The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Picking the Entire Bracket With Doug Gottlieb, Metta Sandiford-Artest on Kobe Stories and the Art of Defending, Plus an Infamous Marlins Anniversary

Episode Date: March 15, 2022

Russillo remembers the Miami Marlins heist (0:33). Then Ryen is joined by Doug Gottlieb of Fox Sports to fill out an entire bracket for the NCAA men's basketball tournament (9:35). Then Ryen talks with Metta Sandiford-Artest about playing for St. John's in the late '90s, his NBA mentors, executing a team style of play, stories from playing with Kobe Bryant, guarding Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, and more (39:35). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:20:19). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Doug Gottlieb and Metta Sandiford-Artest Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast uh this is going to be a lot of fun we've got doug gottlieb picking the entire bracket for you so if you don't know what you're doing with the brackets doug gottlieb and i go through every single pick and then meta Metta Sanford Artest. His career, little Johnny's talk in there as well, and how he sees some of the players of today. And life advice. We're going to talk a little baseball today. You guys

know I love a good CBA discussion and congrats to the players and sort of owners working this out. As you can see, it was very clear. The owners were going for it, hoping the players would give in. Players didn't. And so some of those earlier projections, they definitely moved towards the players' favor. But like in any negotiation, if you just ask for something ridiculous and then you come to the middle, which the middle of maybe

is what you always wanted if you were the owners, it feels like some kind of win for the players. And I've seen different arguments. The players could have gotten more. They should have held out even longer. Again, it was a lockout, so it was owner-induced labor strife. But in this case, those of us that still love baseball, we get baseball back, and we're not going to really miss much time, except for some spring training. But the reason

I bring this up is that it's now the 10-year anniversary of the heist of the century. Miami Marlins. Now, let's go back to 2012. They spent, the Marlins did, they spent on players and free agency for a total of $194 million. That was a lot of money 10 years ago in baseball.

They signed Jose Reyes, six years, $106 million. They signed reliever Heath Bell, three years for $27 million. And they signed starting pitcher Mark Burley for four years and $58 million. There was even rumors, I guess it's true, that they made Albert Pujols a huge offer for 10 years and $220 million.

But I still think that ended up being low for him at the time. And he wanted a no trade clause and the Marlins weren't going to do that. Which is like, okay, the Marlins aren't going to give you a no trade clause and the Marlins weren't going to do that, which is like, okay, the Marlins aren't going to give you a no trade clause, dun, dun, dun. So I was reading through some of the quotes

from 10 years ago after the Marlins because they had a new stadium opening up as well too. So they wanted to show off the new stadium. They're going to load it with players. They're going to finally spend, invest in the investment in them. It was going to be one big happy baseball party in South Florida.

The quotes from different pieces. The Marlins quieted skeptics. There's another quote that I love. There's something very 1997 about these Marlins. The reason why everybody was excited was like, hey, the city stepped up and helped pay for the stadium. Let's look at some of these numbers here. Although it was somewhat privately funded by Jeffrey Loria, the owner, art dealer, it was like, I don't know, 20% privately financed. There was about $488 million in bonds from Miami-Dade County that were issued to be able

to pay for this stadium. Now, we can probably move a couple of decimal points around here or there. I double-check, triple-check these numbers. They're all kind of all over the place, but I'm just at least giving you the ballpark. Hey, no pun intended. Numbers on the investment once ownership and Miami leadership, Marlins leadership, were able to get taxpayers to fund this stadium. to get taxpayers to fund the stadium.

Now, the scary part for Miami, as residents down there know, that this deal may cost $2.6 billion, $2.8 billion to taxpayers paying down this financial decision that basically every single politician that was pro Marlins is out of work right now. And the numbers on this $2.6 billion bill due to the taxpayers, they're saying that might be paid off in 2049. So it's like, wait, that doesn't seem like a great

deal. But part of the Marlins deal to the city was, well, if we sell this franchise, Part of the Marlins deal to the city was, well, if we sell this franchise, we'll pay you back some of the profits of that sale back to the county. So a lot of this sounds kind of good, right? Hey, new stadium, not great, mostly publicly financed. That part sort of sucks. But hey, baseball. And they just went on a spending spree in free agency. Or did they?

This is why it's such a con. And this is why people should have been able to figure it out. But sometimes contract details aren't as precise as we need them to be. You want to know why this is bullshit? And it was always bullshit from day one. And after they had traded Jose Reyes, Mark Burley, Heath Bell, and some other players as well for prospects, because they traded them after they played there for a year. And they started saying, oh, well, we lost all these games.

We weren't good. We had to reassess. We had to do these different things. No, you only signed these players to show off that you were actually going to spend for a year while your intention was to never pay these players the rest of the remaining contracts to then make the city feel better about paying for the stadium that you were going to profit off once you sold the baseball team. You're asking, Ryan, how do you know this? Well, because I've never seen contracts this backloaded. That was always my point when I finally learned about this when I was doing radio. Reyes got six years, $106 million. $10 million was paid by the Marlins in that first year. It was backloaded on an average of $22 million over the last three years. You want to tell me some contracts are backloaded in sports?

I'll agree with you. There's no way this is a coincidence that all three contracts were backloaded this much. Heath Bell, three years, $27 million. The first year, they paid him $6 million. $6 million was paid out of that three-year deal. Mark Burley is the most egregious one. Four years, $58 million. The Marlins paid him $6 million in the first year. The last two years of that deal were $18 million and $20 million. So clearly, the plan all along was, hey, once they pay for our stadium, we'll pretend we're actually investing in

the team. We're going to backload the shit out of these contracts. So we're never on the hook for any of this money. And we're going to pay them like less than half. And in this case for Burley, almost a third in the first year of what somebody else is going to have to pay for them later on. And they traded all of those players played one year. And to add to that, after everything had worked out for the Marlins, David Sampson, you may have seen him on Levitard's show a lot, and he was, I think, the first guy off a survivor, which is the least surprising thing ever. He said, quote, I don't have to hold back now that the stadium is built. We're not the smartest people in Miami, which didn't go over well, insulting everybody there in Miami. But then he was, I guess, trying to compliment everybody that was in that room.

I mean, he has a ton of quotes over the years that don't make a ton of sense. When they were talking about potentially moving to Vegas, he was like, hopefully the casinos will buy all the tickets to keep people in the casinos and out of the ballpark. Quote, we don't care if nobody comes, we'll play in front of nobody and we'll have all the money. But here's where it gets really gross because the Marlins who were bought for around 150 million, I've seen 153, 158 back in 2002. Remember that was part of John Henry getting the Red Sox ownership, the Expos folding up and then Loria coming down to Miami, which was the worst thing that could have happened for that community. But it was another handpicked Bud Selig owner owner transaction so i guess bud selig liked it they're bought for 155 million ish

in 2002 they sold for 1.2 billion like 15 years later it's another reason why whenever the owners complain about all lose money, they're fucking losing, which they're not. Again, my, my analogy is this. If I own a home where the utilities, mortgage and insurance are keeping me in the red every month, but I know that I'm going to be able to sell the home in 10 years for twice as

much as I paid for it, then I can probably handle the cost of, of operations or you'd like to think so, but that's never the math. They don't ever, they don't like to share that math with you because that math doesn't back up any position ownership ever has. I don't care about your day-to-day costs. If the appreciation is a guarantee and in what world is your business supposed to be guaranteed to make money?

And if you don't make money that somehow it's always the employee's fault, it doesn't make any sense. So they sell for $1.2 billion after clearing about a billion dollars on this. And then remember that part where the Marlins had to pay back the city some of the profits? Apparently that number is $5.5 million. If that number is...

I've looked it up. That's what I've seen. And it would make sense that that was just another way to fuck over Miami day. And then Samson, who was part of a levitar birthday show,

he came out and he was saying he was playing sort of the wrestling heel, but the video's out there. He said they started booing Samson as he came out because look, they, they ripped off the city. They lied. They pretended they signed it. Free agents.

They bragged about having a new direction as a franchise. They said that they traded the players because they weren't good. When you can tell because of the way the contracts were structured, these players were never going to stick around. And it was a total con. And Samson getting booed said, quote, here's why I love when you guys boo me, right? I want you to keep booing me because guess what? 1.2 billion. Fuck you. And you know what? He's right. He's right. And that's why I never take the owner's side. Good friend, Doug Gottlieb joins us. And here's the exercise. If you need help filling out your bracket, we're going to fill one out every single game with Doug. We'll get a final four in a national champion. All right. So Doug, I have all the games.

I'll run through them. I imagine in the first round or so, we can probably go a little quicker. We'll just bang them out. Are you ready? Vermont, National Champion. People are knocking their schedule. We'll get to that a little bit later because they do make threes. All right. Gonzaga, Georgia State.

I think we'll put the Zags in. Yep. Boise State, Memphis. Oh, it's a good game. I've seen Boise four times in person, and they've gotten better every time, but I've also walked away like, man, are they good? Are they just okay?

A weird team. They won their league. They won their conference tournament. Memphis, one of the hotter teams in the country. The old team. They won their league. They won their conference tournament. Memphis, one of the hotter teams in the country. The old addition by subtraction. Chaka there, Monte Bates gone, and they start to win. But Boise's

old, man. They got old dudes. They got a bunch of fifth and sixth year guys. I'm going to take Boise State. Okay. I'm going to take Boise State to win. UConn, New Mexico State. Closer game than people think. New Mexico State, really talented.

A lot more talented than. I like this UConn club, though. I like R.J. Cole. They have all the makings of one of those fun UConn clubs that go on a little bit of a run here. I do think it'll be a close game. Sit there and go, like, Mexico, really? But they have way better players than anybody else in the MAAC.

