The Ryen Russillo Podcast - The Lamar Jackson Decision With Former NFL GM Scott Pioli. Plus, Concerns About the Lack of Interest in Jackson With the NFLPA’s George Atallah.

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

Russillo shares his thoughts on Kevin Durant's return to the Suns, their victory over the Timberwolves, a tightening Western Conference, and more (0:32). Then Ryen talks with Scott Pioli of NFL Network and CBS about teams gathering info on Lamar Jackson, how trading for a franchise-tagged player differs from a traditional trade, how teams evaluate players, stories from his time in NFL front offices, the Patriots' recent draft struggles, and more (11:13). Next, Ryen is joined by NFLPA assistant executive director of external affairs, George Atallah, to discuss the player side of the Lamar Jackson situation, the curious lack of interest from NFL teams, the NFLPA's relationship with the franchise tag, and more (45:20). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:06:44). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Scott Pioli and George Atallah Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

two different perspectives on lamar jackson story scott pioli on the front office perspective and george atala from the nflpa what is going on is that nasty word among owners uh a little open on durant now playing for the Suns. Home debut last night and why I'm picking him to win the West. And life advice. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything?

Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap? Definitely doable. Sunshine? That's no. A bottle of wine? Yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes.

Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's not NBA Tales from the Couch. We already gave you that on Tuesday. We have a lot of NFL stuff we're doing.

Pioli, as we already mentioned, and Natala in the intro here. But I just wanted to talk about Durant's return to Phoenix. Phoenix gets a win last night against Minnesota, 107-100. This was a game. It really was a game there for the most part. He was not great, which spit in the face of my Durant looks like first team all NBA every time he comes back from an injury. His cardio looked fine.

He played 29 minutes. He had 16 points. He was 5 at 18. And I'm going to go over a couple of the last few things they did in this game. Whatever. I mean, Durant, I'm not worried about him now all of a sudden not being a good shooter. He couldn't make any shots last night. I'm sure it was maybe jitters and the home debut or whatever.

But the whole thing has been really weird, which speaks to the West. We'll kind of get to that as well here. Carl Anthony Towns has been back. Man, he looks huge. He looks huge. If I were a hacky sports writer, would I say Carl Anthony Pounds? No, I wouldn't do that. But he's getting 20 a game and he's making

all of his threes. He's 50% from threes in the first three games back, man. 17 shots a game. He's at 31 minutes a game, the first three games back, man. 17 shots a game. He's at 31 minutes a game. So Towns is just back there in it, running, getting in shape out there. But you can kind of see the formation of the Timberwolves, who I spent a lot of time on Tuesday, of Towns, Gobert, Edwards, who was sick last night, and a couple other guys were sick as well. Conley, Noel, McLaughlin, McDaniels. You're like, all right, I kind of see it.

It's not my favorite thing of all time, but it's so weird that we're like two weeks to go and there's all of these teams with the rotations being like, does this group finally have all of their guys together and then what's it going to look like? And we're going to be picking playoff series and I feel like not only does it feel closer in the West, like it's just, there's not going to be a lot to go on.

Like, oh, they split the series or they won the season series 3-1. Be like, look at who played and who didn't. It may not mean anything with some of these playoff matchups. So at the end of the game, Durant comes back in at 321. It's going to be Aiton. It's going to be Durant. It's going to be Booker. It's going to be Chris Paul. I know weeks and weeks ago when the trade was actually made, I was like, the curious thing will be kind of who they use with the fifth guy, but it's going to be a Kogi. I don't really think they would do something else unless they just felt great about Terrence Ross's shooting in a matchup and that

they weren't giving up too much defensively with him. I mean, TJ Warren, we know can score. He's been better recently, but at the same time, like, you know, TJ's, if he's out there as the fifth option, which is what he would be offensively, is it worth it to have him out there? And that's why I think a Kogi's defense makes the most sense because if you're looking at what Minnesota wanted to do defensively like Durant wasn't really much of an option to close this game and Booker only had like one shot and then there was a miss a little bit later so I think he only had three total shots in the fourth quarter so if you were looking for like the Booker takeover it didn't happen it was the Chris Paul Aiton deal again

now Chris Paul when he sees Gobert dropping then Chris Paul's more locked in. And I'm telling you, the thing that's been most frustrating about Chris Paul not looking good certain nights has been, wait, you're going to be hesitant about your offense? He's always been somebody of the screen versus somebody dropping as a center, specifically last night with Gobert. When he goes into that knowing what he wants to do, he's just a much better shooter. There's been too many times recently where it's like, did you not know what you wanted to do? In the last three minutes of this game last night, he knew exactly what he wanted to do every single time. He was orchestrating all of it, and he was figuring things out.

And it's why I thought it was really interesting. There was a screen that Okoge sent for Paul, and then they got it back to akogi who took a mid-range you know two which is what they all are uh and he missed it and you're like okay wait you have booker out there you have eight and you have durant and akogi sent the screen and then he becomes the option is to stay with chris paul like we will not see that again. And guess what? We didn't, we didn't see it,

but it was a lot of eight and stuff, which is, you know, going to be good. Sometimes touch is incredible moves really well. And then other times he's going to fumble the basketball and then you're going to go the other way. And then Kyle Anderson got tied up,

lost the ball. Then they went back the other way. Chris Paul missed the layup because he had Anthony Edwards tracking him down. So that's kind of how they closed it by Chris Paul orchestrating things. But Durant wasn't making shots. Booker didn't even take a ton of them. Aiton's fumbling things away. And this was actually a good basketball game.

And it was competitive. But it was kind of a nice little sign there from Phoenix. The rest of the way, if you wake up today, Phoenix is your 4C. They have six games to go. How about this stretch? Denver at OKC, San Antonio, Denver again at the Lakers, and then against the Clippers. This is going around on social media right now.

I have to double-check it, but it doesn't mean I'm not going to share it right now. Apparently, the largest free-throw differential in the season right now is the Lakers at 411 more free throw attempts than their opponents. Number two on that list, the Sacramento Kings. Kings are always getting calls. They're plus 193. Yes, you heard that right. The gap between the Lakers and the Kings. Rudy, can you actually double check this just to make sure I'm not sharing false information? We don't like that. It shows a differential of,

that would be 221, no, 219. 219 more free throws. But they didn't get that call after LeBron traveled in Boston. So that's a tough stretch, but it's actually only the ninth toughest remaining strength to schedule, which is kind of shocking.

New Orleans is number one. Look at what Philly has to do. Milwaukee, Boston, the Nets, Miami, Atlanta, Toronto, all playoff teams. But I know I should wait. I know I should wait longer. I know I should wait on all these teams, all these teams in the West, but I'm just picking the Suns to win the West. I don't care.

I know I shouldn't do it. I'm doing it though. And so is FanDuel. They're plus 240. Denver's plus 280. Golden State's plus 480. Memphis is plus 600. The Clippers, who were the five seed,

nice win in Memphis last night. Westbrook went off. I don't know if he ended up missing any threes. And then the Lakers. So those are your top six. Who's missing from that? Sacramento, plus 2,000, then Dallas, then Minnesota, New Orleans, on and on and on.

Portland, you could still get odds on. That would seem like maybe not the best move to win the Western Conference. So, yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm going to go ahead and pick it. And then as I was saying that, I was like, well, everybody's going to think you're just doing this because of Chris Paul. I was like, no, I just think I'm going to do it because I'm not sure about any of those other teams.

If there was some other team for six months that had every guy playing 70-plus games and they were really good and won almost 60 games and they didn't have any massive flaw, I would go ahead and maybe pick that team. But I don't think that team necessarily exists despite Denver kind of going not wire to wire, but feeling wire to wire the last, the last three months of the season here. But Durant did a sit down with Sean Shrani on the athletic.

It came out this morning and there's a bunch of different topics that were covered. And the reason I'm even bringing this up, because I was thinking about Durant was like, I guess I am still rooting for Durant, right? I root for Durant. I like him.

I think he's more real than a lot of dudes. Doesn't mean there aren't things that he said or have done where I'm like, what are you doing? But when I thought about the pick for Durant to come out, and if you were in the NBA finals, how many people would be rooting for him? Now, in general, how many people root for Durant? It's all based on is he in your team's way, right? So there's a lot of you listening to this and you're like, I'm not rooting for that guy, right? And that makes sense. You're not going to root for some other guy on another team.

Maybe you're going to screw with your team's plans and your own happiness. Very standard stuff there. But if you were neutral about this or your team were out of it, would people be looking at Durant being like, hey, I'd like to see him get a ring that's like a post-Golden State ring? And would that feel like it solidifies him a little bit more? Because he's been asked about his thoughts on things. And one quote here about the Warriors I thought was interesting. Here's Durant. Once I left to go to the Warriors in 16, I figured any logical thing when it comes to me

is out of the window. When it comes to me, people are not going to think in a logical way or simply look at what I've done and say, that's it. They got to add a narrative to it. They got to push something to discredit me. Once I left to go to the Warriors, it's been gymnastics on how to discredit me every step of the way. It's like, damn, that's not even fun no more, like engaging with people because y'all aren't even being truthful. You move the goalpost every time you expect the most out of me. And if I don't reach it, I'm a failure. It's like, what's the problem? Some of that I get and some of it I just don't. And it's really simple. You're going to have to pay some sort of public tax when you went to the Warriors. And in the moment, I was always okay

with it because I understood that he really didn't want to play with Westbrook anymore, which is what I would think any great player would be like, I don't want to do this. I was more okay with it then where retroactively like i kind of get it from everybody i mean imagine if yokich janice and say luca all decided to have their contracts expire in the same year two years from now and then they all just played together if that happened it'd be really interesting i would watch it we would talk about it a lot. And if they want a couple rings, we would look at them differently than Giannis' ring by himself or Jokic getting a ring

right now or Luka figuring out how to get a ring in Dallas. I mean, it's just what it is, man. That's what it is. This isn't that complicated. It's not about goalposts or narratives or all this stuff. Some of the shit Durant deals with is bullshit and isn't fair and is dismissive. But we all kind of lean towards, when I was talking about Lillard not that long ago, like we put you in the tiers and then we rank you inside of tiers because it's like, what do you want to hear me do?

