The Ryen Russillo Podcast - The AFC vs. NFC QB Gap With Sheil Kapadia, Plus Gilbert Arenas on his NBA Journey and the Story Behind His Gun Incident

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Ryen opens with his thoughts on whether the quarterback gap between the AFC and NFC is as big as we think (0:31) before brining on The Athletic’s Sheil Kapadia to talk about some of the specific movement we saw at the position this offseason (8:08). Next, he chats with former NBA star Gilbert Arenas about being broke as a rookie, becoming an All-Star with the Wizards, and his battle with commissioner David Stern after his 2009 gun incident (27:46). Finally, Ryen closes it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:23:31). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Sheil Kapadia and Gilbert Arenas Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast is a really good one gilbert arenas just telling stories um all-time openness on this podcast and with the quarterback movement the latest ones we'll talk about that with shilka what to expect but also kind of looking at handicapping the depth in the af movement, the latest ones. We'll talk about that with Shilka Patia, what to expect, but also kind of looking at handicapping the depth in the AFC versus the NFC at the quarterback position and life advice. I want to start with an open on the quarterback depth in the AFC and kind of play it out here because I really, I don't know that I have it down definitively because I think a lot like how Bill and I on a Sunday pod

had talked about our top 20, top five players, which I think most people got. For some, they just were obsessed with the idea that we didn't know what we were doing. And that was the whole point, is that there's all these players' names that get thrown around all the time. And depending on which way the wind is blowing that week, especially in the NFL, the idea of a top five quarterback, there's probably 10 to 12 guys that you'll hear throughout a season mentioned as a top five quarterback. And it's just not true. If anything, maybe you should just say, hey, this is what we think the top tier is, and this is how many guys there are. Because I actually think in the NBA, it might be

one through six, seven, and eight, but it actually only might be like one, two, and three, which is really a moving target depending on however you identify or define these things yourself. So whenever I think about the NBA, it was kind of funny because Bill and I were going back and forth with it. And I'm like, every six months, I think I should come up with something towards the end of a regular season and then revisit that compared to the playoffs. Because after the playoffs, you feel stupid ever suggesting somebody that's won isn't higher than somebody who's lost. But then you go back to the next regular season and you're kind of like, all right, you know what?

I have a little bit, or I'm less emotionally influenced because of recent events. So with the AFC, just loading up, whether it's grabbing Russell Wilson, um, Deshaun Watson staying in the conference, but now playing at some point for Cleveland,

Matt Ryan coming over from Atlanta, uh, to the Colts. So there's been a bit of a transition, but I don't know. I don't know if it's as egregious as it's been made out to be, but I think the selling of the argument, and again, we're going to check with Shil Kapadia on this because he's really good on all the quarterback stuff from the athletic.

We've had him on a bunch of different times, but if you go top five guys that are at least in the conversation for top five guys, I think Mahomes, anybody at this point that's saying Mahomes is outside of top five, I'm not sure you should be listening to them. People want to knock them a little bit because of this past year or losing the playoffs at home to Cincinnati. You can go ahead and do it.

I'm probably not going to. Mahomes, I think Allen is right there. Because Burrow goes on this run, it feels like you can't leave Burrow out. We'll just put him down. And then Herbert, which is, he had moments of being like, everybody's favorite, well, everybody's expressive. A lot of people seem to be on that Herbert train there for a little while,

but I'm not even saying that he should be outside of it. Lamar has had an incredible run. He's got an MVP, but it now feels like consensus is that Lamar is just not allowed to be in front of like another six or seven guys, which I think I'm okay with. But then you throw in Russell Wilson who comes over, but he's not top five at this point. We still haven't mentioned Rogers. So what I think is happening here in the AFC is that you have a group of potential top fivers, right? That's really what it is. Not that this is one, two, four, and five in the NFL. It's definitive. We're all sure of it. It's that the AFC has more potential top fivers than the NFC does because the NFC has Rodgers. It has Brady.

NFC does because the NFC has Rodgers. It has Brady. And, you know, Kyler's had some nice stretches, but he's fallen apart the last two years physically and his last playoff game was atrocious. So we can't do that. Stafford just won a Super Bowl, but nobody's going to put him in the top five. And then the rest of the options are after Dak has like a two or three week stretch of averaging 380 yards and putting up huge points. Their home road splits last year were crazy,

but Dak's going to have some stretch. I imagine at some point he's going to put up huge numbers and somebody on TV is going to say he's a top five guy. He's not, there's no room. There's just no room for him here. So it's Rogers. It's Brady.

It's not Cousins. Fields is TBD. I think the NFC also has more meh quarterbacks. Where you go Wentz, meh. Mack Jones is in the AFC. That's Daniel Jones looking at my notes here. I think we all know how that one's going to end. Fields too early.

Goff, meh. Winston, meh. Atlanta, TBD. Carolina, good luck. Jimmy, yeah, meh. Drew Locke, you getting excited yet, folks, in Seattle? Probably not. Where, if you take it back to the AFC, you go, okay, Josh Allen, awesome.

Tua, Wilson, Mack, not all in the same category, but you get the point. They're not in there. I think people like Mitch Trubisky's stats and have forgotten that he just wasn't very good. Tannehill's put up crazy numbers. I mean, some of the stuff that would be like top five numbers, we know that's aggressive and that's not the case. David Millis, who's probably a guy i

would say 50 of our audience forgets his name every now and then and then you've got car and wilson around with the rest of the afc west so really if i were to break this down it's maybe seven afc of the top 10 maybe six six or seven knowing that some of these names are going to be disappointing and some of these names are going to exceed our expectations. And ultimately, yeah, I think that's what it is. I think the AFC has a higher crop of guys at the very top that are in that argument for that first tier, however big that number is. Top five is the one we always assign to it,

but it doesn't always make all that much sense because sometimes you have less and sometimes you have more. And that's where I think you're seeing this shift on top of the NFC having a lot of quarterbacks where it just doesn't really move the needle all that much. So, yeah, the AFC depth is better. And the other part of this, too, that happens a lot and not being completely dismissive of it, but it happens where it's like, well, if you're in the AFC, you need a quarterback. Hey, man. You kind of need one, no matter which which conference you're in like do you think nfc teams now because if you believe that if you believe the motivation is and sometimes it is the

case if you're in a division and you've got to keep up with other people but it also seems to mean like the the opposite could be possibly true that there's an nfc team going you know we probably don't can we get a quarterback yeah we could get one. Tuesday, they're sitting around the front office going, hey, should we get one? I'm like, dude, did you see the lack of depth around the top five? Did you hear Rosillo's open the other day? We don't need to get one. Yeah, you're right. We don't

need a quarterback. We're not in the AFC. I don't know. I think we say that too much. I think it happens. Yes, I think in the past, whether you want to talk SEC West football in the arms. Yes, I think in the past, whether you want to talk SEC West football and the arms race, or I remember back in the day, the Red Sox trying to keep pace with the Yankees

in the AL East because you're kind of looking at the division that you're in. Maybe the Padres are motivated to do what they've been doing the last couple of years because they're dealing with the Dodgers who never seem to care about

how much they're spending. Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. But I don't think it's so excessive to now suggest that all these AFC teams are trying to figure out how to get a quarterback because the depth is so much better in the conference, which it is. But does that mean that you believe that some teams were indifferent about improving the position prior to this? You think the Colts were going, hey, should we get one? Should we get a quarterback?

They're like, I don't know. Like, oh, Russell Wilson's on Denver? Yeah. Did you see the AFC North? Yeah. Okay, you know what? Let's get one. Let's go and get one.

And clearly they didn't want Baker and they wanted Matt Ryan. All right, we're going to talk with Shiel about this stuff and see what he thinks. Baker and they wanted Matt Ryan. Alright, we're going to talk with Shiel about this stuff and see what he thinks. He's one of our favorites to talk NFL with, Shiel Kapati of The Athletic. Okay, this was sort of the premise at the beginning because

as the momentum of the AFC getting extra guys, even though, you know, Luke Deshaun was still already in the AFC, but he stays in the AFC. You have the Matt Ryan part of you, Russell Wilson part of us, Mitch Trubisky perhaps gets you excited, who knows knows? Now it's like, oh, all the quarterbacks are in the AFC. I went through it a little bit. It was just out loud talking in an open. Usually, there's a little bit more structure to it because I'm not sure of the definitive answer.

I threw this to you last night. If you looked at, say, the top 20 quarterbacks, how many are in the AFC? I don't think it's this 15 to 5 ratio. I think the premise that I've landed on is that the number of quarterbacks that could be top five quarterbacks could be considered of that, that it is AFC heavy at the very, very top. So go any direction you want to go into. Yeah, this was a useful exercise. Thanks for giving me a little homework because I was with you. I've just been repeating, you know, the AFC is loaded there. And then I went through and I went through the 20 like you asked. And I got 12 in the AFC, eight in the NFC.

It's not crazy. I think Brady coming back, you know, I know that's only one guy, but I think that was probably a big factor. You've still got Rogers, Brady, Stafford, and, you know, Dak, I have in there in the top 20, a couple lower tier guys. I do think the young quarterback talent, I mean, that's the big difference to me is if you're looking at like the next eight years or whatever, then it really, I do, I think is stacked towards the AFC. I mean, Mahomes, Herbert,

Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Deshaun, like any of those guys could be the best quarterback. I think either any of those guys could win an MVP in the next 10 years. So I'll still stick with the initial premise. But I do think you're right. If we're looking at 2022, it's not kind of as crazy as maybe some people, including myself, may have made it seem. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I landed on. I think the NFC also has just a lot of people that people are like, oh, when are you getting replaced?

Yeah. Kirk Cousins. Yeah. Those types of guys. Absolutely. I mean, once you get, it was funny doing this. Like once I got to like, you know, 10, then I went through the next 10 and I'm like, all right, you can order these guys any way you want.

I think if you talk to different teams, different ones would have different preferences, whether it's Derek Carr, Kirk Cousins, Matt Ryan. I mean, you could throw younger, got Mac Jones, Trevor Lawrence in there. And so, yeah, I do think you're right. When you're looking at stability for a longer period of time, what is it in the NFC? It's like Dak Prescott. And people probably have varying opinions on Prescott as well,

but it's not a long list there. No, that's it. That's exactly the point then. It's the sexy names in the AFC. It felt like people were saying all 16 starters are in the top 20, which is not true. But there's just a lot.

Like Goff, you kind of go, is he the long-term guy? Who knows? New Orleans still has problems, question marks, and the rest of that division as well. I noticed you never mentioned Murray. Do you not have Kyler in your top 20 now?

