The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Seth Wickersham on the NFL's Balance of Power. Plus, Life Advice With a Fitness Model (Male).

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the Russell Wilson trade rumors heating up (1:30) before talking with ESPN’s Seth Wickersham about NFLPA executive director DeMaurice Smith, negotiating for a 17-game season, maintaining a balance of power in the league, and much more (9:00). Then, Ryen is joined by executive VP of BPI Sports Whitney Reid to answer some listener-submitted fitness Life Advice questions (43:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

what's up it's the ryan rossola podcast we have seth wickersham incredible piece he and don van nada on demora smith and the struggle to be the executive director of the nflpa and a life advice all fitness-based, with a buddy named Whitney Reed, who's going to join us in a little on Russell Wilson at the top. I'm going to be quick here because we have a lot, especially with the life advice going a little longer in the back end, and then Wickersham's going to join us.

So this Russell Wilson news, that follows up some of the stuff that we were saying here on the podcast the last couple of weeks, but Mike Sandu, we've had on a bunch, and he and a couple other reporters from from the athletic are all over this, this Russell Wilson story. And this is all incredibly predictable. And I'm telling you just to gear up for the rest of this. Okay.

Because Russell Wilson wants out of CF. It's, it's very clear. There's stuff I've shared. And I, I've haven't shared at all. Cause there's just stuff that I kind of can't. And again,

I'm not a reporter. You guys either trust me. you don't trust me. You know me well enough, I think, over the years that I'm not going to say any of this shit unless I actually have a little bit of a read on stuff. And again, it doesn't mean that you're right. And it doesn't mean that he's actually going to be in another uniform. But he wants out. I think his wife wants out.

All right. And this piece from The Athletic is incredible because Russell Wilson isn't going to go nuclear option on you. I think this is his version of the nuclear option, which is why when he went on with Dan Patrick and we played you that audio and I said, normally anyone talking like this is not a big deal. For Russell Wilson, it is a very big deal. This is very calculated. This is all part of the plan. The quotes in this piece are part of the plan. He is looking at flights one way. All right?

That's what I mean here. So that's why I thought it was so revealing that he was saying anything, and it was backing up stuff that I had heard, that big picture, longer, he's going to want to move on. Does he get hit too much? Yes. Are the hits sometimes his fault more so than other quarterbacks? Yes.

Do I sit here on this podcast telling you even though i don't love his interviews that i love him as a quarterback yes he is terrific he probably doesn't get enough criticism because i think most people are so enamored with his talent so you know again that whole hey you're not criticizing him enough so what should i do should i criticize him more than zero percent sure should i criticize him 50 of the time i don't know their defense has kind of fallen apart. They never really run the football that well. There've been times where I couldn't believe the collection of receivers he's had, but he's had much better receivers recently. You know, Metcalf, Lockett's terrific. I mean, there've been more depth. There's been years that they've had a little bit more depth there, but some of the stuff is really, as I read it, I'm like, man, this source is crafting a narrative, my favorite word, where Russell Wilson is texting his quarterback coach, which clearly the quarterback coach and his friend had to be part of the article source where he was, Wilson seethed watching Mahomes

and Brady play in the Super Bowl. But that makes Wilson look better because it means that Wilson only cares about one thing and only cares about winning, which I actually believe with Wilson. But he wants you to know that he's only a guy that's consumed by it and he's mad. Well, you're mad at who? How mad are you?

Or do you want us to know that you're mad? It's kind of like when somebody tweets at the end of the year how many books they've read. Who's that for? Think about that. There's a few guys, a couple of friends. I don't know that I've ever said anything to them. And it's great when you're like, hey, read a book, check out this book because you like the book. I do that all the time. I like to reference books that I've read because I like to read. But if you're going to tweet out, hey, read these books and took a picture of 24 books that I've read because I like to read. But if you're going to tweet out, hey, read these books and took a picture of 24 books that you read this year,

who's that tweet really for? Is that really for the audience? Or is that for you? Or is that for people to think of you a certain way? So when Russell Wilson is seething watching Mahomes and Brady play in the Super Bowl, us learning about that tells us what? It tells me that Russell Wilson wants us to all know how competitive he is and how upset he was. And it was uncomfortable for him to sit there. And I'm sure as a competitor, there are moments that it was that. But I think he's so crafted in all of these different things that I'll be like, wait a minute, what does that really mean?

Then there's another piece in the story where he was insulted by the idea that the Seahawks would send people to watch Josh Allen's workout in Wyoming. If you kept track of every team that watched workouts or visited guys or in the NBA, when people bring guys in and I'll be like, why did you bring him in? He's not even in your draft range. You have this other player there and the teams will say, you know, there's a lot of stuff that goes on with workouts that you don't really get. Like there's times we're doing as a favor to the agent. We're doing it as something where we're trying to figure out in four years, we want to get more information where if this guy's up in four years or the team doesn't pick up his rookie option in the NBA and

the salary structure there, that we'll then be able to look at the player, you know, years from now and have more information because we did bring him in for a workout. We did get some face time with him. So we're just collecting as much information as we possibly can with all of these moving parts. So maybe there's a version of Josh Allen that the Seahawks go, hey, let's go check this guy out because we think he's completely wild and raw. And maybe he doesn't even make it through this, whoever drafts him because you don't know where he's going.

But we'll be armed with more information because we like some stuff on tape, but let's go check it out. To then turn that into some betrayal is basically immature with what the job is. So when you are preparing yourself for all of the Russell Wilson stuff, I'm telling you straight up, this is going to get so entertaining because there's going to be all of these voices. Because I think Russ is going to use people like everyone does, by the way, to get his message out there. The team will use people to get their message out there. The team, I people to get their message out there. The team, I think, is saying, hey, look, that cap hit to go ahead and move a Russell Wilson.

It's what is the high 30 millions? We're not doing that. We're not. I'm telling you right now, the NFL, the idea, the philosophies on this have changed and they've changed fast. You know, people would have said the same thing about Carson Wentz. You can't do that. You can't do that kind of deal.

It doesn't make any sense. Look at that dead cap hit. All right, get him out of here. You know, look, the Seahawks don't want to trade Russell Wilson, not because of the dead cap hit. They don't want to trade him because he's Russell Wilson, because he's awesome. But if he is determined to move on, he is going to move on

because now the quarterbacks in the NFL are the NBA stars. We don't know it yet, but it is happening, and it's going to happen way more in the future because this is the beginning. This is the 2010. You know what? Hell, LeBron James should never even be referenced as doing anything wrong at all. The guy left in free agency, but the Mellows, the Westbrooks, the Hardens this year, we are now approaching a time in the NFL where we will see the quarterback evolve into the NBA star calling his shot.

I'm just telling you to prepare yourself for it. All right, that's it. But with Wilson, it's going to be really interesting because he is always going to be worried about, he's going to be trying to do it in the nicest way possible. Go Hawks. Seth Wickersham joins us, a reporter for ESPN. Don Van Notta and Seth wrote an incredible piece. I mean, just had hours and hours of reporting on executive director Demora Smith, who is head of the NFLPA, has had that job for a while and how we got to a vote for the CBA that barely passed last year.

