The Ryen Russillo Podcast - QB Josh McCown on Eagles vs. Seahawks. Plus, NFL Coaching Carousel | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

Russillo talks about the recent NFL head coach hires, including Ron Rivera to the Redskins, Mike McCarthy to the Cowboys, Joe Judge to the Giants, Matt Rhule to the Panthers. He also asks, "What will the Browns do?" and more (2:00). Then Ryen is joined by Eagles backup QB Josh McCown to discuss the wild-card playoff game vs. the Seahawks, his playoff debut, what's next for him, and more (27:25). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, what's up? It's Ryan with Ryan Rosillo Podcast. Today's episode of the show on the Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. I was in attendance for the Knicks at Lakers. Not a close game. That was very predictable. LeBron played. Played well. Anthony Davis fell down hard.

And it looked bad live. Like, there's guys that fall, and you're like, are you going to get up? And let's see. LeBron had that for a time in his career, but now I think as he's older, he's like, it's actually, it takes too much energy, you know, not getting up sooner. Like, let me just get up.

Marcus Smart is big on, like, if he gets bumped, I'm like, okay, we're going to be here a while. It's almost like an intermission in the game. But Bobby Portis looked like he, like watching it live, I thought Bobby Portis is flagrant that he got thrown out for. I'm like, oh, I don't know

if that'll be a flagrant. And we saw the replay and we're like, okay, that was actually kind of nasty. So there you go. I don't know what that was, unpredictable or not, but State Farm, we hope you're happy. Get a teammate who can help you navigate

the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today. Here's the plan. Probably a shorter pod. Josh McCown, playoff veteran. Josh McCown is going to join us. He was part of our backup quarterback series and reached out and said, hey, do you want to talk about the game a little bit?

So I'd like to get his perspective on getting out there, not expecting to get out there, how tough that was, how fun it was. Probably not fun. The fun meter was probably all over the place for him, and then the wets hit and all that kind of stuff. So there's a relationship there. I thought it would be a little interesting to do that. But I have an open, and today's open is about coaching hiring.

So who's been hired? Right now we have Matt Rule going to Carolina, which I first heard about a week and a half ago when I was down at the Peach Bowl. Being like, all right, Rule, Giants, kind of a fit there. And you're like, you know what? It seems like Carolina is more of a fit. And the thing that the Giants are dealing with right now,

it's not that the Giants... I always felt like, hey, how do the Giants go from great ownership to the ownership that you would want, the standard that other NFL organizations would hope to live up to? And now that's bad ownership? I don't really believe that, and I think it has way more to do with Gettleman. Giants have a Gettleman problem, not an ownership problem. That's why Matt Rule went to Carolina.

More on the Giants here in a second. Ron Rivera to the Redskins. I like the hire. It feels like a grown-up is in the building now. It really does, and I'm not necessarily knocking other Redskins head coaches, but Ron's been around a long time. He's been really successful. And you can point to the overall record. You can say, maybe they're a little bit outdated. Is this the best fit for Haskins? Obviously, a lot of the other coaches coming in, that's going to matter a lot to develop

a younger guy. I didn't love Haskins' rationale, as I alluded to on Monday's podcast when I was reading this interview where Ron Rivera was like, yeah, I spent an afternoon with Joe Gibbs. He said, Snyder's great. And you're like, oh, okay. So everybody else has been wrong for 20 years. Got it. Cause you guys had afternoon sippers. And then the Dwayne Haskins thing, like, Hey, that offense wasn't built for him. Yes, that's fair in the beginning. And then he moved the ball against Detroit. And that was also, I believe the selfie game with Haskins. I don't know if Haskins made any good or not, but here's the deal. If you were offered a job that was a really good job and paid you a lot, you would say stuff. You wouldn't go, hey, you know what? The commute kind of sucks. The stock

has been in the tank for like two years. I don't think there's any growth for this company whatsoever. No, you'd be like, okay, they're paying me a lot. It's a good company. And, you know, it's better than not having a job. So I'm out. Mike McCarthy in Dallas. It feels a bit like damaged goods, right? It's not going over as well. And that's the problem too. Like whenever you set big expectations, whenever you start sitting there on the message boards going, who can, I'm trying to think of one. I always went back to Minnesota, but I can't do that now because Minnesota really impressed me against Auburn and PJ Flex done a great job there. He's done a great job at two different programs,

even though to me he's the Russell Wilson of coaching interviews. So when I looked at – Minnesota used to have this thing, though, where you'd be like, what is going on? Van Pelt and I would be doing the show, and you'd go, who's on their list? It'd be like Dungy, Gruden, and Belichick. That seems a bit high. Dallas had that, right? It was Urban.

And I had heard Urban kind of wanted the job now I don't know if you know the Jerry Jones thing forever and that Garrett was there is because Jerry and Steven Jones knew that they could kind of push Jason around a little bit and that it was still the Jerry show and then if you hired Urban would it still be the Jerry show I don't know I don't I've heard all of these things I can't confirm any of the stuff because I don't even know how you go ahead and confirm that would jerry jones ever tell somebody you know what i actually like some of these guys that have less of a profile because that makes me the star although if anyone were going to confirm that it probably would be jerry jones so whether it was lincoln riley and i'd heard there was just

a massive ask that basically told you lincoln riley didn't really want the job the urban thing you know i'd heard whatever the redskins interest, it wasn't as close to his interest in the Cowboys. You know, you're hearing all sorts of names, big game hunting. Okay. I'd heard Witten was potentially even in play, like not great odds, but, but kick the tires on the idea. And then ends up being Mike McCarthy because Mike McCarthy's last two years in green Bay, including getting bounced out before the season was done. It feels a little bit like damaged goods. And then the one that has everybody up in arms is Joe Judge to the New York Giants. Now, there's a couple things here. I don't know if Joe Judge is going to be any good. You don't either. You don't. There are all sorts of coaching hires that make

all the sense in the world that don't work. And there are ones where you're like, you know, I ended up being a pretty good hire. I think that's just what the industry is, is that it's very hard. Like I spent that whole time in that video going through quarterbacks the last 20 years in first round selections going, you know, how do you really know how a guy is going to process stuff? And after people watch that video, it's got me more thinking about, is there a better way to do this?