No, I do have him in my top 20, but there's so much, I mean, who knows what's going on in there? He might be in the AFC. If we talk this time next year, he might be playing in the AFC. I think he's the guy. If you're one of these teams, that's like, let's just accumulate some draft capital. Let's not do anything crazy this off season. Maybe, you know, that thing gets really bad. They just give extensions to the coach and the GM. Maybe that thing gets really bad in 2022 and he's someone we can trade for next offseason okay all right so if we go back to the top my one of my least favorite pieces of content that exists on the internet is people

suggesting that somebody's better than patrick holmes um maybe you maybe you've i don't think i've read most of your stuff i don't believe that you've gone down that dark road yet. Where are you with Mahomes in relation to anyone challenging him at the peak? Yeah, I still haven't met the top. I mean, I think if you pulled every team and said you can have one player in the NFL and all the contracts are the same, by the way, I mean, you could make an argument like if you were doing the old, you know, trade asset column and the chargers call the chiefs. I mean, I still don't think the

chiefs do it, but in this hypothetical world and say, hey, you can get Herbert on his rookie deal here or you're paying Mahomes what you're paying Mahomes. What do you want to do? So I think you can make that argument. But I mean, I don't know that it's like the widest gap. I mean, the top is loaded. Mahomes, Herbert, we saw Josh Allen can go toe-to-toe uh with Mahomes in a game I mean Joe Burrow with moves they've made he could be there so you know I would say Mahomes Herbert and Allen maybe if I'm looking at like the next uh you know long range now I would throw Burrow in there some people might not but those would probably be the four guys I put on kind of that separate plane than everybody else maybe I'm reading too much here we just that's why you come on because that's

how I have it. I feel like four of the five are those AFC guys that we just mentioned. And I would admit, as much as I love Burrow, does it feel a little Super Bowl push-y to be including him in this list? Because I still would have Allen. I still think most people have Herbert.

Mahomes part of this. I'm not going to be dismissive of Rodgers because the guys lit it up the last two years despite the playoff struggles um I don't think Brady's ahead of some of the guys that we've mentioned here but it's not like he's he's he's not in the distance right I mean this isn't this isn't that far away so yeah I think look the Mahomes contract by the way too as we've seen the new numbers come in in the last couple guys that contract I knew when it was signed for all the headlines of this is an absurd amount of money. It's actually, no, this is a great contract for the Chiefs.

For what the cap will end up being and what the other comps are going to be, Mahomes' deal was going to be a terrific deal for them. Give me the Russell Wilson arguments, because I've seen you make the arguments that this is a declining player the last year and a half, I would say. Some could be blamed on injuries. But I think the way I've read you is that you're also fairly open to the idea that he's still one of the better ones, right? Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's absolutely right. I think it's fair to point out that the last two years, he has not been great. He's been a little bit up and down.

What's the scary number? What's the bad trend that you've seen, Herman? Because I know you've shared these numbers. What's the scary number? What's the bad trend that you've seen? Because I know you've shared these numbers. What's the one that jumps out? Yeah, I mean, it's just, even if you just look at like EPA per play, like, you know, that's probably the most telling quarterback stat.

He's like middle of the pack over the last two years. And, you know, I don't think it's one thing. They've obviously had a philosophical clash, whether it's, you know, his inability to make those second reaction plays. Obviously, he's dealing with injuries. But to me, it's like a no-brainer move if you're Denver. I mean, he's still, what,

33 years old. And the thing about Russell Wilson, he's going to be out there. He's taking this personally. I battled with Pete Carroll for years, and now I'm getting my own thing. And I still have this. It's personal accolades, and it's winning. Like most athletes. That's not saying somebody's selfish that they want those personal accolades. And now he's like, I'm going to have this next chapter. I'm going to rub it in their face. I'm going to be making $50 million in three years. And I'm going to have like an amazing second chat final chapter here to my career. So I think there are pieces in place for him in Denver.

I mean, we'll see with the coaching staff, but I think he's got enough weapons there. I think he'll be motivated. I don't think he's declining to the level where I'm concerned that he's going to all of a sudden suck and this is going to be a disaster for them in the next two years.

So I would say I'm more bullish on Wilson here in his next stop than most people. I don't blame any franchisor saying, hey, we've got it wrong with 10 starters since Peyton Manning. So let's just figure this thing out, even if it's not perfect.

I am all for the transaction. And I do wonder if there's a bit of accounting, maybe not the right word, but it's the best way to describe it, where if this is a franchise that's potentially for sale, how dumb the valuations of a franchise would be. Like, in the NBA, I would get local ratings. We have a top five player.

Look at this. And then then those tack on like 500 million, because this player's under contract. Right. And I'll go, wait, if you're buying a team, I don't know that a player should have a half a billion dollars with the impact on what the purchase price would be LeBron in Cleveland. Yes, maybe, but like there's other times where I go, where I go, I think this number is just too big. But knowing that it does make a difference, that there is an impact there, I think the Broncos not only want to be better at the position, but I also think that they can factor that into whatever happens and what's a really

under-reported story with how weird the whole Denver ownership structure has been now for years. I mean, they're on it locally, but nationally, no one seems to care about how weird this whole deal has been with the trustee and everything that's involved. So I've always thought that, look, they want to win games, but I also think if they're looking to sell this team and having somebody like this under contract, it actually makes a little bit more sense too. But again, that's just me thinking out loud. Yeah. I always thought it was weird too. I'm

like, wait a minute. You're going to. The evaluation of the entire franchise is based on who the quarterback is over the next five years. That seemed to be short-term thinking to me. But you're right. The interest, certainly, with what they've watched for the last 10 years and from watching Drew Locke and Teddy Bridgewater, I'm sure that they're juiced up to a different level now. Is Carr over-under properly rated when you talk to teams? I would say properly. I don't think like we didn't mention him in that first thing we just did. I don't think anyone would put him in there, but I certainly would have him in the top 20. I mean, there's that tier of, I would say Carr, Cousins, Matt Ryan. I mean, if you want to put Jimmy G in

there, you could, there's probably like six, seven, eight guys there that you could put there. I think what Carr has going for him is it seems like his intangibles are very good. His teammates really like him. His coaches really like him. And I think if you surround him with a good supporting cast, he can really play well. Same thing again. That can be said for Kirk Cousins. That can be said for Garoppolo as well.

What do you do with Lamar now? for Garoppolo as well. What do you do with Lamar now? Because Lamar, as I've argued numerous times, it's like I don't feel like Lamar is unfairly criticized. I feel like Lamar has jumped up every time we've put limitations

on who he is as a player. And then to have this MVP season, then we want to start thinking, well, look, if you can win MVP, that means you should be in this group. And I don't think anybody thinks he's in this group. So I think that's where the challenge comes in with the Lamar discussion. Yeah. To me, like quarterback right now is all about upside. I think, you know, some of those guys we just mentioned,

they're competent. And that's why I have an issue with teams like Washington trading for Carson Wentz. It's like competency isn't getting you anywhere. Like every team has an okay quarterback who you can win nine games with and make the playoffs. So to me, it's all about, you got to swing for the fences. And to me, Lamar obviously has that upside with him winning the MVP. Now you're right. I mean, there've been, there are times you watch that Ravens offense for the last two years and

you're like, shoot, they can't even complete a pass. Like what is going on here? Something you would never say about some of the top offenses in the NFL. Now I think it's fair to look at the coaching there. And there are people who would say, you know, they don't have the most innovative, most complex passing scheme with Greg Roman there. And what Lamar ran in college, people would say was even more complicated. And he has the, you know, the brains, the mind to do it, accuracy to do it when he misses. It's not because he's going to the wrong place. I think

he just misses. I shouldn't say actually because he does miss throws, but it's not that he's always going to the wrong place. So he's still young enough. Now that contract situation, talk about sort of under the radar storylines. He's his own agent, I believe. And he's looking at probably the quarterback market here and kind of betting on himself, which to me, if you're like a top quarterback under 30 is probably not a bad, a bad thing to do because like how low is the floor? You know, unless you're worried about having a career ending injury, Lamar Jackson can say, unless you want to pay me at the top of the market, I'll just chill, you know, go ahead, use yeah. Franchise tag, go ahead. You want to use it again until I'm getting top, top level money. I'm not going to sign anything long term. So

that's kind of like, I don't know if it's in the weeds or under the radar there with the Ravens, but that certainly is a kind of a big storyline right now. Do you think that should give us any, like, should that influence our evaluation of Lamar if his own team is hesitant to give him a deal that matches some of the other quarterbacks? Maybe a little bit, but, you know, the team's looking out for the team and the player's looking out for the player. Like if Lamar Jackson were on the open market tomorrow, you know, he would be paid at the top of the market. There would be some team, I think, you know, it might not be every team.

Some teams might say, well, we got to build the whole thing around him. We don't want to have the quarterback inclusive run game. But I do think there certainly would be, you know, many teams who would look at that and say, this guy won the MVP at like 24 years old. Yeah. We'll pay him $50 million. I mean, just look at what happened with Watson. There were what, 13 teams at least interested in him. And then he whittled that down to four. And I know there are different types of players, but still there's a lot that comes with that. And so, you know, I wouldn't probably read too much into it. Yeah. I mean, every Watson conversation is challenging because it sounds like, well, if you just talk about him, the player, like we had,

we had Jordan Palmer and Quincy Avery on recently and Quincy works with Deshaun, you know? And so in the context of what we were doing, it was, hey, we're not doing 60 minutes here. We were talking about Deshaun, the quarterback, and then it's like, well, how could you guys just talk about him as the quarterback and not talk about him? It's like, well, because it's assumed that we all understand what else is going on here and nobody's in favor of it. But if we do look at this just from a football standpoint, again, with Watson, it almost seems like a mistake to leave him out of the top five conversation. It's just that we don't know when we're going to see him. But I imagine he's young enough that when he comes back, I imagine Cleveland with that investment. Can you put into context how special Watson was with the Houston team that I don't think any of us would ever say was the best roster

in the league? Yeah. Talking about just from a football perspective, absolutely. He would belong in that conversation with all those young guys. Now, he hasn't won probably as much as all of them, but circumstances absolutely matter. And he was not in great circumstances on the field there with the Houston Texans. I mean, he's still such a young player. He's got all the talent you could look for. I mean, the numbers are pretty crazy when you look at it.

It sort of went under the radar because the Texans, you know, we're not winning a lot of games. But yeah, I think he would be right there in that conversation if we're talking about just on-field sort of talent ability with all those guys we mentioned in the first part. Is there somebody that is a projected starter that you just go, this is the most likely to be replaced by midseason? Now, we also are going to see how the draft plays to be replaced by midseason. Now, we also are going to see how the draft plays out because it doesn't matter.

Three of these quarterbacks are still going to go in the first round, probably, and that means that two of them are playing, at least. Yeah, yeah. Replaced at midseason. I mean, I don't know. Are we assuming Jameis is... I guess they gave Jameis sort of that low-level starter money. I mean, Tua is the probably easy answer.

