. Carlesimo to break down what makes the Thunder defense so great, discuss how Rick Carlisle will make adjustments to make the Pacers more competitive, and share their thoughts on the Knicks' firing of Tom Thibodeau (1:53). Plus, Life Advice with Kyle (43:35)! Should I go on a first date in a different country? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: P.J. Carlesimo Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, Mike Wargon, and Jonathan Frias Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Get unlimited grocery delivery with PC Express Pass. Meal prep delivered. Snacks delivered. Fresh fruit delivered. Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at PCExpress.ca. Today on the podcast, we go deep dive NBA finals with BJ Carlislema who is on the call of the NBA finals for ESPN radio. So one and two in Oklahoma City, now in Indiana. And we'll talk about this Thunder defense. We'll talk at length about this Thunder defense and how much he loves what they are capable of including the various ways that they can attack you and what they do once you get into the paint.

And conversely, what that means for Halliburton and what he needs to get going. And if Siakam can get going, and if there's anything that Rick Carlisle can do is he gives us an advanced scattering report on going up against a guy like Rick Carlisle. So there's a lot of finals talk in there and all the pieces around the two headlining stars in SGA and Halliburton for both teams.

And I'm also going to ask him about Tom Thibodeau being out as the head coach of the New York Knicks and ultimately, you know, the only name that's been suggested as a possible replacement. And we've got life advice. So enjoy the pod today. You're listening to the Ryan Ruscilla podcast presented by Fandual. America's number one sportsbook has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during the NBA Finals. And with live betting, the tip-off is just the beginning. Look for the live SGP tab on the Fandual Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back and enjoy the game as you track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today to make every moment more.

The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. And listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 and older in present and select states or 18 plus in present and DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 100GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Two games in the books for the NBA finals and one of the men on the call for ESPN radio.

Guy we love having on the show, legend PJ Carlisle. How's it going, man? Good to see you. Excellent. I was looking forward to the series. You don't know, I got faked out in the Western Conference finals. I really thought Minnesota was going to give OKC a run,

and they just didn't let it happen. I mean, they had a really good win in game three, and then Thunder stepped up in game four, and that was it. It's not going to be a series. And I didn't know what to expect in this one. Obviously, Indiana stealing game one got everybody excited, like, oh, we got a series, but I'm not so sure we do yet.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Just because it's hard for me, even after just the two games completely changed the way I feel about these teams. And it starts with defense with OKC. And I said it with Bill on Sunday, I said it before the series started. I just think it's a hard defense to kind of solve there for four wins for a Pacers team

that although they have great balance, they have good depth. We saw that scoring balance in game one. It's asking a lot of that offense, I think, to get to 110 or something like that against this defense. So let's start with their defense. What do you see from the Thunder defense that gets you so excited as a former coach? It's a combination, first of all, basically the entire team is good defensively. Obviously some guys are better than others,

but I mean, they have six, seven, eight guys, right, that are really elite defenders. They guard on the perimeter better than any team in the league because they have multiple guys they can throw at you. They move their feet. They're, you know, everybody talks about Dort and, and Jalen Williams that you're talking to first and a, you know, second team, all defense players. But I mean, they got guys like Casey and Wallace, they bring Wiggins, they bring these guys off the bench. I was joking in the beginning when we first started having them, I didn't know half of their names. It didn't matter. Whoever could have had a mask on, they all had long arms.

They all moved their feet incredibly quickly. It's almost impossible for a dribbler to get by these people. They do a great job staying in front of the ball. They have the long arms. And when you get near them, whether it's one-on-one or especially if you dribble in the gap or if you get the ball into the paint, they converge on it so well and they attack the ball

better than anybody. So that combination, I think you and I talked about it the last time we were on, it's really a unique combination. They're the number one turnover team in the league. They don't turn it over themselves. They're the number one turnover team in the league. They don't turn it over themselves. They're the best in the entire NBA and they're number one in forcing turnovers. So they have this ridiculous possession advantage

almost every game. And then on top of that, their turnovers, there's, you know, I'm gonna say there's a lot of teams, but there are, you know, teams that get turnovers and really don't do anything with them. This team is exceptional how they convert turnovers. There's such a good open floor team. So again, it builds into how Sam Presti built his team.

There are a lot of guys with length, with quick feet. They have good hands and it sounds kind of simplistic, but anybody can throw the ball ahead to any of their players. It can be Holmgren or Hartenstein or any of the wings or guards, whatever you wanna call them. They can all catch the ball, they can all put it on the floor and they can all pass it. So when they come down the floor,

when they do convert these turnovers, it's an open floor, they have good hands. It's amazing. And this hands and the quickness and the quick feet are so big in the defense. I've never seen a team converge on the ball. Like I keep saying it every game, Kestie just tired of me saying it. If you throw a lob pass into the paint against this team, They're like piranhas, they just go. And it's not one guy. A lot of times they're boxes and elbows. Like somebody's playing the ball,

like Dort is all over Tyrese Halliburton, and he's doing a great job staying in front of him and not letting him penetrate. And the other four guys each have one foot in the paint. So you throw a lob pass, they front sometimes, they got a mismatch, Caruso fronts home, you know, down there. They try and throw over the top to Miles Turner. The defense gets their hand on the ball first. They're so quick to it. When you beat somebody occasionally on dribble penetration, they all converge on, you know,

most teams like only only help with one guy. They'll come with two or three guys and just rip the ball right out of your hands. They have great hands, they attack the ball. And when you're smart with it, you get finally, you know, everybody's offense, penetrate, now pitch to a three point shooter. They close on three point shooters better than any team in the league.

So like, you make the pass and you go, OK, we got an open three. You don't. It becomes a contested three or it becomes a guy closing on the guy who caught the ball thinking he had a three. And it either ends up being like an off balance or trying to fake the guy out or they run him off the line. So it's like just time after time after time they put so much pressure on the ball handler or the guy trying to catch the ball. It's really there is good a defensive team I've ever seen in the NBA right? They're different.

You know there's been other great teams but I've never seen anybody play the way they play and just distort every game with this defensive quickness and aggressiveness. So you look at game one even with this defensive quickness and aggressiveness. So you look at Game 1, even with all the turnovers and everything, the thing that kept Indiana in this is the lack of points off of turnovers for OKC and then plus 17 in the rebounding edge. The Pacers had 56 rebounds to 35 rebounds in Game 2. And then the Thunder win that edge. Hartenstein plays 22 minutes. It felt like they were trending in a less Hartenstein

minute thing, whether it was Minnesota, whether it was this series, and maybe that was their comfort with Chet with him having a couple of huge moments in the playoffs. Like I was wondering if that was where the balance was. There was also some stuff where I wondered if the Pacers just started hunting Hartenstein too much. All I would say is I've liked the big lineups. I've liked the Hartenstein minutes arguably more

than I'd like the Chet minutes. And it's just, I mean, obviously it's an amazing luxury to have. And we'd see what the minutes were if this were a more competitive game too. Maybe he's at 25 or 26. How would you characterize how you feel about the big rotation, the double big, and something that clearly Dagnall didn't want to start this series with by going with Wallace in game one and two? I was shocked, I was shocked as strong. I was surprised when he changed the lineup in game one. Like we, you know, we had, they were going to change it

and Kesty said, what do you think? And I said, well, let me say A, every button that Mark Dagnall has pushed for the last two years, basically, has been the right button. So I said, like, you know, I'm a little reluctant to second guess him because he knows his team and his,

the way they changed the lineup is amazing. And a lot of us, myself included, just assumed because they had started that double big for the first 16 games of the playoffs. They said, well, that's, that's the way they were playing. Then when you go back and we looked at, I'm trying to scramble, we're getting ready to start the game. Only half of the games in April, only half of the games in March, only half of the games in February, did they start those two bigs? Kacen Wallace started 43 games in a regular season. Everybody said, well, yeah, that's because Chet and Isaiah were hurt at different times.

