The Ryen Russillo Podcast - The Annual NFL Quarterback Tiers With Mike Sando, Plus College Football Playoff Picks

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Russillo starts the show with his college football predictions and shares his 12-team playoff picks (1:15). Then, Mike Sando comes on to break down his NFL quarterback tiers and talk about which QBs rose and fell and who has the potential to improve (17:26). Plus, a mini British Columbia travelogue and Life Advice with Kyle and Ceruti (52:30)! How do we handle a friend ruining our night with a weird comment? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Mike Sando Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's been too long and we're headed back on the road. And this time we have a special one in the works. We're headed to Philly and I'll be joined by my friend and your favorite former Eagle, Super Bowl champ, Chris Long. It'll be Tuesday, October 1st at 8 p.m. We'll be live from the Fillmore, Philadelphia. We'll talk headlines with Dishout Life Advice, Kyle and Sriddi. And of course, catch up and talk a ton of ball with Chris Long.

Again, that's Tuesday, October 1st at the Fillmore, Philadelphia. Tickets are on sale now. Go to theringer.com slash events for more information. See you there. It's a big day on the podcast. The annual NFL quarterback tiers piece from Mike Sando in the athletic is out. We're gonna run through all the different quarterbacks, see what the NFL coaching and

executive world are saying about all of your favorite or least favorite QBs. College football has officially already started, but the big weekend is this weekend. I'm going to run through just a bunch of storylines that I like and then try to pick the 12 teams for the playoff. And we've got a recap of heading to British Columbia, a little Victoria, a little Whistler, a little Squamish, a little Pemberton. We've got it for you and a longer life advice because we were just happy to see each other. Enjoy.

Let's talk some college football. I'm excited end of August, first full weekend ahead. I'm going to do some predictions, but I'll just be completely honest with you. College football is entirely different than looking at the NFL or NBA for obvious reasons. NBA, you kind of know the vibe of the team. Do they have one of the top five players? Do they have any of the top 10 players? You can write off the teams that don't have it, NFL quarterbacks, some of the

carryover despite the ups and downs, but there's so much turnover now in college football, really even more so now than ever before, we can look at talent. We can look at recruiting rankings. We can transfer stuff, the coaches we like, we don't like. But for the most part, when you read a ton of college previews, and I used to read everything, and then I had this epiphany where I go, dude, everything is overwhelmingly positive. Every new coordinator is a solution to the previous problem. That just doesn't, the math does not work out that everybody is now better situated

than they were the previous year through all these different changes. So sometimes I can get a little too caught up and be like, is anybody worried about their team? And there will be teams where we'll see a few weeks into the season. We go, okay, this unit's a huge problem. Their O line isn't good. They don't get any pressure with the D line. The receivers are getting separation.

This quarterback hasn't figured it out yet, but in college football, because it is so new each year and it's why in the past, whenever you looked at the preseason rankings, you were like, did you win your bowl game as the quarterback back, okay, you're 12th in the country. I mean, that's as simple as it was for a lot of this stuff. So I'm not providing you a, an alternative that that's a better model and trying to figure this stuff out. I'm just saying it's, it's more unknown and even more so now than we've ever

dealt with in years past. So if we look at what everyone is saying and look at the talent disbursed throughout college football, it's pretty clear that everybody feels like Ohio State's the most talented team in the country. And I'm not going to argue that. Uh, one of the biggest stories with this off season of Ohio State is how much money they've raised through their collectives. ESPN.com has this piece up where you talk about the transfer portal,

all the money they brought in. And ultimately it feels very political, right? Because Michigan wins a title, and Michigan's won the last three times they faced each other. Ohio State fans are so pissed off. They're not just fans, people involved with the team, administrators, university, coaching staff,

all the collectors, like enough of this. It's like hating somebody in power so much that you cut a check to the other candidate. That's what it feels like. There are two quotes that I thought were really interesting. The first from Tyvis Powell, who was part of the 2014 national championship team, who's part of one of the collective said, quote, this was the first year that people were very generous donating money to collectives. Again, just the concept that you're buying the sweatshirts, you're going to the games, you're paying for parking, you're buying whatever package to watch the games

that you can't go to, and then you're like, I hate Michigan so much, here's 75 bucks. I'm not sending it to my grandkid for his birthday. The second quote from someone else involved said, quote, money began pouring in from small donors as well. Again, hating the opponent so much that you're willing to cut a check. So, however cynical you may be

about the motivations of athletes and certainly with college probably becoming more cynical with everything, I think it's a real thing to be on this Ohio State roster and be one of the older players that's never been Michigan. I still believe in something like that, that it bothers. Imagine going to a house date and saying, well, I guess I'm just gonna leave,

having never beat Michigan. I think that's a tough hang when you come back for alumni weekend. And I think there's what, six guys that were projected to be first or second round picks that decided to come back. And we can talk about the money part of it being available and I'm not dismissing it, but I'd like to believe that decided to come back. And we can talk about the money part of it being available and I'm not dismissing it, but I'd like to believe

that it matters enough to this group of players that are older on this roster that they didn't want to leave Columbus without ever beating the Wolverines. So I think that's kind of a cool thing here. The next part of this storyline for Ohio State is Will Howard, the transfer from Cade State. I know what you've read. I've read the same stuff that he was going to lose his job to

Avery Johnson at Kansas State anyway, and that's why he transferred. So if you want to be a little harsh on it and you're going, okay, well, this is your transfer and he was going to lose his job in the big 12. But look, he doesn't throw a lot of picks. He's massive. And if you want to use him in the run game, he's just a bull out there. And if he takes care of the football with this talent and the way the schedule works out, it's kind of one of those don't screw it up moments, but you're going to see them be a little bit more aggressive than probably some of the times you felt like Ohio state just couldn't complete those third and longs

against the better football teams last year. If you look at the big 10 with Ohio State for however many years you wanna go back and do this exercise, the problem that I always had in comparing them to say the other top teams in the SEC is it just felt like 11 out of 12 games, it's automatic that the talent gap is massive between whoever Ohio State,

who they are and whoever they're playing, right? Other than obviously Michigan the last couple of years. And I'd say even like two years ago, I thought Ohio State was more talented, didn't work out. All right, doesn't years. And I'd say even like two years ago, I thought our house date was more talented, didn't work out. All right. It doesn't matter. But I think in those other 11 games, like this is significant

whenever you watch them play. And it wasn't the same challenge as a night, another title contender in the sec so with expansion, I think the first thing to do is go, okay, well now the big 10 is going to be that much tougher, which it should be when you bring in these four teams from out West. But if you look at the way Ohio State schedule actually breaks, the non-conferences Akron, Western Michigan, Marshall, they've got to visit out to Eugene on October 12th. But if you look at their schedule and they finished with Michigan at home, Ohio State traditionally has always been really good at playing one of the other

big boys and their non-conference. It kind of feels like the same thing. So even with the expansion and then Michigan at home, just look at Oregon as a non-conference game, even though it is now one of the nine, it's not as daunting as some of this other stuff that you're seeing with schools in the expansion of the two major conferences in the Big Ten and the SEC. So, look, I think they win the conference, but I'm not sure I'm gonna pick them and win the national championship.

We take a look at the SEC and the preseason rankings. They have four of the top 16s in the country. They have seven of the top 15. They finished last year if you include Texas, which can be a little misleading because there would just be more losses in there if they were in the conference. Not necessarily Texas being the center of the point, right? year if you include Texas, which can be a little misleading because there would just be more losses in there if they were in the conference. Not necessarily Texas being understand the point, right? Um, with six of the top 12. So how many teams are they actually going to get in here? So if you look at seven of the top 15, maybe Tennessee is going to be really good as well.

I've read about Nico Iamaljava probably 20 times, uh, just this off season. We'll see. So will they get four? This is where the preseason rankings can mess things up a bit with the preconceived notions that we have with teams. We don't really have anything else to go on. I remember there was this one voter years ago where he was trying his hardest to just say, I bring nothing to the table.

I start a clean slate every single week. I don't want to assume anything about any teams, but it's actually an impossible exercise because if you had a team that was unranked in the preseason rankings, beating a good team in week one, and then you go, okay, I'm starting from scratch and I'm just gonna put them way at the top.

It's like, okay, but you are also still guilty of believing the team that they beat based on the preseason rankings was an incredible win. And that may not be the case. So I don't know if we're gonna have two of these SEC teams beat disasters. Are they all gonna be really good and they only pick each other off once

and it all kind of balances out and you end up with a bunch of these teams with really good records? It may take us until November until we find out like one or two of these teams just isn't even close and should have never been ranked this high, but in those first few weeks, if somebody's beating one of these other teams

of the top 15 preseason ranking, we're going to think that it's actually a good win. If you look at last year's rankings, teams number eight through number 12 were all two-loss teams, including number 12 Oklahoma, but Liberty would have been the number 12 in the playoff seating with this year's model. So if you're looking at a three-loss SEC team,

you go, do they get in? Do they get the benefit of the doubt? And I'm going to get to that when I talk about the big 12 a little bit later. But if you go back two years ago, Utah, number eight case data, number nine, both had three losses, but granted they were both conference champs. So not at large, but if you go through the rankings or other years, there's going to be three loss that could happen this year, there's going to be a three loss team that gets the at large bid before that number 12 spot.

When I look at Bama for De Boer, it would have been bad enough if they were to miss the playoff in the old format. If he doesn't make it in the 12 team format post Saban, it's just going to be, they could still be a decent team, but you just know how it's going to go down there in Tuscaloosa because it's going to be a feeling they haven't felt in a really long time. Notre Dame, just a quick aside on them. I love Riley Leonard when he's healthy. We know that he's a baller. I think they get too much criticism overall as a program

because they come in at preseason number seven. Some of this stuff just is so repetitive. Why do you give a shit they don't play in a conference? Who cares? They've been preseason top 13, six straight years, and I've seen it where it's like, Oh, here we go again. Everybody likes Notre Dame. Well, if you look at where they finished in the six years, they've been ranked in the top 13 in the preseason. They have finished in the top 15, four years. They finished number three, number four, number five.

They had final rankings at number 21 and number 16 in the last two years. That's not great, but it's not this massive disappointment. It's because you can label Notre Dame as different, they catch more shit for it. Losing in a playoff game and getting smoked, there's this lingering feeling like, oh, these guys again. When in reality, they're kind of holding up better, I think, than people give them credit.

