The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Russillo Summer Book Club: ‘Conquistador’ With Buddy Levy and Life Advice

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

For the final chapter of his Summer Book Club, Russillo welcomes in ‘Conquistador’ author Buddy Levy to learn more about Hernán Cortés, King Montezuma, and the last days of the Aztec Empire (0:24). Plus, Life Advice with Kyle and Ceruti (43:14)! What do I do if I don’t love my job? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Buddy Levy Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The book is Conquistador. Hernan Cortes scoring off against Montezuma in the Aztec Nation. And Buddy Levy, a professor and adventurer, joins us. McRispy fans, there's a new jaw-dropping McRispy at McDonald's. It's called the Firecracker McRispy. It has the crispy, juicy, tender chicken you love, topped with crispy jalapenos and a super tasty sweet and spicy sauce. You'll wish this spectacle of flavor never ended. Try the new Firecracker McRisbee today at Participating McDonald's restaurants. The book is Conquistador. They look at Hernan Cortez and King Montezuma and a battle of a part of the world I think we were all kind of thought we knew, but I know it much better

after reading Buddy Levy's piece here. And Buddy joins us now. He is an accomplished author, an adventurer. He's got an awesome, awesome bio that I do want to get to a little bit later. But Buddy, thanks for doing this today. How are you? Right, I'm doing great.

I really appreciate it. Yeah, I just popped in last night after doing a spent two hours recording an episode for History Channel on the Bohemian Grove. So this is the secret society. So this is a bit of a pivot, but I'm ready to roll. I know, I mean, the amount of research, I just wanted to give you props on.

I was going through the notes, the timelines. It was one of the first times I just remember how much I hated in school when I would have to do bibliographies and note everything and all this stuff. I was like, man, that must've been, that must've been the least fun part. It was actually very helpful to the reader because there's all these different moving pieces, the characters, the timeline, but let's get into it. Let's start with who Cortez was as a person, the year this all started, because there was

this flirtation with this part of the world, the new world that Spain was busy trying to get involved with while other people a little further north, but just who Cortez was at this stage of his life. Right. So, Cortez was considered a Hidalgo, which is kind of a low level nobility. And at the time, the early 1500s, the Spaniards had already arrived in Hispaniola, Cuba, the West Indies, and had sort of laid siege to these islands and were taking over and creating governorships and turning the native peoples into slaves. And it was quite brutal. And Cortez and young men of his ilk knew that there

was a possibility to rise up through military ranks, gain fame, and also wealth and riches, because there were rumors filtering around that there were precious metals and such, and also the acquisition of land. So Cortez ends up hopping on a ship and arriving in the New World and settles in Cuba and pretty soon is like befriending the governor there, this guy Diego Velasquez. And the next thing you know, Velasquez has heard that there are small populations that some early expeditions had seen on mainland Mexico, and he decides to send Cortez as the leader of this expedition to go find out what's going on over there. And so that was sort of the backdrop. there. And so that was sort of the backdrop. There is some also sort of sidebar stuff where Cortez and Velazquez didn't get along completely. There were rumors that Cortez had slept with

some other person's wife, and that was considered pretty bad form. He actually escaped out of a window at one point. And so Velazquez had some misgivings about Cortez, but he was an ambitious young man, uh, and you know, he was sent to lead this, um, expedition to go find out what was going over on mainland Mexico from the islands. So he lands a Vera Cruz, uh, we're talking about 1519. Exactly. Right. Okay.

Uh, we're talking about 1519. Exactly. Right. Okay. And there's these rumors of, of this inland Oasis, uh, this leader in Montezuma because as soon as they get to Vera Cruz, like Montezuma has people already realizing of these, these ships have anchored and that they're setting up. Um, Cortez very early on is like, I need an audience with Montezuma. But what was understood about Montezuma

and the place where he was living, which essentially sounds like paradise from the reading. Yeah, well, that's really interesting because the Spaniards, when they arrived at Veracruz, they were initially, you know, the native population right on the fringes, on the coastline, like fought them off for a while. And so Cortez and his men are like held up on these humid, hot banks of the ocean.

And they end up starting to, they're able to defeat a few of these small groups and then continue inland. And one of the things that's really amazing, Ryan, about their initial arrival is that Cortez lands with 16 horses. And at the time, horses had gone extinct in mainland Mexico, in Mesoamerica. And so when Cortez arrives and unloads these horses and begins running them up and down the beach and shooting cannons, the local population are just, it's basically shock and awe. They're like, they've never seen gunfire and they've never seen horses and they're freaking out. So they run off.

Montezuma hears about this and in those days he would send runners, like people would run multiple marathons from Tenochtitlan, which is over the mountains in central, in what is now Mexico City. And so Cortez begins to have correspondence with this guy through these runners who are drawing pictures of Tenochtitlan and he's communicating with them and sending back notes saying, I want to meet you, or at least explaining to these people that he wants to meet them.

And so the Spaniards really didn't know much about it. They didn't know much about the city. And the other thing that's crucial is that the runners begin to bring gifts and there and these gifts are elaborate gold pieces some of them as large as like a car tire huge gold or Nate heavy gold and so Cortez is once once more of that and and keeps and they're trying to get him to leave and Cortez says you know I want to meet the main guy I want to meet this one Azuma. Yeah. There's a couple of mistakes here early, uh, as we can go back and replay the results

where it's like, well, you should have just run them off immediately in Veracruz. And then you probably shouldn't have shown up with gold saying, Hey, here's all this gold we have, but please don't come visit again. Um, being it where I love the quote that you had from Cortez that said that essentially his people suffer from a disease of the heart, which can only be cured with gold. So now, Cortez is like, all right, and you make a great point here. And anytime I've ever looked through anything like war, a claim, the life that someone with no access to nobility, their only path to any kind of life beyond average is, like all of these people coming from all over the world

being like, well, maybe if I fight in this war, if I get appointed here, if I can figure this out, it's kind of like the Hamilton model. Hamilton was a brilliant person and they knew that he needed to go to America to look, but in a very quick amount of time, he completely stands out in Washington and the next thing you know, I mean, he's on it off and running. So whenever I think about Cortez, he's thinking, well, I have nothing to really

live for, even though it's not like he's a commoner, as you've pointed out, like he is so incredibly single-minded. He is so driven throughout this entire story and all these times where you think everybody else would have just given up at this point. He does not. Now, once he's determined to get to Montezuma and to Nochtitlan, what happens with the burn the boats quote? Because I was waiting for that moment. Is it fair to say that burn the boats is right in theory, but the accuracy is not 100%. Yeah, that's true. So after, some of Cortez's men are becoming weary of all of this, right?

So they don't have the same opportunities that their leader is gonna have, you know? They're just soldiers. And so there's like 500 of them and there's a bit of dissension, right? And so after they're in camp there and Cortez says, you know, we're going over the mountains to this place that none of us have ever been.