Is there a better way? Like would you ask quarterbacks to forget arm strength, forget – I think pocket mobility is a big deal, but would you sit there and have them play memory while somebody's trying to tackle them? You know what I mean? How do you really figure out what's in a guy's head and how he's going to process all that stuff?

Because it's not just raw intelligence. It isn't just the wonder lick. It isn't just strength. It isn't just the ability to run. It isn't... All of these things that we thought were really important with quarterbacks forget stats now to winning programs, losing programs. Like, I don't know if any of that stuff really happens because anytime a quarterback is successful in the NFL who won a bunch of ton of games in college, they'll say,

well, you know, it wasn't that hard to figure out. Look how successful it was in college. Do you seriously want to go through the list of quarterbacks that won a lot in college that would never do anything in the NFL, I don't have that much time today. So as much as I may not know about quarterbacks for certain reasons and the people picking them may not know, I think it's the same thing with coaches. Like, you don't know until the guy gets in the building where it's like, oh my God, this guy doesn't like work well with others. Oh my God, this guy's way better as a coordinator. This guy can't be the leader. Those are really hard things to figure out until you're actually doing it. Everybody says the right thing in the interviews.

Everybody says, oh, you know, I work too hard. I'm too much of a perfectionist. I care too much. I am too supportive of my coworkers, right? We all know those gimmicks. We all know that it's actually kind of hard to bomb the interview although i've heard of it happening i remember one coach of like hey is that guy gonna get the job now he bombed the interview got hired two weeks later i was like what what happened there

so the joe judge thing and there's one thing that's definitely unfair again i'm not going to sit here and die on the joe judge hill because i don't know but when you say he's the wide receivers coach for a receiving core that was really bad with new england that's not being fair like you're just doing that to prove a point but you're doing a bad job at proving your point because the receivers were bad because Belichick was bad with the receivers I think it was arrogance to think hey I'm going to rely on Josh Gordon Antonio Brown I mean think about that sentence and Bel Belichick, of all people, to trade a second rounder for Mohamed Sanu, a guy that hates moving picks. Well, he's moved picks more recently,

and I think there's a part of it that's actually been smart where it's like, hey, I'll go get the guy that's already been really good and move the pick. But unless you know, and a second rounder for Sanu doesn't make any sense, but that was just the sheer desperation that they had. So is that on Joe Judge? No. And he's been the special teams guy and somebody that apparently belichick has allowed to have a voice of practices for a long time so maybe it works maybe it doesn't but the reason it's joe judge

in new york and not a bigger name not a matt rule or some of the other guys is because of gettleman because more and more when you dig around it is true that people don't like dealing with gettleman and that's why i think judge is there and not don't like dealing with Gettleman. And that's why I think judge is there and not a guy like Matt rule. And that leaves Cleveland, um, as somebody that, you know, is lucky enough to talk to people and, and ask him, Hey, you know, what do you, what do you hear about this? What's going on here? It took me a while to learn like hey just because somebody who has a front office job or as a coach or is connected to ownership just because this is like a really good source for information it doesn't mean it's worth repeating what they told you and when

cleveland says well you know the great thing about this is we have the first pick you know what other people call this they call it the fifth pick um to say that now that everybody else has picked their guys and i'm not saying that rule or rivera you know like i'm not saying like any of these guys were the number one choices for cleveland what i'm saying is that that is like some absolute positive thinking seminar stuff to go well the great thing about this now that every other head coaching vacancy has been filled we have the pick of the field and there's by the time this comes out i don't know i could be completely screwing myself up here but there's just a lot of people that seem to think it's stefanski first um but you know as chris long had pointed out on monday and he's pointed out numerous times

you'd love to see eric v enemy get that chance we're going to get to some of that stuff and um the lack of black head coaches in the nfl So now that we know what we have this year, except for the Cleveland part, let's look back at what we had last year. Last year, it was about quarterbacks. It was developing the quarterback by any means necessary. Now, not every single hire, but more than half the hires were directly related to the quarterback. And if you just think about that, hey, what's the most important position in sports? It's the quarterback. What's the hardest one to figure out? We've been over this.

It's the quarterback. What's the best way to invest in him, give him the resources? What can we do to make sure we've put everything in place to make sure this guy succeeds? Because if he succeeds, then it's worth the investment, especially when we're talking about top overall picks like a Baker Mayfield. Well, when you look back at Freddie Kitchens compared to Todd Haley and Baker Mayfield, what do we have? And again, it's Haley six games, eight games under Kitchens. I'm just going to run through it. Haley, 58% completion for Baker, 68% under Kitchens.

