The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Tony Parker, Plus College Football Roundup With Andy Staples

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

Russillo is joined by four-time NBA champion Tony Parker to discuss his book, 'Tony Parker: Beyond All of My Dreams,' his experience at the Nike Hoops Summit in 2000, the 2001 NBA draft, earning Tim Duncan’s respect, his NBA Finals battles with the Miami Heat, and more (4:00). Then Ryen talks with The Athletic’s Andy Staples about the college football season, including the PAC-12’s announcement that they will play nonconference games and what that could mean for a team like Oregon. They talk Florida, Clemson, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Alabama, Texas, Jim Harbaugh approaching the last year on his contract at Michigan, Chip Kelly at UCLA, the upcoming Oklahoma–Oklahoma State matchup, and more (24:00). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (58:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan rossilla podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm happy draft day everybody getting great car and home insurance from state farm is surprising a great rate that's like drafting a player that becomes an all-pro the real deal state farm agents provide personalized service so you customize your insurance to fit your needs. Like a GM putting together their very own roster much like a bunch of GMs tonight. That's not even in the script.

You need a team that supports you and State Farm's got a great one in addition to agency. Award-winning mobile app helps manage coverage, pay bills, file claims, and more with a great price and even greater service. State Farm goes from strength to strength. Choose insurance that always brings its A game. When you want the real deal like a good neighbor, State Farm

is there. Here is the plan. Big stuff. Because we have the draft all night. We're going to talk with Tony Parker. He has a new book out. Try to ask him a bunch of questions about all that stuff from his playing days. Duncan not liking him. Pop not liking him. How tough that 2013 loss was, and then the good stuff too.

Finals MVP 2007 and him overcoming everything. Also, almost getting drafted by the Celtics. I'd always heard rumors about it, but it's in his book. Oh, not rumors, but I want to know how real it actually was. And it was pretty real there, like right up until seconds before the Celtics didn't take him. So it's all in the book. I enjoyed reading some of that this morning. And then we're going to talk with Andy Staples,

college football. And you're thinking, wait, aren't you going to do a ton of draft stuff? I am, but I'm not going to do it on the pod. And this is what I've decided. I did an hour plus with Bill yesterday. If I do a bunch of last minute rumors and all this stuff, the rumors are flying around so fast that like I had one guy that was a medical do not draft. And then 10 minutes later, somebody else texted me and said, actually, this guy just broke his foot in a workout. It's not even that big of a deal. So I don't want to, um, especially with guys and draft picks and the medicals. And it's not like I'm there, there, I don't want to, you know, do any of that kind of stuff. You're like, Hey, I heard this dude has this bad injury and maybe

whatever. Not that this podcast has the power of that, but I'm doing so much stuff tonight for the draft. We're just, if you want my draft stuff, this is how it's going to work. We're going to do a pregame on the ringer live thing. So check that out. And then right as the first round, maybe halfway through Kevin O'Connor and I,

and Bill Simmons are going to do a full thing. And then that's going to be the pot. So it's going to be in the draft moment podcast, wrapping up all the lottery picks, the rest of that first round, and then just probably a few second rounders here or there and that's um that's going to be a bonus extra rossillo podcast for you kyle right that'll come out late late tonight into tomorrow morning

thursday and then that means i'm doing a friday podcast as well i hate to bring it to you yeah no i'm fine with it that was my expectation but I want to people are asking me to do stuff like a couple weeks out and all that kind of stuff and I'm like look man right now with the draft I'm waking up every day and looking at that day I'm attacking that day and that day only and then I worry about

the next day when it is the next day so that's instead of doing some draft stuff that could be outdated by the time this even gets you know dropped I'll be doing all of it tonight. So that's how I wanted to kind of do this podcast. And because we didn't have life advice on Monday, we'll do a couple of those as well. So there you go. Tony Parker, Andy Staples, and then some life advice.

Enjoy the draft and those that don't like the draft and think it sucks. That's why we have Andy Staples for you. Tony Parker joins us now, NBA champion, NBA all-star and finals MVP, and his new book is out, Beyond All of My Dreams. And that's really where I want to start, where the book starts, because you're, as self-described, a little French kid trying to figure it out and playing in all these competitions. And then you make it over to the Hoop Summit, and then you realize, wait, so when it first dawned on you that I'm not just somebody who loves the NBA, I can play and compete with these players,

when did that moment happen for you? Like you said, at first it was a dream, and it was a very, very far dream because you have to put it in perspective. Back then, it was not a lot of Europeans in the NBA. It was a huge deal when you get drafted in the first round.

No European point guard made it in the NBA. Pop took a big risk on me. He gambled because it was the end of the first round. Like I said, it was only Vlad I don't know, Vlade Divac, Stojakovic, the Dasit, you know, me, Dirk and Pau.

We all arrived kind of at the same time. And for me, my goal was like, if I can be a good little backup point guard and I can play 10 minutes, I'll be happy. You know, that was really like my goals because I didn't know if I can play in the NBA. And so the Nike Hope Summit was a good first stage, but it's against guys the same age as you.

But when you arrive at the NBA, it's a whole new world. And so when I first played the first couple games, I had no idea that Pop would start me after five games. And that was maybe the first time that I was like, man, if pop trust me like that um maybe i have a chance to do something the draft itself was a mystery to you and it's funny reading the book and how you you kind of had it nailed you know you said you and your father done all this research we're like look if we go now we're gonna go to a better team because we're going to go late. But I'd always heard the Celtics stories. What happened?

What happened with the lead up, the workouts, and then minutes before you thought you were going? Tell us that whole story. It was crazy. I was sitting down with my daddy, my agent, and you have the lady from the NBA. She comes and get me because I was in a crowd. You know, I was very high because I was not a lottery pick. And she comes and she said, the Celtics Celtics want to draft you here's the cap and I hold the cap maybe for like 45 seconds after they came back it's like I know they're not going to draft you they

changed their mind and I was like oh my god I went back up to my seat and just waited and thank enough for the Spurs to kept their word and and they drafted me did pop like you at first no no no not at all not at all it was rc buford and sam prestig they did to find me you know in france and forced pop to to watch my tapes probably even want to watch my tapes he was like the point guy from france like no way and uh and then then RC and Sam convinced him and did the first workout I was terrible in the first workout he never wanted to see me again and RC and Sam had so much trust in me and confidence that he forced pop to do a second workout and then I played good in the second workout and then pop told me okay we're going to draft you but we're going to have to do some

stuff in the draft to go higher because there's no way you're going to be available at 28. Everybody's saying you're going to go like 20 or 21 to Boston because Boston that year had three picks in the first round, so they could have taken a risk on the European. And then I fell all the way down to 28, so they have to give up nothing, and they had me, so it was perfect for them. Yeah, because you say how bad Boston wanted you, and then you're like, okay, they had 10, 11,

they took Joe Johnson, they took Kedrick Brown, and then they took Forte at 21, and I would always read it as, boy, they really wanted you. They passed on you three times. Did they ever tell you what happened? No, the story they told me, it was like North Carolina. It was a good friend.

We were at Auerbach, and that's why they did that thing with Joe Forte. At the time, Joe Forte had a great career in North Carolina. He was playing very well. So it's hard to argue, especially like I said earlier in the interview. At the time, no European point guard

made it in the NBA, so why a little French guy from Normandy? That's why it was very risky. What was the biggest American thing that you were like, okay, it's different. You're calling your buddies back home. And it's cool to read in the book how close you are with all your friends,

how you made them part of your journey. Boris and Rony were players that were of your generation. They make it to the pros. But that first American experience, the thing that you were like, okay, this is how it's different here in this country. the thing that you were like, okay, this is how it's different here in this country? Just the discipline and the dedication and the weight in the right room and how fast the game was going. That was the stuff that I thought it was very different from Europe.

So Popovich didn't like you, but he doesn't like anybody. Eventually he loves you. The great thing about Pop is I've always heard it described as this real almost militant attitude where, hey, we're going into a fight, we're going to fight all the time. But it seemed like you, because I remember those first games, he was yelling at you all the time. But it seems like the only person that liked you less was perhaps Duncan.

