The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Questioning the NFL’s Dominance, Daniel Jeremiah on NFL Week 1 and Caleb Williams, and Skateboarding Legend Tony Hawk

Episode Date: August 31, 2023

Russillo kicks off the show with a look at the NFL’s dominance after its future was questioned not too long ago (1:00). Then, he’s joined by NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah to preview the start of the season (17:00) and discuss the biggest college prospects (40:00). Next, skateboarding legend Tony Hawk comes on to share stories from his early life (50:00) and give a glimpse into how 'Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater' got made (66:00). Last, the guys close it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (84:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Daniel Jeremiah and Tony Hawk Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's show is stacked i want to talk about the nfl's dominance and why it was even being questioned not that long ago because it was daniel jeremiah gets us ready for week one some of the stuff he's looking for in the nfl And also a little look ahead to top four or five guys for the NFL draft in 2024. Tony Hawk, a legend. His story, getting into skating, the run with Palo Peralta. If you're a guy of a certain interest at that time, what that was like. Shout out to Public Domain. And then the time when it didn't look like it was going to work out.

And it was just awesome to talk with him. And a fun life advice today as well. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping? Total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now.

Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. I want to start today's open talking about the NFL, which would make sense as the NFL is right around the corner. But talk about their positioning long-term. And not so much in comparison with the other leagues like basketball or baseball, because it would be a stupid exercise. Like, hey, is the NFL better positioned currently than those other leagues? Well, the answer is yes.

That's not what I'm going to spend 10 plus minutes on. But the real thing I want to bring up is go back a few years and talk about the long-term viability of the NFL, because it was actually questioned significantly for multiple years for a bunch of different reasons. The first time I started thinking about this again recently was Mark Cuban. I really like Mark Cuban. Every time I listen to him talk, he's very convincing. He's obviously very smart, has a great track record. There's been a few times over, what, the 20-plus years of hearing him talk publicly,

where I've been like, I don't agree with that. But look, for somebody that talks for a living. I also will have times where I would hope to not be written off because of one opinion, but Cuban's had a few where I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. Even though I still respect everything he has to say, he's actually so convincing. It made me think of him as a kid. Can you imagine arguing with him? If you were an adult, you'd be like, look, Mark, it's a really good point, but you're nine. with him if you were an adult. He'd be like, look, Mark, it's a really good point, but you're nine. Shut the fuck up. Alright? Just go outside.

Cuban was asked about the long-term viability of the NFL, and in March of 2014, he said, quote, I think the NFL is 10 years away from implosion. He's got one year on that one. Pigs get fat. Hogs get slaughtered.

And the quote is more damning than the point that he was making, which is usually always the case, but that's a pretty bold prediction. That's definitely not coming true. His point was that, all right, you're putting NFL games on Thursday nights and you're moving around. I actually used to always talk about it with my buddies. I wonder if the NFL would have been to the point where they just put a game on every single night because they dominate TV ratings. And if the sport isn't as perfectly packaged as it is now, could that actually water it down and all these different things? Could you be making, kind of when I talk about conference realignment, could you be making short-term win decisions that are long-term

losses? I understand his point, but as far as being 10 years away from implosion, making that call nine years ago, not even close. In December of 2017, when he was asked about the Panthers, he said, quote, why would I buy an NFL team? I think the league is in decline. Now, if you listen to some of his thoughts on the NFL, and this isn't all going to be about Mark Cuban, there's a self-serving point of this too, where if you're an NBA owner, you're going to say publicly like, hey, I'd want to get into the NBA business. The NBA business ratings-wise, comparing to the NFL is a waste of time. Not going to do it. It's not even close. But you could say positioning themselves globally, they're far superior to the NFL.

It's a more global product. And there's a bunch of different things we can do and play all these different games but as far as this country right now supremacy it's it's unchallenged but the reason I bring all this stuff up is the NFL did have a really weird stretch I'll look at ratings I'll look at headlines and different things that I remember talking about when I was doing daily radio for a long time the concussion awareness came to a point where you were like what what went on? What does the settlement entail? People started talking about watching games and feeling different. I remember a talk show host saying he felt complicit watching Sunday games. It's like, well, pick a different job then, man, because we kind of have to watch these

games and talk about them. So there was a movement of questioning what you were were asking where i think it went so far that people started diagnosing like anybody that was wobbling a bit on the sideline be like get them out of there as they were at home hitting send the ray rice situation in 2014 was ugly it was even more ugly because we got to see it and then added another layer of outrage with the way that was handled by the NFL, not getting the video. And let's face it, Goodell's just not a very good public speaker,

so when he speaks and at that point his popularity was declining anyway. You had the smaller headlines that weren't as big of a deal as Ray Rice and concussions, but learning about how the Department of Defense was paying millions of dollars using taxpayers' money to honor soldiers that were coming back, where all of us thought like, hey, what a cool thing the teams are doing. No, the NFL is actually getting paid for that. Then there was the pink gear in October for cancer awareness, crucial catch campaign that you found out some reports are saying only $11 were going to the American Cancer Society out of every $100 that were being made off of the products. You had bad owners, Dan Snyder being at the top of that list.

And you had real people, man, real people wondering if football would become extinct. And my counter to that was always, have you ever been to the South? And you could even argue, you know, the coastal elite thing gets thrown around probably a little bit too much. But I think going back to those times when I went back and read some of these articles, it was actually kind of accurate. I think there's a lot of people that grew up in non-football worlds starting to question football in a way that we felt like we were doing every single day. The national headlines for the NFL felt really negative for multiple seasons. Let's look at the ratings. Because if you wanted to take a look at just a few years of a chart, you could make an argument it was declining because it was declining. But I always thought it was a little misleading. It's like, all right,

so what are you going to do? You want to look at a chart? You want to look at 20 years? You want to look at 30 years? Oh, you want to look at three? Is that really telling us the truth? It may be true that the ratings went down, but does that mean it's actually a declining product people were suggesting could potentially be years ago? So I went back and looked at the ratings. Basically, it was like a 17 plus million average for a regular season game. So I went back and looked at the ratings. Basically, it was like a 17 plus million average for a regular season game. So add up all the regular season games, add up all the people that watched them. I looked at a bunch of different stats. You'd probably find some variation in some of the numbers, but I feel pretty good about these after checking them.

About 17 plus million viewers. So 17.9 million in 15-16, then 16.5 million in 16-17, to 15 million 2017-2018. So that three-year little chart, it's like, oh, look what's happening. Concussions, parents, on and on and on. The Kaepernick thing got played up by both people on the right and the left, right? On the left, it was, oh, I don't want to watch a league that would close a guy like Kaepernick out. Okay. And then on the right, they were looking at declining numbers saying,

oh, people are so sick of woke football and Kaepernick and all these different things. And like, look, it was the same thing as the Nike rant that I did years ago. Kaepernick signs with Nike. Stock goes up. People that love Kaepernick are like, see, told you.

Stock goes down the next fucking day. And the people on the other side are like, see, bad business to be in business with this guy, when all of it was fucking irrelevant, even more relevant than Nike taking a dip the day after Zion turned his ankle in one of their sneakers. None of that mattered. And that's what I actually think of a three-year chart for ratings. You're like, okay, that's concerning. That's a bit of a decline. That's a real number. But what does it actually mean? Because if you look and expand that chart out from that 15 million average a few years ago, three of the last four years, the NFL's back over 17 million viewers per game. There are some other numbers where you can be like record numbers here.

And the ratings game in itself is always a little weird because you're like, okay, but what's digital now? There's all these different places. Amazon maybe doesn't have the number that they thought they were going to have it, but they have it exclusively. So they're building something. So they're not worried about it right now. I could do it all day and go in circles with it. But the raw, the hard number, the average there showed a dip that people were using to cite a challenge to the NFL's dominance. When in fact, we might be asking ourselves, hey, people watching less TV and whatever

the numbers have recovered in another very short version of that chart. It shouldn't maybe be about that total number anymore, right? The most important thing should be, how are you doing in comparison to everybody else? Well, Nielsen reported that in 2022, 82 of the top 100 most watched broadcasts were NFL games. 82 of the top 100. 94 of the top 100 were sports events. Every time you look at the live rights,

you'll be like, it keeps going up, but some of the traditional ratings, are they going down? Maybe the traditional ratings don't matter anymore as long as you're just better than everybody else. That means you're still more valuable. The ratings numbers that we were even looking at may be a bit misguided because I was even looking back at Super Bowl numbers from decades ago. The shares that they got back then, that's never going to be approached ever again. Like an almost 50 share for the Super Bowl, that's never happening again. Maybe that's a good thing because we just have more options. So if you look at all the down years for the NFL, the negative PR years, and bake it all into the rating stuff where there was a slight dip, I think it's fair to say the NFL is just in a better spot right now.

Maybe we are collectively, I don't want to be insensitive to say over the concussion topic, but I don't think we talk about it the same way. I'm like, all right, we talked about it a lot. And the settlement was still kind of a joke. And we talked about it for a long time. And a lot of smart people said, I think some stupid shit. And I also think it's going to happen. And there's some violent stuff. Maybe we were all brought back to our sympathetic concern watching Tua last year and how bad that was. But did you change the channel? Did you think about watching something different the next Sunday? You probably didn't. And I don't think there's anything wrong with you for doing that. Snyder's gone. Sells his team for $6 billion for, again, what? A product

that maybe we were suggesting could be declining. Not the case there. There's always going to be another thing that happens with a player getting into trouble because that's the way society works. There's always going to be another thing that happens with a player getting into trouble because that's the way society works. So maybe it'll be outrage again packaged around whatever that is. And maybe that outrage is good. But what does it actually mean to the significance of the product? Probably not that much. Because I will always remind all of us in the moment, these things can seem so important. They can seem so significant.

And then you're just a few years removed and you go, I guess that wasn't really that big of a deal as far as the overall hit that a league or a business is going to take. Now, the question isn't about the NFL being better positioned because it is. I think as we talk about them getting through those years, I'd ask it this way. If we compare the NFL's problems moving forward to the NBA or baseball's, are they actually in a better spot? Baseball is not really worth talking a ton about. It's a regional sport. It's a great regional product. There's a numbers game, too, when you're comparing the NFL to total people sitting down and watching you. If you wanted to

add that number up for the NBA for the number of games that they have, and then add that number with baseball and all that, their argument would be, okay, you have less actual product. And if you add up all of our total numbers, they're massive numbers. Okay, that's fine. I mean, baseball season's really long. It's not for everybody. But when you look at the ratings in those regional cities, that's what that product is, and that's why it's successful nationally. It's gotten lapped. Basketball's biggest problem is what? Basketball's biggest problem is that its stars are miserable for the most part. I've always wondered if there'll be part of the audience that goes,

you know what? I'm a little sick of hearing about how pissed off these guys are making 40 million bucks a year and having life most of us are dream of having. I don't know. I don't know if that'll happen. Sometimes I can feel like the old guy could be like, he's mad. Oh, that guy wants out. Well, the NFL doesn't really have that problem. If you were to do this comparison, think of it this way. What if Joe Burrow gets to Cincinnati? He's his top pick. You're competing for championships already, right? You've already been to a Super Bowl and you're excited as hell. Like, man, we got a guy. If you're an NFL fan, if you're a Cincinnati fan of Joe Burrow, you never have to go. I hope he likes it here in six years. Now, I know specific to Joe Burrow, because he's an Ohio guy, high school there, father coached, that it's a little bit different. But if you remove the personal part of that, just the idea of the quarterback going to a franchise that's not a massive franchise, and the fans having to worry about whether or not he's going to like it and going to want to stay

there. He's just going to ask his way out. Imagine if Josh Allen, Josh Allen feels kind of synonymous with Buffalo now. We're a little used to it. It seems like he's a great fit, his personality, who he is as a guy, who that city is. It feels like it's just a perfect marriage, going to be there a long time. But imagine if we had the same principles of the NBA star for an NFL quarterback. And Josh Allen, after five years, is like, look, can't win here. Need a bigger market. Want to play for the Giants. And then you could have Giants fans being like, I can't believe the Bills won't just trade us Josh Allen for a tackle and a second round pick. What's wrong with those guys? They owe it to Josh Allen to trade them here. guys. They owe it to Josh Allen to trade him here. Dicks, you don't have that issue.

