The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Trent Dilfer on Aaron Rodgers’s Future and Draft QB Fits, Plus Financial Life Advice With CNBC’s Josh Brown 

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

Russillo is joined by Super Bowl champion Trent Dilfer who shares some background on Aaron Rodgers’s beef with the Packers and when he thinks the breakup will actually happen. Plus, Dilfer breaks down why most of the quarterbacks in the draft went to the perfect franchise, with one major exception (2:15). Then Ryen closes it out with CNBC’s Josh Brown for a special financial edition of Life Advice (48:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Trent Dilfer, Josh Brown Producer: Kyle Crichton Producer: Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you think he stays then? I think he stays. I do think the cyber warfare escalated this. It was probably a four on a scale of one to ten that got escalated to a nine

because of what you said with the timing and because of some of the cyber warfare leaks. So I do think going all the way back to the beginning of this pod, if he hurt 52 guys' feelings, I think he can mend it in five minutes. I think it's an OTA meeting where the coaches are out of the room and he's with the guys and he's like, hey, we're all businessmen. This is what's going on.

Don't take it personally. Here's the conversations that went on here. Here's how it was escalated. I'm in. Let's go do this thing. Everybody, let's go. I love you. And, you know, slap butts and go out to practice.

I do think it could be fixed that easily. I don't see him being there after this. That is the great Trent Dilfer, who was on fire today, talking about his prediction for what happened to Aaron Rodgers and the Packers. And we go in on all the draft picks and how they fit. And we're doing financial life advice from CNBC. Josh Brown is going to help you get your stuff together, hopefully help better than I will.

That's coming up. This is a great time to catch up with a good friend, Trent Dilfer, because the draft is behind us a little bit, but I'm, this is why I'm bugging him. And I haven't bugged him off the air about this, which I'm a little surprised. What's going on with your boy,

Aaron Rogers? You know, I've had a hard one on this. I get, okay. So I get his frustration. So I don't want to take a side here because I literally can put myself in his shoes, not his shoes that I was as good or ever had these dynamics.

But as a professional athlete, a guy that has a ton of pelts on the wall, a guy that is this close. I mean, they're this close to making a Super Bowl run. And in his mind, he's like, just give me some more stuff, right? Give me some more ammunition. give me some more ammunition let me go into battle with more with more guns and they do nothing i mean they just disappear in the offseason don't they i mean they just go silent in free agency last year draft they move up to get the future quarterback this year they're not real active and and i'm sure he's having all

these behind the scenes conversations and he probably feels like he's getting somewhere and somebody's saying okay aaron we get you yes we're gonna make we're gonna change how we do things and then they don't and at some point you're just like forget you i'm done like i love my teammates and i love the franchise but i'm done i gotta get the heck out of here. So I get that part. What I don't understand and where I'm not on Aaron's side is what message that sends to all the guys on his team. And I think that's what doesn't get talked about enough with the Aaron Rodgers thing is, so you're basically saying that your receivers are chopped liver, that your running backs, not one

of the best. That your offensive line, which is graded out according to PFF pretty darn well the last few years. I've never been as high on them as they grade out, but it's hard to argue with the grade. They grade out every year. That's one of the best offensive lines. And they've paid for it too, by the way.

They do a lot of good stuff. His messaging to his 53 dudes that have his back, they're his boys, right? Is the messaging there is you guys aren't good enough, but I am.

So take all the other stuff away, how its message is, I'm a Super Bowl quarterback. I won a Super Bowl. I can win a bunch of Super Bowls, but you guys, the rest of you aren't good enough. So I'm pissed that our organization isn't doing more. So I have guys that are Super Bowl quality to come in and take your jobs and help me get to the Super Bowl. That's how it's taken. Now I'm not saying that's his intent, but think about that. When you're constantly upset about what your organization isn't doing to help you win another Super Bowl,

and then you get all the talking heads who want to talk about quarterback. They don't want to talk about the left guard. They don't want to talk about the outside backer. They don't want to talk about the corner. They don't want to talk about the receiver. They don't want to talk about the quarterback. So they're immediately going to jump on Aaron Steinbeck. Oh yeah, he should win four Super Bowls

and he should have way better players. But the messaging to the core of how you win in football is becoming a tribe within your group and serving one another and getting the most from one another and sacrificing one another. You guys aren't good enough and you're't good enough.

And you're not good enough, so I want to go to Oakland, or I want to go to Denver, or sorry, Vegas, or I want to go to Denver, or I want to go San Francisco. I want to go somewhere else where their 52 guys are better than your 52 guys. And that's what bothers me. I'm on his side that Green Bay should be more active and aggressive in improving their roster. And they should not have done the quarterback last year. I'm a hundred percent on Aaron's side last year with Jordan Love. But golly, man, when you throw these temper tantrums publicly and you do these things, you're insulting 52 guys in the locker room.

And I would hope those 52 guys listen to this because that's how they should feel. They should feel less than because of what Aaron's doing through his agent or publicly. Great answer, first of all. And you speak to it as a guy that I know cared. I remember you were catching some shit about some player you criticized and they're like, oh, Trent, that's weird. And then every former player at ESPN was like, no, you guys don't know Trent. This isn't about anything other than

old school locker room. This is how you handle your business. So everybody that played had your back. And I thought it was a cool moment because there was all of a sudden like a momentum correction around a Dilfer take that you had that people were like, wait a minute, where's his head at with this whole deal? So because is it safe to say like Aaron's your guy? I don't know how close you guys still are. Are you not close at all? I mean, he's your guy, right?

I've known him since he was, what, 19 years old. I mean, I'd go up and work out with him when i was still playing when he was at cal uh you know when he was young in green bay helped him through some stuff i would consider him a friend i i wouldn't consider myself in his tight tight network uh uh but if he were to call me and counsel me i would have said these things now i'll say one more thing so pro aaron and then i gave my take on how it's taking the locker room. I'll say this might be the biggest dynamics going on. Some of this might not be Aaron's fault. There's cyber warfare going on, correct? Like, you got to understand now, for the last two months, all of you have been involved in

cyber warfare. You're getting sources, your sources, your best buddies are using you, and probably less you because you have a better pulse on your sources. But I told Pat McAfee this and Mike Silver this and, you know, Sam Farmer this and all the guys I talked to and Albert Breer, his pod, like, you guys are kind of being used to for a cyber warfare play that's going on. And all the general managers and all the coaches leading into the draft they care about one thing and one thing only themselves as they should so they're using this media platform they're using sources and their conduits to get their information out um to smear other teams to create false narratives to get bad things said about players that they really like good

things said about players they don't like uh yada yadaada, yada. I do think some of this is that. I don't think Aaron called his agent and said, screw them. They suck. I'm out. I think it was a slow burn and then others jumping on this bandwagon to kind of create this cyber warfare narrative that's going on to make Aaron look bad to possibly if you're Denver and you're sitting there, you're like, Hmm, this could work. We might get him so upset that he doesn't go back to green Bay. And you know, we have a lot of capital that we can invest in and get Aaron Rogers come on over here. I'm sure John Elway and the rest of that organization would be really happy to do that. So again, you have to take it all in stride.

And I think the listener typically hears one hot take, one thing, one clickbait deal, and they run with it without understanding the 30,000 foot cyber warfare context has been going on really since Tampa hoisted the trophy because it started the next day. I mean, I was on call on the day, and I said, listen, awesome. We can kind of recap the Super Bowl and the season in two minutes

because I know what you're getting on to. You're getting on to quarterbacks, and you're getting on to the draft and free agency and Deshaun Watson and Russell Wilson and Zach Wilson and Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields and Trey Lance. I mean, you have content all the way through draft. And guess what's going to happen after the draft? Another issue is going to come up around a quarterback. And that's what we'll talk about from the draft until preseason starts.

So I do think people have capitalized on that quarterback momentum and the clickbait that goes with it. Yeah, you're totally right about that part of it. And I think I've been more criticized criticized or i should say it this way i should i've been more critical of the rogers element of this because it was so obvious what they were doing and it's like oh so it's draft day and you're going to spread all the love around with some bits of information where just every day it's like whoever's a pretty plugged in national voice covering the nfl it's like okay so rogers team gave this guy this,

but he gave this guy, he gave Schefter something a little different than what he gave. And so it's like, and then on draft day, so now you're just going to blitz the media cycle to try to think you're going to win, where if you're really paying attention, you're like, I don't know, man, you guys have to do it. And my whole point was if you want it out so bad, then do this at the start of free agency.

Like now you've gone through the cycle of the transactions and everything you were doing, and maybe Green Bay already has their guy to replace him in Jordan Love because they spent the pick on him last year, agency. Like now you've gone through the cycle of the transactions and everything you were doing. Um, and maybe green Bay already has their guy to replace him in Jordan love because they spent the pick on him last year, but that stuff kind of turns me off. But you also hit on something that I think is really important as we've seen the demand part of the position evolve, where we've seen it in the NBA. And I've made this connection plenty of times. Others have as well is that the quarterback's becoming the NBA star. And I think this is just the beginning of it. And so as you, as an old school guy go, Hey, I just, I can't, I can't be that publicly down. I can't basically be saying to the other 52, you're not good enough for me,

which is exactly what you're doing when you say you want out. And the other part of this is it's not like they're going eight and eight. Um, although I would say defensively, what happens to that team in the playoffs and the Rogers losses losses? I think it's, again, 37 points allowed in his playoff losses. I can imagine that not being great. But there's this old school football part of it where there's a disconnect generationally of, well, in football, the NBA, those guys are those guys. And I get those criticisms. But in the NFL, it's a locker room. It's a team.