What was that first year with Tim like? First of all, for Pop, he crossed the line many times. It was funny. I'm a Jersey Retirement when he started to apologize to me. People were like, why did he do that? You have no idea the way he was cursing. He'd insult you, right? What would he say to you?

What's the worst thing Pop would say to you? I don't want to curse on your show. You can. I don't want to curse on your show. You can. I don't know. I don't want to curse on your show. But it was really bad words. Really bad words. But that was his way, you know, to get you going, you know, and get you motivated. And for me, he came from a good place and he was very competitive and he wanted to win and it was fine with me.

And you can either take it or not take it. And I decided to take it and go on the ride with him. And it paid off big big time and with Timmy same thing Timmy didn't talk to me the whole first year didn't say a word to you for the year for your rookie year didn't talk to you no no but he was a you know he was a superstar and maybe he had doubts you know that a little French point guard can bring him to the championship you know and so the point guard position is very important and so so that's why the first year, the first time he talked to me is after I had a good series against Gary Payton in the Seattle Supersonics.

And I played well in that series. And Gary was one of the best point guards in the NBA. And so I think Timmy saw that if I can play like that against Gary, then I can maybe play like that against anybody. And that gave me a lot of confidence, obviously. And then I played good against the Lakers too. They eventually won the championship, the Lakers, but I had a good series. And after that summer, that's when I saw the difference with Timmy.

And even most of my teammates, they were like, okay, we can go to war with him. What was Gary like the first time you played him? He was tough. He was tough. He was tough. And he was one of my idols. Growing up, Michael Jordan was my idol. But at the point guard position, I looked up to Magic and Gary Payton. I loved Gary's confidence and the way that he was playing,

the way he carried himself. I always loved watching him play when I woke up every night at 3 in the morning to watch his games. And so when I finally played every night at three in the morning to watch his games. And so when I finally played against him in the playoffs, it was like, man, it was like a dream. I was like, man, I'm playing against Gary. So it gave me a lot of motivation that I wanted to show that I belong in this league. And I was so happy to play against him.

And since then, he's always been great to me every time I met him. You know, as we're talking this through here, I almost feel like we're not giving you enough credit because maybe I'm assuming too much because it was instant though. They made you the starter right away. You're 19 out of the draft. And even the numbers, I mean, the numbers, this isn't like you were scoring four or five points a game

the first couple of years and figuring out you were producing right away, even though you had much bigger scoring options. So was there ever a part where you thought, maybe this is actually easier than i thought it was growing up worshiping these players and yet here you are and you're out there on a good team and you're you're really productive and he makes you the starter so soon in your career no not really how easy i know is the wrong word but you know what i mean like i wonder if there's ever a moment where you go wait i know what you mean i know what you mean but I never felt like that.

I always felt like I had to prove something. And once you achieve your goal, you want to go higher. And so at first it was being a good backup, then a good starter. And then let's try to be an all-star. And then after that, you were like, you know what? I want to have an impact in this league. And I want people to remember me, you know, after I'm done playing,

you know? And so being an ambassador for, for French basketball and, and the hall of fame, all that kind of stuff is like, you never, never, that's not a goal,

but once you're in it, you like to try to, let's try to go as high as we can. And let's try to win as many championships as we can. Duncan, maybe it's his approach, maybe it's his approach, maybe it's his personality, but I feel like there's always this list of players

that get mentioned before him. But if there was a wing that had five championships, I don't know that we would put some of these others ahead of him. Give me, I know it's going to be biased. I think I'm biased because I liked him so much. I just felt like for years, you're like, I'm just going to ride that guy.

Like, just give me him. Give me your first-person perspective of having somebody like him be your franchise player versus somebody like Kobe. Well, it's different positions, you know. So it depends, you know, what you have in your team. But I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. You know, Timmy had five championships. Kobe has five championships.

Both of them were great leaders. And so, to me, with any of them, they have the mentality that they show up every night. Why? There's obvious stuff with his fundamental approach that he didn't need the ball all the time. You could run that post, you know, where you would immediately cut off

of it. He could set up in different spots. I always thought it was funny that he was so determined to say he wasn't a center when really he was basically playing center in your closing offense. Why was he always so freaked out about the power forward center thing? I don't know. Maybe out of respect of David Robinson

because David was the center. He started as a power forward and like that he can play with him. And he just kept it like that the whole time, I guess. But he was definitely playing a lot of center, for sure. But he played a lot of power forward too.

And to me, he's the best power forward of all time. Your first impressions of playing with Manu? Because I think Pop may have yelled at him more than he yelled at you at times. No, he definitely yelled more at me. You can't ask

anybody at the Spurs. They will tell you that for sure. I have the gold medal on that. But he definitely screamed a lot on Manu. That's for sure. Because he was so creative. And I think Pop thought he was crazy when he first got him. With his crazy passes and all that kind of stuff.

But Manu was great. He was unique in his own way. And me, because I followed Europe, I knew Manu way before he arrived with the Spurs because I was watching the EuroLeague and he was playing great in Italy. And so when he finally decided to come to San Antonio, I was super excited because I knew

we were getting a great player. Now, you mentioned in the book, and it's true, you know, you could have left, you could have made more money.

I know in 2003, how upset were you about the Jason Kidd free agency thing? Because that was, hey, this team just won another title, but wait,

they can go ahead and grab Jason Kidd and take your spot. At the time, I totally understand because nobody could have predicted what It's going to take your spot. At the time, I totally understand because nobody could have predicted what I was going to do as a player during this career. So you go after Jason Kidd,

who's one of the best point guards, maybe the best point guard at the time in the NBA. I totally understand. Yeah, and you also, like you say, hey, so many players want to go to New York. They want to go to Los Angeles. What was it about you three guys and Manu and Tim where you took less money and you loved San Antonio? You loved this city that so many other NBA players, at least of this generation, would eventually say, oh, no, I want to go somewhere else.

What was different about your team? You just feel it. You know, I felt like we had something special. And I always, like, never took it for granted. I felt very blessed to be in San Antonio with great people, great fans, great city. That's why I didn't want to leave. When you have something special and the people around you feel the same way, you just realize that that's worth all the money in the world.

Tougher loss for you, the 13 finals or the Derek Fisher shot? you just realize that that's worth all the money in the world. Tougher loss for you, the 13 finals or the Derek Fisher shot? 13 finals, game six. You're still saying it, right? Yeah, it's not even close. Yeah, no, it's not even close. For me, that's the biggest loss in my career, for sure. What was it like that night?

Did you guys go out to dinner after game six? Yeah, we had dinner and it was a horrible dinner. That's for sure. Because everybody was like so down and we had one more game to play. So, but it was hard to digest what just happened. But I thought if you take into consideration what happened, we gave it a great effort in game seven. But did you think there was,

in the book, you basically kind of feel like, yeah, we're not going to win this. Is that how you felt at the time? It was a weird feeling because you're like, man, if that happened and it goes that way, you know, for them, you just feel like maybe it's their year, you know, but I thought we fought it pretty hard.

You know, game seven was pretty tough. In 2007, you win the NBA championship, sweeping LeBron, you win a finals MVP, which I love that you admit how important that was to you. Why did you stop talking to everybody during that stretch? Because you thought it was because you didn't want to jinx your chance of winning the NBA finals I just wanted to stay focused I just wanted to stay focused and I was realizing that I could have become you know the first European and so I just wanted to stay laser focused and then finish the job and so you stopped reading all media stuff time during that time though correct yeah I was trying to make Papa happy, not talk to the media, you know. He had that part down. Now, moving towards the role you have now in Asvel, a team that you grew up attached to, and now you're part of the ownership, and you even have a kid, Theo, going in the draft tonight, depending on where he ends up going. What is that like for you, changing the perspective of the player

that works for the team, and you're going to look at it kind of selfishly, and now you can't be selfish as someone that oversees a franchise? No, I'm very proud of Theo. Knowing him since he's 12 years old, when he came to my basketball camp and followed him ever since, we come from the same region and had a good... when he was 16 with Asvel. And we won a championship together in 2019.

