The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Terrell Davis on Going From Backup to Hall of Famer, Wild CFB Coaching Buyouts, Plus Russillo Travel Stories

Episode Date: November 24, 2021

Ryen shares a couple of stories from his travels to Chicago and New York City (00:51) before getting into some of the crazy college football coaching buyouts and why we’ve become desensitized to them (10:55). Then, he chats with Super Bowl champion and Hall of Fame running back Terrell Davis about Jonathan Taylor and the state of the running back position, plus stories from his time at Georgia and with the Broncos—including two times he almost quit the game (18:59). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:01:34).  Host: Ryen Russillo  Guests: Terrell Davis  Producers: Kyle Crichton, Steve Ceruti, and Brian H. Waters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is back and so is the Ringer NFL show. Coming at you five days a week with wall-to-wall coverage from recapping the Sunday games, giving a player perspective, deep dives, and previewing the coming slate. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Today's podcast is a great sit down with Terrell Davis, Broncos Hall of Fame running back, his star, him almost quitting. A crazy story about one of his former head coaches. And I'm going to do a little travel, a little travel pod for you.

Chicago, New York, back to LA. A little music review as well and life advice oh let's not forget this there was a headline this week in college football that should make all of us gasp and it didn't hey everybody uh getting you ready hopefully for a commute or whatever or maybe you're home so uh we're not going to be on on Friday so please enjoy Thanksgiving and uh those of you getting to see everybody uh enjoy it you know what I mean you get older you start to appreciate it a little bit more all right I I have some travel notes for you. And then I have a headline from college football that I have to get to.

That just is the headline. It's a huge deal and people should be freaking out about it, but nobody's going to freak out about it. But I just kind of want to start. I was on the road. You may have noticed on some of the breakout videos there. I'd stopped in Chicago to see friends. And then I was in New York for almost a week.

I just wanted to get back to doing some of the stuff that I used to do, uh, backgrounds in Connecticut back before everything in the world changed a year and a half ago or so. So I just wanted to do some stuff that I hadn't done. I hadn't been to live music in forever. So I met up with a couple of college roommates, did Chicago 48 hours, went to see widespread panic for the first time in 20 years. Uh, it was a good show. It was a good show. It was kind of funny though, cause you're looking around and you're like, man,. It was a good show. It was a good show. It was kind of funny, though, because you're looking around and you're like, man, this crowd's a little older.

And we're like, yeah, we are older. A lot of weed. A lot of weed. Not for your boy. Not surprising. But just a fun, fun show to see them live again. Kind of get back.

I remember seeing them in 1993 in a church once. And then I also saw them at a ski resort. So I always kind of liked them. So Chicago, it wasn't even 48 hours. It was great though

because like middle of the show, me and my two college roommates were looking at each other. We're going, hey, Dublin's after this. Captain late night. Like, let's do it. Because I didn't have to work

the next day. All I had to do was fly to New York. And I'm thinking, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. And then one guy left before the show was over. He goes, hey, my daughter gets up

between 4 and 7 a.m. And then me and my buddy were like, all right, see you loser. And then I think 30 minutes later, we were like, Hey, should we get out of here to beat the traffic? And now I kind of didn't want to leave and they closed. We can't find my way home by blind faith. So I missed it. So I'm not going to be thrilled about missing any blind faith cover, but I did. And then made my way to New York city and back to the little village of Soho. I don't know how many people hang out down there. I like it because everything's kind of right there. I can work from the hotel. There's a hotel that I've been staying at for like 10 years that I love. I love the upstairs. I love

everything about it. So I used to always kind of go to escape the deal there. But it's still kind of funny being in New York where, um, even like on a Soho early morning, you know, commuting hours, it's still a little slower than you would think. Uh, which is always weird. And then, you know, I'm talking to friends that live there. It's like when you, if you had been here during the height of the pandemic, it's, I am legend shit.

Like it was crazy. But a lot of the places that, you know, you wonder if they were survived, have survived, um, through that i also the biggest reason why i was going was to see christian scott attend to aswa who he doesn't like the word jazz but we had him on this podcast trumpet player from new orleans and they put together this new group uh that he has now that played at the blue note so i went three nights three i think he was there. I was in New York for four of them. So I went to go see him three times, which I've never done. I don't think I've ever gone to see anybody musically where I go, I want to see this again and again

and then again. And I did. And I loved it every time. He's probably my favorite musician going right now. But there's just something about New York City that I know even if you don't want to live there, it is pretty amazing to just kind of turn every 10 minutes and you're in this new section of the city. I've never lived there. I thought I would at some point. I doubt I ever will now. But it was just kind of nice to have it back, at least for me. And I know it's been back now for a while, but I hadn't been back in over a couple of years.

I hadn't been back in over a couple of years. So then to go and to see this guy play in the small club, which was a disaster even getting in there. I'll share this with you. You want to talk widespread panic? New York City loves weed. And I'm not like some narc here, but there was a guy as we were waiting in line to go into the show on, I think, the last night that I went.

I think it was a Sunday. This guy sat in a chair in the line. So I thought he was in line and then I the show on, I think, the last night that I went. I think it was a Sunday. This guy sat in a chair in the line. So I thought he was in line and then I realized he wasn't. He ripped four J's in a row. We're talking cones here. Just tip to end four straight

in like 35 minutes. I can't even fathom how high this guy must have been once he was done. And I think he just kind of liked the idea that he was doing it and he was just blowing smoke and basically this line didn't move. So it was like this couple with a kid that just

sat there as he was trying to blow the smoke over their head. I've never seen... Seriously, and I've spent time in Negril. I don't know that I've ever seen anybody just go, I'm going to smoke four J's this hard straight. No rest. No break.

No days off. How old was he? Young. Okay. Early 20s. I mean, look, this guy loved weed is all I'm telling you. I would have, I kind of wanted to stop. I was fascinated by him

because you're stuck in line outside of the blue note. Like if you go to the second show, you got to get in line. It's come first serve seating so the line starts early but they don't let you in there and there's the vax card id deal which is fine you know it's all part of it and then your tickets so it i mean we stood outside i can't imagine there's any many performers christian scott may be the only guy man right now that i would stand outside and not move for an hour and a half to go in and watch while Bob Marley Jr. over here went just fucking...

He went fastest lap F1 style on these joints. And... I wish he got his number. I just wanted to ask him. Yeah. Walk us through your day. What do you do? How much do you like weed though? How much do you like weed though how much do you like

it and so when the line started moving he didn't move he wasn't even going to the fucking concert he just was like i'm there's a bunch of people here i'm gonna share all this pot and so that was um that was fascinating like i was glad he was there because there's a pretty boring line and i can only update you know and look at stupid shit I don't want to look at. You sit there and watch how people ruin eggs overseas when they cook them on Instagram. You can only watch that so many different times. So we get in there. The show was amazing.

I don't think Christian would be upset that I'll share this because it happened in front of everybody. But it was an all-timer move by this woman. He gets done. I mean, he's a stud. He's an absolute stud on stage. I love their music. And maybe I'll post something. I took a video of it.

I posted on Twitter. Nobody seemed to care. I mean, I'll post it on Instagram. Arts Your Crew over there. That stuff doesn't play on Twitter. Yeah. It doesn't play. Hey, greatest band in the world.

Here you go. Here's a clip. Zero. You can see the Beatles live reincarnated. Zero. Zero interaction. flip zero you can see the Beatles live reincarnated and zero interaction you know you know instead it's like is is Nico Harmon a two thoughts like thousand

thousand fucking responses start one bench one sit one or whatever the game is oh there was a new one I saw the other day tackle one block one defend and be like stop just stop them all because the cut the start bench cut thing

is like whenever it's like oh i guess i'll just cut larry bird then it's a dumb exercise it's just so anyway he gets done he's saying goodbye to everybody you know they had a six night run at the blue note and um some woman who was maybe the most attractive woman in the entire place just walks up, hands him her phone number in front of the entire audience. Just a little piece of paper, hands it to him out the door. I was like, man, that is a baller move. And he's kind of like, all right, everyone just saw this. So now, like, what am I?

