The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Tim Legler on the Warriors' Chances and Trusting the Celtics or Sixers, Plus Actor James Marsden on 'Jury Duty’

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Russillo is joined by ESPN’s Tim Legler to discuss Golden State’s frenetic pace (1:00), what Phoenix needs to do to stay in the series (13:00), how James Harden is dictating the Celtics offense (24:00), and why the Heat are such a tough out (39:00). Then Ryen talks with ‘Jury Duty’ star James Marsden about the excitement and challenges of improv (49:00) and the importance of finding a star like Ronald (55:00). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:18:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Tim Legler and James Marsden Producers: Mike Wargon and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today on the podcast we're going to break down all the playoff series with tim legley we're going to go deep with him and uh if any of these teams can find a way to come back from being down in the series james marsden jury duty it's a mockumentary. It is terrific. We're going to talk about it all and life advice. Enjoy. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping? Total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Excited to do this as we get ready for the conference finals and figuring all this stuff

out still to close out all four of these series. Tim Legler, ESPN, one of the best to do it, joins us on the show. Okay. I go into every series with a thought right clearly and then as I watch my default and it may not even match the result of that game as I'll watch two teams play and I'll go okay what they want to do is easier for them to do it. And the Warriors-Lakers series is fascinating in that when the one team is doing the thing they want to do, the other team looks helpless. And I thought it'd be a seven-game series. It felt a bit like a coin toss.

Golden State gets that one at home last night. Not shocking. They're going to have to beat this Lakers team two more times, and 80s health is a big part of this, but it's felt like through five games that when the Lakers are just big, when they want to do their short action, LeBron on one side and Davis is cutting that the Warriors, despite when they get it rolling and hitting shots, it feels like they're more helpless versus that size and that that should have been the defining thing before the series even gets started how have you seen it so far yeah i think that's a

good description i think they look more uh overwhelmed when the lakers can commit to their style because on the other hand i mean yeah golden state it's obviously a tough thing to deal with and tough to guard and you got to have a lot of commitment to chasing and all kinds of communication on screens. But the Lakers have some guys that are pretty good at doing that. They've got some length, they've got some speed, they've got some athletic ability, but some of the things that Lakers do, it overwhelms golden state. And so I kind of saw it the same way.

I picked golden state to win the series going into it. And, you know, it's funny because, you know, and you obviously wouldn't get into this argument with Laker Nation people, but let's be honest here. If Lonnie Walker, the fourth, does not do what he did, I firmly believe that Golden State's up 3-2 in this series, despite the fact that at times, like everything the Lakers do, and they can go on these stretches where it does look unstoppable they've got these two physical forces and AD there's no answer for him whatsoever it's still ultimately the end of the day it's like the warrior style will win out

over the course of seven games because when they do it well they do it at such an elite level it can't be guarded so I look at this series and people can say, well, that's ridiculous. If he doesn't do that, maybe somebody else makes shots. No, I'm literally going to say it. If he doesn't do exactly what he did in the fourth quarter of that game, Golden State is right now on the cusp of playing to close this out. In the next game, we're getting a game seven guaranteed at home. So even though it looks

like the Lakers can overwhelm them physically and the Warriors look more helpless and they look more worn down at the end of the day, the style that they play when they play it well, I still think wins out. So it's a question of, can you get to that style at a high level often enough? And, and there's some things about last night's game that kind of drove me insane. And listen, at least Jordan Poole finally showed up a little bit. But it's nice that they had all their pieces working, playing that style.

Then I really feel confident about the Warriors winning. But that doubt about exactly what you're going to get from who on a given night outside of Steph Curry, that could put them in trouble. Yeah, it was nice to see Poole because I felt like the third bucket he got that lay up with his right hand on the opposite side of the rim it was like the most confident i'd seen him doing anything but then the downside of it was the guy took a

heat check three when he wasn't in the midst of a heat check rarely do you see somebody take the heat check three when they haven't made one yet but i you know anything from him it there does sound though like in your voice there's some angst, some frustration with Golden State though, about like the bigger picture five games in like, what, what is it about them not doing something that seems to have you annoyed? The thing is this, I'm watching the game last night and right away, you could see the difference when the game started, you could see the difference. I've just sat there and watched for 48 minutes, just asking myself myself why does draymond green not play like this every night okay why and i'm not

talking about it's not like the guy went out there and got 35 like some anomaly game no that's not what i'm talking about it's shoot when you're supposed to shoot, look at the rim, look at the opportunities that are presenting themselves for you. It's almost like he premeditated how he was going to play. And I don't understand it because he's got the ball so much. It's the same defense, the same reads. There's still going to be so much attention going on Stephen clay and pool and all of the action and Dramond runs to dribble handoffs and all the reads he has to make and all that attention going to those guys that's there every

single night so can you explain to me why yesterday at his house as he's preparing to go to the arena he's already thinking man I'm going to come out tonight I'm really gonna I'm really gonna get downhill and I'm gonna look for my opportunities like. Like, yeah, be a basketball player. We're not asking you to do something that's outside your wheelhouse. Just take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves to you because there are games he plays and it's clear he has no intention whatsoever at looking at the rim, has no idea how much space is in front of him. It's all about catching and immediately look for the next guy to go give it to. And I just don't understand last night. He was playing like a normal basketball player offensively and looking for his opportunities that present themselves

and look how different their team is when dream on green plays that way. So that was my frustration in it last night. I don't understand where that comes from all of the sudden on one night. Cause some people thought maybe, maybe that's past me. He's older now. Like, you know, we'd see more games like that back in his main media years, the prime years now it's like, yeah, you don't really see that too often every now and then. Well, no, if you, if you did it and you made up your mind, you were going to do it, do it every night. Cause they need you desperately to do that because you don't have nearly the depth that they've had on these teams that they won championships with before.

Where he could get an Iguodala or a Sean Livingston or a Barbosa or somebody to come off that bench and do those kinds. No, they need you. They need you to give them 12 to 20, like somewhere in there. Not games where you take three shots. It's just, it makes it too easy to guard them. So that was my frustration in watching that game last night because he clearly made up his mind to do it ahead of time. And I don't know where that's been for the Warriors.

Yeah, I think some of it's, you know, he's so, like, we love his unselfishness, but it can get a little weird when you have one of the five guys never looking at the rim. And then I think the other players that are defending you start realizing, like, I don't even have to look at some of this stuff. But I think the pushes, even the pushes off makes, because if Anthony Davis gets something deep at the rim, then by the time you're inbounding, you should be able to get to five on four. I mean, it happens a lot with as great as AD has been. And that's the part, like to get up 17 5 and they were actually even a little sloppy so were the lakers in that first quarter it could have been worse um lakers responding you know kind of felt like all right you know a lot of people watching it

and it's like all right they're not going to totally mail this in they got it to nine points in the fourth quarter again but i think the constant pushing is something you just you're right you're at home and you're going whoa but is it is it kind of is it something because I want to talk about pace in the Philly Boston series we talk about that one but is that commitment to pace like almost untenable throughout a game is it's just like people can say the right things before the game they can say the right things after the game but it doesn't happen. It really doesn't happen as much as we're all consumed by it. It just feels like a goal that's almost impossible

to reach over 48 minutes. You can't get it the entire game, but you can, Ryan, have it for enough spurts in the game that it makes a total difference. I'll even go to the game the other night with Denver and Phoenix. The game started that way for for denver where everything make miss i mean the ball was up and moved one or two passes within the first five six seconds of the shot clock the entire first quarter and michael porter jr gets clean looks now he's in the game other guys are making plays then it slowed down a little bit in the second quarter and And Phoenix, they start operating in the half court. And then those two guys go to work a little bit. Now you get that thing down to one possession.

They go into the locker room and they come out. And that was the biggest onslaught of pace in the entire game was the next eight minutes. And the game was over for all intents and purposes. So you can't do it the entire time because you don't sound like you have the same personnel up and down your roster to do that for 48 minutes. So you're going to, you're going to make substitutions and it's just a different mix on the court. So you can't,

but you definitely can impose that style of play on somebody for enough six minutes spurts throughout the game to make all the difference. And I think that's what Golden State really did to the Lakers last night. Make or miss, this is how they were going to play. And when Draymond plays the way I'm describing, like he did last night, by the way, it also doesn't wear down Steph, Klay, Poole, Wiggins. Because think about how exhausting it is. Sometimes when it looks like Clay and staff

are playing right just just frenetic 100 miles an hour and they come down and they make a dribble move and they drag two guys and they throw it back to Draymond on top of the key and then it's like okay now I got to go chase it again and go get another dribble handoff and then and because this guy's not looking at the basket and there was eight feet eight feet of space in front of him that wears those guys down too so Draymond it's pace but then it's also inclusion so that those guys can get a little bit of a break on some possessions and and it just makes them feel more empowered like we have a legitimate chance to win this game rather than I've got to go hunt down another shot because that

when they look that way that's when things get off the rails for them. I want to talk about LeBron because 20 seasons into this, it is historic. There's no comparison. It is incredible. And I'll admit, though, watching it one game in person and then watching last night, the overall numbers are great. I mean, the guy's basically like 30-10 again, and he's going to get his four to six free throws. He hit his threes last night, which I was never really worried about, but it's a bit like a boxer that's stealing rounds with him. There's not a lot of him

initiating the offense. There's almost no, I'm taking you off the dribble. It has to be a downhill catch and he's there. It has to be a push and transition. And then it's some threes. He makes all the right reads. We get that. You know, there's some off ball stuff he'll still do. Like there was a cut in game four where they were coming to double AD and LeBron read it perfectly and was like, all I have to do.

And again, it seems so simple, but so few people understand it every single possession. So I don't want to be critical, but when I think of the Lakers through like a championship run, even at 20 years, I think it has to be, I think there has to be a little bit more where it feels like he picks his spots. You look at the box score and you go, dude, this guy did it again. But over the course of the game and i'm not talking just about the starts i don't know if it's deferring i don't know if it's pacing i don't know if it's understanding the game but there are limited like offensive initiations from him that it's just weird to ever see because we've never really seen that yeah i agree and i think you also have to now go around the league and look relative to these other teams like and what

their primary focus is when they other teams like and what their primary focus is when they cross half court and what they're going to run it is a little bit different for the Lakers compared to other teams right and because like basically you look at a guy like Jokic and it's again conceivable that two passes are made consecutively on the same possession and one of them doesn't go to him right It's like everything ends up back in his hands, right? And he might not end up getting the assist or the bucket on a given play, but nothing happens. No action unless Jokic is the primary guy that we're doing everything through,

through touches or screening or whatever, whatever it may be. So that feels a little bit different with the Lakers. Guys, the guy is still amazing that you know what amazes me is there are still spurts in games every night you watch LeBron play where he is still the best athlete on the court that's the part that defies logic and biophysics like aging that shouldn't be but there are and it's not often anymore but there are definitely stretches in the game where he'll hit you with a spurt where he tracks a guy down or he catches the ball in an outlet and his straight ahead speed is better than anybody else

on the floor right or his ability to finish with power over people like that that shouldn't be still there at 20 years at 38 years old yeah uh agreed all right let's uh let's pivot then to denver and phoenix i think just did some of the initial thoughts i definitely kind of got into my talent snobbery with this it's funny too because whenever we've talked about denver throughout the season and it was some of the mvp arguments you'd be like is denver any good around yokich really you look at the bench points certain you catch Michael Porter Jr on the wrong night you're like Aaron Gordon everything's supported is Murray really one of those guys then you go game one you're like this team's awesome Murray's back and you know Gordon's great defensively and I I love what

they can do with KCP and Brown and it's just funny how it can shift dramatically of like, how good is this talent one through six, one through seven. And then other times where you thought it was a little bit limited. Um, and yet with Jokic, I'm kind of, I'm just glad I hope nationally people are seeing why so many of us freak out about him because you're right. He's, he's the opposite of the high usage guy though. Like some of the other players who I don't love who always have the basketball and it always gets back to them and then it becomes easier to defend, I don't really know what you're supposed to do with him because he's so locked in right now in every element

that it has to feel helpless. Hell, they won game five and it felt helpless. Or excuse me, Phoenix won game four and it still felt helpless yeah it's so true i listen this entire playoff run across the league i don't think has made me ever feel more like uh questioning myself 30 seconds after i say something because right because you think you know something and then. Because you think, you know, something. And then immediately the very next game, you realize you, you know, you were wrong about that because that's how weird this whole thing has been. The end of the day,

your point to Denver is interesting because I said this before the playoff started, this is the number one seed in the Western conference. And I said, before the play playoffs started, well, now we're finally going to find out how good they are. That's how I felt. And I felt the same way about the Kings. Because I looked at the Kings season and I said, all right, they're a three seed and there's no doubt they got

firepower and it's a good team, man. And they got something really nice going on there. But they really took advantage of the fact that all of these teams had guys missing for substantial periods of time. And they had at one point, it was late in the year. And I'm going to say they were, they were approaching like game 75 to 80, like somewhere in there right toward the end of the year.