Box score plus minus for an hour? Nobody wants to fucking listen to that. So that's the part where I think it's hard for him to hear it. And he's out there looking like the best player in the world, winning a couple championships, probably should have had one more with the whole deal. But then when we stack those up against other people, that's just the tax that he has to pay with that decision.

And look, I fucking defended him. And I sometimes wonder if I was wrong about that. So look, man, it's pretty simple. I'll be rooting for them, even though I disagree with them at times. And I also think it's the right basketball pick if they're healthy. I'm excited about this. We have Scott Pioli, decades in the NFL and now an NFL Network Analyst. And he's going to be part of the draft coverage

coming up late April, April 27th to the 29th. Thanks for doing this. How's it going? It's going great. Thanks for having me, Ryan. Really appreciate it. This is fun. This is our first time getting to do this, man.

I know. It is. I know there's some ties there, the Nantucket stuff, Central Connecticut. We always have a lot of respect for those guys on this podcast because we know the history. And always have a lot of respect for those guys on this podcast because we know the history and after spending a bunch of years in Hartford myself.

Obviously, I want to touch on your expertise as running a team, making those personnel decisions, all that stuff. A little draft as well. Obviously, the headline part of this is Lamar. Can I ask it two different ways? Can I start this way? If you're another team and you need a quarterback,

how do you think you and the organization would be talking about, like what were the conversations around being his potential availability? First of all, if you're another team and you have a needed quarterback and there's a quarterback available, you can't make assumptions of what the price is going to be, what the cost is going to be. You need to do your work and go find out. So if you're, you know, and assumptions of what the price is going to be, what the cost is going to be. You need to do your work and go find out. I've been with the team and been a part of meeting quarterbacks. You have an obligation to everybody in the building, everyone outside the building,

anyone that's associated with your club to go and do the work. You need to do the work. The fact that he's out there and available, you go find out what the cost is going to be, what the price is going to be. You have to see what the return on the investment is going to be too. Not just the contract part, but the compensation that you have to give up because he is

a tag player. To me, it's simple. If you need and it's available, go find out what you can find out. Do you think teams kind of historically hate dealing with the tag compensation as opposed to the straight trade? I mean, it doesn't happen all that often. And usually it also means the team that's tagged can be like, we can just go ahead and match this anyway. So it feels like there's a little hesitation because it's not just a straightforward market for market deal.

No, you're right, Ryan. Because even though a lot of people don't go after tagged players, it's different, but it's similar in terms of going after restricted free agents. And when I was with the Patriots and actually with the Chiefs, during my career, there's a number of times that we went after restricted free agents. And again, you have to think about the compensation. The compensation is what the compensation is,

but then you have to get into the negotiation. You have to negotiate a contract, knowing all full that the other team that has his, has the tag or has his rights in the case of restricted free agency, that you could do all the negotiating and they can turn around and match it if they want. And then you end up having had done all the work and created a contract that someone else does and you end up without the player. And we had it work out both ways.

We had in the case of Wes Welker where we did all the work and then we were able to get it done. And then we've had other plays that we were able to get, and then we had to go the other way. But I only bring that up because, yeah, it creates a lot of extra work. But like anything in life, in any industry, I mean, your job, every job, if you're afraid of work, then you need to be doing something else, right? Do the that do the work and then you, you hope good things happen. Is there a lot of winners curse in the NFL where you're like, well, wait, if this guy is what we think he is, why is he even in this situation in the first place?

Like why didn't he just get the deal done, extend them, make them part of the franchise. And I'm not even talking specifically to Lamar, but you could apply the same principles to it, where you have to question yourself in those conversations being like, why is he available if our evaluation is so much higher than maybe the team's? Yeah, I think you do that sometimes. You always have to stop and pause, but you don't always know the other dynamics, right? You don't know why it's not working out. You know, I'm not saying this is a case, but it could be, the case could be that the player's just not happy there and wants to change, whether it's, you know, something about the culture, something about the coach, something about teammates where they just want to be doing

something else. You know, it's different again, but similar, Ryan, to when you're going through the draft, you know, you know, the funniest example similar, Ryan, to when you're going through the draft. You know, the funniest example, I guess, is Tom Brady going back. We started talking about Brady in the fourth round, and we're like, it's the fifth round. We're looking around. This guy's sitting up there still, and we don't have a need at the position. And we're like, okay, what's wrong with this guy? I mean, that's the obvious example.

Then by the time we get to the sixth round, we're like, okay, what is wrong with this guy? I'll never forget during that conversation, Bucko Kilroy, one of my mentors and a great NFL general manager, as we were getting ready to do it, Bucko had this funny sense of humor and he just started chugging. And I'm like, ho, ho, ho, someone better call him first

to make sure he's not dead. And I tell the story, but there's, you know, there's a lot of times where, you know, beauty's in the eye of the beholder. And sometimes you think that a player is more valuable in your system and is a better fit in your system than another team does it. But then sometimes you've got players, right? I know I've been in the situation too, where we've had a player that we had a certain value on. And there were other teams that saw that player as, to them as much greater value and they went and did it. So yeah, it's an exercise that you have to go through, but that's, I'm a big process person, Ryan. So I love processes like that,

that make you slam on the brakes and maybe do extra homework and think. It's the only time in my life I've ever actually liked extra homework. Can we, because I can't get enough Brady stories, all right? You know, I was a huge Pats fan back in the day. Really? It was incredible. Oh, yeah. Being from

the vineyard, yeah. And so, you know, it plays out and you're like, wait, is this really happening? And then all the draft stories have been told. What is it like in the room when you're watching guys go off the board and you're like, ah, we'll go with Jeff Marriott guard out of Missouri. And then the sixth round, you're like, you know what? Big time boiler maker at Purdue,ue baby so do you remember one specific

time when if you're telling us that brady's name starts popping up the fourth being like why is he still here and then you're taking other guys that nobody will remember except their relatives give gift is there one time where you're like nah we'll we'll take this guy instead. Yeah, it's funny you say that because, Ryan, I keep this. I got to reach over. I know this is a podcast, but I'm going to put this up here for you. I keep this on my desk all the time. That's a rookie card, a Brady rookie card. You see the guy in the upper part?

That's Dave Stachelski, tight end from Boise State that we drafted ahead of Tommy. And that's Tommy down in the lower part. And I've always kept that because, you know, when we started having success, you know, it's human nature to think that you're smarter than you are or to think that you're better than you are. And really, none of us were that smart in that draft room. I mean, you know, it's all relative.

It's sometimes there's good fortune. But, you know, to answer that, to, to answer that question. Um, here's, what's interesting. You know, when we took that team over, we were, we had a roster with only 41 players, 53 men roster. We had only 41 players, either under contract or had the rights to, we were 10 and a half million dollars over the cap. And I don't know, remember what the cap number was, but it was still double digits back then. And we were $10.5 million over the cap. And we had to do some of the bad restructuring, borrow towards the future. A couple of guys on Drew, and I think Lawyer and Ty maybe,

who had just done recent contracts, just to get under the cap. By the time we did all that shuffling around, we were sitting here with 39 players under contract and just under the cap. By the time we did all that shuffling around, we were sitting here with 39 players under contract and just under the cap. So now we not only have to build a 53-man roster, we have to have a training camp roster. I can't remember if it was 80 or 85 at the time. And there's just no cap room. But the other thing was with 39 players, Ryan, we could not even, we couldn't line up the next day. You know, what we did have is we had three quarterbacks. We had Drew, we had John Freeze, and we had Michael Bishop. So in order for us to just feel the team and play a game, we had to do more based on need than best player, if that makes sense.

And a lot of people say, oh, is it best player? Is it need? To me, there's always some sort of confluence of the two. And in that situation, again, we started talking about Brady. Brady's name came up because he was amongst this group of players that we saw as viable for us, guys that we wanted. And we kept saying, well, you know, we don't need a quarterback, but we need this tight end, right? Or we need a, I think it was Antoine Harris was drafted before him too.

You know, and here's a guy who we thought was going to come in, be a really good special teams player, be able to play the nickel corner, play the slot, be inside. Really, really smart guy. Had played both corner and safety. We saw him as a good, versatile guy. We needed that guy just from a number and body's standpoint. Jeff Marriott fit the mold of the kind of guy that we wanted to have

and build around who was big, strong, tough, smart. And so we kept on, you know, we would talk about Brady, but it wasn't just Brady. We talked about this group of guys and then that group kept getting small because we would either take one or other teams would pick them and as it went on and on we're saying to ourselves okay you know do we feel like we did enough work on brady and dick rabine who was our quarterbacks coach at the time had gone out worked him out seen him i had seen him play against Syracuse.

It was the year before. He was a guy we felt good about. And those are the conversations that go on. And again, you have to, if you're doing it, eventually you hope that you're in a situation where you can say, damn, these torpedoes, we're just taking best player available. That's it. But when you're a team in need, you've got to take care of needs too i hope that makes sense you know what at one point i wasn't sure if it was going to but now it makes all the sense because like now i get it it was a roster thing of like

we just need to start like how many guards do we have we don't have enough all right let's take a guard we don't need there's another safety let's make sure we get another tight end and so you have 22 starters right it also means you weren't in love with Brady, but then you're like, okay, we, we have to do this at this point, but it actually makes, it's a great answer with a lot of depth. And now it's another part of the story that I didn't know. But here's the, here's the interesting part. Once we got that dude on campus, we were looking around saying, Holy smoke.