The ACC, I have no idea. I know everybody liked Florida State. They were the betting favorite before the season started. They lose to Georgia Tech. We all watched on Saturday. I do love Haynes King for Georgia Tech. I know he didn't light it up statistically. I just think he's really tough going back to when he was at A&M. But clearly Florida State in this new version of things is still in it at number 10 in the preseason And then we'll see where that goes because they didn't update the rankings until after this weekend Clemson's at 14 Miami's at 19 and then NC State

With Grayson McCall threw forward 10,000 yards and 88 touchdowns with Coastal Carolina and a top 30 Opponent scoring defense NC State getting a lot of love there, too But I feel like I'm leaning maybe finally to Miami, figuring this thing out with Cam Org. All right, the Big 12. Utah is also the betting favor here. Number 12 in the preseason, they're tough to go against with Rising and Keithy both healthy. And if they're both healthy and they run through this, well, I don't mean run through it because I think the Big 12 is going to be really competitive, but they end up there at the end.

I don't think that's going to be really surprising because those guys have been studs when they can actually play. If you go back to previous seasons, they would have been studs when they can actually play. Uh, if you go back to previous seasons, they would have been in this playoff in this format, 2019, 21 and 22. K-State's getting a lot of love. Um, not the favorites, but close to the betting numbers, number 19 in the preseason. Avery Johnson, we've already mentioned and the tailbacks, but they've got new

receivers and they're replacing a bunch of guys on the O line. But their schedule, if you look at it, really lines up for them much better to maybe even be alive if they can't beat out Utah to still put together a really nice season because they have Arizona, Oklahoma State and Kansas at home and they don't play Utah in the regular season. Oklahoma State's in a bowl game every year because they're in a bowl game every year, going all the way back to 2005. The schedule is tough early, four or five games stretch here where it's against Arkansas, Utah at Kansas State and then versus West Virginia all by October 5th. My favorite big 12 team though is Arizona. Fafita to McMillan is also my favorite QB wide receiver combination in college football. McMillan is the best receiver I think in college. And I remember last year, September 30th, the game against Washington. I'm back in a hotel room. I'm watching it. I'm left with the what's wrong with Washington question,

which was totally wrong and misguided because nothing's wrong with Washington. It's just that Arizona is good. We started to see that as they continue to rip off a bunch of wins the rest of the regular season. I love their game against SC and in that game Caleb Williams has one of my favorite incompletions ever. Not like there were other Caleb Williams throws where I was like this guy's going to be really good but that one incompletion in particular I can't believe he even made that throw. Anyway moving on, the story of Macmillan and Fafita is incredible because I don't know how much you know about this. Locals will know, Arizona people will know,

but they've known each other since eighth grade. Macmillan was supposed to go to Oregon and then Cristobal left. So they both went to high school together in California and there's a few other players on this Arizona roster as well. Jed Fish leaves for Washington and then collectively this group

that all went to high school together decided to stay at Arizona. But there's another part of the story that I didn't know about. The new head coach, Brett Brennan was a grad assistant at Hawaii in 1998 with a guy named Troy Thomas, who was the high school coach of Afidah Millen and the others back in California. So we called, they all vouched for each other and they got to keep all their dudes.

Will they be in the playoffs? Before I get to the playoff thing, one thing that I wanna mention that I'm gonna miss, I'm gonna miss the Big Ten West. I'm gonna miss a fan base every year because they've won games and maybe won the division pretending that they're good. And it's just what happens sometimes with divisions, but this division was bad for a really long time. I know Iowa 10 years ago ended up being better than I thought.

I know Northwestern had a couple nice finishes with the final rankings. But if you go through the 10 years, the 10 straight years the West lost the Big 10 championship game to the other side. Again, that's 10 straight years without ever winning the conference championship game. They outscored 352 to 145. I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss a fan base. And I don't even want mean one in particular, but I'm going to miss fan bases from that side of the Big 10 because we don't have it anymore. Knowing their team really isn't that good. But then pretending and then arguing a break here, break there, like, are we national title contenders? Like, probably not. Look at all the defenses. That's one way of looking at it. That's one way of looking at it. All right. So prediction time.

Ohio State, big 10, Georgia, SEC,, Utah Big 12, Miami ACC. What's the first criticism whenever you say anything nice about Miami? Ah, well, they're just, they never figure it out. They have to at some point, don't they? Maybe Clemson's the team. I don't know what to do with them either. Maybe writing off Florida State is a mistake,

and I'm not necessarily writing them off, but I don't have them in the playoffs, so that feels like I'm writing them off, and maybe I wouldn't have done that two weeks ago. The at-large bids, Oregon, Texas, Penn State, a note on Penn State, and I know Penn State fans, you've heard it before, but if you guys are 11 and one,

not playing Michigan this year, and you get killed by Ohio State, now maybe Wisconsin's good, maybe USC's good, USC's ranked, maybe there'll be a couple of nice wins, but if Wisconsin isn't good and USC isn't any good, you don't play Michigan and Ohio state kills you and you're 11 and one and you're like, well, look out title. You get a chance. I will criticize it. All right. Notre Dame I have in, I have Ole Miss in. I like Jackson Dart as much as any quarterback not named Carson Beck in the SEC. I put Clemson in and I try to figure out a way to put Arizona in before I get to Boise State.

But if you go through the exercise, if Arizona's down in this neighborhood, they're 10 and two. So that would be, say they lost to Utah and Kansas State. All right. Well, that's not great because they lost to the two favorites. Now where are the other wins? If you look at them versus say, the not great because they lost to the two favorites. Now where are the other wins? If you look at them versus say a Bama 10 and two season,

say Bama and I'm just going in order. I'm not doing it because of matchups or anything. If you look at the ranked teams as of now, and this will change, but if Bama were to lose to Georgia and Tennessee, but then also has wins against Missouri, LSU and Oklahoma, there's no way. There's no way a big 12 team with that profile gets in over a Bama team that's

10 and two. So I put down Bama as the final at large. I'm not going to run through every single matchup and this team beats this team and these guys advance and they have the bye. I have Oregon winning the national championship. Why not? It is one of my favorite, maybe my favorite piece that comes out all year long, and that is Mike Sando's quarterback tears from the athletic. Mike joins us again. He joins us throughout the season because we love having him on, but this is the big unveiling.

It came out this week, and you can check it out and play along. What's up, Mike? Not too much. You know, we held it an extra month this year, and that was hard for me. I noticed. It was an internal decision to promote it month this year and that was hard for me. I noticed. It was an internal decision to promote it and whatever. And I was totally fine with that. But like this whole last month, I was like, I was done. You know, I was pretty much done with it. I was like, I'm ready to go.

I love this, this time of the year. Yeah, I was thinking about that. Cause I was like, how come it hasn't come out yet? How come it hasn't? And then I was like, oh, somebody else may jump them. Yeah, what is going on? Why is there a gap? So, all right, well, let's start with

the first three tier guys. So there's only three quarterbacks in tier one as of right now, and we'll just kind of do it this way. So, you know, the people that haven't read or may not get to it or whatever. So just run through the three guys in tier one. So Patrick Mahomes, unanimous, no surprise. If he wasn't unanimous, that would be a conversation.

And then Joe Burrow. 50 voters. Yeah, 50 voters. So 50 coaches and executives, right? I talked to all of them starting after the draft for a two month period. And then Joe Burrow and Josh Allen. And Joe Burrow was 43 of 50 votes in tier one. Josh Allen was 39. And then tier two was very close where Lamar Jackson almost made tier one. It was almost 50-50, but there's a couple more votes in tier two for him.

He made big strides, actually came up. Then what we saw was Herbert and Rogers, who had been in tier one in the past, slid down. They actually slid down below Lamar too. So smaller than usual tier two, probably a little, or tier one, a little bit bigger, probably tier two, and some interesting discussions really in tier two and three. All right. Let's start with the worst vote I read in this entire piece, and that is a tier three vote for Josh Allen. How? So when you do this poll and you talk to 50 different people, some people will kind of be right down the middle and be typical

of the other voters. Some others will have, there were some voters who only had one quarterback in tier one and a smaller number of twos and they kind of think a lot of guys are in the middle. So I think it was the same person had accounted for both three votes for Josh Allen Lamar saying these guys are way too dependent on their running the ball and in Josh Allen's case he's all over the map making bad decisions and in Lamar's case when he has to pass the ball he can't do it. That's an extreme outlier take that's worth mentioning because hey you noticed what are these votes on there for but obviously not representative of the panel and probably says more about the voter than as much as it does about the quarterback

in some cases, just because when you talk to 50, you're going to get your fringe over here and you're going to hit a fringe over here. Some people had, I think there's a voter that had seven people in tier one, so that's what happens and it all averages out. That's why we have 50. Yeah. I just felt like the Allen debate, at least for this year, after this past season is just, it's, it's over.

Um, I would take him, yeah, I would take him instead of anybody, uh, other than obviously my homes and even loving Burrow as much as I do with his injury history and the physicality of the two and knowing Burrow's weapons compared to, you know, Alan. And we'll see what happens this year, you know, because that's certainly going to be part of the concern. I just, I just don't know how anybody could watch the last few years and want anybody behind Mahomes more than Alan. But like he said, said, 50 people, you're going to find stuff. But there is a component more than one person of people who feel that Josh Allen still goes off the rails enough.