It's 11 guys. And you can't ever do that. And I'm like, no, it's just going to start happening. It's just going to start happening where we accept. I don't think that mentality will Trump a generational thing where, you know, younger people are asking, why don't I have more things? Older people are like, why do you keep asking for the more things? And I'm not sure who's right. It's a great way of saying it again. And you know about me i'm idealistic right i'm an i i'm an idealist i i think there's a certain way that you win i build my program that way i'll coach

this way forever uh i do think you're right that it's going to become more the star driven uh less holistic um whatever football stuff we have in our brain of the way a football player is supposed to operate i think we're gonna have to start moving on from that totally agree except that here's what i'll here's where i'll put my flag in the ground every year the team that wins the super bowl when they get on the podium they won't talk about talent they won't say we're more talented we have more stars they'll talk talk about chemistry, togetherness, work ethic, the bond that they had. They will talk about the things that most of the league is going to dismiss, but the team that wins it all will somehow find a way in the midst of this social media,

Gen Z, millennial, whatever it is, thought process around sport, they somehow found a way to still do the holistic team building togetherness, servants, heart, I'm in it for you approach to the game. win. It won't be. It will not be the team that had the most star power. It will not be that way. And even when the Warriors did the first big three and all that stuff happened, they talked about that year, the first year, because I was in the Bay Area and I played golf with Steph. And he would talk about their bond. They would talk about their togetherness. Yes, they were more talented. Yes, in year two, three they had some issues. But that year they found that secret sauce of bringing a bunch of stars together and buying into something bigger than themselves.

And that will be the team that wins the championship. Give me a Steph story. Sorry, I perked up. Here's my Steph story. And again, not buddy-buddy. We just played some golf together we belong to the same club um must be nice parents you know what i mean like yeah he was a young dad

i'm an old dad type thing so uh he when he hits a golf ball so you know again i was a plus three handicap at one point pretty good golfer to shoot in the 60s. When I would hit a golf ball next to a pro guy, it would be like a junior hire shooting a free throw next to an NBA guy. There's no comparison. The way my ball, I can hit the high draw, I can hit the high cut, I can hit the shot, but it sounds different than the guy when I'm at Whisper Rock and you have the mini tour guy next to me and he's ripping shots and just sounds different, right? That's Steph. Steph, you can put next to a tour player hitting a golf ball and it looks and sounds the same. If he played 200 rounds of golf like I did in 2018,

he could go play in a mini tour event. Like he's that kind of good. He's that kind of pure when he hits a golf ball. And the other thing about him, he's got the same cool demeanor to him on the golf course that he does on the court. Like he'll make this highly aggressive shot. Everybody thinks it's crazy. You know, a 262 yard high draw around a tree into a par five that I'm like, I'm never trying that shot. Like I'm not, I'm, that's dumb stuff that you would try that shot.

And then he pulls it off and you're like, what? What just happened? But then he'll try it two days later and shank it. But he doesn't care. He's like, well, I pulled it off two days ago, so the miss, no. Water off a duck's back. So I I'll share this with the podcast

and it's not that big of a deal, but Max Homa who's on the tour, who we've had on the pod. Right. And everybody, as soon as they, when we had them on the pod, immediately, all of these people were like a root for Max Homa from now on.

Like this guy's such an awesome guy. Lost his card, you know, had to fight back all the, all the shit that he went through. He invited me to his home course, um, to come play with him.

Oh no. And I'm like, Max, I don't like, I don't really play anymore. I squat. I don't play golf. I squat. I bench.

And my friends are like, you have to go. He's not expecting you to be good. And I go, I just don't know that I... Because when I would play regularly, I was okay. I wasn't great. I wasn't bragging about it or obsessed with it. But when you get out there and you can play enough, when you get to the point of where you know where, hey, I know what I did wrong.

It's this amazing feeling. Like when you're just starting out and then you start to play and you know, you're okay. And then when you hit a bad shot, you're like, oh, I know exactly what I did wrong on that. And you're like, all right, so I'm getting somewhere. But then I just never play because I do all the, you know, I just have other stuff that I'd rather do. And my friends are like, you have to do it. You have to do it. I kind of don't want to, but I'm getting somewhere, but then I just never play. Cause I do all the, you know, I just have other stuff that I'd rather do. And my friends are like, you have to do it.

You have to do it. And I kind of don't want to, but I'm, I'm not sure. I also don't want to pass up the opportunity for a guy on the tour to be like, why don't you just come hang out and play around with me? But,

uh, I would have liked to have gotten a few rounds in before I do something like that. Well, just for his sake, you know, do what I did. I was playing a ton of golf when I was retired.

I take this job. Right before I take this job, I'm playing in a tournament at Whisper Rock. Shout out to the Whisper Rock guys. It's the best club. It's the best hang. It's the best hang in the world. I think 90 guys that play on tour out there, many tours. We play this huge tournament

and I just don't play very well. My team should compete. We're one of the better two-man teams. I don't play very well. Right. My team should compete. You know, we're one of the better two man teams and I don't play very well. I'm kind of the tank because I'm leaving. And then this thing comes up. So I just quit. So my, my, my theory on things is I'm not great at them. I just stopped doing them. Like you just realize how small you are in the golf world. And this is what I tell my, you know, mid-am buddies.

You know, I'm 49 years old. I got all these mid-am buddies. So I go at 50, we're going to go play on the senior tour. 55, whatever. So we're going to play in these high-end, high-end mid-amateur tournaments. I'm like, okay, go hit balls at Whisper Off. Have a member at Whisper Off invite you out there

and just go hit balls on the range in the off season while the tour players are back. And you'll quickly realize you have no future as a golfer. Yeah, that's right. That's why the Steph thing's amazing. That's why the Steph thing, because it's actually legitimate. Whereas I grew up reading about how

Michael Jordan could just quit the NBA and join the PGA, and you're like, dude, what are you talking about? Because everybody that golfed with him was like, he's alright. Yeah. Like, we're all right. He shot 62 in a tournament one time on a Sunday to win it. And everybody, oh, he shot 62.

Made nine birdies, no bogeys, and oh, you must be so good. And I'm like, no, I got lucky. I made five 30-foot putts, hit it. Wait, did you just drop a 62 in your final round or win some pro-am? Yeah. Is that what you did? That's actually, it was actually a tournament back in 2001 or something. Uh,

but my point is that then the next week I'm back home and I'm playing with Nick Watney, who's in college at the time. And he's hitting a 65 yards by me and he's 65, not 30, 65. And you're a big dude. Yes, he's carrying trees that I'm trying to hook it around. And, you know, he's hitting spinning 35-yard wedge shots, and I'm chunking and running it.

Yeah. Yeah, we'll both make a par, but it's a very different par. And I think I can bring this back to football. It's also the conversation when you start looking at quarterbacks. I'll segue into quarterback talk for the draft for you. You just, it sounds different coming off some guy's hands. It looks different how they use the pocket. Their joint structure is different, so they know,

you know they're going to be sustainable. There's a lot of really good college quarterbacks, but if you use the golf analogy like it's going to sound different when they're on the range it's the ball it's going to look different uh it just isn't the same and the guys that play at the highest level for a long time they just have a certain horsepower uh that others don't have and and i think this draft was unique because you had quite a few of them with the unique horsepower. All right. So let's go through the list.

Then give me your favorite fits, least favorite fits for all the guys that went. Well, the one nobody talked about was Trevor Lawrence, obviously, because we knew it was going to happen for so long. So nobody's going to get me, you know, it's not going to create a whole lot of buzz.

If you're leading your show with Trevor Lawrence to the Jaguars, what do you think every day? Everybody knows it's going to create a whole lot of buzz if you're leading your show with Trevor Lawrence and the Jaguars. What do you think every day? Everybody knows it's going to happen. But I think it's a great fit. I think he's one of the few first picks of the draft that is set up to have success pretty early. And I don't know if it's this year. I think success this year would be six wins, seven wins. It looks competitive.

They stay close in some games. There's really good teams. I think he this year would be six wins, seven wins. It looks competitive. They stay close in some games. There's really good teams. I think he can do that. I think they're set up. I'm a huge Urban Meyer believer. I love the staff. I love his approach when he got in that he didn't just hire the good old boys from his college days that he knew,

that he really looked at NFL pedigree guys, but that also have his core values. I think the Schottenheimer bevel fit on offense is really good. Warhop on the offensive line, I think, is a really good hire. Defensive, I think they made some good hires. You know what I feel about Trent Baalke. I think he's one of the best talent evaluators in all of football. Has been for years.

How it ended in San Francisco, unfortunately. And he deserves a lot of this and as his friend i've told him this like some of the criticism he obviously earned but if you just look at the roster that he built in san francisco with jim harbaugh from the beginning and the success they had like go do their first four-year record compared to the four-year record of the next regime like they were very. He knows how to build a roster. He'll do it well with Urban. So Trevor walks into a situation where he can have success

a little earlier than most first picks of the draft. So I love the fit. I think they loved Justin Fields. And I think a lot of teams did at the top, his talent, his ceiling. But Trevor was a no brainer

to be that pick. So I love that fit. I don't like the Zach Wilson fit. I don't like the pick. I think he was overdrafted. I think he was overhyped. I do think he's uberly talented. I mean, he's got some juice now, and he can really throw a football.