That's not why. He had them healthy for a while too, and he just didn't do it all the time. It was interesting. They get to the playoffs and they keep that same double big lineup for 16 games. And I'm going, man, they're winning, they're dominating. They've absolutely been the best team in the league. Why would they make the first move and go smaller? Now, obviously he did it because of the matchups.

He liked the deep. Kason Wallace is beyond an exceptional defender. He's probably the best, as good as Dort is and Caruso is, Kason Wallace might be the best defender on the team. But to me, it didn't, I don't think it was a factor in the game, but it backfired to me. Chet had a terrible game.

Chet had his poorest game in the playoffs the whole time. Isaiah played much better off the bench than Chet did. And you talked about the rebounding difference in the two games. It was like night and day. It's 56-39 in game one, Indiana. And then in game two, it goes 43-35 in favor of the Thunder. I thought Hartenstein played much better.

And I thought the matchups were still okay. They can put Isaiah on a know, on a big, they can move Chet over. Chet can play Pascal Siakam, but I just didn't, I really didn't care for it. And it seemed in game one that maybe playing as much five as he was playing didn't suit Chet that particular game. Now it may have been,

he just didn't have a really good game because he bounced back with a really strong game in game two. But I was very surprised that Mark did it. I was surprised he finished the game one with that lineup. He came back to it, the two bigs, a little bit more in game two. I still like them better with the two bigs because Chet moves his feet so well,

he can guard almost anybody out on the floor and they both pass the ball so well. Isaiah in particular, he's such a good high post passer. I think I remember you and I talking last year when he played against these Pacers he was so good for the Knicks. I mean he was killing them on the offensive glass. He was picking him apart with his passing. The team is so deep and it's really funny that, like, I don't know what goes into Mark's head. It's hard. To me, one of the biggest challenges when you were coaching was to find a rotation because

the players were always, I want to know when I'm going to go in the game, kind of game to game. They love it when they can anticipate, oh when I'm going to go in the game, like, you know, kind of game to game. They love it when they can anticipate, oh, I'm going to go in at the nine minute mark or the second court that he just turns and you don't know who he's winging in there. I mean, Williams was the best player on the floor in the second game. You never know who he's bringing in because of a matchup, because of a particular thing he thinks they need, and it works.

The team is so deep, so versatile. And again, the thing that jumps out at me, they also shoot threes. They're not shooting threes well in the playoffs, which is interesting, because they were a pretty good three-point shooting team regular season. They've actually struggled in the playoffs

with their three-point shooting, and they've been so good, it hasn't mattered. They picked up, I would have called them a lousy offensive rebounding team and a good three point shooting team. And in the playoffs, they've been a fair at best three point shooting team and they're doing a much better job on the offensive glass.

So, you know, go figure it. The team is so versatile. I just love the way it's put together. And I love the way it truly doesn't matter. I mean, they come out of a timeout and I'll be like, you know, Elbon Kesti saying, they just brought in, who knows, Caruso and Wiggins, you know, and how does that change them?

It doesn't matter. Whoever comes in can guard. And you see Tyrese Aliburton, it's like he's the Energizer buddy outside the three point line. He's dribbling everywhere, but he can't get by these guys. That's how good they are. Like a guy like Halliburton has trouble getting by them.

So Dort, to me, I said it the other night, which is the way we would always try and teach defense. I said it's like looking in a mirror. If the guy's a good defender, when you look in a mirror, you know, he's right dead in front of you. Dort and Caruso are always in front of their man, whoever they're guarding. And they're usually guarding the best player.

But it's the same with the other guys. Pascal is having trouble. He had one little spurt in game two where he put his head down and got by twice. But so many of these other guys, like, you can see that like they paw at the ground and they think they're going to beat the guy and they go one step hard. And the guy is right in front of them. And they're physical. You and I talked about this.

They're a very physical team. They're a very handsy team, but they're so good at it. And because they maintain position, you know, because they're so good at it. And because they maintain position, because they're between the ball and the basket, I think they get away with being a lot more physical. Like you start to get by me and I grab you, it looks like you have an advantage and I'm now like reacting and trying. When you stay in front of the ball, you got more leeway.

Like if I keep staying between you and the basket and I reach in, the refs aren't have to call it as much. They can bump more. They can grab more because they maintain defensive position better than any team in the league. There's a play and it's totally irrelevant, but it just made me laugh because Nemhart had Dort in the paint and was trying to post him. And it was so pointless that he actually jumped in him.

Like a kid would jump into a mattress that was like leaning up against the wall just to see what would happen. Exactly. He jumps in a door and like bounces back and doors kind of look at him. OK, the door's not moving. The door's not going to move. Not moving. OK, so let's look, the Pacers are still 1-1 here.

Really, we both like the Thunder. There's still one one here. Um, we both like the thunder. So I think the Halliburton stuff, his final stat line looks a lot better than his game. He had a poor game too. He, he, he came alive in game four and I'm sure that's a little, little better than the four mindset going in. But I mean, he had a poor, poor game. What he did in the fourth quarter was

irrelevant. Okay. So what did you see as far as like his approach to it? Cause granted it is part of the thunder and here I was complimenting Carlisle and Halliburton and the Pacers for game one of something that I've seen with Halliburton that where he's a willing off the ball guy, because if you just bring him across half court and having him initiating everything, then there's maybe there's a trap and maybe you're getting into your possession a little too much too late into the shot clock.

And if you're consistently doing that, now you're kind of like, all right, this is one less pass. We can probably make if something gets cut off here against this defense. So what are you seeing in game two that you think gotten the way of him having what we think is, a guy has been on a run here. Well, okay see did what they did in a lot of games this year They got it going on both ends. They were so efficient

Offensively that Indiana was repeatedly taking the ball out of bounds Again, it's a team that doesn't turn the ball over like everybody, you know There it's a great word actually because I never remember hearing it the first 40 years I coached downhill playing downhill. You very seldom get to play downhill against Indiana. They're efficient offensively. They put the ball in the basket and Indiana was constantly taking the ball out of bounds more so than they did in game one because they just cut them up. So A, they're taking the ball out of bounds. B, I think OKC, as they normally do, had like three turnovers in the first half.

