The Ryen Russillo Podcast - The Truth about Nebraska, and Domonique Foxworth on How Tyrann Mathieu Changed the NFL 

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

Russillo gives a little context on the issue of Nebraska’s cancelled game vs. Wisconsin over COVID concerns, as well as Nebraska’s friction with the Big Ten as a whole (2:00); Before talking with Domonique Foxworth about his ESPN cover story ‘Tyrann Mathieu is changing the game’, some stories from his NFL career, and a real discussion about player empowerment (15:00). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted ‘Life Advice’ questions (1:05:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

what's up getting you ready for the weekend man i feel like a dj right now kyle you got big weekend plans not anymore not for many months what happened breakup covid happened um i guess my weekend plan will be be getting tortured by the Patriots now. That's a fun new thing I'm doing. Oh, wow. Poor guy. Not many people sharing that sympathy with you. Dominique Foxworth, former NFL corner safety, did a great piece on Tyron Matthew.

And we're just going to dig into a bunch of different stuff. You never know where it's going to go with him. A little life advice at the back end. And a little Big Ten football off the top for today's Open. But first, today's episode of the Ryan Rizzo Podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. It's brought to you by State Farm. Getting great car and home insurance from State Farm at a surprisingly great

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its A game. When you want the real deal, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Let's talk a little Nebraska. Okay. And you're thinking, all right, what's this mean? What's Rosillo up to here? Here's what we know. As we found out throughout this week, Wisconsin's head coach, Paul Christ, and their starting quarterback Mertz, who had a great opening week. And we touched on Wisconsin and their schedule. And it's like, man, you know, they got, they got kind of one scary game there and who knows.

And that's why they have such great great like the analytics crowd loves their possibilities of getting into the college football playoff but you know what they're gonna have to win two huge games and if they do win those and they're deserving of getting in there but they canceled their game against nebraska this week because according to big 10 protocols which i'm not gonna bore you to death with there's a bunch of different protocols in there uh essentially like hey if you have this many positive tests, it's your quarterback, it's the backup quarterback, it's your head coach. You know, you

have to, like, there's just, there's all these different rules that we understand with everything that's going on as we're trying to keep up with all the bad news that's out there that they went ahead and canceled the game. Now, what happened next? Well, Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports, covered college football a long time, does a great job. He wrote this piece today about how Nebraska said, said all right fine we're gonna go play tennessee

chattanooga and we met with them and they're good to go we don't want to lose out on the game and let's do this and they went back to the big 10 and the big 10 was like no and we're not doing that now what this led to which is a very predictable thing, is that since Nebraska is still a new Big Ten, not new money, but like new Big Ten, this is their 10th season, which I still think one of the great things about conference realignment and how insane that was,

and I loved being on the radio during that time because all the different rumors, all these terrible things that were going on, and I don't mean terrible in a sense, but like, you know, look, I've talked many times about the death of the big East, how much I can't stand that my man, Scotty too hotty van Pelt,

his ACC lineage. And we're like, Hey, it's big 10 Scotty. And he hates it. He hates that Maryland is in the big 10. Um, you know,

because he missed the ACC part. I don't think it still ruins his day, but we call them big 10 Scotty forever. And he hated it. Um, you had the big 12. It looked like it was going to blow up, and then it wasn't. You had the Pac-12 saying, hey, we're going to get Oklahoma and Texas. We wanted a Florida State, maybe it was going to go to the SEC. So just a lot of different stuff had been happening, and it was all happening really fast as everybody was trying to figure out. It was really musical chairs for college football. We're like, where's the best place for us to land and um one of the other things that i've always

asked about it afterwards was like was it worth it was it really worth all that i'll even remember too i'm not going to say his name because it sucks for him but he was a college football reporter who was working for us who was going on the air talking about all these latest rumors meanwhile the people who really knew what was going on were the people at the highest levels of ESPN that do the deals with the conferences. There's one guy who basically saved the Big 12, who was behind the scenes.

You'd never know who he was unless you really knew what was going on. I think the guy's a great guy. I'm not going to name him either. Some of you guys already know who this is, and it's not relevant to the story. But he was basically orchestrating saving the big 10 or excuse me, saving the big 12 through some television deals in the future. And that's what, you know, worked it out for Texas and all these different things. So the problem is, is he wasn't going to tell our

own reporter, Hey, here's what's actually going down. So our reporter, one of them was getting a ton of stuff wrong. And then I would hear like, man, I feel bad for this guy. He's got a bunch of stuff wrong, but this is big business. And we're just not going to go ahead and tell him everything we're actually going to do because there's leverage, there's negotiations and all these things going on. So it was a really weird time to be at ESPN because I love college football. Van Pelt and I would talk about it nonstop, but at the same time, the business relationships were far more important than a couple of guys on air getting their takes right. So that brings us to Nebraska because Nebraska jumped ship because they were mad that the Big 12 was catering towards Texas and the Longhorn Network, which is now whatever the

fears were and that it'd make Texas this program you'd never be able to beat. Well, that's just not the case. And Texas has a little bit of Nebraska and I'll get that to you a little bit later, but Nebraska goes to the big 10. And when they got lined up on their side of the division and you're looking at how it all lines up, you're like, man, Nebraska, like they're going to go, Hey, you know what? Like, look, it's Oklahoma, it's Texas, but you know, Ohio state. Yeah, they're good, but they weren't what they are, uh, in 2010, what they are now. But they're probably thinking, and I think a lot of Nebraska fans felt this, because Nebraska, I mean, that run with Osborne is crazy.

The three national championships, 13-0, 12-0, 11-2, 13-0. That's from 94 to 97. And then even with that, they went 9 and four with Solich in his first year, which wasn't great. But then he had him at 12 and one, 11 and two, a couple of years. But then that wasn't good enough

because it wasn't Osborne. And then Bill Callahan came in and it was kind of a mess. And then we'll get to Bo Pelini in a little bit. But let's face it, if you're a Nebraska fan, you're thinking,

okay, you know what? The big 12, you know, it's kind of top heavy. Big 10, look at where we are in the division. Like, you know, we're going to have a real chance.

Here's the thing. It hasn't worked out that way at all. Since they made the switch in 2011, that first season, the best AP ranking after the rankings are done, so at the end of the season, was 24th, and that was in the first year. They have not finished ranked since 2012 when they finished 25th now back then i used to always make a joke about nebraska that they

always were in the coaches poll no matter what they could like lose two or three games and you go through the coaches poll and be like why are they 18th again like why is every coach still voting nebraska was like always higher in the coaches poll than they were in the ap poll and it didn't really make any sense i used to go on a nebraska. I actually liked talking with those guys. They were cool. They were fair about things. And I just go, you know, the more you dig into this Bo Pelini deal, like it's auto seven wins. They don't really play that many out of conference teams. Back then they were still playing eight conference games. So four non-conference the way they basically would have four or five, maybe four is fair to say four four Big Ten wins that you go, well, it's automatic

that they're going to beat these four teams and the non-conference. So he was getting to seven, eight wins. I mean, look, Pelini went nine and four, 10 and four, 10 and four, nine and four, 10 and four, nine and four, and then out of there at nine and three. And you go, well, Bo Pelini actually did a pretty good job. They didn't beat anybody. And when they had big games, they'd get smoked in so many of them. I'm not saying they weren't competitive in any of them, but I was going through it trying to find like good big 10 ranked wins. They don't exist. And then it was terrible with Mike Riley and yes, Scott Frost is back, but it was five and seven

and bad start so far. Oh, whatever. They played Ohio state. So I'm not going to beat up on them too much. But what you got out of this was a lot of money and the money in the Big Ten is better there than anywhere else until the SEC redoes their Saturday deal, which eventually will be with ESPN. If you look at the money doled out per team in 2019, the Big Ten handed out about $55.5 million. The SEC is about $10 million behind that. The Big 12, somewhere around $40 million. The ACC is about 27 million, the PAC 12 payouts of about 32 million. So there's some differences there on some of the ACC reporting stuff. Okay. So it's more money. It's more money than they would have ever gotten with the big 12. And again, the big 12 was saved basically by one ESPN executive. Now, granted he had to get people to sign off on the whole thing. But what I find

fascinating about the story is that there's this feeling that Nebraska was turned down because they're not like real Big Ten. Or that Nebraska went ahead and tried to do their own scheduling because they're not real Big Ten. And Wetzel made the point that Missouri had one of their games. They didn't just go ahead and try to find something else. They decided to follow the SEC rules. Well, look, I'll tell you this. Nebraska feels more Big Ten than Missouri will ever feel SEC. look, I'll tell you this, Nebraska feels more Big Ten than Missouri will ever feel SEC.

