The Ryen Russillo Podcast - UFC Is Back! With Jon Anik | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: May 12, 2020

Russillo is joined by his old friend and UFC commentator Jon Anik to discuss the logistics of putting together a live television event today; UFC 249 results, including Greg Hardy vs. Yorgan De Castro, Francis Ngannou vs. Jairzinho Rozenstruik, and Tony Ferguson vs. Justin Gaethje; Conor McGregor’s post-fight comments; and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan rossillo podcast on the ringer podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like sports the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. What was unexpected from the UFC? I don't know that the Gaethje win was that unexpected. I don't think so. And we're going to talk with John Anik about that, the voice of the UFC with Joe Rogan and Daniel Cormier. He's going to join us, a guy I've known for a really long time,

one of my first jobs. His first job on the air was being co-host with me, which, I don't know, we could probably do a longer version of that podcast some other time. We're not going to do it today though. Get a teammate like John Anik who can help you navigate the unexpected talk to a State Farm agent today. So that's the plan. John Anik on UFC 249, even a little Joe Rogan stuff. Because I think Anik who sat next to Rogan now for years, he's never been on Rogan's podcast, which everybody asks to be on. I will not ask to be on it um i'm not sure i'm interesting enough for joe rogan so uh i do know this though this is kind of a rogan type segue though what's up with the ufos kyle where are you right now

with space travel level of interest scale of one to ten kyle uh it's been 10 for a while now okay i gotta get the tame 10 though you know i'm not like going down rabbit holes but i'm all the way there all right but is that about ufos or is that just i mean if we send some astronauts up into space check on some equipment you know just circle around the moon real quick maybe get a different angle some different pictures your level of interest in that is is where i mean i just i've been always of the mind it's just too big and it's like yeah nobody has to prove anything to me because space is too big and like yeah so what if they're not in our little seeable region they're just they're out there no doubt

but like it's probably not going to be proven to me i get it yeah um back in the 80s, when any kind of shuttle took off, that was a big deal. That was prime elementary school. Hey, let's get these kids to watch a space launch. And it felt like the world, everybody would turn it on still. It felt like missions, even though the moon landings had stopped, these kinds of missions were a big deal. And then when the Challenger disaster happened, that was January 28th, 86. I'll never forget because it was one of the worst adult moments I'd ever been around. I'll never forget it, how bad it was. We were loud at lunch. And I've told the story once before on the radio show, but we were elementary kids. We were up to sixth grade. So we're talking 10, 11, 12. And we were really loud at lunch because we were kids. And a couple of kids started getting loud. A couple of other kids started getting loud. And like kids, you all start doing the same stuff. We got yelled at for being loud. And then we were brought back into a room and this one teacher, she had her good moments.

She had her other moments. And this was one of those terrible moments where she actually was so upset that the challenger had crashed that she was like yelling at us in our classroom as if it was like our fault. And it definitely wasn't our fault. We had nothing to do with it. We were just a bunch of kids. And you have these moments when you're a really young kid and it's so memorable.

Like you can remember it so perfectly. Where you go, I know exactly where I was sitting. I remember the angle. And she was sitting up on one of the desks. She had this dress. And she was really upset, but the Challenger had crashed and we were going to watch footage of it, I guess, after lunch. And we were just a bunch of kids that were really loud at lunch that day, which is something that happens at schools.

And she took out her, I don't know if it was anger, but her sadness about this disaster. She turned that into anger towards us. And we're like a bunch of kids looking around going, well, yeah, that sucks. But I'm 11. And today was square pizza day. So I don't have a ton to add. So yeah, it was this real weird scolding. And it's one of those moments, I'm sure, if you're a parent and you have a shitty day and then you yell at your kid and it isn't really about what the kid did and then you feel bad about it

or maybe you're a terrible parent and then you don't have that realization. And whatever. I'm sure you guys have gone through it as parents or being a child where you're like, yeah, this isn't really about me, is it? And you don't realize those things, but you can remember them and then realize later, oh, that was about something else that was going on.

But that was just such a weird, it was just the weirdest deal because we even at 11 started to kind of look at each other going like, yeah, this one's not really on us though. Sorry about the lunch thing, but I feel like this is a little displaced right now but we didn't use those words we didn't know what displaced meant the reason i bring this whole thing up and i'm not even sure there is a reason anymore but it just feels like space travel in general no one cares about and the ufo thing like we have footage now of stuff and i'm not the biggest believer in all this stuff like i always wonder why are always why are the weird things always happening in new mexico like why can't it be in chicago not even chicago why can't it be tampa why can't it be a city bigger than 12 people and i can understand if the government and everybody just went all in and said

yes these are the uf. This is what happens. And this is the footage that we have because some of the stuff looks really weird. These orbs that are flying by. But again, that's the backdrop from another vantage point, which it makes it look faster and weirder. But that's the way it would look, except we're used to looking outside of planes as opposed to one passing by. Although if you do see one going underneath you, it's kind of a cool little deal if not a little scary but i don't know i guess maybe it's the coronavirus kyle but i guess i just i feel like so does this mean that we're now confirming and people are all on the same page that these are actually ufos with some of this footage that was released from the pentagon and these fighter