They signed Teddy Bridgewater. Bridgewater just kind of replaces guys like Tua pretty much everywhere he goes. You sign him for $6.5 million. So if that's not going well for Tua in the first six, seven weeks of the season, maybe they would make a switch there. Although I think they're very similar players, so I don't know that you would have kind of a major upgrade with him.

I'm looking at the rest of the list here. I mean, I don't think so. I mean, I don't know what the Lions are doing. They're just like, yeah, we're good with Jared Goff here. We don't want to sign anybody else. I thought Dan Campbell was pretty frustrated at times with Goff last year. They were kind of like a feel good story,

you know, by the end of the year, but I don't think he was pumped about having golf as a starter, but they haven't done anything yet. So yeah, I mean, I guess we kind of have to see what would happen in the draft, but I do think it's smart. Like Trubisky, you know, that move gets clowned a little bit. I think that's smart. Sign a guy for $7 million. Then you go draft somebody and guess what? You're getting a couple of bites at the apple. Trubisky is not going to light it up, but you're not going to have like the, you know, an offense where you can't even complete balls to receiver. So like that Trubisky Mariota thing, like, I think that's

a smart way to go. Don't pay a lot, draft somebody, wait for the, you know, accumulate some assets, wait for the next quarterback domino to fall next off season, whether it's Kyler Murray or somebody else and get ready. Like I would much rather do that than trade two picks for Carson Wentz and pay him $28 million. So not a fan of the commander's moves, Cyr. I mean, look at it now compared to everything else that's happened. Teddy Bridgewater gets $6.5 million, and you're giving up two picks and $28 million for Carson Wentz? I mean, Matt Ryan goes for a third. It's just like, yeah, I thought they really kind of just panicked. They're like, hey, we got to do something.

Who's available? Yeah, go ahead. We will go ahead and acquire Carson Wentz. And to kind of have the confidence that in your building, after he played with Frank Reich, that he's going to be better for you than he was for Frank Reich. I mean, with your infrastructure, with your kind of disastrous organization, that to me is just such a huge stretch. He certainly could be one that I didn't mention him. But yeah, if he were replaced in week eight and we're going, is Carson Wentz ever going to have a starting job again in the NFL? That conversation would not surprise me.

What do the numbers tell us about Matt Ryan? I'm a longtime Matt Ryan defender. I'm happy for him that he's with the Colts. Look, I know the numbers aren't pretty, but I think that's another kind of situation that may be similar to Deshaun as a younger player to Ryan as an older player. Yeah, the numbers were not great last year. He's probably a slightly below average starter. At the same time, that's an easy one to look at and go. I mean, the guy had the worst situation for any quarterback in the NFL. I mean, the offensive line was a disaster. They traded Julio Jones. Calvin Ridley didn't play. I mean, it was, you know, Russell Gage

and rookie Kyle Pitts that he was throwing. He was just getting crushed. I mean, if you watch those Falcons games or even if you didn't and just flash to red zone, I mean, it was mostly Matt Ryan getting completely crushed and thrown into the ground and sometimes making an amazing throw. So I think if you're the Colts, you can talk yourself into, we have a better offensive line. We've got a better infrastructure. We've got a coach who's maximized the talents at quarterback for us. I thought it was a fine gamble to take.

You know, it's not a long-term answer. I think they're another team. You still look to the draft, but in the short term, yeah. You know, Matt Ryan could get you to win that division next year, sure. So I think the best way to summarize this is the AFC has maybe five options, depending on what happens with Watson when he comes back to play, his top five quarterbacks between Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, Burrow. And look, Watson was that guy.

I mean, I guess you could even go six if you said Lamar had some kind of season where the NFC's entries are Rodgers and Brady. So that's it. I think that's it. I think that the AFC has more top. Look, the exercise was not to say the NFC actually is better quarterback depth because that's impossible. But it's just that they have so many more options as potential top five guys and look we're going to be surprised

maybe kyler turns things around here maybe there's um you know i don't know i'm trying i'm looking for it maybe jaylen hearst takes a step up but again i mean to have him at top five that doesn't seem to make a ton of sense i'm not going to go that crazy with it and stafford you know still coming off of a good year but maybe not great year but it'll be remembered as great because they ended up winning the Super Bowl so I think that's kind of the best way to summarize it at least for yeah yeah I think in the NFC you could throw you know Stafford I think has that upside Dak I think still has that upside Kyler has that upside if any of those guys you said hey they were top five quarterback next year that wouldn't shock me and I would still include Russ in there in the AFC. I think if things fall right for him next year,

we can be having that stupid MVP, never got a vote conversation in like week seven and everyone can get annoyed. So yeah, I would still put him in there. There you go. I can't wait. That'd be awesome. Shil Kapadia of The Athletic.

Always appreciate the time. Thanks, man. Thanks for having me. This is exciting. Gilbert Arenas is going to join us no chill his podcast gilbert arenas part of ubo as well i was checking it out this past week you guys had paul pierson you having paul pierson to talk about him and kg being in high school and ducking from a cab fare was not what i expected to hear five minutes into the podcast. That was pretty funny, man. Yeah, Paul's hilarious.

How long have you known Paul? To that, oh, no, no, no, like 90, like 98, 99, when I used to just go up to UCLA to watch all the NBA players play. Yeah, because you were, did you come out in 2000? I came out in 2001, so I was a junior in high school. Right, okay. So the LA guys,

what is it about the summer and the LA guys and all the players that want to move out? Is it just that you see LA run? I mean, obviously the city's great too, but that's just legendary. It seems like so many players are out here all the time. I think Magic Johnson started something obviously the city's great too, but that's just legendary. It seems like so many players are out here all the time. I think Magic Johnson started something that was just, it was just great, you know, just for basketball itself.

You know, usually because so many players coming from Los Angeles to the pros, when they come back, when they're training, you have 10, 12 guys here. Those guys start to get together. So then once other players hear it, they travel to Los Angeles for summer run. So Los Angeles became a hot spot for coming back in the summer to test your skill and test your training. Now, I'd imagine, because this is kind of the way basketball is, were there guys that played in those games that were just unbelievable but it never happened when they played in a real NBA game? Who are the guys?

We call them practice players. That's why the NBA is funny because we were like, yo, in the summer, yo, this person we couldn't guard. Like, so Nick Young, they call him Nick Young. Nick Young is called I am legend. You could not, you can't, you could not stop that man in the summer. Just something about structure, something about structure and coaching hurts other players' mentalities.

Some players in the summer, horrible. Horrible summer players because non-refereeing hurts their game. They need the referees, they need the structure, they need the rules. So you have these two worlds of

you play against him in the summer, you're like, yo, he's so easy to guard. Then you put structure referees around. He's the hardest person to guard. Then you have no structure. Right. And then this guy's just blossoms. You know, so, you know, you have. You have Nick. He's one of those players. You know, Flip Murray was he was amazing on or off that court. I mean, you know, he just was, he was amazing on or off that court. I mean, you know,

he just didn't get enough time. Um, who else, who else, who else, who else, uh, Jamal killed no matter what.

Those are the, you know, those are the players that you just hated guarding in the summer. You hated guarding like a Ginobili type. um, you didn't like guarding Jamal Crawford. You wouldn't want to guard kairi um jordan clarkson you don't want to guard him in the summer like those are the type of guys

you're just like you know what you guys are kind of wild jr smith jr smith was a hard summer guard now he was a hard summer he was really hard no but it's a great point because anybody that's ever played really at any level you have guys to be like, all right, as soon as it's real and there's refs, it's like you're not even close to the same player. It's and it's always scores, too. It was always the scores would just be like, I never have to worry about getting yanked. I never have to look back over the bench if I did something wrong. And some guys just I mean, that's the that's the mystery of coaching. You know, when I think about, you know, how vocal you were as a player and stuff since then.

All right, let me ask you this. What are the things you hear about today's game, today's players from people, whether it's somebody like me or, you know, somebody doing ESPN first take countdown, all that kind of stuff, TNT. What are some of the things you hear about today's game and players that you don't agree with? Usually all of it. All of it is a lot. I didn't narrow it down. It's like music, right?

Every generation hates the one before. That's just how it works. It's like the overpaid babies. Overpaid babies um um you know overpaid babies um with and i didn't like the time management you know when they were talking about time management stuff um what else what else what else what like if we talk about if we talk about step like you caught some heat because you said steph's not a top five point guard but you were saying it more because

you just didn't see steph as a traditional point guard right yeah okay so like it was funny i said he's not a top five point guard but he's a top five player right if that made sense um you know when you talk about point guards you know they all raise you know the the headline is always magic johnson types right that means they're past first guards they're leading their team making them better in the passing category so you know with that with that that baseline you wouldn't put step in there right you would put you know lonzo Lonzo Ball, Mellow Ball, Rondo, Chris Paul, like a little bit of John Wall. You would put those type of cards. So Steph would be with us, me, Kyrie, Dane Litter.

Well, most of the cards, I mean, Harden's a point guard, but Harden's a point guard, right? You know what I mean? He is what he is. And that's got to be. So when you go back, though, to you coming out, I mean, do you think that's why you ended up being a green as the top of the second round?

But, you know, the idea that you're not a first-round pick, looking back on it, is absurd. Is it because of the combo stuff that was just a dirty word back then? Yeah, you know, being a combo guard was looked down on. They didn't know how to use the combo guard at that time. It was like, do we play him at the one? He's not good enough to control the team at the one.

He's not big enough to be the two. Where do we put this guy? And that was really the stigma on combo guards coming in. So when I came in, technically I was a shooting guard. I was a shooting guard and watching Jason Richardson, you know, getting molly whopped, you know, day in and day out by, by those shooting guards. I was like, man, let me learn this point

guard position. And then when I started paying attention to the point guard position, I'm like, yo, these fuckers is weak compared to what I do. You know what I mean? You're still talking about Gary Payton, you know, all-star, you know, you have John Stockton, you have Jason Kidd, you have Steve I didn't know, Steve Nash wasn't a

highlight what he was, you know, once he got traded or once he left for free agency. You know, you got a young Tony Parker, you got Jamal Tinsley, you know, I'm like, yo, these, they can't guard me, you know? So it became one of those minds where I'm just going to do what I do against them and see how that pans out. Did you think you were going in the first round?

Oh yeah. Yeah. What happened? Um, besides, um, okay. So the rumor is this. I went, so I went to Boston. I went to Boston.

I had three days in Boston. Um, I hurt my heel. I hurt my heel in Boston and I was nervous about like hurting myself just for the rest of my workouts. So I guess it was like, was it Jim O'Brien, some O'Brien? Jim O'Brien, yeah. Yeah. So I told them that, hey, I need to lead.

So after my second workout, I left. And they said I was soft. I was too immature to battle. And then that was... So add that with the rest of the immature shit I did. It just became one of those. Yeah, Boston really didn't like you because that was the year they had three first-rounders.