So, you know, for those that resist, well, Nebraska never really felt like a Big Ten team anyway. Are they being punished? Were they told they can't do this because they're not old school Big Ten? That seems to be some of the stuff that's hinted at there. Now, I don't know if this is one of those stories we'll look back on it and go, hey, nobody even remembers what the hell happened three weeks ago after this thing. I could even make an argument that Nebraska went ahead to do everything they could to present it to the Big Ten and say, hey, this is good to go. So instead of waiting for permission, we just went ahead and organized it. This other school is in, so let's go ahead and do this. And now we're ready to go.

And yet that was frowned upon because it was like, these guys are just doing their own thing because they're not one of us. So it really depends on who the source is. And like I said, maybe this is Wetzel hinting at even more discontent, which would definitely be fair. And there's times where I can read stories or I'll hear something and be like, oh, this is just sort of a sampling of what's really going on. But then again, sometimes like, look, they come back,

they start playing football games. No one other than Nebraska fans will even remember that this happened. So you can ask yourself this if you're a Nebraska fan. Do you think you're getting screwed over here because you're not old school Big Ten? Is the Big Ten messing with you? You probably think so because, look, Nebraska fans have been kind of on one for a little while here, and I get it. You're an incredibly, incredibly passionate fan base. I would put you up there really with anybody, maybe not the numbers, but you guys really, really care. Sometimes I'm kind of concerned why you care, though, because Stuart Mandel the other day had a great tweet about Ohio State's rankings, and then Nebraska fans were mad after they got stomped for not getting more credit for being in the ratings discussion part of it. It's like, yes, you and your friends really care about Nebraska football. funny whenever we would talk about some of the conspiracies about the playoff committee and who they were picking and like the ESPN, they just want all these SEC schools in there. Actually,

we would rather had Ohio state in every single one of them because they rate almost like no one else does. So again, back to Nebraska. I think all this really means this inferiority complex, you may have and not be aware of, or you may have and be aware of your frustration with the fact that it hasn't gone the way you thought it did. And even though you're making way more money, this isn't actually the worst deal for the program because you're making all this cash. I think it comes down to a realization that when you look in the mirror and you're in Nebraska, it's never happening again for you. I'm serious.

And I'm, I've said it. I go, never as a long time. I rare to write things off. I'm rare to say this guy is incapable of ever doing this but when we talk about all these different schools and who's back and Miami has set a record for being back and not being back

Texas is probably second there Florida State won a title and played another championship game so let's give them a few more bad years but Nebraska is never going to be Nebraska of the 90s again State won a title and played another championship game. So let's give them a few more bad years. But Nebraska is never going to be Nebraska the 90s again. They just aren't. I wouldn't say

somebody's going to win at Texas eventually. USC hasn't been bad enough despite it being disappointing. There's some other programs you can pick at. But Miami, Texas are the ones that are brought up all the time. Nebraska's never doing what they did in the 90s again. They just aren't. And I think Nebraska fans probably know it,

but you don't want to admit it. And that's why all this stuff pisses you off. Are you really mad about the Big Ten not letting you play an out-of-conference game? Do you really think Wisconsin canceled it because they didn't want to play you because the coach and the quarterbacks are gone? I mean, maybe, but I mean, aren't we supposed to be taking precautions? So what's Wisconsin going to do? Get criticized because they actually were trying to do the right thing

and cancel a game because guys tested positive. I thought that's what everybody wanted. And now we're saying it's only because they didn't want to play Nebraska undermanned. I mean, yeah, sure. It's possible. I'm not ruling it out entirely, but all of the Nebraska stuff that I look at, and I'm not even mad at you. I'm just saying, I think this all stems from the realization that the recruiting is not there in the big 12. You could at least get other big 12 kids to come to you out of Texas and Oklahoma that maybe didn't get into those schools. Now they're not going to go to you. They're going to go to some smaller school in the SEC or the big 12 because the big 12 depth is better now with teams like Baylor and TCU actually getting recruits that they

weren't getting before. And now where are the big 10 kids going to go? They're going to go to Lincoln. So I don't think it's ever, I'd be shocked if it did happen again. I'm not saying having a great season or maybe even winning the Big Ten again never is a really long time, but I think a lot of the stuff that I see from Nebraska

fans about all these theories and they're doing this to us, it's really about your own frustration with this going far worse than you thought it would go over the last 10 years. Dominique Foxworth, ESPN, bunch of teams with the the NFL and I mean that in a good way so you know you already kind of looked at me like what are we talking about here you're going to talk about different transactions there's a bunch of stuff that I want to get to but I think something you should feel really proud about is your piece on Tyron Matthew Tyron Matthew's changing the game

ESPN cover story that itself is a big deal part of the undefeated as well. So I want to do some other stuff that's going on around the league, but let's start with this because it's just a great story. I remember watching Matthew at LSU and then you'd ask some of the draft people, we'd go, what do you think? Like, man, he can't really cover anybody. And then he's all pro and he clearly is this guy. So let's start first with why beyond the obvious, why him? Why'd you want to do this story? Yeah, I mean, I think it was a lot about just personal challenge, like wanting to do. I've done a couple of profiles, but I don't think I've done one really good.

And it takes a while to learn how to write. So it's part that and selecting him because I thought he was an interesting guy. And this wasn't an original angle that I wanted the piece to take. But the more research about him, the more I realized that a ton of people have written about him and they all write the same kind of story. Rags to riches, poor kid, downtrodden, kicked off of his team in college. And then there's this comeback narrative, which we all enjoy reading those stories. We enjoy watching those movies. stories. We enjoy watching those movies. Like it's a tried and true sports kind of cliche story. And I was going to do it. And then I started reading and noticed that everyone had already done it 12 times. So I really had to challenge myself to figure out another way to approach this story.

And fortunately, I guess, necessity, I guess, is the mother of invention or innovation in this case. And then it came to this just focusing on trying to do what I can do that other writers can't do. Just given my football background, I thought I could dive deep into X's and O's in a way that a lot of feature writers can't. So that's how I ended up with talking more about his impact on the field and how he was kind of the first real kind of tweener safety. And now it seems like every team needs one or is looking for one.

Okay. So why is that? I mean, I think it's the maturation of the game offensively and the changing of the rules and the more dependence on pass and smart offensive coordinators recognizing that you can create mismatches. And so when you have guys tight ends who are just as good blockers as they are receivers, you have to put in an extra DB to guard him, and then they just run at the smaller DB. And then you put in a linebacker to stop the run, and then they attack those linebackers in space. So I think you get to a point where you need guys who are athletic enough and smart enough, frankly, to be comfortable and flexible enough to be comfortable in a bunch of different positions.

And you notice, you see that around the league, Tyron Matthew was coming into the league and didn't get drafted high because people said they didn't know what position he was going to play. And now it seems like that liability has become an asset. Yeah, because when you think of, I don't know how much you watched him in college, you went back and looked at how how was it that you know he goes that late and he was this dynamic guy that was a heisman favorite going in and i mean he just he just did things in the college field that you go

okay this guy's just you know he's just one of those guys like peter warwick on defense peter warwick's always like my standalone guy that i think of where i go he's just different than everybody else like how come he's doing all this stuff and nobody else can do this stuff that's a hell of an example because Peter Ward went to the league it was a disappointment yeah yeah right because it really wasn't and I think it's funny too because I loved him so much and I probably talk about him too much but he actually still had some decent years in the league and it's just well okay yeah but you were you were like a completely different level in college and it's just well okay yeah but you were you were like a completely different level in college and it's just so funny that it didn't work out for him but with Matthew we'd see it we'd see

the impact he had on the college game but it was across the board like what were some of the things maybe that you understand better than we do where personnel people would go yeah maybe a mid-round pick like what were the problems there so I'm not going to pretend like I was smarter than them back then um I don't know maybe I would have fallen into the same traps but I was I was playing when he was drafted so I wasn't um like deep into or no I wasn't actually I think I was in business school when he was drafted so I wasn't like deep into analyzing it so I don't remember what I thought about him as a player I just remember he was outstanding and made a bunch of big plays but to your point about Peter like, I know he had some okay years, but the man, like, we called moves Peters.

Like, I remember in middle school, like, when somebody got crossed up on the basketball court or got shaken like Barry Sanderson would do people, you say, look at those Peters. So, like, there is no way that he was – I mean, there is no way that he was I mean there's no way that he wasn't a disappointment in the league because I thought he was like the best like I fell in love with Florida State as a as a middle schooler because of Peter Warrick but I know that wasn't a question you asked but I don't care we can talk about Peter Warrick

you know why you know why I could do this and I don't care that we're getting derailed here a little bit because I was I was texting my man Chris Long about this. And I said, you know, thinking about Deion now, Deion Sanders, to really appreciate how special he is, you have to see what's happened since he's left. Because no one can do what he did. And he would run slow on purpose, bait you, and then know you'd never throw.

