The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Scott Van Pelt on the Masters, and Trent Dilfer on Tua, Lamar, and Kyler. Plus: Harden Trade Rumors and NFL Awards.

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

Russillo gives out his NFL awards for Week 10 (3:00) before he is joined by ESPN’s Scott Van Pelt to discuss Dustin Johnson’s historic win at the Masters, check in on Tiger Woods, talk about what makes Augusta National so special, and more (23:00). Then Ryen shares his thoughts on the rumored James Harden to the Brooklyn Nets trade (53:00) before he is joined by Super Bowl champion Trent Dilfer to discuss some of the NFL's Sunday games, including Cardinals-Bills, Patriots-Ravens, Dolphins-Chargers, and more (1:03:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, we have a great show. This is a great Monday show after another week in the NFL and some NBA rumors with the draft this week. It's unbelievable. And then Van Pelt from his return from Augusta. So a big win for Dustin Johnson. Today's episode of the Ryan Versilla Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network

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Choose insurance that always brings its A game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. We're going to start with awards. We're going to have Van Pelt join us. We're going to throw a little James Harden stuff at you, and we'll finish with Trent Dilfer. That's the plan today. All right, let's do some awards. We're going to have Van Pelt join us. We're going to throw a little James Harden stuff at you, and we'll finish with Trent Dilfer. That's the plan today. All right, let's do some awards.

The first NFL award I want to give out is called the Inside the Box Award. Wait a minute. That doesn't sound like anything anybody says at a corporate retreat. Inside. I want to be a little bit more inside the box. Well, everyone that commented on Cliff Kingsbury being hired by the Arizona Cardinals definitely wanted to keep thinking inside the box? Well, everyone that commented on Cliff Kingsbury being hired by the Arizona Cardinals definitely wanted to keep thinking inside the box because none of you liked it. Now, can I find somebody that liked Kingsbury being hired? You know what? I was going through it all this morning. Josh Rosen tweeted out support. Josh Rosen didn't quite work out for

Josh, but Kingsbury under 500 at Lubbock. Remember when he first went there, it's like, man, he's so hot. He's going to do awesome with recruits because of moms, which is kind of creepy. But then once it didn't go well at Lubbock and then he was hired, he's like, he's kind of just, he's this hot guy. Now he's just going to coach and he's got Ray-Bans on. His hotness did like a 180 where it became a negative, which is very rare. It doesn't happen a lot in many industries, but it happened with Kingsbury. But people did not like it. Let's run through all the commentary. I'm not going to make it

name specific because it's going to seem like it's nasty. I could have done an hour podcast on all of the people that didn't like the hire. Now, first take said that he's not qualified, that this is troubling. ESPN.com said it makes no sense. The Fox morning show said terrible. Shannon Sharp said terrible hire, terrible head coach. The graphic on the TV show said fad decision. Another Fox show said that he won't have the respect of men because of the handling of the way he handled the USC job. I'm going to tell you right now, 90% of the guys in the Arizona Cardinals don't even remember that he turned down that deal. Um, and even less cared when he was first brought in. Um, another former player said that this was setting back the Arizona Cardinals franchise five years. Um,

that he's, there's another one, uh, in this league, he doesn't know anything. Uh, another player said he's just like Bobby Petrino. Again, the irony of Rosen thinking the only one out there that was like, yeah, great hire. Can't wait to work with you, coach. So this was all out there. Was it 90, 10? It was more than, it's more like 95, five. Now let's go back. I did not sit here and pound the table and tell you that Cliff Kingsbury was the perfect hire. I didn't know, but what I did know is that it seemed to be based solely on the simplistic thinking of he was under 500 in the big 12. There's no way he can be good as a head coach. When, what have we learned in the last few years

of hiring, which of course has seemed excessive is that do I have somebody that can talk to my quarterback? Do I have somebody that understands quarterbacking? Because if that is easily the most important guy running around out there for three plus hours, shouldn't I invest in trying to nurture that guy? Especially we were talking about a number one overall pick in Kyler Murray. All right. Somebody that was, um, you know, look in the mix with Kyler Murray, as far as the recruiting part of it and understanding, uh, Kyler's background and all the high school stuff. So there was a relationship there. You know, one former player was like, yeah, he had Mahomes, but you know, look at Baker Mayfield situation. Somebody, an ex-player actually took Baker Mayfield's side in something, which is pretty rare, but it was okay because you were bashing Cliff Kingsbury. So I guess I just sit

here and go, can it be any more difficult? Isn't really the right word, but can we allow ourselves to look at a coach in a situation where you go, you know, the record is not what you'd want, but is it okay to have an open mind about somebody with a bad college record? Maybe being the right guy. If the emphasis is solely on developing a young quarterback, because Kyla right now has kind of turned into the guy, not Mahomes, I'm not saying that, but who's surpassed Lamar Jackson as the guy that you would want to build around moving forward. I don't think that's a crazy thing to

say right now. And a lot of it is Kyler and his special abilities, but some of that is also Cliff. So I'm not going to sit here and take credit for Cliff as if I had made some amazing call, but it's just so predictable. Oh, bad record of the Big 12. This hire sucks. And let's say a bunch of different things that don't even make any sense. The idea that there's one guy walking around in that locker room being like, you know what? I was going to bust my ass this week, but I don't really like the way he handled that USC thing. He took the OC job and then left for an NFL head coaching gig. Yeah, bullshit. I'm not going to work as hard. I mean, that almost has to be made up.

The other part of this that I thought was funny because there was a positive in some of the LA Times coverage of it was that good for Cliff, but then it was immediately pivoted into a negative, negative piece. I think it was Bill Plachke who was like, how could USC bring in a guy and go,

yeah, we'll just make you OC. USC had a harder time with the concept of making Kingsbury a head coach with a losing record at Texas Tech than the NFL did. Think about that. Now, a small addition here. I'm an Arizona Cardinals fan now. I wanted to let you guys know that. I've been a man without a team for a little while.

I know everybody outside of Boston thinks I'm a Mr. 617, not the case. And people inside Boston think I hate the teams. It's not the case. I still care about the Red Sox. I still, you know, if the Celtics lose, I'm not broken up about it, but I'm not going to root against them. And with the Patriots, it's always been basically I've rooted for Tom's insane resume to continue just because I thought it was awesome to watch.

The rare chance that there would be somebody on the team I knew a little bit, I'd root for them. So that's part of it. But now I've decided, and I'm going to just check myself here on the Freddie Coleman rule, my OG from the late night ESPN radio days, holding it down. night ESPN radio days holding it down. And this is not a knock on Freddie Coleman because he, I think, is a fan of two NFL teams. And I remember one time Stanford Steve and him going at it. And I think there's certain people, if you look at the background and you go, oh, okay, you kind of grew up here. We spent summers there. So it just sort of like over 12 years old and having two favorite teams in the same league seems a little not adultish. But I'm going to allow it for some people, not all of you. Like if you're a Duke, Lakers, Yankees guy, we're never going to hang out.

But I'm announcing now that Arizona is my favorite NFL team because I didn't really have one. I wasn't wasn't rooting for the Patriots a ton this year anyway. So yeah, Arizona, we got a good squad. We like the defense. We do some different things. The Hopkins grade has been great. So Mr. Scottsdale over here. You guys know LeBron James' HBO show, right?

The Shop. We've talked about it a few times here on the show where they'll cast it out and then there's the petrified white guy who's afraid to say anything. And it's unbelievable how often it happens where it's like, all right, let's talk MCs and Paul Rudd. Like inner dialogue is like, don't say Everlast. Don't say Everlast. Don't say Everlast. And he's like trying to think of something cool. He's like, you know, guru probably, probably be my guy. They're like, yes, nailed it. Didn't say ad rock. So the shop award for petrified white guy goes to me and I'm giving

myself this one. Cause I'm gonna tell you right now, us white guys have talked about this. We're afraid to criticize Lamar Jackson in, I would say the last two years we're, we're just like, ah, like, I don't know. Is anybody else noticing some of this stuff? Can I say it? Can I tweet it? Well, no, I better not tweet anything out because then I'm going to get labeled one of those guys. But yeah, there's some stuff happening here with Lamar.