And I think the quote that jumps out to me, which I think I want to examine all angles of this, is a quote that says, if we could, says a longtime NFL owner, every owner would build a statue to D, meaning to Morris, outside of their stadiums. That's how good he's been for our business. And if you're a player, you hear that and you are furious. Let's discuss how accurate that really is. So Seth, let's go back before we go to where we're at now. DeMorris comes in as a lawyer.

He hadn't had any involvement in sports. He thought of as an outsider at that point, replacing Gene Upshaw, who passed. How did he get the job? And how did all of this DeMorris-Smith, how did the DeMorris-Smith story start? And, you know, how did all of this Demorris Smith, how did the Demorris Smith story start? Yeah, thanks, buddy. So, you know, Demorris was, you know, again, a lawyer, he had some connections, he'd worked in the Department of Justice, he had connections to, you know,

Barack Obama, Eric Holder, he was recruited by a search firm, and then decided to, you know, throw his hat in the ring and really try to go get this. And so in Hawaii in 2009, he dazzled everybody with his, you know, his background as a lawyer. He kind of played to his strengths. And, you know, this election was incredibly important, not just because, you know, Gene Upshaw had just died. And, you know, he was the longtime executive director of the union and revered and had done a good job in negotiations. It was because in 2011, the CBA was up again. The owners were going to opt out of the current one and try to renegotiate early. And so it was a big, big deal who the union elected as its leader.

Dee ends up getting it. And, you know, then he goes into this 2011 CBA and it was really tough. I mean, one of the things he told us was that, you know, he was going against Roger Goodell, a league lifer who had been there for a long time. And he said flat out, we weren't equals. And, you know, I thought that was one of the moments in the story that I really thought was revealing. Yeah, that CBA for people to remember, I mean, there's a backstory to the 2011 one because

Paul Tagliabue pushed through the one, what was it, 2006? Yes. And I remember owners leaving that going, what did we just agree to? This is ridiculous. There was this thought that Tagliabue would never be in the Hall of Fame because the owners would make sure that it would never happen, that they were that mad. And it's actually pretty incredible when you think about a group of billionaires. And maybe at that time, on paper, this just wasn't what it was with the growth, the valuations of franchises. But why would you all decide to do that? It was essentially like the theme was that Tagliabue wanted this finally to push this

through as he was going to be leaving and getting kind of like a moment for him. And you're like, well, why would you agree to it? Because now to think that the owner player cut was 57% player seems unfathomable. Like you wouldn't believe it if someone told you that. And that's what it was. unfathomable. You wouldn't believe it if someone told you that. And that's what it was. And that's why in 2011, you're like, okay, well, the players are going to lose. It's just a matter of how much they lose, which is basically the way you could summarize almost any CBA with players and ownerships in the major sports. And so that 57% cut out of the 2011 deal is what, like 47, 48?

I know there's some accounting that says it's actually about 50%, but that's a massive, massive percentage cut in some negotiation where it felt like a lot of the players' priorities were safety, which is no one's going to argue against safety, but the owners weren't going to argue against safety. Less practice time, time and pads. So when I was looking at it, I'm like, why would they give up that big of a chunk for some of these other things that the owners are going to be like, look, these are easy fixes. Fine. You don't want to be at work as much. Fine. We're now at 57 on the cut or excuse me, not 57. Um, you guys are way off of 57. I remember talking to Dominic Foxworth who ended up being the

NFL PA president. And he was involved in those negotiations, which were really nasty, which they all are. And I was like, man, you guys got crushed. And we weren't friends then. We're friends now. And he lit into me and he was right. But he was essentially saying, yeah, we lost, but you don't get it. You don't understand how tough the position is for the players when you start factoring in some of the math that we're going to get to here. Absolutely. And, you know, before that CBA, and I'll just, I'm going to, I'm going to read from the story just so I get it right. But, you know, DeMora Smith, and I'll just, I'm going to, I'm going to read from the story just so I get it right. But, you know, DeMora Smith had just been elected. One of his first days at work, he opens the desk drawer in his new Washington, D.C. office, and he finds this handwritten speech,

and it's from Gene Upshaw. And Smith read it. It was written over two columns in black ink. And one line stood out to him as both wise and inspirational and as a warning. And I'm reading here, it says, owners will always take a short-term loss for a long-term gain. Upshaw's words were both a nod to the strength of the enemy and a clarifier of Smith's mission. His job was not only to notch wins at the negotiating table, it was to ensure that the league didn't break the union. And, you know, as he said in the story, the guys on the other side of the table are killers and they were absolutely trying to break the union.

And so what a win is for DeMorris Smith, both in 2011 and even in 2020, is kind of interesting. And it's because how do you define what a win is knowing that the Morris kind of has this impossible job with a constituency that's hard to get on the same page. And meanwhile, the owners management are in lockstep. I mean, remember in that 2011 CBA, one of the negotiators told us this was a referendum on who could fuck the players worse, and they meant it. How nasty was some of that stuff? I mean, it was unbelievable. Right before they locked out in March, the owners presented a deal to the players, but right before the management locked out the players in March of that year, They presented a final proposal to the players and the players just rejected it.

And that proposal, owners felt they were giving away too much. Like not all of them were happy with that, but they were trying to give the players something to avoid a lockout. And right after the players rejected that, Jerry Jones leaves the negotiating room and he goes and meets with a handful of owners and league executives.

And they were like, what happened there? Can you tell us? And Jerry Jones says, again, I have to read this because otherwise it's so weird you wouldn't believe it. He says, look, my daddy grew up on a farm in southwest Missouri. Every so often the wind would come from a different part of the country and the moon would set a different way and the owls would start fucking the chickens. Now, nobody knew what he was talking about with this story.

And Jerry says, the owls are fucking the chickens. It makes no sense that they turned this down, but it's a great thing for us. And it was true because that deal was roughly a billion dollars better for the players than the one that they agreed to

in July of that year. And I cannot state this enough. So get in where you want here, but you have to understand the math. You have to understand the priority of now when you're a player. When there are 2,500 players that get to vote on this with short careers in the NFL. And I've been criticized in the past for saying, I think people can act really selfishly. And you may not even think you're selfish. You may be the most selfless person. You may do all sorts of incredible things. But in the moment, when you're thinking of how's my check coming in every two weeks, am I putting food on the table? Am I going to be able to provide for a family? If you're the players in this, I don't really ever blame the players for going,

look, whatever the deal is now, we have to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves because we're the ones playing. And it also speaks to something that happened much later on with COVID where there was a cap smoothing where they're like, well, we don't want to take all the hits now because we're the players that are playing right now. And so when you add up 2,500 players and even talk about some of these percentage splits on revenue where it's, hey, well, can we get 50? Can we get 51? The way Foxworth mapped it out, and this is very simple math. If you take 2,500 guys getting checks and you tell them, this is what your check is 50% and this is what your check is at 51%, it's not that big of a difference.

And so long term, you're not thinking about the next generation of players. You can say you are. You can say you want to decide on all these things the next generation. But it's like arguing about the future of a city between people vacationing and people that own homes there. And that's the owners are the people that own the homes that are never leaving that town. And as you said, it's just who wants to fuck the players the worst.

