The Ryen Russillo Podcast - QB Overreactions and Todd McShay on CFB | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

Russillo discusses media reactions to rookie QBs' NFL debuts (2:25) before talking with ESPN's Todd McShay about new ways to gauge how a college QB's skills will translate to the NFL, 2020 first-round prospects, Stanford's offensive line issues, Jim Harbaugh's rocky season, Texas vs. Oklahoma, Nick Saban stories, and more (14:55). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

what's going on we have todd mcshay today on the rossillo podcast at the ringer and because mcshay's here well because anybody who stops by i'll let everybody know that we are brought to you by belvedere and all you guys ding me about Belvedere and tweeting about it, keep it coming because it makes me look good in front of those swell people from Belvedere. All right. Produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries, Belvedere Vodka is the world's finest all natural vodka. Part of a 600 year Polish vodka making tradition, Belvedere is made with 100% Polska rye, pure water and no additives. I tell you what, if you want to send us a video of you rehearsing that

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Remember to always drink responsibly. But yeah, if you're doing those videos, one t-shirt. Not everybody. Not everybody gets a t-shirt because we don't even have them yet and I'm bad at mailing. I still owe some people some stuff from, I don't know, I think like two years ago. But you know what? I usually get it done no matter what. Also, were you sitting around the other day going, you know what I want to do? I want to take my game to the next level. I don't know how.

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dave is really taking it to the next level like yeah i don't know what it is but it just feels different go hazelnutty and try the new em&M's Hazelnut Spread Chocolate Candies today. I want to talk about quarterbacks. Oh, no way, Rosillo. You want to talk about quarterbacks? Yeah, I do. I always want to talk about quarterbacks. I find it fascinating, but I think you find it fascinating too

because every time there's a list, who would you want now? Who's the best? Who's the best in five years? How many guys are going to lose their jobs? How many people could be on another team? Landing spots, where could all these guys go? What's the market for some of the guys that teams could be moving on from? It's always interesting. That was always one of my top rules whenever we were doing radio

show was that, how can we find a way to talk about the quarterbacks? Here's the thing. I don't know anything about these guys anymore. Now, is that a little dramatic? Yes. And you're going, well, wait a minute. What do I want to listen to your football takes if you don't know anything about quarterbacks? I'm just the one that's admitting it because I don't think you know either. Now, I do know this as somebody who's worked in this business a long time that most of the guys that you watch on TV or listen to on the radio don't watch a ton of games. They don't watch nearly as many as they say they do. And when they talk about draft picks and quarterbacks, there's a really good chance 90% of the people talking and having opinions on the quarterbacks

don't ever watch them. And I'm not talking about Todd McShay or Mel Kiper or guys that are draft types. I know those guys watch them, and I know some people are super into college football. But here's what I'm going to tell you is that your radio talk show host or your late-night TV guy or your debate desk guy, that guy's not sitting around on a Saturday at noon Eastern or 9 a.m. Western time zone. That'd be Pacific now that I'm out here at PT. He's not watching Duke kick off and Daniel Jones at 9 a.m. on Saturday. He just isn't. Okay. There's a few guys that are really into gambling that are doing it. They're going to tell you they watched him after the fact, but I know that they didn't

because I've worked with all of these guys. And I remember I got into trouble once because there was one guy at ESPN that said something so ridiculous one time where he said he'd seen every one of Chris Paul's games, including his college games at Wake. And then he was about to intro his Chris Paul take. And I said, well, that's just not true. I brought it up on the air. I was scolded. And I go, well, you know, this is, it's just such a ridiculous thing to say that you've watched every single Chris Paul game and he's been in the NBA for like seven or eight years by the time the guy had said it. And his producer was super condescending and, and was really nasty about it. And then like a couple of months later, he realized, you know, I really shouldn't have talked to you that way. I was like, yeah, you shouldn't have because I was right. But that was always my point is that I tried to, even though it's cool to say, Hey, I've watched everything. I've watched everything. I just know how much I watch and I watch a ton. And I wasn't exactly breaking down Daniel Jones left and right, knowing what to make of him. And now we have this massive game for him, his first game. And now everybody that was

crushing Daniel Jones, let's face it, like we are very malleable when it comes to this kind of stuff where it's like, well, man, I really went hard on him and the Giants in April, and I said it was a joke, so let me try to pull back on this a little bit. But then it's like, wait a minute. Are you supposed to pull back because Daniel Jones had a great first game against Tampa Bay? Haven't we done this before? So that would be my general thing is, first of all, don't take any of us that seriously, I guess, except for me. And, you know, I've had teams on the NBA side call me to complain about other people that are opinion people in the business. And I go, hey, I can guarantee you like that guy wasn't watching the Trailblazers game on Tuesday at 10 o'clock Eastern. He wasn't. You know what I mean? That's just the job. Hey, this is happening.

Here's the story. What's your take on it? Boom. Done. Nice tie. Sit there. So I'm at this point where I'm watching all of these quarterbacks and everybody just try to shuffle around trying to figure out what they're supposed to say. And obviously all of us want to be right far more than we want to be wrong we all have a hard time being wrong that i've never been more clueless about the position i don't know what the hell daniel jones is going to be now maybe everybody at duke was really bad around him and he needed nfl style dudes um to to show off his ability that's probably part of it it's also i think a little bit with new quarterbacks. I've always had this theory, and maybe you could do it,

especially against really big-time prep baseball teams, but if you threw an unknown AAA guy out there in game one or two of a playoff series, would you have a better chance than, say, your number two or three starter just because it'd be arm angle and stuff and nobody really knows what the hell the guy's second and third pitches are

because they've never, ever seen him before. I do think there's something to be said for that with quarterbacks. But whether or not Daniel Jones is going to be a star and worthy of a sixth pick and everybody trying to delete all their tweets that said Daniel Jones sucks, I'm just not ready to anoint him. Just like I kind of felt like, all right, all these guys are screaming about him, but I know none of you have watched him at Duke. We did this before.

