The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Trent Dilfer on Rookie QB Struggles. Plus, the Future of the ManningCast.

Episode Date: September 29, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the alternate broadcast on ESPN's 'Monday Night Football' (0:55). Then he is joined by Super Bowl champion Trent Dilfer to discuss Justin Herbert's promising future, other rookie QBs through three weeks, good vs. bad play-calling, and more (12:55). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitter Life Advice questions (52:50). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Trent Dilfer Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? I'm J.J. John G. Stramski. And I'm Jason Goff, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire, I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm repping Chi-Town with my new show, The Full Goal on all things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction of the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines. So whether you're uptown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant, make sure you follow

New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Trent Dilfer is going to be awesome on this show today. I can't wait for you to hear what he has to say about the young QBs,

Justin Herbert, et cetera. We're also going to do a little on the Manning cast that everybody seems to love on social media, which is always a rare thing. And we'll finish it with life advice. For the next two hours, I want to talk about a topic that none of us even knew existed. And that is LeBron James as an NFL tight end. Would he be a Hall of Famer?

How many Super Bowls would he win? Look, this story is so old and he said it on the Manning cast this week and people can't help themselves with this thing. ESPN, whenever it's a LeBron thing. Can you imagine if LeBron said, hey, these are my five favorite TV shows?

People would be like, hey, I know the World Series starts this week but we're going to have to bump it. LeBron listed his Netflix shows. ESPN has such an obsession. If he tweets out anything, it's auto. It's auto from the ESPN main feed. So then when the tight end part where LeBron came on, if you haven't watched it yet, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning,

the Manning cast, they do it Monday Night Football. It's on ESPN too. It's terrific. That's something ESPN has done a great job with. I want to spend a few minutes talking about it. But it was when LeBron was like, yeah, they made me an offer. I'm like, yeah, we've already heard this all before. I don't know if he'd be a great tight end.

I wouldn't want to ever doubt him, but I also know that he's not somebody who exactly loves contact in NBA games. And look, I'm doing it. I'm starting to break him down as a potential NFL tight end. You know what probably turned him into an NBA player was being six foot fucking eight. That'd be my guess.

He said it was because of his high school quarterback. I think it was probably because he was one of the most gifted basketball players we had ever seen in maybe a 30-year window. But again, just a hunch. Okay, the Manning cast. Kyle, have you watched it? Yeah. Thoughts?

If those guys are on Monday Night Football, I'll be watching that instead of the main cast. Okay. That's a big vote for the main cast. So you'll stay with them all three hours? Yeah. I mean, and it's Monday Night Football. So, I mean, chances are I'll be hitting the Xbox and just checking in and out. But I saw Chris Long was coming up,

so I definitely, I too did, because that's our guy. That's right. So, Rudy? Yeah, I was more interested because of the guest I too did, because that's our guy. That's right. So Rudy? Yeah, I was more interested because of the guest list. Obviously, they're great. But as you noted, teasing could be a little bit better. Maybe some of the questions could be a little bit more pointed. Peyton likes

to do the talk about question, which was always a non-starter at ESPN. I guess he hasn't got the... Who was the guy? I forget the question guy that everyone used to go to. Swatsky. There you go. He hasn't got the... Who was the guy? I forget the question guy that everyone used to go to. Swatsky, there you go. He hasn't got the Swatsky training yet. So he'll get there.

But I enjoy it. But is it crazy that I kind of still prefer a traditional broadcast? I feel like everyone's going to shame me now because of that. No, I think you're right because here's where I... I like that it's different.

I like that anyone, ESPN, anybody, trying something different. And I'm all for it uh the formatics aren't great but that's kind of the part that i like i like that it's not polished um i there's definitely things where i feel like i mean eli plays the role of the little brother perfectly like you watch it and you go oh yeah that's his little brother i mean payton just talks right over the top entire time yeah um the questions you're right aren't. They go to commercial break in the middle of somebody's answer. But again, they don't know. It's not like a radio clock

where you know when you're going to break. For this one, it's like, hey, we don't know if there's going to be an injury, a timeout, or a change of possession or something like that. They can make all that a little crisper, but I'd rather it be this loose. I'd rather it have this much freedom because I think if people got more involved with it, it'd be a bigger problem. But last night, or excuse me,

Monday night is a perfect example where the Manning cast can shine because it's a blowout. It really wasn't that close. I mean, there was a chance that we thought maybe the Eagles, if they got another scorer back in that game, didn't really feel that way. They were struggling all night long. Dallas is really good.

Dak Prescott is terrific, so we've already covered all that kind of stuff. But if it's a close game, I'm going back to Levy, Greasy, and Lewis Riddick. And by the way, I think those guys are really good. The problem is, is those guys are going up against something new with the star power of Peyton and Eli Manning. And if there's one thing that you ever learned from me on this podcast, at least when it comes to the business stuff, is that ESPN, Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC, all of this stuff, they're star obsessed because we as a

society are star obsessed. we as a society are star obsessed. There's a reason why People Magazine works. You think you don't care about Ben and Jennifer? You do more than you think. You do more than you're willing to admit. You know what I'm saying? There's plenty of stuff that we're like, I don't care about.

People care about this stuff. People like stars. There's something about stars. We're obsessed with it. I've had, let me see here. I never wanted to do any reality television except for one project that I worked on long ago. And I was coming home from work and cold calling people because I was obsessed with the idea of life coaches and what their background was to become who they were. Not that I ever wanted to be one, but I just liked the concept because I liked that some people were actually really good at it. And I also loved that some people were totally full of shit. So I started researching it all. I started calling some of these people and I thought, Hey, what a great idea if you could kind of have this reality show built around life coaches. And then the funny thing is I've had a couple of people approach

me about the life advice thing being like, Hey, do you think you could turn that into something more than it is now? And I was like, I don't know. I don't know. Every time it was ever brought up in any kind of meeting, it was always, well, if you're going to do the life coach thing, you should have these celebrity life coaches. Or if you want to do life advice television version, you'd have to have celebrities. How many celebrities do you know? And that's how we'll go ahead and pitch it. It's like, unless you have celebrities tagged to any of this stuff that's reality-based, no one gives a shit about any of it. And it's the same way. It's why Jerry Rice gets a deal immediately as on the top shows. It's why Emmett Smith got a top deal immediately, even though those guys were not nearly polished

enough. I talked to an executive years ago about Kevin Garnett coming to ESPN. And I was like, how did that go? Because Kevin Garnett's a little different. Like, you're not just going to roll them out there for maybe a countdown and expect that it's going to be normal. And that's where I think TNT, kind of like the Manning cast, Kevin Garnett found a way to kind of make it work.

It's a little different. KG's world, 21 or whatever it is. It's definitely different. It's not the same, but I don't think you can put KG in that kind of environment. And so when I was asking the exec, the exec was like, well, look, all you guys on air have it all figured out, right? I'm in the meeting with these guys. One of the first things KG did was like, I want this much money and I want this much time off. Because that's another thing. The Manning cast is like, hey, awesome. This is awesome. Oh, we'll see you guys week 10. People are like, wait, how's that work? I'm like, you know what's funny about people that have like 100 million or more in the bank already? They don't really want to screw up their week every single week.

They don't want to be on every single weekend. Tony Romo is going to make a ton of money with CBS for the rest of his life. He also has a ton of time off in there too. Whenever I think about them casting Monday Night Football or whatever and there's people that I'm friends with that aren't the biggest stars or there's somebody who I think is good

and better than the big name guy like Mark Schleyer is the perfect example. Mark Schleyer could have done Monday Night Football. They could have done it a bunch of different ways, but he's an offensive lineman from a previous generation, so not enough people knew who he was. I always thought he was really good on TV, and I just liked the guy. There's other really good examples of guys

that I think are capable of doing that job. I'm trying to think of somebody. I don't know if Dilfer is a good example, but if Trent Dilfer were announced Monday Night Football booth, would it be met with? Maybe. You know what I mean? Dilfer could have been Monday Night Football booth, would it be met with, eh, maybe. You know what I mean? Like, and Dilfer could have been the Monday Night plant, but it might have been met with like a tepid response, all right?