Yeah, they had three first-rounders. Right. And granted, they had 10 and 11ers right and you know granted they they had 10 and 11 but that's when they took joe forte yeah 10 11 21. uh yeah 21. basically yeah i mean they had joe i mean joe was going to go high and they were in love with keitrick brown because they thought like they'd uncovered this mystery um yeah, and he was a sick athlete and everything, but then Forte later on didn't exactly work out. All right, so you got a bad rep now, and you go in the second round,

but then it's, for those of us who remember, you come in and you're rookie or the Warriors. You're like, wait, what? And then the second year, you're 18 a game, and it's on. What was that like, especially that second year? And then you know because of the weird second-round rules that you're going to make money, too, on top of everything else. Okay, so the first year, I'm not even going to lie, I was depressed.

I was really depressed because my basketball career is basically based off of hard work, outworking the next man, finding his flaws, attacking his flaws, right? So when I came in, you know, my mind, I'm not even going to lie, I was looking at Jason Richardson's spot. You know, me and him, because we trained all summer with Kiki VanderWijk. So me, Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy was all under the same age as Dan Fagan, rest in peace.

We had Kenny Satterfield, and we had Tavares Bell from Rhode Island. So it was the five of us. So we used to battle like crazy. And Kiki used to say, yo, Gilbert is probably your best player. So when I got drafted, my phone call, you know, the interview, don't worry, I'll be starting by the middle of the season.

Click. That was my interview for the Warriors after I got drafted. Click. Right? Just this cocky kid. So going into training camp, watching, learning, the game was faster than I thought. These guys are more athletic than I thought. I remember I played in a one-on-one drill with Larry Hughes and the score was 21-3. He beat the dog hell out of me. And I remember going back to the house, calling Right Intention, the recruiter who got me to Arizona, said, hey, I need to go back to college, bro.

Can you get me back to college? I swear to God, I'll just give the money back. Were you serious? Oh, yeah. It was horrible. It was horrible. It was horrible. And then I remember we had this psychologist. They do that psych test. And the guy was asking me all these stupid questions. And he asked me a question. He said, would you rather... This is right before I started breaking out. He was like, would you rather hit the game winner or make the game winning assist?

hit the game winner or make the game winning assist. And I said, those are my two options? Because I would pick neither. And then he was like, what do you mean? It's like, I mean, of course, everyone wants to be Jordan, but that doesn't have nothing to do with your work ethic. That's just who you are as a person. I'd rather say game winning rebound.

He's like, why would you say game winning rebound? Because that means it's me versus nine other players on that court. And it's like, that's real competition. The person who gets that ball has won that game. So that's me against the five plus my four. And then after our talk, he said, I don, I don't know, you know, what your playing style is, how you play, but you are going to be great because your mindset, you know, just change some things about you. Stop being, you know, you know, the rumor you're, you're really immature, this and that. Why don't you just be serious? Why don't you be angry about where you are right now? And I'm like, serious, like angry, who's angry? Like, why would i want to be angry i'm in the nba it's like you know this is about perception it's about perception if they're looking at you laughing and giggling that means they think you're not ready to play so you need to let them know that you're always ready you're always serious so i was like all right and from there i just like it was just

tunnel vision of anger it was just just tunnel vision of anger. It was just a tunnel vision of just anger. I didn't smile anymore. If you look at when I played that first, I just became, those first few years, all techs. I was behind Rasheed Wallace in technical fouls. I was just angry at everything. It was just one of those, it was like a dark place, but he was right. They're looking at how I carried

myself off the court to get on that court. From there, I just slowed the game down. I started watching everybody for their weaknesses, and then I just started attacking everybody. That's how I finished off my rookie season. Then going into my second season um i

got musclemen as a coach right and um i remember training camp muscleman says um hey we're gonna go with bobby sir as the starting point guard i'm like what first of all i've been training all summer thinking jason um um jason Will was going to be the point guard. Right. They were basically trying to say that if we got the number two pick, we're picking Jason Williams. Right. I just lost a dude a couple of years before that. There's no way I'm going to let this person steal my position.

Right. And it was like, well, if he's the number two pick it is his position so i was like all right then we're just gonna battle every single day i'm gonna embarrass this man every single day right so we ended up getting three and we got um done leaving um which we were high school we were high school summer partners anyway so that was a great pickup for me personally because I knew how he played. But yeah, going into training camp, you know, most of them said, yeah, you're not going to be the starter.

It's going to be Bobby Sura. And I was like, but what if I beat him out? He's like, you know, I'm not really, you know, fond of beginning players. So in training camp, I became so man. And I remember we're going, we went to, we went to go to say that said, yeah,

um, after I took the position in training camp, you know, can we restructure my deal? Um, I'm a starting point guard, seven year, $24 million.

That's what they offered. No, that's what I went in asking for. Wait, well, could you do, I don't know if could you even do that would have had to have been a new extension that was agreed upon before because you couldn't have been able to do seven years on top of right no no no but back then it was seven year deal no i know there were seven year maxes for the current team but you would have had to it would have

basically been like once the summer happens, once the summer happens. So we was, so basically I finished this year and then it'd be seven. Yeah. So, uh, it was basically, it was basically laugh,

basically laugh, laughed it off. It's basically a laugh off. Like, okay. Yeah. Come on. You talking about like,

so you got to remember, I spent all my money coming into the draft. So I really was on this fixed budget. I was on a fixed budget for about 500 bucks. So my free money was $500 for the month. You know, and that's like, you know, like dinner, gas. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You were living on 500 a month as a rookie?

Yeah. Because, you know. What happened to all the other money come on i'm thinking i'm a first round pick i'm thinking i'm i'm thinking i'm top i think i top 14 so i knew i was going to go past um like i thought i was going to boston there was no way I was going to go past Portland. And there was no way in hell I was going to go past Sacramento. Right. And back then, I think it was four years of guaranteed money if you were a first rounder, you know,

and then they shaved it back to the two option years. So you're a $300,000 your first year. So you had spent, now I'm figuring it out. You had spent all of your money thinking you were a first rounder who at least is banking like 4 million bucks. So you were spending against that. Yeah.

So I spent the, I bought an Escalade, fixed it all up. Right. I gave my dad a loan, you know, so I spent all this. So when they did the rest of the money to get me all the way into my next contract, it was $500. You were the brokest NBA player. Oh, brokest. It was like I was,

it was, I was, that's why I said I was living in the gym because I didn't have enough gas money. Like towards the end of it, I didn't have enough gas money to go back and forth.

Did you say anything? Were teammates making fun of you? Did anybody? No, they didn't know. So you, what was your, where were you living? Only Larry, only Larry Hughes moved. So I was living, it was Alameda Island. did anybody know they didn't know so you what was your where were you living only larry only larry hughesman so i was living um um it was alameda island so i live on alameda island um

who was my uh so i live next to chris mills so usually off out of the when we go on a road he would take me to the airport and bring me back home because we live next door um and in the morning um mark jackson big mark jackson from philly he'll pick me up at like 6 a.m and then take me to that's where i start getting and learning how to get there early he'll pick me up and take me to the gym so you know those guys help and then when i want an extra work i'll just stay at the gym so what ends up happening instead of going back and forth i just stayed at the gym the whole time you know players lounge you got jacuzzi shower you got the the fridge you got a little food in there you know snacks you know okay but so this is the origin and it was some

of the people just being like what's his deal right like what what's going on because they may not have said anything but they had to figure out at some point like you don't have a car you always need a ride you're at the gym the entire time, which is probably what turned you into a great player, because you didn't have any other choice. Yeah. I didn't have a choice. I'm not playing. I'm not playing. I'm broke. Okay, but you were

playing, though. My girlfriend's cheating on me. I can figure out why. She thought she was dating an NBA player and finds out he's getting 500 bucks a month. No offense. All right. But you ended up starting 82 games and scoring 18.

And then you signed a huge deal with Washington. So, I mean, at some point, okay, they don't want to take your extension, which is an absurd extension. Thinking about your abilities at 3 million a year for the next seven. So take us through all that part, because that was something that was very eye-opening to a lot of people, and they made a rule about it, essentially, because of you, because of the second round stuff. Yeah, so going into the summer in the first place, I had to borrow money from a teammate. So Eric Dampier. So I was like, hey, like, I'm trying to like, which is a good one to pick by the way, to borrow money from.

He was a good one to pick. So, um, he let me borrow. So he gave me $75,000. He gave me $75,000. Like I'm in heaven. Like that's the most money I've had in my account at one time. Like, so I'm like, like going into the summer, I'm like a baller.

So I took a trip. I took a trip to, uh, Costa Rica, like, like, you know, so I took a trip to Costa Rica. Um,

you know, I heard like Michael Jordan, you know, just like the wizards, you know, it's like, Oh damn MJ. Right.

They didn't give him the, you know, so you hear all the rumors and stuff. And then was it July? You know, I think it's July, right? When free agency starts.

Yeah. So, so I'm living in my agent's place in Venice. So I get to run the beach every morning. I'm training,

you know, I'm training like crazy. My, I, I'm mentally going back to going to state. Eric Musselman is my coach. He let me do whatever I wanted. I was his guy. But also, Kiki VanderWaay wants me over in Denver. And so it was this big...

Even from the beginning, like the end of that year, Kiki Vanderwaay is already saying they're coming after me. So Warriors knew that they were going to get outbid by Denver from the beginning. If there was going to be one million, they were going to get outbid by Denver. So that was the big thing going towards

the end of the season. So I kind of had that leverage already that no matter what, Golden State has to get to that 49 million, right? No matter what. I think it was like seven-year 49 mid-level. So my agent went into the free agency was like yo we're asking for max so at that time max was 87 year 86 maybe 84 i think that was the deal back then um so that's what we went into free agency you asking for. And out the gate, Denver offers 51.

So I'm like, I at least got 51. No matter what happens, I at least got $51 million. So everything from there was just basically just making the right decision that fit me as a basketball player. The reason I didn't end up in Denver is because they tried to call Kiki tried to bluff

Dan Fagan by signing Andre Miller. What ended up happening is they signed Andre Miller for I think 50-51-49. I think it's 51. And they said, we'll get, we'll get Gilbert 52. And my agent was like, well, thank you for pushing the number up to 51 because you signed, you signed a Volkswagen for Ferrari money. You signed the vote and I'm not going to let my Ferrari sign for a million dollars over that Volkswagen

you got over there right but thank you for pushing the number up so because he signed at 51 I knew I was at least at least 10 million dollars ahead of him and then I knew Lamar Odom was above me. So I'm trying to figure out what Lamar is going to sign.