You go back to Cam's first year. Week one, Arizona, 24-37, 422 yards, two touchdowns a pick, ran it in once. The reaction after that was either, I told you about Cam or anybody that was anti-Cam, because I remember specifically certain radio shows that were anti-Cam going, oh, wow, I was told this guy's going to light up the league. Well, now we're almost a decade removed from it. And it's like, what do we have in Cam? We have somebody that might get replaced by Kyle Allen, which, again, seems kind of aggressive because Cam, at the very least, even if 2015 was his peak and maybe even fluky, which I

think there's an argument to be made for that in that Super Bowl run year where he was really good and even better in the second half of the season, he's at least somebody that you took that high and turned out to be a franchise quarterback for a really long time. And now maybe it's just injuries. And boy, it looked terrible in that game against Tampa because it just looked like a defeated guy out there. And I don't know what to make of him. But I do know that those that doubted him at the draft and then after week one felt like they had to do this massive pivot. And it's like, wait a minute, you have to do that I mean week two he threw it for 432 yards and I remember reading that the yardage totals were the most ever blah blah blah blah blah since and that's what's happening left and right now Daniel Jones the first ever quarterback to do this this and this

and I always feel like it's sortable if you want to find something historic from a performance you can just sort it with the right bookends and you'll find a way to make it sound like somebody's done something that's never been done before, even if that's accurate. 2015, Jameis Winston. What do we make of this guy? Well, we know he's not a great athlete coming out of Florida State. We know that he's a little loose with the football, but then he starts putting up some big yardage numbers and he actually made the Pro Bowl his rookie year. Now, again, you know how I feel about Pro Bowl quarterbacks. 11 quarterbacks technically were Pro Bowl quarterbacks in 2015.

So next time one of your buddies is like, dude, whatever, Nick Foles made a Pro Bowl. You know, Nick Foles made the Pro Bowl with Philly the first time he was there. People forget that. You know why? Because it's easy to forget and you should have forgotten it. So Jameis in 2015, like putting up some big numbers, throwing the ball to the other side a little bit too much. All right. Seven coordinators later, he's still the same freaking guy. So that one kind of, I think, nail on the head a little bit where Mariota was the guy behind

him going, I don't really know. I watched all those Oregon games. I loved what he did in college. I loved how they talked about how smart he was in reading defenses and predicting what safety's coverages would be. And that's why when he was in there, they're like, man, this guy's special. But I'd sit with McShay and watch the, I don't know if it was Huddle or whatever it was, the scout video, and he'd say, you know, the difference between Jameis and Mariota is Jameis makes more NFL throws and Mariota's making less anticipation throws. It's a read, okay, that's where the guy is, make that throw,

and that limits him, and he's going to have to improve that. I think he's still that same guy. And it's, you know, these are two quarterbacks, by the way. My rule, the NFL tells you what they think of you. When two teams say, yeah, we'll just pay you that $20 million for that one year so we don't have to give you an extension with all sorts of bonus money, that means they're as skeptical of their own quarterbacks as the rest of us are from the outside. How about RG3 in 2012? Rookie of the year. Deserved it. Went up against that, hey, I think luck is going to be really good, but what is RG3 in this Heisman-type offense that's incredible? What is he going to be as a pro? And it all kind of worked. But you know what? 3,200 yards, 20 touchdowns, that would have been 21st in touchdowns and yards in 2018. Just six years later, those numbers aren't even that impressive anymore. And again, that's a lot of the offensive changes that we've seen in the league and the rules. But he was rookie of the year, and it looked like Washington finally had their franchise

quarterback. He couldn't keep himself healthy. He blamed the offense, which was ridiculous, because the Haloti Nata shot was on RG3. It wasn't offensive designs there. And then, look, he's a blip, and it never happened. So we have what Baker last year, getting ready to take Cleveland to Superbowl. I know Baker and Kyler Murray, as I've said, those guys would have been mid round picks five to 10 years ago. Okay. But now I'm supposed to think Baker off of last year was ready to go to the Superbowl, but I'm also not ready to crush the guy. Cause I still think he's really talented. I don't know what to make a Kyler Murray again, I would have written him off five or 10 years ago, but now I have to have more of an open mind

because of some of the things we've already seen. So as I watch every single week, I'm lost on Saturdays thinking, is this guy going to be good? Like, I don't know. Somebody asked me about Mason Rudolph the other day, and I go, you know, normally I'd say no shot. Oklahoma State, weird system,

you know, not even going Brandon Whedon. And I'm not telling you he looked good against San Francisco, but it's his first game he's really ever played in. So I can't really write him off. But now I'm having an open mind, not because of me becoming more mature or accepting. It's because of just straight confusion. Hell, Sam Darnold last year against Detroit. Okay, boom, the Jets all set. I did a poll the other day on Twitter. Who would you rather have, Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold? 60% of you, over 30 million votes, I think, went with Daniel Jones, which I knew was going to happen.

Lamar looks better, but are we ready to do this and say he was actually really good last year and now he's awesome? The production's incredible. Is it the competition? Is it somebody figuring him out? Did Kansas City figure him out a little bit with some of that coverage? I don't know. I'm confused on that one.

I think I know Deshaun Watson's going to be really good because he makes plays that other guys just can't make. And there's just something there with Deshaun where I feel like I think I know more with him. Josh Allen, I think it's going to end up being disappointing. I just do. And I could be wrong. Jimmy Garoppolo, I don't know.

Cam, we've been over. All of a sudden, even though I liked watching Gardner Minshew in those late Washington State games and seeing what he did to Oregon, especially in that first half and going, man, there's something here with this guy. He went in the sixth round. So am I supposed to have an open mind about Minshew? And does that mean I have to have an open mind about Luke Falk after decades of Mike Leach players never working out? Because never forget, Tim Couch was the original Mike Leach bust. He was the guy that looked the part, Kentucky, but at that point, nobody really knew that the air raid didn't translate to the NFL. And you're like, how does this guy go number one?