They might've had some guys get rest at the end that scooted at the very end. But up to that point, let's say 75 games in their top six scorers had missed 17 games total. So when you look around all those teams we thought would be in the hunt and in the mix, the Clippers, the Mavericks, the Warriors, the Suns, the Suns remade their team to a certain extent. It was either that, trades, guys not playing, injuries, you name it. And then the Kings grabbed that vacuum. So I didn't know about the – I didn't know.

Like, I was like, okay, I watch them every night. They're fun. They're entertaining. They're talented. Now I get to find out if they're really that good or they own that level. I felt the same way about Denver, and I can tell you, I've been unbelievably impressed. That's the cleanest sheet in the playoffs.

Like, that team has had the most complete run of any team. When I look at them at their peak for the most minutes on both ends of the floor, I think Denver's the team right now that's had that. Is there anything Phoenix can do to find a way to get the next two? The only thing that could change is some unlikely unanticipated contribution offensively from somebody that we haven't seen that maybe did it at some point in the regular season you know you look at guys like tory craig and i mean a kogi went a month and it felt like he didn't miss a corner three now he's just completely not a part of what they're doing really offensively at all. So if you were able to get one of those nights, like tonight,

you could get to a game seven. Like, you know, an unexpected, like Shamit gave them that. The one game, they win that game. So it's not like you've got to go crazy. Just please help and contribute at a key time because the amount of energy that Booker and Durant are spending hunting their own shots against multiple defenders is just not a sustainable way to win. You have to make teams pay because they won't even rotate to the corners, Denver. They don't even get there. Those guys can have as much as they want. So that's probably the only way Phoenix

could win the series. I mean, think about this, Ryan. You're saying basically they can't win unless their top two guys get a minimum of 70 points. Like, no shot. So, is that sustainable? No. So you're going to have

to get, and it's not like guys are going to get their own shot. They don't have players like that. Chris Paul's not, I think Chris Paul's probably who knows we see him again. You know, if it goes seven games, he might not play at all in the series. Who else on their team could go get, could go create anything offensively for themselves, whether it's a ball screen and find a guy or go get offense, like go get a shot for yourself. Nobody, two guys.

And that's why against a team this complete, they look like they're in trouble. I picked Phoenix to win this series because I thought Chris Paul was going to be a major factor in the series. And he's not. And they don't have enough without him. I appreciate the pick and the reasoning behind it. I mean, you're right.

Like Terrence Ross, spot-up guy. Okoge, even though there were certain times during the season, I was like, this guy can actually pass a lot better than you would ever think, because you think defense first, the corner three is going to be steady enough. We've talked about eight million times. I mean, maybe TJ Warren can get into his dribble and get you a pull up, but he's not going to be sitting there clearing out on one side and breaking it down. And it's funny because like I look at Booker and Durant as the prototypical, we need dudes like this in the playoffs, because if you're any team, because when everything breaks

down like find a way and we're kind of getting that from both of them and it still isn't enough and you know when I look at Durant the numbers are nuts it's supported a bit by the free throw stuff the overall field goal percentage is like 46 we know he's struggling from three but you can see him in the game go I need to to kind of force the issue. I need to take something that's kind of bad here. And I think all of us get obsessed with the top 10 players and thinking, Hey, if you're one of those dudes, you need to attack. You know, we almost want you to take bad shots to prove that you're engaged and you're being aggressive. And I think Durant's giving you all those things we supposedly want. And it's leading to some really, really tough looks because he's doing the math thinking,

if it's not me or Booker, then I might as well just take this because I can't bake on anything else happening around me with the other three guys. Yeah, the game two stood out to me. Chris Paul went down. And the end of that game, which was still winnable, uh, the shot difficulty that Kevin Durant was getting and Booker too, but Durant, especially like he was, he was, he was like falling down, like left and right, trying to get shots off, leaning back 22 footers, like falling into the crowd. I'm like this guy, you you know as great as he is that ain't gonna

work like you that's not that's not and then they come down throw the ball to the high post get one cut off a flex cut you know because he does a fake dribble handoff and shoots a finger roll layup at the rim you're like well that looks pretty easy now we go down the other end and it's like you know you look like you're you know limping home from the civil war. Like you've got your bandages all over you, right? Just like, how am I supposed to win when it's this hard every trip? And that's, that's kind of where they're at. Look, I'll say this bigger picture for them. And a lot of people, like if you have Kevin Durant, your team, you want to win every year.

I think you've got a shot to win every year. Cause he's that great. This isn't a failure overall this year. It will be a failure for him and he'll carry it. If he doesn't win one in Phoenix at some point, you got another, what, two, three years, he's locked up in book or two. They're locked up. Like you got, you got, this is the best offensive tandem in the league. You now can just see what they can do with the rest of the roster.

He just has to win one in Phoenix at some point and give that franchise something they've never experienced. And that's going to do an awful lot to validate some of the things that people will use against him and his detractors, like the people that attack him for certain things. That is the final answer. And I don't think that's necessarily something we make up our minds about this year.

I don't think it's going to happen this year, but it's got to happen in the next two to three. You know, you're right about the Durant, like whatever the long-term play isn't on this. If it doesn't work out in Phoenix, which the standard will be a ring for him, it will. I mean, look, it's just what happens. I wouldn't feel this way because I think he's just that special of a player. But it will be, well, you know, had he not gone to on to golden state and you know fill in the blank and all this stuff and it's it's going to kind of look it's a hell of a lot better than being one of the top 20 players of all time and never getting one but there's going to be there's going to be serious you know if you want to argue against it i already know your moves and

those will be brought up if it doesn't work out in phoenix at some point okay uh this series is definitely doing numbers on me, and that's Philly up 3-2 now in Boston. Going in, I just thought Boston was better. I thought they had a better plan. I thought they had better depth. I actually think at the beginning of the series, too, what they got back to my kind of what's easier.

Who's actually getting easier looks over the course of these games? Not so much the result. I thought that Boston had just more that you had to worry about. And after game five, Philly, it was so easy for them the entire time. I don't know if they figured something out. I don't know if it was moving Embiid around a little bit more. I thought he was actually more dangerous off the left side than he was to the free throw line catch,

even though he closed with all those free throw line catch jumpers, which is a layup for him. And it may be, it felt this way, but to go into Boston, be in control of game five the entire way, have two chances to close us out. If they close us out, we'll be waiting for them on the other side of the East. There'll be other big games, but for a group that is collectively

probably felt like their playoff lives have been really disappointing. Certainly for Harden, we know the resume and for Embiid who, you know, it's kind of like, look, if you're going to be one of these guys, you get a breakout at some point.

That's what game five has the potential to be. And that's what it felt like in watching it, where that's really dangerous if you're Boston. Cause now I don't think there's any doubt anymore with Philadelphia. That's, that's, that's such a good point. And I can just tell you, man, there's definitely a different feel internally, externally, which

is very important in Philadelphia, meaning fan base, media, scrutiny. The feeling is totally different with this group. And I think it already kind of was because Harden had those two, those two moments, right? I mean, he wins game one, basically alone. I thought at the time, cause I've, I've been very critical of him over the years. Okay. Took the pressure off him completely. No one's expecting you to win. He's going to come out, test the waters.

Let me see if my step back three is working tonight. And now let me see how they're going to guard me. They allowed him to pick whoever he wanted to play ball screen against. He got Horford a million times in that game and he was feeling it. And he had like a roll back the clock. I'm in Houston moment. Got him a game. Okay.

Then two and three look more like James Harden than I know in the postseason. When he, the pressure seems like it just collapses him. Never in a million years would I have put money on his performance he gave for. No chance. And he did it.

That, I think, alone alleviated some of that, you know, just the layers of past failures that just pile on in that building in Philly. Like, that cleared a lot of that, but now you go up and this is the most, one of the most monumental moments in like probably the last 20 years from Philadelphia to go into Boston and win that game and not just win the game. And I, it's very rare. I think in all the years I've been doing this,

that I've seen a team at home in a must win game, like later into the series at no point, make a threatening run. This is a team that clearly was a better team to Philadelphia all year. This was a team that, you know, you're at home kind of like must win. Most people would describe that. And you never really put together one of those runs where, where Doc's got to burn two timeouts and like the crowd is going crazy and you get it to within four points and it kind of feels like it's your game. They never came close to that moment. You just don't see that. Like that's how bad Philadelphia dominated them in that game.

And it got whatever they wanted offensively. You're talking about these shots that the beads get in the middle of the lane. I describe them as practice shots. When I watch a bead work out before the game, it's him and a coach. That's the exact shot he's taking over like a 5-10 assistant coach putting his hand up. That's what it looks like against Robert Williams

and Horford. So they're operating however they want offensively. Harden's in a good place. They're getting the X-factor stuff out of Maxie Harris was solid the other night. Daniel House comes in and gives them that moment that every team needs to have. Some guy off the bench gives you 10 points

that you didn't see coming. Everything's clicking. The vibe is great. And having said all of it, you're the Celtics and you're within one possession with five minutes to go in the game tonight. All of that weight I'm talking about will be palpable in the air for Philly to close that out. That's when you're really going to find out, is this a team that can win a championship? Or is this same thing?

Like they're going to struggle in those moments that you have to have because they're in a good place now. That doesn't mean Boston can't go in there and put that kind of pressure on them and win one game to force now game seven back in Boston. So Philly can't look ahead at all about the bigger picture stuff. And this looks great. The runway is better. Milwaukee's gone.

We're going to have home court all the way through the finals if we get there because that's what's left now. Philadelphia will have home court in the finals. They were three seed in the East. You can't start thinking that. The city's getting away from themselves a little bit right now. You better stay locked in in the moment and execute, and then you're going to have to have some guys with some big nerve

take very important shots in the fourth quarter of this game. What's fair about criticism of Missoula? Oh, man. Well, their late game stuff, definitely. I think it's probably the most fair because that to me is that's directly your impact, especially when it's obvious that where they get caught up is stuff that they were designing. This is what we wanted to start the play with.

Cause we understand like you can draw stuff up all the time and then the defense could take that away. I mean, Golden State, the end of the game the other night, they ran that hammer axe of clay and Lakers defended it well. Draymond premeditated. He was going to throw the pass no matter what. And they turn it over. Right. Cause it showed the defense messing up with the, but the where you're going with it is right.

