The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Replacing Brady, Plus Americans in the NBL and Shaq Stories With Matt Walsh

Episode Date: July 14, 2020

Russillo looks at Cam Newton’s conversation with Odell Beckham Jr., Victor Cruz, and Todd Gurley about replacing Tom Brady (03:00), before New Zealand Breakers CEO and former NBA player Matt Walsh joins the show to discuss R.J. Hampton’s play in the NBL (12:00), Matt’s time on the Heat with Shaq (21:45), and getting banned from the G League (26:30). Lastly, Russillo wraps up the show with Life Advice (44:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan risullo podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like basketball the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected, like guys already breaking quarantine. And it seems like some of it may just be a mistake. For others, I don't know, maybe somebody didn't care. We have two guys that already broke it, and then they get thrown back into quarantining. So get a teammate who can actually not break the rules

and not have to be sent into a 10-day quarantine like we've seen with a couple players. But again, not the the world not a huge deal both marginal well one's a nice role player the other one barely plays again get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected talk to a state farm agent today today's plan is pretty simple we're gonna have matt walsh on who is the ceo of the new zealand breakers and the reason I want to have him on is I want to ask about the league and how they feel about having young players come in and then kind of bailing on the season. We saw that with RJ Hampton.

He had an injury, LaMelo, moving on. But I'd imagine he's going to tell me it's still worth it because it's just the awareness, the brand awareness, for the clubs and the league in general. So I want to talk to him about that. He played overseas a million different places, and he's a guy I've followed for a while. So we'll check in with him.

Two NBA games to his career. We have one life advice that we'll do at the end, and I'm just going to keep doing these at the end of the pods until we probably crank back up into the sports here. But I don't want to do an all-life advice pod because I don't think that that's going to be – that's pretty much like, hey, we're still had nothing. So he did five questions from dudes on emails here.

But we have people actually wanting to follow up after we've read their email. So I don't know how interesting that is. I found it interesting. So maybe I'll share it with you a little bit at the end. But I did want to start with a couple of couple things off of the cam newton conversation and cam in a sit down with odell and todd girley and victor cruz they were kind of doing a video post um cam was asked straight up he was like you know how do you feel about going to new england he said quote you know who you're coming after i'm like yeah great what he was what he is he is great needs

no talking about it. That needs no even talking about it. But one thing about it though, coach Josh McDaniels, you're able to call some of the stuff that you ain't been able to call. Now, uh, you're getting a dog, you're getting one of these ticked off dogs. Again, this is cam describing coming up after Brady working McDaniels and then talking about himself because you're getting a ticked off dog. I'm looking at the schedule. I'm like, who are we playing? The team passing me. Okay. The team passing me. They've could have came and got me. Um, noon also said that when his agent reached out about Belichick, he had said, you know, what, what's up with Belichick? Like, how will he and I mesh now?

The reason I bring this up, cause I thought it was really good. I thought it was really self-aware from cam. Um, because following Brady isn't exactly anything you would want to do. You wouldn't set out to be like, hey, who's been there for 20 years and been one of the best quarterbacks of all time, arguably the most successful as far as winning. And I have said this and I believe in this. This is not something where I thought about earlier is. So I'll share with you. I'm not 100% convinced of it, but I feel like if you're trying to do something a little different or you're taking a bit more of a risk, you're starting, you know, you want to get in with a new company that's not as established. And it can always be older people that, you know, are not of the mindset. They're probably a little bit more risk averse as they're older. It could be relatives and people that care about you and don't want to see you struggle as much and would like you just to have security.

And they know, hey, your next job, 20, 30 years, where most of you listen to that, you'd probably be horrified. But I always felt like older people in particular always gave me worse advice because they didn't really want to take the kind of risks that maybe I was willing to take. Even getting into sports, it was just, oh, that's stupid. There's no money in that. And I was like, well, I don't know. Yeah, you're right. It can take a really long time, but if it's something you're good at, maybe it'll work out for you. I remember one guy in particular was just dumping on the whole thing, being like, now just sell insurance, sell insurance. And I was like, I'm 25, I'm 26. I think I'm going to go ahead and take this risk. Now, when I look at sports, the thing we have always accepted, we've accepted this as some kind of rule that you don't

want to be the person that follows the great person. And it can happen with players like Tom Brady and Cam Newton, but it also happens with coaches. They say this all the time about coaches. Hey, you want to be the guy that follows that guy. Does anyone want to try to live up to Nick Saban's legacy in Alabama after Saban decides at some point to call it quits? No, you wouldn't say, hey, I want to try to compete with somebody that you're not going to be better than. Whoever replaces Saban in Alabama, this isn't exactly breaking news,

that person's never going to be better than Nick Saban. The person that replaces Coach K at Duke, there is literally no chance that next coach is going to be as good as Coach K or as successful. And it's not going to be. And on top of the fact that, I mean, Saban didn't build Alabama, but K essentially built Duke. But if you're a coach that loves what Duke is and knows that they can win and compete with anyone and you have the support of an administration, isn't it okay to go, well, yeah, I know I'm not going to be Coach Kay, but I'm going to go ahead and coach at Duke because I love Duke.

yeah, I know I'm not going to be Coach K, but I'm going to go ahead and coach at Duke because I love Duke. Duke is one of the handful of jobs anyone in my industry would want. But I think people would tell you, and I think guys that do what I do would be like, you don't want to do that. So what are you supposed to do? Go somewhere else where they're not as equipped to win? Go somewhere else, less historic? Somewhere that's actually harder to recruit? It's the same thing with Alabama. Whoever replaces Saban will know, unless there's some massive SEC correction coming that I can't see happening anytime soon. And yes, things are cyclical. So when people say the Pac-12 is toast forever, and it does look really bad, and you look at some of the talent coming in and the talent coming out, I'm like, all right, it doesn't look great now. But I just never really buy into the stopping of any of the cyclical success.