And it's not even close to happening. And then it was like, oh, let's go back and look what happened to a Mike Leach guy. But now it's different. Now it's going to work in Jacksonville. Brissette, I don't know. I know Chris Long loves him. Trubisky? I think I know, and I don't want to hear about that game against the Redskins. But the overriding point on all this stuff, I mean, even Kyle Allen, like now Carolina's psyched and it's fixed because they

won one game with this guy. We're seeing unprecedented intro production from quarterbacks that we've never, ever seen before. But it's not just because everybody's better or more prepared, because those things could be true. I just find it more confusing than it's ever been before. And as I watch guys on Saturday, guys that I normally would dismiss unless they were the far extremes. Like when I watched Luck in person numerous times and on TV, I went, it all makes sense. And when I watched Terrell Pryor on the sideline, I'll never forget being at the Wisconsin game. It was the second time I'd seen him in person. And Van Pelt turns to me after like one third and seven and goes, oh my God, like this isn't going to work. And I go, yeah, that's what I've been telling you. Like it's, you can see it. I still think I can figure out the extremes at the position, but man, it is brutal for me to

decipher guys I normally would write off versus guys that I would think were going to be locks at the position. And as we know, there's no such thing as a lock at quarterback. Todd McShay, including impact offensive players, coming up here in just a moment. But today's episode is brought to you by Floor & Decor. Don't miss out. Floor & Decor is the only one-stop flooring shop that keeps general contractors, flooring specialists, and renovation experts ahead of the game. Thanks to their fully stocked warehouse of hard surface flooring, no job is too big. Job lock quantities of tile, wood, and stone are in stock and available for convenient worksite delivery. And their dedicated pro services team is here to help

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That's flooranddecor.com. Todd, I just did this open about quarterbacks in the NFL and that, you know, I feel like, look, I don't watch it the way you watch it or Amel watches it, but I still watch a lot on Saturdays. And I used to kind of think, all right, well, you know, I think this guy could be good. I don't think this guy will be any good. And now that we've seen so many different styles come in, the offensive explosion overnight, the production that we've seen from some of these young players, like I look at a Daniel Jones and go, wow, is he good? And then I think, wait a minute, we've seen this before with so many other quarterbacks. And I think, wait a minute, we've seen this before with so many other quarterbacks. I guess what I'm doing is I'm admitting that despite what I watch and doing this for as many years as I have, the 10,000 hours plus, I don't think I've ever been more confused about trying to figure out which guy's going to be a good NFL quarterback. You know, Jordan Palmer said that to me in April or maybe March.

He's a guy I know quarterback really well and he has become the new George Whitfield and takes all the top quarterback prospects and works with them and he's like I'm working through it but I feel like everyone

evaluating quarterbacks is less informed and has less of a feel than they've ever had before. And I was like, you know what? I think you're right. And the reason I think you're right is because there's no prototype anymore. We used to be able to count out, you know, under six foot, um, hand size, this, that, and the other thing. And now it's really about finding guys that can get the ball out quickly and obviously accuracy. Accuracy and the mental makeup are always going to be two commonalities. But there are other aspects of the game now that it has become less of a

between the tackles game and more of a finesse game. And with teams spreading it out and actually having success in different varieties of ways. And there's no, I don't want to bore everyone, but like everyone says, well, RPO, yeah, but you can work in some RPO, but it doesn't mean you have to be a run-pass option offense. You can work in an option play here or there, but that doesn't mean you have to be singular. Every team, just about every team out there,

is mixing in a lot of different things. And I think that's becoming one of the biggest things is finding a quarterback who can make you multiple and allow you to do different things. And they don't always look like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning or Eli Manning. But the problem is you also go back and you look at the history of the NFL and the Super Bowl winners, and they're all 6'3 to 6'5, 220 to 250, I think it's going to change. And I think those that are hung up on it

are going to be behind the times. But, I mean, we got Russell and Drew, Breeze, right? Those are the two. And everybody else kind of fits in that same mold. So I think the game is changing. I think it's changing quickly. And I think if you don't adapt,

you're going to wind up being several steps behind. So, I mean, you were leaving Baker and Kyler out as the smaller guys only because it's not known yet, right? Where the other two guys are known. Right. We have no sample size, really. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

So have you watched Kyler all in the pros? I know you're traveling for the Saturday college stuff. Have you got to watch him yet? Yeah. I think he's been up and down. From what I've seen, he's been up and down. I mean, there are times where he looks really confident and quick and knows where he's going with the ball

and he's effective and there are times where you know i think he needs some developing still to do and i think baker as great as he was last year i think everyone has spent the off season trying to figure out how to deal with baker and Baker spent the off season dealing with his brand. Not that he wasn't working. I don't, you know, take that wherever you want. I don't,

I actually don't care. Easy cowherd. No, but I'm just saying, I think my guess is I love Baker. I really do. I've always loved Baker. I think it's very easy to get caught in the trap of had a really great rookie season, got all these weapons coming in, got all this talent coming in.

And I think everyone in the league now is like, how are we going to shut this dude down? And I think we're seeing some of those early struggles. The Baker thing, though, with the brand, I just think it's so unfair. And I know you're not necessarily saying it, but you said it. And I just go, I think we both know there's plenty of guys that can work on their brand and still take care of business. The same thing happened to RG3, where all of a sudden you had a ton of ads. And that's what happens when you're in D.C., a big market. It's not even, like, forget the brand part.

It's just the amount of time that it requires to live up to expectations of marketing. You know how it is. I mean, you're getting marketed all the time i don't get those mcshay marketing deals i see all over the place hawking grills and it takes time yeah it takes time it takes time and i i think i think when you're five six seven years in and established and you know how to manage your time, it's just time efficiency.

I think that's the big thing. And it takes a while to learn time efficiency. I think we all work on it. But I know this. When I was 22, I didn't know time efficiency like I do now. And I didn't think having two kids, a dog and a wife and all this other stuff going on in my life that I could have any way of doing my job as well as I wanted to do it at that time. And I think he's going to have to learn to manage that over time.

When it comes to the young guys and the work ethic thing, I have to hear directly from a team guy who I trust, who says this player fill in the blank isn't doing his job because we both know there's plenty of dudes that find a way to live the life and build the brand. And yet they're still doing the workouts the right way and putting in all the time. So I think Baker has one of those things where we just, it's totally unfair. And it's not even specific to Baker is that as soon as somebody is a little disappointing, we start pointing to all the other outside stuff as a direct correlation to why somebody isn't as good.