Some of the men start to say, actually, we want to go back to Cuba. We're out of here, you know? And there's a bit of a- Because there were allies, right? There were a lot of people that were actually more, had more allegiance to the guys back in Cuba than even Cortez, correct?

Exactly, and he's kind of gone roving. In fact, he slipped off under cover of night, really. But at any rate, Cortez realizes that he may have a kind of mutiny on his hands. And so it comes down through history that he burned the boats. But what he actually did is he sent some of his men, and they're like 11 ships, and he sent some of his men to go bore holes in the bottoms of the boats and he sinks them. And at this point, there they are on the beach, the ships have sunk and there's no going back. Cortez basically says, I'm going to go meet this guy, we're moving forward or we're going to die. That's it. I mean, it's pretty,. It's brazen, you know, it's just really

ballsy. So what I also love about this story is just the sheer numbers that we'll get to later when we talk about, you know, two of the most significant battles of this timeline, but where Cortez on his way to Montezuma is going to stop by all of these villages, you know, populations where I think, you know think some are really small all the way up to maybe a couple hundred thousand people, it would sound like from how large some of these outposts were. And when he shows up, he's incredibly manipulating. He's very, I think he's just smart. He's a politician on top of being this military genius, which I think is actually fair to say considering the success that he has. But he needs numbers. He needs sheer numbers. He needs allies. And it sounds like there was a lot of people that were

more than willing to sign up with him, not based on fear, but wanting to get revenge on Montezuma and what the main focal point of this region was all about. So take us through that a little. Yeah, that's really fascinating. I'm glad you brought that up. And Cortez, you're right. I mean, a great manipulator, incredibly politically savvy, ambitious, and also really good at creating allegiances. So what ended up happening is that at one of these villages, and by the way, you know, he would come in there, immediately raise their temples, which were, you know, they were the temples that they prayed to their gods, of which there were many, and then immediately put up a cross and say, by the way, Spain now owns this and you have to bow to the king. Now, this didn't always go over very well, but one of the things that he noticed was that in one of the villages, these emissaries

for, these emissaries for Montezuma arrived and they like quickly took 20 or 30 men as prisoners and brought them back to Tenerife, Chtlan and Cortez is like, what's going on? And they said, well, these are taxes that we have to pay. Taxes in the form of our best young men. And they were being brought back for human ritual sacrifice. And when Cortez figured this out, he thought, well, maybe I can convince them that we could change this paradigm a bit. We could change the narrative. And so he started to befriend some of the leaders and he said, look, I've got arms, I've got horses.

If you give me men and start going with me, we'll go confront Montezuma. And Montezuma at that point, I mean, the empire he controlled had, it was like 80,000 square miles from Mexico City to Guatemala and something around 5 million people. And so not all of them were happy with the situation. And so Cortez begins to gather indigenous troops and bring them over the mountains towards Tenochtitlan. And by the time he arrives, he's got significant numbers. Yeah. Because there's some unbelievable early skirmishes where they're completely outmanned, but the cavalry advantage, especially on open territory, just sends the

opponent into complete disarray. I mean, there's times where you're writing about this and it feels like maybe there's 200 people on the Spanish side and there's thousands of Aztec warriors and yet they're just so disorganized and overwhelmed in an open setting from the cavalry advantage that you're just like, this is incredible that the Spanish can even pull this off and that Cortez is like figuring out all these things on the fly. Which I also live to kind of the underlying, I don't know, it's not a theme necessarily, but it's just something to be aware of, of like the advances in technology when you're faced with a superior opponent and how quickly the Aztecs inside the Notched Elan and how quickly they're advancing because of all the things that they're realizing that they're up against. So there's something to be said of that. That's happened, it's not specific to Mexico, it's happened all over the world, the course

of history. But when you talk about his pursuit of gold versus spreading the word of his God, whenever I read back and think of, I remember Paul Thoreau and the Happy Isles of Oceanic would just talk about like the different places that were settled by like American missionaries and how their culture was just altered, like irreparably so. And the places that are still more traditional

to their cultures are like always the places that you would enjoy seeing now a little bit more. Um, you know, look, it could be debated a couple of different spots here, but when Cortez is faced with like his pursuit of gold, his pursuit of conquering to make something of himself, I, I have to imagine the human sacrificing part of it wanting to end that was, was actually earnest because it is a, like, I can't stand reading about when they show up to be like, let's take down your idols and let's put up my idols. And

everybody's like, what is this cross? Like we're putting this up. But when they're talking about stealing, when Montezuma's men are stealing children to sacrifice them and rip out their hearts because their belief is that their God needs a human sacrifice for the son to come up every day. And whoever was the first guy to try to figure out, hey, you think if we just start sacrificing our own, the son will come up every day and like how long that lasted, which is its own story. Right. I just imagine that Cortez and his people had to have been horrified because it's such,

it's not just the graphic event, it's so graphic in these areas where these sacrifices take place in the collection of limbs and skulls and the blood everywhere. It had to be horrifying to anybody not of that world. Right. I mean, and they're witnessing some of this. So yeah, you've got, I think it's a clash not only of culture and empire. And I always look at this as kind of like, Cortez is an alien arriving at a place, you know, and these two people have never seen each other, had no knowledge that the other even existed. It's one of the most amazing meetings in human history.

This is, you know, obviously when Cortez gets to Montezuma. But you're right, before then, Cortez has witnessed Montezuma. But you're right, before then, Cortez has witnessed human ritual sacrifice. I believe he was truly devout, for sure. But he was certainly also using his devotion and his religious fervor and zeal as a kind of ongoing justification for what he's doing, because he's killing people too, you know, and so there's carnage on both sides But yeah when Cortez sees all of this he realizes You know, I'm gonna I'm willing to help these people put a stop to it. And and so let's see how many of these Members I can get on my side

Okay, so while he's gaining all these allies that are upset with Montezuma and like, it's just the way of the world. It's the way it works. Hey, here's the epicenter. Here's the person that's in charge and here's these satellite posts everywhere. And it's like, man, if you can actually run this guy out, that improves my situation. I think there was also a lot of confusion to be like, okay, now you're just part of

Spain. It's like, all right, where do I sign? Like, I don't care. Maybe they were horrified by the horses and cannons, but he's still communicating with Montezuma through these runners, suggesting to Montezuma that he has all this like respect for him and grace and we just want to understand your world. So they finally, like after months and months of don't show up, don't show up, don't show up, Montezuma receives Cortez and his army. And it's one of the oddest relationships.

So really go wherever you want over this first time that they visit. Yeah, it's really amazing because Montezuma allows Cortez to enter the city and you know, by the way, this place is remarkable. It's 200,000 people plus. It's bigger than any city in Europe at the time. And the men and Cortez are blown away by what they see.

There's this resplendent city built on a lake with these giant causeways or bridges protecting it that you have to ride or move through to get to the city. It's very well guarded. And when Montezuma allows him to come in, I mean, he's being followed by all of these attendants who won't, aren't allowed to look Montezuma in the eye or they're dead. And so Montezuma invites him and the Spaniards into the city as guests.