They have a lot of size, a lot of athleticism. I think it'll be like if I was doing gambling picks, I would take an under and close, but I think you're going. Okay. Arkansas, Vermont. I don't know if you can. I don't know if Arkansas is ready for the Ryan Davis Ben Chungu combo but I do think it's a weird game like for Arkansas like they've had so many duds and no shows right especially outside their own arena so uh I'm gonna take Arkansas but

John Becker man see everybody says he can't get a job because he's boring. Like, I don't know. Is winning really that boring? First of all, he's not boring. But I could see why if you don't know him, you would be like, oh, you know, because he's not going to come into the interview and do the thing where it's like it's about energy, it's about culture, it's about all these things. The guy can fucking coach, right?

He can coach multiple different ways. He's had the best run of talent that UVM has ever had, even with the prior coaches before him. The fact that he's still there, and look, I love that he's at UVM, but I can't believe a bigger school hasn't hired him because it's not just that he's recruiting to Burlington, which is a great town if you actually visit it, but it's not some destination place for hoopers. And now guys have been going there steady for years and he's changed what they've done so many different times that he adapts to his players.

I can't believe he's still there. So there you go. Yeah, but how about UMass is now hired, you're going to hire a second coach and he's like right down the road. You can't do better than John Becker. I don't understand. I don't know, man.

I mean, it's UVM's win, but I just realized, you know, anybody's competitive and Becker should have a much bigger job. I mean, he's just, he's proven it. All right.

Bama and the two different options here, Rutgers and Notre Dame. Obviously, Notre Dame's favorite in that game. So go ahead, give us that one. I think, I think Rutgers wins that game. Okay. The Notre Dame game. So go ahead, give us that one. I think Rutgers wins that game. Okay. The Notre Dame game.

And then I think Bama beats Rutgers. Bama's a weird team too, right? They've tried to figure out the point guard spot. Is it J.D. Davidson's team? I think it is. They have some total no-shows as well. But I do think the SEC is going to have a really good tournament because I think they have really good players and they're well-coached.

So I'm going to go – I'll go Bama. But again, this will be a close game. Rutgers or Notre Dame, either one. Notre Dame will hold the ball a little bit on them. Rutgers, they play slow and very physical. So I do think, you know, Rutgers at times doesn't really have a point guard. They play Mulcahy at times at the point. He's got like your typical white headband guy.

Does every white headband guy have to be the type of guy you want to punch? Is that a rule? I can't believe Virginia Tech's point guard doesn't wear a white headband. Murphy. And then they got another kid coming off the bench from Oklahoma. That kid should wear a headband too. I was the kind of guy that should have worn a headband. I should have worn a headband,

but I didn't. These are missed opportunities. All right. Three seed, Texas tech, Montana state. Uh, there's a guy sprinkle is going to get a job,

but, um, a Texas tech, you know, a really, really old going to get a job, but, um, a Texas tech, you know, a really, really old team. They struggled to score some, but not against Montana state,

Michigan state Davidson. So, you know, foster lawyers, their point guard, he was like the backup at Michigan state last year. They played for Dane five's dad in high school. Um, I don't love Michigan state, last year. He played for Dane Fyfe's dad in high school.

I don't love Michigan State, but you're going to run like motion. I don't see it for Davidson. They're really well coached and they're really good. They're one of the few teams that plays a true motion offense. They don't really move it. That's hard to scout against, but I do think there's a talent

factor. I think this one's really close. I think Michigan State will. Duke, I imagine, over Cal State Fullerton. We'll get to Duke a little bit later. Baylor, pencil them in over Norfolk. North Carolina, Marquette. Weird one, right? Because we talked about Marquette at the start of the year

and then we pretend like they didn't exist the rest of the year. And then North Carolina, we all thought sucked at the start of the year, and then we pretend like they didn't exist the rest of the year. And then North Carolina, we all thought sucked at the start of the year, and then obviously they came on strong at the end of the year. I do think one way to rattle North Carolina is to make it into a run and jump, kind of streetball, AAU sort of game, where they want to be more regal. But I like this kind of North ball, a sort of game where they want to be more regal. But I, I like this kind of North Carolina crew recently in their,

their guards. Um, I'll take North Carolina by slight margin. Their bench isn't very good. All right. St. Mary's against either Wyoming or Indiana. Indiana is really good.

It was Xavier Johnson playing well. They're so much better. Wyoming's funky. Wyoming, if you look at their splits, the first half of the season when people saw them in Mountain West, Wyoming generally dominated the league. In the second half, people kind of started to figure them out. They kind of invert their offense.

Except for one big EK, they can all shoot and they post up some of their guards. They're just a little weird to play against. I'm going to take Wyoming to win the first one and then St. Mary's to win

the first round. Knowing full well, I think Indiana's probably better, and Indiana would give... Indiana and St. Mary's would be a hell of a game. Both like to play slow. Both would play like in the 50. They're both really good defensively. But I think St. Mary's beats Wyoming.

That's where we're going. Alright, UCLA-Akron. UCLA. Texas-Virginia Tech. Virginia Tech, people very upset about an 11 seed there. I'm not sure they watch Virginia Tech all year. That's all. They just parachuted in and they watched in March.

They're like, oh, my God, Virginia Tech, ACC. The ACC actually sucks. Texas is a hard team to figure man they just go stretches without scoring stretches I'll take Texas Purdue, Yale closer than you would think

because Purdue doesn't really guard but they're so big, Purdue you had a really good, well you know I'll wait on Purdue a little bit later I want to do it later though, as we get, we keep moving here. Uh,

Murray state, Murray against San Francisco, seven, 10. Murray. I like San Francisco. I've seen him all year. I think the speed and quickness,

they, they have like a speed and quickness, um, ability that nobody else in the mountain West has. I think Murray has that. All right. Jabari Bouye, he's a stud, fifth-year guy for San Francisco, but he's just quicker than everybody in the WCC.

I don't think that's the case to get outside the WCC. All right. We'll point to Pennsylvania and Kentucky against St. Peter's. All right. Arizona. We'll just go ahead and put them down as the one seed. That's Wright State Bryant. People are wondering.

Dude, that kid from Bryant. All set with that. He's exactly what you think a white kid from a school in Rhode Island that you'd never heard of would be like if he led the country in scoring right I just always thought it was funny when you'd be like like you get that I don't defend Marshall Henderson right like you get that I don't like you know whatever like certain players get criticized you'd be like so does that mean you think I like Marshall Henderson you think think I like watching this? All right. All right. Seton Hall, TCU.

Good one. I'll go TCU. Over the hall. All right. Yeah, kids in the hall. All right. Houston, UAB. I really like Houston before injuries, and I like UAB. I'll like Houston before injuries and I like UAB

I'll go Houston yeah they're missing like two guys and they're still winning games huh yeah two starters two of their best players alright Illinois against Chattanooga I wouldn't be close

but I'll take Illinois okay Colorado State against Michigan everybody loves that Roddy kid I wouldn't be close, but I'll take Illinois. Okay. Colorado State against Michigan. Everybody loves that Roddy kid from Colorado State, the football player. Hey, Roddy? Yeah. Yeah, he's from Minnesota. He's good.

I don't think Michigan's guards are great. I think Colorado State will eat them alive I'll go with Colorado State alright Tennessee against Longwood yeah okay

moving on Ohio State Loyola um Ohio State they needed the time off they're actually really good have you seen that freshman play they have yeah Malachi Barnum yeah he's dead he's dead Ohio State. They needed the time off. They're actually really good.

Have you seen that freshman play they have? Yeah. Malachi Barnum? Yeah. He's dead. I follow the program on Twitter. I get a lot of the clips. All right. Villanova, Delaware.

Nova. All right. Kansas, we'll just put through. San Diego State, Creighton. Oh, tough one. I would pick Creighton straight up. They're playing better than I thought. They don't have Nembhard, their point guard.

I'm going to think San Diego State. Okay. All right. Iowa, Richmond. Iowa. Providence, South Dakota State. I want to be close. South Dakota State's good.

I'll take Providence. LSU against the Cyclones, Iowa State. LSU. All right. Wisconsin, Colgate. Wisconsin. And then USC, Miami. USC.

And I'm sure it's Auburn over Jacksonville State. Okay. All right. So back to the top of the West. We have Gonzaga, Boise State. Gonzaga. Okay. UConn, Arkansas.

Let's see here. I'll go with UConn, Arkansas. Let's see here. I'll go with UConn. Bama, Texas Tech. Texas Tech. Michigan State, Duke. Duke. Baylor, UNC in the east. Baylor.

St. Mary's-UCLA. Oof. Oof. UCLA. Texas-Purdue. Purdue. Murray State-Kentucky. That's going to be a great game I'm going to take Kentucky but that'll be a great basketball game

Arizona TCU Arizona Houston Illinois Illinois Colorado State Tennessee Tennessee Illinois. Colorado State, Tennessee. Tennessee.

Ohio State, Nova. That's a good game. That's a good game. Nova. Nova. Kansas, San Diego State. game. Nova. Kansas. San Diego State. Kansas, but not by a lot.

Iowa. Providence College. I'm going to go. I'm going to go Iowa. All right. So Providence kind of had their run this year where it was all these close games. I pay more attention to them. Family connections in the program.

Long history with the Friars. But what Keeganray's doing for iowa right now can you give us a little bit of breakdown on this kid so uh he and his twin brother were not crazy heavily recruited um dad played at i. He's all of six, nine. And I, you know, he just gets better every time you see him, every time you see him and he does all kinds of little things because he, he wasn't a big scorer last year. Right. So he's, you know, I think his defense is really good, pretty good. I think he uses his length and always

contesting missed shots. He's a willing passer, but he's so big that whether it's a fadeaway or just a straight-up jump shot, he has confidence to just rise and get it up over people. He's unbelievable. Great hands, gets his hands on everything,

doesn't drop a ball when it's thrown his way. No real ego. Here's one for you you know how teams get teams to the start of the year like every nike team gets the nike this year it's the kairi team shoes yeah and then i would say 99 of all stars in college basketball kind of do their own thing. I think over the manager, they're like, I want MJs. I want this. I want that kids.

