The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Rob Mullens on CFP Selection, NFL With Kevin Clark, Plus Tales From the Couch: NBA | The Ryen Russillo Podcast 

Episode Date: November 22, 2019

Russillo is joined by CFP selection committee chair and Oregon athletic director Rob Mullens to discuss this year’s selection process (3:05) before sharing some more CFB thoughts on Ohio State and LSU (26:47). Then Russillo talks to Kevin Clark from the Gillette Stadium parking lot about where the Patriots offense is headed, the Ravens success, teams that haven’t lived up to expectations, the 6-1 defense, Eagles, Chiefs, and more (34:39), followed by Tales From the Couch, where Russillo shares some thoughts on Warriors-Mavericks, Clippers-Celtics, and Rockets-Nuggets (1:06:15). Finally, Russillo touches on a recent development in the Myles Garret–Mason Rudolph situation (1:31:54). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I hope you're ready to hear me talk a lot over the next couple hours because we are giving you basically part one and part two all at the same time a Wednesday Friday hybrid out on a Thursday we had a lot of scheduling stuff going on Wednesday, and here's the plan. The Rosilla podcast today will have Rob Mullins, the AD of Oregon, but more important to you, the college football playoff committee chairman. Another year with him. He joined us a couple times last year, so he's great to talk to. I've known him a while. Also, some NFL with Kevin Clark.

Which teams that were supposed to be great still have a chance to be good or maybe still great? What's going on with the Pats offense? More Lamar stuff, which is really good. And we've got some good just coach story stuff. Tails from the couch, locked into about three different NBA games last night, including Luka's first quarter, the Celts and Clippers, and a little Denver-Houston. And this Miles Garrett news that came out later this afternoon back on the East Coast, the appeal has been basically ignored.

And his suspension remains indefinite, but now news that part of his defense for his actions was that a racial slur was used and that's set everybody in a million different directions. So we have a lot planned, probably two plus hours. Say happy birthday to Kyle. Kyle, we can follow you on Twitter where?

TomShady300. TomShady300. Who wouldn't want their daughter to meet a guy whose handle is TomShady300? And for those accusing him of the podcast scheduling problems this week, they weren't huge problems. You're basically getting two and one right now, so we've made your life more efficient, but it had nothing to do with Kyle. He was very responsible. I was taping a rewatchables and we had all sorts of stuff going on up at the studios. So I was there all day and people were on Kyle's case. Kyle showed up in remarkably good shape and ready to go with a coffee and a just impressive satin jacket. So it is not on Kyle. Today's show, as always, presented by State Farm. Today's episode of the

Ryan Russillo Show is brought to you by State Farm. If you're fumbling with insurance, State Farm agents are here to help because with over 19,000 agents, they're local to you and available to help whether you connect in person, by phone, or through the State Farm mobile app. Agents are here to help, so go with the one that has coverage and agents that you can count on. State Farm, talk to an agent today. Also, want to tell you about our boys at Zorro, because Zorro.com is where you'll find everything you need for businesses of any size and almost any industry.

They have tools, equipment, and supplies for everything you need. I'm even thinking about starting some hobbies just to have a little more Zorro in the garage. Whether you need stuff for industries like electrical, plumbing, manufacturing, or more. Who doesn't want to pick up plumbing as a hobby? Zorro's got it from brands you know and trust. And Zorro.com offers amazing customer service from real people based in the U.S. Visit Zorro, Z-O-R-O dot com forward slash dual in all lowercase letters to sign up for the Z-mail to get 15% off your first order. Let's start with Rob Mullins, again, the athletic director at Oregon and somebody who's been on the podcast before and currently the

college football playoff committee chairman. Say, let's start at the top here, Rob. We got LSU jumping over Ohio State a couple of weeks ago. They stay up there now. It feels like, you know, that's really going to be the debate and how this all finishes out. How much separation is the room between those two teams? You know, obviously, we've looked at them very closely each of the last three weeks.

And as you mentioned, you know, made a change between the first ranking and the second ranking. Two great teams, right? LSU with those three wins over CFP top 25 teams, Florida, Auburn, Alabama. So when you watch that offense, it's something special. And then when you see Ohio State, you see a complete team, both offensively and defensively, and they have been incredibly consistent in each of their games,

and they've got some quality wins as well. So two great teams. All right. You've gotten so much better at this. I almost sent you a note earlier in the year after the first rankings in that. You're kind to say that. Right. No, the move is, as I try to tell everybody all the time, the less they give us, the less we can sit there and try to decipher what all this stuff means. But as you say, Ohio State being a complete team, that leads me to believe some people in the room don't think LSU is a complete team. Is that fair? No, I think what we're saying there is, obviously, LSU's offense is very good, but Ohio State, when you look at it statistically and you

watch the games, they've done it on both sides of the ball, for sure. So, I mean, they're two really great teams, and when you get to this level, there isn't that much separation from what you see. The difference for the committee has been, and yes, there's lots of debate, so there's plenty of disagreement around this. The difference is the LSU's three wins over CFP top 25 teams. Does anyone ever say like, yes, I know what the LSU defensive stats are, but maybe it's this at play. And then that's just shot down because the numbers have gotten consistently worse the last three weeks. Like, how does that debate? I know you can't put names on. I'm not asking for that.

But, like, I'd love to know more detail of just the intimacy of what that debate truly is, like the different opinions on what a team may or may not be. Yeah, so it's exactly what you would think. It's exactly probably what you debate with fans all the time is, you know, we're looking at everything. We're watching the games. We're looking at all three phases of the game, offense, defense, special teams. And then each week we're looking at what happens that week. So, you know, it's exactly what you

think it would be. Cause you know, you're trying to compare schedules. You know, there, when there's not common opponents, you're, you're trying to look at, you know, what you see, you're also looking at the data. And when, When you look at Ohio State's data, from an offensive and defensive standpoint, they've got a lot of ones, twos, and threes in their rankings. Do you think the resumes are similar, then? Well, I mean, clearly the committee feels that they're fairly similar in the fact that they've got one.

We're talking about one and two. So, yes, I think that people know, that people feel those are close. And we had reversed it after the first ranking. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's fair. How often does this happen? Because I'd like to believe that, and I think it does happen. So I think I know the answer here, but I have to ask it anyway. You talk all the different numbers, resume, strength of record, strength of schedule.

You know, you start getting, you can go real deep on this stuff. I can find different strength of schedule that can maybe give me exactly what I want or something I don't want to see if I were trying to argue one team against another, right? Because that stuff can move around a little bit. How often does someone just say, hey, I think this team would beat that team, and that's how I'm putting them in the rankings. I don't want to make this more complicated. Well, again, the beauty of this process, right,

is you've got 13 pros, basically, football experts, and they can set up their own system however they wish, and then you come into the room and you look at everything, and that's why you watch the games. But, yeah, I mean, invariably somebody will say, well, I just think this team is better than this team this week. Remember, we start with a clean sheet, but that does happen, yes. And then you'll get into some debate of the why, and somebody will say, well, I disagree with that.

Here's what I think. And then, in the end, after all the debate, you put it to a vote. So is that what's happening with Alabama, then? Alabama then? What's specific? I mean, I think what you're seeing with what the committee sees in Alabama is, again, a team who's had some convincing wins, but they haven't played the schedule strength that some others have. But still, the teams that they have played, they've been dominant against, and they've

played their only losses to a team that we have number one. Right. Right, right. But I would just think that from the outside and it kind of becomes this thing where it's like, well, if it weren't Bama, and that's what I think is impossible. Like we can talk about clean slate, we can talk about conferences not mattering, and I think you guys say those for very specific reasons. I think it's smart for you to say it that way, but I think it's absolutely impossible. I'm not criticizing the committee for this. I just think human nature, it's impossible to not buy into certain programs more than others and give them that kind of carryover benefit of the doubt when the teams have been successful.

I just think it's impossible to try to remove that as hard as you may try. Yeah, I don't know how you can measure unconscious bias. I think that's what you're talking about. But I can tell you that every member values integrity of the process as best we can. We're looking at these from a blind resume standpoint. We're trying to look at the resumes. Obviously, we see whose resume we're looking at, but it's really about evaluating them on performance this year, and that's it. So how would you—I know how much you love the hypotheticals, because Bama would have work to do, right? I mean, the Big Ten feels as if right now it's going to kind of take care of itself. You know, LSU, if they meet up with Georgia, then that's another conversation. That feels like an elimination game if it's the SEC title game.

How would the committee factor in no Tua if it's only a one-loss Bama and some other weird stuff happens ahead of them? Do you look at the team differently? We absolutely look at injuries. I mean, we know exactly when Tua was hurt in that game. And although we evaluate all 60 minutes, and Alabama still had a convincing win, we do watch the entire game.

We also know that C.D. Lamb wasn't available for Oklahoma, and a number of these other teams. We know when there are key injuries and players either leave games or miss games, and that is certainly a part of the conversation. The Big 12 has to be worried. And it made me think that that Oklahoma win at Baylor with them moving up only one spot in your rankings means that you never really bought into Baylor in the room.

Is that fair? No, I don't think that's fair. I don't think that's fair at all. I think what's difficult when you're responding to these fan bases or media questions is people kind of focus on one thing. You have to look who's above them. You know, Baylor's having a great year, you know, with a close loss to Oklahoma, and they've got some quality wins.

But you also have to take into account that in their three non-conference games, those three teams only have seven wins. And so that's a factor. And you're looking at them compared to Penn State, who jumped up, or some others. I mean, it's difficult to measure, right? This is not a model where the NFC East plays the AFC West. I mean, we have to try to look at all these things and make a determination on who we feel the best team is. And sometimes, you know, it is an art.