You know, we were like, okay, we might have something here. So Ryan, we went into that 2000 season. We kept four quarterbacks on our 53-man roster. There's this whole argument about how many people you want. But we kept all four of those quarterbacks. And there was even a point in time where because of salary cap issues and because we were just trying to – we were only going to keep on our roster guys that were buying in at a point in time we actually only had 51 out of 53 players on our active roster

true story we didn't have a full practice squad either but we kept four quarterbacks so we knew we had something that we thought we could develop okay this is a perfect because i i do have another lamar thing i'll get to later because i want want to like the current team, you know, not how you would handle, but this is good because I'll have GMs on and I've talked about this a bit in the past and you know, I'm more of a basketball person obviously, but like, I was always fascinated with the idea of like, what did you see that the rest of us couldn't see? Like if you do this for a living, and then I think I have to do in this 20 years, it's like, I think it's just the hours. Either you start to figure it out or you never figure it out. For football, we go back to the old linebackers.

We want those guys. Now the game has moved away from them where you don't want these huge middle linebackers. You don't want Ted Johnson and Pepper Johnson anymore. Right. When I think of Ted, I think about the neck brace. I think of all of this stuff and it's like, I don't know, man, like somebody is going to get him against the slot receiver. And it, and it just, it's not, I mean, whenever anybody talks about like, right. Like we used to be obsessed and

talk radio in Boston, are they running a three, four, are they running a four, three? Like who cares? Like, it doesn't matter. Base is not it like it doesn't none of that matters because everybody's throwing so now when you see the game change and maybe your own experiences of being a person in the room how has your evaluating process evolved not specific to like just football but like things you think you prioritize now that you didn't earlier on in your career man we need to have a class here ryan this is great i. I love it. This is the kind of stuff that gets me excited because here's talking about the evaluation process. Here's what hasn't changed. When we built our scouting manual, you have these separations of how you're evaluating

players. You have what you call major factors, critical factors, and position skills. Just think of three silos. Then within each of them, you have things that you evaluate that are going to be important, but they have a different level of prioritization, for lack of a better term. But within major factors, those are things that you can, they are uncompromised. You can't compromise them. And you want to make sure it's size, it's speed, it's athletic ability, it's makeup, it's intelligence. It's a small list of things that you evaluate on every single player, regardless of what their position is, because that is the stuff that this is the kind of team, the identity that you want your team. Then you get into critical factors. And again,

the other two silos remaining are critical factors and position skills. Those things become more positional specific for each individual position. So the critical factors, again, position. So the critical factors, again, are the most prioritized skills that a player needs at their position. So major factors, critical factors, position skills. The things that never change over time to answer the question, I just wanted to give you that don't change are your critical factors. Those are the things that you can compromise on, or if you compromise on, you better have a darn good reason why you're going to compromise on the size of a player. There better be something special about them. When you get into the critical factors, then you're talking about different things for, say, it's offensive linemen. Critical factors

are going to be flexibility, hand use, toughness, things like that. Well, actually, toughness would be a critical factor because we always talked about we were going to be big, strong, fast, tough, and smart. So there's certain things that you can't compromise on. But as the game has evolved, you do have to react and respond. And Bill's a perfect example. You know, when we got there in 2000, it was all two gap up front. The game started to evolve. There were more multiple receiver sets. There was more, again, position flexibility that was going to be required by the defensive linemen up front. The game was being, the space of the game was increasing and increasing. And when you had Ted Washington on the field and Peyton Manning was going to go to hurry up offense,

you have to build your roster into what your philosophy is and how the game is being played. Again, I hope I didn't speak too fast and try to throw too much in there, but there's certain core tenets that you need to keep, Ryan. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because it's almost like you're providing yourself with your own rules. And then you have to question yourself when you're breaking them. Exactly right. And then you have a conversation because that's why you hear people use the word process and kind of joke about it.

No, you have a process. You have principles. You have values. And does that mean that you're never going to deviate? No, that doesn't mean you're never going to deviate. But when you do, have a reason. Because when you go back, you have to self-evaluate everything. And when you make mistakes, you go back and say,

we made a mistake on this guy. What's the reason? Well, did he fit these criteria? Did he fit these criteria? Did he not fit these criteria? And I got to tell you, most of the time when we failed in high rounds on players throughout my career, because not only in New England and also in Kansas City and even in my time in Atlanta as the assistant GM, it was when we took tools over makeup. And what I mean by that, tools are physical

skills, heights, you know, height, weight, speed, quickness, all the physical stuff. And we would get seduced by the tools and not pay enough attention to the makeup of the individual and whether or not they were going to fit into our culture. And again, we're not going to mention any names, but Ryan, I know you, you know, you talk, you think about the first three rounds. I'm sure you can figure a lot of that out. Yeah. When I would work with Herm Edwards, you know, it was always kind of interesting. Like when I'd ask him like, Hey,

how would you deal with this? And this was like off the air stuff. And then, you know, he'd mentioned this on the air. So I don't feel like I'm sharing anything that's, that's too specific. And he would tell you, but you know, when I would say, well, like when you have 53 guys and you're trying to figure out how to put the team together, how often would you go, all right, I'll take that guy.

I know I'm worried about him. I'm worried about a phone call, but I'll take him. And he goes, and Herm's way would be like, I can take four. You can take four of them. I don't want zero. I don't want five, but I can handle four and four and four. And this is, this is different because now we're kind of getting into some other

stuff, but it kind of speaks back to your tenants of, I have a rule. And if I deviate from the rule, I have to remind myself that I'm deviating from the rule because you have the rule set up based on your own track record and what has or hasn't worked. And here's the other thing. You're absolutely right, Ryan. And you can make exceptions. But when you make exceptions, particularly when it comes to the makeup of an individual, which normally has to do with maturity and some of the bad decision making that they've made, is your culture, meaning your locker room and the people around them, strong enough

that if you immerse that player in there, that there's a really good chance that all the other people that you've put around them aren't going to let them deviate or become destructive. And you hope you can do that, but again, you can't do it with too many people. You just hope that the culture consumes them until they mature enough to understand, okay, maybe I can do some of these things, but I got to stay on the rails as well. Yeah, and that's what I think that you and Bill really, I don't know if created is the right word, but established.

You established, I believe in modern sports, the ultimate template of like, this is how it's done here. And if you were someone coming from the outside, and then I would talk to some guys that maybe ended up playing there. And it was just like, yeah, we don't do that here this is how I feel about the situation. There's no point. There's no point. And you can say you want to create it, but you have to have the people, the makeup. You got to have the success too, where I'm deferring to you for a reason. But you did create that where it almost felt like, man, when they get guys in a Foxborough, it's almost like they go through this seminar where they become a different person. Here's what I want to say about that though they were right for us you know and we had it figured out for ourselves because i think sometimes when when that's talked about the narrative becomes unintentionally disrespectful to other people what i think that we did was we were so willing bill and i and and and charlie Ernie, and there were a number of people, you know, we're not, we can be pains in the butt and we're not, you know, certain things were

flexible. Some things were inflexible and it's not easy. And I don't say that, you know, in a tough guy way. I just mean, you know, we're a pain in the butt sometimes. We're a lot. And we had to find people that could put up with us and would want to thrive on it. And I say that, and I'm only half kidding, because, you know, it wasn't for everybody. And just because we weren't for everybody, that didn't mean those players that weren't for our program, weren't good people. What you have to do with all these things we've just been talking about ryan what you have to do is get the right people for you for your leadership style for your when i say for you for bill you know and the head coach who's and you're right and you know you mentioned guys bruski wasn't going to put up with stuff i mean tommy wasn't going to put up with stuff right there's a reason that guys like deon branch and david patton we got his we drafted but

we brought him as a young player and david gibbons that those guys thrived under tommy that's because those guys were going out as early if not earlier than tommy and staying as late or later than tommy and those guys would, you know, Tom had these relationships with all of these guys. That's how they developed. Then there were other guys who maybe, you know, and this is not a criticism, who had more tools than those guys. And we drafted a hire that just, that they weren't down like that. You know, they didn't want to do that stuff with Tommy. And then, you know, Tommy would give you chances, give you a chance, give you a chance. And then finally he said, okay, I'm done with Tommy. And then, you know, Tommy would give you chances, give you chances, give you chances. And finally he said, okay, I'm done with you. I'm working with the guys. And,

and that doesn't make those people bad people. It just, that was not the right situation or circumstance for them to develop it. Yeah. And you can always tell if you watch all the games, you're like, oh, Brady's done with this guy. He doesn't trust him anymore. Like he's out there running around. They gave him a helmet, but he's. This game is trust. You know,

Ryan, you were starting to say something else. It's about trust. Because you forget on each side of the ball where football is very unique. It's these 11 interdependent relationships where you have to have trust and be trusted. And that's why it's not always, you know, people love to joke about this saying that I have that I didn't see. And that's why it's not always, you know, people love to joke about

this saying that I have that I didn't see. And not even my saying, I stole from Parcells is it's not the best 53, it's the right 53. And there has to be, you have to pay attention to the chemistry experiment component too. We're having a great time here. I feel like I might, I think you're going to hate this question, but I'm going to ask it. Oh, I think it might be freezing up again, Ryan. I'm not sure.

Why do you think the Pats have struggled so much recently in the draft? I think, I don't know. As a team or in the draft, I would say the draft record there's, there's been multiple years and really the standard is been so high that I think when you go back and you go, what's,

what's happening here? Like, why, why is it? I just feel like there was a lot of lean years. You know, here's what I'll say is I don't know the answer because I haven't been there.

Right. And I don't have that much intimate knowledge. I was there a long time ago. It's over a decade I'm gone. There's things that I don't know. But I'll say people always talk about the draft or they talk about free agency. I always refer to it as overall player acquisition. When you bring new players into your team, you don't just pour water on them. Some are ready. Some are good to go.

With the draft, sometimes it's not only selecting the right players. What I was just talking about, Ryan, there's player development and how players develop and who's helping to develop them. And you can't say, well, the coaches aren't developing. Well, I'll tell you this. During our most successful years, yes, the coaches had a huge input into developing players, but that entire program is developing people. You know, I go back to a guy like Anthony Pleasant, and this is going to land somewhere because you talk about the success of a guy like Vince Wiltwork or a guy like, you know, people don't remember Ty Warren.