He's the only one I've seen still wearing the team's shoe. Still wearing the tube. He's white, white, basic Kyrie's. And I was like, still rocking those. He's like,

yeah, I like them. Is it? Yeah. I like them. You think about maybe, I don't know, getting some like,

nah, I like these. You're fine. You know what? know, getting some like, nah, I like these, they're fine. You know what, that's a really important story. People can laugh and be like, no, you don't get it. That's totally like, if you're wired that way, that's the kind of guy you want. Yes, yes. And his brother's sneaky good too.

But he's great. I would say in the NBA, he's a, you know, he's that same Jabari Smith sort of position, right, where he's a three, four, and play some two as well because he can handle and shoot. I'm not sure he's not a more refined version of Jabari Smith. I really like Jabari. He's an number one overall pick.

He's really, really good. This kid's really good. Okay. LSU, Wisconsin. Most years, I would take LSU because they just have dudes, right? You get what big ass offers is dudes. This case,

I will take Wisconsin because Wisconsin has a dude, Johnny Davis. The guy can just win them games. That's the difference to them in previous years. They have a guy who can go win them Davis. A guy who can just win them games. That's the difference to them from previous years. They have a guy who can go win them games. I think Johnny can go win the game. All right. USC-Auburn.

I mean, Auburn's guards can drive you crazy. Crazy. Crazy. But somehow that works for Bruce where they don't play scared in the NCAA tournament. So I'm going to go with Auburn. They should play a little bit more scared than they do, but they don't. They don't give a shit.

No, they don't. They don't. And anytime I've watched, I don't know, five of the last seven Jabari games, and I just want to be like, can somebody get a mock draft to this backcourt? And they don't read the mocks. Nope.

When kids say they don't read the mocks and we never believe them, I'd believe that backcourt that they've never read a mock draft. Or that they're trying to prove every mock draft wrong. That's something. Okay, let's head back to the West as we move on to Elite Eight. Zags, UConn. Oh, good game. I'll take Zags.

What a very close game. All right, Texas Tech, Duke. This is a Duke team. Latest projection on ESPN. It's five first-rounders. That might be a little aggressive. There may be, but there's four. There's definitely four.

And Bencaro is somebody who if you watch in glimpses and i've said this i'll see it like when you watch certain parts of it you go how is anybody going ahead of this guy but then i think oh well you start watching more of the stuff but i don't love worrying about kids that float especially when aj griffin is a lottery guy now and there's other guys that want to show that their first round picks. So I can't tell if it's a Paolo thing or if it's a Duke thing, but it now feels like, even with all that talent, people are just a little scared off from Duke. And it probably has to do more with the North Carolina game than it does the Virginia Tech game. Agreed. I'm going to take

Duke, knowing that Texas Tech can take you out of everything you want to do. But the way to beat Duke and to score against Duke is with middle ball screens. That's not how Texas Tech... I just don't know how Texas Tech will score. I don't know how Duke will score, but I think Texas Tech will struggle even more to score, even against Duke, who's not great defensively.

So I will take Duke for what will be it. I mean, Texas Tech, those guys are grown men. They got like four of their 24-year-olds, 24 years old or older. They're going to get after you. That one's a game for the under, but a game I think you take Duke because they can just score a little more. Where are you on Paolo then? I like him. I like him a lot. I wouldn't take him ahead of Jabari. I'm honestly not

sure I'd take him ahead of Keegan, but I like him a little bit more than Chet. Just because I have so many questions about what Chet's body and game looks like when he puts on 30 pounds. Okay. All right. We'll get to Chet. I just don't know where it goes.

All right. Because he doesn't have big shoulders. Baylor, despite missing a ton of guys and maybe people are cooled on him a little bit here against the UCLA team that you know

makes it to the conference final I think that's maybe part of the knock on UCLA in Arizona some people think that I don't know do you think the Pac-12 was worse than any other power five

no the ACC was worse the bottom the bottom of the bottom of the back. Tell us pretty bad. Right. It's pretty bad. Okay. Um, Oh,

they're all bad. I mean, they, but their bottom of the back is bad, right? Like you're talking cow and they're also traditionally good programs, right? Cal Washington,

Stanford. Like those are good programs to be down at the bottom there. Utah, ugh, awful. And Arizona State was disappointing this year. Colorado is still disappointing. And then Oregon, I think everybody thought Oregon would have this finishing kick and would be in the tournament, make some noise. They're not.

So it's fair to say that for the Pac-12. It doesn't take away from UCLA's team. You can come from a shitty league and be good. I think UCLA wins this one. Purdue, Kentucky. Give me your Jaden Ivey here because he's

a projected top five. I have one team that told me they have him second. That's not the final decision maker and i don't think this team's going to be in the mix so it doesn't matter i have a bigger thing that i'm working on with the with the top picks but um i i would agree with he's so impressive physically but i think as you said i forget which game was it the illinois game recently i forget where you were like i what the hell is going on? I watched him a couple days in a row. And, yeah, you know, there's a connectivity issue there, it feels like,

you know, where he's playing and kind of doing his own thing and Purdue is playing and kind of doing their own thing. It doesn't always feel like it's one thing. But he has traits that you're like, wow, he's got a gear nobody else has for a kid his size too because he's a good six two six three he's got good positional size and he's a freak athlete with that kind of russell westbrook explosiveness and downshift and then he's incredibly agile going to the hoop but But his game is also very underdeveloped in terms of some of the refinement in going to the basket. Like he knows how to snake a ball screen, but sometimes when he goes up to shoot,

he leaves himself in a position where he can only shoot. He can't pass or he goes up to pass. He can't shoot. His shot that he has is more of a kind of a set shot which he's gotten to where he can really make but i do wonder you know if he can shoot off a ball screen or off a catch a little quicker in the pros he's really really talented but the the the issue with him is there's a there is a uh there's a level of confidence that borders on arrogance with how he carries

himself. And like, look, we've seen it with other guys and it's worked. You know, there's a lot of critical criticism of Trey young when he came out of not being kind of one of the guys, Michael Porter, June, like those guys are, Scott's called bubble boys, right? Where they're raised with one thing in mind has to become a pro basketball player. And they, they, they miss some of the, I guess,

lack of a better word, normalness of just regular dudes. And I think Jaden might fall into a little bit of that. There's definitely an awkward sort of interaction with him and his teammates. They know he's more talented than they are. He knows he's more talented than they are, but it's all about how it translates, I guess. And you can really see it in person and not the only one with this thought.

So what does that mean for the NBA? Well, look, he's going to have way more space to get downhill, and he'll be incredible. If he continues to improve his jump shot the way he did from year one to year two, he should be incredible. But if you're going to be the face of a franchise and star player, guys have to want to play with you and play for you.

I don't know if he's that guy just yet. Yeah. And by the way, my, my Illinois call, it was the Indiana game. Illinois. He was terrific. He wasn't, he just had a bad game against Indiana. I'm not saying I'm writing him off. All right.

So Purdue, Kentucky, you got Kentucky then? Yes. Okay. All right. To the south. Arizona, Illinois. Arizona. Tennessee, Nova.

Nova. Kansas, Iowa in the Midwest. That's a heck of a game. Um, this, by the way, this Kansas team is not like it's a one seed talent wise.

This isn't even really, it doesn't feel close to some of these other Kansas one seats right now. I know this is not even debated. This is, this is, this is actually, I, I could, I could make a case. Now this is not even debate. This is, this is, this is actually, I, I could,

I could make a case. Now I says Bill's best coaching job, but one of the things that happens to Kansas in the NCAA tournament is it does become about Jimmy's and Joe's right. Like it shows how great a coach he is that they can win, win their league with this group. But this is not a national championship group. You know,

DeJuan Harris is just okay at the point guard spot. And then, you know, your center is a nice player. He kind of plays above his level sometimes. He's just okay. I mean, Ojai Baji's great talent. He's become a great player. He doesn't strike me as like an alpha that can carry this team to a national championship.

So I'm with you. You have me against Iowa. I'll take Iowa for the win. Why not? All right. America needs farmers. Wisconsin, Auburn. Oof.

Auburn. At this point with Wisconsin, beyond Johnny Davis, it just scares the hell out of you, right? Correct. Okay. All right. Now our final four picks.

Give me your Chet Holmgren full breakdown. Gonzaga against Duke. So I talked to a GM that you and I both know well during a game, and he was like, have you ever seen a hunchback play in the NBA? I was like, I don't believe I have. I was like, I guess we're about to find out. He's like, I don't think I can take him. He's like, I don't, I don't think I can take it. I mean, you can't take him. It's like, you know, what does that look like when you have 30 more pounds put on you?

And I think the big thing is Ryan, you and I have, we watched prospects for years, right? And you're trying to figure out what they're going to look like when they develop. And it really is an art, but he does not have wide shoulders. And you just wonder like most of these guys like Jabari, he's thin, but you can tell when you put weight on, he's just going to be a monster with those big shoulders and arms. I just don't know what Chet looks like or how he moves when he has that way. I think he shoots it a lot better in the NBA. I think he'll continue. There's nothing wrong with the shot.

Just a matter of volume and of space that he'll get. I think ultimately he'll have to defend fives, but he just will get shoved out of the way right now. And yeah, I don't, again, I don't know what it looks like when he fills out. That's,

that's, that's, I think the big, big question is not now it's trying to forecast the future, what that looks. Yeah. I got to tell you what, the way he moves kind of scares me it does yeah yeah that's why it's going to take somebody with some juice some equity as a general manager to go i'm taking him one um but i don't i don't know because i do love his game i love the way he impacts the game in a very, very unique way.

And, and he can, there's two different things. His movement at his size is incredibly impressive, but the movement in between some of the stuff he's doing, I just watch it and go, I kind of know, I really locked in during the conference tournament with him. And, uh, and I still like him too. No. And I'll tell you that also the people that have known him for a long time, like him as a, as a kid too, you know, some of have known him for a long time like him as a kid, too.