And it's funny to be on the other side. You know, I feel like I can now understand what Pop and RC was feeling when they saw my career and the way I was growing. Now to see him, you know, becoming a man and being in the draft, I'm excited for him tonight. And hopefully he goes to a good team and have a and being in the draft. I'm excited for him tonight. Hopefully he goes to a good team

and have a successful career in the NBA. Does that mean a lot of your, like a guy like James Borrego or other guys that are on staffs now are calling you about him all the time? A lot of people are calling right now, especially at draft time, for sure. It's funny to just be on the other side. It's funny when you have your old teammates like Malik Rose,

all the people that I know that, you know, having great jobs, you know, and now we're all on the other side. It's funny. Who was the one guy, as we have a few more questions for you, the one guy that you, you're so competitive and you're so confident. So I don't mean to say that, but there had to have been one player like, okay, this is going to be tougher. Like who was the one other point guard that you're like competitive and you're so confident so i i don't mean to say that but there had to have been one player like okay this is going to be tougher like who was the one other point guard that you're like okay he's coming up on friday night like this is gonna be a battle no i have like a one guy uh because when i was playing it was like the golden generation you know because

you had like jason kate and gary payton was still playing. And then Steve Nash and then Chris Paul, Darren Williams, so Westbrook, Steph Curry. I all played them. We were all playing at the same time. And we were all in our primes. One year in the All-Star game,

it was like four or five point guards, you know, in the team. Like it was so many point guards because we were all playing at a high level. And so it's not one guy. To me, it was just great to play in a generation where it was so many great point guards because we were all playing at a high level and so it's not one guy to me it was just great to play in a generation where it was so many great point guards and it was a great challenge every night was there one point guard perhaps though that changed your defensive

approach not just for you but as a team where you know i think steph in his peak impacts the way you're constantly paying attention to him was was steve like that? Or was it Baron Davis who physically... Yeah, if I had to choose, maybe Steph Curry. We definitely had to pay more attention to him. And Steve Nash to a certain extent too. When they had those great years in Phoenix, Chris Paul too in New Orleans. He was really, really tough in New Orleans.

So I'll say that was the three that maybe we had to do more stuff in defense. You come back, you win that title in 2014. It seemed like you were so motivated. How important was the 13 loss to drive what I thought was a team? Like you guys were mad the whole season, it felt like. And I imagine that played a big part. Yeah, we won a mission.

We won a mission in 2014, that's for sure. And that's why I think that played a big yeah we want a mission we want a mission in 2014 that's for sure and that's why I think we played so so good is because 13 hurt so much that when we when we came back we were like like a lot of people were writing us off and saying oh we missed our last opportunity we too old and to show that character and bounce back and the way we played in the finals I think that was maybe the best Spurs basketball in my whole career. At the end, your last season is Kawhi's last season. We know the story. How difficult was that for your generation of Spurs players?

Were you always bought in? It was the team, it was the team, it was the team. And then for Kawhi to just basically say, I want out of here. What was that like? How was that challenging uh everybody is different i only have good stuff to say about kawaii i had great years with him uh we were playing unbelievable uh together uh we won a championship together uh so me uh i feel very blessed that i played with him all those years because he was very good for us

and uh and then he decided to do something else that's everybody is right really happy for you man from the story and how the book builds up you know hey this confident guy that was being doubted all the time and every time you show up at every competition you bust everybody and you did it throughout your nba career man. And now you're really, really successful businessman. So I would encourage everybody to check it out beyond all my dreams. Tony Parker, NBA champ. Thanks, man. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. Take care. Rarely is the busiest week of my year, uh, also in the middle of football season as it is. So we're going to make some time here on a draft Wednesday for Andy Staples, one of my favorite college football guys from the athletic. Talked to him for years. I did a video recently where I just kind of ripped through as

we would do on the radio show. Hey, here are the teams that are still alive for a college football playoff. I try to have an open mind about all of this stuff, but in the moment, it kind of changes that open mind. I don't know where the surprise is. I really don't know where it is. You tell me if I'm wrong. So in the last few hours, we've had the very interesting piece of news that the Pac-12 is going to allow non-conference games. And I do think that may add to the list by a couple teams, because I'm not sure Oregon would have been on that list if they were just playing a Pac-12 schedule. I'm just not sure that they would have faced good enough competition.

USC's still undefeated. It's a great assumption, by the way, because you go through the schedule and you go, all right, and then you even see the Washington State struggle last weekend and you're going, okay. As I interrupt you, I just want to tell you you're absolutely on point because you needed a 7-0 USC who still doesn't look that good the first two weeks. Right. The two USC wins should have been losses. So that doesn't prove anything.

But what if Oregon could suddenly schedule BYU or Cincinnati? And both those teams need it too. And I think we've seen enough from BYU and Cincinnati to know that if Oregon beat them, it would mean a lot, and that if they beat Oregon, it would probably mean a lot. So that might add some flavor to it, but other than your list of, you know, Clemson, Notre Dame, Alabama, Florida, maybe Texas A&M, Ohio State, that's kind of the list. Otherwise, Ohio State. That's kind of the list. Otherwise, the Big 12 doesn't seem to... You could add those in. And I don't know exactly what that would mean,

but we wanted to see BYU play somebody good. Now, maybe they can. Cincinnati has been destroying people. And there are good teams in that league, and Cincinnati has made them look foolish. So I'd love to see them play Oregon. We know, we're supposed to get Oregon, Ohio state this season. That would have been amazing in September. I'll take Oregon, Cincinnati in December. If they can make that happen. When I look at Clemson, I think Clemson kind of tells a story about some of these other teams as well. Because I never, you know, for any of us that sit here before a season and go, oh, nobody's eating Clemson. Nobody's, we do that too often. And then we're like, I can't believe these teams lost. You're like, Hey, most of them actually end up finding a way to lose. But if there's one common thread about Clemson that applies to the other ones is what do we know about Clemson right

now? Well, we saw in that Notre Dame game, they got pushed around by Notre Dame. That was not a fluke and they don't have the D lineline that they normally have which again what they normally have is insane so that standard is almost unobtainable so it's not necessarily knocking those guys but that's a different that's a a lesser of a front line that they have defensively but then I think wait I think the same goes for Alabama and nobody has it this year. No one has it in Ohio State. So here are the three, yeah, they're in. And again, I'm not dismissing Notre Dame because I still think Clemson is very much alive in this thing,

so that's not what I mean by doing that. But you're right. This is a group, that's a unit, that historically is great for all three of those teams, and I don't think any of them would say, hey, this is one of our better groups. If you could go back to last year and reach into last season and take Auburn's defensive line

and put it on any of these teams, it would guarantee a national title for that team. God, I love that. I love that defensive line so much. I miss it already. Because I get asked this question a lot in SEC country, like,

why can't anybody stop anybody in the SEC? Is it because the pandemic? Is it because there was no spring practice? And it's because stuff is cyclical. And right now, there's some pretty good quarterbacks in the league. There's some really good receivers in the league. There are not a ton of great D linemen in the league right now. There is no Derrick Brown. There is no Quinton Williams, Derron Payne. That guy's not there right now. So that's one of the reasons why so many teams are scoring so easily. And yeah, if any of those contenders, let's say it was Alabama or Florida or Texas A&M actually

may have the closest guy in DeMarvin Leal, but they don't have the rest of it on defense to show it. So I mean, if anybody had that guy, it would automatically elevate them. So, I mean, if anybody had that guy, it would automatically elevate them. Have you allowed yourself to live in a world where Florida just beats Alabama in the SEC title game? Yeah, yeah. No, since I saw them beat Georgia the way they beat Georgia, I thought, okay, they are a much better matchup for Alabama than Georgia is. Alabama's defense has not been great this season. I mean, I watched Ole Miss score 49 points on them. You know, that game looks like a shootout, you know, to answer

Nick Saban's question from 2012. Yes, this is what we want football to look like. I mean, it's pretty entertaining. And that Alabama-Florida game looks like it could be the most entertaining game of the year. Yeah, yeah. I think that it's, you know, there are moments where I feel like we'll have teams that are really good defensively at the end of the year. You'll look at it like Georgia last year.