pilots like freaking out about it and all these other things that we've watched and everybody just sort of like i don't know stay inside wear a mask i would have thought this ufo footage would have been a bigger deal yeah and and that's my point it appears people are just like yeah we're too busy right now we're too busy to acknowledge aliens in spaceships we just can't handle that and that's fair that's that's totally fair I'm just surprised anything from you on this reading the to the two things you hear it's either like some country had got this awesome toy that we're just we can't even understand or it's aliens so and it's also these are the worst days to ever be believing video even though it's like a Pentagon video it's just another layer it's like

this is the worst time to be like looking at a grainy video and be like wow that's something there yeah because every sasquatch video i mean the one that we've always seen that's a guy in a costume okay like you know um there was this one going on going around the other day that i saw it was like these little people these elves that like were only around native american dwellings and my whole counter to this for years has always been okay fine make the case about the man bear that roams the woods and lives hundreds of years make the case for the the what is it the chupacabra Chupacabra. Yeah.

That's just the goat sucker though. Right. Isn't that along the same family? Yeah. I think that thing's a real thing, right? Yeah. There's a lot of goats that have been taken out in South America, but I haven't researched it really well.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't call myself like an insider when it comes to the goat sucker, but there's all of these things and they all live on the fringes of, can't we just have like, couldn't a Sasquatch just say, all right, that taco place smells good. Like I'm going for it. I mean, if you really are this guy that's been avoiding being spotted really well,

like I don't believe in any of the lake monsters, by the way, like, yes. Are there weird, are there weird aquatic things way down deep that we have no understanding of? Yeah. But is it this dinosaur that just sort of pops in? But then again, some people will argue and say, Hey, alligators are just dinosaurs. They were just underwater

when everything went to hell. You're like, okay, that's, you know, I'll allow that. But yeah, the, we all have that conspiracy buddy guy that believes every single one of these things. Kyle, you actually, it sounds a little bit like you might be one of those guys. Is that fair? No, you know, I like whenever you brought this up a couple of times on the Bill Simmons pod, when you're just like with the whole MJ leaving for a year thing, you're like, it just, there's no way that there couldn't have been something that's like a little bit definitive by now. And so I like believing in all that stuff and I like all the movies about that stuff. But I'll see it to believe it,

but also believe it at the same time, if that makes sense. Yeah, I believe there's stuff that has happened that the government knows about that they just know, well, you know what? We don't want to tell everybody about this because people are just going to freak out.

So it's not so much withholding of information, which is part of it, the power part of it. But the other part of it is just, I don't know how the public will process this. So let's just back off. So then all of a sudden, when these Pentagon videos get released, and everybody just sort of scrolls through it and like, oh, it looks kind of weird. And why is the fighter pilot freaking out? Although the real conspiracy theorists out there would say these are fake to try to distract us from how tough day-to-day life is right now. Like, hey, show them a couple spaceship videos. Maybe people stay inside.

Like handing us the iPad. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Great job, Kyle. You know what? I'm not going to need anything from you the rest of the day because that was so strong. Before we get to Anik, during this time of social distancing, connecting with friends over a beer today looks pretty different as the original Light beer, Miller Lite has always been there to bring people together in real life through Miller Time. Miller Time is a moment for people to come together in real life to connect

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I've got seven of these just in case. Miller Lite, the original light beer. While you're home, enjoy a classic available for delivery today. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Like a lot of people that are listening to this podcast, I was excited. All day, Saturday countdown for UFC 249, Jacksonville, great town. John Anik, my man from back in the day now the voice of the USC on the call with Joe Rogan and Daniel Cormier and this was a little different so I we got to talk H.E. Ferguson

all of the guys right now in uh in that lightweight division going off on each other social media which is always worth it so I have a bunch of stuff that I want to get to but let's talk about this you've been with the UFC a long time you meaning you guys at the UFC were kind of the lead dogs and trying to figure out like how to get a product back out there for the masses, at least on television. So no fans, quarantine hotel. Take us through how different this week was. Well, certainly as different as it could possibly be. I mean, I'm sitting here with my wristband for my daily temperature screening, but it's still going on because I'm still in Jacksonville and we have two more shows on Wednesday and Saturday.

But we weren't even allowed to check into the hotel before we had received an antibody test and then a COVID-19 nasal swab that for most of us within 24 hours came back as negative. Obviously we had one of the first 24 athletes pop positive with two of his team members and they were isolated thereafter and taken off the premises.