At some point, the SEC is not going to be the best conference, but does that mean that Alabama is not going to be equipped to win football games? How does that happen? The fact that Alabama was actually bad now seems impossible with Saban, but if you're the right coach, and guess what? Alabama is going to hire somebody, although that whole game becomes really interesting because it was almost Rich Rodriguez. But if you're someone that's really successful and you're pretty confident in your own abilities, would you listen to guys like me that do this for a living being like, ah, that's just too much of a hassle. You're going to be held to some standard. It's going to be impossible. Like, why would you want to do that to yourself? That just seems like

a massive waste of time. Don't do that. I don't know. I feel like that's kind of loser mentality. And that's what brings me back to Cam Newton. Because we could do the whole thing with all of these different legendary college coaches in basketball and football. We could do it to some degree. I don't think people really care as much. You know, peak Phil Jackson, like Tim Floyd was like, good, sign me up. You know, I don't care how much is the check. Krause has been recruiting me here for years anyway.

Sign me up. I don't care how much is the check. Kraus has been recruiting me here for years anyway. But if you're Cam, would you rather go somewhere else that's a total question mark, a coach that's maybe on the hot seat, or go to a place like New England that you know is always going to be competing? And I still think, despite all the concerns about the roster this year, I don't know. The tanking thing, I never believed because it's not true. 6-10 just seems low for any Belichick team. And there's really no one else in the AFC East that's established themselves enough where you think, okay,

New England's clearly behind all of these other teams. So if you're Cam, you could go, well, I don't want to follow Brady. That's going to suck. And then do what? Go to the Bears? Go to the Bears and run an offense right now that we're still not sure what's going to happen? Be replacing Trubisky, who, you know,

it's probably over for Trubisky, and I know what they've put into Foles, so, you know, maybe pre-Foles, Cam could have gone there if he wanted to. I don't know if Chicago had interest in him. But there are other teams. There's other better examples in Chicago of, like, why would you go? I want to go to a worse organization. I want to play for a worse coach. I want to go set up where it's probably a lot

harder for me to succeed just because I don't want to deal with the hassle of following up a legend. Everyone in New England knows Cam Newton isn't Brady. No one expects him to have some kind of run, some second half of his career run that's going to be an AFC title game basically every other year of your career. I don't think anyone is really expecting that. I think if you're a New England fan, what you're seeing here is an opportunity with a healthy Cam to be much better at that position than you are right now with Hoyer and Stidham. But I love that Cam's mentality is, okay, yeah, I get it. I'm aware of it just like the rest of you guys are aware of it. But to have that be the deciding factor for me to not go play for Belichick makes no sense. And I

think that's one of those things where there's always this gap, the separation between people that actually play sports and those of us that talk about it. I love that he did it, and I love that he's aware, and I love that he doesn't really care. Hey, let's talk a little Miller Lite here. During this time of social distancing, connecting with friends over beer today looks pretty different, right? So as the original Lite beer, Miller Lite has always been there to bring people together in real life through Miller Time.

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Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Okay, I've wanted to talk to this guy for a while. I have all these questions about new zealand basketball his career as well you know him as matt walsh is the ceo of the new zealand breakers um played at florida two games in the nba right oh yeah big time career well look you're in you're in basketball reference so at least it's in there so uh you play the two games you know you end up becoming an overseas guy throughout your entire you know your playing career and then you end up running this

team in new zealand how did that transition happen knowing that okay you know eventually like i'm never coming back to the nba and i gotta think about the rest of my life yeah i recently found out that i'm the only player in n history that is 100% from the field goal percentage and 0% free throw percentage. So I'm one for one from the field and 0 for two from the foul line. You missed both free throws. Missed both free throws. Sat on the bench for two hours, came in at the end of the game, missed two free throws short. And that was the last two shots I ever took in the NBA.

So, yeah, I went on to play in Europe a bunch and then I retired and I was very fortunate that one of my business partners now, Jason Levian, who at the time, yeah, so owned the Grizzlies and the Sixers and now DC United, Swansea City gave me an opportunity to see what it was like in the sports ownership management space. I retired in 2015. I was playing in Turkey at the time. I had a pretty good year. I led the league in scoring. I was an all-star. I was only 31, but I was just kind of at the point where I was ready to do something else. And Jason opened the door and gave me the opportunity to learn from him. This opportunity came through a mutual friend who had worked for the club as a consultant for a number of years,

someone I think you'll know, Jonathan Cavoni, who works for ESPN. He said, you should take a look at this. This league is about to take off. I came out here, fell in love with the country, did some due diligence on the team, and decided that this was what I wanted to do for the next few years. When you're playing overseas and you're lighting it up, are you always thinking, maybe I'm going to have a chance? I mean, obviously, at that point, you're probably overseas and you're lighting it up are you always thinking maybe i'm going to have a chance i mean obviously at that point you're probably a better player i'm sure you're just a better basketball player mature and that kind of stuff where you're thinking you know let

me go back to the nba or do you know you could have even made a team like how do you go through all that knowing that your goal is probably still to come back home 100 until you take your last dribble you're thinking up you know you never know and that's just i think the nature of it and i think that's what made me so competitive but um yeah i mean you're thinking, oh, you never know. And that's just, I think, the nature of it. And I think that's what made me so competitive. But yeah, I mean, you're always thinking that the reality is my time had passed. And I realized that when I was that age, 31. So when I realized that and the grind of going overseas every year, it was something I was just ready to move on. But there's certainly in the back of your head, you're always thinking, you never know who's watching, even though nobody's watching.