So there's no breakaways, there's none of that going on. On top of that, OKC, when they missed, was doing a really effective job getting second shots. So it was like, it just felt that the whole first half in particular, first half of game two, Indiana is playing to get their back, the defense is set up, they got no shot. I mean, they're like trying to run half court offense.

Everything is happening outside the three point line. Halley had a great quote. I don't think we had him until game two, but he said, I was too antsy in the first half of game one and the entire game I was getting off the ball too soon. And he almost looks like, you know, like you're a, you're a bench player and you're in the game and they throw you the ball and you maybe take a dribble and then you give it to somebody else. It's like, you know, you don't really want to do anything

with it. If you watch him, he's gotten off the ball way too much in this series because he gets it, there's kind of nowhere to go or he takes a quick look and it's not there. And those guys are in front of him. The other thing, if you picture Halliburton in this series,

and it's really true of everybody that plays against OKC, but picture how many times he's caught the ball out near half court. Like he's not getting the ball three point line or closer on the wing like an ISO. It seems he's always catching the ball going away, going toward half court or going laterally across the top of the defense. He's like 35 feet away from the basket all the time. And when he does try and probe, particularly when,

and they switch a lot, but especially when it's Dort and Caruso or Kays and Wallace guarding him, he's got nowhere to go. As good as he is, it's really hard for him to penetrate, particularly from 38 feet. I mean, they're so far outside. So I think they've got him so far away from the basket. I think their offense was so efficient in the first half.

They were efficient in the second half. Also, I didn't think they defended well. I'm dying to talk to Mark Dagnall this afternoon. We do our interviews in about an hour about whether he felt because I thought the first half, their offense was very, very good. Their defense was exceptional. Indiana couldn't get anything. He felt, because I thought the first half, their offense was very, very good. Their defense was exceptional. Indiana couldn't get anything.

I thought in the second half, Indiana again, Indiana scored 66 points in both second halves, second half of game one and second half of game two. The difference was second half of game one, they stopped in the fourth quarter, they stopped OKC. Game two was like 66, 64. It didn't matter. I didn't think OKC defended nearly as well. I'm curious whether Mark felt they just slipped a little bit.

And I thought they won their game with their offense in the second half. Again, they won game one, but I mean, like they trailed, I think it was 12 at halftime in the first game, 18 or 19 halftime of the second game. Like they have these ridiculous deficits and you're saying, okay, well, they're never out of it. They can get back in it.

Man, it's hard to get behind 15, 20 points against a good team. And they were down nine after three in game one, which was okay. Single digits, not bad. They were down 19 in game two after three. So they're just okay. See, to me, didn't defend well in the second half, but they scored virtually every time they had the ball. So it didn't matter. All they did was trade baskets with

them. The NBA finals are here and it's all come down to this and Fandel's turning the excitement up even more with an all customer profit boost for every game of the series as if you needed another reason to root for a game seven. Use your profit boost to bet which team will win, who's going to drop 30 or you can build a parlay for a shot at an even bigger payday. If your bet wins, you'll win even bigger and then you can do it all again the next game. I'm going to be pretty straightforward with this one. Right now the line on FanDuel is Oklahoma City minus five. The total is 228 and a half.

If you're looking at this series, it was 221. Your total for the first game. And then we get to 230 with what was probably just like a little bit more of a wide open pace. This game is just getting away from everybody. Well, I guess you got to wait for the paces to understand the points. So total there were on 230.

I think a lot of people, I think the number, instead of being in the low two 20s for this one, the expectation that paces are gonna be home, they're gonna be able to run it more. I'm gonna go the other way on that. So I'm gonna go under 228 and a half. So you package those together, That is plus 232. Again, Thunder minus five.

Just looks so much nicer having a minus five next to Oklahoma City's name in an NBA playoff game than the other monstrous numbers that are usually out there. If you don't already have FanDuel, it's not too late to get in on the action. Just visit fanduel.com slash Ryan RYE to join today. That's fanduel.com slash Ryan RYE and to claim your profit boost for each and every game this NBA Finals make every moment more with FanDuel the official sports betting partner of the NBA must be 21 and older and present in

select states or 18 plus and present in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt-in required, bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens, restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at Sportsbook.Fandel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If there's one thing I love about my Apple Card right now, it's how good it is for my wallet.

No joke, I can earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase in any category when I use my Apple Card with Apple Pay. Food, sports, travel. The list goes on. And this card is designed to help you pay off your balance faster with smart payment suggestions. When's the last time your credit card did that for you? Take control of your finances. Apply for the Apple Card and the Wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and more at applecar.com. The third quarter was a free throw fest too. So I think that ends it.

And it kind of went both ways. Like early on Pacers are getting into the bonus. They were going big. It felt like they were fouling because there was like a size thing that it felt like the Pacers are going to go to here and they fouled Turner a few times. They ran the offense through Turner in the beginning. Even though the quarter ends up being 33-34, that was actually impressive that OKC had won that quarter because the way it started. 4-0. Both of them. He had the two it started. Four-oh, both of you had the two quarters flip. It was four-oh fouls against OKC in the one quarter, four-oh fouls against Indiana in the fourth.

I mean, it was unbelievable, but, and that's, I don't think it's been- It took so long, PJ, so I don't know. I think sometimes it's hard to stay in that defensive intensity- Yes. When that quarter is just, a whistle every possession in it.

And I think time-wise, that quarter must have easily taken longer than every other quarter. Yeah, and you know in it. And I think time wise, that quarter must have easily taken longer than every other quarter. Yeah, and you know, it's funny too, right? I thought officiating and it still may be, I don't think it's been a big factor yet. Rick was really upset in game two, but I keep going back to Indiana's 16th in fouls.

They're the last in fouls. Most fouls committed in the playoffs. OKC's 13. So there's fouls all over the place with these two teams. They don't just, you know, kind of guard you like this. They're not soft. They're both coming at you. They both would prefer to pick up full court

anytime they can. The other thing, I want to finish my thought, but I got to mention before, what was really strange in game one, there was an inordinate amount of dead ball turnovers. Indiana turned the ball over so many times with violations or passes out of bounds that the OKC wasn't flying down the floor the way they normally were because it just as luck would have it, there weren't as many live ball turnovers in that game one. I kept saying we should chart it. Actually, I kept saying to Kesty, there's another dead ball

turnover, so at least they can get back and, and play defense. And I think that hurt. Okay. See, in, in game one, but I'm waiting to see if it, I mean, obviously there's only 12 guys, you know, every one of them that are working the finals, they're the best officials in the league. Probably not gonna be a factor. But I thought going in, this is a hard series to referee. You got both teams really trying to play physically, both teams are working on it defensively,

both teams like to pick up full court a lot. Like that's potentially a nightmare game. And both teams like to go up and down too. But it's, I haven't seen it yet. Like where I felt the officials really impacted the game. I don't know how you feel about it. Efficiating was great in game one. Sure, there's probably a couple of things

maybe you could find in game two if you wanted to, but there wasn't gonna be a call that was gonna change the course of that game because they were up 23, Pacers come back, it's 18 and a half, it's 19, it's kind of in this 19 to 14, 20 to 16 range. I think it's like 16 to 19. I know they did get it down 15, 14.