Now there's speculation that he really is trying, he's not afraid of them because he's got numbers, but that he's really wants to learn, he's inquisitive, he wants to learn about them. And he probably feels like he could kill them at any time. But like, they're a novelty to him. He wants to understand who these people are, where they come from, who their leader is. And so Cortez is invited in, he gets to stay in Montezuma's elaborate palaces. They're posted, fetid, wine, and dine. And the weirdest part to me is that, I mean, Cortez's ticket eventually flips the script on him.

And he's kind of like, well, you're a prisoner, but you can move around with my guards. And Montezuma begins to take him out on the big lake at Tenochtitlan in his boats. And Cortez gets to see the entire layout, the whole many miles of the perimeter. And this is going to come in handy later because he starts to understand exactly how this place is set up I mean, it's got aqueducts irrigation floating farms there are

Marketplaces the ballgame, you know where you play to the death and Montezuma's like there's sort of weird bros for months and It's very strange and you know, I think they're both on kind of fact finding missions, like trying to figure out who each other are, who's got power and control, and it literally goes on for months and which has some also has some repercussions because a lot of the lower Aztec nobility and the people are wondering, like, why is he hosting these interlopers who have been killing people along the way, you know? And so there's a little bit of dissension among the Aztec populace too, where they're like, we don't really think that

Montezuma is handling this correctly. Well, exactly. There's a lot of different stuff that we get into, but I want to really focus on the final, the last two battles because Montezuma then, as you said, the script flips. It's almost like dueling arrogance where Cortez's superiority is easier to see and understand, but yet Montezuma is like, whatever, fine Like come survey the whole thing. Because then once Cortez is on another mission, um, somebody underneath Cortez ends up leading to this bloody massacre right in the center of town. Um, Cortez has to come back and they, they basically have to like now fight for real. Even though if it feels like it's incredibly disorganized and they're too

like far in the interior, this is not like Cortez's plan like you know deep down he's always thinking of taking this place over even if he respects it he has he has he tries to be like mutually respectful of Montezuma because of his position but ultimately he doesn't really respect him or his people and they're still so turned off by the human sacrifice that there's no way of avoiding the superiority or a complex that Cortez would have. But when they get ousted, there's a real delicate moment there where it feels like, okay, the Aztecs probably feel great because they overwhelmed Cortez in this group and they barely escaped with their lives. And now because of the surrounding areas, they're playing favorites the entire time, which happens again in the last battle where there's all these allies that can turn on you quickly with their

80,000 person army and say, you know what, actually we're back with Montezuma. So take us through like the Montezuma part of it, the first battle, the change of power and Tenochtitlan and then Cortez trying to figure out a way to actually do what feels like at that stage of the story impossible. Yeah, so that's really amazing. In fact, the dissension becomes essentially a riot. And at some point, Cortez and his men after, Cortez gone for a while, but his men bring out Montezuma onto this big terrace to show that he's still in charge. And people are hurling rocks and spears at the Spaniards, but Montezuma actually gets struck.

And it looks, you know, it seems like he either gets hit by a rock or a spear and he gets killed, at which point the Aztecs are like, well, okay, the Spaniards are out of here now. And so the night you reference is called the La Noche Trieste, the sorrowful night and the Spaniards have to get out of there. Now they've got all this gold, right? So they have also found this room full of gold, like from the floor to the ceiling, literally. And they've been

pilfering that for a while. And so once they realize that we're outnumbered, the Spaniards realize we're outnumbered, we've got to get out of here. They take off over these causeways they're being shot at by men in these canoes. I mean, it's just a, it's carnage. And many, many Spaniards died, but they managed to escape. And Cortez ends up getting like struck in the head and falls off his horse, goes into a coma, but like comes back.

And what's remarkable is that Cortez has decided that the only way to get into this place, and this is the most innovative military thing I've ever read about in history, over the other side of the mountains, after escape, he has this ship- Well, by the way, after escape, you mentioned the coma, so at that point you're like, okay,

I mean, everybody is hurt, they're losing horses, they have no numbers, they have no supplies, they have almost nothing. And yet Cortez decides, and I would agree with you, I need to build a Navy. Right, right. And so he has this ship builder guy, Martin Lopez, on this lake, and then he enlists all these Plex Kallen

warriors and bearers, like 50,000 of them right this other tribe and he ends up building 13 ships the brigandines they're called building them on this makeshift harbor kind of place taking them apart carrying them with all of these men back over the mountains, which are high, by the way, some of them are as high as 12,000 feet. And then setting up this, they dig canals like two to three miles from the main lake, reconstruct the ships. And then when the time is right, they launched this armada of 13 ships and arrive in a total

surprise on the city of Tenochtitlan and begin just firing cannons and sending off boats. And the surprise attack is remarkably effective. And Cortez is able to retake the city. Montezuma is now dead. His brothers and other lower leaders are fighting for power and position. And Cortez has taken over the city. Now, he isn't able to completely take it over. In fact, it becomes called the siege. It lasts about three months, right? Because he's able to get on the perimeter and then there's still, you

know, there's still resistance, right. And so for months on end, Cortez maintains, you know, small assaults and starts to cut off the aqueducts. He's gonna, he's gonna cut the water off from the city, right. This becomes like a really, really dark chapter in history though, because the other thing that has happened is that inadvertently, Cortez's men, the Spaniards have infected the populace with smallpox. And so now, the Aztec people begin dying in just droves and droves and droves. It's a sickening scene. And Cortes realizes this, that the resistance starts to diminish. And so over about a three month

period, he weighs him out. And eventually, you know, tragically, for the Aztecs, you know, Cortes comes in, raises the city to the ground, burns it, which is so ironic because he himself, in letters to the king, has said, it's the most remarkable and beautiful place I've ever seen, yet for power, I'm going to raise it to the ground and burn it and build churches and colonial buildings on top of that. There's no denying his, it's just the awe that he had for the city because you have like his words in your book. And it's just like, look, there's no way that they can do it without it because they weren't making any progress. But if you think about Cortez, the politician, the military leader, the number of things that he's thinking

about, I mean, from the moment he stepped foot on Vera Cruz, it's very clear that he was determined to be his own person and take any risk necessary. But he's also dealing with people that are aligned with leadership in Cuba. And then there's all these other people hearing about this because this treasurer ship is sent back to the King of Spain and then that makes the rounds. And so now he's got people that are his countrymen showing up to Vera Cruz that are actually supposed to take over for him. He's trying to balance all of these different villages that are either with him or against him while he's trying to.

Uh, I mean, look while he's trying to, I mean, look, he's a despicable person in the history, but there's certainly elements of him being like, how could anyone have ever balanced all of these things working against him over this three year period and still be successful? It's- Yeah, you know, what was amazing to me about him too, is that he understood, right, I'm glad you mentioned

that the gold, so they've been sending back gold, the crown gets a fifth of the gold, right, the royal fifth, and then if you keep the crown happy, you know, you can begin to set up governorships and take over lands and now you're gonna be immensely wealthy. Cortez understood how long it took information to get from one place to another. So he was always like, I'm going to do this. And by the time the crown hears about it, it's going to be five months later.

