The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Sean Payton on His Career and Future, Celtics-Lakers Overtime, and NCAA Nostalgia With Dave Dameshek

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Russillo shares thoughts from his trip to Arizona to see Cardinals-Patriots, and observations from his trip to Crytpo.com Arena to see the Lakers-Celtics overtime battle (0:37). Then Ryen is joined by Super Bowl champion coach Sean Payton to discuss his first year off from coaching, arriving in New Orleans in 2006, the most impressive NFL offenses this season, Sean's next coaching job, and more (19:00). Then Ryen talks with Dave Dameshek of Wondery and the Extra Points network about college sports fandom, the "Old Big East" Indiana under Bob Knight, bully head coaches, and more (53:35). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:24:02). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Sean Payton and Dave Dameshek Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's podcast instead of tales from the couch tales from traveling arizona and lakers uh within 24 hours talk a little hoops maybe a little football too we've got sean payton where's he coaching next year i'll ask him that question. I guess we get kind of an answer. And Dave Damoschek has a new podcast out. Ryan Chase here. We're just going to bullshit like two old guys, but it was a lot of fun.

Finally caught up with him and life advice. Enjoy. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable.

Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. I know on Wednesdays, we do a lot of tales from the couch. This time we're going to do tales from activities because your boy's been on the move. Very active base. A lot of stuff going on for him. Monday night football in Arizona against the Pats. You would have thought I was like Captain Boston with my schedule.

And then I went to the Lakers Celtics overtime game last night, which was incredible. So that means I didn't watch a ton of everything that happened. Got to go back and watch that Golden State-Milwaukee game. But I'm just going to take you through it and how the mind works trying to figure out what I wanted to open the podcast with today. So I was in Arizona for less than 24 hours. Went with a friend. Was excited about the field pass access before the game. And I forgot that going from Scottsdale to Glendale for that game is a grind.

There's like seven different ways you can go and they all don't work out that well. So by the time we got into the stadium and walked up to the field and college games are way different than NFL games. Makes sense. You get to the field and they're kind of like, yeah, it's over, man. It's over. We get to the field and they're kind of like, yeah, it's over, man.

It's over. We already cleared the field. Cool pass, though. Totally understandable. It was something that when you looked around, you were like, there's nobody on the sideline. No one. No one on the sideline. I love that stadium. I've been there a couple times. I was there for the National Championship with Auburn. Oregon was there for the onside

kick. Alabama Clemson won. I think that's the only time that I've been there. But I do like the area. I do like the stadium. And then get to the seats. We're in the seats for maybe 30 seconds, and Kyler Murray blows out his knee. So I've never been in a stadium.

Shout out to State Farm Stadium. 63,000. It's the quietest I've ever seen 62,000 people. And I've seen some stuff happen in some college stadiums where everybody's really quiet. This was so quiet, if it were empty, you wouldn't have been surprised. As far as the game,

watching it not on TV, I got to tell you, Matt Jones, who I've not always been, I kind of feel like he's the guy that you'll have and you'll think we can do better than this. Doesn't mean he can't start for a long time in the league, but especially with now, like the bottom or the middle maybe is the best way to put it statistically, what you see quarterbacks doing.

And I need to work on this. I wanted to do something like looking at the worst quarterbacks or the bottom half quarterbacks from 10 years ago and compare them to what the guys are doing now. Because you can kind of talk yourself into some numbers and be like, well, look at this, look at that. And Mack hasn't had great numbers either. And watching Colt McCoy in person, which was actually a nice little treat to all of that. As we know, my fandom for Colt McCoy, tone low at halftime.

I was like, what's his third song going to be? There was no third song. I was like, well played tone low, but watching Mack in person and especially in the first half when they couldn't protect him. I'm like, I just don't know how much is on him. The tackles get beat the whole time. Credits to the Pats for changing things up, trying to get the ball out a little bit quicker. They hit a couple big plays. Arizona makes all these mistakes, and the Pats didn't get a nice win on the road that they need to stay alive in the AFC.

Now, as far as what that means for Arizona and Cliff and everything else, I know if you were to put together a list of the six to seven coaches, and I did this on my own. I haven't done it as a segment. I was like, all right, who's probably on the hot seat? Who would be somebody who would at least be mentioned on the TV shows? I think Cliff would be mentioned

just because of how bad the season's gone. I would make excuses for it, but people are just going to say that I'm sticking up for him. That's fine. But he did do a five-year extension that pays him to 2027. Steve Ke kime did the same thing who runs the organization so i don't know that teams love getting rid of a coach after that and going we're going to start

paying you for the extension when you're gone next year uh and if it's an excuse to be like well they already lost kyler and i think another additional that I was talking with somebody about last night, I'm not going to share it because I'm not sure that he told me that I could say that he said it, uh, but it's a good point. And that is, does Arizona, if Arizona were to say, Hey, we actually do want to do something different, which would seem aggressive considering that five-year extension, does this job become less desirable to the next big name guy that could be out there? Because as we learned yesterday, confirming what you just knew when you watched it in a way,

Kyler was on the ground and some of the reports after the fact, it was confirmed that he tore his ACL. So, is the topic Mac Jones? Nope, not really, because in person person I thought it was a lot better I thought he did some really good things despite this system that I'll still never understand I'll never understand like no other coach would ever survive what Belichick has decided to do with this offense and having a rookie contract at quarterback where they're basically free and doing it was one thing when I thought he wasn't spending money on receivers we knew he was spending money on tight ends because he loves tight ends we have great track record with it but he's actually just spent some money in a bad way when you look at

their cap number for receivers on top of everything else so that wasn't really the topic i fly back do i have anything on the airplane situation uh window on the way out, no one from either aisle side, no one C or D got up. I know everybody that argued that would be really happy. And then we saw a group of like seven people cut 20 rows because nobody did anything. Just a thought. And then I was on the way back, didn't stand up right away, didn't care. It was only an hour flight and then got mocked by a woman and her bags just destroyed. She cut up like four or five rows. Nobody boxed her out.

And then she just, small victory for her on the day. So credit to the people that say standing at any point is awful. I guess you win on that one. So I make it to the Lakers. That game was awesome last night. Not because of the outcome. That was an incredible building. Crypto, formerly Staples, when it's the Lakers and it's right,

that place is awesome. And that's what it was last night with the Lakers' comeback. So let's move it back here a little bit. So I figured Boston would be up for this one after Saturday night's drubbing by the Warriors. And then Monday they lose to the Clippers team, which is the version of the Clippers that you go, oh, this is why we're still supposed to talk about them.

Because I've said numerous times this season, I don't really know what to do with them whenever anybody's bringing them up as one of the true contenders. I'd like to maybe see it for a month straight from the group that's supposed to be out there, and then I'll make my opinion on it. They're the sixth seed as of today. They're 16-13.

The Clippers are three games out behind the one seed, which is now tied with Memphis and New Orleans. We've been playing this game of the Western Conference standings all season long because if you look at it, Minnesota, who's technically out of the play-in today, is the 11th team in the West. They're only five games behind the one seed. The Clippers five and five in their last 10, but Kawhi's starting to get things rolling. The Monday version that we saw of him against the Celtics was the best of the season. He's only played nine of their 29 games.

Like I said, went off Monday, just looked better. Because even when he hit the game winner against Charlotte, I thought defensively, when you watch that game, to see Terry Rozier get him on like three possessions late in the game that mattered, that was a little concerning. Although I would say Kawhi defensively is not nearly, and it's more reputation now and has been for a little while,

but he also hasn't been healthy long enough for me to maybe think like, is it partly because of you? Yes. Is it partly because of health? Yes. But against Boston, it looked a lot better. Kawhi's played in three of the last four games. Shooting numbers are probably not where you'd expect to be,

at least in this month, but he's playing 30 minutes per game in December, which is a jump up when you look at the game log, which again, isn't very long because he's missed 20 of these games. The Clippers, however, are 28th in offense on the season. So they've been hanging in defensively. I still feel like 16 and 13 is a nice win

for the ever-changing starting lineup for a team that feels like it's never quite had what they thought they were going to have, which I know will lead to revisionist history if it doesn't work again this year. Look, if you have a chance at free agency, end trading, getting Paul George means you get Kawhi Leonard. Everybody does it. It's the same rule as the Kevin Durant and Kyrie rule. So Boston gets smashed by Golden State, which I thought was actually a nice reminder about who Golden State can be and why I'm just not ever writing this team off. And I don't know that anybody really is. So it's not like, hey, wow, did you hear Rousseau the other day?

He's not writing off the Warriors. That guy's a fucking nut. No, that's not what I'm asking for. Golden State, however, with the bad defensive numbers that are on the road compared to their home stuff, there's just little reminders of you going, yeah, okay. stuff. There's just little reminders of you going, yeah, okay, if you're capable of doing this to the Celtics who have clearly been the best team in basketball this season, then this is why

even if the record in seeding isn't what I want it to be in February, I don't know if there's going to be a version of them in the regular season where I go, you know, I just don't see it because I thought that's what Saturday night meant. They also did such a great job against Tatum defensively, just having that second defender always ready to shade over and come over and help quickly, which I think took

Tatum out. And then you could say it was both things. Golden State's defense on Saturday and Tatum having maybe the worst game of the season where you're like, what's wrong with you tonight? Cuts, not being ready for the basketball, bad shot selection, some of the stuff that would bother you when the offense got a little bogged down with Boston. So with Boston losing Saturday and then Monday and then having the back-to bother you when the offense got a little bogged down with Boston. So with Boston losing Saturday and then Monday and then having the back-to-back with the Lakers, where I heard a stat the other day where when it's the Clippers-Lakers back-to-back,

the Lakers have gotten the team 14 times out of the 21 and the second one where the Clippers have only had it happen seven. I think that's right. I'm not 100% sure, but that's a massive advantage for the Lakers. But because Boston had played so poorly, they're going to be up for this game. And boy, were they up for it. Even though they have no Horford still,