The Celtics, some of their stuff they run at the end of the game, out of a timeout or even just up the floor without a timeout, which is another question mark. Like where they're going with their initial action doesn't make any sense in what they're trying to get accomplished. So that I think is a very fair criticism. The other one would be they haven't really

done anything defensively yet to make an adjustment to Embiid. Like, or really Harden. Harden got a little bit more attention on that ball screen the other night. So, okay, they're definitely more cognizant. These guys not doing this to us again. Okay it what about mb have you have you mixed

up how you want to try to stunt at him or have someone come out of his peripheral to make him pass the ball like teams overreact to role players making threes pj t Tucker can make a three or Harris or Maxie. It's great. Can you make seven of them? Like that's at some point you got to ask yourself that if you're if you're Missoula because you cannot continue to allow it to look this easy for Joel Embiid in the middle of the floor doing whatever he wants at both elbows

on top of the key. Get whatever shot he wants and it just looks so effortless. That's the other criticism. So I think i think there's several there you know he's just the look in his eyes right now there's not like a confident coach over there like he's got the answers and i think the team's reflecting it probably in the way that their body language exudes they don't necessarily maybe feel they're getting the answers they need either you know i do like what boston has done over the course of the mb matchup at the free

throw line stuff because that was the big breakout. Hey, now he's at the free throw line. He can see the double teams. Everything's in front of him. He can make a decision. He can pull up there if there's no help or he can drive. And, you know, I think when Embiid is facing things, it's fine. I think the problem he gets into is when he's not feeling things or he takes too long and he can lead some mistakes.

And I thought, you know, it might be like an even number where he started his offense based on attempts. But I thought actually putting him on the left side, which is something that I don't think they wanted to do because they felt like it was easy to double there as opposed to in the middle of the floor. It was really good. He was so good on that side.

It was kind of back to like some of the stuff we saw before, like the obsession with the free throw line, which again, both of them were working here. Harden was terrific off of it. And Harden, I think knowing, you know, if I get stuck, I'm passing to Joel Embiid and not Clint Capella. I mean, it's a complete game changer. And then any of that time you start freaking out about that stuff, it just opens Maxie up to lose a ton of possessions. You're just going to, you know. But then all of that attention opens that stuff up for Maxie. And that's why I think even when they beat Brooklyn,

I'd be watching what was happening and I'd be going, like, Maxie has to be getting 30 in this series because all of it's right there for him. Like, this is actually easy for him. You don't even have to do that much because he's going to be quicker on these cuts than anybody that's trying to catch up. One of the things I think that they're doing,

Boston is doing, and making a mistake, Embiid is setting these brush screens for Harden, and a lot of times he's 30 feet out when that screen is taking place, and the guard is going over the top, whoever that may be, Brogdon, Smart, Jalen Brown, they're going over the top of that screen

on Harden when a beat sets it. Well, any contact at all that a beat gets on the guy guarding Harden, right now that guy's trailing the play. I don't know why you need to chase over the top 30 feet out. I just, Hardenen's not personally, he's not looking to shoot even at that point. He's not going to pull it like Curry and Lillard over and over. Even if he did make one, who cares? The percentages are low in that shot. So here's what, here's my point though. When you chase that far out and now Harden is coming now,

you're the defenders behind them. If you're Robert Williams or you're Horford or you're Grant Williams, and you're guarding Embiid, your natural reaction when you see that defender trailing a play is to either backpedal all the way back deeper than the foul line or run laterally sideways when you're trying to get back to the paint

because it looks like this guy's got a path. And now what happens is Embiid, three years ago, would turn and stop at the three-point line. back to the paint because it looks like this guy's got a path and now what happens is and be three years ago would turn and stop at the three-point line and the ball would come back to him and he'd take that he'd take the bait take five of those in a night or now he'd catch it there and play up a live dribble from 25 feet now he is closing all of that space where his defender has left him he's gobbling all of that space where his defender has left him. He's gobbling all of that space up,

almost following Robert Williams as deep as he goes. He's catching the ball at 18 feet. And now Robert Williams, after the ball's passed, comes out. He's terrified to like fly at him and a bead goes by. So he comes out of his low stance, Horford Williams, all doing the same thing. You're eight feet off of him, six feet off of him. And you're just like defensive stance. And Embiid is like several times, he's like jabbing and jabbing.

Like, are you really going to give me this like elbow jump shot? Middle of the foul line jump shot. It's the easiest shot in the world for him. So I think go under some of those screens with the Daffodil on the floor. Let the same defender guard Harden under the screen and meet him on the other side. He's not going to blow by you out there, and he's not going to shoot it from there.

Now you don't have Williams have to get so far off of Embiid that when he catches the ball, you're closing out from 12 feet away from him, and Embiid's just going to take this easy shot. So I think that's one adjustment you can make and at least try to close some of the space that abita's operating on yeah because like when i look at you know kind of back to the maxi point like when i looked at game one against brooklyn he only took eight shots and i was like wait this should be and

then he came in the second game the adjustment 23 attempts he goes for his 30 granted game four doesn't really matter in that one but um and i know he struggled to shoot it a little bit here in the middle but like i just think when he's ready and ready to go off of everything else that we were talking about there it's it's a huge problem all right i have two more things here that i i want to finish up on game five for boston that was the slowest pace they've played in a game all season long and the part i didn't like about hard and also the playoffs hey slow hey, slow it down, dribble, dribble, dribble. Everybody knows what to do. Defense gets to reset.

What's happening here is he is dictating pace the entire time. Yeah. On top of it. How does that become so contagious when Smart says before the game, we need to run, Jalen Brown says after we didn't run again, and it's your slowest pace game in a 2-2 game five. How do you let that happen from back to your playing days where you're like, you're looking at everybody, we know what's happening, we know why it's happening,

and we're not doing anything about changing the pace? Yeah, no matter what, you have to be committed to do it because you know how important it is in the series. I think Philadelphia did a really good job, one, making shots early, two, Embiid got on the offensive glass and got to the foul line. That slows the game down. I think Philadelphia was so good offensively at different stretches in the game, it forced them to take it out of the net. That's not an excuse because we've talked about Denver.

We've talked about the Warriors. You can play that way anyway. And when you're at your best, it doesn't matter. You get it out of the net and you go and you force them to get back and kind of scramble and not be set. So that's not an excuse, but I think that did contribute to it for Boston. I also think it was weird. It was an element in that game where Boston looked a little shell-shocked

by what was happening. I talked about the weight in Philly. Well, they certainly felt that in Boston the other night. And I think there's almost, there's almost, they were running in mud at that point because they really didn't, they had no answer for what was being done to them. And all of those things contributed to it. Listen, I'm fascinated probably as much as any game, maybe more than any game that I've seen so far in the postseason about this game tonight. How does Boston play and react? How do

they react? How much fight do they have? And then how does the pressure affect Philadelphia with so much on the line? I would be very surprised to not see any kind of fight from Boston knowing they're 48 hours off of their most disappointing game of the season and knowing that it's basically the same group as last year that was down 3-2 to Milwaukee and had those games six and sevens. So you're like, there has to be a little something in the DNA there. I didn't think they were going to beat the Warriors last year. I thought it was close. There were offensive struggles. Looked like they'd fix some of those things, the late game stuff, you know, for Tatum to go that late at the end of game four, you know, and you're like, how, how are you at this stage? Like, how are you already

on the final stage? And now a lot of us that are from the Northeast, you know, they've been watching this Tatum story from the jump and, you know, all think he's really good, but you're like, man, I just have a lot of moments where I watch Tatum going, just make sure you draw a line after a certain number of players and then put his name underneath that line. That's how it's starting to feel for him a little bit. Okay, last one here. Miami, New York.

Going in, I thought New York would have more offensive creators, more people that could initiate things. I know they get it last night. It's 3-2. Three-point shooting is a big part of this. New York would have more offensive creators, more people that could initiate things. I know they get it last night. It's 3-2. Three-point shooting is a big part of this. I'm wondering now if, and as great as Brunson was, how hard he has to work to continue to ISO these things when Randall's a non-factor, RJ can disappear. We've talked about the three-point shooting.

It's weird because I thought it was going to be Jimmy versus everybody, and now it kind of feels like Brunson versus everybody. And other than Duncan getting minutes, it doesn't feel like Miami has a weak link defensively. They all know what they're supposed to do. We could call Lowry somebody you would want to target, but he gets away with so much bullshit. He still becomes somebody that finds no, he finds a way to compete out there. I don't know how the officials after this many years would be like, hey, I fell for a Lowry play tonight. Yeah, high five. Again, this is my own angst, and I'm venting a bit here.

What are you seeing in this? And I don't know if there's any part of it that surprises you or if it's playing out the way you thought it would after seeing what Miami was able to look like in the first round. No, it's about how I thought. The margins are small in this series. The difference for me, the biggest difference is going to be Miami does not make anywhere near enough mistakes defensively to give the Knicks enough chance for some of these guys

that you just mentioned who are inconsistent offensive players to like, take advantage of it to get a little bit of a cleaner look because a guy forgot to rotate or, you know, they didn't, they didn't, you know, they were not connected on this possession defensively. They just don't do it. They're too prepared. They're, they're just too locked in on, on protecting each other defensively. So those guys on the Knicks that are, you just don't really know from night to night,

other than Brunson, what you're going to get, they're not going to get great opportunities. So if they won last night, I give them credit because I thought he would end it last night. I thought, you know, based on what I'd seen, I'm like, you know what, Spolstra and Jimmy Butler, they understand the dangers of letting this go further. And it's not like you'd ever just let a team have a game,

but they would have taken almost a game of seven approach to last night. I thought the heat, and I thought they, they did as far as how intense they played. That was a very intense game. That's why I give the Knicks a lot of credit for, for winning that game. Heat are, Heat are more complete the way that they play on both ends. And so I'm not, I'm not, nothing's going to be surprising. The Heat only win that in six games. You know,

I'm still kind of sitting in a state of shock, honestly, about some of the things I saw in the Milwaukee series. Like, you know, the collapse of the Bucs in that series is still something I can't really believe I just watched. The fourth game in Miami, I'm like, I was thinking about it the other day. I was just driving around going, how did they not score for them? And also a team that won a title. How did those guys look like none of them wanted the basketball? Completely, completely agree. It's funny you say that, like driving guys look like? None of them wanted the basketball. Completely,

completely agree. It's funny you say that, like driving around, like I'll be this, I'll be doing the same thing. I'll be on live television. I get asked a question about a totally different series. And all of a sudden I'm picturing the fourth quarter of the bucks.

He gave four. And like, I have to like shake myself out of it because I'm like, I stood that up. I'm like, that did happen. Right. Like I definitely happened.

The Bucs are home. You got to go check the Bucs score sometimes, make sure they're not playing. And I got dreaminess. So, look, they got through it, bottom line. And now, you know, they're going to be in the conference finals. And that will be an interesting matchup no matter who they get. But I'm not shocked by anything in that series. The Heat are better.

They've got more ways to beat you. They do not beat themselves. Okay, I lied. I do want to ask you one more question, so I appreciate the time this morning. There's been a big push, at least on the social media side of the things, a lot of the stuff that probably too many of us that talk for a living reference for the audience. It's like, what the fuck are you guys talking about? But people have really enjoyed your breakdowns after the games with SVP.

And then it started to become like a bigger conversation of like, is there a home for this? And Bill and I talked about it on Sunday and I said, you know, I think the problem is like when I see what actually works on NBA stuff and coverage, I think the dramatic big picture questions that can swing that again, I do sometimes myself here, like that's actually what drives conversation that drives eyeballs. Uh, you can do both. I mean, we've had you hang out with us for, you could be a talk show host if you want it to be, but when you do

these breakdowns and you're actually explaining to a lot of us that maybe don't figure it out or have no idea what's actually happening in some of these games, it might be self-serving for you to say, yeah, of course there's an audience for it. There should be more of a breakdown thing. Do you ever discuss any of that stuff of like long-term having a different product for a, for a league that so many of us are obsessed with? Kind of not to the depth that I should. And I, that's kind of a focus for me in the off season because there is such an

appetite for it. And that's obvious to me every time, every year at this time of year, because I, you know, I'll be honest. I was saying this before I came on regular season in the NBA has become tougher products because there's so many nights with guys that you're looking forward to seeing are not

playing so you wait for this this two-month stretch where they every year the playoffs save save whatever dissatisfaction you have with the NBA the regular season whether it's us or fans the playoffs save it because it's that compelling. It's that interesting. It's that great. It's that intense. So there's so many eyeballs on it right now. So every year I get into my thing at this time of the year,

where this is like every day I'm doing this stuff and the touch screens and the breakdowns and technical breakdowns and just explaining kind of what's happening. They're so popular. There's so much feedback that I get on at this time of year. I'm kind of committed to finally changing that and doing something about it. Because I just think there is such an appetite for it. And it's obvious every time I do it.