As much as this is an ongoing problem with the NBA star, doesn't want to play a ton, look, it can be a real turn-up. My friends still ask me how I like to leave this much. I joked one time, I was like, if I didn't love it, I'd probably hate it. But it also could be a generational thing. Then I want to bring up a story here. but it also could be a generational thing. Then I want to bring up a story here. Steve Jobs, when he launched Apple Music, the whole deal, iTunes, really the very beginning of it, you could buy all your music, right? 99 cents a song, you buy the albums, the whole deal.

And he didn't want to do streaming. Maybe the technology was not something he was excited about because his number one thing was people want to own their music. And it made sense. Older guy, loved buying records, sharing records, bringing records over. Somebody bring record over there, you own your music. As a guy who has eight milk crates full of CDs that I haven't seen in five years, I too loved going to buy music, own my music. And then once I got to iTunes, I was buying the albums because it didn't really make any sense to do it any other way. And then guess what? I can't even name the last album that I bought. Spotify obviously pays my check, but I would have Spotify if I didn't work for it. I haven't bought an album in forever. And there's some of you listening now that are younger,

like, well, you're aware of what a CD was. It's not that archaic, but the idea of owning the music just doesn't even make any sense to you. Why would you do that? It's much cheaper to go ahead and do it this way. Jobs was influenced by his own habit. And your habit, if you're younger, is doing it this way. And I'll think about that sometimes when I get upset about the next NBA guy that's wondering, how come I'm not getting my way? This is just the way it's supposed to work. And we're seeing a little pushback now with Harden and Lillard. Will the NBA, will this be a problem or would it actually be a generational thing where the younger fans are so used to it because it's what they grew up with that they're completely indifferent? Like, oh, that guy had us for trade?

Yeah, that's cool, whatever. It's what happens. It's not a big deal. So even if I think that's a bigger problem for the NBA than the NFL getting through all of their recent issues, which at the time were a much bigger deal than just stars asking for trades. The reason I bring all this stuff up,

it's not to remind you that the NFL is the most dominant sports product. I'm not sure if stars not wanting to play and asking for trades, the NBA, will that always be a bigger concern than what the next concern is from the NFL? I don't know. I can't predict the future on that one, but I do think it's a big problem for the NBA. The entire exercise here was this. It was just to remind all of us that suggesting the dominance could be challenged was a complete waste of time. Get your game day gear because college football is back and FanDuel wants you to join in on the fun. Right now, all customers get a no-sweat bet for week one. Just place a bet on any week one college football game and you get bonus bets back if you

don't win. Let's take a look at a couple here. Number 25, Iowa American Eats Farmers hosting Utah State. The line on this one is Iowa minus 23 and a half. I'm calling this one the Brian Ferentz over. The total for this one, 43 and a half, right? It can't be as bad as it was last year. So I don't know. It could also be 28 to nothing, but we'll go with the over 43 and a half. The other game that I took a little look at here, Boise State plus 14 and a half, Washington, the home team, number 10 in the country coming in.

Let's lay the 14.5 with the Huskies. Just a couple things. Not official plays. Just throwing them out there. You can bet on money lines, spreads, over-unders, and more. Just visit fanduel.com slash Ryan and kick off the college football season

with America's number one sportsbook. 21 and older and present in select states. Refund issued with non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This is a perfect time to have him.

Daniel Jeremiah, NFL Network, Move the Sticks podcast. We're ready for a full slate this weekend at college and getting ready for the NFL. What's up, man? Good to see you. Good to see you, buddy. Baseball season's been over for me for a while. So let's go football season here we go yeah look man it's not for lack of trying for the padres

i i love the roster every year and it starts and then i'm like anyway um that was talking baseball all right let's go in in the uh the youtube read that I have, I was looking at the Kenny Pickett stuff from the preseason. I was looking at the Steelers, six years without a playoff win, although still better records than you would realize to have that attached to the Steelers.

But that's not what you think of when you think Steelers football. And if they've actually figured it out, a quarterback here with Kenny Pickett, it changes the division. It changes long-term who the Steelers could be. I don't know that we're going to have the answer to that. Maybe it's mid-season. Maybe it's the end of this year. I know it's pre-season, but you're better at this

than I am. What do you think? I was out there. I went out to about six camps and Pittsburgh was one of them. Going out there, I left there thinking, okay, not only do I think they're good with Kenny Pickett, I think he's going to be not only do I think they're good with Kenny Pickett, I think he's going to be just fine. I think he's got a chance to be one of those 10 to 15 type quarterbacks, top 10, top 15 in that range. I don't know if the ceiling is up there with the other top dogs in the AFC, but plenty good enough. Ryan, they're so much better up front offensively. They kind of revamped the offensive line in one offseason.

so much better up front offensively. They kind of revamped the offensive line in one off season. They had a killer draft where they just got physical dudes like Keanu Benton on the interior of that defensive line as a stud. Herbig, you've seen what he's done as an edge rusher in the preseason. He's going to be their third rusher. He's going to roll in behind Watt Highsmith. You look at Washington at tight end. You're going to see a lot of big end, like you think about the, like, you're gonna see a lot of big time pass rushers and people are always like, okay, we got to book in the tackles and we'll try and take care of them that way.

Like he might be the rare exception of a tight end. Who's going to be able to help take away some of these pass rushers. I was there at camp. He had four reps against TJ. What? I think he won three out of the four pass pro like this dude, they're going to be able to play with him as like a sixth offensive lineman out This dude, they're going to be able to play with him as a sixth offensive lineman out there, and they're going to be really, really physical.

I'm kind of in on the Steelers right now. I came away from that thinking this is a really physical team. George Pickens has got a chance to be a top flight, number one wide out, and Pickett, I guess Moxie's kind of a cheeseball word, but there's a little something there. All right, let's, I don't know, I guess, you know, moxie's kind of a cheeseball word, but like he's, there's a little something there. All right. Let's talk Herbert because now he's, he's in this very unique group.

He is the awesome NBA player without a ring after eight years. And I realized that Justin Herbert's not been in the league that long, but that's, that's this weird lane that he's entering where it's like, oh, you guys all think he's this good, where I think that's actually pretty stupid. But Kellen Moore is there now. So what do we think? Well, I think, first of all, he's taking the steps, right? The year before, they lose the last game, the heartbreaker against the Raiders. They don't get into the playoffs. Last year, they get into the playoffs.

Everybody knows they blow the 27-point lead against Jacksonville. So it's still, at least it's climbing. And I think that next step is coming, and I think that the most underrated acquisition in the offseason was Kellen Moore. When you look at what he's done, just in the practices I've been to, I've been to a bunch of practices,

I obviously call their games, so I've been at the preseason games. They're not playing their guys, Ryan, but you can see the competent run game that they're going to have where they're stretching you horizontally. They're going to be downhill at times as well, making you defend the whole field in the run game. And then if you read Peter King's article on Monday, that interview with Staley and with Kellen, it talked about how they want to go fast. They're going to be able to live in 11 personnel.

They're going to be in three wideouts, which they have a really good trio of wideouts, with Austin Eckler in the backfield, with Rashawn Slater healthy and back in the mix. They've got a really good offensive line. And I think that with Herbert, with his ability to think, tempo is going to be great for him. And I think you'll see a lot of tempo from the Chargers this year. is going to be great for him. I think you'll see a lot of tempo from the Chargers this year. I sure did read Peter King's stupid argument about

paying Rossini in that article. I did not. I just read the Chargers portion, so I did not see the Rossini. What was that? I missed that. I went after Dana Rossini making a lot of money being an insider. Really? It was so fucking dumb.

I couldn't. I was like oh okay yeah that's bizarre anyway i'm biased because we have her on yeah she's a friend so yeah you know i'm i'm biased and you know he he's biased it's a long column i cherry pick so i i uh i went in there found what i needed uh there you do you got in you got out um i want to talk about san francisco the trade lance trade you know it's gonna go down as one of the all-time worst and that's You do. You got in, you got out. I want to talk about San Francisco. The Trey Lance trade, it's going to go down as one of the all-time worst. And that's fair. I feel for Trey on this one a little bit. We had Dilfron last year. It was staggering the way he was talking about it. He's like, I don't know how somebody can go that long playing that little football over this amount of time and then figure it out like what what

quarterback would be like you barely played in college then you had all this time off and then you got her and now he's not going to play unless dad gets her and even that would be asking a lot like who would who would turn out to be a good so if you have anything on lance feel free to throw it in there but i think there's a bigger conversation that goes around the track record uh especially at the top of the draft for San Francisco. But when you look at it, it's like, okay, cool. You're right. They've been bad at it. And they also play for like the NFC championship. It feels like every single year. So what do you want? What do you want? Because those guys, it can't feel like, unless you feel like it's an all Shanahan thing

and not with Lynch, but how do you look at what is a very successful organization which has had some bad hits here recently i think what it says is probably harder to build the culture than it is to draft good players and if you look at how they've been success they've kind of won because of the culture that they've built the philosophy that they have and that's been able to sustain through some misses through the draft i kind of almost look at it from a baseball sense like as somebody from there's a pottery fan i can relate to this of like what's the point of bragging that you have a top five farm system every year if your major league team stinks like what's the ultimate goal the ultimate goal is to win and they've been

able to do that so you can critique some of the decisions that have made some of the misses that they've had but they've built a machine that's able to withstand that. On Trey's thing, I'd love to get your take on it, but my take on it is I felt like the view from the organization was with the Garoppolo style of quarterback, there's a chance everything goes perfect, we can win a Super Bowl, but we need somebody to kind of paint outside the lines a little bit. So you're going to draft somebody that has that upside, that skill set. Shanahan's

going to have to tweak his offense and build something new around this quarterback, even though he has a long track record of success with one piece of software. And then he gets hurt. All of a sudden, now you get a chance to see Brock Purdy and Shanahan's going, wait a second, the old software still works. So why am I going to try and build something brand new that's unproven, untested

with a different style of quarterback? I feel bad for Trey because I feel like he got caught up in that where he didn't, due to his inability to stay healthy, he didn't really get a chance to show if that could have worked. But I think once Purdy had success and all of a sudden Shanahan's like, okay, well, this is Matt Ryan. This is the guys I've had success with throughout my entire career.

I've already got that. So why would I try and do something different? Did you watch much of the Deshaun Watson tape from last year? It was not good. What happened? I didn't think, and Orlovlovsky i think said this as well but when you when you watched him there was no urgency no twitch like he just was a very uh we use the term in scouting we talk about guys are monotone you know like everything was just kind of one speed there and that was from not only just his quickness and movement in the pocket, his ability to escape, but also just mentally.

He was not quick and sharp like he had been previously in his career. And that's probably the layoff, I guess, is a big part of that. I also don't know that that offense setup, that that fits him and what he's always done. Him being under center and turning his back to the defense is not something he's ever really done and never been a part of who he is or what he's always done. Him being under center and turning his back to the defense is not something he's ever really done and never been a part of who he is or what he is. But that's part of that run game

that they've had so much success with in Cleveland, so they're just going to drop him into that. I think it's a combination of those two things. I think he lost a little twitch, and then I don't know that he was super comfortable in that setup. What did you have on Richardson coming out of the draft? Because he's the week one starter, as you know.

