The Ryen Russillo Podcast - The Anthony Edwards Problem and a Trade Rule Every Team Should Follow With Raja Bell

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Russillo shares his thoughts on Knicks-Lakers, RJ Barrett's minutes, the scrappy Heat and their win over the Cavaliers, the bleak situation around Anthony Edwards in Minnesota, Lakers trade rumors, and more (0:41). Then Ryen talks with The Ringer's Raja Bell about Jokic vs. Embiid, Darius Garland's offense, Anthony Edwards's development, whether or not to trust the Clippers, trade deadline stories, and more (21:22). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (57:49). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Raja Bell Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's podcast i am going to talk about last night and nights before that it's more of a tales from the couch but then also kind of creeping into concerns i have or observations and ahead of the trade deadline. Roger Bell. We're going to talk Denver. We're going to talk Anthony Edwards. We're going to talk when he was a Phoenix, adding somebody like Shaq, a team that adds a big thing to it and kind of changes who you are. And we've got a great, great life advice for you here because we let Kyle explore the space a bit.

This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes.

Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. almost anything delivered with uber eats order now alcohol and select markets product availability may vary by region see app for details this is tails from the couch but it kind of isn't it's just a bunch of thoughts so there you go which is really all sometimes it's like really really intense maybe during the playoffs to be more intense than some of that stuff so i want to start with the next they lose to the lakers last night. The Lakers, kind of looking all right.

I would say that they're okay. They don't seem to like to get to the Anthony Davis a ton lately, though. I can't believe in that game against Boston. If you have Brogdon guarding you, you're like, wait, why can't you do this? Why can't you attack a little bit more? The Lakers, as it stands now, after that win, they are only two games out of the playing game. All right, but we'll bring up the Lakers later. I want to start with the Knicks here, which isn't the most important thing from last night,

but that's just where I'm going to go. Okay, the Knicks' fourth quarter offense on the season is 26th. All right, and why do I bring that up? Because Brunson's been terrific for them. And I would put him, though, on my all NBA first team of guys that I really get frustrated

with the calls that they get. He gets every call. But he's really good. And there was this kind of clutch points number where if you weren't watching the Knicks all the time and seeing some of this fourth quarter stuff, you were like, well, wait, he's third in clutch points, right? Brunson's averaging

4.2 points in clutch um then there's some of the fourth quarter numbers where just like brunson overall like look how great he's been and then you're like yeah but the next offense isn't that good in the fourth quarter although clutch is obviously a small sliver of that fourth quarter some of the other fourth quarter stuff that i was looking up to like k Kyrie leads the NBA in points per fourth quarter, but he also plays almost the entire fourth quarter, where Giannis plays like two minutes less than him. Steph plays like four minutes less,

because Steph was always somebody that would come back in at six during those runs. He comes in a little bit earlier now with Golden State. So the point that I'm making here is like, okay, so the Knicks, we know that Brunson's been really good for them. That clutch part has been really good for him specifically, but overall their fourth quarter offense isn't really that good. So I'm looking at some of the rotation. By the way, fourth quarter offense, don't freak out about it too much.

I mean, other contenders, Milwaukee's 27th in fourth quarter offense. It doesn't really mean that much with the health issues they've had from scores. Memphis is 29th. I don't know if that's an issue of being a little too predictable and how that'll play in the playoffs and again i'm presenting these as i don't know but they're not great numbers so and even there can be times too where your first quarter numbers are bad and it's like yeah well that's because like the scores were kind of decided but that's not really the case because a lot of these games end up being close at some point even when somebody's up 20 which is always surprising again too when like a team's up

20 and they're like oh they, they blew the lead. Like everybody blows those leads because the other team plays harder when they're down 20. It happens every single night, multiple times a night. So I looked at the RJ Barrett part of this. If you remember and you listened to the pod for a while, or at least just last year, I started having these moments where I was watching RJ Barrett, where I felt like he just looked like a better player. The numbers didn't necessarily mean he was making this massive leap, but he just looked like he was locked in in a way that I hadn't seen before. It gave me hope that he could be a really good player. One of my rules with substitution patterns is that I feel like the

coach tells you how he feels about the guy, a lot like Trubisky on third down with the Bears. When I'd see the play call, I'd go, they don't seem to really trust him all that much. So RJ's getting subbed out in the fourth quarters, but then he's kind of coming back in. But he didn't come back in last night. Against the Lakers, he was subbed out for Grimes, which is normal substitution pattern for Thibodeau, at 651, and he didn't play any of the fourth in overtime.

Against Brooklyn, he was subbed out at 652 for Grimes, then came back in at 143 down four. So that's one minute, 43 seconds left. Against Boston, he was subbed out five minutes ago, then came back in with two minutes to go. So part of it's the pattern of where he wants to break him. And against Boston, he had played in the overtime, hit a huge three, two big free throws.

But keep going back, like against Cleveland, he was subbed out at 7-12 and came back in at 131 left, down three. RJ's overall numbers, if you look at his numbers in January, he's 21-5. He's 45% from the floor, 37% for three. His overall minutes in the fourth quarter are still pretty high because he starts the fourth there. But I just wonder, and it's something to keep monitoring there,

I guess Thibodeau likes Grimes defensively better than RJ. I guess he could argue, hey, it's just the way I want to sub it out. But if you're out during those six to seven minute stretches with a minute and a half, two minutes left the rest of the way,

that might tell you that maybe they don't love him. Again, it's something that I would say is more like I'm going to monitor it, but he was straight-up benched last night. So it was kind of developing in that way, and then last time I watched the game going, oh, he's just done with them. So there you go. There's a little Knicks talk.

They're the seventh seed. About what you would expect if you've watched them this year, they'll be in the playoffs. I don't know that anybody's going to be scared of them. Speaking of seeding, Miami is the sixth seed today. They have won seven of the last 10.

Let's go over some of this Miami stuff. They're only four and a half games behind Philly, who's in the third spot. They're on fire. By the way, Philly has won eight of 10. I know they lost to Orlando the other night. They get the rematch tonight. I love that Orlando team.

I know they're not great, but damn, I love them. But Miami is now 10-5 in January. Now, what's my issue with Miami? I don't know if they're going to have enough offense to scare anybody. Their offense still isn't good. They're 26th in January. Guess what? They're number one in defense. They're two points better than the number two defensive team for the month of January, and that was Memphis. That's a massive gap. The difference is always going to be with them where they're going to play probably harder than you. They're

most likely the better coach than you are. The rotation stuff, you're looking at it going, well, these guys are playing again. Well, Butler's played 13 of the 15 games, which is huge. Bam's played 13 of 15. Hero's missed five. Lowry looks to be completely out of the closing group now. He's played 11 games.

He's sixth in January in minutes. His numbers for January are abysmal. Seven points a game, four assists. 38% from the floor overall, 26%. I don't know if he's done done, but it seems like he's done in the rotation part of this. Miami, despite an offense that I was

questioning last year, and they were still a shot away from playing for an NBA championship, which I still can't believe how it came down to that shot. I don't like the offense enough, but they're creeping up here. They really are Miami-Philly in the first round. I mean, nobody's picking Miami as of right now, but who knows where this goes, especially if, I don't know if Lowry has anything,

if there's something there at the trade deadline. But I'll give them this, man, the toughness part of it. They beat Cleveland last night, and Cleveland's a way more talented team. And I'm going to say this about Cleveland because I like them so much. And my standard for them is very high, even though they're young, I expect this group to do something. And I don't know that it's, the East is really good this year.

So you can say, what does that mean? What if they're playing a healthy Brooklyn in the four or five and they lose in the first round? Does it mean you think they suck? No, but I think they should be competitive with almost any team here. Maybe not Boston,

maybe not Milwaukee, but hell you can even make an argument for Boston that after a massive 20 and five star, it wasn't like, what are they? I'm allowing myself that, but then again, they're kind of looking at some of their health in the last couple of games

and missing Rob Williams and missing Marcus Smart too. But again, everybody can play this game. Same for Cleveland, who would say in January, well, wait a minute, Donovan Mitchell missed seven games. But almost every team can play that game where it's like, well, our guys are kind of missing at this point. So the reason I bring this up is Cleveland was 8-1 to start. They're 23-21 since, that's what, November 7th.

Looking at some of the other numbers for them, I always feel like it's that third spot where it's like, is it Levert who I don't like and Okoro? But Okoro is actually 48% from three this month, which is insane. Levert's 43% from three this month as well. So then I'm like, well, wait a minute. Does it mean I'm wrong about these guys? No, I don't think so.

I mean, obviously you knew I was going to say that. But if you look at Okoro's months, he shot 0% from three in October, November 28%, December 29%. So that third spot, that shot is going to be there all the time because of how much you have to help on Garland, how much you have to help on Mitchell,

how much you have to worry about rolling Allen in the nights where Mobley has a little bit more juice to him offensively, and despite his huge night a couple weeks ago where he had 31, he was fucking awesome. I don't know that you're penciling that in all the time. I guess I was just really upset with Cleveland because I thought Miami was way tougher than them.