Lukewarm. Where you get the Manning sign onto it, it's like, okay, now we've got something here, but it's going to be on their terms, their production company. And oddly enough, this thing has worked because it's been really cool and it hasn't felt corporate at all. And I think if ESPN were to say, hey, we're going to pay you whatever you want, and then we're going to make you the main broadcast, but we're going to try to tighten up some of these little things, there would be moments where I go, all right, maybe I don't want to do 17 weeks of this entire thing. Maybe I don't want Nick Saban talking about an

Ole Miss game from 20 years ago while it's a tie game late in the third quarter. So I don't know that we're going to see a total pivot. And that's what happens. It's like we get a little taste of something that's dessert. And we're just like, I want to eat this every single day. Then you eat it every single day. And you go, OK, this is why I don't eat this every single day. So the other part of the Manning cast that I thought was great is they have moments in there

where they're teaching you some stuff, like little stuff, when they started talking about the screen, the wide receiver screen, and they go, you know, that's tougher to throw when you're playing bump coverage there because you can't,

if you have two versus two on the wide receiver screen and they're playing up on the line of scrimmage to jam you immediately, it's harder to get that rubber out to get one guy on the other side free with two defenders caught up with the other guy. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

And then they go, the key is if you have it single and the guy's off, I'm going to go under center because now I have the football even quicker than if I were taking it out of shotgun. And I was like, wow, okay, yeah, now we're cooking. My favorite part of the broadcast was the Cowboys decided to go for it again on fourth and goal essentially. They'd been stopped on a few plays. They'd been stopped before where Dak looked like he fumbled. I don't know. That seemed like a bad call. But you understand, it wasn't really

working out in goal-to-go situations. And both Manning's like, oh, I guess they're going for it on fourth here instead of making a 16-point game. And it's like, hey, you're going to need two scores and two two-point conversions. You like your chances. And they go, all right, we're going to go for it. And Peyton was awesome because he's saying, all right, so let me get this straight. It didn't work the first three plays, and now you have the play or it's going to work?

And I'm like, yeah, you're right. So what, were you hiding the good one? You already ran your best stuff. You had three shots at it. Two were probably the best plays you had. Maybe all three were your best goal to goal plays that you called and they didn't work. And then, of course, as he's saying, this

ends up being a touchdown where Dak missed, I think his first read and then everything broke down. He kept it alive long enough and then, you know, there you go. It's a touchdown in those guys. But like, I loved that thought process. I loved when they were looking at Mike McCarthy being like, how come you're not calling a timeout here as the Eagles are getting ready to make a fourth down decision?

And let's call a timeout, make them punt the football, make them long snap, make them punt it, make, you know, you have a return, who knows, make them do those things. What the hell's wrong with you? But what I liked about it is that even though they were down on the fourth down call that led to a touchdown, so we could play the results and say that they were wrong, they were right in their methodology. And it also speaks to my thing on fourth downs where everybody just looks at numbers and goes oh you're an idiot because you didn't go for it here and fucking win probability which is the most useless thing anybody's ever tweeted to anybody okay rusello doesn't understand probabilities though no i do but i also understand how dumb it is and how relevant it is and it's not

it's not it's specific to who you are as a team maybe even in that actual matchup and i thought that that was really revealing because i'm just not an i'm not an absolutist on a bunch of different things right like there's a lot of stuff where i have an open mind i have a lean there's very very rarely am i like it is this and it is only this a A guy who grew up in a seafood destination, if you were to go out on a first date and wear the hat from a clam shack that says, eat me raw, that is absolutely a bad idea. So that one I would concede. Whenever I saw that hat, you're like, at what age do you put that on where it's no longer ironic? And you're just like,

there's no way this hat's hilarious. See how this is i do um there's really not much more to add to this other than i like it but my fear will be that because it's doing pretty well and again if that game were close i would have been right back to levy and the guys in a second that if it does really well, there'll be a push to be like, hey, should we do this? And I feel like it's going to be a bit like never having dinner and only having dessert. And you're going to go, oh, this actually doesn't work when you're on the main stage. I think the side stage deal is where this belongs. And I enjoy the hell of it. And by the way, the other people that are like, how did they do this? They did it. These guys have known each other for 40 plus years, right? So whoever you want to throw together, it's the PTI thing. PTI works for a bunch of reasons. Production is terrific.

Topically, they're on it every single day, but it's a friendship that's on television, a friendship that was there, a chemistry that existed, what, decades before they ever were on PTI, Kornheiser-Wilbon. You have the exact same thing, even if Peyton talks over Eli all the time. Trent Dilfer, Weekly Visit. Okay, let's go here. I want to start with Justin Herbert because, look because we're all fascinated with who's what and where are all these guys and all this stuff, but it wasn't a great staff last year. There were a lot of things you looked at over the Chargers rookie season. You're like, this isn't exactly a great situation, and yet he was showing us moments of like, okay, of all these other rookies that we're going to get to, he was the one that you were like, wait, this, this actually looks like it's working. So now we're in a year two and they beat the chiefs at their place game could have gone, you know,

a bunch of different ways, but what are you seeing from him and like who he can be in this league in a very short amount of time? I mean, he can be one of the best. Uh, he's drew blood. So with more athleticism and the more athleticism actually is a big deal. In today's football, that ability to extend plays, create time and space for yourself, let your play caller be more creative in where the launch point is.

You can get the ball down the field more. See one of the limiting factors in pushing the ball down the field is an arm strength. It's time and it's hard to protect for a long time than i felt well if you're athletic you can change the launch point you see the niners doing it you see the charters doing it you see mahomes doing in kansas city uh where now you can you can build three and a half four second plays because your quarterback can get out there and have more time and then launch that thing down the field so uh he's uberly talented he has very few flaws he's more clutch than i think any of us thought he would be because we really didn't get to see it at oregon uh he's way more

poised than what some of the narratives were coming out. He's a grinder. I know some of those coaches both last year and this year, and they say he's just become a big-time professional at an early age. So he's the real deal. I keep telling people this. Yes, some of these guys are struggling, but we're looking at – we've already seen it for like the last five years. I think we have 10 years of it coming,

the greatest period of quarterbacking we're ever going to see because there's 15 to 20 dudes now that are just wildly talented and offense is fun and they can do everything and the skill position guys are good and defense is at a disadvantage because of the rules. I think he has a chance for the next 10 years to be in the conversation as one of the best, if not the best. Yeah, he was definitely getting it wrong

on the book by its cover deal, whether it was his facial expression. It's funny watching the Manning cast with both Peyton and Eli. You watch Eli and go, I can't believe this guy won two Super Bowls. You know what I mean? If Eli Manning came out with you

on a dinner with your buddies and people started making fun of him the most, as absurd as that would sound, it would actually make the most sense. You'd be like, yeah, we're going to give Eli a hard time here. And everybody loves it. But it's hard to have those things. Where E.J. Manuel came into a room, dominated the room. It was the most impressive seven minutes.

I bring it up all the time because I can't tell you when E.J. Manuel was around ESPN for that day people were like that guy is headed places and it was like yeah it was studio analyst job and and I'm not knocking E.J. Manuel but it was like the book by its cover deal sometimes you can make it way more complicated and Herbert was definitely everything before the draft it was always negative never about his physical skills it was always negative about like are 10 guys going to look back at this guy in the huddle and buy in? And it's like, I don't know. He just doesn't project that way. Well, can I dive into that one a little bit?