And then if he had the ball, he was gone. And I, it's not that it's someone is the best of all time, but it reminds me a little bit of what I see with Aaron Donald. Like, how is it that Aaron Donald can just chuck two, 300 pound men out of his way? Like we've never seen, there was a play against the bears and it doesn't show up in the stat sheet, which is very cliche, but there was a play where they were trying to run this like crossing action. And he blew through, I think the center and the right guard like a like a saloon doors just flipped him out of the way and you go okay all right aaron donald's the best defensive player in the league he's going to go down as one of the all-time greats but how is it that nobody else for decades can actually do this

like how is it no other human is capable of doing and i think of dion the exact same way because as great as some of these corners have been, you know, look, there's some really good players. We both get this, but nobody's Dion. Nobody's Dion. That's just something like I always kind of think of, like, how long is that list? And that list shouldn't ever be like more than 10 guys in all the sports. I wish I could answer that question.

I don't know why it happens that way, but I think that you aren't completely derailing us, don't know why it happens that way but i think that that you aren't completely derailing us because tyron matthew is similar in that case where there are people who do um as far as dion's concern or anybody who was like the first to do something there are people who do it as well as them afterwards and it becomes more common and you become more used to it but the thing that makes them special is they did it first so So now if you take Deion in his prime and drop him in the league today, he'd be one of the best corners in the league. I'm not sure that he would necessarily be

as much better than them as he was than the guys, his peers, his contemporaries when he was in the league then. So I just say that to say that those guys, they set a precedent and they kind of set a new bar and they make people comfortable with taking chances and doing different things. And guys grow up watching them and modeling their game after that.

And we see that with like the NBA. I know you're a big basketball guy. Like the way that these guys can fucking shoot now is mind blowing. It's like mind blowing. And people, young people don't understand that. When we watch basketball games, when we were coming up, it was not a foregone conclusion that an open man was going to hit a 20 20 foot shot now they're shooting them from the damn sticker it's like that stuff happens in this in the way that we think about steph curry now they're going to be people who shoot like him in the future but we're never going to have that same feeling as we had when steph first hit the league i think the same thing is true with some of these guys like aaron donald there'll be somebody else to play like aaron donald at some point but uh i

don't know when yeah i mean it's something that happens though is that am i am i wrong no no you're right you're right i mean this sounds like a dumb thing that that's a comparison but it is it's a lot like skateboarding or snowboarding or any of those guys do that stuff where you go okay this guy just did a 720 holy shit and then so the next guy's like well let me try something and then everybody else sees the guy do something no one else has done before and next thing you know we have guys doing tricks that no one would have ever thought of was even possible and so steph i almost included in this this text story that i was on about this but then i go you know but steph may have started i mean steph was so stupid from 30 feet that that I started thinking it had to be a little fluky,

and he was going to eventually have a season where he came back to normal. I was worried about it. But then between Dame and Harden and some of these other guys, this is now an acceptable shot that enough guys are hitting. So he can be a pioneer, but he hasn't separated himself from the rest of his peers over the entire course of his career like a Dion or a Donald. Because I would still think, look, you know better than I do. You played the freaking position.

I don't mean I know better, first of all. Yeah, but I'd almost push back on the Deion thing. You said he'd still be one of the best. That's far below a transcendent, easily the best corner that you'd want nothing to do with. You think it would be different now because guys are faster? I don't get it. No, no.

I think there are guys, and maybe today nfl is the wrong way to put it but i'm saying before deon sanders and maybe my age has something to do with it but prior to deon sanders we didn't talk about corners like that that wasn't a thing that we cared about deon sanders made it a marquee position and then more good athletes went in and started playing that position and playing it well so like you look at the history of the game prior to Dion there was nobody like Dion after Dion I can name several corners that I think were as good or as impactful they may not be as as well remembered as we remember Dion because Dion was the first to do it and Dion was special personality wise and all that stuff but like Revis at his peak was just as cold like um Champ at his peak

I was out there for his best year of his career I played opposite him in that moment when I think they threw at him like 20 times the whole season and that motherfucker had eight interceptions like it was it was crazy like I was I love that shit I was a rookie starting opposite him so they weren't throwing at him. They're like, let's go at this third-round pick rookie on the other side. And every now and then, a quarterback would just get confused or something and forget his left from his right and throw it over to him. Every time he broke it up or intercepted it, it was incredible. So that's the point I'm making is now I was probably wrong,

a bit hyperbolic in saying that Deion would be one of the best if we put him in the league today. He'd probably be the best if we put him in the league today. He'd probably be the best if we put him in the league today. But my point is, there was a before Deion and then after Deion. His influence, I think, is what is more commendable to anything. And to tie it back to the Tyron Matthew pieces, I was talking about how good Tyron was and how important he's been to his team. And then I looked at he was first team all pro last year as a defensive back

and second team as a safety. And then I looked at he was first team all pro last year as a defensive back and second team as a safety. And then I thought that was a testament to how good he was. But the real testament to how good he was was the other guys who were first team all pro were also do it all Tyron Matthew disciples, little badgers. And like I thought that was more impressive to me as far as his influence, Because it's like, no, before this, we sent guys to the Pro Bowl and all pro guys who played traditional safety. Now the guys who go are guys who are, in some ways, better than Tyron Matthew,

but they didn't start doing this. The league didn't start looking for players like this, didn't start showcasing players like this until after Tyron Matthew. So you're somebody who comes in a corner and then, you know, I don't know what your snap count was, obviously years removed from it, but what happened when they moved you to safety? Was it that they didn't think you could cover?

Or did they think, hey, no, we can use these a bunch? Like, what was that like? Because again, it's the norm now because they just have a million defensive backs out there. But I think back when you're there, you're like, corners didn't want to be like, I don't want to be a safe i'm a corner so yeah i was that was in my first contract with the um with the broncos and so i was my rookie year i wasn't supposed to start we had some injuries i ended up starting way more games than than i was supposed

to and then the following season i ended up playing a lot me and um uh darren williams i don't know if you remember him he was drafted ahead of me yeah and he and i were sharing a lot of time and then he got killed in the offseason after that second year so they went and signed dray dray bligh and so then it was me dray and um champ. And Dre's really good, right? I mean, Dre was around a long time. Yeah, I mean, Dre is really good. I felt like I was better than him at the time, and he was great. But, I mean, it's all ego and all that stuff at the time. But they started him at corner opposite Champ, and they were like,

look, you're one of the best DBs we have. I was playing the nickel, and they were like, we want to get all our best dbs on the field at the same time do you think you play safety at 170 pounds um my my answer i was like 175 my answer should have been no but like i'm a football player and i'm stupid and they were like and i was like yeah so i ended up playing a bunch of safety and i think i played nickel a bunch before that so they saw that I was like unafraid to like tackle and contact or whatever so it actually I mean the physical part of it wasn't that difficult it was playing safety is a lot easier than playing corner honestly when you're around somebody like champ were you close with champ like I can imagine you could be team you still yeah I talked to him last week, actually.

Alright, so give me the story you tell your buddies about Champ Bailey. Your favorite champ story. Feel free to expose us to a couple if you want. Sure. No, there's plenty of them. I should text him and find out how angry he would be if I shared some of them.

Let's see. I'm not stalling because I don't have a story i'm stalling because i'm trying to find one that is appropriate um well i can just focus on how incredible he was as a player like that he would um we'd have meetings and stuff in the morning and or even in training camp we have meetings whatever we have practice and um champ would go to his um his truck in the in the parking lot sometimes before practice and the rest of us are like getting ready warmed up and do all the things that we need to do and champ would go take a nap in his truck with his stuff on and then um i guess he would have an alarm set or something and get out of his truck, which was right next to the practice field and walk right on to the practice field.