When I have seen – this is really the biggest thing that I wanted to ask you about. I remember being at ESPN when RJ Hampton makes his announcement that he's going to play for you guys. Lomelo ends up on another team. announcement that he's going to play for you guys lamello ends up on another team and when i watched especially more lamello not so much rj rj was looked like he had to kind of fit in with your guys and wasn't getting a ton of minutes lamello got to do basically whatever he wanted which i have to imagine at some point some of the veteran players like this sucks um and the team wasn't very good but do you is the australian basketball. But do you, is the Australian Basketball League,

like, are you okay with the arrangement to have kids come in, make a splash, not even play the full season, kind of use you as something going against the one and done, knowing that you're getting all of this attention? Like, is that, is it worth it, even though it's certainly not an ideal basketball arrangement? We're certainly conscious of it.

And I think what people need to remember is last year was the first year of the program. So we were the first team to ever secure a next star. I worked with the Hampton family for six months to sell them on the fact that I thought this was the best place for him to develop. RJ moved over here with his family, wonderful family. And like you said said two totally different circumstances right our lamello lamello was playing 38 minutes putting up triple doubles shooting you know seven for 27 in games supreme talent and he got to show what he can do and rj

you know we wanted we were in a position where we wanted to win we had scotty hopson former nba player really high level guys are basically the whole New Zealand national team are the locals here. So we had a little bit different scenario. I think we learned a lot on both sides. Overall, I would do it 100 times out of 100 again. Like I said, we learned a lot. We had never dealt with a talent like RJ. It was only my second year in ownership. So there were some ups and some downs. Obviously, he ended up leaving a little bit early because he was injured. But we're conscious of it. We know that these kids are using the NBL as a platform and a springboard to get to the NBA.

And for us, it's about trying to find that balance of finding players who can help us win. We're going to bring great attention to the league and the team and also be a contributor, a positive contributor to the team. So what were some of the challenges to somebody like RJ? Well, look, he was supremely talented, but he, him and his family moved here first time living out of the state. So much pressure, you know, he was the first one to commit even above,

you know, LaMelo has all the Instagram followers and everything, but RJ was the first one who basically said, I can go to school. I've got the grades, but I'm going to pass up Kansas. I'm going to pass up Duke and I'm going to go play in New Zealand. So he had a lot of pressure on him. And I don't know that it was challenges. It was just, like I said, a learning process for us, because we were very conscious that his ultimate goal is to get to the NBA. He was also wanted to win, wanted to contribute, but it's not easy for, especially at that position, at the point guard position to come in. Our league is filled with imports that are borderline NBA players, Bryce Cotton, Casper Ware, Jerome Randall, all guys that have played in the NBA that are coming at these guys next. And it's a tough situation. And

we knew there was going to be some ups and downs on the court and off the court. And there was, but overall, like I said, it was a great experience. RJ is a great kid, great family. And we're looking forward to him playing in the NBA for a lot of years and being part of his story. So you'll, you'll do this again, no matter like you, you, are you consciously recruiting then for the next kid that doesn't now granted the draft rule is going to change here. So maybe, maybe this doesn't happen anymore, but like the fact that you would work with the family for that long, I didn't know that you had been selling them on that for months and months. So how does that, how does that change for you at all?

Um, as you guys try to figure that out? Yeah, we're certainly, we're having conversations now with guys. Obviously the whole COVID thing is throwing a wrench in, in everyone's plans because nobody knows what the NCAA season is going to look like. Um, we've been very fortunate here. We're COVID free. So I feel like I live two lives. My Twitter life, where I'm looking and seeing all the stuff

that's going on worldwide, and then our life here is just normal. There's no COVID. But we're recruiting players, and I think we'll have a next star next year assuming we can get them in the country, especially with what's going on. Yeah, yeah. The New Zealand COVID stats are the envy of everyone else. Although I do argue with some of my friends when they when they'll bring up like it's for it's under five million people. And it's not exactly the center of the international like traveling hub either. Like I just I think sometimes and I'm certainly not. I'm not sitting here as an American being defensive about it. I'm just going like to think that what New Zealand did is what we could have done here. Like that's, that's not exactly apples to apples.

Are you trying to tell me that an island nation surrounded by water of 5 million people is not the same as 50 States with over 300 million people? You know, maybe we shouldn't argue that. No, I mean, we're very different. I know. Very different circumstance, but we were fortunate. I mean, we just went in total lockdown. The prime minister here did a great job, but there's, you can't argue that. No, I mean, we're very different. I know. Very different circumstance, but we were fortunate. I mean, we just went in total lockdown. The prime minister here did a great job, but you can't compare it. You can't compare us to anywhere in the world.

Like you said, we're very unique. We're very fortunate, but there's no sense in anyone in the state saying we could have done this as well because it wouldn't have been possible. We'll get some more stories here with Matt Walsh. But first, Whoop is a fitness wearable that I've been using the last few months to track my training, sleep, and recovery, and it's been awesome. The key to Whoop is that you wear it all day long and never miss a beat. They have a really smart charging system, and the battery lasts forever. And the battery pack slides right on top of the strap,

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When you leave the heat, who was your best friend on the heat, by the way? Who was my best friend on the heat? Everyone was pretty cool. Whenever anyone asked me for stories, I always tell stories about Shaq because what you see with Shaq is what you get. He was so kind to me. I was the last man on the bench and he treated me like an equal. He was amazing. I've got all kinds of stories of him

driving me home when my car got wrecked for three weeks and all kinds of nonsense we got into. UD, Udonis Haslam was a Gator guy, Florida Gator guy who was my guy. Everyone was really cool. When I think back to those memories, I think about Shaq and UD, Udonis Haslam was a Gator guy, Florida Gator guy, who was my guy. Everyone was really cool. But when I think back to those memories, I think about Shaq and UD. What's your favorite Shaq story?