Haley, 250 yards in the air. Kitchens, 282. Touchdowns a game, one and a half under Haley, two and a half under Kitchens. Interceptions stayed the same. QB rating went from about 80 to 106 for Baker. Sacks per game went down three and a half per game to about half a sack a game. Yards per attempt jumped up two yards. Scoring didn't actually improve dramatically,

but as we pointed out on this podcast, middle of the season, when it wasn't going the Browns' way, you go, hey, let's go back and look at that schedule. They finished closing against a bunch of really bad football teams. But if you were the Browns and you saw that and Baker signs off on it and you think, well, wait a minute, like he wasn't very good with this guy. He was really good with this guy. Let's not break up that continuity, even though people that knew Kitchens

had told me, great guy, can't believe he's a head coach. And so now he's out. But that's what it was. What if I told you that there was a coach that was available last year that coached in northern Michigan, Central Michigan, and after one year at Ashland, coached with the Houston Texans, the Washington Redskins, Notre Dame,

the Atlanta Falcons, and was the offensive coordinator at the Rams and Titans and accomplished all of this before he was 40 years old? Would that be something that would interest you? Well, that's Matt LaFleur, and that's what the Packers did.

And LaFleur getting that Packers job again before he had turned 40 this past fall. That actually looked impressive as I was going through it. I hope you were impressed too, but that's who got the job. Adam Gase, you know what? I don't have anything for you. I don't know where they had him either. Cliff Kingsbury.

Okay, they scored at Texas Tech. He took a ton of heat because they didn't win at Tech. He got bounced from Lubbock, ends up at USC for about a day, and then he ends up being the head coach of the Arizona Cardinals, and everybody makes fun of it because Texas Tech didn't win any games. Well, you know what they didn't do? They didn't tackle. And Cliff Kingsbury was not hired to coach defense for Arizona.

He was coached to invest in, well, to increase their investment in Kyler Murray. Okay? It was pretty simple. And if you're Kingsbury and you've coached Case Keenum, Manziel, Baker, which, again, he transferred out, Davis Webb turns into a third rounder in Mahomes, the best quarterback in the NFL, then you could see a team going, you know what? We want to do that thing. Like there's a version of this. The math wasn't going to match up that every QB guru head coaching hire was going to work because some of them are just going to fail because that's what was going to happen.

But it makes sense that this was the hot thing. Zach Taylor, his highest position in the NFL was an interim OC with the Dolphins in 2015. So that was a big jump for him, Cincinnati. Cincinnati was not a good team. Maybe they were trying to salvage Andy Dalton. They ended up benching Andy Dalton. They probably shouldn't have benched Andy Dalton. And that team's kind of a mess, but I don't know that it's all on Zach Taylor.

Bruce Arians, he had a camp, a football camp with Jameis Winston when he was 12. Vic Fangio, that was the Denver Broncos zag when everybody else was going offense. We said, you know what? We here in Denver, we're going to go with a guy who's been coaching defense for 20 years and coaching it well. And Brian Flores, and I was going through some of the stuff this morning on the Brian Flores hire, and that in some circles got the worst grade of any of the hires. One place gave him a C-.

He had been with new england since 2004 he was basically the defensive coordinator bill has this weird thing about labels and giving it out he's like a dude who works the door to club or he's dating girls and they're like am i your girlfriend and he's like you know i'm not really into labels that's what belichick does with his assistants but flora's out of that entire group i I'd argue, you know, if you wanted to do, Hey, it's hard to give coach of the year. The guy doesn't win a ton of games, but I think the job he did was as good as anybody, despite people being like, well, what's up with this guy?

So that's what we had last year. You know what it kind of reminded me of is different trends, you know, college basketball right now it's hiring the former player, the guy who was the face of the program for the longest time, whether it's Juwan Howard in Michigan, Patrick Ewing at Georgetown, St. John's tried it with Chris Mullen, Penny Hardaway at Memphis. That's the thing, much like we had in college football where it was coach and waiting until all of a sudden coach and waiting was like,

well, wait a minute, if this guy's so good to inherit a big program, somebody else is going to hire him ahead of time anyway. And then people were like, you know what, maybe this whole thing's kind of stupid. Major League Baseball, their hiring practices right now are, do you not want to make any money to be with a baseball team for about eight months every single day? Now you can say, Ryan, a million dollars is a lot of money. And I don't know, not when you're a professional baseball manager and you've already been a professional player. Those guys, that story needs to be talked about more and more. Major League Baseball managers make nothing. Their

scale compared to where it used to be is dropping dramatically and that's what they're doing younger former player isn't necessarily worried about getting that five million dollar a year salary like a lot of managers used to get in the past the nba had that thing years and years ago where it was let's go get some college guys remember tim floyd lon kruger and then it went so bad that people went, you know what? Let's never hire any of these college basketball coaches again. And there's Bulls fans being like, don't leave out Fred Hoiberg either. So that kind of changed.

So what we had last year, and it feels like it's pivoted a bit from that, but I say, hey, look, let's give it more than a couple years to see if everybody after one year, after the 2018 season, has moved on from picking the head coach that is the quote quarterback guru. It reminded me a little bit after nine 11, and this is a true story. I had a bunch of friends that right after I graduated college in 97. So, um, it was scary. It was scary moment when you have friends that are down there and you're trying to call it and trying to check in. But after that, and people wrote about this and my buddies had told me about it and that women started like seeking out dating firemen. I'm serious. Like you can go back and

look at it. Like I went back and looked it up again. I was like, that's right. Like it became kind of a thing. Now I don't know that it was a thing that all of a sudden all my friends were going to bars in New York city and they would be at a table and then there would be another table of girls with like seven different guys from the same firehouse. No, but like that became like a way to appreciate what they did, their sacrifice. And it was kind of like a cool thing to do. And then it wasn't, you know, and if anybody listening, if you're a younger guy knowing what it's like to go out in New York City, you want to talk about man sharpening man, iron sharpening iron, go out, especially in the late 90s, early 2000s, in your pleated chinos, trying to just struggle