There was a stretch there where Butler got Mobley, went right at him, put his shoulder right into his chest and knocked Mobley backwards. Butler got Mobley again, then got switched off of him, and Mobley fought went right at him, put his shoulder right into his chest, knocked Mobley backwards. Butler got Mobley again, then got switched off of him, and Mobley fought back to get it, and Butler didn't even care. They couldn't get the ball inbounds. There was a moment where Allen would have these nice cuts to the rim, but then would be super hesitant once he was there.

It's like, dude, it's you and Mobley against Bam. Go for it. There also was a loose ball where they didn't get it twice against Miami. It was huge possessions, and they needed it, and they didn't get it. There also was a loose ball where they didn't get it twice against Miami. It was a huge possessions and they needed it and they didn't get it. I don't know if this is something that I now say, well, Cleveland's a little too soft for me. I'm not saying that. What I am saying is last night they were soft and they got kind of grown up last night by the Miami heat. So that was frustrating. Nice win for the heat. Okay. Keeping it moving here. What else? What else do we have? Oh, let's talk Ant. So,

Minnesota's an 8 seed this morning. They were a 5 seed two days ago. Welcome to the West. Again, a month ago, New Orleans was a half a game behind Denver for the number one spot. Today, they're 10th. They're 3-14 in the last 17. I thought they fought hard. I thought Brandon Ingram looked the best

he has after missing 29 games. Don't know they used CJ a ton. I actually like the way Larry Nance tries to battle the Jokic. It doesn't mean a ton. There was a huge screw-up there late where after a make, they let Jokic beat him with KCP and a layup. And then when you help off a Jokic, guys

cut. We've all been over this a million times before. Nothing to see here. Murray, some huge shots last night too. There you go. Bones apparently out of the rotation huge shots last night, too. So there you go. Bones, apparently out of the rotation five minutes last night, didn't get back in. I don't know what the trade value for him would be. I think it was just, you know, when I was talking about Bones Highland, I'd say, man, when it's right, it's right.

But boy, when it's not, it is a mess. I think there's too many of the second nights for Denver lately. Okay, so back to Anthony Edwards here in Minnesota. This is going to get rough. Buckle up. The trade deadline's a week away. They beat Sacramento and then they lost to them.

I thought that Mike Brown did a really good job with some bonus fouling out in the more recent matchup where Sacramento won in overtime against Minnesota where they put in Trey Liles and Liles just moves around.

He was their five and he's running around all over the place and Minnesota had a brutal time trying to figure it out. Anthony Edwards in January is 27, 6, and 5, 47 from the floor, 39% from three. I love him. We know that. I think he has a chance to be on that very short list of players who can impact a franchise in a major way. And that list is usually like six or seven for me, if I wanted to be totally honest. Maybe that list should only be like three guys. But you get my point. I think he has that chance, and I rarely say that about players.

about players. If you wanted to knock him a little bit for, is he still a little young and immature and that kind of stuff, all right, fine, whatever, you got me. But I really hate the situation that he's in, so let's examine it. I'm going to try to be nice about this with D'Angelo Russell, but I think he's the worst player in the league that plays a lot of minutes. I think he's the worst player in the league that plays a lot of minutes. That was me being nice. He is so damaging to what you're trying to fucking do every night that it's awful. It's awful.

I wouldn't pick him in a pickup game. I know what you're going to say, D'Angelo Russell fans, or hopeful T-Wolves fans that think that you're actually going to get something for him in a trade deadline that matters. In January's 19-6, two and a half forwards, the shooting numbers are insane. 47% from the four, 46% from three on seven attempts. He is lighting it up. So I know you're going to throw those at me. I shouldn't have said T-Wolves. Sorry. I don't care. I don't care what those numbers are because it's funny when he was coming out of school, I was like, man, he's got this

great pace, his read, his feel. It's like, no, he's just slow and casual. He's way too casual with the basketball. He's a casual basketball player. He's just out there running around. He gets lost. He freelancesances I'd rather have Westbrook alright, you've listened to me long enough you know what that means, so to have that paired next to Anthony Edwards is a disaster I don't even think Finch wants to play him I was going through some of the rotation stuff

with RJ Barrett, look at it with D'Angelo Russell at times, I think he's kind of stuck he's got to play him they are paying him, he is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year, they got to get him away from Anthony Edwards and I'd imagine that if he's got to play him. They are paying him. He is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the year. They got to get him away from Anthony Edwards, and I'd imagine that if he's not traded, then he would be gone this summer.

Carl Anthony Towns, I know he's out, and you're thinking, well, wait, without Towns, this is what we're doing. We were a five seed a couple days ago. I don't think Towns has the mentality of a guy that's really going to be a foxhole guy for you. I just don't. I've thought it for a long time. I'm trying to be nicer. And he's also, it's almost like tall D'Angelo Russell at times. Awesome numbers, incredible talent. I don't know what it means. I could watch a Timberwolves game and give you 10 to 15 clips

of D'Angelo Russell doing stuff that I'm like, I can't believe this guy does this stuff. So then that leads us to Gobert. We all know the price that was paid and it was brutal. Gobert age 31 to 33 is going to make 41 million, 44 million. I usually make that player option joke where I'd say in three years, he's probably going to pick up that player option for 46 million. So let's go ahead and break that news right now. Sources here, the Ryan Rosillo podcast. I could actually see where he would opt out and do like in a new cap version, let me get three years for $90 and $30 million a year doesn't even seem that expensive.

That would be like halfway to the max or something. So he may decide to opt out of that. The problem is, is now you have two guys that I don't think understand winning. You have Gobert that costs all of this stuff and is declining and then can get played off the floor because it happens. Been saying it for years.

Against certain matchups, Gobert is a liability. I don't want to hear about screen assists. It's a real thing. Utah no longer defends it. But the picks, and it's not just about Walker Kessler right now, right? The Utah pick,

Timberwolves will have their own 24. 25 is the Utah pick. 26 is 24. 25 is the Utah pick. 26 is swap. 27 is the Utah pick. 29 is top five protected. I would always love to know what those conversations are like where Justin Zanuck and Ainge are talking to Tim Conley and Matt Lloyd. And by the way, I think the Timberwolves front office is awesome.

I feel like this has a lot of new owner syndrome written all over it with a Gobert transaction. But when they're going, all right, we want 29. Well, we can't have that one unprotected as well. It's like, no deal. What about top five protected? What about top 10 protected? No deal.

Like you were going to say no to it until it became top five protected. That stuff fascinates me and will always fascinate me and how those calls actually work. So the reason I've done this and repeated it all, stuff that you've all heard before, is that when I watch Anthony Edwards, I go, how long is this going to happen? How long is this going to happen? How long is he going to let it happen? Because not only do you have two players that I don't think are winners next to him, you also have to go bear and all the assets that you moved out. So you're not even going to be able to draft some of these other young guys

to add to it. And it's not like Minnesota's some massive free agent destination. So you could argue well, they don't want to use their picks waiting for the guy that wanted to go to Minnesota. Right? We know that was going to happen. But now it's like you're stuck stuck. And it's so easy for the rest of us to be like,

well, this is going to work. Do it over again. They just did it. They just did it. It just makes me wonder how weird the Anthony Edwards situation could get if he continues to ascend as a player, which I believe that he will, and the pieces around him are just in his way. Everybody does the rookie extension.

But this is way, way is getting way ahead of it. But I feel like he's in a situation now where he's just going to be treading water for a really long time. It's not like, hey, really good player has bad things around him. It's really good player, has a couple teammates I don't like, another one that seems outdated. Oh, and all the assets that we would use to maybe add other pieces to Anthony Edwards as he enters his prime. We don't even have those for the most part. They've got a couple picks here or there.

Maybe they get creative. But it's not ideal, and they've made it even worse and more challenging for somebody who's going to want help at some point and may get so frustrated, he's going to look around going, what am I doing here?

All right. We finish with this then. Because of the picks thing. The Lakers. And some of the trade stuff that you've heard. The Vucevic rule. I'm giving. A front office guy credit for this.

I'm not going to name him. But we were talking about trades. And he said something to me. That I think is very simple. But should be kind of the rule. That every front office has. When you're thinking about trades. If you look back at the Vooch trade,

you know, it's disastrous now. You wouldn't trade Vooch for any one of the single things that they combine to do in that deal. You wouldn't trade Wendell Carter for Vooch. You certainly wouldn't trade Franz Wagner.

You wouldn't give him, you might not give him Mo. I don't know. That may be a little harsh. And you wouldn't give him what is a top four protected pick this year, right? You wouldn't say,

okay, we want Vooch back. We'll give you back your top four. You wouldn't do it. Not even close. People laugh at you. And those are the three things that you gave up. The two picks, Franz, the two picks, Vooch, Franz, the one to be this year

and then Wendell Carter, right? So when you're thinking about doing that trade, you would ask yourself as a team, and this is again, credit to my front office guy, which we should all be able to figure out, but it just sounds smarter from him. He's like, okay, I'm doing this and I'm moving these assets.