I tell this story all the time. So I came down. I lived in this place called the Flamingo on South Beach. They called it the South Beach dorm. It was like if you're in your young 20s, this is the place you want to be. It had a topless pool. It had all this stuff that when you're 21, you're like, this is where I want to be. And I come down to hop in my car to go to practice one day.

As I'm sure you can imagine with the heat, Pat Riley, you can't be late, obviously. I go down and my car is sideways in the parking spot. And the drunk driver had smashed it like overnight. So I'm like, oh, man. So I go downstairs. This is before Uber. That's how old I am. I hop in a taxi. I get to practice. And I'm like, oh man. So I go downstairs, this is before Uber, that's how old I am. I hop in a taxi, I get to practice and I'm telling guys in the locker room. And after practice, Shaq comes up and he's like, he called me Wash, not Walsh, Wash. He's like, Wash, I'll

give you a ride. Come on. So I'm 21. I'm thinking, oh my God, I'm about to get a ride with Shaq. He's my teammate, but still for me, this is still a big deal. So I hop in the car and he had the big infinity truck police cruiser. We had the lights on, and we're going over to South Beach. He looks at me, and he goes, you want to take the short way or the long way? I'm like, what's the long way? He's like, the long way is we're going to cruise South Beach looking for girls.

I'm like, well, I want to go the long way, obviously. We'd cruise around. He'd pull up next to girls girls and he'd be like, this is my boy wash. You're going to give him his number. And I'm just sitting there like, this has got to be a dream. I'm texting my buddies on my old, like, you know, you have to type the numbers out when you text back to them being like, I'm riding with Shaq and he's trying to get girls for me. And for three weeks, Shaq gave me a ride home and picked me up for practice. And I tell the story because he probably wouldn't even remember.

I'm just one of his hundred-some teammates he had throughout his career. But for me, I was a 21-year-old kid. My first car I ever bought got damaged. And Shaq was the one who came up to me after practice and was like, don't worry about it. I got you. I'll take care of you. And I tell that because I think that just speaks to the kind of guy he was.

He treated everyone the same. And I tell that because I think that just speaks to the kind of guy he was. He treated everyone the same. And I've got a lot of stories like that. But he also used me as a shield because I never sweat. I never got in the game. So he got injured early in the season. He just grabbed me and made me sit next to him so he didn't get sweaty on the bench. He was a character. He was pretty good.

Was it weird for you being on that team and and probably like no one believing you when you're in the city because it's i mean you're what six six so you're i mean you're tall but you're not like oh my god who's that guy tall so and then you're never playing although the florida thing probably helped a little bit but it's such an international city though that i can imagine there was more times than not where people were like, there's no way this guy's in the heat. A hundred percent. It happened way more times than that. And one of our first road trips that year was Milwaukee. And so we're in Milwaukee and I'm sure, I mean, it's pretty well known. Like when you went to a city with Shaq, he'd have a party before a lot of times. So I go out to the party with Shaq and I'm in there and some guy comes up to me in

the VIP area and it's like, I'll kick your ass one-on-one. I'm like, okay, what am I going to do, argue with you? And Shaq comes up, he's like, I got 20K who'll bust your ass one-on-one and they're defending me and stuff like that. But yeah, I mean, of course, nobody believed me when I said I was on the heat. I was a skinny white guy. I shaved my head. I was goofy looking.

They're like, yeah, okay, you're on the heat. You're a tall guy. That's why you're talking like that. So plenty of times people didn't believe me. that was goofy looking, they're like, yeah, okay, you're on the heat. You're a tall guy. That's why you're tall and all that. So plenty of times people didn't believe me. I got to be friendly with Legler at ESPN, and the number of times that he would say, just as the white guy in the NBA, and then somebody would find out who he is,

and everyone would just come up and say, I smoke you. I'll play you right now. And I just, the level of confidence for the outsider who's played a little bit to just then challenge random white guy in the NBA, it's probably one of the more, like, it's just exceptional. It must have happened to you all the time. Like, guys, did you ever actually go,

all right, screw it, let's play? No, never. But it happened all the time. I was constantly getting looked up and down like, you're an NBA player? Or, yeah. But it was nice that Shaq had my back that one night. So you get done with that 05, 06 season, and then what happens?

So I get done. I get cut in early December, I think, pretty early on in the season. And then I tell this to everyone. I'm like, it wasn't a great year. My NCAA team, my college team that I left wins the championship, Joe Kim, Al, all these guys, and then my NBA team wins the championship. And everyone asked me, well, do you have a ring? And I'm like, I'd have the ring on, believe me, if I got a ring so it was a tough year just in terms of like emotionally and stress wise I didn't go play overseas right away I played a short time in the G League I think I'm one of the only guys ever to get banned from the G League at the time because I was playing for the Arkansas Rimrockers which doesn't exist anymore obviously I was so miserable I went from Miami University of Florida, to Arkansas Rimrockers. And I went on a road trip and just brought all my stuff and just went home.

I was like, I've had enough. I lived in like Section 8 housing in Arkansas where they put you up. It was really, really, really bad. So I went on a road trip to Charlotte and just got a connector to Philadelphia. And I remember getting a call from the commissioner of the NBL or the G League at the time. It was like, you have to come back or we're going to ban you. And I was like, be my guest, buddy. Like I'm never, I'm never playing. I'm never playing in your league again. So, so who was it? They actually said, we're going to ban you. They're like, we're going to have to ban you if you don't come back. And I was like,

take your best shot. Like I'm never, ever coming back. And back and then um so that summer I played summer league with the magic and then I went to preseason and it was actually probably my best shot to stick in the NBA I played with the New Jersey Nets with Vince Carter and Jason Kidd and they had a full roster so you know looking back probably should have went to a different training camp but they had 15 they thought Jeff McGinnis remember the point guard from North Carolina they thought he was going to get bought out of his contract in time and I was going to have a real opportunity, but I had a great preseason. I was one of the first guys off the bench the whole preseason. I put up some good numbers in some preseason games playing for Lawrence Frank. I think that was probably my best

chance to actually play and stick, but it just didn't happen. And then from then on, I played overseas. So then you end up in Greece. How do you sort through all the different things that you want to do there? Like who was your agent at the time? Was it Jason? Was Jason your agent? Yeah, so Jason was my agent. That's how our relationship started.