being like, hey, yeah, no, no, what's going on? Oh, really? You're dating a Met? Okay, cool. Yeah, no doubt. Yeah, we're going to go listen to some Dave Matthews at my place. Yeah, we're in the Lower East, but it's a really up and coming spot. You should check it out. So when I had heard about that story about the fireman thing, I went, wow, that is so, that is so us. That is so this country that it would just be a thing where it's like, you know what, let's going to show, show some of these firemen our appreciation. I'm going to find one. I want to find a commoner. You know, I want to, I I want to date that guy now and show how real I am. And then you're like, okay, this is over. I don't want to do this anymore. And I don't know if that's what's going to happen with some of these head coaches in the NFL. But what I do know is they're probably

going to be fired, is that they're all going to be fired at some point. And it won't be because you only hired the QB guys or you try to do something different. It's because these guys just get fired and that's the way it works. And what do we want when you look at this new group of hires? What do you want if you're the Dallas Cowboys to quote Robert California? We want sex, right? Everything is sex. Everything has to be the sexy pick. When you look at a woman, especially if you're younger, you don't ever look at a woman and say, I bet she's a smart spender. You know what?

Hey, you see that one over there? Yeah, yeah, the brunette. I bet no matter what, she will let me pursue my dreams. You know? Let me make this one more regional. You're at the fair. Although if you're at a fair,

then maybe the answer to this question is always yes um you're you're at a pool party and you see a girl and she looks back at you and you're thinking and you go if i turn 40 and put a lift kit in my truck will she get pissed off at me no you don't you don't do any of those things okay and those might be the questions you should ask yourself when you look at a woman you go you know how great she is around kids. She's going to be a great mom. You know who I really love. I love her family. They're stable. You know what? I think she's going to be supportive even when I don't deserve support. No, you look at the thing that turns your head and no matter what hire we're talking about, every fan base deep down. Now, some of you are going to listen to what I just said and say, Hey, you're shallow. I don't think that way. Hey, congrats.

Congrats on swimming in the deep end, okay? I'm swimming in the reality end. And my side of the pool tells me that every single fan base, college or pro, you want the sexy thing. You want the thing that makes other college fan bases or other NFL fan bases turn their head and say, damn it, how did they get him? And much like a guy with a girl that looks a little out of his league and you've done this too, you're like, oh, I heard he has tons of money. And then the other guy chimes in and says,

yeah, and it's not even his, it's his dad's. You're sitting there saying in college, oh, it's a booster. And that's why Mike McCarthy, especially for a Dallas franchise that always seems to have the pretty thing on its arm, except for his coaches, that's why the Mike McCarthy, especially for a Dallas franchise that always seems to have the pretty thing on its arm, except for its coaches. That's why the Mike McCarthy thing isn't going over as well. Except Mike McCarthy, somebody here in 13 years with the Green Bay Packers, made the playoffs nine times, including nine times, eight years in a row. And he's got a ring, but he's really thought of collectively as the guy that wasted Aaron Rodgers. I don't know if that's true or not, but I know that you hear that announcement if you're the Cowboys and it doesn't make you turn

your head. Now let's talk about the more serious part of this, and that is the lack of head coaches that are black in the NFL. We have three now, and I don't know what's going to happen with the Cleveland Browns by the time this comes out. Maybe there'll be something going there, but it doesn't sound like that's the direction that they're leading in. I don't think Roger Goodell likes this, and I know no one likes Roger Goodell anymore, but I can't imagine that Roger Goodell is like, this is great. I'm getting crushed in all these television shows because the number of black head coaches went from seven, by the way, before 2018 to now three, five coaches at the end of 2018 and losing their job. and now three, five coaches at the end of 2018 end up losing their job. Now, like I've said, I've never been, I never will be accused of being the most woke guy

when it comes to the opinionist in sports, and I'm actually okay with that. I don't think the Atlantic's going to offer me a feature where I come out with an article that says, do I tip too well because of my white guilt, my column? That's not going to happen, but this is a problem. And even if you're a white guy that goes, oh, we're talking about race again, we're doing this again, I think you have to educate. But this is a problem. And even if you're a white guy that goes, oh,

we're talking about race again, we're doing this again. I think you have to educate yourself on some of this stuff because there's so much stuff in sports or sometimes in film or television and all these different things where I'm like, is that really what's happening there? Is that what's really going on? Because I do believe that there are people in social media that make a living off of selling you that the world is even worse than it actually is. That's selling you every day that today is going to be the worst day, that everything is stacked against you. And yes, there are biases. And yes, there are things that are happening in this country that are embarrassing, that are terrible, that are happening in 2020. Read about the lack of funding,

different schools in certain geographical areas. And I don't need to tell you where they are because you can figure it out if you want to read about it. Some of the sentencing practices that we have, some of the voting registration stuff where it's access to actually vote like these things are happening and it's hard to deny that anything has anything to do with it other than race and i know you don't like hearing that i didn't like reading about some of it but then you go you know what this is real and it's happening but when it happens in sports when it's a day on espn's campus when it's the fantasy draft and they have a bunch of people bidding on players and it turns into odell beckham jr's bid on and then it becomes this thing that's a thing on ESPN's campus when it's the fantasy draft and they have a bunch of people bidding on players and it turns into Odell Beckham Jr.'s bid on and then it becomes this thing that's a