And they're still being medically cared for by the UFC. But from a live production standpoint, we were dealing with all sorts of variables that we weren't used to. And a lot of it was adjusting on the fly. Even that three box that you saw early on with the cameras, our natural instincts was to look at each other and not stonewall our broadcast partners. So they had to tweak some things on the fly, but certainly our ducks feel pretty in a row for Wednesday. But big picture, man, as you know, from our conversations, logistically, from a safety and

security standpoint, we deal with things not on this level like COVID-19, but 40 plus weeks a year all over the world. There are times when we go to Brazil where maybe the landscape is safer than others. So I felt like if any team was well equipped to put on a live event in this climate, it was the UFC. So when Jacare tests positive, you know, two months ago, that may have shut down the entire event just because of the unknown and the fear, just like we had with the Utah Jazz, you know, now two months ago with that game against the Thunder. How was that handled once you knew one of the fighters and a couple of his team members had tested positive? So I was with my producers as it happened. So selfishly,

we're thinking live production standpoint, how much are these formats going to change? How many extra hours of work do I have tonight? But certainly we were wondering if any other athlete had it. And shortly thereafter, we got word because we're putting this show together that all the other athletes and camps had tested clean. You know, I got my result back and everything else. So, uh, it was just kind of all. Were you worried? Like, were you worried? Cause you know, you're sitting there, you have a job to do. You also have a family and everything else.

Well, I guess I was sort of thinking, could I call the fights from an edit trailer? I mean, certainly when I was back at ESPN, I called a WBC heavyweight championship fight in Bristol, Connecticut that took place in Germany. They didn't even air it live. So, but yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of us who felt like if we did have it, it was either a false positive or we were certainly asymptomatic. It was nice to get that result back, but because I was asymptomatic, I was certainly conditioning my mind to the fact that I was going to do the show or beg to do the show if somehow I was positive. So I think from the outside, because of, of i mean there's still so much uncertainty about this i i think and and to be cautious is probably the better route but you know i've always felt like whether it's team sports the athletes do actually want to come back and play at some point especially

when there's money on the line which also means owners want that team money and all this kind of stuff what's dana been like throughout this because i think some people go like what does this guy just decide to do whatever he wants? And I think other people look at it and I'm sure I'm in the second group where it's like, look, he's trying to find a way to navigate through what is happening right now and getting something back on television. Well, and think about all the different people and masters that he's trying to appease in this process. He's talking to fighters and managers and television executives and arena people. I mean, could you imagine all the balls that he and Hunter and our executives had in the air? It's like, you don't want that power. I'm telling you, you don't want that job. So I give them a lot of credit. And I'll just tell you internally, we were getting reassurance

videos from him every few days, right? That made me feel good, you know, that they were doing all the right things and that the protocol was going to be there when we returned to work. You know, we were all just anxious to contribute, I think, because of the way he handled it. Certainly he was bullish in getting our live events back. And, you know, he is a guy, generally speaking, that you kind of want to run through a wall for. So we felt reassured by him. I can't even imagine the challenges that our event operation people had to deal with. But, you know, May 9th for me, selfishly, was better than April 18th, certainly from a family standpoint, to make my wife feel more at ease. But again, man, I mean,

I got a navigation now when I go home. I mean, do I quarantine for 48 hours, mask or otherwise? There are a lot of things that we still have to figure out on the back end. I'm just trying to take it day by day. And of course, I have another live event here coming up Wednesday. Let's talk the event itself then. How weird was it in the beginning for the prelims? And you guys, you separated, as you said, no one there. Dude, I'm taking my cans off and I'm like, dude, Daniel Cormier's voice is echoing off the walls. They can hear everything. So thankfully I wasn't on social media because I saw one guy wrote a tweet like,

oh, John Anik just told the masses what Fighter A's corner told him to do and Fighter B just heard every word of that advice. Let's see how this round plays out. So certainly from a fighter perspective, this is a different dynamic. Carla Esparza, one of our fighters, said she listened to Daniel Cormier's

analysis and incorporated it live into her game plan, and it helped her win a close fight and a split decision. So from that standpoint, totally weird. Certainly, we're used to calling fights in Vegas and places on the West Coast of the US where early on, you know, from the boxing where there's not a lot of people there early on. But again, you're still talking about 300 staffers and maybe 500 fans at that point in time. You can hear everything in the arena, every bit of corner audio, everything that we are saying. So I do think that it'll be a different navigation for the fighters and at least for the commentators.

You know, maybe we talk a little bit quieter when they're over by our side, but I don't know that we can really change our flow. That's a great point about the matches that we used to go to back in the day in Vegas years there for the headliner and the place empties out. And then there's like four or five more fights after, like, you think it's bad to be in the prelim when no one's there, try being in the arena in Vegasgas once everybody's like all right the headliners over we're all gonna go out and hit the casinos and it's like all right coming you know and you're like oh my god i remember the first time it happened i'm like is this a joke or

like is this somebody's buddies and they're letting them fight in here they're like no they have like four or five fights after the main event yeah the ufc used to do it where they'd have a swing bout that would happen after the main event but we were suckers back in the day right like when we started covering boxing we were showing up and watching those prelims at two o'clock in the afternoon we were the only ones in the damn media section so we learned our lesson we started going progressively later as the years went on I love there's two things that I loved about that was one was I would do anything to get out of the sports book because you guys never wanted to leave the sports book. And back then it was just chain smoke, chain smoke, chain smoke.