And this isn't just about last night, which is ridiculous that right as the Ravens get the ball back to try to go for a game winning touchdown, the rain just starts pouring like the end of Truman Show, where you go, wait, is somebody behind this? Yes, Belichick jokes. Obvious, I made one as well. But there's something happening with Lamar where he is not as good this year as he was towards the end of last year, okay? And the Ravens are now 0-6 six down 10 points or more with Lamar under center. Yes, they came back against the Colts. They're only down 10, seven, and they really took over that second half and just, just long drives. They had, they had an unbelievably long drive in the first half. So they were, they are mixing things up and doing some things. But even on that last drive last night, I think it weather is a consideration, but he threw a ball that could have been picked off by three different guys. McCourty dropped it. There was

another player behind that. And then the receiver that was the intended receiver was completely covered up. That was a throw where there was maybe three different people that could have picked it off. Lamar is now on throws 15 yards or more down the field. He's 38.8%, which is 26th out of 33 quarterbacks that have qualified. And there's an important part of Sandoz athletic breakdown too, where he looks at Lamar Jackson in the last 24 starts because the Ravens in their last 25 regular season starts, they're 20 and five, which is tied with the best record in the NFL. But I mean, this team went 14 and two last year. So if the first eight games,

we look at it with Lamar, we go, okay, completion percentage, 64%. Yards, 1800 yards, attempt seven and a half touchdown interception radio, 12, five QB rating of 95. The second half of last year, Lamar was off the charts. Completion percentage goes up to 70%. Yards per attempt, up a full yard. Touchdown interception ratio goes from 12-5 first half of the season to 27-1 in the second half, and a QB rating that jumps all the way up to 133.2. He wins the MVP, deserved to win the MVP. As much fun as there is to watch any Sunday, you throw him on, we get it. So off of that, the stakes are raised. Now you're the MVP. Now they're 14 and two. Yes. They couldn't come back in the playoff

game. He's young, not a huge deal. And he is incredibly young. What are we going to see this year? Well, what we're seeing in the third eight games, meaning the first half of this season is a completion percentage that mirrors the first half of last year. Yardage about the same yards per attempt, the lowest of the three areas. The touchdown interception ratio kind of back to where it was at 14.5, and the QB rating drops about 40 points. So this is not to say Lamar has surpassed early questions and all the concerns. There are early expectations of Lamar. He's surpassed all of those things. But what happens is, and this is the part where it becomes really frustrating for fans,

is that now the stakes are raised. We are talking about you as if you are one of the great quarterbacks in the league. And the same reason why when Russell Wilson has a few bad weeks, we're like, what the hell? It's because we expect Russell Wilson to be perfect all the time. And our expectations for Rush should be higher than Lamar Jackson. But because of Lamar's neighborhood that he's living in now, when he has a stretch of the first half of the season where you're going, oh, wait, are there actually still problems? Are some of those early criticisms

popping up again? And he's going to be a starter, I would think, for a long time. I think he's fine on that part of it. This isn't like, oh, hey, Lamar isn't that good. It's just this fear of all the doubt of him and all the stuff that surrounds any kind of doubt with a quarterback that doesn't fit the traditional mold that when you see some of these issues pop up again, there's a lot of guys like me that are like, eh. But again, I just did it. So clearly I'm not that afraid. The final award before we get to our Bill Tom rankings is the Leftovers Award. Do you remember that show on HBO, Kyle? Yeah.

Yeah, I did. Did you finish it? I don't think anybody finished watching that. I kind of think that's amazing you just said that because that's what I was going to say. I think that might have been the Leftovers experience that you just, much like the people that disappeared, the show just threw you. You're like, you know what I haven't watched is the Leftovers. And I loved it. I loved the first season.

I loved the soundtrack. I love the intro music. I like the acting. I like how weird it was. And then I just, I don't know, kind of stopped. I see what you did there. Sort of stopped watching it. And so it was replaced.

And this is pretty much a horrible reach to get into my replacement list for quarterbacks. Check with me here. You can play along at home if you want, Kyle. Pull up standings and go league standings for the NFL. You want to do that with me? Back at HQ? Yeah, man. I'd be honored.

All right. So depending on what's your go-to website? I just, I go to Google, man. Right now. You go to Google, man. Right now. You go to Google standings. Yeah. Okay. Badass.

Is that a problem? Is that not where the. No, no, no. Don't be insecure about it. Tell me your decision and then stick your chest out. All right. Thanks for that. Okay.

So the worst teams in the league, Cincinnati two and six chargers two and seven. Gosh, I can't believe the chargers are two and seven. Although shout out to the Miami dolphins, by the way, the dolphins started six possessions in chargers territory yesterday. I don't know if you knew that, including the kneel down at the 50.

I don't know. You know, I don't know if that was something anybody was excited to talk about. I didn't make it an award, obviously. That would have been a tough one. The starting six possessions in opponents' territory award goes to... So, all right. We got the Jets, the Jags, the Cowboys, Washington, Houston, Chargers, Bengals.

All teams, two or less losses. Here's my quarterback replacement list. Just halfway through the season season so we're just past it Jetson Darnold possibility Jackson also known as Jacksonville Jackson Mississippi without a franchise unfortunately Washington I would think make a change Denver God you luck is just falling apart it's like getting worse and worse even Even in that win against New England, he was terrible. San Francisco, yeah. Chicago, yeah. Indianapolis, I know the deal with Rivers that they'd likely bring him back.

I wouldn't totally rule it out. And then New Orleans if Breeze ends up retiring, which I think he might. So that would be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Eight on my leftovers replacement list. Again, the more I'm saying this award out loud, the more I think I'm just, I wanted to bring up that TV show, which you also stopped watching.

This is incredible. I love that we're so on the same page here with this. Am I leaving anyone out, Kyle? I think there's anyone else in the mix. There will be somebody else. But when you start to look at whether it's Lawrence Fields going in the first round, Trey Lance going in the first round, somebody's going to tell me how Kyle Trask of

Florida is not a first rounder at this point. Zach Wilson, a first rounder is Mac Jones out of Alabama first rounder. That's six guys. Now maybe all six won't go in the first round because there won't be six teams needing quarterbacks because there's six that could push two into the second round that would go in the first round in a weaker quarterback class. But you get my point is that I think we're just past the halfway mark, nine games, ten games for some of the teams. Eagles, yeah, they've got nine games in there. That tie in there with Cincinnati.

Yeah, I think we're at eight already right now, seven or eight. I think you did your homework, dude. That's great. Okay. All right. That's what I wanted, just support boom here we are tom tom and bill it's been all over the place i never expected these rankings to be this dramatic uh when it comes to legacies over two decades but we're off the tampa loss to new orleans where it was terrible one of the worst

losses there was some part some stat i'd read where it was terrible. One of the worst losses. There was some part, some stat I'd read where it's statistically like the most dominant game a team has played against another team in 20 years when you looked at all these different stats that I'm not going to bore you to death with. I'm not even sure if that's 100% right, but we know that the Saints crushed him and it just got uglier and uglier. Although I did see a breakdown of one of his fourth down throws

where he threw it back to the left side and like, oh, that's just Tom not seeing the defense. You're like're like yeah or it's fourth down and they're getting smoked so we decided to just throw it up and hope somebody could make a play because they were going to lose the ball anyway so that was bad analysis more bad analysis on that loss was i'd heard somebody on a morning show saying i don't know how the tampa break how did the tampa bay bucks bring this team back you're like wait a minute what like yeah you can't bring the same team back next year but can we just chill the fuck out for a minute or two there's seven and three with their win against carolina and they were dominant i thought against carolina so now you're like okay what do i do with tom because then bill had this answer when asked about the draft class I know you reference the last 20 years, but over the last four, really since about 2014,

do you think the drafting and the production you're getting from drafted players has been where you hoped? and that's my last one i promise yeah yeah well you know honestly my focus has been on the ravens um right now graphing scorecard which i understand you want to write about that, which is great. So then you're like, wait, Tom's in the dumpsters. Bill can't handle the criticism.

But then Tom runs over the Panthers and then you think Bill against the Ravens. I actually like the Pats in that spot. They're just running the hell out of the football now and they finally figured out their identity and they're not going to ask Cam to do a tone and that's who they're going running the hell out of the football now, and they finally figured out their identity, and they just are not going to ask Cam to do a tone,

and that's who they're going to be the rest of the way. I don't know. I just think in like 50 years from now when people are debating Tom and Bill and how often they'll point to week 10, this could be the game changer. I mean, this really could be the kind of thing that alters the next decades, the course of conversation over the following decades

about Tom and Bill. I'm going to do it. I'm going to put Bill one and Tom two. I didn't think it was going to happen. I didn't think it was going to happen this year. I thought it was Tom's the rest of the way out. And Tom responded on the field, but Bill responded where it matters.

And that's culture and fight and elements. I don't know. Yeah, so I got Bill one, Tom two. I'm surprised. He's my partner for six years. He's been with the Masters coverage at ESPN and the Golf Channel for even longer. Van Pelt joins us from his estate.

How many Masters is this for you? 20. More than 20. First one was 97. I didn't go 98. I think I was there 99. So it's probably 20-something. What was it like having no one there?

Really, really strange. I mean, there's no way to say it other than how odd it was. Just because you're so used to seeing it framed by thousands of people. And I said it on the broadcast, and, you know, I'm always cautious to come across as being too flowery golf guy. But I mean it. Like, the people at Augusta National during the Masters, like, they're the soul of the tournament. Like, they're the soundtrack of the tournament. They're the ones that were chanting Tiger, Tiger, Tiger in 19. And so without it, just the depth perception of everything was weird.

What it looked like, what it sounded like, everything that frames what the tournament normally feels like was absent. But the course is still the course. And, you know, so that's still great. But it's like a great venue that just doesn't have the thing that elevates it even further. So Dustin wins in historic fashion and it wasn't all that dramatic towards the end, but you've known him a long time. And I think you've shared the story before, but I don't know if you can go more into depth on this because, you know, because we're always desperate to try

to figure out some angle, especially when he's just tearing up the course. It's like, oh, remember the U.S. Open? What was it like? He doubled early with the lead on a Sunday, and then he threw up, right? Well, I mean, you mean his major championship history? Yeah, like the first one where he thought he was going to win the U.S. Open, and then he didn't. Remember we talked about this, where he went behind like a Porta John. Yeah. Yeah. So go ahead.