thing on the day about racism in America. And I'm like, you know what? Enough of this. I don't need to hear this right now. But if I'm black and I'm looking at this or I'm one of the players of a league that is 70% black, like the NFL is, I'm going, why is this going in the wrong direction? What is actually happening? Now, I'm not a marketing guy who's going to sit here and tell you, hey, is there a way to maybe pitch a friendlier version of racism? That's not what I'm doing. What I'm telling you is that I think what owners are, are white. This is not profound. You've heard this before. The GMs are almost all white. And there's an inherent bias that happens with people where they just seem to be more comfortable with people that are just like them. And is it rooted in 200 years of racism? I don't know the answer to that. I don't know what

the science is behind that. I just know that it needs to be fixed because I don't like whether it's former black players, black guys that I work with that are friends of mine that talk about it and we'll discuss it and we'll have disagreements and we'll say some different things. But if you're a black guy going, okay, so what is happening here? Like guys just aren't getting hired because they are black. Well, what's the counter? There's three head coaches, three. And I know people are like, hey, what about Ron Rivera? Okay, cool. Four, four people of color, three black. Now, when I hear the Rooney rule isn't working, okay, it doesn't feel like it's working right now, but was it working two years ago when you had seven coaches? Is this just the cycle of coaches where things are happening and this is just a bad cycle of it?

And I think some people are listening to this saying, well, who cares? Best man for the job. Best man for the job. for the job best man for the job the problem is is that if no one is black making the decision from ownership to the front office or even some of the quarterback stuff which i did read up on and go you know what a lot of the quarterback coaches although there are some black quarterback coaches that are kind of the quarterback guru thing but if it ends up being the quarterbacks that are the priority then that means it might be somebody who played quarterback i mean all the stuff can be connected back to like high school sports and going okay our best athletes

let's put them at receiver let's put them them at corner. And we're going to have the white kid play the quarterback. Like some of this stuff has really happened. I think it's obviously gotten better when at one point the top five quarterbacks in QBR were all black. Okay. So maybe we're years away from this finally feeling like a number that everybody is okay with, or let's just say that black people are okay with black players are okay with but as much as i try to resist some of the stuff that i go i don't really know if that's what's happening there but i see what you did with headline it's hard to counter that three is a bad number three is a bad number but i don't think roger goodell likes that number i also think nepotism plays into this

and i'm not talking about nepotism from the ownership standpoint because if i owned a billion dollar franchise or i owned a franchise that was worth two but i paid a billion and leveraged all sorts of assets and put together the pool of money and minority partners and i did all these different things and then it's like okay i'm 70 and i'm gonna die and yet i want to keep this team with my family like that to me is not nasty nepotism that's reality i don't want to give this to somebody else but then when when that cycle continues, then that obviously shuts out more people of color getting a chance at owning teams or running these teams. Nepotism can be nasty on staffs because you'll have a coach, a legendary coach, and then all of a sudden he's got a son or he's got a nephew and there's all these people. And that just closes out other

opportunities. The reason why nepotism is bad is it isn't so much because the person who gets the opportunity isn't worthy of getting the opportunity. What happens with nepotism is that the son or the daughter of somebody else, that guy who's been with an organization for a long time, he'll say, hey, you know what? You let that guy hire his son. You let that guy hire his daughter. I want to be able to do that. I've been here just as long. So what you do as an organization once you allow this is you open the door to everybody else to ask for the same kinds of favors. And I think that limits numbers. I've also talked with players that are recently retired when I worked at ESPN.

I'd be like, hey, do you ever want to coach? The guy would be like, you know how much money I have in the bank? I don't ever want to do that shit. Like, okay. like okay so yes there are a bunch of different answers that can contradict each other to why this is happening but i think the first thing you have to do if you're a guy listen to this if you're a white guy you're like me and as i've learned that you know what people that aren't white don't really love hearing from white people telling them you know what that's wrong you're wrong about that one like that's not something that usually goes over that well. I've learned that. Like, hey, you know

what I want to do? I'm going to do another segment telling people that are minorities that, hey, yeah, you're wrong about that. Even though there have been times where, look, I've obviously felt that way. But when it comes to this, when it comes to the NFL, whether it's the Rooney Rule not working, there could be something coming. And I'm not like, this isn't based on anything, but I would actually be okay with something that would be in place that would feel unfair to other people. I would be okay with maybe a team being told, Hey, here's the new deal in the NFL, in your cycling of your higher cycling. If you go through four hires, you know, or three hires or whatever, like one out of your four hires you go through four hires you know or three hires or whatever like

one out of your four hires has to be a black head coach okay you have you have to do something to change this there are plenty of things that i read about that i push back on but this one i don't even want to why would why would you want to push back on that i do think it's a real problem all right let's talk with Josh McCown. We had him on before we did the backup QB and he was the backup that ended up being the guy in the game, unfortunately for Eagles fans. And I know for Josh, a loss in that game against the Seahawks, but we're talking with Josh McCown now. So I don't really know where I want to start. So I'll just go for it. There's no way you like like how do you prep yourself for that day do you do you do that thing and we always hear about backups you're

like hey you're gonna get ready every single week pretend you're gonna get out there what was your routine leading up to a playoff game at home oh man well consider it was my second playoff game ever there was like my routine was still I'm still still working on my routine. But, you know, I think you do try to prepare as best you can. Obviously, the week and the focus is on Carson and his preparation and getting him ready to go and doing everything you can to help him be ready. And in turn, that kind of gets yourself ready because you're talking ball, you're talking the game plan and whatnot. But, you know, in a perfect world and ideally,

and when you get into the playoffs, you never plan on playing. You know, you just, you know, Carson stays healthy and you go with him. But once your number's called, it's just a mind shift. And it's just the focus more than anything of just, okay, I got to go do my job and get myself ready to play. And, I mean, you just do it as best you can but there's no there's no secret formula i mean it's just it's because it's a hard thing you're not getting reps you know there's so many throws that you don't get throughout the week that are detailed within

the game plan so it's drawn on you know for myself just drawn on you know personal history of different plays and stuff to kind of help you execute. And you go out there and do the best you can. Okay, so Wentz went out on the hit by Clowney. What did you think of the hit? Man, I've watched it from a few angles now, you know, seeing it on the All-22. And I just, I never want to assume anybody has ill will. You know what I mean?