Or you want me to just talk more about it? Okay. I think this is a really interesting one. And I started talking about this pre-draft this year more than I ever had before because I really don't care what people think anymore. Here's what happens in media. And I had a behind the curtain experience

with this for nine years, obviously, at ESPN. And I still have a sour taste in my mouth about it. I had this weird, and a few of us do, have this weird dynamic where we're on TV, but we're still really good friends with GMs, head coaches, the real decision makers in the NFL, owners, many of us have great relationships with owners. So we're playing golf, we're hanging out, we're doing things with the people that are

actually making the decisions. And then what we see is our colleagues in TV start a narrative because they hear it from a non-decision-making NFL personnel, and they call it a scout. And all you fans think a scout actually has any say in the building. They have zero. None. Nada. There's not a scout in the NFL that makes a decision. They create reports to then give to the decision-makers. decision they create reports to then give to the decision makers and those decision makers then process it based on the reputation of their scout credibility of their scouts and their history of their scout a lot of times those reports go right in the dumpster it's just menial work that the

scout does now i'm not knocking the scouting Some of my best friends grew up in scouts. My point is that a narrative gets started about a player, a lot of times quarterbacked. I have plenty of scout friends, right? I know what you're saying. Yeah, and who know nothing about quarterback, but they went and got the measurables. They watched them practice. They talked to the janitor. They talked to the strength coach. They talked to some coaches. They developed a report. And what happens is a narrative gets started by They talk to the strength coach. They talk to some coaches. They develop the report. And what happens is a narrative gets started by a media member that they want supported by a NFL personnel person, hence the scout. And that goes out, and the fan believes that that's true. it gets stacked upon it when the cyber warfare starts, pre-draft combine, pre-draft time, cyber warfare starts,

and you start creating false narratives about players that you actually want, but you want other people to think poorly about. So if you do the math here, you actually get behind the scenes. I don't care what's said about quarterbacks anymore because so much of it is either coming from a source that doesn't have any credibility in the quarterback space and it's not a decision maker or it's cyber warfare but there's so many great shows out there i watch them i consume your show i consume call and i consume my buddies at espn so i listen to it too and you're like wait a second why is this going this direction and if I do the math backwards I bet you unless it's a handful of people saying it

it's all garbage anyways but the fan doesn't know that and that's why kind of the tidal wave tidal wave of these anti-Herbert personality narratives happen I I mean, nobody talked about his talent. I'd go on and talk about Justin Herbert. I'm like, listen, I don't know the kid. He's one of the few I don't know. Yeah, because you know most of these kids. I know almost all. I know 95% of them.

This one I didn't know, so I said, I'm not going to speak on something I don't know. I never went to a practice. I have friends that went to practices and raved about him, but I'm not even going to trust them. Here's what I'll tell you the tape says. The tape says he can do anything he wants at quarterback. And if he's given the right situation, he's going to be a star

because there's nothing this kid can't do. What's the most upset a GM got with you when you were at ESPN talking about guys? Is there one that jumps out? Or is there a player? Was there a quarterback that you like it was a i have three tj who's mazada i said something stupid and i wasn't trying to i wasn't trying to rip him um and tj i've been friends for a long time it just didn't come out right you know and he called me out on it i said thank you you totally should call me out on it. I said, thank you. You totally should call me out on this. And I went on and I apologized and rephrased kind of what I was trying to say.

Norv Turner, when he was the head coach, I said something about his team's grit and toughness and resolve. It wasn't showing up. And he was offended by that, as he should be. And he's a dear friend. And again, he should be. And he's a dear friend. And again, he called, he called me and, um, you know, I gave him the, why I said what I said and what I've seen and apologize for how it came out. Uh, GM, I tend to not mess with the GM world because my, I have a, quite a few friends that are GMs and I understand that the difficulty of their jobs. So I didn't really criticize management at that level very often.

I would tend to be more an apologist for GMs when I was on camera. There's others. I mean, you know, you have things taken out of context. And then I've asked a lot of people that got mad at me. I say, just go back and watch it again. Like, don't just listen. Don't just read the tweet or listen to what your buddy told you. Like go back and watch the segment. In fact, here it is.

And I'd have Matthew Garrett clip it off for me, my producer and send it off and say, Hey, here's what I said here. Here's the whole show. Now, are you mad? And 98% of the time it was,

no, they weren't mad once they got the whole clip. But yeah, that's, that's, that's the tricky one, man. I mean, that's happened. Any of us, you do this long enough, you'll see the clip and you go, okay, that's not the whole clip. Like if I spend seven minutes talking about somebody and you take out 30 seconds, you can make it look however you want it to look. However you want it to look, yeah. But, you know, sometimes it just gets you wrong too.

Okay, let's talk rookies. but sometimes it just gets you wrong too. Okay, let's talk rookies. I've been on this now, and I don't know maybe if this first month, we'll see how the rest of the season goes, but maybe this first month can be a nice reminder that when the 2022 preseason stats look really nice for the first-round quarterbacks, whoever they are,

maybe we can stop making that. I mean, Danny Connell, the reason why he's one of my favorite guys, even when I disagree with him all the time, when he would sit there and be like, I'm telling you preseason sucks and it means nothing because it was when I was at my best. He goes, we ran four

verticals against this soft zone. He goes, I went right down the field. He's like, I called the same play and through the same seam route every single time. It's the end of a preseason game. The other team wanted the game to be over. He goes, I looked awesome. It's the easiest touchdown drive of my life.

He goes to go into locker room media availability. And they're like, what did you do? Like, you know, next day, the whole week was Canel learning, picking things up. Look how great he was because of this drive. And he goes, it was the easiest, most meaningless drive. I didn't have to make one fucking decision the whole drive. And he goes, the whole New York media ate it up that it was like, look how quick he was in this two minute, this meaningless drive. I didn't have to make one fucking decision the whole drive. And he goes, the whole New York media ate it up that it was like, look how quick he was in this two minute, this whole thing. All right. So having said all of that, these guys are struggling.

The sharks are circling around Matt and Addy. Dilfer's losing his mind right now about Cannell and the New York media. It's so true. I said this for every year on TV. It's training camp defense. There's such a different, there's college, which can be hard at times in big games. Then there's training camp defense, which is basically college defense with better athletes. And then there's real defense.

And it is a thousand times different than the college defense and the's real defense. And it is a thousand times different than the college defense and the training camp defense. I have not watched a preseason football game in 15 years. Not one. Come on. You haven't been sort of curious and watched a game? Ryan, you're my favorite show I do.

I get asked to do 50 shows. And I get asked to do them all in the preseason time. And I say no to all of them because I don't want to go on camera and talk about football when I know I'm not going to watch it. I refuse to watch preseason football. I don't watch preseason football shows. I don't listen to anything anything i don't care because none of it matters i say yes to all the shows i do after week one and preferably i push back after week two because i want to see what happened in week one because it's really the first time i've seen them yeah because i don't care what happens in training camp now i'll talk to coaches about how they're practicing

what was your third down period like on Wednesday? Because that's real football. You're getting your defense and their third down package against your offense for eight plays, and you're going to see everything. And if Mac Jones handles that well, that means something to me. But the game itself means nothing. All right.

So now that we've seen these guys with a few games, I mean, Zach Wilson is I give him credit. He's attempting deep balls. It's not working. Trevor Lawrence, I think the weird thing with him was at the end of the Arizona game, I think he's had better throws than some of the other guys. But you're like, hey, I don't remember you

being reckless. And that's the confusion of the NFL. And then you have the Nagy situation where nobody is like he is. The Sharks are circling around him the last couple of days. He is like the first guy in the targets of the NFL season. But then you have Fields. Well, a lot of the things that I'm seeing is everybody's holding on to the ball forever, too. I'm not telling anyone that Fields was set up for success. That was a disaster situation.