Every time I looked up at the clock, it felt like it was 16, 17, 18, 19 points the entire second half, which is what it's hard to play. Yeah. So I have no complaints about deficiting at all. And I thought deficiting was great in game one. So let's talk about Carlisle because he's somebody you've known a long time.

He gets to the East. There was kind of this outside thought that, long time, he gets to the East. There was kind of this outside thought that, I mean, could he be the one guy that can figure this out? So after two games, what's the scouting report on Carlisle and what he ends up figuring out, which again may not be enough here to come back. I tell you, he made no bones about it.

He had two quotes that I thought were really very revealing. He said, we have to play our game better than they play theirs. And he literally said, we just got to hang around. He said, it's a daunting task. I know how good these guys are defensively. He said, we need to hang around. We need to be in the game. And then he said, we got to give the ball to Halley at the end of the game. And I'll be damned.

That's exactly what happened. I mean, they hung around. You just felt they were hanging around in that, you know, in the first game until the fourth. And then like, you could see it, they started making their threes. OKC could not make threes in the fourth quarter. And truth be told, because we kept coming up with the stats earlier in the playoffs, we'd go Shay and JDub and Chet Holmgren combined for 90% of the points and all the assists, blah, blah, blah. Well, both of them had subpar games. Jalen Williams by his standards,

and Chet Holmgren in game one had subpar games. So more Pacers played well. Obi Toppin after beginning of the game could not play any worse than he was. It looked like me or you out there. He was turning the ball over every time he had it. Then he settled down and he makes five threes that like that. And they, they get back in the game with their threes and they hung around. They got two stops. Okay. So, he goes one for five down the stretch. Two good stops on Shea. There were good shots that Shea makes all the time, but he missed them both. They missed two wide open threes. I think Dort missed one and J Dub missed the

other one and they lose the game. I think his game plan is good. I think he's very cognizant of the fact how good they are, how tough their defense is. They gotta take care of the ball for sure. The one thing I'm anxious to hear Rick say today, I think he's gonna say they did not do a good job, as good a job keeping them off the free throw line in game two.

Shea's ridiculous. I mean, he kind of gets wherever he wants, almost every possession. So he lives on the free, I mean, he's shooting nine wherever he wants, almost every possession. So he lives on the free. I mean, he's shooting nine or 10 free throws a game. I thought he was so much more efficient in game two. He didn't shoot it as much. He distributed it better.

Now again, he had help. It was hard for him to distribute the ball in game one when other guys weren't stepping up and scoring. But I thought he was really, really good. I think both Pascal and Tyrese struggled. And I think the defense again, because what we were talking about earlier, scoring, they were back, they were set up. They had great pressure on the ball. It was Nimrod's, the one guy that doesn't look fazed to me by the

he plays like a point guard, he seems to know what he's doing, he penetrates, you know, he'll take good shots. Pascal and Tyrese were really struggling to create shots for themselves or to get shots out of the offense in game two. And I think that's gonna be Rick's biggest challenge. You probably saw the stat, you know, we go crazy,

everybody does with all these stats. He's the oldest guy to ever coach's biggest challenge. You probably saw the stat, you know, we go crazy, everybody does with all these stats. He's the oldest guy to ever coach in the finals. He beat Pop by 83 days, Pop in 2014, the oldest coach to ever coach in the NBA finals, Rick Carlisle. And he's got a chance to be only the fourth guy to win championships with two different teams. It's incredible.

I missed that one. Yeah. Oldest ever. By 80 days. And like LB was 64 with Detroit in 05 and Phil was 64 with the Lakers I think in 10 or 11. Pop was 65 but fewer days than Rick, when Rick coached this year in the finals. How's that for a stat? Isn't that amazing? And he does, he's done such a good, you know him almost as long as I do,

but thinking back to how different his teams are, I think he's always funny because Nelly got the award the other day. Nelly was always that way, but Nelly's style kind of stayed the same. Rick has had different teams that played so differently, different focuses, more defense, more offense, pounded inside, do that.

He's adapted to his personnel as well as anybody that's coached in our league. Now he's coached for a long time, so you get a chance to see that over the years. But I mean, he's such a versatile coach and he's such a creative thinker in terms of this is what is good for this, this particular team. And right now he's up against it. I'm really anxious to see what he's going to say about time.

I know they're going to play better at home, but I like what, how he's going to get Pascal and Tyrese a little more loose on offense than they've been. Maybe you can ask him how he ended up going from Maine to UVA. That was always one I'd forgot. We were talking about that with Corey Alexander. Corey's working with us on the series and we were all good with the UVA stuff. and the series and we were all good with the UVA stuff. You're so right about Halliburton on the initiating and I was giving him so much credit for game one because I feel like if you're just running your best player on the ball over half court

right into the teeth of the defense. And I think that's actually where OKC can get a little stagnant. And it's why Denver got that series to seven is they wanted to just close off the top to SGA with that zone. And then the gamble with OKC and the only thing you can hope for is the gamble that we've already seen enough here. It was the Pacers gamble in game one. Although I feel like SGA, maybe he shut down on his guys enough because they weren't making any shots.

They were 0-5 from three in the fourth quarter. We know the stat lines for everybody else around him. So now he's taking a million shots, but that's the one way you hope is kind of the Carlisle idea of stay in it. Then SGA gets clogged into just multiple defender traffic. And the times he's swinging at those other guys, you know, Dort, it doesn't feel like it's always going in

with Dort. It doesn't always feel like, I don't know if there's one guy where like, oh shit, like we can't leave Clay open. No, exactly. There isn't, there isn't. There's other guys. It was JDub, but it hasn't been in the playoffs. I mean, that was the guy that like,

when he got an open shot, it was like, oh, we're in trouble. He's gonna knock it down. It hasn't been, it's Aaron Wiggins in game two. It was Oby Toppett in game one for Indiana. Five threes those guys made up. That's the other thing, right. That I didn't mention. Bench play was really significant.

Big plus Indiana game one. Big plus OKC game two. I mean, they really carried, you know, carried it from Caruso and Wiggins were so good in game two and OB in particular was so good in game one. But I mean, the respective bench outplayed their opponent significantly in both games. And the other thing that hurts, OKC gets paint points. They don't get it post and up, but they beat the Pacers on the dribble. They attack the rim better

than Indiana has been able to attack it. So there's a paint point discrepancy in both games. It's like, I swear, you go into the paint against OKC, it's like a negative. You lose the ball or you end up taking like an off-balance shot, because Holmgren's got these long arms and he's all over the place and they're little guys, they're like tearing at the ball.

I mean, it's funny. I've never seen teams struggle as much to score in the paint as people do against the OKC. You're in, you think, oh good, we got something. And they end up with an off balance shot that has no chance of going in. And it just goes as a miss. Now here they come down the floor.