And I'd be like, you know, can we, does anyone want to like go out, go out? Or are we just going to do this the whole time? And then because we were set up to do our shows, we do like a Thursday, Friday show. So Saturday we didn't have to do anything. And I think one of the first fights fights the three of us went together like we just rolled in like double fisting with beers and sat down and everybody in the media section is like looking at us going what are you what are you guys doing like wait a minute we're off like i know we're done and it was funny too because when the ufc left me the pass for one of the fights i went to with you guys i just i was by myself and some dude

was like hey man he's like i just i don't want to be you know he I just, I was by myself and some dude was like, Hey man, he's like, I just, I don't want to be, you know, he's like, but you really, it's really frowned upon if you're covering the sport. And I went, yeah, I'm not, man. I'm just here. And Annick left me a pass. Like, trust me, no one's going to have a problem with it. By the way, I do regret my decisions back in those days to have not maximized those

nights with you. And I'm sad in the sports, but if I could go back, I would make different decisions. No, you wouldn't. my decisions back in those days to have not maximized those nights with you and just sat in the sports book if i could go back i would make different decisions no you wouldn't you'd be right in the sports but i mean we would do eight nine hour shifts and i'd be like i'm gonna go to the pool or something guys like please and then guys be like what do you think of the hornets over and so you know it gets i get sucked into okay all right so um hardy was another one greg hardy wins his fight i thought for sure he was toast he gets a couple leg kicks and he doesn't seem to know how to check him at all and he just leaves his left leg out there exposed i mean his leg is immediately like uh-oh and you can see he can't really plan on it he comes back because his opponent apparently broke

his foot so he stopped throwing punches all together. The Hardy thing's always interesting because everybody wants to see him lose in disastrous fashion all the time. Yet he carries himself in a way. You know, I always think it's funny. Like, what's Rogan supposed to do? Yell at him again? And, you know, like Rogan has a job to do to interview the guy that won the fight. And that's what he's going to do. And he's not going to make some sort of statement about Greg Hardy's history, which we all know is terrible.

not going to make some sort of statement about Greg Hardy's history, which we all know is terrible. Yeah. And it's interesting for me as a play-by-play guy, because candidly, Ryan, I think a lot of people want me every time he makes a walk to the octagon to run through the whole story again. And I'm not going to do it unless I'm promotionally advised to do it. You know, obviously I'm judging him on his encounters with us. He's been gracious with his time. He's been thoughtful with his answers. Excuse me. I actually think he's almost being too thoughtful as a fighter right now. He's American top team trained.

I think he's managing risk well at times. But if he had Francis Ngannou's reckless abandon, Jorgen De Castro might still be twitching on the canvas, right? I do think, Greg, as he gets more comfortable, he's still a developing green fighter. He will open up a little bit more. He's just trying to rack wins right now. You know, his UFC career started with a DQ. He got a no contest for using an inhaler between rounds, right? So the wins haven't piled up even when the performances have been pretty good, right? He should have two more wins. So it was weird that

Jorgen De Castro just completely stopped fighting after his foot got hurt. Usually you see guys go for it, maybe go out on their shield. He just stopped fighting altogether, which didn't make Hardy's job any easier. But I'm rooting for him, man. He's put in the right work in the right time. And, you know, I do think that eventually you're going to see a number next to his name. I really do. More with John Anik in a sec. Whoop is a fitness wearable that provides personalized and actionable insights on your

sleep, recovery, and daily exertion. We'll be right back. exertion goals to work out optimally based on your recovery data. If you're stuck training at home, it's the perfect feature to use. The app also has a sleep coach, which tells you how much sleep you should be getting based on your goals for the following day. Wake up feeling recovered and ready to take on the day. I really think the sleep thing's great because now you have an excuse. But can I get 30 more minutes? And most of you are working from home now, right? You know, maybe not. I don't know. I don't want to assume anything but i think that's just hey sorry i can't get up right now my my sleep coach told me i need another 45 minutes of shut eye let me get back off a little i can't seem to get my strain up into the 20s

which is just that's a me problem that's a me problem that's just dedication so i'm gonna try and i'm gonna keep you guys updated on this i I love it. Now it's turned into kind of a competition thing and I'm checking stuff all the time and I'm like, oh, my HRV was a little better. Pushed myself a little bit more. So there you go. Whoop is offering 15% off with the code RASILLO at checkout. Go to Whoop. That's W-H-O-O-P.com.

Enter the code RASILLO, R-U-S-S-I-L-L-O at checkout to save 15% sleep better recover faster and train smarter with whoop let's get to the main event there's there's so many other good fights here too we could go through them all but to see Gaethje and I'm going to give you credit here because and I mentioned this in a tweet on Saturday night when we were just doing you know you you and I hanging out on the podcast I kind of gave you like a throwaway like who's the toughest guy you've ever encountered knowing that you've been around fighters now for well over a decade. And you said, Justin Gaethje. And I was like, what? And so I go back, I watch his fights. He's only fighting the night, like literally every single time. And then Ferguson, who's a mutant,

who again, in a loss, I find myself going like, I think I have even more respect for Ferguson than I did before. He hadn't lost since 2012 in a decision. So you're just not used to see Ferguson lose, never mind get beat up. And he took, you know, Cormier sitting there freaking out about his right hand. I'm looking at his left hand. He never had a wrestle and he was an All-American in that too. And he is just wired a little differently in that, you know, you know this. Like guys that are tough, there's tough guys. And then there's guys that's like, what's going on upstairs with him a little bit where