Lamar is trying to figure out what I'm going to sign. So then I just, you know, I didn't go to Denver. I mean, I didn't go to Utah, but Utah offered, you know, like 72. And I'm like, what the hell's happening over here? 72, oh my God. Went to the Clippers. They started off at 55. They just went above

Denver. From there, because we're asking for max, everyone is trying to ... We talked to Pat Riley. Pat Riley was not happy about 55. He was like,

I do not believe in young players. We just drafted a kid named Dwayne Wade. We would love to have them both as the one and the two, but we want Dwayne to try to play the one. $55 million max is pretty high for a player who's really not proven so you know they were they were on the fence still um so i go to washington um my dad asked a poland about um you know what because we're jordan fans we're Jordan fanatics. So my dad, you know, the whole house is fucking

red and black, you know, that bullshit. So we go there and we're talking to Mr. Poland, and my dad said, hey, so what happened with Jordan? Why is he the owner? And then Mr. Poland said, you know, straight out, he effed my team up.

He said, eff my team up. You know, you're talking about, you know, the best player to ever play this game. Talking to 18, 19-year-old kids with the mentality of a great. He said, he's not like Magic Johnson where Magic Johnson's trying to help the kids. His ego is still out there.

So, you know, he's hurting these kids' confidence. So I asked the players, hey, do you want me to let Jordan be the owner? And all the players said no. He said, listen, I'm a basketball fan. And then he tells us a story about West Lundsdale and how his rookie MVP is the reason that they all have their own rooms now because half the season he had to sleep in the hallway because he was with, you know,

he was, they had roommates. So the veteran made him sleep outside and this is my MVP and rookie of the year sleeping in the hallway. And then from there, I was like, no, this is never going to happen again.

So he's telling us all this. He was like, yeah, he just messed my team up. He said, but if you come here, whatever we have in the bank is yours. He said, the salary, calorie, he said, right now we have 56 million. If the cap goes up, whatever it is, is yours. The cap goes up. Whatever it is, it's yours. Brian, is it Brian Russell opts out of his deal and goes to the Lakers to try to win a championship?

Whatever money, that's yours too. So whatever we have, it's yours. He said, if you help me out of this Jordan crisis, when your contract comes out, that's yours too. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. He said, we do not have, in this city of D.C., we do not have a face of the city right now. You can be the face of the city.

So I said, okay. All right. Cool. No problem. Go back home and then go to the state is my last stop. They take a private jet. So I'm on a private jet for the first time. Oh, man, I can get used to this. This is how the ballers do it.

They fly private everywhere. T.O. was on the plane. So him and my dad are talking. To this day, they're best friends because of that flight. So T.O.'s there talking about San Francisco and, you know, doing all of that. And then when we get to the hotel, they had like the

Viper Porsches outside. Like, you know, that caught my eye as soon as I walked in. There's some important people here. This is a nice hotel and you get all luxury cars. So we go into the meeting, you know, you know, they do, you know, they show the season, how we play together. And then they had like a blooper, how it looks without me on the court.

And then it had all these bloopers of them just messing up. Right. So, you know, yeah. So it played to my ego, of course. Wait, wait, you know, yeah. So it played to my ego, of course. Wait, wait, wait, timeout. So they played clips of other guys screwing up. Yeah, it was just, but that was to my ego. So I was like, yeah, see, I knew they couldn't play without me. Um, so we're, so because of my mentor, Otis, Otis Smith, I had Otis come to the meeting right because that's

who i trusted you know um he was just player development you know and and um and go to state but that's who i talked to all the time especially about the mental part of the game so he kind of helped me you know throughout those two years so i had him inside the meeting. And I remember when we started talking about the money, they were like, yeah, you know, what we have for you is you have to play next year for 4.9. Like, and then we can have a under the table deal, seven years, 79 million. He said, and then we have

and those five luxury cars downstairs is yours. From the beginning, I was like, excuse me? You said the five, wait, those cars we passed, those are mine? Yes, those are all yours.

Like all mine. Yeah, they're yours. All paid for and everything. Whatever they said for the next 30 minutes did not register. Because all I'm thinking is like, Monday, oh, I'm going to try to read one Monday. Tuesday, oh my God.

Oh, they're going to hate me on the team because I'm going to be... And that's all that's going through my brain. They're just yapping. I don't hear nothing. I'm just thinking luxury, luxury. All the girls is going to pull up. Oh my brain. They're just yapping. I don't hear nothing. I'm just thinking luxury, luxury. All the girls is going to pull up. Oh, my God.

So all you hear is, hey, Gilbert, did you hear what he said? Wait, what? Huh? I told you he got it. And then Otis is like, I told you he was not listening. Right? And then it was like, well, can you have us a minute? Like, give us a minute so we can, like, compare the contracts.

Right? So they get to comparing. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't need to talk about this anymore. I see all the, I want those cars, right? And then 4.9, I get it. And then there's 79 million, right? That's like 80 something, bro.

That's like 84, 85. I'm good. 85 for, 85 for eight years. Who's, that's, that's, that's like 84 85 i'm good 85 or in 85 for eight years who's that's that's that's amazing money and he was and otis is over here like this why are you okay shut up he's like he's shut up just shut up really quick let them do the numbers for you so So it's me and my dad, Dan Fagan and Otis, right? So they're putting the numbers side by side, right? So I'm over here like, luxury, luxury, luxury. And then it was like, well, Gil, with the Washington, so by this time, Washington already went up.

So they're at $65 billion, $66 million. So he's doing a deal. He says, well, $4.9 billion, right? And then he says, so Washington, he said, go to say it's at $4.9 billion for your first year. Washington starts off at $8.6 billion. And then this deal comes in at $6.7 billion. This deal is at $9 million.

So you started in at 6.7. This deal is at 9 million. You know, so you started looking at it. Now I'm like disgusted at why they're showing me this because now it looks like I can't get these cars. And you're going to be up sooner too. You're going to be up two years earlier, which also played out well for you later on. And that's what they said. They said by the time the money matches, you will be out of this deal

signing, hopefully, a max deal. He said, so the Washington deal is still the best deal. So I'm like, so we're saying, you know I can get each one of y'all a car

and still have two cars to myself. Like, why are we being selfish here? Why are we being selfish, guys? I can give you a car. Like, come on, we can just, let's just run it. And it was like, and then Otis was like, listen. And then he said, and this is what really like stuck with me. He said, all right, Gil.

Jason Richardson is the franchise. You might be the best player, yeah, but Antoine is the franchise. Jason Richardson is the next upcoming.

Then you have Troy Murph. Then you have Dunley. You have Uri Welsh. And then you. Someone has to get screwed. All you guys can't get paid. They can't pay all of you. Someone's going to be screwed here.

The easiest person to screw is the person who is a 31 pick. You get a 31 pick. If you get hurt next year, that's $79 million off the table. Even if you sign that contract yet, they don't have to, they don't have to okay it. And I'm like,

it was like, then he talked about the Joe Smith thing. So I'm like, I'm sitting there like now, just like, like, yeah. Cause the Joe Smith thing is the first thing I think about.

But I mean, how much of this circumventing the cap do you think went on? Because that's what the cars are. That's what the prearranged year later agreement is. Yeah. Like, so I don't, you know, because they knew because. Before. So, you know, me signing the forty nine million, that was just so off the table. They're really, you know, we didn't even49 million, that was just so off the table. They didn't even negotiate.

They didn't even talk about that. They didn't even talk about me signing that $49 for $70 at that point. So, you know, it was basically, you know, we're signing for one year and then, you know, get you paid to follow it. And, you know, just, you know, with all of us being young, knowing that we all can't get paid is what really kind of pushed them out of the way. And then focused more on Washington and Clippers. It was mostly Washington, Clippers, and

Denver still, because we were still asking for the max. So what happened was when I actually signed to Washington for 65, Kiki and Clippers actually got maxed. Because it was like, 65? to Washington for 65, Kiki and Clippers actually got mad. Because it was like, 65? Wait, he was asking for 86.

We could have paid 60-something, and that was really the big deal there. And I think what ended up happening is because the cap hurt Washington, I mean, hurt Golden State, that they really argued with Stern about it. Because I did want to stay. Like, if they could have matched the 60, I would have been there. But they couldn't, and I think that's what the uproar

is about. That's why there's the Gilbert Arenas rule, so you can match with the second rounders now. There's still a lot more that I want to get to, so we may have to have you on again. You go to Washington, and this is the part that I was just happy for you, because at this point you're flirting with 30 a game. The one Cleveland playoff series, and I know you ran that I was just happy for you because at this point, you're flirting with 30 a game,

the one Cleveland playoff series. And I know you ran into him a couple other times, but at that point, you were hurt. And so you're arguably a top five player in the league there for a little while. You put up these kinds of numbers, and it's this four-year stretch. It's just nobody can guard you, man. Nobody can guard you. You're doing everything.

And I think there was always a perception, too, because i thought it was funny when you knew that the olympic team was already figured out ahead of time and you weren't going to be a part of it you were like fuck this i'm out of here and then you go i'm going to get 50 against you guys you did it against phoenix it seemed like maybe you got out of your game a little against portland because you were just like i want to give these guys 52 because i remember like looking forward to be like oh he's got portland i i'm just watching arenas against the Trailblazers. I was like, all right, this one didn't go as well as Phoenix. But on top of the injury history and then everything,

and then obviously, you know, we know that you got in trouble with Stern and the gun stuff. Like what, how quick did it feel like it was over? You know, it's funny. was over. You know, some funny, um, in real time, it felt like the longest dreadful ending of a movie ever. Because I forgot how little you were playing for some of those last couple stretches. Like, you know, go go ahead. Did not interrupt. You know, when I when I got hurt, when I got hurt,

maybe it was a big rift between me and the coaching staff. It was like, we hate each other. It became best friends to hating each other the very next night. Because we were thriving,

we were playing great, it's like 11 games before playoffs. And we're still messing with our lineup. You know, coach is still putting the two centers against each other. Who's going to play Eton or Brendan. We're still doing that. And I remember we're in Charlotte. So we got Charlotte on a back to back. We're playing in Charlotte and then at home against Charlotte. And I remember we're in the locker room, and I'm like, you know,

just one of those things that I was like, man, fuck this. Like, why are we still messing with the lineup? We should be getting ready for playoffs, and we're messing with the lineup still. Can we just fucking play basketball already, right? And then I remember coach was like do i tell you how to play this game don't tell me how to coach and i'm like i'm not telling you i'm just just a statement that we need to worry about you know so me and him like it was like a little

tiffle so on back-to-back games so when games are like that so usually i get to the gym around three o'clock 3 30 and i go to my routine so I want to be on the court, so I get on center court, and I shoot, fill around, get my shots up. Then I go to the practice gym, get my shots up. I'm there way earlier than anybody else, just going through my routine, filling the floor out, visualizing. That's what I do normal games. On back-to-backs, we have practice at 5 o'clock. I get there exactly 5.30. Don't know why. Most likely, I was late.