Look, the traits, if you want to talk about an NBA phrase, it's ridiculous. His 50 play highlight is better than anybody in this draft and better than just about any quarterback you'll ever see in terms of those plays. It's just, to me, it's a long way to go just in terms of the pure pocket stuff. You saw it. I watched all the preseason snaps. You could see it. Off play action, RPOs, boots, even just straight play action deep in the pocket.

He's so much more comfortable, and it looks so much better. And then just pure drop back. It's a work in progress. His feet are all over the place. It's going to impact his accuracy. Um, you know, to me, he's going to, the best thing is he's going to be able to rely on his legs early and then hopefully buy himself time to be able to, to grow and improve as a pocket guy. But I was out there at training camp and saw him. I was like, Holy crap. He looks huge. And then I asked one of the coaches, I'm like, what's he weighing right now? They're like, oh, he weighed 255 this morning. And there's no fat on him. He is a big freaking dude, man.

So I think he's kind of built as Josh was early. He's not as advanced as Josh Allen was coming into the league as a passer. But I think the blueprint, that's the blueprint. Josh ran a lot, uh, his first couple of years and Richardson's gonna have to do the same thing. If we, if we expand this out more,

right. Um, you know, the Packers get a lot of credit for Rogers because he sat and because Rogers sat, we very predictably like, Oh, he was good because he sat.

And I would argue Rogers is going to be great no matter what he did. He was, he was good because he sat and i would argue rogers is going to be great no matter what he did he was he was going to figure it out um mahomes there's probably more people football people that i've talked to that would be like him sitting coming out of the texas tech setup with cliff like him sitting for a year was really beneficial for him to just kind of watch have a guy like alex smith who who knew the deal wasn't going to be a pain in the ass about it. And then you got Andy Reid and all that stuff. So like, I would allow that, right. Cause I still feel like it's like, if Jordan Love ends up being good, then it'll be like, oh, it's the Packer way. It's the Packer way. And then that's what everybody should be doing. But I still feel like, you know, for stuff

that's hard, the best way to get better at it is to do it, to do it before you're ready. I just truly believe that about a bunch of different things. And when it comes to quarterbacking, like you may not be ready, but you're going to be better off just getting out there. But there's, there's this line that is undetermined that none of us know the answer to of like, what would actually be the right thing? Because I think Richardson's going to look, just as you said,

there's going to be moments he's going to be fantastic, and I think there's going to be a ton that look terrible. Because that's what I saw at Florida. It's just what I saw. Just when I thought, I was like, wait, oh, no, he's that guy. And then I'd be like, oh, no, he isn't. I mean, that to me is the full scope of what you saw last season from him. And in the beginning of the year against Utah,

I was like, Oh wait, like he actually might, you know, there was just some of these things that he did. And there's enough of the ones that I think are the downside. So I feel like the NFL community, whatever,

however you want to frame that just looks at him differently than maybe somebody that watched them all through college where I was like, I don't know if this is going to work out or not. I know physically all the stuff you're talking about. I know about all the highlight stuff. I saw it all. But this is like when he, well, I shouldn't say when, because I don't know that. But if he were to fail, if he ends up in three years, it's like, no, he wasn't the guy. People will point to, well, they should have never done this when, you know, look, if your confidence is going to be shattered because you were playing quarterback before you were

supposed to, maybe you weren't strong enough to play the position long-term anyway. I just, I'm asking you for an answer to something that is individually based, but you worked it, you know, you sat in the rooms trying to figure out these decisions. Do you have an overall philosophy that you think, like, are know, you sat in the rooms trying to figure out these decisions. Do you have an overall philosophy that you think like, are you, are you against the idea of Richardson being the week one guy? Well, I think you, I think you answered the question with it being individualized. You know, I don't think it's one size fits all with these, with these guys. One of the things we've looked at was if you look at just the recent track record of guys that have been able to have relatively immediate success, they've either played a ton of ball in college where they were three, four-year starters.

But even if they haven't played a ton, like Burrow is a great example, they've still been in college four or five years. So they arrive as they're more mature and they've had more, not only just more game reps, more practice reps, even if they weren't the starter. So that's been a pretty good indicator. and we saw it obviously with Purdy. We saw it this preseason. DTR and Aiden O'Connell were the two best rookie quarterbacks because they're the oldest and they've played the most. So that's been a pretty good indicator. To me, the thing about Richardson is where I would be okay getting him out there is because he's so physical and you're going to be able to run him so much. If you told me that you're going to say, Anthony Richardson's not

going to run the ball and we're just going to throw the ball with him as a rookie. I'd say, he's not ready to play. You cannot put him out there. But I think there's a way that they can be competitive with him and ask less of him from that standpoint. I think that's the formula for him. And somebody that needs snaps, he needs to play, he needs to see defenses. There's a lot of footwork stuff that he's got to clean up. You can work on that on the practice field. I guess you could try and make the argument that,

well, if we can fix him mechanically from the waist down, then we'll put him in there. Maybe that would be better for him. I think there's a way you can do that and get him out there. What was the note that you had on him and Hartman, who's now the quarterback at Notre Dame? Yeah, I think Richardson is almost three years younger than Hartman. So the starting quarterback at Notre Dame is almost three years older

than the starting quarterback at the Indianapolis Colts, which is my favorite. It's my favorite social media thing to do, Ryan is there's nothing more entertaining than posting a fact with no opinion and then watch people lose their minds. Like literally I did not offer any opinion. This is just a simple fact put on there. And it's like, why? How can you say that? What's your agenda? What's your point? And I'm like, yeah, there is none. It's just that I thought it was kind of interesting that, you know, it's the quarterback in the Rams a little older and the quarterback for the Colts is a little younger.

That's it. I, too, found it interesting. That's why I brought it up. Cliff Clavin. Fun fact. That's it. That's all it is. Great, great recall on that one.

All right, let's keep going. I don't know if I want to get to the draft stuff yet. Any other NFL stuff leading into week one? Here's a question for you. I'll ask you one. One of the popular conversations is always like, who's the team that's most improved? Who's going to go from last to first?

Who's that team going to be? And it's like the Atlanta Falcons have been kind of the bu conversations is always like, who's the team that's most improved? Who's going to go from last to first? Like, who's that team going to be? And it's like the Atlanta Falcons have been kind of the buzzy team. I feel like that's the team that's getting a lot of attention. Obviously, that division always is moving around, flip-flopping. But, I mean, I know people are upset. They don't want to hear about them. They're overhyped, all that kind of stuff. But how can you look at it and say any team other than the Jets?

I don't know. I love that defense. I was watching the jets giants and i like i don't really love preseason football and even more so now like it just doesn't a lot of it doesn't really matter you're gonna find some stuff in there and i get it but i threw that game on going all right i'll watch a couple rogers series gary wilson's insane i mean that guy that what he did without rogers and what he's going to look like with him i can't wait to see that just because him because he's he's such a baller but there was a moment last season where i was watching the jets in a regular season game and i was like are you kidding me i was like pulling up a depth chart going like how is that

like they've got him and he's behind that dude or whatever and then watching him against the giants and we can get into all the preseason or whatever that they're nasty they've got an edge they've got him and he's behind that dude or whatever. And then watching him against the giants and we can get it all the preseason or whatever that they're nasty. They've got an edge. They've got athletes all over the place. They're all young. That Jets defense is going to be fun, man.

I think we'll go back 10 years from now. And you remember the way everybody would talk about the Seattle draft that built their, their run that they had. It was really that one draft that built it. That draft, dude, when you think about it, Sauce Gardner, if he's not there already, he's going to be the best corner in the league.

Garrett Wilson's got a chance to be whatever the number is, top three, top five. He's got a chance to be elite, elite receiver. Jermaine Johnson, his training camp stuff, his preseason stuff has been incredible like he was kind of the forgotten one last year he's kind of figured it out there's a ton of ability there he's going to be really good bryce hall could be the best running back in the nfl like that that draft is ridiculous and then when you look at him in the preseason again i always

say preseason is a liar i don't necessarily read into you know this determines whether you're gonna be good or not but i know when they run their threes out there and Bryce Huff is running with the threes, who if you go to the next-gen stat stuff, you can pull up all the numbers, has the second or third best getoff in the NFL. All these passers, they have six of them, edge rushers that they're going to roll out there with Quinton Williams on the inside. If you're watching a baseball game and you see a guy, a starter who's got to preserve himself and maybe he could throw 98, but he's got to throw 94 because he's got to get through six innings. None of these guys have to do that. They're going to all be able to play

anywhere from 20 to 40 snaps, rotate them all through, and they can throw fastballs the entire game. It was startling when you watch that Giants game. Is this sped up when I'm watching Will McDonald and Bryce Huff coming off the edge? And then you've got Jermaine Johnson. We haven't even seen Carl Lawson.

John Franklin Myers. Like, there's a million of them. That's... And it's funny because I went... I threw it on being like, you know you're not going to want to watch this for a while.

And then, next thing I know, like an hour had gone by because I was so excited and enamored. Like, you know, it's not like I'm rooting for the Jets or anything, but I was like, dude, this is a nasty group. I haven't said anything to Joe about it.

Sorry, I haven't said anything to him about it. But it reminded me of like the Ravens days when we were together there with that defense. I remember, do you remember when Michael Vick broke his leg in the preseason? Like there was kind of a legendary story about that where I don't think that we had played our starters, maybe the first or second week, but then we were going to play them in that game at Atlanta. And, and I think Ray Lewis went up to him before the game.

It's like, Hey dude, you need to protect yourself. Like you need to be careful. And I think, I don't know if it was a Darius Thomas or who it was, but he's like, they snapped his leg.

They were, they were so, we were so much faster and so much more physical than them. It was like, you know, he hate to say it, but like people are going to get hurt. Like this is, you're not meant to have that many guys that big, that fast. I love that Ravens defense. I, I remember, you know, sitting, it was the old church street tavern. And we've watched the games before I'd left Burlington and, you know, we'd watch the games

together and we were kind of like, Hey, are you guys watching what's happening in this game? Do you notice? And like the joke I always make about it is like, it always felt like there were 12 or 13 guys on the field for that defense. It's the best defense I've ever seen for one single season. I can't imagine I'm ever going to see a defense that was that good again. And so I'm like maybe a little generationally biased towards just watching it week in and week out and knowing the offense was terrible and going, they're still going to win. Like, how is this even possible? All right. You know what? Let me stay on that. Cause it was the last NFL thing I had. And then we'll do a couple of draft things before college. All right. When you talked about the culture with San Francisco, it gets thrown around all the time. Everybody has it as a goal.

Some people walk in the room and head up your organization. They have the kind of cachet. I think Sean Payton has enough of a resume, of a presence where he walks in and he can start saying, no, no, no, we're changing all this stuff. It doesn't mean it's always going to work out. But how does that actually happen behind the scenes? How does it happen where it's like we actually have this destination culture that everyone aspires to have? I think you know what kind of guys you want. So you're going to miss on the talent every now and then,

but those organizations like that never miss on the person. They might miss on the player every now and then. Um, but those, those organizations like that never miss on the person. They might, they might miss on the player every now and then, but they never miss on the person. I was talking to, uh, uh, assistant GM about this the other day.