You know, some of these guys, they get this little following and they just wear you out. So I'm with you. I like him. But I wasn't like Jabari Smith kind of takes your breath away. Yeah. Because he's not as big, but he moves like he's a guard. And he just does things kind of naturally. We're like, oh, that's what a star player does.

Chet has this in factor with his length finding the basketball. And I do believe that he'll be a big shot maker just because he didn't like Durant. He shoots over guys, but doesn't move like Durant, doesn't rebound like Durant did when he's a freshman. And I do wonder what it looks like when he puts on some size. And remember when Durant came out, people were like, yeah, but he doesn't post up enough. Yeah. Well, he had no strength.

He had no strength. And so you're like, what's that look like? I'm like, I guess it doesn't matter. Nope, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. When you're one of the smoothest scoring forwards the game has ever seen. Maybe the most. I mean, he's unbelievable. He dropped 50-54

the other night. You don't want to miss that. You're like, man, I don't want to miss this. On the other hand, he's just different. Okay, let's do the final four in the title game. We'll wrap it up here. So Zags-Duke in the West. I'll do... I'll take Duke. Okay. UCLAcla kentucky in the east kentucky arizona nova in the south

um arizona hello nova you want to play that no thanks iowa auburn in the midwest wow wow uh i'll take auburn Auburn in the Midwest? Wow. Wow. I'll take Auburn. Okay, that leaves us with Duke against Kentucky. Kentucky. Arizona-Auburn.

Auburn. And for your national championship, two SEC squads from a Big 12 kid, Kentucky. Alright, from a Big 12 kid. Kentucky. All right. They cut down the nets. New Orleans, April 4th.

Thanks, Doug. Thanks, Abra. Medicine Inferred Artest joins us today on the podcast. Now, you're not going to know this, but you are one of my all-time favorites. I'm a huge St. John's fan. And so I love that 99 team. And I remember for the Ohio State game, the Elite Eight, I was in the grill and I just got into town and I sat down with my food and a beer

and I'm like, I'm going to watch this game. It's going to be the best. And then a bus of Ohio State fans got off at the same spot in the grill and then it was just the worst. Yeah. I love that team, man. Yeah, we had a really good team. That game was really

unfortunate. I mean, we lost by two. Michael Rez, Tony Penn. They had a really big guy, too. Johnson. Johnson, yeah, really big guy. Yeah, yeah. He was like, you know, kind of strong and, you know,

could finish around a basket. But that really hurt us, man. That was to go to the final four, man. That really hurt. Right. And you would have played UConn too. I know, because they just beat us

in the finals, you know, and they won a title that year. It would have been really good to, you know, try to get them back. But it was definitely a great ride. Yeah, I love that team because Eric Barkley, at that point, he was young. And he was great.

And Bootsy, LeVar Postel. And then you had your guy Reggie Jesse, too, who was a hometown guy, right? Yeah, Reggie Jesse. Me and Reggie from the same neighborhood. And then we had Tyrone Grant, who was really good that year. We had a really good team. I thought we was going to win it that year i mean we from the year before that and then you fast forward to the second year my sophomore year it was just night and day yeah what was it about because i know fran had you the first year and then mike jarvis took over

that year you guys had the tournament run but i mean was it why st john's other than the location obviously but why st john's oh you know i mean, was it – why St. John's? Other than the location, obviously. But why St. John's? You know, I mean, I was – Franny pretty much built that team, you know, for the most part. And then, you know, he got fired and got Jarvis. And Jarvis is kind of like an NBA coach, like real relaxed and calm. And St. John's is New York City. You know, I wanted to always play and win a title in New York City. I'm kind of a proud New York City guy when it comes to basketball.

And that was the main reason I wanted to bring a title to St. John's. I had other schools. You know, my major was, I was going into college majoring in architecture. So Miami was probably the place I should have went to. The Notre Dame, I visited Notre Dame and they had a great architect program. So that was probably where I should have went. But when I was thinking about it, I was just like, you know, if we could get a national

championship right here in New York City, that would have been big. And, you know, I think when Tyrone broke his wrist in midseason, I think that really hurt us because it took him a while to get back. He wasn't quite the same. And he was averaging 20 and 10 at that point in time. So, yeah. Yeah, because it took him a while to get back. He wasn't quite the same. He was averaging 20 and 10 at that point in time.

Yeah, because it was a smaller team, but it played like a New York City team. That's what I... I was going to St. John's Games in the early 80s, and I just always felt like that program was a reflection of the city. Now, things have changed in the Big East in itself. Do you still do anything with the program at all? Do you have any connection at all? I'm not doing much with the city. And now, you know, things have changed in the big East in itself or anything like that. Do you, do you still do anything with the program at all?

Do you have any connection at all? Um, I'm not doing much with the program. I've been, I saw Luke on a second statue of bill. So I went to go see that. I did some zoom calls. We had like a old school,

1999 zoom call. So all players was on with the new coach. And we also did some other things. Um, you know, but I'm a big fan of St. John's. You know, I like what they're doing over there. Yeah. So you don't get drafted by the Knicks.

It's been over it. But what were those? Let me back up. Just because your style was different. Your approach to the game, at least back then, because you came much bigger score in the NBA. But it was almost like, I'm just going to impact the game. I'm going to be out here. You're not going to run was almost like, I'm just going to impact the game. I'm going to be out here.

You're not going to run anything for me. I'm just going to impact the game. And that's what I always felt like you coming into the pros. So how was that transition for you from realizing like, hey, I actually am, I can be even better than I am as a college player, at least those first couple of years in Chicago. Well, I mean, it was all about the teaching. I knew I had the work ethic.

I mean, I was 6'6", a really good NBA body. I don't think I got a lot of the teaching that other players got, but I had the heart. But when I got to the NBA and I got with Larry Bird, one season I got with Larry Bird and Chuck Person, my scoring started to go way up. Working with NBA people, you just get better. Working with Pete Myers, I worked with Pete Myers a lot in my rookie year, so a lot of credit to Pete. And then in Indiana,

got with Isaiah Thomas as a head coach. Then Isaiah got fired. Then I got with Chuck Person in the Summertime, and then Larry Bird playing with Reggie Miller, you know, things like that. I mean, you're just going to get better. And I always knock a score,

but scoring wasn't important to me because I know the game of basketball. The game of basketball, it's the little things. That's what wins games. So playing for Riverside Church, you know, Ernest Lodge and Thurman Player, we had Lamar Odom, Elton Frank. None of us ever averaged over 15 points.

So we knew how to win just by playing hard and just being ready. So when I got to St. John's, it was the same type of basketball. I was probably one of the best on the team, but I wasn't demanding the ball like that. It was like, everybody just moved the ball and let's just win, right? Deflections, charges, steals, hustle everybody just moved the ball you know and let's just win right deflections charges steals hustle dive for the ball that type stuff but when you get to the NBA you know everybody's not on that same page you know when I got to the NBA it wasn't a lot of that like diving you know my work the year was like I don't know what was going on we were losing um and then I figured that I had to score the ball

because that's the only way I can control a game. So I got better on my offense so that I could be in control. So for the majority of my career, the ball was going through me and me and Jermaine in Indiana. Then Sacramento, I immediately became number one option. Houston, with Yao, with Tracy. You're looking at playoffs, I averaged 20-plus. And then with the Lakers, I didn't really have to do much.

But I was with Kobe and Powell, right? R.I.P. Kobe. So at that point, it was just like, sit back. But I was 29 in my prime when I was taking a huge rollback, which was not ideal for a 29-year-old when you're trying to get one more contract. But for the majority of my career, I was pretty much the office is going to me for the most part.

How important was it for you to get out of the city of Chicago? It wasn't important. I wanted to stay in Chicago. Mentally, I wasn't ready for Chicago. Right, but I've to stay in Chicago. I just, mentally, I wasn't ready for Chicago. Right. But I've heard you in other interviews where you admit that it wasn't so much the basketball part of it, but the off-the-court thing. Like, did you... Oh, yeah.

I didn't want to leave Chicago, honestly. But I think, like, when I first got there, the first thing I did was went to the hood. Like, the first thing I did, I went to Robert Taylor. I was in Robert Taylor Projects, Cabrini Green with some of my friends. You know, I was always really comfortable in the hood. I would drive back to New York City, go I went to Robert Taylor. I was in Robert Taylor Projects, Cabrini Green with some of my friends. I was always really comfortable in the hood. I would drive back to New York City, go right back to Queens Bridge, stay in the hotel next to Queens Bridge. So at that, I was really comfortable. And I wasn't really comfortable in a setting where it's professional.

You got money, get your own apartment. So I was just always in the streets as much as possible. And then that kind of like, I was living kind of like two separate lives, like playing, you know, I was playing with the Bulls. And I wasn't, I wasn't, I didn't, it just didn't set in that, you know, I was an NBA player, you know, it didn't set in quick enough. Were people surprised? Were people like, whoa, you know, it didn't set in quick enough. Were people surprised?

Were people like, whoa, you know, our test is here again this weekend? Or, I mean, for a while, I imagine people were normal about it, but go ahead. Not really, because I'm from Queensborough, but Mobb Deep is from, you know, so people knew I was from the project. So when people see me, you know, and Mobb Deep was hot at 99, you know, and people knew I was from Queensborough because I always talk about it. So just being in the neighborhoods, you know, 99. You know, so, and people know I've complained because I always talk about it. So just being in the neighborhoods, you know, it was just like, oh, you know, the bread hummus here today.

You know, stuff like that. All right, so you make it to the Pacers. What was the best conversation you had with basketball about Larry Bird? Or what's the best basketball conversation you had with Larry Bird? I had lots of conversations with Larry Bird about basketball. But mainly it was like how to score.