I was running late for a game, and then I probably had like 40, so that became the routine, right? You know how that's usually how something happens. So that means if I'm in the arena at 520, I do not get out of the car until 530. It's all calculated. So I just sit there.

For some reason. Just to jump in, by the way, I'm blown away how often this happens with you guys in the NBA. Or to prove a point, you will sit in the fucking parking lot until the minute you have to be there. So not to excuse you of it, but I hear about this all the time with guys.

So go ahead. It's rituals. Everyone has rituals. So something about 5.30. So this game, so this practice, so usually if it's Antonio Daniels will basically go through the shoot-around and then tell me everything that's going on, right?

That's just our deal, how we did it. He'd go through the shoot-around. So that was the thing. I wouldn't be in the shoot-around because I'm in the parking lot waiting until 5.30. So this game, I was like, you know what? Let me just get there early. So I'm on the court at five o'clock.

I got my, I don't have my uniform on. I still have my clothes on. So I'm part of the break, right? I'm part of that. And then I sit down, then they go to the shoot around and I'm just sitting there like, so we're just going to play Raven Felt

in the same way. We just got killed doing that shit. We're going to be, Okay, we don't learn. So I'm just looking at how we're playing the scouting part of my stuff. So, you know, go through my routine, getting ready for the game, and then Deshaun

Stevenson says, hey, coach, are we doing a lineup that you said before Gil got here? The lineup before Gil got here. We're coming? The lineup before Gil got here. And then he said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

He erased my name and put Antonio Daniels. So I said, man, get the hell no. You know what? I'm not even going to do this. I'm out of here. So I take my clothes off, get in the shower, put my shit on, and I'm leaving. I said, I'm not playing these games.

We got playoffs, and he's benching me because I talk shit, you know, the game before. Fuck that. So Karan was like, nah, man, come on. You got to do this for the team, man. Bill, please don't. You know, this is about us. It's not about him. I was like, yo, what did I do?

Right? And Deshaun said, he thought you was going not about him. I was like, yo, what did I do? Right? And Deshaun said, he thought you was going to be late. He thought you was going to be late. So he was benching you because you're late. I said, but I wasn't late. I wasn't late, though. I said, I know. That's why I asked.

So I said, so he basically snatched me out of the lineup for no reason because I actually wasn't late. And then he was like so i get something that's where i hurt my leg so when i hurt my leg you know it's like i'm worried about the leg like my up and then i get a call from deshaun stevenson and he said dog you should have heard what eddie jordan just said and i was? He's like, I'm glad he got hurt so I can prove that I can coach and we don't need a guy out there

trying to score 50 every night. And then that was the end. That was the end. So from there, it was just training. You know, from there, forget this injury. I'm training like a madman. So I didn't it was just training. From there, it was forget this injury. I'm training like a madman.

So I didn't take my rehab serious. I just wanted to just prove, just, you know, I just went into the summer just pretending like this injury didn't even happen. And then from there, it was just all downhill, just a long three, two years of just training and rehabbing. That is the worst thing for any athlete to sit there and watch the game pass them. You're just

watching other players do this. Just catch you or just surpass you. That was the thing that was eating me the most was that that's why i said it wasn't quick when it was happening it was like this is the slowest process ever and no athlete should ever go through something like this just injury after injury rehabbing after rehabbing and you kept trying to come back though like i think you probably admit i should have just shut it down i should have not pushed it you know and you kept trying to come back though like i think you probably admit i should have just shut it down i should have not pushed it you know and you just wanted to play and i got that now the

otis stuff makes sense because it was kind of the two contracts that could be traded for each other you were shark and otis brings you back to orlando can i can i ask you about though when when stern at this point he's so pissed at you you know he's pissed about the gun thing and then he's pissed about your introduction where you were shooting you know and you had to do an op-ed um I don't know if I can ask you this or not I don't know if you're going to get pissed um

was the guns really not loaded I'm not going to get were the guns really not loaded so why would you bring him in? Because he said he was going to do it. So it wasn't over gambling. It wasn't over gambling.

It was the fact that he was losing at gambling. By now, you guys know my personality. Yeah, I don't want to lose cards to you because I know he's going to be annoying as hell. I'm just i'm just the commentator i'm just sitting here poking at everybody you know so you know javar is one of those guys that you know he just he gets irritated fast he gets irritated fast you know that he was like my little brother so when he's yelling

i took it personal yo come on don't yell Don't yell at them because you're frustrated. You know what I mean? Because I can tell them that. Other than that, they would have started a fight right there, just any other player. So I'm the player that can actually talk to him and talk to him about it. So what ends up happening is just going through the process, right? So I'm reading all the rules of gun you know, gun charges in the NBA.

And I'm like, what am I, what am I actually guilty of? So, and I think by me telling Stern that, I think that's what pissed him off the most. So when we're in a meeting, we're in a meeting, he's telling us, oh yeah, we're going to do this. We're going to do that.

And I said, first of all, uh, you know, I bring up Steven Jackson. I said, Steven Jackson shot his gun outside of a club. Well, that's not NBA property. I'm pretty sure that if you take those people and say, Hey, here's four unloaded guns on a chair versus someone shooting a gun, which one would you rather be in? What scenario? Right? So he's seven games.

And then I said, you know, Telefer had a loaded gun on a plane. That's NBA property. That's three games. I said, someone had a gun in under the, in, I think in the, in the arena under, in a parking lot. That's part of the NBA arena. So I said, the most you can give me is three games,

but I don't want three games. I'll take one. So that's how fucking cocky I was at the point. And I said... You said this to Stern? Yeah. No wonder you got crushed.

And he was like... He was like... So you got to remember, he already has what he's thinking of doing, right? 50 games. And I'm like, I'm not taking no fucking 50 games. Like, this is what this is. And I said,

first of all, what am I guilty of? He's like, you brung guns. Says who? Me? I said those were mine. Never said I brung them. If they

checked any of the weapons, no fingerprints. I said, so I don't know how those guns got in there. There's no proof of me touching. I've never been around them. I didn't touch them. I didn't grab them. I didn't actually do nothing but say,

those were mines. That's all I'm guilty of. Those were mines. So I said, man man maybe I don't claim them anymore they're not mine anymore if you want to give me 50 games they're not mine anymore they're not mine anymore

and that was my stance they're not mine anymore and he was like you can see the anger you can see the anger in You can see the anger in his face. What did he say? And then he hit me with some shit that just, it just,

he said, Oh, okay. Um, you just lost your Adidas deal. And I, right. Um,

how about this? If you fight me on this, if you fight me on this, I will take your NBA contract. Oh. Oh, shit. Wasn't expecting that one. Wait, what? He's like, I will take and do everything in my power to take your NBA contract.

You have about $88 million left, right? That's exactly what I have left. now this is the same guy who when jason kidd tried to leverage him for picking him in the all-star in olympics jason kidd said you know if i don't get picked for an all-star i'm not playing in olympics right jason kidd just did that and dav David Stern went with me as a sub in that 2005-06 All-Star game. So I'm like, I know what he's capable of. I know what he's capable of. So I was like, I already lost my Adidas contract, so I'm not even going to take the chance here. So I'm just going to shut the fuck up. And that, that was basically it. He just basically said,

if, if I don't take the deal, then he's going to go after my NBA contract. So basically it was like, take this deal, 50 games and continue your career. Or you can try to come back this season and I'm going to go after that NBA contract.

So you made, yeah, you made the right choice at that point. You know, last thing, I don't know, you know, this,

have you, have you ever talked to Javaris? Oh, we talk all the time. We talk, we talk, we talk, we talk,

uh, at least we text him probably like twice a week. We talk about basketball, we talk about basketball. We talk about basketball. It's like what's so funny is like after the whole thing, you know, went down, he got in trouble. We became brothers again. You know, it's like even during when we were going through it and he was having financial problems, he hit me. I said, hey, GA, I know you're not going to take it personal.

Is there a way I can, you know, borrow some money for, you know, my mom's surgery and stuff like that? And he was like, oh, yeah, no problem. I never took it personal of what happened. It just happened. It was more business than anything. And that was the thing that I had to ask myself. If I was Washington Wizards and this fell upon me, what would I do? The same thing.

I got a guy who's had three knee surgeries, probably not going to be the same player, has this really, really expensive contract that A. Poland gave him. We told A. Poland not to do it, and A. Poland was like, that's my guy. You know, so the fact that we had this contract, I will be trying to get off of it too. You know, so, you know, once I put that in mind, you know, what I will do, I never really had any hard feelings

for Washington after that. But it took me a couple years to get to that point. Yeah, I understood. I mean, the other thing too is like you're kind of out of the league at 30. So as we're talking this all through, you're mid-20s, late-20s, and some things I think you would admit now

like you deserve criticism for, but I also think there were times too that you just wanted to come back and play. Yeah. I'm not saying you didn't screw up. You know what I mean? No, no, no.

Right. I did that. Right. Okay, so when I went to Memphis, this is what really like mentally I was like, okay, I'm, I'm over it. Um, I'm in Memphis. I have a Pargo and Josh Shelby. So I had the young Pargo, Jeremy Pargo and Josh Shelby, the rookies. So they're asking me, you know, they're asking me like, yo, what do you do? How do you get better? You know, and I'm like teaching them my workout routines. I'm teaching them how to get to the, you know, we're going to take a cab, get there early, get your shot. I said all that first bus crap, that's for people who are NBA players.

I'm going to teach you how to be superstars, how to be elite. So we're going to go to the gym early. We're going to get our shots. We're going to, you how to be superstars, how to be elite. So we're going to go to the gym early. We're going to get our shots. We're going to, you know, the night before the game. So I'm giving them my whole, whole package of success, right? These kids work their butts off, but you know, the coach didn't believe in young players, right? So that's why they broke me on because they didn't trust the young process at that time so watching these kids you know you know i'm working with them you know i'm having i'm having a little success during the game you know playing spot military there um they're trying

to they want to bring me back for the next season i hurt my finger right before playoffs you know um playing you know josh one-on-one, you know, just getting them ready. They're bringing me, they're trying to bring, they want to bring me back, you know, so I can be there from the beginning. And I'm like, as long as I'm on that court, as long as I'm on any team,

any young player is going to sit behind me. No veteran, no coach who wants to win games is going to put them in before me. Why am I going to block somebody else's blessing? You know, like I had my chance. I blew it. I'm not going to sit and just sit on this bench collecting checks, playing spot minutes, being mediocre when someone else

can be living their dream. And that's when I just stopped picking up the phone. And that's how it ended. It wasn't really... Like, I mean, I tried to make a comeback like in the summer,

you know, you get the jitters. I played for the Clippers. I was with the Clippers in the comeback in the summer. You get the jitters. I played for the Clippers. I was with the Clippers in the beginning of the summer, killing them. And then I went to the Lakers. And this was when Steve Mashnam came. And I was bullying Steve Mash and Steve Blake. Eddie Jordan just got there.