You do. But he was a hell of a player for a long time for us and an important player, first-round pick. You talk about guys like Jarvis Green, who, you know, was a terrific player. You know, part of them developing and becoming good players and being good draft picks wasn't just the pick. It was guys like Bobby Hamilton and Anthony Pleasant who were long-toothed guys.

And when they entered the program, we had a locker room full of what I call, not through, we had enough guys in the locker room, Ryan, that were selfless leaders. And when we talk about leadership, one of the things that I always used to talk about, and I still talk about, I don't hear a lot of people talk about, is finding selfless leaders. The guys like Anthony Pleasant and Bobby Hamilton who see Richard Seymour come into the locker room and say, you know what? If you're better, I'm better. My tides are going to raise all boats. And if I help you become a really good player, that's part of my lasting legacy. And I don't mean to digress. I'm bringing that point up because it's not just drafting well,

Ryan. It's about drafting a good player, drafting the right player, and making sure that there's a system in place. And I really think part of what's happened in New England over the years is there's been so many people that have left. Players, coaches, people that understand, you know, when you have that much change in your organization, it's really tough to have a consistent player development, developmental program that, that helps your draft. And, and that's not skirting the question in any way. I just think that people just say, ah, it's a sucky draft. Why?

Again, let's go back to the why. Let's go back to the why let's go back to the process always go back to the process and figure out why people say oh you had some really good draft picks well thank you but you know there were also some really good people around to help guys develop does that make sense it does because i i think the ty warren example is i mean granted this is a dude that was, you know, he was the first half of the first round. I mean, he was just outside of the top 10, I think. He was 13, number 13. So we traded up. We traded up together. And if you guys are trading up for somebody, you know, that's another part of it. And then he comes in. I don't, I think the problem is too, is he trades up. He's coming from from this big program he physically checks every single box and it wasn't right away for him so then it's like uh-oh what what happened and then he turns into one of the most versatile defensive linemen for multiple

years he did he did everything yeah all that stuff and remember richard seymour wasn't that good his first year and a half now but Look, I agree with you. I remember because he was the guy that everybody was in love with. And we're like, well, it always felt like between you and Belichick, there's certain positions. If they fell in love with this guy at this position, then it's a lock. And defensive linemen felt like, okay, if they're taking a D lineman. And then Seymour turns out to have one of the greatest careers

in the franchise's history. Who do they want us to take that year? Braylon Edwards, I think was the, is that who it was that year? I'm trying to remember. I think he was six. He's not a pass rusher. Oh my gosh. I know that was the other thing too. It's like, wait, what? And then, you know, the Wilfork one was one of my favorites because I got to interview him right after I was in Foxborough doing a live radio show. I missed my buddy Hal's wedding for it. And Wilford came on. He said he can't wait to play in the snow.

He's a huge Larry Bird fan. So everybody felt in love with him immediately just after a 10 minute phone. All right. I want to stay on something here, though, because it gets back to the information thing. So we sort of I derailed the conversation a bit on the Lamar thing because it was like, okay, you mentioned something very specific, which I think is specific to the Lamar Jackson question,

and that is gathering the information. And when it's a non-traditional representation path here, which is what it is, and he doesn't have the agent kind of work in the room at the combine, you know, being out at dinner, kind of talking to the people that were doing the job that you were doing. I think you brought up another good point. It's like, okay, well, if the number is this number that's just sort of out there, we have to know how real

that number is. I respect people in certain industries for not wanting to have an agent, not wanting to pay the 10%. Hey, if there's people that I know that do my job that are like, I don't want to pay somebody 10% because I'm happy what I'm doing. That's fine. But what if you want to leave? Okay. And when you want to leave, that's when that person, that representation becomes valuable. And I feel like that's part of the story where it makes it a little more challenging for the player. Yeah, it does. And especially, you know, and I can count them, you know, Yeah, it does. And especially, you know, and I can count them, you know, less than two hands, the number of players where I did direct contract negotiations with.

But they were different than this, right? I mean, you mentioned that Teddy Bruschi had Brad Blank as his agent for years, and then he decided late in his career that he wanted to do it himself. And Teddy and I sat down and talked and did the numbers. wanted to do it himself and teddy and i sat down and and talked and did the numbers and in those conversations you know when you're on a side and you you're you're trying to explain why um you think this player needs to be paid in the range of these other players you can very unintentionally be received as being disrespectful even though you're not and you're trying not to because you're right we can sit here all day we're going to disagree on things on certain things and and and you know when it's when it's people say it's it's business it's not personal

um i've always had a problem with that saying, because personal business is extremely personal. It doesn't get any more personal than that. So when you're talking about someone's ability to earn and their finances, you're getting all up in their business. And when you make that decision as a player or when you make that decision as a person that you're going to negotiate on your own behalf, you have to understand that there's going to be some really uncomfortable parts of the conversation, even if, you know, no matter how much in love you are, conversations get difficult. Okay. Last thing before we finish up was I was prepping and just making sure I had everything buttoned up. You know, we know the central connecticut resume the new house school master's

degree coming in handy by the way yeah how about that huh but communications too it was like i didn't think i was ever gonna be doing any of this stuff i had my application filled out and then i got a job in trenton so that was that was it saved me a few bucks uh i noticed the pictures early 2000 scott pioli were you hoping to maybe get a couple snaps at d tackle if you lost a body in practice you were jacked scott you were a big and and you had the umbrella kind of cut off thing that you and bill thrive in and so i was i was looking back at the pictures i i forgot how much size we were talking about here but let's we'll talk about this too thankfully body fat was not being measured at the time so you know i i was blessed as a footballer my my dad always had broad shoulders and you know he my dad was a was a

blue collar worker i don't know big shoulders i guess are in the family and and and you know thomas dimitrov always kids me about even when i lose weight i've got this big barrel chest so yeah it looked bigger at the time but like i said the body fat component because if you look Thomas Dimitrov always kids me about even when I lose weight, I've got this big barrel chest. It looked bigger at the time. Like I said, the body fat component, because if you look closely at the pictures though, you see the shoulders and the chest. I've never been – people who love to work out and burn stress, they love to run. Dude, I hate running. I hate anything to do with conditioning.

So my thing was, I always used to love to lift weights. And so I never stopped lifting weights. But if you go back and you look at those pictures along with the broad shoulders, that's a pretty big fat head. I am. I look at my wife. I said,

how did you get that fat, man? Well, it wasn't a European cut, so you were good. And by the way, Dimitrov, I mean, as a bike guy, weightlifting guys don't want to hear it from the bike guy. Well, Thomas, I'll tell you what. I've known Thomas forever since I started. His dad was one of my mentors. So Thomas and I worked together Thomas forever since I started. His dad is, you know, was one of my mentors. So Thomas and I worked together in Cleveland a hundred years ago. And he was at work.

He was working on the grounds crew just to remain involved in football. And Thomas, you know, Thomas, again, he's, you know, he's 57 now. He looks different. He does. He's got a different regimen than he did. But Thomas, back in the day, he loved to lift weights. But he's got scars. He's had both different regimen than he did. But Thomas, back in the day, he loved to lift weights. But he's got scars. He's had both shoulders cut up.

He's got – yeah, he's – so he had to stop doing certain lifts. But I saw pictures of Thomas, you know, when he played. He was a defensive back. You know, he looked very different. Big, thick neck. Big, ugly mullet. He had a bad mullet, too, by the way. Yeah, but he's always a little – he's always got a different vibe to him, which I've

respected, by the way. For guys that played, I'm not going to get on anybody's exercise thing because you guys played and I'm just sitting here hanging out. Let's do this again, Scott. Appreciate it. Yeah, let's ride. Again, Scott Piole, part of the NFL Network's draft coverage.

It'll be April 27th to the 29th. Network's draft coverage. It'll be April 27th to the 29th. Hey, somebody I got to meet years ago. We keep in touch. I'm passionate about his job. He is passionate. That's why he has it. It's George Atala, who is the Assistant Executive Director of External Affairs

for the NFLPA. What's up, man? Good to see you again. So good to see you, man. It's been a while. Glad to be with you. I'm just going to jump in headfirst here. The Lamar Jackson story, we're all trying to figure it out. And JJ Watt had a tweet yesterday where he was just kind of like, why are so many teams, and specifically the owners, okay, just announcing why they have no interest in Lamar Jackson and never being specific, which is something that you pointed out that, hey, this is really important. So let's just start at the beginning. Where are you right now with trying to figure out what's going on with the Lamar Jackson

story this offseason? Yeah, we're trying to figure it out as well. And I think we have more questions than answers. We have a lot of questions around why the non-exclusive why were the baltimore ravens so comfortable placing the non-exclusive tag on a on an mvp player in his prime at the most important position i mean to restate what jj posted on twitter um why did teams back away when that tag came in why at the league meetings just a few days ago were NFL owners out there literally devaluing the player by saying that he's got an injury record or whispers around other things that are just demonstrably not true. So right now, Ryan, we just have a lot more questions than we do answers. I think it's our job, obviously, to not just back him up,

but if there is another, let's just say, coordinated effort to prevent this young man from getting what he deserves, then it's our job to try to figure that out. Coordinated was a very specific word. It was it was a different it was a different word than maybe the one that starts with the same letter that's it's a little bit more uh damning um i'll just say it then i mean is there a fear that collusion is going on there's there is a fear that there is a fear and um without you know diving into the pool that potentially doesn't have I've heard you raise and what raised your eyebrows are all the things that is our responsibility to stand up, not just for Lamar, but for players that are going to come after him, right? So there's another crop of quarterbacks who are

coming after him who might want to look at what happens with Lamar as a basis for what they get in the marketplace. You're a basketball guy. You know that guaranteed contracts didn't come about until Larry Bird used Moses Malone's contract and said, I want it fully guaranteed, guys. And when Larry did it, and that became the custom of practice in basketball, trickled over into baseball. And we've had fits and starts here in the NFL, but never fully had guaranteed contracts the way that other sports have. Not a result of the CBAs, but a result of the leverage that the players have wanted

to use with their agents to get that done. So if Lamar feels like he's valued at that level, which we certainly believe he is, then go for it, man. We've got your back. How do you think Deshaun Watson's contract then being fully guaranteed, what, $240 million? How do you think that has influenced the way players view themselves? I think there's been a trend over the last five years. Given the combination of teams have to spend money. There's a minimum cash spend in the NFL.