He just took the piece of paper and put it behind him. And that's that. Because what's he supposed to do? Be like, hey, look at me. This was awesome. So anyway, it got done. Kind of dropped around a little bit. Neighborhood, neighborhood. I did get off the train at one

point and I walked out to an intersection, pretty busy, like walking up towards 42nd. And I mean, it's kind of sad, but I'm just going to share it with you. Guy full blown on the corner of the street while cars were stopped in front of him going across like, right. So he's facing and they're going across him, but they're stopped at a light. He's just, he just whips it out, takes a takes piss and there was a thought to take a picture of it because it could have been like there was just all these horrified faces of families looking out their windows watch a guy just whip it out piss in front of him um and to be delicate i don't think that he was on his way

to finalize some of his mortgage paperwork um but if you had taken the picture at the perfect time and then saw all the horrified faces of people watching this happen, I don't know if time would put it on the cover, but it may have won some awards. And then I go, you know what?

I don't feel like doing this. Maybe take it. I just, I thought the art of the, the symmetry of it all. The people's reaction. You don't need to see anything graphic. Just the people's reaction

is the best part of it. But that's the point that you say that because that reminds me like New York is simultaneously like the coolest and most disgusting place at the same time. It's amazing. And that's how... You can walk through like...

So you're right. Soho, it's amazing. It's almost like a different town in this little... In the city. You don't even feel like you're in the city sometimes. You cross over Houston and then you hit a weird stretch of bleaker

and it's five minutes away and you're exactly right. You're like, wait, what just happened? Did I not show my passport? I was there for the Knicks Magic game. What up, Magic? Shout out to MSG this season. What's up? Great game for you to be at. It was an awesome game. First MSG experience

seeing a Knicks game. And I'm walking through the streets or whatever. I'm like, yeah, this city is awesome, man. I don't know why I don't come here more often. And then you walk by and there's just like trash everywhere and some guy pissing on the side of the road. And you're like, oh, all right, maybe that's why. So yeah. I didn't actually want him pissing

in the... I just wanted the whole backdrop of the faces with his back to me. And then I go, you know what? I'm not going to... Because I don't know. I have kind of a hard time with the way I think society now just goes ahead films, literally everything that's happening. But that picture in the moment may have been something. All right. I have a little college football for you. You know, last year I did the big rant in the breakout video on the buyout numbers, right? Nebraska, Auburn, ahead of the list. Just, hey, let's hire this guy.

Like when you decide that you want to fire somebody and then he beats your rival and you're like, no, let's give him 60 million more. And then you're like, oh, we should fire this guy again. And that's what always bothers me is that I'm not,

as I've said every single time, I'm not somebody who, you know, I felt like I worked with a lot of people who didn't like sports towards the end of my time at ESPN. And there's a lot of people that didn't like college sports in particular. And if you want to tell me you hate the NCAA, okay. Although, to add to that, there have been times where I'm like, hey, the NCAA actually did a good job on this thing, and I've tried to bring that up

in other forums, and then you just get completely dumped on it, because it's like, oh, they should pay the players. Well, yes, they should pay the players. And the NIL thing is such a joke, because it's like, well, as long as it's not our money, that's fine. And then college football, college basketball, and the NCAA, same, because they have to cover the cost of so many other things, saying,

well, there's just not enough money. There's not enough money. That's fine. All right. If today there's not enough money and the playoff numbers are going to triple the But there can be some way to maybe even combine that with teaching financial, just upping everyone, all of us, not just athletes. All of us need to be taught financial rules a lot earlier in life. Like a lot of the stuff that we teach, man, it's not as practical. All of us need more financial intelligence across the board earlier. I mean, this ship should be having a grade school. And I think there's some way

to figure out some way of taking in so much more of this money and having that be a part of the college process, which also gets the players from revenue generating sports more money. But then they're going to throw Title IX back at us and say that's another reason why they can't do it. All right, so fine.

The reason I bring it up is I saw a bottom line. Hugh Freeze, $4 million a year. Fucking Liberty. Hugh Freeze, $4 million a year. Hugh Freeze at Liberty. Does anyone think that's insane? Now, if that's what it costs and that's the business that you're in, that part I get. And I know that none of the Hugh Freeze stuff matters if you can dial them up. All right. We don't have to get in any Hugh stuff. And that's not even what I'm doing here. This isn't even an anti-Hugh Freeze thing. What I'm talking about is

that the Liberty head coach gets a new deal. By the way, he got a new deal last year. This deal takes him through 2028, where he's going to average over $4 million a year for the next seven years. That's what the head coach of Liberty's football program is going to make. Now, good for him, you know, whatever. But that's the number that I look at and go, are you still going to tell me there's not enough money? Are you still going to tell the athletes in basketball and football that there's not enough money when you see that kind of stuff? The coaching money right now, I looked it up again.

In 2021, you had $7 million coaches. You had nine $7 million coaches. 2016, there was one, and it was really zero. Harbaugh made $9 million in 2016, but his average annual salary was below that. So in just five years, we've gone to maybe one slash zero coaches over $7 million to nine. That number is going to jump. The Hugh Freeze number tells me if he can make $4 million at Liberty, which I think is as much or more than five coaches in the SEC, that we are going to, on the next TV deal, see a monstrous, monstrous jump in coaches' salaries

because they're not putting the money anywhere else other than facilities and their own administrative costs because they keep hiring more and more administrators at all these universities, which is also another reason why your tuition keeps going up. There's some other stories with the coaching stuff. We're like like Scott Frost, yeah, I know Nebraska's

three and eight. They're better. I know they've lost five in a row. Look at those games. Look at how they've competed. Like he's actually done something even though three and eight

doesn't sound that great. And I know you're not going to play in any bowl games this year. Not get in a bowl games that you want. But if Scott Frost is happy at Nebraska and Nebraska, although disappointed,

is still happy that they have Scott Frost, they don't want to do some sort of buyout. Good. Good for everybody. It's Jim Harbaugh, who I get it. Nine million that one year in 2016. Who's got it better than us? Shit. All that. Look at me. Look at the approach, which you get real quiet when it starts to not work. Well, look at him again. This is the third time since Harbaugh has been at Michigan 2016, 2018 and now 2021,

where they're in the playoff mix very late in the season. Is it in the playoffs? No. Is it beating Ohio State? No. I get all of that. He's 59-23 at Michigan. He can't beat Ohio State. Guess what? Michigan beat Ohio State before Harbaugh, all right?

So if Harbaugh can take a pay cut with incentives, and he's happy and they're happy, and he's not abrasive and driving everybody crazy like he does at a lot of other places where he runs out of time, then I'm cool with it. I mean, look at some of the Texas stuff. I know it's a disaster this year. It's Sark's first year. But can you simultaneously hate Tom Herman, make fun of Texas for paying all the buyout to Herman and his staff, and then also get on their ass for paying Sark this much and being bad this year? Because I've seen some college football writers do it.

You did it. You pulled it off. But I don't know. Can we give it a year? And that's why it's so crazy about even the Mullen stuff we talked with Bruce Feldman. Now, if you're going to throw recruiting at me, I can't win that argument. And you win about why Mullen is out of Florida. But to the point where guys can't even have a bad year on top of this, and I'll get to the point, is that you keep paying them more and more because of all the tv money that you don't have to share and now you're like well whatever just fire

them and we'll just do the buyout and the buyouts that money's you know depending on what stories you hear i've heard about buyout stories down south where they just go all right the buyouts 15 million for this guy all right let's call up the boosters, pass the hat, a million apiece, get them out because the boosters are just fans with huge checkbooks, right? But we are now at a number here over the last decade. The reported number is $533 million

in buyouts paid in just 10 years. All right, and that number's actually lower than it really is because there's some numbers that the study on ESPN.com couldn't pull up. Auburn's buyout with Malzahn was 21 million last year and eight and a half to his assistants right after they had done an extension, I think two years prior. And even their own, I think it was the president of the school was like, yeah, this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous. We have to keep doing this stuff stuff so the salary is going to keep going up

because you're going to see a huge tv bump and i just think that anybody this isn't even about hugh freeze it's about liberty having it on the bottom line that we're paying our football coach this program which is again going to a bigger conference four million dollars a year and we're all like oh yeah that, that makes sense. Hey, schools wasted over a half a billion dollars on paying guys that they got rid of. And some of it's contractual