Just as practice was beginning and then proceed to shut everybody the fuck down and then go back to his truck after practice and roll right on out. That was a great champ story. All right. Here's another one. My rookie year, we started. Right on out. That was a great champ story. All right, here's another one. My rookie year, we started, we had a great season. We're 13 and three with the Broncos. And we went down to San Diego for the last game of the year. We beat them. That was the game that Drew Brees got that injury. And also, and then I go from, and champ and I are pretty close at this point so I go back to the locker room and champ's like you want to go to Vegas we're in San Diego I'm like sure I guess I'm

thinking that we got to go home or whatever because that's what we do you got to fly back with the team and he was like nah I'm gonna go tell Mike that we're going to Vegas I was like all right so Mike Shanahan's the coach. He goes up to Mike and I'm not with him. So he goes to Mike and then he comes back and was like, grab your stuff. We're going to slip out the back. So I walk right out the back door. A car picks us up, takes us to the private airport. We get on a private jet. So we just won that game, clinched the division. We got a division championship hats and t-shirts. I'm a rookie who started opposite Champ in this situation. We just won the game. We go out the back, get in a private jet, land in Vegas. A limo picks us up from the private jet airport. And then we go straight from there to TAL, the nightclub they take us right up we don't even take our stuff to the room because champ has that all taken care of we go right up to the rooftop and we are have a table

one side this is 05 i guess um it's new year's eve uh last game of year's new year's eve so on one side of our table is um britney spears in 2005 so it's a different britney than britney everyone knows now so it's like it's a real big deal and on the other side was the prime minister of um a caribbean country um you remember lisa ray you probably don't the movie players club i should google it but lisa ray was the actor in the movie's Players Club. And she like married one of the prime ministers from one of the Caribbean countries. And he's at a table next to us and fireworks are going off as it strikes New Year's Eve. And that's the moment when I'm like, what is life like? What am what am I doing? How did I end up here? Like I'm just a tiny kid from Baltimore, third-round pick, but I am right now celebrating New Year's Eve

after starting opposite the best corner I've ever seen and winning AFC West Championship. It was just incredible. And then the night went on for lots of other stories that I'll tell you when you're not recording. All right, that sounds fair. Because I have to imagine at that point, although I don't know what the texting situation would be in 05.

Oh, it wasn't good. I think I had a sidekick, though. Do you remember those? Oh, yeah. That was hot. I was on AIM. I was on AIM. Yeah, that's right.

Do you remember your handle? Yeah, I do. At Shutdown Fox. Nope. Yeah, that's right. Do you remember your handle? Yeah, I do. At shutdownfox. Nope. So my email all the way through high school was NFLbound. And when I first got to Maryland, I was one of the guys who left high school early. So I started at Maryland when I was supposed to be a senior in high school. So that gave me a trash number, 36. early so i started at maryland when i was supposed to be a senior year senior in high school so that gave me a trash number 36 so i was nfl bound 36 what was it like going to college early i mean

it's hard enough i mean you're going to play ball but you that must have been awkward it was awful and awesome but i have i still have it i have to find it but my first id like it was i looked the picture they took was after like two weeks of school because it was mid-year so um there are no there's no infrastructure set up at that time the year prior philip rivers did it and then my high school coach i was a really good student so my high school coach was like you know you're Like, you can figure this out. And so I called the coach at Maryland. He was like, yeah, we got a scholarship.

So it was like in a matter of like two months, I went from BSing around as a senior in high school to practicing against men and taking college classes. And then we did the ID stuff, and I look completely disheveled and beaten down. And I remember my first like midterm grades. So we get mid, we get midway through the semester and we're doing spring ball morning workouts, 5am practicing in the evening, blah, blah, working hard.

I'm getting my ass kicked because I should be in high school. And I was taking an art history class, which I thought was easy because I just go sit in a lecture. They put up slides. It's like 100 people in a lecture. They put up slides and then I go home. And then I get to middle of semester and they're like, hey, here's a midterm. And I'm like, what the fuck? What? Who? What? a what? A who what? And then the professor puts up slides and you have to tell based on the characteristics of the art, what year it was from and what culture it was from. And like the whole first half of the semester, I'm sitting in class, just not taking notes, just watching. Oh, college is easy. And I got destroyed. I failed that. I ended up getting a C in the class,

got pulled it out. But that was like one of those moments where I was just, I don't belong destroyed. I failed that. I ended up getting a C in the class. I pulled it out, but that was like one of those moments where I was just, I don't belong here. I don't know what's going on. This is not going to work out. Let me think of other careers other than football because this ain't good.

I don't know. Like, I don't want to ask it in the way where, because I know you're so interested in so many different things, okay? And it's weird when we find out like, ooh, this athlete, he's really cultured, and it's like, I don't want to ask it in the way where, cause I know you're so interested in so many different things. Okay. And it's weird when we find out like, Ooh, this athlete, he's really cultured, you know, and it's like, what's wrong with him? You know, I think you had to deal with it a little bit at ESPN sometimes too. Cause it was like, wait a minute. It's almost a lot like

the story with Tyron Matthew. Like what do we do with Foxwood? But do you find yourself drawn to the person that has all these unique interests or somebody like a Matthew who comes from a completely different background than you do you go into your story him going back to New Orleans he's facetiming with gang members walking around in the street and talking to him do you find yourself more drawn to the guy that fights through this is that part of the attraction to him beyond just his ability no I mean I mean, I think I'm drawn to unique. And I think we get, all of us get so, and it's human nature, so I'm not blaming people necessarily,

but we get so caught up in trying to silo people and typecast people like this guy fits in this category. He's one of these guys. And it happens so often. So I think everybody is different to some degree and i think some players are comfortable with sharing their differences and some players are more interested in playing the character like the reality show character that we think that they are and i think more than anything it was that tyrant scene when i talked to him

he seemed comfortable with showing who he was or showing a truer version of who he was because none of us are completely honest. We all are trying to convince people a little bit. Coming to that realization, being honest with myself, is that I really want people to think I'm smart. And I do lots of things to make sure that people are aware that I'm smart. And maybe it's a pushback against the the jock stuff and like this whole reason why I wanted to go to a

high level business school is like just so that when I'm around these these rich-ass white people that I live around now that when when we get to um we get to that moment of conversation that I assume that they're like hey you're a former football player and they're judging me and I'm assuming that I'm dumb or whatever that's that's a driving force that I can drop they're like, Hey, you're a former football player. And they're judging me. And I'm assuming that I'm dumb or whatever. That's, that was a driving force that I can drop on them at some point. Like, yeah.

Yeah. HBS. Yeah. Yeah. 2015. That's where I went there then. I'm. And that's Hofstra,

right? Yeah, exactly. Hofstra. It's Harvard. It's Harvard for those that aren't paying attention. Oh yeah. But you've got to do the acronym or,

or hit them, hit them with the, I went to a small school in Cambridge, one of those moves. But yeah, so I don't know. I'm a little bit off topic, but the point is, I think none of us are completely honest

about who we want to be. And some of us are more comfortable being honest. And Tyron, when I was talking to him, I asked him what, and I put this in the piece, what was it about him or what did he think that people would say about him? Because it was unique when I talked him what, and I put this in the piece, what was it about him or what did he think that people would say about him? Because it was unique when I talked to everybody.

They just talk about how great a guy he is, how much they love him. And I was like, that was just weird because I was asking about Tyron Matthews, a football player, and no one went to how good a football player he was first. So I asked him and he said sensitive. said sensitive and I was like yeah and that caught me like just being that comfortable in this era where I feel like we coming off of the last dance where we glorify Jordan and we glorify the the mamba mentality and Tom Brady yelling at people um it was interesting to me that he was like what I what I want to be is thought of as sensitive and available to my teammates. And that just caught me, caught my attention. So it's not necessarily about any one type of guy as much as it's about the

type of guy who is comfortable with showing a more honest representation of who he actually is. You bring up a really good point because Matthew wasew's kicked off lsu um and basically it's all connected to weed and yeah you know sometimes i'll hear stories about different guys testing positively some of these schools i'll be like wait a minute what happened and be like well he tested positive 13 times and i'm not talking about matthew like we had to suspend him for a game and you're like wait what but then again i also don't want to be like a narc going oh you know you have to set a standard. What is there?

That's not a red flag and you bring it up. Like in today's sensibilities in just a few years, usually stuff doesn't move that fast, but just in a few years, it's kind of looked at like, Oh wait, what was the problem with him? You're like,

Oh, that's what it was. And now you're kind of like, Oh, maybe, maybe people, well, they did,

they made too big of a deal. And now he's sort of accepted it. Even if you're against it, you're, you're aware that, look, I go to the beach in California and it's on. It doesn't matter. I mean, that part I'll even say, like, I feel like a loser where I'll think, like, is this cool? Like kids run around making sandcastles and you're just allowed to just blaze.