I remember asking, you know, Larry, because I was working with him like every day when Chuck Person was on the court. Larry Bird was like sitting kind of on the side coming down when he get a chance. You know, the work ethic was there and he gave us time. You know, this is one of my favorite moments in the nba you know i wish i could have stayed longer but larry bird gave his time you know um he gave a lot of time to me with that one maybe maybe two seasons maybe two summers i think and um you know getting my elbow in to shoot because i wanted to become a better shooter you know so him and chuck kind of got my shot right um Chuck got my drives right Larry also helped me with driving so then as you

can see the next season I was coming back you know I was on fire you know I almost I was in 25 and still the best friend I mean that was that was a recipe for MVP that you know um you know but I was but it wasn't all me it was It was a lot of Larry and Chuck. Yeah, I've said this and I've argued about it. And I'm not just saying it because you're on. But I think there was that stretch there where there was a really good argument you were a top five player in the NBA.

Oh, for sure. For sure. I mean, I made 13 All-NBAs. So that's top 15. You know, that was the year before. Then I came back averaging seven more points. Like, you know, it was was top 10 top five for sure for sure did you notice like how did people because that's that's different you know what i mean like we've had kawaii we've had yannis we've

had some really good development stories but usually if you were going to be one of those guys we kind of knew right away so was that did you notice how other people were talking to you about it whether it was on the court your teammates or that kind of stuff right away. So was that, did you notice how other people were talking to you about it, whether it was on the court, your teammates, or that kind of stuff? You're like, what's going on? I was just dominating. I was just dominating. You know, my position, even the year I was an All-Star, I know we had, I think my guy Vince Carter and my guy Tracy was there.

But we was the best team in the league. I felt like I should have started that year. Not because of anything else, but we was just the best team. You know what I'm saying? And then I remember when Coach Carlisle, it was the end of the game, and we lost that game. And I was like, it was the end of the game. I was like, Coach, you put me in the game, man.

Like, because all of a sudden, he put me in the game. Maybe he had too many. I'm like, this season, this is my season. You know what I'm saying? So I wanted to be in the game, put these guys on the bench. But, you know, with that being said, it was a point in time where, you know, all small forwards had to come through me.

You know what I'm saying? When the brawl happened, you know, I kind of took a year off, man. I had a year off. And then I got suspended again, you know, the next season, you know, for being detrimental to the team. So that's like, you know, more than 82 games of out. So I got up to about 273. And then when I got to Sacramento, it took me a while to come back,

but I never got back down to that weight I was at. But I was still averaging 20 a couple times. I was still playing very well. Made the first team all defense again, you know, and different things like that. But it wasn't, you know, and different things like that but it wasn't you know the rhythm was it was just uh it just the rhythm wasn't there like it was in indiana it wasn't there yeah that peak indiana stretch although it was short when you came back i'm like oh my god i'm

like what happened oh yeah i was like this is this is on. We've talked about the brawl a million times. I don't know what else is left to be said about it at this point. But is that how you got up to 273? We just, what happened? Well, I was like, I was training hard. I thought I was going to come back that year. So I was training hard, but then at one point I just got depressed, man. I'm just like, and then I was suspended indefinitely. You know what I'm saying? So I didn't even, but then at one point I just got depressed, man. And then I was suspended indefinitely.

You know what I'm saying? So I didn't even know what that meant. I mean, that means indefinitely, right? So it's just like, at this point, what else am I going to do? I'm training. I'm not playing. Nobody's saying anything. So I kind of stopped working out and partied a little bit.

And I mean, you talk about a 25-pound difference, you know, which was, you know, I was still young, so I was young enough to hold the weight and move it. And then as I got older, my weight went back down a little bit. But it was really unfortunate because I was in such a good rhythm. I was in such a good rhythm, man. It was really unfortunate. What was the worst conversation you had with David Stern

as you were trying to figure out when you were coming back? It wasn't no bad conversation. I mean, he just did a job. It wasn't like, you know, it was just come to the office and, you know, RIP David Stern. It was just like, come to the office and smiles, you know, because it is

what it is at this point. You know what I mean? How you doing? Hey, Mr. Stern, how you doing? Like, it wasn't like, hey, I want to play, you know, mean how you doing hey mr stern how you doing like it wasn't like hey i want to play you know uh even though i really did want to play but that was it it was uh and i actually spoke to him i interviewed him like maybe eight years ago before he passed away for my website so i mean we we had a solid conversation i mean a solid relationship after i wasn't happy with the suspension at all, but the relationship was kind of solid.

It was just business, honestly. Oh, so it was pretty functional is what you're telling us. It was just, yeah. I wasn't happy with the suspension. I'm not going to say, I'm never going to say I was happy with that. I wasn't happy with the suspension at all because I overreacted, you know, I didn't start Um, but you know with that being said, you know, but the relationship I mean it was just business

I understand it's not I always understood that this is not my business You know and so understanding that you just move on, you know So you wanted to go to Sacramento or you didn't want to go to Sacramento? Um, well when I got traded from indiana i was i was back and forth like hey i don't want to be here oh i want to be here i just play just playing too many games you know what i'm saying then finally i was going to the paper in a locker room is different right i can back up being in a locker room or i'll go take a meeting in the office with the general manager and vent. You know, I don't want to be here, you know, whatever the case may be, and then get over it.

But when you do it publicly, that's where you tie the general managers and the organization's hand behind their back. You know what I'm saying? So I gave Larry really no other choice because I said, I don't want to be here. He wanted me there. But I said, I don't want to be here publicly without him even knowing about it. So then what happens is he says, all right, cool. We're going to get rid of you. And then the next day I said, oh man, please take me back. I don't want to go. I'm just like going through a lot. And at that point it was too much because it's just going back and forth. So I gave Larry no other choice, you know, which is very unfortunate. So I'm not saying I didn't want to be a king. I'm saying that, you know, I handled it very unprofessionally. So when you asked Larry to keep you around,

at that point once it had become public, what happens? Like I know you got traded. Too much damage, man. Too much damage. The brawl happened. They had my back. They supported me. And then I come back the next season and say, you know,

I don't want to be there. It was actually, I mean, I was very irrational. You know what I'm saying? Very irrational. And I'm super competitive. So one of the things, there was a couple of things that happened that year, right? One of the things was I really didn't want to go back to Detroit in the Indiana uniform. Not because I didn't like Indiana, because I was traumatized. I was super traumatized. So I was really scared to go back, honestly. And then the other thing was, I was always very, I would say, stubborn. You know what I'm saying?

I was stubborn, just like any great player, whatever the case may be. So I didn't want to change because of the brawl. I didn't want to take my foot off that competitive gas or how I feel about myself because of the brawl. ass or how I feel about myself because of the brawl when I really should have. I should have been more, I should have had more empathy, I guess, towards everyone. But me, I take it up another notch, you know, instead of realizing that, hey, you know, the situation that happened put everyone in a tough spot. I didn't have that type of, you know, empathy, you know, when I was young. It was all about, it was all about me, honestly. I was't have that type of empathy when I was young.

It was all about me, honestly. I was very into myself. I asked Draymond Green this once, and he's a fiery guy, runs hot and everything. I mean, some differences, some similarities. And I said, is there any part of you, he gets thrown out of the game

in the NBA Finals, great argument to be made. He doesn't get thrown out of that. They don't blow the 3-1 lead. And I was just like know, is there any part of you, you know, he gets thrown out of the game, the NBA finals, great argument to be made. He doesn't get thrown out of that. They don't blow the three, one lead. And I was just like, Hey, do you think there's any version of you that they can dial? And this was in person. We were hanging out doing an interview in Toronto for the all-star weekend. And he just looked at me like I was the dumbest person ever. Like, he's like, why the fuck would, you know, like, why, why would I do that?

Because if I don't have this approach, this mentality, then I can't ever be here. I'm the fat kid from Michigan State that's a second round pick, you know? And that was kind of his point. And I also think, too, in fairness to you, you know, obviously you screwed up. You've talked about it a ton. But people understand you better now because you've shared so much more that I think there's at least a better way of kind of getting to where you've been at certain times in your career, even if people disagree with the outcome. Um, it's just

feels like people now know you better because you've shared more about you and that part of your DNA that this is just the way I, this is how I've always had to compete. Queensbridge, the whole part of it. I've, I've heard you talk about it. I've read about you talking about it, that, you know, we're, I mean, didn't you play in a pickup game once where somebody got killed or something? No, my friend, one of our idols died in a pickup game. Oh, okay. Yeah.

They had a little drama. And I wasn't there, but, you know, he didn't come back home. He passed away. His name was Lloyd Newton, actually. You know, I keep his name alive. His name was Lloyd Newton, one of our idols, you know. It was very unfortunate so the reason i bring all that up is just that is you're talking about it like you you almost had no choice like there was never another way that you were going to play is the point correct oh yeah yeah i was pretty intense i mean i was i was playing with

grown men for a long time i was playing with you, you know, a lot of my, some of my most amazing teachers, you know, being hustlers, you know, basically hustlers and dealers on the block. Honestly, that's where I learned the game from. And when those games is real intense, I'm saying those games get intense. It ain't about basketball. It's about your manhood, like, you know, and, you know, from learning that at an early age age it took me a while to um understand like we only play like that in queensbridge in the 90s we don't play like that everywhere else everywhere else you know you play basketball you have a fun time you know but you know and i and i think um you know as i got older i started to add a little meditation to my game

which which helped me focus on the game. You know, which I started to adapt that in Sacramento and then Houston. It was just the most amazing thing I ever because in Houston, I was probably my best in Houston. You know, in Houston, you know, I was hoping that version could have been in Indiana. You know,

I was hoping that version could have been in Indiana. You know, so, but I actually got could have been in Indiana. But I actually got my swag back in Houston. And then when I came to the Lakers, it was pretty much over because I was playing with Kobe and Pau. So that was good after that. I think the other thing that's misunderstood about you too is that actually once guys get to know how much they like you.