I just, I don't operate that way. So I hope, you know, he's just trying to play the game fast and at a high level. That said, like when you watch it, especially when you watch the end zone copy, you know, when a 6'8 dude or 6'7, however tall he is, you know, when his helmet is that low to the ground, it's hard because it feels like he leads with his helmet.

And I think more than anything, not his intent as being dirty, but just that we continue to clean the game up. And the emphasis that they've told us is that we're trying to take those hits out of the game. You know what I mean? That's been the focus. And so it seems as though if you put this much emphasis on it, when I look at that one, It seems as though if you put this much emphasis on it, when I look at that one, both in high speed and in slow motion, it seems like that one shouldn't have been that hard to miss. Again, the refs have a tough job, and I commend them for their work. But in my opinion, it just looked like there could have been something called there, and it was a tough one.

And obviously, I hate to lose a teammate in that manner, too. And I think we'll continue to learn and protect our game and make it better and i think those are the ones that we got to look at and see if we can get get uh get better at calling and eliminate that was a really nice answer josh but i got to imagine that the reaction on the sideline was a little different um so can you take me through the timeline of take me through the timeline of the third and 10 he gets hit and then trying to figure out what the hell's going on there now into the next series yeah i mean you're sitting there and and i'll watch them get up and could tell you know it's

kind of you know slow to get up and whatnot and and then you get to the sideline you start looking at the surfaces and seeing the pictures of the previous series and trying to process all that and i could just tell in the processing of that that he wasn't uh you know that he didn't feel right you know and um and you know trainers came over and whatnot and started talking with him and you know he expressed to me like man something's wrong and and uh and so you know i'll say this that part of our game that we're trying to get better at as far as the safety of the player and players uh you know identifying things and and acknowledging that whereas i think in the past you know people kind of try to hide things or whatever i think it was healthy for carson to go man you know something's wrong and and the

training staff our training staff did a good job of being on top of it. So that's encouraging. But it's a whirlwind because you're shifting from this guy that I've been – we've invested so much time the whole season in trying to help play at a high level, runs the table down the stretch, and finally healthy for the playoffs that he's been chasing for the last few years. And then now you feel bad for him, and then it's like this mental pivot of just like these emotions with him.

And now, okay, I got to focus and play and try to lead the team and help us win the football game. So it's individually for me, it's a flurry of emotions. And as a team, too, you're shifting from this type of game plan for Carson to now having to work with me and all those things. So it was definitely hectic there for, you know, 15 minutes or so. So he comes off and what is, what like is Peterson the first guy to talk to you? Do you talk to Wentz?

Like what happens there? No. Yeah. Yeah. He comes off and, and we just go to the, we go to the, to the bench and start looking like we always do, like yeah he comes off and and we just go to the we go to the to the bench and start looking like we always do like looking at the pictures and stuff and i could you know i could just tell you know kind of talking with him and and obviously he he uh like i said he expressed like man you know i'm hurting you know just kind of uh stay ready you know just

kind of a lot of times, especially some starters I've played with in the past, and even my own self in a starting capacity, if you feel like something's up or whatever, it's kind of like a courtesy to the backup to always kind of give them an amen, stay ready.

You kind of start to feel or know. It was one of those where I could just tell, hey, listen, I'm kind of hurting here and something's up and stay ready and kind of gave me those those types of words so i was i understood something was up you know and uh and then they took him back to the tent and then that process starts and then you don't know what's going to come of that but obviously he's not going back on the field until he gets out of the tent. So then, yes, I go talk with Doug, kind of discuss, like, all right, man, we're about to go. Does Doug say, like, hey, what do you like? I imagine you're going over some of the play call, like, going, hey, what do you like here?

Yeah, oh, for sure. And I think as best you can as a backup, you know, because he has a flow as a play caller that you're just like, yeah, I'm good with everything. Just call it, you know. And he kind of has a flavor just from talking ball with me throughout the season. And he kind of gets an idea of what I like. And there's enough on the plan that we can kind of get to some of those things. But but it's obviously hard. It's hard for because, you know, there's a skill set that Carson has that works with the game plan and, you know, what we're trying to do. And so it's hard to kind of pivot and be able to do that as a play caller. And so, you know, I went over, talked to Doug for a little bit, talked to the offensive line for a little bit, just kind of making sure we're clear on some calls and things like that.

And then, you know, you get ready to go. But Doug did a good job of trying to, you know, especially initially, if you go back and watch the game, like starting kind of easing me into it by calling run plays and different things, and so I appreciated that, and that was, you know, that's typically

a good way to get a backup going is just to kind of let him settle in and let it, you know, let my eyes adjust to the defense. You know, you're watching from the sideline, but just from being behind center, let your eyes kind of adjust to defense, get a feel for it, and then go. How nervous were you?