The reaction is so, so great to it. And it's like, man, I wonder, would there be interest enough interest in this to do that throughout the season? Right. That's the format of the product is this less of the hot takes and debates and, you know, that kind of stuff and more of letting people inside of like what it just makes them smarter. The next time they watch a game, that's like my goal. I want to teach you something and hopefully find something in every game I watch that I hopefully no one else is really going to pick up and then go and explain that in a way that's interesting and it makes you smarter the next time you go and watch. That's the whole goal behind it.

And a lot of people really like it. Yeah. The answer is that both can exist. really like it? Yeah. The answer is that both can exist and day to day or the regular season. I think the audience actually wants, um, you know, the, the dramatic stuff. I think they want the soap opera. I think that's why there's a lot of attraction to this league. Even if people complain about it, it's kind of what drives a lot of this in a way that it wasn't like this 10 years ago, but it doesn't mean that the other part of it can't exist. If it's not in the regular season, then maybe a special, I mean, there's enough enough channels there's enough shows that you know people can go

hey let's put a camera i remember talking to one person you know where i was like what are you doing with this what are you thinking they were like you know we're just going to put a camera in front of some people and we're going to see how it looks and i was like i actually love i loved that answer i love that approach because it was like we're just going to try something and if it doesn't work you can plan out a million things and cast it and do all these things. And this is our concept and these are our goals. And then that can also not work. I just think there is some way you can live with a more extended version of what we get with you and SVP. And if it's just for the playoffs, so be it, you know, it could be a weekly thing. It could be a preview thing. I just know

there's a lot of people that want it. So that happens i'm committed to explore it further as soon as the season ends uh you know right now like your head's spinning because it's just one day after another right and then you finally you finally like you take off that that ifb take the earpiece out after the last game of the nba finals whenever it ends that night man and it's like go reintroduce yourself to your dogs and your wife and your, and your children. And, uh, and then, yeah, you take a break and then you kind of go, okay, what do I want to be different or more? What, where's there more for me that I think, um, you know, it can be created. And that's, that's my committed this,

this summer to having some of those conversations, hopefully figuring that out. Thanks as always, man. You're the best. Yeah, man. Always love coming on, Ryan. See you. The NBA playoffs are in full swing,

and you can turn crossovers into cash with FanDuel. Just visit fanduel.com slash Ryan, R-Y-E-N right now, and place a $5 bet, and you'll get an instant $150 in bonus bets, win or lose. All right, Horford let us down after being a lock on the made threes, so let's pick somebody else for the same bet, made threes. Devin Booker, game six, over-under on made threes. We are at two and a half.

Let's take a look at Devin Booker's game log here. He's only had one game in the past nine where he hasn't made over two and a half threes. And he's averaging about six attempts per game. He actually is averaging six in the playoffs here. So didn't hit one against the Clippers, four for seven, three for seven, three for six, four for seven. Didn't hit one on only one attempt in game one against Denver, four for eight, five for eight, three for four, four for seven.

So over two and a half made threes, Devin Booker game six. There's no better place to bet all the playoff action than America's number one sports book. Just go to FanDuel.com slash Ryan R-Y-E-N and sign up and get $150 in bonus bets when you bet your first five bucks. FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 and older and present in select states. First online real money wager only. $10 deposit required.

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1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming or visit 1-800-GAMBLER.net in West Virginia. The show is Jury Duty. It's on Freebie, Amazon. I have watched it all, so there will be some spoilers in here. I don't know if he's the star. He is the star of power. It's James Marsden who joins us, who's a big part of this. We'll get to Ronald, who's the concept. How dare you?

How dare you question whether or not i'm the star of this thing uh well that stuff with me a little yeah a year and a half later it's still with me uh no maybe that maybe that wasn't the best way to introduce you to this i now i regret it please that was absolutely the best way I wouldn't have it any other way. I love Spinal Tap, you know, waiting for the best in show. And when somebody explained to me what jury duty was, I was like, wait a minute, really? Like it's happening? Like, I love the concept of these things. So when it was first pitched to you, and you were kind of learning about what this would be, How did that go? Well, it was, it was a lot like that. I got excited about, um, the potential of being a part of something that was very improv based, you know, you'd have a scripted outline and then you get to get in the room and just have fun. Um, everything you just mentioned, I'm Christopher guest. I'm a sycophant. I mean, he's one of my comedy icons. He's such a

legend. I've always wanted to do that kind of like Waiting for Guffin to me is a perfect comedy and that to me is just top five all-time comedies for me um so when I was approached by David Burnett and Lee Eisenberg and Gene Stabnitsky who created The Office I thought this would be an interesting concept I got excited about getting in the room with a lot of improv people from Groundlings and UCB and it's not been something I messed around with that much in the improv, the improv world. So I did Anchorman too. There was a little bit of it there. We do a little bit on dead to me, but never full fledged like this. And then the one element I wasn't prepared for was the, you know, the guy that thinks the whole thing is real. Um, that, that sort of threw me.

Um, I mean, I knew it was going to be part of the, the, the concept. I just didn't know how it was going to affect me and and how uh you know you're sort of doing two things at once you're you're doing the improv stuff and keeping that character going and looking for funny moments but you're also you don't want to pop the reality bubble for him and you also want to protect him right the guy's like really a sweet pure-hearted guy so it was a it was a dance it was it was uh unlike anything i've ever been a part of before ronald who is the main character not realizing he's the main character you can say he's the star he is the star you could not have cast it any better you know he was he was perfect because he's obviously a very good dude. But as it's playing out, I mean, there's probably

still uncertainty, whether it's going to be blown, whether he's going to take some sort of turn, he's going to get sick of it. Like that could have gone so many ways that where it wouldn't have worked. It could have blown the whole thing up. How soon did you realize whether it was, I don't know if it was the auditions, how involved you were with that of like, hey, here's who the guy is going to be. Take us through the process of like learning about him and then realizing as you're filming these scenes, being like, we've got, we've got the perfect person for this. We have a great team of people who have extensive like interview. I forget what they put everybody through, but it was a team who worked with Sasha on Borat and you know, it's, you knew it was going to be whatever the process was of vetting these guys and girls and, and trying to find who would be the right person for this.

They, they did it the right way. And, but the only thing they told us is, you know, me and the other actors are rehearsing for about a week beforehand. And then we just, you know, we needed to leave a good percentage of room for like to be nimble and adaptable for this guy who comes in. And they just said, Hey, he's, his name is Ronald. He's six foot six. He's a solar panel contractor from San Diego. And he likes corgis. They didn't tell us much.

You know, it was like you kind of got to be open to, you know, whatever he's going to reveal about himself. And that was kind of one of the exciting and challenging things was that live theater. Who knows where this is going kind of feel. Um, but it became, it became after about a week with him, I was like this guy, you know, there were characters written that were supposed to annoy him or put him off. And, and he kind of put his arm around these, like Todd who has the chair pants and the fake ear and the whole thing, like supposed to weird him out but like ronald like loved him like he took him under his wing he got him a makeover he'd introduce him to the

bug's life i mean like this guy's a gem so if they were if the showrunners were doing this type of show which they said they were doing which is i told them from the beginning i don't want to be a part of a prank show or we're humiliating this guy i said no no we're no, we're creating a hero's journey for this guy. We're surrounding him with a bunch of absurd circumstances and people, but hopefully at the end, he's the leader of the group and inspires all of us. And it became evident after about three or four days with Ronald, it was like, this guy's awesome. And he's game, right? Like he knew there were cameras following him around, but he thought it was for a documentary that no one was ever really going to see. And, you know, there were moments where he's like this is too crazy right where he started to catch on a little bit we would have to dial the comedy back but

it was perfect because the we always thought it was going to it was going to be either or it was either it was going to be really funny um but maybe mean to him or maybe we don't get him to the finish line or it's going to be really sweet and sentimental and, and, and kind of have a kind undertone to it. But the comedy would suffer for it for that a little bit, but somehow,

I don't know. Somehow it just worked. And I think it's largely due to Ronald Gladden. I have a smile on my face. Cause I'm thinking about certain moments, lines. And like the first time I was just at home laughing, you know,

like a moment where you're by, you just laughing sure when you are trying to find a way segue into him realizing who you are and you you that's the roughest segue ever into hey i was in sonic the hedgehog and yet he's still not out of the spot i literally saw someone's socks that looked like a word that could be the, I was just like, what could get me into the sonic world? You know? And, uh, but that was, that was the great, like for me, the other, the other part of this whole thing was they got me excited. It was making fun of like playing this jackass version of myself and an

entitled petulant Hollywood brat, right. Who just is above jury duty is above hanging out with, you know, the pedestrian normal people who walk the streets. I wanted to make fun of that kind of guy. So immediately out of the gates when Ronald's like, I don't know what you're in. It was perfect. Like we just immediately want to send Marsden tumbling off of his high horse. And that was kind of the process to the whole thing was like, you know,

let's, let's just, let's just bring this guy down to earth. So out of the gates, Ronald, not knowing, not only knowing, not knowing who I really was, but also saying he thought Sonic was a terrible movie. It's like comedy gold for the path that I wanted to go down of, you know, humiliating James Morrison. That was, it was perfect. But again, like you can't script those things. You don't, none of us know what he's going to say or how he's going to react. See, what I loved about what you had to do is one of my favorite movie scenes in,

in recent memory is once upon a time in Hollywood where DiCaprio has to play this kind of washed up actor. So he's, he's still acting, but he can't be full DiCaprio cause it's really good. So he has to find this lane and you're doing something very similar where I wonder how long it took you to kind of warm up where I'm like, I don't want to make it too much where it seems absurd, but I have to find this lane of like this narcissistic version of myself that's entertaining for a TV show. Right.

Also, is it like, I actually think in a way that can be more challenging than just playing a role. role well it was um the the tricky balance that was was hard to strike was how do i keep ronald close to me and not completely you know because early on as soon as there were moments where i would do something very hollywood douchey and ronald would kind of start to drift away from me and because he didn't he was such a good guy. He didn't want to be associated with someone who was, you know, being an unsavory jerk. Uh, so I had, once I saw that started to happen, I'd started, you know, I dial it back a bit.

I would dial back in the real James Marsden, try to be a little affable and, and, um, and friendly and, and charming and all those things that are me. Um, but I would, you know, obviously, and then we wouldn't show that in the show, right. We, but there were five hours of, uh, every day we were in court and only a certain section of that is going to make the show. So, you know, the comedy beats are in the show, but outside of that, you don't want you, the audience they don't see is me, you know, the comedy beats are in the show, but outside of that, you don't want you, the audience they don't see is me, you know, staying kind of close to him. And that was imperative because, um, uh,

being kind to him and being, you know, uh, I needed to, I needed to keep him close if I was going to get him to one read lines with me in his hotel room and all of this other stuff. So I couldn't do too much of the over the top, you know, Hollywood princess kind of guy. Um, but it was, that was it. It was like finding moments to push the ridiculous James Marsden beats, but I will have, I would have had to have gained enough trust from him and enough on a comfort

level to be able to, to sort of jump off the deep end on those, on those comedy beats. And then I would have to like reel him back in after that with like apologies and kindness and, and being amenable to, you know, but obviously no, we would just cut that out of the final edit. Cause when I'm watching it, I'll take place. Like I got to a point where a few episodes in, I was like, Oh, I hope they do this. All right.