Well, I mean, I think that was early in his ascent. And the thing about like the thing about the way he carries himself is that you can, you can trick yourself into thinking that he doesn't care or that he's impervious. Neither of those are true. And I think what happened in, what, 10 at Pebble is you can glide through Thursday, Friday, Saturday. And then it's Sunday, and you know you're 18 away from changing who you are forever in golf circles. And then you make a couple big numbers and you're like, hold on, I got to puke.

I mean, you know, it's a lot. You know, it hits you quick. You know, life comes at you fast, as they say. And I think, I mean, like that was the one where he just wasn't ready. And that's fine. I mean, I don't think anyone knows what it is until they're in it. wasn't ready and that's fine i mean i don't think anyone knows what it is until they're in it but he's also had some of the shittiest luck i've ever seen in majors like i'll say it until i'm dead whistling straights he hits it in a bunker and he didn't know it was a bunker because there was

freaking garbage and people that was that was ridiculous like there's the the code of golf that people outside of golf had a hard time with. And part of me is always like, look, if golf wants to be that, then let golf be golf. But that one was so ridiculous. It looked like people just had been standing there and then he's because they were standing there. Like with the things you'll notice at Augusta, there are very few people in any of the,

in any of the traps. You don't come across zero. And I was, you don't find rubbish and Snickers wrappers and footprints because they just aren't there. So that was unlucky. Chambers Bay, which was the U.S.

Open out in Washington, is unluckier than anything maybe that has ever happened to him because he hit this incredible shot on the 18th hole, which is par 5, and it stayed on top of this hill. Not one ball that I saw stayed up where his ball did. It should have rolled back for like a tap and Eagle, but where it stayed, he, he makes a mess of it and ends up three putting and doesn't make it

into a playoff. That's incredibly unlucky. And all of that kind of creates this, this, um, like narratives, this tricky word now that i hate it i hate it narrative is the word that is used preceding a terrible point being made that that and also it's used to be like dismissive to the truth kind of yeah there's a narrative well you know here's a perfect example remember when iowa was really good record wise and hadn't played anybody. Now they ended up playing really well against Michigan state and the big 10, but they hadn't played anyone. And then big 10 people were like, well, there's this narrative that Iowa hasn't played anyone.

You're like, no replaced narrative with it is true. And then didn't they play Stanford get work? They did in that game, but they played well against a good Michigan state team where I, I, after that, I was like, okay, but my point leading up to that was, and everybody knows how I love Iowa and Waterloo, but I just, I'm like, it's, it's okay to admit. And, and I just, this narrative rant, I could do maybe a 30 minute bit on the word narrative and how often it's used. Like I heard somebody say,

well, I think the narrative that Lamar Jackson can't guide you to a comeback is dead. What, when they were down 10-7 of the Colts? Yeah. Like, that's it? All right. Right. So narrative is this catch-all word that tends to mean we're reciting facts

that maybe you don't like. I don't know. Whatever it is that came to define Dustin Johnson, the majors. Look, it was rooted in truth. He had a number of opportunities. And they for one, whether it's poor luck, I think a lousy ruling or or just he didn't deliver. He hadn't done it. And so it was not unreasonable. And I was one of them, Ryan, that said, how can you be as good as he is and have a gear that maybe only you have where you play to your ceiling and you're spookier than anybody else out there? Like no one can sniff your best,

but you don't, you've only got one major one. Well, now he's got two and two is a whole lot more than one in major championship circles, especially when you shoot 20 under at Augusta and especially coming off what he did in the fall win in the playoff where he has he's in the sweet spot of his career and it's reasonable after what he did at the end of the year and what he did this week at Augusta to say you know he'll add uh considerably to this pile but I mean whatever dude he's on a jet to St saint bart's he's good man he is real good life's good was did anyone try to throw paulina out they're like who's this girl just walk around the woods by herself no i think they know paul i think pauline is fairly well known we're like oh i know her she's and you know what like there's some really cool stories about he had a tough he had a tough family dynamic he had some difficult uh just trying to live up to

expectations of family and now like this gretzky family has totally embraced him and he knows what it is to be loved and i mean this is really you know deep stuff but it's real and he i think it's part of the reason why he doesn't sweat a lot of stuff uh he knows he's loved he knows he's really good and you know this week he everybody else knows that he's kind of in that you're playing for second if I play like this bit. Okay, question for you. Is Bryson Brooks except that nobody likes him? I think people like Brooks.

I think the Bryson thing is tough. That's what I mean. Yeah. Go ahead. I think that they're – and DJ's in the same boat, too. It's rare to truly not give a shit what anyone thinks about you. It really is.

I mean, we've talked about this. I wrestle with... It's hard to just totally dismiss people being like, you suck. Wait, what? But DJ, Koepka, don't care. Bryson, I think, is different.

I think he would prefer that people didn't dislike him, but the packaging of his messages makes it hard. When you sit there at Augusta National and say, well, you know, 67's par for me, I'll tell you right now, the membership at Augusta's like, is that right? And then when he goes out and doesn't play particularly well, I don't think you have people weeping for him. And yet he's incredibly compelling as a storyline. He's going to hit it eight miles and this and that.

And before the Masters, anyone that asked me, he is like, well, is Bryson going to win? I was like, no, not if he didn't putt better. He didn't putt well there. You got to putt at that place. You got to. And that's not the reason why he didn't win. he's a guy that he just needs, he needs desperately someone explaining how to, how to message package his messaging in a way that isn't going to make people want to openly root against him.

He's good for golf. He's absolutely good. He is. He is the thing that you need. You need it in the NBA. You need it in the NFL. You need these storylines. Like we are,

we're not that complicated. There's a reason why cop shows keep getting picked up all right because there's bad guys and he's really good for a sport that i think at times lacks that where i remember first learning about the sport and asking buddies i was like well who do you who do you hate what are you talking about i was like well who who are the who are the pistons you know who who are they and he was like what are you who are the Pistons? You know, who are they? And he was like, what are you talking about? Like, I root for everyone. I'm like, you root for every guy?

Like, yeah, I root for good golf. And I go, that's a great point. Like, there's no one sitting on their couch back in like the 80s or 90s going, I hate that Ben Crenshaw. God, I hope he hits it in the water. Man, look at Davis Love. You suck. No one's thinking that.

But guys like Bryson. Ooh, Freddie Swing. So good. Everyone loves Freddie. Everybody one's thinking that. But guys like Bryson. Ooh, Freddie Swing. So good. Everyone loves Freddie. Everybody loves him. Right. Like, Freddie was one of our P1s back in the day of the radio show. So shout out to Freddie Couples.

And I saw him down there. He's still – the beauty of Freddie is he will never change. He sees me and immediately it's like 20 questions about sports stuff and we're walking and he's changing the channel in his head. I trying to keep up and answer the questions he's the best uh but wait was he the golfer was he the guy that always texted you about the show who was the guy that definitely didn't like me was it that's a long list i think there was one guy that was was constantly like what's his story? Was it Stuart Appleby?

No. No, I don't think I've ever gotten a text from Stuart Appleby. No, it certainly wasn't Fred Covell. It wasn't Freddie. I was very happy with Freddie's feedback. It was all about Steve B. and Priscilla. Loved it. But you're right.

The sport, I shouldn't say desperately needs. It benefits from. Absolutely. It benefits from a DeChambeau who captures the attention, like Daly did back in the day, of a guy that's just going to hit it eight miles. But he's also got that sort of advanced trigonometry mind of figuring out all the numbers and all the rest of it. And I mean, what he did at Wingfoot can't be dismissed. It wasn't an accident. He's going to do that more.

He just – to show up at Augusta and have everybody just presume that he'll continue to do that, it's not the worst thing probably for him or for casual fans to be reminded, well, no, no, that's just not how it works. It doesn't go like that. It might for Dustin. And he's the guy like, Hey, like you guys be down there and ooh and ah over him. Like if I want to swing at it, I can hit a three 52, you know, I can hit it really far if I want to.

I can't believe we took this long to get to tiger. We could talk about the 10 on one hole. It just didn't happen for him this week. Um, update me on all things tiger and your personal relationship as well. week. Update me on all things Tiger and your personal relationship as well. Well, I think the thing I noticed, Ryan, is that it's house money, man. It's house money. He's totally a piece, right? A thousand percent. That's the word. And it might sound odd to say that about the guy who's been the guy he's been the yardstick and everybody's measured off him but what he got last year and going back to that place and when he

talked about charlie and how much that hug meant like he's not a guy that lets emotion bubble to the surface but he he got teary in the press conference talking about it and the masters put out something where he he was talking about how much it meant to him and he, and he couldn't go on. And he said, he said, I'm sorry. And I swear to God, like watching that on my phone, I I've known him a long time, as you know, and I thought that's the most vulnerable and human I've ever seen him talking about his boy and how much it meant to him. And that's why I have said consistently since last year that, of course, he wants to beat Jack. Of course, he's wanted to beat Jack forever, wants to get to 19. If 15 is the end and that's it,

that's how it ends for him, hugging his boy and his girl in the same spot where he hugged his dad, I promise you, he's good. Cosmically with the world, he is all bets are squared. I don't know you. You don't know me. I am good. And you saw that this week, man. He didn't stress. He smiled at his mistakes. He made a 10, man, a 10. And then you know what he did? He birdied five of the next six holes. To me, he wasn that was, I mean, he wasn't lost because it was Tiger. But, like, he made the biggest number he's ever made in his life. And instead of getting all pissed off, he's just like, all right, well, let's see what we can do here. But he's, I think he's good with the world.