Not at all, bro. It's so weird. Wow. Just, yeah, like, you know, I think more than anything, just trying to train yourself, you know, as a backup is just, it's run to the fight, you know, I think more than anything, just trying to train yourself, you know, as a backup is just run to the fight, you know. Just you can't in that moment, you can't let the emotions take you.

Like I said, I was going from like this kid that, you know, invested a lot of time in and wanted to see play well, and now he's hurting. That's a bummer. And now the team needs you. And it's like this shift. And so I don't know if there's time to let that sink in. And I probably feel much more nervous when I'm starting a game

and leading up to the game, the 24 hours leading up to the game, than I do in a situation like that. Because it's just like, you know, kind of like fight or flight. Like you just react and you go. And so it was just like, all right, boom, let's go. Let's go play. And so I felt a really good piece about everything and and um and like i said a credit to doug and the guys just helping me settle in as well did anybody talk to you on the field from the seahawks did anybody try to heckle you yeah it was it was funny i had a couple runs towards their sideline and in different times it

scrambled or whatever and you hear you better get down on man and stuff like that so um so it was fun you know like those guys like to compete and and obviously the old jokes uh i'm a fairly good target for that right now so um and moving forward so so um so yeah it was fun, though. It's fun listening to them. They made me laugh, for sure. Those things kind of helped to calm me down, too, because it reminds you you can go out there and just have fun. Yeah, right. You were scrambling out there a little bit.

I don't know if everybody were educated in your Pick Up Hoops videos, but I don't know if a couple guys were surprised. Wait a minute. This guy can still move around a little bit. A little bit. You know, I don't know. It's one of those things where you feel so much faster until you see it on tape or on film and you're like, Holy cow, my flow.

So, so yeah, I mean, I think, and two, it's like you feel faster until a big 300 pound dude chases you down and you're like, man, that's not very good. But it was, you know, it was fun. Still tried to move around a little bit as best I could to give us a chance. But certainly not, you know, maybe not what it used to be. So you're trailing the whole game, but it's feeling like one of these games you're going, are the Eagles going to find a way to pull this thing off?

As you get a little bit more comfortable, did it feel like you were more comfortable? Because obviously the production wasn't there, but what was going on in the course of that second half when you're going, all right, we know we're close, we need this play, and we know the injuries that this team has had. This isn't an ideal situation for a backup to come into, but how are you trying to navigate through trying to figure out anything

that could work for you guys? Yeah, I think that was the key. We're like, man, we're moving the football. In between the 20s, in between really the 10s, we were getting up and down the field. It was just not punching it in. And so i think that was where the frustration but also the confidence was coming from was like man we're

moving the football this thing will just it'll pop at some point and um and just you know some misthrows here and there down you know especially in the red zone that that i wish i could have made uh you know particularly the fourth down one there to Sanders where it was, you know, a little low for him and he was moving away. I knew that could have been a big play. I gave him a better throw. And so, you know, it was just, but I don't think the belief, until the clock hit zero, the belief never wavered.

Like it was really cool to see and really the whole year with our team, like dudes would get hurt and we'd lose another guy and everybody just we'll be all right next man up and keep going so and thankfully we were playing in the NFC East so um so uh we were able to get in but yeah it was it was just that you know just almost almost had it done but just couldn't quite get over the hump you mentioned the pass to sanders how much is that fourth and seven going to bother you not being able to get the ball out oh dude it sucks man like those things those are those are hard hard uh hard things like especially the last one i was when i moved up yeah like you're saying and and you move up to throw you know and at that point you know just kind of where my hamstring was, it was just kind of like I just didn't have any juice to kind of get up and escape

and get that ball off. And in that situation, you know, as a quarterback, obviously you don't want to go down with the ball in your hands. But I was trying to – I mean, they had the route covered pretty well, and I was just trying to give it to a guy where I felt like, you know, find a guy that I could, you know, at least give a 50-50 ball to or something where he would have a chance to come down with it and uh when I moved to by time just just uh like I said it just wasn't a lot of juice there to to create separation enough to to get the throw off but um

but it's you know those things that yeah it bothers you and it's one of those things that doesn't that never yeah it never goes away like it always you. It's one of those things that never goes away. It's always like in those weird moments, you'll think about it and you're like, ah. But it's one play in a long game, and it's part of competing. And the disappointment that comes with it. And certainly feel that on on that play but um

but still yeah because i'm on the couch like i'm on the couch josh going oh man and i'm like you know and that's only because we've talked a few times you know i'm like get the ball out get the ball get the ball i can't yeah i i can't fathom what it's like for you to watch that film were you watching the film with the guys? No, no, we came in, you know, like, last game was kind of like, you don't watch it with each other anymore. Like, everybody kind of, you do your exit stuff and you go on. But I had to, like, see it.

And, you know, like, it's funny as a quarterback, when you go back and watch film, it's always like, you want to look back and go, was I seeing it? Like what i saw you know i mean like or whatever but like sometimes you'll see things and then on film you're like oh did that dude was open and and so so you know i kind of felt good about what you know how i was processing things and seeing things and and it was like i saw it you know i looked at it and, and a lot of guys covered on it. They did a good job of kind of matching, you know, to the routes. But, again, you know, like if I was coaching young quarterbacks, I'd say find a way to get that ball out. And that's why I tell myself, you know, I sit there and get frustrated.