It'd be funny if they did this. And then when you get the script for Lone Pine and you're, you're, you're reading these lines with them. And I'm thinking like, this is perfect. This is perfect because that guy, whatever version of Ronald,

like you get it, you've seen it through your life. He wants to be your buddy. Like he can't wait to leave jury duty to tell his friends. It's like, dude, I'm kind of like becoming friendly with James Marsden. Right.

But it seemed like you were reading lines for so long that any normal person would be like this kind of sucks and like maybe and you're not nailing it like you're all over the place and so it just was so much fun to see him go like if you weren't you he'd be like all right i'm done like we did an hour i don't want to do this anymore. Well, and there were, again, there were moments that didn't make the cut, which were like me genuinely, like, I really, I really, God, I want this so badly. And, and I don't normally audition, but this guy is just once in a lifetime director that you're going to work

for. And, and the great thing about that scene was Ronald has no idea what the normal Hollywood process is of preparing for an audition. Right. So I could be as ridiculous and foolish as I wanted to be because it was preparing. Right. So I was just coming up with absurd exercises and a lot of them didn't make the final edit either. exercises and and there were a lot of them didn't make the final edit either i think i was you know i was um i ran around with my clothes off at some point to just sort of like it just you know getting ready getting if i if i run around with my clothes off i'm kind of just it helps me sort of get to the naked you know truth of this character certain things is like but it wouldn't be absurd to him because he was like, I'm not an

actor. I don't know what the process is. Right. Like whatever's going to make this guy feel comfortable. And he was having a ball. Like he was having a great time helping me prepare. And I needed to make sure that there was an organic sort of, uh, progress being made with this reading. Like I did start to get a little better and knew the lines of it more so, so that he wasn't like, this guy's going backwards. Right. Um, but, but I loved, I mean, I loved that because he was such a sport. Um, and he just kind of went along with everything I did and he wouldn't even tell me when I do something ridiculous. I think I started going, it's like crying like this. And it really forced and he and my intention was for him to go that sucks don't do that but he wouldn't say it and then but i'd say how how how was that i

would say i and that didn't feel great to me he goes yeah yeah that i wouldn't do that um but it was great to like it was again the duality duality of, of sending up this Hollywood, you know, entitled egocentric jerk, uh, kind of character, but also kind of still, still doing my thing with Ronald, like keeping him on the line. Um, it was a, it was a fun little dance that we were doing. And, uh, that's, that's one of my favorite scenes actually. And I was, that was another one. They were like, I could have easily humiliated him by making him do stupid shit in the

audition. And I was like, no, that doesn't feel right to me. He's a good guy and I'm not going to make him. There were a couple of moments I made him repeat a couple of things that I did, but I was never going to try to make him look stupid. Like, you know, like, look how terrible of an actor you are. Like, just not fair to him and we're not we're not celebrating this guy at the end of it by that no and that's really for the audience like you want everybody rooting for the person and even if they're not rooting for everyone else around it it's funny because i was like maybe they'll have one of the girls be interested in him and i was like you know i could see them deciding like we don't really want to go down that road because

then it feels really weird what if he really becomes interested in her and it's like that was all fake and yeah I mean for what right you got we had to surround him with a circus of of you know absurd situations and kind of ridiculous eccentric personalities. And he was in the middle of this, this circus, and he was going to react how he was going to react, but we were never going to, he was never going to be the butt of the joke. We were never going to turn the screws to him and be unfair to him. I mean, we're already being unfair enough by keeping him in the dark for three weeks of his life. But it became like once we knew that he was game for a lot of the absurdity, we we started to push the comedy beats a bit more through it. Once we once we we were sort of feeding this thing early on called the reality bank, right? Put time in of just boring, nothing and genuine

conversation with him early on. So he doesn't get suspicious that this is some sort of a show. And then once he gets comfortable and kind of like, okay, this is a bunch of weirdos here, but I'm going to laugh it off. Then we can kind of push the comedy a bit more. But it was a constant, like, Hey, if you go too far over that edge, you could upend this whole thing. And then Amazon has two weeks of footage that they can't use, right? Yeah. So that's one of the things.

And I was reading some articles after the fact, and I love the reveal on the last episode of us finding out how everything kind of worked. And then start looking at like the script and you're going okay you know this wasn't all improv it was very mapped out but it was i liked lee's quote of like it was like the kids books we used to re-choose your own adventure it's like okay well if ronald does this then the script pivots here and you know it was really amazing sometimes because they were like he was was so into the case itself that we had to start playing off of that and changing some of our our endings on where this was going, which is just a very odd or I shouldn't say odd. It's just a completely different way of normally doing television. Oh, for sure. But that's but that was also what was exciting about it. I mean, it was it was exciting for me because it was like, OK, where are we going?

You've got to stay in the moment. You can't hold on to scripted beats that you, you know, wait, what about this? Well, that's out the window now because he's doing this and we're doing that. And you know, there was a, there was a, I think there was a version where I was supposed to end up as the last seat on the jury and they scratched that because he became kind of close with Ken. I think Ken was supposed to go off and figure out a way of coming back with his money that he owes him.

He was supposed to leave the jury or something. And I was supposed to take the seat. But again, it was like, they had so many, like you said, choose your own adventure, you know, options mapped out that allowed us to be adaptable and sort of nimble in the moment

and change day to day. I mean, it was, there were scripts at the beginning. Like you said, it wasn't all improv. There were scripts that there was no scripted dialogue, but it was scripted like Marsden tries to get out of jury duty by, you know, saying he's above this or whatever. And then I would just say whatever. But by the end of the three weeks with the scripts were out the window and we just had these beat sheets like, okay, here's to, this is the day we hit these beats. This is the day when, you know, Tim does his stunt or Ken introduces him to the, the game that they play. And it was just a beat sheet. And then we just like, okay, get in the room and go with the flow. And by the end, when I was sitting there, uh, with nothing to do, cause I was an alternate, I just thought, man, this wasn't even scripted. I was like, I'm just

going to be as obnoxious and the most, the most petulant Hollywood brat as I can. So what can I do to annoy all of them while they're deliberating? I'm going to make myself a smoothie. I'm going to flip, you know, flip signs in the background. So it was this great thing of like, you can do whatever the hell you want as James Marsden in that room. Uh, and it was, it was a lot of fun, but, but yes, the sort of adaptability part of this whole thing was, was exciting, but also I didn't know if it was going to work. Nobody knew if it was going to work. It was a big experiment.

Did you ever have a moment where you're like, we lost, we're, we're, we're close to losing this. Like it gonna we're gonna get found out not really there were a couple of moments where i think he got suspicious about one of the the fake doors in the deliberation room uh he discovered something that was cracked open and we were leaving and he was like what the hell is that and he just kept kind of kept walking. And, uh, and then someone called somebody by their real name instead of their character name. And in those moments, again, we would just dial it all back and make it feel like five hours of boring

court. There's no way this can be an actual show. Cause this is so boring. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, I feel like my bigger concern was I was losing track of i i was losing objectivity about what this show was by the end of it i was like is this even morally right to be doing is this going to be what's his reaction going to be like is this even funny because we're in the room for five or six hours in character and i don't even know if the camera's catching half the stuff I'm doing right so it's like you're in this pressure cooker uh you know windowless box for five six hours a day and you just go home like well if this was a Christopher Guest movie I'd know we'd be making funny stuff

but I have no idea if this is even funny because we're just having to keep him on the line and keep him believing that this is all real, who knows? I mean, good luck editing all of this together and finding all the good stuff. I mean, I had no objectivity of what the show was going to look like. And then when I saw it all cut together, I was like, all right, that's what it needed to be. Yeah. That's a great point because, you know, granted we're all getting the product, but the selling part of it like the extra hours of filming all have to happen because of what the goal is whereas if it's anything normal we just shoot the scene and we're good and a couple takes and you have to put in all

those worthless hours for us to be pulled off um okay so again spoiler alert for anybody that hasn't seen it yet that's your warning listening to the podcast they get upset sometimes they say we go a little too quick he's the nicest guy ever so you probably have a feel of when the reveal happens that it's going to be okay and i thought it was actually pretty brilliant the way the judge sets it up because it starts with a million compliments and oh and by the way here's 100 grand we just fucked with you for three weeks there's there was a small sliver i was wondering like how would would somebody go wait what like thanks for the compliments like but what are you talking about like was there ever a moment you thought uh i don't know how this is gonna go

absolutely throughout the entire thing and i and there were daily conversations with the producers about the sort of ethical like what our north star was throughout the whole thing was the comedy is going to be there but we got to make sure we're really taking care of this guy and and that by the end of it it doesn't feel like a massive punch in the face right i was even worried about the check i was worried that the check was going to seem like, Hey, we're going to, we're punching you in the face, but then we're going to make up for it with a little cash. It was like, well, that's, you know, sure. Anyone can use a hundred grand.

That's a lot of money, but it also, I was questioning that. I was questioning like, is this a right, the right thing to do? Does this look like we're letting ourselves off the hook here by throwing him a check. It might, to me, it was like, he needs to know as soon as that curtain is lifted that yes, this was all fake. And yes, these were scripted moments and we were playing these characters and it was

taking the audience for a ride. And he was the moral center of the whole thing in this sort of shining spot. Thank God he was who he was. But the most important thing to me was not all of this was fake. All of the moments we spent together, creating a friendship and laughing together, that was all organic. The moments where I was being a shithead, of course, that was... And he would be like, okay, well, that makes sense now because you were like Jekyll and Hyde.

There were moments where you were great and I loved hanging out with you. And then the Hollywood thing would come, which was what those scripted beats were. And he would get, he was like, I got confused, but I need to know that this is all fine. And it's going to take me months to process it all. But I want to know that the friends that I made over the last three weeks are all that that's all real. And we were there in unison, just giving them a giant hug and letting them know that that was all real. And we still keep in touch and hang out. And that was important to me. Cause nothing, I mean, you know, TV is a TV show.

Successful TV show is not as important as like making sure that a human being after three weeks of messing with them still feels good about, you know, what the real, you know, what the real concept in the heart of this show was, which is celebrating someone's humanity, you know, and having it be some, some, some chuckles and some laughs along the way that that's what needed to happen to make it work. And, and it's an unorthodox and really unconventional way of celebrating someone's humanity by keeping them

in the dark for three weeks. Um, so by the end of it, we were all like, when the reveal was happening, we were all just rigid and nervous about how he was going to react. Cause it's so subjective. Like he didn't ask for this, right. He didn't ask for the check, none of it. Uh, so nobody knew how he was going to react to me. He could have been embarrassed and started crying and run out of the room. Who knew, you know, I mean, that's three weeks, a long time to mess with somebody. And, um, we just wanted to make sure that he knew that, that there were authentic relationships and friendships that were forged and that was all very real. And, and, um, you know, hopefully he can look at it as, wow, what an experience and what,

what a journey I went on. And I think he's enjoying himself now. Are you guys hanging out a lot? Yeah. I mean, not, not a lot. Like he's in San Diego quite a bit. Um, but when, during all this, like last couple of press weeks, we've seen each other quite a bit and had some hangout time. It's been fun. And we're, uh, we're kind of messing with each other on, on social media. And, um, and, uh, I was giving him shit for being in the Ryan Reynolds ad to mid mobile thing.

And, um, but yeah, he's, he's got a real playful spirit about him. I think he's loving the experience. I think he's still processing it. Like the guys on, you know, nighttime talk shows and good morning America. And now he's in a mint mobile ad with Ryan Reynolds. It's like, he's doing, you know, he's signed with an artist, uh, sorry, with an agency. I mean, I think he's kind of like, what the hell is going on, but this all feels really good. Um, so I'm, I'm happy to have him in my life.