It's not an exact science. I knew you weren't going to say that was fair because you weren't going to do that to yourself or the committee. But I do love the point that you brought up in Baylor because I think it's very similar to Minnesota where when Minnesota beat Penn State, it's a terrific win. I think Penn State's a good football team. That impressed me. I actually wasn't surprised that Minnesota lost to Iowa because I think Iowa is a tough team at home. But what it was clear to me that I thought

the committee was doing that so many people on the outside were not doing, where it felt like, hey, Minnesota's undefeated. They just beat Penn State. How come the committee doesn't have them higher? And it's like, no, the committee actually paid attention to their first four or five weeks when they were barely beating marginal football teams and hadn't played anybody really that challenging in the big 10 yet great signature win but you put all of it together which is i think what you did with baylor here and you know the the comp to that would be well bam i hadn't really played anybody look at all their strength the schedule yes yes but they are still destroying other football teams and that's the part of it where I think people make it more complicated

and not realizing that a lot of times I think you guys just do make it simple in the room, which actually I think should be applauded at times instead of trying to make it more hard and putting these teams in order. Yeah, and you know, you got to remember the CFP rankings are only six years old, so still fairly early in its evolution. And for years, decades, decades, the poll mentality with the media poll and the coaches' poll was, you know, win, move up, lose, move down. And it started, you know, the initial ranking started before anybody ever even played the game,

which doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You don't even know what you're ranking on. The beauty of this system is it's 13 people with a different set of experiences and committed to getting it right. But also, you can watch a lot of performance before you have to go in there and make the initial ranking. And the beauty is we're charged with starting with a clean sheet. So, you know, based on a week's results, you can look at it differently. How much of the criticism makes its way into the room? There have to be moments where you guys, like, there's just certain names that are national media members that complain about certain things where you guys just, I don't know if it's frustrating, eye-rolling, but I imagine some of that makes its way into the room.

No, no. Come on. Really? No, I mean, listen, we all read it and look at it, but we understand the task at hand. So no, there really isn't. We're focused on the task at hand. We've got a short amount of time, so it's some intense work. So, no, we don't really mix it up over what's happening. We block out the external noise. How's that for coach speak? That was good. On to Cincinnati is what that sounded like, Rob. That was good. On to Cincinnati is what that sounded like, Rob.

If you were, though, and you point this out, I think there's going to be some disaster scenarios if it stays at four teams, but that doesn't mean that eight is better than four. I think more people want eight. How do you think it would be if it were eight? I stay away from that question because I'm the chair of the CFP selection committee who has no role in that whatsoever. That'll be determined by the morning managers and the board of directors. And there's a lot of confusion about that because often when I'm out and people recognize the role as the CFP selection chair,

they want my opinion or want to share their opinion on four, eight. And I say, well, the reality is the selection committee has no role in that. So, uh, I stay away from that one. Okay. All right. Good job. Good job on that one too. Um, but you know, there, there is something that, that actually like, again, I, I I've always tried to express this and that's, well, you know, two years ago, they didn't care about Ohio State winning a conference championship. So conference championships don't matter, so they shouldn't listen. It's like, no, no, no. They do this in a very short amount of time.

You're right. There's not a ton of data, but I think it is easy to figure out. Like one year, this is going to mean something. And then in comparison of like team three, four, and five, this is going to have more weight. And, you know, the Ohio State conference championship being left out that year when they had two losses i'm like oh wait a minute that that's a very specific thing so if there's a big 10 conference champ that has one loss and is left out versus another team like obama who doesn't win his division in some version of this i'm just using kind of like a loose uh interpretation of

what happened a few years ago like that would be a different set of scenarios why do you think people have such a hard time understanding that like the criteria can be a different set of scenarios. Why do you think people have such a hard time understanding that the criteria can be a moving target every single year because the teams that you're comparing are most likely going to be very different circumstances every single year? I appreciate you saying that because, again, every week is different. Every year is different. I think the beauty of this sport is there's so much passion around it, and I think fans tend to get locked in on the piece that fits their argument. And it's just not that simple. It is a bit of an art each week, each year is different. And when

you're trying to compare however many teams you're comparing, everybody gets focused on that number four slot. You know, just like we went through last year and we explained at the end, you know, there was a lot of debate. And the protocol is really clear. Unless somebody is unequivocally better, and if they're unequivocally better, then you want to put the best team in. But if they're not, then you go to this series of four pieces of data that are part of the protocol. And so you have that debate. And, again, people can differ, right?

What's unequivocal? I clearly see a team here that's a lot better than this team, so I think they're unequivocal, but somebody else may not. When we look at the Pac-12, you have them positioned behind Bama, but you have them ahead of the Big 12 teams. I know that the media uses this a lot, and you'll even reference it. Hey, they have this many top 25 wins, you know, this kind of stuff. But, like, USC jumping into the top 25 this year. when I watch USC this year I go you know that's a

good football team like they can get some good teams some weeks they're not going to have a great record this year but you can't sit there and say like oh hey this is some walkover team and I feel that about a lot I think it's actually harder to find those teams that are in the middle maybe the second third tiers that may not have this great record but you know what like they could probably beat some good teams. But when you have a USC jump into your own playoff rankings into the top 25, does that all of a sudden make you guys look at Utah differently because it technically adds to their resume?

Or do we overstate that when team 28 and 29 could still be thought of in that same group as a team that breaks into the top 25? You nailed it. I mean, we're looking at a pool of more than 25 teams. And yes, you know, we do, you know, wins over top 25 is noted, but you know, the committee knew long before USC went into 23, what kind of team it was. And we know that there's good teams that are not in the, in the top 25. And so we see that. And that's the part that is hard to convey to the public is when we're comparing teams, we're seeing full resumes.

So when we're comparing, you know, we can compare up to four teams at a time. We're looking at four teams on a board all together, and we see the results from first game to the 10th or 11th game. Then we see their data, and we see it all lined up, and we're comparing it all there on the screen, and that's part of the conversation. We're all looking at the same thing and saying, well, we'll look at that win, look at that.

They've got no wins over teams above 500, but we'll look at them. They've got these two wins. So, I mean, you are really getting into a granular level. So we know who the good teams are, teams with winning records, and some of those may not be in the top 25. So what's the separation between Oregon and Utah then? And I know, look, maybe you're going to have to tell me because then I obviously have the follow-up Oregon question here.

Maybe I should start with that. Because you're the AD there, what happens? I know kind of what happens, but can you explain in greater detail on how that works and you having to leave the room? Sure. And this is not the first year this has happened. This has happened every year. So when they put together the protocol, if you have an association, me, since I work at Oregon, when Oregon's on the board being discussed, I'm recused from the room. So I'm not in the room. And when they're in a pool for voting,

and we vote these in pools of three, so we vote for one through three, then four through six, if they're in the pool to be considered, I can't even vote on them. On my computer screen, Oregon is blacked out. I can't even click on it for anything to put them in the pool to vote for them. So when Oregon is on the board being discussed, I'm recused from the room. And when I come back into the room, they share with me what was discussed and what the decisions were. Just like when Dan Radakovich was on the committee from Clemson, and Gene Smith was on from Ohio State, and Joe Castiglione from Oklahoma had to do it. This is not new.

I think people are just now beginning to pay attention to it because I'm the chair and the spokesperson. Yeah, right. I mean, that's, it really is. I mean, other people have had to leave the room. So you can't come back into the room after the fact and see Oregon somewhere and then argue against what their decision was? I cannot. For example, specifically this week, when I walked back into the room, I saw that Georgia was four, Alabama five, Oregon was six.

And so that's done, and we're moving on to seven through nine. But could you argue against Utah in theory? So when Oregon is in there, yes. I mean, I do not have to recuse myself when Utah's being discussed unless they're in the pool that Oregon can. So, you know, I wouldn't, Utah would have been in the pool for four or five, the ranking of four, five and six. So I would not have heard some of that, but when I come back into the room and we're discussing ranking seven through nine, I'm a part of the conversation. And that's a really important distinction there is that you're, you're, you're arguing for against a team that's already separated essentially from your tiers, right? That's how you pull them together. Yeah. So, you know, you have pools

of six. So there's six teams in the original pool to vote for one through three. So you, you debate six teams, you rank one through three, then you put three more teams in the pool. So you have six teams that you debate and you rank four through six, so forth and so on. Okay. All right. Um, yeah, cause I just think it's the fascination I've always had with this and I'm just lucky enough that I've gotten to talk to all you guys and know you a little bit, is just I just don't think it's as devious behind that door as so many people want to believe it is. No. And it happens. It's happened every year, I believe.

Every year. Every member has a recusal because all of us are, you know, either, you know, professors or, you know, we get, you know, some coaches still get tickets and so they're recused for those places. Um, so everybody has recusals. I still wonder if anybody will ever write the book to be like, oh, so-and-so is brutal to deal with every week. This guy, I don't, I don't think that, I don't think there's any material there for a book. I don't think somebody over the last there for a book. Come on. Somebody over the last few years had to have been really difficult. No, really. I think everybody really cares about the game, understands the process,

really is committed to the integrity because of its importance not only to the sport but to all of college athletics. So I don't think there's anything to be written there. Do you think – all right, I have two more things here. Um, is it fun though? Is it, is it, because I mean, there is a lot of pressure on you and then you unveil it on ESPN and it's a big national thing and you're going to see all this stuff and then you go out there and you're very concise, very efficient.

I'm so proud of you, um, as, as somebody who has this responsibility and yet you're just unwavering, the longer you talk, the more we can try to pick this stuff apart, as I said at the top. When I watched you this year, I'm like, my gosh, he's so good at this now. Not that you were bad before, but you're just seasoned. You're a vet. Is it fun or do you guys get nervous?

It's fun. I think absolutely every member would say how much fun it is, how much they enjoy the work. It's intense, particularly over a six-week period of time. But everybody, anybody in our industry would raise their hand. You can talk to any former members, you know, who speak, you know, about it after they're done, about how much they enjoyed it, how much, you know, they liked contributing to the game.

People love the opportunity and who wouldn't? And, you know, yes, I get a little nervous about the TV piece and what questions Reese is going to ask me. But by and large, you know, that's just a small piece of it. I really do enjoy it. Yeah, Reese is really good at it, too. I mean, Reese will make me think every now and then where I'll be like, oh, you know what? Like that was I would hope I would have thought of that in the moment. And I think he's terrific at it. All right. Final one. Would you, if you had to rank Jeff

Long, Kirby Hokut, and yourself seed wise, would you, could you do one through three seeding as far as who's been the best committee chair or would you have to recuse yourself from that as well? I would have to recuse myself from that question i do appreciate the fact um you don't get to go right i mean it's jeff and kirby i wasn't first and i i got to serve for two years under kirby with jeff on the committee so i have a huge advantage uh of having you know those two guys go first and they both were really really good at at it. And it both have been great resources. So I would recuse myself from that question. Um, but I, again, I had a, I had a distinct advantage of watching them do it. Well, look, man, I really do think you're one of the best ADs in the country. So your success is not a surprise and I always appreciate

the time. So hopefully we'll catch up soon. All right. Well, I appreciate you having me. I love what you do and I appreciate the friendship all right awesome man we'll talk at the end if you can come on in the final rankings when it really matters to see how mad everybody is all right I'm ready to go I just need you to defend me and now it's time for the state farm safe bet of the week the Seattle Seahawks at Philadelphia you can count on but hold on Philadelphia bonus safe bet I think after the Seahawks win this game, I would not rule out the Eagles making a run at this. We'll break this all down.