We were talking about everybody uses the phrase, like when Baltimore, we had that thing called the STI, like speed, toughness instincts. Like those, those are the non-negotiables. Like you got to have those three qualities for us to,

to, to want to bring you in. We had to grade them on those three things and have a score. And I said, one of the things with scouts is they go out. Say you go in on your visit and you go into Arkansas and you ask him about player X and he goes, wow, yeah, he's a tough kid. A lot of scouts kind of take that and like, okay, he's tough. He checked that box. No, no, no. What are the examples? I need stories. Give me, give me examples of what that looks like, you know, so I can have something to go back and

tell my bosses and tell our, our, our coaches and personnel guys to help sell this guy of why he fits. And you'd be surprised sometimes they can't give you anything. So it's like, okay, well, he kind of just, he's just giving you the company line and all that kind of stuff and sometimes you'll get stuff where it's like holy crap like that guy's wired a little he's a little different um and i think that you don't make when you don't make exceptions on those things that's how you have your culture okay uh let's talk a couple draft guys here for college caleb williams going into this year in comparison with other guys that are, I mean, we're not talking about fighting for number one.

We're comparing Caleb Williams to other previous number ones. Where is he? Well, I still have luck as kind of the gold standard just because of everything he was doing at Stanford was so easy to translate to what he was going to be asked to do in the NFL. So I don't know that I'll ever get to the point where I have anybody that surpasses him. But as a talent, yeah, he's right there. I mean, he's more talented.

I think he's physically more talented than Trevor. And I love Trevor. I would put Trevor kind of right behind Andrew before this. I would say that Caleb doesn't have that size, the prototypical size there. But just in terms of all the different ways he can beat you, I would say he'd be behind Luck for me in number two. All right, what about Drake May?

I want to see more of Drake. I would love to see him. I would love to see both these guys in person. I haven't seen either of them in person throw. But Drake has everything. He, to me, feels kind of like Trevor light. Like he, there's a lot,

everything that Trevor Lawrence is a strength for Trevor Lawrence is a strength for Drake may. He just doesn't quite do it at that level yet. Now maybe he gets to that level this year, but I think that's kind of the target for him of what he, of what you hope he can be. I think, you know,

off of tape, I don't think his arm is quite as strong as Trevor's was, but everything else is, I mean, it's, he's knocking on the door. It's really freaking good, man. Yeah. I think the other thing, if you go back to like, you know, the personality thing, you never know if you're really going to get it right when you're on the outside, you know, whether it's people lying to you or bad information or the

kid himself can be just really good at convincing you somebody that he's not but it feels like the caleb williams stuff like he's interesting he's a little different but it seems like it resonates big time with the people that are around him and you know the physical stuff and all that stuff's great and you can still be a dick and be a really good quarterback. Aren't most of them? Yeah. Honestly, most of them kind of can be. But it feels like with Caleb, there's a real thing with his personality that, you know, if he were not as physically good, people may be a little different.

But it seems to work. You know, maybe it's an L.A. thing. Maybe it's an S.E. thing. But it feels like a positive. I bet you i'll bet you nickel he doesn't have uh any negative things on his fingernails this year that's my uh that's my prediction for for 23 that was like oh yeah that was like the only thing anybody had on him last year was like the silly thing he had about utah or whatever uh but that was about it yeah i mean whatever i you know a certain age you probably were like that's not great uh it's it's i would love to go in a

time machine by the way to when i first started scouting and we had the we had the old crusty scouts like the lifers who'd just been who still thought of the world like we were in 1955 who would literally talk about guys having tattoos and how, you know, how can we draft this guy? Ryan, he's got tattoos. Like we can't, this guy has get this two earrings, not one earring. He's got two earrings. Like this was stuff that you'd be at a school call and they would be talking about in there. And I'm like, gosh, I would give anything. Those guys, unfortunately, I'm sure have long since left us, but I would love to see, uh, he's paint, wait, he paints his fingernails. Like what, what is going on here? They, their heads would explode heads would explode yeah the tattoo thing especially like remember they made lebron cover his tattoos up

when he played in the high school game no i didn't know that yeah yeah he covered him up on his arms oh that's uh and now you're just like nobody i don't know there's just yeah a lot of the stuff is just takes time where you're like okay this thing that mattered to mattered to me before. I mean, hell people used to care about guys transferring. Like somebody was bringing somebody up to me the other day about being in a bunch of different high schools. I was like, you still care about that? I'm like, I got over that years ago. Yeah. Like who cares? It's old. Like that's, it used to be a red flag because somebody transferred a couple of times. Now it doesn't matter. And now it certainly doesn't matter at the college level either. Um, where is Marvin Harrison in comparison to other receivers then? Oh gosh. Um,

I'm trying to think, I mean, I, to me, when I first started was Calvin Johnson and that's just a different, he's going to be in his own class. You know, that's just different just because he's so big and so fast like it was um anyway i don't ever put anybody in that in that class but when i look at all the talented guys we've had recently come out and you know low then if i was loaded with these young guys yeah he's probably you know he's gonna end up if he keeps on the path he's on he's gonna end up with a higher grade and i love jamar chase um You know, I love Garrett Wilson. You know, obviously Justin Jefferson with what he's done.

He's going to have a higher grade than all those guys. Yeah, I don't think you're wrong there at all. I mean, the Georgia game was stupid. It was, it was like. There's another universe I'd love to live in where we could see what happens there. But didn't, didn't, didn't stay healthy. Last one. Let's stay with Georgia Bowers.

Is he a top five pick for you? You know what? It's going to be a really interesting study with him because I don't think he's real big. He's a freak. But I was talking to a scout that had been through there and everybody loves him and the tape's awesome. But they're like, he kind of looks more on the hoof

like a Dallas Clark type of tight end. He's not long arm. He's not going to be real tall. It doesn't have the prototype stuff. He's a great football player. But if Pitts went, what did Pitts go? Six? Something like that? Yeah. So he, I mean, if Pitts didn't go, if Pitts didn't go in the top five with the prototypical, uh, you know, size as well as somebody who was starting to progress as a blocker and had all the, you know, all the traits that he has, I don't know that we'll see him go in the top five. So I'd be telling you right now, I think he's a great football player. I'd be, I'd be shocked if he went in the top five. Yeah.

Pitts went four. Did he go four? Yeah. Yeah. So head of, uh, head of chase Waddle Waddell and who was the next receiver, Devontae. You're going to have the two quarterbacks minimum, maybe a third emerges, but two are going. So that's two spots that are gone.

You're going to have a team that's going to more than likely need a pass rusher or a tackle, which we have in this draft. So there's just not going to be, it's going to be a little bit of a tougher sell for a tight end that high, in my opinion. Enjoy week one of college football, and we'll talk to you again in the NFL season, man. Appreciate it. You're the best, dude. Appreciate it. We are supported by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube and YouTube TV. If you're a displaced fan,

NFL Sunday Ticket is an absolute must-have. And now that it's on YouTube and YouTube TV, it's easier than ever to keep up with all your favorite teams on Sunday afternoons. PFF-graded quarterback of any of the quarterbacks in the preseason. Yeah, I know it's preseason, but hell, if you don't know at that position, I'd rather have that than some of the other stuff I saw from guys out there. San Francisco's defense is going to be healthy. It never feels like it's as healthy as we want it to be, but it'll be healthy. And they're coming off a year where they were number one in yards allowed and scoring defense, so a top D there. I don't know if we get an answer to Pickett being the guy. I wouldn't even say that if he lit it up against San Francisco, but it's going to feel real good. And maybe we have that answer at mid season.

Maybe we have it at the end of the season, but it completely changes a Steelers team that felt like post Ben at that position. Like, is there really a guy they haven't won a playoff game in six years? It changes the division and it obviously changes the longterm thing for Pittsburgh, Philly at new England.

This is pretty simple. I expect Philly to still look really good. And honestly, I don't know how much they're going to be threatened when it comes to the playoffs in the NFC. But New England, normally this is the kind of Belichick game where people would be counting them out. Super Bowl contender last year in the Eagles, all this time to prep and everything going. But what if that gets ugly? There's no way the offense can be as bad as it was last year. It just feels like there's a better plan in place and things around Mac Jones, but this is kind of a prove-it-year for him. But if that were to get ugly, it's going to get ugly on the talk shows. Miami at LA, a bit of purgatory for this Rams roster. Really, it's about Tua, all of us wanting him to stay

healthy. When he was good last year, he wasn't just good. He was exceptional. He had six games of the QBR over 80, but I still feel like the long-term question on Tua hasn't been answered yet. It's just going to be about how he looks health-wise, maybe be more than just the stats that we saw from some of his biggest games. Finally, Anthony Richardson, the week one starter for the Colts. I usually have a theory on this, but it's a different application of a theory. It's like if the coach has been there a couple of years and he looks like he could be on the hot seat and they draft the top guy, he'll play the veteran, lose a bunch of games with him, and then have this hope for momentum with the young guy to carry over into him keeping his job for another year. I've seen it happen before.

It doesn't happen all the time. That's not really what's going on with the Colts. I'm surprised he's starting week one, but maybe they just want to get it over with and have him get his lumps because I still think getting better position is getting thrown out there as soon as you can. So there you go. Thanks to NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube and YouTube TV for sponsoring this segment. It truly is the best place to keep up with all of your favorite teams out of market Sunday afternoon games. And right now you get $50 off your subscription when you sign up at youtube.com slash Russillo, R-U-S-S-I-L-L-O. Terms and blackout restrictions apply. Offer ends 9-19.

I'm really excited about this. He's a legend. It's Tony Hawk, and he's going to hang out with us for a little bit. Okay. So I guess I could give you, I'm going to wait on the backstory of my first learning about you and everything, small New England town. It wasn't exactly the hotbed of skating, but for you to be out on the West coast, like, what was it like? Like, when did you first realize like, Hey, I'm actually pretty good at this? Well, I don't, I don't know if I had any sort of epiphany like that. I think, um, it was weird when I, when I really fell in love with skateboarding is when it was dying. with skateboarding is when it was dying the the quickest death of popularity that but i was so young i didn't realize that i couldn't see that that's what was happening i just didn't understand

that there were why skate parks were closing um i think that probably the biggest boost of of self-confidence i got and maybe some sort of realization is when Stacey Peralta expressed interest in me. He literally came over to say hello to me at an event. And I was riding for Dogtown at the time. And he just was like, Oh, how's everything going there? And I didn't know. I had no context or anything to compare it to. So how's it going? I don't know. They give me skateboards. That seems like that's all I know or that's all i want um but i remember it vividly because i was like why would he even bother to come say hello to me he doesn't i don't even think he knew who i was um and then um i i would say about maybe six months later he called me at home

to tell me that dogtown went out of business. Um, and then asked my interest level of, of writing for the Bones Brigade, um, which I just didn't even think I was on that level at all. I didn't think I was worthy of that, but obviously I was excited. So I would say somewhere around that time, probably getting on the Bones Brigade and having to prove myself is when I realized like maybe I am better at this or at the very least, people are appreciating what I do because I didn't have much validation then. people in your family that, that understood it did, you know, cause I know in the more traditional sports, it's like, Hey, the high school coach is here to watch the junior high kids and, you know, all that kind of stuff. I imagine it was probably less organized with skating. It was less organized. And there was, there was no, there was no promise or even goal of fame or fortune because it didn't exist. You know, even, even among the best, like the very, very

best skateboarders at the time, you're talking about 1980, 81, they weren't making a living. Um, so it was exciting. I mean, because I, I knew all of these, these, uh, players from the magazines and from going to the events. And so I was excited just to be in the mix, obviously. And that was a huge boost for me, but it, you know, to, to think of something like, Oh, they're recruiting. Like no one was recruiting. No, I mean, it was just such a different scene. Like I would go, I'll give you an example. I would go to Jacksonville, Florida, uh, when I was 14 or 13 to go to a skate event there, which was rare to travel to any skate event. They're usually in California and I would go there and I did okay. Like I'd make the finals, um, at the amateur event, maybe placed in the top five, sign some autographs and come home and be a ghost at, at, at school. No one cared about that. No one

was impressed by it. It was as if I was just going to a yo-yo competition. You mentioned your age, and I know the story a little bit, but Stacey reaches out. Can you explain your age and the level that Bones Brigade was considered in this world? was all was was still getting pieced together but the main players were steve caballero uh mike mcgill ray bones rodriguez um also they have jay smith and they were considered the best they were considered the best team i mean it was like there was no there was no comparison um no one else had a really cohesive team they had main main players. Um, but, but Powell brought it together with the bones brigade. And so when he asked me to be on the team, I, like I said, I just didn't feel like I was, I was worthy of that title even. And it probably gave me the most

incentive to step it up and prove my worth. How did the other guys treat you? Because, you know, a couple of years difference at that stage. They treated me like a rookie, like a little kid, which I was, I mean, I was, I was the youngest. Um, I was three years, two to three years younger than everyone else. Um, so they, you know, I got picked on like, but it was all harmless. Um, but it was, it was definitely like, I wasn't a threat to them or their stature. I was an amateur, you know, I, I had this really strange style.