And so I was looking at some of that. I created a little bit of an index of like just disaster plays and I just went in and measured, okay, if this play cost your team like three points of EPA on a single play, that would be a huge swing. The Bills are near the top of those in the last few years. They do have some blow-up plays. I think that would be the only criticism of Josh Allen is sometimes just trying to do too much. But I'm with you. I think one of the quotes in there was like right now, my home is an

island of the two guys you're worried the most playing against. They can really, really truly carry it. Okay. Um, Stafford, I enjoyed seeing this because I went through all the staffer voting and he ends up tied for fifth with Herbert. But if you go through Stafford's history, he has accumulated 89 tier three votes throughout his entire career. And it's funny that it almost feels like

even more so than the Super Bowl win, his play this past year, it's almost like this farewell tour of appreciation for Matthew Stafford where he was probably somebody that was dragged down by the accumulation of what wasn't happening around him in Detroit. And now for everyone to be like you know what this guy was always kind of good because as we know with quarterbacks the winds are not always created equal and I just believe like the same way we get into Herbert here, I just will never deviate from this belief. There are some amazing quarterbacks who have awful things around them for far too long. And then people just want to blame the quarterback when they're just an awful situation. It exists, it happens, it will always happen. Yeah. It becomes a part of them. Like, it's just, you're right. and in Detroit all those years, they had some decent teams at times, and I think there's clearly a distinction to be made with Mahomes almost over any quarterback

in history from being able to win it all for teams that weren't good on defense. That's a rarity, and he was able to do that. But I'm with you. Stafford was there for so long that I think, you know, he ended up taking on more of the, uh, blame for an inability to go further into playoffs than he probably deserves because the organization was so bad and you see him go to a good organization and he wins the Superbowl within, you know, right away. Herbert is another one that seems to be kind of going along with. So it seems like Herbert drops down a tier.

So where's the conversation around him and then ultimately what is fair? Because I think there are some comparisons with Detroit Stafford. A little bit. So yeah, exactly. Herbert though is, was fifth last year and he's fifth now. And so fifth last year was good enough to be in tier one because he had a higher average, uh, so he didn't really necessarily lose a huge standing among the other quarterbacks. He got passed by Lamar. But I see that happening too. That's like, okay, wait a minute now. You've had a few

years where we think that if you're a true tier one or you would have made a little bit more of a difference, including in some moments, some games. I mean, shoot, they had a playoff game. They were up 27 to nothing,, shoot, they had a playoff game. They were 27 to nothing, couldn't make a play to win the game. That's part of this. And then there was an interesting discussion in there too. People were, one person drew a little bit of a comparison to a Trevor Lawrence, guys in a little bit of struggling organizations, guys who aren't really strong personalities.

And then you, you know, as they try to figure out, okay, is it Herbert? Is it the defense? Is it the organization? And you start to, in your mind, you go, okay, is there something missing with this, with this quarterback? And I think that has happened, like you said, with Stafford and it will happen a little bit with Herbert as you just go, wait a minute, shouldn't he win more anyway? Where are you with Rogers now?

Uh, I feel like, I feel like he's, I think a two is probably a safe compromise vote for him. Uh, just based on the age and injury and the stage of his career in a new place. But I think there's a really good chance he's still tier one. I think it's a really good chance. You seem extremely cautious right now. Your tone has changed. Well, it's been a while and I worry about the injury component.

If you go back to last year and look at the tiers last year, one of the most prescient things that was written was this is way more games on turf than Roger has just played before and just be wary of his ability to hold up. And no one is predicting it would take four snaps. But I have a little bit of a worry about at this stage, his willingness, eagerness, ability to stand in there and take the shots over the course of a full season. I think in any one game or I think he would be tier one, but I'm just, no, he's up there. It's going to fall off at some point and are we going to start to see that now?

Is it more in my mind than it's going to fall off at some point. And did we start, are we going to start to see that now? Is it more in my mind than it's been before? I'll tell you what, somebody saw it though. I couldn't believe this quote. You go back and watch those first four plays before he got hurt. He did not look good. He looks old. Four plays? But there's more to this. So when we were editing this thing, Part of my process. Go ahead. Tell us what happened. I believe this is a really good tip for editing.

When you do a big project, I read the story aloud. To another person. Because then you catch things like, wait a minute. And this was one we really talked about in the process was like, um, this come off as you're evaluating the four snaps. It's ridiculous, but there's more to the quote. You got the rest of the quote there, right?

I can get it right here. Um, he said first place, you don't look good. He looks old if they can't protect him and they can't run the football, it'll be just what you saw late stages in Green Bay. He became ineffective. I'm looking at what he is, not who he is. So that person is having an opinion of what Rogers looked like at the end in Green Bay, saying, you know what, it was only four plays,

but I wasn't seeing anything different. We may say that's ridiculous in four plays. And I'm skeptical. So I think that context is helpful that he's tying it to the past and like, Hey, it's been a while since I've seen him really play at an elite level. That's fine. But to say that it carried over and he could see it in four plays, I think is a lot for me to put faith in.

We talked about it. Yeah. I, yeah, it's good. I, it's fair point. Santa's like, yeah, when I went over, Silo did the tears again. And all he did was pick apart different quotes that he didn't like for people. So I love that too. I want to know what Vata did. I think CJ, as far as like there's some young quarterbacks,

I think it's more like the dual threat guys that can prop up their value in the first year, because they're still their instincts are telling him that to run a little bit more but you know the way I look at running as a quarterback is that you know it's great if your landscaping is awesome you've got a pool and the deck and the whole thing but like if the house isn't efficient and it's not you know gonna hang up yeah to the weather like it's cool to have all that stuff but like the foundation of who you are as a quarterback still is the passing game.

And Stroud showed us that in his first season, they add even more weapons. Any concern other than just the stubbornness of somebody to not want to put him in first tier or higher in the second tier because of just the one year. Is there anything that you even had heard that was from anyone in this group that was alarming about in this group. That was alarming about cj strout not at all he got twelve tier one votes and so usually the cut off there's there's there's one two three four five seven guys at least nineteen and he then he had twelve and then the next guy's four so to me that's a huge endorsement the first year. I don't really have or picked up on any concerns about him, but I do think that we probably gave him more of the credit than we would give some other guys based on what our perception was of Houston before he got there.

We thought this is a terrible team, poorly run, and they're going to throw this guy to the wolves. They played a tough schedule early, first-time head coach, first-time coordinator. And so then when it went well and Stroud looked good, we probably in our minds thought Stroud was overcoming all of these things when in reality, maybe the offensive line was good. Maybe we mis-evaluated that their receiving core was good. Maybe Bobby Sloak, who we didn't know anything about, is really good. Maybe D'Amico Ryan's is good.

So maybe all these things we thought he was overcoming were actually pretty well in his favor more than we thought. And so it's possible that this early on, because I think Stroud sets the record for any second year quarterback debuting in tears, because we don't have rookies. I don't think any one of them has come in higher. So did we give him a bump based off the expectation, our own possible mis-evaluation of Houston? And so he starts a little higher. What do you think of that? Uh, I like it and it may be the right answer.

And I thought, you know, it was, uh, it's like anybody who was watching this as it was happening, they're like, this team is good. They're going to be in the playoffs. Um, it seemed like one voter was very down on him though, in that Baltimore game, um, who would be that quote? Yeah, it's for putting him in tier one. Just for putting him in tier one. was very down on him though in that Baltimore game. Um, who's that quote? Pretty good in tier one, just for putting them in tier one. It was not like saying this is a, it was just saying, Hey, it, the wheels came off a little bit there and so before I put them in tier one, I just like to see

him in that type of situation again. Uh, and that's all. And I don't think that's an insult to him at all. It's he's, he's played one season and he got 12 tier ones and he has the highest second season debut of any quarterback in 11 years of doing this. That's a lot of endorsement. Okay. So we run through them.

Mahomes one, Burrow two, Allen three. There's your tier one. Tier two is Lamar, Stafford, Herbert, Rogers, Stroud. And then the rest of tier two is Dak, golf, Jalen Hurts, Brock Purdy, Kirk Crescent, Jordan Love. I don't even know what to ask about Dak anymore. Yeah. So I don't have a question. Well, to me, if we would have gone back eight years ago

and you said, what's the definition of each tier? And I would say, well, tier one would be Brady and Breeze and Payton. Rogers. I would say tier two would be, you know, Brady and Breeze and, and Payton. Rodgers. I would say tier two would be think of Matt Ryan or Stafford or these, these guys that in any one year, if the plants align around them, they might be the MVP, but really there's a hole or two that shows up come playoff time.

And for the most part, they're just a really good quarterback. That's now that he's just a consistently really good quarterback who probably there is a hole there or he would have pushed through further because he's had the last few years, they've had good defenses and that sort of a thing. So wouldn't you say that? He's just a, he is, he's right in the middle of tier two. And to me he's kind of the poster guy for tier two right now. Would you agree? Yeah, I, I think that makes a lot of sense. Like he's kind of the poster guy for tier two right now. Would you agree? Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.

Like he's good. You know, people that really want to beat up on him and be like, oh, you know, this isn't, he's a huge disappointment. Look, I know what the playoff stuff there is as well. I mean, he was the second MVP last year as well on top of everything else. So I just don't know if,

I don't know if the detractors are on, it has not been described or explained to me clear enough the things that he's incapable of doing that hold them back. Because offensively they've consistently put up too many big numbers while he's been there for me to think that he's actually holding them back. But then there are other times where I think we've talked ourselves into like what he could be. And it's like, I guess he's not going to be that either. So he's like perfectly placed in a, in a 15 year land of confusion. That's kind of how I feel about that. Cause I've watched so much of it.

I go, I think he's pretty good. And then when it's, and then when you get like all in on them, then it doesn't happen and I don't, I don't know if that's just the randomness of sports or something inherently wrong with him. I haven't heard it explained. And more organizationally, there's some issues with them, you know, too. So football is the ultimate team sport and-

But it's not like they're cheap with the weapons with him though. You know, they- No, he's had good offensive lines and those things over the years. Yeah, no, he's had good weaponry and he's been good. I thought one of the interesting quotes was, that can roll out of bed and throw for 450 yards.

And I was like, okay, I like, I was not sure of that, but I went and looked at the history of 450 yard games. And he's like, he's like right near the top. It was the guy was right. But then the rest of the sentence said like, but if you want to go into tier one, you don't you have to win a few of these playoff games and really be the reason, put the team on your back when the chips are down and do it when it really matters.