They ended up number two, I think, in overall defense. And shredded by LSU's offense. LSU shredded them. So then, you know, people will look at that game and be like, oh, that Georgia defense. You're like, wait,

somebody has to be a top five defense by the end of the season. So I hold out hope at times that Alabama can figure some things out defenses you're like wait somebody has to be a top five defense by the end of the season so I I hold out hope at times that Alabama can figure some things out and at the same time like Florida I felt like the Ole Miss game was a lot like the LSU games last year where they were up and then it was like oh they're giving up a ton of yards here do you have a defense between those two that you trust more now eight games in Probably Alabama's because those guys have been in those situations before. Florida, these guys have not been in the situation of competing

for a conference title, even though some of them were on a team in 2016 as redshirt guys that won an East title. They weren't really there. The East was awful. They couldn't even score on Florida State. They weren't really deserving of being there. If they went to East this year, they absolutely deserve to be there and should be competitive in that game. But the Alabama guys have, have done this. You know, they've dealt with this. The Florida guys, it's, it's all new to them and they still haven't dealt with the kind of talent that they're going to have to deal with against Alabama.

The one thing that makes Alabama and Florida a little bit different is it feels like Alabama has the offensive line to just run the ball and milk clock if they need to. The thing about Alabama that I like, and this has become my new kind of thing, the drum I beat over and over again, is they can beat you in a multitude of ways. And the teams that can beat you in a multitude of ways are the ones that can win national titles. Florida right now, we don't know if they can win a game that isn't a shootout. You know, can they win a low-scoring game? Now, I will say Florida's defense, since they got everybody back,

since the Georgia game probably would be the closest one to a full group that they expected to be playing all season, they've been pretty good. So I don't know that Florida's defense is as bad as we think it is full group that they expected to be playing all season. They've been pretty good. So I don't know that Florida's defense is as bad as we think it is because we saw them give up points to Ole Miss. I think the more troubling game for Florida's defense was Texas A&M where they were running the ball down their throats in the second half. But again, you get Kyrie Campbell back on the D line. Suddenly you're a lot deeper.

Brenton Cox is getting better with each game. He's not biting on a lot of those run fakes and crashing. He's keeping contained. That sort of thing adds up as the season goes on. I think by the time they play, it could be a fairly even matchup.

How different is the Big Ten today than what your expectations were in the summer? There's no middle. I feel like Purdue and Northwestern played different as the big 10 today than what your expectations were in the summer. There's no middle. Like I think, I feel like Purdue and Northwestern played for the middle last week. And so Northwestern won it and it's, it's Ohio state and Wisconsin and maybe Indiana, but you feel good about Wisconsin now after, after watching, I do, I do. I mean, given what they,

they didn't have and they just manhandled Michigan now I realize Michigan's not that good, but I do feel I do. I mean, given what they didn't have and they just manhandled Michigan. Now, I realize Michigan's not that good, but I do feel good about Wisconsin. I love Graham Mertz. You know, I was excited when he signed to see what he would turn into because they've never had a quarterback recruit of that level. And it was a case where he had committed and then the rest of the country kind of got hip to him. And he's getting offers from everybody. No, I want to play for Wisconsin. So I think they're up there. I don't know that they can beat Ohio State. Ohio State's another level talent-wise.

But they are at the top of the league. And then there's a lot of bottom in the Big Ten. And that's the problem. There's a lot of teams that just stink. And so I don't know that Ohio state necessarily gets challenged along the way. You know, maybe Wisconsin is that challenge, but it's, it's hard because you just don't know who's good. I, I do think Northwestern is probably pretty good. They had a great defense last year and were one in eight in the league because their offense was one of the worst

offenses you have ever seen. And now it is it is you know a functional offense and with that great defense they can win games yeah that's what i loved about them going for two when they would argue about the math i'd be like i don't think that math applies to you guys i don't know you guys i don't think you should look at the mass data charts on on two-point history maybe you guys just kick it um anyway uh i don uh, I don't know. That's, that's my whole thing with some of the football stuff where I'm like, wait a minute, what? Like you're supposed to now go for two up to and lose by field goal. That's weird. But people have told me that wind charts tell you that you're, you know, you're more likely to win because of that. Like I've seen the charts. I've seen the charts. If, were the SEC, how quickly would Northwestern have an outbreak of COVID

and not be able to play in the Wisconsin game? No, listen, I think everybody wants to play. But yeah, it is one of those where if you look at the history of that series, Northwestern plays Wisconsin so tight. And even when Wisconsin is much, much better, that's always a really close game. So yeah, now here's the really close game. So, yeah. Now, here's the thing. Wisconsin's got to play.

You've got to have them play because the Big Ten said you've got to play six games to qualify for the title game. So, Wisconsin's got to play. They can't have any opponents duck out, even if it helps the conspiracy theory. Yeah, I'm trying to think which coach the rest of the SEC guys would get together and say, hey, if they need six, let's start having some outbreaks here.

Who do they dis? I don't know that there's one. Saban has too much respect. If there was a pile up on him. I think Dan Mullen is getting up there. Yeah, that's a good one. Honestly, I don't think he minds. And this is what I keep telling the Florida people.

You guys have complained for years and years and years about your coaches. Even when Urban Meyer was winning national titles, you didn't like him because you didn't win the way you wanted him to win. So this is what Florida fans want from their coach. They want him to score a ton of touchdowns and say things that piss people off. Well, Dan Mullen is those things right now.

So they gotta be thrilled with it. Now, look, if you lose, then you can't say that stuff, but he's in perfect shape. So I think it would be him right now in the sec. It's not like the rest of the big 10 doesn't like dislike Paul Chris.

I mean, this is a man who, who, when he goes, turnover chain, my belief in belief, he puts his shirt up over his lips before he even says it. You know who would, if you, Freeze, were still at Ole Miss, that would be the guy. Oh my God, they would do whatever they could. That would be the guy.

They would do whatever. And it's P.J. Fleck and James Franklin in the Big Ten. That's on both sides, you know, where the other coaches just don't like them. And I think a lot of it is professional jealousy. No, I think Fleck's annoying. That's him, though. It's not like you can go, oh, I don't like this. You can have one saying.

No, but you can have one saying. You can't have three. You can't. If you'reick. It's not shtick. No, but you can have one saying. You can't have three. You can't. If you're going to row the boat, that's fine. Row the boat. But you can't be elite in everything. You can't be, hey, how are you doing? Be an elite.

We're doing elite stuff today. It's like if Russell Wilson had a glitch and then all of a sudden. You can't be a three sayings guy. One saying per guy. That's a rule. I can't disagree with that. Tom and I love each other, and I don't think he has any other ones. And he's a wrestler, so I'm cool with that.

Exactly. Exactly. I want to see him saying love each other in a singlet now. That's the – Mike Gundy is the only coach we each other in a singlet now. That's the... Mike Gundy's the only coach we've seen in a singlet. I think every coach should have to wear a singlet at some point in their career. I feel like I had more Big Ten stuff, but I don't really know what else. Oh, yeah, let me give you...

Let's just do... Give me your heart. Well, wait, you just got excited about something. So you take it where you want to take it, but I have to ask Harbaugh as well. Oh, Jim Harbaugh in a singlet? No, I think we've seen him at the satellite camp with the shirt off. I'd like to see a single big win here this season, which I don't think I'm going to see. The Harbaugh thing, it just feels like it's run its course.

I mean, and I've had this theory for the past few years that, you know, that Jim Harbaugh, the offensive genius going back to Stanford and then, Stanford and then what he did at the 49ers. Because when he got to Michigan and they were kind of struggling to really develop an offensive identity, I was like, well, okay, what happened here? Because this was a guy who was running the read option in the NFL and having success with it and going to the Super Bowl doing this. That is innovative for that league.