But a BYU kid going to the Big Apple, the cutthroat approach, the expectations that he's going to have uh that's going to be very very hard to survive no matter how talented he is i don't necessarily know if they upgrade it you know i'm a big donald guy so i don't know how much they upgraded over sam and then sam had had handled all that very well i get it from the organizational standpoint of why pay Sam a bunch of money when you can get an equally talented player. They probably think more talented, but an equally talented player for a first contract value. So I can understand that part, but I personally don't see that fitting. The biggest part of that has nothing to do with Zach.

They got Mike LaFleur, who's their office coordinator, who's brilliant, a great young mind. Nothing bad to say about him, but it's going to be his first time in his life calling plays. And I think if you interview, let's say, 10 high school coaches, because it matters a little bit, I'd be one of them, 20 office coordinators in college, and 10 in the the nfl and said tell me about your first year calling plays i think all 40 of us would roll our eyes up in our head go holy crap i thought it was one thing and it's a totally different beast what is it then what is it what is it based on you thinking you know exactly what you're doing and then having to do it here's what i told my

quarterback after the first year i said you got a lot then having to do it? Here's what I told my quarterback after the first year. I said, you got a lot of learning to do and I got a lot of learning to do. Because here's what I learned. It was like when I went from college to the pros and how everything sped up. I had a plan. I'm super organized. I mean, I am. I'm uber prepared for the game.

But there's going to be four to six times a game that something happens so fast that you can't rehearse for it. And you don't have the instincts to make the right decision on the play call. And then everybody's waiting on the play caller. So the whole thing starts by the tempo and the rhythm and the decisiveness of the play caller. So when you're not decisive and your tempo isn't the same, they sense it and the rest of the communication breaks down, but they also sense the weakness. They sense the indecisiveness, so now they don't have the confidence. So if I don't call stashy right, jump, act left, lock it, why hero and if i don't bust that out with confidence like oh we got the perfect play you know dialed up then it gets relayed down the road and with less decisiveness less decisiveness

but the time it gets to the player they're like they don't believe in this call the call doesn't work so that's one example and i think all 40 of those guys, if you interviewed back, Ooh, yeah, I did some good things. Like I'm a good play caller, but there were four a game that I wish I had back. Well, then I felt those four a game can be catastrophic. We'll get away with them in high school. You'll be away with college. If, you know, if Kyler Murray's your quarterback, you're going to get away with it. Uh, in the NFL, unless Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers, your quarterback,

you ain't getting away with it. So now you take a rookie quarterback with a rookie play caller. Oh, and guess who he's getting to go against in his division? Belichick twice. Flores twice. He's one of the great defensive minds in football. Oh, and this guy, Sean McDermott, he's pretty good too. He's proved he's a pretty good defensive play caller so you have graduate level phd masterminds of defense calling plays

against a first-time play caller and a rookie quarterback good luck let's see how that plays out as there's a great point as you were going through the play calling thing i kept thinking of two guys um and their personalities because there's never been a time lane kiffin didn't think something was going to work so when you're talking about the cadence and getting to know some of the Bama guys, and they were like, look, even though he dealt with all the shit with Nick, because Nick is wired a different way than Lane Kiffin is wired, there was never a time that Lane was like, Lane's calling it in and here we're doing it. And then it made me think of Shanahan at San Francisco.

Shanahan could coach with no assistance on offense if he wanted to and I'm not trying to say like he's better than everybody else but his demeanor and his approach where some people were like he seems a little off at times and you're like no he's actually so locked in on that part of it um as an offensive line again right right I'm not talking play call but like I just think of him as a play caller when he's back in Atlanta and that kind of stuff. Like now it makes sense to me as you're, as you're talking about. One of the big things in the play calling world is swag without arrogance. You know what I mean? If you, as soon as you get arrogant, you get bust in the face. Like you just start thinking,

you know more than everybody that's when you get bust in the face, but you got to have that swaggy confidence. You got to have that kind of assassin's approach. Your team needs to feel it. You know, you got 11 guys on the phones with you too. So it's not like your message is going to your tight ends coach, your running back coach, your O-line coach, you know, the chief of staff up in the box, the wide receiver coach up in the box looking at the defense. Your assistant offensive line coach is looking at fronts and front seven profiles. And they're communicating with guys on the sidelines and you know you better have that

that swag to you like hey we're getting after this they can't stop us hey we'll jump into that and we'll go to that and then we'll get in this personnel group and then we'll run this concept and oh we're running inside well let's just keep hammering them and there's messaging that goes on with how you're calling a game that gives everybody else juice or we lose a state championship because i make a bad call to open a drive and i was hesitant and i go back and i haven't slept for a month because it keeps coming back up i kind of went up let's do no let's get two by two let's oh no Let's go to three by one and run this. And I go back. Now I look at that and I'm like, okay, so my office coordinator who was then signaling the play,

he was indecisive. My quarterback was indecisive getting the call. Everybody else on the phones, they don't have the confidence in me because they hear me hesitating. Huh, we throw a pick. I wonder why. Like that stuff matters.

That was really, really well explained so i appreciate that um give me a couple more guys as we finish up here then so what did you think of trey fit with san francisco and then let's go through the rest of them love train san francisco i could see the dilemma that they had and i don't think it was just mac and trey i think it was mac just and trey i mean i think that was a big dilemma the Niners had there, right? So you think the Niners were still in on Fields? Oh, yeah. And by the way, did you hint at that maybe even Urban still liked Fields?

Like Fields was part of that conversation? Oh, yeah. I know for a fact that teams at the top had Fields very highly rated. Rare, very highly rated. Like, you know, you put him on the board. Let's call him a one through ten. Yeah, okay. Keep it simple.

If Lawrence was a nine three, Fields was an was an 8-9, 9-9-1. Like, he wasn't an 8-4. He was very highly ranked. Lance was, too, on many of their boards. The big thing with Lance was just the lack of reps, which I think is a real conversation. Like, everybody says, well, it's just lack of reps. That's not a drive-by comment. That's a huge conversation.

They're going to have to make up that gap in the preseason. And they can with Jimmy G. Jimmy G shouldn't play one preseason snap. Trey Lance should play four quarters of all the preseason games to catch up on the reps. And then Jimmy G can start the first game and play as many as he plays well. The thing with Trey that didn't get talked enough about, I've heard a little bit since, is it's not just his physical giftedness. It's his mind. We've had him in this office, on the board. I know Trey

really well. I had him in Elite 11 as a counselor this summer. You put him on the board. I think I posted something actually with him on the board in my office, he can, I mean, his brain processes, it blows you away. And I gave him hard stuff. Like I made him go sit down, I'm going to coach up a play, install a play to you, give you a bunch of nomenclature, and then you're going to get up and I'm going to grind you. And I'm going to ask you how you draw the play matters. That left guard is a little small.

What is he, 205 pounds or is that a 300-pound left guard? To the split by the X, to the spacing of the wide and the backfield set. And how do you draw your defensive front? Over, under, three-man, four-man, weak side overload, A-gap pressure. Like, I'm grinding him. And he's just up there like, got it, boom, boom, boom, boom. I mean, his brain is processing at a really high level. He can take in a lot, immediately digest it, kind of own it, and then spit it back out.

So I think he killed people. He killed the Zoom kind of virtual meeting room stuff. So that's going to serve him well. And then Fields at 11. Come on, man. 11 come on man i mean the bears the golden goose showed by showed up in chicago and dropped off a guy that most years would go one or two at 11 i i just can't believe it happened though no kidding all right well then give me mac to new england it's a great fit i mean they're going to go back they're going to be able to play the way they used to play. Like they had this one year where they had to play weird with Cam.

And I, and I gave Josh a ton of credit that he did everything he could to try to, you know, put an offense together. That was totally different than the one they just ran for however many years Tom was in new England. Now they're going to be able to go back and do what they do. You know,

this is a kid that can handle a ton of information. He can play the game on time. He's got pro level anticipation, throwing guys open, all those different things. He'll play the game like a three to five year pro and the athletic ceiling no longer matters because that's not what they value. You know, they're going to value the surgical parts of quarterbacking, which Mack did better than any of the guys we've mentioned in college. Mack played the position of quarterback better than Lawrence, better than Fields, better than Lance, better than Wilson, better than Maughan, better than Mills.

He played the position better. And he'll be able to just go to the NFL and play the position. Where the other guys had a leg up on him was that they had the potential to be superstars athletically. They're one percenters throwing a football. They're one percenters athletically where Mack is just a guy. But Mack can play the position better than all of them as we sit here right now.

So I think he goes and depends on what the offseason looks like, depends how much time they get him in the summer. But it wouldn't surprise me if Mack's starting day one because they're going to recycle playbook to 2019 and be like, okay, can you handle these protections? Can you handle these route adjustments? Can you handle these blitz pickups? Can you handle the run game? He's been like, yeah, can you handle these protections? Can you handle these route adjustments? Can you handle these blitz pickups? Can you handle the run game?

He's been like, yeah, I got this. Yeah, I think the only way it doesn't happen is if it's because of how many guys still love Cam. And they said he was a stud. As bad as it was on the field, and it was. And it was for a bunch of different reasons, to be fair to Cam. But he didn't play well on top of it.

But the way he handled himself, which was certainly, I think, a fair criticism earlier in his career, the way he handled himself up there, there's a lot of Cam fans. And I think Cam has a little Iverson to him where his peers worship him while they're in the league with him. And I'm one of his fans, too. So it wouldn't – and also, you could play it – now, they do have all

the opt-ins back so it's not like the patriots aren't trying to win a super bowl but i i do think you can have two things going on at the same time you can have the mac jones uh tom brady offense while you're playing cam newton in the cam newton hybrid cam Cam Newton offense as Mack slowly progresses. So instead of Brady taking over for Bledsoe with basically the same offense, the transition can be Jones taking over for Newton, and then you just plug and play a new offense. How about that? You're reporting Spurrier-style quarterback pulls, 90s Florida, New England.