So then by the time he gets a response, he figures if I've already taken over the city and now Spain owns it, what are they going to do? There may be some squabbling among other people who are fighting for spoils, other governors, but Cortes is always ahead of the game. He's always just figuring out how to beat the system. He ends up being appointed the governor of New Spain or the, you know, captain general governor of New Spain. I mean, he gets one of the highest posts.

And with that comes, like, Mexico, you know. I mean, yeah, he's basically in charge of Mexico, right? Right. I mean, like, and so, you know, he's willing to have these, the Crown a little bit disgruntled with him for what he knows he's gonna be eventually able to manipulate and smooth over, which he does. I can't believe that I'm gonna tell you that I've been to Mexico City, but I was there for F1

and it was also the Day of the Dead parade. So after a little exploration, well, it was bad to get out there and I wasn't educated on it I mean I kind of knew a little bit about what it was and now as I read this book I'm like, I can't believe you didn't go but then saying that when you're in Mexico City in the busiest week of the year Yeah But yeah, I mean I

Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. So I did I mean I was gonna say go back another time because it's really amazing to go back and like, you can literally hike up these hundreds of steps and stand on top of these altars and they're still there. And I mean, it's literally so steep that if you trip, you're gonna fall to your death, right? And there's no guardrails or anything, but you sort of cast yourself back to what was happening

and try to figure out, you know, how this belief system allowed them to do what they did. And then sort of juxtapose that with how the belief system of the Christians allowed them to do what they did. And, you know, I think you just can't be too moralizing about it probably. Yeah. I have to imagine being given mushrooms and then having your chest cavity cut open while you're still alive and then your heart ripped out to be used for food.

That would probably be one of the worst fucking times imaginable. Yeah. I mean, and, and, uh, you know, and so this was, this was really hard for the, uh, the Spaniards to square, you know, Right. But at the same time, like every time Gort Cortez is playing the angles, playing the angles and there's this and like, I believe you, I think he was devout.

He did mass every day, the whole thing. I don't care. I mean, the, I just think it's so like beyond everything else that any sane person would realize, like just because you show up, like I'm signing some piece of paper, you had another guy, you had a public notary with you. So now this is just all yours. Like it's just.

The Spaniards were smart enough to bring lawyers. Yeah, probably. They brought lawyers and scribes. Yeah, we're getting this down, you know? Yeah. So, hey, by the way, we just, we met over there in a hut and now we signed this paper so now it's all this and we're going to need you guys to kick in a fifth to the king and you know, nobody, nobody, like it's such an absurd thing, but then the religious part of it, like there's never a time I'll ever read about something historically where

it's like, and then these new people showed up to say, your religion is terrible. Although yes, I think kidnapping neighboring children from villages to make sure the sun comes up tomorrow. Well, I think we're glad we've moved past that as well. Look, this book, my dad gave it to me as a gift. It was awesome, because I know it came out years ago. So anybody that does the kind of work that you did on this, and it's just, it's an easy read. I know there's probably some stuff that we've said here and be like,

if you had fun reading all this, but I did, it just was, it was a lot of fun to read. It went really fast. I know you've done a ton of stuff. How does this compare maybe to like the stuff that you're the most proud of that you've done in your life, buddy? Oh, wow. That's a great question. Yeah, this, this probably took the most research of any book that I've written, because I didn't know anything about it before I started. You know, I bit off a pretty big book to begin with here. It was like, I had written a book about Davy Crockett. And then I wrote this, you know, wrote this book, and I'm like, Oh, I'll just start with like, the conquest of Mexico and the and the changing forces of the new world. That's a small theme. But yeah, I've been, I'm kind of a chameleon. I've written about everything from the first Europeans to descend the entire length of the Amazon to, I've just finished a three book Arctic exploration and expedition kick. So I've been on the ice for the last five or six years in my brain and physically too I've gone to Spalbard and I just,

my newest book is about the first people to try to fly blimps to the North Pole in 1907. You know, just like crazy stuff. I really like humans at the very edges of survival and what they can bear, you know? And so it's been a fun ride, you know? I'm kind of all over the map with the subject matter, but usually it does involve adventure, expedition,

and a good deal of carnage and survival. By the way, my son, who is a major fan, shout out Gooch Valley Glizz Gobblers, Boise City League champions. Uh oh. In hoops, okay? For Ryan, if you were made commissioner of a new nationwide initiative to retool the youth through collegiate sports ecosystem, what would your approaches and focus be? Oh my God. I wasn't ready for this. Does it have to be specific to collegiate or does it have to be? Look, I think the best chance we have, I think we're really protective of young people that we'll

have no relationship with. I've always thought this where like when somebody who's young fails will say, well, they failed because they were young. And it's like, well, what about the middle aged guy that failed? Like, you know, the old guy fails, the young guy fails, but the middle aged guy fails, but we don't get to put a label on him. So I don't know that it's fixing collegiate sports, but I think we're heading towards a time where we just need to accept that there's certain people that look at athletics as their profession and stop pretending that everybody needs to be well-rounded to make people that don't know the other person feel better. That's a great answer. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if that means that by the time they get to college that they're more prepared to just like what, look, you're a professor, school is very important to me because I wasn't good enough at

other stuff. But I don't know, man. I think sometimes some of this stuff can be like really outdated. It'd be great if everybody looked at it as this awesome opportunity and this great learning experience. But I think like the special, like I think they do this internationally with soccer. They do it internationally with basketball. They seem to do it a lot of other places here where we're still trying to serve like two different things with the, like, look, nobody's going to tell me that you're, I can't tell anyone that they're wrong. It's like, Hey, you better have a backup plan, get your degree, make the contacts and all this kind of stuff.

Like in theory, that should be a good thing. That should be something that everybody wants. But I think sometimes we get a little, I don't know, we get a little outdated with the approach when it comes to speed. Yeah, I appreciate that. Last collegiate note, I've been at Washington State long enough to have had the following Wazoo students. Drew Bledsoe.

Good student. Drew Bledsoe, good student. In one class I had River Craycraft and Luke Falk in the same class. Nice. Both of those students. Yeah. Craycraft. Yeah.

Craycraft's still out there doing it, man. Getting reps, you know? Love it. But the only funny story I have about Drew is that at one point he was, he'd done this quarterback sneak against Cal, right? And I didn't really know him yet. And he did this quarterback sneak. It was like on first down or something.