And, you know, it's not a big deal. But with all of the guys that you've played with, you know, I've always had kind of this thought where I go, sometimes guys get caught up in stuff and it doesn't mean they're bad guys. Because I think there's plenty of guys that never get caught doing anything and they're way worse than sometimes the guys that get caught doing stuff. If you ran a team, how do you think you would be about red flags for players? I mean so first like I was I was duped by dare personally like the first time

I drank I was 34 or 33 maybe and the first time I tried any like marijuana based substance was a year or two after that. And so like I completely bought into the hype that it was going to make me a worse athlete. Even when I got to the league and I saw some of the best players that I'd ever seen be completely comfortable blazing the night before the game blazing day of practice and and

then go out there and be better than me i still was like i don't know i ain't fucking with it because that's not for me so hey real quick interjection does that mean that when you were vegas new year's eve you didn't drink when you were a champ no i didn't i did not drink. I had one drink in college because I promised my teammate if we beat Florida State my freshman year, like we beat Florida State, I'll drink. So I had some Remy Martin, like a glass of Remy Martin my senior year when we beat them. And to this day, he says I was so drunk, but obviously he was incredibly drunk and I was fine. Yeah, I would think one. By the way, you have something in common with another Harvard man.

That's Teddy Roosevelt. I'm through almost volume one. So I'm very early in the process. Cause I had some holes in my Teddy Roosevelt game and he got shit faced as a student at Harvard very early on. And then he says in his, his diary, he's like, you know, it was classic Teddy Roosevelt where it's like a million words to explain that. Okay.

You were shit and hung over. And he just was like, it is not the way I intend to be or something like that. It was perfect. So you and Teddy Roosevelt, good company. I like I like classic Teddy Roosevelt. The fact that that phrase came out of your mouth is amazing. Oh, classic Teddy Roosevelt. Well, I'm in the midst of volume one right now.

So he's on the top of mind. Well, I'm reading books, too, because I'm smart, too. I'm reading a book called volume one right now. So he's on the top of mind. Well, I'm reading books too, because I'm smart too. I'm reading a book called Telephone right now, a novel. I just finished. You know what you should read? Actually, you shouldn't read it, but it's a good book. It's a good flex when you want to make sure people know that you're smart. It's called The Tangled Tree.

It's about horizontal gene transfer by this scientist this scientist guy named quaman but anyway it's just me i'm already impressed even if this isn't real i'm impressed already just don't have it just don't have it upside down when you enter the arena before a playoff oh how dare you talk about the king i know um you asked a question a while ago that I never answered. Sorry. Red flags in evaluating players. Okay. So, I mean, I think you got to come to terms with there are some red flags or whatever you want to call them that you're going to be comfortable with. Yeah, and there's others that we're not being dismissive of the more serious ones

just to throw that out there. Right. Yeah, and I think that it's – I'm trying not to take the easy way, which I'm trying to do this more in my takes as I'm getting more chances to do that, where it's like there's an easy stance to be like, oh, I would be hard line, no red flags, or there's nobody who's ever had an issue. Like, that's an easy thing to do as a person in media. I can virtue signal how good a person I am. in the media, I can virtue signal how good a person I am, but I don't think that's how it actually be because like, I recognize that my job is not to field a team of Boy Scouts as much as it's to win. So I think that the line I would draw would be not necessarily a line on red flags that

I wouldn't go for as much as it's about trying to get to know the player and have some flexibility on that. Because I don't think I'm hesitant to say that I would draw the line anybody who did this I would never let on my team because I don't think that's true like there's plenty of people who have done pretty terrible things or got caught doing terrible things that I feel like I would find a way to try to support them and that's how I would justify putting that great talent on my team. So the people like AB is somebody I think I would probably draw the line with, not because, and this is probably the wrong thing to say, because obviously the things that he's accused of are reprehensible and I hate those things. But as a general manager of a professional football team, I, or owner of a team, I would be concerned about the image that we present.

So if I thought that that wasn't a problem, but I would stay away from A.B. because it seems like he is not rational. And that's what scared me more than anything. It's like that 30 million dollars that he just set on fire in Oakland. Like anybody who can do that is somebody who can do anything. liar in Oakland, like anybody who can do that is somebody who can do anything. And obviously he's going to work hard and make plays, but like, I just wouldn't feel like I could trust somebody who I felt like wasn't going to respond to, to reason and logic in the same way that, that the rest of our team would, you know?

Yeah. It's almost like it's not, and we'll find out what happens with this latest case. As I've said earlier about any of the stuff off the field, I never feel comfortable saying, okay, well, I know exactly what, because we don't know. We don't know. Yeah, we don't. But when it's the pattern, and as you said,

it's like, well, when's the next thing happening? So that's one where I'd agree with. You just go, hey, I know it's about winning games and getting guys out there, but he's not even out there because you don't know what the next thing is. Can I ask you about a couple of things going on now? Because listening to, um, some of my Boston friends talk, uh, that are in the media, one of the things that came up of all the things now, cause they're just not used to this two and four shit, uh, Stefan Gilmore and the plays. I don't know. Have you seen some of these clips that are floating out there now

where people are pretty convinced he's decided to wait this out? Look, it's kind of hard to defend. He's taken himself out of plays. How often does this happen, especially when you're talking about somebody like him who's expecting a big paycheck and deserves it,

especially when you look at some of the salaries that we've seen, like a Jalen Ramsey type contract. And Wingland's not going to pay that. They did it with Rivas for that one year, which I think still surprised some people when they grabbed him. They're just not the type of team. Even though they went out and got Gilmore in free agency, that's normally what they did. There's maybe like five guys in Belichick's

entire run that he's done that in free agency. But now it's turning into all these guys are quitting and somebody like Gilmore is deciding to protect himself. Yeah, haven't seen those those clips um so the question is how often do guys do that like I I to be honest with you it's hard for me to say like I was fortunate enough to never be on a bad team and I know the Patriots are like, not completely dead yet. But even when I got traded down to the Falcons on Matt Ryan's rookie year, we thought we were going to be bad. Everyone thought we were going to be bad, but we ended

up making the playoffs. And prior to that, I was in the playoffs or in playoff contention all the way into the end of the season. So I've never been on a team like that. And I never remember noticing. So I can speak for myself. In that contract year, I had probably the best year of my career in Atlanta as far as just shutting people down and playing really well. And I remember Eddie Royal, I was playing against the Broncos, and Eddie Royal came and cracked back on me when Cutler was scrambling. Um, he hit me in the chest and I got up and was

coughing, coughing up blood. And I kept playing because like, I'm a football idiot. And you're like, these are my guys. He's my family. This is why I'm out here. But, and I remember thanking Eddie for not hitting me in the head which is a weird thing after you get lit up like that to go thank the guy and i was like yeah i appreciate it because it wasn't illegal back then to do that and he chose to hit me in the chest and make my lungs bleed or whatever the hell happened what did he say back to you um i don't remember if he said anything if he just gave me a head nod so i i was on that team so i got traded week one so i was on the team with them the broncos and i was complaining about not starting

about being behind dre bligh and i ended up getting myself traded because i was going to my contract year and it was like i knew like it's my last chance but it's my only chance to get paid and i was like look I'm better than Dre. I didn't say his name specifically, but I think the media knew I thought I was better. And they would ask me questions like, how many teams do you think you could start on in the NFL at corner? And I was like 32. And I would say shit like that all training camp. And then eventually Mike Shanahan, one time the rumors started, I was getting traded and he was like,

nah, we're not going to trade you. And then like two weeks later, he called me up to his office and I still appreciate he did one thing. Really. I mean, I appreciate a bunch of things that he did, but one thing was when I got traded,

he called me up to the office and he was like, look, Kansas city wants you and atlanta wants you they're offering the same compensation um so i'll let you choose which he obviously didn't think i was that good if he was willing to trade me in division in the vision yeah wow he's like fine we'll bust your ass uh for a couple more years and um kansas city offered an extension and atlanta was like no you just play out your your tender and be a free agent after this year so i was like yeah send me down to sorry ass atlanta and and i'll try to figure it out but yeah i don't know i'm i don't know why

i'm rambling so much because you asked me a question at some point and we ended up way off course talking about my trade history oh that's quitting on teams yeah yeah no this is fine this story the story was was about like in those situations like logically i would have told myself to not go back out there and then i remember in the playoff game um we lost to we should have won but we lost to, we should have won, but we lost to Arizona in our wildcard playoff game. And I remember at a certain point in that game, something happened where I had to come off the field for a play or two. And I was playing really well in the game. And then I remember thinking at that time, like,

don't let something happen. Cause like I'd already put together 16 of the best games I played. And I was like, and there weren't a ton of corner free agents coming out that year. So I was like one of the best free agent corners coming out. And I remember thinking like the fuck, if something happens right now, like everything that you work for is up in smoke.