Like, he'll keep trying to win majors, for sure. And at some point, he'll get, he'll forget how much the Charlie thing meant, and he'll want to win again. Like, to the point that that fire really comes back and he won't be as peaceful but this week all i saw was a guy who was totally right with the whole the whole bit when you and i you know first started doing the show that's 09 so at that point we were like okay tigers there was no conversation around him not catching jack it was how many more does he have than Jack, right? Because of the pace and everything. And at that point, look, there had been stuff where it was all over the place,

but you still kind of thought, maybe I should have had to back it up. I probably should have backed it up a few years prior to maybe when you and I first started. Because what was 08, the Rocco Mediate US Open? Exactly. But you did that on the whole broken leg and the whatever and i mean like the body breakdown was real but still your point holds water like even even banged up tiger it wasn't a matter of like it was a matter of how many more not exactly okay all right so we're on the same page there as far as the timeline then the timeline starts to fall

apart and then it becomes like he's never going to golf again which you know it was it was a lot of weird stuff where it was like oh he's good he's good he's hurt he's good he's good he's never going to golf again, which, you know, it was, it was a lot of weird stuff where it was like, oh, he's good. He's good. He's hurt. Oh, he's good. He's good. He's hurt. And I'm just happy to see the guy healthy and out there. And I know you've always been my guide with him and the way you talk about him, like, I'll just go, Hey, I defer to Scott on this kind of stuff. And what you just shared with us is perfect, but could there be an argument to be made? Cause I was thinking about this the other day, like if he doesn't catch Jack, he doesn't catch Jack. We really just count. That's what we do.

And the guy that has less than the other guy can't be better than him. But I'm sure I've read this. The depth of this field now compared to what it was, would that be the argument that's pro Tiger? Where the people that like to shit on the Celtics NBA championships in the 60s and try to say those don't count, is that enough of a pro-Tiger thing, depending on if he doesn't ever catch Jack? Probably, because all I read is that Jordan played against plumbers. Somehow that's the narrative, another narrative.

But somehow that's the talking point about Jordan. They'll show a picture against Lambeer and go, this is who he played against. It's like, okay, that's the talking point about Jordan is like, you know, you show up, you'll show a picture against like Lambert and go, this is who he played against. Like, okay, that's a fun trick. I mean, you want to go back and rewrite what the bad boys and the Celtics and whatever of that era, we're not great generationally giving any credit to the past.

So I'm always hesitant to say like the Jack didn't play against a bunch of bad-asses. Cause he certainly did. I mean, he's playing against Palmer and player and he's playing against against Watson and Weiskopf and Floyd and Trevino. I mean, I could keep going, but there were a bunch of guys. But it certainly feels, Ryan— He missed Sam Snead, right?

Snead was old when Jack was doing his thing. But the era of his real—and Jack's doing his thing. But like the era of his real, and Jack's prime was ridiculous. I mean, it spanned a 20 some odd year chunk where he was just insane. But like the depth now worldwide of a player and the number of people who turn up that I think you can reasonably say can win any one major,

it certainly feels deeper. Now, I can't tell you, I didn't, young Scott wasn't super up to date on like who the best 50 players were. You know, I don't know if I can compare it apples to apples, but if Tiger doesn't get there, I mean, you could point to that he won more tournaments because he will have won more tournaments than Jack did. But I mean, Tiger could point to that he won more tournaments because he will have won more tournaments than Jack did. But, I mean, Tiger would also tell you he'd trade in 20 of the regular ones for three more majors, you know, just because when we count, the majors have more weight. But I just think it's generational. The people that saw Tiger be Tiger will never believe anybody was better than him.

And the people, I didn't really see Jack, you know. I mean, I saw the tail end of it. Um, but if you go back and look at like his stats, there was like a 10 year stretch where he basically was like first, second or third, 80, 80% of the majors. He was preposterous what he did. Like he never played bad in majors. Never. Um, but like I said, anytime it comes to errors in really any sport, I think we just don't do a great job because we just we're always going to lean in the direction of the era we remember best. I think I do it with Jordan for sure. Yeah. If you were to do an NBA equivalent of Jack in Masters, excuse me, in Majors.

Whoa, we got it. Here we go. Hold on. Charlie's here. Hey, Charlie. Mr. Ryan. Hi. What do you got?

Some fruit punch or is that a little popsicle you're wearing? Is that a rouge? It was a popsicle. It was a popsicle. What kind of popsicle do we get, buddy? Charlie, where's your bag? Oh, do you like the new house? What's your favorite part of the new house?

Red. Red? That doesn't mean anything what's what's red you want to go to the bathroom yeah well we should probably do that okay can we pause the tape for a second yeah yeah absolutely give me a. Me and Charlie are going to go hit the head. Hold on. Stop now. Here we go. Let's go. Sorry about that. That's Charlie. Charlie's still in the head. He's very upset because I've abandoned him. So going back to Tiger and the story he told about Charlie last week, he told the story about- That's not Tiger's kid. That's your Charlie, right? Just for the audience. Let me make this clear. Tiger's son, Charlie, did not just come sit on my lap and ask to go to the bathroom.

Tiger's son is also Charlie, different Charlie. And he told the story in the press conference about hugging his child and got emotional. And I sent Tiger a note to say, it's great when's, it's great when you share that, you know, people want to, people love to see that side of you. And I said, flying down to Augusta, I got a FaceTime from my Charlie to tell me that he pooped on the potty. And we announced that to the whole plane, which was met with warm applause by the folks in the airplane. They enjoyed hearing that Charlie had gone poop on the potty. So,

sounds like Charlie's having a hard time with the poop right now i think he wants me to come back but i i told him dad he's got some stuff to tend to so here we are we'll just do a few more minutes then because i'm always fascinated with the augusta part of it i was lucky enough to go it's one of the few times i've been somewhere where you know like whenever you had those buddies back in those show days right like man i hope fish plays for five hours i'm like i, I don't like, you know, two and a half maybe. And then let's go do something else like five hours. No, I don't want to, I don't want to be here for five hours. You know, I don't know what I want to watch for five hours, but Augusta was the first thing in a long time where I'd given my friend Sully the Saturday passes. Cause I had to make it back to Connecticut,

and you told me don't try to get out of Atlanta on Sunday after the Masters. So I gave Sully the passes, and then that Saturday morning, I was kind of jealous that I'd given him the passes. I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to leave. So your attachment to it is real. What's it like being, I don't know if elder statesman is the right term because, let's face it, the Masters crew isn't the youngest group of all time. But what's it like for somebody like you to have this connection to a place very few have a connection to or are allowed to?

It's not the Vans Warped Tour there, for sure. It's not that. It's not Coachella-ish. No, it's a place that people go for. If you're lucky that you go for a long time, like, you know, Jim started going there in the mid eighties. I went, uh, I went there in 97 was the first year, which, you know, when you, when you start playing that back in your mind is when that's,

that's when you, it's hard to make sense of it, right? Like that it's been that long that I've been doing anything, but it is, I've been going there since, since 97. So it's, you know how, and I'm glad you saw it because I really feel, and it helps to the person that's your, that likes your podcast, that knows your sensibilities that maybe doesn't get me or think that maybe they think I'm full of shit. But when they hear you say it, they're like, oh, okay. Like it's that good, that place.

It's, it's better than you think it's going to be to a factor of 10. And you're just like, nothing I say to you is going to make you get it unless you come here and see it. It's just nothing is because it's a kind of, it's like if you go to some club and there's like a VIP and you're like, well, how good could it be? And you get to be like, Oh, Oh, it's like really Uber VIP. Like I didn't even know this world existed. And now here I am. Jamie Kennedy's here. There you go. All of them. Like it's, we're not in the one that where we can see the special VIP we're in the spot and and so that place um it's just it defies your your belief of what something can be in a lot of ways and so I've been lucky enough to go there for long enough where I know people and I mean I'm friendly with

like whether it's the people the security that we see walking in, whether it's, you know, the guys that work over at the clubhouse who I've known for 20 years, man. Like, it's cool when you walk in and like, they got you. Like, what do you need? They treat you like you're a member. And I'm not. I'm there to work like they are. Okay, that's my question. What's the membership status?