I think the only thing really preventing the owners from really sticking it to the players and seeing how long they could last with a work stoppage of a year would strictly be PR for the product. That's probably what the owners are more afraid of. And like, hey, how bad we really want to make this for players because you're going to lose every time as a player. And clearly the players felt like they lost in 2011, Seth, which I think sets up the DeMorris timeline of after that, all the resentment leading up to where we've been the last year

or so. Is that fair? It's absolutely fair. And I think that, you know, if the players aren't willing to strike, that is their biggest piece of leverage right there. If they're not willing to do that, then what is a win? And what's DeMora Smith's actual power? And how does he use it?

And those are things that, like, you know, I think that we really tried to define and explore because you're absolutely right. I mean, the best leverage that the players have is to strike and go play football somewhere else and be willing to do that. And there's just limited options. And so once you get to that, it just depends on, you know, what DeMorris can chip away at in exchange for these deals that are hugely beneficial to owners. And, you know, he actually pulled off one little piece of negotiating, you know look he did he did some things very very well in 2011 but one of them that gets overlooked was that in the 2006 cba that

upshot negotiated the owners had the ability to extend the regular season without union consent and it led to this like showdown between Foxworth and Jerry Richardson, who was the Carolina Panthers owner at the time, where they were talking in 2011 about extending the regular season to 17 games. Foxworth says, look, Jerry, it's not happening. We're not playing 17 games. And Jerry Richardson says, we can make you, we don't have to ask you. We're being nice by saying, fuck you, you have to do it. Foxworth responds saying, we're being nice by not telling you, fuck you, we're not playing. Richardson responds by saying, we're being nice by not telling you, fuck you, we'll play with replacement players. And then Foxworth says, we're being nice by telling you, fuck you, good luck filling up your stadiums with Ryan Leaf as your quarterback.

I mean, poor Ryan Leaf, he gets thrown in there. But Smith actually did a really nifty piece of negotiating with that, where in 2011, he got that clause changed. This is the extra game clause, right? Yes, and management had to get union consent before they extended the regular season. So then if you fast forward to 2020 and the CBA negotiations and the league obviously pushing hard to extend the regular season, DeMora Smith was making them negotiate for something that was once theirs. That was a pretty good piece of negotiating by him that gets lost in a lot of this. Yeah, that's monumental.

That was one of the biggest numbers that jumped out to me. So let's go over that extra game deal. Because I remember talking to players at work where they're like, no way, no way, no way. And it felt like, hey, look, it's very standard operating procedure. Employees, employers, they want us to work more. We don't want to work more. But what's always been really tricky, and I think just hard for a lot of people to understand is, okay, well, the extra game, the extra revenue, the new TV deals, that's all going to be split up.

But it felt like the owner's proposals, every time I looked at it, I'm like, wait, so they thought they were going to get away with capping the extra game. So it wasn't like a straight revenue split on the extra revenue for an extra football game. And that's where I go, okay, well, if I'm a player, what are we talking about? We're actually changing the way we're able to calculate revenue, which is a really scary long-term deal for the players. There's no doubt. And, you know, D Smith had been building towards this moment for a long time. He clearly knew that, you know, and Dee is good at defending his record and he makes a lot of fine points, but he clearly knew

that the perception was that they got taken to the woodshed in 2011. So he had almost a decade to prepare for this latest round of negotiations, knowing that management wanted to extend the regular season. And he would go locker room to locker room and chat with players and give them presentations and try to tell them about proposals. And when D is in front of a room, he can be captivating. You know, he was a former lawyer. I mean, he's really good at holding a room, but sometimes players weren't paying attention.

And sometimes D, with all of his bravado, would say, you know, I think that he, I think that there was a disconnect between some of the things that he said and what he was saying at the negotiating table, even if it was a disconnect in perception. I know that sounds weird, but I'll give you an example of it. So D, in the fall of 2019, goes to a locker room. He's telling them what the owners want. They want to extend the regular season to 18 games. And he says, my legal advice to you guys on that, and I don't vote, would be to say, H to the hell, fuck no about 18 games. If we give them the right to dictate our work, nothing good's going to come out of it. So the players come out of that thinking, that's

right. No way we're extending the regular season. We're going to, you of it. So the players come out of that thinking, that's right. No way we're extending the regular season. We're going to, you know, we've got the leverage here. They want out of the CBA so that they can negotiate with broadcast partners. We're going to hold our ground. But the problem was, was that when it came to 17 games, D was a little bit different. And I think that a lot of players were confused and offended by how D felt about 18 games and what he was willing to compromise for 17. Do you feel like, as I was watching all that play out and reading, do you feel

like the players maybe should have used labor unrest more as a bargaining ship, knowing that labor peace was such an important part to any new TV negotiation? Or is that part of it overrated? Because I would have thought, hey, if you guys want real change, threaten the idea they're not going to have labor peace locked up for 10 years, by the way, which has pissed players off. And then now, all of a sudden, the owners have to go to the TV providers and not be able to promise any labor piece. I would

have thought maybe the owners, that would have been something that maybe they concede a little bit more as those negotiations became more real with the broadcasters. Absolutely. So you have fall of 2019. I'm sorry. Let's go back to spring of 2019. The union holds these meetings where they're trying to get their goals aligned. What are our priorities? We know that the league wants to negotiate early. All right, so what do we want? What can we try to get? And we have one of the executive committee members, Russell O'Koon, tackle for the LA Chargers, who feels like that there just is a lack of transparency with D. Smith and the union. They're not abiding by Robert's rules of order, which is common practice for unions, which is a recording of minutes and distributed to everyone.

He feels like that there just isn't transparency. So he's sitting in one of these meetings, that there just isn't transparency. So he's sitting in one of these meetings and they're listing their priorities and he worries that the priorities that they're listing and talking about are not going to be the ones that actually end up going to DeSmith and going to the negotiating table.

So he pulls out his phone and he records the meeting secretly. Fast forward a month, one of the union executives is speaking to the Chargers players about the priorities. That were proposed in the meeting that Okun had taped. Russell Okun realizes that the list that they're presenting is not the list that he felt was discussed. And he says, where are the real items? That's not the list.

And the union representative, Andy Studebaker says, well, this is the list. It came out of those meetings. Russell Okun says, guys, that's not the list. I know that because I recorded the meeting. This gets back to the union heads. They invest, they hire a law firm, a very expensive law firm to investigate Russell, hinting that he violated Florida law by recording the meeting. And it's like, they ended up not taking action against him. They just investigated him, but it felt like that they were trying to silence the centers. And I mean, you know, there's a lot of players who just felt like that that's just no way you treat one of our own. You

don't go after them for trying to get an honest conversation about what was discussed. But the result was that a lot of what the union was prioritizing was muddied. People felt silenced and worried to speak out. And so what the union wanted as they entered into the real negotiations in late of 2019 was really muddled and confusing.