He goes like 30 yards and trips and falls on the one yard line and fumbles into the end zone and Cal gets the ball. So I had granted these papers over the weekend, you know, back in the day when you wrote red pen on white paper, and I came into the class late and I knew he was in there. And I walked in with all the papers and I intentionally just tripped and fell on the ground and dropped all the papers and said, Oh, I fumbled and Glensoe just stood up. And at that point I was like, Oh my God, this guy's huge. And he was, I mean, he took, he was very good spirited about it. He laughed and I was like, you know, whatever. But I had Gleason too. I had Steve Gleason, a great honor to have

him as a student. No kidding. Yeah. And another tiny sidebar on Gleason, he, it was a, it was a spring semester class and he walked up to the end of a class and he said, Hey professor, I was wondering if I'm going to be gone a lot because I'm playing both baseball and spring football practice this, this spring. And I'm like, wow, football. And I saw him standing there next to him and the guy wasn't very big, you know, and I go, what position to play? And he's like, I'm going outside the linebacker. And I go, come on. And I played rugby, I was pretty scrappy at that point. And he just smiled

and he rolls up his sleeve and there's this freaking major gun, right? And he's like, and also I'm kind of fast. And so I spent the next season watching that guy run from sideline to sideline, make like every tackle on the field. I think he may have led the Pac-12 in tackles that season. And I was like, I never doubted anyone again after that.

Any Robbie Calgill experiences? I know I watched Robbie Calgill a ton, but I didn't have him as a student. All right. Because I'll just tell you, I loved that Washington State basketball team. Oh my God. Loved that team. I loved all those guys. Yeah. We had a couple squads. So you work with Mike Leach who I've interviewed in the past, numerous times everybody misses him. Geronimo,

I think I've one interview we were asking about his offense and he just ended up on Geronimo. Like this is before you had even done the book with him. Was the connection as a professor at Washington State? Is that how that happened? Yeah. When I learned that Mike Leach was coming to Washington State, I had understood that my agent, Scott Waxman, had done Swing Your Sword. He sold that book. So I said, well, you know, I'm fascinated with Native American history, too. So I just went to his office, right?

I've been teaching there for 35 years. I went to his office and I brought a few books and I said, hey, you know, we share the same agent. You know, I know your interest in Geronimo, would you read a little bit of what I do and see if we might be able to collaborate, right? And I mean, he was really quick to come back and go, I love Crockett book, let's do it, you know, and he just sent me, it turned me loose on the history part. And then he

wanted to do the leadership lessons aspect of it. The most amazing part was really just hanging with Leach and spending a year and a half or so in this process because like I would write history and then give him the chapters, right? And then it turns out he was a nocturnal dude. So I'd get a call at like 1130 PM. I'm in bed and Leach would be like, let's go over chapter three word by word. You know, and I'm like, what? What? I gotta teach tomorrow, man.

So he would like go through the chapter and I'm like Mark and he's like, I don't like the way that sounds. I don't like the way that sounds. Also, how do these guys get their, how do they make moccasins while they're running from the cavalry? You know, and where do they get water?

And he was just like, he's so inquisitive and expansive in his thinking. And the other part that was I mean, I got to become friends with him to get to know him really well. And the other part was like, we would go over to this cafe morrow in downtown Pullman and and you could never go anywhere with coach leach. Because he just talked to everyone. So I got like a timeframe here of a couple hours to work on something and we're in there

and he's talking to the baristas, he's talking to these other folks, you know, and I'm sitting there going, Mike, we've got to kind of get on this, right? And he's like, oh, you know, whatever, I'll call you later tonight. It was just like, yeah, it was amazing. I'm not a regret based guy, but I will say the only regret I have is that he asked me three different times to come hang with him in Key West, and for one reason or another, things didn't work out. He would always, you know, so I regret that.

He was also really interested in like, conspiracy theory and stuff. So he would text me and I was on this TV show for a while and we did a couple episodes, including one on historical mysteries, including one on DB Cooper. And he'd be like, texted me about DB Cooper, is there anything new? And one of the last texts I have from him, he was like, have you heard about that place in southern Chile that's kind of like southern Chile's area 51 we should try to go there you know yeah but what a great what a great experience hilarious and and brilliant man the other thing that was absolutely remarkable is in the couple years I spent with him working on this book, I don't think we ever talked about football.

Yeah. He always wanted to talk about history. You know, he always wanted to talk about, I mean, he would apply it to football and he would apply football to history. But he never, you know, I think the only thing I ever said was that he should probably, we both played rugby. He was at BYU, I played at Idaho. And he said, I said, you should probably get up, you know, either an Aussie rules or a rugby punter. That'd be good. And he's like, well, it doesn't matter. I don't punt.

That's true. Hey, man, everybody that gets to know him really liked him. So yeah, Empire of Ice and Stone, that came out a couple years ago. So I can't wait to check that out. But for those that want more, there's a lot that we didn't get to, obviously in this conversation. It moves really quick. Conquistador, thanks to Buddy Levy, man, for your time.

Hey Ryan, I really appreciate it. It's been a great pleasure. I love your show, love what you do. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. Thank you. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, email address, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Okay, let's go with a common theme, but a new attack on a young man's dilemma. 22 going on 23, 62 listed at 64 in a high school basketball roster.

I like where this kid's head is at already. 175. Great job, buddy. I think I may do my next license 67249. See, see what happens. See if anybody says anything. Although it's kind of a lie. I don't like living as a lie. So maybe I won't do it, but that would have done in my twenties. I graduated last May and I'm in somewhat of a personal dilemma. Before I explain, let me preface by saying, I don't think I have it all figured out. We agree. Good on you. I know I'm only 22.

I know that nobody's first job is their dream job. I am grateful to have my job. Lastly, things could be a hell of a lot worse. Lifelong Timberwolves fan, I lived through 14, 15 season. All right, I graduated with a business major and an English minor. Hey man, shout out to the English minors. Learn how to tell stories. Organize your thoughts.

Passion for literature. A month after graduating, I landed myself a job that pays relatively well for my age and in a field that has some family history. The problem is I have absolutely zero passion for this field. Welcome to life. For most of us. My role is in marketing specifically,

and the upside is that I'm learning new and useful hard skills that I can take with me in the future. I just know that this field is something I don't wanna be in long term. The crowd groans. I'm too young and too new to this job role to know, A, if I could end up being good at it, B, if I would enjoy, could benefit from using these skills that I'm learning but in a field I'm actually passionate about. I am very interested in other fields, but these other fields tend to either pay less, require more schooling, or be difficult to enter into. So I'm not interested in that.

I'm interested in other fields, but these other fields tend to either pay less, require more schooling, or be difficult to enter health, wellness, nutrition. Well, you can get to health and wellness with an Instagram account, but nutrition, travel agency, teaching, history, literary arts. My dilemma poses a few questions. Do I continue to work in a field that I have zero passion for when I could be using my valuable, flexible younger years to get started towards my desired areas of interest? Or is it too early to even be worrying about my future? I'm stuck between feeling ungrateful and wanting more. I'm working, I worked landscape past tense. Construction seven days a week in the summers growing up. I used to say I'd never complain if I was in an air conditioned office.

I think of myself as a realist. Is this just me being idealistic? I sometimes wonder if I'm just a little bit of a little bit of a I used to say I'd never complain if I was in an air conditioned office. I think of myself as a realist. Is this just me being idealistic? I sometimes wonder if a magic genie granted each of us humans, all of our wishes, would we still find create something for ourselves to desire? Yes.