Yeah, I'm not saying reporting. And, you know, every quarterback that I've ever talked to that played in that was like it was the worst time I've ever had playing in the position. Because you're just constantly looking over, expecting to get pulled. Yeah, Jesse Palmer. Am I coming out or am I staying in?

Palmer talking about that. Not that I think any of us spend a ton of time feeling bad for jesse palmer but if you get done talking to jesse about anything i'm you know lucky enough to have the opportunity to be like what was that like and he'd be like dude you're sitting there you know he just starts thinking through it see i feel very bad for just that's a huge burden to be that good looking and that articulate and that famous and be a nice guy and be a good guy like right yeah i mean my favorite training camp ever was the year it was sean hill jesse palmer alex smith and me in san francisco and nor was our coordinator and nor gave us kind of the beginning

of the meeting 10 minutes okay slap dicks talk about whatever you want. Like he would give us the floor for 10 minutes before he actually got into football. And you have four alpha personalities that think they're really funny and Jesse being the funniest. And he would just take over the room and we would play, what would you rather? And Jesse every day would come up with a, what would you rather? And it was awful. Either up with a what would you rather and it was awful either choice was horrific and we would laugh we'd be crying every day for 10 minutes uh before our night meeting with norv turner and he would laugh at first he didn't use his doing to appease me because i was the grumpy old fat and all that stuff but by three four nights and he's like this is the best 10 minutes of the day.

And Jesse would just run the show. It was awesome. That is a good group, though, because, you know, I know how close you are with Alex, too. There wasn't a human being who's paid attention to a minute of sports rooting against Alex Smith after learning about his story. I mean, he...

I know I've been tough on some of the third down stuff with him, but I almost felt guilty being critical of him because I'm like God and I knew I knew how much you liked him and you know your endorsements enough for me on almost anybody as a guy alright so let me leave you here because I know we all have stuff to do today

what do you think happens with Rodgers what would be the best fit for him if he does move on I think Denver why not denver yeah do you think he stays then or you think he's i think he stays i think i do think the cyber warfare excellent escalated this it was probably a four on a scale of one to ten that got escalated to uh eight, nine, because of what you said with the timing. Yeah. Because of some of the cyber warfare leaks.

So I do think going all the way back to the beginning of this pod, if he hurt 52 guys' feelings, I think he can mend it in five minutes. Right. I think it's an OTA meeting where the coaches are out of the room and he's with the guys and he's like hey we're all businessmen this is what's going on don't take it personally the here's the conversations that went on here here's how it was escalated i'm in let's go do this thing everybody all right let's go i love you and you know slap butts and go out to practice i do think it could be fixed that easily. I don't see him being there after this year.

I think this year he stays, then after that. They have to because they put themselves in this position with Jordan Love. Right? Like, year three, they're going to have to play this guy. Or they're going to just have to cut bait and waste, what, the 22nd pick of the draft or something? Yeah, I would trade him. I mean, if we get another year like this from Rodgers, I think you can learn anything in New England.

Bro, at least take him. Listen, this is what people don't understand. And I've said this for like four or five years now, and I've been right. There's five more coming next year. There's six the year after that. There's six the year after that. And they're all cheaper.

Nobody cares about Jordanordan love it's a one-year cycle because next year's guys they're going to value more than jordan love this year guys nobody would have traded for jordan love this year when they could have got their davis mills or their you know kellen mond or whoever they identified after the big five none of those top teams were going to trade for jordan love over the five that went early so it's gonna be the same thing next year you don't know who they are yet the kid from liberty he's gonna blow up malik malik yeah he's gonna be a superstar a superstar he's gonna test off the charts teams are gonna now watch liberty football every week and mel and todd are gonna be talking about him and it's every year that going to happen because we've been seeing it for 11 years. There used to only be a handful of them that you knew, oh, okay,

that kid's going to be special. Now Joey goes around the country and watches 700 and there's 65 on the list. You know, there's 15 that you're like, oh yeah, you can see that kid being really, really good. That might be Sam Darnold. That might be sam darnold that might be davis mills that might be justin fields that might be that guy like my guy here he's really really really good but there's 30 this year that are really good and then they're going to go to college and based on their decisions i mean based on their based on where they go to college and how they're developed you're going to have four to seven every year that you're like, oh, that guy, wow, crap, he hasn't played a snap yet.

And this conversation around 16 starts only or 14 starts only is only going to magnify because the next guy at Oklahoma, the next guy at Bama, the next guy at LSU, the next guy at North Carolina after Sam Howell. He's really good too. And he's going to wait until his sophomore, junior year. He's going to play 14 games. He's going to be a Heisman Trophy candidate.

He's going to throw 4,000 yards. He's going to be 6'3", 215, and run a 4'6". And you're going to be like, huh, okay, there's another one. And they're just every year. So your tradable, your Jimmy G's and your Jordan Love's, everybody's, oh, they have great trade value. No, they don't. Because if your scouting department's doing the work

and you're on these college campuses, your area scout has watched Spencer Rattler at Oklahoma for a year. He's watched Max Johnson practice at LSU. He's watched the freshman at Notre Dame. I forget his name, Buckner, whatever. He's watched these guys. He's like, look, Notre Dame, Ohio State, blah, blah. They all have these freshman dudes that look the part.

And if they're developed right, let's go. There's no more Kevin Cobbs. There's no more of those guys they're all dudes every school has a dude and you know those guys dudes there's a kid at wyoming don't even know his name okay he split time last year he played in a bowl game after his freshman year he's he's josh allen he's 6 4 2, freak athlete, can throw the ball wherever he wants. He's not super accurate right now, but he's a freak. And he's splitting time at Wyoming.

There's a kid at Fresno State. He's a little short, right? He doesn't look the part, but he's everybody's good as he can book. He can rip it. He can play off platform. He can jump up in the pocket. He can run inside zone read. He can run all this stuff.

They're everywhere. These kids can play. Now I feel like I've got to lock back into my Wyoming. I haven't been as locked into the program the last few years. That is at Dilfer Dimes. Always an amazing visit. how's everything else you good everything good i gotta go and hang out with my middle schoolers in 20 minutes i go by them

chick-fil-a a little middle school small group that i do uh we're in spring ball so we're taking spring ball pretty light couple of non-padded practices in the next week we have four um talented you know i started this thing brian with 38 kids when i got here uh june 1 i think we'll have over 115 and this is year three at lipscomb at lipscomb yeah we had to push back today's pod because colleges are calling about our kids. You know, they're highly recruited kids. They're great kids. They're good students. They're really good players.

I got a freshman corner with five SEC offers. I got an eighth grader that played 30 snaps in the state championship game. He'll get offers in the SEC as a freshman. The quarterback, the running back, the receiver with the SEC offer. So we're pretty done now. Talented and good are two different things. So I got to practice what I preach. I got to take a really talented group

and turn it into a really good football team. And that's the challenge that coaches have. You talk to the Brian Kellys and the Nick Sabans and the guys that are recruiting well every single year. That's why every year is unique. You have to build this year's team to be great, not be just accumulating talent. It's the accumulation of good kids and talent,

but also the development of it and the integration of becoming a great team. That's really where the work's done. We'll see. Thank you for the time add till for dimes check them out and we'll uh we're gonna have them on again shortly so thanks anybody see you before we get to life advice and again life advice are at gmail.com um a little cleanup over here from your boy when i was researching researching that Michael Johnson Bailey race, for whatever reason, I just stumbled on it. In the right corner came up the net worth thing. And as many of you have pointed out, and I appreciate it, because we're all just helping

here. We're all just a community, active community, trying to pick each other up. The CEO of Herbalife is also named Michael Johnson, and he's worth $250 million. So I don't know if the Sprinter is worth $250 million. So I don't know if the sprinter is worth 250 million. I don't want to make any assumptions, but that information that I shared with you was inaccurate. And, uh, yeah, I was quickly watching the race. I saw it come up. I was like, wow, that's interesting. And then it came up with, um, with Daniel Jeremiah. I was like, here's a fun fact. And it was wrong. And I told Daniel Jeremiah, I go, Hey, by the way, heads up that that was the wrong Intel. And I say to you, if you were at a social gathering, you're meeting new people, impressing clients, impressing, maybe you were Tinder and you're like, hey, here's an interesting tidbit on your Tinder date.

And you shared that and it didn't work out. Then you just follow up with whoever, clients, significant others, friends, just let them know that's on me. That one's on me. So hopefully that helps repair whatever relationship is damaged. Okay, let's get to the good stuff here. Josh Brown. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

I've been looking forward to this for a while. Josh Brown joins us now. CNBC, you see him on Halftime with Scott Wapner and a bunch of different panelists. You know, look, I like watching the stuff. I don't know that I'm smart enough to understand what the hell the guys are talking about. So let's all try to get a little bit smarter. He's also the CEO of Ritholtz Wealth Management, and he's a Terp as well. So my relationship with Van Pelt, that's not why we're doing this, but we've always enjoyed any perspective of Maryland people. So, okay, let's start with your background. What are you, 42? What's your background? How did you get into this out of school? 44? All right, you look 42.