And when I think about success, I look at the fact that like 10 or 12 years ago, Jason was trying to get me a job in Larissa, Greece, and now he's owned like four franchises. So I'm pretty sure business-wise you can do anything if you've got the right- Didn now he's owned like four franchises so um I'm pretty sure business-wise you can do anything if you've got the right didn't he also write like campaign speeches for for the Clintons yeah so when he was in college he went to University of Michigan he wrote stuff for the Clintons and he's been involved in all kinds of things and he's the smartest uh sports business

executive I've ever been around I've been fortunate between him and Sam Porter, one of my partners now who works with Jason. Those guys are just absolutely brilliant and have taught me so much. Without those two guys, I wouldn't be where I am now. Yeah. Jason's a really impressive guy. I really enjoyed the time. It was a while ago. It was actually, IMG did this camp with coach David Thorpe, who was at ESPN for a really long time. It's this whole Bradenton thing.n for a really long time and so it's this whole bradenton thing and he's a big joe kim guy um he's a florida guy too and so i'm sure you probably know him if you know jason this well yeah and they did this this event it was a really weird like the whole concept was you pay a little bit of money and then we're going to put you through

this kind of like four-day boot camp of what it's like to get ready for the NBA draft. But I went down to write for a diary, but I was an idiot because I didn't get it okayed. I just said, Hey, I want to go do this thing and then write it. And they were like, fine, go ahead and write it. But it's going to be at that point. I don't even think I was with Van Pelt yet at the time. So we went down and we just did all sorts of drills. And, you know, you know we did um basically like a social media coach we had this guy who's like an acting coach who actually does a ton of really cool stuff now he's an elf and um basically the whole thing was diet training the whole whole setup and uh jason jason was there at the time you know we were playing pickup games and all that kind of stuff

so yeah jason like you're sitting there and you're you're at this event and then you sit down and you're like, okay, so this guy wrote speeches for the Clintons and he's this big time agent and he's been part of all these different transactions from franchise. So, so he's sorting through the different, uh, international, how different is that than the way free agency works for international teams versus how we understand it here in the States? Yeah, I think it's very different, um, which I learned later on. But this was my first experience. So I literally finished training camp with the Nets, got cut on the final day.

Lawrence Frank was the best. He was so cool. We played in Philly, our last preseason game, and he knew probably I was going to get cut. So he put me in first off the bench, let me play a bunch in front of my family. Just awesome guy. But he was like, look, we've got this opportunity in Greece. At that time, it was one of the best leagues in Europe. I was just like, all right, I guess this is what I'm doing.

So I flew to Greece. I'd never left the country before. But it's very different. It's just it all relies on agents contacting these hundreds of teams, putting sometimes highlight tapes together. It's a very different process. Nowadays, everything's consolidated, and it's a little bit easier and more professional. But back then, it was just a matter of relationships and making calls and using European agents to get you jobs and giving a cut of your commission and all these kind of crazy things. Yeah, because that part of it, I've always heard these different stories where some places they'll bring you in, you don't make as much money, but then they give you a home and then a townhouse somewhere else and then cars, and then they don't have you pay taxes. It's just, it sounds like a free-for-all a lot of these places. It is. And all that stuff's true. So everywhere I went, I got a house and a car for the year.

Everything is net of taxes. So if you sign for 300K, team pays all your taxes. So it's really good money. I mean, there's guys in Europe who are making a couple million bucks tax-free, like Nick Kalathis from Florida, point guard, played in the league for a little bit. He's making four or five million, I would imagine, tax-free in Europe, three or four at least. So, I mean, you have a pretty good setup. The only thing you're on the hook for is food and partying. Everything else is taken care of. How come no one ever stays anywhere more than a year it seems like every one of you guys it's like one year out and then you're somewhere else in the world well i didn't stay anywhere because i was a crazy person because i was thinking i should be in the nba and

i was a you know i was like i'll always on to the next job the next job would be what got me in the nba but you know you see it more times than but back in the day now with players sticking around a little bit but it's just the nature of it teams and now being on the ownership, you see it more times than back in the day now with players sticking around a little bit. But it's just the nature of it. Teams and now being on the ownership side, you see it. You're always thinking, ah, that guy was pretty good, but we could probably upgrade a little bit. We could probably get someone better. But when you get a really good player like we had Scotty Hopson, I mentioned him last year. You try and bring those guys back.

But these guys are hired guns. It's tough to, you know know they're always looking for the next best thing and so are we was there a stop that you absolutely hated like without question this was the worst place i played man i'll tell you living wise charlois belgium was pretty bad man i played there a number of times i was near brussels which was cool um great basketball wise it was awesome. I had a great experience there. I played with another former Gator teammate of mine, Justin Hamilton,

and a bunch of really good guys. But, man, that city was gray and not great. Other than that, I was fortunate. You look at the places I played. I played in Greece, France, Spain, Germany, Italy. I played in a bunch of cool places, and I enjoyed my time for the most part. What was your favorite place? I loved Greece, Italy. I played in a bunch of cool places and I enjoyed my time for the most part. What was your favorite place? I loved Greece, man. I didn't maximize it my first year there because like I said,