and how the agents have these administrators. I mean, they got no chance. This is like the early arbitration stuff with baseball in the 70s and 80s where you had agents with these massive preparation

going against these front office guys that didn't even know what the hell was going on. And the players, even when they lost in arbitration, were winning. This is an absolute financial free-for-all. And I think it actually speaks to how desensitized we all are to it now that the Liberty head coach making $4 million plus a year is just like,

oh, yeah, you did an extension? Seven years? Oh, that's cool. Because he can dial them up. We wanted to name the NFL players that are guys that are like, hey, I need to turn on the TV and watch this person. And it was crazy to think how few running backs we even named. And in your era and growing up,

everybody, all we cared about were the running backs. Like, yeah, we love some of the receivers, but it was always running backs. And you just gave me this look like, wait, are you dissing running backs here now? Great, great way to intro me in here. But it's weird. Like when you see the game,

can a running back dominate a season? Can he carry a team? And we've seen it with Derrick Henry, maybe Adrian Peterson years ago. But can we really see enough running backs consistently carry a team offensively the way guys did in your era? The answer is yes, you can.

The challenge is if you're an offensive coordinator or if you're a head coach, they don't have patience now. I mean, this is not the era of let's be patient. Let's get into a game. Let's establish the running game. Let's, you know, let's try to go in there and just wear a team out. It's not. It's all about scoring points now. And I can't blame them because the rules of the past game has allowed teams

to feel comfortable throwing a ball. Quarterbacks can't get a hit. Guys can run right over the middle. And shots that when I played, you ain't coming across that middle making that catch. But now they can do it. And then you talk about the lack of, okay, practice, right? It takes a lot to establish a run game. I mean, it takes a lot of man hours to have 11 guys constantly going through repetitions to try to get that run game going with fits and, you know, different types of things that you need to have working running a football.

So, no, it's not the't know if the organizations have patience. And they just don't go to the running game as much as they used to. So I tell you what, man, I'm glad I'm not playing today. I can tell you that right now. Because if I'm playing today, I'm not getting the necessary carries that I had when I was playing. And you need those carries to make an impact. You need those carries to wear a impact you need those carries to wear a defense down um to be able to set things up early in the game so then later in the game you

can you know allow allow the game to kind of feel like where you just own somebody man like you just you taking somebody's will and they're not doing that now no I love the answer because that's kind of what I wanted to ask like is it a choice or is it by design? And clearly, there are times where I go, all right, I remember some of the NFC offenses that I would watch as a kid and be like, run, run, third and long, punt. You just go like, is that the best way to do it all the time? And obviously, some of the numbers are telling you,

throw it on first down, throw it on first down. But I also, is this fair? They used to throw out four linebackers that were 270 plus back in the day, too. Like LeVon Kirkland, right? Well, Kirkland, 270 on no chance. Oh, he couldn't play today. He couldn't play today. He couldn't play in today's football.

I mean, he wouldn't have a down. Like, what down would you bring him in? He'd be an edge guy on, like, third. Yeah, I don't know if you can put him at edge i mean levi you have to put him down into the three technique or something like that yeah i guess i guess you would you wouldn't have him he could never play nose tackle in the traditional sense but you're i always wondered if they thought like hey part of the lack of running attack too and and you're right everything you said the lack of patience the the ocs no one

comes in being like hey we have this awesome zone blocking scheme and we're just running inside traps all day long nobody gives like that that guy doesn't get hired but i think you have quicker certainly smaller um athletes you just better athletes all over the field now defensively too yeah that's we were talking about that the other day we were uh we were talking about like positions that are like you know extinct Think about, you just talked about it, that linebacker who had the neck roll, the 255 guy that was just stiff, and he was a run stopper. His job was to go in there and just plug the A-B gap, hit the fullback right in his mouth,

push him back into the lap of the halfback. He's gone. He's nowhere to be found. And even some safeties. I think about the safety. There used to be strong safeties that were guys who were just box safeties. They had no coverage skills. They can't play in today's football. You have to be able to have possession. Like you said, speed is what they're looking for. Now, you look at the linebackers like Levante David, you look at the Devin Whites. Those guys can fly.

And if you can come in on first down, yeah, you're not seeing a fullback anymore. That's the other guy who's gone. There is no fullback. How many teams carry a fullback? Probably six. Yeah. So will that play him?

You're right. I mean, it's not many. They may have him on the roster, but he's not out there getting any status. He's going to be inactive most weeks because you can't use him. And I always thought that right now would be a real good opportunity for some teams because everybody has the very light linebackers, right? They have the 220-pound linebackers. Right now, go against the grain.

You bring in that big old fullback. You get the two tight ends. You get a back like Derrick Henry. A lot of teams can't line up and match that every week because they don't have the personnel to match it. But I do like what Tennessee's done. But here's the other thing, too. Think about this.

And this started to happen when I was playing, too. They started to go into the two and three back kind of platoon and rotation because of what – think about what Derrick Henry just did. So Derrick Henry is not there. They don't have another back like Derrick. So you have this huge void and setback that changes your entire offense. You know, when Emmett and I was playing with Barry and all the guys and Marshall and all the really good running backs. Yeah, they were, they were highly paid running back, but But but there was nothing behind them.

So what they're doing now is they're saying, OK, we don't want to get the the high end running back. We'll take two and three guys whose whose salary is probably less than that high end running back. And then just have a kind of a rotation where everybody's fresh. We're not counting on one guy. If he gets hurt, oh, well, we're bringing another guy. And his loss isn't felt as deep. And so I see a lot of teams going with that philosophy. And it's working for some teams. When I, you know, I love college ball.

And, you know, you'll see guys put up numbers. And again, we've seen the transition in the college game as well. The lack of importance where you could just have a college running back who carried his team for an entire season. And now, I don't even know if that's possible. It can happen, but you know what I'm talking about. Back in the day, you would just have guys end-to-end, unstoppable.

But then they get to the pros, and it's just not there. Can you see the difference? I'm sure you can. So I'm going to ask you the difference that you see. Where it's somebody comes in that fourth, fifth rounder, he's in camp. Granted, you were sixth rounder. We'll get to that.

But you're like, all right, you put up some numbers. You're going to get a handful of carries. You're going to be in a three-man rotation. You might be the third back. Whereas somebody like Jonathan Taylor, who is doing what he's doing right now for the Colts, some historic stuff. We all liked him in college. The pros

probably didn't evaluate him as somebody that could carry a team. Maybe that's the lack of importance on that. When you see the difference between, hey, nice college career, but 15 carries a week, and that's what I'm saying now in today's NFL where for you it would have been 25, but 15 carries a week and somebody that you can really go to, what do you see as the difference

between those two kinds of players? You mean the college player who was like like like just somebody like jonathan taylor who is is on a run here or any of the great running backs were the other guy that just you kind of like you know whether it's somebody you had in camping years in denver or just watching somebody on a sunday we're like yeah nice player nice college career i'm not even asking for names. But what is that difference? Because I think those of us from the outside go, hey, this great this guy was so great in college and it's just not going to happen for him in the NFL.

What separates productive college running back and somebody who can actually be a number one running back in an NFL team? There's a lot of variables. I mean, college is a different game altogether. You can go to college and your offensive line could be just totally just better than everybody. Right. I mean, you go to, you know, let's say Alabama. I mean, hell, their offensive line, probably a lot of first round picks. So every Saturday you're lining up, you probably have the best line. So you have that. You have some guys just peak early.

Some guys just at a high school, they come to college and they found their groove. They found that the rhythm of the office that they're in, the system they run. And then they're able to just really have this exceptional college career. And then they go to the pros. And it's not like you. It's not a continuation. And it's not like you, it's not a continuation. If you mentally, if the best backs that I've seen, they've taken the approach of, I'm not going to go to the pros and just pick up where I left off in college.