So what happened? What happened was Greg Roman worked with him. And you look at the Ravens and Greg Roman is doing great things with Lamar Jackson. And that offense is, you know, he's basically making it, he's providing the cheat sheet for anybody who wants to bring a spread quarterback from college into the NFL. And the thing is, without him, Harbaugh hasn't really ever established an identity offensively. And now they've got an identity on defense,

but they don't recruit to it. Like, great, you want to play man. Well, you better sign two top 10 corners every year. But you don't. So why are you going to make him play man? Why are you asking him to do something they can't do? I mean, that, that is, that's the, you know, proverbial bang your head against the same brick wall over and over and expecting a different result. Like I don't get it. And I feel like it's run its course. I don't see how you come

back from this. He's got one year left on his contract. And I'm the guy who just wrote, hey, ADs, don't be dummies and feel like you have to extend everybody five years because that's how you wind up owing Will Muschamp $15 million. But you do have to make a decision on Jim Harbaugh because if he's going into his last year on the contract, either extend him or you don't. And I would lean toward you don't because it just feels like it's run its course there. I can't believe that it happened again. I mean, part of it is we didn't realize in Minnesota, it was terrible. So the beginning of the year, you're looking at Milton going, okay, they finally got their guy. I was never a Shea Patterson guy, but then you're always like, oh, I think I like the backup, you know? And my pro Harbaugh arguments were, wait, like the thing about Harbaugh is it was turning earlier

than I thought it should have. Cause I was like, look, none of you guys beat Ohio state. Unless it's the weird Luke fickle year. Um, you were a play away from being in the playoff. You were in the mix. I think at the close of two seasons of being potentially a playoff team in the beginning. And I've been over this, but I go, what is the standard? That's insane. And now it's just, it's so much worse. But the momentum against him built so much earlier than I thought it should have. And part of that is a Michigan fan base that is bad at counting their own national championships. It's also an alumni group of players that are i would put michigan football alums up there you know you want to talk about the south i think that group is as difficult

and is critical and is ready to turn the page as any group of football players with a program they're tough yeah and and i mean go back to the rich rod thing they never got behind him he never had support from them or from the administration they made the fucking guy cry yeah and all like and he opened up he was singing josh groban at the time come on yeah but he you know he he opened up to me like i got to hang out with him remember at espn after that and you wanted to give rich rod a hug man like you were like he was that was all right anyway go ahead yeah i, I just, I've never understood that. Like, why not get behind the hire?

And it feels like they feel like it has to be a certain type of guy. It has to fit a certain mold. And, you know, on my podcast, we talk a lot. We've talked a lot last few weeks about if you replaced Harbaugh, who would you replace him with? And my co-host, Ari Washington, keeps bringing up P.J. Fleck. And I always say, a Michigan man does not row a boat. And that's exactly what they'd say. They would say, we can't have a guy doing all that shtick with nine sayings.

We have one saying, go blue, and hail to the victors' valiant. Maybe two, one and a half. So they're not going to do that. But I think the thing is, it're not that it's not impossible. Like it's not impossible for them to beat Ohio State. It's not impossible for them to run the Big Ten. You know, they are because every so well, the academic standards, they offered most of the guys who wound up signing with Ohio State, which means they can take them, too. So it's not like you can't get those players. And I was talking with Matt Fortuna, who writes for us at The Athletic the other day,

and he made a great suggestion. If you want to make a change, you fire that money candidate, Mario Cristobal, and you have him recruit nationally and build a long line of scrimmage just like he has at Oregon, and I bet you would have a team that could compete with Ohio State in two or three years. Man, I hadn't thought about Cristobal because he brought it up. I was like, oh, that's good. And Oregon hasn't paid him yet. So it's very much in play.

Or if he wants to stay at Oregon, he'll stay at Oregon. Because the crazy thing post-Chip was all of the recruiting stuff was supposed to be over. And we heard it all at chip's gone. The uniform thing. It's not cool. Everybody's running that attack. It's not a big deal. That's why you USC and UCLA,

these teams will come back. They'll start keeping their California kids. And instead Arizona state and Oregon don't give a shit. And Herm knew exactly what he was doing. Hiring all these former guys with not only like an Antonio Pierce, but guys with ties. Antonio Pierce walks into your house with his Super Bowl ring on. Of course, you're going to be like, yeah, wait, Tempe?

Sure. He's like a real California guy, too, and he's tough as hell. And all of those dudes on that staff, they're just picking them off at California. And then Oregon, when you look at their national ranks, forget their Pac-12 ranks because they're beating everybody. So that's actually become worse. Like, Cristobal's doing a better job recruiting than chip was up there. Oh, absolutely. Chip,

chip was not a great recruiter. You know, chip was a schematic genius. They did have some recruiting victories, but a lot of those were recruiting victories based on somebody overlooking somebody. Okay. You don't know that DeForest Buckner, the basketball player from Hawaii is going to grow into a great defensive lineman. They found him and projected him really well. Mariota was not heavily recruited. So they found some guys. Yeah, Masoli was kind of all over the place too.

Oh, exactly. And that's the thing. Even the receivers, because they were just kind of perfect for their male. And then you had this paradigm-shifting offense that was taking advantage of a recently changed rule that allowed you to go fast that nobody knew how to handle. And this is what I say about Chip at UCLA. He's got to show that he can win conventionally now

because he doesn't have that paradigm-shifting move. Because how often are you going to have that in your career? I mean, he changed the way everyone plays football. Everybody. He changed the way they play offense. He changed the way they play defense. He changed everything. You're only going to do that once in your career.

So now everybody's adjusted to him. He's got to figure out how to recruit more conventionally, play more conventionally. And the problem is, I'm not sure as a recruiter, he's going to be able to get the kind of talent that he needs to win conventionally. So if you were buying stock in Pac-12 teams three years from now, who would you go with? I mean, if you can promise me that Mario's staying at Oregon, I'm staying with them. But I like Arizona State. I like what with them, but I like Arizona state. I like what they're building there. I really do. I think, you know, and I was watching what they

did like along the line last year, they started a 17 year old at offensive tackle and let various Henderson should, he had no business starting at offensive tackle in the PAC 12 at age 17, but they've moved into right guard now, which is going to be his NFL position probably. They've moved into right guard now, which is going to be his NFL position probably. And he's the type of guy that if, you know, he's from Texas. He's like a three-star guy. They projected him. They saw something in him. So they got to get those guys first, and then you go start getting the four-

and five-star guys after you show that you can develop. Because once you show you can develop guys for the NFL, then that sort of makes its own gravy. And that's what Mario Cristobal has as an advantage over everybody else, because if Mario Cristobal walks into an offensive lineman's house, he can just pull out this list of offensive linemen that he's put in the NFL. And that's all they want is to be shown this will be a good path to the NFL. Big 12 go.

Do I have to? I mean, so you got Bedlam this week. This is a chance for Oklahoma State to show that there's not some sort of like wacky jinx with that series. Because there have been a lot of instances where Oklahoma State was better than Oklahoma and still lost the game anyway. It was almost like they had to be prohibitively better to win. This is a chance where it feels like they're about equal. Maybe Oklahoma State's a little bit better. They should win this game. So can they do it? And if they do, they're in the driver's seat in the league. And it's crazy to think, you know, Texas, if Texas wins out, can play for the Big 12 title too.

So I have no idea how we're going to regard Tom Herman by the end of the season, because you know, at the beginning of it, you're just like, oh God, I don't know how they keep going here. But if he winds up in the Big 12 title game, I mean, I would think he's okay, but you know, that's one of those things, Texas, you know, latter latter day, Mack Brown on has never been able to just win the games they're supposed to win. So this'll be a good test for him because if you win the games, you're supposed to to win you are in the big 12 title game if you don't then you're facing the same problem that you've faced your entire time there that charlie strong faced and that ended max time there yeah oklahoma wins this game then the big 12 is basically eliminated that's how it feels yeah i don't i don't know the big 12 is in

it now i know but i just don't like just don't like eliminating people early, Andy. I know you hot take guys. I'm with you. I remember when everybody eliminated Ohio State when they lost to Virginia Tech in 14. And Ohio State at the end of that season is one of the best teams you'll ever see. Okay.