But it crossed my mind at the moment, but I took my dumb ass back out there and finished playing because, like, that's what it is. So I'm just saying that to say, if Stephon Gilmore is doing this to protect himself or whatever, I understand the sentiment. Like, it's only logical. You keep saying, though, like,

and I know you're doing it in a self-deprecating way, you know, my dumb ass, how I bring myself out there. But, you know, that's kind of the point of all this, though. Isn't it supposed to be? And it's not just, you know, it in a self-deprecating way um you know my dumb ass or i bring myself out there but you know that's that's kind of the point of all this though isn't it supposed to be and it's and it's not just you know it's all sports in a way but i think the football mentality is is special that i think it's shifted from you're stupid if you're selfish where again i'm not somebody who played in anything anybody cared about but i still admire the guys like you or like a mark schlaer who who I got to know at ESPN. Like I remember when the concussion settlement came out.

I don't know if we're going to agree or disagree here. But, you know, I was like, hey, did you take part in any of that? And I just want to know. And he goes, look, because I had a million surgeries. He's like, concussion thing for me wasn't a huge deal. He's like, I made a great living. And I've been hit up by lawyers every week forever because they're all circling, and I just didn't think it was right.

And I was like, oh, wow. But I could see other athletes being like, hey, you're an idiot. Like these guys, the owners, the league, they did all this shady shit. They hit it all. Like, screw it. And there was another former player who was like, hey, we won today. And I was like, oh, you were part of the settlement? And I was like, did you get it?

And he's like, no. And he's like, but damn right I was going to fight. You know what I mean? So it was hard to tell either guy he was wrong but i do think it's i don't know if it's just i hate to just do the default oh social media and all this stuff but it feels like with athletes now it's it's accepted to be selfish about stuff where if you go out there like i thought the point was to always have everybody's back and compete and care. And maybe it's the same and we just hear about it more now, but I admire any of the guys that are like, Hey, you know, look, I'm signed up. This is my job. And I got

to have my teammates back because if a couple of us decide to mail it in, then we're all screwed. Right. No, I mean, I understand that. And i think that that is still commendable but uh in defense of like the the media and social media and the people who who would applaud the selfishness is like i like this environment better as because a lot of and like the open-mindedness environment now where we're like hearing guys out like we're not even lumping every athlete into the same boat is what you're saying not even that it's open-minded as much as is even if the pendulum has gone the other way where we like root for selfishness for athletes and even if i'm i'm not sure that i believe that's the case but even if that is the case i like that environment better because uh i think it creates

a safe place for players to do what is logical and what is in their best interest so as much as like i learned very quickly after high school and college uh or during college i learned like it's a business and it's a cliche that people say but you figure out quickly we won we the Maryland was I think five and six the year before I got there the year I got there we lost one game and won the AC championship that offseason coach Friesen signed a 10 million dollar extension and we got sweatshirts and that's when I was like this is this is not great like we got to figure it out and then like we went on on and a bunch of great players had a ton of injuries and didn't play professionally and don't have health insurance. So one of my best friends I still talk to to this day is going to have to have

a knee replacement at some point. And since he technically wasn't an employee, he has no workers' compensation, and that's a preexisting condition. So he's going to have to pay out of the pocket for knee replacement because he had multiple knee surgeries at Maryland and shoulder surgery, finger surgeries. And he had those

surgeries and at the same time, like Maryland's benefit from it, the coach's benefit from it. Blah, blah, blah. So I say all that to say that I like now that people are quick to cape up for the selfish athlete because everything that's happening around them feels like so selfish and and we've come to accept that selfishness so like I yeah on the college level I can't counter you on that but I mean yeah in the NFL like

that's what the money's for right right I I agree that that's what the money's for, right? Right. I agree that that's what the money's for. However, I mean, having – the money's not great for everybody. The money's not great for most people, and I know how ridiculous that sounds. you've been around enough athletes to know that if this football thing don't work out, you got a long way to go before you can make reasonable money elsewhere. So I started studying for business school that year. I got traded to Atlanta because I learned this ain't going to work out. Let's figure this out because I'm going to have to do something different. So like I would have been out of the league with a couple hundred thousand

dollars, which is plenty of money with no real prospects for a career after that. And I think that's a hard thing to, to come to that realization in that moment. And, and understand that you've traded all of the other avenues and closed off so many other avenues in your life to chase this one dream. And there are a ton of reasons why I guess you could say that it's okay, but I think there are more reasons to point to. And I know this is a hard argument for you to, for me to make. I think you are one of the people that can understand this,

but like the way that the labor unions have gone and the way the negotiations and CBAs have gone, like, it is not a home run necessarily just to make it to the league. And so that's why when players make selfish decisions to make sure that they get to that point like I feel like I can understand that because it's not only a decision for them like the the house my parents live in the schools my kids go to the the foreclosure that I pulled aunts and uncles out of, like that was all riding on it. So if in my contract year, if I started feeling something a little tweak in my ankle and at that moment,

I say, nah, fuck it. You guys, good luck. I got to say, got to protect myself. Then people look at me like you're terrible. But if I'm like, nah, chill out. I got to be able to take care of my parents chill out i gotta be able to take care of my parents i gotta be able to take care of my kids i gotta be able to take care of my aunts and uncles i got like that's so it's like you're it's pulling two different teams i guess you're thinking because you're not just thinking about your teammates on the field you're thinking about like your teammates for life that was really corny and cliche but you know what i mean no and it's probably the

best job anybody's done for getting i think probablyny and cliche but you know what i mean no and it's probably the best job anybody's done for getting i think probably people listening going you know that makes a lot of sense but you're never going to win because they're going to go hey you're a pro athlete it's not your fault that you know you have to be better with your money which isn't entirely fair because communities it's not even community-based it's family-based like look i support a lot of people in my family i do and you know, you know, they may surprise me. Like, wait a minute. What?

How's that work? I mean, like, look, it's not. I can't generalize. You're not rich because you're white? What's going on? I thought all you white guys was balling. I'll tell you right now, there's there's a as I've been over throughout this podcast numerous times, there's a there's a long financial gap in there for a long time. So what happens is, is there's going to be more people that relate to the story you didn't tell, right? And there's just not going to be enough people that can relate to that story. Cause

they're going to say, well, whatever you made a couple hundred grand, you should be good. And it's like, okay, but wait, now, if I'm starting at zero again at 27, 28 years old, um, this is great that I have this in the bank, but I'm not going to be making this kind of money, um, immediately. And, you know, you can say, Oh, everybody can just go into broadcasting. It doesn't work that way. It just doesn't. There's not enough broadcasting jobs and not everybody is good at it. And there's, um, yeah. And if you don't have a name necessarily, it's going to be a lot harder, but I just think, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to bore the listeners necessarily with all of this stuff, but it's. Yeah, no, I, I, that be a lot harder, but I just think, yeah, I don't know. I don't want to bore the listeners necessarily with all of this stuff,

but it's. Yeah, no, I, I, that was a really like intent, but it's just, I even I'll admit there's just moments where I kind of push back. Cause I think sometimes we have to go, okay, yeah, that's what you did. And then it didn't work out. And now you have challenges ahead of you. Like other people have challenges ahead of them. Um, unfortunately too often I,

I speak to my own industry cause it's the one I understand the most, but, um, you know, it, it'll be like, yeah, actually let's, let's, we can share this a little bit. Cause you and I were talking about the writing part of it and I'll notice like writer Twitter is, is sometimes worse than like sports Twitter because it's incredibly frustrating process. You put all this time in, it's your thoughts, you're opening up. I mean, it's, it's hard to show you, right? It's even harder to read your friend's writing. Cause you're like, Oh my God, this is really bad. What do I say to this person? And again, I'm not saying that from my own, like I'm very, um, I think in check of, of what I'm, where I'm at right now in this part of the industry for me,

but I'll see people complain like, Oh, I wrote this show and it's been so hard and no one's picked up my show or I haven't sold a script and I go, well, okay, but you knew this was really hard. I knew it was really hard. And so you can bitch about it and maybe you're venting a little bit, but then there comes a time where it's like, all right, but you know, you pick something that was very difficult. And for athletes, it's like, yeah, you pick something that there's going to be a chance. There's a real big challenge in front of you in your 20s. Right. And I'm not saying that anybody should should abide the complaining. I'm just saying that they are trying to avoid those bad outcomes.