And I was watching you on All the Smoke Pod with Stephen Jackson and Matt Barnes. And Barnes, those guys are dying laughing that when you were in Sacramento and they had their We Believe run, you just started going to all the games, right? Because you were just so excited about what they were doing. It was crazy. I was just like, I mean, Dallas was, I think Dallas was number one that year. Yeah, they were. And they beat Dallas. Like, it was crazy.

Like, those are my friends, for one. And this thing is happening. And it's like, how do you get inspired? I was in Sacramento. I always knew I was going to be a champion. I mean, that's how I worked. I was working that hard. I was that type of player.

And I'm just like, wow, these guys are doing it. Because I was with a Sacramento team that we wasn't that good with the exception of the first year. But then they broke us up, which was like, I don't know what happened. But they broke us up. I mean, I get to Sacramento being last place. I tell them we go to the playoffs. We go to the playoffs.

We're the best team in the league the second half of the season. And then they break us up. But anyway, the next season was kind of, we didn't have as good of a team. And to see what these guys did, I'm like, oh, wow, this is how we got to play. Like, we just got to play. So I started to go to the game with the We Believe shirt. It was just, it was an incredible run. It was a historic run.

So you were going to the locker room, though, and just nobody, everybody was cool with it, right? I mean, I knew Al. I knew Stack. You know what I'm saying? And I was just like, I mean, I wasn't trying to be Stack. You know what I'm saying? And I was just like, I mean, I wasn't trying to be a warrior. I didn't want to be a warrior. But I was really like, yo, you guys are killing it. I'm like, this is, I bought some seats.

And I was just like, wow. It was incredible to see that. You know, Baron Davis. I know Baron. So I just wanted to go and support those guys. to see that. You know, Baron Davis, I know Baron, you know, so I just wanted to go and support those guys. As much as it hurt me as a guy from Massachusetts

in 2010, when you hit that three and you come back from down 3-2 with the Lakers, I was really happy for you because everything that you had gone through,

I was like, this is a great moment because you hit that big shot. You win a championship. And it's funny moment because you hit that big shot you win a championship um and it's funny too because you're still young you know like it's you've you played a long time and you played years beyond that but how do you remember that moment for you and your career kind of coming full circle through all the shit it was crazy yo that moment was crazy i'm not gonna lie because like that whole that whole year was crazy because i was That moment was crazy. I'm not going to lie. Because, like, that whole year was crazy.

Because I actually asked for a trade in November. Because I was like, there's no way this is going to work. I'm in my prime. And I just came off averaging 24 or something like that against the Lakers in the playoffs. And now I'm, like, not getting shots. So, you know, I told my agent, I said, yo, you got to get me out of here now. Then I met with Buss. I met with Dr. Buss and, you know,

it never really escalated. I handled it the right way. And, you know, it was just about, we had a lot of conversations and we met a lot. Like on Sunday, we had breakfast. They just talk about, you know, winning championships. You know what I'm saying? So it kind of made me, you know, winning championships. You know what I'm saying? So it kind of made me, you know, really take on the challenge of being a role player and perfecting that role.

Like being the best at that role. You know, some games I would get two shots. You know, some games I got 10. I just never knew. In the playoffs, I had my first two threes in game three against Boston. I had my first two threes and that was it. I got four shots. So that was more about staying in the moment,

team basketball. I learned so much from that process because it wasn't about me. It was about Kobe and Powell, but it was about the team. Fisher, we heavily relied on Derek Fisher. I don't know if we went without Derek, honestly. Derek hit more.

Derek hit just as many big shots as Kobe hit. And maybe more. I don't know. It's hard to say. You know, so, and then when you talk about that moment, I mean, well, I was 27-0 in high school. You know, 67-1 in AAU. You know, like, and then everywhere else.

I went everywhere. You know, everywhere. You know, so, I wasn't surprised. I was grateful. You know what I'm saying? I wasn't surprised. I was like, wow, like, my moment's here. And I didn't know that was going to happen.

You know, like, you know, I had some offensive rebounds. Got some missed shots. I got some steals. I got the ball on the block, you know. And then I got a, you know, then Kobe was the kind of soft double and routine basketball. And it just led to that. So it made me really feel like, you know, I almost was MVP,

which is like probably my biggest accolade that I never received. I finished sixth in MVP voting. You know what I'm saying? I got Defense Player of the Year, was an All-Star, got suspended a year where I was going to be more awards. That was going to be another first team All-Defense, probably second team All-NBA,

All-Star, you know, so, and now I got the championship, and I got the citizenship award. You know what I'm saying? So, I got that. So, it's like, so, I'm kind of happy, you know what I'm saying, with my career. I'm not all the way happy because I did want the MVP, and I wanted a first team all NBA. I didn't get those two, but, you know, it's okay.

What was the relationship like with kobe it was very it was very um it was it was it was just basketball honestly you know i i mean kobe beat me so many times so i'm not happy in practice for one because i'm super competitive you know what i'm saying so practice day one practice you practice, you know, my forehead like this, and I'm ready to go. You know what I'm saying? Kobe too. Kobe probably more ready to go.

So we had some situations in practice where we was able to compete against each other. You know, he did very well, and I was very physical. But then Phil Jackson has a concept where starters play with starters all year, no playing on other teams. So we had some really good moments. Well, I cherish those moments because I was able to compete against Kobe every day, not just like once every month or once every three months or whatever.

And he loves challenges. I mean, you can be as physical as you want with him. And he embraces it. He thrives. So for me, at times, you know, he's our best player. So at the same time, I don't want to overdo it. I don't want him to sprain a finger. You know, I don't want him to. But I still want to be physical because I'm competing and I'm trying to get better.

And he just embraced it, you know, which was like really cool. So we had a lot of, we talked a little smack, but then that was like when I first got there in 2009, 2010 or whatever, only maybe three weeks of really competing like that. Because after that, we just went to the starting group. And then we was on the same team for the entire season in every practice. So it was, you know, it was great. Yeah, because it does not surprise me that Kobe

would have embraced it. I can imagine there was some other guys throughout your NBA career where the practice experience, they hated you. I mean, in Indiana, they embraced it. Steve Jackson embraced it. You know, Matt Barnes embraced it, but some people couldn't deal with it. Francisco Garcia did a really good job because he's a tough guy. He's not big, though. He wasn't even 200 pounds, but I would really, you know, I would

go after him every day. And the reason I did, because he could take it. Some people couldn't take it, but for the most part, people was able to deal. People was able to deal with it. But it was tough guarding me every day in practice that's that's just not easy so if you look i'm giving 100 if you look at some of the guys today and i i know that like there there seems to be this push recently i know you've you've spoke on this about like hey can ben simmons

be in our test type and and you've shot that down. Why do you shoot that down? Because my career is not what I want it to be. I just don't think it's fair to compare me, even though I'm definitely one of the greatest wing defenders I've ever played. I have that. I got a couple things I can stand on. But I didn't finish the job, man. These guys are going to finish the job.

These guys are going to go and put, man. These guys are going to, you know, they're going to go and have, put up stats. They're going to win. Even though in my era, yeah, I would have, you know, I probably would have shut a couple people down, you know, but, you know, I just want these guys, you know, it's just not fair, you know, I just don't think it's fair to, you know, compare.

You know, if my career was complete, yeah. So I just don't think it's fair to compare those guys. I just think those guys would have a better career. There are players, and I think there's a bit of an overlap. It's usually players before your era and then into yours a little bit that kind of look at a guy like Steph Curry and they get frustrated

and think, well, if he played with us, how do you think you would do against Steph? What would you try to do against him?

I definitely would have had to guard him because I've guarded Iverson. You know, anytime, anytime a player was scoring a lot

on the wing, anywhere, Alex thinks, but anytime a player was scoring, I would come up with the assignment. You Alex speaks, but anytime a player was scoring, I would come up with the assignment. I would have to guard him. But now you're talking about a 255

pound, 260 pound small forward guarding Steph Curry who quick, that would have been difficult because I think that would have been a little bit difficult because even when I had one good game against Iverson, I guarded Iverson twice

where I was the assignment for that game. One game he might have had 13 or 15, and then one game he might have had 30 or something like that. So, you know, I can't really compare against Steph, but if you want to just compare the games when I did guard point guards,

that's the only thing. And it would probably have to be in my prime because I don't know if I could have guarded Steph Curry after 29. But if you look at what I did against Kevin Durant in the playoffs in 2009, I mean, if you look at how I was guarding those screens, I still look at that and I'm like, wow, that was a work of art. I mean, when you look at how I was dodging each screen at 255 pounds, 260, that's tough to deal with. So Stephen Curry, I don't know.

It's hard to say. I would have had to be in my prime to sustain him. I got to ask. I'm sorry because I got excited again when you talked about Iverson. What do you do? What do you do when you go, okay, all right, I'm sorry, because I got excited again when you talked about Iverson. What do you do? What do you do when you go, okay, all right, Iverson's the assignment tonight. What are the first things you're thinking about, the adjustment throughout it, talking to each other? Take us through that whole experience.

Well, I remember the first time they said, no, I think I was in Chicago or something. It had to be Chicago. I think it was Chicago. And I remember they was like, yo, you got Iverson tonight Chicago or something. It had to be Chicago. I think it was Chicago. And I remember they was like, yo, you know, you got Iveson tonight. Contain him. And I remember I wasn't really nervous, honestly, or anything like that,

but he's so quick. You know what I'm saying? So I would, and he's strong. He's not strong, but he can take any abuse. You know what I'm saying? I'm not too big for Iveson. You know what I'm saying? any strong, he's not strong, but he can take any abuse. You know what I'm saying? I'm not too big five, you know what I'm saying? So you can't really rough him up.