I have to reset and learn, basically learn again and to become a really good running back. And I've seen that with the good ones. The good ones go into the pros and say, I mean, they come in humble they work hard they study hard but i think the most important thing if you come in as a highly touted college player is don't put pressure that you have to start off your pro career like you finished your college career and i see too many of them doing that meaning they assume first year they gotta rush for 1500 yards

they gotta have like they want instant gratification instant success the fans do too so if you're um a fan of whatever team and you bring in like Jonathan Taylor came in his first year I love what they did with him he split time with Marlon Mack he was not the starting running back he's they split time with him so it allowed him to get comfortable allowed him not to have all this pressure to try to match what he did at Wisconsin. And now he's starting to get his groove, starting to figure things out. And the boy's balling right now. But when I saw guys like Kajana Carter come out, he had a lot of pressure. I mean, he had to produce immediately. So those guys come out, that's the thing they're dealing with. For me, I was me I was easy man listen if I had a two-yard run that was a plus if I had a three-yard run I was a six-round

draft pick I had I had no expectations so I was able to grow at on my own pace and no one everything I did was now if I was a first-round draft pick what I did my rookie year would probably wouldn't have been enough they would have like oh man it's dude we paid all we have we got him in the first round top five pick and that's all he did was a thousand yards you know I'm saying so it's weird how they are they're faced with a whole different level of scrutiny than somebody coming in like me who was a six round draft pick and I enjoyed my role. I enjoyed coming in there flying underneath the radar and just kind of allowing myself to grow and not feeling like I had to live up to the public's expectation

of what I was doing. And it didn't work for me. So let's go back to that then. You end up being a Hall of Famer, one of the great you know four-year runs we've ever seen the playoff run that first year just unbelievable like why were you a six-rounder oh yeah so well i was a six-rounder for a well production college career man you know you can we we go... Let me jump in before that

because just so people understand, you know, we've got some younger audience here. You were at Long Beach before you went to Georgia. So I had totally forgotten this and maybe I'm lying a little bit because I may not have even remembered. I forgot that George Allen,

the great Hall of Fame coach, coach George Allen for those that don't remember like the old Washington head coach was just had these speeches you get super emotional it's all this NFL film stuff from from decades and decades ago he was just what living in Palos Verdes and just said yeah I guess I'll coach Long Beach for a year and that was your second year there or first year I forget what it was it Beach for a year. And that was your second year there or first year. I forget what it was. It was my first year. What was that like? Because you guys had to have been like, wait, what's going on?

Well, I didn't even know who George Allen was. I mean, no, you know, I didn't. I just, you know, I didn't follow pro ball. And I was actually being recruited by Long Beach State. And then mind you, out of high school, I got no scholarship offers, zero. Like no one gave me. And that's a bigger story because in high school, I played nose guard. I played fullback.

I played all over the place except running back. And so I didn't get a lot of offers to a lot of schools. But my brother was at Long Beach State, and he was there playing for the football team. And so when they got George Allen, my brother kind of told them, hey, there was a kid in San Diego who you might want to take a look at. Now, my brother's last name is Webb. And so they didn't connect the dots until later. And they when they came out and checked me out and, you know, at the time I was a fullback and I was a very physical fullback at one hundred and ninety pounds. I just love to run to people. So I was blocking a lot. I was pretty good at running with the football as well. So anyway, they they told me that if I came up and I worked hard that, you know, I can earn a scholarship, but I had to walk on.

So I did that my first year walking on a long beach state. And and then George Allen loved me, man. He was he was when I met him. You can just tell. Like, you know, of course, I know I had no experience with other college coaches, but there was something different about him. He was 72 years old. He was an older, older man. Yeah, he was 71, 72. He was old, but he had a way of he was more of a teacher and everything he did. He was very involved with the he was a defensive coach and so when i when they put me on a scout team i became like his his buddy like he he loved me because i was i was giving the defense the business and they hated that and he loved that about me that i never eased up on the defense and so he used to call me secretariat man he's like secretary that's great

like you keep doing that um but yeah he was he was such a really good coach man and um and the first time i had really had any idea or the first thought in my head about the nfl came one day because george would have all these scouts at our practice he would you know they would all come up there to the practice and after practice um one of the coaches, my running backs coach, told me his name was Harvey Hyde. He said, hey, one of the scouts was asking about you. And I'm a redshirt freshman. I'm not even playing.

And I was like, wow, man. And that was the first time I ever connected the dots that, you know, that the NFL could be possible is when he told me a scout had inquired about me and he's, and he told this guy that I was just a red shirt freshman, but I was like, damn it. But scout asked him about me. I ended up in the NFL. That's, you know, that's pretty damn cool. So that was, that was kind of the first time I thought about that. Unfortunately that year we went six and five. I was on the scout team. And then it last game of the year, we,

we gave the, you know, the customary Gatorade shower. I didn't give it to him, but one of our teammates did. And George Allen caught pneumonia, man. And four weeks later, he passed away. And it was it was like, wow, you know, because his vision for Long Beach, you can kind of see it unfolding where we were getting more more attention. Long Beach, you can kind of see it unfolding where we were getting more, more attention. And we had, we had the biggest attendance in the football game since, you know,

probably in the eighties. Now, mind you, we only had a 5,000 seat stadium, right? So what, we had half this, it was at, at, at Memorial stadium at the bed stadium in Long Beach. So half the stadium is got bleachers, the other half, nothing. So we weren't playing in very big crowds. But he really, just kind of watching him, how he went about his business and how he coached, man, he was really inspirational.

I kind of likened him to Mike Shanahan, how they operate. And he was able to get the best out of you, was able to inspire you with, like you said, all his quotes and stuff. And yeah, he was a fantastic coach. So I know that's kind of the legend. Did Allen die because of the Gatorade bath? From what I know is after that day,

he caught pneumonia and he never recovered. So I'm not saying that the, that the, that the Gatorade did it, but most people are saying that's what happened. I didn't do it. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I noticed, I noticed you've distanced yourself from the act. I was, I was in the stands that day and it was i mean here's the deal it was like cold you know it's like 50 degrees it was raining it was you know it was wet like why would you do that to my man like you know why would you do that yeah because then he died i mean because i knew i

knew that he had died because he was he was living in the area and that was it and so all right um i don't there's a lot of emotions swirling around in the aftermath of that story. So you make it out to Georgia. Your second year, you put up some numbers. And then a bit of like, I think you're 800 yards. Your second year there, 500. So that is just a lack of production. Because, I mean, what were your numbers?

Your physical stuff had to be pretty good. I mean, let's get back to the sixth round part with Denver. Yeah. Well, here's what happened. So when I got the loan. I got to Georgia. They had a Garrison Hurst was starting running back there. And so I was like, you know, pretty long a depth chart, six or seven.

Then I worked my way up to be, you know, competing with Garrison. Not really. He was the start. I wasn't going to beat him out, but I became his backup. And I was like the perfect scenario for me. Think about this. I go from Long Beach State to Georgia. You're talking about a whole different world, right? So you go from Long Beach State,

no fans, no nothing, no media, no, I mean, just you can do whatever you want to do in Long Beach State. No one gives a damn. You go to Georgia, on the other hand, it's a whole different ball game. So first year I was comfortable because I was behind Garrison. I came in there, ran the ball. You know, I get five, six carries a game. I go in there, do my thing. I'm good. Well, Garrison leaves the next year. And I remember going through the off season and they would have all the, like the, the, the SEC papers and the magazines and stuff. I'm on the cover of a lot of these things. Cause I'm the next, I'm the next great Georgia running back. And I'm on the cover of a lot of these things because I'm the next great Georgia running back. And I'm seeing all this, and I'm like, damn, I'm not ready for that. I'm not ready for it.

I'm not. I'm going to be honest with you, man. I'm not ready for that. I did not want that attention. I didn't want to be considered or have the pressure of being the next great back. And that's what happened. or have the pressure of being the next right back. And that's what happened.

So I remember being in the game and I'd have a, you know, I'd play, but I'd play just good enough to where hopefully I don't have a big game so that I don't have to do the same thing the next week. You know what I'm saying? Like it was just weird. It was weird. And then so really when you're not out there just giving it to y'all and you're worried about next week and stuff like that, I was setting myself up for failure.