What does this guarantee me? What does this guarantee us as a franchise? And for the Bulls, and to call myself out a bit, I felt like, hey, instead of waiting around and see if we can get one of those top five guys that gets mad every now and then, or a top 10 guy,

like let's spend our money on Lonzo, Caruso, DeRozan, and we trade for Vooch, and we'll see what happens. What happens is the East got real good, real quick. And Chicago, after that fun little ride last year, an awesome fan base. I love those games, United Center and Saturday night, just watching how intense that was. It was fun. But now it isn't fun because they're just not that good. And all these teams in front of them are just straight up better. And I don't know that there's some path where Chicago all of a sudden is competing with them. Chicago is now tied with the Pacers, but out of the playing game. So they're technically the 11th this morning. That's awful. That's not what you had. I mean, look, Lonzo Ball's a nice player. He's not the reason

you're the 11th seed today. Okay. So you do a deal like that and you know the answer is what does this guarantee you? And the answer is nothing. Doesn't guarantee us anything. Doesn't guarantee us a first round win. Doesn't guarantee us like, oh, we're definitely

in the top four. They're not even close to a lot of stuff. So the trade didn't work out. I understood why they did it at the time. But to go after a big like that and use those kind of assets,

there's always a lesson there. Again, ask Minnesota. That's why I think the Lakers, when you look at what they could potentially do, because it's better. It's better now. It feels like they have a few more options. Anthony Davis will get better if he doesn't get hurt again, which might be the better bet.

But the Lakers are sitting there at two out behind the Pelicans. The Thunder are ahead of them. Portland's ahead of them. So the Lakers at 24-28 or 11.5 out of 1, 9.5 behind the Pelicans. So you get the point. Two games behind the Pelicans there. But again, with teams in front of them. So it's not just this direct path to catch them.

If you were going to move one of those picks in 27 or 29, you have to take yourself through that process of what does this guarantee me? What does Miles Turner guarantee me? What is this other expensive piece where I'm flipping? What does this guarantee me? And if you're the Lakers, even with LeBron and healthy Anthony Davis, I don't know that it guarantees you anything. And that should be when you stop asking if she'd make that trade. Fired up. We got Rajah Bell with us today.

Always enjoy catching up with him during the season. He and Logan Murdoch, the real ones, part of our podcast network here at Ringer Spotify. Morning, man. What's going on? Just hanging in, brother. Thanks for having me as usual. Okay. All right.

Let's talk a little bit about Jokic and Embiid here. This has become quite the camp thing. A lot of the arguments I don't love, I would say, I would be straight up dismissive of a lot of them. But then we see the game over the weekend where Embiid gets the win, dominant second half, Tucker's all over Jokic. Nice adjustment there. And I wonder how much impact that'll have if it comes down to those two in the MVP race.

I just want to ask from just a straight baller, basketball part of this. I know what they both are. I think I do. Do you see a game like that or do you see the course of their careers or even season to season and be like, why are you guys arguing about this when and beat is the more dominant player because that's what it felt like for weekend and for me personally i wouldn't look at that game and then go okay now i'm done with the yokich camp thing uh i'm just curious kind of how you see that yeah that's it's an interesting question because i i am you know as someone who physically played the game, like been in the trenches of the

battle, had to guard people that if you are physically outmatched, there's nothing you can do with them, you know? And Embiid represents that to just about every single person in the league. So if you make me pick, or if you're asking me about the two, I typically say MB just because I know what type of skill set, size, athleticism equation he has that even the second best big is not going to have really any answer for some of the things he's able to do. Where Jokic, you just look at him through kind of a different prism. You have to appreciate the skill, the cleverness, the craftiness, the unorthodox nature with which he does stuff, the way he outsmarts opponents all the time. And it's fantastic. But if you made me pick between one of those two, and usually people

are going to ask you, I always go with Embiid just because he's got all of that stuff too. usually people are going to ask you i always go with mb just because he's got all of that stuff too and he's just he's just so freaky physically gifted and we discount that a lot i mean because today's you know we live in the day in the age of uh of the luca and the and the and the um and the nicola and players who can kind of get away with being maybe less athletic i hate when people say they're unathletic because that's so ridiculous. You're comparing him to the most athletic people on the planet. So therefore, he might look slightly less athletic, but it's not that they're unathletic. But in that world, you have to have this appreciation for what those guys are able to do without being able to put their armpit on the rim. But I still, when push comes to shove and

we're comparing apples to apples and everything's even, I mean, you got to give me bigger, stronger, faster if everything else is even. Yeah, it's totally fair. And I kind of hate where this has gone the last couple of years because I love both players so much. And I love Embiid's personality, honestly. And I feel like those closest to him seem to want to build up this idea that Embiid's like disliked.

And it's like, look, the fan votes, the one that screwed him. It wasn't a media vote. It wasn't a player's vote. Uh, I also think that the players, like you just said, as a former player,

there's, there's a respect level that maybe you have for the physical dominance of a player. Cause you had to be out there that some of us don't understand, but you know, whenever anybody says, Oh, Jokic is a stat creation thing.

You're like, by the way, the stats that Jokic excelled in that were absurd, like Embiid was second or third in the same stats last year. So we can't just dismiss that these are all these made-up stats that Jokic is good and Embiid is bad. And Embiid was amazing in them too. He was behind Jokic.

I do think if you wanted to get into it, because every player has some flaw you can find if you really want to, and we're talking about two of the top, I would say, I think it's a top six group for that first group, that first tier this year. I'll ask you how you feel about it. I'm worried about Jokic defensively. There was a Sacramento game where they went at him

five times and put him in the action and it was a problem. You go back to that Sun series and it's a problem. Maybe you think Gordon helps that. I think they did that last night against New Orleans where they were bringing those guys back in no matter what, but you can see there was a slight difference defensively. That's the

flaw for Jokic that I worry about him being exposed a bit. When you say that, it's like, okay, I got to go with Embiid. The Embiid flaw isn't necessarily even his fault. I don't know if a team's going to win 16 games in the playoffs because that's, I think, the standard that you have to look at the Sixers with here.

Alright, you guys should be thinking about winning a championship. They've been great lately. Is that I don't know if a team wins 16 games running their offense through a big guy. I just don't know if the game allows that to happen anymore. And I do get frustrated at the turnovers late, but I also think it's not always his fault

because I'll see him get an entry pass. The double comes. He's a terrific reader of, of help defense. He was that even going back to Kansas. It was one of my favorite things about him. Like this guy's already figured this shit out with these passes. But when Harden doesn't have the ball anymore,

he's done with the play. He's like, okay, I'm done. So to watch Harden not move off an entry pass and then everybody wait and then have everybody swarm and beat. I don't even blame him for all the turnovers, which by the way,

our problem, he has a lot of turnovers late games. Uh, I wonder if that's the flaw that's more damaging than the defensive flaw of Jokic. And I don't have a definitive answer, but I think it's a great part of the debate of the two players. Yeah,

it's an, it is a definite interesting part of the debate. And I think a lot of the answers to the question or the debate, they lie with the coaches, right? It becomes the people that are scheming to try to hide those deficiencies job to help said player overcome and help ultimately the team overcome the deficiencies. And so as it pertains to Jokic, can only do what you can do from a physical standpoint. I mean, you got what you got. So the question for the Nuggets is how do you,

I hate to use the word hide, but how do you minimize the amount of times that someone could get him caught in an ISO situation or in a precarious defensive spot? And I've played on plenty of teams like that. Like Steve Nash, one of the greatest point guards of all time, but of the roster we had created with the Suns, we wanted to try to, as many times as possible, keep Steve out of a situation defensively where it would create some sort of help. And then the ball gets to start swinging around. So, you know, like, and then for Embiid, I mean, it was the million dollar question wherever James Harden was going to go. And I don't, I don't like to hang it all on James Harden. So I'm not, but he it's who he is. So,

so Doc and company, you know, we got to find creative ways to, to get him be that ball in quick situations. And it's not always ideal. Like sometimes you just got to come down and put it in, but if you know, the double is coming, well, can we creatively, and this is why I'm not a big money coach, I guess, can we creatively get him moving and get the ball moving to where it's, it gets to him and he can go to work relatively quick. And this is to some degree where I have had a beef with Embiid in years past. It's the pace with which you get into your stuff. If you know the double's coming, sometimes you have to accept it and make a play for someone else, provided said people will make their cuts and allow you to facilitate.