So, you know, I get it. Yeah. Right. So to me, they're not walking away saying this would the NFL did me bad. It was terrible. The guys who are doing things that you might consider selfish are like, you know what, I'm not gonna let me I'm not gonna let them do me like they're doing other people. I'm gonna take care. So that's, to me, it feels more proactive than anything. And I could understand people being like, you had this great opportunity and you squandered it. But they're like, No, I'm not gonna let them ruin this this for me. And to use the writer's analogy is it's not the guy in the coffee shop or the girl in a coffee shop complaining about no one picking up their script. To me, this is the guy who is doing something who's like looking up people's emails on the dark web to get personal emails. Like it's someone who's going above and beyond to be doing something that other people might think is a little bit unseemly,

but they're like, you know what? I'm going to make this shit work any way that I can. I'm gonna make sure I get this in front of whomever and the best way I can. And if some people look at me and say, this is the wrong way to do it, fuck it.

I'm not going to miss my chance. Hey, everybody check out his piece again, cover story has been a magazine. It's a, it's a big piece. Again, cover story, ESPN Magazine. It's a big deal. And, you know, I'm pumped you'll have him on. And, you know, look, we'll talk again soon, all right? Appreciate it, brother. All right.

He's at Foxworth24. Thanks, man. Talk soon. Not that long ago, going out with friends was a little too complicated. Used to worry about where you go what you'd look like and who you'd invite but now getting together for beer with your closest friends isn't so complicated these days it actually feels more like it should you could just be yourself with your friends maybe that's the way it always should be and

as the original light beer miller light has always believed in this. That's what Miller Time is all about. I remember just recently, true story, true story, went to visit some family members the other night. The guy who I didn't know that well walked up to me and said, hey, how about a cold one? You guys want to guess what it was? It was a Miller Lite. I know that shocks you. I know you're like, wait, was it going to be something? No, it was a Miller Lite. So then guess what we did? We went outside.

We watched a fire. True story. And man, I don't know what goes better. Boots, work boots and a fire or a Miller Lite and a fire. In a socially distant world, enjoying a Miller Lite with your favorite people looks different for everyone, but staying connected is just as important. Miller Time for me is staring at a friend and saying nothing and knowing everything. That sounds right to me. Kyle knows.

Miller Lite, great taste, only 96 calories and 3.2 carbs. However, you and your friends are enjoying Miller time. You can have the original Lite beer delivered by going to MillerLite.com forward slash RR and find the delivery options near you. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. you want details bye i drive a ferrari 355 cabriolet what's up i have a ridiculous house in the south fork i have every toy you can possibly imagine and best of all kids i am liquid so now you know what's possible let me tell you what's required all right here we go life advice is life advicevicerr at gmail ok thanks for taking the time to read the email you are welcome I'm 30 years old married to kids I work in the alcohol industry currently in sales

but I'm looking to get out of the industry as a whole my friends think I'm crazy and don't understand why I would leave the best job on earth side note I know I have a great gig but I feel like I can get I can read the room and it really seems like I'm at a dead end within the company. By the way, do your friends think it's sick that you just sell booze? It is sick.

You think that's awesome, like long-term? I have a buddy that works for one of these big companies, and it's like there's tickets, especially in sales. You're taking people out. There's boxes. You can go to games so many times a month, and he's got a card for whatever beer he's selling that's on tap so it's like it's just you get to be the hero whenever you go anywhere so good on you yeah the tickets thing is definitely

um i shouldn't have been so quick to go because you know what i'm doing i'm doing the younger thing where like i think to be younger and be like the the promo person is cool for a little while i was just thinking i thought this guy was like older and was like hey i person is cool for a little while. I was just thinking, I thought this guy was like older and was like, hey, I don't want to be handing out Jagermeister t-shirts. Nobody's ever upset to get one of those, though. I got to be honest. No, I mean, we've been over this numerous times.

I've seen people attempted, I mean, there's attempted murders that I've seen in bars over a free two, you know, Goldschoschlager long sleeve i'll fucking kill you i remember one time there was frozen i don't know all those frozen drinks made the rounds it might have been aftershock or something stupid and the promo girls came in and they had frozen they dipped the shirts and then folded them they dipped them in water and folded them and then froze them and then it was like a contest to see who could un like tear it apart i don't know and like two of my buddies did it and it's the most it's the hardest i've ever seen anyone try it anything ever in my life and then i think like the guy that lost didn't keep like they were so

chintzy with the shirts too like the one guy that undid his frozen shirt got to keep his and the other guy was like halfway through it was like hey now we gotta refreeze this dude like what are you what are you doing with it now like you're refreezing the goldschlager long slave tea because then you know how many times even when kids would try to kill each other for those shirts you'd go are you gonna wear it out next week because you you aren't like hey we guys going to hold on i'm just gonna throw my gold schlugger long sleeve where i got a i got a svedka blue svedka t-shirt that's never seen the light of day yeah hey oh you guys going outside okay hold on let me grab my sambuca visor quick

that actually sounds pretty good you want all right i'll see what i can do if i can get you a sambuca visor um i like when people pluralize sambuca like oh dude you guys drink sambucas actually that one doesn't sound as stupid maybe that makes more sense are you there are you still there kyle yeah yeah i'm here man what's this guy got to say sounded like you cut out yeah let's get back to the email here. Not like I haven't done this every freaking time we get one of these emails. Okay. All right.

So here's the Kyle's like, you guys remember me? I'm over here. The guy with the email. Says, you feel like you're at a dead end with the company. I've been overlooked for multiple promotions. And from what I understand, it isn't performance-based. I'm more of a head down and do your job type. And being one of the quote bosses guys isn't really my thing. However, those are the people

that are being promoted or maybe I just suck. Who knows? I like that you asked that question. Maybe you do suck. Either way, I know I'm not a great interview and rather than continually bombing, I'm doing the responsible thing and emailing you about it. I've been with my current company for seven years, so it's been a while. The interview process can seem very stupid at times or the same. Where do you see yourself in five years, and how would you handle the situation in our work environment? Questions, but I understand those questions can be necessary. How do I become a better interviewer? Any tips are welcome. All right, man, there's, look, I don't, obviously, we don't know. Maybe you totally suck, and that's why you're getting

passed over all the time. I mean, that could be part of it. But the fact you even ask that, usually the guy that just sucks and is unaware would never even ask that kind of question. So there could be more to this. Maybe you just aren't one of the guys and that isn't important to you. But gosh, that stuff in sales, especially the people part of it. I don't want to say like the people part of it, but you know, you to do well in this industry, I imagine you've had to use some of the skills to get ahead that you're then saying you don't use at the job place. Like one of the dumbest things I ever did at ESPN is I never went like made sure everybody that was making decisions got to know me in a personal level.

And it was a huge, huge mistake. I just thought just thought like hey these guys are going to see how good i am and how hard i work and they're going to ask everybody hey is ursula work hard yeah it's good or his number's good or sales number's good yeah yeah he's great and instead it was just what the that guy's deal and i was there every day for a really long time and so it's a it's a i don't have many regrets um i really don't as you get older you're like whatever who cares that's one that i i always wonder if it would have gone differently at espn if i if i tried to do those things and i didn't um and i guess you know sometimes i think like oh but then you know i'm kind of like you are right now kyle where you're like why can i just do my job really well and then have you guys notice that but that's just not the way the world works so it was uncomfortable for you at that time but

you you'd wish you just would have done it like because obviously otherwise you would have like just been talking everybody and shooting the shit but like it would have been uncomfortable for you to like strike up some shit but you're saying you just wish you did that i just wish when you know the problem with the esp, there's a million different people. Like everybody that'd be in power would get replaced by other people. And I just, I'll never forget one girl that I worked with. I wasn't super close with her, but we were talking about something. She's like, oh, I have a meeting with this guy.

And I was like, oh yeah, what's he do? She's like, well, you know, he's at this level right now, but he's a really important person with the company. So I'm going to try to work that relationship. And I was like, what? I i was like that's fucking gross like you you just you have no interest in talking with this person and you're just going to do it because you're like planting the seed if they're important later on and she knew what she was doing she played the game and it worked out for her um there was there was one i mean look i was going to invite somebody to my wedding you know like you'd hear about that. Like Skipper got invited to a wedding once.

I was like, what? I'm like, yeah, I don't know. Cause I, you know, I feel like, Hey, if we hit it off and we meet and we talk and Skipper and I actually did meet a lot and we did get along, but you know, whatever. Now we're making it about me again here. And that's my fault. So Kyle, the reason I'm bringing up all of this stuff is that I feel you, man. I feel you here. Like I've had different times and not even, you, man. I feel you here. I've had different times, and not even jobs anybody cares about. I've had different times where I'm like, wait a minute, this guy's getting promoted. Then I've had other times where I was the guy that was getting promoted over everybody else, but that was just bartending. not about you getting better at interviewing, just get better at talking to these guys.