Thank you. Give me your bright-eyed, taken-over-the-world attitude after college saying this is what I'm doing with my life. Well, I was a loser. In my 20s, I was a loser. I was in a dead-end industry, and I'm not one of these people that's smart enough to know they're in a dead end. And so I decided to beat my head against the wall for a decade.

But in hindsight, I don't regret it because I had a front row seat. I was working at a retail brokerage firm on Long Island, which was like a thing you did if you didn't know what you wanted to do for a living. And you were an aggressive young man from Nassau County. like a thing you did if you didn't know what you wanted to do for a living. And you were an aggressive young man, like from Nassau County, like that's what you did. So all the guys older than me from high school were doing that. Everybody was getting rich, making a lot of money. And that was like, you know, late 90s, early 2000s. That was the vibe. So I was doing that, but it was stupid, but I didn't know any better. And my parents didn't really give me great guidance. They didn't know any better either. And it really took until the financial crisis 10 years later when I realized all this shit I'm doing, slinging stocks, like I'm not really helping anybody.

I'm like, I'm almost to the point of like too sanctimonious. Like people like I want to help people. I really, really care. It's not it's not shtick. So it took like Madoff and Lehman Brothers and that whole wreck for me to have this soul searching moment. And I said, I don't want to sell investments to people anymore. I want to be a real financial advisor. So I dropped my Series 7 and I and I took my Series 65, which is your investment advisor representative

license. And I moved over from selling things to people to just getting paid for advice in an unconflicted way. And that's, by the way, where most of the industry has now gone to. There aren't any real stockbrokers anymore. industry has now gone to. There aren't any real stockbrokers anymore. But that experience, just that soul searching and that self-loathing led to starting a blog. The blog is called TheReformBroker.com. Millions of people started reading it. I don't really know why to this day. But as you know, when you build an audience and you're like, oh, shit, I guess I better keep giving them content.

So I just like I kept going. But that ended up being my salvation because I met Barry Ritholtz. And then a few years later, he and I founded a firm together. And so we're seven and a half years old, 40 people, just over two billion dollars in assets under management consistently every year. One of the fastest growing firms in the industry. And what we had in common then is what we still have in common. He writes a blog, I write a blog.

We say what we think, and it's not always popular. And as you know, not every interaction you have in real life is pleasant when you've been writing things about, you know, the ways that other people in the industry are conflicted or better ways to do things, et cetera. But that's what we've always done. And that's what we'll continue to do. We've built a rabid fan base and we've raised hundreds of millions of dollars a year from investors who agree with our message and our investing philosophy.

All right. Well, what's your philosophy then? The philosophy is less is more. The philosophy is Wall Street makes the majority of its money convincing people that they can have all the upside, none of the downside. It's complete bullshit. Our approach is to build financial plans for people and invest based on their objectives, not invest based on how do we beat the benchmark. And we tell people they need to embrace risk. They need to accept drawdowns. They need to accept volatility. And if they don't, they're not going to be able to achieve their goals. Most of the industry is the other way. Basically saying to people, don't worry. I know

what I'm doing. I'm really great at this. I'm going to hedge all these risks, blah, blah, blah. That's fine too, but you can't have the upside of the markets if you're not willing to accept the drawdowns. It's this radical idea, Ryan, that risk and reward are related. So that's how we do what we do. We lean into transparency, we lean on we lean into transparency authenticity i have no stage manager i have no pr firm no publicist no media training uh i think it's why i've stood out uh on on financial television for example uh what you see is what you get we tell the truth the truth is not always pleasant but the clients the clientele that we've built, these are people that have already been bullshitted by the machine. Like they, they already, they already went that other route for the most part. And now they just want to work with somebody that tells them what

it is. So that's, that's kind of the rep that we've built in the industry. And we found a lot of incredible certified financial planners to come work with us and be the client facing side of the firm, which enables me to do what I do, which is write, speak, podcast, TV, etc. So it's a really cool situation that happened accidentally about 10 years ago. We realized we have this great audience and a lot of them want to be our clients. And we just, we ran with it and the rest is history. Yeah. I only knew about anything financial. Like once I got to college, because I was going to school with kids from Fairfield County and you know, their parents would be in investment banking. I, I, I may feel embarrassed at like 18. I was like banking. What? Like, I didn't know I came from a construction background.

And so there were all these different things. And I thought like, oh, stockbroker. Okay. So then I still was in town. And then I met a guy who ran an Edward Jones, you know, franchise. And I was like, how does that work? And he's like, I just make sure that I, everyone that we graduated with gives me their money. And then I manage it. And hopefully over 30 years, you guys would be good. And I was like, so everybody just trusts you. And it kind of blew my mind because it was fees based. trust you. And it kind of blew my mind because it was fees based. And the Edward Jones model was kind of interesting. It was almost like, hey, we'll have one here and then we can't have another one close to it. I'm only using that as an example because I had a buddy that was in it. And then I did the insurance testing thing where I wasn't even selling insurance. I was selling, you want to talk about bullshit. I passed an exam that made me licensed to be an insurance consultant, exam that made me licensed to be an insurance consultant, even though I'd never worked in insurance. And this business found this model. This is insane. When I try to explain this to people, I had a couple of friends that worked on the sales side. And then they were like, look, we found this loophole that if you can get a business to name you their consultant,

then they will pay you, but they don't pay you. The insurance company, the premium they pay to the insurance company, then it has to give you 4% because you're named the consultant. So if Josh Brown has Josh Brown's deli and you have four employees that you're providing insurance for, which actually would be amazing at a deli, but your premium, if it were $400 a month, wouldn't change. But if you signed a piece of paper that said, Ryan Rosillo is now our consultant, then that meant I got 4% of that every month. So the whole business model was you're trying to get everyone to sign these pieces of paper and we're pretty convincing. What are you doing for that? Like what kind of consulting are you doing?

It was all the pitch. It was all the pitch. Like, Hey, do you have any problems with your insurance company? Yeah. All the time. All right. Well, I'm the go-between. I know what they do. And the thing is the guys ahead of me knew what they did. I didn't know. And then the state of Vermont was like, Hey, why is this guy a consultant? And he's never actually sold insurance. So they were like, you have to go back and sell insurance. And the reason I bring that up is that there is this awakening in your twenties when you'll get into some of this stuff where you think you have it mapped out and you almost never do, but you'll realize like, wait a minute, is this it? Is this what it is? Like, this seems like this, this, this is total bullshit. Like, and I feel that way in some of my own industry stuff.

So you guys, the, the fund world, these firms, I think it's a very small world. You guys all kind of know each other. And I think some of the stuff about you guys is you see yourself, position yourself as outsiders, but I mean, you still have to charge fees, right? I mean, you still have to maintain a workforce and you still have to make a living. So how does that work out? So let's look at actively managed mutual funds. This is an industry that literally cannot do what they say they do. The idea behind buying a mutual fund, which most people listening to this have bought, will continue to buy, that's what your 401k is filled with.

There's not a lot of ETFs in 401ks. It's mostly actively managed mutual funds. Year after year, the stock market beats the majority of those mutual funds. It's very rare that a majority of funds that in existence beat whatever their benchmark is. So if it's a small cap fund, it's a Russell 2000. If it's large cap, it's the S&P 500. They almost can never do it. Not only that, it's actually worse than that.

And by the charging a fee as though they can, um, they don't, they can't explicitly say we can. They say that's what's actually worse than that. And by the way, they're charging a fee as though they can. They can't explicitly say we can. They say that's what they're trying to do. Okay, fine. All the marketing leads you to believe that they can do it. What's worse than that is there's no persistence. And here's why this is important. let's say I tell you that there are a hundred mutual funds that are, uh,

managing money against the benchmark of the S and P 500. And of those hundred 30% beat the market last year. When you say, well, then I want to buy those 30%. Well, do you, because statistically that 30,

those, those funds are just as likely to underperform the following year as they are to outperform the following year. There's no persistence of performance. It doesn't exist. So you have really talented fund managers. This isn't their fault. The problem is that different styles dominate the top of the market every year. And one year it's growth and the next year it's value.

And then the year after that is dividends. It's impossible for any fund to consistently outperform over your lifetime. In fact, there's like one guy who did it 15 years straight and he's a living legend, Bill Miller. And the reason he's a living legend is because nobody else has even come close.

So this is an industry predicated on the idea. It's I say industry. It's trillions of fucking dollars invested in tens of thousands of funds, and none of them can deliver on what they say they can do. They try. It's not their fault. It's an impossible feat. So our practice, we're not

presenting ourselves to people and saying, we're going to beat the market for you. It's ludicrous. It statistically has never been done by anyone, cannot be done. Our value proposition is we're going to keep you from making a seven-figure mistake with your money. We're going to manage the psychology, the behavior. We're going to manage the psychology, the behavior. We're going to do all the right stuff from a tax standpoint. We're going to rebalance into the market when it's uncomfortable to do. We're going to literally make it so that the three things you tell us are most important to you. And for most of our clients, what is it? Retirement, college tuition, leave some money behind for the grandkids, right?

So we're going to quantify those goals. How much money will it actually cost to do these things? And then we're going to work backwards. We're going to say, what is the right portfolio that gives each household, custom to each household, what is the right portfolio that gives them the optimal chance of being able to do that with the least amount of volatility possible, right? And then we're going to course correct because things change, things in the world change. And really the relationship is predicated

on expertise, judgment, and the ability to relate the portfolio to the person's life that we're dealing with. Because every household is different. Every portfolio is different. So that's the value proposition. There are people who say, I don't need that. I want to do it myself. Okay, great. That's not my client. My client is the person that says, yes, I need a sounding board. I need somebody I can call up and ask questions of. I need somebody to select a portfolio for me, make changes when necessary, keep abreast of what's happening in the economy, et cetera, but then also know me and know what I care about.