Something to nitpick. Yes. I'm answering these on the fly because I've always felt that I don't care who you are and what job you have. Like they may publicly share. Like it just, yeah. Like we like bitching about stuff, man. Constant push for growth and wanting more is what made us successfully evolve.

But can it also be a curse? The Rolling Stones said you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you might just find you get what you need. I think this guy sounds like cool. It sounds like he needs to go back to school. Do I sound like I need to be prescribed as sedative? Should I just go off the grid and live off the land in remote South America?

There's a bachelor party we could link you up with. Yeah, hey, it's probably over by now, but yeah. You guys are the best, Wolves back. Hey man, you're not alone. But I always think it's good. I think it's good when you're asking these questions. You're too young to be this worried about all of this stuff all at the same time. But it means that you're smart enough. And you wrote a great email, you touched on a million different things. But like

welcome to the party, man. This is what happens. And this is why college is the toughest. I think it's one of the toughest adjustments because all of colleges you think it's real and it's not. It's fucking fake. It's fantasy land. There's a reason why there's guys in their 40s still fucking miss it. Okay. And then you go into this with this massive wake up call of these moments where you thought you were ready for them, but you're just not. I think the biggest thing, if I had to like just do a couple sentences on my own personal journey of discovery, all right, it's that when you're younger, you seem to believe that there's going to be this end line, like beating the final boss of just pure raging happiness. Right.

And you're going to get, if things work out and you put in the work, you get the right breaks and all those different things you're going to build towards this moment of like elation. And the biggest trick is that really all the awesome, like happy carefree stuff has already happened, man. Just happened. It just happened. Yeah. Now I do think that that version of happy

can be replaced by the happiness and pride that you'd feel in having children. And I do think that that's the newer version. I shouldn't say newer version, but I think people understand what I'm trying to say is that whatever elation you felt then is an entirely different, super intense, your ability to love something in a way that you've never ever felt before. And it becomes this priority because now your task is this. Uh, that's why I think having children is actually really great for a lot of people.

Okay. But if you're just talking, and I don't mean it selfishly, but if you're just talking about your own path of what it is, is that I felt like it's like, Hey, the big joke is that there's always something else that's going to be a challenge. There isn't a final boss in life. It's just a new boss or a new guy. And I'm not talking about like your workplace

boss, but hopefully you're actually driven enough to continue to have more challenges. And like some people would look at it and be like, I want to just get, get to a place where it's just smooth sailing, where there are no hassles and I'm going to avoid all hassles by never wanting to grow and look something different. just get, get to a place where it's just smooth sailing, where there are no hassles and I'm going to avoid all hassles by never wanting to grow.

And, you know, look, some people grow enough to, they have no hassles because they're just so important in everything you're doing. So I'm kind of going in a bunch of different directions at the same time, but I can only look, I'm generalizing a bit here, but I'm also thinking about my friends, the way we talked about our lives and what we were going to be like as adults in our early twenties. And you're just, you're just, you, it's not to say like, Hey, life actually sucks and it's really hard.

I think you start to just accept that. There isn't this perfectly smooth, obtainable passage through the rest of your life, maybe for the rare exceptions, but we don't argue exceptions on this podcast. But everybody kind of feeling the same way that you are, but you're now feeling it for this first time. And as far as like, should I get it in or out of this field when you graduated a couple months ago? I'd give it a little bit more time. You may learn things about how you're interacting with people. You may learn more about your priorities, all this stuff, nobody actually really likes

those entry level jobs. Very few people are gonna be like, it's fucking awesome. Everybody's in charge of me, I don't know anything I'm doing, older guys are super pissed just because I'm young, I fuck up all the time, I make no money, and my dress shirts aren't nearly as cool as the other people. Okay. Like nobody's going, this is the best.

When can I shop at Brooks Brothers? Yes. Some people get really lucky with those entry-level deals or somebody knows a person and then they get hooked up with, maybe you're in a field and you get really lucky early on. Maybe you're in a field that you're super passionate about, but I wouldn't worry about, you sound like you feel like you want all this figured out by September. And I'm just telling you, that's not going to happen.

You're going to learn things about yourself that you don't even realize you're learning. It's essentially saying like you are now in a class that you don't, you didn't even realize you registered for. And once we get to six months, a year from now, then you're going to be like, oh, okay, this is actually what all of this stuff was about. Yeah.

I mean, I'm not even going to go down the whole thing where you ask like a bunch of successful people their starting point, or like fresh out of college has like nothing to do with whatever they're doing now. I mean, everyone will tell you this. I mean, but the other thing is, is like, it sounds like he's a bit, what do you say, business and English? That's his two things. Business, if it is business, it's sort of like communications or something. It's like, you're not really sure. It's not specific like computer science or, you know, like narrow down things.

It's sort of like, well, that sounds like a good idea. So, I mean, it also like, I wouldn't actually take out going back to school. Like somebody's gotta have a fucking master's degree out there. And if you feel like maybe that's your thing and it unlocks some. Some different sort of jobs, like you're you're in the part where it's the, it's never going to be easier to do that than like this time. So, um, I wouldn't, I wouldn't.

Throw that away and I think the further you get away from having like. Deadlines and textbooks and shit, the harder it is to jump back in. But if you really think, well, maybe I can add something to this that'll make me be able to teach what I wanna do or whatever the fuck it is. Maybe I wanna teach English or like you said, whatever it is with more schooling, I don't think there's a better time than doing it now, especially if you got a little taste of this

and you're like, don't look at through the lens where you are now, look at fucking Bill in the corner office and you're like, do I even want that? So if you're thinking, you just want to switch it up. I think, I think the, the going back to school thing is probably the, it's probably the time to do it now. And the longer you don't just really think about if that's if there's like some other shit you want to unlock

or if it's like, there's something on this plane that you exist on now, that's kind of attainable for you. Yeah. I don't have much to add on this. I think you guys said everything I would say. I do find it kind of interesting though that, and like a lot of people have written about this and talked about it, like how like happiness I feel like now is so tied to what your job is. Whereas like our parents even going back however long you want. Happiness starts at 6 o'clock. I feel like people could find happiness in other things.

They'd be like, hey, I go to my job and I do my job. Is it my favorite thing in the world? No. But then I have all these other things that I do that make my life full and complete and make me happy as a person. And I'm not saying it's wrong. It's just very interesting how, because I've thought about this like in like 10, 15 in like 10 15 years is everyone just gonna I mean you could say this about right now but is everyone just gonna want to be an instagram influencer or a tiktok influencer or whatever

social media thing there is because like that seems like a cool job then I also see that like very little few people even make money doing that ever but it seems like so many people are putting in all this effort to like be famous or be an influencer and like no one's actually even making that much money per person and it's like are people going to this effort to be famous or be an influencer and no one's actually even making that much money per person. And it's like, are people gonna shift back to just doing normal jobs or wanting, or it's being a plumber, for example. My dad grew up plumbing, heating, and air conditioning.