How does that work? I have no idea. Is there an online form? I know that it doesn't matter for me because it's not like, you know what I mean? Okay. But this is, this is what is important for you to describe, explain to us is that I know that answer, but so many people are like, well then if Scott can't one day, could Scott be a member at Augusta? Yeah. Right. You're like, it's stupid to even ask why. No, of course not. I mean, I just just it and it's not and here's the thing

like someplace you know that you're not gonna ever be a member might feel like they would not make you feel welcome that's not it like you feel incredibly welcome and people ask me like oh that's what they do there that's what they do there when you think like elit nerd, you know, getting the whole guy and all the stuff that some of the audience listening right now can't stand. Some people love that. Okay. When you're there, Augusta kind of rewards you for getting there. Like that's part of the embrace where here are these massive expectations. And yet it does exceed all those. Like it's the masters. i had high expectations and i was in love with it and it's they were shattered and there isn't the uppity south like oh you know you you should be lucky you're here it's once you're through the gates okay man good for you you made it let's have an awesome five days because the wednesday part is awesome too so for sure that's the point that i

think is it's something people can't understand when they've never gone. Right. The way I've always just explained it is I've never felt more welcome in a place, but at the same time, it's like if you get invited to the nicest, if you have that friend who has the really nice house with this, I mean, I lived in a, like, well, I mean, like I lived in a townhouse and we had night, we had stuff,

but it wasn't like you didn't have to worry about where you put your feet. Like when you walked in, you know what I mean? You didn't have to worry. Do I take my shoes off? Like if I sit on something, like you, you just, you feel comfortable. Cause it's like, it's not like you're worried about you're going to break something. I don't have a name. My rooms aren't named. There you go. All right. Well, meet me in the, meet me in the cinnamon bark room.

Yeah, we'll be in the welcoming den. No, we just have a TV in here. You can sit wherever you want. I've never feel more welcome, but I never feel more like I, I want to make sure that I, that I act right. And in the same way, if you go to a really nice home, you're happy you've been invited, but you don't want to do something to not be invited because you acted the fool. And I think it governs people in that way. You don't hear people yelling mashed potatoes and getting a home.

That guy's not really there. It's not a guy that's had 17 PBRs and a lip or in who just can't wait to maybe get nude and run around like the 17th fairway like it's just not like that people and if that and then if that guy is there some about it his internal his internal governor kicks and he's like maybe i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna yell it i'm gonna sit right here and just just keep myself together um there's definitely 17 ccs in a dip-in guy there, though. But you're right. For some reason, he finds a way to keep it down the middle.

Yeah, he just doesn't. Even if he's got the croquis going, he's not going to wear the flip-flops. He's going to put on some Allbirds and just try to keep it together. And in that way, maybe it sounds like I'm saying two things at once. On the one hand it's this but on the other hand it's that the membership there um they know that i appreciate their tournament they know i enjoy being there um and they've been incredibly kind and welcoming um to to us with espn to me in particular and so i'm always always grateful um for that i just i but like when you talk about membership, I mean, like, I mean, I think Jim Nance could be a member someday. I mean, I think his his association with that place is such that I would think it would it would make sense for him at some point.

But like Arnold Palmer waited like until he was an older guy. You know, it's not like they just call you up one day. Hey, man, come on down. We want to we want to have a dinner and then you're going to get a Coke. Or maybe they do, honest to God. I don't know and I'm never going to find out. I'm afraid if you were at a 7% to 8% chance of being a member, just talking about it puts you at like a 6%. So I'm worried. Yeah, I don't think it's something you'd speak. You don't speak about it necessarily. necessarily but in my case again like since you can't have less of a chance than zero so i just think this is my this is my perception of how it works i don't know just in case i won't title it van pelt talks about his chances of being a member at acosta that would those bullet points you put in the tweet yeah don't put don't put that in there because i you know telling the off chance that maybe they're just looking for somebody like me

to be part of the group. All right. That's Scott Van Pelt. You can watch him on SportsCenter. He does hits on Get Up and a bunch of other stuff. They haven't asked me on there yet, but that's fine. They're early. I'm late.

He's really becoming one to watch in the industry. Trying my best, pal. Good to be with you. See you, brother. Thanks, man. I'll talk soon. Hey, Ryan, are you going to do an NBA today? Yes, we will in just a moment.

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By the way, I would pay all sorts of money to listen to Kevin Durant and Harden talk about the trade and where Harden goes, well, what do I do? And Durant goes, you just, you just ask for a trade and be like, that's it. Like, yeah. Then everybody on social media just starts saying that they have to trade you. Really? Yeah. Do they know, but they have to like, Oh, but who's, who, who in the Nets is good enough for me? I don't know. We'll just tell people like we have guys that are close to being all-stars, like Dinwiddie and Karis LeVert,

who, by the way, are nice players. But if Dinwiddie's your starting point guard, you're probably not a great team. And I've always liked Karis LeVert going back to the draft. But I think there's a weird run where the Nets kind of found three straight high-usage points, guys that have to figure out a way to play with others. And that was D'Angelo, Dinwiddie, and Karras, I think has a little bit of them too.

I'm not saying they're all the same, but there are some similarities. So I would love to hear about those conversations because Harden is upset about what? He's upset about the culture and the direction of the franchise. And I think more than anything, these guys are just mad. I think he and Westbrook were mad that Ty Lue didn't get the job. And it was Steven Silas. Steven Silas has been around forever. Anybody that's gone to NBA games at any point in the last 20 years, you've seen Steven Silas. He's been on good benches as well.

He did advanced stuff. I've talked to them. Super, super nice guy. And one of the things I think is the most, it's not even disturbing because that's too dramatic I think disappointing is the right word where I've read reports as Westbrook wanted out and then Harden wanted out but yet both have been very supportive of Steven Silas really that's being supportive deciding that you want to bounce or that you can't even return his phone calls apparently Silas been calling guys I don't even know if that's true or not I don't know what the

call logs are for these players but I wouldn't exactly put this down as the most respectful way to handle the new head coach. And if this is all because of Lou, you know, I don't know that that's part of it. I think guys find ways you've probably done it in your life at some point. Hey, I can use this as an excuse to change my situation and I'm gonna go ahead and do it. I'm going to go ahead and use this excuse as Merrickrick Mangini, I think, told us because Bill Belichick told him, and then maybe Parcells told him, is if you give people excuses, they will go ahead and use them. So Harden wants out.

Here's what I think should happen, and I think kind of will happen here. And this isn't as much as sourced as the reality of the situation, that Harden has two years and a massive player option remaining on his contract. And it's not like it's just one year going into this year and you're afraid he's going to bounce a free agency anyway. And he's going to go ahead and threaten you the whole time. Kind of like the Paul George deal where he just was like, Hey, everybody, I'm going to the Lakers. I don't want to be here anymore. And the Pacers were stuck trying to trade him to everybody. And every team basically had said no until the Oladipo deal went down. But even when the Oladipo deal went down,

people thought it was an atrocious deal actually for the Pacers when it turned into that actually wasn't that bad because Oladipo before this injury played pretty well, really well, I thought going back to two years ago. All right. So now this player power movement, we've all just kind of accepted it. We've accepted, as I've said numerous times, the job for general manager is that you just wait around hoping you have enough assets for the next guy that's super mad. And even when it feels like it's quiet, we are only months away for the next really mad NBA star that decides that he wants to go somewhere else. Okay. So I don't know why we've accepted it this much to this extreme. Like, why have we as basketball fans, why have front office people as people that are actually in

charge of decisions? Why has everyone just accepted that? Oh, looks like I got to trade you. Think about this. If you're Raphael Stone, the new general manager for the Rockets, a little aside on him, played college basketball, not at some major level, but he played college basketball. Okay. And that's actually means something, even though he was Stanford law and was basically overseeing a lot of the legal stuff that Houston was doing. So there's a lot of pushback that we love to typecast people.

We want everyone to be simple and fall in little boxes. So it's easier for us to kind of figure out who they are as people, but a guy that goes from his background and I'm making basketball decisions. There's obvious pushback, not just from the outside, but inside the league, like, who is this guy? But yet Daryl Morey was the exact same thing. A guy that evaluated business deals, potential deals said yes or no thumbs up, thumbs down, and then slowly worked his way over to general manager and evaluating players, which shocked the hell out of a lot of people. But you know what? Daryl Morey all said, did a really good job of the Rockets. So, and he made a ton of money going to the Sixers for an even higher position. So it's worked out for Daryl Morey. So I'm not going to sit here and say Stone, I'm going to dismiss him because he

doesn't have some normal background. I think we've learned that you can't do that anymore. However, I have heard he's a little difficult to deal with, but if you're him right now inheriting a situation where you thought you maybe had a team that was a four or five seed, if something breaks right, injury somewhere else, add another piece, maybe you're at the very, very outskirts of contending for a title. I don't believe that, but certainly you could talk yourself into it. You are not going to be in a hurry to trade Harden and then only trade him to one team. And that's where I think there needs to be a bit of a shift back away from player empowerment to reality, reality of the job. Because if I'm the GM of the Rockets, I go,

okay, yeah, what's up, Harden? Okay, you're mad now too. Yeah, Westbrook wants to be traded. I couldn't trade Westbrook for a second rounder right now because the contract is so bad. You were a better bet. You were, in terms, a better contract. But you're really good. And you have two years left on a deal with a massive player option. So who knows, with all this new cap math and how everything's going to look post-pandemic, that maybe that'll look like a really good number that you won't want to opt out of. So I may have you for three more years.

And I'm supposed to do what? Trade you? Trade you? When I just traded the previous guy, by the way, so you'd have to say the Rockets franchise, just pulled off a trade with Westbrook and Chris Paul where you got Westbrook, but you sent out Chris Paul a 2021 first round swap, which means if the Thunder had a worse pick than Houston, then the Thunder get Houston's pick. A 2024 first, a 2025 first swap again, and then a 26 first. So now I'm looking at, and this is the part that sucks about trading these picks, because Daryl Morey's like, all right, maybe I'll be out of here. Daryl doesn't have to deal with any of this stuff.