And in that moment, and we just had one a year ago, in that March of 2020 moment, the moment of maximum uncertainty, who is the person that you call up and say, am I fucked or are we going to be okay? Like, who is that person? Do you trust them? Do you believe in their expertise? So that is what we're building. And we can actually do that. Unlike the mutual fund example I gave, we can deliver on that. We are delivering on that month in, month out, year in,

year out. So I never wanted to set up a business where I couldn't actually do the thing that I was telling the client I can do. And that's what, again, that's most of Wall Street. So I like our niche. We're not the only, there are 18,000 registered investment advisory firms. We're just one of 18,000. We happen to be pretty large and growing fast, but there are talented financial planners all over America doing exactly what I just described. And I think it's really the most impressive part of all of financial services that firms like ours have been able to do this in all kinds of market, uh, environments. Okay. Perfect segue. Cause now we'll get to a bunch of the emails. Um, and I want to thank the listeners, the number that we had here sifting through these.

So, you know, there's, there's plenty of good ones left out. Um, we'll start with one that I'm sure everybody, I like that. Uh, I like that. Everybody's giving you their stats, like how much they bench and bench and it just sort of happened. It just sort of happened. I didn't edit those out for Josh, but I appreciate it because again, it was a Dan Patrick thing first and foremost when it was height and weight and they'd hit the bell. And then I don't know. There's just we had a cool fitness. We had a fitness guy on. So then I think it's just like we'll have like a 50 year old guy being like, I guess I'm supposed to throw this in here'm supposed to throw this in here. I start to laugh about it. All right, so here we go. First guy says he's 5'10", whatever. Okay, got it. He says he's at 8.5 on a good day. No, he gave himself a 9. All right, none of that's important. making lower middle six figures and own two houses back in Utah. All right, so this guy's doing all right. Both will be rental properties with a few other investments, basically an IRA, part of an Airbnb group, mutual funds, et cetera. My question is mostly around Bitcoin, which we were going to touch on today no matter what. I've heard a lot of differing opinions on it. Some will swear by it. Others like myself are a little more skeptical. My biggest concern is I'm

not a fan of investing money into things I don't understand at all. My plan has always been to buy as many rental properties as I can get my hands on because they aren't making more land ever. Line from the Sopranos. Do you think it'll be smarter to diversify more and instead of using $60,000 for a down payment or, say, a duplex, or buying one Bitcoin as a way of giving myself some sort of foot in the door? Thanks for reading the email. There you go. So he's doing pretty well. Yeah, it's a great question. And, you know,

I think a lot of people have that same question because this thing has come along and taken the world by storm. And a lot of there are a lot of people that were very skeptical of it, even just a few years ago that, you know, they've crossed over and now they're evangelists for digital assets. And, you know, I guess when a new technology arrives, that's what should happen. Everybody shouldn't be a believer on day one. And everyone has like a different rate of time that it takes them to get comfortable with the new technology. I'm going to say a couple of things about this. Number one, not investing in stuff that you don't understand is a pretty good rule of thumb. I think it's a it's a. So why don't you spend the time trying to actually understand it so that you can check that off the list?

Like the thing holding me back from being in Bitcoin is I don't get it. Well, try to get it like spend more time doing the work and you it it still may not click. What's your Bitcoin stance, by the way? It's real. No, you're are, are you bullish? Are you in it? I mean, I'm in it. I don't have any good view about, like, should it go to $100,000?

Is it going to go to $20,000 first? My opinion is as worthless as everyone else's. I don't really think that anyone's price target is based on anything. It's really a belief. We were able to book you. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, it's the best answer.

It's honestly the best answer because here's my thing on it is I took me forever to figure it out. All right. I was reading about it nonstop. You know, I read, I remember reading the first magazine about it and going like, Oh, this doesn't make any sense. Right. Like everybody else. And then I have some of the smartest people I know that are long going to be like, no, you don't understand the principles. And now that I understand the principles, I'm like, man, if this thing actually exists and there's only so many, and then we worry about inflation and print money left and right, like I get all of it. It's the new gold. But then the counter to that is some of the sketchiest human beings I've ever

encountered love Bitcoin too. So when I had those people being like, dude, you got to buy Bitcoin. I'm like, I wouldn't hire you to vacuum my car. So I guess that's my struggle with it. So go ahead. So I started buying in 2017 about 3,000 on a technical basis. I'm looking at the chart. It hit 3,000, backed off, and then it was breaking out of 3,000 again with much more rapid transactions taking place, which if you look at a stock or a commodity, oil, gold, that's to me, that kind of a breakout, that's when something just can no longer be ignored. And I wrote a blog post the day I bought it. It was like the spring of 2017. And I was just like, anything that can't be killed, you have to pay attention to. And this is soon after the Mt. Gox blow up.

The first big crypto brokerage got hacked. Everybody had their shit stolen. And the thing still rebounded in price. You would have thought that would have been the end. That was just the beginning. And that was my point. And I just said, I don't have a price target. I don't have a fundamental way of valuing it.

I don't have a belief system. I'm not a hippie, like a disruption hippie. I'm just saying, this thing cannot be killed. You have to pay attention. And I bought some so I could learn more about it. And it went from 3,000 to 18,000 within six months. And then it fell all the way back down to, I guess, 4,000 or 5,000. That's when I lost interest in it. But the people building things based on Bitcoin never lost interest. And I know them all. They're all like fintech people. So I kind of like kept my one eye on it. But I think at this point, what we figured out is it's not a currency.

Cryptocurrency is a misnomer. Probably the best use case is a store of value. It does act like gold 2.0. If ever there were a moment that gold should have had an explosive move to the upside, it would have been 2020. And in fact, the opposite happened. Gold crashed. Why did gold crash? We expanded the money supply by 26% in one year.

Unheard of. We're literally mailing money to people. We've never done this, ever. You just had this unbelievable, trillions of dollars of stimulus. Gold should have gone to 5,000 an ounce, but it didn't. It fell.

Why? There's only one reason why. All of those trillions of dollars went into crypto instead. So now here's the key thing. I saw Bill Maher do this whole thing last weekend about how it's fake, blah, blah. If enough people believe in it, it's no more fake than gold is. Gold has no intrinsic reason to go up or have any value. It's a belief system. If enough people believe that it has value, then de facto it has value. then de facto, it has value. This is no different. And it makes a lot of sense when you consider how much of our lives we live digitally. Nobody wants to have a brick of gold in their hands if they don't have to, and they can have that same store of value-like effect. So the people buying Bitcoin

today, in a previous generation, they would have been buying gold coins. So I think that gold 2.0 rationale for why it has value makes more sense than any of the others. I don't think we should ever think about it in terms of its value as a medium of transaction because it has none and there's no need for it. Credit cards work great. So the store of value thing, I think, is what we're running with. That seems to be consensus now among all the Wall Street firms, banks, broker-dealers. They're all getting in on the action, and that's how they're pitching it. So if you just think about it that way, it's very, very easy to move around.

You don't have to carry it. It doesn't weigh anything. And it's something that's outside of the traditional U.S. banking system. That's all you really need to know. To answer this kid's question though, you probably will understand better what happens with a duplex than you will with crypto. So if you really want to be invested in something that you could be hands-on and consider yourself an expert, real estate's going to be a better bet. And then you just have to think about the regret

minimization part. If you see Bitcoin go to 100,000 a coin and you don't buy any, are you going to want to kill yourself? Because if that's the case, you don't have to buy one Bitcoin. You can buy it fractionally and maybe that's what you should do

along with the duplex. If I get another text from somebody who I like being like, I can't believe this. I should have bought Bitcoin. I'm like, you didn't. You didn right buy the dog so buy dogecoin now buy the other one right um i like you almost called it dog uh i i would ask this kind of on my own because i saw you guys talking about it a little bit earlier today some of the biden uh real estate tax proposals that would

you know change a lot of things how much do you think that could impact, say, a guy like the emailer here who's leveraging properties, but if he's trying to flip them here and then getting rid of the 1031, I mean, there's some stuff that, there's proposals in what can get passed, but have you started to get a sense on some of your people that are heavier into real estate and how concerned they could be about how this changes what profits are? I would say that every time a new democratic administration comes in, all of these things get brought back up and nothing ever really happens. So I think what's more likely is there's going to be horse trading, but the corporate tax rate, I think, probably has

to go up into the high 20s from 21%. I wouldn't be shocked if they get the capital gains hike for households earning over a million in income. That is very few households. They have power in terms of their ability to contribute to super PACs and elect people, but it's not a lot of people in that group. Probably most of the people listening to this are not earning like W-2 income of a million dollars or more. So that one seems likely to happen. But then all of this stuff about we're going to put taxes on muni bonds, we're going to eliminate real estate, transaction tax, et cetera, that always happens with new democratic administrations. But when push comes to shove, new democratic administrations. But when push comes to shove, there's just not enough political power behind the force to actually accomplish it. So probably before panicking,

you should actually wait to see what goes through. Okay. Here's another one. A huge fan of the show, background 23, financial advisor for a midsize firm working on a 10-man team with one of the co-founders of the company. Situations be set up beautifully for me where the advisors that I work with have been helping me along, allowing me to shadow learn as much as I can. The plan is that they'll be handing off clients to me as some of the older advisors phase out in the next year or so and into the future. However, one problem I keep running into, this is actually, I was reading, laughing at this. I keep running into is these clients, despite the respect they have for their current advisor, seem to only see me as a wide-eyed 23-year-old kid fresh out of college. No shit. I'd like to think I have a good amount of knowledge about investing and in building a really solid foundation of planning, knowledge, and resources. He's referencing a bunch of stuff that I'm not going to bother referencing here, but question for you, maybe more specifically, Josh, this is definitely for Josh. How do I maneuver some of these handoffs to help these clients better understand my value

as I present my perspective and ideas? Okay. So now we come to the realism part of the show. These guys are not handing off any assets to you. You know why? Because brokers die at their fucking desks. They never retire. It's always a lie. I cannot tell you how many people in their 20s and 30s were sold on this story when they got their first job working for a team at Merrill

Lynch or Morgan Stanley or UBS. The guy's like, well, I'm 58, so I'm going to start thinking about retirements. No, you're not. Why would a broker ever retire? They have an annuity stream. Think about it. They can golf three days a week, keep that annuity stream, and keep the 20-year-old on the hook doing all the work, answering the calls, right? So the average age of a financial advisor in America is 59. We are the second oldest profession in the country. What's older? Walmart greeters. Oh, okay.