And I'm looking phenomenal. But they're packed. So if you look at USC, Clippers tried to offer me or try to send me to training camp. They just signed J.J. Redick, I think. So I'm like, J.J. Redick, Jamal Crawford, I wouldn't be playing here.

But Lakers, oh yeah, I can actually play for the Lakers at this point. This is like 2013, I think. So I told Eddie, he was like, so what's your plans? And I was like, the fact that you guys can't pick me up until somebody gets hurt.

I was thinking about going to China, go there, get my confidence back, go there and shoot the ball a hundred times, you know, a game, get my swagger back. And shoot the ball a hundred times you know a game get my swagger back and then you know i'll be ready you know probably all-star weekend and they were like well you can go to our d league and then play here and i was like i'd rather go to china than the d league you know especially since china was offering 750 right so i was like you know i go to china and then um and then just come back you know, I'll go to China. I'll go to China and then

just come back. The offense you're running is my offense, so I know that like the back of my hand. So then they were coming in and putting the Princeton in. So I was like, I don't need any work on that. So went there, got hurt, and then

just tracking back down. I'm injured more than I'm playing, and then from there, I was just like, I'm just going to let this go. This was awesome, man. I really appreciate the time, and hopefully we can do it again. All right, Gilbert?

Anytime. Make sure you check out Gilbert on the No Chill Podcast, Fubo again, and we'll talk to you soon. All right. Thank you for having me. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com A couple statements need to be issued, perhaps,

from the podcast. The first being we know that Gottlieb's picks didn't work out. We are aware. We have heard from you. You have a voice on this show, and you have used it. And I don't know what to tell you. Sometimes some brackets don't work out for guys.

I actually think I have his bracket in front of me. I think, you know, the podcast, my association is now it's all being said that all of our picks were terrible. I don't know. I feel like it's a little unfair. The risky round. Right. We still have two final fours alive. We've got both West semi-finalists alive.

Kentucky obviously out early. When you lose a two seed and you're national champion in the first round to a 15 seed St. Peter's, it's not going to give seed and you're national champion in the first round to a 15 seed St. Peter's, it's not going to give you a great chance to win in the office pool.

We are aware of that. Arizona, Nova still alive. Auburn, not the case. We try to tell everybody about the guards forever, but he had them going to the finals. So, yeah, that's an issue.

Your finals matchup is already done before you even got to like Sunday. Tough first game. Yeah, not the best time you've ever had if you were doing one of those brackets. So, he had

no lower of Ohio State though. Don't hear too many people complimenting that. So yeah, we'll try to do better. We'll try to do better in the future. They only talk about your L's, Ryan. That's what they never talk about the W's. Come on.

No, they never talk about the W's. But let's face it. There were a lot of L's coming for you on this one, especially when you're losing your finals matchup before the sun goes down on Sunday. So there you go.

But noted. We want you to know that we heard you. We received the feedback and we will act accordingly. Yeah, we'll get better. We'll get better. We're going to use this. That's on us. Yeah, that's the Russell Wilson talk.

Oh, my God. I love, by the way, one of my, I don't do this very often, but one of my favorite things over the last week was looking at russell wilson videos being introduced and seeing everybody with a broncos jersey on and an avatar defending everything being like no you could definitely watch all their offensive snaps three times in the course of vacation like that's how he's built he's just built different how do you not get it and you're like yeah no i Yep, that's right. It would definitely make a ton of sense to watch an offense you're not going to run three times.

That's why I respected Mike McCarthy when he got the Cowboys job. He was like, yeah, I watched. What was it? I watched every Cowboys game from last year. And then he was like, actually, I just lied to get the job. I actually respect that. I respect that he was like, yeah, I just tried to get the job and I lied. It is what it is. Russ actually believed. I mean, who knows? Maybe he did and I'm an idiot. He did. First of all, he didn't. It doesn't seem like it's possible, but you never know. It's Mr. Unlimited. Who knows?

Right. No, if there's a train in our heads, you'd be like, well, where is this train going? Well, this train's going to Common Sense. This train's going to a sandwich for lunch, maybe some chicken and rice for dinner. Russ is like, do you have a train to insane comp town?

And you're like, yeah, I'm going to get on this one. And so it's just hilarious because I've look, I can figure this out very early on. And then now he was doing the presser. And you should be pumped because he's an awesome quarterback. And you could argue that he would watch the offense to evaluate receivers, evaluate tight ends, even though their best tight end went back in the trade. Looking at offensive linemen and all that kind of stuff. But I mean, that's just not what he did. Like, if you can't figure this stuff out now at this point, I can't help you.

but i mean that's just not what he did like if you can't figure this stuff out now at this point i can't help you but the funny part was that seattle fans who have defended it forever were like oh this guy he didn't watch it and i was just looking at all the battles and it was hilarious to me because then it'd be some guy like you know i don't know i'm trying to throw out a weird denver town unless i'm just not going to and he he'd be like, whatever. He's super dedicated. Like, what are you talking about? And you're like, you know, no, no, I get it. I get it. I get it. That's fine. Enjoy. Um, I, I just can't believe some of the quotes. And by the way, did skip have a thing the other day where he said he's watched every LeBron game and he's tweeted about every LeBron game in existence. He said he may have missed one or two games his rookie year

and that's it. Okay But he's watched every game. Yeah, because one of the origins of Skip and I not liking each other is when he said he'd watch every Chris Paul game going all the way back to college. Because I've had this longstanding thing where I've said, don't get as mad as you do against guys that talk for a living about these teams, because we don't watch your team as much as you do. I have lots of opinions on lots of teams. have lots of opinions on the bulls if you're a really locked in bulls fan there's no chance i watch your team as much as you have because i need to watch other games too so sometimes i'm not going to know it as well as you do i'm also not going to be emotionally attached to whatever my observation is so the whole thing but yes skip one point said about chris. He was like, I've watched every one of his games going all the way back to college. And I was like, that's just not true. There's no way you did that. Like it's not. So

I don't know. I don't know why guys do that kind of stuff, but they do it. All right. Life advice moving on. Uh, Ryan female 29, five, three, one 33. All right. I've given up most forms of exercise in favor of the Melissa Wood Health 15-minute workout. I don't know what that is, but somebody going to research that? Yeah. Are we being fucked with here? Or is that a real thing? If it's a real thing, who knows? Spreading the word.

I'm involved in a little mystery that my boyfriend and his friend, I don't know if we include names here. Let's just change them around. Mystery that my boyfriend and his friend Todd are obsessed with getting the bottom of. They asked me to write you to see how you would handle it. I like the life advice segment. Would never listen to your podcast other than that. No offense. Hey, not the first female I've heard say that to me.

Hear it almost every day. so here's the situation a while back i threw a birthday party for myself that was casino themed and everyone dressed up in high roller attire it's about 15 friends uh 15 of my friends in my apartment look at you bragging about all 15 of your friends how about this person huh super popular um that's a joke about us by the way it's too many friends right it's a lot of friends

one of my friends had a friend of hers in town let's call her Debra so she came to the party Debra embraced the theme and wore a pair of expensive trendy sunglasses

that she had just bought as part of her high roller outfit at some point in the night she took off the glasses ended up leaving without them. Long story short, the glasses were nowhere to be found, and everyone concluded that clearly another party guest

had gone home with them. This was slightly awkward for me, as these weren't random people, but my close friends. I texted my friends and asked if anyone had seen the glasses, and one replied that she hadn't seen them, but joked that she'd been very drunk, so it was possible she'd taken them. We never brought it up again.

Recently, I went to this friend's apartment, and I saw a pair of glasses in her room that I've never seen her wear. After leaving, I put together that these might actually be Debra's glasses. Do I A, try to get another look at the glasses? B, wait for her to wear them in front of me? C, confront her about it? D, just let it go at this point? I'm inclined to choose D because this is one of my best friends and I don't think it's that huge of a deal, but my boyfriend and Todd find the whole thing hilarious and want me to confront her. Thanks, Bestie.

I appreciate your consideration of this matter. P.S. My boyfriend says UVM winning the NCAA tournament would be the absolutely craziest thing that's happened to me. Yes, that would be super crazy. She thinks UVM's underrated. UVM lost. Target's off. So we're not going to worry about that at this point. All She thinks UVM is underrated. UVM lost. Target's off. So we're not going to worry about that at this point.

All right. A lot of options here. I am not a steal people's shit guy. I think it's really fucked up. And I think when you realize that the person that bought the thing that you stole is always going to have this kind of like, look, they'll eventually get over the hole in their life. I don't know how long it takes for sunglasses. I imagine a pet takes a little bit longer than a pair of shades, but you get my point that you're always kind of like, oh, whatever happened to those? And when you can't solve the mystery, it's usually because somebody fucking stole them. And so I think your friend saying, oh, I maybe would have taken them. I don't know.

Cause I was drunk. She's admitting she definitely took them. All right. Am I a hundred percent on it? No, but I'm pretty close to a hundred percent. If you're going to say like, Oh, I don't remember seeing them, but who knows with me, I was so drunk. Maybe I took them. Why would you say that unless you probably took them? So I know what you're also saying is you're doing the math, which is smart on, do I confront the person that's always been in my life and will continue to be in my life about stealing sunglasses that I think we all know she stole them to be like hey why did you steal those I need them back and cause some sort of conflict there even though your friend is the one that's wrong um to then get the shades back to the friend of a friend where apparently

you're based on this the information there's not going to be a lot of interaction there down the road uh you better be sure though right as sure as I think I am right now, we're not a hundred percent on it. So if it is one of your best friends, you could go over there. You could, I don't know how you're going to confirm it. You could take a picture of it. And then if you show that picture to the friend of a friend, Deborah, whose glasses they may originally ban. And then she's like, yeah, those are mine. That's bullshit. She stole them. I want them back. Now you're forced to have to deal with something that's much bigger than what you have to deal with right now. So selfishly, yes, you could look at it as, you know, I'm not, I'm not looking to be fucking Batman here. You know, this is not with great power comes great

responsibility. Like maybe I just don't want to deal with all this stuff. I do think it's kind of fucked up that your friend would steal the glasses, be drunk and steal them. You could ask her about it. Maybe she'd just totally come clean and be like, I'm so embarrassed. And then after the fact, I didn't want to say anything. But I think that she's not embarrassed. I think she's almost running it by you because she knows that deep down she did it the whole

time. So there's a very easy way out of this by saying, I'm just not dealing with any of it. You keep your friend, there's no conflict. There's no part of it. That's weird. Cause I imagine if you're a person that steals shit, you don't like being called out for it because you're a fucking thief. Um, and you know, then you're the hero for this other person you're not really friends with. And then your boyfriend and then the other guy, like mystery solved and all this stuff. So I think selfishly, like most people would choose that option being like i just don't want to have to deal with all this kind of stuff but i don't know man i i would

probably i would probably say something to one of my friends being like why did you steal that like what did you do and you know we need because then think about their position. What's their position? How dare you call me out for something that I stole and return it to the rightful owner, you asshole? Like, say that out loud, right? So I imagine most people would choose the first option. I'm not saying that you have to do the second option. But I just think when people, I just think, like I said, I've had so much stuff stolen from me over the years. And then I've had a couple of people steal shit and then I would see it later and be like, oh, yeah. You're like, no, not fucking. Like you stole my shit from my house.