But overall, like what are you seeing from these guys? Because even Mac Jones, you know, had, I would say, a step back from what people thought he was,

this perfect mistake-free guy that wasn't going to throw it down the field. All right. So I'll start there. Go anywhere you want because I kind of, you know.

Yeah, I thought Mac played really well. Okay. He had three interceptions. First one, he gets hit in the chest. Ball flutters on him. Not his fault. Just one of those conflict interceptions. I think Mack played really well. He had three interceptions. First one, he gets hit in the chest. Ball flutters on his fault. Just one of those conflict interceptions. I think it happens to everybody

a few times a year. Second one, he gets his eyes to the perfect guy on an under route. It's right off his fingertips. Goes off the fingertips to the defender. That's the John O. Smith one? I mean, he's not anybody. He's not everybody's favorite tight end in New England right now. Exactly. Then the third one is with eight or 15 seconds left in the game,

down two scores, just trying to force it in there. I mean, again, that's a Hail Mary, basically. I know it's not a Hail Mary. It was on the 20-yard line. But it's a Hail Mary type interception. So not every interception is created equal. Again, something I've been saying forever. They're actually, I can't believe PFF.

PFF does this, but they need to be even more out there with it equal again something i've been saying forever they're actually i i can't believe pff pff does this but they need to be even more out there with it is like that is not an interception that goes down as an interception but it's not an interception in fact they should start blaming right guards and and wide receivers you know what you're right though there should be an earned run runs thing we've had it when pitching for decades. Yes. So there should be some sort of full interception number and then an earned interception number,

and it's not that hard. It'd be so easy to figure it out. And nobody would benefit more from it than me. My 127 career interceptions would be more in the 80s, which still sucks, but it'd be a lot better than 127. I think the New York media did it with Eli for about a decade. So there was a

he didn't throw. So Mack, yeah, he didn't throw an interception ever. Mack, eyes are right. His feet are right. His processing is right. He is playing professional quarterback. When Josh McDaniels came out and said, I trust him with everything, I don't think that was made up. I don't think that

was just for show. I think they really do trust him. They trust him with the keys of this car. Now, the car is a Prius. It's not a Ferrari. They don't have great personnel it's going to be a little boring at times um the receiver they got from 40 the 49ers born I think his name he he helps them like he's got some juice uh but it it's still a Prius but he's going to drive that Prius pedal to the metal and use all the electricity it possibly has. I think he's playing really well. Fields, Nagy's offense has gone spread. He's fallen in love with the spread. And if you go back to the Kansas City years,

that's kind of what he was known for was adding the spread elements to the West Coast. And that blend is really cool. They've gone away from the West Coast principles, away from some of the traditional values of NFL football, offensive football, which you still need. Run, run action, pocket movement, screen game, traditional screen game. A lot of these things that are staples of good offense, you're not seeing that. You're seeing more of these spread elements. And I think that hurts a person like Fields because Fields, you need, again, let's go back to the Herbert conversation, you need to maximize his talent. And the way you maximize his talent is let the play go longer. Let him use his athleticism, design rollouts, design boots, creative ways of getting free plays, free offensive plays, free completions. I'm not seeing a lot of that.

Now, again, I'm not studying the Bears either. So I think I might be 80% right here. I'm definitely not 100% right. But what I've seen is it looks different than the offense he was supposedly in charge of in Kansas City. And I think that's going to hurt a field. Fields typically holds the ball too long. It was the knock coming

out. We'll get back to, let's go back to pre-draft stuff, which nobody ever likes to do, but let's actually go back to pre-draft concerns. Pre-draft concerns for Fields, again, love the kid. Love him. But, as we

talked when he was in my office before the draft talking, I said, you hold the ball too long. You're gonna have to process quick. You're, it's not an intellectual thing. It's a waiting for something better to happen thing. I'm like the biggest mistake I made. And one of my regrets and a lot of us average NFL quarterbacks make is that we don't take

the cheese. We don't take the thing right now. That's right in front of us. It's free. Uh, you got cheddar to the right. Take it. You got good to the cheese. We don't take the thing right now that's right in front of us. It's free. You got cheddar to the right. Take it. You got good to the middle. Take it.

You got Swiss. Are those routes there, though? Because the argument's been with Nagy that those routes. I have a hard time believing an NFL coach doesn't have, you know, always explain to me one, two, one, two guarantee. Three is guaranteed. One, two guarantee. The guarantee is always there unless you're an asshole.

It's always there, but they might be tight okay that's the difference and that was the numbers tell you these were incredibly tight throws throughout that game for fields and those are good numbers and i'm glad those numbers are out there because there's a difference between a between gouda like i was telling i'm just using the cheese knowledge is a quarterback way of saying the free stuff the easy stuff sometimes it's wide open, right? It's zone coverage. It's the back. It's a crossing route.

There's no way within four or five yards of him throwing the ball and letting it be an athlete. Then there's times where it's a shallow cross and the defender's coming down. They're cutting it from the safety position, and you can see that happening. You're like, oh, my gosh, I got to throw this right here. Otherwise, it's going to be incomplete. That's still a freebie in the NFL. That's why we talk about high school open, college open, NFL open. There's just different definitions of what open is.

And I think Fields is still looking for the college open throw. And because he's looking for the college open throw, he thinks every throw is hard because they're all NFL throws. And that's going to take time. I couldn't agree with you more, only on, like, when I say, I've used this exercise before, when I have my blink test

of thinking of different offenses, I can see immediately what I think of. And whenever I do blink test Ohio State, I'd see that seam post route. It's not the far, it's that seam, the slot guy, maybe it's not even the seam. So it's a slot receiver to the right side running a post over the's not the far. It's that seam. The slot guy. Maybe it's not even the seam. So it's a slot receiver to the right side running a post over the middle to the left.

And they find a way to get you one-on-one. The safety comes down on the other routes. And that throw is wide open to the side. And all you're throwing is a pop-up that way. And it's awesome because all those receivers are terrific. And look, when Stroud is rolling, I'll be like, oh, there's that throw again. that day offense where finally they get you. They get you with that so many times. So really interesting thing you bring up. It's part of this conversation. I won't take too long on it.

I would also, again, a scout doesn't understand how good a college offense is. A GM head coach does. When I'm evaluating these college quarterbacks, I actually knock them a little bit if I highly respect their play caller. Ryan Day is one of the best play callers in all football. He's a genius with how he gets guys open. So you start looking at fields throwing to wide open guys. That's why the Clemson game was so impressive because it was the first time I had seen Justin make these big boy throws where they weren't always wide open. He actually stuck them in there. He actually did pretty good against Alabama except for a handful of plays because it was contested plays and he really had to throw NFL-type throws in that game.

But I sit there on my notes. You know me. I studied for the on my notes, and you know me, I studied for the pre-draft, and I grade these guys, and on my notes, I'm like, eh, good throw, nice talent, wide open. Like, that's not going to happen

all the time. That kind of, that plus mark goes to Ryan Day, not Justin Fields. So, I'll now go from Fields to Zach Wilson. Let's go back to pre-draft. Everybody, the narrative became generational talent, Aaron Rodgers 2.0,

this kid's incredible, let's show him going to his left and making some throw to his right, which, by the way, my 17-year-old high school quarterback did the day after just to prove the narrative of that stupid throw wrong. He flipped his hips. He wasn't off platform. Sam Darnold does 10 times harder playing a game in the NFL, but that narrative got started and you couldn't stop it. And here's what I'm

seeing on film. I'm seeing the uber talented. I'm seeing the off platform stuff. I'm seeing the wild arm talent. I'm seeing them drop down angles and I'm seeing wide open receivers that he doesn't see right in front of them. And I'm seeing a great play caller at BYU run, run action, passing game, trick plays, misdirection. I'm seeing them dial up all plays where there are wide open people and he's jacking the ball waiting for something better to happen because he loves being a flashy, sizzly, playmaker quarterback. And he won't just do the boring stuff well. And I'm saying it.