Now, we all know that Seattle is arguably one of the best teams in the NFC. And their two losses this year, they had that weird loss where we didn't realize how good Teddy Bridgewater and the Saints were going to be. And then the Ravens put it on them, especially in that second half. But the Seahawks have Russell Wilson, who I would put second in the MVP race behind Lam the Seahawks have Russell Wilson, who I would put second in the MVP race behind Lamar Jackson. Others would have him first. The Lockett-Wilson

connection has been incredible. The defense is not the same now for Seattle that we've always been used to over those years. And I know what you're saying, Ryan, what about the West-East travel? Don't do it. I'm going to do it. I think they get Philadelphia this week. Now, here's the thing with Philadelphia. We understand that loss against New England now looked at as this awful loss when it's still like, look, it is the New England Patriots. The offense was a mess, but they were without two of their top receivers, and they still had Wentz on a deep throw that almost tied this game out. They were also without their lead running back.

They lost one of their tackles in Lane Johnson, and I don't know that any of those guys are even going to be back or at 100% if they get them back against Seattle. But what you have with Philadelphia, even with all the Wentz struggles, it's a much better team, I think, than the 5-5 record indicates. And when they get some of these guys back, and they're playing at Miami, home to the Giants, at Washington, home to Dallas, and at New York to close out

after the Seattle game, I think Philadelphia is going to go on a run here. The corner's been better. This team has actually been a little bit better than the way that they're talked about. So I'm still picking Seattle to get it done against Philadelphia on the road, but it is not one of those, oh, right off Philadelphia type of outcomes. And who knows, maybe they even surprise us this week. If you're fumbling with insurance, State Farm agents are here to help because with over 19,000 agents, they're local to you and available to help.

Whether you connect in person by phone or through the State Farm mobile app, agents are here to help. So go with the one that has coverage and agents you can count on. Kind of like how you can count on Seattle and Philadelphia or Philadelphia to be competitive through the rest of the season. State Farm, talk to an agent today. I just want to follow up on a few things there, and I didn't want to do this with Mullins

because I know I'm going to get accused of this. Like, hey, look, I like LSU, and if you want to say I'm biased about LSU, that's fine. I think a lot of you know me long enough that if I thought LSU sucked at other times or weren't deserving, I would say so. Ohio State is, again, I've said this all season long, if you're telling me you think Ohio State is better than LSU and you want to vote them one,

you know what? I can't tell you you're wrong. And I think I'd even lean picking Ohio State against LSU right now because my defensive stance for LSU has been, you know what, the numbers actually aren't as bad as the surrounding discussion. And I just don't want to use the word narrative because narrative and straw man and okay boomer becoming my three least favorite things but two weeks ago lsu's defense going into that bama game and i remember i was on the sideline i was talking with some guys i think they were like cbs guys everybody on the sideline which actually had a great time talking with a bunch of different people and we were talking about different matchups like is lsu's offensive line? And they've actually looked better now for

a couple weeks. And then the guys like, oh, their defense is terrible. I said, you know what? They're 16th in the country in yards allowed per play. And he's like, you're going to be kidding me. And I looked it up. I was like, yeah, no, it's 16th. And then they have the Bama game, and it drops down to 25th,

which still wasn't nearly as bad as everybody was making out to be, they got gashed by Ole Miss. Gashed. And now they're 51st. So if you're telling me, like, I used to have this thing where I could go, and you've heard it before, well, the Texas game got weird at the end, and they were up a million on Vandy. Yeah, they were up 31-7 on Ole Miss.

So if it were just a straight-up shootout where it's 35-34, and back and forth the whole time, I think that looks worse. But statistically, these are what the numbers are in LSU's defense. So if you want to tell me Ohio State's the more complete team, which I think the committee is kind of wanting to tell us, even though you just can't put,

I don't know how you put anyone ahead of LSU based on beating Texas, who, yes, I know is losing games now, but I don't think it's a terrible, it's not like, oh, whatever, that's not an impressive win to go in at Austin and beat them, especially at the beginning of the year, the Auburn and Florida wins, and then to go into Tuscaloosa. Going into Tuscaloosa is a really good

win, okay? You know, if Ohio State fans went into Tuscaloosa, I have a hard time believing that Ohio State fans would be like, yeah, you know, we went down to Bama and beat them the first time they lost there in like five years, but whatever, not a huge deal. Like, Bama's defense isn't really as good. By the way, Bama's defensive yards allowed per game right now not being one or two is 18th so it's not like it's atrocious so that kind of leads me to the Bama thing because uh two of America's excuse me two of SEC's most wanted Danny Cannell and Joel Klatt who every week put out their playoff rankings and look Danny's a friend and I watch Joel every weekend and think he's great but those guys just don't like the SEC it's painfully obvious and anybody would say that

they don't I mean I don't they're more than welcome to come on and say they they aren't but I mean I look I listen and I see all the content because before when Ohio State was ahead of LSU for clout it was what it was their strength of record it was their strength of resume well right now strength of record LSU's won after the Bama win and their strength of record. It was their strength of resume. Well, right now, strength of record, LSU's won after the Bama win, and their strength of schedule is higher than Ohio State's. When before LSU's strength of schedule was dragged down

because of a ridiculous non-conference, you know, that Northwest Louisiana game that I was always referencing, it was just absolutely dragging it down. And now that they've kind of put together this stretch where they're beating Power 5 teams, and again, Bama at their place,

they've jumped ahead of Ohio State, but Clatt when he came out those rankings had Ohio State and Clemson ahead of LSU after he was arguing strength of schedule Cannell is even more out of his mind because he's been arguing against Bama because they haven't played anybody. They haven't played anybody look Clemson as an absolute

scoring differential tear right now. It's it's like a plus 300 I think in their last five games. It's like a plus 300, I think, in their last five games. It's nuts. That conference stinks. They're terrible. The ACC, they're setting precedents. I think it's back-to-back weeks.

Only one team ranked as a Power 5 conference. Usually, it just becomes kind of cyclical from like 16-17 on to 25. So, Connell, who was arguing against Bama's schedule the whole time, now mysteriously has Ohio State and Clemson ahead of LSU. So,nell, who was arguing against Bama's schedule the whole time, now mysteriously

has Ohio State and Clemson ahead of LSU. So, you know, I mean, this is not hating. I like both guys, but this is your content and I'm only reacting to it. So as I've stated every single week, if you think Ohio State's better, that's okay. But if you're telling me one week, this is your argument, and then you don't really follow it. And I can't argue LSU's defense anymore. It's just not the same. But the other thing that Cannell had after Bama lost, because I cannot imagine he was like, I don't need to watch Cinemax tonight. Bama lost, and I get to tweet about it. He was like, hey, I hope the committee holds Bama to the same standard that they held Oklahoma to because Bama gave up 46 points and they're lost to LSU. Again, this was his tweet

that night in Tuscaloosa on fire. And he was like years ago when Oklahoma had lost to Texas giving up 48 points, there were questions about their defense. Well, there were questions about their defense because Oklahoma was 95th in the country in yards allowed per play. And in 2017, when Oklahoma lost to an 8-5 Iowa State team, again, good record, certainly not losing to the number one team and the number one offense in the country in LSU, Oklahoma was 76th in yards allowed per play. So Bama at 18, giving up a bunch of points to the number one team in the country

and still sort of sneaky making it a one score game, which it didn't feel like Bama had one offensive score in the first 40 minutes possession wise on top of the punt return. But I'm just telling you, there are holes everywhere. You could probably find holes in my stuff. I try not to do it very often, but I just think the committee, as you talked with Rob, sometimes it's not that complicated. So for everybody that's knocking Bama, having any chance of getting back into this thing and look, some weird stuff would have to happen. Okay. I don't know if they, I don't think they're going to leave out a 12 and one pack 12 champ. I just don't think they are when Bama is sitting at home. The problem with Bama getting in, as you mentioned with Rob was that it was

compared to a two loss Ohio state team that cannot be repeated enough. The circumstances were different or likely will be different that year than they could be in other years. But for anybody that's just like, Hey, Bama isn't any good. I'd ask you this. Do you want to play him in the semifinal? And that would be with Tua. And now you don't have to worry about it because Tua is out and it's Mac Jones. But let's just say hypothetically, if Tua, as you knock Bama, if Tua were healthy, would you want to play him? You know what I mean? Like when Minnesota, people were mad they were behind Alabama. In a million years, would you ever pick Minnesota against Bama on a neutral field?

If I'm being honest with myself, a man? Exactly. And we're going to talk to Kevin Clark, co-host of the Ringerfl show with robert mays in just a second he's out at foxborough but first i want to tell you about my friends over at draft kings these guys get it they've launched an online sports book created by sports fans for sports fans here's real good news if you live in pennsylvania it's now available for you in your state and trust me draft kings is hard at work bringing their Sportsbook app, which happens to be America's top-rated Sportsbook app everywhere. The DraftKings Sportsbook app has it all.

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This Pats offense. We knew they were a defensive team. in New England, outside of Gillette. Makes my heart warm. This Pats offense. We knew they were a defensive team. We know they have a hard time getting guys on the outside separation. We know their design. But the Philadelphia game just looked like it was this thing where you're like, okay, I'm going to finish this race

but it's going to hurt. It's not going to be fun. I'm not going to look great on camera. What do you make of where this Patriots offense is headed? Well, I think that Josh McDaniels, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, they've earned the benefit of the doubt. I assume they will figure something out. I just don't know where their edge is right now. Because one of the things that Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels is so good at, they find just where they're good at and they hammer it over and over again. maybe it's the no huddle offense I you know I talked to a couple people here in New England I think maybe there's an edge there just you know they're better conditioned

than most teams they have run the no huddle before Tom Brady is that kind of quarterback you know I think in 2012 it almost broke the record for most plays ever run because they were doing the no huddle so much so I think that maybe there's an advantage there. I think that weirdly, we don't talk enough about the James Devlin injury, changing the identity of this team, because I think there was a case to be made. They could have done a lot more power football and throwing out of it.

I think they've lost that element a little bit. Andrew Cowan had a pretty good piece today about just how, you know, modern NFL right now is you run out of the spread formations and you pass out of the heavy formations and the Patriots aren't doing that. They're running three receiver sets and running what I would consider a pretty standard offense. And I think that you can, you can do a lot more than the Patriots doing right now. I just think with this receiver core, it's a work in progress. I still think, remember, they lost Antonio Brown

and they're still paying him $5 million. That was going to, from a football standpoint, that was supposed to solve a lot of their problems. It didn't work. And so I think that there's, they have a month to figure it out.