We're now Stone has to deal with the fact that he could be out four first round picks from 2021 to 2026. So I'm supposed to trade Westbrook and I'm supposed to trade Harden and I'm supposed to enter some kind of rebuild where then I don't even have any of my fucking picks. Like, are you kidding me? I can't do that. And you can say, well, you know, unhappy star. Why are you unhappy, James? You're going to take a million shots. You know, you're going to put up huge numbers. You're going to come in third in the MVP again because people are overvoting for you because of the playoffs. And, you know, you're going to be good.

You're going to be good here. Westbrook might be like, yeah, I actually want Harden to be traded. So now that I can just take a million shots and be here by myself the way I had at the Thunder when we won 40-something games. And it was awesome because that's what my goal is. Harden calling up and again it's apparently he's ignoring everybody's calls but if you ended up having that conversation maybe it would just be an agent conversation you again is stoned the GM you'd be asking let me just get this straight I am supposed to trade Harden at 31 years old with two to maybe three years left on the deal to only one team by the way because that's the only one you want to go to,

for Spencer Dinwoody, Karis Levert, Jared Allen. Like, I read a projection of what all this meant, and it was like, yeah, you know what? You get, like, three starters and maybe a pick. Well, if I'm getting any of Brooklyn's picks, then that means I'm getting bad picks, because guess what? Even in the most toxic Kyrie Irving situation, they're probably still going to win enough games where those aren't exactly rebuilding lottery picks. So it doesn't make any sense. And this is where I'd respect the

GM for just going, yeah, whatever, dude, we're not trading. And that's apparently what Stone is saying. It's what he's saying now. Yes, situations could become untenable. It can be the type of deal where you just go, hey, you're not in the building every single day and it's up to the player and then the agent to go nuclear option, which was like Clutch and Anthony Davis at New Orleans. But really, man, this is one of those moves where you go, I know what social media said for a few days, but social media is not running this team. And I would have a ton of respect for a GM that would just go, yeah, I'm not trading you. You get really mad about it. But I don't just have to do that.

And by the way, thanks for opening up the market to one other team. So we'll see how this plays out. Trent Dilver joins us in a moment, but add a little excitement to your sports watching experience by betting on all the action

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Keep the cash. If you lose, you get your entire bet up to $1,000 back in inside credit. So let's take a look at some of the lines. Bad college picks. Didn't do a ton of work on it. Close in a couple. My bad. And then another game got canceled so uh you know i apologize for that the nfl picks have been good

really good all right let's look at an nfl line now kansas city a touchdown favorite less than a touchdown how about that if kansas city's less than a touchdown favorite in their rematch against the Las Vegas Raiders, I would say revenge game, right? Revenge game, Kyle? Yeah. Let's do Kansas City if it goes under seven in that. And I think New England's figured some things out. I love it. Bill is back.

Yeah, Bill is back. So go ahead. Maybe you'll get a pick-em in that one. Depends. I love it. Bill is back. Yeah, Bill is back. So go ahead. Maybe you'll get a pick-em in that one. Depends. Maybe an announcement of some stuff. By the way, New England is just all run first on that Cook Index that we like with Sando running the football where the score is not impacting your play calling

first 28 minutes of the game. New England is just running the football now. They're just running it all the time. All right, so if you've never tried FanDuel Sportsbook, what are you waiting for? Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app to get started. Be sure to sign up with promo code Ryan, R-Y-E-N, so they know I sent you. That's FanDuel Sportsbook, promo code Ryan, R-Y-E-N. Must be 21 or older and present in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois,

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Hey, we do it once a month, kind of our Trent Dilfer quarterly here on the podcast. So the Kyler Murray game was the game I wanted to watch as much as anything on Sunday. Maybe I shouldn't call it the Kyler game because Josh Allen was that good too. I know we've had to kind of change what we think of different quarterbacks

and everything, but what are you seeing right now with somebody who I think has definitely jumped a class of quarterbacks? You can talk about some of the younger guys you'd want to build around. I think both guys. I'm with you. Every week I look up when the Cardinals are playing. They're usually in that late slot here in the central. I'm here on the central time zone, so that 3 o'clock kickoff,

it's right before a staff meeting and sitting here with Joey and can't get our eyes off the Cardinals. I think for a few reasons. One, Kyler's magic. You know, we felt that way since the kid was in high school. Never lost a high school football game in 6-8 football in Texas, had incredible comebacks, and really did everything you could ever do in high school, then checks every box in college. And now in the NFL, he just has that

unique trait that very few have, that twitch, that juice that just allows him to do things that most people can't even think about doing. And I think it's different than just the great athlete playing quarterback. I mean, he's always been an incredibly gifted passer. It's not just the spin on the ball, the arm strength. I mean, he has anticipation. He can layer the ball. He sees things that most don't see. He's just a special player.

And then you put talented people around him. I love that with the coaches. I love how the coach has changed, too. Kingsbury's more committed to running the football. Is that just from last year to this year? I think it's last year to this year, and I think he's recognized. Even in the NFL, look at Lamar Jackson. When the quarterback's a threat to run, it creates easier running lanes for your traditional NFL run game. So a lot of

their runs are two tight end runs that you'll see from other teams, but there's that little read element on the backside where, and Aaron Rodgers, it might be an RPO where, Hey, if that extra defender comes in, I'm going to throw a little slant outside with Kyler. It's okay. If that extra defender comes inside, well, I'm going to keep it. People call it the zone read. It's way more complicated than just being the zone read, but he becomes the extra gap threat. So now teams are hanging back on that, and there's an open gap to the tailback. There's easier blocking angles and lanes for your traditional NFL run game. So I'm fascinated by it. I love how they play tempo, get a lot of plays in,

but then are smart enough at times to throttle back and slow it down, protect their defense. They seem like an average roster to me with outstanding superstars in a few positions. They have maybe five superstars that are as good at what they do as anybody, and it makes up for any lack of roster depth they might have. I want to ask about game-specific stuff here, because I think there's a lot of time with clock where everybody's at home going,

hey, you know what? Let them. They need to run clock. All right. They need to do these things, but then it kind of takes you out of who you are at times. And, and tempo shouldn't be used the same way the entire game. But if you're a team that plays a certain style and it's been working, because I thought Arizona, you know, the pick was unfortunate with Fitzgerald where it's this unbelievable rare occurrence there. So it wasn't like Kyler made the mistake that maybe Josh Allen did on his pick, But then Allen, you're walking away from that game when he throws to Diggs going,

all right, Allen's the guy. But specific to the fourth quarter, I'm looking here at, and you don't have to pull up any of this stuff because I'll have it for you here, but there's 640 left. It's back at the two-yard line. So Arizona's at their own two.

And at that point, they're up 26-23. So you're thinking Arizona wants to run a little clock. And as they're running clock, it's taking them out of trying to get a first down and get real good field position or at least drag it out a little bit more because they're worried about two minutes off the clock on that three and out. They then lose only 43 seconds, I think, of game clock on their next three and out, but they were actually trying to move. They weren't worried about tempo anymore. They were trying to actually move the ball down the field. So then the announcer's like, oh man, you didn't lose any time off the clock. It's like, hey, the previous possession running clock was the priority and that didn't work out either. So when you were playing or even on the sidelines with the coaching, trying to figure that stuff out, I think everyone from the outside makes it too simplistic. Hey, you're up, run the clock when it's like, man, it's six minutes at four minutes. And then people play that really stupid game at

the end where they're like, oh man, they didn't run enough clock. Look how much time was left for the other team to kick that game tying game winning field goal. When you're like, okay, that's a mistake too because that offense is playing specific to the clock as well. And if they had a minute left or a minute less, I would say they would have run plays a little bit differently. I know I threw a ton of stuff at you,

but I guess I'm just trying to say that the clock thing can, I feel like too often fucks a team up more than it is. Like it, it focuses their priority away from what the priority should be. And that's moving the football still. So I'm going to clip that audio of your rant right there. I'm going to play it to all the coaches that coach for me. I could not agree more.

I, I really don't have a lot of color to add to that, except this. I really don't have a lot of color to add to that except this. People are so data-driven and so driven by what they can understand, and they can understand a math equation of how much clock is going to run off. So they feel smart because now they can have an opinion on how you should have handled a game with 640 left in it. They have no idea.

Zero. They could study football for the next 10 years and not have the feel for how your offensive line is blocking. The feel of the corner, the wide side corner, and he's scared of Hopkins. The feel for the gaps that are unsound because of Kyler possibly threatening him in the run game. And they have no idea how they've practiced since the first day they're allowed to practice with COVID where they run twice as many plays in a 20-minute practice script

than anybody else does. So that's what they're conditioned to do. So... Yeah, hey, fast team, now go slow. But also still get a first down. And you're like, wait, you took away the thing that we like and that we're good at. And you're asking us to be a different offense, but also end up with the same execution. And that's not factored into any of this stuff. And what gives us an advantage? You know, the reason they use tempo isn't just to get more

plays. That is a part of it, But they use it because they can create certain looks because teams are so frenetic to line up. It might be the difference in a three technique to a two technique for the right guard. That's a big difference in the NFL, outside shoulder to head up. It might be the difference in the depth of the linebackers. They're standard when they're just frantic.