There are other times when you get it, I don't accept the double team. I'm just going to go. Some of the better bigs, at least in the eras that I played in, they'd go before you could get down there on the double. So as you're going down on the double, I mean, you're either going to get an elbow in the face and a defensive foul because you're late, or you got to concede that he's already in the process and let it go. So it was really interesting. I don't have the answer to it, but it does become an interesting chess match from the coach's perspective to try to minimize the exposure in those areas of weakness. Would you have words, terminology, just one word calls where you would change up what you would do where it's, okay, double on the catch,

double on the dribble, show the double. And then, you know, some teams are really good at this if they know, especially in a playoff series where you're just more and more comfortable where it's like, hey, let's pre-switch something so that they don't even understand what, like how quickly can you communicate that stuff? I mean, granted you're pro, you're pro NBA players, I get it, but it's not always the easiest execution to have multiple approaches defending somebody in that quick of an amount of time. No no typically happens during a timeout um you know you'll come in with your game plan and there are there is terminology from team to team that will change but most of the time like when you're doubling the post it's either on the catch it's after the first dribble or you know it's if

he gets two dribbles and he's deep in the paint we're gonna go hit it right like it's called a hit so you're gonna go get it out of his hands. On a ball handler, you know, you might, you might blitz it or, you know, there are different coverages, but you come into the game with those. And it is very, very difficult to change midstream on the fly as live action is happening. Like basketball is not like football where you get this organic break in between, you know, the actions. So most of the time that happens in a timeout. And I always found that when I guarded your Kobe's, your LeBron's, your Ray Allen's, all of Manu Ginobili's, guys that were going to have the ball a lot, if you gave them the same

look, while it could be a great look for them, they dial into that and eventually they're going to start to hurt you. So the changing throughout the game of looks is important when you do that is why the good coaches are, or the great ones are great, right? Like some, some of them might hop out of a coverage, maybe two plays before it exhausts its, its, its effectiveness. But you know, you didn't wait until he got hot and now it doesn't matter what coverage we're in. Yeah. You said a lot of great things in there. I don't want to spend 30 minutes just on coverages, but I want to spend a little bit more time on it.

Because you'll see a guy and you'll be like, oh, how come they didn't double? When I see a team try to double Luka back-to-back possessions, it's a disaster. You want to get the ball out of his hands on a shot clock possession, down one, or it's tied or something like that, I'm all for it. Make somebody else beat you because I think he's the best go-to. Like, hey, I need a bucket. He'd be my first pick out of the entire league. That's just how special he is at it. But when you are predictable against Luka, forget it.

And I think a lot of fans will go like, how come you don't double team? How come you didn't double team this guy? It's like, dude, if you consistently double team somebody in a predictable way, you're going to get torched four on three on the backside because now you have two people so far away from everything, it doesn't even matter so doubling becomes really tough the other thing that you said that i really liked is that a really you know post player who goes i'm not waiting for this shit like i'm not i'm not playing into your defense i'm not waiting and there's a perimeter player who i love that i think epitomizes this and darius garland i see so many perimeter players get the switch and it's a new thing that i feel like is happening more where the player is switching into a worse defensive option. I understand the switch

forces the defense to make some kind of decision. You could say, oh, in a 1-5, he's throwing it to him in the post. Nobody throws it to anybody in the post anymore. So even if they have a small guy on them in the switch, that's not the advantage. The guy brings it out. There are so many ball handlers that get the switch or, or get some kind of like, you know, the changes in front of them. And then they just reset everything. And so now the defense is like caught back up.

Like we may not like our defensive assignment on the ball handler, but now we're all facing it and ready to go. It, it's so funny to watch Garland. He doesn't wait. He just goes. And I think it's a massive advantage. And I think it's so many players don't do that. It's's you would think that's that would be i mean just a common sense thing but

i i often think that nba players at that level are just so gifted that there's there's just trust and belief in being able to create a shot at this point because everyone's trained to do it so if i can't get by you i can minimum i, at minimum, I can get to this aggressive downhill move, put some sort of punch or stop on it, and then get into a pop sidestep. And I've created space to get a shot. And it's a default. And I know I can get it regardless, but you're absolutely 1000% right. I coach high school and youth basketball, and we talk a lot. I mean, there are two things that I try to teach these kids when, when, when we're playing just kind of open, you know, today's style basketball, where there's nothing in the paint and we got five out and we're trying to movement, movement on the weak side

changes defensive assignments. So if you can get by your man on the strong side, I can't guarantee you that they've missed their, their, their, their rotation, but it's more likely if we're moving over there, right. Instead of just standing, because now you're just locked in and everything is vanilla for them. The other thing is exactly what you just said. Let's not mess around. Once we get what we like, let's get to work, right? Because as things are moving and as I've created this slight advantage, as a defender, I'm at my most vulnerable right now, right as I've switched on you and I'm not prepared for it. As soon as you take that one retreat dribble, not only am I locked in,

but all of those sets of eyes that are supposed to be in those gaps to protect me, everyone's kind of crunched the floor on you. So I do love the idea of getting right to work, provided not everybody's brain works the same way, right? Some people need that millisecond to kind of gather and get into their bag. But if you've got the ability to get right to work, I mean, it takes care of a lot of stuff. I'll never understand standing. I'll never understand it in basketball. I'll just, you know, and people look at the Warriors and they go, what, what is it? I go, look, that team's loaded and they're awesome, but they keep moving to the last second of the shot clock. The possession is not over. If the first thing is awesome, but they keep moving to the last second of the shot clock.

The possession is not over. If the first thing is shut off, they keep going. And I can't believe even at this level, there's so many possessions where it's like, oh, we didn't get the first thing. Okay. Well, I don't know. What do you guys want to do? It reminds me of this MMA guy that used to work at ESPN. I was asking him because he's training young guys. I was like, what do you do? How do you talk to him? He goes, the first thing I say to him is it's way more fun to try to hit somebody than get hit. So you've got two choices. You've got two choices. You can sit there and try to bob

and weave and all that shit. He's like, or you can like try to punch the other guy first. And once we get that into their head, you know, that's the seed that we plant. Like we want our fighters to attack. We don't want you to sit back and wait. By the way, I would think we both

should excuse LeBron from backing it out and resetting and deciding what he wants to do because he was just masterful at for 20 years like nobody was better like what lebron would get some new teammates i remember they'd be like oh you know he's always at a slow pace and he needs more athletes and he needs to get out of run it's like no he actually doesn't want to do any of those things he wants to play slow and he wants to dissect you and by the way his default is i'm just bigger and stronger and more athletic than you even even if I'm stuck and I'm just going to score and go to the rim. So it doesn't matter. So there's just too many guys that aren't him that back it out and they're doing the defense a massive favor. Absolutely. Now, what you just

described is a maestro. They exist. People who can orchestrate it and they have this beautiful mind for the way the chess pieces will move once he makes this one step to the right. I'm not telling you they don't exist. If you can do that, do it. But the league is littered with dudes who can get buckets but don't see it like that. and and you know the great point guards and and i mean there are other luca is a maestro too like you listen bro i'm not here to tell you to go fast when you see seven moves before anybody else sees do what you do but all the dudes who get buckets and don't see it like that yet a lot of young cats don't see it like that yet get to work okay i want to talk about ant speaking of young dudes because i feel like he as i mentioned in the open a chance, has a real chance to be one of these franchise-changing players. The problem is he's in a brutal situation with Minnesota and the roster. I'm not a huge fan of a couple of the players on the team.

It's well-established. What do you see when you watch him now? Who is he now to you? You don't have to do a comp necessarily, but just kind of like what do you allow yourself to envision about what his ceiling is it's a good it's a good question what do i allow myself so what i let's let's start with what i i what i see is a is a is a bucket um in in a way that it's a stratosphere of bucket getters that's that's relatively rare like There are guys that can just get buckets. There are guys that can shoot the ball. There are guys that can get to the cup. There are guys that can do certain things to get buckets. And then there's a very few rare era player that can just get a

bucket however you want it. Whatever you do to me, I'm able to create a bucket. I can get it here, there. I'm more athletic and I'm physically stronger than you. It's this unique compilation of size, skill, a la Embiid, but just in a different spot on the floor. They're gifted like that. What he can become, I think, it's dependent on his work ethic and his acceptance of leaders, not just having to do that, but having to you know make others around him better like these are the these are the details like we i do this all the time and people don't want to hear it but best players on the planet they have all they all have those type of skill size you know uh ability uh you know components they all have them. Then the separators of the ones that become great

are the intangible things. Do you lead? Can you hold people accountable? Are you willing to say my bad when you know damn well it's not your bad, but it's going to shield somebody else on that court from some criticism that they might not be able to handle at this point? Do you have the gravitas to run over to somebody that's playing on the floor with you even though that's your buddy and you guys are going out later and telling him that that was some bullshit and and it's not the time and place for that so cut it out like those type of things are part of a young players um part of what they need to mature into to be a superstar if you can understand what i'm saying i see all the physicals you are because like i'll never forget like there was a video of mj with carmelo and they were in the back like in a

training area and i think jordan was done at this point but like mellow was the jordan brand guy right and i i remember the video because it was so i don't know i don't know why i thought it was so impactful but he was just looking at mellow and he's like hey it's rebounds and assists it's rebounds and assists yeah he's like scoring. It's like scoring. Easy. Now, I don't know that Melo totally locked into that, although I think I'm more of a Melo fan than the public. He gets dumped on a lot.