And, you know, maybe not in any, maybe in any one year, that's an unfair thing to say, but over a 10 year period, is it fair to expect that? Yeah, I think it's fair to expect that. I think golf is one of the most amazing redemption stories at the position that we've seen in modern history. And that's because I've gone through all the first round quarterbacks, you know, I do it too often and talk about how many of them don't work out. But then how many of them have gone on to win a playoff game? How many people flame out with the team that drafted them as a first rounder, then go on and win a playoff somewhere else,

playoff game somewhere else. It actually happened twice this year with Goff and Baker and it hadn't happened in forever. One of the things that I thought was really interesting about Goff is you can make the argument of, well, they knew they were upgrading to Stafford, so it's not the same as a Baker moving on from Cleveland. But if you pay golf that kind of money and you just went to the Super Bowl and you actually want to move on from that quarterback, that told me at that time, hey, any doubts you have about him are totally warranted. And now I feel like on top of everything else Detroit has going on, this is a very rare thing to pull off where you look at him is in that top

third of the league at that position. And I really don't know what the debate is anymore. Like he has now become a guy in a way that I never thought he would be. He, he had been a Superbowl quarterback though, with the Rams. It wasn't like he had a failed career there. It was more, uh, for whatever reason, I think Sean McVeigh would probably even, you know, admit probably admit that he was a little hard on him at the time. I think teams are a little bit more now, more willing and have

more money available to them to move on from guys when they sign a big contract. That could be one of the reasons why a golf would get a second chance. Teams are more willing to take the big cap hit or all these things. You see some analysts who come out of a different era have been wrong predicting, though the team would never do this, the cap hit would be too big. Well, you want to bet. We've seen this happen multiple times now with these guys where they take the big cap hits. I think that's a little bit of a difference in the game.

Then you also have now more coaches that are willing and able to tailor their offense around their guy. They're not looking for a specific skill set until they find it. They're like, hey, we got golf. We can make this look good around golf. We can do this. We can make it look good around Baker. Hey, you know what?

We can make it look good for Gina Smith. Some of these guys get chances in systems that are set up better. Then Detroit, just like the Rams did, has done a great job of building around them. He succeeded in two places where they had really good offensive lines, a good run game, apparently a very good coordinator play caller and some weapons. That's kind of how it works. He had the exact opposite extreme when he started out with the Rams and he looked horrible.

Jalen Hurts comes in at 11. If you went back to the start of last year, it was, I would say consensus that he was the best quarterback in the NFC, uh, and now he's fourth. According to this, what was the conversation around Hertz? Some of it's just around Philly too, that, that I feel like, you know, they had such a great thing going when Shane Steichen was there designing the offense. And that's where some of the optimism around Anthony Richardson comes to is at least you've got this coach

that you know can set it up well. And then they've changed in Philly. And now they've gone to, I think, a pretty good coordinator in Killen-Moore, but a guy who's more known for wanting to pass the ball. And I think people are wondering, is that gonna be be, how's that going to look with Jalen Hertz who when he kind of had to pass some, not that he's not a good passer because he is, but when he had to pass it looked rough last year.

What's that all going to look like now in a pressure cooker situation where they've hired some high profile coaches to the staff, There's a feeling that it's a big important year for the head coach. We're not sure how well he's going to handle that. And then you lose Kelsey, right? Some of those sorts of things. So I don't know. It doesn't feel like an off season where everybody that was is, is, is sure and wanting to bet on that's going to be good for hurts. They're kind of like, God, I hope it doesn't fall off here. So if you go hurts 11, Purdy 12, cousins, 13, Jordan love 14.

Yep. How many guys would you want? Well, let me put it this way. Would you rather have Jordan love over cousins? Yes. Is the age thing. Would you rather have them over purdy? You probably would if you were just starting a team from nothing.

Now, if it would Kyle Shanahan, maybe I think you probably would. Hurts. It's funny. You know, in your mind, what you do is you, when there's an unknown, you project this unlimited upside on a guy like love, right? Whereas you feel like with hurts, you've seen more of what the upside is. So are you like, Ooh, yeah, love. Yeah.

He could be way better than that. Yeah. Cause I'm just trying to find like the riser here in this, right? Look, the cousins one isn't fair. Injuries age is fine. Purdy. I bet you more people would rather have love moving forward.

I'd say the same thing for her. It's maybe based on the expectation thing. I mean, you could get into a golf age thing, but it's not that dramatic. You might get to Stroud before you, before more people would say Stroud, or what do you think? I think more people would push.

I think Stroud's the cutoff. I think Stroud's where you probably are going, wait a minute. I mean, I'm not going to be shocked if we're doing this in a year and love is ahead of Stroud. Yeah. So love basically just off of one season, you know, half a season here too. Yeah. Which is, which is pretty good. So yeah, these are kind of a little bit of a snapshot in time of guys moving, you know, and I think you're right. If we checked back in November, maybe love would continue to be moving up,

but it would be premature at this stage, you know, before the season to put them there. Does that make sense? He's got to prove it a little more. Yeah. It makes, makes all the sense. Okay. All right. So let's got to prove it a little more. Yeah, it makes, it makes all the sense. Okay. All right.

So let's go to tier three at 15. It's Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Kyler Murray, Deshaun Watson, Baker Mayfield, Derrick Carr, Gino Smith, and Russell Wilson. Tua is probably the best statistical, highest compensated quarterback that it feels like all of his momentum has disappeared. Like we spent a lot of time discussing who he was and where he was and I think this is accurate. I think this is right where, there's just too many guys now that I trust have gone,

if it's not this or it's not this, these timed things with everything coordinated, throwing to elite speed on the outside, once it becomes up to him, you have a really good chance of stopping speed on the outside. Once it becomes up to him, you have a really good chance of stopping them on that play. And I think that's a very fair summary of- Not only that, it looks bad when it comes about him. I feel like for the two guys, the

next guy is Trevor Lawrence and Kyle Murray. When it all breaks down, they might pull a rabid out of the hat more often. Those guys have the ability to do that. Chua, you're right, I think is interesting. But the top four guys, what stands out to me in this tier is they're all making a ton of money to Trevor Lawrence, Kyler, and Watson. That's a lot of money for, if I'm the owner of the team, I'm saying, hey, wait a minute, are we paying a win because of money to these win with quarterbacks? What do we got here? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. No, Trevor Lawrence is great. He's going to be great. Right. Can you just see some of those discussions and out of that group, you'd feel like to Sean Watts. And I'd almost be

surprised if he's really good again. It just feels like there's been too much of not good to, I feel like we know what he is for better and worse and he'll be fine as long as they have it set up nicely for him. I think Lawrence and Murray are the interesting ones who, like, I wouldn't be surprised if they moved up, uh, you know, uh, a tear, don't you think? Lawrence. Yeah. I think, I think Kyler's certainly had moments that I feel better about.

Like, okay, at least I've seen some stretches where going back a couple years ago, I felt like he was carrying Arizona. You know, there was a moment in time where I, like a lot of the guys, don't know, hey, I actually kind of like him to, I'm just off of him now because I think his tendency to get hurt,

like I think his ability to get hurt is far more fragile than than other quarterbacks. I've just seen certain plays where I think he's coming up off the ground. I'm like, is he dinged up after that? And it would make sense because he is so slight and he's not thick in the way Russell Wilson was thick, but yet a smaller quarterback. Yeah. He's, he's just the first thing you notice watching the game is,

God, he looks small. You know, it's, and you didn't feel that way with some of the other guys, but I think he, he is suffering from the injury thing. And then remember his contract clause came out that killed him. You know, there were, he just basically needs to get on the field again. And I think he's better than what he's probably been perceived at the last year, but he's got to play to change it.

And I think he has a decent setup there in Arizona that if he can stay healthy, I could see him coming up at least a little bit of a notch. It feels like the momentum for Trevor Lawrence though is definitely heading in the wrong direction. What was kind of the general consensus you got? Because it was 18 tier two votes and 32 tier three votes. Yeah.

So we talked about, you know, Herbert and Stafford, the organizational thing. Right. And so he comes in with, with a bad organization historically, and then has urban Meyer and then has a, a nice bounce back here and they were actually eight and three last year. Gets a series of injuries and isn't able to overcome, doesn't look good. And now it felt like to me, people kind of, people kind of withdrew on him a little bit, maybe more than I expected.

And when this first came out, I thought, is that a little low? Is that a little harsh for him? But then when I tried to find who I would put them above, you know, in the bottom of tier two, that didn't feel right either. So he's probably right about where he belongs, but I think he can be better than that. Is there anyone else in tier three that you, you look at that surprises you? Like, I mean, it kind of feels like it makes sense to be honest with you when this when I got to this part of it yeah go ahead it really makes sense to me I feel like

Gino Smith has played a little better than that like I I feel better about Gino Smith than Derek Carr right now even though they're both tied at 3.0 but when I'm like what would I move Gino up above those other guys at the top of the tier? I mean, not necessarily, but you can really see the drop after that. After Gino, you get Russell Wilson just barely holding on in tier three, other than the guys like Anthony Richardson and Will Levis who haven't played very much. It's a lot of guys who you feel like the ship has kind of sailed on them, right? Like these guys aren't even necessarily, if these guys are in your competition maybe next year to be starters, but hopefully aren't your guy long term a lot of you are the foremost expert if there was a.

Episode of pawn stars and it was a piece of russell wilson memorabilia we need to call up our friend mike sandoe and then you would come in and go, unfortunately this is from his Denver stop. And even though it is real, it is not nearly as valuable as some of his earlier Seahawks stuff. So I'm sorry, you know, and then the guy'd be like, all right, I'll give you 20 bucks. Anyway, long setup for that, not a great payoff.

Look, you were on this, you were on this early and it was even worse, as bad as it was. I cannot believe it was as bad as it was in Denver. And I mean, as bad as it was towards the end of Seattle, I can't believe it was that bad. And then you had one offensive coordinator just say, quote, to me, he'd be a five if he wasn't with Tomlin. So is there hope for Steelers fans? Yeah. What is the hope of the ceiling though? Picture this, you're a team that it seems like can go win nine or ten games just almost anyway with Mike Tomlin there.

So I think they can do that. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if they won ten games. But what's your real upside in the playoffs? Are you going to be hoping to win a wild card game? Right? Are you gonna be open to win a wild card game. Right so to me there's just a real ceiling on where they can go unless russia wilson just recapture magic but i think a lot of magic was. You know some athleticism that is left. He had the ability to break the rules of turning your back to the past russian running this way in that way making incredible plays you turn plays. He could turn a lost cause play into a home run, and now those lost cause plays at best turn into an incompletion or a short dump off, it feels like to me.