I'm glad that we found that human being because I don't think that this would have worked if it was anybody else. You're right. You're right. And I also think like tactically it was, it was so smart to build him up before the reveal, like whoever came up with the idea to have the judge who was so good at delivering the message, you know, cause I was watching it going like, I wouldn't be psyched about any of you compliment all you want but i thought whoever came up with the idea of like how do we actually tell him and have it be on tv that tactically was like perfect execution and that was a conversation that was debated and kind of talked that was something that was talked about up until the very last minute it was like how do we because the

writers and everyone were like how do we you get into the was like, how do we, cause the writers and everyone were like, how do we, you get into the finish line and how do we make sure it's all funny? And then it was, Oh, we got to, we got to really figure out how we do this reveal. And we waited to the end because we got to know him more by the end of it. And what he might, we think he might feel like when we, when we lift the curtain, um, so that we could sort of cater it to him. And I he might, we think he might feel like when we lift the curtain. So that we could sort of cater it to him.

And I think Alan, he loved Alan Bernholtz, the judge, so much. And I think he brings such a gravitas. He grounds the whole thing in such a reality. And there's sort of a grace to Alan. It was a smart move to let him be the one to do it. But again, it was still like, what do you mean? Why, why, why me? Why'd you do this to me? Why this is all fake. Um, and there's only so much that a nice money check can make up for. Right. So he just, he just was Ronald.

It was just important to him that he knew that he knew that we were all his real pals um um but yeah it was there were so many ways that this thing could have gone wrong and uh somehow we magically hit all the right buttons and and uh very pleased with how it turned out because it could have been a disaster. No, you deserve it. You deserve the credit. And I'm glad that more people, it's so hard to stand out now, you know, like, oh, they're just doing this

or this didn't work. And then, you know, the landing of the plane versus the idea, and then like, how do we actually land it? Like you pulled it off and it was so much fun to watch. So hopefully there'll be more like this because I actually think there's a lane here.

I agree. That could be more fulfilled. So thanks again. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm glad you liked it. And again, couldn't be happier with how it turned out. I've never been a part of something that just shot into the zeitgeist quite like this show. It was nuts.

And so it's a testament to everyone who was involved and how, how difficult it was to craft this whole thing. And, and I think there's a lot of unsung heroes on it with the producers and the writers and everybody. And, you know, it's just, it was, it was a big undertaking and a really ambitious conceit, but we pull it off and very, very happy with it. I hope there are more. As to why, man. Thanks so much for the time today. Appreciate it. You got it, man. Great to see you and we'll with it. I hope there are more. That's too high, man. Thanks so much for the time today. Appreciate it. You got it, man. Great to see you and talk soon.

You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible.

Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. As we know, Kyle is in Ocean City, Maryland. Hopefully it's secrets right now. A couple of bats in, perhaps. Labats? No. The Canadian Canadian action love that yeah I just like saying that the bats

had a big run big run when we get to college about blue well I mean you were basically in Canada yeah we were basically it was the bats the Bud Light of of Burlington Vermont no Bud Light was the Bud Light of Burlington. Okay. I think you would get jumped if you went to St. Mike's and didn't drink Bud Lights. The number of Bud Light bottles that we would sell at the Blarney Stone on the St. Mike's nights, it was very...

You've got to clarify. You've said St. Mike's a couple of times. I assume that's like another school up there? Is like a small like private school yeah yeah small catholic school i know that's surprising the name um the thing is a couple of guys that played hockey in high school on the vineyard factory went to st mike's to play hockey and so they were older than me and i it was weird and we've been over this before but like my friendship path of of guys on the vineyard uh with slow start strong finish but those guys would start coming back and then at that point of like i was cool and i'd be like you know tell me about

same i don't know for whatever reason look when my we started looking at schools my father drew like a circle around new England and was like, outside of this circle, it doesn't exist for you. And you know, being the oldest, you don't go, well,

dad, I disagree. And let's have a conversation about it. Let's share our feelings. Like that shit didn't happen. I was just like, Oh, like I,

it was it. That was it. Conversation over. Like I wasn't looking at anywhere else. I would say, do you have like dreams and aspirations of going to like an SEC school? I can't imagine you, nothing on your radar then. Yeah. No, I didn't even know. I wouldn't even have wanted to do it. Uh, I think he simply just

didn't want to spend money on a plane ticket for me. That's kind of how he looked at it. And you know, the Vermont connection had always been there because my mother's from Vermont. So I would, would uh spend summers but not Burlington like I didn't really you know Burlington was off the radar like where my mother's from is basically Canada anyway so um these guys would come back and they would tell me about St Mike's and they said they all loved it and whatever and I was like well I can get into there like that's like I'll get into that place and that was kind of it like i didn't think about applying to a lot harder schools i don't know it's which it's just weird i think there was

always this outside chance if i could ever fucking finally grow that maybe i could play basketball but that probably wasn't going to happen either but you know you're 17 you're kind of delusional. Some would say, stay delusional. You're better off in your career. But I, yeah, whatever, man. I ended up bartending and working at a bar that was like a UVM bar one night and then a St. Mike's bar the other night. And the St. Mike's kids hated the UVM kids and the UVM kids didn't even think about the St. Mike's kids. And then I became like the, the bridge, like I gapped, I gapped, you know, I brought nations together. Uh, I guess this is what I should say. Yeah. So it was a weird role for me, but I, you know, just thinking about me being somebody who was social enough that back then I'd be like, nah, you guys are going to come hang out

with us and like, let's, let's get everybody to meet up and and all like each other and then i'd bring the saint mike's guys to like uvm nights and they were like this is insane and then i would bring uvm guys to saint mike's nights and they'd be like can we do something else i was gonna say that's surprising to me because i would i would assume like whenever there's a big school small school kind of thing in the same you know i don't know five ten mile vicinity usually school, small school kind of thing in the same, you know, I don't know, five, 10 mile vicinity, usually all the small school kids try to go to the big school kid bars. Like that's how it works. I mean, I guess I, so I went to school, that Quinnipiac, which is just outside Hamden.

So there's like a bunch of schools in that area. And you know, when you think of new Haven, it's like, all right, Yale, it's the Yale bar. So it's like the Quinnipiac bar. Then there's like toads, but all the Quinnipiac kids wanted to go into new Haven because new Haven's fucking awesome. It's super fun. Um, so there was like the Quinnipiac bars. Then there's like toads, but all the Quinnipiac kids wanted to go into new Haven because new Haven's fucking awesome. Super fun. Um, so there was like new Haven or there was a Quinnipiac kids. It was Yale kids. There was UNH kids. There was Southern Connecticut kids.

Like it was just like this melding of all these different people. And I don't know, I mean, the Yale kids are definitely the lamest, but obviously they were the ones that were the most well-known, I guess. So it was like a very weird mixture of four different schools that probably had no, nothing else in common, other than the fact that they were kids studying for college, but yeah. Okay. So I have a question. This is all derailing life advice here, but would there ever be a crossover where one of your buddies is like,

I'm talking to a girl from Yale? Yeah, definitely. Really? All the girls at Quinnipiac would try to meet Yale guys. Like that's just, I mean, I listen to's business 101 i understand i understand i understand i understand but you know like you'd always have like the younger quinnipiac girls and like the older yale guys you know and that was just kind of like a thing and um and it's the funny thing too is like it's not like you guys must have hated the athletes must have hated the the older Yale dude showing up on it.

Well, could it be? So we don't have a football team. So it wasn't like we were really dealing with that. The lacrosse guys at Quinnipiac were kind of the worst. So I don't think anybody was really, there was any sympathy for them. The hockey guys were all usually pretty great. The basketball dudes kind of kept to themselves. Uh, but yeah, I don't know. Like it was just weird. Like, cause again,

like you'd all go to this place called Toad's and for those that don't know, Toad's is like this iconic place in new Haven where, I mean, I don't even, I don't even know what you do. It's like a club, but also like a concert venue. Like Drake has played there. They've had a ton of incredible acts. Uh, and it's just like, I DJ for Delva fucking almost sapien there. Yep. And it's 18 plus two, which is weird so you don't have to i mean you know it didn't really matter you didn't need to really

get in you didn't need to drink but if you were under 21 you were drinking anyway so it didn't really matter so it's kind of like the perfect place for everyone to just kind of hang out in college and uh and yeah there was definitely you know anyone with a yale id was definitely uh was definitely you know people were trying to talk to. Yeah. The UVM thing was always funny. Cause like most, there was like this social circle of, I don't know, there's 8,000 kids, 7,000 kids at the school. If you count graduate, cause it has, has a good, uh, I would say the medical program there is, is actually pretty, you know, it's not, I'm not calling it Harvard med school,

but it was, uh, definitely a destination at that time.vard vermont yeah yeah i don't know i don't know what the status is of it now but the uvm female contingency would never interact with anyone outside of that yeah and if you were a dude who stepped outside of that like that was thought to be really really weird like very weird and then st mike's was st mike's just felt like a south shore north shore boston high school in vermont for the most part like every dude was like oh dude i'm from wayland like oh i'm from rentham oh i'm from fucking situate i'm from saugus i'm from and i was like dude is anybody like the st mike's have a diversity problem of not allowing anyone outside of the greater boston area in that was the weird

thing about is there a kid from western mass here so that was the weird thing about quinnipiac though is that there were actually weren't quinnipiac is a big new jersey new york mass school in connecticut like it's just it's very weird like there's not i don't even i don't know what the percentages were but like connecticut very weird. Like there's not, I don't even, I don't know what the percentages were, but like Connecticut kids were not like, there were not very many kids from my high school, a million went to Yukon, a million went to, you know, central Connecticut, you know, whatever. Um, not a lot of kids went to Quinnipiac. So it kind of had this like weird out of state vibe, even though it was in Connecticut. Um, so I don't know, kind of, and it could have been a bad school, which is like,

we were just weren't Yale. So it is. I mean, you know, sorry. Right. We're not Yale. But we are national champs. So what's up? Hockey factory.

OK, all right. We covered it. St. Mike's kids back then drank a lot of Bud Lights. Molson Ice came out of the scene and then you go over the border and you get the real Molson Ice and you'd be like, look out.

And then, you know, everybody grew up and eventually decided that Coors Light was the call. All right. Wait, wait, wait, real quick. It's the real Molson ice and you'd be like, look out. And then, you know, everybody grew up and eventually decided that Coors Light was the call. All right. Wait, wait, wait, real quick. It's the real Molson ice. Is that like drinking real Guinness in Ireland?

You're in Canada. You get the real Molson. No, the alcohol content was higher. And then dudes would be like, man, you know, what happened last night? You'd be like, oh, I was drinking Molson ice. Be like, oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah.

No. Oh yeah. So those will get you you know and I fucking know it's just being young and stupid yeah um and then we got you guys missed the ice movement you missed it it was it was a barrage if you were if you had a beer company you didn't have an ice version were you even a beer company back then but it was like it was on and if you dudes just started order then there was red dog i mean there was red beers yeah i don't go drinking red dog back in i was in like middle school like what is this

that would check out yeah did he go to st mike's all right here we go how did i screw up my own surprise engagement life advice email is life advice rr at gmail.com uh female 140 up five pounds due to the nba playoffs drinking and eating schedule, but no shame in that. No? Yeah, whatever. It's the off-season now, unfortunately. So working on my fitness again. No gym stats, but enjoy a Peloton ride and some notable marathon times.

Hell yeah. Oh, okay. I think I understand. Now it makes sense because she said it's the off-season now, unfortunately. But here is the answer. This past fall, I got engaged to my boyfriend of four plus years, exclamation point. We met working together for an NBA team. All right.