My point is, to your thing, guys can get buckets. It's never been easier to get a bucket, ever, okay, than right now. And there's just so many players that put up numbers and i i don't know if we emphasize or if we sort them the right way and like okay this guy's scoring as much as this guy and he's shooting as well as this guy but there's all of that little stuff and i don't know if the little stuff matters as much because scoring so easy yeah well it it matters to i don't know if it matters as much uh today or to the way we talk about player like where they're right like the standard of what a star is i'm like yeah i know what those numbers are but dude i don't see it no that bar has definitely been lowered in terms of

the way it's covered right like right because we just everyone wants the bucket but i promise you i live in aAU gyms. You know how many 17 year olds you can give a ball to and say, hey, get buckets. And they can all do it because they've been trained to do it since they were five years old by pro trainers, mind you, right? So they have games that are mini Anthony Edwards games, but it does matter. And it hasn't been discounted within the winning community in the NBA, like the teams and the people who really understand what winning is about and value it and are chasing it. And they're trying to drive culture. Like they understand what

it is. So while we, as the general public might, might miss it on some level, they don't. And it becomes imperative that a young a young virgin and star like like anthony gets gets put in situations and empowered and even in some instances taught to do those things right and and and and you were talking about development now right this is development like something like that you see it it's tangible it's right there it's it's popping out of the seams every night, and you know what it could be, but now and shit like that. Like it's, it speaks to immaturity. It speaks to somebody in his camp, like, like not saying, Hey man, we got to, well, that might be true, bro. We're not up at press conferences. That's not like a real funny thing to necessarily talk about. And we live in a day and age where nutrition and the importance of it

has never been more paramount. Like you, we've got to start treating that body the way LeBron treats that body. So you could tell right there, you're not at that level you know so how are we getting him from hey i got all of this potential and we could build the franchise around him and could envision winning championships how do we get him from where we are now to where hey man don't ask me about hot fries bro i don't i don't i'm not up here to talk about hot fries like i'm you know what i mean we're dialing into his professionalism and helping him along on the arc yeah yeah i mean i think it comes with age he's gonna have to lose some but i just worry about the roster and the rest of it around it and i don't think that that's unfair of what you're saying because i think you can see at times with him but i would also counter

with we love the yannis dad jokes we love the funny stuff, but he's won. And with Giannis, I would say of any superstar that takes the court, he's the guy I'm the least worried about about wanting to rip the opponent's head off. There's none. There's never a part of me where I'm like, is he into this game tonight? And that's what I love the most about him.

And I don't worry about it necessarily in terms of of his like his his his on-court persona and what he's after and what's important to him like i think he's in the right spots with all of that what i what i'm kind of saying is like you know when you when when you hit that podium or different places and you are the face of the franchise while he is young, there should be someone. And this is bigger picture, so it's not really about Ant. I think this for me is more about Minnesota because I talk about this all the time. It's about their ability to bring in some of these pieces and take them from point A to point B. And once they've gotten to point B, mature them to point C.

And I worry about that. I don't worry about Ant necessarily. He's a baby. I mean, how old is he? I haven't even looked at his age. 21? 22? Yeah, man, you're going to be talking about

hot fries and stuff like that unless there's a real grooming process that's taking place there and people are like, hey, man, we're talking about championships. I was around X, Y, and Z player who's a Hall of Famer. Let me tell you at 21 what they didn't learn until 28. And if you learn it at 21, you're a step ahead of where they're at. I worry about that from an organizational standpoint. where they're at. I worry about that from an organizational standpoint.

New topic. Do you let yourself be back in on the Clippers? They're rolling right now. It looks good. Norman Powell is a third option too. I saw an interview with him. He was

smiling. it was hilarious he looks like the most miserable guy ever on a basketball court i've always loved his game going back to the you know the toronto stuff and all that zoo does a lot of good things but then they went small last night if they want to i i did a stubborn top 10 power rankings and i wouldn't even put them on it it was like peak they're not playing again and i was just so annoyed and frustrated i was like i forget and then you watch them and when it looks good, I don't know. I don't like when Stan Van Gundy will say like, hey,

they're still the best roster. They're still the best team. I think that's way too much praise and all of the warning of what it may look like. But damn, when it looks good, it looks good. It looked good last night. I think the thing is anytime...

And I'm with you on the Van Gundy thing, because I... I think it's overrating the roster. I think they got John Wall, and people were like, wow, look at all these guys. And you're like, all right, it's a good team, but I don't think it's the best roster. I'm with you. I don't think it's the best roster.

I appreciate you clearing that up for me. But here's what I will say to the roster. I appreciate you clearing that up for me. But here's what I will say to the roster. Whenever in a league that is predicated on wing scoring, when you have two elite, you know, semi-elite wing scorers, but they're both elite defenders, you got some action. I don't think Kawhi's an elite defender anymore. Well think he's an elite defender anymore. Well, you don't even you don't.

Here's the deal. There's a period of time between when you lose your elite defending status and and people figure out that you've lost your elite defending status where they're just not going to go off you based off reputation. You see it with corners all the time in the NFL. Like, you know, Revis Island wasn't Rivas Island for a while before people started figuring out he wasn't Rivas Island, you know? And so I think there's still an element of that. And no, I mean, I remember Bonds,

he was still getting walked that last year. I was like, maybe throw him some strikes, see what happens, see what happens. But I do think that you will get in a, in a shortened, in a shortened, heightened awareness type of digging into the numbers playoff scenario with two players like that. And I just think the world of T. Lou, I had some real conversations with him when I was in Cleveland schematically and just picking

his brain about when he was not the head coach about what was going on out there that I think he's as as as good as anybody at really digging in from game to game and trying to put you in a situation uh to make a move right and to see and to challenge you on that chessboard to counter what he's doing so you know I think they're real but I'm I'm reluctant like I wouldn't pick them I wouldn't necessarily pick them other than other than I don't know who exactly I would pick in the West. So maybe I just talked myself into it. Okay, but do you have, and I touched on this again in the open, you blink and the standings are upside down.

And you're like, wait a minute. And a couple of weeks ago, I was like, oh, the state's a couple of weeks away from all of a sudden being like, wait, they could be the three seed in this whole thing. The Pelicans, clearly with all the injuries, catching up to them, even though they have Ingram back now. I think his third game back was last night. Is there a team? Is Denver that team?

Whatever the Denver part of it has brought up, and for me, historically, their defense has never been good enough for me to take them totally seriously. I think we've also had teams in the past where it's like, no, I just like that team better, whether it was Golden State or whether it was the Lakers, you know, or maybe there was still probably more buying with the Clippers as opposed to the frustration that we have with them now. So when you're looking at Denver and where they were in the West, so I think the top has come down. So it means it's wide open. And defensively, if you go from December 1st until now, they're eighth. And the funny thing is, as great as that offense is, Philadelphia actually has the best offense in the NBA the last two months and Denver's third. Speaking of the Jokic-MB part of it,

I like their top six. It seems like Bones is out of the rotation and Christian Brown is now in, which is not terrible for your seventh or maybe eighth guy. I guess maybe I should say I love their top six, but I don't think it's wrong to still have questions about them because memphis is really good when they're right you know i'm not giving up on golden state i think it's a a bringing the top down to make it more crowded

as it is like being negative about the nuggets no 100 it's it's the margin the margin of difference between the teams in that West, in my opinion, has never been so small. And I agree with you. There's just not that heavy weight. I'm picking that team because I've seen it for so long and I just trust it in a way that there's been in the past. And so while I like Denver, I mean, you just asked me about the Clippers and I gave you every reason and talked myself into into like yeah i'm out but i'm probably in and then i then i look around and i'm like well why the hell wouldn't wouldn't i give them a shot just because while i like denver i mean if you made me bet denver the field i take the field oh well of course you take the yeah i mean it's the it's the only choice there because you still don't know, like, what's Phoenix

going to look like when they have everybody back again, too. Right. Which, you know, I know nobody likes to pick Phoenix for anything anymore, but it's not a ridiculous statement to say that Phoenix can be right there with everybody else when Booker is back. And hell, even getting Cam Johnson back has been a big plus. Okay. A couple of things here before we finish up.

Trade deadline. I was hoping to get a pissed off Roger Bell story about when you got traded, but you only got traded. You're probably more mad about getting waved a few times. You didn't have trade deadline anxiety. The two times you were traded, it was really early anyway, right? So we don't have anything. We don't have any good stories there?

No, I mean, my trade was really wonky in that I was just kind of ready to go to the game at the Staples. We were playing the Lakers, and I got a call right after my nap, 30 minutes to get on the bus, from a friend of mine, not in the NBA, who happened to be Jason Richardson's wife's good friend, saying, hey, you just got traded. I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, man, you just got traded to the Bobcats for Jay Rich and someone else. So it was weird, but it wasn't a trade deadline story. Okay. But you were with Phoenix when you grabbed Shaq. So what is that like having your team and then going, okay, things are about to be real different here? Yeah, that was a real tough one because we had been really good. Obviously, we didn't win. We felt like we had caught some breaks. And then it was going to be such a shift in styles in terms of the way we played and the his tail off to just become a part of what we were doing. But it became obvious to Shaq and even us as players that we were going to have to kind of change some of the stuff we did to get the best out of Shaq. And so while I think everyone in Phoenix that pulled the trade honestly thought that we needed to counter Tim Duncan and Shaq was an answer for that. I don't think, and maybe they should have known, but I don't think that they

understood exactly what that was going to do to A, our chemistry, or probably A, our style of play, and then B, our general chemistry as far as the way the ball moved around and stuff like that. And it wasn't by Shaq's fault at all. But when you have Shaq, you have him for a reason and you want to get the best out of Shaq and use him in a certain way. And that was just not exactly how we were playing basketball for the last few years. It wasn't, it wasn't what Mike D'Antoni did. Yeah. It's just, it's the opposite. I mean, you guys are running around, everybody's moving around and now all of a sudden you're going back to like, you know, it's 2007, but it's 2000, well, he's traded in 2008, I believe, February. So that's a big, that is a massive change, of course.