Rob Williams' flirtation with him coming back last week, which didn't happen. But Boston, through the stretch, their last seven games, they're last in offense in the NBA, which is a little surprising because overall in the season, that's been their biggest thing. The defense has been the part that's been below the standard, but it's gotten better and gotten better, but nobody really cared because the offense was blowing everybody out. So Boston goes up 37-24 in the first quarter. They're up 79-59

in the third. Boston scored though, because I was looking at this as I was sitting there. Boston scored four points over the last 540 of the third, and then four points the first 536 of the fourth. So that's eight total points in the Celtics in almost a quarter's worth of play. Over 11-16, they scored eight points. That building

was rocking. They had LeBron working Tatum into the Grant Williams switch. It was just LeBron and AD stuff. They were doing it further away from the basket as opposed to what they were doing, like tight, tight, shorter quarters there against Milwaukee. I shouldn't say shorter, but it was just they were doing it a lot closer to the basket, which you don't really see happen all that much. And it was working in perfection against Milwaukee. In this case, LeBron just wanted Grant. And seeing LeBron in person as I've watched him on TV throughout the entire

season, it's very clear to me that at this stage of his career, it's him looking like he's lost a step to moments where last night he had enough dunks that could have filled an entire season's highlight DVD. All right. He was going off while I think he was still tired. He even subbed himself out at one point, too, because I think they're just moments with LeBron, especially on defense, where it's a lot to ask of him at this stage to keep it. I think he'll have a couple lulls throughout seasons or this season where he's just not feeling it physically and yet

he'll still have moments in the game where it doesn't look like he's himself where it looks like he's a teenager so it's it's actually this is all being super impressed and the defense was really good when the Lakers took this game back they did a really good job just some really simple schematic stuff of making sure they're focusing on Tatum leaving Blake Griffin by himself Blake. Blake had a rough start to the fourth quarter. First three minutes there were just tough. That's exactly what the Lakers wanted. I think because Grant Williams holds up so well defensively, they thought maybe they could live with it against LeBron. They couldn't. I mean, LeBron got him one time, just went right past him, got the switch, brought it back out, and it was just on. And then when you have Grant that far away, who's kind of your de facto

five, if you have AD role, the help is going to be too small. And if LeBron works Grant, the help is going to be too small. So Boston's trying to, they've been surviving defensively with this, but then they started exposing it. And even Westbrook, on the ball, defensively, like on the ball

it's different when he's opposed to having to think and make decisions off the ball. He's a mess, but he deserves credit for it. But as you're watching this comeback from the Lakers happen and the crowd is going, I can't emphasize. It's just such a great crowd, right? I'm like, man, these guys are playing a lot of minutes. Looks like the Lakers are going to win it. AD misses two free throws.

Free throw issue going back to the Philly game where he missed one that could have put it out of reach or at least they would have been up with 3.1 to go. So I shouldn't guarantee anything on that. So that's part of the small AD storyline. Always makes his free throws. Now has missed big ones within a week of each other against

good teams. Well, it felt like you were going to beat at that time. Although that Philly game, let me back that up. They were down so much. I can't believe they even got that thing to overtime and then they got it to overtime and then they couldn't score. And that's where after Tatum hits this insane step back where I was kind of towards the baseline against LeBron, that'll be one of the, like when,

when Tatum ends up doing whatever he ends up doing, that will be one of those possessions. I'm not calling it MJ, but going between his leg and the guard against the entire Celtics, including Bird. But it was flirting with that kind of level of, again, LeBron, older, whatever. But it was a nasty, huge shot.

Ties it up, okay? So I look, I'm like, man, the Lakers aren't subbing anybody. And they didn't. I went back and looked at it this morning. AD played 34 straight minutes. So that's the end of the second half, or excuse me, end of the first half, the entire second half, and overtime.

The Westbrook, LeBron, Anthony Davis, Reeves, I think it was Troy Brown, they played all of the fourth quarter. That doesn't happen. I always look for subs. I'm like, oh, I wonder what they're doing or how they do this. LeBron at times will come out in the middle of the, like the middle of the fourth and then come back in. They didn't do any of that.

And Ham explained it. But then once you started overtime up, like I really felt like, okay, Boston tied. They got to overtime, even though their offense has been so bad. They finished strong and had a couple of nice plays. It feels like they've tightened up the defense here a little bit. Like, what are you going to expect

from this group that's been out there the entire time on the Lakers side? And it's tough. The amount of energy that you have to use to come back like that and play defense the entire time. So Boston ends up winning this thing

in overtime. I've already talked about the LeBron part of it. Hey, on my notes, I made sure the Westbrook is good part. Although Westbrook kind of played into the Celtics' defensive strategy, which we see all the time with Westbrook. He couldn't help himself there in the overtime.

Took a couple shots that you definitely didn't want him to take. But I would close on kind of like my thought on Tatum. I'm going to tease this. I'll probably just do it Friday. on kind of like my thought on Tatum. I'm going to tease this. I'll probably just do it Friday. Because when Tatum, I always push back

when it's like, hey, somebody's playing this well. He's playing this well in comparison to everybody else. This is what his stats say. But it's the same thing kind of like with the SEC conference stuff. For you to be the next conference that says we're now the best, that's going to take some time.

That's not 48 minutes and what's the best, that's going to take some time. That's not 48 minutes and what's the score. That's going to take some time. And whenever I think about the top five players in basketball, that is almost something that takes a year plus for me to go, okay, I'm ready to go ahead and put this there for you. So for Tatum, who's probably there right now, and is the MVP favorite, by the way. So you're like, okay, this is not breaking news.

But to truly be there and then compare that list to how many guys you could say, hey, I think he could be top five one day. That seems like I'm always going to say no to that. And Tatum's a yes. Tatum's a yes. Massive shot. I know he stunk on Saturday against Golden State. But some guys have some bad games.

And he saved it for the very end against L.A. in a game that felt like, wait, they're going to blow this one too. And they didn't, especially after losing those first two in California. Looking to get more out of the NBA this season? Well, now is the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, because new customers get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000.

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Expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. This episode of the Ryan Rosillo podcast is brought to you by State Farm. All right, football fans. The good neighbors over at State Farm wanted me to let you know you don't really have to get that personal to get the personal price plan. Seriously, there's no need to tell anyone that you make custom DJ remixes of your team's

fight song or that you memorize the choreography to every dance routine of your team's cheerleading squad. We already talked about my buddy who was a cheerleader, right? I think we did do that. I don't know if he tells anybody that anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with it, right? But I don't think it's on his LinkedIn. I don't think that it is on his LinkedIn.

So that could be potentially a little too personal if he were going to do that. And it really almost backfired, too, when he was in college. But then it was huge for him because it was a real icebreaker. That's right. I used to cheerlead. And now he's a successful teacher shaping the minds of tomorrow's youth or today's youth, tomorrow's generation. That's right. The State Farm Personal Price Plan

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We'll get to that a little bit later, but it's Sean Payton, who is kind of a part-time neighbor now, so it's good to see you again. Yeah, hey, great seeing you. Man, it's nice getting adjusted out to the California weather and the climate and the convenience of everything. It's a lot different than I expected. Yeah, that's what I tell everybody. They're like, oh, that place is the worst. LA is the worst.

I'm like, well, I don't really live in LA. I feel a lot softer than I've ever felt. I feel like I need to toughen up a little bit, but I'm not complaining about anything. So that's good. No, that's right. But no, I think you're right. I think, um, you know, we, we clump everything into LA and there's so many different pockets to that area. Uh, and it's much broader or larger than, you know, the, the cities that I'm used to such as Chicago or New York. And it's, you know, here you are within the blocks. It's a lot more spread out.

Yeah, it's almost like its own state. There's just a bunch of different versions of it. And that's kind of how I try to explain it. So what's it been like this first year you're not working? What's this been like for you? It's been good. It's kind of been what I've hoped it would be. And I've had more time with my family, children,

been able to travel a little bit, certainly been able to golf. I've got one of those frustrating golf games, but I enjoy it nonetheless. And, you know, it also allows you a break, not only physically, but mentally from that grind. I just felt it was necessary for me. And, you know, the, there's a point at which you're going and you're going and you're going in the hours are long. And, um, you know, you, you, you can begin to know your own body and feel the wear and tear. And so, uh, um, I've been able to check a lot of those boxes that I was hoping to when I made that decision. We'll get to the future

because you know that's where this is going at some point. But I want to go backwards. I want to go back to 2006, the first year you're in New Orleans. You get Breeze in. You turn the franchise around. The city had gone through a ton, so there's a lot that I wanted to do. But I don't know it well enough, right?

I didn't play. What is that like when you've had these years as an assistant and you have all these thoughts of what you'd be like as a head coach and you get a quarterback in like Drew who's going through his own stuff, but we know how talented he is, when you first have that relationship and you're trying to build an offense together, what are those early moments like that, again, ended up being the introduction of what was a long marriage?

Yeah, so look back year, our first year, 2006, we had the second pick of the draft. And I would say that a lot of the energy and focus in January, early February was just that. Who were the quarterbacks in the draft? Certainly, we were paying attention to who the veteran quarterbacks on the street were, but we knew we were going to add and make a change at quarterback. What we didn't know at that time that Drew was going to be available,

he gets released by the Chargers at the end of February, right during the scouting combine, because I can recall the day. And so when that took place, it kind of, there was another door then, another choice, you know, that we had to look at. Now, it didn't come without some challenges. Of course, he was rehabbing a shoulder injury that he had hurt in the last game of the season that he played with then San Diego.

So we began that process. We were also full steam ahead, evaluating the college players. And then we were in the midst of lining up a visit with Josh McCown. And so to get to your question, we go all in with Drew. You know, he goes through the rehab. That first mini camp when he's with the Saints that spring, you know, he's not really even throwing the football. He's in the huddle.