While we mention Herman, which falls in line with Harbaugh, and you could even throw Franklin into there. But look, it's just a bad season. And now that they've made the switch to the Connecticut kid at quarterback, they look different. You kind of watch that and go, all right, you went with Clifford. Now, they were playing Nebraska. Let's not forget that.

Yeah, but I don't know that Nebraska is terrible with McCaffrey back there getting his first start. I look at Luke and go, all right, there's a little bit more of a dynamic here. Maybe people figure it out. I know he's not the most natural thrower. It actually fits perfectly for Nebraska history, a quarterback. With Levis at Penn State, it does feel like they can get the ball down the field a little bit. That was watching them the first few games of the season. It was different. Do you have anything that can get the ball down the field a little bit. That was watching them the first few games of the season. It was different.

Do you have anything that can get the ball more than 10 yards down the field? It didn't look like they did. As soon as Levis comes in, they start doing that. I think that probably should tell you everything you need to know. Yeah, he was athletic. A little toughness to him. Xavier, so you know he's tough

out of the jump. That's a private school in Middletown, Connecticut. We got to go off Xavier, so you know he's tough. Out of the jump. That's a private school in Middletown, Connecticut. We got to go off Stanford, Steve. I need a scouting report on all the Connecticut high schools. Xavier was the option for me, and then I moved. I moved to Massachusetts, so that was not going to happen.

I want to stay on this bigger picture thing because it's very simple for all of us from the outside. This is where I have a lot of respect for the writers where you're on the beat back when things are normal, but all the years that you've put into this, we're talking a lot of you guys, almost two decades now of being around coaches.

You go to these seminars. Feldman's always a guy I admire so much of just how connected he is on all the coaches he goes to the strength coach seminar right he'll be like the strength coach yeah he likes this guy a lot he's got a 37 inch vertical jump bruce doesn't like the impersonations he's texting me i know he does so yeah so i stay away from him. Why can't a guy run a program? How does Tom Herman go from everybody wants him to it doesn't work? Where Harbaugh, I still think, would get hired if he got fired tomorrow. And Franklin, who, back to the Penn State point,

it'd be completely unfair to now say, oh, I don't know about this guy now. Yeah, I mean, he's already won the Big Ten there. I don't think you put Franklin in this discussion. I agree. Certain programs are very hard to run. Texas is one of those. Look at the history of Texas.

The history of Texas is really two good coaches, the really good part of it. It's Darryl Royal and the first 10 years of Mack Brown. The rest of it is very mediocre. USC is very similar, too. There's some McKay, some John Robinson, and then there's Pete Carroll. And the rest of it is mediocre. It's not like, I think we get confused because like we see Ohio state and they're always good.

Like there's never been a time that Ohio state has been bad at football. Almost everybody else has their laws. Like Alabama was one of those programs for a while. It felt like. They couldn't find the right guy. Yeah. Cause they're like, Dennis Macione says, Hey, I'm going to go to A&M. Yeah. Cause I, cause I can't go to the grocery store here without getting mobbed. And, and yeah, I mean, it was a, it was a, think about that.

So Bear Bryant's last season was 1982. Now Gene Stallings did win a national title and he played for another SEC title. But if you think about it, they really went 25 years between kind of perfect coaches for them. It's not that easy. It's not that easy at Texas because it is this giant monolith, huge bureaucracy in the administration that I think Chris Del Conte, their AD, has tried to kind of cut through a little bit since he's been there. But then you have this state that is rife with talent, but rife with politics as well. Because if you take a DN from Florida, well, why didn't you take

a DN from Texas? And the coaches get mad. They say, well, we're going to start turning to A&M or TCU or Baylor now. And it's a very hard job. And I think we should have figured that out by now. We keep saying, oh, it's the easiest job. No, it's not. It is not an easy job. Like Georgia is an easier job because in the state of Georgia, when you walk around, everybody's got a bulldog flag. They don't have these weird kind of unwritten rules about, oh, you can't take a kid from out of state or we're going to get pissed off at you. You know, they don't do that. Ohio is not like that either.

So Texas is its own animal. Michigan got the administration, the alumni group, but they just, they don't always pull in the same direction. Like, you know, one thing Nick Saban did was got Alabama pulling in the same direction because when Mal Moore went to him to hire him from the Miami Dolphins, Nick Saban said, look, I can stay here if I want. You've got to give me a compelling reason to take your job. And that compelling reason would be you. When I ask for something, you give it to me and you don't question it. And I don't have to make a case and I don't have to explain everything to you. When I ask, you give it to me. And I don't have to make a case. And I don't have to explain everything to you.

When I ask, you give it to me. And that is essentially the deal he got. And that's how he built the infrastructure that he wanted. And that's how he's created a system that's rolling. And like Dabo had to work for years to get that. I remember sitting in Dabo's office in, I want to say like 2012. And he said, he keeps going to his administration. And he's like, you know, you can't run a mule in the Kentucky Derby. And that it took him, you know, probably five, six years of being head coach before he started

getting what he wanted and everybody pulling in the same direction. So that's what you have to have. And even that isn't always guaranteeing success, but that's the, that's the cut line. They haven't always been able to do that. That's a great answer. I have no follow-up. Yeah. James Carville versus Will Ferrell. I just blacked out for a second. No, but I've wanted to, I've been thinking about this long form podcast, you know, which basically is a series with a little bit more music at it. Where I'm trying to find the right guy who's just going to tell me, and I'm not talking about the recruiting shit because I'm not interested in getting people into trouble.

But I would like help us from the outside understand what it's like to run one of these programs. The problem is the best guest is going to want another job and he's never going to do it. Exactly. You got to find someone who never wants to work in of these programs. The problem is the best guest is going to want another job, and he's never going to do it. Exactly. You've got to find someone who never wants to work in college football again. I need to find the right guy. And there's a couple people that I have enough of a relationship with, but I already know they want to be hired. And all the stuff that we would talk about,

we're just not going to be able to talk about it. We're not going to be able to talk about it that way. But I don't think anyone understands that. I think whenever college football at times becomes the most misunderstood sport because it's all new kids every fall and we pretend we know how good the teams are going to be and really we're just picking how well did you do in the bowl game and do you still have the quarterback from last year sorry here's and the chemistry changes every year too right right there's there's no carryover year to year in chemistry and there's rarely like

an established group of guys that have been there for a bunch of years you know three years two years it's not that long of a time but the ins and outs of the hey you got to go here you got to go meet at this this function you have to do this make sure you take this when Gus Malzahn retires from armor I hope he opens a chain of waffle houses and then just decides, I'm going to let it all rip. Because I'd love to know what it's like to coach at Auburn, because that's one of those places where there's always somebody in your ear.

It's always like little Auburn things. You're like, what? Yes, exactly. And that's saying something when you're plugged in around the SEC. Will you hear an Auburn thing and be like, are you fucking insane? That's happening down there. But you'll believe anything. Yeah, right. That's true. If you say, oh, it was an Auburn, you're like, okay, I

got you. I understand. So, all right. Hey, man, check out Andy Staples, The Athletic, and looking forward to these next few weeks. Thanks as always. Thank you, Ryan. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet.