And when I just watch them on Sundays, I get why he went one. Now I took me a little longer with him because I think the Oklahoma thing scares me, but now I realize like the Oklahoma thing is more real than other schools, which we've been over. But you know, when he's getting it out and that throw,

like that stuff, the mechanics and the delivery and the throw it's, it's awesome. But then when it's off, you're like, Oh, the mechanics and the delivery and the throw, it's awesome. But then when it's off, you're like, oh, okay. Like this guy, ironically, it's like he's not as good of a freestyle as you would think based on what we saw in college, where when everything's like has more construction to it, he's incredible. So that's what I've seen at least the beginning of this year because I've been watching him closer. Yeah, no, I tend to agree.

I'm just, I think there are several factors i think one is he was able to extend plays more in college um you know he's a four nine guy he's not a four six guy he and so that element of the game is not as much there it's still there he has a great feel he's quicker than fast and all that but i i think there's something, too. If you're a defensive coordinator, especially in that division, who's the guy you want to figure out this offseason? Who's the guy you're spending a little extra time

in? It's 9 o'clock at night. You want to go home. You haven't seen your kids. You're pissed off. You got all this stuff going on. But I got to figure out this guy. Because all I see is Baker, right? There's something to that. And I think he's going to now have to – it's just a chess match.

He's going to now have to go back and figure out, all right, what are they doing to me? What are they trying to throw at me that's working on the defensive side? And what can I do to counter that? And, again, I'm not bashing him at all. I told you, I really like Baker. I'm just saying this league has a funny way of making a superstar into a very average player at that position

if everyone's focusing on trying to shut you down. Because everyone has weaknesses, except maybe Brady and Aaron Rodgers. So I know that this could turn into, I don't know if this would be, and I'm not doing this as like the jerky thing, like Jamarcus Russell, ooh, you're so stupid at this. You know, look, it's not because we're friends.

I understand the process of it. By the way, did I tell you that I was out with the LSU guys recently and they told me Jamarcus stopped by and he threw it six. He hit the goal post. He hit the crossbar from 60 yards out on his first throw. Of course he did. Probably on his knees. They were like, you can't hit that again. Like the younger dudes are messing with him. And Jamarcus was like, all right, first throw hits it. Doink. And the guys on the staff were like, he's still the most amazing thrower of the football we've ever seen in our life. So, okay, the Daniel Jones thing. So everybody's going to want to talk to you now about Daniel Jones

because you thought it was a mistake on draft night to take him sixth. But, listen, I've missed on so many guys. I've hit on so many guys. I've been right on so many guys that I knew weren't going to be good, like the Tebows of the world. And even, you know, is Derek Carr going to be what everyone thought he was going to be after a year? It's a long process.

You've got to give it at least three years. No one wants to. Everyone wants to make a decision after one game, and I get it. But I also, I think, I would like to think I'm as open as anyone out there to admitting where I'm I've been wrong and I don't like I don't get a ton

of pleasure internally I like to be right obviously but it doesn't do it doesn't give me any like pleasure to be like I don't like oh, I got this guy. Right. And I, and I understand that I take the beating when, when I'm wrong and I've been wrong plenty of times.

You know what? I may, I may be way off, but I thought coming into it, he was more in that like Clawson Quinn type of range where if he was put in a situation to be a backup, he'd be, he could be a really good backup and maybe develop into a starter, but he's played at a far more advanced level than I expected. And if he continues to, I'll eat it for the rest of his career.

So I, I watch Minshew a lot because you know, they, they're always on in that window and I'm not going to tell you this isn't surprising because it is still surprising that you see a guy be that seamless about it. And I was reading an interview with DeFilippo. That's John DeFilippo, who's one of the offensive coaches of the OC down there. And he said something that I thought was really fascinating, but also at the same time really disappointing when they were like, hey, once you know, like Gardner kind of had this it factor, right? And right now he's got the if factor.

He's wearing the throwback jean shorts and the whole deal. And we'll see if there's a correction on him because I always feel like with a lot of these guys, especially more of the dual threat guys, but like I've always felt like there's sort of this correction that the league does on some of these QBs. And DiFilippo said, you know, as soon as we got him in here, I was like blown away. I'm like, okay, this guy's picking up things way faster. And it's not just, it's not about his physical stuff because the physical stuff is why he went so late. It's the stuff that we couldn't figure out until we got him in here. Isn't, doesn't there have to be a better way? And that's why I said it was great, but also disappointing. Doesn't there have to be a better way for these 32 NFL teams with so much on the line to find? Is it worth the NFL assigning the QB? I'm not even saying therapist, but is there a way to figure out to have somebody closer to all of these power five quarterbacks where none of this stuff is a surprise anymore because I look, the coaches are going to lie to you because they can't bury their own kids for the most part,

because if they do, it gets out and recruiting. And then it just trashes, you know, like it's the worst thing you can do as a power five coach. I mean, it still happens sometimes I've heard stories, but I guess whenever I'm like 2019,

Todd DeFilippo is basically saying like, we still don't have any process of really knowing how much these guys know until we've actually drafted them. I think one of the next things that we're going to see, and I totally agree with what you're saying. Some of it, you just, you can't quantify some of it.

You just, you can't know until you're with them day in and day out. Some of it also is BS too. I mean, let's face it. Some of it's like, Oh yeah, he's doing well.

Yeah. I knew the second he came in and I got my hands on him. I hear all the same things over and over again, right? Yeah, absolutely. But I do think, I do think if you're talking just purely looking forward, I think there's something to virtual reality in terms of pre-draft testing

to get a quarterback and legitimately put them in and try to get more reps and more real reps instead of just like pro days, you know, individual workouts, seven, not even seven on seven, seven on seven on nothing.