He's able to take a snap. He's leading. ball. He's in the huddle. He's able to take a snap. He's leading. And yet he's doing all of that without actually throwing. So there was no throwing until the fall camp of 06. I think it was important for us because we were new putting in a system, we had time enough to know some of the terms that he used in San Diego. Pete Carmichael Jr., who was our quarterback coach at the time, who's now the current coordinator, Pete was a quality control coach on the Chargers staff. So Pete kind of brought to us, hey, this is what he knows. This is what the offense called this. This was the terminology we used for that. This was our snap count. So we had kind of a translator, if you will, in the building. And Pete was hired long before Drew

was even a thought. And so it made sense for us then, if we were on the ground floor putting in our offense, to then pivot a little bit, adjust a little bit as to what he knew and call it that. The rest of us had learned. So that happened early enough in the process. That was February going on March now when we signed Drew. And we weren't handing out playbooks for another month or so. And then at that point, I'm going to try to describe it as best I can. Fifteen years later, you end up in this giant house, right, with all these bedrooms and movie rooms, and that's where we play air hockey, and that's the ping pong

table room and and you're not quite sure when any of these rooms were built they were just built gradually over those 15 years and that became the offense and there's an evolution to that and in 06 you know it it, it's centered around the pieces. And that was Deuce McAllister and Reggie Bush. And Marcus Colston was a rookie and Terrence Copper. And, you know, you're gradually taking what you have and then putting together what's best for your team. And then 07, 08, 09, you know, is Jeremy Shockey.

Um, it's still Reggie Bush, Pierre Thomas, uh, Mike Bell. Um, it's Robert Meacham. It's Devery Henderson, Marcus Colston. Uh, it's Dave Thomas. And it's, it's not until you begin to look back occasionally and you say, man, it's almost like looking at old photographs and you can't believe that was what we did in 07 or that was what we did in 2010. I can't believe we wore blue jeans that way. We cut our hair that way. So there is a little bit of evolution to it. Yeah, that ended up being like, all right. So I kind of feel like I have more on that because you'll be with Drew for so many years. Do you go, okay, we can't stay the same because then everybody's going to figure out what we're doing.

So what are those things when you and Drew are talking where you go, hey, what if we tried this or I saw so-and-so do this or I saw this in a college game? hey, what if we tried this, or I saw so-and-so do this, or I saw this in a college game? How do you start to keep growing out what the available design is of what you're trying to build as an offense? To what you just said is nonstop. In other words, sure, in the offseason, when you're finished the regular season, you have studies. Coaches will go study three teams. You'll bring back ideas. You'll implement new thoughts. But I would say even during the

season, not only are you looking at opponent tape, but you're looking at games that are being played each weekend, the touchdown reel, you know, all the touchdowns scored in the NFL that weekend. And so these thoughts and ideas would always be thrown at the wall. And, you know, generally speaking, you know, if you threw 15 thoughts up there, one or two might stick. They might not fit us. But I would say it was ongoing. And so that, that sometimes leads to the, the, the addition

in the back of the house that, that went over the easement that we really didn't give much thought to. And, and, but we, we put it in on a Thursday and we liked it a lot. And then we started calling it. I think our goal when we built the system though was, look, if we all just left here today and we opened up the playbooks and we left them on the table, we walked away, would a new staff be able to come in and look at it all and be able to piece it together. And I think certainly the longer we were there, the harder that process would have been. But we knew what we want to call something, but more importantly were the ideas. And then I would say, Ryan, who we were studying.

You have to stay relevant with the game. so i'll give you an example um we just finished this weekend's games in the nfl today's what wednesday tuesday or wednesday and we're working on our upcoming weekend opponent and let's say we're playing the Bears and we're studying all Bears tape, we're looking at Bear defense, Bear offense, we still need access to things that took place this past weekend that were successful and were cutting edge or it was a twist or something that was unique that could help us. So you had to divide that labor a little bit, and you had to look outside the box a little bit.

And, yeah, the focus is on the Bears, but wait till you see what happened with Detroit last weekend against the Vikings. This came in a red zone, third down play, and you looked at it and you're like, we need that. third down play. And you looked at it, you're like,

we need that. That was just paying attention to, paying attention to the, the trends. Whose offense impresses you the most in today's game then? Well, it's funny, just,

we just brought up Detroit. Man, they made some changes in the off season. I know a few of the coaches there. I don't know the coordinator or the play caller, but they clearly have gone from, you know, whatever they were a year ago to where they are today. They're by far the most improved offense, and it's not even close.

Oh, let's see. I like looking at Kansas City because of Mahomes, and Andy does a good job. He'll have some wrinkles you like looking at. I would say Philadelphia is doing some good things. They're doing some things in the running game that may or may not apply to your own offense, and yet you still have to watch them.

You have to watch, oh, if I were to bounce around the league, generally speaking, you're watching Green Bay. I haven't seen any tape of them this year really as much, but Detroit's a team that would jump out at you a little differently. Buffalo does some unique things as well. Okay, so you were a little spoiled there with Breeze for as long as you had him, but obviously you were on staffs prior to being a head coach. It depends on the personality, right?

Every quarterback's personality is different, but pro athletes can be very similar, and it's like they don't want to be told what they can't do. They have to have a certain confidence. You just have to have enough of an ego to even get you this place at the first point but like if you're if you're shanahan and you're working with brock purdy are you saying like hey look here's some of the things that jimmy could do we don't think you can do so we're going to take these out i don't know that you ever had to do that with drew but

have you had to at times massage the message with the backup and go, hey, I know you probably think you've got this throw. We may not think you have it. We're not going to call that for you. I guess, again, every guy would be different and unique in how that relationship plays out, but what is that challenge like? Yeah, look, the one thing you don't want to do, and you bring up another good offense.

San Francisco would definitely be one that I didn't bring up earlier that you'd want to study. You don't want to be practicing things that you know as a play caller you're not going to call. Then you're not being efficient with your time. You not being you know efficient with your time you only have so many reps each week to practice and so ultimately um you want to appeal to the play call the play caller wants the quarterback to feel confident and comfortable with these things do i have to verbalize to my backup the week of, hey, these aren't plays I want for you? I probably don't even have to say that.

It's easy for me just to, you know, look, the week begins on a Wednesday morning and they come in and they get first and second down based installation. They get the run game. They get the play action, three-step, five-step, empty. That system Kyle runs there, which is very challenging to defend. They do a number of unique things in the run game and then bury a lot of it to what they want to do in the

passing game. I don't see that having to change a lot for Brock. I think the biggest challenge would be if the quarterback mentally wasn't able to verbalize in the huddle at the line of scrimmage. All right. He hasn't even thrown a pass yet, but can he keep up mentally with getting them in and out of the right place? And I don't think Brock Purdy would have been there this long had he struggled in that area. In other words, that's something that as a young player isn't necessarily always easy to do, but he seemed very comfortable at getting him in and out of a positive or advantageous place. You see it at the line of scrimmage four or five times,

just like you saw with Garoppolo. So I think he's got a young player who's confident. The two greatest allies for good quarterback play would be good defense and a running game. There's nothing worse than trying to play that position and can't run the ball well and you're in a shootout. All the pressure is on the quarterback. And so I think, to Kyle's credit, and watching them even this past weekend, Brock's going

to be smart enough to understand that. They've got a team that can contend and win this year. And so history has shown us in the past that it happened in New York with Hostetler. It's happened where a Super Bowl winner has been the backup quarterback for one reason or another by the time the season came to an end. So I think, yeah, you modify. There might be some things they like that Brock gives them that maybe they didn't have with Jimmy. And so the job of the coach, though,

certainly is to build around the skill set of the player. And I don't know that today, sitting here, I could say, well, clearly he doesn't do this as well or this as well. I mean, we would say he's not experienced, but I haven't seen anything with my eye yet to say, well, they've had to change this. Yeah, you're right. And I was probably using that more as just an example of transition instead of truly like i watched brock a lot of college but you know it's not like aropolo's mahomes either so you're right like i was kind of using that more as an example it becomes brian it becomes more

problematic when and and sometimes this happens when your one plays a certain way and your two is kind of different. Like, you know, Josh Allen at Buffalo, there's a certain way he plays that, man, it's rare. You're not going to find that in your backup.

And so how does your game change when the backup's in? right well quite a bit then you know you might have we would always have a separate call sheet if our backup wouldn't it was the same call sheet that we started with but it might be modified and a little bit tailored so that a ahead of time the backup could look at this and reduce the volume that he's studying, and then also, B, help the play caller see these are the plays he knows by heart, and these are all the things that we can still get to

without feeling like the offense is entirely changed. But in our league, there are a few guys where if the starter was out what's it look like when the two comes in and in some in some cases it's dramatic in some cases it's not okay i'm glad you brought up the giants because i don't i always assume a lot of us will have this half right half wrong let's go back 20 years ago. You're calling plays for Jim Fossil, and then in 2002, he takes the play calling from you. Was that to appease New York, or was that like,

hey, I actually think I'll do a better job than you at this? I think, in fairness to Jim, and it was the right decision, we had kind of stalled. Look, my first year calling plays was 2000. We went to the Super Bowl. And then in 2001, we didn't quite have the same success.

But in 2002, we kind of hit a skid. I had just lost my mother during the season she passed away believe it or not on our bye weekend and so we'd come back off the bye um and we we weren't scoring we were moving the ball but we weren't scoring the way we should have been and so so to his credit, we did all of a sudden there was a spike. So we continued our offensive preparation the same way. And Jim had called plays for a long time. And I think the hardest thing, I know from being a head coach and a play caller, it's sometimes you just,

it's hard when you're not the play caller and you're listening to someone else make those decisions. And you've done it's hard when you're not the play caller and you're listening to someone else make those decisions. And you've done it for so long. And Jim had done it for a long time. And it was the spark we needed as a team. It was difficult for me at the time. And yet, you know, there's still something I was learning from that. Keep your mouth shut.

Keep grinding. The team was winning. That was the year I believe we went to the playoffs and lost that crazy uh wild card game to san francisco with uh terrell owens and uh who was the quarterback that they had it was just a garcia yeah it was a a last quarter type comeback but it was this it was the spark we need okay now the funny thing about you and rumors is i think you've been rumored to be the cowboys head coach for almost two decades okay so this this isn't new you're winning a super bowl in new orleans you win it every year

and it's like you know he's eventually going to end up running the cowboys uh that hasn't happened yet um you're in every sort of rumor right now. What's this like for you? What's this like for you knowing? I know you're only going to tell me so much here, but what is it like as each week goes good or bad for the next guy that could be on his way out? What is that like for you knowing that you're brought up constantly in all these cities?