And I'm getting killed because the scouts are saying, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's reading it perfect. We've talked to the coaches. He's dialed it. Like, that's interesting because I'm watching these 10 concepts. They run over and over. I know these concepts like the back of my hand. In fact, I could probably teach him better than most people out there. And I know who the number one is. And I know who the number two is. And I

know what the progression is. I know what his feet are supposed to be doing and he's not doing it. And that's exactly what you're seeing with the jets. You're seeing his Achilles heel pop up early, which is he waits for something bigger and better to happen. He works everything down instead of working it up. I love the kid. I think the kid's going to be good if they have these hard conversations with him in the building and say, listen, here's what you did at BYU. It got you some trouble.

You also did some cool stuff. In the NFL, it's going to mainly get you in trouble. And let's watch this guy, number 12, who's 63 years old and 10 times the player you are. And let's watch him work things. Same concept. What I would do is I'd take the Bucs running a concept. In fact, I'd go back to the Patriots. I'd pick out a Patriots concept, same concept we're running here with the Jets, and I'd match it against the same coverage. And I'd watch Tom Brady throw it four yards, six yards, three yards, two yards, six yards, eight yards.

And then I'd show you turning down the six, four, three, two, eight. Be like, you have to be an idiot to not try to do it like Tom Brady. I wish somebody would have done that with me. Somebody would have done that with me. Somebody would have done that with me. Not that dumb. I would have figured out really quick, oh, it's okay to take the flat route with the strong safety driving on it at four yards. We're only going to get a three-yard gain.

Yep, on first down, that's perfectly fine. I don't need to wait for that slant to come behind or that dig to come behind like I did in college. Nope. Get the ball out of your hand. Play the long game. If he learns that, he's going to be great. Guess what?

If he doesn't learn that and you still see the bouncing around and the eyes doing this, Mac Jones' eyes, boom, boom, boom. Zach Wilson's eyes, he's like a teenage boy that I coach with ADHD.

Like, they're looking everywhere. If that doesn't get fixed bust just looking everywhere not just next team bust because you're not talented enough there's nobody talented enough to play that way patrick mahomes learning from alex smith the biggest thing i saw when he took over the reins wasn't the flash and sizzle it was the discipline of playing the position like alex played it because alex had to play it that way. And, holy crap, I'm Patrick Mahomes in Superman.

When it doesn't work, I can go do some other stuff. I feel like the play-calling debate happens because of really, the play-calling debate comes down to two things. Have I given up on the coach yet or the quarterback yet? Alright? Seriously. And I'm talking media and fans. Same deal.

Like, if you're out on the coach, then it's always play calling. If it's a newer coach and you're sick of watching the quarterback be on coordinator number three, that's when you can finally stop blaming the play calling and you start blaming the player. When you have hope, you're always going to blame the head coach. And when I look at the Jets situation, Michael Fleur

is the OC. He's calling plays for the first time since 2013 when he was at Davidson. So it's the, as you just said, it's the first time this guy's calling plays. He was talking about sidelines, being up top. He's on the sidelines now. What is the difference between, because I think play calling is something most of us don't understand. And it's an easy thing to blame.

I don't really do it because I didn't play the position. And I just, honestly, my reaction to people complaining about it is like, I'll be less likely because I'm pretty sure they don't know what they're talking about either, even if it's a valid complaint. Even if it's valid, I'm like, I don't know. Do you really know what you're talking about? So let's examine this because if anybody's an OC, you've been thinking about this moment your whole life.

You've been watching other guys call plays. You're like, oh man, if I did it, this would not work. What actually changes when that shit is real? Give me an example of good and bad when you're talking play calling in game with somebody who may have the greatest concepts, whiteboard and all that stuff. It's like, yeah, okay, now we're in it though, man.

We're in it and we need this third down conversion. The experience can't be faked. It can't be. Yeah, I just got to talk to Rich Eisen this morning about the same thing. It's been something that I've been trying to find the easiest way to explain it forever. Here's where I've settled.

Because people listening are going to be in really good marriages. People are going to be in really bad marriages. Let's just say relationships. It doesn't even have to be a marriage. When you're in a great relationship, you finish each other's sentences, but it's not rude. You look, something happens and you both see it through the same lens. You find joy in the same things. You hurt at the same moments when you're in a bad relationship. It's the opposite,

right? It's, I see it this way. You see it that way. You finished my sentence, but you're wrong and you're interrupting me and it's pissing me off. I'm sad about something. You're happy about it.

Like that doesn't make a sense. That's a bad relationship. By the way, if you're in one of those, get, get out of it. Play calling and make sense. That's a bad relationship. By the way, if you're in one of those, get out of it. Play calling and quarterbacking are exactly like that.

I've been in both. I wasn't... When Mike Holmgren... When I was out, a play would happen. And in my mind, I'm like, we got to do this. Guess what happened in my ear? Exactly what I was thinking.

And it was such an awesome way to play the position. I would miss something, right? Miss a read, throws a little off target. Instead of giving up on you, he comes right back to you. Because he's playing the position through you. Sean Payton, Drew Brees, I think are the best of all time. It's that simpatico relationship. They think each other's thoughts. They have the same taste in food. They don't,

but I'm saying that's the carryover into the game. Sean plays the position through Drew Brees. Drew Brees is expecting a call and he's getting it from Sean Payton. That's play calling. The quarterback and the play caller have to see life through the same lens. They have to see the game. They have to think each other's thoughts. I talked to my quarterback this. He's 18 now. And I'm like, I don't know how to say this, but you have to read my mind.

And he's 87% on the year. He has more touchdowns than incompletions because he's reading my mind. Literally, I call a play and I'm like, this is why I'm calling. I can't talk to you. I don't have the microphone in high school. Like you have to, this preparation, you have to remember all those lonely times we talked and all the meetings and all the things on the field. And then right now in real time, you have to see the field the way I'm seeing it.

And he does. And we get completions. We get touchdowns. When it's not right, the play caller calls a play and the quarterback goes, what the hell is that? We didn't even talk about this. Like, why is that coming up? This is a man beater and all we're getting is zone.

Or why is he calling play action on third and seven when we're not running the ball? I got to turn my back to the defense when they're just going to drop deep and not respect the play action? Or why is he calling it for that guy? That guy dropped four balls in practice this week. Why would we trust him here?

And it's this negative thought that happens when the play caller and quarterback are on the same page. Now, I think maybe a little more specific what you're getting is how can a play caller help a young quarterback that doesn't have that relationship yet? They haven't gone to dinner enough. They haven't had conversations. They don't think each other's thoughts. Well, then the play caller's job is to, I'm going to make you trust me. I'm going to make your job easier on Sunday than it is Wednesday through Saturday. And therefore what you're going to do is you're going to admire me so much for

making your job easy. We're going to start thinking the same thoughts. And I remember when Matthew took over in Seattle before I, before I did, when he just got traded from, uh, Green Bay, Mike would get so frustrated and he would yell at me. And it's these famous stories. We just had Hutch's Hall of Fame in Seattle in Canton and talking about the Seattle days. And one of the funny things that came up that night was how Holmgren would get so mad at Matthew,

but I would get blamed for it because I was the backup at the time. And I just get my butt reamed on the sidelines for anything bad Matthew did those first few games but the common theme was why can't he read my mind like why can't he just see it the way I see it I'm trying to make his life easy and you're making your and Matt's making his life hard Trent get him to understand that I'm trying to make his life easy because that's what a great play caller does is he makes the quarterbacks life easier now the quarterback

goes oh wow his way is way better than my way his way got me 24 of 31 for 282 and three tuds and an endorsement deal like his way is pretty good and i think that's what these college guys are struggling with is they go from these college coaches that are excellent by the way fantastic and they make their lives great and they go to the NFL and they don't feel like this guy's making their life great but then the play callers saying wait a second I'm trying to make your life great you're just not understanding that that far is open like I'm trying to get a guy this far open and if you just throw him the ball he's probably gonna break the tackle and get you 18 but you gotta trust that that far is open. Like, I'm trying to get a guy this far open. And if you just throw him the ball, he's probably going to break the tackle

and get you 18. But you got to trust that that's open in the NFL. And that's that give and take that happens. One foot. You're saying one foot of space. One foot of space is wide open. Wide open. I'm just trying to help the listeners here

as you're holding up your hands. Oh, thank you. Yeah, that's right. We're not on camera. I thank you yeah that's right yeah yeah you don't oh we're not we're not on camera i thought you were we are i thought you're rocking the double tank just to get all the ladies fired up about the show and increase ratings i don't know if this is going to increase ratings although i was tempted to take my shirt off when tyson fury showed up in his boxers but he's got about i don't know 40 pounds 40 pounds on me, I think. So, uh, that's a little out of my weight class.