I, I picked, I picked sort of avant-garde, well, avant-garde would be, would be a generous term back then. guard would be would be a generous term back then um i picked just really unique tricks that were more um that were more uh based on kind of spinning the board not aerial tricks because i didn't have the i didn't have the the build or the strength to get in the air so i was just doing all these what they called circus tricks that's literally what they call me they called me a circus freak if you fast forward a couple years um and you're now clearly establishing yourself as the best vert guy in the game. And then pal Peralta becomes this whole other thing. And I remember getting my first deck. I got a McGill. I couldn't do anything. I sucked. And I'm like sucked as being nice. I was terrible.

And it was, it was a bit of a phase for me, but I loved what it was. I love the t-shirts. I loved hearing about the guy that got the Swiss bearings. We're like, holy shit, how fast is he? And guys were like, super fast. It's busy. He's so much faster because he, because the bearings were just a different level. Um, and then, you know, the search for animal chin, just the, the creativity of these odd movies that you were making. And the number of times that I watched public domain because of the music because of the of the valeli street video part of it and of course like we all ended up fucking loving valeli but i just i don't know you know it depends you have to be a certain age to understand it but it it felt at one point like it was the most important thing in our lives.

And you were at the forefront of it after having this be this weird thing that no one cared about. What was that like? It was exciting. It was exciting to know that we were reaching anyone with what we were doing or that anyone's interested in it. I mean, even being in those videos felt experimental. No one was making making home videos back then this is like the first early days of vcrs so for stacy to be doing a video we didn't know who was going to see it we probably in our eyes thought okay they're going to show this at skate shops on repeat and maybe people will see it there but we didn't think that people would be owning them and playing them every day. We, as the skaters, Stacy had high hopes, obviously, but, um, but it was, uh, it was super fun. And I just remember, I mean,

the first time I ever got recognized, um, just out in the wild was because someone had, do you remember the intelligence reports Powell would send out? If you, if you were a bones brigade member, they would send out a little zine of everyone. It was called the intelligence report. And I remember the first time I ever got recognized in public was, hey, are you Tony Hawk? I said, yeah. You're like, who are you?

I go, I saw you in that intelligence report. And I was like, wait, what? I never imagined anything like that was going to happen to me but it but I just I guess I'm saying it's because of my connection to Powell that I even was considered on that level or seen or or known and the reason I want to kind of like stay in this is phase is that now all of a sudden you're all rock stars, like at the exact same time, because it's not just about everybody's individual style, the street guys, you know, and then the vert guys. And then I remember even guys having, what was it? Kevin's freestyle board, which was like, as soon as you got that, you were like, all right, now I really don't know

what I'm doing, but I, I don't like, I wonder if, you know, when you're young and now there's money and all this stuff, was it, man, this is incredible what we're doing for the sport all at the same time. Or like it predictably usually happens when there's money and attention and all that kind of stuff. Like, was it, was it harmonious or was there more rivalry to it? Cause you guys are so young too. I wouldn't say rivalry. I would say, um, we definitely weren't, we weren't considering ourselves pioneers in

that sense where we were shaping something. We were just excited to be doing it. We were excited to have an audience for it. We were excited to get to travel. We were, yeah, I mean, we didn't get into skating to be rich or famous. So suddenly we have some version of that and it felt like the ultimate dream because people were paying us to do what we love to doing and suddenly we were more celebrated for it than than shunned for it which to be to grow up in the in the late 70s early 80s as a skateboarder was to be was to be um made fun of you know what i mean it was it was not the it was it be, um, made fun of, you know what I mean? It was, it was not the, it was, it was not that the Rosie heyday, it was like, I got bullied at school. Cause I was a

skateboarder. I used to hide my skateboard in the bushes before school. So no one knew that I actually did skate. Um, cause I got so hassled and I'm on a team and i'm making videos you know what i mean it was a really strange paradox but uh when we would go out on the road you know we were living the dream we were meeting girls and we're making money and we had hotel rooms and and it just seemed like this free-for-all but i will say that to his credit to stacy proles credit, the crew that he put together remain the most solid. And we all, we all did the work. Do you know what I mean? We didn't get caught up in it. Like the, the we're not the behind the music stories. Like we're all, I,

I literally have, I saw, um, I skated with Lance mountain yesterday. He and I skated together, like on vert. We're still doing it. Like we still love it. And we're still just as passionate about it. And we didn't lose ourselves in any of that, um, excess. So, and I believe that's because Stacey, he was, you know, not picking people, not just for their talents, but for their commitment. That's incredible. Like you got to blew me away with that. I mean, first of all, Lance Mountain's one of the greatest names of all time. Um, but you know, you, you put seven teenagers in a hotel room that aren't good at anything. It's going to be a problem.

And it's chaos, but also just that, you know, plenty of other, of our peers lost themselves in it. And, you know, some had tragic endings and some just kind of partied themselves out of the scene. And, and, um, I think that I, I recognized that early on that I saw people getting caught up in it and they would lose their skillset. And that was paramount to all of what I was doing. I never wanted to, I always wanted to get better and I was not going to risk doing anything that was going to compromise my skating. Well, as you mentioned, it still wasn't cool. And then it was cool again, but then it was weird. And it prepped you for the next phase of when it wasn't cool all over again, which I guess

you had to live through twice. I think there's some comparison that maybe like comic books, you know, like i like comic books and then i got a license you know and it and i think skateboarding has some parallels with that uh i was surprised when i went through and looked at the vanity fair interview that you do which is really good that after all the success i mean it's it's a matter of the dollars and maybe us from the outside not understanding how much you were actually making or how much you're actually worth but it was looking pretty rough there again um Um, what, by the time you were, I don't know your age, but at that time, what, like 1990, early nineties? Uh, yeah. When I was in my early twenties, it was, it was very

challenging to make a living. And I was, I, by that time I was caught up in, in not in the success, but I was caught up in thinking that this was never going to end. So I was living as freely as I thought I could. Meaning that when things started to come crashing down, I had two mortgages. And I had my first child on the way. And I was just head first into reality where it's like, wait a second, this isn't forever. What do I do now?

And I gotta, I gotta, I gotta make it happen. I gotta make something happen. I got, I have now a family to take care of. And, and, um, that's when she got real, you know? Um, but I did everything I could to hustle and, and make ends meet and take odd jobs. I mean, I was doing doing like i was the special guest at rollerblade exhibitions so you're the best i mean at that point are you still considered the best vert skater in the world yeah but but the what title is that right well it just feels like

i have a rule if you're if you're the best in the world at something you should probably not be opening a rollerblading show it's like king of the dunces it's like no one you know it was more it was more a novelty skate vert skating had become a novelty if you were progressing at vert skating you had a very finite audience for that and it was the ones who were participating in it um and i'm thankful like i love i don't i don't look back on those years and regret i'm thankful that i that i did persevere and that i that I did have some sort of support system in terms of like-minded skaters. Um, but like I said, you know, I, and, and those years were tricky. Like I would get called for commercials and they'd be like, oh, you're too old because

the, the stereotype is that it's kids that are skaters. So once you're 18, you're, you're too old. So I would, I would get hired as a consultant on Hollywood commercials, telling them what's possible when they bring in a young skater. That happened a lot. So what saved it? Um, I think there was sort of a perfect storm of, well, street skating for sure brought skateboarding around in terms of evolution and how you could use the urban landscape as a skate park.

So we didn't need, we no longer needed skate parks in general. I mean, we needed them. I, I, I advocate for them. I stand by them. But at the time it was like well all we have are these stairs and handrails how do we use them um and so that brought skateboarding sort of a resurgence of of technique because suddenly people were like oh i don't have to go but ride a giant ramp or a big bowl to to make it happen um then i would say x games was a big part of that 1995 that's when i all started

um people finally saw skateboarding on tv and there was some legitimacy factor that that they recognized where it was like oh these these kids or these skaters are truly devoted to this and truly skilled at it. They're talented. They're not just doing it because they're being rebels. And then our video game was released in 99. I feel like that's when we reached a tipping point of skateboarding is here to stay.

And there is a fan base for it that doesn't necessarily do it actively. Yeah. The video game was huge. I mean, I hadn't skated in forever and I couldn't put the thing down and it was just a perfect exploration of the world and it just worked. And you know, those kinds of games, but it was also a gateway, like for, for someone younger, it was a gateway for them to actually try skating. Yeah, no, it's a great point. It's a great point. I mean, that's actually my middle brother ended up being pretty good. And, you know, I don't know what he spent more time on, his actual board or the controller.

Was there ever a story with the video game where, because I have some friends, there'll be some thought. Like, I have one friend, I'm not going to name him, but he was offered this hosting gig of this show years and years ago. And he actually said to them, like, hey, is this going to be one of those stupid shows that does this, this, and this, kind of like kidding around? And the producer was like, that's exactly what we're going to do. And he was like, okay. And they were like, well, screw this guy. He's out. Huge mistake. Lost a lot of money. Was there ever any time in figuring out the video game for you where you were like, maybe this isn't going to work or maybe I'm not interested because clearly

it's one of the most successful things you could have done. Um, uh, do you mean in terms of when I was working with Neversoft or Activision or, um, it's just a moment where you think like something this big where it's like, ah, I don't think this is actually going to happen because without it, I think it's a different story. Well, I did, I did go down the line with a PC programmer who had an idea for a skate game. He had a very crude engine with a skater kind of going in and out of bowls. And it was the best thing I saw. I mean, since skater day on, on Commodore 64. So I was in, I was like, well, you get something, you know what I mean? And then we went pitching different studios and different publishers and everyone was just shutting the door on our face. It was just like, why would anyone, no one even skates. Why would anyone play a skate game?