What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Hey, lifeadvicer at gmail.com this one speaks to me and this one's going to be harsh okay don't use my real name don't worry we

haven't been doing much of that anyway all right he wants a compilation this is the first time anybody's ever asked for that kyle good email to pick here are you picking that because you want to edit a full life advice compilation thing for the end of the year well uh yes i'd rather not uh work out scheduling and stuff during christmas week or whatever it's only right it's the best cop out of anyone who has a good segment it's a compilation i love uh i wasn't ever big on that radio stuff though i i don't probably because i thought some of the local stuff he did back in the day was a little cheesy i mean shout out eddie annelman legend all all-time sports talk legend but he would do turkey sports turkey of the year around thanksgiving get it yeah yeah but i just go what do you guys but you know what people loved it people called in they nominated their sports turkey so i'm not even criticizing the segment i think you're just

you're well aware that it's not that's just just not my lane. You know, that's just not my lane. Okay. Here's the deal. Um, 39 divorce, have a pretty good job and live with my girlfriend recently told me she wants a ring. We've been dating for a year and a half. I love her, but she's a lot younger, still wants to party and go out with her friends till 3am. Whatever I can do with that. It won't last forever. You hope. Although look, um, as somebody that probably trends younger myself, I think the part of being older and dating somebody younger is it makes you feel young. If that's something I'm not like obsessed with being old or feeling like, oh, I'm so old, I'm so old. But I that's something that I prefer. So when guys talk about like the age gaps and some people like that's that's bullshit. I don't have anything to talk with about this person.

Um, I don't, I don't want to do any of that thing. Uh, I also get that too. You know what I'm saying? It's like criticizing another guy for liking a hair type that's different from the hair type you like, like, Hey, we're all different. It doesn't matter. But if you're 39 and she's going out all the time, staying up till 3am and you're not going with her, that's, I don't know. I thought

maybe you were with her because that's part of it, but you just like, all right, fine. You love her. All right. Major problem. She wants a three carat ring ranging from 30 K to 50 K after spending 17,000 a ring for my first wife, which I never got back. I'm hesitant to shell out anything over 10,000 for another ring. She's told me that if I don't get her a nice ring ring it means i don't love her as much as my first wife absurd but i get it yeah it's fucking absurd man that's a that's a major flag just to hear a person say out loud i'm picturing this woman looking at you as you're arguing about the price of a ring that she doesn't even have yet and you're telling her you're going to get her the ring and her saying, you know, if you spend less than 17,000, it means you don't love me as much. Um, and by the way, she's not asking for one at 18,000. She's asking it to either between

30 and 50. That is, uh, I don't even know if I need to read the rest of the email, man. Okay. My financial situation is not awesome. Oh, cool. I have 70 grand tied up in United Airlines stock. Well, that's bad timing. I thought I would have recovered by now. It hasn't. My original plan was to invest in the beach house. I can hear that. Invest in the beach house when the stock doubled. A lot of us would just love to invest as soon as our stocks double, but not every stock doubles, but I get your point. United long-term company. Hey, people fly. It's really easy to work yourself and be like, Hey, what's up with this pharmaceutical? Hey man, people are going to stop getting sick.

Yeah, definitely. Let's buy more of it. So you wanted to take that money, invest in the beach house and then also have some cash for a nice ring. I envisioned having 150,000 at this point. I don't know. I don't. No, you don't. I got to tell you, your financial planning seems a tad simplistic and also slash hopeful.

With Christmas, Valentine's Day, and her birthday around the corner, I'm in a tough spot because she's expecting the ring. If I sell the stock now, I'm going to be kicking myself for what could have been. Yeah, because if you sell it now, the airline stuff, not great. Airlines are recovering little by little. Yes, and I don't want to miss the payday. I've been patient since I bought the stock in April. That's not real patient. You bought the stock in April, but you bought it at a good time. I see what you're doing here. Okay. So now you bought it when everything was kind of flat. I don't have the, I'm not going to pull up charts in front of me here, but I can pretty much guess what you were doing. So now you thought, Hey, I'm going to buy these dips. Then it's going to double. Then I'm going to buy a beach house. I mean, a lot of

this stuff, look, we've all done this exercise, but I wouldn't call it the most stable financial planning. I think all of us would agree. I think you would agree with that. Okay. So do I wait until the stock fully recovers to buy the ring so we can live more comfortably or I sell the stock now and buy a reasonable ring or I just say, who gives a fuck and buy her the ring she wants and start saving all over again for the beach house. Hope you have a chance to respond. Okay.

So, I think we all know what my advice is going to be and that would be don't sell the stock because she's demanding a ring. So, I would just hit her right back with her own game plan here.

If you're going to sit there and tell me that I don't love you as much because the ring doesn't cost more than my prior wife's ring. When I'm already telling you, I'm getting you the ring. Like I did have something similar like this happened to me where I'd already put the down payment on it. And the person was demanding the ring and I already knew I had it, but I was like, I didn't want to reward bad behavior, which is kind of how I looked at it. I was like, I don't want to give it to you because you're so mad at me.

I want to give it to you because I want to spend the rest of my life with you. Not, oh, man, you're driving me crazy. Here's your ring. But again, this is the male perspective of it. And maybe those of us that are men don't understand that female part of it. I'm trying to be really nice, but it's also maybe it's just fucking lunatic behavior that is completely unacceptable. Because this idea that, hey, I'd rather you be more fucked up financially as long as I have something cool to show other people. Like, think about that.

Think about how stupid this whole thing is. Hey, do you want a house? No. Sushi lunches, I'd like a ring as big as thing is. Hey, do you want a house? No. Sushi lunches. I'd like a ring as big as Diana's. Okay. Do people talk about the rings a lot? Like, I thought it was one of those.

Are you kidding me? No, no, no. I mean before. I just mean before the ring is purchased. Like, I know like. It depends. It's all over the place. Wedding rings.

Like, you guys can pick out wedding rings. But I thought it was one of those things you pop up and it's like, this is the thing i did here's the ring so it's some people go full surprise i think as you get older you better make sure you get the right one so you know it's it's amazing if you could be just like the movies or pam and jim where exactly honestly i don't think i don't think pam deserved that ring if you ask me but i i've just i think my experience i kind of wish i had less experience with this but let me just uh let me talk about my my friends that are female i think a lot of them would be like you know i'd rather have a little input on this thing that i hopefully i'm wearing the rest of my life and you know so i i think that part

but this is what i don't like about this what i think you should do is go and unfortunately maybe because she's younger she's showing some signs of immaturity here that maybe even trying to be reasonable and mature about it isn't even going to break through but um god i would just i would love if that were role reversed i would love the way it were treated on social media if you were like yes men demand a log cabin that the female pays for before the man knows that she's committed can you imagine can you imagine how that would play out like well you know i like her but this log cabin's pretty small. Kind of mossy. Like there's no brook.

How close is the... The brook's a mile and a half away. I don't know if you love me. I mean, Doug's got a bigger cabin. I think it's a red flag. Yeah, look, I would just say, hey, if you're saying,

if your rationale, and this is actually real here, if your rationale is that to show you how much I love you and that I love you more than my ex-wife, it's the price on the ring. Try to see it from my perspective and that if you love me as much as you say you love me

and you're going to accept that ring because you are down for marrying me and having a life together and you know spending the rest of our our life together until you get divorced um then you should you should be more a part of the team and the long-term planning of where I'm at right now. So I'm telling you, man, do not sell the stock just to make her Christmas better. And you already know that. You already know that. And if she dumps you because of that,

then I just saved you 30 grand. Those are the ones that piss me off, as you can you can tell okay this is a pretty heavy one but we're gonna go for it we're gonna try and i don't know i'm already a little uneasy about what i think i might say so we'll see how it goes all right 10 months ago i had a one-night stand with a co-worker before that my wife of 15 years is the only person i've ever slept with um this caused me so much mental anguish that I nearly had a full fledged mental breakdown. I confessed to my wife who was understandably crushed.

We have four kids all in elementary school. I've got to admit, I've thought about this scenario, uh, as somebody who's never been married, but if you ended up doing something and, uh, what that feeling would be like walking in the house that first time,

like turning the key. And that's if you still love your wife and love your family, and it's something that you hope to have. But if you just screwed up royally, one thing, if you were going to get a divorce, I've had some friends that they were going to get divorces. It was already known. And I had one buddy that was basically single while he was married. And I was like, what's going on here? He's like, yeah, it's so over. He's like, basically we're roommates. It's on. It doesn't matter. I was like, all right. So there's no, he's like, there's no guilt, none whatsoever. Like, I can't wait to get all the paperwork signed. So he put right now, we're just going to stay here. I was like, wow, that is, that's, that's worse than he's like, no, it's fine. I was like, wow, you really don't like each other.