So, yeah, I think they can have a decent season. I just don't know. I don't think they can go very far. And by the way, Seattle, since their defense started falling off, never did anything in the playoffs either. Even when Russell Wilson was getting a lot of tier one votes, they weren't going to championship games for years. I can't believe you got three tier two votes. Yeah. Well, like we said, we'd already covered 50 people, just a test in human tendencies. All right. Tier four, Daniel Jones, Justin Fields, Gardner Minshew, Anthony Richardson,

Will Levis, Bryce Young, Sam Darnold, Jacoby Brissett. I'll ask two questions around this. Who are you most concerned about and who do you think has the best chance to just break out of this? Well, I think you set aside the Gardner Minshew type of a journeyman type of a player and set aside even Darnold, I think the hopes were that high for him. You'd be very concerned about Daniel Jones, just not only from his injuries, he's had neck and he's had knee, just where he's at, where they're at. I mean,

you haven't seen enough good from him to think there's more. Now, I think there's a different level of expectations for a Will Levis, who's a second round pick. I mean, you know, the most hope is probably for Anthony Richardson with a high ceiling, but can he stay healthy and be an accurate enough passer over time? Playing that style, I I think is a legitimate question based on his start. So, I don't know that there's a great answer to that. If I were to go through these guys,

I would say Bryce Young probably could make a big jump and have a decent season, but what is his ceiling, right? I know what was shared about Bryce Young from the excerpts that we have available to us, but was there more, oh my God, he's not gonna be good, or more they did a massive injustice to throwing him in like that?

What was the more common thing you heard? I keep this file where I've got comments that I used or didn't use, and I've got it to him right now So, okay. The first one is couldn't have been in a worse scenario Another one disaster situation But the also the arm strength is the one thing I really worry about him. Can he make the big-time throws? Major concerns size strength, strength, arm, just all of it, ability to stay healthy, thrown into the wolves. Ultimate four, meaning you can't

judge him because of how bad it was around him. There's another quote that I think I used about, hey, intelligence is good, arms good, but size is going to be a deal breaker for him ultimately. So no one who played him came away feeling like, Hey, it was a really bad situation, but wow, look out when they get it right. I didn't really get any of that. Okay. All right. Let's finish with this then.

Um, I'm just going to throw you six names. All right. Higher or lower for next year. Okay. All right. And I'll have to pull up where they're at now too, just to make sure I'm playing along. All right. So Hertz dips down a bit, stays in the same tier. Uh, he's at 11 higher or lower next year? Uh, a little bit lower. Okay. Two at 15. About the same. Okay. Trevor Lawrence 16 higher. Yeah, that's a weird season. I don't like the way they talked about him in your piece. It's like, what if he's actually like a two, two and half like it's not what's gonna happen with him Maybe I don't know. All right Kyler 17. I

Think he'll be higher. Yeah healthy is higher But if he gets hurt again, then I mean we're gonna be that's actually what you mentioned too That kind of worried me to the one reason I almost said lower is because like we're are we just taking for granted He plays whole seasons now. That's like a thing, you know, he did it last year, but is that forever? That's the one reason I almost said lower is because like, are we just taking for granted he's plays whole seasons now? That's like a thing that, you know, he did it last year, but is that forever? That's the one concern. Uh, Deshaun Watson. Uh, I think lower. 20, what was he 18?

I think lower. I think he, I think he's trending down. What about Justin Fields? 24. Uh, he may not even be in the poll next year. And if he's not a starter, if he doesn't get a chance to start, so he's at 24. Uh, I could see him coming up a little bit higher. I could see him getting enough reps that he maybe goes to the very top

of four or a bottom three. It's an awesome piece of work, man. And like I said at the beginning, it's one of my favorite things to check out. So thanks for all the work that you do on it. And if you want to read along and get even more in-depth and see the trends and where all this stuff is going and the historical votes on it, you can check it out at the Athletic under Mike Sando's tab. All right, man. Enjoy week one.

And thanks as always. We'll catch up again soon. All right. Thanks. Loved it. Appreciate it. You want details? Buy. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine.

And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address as always, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Life advice today is brought to you by State Farm. Whatever your needs, State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you bundle home and auto insurance with a personal price plan.

Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Hey guys, what's new? What's up? Jeez, I don't even know where to put my feet. I feel like I haven't been doing this in a long time. How long has it actually been, Saruti? It's been over two weeks, because we taped a bunch of life advice stuff.

We had a few things on tape. So yeah, since we officially did a life advice, since we've really all been, the gang's been back together, it's been probably two plus weeks. Strange. I don't like it. I do. Same. Yeah. I just, I don't though. I also understand what you're saying. You know what I mean? Cause when I was getting started this morning, early, early wake up,

just said a lot to get to five 30 at the notepad at the laptop. And it was funny cause it was, it's like not doing cardio for a really long time or something. And then you go, this is the way I do this before every show. Like there's a lot to do. I got to check, I got to check and double check stuff. Probably get something wrong, not in mid season form, but yeah, ready to go. I guess it's always funny too. When we like, we'll record, you know, a couple of life advices during one day to, you know, put them on the tape shows and because they get stretched out over a couple

of weeks, like I forget that we even talked about stuff. Somebody will tweet me and be like, you're an idiot for saying this on life advice. I'm like, man, that felt like last year. When the heck did we tape that? Get a life dude. I don't even know what you're talking about. I know.

I know. I'm trying to minimize my screen here too. I'm having a really hard time with that. I don't want to look at myself this much. My screen's all different. Technology is just, yeah, he has no idea. It's a little clunky, huh? Yeah, I'll just try to keep looking at Kyle's St. John's hat. You did not steal that, right?

No, didn't steal that, it was a gift. Good, okay, that's good. It's good to know. So yeah, did Spain and then post-Spain. And by the way, you get some good reaction because I wasn't sure how the bullfighting part was going to go over. But I think people understood. And you know, there's a couple people that it's not for everybody. I'll

say that. Silence, okay. Food guys, food guys didn't like it. But I think you knew that when you were food guys get yeah, food guys get really mad about it. They actually have about food guys like, Hey, I didn't go. I didn't like it. But I think you knew that when you were coming. Food guys get, yeah, food guys get really mad about it. They actually have- I'm getting towards about food guys. Like, hey, I didn't go. I didn't, it wasn't me. I wasn't there. Yeah.

Kyle didn't go. If everything worked out perfectly, that's not really a great pod. Like I screwed it up. When somebody sent me the link that it was ranked the number one food destination in the world, I did have a moment, I was like, you did a better job.

You could have done a better job with this. You know, just trying to think of like, what is it? It's not like going to Springfield mass and not going to the basketball hall of fame because you know, you're in Springfield. So I don't think the Springfield, I don't think the hall of Fame is on the level of the food in that region of the world. What a cop.

Yeah. I know. I'm trying to think of like- What's it just a guess? But yeah. What could you go to, although if you're in Springfield, it's high on the list of things you would probably want to do in Springfield, Mass. Accurate. Just, yeah. I'm just trying to think like like what, is it like going through the Grand Canyon and be like, I'm just gonna go this way, not see it? Yes, from a distance.

Yeah, Google Maps says this is actually quicker. Sorry kids. Maybe next time, I do do a lot of like, when I'm at these places, I'm like, ah, next time I'll just hit that up. It's like, next time? Are you sure? Are you sure there's gonna be a next time? Yeah, like I did it with Iceland a few times.

Like, oh, well next time I'll kind of hang down here. I was like, next time? You're not going to Iceland again. I highly doubt I go to Iceland again. San Sebastian is a better chance. Antropay will absolutely happen again. But yeah, anyway, so once I got back from there, maybe I'll share a couple of food emails because man, do people get pissed.

I thought your salad rant was on point though. I feel like you are right about European salads. Yeah, stop fucking them up Europe. Nothing to add, no notes. But I went up to British Columbia because the next trip I was like, okay, I have this other window. I don't want to fly all the way across the globe again or whatever, however far it was, I want to do something easier. Flew into Vancouver, beautiful city. Didn't want to hang out in the city.

Immediately got on the road, drove up to Squamish where, um, you remember the Netflix doc on the climber who like, nobody knows who he is and he like flies up the wall, saw the wall, saw the whole deal. Squamish, cool little town. I don't know that I'd summer there unless you really loved rock climbing. And then I started getting like really adventurous. There was even a chance because Chris Long was like, go to Yellowknife. I'm like, Yellowknife's way up there. And then I actually looked at flights to Yellowknife and then I was gonna take a picture of myself in front of the town sign, Yellowknife,

just giving him the finger, being like, I actually did it. Was like, this is a lot of work though, just for the picture. It's a lot for a bit. Yeah, for the fit. Like I was gonna have to go back to Vancouver and they only like flew out once a day and then the return flight was tough.

And I was looking at accommodations, like what if you get to Yellowknife and like, you can't fish and you just walk around for like two days? And we're like, is that worth it? That doesn't, yeah. Got you Chris. You didn't think I'd do it. But I started like looking at some of these towns going like,

what's going on with this town? Boston bar is an actual town name. What's up with Pemberton? So I drove to Whistler, which of course everybody's heard about Whistler and you know, my affinity for ski towns even is not really a skier. And I got to Whistler and that was, uh, that was awesome. Fly fished really good day. Nothing worth taking a picture of.

It was fine. Um, right next to the golf course did an 11 mile hike to this lake, Garibaldi, which is south of Whistler. And then the real move was like, okay, everybody here is mountain biking. And apparently the ski slope is just transformed into this ultimate like mountain bike trail maze. Right. And I'm asking around and I go, what's, what's the

deal with this? They were like, it's like the best facility to North America. I go, well, dude, if it's right here, walking distance, let's not treat it like San Sebastian's restaurants. Let's actually do it. Yeah.

Right. Next time. So I grabbed the mountain bike gear up body armor helmet, get my day pass on a nice Santa Cruz, nice piece of equipment. And I'm on the lift. And of course, like the first time you're loading the bike in, in front of you, I'm like, I'm going to fuck this up. Stand out immediately. Good thing I bought the $20 insurance.

No. And, uh, I'm sitting next to these two guys and of course it's just cause I'm getting up, stand out immediately. Good thing I bought the $20 insurance. Noob. And, uh, I'm sitting next to these two guys. And of course it's just cause I'm getting older, which I don't know why I'm doing this starting conversations with strangers, but I was like, so what's the story? I was like, what's the story with this place? Like how, how hard is it really going to be? And the guy's like, have you done it before? Like this decades too long to have taken off from downhill mountain biking. Do I pick it right back up?