it's almost like a little off in a great way. And he put on one of the great beatdowns I've ever seen. Just incredible. I mean, could you imagine what those scorecards might've looked like? You know, 10 eights in there. Had they actually gone there? Just an incredible performance for a guy that for a long time prioritized being the most entertaining fighter in mixed martial arts. You can check

that box obviously, but now he's got a UFC championship to go with it. Interim or otherwise, this is a huge accomplishment. It's a signature win. It more than validates any body of work outside the UFC. You know, he came into the UFC undefeated, having won a major title outside the UFC and defending it five times. But when you walk into these waters at 155 pounds, nobody wants to give you any credit. So now his resume has the signature win over Tony Ferguson. That was unbeatable for the better part of a decade. I think there are a lot of layers to this fight. I mean, Gaethje and his style, to your point, have produced nine bonuses in seven

UFC fights, all told. I mean, this guy's just getting started in the UFC. But the Ferguson side of this is sad for me, Ryan, right? This is a guy who I was arguing going into this fight, not just at lightweight, was like a Mount Rushmore type guy in MMA. Literally, maybe one of the top five mixed martial arts athletes of all time, yet for one circumstance or another, as is well documented, he had never fought for the undisputed title. And for one circumstance or another, as is well documented, he had never fought for the undisputed title. And now at 36 years old, that might not happen. And for him to be on the wrong end of a beating like this, you know, this brought me back to some of my boxing days when fights are just hard to watch because a guy is the Terminator and just

taking all that unnecessary damage. Thankfully, Herb Dean stepped in when he did. And Tony's dancing in the hospital because he's that special, but scary on the Ferguson side for me at times, for sure. The crazy thing about Ferguson, too, is when guys get wobbled and they lose their legs, it's usually over. I think there were three times, maybe more, where it looked like he lost his legs, and yet he'd still recover. I mean, that's just, I don't understand how that even happens. And he just kept getting tagged and he kept coming. Oh, it's almost like his cardio is so special that it keeps him in a fight like that longer than he, than it should have, you know, that, that he's not, he's not beaten, but also exhausted because he's almost never exhausted.

And he's got this perfect body for fighting. That's just odd and a little different, a little bit longer. And just every limb, it's just as if you just put a fighter in a lab and you put them together. And then the toughness factor. But Gaethje, all right, so let's stay on this because I don't need to do more, Tony, because we understand how special he is. The lightweight division, we both love Conor. But when you lose Habib, it's tough for me to see him. I don't want to stick up for Habib, but when he beats Conor, I think he beat Conor again. I don't think it was the layoff. I

think it's a bad style for Conor. And then Conor starts going at Habib, and now he just went absolute batshit level 11 on Gaethje. This is great for the division and great for the excitement, but how do you see all this stuff playing out? So Conor is really an interesting puzzle for a lot of fighters. And because of everything that encapsulates the McGregor package, he still doesn't get enough credit for just how special a fighter he is. Say what you want about the Cerrone matchup. He was the prohibitive favorite. He was supposed to win that fight, but could he have done anything more with that showcase? Breaking the guy's nose with a shoulder strike, the likes of which we've almost never seen? He couldn't have done more with that

opportunity. His distance management, which is as important as anything in striking, is truly elite. I mean, Demetrius Johnson used to put Conor McGregor on a pedestal when he would talk about striking and range and distance management. So every round begins on the feet. Conor McGregor might lose to Khabib seven out of 10 times, but I don't think it's 10 times out of 10. And I do believe it stands to reason that he'd be better in a rematch. But anyone who questioned Conor's viability

for a Khabib rematch before the Cerrone win has far less of a leg to stand on now. All of that being said, the Gaethje-Khabib fight is absolutely fascinating. Nurmagomedov, in a lot of respects to me, is Floyd Mayweather in the sense that he's just never been flat on fight night, right? 28 times, he's had very few bad rounds,

nevermind being flat throughout. So Khabib's kind of due for a bad night, bro. You know, I don't know if Gaethje can bring it out of him. You know, Justin is not a big lightweight by any stretch of the imagination, and Khabib obviously has some treacherous cuts but this gaethje khabib fight is absolutely fascinating so you think that one happens as much as connor's been going off on social media the last 48 hours well well part of the reason well connor i mean calls more shots than i do but part

of the reason why part of the reason why francis and gano and jarzino rosenstreich weren't fighting for an interim heavyweight title this weekend is because we're trying to put together the trilogy between Stipe and DC. And so if Francis Ngannou is now the interim champion, you're going to have DC without a belt fight Stipe with a belt while Francis waits, right? So when you have an interim champion, as Justin Gaethje now is, he has to be the guy to challenge Khabib. Certainly, Conor could have something to say about that. But yes, Gaethje and Khabib. Certainly, Conor could have something to say about that, but yes, Gaethje and Khabib had the same manager. I am very confident that that fight would happen this fall. Okay. All right. Your Conor stuff is right on. It's crossed over because of the lead-up to the Floyd fight. He said stuff that he's not going to be able to apologize for. It's just not going to