And, and trying to get a sense for him. Yeah, we put him on the board. We talked to him. We installed 13 plays, and then we brought him to the field, and he picked it up quickly. I think the virtual reality thing has a chance to help. I don't think anything's ever going to be perfect,

but I think that kind of testing could maybe be the next step in the process. And I don't have the answer for it. I haven't heard a whole lot about it, but I know Drew Brees spends a lot of time with virtual reality stuff, and it helps him processing and understanding defenses. And you don't really know until you get him in those situations. And how am I going to know with a broom or, you know, a fake 45-year-old defender coming at him with a bag? Like, it's just not reality. And you can watch the tape, but what you need to do

is put them, you need to install in their brain. These are 12 plays that we're going to run on Sunday. Now we're going to walk from the office. We're going to go to the practice field and we're going to put something on you virtually. And you're going to see an actual NFL defense against these 12 plays, what's your pre snap read? How are you checking? Are you killing kill, kill, kill? Are we killing the play? Are you moving it from right to left and then post snap? Boom. Okay. Now the single high went to too deep. What, how's your whole read change? And how quickly do you figure that out? How do you process it?

And can you adjust to the fact that your wide receiver realized that it's not a single high, it's a double high, and now we've got to work the seam instead of working the out? Those sorts of things, it's hard. These pro days look so cute, and they're great for TV and the combines good for all that stuff. But part of the reason the quarterback position so difficult is teams want to do certain things and they need to know mentally what you are. And then there's also like the other intangibles and the,

like the, you are and then there's also like the other intangibles and the like the the ability to channel energy and anger and frustration and all that stuff but i think apples to apples that might be the closest way we could get to improving the the quarterback evaluation process so in your latest mock or your rankings and look there's even team assigned and i know you do the one right after the draft that we talk about how much you hate, but you have two or one and I've watched probably about as much too, as I can,

other than some of those non-conference that are blowouts. But then I still find myself going back to it because I love watching him. I love watching those receivers. I mean, you have Judy too. You have rugs 10 and that doesn't even, I mean, waddles nuts.

Smith is nuts. I mean, it's just nuts. This receiving core and the depth. And I know, you know, 10 and that doesn't even i mean waddle's nuts smith is nuts i mean it's just nuts this receiving core and the depth and i know you know whenever anybody says well you know i don't like him because the injury thing like that i can't predict you can't predict it too no one can predict what it is unless there's like a real problem there but i am donald was the most durable quarterback ever coming out and he just got mono i mean. Perfect. But when I watch Tua,

I'm going to let myself, despite all the confusion I've just admitted to, I'm going to let myself go ahead and say, I'd be surprised if he's not a really good quarterback in the NFL. Just watching it into a second year and seeing what he does, I really think he is that special. Obviously, I agree with you having him

one. Yeah, I think so too, man. He's got a little, there's... I always talk to you like I'm talking to you on the phone, but I'll just be real. There's a little, I don't want to say diva, but a little like entitlement there because he's the Bama guy

and he's got every weapon you could possibly have. and he's got every weapon you could possibly have. He's got every outlet you could ever possibly have as a quarterback. Like, you can't be in a better situation than the situation that Tua has been in, right? No doubt. But I also, there are very few quarterbacks that I've ever watched that throw the ball more naturally with anticipation, know how to layer it in touch throws when to drive it.

He doesn't have a big arm. Like maybe drew, drew breeze at best somewhere in that neighborhood. But the ball's out on – he reminds me a lot of Drew Brees. No, but you just said drive the ball. Like, that's what I see. Like, when there's that slant, and granted, some of the stuff they're running with these guys,

like their guys are beating coverage on slants left and right. But the way he is on top of the throw there's there's just something there and you know Pollock definitely got my head a little bit and that his the way he plays with defensive backs with his eyes and his shoulders is really incredible for a kid this young to already have those tricks down it's incredible it's incredible like that I mean it'll always be his signature throw that touchdown to win the national championship. But how quickly he came off, he knew he was going left down the rail. But to hang on to that safety that long in that moment, as a freshman in the national championship game

with everything on the line, all you want to do is see the receiver as a quarterback. It is your, you know, it's your kryptonite. You just want to see it. You want to see the quarterback. You want to, I mean, the receiver. You want to trust that. For him to hang on that long and then, boom,

to come off it and put the ball where he did just to make sure that safety was not involved in that throw. And he makes a throw or a decision like that every game where you're just like, wow, this guy is a different level. But honestly, it goes back to accuracy for me. And I think he's the most accurate quarterback in the country now trevor lawrence is is better he's got he's got more going for him um but i don't know that i've seen a more accurate quarterback in several years than to him how many quarterbacks then could go in this class?

In the first round? Yeah. Right, right. Not, I wasn't going to do seventh rounders to you right now. You don't want to grind through? Chua, obviously. I think Jacob Eason is going to be in the mix. Justin Herbert will be.

They both have, like, They're not there yet. That's going to be the frustrating part. But Herbert has the big arm and he's mobile. I think Jacob Eason is developing into a quarterback, not just a slinger, but I want to see more of it. He was awesome against BYU. He was

18 of 20 in the first half. And they were running... BYU was... I was at the game against BYU. He was 18 of 20 in the first half. And they were running, BYU was, I was at the game, BYU was rushing three, dropping eight, making him throw into tight windows, different zone looks. And I'm not saying they're great, but they were throwing different things at him, and he

was patient, understood what to look for, and was really good. Jake Fromm, the other who took Easton's job at Georgia, he has a fraction of the tools that Easton or Herbert have. But there's something about that dude. You go back and you watch the two losses at the end of the year against a Bama and then Texas in the bowl game. I studied over both of those games.

There were at least five throws that were drops in both of those games where they were like the perfect throws. And all of a sudden, you know, he looked at the percentages and the numbers and what the results could have been. And I don't know. He reminds me, like I work with Ryan Greasy. Greasy was in the league for 13 years, I think it was. And nobody, and he basically, he was a walk-on, nobody

thought he was any good gets in the league and bounced around to a bunch of different places he didn't have the big arm, he didn't have the mobility none of that stuff, but he just kind of got it and showed up in big moments and I think

Fromm's got a chance to be like him so those in big moments. And I think he's got it. I think from, he's got a chance to be like him. So those are the four guys that I think, I don't know if I'm going to be a first round pick or not. We'll see. But those are the four guys that I like, but really all for different reasons.