So I would go right to your boss and I don't know if you've talked to him already. Cause you know, it's really your fault if you've never talked to him about this. Okay. So if you're getting passed over and stewing on the inside and getting really mad about it and never saying anything, that's as, that's as much on you as it is anyone. Now, if you're going to him all the time and bitching about being passed over, then you know, you got to figure out how often you can do it. Like you can't be the guy that complains all the time. I've been that guy before and no one likes that guy. I've been the guy that's never said anything. And then somebody will say, why didn't you say anything for the last two years about this situation? And you go, you know, I just didn't want to complain. So I would, I would do this because it sounds like you haven't talked to

this boss like this. I would just go right to him and go, Hey, look, I want to talk with you. You know, can you give me 30 minutes whenever? All right, fine. You guys book some time. And you know, now I know it's a little bit more complicated, but you'll figure it out and just go, look, I know I'm not one of the boys. Um, I know maybe I'm different and that can come off as me not being as into this, but I am into this. I want you to know how in this I am and that I care about promotions and other things. And I need to know straight up, like, have I done anything wrong? Um, actually I would start with that. I would start with a, Hey, I want to ask you about some of the promotions because

don't bring up the boys thing until later. And I want to know straight up, like why I'm being passed over. Cause I need to know what I'm doing wrong. Cause this matters to me. This isn't a complaint. This isn't me being combative. It's me understanding it better so that I'm better equipped the next time it comes around. Now, it also sounds like you're kind of like at a dead end and you don't want to do this, but before you're dead ending this and moving on and leaving a job that even you are admitting is a pretty good job, talk to him like you've never talked to him before, which I've used before in examples, so they know how serious you are and explain, make him understand you better. Have him force him to get you to know you better in the sit down and talk. And you know, don't be accusatory.

Don't bitch. Don't be whiny about everything. Be a man and straight up say, Hey, what can I do to be better at this stuff? And then start to tell him, you know, I'm just not wired like some of the other guys are. My sales numbers are great, but I don't apply that same way around the office. Again, I'm assuming a lot here, so I don't really know, but that's probably the best thing that you could do. So he's like, all right, you know, check out our boy, you know, and he's, he's gonna, he's going to, this sounds like a stupid way to phrase it but he is going to consume you differently after this kind of meeting i guarantee it now if you do suck and

you're complaining all the time and that's where you're getting past where i can't help you all right uh that was straight up life advice right there no question yeah after we did fucking rassilo memory lane for seven minutes again. All right. Um, okay. We got to, we got this one speaks to my, my heart big time here. All right. My man is a, he's a construction. I work in construction for a home builder. All right. So I guess it's not his job site, but he works on the site. I'm in charge of production of the home. Okay. Well, I don't know what this means is do you work for the GC? Are you doing planning and stuff like that? Or are you swinging a hammer here?

What color is the helmet, right? Is it the white helmet? Come on, dude. Oh, is that a thing? It's not a thing anymore? I thought the Foreman was the non-yellow helmet. Dude, I wore a helmet zero times ever. I'm sure it's different now a little bit but

when you're up 40 feet man the helmet's not gonna do much for you um okay there are numerous trades that work under me actually doing the production on the house and i'm the superintendent you know i could have just read the rest of the email and i would have gotten the answers that i wasted everybody's time on so okay so this guy's kind of in charge of the job site all right established um i see it more working together i just facilitate the schedule work but the guys are doing the actual labor okay boy hey i apologize to everybody for those last couple minutes i just wasted all right regardless i had a disagreement with one of the guys on site quick and short my direct supervisor was uh thinking present for the 15 second. All right. This sentence

doesn't make any sense. I think what he's saying is that it was a 15 second interaction and that his supervisor saw it. Okay. Guys on a job site, stupidity. All right. So a couple of guys just pissed at each other. The job site's just different. Construction job site, construction law is different than corporate law. Okay. It's come to my attention, this gentleman who technically works for the company I represent has been gossiping, insulting me to my coworkers, uh, on the job. I confronted the individual asking him if he needed to talk about it to resolve it. And he said, no, what do I do now? He continues to talk shit about me on the site behind my back, but won't try to resolve it with me. I feel like took a step to squash it, but he didn't want to.

Now I'm getting frustrated. I'm not a violent person, but he kind of makes me want to punch him in the face. He's acting like such a turd, misspelled turd. What should I do? I know I'm letting him get to me too much. On a bigger question, how do you not let people like this have space in your head? My life is too healthy and too good to worry about a guy like this. I can honestly say I get along with 99.9% of people I work with. Okay. Uh, this happens all the time and you know, construction sites can get really weird cause everybody would just be like, you know, it's almost like your manhood. You know, the stuff that you would say to somebody on a construction site is not the

kind of stuff you would say to somebody in your cubicles. And so, you know, I've seen some stuff go down and I remember like going to get a check and then a couple of guys show up to get a check from my father and you know like stuff's gotten weird you know i remember my father wasn't getting paid once by this guy and he showed up to his house on thanksgiving day in front of the entire family where they're sitting down at dinner to embarrass him because he'd been ducking my father so long to write a check and this is back when my dad was like doing brick walks now you know he started having to run pretty good houses uh as he got a little bit older so i respect the hell out of his his come up as the kids say so there's there's two things here i mean the bigger thing at the end is like

yeah it's great if you get along with everybody and this guy's bothering so much he's in your headspace you know it's kind of that bronx tail thing it's like eventually after this job site maybe you're never gonna have to see him again but you did say that he works for the company so look if you're his supervisor and he's talking shit about you on the job it's pretty simple you gotta fire him he doesn't want to talk to you about it um you can't fight him even though you want him maybe he's just a sloppy ass electrician i I mean, I hate those guys. Um, but I look, I'll actually share the story. I remember, you know, one summer working on a pretty fancy house on the vineyard was working with some sheet rockers. Um, you know, I was always, I never

had a sheet rock or electric or plumbing or anything like that. I would, I would do more framing and decking. My father would never let me do trim because he knew I didn't have the delicate touch on a miter saw. But he, uh, he had this guy who didn't want to pay for his dump runs for his waste, you know, the sheet rock material that he wasn't using. Right. So, you know, whatever, how the cuts and how it would work, uh, but the product, you know, whatever was left over that he had to Chuck, he didn't want to pay for the fucking dump runs. So one job site, he stuck all the extra insulation and sheetrock inside of like, he sheetrocked over it, over the chimney. Like you realize how stupid this is. So where the chimney needed to be sheetrocked around, he actually put his waist next to the chimney and then went over it with more sheet rock. And somehow my father figured it out. I don't know how he figured it out, but he figured it out

and opened it up and ripped it open. And he kind of liked the guy too. And he's like, hey, you're fired. Like you're fired. This isn't, and he's, you know, he's doing the Boston kind of vineyard Cape Cod thing, which is a little different than Boston. He's like, Cap, what are you doing to me? You're killing me. He's like, it's just an end of discussion, man. He's like, there's a million dollar house here. You can't be throwing insulation and sheetrock residue behind the wall because you don't want to pay for a dump run.

So I, uh, I, you know So I'm not saying a guy should, but the guy's got to understand the hierarchy here. And everybody bitches about everybody in a job site. Everybody bitches about everybody and gossips about everybody at every place I've ever worked in my entire life. It is part of it. But if you're his superior and you confronted him

and he said he didn't want to talk about it and he keeps doing this stuff over and over again and he's just poisoning the job site, everybody hates you but it sounds like everybody gets along with you because they're telling you that this guy's saying this stuff about you it's just not going to fly you can't do that i don't i don't think there's some magic compromise of talking this stuff out because the hr you know hr doesn't exist on a construction site. Okay. The HR is do your job or get out of here. That's true. I don't know. That's nobody. Nobody was there to have me fill out a form of how I felt about how I was treated. I remember losing it one day. The guys, the guys were taking number twos in,

in fixture boxes and then put them on the garbage pile. It's like, I would come home when I was in college and you know, there was nothing, they weren't just to put me on framing. And my father just be like, can I take the truck and do some dump runs and I'll, I'll pay it per dump run.

I was like, all right, I need the money. And then I started flicking fixture boxes of human feces into the back of the truck. And I, I just, I walked back into the house and it's kind of sucked for them. Cause it was like, you know, they may have thought I was a shithead college kid and they could all kick my ass, but it was still my father's site. And I would go, look, I wasn't a punk or anything, but I just go, you guys serious?

You're taking dumps and boxes and I got to clean this up. Like this is, this is, you know, then I started getting a little bit older and I was like, all right, now I'm definitely not having this. So yeah, I don't know if anybody else has a better way, go ahead and hit me up.

I saw her hard to deal with that. But if you were, if you've never worked in a construction site, you are not eligible to comment on this or offer up anything. Have a great weekend, everyone. Thank you.