Is that gonna have a swing back to like, hey, there's gonna be a ton of guys that are plumbers and then have these awesome things on the side that they do? Or as you said, Ryan, have families. So I don't know, I'm not saying you're wrong to just say, hey, my career is defined by what my happiness level is in life, but are there other things that you can also do?

Like if you're successful, and you said you're successful in whatever this early entry-level job was, and maybe it can set you up for a very, you know, at least rich life as far as money and wealth, are there other things in your life that you can find happiness in? I don't have the answers to these things, I just kind of find these discussions interesting.

Yeah, do you have a buddy taking a chance on a startup business or something? I don't know, if you got some time for that, keep your options open. I would start here, okay? You're asking for answers that you're just not going to have, so you can drive yourself crazy

for all these different answers right now, but I think the positive, as I say to anybody with this kind of mindset early on, your awareness and wondering and asking these questions is a, is a massive positive that you want to take stock of where you're at, what it means for your own runway and all of these things, but what you can't do is you can't do a personal update every single day of your life or you're going to drive yourself fucking crazy.

All right. But the day exists. But what you can't do is you can't do a personal update every single day of your life. You're gonna drive yourself fucking crazy Alright, but they exist your happiness should not be a daily stock price Like how you feeling? Yeah, 12 minutes ago. I was pretty down And again, I don't think that guy was by the way when he said like the whole idea of him being outside All he thought of is if I could ever be in a corner or not even say corner office That was Kyle's reference. I could be in an office with with Office with AC I'd never complain about anything I would be looking outside going like I'd rather have the break think about that every once in a while the freedom. Yeah Yeah, give me the break. Give me the dump truck. Dude. Let's fucking go. Where are we headed? I

Thought about many times if I could be like an 18 wheeler driver because I don't mind being alone. I like listen, you know, I don't, I don't mind driving. I like listening to podcasts. I feel like I could be able to entertain myself for a while. I thought about that, but I don't, I don't know. Maybe a regional one. Just up and down 95, like maybe a regional one. Yeah.

Like when you come home every day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come home every day. You're already calling the shots. You haven't even started yet. Well, no, there's all the, on the trucks, they say like 95% of our drivers come home every day. You're already countless shots. You haven't even started yet. Well, no, there's all the On the trucks they say like 95% of our drivers come home every day. I'm like, that's not bad, you know Wait, is that in like home to the hotel or like survive what we don't know just does come home every day

So my god, right? Yeah, what if you show up to the office ago? Hi, I'm here for the job. I want to be in the 5% I don't want to come home. How do I never come home? Show for the toothpick. Kyle, I was thinking about you with a toothpick the other day. Can we get that out of you for a summer? I think a toothpick-

Oh, when I tried to quit- A toothpick changes everything. You know what? They got these great cinnamon ones. They're like dipped in some sort of cinnamon shit. Helped a couple of buddies quit. I tried it. I still needed cigarettes, but well, at least my brain told me I needed cigarettes. But yeah, I'm not just a drinking.

I like drink. You're going to smoke. Also, great point. No one's ever had six beers and be like, you know what I could do? I could go for a piece of wooden cinnamon right now. You'd be surprised. Reminds me of the old Big Red. Anyway, we got another one here. Because I don't think we didn't read this one about whenever we have a female woman listener, we usually remember these. Yeah. So, all right. I love the evolution of the female woman thing too, by the way. It just, that's just the way it is now. Dude's just tagging me on stuff when somebody's calling people females? They're like, I really don't want to be in this fight. I Actually guys catch the rule was yeah, you got it backwards. I

Think I do. Okay guy. I'm interested in looks like a 70s porn star and I want him to cut his hair, right? We've not read this we would remember that one. Nope. Yeah, that's five eight, five eight, 135 bench, 135 bicep curl, 32 and a half. That's a great bicep curl. If we're talking about dumbbells, 32 and a half. I think she's probably, well, 32 and a half though. That's probably the full deal then. That's still really good though. Anyway, Player Comp 2020 playoffs, Duncan Robinson,

because I can get hot from three when I needed to, but otherwise my basketball skill set is just, uh, generally just above average, incredible off the ball cutting. So I hope you have that in your game too. If you're going to be talking about Duncan Ryan's Rudy Kyle, I need your words of wisdom. Sorry. This has been long mid to late twenties.

Woman who's currently single. I've been off and on with a guy I've been friends with for about 10 years. So they met when they were teenagers. The initial time we started seeing each other was about five years ago. So let's say 20. I know on and off generally means there's an incompatibility there, but in our case it's basically been because of timing, being with other people, various times, et cetera. I moved across the country after college, a few months after we'd started seeing

each other. So we ended things not wanting to do long distance for who knows how long. However, I moved back home a year later. across the country after college, a few months after we'd started seeing each other. So we ended things, not wanting to do long distance for who knows how long. However, I moved back home a year later after not liking where I was living. Needless to say, the guy also mid late twenties. Sorry, this is a bit, well, wait a minute. Uh, I've started hanging out again. Um, let's call him Tim. I get the, I know what Tim, I get the feeling he wants to explore something serious with me. We've never been in a straight relationship with each other, given that we were

now both living in the same area, both single, et cetera. However, all caps, there's one problem throughout most of our friendship. He was clean cut with short hair, which I love is it looked good on him. But Tim recently wanted to embrace the long hair, like below the shoulders long and mustache look. He's had it for about a year now. I am very not attracted to guys with long hair like this. That is a really perfectly worded. I am very not attracted to guys with long hair like this, but we have a connection that I truly believe in. It looks so bad to the point that he looks like a 70s porn star. So like a bad one or all right that's gonna be left for debate as well. Some of those guys look great, credible abs. You want to talk about Jill and all. I understand that I have no say in his hair

especially because we are together. However, this is really hindering my ability to have the same level of physical attraction to him as I did before. I know that generally it's a deep breath. If hair is, um, uh, I know that generally if hair is a make or break issue with someone, then it becomes, uh, then it means the feelings must not be that deep. However, it looks like an entirely different person with this look. And at the end of the day, physical attraction matters. He has a good heart. I truly believe we can be compatible over the long term as I've had feelings for him since we were teenagers.

I think this is mutual. We have a connection. I've truly never had with anyone else. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. So I'm around, want a relationship with him. I just really, I want a relationship with him. I just would really want him to go back to the old short hair look. How would you approach this? Um, it's going to come down to the simple math of humans. Are you hotter than he is or is he hotter than you are?

Now these weird, let's let it get gross phases that guys are going through, ladies. I feel ya. I feel ya, sister. It's fucking annoying, because a lot of dudes are just pushing the boundaries of what can I get away with that's still somewhat socially acceptable.

We didn't do this back then. The guys had gotten tightened up. Now I used to let me, I know nobody wants to believe it, but when I had a full head of hair and I was younger dude, I used to let it get a little rascally, but then that was always my move. These every 30 day motherfuckers

looking like an extra Lego set. I would let myself not look great. And then when I came back in Thursday night, right? On the scene. Yeah, I know. Yeah. I mean, look out. Like if your max was a seven.