And he's like, dude, start on the easy ones. He's like, just definitely. He goes, take the easy one first and then do it again so that you kind of understand like how it plays out. I was like, all right, no problem. Two turns into the easy one. I'm like, this is the easy one. And you don't know the lines and you're like, oh, this is another turn. And I'm kind of like laughing, make it down, do it again.

I was like, all right, fine. And then I stepped it up over the course of the day where I took a wrong turn on one where the very start of the trail was like an immediate drop off this huge rock, which felt awful when I landed. And then there was another one where I've noticed I'm like, what's going on up there? It was like, Oh, it's just a ravine into a river if I don't hit this turn right. And then there was another one that I just like, what's going on up there? I was like, oh, it's just a ravine into a river if I don't hit this turn right. And then there was another one that I just completely,

because the trails kind of intertwine with each other. And then I ended up taking a wrong turn on one where I was like, okay, this is not, this isn't fun. Anyway, made it through and also realized too, as I did this, there's a gap in my health insurance that doesn't kick back in until the beginning of September. So I was like, this is the worst. So after I made it down seven to eight runs without any major injury or crash, this, there's a gap in my health insurance. It doesn't kick back in until the beginning of September. So I was like, this is the worst.

So after I made it down seven to eight runs without any major injury or crashing, my adrenaline was through the roof. Not because I was awesome, but because I was safe. I can't believe they, maybe they are. And I just didn't see it. People must fuck themselves up daily on that deal because you just get up there. You're on your bike and you're like, I already know the mindset of the guys, like whatever dude, I got this.

Where do we start in the intermediates? And it's like, no, not, if you don't know what you're doing. I mean, even the first few turns in the easiest one, I was just going like, I have to like lean into this thing and get sideways to get around it, but it was fun. I'm really glad I did it.

Got out there, pushed the fear factor a bit and can't wait for that insurance to kick in. What's a summertime ski lodge like? Is it like even close to the magic that a wintertime ski lodge is, or is it just sort of like, we're just here to use the bathrooms? Hmm.

Magic is an interesting word, because I do feel like the winter makes it a majestic place. Totally. But the summer, it goes off. I mean, it was, I don't know what the hell is going on if there's some sort of Elon Musk pipeline that we don't know about that goes from Australia, New Zealand straight to Whistler because every dude I'm like, what is up? He's like, yeah, there's a lot of us. I don't know if I got that right.

You have to make sure you got the New Zealand's right because they might still have beef with you. Because I was like, did you guys just Zealand's right. They might still have beef to do. Cause I was like, did you guys just run shit in town? Do you like go to the dive bars and it's just you? It's like pretty much, yeah. So I don't know, I didn't do as well. I should've tried a second time. Food was great, hit everything, didn't really go out though.

And then made it down to Victoria, which the only mistake with Victoria is that I'd rented a car. I didn't want to take the ferry and take the car over. Lifelong ferry guy, you know, standby is just the nightmare word for me. So passenger ferry over, even though it's also the vehicle ferry, I don't know what the way it was. I didn't feel like dealing with it. And then stayed in Victoria for a couple of days. Victoria really beautiful.

But when I go back, I'll explore Victoria Island a little bit more because there I was hanging out. I shouldn't say I was hanging out. She was the bartender. So it's not like we're dating. Um, she's like, Oh, you got to check out this town and this place. And I was like, what's it? She's like, it's just super vibey.

And you know, if somebody describes something as super vibey, it means you have to go. Uh, but yeah, joined a gym there. There was someone who was literally right out of central casting telling us, you know, about her power lifting days. And I was like, okay, cool. Good to know. Um, oh, this is the story though, from Whistler. This is the story from Whistler that I want to share with you. So one of the nights I go over to, um, a steak house solo and the guys next to me, they've had a few, but they're not like annoying. They're just, they've had a few. The volumes up a little more than usual. Yeah. And it's kind of like,

you're going to eat that jokes. You're like, yeah, I'm probably going to eat it. But then I tried to like, I tried to alpha them with, are you going to eat that? Do you want some? Do you want some? Oh no, I couldn't. I want some? Oh, no, I couldn't. I couldn't. No, no, I don't care. Then they offered me some wine. I was like, no, I got them hitting the trails again tomorrow early.

It gets some lines out. You're just one-upping each other with offers. Right, right. So he was friendly enough. So there wasn't anything that like threw me off. And then the bartender of course was from New Zealand or Australia and the American guy that's at the bar with his friends is like, I got to tell you, your blacks here are like way scarier than back home. And I was like, what the fuck?

Right. I'm like, did he just say that? And so now I'm like utensils down kind of like looking forward. And then I'm like, this is, this is going to be weird. And then the bartender's like, Oh yeah, but I wouldn't trade our blacks for anything. And I was like, what the fuck is going on here? I'm like, I, what? I was like, now the bartender's in on this. And then the customer says one more thing. And I was like, Mike, is this a skit?

What? And then I realized they were talking about the downhill bike trails. Yeah. Black diamonds. Yeah. They were like, the blacks here are more challenging. He's like, Oh, you know, I was always wondering. more challenging.

He's like, oh, you know, I was always wondering. Like that that makes. Makes way more sense. Yeah, and somebody saying that. Yeah, it does kind of seem like that CBS show. Like what would you do? You're like, am I supposed to? That's like a that's like a modern family line like joke written into like a line

Oh, is there like the Phil Dumpy thing when he's talking about the offensive line, right? And they were talking about the blind side and it was like oh like it was that like, you know that that tight end And she goes offensive line and she's like, excuse me I forget what the exact joke is but there's literally a joke written into a modern family It was a good pull by you. I didn't see the first The first sentence, yeah, no, that might've been great. I didn't watch the show, so good one. You don't watch Modern Family? Wow.

I didn't. I guess that shows up. Yeah, there was just this little window of 15 seconds with the back and forth, so I'm like, this can't actually be happening right now. All right, let's get to a couple submissions. Do we read one food one? Or we just move on. Yeah.

People taste no pun intended. Uh, let me say I'm a fan of your podcast, except for this one. If you don't like the culture and the pink so pinchos, see, I'm already out of season, I can't pronounce it anymore. If you don't like the pinchos bar, fine. You're there to try different types of food, but since you're American and you like huge food portions, fine. Cool. The point is, you're there to try different types of food. But since you're American and you like huge food portions, fine, cool.

The places that you went, they didn't like you and they treated you poorly. It's because you're American. So next time go travel through Arkansas and Alabama instead of going to Europe. So that way you don't have to complain about the food and the portion sizes. Go to a McDonald's then and order five Big Macs

to keep you happy. Thanks, but I still like your podcasts. Well, so not, not all negative. So not, you know, mixed a mixed bag. I had a guy say that you would like you could completely misunderstood Pinchos like it was like, it's supposed to be after you have a big meal, but you just couldn't find any place to have a big meal. But I don't know. That was like the, the one note I got, but again, wasn't there. People get really mad about it. Really mad.

Okay. All right. Friend ruined fantasy football trip. Player comp balding pudgy Luke Ridenour. That's pretty honest. My group of high school friends have a fantasy football league dating 15 plus years. We finally all got together for a live draft for the first time in years. We rented a great house in the mountains for the weekend. One guy hired a private chef to prepare food one night and then do a comedy routine. Who's that guy?

That sucks. I listen to comedy podcasts and they're always like, yeah, I did this gig for a couple of dudes. They never go well. I was like comedy podcasts and they're always like, yeah, I did this gig for a couple of dudes. No, they never go well. I was like, I hated it. They hated it, but dude still booked like a small rooms for, for even like top comedians.

They can't even handle it. Joe, funny. You have to be in like a house of seven guys. Well, I guess it's a fantasy. It's 10 to 12. Right. Still bad idea. The chef made the food, told one joke and

left without cleaning, which he said he would do. Turns out a comment one Fred made to another in the early hours of the night, you know how guys could be making fun of one another as how we show love offended the chef. So the joke wasn't even towards the chef. It was from one of the attendees to the other. The chef told us in an email the Monday morning

after the weekend that after that comment, he could not get out of the house fast enough and he was sorry he didn't clean or do the show. Many in the friend group are now clamoring for the commenter to pay for the whole thing rather than everyone just paying the original share. The commenter refuses to do so. What should we do? Also, this was not PFT commenter.

Okay. Good to know he's in the clear. I don't know. Okay, good to know he's in the clear. I don't know, you guys got a chef, comedian, slash, to perform as one of the Knights of Entertainment? The chef thing I can get down with, stand-up comedy following. Who's that good at cooking and comedy

to even pull that off, first of all? All right. I don't wanna get into what was said or the tears of what could have been said. Is there something that he could have said that is so off base that he deserves to get hit with the bill for everything? Sure. But I'm not going to get into that.

I'm going to say that, you know, book something else in the future and all of you have to split it. Don't be like, you guys all know who each other are. You've been friends for, like you said, 15 plus years. Somebody fucked up. Making fun of somebody else, by the way, not even saying it to the chef. I don't know.

I mean, obviously there are other dynamics that could be at play here that could make it far more, again, I'm not super interested in guessing at what that is, but I think all of you deserve to pay equally for this because you hired a chef slash comedian. Yeah. That's one of the nights. I think different friends groups have like a line that shouldn't be crossed and it definitely just varies with the group that you're in.

Uh, like your work friend group, the lines probably way closer to where you are right now than, uh, you know, and your regular friend group, but everyone in that group, no one was like, Oh, he clearly stepped over the line. They found out the next day. closer to where you are right now than, you know, in your regular friend group, but everyone in that group, no one was like, oh, he clearly stepped over the line. They found out the next day. So the title of this was like friend is ruining fantasy football trip. I think the rest of you guys are ruining the trip. I think, you know, hate to bring the charges to the

game moment up. But that's exactly what it is. Like you guys didn't understand. You had someone, you know, within the group, it would have been fine, but you decided to bring someone else into the situation. And it kind of, you know, within the group, it would have been fine, but you decided to bring someone else into the situation and it kind of, you know, it's just one of those stories. But yeah, I wouldn't, I feel bad for this guy because you guys are all on the same page about not wanting to pay and the one guy who, you know, was just being normal as what you always do. It's like everything changed. You looked up he's like, what the hell? I'm on the other team now. So I would stop, stop this right now.