That was a, that was a quote. That was a quote from Midway actually. And so he gave up and then not long after that i got a call from i actually got a call from two different uh studios who were both working on uh video games and which was amazing um and i had to choose uh and when i saw what activision was working on i was that was It just, it felt so right. Um, that I didn't think it would be a great success outside of skating, but I did think it would inspire skaters to play, to buy PlayStations. That was it. And that was enough for me. I want to bring up something with the evolution of the tricks, uh, that certainly you're a big

part in the history books. Um those that are listening and even I was going through it, it felt a bit like reading about the Roman Empire where it was like, well, the first 540, but this version of the 540 and this all. So we all understand the 360 and at the first time it must've been amazing. You are on the record books of like what the most pure first 720. Is that correct? Yeah. Right. Okay. Now we're talking about three plus rotations. And the reason I bring this up is because I talk basketball all the time. And for whatever reason, NBA players seem to think that whoever's playing it now sucks way worse

compared to the guys that used to play. And I always point to track and field. It's like, if they're constantly outperforming the previous generation. Oh, for sure. And then when I look at skaters and I go, if they keep getting better and better and pushing it more and more, we can pick any of the sports. For whatever reason, basketball has a really hard time accepting that the evolution of an athlete is going in a direction away from them. So do you ever, do skaters ever, do you and Lance Mountain sit around and go, Do you ever, do skaters ever, do you and Lance Mountain sit around and go, no, these guys with the thinner boards, you know, with the different trucks, like now they can do stuff, but they could never skate in our day.

That must, I mean, I think I already know the answer, but does that ever happen? Does it happen that we are, we think it can't get any further, you mean? No, do you look at today's guys suggesting they're somewhat not on your level in the past? Because that's what what it is. Like, let's put it this way. Lance and I were skating yesterday. He's 59. I'm 55. We were skating with Reese Nelson, who is right outside my window right now. She's 10. And she's, she's amazing. And she has been doing tricks in the last few months that have never been done. Never been done. Never, you know, we didn't even consider it because we didn't have any of those tools or, or the idea that this was possible. And she's asking me pointers on... She wants to learn how to do a roast beef 540. I've done the only roast beef 540, as far as I know. And she's about to learn it.

And I just feel like that's... I didn't start skating until I was her age. She's learning tricks now that were just created in a recent decade. Do you know what I mean? I like it to all of that to me is unreal, but ultimately I'm super thankful that I get to not just witness it, but, but be part of it. Um, so I mean, the answer is, is we evolve and, you know, people are building from the foundation that, that, you know, they stand on the backs of giants or whatever you want to say.

But, um, there was a foundation that was just kept beginning built over, over the last four decades or so, and they continue to build on it. And it's amazing um and also there's something to be said for it it's not easier but it seems more tangible to do something that you know has already been done because it is possible right because when you did the first 720 it was it was, it was basically a mistake, right? Um, yeah, kind of. Yeah. Uh, that was in 1985. Um, we were skating this ramp that was bigger than any other ramp we've ridden. And I was going way higher than ever. So when I would do a three 60, I would start to over-rotate. And then one day I just said, maybe I can just keep it going. i i did it i learned it within a day um it took 85 it took

almost 14 years to figure out how to do a 900 so that was a whole different level of difficulty um but i guess that's my point like i didn't learn 900 till i was 31 years old that was 1999 um nowadays i have literally seen kids in Japan that only been skiing a couple of years that are 10 years old doing nine hundreds because they know that's possible. And they also know that that's where they need to get to if they want to make a name for themselves or to make any success, or if they want to further what we've been doing. So it's sort of a, it's, it's a collective evolution. Is Lance still throwing down the hand plants all over the place?

Lance? Uh, yeah, well, it's funny. He's asked that cause he, he came here about six months ago and he was trying to do frontside inference and my ramp was slippery back then. And he, he almost slid out on one. So he didn't do it. He actually came, I have a new surface and he did one yesterday. That's on one. So he didn't do it. He actually came, I have a new surface and he did one yesterday. That's between me and you or whoever's watching, um, which was to him, his redemption. And, uh, I I'm pretty sure he's shooting a video part right now,

like a literal, a whole thing of, of just Lance. And I can tell that front side, it's going to be a highlight. That's awesome, man. A huge smile on my face. Just, you know, thinking back to being like 12 or 13 and watching those videos and arguing about who we all liked and who was better and who was cooler and everything. And look, uh, you know, we met over this, but I'm happy for you. I'm happy for all your success, uh, because you've always been super grounded about it and you've been awesome in so many interviews that I've seen over the years. So I really appreciate the time today. And I also want to make sure I give you a chance to plug Hawk versus Wolf podcast where podcasts are available. I looked at your guest list. Um, your booker deserves a raise.

You guys are hitting home runs on the guests left to right. I'll tell you, I'll tell you the, I'd say that the, the, uh, sort of bigger names that you're seeing on there. Um, that's from my, uh, contact list over the years and at some point i said okay if we're really going to make a go at this podcast i'm pulling out the big guns and i'm going to call in favors from people that i've either sent skateboards to or that i've done favors for and that's how you that's how you have those uh big names on there but we have a lot of fun we're you know it's it's very light-hearted and my co-host jason's hilarious and we love to we love to uh give parallels to our experiences growing up as skaters because he was also a pro skater um he has since gone into mma and comedy um which are more intertwined than you

would imagine and uh we have a blast so uh yeah please tune in we've had some great i would say if you're gonna go straight to the top of one of our interviews, go to the Seth Rogen interview. All right. Yeah, no, I'm going to check it out because I was, I was going through it this morning in preparation for that. And I was like, man, I'm actually jealous. Like, there you go. But it makes sense that Tony Hawk would have a pretty good Rolodex of potential guests with how long you've been in the spotlight. We do. We have all the Bones Brigade members and Rodney's on there too. So we, we, we make sure to cover all bases. That's awesome, man.

Thanks again. I appreciate it. Okay, cool. Thank you. It is time now for our second attempt at winning the Ryan Rosillo show here with Kyle and Saruti. The Alliance Parlay,

what we named it last week, 1-0. Good week, gang. Good week. What's up? So we're back at it now. How's everybody feeling? Feeling good. I mean, shout out to Canal for throwing cold water on my thing immediately. Shout out to Steve for just being like, I don't know. This is what Kyle wants to do. I just felt like it was a gut

play. I felt like Hawaii needed a win. And while they didn't win the game, it was definitely, they definitely covered. So I just, I feel like I've solved it. That's all that matters. I didn like Hawaii needed a win. And while they didn't win the game, it was definitely, they definitely covered. So I just, I feel like I've solved it. That's all that matters. I didn't mean to be disrespectful. I just, I didn't have a take on, I didn't have a take on Hawaii plus, yeah, 17 and a half. And so I was just like,

I don't know, I don't have a take. And then Danny kind of came in and was like, I don't like it. But then he didn't like it because he was boys with somebody on Vanderbilt, right? So that's kind of a bad reason to be against it. But yeah, but I mean, your reason was you just thought Hawaii needed a W in week zero. So there you go. Real hard-hitting gambling stuff here. Yeah, right.

I mean, Cannell just kind of across the board didn't like anything, although he did like the under, which got a little dicey there with Notre Dame. How about Notre Dame's running backs? My God. And I do love myself some Sam Hartman, but Navy's a mess. In Canel's defense, he did like my pick,

which was the over in the USC game. He liked the first half spread, though, because he gave another pick out there, too. And I don't know if that hit or not.

I don't think it did. It was 17, I think, and a half. Anyway. Who wants to go first? Why don't I go first? Only because my pick is a Canel sort of thing.

I'm going to take TCU minus 20.5 against everyone's darling Colorado and Deion Sanders. And this pick is specifically for my guy Danny Canel because I'm going to have his back. I'll get to that in a second. I mean, Colorado was 1-11 last year. Are they going to be that much better just because Deion's there? Maybe, but I kind of doubt it.

And I know TCU's lost some guys, but I like this TCU team. But I'm really taking this in case because did you see Cannell and Deion get into it on Twitter a little bit? I didn't. I missed it. Oh, you didn't see this. Okay, so basically Deion, somebody asked Deion, like, hey, do you consider yourself a null or something? He's like, I'm not a null. I'm not a null.

I didn't graduate from Florida State. I went to, you know, I graduated from HBC college, HBCU. And all the Florida State people were mad, obviously, because he's like, well, we gave you the platform. Like you're known as primetime. You did that at Florida State. What do you mean you're not a null? So Danny tweeted basically saying,

he didn't even add him, but he tweeted at him basically saying, this is dumb. And I thought it was kind of dumb. Like you went to Florida State. People know you went to Florida State. And then Dion went back at him and got mad and said basically keep my name out your mouth so this is my this is my defend danny cannell pick i'm taking tcu tcu's gonna beat the crap out of uh out of colorado i don't care that deon's there minus 115 he did he say keep your name out of my mouth to Danny? He said, ain't no, my man, ain't nobody let me be me.

I was him and still is. Your jersey only get retired if you're a dog and one of the greatest ever. And I was. Basically, no. But he basically says, Danny, quietly shut the hell up. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if there's some history there with Deion and Florida State where he'd want to separate himself. I mean, sometimes the school stuff can get a little weird and we don't always know the full story of it,

where you're like, oh no, this thing happened or whatever. And I understand Danny's point, but poor Danny. Well, isn't it because isn't Deion just kind of a little salty because he didn't get the Florida State job? Isn't that kind of probably maybe what this is about? That's pretty reductive, don't you think? I don't know. I'm not in the know. I'm not an insider. I don't know. It might exactly be that, but it would be, I think, a little tough to get one of the elite

Power 5 program gigs with the timeline. I mean, look, Dion was on pregame shows saying I should get the Atlanta Falcons head coaching job. Okay?

So, I mean, that was years ago. And, you know, people were like, meh, you know. But look, in the NBA, you can get a head coaching gig and never have coached anywhere before. And credit to Dion going to HBCU and then getting a Power 5 gig. Unfortunately, one of the worst Power 5 gigs you can get right now. I don't know if Colorado can ever be back to what it was because they used to just get all these dudes in from California.

They didn't even get to the California schools. And I think some of the people were like, oh, we don't care anymore. We'll just keep them here. All right. Okay. So there's your first pick. I like that one.

All right, Kyle. Yeah. So what I've got is LSU at Florida State. Shout out to Florida State. Shout out to my brother at Florida State and the interesting roommate situation he's got going down there. It's LSU at Florida State.

I'm taking Florida State plus two and a half at minus 105. It should be an exciting game. They already think it's going to be pretty close. So there you go. So wait, are you money line? Are you playing the spread? I'm playing the spread. All right.

The focus is supposed to be ranked games, ranked teams this weekend. So give me a little taste to Indiana. Wait, they're not ranked, Ryan. Yep. But they're getting 29 and a half at home against number three, Ohio state. Uh, normally I feel like growing up and be like, why don't you just bet all the big programs those first weeks? Cause they destroy everybody. Um, so I'm kind of going against my original premise those first couple of weeks, the free money weeks where you just bet the favorites

and lay all those points because it gets really scary when you're on the other side of it. But between the quarterback situation in Ohio State, it'll be the first games for these guys and the tackle situation. Can Indiana keep it within 29 and a half? I say yes. There you go. Plus 29 and a half for the Hoosiers. Before we get to life advice, we have a live show announcement. Look out, Ole Miss. We are going to one of the few

SEC towns that I haven't been to yet. There's four that I haven't been to. Oxford, Mississippi. We'll be live from the Lyric Oxford on Friday. That's September 29th at 2 p.m. local time. You can grab your tickets now at thelyricoxford.com. That's thelyricoxford.com. Again, lyricoxford.com.

Join us while we preview the LSU Ole Miss game, kick off the weekend, and dish out some life advice. I believe Van is joining me for this one. Van Lathan on the road. He's not in this announcement that I'm reading for the first time out loud, which you can probably tell that I'm reading it for the first time ever. I'm reading it going, what am I doing?