And I just, I think people have PTSD from counting Belichick and Brady out in the past, especially offensively. And so I just think no one wants to do it and I'm not going to be the one to do it. Are you excited to ask Brady more about his social media habits on liking posts from Antonio Brown? Yeah. So he was, that was, that was a thing

yesterday. Bill Belichick was also asked about it. I did not ask about that. No, I did not ask about that, but Bill Belichick was asked about it. Um, Brady was asked about it. I did not ask about that. No, I did not ask about that. But Bill Belichick was asked about it. Brady was asked about it. There were a lot of patriots who liked that post. And I think that people just reflexively like Instagram posts. I think that... So one of the differences between Twitter and Instagram, for me at least, is that when I am going through Twitter and I'm about to like something, I think about it in 20 different ways. How could this be perceived? Is this problematic? And on Instagram,

I'm just smashing the like button on everything. It's like, Oh, this guy, this guy's at a Weezer concert. I'm I'm smashing that like button. So I think that it's a little instagram is just conducive to mindless likes okay all right i guess i guess that's that's past but what's the dumbest do you have a dumb belichick question moment or were he i could see him liking you more because i know how much time you put into it but it doesn't no one's ever shooting 100 with that guy yeah so the first time i ever met bill belichick uh i had was doing a story about the offensive boom. And one of the NFL guys had told me that the NFL scoring boom. And one of the NFL guys from the league office was like, you know, on a scale basis, the passing boom isn't much different from what it was in the 1950s. And so I asked a question about the 1950s and Paul Brown to Bill Belichick. I don't even remember. I was 26 years old. I don't remember how I asked the question. And Belichick kind of looked at me and was like, I don't really know

what you're talking about. And that was probably the correct way to go about the question I was asking. And then I tried to, as he was leaving the room, I tried to get his attention to explain further what I was trying to say. And he didn't really know me. Uh, and he didn't care to hear my explanation, which is a hundred percent. He was on a right on. And then a couple of Patriots, um, executives who had, um, seen the whole interaction and knew me because I had introduced myself, we're watching this me because i had introduced myself were watching this and i turned around and they were laughing at me in the in the nicest way possible and they said it was kind of like looking at someone trying to ride a bull i was just trying to stay with

belichick to explain it and he was walking really fast and uh he eventually just out outpaced me and i had to give up and that was uh that's my stupid Belichick story but I've improved since then I'm gonna go ahead and tell you what you did because I have done it and I'm still capable of doing it every now and then is that you knew it was Belichick you're younger you're like how can I set myself apart how can I ask something really smart here and then you're like now all of a sudden i'm asking you about the growth and passing numbers in the 50s and he's not that old so yeah no that's that's a historian but probably you know not at that point i've done it i've done it too where you're like hey i noticed on your fourth quarter clutch timings out of that timeouts you guys are minus 12 but only on the west comp you know and the guy's like dude what are you talking about and the question

isn't even about the answer. So, hey, that's all right. We all get better. Lamar got a lot better this year. I know there were certain arguments that he was really good last year. Whatever it is, he was not this last year. It's incredible. And even though I thought there were moments where defenses were doing

some different things that were going to challenge him, which would make sense still as a young quarterback. He keeps everybody in check, basically. Like, okay, you want to start doing some of these things? Well, fine, then I'm just going to run all over you again. And even though I always think the dual QB correction comes and it forces you to do something, whatever it is this year, it is MVP level, even though I think most of the time it's been Russell Wilson. So give me your sense of MVP stuff that I know you and maze are doing.

And then how we got here, because I never, I'm asking a bunch here really in a making conversational, but that I've always thought Harbaugh was a really good coach. And yet when things were kind of plateauing, it's like, Hey, should they do something else?

And I actually really believe that that is a great example of an organization going, Hey, we like our coach. We think he's a good coach coach and even though the numbers wouldn't reflect him killing it right now we're really happy that he's here and doing this and you know thank god for that happening because maybe with a different staff we don't even know what lamar is his second year into the league yeah and so i think that people are talking a lot about the play calling and that is 100 correct the play calling has and that is 100% correct.

The play calling has been great, but this is also a personnel triumph, too. Like the offensive line, those guys are bullies. And, you know, Hollywood Brown is really good. Mark Andrews is really good. Ozzie Newsome in his last draft draft picked Mark Andrews, Lamar Jackson and Orlando Brown. I mean, those are those are three of the backbones of what this team looks like right now. So this is not only, okay, Greg Roman, John Harbaugh, they're creative, but this is also, they just have the players to do this.

They have the offensive line to do it. I think that the pistol formation is perfect for Lamar. I think that the way that they've built this offense, where they can show so many different, they can run so many plays out of the same looks. And I think that that's, you know, Chris Long talked about this, about, you know, how many bad position coaches there are in the NFL. And, you know, good coaching is the exception, not the rule.

And I think that when we talk about things like, okay, they run, you know, a heavy backfield, but then they can run, you know run a million different plays out of that. That's not all that common in the NFL, even though it should be, even though it's probably easy to do. And so I think that you pair Lamar Jackson's inability to be tackled, essentially, with the fact that you cannot make adjustments to him pre-snap because you have no idea where it's going to go. You have no idea if they're going to run up the gut, if he's going to keep it, or they're going to pass. There's a great article on Pro Football Focus this week about how they're dropping back to pass more, and that's helping Lamar Jackson for a number of reasons. One, again, is that it's really hard to make those defensive adjustments. And two, is that they're just avoiding third downs now.

They're in the top five of just avoiding third downs by getting first downs on first and second down. And so I think that this is all working together in a really brilliant way. I think they have the players to do it. Mark Ingram was an inspired signing. I didn't know about that signing at the beginning. Gus Edwards, you know, the heavy backfield. I just really like everything they've done. This is not necessarily all the play calling. It's not necessarily all of Lamar's talent. It's Ozzie Newsome. It's Eric DaCosta.

It's John Harbaugh, Greg Roman, and Lamar Jackson. This is one of the best team-building performances of the decade. Yeah, it really is. And I'm worried about the outside guys. And Hollywood Brownies haven't been there the whole season. And I still don't think they have great depth on the outside, but these tight ends, I mean, Andrews was a baller at Oklahoma. He's a big athletic matchup problem who made plays.

I think he was even a quarterback in high school too, which usually, you know, those guys, I'll double check that as we're talking about it, but I just remember all his recruiting stuff and going, you know, this guy's, this guy's nuts. So it's worked. And, uh, you know, I'm happy because anybody that's ever get any time around Lamar Jackson, it's like, it's just so impressive. I remember interviewing him that first year before he won the Heisman and it, there's just this realness, but a hump,

not that fake humble shit that everybody does on Instagram where it's like, look at all these things I'm bragging about, but then hashtag stay humble. Like to me, Lamar has always been the real deal with that stuff. And, and I think that that's the kind of thing where guys in a locker room, knowing how jealous people can get when there's 50 of them. Um, that's the kind of stuff where guys want to play really hard for that guy. And I think he's showing that very early on in his career that he's the all time teammate type of dude. Yeah. There's an anecdote that floats around Baltimore. I think it's been reported about how Lamar had heard that Peyton Manning knew everybody in the building's name and that that was a big thing for Peyton and a lot of elite quarterbacks. And so Lamar

made it a point to learn everybody's name in the building. I mean, everybody's name. And so I think that's the kind of thing where he understands what it takes to be an elite quarterback on the field. But I also think there's just sort of what it takes to be an elite quarterback on the field but i also think there's just sort of a face of the franchise thing that all elite quarterbacks have to do and i think he is prepared for that as well so i agree with you i mean he's a great guy everybody just adores him inside that building and it's the whole thing is just really coming together right now i mean this is this guy is a legitimate nfl superstar and i think he will be for a long time both both again on the field and off the field.

All right. Andrew's played wide receiver in Arizona in high school, so I don't know where that quarterback thing came from. So I just wanted to go ahead and double-check that. Okay, let's talk about some of the teams that we, whenever we go through the exercise, you go eliminate six playoff teams from last year because that's what you're supposed to do. It feels impossible, right? You're like, okay, well, the Rams are coming back. I mean, the Chiefs are obviously coming back to this. Let's talk about some of the teams that's what you're supposed to do it feels impossible right you're like okay well the Rams are coming back I mean the Chiefs are obviously coming back to this

let's talk about some of the teams that we always think are supposed to be good and it's not happening the Rams we know the problems the offensive line Barnwell had that incredible stat about Goff over his last full season of games that his QBR and some of the other numbers would put him at literally the bottom of the league which then makes you go you know what are we looking at here with Goff like what is he really as a guy to go from mvp candidate to is he actually one of the worst starters in the nfl and that seems both seem to be extremes so where are you with the rams and trying to salvage what felt like another season of taking a step forward that has not like even when they were three and oh people could tell something's wrong with this team yeah the weirdest part right now is that everybody was talking about the 6-1 defense that teams could employ on on the rams and kind of

stop them take away the running game well teams aren't necessarily having to run the 6-1 now to beat the rams the the word is out on some of these tendencies, and I haven't seen enough adjustments from Sean McVay. I mean, this is teams essentially in the back half of last year started ignoring jet motion. There's so much window dressing in the McVay offense, and essentially teams adjusted to it by ignoring it. I think that was one of those things that wasn't talked about enough.

And it's really helped. I think Matt Patricia went a long way in doing that. And obviously Bill Belichick showed that. And then you pair ignoring the jet motion with a couple of other things. And all of a sudden you score three points in the Super Bowl. I've been really disappointed with the offensive line, as we talked about. I mean, it just shows you, look, I think that we have underrated offensive lines in this era because there was so many, so much quick passing and so much, oh, we can game plan the offensive line out of it.

And eventually, people started to talk about offensive lines that they didn't matter. Well, look at Lamar Jackson and how good he is behind that offensive line. And look at Carson Wentz and the difference between when Lane Johnson's playing and when he's not playing. And then look at the Rams this year. They've taken a huge step back, and now they don't have the running game. They don't have the push. They don't have the angles. I mean, so many of the McVay offensive principles

were viewed upon, were based upon stretching the defense to its limits, and they can't stretch them at all right now. I've just been really disappointed in just his ability to become... Right now, it looks like Chip Kelly, dude. It looks like he had a couple of great ideas and wasn't able to build on them. I have enough faith in Sean McVay

that he will be able to come up with something else. He basically completely adjusted his personnel, was running a lot more heavy against the Bears on Sunday. But right now, I just think that they're out of ideas and they got to go back to the drawing board because this at this point looks broken and they are all in on this team they don't have the picks going forward they traded two first round picks for

jaylen ramsey this team is not fixed right now and it's up to sean mcveigh to come up with something new and all the money that they've spent and have to spend to keep the Ramsey. And something I've just mentioned before is they are not afraid to just throw the money around at a handful of guys, and that's what they're going to have on the books. So I don't know why the roster without the draft picks and without calf space is automatically going to get a lot better, especially when you have to go out and buy offensive linemen that you think are good enough to improve because those dudes are so expensive.