Yeah, and again, when Shaq got there, I remember Shaq coming in and telling everyone how excited he was to be here, how much he loved the style of play, how good it was going to be for everyone involved, and how he could help me get jump shots. When you make those trades around the deadline, that was one that you should have known better if you were just trying to add. When you're trying to add, what you did there was you shifted the whole direction of the franchise. And that's okay because maybe that's where it needed to go. But I don't know that as a team, we necessarily thought at that point that we had to shift direction. We thought we were a lot closer to it than apparently ownership and management did. And so it just wound up, we ran it out.

And then it was obvious that to get the best out of Shaq, which he still had tread left on the tire, you had to play a different kind of way. One of the things I think we miss, although it's great, the old combo guard thing was a dirty word for a long time. You're coming out, coming into the draft. It's like, well, we don't really know if he's a point or if he's a two. And now it's like,

that's what you have to be. You have to be a combo at that position. But you know, what I do miss about some of the, you know, again, maybe we just sound like old guys here. Some of the old school point guards,

it was an understanding of what the other four guys needed. And Nash epitomized that. I remember with Gary Payton even, like you look at Gary Payton, you try to argue about him and you look at the numbers, people think you're nuts. And you're like, yeah,

but GP knew like, hey, this guy needs a touch right now or the last three possessions sucked or we went too ISO. So let's change things here. Not saying that that part of it doesn't exist, but what was it about Nash, who now all of a sudden has to captain

a completely different kind of vessel here, knowing that, look, my job isn't necessarily hitting shots and getting assists or doing all these things. It's about making sure everybody feels like they're a part of this, which I think is part of, I think that's lost on that position now.

No, 100%. I mean, those, you you know that generation of pg and i i always say like the people ask me about steve and while he was brilliant and all the stuff he did on the court he could have shot 22 shots a game and like want to score like that's how good of a shooter i thought he was and he didn't so go ahead and he didn't what they did what they did is exactly what you said. Like not only, Hey Raj, Raj needs a touch,

but where does Raj want to touch? Like, where is this going to go to him? I got, I got Raj running the wing and he could look over to his left and know that I don't like to go up right from under the basket. So even though I'm open, he's not going to shovel to me,

shovel it to me late last minute. Cause I'm not going to do shit with it there. So if he didn't catch me early on the break, let him run all the way through, boom, we'll pivot out and we'll catch him over there in the corner. Just an understanding of not only when people need a touch or where people were, but what type of touch would make them the most successful. And it sounds really deep and it sounds like you'd have to be studying, but I think it just came organic to some of those dudes who played that position in a selfless kind of, you know, let me, let me do what this team needs to do to win games. Like my, I don't mean to make it, but my son's a quarterback. Like you and I talk about him all

the time. And like, I tell it that that position is a winning position. Like, what does your stat line look like? Who gives a shit? When, win a game, like win, win the football game and everything. And I think point guard was played like that in that generation. It doesn't matter. Like my job is to help everybody here be the best version of themselves. Um, and ultimately win a game. If it means I got to score 20, guess what Steve would do? He scored 20 in our beat, but there were a lot of instances where it was him just making sure the rest of us got what we needed to give our team the best chance to win. And when Shaq showed up, it was no different. It just changed the way we had to do it. So

as Steve watched the game and it started to slow down on us and we weren't as productive maybe from the perimeter and getting all those transition points because the game is slowing down, it just organically kind of morphed into like, hey, we're going to have to get him the ball. He's going to have to get it on the block because we need to supplement. We're not getting what we got in terms of pure pace. So then what do we do in the half court? And we got Shaq and Shaq is Shaq. There got to be some touches there and we're going to have to slow it down to make that work. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing is you still, especially with those bigs, man. I mean, hell, OKC used to run a post play for Kendrick Perkins at the beginning of every

game there for a while. Just do it. It was the strangest thing ever. Westbrook would be like, all right, I guess I could do this once. I'll give it to you. Anyway, Roger Bell, and Murdoch, the real ones out, uh,

twice a week here, part of the ringer network. Thanks, man. Yeah, you got it, brother. You want details?

Bye. I drive a Ferrari, three 55 cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am

liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice. Lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. What is up, Kyle? How's it? Doing well. Where'd you come up with how's it? Where was that? Some dude in college I think he went to Hawaii

And he was like, bro, I went to Hawaii This is what they say there And then he started saying it And now it's Howzit I don't know Yeah, Neil Everett Howzit, brother Drops a Howzit

Because he spent time in Hawaii So I knew I've never been So I don't know if that's cooler for me Or it's worse I'm not the guy who went to Hawaii And then came back And made everybody else hear it

I'm the guy who heard it From the guy who made us hear it. And now I just kind of adopted it. I don't know what's worse, but I'm going to just keep doing it if that's right with everyone. Does it make you feel like a Howley? See, I don't even know. I don't even have that much information. I don't even know what you mean by that.

Okay. We got a follow up here. Great. I do want to read this one. I don't even know what you mean by that. Huh? Okay. We got a follow-up here. Great. I do want to read this one. I think it's real. I was listening to the latest life advice and had to stop the episode immediately and write the following. Not sure you will use it, but hopefully you and Kyle get a good laugh out of it. I feel confident

in saying I have an old roommate situation that would be tough to top. I played Division III basketball and after my freshman year, I was set to live in the dorms with one of my teammates who was the same age as me. Some background on my school is that off-campus housing was not allowed unless you were a true commuter student living with parents at home. Wow. Straight.

Not even like junior year graduate thing. Yeah. Totally. Anyway, my teammate decides to transfer out during the summer, so now I'm stuck because all my older friends or all my other set, so I'm at the whim of whoever the Dean of Men decides to give me. Wait a it's my buddy Kyle. He's the Dean of Men. Is there an affiliation there? No, that's just what we call him. So I hear from a guy who's been given to me as a roommate during the summer, and he mentions that he had started college previously, but it

worked a couple of years. So I'm thinking, okay, this is someone who's probably 22 or 23, which is still going to be weird for me as a 19-year-old, but I can handle it. Well, moving day arrives, weird for me as a 19-year-old, but I can handle it. Well, move-in day arrives. I meet the guy and immediately realize he's not 22 or 23, but in fact, 32 years old, all caps. Let's go. That sucks, dude. Now, I had some questions that I'm sure you also have questions, maybe too many to even ask or to get answered, but I'll try. Obviously, my first question was, how was he allowed to live on campus? I never found out this answer. Secondly, why would he want to live on campus i never found out this answer secondly why would he want to live on campus he said he wanted the college experience hey i'm sorry but if you're 32 and you're like i wanted the college experience that's the biggest

social red flag of all time unless you just don't give a fuck. I got to say, I think my guy didn't really give a fuck either. He was rolling into places like, there's nothing wrong with this. He was rolling in like one of the dudes. That's the thing, though. As you got older, though, you're like, wait, that's weird. Yes.

Okay. But not then. But it didn't matter then. And now he's doing his own adult shit now, just like me, I guess. Or maybe further down the line. The Vermont thing for us was very weird. Like, if you weren't in the circle, you were like an alien. You know, it was just, there's no way.

There's no way. Dudes would have been making fun of this guy all the time, as he probably would have kicked our undeveloped asses. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean, if he was a badass, we probably wouldn't make fun of him too much to his face. time as he probably would have kicked our undeveloped asses right yeah well yeah i mean if he was a badass we probably wouldn't make fun of him too much to his face but we definitely make fun of him behind his back uh i think this is a major major social red flag i'm 32 and you want to live in the dorms um so i still can't get over how weird it is back to the email at the time he was closer to my mom's age than my own for perspective the bears won the super bowl while

i was in first grade and he he had already graduated high school. He was also a member of our cross-country team and was always wearing the spandex biker shorts in the room, which was super awkward. I also failed to mention that he wasn't a 32-year-old that looked young. No, he was already going bald and even had season tickets to a nearby professional sports franchise. The thing that really shocked me is he started dating a girl on campus who was 21 during the first semester on campus while I was getting shut out.