They line up at five. When you give them times, they're going to walk up in the gap and play it two and three and make it harder for your center guard to get up to the next level. I mean, there's football is, is calculus, uh, right now at the highest levels and tempo makes it pre-algebra. Uh, and that's why they do it. So it gives them an advantage now saying all this I'm also really impressed with Cliff and Kyler at times and I've talked to some air raid guy Phil Longo

North Carolina right he does a great job with this he's one of the best coordinators in all college football he does a great job of playing fast playing fast playing fast that's who we are we're gonna play fast and then we're gonna dummy. We're still going to be at the line of scrimmage, still put stress on you, but do some other stuff in 20 seconds to bleed some of that clock while the clock is running. And I've seen Cliff and Kyler do some of that where they're not going to change their attack posture. Maybe call it posture. Your posture is playing lightning fast. But then you can change, you can go up there with a posture of playing fast and then slow it down with some cool bells and whistles. So I think that's the secret sauce for these guys to play

tempo. I'm still learning a lot about it. I'm going to study it more this off. See, they don't let us play fast in middle Tennessee, so we really can't do that much of it. But I've talked to a lot of these guys around the country. Now that they played hyper fast, six, seven years ago, let's play hyper fast. Gizmo plays. Who cares about the clock? We're all geeks. Let's just go. Then I kind of went to, you're all being made fun of. So now some of them went under center and they slow it down and they don't really know who they are. And then a handful of them have said, OK, let's still have the posture and let's still make that our thing. We're going to play fast, but we do have to incorporate some wise, discerning tools in the midst of playing fast to play clock football when needed. Let's talk about Russell Wilson. We know the start was incredible. He's now had seven

picks in his last four games, two more against the Rams. Is something wrong with him or is he trying to make up for an awful pass defense? I double-barreled you. Yeah, I know he's trying to make up. You can see it, right? Yeah, Vic was on call this morning before me, and I was listening, and I thought Vic did a great job of explaining. I think it was his 2012 team, I think he was talking about, with the Eagles. And, you know, as a quarterback, and I'll say us, and I don't mean me as much as us. Yeah, I get it. We're the best at everything we do from a young age right so you're the best ping pong player you shoot pool better than everybody else you shoot

the basketball better than everybody else you have more home runs you date cuter girls like you're kind of just the dude from about time you're 14 on um and you've also carried your team so for the most part and I did this in basketball, I remember, you know, our team needed me to score 40. I scored 40. It was a game that it needed me to, or better than me. You get your 14 and your six rebounds. You go on the bench and check out the cheerleaders, uh, in the stands. Um, but you've, you had the ability to do that. Um, so your, your whole mantra as a quarterback is, i'm gonna carry the water i'm gonna fill the gaps i'll find a way i'll will this and now you're talking about russell put everything i just said

you know sprinkle crack on it i mean he is the ultimate competitor he's been the best of the best of the best of the best of the best forever the best forever. And this year, he's the best player on the planet. And now he's sitting there and he's listening to the media because it's unavoidable. It's on your phone every day. You're watching practice. Coaches are yelling and screaming at the defense. Oh, you blew that coverage again.

You're sitting there Saturday night in bed going, gosh, we got to score 38 tomorrow to win. I better take some chances. And you're seeing the weight of that cause him some issues right now. He's making more mistakes than you would think he would. You know, if I was his coach, and he's got really good coaches, I would say, listen, man, do you. You know, do your job. Be a little selfish with this thing.

Be selfish in the sense that play your position the best it can be played. Be the best player in the world. And part of that's decision making. Don't look at the score. Really don't look at the score. Just go out and every single play, try to do your job better than anybody. Do it better than Patrick Mahomes is doing it. Do it better than Aaron Rodgers is doing it. And then stack those 60 minutes up and at the end of the year, we'll win more games because you did that instead of trying to put on the Superman cape and making up for the deficiencies that we have. If you can convince him to do that, then you're going to see 23 touchdowns, one interception down the stretch.

But if he keeps trying to put on the cape, you're going to see 16 touchdowns, one interception down the stretch. But if he keeps trying to put on the cape, you're going to see 16 touchdowns and nine interceptions down the stretch. Give me the playoff contender right now that no one is talking about. Raiders. They're brilliantly boring. They do nothing that would make you want to tune in

because it is old school, slobber knocker, we're tougher than you football. He's playing, I mean, he's got multiple tackles on the field, multiple tight ends. He's finding, he's inventing ways to run the football. Their play action passing game is not real glamorous, except every once in a while they'll take a shot they hardly ever just drop back and throw it which i think is brilliant because that's

not who derrick is i think derrick's a play action guy a lot like tan i think derrick car ryan tannahill same player literally same player you have to find what they do well and do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and they will shred people uh and john's found it i think mayock um and mike and i have never really been that close i've known him forever i didn't know he's this good of a personnel guy what i like about him is it's like him and john think the same thoughts they're drafting the same the same type of guy um and those guys fit so I just love what they're doing. I do a show in Central California every week where I talk about Derek. Obviously, he's a Fresno guy and talk about the Raiders.

So I kind of stay tuned to what they're doing. And every week I'm, like, trying to find something flashy and sizzly to talk about, and I can't because they're so boring. But they're fantastically boring. And it would not surprise me that the first round of the playoffs, they beat a team that's supposed to beat them a higher seed, and they rush it 39 times for 218 yards, and Derek Carr throws the ball for 187 yards,

two touchdowns on 18 of 26 passes. And that's it. But it finally feels at least a little bit more stable for him, which is not something he's had the luxury of since John rolled in because of John's history. And that Derek kind of had this start to the career where you go, Oh, this is great.

And there's even some MVP talk about it years ago. And then it's like, Oh no, they're probably going to go ahead and replace this guy. And now he's kind of back to, all right, fine. We're not going to build our team around him.

We're not going to play call around him the entire time, but we're really, he's perfect for what we're trying to do and that's perfect right i think john gruden mike vrabel the same person too like you know you there's there's same dna if you went into a mayock no mike vrabel oh well okay yeah i'm doing the yeah i'm doing the titans raiders thing again like they're tough guys they, they're getting a bar fight. They're going to jump in and protect their guys that they want tough old school football players. They're both smart enough to do all the modern day things that help you gain an advantage. But

the end of the day, they care about toughness. They care about attitude. They care about the right kind of guys and they want their quarterback. They're going to tell the quarterback, yeah, we're not building around you because there's millions of Superbowls have been won without building around the quarterback. You build around the entire team. You need your quarterback to do his job at the highest rate possible, but his job is different for the Raiders than it is the Kansas city chiefs. And there's not a right or a wrong.

It's what fits your team. And I think Derek's doing a great job of buying into that. not a right or a wrong. It's what fits your team. And I think Derek's doing a great job of buying into that. You mentioned the tough guy thing. There's times where I think sometimes you forget what this sport is and what guys say to each other in the tunnel. And then the outside world tries to go like, oh, well, that's just not, you shouldn't do. And you're like, all right, look, like your workplace is different, believe it or not. And like Brian Cox and those guys saying like, I would get arrested doing the stuff that I get to do all day on a Sunday. And that's why I love my job. When you have real toughness on the team, like, can you think of times, was there a coach where

you go, this guy's actually tough. He may be old, he may be whatever, but I actually trust that this guy's tough. First, an example of one of my favorite Belichick things is when I think Wickersham did this long form ESPN piece on Belichick. And let's face it, like a lot of guys don't like him, jealous of the success. But one other personnel guy goes, hey, when did he become a tough guy? Which I thought was sort of funny. He even pointed out, he's like, I think he lost his starting job as a senior to a freshman on some small college team. So what are we talking about here?

He's like a lacrosse, like they were just kind of dumping on him the whole time. But there is a realness, like tough knows tough and tough definitely knows guys that aren't tough. So do you have any examples of that from back in the day? You know, tough is a really hard thing to articulate to somebody that hasn't been asked to be tough. I would put it in the resilience will. There's passion including that. I think there's a confidence optimism that's built into

toughness um but there's also just a flat endurance uh i will outlast you um no matter what that yeah you might have gotten that one or you might get that one oh things are looking good for good for me right now don't worry They will at some point because I'll keep pushing. I'll keep going. I will outwork you. I'll outlast you. I'll thank you. I'll physical you. I'll play with more injuries. I'll do the harder things. I'll lift more weights. I'll say the hard things in a meeting room that not everybody else is too PC to say. That's what tough guys do. And yes, I've had coaches. Gosh, tough my head. I'll give you a tough guy that nobody would ever think is a tough guy. Lovey Smith, Lovey Smith, the linebacker coach in Tampa.

Like he was got no, there was no doubt that Lovey Smith was going to be a great coach for us in Tampa, be a great head coach in the NFL. And now at Illinois it hasn't worked out great, but he's continued to climb the ladder. I think, I'm trying to think, Nolan Cromwell. Nolan Cromwell was our receiver coach in Seattle. I think our guys weren't quite sure some of these young punk receivers

we brought in think they're hot stuff. Here's this guy that played back in the 70s for the Rams. And, you know, who is this guy? And back in the 70s for the Rams. And, you know, who is this guy? And then you go put on Nolan Cromwell tape and you start hearing his stories. You start hearing what he endured as a player, as a coach climbing the ladder. And now, you know, this guy is a tough guy. I'll give you Clyde Christensen. You know, Clyde Christensen is one of the nicest humans in the history of football ever. Ask Peyton Manning, ask Matt Hasselbeck, ask Tom Bray, who's coaching right now. Kai Christian's a tough guy. He's going to work you.