Again, their defense is so second level. I mean, it truly is. They're a great, great defensive team. I have one last thing for you, but you're right. Again, thinking about just the images in my head of like these Halliburton plays where it's a curl coming from in front of his bench and it's like across the top of the three point line.

And he's like coming back into the play and then he's looking, he's like that running back that's like, okay, I've got to go further, I got to go further, I got to go further out. Exactly. And then it's just- All of a sudden the sideline gets you. He's got nowhere to go.

It's amazing what, you know. And he's not going to take 28 bad shots. No, exactly right. It's just not how he's wired to play this game, which, you know, again, sometimes I think we lose sight of like, cool, your favorite player took a million shots and missed them all. Yeah.

So now we're supposed to be thrilled about it. Like if it's, I mean, I'm still say it's possible for sure. But if they can either force turnovers or just play better defense, which I didn't think they did in the first half. But if they or second day, I thought other than the fourth quarter, I kept saying even in the first the first game, second half, I said, Kestie, they're playing good offense now. Indiana's starting to score, but it doesn't matter

because they can't stop OKC. And I thought that was the case in the second half of game two. All they did was trade. Neither team could stop the other. If Indiana would get more stops and they could play more open floor, now Halliburton's gonna look like Halliburton

and Pascal's gonna be, you know, winging in there and stuff. It just seems to me, it looks like they're playing insane because they're attacking the OKC half court defense way more than you want to. And it's easy to say, well, what are we gonna do? They're trying to run, they're trying to force turnovers. They're

trying to get stops, but they're not really doing the latter two very well at all. The idea of how I envision going back, like the things I remember seeing against the Knicks. And then in this series and Bill and I talked about it on Sunday, it's just that whole up and down. Okay. They're flying around. They're passing it ahead. TV, the director shouldn't have gone to a replay. He shouldn't have gone to a, just a reaction. Now it's too late. And now it's, now it's like, oh, that's right. That's what they've been doing to everybody throughout the East. And now it's not happening here in the NBA finals. Okay. Speaking of the East, your reaction to Tibbs being out in New York? Well, you know I'm biased.

I'm always gonna come down on a coach. First of all, the Knicks, that's the Knicks. They don't know what they're doing. They're their own worst enemy. They've been their own worst enemy. The last two years been the best excitement. I don't know the numbers I should. I think he went to the playoffs four straight times

after they don't go for like seven years or eight years. Um, they make big changes. I didn't necessarily love them. Bobby Mark said there was no way they could have, could have kept Hardenstein. I thought that really hurt them. Um, I thought letting Dante go was a mistake also. I thought those two guys were so good for them last year. Um, I just think that he did a great job.

You can criticize, all right, he doesn't use the bench, blah, blah, blah, all those guys. They got beaten seven last year in the second round. This year they go to Eastern Conference Finals. Come on, everybody said the roster's really good. It's a good roster, it's not a great roster. And he's got a couple of non-defenders that he has playing adequate defense.

They weren't nearly as good defensively as they used to be. And I thought that was partially because of the trade. I just think it's unfair. I thought he did a great job. The excitement and everything in New York was great. And I'm saying, where are they going? I don't know who made the decision. Leon's made a lot of good decisions. Was his decision okay? I don't buy that it was players to be honest. They didn't do it without the players. I mean, it's not like there's a mutiny

because it happened, but I don't think the players were that unhappy to be honest with you. I just, I didn't care for the decision. Thibodeau is still one of the best coaches in the NBA and he gets an awful lot out of a roster. You don't win a game because you out coached him or anything like that. I really don't feel that. So I'm really disappointed.

Plus I still come back to where the hell are they going? If you're going to do a thing like that, you would have thought they had a deal in the drawer or something, something happened. And I, you know, um, it seems, it seems they're really aggressive at trying to get Jay kid. I don't even know if Dallas is going to give them permission to talk to them, but I, Jay kids, the only name I see that seems to have any traction. Yeah, that's kind of interesting too. Because I don't know, I mean, I guess it feels like philosophically they want somebody that's, you know,

look, I'm not saying Kidd doesn't ever get on anybody, but he's going to be catering a bit more to the players. Well, it's too old, you know, more. More players, the other guy was more a coach. They're saying that about Michael Malone. Michael Malone is one of the best coaches in the NBA. And all I'm hearing is, oh, he's too much like Tibbs. I'm going, that's bad? Like that's not a good thing?

Those two guys aren't great coaches? I don't understand. I just know I'm being a little bit of a smug, cynical old curmudgeon. I've sat on benches across from Tom Thibodeau. He's not a good coach. He's an excellent coach. And it's been in multiple places. And going back even to how much he helped Doc when they won in 08. He was a factor in that series also as an assistant coach. So I don't get it. I really don't get it.

Knicks are always, Knicks always think they're smarter than everybody else. That's the Nick philosophy. You know, they think they're different and we're smarter than than all these other teams. We know what we're doing. And I would say they're normally the opposite. They're oftentimes their own worst enemy. Thank you so much for having the time for us today.

I know you're probably in Indy now, it looks like, and getting ready for game three, which will be Wednesday on ABC. And of course, PJ and the call, Mark Keshe on ESPN radio starting at 830 Eastern time. Thank you, I hope we're wrong. I hope it's an accurate series. I hope you and I are wrong on this, but I don't know. I've said it too many times, but I mean, the difference between the way we remember a five or

six game series feels a little misguided. Like, oh, that was a great series. It's five. It's, that was terrible. Um, yeah, look, I, I just think that defense for all the reasons. I mean, we spent more of this pod talking about their defense and I'm glad that you came on to reinforce all of that stuff. I just think it's a much different challenge and agree. And we'll see, we'll see if Carlisle has some tweaks here or something.

But I mean, it's, it's not, it's a hard team offensively for the Pacers to be like, okay, we're actually going to run it through like this guy a little bit more. Because Neal Smith is generally off of somebody else's thing. Nemhart's got a little bit more ISO in him, but then he's going up against bigger defenders. You know, nobody runs a post-offense anymore, so it doesn't matter. Turner's probably more comfortable on the perimeter, everything else. Like so, unless it's just a hard team to go, now we're going to let Matherin high pick and roll off of Halliburton's side, you know, just to have Halliburton be the decoy, but at least Matherin is strong and athletic enough to, it's a hard task. Exactly.

And exactly where he's, Matheran's the perfect example of that. Cause so many times he's like, they throw him in and he's able to create some. It's hard to create anything against this team. It really is for any individual. It's hard to run stuff for people. It's hard for people to create for themselves.

Yeah, Siakam's just gonna have to find a way to get deep and be quicker. I think he will. I tell you what, I'm hoping he can. I really think he's been a special player so far in the playoffs. He was not in game two. We shall see.

All right, we'll be checking in, man. Thanks so much, Rej. All right, brother, great being with you, thanks, Ryan. All right, we'll be checking in, man. Thanks so much, Rej. See you out at every point. All right, bye. Bye bye. We hope you're enjoying your Air Canada flight. Rocky's vacation, here we come. Whoa, is this economy?

Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet! Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice! On behalf of Air Canada, nice travels.

Wi-Fi available to Airplane members on Equip flight, sponsored by Bell Condition Supply, seercanada.com. At Desjardins Insurance, we know that when you're a building contractor, your company's foundation needs to be strong. That's why our agents go the extra mile to understand your business and provide tailored solutions for all its unique needs. You put your heart into your company, so we put our heart into making sure it's protected. Get insurance that's really big on care. Find an agent today at Desjardins.com

slash business coverage. You want details? Buy. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, rr at gmail.com. That is the email address. We've got Kyle, we've got Wargon. Wargon's got his Yankee shirt on. Is that in response to Roman Anthony being called up,

or what's going on? No, it's not in response. Just pulled it out of the old closet today. It's not a disappointment. Volpi? Yeah. I think he's having a great year. I think he's 10th in the league in doubles. I mean, overall, has he been a disappointment? Maybe.

But, you know, I think people thought he was going to be the next Jeter. That's not super realistic, I don't think. Nope. Probably not. But, uh, yeah, I was doing a quick perusal here. It's kind of a good break season. Nah, I just, I feel like there's such a big deal when he was coming up. Yeah.

Um, and he's from New York too, right? He's from Jersey. All right. The running thing continues to be, man, something people will not let go. And I kind of like it, to be honest with you. I don't know what that says about me. Maybe just because I think there's so many times in life

where everybody is arguing strictly from their perspective, which again, like, holy shit, Ryan, what an epiphany, right? But there's too much of it. There is too much of it where it's like this, I always talk about like the polling of one, and then it becomes like this polling of just me. Like, well, that's not how I do it. I was like, well, I guess that means everybody does it that way

because you only do it this way. And I knew this was going to happen. I knew this was going to happen because everybody, nobody trains for a mile. Nobody trains for a mile. All right. So the few people that have have hit us up with real stuff, real stories, real reaction. And yet it was going to turn into this thing that people who run for distance were only going to think about their mile splits. So, um, I did the mile challenge in 2020, 33 at the time, picks included. Hi, you can call me Mr.

Pretzel. Hmm. Okay. Uh, five 12. Pretzel. Hmm. Okay. Uh, five 12. Uh, now I'm starting to think this guy just fucking with us the whole time. Player comp rookie year, Michael Carter, Williams, Gardner can put up stats, but you don't want

me in your, my, in your broken jumper, fueling your team. Uh, I'm the Simon's science experience you were looking for back in 2020. COVID less left us all some free time people binge Netflix, some people took up woodworking. I love the guy from the bear being like, dude, I was making bread before COVID. It's like good. I decided if I could see if I could break a six minute mile, my main group chat consists of

11 guys, all washed up athletes between 33 and 44 at the time. And they were impressed once I hit low six handles. April seven minutes, 11 seconds, was running 10 miles a week at this point. June 6, 08, September 5, 37. My training was just running more distance, 20 miles a week. But the funny thing about running is that a sub six minute mile is no man's land.

Great runners are sub five minutes, well into their forties. Good runners don't ever run a mile for time. That's my point. That's it. I don't even have anything else. He has a couple other lines. Um, that would be my point on that. It seems like no one's excited about this. I'm just glad have anything else. He has a couple other lines. That would be my point on that. It seems like no one's excited about this.

I'm just glad you're getting this off. I'm just glad you're getting this, getting it out. Yeah, I feel like we've covered this from every possible angle. All right. I love your efficiency. Let's forward an email here to one of our guys here in real time. I don't know if that Oregon is going to feel a little left out. That's okay. But we have somebody questioning whether they should travel for a first day.

Travel for a first date. 5'8", 5'9", in the apps, 36 years old, full-shape bald, former college squash player, current kite surfer. I live in Paris. Holy shit, guys. I live in Paris and recently I matched on hinge with a 28-year-old with a chemistry PhD who lives in London who has a particularly attractive profile, photos below, as well as some of my photos for comparison.

She's agreed to a theater date in London this weekend. Theater date in London. He lives in Paris. Uh, my question is traveling to a neighboring country for a first day, too much of a reach Euro star plus two nights Airbnb theater tickets is a thousand bucks and I don't have the certainty of having seen her in person to know she's what her profile suggests she could be. Still a shot at what she might be is probably worth that to me.

All in all, a weekend in London and catching a show is something I'd enjoy, even if the person beside me doesn't turn out to be someone I see a second time. What do you guys think? All right. I will tell you that the first picture, I totally get it. You squint a little bit. It's like Anna de Armas vibes. Shout out to ballerina. Yeah, there you go. That third picture is a bit concerning. Kyle, you think I just don't like where the first picture, the journey ends up

on the third. Oh, well, you know what? Side profile head on, you know, you just, you got to know your angles. She might not be in the biz. I don't know. Hey, some have said, I don't know my angles when it comes to the photograph. So a thousand dollars in LA for a first date is not uncommon. I don't think just considering all the money that's floating around for me, it'd be no no brainer, but I don't know. It's not, it's not insane.

And, uh, you know, I've been listening to D day podcasts, you know, UK to Normandy's wasn't, wasn't crazy far. I mean, those guys did it in a boat. So, um, he's probably not taking a boat. That's what I mean. Think about how efficient this is. He just, he just goes the other way. Yeah. Well, yeah, I don't know. So I looked at it,

because this is the part of being American, and it doesn't make us stupid Americans. It'd be like, how many guys are you gonna walk around fucking Belgium and be like, hey, how long does it take from Boston to New York City? Yeah, right. Two days. Oh, you fucking moron, dumb European.

You don't even know. You don't know the distance of places you fucking moron, dumb European. You don't even know. You don't know the distance of places you've never gonna have to travel. All right, so it seems like on the train, we're talking two plus hours. So a little quicker than you would think. Drive is six hours.

So I imagine Eurostar is the train. So two hours there. So. Hasn't seen her in person though. Has he never time? It's not in this email. That's, that's not great. And this guy's a kite surfer. So like the kite surfing picks are really good.

His picks are really good. Yeah. He knows his angels. They're strong picks. Yeah. As if he knows he's taking these pictures to be like, this is the stuff that I enjoy. And sure. I might be standing on a street in Paris, um, and making this video. picks, as if he knows he's taking these pictures to be like, this is the stuff that I enjoy. And

sure, I might be standing on a street in Paris and making this seem like it's casual, but I'm actually just standing on a street in Paris. So I wouldn't say the third picture is bad. I just think the first is a lot better than the third. I mean, I don't know. I mean, look, I would be a little worried. They're like, why is she this good looking in London and hasn't met anybody? And is it that you guys just completely hit it off on the way you talk to each other, some similar interests that you're going from Paris to London? And by the way, like you're in Paris and you haven't found any, so there's some concerning elements to all this

where I know personally, I would not put myself into this situation where you would show up and go, you know, now I'm in London and oh my God, like this is bad. I'm also old. So I probably just wouldn't want to go for a date to anywhere in the world. Um, not leaving the strands, dude.