Yeah, I would say, um, look, it's, it's, it's nice to be wanted or feel as though, um, you're someone that, uh, a number of people would like to hire that feels good. All right. And, and obviously the other side of that is, you know, you're on the phone calling and no one's picking up your call. However, the one challenge for me, I think, is that, man, so many of these coaches I know really well, and I've always been sensitive to our league to some degree as marketed Black Monday. I mean, that term, you know, when did that start? Was that NFL Network? But certainly we don't back away from that first week after the season.

It's just another big news cycle. We have the combine. We have the draft. We have free agency. We have training camp. We have playoff news. We have the combine, we have the draft, we have free agency, we have training camp, we have playoff news, we have black Monday, anything. And so there's a part of me that doesn't like that element of it because these guys are currently working. They currently have jobs. They're not, it's different if a program, oh, as Carolina, and they have an interim head coach, or a program such as the Colts. Those two teams have moved on from their head coach.

But in the case of so many of these other teams, there are head coaches in place there with families and assistants. And so I'm sensitive to that because I've been on the other side of it. It's the business we're in. I haven't tried to pay much attention to it because I'm kind of diving into this job at Fox. Sure, I've made it known that I'll coach again and that I want to coach again. And whether that's this season or next season, hopefully it's within the next couple seasons, we'll go from there. But not every one of these jobs is, you know,

they're going to make changes on Monday in some of these places. They're going to make changes on Monday in some of these places. But if you did a deep dive, you'd say, man, this is just another change at the head coaching position. I want to know, why haven't you wanted 45 years? It's a fair question. It's a really good question. You won't get the NFL Network asking that question. But let me jump in really good question uh you won't get the nfl network asking that question all right but but let me let me jump like so you said you will okay at some point how much will the current quarterback who's who's at this city you know whoever how how much will that

influence the decision that a quarterback's already in place? I think, look, I read some of these things where this is what he has to, and it's like it's nonsense. The quarterback is important, but the functionality from front office to ownership is everything. And so it won't be because a club is not in position with the current franchise quarterback. I mean, those jobs don't come open. I mean, if the quarterback's a franchise player, they're probably winning. But it's going to be a lot more dependent on the leadership in the front office and the ownership.

Because there are some of those jobs where I don't care who your quarterback is. Like, if we're looking at past performance and we're trying to predict future achievement, you know, there's some of these places that have just been dysfunctional and it hasn't been a head coach issue. It's been more of an ownership issue.

Last thing, and then I want to get to what you're doing here. I didn't understand New Orleans. Like a lot of guys go down there at 20, do the stupid shit. You're like, okay, I've got it. But then I started becoming friends with the LSU people 15 years ago. They started bringing me down to New Orleans, their version of New Orleans. I got to know a lot of the locals, some of the peopleSU people 15 years ago. They started bringing me down to New Orleans, their version of New Orleans. I got to know a lot of the locals,

some of the people that you know as well. Shout out to Desi Vegas, who'd probably be thrilled to hear his name mentioned here. But to come in after Katrina, like I try to describe it. Like if you tell me you don't like New Orleans because this, this, and this, I'll say to that person, okay, I get it.

Like I'm not even going to disagree with you. I'll tell you. But if you get to experience what that community is like and for you to win a Super Bowl there and to live there and to be there as long as you can. Like, it is one of the most magical places, not just in the country, anywhere I've ever been. And I know it's not for everybody. ever been. And I know it's not for everybody, but what was it like for you to kind of not being from there, but to be so important to these people that needed it at the time? And that I guess, I think you and I, without saying it specifically, understand kind of where I'm going with it in that the place is just different in so many beautiful ways. The energy it has, it's different than any

other place. And for you to experience it and to be at the pinnacle of the sports world during those years, did you ever have a moment where you knew how different, how appreciated it felt? Yeah, we did. I think, and I speak for all of us, when we arrived in 06, there were a handful of players that were going to remain and be part of a championship. There were a number of new faces, coaches, players alike. I don't know that any one of us knew quite the journey we were getting ready to get into. We really didn't because it became so much more than just football. That city is unique in this way, and the easiest way to describe it,

rather than the southernmost city at the tip of North America, it's a lot closer to being the northernmost city in the tip of South America. And from a cultural perspective and food entertainment, but the people, um, the, the people that region and being from Chicago, being from Illinois, I mean, I couldn't have been any more foreign to that area. And yet, you know, we came at a, at a unique time, a difficult time. And that ride began in 2006. And I, and I would argue that 06 season was probably just as significant as the 09 Super Bowl season.

You know, that because the city was reeling, um, we had to, I think, wait two weeks before we opened at home. We didn't play any preseason games in the Superdome. It was still being repaired. The questions about New Orleans then were really education, infrastructure. Were the schools, were the hospitals going to come back? So football, although an important topic in that area, it still was second to so many of the other things that were paramount.

You know, our family's going to return. And we started winning, and it was, I think, a great diversion for the fans, for the people. And it became something that none of us, or at least most of us, could never have imagined. And when you'd land at an airport week 11 and there'd be 2,800 people at 1 in the morning, not a Super Bowl, I'm just talking about a regular season game, not a Super Bowl. I'm just talking about a regular season game. You recognize this thing was bigger than just the game of football.

It was about life, and it was about some things that, and you saw it in their faces, and everyone had chances to be involved in Mardi Gras parades. But it's an area, too, Ryan, that, you know, someone that buys a season ticket, a lot of times they sit down and say, hey, we're going to buy the season tickets in place of family vacation. In other words, this isn't corporate dollars that we're going to wine and dine our business travelers with. This is a decision to purchase season tickets. And that first year in 06, after we drafted Reggie Bush in that draft, we sold out for the first time in the club's history. And they're currently still sold out now, years later i think there's 20 or 30

000 people on a waiting list um but i would say it's a very similar if you tried to pinpoint who's at the game today a little bit like green bay you'd look at wisconsin and then it would spread to these other areas and that makes up the 75000 people at Lambeau field on any given game day. I think if you took that exercise in new Orleans, it would be Northern Louisiana. It would be Mississippi, Alabama into the Florida panhandle. And then throughout new Orleans,

like that's who's making up the game day ticket holder. And so it's for all the SEC football that's played in that region where you have two schools in Alabama, Auburn, Alabama, Mississippi, Ole Miss, Mississippi State. You have LSU. You have quite a handful of SEC programs. And yet there sits New Orleans. And you have all the way until you get to Atlanta, or you go west until you get to Houston or Dallas. So it's a football-rich region, but the fan base and what specifically was taking place post-Katrina was something that none of us could have been prepared for.

Yeah, that was what I wanted, and it was the answer I was hoping for. Last thing before I let you go, Zebra Technologies in its ninth season is the official on-field player tracking provider for the NFL, powering next-gen stats. I'm on the next-gen staff every Monday into Tuesday to kind of see where, how did that impact how you saw the game once you started realizing the value of some of the stats that they track? Yeah, for me, look, the partnership for me and Zebra made a lot of sense.

I'm kind of a skeptic at first, so I need to listen. I need to know how do I think it can help me. They've been with the NFL for nine years. My first buy was when I was able to look at pretty simple data that just told me what kind of practice each player had relative to distance traveled, energy used during this practice. And it gave me just a handful of simple readings that I could begin to look at. And so when I would ask in a staff meeting, hey, let's cut back and lighten up our practice load tomorrow. I had a little bit more definitive way of doing that, I had a little bit more definitive way of doing that, that I can look down and see the receivers on a two-a-day practice in training camp, the a.m. session, traveling in Brandon Cooks, he's been at 8-2 for two days in a row. Why is that?

And let's be smart. And so for me, it was soft tissue injury reduction and actually having an easy way to look at the difficulty level of our practice. And then we take it a little bit further and a little bit further for the Saints. All your fields are kind of marked just like you would if you have an invisible fence with an animal at home. And then anybody who's wearing the chip comes into that zone. We can see how many times Drew threw a pass today. We can see how many times the kickers kicked the ball today. And so that we're not randomly saying, oh, he worked pretty good today, or we actually can have a finite number that we can look at.

And then I think from the fan's perspective, my son loves to be able to hear that, hey, the fastest player traveled. Instead of, he looks fast, he actually traveled 22 miles an hour on that play. And so there is an entertainment value to some exactness relative to what these guys are doing on game day. Yeah, I mean, it's really, it can reinforce some stuff.

It can teach you some stuff. And then sometimes you're like, all right, wait, do I have it wrong on this guy? Sean, thanks a lot. Great job on Fox. It's been fun getting to see you in a different lane here. We look forward to the future, all right? Yep. Hey, thank you, Ryan.

I'm excited to talk to this guy. I don't know that we've ever talked to each other, which is kind of weird. I'm going to figure out if that's definitely true. Dave Damoshek joins us, co-host of the Don't Call It A Comeback podcast with Brian Shazier, who we did some work with as well.

He's also part of the Extra Points crew with Cousin Sal. So yeah, I don't think we've ever talked to each other, right? It is weird somehow that we wouldn't be two ships passing in the night or whatever the cliches are, given the overlap. Our Venn diagrams have a lot of people in the middle. Am I saying that right?

Either way, yes. Between the sports guy and Chris Long and Kyle Long and all the rest of them. Yeah, finally good to kibitz with you. All right, that's good. It's finally happened. We were kind of kidding around because I know you're a big college football guy i love college football as well and i always like i've brought up i've had this mini rant before nfl hardo guy who like likes the nfl so much he can't ever like anything else that's football

um which is weird and then they argue to be like why would you want to watch a lesser version of what it is and it's like okay so then you don't like you never do anything like you only watch dramas like you only like you know there's not a good rom-com in the old dvd collection at home so the point the point would be this like simmons one time was like what game is on today that i should watch and it was like an all-time sec game and And I was like, watch this game. And like, it got off to a bad start. And he's like, eh. I just go, so that's it. I had a 15-minute window with you for

this year, and it's just now college football. You're punting on all of it now for another five years. I don't have a lot of time. I'm only going to watch the highest level. Yeah, I've always found that weird for anybody. If you love, let's say, the NBA, aren't you intrigued to see where these guys are coming from?