Good for that guy. Good for that guy. That's fucking weird. I will say she probably wasn't into man. No offense. I will say he was a nice guy. Never caused me any real issues, but still he was 32. That's an episode

That's great. I think that's real. I don't know. I think it's real too I mean my my guy had to go I think it was like Terms of his parole was he had to live in the dorms and I don't think he was allowed to be at bars But like, you know, so he had all these weird rules But like either way he was probably about the same age as this guy and uh, I don't know We didn't think it was weird our freshman year and as every year i've gone gone past that uh it got a little weird and weirder but now that i'm hearing it all out it's like hey that guy needs to live his life too and uh i don't know i'm not saying this guy was on like a prison or parole situation but uh you

know you never know it's just nice to be nice to people so wait the guy was on parole on top of everything else so i was hanging out and partying with you guys yeah well yeah he mean he had the sixth sense of like when shit was about to go down he would just get out of there and so we always knew like i mean he'd missed the cops by like a couple times uh in a couple situations and he just kind of knew he had like the sixth sense where he was like oh man i'm about to roll out and uh and then you know i don't know 20 minutes later the cops show up and it's like wow this guy just he's not going back he's never going back what happened to this guy he disappeared uh i got kicked out of school and then i came back and uh i don't know nobody knew what happened to him but he was in my in my dorm building not it was on a different floor but did he go to class

yeah yeah i think he had to get people to like sign like slips and stuff like to be like he is going to class it was like almost like a you know like a kid who got in trouble on the football team and you know he needs the teachers to sign the thing so he can play in the game like he was always having to get people to sign things so i don't know it was like a strange situation but good guy you guys you guys liked him he's your he was your guy yeah there was a couple dudes in the crew who was like what the fuck's going on and i was like hey what the fuck's going on? And I was like, hey, man, this is what it is. I don't know.

Like, you know, he comes around every once in a while. Wait, wait, can you explain to me, hey, this is what it is? Like, give me an example. It's fucking Doc. Like, they're like, is he really coming to this thing? I was like, hey, he said he wanted to come. I don't know. You know, sometimes he comes to the thing.

Sometimes he doesn't. I asked him to get me a 30 rack. He's going to do it. You know, we're just going to... If he wants to come, he's coming with us, basically. We can go to this thing separately if you want, but there's at least four of us that are coming and Doc's one of them.

I don't know. It was never like a combative thing. It was just like... I knew it was kind of strange, but I wasn't going to let it get all up in my head. I don't know. I want to ask you a serious question. Okay. Was it about Doc's friendship or the 30 rack? I like, I mean, I know this, that I like old guys. I think I got the other guys in on the, uh, on the 30 rack is like, Hey man, we could get whatever we got. And it was such a, such a process when you're, you know, I was 17. Like there was no way even a fake ID was

going to, was going to get me through, uh, at the, at the, the local beer cave or whatever. So, you know, I definitely needed somebody like that. And the, you know, the seniors were always like, yeah, maybe I was almost sort of like, you know, buying weed. It's like, maybe it'll happen. Maybe it won't. Maybe this guy will come back in two hours or maybe he won't. And this guy, doc was just fucking solid, man. He would, he would happen. And he was funny. and he had this cool accent sort of thing. He had stories. He had an accent? Where was he from? He's from Rochester. I don't know if he's from Rochester, but he

definitely spent time in Rochester, I can tell you that. And I don't know really where he was from outside of that, but he was just kind of this cool, smooth, older black dude, and I could listen to him talk all day. Did the ladies like Doc? They did not take to him. I were the age thing was kind of weird for them but uh I don't know you know some things are more important in life so I don't know I really hope

he's doing well wherever he is he really just disappeared after I when I came back so I think I was the one keeping that group in touch with him and then once I you know you were the glue yeah you pull that jenga piece and i don't know nobody everyone just kind of lost track of him not a big social media guy only had his phone number um he never texted me back and you know so i don't know if you're out there doc email address is life advice r.o.gmail.com yeah holy shit i don't even want to read any of that line that you just shared with us it was like ah they did not take well he didn't go to everything with us you know it was just like how old was he again i think he was he was early 30s that's what you think yeah yeah who knows who knows i don't know who knows

he would tell me prison stories and stuff he was just he had all these stories that i was what was his best prison story he was just like i mean he would play it down he was just sort of like man i wouldn't really get into no shit like i was just you know i don't know i can't remember everything but i just remember like i i mean his the way he went to jail was like amazing to me i almost felt like proud to know this guy i was like what happened so he like he sold weed to an undercover cop and then like ran out the back of the house was on the run for a little bit and uh i don't know it was just uh he was an interesting guy i'm glad to have known him i hope he's doing well the sentiments are the same yeah okay all right uh here we go here we go

viral baby 29 205 not really athletic but looked like a young brandon frazier all right a couple weeks ago my wife made a video that went viral on instagram it's a short video showing my wife's nightly routine of pampering our 19 month old daughter with a facial massage our daughter loves the massages and tends to make cute and funny facial expressions throughout the process, so my wife thought it was worth videoing. Sure enough, the video racked up over 50 million views within a few days.

The account went from only a few thousand followers to over 100,000 within a week. I'm not doing enough baby content. Dogs and babies. You got friends, don't you? Come on. Get those babies on there. I know. I even get a shout out from Selena Gomez and Viola Davis. What the fuck?

All right. I'll admit, like, when it was like, hey, I had this video that went viral, and it's just a guy emailing the show, I was like, all right, whatever. Because I just, again, I brought this up before, but I just always think it's funny when, like, somebody in the media will tweet out something. It's like, okay, apparently I have to address this, because, like, you guys won't stop talking about it. And you'll look at the tweet, and it's like okay i apparently i have to address this because like you guys won't stop talking about it and you'll look at the tweet it's like seven people said something dude right it didn't it didn't disrupt the the fucking orbit of of planets here uh so this is a big deal that's a huge that's a huge deal to gain a hundred thousand

followers in a week, 50 million. Those are major, major numbers. All right. So next thing you know, my wife and daughter were getting recognized by random people in public places. The video seemed to especially resonate with 25 to 35-year-old women in cosmetics and or self-care, which I'm fairly certain is not a key demographic for the Ryan Russillo podcast. You got the stats breakdown on that?

We don't know. We don't know that anymore. I'll admit there was an email from a few weeks ago that i was i found very frustrating we didn't um basically i'd said something on the podcast where when we started life advice one of the episodes i was like welcome into all the wives and girlfriends and it was a female listener felt it was very misogynistic comment and i was like okay i get her point but i would like to say on behalf of this podcast like i think i know how my audience breaks down and when i ever am stopped in the street for somebody to ask me like hey you know like the pod now it is always the wife or the

girlfriend was like i hated you for years i couldn't stand you you were on in the car you were on the background you were on tv forever and now i listen because the life advice thing so that's why i said it so if it felt like it was being dismissive the intent was simply to point out that this part of the podcast now has a different demographic which which plays off of the i don't know if you're into cosmetics i'm people know my past. Know I love cosmetics. Okay. So anyway, I just wanted to note so you have full context

of our audience and also so you don't think this is some self-promotional ploy. I don't think that it is. So my question is this. Where should we go from here? We would like to take advantage of the opportunity

and monetize this account somehow. Various brands have reached out wanting to send us free products, but I don't think receiving diapers and lotion is going to get me to be a stay-at-home dad anytime soon. I would agree. We've also been given the advice to start a podcast, but honestly our toddler doesn't have that much to say at this point.

He's smart. Okay. I'll also add that this is my first time my wife has made viral content before, though not quite to this extent, so she clearly has a knack for it, and this isn't just some one-time thing. I know it's really isn't your demographic. I figured your experience with sponsors and entertainment might be beneficial.

At least you can tell us what not to do. Thanks and excited to see you guys in Salt Lake. Okay. Did you watch the video? No, I didn't. I may have seen this baby anyway, though. I don't know. I got nervous whenever anybody sends some sort of link thing there before the person me through it. So I don't be like, actually, there anybody sends some sort of link thing before. Don't click me through it.

So I don't, I don't don't like be like, actually, there is no baby. You fuck, go fuck yourself. Now I have your banking information. All right.

You're right. Like, I'm not your, your guy for this one. Actually, it might be the worst person with a podcast to ask about what to do here. But what I can tell from this, if like,

you really want to make this a thing. And those are massive numbers, like real numbers. Okay. So this isn't like, oh, cool. A few people, some rando liked your thing and now your career is going to change. Okay, cool. It's a lot of work. People can make fun of it. But when you see the people that are really making a living doing this, it's borderline annoying to have to constantly going, okay, here's some new baby content. Like you might want to strike now. All right. Strike while it's hot. I think the massaging baby face, I've never seen that content before. That sounds hilarious, right? Babies make great faces. We all know this.

So I would, if this is what you want to do, I mean, sorry, man, you're going to have a fucking camera in your hand all the time now. All right. You are going to be worried about lighting. You're going to be doing stuff. And the next stupid thing, whether it's the Harlem shake or the tortilla slap, which you don't want to do to a baby and get child services involved. But you know what I'm saying? Like, I see the people on your baby's head. Come on. Yeah.

I see the people that do this for a living. And it's like, oh, now I have to do the fucking straw thing. And I personally would jump off a bridge before I'd have to do that for the rest of my life. But that's kind of the game. Right? That's the game.