I was miserable. I did a lot of partying. I probably wasn't the best teammate to be around because I had just come from the NBA and I was thinking that that's where I belong. But I ended up playing in Thessaloniki later on in my career for David Platt. And I just loved it. I just connected with the Greek people, the way of life. I mean, it was pretty good. The food, everything. Is partying different there for pro athletes than it is in the States? I probably, especially early in my career,

wasn't the model of health and well-being and taking care of my body. How often were you going out? Oh when I was in my prime physically, I was doing a lot of party. Like I would go to Greece and I remember when I was playing for David, but which, you know, if I had any brain cells, I would have been like,

okay, I'm really going to focus and then follow David to Maccabi and then other places. But man, I'd come out of the club with some of my teammates it would be like morning not but getting light out like morning and then need a practice at 10 a.m and that time physically I could do it and I was really good at that time like I look back and I was super talented at that time but I don't think I could have done it later in my career when I calmed

down some but I was doing a lot of partying early in my career. Yeah, that European thing, and it's definitely the case in Greece and certainly Spain, but it's like they're trying to make it the most inconvenient part of the day. When you go to these things and they'll go, well, it doesn't really go off until 6 a.m., but it actually doesn't really pick up until 8, and you just go, what is the point of that? What, what, what are they trying to prove out there? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I remember when I played in Spain, I was about a half hour outside of Barcelona. And if you went out in Barcelona, the traffic stops would be at like 9am the next day. So they'd be drunk driving, testing people at 9am on the main strip in Barcelona. So they're not doing it at 2am. They're like, okay, we got to catch these people who are

leaving the club at nine or 10am. So it's,'s yeah i'm glad i don't have to even think about doing that anymore it makes me tired thinking about it i know i'm i'm exhausted just i like my stomach starting to turn just the idea of being so you would just go right into practice and you had no problem yeah no i was fine because i knew you know if we had two practices that day, I would get through the first one, eat a gyro or some pizza or some bullshit food. And then I would sleep for three hours and then go and practice and then do it all again. And so at the end, when you were in Turkey, that's 14, 15. Are you already talking about kind of trying to transition to do some of the stuff you're doing now? Not really.

I had a really good year. The team wasn't great. We got relegated. We had one of those teams that was like, we just rolled through imports the whole year. Marcus Haslip, Jerome Randall, Manny Harris, all these guys were like border line NBA guys, Jared Homan. But I finished the season anticipating playing the next season. And then my agent who I mentioned earlier, my business partner, Sam Porter left the agency business to go work with Jason. I blame him for my retirement probably a year or two early because then I didn't find an agent who I really wanted to work with. It was like trying to get a new agent when you're a 32 year old journeyman trying to get you a job.

It was just like, you know, these guys don't care about you. So I was, I basically was just tired of having those same conversations on the team bus every day that I had for 10 years. I was like, you know what, I'm ready to do something else. I don't want to talk about like the NBA results from the night before and the same exact conversation. So like I said, I talked to Jason and Sam and just decided it was time to move on. For every guy that's a borderline NBA player that's playing in these leagues, is there almost like this breaking in period for them where they have to kind of accept it? Because I can imagine that's going to be really, really hard for almost every guy that feels like he should be playing. 100%. 100%. And it's something I'm very conscious

of now for recruiting guys who are only a year or two out of school or the NBA. Because for me, I mean, I was a miserable bastard for like two or three years. I just was like I was, I was really, really good. So I was getting jobs. At that time in Europe, you know, I went and I was like, first team all league in Greece as a rookie, which is just something that doesn't happen back then. But, you know, we had Sean Long here who played a very short time in the NBA, high level player. And he dealt with a little bit of that here. But I think with my experience, I was able to help him. But there's no question. I mean, you got to have these guys who come from big time division one programs, get a taste of the NBA. And then all of a sudden, they have to

go play in Europe or, you know, we're a little bit different because this is paradise here. So I tell guys, I'm like, you're never going to have it better than here. You have guys who understand this is like nba light but if you go to a place like i did like i went to greece and i was living on like a dirt road really nice place but there's a farm across the street with like chickens and i'm in a country i've never been it's a very tough adjustment so with new zealand i gotta imagine that part of you know, whether it's the league and I'm not even saying like specific to RJ, but it helped. It helped your awareness. And then maybe you're paying a little bit more attention. And then, you know, look, it's a place that I want to go.

It's on my probably the top of my to do list to travel somewhere. I've wanted to go for a long time, but it's just a matter of, you know, timing it up the right time because the seasons and then knowing whether or not I have, because it's usually in the middle of basketball season when I would want to go there for us back here. I know people could be really difficult with the flights and all that kind of stuff, but I feel like you and your league that, that there's just more awareness to it now. And then if people put the research into it and the level of play, like where would you put this league or your league in comparison to the other top euro leagues so what i tell everyone and i tell the league and i tell everyone a part of league all the time i say we're the second best league in the world that's what we need to be putting out there and that's from a brand standpoint

now in terms of just talent across our league we're not nearly as good as the top euro league teams look some of the euro league teams have 50 million Euro budgets, 60 million Euro budgets, you know, Fenerbahce and Barcelona. We're not anywhere close to that. But we, the way I basically say it. What's the team salary for the Breakers? Two million bucks or so. That's the total payroll?

Yeah, two million dollars or so, total payroll on the player side. But what I tell people is you could place our team with our new zealand national team players with our imports you could put us in the acb in spain you could put us in greece you could put us in any of those leagues and we're going to compete we'll be a probably the fourth or fifth best team in the league because we're not going to compete with the early teams but we're going to be better than all the other teams and the one thing we we have that i think is better than anywhere else in the world is one, obviously English speaking is a huge advantage. And two, the production value, the owner of our league, Larry Kesselman, and the CEO, Jeremy Lolliger, they've done a great job of

investing back in the league. So you watch our games and it feels like you're watching an NBA game, at least NBA light. And you go to our game here at Spark Arena, it feels like you're at an NBA game, like the production and everything. So in terms of that stuff, we're the second best league in the world. In terms of talent, we're not as good as those EuroLeague teams.