This is just charge to the game. I feel bad for this guy. I mostly agree with that, but it does seem like most of the guys think there was a line cross though, right? So like it's not just like, hey, it's normal dude shenanigan stuff. Like something weird happened, I would guess. And that was a line stepping situation. So I... If you want to put it into that bucket though, like a

million different things are running through my head right now. Is it everybody else is probably listening to this right now that, okay, but what if it were this and then this, and then this was, and then you just go, okay, actually like, yeah, of course there's outcomes here where you're like, well fuck that guy. But yeah, I had the origin of it all. The way he framed it was like, this is how we razz each other. So like in our normal fashion, this guy said something to another.

That's kind of what that's the way he framed it. He wasn't like, and then it got really quiet. We moved on. He was just like, it just happened in the normal flow of things. This is how it always goes. Yeah. I think if this isn't like an a friendship ender situation, then I agree with Kyle. I get to charge like if it's a charged up to the game situation. Like you kind of knew, cause it's true.

Like when you go on bachelor parties, when you go and hang out with your friends, like you know kind of like, Hey, if I invite this other person that's not in the group, like are they going to understand the jokes? Is it going to be kind of weird? And you don't want to do that. So you, you do know what you're getting into

with your group of friends. And if after this, you like, he's not excommunicated based on what he did, then yeah yeah I think I'm just kind of playing devil's advocate like clearly something did happen but I wonder you know I don't know if you're willing to still be friends with this guy like you guys just kind of have to own it. And fantasy football groups can be the meanest version of a group there is by the way that's kind of what it's they're they bond around around disrespect. So, I kinda just based on his in. I'm taking another tight end in Arby's for 24 hours. Yeah, take another.

Yeah. I also think inviting a stranger to the guy's weekend, or it could be the girl's weekend, when it's the intimate people that have known each other a really long time, and then you go, hey, let's have a stranger stop by, make us dinner, and then do a comedy routine. You're, I don't know, you guys drink it all day too,

before the guy even gets there, and then you're zinging him and everything, and then he's coming out being like we're gonna start with some tuna tartar. Interesting that a comedian got offended though. You don't see that too often. That's a funny word. But he's a chef comedian though I don't know you know who knows like you. Sounds like he takes one of those occupations more seriously than the other. What does that say about you? I don't know, maybe he's awesome. Maybe Yelp reviews, it's off the charts. All right.

Creepy or not, did we already read that? Is that a rulings? I'd give a rulings, what do we got? Yeah. I got to preview that one. Yeah. Some shady stuff in there. Copy and paste, throw it in Google,

see if it's a rule. Not a good sign. Not a good sign for the not creepy. Do you want to just go blind? Yeah. Do you want to go blind? What's the worst that could happen? Read a fake one.

Long time listener, don't have gym stats. I don't go to the gym. Third degree black belt in Taekwondo and actively trained basketball compass, Steve Nash. I had long hair in high school as a point guard shooter. And everyone on my team said I played like Nash. A lot of probing the lane, kicking out to teammates. Didn't like shooting a lot,

but high percentage, but mostly I'm not super tall and had long hair. Okay. Fair. By the way, Victoria BC, home of Juan Steve Nash. What's up? That's an interesting fact. Yeah, I went to this breakfast place.

They had like jerseys of everybody around there. There was a little Nash area, also some killer French toast. And she's like, make sure you pour the sauce all over it. I was like, what kind of sauce are we talking about? It was basically cake frosting. I'll tell you what though, it tasted good, but she's like, you're not gonna use the rest of it? I'm like, it's fucking in 9 a.m. cake frosting

all over this shit, I got stuff to do today. Can I go on a side too? You ever see like, you know how everyone's like kind of in on these like ninja creamy things and now everyone's just like making ice cream for breakfast and it's like normalized that we're just eating ice cream for breakfast oh is that you haven't seen this like everybody's like they use like those weird I don't know I know my algorithm is strange is how a lot of parts yeah

algorithm I'm not really seeing the ironically if I did go through a big phase in my feed of of Like mountain bikers crashing into stuff So like I'm so totally understand like that guy just going full force into a tree and you're like is that guy alive? Like that dude's getting hurt kids getting hurt. Yeah, I've got my thing. Yeah, I don't like to watch those I don't like watch the dudes getting hurt. I don't either but like they just keep coming I don't know. I don't know how to stop it in the algorithm. It's gonna ride it out Yeah, but uh, but no there's like it in the algorithm. It's got to ride it out. Yeah. But, but no, there's like, there's like,

there's like this thing now where like everybody just eats desserts for breakfast. It's like, Oh, do you want to eat? Like you could eat cookie dough for breakfast, but it's like cottage cheese and whatever. I'm like, is this the, is this the slope we want to go down? Like, can we just eat normal breakfast? Like just make some eggs, man. It's got good protein. You know, maybe some raisin bran. What are we doing?

Like make an ice cream for breakfast and cookie dough. Anyway, I'm an old man. Oh, that's got good protein, you know, maybe some raisin brand. What are we doing? Like make an ice cream for breakfast and cookie dough. Anyway, I'm an old man. Um, no, that's fine. I love key lime pie so much. Like if it's really good, it's my favorite dessert. Not even close. Um, and I was in Houston for college game day and there was this hotel we were staying in that had this incredible, incredible breakfast buffet.

But when I'm doing game day and we're up that early, I'm probably eating at seven and maybe, you know, maybe it's eight, I don't know. Usually at the set no later than two hours before the start of the show. And I'm going through normal eggs, bacon, potatoes deal. And I see this incredible individual serving of key lime pies.

And I went, this isn't gonna be here later, is it? And I was like, I'm doing it. I don't care if I can do it. And it was so early and it was so good, but it just threw me off, Just threw me up. Like, how do you do this? How do you do this? Maybe if you just do it enough that you just- You threw you off mentally or you were just like, I don't feel right. I never understood how people like, I guess like overeating McDonald's in the morning, I could feel a little sluggish, but

Bill's always like, man, if I had this at four o'clock, God, I'd be down for the count. Like I just, I've never really, like I can't even tell if coffee's working. I just do it because I've like started doing it a lot. I don't know if I feel better after coffee, but I do it. Does go good, goes well with the smoke, but like I'm never like, wow, I'm ready to go because I've had my coffee. I don't know.

Like I just don't feel effects of the stuff that I put in my body most of the time. That's incredible. You should hold onto that forever. Cause I feel like, yeah, younger me, I would not feel feel effects of the stuff that I put in my body most of the time. That's incredible. You should hold onto that forever. Cause I feel like, yeah, younger me, I would not feel the effects of stuff. But now, yeah, if I had like a cookie in the morning, it's not, just throws my day off. A lot of it depends on, right, but it depends on what your pattern is.

Like when you don't eat really good food, you don't notice anything because you're always eating bad foods. All right. Is that a nice way I'm saying that? No, I'm not. Like here's a perfect example. Like when you think about lunch back at ESPN days. Walked right into that.

No, I would see guys getting like double cheeseburgers and a full plate of curly fries at noon. And it was a little different for me because I was about to do a radio show starting at one, but I would look at it and think, if I had that right now before the show started, I, the show's just going to suck. Like it would, it would throw me off.

I just would feel different. I don't know. Maybe the show wouldn't maybe, maybe be good. Cause I, I don't know. I just, uh, just still think about the last 60 seconds and I wish I'd never said anything, but we should, we should do a test of like where, you know, well, if you're a fucking slob,

everything's going to seem the same. God damn it. All right. All right. So Steve, yeah. Anyway, under the question mid thirties, five, nine, I've always been in longer term relationships, met my previous girlfriend either in school or via online dating. I went through a breakup a few months ago, been single since. I live in a neighborhood in LA that's pretty walkable. Usually take my dog for long walks around the neighborhood either in the morning or

late at night. Sometimes both. I have a husky, so it's a relatively unique dog. Rarely see them when I'm out, at least when I'm out walking. This will be relevant. Last weekend, I randomly woke up earlier than usual, but didn't want to go back to sleep, so it's a relatively unique dog. Rarely see them when I'm out, at least when I'm out walking. This will be relevant. Last weekend, I randomly woke up earlier than usual,

but didn't want to go back to sleep, so I decided to just do my morning walk around 7.30, instead of usually around 10. So I go on my walk at the stoplight, I meet a girl, she starts talking to me because she also has a husky. Oh my God. Anyhow, we're just standing there talking for 20 minutes. It feels like we're hitting it off.

Turns out she actually used to live a few apartments down from me, but just moved to the valley, but still comes down to the neighborhood because she works out at a Berry's. There's one, that's a lot of information, man. There's one right in the center, a few blocks from where I live.

I walk by it all the time. Funny thing is I used to live right by where she currently lives in the valley. So that was funny. God, you guys had so many connections. So many missed connections. She mentions how she thinks she's seen me walking around a few times. So anyway, after about 20 minutes, she's like, oh shit, I'm late for my class. We exchanged names and that's it. My walk continues. My question, knowing this girl has workout classes at Barry's on Saturday,

Sunday morning is a creepy of me if I adjust my walk schedule to take my walk earlier in the hopes that I'll run into her again and have more conversations. Like when she think it's weird if this guy doesn't really know all of a sudden, starts walking around that area and running into her? It's pretty much the route I always walk anyway. I've never really met, dated a girl outside of online dating or meeting them in school scenarios. So just randomly meeting a girl on the walk is kind of a foreign concept to me.

Hey, guess what? People used to do it, man. Yeah. That's called the old way. Yeah. People saw other people in person and then said, hello. That's called the old way. Yeah. People saw other people in person and then said hello. It's fucking crazy.

Boomers gonna be fired up about that. Before there was a swipe right, there was a hello. Yeah, hey, there you go, Kyle. That'd be a good intro to the Netflix doc. Get to work on that. She was cool and I hope I run into her again and see her if I can chat with her more, maybe ask her out, but I'm just not sure

if she think it's creepy if you ran into her again around the same time I can chat with her more, maybe ask her out, but I'm just not sure if she'd think it's creepy if we ran into each other again around the same time on a weekend again, hope this makes sense. Wonder if any female listeners have any thoughts. We don't need any one else's thoughts. Just go for the fucking walk. Just go for a walk. You know?