Okay. You didn't mention Joe Burrow at LSU. He's playing his ass off. He is a totally different quarterback than the one I saw last year. And if he keeps this up, then yes, he's going to be involved. And what is it, Jordan Love from Utah State. He's got a lot of talent too. So there are other guys.

But Burrow is, to me, the single player who's most different or most changed than the player I saw from a year ago. I'm interested to see if he can keep it up. Yeah, it's going to be a little different here. I also think there's some weird stuff happening with LSU's defense that isn't because they're not good. It's because this is so

abnormal to them that when they know they're scoring in three plays every time down, they're like, yeah, whatever. I watch a good chunk of the Vandy thing and it's like, okay, they're up seven, nothing. And we're just going to go ahead and do our thing. Um, you didn't mention Montez of Colorado. Uh, I've watched love for one game this year and you watch him. And I mean, I'm, I know I sound far too simplistic with this, but you just watch him throw the football around. You're like, oh, okay. Like this is why this guy's on the radar. Um, but yeah, you didn't, you didn't mention Montez,

which I'm not challenging you on it. I just think I'm wondering if that's just a height-weight thing for him and Colorado winning a couple more games. Yeah, I watched a little bit in the preseason, and I honestly have not seen enough yet this season, but I will. It's a long year. I think if things go perfectly,

we're talking like third, fourth round, somewhere in that range but I think Love from Utah State has got better tools and Bernal I don't even know what to do with right now because I thought he was a maybe seventh round free agent

coming into the year and he's playing like a potential day two pick and I've got to study more of year and he's playing like a potential day two pick and I've just got to I've got to study more of it but just he's he's in such control of the offense and just knew where to go with the ball it's like it all clicked I know he's a coach's son and I've sat with him for 30 minutes and talked to him and he's a different cat but he's a smart cat um yeah i just feel like he's finding his own and sometimes sometimes it's just confidence you know like anything in life sometimes it's just

ah okay got it now i know where to go with the ball now i know what you guys want me to do now i know if we're trying to do this and they show me that, that I can change to this and you just become more decisive and all that. But he's got solid tools, but he's just playing at a higher level so far this year. And we'll find out because the SEC, you know, that tape doesn't lie man it really doesn't we'll find out by the end of the year if this is all real and and consistent so you're traveling as i mentioned like some people may be going what's going on you're like well you know you're traveling every single weekend on the on the college football broadcast with leaving greasy um and you've been

doing it now for a little while and so as i always try to like sort through what's real and what isn't with the conference stuff let's start with the big 10 you know ohio state it's almost foolish to ever doubt them penn state i don't really know what to do with but i kind of felt that way in august with another quarterback in after you know look say what you want about mcsorley. The guy was a baller. Um, and maybe Wisconsin replaces Michigan is the other really good team and Michigan state's offense is still a mess. But if we start with Michigan, you know, I was defending Harbaugh forever. I still think, look, if he's happy there and they're happy with him, then everybody should just move on because they don't want to get rid of them. But yeah, now this is disappointing.

Uh, I wasn't as disappointed as maybe other people in the public. Maybe I'm stubborn. Maybe I'm totally wrong about it. I know this. You can read between the lines. Just about everyone who's anyone from an alumni standpoint is fed up. It's one thing to not allow anyone into your practices and to do all that stuff and to be difficult,

but it's another to do it and lose. And then it's another level to do it and lose in an embarrassing way, like you did. And I've heard from people like, hey, Charles Woodson is going to be the last one to give up. And if you go back and watch what he had to say at the end of the day in Fox I think you kind of

you get the message I think I'm shocked that we're here and it happened fast and I think he's a good coach he's a good coach. He's got a lot to overcome, I think, just judging by the people I've talked to.

Yeah, as I was saying, the scary part... I mean, you can't lose to Wisconsin that way, Priscilla. You can't go and just get your ass handed to you like that. No, that's embarrassing. I mean, one thing you think is going to happen at the very least, hey, we'll look bad on offense again, but we'd be competitive because our defense is good. And they got gashed. I mean, gashed all day long. They got smoked.

Smoked. And the point I'm trying to make here is that usually by now Harbaugh's already delivered. And this is when everybody starts getting sick of each other. Because he's a tough guy. Like, he's a friend. He's not a roommate. He's a guy that, hey, I'd be friends with him but i'd never want to live with him and when you're living

with him you know whether it's stanford being like okay it's over beat it i'd have a beer with him i don't know i'd be friends with him i'd have a beer with him yeah the friend thing might even might even be tough but um you know what i mean i think there's a difference yeah i felt like the arguments against him for a while were were just too much and now i'm having a hard time uh defending this because i would have never thought it would have been going in this kind of direction based on where he was in year two and year three and flirting with the playoff and even, you know,

flirting with it a little bit. But after that Wisconsin game, you just sit there and be like, wait a minute. Now you guys are going to suck on defense too. And there's some people that think that Ohio state when, what they did to him last year, that now people have been able to figure out how to game plan against their

defense on top of Patterson being a disappointment and getting benched. When, you know, you look, stop having a million penalties, stop turning the football over, and maybe this defense figures itself out. But they could win every single game.

They're probably going to be 5-1. They could win every single game up in Ohio State again. If they get smoked by them, no one's going to care. Yeah, yeah. And, I mean, I love Don Brown, the defensive coordinator. They play a little too much man-to-man. They've got to adjust it. Offensively, the reason Harbaugh came in was quarterbacks and his system,

and they've completely scrapped the system, and they're getting – and Shade wasn't a good fit, and they're getting McCaffrey killed now. I don't know. It's surprising. I really – and I'm on record saying, like I thought when he came back to college that it was, at that point it was Nick, Chavin, Urban Meyer,

and that Harbaugh was third on the list at that point. That was, what, four or five years ago? The other thing is with That was, what, four or five years ago? The other thing is, with all the recruiting hype and the trips to Europe and the sleeping at kickers' houses and all the other crazy stuff he's done, where's all the talent?