And even though I had a decent season my junior year, the first couple of games, I think I was probably leading the SEC in rushing the first couple of weeks. But we weren't winning games, though. And so they kind of switched the offense. We had Eric Zaire as our quarterback. You know, we were losing games, and I just wasn't Garrison. They wanted me to be Garrison.

I wasn't Garrison. You know, I was a chain mover. I'm a four- or five-yard dude. My running style was different than Garrison's. And so they changed the offense. We became mainly a passing offense. And I think part of it was because eric zire was really a quarterback and he was a heisman trophy uh candidate and they wanted to get

him the ball more and so that's what happened so we went from that my junior year and that was the beginning of kind of my college career to where i didn't get the ball a lot i didn't play um i didn't play a lot then Then injuries started to come in. I got injured my senior year where I missed five games. You know, so when I started to do all that, it just became just an average, probably a below average college career at that point. So, you know, and even, like I said,

my junior year with all the stuff that happened, I even saw where I was projected to go pretty high in the draft. But this was my, you know, before my junior year. After that, it went downhill pretty fast, man. So that was that was why I got drafted in the sixth round. I just production wasn't there. I was injured. And then I think really for me, it was just I wasn wasn't ready for, I wasn't ready for, for, I wasn't ready for the big time. I mean, that, that, that bothered me that, uh, you're in this kind of fishbowl. Every time something happens, you hear about it on

campus, you know, you see it in the campus papers, radio, whatever it is. And I just, I wasn't, I wasn't ready for all that. Was there a time, was there a time walking around on campus? You were like, I don't know. Like, I don't, I don't know if I want to do this because it seems like you're even going back remembering how kind of like, you know, emotional you might've been about it. Like what, what was there one moment that you can remember in particular,

walking around that campus? No, I mean, it's a lot of them. I mean, my whole my whole I would my my in my middle or junior season or year pretty much through most of my senior year. Football was not even, you know, that wasn't even an option. Like I was like, this ain't, this ain't gonna work. This ain't gonna work. I wasn't having fun at the, at that time. You know, it was just, it was work. I wasn't getting along with the head coach there at the time, Ray golf. And I, we didn't see eye to eye. So it was, it was really, man, most,

it was like rock bottom. You know, it was just the worst time I've ever had as far as playing football. I've never, I don't remember going through a stretch of football where I hated football. And I did. I did that. But let me tell you when it all changed, where it all turned around. I got injured, and like I said, I missed five games.

And so I had a chance to sit in the bleachers to watch us play a game. I didn't go to most games, but that first time I wanted to go to a game and the coach was like, nope, you can't. Most times you can go on the sideline. He put me up. He wouldn't let me be on the sideline. So I'm sitting there watching the Georgia-Vanderbilt game and in the stands with the fans.

I'm like, you got to be kidding me, man. But the game, you know what it did? I don't know what it was, divine intervention. I don't know. But it gave me a different perspective. I'm watching us play the game, and I just asked myself internally. I was like, man, you know, I only have probably four more games left. That's it in my life. I have four more college games.

And after that football was done and it just, it just dawned on me. I was like, I said, well, I asked myself, I said, was I giving the game all I had when I played it? And the answer, I was like, no, I wasn't like I didn't. And so I was like, now basically talking to myself, you have four more games and that's it. So you got to make the both the, you know, the best of these four games, go back to the kid that you, that enjoyed the game at Pop Warner, the kid that enjoyed it in high school. I had to find that dude. And I couldn't care about nobody else. I couldn't

care about how many yards I rushed for. I didn't give a damn. And I'm telling you, it was like a light switch. And I said, when I get back, if I'm able to get back next week and I have four more games, if I get back two more weeks, I have two more, whatever it is, it didn't matter. I need to walk off this field and be able to answer that question that I asked myself and be honest and say, did I give the game all I had? And that's the only thing I want to do is leave Georgia, did I give the game all I had? And that's the only thing I want to do is leave Georgia saying, I left the game and I gave it all I had. That was it. That was the only thing in my head because I couldn't live with that. That's too many people that I know now. And they come up to me all the time and they, man, I should have would have

killed it. Yeah, I could have been this. I could have been a good running back. I should have been that. No, I don't. I'd never want to live in that world if I should have, would have, could have. And so that was my only thing, man, was just, I just wanted to go play and say, when I walked off and it's senior day and my mom shows up and I walk up to Georgia for the last time, that was it. Now, when I returned, man, it was a different dude. It was a different dude. You can go watch the tape. It was a different dude. So I came back.

Now, when I came back, Hines Ward was the starting running back. And Hines was doing really well. So in practice, they put me at fullback. And so I'm practicing fullback, and I'm also doing scout team. me at fullback and so i'm practicing fullback and i'm also doing scout team and i'm just going a hundred miles a minute on full as a fullback as a scout team running back and it is getting the attention of the running backs coach officer coordinator head coach so about a week of me going just completely out of control actually two weeks because I played in two games like that. They came to me and said, all right, we want you to be, you know,

I basically want to start a running back job back from Heinz Ward. Now, we're playing Auburn this week. Auburn's on a 24-game, some ridiculous win streak. They hadn't lost a game. We're playing them at Auburn. And now it's my turn. Now it's the spotlight that I was like, I didn i didn't i didn't want that spotlight before but it was crazy man i embraced it that week like like i was like okay i want people to know that this game is going down and uh and i'm about to ball this week you know i mean

like i just my confidence level just shot through the roof and i was like man i just got to be the dude that i was before i got to georgia like i I wasn't a confident guy when I got to Georgia. When I was at Long Beach, I was in high school, I was confident. And I just kind of got that back. And that game, I had the best game that I had as a college player. And then the next week we played Georgia Tech and I had the second, probably those two games are the two best complete games that I played as a college athlete. And I was done, Ryan. I was done. Like, that was it. I had accomplished what I set out to do,

was walk off the field and say, did I give the game all I had? And the answer was yes. And that was it. That was unbelievable. I can't even fathom today in the SEC being like, all right, you're a scratch. You got to go sit in stance.

As if any program would want anyone to be in the stance in a game today. Okay, how different was a John Elway to sixth round pick Terrell Davis as opposed to the end of the year? You know, he might have been like, hey, Tony, nice to meet you. And then after the end of the year, you're the leading rusher for the team. And I was looking at the numbers, too. Like, he threw it 540 times. And then those numbers started to go down significantly over the four years

as the year went up. What was that relationship like from, hey, nice to meet you, to, okay, we've got something here? Well, you know, I didn't work with John during training camp. You know, John's working with the ones, or he didn't practice. And I'm working with, you know, third-string he didn't practice. I'm working with third-string quarterbacks. No, I'm working with quarterbacks who aren't even going to be on the roster.

Game one, who do we have? At the time, he made it, but it was like Bill Musgrave. It was Hugh Millen. I think Jeff came in the next year. I was working with guys like that.

And then finally work with I didn't work with John until after the Tokyo game is when I made the special teams. That's how I ended up getting my spot was I went out on special teams kickoff and our preseason game in Tokyo, Japan. I made a pretty good hit on special teams. And it just got the attention of everybody. Before that, I wasn't getting anything. I was just kind of watching and taking mental notes. And I was getting frustrated and all that stuff. And I actually thought about quitting again because I felt like they were

going to cut me anyway. And then I made that tackle, and that just got the attention of everybody, man. And that was kind of the first time John was like, all right. they put me in the game i you know ran the ball a few times nothing nothing special about 40 yards rushing on eight about eight attempts and every week man they started putting me in more stuff they put me on kickoff return they put me on you know i did punt i was on everything as well as being a running back and so i just uh i just man i just i really just started to enjoy it man like i'm a football player like i'm not i'm not a running back i don't consider myself a running back i'm a football player like i love the game put me you put me

anywhere i'm a i'm a ball that's the way i feel and so when i started taking on that mentality of man they put me a fullback i'm a block man you put me a receiver i'm a you know i'm a catch and do what i gotta do and then as we started going through training camp elway the first time i actually practiced with john i remember this man they because john didn't you know he didn't play a lot of preseason games but then the first first week we're playing the bills mike calls me into his office first week and tell me that you know know, hey, tells me he asked me, really, how would I like to be the start of the Broncos? I was like, man, are you are you crazy, though? Like, you know, because I think I was going to be starting. I knew I knew I was making the team because I was getting more reps, but I didn't I wouldn't trip off to start. And so that day I go out to practice and I'm in I'm in the practice in the huddle with John Elway.

to practice and I'm in, I'm in the practice in the huddle with John Elway. So first play we get is a, it's a 19 handoff. John comes back, hands me the ball and I fumble it. And I picked the ball up and I, you know, you have to run 40 yards down the field. I run down the field. I'm like, dang, I thought, I thought I just messed that up, man. I was like, cause that's the one dude I can't, you know, I got to try to impress him. I got to try to, you know, get his respect. And as I'm running back to the huddle, I see John talking to our offensive coordinator, Gary Kubiak.