So back to you, that's not your situation. And I can't imagine what that was like. I also wonder too, if that would make you a bad spy. I'm not trying to make light of your situation, but if you were to cheat on your spouse and it would drive you crazy, does that mean that you would be terrible in any of those other scenarios

or you'd have to kind of live out a lie? I don't know. Just something that popped in my head, almost unrelated to the email. My wife wants to give me a second chance, but she's now so easily triggered and entrusting. Oh, you think that she often erupts on me over nothing. Also, the old sexual faucet has been completely shut off. Not a surprise. I totally get why she reacts this way. Old sexual faucet has been completely shut off. Not a surprise. I totally get why she reacts this way. That's good.

This way. But obviously, that kind of life isn't good for either of us long term. Very smart. Yes, you're right. We are in weekly therapy, and I'm sure it's helping. But right now, it seems that just brings up bad memories and make things raw instead of healing anything. I have a really good job in a niche industry. Flexible hours. Making six figures.

Boom. College degree. Unrelated field. In the jobs that I'm actually qualified for, uh, pay no more than 50 K per year. My wife doesn't want me to quit the job and I'm spending 40 to 50 hours a week with this other woman. Wait, what? Oh, so you're working with, as you said, coworker. Okay. So I didn't, I didn't, you're still, so my wife doesn't want me to quit the job and I'm spending 40 to 50 hours a week with this other woman who says she doesn't want me to leave my family, but also says that she's in love with me.

I don't have romantic feelings for her, but she's super attractive. And we also connect, you know, we're all, we're all doing some connections here and connecting the dots. We also connect on an intellectual level. I do, wait a minute. So she's super attractive and you completely connect with her intellectually but you don't have romantic feelings with her after you've already cheated on your wife with her all right i do have something of an attachment to her yeah i think you do which i think is a

result of her being only my second ever partner oh okay i see what you're saying here despite me telling her um not to she gives me gifts and always tries to talk to me one on one. All right. So she really likes you and she can say, she doesn't want you to trash your family. She, she is some, she does trash is the wrong word, but she obviously likes you and is pursuing you still. And clearly, you know, we already know what the history is there. This is brutal. This is kind of tough. We only work with about a dozen other people and they've been talking about us, which has affected my work and my bottom line.

It's worth noting we're both independent contractors, so we have no boss. And unless one of us quits on our own, we'll be working at the same location. I love my wife. Desperately want to work things out with her, but sometimes it feels hopeless. All right. Look, you screwed up, so it's going to feel hopeless. She's going to tell you to do stuff. And you know what?

You're going to have to listen to her. Because right now, if the goal is saving your family and trying to get it back to what it was, which unfortunately, man, it's never going to be. I mean, once you are with someone and I'm not even talking about marriage, but like once you're really, really committed with somebody and there's, there's a, a fuck up, it's never going to be the same. They're always going to be wondering what's going on with your phone.

It's, it's going to be where are you at? You know, there's going to be like a late night FaceTime where you're going to say, oh, I'm in a hotel room or in this city. And then there's going to be a FaceTime at like 11 o'clock, just kind of, oh, hey, checking in, miss you. It's like, no, it isn't. You're making sure to see that I answer that FaceTime. So that's what your life is going to be like for a while here. And I love the part that you are like, okay, it's very clear that you know what you want. A lot of these emails will come in and be like, oh, I don't know. I'm not sure. And it's like, well, that means you're actually way more into this new girl because it's new

than you are to your wife, which is science. And unfortunately, like that shit happens too, but it's kind of who we are and denying that doesn't mean you should act out on it all the time. But denying that is, I think, ridiculous. So your wife wants you to stay in the job that exposes you to this distraction. And going into this, I kind of was like, you're just going to have to do whatever your wife wants you to do here for a little while. All right? You're going to have to do stuff you don't want to do. You're going to have to listen to her. And if she's telling you to keep the job, I'm like, you're just going to have to keep the job, especially the one that's better for you

financially. But I would start doing whatever you can do. Don't let yourself here. Here's what you need to do. If you want your wife and you really want your wife back and you want your family and you want to get back to the closest normal as you possibly can achieve, then you need to stop fucking around with the idea that there's this kind of pseudo-intellectual attraction with this other person. You have to be absolutely resolute in saying to the other woman, hey, we know we have our thing. You know how I feel, but I can't take gifts. We can't work together. We can't have coworkers talking about us. My number one and my only, there's no number two. My only priority is trying to make my family right again and get my wife to trust me. And it's

a little bit like the guy that thinks he doesn't want to cheat or says he never will, but you start putting yourself into situations all the time where it's far more accessible. It's like, wait, why is that guy always firing on the car girl? Why is that guy, you know, staying around later at stuff? Why, why is this guy going to younger bars by himself? Why, you know, like I've just, I've seen it enough, especially it's because of the bartending stuff, but I'll also see it with guys. Like there were some guys I really respected that I worked with where, you know, I was younger and we'd be on the road for something. And then I'd be like, Hey, we're hitting up this place a little bit later after dinner. And I'd say, you know, come on. And then a couple of married guys that I know I'm not going to name, they go,

no, not going. And I go, what the, what, you know, and again, I'm young, I'm immature. I'm not married. And I'm thinking like, why wouldn't you just go and get a couple of beers with us after dinner? Like, what's, what's the big deal? Like, let's see what this town's like. Nope, not going, you know, whether it was an athlete or somebody that was famous and then knew would attract attention. And the difference is that the other guys that say, oh, I'm not going to do any of that stuff. They actually put themselves in a constant situations where they are attracting this attention because it floats the ego. It builds you up, makes you feel better about yourself a little bit. Like I get that part of it. Totally get that part of it. I think men, um, definitely more than women have this, even if

you're married and family and you're not going to cheat, you want this affirmation, especially if you had like a good run as a single guy in your younger years, you want to know that there's still that, that gear is still there. so you'll kind of go out just hope that you see it a little bit even if you're not going to act on it but the more you keep putting yourself into those situations the more likely you are to act and that's clearly what happened to co-worker and with this co-worker there can't be any in between there can't be any one percent like i don't know is it impossible to not have this much interaction with her it sounds like it's not impossible it sounds like you could fix that part of it on your own. And until you make sure the work situation isn't tempting at all,

you're just not going to be focused enough mentally because you're still in this email. You're allowing yourself, even though you say you don't have romantic feelings for her, but you're attracted to her. So you're thinking about it and you like talking to her. So there is some kind of connection here that maybe you're not being totally honest about. But even having that as this option, which you may not even realize is this option, even though clearly you did 10 months ago. I don't know that this is ever going to get back to where you need it to get back to. And yeah, your wife's going to be really pissed at you for a long time. Some wives are different than others.

But I don't know. I think it would be weird if a wife was like, yeah, you kind of screwed up. I'm good. Two months later, no problem. And you're like, wait. And then it's like, oh, no, am I going to get payback down the road? And that's why she's not as upset with me as it seems like she would be. So don't envy the position.

You put yourself in it. You want to already understand that. You sound like a pretty smart person. But even if you think you're just telling this other person, hey, I'm done, she has to know that. And you have to know that, too, because it doesn't really sound like you really are because of some of these other things you alluded to. Hit us up, liveadvicerr at gmail.com.

Enjoy the draft, everybody. I know I will. Again, Ringer pre-show live on the Ringer feed with Kevin O'Connor and myself and then me, Bill, and Kevin. We're going to do kind of a middle-of-the-round wrap-up stuff as well, and that will be released on a bonus Thursday ResiloPod here.

So subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, rate and review, rate and review, rate and review. And make sure you check us out on the Spotify app as well and follow us there for podcasts. Thank you.