Where they were last year before you start to learn their names in the draft process? Yeah, but the new level for me is now with Cousin Sal, I have to argue that Army-N a great three and a half hour watch. And now we're at a whole different level. Like the, we're not talking NFL football. We're not talking about sec or big 10 level football.

Now I have to justify spending my precious hours here on the big blue marble watching army and Navy struggle to get up over 31 and a half needing overtime to do it i think it's it's my favorite rivalry there is so that's your favorite one i mean obviously i wouldn't want i wouldn't want to focus only on that um that would not be a rom-com that would be kind of sad but But, you know, Sal was giving me the business about like, well, you know, the France and England soccer game outrated it.

Well, listen, that makes them ingrates, right? They wouldn't be playing that game if it weren't for our Navy and our Army saving that freedom, you know, 60, 70 years ago. But yeah, I love the rivalry.

I love the all grays on one side and the Navy and white hats on the other and the fight songs and, you know, them stacking up out on the field. All of that's great. The football is maybe third rate, but that's hardly a concern for me. We might have a king, though, if it weren't for that French Navy going back like 200-something years ago. So it's just always – I feel like growing up, all I would hear about is from older relatives is how weak the French were. And then you start reading some books, you're like, actually, I feel like they had a window there where they were super helpful. But they were only doing it to their own benefit. So we don't need to revisit all this stuff.

I listen to you and Shazir. Global politics is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately sport, as you know. I'm sorry. Go ahead with Shazier. Global politics is a what have you done for me lately sport, as you know. I'm sorry. Go ahead with Shazier. No, it is. It is. You're right. That feels like, hey, that's when he was coaching at Dallas. This is something I thought was almost mean. I was listening. Again, the concept of the podcast, sometimes I'm worried if there's too tight of a lane. I'll be like, oh, no. Do they have to every week have it fall under these parameters? But you're very loose with it.

And like, hey, Michigan now has come back in the Ohio State rivalry. You guys work Shazier pretty bad on that one. Is that your own personal distaste for Ohio State Buckeye football or is it personal between you and the co-host? Well, first of all, that was exactly my concern. Are there enough comeback stories? Are we really going to be is this too narrow a lane we're choosing here? But so far, my cynicism has been washed away by good conversations about Deion Sanders bringing back HBCUs and the attempted rise or return from nowhere, I guess.

Was the U.S. ever good on the global stage in soccer? Either way, trying to become relevant there and otherwise. But yeah, I'm an Indiana Hoosier. So, of course, I have equal disdain for Ohio State and Michigan. But yeah, it was more fun just to give Shazia the business. Taylor LeJuan joined us. And obviously, the last two years have given him bragging rights. So that was good fun to be there.

And I don't like conflict if I'm involved in it. But I like to be there and kind of poke to other people so that they can have a conflict. Okay. So what does an Indiana fan... How do you align yourself with what goes on with football? Like, well, I, I fortunately, I, I think, uh, I think Simmons would, uh, refer to me as a polygamist, but I'm born and raised on the banks of the three rivers. I spent, um, every Saturday of my childhood when the Pitt Panthers were at home. I was at

Pitt Stadium watching that unique talk about a great era in college football that I'm sure if you're 20 and listening to us right now, you can't relate to. But the Northeast was just all independence. And it was essentially then its own conference. You had Penn State and West Virginia, And it was essentially then its own conference. You had Penn State and West Virginia, Syracuse, B.C., Pitt, Army, Navy, Rutgers and Temple always playing each other. Those were the schedule. So I'm a dyed in the wool Pitt fan in addition to an Indiana Hoosier fan. So I can kind of pick and choose based on the season. If the Hoosiers have a good basketball team in a given year, I'll focus in on those.

season if the Hoosiers have a good basketball team in a given year I'll focus in on those but when Jamie Dixon and Ben Howland were doing their thing for 20 some years I focused in on uh on pit basketball but um you know the the beauty of Indiana football sincerely is that when I was when I was matriculating there have you ever ever been to Bloomington? I have. Tom Crean invited us to a basketball game. They set me and Van Pelt up. I think they brought out a table and just gave us folding chairs and put us there. And again, it was the kind of place I grew up. My father loved Bobby Knight,

and then he became a co-worker. And I was like, I don't think I'm as big of a fan. He wasn't really a co-worker. We just technically still both worked at ESPN. There was a lot of stuff that I did like about him. And then I felt like he was sort of a bully and I was just kind of over it. But I remember my father loving him. So I was obsessed with college basketball back then.

I didn't want the key smart shot to go in because I wanted the Big East to win another title, which I think it was funny because I remember Danny Connell, my co-host, getting so mad about the SEC thing. He goes, no one's ever done this. He's like, nobody's ever done this. It's so stupid. Joel Klatt said it to me last week. He goes, the SEC's propaganda machine of deciding that everybody roots for everybody. I was like, when I was a little kid, I used to root for Syracuse and Georgetown, even though I was a St. John's fan when the tournament came around because I wanted the Big East to be the best conference because there was this window where it was the pros conference. And again, as you would know, as a pit guy going way back, there was a stretch there for the Big East that was unmatched, right? It was unbelievable. And I was like, no, no, no. I cared about conference hierarchy back then. And he looked at me like I was making it up. I'm like, no, dude, I'm telling you, I actually did this before the SEC did not to say I invented it, not looking for credit Ten programs, because it was at one point one of the five best jobs. It just was. I don't know that it is anymore. I'd actually probably pivot it back to you because you can have that blue blood tradition, which they certainly do. But I wonder if it's thought to be one of those five destination jobs that it was for so long. Well, it's just so

different than it was the era you're referring to. And by the way, Big East in the 80s, if I had to choose basketball, I think that's my favorite college basketball era for one conference ever. And it might be the best that we've ever seen, just empirically. although the I would take like I would take like mid-80s to mid-90s like the the one of my favorite moments ever is the UConn Georgetown Iverson Ray Allen showdown just like so I gotta I gotta still have that um but yeah maybe maybe it starts a little 83 84 or something like that Ewing and Mullen and those guys on the scene it's just you know and then when people go like who cares about realignment it happens all the time I'm just like you're fucking serious i'm still depressed about the big east i'm still depressed i i know it makes us you know what i i'm trying to put it together the idea is there and maybe

this is our first subject for for a uh yet to start podcast the old manning cast where we just where we just talk about the good old days all the time. Yeah, you know, Big Ten with Damon Bailey and those Indiana Hoosiers team, that iron five. I mean, they really ran six deep and that was it. And there was no one over 6'9 on that team. And every kid, just about by definition, stayed all four years. And that was an anomaly. The 93 year is the one is an indiana hoosier

basketball fan that vexes me and will forever because that final four i mean that entire season that is the height of the fab five that's the jamal mashburn uk team the year after they almost get to the final four without latner and then you still have Duke thriving with Laettner and Hurley and all those guys. And amidst that, the Indiana Hoosiers were still number one. And like I say, they had Calbert Chaney, who was as smooth a guy who, by the way, I always surprise. He lasted a dozen years in the NBA, but he never took off on the level I thought he might. Either way, them losing in the Final Four, or not, I'm sorry, that was the year after they lost in the Final Four to Duke. In 93,

Allen Henderson hurt his knee three weeks before the tournament. They'd been number one. They hammered the Fab Five at Assembly Hall that year. They destroyed a very good Big Ten that season. And then Alan Henderson hurt his knee and it all went under. And like I say, I remain vexed because I know they would have been able to take down Eric Montrose and company if they would have caught them in the Final Four. But yeah, that one bums me out. But the beauty of Indiana football is, to answer that question, is that you really don't when you're 20 years old and at the tailgate, you feel no motivation to go into the stadium. Maybe around the second quarter, like, yeah, let's just go check it out. You go in for 10 minutes.

You're like, yep, down 28, back to the tailgate and it's so lovely there since since you were there you know right next to the arena and the stadium are those rolling green hills with the streams and the lovely trees and everything why wouldn't you be out there having a beer instead of watching the the Hoosiers get whipped by the Wolverines Buckeyes or otherwise I'm afraid people are going to need to babble to translate some of this for us but when you brought up Bailey, all I can ever remember is that the story goes, Bob Knight, and it's been talked about for years, but probably not in the last 10. But Bobby Knight was so pissed at his guards that he told them there's this eighth grader

named Damon Bailey who was better than them right now. And I remember being a kid and going like, wait, do I suck at basketball? This is eighth grader who's better than everybody else on the, or at least the Hoosiers guards. And unfortunately for Damon Bailey, like that was the stat, that was what he was having to live up to

when he first shows up on campus, a quote that was four years old. That, it is weird because I remember I went to, it was so crazy. I got, I got drawn into it. I thought I loved basketball. I thought I loved sports until I got there. And people then would go on purpose. They'd be, you know, in college and they on purpose say, Hey, you want to go watch Damon Bailey? He's coming to Indiana next year. Like it's Friday night, man. What are, why are we going to go to a high school basketball game?

And then I found myself actually attending a day, but he never, he was the biggest guy on the floor. So, you know, he was in the low post. It was, you realized in his freshman year, like point guard, he's not, he's never been on the perimeter in his life. He's just, he's dominated the, the, uh, the farm boys for the last decade of his life. Yeah. It's funny, weird thing. We were in Indianapolis for the NFL draft about six, seven years ago, and we lined it up. Ike Taylor, Maurice Jones-Drew, and Pat McAfee and I went to play two-on-two in that old Butler gym, you know, the one from Hoosiers. Yeah, I did the same thing when I was in Indy.

The first time we went, Butler let us come in, and there was a rack of balls, and I looked at them and was like, I don't know what the okay here is, but they think I'm not shooting. And Stanford Stephen and I shot around for like a half an hour. Nobody gave a shit. I don't know if everybody's allowed to do that, but we, we, well, the best thing was we're there. You think quintessential Indiana basketball experience and literally completely randomly

Damon Bailey walked in and I had a bad back and who wanted me in there anyway. So I sat down and Damon Bailey jumped in and filled in for me in the basketball game. It was surreal. It was really bizarre. But, you know, I had my run in, to your point about Bob Knight. I loved him, thought it was super fun, funny, how he could literally grown-up referees,

how he could intimidate guys into making calls, all that stuff, his rules, and the success that came with it and everything. But I wrote him a letter in my senior year saying, hey, coach, I want to show you since you hate the media so much. I was a journalism student. I said, let me show you that that our school is producing a better generation of journalists. Can I come interview you after practice one day? And I called the next week, you know, just assumed it was a silly thing to do, to take my shot and called the office.