Yeah. So I look, go for it. I love your adventurous spirit. I think your pictures are good. I think the first two of her are really good. The third one's a little weird. Maybe it's just, uh, nah, man, it's not weird. It's just not the best. I'm being too harsh. I just, I'd ask two questions. One,

are you in the absolute middle of what most people would call a drought? Are you getting a little desperate? Would, would completely relaxed guy do this? Or is this like a month for and no end in sight guy? Is this a mirage? Ask yourself that. Two, if this is a, I don't wanna say catfish, but if this is a disaster and it was like, she's like, oh great, she hugs you

and then you go back to your hotel and you don't see her for the next, like if something terrible happens, would this really screw you up financially? Like what does this money mean to you in terms of your, your expenses? You know, is this, is this like, it's not nothing. A thousand dollars isn't nothing to anybody. But like, how much of a something is it? Yeah. But how much of a something is it? You know, that's all, that's all I'm saying. So ask yourself those two questions. How important

is this money to you that you're spending? And are you in a drought or not? You'll know the answer to that. You don't even need to think about it. And then also like, if it goes well, are you willing to be back and forth, you know, Paris to London, you know, however often you're gonna see this girl? Who knows?

And then also, if you're 5'8", you can get away with more than putting 5'9' on the apps. I was putting 5'9' on the apps. You can go a little higher. Nice, dude. Yeah. You can go a little higher, Ethan. You can go a little higher.

All right. Whoa! You can flirt with six foot, yeah. Six foot? You can flirt with it. You're crazy, you're crazy. You're crazy. Maybe when you're as sturdy as Wargon is,

you can get away with it. That's when you gotta know your angles. I love how positive Wargon is though. Because immediately, all I'm thinking about is how this could go wrong. Catfish. How sitting about the finances. And then Wargon's like,

what if it works out and you fall in love? And now all of a sudden you have to worry about a commute. You have a whole other email. I'll tell you, you take that Euro Star early though, only a hundred bucks. 7.42 a.m. Does it have a drinks cart? Bar cart?

I'm sure, I'm sure. In Europe, yeah. Nice. Are you looking at pricing right now? What the hell's going on? Yeah, yeah, I got it up, I got it up. Oh, I thought this was like, you know, when I go, when I summer over there,

what's it gonna be? Pro tip. I got it up. I got it up. Oh, I thought this was like, you know when I go when I saw her over there Pro tip summer straight from the lounge to the euro star So That's it yeah, we're all saying go for it But ask yourself a hard question or two before you do. Even if it goes bad, it's such a great story. If you can afford it, I don't, I don't see a huge downside. We'll read that one. I can make an executive.

I think we'll read that one. No matter how this goes. This guy's kite surfing gear looks pretty sweet. So he could probably handle a thousand bucks. Yeah. I think those are $500 dress sneakers too. So you don't find that at Dick's. No, they don't have kite surfing at Dick's.

Okay. Am I an unreasonable son? No NBA comp here, but my 10 K pace hovers just above eight minutes. Not elite, but I'll take it. War gone. Uh, I just graduated from grad school. My wife is throwing me a party. I'm 30 plus, so it feels a little much.

But I know it's as much as her celebration is mine since we've just spent the last few years living apart during my program. Here's the issue. I live four hours from my hometown and a lot of family, including my parents are coming for the weekend. My wife got them a great hotel deal. Uh, but now last minute they're insisting on bringing their dog, not asking. I love dogs, but I have allergies,

especially with long and short-haired breeds. My wife and I have our own dog. I've developed a mild allergy to him too, but we manage it with strict rules, no furniture, constant vacuuming, et cetera. My parents know this. That's awesome. Yeah.

I know. Sleep outside. Yeah, we do a great job. My parents know this. That's awesome. Yeah. I know. Sleep outside. Yeah. You do a great job. I have a tent. My parents know this. They've seen firsthand that their dog causes, causes issues and staying over.

Last time was a bit chaotic. The dog was everywhere and there was no stopping her. Not even my parents. This weekend we're hosting 50, 60 people. It's already a bit stressful for my wife who's planning the entire thing, adding another dog to the mix that we have to keep an eye on is too much. We think I asked them not to bring the dog. They didn't take it well. My mom launched into how much they've sacrificed for us over the years.

I've offered alternatives, including paying to board the dog, not an option. They say, yeah, man, I gotta be honest with you. Your mom lost me on that whole rationale of everything where she's basically like, I've sacrificed so much, but I I got to be honest with you. Your mom lost me on that whole rationale of everything where she's basically like, I've sacrificed so much. You now have to get dog sick. Basically what you're saying, right? Yeah. Like I like my dog so much. I know he's going to make you sick. You stole my thirties from me. I'm bringing'm bringing my dog. But you know, we've been so inconvenienced over the years. So now you have to get sick because that's love.

Uh, all right. So she, I'm out there. No offense. They often watch our dog when we visit. So I get how this might seem hypocritical, but we're talking about my allergies, a prior bad experience and a major event we're hosting, not to mention we often offer to board our dog during the holidays to give them a break. But my mom insists on seeing my dog whenever, um, and making sure we have them over to the point where she'd be offended if I showed up without him.

She doesn't have grandkids. So this is the next best thing I suppose. So your mom really likes dogs. She's one of those. Am I being unreasonable or a hypocrite? Any advice on how to handle this? Appreciate your time and enjoy the rest of the finals. She's just, she seems like an unreasonable dog person. You know, I had a flight back, uh, not that long ago. What was it? The, uh,

Bally Neal run Denver. Got into, I was in comfort, you know, so three, three guys, three guys and middle seat guy had a huge dog. Huge. Huge dog. And like, you know, there was some stuff going on. Did I already tell the story? Not that I'm jumping into my head. I don't know. You've been doing this a long time though. So I could be wrong. Yeah. Uh, no, this just happened. So the dog was big. It was like a, a lab, but it, guess what? It, it's not worried about my foot room.

Like it doesn't, it doesn't care. So it's limbs were at my feet. And then for him to kind of have the dog in a spot where he could like sit, because the dog is taking up all of his foot room. So now his legs are outside. And so now he's into mine, including the horizontal limbs, depending which side the dog was on. And it was just another one of those moments. And like, look, I didn't get like pissed about it. I tried to keep my feet away from the dog. I didn't want to step on the dog. I gave up my space because of this guy and this dog.

I would admit checking the guy out a little bit looked like, you know, the dog was going to be really important to him. The guy in the other seat, he said, Hey, I hope my dog isn't going to bother you. And the guy was like, I'm very dog friendly. Um, and wanted to like, let him know. And then he was like, is it okay if I pet your dog? And he was like, don't pet the dog. So then there was restrictions, even though the dog was just up in our shit the whole flight. And yeah, I'll admit, like it was another one

of those moments where I'm like, if everybody did this, if everyone did this, it would suck. So, um, you know, it sounds like your mom is one of those people that's just irrationally stupid when it comes to, sorry, I said that about your mom, but like, you know, it sounds like your mom is one of those people that's just irrationally stupid when it comes to, sorry, I said that about your mom, but like, you know, you saying she'd be offended if you didn't bring the dog to her, she's prioritizing dogs over people.