Whoa. Yeah. Well, guess what happens? Like it's still two points up from a five. You know, it's like you were walking around here like a five for a little while, bro. Now he's like a seven. Now men have just decided, what can I get away with? I see dudes that I can tell are kind of cool.

They've got the shorts. They've got the long John Elliot sweatshirt that's hanging a little lower. They've got the hat. Maybe there's a ring. There's always facial hair. The hair is shitty as can be. And they're always with like a nine, you know, especially when you're out here in California, you're just like, that guy's killing it? Like, yeah, that guy's killing it.

That's the new look. That's the hot look. That's a great fit right there. But what's going on with his hair and all this stuff? Like he looks like an asshole. So I feel for you girls. I feel for you. If you aren't hotter,

you might be screwed. There is some good news here. She said it's been like 10 years of friendship and they were friends first. You might actually be able to get away with this. Not necessarily a joke, not necessarily, hey, we need to have a talk. But I think there's sort of a somewhere in between.

The hair is really fucking this shit up for me, man. There might be a way. I honestly think's sort of a somewhere in between like, you know, I just, the hair is really fucking this shit up for me, man. Like there might be a way. I honestly think peak hair on a dude is probably Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. Little stubble around the face, shoulder length. I think that's peak. If you gotta have long hair, just be like,

what do you think about this? And just show them like Aragorn, like in the middle of a fucking battle. It's like, yeah, it looks a little wet, not sure if it is, but it's shoulder length stubble. But here's the problem. Here's the problem with that. And this goes off of what Ryan just said.

The guys that do those looks, that pull those looks, because I'm in there, I'm in the trenches trying these things out and some of them work and some of them don't work. No, because like I wanted to go for that Jon Snow kind of half bun up thing and I looked like an idiot. I didn't I don't think I looked very good. I don't remember any buns with John Snow.

I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Last samurai sorority. It was it was a look and I do miss my bun. I'd bring the bun back if I could. I just don't want to grow it out again. It's just a huge pain in the ass.

But there are some guys like Legolas or like Aragorn, who Legolas looks great as well, who like, okay, it's like one out of a hundred guys can pull that look off and look hot. And that's the Ryan's point, like all these guys that do these weird things and have a weird look, like, oh, you saw one actor do this and he was like made up and it was, he had great lighting because it was probably a photo shoot.

And you're like, oh, I could pull that off too. I've listened, I've been there. And that's what happened okay guys do these things and they look bad like I'm testing out the mustache again right now it might look terrible I don't know I'll look back at it you're an idiot but I just shaved it off I'm like let's try it but so anyway to get back to the point to ask this guy to just do that you might not like that either like you might just want them like high and tight cleanly shaving and go from there I

think you're on to something though you you might just want them like high and tight, cleanly shaving and go from there. I think you're onto something though. You could probably just drop a, like, Hey, I'd marry you if you cut your hair. And just like, yeah, that's a way to do it. Like hanging out with friends, not joke a little bit of a sting to it. Yes. There's a way to navigate that because you've been like through the, through regular friendship together. Or just make a little jokes.

All just make jokes about the hair. It'd be like, Oh man, we got, you know, whatever shaggy from scooby-doo coming over here, you just make like bad jokes hair. Be like, Oh man, we got, you know, whatever shaggy from Scooby Doo coming over here. You just make like bad jokes that she clearly knows that you don't like the hair, but that aren't going to like ruin your friendship or whatever future relationship you want to have. Put on Nat Geo prison abroad and then throw it on and be like, Hey, we should watch this so you can prepare for when you get busted.

Um, you can also take a picture of you together when you're teenagers, put it on the fridge. But I think there's a silver lining in all of this. Right now, you're banging an ugly guy. You're just not into it. Are they banging? I can predict you. No, no, they're together. Did you read between the lines here, Rudy?

All right, fine. Well, they said in between things. All, no, no. Did you read between the lines here? So Rudy. All right. Fine. Well, they said in between things. And all right, my bad. Leave it alone. You're going to be dating this hot guy soon. You're going to, this is, this is temporary. Nobody just goes into this and this is who I am now. This is a test. He's in his mid twenties.

This is him just feeling himself a little bit. He saw some guy, maybe it was, I don't know, he was getting coffee. Maybe he saw a guy recycling, maybe the volunteer center or something like that. He's like, maybe I could pull that off or whatever. Like, sure, he has this mustache going on right now that looks like the guy who just had like an awesome supporting role in a new summer flick. And then at the next public appearance, people are like, whoa. Because that's what I think those guys do. Like really hot actors are like, how bad can I actually look? Go through your favorite actor's looks.

There's always some moment where it got so easy for him. He just was like, can I pull this off? Can I just do this? I mean, Jordan had a Hitler mustache. Think about that. He's like, I'm this important. Yeah. That's a line.

That's a line from a comedian, by the way. Oh, OK. I'm about to say, what should I Google? I don't know who it was. I don't want to change my whole, like, ad revenue. I don't want to change the way they give me ads now. I just want to be careful with this one. No.

Look up, uh, I'm trying to think. Chaplin? Should I go chaplain mustache? No, no, no. Cause that's kind of, that's kind of, I don't want to start getting like small mustache, commando glasses, ads on mine. So Jude law ugly. See his hair fell apart.

It's a mess. Sooner than you should have. I hate to say it for a role. Yeah. See, you don't know, do you? You don't know. Damn. I think Jude Law is,

like Eric Clapton every now and then would like totally change his look, but that felt more like designer. Anyway, here's the point. This has to be temporary. You could playfully hint at some things. Maybe you take the clean crop picture of you two together when you're a teenager,

you put it on the fridge or whatever. I mean, obviously, at this point, you could just, yeah, yeah, you could just kind of say it. But I think the good news is all of this is really temporary and then all of a sudden it's gonna be like you're dating an entirely new guy. So I see good things in your future. Yeah.

Yeah, typically guys too, as they settle down, I mean, again, you had a long way to go, but they kind of tend to be the more conservative route. Yeah, the hair kind of gets cut. Like that's how I've been for the most part. Like I just wouldn't grow my hair. I tried a lot more things when I was- She could shave her head.

Than I do now. She could do that. You can go Natalie Portman from The Forbidden. Yes, just like, hey, look, I'm going for it. Like it's just so much freer this summer on the way. Don't you love it? Aren't you hot, bro? Right? Like, yeah. Want another cup? Oh, you love it? Aren't you hot, bro? Right? Yeah.

One other cup? Oh, you don't? Okay. Why not? Why not? Why not? Okay. All right.

Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve. Thanks to Wargon. Check out our show on YouTube. It's the Ryan Russell podcast. We're in this podcast. Ryan Russell, the podcast Must be 21 and older 18 plus in DC and present in select states. Fandual is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC gambling problem.

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