And the assistant who later became famous or infamous because she had a potted plant thrown at her against the wall, if you remember that, that was one of Coach Knight's great deeds was he threw a potted plant thrown at her against the wall, if you remember that. That was one of Coach Knight's great deeds was he threw a potted plant in the office. She answered the phone. She said, yeah, Coach Knight will see you on the floor on Wednesday after practice at blank time. And I was like, what?

Wait, he said, yes, I'm going to go in. I was just kind of kidding around. And so I went down there and another journalism guy with me had the camera on those old hi-8 tapes that you shoot on. And we propped up the camera. And again, surreal because we go to the office and she said, Coach Knight's going to meet you down on the floor. and they're wrapping up practice. And there's Calbert Chaney and all those guys shooting free throws to finish practice. And right in the middle of the floor, we set up right on the seal and coach night, six foot five, all of them. He looks like he looks half man, half Eagle with, with that gate coming towards us. And it,

and he comes over and we begin the interview and he didn't like my first question. I don't remember that was, he was miffed that there was a camera there. What's that doing here? So, well, you know, 20, late 20th century journalism, man, you know, we're, we're videotaping it as well. He didn't like that. He didn't like the first question. The second question I asked him, he said, tell you what, if you can get your shit together before tomorrow, we can come back and try this again. Otherwise, uh, that's it. He turned and then he came back and said, I'm going to need that tape too, knowing that he had just said all that on tape to a student. So he took it and it turned out from, we learned from one of the

student trainer guys that Coach Knight immediately went behind a closed door and broke the tape. And then I debated all night, Do I go back? No, Coach Knight is challenging me as a journalist to see what I'm made of. Do I have the medal? I went back the next day against my better judgment, asked him a bunch of softball questions. He liked those. And at the end of it, he said, now that's how you do it. By the way, here, I have something for you. And he gave me back the high tape that we went back and put in the machine. And of course, it didn't work because he had just broken it the day before. But it was the gesture that meant so much to me from Coach Knight.

Yeah, he was a bully. It's the bottom line of that story. Okay, so were you done with him after that? Yeah. Okay. That was the end of it. My two days with Coach Knight. One-on-one experience.

You think like, wouldn't it be fun? I mean, before we went in the car ride, literally, we were talking like, wouldn't it be funny if he yelled at us? Wouldn't it be fun? That'd be a great story if he got into us like he does at one of his press conferences or otherwise. And then, you know, 20 minutes later, it was actually happening and it wasn't as much fun. No, and again, if you're a student, like you could play it over again in your head or be the Carl, I should have done this,

I should have done that. You're not going to do shit. You're a student and it's Bob Knight and that's just the way the world works. But yeah, as I got older and started processing more of his stuff, I was like, this guy's a bully and he doesn't think enough

of anyone else's intelligence. You know, he doesn't have enough respect for somebody else that he doesn't know for of anyone else's intelligence. He doesn't have enough respect for somebody else that he doesn't know for us to supposedly believe his shit. Unfortunately, it was a bad end to what is an icon in that state. At one point, clearly the most important guy, well, I would say the most loved and most important is probably debatable with that.

I kind of think back, because I used to do the college game day stuff where this is, you know, I'm with ESPN. I'm on the air. But it felt like fucking student newspaper time when you roll in after Herbstreet and Fowler and Desmond and Corso. And you're like, can I have seven minutes with you, Bob Stoops? And it was funny because I had met up with a local media guy the night before in Norman, Oklahoma. I ended up having drinks with the guys that were on the Sooner staff

and they were like, what are you doing tomorrow? I was like, I'm actually a coach. I have coach. I have Stoops. I have Bob Stoops tomorrow. Then one of his coaches was like, what are you going to ask him? And I was like, well, you're defense, man. I was like, I don't know what's going on. I was like, well, I was going to ask, hey, you know, defensively, you've gone here, here, here. And then

the coach is like, well, he's not going to like that one. Like, and so he goes, you're going to ask him that? I And then the coach is like, well, he's not going to like that one. And so he goes, you're going to ask him that? I was like, yeah, whatever. Like, he's a football coach. Like, I can't ask about a declining defense. So we make it over to Stoops' office, and it's decked out, right? It is decked out. And for some reason, I had to kind of wait in his office.

I think his handler was like, hey, you can wait in the office. And so I'm just looking around and there's these glass cases of all of his watches from all the bowl games. Like going back, it was crazy. It was actually like, cool. Like it didn't feel like, what are you supposed to do with these things? Have them in your massive office on campus where you're a legend. So go ahead and do it. I didn't know that was a thing. Watches the standard prize i didn't know that no i well i i

don't know if it's just for the coaches or for the players but you go back be like oh look at that orange bowl iowa like going way back right and it was actually pretty cool it was like a mini little museum so he sits down he goes alpha position on me sits on the top of the front of his desk and i'm like ah shit i should have stood too late now too late now to mix it up and then you know some of the coaches are kind of looking at me and look at my arms being like what's this guy's fucking deal did he play somewhere is he just compensating for a year of athletics years of athletic failure and you're like yes it's the second one so i was like hey coach you know i noticed like trend wise whatever whatever like the defense is

going here and it's already it's he's totally pissed off he's already wasted a ton of time with the tv people but that is mandatory they're calling the game game day is in your city like that's the deal and you're gonna see him again so you got to be nice to those guys me he still can't understand why I'm there he doesn't i have a microphone and a little task cam thing in my hand and sometimes i'd have stan for steve with me sometimes i wouldn't and i start right in with like why is the defense bad which i don't know because at that point in my career i should have been better i was i've always kind of prided myself on the massage question but like hey look the one's coming like there's one coming but i'm gonna

i'm gonna start us off i'm gonna i'm gonna start us off i'm gonna try to disarm you here a little bit and i didn't even disarm yeah right right like hey man hey you see you hear that new brooks and dunn cd coach you know like try to get on his level and he just immediately like in his stoops was what you fail to realize ryan is that was and the thing is like bucking back on it i kind of get his point on defensive yards allowed per play versus some of the more traditional overall stuff that became really outdated especially with the pace that a lot of those big 12 schools started running with so actually to his point he was kind of right but like i just went there and it was fucking awful and he wasn't having it so then i didn't like him for a while and then stoops just decided to like be a great hang and

then everybody liked him and then we had him on again and i was like you've kind of i think he came in studio with us i'd been around now forever he'd seen me a few times and i was like i feel like you kind of were a combative guy all the time while all this and then you just decided to kind of rebrand yourself here at the end. And he started laughing. He's like, well, you know, it was almost him saying like, well, you know, I wasn't always an asshole, man. Like there's a part of me that people really like. And I thought it was a really good move for him because now people like Stoops in a way that I don't think they like him, especially the first half of his coaching career.

Knight was incapable, by the way, of doing any of these things. But back to you. Oh, yeah. No, yeah. Knight would never have that gear. But it is interesting. I think, talk about old Manning cast topics. I think people don't...

John Madden becoming the most beloved figure in broadcasting is wild. If you were to lose it at all, when he was the head coach of the Oakland Raiders, I don't know. I watched the whole documentary and now I can't remember who it was, who cherry picked John Madden of all people. And, and,

and his quick rise in the ranks to the top booth with Summerall is weird because he was, you know, he was at least half the country hated him. He was the head coach of the Oakland Raiders and he wasn't, I'm not saying he was bereft of charisma, but that wasn't something he was going. It wasn't John McKay, like the Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach, cracking wise, or even Andy Reid. You had no knowledge that that was

something he was capable of doing, right? I mean, I guess he did the Miller Lite ad. Maybe. I can't even remember the timing of that. But it is funny that those guys kind of realized, I guess it's a gear thing. If the premise is when you go to work every day is coaching these student athletes 18 to 21. I guess you become domineering by definition and you assume that that works as you go through life, that you could become on cruise control and your default setting is being a jerk or being a bully to everybody.

So that is a funny tale that he kind of reversed course like that no but this is like something bigger here too is that i i'll try to explain like especially in the college communities like what's ever going to be bigger than bob stoops in that surrounding area nothing okay what's bigger than K in Durham? Nothing. And then the other side, even though Chapel Hill is not that far away, but to be this God-like almost status in these smaller communities and to be there that long,

I think it can fuck you up a little bit. It's almost impossible to not have a bit of a God complex about yourself because again, there's a million people too in your everyday that are talking about the thing that's super important to them that you're in charge of and they never know what the hell they're talking about. So then you become desensitized to even think you can have a normal conversation with anybody because everybody's just like saying shit. You're just like, no, it's my Mel Kiper at the produce section analogy where the amount of times people come up to Mel to tell him about a draft pick well how

many people have ever said something that he would be like oh that's really interesting is it less than one percent might be high right so time that so true times that by a million if you're a coach in these communities that they can come off it's like what's wrong with this guy especially when you're on the outside of it right like rick Pitino had a pretty significant scandal go on. And then he had the balls to blame all of us for having interest in it. Okay. And one of those press conferences, he's like, and by the way, and you're like, you're going to fucking end by the way us like, yeah, you screwed up. Everybody screws up, but like you screwed up and you're pissed. This is ESPN, man. Like, yeah, it's a national story. This isn't just your city.

This isn't just your community. This is everybody paying attention to it. And this is the price that you have to pay when you're that big of a public figure. And sometimes there's this like weird transitional thing where it's like I get to dominate my backyard and nobody calls me out on anything. Oh, but now people outside of here, how come they're not following the rules? How come they're not following the rules that I'm so used to because I'm so beloved or I'm just so important?

And I've always thought that college icon figure at times has to be reminded and be like, yeah, you're that there, but outside of there, the rules are completely different. Listen, you've been in LA.A. for a while now. Surely you've picked up on that. The insulation from, you know, what 99.9% of the people out there experience just becomes very.