There is a resounding feeling amongst players that they now have more leverage than they used to have. I think our agents are getting smarter about, you know, language and contracts and using tools that maybe weren't the case years ago. I think the union has done a better job of making sure information is available both publicly and privately to players and agents to set the market, so to speak. And then, you know have a you have a contract like deshaun it sort of sets the you know holy cow we we should be out trying to get this done too for ourselves so it's not so much the deshaun thing which nfl owners love to call quote unquote the outlier

call quote unquote the outlier. It's more of we're trying to set a trend here that players have leverage, that players have value and that they should go out and get it. And it's not just at the quarterback position either. So we're pleased to see that. And by the way, teams have to spend the money anyway. So go out and go out and do it. The franchise tag, I remember as a fan loving it because it meant my favorite player would always stay unless he wasn't good anymore. And then I remember hearing media members arguing it's not that big of a deal because if you look at the number of players

that actually played under the franchise tag, it's minimal, which is true. But then once I became a little more educated, I was like, that's not the point. It's not the point. And for those that have listened to this podcast, I know you've heard it a million times. I'll just say it one more time. The fact that it exists is a problem. Is there ever during CBA negotiations, could you give us a sense of how little was my guess momentum there is of the player side going, we need to fix this mechanism. We need to actually eliminate this mechanism so that it doesn't exist,

so that it doesn't suppress really what true free agency would be, where if Lamar were a true free agent or other top quarterbacks are true free agents, we'd have more contracts that would reflect Deshaun Watson. But we're still kind of in this like transitionary period where, well, we don't have to guarantee all of it. And again, that's another debate about guarantees and what it would mean the first

three years, which I'm not, I'm not trying to get bogged down in, but of the, the to-do list that the players association wants you to focus on. I mean, my guess is it's not a major priority because of the what? 1,700 plus players there. There's very few that care because they know it's

not really ever going to impact their career. They do care. And I don't want to diminish the tag as an issue that needs to be fixed or eradicated altogether. I don't want to diminish that. It's been in place since 1993. So let's just start there. Every CBA, we've done whatever we can as a union to chip away at the nature of the tag as a restrictive mechanism for players. Kirk Cousins famously and effectively used the franchise tag to leverage that into a guaranteed contract. Right. So it's not that it's a bad thing or a good thing. I think, Ryan, when we're talking about these issues, the context

of how all of them fit together and how players and agents and the union candidly need to flex in order to make those more beneficial to players than they were to owners, I think that's really beneficial to players than they were to owners. I think that's really the conversation that we're trying to have, which is, look, it's a monumental hill to climb in order to kill it. It just is. And players have to do something, whether it's on an individual level or on a collective level to get rid of it altogether. And that just needs to, you know, we need to have that discussion. But it's a negotiation.

Owners don't want it out. We want it out. It's either what are we willing to give up for it or do to get it out? Or what's their willingness to get rid of it or kill it from the CBA? And so so far we've found this sort of in between um space where we've chipped away at it and chipped away at it same with commissioner discipline right you could say the same thing about a number of singular polarizing issues that are on the quote-unquote to-do list as you put it um our job is to try to if we can't get rid of them in one felt swoop how do we chip away to make it less restrictive for the players and i don't want to get that number wrong when i say

you know because it's not just the 53 times 32 teams uh yeah we're talking yeah right okay all right but you know when we're talking about this out loud like and you're saying we're almost at 2 000 players okay well we can we can make progress on chipping away at the franchise tag but we're talking about this out loud, and you're saying we're almost at 2,000 players, okay, well, we can make progress on shipping away at the franchise tag, but we're going to have to take a cut here. And it's like, no. So I get why it's been in place since 1993. As far as Lamar and the rumors about his representation or not having any representation, what is true? What can you put to rest about how his information is being relayed to teams and what's being relayed to him? Well, obviously the league sent out that letter, making sure the teams knew that they were supposed to be distant from somebody who was purporting to represent Lamar. Lamar went out publicly and said that that wasn't the case. There is a provision, you know, that, that only registered contract advisors can represent players. If that's not the case, player has to represent himself. And in this case,

we're doing what we can to support Lamar. So I think, you know, I'll let Lamar's tweets stand for themselves and don't want to get ahead of where he's at in terms of how he's approaching this process. But rest assured, we've been as supportive as we can over the last, not just over the last few weeks, but over the last year or so. And we continue to be proud that we're doing that. I didn't know what to make of that story at all because on one hand, I saw what Lamar's tweets were, and I'm sure there's tons of stuff that Lamar has seen about him that isn't true, and he points out to us that isn't true.

I also have a hard time believing that multiple teams would just tell NFL media members that there is this guy. So I'm trying to figure out how the chain of information is going from which teams are interested, what's out there. And I think we both know how business is done. I talked with Pioli about this just minutes ago where it's like, and I've talked about this with Mike Sandler. If you're going to try to get out of your gig, there usually has to be somebody else helping you figure out where the landing spots are. I don't care who you are.

So if he doesn't have anyone talking to the teams, which I don't think is true, there has to be some way. Can you help? Can you advise? Can you make calls on his behalf? What can you do with something that's a little non-traditional here for a player? Yeah, we've been in touch with him. But remember, he doesn't necessarily, the non-exclusive tag at the moment doesn't necessarily require a negotiation or us to be out there

trying to fish around. I mean, he put out in his tweets on, what was it, Monday morning that he requested a trade in early March. The tag right now is the tag is the tag. So there's a price if teams want to go get them. There's a price that they can go get them. There's been a precedent set where other teams have made trades for non-quarterback, non-MVP players that nearly match that value of the non-exclusive tag. So then everything sort of points back to the initial question of, does he really need an agent or us or anybody else to gin up interest?

That's really the core question here is, why is it a question that there's somebody out there that needs to gin up interest from teams that clearly could use an upgrade at that position. And even if they don't need an upgrade at that position, he's an MVP caliber player, right? And instead, what's happening is you've got teams on the record and seeding things on background to other folks in the media devaluing Lamar. devaluing Lamar and I think that's the thing that um you know I'll use the word offensive is offensive to us as a tactic is don't try to cover up um the the true nature of what's happening behind the scenes by you know seating this over here or saying you're not interested over there or saying we're happy with the guy we've got, you know, in the case of some other teams, like he's an MVP player. And that's really what our focus is on.

Yeah, and that does bring it back to something that I actually did want to follow up. It's weird to see an owner at an owner's meeting sitting outside in Arizona talking about the injury history of another player. It's weird. Yeah. And this feels pretty unique that we've had a,

you know, beat reporter for this team checked. No interest that, that maybe isn't that, that by the way, isn't that what was weird is to see the Arthur blank thing, who I'm wondering if he's actually just trying to tell his constituents before you,

you wonder why. I'm protecting myself and my own fan base. This isn't about some coordinated effort. You asked me the question. I'm telling you what our football people are telling you. But it feels very specific to Lamar where I can see both your frustration and his fellow players' frustration because I don't know that I've seen this. I'm trying, I mean, I hate forgetting stuff. I don't, have we ever seen something like this?

I certainly haven't. I mean, you know, I've been in my role now for whatever it is, 14 years. I mean, you know, our executive director, Demore Smith, you know, said explicitly he hasn't seen anything like this in his career. The reality is, and, you know, I'm not attempting to pivot to a totally different subject, but what we learned and we've always known when we did our, for example, our report card project, there's not a, you know, every team is like a different, has a different culture and a different standard. I think the biggest unkept secret in the NFL, what we're finding with some of these teams coming out there, they're so terrified of communicating to their fan bases that they're actually not trying to win.

That's the thing that I think is the most frustrating part about all this is you're right. They are trying to signal to their fan base that, Hey, don't be upset if we didn't come after one of the best players to be available in the marketplace for several years now, maybe in a generation it's because he's got an injury record or it's because he's got this or because he's got that man. If I'm a Falcons fan,

I'm, I'm angry. I'm'm annoyed you're trying to come up here and sell me season tickets and and you know concessions and all the like and make me buy jerseys and all this stuff and a once in a generation player is available and you're going to tell me that you're not going to go after him because of his injury history i'd be kind of upset if i was a Falcons fan. Okay, I like to do this. I don't like doing it for the owners,

but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. All right. And I don't want to do it for this ownership group that I'm going to. But it's just you and me here, right? Right. But again, I cannot like someone. I cannot like something. I don't hold myself to some rule where I have to disagree with 100% of what they say, even though the NFL owners get pretty close. All right, let me look at it this way.

I think there's real confusion on what the real number is. Deshaun's guaranteed at 230 mil. That was obviously unique. I think it's kind of great for the players, but I think it's clear the owners are like, don't expect that that's going to be the norm. But then if there isn't the agent in the traditional sense, the traditional line of communication here where it's like, what is the actual number? So if there's an owner that's like, I don't even know what the hell the number is. Is that

what he wants? We're not doing that. Maybe without the message, this is a little cloudy. The missed games thing, although odd that Arthur Blank would bring it up in that point, although maybe he was just playing to his fan base or explaining it to him, I think it's a real part of it.

And Baltimore still has leverage here because of the tat. So what if this is just as simple as a player who, as good as he is with the MVP resume, isn't really considered by the football people as a clear-cut top five guy and that there's maybe some more things you have to do to bring them in you have to work some things around offensively I think your eyes are already starting to roll on me what no they're not rolling what what what absorbing what if it's just a bunch of teams that are saying and I'd agree with I don't love that's happening publicly that they're going he's really good.