I have one last thing. I had a bunch of things, but I can save them because we're talking to you so much this year. Uh, because this has been awesome. I have a little bit more of a window into who Brady is now. Um, just because of some relationships that I have,

he was always somebody that was very protective of people getting close. I think he's opened up a lot, and I think it's kind of getting out of that Belichick shell. We're starting to see a side of him that you're like, oh, maybe he always wanted to do some of this stuff. And I think the buy-in from him with Belichick and the Patriot Way was so intense

the first 10 plus years of his career that he wasn't even thinking this could be an option. And he's winning every storyline. And i was talking to somebody about it and they were like look you can think you can think he's competitive and stuff but like if you don't really know his deal this guy truly is one of the all-time like let's fucking go guys who was out for blood and like if you don't think especially after a Rams loss, and I didn't think he wanted to like tie the Pats on a Sunday night in Foxborough, but they were basically explaining to me,

and you know, Tom, far better than I do, that like he would love to almost humiliate everyone because of how it ended. He's just never going to say anything like that, but he's going to want to play that way. Is that a fair assessment? Heck yeah. I can't add a whole lot to it,

and I've talked too much anyways. Michael Jordan will go down as the greatest competitor of all time. We've talked about it forever. Everybody talked about it, and it's all true. I've played gin with Michael and watched him turn over a table after he gets smoked in gin.

And it's all real. All the stories are real. He beat me one time in golf and I whooped his tail most of the time. We're walking down the 14th fairway at Edgewood and he's got me just ripping you this day. And I can hear it and it's relentless and he's pushing every button and the guy's being like one out of ten times and

he's just shredding me and not letting it go and the whole walk down down that hill around the lake to the green and I'm just I'm talking to my caddy and it's like I want to kick his ass but i kind of respect it too like that tom is everything michael what was is and then some would argue maybe a

little more because how so he's the quiet assassin because he's gonna humiliate you by not talking the trash to you like he makes it worse, and I think what you'll see, it's Sunday night, right? It's the NBC game? Yeah. I think what you'll see if the Bucs get their way is a smirk.

Post-game, he'll pour perfume on them instead of talking trash. He'll make it worse by being gracious and by not talking this smack because he knows that's one more level of humiliation is when you step on them and then you kind of just say how good they are too.

Like love on them as you're destroying them. I think that would be his mentality. That'd be the only thing i'd add to what you said what do you have coming up on your podcast uh we had sanchez yesterday he's hilarious have you had sanchez on yours you know he's a tough book um get him he is he's a great guy i mean and there's no one that's hung out with him that doesn't like him and he's transparent about the time in new y. The USC stuff's fantastic. We're doing a lot of

high school stuff, not because people care about high school, but it tells the story of who they are and how they grew up and their core values. We have a lot of listeners that are parents of football players and coaches and kids, so we're trying to teach them lessons too. So that stuff is fantastic. He's

amazing. Ryan Leaf tomorrow. I had Steve Young on Sunday night. We went for an hour and 15 minutes. I might have said 30 words. I love talking to Steve Young because there's always a moment in there he'll tell me something

I wasn't thinking about. All my buddies have texted me and just said that they love the Aikman one, the Favre one they raved about. But the young one, they're just, they can't get enough of it. And I think one of the things having the TV guys on especially,

and I'm going to start having you guys on. So talk to Eisen about him at Boomer on, or if you want, and let you guys talk about your perspective of the quarterback. Right. And this is maybe different for you because you do the pod,

but a lot of TV guys don't get to complete their thoughts. They don't get to really say what they want to say. They got to condense a 10 minute message into two minutes. And I think Hasselbeck will be great here to let them team up. Like here's one of my typical pod questions. Let's talk about your recruiting process. go anywhere you want to go we're not in a rush and just to hear them tell these stories and for far to Aikman Aikman had the best vignette Aikman goes Trent I first started the University of Oklahoma I have no idea the receivers supposed to be I have no idea I'm just literally dropping back and throwing it up for grabs he admits that and he gets into the why and blah blah blah and he talks about jamil holloway taking over he's like i look at jamil holloway i'm like i'm not gonna do that this guy's way better than

me i'm getting out of here i mean when has he ever had a chance to tell those stories and i love that part of the acheman deal because it's just a nice reminder where you go all right everybody i mean generationally now as we get older there's just so many people you remind them and be like no no this is this is what that guy was going to go to oklahoma and run the triple option hello famer troy acheman and you're like how why did anyone ever think that that was going to work out and then on top of it holloway's one of the most impressive option quarterbacks we've ever seen in our lives. And you get Kurt Warner was interesting. I'll be done after that.

I'm not trying to pump my pod. But Kurt Warner was great because Kurt lives in a world at NFL Network where you get the pregame show, the postgame show, and you get these, all right, Kurt, it's your turn to talk about topic A, and you got two and a half minutes. And he gives you a lot of two and a half minutes. Well, then I just teed him up and said,

you have 15 minutes, go. And he gives you a lot of two and a half minutes. Well, then I just teed him up and said, you have 15 minutes, go. And he got deep on some stuff and taught the game, like taught quarterbacking and leadership and resilience and where all, like the story, the movie that's coming out, which he obviously wanted to promote, but he kind of gave the backstory to how the movie even happens. And that's what out, which he obviously wanted to promote, but he kind of gave the backstory

to how the movie even happens. Yeah. And that's what I'm enjoying about it is you get the long-winded answer and I become a much better listener. I just sit there and listen and it's fantastic. The number one skill of any talk show host

is knowing when to not talk. Yeah. It's a hard thing to develop. Usually when you're younger, I knew I didn't want to shut up I wanted to prove how smart I was all the time and then once you learn to listen and it's a Tirico thing, Tirico's the best

listener of anyone you're ever going to work with and so yeah check it out that is Trent Dilfer's The X's and O's of Trent Dilfer, Steve Young episode, John Lynch was on it, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, the Brett Favre one everybody loves.

So, all right, we'll talk to you in a couple weeks, man. Thank you. Thanks, brother. See you. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up?

I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Okay, a couple midweek life advices for you. Lifeadvice rr at gmail dot com.

Okay, we had a... Remember the guy that was... He wanted to know if he was a scumbag and we said no because he was basically hanging out with this girl who had a boyfriend long distance but it was over the summer and then we basically said the only way to get this, this girl back is to ignore her. Um, because she doesn't, she wanted to like still have her boyfriend back on campus. And, but yet she didn't want to get blown off by the guy emailing. He also said he liked his chances unless there was a gun. He has a followup. So I'm going to allow this to happen. He goes, first of all, I want to thank thank you for the advice i also too want to give a quick response to the weapon situation and what i view my limitations are when it comes to combat this was such a great opening line that i that second part of that second sentence is so good i'm going to read it one more time and it's seriousness and directness and to the point that i was like all right i don't even care what the rest of the

email says i just love this sentence so much quote again i just wanted to give a quick response to the weapon situation what i view as my limitations are, what I view my limitations are when it comes to combat. End quote. The whole weapon situation is tricky, I think, because it also depends on who is wielding the weapon. I just want to add that I'm 6'2", 210, a varsity athlete, so still in pretty good shape. If any weapon with decent length were to be drawn, I would honestly probably just run away unless the guy looked like a complete chump and had a three inch blade or something. Uh, that is probably my limit.