I mean, what you're talking about is at the highest level, small town, you walk the streets. Obviously nobody is telling you I disagreed with the, with the choice you made in the final two minutes. All you get are backslaps. You are a God everywhere you go. Of course, it's jarring when anybody disagrees with you. That's the nature of celebrity. People always wonder about that. Why is that guy seem so crazy and and and he seems like he lives in a different reality yeah he does that's exactly right the people fall away who criticize you and all you have are people around you who generally agree with you and slap you on the back and you're making a fortune and everything else i in fact i don't think i

would um specific to that i i'd be hard pressed like I get the competitive spirit and that's what drives guys to back to where we started to get you know um wanting to compete you know watch the highest level compete at the highest level and all that man as a vain guy I would love that college life I'd love that I'd love to be the unquestioned kingpin of Bloomington Indiana or anywhere else, any other great college town for the next 30 years. Sign me up for that over dealing with an NFL fan base and media and questioning everything I do every week with the fear of getting fired. You win enough. If you get to a place where you can win, especially a place like

Indiana or Purdue, a second tier, big 10 kind of school or SEC obviously has its versions of those too. You can settle in real nice for the next three, four decades of a splendid existence. It's the same thing as if I were a player, if I were 16 years old and I were a blue chipper and USC and Alabama were recruiting me, I'd go to like Oregon State so I could be the legend. I'd rather be Archie Manning and be the king of Ole Miss forever than I would be another and then be a quarterback from the U. Like, oh yeah, is he as good as Vinny Testaverde or Jim Kelly or Steve Walsh? Like, I don't want to be added

to the list of other names. I want to be one of one. That's what Archie Manning figured out. I love that. Well, maybe if you go back to Bloomington, you guys can do a live

episode of Don't Call It A Comeback because Dave is back on campus. Oh, what a thrill. He's coaching journalism. I feel for everybody. Thanks a lot for doing this, man. I really appreciate it.

Let's catch up again. Hey, sure thing. Great to finally catch up. Hopefully we can do a home and home. At some point, you can jump on with us. Did Sean Payton tell you where he's going next year, though? He did. He did?

Great, great, great. He's going to team up with Tom Brady in Arizona? What? Is that what he told you? You'll tell me offline? I would say Cliff and Kyle are pretty expensive to make that happen combined. Yeah. Okay.

All right. We'll work it out. You'll tell me what he said after the fact, or I'll just listen to it. That is Dave Damaschek. Again, don't call it a comeback podcast. Wondery with Ryan Shazier. Say hi to Shazier for me, alright? Will do. Thanks, man.

You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Today's Life Advice

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What is up to Kyle? What's up, man? How's it? All right. Great, great. Okay, we do have a follow-up on the market price dinner parties. We discussed, we examined many, many angles to this,

and the guy that wrote the initial email said he wanted to follow up with some of the information that we were trying to figure out. I think this will bring closure to everyone that's still worried about it, which is probably a low number. But let's do it anyway because I appreciate the effort. A follow-up to add some more context. We're all in our late 20s. Certainly no one is rich, but we all have steady jobs and do fine. These dinners occur,

I'd say, around three times a year. There you go. That's it. The guys in the wrong then. You do it three times a year, you can't be charging for dinner. You want more context? once for his birthday usually maybe around thanksgiving christmas another random one throughout the year thankfully i do have

confirmation that the rest of the friend group does think this is also insane usually with a post interface time with those in attendance the next morning. We'll usually make offhand jokes about it in front of him. All right, good. He's like, if they were paying attention, they'd get the joke. The dinner guy is incredibly stingy and pretty much the definition of a mooch. For example, a member of the group lives in the South and is flying home for the holidays. Jeff texted. Oh, that's right.

We call them Jeff. We already did the other one. Jeff texted that guy and asked if he was checking a bag when he was flying home so the member could bring home bottles of wine in his checked bag from a boutique wine store in the South despite Jeff just being there himself less than two months ago. All right. So the guy's cheap. He has three parties a year.

He doesn't care about it. He doesn't care about it. The jokes are made in front of him. He's fine. It doesn't matter. He did add the email that said, Kyle's suggestion of getting the other guy's gift cards at Jeff Dinners is absolutely incredible

and will be featured in my groomsman gifts for my future wedding. Oh, shit. That's perfect. Amazing. Changing lives, Kyle. Changing lives. All right.

Okay. This is, I guess there's a part after that's just a thank you, so we won't read that. Okay, what's up? My name's Scott. 43, 6'4", 215. Just getting close to that don't fuck with range. Needs to add some weight.

I've been in the gym since I was 24. Uh-oh, now he's going to hear us saying he needed to add weight. He's been in the gym for two decades. Guys, I'm going to start ordering some supplements today. All right. It's all about reps at this point, but I'm still built like a Greek god. You know what?

Fuck all of us. He's built like a Greek god. Good for you. Yep. You're the man. When me and my guys get a few sodas down, the great debate comes up. I love the term sodas. All right.

Is there a cutoff time when you have to get rid of old photos of your ex? I'm not talking in frames around my place. I have them in a box in a closet. Quick backstory. I moved to this guy just lets it fly and he said he doesn't care. So about anybody knowing anything. It's not like super aggressive or anything. I think it's

a pretty common problem. Greek God confidence. Yeah, right. I moved to Columbus, Greek guide confidence. Yeah, right. You didn't get far. I moved to Columbus, Ohio when I was 30 and bought into a bar on campus. I got a low buy-in, but had to run the place.

Being the type of guy who knows how to have a good time and may have overdid it at times. There was a 10-year plan in place. The first eight, 10 years I knew would not be as much as I would like coming in. With that being said,

I started dating, I guess we'll call her Kay, when I was 31. The whole time we were together, I was pretty much broke. The girl was amazing. To be blunt, I was not. This sounds familiar. She put up with me for eight years, eight years being with a guy I didn't know how to treat her who was out damn near every night until 4am and sucked

in a bunch of I sucked in a bunch of other ways alright so you cheated on her after she left for good I was shook aren't we all like hey I've been a fucking horrible like as far as the relationship the grades

I'm getting a lower one than you. All right. So they all leave us. I schedule time with a few life coaches to learn how to treat a woman. What? I think this is all just terminology. He's talking about being in therapy. Sodas, Greek God, life coaches. I would just keep rolling with it. I don't know if we got another fake alert here. I damn near quit drinking and now have six successful businesses. While learning how to be an adult, she met a billy goat that a wizard turned into a man and moved to Nashville. He just looks like a human billy goat and no, I'm not bitter at all.

Oh, so the guy looked like a billy goat. I got what he said immediately. What time did he send this? Oh, middle of the day. All right. If it had said 3.30 a.m., I would be like, okay. We've been broken up for four years now. In a brief history of the relationship, you may be able to tell she still means the world to me.

That's why I'd want to keep the pictures. My friends, on the other hand, keep saying a new relationship will never work as long as I have the pics. Guys, give us your decision. If you vote to get rid of them uh the boys want to have a bonfire he said i don't care if you use names too late now you know what we haven't heard from kyle a lot so far i'm just kind of rambling why don't you go first well this is sort of a one of those things where i may may sound like a bad guy here but it's sort of one of those karmic tricks that i was thinking of maybe you could just back them all up to the gmail and come up to the 21st century and then you could burn the pictures and then you know that i mean we're basically doing this again if you'd be like all right now i have to delete the stuff from the

gmail but um that's just a that's just what people are doing nowadays buddy this is like the shoebox in the closet is way, way too easy to be found by somebody you don't want. So if you did want to go that route, I would just say back them up to the old Gmail and come on into the 21st century. I don't think we're talking nudes here necessarily, though. I think that's what you're hinting at.

I don't know that it's that. Well, listen, I know obviously those have a place in a Gmail as well. obviously those have a place in a Gmail as well. It does have a place in a Gmail as well. I'm just saying if you don't want to have this physical shoebox around, maybe just that will help. But probably the only thing that's going to help is you meeting somebody else. Otherwise, she's just going to be the gold medalist in your brain

until there's somebody else. So, I mean, I don't think it matters what the fuck you do with these pictures really um but if you if you did want to you know get them out of your sight i i wouldn't i wouldn't think that's a a bad step yeah i don't i don't know i don't think there's a definitive answer on this one it's really up to you like are you sitting around like do you get hammered and then fucking well it sounds like it doesn't drink that much anymore but do you still have like a night where you like go to the shoebox and start sifting through them you get all fucking bummed out like nobody nobody does that and then goes man that was fun it's like i did that okay yeah you know i guess the updated version of this

granted this guy's in his 40s so some of the younger listeners are like what the fuck are you guys talking about you actually have like physical pictures of each other on dates and dinners and vacations and stuff and then you you keep it around and be like yeah it's just like all those photos that you take that you never look at again yeah yeah people people have them have physical ones us old timers uh i don't um i didn't i never chucked anything. Like, I didn't, you know, I just was like, whatever. When I moved, it was packed. It was in an envelope.

I guess I just felt weird throwing it all away. I can understand if this is still lingering, right? If it's still this lingering thing and you haven't been able to get past it, then maybe you need this dramatic act of a bonfire to feel like it's this physical thing this dramatic act of a bonfire to feel like it's this physical thing and it's gone forever here's what i would say all right is your friend saying it'll never work out for you because these pictures are still at your place that seems inaccurate yeah like it's a curse or something right yeah exactly but again i'm at like how often are you going to them if they're just there and you're not looking at them,

then it doesn't really fucking matter. Once I had broken up with somebody and we had all these pictures, it went into an envelope. The first time I did it, I was like, this sucks. And then I didn't really ever look at them again. And now it means nothing to me. If they were missing, I'd be like, whatever. And if the next time I move and I find them, I may open them and sit, but it's not.

There's no part. Whatever you've had to deal with and process to move on emotionally from it all has already fucking happened. Now, maybe there are other people that would feel like the picture is existing. Maybe you're checking them out more than you should. Maybe that's why your friends are saying, get rid of them. So ultimately, my answer on this one is that, yeah, maybe, but it's really more about you. I don't think this is a rule for everybody type of thing. You're going to have to just get to a point where you, not to get deep here, but it sounds like you've already forgiven yourself for how bad you've treated her.