And so as 2019 became 2020 and the deal is getting close, a lot of players are like, what are we talking about going off of 17 games? We thought that there was going to be no increase in the regular season. The Okung stuff is tough to figure out. Like, who do I believe here? Because part of it read as if he was firing a ton of ideas out at a meeting in Florida, and then people just didn't listen to him. And we're like, all right, whatever. And then when they did the team presentations later on,

he was mad that his ideas weren't part of the presentation. And then it's like, oh, and by the way, I taped you guys. So that part didn't make a lot of sense to me. But yet, as you point out, okay, fine. Even if you think he's wrong, not only because of a third-class felony of audio recording people privately, or you're just mad that your ideas aren't in the presentation, you're going to spend, what, $2 million to $3 million investigating one of our own players, which leads to a bigger criticism of DeMora Smith, is that, check my numbers here, but from the piece over a seven-year stretch,

Smith and his group that he oversees spent between $56 and $80 million on legal fees, meaning $56 specific to defending the players, which in comparison is astronomical to the other leagues. But again, the counter from DeMora Smith would be, well, we have so many more players, you can't compare the two. But that number still the most part. And they were all over Article 46 of the CBA that Smith himself negotiated and signed off on, which, you know, gives Roger Goodell broad authority to impose punishment as he sees fit. And so, yeah, that's a lot of money to spend on doomed legal challenges on a CBA that you negotiated. What other criticisms of Smith did you hear researching this piece and kind of what you think like, hey, these are a couple of the things that keep coming up with him and his leadership? Well, I think, again,

it's transparency. And, you know, Smith will push back on that. And let's take the 17th game, And, you know, Smith will push back on that. And let's take the 17th game, because that's obviously a big deal. It's part of his legacy, right? I mean, he's delivering more football for fans and more labor piece, which in theory, you'd think, you know, fans are really interested in that. And that's what they want. But, you know, at what cost is something that's going to reveal itself over time? And so in August of 2019, the league sends a formal proposal to the players that includes the 17th game. D. Smith sends that. Every player gets a copy of that proposal. after it took a secret meeting at Michael Rubin's apartment in New York City with Robert Kraft and DeMora Smith to get negotiations back on track. In December, even players on the executive committee like Richard Sherman are shocked that the union is negotiating off of 17 games. Smith is saying, look, you guys have known about this since August. You guys knew that this was what we were doing. But they're pissed because they feel like this is an unbelievable lack of transparency that after all these discussions, 17 games is part of the package that they're negotiating

off of. At the Super Bowl last year in Miami, they have a meeting that really goes off the rails. The players are upset. They feel like there's no accountability, no transparency. Aaron Rodgers is pissed. And DeSmith says, look, if you don't want to play 17 games, if you want to reject that proposal, you better be prepared to go on striking and it could last two or three years. Now, people like Aaron Rodgers got really upset about that. He thought it was like fear mongering because rank and file players, obviously, that's their entire career. So it ended up being a big mess. And as you saw it as February and March came and the CBA was voted on, I mean, the thing barely passed. And to remind everybody, that's March 15th when it passes a vote for 1019 votes versus 959 opposed.

What's up with the 500 guys that didn't vote? I mean, is it 500? And then after it passed by that slim of margin and other people were like, wait, can I change my vote? So this thing almost didn't happen. So what happened with that vote? And how is it? Is it just such a bad look for the union that that many people, if that's true, didn't vote? Or are we talking about like guys that didn't even know they had a vote that were practice squad guys? Like I've just never

understood that number. Yeah. And it's a mystery. I mean, I honestly, I'm not sure that I quite understand also why these guys didn't vote. I mean, this is an incredibly consequential thing. What happened to those 500 players? And, you know, it did pass by a razor thin margin. And, you know, a lot of the big superstars in the league came out against it. And, you know, it not only was a horrible look for Dee Smith, you know, to think that after all of these years of him trying to accumulate leverage and prepare for these talks, that it would go off the rails in the last, you know, the final days of this thing, barely pass, was a horrible indictment of, you know, his ability to communicate to his players because they were so

upset. And he'll push back on that saying, like, I can't communicate any clearer than I did. But there was a lot of owners who were getting pissed at him also, because they were like, look, we've been talking about 17 games since August. Of course, that was the starting point for negotiations. And now all of these players are coming out saying like, wait a second, what? We're talking about 17 games here how did that happen and even they were frustrated with him and it became like this situation where i mean you talk about a no-win situation you have half of the you have so many of the players who are basically saying d is like more aligned with management than he is with us management is like what is this guy how has he been this bad at communicating with players why Why are we here

where we are right now? And yeah, I mean, clearly, like it barely passed. And as soon as it did, people had buyer's remorse. And they asked if they could go back and change their votes. They were told they could not. If they could have, I don't know where we'd be right now, to be honest with you. I want to defend DamMorris not with tons of information from my research, but just the human nature of all this. Whenever I keep reading in your piece or hear about, oh, the lack of communication, lack of communication, I feel like sometimes that's just a substitute phrase for, I got an outcome I don't like. So now I'm going to say the communication isn't there. It is not hard for me to believe that there's a bunch of players that

had no idea and didn't pay attention. And as you point out, DeMorris had plenty of evidence. He's like, look, I can't open the books up for you here, but I'll show you all of the communication with all the players, all the meetings, all the player reps and all this stuff. They've been told, they've been told, they've been told. Another thing that's completely unfair and the criticism of him is that he's not a former player. That's total bullshit. And athletes do that default where it's like, well, he's not really one of us. Gene Upshaw was as one of you as anyone ever could be. And Gene Upshaw was constantly criticized for being an arm of ownership. Okay. I mean, you think it's bad in the statue line for all the DeMora stuff. Players used to think Gene Upshaw was more aligned with owners and the

commissioner than even DeMora has been for the the last decade because I remember all of that stuff. I don't know if this job, I don't know if being the executive director of the NFLPA, it is possible to have the job to have everybody like you. side of the table. And so they can like the deals, but it gets back to the math of this. It's 2,500 players, short-term thinkers versus long-term thinkers, only 32 owners. So I don't know that you can ever win both perception-wise and when all the final documentation is filed, I don't know that you ever feel like you can win. So it's almost a non-winnable position that's public enough that it leads to all sorts of criticism, especially when it's athletes that are alphas, that are outspoken. And and the star level when Aaron Rodgers is posting a video saying the deal sucks. And it's like, does it suck for 2,500 people or does it suck for you, Aaron? So that's the part of this is you put it all together. I go, you know what? I may not agree with everything

with DeMora Smith. I'm not as educated on it, clearly, as you are in researching it or anyone working on those sides of it. But we have to be honest and kind of check ourselves on what is actually capable of anyone that has this job. Who would have this job? We'd be like, this is awesome. Because you know what? If you want to be Marvin Miller and be incredibly defiant and the old baseball union head who, when you read about him, I mean, look, if ownership said, hey, well, the games are nine innings and he'd stop you and go, why aren't they eight or 10? I mean, that was like his basic philosophy because it was time to battle the owners. And unless you're going to do that, I don't know that you can ever get

the players to feel it. But then if the players don't have checks for two years, are they going to really love that battle mentality? Because that may not be what you want. It may sound good until you're actually in it, in a real work stoppage. I think that D has always felt like an outsider. I mean, he came to the NFL. He came to the table, again, without playing experience, without sports law experience. He answers that room with owners and league executives, one of the few black men in a room of very rich white people. And I think that he has

just, you know, and I think as much as he's worked, I think that like that mentality, I don't know if it's ever really left him. I think that he just always feels like, and has always felt like that no matter what he does, he kind of feels like an outsider and is also kind of viewed as someone who is disconnected from the issues that his constituency wants solved. And so what do you do with that? And I think that that's one of the things that Don and I try to address in this piece. It's like, to go to your point, what is exactly his power? If they're not willing to strike, what is his power? How is a win defined? You know, what things can DeMora Smith actually do to help the players? And, you know, now we're going to have a nice long CBA to try to sort

that stuff out. You know, and this is most likely be his last, you know, turn at negotiating. I can't see him in this job in 10 more years. It's just, I think that he'll, you know, get tired of it,

to be honest with you. And, um, it'll be interesting to see how it plays itself out over the next, you know, decade or so. Yeah, that was it.