There's no question, but we're getting there. And our import level is just like them. We just don't have the number of imports. Like we had Scotty Hobson last year. He can play on any team in the world outside of the NBA. Bryce Cotton, these guys that are in our league, they can play. Mitch Kreek, some of these guys are former NBA players who can play on any team in the world outside of the NBA. Bryce Cotton, these guys that are in our league, they can play. Mitch Kreek, some of these guys are former NBA players who can play anywhere. I'll admit, I was blown away watching your games on my Synergy program

where the atmosphere was incredible. And look, there's plenty of international, but I feel like this is happening in in the best way and that it feels like it's happening faster and faster it really does and before when you would say what the hell is a guy going to new zealand like what's he doing and i don't think that's really the case right now and it is rare and as unique as the rj story is um i think you guys are positioned in a great spot and hopefully we'll get some version of this back here soon, because I know you guys are kind of navigating your own issues with some players not wanting to come back.

So, you know, we'll see. Yeah, we're dealing with stuff like everyone. So no sense in whining about it. But I think you're 100% right. The league has grown. And now the conversations are a lot different. We're talking to these young guys because of RJ, because of LaMelo, it's a known quantity who we are and the product that we have. So it's a lot easier when we're talking to these top prospects. They're like, oh yeah, the New Zealand

Breakers, which is funny when you consider two and a half years ago, when I bought this team, there was no American ownership in the league. Now four teams are owned. Brian Colangelo came in with the Hawks and he's going to run that team. So the fact that the NBL and the Breakers are like, you could talk to a basketball fan in the States, and they'll know who the Breakers are, is something that we're proud of here. Yeah, you should be. The whole premise of when I first wanted to talk to you was after I watched a bunch of those guys' games.

I was like, wait, is everybody okay with this? Because the Lomelo situation on his team, I couldn't imagine being an older player being like are you fucking kidding me like this is what we're going to do every night they weren't yeah i can tell you it wasn't it wasn't great uh in terms of team atmosphere and stuff like that no question i i wouldn't it wouldn't take a detective to figure that but but i don't even know what kind of number like there's so many fake valuations of different things but whatever the number is i don't know what it would be it's just for for those two players to show up

and bring you that kind of awareness the eyeballs so um yeah i mean we had just a we had two over two million people watch our games on facebook live and we played the illawarra hawks so that's a mess that's a massive massive that's a massive, massive number. You know, 2 million people in the States watching a game in the NBL. That's crazy. And twice we had that.

So it was pretty cool. That's why we're talking to a bunch of young guys now and depending on what's happening with the college season, I think you're going to have some high profile guys

over here. Assuming that we can get them over here. Sounds good. Well, Matt, thanks a lot for your time. Appreciate it. Yeah, thanks a lot. Talk time. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Talk soon.

Let's get one life advice in here before we close it out. Again, you can email lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. A follow-up on our pizza guy from previously, we ended up corresponding and I want to make it clear to everybody that, yeah, it was just an age thing. So I think he was a little bummed out hearing it after the fact, but he's going to understand where I'm coming from because if I sound dismissive about anything like that, then I'm, um, I'm the bad guy. And so I just wanted to be safe with it, but yeah, it was simply an age thing. He's 33, she's 20. Um, he's also trying to date Massachusetts, which isn't anything I'd advise anybody. So I I think he probably hearing these, I think I send these in.

And then when I pick them, they're like horrified, which is kind of a weird thing because it's like you're the one who is send on it. But he's he's fine. And I would I would tell you this. would tell you this an embarrassing interaction with the opposite sex can sometimes lead to like bad intros can lead to great follow-ups because at least you've differentiated yourself in some weird embarrassing way and um you know maybe a year or two down the road it's like you know that was really kind of cute in retrospect i I mean, I'm trying to really, you know, make this positive, but I, I'll, I'll tell you there's, there've been a few over the years, um, where you were like, ah, man, I screwed this up. And then you didn't, you didn't screw it up. So I'm not saying that's happening for our pizza guy, but it's, um, it's

at least a little bit of a followup because we keep having guys email and then they hear, and then they do these followup emails that I get sent to me. And I, I, you know, I'm just trying to, uh, keep, keep the content moving here. Although there is a thing that has dawned on me and that I've probably defaulted to truth too much. That Gladwell term, his last book, I'm still kind of big on that. Um, but there's, there's also part of me reminding myself at times hey you know the emailer could be the the asshole right like the emailer could actually be the one that's the clown so like when we had the guy a couple weeks ago saying how do we do this i may want to dump my male friend um what if the guy emailing is the one that sucks and the other guy's terrific but

we're only seeing it from the point of view from the emailer. They say money can't buy happiness, look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. All right, we'll do a quicker work one here. We have a lot of these, so I try not to do them too often because I feel like it just kind of turns into like a personal work advice thing. This is from Jake. And hey, Ryan, your advice and input on the pod inspired me to pursue journalism, hoping to specifically do sports. I'm 26. I live in New York and decided to go back to school for my master's. Despite having done my undergrad in theater, I was able

to write a few decent pieces and get into Columbia J school. Recently, I've been pretty pessimistic about students in J school, but I'm wondering what are the pitfalls I should be worried about, especially since the pandemic hit, everything feels anxious, but you always struck me as a bet on yourself guy. And I'm trying to do the same. Uh, this may be more career advice than life advice, but I'd love to hear your thoughts for aspiring writers, particularly those who want to do sports, but struggle with how to generate original content without the access of being a respected professional, even if it's just a portfolio building techniques and angles, that would be awesome to hear. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely a better myself guy, but I would have made different decisions, especially the last few years.