I just, I don't see it. I've seen the receivers. And they're linebackers and some of those guys have been really good. I don't see it. I've seen the receivers. They're linebackers, and some of those guys have been really good. I don't know. I get the sense that this could be the last year. It wouldn't shock me if he tried to bail out. Really? Yeah.

I feel like you know more than you're telling me. No, not necessarily. I've told you basically everything I know. It just wouldn't shock me if he wound up trying to get out before the fire. But, honest to God, I don't know that. Just watching the press conference the other day, he was just like... And I know, after a loss like that, no one's going to look good. He just looked like he was checked out mentally.

I'm sure he can't believe it. I mean, I can't believe it. You can't believe it. I mean, think about him. I mean, he's a dude looking in the mirror saying, who's better than us? There's a stone factor. Okay, so I don't want to just do Michigan here.

You did that USC-Stanford game, which at the time, we didn't realize Stanford has major problems. I mean, to think of all the things that Stanford could be bad at, blocking people would never be on the list, and they can't block anybody. I mean, they were terrible against Oregon again, too, even though that score wasn't that bad. But when I watch all these Pac-12 games in general, and I know if we do the playoff thing, we start going, okay, you've got to worry about Texas-Oklahoma that are better than your Pac-12 games in general. And I know, you know, if we do the playoff thing, we start going,

okay, you know, you got to worry about Texas, Oklahoma that are better than your Pac-12 team, maybe two SEC teams, who the hell's beating Clemson? Cause the ACC is a disaster. The big 10,

we just went over who's being Ohio state. And even if you don't think it's as deep or it's just as deep as we thought it was August, because Michigan swapped out with Wisconsin, the Pac-12 is still behind these teams. Even though I feel like for some to say Cal's their only hope in the playoff, that's very dismissive of Oregon. Not because I think Oregon's amazing, but like Oregon, if they run this

and Auburn's still good, like it's not a bad resume. And there's still going to be stuff that we can't predict that's going to happen. But from a talent standpoint, I find the league to be smaller. I don't think the quarterback depth is there the way it's been in the past. And I like this conference so much, but I'm having a harder time defending it. Yeah, it's tough because I really like Keaton Slovis after that Stanford game. like Keaton Slovis after that Stanford game. And obviously the injury and then Stanford goes and, you know,

it's done what it's done and got worked by UCF. So it's hard to, you know, it's only in the season. You know, in all this stuff, and I find myself every single year trying to remind myself, you got to put everything in perspective. You really do and we we all not to be cliche but we all do this same stuff man every year like we want answers so it's clemson it's alabama like some crazy stuff's gonna happen and let's just let it play it play out but

nobody wants to everyone wants to try to get the answer right now. I think USC is better than people think. Okay. I think physically up front, they are more aggressive and tough than they've been in years. And it's good to see. I think they have some weapons, but they're not elite USC weapons. Can they hang on and figure out the quarterback situation and get healthy? Defensively, I think they're just okay. I think Arizona State is a good team, not a great team. I think Cal is better than we all think.

That defense is good. The secondary, all that stuff is real. I know, and I than we all think. That defense is good. And I'm excited. Yeah, all that stuff is real. Yeah, I know, I know. And I didn't expect it, because when's the last time Cal had a good defense? I think there were signs last year, but I become numb after I've read the 60th team preview about how awesome they're going to be

and how everybody's saying the right things and they have an awesome saying. Right, but I do think it's a different day there. I really do. Absolutely. No, we're in total agreement. I think Arizona State is what we think they are, probably 3-4 loss team, but good.

And I think that's what, unfortunately for the Pac-12, and I guess fortunately at the same time, I think they've got a lot of good programs and a lot of good teams but there's no great yeah because I mean we didn't even I don't know if I I talked over you there but like I'm not writing Utah off all of a sudden because they lost to USC USC's home after a loss and Matt Fink comes in and it was I mean you think about the third string really good team but they're not great they're they're physical they're gonna beat you up defensively i think offensively they can get hot but they're not consistently gonna be good and then when i

think of of gordon there at washington state uh i loved him in that houston game i'm like wait a minute like this kid this kid delivers a ball and i'm not just talking about you know i'm not doing this in the nine touchdown game after the UCLA game, but I look at the rest of their schedule. There's still a chance for Washington State to do some really cool things here, but it's actually a brutal schedule the rest of the way. They still have Washington, they have Oregon,

they have Arizona State, they have Utah, they have Cal. Even Colorado at home is not some Colorado at home. Even if you're at home there with Colorado and some of the talent they have, think about the win they just pulled off missing two of their best players. You're right. It's a deeper conference, but nobody cares.

Nobody cares about it anymore if you don't have that headliner, but I still think before even in October, it's ridiculous to write off the entire conference because who thought Ohio State was going to lose to Purdue? Who thought Clemson was going to lose to Pitt a couple years ago? Oklahoma is always good for, you know, and I don't even mean that specific, like, nasty to Oklahoma,

but whenever anybody, like, shows me, oh, FPI says that 87% run the table and all this shit, and I just go, whatever, man. Like, I don't care. Like, we're not going to have four 12-0 teams at the end of this. So saying Cal's the Pac-12's only hope to me is dismissive of a lot of things in history that we see every single year. How many times have we seen the 13% come in, you know?

Or the 1%. Exactly. Texas, Oklahoma. Who's better right now? I know the easy answer is Oklahoma because they're destroying everybody. And Jalen Hurts looks like he's going to win the Heisman here. But I was impressed with Texas against LSU in the loss, even though I thought it was pretty clear that LSU was a better team.

And, you know, I watched that Oklahoma State game, and I probably left that game going, you know, Oklahoma State's got some ballers. Like, they competed out there. That wasn't an easy win for Texas. So, you know, to see Oklahoma State maybe be better than people thought because of the lack of schedule and having them unranked, like that wouldn't be new for the Pokes.

But I just – it's really easy to for the pokes, but I just, it's really easy to just go, Hey, Oklahoma is better. And maybe that's still the right answer, but I think that's what every other conference has to worry about is the winner of that game. I think,

first of all, they're, they're two of my favorite coaches in the country. And for very, not very different reasons. Lincoln is, you know, you sit in a room with Lincoln and it's like, not very different reasons. Lincoln is, you know, you sit in a room with Lincoln and it's like,

I get it. You know, he's, he's so smart, but like so humble about it that you don't, you don't, it doesn't come off as I'm trying to tell you how good I am. It's just like, I'm trying to tell you how good I am. It's just like I'm trying to talk ball and try to give you some of the answers.