Three inches. A machete would make me run. Hopefully the person isn't good at throwing it or faster than me. Cause that would suck. I would also, uh, just want to say respect to Kyle for getting a bat to defend himself and his roommate.

That's a good friendship move and probably went a little under the radar, but that shows great honor in class, a modern day night. Um, so shout out to Kyle as, as everybody has learned throughout this process, Kyle is the real hero, uh, that we all need. But, um, this guy just broke it down. It's like, look over three inches. I'm out of there. So Kyle, what did you, what did you think about that part? I mean, it just leaves me asking what are his skills with a bow staff? I just got real Napoleon Dynamite summer vibes. I mean, I'm glad that he thought it out and it's exactly what I thought he would say. It's like, yeah, you know, large, large pointy weapons probably, probably would take him down

a notch in the confidence department. So I think he's right. And I think with that philosophy, he'll live a long time. I've never been afraid of a bo staff. I'm going to go ahead and tell you that right now. Because if you avoid the first blow, the guy is so exposed. You just get it. You got to bait him into making the first move. And it's like, if you're going to have a bo staff and be Floyd Mayweather with it, you don't see that very often. Although I got to admit, I don't know that I've ever seen anybody fight with a long stick for a real fight. But if you're going to come out with that and

start spinning it around like a fucking talent show in high school, I'm letting you make your first strike. I'd like to think with something that size, I'd be able to dodge it. And then once you're exposed because your arms are extended after the first strike that missed, it should be game over. You should be able to get a couple good shots in there that are wide open. I would say there's... I like where he's going three inches above, but then I think there's another length where it's game on again. Kyle?

What if it was John Heater with the bo staff? Well, we interviewed Heater live in person, and he didn't like me very much. Heater could have a fucking machine gun, and I don't he didn't like me very much so i heater could have a fucking machine gun and i don't think i'd be scared not to say anybody should be ducking any machine guns but you get my point um i don't know three inches i mean do you think kyle do you think at four inches you would take your shirt off and kind of like cover up your your strong hand and then you're off hand stand sideways right that's the other one right yourself uh that's the hit less to hit right isn't

that the isn't that what everybody says who's never been in a night fight that's what you hear that's what you see in the videos yeah turn sideways that'll solve it uh all right so i just knew there was a lot of people out there wondering he didn't't mention anything about the curl at all, which was great. And you know what? You don't have to email us again, man. We're probably done with this. Here's the problem with the specific weapons, though. It's like, you know, the bow staff, nunchucks, like throwing stars.

The problem is if the chances are if somebody has those in a fight, they know how to use them. Like, you don't just have that if you don't have experience using like a bow staff or any of this. Like, who just carries around nunchucks? That guy probably has used it before. Throwing stars. Again, you don't just carry those around. So while they're low on my fear radar, I have a feeling the person using it knows how to use it. I don't know, dude.

Any teenager that's ever been to a flea market has found the throwing stars. I can promise you that. Yeah, but they're usually on a display case in the room. They don't carry them around. I had a guy who had daggers. My friend Brian loved daggers, but he's never used a dagger. They're just on display in his room. He doesn't know how to actually use a knife.

There's a certain age where you should stop having martial arts equipment hanging from your bedroom. I don't know, dude. Like a good katana? That's kind of badass. Maybe in the man cave in the basement? I don't know. So if you had a nice samurai sword, you would hang

it in your basement now, Suri? I mean, if I had a samurai sword, I wouldn't use it. What else could I do but display it? Like, am I going to be in the backyard cutting fruit? No. That's why, you know, The Office has so many brilliant things that they did. And it's just a

brilliant show for a bunch of different reasons, okay? But when they had Gabe throw the party and he had a bunch of different katanas displayed and he had like the stand for them. So I think they're like three different sizes. Yeah, I just, I love that part of whatever the TV process is when you're on a show and you go okay who's gabe and then you just start mapping it all out and then somebody would in the room would go okay with his bedroom he definitely has stuff from japan like he ordered the swords but he also gabe as you know part of his backstories he lived in japan for a little while so it felt a little

bit more legit i just think that if you're 40 no offense to the guys that are 40 or plus but i don't know i just i don't know how i think there's a part whatever it is there's a certain age where it's just no longer cool to have japanese japanese weaponry accurate that's fair kyle do you have anything you probably you know what don't even answer that because i don't like i don't want to cram in anybody yeah right don't answer okay okay all right uh here we go this one's great it's different they sent me text messages and everything six foot 190 yoga guy he thinks he might be the only guy in the yoga i don't believe that but we don't have a lot of guys claiming it um i keep thinking about joining Richard Jefferson's place in Hermosa

just to loosen up these hips. I think I'm getting close. Anyway, I walked Venice Beach today, by the way, unrelated to anything we're doing about right now, but I just had a couple hours, a little free time. I was just like, I'm going to go up there and walk around. And I was like, oh, this is why I don't come up here that much. But it is.

It seems too touristy for you. It's just too much of a hot spot yeah but it isn't i mean we've had bad weather out here the last couple days which is you know unheard of um and bad weather out here is like oh wait is that a cloud but it's been yeah it's been by by the standards for la bad weather here kyle you'd agree with that right i don't know what it's like inland though sometimes it's different yeah it's it's been gray. I don't like Venice either. So, our guy recently moved to Denver from New York City.

Man, the number of people moving to Denver from New York City, if they built a commuter rail that took a full day, they would actually still do well. All right, like everyone in the pandemic. Oh, there he goes. Yeah, he followed it up. On a ski trip with four good friends from college. Good Midwestern school here. My friend 65225 declared out of nowhere that he can dunk. Oh, apparently he also listens to the podcast. Because so many of you guys are calling out people in these life advice. And like either you know they're going to listen and that's some weird tactic or you're forgetting how big the show is, which was cool. All right.

to listen and that's some weird tactic or you're forgetting how big the show is, which was cool. All right. So for the next four hours over beers, we proceeded to debate whether or not he could dunk. The other three of us firmly don't believe that he can. A few important things to note from that discussion. He claims he was slamming all the time in college the guy that could dunk.

So this is, we're talking about a Strohmeyer Swift just walking around campus. We asked for any witness that he could text call to confirm a visual sighting of one of these dunks best he could offer us was he was a far uh was a far out fringe guy who didn't respond to his text or call he said multiple times quote we would not understand because we're not dunkers i love that how high was he when he said that? He then proceeded to show us how high he could jump. Parentheses was not high,

but more claiming his massive height and wingspan doesn't require major hops. Look, if you're 6'5", and you've got a 6'9 wingspan, which is usually not the math on white guys, and the pictures that we have of this guy, he's white. The picture that I have of him, he doesn't look like a dunker. I'm telling you right now. That would be the best way to describe this guy. Aspiring doorman. Okay.

So in Vail at 1 a.m. Obviously no basketball courts. Yep. Been there. So we agreed he'd dunk when we got back to Denver. However, since then, every time we try to set up the dunk, he has a new injury, shoulder, leg. You get the picture, see the text below.

He's a great guy, but how do we break it to our friend that he can't dunk? Well, apparently he's also listening to this the entire time. So let's go over some of the text. All right, here's one. I'll put $100 that by June 1, there will be a video of me dunking anyone who wants in on the bet. So apparently he's giving himself almost a year, 10 months. And then the other guy says, how many tries?