Maybe he's not one of those guys. And if this $230, $240 million rumor is actually even true, we're good. We're not going to do this. What if that's all this is? I don't know how to respond to that beyond saying, first, out of respect for Lamar, we're not going to negotiate on his behalf uh in the media he knows what his value is he knows what he believes he's worth and he knows what the marketplace you know has borne out for quarterbacks who have negotiated

contracts just in the last couple years before him so there's no you know there's no, you know, there's no magic number out there that either he, you know, is going to land on or whatever. And we certainly are not going to get ahead of him on that. I think the point that we're really fixated on as a union in our support of Lamar as he seeks his full value are the questions that I asked about. And to your point, if a singular team looks at him as a player and says, okay, that's not what we're interested in at the moment, then that's okay in an isolated case. But it's not the case that it's an isolated situation where you've got only one team out there who's walked away or publicly tried to see that they're backing away. In isolation, what you're saying is acceptable, but we're not talking about isolation. And I think we have to take things as they are, as opposed to,

you know, what, what I think you're trying to make the case of, yeah, one team's out, one team's out, right? Like, I can see the case in the case of Buffalo. Hey, we got Josh Allen. He's our guy. We're all in on Josh. He's brought us close to a Super Bowl. And that's our quarterback. That's an isolated case. We're not seeing that in the public marketplace right now. That's the frustrating part. Is there a move here for the NFLPA? Is there an ending where you feel like as a union, there's a move that you have to make? Could be, but I'll share that with you at another time. Could be, but I'll share that with you at another time.

Could be. Could be. Is there any hint at what would have to happen for a move to possibly be scheduled, you know, for a move that could happen? We have a little bit of, in general, I think, there's a little bit of luxury of time, right? Like training camps don't really start up until July. There's going to be a period here where you've got some inflection points with the draft and other things that could change teams' perspective

or move things around. So we're still very early in the process. I think it's, it's, I think it's really important for us to have this conversation about what we're seeing and, and clarify some of the misinformation that is being seeded about Lamar, right? The injury history, the, there's a magic number that he won't move off of, how he's going about this process. I think all of those things are important to talk about to make sure that, number one, he knows that we've got his back, but number two, that he doesn't feel like he's out there alone trying to combat this stuff, right? So I think all of those are really important. And then the second piece, Ryan,

is we have to really, again, it's our job if there's a coordinated effort, it's our job to try to find out if that's the case and prove it. We'll see. We'll see how this plays out, but we've

got a little bit of time. And thanks for your time today. It's George Tal from the NFLPA. It's always a pleasure, man. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Alright, we got life advice. LifeadviceR at gmail.com. We have a million follow-ups. We could do it.

You know, I lead from the front here. I should have mentioned the tampon. If you just joined today's podcast for the first time ever or are you confused uh but the toilet the high yeah the high pressure toilet question of the girl i dropped the ball on that one i wasn't thinking about we had a lot of people chime in and tell us we were what it was some other people told us we were absolute fucking idiots for not bringing it up i just wasn't thinking that way so um you know i forget did they hook up right after though yeah that's what he said so that's

why it doesn't make a ton of sense to me unless i don't think well i mean now we're going down a road again you know i just because that was the first thing i thought of when it was that but i now i don't want to even do this anyway but my favorite part is the follow-up of the guy that's even more wrong than we were by not bringing it up where it's like are you guys seriously not fucking realizing that it's like and then it's like that's definitely not what it was um like the mystery solvers over here so all right so that's one follow-up everybody hates the rudy now again it's funny you're turning into you're turning into like an elitist now on the show yeah which is really the master's thing yeah what's

going on with you well i first off obviously they sent out the tweet of the video it was a good video and you know in that video i say i'm happy for the guy i'm happy for my brother-in-law it's gonna be an awesome time i just kind of feel a little weird about it i don't think i'm being an asshole i don't think i'm being like Debbie Downer. It's kind of how I feel. You felt the same way, Ryan. So I don't know. I'm happy that I'm not sitting here saying Kyle's a phony like

the Rosillo memes account is tweeting out family guy clips about me calling everybody a phony. I don't think Kyle's a phony. I just think it didn't really go to the masters. I'm happy for Kyle. So I don't know. Maybe I'm a dick. I got the cups cups i got the cups in my house i don't have to say yeah as you said you ate a couple sandwiches like i'm happy for you i'm happy for everybody it's just i don't know i just think i just think there's a difference it's not even now it feels a little condescending

but i'd like to move on if you would i'm happy for you glad you glad you saw augusta but does that mean you think you've been to Detroit 10 times because you've been to the airport, Kyle? Those people actually are the worst. How many states have you been to? Well, you know, this many. I had a layover in Denver. Layover in Charlotte all the time.

Happy, though? Big Charlotte guy. Yeah, I'm a huge Charlotte guy. I've never been in the city. I've been to the airport 20 times. I don't know that there's a place I've been to more that I've not been to than Charlotte. Yeah, I mean, that's why

it's a good joke. Detroit's right there. Because I did drive from Detroit to East Lansing when I did a show at Michigan State, but I didn't hang out in Detroit. Yeah, I think Detroit and Charlotte would be they'd be one seeds, that's for sure. Speaking of seeds,

we did our sweet 16 of of worst dudes there's probably some production stuff that i could add to it maybe a year from now if i ever want to do it again but you never know kyle never checked back in with us on tuesday because there was something to the text thread to the extent of like you had some serious serious like we had left some people out of the tournament um and then Tuesday it was never brought up I don't know if that was my fault or your fault I don't know if we need to investigate further on this one it was it was not uh it was not your fault it was I was kind of trying to sweep it under the rug I believe I'm looking for the text. I think I texted you. Yeah, it was Saturday.

It was a Saturday text. And it makes all the sense in the world. It was like, we have to do the honorable mention, guys. I've got a million of them. Some of them are awesome. Some are awesome is the best part of the text, by the way. Some are awesome. I have so many.

I think I said I have so many. Some are awesome. And you were like, great, I'm down. And then I remember texting the thread the next day, like, are we good to go or something and i saw that text i was like oh no i forgot all of them i was like i hope he doesn't bring this up and then uh you it was like a typical i got the greatest idea in the world you know a couple couple reabs deep as i've learned the vernacular from you and i was just like i'm a genius i can't wait to do this. And then, you know, Tuesday rolls around. I'm like, I don't even know who that guy is. So I you asked me today and I was like, no, no, I didn't.

We didn't forget. I definitely just tried to steer us along into another direction instead of the honorable mention guy. So a long story short, I can't remember even one of the hundreds that I had on Saturday. You can't remember one? No, I was working them out with the fellas at the bar. They were giving me some, and we were all getting excited. We're like, oh, yeah, thanks for the segment, man. I appreciate it.

We'll get a follow-up going. Can't remember one. You're right, though, Rudy, because it's a three-bracketed text here. I think we should do honorable mentions for worst guy on Tuesday next text I've got a bunch last text some are awesome that makes it worse but see the thing is is that's how fucking annoying the hangover is in that that is the most harmless text. None of it means. And then the first thing in your head is, oh, no, what did I send?

And it's the mind just fucking with everybody where it's like you didn't say anything. I was I even immediately responded, fired up for it. Can't wait. I was. Yeah, I was. I wonder how many great songs never got made because that guy was just like, fuck, what was that? It was like sitting at the bar thinking about a tune in his head. Some of the greatest songs in the world probably never got made

because of that exact situation. All right. All right, let's get to some life advice. Sorry for that. You don't need to be sorry. Stop apologizing. Well, I'm just sorry I dropped the ball on the... They were awesome.

I can tell you. I remember how I felt. They were awesome, but I don't know what they are. Okay. This title is I Can't Stop Dating My Teammates. Okay. 22

65 165 on a good day. Slim. Good day for the Durant Open. Oh, yeah. Quit basketball in middle school to focus on my main sport, track. Oh, all right. Okay, that makes sense. Because I was too short, my game is basically Jay Crowder without a jump shot.

Sometimes Jay Crowder's game is Jay Crowder's game without a jump shot. So I run cross country and track at D1 School in the South. Never been that great. Oh, he's cross-country? No wonder you've won 65, 60. Long strides, yeah. Yeah, fucking sinewy hammies. Never been that great, but definitely a glue guy. I think campaign in the

2021 playoffs. This guy loves pointing out Phoenix Suns role players. Great energy. He can give you buckets off the bench. I would admit, too, I've come around a campaign a little. Well, campaigns played better than just psycho campaign where you're like, what's this going to be like for this four-minute stretch? All right. So, great,

dude. We got it. I have one problem. I can't stop dating my teammates because we're a co-ed team. Okay. We spend a lot of time with the girls at practice, meets, etc. And with this comes some obvious feelings that will emerge. Brief history. Freshman year, I had a short-term situation with another freshman. Let's call her Anna. We'll get back to her. Will we?

Sophomore year was COVID, and I grew out of a really unfortunate... I grew out a really unfortunate mustache, so nothing was happening there. there so you just out of the game for an entire year going with the ironic mustache huh you know what i'm not trying to hook up let's grow a mustache yeah no seriously what are you doing there oh a long red chin thing remember the guy from anthrax i want that i want it redder and i I want it longer. Oh, my God. And I don't want to hook up once for both semesters. Mission accomplished, dude. All right. Junior year, I made out with the hottest girl on our team.

This guy's all over the place. Some of these guys should pay you for how well you read their emails. That's pretty good. Her name was Maria, and that was in December. And then I dated her best friend, Sophia, also on the team for about eight months. February to September of 22. Oh, he's the best in time. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, this guy, if he murders anybody, he's going to have his story locked up. Like, no, that was March. Like, damn, we can't crack this guy. It must be the mustache. Flash forward to this semester, and Anna comes back into the picture. That was who we made out with freshman year. Freshman.

Thank you, Kyle. Keep writing these down. About a month ago, I found out she broke up with her boyfriend of about two years. The backup punter, good leg, just not great work ethic. Bro, you're kind of exposing yourself here a bit. And we decided to catch up over a platonic cup of coffee. This led to a lot of flirting, texting, hanging out. Just an aside, I didn't know what platonic meant for a little while.