NBA players always joke about how much they make in free agency just because whoever's good usually just doesn't come up. And then you have a million teams hoping to get a guy who's overpaid. Like, hey, we hope we get to pay this guy $120 million even though he's not worth it because the alternatives are so much worse. And with offensive linemen right now, there are contracts where I think a lot of people are like, are you kidding me? It's like, well, okay, but he's actually proven.

Instead of me maybe taking a second rounder who we know within six months is not going to work out. Can you add a little bit more depth on what the 6-1 defensive alignment is and how teams? I'm not telling you. I'm even remotely some expert on it. But just to counter some of the spread stuff that we thought maybe was out of control, like indefensible. And it feels like, hey, wait a minute, did defenses figure some thinking? Like, did this actually become cyclical again and that defenses did figure some things out? Because that seems to be part of it.

Yeah, so a couple of things. So basically it's four linemen, then two linebackers, and then one behind them. And it's funny to me because I don't trust NFL coaches on anything at this point, because I have just had too many conversations with them where they've just been wrong. Like I, like I will try if, if, if the smartest coach in the NFL tells me something, um, you know, I obviously do not talk to Bill Belichick, but if he told me something, I would believe Bill Belichick. Right. But the run-of-the-mill coach is typically pretty wrong when we talk about schemes and where the sport is going.

But a lot of the coaches I talked to in training camp and in OTAs or whatever, they were laughing at the cyclical part of it because what McVeigh and even Kyle Shanahan, even though he's having a lot of success, what they employ, it's really, I mean, pretty old stuff. It's, it's play action. It's Mike Shanahan stuff. And they have adjusted to this in the past. And so old sort of, you know, old fashioned defensive coaches were a lot more skeptical that McVay's offense could continue to work

than maybe I thought. And I actually didn't believe them and they seem to be on the right track. You know, as Matt Bowen said this the other day, teams are just looking for crossers off of play action with Goff. And I think that this is just a predictable offense right now. And so what the 6-1 does is it just gives,

it takes away the run game, which everything is predicated on. You pair that with Gurley being, I guess he's not load managed, but he obviously is being load managed or he's just bad now. It's taken away the outside zone against the Bears. The Rams just did not play the outside zone hardly at all. And so the 6-1, it is in a kind of classic NFL way, it was tweaked and built upon. Um, really it was Patricia and then Fangio and then Belichick used it, but then they, you know, I think the Belichick innovation was putting Jonathan Jones on the speed on the, um, basically

putting him at safety and having him on the speed or a cornerback and having him, uh, guard the speed of the Rams and take take that away and so right now the book is out on mcveigh and he's got to write a new one that was an excellent excellent breakdown what's the wrongest mr you know coach wrong has been you don't have to give me a name obviously but i'm too fascinated with this where you know there was a lot of nba stuff as this offensive explosion happened where i'll talk to a guy and he'll be like, whatever. You're like, OK, or everyone's just going to take even more threes. And so just because a guy has the gig doesn't mean he's always right.

But do you have one that always stands out where it was somebody saying, oh, no, this is what's going to happen. And it was like the wrongest thing ever. Well, the worst ever was when i was a young reporter around when i talked to bill belichick for the first time um and i talked to a scout from the nfc west team who swore up and down that richard sherman sucked he was just like no richard sherman has talked his way into fame he's not good he's below average and so i i was so young you probably had this too it's like anybody who was who is insidery and would talk to me, I just, you know, reflexively believed. And so for like half a season, I was like, oh my God, you know, Richard Sherman isn't very good. And then would also say that about Carson Wentz, quite frankly, because a lot of coaches and scouts are just unusually obsessed with mechanics. Like they're like a golf swing teacher.

And if they find what they perceive as a hitch, that will spread around and it will become. I mean, it's almost like the Mark Twain quote, right? Like a lie gets half around the world while the truth gets its pants on. I mean, it's almost like the Mark Twain quote, right? Like, a lie gets half around the world while the truth gets its pants on. If there's a doubt that scouts and coaches have, it spreads so quickly. And the groupthink is so pervasive that I think that it's just, it's amazing how many guys were telling me that Lamar Jackson couldn't pass at the NFL level. And there were a lot of people, I mean, this was written late in Wentz's rookie year where there were a lot of people who thought that Wentz

had, you know, kind of vaguely similar mechanical issues where he was not going to age well or figure it out. And both of those things were completely, completely wrong. I think that most of the time, most of the time when coaches or scouts are wrong, it's usually because

they had one bad experience and they extrapolated over every single player to ever come after them the lamar stuff though i mean i i was probably part of that group but then when i'd see a andy benoit or a daniel jeremiah or a mcshay write up something about the intermediate throws that he wasn't being pressed to do anything and he would just miss them i'm like that's a problem because that's where a lot of these guys live and it hasn't been an issue at all this year um and you know even though kansas city made him throw underneath and i thought oh here we go here's here's here's what teams are going to do they're going to stay in their lanes try to contain you know if they give up 80 yards running hope it's not like the

big 60 yarder that changes the outcome of the game and they're going to give him these underneath throws and i thought he struggled i thought he struggled in pittsburgh with those a little bit so i thought that part of it was accurate but to think that he could become this like yeah anybody i don't know i don't know sometimes with players it's like well how much how much is improvement that happened and how much of it is just being flat out wrong but i mean you obviously talked to more people than i did i just was sitting there watching them and also you know reading draft guys or i was like oh okay these guys agree with what i'm seeing so i don't know yeah i mean i think that one of the things first of all lamar has to hit the throws for everything

to work one of the things i saw a great brian baldinger breakdown of this a couple weeks ago one of the things they're doing to create space for him is setting up plays. You know, I think they went three times to Hollywood Brown, and then they faked to him on the fourth play, and they hit Mark Andrews for a touchdown on the fourth play. And I think that their ability to play head games, because defenses are already chasing their own tails against Lamar Jackson, they're already spinning around, and the ability for them to play off of defense's tendencies, it's been really impressive to watch. It's, it's part of the joy of watching the Greg Roman offense this year. And so I think the, but the

thing we have to keep in mind is that there can be all the great offensive schemes in the world, but Lamar is hitting throws. He's not hitting all of them. He still throws some inaccurate throws. He still throws, you know, when you look at the PFF numbers, sort of off target passes, they're still higher than you want them to be be but he's still hitting enough throws for defenses to have to respect that part of it yeah and with the way they're running the football like the whole thing i mean it's kind of back to the golf point when they get that thing running you know golf is different golf is just a different guy but you can't run play action for 60 plays when nobody can run the football you know like so well I mean also I think

you can't I think you can I think you just have to hit the passes I mean like some of these decisions he's making are terrible I think you can do play action put a little bit of stress in the defense all this stuff but I just think you have to be a better quarterback than Jared Goff is right now that's the problem I do feel like it's going to be 2023 and Gurley's going to have like 11 carries for 65 yards and Monday morning. It's going to be like, you know what? He,

he still, he looks, he looked crisp on those 11 carries though, you know? And I mean, he's back. It's just unbelievable how long this girly thing has gone on where some people are acting as if it's still uncertainty.

And you go, how is this uncertain? There's, there is no is no uncertainty he's he's just not the same guy and it sucks and it sucks because i absolutely love watching him play so it's you know whenever you look at this stuff it's like you actually want to be wrong on this but i don't know why people are still debating this the wentz one is funny because, you know, it's North Dakota State. He plays seven games his senior year. He's older for a prospect. And you think, you're moving up for this guy. Like, this is the kind of thing where you go,

you're going to get fired immediately if this doesn't work out. You know, if he were playing at SC or he were coming out of Michigan and he was the top guy, it would just be more acceptable. It's kind of like my old Przingis-Carl Anthony-Towns debate. Granted, now Towns has surpassed Przingis, but it's like if you had him close, you'd take Towns because Przingis gets you fired quicker. Wentz was the guy that gets fired quicker, and that's maybe part of the problem there. Look, if we stay with another team that we thought was going to be good this year in Philadelphia, we know the offensive weapons that Wentz is missing.

Two receivers, his running back, maybe two of his tackles, certainly Lane Johnson right now. Is Wentz somebody that we're enamored with the arm and ignore just the decision-making? Are we so blinded by his MVP flirting season that we're not being critical enough of the times where it's like, man, you're trying to make these plays happen that are the big play every time. And it's actually screwing up your offense more. And it's great that you're capable of doing this. You're in this rare

class of guys, maybe five guys that can make some of these plays with the arm talent. But it's at least something I'm asking myself more when I watch him going, am I just reading the same stuff, still in love with that year? Am I making excuses for him being better than Dak Prescott when reality tells us he just, he hasn't been that guy this year again. Yeah. I don't think he's better than Dak Prescott. I think that for the foreseeable future, the 2016 debate is over. It's Dak. I think that he's much better than golf. I will say that once. And I think that you see how much, I mean, that, that back of the end zone drop by Aguilar is all you need to know about how much his receivers have

let him down. I saw a stat the other day that Michael Thomas has more receptions this year than the Philadelphia Eagles. Like that's a problem. And you start to think about just, you know, the drop percentage is really, really high by the the way, so is Dax. Dax did almost 5% for his drops. And it's not just, I know Aguilar has been memed, but there's a lot of guys who are dropping passes on the Eagles. And I don't know, I mean, how much has history changed if, you know, the word came out that Amari Cooper almost went to the Eagles? There was an offer on the board. I think it may have been a second round pick for Amari Cooper to go to the Eagles last year, obviously. And you wonder how been a second round pick for Amari Cooper to go to the Eagles last year, obviously. And you wonder how much history would have changed if Amari Cooper could have made Carson Wentz look like an elite passer as he did with Dak last year.