Yeah, this is always the plan. So we didn't know who's official and now people are learning that going to Ole Miss is really tough to get flights and then to actually be able to stay there. It doesn't look like anybody's going to be able to stay there. So join us while we preview the LSU Ole Miss game.

As I've already said that line again, we'll be live at the Lyric in Oxford, Mississippi on Friday, September 29th at two, you can get your tickets at LyricOxford.com. All right. So this is just a huge ad for the Lyric. Thank you for letting us show up there.

That's the plan. Yeah, Kyle and I will be in Memphis. So I think we're going to take the, I think it's an hour drive. So it seems like it's a little longer than that, plan. Yeah, Kyle and I will be in Memphis. I think it's an hour drive. I heard it's a little longer than that, Steve. Road trip. Let's go.

Ryan won't be there, though. But road trip for the boys minus Ryan. I probably will have to fly in to Memphis, but I don't want to stay in Memphis. But I don't know. We'll see. Grind City? You don't want to hang out?

That's nothing against Memphis, but if I go to an Ole Miss game or if I go to Ole Miss LSU on Saturday night, the last thing I want to be dealing with is how do I get back to Memphis? Get on the van. The van leaves at 10 PM sharp. I'm excited though. I always have a great time at these.

This is the first time the frolic guys looked at the flights and they were like, wait, what is it? So this would be the first time I don't have a frolic gang with me. I feel like I'm going in there a little bit. That's too bad. The frolic room guys, like roadies for R'm going in there a little bit. That's too bad. That is too bad.

The frolic room guys are like roadies for Rosillo's Pod now. They just show up to wherever. They go to all the lot shows. They got a table right by the back. Yeah. I'm glad we don't have to worry about that for this one. Let me just say that out loud. No insurance liabilities.

Yeah. All right. Well, we'll see you, Ole Miss. Let's do it. In a month. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. G-g-g-g-unit, huh, Kyle?

Last night. What a time. Really, I tell you, you what a time tell us a little about your time um well i was texting tate as folks were coming out and uh lots of people buster rhymes started the show that was pretty cool wow um yeah break your neck doesn't seem to have the same flair i once did, but it was still great to hear. You went to this last time. You went to this concert? Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, I was there in the Spotify box. Shout out. Brought some of the Frolic Room cronies. Where is the... Okay, here's the text today. All right. So, so far, I said we've already got Tony Ayo, Busta, Nas, YG, DaBaby,

Jeremiah, still got it, Chris Brown, and then Tyga. So quite a lineup. 50 Cent, he brings the people out. Alexa, play Jeremiah. Yeah, did you wear anything? Yeah, I had a G-Unit shirt on. And a lot of people had like, you know, 50s merch has been objectively pretty bad, I think, over the last 10 years. But, you know, I found, I went to eBay to find that one.

And that was like the one I had back in the day. And that was like, you know, the big, beefy, long-arm t-shirt heavyweight. In their defense, the style of that era was just rough in general, if we're being honest. I wouldn't say I agree with that at all. Wow. I was at a bar, the Tom's Watch Bar, right by Crypto there. And that's where pretty much everybody who was going to the 50 show went. And man, I tell you, it was so great. Huge polos with the weird, I don't know, like 20 stripes on it of different colors.

Any rockware? Didn't see rockware. Fat Farm? FUBU? It was, no. I mean, some of the were stuff I couldn't really tell I did see some Echo Echo

I had a couple Echo shirts back in the day when I thought it was cool yeah gotta forget about Eblens Miss Eblens Eblens was a great spot for a while there

not many G units I think those were just like you know if you held on to them you did and I think a lot of people didn't so I felt I got a lot of compliments

I think it was Michael Crabtree that came to do the car wash before the draft and he brought like 17 different Rock-A-Wear polos. And then he put them in the makeup room and then demanded that they were like ironed or steamed. And then when he would do the next one, he would throw in a different one or something like that. There were not a ton of huge Crabtree fans after him, but he was a young kid.

He was a young kid back then. All right. 50 changed like 12 times. Yeah, he did. So that was great and again we got the bulletproof vests and bucket hats and i was just great so really just dumping on that style i would say i don't know that there's many styles you look back on like there's gonna be a stretch when i look back and be like why were you wearing those shorts every day it's gonna happen uh i don't know i feel like there are parts of like the 90s aesthetic that we look back because now all that stuff's kind of coming back like the starter jackets uh you know something like that like you know like the pat parts of like the 90s aesthetic that we look back because now all that stuff's kind of coming back like the starter jackets uh you know something like that like you know like

the patagonia like weird pattern stuff like that's kind of coming like the colorful stuff 80s is kind of rough i think people like the 70s style mostly and then you get back in like the 20s and 30s when everyone's wearing suits and you know big breasted you know whatever uh i didn't like the ed hardy and the phone clips i didn't like that at all yeah i mean i i just I, I just look back and I'm like, my pants were just, why did I wear that big pants that big? Cause the shirts weren't even that big. You know, I was wearing like a small shirt and like giant pants and just, I look like an idiot.

It's going to come back though. There'll be a five X t-shirt. No, it will. It already kind of is. Yeah. I think it's kind of sneaking in. Yeah. Right.

Um, okay. All right. Let's get to the emails. Life advice, life advice, RR at gmail.com. All right. right. My friend is about to be married in May. Let's call her Ashley. Names have been changed. Great. Thank you. We have a very tight-knit group. All of our wives get along very well. We see each other quite a bit as families. Three of us, including myself and Adam, work together and have for most of our adult lives. When we met Ashley for the first time, it went smooth and we saw no issues with her.

Ashley and my wife are both horse girls. They seemed to bond over it that night and a few after this. Fast forward a few months and they're living together. He complains constantly of her laying in bed for 16 plus hours a day and bringing numerous animals into their RV. into their RV. Well, I can imagine the 16 hours a day in a bed normally is a red flag, but in an RV,

sometimes it's more likely, right? Where's she going to go? Yeah. Ooh, the animal count isn't great though. They're bringing, she keeps bringing animals in. They're currently at six dogs

and three horses in four months. What? They're living in an RV and she's brought six dogs in the mix and three horses. How do you bring a horse in an RV? Well, it's not in the RV, I imagine it's outside,

but like it's their problem. Got it. It's all three horses. They're living in an RV on his land while saving up for a house. While she was out of town about two months ago, one of the dogs died from heat exposure

while my friend was building a fence for the horses. Wow. That's sad. Okay. Story we heard is he let the dog outside but didn't notice the South Texas heat is unforgiving for a small dog. She understandably lost her shit on him for not seeing the dog follow him outside. What wasn't understandable was getting in one of our group chats with the wives in it to basically complain about how bad my friend is, screenshot included. Do we read the screenshot? I think we do. to me i told him how to care for her please help us i'm literally in tears tear emoji this isn't the first time either he ignores me like i don't matter well wait a minute this isn't the first

time either following he killed my dog is a poorly structured paragraph christopher right um let me see here so basically she's saying this isn't the first time either meaning he ignores her yeah um he's not a serial dog murderer that we know of right so then she's like how do i tell this other girl her dog is dead because of his lack of care and irresponsibility and then one of the wives chimed in and was like, I understand you're upset, but this is very inappropriate to send to a group chat with everyone. Trash. Not a ton of sympathy.

That was the first text back. Okay. I'm not excusing Adam for allowing the dog outside if he couldn't look out for it. However, I'm contending that it's a situation that should have never been brought to our friend group. Upon getting the text, I text my friend and ask what that was all about. And he informed me that she was just trying to hurt him.

My wife responded telling her it was inappropriate to bring it up to us. I personally wouldn't have said anything, but my wife tends to act first, think later. Ashley left the group chat immediately and removed a few of us from her Facebook page. Oddly enough, my wife was not one of the ones she removed. No, they bonded over horses. Things calmed down a bit, and the friend group was resumed as normal, albeit without her coming around.

Adam asked one day if we hated her. I told him no, which was a lie in regards to our wives and the friends group. I told him that we understood that she was upset and she had every right to be upset with him. He fucked up. We, at least the men in the group, understood that she was upset and made a bad call including us in their problems he agreed but said it would take her a while to come back around the group because she's not comfortable being around us anymore i inquired and he tells me that she doesn't want to be around my wife in particular he then proceeds to tell me that ashley believes that adam and my wife have a thing for each other. This girl fucking sucks.

I mean, I don't even care about the rest of the email, but I immediately started laughing cause I thought he was joking. His face proved otherwise. I asked why she thought that. And he says that someone told her, but she can't remember who I'm honestly not worried that she's on to something here. If this context is needed,

it can be provided, but that would require a lot more reading than you probably want to do. All right. So our guy's not worried about any sort of situation last week adam shows up late to work for the third time that week and obviously looks stressed i ask what's wrong and he tells uh me that he and ashley have been fighting all week because they're living with his grandmother and all she has done was lay in bed all week while adam tended to the animals after working 60 plus hours a week for more context they had a move-in with grandmother while the ac was being replaced in the rv in the middle of him venting he tells me his grandmother told him he would never be happy with her unless he's happy being a slave

i asked i asked what the rest of his family, I don't know how to say things, right? Grandmas don't care. Fuck counting down, you know, they're like, I'm not,

how long am I going to be around? I asked what the rest of his family thinks of her. And he says, they agree with grandma. All this leads me to the question. Should I get involved in telling me she cut his losses and leave the toxic relationship he's stuck in? If your answer is yes,

uh, should I make it a solo mission or bring in another buddy within the friend group as friend groups tend to be we all have extensively talked about how he should leave her so i know i'm not alone in my feelings toward her before i met my wife he sat me down and told me i was making a mistake when i was getting ready to pop the question to my toxic ex for that alone. I feel eternally grateful and any advice is appreciated. All right. Well, look, you just solved your own problem right there. The guy did it for you. So most of the times when we don't do it for the other guy, it's because it's really fucking awkward. And there's a really good chance, probably better than 50% that it's going to go bad. Because as I point out all the time,

you don't know what it's like when it's just them. And even though it may be terrible when it's just them, because it's terrible when it's everybody, there's just something about when you're in love and when you care. And sometimes it's a physical thing. Sometimes that person is filling this void, which is better than just having the void, even if it's the wrong person. It can go really, really wrong. In this case, the fact that he did the exact same thing for you that you're suggesting you should do for him, then you have the all-time green light to go ahead and do this. If you want to bring a second dude in, that might

work. It seems like you're really close. This guy was your best man. Regarding her, look, that's really sad about the dog, but here's my tip. If you're saving to move into a house, don't add eight fucking animals in four months to your situation when you're living in an RV. If that's her deal and she's accusing your wife of also liking him, like there's a lot of evidence here that's in your favor. I hope they don't get married. And I met him three minutes ago in an email yeah this is sad this is like the family doesn't like her your friends all feel bad for you uh i think you absolutely have to say something if if only because that it was said it's way easier to not and you know you you wonder what's gonna happen after you you know cross that plane

and it's like yeah we all hated her it's like when somebody breaks up with his you know girlfriend and you're like oh thank god dude we fucking hated her and then two weeks later he's like yeah we worked it out so you know i was thinking about bringing her to the barbecue sunday and everyone just was like yeah man we hated her for months and whatever so but i think you i think ryan's right you have to do it if only because he did it for you and it doesn't sound like they're getting married right it's they're just saving up he didn't say anything that right i guess they're saving up for a life change right um no no no i think you should mention this uh is now engaged to be married in may now engaged yeah then you the clock started i think the clock is still yeah There's still enough time to get out. He's already the,

she's already the person that won't come around the group. Nine animals. Sorry. I mean, nine animals is one thing. Three of them being horses is an entirely different deal. Like, you know,

Kyle's got what? Five rabbits. Like they're rabbits. I don't know. It's like, it's not the end of the world. That's 2.25 animals a month. Some good math out of you.