He's going to think you. He's got more endurance than you. You're going to kick him in the face. He's going to get back up. I mean, he's just a guy that's got endurance, got resilience. So it's got a lot of different faces, but it matters. You know, I think the coaches, if you go back and you look at coaches that have built their core values around this physical and mental toughness, they're also guys that have hoisted up a lot of Lombardi trophies, a lot of BCS championships. Urban Meyer. I mean, Urban Meyer's a tough guy.

He built his whole program on toughness and discipline. And he's wildly successful. You can go on and on and on. But it's something that I think people misinterpret. It's not getting in a bar fight. That's not toughness. We call it fake tough, right? When you throw the first punch, it's fake tough.

There's other elements of toughness that you have to be in the arena to really understand it. And you're in the arena long enough and you see guys that many times they never throw a bunch, but they're still the toughest guy in the room. Two more things here. Can you tell, and this is a bit off my Lamar thing, where we had the first half of last season Lamar, we had the second half, which was like statistically perfect off the charts.

And now we see a Lamar that reminds us more of the guy that was struggling in only his second year. We could talk about how young he is and all these things, but can you figure out almost the way a pitcher is figured out where a hitter has a hole in his swing? I'm not saying necessarily Lamar has a hole in his swing here, but can you tell what's happening when it looks like maybe a younger guy that put up some numbers is regressing? Is it to the point where you feel like Lamar has been figured out a little bit? I don't think he's been figured out. I think that when they can't play the game on their terms,

he is not a superstar. He's just a good player. When they can play the game on their terms, he's a superstar. When they can scare the defense with their misdirection run game where he's a part of it, with their crossing routes that just create so much conflict for the linebacker. I mean, to play middle linebacker against the Baltimore Ravens would be my biggest nightmare

because you have so much going on in front of you. Oh, and you've got to drop back in the middle of the field and play these tight ends and receivers crossing in the passing game. When they play the game on their terms, they're still really good and he's still special. It's when they get outside of who they are. When they start going – I'll give it this simple, simplify it this much. When they start letting the defense

dictate terms, oh, it's eight man front, one high press coverage. We got to throw the ball outside. Like there's these old rules of football that people, some, for some reason, people keep following like an overloaded box means throw. Not true. Some of the best runs are against loaded boxes because they get lazy and they all think they have a gap. And if you get one guy out of his gap, there's a giant hole there. So when they start letting the defense dictate terms, they get outside of who they are and Lamar becomes very average. When they say, no, this is who we are and you got 60 minutes of this, good luck. You might stop us every once in a while.

Oh, you figured out the double-archer zone game? Cool. Because we got double-arch play-action pass coming off of it. So if you sold out for that, then we got this. And I think that that is where they get a little crazy at times is trying to be something they're not. And is trying to be something they're not. And they try to be something they're not because of what the defense tells them to do. Instead of them showing up to say, no, defense, we're going to tell you what we're going to do

all day long. Good luck. Last one. We know that Tua, part of its special teams, the defense, the great field position that they had in their win this weekend. But what have you seen from Tua in the three starts? His twitch. You know, I said it a lot getting ready for the draft that, you know, he's got this rare combination of horsepower and twitch where he's physically powerful. And I think you're going to see more of that. You're going to see more of his power.

I think they're going to run it. He'll create some time and space with his feet. He'll run for some first downs. He'll throw some big boy balls that make you go, ooh, and ah. But then he's got that twitch, the twitch of his eyes, how he can scan boundary to boundary so quick. His release, you know, once Collinsworth does a Sunday night football game with him, oh gosh, we're going to see the arc of his ball nine times in the course of the game and how fast his delivery is and it really is I mean it's Aaron Rodgers like with how quick it is and then you can combine and this is the one I really have a hard time explaining I'm looking for an easier way of explaining it but a lot of guys their eyes get somewhere, their feet settle, their arm starts. That's very typical. Good

quarterbacks do it. So their eyes, so I look at you, as I'm looking at you, my feet and my backside starts sinking to load up my throw. Now my arm starts, now the ball comes up. Okay, that's a typical sequence for many quarterbacks to, uh, eyes get there as he's loading his lower body. And as his arm is starting, it happens in one movement. And that's why you see the touchdown pass on a little whip route in the end zone where the guy fakes out and comes in. Yeah. That ball, when his eyes get to him, he'd have to super slow it. And I can't on my video at home, but you see his eyes get there and you see his left hip loading and the left elbow start to go back at the same time as his eyes are getting there.

So it's, it's freaky how much he can speed a process up because of that gift. A lot of it goes back to all these great coaches that have trained them. His dad, many passes, his high school football coach, you know, in Alabama, look at all the great coaches he's had. I think they're doing a great job with them there. When I was working with them, I mean, it was the one thing I said, I'm not touching this. Like, don't, we're not going to talk about this. I'm not going to try to explain it to you. I'm not going to show it to you on video. Just keep doing it. Even if you don't we're not going to talk about this I'm not going to try to explain it to you I'm not going to show it to you on video just keep doing it even if you don't even know what it is just keep doing this because this is special uh and you're going to see it come out as the year goes on you're going to see I can think of a throw he made uh to his buddy Jerry Judy against LSU um

Judy had dropped a deep ball in the end zone the play before, and I think they come back. Joey will fact-check me, but I think it's third and 18 the next play. And he's looking to his left, and Judy's running the deep dig over to his right. And in one movement, he comes back. It was incredible. He just comes back, and body, eyes, arm all matched up perfectly. He hits Judy on a crossing route. And I went back and looked at it all matched up perfectly hits judy on a crossing route and i went back and looked at over and over and over i'm just like i don't know one how he knew he was there

how he saw him before he came out of his hand and it was a perfect throw you're just going to see more of that as the year goes on yeah there's so much more to his vision and you can't put him into that reading one side of the field group we're in agreement we've been talking about him for a while but it was just funny because i've seen his decisiveness how accurate he is on kind of those powerful slants you know where he's like he he'll throw it low on purpose like that's a real veteran thing already where you're like oh he's actually throwing that down and away on purpose and i was reading a recap of something and it was a source it was a front office guy saying you know he really surprised me with his accuracy and the power on some of these throws. And the first thing I'm thinking of is one, you never watched him in Alabama or two. You just weren't, you weren't in the market for a quarterback. So you didn't do the work and that's fine too. You know? So I didn't want to make it sound like, oh, front office guy's an idiot, but I'm every time somebody says something about Tua where they're like, oh, I didn't know about this. I didn't, I go, okay, you've exposed yourself as somebody who doesn't watch college football

or you didn't really watch Alabama all that much because it wasn't that special. Welcome to my world, February 15th through draft day when every human in the world was calling me about them and they would expose themselves with their opening questions. And I'd just be like, I don't know what to say. I mean, I didn't invent all this stuff. I'm just watching it on tape. Like I got the same software you have. You could easily go back and watch all this stuff and see it play in and play

out. I mean, it was constant in college, how he would, I, you know, one of the scenes they ran a time, they called it Seattle at Alabama, but the three vertical package. And I can't tell you how many times he's inside on a guy reading the free safety and the free safety. I don't know if he's playing with the free safety or he's just progression reading it. And the free safety jumps the inside route. And in the same movement, he rips a 38 to 43 yard, just P,

just dime on a guy's front shoulder. And he never really saw the guy like he did all in one movement, go back to the national championship. Those are freshmen when he works inside out on the fade. When that ball leaves his hand on that rail shot, he doesn't see him. He feels them. And people figure it out. I'm not saying to me, the greatest player of all time.

I think all these young quarterbacks are amazing. I love the state of quarterbacking in general. But he just got something that I had never seen before. And people keep talking about Trevor. And I think Trevor Lawrence is no doubt the first pick. He's fantastic. He's awesome. I had nothing bad to say,

but to say he's that much better than Tua. I mean, I've, I saw them both in in there 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21. I'll still say that Tua is the best prospect I've personally ever worked with. That's Trent Dilfer. He joins us regularly here on the podcast. Uh, thanks man. I always appreciate it. All right, brother. See ya. No life advice, uh, because we were just hammered busy, hammered busy with all sorts of stuff. I got to run and tape like three more things before I even come up with Wednesday's podcast.

And then Wednesday is the NBA draft, so we'll be all over it. I have stuff that I'm just not comfortable being at that point yet. And who knows, maybe it all breaks before Wednesday or whatever. But I can't wait to do all the draft stuff. Our draft coverage of Ringer, it's going to be awesome. It's going to be a good chunk of the lead-up, the draft, and then after.

We'll have stuff. We're probably going to do a Wednesday pod. I don't know. It all might be part of the same thing. Just be sure you check out all the Ringer stuff, the Ringer feeds, and then me at Ryan A. Russillo if you want to see all the draft stuff because I can't wait. And free agency basically all happening at the same time and trades. And here we go. We're going to condense NBA offseason this one. So it's July, but we're just inside more and it's colder. Have a great week. Thank you. you