You knew it was stolen. You knew I'd asked about it. There's this one T-shirt I'd had from high school still. I don't know how the thing survived. I fucking loved it. And then it got stolen by a girl because it was an awesome t-shirt. And then, I don't know, a year and a half later, I saw it and I'd asked about it like two or three times. I knew it was stolen. And then it was like the person got busted and then acted like it was some big joke. And I'm

like, no, it wasn't fucking funny. I asked you about it. You stole it. You lied about it. And now you're busted and we're all just supposed to have a laugh about it so i don't know i don't really have a definitive answer yeah sad kyle very sad go ahead um i just think a you definitely have to make sure that it is because basically all she said is i saw a pair of sunglasses that i've never seen her wear before and i mean what do you guys like share a room like how do you know if she wears glasses all the girls know? Girls know about each other's accessories. That's fair.

That's fair. But all she said, she's like, later I put it together. So, I mean, yeah, maybe find out. The other thing I would say is, what if you just like went a little reconnaissance, just fucking stole them back. And then, I mean, that would, how awkward would that be if then were there altogether again? And she knows that the glasses she stole are missing. sees them on the on the girl who they belong to

like that might just be enough of a mind fuck where everybody gets a little penance anyway if you go over steal them back as long as you're sure that those are the ones but that's what ryan said you have to know that these are the that these are the sunglasses that were stolen first off i love the dude the boyfriend being like yeah i confront her like because that's 100 what i would do even though it's not the right thing to do at all it's just to egg somebody on and be like do it you won't um i don't know what the end game there is other than like his personal enjoyment so i wouldn't say it's the best advice but uh why if you are sure first off she said hey should i wait until she you know is wearing them in front of me yes at that point like i think you should probably

say something. But until you really know, like, what are you stupid around a room and you see these sunglasses and you're like, oh, you know, how do you explain that away? It's kind of awkward to explain. So I just think you have to absolutely know. And then once it's really painfully obvious, then you just kind of pull her aside and be like, I know what the deal is. What the hell is going on? And just confront her. Because what she is, as you said, what's she going to get mad at you for that?

Like, it's her it's her problem. She stole the sunglasses. so just make sure you're sure um and i think you know confront her on the side to see what's up yeah you know you could also double check with the original person be like hey look we're we have a cleaning person coming or whatever you know something like that like can you send me a picture of what the exact sunglasses look like so that way you can match them up without having to ask your friend about what it was i do think too for anyone that's had a rough night or two in their life if this is not her tendency if she doesn't normally steal shit

if she was hammered at your birthday party and she did something she doesn't normally do and it's totally out of character um i i would be a little more lenient of like it happens like yeah it happens i again i'm not endorsing it but let's be honest with ourselves here too and realize that people do some fucked up stuff when they're hammered and then it's like okay is this what you do do you always go to parties and get wasted and steal shit okay well then but if you don't i think there's a way to handle it too to be like hey i know you were super banged up but like did you grab those but the weird part about it go ahead is that she like she she almost wanted to get caught by the way that as you said by the way that she like said hey i could have been me i don't know like you know whatever it's almost

like when you watch those like true crime things or whatever and like there's a serial killer and after a while they just get lazy because they want to get caught like they're leaving breadcrumbs here and they're like that's what this situation is it's almost like she wants you to know that she actually did steal them even though you can't actually pin her down on it's just it's an odd it's an odd dynamic i didn't think we'd get to a serial killer comp there but here we are alright I got another email here this one is from Joseph and he said hey huge limewire guy back in the day

nice Kazaa more of a Kazaa guy and he said that at one point he had the FBI reach out to him about copyright infringement and he's worried as he's applying for a new job is this something that stays on your record short answer no it happened wait what goes all right how does how does one handle a copyright infringement accusation from

the feds i'll tell you my dad wasn't happy i can tell you that much all right back up let's start tell us he got the entire he gave me his old laptop uh i think it was, I think I was in like ninth or 10th grade. He gave me his old laptop and he taught me how to burn CDs. That's it. He taught me how to burn CDs. And it had this cool little printer in the laptop that would like print out a little thing on the top of a CD. That's it. He was like, isn't this cool? You can make like mixed tapes and CDs and stuff. So I start burning movies immediately. I started immediately getting blockbuster movies, burning them. Um, and I would even print it out, um, little, um, like covers for DVDs. And my, one of my big ones was pride and glory. I thought pride and glory was a great movie. So I burned, I burned like 20 copies of pride and glory. And then I don't know,

I would sell them in school. There's no way the FBI knew that we could know that, but I don't know. It just, there was a, a, a letter from the FBI that was basically a cease and desist. My dad was like, I got to take your laptop from you. What the hell are you doing? Lost the laptop for a little while. FBI sent a letter to the house, and it was addressed to him, not me, I think. I don't know. I don't think anything ever came from that so so pride and glory almost brought down your family gavin o'connor film yeah by the way solid great great bar fight colin farrell yeah colin farrell great bar fight scene in there i tell you colin farrell to me

stock could not be more mispriced it's just his he's so good in that Northwater show that I don't know how many people saw on AMC, but it's worth the free AMC trial to watch Colin Farrell. Like, huh, I've been whoring all night and my whistle's dry. That's what he says.

Is that the line? I don't know. He's like really thirsty and he goes to a bar the next day and he doesn't have any money and he's he spent the entire night with prostitutes and then he's he's at the bar and he's trying to figure out a way to get a drink and he is like he comes out his for the introduction to his character he is throwing 105 miles an hour on the paint. It's just unbelievable. And after the lobster, too, with Colin Farrell.

Okay, so, all right, you get the letter. Were you unfazed or phased? I was phased. I was phased because I was, like, 15. I was like, wow, FBI knows who I am. I'm 15. That's crazy. But I never stopped using, like, the other LimeWire stuff, but it was specifically for the I am. I'm 15. That's crazy. But I never stopped using like the other

limewire stuff, but it was specifically for the DVDs that I was making, that I was burning. And I don't know if it was because it was Blockbuster that they knew. I don't know how anybody knew. I have no idea, no idea how they knew that I was taking a CD, copying it onto another CD in the privacy of my home. Honestly, I wonder if it was illegal. They were spying on me. But I really just, I don't know how it happened, but I was phased. And I was more phased

by how freaked out my dad was. But nothing ever happened. But it was never, it never came up again. I think it's just easier for them to send a thing, to send a letter to someone. It's the scare tactic.

Yeah. That's what it is. Because I actually had a few guys get those. And because one of them, one of my friends in high school was like selling bootleg Revenge of the Sith DVDs. And I got one. And he got a them, some one of my friends in high school was like selling bootleg Revenge of the Sith

DVDs and I got one and he got a letter, but nothing ever came out of it. And I still have the DVD to this day. It's awesome. But I think movies are probably a bigger deal than music.

I think especially back then because with the money involved or whatever. But I knew a couple people that got those letters and nothing ever came out of it. Guys are just calling out the feds left and right.

It's like having a camera that's not plugged in, right? It's cheaper to do that than actually have to wire everything up. Maybe it deters some people, so who knows. So you're saying it never came up in an interview with the Parks Department in Poughkeepsie. Correct.

Correct. No, didn't stop me from getting the Models gig either. The Models gig, youngest manager in the Northeast. That's what we're telling people. So, alright, so this guy doesn't... Don't worry, pal. You're fine. I don't know. If there was never a step two,

you're fine. You should probably stop doing it, though. We should compare letters. I think I still have mine. Here's what I would ask. I would ask this question, though. In the 80s and 90s, if you you're gonna make a girl a mixtape on cassette nobody looked at it that way nobody looked at it as like because there was an art of the mixtape too and how you wanted to you know open you already had to buy it all right you you had to

buy the cassette already right or you can radio it's the same thing well yeah i mean guys guys recording off the radio i mean you know it never quite came out the way you wanted to you know that was that was like very early on guys would hold up a recorder to the radio and record off the off the speaker that way and then you'd play it like we did that in elementary school thinking we were fucking killing it that's how i used to get my ringtones back in the day like yeah man i got like six six songs from thriller on this cassette right here this is like six yeah you hear you talking in the background yeah yeah yeah so your mom's yelling at you to turn it down in the back you're like all right ignore that part um yeah but that was uh i think you closed a little van

morrison for a mixtape if you know you were interested in the ferris x so there you go uh nice yeah mood dance i still kind of want to get back to you like pride and glory that much you just needed to spread the word yeah there was that i thought it was great and i was like you know i bet you a lot of people haven't seen this. And we were getting the Blockbuster thing in the mail when they were still competing with Netflix. So I was just like, and it wasn't only Pride and Glory, but I remember I made like 10 or 15 copies of Pride and Glory. Because I even would print out the sheet and put it in there and make it all nice. And you weren't selling it?

I was. Oh, you were. I made like 15 Pride and Glories and I did some other ones. It was a bit of a hobby though. I enjoyed doing it. Wait, wasn't there something on... Can we look this up? Was there any kind of tracking device on Blockbuster DVDds that they knew they

were being put in a burner so this is how it happens maybe that's how they got found out i thought there was something to that or it might have just been a scare tactic back in the day also could it be that too yeah do you believe that when blockbuster we see the documentary on blockbuster going out of business, do you feel remotely guilty at all? Like if I just maybe five less Pride and Glories, they might still be around. Could be. Honestly, I think it hurts the Pride and Glory people more than the Blockbuster people probably, right? Yeah, I don't know.

Well, if anybody interviews, if Bill interviews Gavin O'Connor at some point, we'll be like, hey, you know, our residuals on Pride and Glory were lower than our projections. New York Times had a thing in 2007. It's a sigh of relief for blockbuster few people copy dvds a new study found that only one percent of internet users use software to defeat copy protection on dvds i did not use anything to defeat the copy protection so maybe that's where maybe that's where that letter came from straight Straight shooter. Yeah. You should be, you should get a 1% or tattoo. I think that covers it. Yeah. Today's podcast.

Life, life advice, rr at gmail.com. Thanks to Kyle and Steve as always. And to subscribe, Ryan Russell podcast for your Spotify. Thank you. you