He's talking to him, you know, behind the play. And so Kubiak walks over to me, tells me to come over, and I go over there. I'm like, oh, shit. And he says, hey, John says to give him a bigger pocket next time. I was like, oh. I said, oh, okay, all right. So it was, you know, I'm kind of nervous because this is John Elway, bro.

You know what I'm saying? So I got to make sure I'm doing things right so I get his respect. But yeah, but John was cool, man. John was really cool. He was not, he was so important, man. I don't think people realize he was so important. I don't think people realize he was so important in my development and allowing me to come along.

And I keep talking about this and I stress this to anybody is how you bring somebody along is so important in their development and how they're going to hit the top. I've seen it too many times. And being there not only with John, having mike shanahan having gary kubiak having our running backs coach bobby turner i mean i couldn't have been placed in a better situation we were it was a new coaching staff they didn't have they had incumbent running backs but they also were open to competition and i that's all anybody can ask. Allow me to allow me to compete. And so when I was able to compete, it was, you know, it was clear after a while that I was going to be able to outwork. And I always felt like no one can outwork me. You might be faster than me. You might be taller, whatever, stronger. But when it comes to work, whether it's true or not,

it didn't matter. It didn't matter. That's the way I felt. And I was able to go through. But yeah, John was cool. He was a good coach. I mean, good quarterback. He was a coach, too. That first Super Bowl run, I mean, you know, look, your fourth year in, 2,000 yards, 21 TDs. You're the best running back in the league.

And yet, you know, we still weren't sure. I remember, like, I'll never forget where I was. I was in college. I bet Green back in the league and yet you know we still weren't sure i remember like i'll never forget where i was i was in college i bet green bay in the super bowl i bought into the whole defensive line out outweighing the offensive line thing and i mean they were they were favorites in that thing and the total sucker bet got that one wrong um and you tore it up you tore it up that was like what 13 points man or 14 it was it was i just i remember looking at the app you know because this is me in college i'm a genius with this stuff i'm looking up everything and i'm like oh yeah that defensive line completely outweighs those guys and then that was actually the reason

why it didn't work is because they were just too big and the way you blocked them and everything else i mean it was just it was they were tired i thought they were going to wear you out and it was the total opposite so i was like genius I'll never forget because my friends ended up inviting people over to have a party and I'm losing my shirt. And for me as a college kid, losing that much money at the time was a big deal. Yeah. Like girls started throwing on music at our house and I was like, can we turn off the fucking music please?

And I went upstairs into my room to just lick my wounds. Again, I'm sure you're not going to share that story with your buddies, but you told a story when you were talking to Aqib Talib because we had Aqib on and I thought it was really funny how certain guys the next year when you beat Atlanta really bad in the Super Bowl but

Minnesota was 15-1 that year and they had lost on the last second field goal in overtime to Atlanta to not be there. Everybody loved Minnesota that season because they just were going off. Were there guys on Denver that didn't want to play Minnesota? Because that was kind of something that you and Aqib had touched on,

how there'll be some personalities in the locker room like, hey, kick it off. I don't give a shit. And then other guys being like, no, don't really want to play those guys. If anybody tells you that nonsense about playing a team that you know is damn good, they're lying. And so, no, as a matter of fact, I just I do a little radio here in Denver with Big Al Williams, and he had just mentioned it the other day where he felt like he did not want to see the Vikings.

Now, I didn't go around polling people, but I can tell you the sense in that locker room was that we did not want to see the Vikings. Now, I didn't go around polling people, but I can tell you the sense in that locker room was that we did not want to see the Vikings. It's not that – here's the deal, too, right? It wasn't that we didn't think we could beat them, but we felt like that was going to be a hell of a fight. You just thought Atlanta was going to be a little easier. Oh, yeah. Like, why the hell would you – why would you want the Vikings?

Like, why – if you can pick two, right? You got the – and listen, no disrespect to the Falcons. No disrespect. But we would rather see them than see that damn Vikings team, period. Right? So, I mean – oh, yeah. And let me tell you what happened. So, when we were, you know, the AFC championship game,

NFC championship game, when that kick was, when they made the kick to beat the Vikings, we're in the locker room about to go out to play our game against the Jets. And the locker room went crazy. We went crazy. I mean, we screamed and yelled like we were Viking fans. And I mean, I mean, Viking fans. And man, we didn't even, our game wasn And man, we didn't even our game wasn't even we even start our game yet.

And we go to our game. We look up in the second, early third quarter. We're down 10 nothing. So we we we'd already started thinking about playing the damn Falcons when we, you know, we got the Jets right here that we got to take care of business. But no, that's real, man. That's real. No one wants to play.

Yeah, that's like, why would you want the path of most resistance? Who wants that path? Give me the path of least resistance. Well, what's funny about that, though, is you're right. It's 10 zip and you're a mile high. And it's a third quarter like you guys were so dismissive of the jets and so happy like it took you that what two plus hours to wake up and go let's start playing football here so we can actually go to the super bowl or what yeah you

know if you don't listen jets were a good damn good team uh i don't we weren't i don't know if we looked we didn't look past them preparing for them, but I think we got a little distracted. You know, I think, you know, once the Falcons won, you know, that was part of it. But then we went out there and then we were in a dogfight and then we weren't ready. You know, we just – we were in a dogfight that we just couldn't – you know, we were just getting beat up, man, period.

The Jets were – you know, fortunately, that game was weird because it was super windy. And the Jets had, I think they had four or five turnovers that game. They had a lot. You know, we were able to call some turnovers to get us back into the game. And then we eventually kind of ran away with it.

But they had us sweating big time. Yeah, they had six turnovers and you had zero. And you scored 23 straight. Yeah, that's scary. Because that was always one of those weird, um, that was just a really crazy, like Parcells team,

you know, Vinnie and, and you're like, wait, the jets are good. I just remember that whole year of being like, Oh, I guess that,

you know, every time they win, I'd be like, all right, I guess the jets are good. All right. Last, last thought on this one.

Um, and he went back to back super bowls, always 38, which is so funny. Cause as you get older, you're like, man, look how old Elway is. And now you think of it like, wait, he's like that much younger than I am now when he hung it up. Was there ever a conversation with him where you

felt like, and I'm sure you've probably told versions of this in the past, but I don't know if I'm really going for it, where there was hesitancy from him saying, you know what, maybe I'll come back. Did he ever talk with you about that that because it felt like everybody just thought he was gone and then when he announced everybody kind of knew but was there ever a moment maybe with you and him where you talked about coming back one more year no we we knew he had to watch him and how he was going through that year you know he struggled man he's. He's physically just, you know, he constantly, you know,

the thing that keeps a lot of players from continuing to play is not the game. It's preparing for it. If you're rehabbing something, you're constantly doing that 4 a.m., 5 a.m. in the training room, trying to practice. After practice, you're back in the training room. That takes its toll man i i went through that it was just it's brutal and then physically when you play and you're just not you know you're you're in constant pain um and you can tell he was just struggling man

you know physically but he you know but he he was a trooper he go out there and grind it out so i knew that was there was a possibility. I knew it was more highly possible that he wasn't coming back. We knew it. We knew this was his last thing. I was so hoping that he had a change of heart

after he left and had a few days, a few months to go get him. I was like, John, just give us a chance. No team has ever repeated let's just get it, let's give it a shot, you know, let's see if we can do it if we don't do it, then go ahead, man, then it's time to go ahead and walk, man, but yeah, he had to do what was right for him

and his family. You know what I always love about you, man, is that I never hear anybody say they don't like you. I'm serious it's rare, well, I don't know it's probably why they don't like me yeah, well, I that I never hear anybody say they don't like you. I'm serious. Oh, really? It's rare. Well, I don't know. It's probably why they don't like me. Yeah, well, I'm sure there's someone. But even as a player, as a player, there was

never ever a guy in the group, because we're close to the same age, so you would talk, just hanging out with your buddies, arguing on the couch. There was never anybody that was like, ah, Terrell Davis is overrated. Or like, oh, I don't like this guy. Now, there were arguments about the four years and then getting into the Hall of Fame, but it's

the four years. It's the two Super Bowls. So, you know, I understand that part of it. And whatever, man. This was a lot of fun and I really appreciate it. Before we let you go, I want to let you promo your drink, your recovery drink, Defy. I know you didn't ask to do that kind of stuff, but I know what you're doing. I know it's black-owned and I know it's woman-owned. I know it's't ask to do that kind of stuff, but I just, I know what you're doing.