Cause I was going to say, how much longer is he on the job? And the sense I get from you now in in the piece is that um look the next labor deal is not going to be up for a long time but i mean what do you think is a realistic timeline for demorris yeah i don't know i mean you know i think that number one this was always going to be rogers last cba and demorris is um but the interesting thing is, like, what does DeMorris do from here? You know, it's like, they obviously were, you know, the fallout from the CBA was great, but it was also somewhat muddled because of what happened with the pandemic. And, you know, it's been a long

year of working with the league. You mentioned the salary cap dispute, you know, before the beginning of the season earlier. You know, they got us through the regular season. What can DeMores do now? Is he going to keep filing lawsuits every time a player gets suspended by Roger? Is he going to go back to being, you know, Roger's chief antagonist? You see them at the Super Bowl. They were posing together with pictures. They were laughing it up. Aides with them at the press conference were trying to get them to move along and get off of the stage. And they were chit-chatting so much, they just kind of let them be. You know, like I said, you read the quote at the beginning. At this point,

most owners would build a statue of Dee in front of their stadiums if they could. this point, most owners would build a statue of D in front of their stadiums if they could. I don't know what D can do right now to try to change that perception. And, you know, a lot of owners think that he's, you know, not long for the job. I'm not so sure about that. But I'm not sure what he's going to do the next couple years that's going to change the way that a lot of players and owners perceive him. Great work on this. And please share that with Don, who I know you guys are great on this stuff, man. Every couple of years, you have one of these pieces that come out that help us understand all this a lot more. And speaking of, I know you have a book coming out.

I'm going to be retweeting it for you. We'll have you on again. But why don't you give a little drop for that one as well? Thanks, man. Yeah, in October, I've got a book coming out. I'm going to be retweeting for you. We'll have you on again, but why don't you give a little drop for that one as well? Thanks, man. Yeah. In October, I've got a book coming out. It's called It's Better to be Feared. It's about the New England Patriots dynasty. And, you know, it's been fun to write a book. You get to like, you know, go a little bit longer than I do in the magazine or with these website pieces, which of course are long to begin with. But I look at, you know, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft and what it takes to be great and what are the costs of it. And, um, I think it's going to be a good read and I'm really looking forward to this fall

when we can talk about it more in depth. Can't wait to have you on man. You're, uh, you're terrific. You deserve all the accolades. Thanks, Seth. Thanks, Mark. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid.

So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. We promised it. And I'm telling him we're going to do investment life advice, maybe a little real estate as well. But this is the one I think everybody was really excited about, the fitness one. So we've gone through the emails, Kyle and I. And joining us now is Whitney Reed. You can follow him on Instagram.

It's Whitney Reed 33 underscore fit. He is a 12 time fitness model. And trust me, the avatar that he has, you're like, okay, this guy's legit. And I don't know, we started DM in a long time ago. He's now the executive vice president of BPI sports, the supplement company. He sent me stuff over the years. I don't know how kind of how it started. I think we just started chatting a little bit and you were cool and, you know, we'll go off and on, but it's good to catch up and try this with you here, man.

So how are you? Definitely awesome. Thanks for having me on. And, you know, our friendship started back. I remember I was at lunch one day with some guys from work and you were on air. We were listening to you and you mentioned something about a pre-workout. I don't remember what brand it was, but you mentioned something. And I'd you right away. And I said, Hey dude, I've got some pre-workouts I want to send you. And you hit me back. And I thought it was so cool. Cause like I'd mentioned before, you know, I've been following you and your career for years and you hit me back and you're like, Hey, I think I recognize you from a bodybuilding.com video or something like that. Yeah. That's what it was. Yeah. Cause I used to go on there cause they actually have really good workout videos. Like there was different stuff whenever

you're trying to change it up. So, um, let's do a little bit more background. How big, how, how enormous and strong were you before you started to go fitness? Cause you sent me some videos just to give you a little more credibility. Yeah. So a little background, I played some D3 college football. I wasn't an incredible athlete, but I was a decent football player. And after my football career, I got into just training heavy. And I got into powerlifting first. And at one point, I was probably early 20s, 21, 22. I was about 270 pounds.

And I was benching over 500 pounds. So, you know, that's kind of rare for a fitness model, which, you know, like I'm considered now, but I was a 500 pound bencher. I had a 600 pound squat and I was dead lifting over 600 pounds at that point. numbers when guys will be like oh i'm dead lifting this i'm like yeah all right whatever like you know it's like sumo you know like all right yeah crash pads you're like no sick sick rip man um but no whitney sent me a picture of the 500 pound press once and i was just like and it was great too because i think you went like all cut up long sleeve sweats that's it yeah so it wasn't like stringer t but there was a little customization on these massive drapes on you. And then you're just throwing around all these plates. All right. So let's, uh, let's get into it. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. If this goes well and he enjoys it,

um, we'll, we'll do it again. So here we go. All right. First one, this one spoke to me as a young kid, some background guys, a 21 yearyear-old college student, 6'3", would call myself a decent but not great-looking guy. Worst part about my body is how skinny I am, only weighing in at 130 pounds. Super thin, yep, especially when considering my height. Putting on weight has been a problem for me as long as I can remember. I'm sure some people are hearing this saying, I'd love to have that problem. Maybe they're right. And by the way, for the skinny people out there, if you make fun of somebody overweight, there's just not enough skinny people awareness rights.

I feel like everyone's allowed to call skinny people skinny all the time, and then they're not supposed to be able to fight back about it. So I agree with the emailer here. I'm definitely more happy with being super skinny, but super overweight. But truth be told, I'm sick of being this skinny.

I just want to bulk up. My guess is the first thing people think of when they meet me is, wow, that guy's super skinny. I'd like to shake that label. I'd like to help me feel better about myself after recently going through a tough breakup. Now feels like a great time for me to improve myself and my body. I'm looking for any piece of advice you guys have on bulking up. I'm going to cut through this. I've always eaten a good amount of food.