And he said, one try, LOL. That was met with a ha-ha approval by somebody else in the text thread. And then they said, deal. And then he said, anyone want to get wasted tonight?

Feeling like tuning it up. That was just on the thread. And then followed up with might dunk. Who knows? And then one other guy on the thread said, dude, let's go on the thread. And then followed up with might dunk. Who knows? And then one other guy on the thread said, dude, let's go to the court. And then we got a, this is from the dunker, the alleged dunker. He said, quote, my shoulder is still a little tender.

Might have to wait a couple weeks. There's a lot, but there's also a very convenient i i would say the efficient route would be he can't dunk if he wanted to dunk he would have dunked he wouldn't say there'll be a video by next june there wouldn't be oh my shoulder's still bummed out i mean he's the one telling you he doesn't need that much i love the idea of him being hammered and veil at 1 a.m jumping in some condo you guys all rented being like, see, like no ball, nothing. And just jumping in a living room on wall to wall carpet going, you guys are idiots. Look at me, look how high I get up. And you guys are like, you're not even jumping that high. So we all know

what's going on. He can't dump it because if he could, he would have done it already. Um, does it mean he could have at some point, here's the thing, if he's this close of a friend to the point where you all live in the same area and you're all getting a place together in Vail and none of you have ever seen him dunk and you're at this stage of your friendship where you'd invited him to this kind of thing, then maybe it's even more absurd. Now, I'll try to cover it from all angles because I've done something like this. I used to round up some of my lifting numbers just to set a goal in case I ever got called out. It actually motivated me and worked. So if somebody said like, hey, and then I actually turned a little bit older and you're like, why would you round this stuff up? That's like when

Billy Football did it to me on part of my take and I knew immediately he was lying because I was like, I know exactly what you're doing. You sit around and round it up and then use two and a half in your max. None of that makes any sense. Like, you just got caught lying three different times. I know because if somebody asked me like, hey, what are you doing for this? Which again, this is all loser talk, but whatever. I was asking you these questions besides part of my take guys.

Yeah, on the street walking down Venice Beach, did you just ask me like, hey, what are you benched dude? No, it was younger, but you know, I'd get asked by the steroid guys because they'd be like hey what are you doing and i'd be like oh well i'm around this and i might i might like in my head i wasn't doing it because i wanted to think i was cool i was doing it in some fucked up way of motivating myself to be like well i better make sure i get close to that because I don't want to be a liar. So it was weird. I wasn't doing it to lie to impress anybody. I was doing it to motivate

myself. So the only thing I can come up with here again, and then I turned 30 and probably was like, this is fucking stupid. Why would you do this? Um, what I would say is that maybe this guy's always wanted to dunk and he's really close and he decided after a bunch of drinks, the best way to get to that goal was to put himself on the line is to really put the pressure on him. But it's very clear he can't if he doesn't. Right. What else is there to add to this? Go ahead. There's nothing.

It's not like a situation where you say you can dunk and it's like, give me a year and I'll get you a video of me dunking that's that's incorrect he cannot dunk he may have gotten rim at some point he's maybe he's one of those guys that's dunked a tennis ball at some point and thinks he can dunk but he's never actually in game dunk he might have actually never even dunk with actual basketball so this guy is totally full of shit but I love the fact

that he calls people non dunkers and like holds it over their heads Kyle no I mean all signs that he calls people non-dunkers and holds that over their heads. Kyle? No, I mean, all signs point to Noah. He would have been way better off just saying I used to dunk all over everybody and leaving it there. Yeah, it just seems like

Mulan when all the guys were peeing and she wouldn't go to the bathroom because she's not a guy. It seems like he's keeping up the appearance. I don't know. I would have just not, um, took it to this level. Cause now, like now everybody's waiting for you to fail. It's like, not even like people are like, yeah, right. You used to dunk. Now people are like, I don't think you could ever dunk and you definitely can't dunk now. And we're going to just keep making you uncomfortable until you fail at

this in front of us. So strange. What's confusing, though, is that like these guys who are questioning him, they're his friend and they've never played basketball with him. They don't like I feel like if most of the people I know, I have some idea of what their athletic ability is or I've played a sport with them. This is like a total mystery. It's just like some six five friend

that they've never seen on a basketball court. It's wild to me. There's there's just no way. I mean, there's just no way. Yeah, I mean, you're right. You're right. Like, who's learning about each other's sporting accomplishments in their late 20s and 30s if you've all been friends since college?

And he was apparently the dunker in college, too. That was like his nickname. This doesn't add up at all. I guarantee he didn't think he was going to get called out for it. was like i could dunk and he didn't think anyone's gonna be like okay sure prove it and now he's like well shit now all right give me a year and i'll get those like dunk shoes that everybody got off east bay back in the day and see if i could work this thing out i know i i regret not putting more effort into being a dunker because i unlocked it all at such a later stage in life that then once i was like i think i can throw one down and threw it down and then was like holy shit i'm taking a video of this and i did send to my

friends and they were like what the fuck are you on and i was like built different bro just built different so i don't know what to tell you you're on to something though about being able to look at somebody and tell whether they could dunk or not but i'm actually confused kyle because you're tall you're six four right six three yeah six three and you're like six two right well i went back i was so distraught about this height uh discrepancy went back and looked at some physicals and i was six one and three quarter at one point and i just was like all right cool i'm six two i'm not anymore yeah i there's i think there's a few different reasons but i'm not i'm not gonna worry about it anymore well i'm 5' 5'10", so I've never...

I mean, I'm luckily... I think I touched rim once at my athletic peak, but Kyle, I don't know. Wildcard, I feel like you might be able to dunk. I could touch it, and I maybe even grabbed it once in my life, but I have got the weakest ankles. I get it from my dad,

dude. Every summer, I would be out of commission for a week or two on the basketball court, just rolling it. The pops, I get it from my dad, dude. Every summer, I would be out of commission for a week or two on the basketball court, just rolling it like the pops. I hear it in my head. I get nauseous when I think about it. I mean, multiple times a year, I would hurt myself on the basketball court to where it was just like, my friends would be like,

please don't. Please don't. Because then we're going to have to scrape you off the ground and whatever. So it's just I have terrible ankles and I think it'll be that way forever. I don't see you as a dunker. I think your legs are a certain way. I just looked at your legs

and I go, nope. I would never parade as one though. That's fine. Yeah, I'm not saying that you are. This is not the Kyle call-out thing. I'm just using my scouting eye. What do you think about mark titus he says he can still dunk i haven't seen it he did dunk in a video not that long ago i mean titus is big dude i know and he's not that old titus is like 10 years younger than me more than 10 years younger than me so he should still

be able to dunk and he's a big guy uh so there is video of it he dunked on some video that i saw unless the video is really old and they just re-ran it but there's no reason why he shouldn't be dunking still he's not 50 he's like closer to 30 right how old is titus i think he's like 34 35 yeah give me a point if he's not dunking now and was throwing it down when he was in college that's on him like he's just letting his body go that's what you want to do bro go ahead but you're gonna regret it i'm so happy this is out there thank you for that i'm still dumb enough to be like i don't know that i peaked yet it's like yeah you can't dribble anymore asshole so you you're not any good anymore and i'll be like yeah but if i just i don't know all right you know what i don't think

we need to do anything else on this i think we're good i think we got a cover today that was a lot on just one guy but um yeah the easiest answer right the solution is usually the easiest thing and it's that if you could dunk you would have done it by now. All right, enjoy. We have a great show coming up for you on Friday. And we're also going to tape soon with the WeWork Cult of We authors, both of them. That book was awesome. So I'm looking forward to that.

And it looks like we got Julian Edelman on Friday, previewed Little Pats and Brady's return, and also Brock Huard, who's been just terrific on college football on the call and just in general on his radio show so uh good rest of the week coming for you thanks as always to kyle and steve please subscribe rate review talk to you friday Thank you. you