And boy, when you don't know what that word means and you're texting with a woman, she's really into astrology. You are on two completely different wavelengths. Oh man. Really into the planets. Wait, this is a platonic sleepover. All right.

Kyle's like, that's crazy. I'm a Sagittarius. I also love the stars. For a podcast that doesn't smoke weed, man, this is an interesting episode. All right. This led to a lot of flirting, texting, hanging out. Now, about a month later, we're basically dating.

She also said, I'm a Kyle-level kisser, which was a huge win for the skinny guys. That explains why you can't stop dating people. Yeah, she was like, he's kind of skinny, and that mustache here sucked. Man, can he make out? So here's my question. What should I do? I really like her, but I'm about to move very far away to the Northwest, and she's coming off a very long-term relationship that didn't end great, not to mention the girls team, especially Marie and Sophia, are anything but thrilled about the situation. But Anna and I work really well together.

Neither of us really cares what everyone else thinks, not to mention she's super hot and kind of out of my league. There it is. Am I overthinking it? Yes. And should I just enjoy myself before breaking it off once I graduate in May, seeing where it goes? Should I cut myself off from the girls team since obviously I have no self

control? Honestly, I think you should do whatever you can to always be on this team. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Do we do it? Do I get a COVID year?

Yeah. I think he does get a COVID year. Yeah. Sounds like you're going to grad school, my man. Yeah. Add a major. You like history? Although the team, if they knew this, they'd be like, I mean, how well does the team do?

Be like, oh, our girls team's terrible. This guy keeps making out with all of them and they're all fighting. Although cross country. Team route is super low. Yeah. Team vibes are shattered because of this great kisser it's really skinny yeah you're overthinking it dude you're 22

none of this is going to matter ever if you like the one girl more than all the other ones that you've made out with just ride it out for a bit and it sounds like you're going to be making out with chicks and you move to the other town and you're not going to care about any of this you are not experienced enough to go through how like you should just be psyched that

this is your problem okay and i don't mean to be dismissive of age of anyone being younger but it's just a very true thing like as you get older you start to look at these decisions going who gives a shit because you've already been through these things you already have these scars and you're like whatever like this is not even a scar this isn't it like apparently every hot girl on team Vision's going, who gives a shit? Because you've already been through these things. You already have these scars and you're like, whatever. This is not even a scar. Apparently, every hot girl on the team wants to make out with you. And then the one that you like the most likes you again. And you're graduating.

What are we in? Almost April here. Yeah. You're not going to see 95% of these people ever again, very shortly. So I wouldn't stress out about it. I think I'd just look in the mirror and fucking point to myself and go i'm awesome if i were you yeah i mean if this was if you were a junior i would say dude just stop dating people to see

what happens would you but um now he did that sophomore year well i mean he he kind of took that back he didn't have a choice right he was like i'm sitting at home anyway right he was like it was pandemic mustache sort of likely yeah likely kyle he was just like you know i'm not even legally supposed to touch you know kiss a woman right now so it's like uh i think it was he he's like i feel bad for like those people that lost part of their like high school shit like you know my cousins or you know my cousin zoe she lost like two two and a half years of her high school. It's like, she just didn't have the normal thing. And so for this guy, I was going to say like, oh, well you've dated somebody and then you got

locked down and then you kissed a couple of girls and now you're about to be, and now you're about to be dating someone else. But yeah, it doesn't matter. I would say don't date her. Uh, but if, if you make it seem like she's dating you, cause you guys are about to be out of here and like, what is it? I don't know if what the sec sort of uh schedule is but i mean you'll probably be out of there by like may right so yeah i don't know i don't know what it is either i mean we're looking at under six weeks here yeah i'd say you know would it matter if you want to hang out if you want to hang out often that's cool but i wouldn't like start making like plans and and summer you know summer like i'll go to your family summer vacation

you come to mine i wouldn't do any of that but i would just you know whatever she's comfortable with if she's like you know she doesn't want you to be seeing other people during the stretch and you're cool with that that's cool but i mean you're probably gonna break up with her as soon as you leave anyways right if you guys are dating so i just say yeah do what feels comfortable you don't even have to really bring it up i just say start keep keep kissing that girl man good good for you but i wouldn't uh i wouldn't be like laying out plans or anything if i were you as long as you can keep her happy you don't have to you have to rock the boat it is interesting like the you know i don't have much to add on that but i will say so he's a tall guy he's an athlete so you know like the

likelihood the likelihood that he leaves college and is still going to be able to do all right in the scene is probably pretty high right but there is this weird thing like you kind of just always think that oh like you know of just always think that, oh, like, you know, in college, it's so easy to meet other people. It's so easy to meet girls. And then you kind of go out into the real world. You get a job. It's just, it's not the same. This guy has the built in track thing where he just always has an in

with these, you know, hot girls. I don't know. I would say don't let that die until the last minute because you just never know. You never know. So keep riding this thing. Do your thing. And you know, I wouldn't commit to anything long term. You know, I don't think you have to the last minute because you just never know you never know so keep riding this thing do your thing and uh you know i wouldn't commit to anything long term you know i don't think you have to do that if she's asking you that then just i would just walk away but you know i would just give it up for the last month or so well yeah i mean if she's like hey i want to lock you down now i want to make sure this is nothing for the long term i don't think i would

sign up for that but he is a good kisser maybe she will honestly walking around being like we spent way too much time on this one like this is yeah congrats dude yeah you're good don't think about it much more but yeah when you're like 27 and running around in seattle and your fucking pants a ton of hot girls aren't gonna want to make out with you this much definitely not just a heads up all right uh let's see here once in a lifetime opportunity okay uh this isn't this one isn't specifically for ryan but mostly for ryan i'm 22 23 in a week happy birthday bud 6 2 180 pounds i'm abroad in the league with a couple kids in my college program for the last full semester of school. My goal in life is to always become a GM of a professional soccer team. So maybe that was for sure. Okay. I know you repeatedly said in the past that the only way to become one is to quote, know a billionaire who owns a team or know a billionaire who wants to buy a team. to buy a team. That wasn't the only one. It was the advice that I got and it is very accurate advice. And yeah, I mean, you can go that route. I'm not saying that it's impossible to do it any other way. Well, my roommate is family friends with the owner of an MLS team. Won't say good. That's good. Smart step. I wasn't going to share it even if you did, because we're not going to do

that. When I told my roommate one night how passionate I was and how determined I was to make this dream come true, he told me he literally is family friends with an owner and has his phone number. We chatted further, and he told me he could set me up for the meeting with him when I get back. Now, just to show that I'm not some schmuck who likes sports and has no intangible skills for the job,

I've worked very hard and currently in the number one international business program in the country and double major in international business and economics with this program while keeping a 3.8 gpa fuck yeah dude i've had management internships along with pretty high level banking responsibilities i don't believe that part i don't that's like that show industry where that girl's like an intern they're like go after this guy see if you can get a couple billion from him she's like okay cool uh i don't i sound like i'm really dissing this guy just you know i mean hey we all juice up the resume it's okay if you do it for us right um and i've also played on club soccer teams where by the end of my freshman year at my old university i was named captain wait you were named maybe you

do do high level banking then unstoppable force this guy he was a freshman captain oh club team oh still i don't know i was named captain was having thorough discussions with my coach about tactical analysis and how to approach our roster and formations. I am very pragmatic and analytic personality. People tell me way too much. This is almost to a fault. Yes, I know that's not great either, but it helps with where I want to be. So he can look, he can analyze, but he also can make the decision that needs to be made. Okay, now that I have the important points of the story, when I get back to the States, I have this meeting with the owner

of this MLS team. How do I approach the conversation? So you're going to meet with the owner of an MLS team. All right. I know I would never get some high-level position out of college. Yes, you would not. Good to know. Yes, you would not. I should yes yes you should be your gm

no but you know in fairness the emailer he could very well be doing the disarming of you know like he's stating something all of us know that's super obvious but we all feel like we have to say it now because we have to craft every fucking opinion in sentence to be armored against the guy that's like, well, did you actually like, you know, like it's not a fucking thesis, it's a tweet. So unfortunately, I think we're all fucking doing this. So let's give the emailers some credit. You're right. Give them the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't,

he didn't need to talk himself out of becoming assistant GM right out of college. That's the problem, man. We're all sharing all these thoughts with each other. And then we go into these defensive modes of like, well, no shit. You don't have to say that. And you're like, dude, you've been out there, been swimming in the deep end. So, all right. I'm realistic, but do I ask if there's an opportunity for me to shadow the current GM? No, no. I was going to say, he's going to love that. Right. Do I ask what it takes to become a GM or how to get in touch with people who could get me to that goal? No.