A lot of staffers checking into the show lately. So as you can imagine, I kept him in wraps for a while since it was a work relationship and wanted to make sure it was serious before introducing him to people. When I finally felt we were all in, he ended up getting another offer with a different NBA team in the Midwest and accepted the job. We decided to stay together and date long distance throughout the next three years. During that time, we visited each other as much as possible. But as you can imagine, there were a lot of conflicts in the NBA schedule

and two different teams crossing over. When we were together, I introduced him to key friends and family, but otherwise we'd hang one-on-one since we didn't see a lot of each other. You could have demanded a trade, right? Start mailing it in. Like, did you forget to send out the invoices? Yeah, sorry. I think this market is too small for me. All right. During our engagement, four years in, I got an offer to move to his city and work for the same team again and took the opportunity. We got engaged a year later, so I'd say it all worked out. Wow. So she actually did get to the other team. Very NBA of you. During our engagement weekend, our current team was

playing our old team the day after Thanksgiving. So we planned the whole trip around that. We went to the game with my family. The next night, he had a whole engagement surprise planned. I, of course, said yes. And then we went to a bar where friends, family, and coworkers surprised me to celebrate. It was all people he had met during his time visiting throughout the years. Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah, pretty standard. That's good, yeah. Yeah, good job. Good job. Well executed by everybody here. All right, one of my friends wasn't there.

He had never had the chance to meet her. The fiancée had never met the female friend of the emailer here. Every time he was visiting, she was busy or had COVID. Since it was a surprise, I didn't know about the party and I couldn't have invited her. I called her the next day or two to tell her about the engagement. She congratulated me like everything was fine. A few days later, I got a long text from her saying she was extremely hurt by me that her and her fiance weren't invited and thought our friendship was stronger.

She told me she no longer wanted to be friends and said it was super disrespectful of me to not invite her. I replied, acknowledging her feelings and apologized, but proceeded to tell her it was a surprise and I had no control. I thought that was obvious, but maybe not. Usually that's how engagements work. Anyway, what do you think I should do? I don't want my fiance to feel bad and feel blamed for ending one of my friendships, but I also don't think I want someone in my life that drops a 10 year friendship that quickly without thinking about the circumstances. Do I invite this person to my wedding and keep trying to reach out?

Your life advice would be greatly appreciated. And Kyle, since he's about to get married, Kyle, not available to me, not available, but we can forward this to him if you would like uh you want to do like the you know there's a we could do life advice and just go done here's your advice um anybody that would do this to end a 10-year friendship relationship over something that you had no control over and they can't understand it makes it about them then fuck them that's the quickest way to do it and i think it's the quickest way to do it. And I think it's the right way to do it. It's a little harsh. And maybe you let her chill out. It really depends on you. Like how

bad do you want to keep the relationship going? It sounds like this is a friend that's meant a lot to you, but honestly, like somebody going this hard about it, being this narcissistic about something that's supposed to be a day for you that again, you didn't have control over. That should be a pretty easy thing to explain. Hey, your feelings are hurt. Understood. I get it. They should be hurt. If it were reversed, I would feel left out. But if it were reversed and you told me, hey, I have no control, it was a fucking surprise. And whoever was invited didn't reach out to you and they screwed it up because of some missteps in the past of trying to meet up. No one was intentionally trying to hurt your feelings.

It was a mix-up. And had I known, and it had been just a traditional engagement party where I would have planned it out, you would have been one of the first people I'd call. If that's not good enough for you, fuck off, Logan Roy style. Again, this is just where self-awareness 101 just comes into play. And the amount of people that just like lack that crucial character is like, this isn't about you. Like, okay. Your feelings can be hurt.

You could be upset, but like, you know, it's not her fault. So on one hand, yeah, sure. It's easy. I think it's easy for us to be like, Oh yeah, fuck her. Like, you know, she did you a favor. She told you who she really was and just, she's dead to you now. Sure. But I think she mentioned something like, should I invite her to the wedding? I would invite her to all this stuff. Like I would just, I would just have a talk with her. I mean, you already seemingly did.

And just say, Hey, like, I'm sorry. Like this is, this isn't how we planned it out to be, but you're still a core friend of mine. Like I really value our friendship and let her just kind of like be mad maybe for a little bit and then invite her to, you know, is there a bachelorette party? Is there a shower out, you know, the wedding, like invite her to the, to the guys coming. Yeah. Well, invite her to the stuff leading up to like the wedding. And then if she's really serious about this and she's still like so mad about it, then, you know, then you kind of have your answer. But I think it's one of those things where if you invite her to more things, it'll probably blow over. I mean, it is a shitty

thing to do. And I don't know that I would personally get over that. I'd always kind of hang that over that person's head. But it sounds like you don't want to lose the friendship. So I would say just kind of kill her with kindness, invite her to other stuff. And then she's still kind of being a huge tool about it. Then, you know, the friendship's probably over. Yeah, I think Suri's advice is better

because it sounds like the emailer here, if she cares enough to email the show, being like, what should I do? Then clearly she's been thinking about this and she's been thinking about this friend and she doesn't want to lose this friend. Look, I would tell a lot of people this. Don't be in a hurry to start losing long-term friends as you get older. All right? You know?

We could talk about surrounding yourself and standards and all this kind of stuff. But it's just nice to have more friends than to not have them. That sounds really simple, but it feels like some people as they get older and granted, cause you have more exposure to the person, you start cutting more and more people out. But you know, if they're completely valid reasons of stuff is unhealthy. If you feel like, Hey, these people are actually dragging me around down and I'm not hanging out with people that are motivating me or inspiring me, or depending on what kind of field you're in and all these, like, there's a bunch of different ways of talking about this, but you know, over something that's really pretty stupid and it's even better too. And it's like, you know, you didn't do anything wrong and you can just go like,

you're like, you can be as mad as you want, but like, this is awesome. I don't have to really, there's no guilt on my side of it because I didn't do anything and there was no intent and you're right. So you should probably get over a little bit, but there's only so much time I would put into this beyond what the emailers already put in. Like if you want to invite everybody, great. I think that's a great idea, Saruti. But if there's another like follow-up, like, oh, now I'm invited, like my patience would already be really, really thin with this move. You said it's actually kind of easy because then you can just be like, Oh, it wasn't my fault. And you can let the friendship sort of die out. I kind of think it's the other way around. Like I would be annoyed. I'd be pissed off and

be like, it's not my fault. Why don't you understand that? It's not my fault. This is like, why are you so mad at me? That would bother me. So I get what you're saying, but I also kind of see the other side about the bullet, you know, I don't know. I was going to drop names out there, but I'm not going to, but, uh, I don't know to your point about friendship though. I just know, like I may, I have five core friends, really core guys. And I just, I do not have the capacity for more than that. I know that. So if I add people to the group, I know I'm going to be a bad friend. So I just don't really add friends later in life. Um, you know,

even if I meet somebody cool, like I've met, like, for example, like my wife has, my wife has a billion friends and I'm friendly with a lot of like their significant others, right. And they're good dudes, but I just kind of like, no, like I I've reached my capacity to be a friend. My friend capacity is five and that's it. Um, if you feel like this is like a core person, and again, if I lost one of those five, like I'd be really bummed about it, but it doesn't sound like this is one of those five. It's kind of like a fringe friend. So maybe you're right. You probably don't need this person long-term. I know it sucks to be like, hey, this person thinks I'm a shitty person and thinks it's my fault. It's not. But two, three, four years from now,

if they're not really in your life, are you really going to miss them that much? Ask yourself that. I would also add this. Asking about why you weren't involved in something usually ends up as a loss. It just never quite works out. I did it one time, a guy who at the time was one of my closest friends and is still one of my closest friends. And he had a destination wedding and I didn't really get it. And at that point, I shocking wasn't in a serious relationship. And then he like, was like, Hey, I got married or whatever. And like, I didn't know anything about it and then i realized i was like hey i think it went i couldn't i needed a an answer so like a month after the wedding i just hit him up was like hey was i not invited for a specific reason or was i not invited because i wasn't with someone and he was like dude it was a destination

wedding there were seven people there and i went I went. But you knew people that you were friends with that were there. Yeah. So you just didn't make like the core group. I didn't make that core group. But I mean, it was everyone was like a married couple. Oh, they weren't single or solo? Yeah. And to be honest with you, it was the right call.

It was the right call. But I right call but i didn't i was like wait he got married and they were like yeah but it was kind of this day i was like well was so and so there and they were like yep and i was like what the fuck and i was just kind of thrown off by it and then i go i just have to like because it was kind of like the the math of like wait if i'm not that close with you then let me know. So I can dial back my time. And did he not have a bachelor party or anything? I was going to say, I'm just, I'm just opening up some, some old wounds here. Cause, cause, cause I'm actually going to,

I only say that cause I'm going to a bachelor party in a couple of weeks. Shout out to Noah knock at main. It's going to be an awesome time. And there are guys that are going to that bachelor party that are not even invited to the wedding, you know, like it just, there's just, there's just levels to this. And we were like, Hey, is that, we were talking about, is that okay or not? And it ended up being totally fine. Um, but if you didn't say those guys are the winners, they're definitely the winners.

But I'm just saying if you didn't get invited to a bachelor party and a wedding, that's a, I think you have the right to be a little upset about that. But not trying to rip open old wounds here for you. No, I think I know now kind of like what happened with that one, too. But also, you know, a lot of stuff that happened to me not being invited was my own fault in the beginning of the career stuff. Yeah, they're probably like, Brian's got too many NBA games to watch. No, but I mean, the first three three years i don't think i had i got a hundred and what 56 weekends i didn't

work seven of them yeah so it was they kind of knew there was a million yeah there was a million no's and you know i kind of fucked myself on some of it and then had to build a lot of that stuff back up because i you know again it again, it was, it was my call. It's what I decided to do at the time. It's not like I'm fucking sitting around moping around going, God, if I had just gone to the Cape that one weekend with those guys, but I'm just warning anybody that when you inquire as to why you're not invited, like think about what they've already decided to do to you. It's usually a lost cause for me. It was just a clarification. It was an accounting error. i was like

oh yeah that makes sense i wouldn't have invited me like no problem but in those in those unknown weeks i'm like wait how what i'm like what happened here and then when i saw the picture of the wedding i was like yeah it doesn't that would have made zero sense for you to be at this and uh you know all of us have to have more self-awareness okay uh here's a guy checking in 511 184 top three sandwiches you know what we appreciate i don't oh i actually want to hear this yeah but now everybody's going to do it and we're going to be like three paragraphs in before we get to any questions you're going to hear about marathons who's game comp is what his bench is and his five favorite fucking salad toppings i think it's okay to give i think it's okay to give like in the future give one thing either give your height weight specs

give your gym stats give your give a top three list give us i don't know whatever gaming thing you're into but you don't you only get one you don't get like to list off all the things about you because i kind of like a top three list i don't hate it okay all right sir i defer to you on this one he says roast beef, Buffalo chicken, chicken cutlet. I think that's a strong three. I just had a Jersey Mike's a couple nights ago. Jersey Mike's.

What was it? Roast beef Mike's way. It's delicious. Good for you. It's good sandwich. Cross country. I'll load up on some of that. Although usually it's Turkey though. I don't want anything to smell bad not the roast beef does buffalo chicken i think it's i don't know buffalo chicken you gotta eat

right away you can't that can't sit anywhere yeah it gets soft you can't do that on a plane it's not tuna fish or egg salad you know but it's all right uh not great lifting numbers side note i'm in the military and riscilla's pull-up take is 100% accurate. Okay. To start this story, you need a little background info. About 10 years ago, while I was a sophomore in high school, I was good friends with a girl who was a senior. We used to flirt on and off, but nothing ever happened. Then she ends up hooking up with another buddy of mine and I never really continued flirting.