He just respects the game so much, and you understand why. Literally, I'm telling you there are at least five NFL teams that would take, but would end their situation now and hire him. That's how, how respected he is. And then by the end of, I'm talking about right now, which is ridiculous.

By the end of the season, maybe a third of the league may, and maybe more, but that's how respected he league. And maybe more. But that's how respected he is. And when you sit with him, it's just like talking to him. You're sitting on the plane next to a really nice average personality guy. And he just won't let you know how smart he is, but you know how smart he is.

And he's just, he just gets it. And he cares about the players and all that. And, and Tom is just, he's fiery. And he's really smart offensively too. He doesn't get enough credit for that.

And I remember I spent a year with urban. Remember the whole fall going down every single week, spending a day at his house and watching. He would put on tape after tape after tape. I think Tom was at Iowa State at that point. Watch this guy. Watch what he does. Watch the counter. Watch this. And so that was not a surprise when he wound up hiring Tom Herman as his offensive coordinator at Ohio State.

But Tom is more, like I said, fiery and just gets after you and demands it. And they do it in different ways. So I love both of those guys. I think Oklahoma, they have so much in the tank in terms of talent. I think Texas is capable this year of doing it for the first time because I think they've recruited well enough. I still would give the edge to Oklahoma, but I think the gap is closing. And I think Ellinger is one of the big reasons

because he's just got something, man. He's just a he's a warrior. Is that when Urban wanted you to work for him? He never really, I mean, he inquired about like what I want to do in life. And we had a lot of long, long, good talks. But no, that's when, when we were doing game uh like game day hits and all that stuff and i went down and stayed at his house the first time shelly his wife the first time i knocked on the front door i didn't know where to go she opened the door like all right you and i need to talk

before you can go do all this tv stuff i was like okay yes'am. Tim Tebow is a son to me. I'm a guy, I love Tim. It's not, I think I just, you know, it's just about the draft stuff. She's like, alright. I just need you to understand that Tim Tebow is like a son to me. And I didn't like all the negative things. I was like, yes,

ma'am. Sorry. That was awkward. Did she apologize for you being right? No. They never do that, do they? It's all good. No, I know. It's all good.

I feel like I didn't really ask you much about the SEC. Before I let you go, one SEC observation, something real juicy you haven't even shared with anybody yet. I don't know whether it's a talent thing. You know, Bama's got six of the top 20 in your latest first round thing. I don't know if that's really interesting because I'm not going to sit here and say this is the most talented Bama team or all these different things. But give me a sense of, yeah, just give me something. I'm not even asking a question.

The best Todd McShay SEC take is is it's the same stuff man six bama players in my top 21 32 players drafted in the last three years 10 last year 12 the year before and 10 the year before that and they still have six in my top 21. It's just insane. And I look, all right, so Auburn's got one with Derek Brown, defensive tackle. LSU's got one with Grant Delpit, the safety. They've got two. LSU's got two with Christian Fulton, the cornerback. Georgia's got one with Andrew Thomas, the offensive tackle.

Obviously, Fromm is down a little bit, but somewhere in the top 40. I do think Auburn's a little bit better than people think. Yeah, I think it's going to be a Bo Nix thing. Yeah, A&M's going to keep getting better. Jimbo's going to recruit well there. He's got a lot of resources. Let's put it that way. A lot of resources. When I looked at your top 10, because I'm going Tua, Judy, love him, Delpit, love him, Okuda, love him, Chase Young, I freaking love. I mean, love. And that was,

you know, getting to see him in person seven stacks already bud i'd see that to me he was a sideline guy so that was like okay i'm gonna watch him and watching him from the sideline it was another experience altogether and his motor yeah i always think it's a little unfair we're like oh not a consistent motor it's like all right you run into another dude 70 plays and tell me how locked in you're gonna be every fucking snap um we're allowed to swear on this podcast but uh when i when i look at chase like it keeps going then i look at herber and then derrick brown he just mentioned auburn cd lamb oklahoma size on top of everything else although those dudes are wide open all the time fulton and then rugs like that this top 10 it

feels at least maybe it's too early to say, but this top 10 looks stacked for next year. It's really good. And then Adebo from Stanford, nobody knows about, gets overlooked. That's the kid that made that huge play in the back of the end zone a couple years ago, right? The corner. Yes. Adebo.

I forget the game, but he made all those plays. Paulson Adeibo from stanford he's like six two long arms and former receiver just makes plays on the ball um jacob eason is going to get in the mix whether you like him or not rayquan davis had some bad influences last year. It's been a better place this year. And you know what? Talk honestly to us about it, and I was really surprised. It was one of the more mature conversations I've had with a player

in my years of doing it. Like, you know, I just wasn't living up to who I needed to be, and my family told me. It's one thing for a coach to tell you, but And my family told me, and when my, he's like, it's one thing for a coach to tell you, but when your family tells you you're blowing it,

you know, you start to get it. And he's, he's a freak, man. Let me let you go on this one. Five years from now, from this class,

the best defensive player in the NFL will be. Chase Young. Yeah. That's what I thought. I mean, I'm really willing to admit, I don't know what as well as you did, but the best bet I think is, you know, you never know. That would be my bet. I think he's more talented

than both of the bosses just naturally. And I think he's starting to learn the hand-to-hand combat and all the things that the bosses learn to, to become as special as they are. And you put that combination together. If it happens, I think he's going to be a freak. Todd, I know we went long here, so thanks a lot, dude. I really appreciate it. You can check out all of his work on ESPN.com, The Breakdowns, and you can check him out every Saturday. Where are you on the road this week? Waco, Texas. You want to meet me?

You got an Iowa State of Baylor. I've already been to Waco, so I don't have to go again. Okay. I love you, dude. I'll talk to you soon. All right. Love you, too. Talk to you soon, bud. Thank you.