I think Dak has taken a huge step forward and can look like an elite passer on his own. But I think that Howie Roseman is such a good GM and he finds value everywhere. And he, you know, got Alshon Jeffrey for almost nothing, you know, tried him out and then signed him to an extension, right? He can, he finds these guys and this is just a rare example of him not supporting, uh, Carson Wentz in any meaningful way. They, he just needs more on the receiving, uh, receiving core and how he just hasn't gotten it to him. And so

I'm with you. Carson Wentz at this point is not the quarterback I maybe expected him to be. I think that he's not reached the MVP levels again. I don't know what that is. But I also know that it's not entirely his fault. Okay, that seems fair. And if he has a 2020 where he's back in the race and everything looks good

and they're healthier and they have a better roster, maybe this thing is still TBD. But it's just something I just make myself. You know how you feel a certain way about a player and you go, okay, watch him as if you hate him. And now what do you see? All right, one more thing before I let you go because I know you're busy, man. Kansas City, another one of those teams you're like, okay, well, they're obviously still going to make the playoffs.

And Mahomes, although some raw numbers will tell you he isn't as good, he's saying, hey, he's playing even better, which makes sense. And it's weird in this world with Mahomes where it feels like, wait a minute, this is actually only like his second year. We don't have two full seasons from this guy. It feels like he's been around forever. It's just the impact that he's had. DVOA still loves Kansas City. They're the second best offense behind Dallas by their metrics. Their defense is higher than I think anybody would think at 12.

And they're behind New England, Baltimore as the third best team. And I don't know how much you put into DVOA, but I like it better than some of the raw stuff. Is Kansas City still a really good team? Yes, they are. Because I think that when you have Patrick Mahomes, you have the capability to play like an elite team. I think there's obviously still some health concerns.

But I think that, you know, one of the – we forget, first of all, that Andy Reid is still the coach and he's a really good coach. And I also think that this defense, when you have that many new faces, I think defenses take a while to get going. I think you have the Honey Badger. Rashad Fenton came up really nicely on Monday night. I was surprised by that. I think that defenses now have gotten to a point.

We've seen this with the Belichick teams. We've seen this with Pete Carroll over the last decade, kind of post-CBA, is that you can peak in December. I remember, I don't know if I've ever told this story on this pod, but I remember I got a call from a GM two Septembers ago because I went on a pod and I said a defense sucked. And the GM called me

and I thought he was going to yell at me. And he said, no, I want to educate you in a very nice way. And he said, it takes so long for defenses to gel now because there's you know not full training camp no tackling in otas all this stuff that really it is such a work in progress until thanksgiving that if you say a defense really stinks you might be wrong sometimes and i'm not saying you know that that the chiefs are going to end up being the patriots here

but what I am saying is you can always withhold judgment on defenses until later in the season and I think that you know we needed Steve Spagnuolo to be better than Bob Sutton I think in a lot of ways he is as a defensive coordinator but there's also just you know there's still huge problems in that defense so I think they have the capability to still be an elite team I think the problem is they're not going to have home field in the AFC championship game. The Patriots are really freaking good. The Ravens are really freaking good. And I just think that the problem is not whether or not they are a really good team. The problem is there's just a lot of good teams in the AFC. Hey, Kevin, let us know where we can get the pod with you and Mace. Yeah. Ringer NFL show

posting later today. Robert Mays and I are going to do some MVP talk, talk about Dallas and New England, which is the internet traffic game of the year. It'll be really fun. We'll post later today on the Ringer NFL show feed. All right, sounds good. Okay, we're going to get to tails from the couch here in just a minute.

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I think we got to start with Luca. We just had Cerruti on not two weeks ago. And I was kind of like, man, Giannis then Luka to start your franchise I think what happens too is because Luka is so young you start thinking okay 10 years out you know that's the bet that I'm making when I go ahead and take somebody like Luka and you go okay well sort of but to me it's still almost more like a five-year thing because so many different things could change you could say that I'm being nitpicky about the whole thing and maybe I am but I looked at Luka going into last night and you're like 85

career games and Twitter's losing its mind because of what he's doing to the Golden State Warriors and I'll run through honestly I just have the first quarter stuff because that's all you really need and I can be stubborn uh you know I'm not going to say I can be I am stubborn I am stubborn when it is a thing where it is okay this person's the best player in his sport or um this is somebody who's now top five and he goes stats can tell us that play that person is playing at a top five level but it doesn't always mean that like in the grand scheme of things like these are the five guys and now with Luka I don't know what you do with him because it almost feels like any cap you're putting on it

could be too low. Like maybe I'm wrong. Like if Simmons is saying, hey, Luka is the first guy you'd start a franchise with right now. I mean, it still sounds crazy to say out loud after a year and not a month in his career, but maybe it's the right answer. You know, maybe I should be, but I always feel like whenever you're less stubborn is when you actually start making those mistakes because you know we were on anthony davis as the franchise building piece so i still think is in the conversation and i know the counter is going to be injuries but like i pointed out if it wasn't for last year's debacle he would have played almost like three full seasons in load management terms by the way um you know i look at

anthony davis like what i really want luca over him right now okay okay maybe you know what i want him over janice like that seems insane but like even in the beginning of the honest thing when everybody was starting to love him because it was so impressive from a physical standpoint if you watch those full games i'm talking like three years ago janice there are moments where you go okay but what is he and then he just got better and better and better, like Pascal Siakam, where you go, I mean, who saw him going from two years ago to last year? And then you think, okay, well, what's the next level?

Now he looks like a freaking superstar. And I ask myself sometimes, I'm like, okay, well, should you have seen these things? You know, the Pascal Siakam stuff is so crazy because just the amount of times he's touching the basketball now this year compared to last year you think okay well wait a minute should he have just touched the ball well look he wasn't going to with Kawhi but if he just had more touches ball possession would he have been playing like he is this year last year if Kawhi weren't there now would they have won a title no but that's what happens with younger players is that we talk ourselves into what the impossible can be when usually that impossible doesn't exist and Giannis has become the impossible version of whatever he thought he could be um there are

other players and I'm not knocking Devin Booker here because he's having a good year but like in the beginning of the Devin Booker thing you're like what could he be what could he be and then what happens is and it'll happen to Giannis if Giannis has like an early exit from the playoffs, which could happen because the depth of the East, at least right now, feels a hell of a lot deeper than it did, you know, in September and October when we're trying to project this stuff. If Giannis were to have some kind of early exit out of the playoffs, you know what would happen. Like, wait a minute, if this guy's MVP or back-to-back MVP, what are we really talking about? Can he carry a basketball team? You know, what happened? They had that 2-0 lead last year, and then they blow it.

So who is he really? And that's what we do. And I want to do a longer-form thing on the timeline of an NBA player, but the beginning, the impressionable nature that we all have from the outside, hoping that it could be different, hoping somebody could be the next LeBron and all these things, but Luka is doing crazy stuff, and it's hard to be tempered with

anything watching him. So look last night, uh, he went into the game coming off a 42, 12 and 11 rebound triple double. It's the first Dallas 40 point triple double in team history. He's now ahead of LeBron and triple doubles this year. And at times look, triple doubles can be a little overrated, but when it's, I think it was the LeBron triple doubles, what it was coined when it was 30, 10 and 10. So last year's raw numbers, 28, eight and six, 43% and 33% from three on seven attempts per game from outside this year, the raw numbers, 30, 10 and a half, um, boards, or excuse me, 10 and a half assists. It's the assist number first. I apologize. Nine and a half boards, or excuse me, 10 and a half assists. It's the assist number first. I apologize. Nine and a half boards, 49% from the floor, 33 ish percent from three on nine attempts. The PER, which I know is almost becoming an okay boomer thing. And by the way, the okay boomer

tweets suck. They're just, they're just not funny. Um, and everybody does them now with anything, um, that I do because long said it to once, and now people won't stop doing it. His PER was 19.5. This year, it's 32.5, and the usage rate went from 31% last year to 38%, and I'm going to get into the usage a little bit later. There was moments last night where it was unbelievably easy, because the thing with Luka that you'd say is,

okay, if there's one hole in his game, it's like, is he this killer from outside shooting? And no, he's not Steph or even hard. And even though Harden's numbers have dipped a little bit this year, but I'm not worried about Harden not being able to make threes. You're not going to put them in that class, but that's what we want to do.

Cause now we've all raised the stakes. And we're like, we want every single thing to be perfect. It's not that you rebound in an absurd historical rate for a guard. It's not that you see everything. Like he had for a guard. It's not that you see everything. He had a lob with Powell where he read the screen and roll perfectly. He had another one where he threw it up ahead in the corner to a three-point shooter that was set up before the defense was, and he saw it.

He had another play where he was in transition and went no look to Finney Smith to his right side where the no look completely froze the defender. He's got that Nash thing going on where when Nash used to drive, it was my favorite thing to watch. Steve Nash would drive and defenses just didn't know what to do. And they were always worried about the pass that people would just be jumping out of his way. And now you have guys that don't know if they should jump at him, jump away from him, come off of the outside shooters to give help. Like Willie Cauley-Stein had a moment where he didn't want to come off of Przingis when Luka had a wide open layup because he still wasn't sure. Now,

that may have been Willie Cauley-Stein and a lifeless Golden State team, which at times has looked at least like they're trying, but that team is really bad and they're historically bad defensively. And it's all going to make sense because it's a bunch of role players. And, you know, I tweeted out last night that Sam Hinckley said, Hey, I kind of like this group. Um, this would be a Hinckley by design roster. And with golden state, it's only the aftermath of multiple injuries and, and hoping to be competitive. And now they're not going to be competitive. And they were, they were lifeless last night. Alec Burks at one point had a three hit in his face. He just like early in the game is like, this is ridiculous. So Luca goes for 22, five and five in the first quarter. And you're just sitting there going like anything's possible. Maybe with this guy,

he's got this Kauai shoulder frame and he's bigger than Kauai where Kauai can dribble into you. You're in front of them. You don't know really what to do because it's almost like that imaginary girls lacrosse bubble. I don't even know if they have that anymore, but that's how Kauai is able to get away with everything he is because you just you can't get as close to him as you can with other guys and it's the same thing with Luka Luka understands the pacing of his dribble when to speed you up when to slow you down and I did compare him to Harden coming out of the draft so this was never a hey I don't like Luka I just pushed back on could we really be watching the best player in the NBA and on top

of this all the Mavs are a five seed. Okay. They're a five seed. So it's not like Luke is doing this and oh, hey, by the way, it's really impressive. The numbers are sick, but they're two and 10. No, that's not the case. So this is open-minded Luca for the rest of the season. I'm going to look at it that way. I'm going to try not to be stubborn. And it's not knocking the season. I'm going to look at it that way. I'm going to try not to be stubborn. And it's not knocking the game. It's going, are we really looking at somebody who could be considered the best player in the NBA by the end of his second season?