I'm like, you got to find a way to get that ball off and at least give us a chance. And so that stuff's frustrating and as a competitor very very frustrating uh but um but again it's it's you know it's part of the game man and it's you have those moments you know the longer you compete the more moments opportunities you have to win lose and you know walk away frustrated and certainly one of those times the hamstring that was certainly one of those times. The hamstring, that was just one of those, oh my God, I'm old things, huh? Because I saw it and I'm like, oh, he's grabbing the back of his ass here.

And it didn't really, it was just sort of a step, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of those where you move and you're like whoa whoa um it like this is 40 um but but uh but yeah so and it just kind of just kept you know getting worse as the game went on you know there's nothing you know you look over the sideline that's like there's not anybody else you know so we're rolling here and and uh and you know it is what it is you know we'll sort it out in the coming months but um but but uh but yeah it was it was one of those weird moments certainly where i was like i never i never dealt with that like where you throw a ball or twist and turn and

and nobody touches you and and there's something that comes up. And, uh, so, um, so it's, it's, uh, I definitely, you know, I'm needed some load management at that time, I guess, but yeah, but you got some time. Unfortunate. I got two more for you. Then I'll let you go. I imagine a lot of the time you're just trying to figure out what's going to work here. So did you get a chance to watch Russell Wilson at all? Um,

I know you've watched film of him but you know the one thing i really like about him and chris and i were talking about this on monday is just that you know i think there's some quarterbacks that they have the lead and and you just know they're going to kind of shut down mentally and granted it's it's it's met cap one-on-one with the way the coverage was so it's not the most dangerous throw but what do you take from him from just, you know, you play this position, you,

I'm sure you're peeking over at times, but just the level of how impressed you are with him as a quarterback. Yeah, that was like one of the plays I did get to see. And I think, you know, the main thing that Russ has done, I think those are the questions when he came out

and the comparisons of being a shorter guy and all those things. Oh, can he play from the pocket? Can he do it? And I think that's what he's done so well is his game has continued to evolve. And he can play from the pocket. He can make plays with his feet.

And more than anything, he competes at such a high level all the time and the belief that Pete fosters within that program and just the way that they go about things is second to none and they stay on the gas, to your point. They didn't just sit on the ball

and go, we're going to run it three times and kick it back. They were aggressive and that was impressive and it was an impressive play call and an and, uh, and that was impressive. And it was a, an impressive play call and impressive throw by Russ. And, uh, I think it speaks to,

you know, how they, how they go about things day to day and how he competes. And, and he's certainly fun to watch. And it's been cool to see his career from the start till now and how he's evolved. 40 this year.

Um, you know, it was funny watching some of the TV shows after the fact, and they were talking about the game and like, you know, this guy was, he was retired. And then another guy's like, he was working with us. The guy's like, Oh, that's right. I forgot. I forgot he was supposed to be an ESPN analyst this year. What are you going to do?

I don't know, man. It is, you know, we'll see, you know, it's kind of resetting up, you know we'll see you know it's kind of resetting it you know again and kind of replaying

last offseason just going to talk with the family and see see what the best thing moving forward

is certainly you know enjoyed my time as an analyst learned a lot doing that

that brief time but you know we'll see. I don't know. A lot of time to make some decisions and see what's next. Certainly want to stay around the game and be involved in some capacity. And, you know, don't know what that will be yet,

but looking forward to figuring that out. Hey, before we say goodbye, what did you think of the social media criticism, especially, you know, like guys that played, people that cover the game, you know, crushing Wentz about the injury stuff? Man, I think it's unfair. Like, I get trying to look at patterns and saying, like, a guy misses time, so he's quote-unquote injury-prone. But, like, look at the injuries and take them on a case-by-case.

And if a guy is missing a bunch of time because he continues to get, you know, joints and different things banged up, but to say after a guy sustained a head injury that he falls in that category I think think is, is really unfair because it's, it's totally separate. And, and really for anybody that's any time playing this game, especially at the highest level to, to kind of make that attack or make that observation, I think is, is, is it's crap. I think it's, it's trying to, you know, trying to make more out of it than there really is, because because it's like the head stuff is a totally different animal.

And and then then being able to say somebody's injury prone because they they have a knee or back or whatever happens to you. So that was unfair. And I think, you know, take a bigger look at the process in general and at the injury history in general before you make opinions that way. Hey, Josh, I really appreciate the time. I know that it didn't end the way you wanted it, not the way Eagles fans wanted it to go. That goes without saying. But I just think there's always been something about you

and the way you carry yourself and going go. That goes without saying, but I just think there's always been something about you and the way you carry yourself and going out there that maybe neutral fans are rooting for you to try to find a way to get it done. Good luck with everything. Like I said, if you come back and play, people will be happy, and I'm sure ESPN will take you back. Enjoy the time away from it, all right? I appreciate it, man. Enjoy talking.

We hopefully are taping a little National Championship preview, but we don't know that yet, guest-wise. But we'll have another one ready to go Friday. Chris and I will be live, it looks like, from New Orleans on Monday. That's going to be in a hotel room, so we're not inviting anybody to that one. We're not doing a show or anything like that from a location. We're just going to tape it there.

And then I think there's a chance to do kind of a Tuesday recap, depending, obviously, on how the game goes. So that's the plan. So please subscribe, rate and review. And I can't think enough going back and looking at the years and download numbers. This podcast is absolutely crushing it. And I'm really, really happy that, you know, within a few months, this podcast is the number three sports podcast behind Bill and the and, uh, the PMT

guys who are friends as well. So, um, there you go. There you go. Just a few months were able to do that. So really, really proud. So thanks for a great 2019 and we'll keep it running here in 2020. Thank you. you