You know what I'm saying? So that was difficult. He's going to get in there. He's going to bump. He's going to get in ones. It's really, it's just, it was really weird to see him do that. And he was successful. I mean, he had had i played against ivan a lot of times for the most part he was putting up numbers

was would you guys talk to each other at all i didn't talk to nobody i didn't know you never said anything no not no uh no there's nothing to talk about i don't want to get dinner with you i don't want No. No. There's nothing to talk about. I don't want to get dinner with you. I don't want you to know nothing. Like, when I was playing, I was very, like, competitive. It stopped when I was, like, probably, I got to say, maybe, actually, maybe, like, 2013 or something. But I grew up not, you know, I grew up where you wasn't supposed to talk to the other opponent

ever, like ever, ever, ever. After the season, if you see him on Bahamas or something, yeah,

you say what's up. But, but you wouldn't even, but I mean, you wouldn't even be talking shit or anything like that? You just nothing. I didn't talk shit.

I just like, nothing. Just like, you know what I'm, you know what I'm coming to do. So it's very, it's that self-explanatory. You know what I'm coming to do. So it's very, it's that self-explanatory. You know what I'm saying?

And, but I wasn't talking, I didn't talk trash. I didn't talk trash to anybody. You know, I never talked trash and nobody really took, maybe Paul,

Paul did talk trash to me. Pierce, what did he say? Paul is probably the only one. And then Kobe, because actually, yeah, Kobe,

Paul, but then that's it. I don't think anybody anybody else i never had any back and forth with okay but you just laughed when you said paul because if anybody knows paul pierce that's actually pretty predictable all right so what did he say to you what did you guys talk about well paul was started for one like nobody was starting talking to me at that time but paul is crazy. Like, Paul would just start out like, you can't guard me. Like, he's incredible, man. Paul is crazy.

That was one of my rivals that we didn't really get a chance to like, but we did. Actually, he's probably my only rival for me personally because they swept us in Indiana one year. Then we came back and swept their ass. And then we beat them in the finals.

But I feel like if I was in Indiana and just stayed in the East, that rival would have been really cool. But it just didn't come to life like that. I'm a big Paul fan because I just feel like there's a part of him that, because it wasn't flashy. He's just not appreciated. Why was it so hard to guard Pierce? Well,

I'm not going to say it was hard. I'm going to say, no, no, I'm not. Cause nobody was hard. Some people would just had, could do things like,

you know, Kobe could shoot Durant's tall and fast. It is what it is. But Paul had everything. He could shoot. You couldn't give him an inch. You literally couldn't give him an inch. And people will always say, why are you always up on Paul like that?

Because if I give him any room, he going to score the basketball. I have to be in constant denial against Paul Pierce. The whole game. I can't let him touch it. You know, because, I mean, he get, you know, one dribble, bump, fade. That's catch. You know, one dribble left, that's catch. He can finish.

He's pretty athletic too you see i'm saying so that was you know he was super clutch also super clutch so i was it was all such things i had to worry about when i had to play against paul when you watch somebody like durant or janice now um you know you defended durant you never You never dealt with Giannis, right? Yes, he was young. He was real slim. I don't know. I'm kind of asking you to compare the two. I don't know

if you want to or not. They're different. I think they both definitely different. They're not the same. Giannis, when he first came into the league, everybody seen him. I think I threw him on the floor one time. You know?

I think I might have threw him on the floor. And now, you know, he's throwing people on the floor. It's night and day. And he grew, I think. I don't think he was that tall when he first came into the league. I think he's 7'1".

I think he's 7'1", or 7 foot, you know, which is like crazy. And then Durant kind of got more wired and strong. But Durant was real skinny when he came in. He chilled out. But by the time, you know, it was like 2012, he was ready. But in 2009, he was still really good. He was at 20-plus. But I don't think he was ready at that point in time.

You know what I'm saying? So, I mean, I would love to see those guys go at it in the playoffs, whatever the case may be. They're two different players. I mean, Giannis is for sure one of the most dominant players I've ever seen. He's a dominant player. He could have played in any era. It's been a great time chatting with you,

Meta. Before we say goodbye here, I want to double check on a couple things because I know you also have CBS, your Beyond the Edge deal. Tell us about that and then we're going to get to the Meta Panda Club stuff as well. Yeah, man. We got a CBS show called Beyond the Edge deal. Tell us about that and then we're going to get to the Meta Panda Club stuff as well. Yeah, man. We got a CBS

show called Beyond the Edge that I was a part of. The same producer that produced Survivor and is probably the most adrenaline I had since Game 7. I've never ever experienced anything like this competition that they put us through.

I never had a feeling like this with the exception of Game 7, Finals, or any other big game that I played in. And that's what this is. This show is nonstop. And I really hope people enjoy it. I can't wait to watch it again. I mean, I didn't see it yet.

I was part of it. But it was an insane experience and you know in the jungles of Panama we got there had to build our own like hut you know and we had to it was fishing for food living off bananas

and coconut water for a little bit of time we was sleeping in the pitch black jungle. They removed, I think, 16 boa constrictor snakes. So it was like all types of poisonous spiders, monkeys. They cleared out the area, but, you know, these monkeys were for sure present.

And they were not happy, you know, that we were there. How many days was this? You know, I can't speak on too much. Okay. Because, you know, things happen. But it's 10 episodes, which probably equated to, you know, maybe two weeks. But I can't, like, tell you everything. I don't want you to get in trouble here.

All right. So that's Beyond the Edge on CBS. So, metal being that one. And then I also know with the Metapanda community, you got X versus X Sports and the Metapanda Club. You guys have a million things going on. So, just give us a sense of what's going on. Yeah, man.

So, X versus X Sports is the platform I started. So, basketball players could get exposure and basketball enthusiasts. Some people dream of playing in the NBA. Some people dream of coaching, being a general manager, being a referee. Our platform, XSports, allows you to connect with basketball players and do that and get exposure for doing that locally, where some people work nine to five. They don't really have time to play basketball in between that time. So our platform allows you to stay connected

with the basketball community in your area. We also do stats on our platform. You can post content on X-Force, X-Force, the app, follow us on Instagram. And now we paired up with the Metapanda Club, which we're doing on NFT basketball games, the first ever NFT basketball games.

We have people where we let our fans on our Discord vote which players, you know, do you want to give an NFT to or you can vote for that. Tonight, we have a game, a woman's game, which is going to be launching that. And we have a couple other NFTs that's dropping and all focused on basketball. So definitely, if you know nothing about NFTs, follow us at X-First X-Sports, direct message us, ask us questions. And also the Meta Panda Club with 1T.

And direct message us if you want to get on the white list, you can do that. So we're just trying to connect offline and online basketball for the local community. I'm not really targeting a lot of... I'm not really targeting top pros like a lot

of other companies do. I'm focusing more on the everyday player and the player that's trying to make it. So that's kind of where we're at with it. Well, that sounds... That's a lot going on. I'm excited about the CBS stuff, stuff there as well. Look, as a long,

as a longtime Johnny's fan, I've rooted for you your entire career and it was great to get the chance to hang out, all right? Absolutely, man. Thank you.

You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. All right, what do we got here? 6'2", 225, 28, recently moved into a fixer-upper about six months ago. I got married two months ago. I have a friend who I had to convince my wife to let me invite to the wedding. He's been one of my best friends since childhood all through college. Wow.

So childhood all through college. He can just be a nightmare when he drinks. He loses his mind, starts fights out of nowhere, runs off and disappears for a few days, stuff like that. Runs off and disappears for a few days. I can't really describe how bad it is. It's definitely messed with our relationship. The wedding is a destination wedding within the United States,

but still an unfamiliar area that can be dangerous to run off by yourself in. Oh, God. All right. Anyway, I convinced my wife to let him come and it goes great. No problems at all. I start to think our relationship

is getting back to where it used to be. We text a few times over the next month about sports, other bullshit. Out of nowhere one night, I get a text from him asking to borrow 50 bucks. He's never asked to borrow money before, but I figured tough times and sent it right over. Over the next month, we talk again here and there. No mention of paying me back, but still haven't hung out since the wedding two months ago. One day I'm doing some work on my house, not really looking at my phone so I don't distract myself. Really trying to get this house done because on top of being newly married and just wanting to stop living in a construction zone, we're trying to have a baby. Anyway, I finished my work for

the day, checked my phone. I have five text messages and a missed call from this friend asking me to come to the bar. It's late and I haven't answered in a few hours, so I figured no need to answer and I go to bed. I wake up the next morning, two texts at 1.50 a.m. saying, quote, might need a place to live soon and quote, any chance. I try not to be heartless. I want to help people out where I can, but no mention of paying rent and he brings nothing to the table construction wise. Also, no explanation as to why he needs a place to live. Last I checked, he lived with his parents. Also, time frame on how long he needs to stay it's been about 24 hours since i saw the text i haven't responded he hasn't mentioned it

should i just continue to ignore it as a drunk tech drunk text um no clue what my next move is i'll tell you what your next move is is not fucking having this guy move in um that's the most simple part of it if you were by yourself and it's great that you have a big heart i think that you know that's a that's a commendable thing but it. If you were by yourself and it's great that you have a big heart, I think that, you know, that's a, that's a commendable thing. But it also like, as you read this out loud, you're like, what the hell's wrong with you? Why would you even think about introducing this kind of deal to your life? It doesn't make any sense.

Um, do you want your wife to hate you? You know, like, why would you go like whatever you're, no, there's every relationship is going to have a lot of problems. Uh, this is adding one. Now, if we want to move back to your line on this and being a little bit more sensitive to the issue here, clearly your friend has some real issues. And I don't want to diagnose stuff necessarily over an email here, but with my own experience with certain friends, guys you grew up with, guys you've become close with,

the guys that go in and out, the getting hammered and disappearing for days move, there's something going on there. I'll leave it at that. This is a pattern of stuff where it reminds me of a couple people where I would say that their day-to-day is very tough for them. I think you're totally clear. I know this sort of is a shitty thing to say, but when somebody has a pattern of this kind of behavior and then they send you crazy texts all the time, ignoring them sometimes is the right move.