These past week, I've more concerted effort to eat more than usual. Protein shakes on, on, on. Definitely feel like it's helping out. All right. So here we go. Really skinny guys. 130 wants to bulk up. Let's keep this one PED free. So what do you say? Well, first off, he's actually in a great position and you're right. A lot of people don't focus on the demographic of guys going to the gym that are skinny and they can't put on weight. Everybody's going to the gym talking about trying to lose weight or whatever it is. But there are a lot of people out there that have a really difficult time putting on muscle mass and gaining weight. They have super high metabolisms and they really don't know where to start. So with anyone in that

position, like I said, they're starting a great spot because if you put on just a little bit of muscle, a couple of pounds of muscle is gonna look awesome on someone that's starting off 130, 140 pounds. So you will see some quick gains at the beginning. And really the only way to focus on putting on quality muscle and quality size is to increase

the calorie consumptions, but from all good whole foods. Don't go the route of the Big Macs and the fast food route. Definitely take in a lot of whole foods, increase your calories. And in the gym, focus on the three main lifts, the bench, the squat, and the deadlift. That's what's going to put on the muscle mass. Don't spend hours in the gym. Your sessions should only be like 30 minutes or so because if you're in the gym

and you're focusing on all the other exercises, the tricep pushdowns, the curls, you're burning calories. Get into the gym, focus on those core lifts, and eat a ton of food. You're going to put on weight. And what? Space it out. Five meals. They don't have to be massive meals, but you're going to have to really commit to some real planning, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. You're going to need five to six meals during the day. I would recommend two of those come from shakes because it's a whole lot easier to digest and it's a lot easier to get your calories in if you're drinking as opposed to eating. easier to digest and it's a lot easier to get your calories in if you're drinking as opposed to eating. Uh, for example, and, um, I actually have a pretty good free meal plan and this, I'm not trying to sell anything. No, do it on my website on Whitney Reed fitness, Whitney Reed fit.com. You can look it up. And, um, I have a bench press routine and I have a meal plan associated with this bench press routine. And this is all free. I like to give away all of my information. I do not sell any fitness advice because when I first

got into this, you know, into the gym and training, I had a lot of good people in my life that, that helped guide me. And I want to do the same for others. But with the, with the meal plan, my suggestion would be in the morning, a cup of oats mixed with some types of fruit, your egg whites, skip a couple hours, have a shake. Another couple hours, have your lunch, chicken breast, plain white baked potato. A couple hours later, have another shake, come back with some red meat and some vegetables at night, and then in the night with a half a dozen egg whites. Yeah, right. and some vegetables at night and then in the night with you know a half a dozen egg whites yeah right the great thing about this though and i'll get to the next one when you're that skinny but you start to see results it's the best feeling ever and you're actually you know anyone that's been lifting a long time the greatest time to lift is in the beginning because that's when you start

putting it on and you're just young too another thing dude 21 i don't know what your your family looks like but you know some people don't fill out mean, I didn't really fill out until I was like 26, 27. It was crazy. So don't get too frustrated. All right, next one. now, but I've always wondered what times of proteins and supplements others, uh, lifters use, which ones do you prefer? I've been using cell tech and muscle tech creatine. Um, but I don't know what the most effective one is. So instead of making it a brand thing, because then people just think you're, you know, what do you actually think works? Because dudes are out there spending a ton of money. And I would argue a lot of times, you know, it's kind of cool and maybe it motivates you, but I don't know that you're always getting results. No, there's a lot of hype behind supplement companies and a lot of marketing that's selling products that don't necessarily work.

So when you look at the supplement world, creatine monohydrate is the most known supplement and it is by far the most studied supplement on the market and it works. If you're taking five to 10 grams of creatine a day, you will get stronger and you will get bigger. And overall performance will increase. So for me, I like to stick to a creatine if I'm trying to put on some muscle mass or some size, an isolate protein and an amino acid for recovery. If you stick to those basic products,

you will get results. Okay. There you go. What do you think about that new pea protein, the vegetable stuff? Yeah, I actually make a pea protein now. I mean, with all of the, uh, with the increased focus on plant-based diets, it's very popular. Uh, I don't particularly like the taste of the pea protein. I think it's, I mean, it tastes like kind of like dirt, but it's definitely popular right now. All right. We got a former Army Ranger checking in. 38, six feet tall, 178 when he was in the Army, said he never weighed more than 155.

He throws some ridiculous stats here. I'm going to share them with you. For my career, I could max out the point scale in the Army's physical fitness test, which was push-ups, sit-ups, and a two-mile run. My five-mile run time was between 36 and 37 minutes. I could do a 12-mile course with a 100-pound combat load in less than two and a half hours. I left the Army in 2012, was able to maintain my fitness at the gym five, six days a week. Fast forward to 2014, Army, he's been out of it for two years. He's working 50, 60 hours a week, four or five nights a week studying on weekends for his MBA.

So look, this guy has an incredible foundation, an incredible work ethic, but now he's been out of it and wants to get back to it. The thing I didn't understand quite about the email was just like, do you want to get back to that? Because I don't know that either of us. was just like, do you want to get back to that? Because I don't know that either of us. That guy's way more qualified than I am to speak on that. I couldn't do any of those things. I mean, first off, he's an Army Ranger, so he's a badass.

I mean, I think he's a badass. Why are you emailing us? But if his question was to focus on how to make time to, I guess, just get back into the gym in general, it's simple. You just have to prioritize. And I know that sounds so basic, but that's all it is. I mean, for me, when my son was first born, my life completely changed. And I couldn't spend two hours in the gym anymore after work. So I just had to adjust.

And I had to get up a little bit earlier. I built out the garage gym at home. If you don't have, you know, a gym in your complex or your house or whatever, add some, even if it's dumbbells, have something at the house that you can use.

And that's kind of how you, you know, make time to make it work. The band stuff is incredible. And I know a lot of people are on it, especially with the last year, but I ordered a bunch of stuff to be able to home. And I don't, I don't do, I don't have a workout that doesn't have them. And I used to

laugh at it, not laugh, but I was just like, whatever, it's stupid. Honestly, getting it as I get, you know, older and older and trying to avoid every single injury, starting with bands for 10 minutes has, has been a huge positive for me on all the workouts because I'm activating all the muscles. I'm getting warm, but I'm not too strenuous. Or I shouldn't say it's not so strenuous that then I'm not getting good results on the rest of the workout. Yeah, definitely. And it keeps that constant tension,

whatever motion you're doing. So in your fully extended state where you're typically, that's your strong point right here, it's going to add more tension. Whereas if you're just holding dumbbells, you wouldn't feel it. Okay, another one here from Brian.

It says, hi, I'm 45, 6'2", almost 230, pretty active, but a podcaster. Should I go for 405 pounds for my bench press max? I know this guy. Yes, you should. You should train extremely heavy. All all right but it did also there's another line it says if I've never really gotten north of 350 is now the wrong time to try something like this in my life no definitely not I mean if if that's a goal I mean whatever it is go for it I mean you're in great shape you train. It seems like an incredibly stupid goal.

No, it's not, though. It's not at all. I mean, especially if it's something that you take pride in your bench press and you've never done it. That's an awesome feat if you hit four plates on each side. So I'm serious. Take a look at my website and try that bench press routine. That's the routine that I used in my early 20s to get to 500 pounds. I don't know, Brian, good luck. Let's just cut through the bullshit here too. Let's

talk about steroids. Because we had an emailer chime in here where he basically was like, and I think this part of it's kind of bullshit is like some of the celebrities and it's like I'm not on anyone's case for getting their body to where they need to get it for a movie. When I, you know, I think that there's athletes that have a version of whatever their approach is to get themselves right. So I'm certainly not advocating for it all. But I do get frustrated for like younger people that see some, oh, look at Hollywood's latest 60 day transformation. And any one of us that have been around guys that have used, you're like, Jesus Christ, dude. Like you didn't just decide to go egg whites and crunches all day.