She went off to college. We came back for fall break and we hooked up in her car. I felt weird about it after and told her it was a mistake and we should just be friends. As you can imagine, there was some awkward tension and our friendship kind of dwindled after that. Forward to 2019, just graduated college and was at a buddy's house drinking till the wee hours of the morning. At some point during the night, he asked me if I knew what was going on with the girl. I said I I hadn't talked to her in years. I wasn't sure what she was up to. Then he dared me to FaceTime her. It was around 4 a.m. at this point. Drunkenly, I dialed her up, and to no surprise, she did not answer. I thought that was the end of it. Next afternoon,

she texted me saying, sorry, I missed your call. After a little little small talk, asked if I wanted to get coffee. I obliged. We spent the next few hours catching up. I learned that she had had a serious boyfriend. I don't think I'd be hearing much from her after that. Oh, that that's present tense. I'd learned that she had a, uh, meaning at that time they met up, not the past. However, she texted me a few months later when I'm back home to get coffee again and sends me some cookies for my birthday uh when i am home i grab a coffee with her and she says quote i wonder what have happened what would have happened if i never hooked up with your friend who knows oh man who knows um she's still in the serious relationship when she says this to me i say something quick like quote yeah who knows change the topic incredible counter man wild all

right yeah crazy times i go back to my area of the country and start dating a girl who i am still happily together with i go back to my hometown with my girlfriend and after a long time away because of covid um i go back to my hotel with my girlfriend after a long time away because of COVID. All right. I then go to visit my grandparents about three hours away. And she texts me again, asking me to grab food. I tell her I'm far away and that it'd be hard to meet up. She responds, quote, nowhere is too far to meet up with you.

Yeah, I don't like this at all. Yeah, red flags immediately. She says she's still dating her serious boyfriend, exclamation. My girlfriend sees the text and gets very uncomfortable, which is very understandable. I respond with something like, quote, oh, sorry, maybe another time, and hope that's the end of it.

Oh, I thought that's what you said to your current girlfriend. Yeah, what? You're also dating someone? That was, yeah. She was uncomfortable, just understandable, full stop. Next thought is back to this girl from the car i don't really

hear much from her and after that i think that's the end of it but she's been running into my mother back in my hometown this just keeps going do you hate the story do you hate the structure i hate i just there? I hate all the... There's so many awkward, dumb things that are happening. I'm not mad at this guy for telling the story. I'm just mad at all the things. I'm mad at her, really. I'm super desperate.

We still have some work to do, though, on the email. That's the point. I'm like halfway through it. I find that weird, but my mom does let me know that she's gotten engaged to her boyfriend. I then deploy. I haven't talked or heard from her in a while. And out of the blue, I get a text, quote, hey, I have a question for you.

Naively, I think she's going to ask for a mailing address to send a wedding invitation. Nope. She responds with, quote, did I ever have a chance with you? I reply, quote quote i am sorry i don't know how to answer that and she responds by calling me i'm halfway around the world hours ahead i don't pick up she calls again this time i groggily answer the phone when i pick up she's sobbing saying quote i just need to know if we ever had a chance. I'm about to get married and I just don't know. I think she knows. I tell her no and I'm sorry and wish her the best of luck.

As you can imagine, I haven't heard from her much since. She did get married and texted me Merry Christmas during the holidays. And then again on my birthday, I have stopped replying. My question is, did I handle this the right way? I figured telling her no was the best option. I wasn't about to tell her yes and ruin the entire wedding because she starts thinking about things from 10 plus years ago i don't even know what the answer would have been i do realize i was very naive at points

in the situation but what would you guys have done thanks love the pod he included another detail here but we're gonna leave this out just in case there's some other guy going wait that guy's from that town oh yeah yeah dude your wife's texting this guy a lot man sorry thanks for listening to bob though yeah so you teach her subscribe we're not even gonna send you a t-shirt uh did this guy write us an email tell us he's fucking sweet no i doesn't is there real advice like what's the advice here he did the perfect thing he did he did the right thing i i was uncomfortable because like the level of desperation from this girl is just off the charts and i and that's even before we get to the like hey did i ever have

a chance with you you did the right thing you shouldn't have told her yes because the answer is no anyway probably i don't even know if the answer is yes. Like, did he lie? Because it sounds like he was, it sounds like he's never really been that interested in any of the interaction. Well, he was until early on. Until his buddy hooked up with her. And that was, it sounds like decades ago. Yeah, but the buddy had already hooked up

with her prior to the car thing. And then I think they hooked up again later on. But we're talking years. We're talking years removed from this. And then he's getting the random check-in and he's meeting up. So I think he's getting on his own case about being naive. I don't think he necessarily did anything wrong. You probably knew that she still kind of liked you. I mean, I think everybody kind of has a couple of these encounters. Either you're the person wondering,

or the person is reaching out to you wondering again, maybe this guy is that sweet. And that's why she's always kind of had a hangup about him, but you weren't interested in her. So it would have been even worse to say, yeah, who knows? And like, leave it open-ended. He said, no. So this guy handled like a champ. Yeah. If you, even if you were interested in her at one point or multiple points, there were so many red flags along the way that I think is the reason that you are so turned off by her now. Even if, even if the answer is yes, like at any point, could this have worked out? Even if the answer is yes, you did the right thing by saying no, just because what are you going to do? You're going to say yes. And then be like, yeah, actually, but it would have been

like 10 years ago. Cause then that's going to be in her head. You don't want to ruin someone's marriage. You don't know this other guy. Just let it, just like the marriage is kind of not off to a great start. It's her life. Let her fuck up her own life. Like if she wants to get married to this other guy that she that's not on you. So just say, just say no, don't, don't complicate it anymore. You don't want to, I mean, you don't want to be with her. So like, what's the point of even saying yes. The only reason you would say yes is to kind of like fuck with her head really. Cause you have no being with her. So even if it's, again, this is where a little white lie, it's totally fine, but it sounds like, it sounds like she did you a ton of favors over the years by like kind of showing her

showing you how insane she is. I mean, any person that gets a day facetime at 4 a.m and then responds being sorry i missed your call not what the fuck were you you know calling me at 4 a.m for that's a pretty big red flag so it's probably a good thing that you did do that and found out that she's like a little bit insane so again it sounds like you think you may be a bad guy you're not a bad guy in the situation you made the right bad guy. You're not a bad guy in this situation. You made the right call, even if it's not a hundred percent truthful. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't really think there's a ton to add to this other than, I mean, it does happen where if you've been around long enough, I don't think this is that strange where

you get the heads up. Like I got one again, this was was somebody it's the only time i've ever dated anybody that was older than me and which i guess is a stat as i say it out loud uh and you know i was just too young to kind of understand some of the manipulative shit she did i just didn't get it i didn't understand understand it. I was too young. And then, you know, whatever. There was always like a check-in. Oh, only like five or six years. But we met when I was, well, I'm just going to leave it at that. Yeah, that's fine. So, again, gaps in years, like the value ratio of like what those are.

Like I always joke that 18 to 22 when you're in college is like 20 to 40 sophomore to senior in high school is a for the emails for example is actually pretty pretty big yeah right so um i mean there's a lot of different ways to like look at this person like maybe she's a loser um and you were you were not and she just thought you were a better option which sucks for the guy she's about to marry um maybe she did feel some really weird connection or maybe she kind of just checks in with a bunch of dudes and maybe you're not that special because that's definitely what happened to me like i got the random out of nowhere 10 years after we had dated being like hey just want to let you know, like I'll always love you. And I'll always whatever. And we were never even on those

terms. Like we weren't telling each other we were in love with each other, but it was kind of like a big picture, you know, part of my life at one stage, I'll always have feelings for you. Dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. The thing is she didn't say, Hey, I'm getting engaged. I already knew that she did. Somebody told me and I dropped a, Hey, aren't you getting married? Like soon just went right back at her. Cause I thought it was lame. I thought it was like a lame thing to send that was vague. And she was kind of wondering like how I was going to respond. And instead of me being like, you know, you were always the person I cared about the most, or I'd still think about you or whatever. I just did a, Hey, I heard you were getting,

aren't you getting married? Like soon. Do you think that's normal? Cause I remember when I got married, you know, you hit up like seven girls. I was just texting all my exes being like, Hey, you just want to make sure one, like, no, I never had any of that like cold feet thing. I mean, obviously I know it's a thing, but you know, you know, like when they say like, when you die, like you're, you're in all these events in your life, flashing for you. And you're like, did I do this right? Did I do that right? And like people say that same thing about marriage.

It's like, hey, I'm getting married. I'm really nervous. Did I screw something up? Is my life going on the right track? Is this really the one? I never really had any of that. But I guess that is like really a thing. I mean, I don't know.

Because all those people that like have to drink a ton before their wedding and they're like, man, I'm so nervous. Did I make the right decision or get cold feet that day? Man, that's, that's, that's, that's a terrifying way to go into a life commitment. I just, that's, I never really had any of that. So I it's, it's hard for me to speak on it. I've met a few people and I felt really sad for them and they're all divorced. Uh, but I would be like, what, what happened? They're all divorced. Yeah. That tells you everything you need to know. No, but I do think that there's a cold feet element to it too. Like the same way of buying a house, like the first time you're buying a house and you're

probably hopefully understand your loan terms a little bit better than Michael Scott, but you know, like, oh my God, like I'm really doing this. I'm sitting down and, you know, I've saved up this money to, to be able to, you know, get my little slice. And then you're like, you may have a moment where you go, is this actually the right move? Is this really the right move? But to me, a house is like, you could just sell it, right? You don't get sued when you sell it. A little bit of loss, but yeah, you move on. Right. Where there's a few people that I've talked to over the years where I was like what what did you know about like you

know getting divorced and i remember one girl was like i knew that day like i was so miserable they have a wedding oh my god day of the wedding i know i shouldn't do this she's like i was walking down the aisle and she's like there's just i watched the video and i'm like looking at my family and i have this look on my face and they just all know yeah man they're like uh they're like she doesn't want to do this like this guy is not the guy and i was you know it's sad it sucks it sucks to hear that so i'm not even saying that any of this stuff is happening i'm not saying i would say there are some people that like to do the mass like you might be this special it might be you you might be her person you know she might feel this

connection with you she doesn't feel with anything else So I'm not disputing any of that. But I think Saruti makes a good point in that some of these feelings before the big day are probably more normal than we realize. It's just nobody would ever want to hear it. And it would really suck if you're the person that's like all in and you're picking up hints that the other person maybe isn't all the way in. But I, I don't know if it's, if it's,'t know if it's kind of, look, I think we all understand it's not a cool thing to do, to be about to be married and reaching out to other people going like, hey, where's your head

at with this whole thing? I'm having second thoughts, but also to be sensitive to the idea of not the mortgage, but the transaction of marriage of going like, oh, this is like a real deal. But I imagine there's just millions of people that still kind of think about that other person. But the other thing too, that's totally unfair about it is you're imagining the one that got away or the other person, usually you're imagining it in the best of terms, right? And the person you're about to marry, you've probably spent, you know, standard operating procedure here. You've, you spent a lot of time with them. You're probably stressed as fuck getting through the wedding planning and

everything else. You've seen this person every single day for all of these times. And the person you're imagining, like you're not going through any of the, and you're only like thinking about the good things, which could be accurate or completely unfair to your current situation. So I just think it's way more common. I think we both agree emphatically here. You didn't do anything wrong. that would look at this attention that you're getting and like it and start being vague and fucking with her a little bit with no intention of ever changing anything or wanting her to call off the wedding but there's a lot of us out there that'd be like well you know if this hadn't happened or a different path or whatever and it's like no like don't do that there's no like you're

not fighting back for the so why what are doing? You start playing that game where like, yeah, sure. At any scenario, like sure. If things went differently, it would, yeah, things would have gone differently. Maybe it would have worked out, but it didn't. So I don't know. Like there's, I, you start playing that game and I just don't think that that's a good,

that's a good recipe for, for your own mental health. Okay. There you go. That's life advice. Thanks to Mike Oregon in for Kyle today, who is at his bachelor party, which honestly, Tuesday, we can't wait to see what that episode is like.

Who knows who will be back Tuesday? We don't even know. He doesn't have a flight book back from the East Coast. He plays her. That kid will play her. It's true. We've seen it firsthand.

Yeah. So I'm not worried about him being involved with Tuesday, just a matter of how rested. I think on Tuesday, he's young enough. He should be out of the gray. So, all right.

That's the podcast. Bill and I on Sundays. And we'll keep cranking away to turn the playoffs. We'll see you next time. you