I know it's black owned and I know it's woman owned. I know it's important to you. And you've talked a lot about the recovery part. So go ahead and give that a shot. Yeah, this is important, man. This is my project. I started a company called Defy, which is a performance brand.

You see me wearing a shirt right here, rocking it. Yep. And I have one of our drinks right here. This is a, it's called Boost. It's a caffeinated pre-workout drink. All of our stuff, we are a performance brand. And so we have all our products that are really, they all taste great, by the way. This is a phenomenal product. We have an alkaline water. We are 9.5 pH alkaline water. And then

we have a Recover, which is a CBD drink as well. So everything we do is meant to aid and help you physically, man, be the best you can be. It really changed my life, man. In 2017, I was beat up from all the playing the game and end up running across really researching and taking CBD. And I was like, wow, man, this thing has had an incredible impact on my life. And it allowed me to work out more, allowed me to be more active. It's really kind of was a game changer for me. And so, yeah, the company's called Defy. You can check us out at drinkdefy.com.

We're nationwide in the most grocery stores. We're in Sprouts. We're going to be in Target. We're in King Soopers. We're in Kroger Banners. So support it, man, because it's number one, the product is really good. It's tasty as hell and it really helps. If you want to get your workout on, and it's not

only just for working out. If you just want to get a little boost in your day, our drinks are really good for that. We also have muscle balms and we have tinctures and all the other stuff as well. We're fully integrated. We have other products that we're bringing out as well to, to, to get us, um, to really just focus on health and

wellness, man. That's really the big need for us. I'm, I'm just, I'm trying to, I'm trying to define my age, man. So it's, uh, it's challenging as hell, but it's, it's, it's fun. Well, that's you on the website, right? That is me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think you're doing all right. Uh, you can check that out. You can check that out at drinking if you don't anybody like men's fitness or men's health you know i want to i'm trying to i'm trying to my goal is to get on the cover of that magazine i'm sure you you got some connections there right right i'll try i've been i've been trying to get them to come to check out my home gym for for about year, but I got the wrong publicist, I think. Thanks a lot, man.

I really appreciate it. Anytime, brother. Thanks, man. Salute you. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. All right, life advice is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. All right, this is a big, I'm going to try to leave out the names here. Do the list. As much as I, well, I'm going to try to leave out the names. Google list. As much as I, well, I'm going to,

but all right. Um, our guys, five 11, two sport D three athlete, baseball, basketball, a definition of a lover boy,

comb over hairstyle. Where's the best to the bar? Oh, that's, that's the friend. What, what's the lover boy? Is that the front?

Is that the Bama bangs thing? IT is on it. So look, he reached out to me yesterday so we're getting we're getting a forward of a story of that's a friend of the email all right so he reached out to me yesterday one of the crazier stories i've heard for the first time i had no advice from big fan of the podcast so we reach out to you before i get to the story a little background oh we'll use the names mike for my buddy and Kelly for his girlfriend. All right, perfect. Okay.

He and his family went to an out-of-state wedding. All right, I'm going to name the state. And he was the best man for his best friend. So I received a phone call yesterday from Mike, which is a follow-up from the text I received Sunday morning saying, quote, oh man, do I have a story for you about the wedding last night? He starts out with, bro, Kelly completely embarrassed me and my family at my best friend's wedding this weekend, not to mention that I was the best man. So my first thought is, oh, I bet Kelly just got too drunk at the wedding and embarrassed herself, which we all know happens from time to time. So, of course, I asked Mike what happened.

Mike proceeds to tell me that towards the later hours of the reception, he noticed that Kelly was becoming a little too intoxicated to socialize at this point. Okay, it happens. So he offered to take her back to the hotel where he could put her to bed and enjoy the rest of the night with his buddies who also have been there. I remember one time I had to bring somebody from one side of town all the way back to the other side of town. And it took so long to do it that by the time I got back to all my buddies, everything was closed and they were walking outside being like, hey, we're going to go to bed because we want to save it up for tomorrow. And I spent an hour and a half going back and forth coordinating, taking care of somebody else. And boy, was I not happy. Okay. All right.

As Mike was beginning to take Kelly back to the hotel, his mother noticed the situation at hand and told Mike that he could take Kelly... Wait. His mother noticed the situation at hand and told Mike that she, is what I should say, she could take Kelly back to the hotel

so that he can enjoy the rest of the night with his buddies. Kelly must not have took that well and threw him any fit. Now Mike, his mother, and Kelly are walking across the street to the hotel where Mike calmed Kelly down, got her back to the hotel room with his mom. Mike gets back to the reception. He was maybe back at the reception for 20 minutes at this point. Mike noticed he has a missed call from Kelly's mom and a text saying, you need to get back to Kelly right now. Mike

now frantically leaves the wedding worried. When he makes it back to the hotel, he sees his mom in handcuffs by the town's police officers. Usually that's the way it would go. And Kelly hysterically crying, of course. Mike goes up to the officers to find out that Kelly had called 911 in the bathroom hotel saying she was

being held against her will by his mother. Apparently, um, he found out there was a physical altercation between his mother and Kelly where she hit her. Um, side note, this could not have happened to a nicer lady. So I feel bad hearing that this had happened to her. I can't, how is that written again? But it's the altercation between his mother and Kelly where she hit her. I can't, how is that written again? Altercation between his mother and Kelly where she hit her. It leads me to believe the mom may have hit the girlfriend. Yeah.

That's what my mom would have done, but I don't know if that's what exactly happened here. The way that's phrased, we're going with that one. I mean, she's the one in cuffs, right? So, all right,

Mike luckily explained to the officers the situation and the situation, uh, and was able to get his mom released from the handcuffs. Mike now got Kelly settled somehow in the room after going off on her about the situation and booking her under, uh, uh, booking her an Uber and the flight home for 6am the next morning. Wow. He just was like, you're getting an Uber and I'm changing your flight

move. That's a, that's a tough move. All right. So then he goes back to the wedding party. All right, Mike. Um, and everyone in the wedding party now knows that Mike's mom was just almost arrested across the street from the venue. Oh, wait, almost arrested. Oh, okay. But they don't, I'll just leave that out. Apparently the wedding party did know, but. But they don't... I'll just leave that out. Apparently, the wedding party did know, but even though they didn't know exactly why she was being arrested. The story has another turn.

Mike then proceeds to, out of spite, hook up with the groom's cousin. Wow. At the post-wedding party, after making a bet with another cousin for 50 bucks, saying he wouldn't be able to

after everything that just went down. Wait, somebody bet that Mike couldn't hook up with somebody there because of an arrest? If anything, that's an unbelievable opener. Like,

how's your night going? He knew Mike was pulling the ripcord at that point and he was like, giving him just a little bit of fuel. We could also sit there and say in today's climate,

maybe, you know, you're not supposed to bet 50, but here's the thing, is people do sketchy shit. All right, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to get real judgmental about this,

about it. But I can't believe somebody would say because of your mom almost getting arrested and your girlfriend being a disaster, everybody saw the sympathy play. There's all timer. I mean, that's, I agree.