Like you're on something. And all right, fine. Like you want to roll, you want to be, you know, cast as something that you weren't before or like, Hey, look at me. I'm working out at four in the morning and I'm working around at eight. And it's like, dude, okay. You're not getting a little help. So what's, what's realistic. Like, what do you understand about that world that

probably most of us don't? Well, I would first start by saying this. I, I don't have a problem with anyone that does use, you know, any, you know, some type of, um, testosterone replacement or growth hormone therapy, something like that. I don't see any issue with it. And I think that there are a lot of people on those type of products, a lot more people that anyone would realize. I mean, there are a lot of people that I know that take testosterone replacement therapy that don't even go to the gym and you wouldn't even know that they train. And then you hear that they're taking this stuff and it's kind of shocking. So I think it's a whole lot more prevalent than we believe or we think or we know. I think there are a lot of athletes that dabble in that. And I know there's a lot of people in Hollywood, but like, you're right. It is very misleading that you see a Hollywood star get a six pack, go on the cover

of some like tabloid magazine and say, you know, I tried this bad diet and that's how I got this six pack. That's total BS, right? But to get to that point and if that's going to benefit their career, I see no problem with them using it. Yeah. See, I have no problem with them using it to further their career. I mean, that's the world that they chose to be in. And it's, it's a lot like sports in that sense. Like, how can I be better at what I do? I also think there'll be times 10, 20 years from now, we'll look back at the stigma of some of the testosterone treatment where you're like, wait, why didn't anybody really have again in moderation? Um, but I, you know, I also don't want to be insensitive to anyone listening to

this feeling like, Hey, these are two meatheads that are saying they're pro all this stuff because we're not i just think it's incredibly frustrating for young people to see some instagram posts of somebody famous being like look at my body 60 days later when you're like well it's bullshit it's total bullshit you didn't just find the routine you're full of shit yeah and they should be called out on that that's that's total bullshit i hate that by the way what's going on with these instagram deadlift girls in the yoga pants? Because I'm hearing there's a lot of, it's not just deadlifts and stretching. And I think that blows some dudes' minds too, which is, you know what?

Like, it's fair game. Like, I'm all for it. But when I'll talk to some guys about, like, someone here at a gym in LA and they're like, oh my God, she's on all sorts of shit. And be like, okay, so that's how she's turned into J-Lo last week? I'm a hater. So, yeah, dude, she's on all sorts of shit. And be like, okay, so that's how she's turned into J-Lo last week? I'm a hater. So I'm such a hater. So I'm going to call them out.

And 70% of it's either injections or implants or PED help for sure. There are a lot of girls that take hormone replacement therapy. Yes, I think it's important to keep this fair. All right, here we go. We have a guy checking in, lives in the South. He's in medical sales. He's basically asking for... Oh, this is good.

Okay, yeah. He wants to be kind of like in the trainer world that you're in. And you're not a self-promoter at all, which is one of the reasons I like you. But I also understand you kind of have to be a self-promoter to live in this world. If you were 10 years younger, you'd probably be doing it all the time too. So I can't really knock anybody that's hustling enough to get their stuff out there. So our guy, he wants to ask about this. Okay. about this. Okay. I took the time from COVID where I was working from home and I had an extra one to two hours per day and I used to become a certified personal trainer. Now that I have the certification, I've created a second Instagram account to try promoting myself as a trainer and maybe get some clients through that medium. I've only posted on this account five times since my announcement post that I got certified to be a trainer back in September. My problem is I still feel weird posting workout videos or pictures of myself because I keep

thinking people don't want to see that. My question for advice two-parter, how do you get over the feeling of weirdness of taking videos and pictures of yourself at the gym working out? Two, are there other online mediums you'd recommend to put yourself or at least himself out there more? Right now, I said, look, I just got two clients, make a little extra cash. I've also spoken with a local gym owner, and he said he would refer clients to me if he thinks there might be an opportunity for a good fit. However, that was three months ago and I haven't heard anything since. Please keep in mind, I don't

plan on training becoming my primary source of income anytime soon as I do well in my engineering job. Love that work as well. Have a wife, a newborn son to take care of. I don't want to quit this engineering job, but I do want to start making enough as a trainer that my wife can quit her job in the next one to two years to stay at home with our kids. So there you go. This is right up your alley. Yeah, definitely. And I admire someone like that that's got a great job and is looking to expand and do something different and get into the training. And it is an awesome way to build a nice side business. And there are a lot of people that are very successful as personal trainers. Now, the one point as far as when will you get over the weird feeling of self-promoting? I don't know. Unless you're like super narcissist, I don't know if you ever get

over that feeling. I still feel weird. And I've posed for so many different magazines. And anytime that I take a picture with my shirt off, I'm super uncomfortable. So I still feel that way. So I don't know if you ever fully get over that. But you have to figure out exactly what it is that's bothering you. Is it the fact that you feel like you're self-promoting and you don't want to talk about yourself that way? Or is it the fear of what other people think of you? And if it's the fear of what others people think of you? And if it's the fear of what others are thinking of you, F them. Do what you have to do to build your business. I do think that Instagram is the best way to build a personal training business. And I think it's

a great time to focus on that because there are so many people that are training at home, aren't going to the gyms, they're not meeting trainers in person. And you need to focus on the digital aspect of training. So my wife does a lot of online training. She has a lot of clients. And in order to build that following, you do have to post regularly three, four times a day on Instagram to show why you're different or what you know that others don't and why people would sign up for your program. That last part is the most important part. Cause it's the same thing. Like you're either in or you're not. And it's so competitive now in social media for anyone in fitness, you can't just sort of be interested in it and then be surprised that you're not getting results. It's an all or nothing thing. One thing I do want to add to that, if you're not on TikTok,

and I know that that's so weird, like TikTok still creeps me out because I feel like it's a bunch of young kids, but it is transitioning. It is, but it's transitioning to something totally different. And if you're looking for free organic traffic, TikTok, there's no place other than TikTok to get that. All right. Good tip there. Okay.

This is a little gym corner one. I like lighting this up a bit. I've been going to gym a few years now. Our is a little gym corner one. I like lighten this up a bit. Um, we go to the gym a few years now. Our man's in Sweden apparently. So I don't know what the gyms are like over there. Although I've seen some fitness posts from Sweden that would make me want to sign up for a 10 day membership. Uh, I have five regulars at the gym.

Oh yeah. He goes, all right. He goes, this has been bothering from the start. What the fuck is the deal with active resting? I have around five regulars at my gym that do this every time. I mean, I get why they are doing it, but you really have to walk around the entire fucking

gym staring at other people with a judgy look, then go back to your machine, do another set, then do the same fucking walk again. It's so damn annoying and it really pisses me off. For the love of God, just walk your fucking five meters back and forth. I love that he goes meters here like a normal person. Shake your muscles, stare down at the floor or the mirror. And he just swears away that he's past my, I don't want to overdo my threshold of swearing. You got to use them productively. So he wants to know what's going on with active resting. All right. Well, I love the question. I love his approach. Active resting is a real thing.