sit well with people going, what are you doing at some of this stuff? I thought that Habib lead up was weird because, and I give big cat credit for this because, you know, we were talking about that fight going up to it. And it was like, he, he was a great line. Cause big cat goes, you know, I just don't think Habib gets it. I don't think he gets like, I'm going to make fun of you and do these things and that you're going to take it as like a real dismissal of honor. And it's like, no, it's kind of the buildup. This is what happens. Muhammad Ali, the horrible shit he said about Frazier and George Foreman, it sucks, but iticans kind of sticking up for habib when you were like have you guys dug into any of that stuff like because it i don't care where you're at and he's a great great fighter but like that whole part of it's really weird so where i respect that i'd probably pick habib in a rematch despite how many pronunciations of his name there are

out there um because i know we're doing two different ones. Yeah, we're in touch for a little bit. Is it fair to criticize him for feeling like he ducked this or it's really hard too to tell a fighter, oh, you're ducking. And it's like, no, it's coronavirus. I don't want to deal with this right now. So I don't have an answer, John,

for what I think is fair about criticisms of who is or isn't fighting in all of this stuff. I just know that it's kind of tougher to back Conor, even though I'm with you on all of his fight resume stuff. The stuff that he's done almost doesn't get enough credit right now. But it's hard to back the guy that lost to the guy that he's calling out, even if I think the guy that won could also still be called out, if that makes any sense. Yeah, no, it makes sense. I mean, I think this is a very difficult climate in which to criticize somebody for not traveling away from their family

for potentially months at a time. You know, Tony Ferguson, I respect that he did not like Khabib's decision to leave the country that they were both in that close to the fight. But when they're locking down Russia, you know, Tony's an American and he's in his home country, right?

So there are different variables going on. And I do believe that Khabib needs a perfect training camp or close to it to beat Tony Ferguson, right? And vice versa, right? So if he thought the training camp was gonna be further compromised because of COVID-19, I don't have a problem with that decision. And I don't have much of a problem, candidly,

with guys who want to be critical. I think for Tony, the reason he was so critical was because he knows that this fight singularly was as big as any in UFC history. And they tried to put it together four or five times prior. So he was like, really, bro? Like, we need to make this happen. I know this is tough, but you might need to stay in the US

for three months away from your children. But as far as Conor and Khabib are concerned, you know, neither is inherently an emotional fighter, thankfully, right? But this is a true bitterness. is inherently an emotional fighter, thankfully, but this is a true bitterness. This rivalry, there really isn't much fabrication going on. I do think eventually

when fighters compete and their trilogy or their series is done, they can bury the hatchet, but this heat is very real, and therefore, for a fight fan like me, I just want all of it. Before we say goodbye to Anik, I want to ask him a little bit about his co-host on the fights, Joe Rogan, why he's never been on the Rogan podcast. Raising

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and their menu is proof they focus on only doing one thing really well making hot fresh and fast chicken finger meals just for you stop by today all right you mentioned his name uh francis and gano you want to talk about putting together a guy in a lab um you're you almost he's almost one of those guys especially like boxers you go well this guy must suck because you go his body's too perfect he's into working out he's cutting carbs and all this different stuff i can't even say that he put on a show i mean the fight was over in like 10 seconds and the other guy had called them out, which is fine. And that's part of it. But how real is Ngannou as far as his future in becoming a dominant force in the UFC? So I think he's the most terrifying force to have ever graced those eight walls. I mean,

you talk about- Wait a minute. What? Well, here's the thing. So Anthony Rumble Johnson, right? A guy who Daniel Cormier submitted twice. I always thought that Rumble Johnson would become a champion. I thought he was the most powerful striker that I had ever seen in there. People mentioned Shane Carwin back-

Dude, I have a Rumble Johnson hoodie. Are you kidding? Like, I was like, oh my God, give me more of this guy. But he just, I don't think he had the conditioning that the other guys had. So Francis Ngannou was in his mid-30s. He was born in Batik, Cameroon, where the average citizen makes $1,300 a year. That was good research. You said that during the fight.

I feel like if Francis Ngannou showed up, and I hope that this doesn't make NFL defensive linemen feel badly like, you know, the Long brothers and others out there. defensive linemen feel badly like, you know, the Long brothers and others out there. But I am pretty convicted in saying that if Francis Ngannou went to an NFL training camp one of the next few Julys and they told him to go get a quarterback, I think he'd find a way to get the quarterback. I think he would be a pro football hall of famer if he was born in this country. There's no one that can physically match this guy in our heavyweight division. Certainly the two-time U.S. Olympian Daniel Cormier can take him down and Stipe beat him, obviously. Derek Lewis did beat Nganou a few years ago in what was just an outlier of fight with no action. But now Francis Nganou's cardio, in theory, is completely next level. We haven't seen any of the skill development because nobody

lasts. When he is finishing these guys, the referee's jumping in as if they're a paramedic trying to save the other guy's life. His last four fights have lasted 111 or less, so you're not seeing any of what this guy can do. It is an eventuality that he's going to be the UFC heavyweight champion. And when he is, he'll elevate to superstardom. He is our Mike Tyson. Anytime we're not leading the show with him, with respect to Gaethje, we're probably burying the lead. But I do believe he needs the belt to realize all of that. And he's making his 13th UFC appearance next.