That's average. That's average. You know how many financial advisors there are who are 80? That's true. It's 59. Yes. Yes. So we have an industry where nobody ever leaves.

Nobody retires. Why would they? Think about a financial advisor who's 75. How old do you think their clients are, the ones who are still left? 75. 75 and up. Right. 70 and up.

Let's be generous. Those people don't call anymore. So the broker is just like, he's like a rock that's gathered moss for decades. He sat in the corner office at UBS. People came and went. The firm got acquired, right? New people came and went. All of these assets just keep accruing to that corner office whale broker. And all he has to do is probably answer one or two phone calls a week, spends the whole week golfing, planning his next vacation. He's not leaving. Nobody leaves that job. There's no physical demand on that person. And the pandemic actually makes it worse. Now he doesn't even have to get up and put on a suit. Now he can literally do nothing from home. So you have tons of these junior advisors. I know them. I hang out with them at conferences. What you have to do in that position is you have to build your own book of business.

You cannot rely on those assets being handed to you. By the time those clients are being handed to you, they're not even, they think you're their grandson. Like they're not even with it anymore. You don't want an 80-year-old book, right? So yeah, you really have to build your own thing. You can do that at that practice, but you have to come up with a strategy for building your own clients. Nobody's giving you shit. Yeah. You just have to hope that out of your college buddies, you were the one that they

thought was responsible and not a disaster. And if you're the responsible one, then they'll start making a little money in a few years and that's how you're going to build your book. I think the only thing I would add to that, because I can't add that perspective is the biggest mistake you can make at 23, if you're at this firm and you don't have other options right now after Josh has bummed you out with that answer. But the worst thing you can do is start being like mad about it. You know what I mean? Like, Hey, what's going on? Because then you're going to turn off all the other guys in the firm. Yeah. So we have, I have, I have advisors in their twenties. I actually have somebody starting have, I have advisors in their twenties.

I actually have somebody starting next week who graduated college last week. So we're doing, we're training. We're, we're not telling these kids is that we're going to hand you a account. It's never going to happen.

We're not saying to people, the older advisors are going to start retiring and slowing down and giving up accounts. They're not, that's not, that's not reality. What we're telling our young people who are becoming financial advisors with us

is that we are going to train them and support them until such time as they look old enough to actually sit face-to-face with the wealthy family. We're going to support these kids and teach them everything. And then we're going to show them how to build it for themselves. And that's, I think, the kind of firm that you want to be a part of. A firm that is actively training the next generation of advisors, not selling them promises.

Keep doing all the work for me. One day I'll give you the book. It's a lie. Okay. This one's more specific. So this is good. Big fan, Josh, watching on CNBC every day. Okay. I'm going to try to sift through this a little bit here. 27-year-old male, 90 grand a year. What do the biceps look like? He left that out. He does work for a big... Calf diameter?

He's out at a big pharma company. He's in Seattle, about to start a master's program in the fall where I'll be reimbursed for tuition, required to pay back. All right, so it sounds like he's good set up there. At home here in the area, I'll be reimbursed for tuition required to pay back. All right. So it sounds like he's good set up there at home here in the area. I would be, Oh, he wants to buy this house. He's interested in the area.

It's in the 500 to $600,000 range. I want to have at least a hundred to 120,000 as a down payment. So we're talking 20% pretty standard. I currently have about 50,000 dedicated to this and it's a hundred percent invested in the market. All right, so here's where we're getting to it. He's got 15 grand in emergency fund too. Okay, just adding it all up here. So he wants to be at 100, 120 grand here for the down payment on the house in a year, but he's got 50 grand that he's allotted to this now. now. So he's basically saying, I have a relatively short time horizon needing this for a down payment. I expect given my current savings rate, I'll be around 65, 70 liquid by the end of 2021. So it'll be another two years for me to reach that goal. He's 70% in index ETFs. Then he lists all the funds he's in. He's in Apple, Amazon, nice running pen. So basically, it sounds like he's wondering what your options would be here if he's trying to speed

up the schedule of having that down payment, which he doesn't have right now. Yeah. So the longer time horizon you have, the more likely it is that you'll have gains in stocks. And that's great, but it works in the converse way as well. The shorter time horizon you have, the more variability there will be in returns. So just like a very quick example of that, go back to 1926, almost a full hundred years worth of history that we have reliable data for. There isn't a single 20-year rolling time period. So pick any month of any year over the last 100 years and roll that forward 20 years. There's not one single instance in which stocks were lower

from wherever you started, but that's 20 years. Then you look at 10 years and it's more like 88% of the time you'd be higher. And you look at five years. So the shorter your time horizon, the less sure you can be that you'll have a gain in stocks. When we're talking about three to five years, the market on average falls 20% every three years. It doesn't happen. It's not like a bus schedule where you can set your watch, buy it. You could have that happen twice within two months or never in five years.

And you just have to understand that variability. You're putting this down payment money at risk the longer you keep it in stock. So I think you should have a plan every, let's say every quarter over the next five years, every quarter to knock down some of that stock exposure and go to cash. Or you could say to yourself,

I know I'm rolling the dice by staying invested with this money that I might need. And I might just have to have a smaller down payment and take a bigger mortgage as a result of that risk that I'm taking. Those are really your only two choices. But I don't think if you know you're going to use that money in the next three years, that money should sit in the stock market. I think it's a mistake. Right, because we're talking if we're, you know, look, it's been on fire now since March of last year. There's been a lot of people that have made money off of that. But I think even people that have made money off of it have probably already gotten out numerous times.

Let me give you a stat. Yeah. So we have 40 million new brokerage accounts created last year. It is the biggest inbound wave of young investors since the late nineties. Like we really haven't seen anything like this in 20 years, which is great. I love it. Here's the problem. The market environment that they learn to invest in is so outrageously abnormal. But of course, how could they know? Even if I tell them that experience. So here, two stats and Ben Carlson and Michael Batnick, guys that work at my firm, they're

the Animal Spirits podcast. I know you guys have a lot of listener overlap. They actually opened the show this week, Ryan, talking about your roommate theory. They like the roommate theory. They love you. They love you. They love the, Ryan, talking about your roommate theory. They like the roommate theory. They love you. They love you. They love the theory. All right. So two stats. From March 23rd of last year, which was the market bottom during the pandemic, through March 23rd of this year, 12 months, 95.9% of the 3,000 stocks in the S stock market had a positive total return. That means anything you bought went up.

Okay. Right. So there's all these people being like, I can't believe I wasn't doing this before. Yeah. They're geniuses. So that's one. Here's the other one.

Over the last 12 months. And this is, I think, uh, through April through the end of April or the last 12 months, we had a 75% gain for the S&P 500. So that's from the bottom a year later. That is the highest one-year return since 1950. The best year ever to be an investor in the overall market and the best year ever to be

picking individual stocks. You may live the rest of your life and never experience a 12-month run like we've just had ever again. But that is the market environment that now this entire generation thinks is like, this is how it works. I put money in, the thing is green the next day. It's even greener the day after. Oh, it's the best feeling ever. So this is, I hate to say this, they're going to start raising interest rates at some point in the next couple of years. Financial liquidity conditions are going to start getting tighter. And the automatic gains of just buy SPACs, buy coins, fucking buy options,

that's not going to be automatic gains anymore. And it's going to be a rude awakening for people. Uh, I think ultimately it will be healthy and the sooner the better. I hope they can get on with it. Um, so anyway, I mean, he's asking for a lottery ticket really is what he's asking for here.

And it's, I think your, your advice is that like, I'd be scared to have that money exposed if you're saving for the down payment at this point, especially at 34,000. Like, I mean,

I don't know. I'd be scared of death. In 2018, we had two separate drawdowns of 20% during the course of one calendar year. Like people don't even remember it because compared to the pandemic, who even thinks about 20% anymore? We saw 35% in 16 days, but in January of 2018, stock market fell 21%. No news, just did. And then September into Christmas, another 20% bludgeoning. That happened twice in one year. So if you're talking about, I need this money in three years, I would say you want to start getting liquid now, moving some assets into cash. now moving some assets into cash. Okay. All right. I'm going to do one that covers a bunch.

I didn't send this email to you because this was a lot. And I think this is important to make sure this part of the audience, because the audience is really young too on this podcast. What do you do for the guy? He's out of school. Depending on what his loan situation, it's all over the place for everybody. I feel horrible for this generation for the tab they get stuck with. It's bullshit. That's another topic.