And there's a lot of people out there that do this. And, uh, I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. And I also have never owned a dog. So some people would say I'm wrong, but we're gone. Uh, you are fucked. There's no, there's no winning this situation from you. a dog. So some people would say I'm wrong. But we're gone. You are fucked. There's no there's no winning this situation from you because your mom is completely unreasonable. And also I love dogs. I'm a huge dog person. The service dog thing has gotten completely out of hand. Thank you. Completely out of hand. If you don't have

like an actual disability where the dog is like essential, you shouldn't be able to bring out an airplane. You shouldn't be able to bring it into like a grocery store. I was just, I was just ranting about this to someone the other day. It's absolutely ridiculous. It's totally ridiculous. I mean, I know there's, you know, everyone that deserves to have the dog. We're not talking about you. We're talking about everybody else that knows a doctor that wrote a note.

I thought they had cracked down on this stuff again recently, but it's, I don't know. It's big in New York because if you have a service dog, the building can't charge you a fee for having the dog in the building. Yeah. Is it the same in LA? No, it just, it totally, I mean, I'm sure it is considering rent protection stuff here. This feels like cigarette breaks. Like now maybe I will just get a dog if I get an apartment. Can't afford not to. Right.

Yes. Like you really, like animals, not really, but I love fucking with HOAs. Yeah. Mike's right. Like when you're, I just had an argument yesterday, actually, with like sort of a rational dog person. They operate in the argument from a place

of moral high ground because of media it's like a dog, like a dog is a person to them. And you try to like exclude this person from whatever this thing is. It's like, you know, it's like a civil rights issue for them that it's really, that's how it feels. I was just with my wife yesterday, two year anniversary, shout out six, nine forever.

And we were talking about our, that was the date. And we're talking about our trip to New York coming up, we're gonna do it this summer. And we've got a lot of stuff going on. There's a wedding, we got a bunch of things happening. And she's like, can we visit my sister in Philly? And I'm like, yeah, we do that every year. I'm wondering, maybe they come up to us.

We go to Philly, we go to a bunch of bars, I spend a bunch of money, and then I go sleep on their couch. It's a nice place, but you know, we've got guest beds here at my parents. We got a pool. It's really nice. Let's have them down to the crown jewel. She's like, well, your parents have a dog and they have their little dog. And I don't know if they bring the dog.

I'm like, all right, maybe they wouldn't bring the dog. And she's like, but I need to see the dog. And I just realized I entered into these waters where like, I'm sinking. My ship is full of holes. There's nothing I can say. Cause she's just like, we should go to Philly instead of having them come here so that I could see their dog. I'm just like, all right. Okay. So the bunny's just not cutting it for her. I'll table this discussion for another time. Cause I don't want to argue with you on our

anniversary dinner, but I know, I know there's nothing I can say to this, because she's operating from the moral high ground. She can't believe that I'd be like, all right, well, then you just won't see the dog this trip. She's just, it's just a total disconnect. And so that's what you're dealing with here. And if we're supposed to give you advice, I don't know, I'd say you're not being unreasonable. But now that you have the mom thing with the, you know, childhood guilt that she's throwing your way, I don't know, man. As an aside, I'm so happy I'm not married right now, the summer after hearing that story.

What could you do? I just don't understand how she couldn't be like, hey, this guy's wife, right? Is setting all of this up. It's going to be chaotic. That's the only thing I don't understand in the email where it's like, it's not, there's nothing anyone can do about this dog. So what do you do?

You just show up. He's like, sorry. Trash yet. I was confused. He said, I'm allergic to short hair and long hair dogs. Dogs. Yeah. But what dogs are you not allergic to? Hairless. Yeah. I don't, they have a dog, medium hair, maybe medium hair. Last time was a bit chaotic. The dog was everywhere and there was no stopping her. Not even my parents. I mean, I guess like if the dog is just out of control,

the dog's out of control, but we have enough evidence here to prove Oregon's point. It's just, there are a lot of really irrational dog people out there and unfortunately your mom is one of them and she doesn't care if the dog fucks up your allergies or the party that your wife has been planning here after you getting out of a graduate program that seems to be a pretty big deal.

You know, the thing that I would say is it sounds like that set up for that party is gonna be so chaotic. You know, it's probably not, it's not gonna be like you're having a relaxing weekend and your mom's there with the dog. Like you're probably gonna have a bunch of shit to do. It might get lost in the sauce of inconveniences that you already have and it'll just, you know,

it'll be like, wow, that was- It'll just work itself out? No, it's just like, that was crazy. It's a drop in the bucket considering all the things. I gotta go get 50 pounds of ice and I gotta go do this and whatever. Like there's probably shit for your party that's supposed to be like your day

that you're gonna end up doing, because that's life. And this might just get lost in the sauce of all the inconveniences. And then, you know, you'll look up, it'll be Monday after that weekend and you'd be like, shit, everyone's gone, okay. And then you and your wife could joke about

that fucking dog for a while. I don't, I don't know. I think it's just, it's one of life's inconveniences and, and because it's your mom and she's taking this hard line on it, I think, you know, it would be shitty to argue with her about this. I think you have to lose. I don't know. The original question though, is that, no, you're not a bad, no, you're

totally not bad, dude. But I still can't fathom like bringing a dog to the party. The dog is unhinged, like completely misbehaving. And the mom's like, nothing we can do. Glad we brought it though. Was he saying that the dog was unhinged or that they didn't follow the strict rules of this allergic man's dog house where it's like, you can't get on this stuff. You can't, you can't be on the couch.

Like, was it like- The dog was everywhere. There was no stopping her, not even my parents. Yeah, so everywhere, right? That means like on his fucking couch and the bench and all that stuff. Maybe he makes like a dog maze with no opening in his backyard.

Dogs in the garage for the party, I don't know. Yeah, like, oh, that's great. I just built a dog maze, it's out back. What are the odds? This is amazing. Yeah. And there's no opening on the other side. You can't figure it out. That would be smart.

That might be a good business. Unsolvable dog mazes. I like temporary. Yeah. Set them will be set up in an hour here. All right. That'll do it for the show. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to work on. Thanks to Jonathan Frias. You can watch the podcast, set them, we'll be set up in an hour here. All right, that'll do it for the show. Thanks to Kyle.

Thanks to Oregon. Thanks to Jonathan Frias. You can watch the podcast, of course, on Spotify app and on YouTube, or I think we said this week we would do something. I think so. Maybe we will. Yeah, maybe we won't. So subscribe to that.

Just geyser of content. The Ryan Rosillo podcast, Ringer Spotify. They were going to name me Michael Jordan. My dad was like, I don't think he can live up to it, so they named me Michael Jared. Music Must be 21 and older in present and select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help dot org in Maryland hope is there visit gambling help line ma dot org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope NY or text hope NY in New York.