So if you're into like interval training and you're doing, let's say a three to one split on your sprint. So let's say that you sprint all out for 10 seconds and then you do an active rest, which would be a walk for 30 seconds. I think that's a very effective way to burn body fat. And it's a very effective way to get your cardio done in a shorter amount of time. I don't personally believe in doing hours on the treadmill or something like that. So that is an awesome way to get in shape. Now the stare down portion, I don't know. I mean, I just think there's a bunch of weird people in the gym to begin with. I mean, we all know the old man that hangs out in the locker room naked and, you know, people that do weird exercises on machines that they're not supposed to be doing it. So, you know,

there are just weird people in the gym. And we were talking about that yesterday. There's some strange people in the fitness world. So I don't, I don't know how to respond to that. Uh, I remember once I had this thing that i decided to do where i was going to sprint the tenth of a mile on a treadmill in between every set and i must have looked like the biggest loser at the gym uh that day but i just was in this mood where i go i want to just absolutely vomit when i'm done with this deal today and it look it was a workout but it was just stupid like all right this guy's he just did dumbbells and now he's he's like sprinting back now i wasn't sprinting back to the treadmill but i was you know quick walk over all right um okay we got another one our guys um saying look

i'd done some lifting back when i was in my 20s it went terribly as i just got fat reading listening to forum bros or magazines telling me to try to put on a pound a week by eating everything under the sun. Real quick aside, is it true that cheat meals are actually good for you, that your body likes that bad fat once a week? Yes. I don't know if there's a specific day or seven day, 10 day, whatever it is, but it's definitely good to increase your calories every seven, 10, two weeks, something like that. There's definitely something behind that. It's going to help boost your metabolism. And beyond all of that, whether it works or not, there's nothing wrong with having some foods that you want every once in a while. I mean, I think it's more of just great for mental clarity and just so you don't like snap at someone to have that

cheat meal there's nothing wrong with that and the best is if you have a cheat meal you can have a pepperoni pizza on your lap in a bed next to your swedish girlfriend who's an 11 and then you can post that on instagram and you can think people like it because of you so that's something to think about with cheat meals but the metabolism the science has been argued, and it convinced me to just get a little rowdy once a week, but that it's shocking your system. So your body is not in too much of a routine with everything being clean all the time, that it's forcing your body to kind of burn stuff in a different way that actually is a good thing. It's like resetting and confusing the body a little bit. That's at least how I was convinced of it. If you're in a calorie deficit mode always trying to lose weight, your metabolism is going to slow down. You're going to

actually hurt yourself. So you do need to increase the calories every once in a while. Okay. That was great news to everybody listening. All right. So back to our guy here. calories every once in a while. Okay. That was great news to everybody listening. All right. So back to our guy here. Wanted to add a pound a week, eating everything under the sun. I figured with quarantine and the inability to do jujitsu here. So we got a jujitsu guy on our hands. He would try to put on some clean weight. Since then I've put on 15 pounds, fairly clean, little fluff. I'm currently six, four to, looking to add maybe another five or so pounds before I get back to training, again, jiu-jitsu. My question is, how little does one have to work out to maintain size and weight? As I head back to doing jiu-jitsu two, three times a week, my lifting frequency is

going to have to be reduced to fit real-time plus the fitness. So what can I do to maintain weight? So basically, it sounds like the math on this is, look, he's going to be far more active burning calories doing any of the jujitsu stuff than he would be in a gym. So if he wants to be at 210 and 215, this is complicated. I think this one's a little bit more complicated because what he's trying to do is kind of go in opposite directions from what he's actually going to be trying to pull off. Very tough to do both at once. It's actually, if you, it's the same thing with being, you know, in the, the, the calorie deficit, if you're constantly burning calories, training jujitsu, which is going to burn a lot more calories than what, you know, when you're just in the gym, you're going to have

a tough time maintaining that you're going to have to eat more food. And that's really all it is. And it's, it's, it's not, there's, there's no magic. There's no secret. You just have to get more calories in. I always thought the easiest thing, especially for younger guys, maybe not have that much money. Like, and I used to do this cause I was, I was almost by choice cause of the money restrictions, but I would make bulk food. I would make a tub of chicken salad with barely any mayo on it. You know, I would do these things. These things are really easy to make. And when it's there and you throw a wrap and a couple pieces of lettuce and hell, Parmesan

cheese crumbled up on it. And it's like, okay, like I ate, I don't need to eat for a couple hours. So if you're broke, want to add weight and you think it's all these supplements, it's really, dude, cook a bunch of chicken, get those microwave rice packs that are super easy to make. It takes 90 seconds. They're cheap. You throw the cooked rice, throw some cold chicken over the top of it, throw whatever kind of dressing you want. I mean, even the barbecue sauce, you could talk sugar and calories and all that kind of stuff. But if you're doing that a couple times a day on top of what you're normally doing, you are going to add weight. It is that

simple, but it's just so hard to maintain that routine. Like I lived with a guy that was doing shows and he was waking up at four in the morning to make eggs and bacon. And then he went back to bed and then woke up at like six, you know? So I'm not saying everybody has to do that, but it is always funny when a guy's like, well, I want to get bigger. It was like, okay, what are you doing? You have to put in the work. Yeah. Yeah., I want to get bigger. It was like, okay, what are you doing? You have to put in the work. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And to touch on what you're saying as far as prepping the food in advance, what, and I still do this to this day. I don't use red meat like I used to, but I'll take a bunch of ground beef, put it in a pot. It's so easy. Even if you don't know how to cook, you can make this, throw it in a huge pot, let it cook, put some seasoning in it. Those little hidden valley ranch packs that you used to make salad dressing with, put some ranch dressing in that, mix it up. It tastes awesome. And you've got five pounds of ground beef to eat on for the next couple of days. And then you don't have to worry about it. It's just like you said, it's, it's plug and play. It's really easy. This was terrific, man. Um, unfortunately,

Whitney shared with me a card that may be missing right now is worth way more than I ever thought it was. So he put me in a devastatingly bad mood for about a day. I'm still not sure I'm going to find this basketball rookie card. So, well, I mean, I had to find out at some point and maybe I still have it, but I think it's missing forever as he has his Jordan collection behind him. Look, Whitney, you're terrific, man. Thanks a lot for doing this. Thanks for taking the time for the listeners. And let's do it again at some point, right?

This is awesome. I'd love to. Thanks, man. Again, that's Whitney Reed, three, three underscore fit. And then again, the website. So people would check out that free information. Yep. Whitney Reed fit.com.

I've got free bench press routine, free diet plan. It's all there for you. Awesome. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed it. A little different today. We'll be back on the NBA run. Bill and I doing Sunday, change the schedule for this week,

but we're back to Monday, Wednesday, Friday of next week. So three full ones for you. A couple of good guests lined up. So please subscribe and spread the word. Thanks again. Thank you.