Now, somebody would say, hey, that's ridiculous. If you care about this person, you need to reach out. You need to make sure that you can hit all right but there's a line of how much you can like be mentally supportive here there's a line of how much you would exhaust yourself knowing that you still have your own stuff that you want to do in your own life so if you want to feel better about it you can pull them aside and do the thing that almost none of us do and certainly men don't do very well where you go hey what the fuck is going on with you?

All right. Like I've known you your whole life. We know the whole deal. So when you send me this kind of stuff, like, is there something that can be done other than moving in with me? Now, if it were just you and clearly you care about this guy, then maybe you could help him get back up on his feet at $50. I don't think this email is about the 50 bucks, but I think in this case, it doesn't make any sense for you to be inviting this in to not only

your life, but your living situation and whatever family that you're trying to put together here. So you could reach out about it and try to get there. I don't know that you're equipped for it. I don't think I'm equipped for it, certainly in this case. But there's some patterns of stuff here that are alarming, but also kind of your own answer to your email that I don't. I mean, this isn't really a tough debate here. Yeah, I was going to say the only thing was unless he's like a superstar GC who also just can't handle his life. Like if unless he's like could give you the best deck and basement or whatever you're doing. So, so you're saying if you were good,

if you were good at framing or something, still had all the rest of the stuff. Yeah. Something great. And it's just like, um, like what's that Jamie Foxx movie? The guy was on the street,

but he was awesome at cello or something. Like if it was like that, the recruit, I don't remember. I don't think I, it never looked like I was going to see it, but the Ray, no, no, definitely not that. Definitely not that he was a violin guy it doesn't matter um i think i think unless unless there's something that he could really bring to the table which he

kind of just said in passing like yeah and he's like no construction help so yeah this is a no and i and honestly i think it's fine to say no i don't i don't think you you probably feel better about yourself you said no rather than ignored him. So I don't know. I think Kyle's right. Like, see if you can, you know, if there's some demo work that needs to be done, like give him some things to do. But is it is it would it be ridiculous to kind of reach out to his family and just be like, hey, like just kind of noticing things like what's going on? Just like at least try to figure out the source of the problem to maybe see if you could find a solution in the future.

Then, you know, just saying no or ignoring him. I mean, at least do a figure out the source of the problem to maybe see if you could find a solution in the future other than you know just saying no or ignoring him i mean at least do a little bit of something it doesn't mean that you have to take him in and have him live in your place for a couple months just just do a little investigating talk to some other people who you know that know him and just say what the hell can we figure out what the hell is going on so we can help this guy i mean i think you could do a little bit that doesn't include you know basically having this guy be your roommate for a while. Yeah, I think that's all fair. It is nice that you care this much.

I'm not trying to sound cold here. I have a friend that's sort of in and out of the picture every few years. And I hear from him, I don't know, every couple of years. And the phone calls are like, they're tough. You know, I had him saying he could tell by my breathing that my shoulder was dislocated on the phone. And I was, he was like, you know, are you working out? I was like, yeah. He's like, what's going on?

He's like, I could tell by your breathing, the pace of it. You know, and I was like, okay, man. I was like, good talking to you, you know, you know, you come, there comes a time in your life where you just go, you know, I don't, I don't have time for it. Yeah. Simple as that. I don't think you need to apologize to anyone for like having a life and being busy. But I also think that there, you know, there are a few little things you could do to just see what, see what the deal is. And if you can help, you can help. If you can't, then, you know, I think your conscience is clear. And some guys respect. No. Like, so, you know, some guys don't respect if you're like,

oh, let me see, I got to figure it out. And then they sort of are latching onto that little window that you're giving them the maybe because you really don't have the stones to say no, or you haven't said no, because you haven't gotten back to them. Like some guys respect. No, like, yeah, they might be like, Oh dude,

you suck. But then like, then you move on. It's, it's once you get wishy-washy about it and like, don't really put your foot down that maybe they'll kind of weasel their way into trying, even though,

you know, it's never going to happen. It could just make it way worse if you don't actually address it. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Apathy would be the worst situation there. Like if your friends don't even care enough to respond to you, if tough love is better than no love, I guess. Exactly. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, apathy would be the worst situation there. If your friends don't even care enough to respond to you. Tough love is better than no love,

I guess. Exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah. I know that doing these emails, these life advice emails, in a way you kind of want to cover every angle because I know that there's probably

a portion of the audience listening going, well, wait a minute. Clearly there's this, this, and this with this guy. Somebody needs to do this and be proactive about it. How will you feel about it? I'm already processing all of that stuff. I'm looking at it simply as how would you act if you just got married and you're trying to have a kid and you got a guy that's pretty unpredictable asking you to move in all of you would all of you would say no it's not you me and dupree like he's not awesome like you know i get it was dupree awesome i thought he was it's not a shock he was like skateboarding with the kids in the neighborhood i don't know i just

don't think it would be as fun-loving as that. True. True. Okay. Let's do another quick one. How to tell my friend I'm not going to live with him anymore. 23-59-160. He changed the names so that we don't have to, like many Midwesterners. I moved to Chicago after graduating from school last summer. Since then, I've been living in an apartment with one of my old fraternity brothers, Ben. He's a good roommate and we haven't had any big issues. Despite this, I won't be renewing our lease and I'm planning to live with another friend moving to Chicago named Matt. Ben never did anything wrong. I'm just better friends with Matt and would rather live with him. Ben and I have known each other since freshman year of college and I still want to be friends with him even if we aren't living together. How do I break the news to him without

ruining our friendship or making him think I don't like him thanks guys uh i would just tell ben hey i'm moving in with matt as soon as possible yeah that's it now maybe even find someone else to right that that kind of takes it the edge off you're like i think this guy will take my spot yeah i don't know about that part of it. I would have rather any situation where we had where they were like, hey, I got a sub letter. I'm like, who's this? I would rather lose the apartment and start over again. I don't need Todd moving his futon in and being like, hey, I have a better futon than what you have.

Like, yeah, but it's mine. Then I have to put it in storage. Yeah, but I have one. And it's better. The hinges are better. All right. So guys breaking up with other guy roommates. Yeah, I can understand it's a little delicate.

And you're right, Kyle, telling him as soon as possible so that it's not like that's where you can really fuck this up. As you wait until the last moment because you want to delay the confrontation. you can really fuck this up as you wait until the last moment because you want to delay the confrontation and by delaying the confrontation you put him in an impossible spot where he's like well if you knew this the whole time you should have already fucking told me so yes great job kyle tell him as soon as possible but i mean come on you want to live with matt matt sounds cooler um if a guy gets really mad at you for wanting to live with a different guy and then you break up his friends that's on the original roommate. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. I can't get mad. I'm getting along with Steve. Steve and I live

together and I'm like, hey, but I really want to live with Kyle. But Steve, I still want to be friends. This sounds a lot more like dating than it does living situation. If Steve is going to say we're not friends anymore anymore we can't talk because i moved in with kyle then all right steve see you later i don't think i should get mad about this though i mean yeah i was gonna say i don't even think you have to come up with any other reasons oh it's closer to work whatever i don't even think you need to do any of that i just think it's be like how do you want to do this? Do you want me to try to find someone? We can talk to the landlord or whatever. Cause moving does suck. Even though

you're moving in with your new buddy or whatever, it's still going to suck for you even. So for now that this guy has to, you know, who's probably been counting on staying another year. Cause honestly, even, even in this place that I, you know, I don't love, but love, but I would be counting on staying another year than having to pack up all my shit and pay some guys to help me move my stuff and whatever. So, I mean, it sucks no matter why you have to move, but I just think it'd be better for him, your friend that you're trying to maybe remain friends with,

it'd be better if he could take his best shot at moving rather than finding out when you decide that, you know, there's only two or three more weeks that we'll even have to worry about this because then I can move in with Brandon or wherever the fuck he is. Yeah, there's really no magic phrase. I don't know where Brandon lives.

Yeah. There's really no magic phrase or whatever that you could say that's going to make it better on the guy who you're leaving, you know? Like either he's going to accept it or he's not going to accept it. And you've already made your choice

as to which friend you're more interested in hanging out with so you know as kyle said just tell him early be honest and you know hopefully you guys can still hang out and have fun but if not like you made your choice so it is what it is so we wouldn't lie here no i don't think i would well we'll lie and say what like this guy's helped me with rent or something or what what are you saying because the lie would have give you a much better chance of preserving the friendship with the original roommate right but give me an example like what would you say i guess that you could the lie could be as long as it's not like about like a weird money situation maybe you could say the rent's better you could do that be like hey listen we found this place the rent's crazy and it's rent locked don't like, hey, listen, we found this place.

The rent's crazy and it's rent locked. Don't worry about it. But like, it's just better. Don't ask questions. It's just better. And honestly, I can get to work so much faster. I just, I got to do it, buddy. Maybe if you just do that and leave no room for... Yeah, but all that stuff like is pretty easily Google-able.

And he could, I mean, right. He could probably tell whether it's closer to your work situation or not. Maybe. It has to be true. The money then. The money. Be like,

this dude, it's unbelievable the money we got this thing for. Be like, I'm going to shovel the driveways and I'm going to get like 800 bucks off rent in the winter. So, you know,

I got to do it. Not the person, buddy. Yeah. I got to do it. I just got to bring the trash out and it's going to be like unbelievable savings. You wouldn't believe it.

All right. We'll hammer life advice a little harder a little bit later this week, but we're just packed with awesome stuff. Thursday's show is going to be incredible too. Good stuff all around. By the way, for Thursday, I've got

a bunch of GMs and front office people. I'm hoping to get up to, I don't know, maybe eight or nine teams to chime in on how they see the top of the NBA draft, but obviously some teams are a little less likely to share that stuff if they're going to end up with one of those picks. So that's the holdup because I was going to do it today,

but we're going to do it Thursday instead. So just trying to get more people in on that. Thanks Kyle and Steve. Please subscribe to the Riders Soul Podcast. We're on Spotify. Outro Music you