I don't think it's weird if you change the time you do your walk. It's not. But if you start walking past her house because you know exactly where it is. Like it's not weird if you're like, oh. He's not asking that. Right. It's, he basically was like, it's my normal walk.

Like just keep walking. Can I do it, should I not do it? Like what do you want me to say? Then do it. I think I'm gonna buy a treadmill. This is all too much. He never leaves his house again. We're Amazon freshing everything.

I'm not even gonna to take the chance. Dudes have been adding a few extra steps along the way just to alter the path to romance. Yeah, I mean, people have been doing this forever. What they used to, I guess. Yeah, none of this is creepy. I'm more worried that you think it's potentially creepy for you to just go, I'm gonna walk my dog on the same path

of the place that I already live, just adjust it to hopefully run into her again. I think that's normal. And if she's into you, it's even a little feather in your cake. You can tell that story at your wedding. Like, well, I never liked getting up early. And everybody laughs.

Yeah, I mean, you might even like the way you feel with a seven a.m. walk as opposed to 10. Yeah. This guy be ruling out coffee and desserts in the morning. Are you sure he didn't say, is it crazy if I just start walking by the place where I know she has the class? Quote, is it creepy of me if I adjust my walk schedule to take my walk earlier in the hopes that I'll run into her again

and have more conversations, end, question. But he also said like, I know where that Barry's is that she's talking about. Didn't he also say that? Yeah, but he said it's pretty much, I mean, look, if you're walking down to a side alley and you have clothes on a drying line, if they even have those anymore anywhere,

well, obviously, because I've been traveling around the world. Maybe you're a, yeah. But you're a pace driver, dryers. Yeah, dude, I think you're totally, totally fine. And I want you to be less apprehensive about this. He didn't mention anything that even- It's not like you're flying to a new city in the hopes to meet this girl

that you've never even met in real life, that you've just seen on Instagram, which definitely happens, by the way. That's fucking creepy. I thought, well, that's insane. That sounds like a good use of money. I don't know why, I mean, I thought he was going to say, like, should I go to Barry's? Start with like, yeah, I just really need, you know, Well, there'll be rubbernecking in the window of Barry's. That's the other thing. If you're like, is she in there today? Like, because you don't want to get caught doing that,

but just do your normal thing. You know, I, when I first moved here, there was like girls I'd see around and I'm like, all right, well, should I, I wonder if they're over here today, but like, don't you don't want to be like rubberdecking. When I first, I was just trying to get the land in. If they're over here today. Well, I know they live right off Melrose, just like me, but you know.

Was there a depth chart? I was just trying to get my, you know, get my bearings, just trying to get the, you know, the top of graphical map in my head, just know what's what. Okay. All right. Good luck, dude. Yeah, good luck. But I don't think you have anything to worry about at all. All right, we had another quick one here that I don't,

I don't think is that big of a deal. Hey guys, long time no see. Uh, all right. We had another quick one here that I don't, I don't think is that big of a deal. Hey guys, a long time passive listener of the pod via my fiance who listens religiously. I'm five foot one oh five and squat 100 pounds. My fiance's NBA compass, Tony Parker without a left hand. Okay. So, uh, woman. We're talking about a woman. Yep. Here's the situation. 30 years old, live in New York city.

I have an old friend who I know from sleepaway camp, which I stopped going to at 15. That's a good stat. We were just friendly. Weren't in the same circle. Didn't stay in touch after our camp days through our college of the year since. We both happened to end up in New York city after college and actually started working in the same company as her. This is around five years ago and she'd already been working there for a the years since. We both happened to end up in New York City after college and actually started working at the same company as her. This was around five years ago

and she'd already been working there for a couple of years prior. This is a massive PR agency with thousands of employees. We weren't in the same department nor did we work on the same floor pre-COVID. That being said, when we both realized we were at the same company, we reconnected and interacted occasionally

in this office's work acquaintances, mostly complaining about work and sharing advice about the company. These interactions were always initiated by her and just consisted of coffee breaks or quick walks around the office. Important to note, and not to tout my own horn, is it, I don't believe it was two.

Maybe that's just the European, like how you spell armor differently if you want to. Yeah, I don't think that's true either, but we'll go with it, tout my own horn. There's no you in armor, but for Europeans, I think so. I'm not talking about that or favorite. Sorry. I'm just talking about the term, the phrase.

Okay. No, you know, who knows things of all, uh, I had a good circle of genuine friends within my department that relied on, she seemingly didn't have other work friends and I believe I was her main outlet to vent complaint etc. After four years of working at the company I left in 2023 while she still works there today. Since I left my friend has been somewhat consistently reaching out to me to hang out. I'm talking one every one to two months she texts me asking to go for a walk at a drink at morning coffee before work. The first couple times she asked I engaged due to wanting to be nice and partly because I was

interested in hearing gossip about my own company. Every time it's this exact same conversation, she only complains about her job. Recently, I've been taking longer and longer to respond to her texts, which typically end up being noncommittal answers, only for her to follow up to continue pushing to set up a plan. She never gets the hint. I don't want to be a dick, but I just don't want to hang out with her. I have a good circle of friends where she seems to rely on me as an outlet for her to continue to complain about her job. I have no interest in continuing to serve as an outlet.

She also may not have any friends, which is where I think this is at. So I don't think it's just an outlet to complain. You said she has no friends at work. So, I mean, this is the struggle of power and any dynamic, whether it be a relationship or just friendship. If you have a ton of friends and you're like, I don't even really like this person all that much and she has none and you're cool. She's not going to, she's going to be tough for her to let that go. It's going to be a tough breakup.

There's only so many times you give me the same simple advice or I can give her the same simple advice. Get a new freaking job. It's worth reiterating. We weren't friends before working together. We were only kind of friendly during. I really thought a relationship would fizzle out once I left. As typical for an old work acquaintance.

What should I do? How do I end this relationship? Please help. Yeah, I mean, this is pretty obvious, right? Like she's not as cool as you and she looks it. Oh, what? I mean, am I wrong? No, no. Yeah. I, you're not wrong. It just blunt. Basically it's the friend version of how hot is she? Right?

Kinda. Yeah. It seems like that situation where there's a reason she's hitting you up because she's crazy. That's why she doesn't have friends. And that's why she keeps hitting you up. Cause you're the one person that keeps giving her attention. So kind of a bummer. Yeah, look, it's pretty amazing when you think about like how often someone will hit you up and then it'll break into this.

Like, I don't know, bracket's not the right term here, but it just maybe bucket. I think it's the second time I've used it this episode, but it's two buckets down. Yeah. Just like, Hey, I don't want to hang out. I can't do that. Yeah. Fairly obvious. You just got to kind of ghost her. Can't you just ghost her? Like, you know, just respond to whatever out of every three texts. Like you said, you're delayed responding. Just, just cut a couple responses out. You know, that saves you a couple of months. She said she reaches out every couple of months. You know, I think you're, you're not being harsh enough for her to get the hint.

I think. Yeah. You have to wean her off your texts. That's it. I mean, you're dealing with it right now. Methadone. Yeah. How are you?

What do you got going on? Well, it's even tougher because I see dudes at the bar and they're like, we should totally hang out and somehow I got my number and it's just, sometimes it's odd hours text and others it's like we're doing this thing you want to come and I'm just like I don't know I don't think so sometimes I don't answer sometimes I do I keep you know I have to run into this person quite often but I'm just not interested in pursuing anything outside of hey we're both at this bar at the same time so it's a little bit harder but i'm navigating it right now i'm not answering every text pretty much non committal stuff maybe i'm busy i'm working i don't know you know.

What could be with nba season starts a little easier to make it football and basketball i really just this is my only free time when i'm here so i can i'll see when i see. I'm working i'm working on that too i think think you just, you don't want to say, I'm not interested. Back off. It's just, maybe next time. And sometimes I don't get back to you. Hey, look, I've been on the other side of it. You're like, hey, this person, how many times have I reached out? And then you ask, do you want to do something? And you go, oh my God, am I? Yeah. I would love. What's your text look like? Is it a lot of blue? Then maybe take a step back.

Oh my God, like this is happening to me? This is weird. But whatever we're talking about here is like, you don't care, you don't wanna be her friend. You haven't presented, I mean, you could say you're in the same industry and maybe you don't wanna turn it is, but you never even brought that up.

So it seems like you're not even gonna care that much anyway. I mean, I don't know if there's something you could say you're in the same industry and maybe you don't want to turn it as, but you never even brought that up. So it seems like you're not even gonna care that much anyway. I mean, I don't know if there's something you could do that's like, what could you do that's offensive, but not terrible? A woman president? Oh my God, LOL. No, and then she might be so disappointed in you, you know, a couple of sleep away Camp buddies 15 years ago.

But I knew you. Yeah. Like, oh my God, you're voting for him? Yeah. And then it's like, well, this is over. That's actually happening to a lot of people. Right. From life.

Yep. From place. I was gonna say you could try the new number thing, but if you both have iPhones, I think the jig is up pretty fast with that. Yeah, you can't. Yeah.

When you couldn't you like delete her as a contact and then it resets her back to green? I think that's silly. I look into that. But then she then it ends up she's you know, she's really weird. You can be like, you know, murder mystery. I tracked you down. What happened? I look, what are you asking? You were asking,

how do I handle someone I don't care about and want nothing to do with moving forward? And you're right. They're constantly complaining about a job. I had a phase of a little while where I complained to my girlfriend about my job for way too long. I look back, I'm like, that wasn't fun. That's my fucking fault. And she sat and she listened and she listened and she listened and I Did it for way too long. I regret my apologies to you retroactive It just sucks It sucks to hear the other person complain about their job all the time when they have nothing else to bring to the table And you don't even want to hang out with this person

You don't this isn't a friend that you're annoyed with that you want to remain friends with This is someone you don't want to be friends with that is annoying. Yeah. She's not going to, she's not going to hang out with this person. I think she's just choosing your own adventure about how not to hang out with them. And I think it's either keep the texts going sparsely and you know, less and less sounds like she's not going to take the hint or you just don't answer.

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