Is that really possible? And then what happens, too, and this is it. It's not, hey, great stats. Oh, hey, you made the playoffs. Just back to the honest thing. It is, if you're really one of those special, special guys, or there's maybe five or six of them that can carry a franchise,

then you need to carry your franchise and you can't make a ton of excuses about everybody around you. And as good as Carlisle is, and I expect Porzingis to get better because it's been a little rough here in his Dallas run, I still have a hard time believing talent-wise the roster's good enough

to take out some of those top four teams in the west but it is so impressive uh i'm i don't want to say i'm gonna run out of things to say about him because i think he's gonna do so many different things that are impressive that we'll still be able to talk about him but um that's where i'm at right now with luca okay trying to think if i left out anything there well you know i don't want to do i'm sick of the Luka-Trey Young thing, but it was weird. It was almost like Luka, once people were like, hey, wait a minute. The Hawks win the trade?

Like, actually, how about no, and I just crank this up to another unobtainable level. Who wants to talk Rockets nuggets? No one? Okay, we'll make it quick. Fourth quarter, 82-73. I told myself, like, don't – but, hey, look, the Rockets, after a bad defensive start, bad record start, they'd won eight straight.

Clint Capella, by the way, 20-plus rebounds in five straight games. That's a franchise record. He's been incredible for them. Here's a weird number that I noticed with Houston when I was digging through this stuff, prepping for it. They were 27th in pace last year, number two in offensive efficiency. Now, that makes sense because you go, wait a minute, Houston, you know, slow, dribble out,

take shot clock, do whatever. They're going so much faster now, or at least their pace comparatively runs so much faster. Third in pace, number three in offensive efficiency, and their defense was really good. I think it was like

a top five defensive efficiency during that eight-game win streak. So that's good news. That's good news for the Rockets, and, you know, we all know where I stand with the team, but, um, they were, they were just kind of a mess last night. Like, I don't look at it going up, see how they're not that good. No, no, not at all. I expect them to have a good regular season record, but Westbrook starts the fourth quarter.

Then Harden actually came back in around 10 minutes ish because they were down in this one. Um, 88, 78, this was, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to do a little bit of, because it was really 10 minutes-ish because they were down in this one. 88-78. This was, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to do a little bit of, because it was really just one of those, turned into like this bullshit fourth quarter. The officials were making a mess out of the whole thing. The way it was called all over the place was kind of a mess, so I'm not making it out to be any sort of bias.

It's just guys were getting in the post, and then they were being called for offensive fouls, and now players can stick their arms through the offensive player's arms and get their arms hooked in there when the ball is even in the play and then that becomes some sort of hooking play so that was weird but there's also there were bad charges called there was all sorts of stuff going on that i didn't love but harden had a really bad stretch we're down 10 he has a bad pass at the top of the key um craig goes for the ball as it's being you know it's rolling back towards the Nuggets basket. Harden falls down totally on purpose.

Rockets fans are going to say, they're going to tell their kids that it was actually a foul on Craig, if you can get that meme joke. Craig throws down what was supposed to be a 360, more like a 270, but we give him credit for it. So then the next play, Westbrook actually had a pick and roll. It was a nice play. It was a miss because it was a really good defensive play.

And Harden just lets his guy run away from him. And then Harden did some weird, like, I'm playing center field thing where he was so far removed from play, it was laughable. And I cut the video of it. I sent it to one of my buddies. I'd be like, what is this? What is this? And that turned it from a 10-point game to 92-78.

And then Harden came right back down because he was mad and kicked his legs out and, of course, got the free throws. And they challenged it. And I don't know why coaches are challenging any of this stuff. You think the pass interference things are being ignored by refs? The coaching challenge stuff in the NBA is like, nah, whatever. We're done with you. I didn't really like Denver's offense much either here.

I mean, Denver really just did a better job with Houston. Again, it was just a mucked-up fourth quarter. But Denver had these moments where they're getting Jokic on these high screens, really simple stuff, high screens. He gets the switch with the smaller perimeter player. Murray has to play it. And Murray didn't get him the ball. Murray apologized to him once.

Murray tried to get him another time. They called a bad offensive foul on Jokic. And there's really not much more that I can. Like, I didn't look at this and go, wow, Houston's really scaring me now. Not at all. And, you know, Denver, I still resist that they're going to be better than the Clippers or the Lakers, maybe even Utah. You know, I think they get Houston. I just, I don't know.

I know how good the record is. I know what the scene could be but I'm gonna have to see like longer prolonged stretches of of really I don't know buying into to Denver as hey I have them first I think Jalen's like the only guy that I ever hear talking them up uh as much as he does and if we look at it right now yeah Denver's seventh 17th in offensive rating and I know know their defensive rating is obviously not off the top of my head. Yeah, I thought they were top 10. They're eighth.

So not a ton on that one. Not a huge compliment and certainly not a huge criticism of either team at all. Celtics and Clippers. You didn't get a ticket to this one, Kyle? No, I don't get Clippers tickets anymore. They're too good good because they're good yeah plus i'm a nix guy i don't i'm not like a celtics guy okay um you're a nix guy sorry right that sucks for me too well i don't get your fandom though don't tell me you like

duke but also notre dame football no, dude, I'm from New York. I'm not from Boston. So why do you like the Pats? Because we were in a football house. And I was like paying attention around 2001, 2002. I was like, hey, this guy's pretty good. Hey, you know what? That worked out for you.

I got a jersey from like 2004. So I don't, you know, I got, I at least got some creds. I'm going to jump into Clippers-Selts. That game was a lot of fun last night. But first, this from Sales Genie. This episode is brought to you by Sales I got, I at least got some creds. I'm going to jump into a Clipper Celts. That game was a lot of fun last night, but first this from Sales Genie. This episode is brought to you by Sales Genie, a product of InfoGroup. If you're in sales marketing or own your own business, listen up. For nearly 50 years, InfoGroup has helped professionals succeed just like you. We all know the number one reason salespeople and businesses fail in general is because they're challenged in finding new customers, right? That makes sense. Hey, I'm not even, I'm not even, I don't even have my own startup right now. And I'm reading

that sentence going, Hey, I can relate to that. I'm here to tell you all you need is the right audience to call on or market to. Sales Genie is the proven way to find, acquire, and retain customers. Now, Sales Genie can't make you pick up the phone or bring your next customer to your doorstep, but it will provide you with all the B2B and B2C audiences for prospecting, whether it's calling, direct mail, email, or display advertising. If you're serious about finding your next customer and growing your business, give Sales Genie a call for your free 14-day trial. Call 866-567-0684 or go to www.salesgenie.com forward slash Ryan, R-Y-E-N. That's salesgenie.com slash Ryan, S-A-L-E-S, genie, G-E-N-I-E.com slash R-Y-E-N, Ryan, or call 866-567-0684. I might just go on there to see what the hell's going on

what would you be doing kyle if you weren't producing high level podcast do you think you'd be think you'd be cold calling i was a janitor before this and then um like like goodwill hunting is that why you and matt damon got along so well yeah well i was the janitor and then i i realized i like grounds keeping better like driving the trucks where were was the janitor, and then I realized I like groundskeeping better. I like driving the trucks. Where were you a janitor? Spack and Kill Union Free School District in New York. How old were you? 22?

Okay, I mean... So 20, in between college, and then after, they offered me a full-time position at the groundskeeper, I was going to take it. And then, you know, I came out here instead. I have so many questions. You graduated from college? Yeah.

And you ended up as a janitor? Well, speech communications. It was in between college. You know what I mean? I was work summers as a janitor, you know. Oh, all right. Wax the floors and shit. And, you know, then um i started to switch to uh what's the name i switched to groundskeeping i thought it was probably like working with my hands it was cool got the driver no the groundskeeping thing yeah but i just would imagine fresh out all right you hadn't graduated

college i'm just thinking of right so then i graduated that summer i was doing groundskeeping again and i was like yeah all right they offered me a full time. And I was like, actually, I'm going to go to L.A. Thanks, though. Yeah, I could see how moving to L.A. to work for Bill's company was more enticing. The groundskeeping thing, I'm with you. I thought perhaps there was a chance you graduated from college and then right out of college, your first job as a janitor. And I would imagine that you were like. To let down.

I don't. No offense to any of the janitors out there. I'm just saying that during orientation the school wasn't like and in four years we have an unbelievable placement in the janitorial services industry um that would not be something i would think parents would be like well this seems like a great idea to take out a ton of loans i will say you get to see the underbelly of the public school system which you know a lot of people only think that you know teachers sleep in their classrooms or something.

It gets crazy in there. That's all I'll say. It gets crazy in the public school system? Oh, yeah. Teachers sleeping with janitors, cheating and whatever and calling people's wives and, oh, God, crazy. It's so scandalous. It really was, dude.

You would never think. I just thought it was about simple green inventory and keeping, making sure you clean your mop. Right. Okay. Uh, let's talk Celts. They were, Oh, a 16 to start from three. Kawhi started slow. It's the first Kawhi Paul George game. And then they do the thing, you know, I should just double check this box score because the, the whole, like the zoo bots deal and how they, how they do the minutes with this is really funny. because the whole like the Zubats deal and how they do the minutes with this is really funny. Zubats actually played more minutes. He played 22.

So he was in there at the end. He just didn't take any shots and he took three. And then Harkless, basically it ends up being Montrez and Lou Williams that play bigger minutes than Zubats. And Harkless, Paul George played 37 minutes last night. He had 25. Kawhi, it was a quiet Kawhi night until a little bit later. Jason Tatum, unbelievable third quarter, unreal threes.

He just looked awesome. That jab step gets you going the other way, hits it right in your face. So it was not one of those nights where I'm going, hey, is Jason Tatum going to be Jeff Green? Because I do have those moments where I get nervous about that. The big situation with Boston is going to be a problem. It just is. I mean, Grant Williams hasn't been great,

but it's a lot to ask a rookie, hey, by the way, a rookie that had the ball and made decisions at Tennessee, and that's why he was so good. Like the stuff that made him really good and makes him a smart player, and he shows these flashes of really smart plays. But when you never get to have the ball, and then you're supposed to make an impact as an undersized guy playing a front-line deal, it's not that great.