And he doesn't have the belt yet. But I think eventually he'll get it. Wow, that is insane. So you feel like he could be more dominant than Jones? Well, it's hard to talk about sustaining that success. And obviously, heavyweight MMA, anything can happen. And he is getting an awfully late start. Jon Jones was the youngest champion in UFC history

and got us in his mid-30s. But, I mean, my gosh, Ryan. I mean, like, talk about maximizing a showcase this weekend. Jorginho Rosenstreich had 85 kickboxing matches with Uncle Steven, 10-0 in MMA. 85 kickboxing. Part of the reason Rosenstreich called out and got it. Yeah, right. His legs.

I've been in there 90 times with people that are as big as you, but maybe not quite as big and as terrifying. The other thing, too, and I'll make it quick. Don't. Take your time. Well, when you shake Brock Lesnar's hand, Lesnar's hand is pretty big top to bottom, and he wears a big

UFC glove. But when Lesnar shakes your hand, it's not anything memorable per se. Probably because he hates everybody, though. He doesn't want to shake your hand. Exactly, right. He almost limps it. It's actually kind of funny. But when Francis Ngannou shakes your hand, he's almost touching your elbow, completely envelopes your forearm. It's just a completely

different... I mean, Daniel Cormier, I was just downstairs with him in the fighter meetings. I'm eye to eye with him, you know? I mean, with respect, you know? This is just a totally different specimen that we're dealing with. And just can't wait to see him get a second opportunity at the heavyweight title because I have a funny feeling he might take advantage. specimen that we're dealing with and uh just can't wait to see him get a second opportunity the heavyweight title because i have a funny feeling he might take advantage you've worked with rogan for a while now by the way have you ever been on his podcast no i think it's a coastal issue you know i gotta get my ass to la you know and maybe humbly ask him at some point but uh well because i know no one i'm just going to interrupt because i know no one asks him i mean it's it sucks for joe because it's this monster of a

podcast so that part's great so i'm not like turning that into this this negative but now every single fighter and i actually enjoy it so much watching every fighter ask joe at the end like especially a guy in a prelim who's like got a 12 next to his name and no you know no disrespect but it's like all right yeah thanks joe joe you're gonna have me on the pod and you know and it's like glass joe and rogan's like oh yeah cool and he's like just has this look down where it's like there's no fucking way i'm booking you on my podcast like get a belt for us dude i'm telling you get something get a number next to your name at least my god you know uh and i'm always conditioning myself when i go in there and do those post-fight interviews for a fighter to be like, dude, Rogan's not here tonight, you know? And obviously, Hey dude, maybe he'll be here,

you know, what else you got, you know? But, uh, no, I mean, I love Joe and obviously we have a personal friendship and the guy has to change his cell phone number every six months because everybody wants a piece of him. You know, obviously I am a conduit through which people try to get to Joe. So I've had hundreds of requests from people. How bad? How bad is it? Because it must be awful. I'll tell you, I've only given, brought one of the 100 requests.

I'd say there's been 100 people who've asked me for a piece of Joe. And only one time did I pass it along when Roy Jones Jr. reached out. I said, you know what, this is Roy Jones Jr. And Joe was obviously very receptive to it. And that's the thing. Joe's a super guy, you know, and really treats you like a friend and embraced me when he didn't have to, you know, let's not forget this guy was in a two-man broadcast booth for two decades. And then it's like, Hey, by the way, we're giving you a new play-by-play guy. And also a fighter is going to be next to you too. And it's a totally different navigation. I mean, any play by player or color commentator would tell you that. So he's embraced us. And, uh,

I hope to get the chance to, uh, to rip a blunt with him in Los Angeles at some point. Yeah. It would seem like a really good fit. I'd love to get the loosest version of Anik on that pod with Rogan. Yeah'd be fun hopefully bc could be there too i think that would add some uh levity to it as well you know so give me your favorite rogan on the road story then do you have one because you're right like it's this fame that's that's almost different it's it's not like it's dicaprio walking into a room but in the ufc world it's you know in a weird way it's like he's more famous than the UFC in it and I don't I don't mean that like just side by side and I'm not talking revenue or any

of that kind of things but like there's there's the fame that he has with this and the UFC is this monster but he also has this other part of him that's beyond being a comedian he's just from the podcast that I think it's a really it's a very unique it's not even a pairing but that doesn't happen very often like hey this is your career this is your thing and this is what you're known that I think is a really, it's a very unique, it's not even a pairing, but that doesn't happen very often. Like, Hey, this is your career. This is your thing. And this is what you're known for. It's like, Oh, by the way, like he has the number one thing in this thing that almost every one of us is doing. It's amazing. I wouldn't have a podcast and I've had one for five years without him, you know, and he was obviously a big impetus for our, us starting ours. But you know, I get