Yeah, this has gotten dry, man. I think you... Maybe he's just waiting, too, for somebody to just... I don't know. Because sometimes I think you get down these rows and you're like, I don't know, this is just my life, right? This is what it's going to be. And you just kind of need somebody to be like, dude, you're better than this. You got to...

Your self-esteem needs to get up. You're not... You're worth more than what she's providing you and your life's gonna suck sometimes you just need someone to tell you that so he may even just like kind of know it subconsciously but needs the push so you're you would be doing nothing wrong at all by telling him tell him you're telling the truth it's not it's not gonna work your life's gonna be miserable so you're you're telling the truth if he somehow hates you because of that, then I don't, I think you could live with yourself, but I don't,

I don't think he will. Yeah. Cause she's already not like thinking you guys are all good. She's already kind of excommunicated herself and is talking shit about people and, and making weird, like, Oh,

there's a thing between these two people. Like this person is already out. It's not like that dynamic changes at all. Yeah. By the way, I love, I love in the, in the time that she said,

I think my fiance and your wife have a thing going. And then when she was called on it, she was like, I can't remember who said it. Like come up with a better, like just say, I think it, or I'm not giving up my source. She just, she pretended she didn't know the origin. Like, oh, it was just in pay. pretended she didn't know the origin. Like, oh, it was just in pay.

I forget. I forget the day. Look, we don't need to spend a ton of time on this. You know, look, the dog thing sucks. Sorry about the dog,

but it is not. I just can't get over the nine animals in four months. Like we're saving for a house. No, you're not. You thought you were. You're saving for a house. No, you're not. You thought you were saving for the, you're starting to rescue. It's saving for the inevitable bed.

Right. Imagine if they had a house together, this place kind of stinks. Yeah. No, you get used to it. You get used to it. The moose shit this time of year is is the worst this will be the worst it

ever gets but usually some of the colder months once you get through august start getting september you don't notice it as much when the ground freezes oh jesus okay um you poor bastard good luck the poor guy 60 hours a week to come home she's in bed shoveling shit meet roxy it's a rescue all right uh this one's pretty good it's it's not It's not that new of a... The title of it's Confronting a Man Who Sent Me a Dick Pic. So obviously, Kyle, as soon as you see that, I know why you sent it over. I mean, how do you not? So I was expecting a little bit more, but it actually all works out. 30 years old, 5'11", also six feet. Like what you did there, 195, 220 bench, recently lifting again, training for a sprint. I just ask sometimes with you guys that will land on these flat numbers, like are you putting two and a halves on?

I just think it's worth asking you know um whatever all right backstory i worked with uh i oh wait um i need to tell a guy that no one likes him let's call him craig backstory i worked with craig in 2015 when we were occasionally crossing paths in the office he seemed all right at the time but we were in a large East Coast city. He didn't cross paths outside of work. Fast forward to 2020, we ran into each other on a run and luck would have it, we happened to move into the same neighborhood

in a completely different city, a thousand miles away. How exciting. Craig and I started to hang out a bit more. We have a few similar interests, but chalk it up to convenience of the fact this guy's incredibly pushy and unapologetically outgoing.

I had a large friend group already in this new city. Craig admittedly did not. He would pretty aggressively network at every event I invited him to, to the point where he would meet my friends one time and call them immediately the next day to arrange weird mandates or try to find out what the next hang would be. This is actually awesome. I'm in. If friends ghosted him or just naturally bought time, Craig would walk to my house unannounced on numerous occasions and ask me why people wouldn't respond to him. Jesus.

I know a girl in an RV that we can introduce him to. This got very out of hand. He would be at nearly every event when I didn't invite him. Turns out all my friends got weird vibes from this guy. And I found out they would invite him because they thought I was close to them. And Craig would tell everyone we were super close. Craig became pretty unbearable. He has a massive ego, lies about pointless things, and is the biggest storytopper I've ever met. When he pops into my house uninvited, he'll ask me one question, then cut off my answer and talk

uninterrupted and bullshit for 30 minutes. I'm actually like tearing up laughing at this. And this shows about your front door unannounced? God damn. God damn. There's a certain age where you have to tell people you're coming over, okay? Yes.

And it's usually about five years earlier than when you realize it. On multiple occasions, I make up that I have some errand to run so that I can physically leave the house to get them out. I know, I know, confront the guy. I have at least five times. I'm pretty fine with confrontation, but this one is tricky. I ignored him for two or three months. No text responses. I got to stop laughing. I'm just, I can't read this thing. Didn't answer the phone. Then when I ran into him, he calls me out for ghosting him. Fair. And for a while, I would deflect too much and say, look, man, I have a lot going on

in a big friend group here, and I can only do so much. It's not my fault if my friends don't get back to you. This happened numerous times, but then he lied about his plans to break up with a girl for months. He would talk shit on his girlfriend so much, but stay with her. So I confronted it and told him, I thought it was very lame how he says one thing about his girlfriend, but does another thing. Um, but pretty consistently because of this, I don't trust him. He brought up my friends ghosting him. And I said, you're all adults. I don't know what to tell you. Fast forward. I don't see him for six months. He even

moved 20 minutes outside of town. I thought I was in the clear. Then Craig shows up unannounced, walked in, lays on my couch, and proceeds to stay for 30 minutes telling me about his last six months and how fantastic it's been with a new group of friends and the multiple girls he's dating. I get about 10 words in. Proceed to say, good for you, glad you're doing well, but you have to go because I'm busy and we're on our way. I think we're in the clear on our own paths, but now once again, he is texting me once a week, inviting me to a new house for barbecue, grab beers, workout, get lunch, you name it.

If his story topping and self-aggrandizing weren't enough, here's the final straw. I didn't see him for a long time and randomly received a photo of this man's pubes. He was on a bike ride, ate shit, and cut up to his dick and pubes. He decides that I'm the guy she that he should text the picture of i responded what the fuck and that was it i ran into him week later the weeks later and said thanks for the photo you fucking weirdo why did you send that to me he laughed it off and still tries to hang with me once a week all right what should i do option one continue ignoring him the risk here is he continues

hitting me up my friends and everyone continue to feel obligated to get back to him even though i've made it clear i'm not close to them it's kind of the point that friends uh ignore him as well but seem to always tell me when he hits them up like craig is my responsibility even though we're adults i think it's just content for you guys at this point that's yeah it's just a joke really like guess right guess who came around yesterday? I tried to lay on my couch. Option two, call him out again more aggressively. The problem here is there's nothing that wrong with the guy. I don't know, dude, you kind of brought up a lot of stuff. San's the dick pic, which I already called him on. He just isn't trustworthy. He's very,

very self-conscious, rubs me and everyone the wrong way for some gut reason. Do I tell him that's why we don't like him? It feels pretty messed up to say, I don't like you. I don't know exactly why. It's just you. Yeah, that's a tough one. I don't think there's a lot of people on the planet that are able to pull that off. Option three, suck it up and hang out with him. For reference, I've tried this previously for months. I came to terms that maybe I'm the asshole and that he means well. No, no, I think you're fine on that one. I'll put in some effort and hang with him. And every single time he'll do some odd shit and I lose it, refuse to ever hang out with him again. Okay. Look, I mean, it's really simple for all of us to say, Hey, just cut it off. You're going to talk to him. You're going to tell him he sucks,

right? But that's not what you came here. There's something you said in the email that kind of tells me where you may have made a mistake. Granted, if somebody shows up to your house now, you've known him this long, and he starts up a conversation, most people would then have the conversation, right? But if you're sitting there debating him on his girlfriend and like, hey, I don't like that you did this, he thinks you're friends. Cause you're actually having some conversations with some real substance to him at times. And even if it's happening because you're forced into him, you're providing some substance. So he's probably talking to like, he's going around telling everybody how close you are and you can't stand him. You might be the only guy that's ever put up with him. And that's why he's so desperate to hang on to you. You're the most valuable guy in this guy's adult social life.

He can't lose you, and that's why he works so hard to keep you in the mix, because everybody else, when they got a whiff of it, was like, fuck off. You could also send a dick pic back to him. Just nothing. I wouldn't recommend that. Just outweird him?

Yeah, just outweird him? You want to get weird? Let's get weird. And then when he calls you out be like whatever dude not a big deal sounds like you need to start showing up to his place i don't know deal with it um you could i mean i think the one that you should start with is stop showing up my house now it sounds like he's 20 minutes away now so it's not as much of an issue as it was before but look you already know the answer one. I would just make sure whenever you have those conversations, offer up nothing of depth, shallow end all the time. But it doesn't

matter. He's not going to go away because he's so annoying that nobody else has put up with this. And you've been nice enough to kind of put up with it. And now it's gone on for this long that you're, I mean, other than screaming in his face, I hate your guts. Never talk to me again, which most people aren't going to do to each other. You don't, the reason you're in this is that you're actually so valuable to a guy that's that everybody else would never be friends with. Yeah. I think you should, branches have been to share in him.

I think you really should do that, but maybe you should use that every time he comes by. Well, I mean, but the part before that, but like, just be like, I don't have a great reason.

I just, I just don't want to deal with that. I love that scene. That scene in that movie is so great. I just don't like, I don't want to hang out with you anymore. You don't want to hang out. We've done it all.

We've said it all. Yeah. I mean, we had this guy in college that would ride around on his bike and wanted to like show up to every pickup in intramural sports and he was always just like shouting you guys fucking suck at this like we would even be playing like you know beer pong outside in our little shared driveway and he'd just show up and just would be like you guys fucking suck you guys are terrible i would it's like nobody invited you to play you're just trying to you're trying to get involved because of you have some weird and like not good social skills and you think this is how you guys want to interact with you and we would tell him we'd be like get the fuck out of here rich get away we don't want you know we don't want you around and still he would come around he was

relentless so you could even if you do banshees him, maybe he'll just be like, ah, come on. So you probably can't do that with this guy. It sounds like he's been told multiple times he's not sensitive enough to where, like if you drop a hint, he'll be like, oh, maybe I'm coming on too strong. He might not even take it if you explicitly say, don't come around here anymore, man.

Look, don't call me. Don't ask why other people are aren't following through on plans just like that might not even work yeah i think you just got outweared him like i said before uh show up to his place unannounced send him weird pictures wait a minute you can't show up to his house because then he's like it's fine we're finally connecting no well i mean it can't get any worse now i i like right here he already thinks that's cool so i just be an asshole to him and see if he kind of gets the because otherwise yeah like you're the only other option is to just basically be a dick to him and tell him you don't want to hang out anymore so either you're at the point where it's no fun for you

anymore and you're just like i'm done i gotta get rid of this guy or you can have a little bit of fun and kind of like give him a taste of his own medicine i don't know you could invite him out to the group and have everyone i mean this is pretty mean girl stuff but just everyone everyone in the group just like hey tonight it's code red we're telling me sucks every three minutes every story sucks everything's a lie i don't believe you that's not true you're the worst bad shirt just have him have the worst night he's ever had but the thing is there's a pretty good chance he's gonna be like this was awesome we should do this again because he's ever had. But the thing is, there's a pretty good chance he's going to be like, this was awesome. We should do this again. Because he's going to be so psyched to have buddies to hang out with.

He doesn't have anyone to hang out with. All right? That's a problem. And you've been the only... You are that water source in a desert. Right. Good luck.

This is a tough one. All right. Big thanks to Kyle and Steve and Mike on today's pod. The Ryan Russillo podcast. We're here. Spotify. Must be 21 and older in present select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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