But they did play him with Kanter. Kanter hasn't been playing minutes the last two games at all. I don't know if that's just easing him in or if it's Kanter. They played him with Rob Williams at some point. And the Celtics were up here. I mean, they had a lead in the fourth quarter. There was good stuff going on with Tatum. Marcus Smart did not have a good game. We're going to get to that. We did not have a good offensive game. But then the Clippers are just taking

threes all over the place. And I looked at it. They're actually not a huge three-point attempt team as far as their totals this year, but they took 45 of them last night. So did the Celtics, by the way. The Clippers are 18th in three-point attempts per game, and they're 18th in percentage from out there, but they couldn't stop taking them last night. So the fourth quarter, you've got Kemba, Wanamaker, Jalen, Grant, and then Williams. And of course, wanamaker's out for tatum grant's out for smart when they go smaller williams is out for tice and then the clippers we already told you their closing group for all this i just love what the clippers have where if you're building a team like it's great in theory to say hey we want all these interchangeable wings that can shoot can score and can defend everybody the clippers have the best one in the league who's the best player in the league. And somebody else in Paul George, no matter how you

feel about his ability to be the number one kind of alpha guy, which I just don't think he's built for, he is a top 10 version of the same thing, shoot and defend and switch. So the dribble drive stuff they can do, spacing it out with two top 10 guys, their guards are going to be Lou Williams and Beverly. And Beverly was unbelievable on the boards last night. He just ate up the Celtics. They did a bad job paying attention to Beverly, but it's an effort thing with him. Much like Marcus Smart, there's just certain players that are elite effort players,

and you wonder why they're always around everything, and they're going to play forever and make good money. It's because they've just decided, like, I'm going to go ahead and be this guy. So I do respect those players a lot, even if at times it kind of drives me crazy. But the Clippers have this dual wing thing where it's really brutal to deal with. And even though I've said at times, like, hey, I really like their depth, I don't know if I do love their depth. I just don't know that it's going to matter.

I don't know that it's going to matter in the playoffs. I think the one thing you're saying, and I've heard it already, but I mean, it is a good point. If you're doing a Lakers matchup thing, it's who's guarding Anthony Davis. Can Montrez really hang with him and chase him around the whole time? At least Montrez is going to play with the kind of energy needed, but we're talking about a completely different size. So basically you're saying, is there a really active seven footer that can go chase Anthony Davis all over the place? His name's Giannis and he's probably not available right now. And Durant's the other one he's hurt. So not going to happen. You're not going to get that piece. It's perfect. But with those wings, whether it's Harkless,

Kawhi, George, and I know all of us have made the mistake at looking at like-sized bodies and thinking, okay, well that guy can guard LeBron for 15 minutes or he can do this. I did it once with Damari Carroll and I'm annoyed that I'm even reminding anybody in an audience that at one point I thought like Damari Carroll was like, oh, well, you know, he's long. No, LeBron eats up all those guys because he's LeBron. But if you want to put a bunch of bodies on him, that's a huge plus because that's, you know, we're still talking if it's a peak Kawhi, that's a lot better than anybody's options. And they have a second one and maybe even, look, I'm not saying Moe Harkless or or any of these guys are going to shut LeBron down, so just shut the bleep up and finish the point.

All right, so Kawhi, after the slow stretch, hits a big three, then decides to just dunk on everybody. Celts still up, though. Marcus Smart had a lob that was blocked and went in, so they're up six, and then it just was a mess for the Celtics there at the end, and a lot of it was the credit to the Clippers' defense. Kemba gets swallowed up.

They had Paul George on Kemba. They had Beverly on Tatum. You know, Paul George hits Montrez, so it's a two-point game. Then Smart starts up with this airball stuff. He airballs a three. And then after the airball, he let Lou Williams run right past him in transition. And then Lou Williams hits a three. And then it feels like, okay, the game's going to be over.

And then Tatum pushed off on Paul George, hit it tie it at 97 it was a push-off everything's a freaking push-off now all the time SportsCenter makes you think it's everybody's getting crossed up because some 23 year old kid from Syracuse doesn't know the difference between a cross up and an offensive foul rant over I've already done that rant before but this was about the Clippers defense and they and they won it in overtime. And that's the problem. At times, you'll see with Kemba with Boston, despite that eight-game winning streak, Kemba's going to get beat up sometimes, and it's going to suck. And I think you saw some of that last night. Now, Marcus Smart is kind of the story of this game because I know I've had my problems with him.

He now is on this stretch. He had these two big air balls. He didn't get back on Lou Williams. And there was another ISO play where he like 14 seconds left on the shot clock and he was on the right side. And I don't know if he was going to initiate anything or if he was just going to go for it. And Steven's like, all right, no offense here. Timeout. He's now seven to 20 last night, one of 11 from three. Game before that, 5-12, 3-10 from three. Night before that, 2-16, 1-8 from three. But the four-game stretch before that, he shot it really well. My point with him is always, as great as the Kawhi defensive play is

where he goes and throws it off Kawhi, there are just not many players that are willing to make that play in this league. They just don't understand it. And he does all of those things, and it's awesome. But I know the offensive numbers are better. I know the fourth quarter numbers are incredibly efficient, but if you're watching this, loving all of these smart shots, like it's just, it's a simple, it's like my Westbrook thing. You could just take five, you know, those five horrible shots you take, just stop taking those. Right. And then it's like, no, no, you need him.

No, you don't, you don't, you've got Kemba. No, Hayward clearly hurts them. The Celtics have this really good kind of lesser version of all these interchangeable wings with Jalen and Tatum and Hayward's healthy that the Clippers have and these other teams aspire to, which is going to make weird in certain matchups. The Kemba, when another team wants to go really big at him, is going to hurt him. And that's where Hayward comes in because his playmaking, where Kemba maybe takes. That's the thing is the Clippers don't need to trap you. The Clippers just eat you up. They had a play where it was a Marcus Smart and Tatum exchange, and it was defended by George and Kawhi.

And I think they switched it, and then that was it. They didn't have to trap anything. That's crazy. That's such a great advantage to have that kind of stuff. i don't want to make it in because i the smart thing has been much better this year but there are those those games where you're just like oh god you're just going to shoot 10 11 threes like i know the numbers are a little bit better but seriously especially when tatum had had that kind of third quarter that he'd had so clippers are the better basketball team i think you'll end up seeing that later on but the celtics start to this and that

eight game stretch and how solid they've been defensively and how different this team is moving the basketball. It's been a lot of fun to watch them so far, but credit to the Clippers for getting that one at home after Tatum hit that three to tie it up. I spent a lot of time closing out Friday's podcast on the Miles Garrett incident with Mason Rudolph. And basically my biggest premise just became this thing that we do in America where the person who did the worst thing is right in front of us. And then we act like there's a million other reasons why we should blame all these other people for the guy doing the wrong thing. I am not a moralist. I am not. And it's not like I can't sit here and have a sympathetic lean towards, hey, this is right.

And this is wrong. But I just know that I don't really feel comfortable saying like this person is the worst person of all time. And what was really interesting after I did that Miles Garrett rant that a lot of people liked, I had two different NFL sources reach out to me, people with actual teams who said, you know, Miles is probably one of the most impressive people they've ever been around. Very similar stuff. I met him. I never pretend I know those guys in a car wash. I know Chris Long, you know, feels really good about him working with Waterboys. And I know the Waterboys organization made a statement and it's an unbelievable charity and something I've been lucky enough to be a part

of for a couple of years. And it was very consistent, like Miles had a bad moment and everybody saw it. And then it just becomes this overwhelming thing where I almost think as a society in the moment, we're really bad about talking about what punishment is deserved. If the NFL had come out and said, hey, spend the rest of the year and that's fine. Okay. You know, if they had said today, you know, where we've lowered the suspension, we've heard his appeal, we've lessened the suspension. I would have probably been okay with that. And that might have not been popular.

People that are asking for the suspension and bleed into next year. And there's probably a weird way to phrase it, but I don't know. I just think we do this thing where it's like, oh my gosh, like we want instant death penalty. And then seven days later, like probation's fine. Now this is a weird turn because part of the appeal was that Mason Rudolph used a racial slur, which is news to all of us a week later. Not to say that it didn't happen. I will tell you that I'm never comfortable as the white guy saying, no, that's not true, because I know how that plays. If I were still at ESPN and on Get Up or something that morning

and surrounded by former NFL players, primarily black NFL players, it's just always a weird role to be like, oh, no, I don't believe him. Although black players, I've heard numerous black players today say, you know, I'm not sure about that. I don't know that I believe him. If the slur were used, it would probably be caught on some kind of mic in the NFL. They had a spokesman today saying Brian McCarthy said the league looked into Garrett's allegations that Rudolph used a racial slur last Thursday and found, quote, and found no such evidence. Joe Thomas, who played for the Browns, you would think if we want to get into this world of bias,

I don't think Joe Thomas is very biased, but he'd be trying to protect Garrett. He was like, look, these guys are all mic'd up. You should be able to go ahead and find this stuff. Appeals officers are Derek Brooks and James Thrash. So we're talking about former players. Wouldn't they be motivated to try to find a way? Well, maybe they're just motivated by trying to find the truth here. But I think the problem for Garrett here in the timeline is that if that were the case,

was it that you were so reserved after the fact when you were interviewed that you held it back because you wanted to use it in just the appeal? Or if you're doing the, okay, well, real talk, is he doing the thing where, hey, you know what? Let's use the race card on this one. It's your wallet, you know what? Let's use the race card on this one. It's your wallet. You know what? Let's go with this.

Because it's a really hard thing to argue against. Like, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, does the NFL know with absolute certainty? Is Garrett possible? I mean, is he capable of making up this lie to protect himself? Could his people have gotten to him saying, hey, we just go with this play because it's hard to argue against it. It just makes, you know, it's going to look bad for somebody to say, no, that didn't happen. You know, it's one of those things you're never truly

comfortable with, but it was, it becomes one of these topics. It's really actually impossible to debate because, because none of us, like I can say the timeline seems off. Why now, if not then, I can say the timeline seems off. Why now, if not then? Okay, but then I know the counter to that, as I've just explained. And isn't there some possible way we could find this? And yet there's other guys in the field saying that that didn't happen. I've heard some people say, well, only two people know, Rudolph and Garrett.

Now there's a bunch of people that were around him. You would think somebody else would have heard it. Or now you have Browns teammates that have to answer this. And some have said, I don't know what happened. And others said, I don't know that Garrett would lie. So maybe in this moment, you know, Garrett, I was certainly not aligned with all the other people that wanted this kind of like multi-year banishment for Garrett. Cause it's just not, I don't really believe in that stuff. And I think everybody cools down after a few days, but if this isn't true, it's worse than hitting somebody in the head with a helmet. But I don't know. I don't feel comfortable saying,

and I don't know how anybody else could feel comfortable saying, which way they're leaning on this one. Everybody have a great weekend. I hope you enjoyed the extended double LP. We're all excited. Pod, please subscribe, rate, and review. We'll be back with Chris Long on Monday.