That's what you just like that 50 bucks on fire. Unless Mike looks like Danny DeVito, but Danny DeVito does pretty well. So I, you know, I don't even know what to say on that. I don't know why I picked Danny DeVito. But Danny DeVito does pretty well. So I don't even know what to say on that. I don't know why I picked Danny DeVito, but you understand the point we're trying to make here. Shout out to Danny DeVito.

Bad bet by the other guy. So Mike hooks up with the groom's cousin. Mike wins the bet. This is confirmed by a text from the girl saying that her... Oh, so added to this, the girl that hooked up with Mike said that her father saw her doing the walk of shame in the morning at 7 a.m.

from one side of the resort to the other one. So life advice for Mike is now needed. He asked me where he goes from here. Mike's been dating Kelly for seven years. They currently live together. Just recently adopted a dog. He doesn't see how this relationship with Kelly and his family can ever be reconciled

after this past weekend. All right. Yeah. Here's the deal. Is this something that happened or is this the trend? If it's the trend and this is something that happens all the time... I remember being at a wedding with a buddy. And when I rolled in, it was a wedding out here on the West Coast years ago. And people were like, hey, just a heads up. This guy's new wife sucks. Don't sit near her. Don't let your girlfriend talk to her.

And then I had to tell my date. I was like, I guess. I don't know. I was like, I wasn't at that wedding. But this girl's apparently a disaster. She stole money from a poker game one night. Oh, I've heard about this one. Yeah.

She used to punch people in the crotch. She would get hammered and just punch you in the crotch and be like, Ew. And I think there's another rumor that she may have hooked up with someone else at her own wedding. So I don't really know. We don't know what to do with that last detail. It's since been divorced and no one cares about it.

But it was a real wild card, to put it lightly, at this wedding. So I'm asking, in this case, do you think Kelly, is this a habitual thing with her or is it a one-off or she had a bad night? That's a very, very important part of this whole deal. Now, the mom part, some people would take that really seriously. Some people would be like, hey, you got into this altercation with my mother. My mother almost got arrested because you're a fucking mess. And you know what?

There's no repairing this. I can understand and respect the person that says that's it. That's a non-starter for me. I also can understand that there's other people that have a higher level of tolerance of bullshit. I always think that because of, you know, bartending and all that kind of stuff where I feel like I've had people apologize to me for stuff and I'm just like, I don't, I don't care.

Like, I just don't care. I'm not, I'm not going to worry about it. Now, if you're doing it all the time and you're always a bummer to hang out with, then that's a completely different deal.

And you cut those people out. But in this case, you're living with her. You bought a dog, you cheated on her. Your mom almost got arrested because of the whole thing. We're checking a lot of bad boxes here. So, I mean, this doesn't sound great

unless you can tell me that this is a completely isolated incident and you still really care about this person. I would say I probably wouldn't tell the truth on this one. I don't think you would want to add to everything that else happened. You cheating on her probably can't be justified by her actions, but I can understand in the moment that it definitely made it easier to go through the rational,

to rationalize the whole thing. Like, you know what? I actually deserve this. Fuck this. I'm doing it. In the moment, I know exactly what you did, but you probably feel a little guilty about it now. It's just up to you. Is this somebody you want to spend the rest of your life with and keep going down that path? I don't know the answer to those things. But if this is happening all the time, then it doesn't mean it's going to stop anytime soon. Kyle?

Yeah, there's just two sides to this coin. One, for me, I would just say moving really sucks. And he's going to have to move if they live together and they have a dog. And I hate moving. It's the worst. So you'd stay in just because you going to have to move if they live together and they have a dog. And I hate moving. It's the worst. So you stay in just because you didn't want to move. No, no, I'm not. Because then the other half is you kind of publicly cheated on her. And you must have been feeling at least got to remember at least how you were feeling in the moment when you think about the shame that you did it.

But also you were probably like, man, fuck her. She ruined this whole thing. God, I hate you so much. So, God, it's really tough. That's, I mean, who am I to give life advice in this situation? But I think you just said it.

The first thing you said is moving sucks. It sucks so bad. It didn't even register on my breakdown of this. The last thing I would say is like, I mean, I don't remember

that was a long story and the details were in the very beginning. I don't know what she was doing that she had to like go. I mean, some't remember that was a long story and the details were in the very beginning I don't know what she was doing that she had to like go I mean some guys like you know even wives like I've seen like the guy's wife is just a mess today and maybe you just gotta ask was she a mess today

or is she like a lightweight and it's constantly a mess and you just it's gonna be something looking onto the horizon that you're always gonna have to worry about if there's gonna be an open bar or you know multiple drinks or is she going to be an absolute mess you just kind of wonder um but if it if it was honestly like you know didn't want to say those things she didn't want to do those things and you know we'll just kind of pretend she didn't call the cops that one time on my mom? She called the cops about a potential kidnapping

against the guy's mom. Now, there's probably I would say over 50%... Did she know what was going on, though? She's clearly hammered. I'm not going to sit here and say maybe she has a terrible relationship with the mom. I don't know, but I don't know if that's an indication

that she was the same time mom. The cops call her... The drop of a hat cops call her, though. That's not really somebody you want close to the vest. So if she'll do that again, you gotta have to move at that point. But you just gotta be honest with yourself.

Is that the first time she's ever called the cops? I know this guy's friend's the one who wrote in, but he just gotta... Yeah, look, I know there was a friend of a friend. It wasn't a tour group or anything like that. It was a couple that we knew. And the boyfriend just got absolutely blacked out at some family event

and just told everyone in the family to fuck off and just let it... I don't know if it was some deep down resentment or something. I don't... Because some people will tell you, oh, when you do something like that, that means it's exactly how you feel. And maybe...

There's also a time that you could have just been so twisted, you didn't even know what the hell you were saying. But the guy laid in to his girlfriend's family, and that was it. That was it. That was basically it. It just didn't... And then he moved after that. Yeah, it was never repaired. And then he called

one of the moving services. He got one of those pods outside. Here's the deal. The cheating guilt, there's levels to it, right? There's the... I just can't fathom...

Well, I don't want to get too deep into this because I don't want to feel like I'm... No, I don't want to feel like I'm calling out anyone because I'm not. Everybody's got their... You don't understand what's going on with everybody's relationship. So I think that, you know, we could all sit here and say in a perfect world, no one would ever step out on their wife or husband or all this stuff. But like sometimes there just becomes, and I'm not just talking about like a sexual need

thing, there becomes this disconnect that none of us even understand. So I don't think that everyone that cheats is in the exact same category. You may disagree. I don't feel that way. I think they're different. So for this one, at the very least, if you're Mike, you can be like, okay, look, I care about this person. I want to keep... You've been with her seven years. You bought a dog. I still actually... This is a one-off. It's not who it was. Maybe we'll even laugh about it down

the road if you have a cool family and all that kind of stuff. You're definitely not going to laugh about it if your family isn't that cool. But as far as the self-guilt and the internal stuff that you're going to have to process, this one's probably an easier one to process. I'm not saying it's great. I'm not saying like, hey, cool for you, dude. But I would think deep down, you're like, okay, I did something I shouldn't have done. I still care about this person. I'm not going to share it though, because in this case, I was kind of able to like process why I did what I did because of everything that happened that night. But it sounds like if you were betting other, you know, wedding party people that you could pull it off, that you have a gear

in you that this is probably not the first time you've done this in the seven year relationship anyway, which is a completely different topic. Okay, this one's titled Making Friends at the Gym. Hey, Ryan, I won't list stats for lifting, but for the sake of context, I'm a pretty decent athlete. Not sure if this will help or not. It always helps, man. Thank you. I just moved to a new place with my wife, found a gym I really like. I'm 22 years old and there seems to be a fair amount of young people here, which is great. At my new job, I'll be honest, the people are nice, but I don't see any real relationships starting there. Here's the question. Is there a non-awkward way to approach guys at the gym while trying to make friends? Any help would be appreciated. Is there a non-awkward way to

approach guys in the gym while trying to make friends? The answer is no. It's not going to work. All right. Have a great holiday, everybody. Thanks to Steve and Kyle. And we will be talking to you on Monday. Outro Music you