That's the other thing, too. When you're the fuck up in the relationship, it actually becomes easier to go, yeah, I don't really deserve that person. And that wasn't great. So really no one else to blame. It's actually way harder the other way around when you're like, what the fuck? I was awesome. I did everything right.

I was so nice, you know, and it's like, and I still got burned. So trust me, it's far easier, I think, eventually. And everybody's different. Some people get over it immediately, which I think is a little weird. Uh, some people have it last way too long, which is also probably weird. Uh, the only thing you really can do is find, you know, whether or not the next person is the, the, the, the love of your life. Just, it just has to be a next person. You know, it has to be a next person and it's not using somebody. It's, it's basically starting the process of this stuff.

So I don't know. I feel like this to apply some rule to everybody's like, Hey, having these pictures, I think having them and never, yeah, never looking at them. It doesn't,

it's like the same thing. It's not having them, but if you're looking at them all the time, that's a little different. And again, to update it all, it's kind of like when you go through the breakup and then you just Google the other person incessantly,

like seeing if there's new stuff out there, like what the fuck, who's that? Or what's going on there? Like, why are they in Florida? Yeah, I would say a shoebox is better at that point. Yeah, right. There's no tracking going on. Good old school.

And you're not crazy for having a one that got away. It's just about how you're handling it, which could make you weird. But it sounds like you're doing all right, pal. Yeah, this guy's got six businesses and apps.

Greek God? Come on. Yeah. This is fucked. And if you're in Columbus, which you've already said you are, and you look that good, should be a layup, dude.

All right. Okay. 25 years old. 225 all right we're really in that that lane today kyle physically arguably the worst post moves you've ever seen then don't post up trying to post up when you don't know how to post up never looks good all right i've recently started shooting around after lifts at my gym think equinox but in the south all right there's a guy who's been in there around the same time he brings in cones and ladders and all kind of shit to run drills with he's probably mid-30s not much taller than me keep in mind this is full court so he basically tries to claim one half all on his own oh jesus yeah now we had this in connecticut once crazy i'm a morning lift guide it gets pretty busy around the time i go in it's Tries to claim one half all on his own. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. Now, we had this in Connecticut once.

I'm a morning lift guy. It gets pretty busy around the time I go in. It's usually just me, but sometimes there's another guy or two shooting at the same hoop at the other end because this guy's running a mock training camp on the other side. Now, for context, this is my first time getting back into hooping since runs at my fraternity house, court back to college. Oh, so since he left college, what, two, three years ago or three, four years ago? Depending. Did you stay back?

Irrelevant. So you could say there's some loose balls that wrote down on his side. Today, he aggressively throws the ball back my way and goes, come on, I'm working. No, wait, wait. It's better. Come on, man. I'm working. And I responded on.

Great response. Again, 62 to 25. You get away with this. Working on what? The big three? It's a public gym. Shit like this is going to happen. This isn't the first time he's reacted like this.

Am I the asshole? What's the proper gym etiquette here? Thanks to Kyle Cerruti. Go magic. You're on the right. You're totally on the right. There's always another place in the gym you can find to do the latter shit. You don't have to do it on a basketball court. There's always another place in the gym you can find to do the ladder shit.

You don't have to do it on a basketball court. It's fucking bullshit. And again, I get mad back when people would hit volleyballs at one end and just kind of practice. That's not what this is for. There's hoops at both ends.

I'm glad you said something. Working on what the big three is an all-timer. I like that the ice has already been broken here. The next time you see him, he's going to know you. I think what you do is when numbers start showing up gradually,

you start shooting around. You start shooting around at his end and he's going to find another spot real quick. I am... I don't know if fascinate is the right word. I guess I'll put it this way. There's a couple different gym scenarios that I've seen at my gym where the person will just set up this obstacle course of shit. or the person, like there was one guy who had the dangling ball off of the forehead attachment that he could work on his jabs and stuff. And, you know, with his footwork, he's all over this fucking kettlebell area, like all over the place. And, you know, there's another guy that like,

oh, by the way, I was hitting a bag the other day, trying to break out the old movie tie kicks from teenage years. There was a guy next to me. I bag the other day, trying to break out the old movie tie kicks from teenage years. There was a guy next to me. I've noticed this, too, when you're hitting the bag. I think if another guy's okay, and I'm terrible, but if it's two guys who look like they may have taken a lesson at some point, they kind of size each other up. Because if you were interested in training yourself in any version of fighting, then you kind of just always look at what the other guy's doing. There was a, I don't know i might have been korean or something he had fucking legs like tree trunks and he was doing these kicks and he would like delay the kick part of it and they were just tree choppers and i was like make sure you don't look

at him because he's he's already won he's already alpha'd you in this room so don't don't look at his stuff or anything there was a guy in there the other day that was watching me and he was watching me and then he started getting like more ramped up watching me which tends to happen and he started like going through this routine and clearly he had taken stuff for most of his life he's pretty looked like a pretty skilled guy but then he started like finishing with headbutts and shit and i was like all right dude like we get it my point is is there's this exhibitionist thing that'll happen at certain gyms to certain people where you're like you can't do all of these things and take up all this room and not expect

that other people aren't gonna be fucking over it really quick it's just that most of us never really say anything like i'll still have things at the gym where i'm just like i don't know whatever i don't feel like fucking arguing with somebody about it it's not like i don't know that i've ever i've told a couple people like, are you serious? And you're done? Really? And then that'll be about it. And then it doesn't really go anywhere, which is fine because none of us really want it to go anywhere. But he's

wrong. Like he, you can't take up half of a basketball court by doing this stuff. If you really want to work on fucking ladders, like again, I feel like no offense to the dudes doing the ladder work and getting in there and keeping that foot speed at a certain level we respect all of that but i always feel like there's a part of this where you want people to see you doing it

right i feel like they oh you're doing this because you want people to see it and when you're in the way you can't get mad when the other people that are doing the normal shit that need that area, that are there for the stuff they actually signed up for, their membership is not a ticket to your fucking combine. So I'll always side with you on that. And I don't know. He's probably going to be kind of defiant about it, and you feel like a bitch because you're going to get a tell on him.

But there's usually always another spot. There's always another little spot where you could probably figure out a way to go do your ladder stuff without taking up an entire hoop. It's fun. It is a little bit fun as long as it's not like, well, this guy's going to try to fight me whenever he sees me because that's not what's going to happen. It's just fun that you've got this little thing and you're on the clear right side of it. And there's like a bad, it's almost like one of those old cartoons where it's like, this is the bad guy who's going to come in every once in a while and ruin the other half of the basketball court. And God forbid, if anything ever did happen and the gym staff had to get called in, i'm not saying it will we're all adults here generally but you like they would be like hey this guy who's like just claiming like we're that's not okay there's some there's something in our rule book that says you can't

do that so like you're you're right i think it's it's it adds a little spice to life that there's you have like a you have like an arch nemesis at the gym that's like and it's not like who's who's gonna sit on you know it's like you can't use the barbell area it's just like when you go to the basketball court this guy is sometimes there at it doing you know fun stuff that's like even kind of funny you know when there's people playing like a like a real game of basketball like that looks way cooler than the guy who's like doing the shuttle drill like i just i don't know i think you come out on top and all this i'm glad that you said something to him like you said uh we've already broken the ice like you said about like you know are we even going to look at each other now like the guys are going to be staring daggers at you

and you could you could decide how you want to handle that because i just think it's fun um i'm glad that you've got like a beef that doesn't really matter um sounds like it sounds like sounds like kyle here misses having a vendetta yeah i really yeah i mean it's about time maybe for another one i don't know um who would be i'm not i'm not gonna push it yeah i mean you if you were looking for one where do you think you would go it's got to be somewhere like so like on my regular route like maybe like the trader joes that i come to you know uh when i when i'm leaving frolic perhaps that um i would i mean i mean fuck could be i used to have one at Darkroom. Frolic Room, nothing's popped up,

and I don't want to bring that energy into the Frolic Room. But it's got to be one of those places, sort of like a place that I'm going to everywhere. No nemesis, no vendettas with anyone at the Frolic Room other than the scammer, but he didn't really get used. No, no. Actually, he's probably mad at me because everybody knows who he is now. So yeah, I don't know i mean everything's been pretty pretty nice and and easy lately but you

know i'm not going to count it out i'll keep my eyes open yeah trying to think sometimes a vendetta can be cool i know people think it's all a waste of time and waste energy which is probably fair but uh yeah in a weird way like i'd be looking forward to this guy the next time through and since you already said something that's rather insulting yeah like it's you've already jumped the hard part's over dude yeah the hard part is oh you did break the ice uh but i'd also add like anyone i've ever seen doing ladder work those are very confident people right they are they are the defensive backs of our society and there's usually a little hesitation of fucking with those guys but i can't but help

every time i see it happening i'll be like are you doing this because you're actually doing it or are you doing it because you want everyone to see you doing it now i know some people say well that's why he went to the gym so he's away from everybody else and whatever. It's just like, look, you can't. Basketball courts still aren't respected enough. They just aren't throughout

our entire country. It's probably a, I don't know if Biden's ever going to address it. It's probably not the most important thing, but I just feel like basketball courts throughout my lifetime

would be like, that's not what this is for, man. That's what this court is here for. Like you want to have it be indoor soccer. It says indoor soccer, seven to nine. I understand that. I'll come back before seven or I'll come back right after nine.

But when it's basketball time, it's basketball time. Another great shirt. Another great shirt. Okay, that'll do it for us today on the podcast. Thanks to Kyle, as always. Today's Life Advice was presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited. Earn big time with Chase Freedom Unlimited.

Earn 5% on travel purchase through Chase, 3% on dining, including takeout, 3% at drugstores, and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? Chase, make more of what's yours. Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. I'll do that top five thing on Friday because I think it's top six. I was working out in my head. Shout out to Ricky, my guy sitting next to me, Lakers fan.

Great guy. Sorry about the loss. And I think that'll do it for us. Rhymer's Little Podcast. Springer. Spotify. Thank you.