So you, if this is what you want to do and what she wants to do and maybe it's hilarious, she might have to become the massaging baby. Podcast dude, I don't know what to say and what she wants to do. And maybe it's hilarious. She might have to become the massaging babies podcast, dude. I don't know what to say about that one. Come on. Like what's,

what's your opening segment? Who cares? What's right. What's, what's the, what's episode two about now? Maybe you're really dynamic. Maybe you,

right. Maybe you have an unbelievable back and forth and it's awesome and it's captivating. And maybe that's who you are. Who am I to dismiss anybody? Right. Sure. Odds are, I don't, I don't know what the first season is. It's into the abyss. There's right. There's 20 listeners and, uh, you'd be like, what the fuck did we do? So I would go and look at what all the other people do that do this and do it for a living. I personally don't find it super creative. Uh, I would not want to do it, but if you do want to do this, it is possible. And you guys have

this massive jump to go to 100,000 followers. You've got to keep hammering the content. You've got to keep up to date with all the different trends. Get that kid's face out there as much as possible. Maybe another massage follow-up, maybe cucumbers on the eyes. I have to duct tape them. I don't know if that's cool or not, but you get the point. It's like maybe play off of the pampered baby lane that I don't think I see a lot of out there. And trust me, I get baby videos sent to me

from people because they know I love them. They know I love them. All right. Kyle, do you have anything? Yeah, I mean, I'd say pampered pets is what I've seen more of, pampered babies. I don't know. I would just say you got to ask yourself like yeah this is cool it's a little

bit exciting i'm sure you could you know your family's probably impressed now uh i'm i would just ask do you have the stomach for this do you have the stomach for this and like as your kid you know turns into uh you know like a from a toddler into like a person with like thoughts and feelings and a face that's kind of recognizable. Like, are you all right with that? Are you all right with your kid going to a school and being like, hey, you're the you're the you're the kid that dressed up in the weird pumpkin outfit that we saw or something. You're the kid that whatever. Like, are you cool with that? Like and and are you going to be able to are you going to be able to make enough money to, like you said, be a stay at home dad? Or is this just going to be a

thing that you're flooding the internet with pictures of your baby and who's not really so much a baby if it's a toddler? If you're a toddler, you're working on five years old in the next couple of years anyway. Is this going to be worth it? Or is there just going to be a bunch of stuff of your kid out there that anybody can see? I'd wonder. If it's not going to be bringing in the money, you're just going to be bringing in the money, it's just going to be flooding the world with your kid. And I don't know if you're cool with that. I mean, I know it's exciting now,

so I would just think about it. Right. And then is your kid going to see you at like 12? You know, Britney Spears style. Right. Why do these adults keep coming up to me, man? I didn't sign up for this shit. I'm in middle school.

Gary Coleman do that? I forget. Never mind. I think Gary Coleman do that? I forget. Never mind. I think Gary Coleman was like 30 when he was on that show. So, uh, that's a bit of a dated reference. Although I don't know that Gary Coleman is dated.

I think everybody kind of is like aware of Gary Coleman. All right. Last one here. This one's a bummer. Uh, accidental nudes sent to family chat. Oh boy. We give my stats, uh, but nothing matters. My family has a large family chat, including all five siblings and their partners, as well as my 75 year old mother. So we're talking about 11 people here. I was scrolling through Twitter when I see a message in the chat from my mother pop up that says, quote, what is this exclamation point and why exclamation point? Uh oh.

Exclamation point. And why? Exclamation point. Uh-oh. I open up the chat. See, there are two photos. One is a point of view looking down at a vagina that was recently tended to. Okay.

Pretty graphic stuff here. I'm asking what's going on here. Then we got a rear-end shot. All right. I double-check what chat I'm in in i guess hoping it was a friend of mine sending uh pictures but nope it was my sister she had accidentally sent the photos to the family chat instead of some prospective suitor a chat instead of uh that's that's a tough mistake to make a group chat looks way different than a single

single message I think but I immediately yeah I immediately side chat all the other siblings warning not to open the chat well everyone did the chat has gone completely silent nobody had sent anything

other than my mother's confusion. Is this a situation where everyone just snickers behind her back, seeks therapy, or am I missing the opportunity for comedic gold by sending a photo of Dr. Evil's cat or something? She must be extremely embarrassed, but it feels like the scene from Hurt Locker

when the guy's got a bomb strapped to his chest and is begging for help, but the bomb tech has to bail out and watch him explode. Anyway, dry January is over as of right now, and I'll be drinking alone tonight. I guess I was a couple days old. Any input, at the very least, is probably a distraction. I think the real issue here is the mom. She's

just hanging out. She's getting no response. It's been a couple days. I don't know if you guys have responded to it by then. I think what you need to do is lie, first of all, and have, you should just say the phone got hacked or say whatever um you need you need to lie to the mom because the mom is going to want to believe this lie more than any other lie she's ever been told in her entire life yes right that's the payoff here is that you can get past the awkwardness by lying to her because she's going to buy into that lie

because it's so much better than the truth. So she's a willing audience. This is a hack comedian getting up there after Chappelle just went on and everybody's had 17 malt liquors. You can't. You're not going to lose. Although maybe post-Chapelle, I guess you can understand. Maybe a better warm-up that's not Chapelle at the very top of the game.

So I would have somebody just go, what the hell's going on with their phones? Are you getting this? And be like, oh, we must have gotten hacked. Must have gotten hacked. And then the sister could say something like, yeah, my email, whatever. And again, the mom's 75. She's not going to understand anything. my email,

whatever. And again, she's 70, the mom's 75. She's not going to understand any, just start talking about fucking bandwidth and, you know, DOS anonymous. Yeah.

So just make up a bunch of words that sound confusing and put it all together in a stew of confusion and lies. And then she's going to, she's going to ask for seconds, right? Get a new phone case. Say you got a new phone. Now, in a stew of confusion and lies and then she's going to ask for seconds. Get a new phone case, say you got a new phone. Now, as far as the sister part of it, it's kind of horrifying.

It just bums me out even thinking about it. But I guess you could process it by being like, hey, this is what a lot of people do and there you go. And whatever, not the end of the world, not a big deal. Probably saw each other naked when we were younger which is a little bit more normal than this um but yeah i would just i would lie to the mom in a very choreographed way with everybody involved and then there you go yeah i've just

got one question uh are you a fucking sicko i'm just doing a logan roy thing um ah that was good coming back coming back next month i think porn is a lifeboat ben solak didn't get that joke no he didn't that's okay that's what made it funny i think i don't know that was great i thought that was great uh yeah you should be able to get pull this off with a little bit of help from your siblings i think if if really what everyone ever everyone else kind of gets what happened already, but if you can save your mom from this and you from your mom knowing, then totally. Yeah, say maybe you lost a few bucks in your bank account. Like I said, maybe get a new phone case,

say you got a new phone or something, if she won't look too far into that and just be like, yeah, I don't know. I'm hoping they don't have my social security. It seems like they got some things, but I'm working with LifeLock and we're working through it. So maybe that's enough.

The one thing that I would follow up here on though that didn't make a ton of sense, he said the chat includes all five siblings and their partners. Does this mean the sister was actually single from this? Because then if he's saying the picture was sent to somebody she was talking with, why would she, I mean,

like is her boyfriend or husband on the chat as well sounds like that's that's what happened but when he says prospective suitor that makes me think that she's not tied down i don't know maybe i'm getting caught up in all this uh you know you could just say it was a prank right people like pranks it's just we were punking him um we had a weird phase i think i've told the story once before we had this weird prank phase where guys started sending sex to each other from our college oh wow it was awful guys were like stop doing this like sending yeah sending like a dirty sexual request to like your buddy and they'd be like oh sorry wrong wrong number and knowing you were doing it on purpose and then after a couple

i don't know how long it went on like because some guys thought it was really funny and some guys thought it really wasn't funny right then it was like guys were calling the other dude out being like don't you feel like the biggest weirdo ever typing this out and then hitting send to me like that's so was there like one guy left in on it like well there was one guy left there was one guy being like so we're definitely done with this like pretending he loved it and i think he knew more that it was so uncomfortable it was like that he didn't really like it but it was a really he's funny and he knew that it'd be kind of a good payoff to the whole thing to like a month later going we're done with this right and then you know but it was just after

after it happened guys like hey hey this isn't this is awful yeah i don't want to see your name come up followed by this sentence and then whatever and then a couple guys are married too right so it's like come on i don't i don't need i don't need this in case she looks at my phone and then she's like, what the hell did, what did Tim say? Where's the joke? Yeah. Where's the joke? Or wait, is Tim somebody else?

Is Tim. Right. Olivia. Right. And your mom's not going to get that. And if any of your mom saw that, they wouldn't get the joke if you explained it to him. So that's what. Well, no one's mom was involved in this.

Of course not. But that's what I'm saying. Like if anybody's mom had to be told this joke, they wouldn't get it. so that's what well no one's mom was involved in this of course not but that's what i'm saying like if anybody's mom had to be told this joke they wouldn't get it so that's what i mean it's like you can't say it's a joke that's fine okay all right highlight of the pod the ladies didn't take the duck they can't it's it's the best it's one of the best things you've ever said, which is saying something because you've been on a heater for about a year. I laughed so hard when you said that that I had to cover myself up.

You kind of knew. I mean, you didn't really even need to ask, but yeah, it's okay. Yeah, but your pause and then wording of it was perfect. I want to see the season one Kyle script now after that line. Yeah, man. That's what I'm trying to say.

That's what I'm saying. That's what dudes have been saying. All right. Thanks to Kyle Crichton as always. The Ryan Russillo Podcast. Please subscribe. Bring your Spotify. Outro Music you