50, 60K. everybody i feel horrible for this generation for the the tab they get stuck with it's bullshit that's another topic um 50 60k maybe you maybe it's a job more than it's a career maybe you're lucky enough that it's the start of your career but you just your simple thing is i just 60 income right but you're just saying hey i don't want to fuck it up like i want to start the process okay i you know again i don't know if you have day trading history here but anytime somebody's young is, it's like, no, I think I'm pretty good at it. I'm like, all right, cool. You know, I hate when I hear that, but what would you give kind of the, the, the big advice to so many different variables here for, it's just a young person out of school. That's like, you know what? I actually want to figure out a way to start a successful path of, of financial planning. I mean, don't day trade. It's not a career.

I know career day traders. There are so few of them that have actually been successful. Even the best day trading firms, they switched everything over to computers. They don't have guys sitting there watching CNBC and then trading off of it. That's not a profession. They have software programs that are running, and the people they hire are from MIT. These Russian, literally Russian codebreakers, that's who you're competing

with. It's the dumbest idea imaginable to think that you're going to be able to do that as a profession. So few people can actually do it. I know you have a big fitness audience. There are essentially two body types for professional traders. They tend to fall into two buckets. And I've known thousands of traders on Wall Street, off Wall Street. There's like two ways that this lifestyle will manifest for you because you're basically sitting on a desk, giving yourself anxiety half the time and then celebrating the other half the time. It's a very tough way to live. You're tied to the screen. So here are the two body types. One is morbidly obese, like literally a mouse in the right hand and a sandwich in the left hand because you're just sitting there all day. And you feel like if you get up for even a minute,

you're going to get wiped out or you're going to miss the opportunity of a lifetime. So it's very sedentary thing to like have money at risk in the market and have to sit there watching it all day. The other body type is insane, lunatic gym rat, like, like literally pushups and sit-ups in between trades. And there's really no one in between. So you have to decide which of those two things you want to look like and you want to be, because that's what ends up happening with traders. You basically have one of those two choices. So ask yourself, do you want to work in a profession and live a lifestyle where there were only those two body types and you have to pick one or the other? So I don't think it's reasonable for people to think that they're going to be professional gamblers. And day trading is gambling. There's an art and a sophistication to it. There's risk

management and there's math. And I'm not putting it down. I know people that are doing it well, or at least have for a long period of time, but it's a very tough career to be a pro gambler. I'm not sure why anyone would subject themselves to that. All of the romance of slinging trades back and forth, and I have eight screens in front of me, and the magazines with traders on private jets, it's all fake. It's not realistic. The eight screen thing always looks so cool though, whenever you see that set up at some guy's place. All right. I have two more that I have to finish here before we're done because I got to let you go at some point because I could do this forever. So was there any follow-up though beyond the day trader, just the guy that's at the office, the income 50, 60 grand, just trying to figure out,

is there any advice you would give that guy? Sorry. Yeah. Take the money that you would put at risk in the market and try to earn some certifications to do some things that people really need. The most important career path from now forward, I tell my kids this all the time, is empathy. You have to make people believe that you understand their problems and that you can help solve them. That's all that's going to be left. Anything that can be automated, including trading, will be automated. Anything that involves strength,

a robot will do that work. The only thing left, now that we're all going to have money, the Fed's going to print it, put it in our accounts. We're going to have more time than we know what to do with because no one's ever going back to an office again. People are going to want to buy it, put it in our accounts. We're going to have more time than we know what to do with because no one's ever going

back to an office again. People are going to want to buy art, go to restaurants. They're going to want people to talk to about psychology and their emotions. They're going to have hobbies. You have to make yourself useful in this new world. And the best way to do that is to get certified, have skills, have things that people are willing to pay for. Professional gambling does not fit into that category. So I think empathy and creativity,

that's the kind of stuff that you want to build toward. And you want to get some actual licenses, no matter what field you're in, some certifications that you actually can do what you're marketing and saying that you can do. Okay. We got a big winner here at last email. He got a Bitcoin a few years ago. He says his holdings are now around a million dollars. So he goes, look, right. And he goes, look, I know I'm going to get hit on the gains tax, whatever. He goes, I'm still bullish on Bitcoin, my mental model for it.

All right. So another gold 2.0 here. So he's given us some of the figures. This is interesting though. He goes, I'm sitting on a winning lottery ticket. He hasn't cashed out of it. Also to complicate this. I haven't told anyone. I haven't told my friends, my family know that I have it, but they assume I'm, I have like one singular coin or something. This isn't quit my job level of money sitting at a million pre-tax. Um, and I haven't changed the way I live at all.

And, um, you know, he's obviously so positive. The questions are this, do I sell any gains and diversify, even though I'm still very bullish on it too? Do I tell my friends and family, I understand this is a personal one, but we'd love advice on this three. Should I change the way I, uh, protect this given I technically have about a million dollars of value on my USB, uh, at a bedside cabinet. Yeah. All right. So there's a lot, there's a great,

it's a great email and this guy won. So props, you know, first and foremost, like congratulations, but there's a lot of problematic stuff going on here. You can tell your family, but now they're going to judge what you decide to do next.

Yeah. For the rest of your, like for the rest of your life, you don't want to be the guy that had the winning lottery ticket and like drop it in the toilet or something like, right. Or put it down the,

put it down the garbage chute by accident with the mail. So like just prepare for judgment forever. So I actually don't think you should tell the IRS if you end up selling it for sure. But, but the family...

Yeah, that one makes sense. Yeah. It depends on what your family is. Like, how successful is the rest of your family? You know what I mean? Are they doing their own thing? Are they going to be proud of you? Or do you have some people in the family that aren't doing that well?

And the next thing you know, it's not only are they judging you, as you point out, but now the asks are a little different. Because it's weird. If you had cranked away at some industry for 10, 15 years and then put a million dollars away, they may go like, man, he's such a hard worker and this is great, but this may seem frivolous to them. So they may be asking you for stuff being like, oh, whatever, this is all free money when it's actually the same thing. You just were smarter and got it done quicker. That's exactly right. So now here's what you're faced with with Bitcoin going forward. We took a look this morning at rolling 30-day standard deviation, which is a measure of volatility. How much does Bitcoin move over the course of a rolling 30-day period?

And of course, that measure in and of itself fluctuates. So for example, as recently as February, that was 6%. Right now, it's about 3%. But even 3%, the US stock market is about half a percent. So Bitcoin is like six times more volatile than stocks, right? It's like a good mental model, a good way to think about that. Now that volatility is worked in your favor because volatility can be bad, like when something's going down, or good when something's rallying and going up. But be that as it may, that million dollars is not going to be a million. It could be 2 million. It could be 500,000. I could picture anything in between happening over the next month, two months. It's only May and Bitcoin is in the middle of its

third 20% drawdown from a peak. So that is stock market volatility on steroids. Yeah. That's a great number. Now that's number one. I used the term earlier, Ryan, regret minimization. This is actually one of the most important terms that you'll ever come across as it relates to investing in personal finance. Questions should not be answered based on what's going to happen in the future. Nobody knows shit.

And as proof of that, there was a moment a year ago where crude oil sold at a negative number. People forget that that actually happened. A barrel of oil was worth negative dollars. People were paying you to take oil from them. That's literally what that means. So this idea that anyone can give you a black and white answer of what's going to happen with this million dollar Bitcoin, you have to get that out of your mind. So rather than answer questions based on what's going to happen, let's instead ask questions on the basis of regret minimization. Let's start with these five. Why did I buy it in the first place? Okay. Number two, are there better investment opportunities elsewhere? Sometimes that helps you sell out of something because there's something better to do

with it. You don't have anything better to do with it. It's hard to convince yourself to sell any of it. Um, so do I have a better use for this money? Think about this. Jim Cramer sold off his Bitcoin profits and, or maybe all of his Bitcoin and paid off his mortgage. So that's like an example of, I have something better to do with it. Okay. Do you have an investment plan? Are you rebalancing? Do you have a sell discipline? Are you planning to buy and hold forever? You have to answer that for every asset you own, including real estate, including stocks and including Bitcoin. And sometimes that will bring you to the right course of action. But this is the big one. Ask yourself this, what would you most regret? Selling and missing out on further gains or seeing your million dollars go to $400,000 in a crash?

Which one of those is your nightmare? For most people, it's the latter. It's seeing a million turn into 400 grand, losing 600,000, even if it's on paper. For most people, Danny Kahneman won the Nobel Prize in Economics they awarded for this idea of risk aversion. We feel losses at twice the strength as we feel the joy of a gain. Now, that makes sense that we would be wired that way from a sociological or an anthropological, am I saying that right?

Perspective. Anthropological. Anthropological perspective. Oh, that lion looks, baby lion looks cute. I'm going to go pet it, right? We should have loss aversion, right? So that is hardwired into our DNA. So I think the answer is probably, if that million gets cut in half, it's going to feel way worse than the million going to 1.5. So maybe that's the reason why you might want to take some down. Just understand you're being taxed, not a capital gains rate, and there is no 1031 exchange for Bitcoin. You're being taxed as though it's a collectible. So it's a high tax rate that you're paying for whatever you sell. So use regret minimization and the potential negative tax consequences as your guide for how much or how little you

actually want to take off the table. This is great. Great stuff. We can follow you where? You can follow me at thereformbroker.com. That's where all my stuff ends up. Hey, thank you so much. This was incredible. I hope everybody enjoyed it. Let's catch up. All right. Absolutely. My pleasure pleasure great seeing you ryan you