If I had a wife and kids, I just would. I probably wouldn't have put my family at risk with not knowing what my career situation is going to be. I would still be at ESPN right now. If I had a wife and kid, I'd still be at ESPN and, you know, figuring it out. And, you know, that's okay, too. But it's not a terrible thing to work at ESPN for like 20-something years. Look, the biggest thing that I've always said to anybody that's going to school for journalism, or if you're just at for journalism, or if you're

just at Syracuse or if you're at Mizzou, and there's all these amazing schools, Northwestern, all the schools in Boston, it's a lot of money. And I think your generation, I can't believe that something needs to be done about this, but it's not a high priority thing in the grand scheme of, especially with everything that's happened this year, um, college tuition prices, but it's, it's just, it's, it's stealing, stealing from people when the idea that it's like, Oh no, don't worry about it. Just take on a ton of debt. But the, the escalation of, of what you guys have to pay and what you have to take on a debt is, is absurd and it's unfair. Um, so, but I'm not one that's like, Hey, just don't go to college because it's expensive. Now. I just think it sucks that you guys have to pay what you have to pay.

Uh, you know, for me it was different because I wasn't going to be a reporter. I wasn't going to be somebody that was like in the locker room every day, you know, breaking stories and doing that. So I think there's some journalism things that I never really learned. Oh, I know I didn't. Um, because that's not the way I went about it. I just kind of got on the air in a very unconventional way of doing minor league baseball after bartending and selling insurance. So, I mean,

you know, that's not exactly in anybody's playbook as I was getting ready to apply to go back to Syracuse. Now I think for talking, especially a radio show every day, I was in a better situation because I'd already had some kind of, you know, not rough life experiences, but the challenges of just being a guy, you know, navigating that post-college life and trying to figure out all this shit out. I mean, it's a

really, it's a really challenging time in your life because you're like, wait, is this, is this what it's all about? Like, this can't be it, right? Is it? You know, isn't there more to this? There has to be a little bit more. Or, you know, is anybody happy? Or, you know, can I just decide to go ahead and do some of these things? Because there's just different mindsets that people have, right? Like, some people have the mindset of, like, I remember one of my friends, when we were hanging out right after college, he was like, what, you don't think you're going to make

like this amount of money by the time you're 30? I was like, no, I don't think I'm going to make that kind of money. And he's like, oh, he's like, I don't think that way. to make like this amount of money by the time you're 30 i was like no i don't think i'm going to make that kind of and he's like oh he's like i don't think that way he's like i just always expect to do well and he he was a really successful kid and it blew my mind that he was so confident in himself and it kind of inspired me a little bit to be like yeah why why do i have to just decide why do i have to put these limitations on myself because things are challenging i mean you may be disappointed later, but there's no reason to just start right out of the gate and being like, well, this life's tough and I'm probably not going to be very successful. So I'm not going to pursue anything. I mean, that doesn't seem like what's the whole point of any

of this stuff, right? So I just worry about the numbers. I worry about places that solely, like, if you look at ESPN.com and the resources they used to put into how many features and how many people were writing, and it's just not the same. It's not the same that it used to be. The Athletic hired a million people and some of them are really good friends of mine. And I hope that all of these places, like I'm not one of these guys that wants other places to go out of business because I'm at the ringer. I want the industry to be solid because I mean, look at ESPN when we were there and we were on air and then all, all the people at ESPN started getting these massive pay bumps because Fox came in, I don't know, it was like five or six years ago now, but when Fox came in and started up their thing, it increased salaries across the board because there

was more competition. So you're kind of an idiot if you do what I do and you hope everybody goes out of business because ultimately you're going to end up paying the price because there's not as much competition out there for people that are on the air. So I was always early on in the very, like I was very strong and like, Hey, I'm going to do the opinion stuff. And that's what I'm doing because that's what I enjoy. And if I'm not going to do it, then I don't want to do this. Um, I remember a local newspaper, like in outside of Boston was like, Hey, will you start writing stuff for us on the Celtics? And I was like, Nope, I'm not doing that. Um, because I worry about, you know, if you're great, you're going to find a way, but there's just so many writers out there. And I think a lot of

writers would even tell you on social media that, you know, it's, it's a really scary time and it's, and it's never been scarier than right now when we haven't had sports this whole time. And if college football doesn't happen, if there's delays with the NFL, if basketball is interrupted or baseball can't figure this thing out, If we have a second stage of sports stopping after they try to restart all of this stuff, I think the industry, I'm worried about the industry in general. So yeah, I'm clearly, so go get them, Jake. That's why i feel the way that i do just because of the math but i'd never tell you to not do it like go for it you're really young um you're the same age i was when i first started looking at this thing and i think everyone in life should try the thing that they want to try

and it's up to you to decide if it's still worth pursuing or if you have to pivot and do something a little bit more stable but um kind of the back to the original thought, like, why not give it a shot? You know, if you're in a situation where you can. And it wasn't like anybody was helping me out financially. I just was like, okay, I don't care that I'm going to be absolutely broke for a long time. Like, I just didn't care. I was like, this is what I'm doing, and nothing's going to get in my way. And when people were like, why don't you just get a normal job, get a regular steady paycheck,

get health benefits, get, you know, get the normal grownup stuff. And I was like, I'm just not, I'm not worried about it right now. I'm not going to worry about it.

I'm not going to let it get in the way of my decision. So you're going to be a little single minded about it too. So with that, Jake, um, go get a man. All right. Check us out.

Uh, Thursday, Willie McGinnis, he's going to join the show, talk some football and some of the stuff that he's doing, which is great. And please subscribe, rate, and review the Ryan Russell Podcast and the Ringer Podcast Network. Thank you.