asked a lot about like certain anecdotes with Joe. And when I first started working with him, we were going out to dinner a lot. Now I'm doing the post shows on ESPN plus. So I haven't broken bread with the guy now in probably a year and a half. So I guess I will say like, I think he's funnier like on broadcast and in dinner conversations than ever before. Like his standup's great and I go see him all the time, but we very much have the same sense of humor as far as that's concerned. So I'm spitting my food out laughing at the guy just being himself. But at the end of the day, our common ground really is fighting and we don't get a chance without television makeup and monitors and logistics to talk fighting. So most of the time we spend together is having a coffee together

before the broadcast and we talk about fighting. I mean, certainly we've talked about COVID-19 and different pop cultural things. But most of the time, that's what we want to draw out of each other. And that's sort of the God's honest truth about it. I know it's not super interesting. I mean, he certainly gets us into restaurants in Chicago, Illinois that close and reopen for him and the staff response to this guy. I mean, dude, it's just next level, man. I mean, I don't know that there's any point of

comparison for the American male other than Howard Stern, right? I mean, my family, my brother-in-law knows more about Joe Rogan than I do because he's listened to every utterance of the man for the last day, you know? Yeah. I mean, some wondered after having elon musk on again if joe just decided he was a non-believer in the coronavirus and that's why he was just in there hugging it out with all the fighters after the fact really like no like i don't know that it was the pod uh i guess i'll leave has anyone ever tried to become because joe we've seen the workout videos the leg kicks are incredible has anybody ever tried to be like a tough guy with him? Like not liked what he said? Cause that's always a weird spot. Like I can have a basketball guy tweeted me,

but I don't think he's going to beat me up. So it's a really interesting navigation for the analysts. Now, Joe wasn't a part of our fighter meetings this week and usually is not because he comes in a little bit later, but we had a fighter just now walk in and confront Daniel Cormier about a previous broadcast. It happens all the time. And certainly there have been times where I will do a fighter call and they say, hey, by the way, in that last fight, just to let you know, dude,

you're calling out those leg kicks. They weren't doing any damage. I wouldn't even feel them. And I'm like, bro, I respect that, but I don't know that. You're not checking the kick. And I'm a play-by-play guy, so I calling the leg kick and you know diego sanchez was unhappy but i could see that with the leg kicks i could see how it looks like a guy's getting worked and

what are you supposed to do like they're connecting he's not checking him he's not you know he's not doing anything but i could also see a fighter whose nerves are so shot because he's he's taken so many kicks or the guys who have no feeling in their elbows anymore, you know, like they're, they would get annoyed by hearing that, but it looks like contact if they're clean. Well, exactly. And there are some coaches who don't want their fighters checking leg kicks, you know, so you try to find out who those coaches are and who those camps are. So you don't screw that up on the broadcast, but you know, Diego Sanchez, you know, was a guy who was upset with something, uh, and reached out to me privately and we were able to bury the hatchet. But it's an inconvenient truth of our business.

I mean, you know, it's probably been less than 15 times for me. You know, the funnier things that have happened to me, maybe not so funny for the fathers, is when I've assigned children to fighters that either don't have the kid. So like Corey Anderson, his wife was pregnant a few fights ago and something got lost in translation on the phone. Yeah, you're laughing. He was not laughing. Right. So I'm just thinking how bad I didn't know it was going to be this bad. I said on the broadcast, like, oh, Corey and his wife, you know, recently, you know, had a child, you know, and then Corey was like, dude, how you go assigning me as a second kid you know because like all these people he gets finished the fight and he's got 50 text messages from people like is there a baby i don't know about so you issue a retraction and you move on but that's so that's where it's gotten hairy for me is when you know how many kids do you have uh none yet man um that's incredible yeah he's a great friend at john underscore anik uh there's there's few guys that i root for as much as i do anik he's just i don't know he's always been great to me even when i probably didn't even deserve it all the time so um you can check him out too as well the anik and florian podcast i imagine you got a new one coming up too that you'll be recapping

the week and then getting ready for the next one, right? Yep, and I always appreciate the chance to chop it up with you, man. You know I think you're the GOAT, even if you won't take that amateur mixed martial arts fight at 185 pounds that we've been talking about for half a decade now. Well, I weigh 227 now.

All right, so we'll do it at 205. We'll do it at 205. There are winnable amateur fights for you out there at 205 yeah we'll do it at 205 there's there are winnable amateur fights for you out there at 20 can you get some sort of thing where there's no right arm arm bars that can be attempted because i'm pretty sure that if anybody tried they would be ripping the arm the four out out of the elbow at this point so just tap just gotta tap yeah but if you tap you can't wear any of the tap out gear it Huntington Beach. So if I'm like, what am I going to do with my tap out board shorts and stringer tanks? And then you're like, you're the guy who tapped out on an arm bar.

Like you can't wear your tap out gear. But hey, I'll tell you, hey, every round begins on the feet. It's your job to keep it there. You're the best. Talk to you soon, bud. Thank you, buddy. All right. I hope you enjoyed the deal here with Anik.

Fun pod. Fun pod for this. And we'll talk to you on Thursday. I can't wait to talk about Thursday's guest. An incredible book, American Kingpin. We're doing that with the author, Nick Bilton, on Thursday. Thank you. you