See if you can sell some tickets, pal. Right. I'm answering these questions in real time. I'm just not fully sure what to ask or how to approach it. Yeah, we're finding that out. Love some advice from you guys. I realize an opportunity like this is literally once in a lifetime for just about anyone, and I cannot fuck it up. I'll never forgive myself for it. All right, well, let's not fuck

it up together. I get what you want to do. And you know what? It is important to tell an employer at some point what you want to do. I wouldn't tell them in the interview. You know what I mean? Get inside the gates and fucking figure it out once you're inside. I wouldn't tell them in the interview. You know what I mean? Get inside the gates and fucking figure it out once you're inside. I think that's really good advice that I was given about like, you don't want to sit in an interview and give them reasons to not give you this gig. Now you may have a leg up because of the personal relationship. What you want to be is you want to be the least threatening, most eager, most malleable, non-fucking-annoying, sort of driven, but keep it to your fucking self guy ever in this interview, right? You want to have all these

things that you could potentially be, but you want to make sure you're avoiding being perceived as somebody that's like, wait, are we going to get this guy in here? He's going to be super fucking annoying. I remember one time, fuck, I was trying to get a bartending gig at davio's right and they were like what else do you do and i was like i'm part-time at this radio station and she was like oh so you want to bartend but you also want to do something else i'm like yeah like what's your 401k like here i can't be the only bartender that's ever also had potentially other goals granted i wasn't gonna be a very good fit for that place uh that wasn't gonna be a good fit so um but you want to avoid like talking too much now granted like this this this concept of talking less

sitting back it is great i can't do it i'm by myself way too much at least at espn i was nine to five so when i got home i didn't want to talk i don't know man can't do it. I'm by myself way too much. At least at ESPN, I was nine to five. So when I got home, I didn't want to talk. I don't know, man, I'm getting fucking weird. I'm by myself all the time. So now I'm talking more than I ever did before. Like if I'm in a group setting and I've made some adjustments where I'm like, Hey, chill the fuck out. Um, it's like, man, people what's going on. So the point of this is, is that at 22 is eager or 23 in a week, as eager as you are and as excited as you are. And like, man, it's kind of fucking, you don't want to like freak out about this. You know, this is you talking to the hot girl. That's actually giving you attention. That's what this is for you. And you're like, all right,

keep it together. So here's what I would do. You know what you want to do. All right. You don't have to share that with them the entire time. You want to come in and you're going to say, look, All right. You don't have to share that with them the entire time. You want to come in and you're going to say, look, this is what I want to do. This is what I've been preparing myself to do. If you want to say like one day I would love to be in a position to work on the front office side, that's totally fine. They probably should ask you that in the interview. Like, what do you see yourself doing? Right. You can share it then. But don't say, hey, can I shadow the GM now? Because you know what the GM is likely going to do? Like what? He doesn't know you yet. That's a privilege. That's a privilege for the GM to then invest some of his time in you. And you're going to figure out how to have to do that. But once you're inside the doors, you could do it. Don't share it in that meeting. I think the point that I'm trying to make here is that your number one goal should be about selling yourself to get in the doors and be willing to do anything and prove with your resume and your grades and how motivated that you've been in the past. And then you're in these international business classes overseas and that you're a double

fucking major. Like you'd be like, I, this is what I want to do more than anything. And I can't wait to get my whole stuff started. That's all the selling that you're really going to have to do because the specific stuff of like, oh, are we going to get this guy in here? And in six months, he's going to say, hey, I know my worth and I'm going to tell you my truth now. And I need to be a GM and you're 23. Not saying that's what you're going to do, but like sometimes i have admiration for this younger generation of kind of demanding things earlier and then other times i find them to be the most annoying fucking people ever because i'm just like what are you talking about like get your ass kicked a little bit all right especially if you're trying to do the really cool shit that's more specific that there's way more competition with so i know it sounds like i'm saying two different things here but i'm not what i'm saying is you want to sell yourself in a way where you're not selling yourself as a potential problem, where it's like you are so driven that you're skipping some steps and you're going to have to do whatever they want you to do because a million people are going to want this job.

So know that, that this is a start, that you have this advantage. And the only real way you could fuck it up is by presenting yourself as somebody that's not willing to play the game for a little while. And then six months, maybe you do run into the GM. You ask him, hey, one day I'd love to be a GM. He's heard it a million times. She's heard it a million times. It doesn't matter. And you're like, okay, fine. Now you're on the radar. Maybe you give it another six months. Maybe just after that six months, the guy's like, all right, come hang out. I'll show you kind of what we're doing. Don't share that specific stuff in that first sit down is the point that I took way too long to make because I talk forever now. Yeah. It seems like most people that are successful, uh, in, in sports, but at most stuff, it's like, they've got a story of like, yeah, I was doing this. Then I was doing

that. And I was assistant to this guy. And like, there was usually like five or seven or 10 stops before they get to GM or head coach or whatever. So I think as long as you recognize, you just, you just want to have a job that you're okay doing in a place that you want to be. And then that's when you start formulating a plan, right? The plan isn't like, here's what I want to do when I get here, because this is my dream. It's like, just, just be, I try to hopefully, you know, make a good enough impression that they'll just bring you in. Cause they're going to look at it. Like they're doing you a favor, probably, even if you have, even if you have like, uh, you know, you went to a school and you have a 3.8 and blah, blah, blah. Like there's somebody that's got a 4.0. So there are 4.2 or whatever.

I don't even know how you get those, those crazy above 4.0 grades, but there's somebody that's that, that has it and that wants to do that job. So they're just going to look at you like they're doing you a favor if they like you. And if not, they'll be like, sorry, I can't do you a favor. So I think that's really what you're... And then you got to hit the ground running. But what you're basically doing is asking for a favor to be like, can I be anywhere in here? And then I'll prove it. So I don't have much to say other than that. This really isn't a job interview, right? I mean, you're just, you're talking to the owner. You have a connection.

That's great. Happens all the time. It's super pumped for you. Like it's an awesome situation to be in. But yeah, Ryan, you shouldn't, as you said, you shouldn't be in a position where you're like, hey, I want to do this. I want to do that.

I think you're just like, I think what you could talk about maybe is like some of the responsibilities of that job. Like I'm really into like player, player development and analytics and talk about stuff that the job is, but don't come out and say that this is the job that I want. And that way you're like, all right, like this guy's a good head on his shoulders. Like he, you know, I think he can fit him in the organization and also just be like, I'm open to just get my foot in the door and work my way up. I mean, obviously make that very clear. Like, don't make it seem like you want anything

handed to you. Like, you're like, hey, I'm smart. I'm really into this stuff, but I'm also like a hard worker and I'm, you know, kind of a ground up guy. Like I'm willing to put in whatever you guys need, I'll make it happen. And because again, there's really no job for you, right?

He's not there. You're not interviewing for a specific position. It could turn into an interview if he likes you because the guy runs the show, but it's not that, right? So you want to be one, likable and two, somebody who seems very motivated and can be valuable in the future. So I think, you know, talk about a lot of the things that maybe some people whose job you want that you can do or that you think you could eventually do well or at least provide value to.

But don't come out and say, hey, I want to do this or I want to do that. Because, again, there's not a job for you and this guy's just doing you a favor. there's not a job for you and this guy's just doing you a favor. So we just said something, though, that because we're kind of talking about this as if it were the interview. And look, you can sit down and say to the owner if it's this informal thing, but you're trying to get a job with this guy's team. So whether it's in the formal setting and you're walking in

with your resume that doesn't have anything on it other than your grades, you get your suit, you're all excited, and you're walking in with your resume that doesn't have anything on it other than your grades um you know you get your suit you're all excited and you're waiting out lobby and you're just you know going first day of the rest of my life and you walk in and you don't want to fuck it up but if this is a more casual thing and he's saying like hey what do you want to do then that you probably share like hey one day i'd love to be a gm but i know that that's going to take years and years. I want to get started and that's what I want to do. That's why I was anti the specifics of even whether it's informal or formal, you don't want to start having him be like, wait,

is this guy going to be a pain in the ass? Where it's like, hey, could I shadow the GM? Well, of course, if you work your way in at some point, you'll know the answer to that. But get inside before you ask that question. You know, when you say, quote, do I ask what it takes to become a GM or how to get in touch with people who could get me that goal? Don't fucking ask that. Don't ask that. I mean, again, with Grosbeck, I was in my 20s. He invited me over his house. I had a beer. He was like, what do you want to do with your life? And I was like, I want to be the GM of an NBA team. And he was like, good luck. And he was right. He wasn't going to help me with that. I picked up one thing he couldn't do. And it was stupid. It was fucking stupid by me. I had this guy who's incredibly successful, well-liked, taking time out of his day. And honestly, I look back on it,

things worked out, but I didn't know how to handle out but i didn't know how to handle it i didn't know how to handle it i i like froze i should have just like been casual about i'm like oh maybe i'd like to do this i'd like to do this like keep doors open keep the options open instead i just looked him straight in the eye i was like i want to be a gm of a basketball team the top job yeah i was like fucking okay dude but like you know what what what you kind of said is like yeah it's not a job interview but we're re-watching succession and it's sort of like when you know greg's in the elevator with logan like he like he knows he's strong strong for a man he knows what greg wants he knows what greg wants from him he's not like oh the kid just wants some advice on how to get back into the parks management program or whatever like he knows what he wants even if he's not coming out and saying it so i think it's safe to assume that

this this owner of an mlb team meeting with some random guy that his i don't know what what the connection is his uncle or his dad or his fucking friend or something like he knows this isn't like just oh i'm just gonna give this kid some some advice and send him on his way like he probably knows there's some sort of favor thing that that could come out of this so i mean it it's like it's not a job interview but it's not the fucking craziest thing in the world for you to you know have a job at this place in a couple months and like a month or something if they're like yeah we'll be in touch or something so uh you're right it's not a job interview but i think this this owner of a team isn't just sitting down to be like oh i'm sure he just wants to pick my brain on how to do the lowliest job he can get into sports industry or something like i'm sure i'm sure that there's some

sort of in the back of this guy's mind he knows i think what you have to do is because i feel maybe i was a little too dismissive of like you know because clearly i understand almost any job interview if it's a good one if the person interviewing you is smart it'll be like well where do you want to be in you know however many years or whatever that kind of stuff or it's a good one if the person interviewing you is smart it'll be like well where do you want to be in you know however many years or whatever that kind of stuff or it's a terrible uh pickup line but anyway uh i it's totally expected and fair for you go this is what i would like to do i need to get in i'm trying to find a way in don't assume that he's gonna you know invite you in here either uh now I feel like we've just thrown a bunch of stuff at this emailer here, the whole point,

and maybe he's lost in the confusion of it all. But don't think of the things that you would think would be annoying and don't ask them. Great. Although it doesn't seem like he had those thoughts yet. It seems like he was going to ask like, wow, who can you put me in touch with?

Like, I wouldn't do that. Make it his idea to want to help you out. That's all I'm saying. Make it, do it, find a way to mental gymnastics this guy's head into making it his idea to help you out. Just figure that out. Who's picking your goalies? Jesus Christ. Formations.

Yeah. You guys ever try to be a good goal? To be a good set piece? All right. Good luck, man. Let us know how it goes. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve.

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