The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Warriors for Real? Mavs Are Fine, Embiid’s Return, and the Bucks' Future With Howard Beck.

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Russillo begins with Tales from the Couch and breaks down Klay’s homecoming and Embiid’s first game (0:41). Then, he’s joined by Howard Beck to discuss how deep this Warriors team can go, what has gone wrong with Milwaukee, and how real this Cavaliers team is (18:04). Finally, Kyle and Ceruti join for Life Advice (51:59). How do I convince my boyfriend he needs to wear deodorant? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Howard Beck Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Big NBA Wednesday for you, tails from the couch, Golden State's viability, a little Dyson Daniels love, not worried about Dallas, a couple other small things that I want to get to including NBA's return that we'll do with Howard Beck. Also how bad would it actually have to get for the Milwaukee Bucks? And let's just kind of go back and look at the timeline of events and what's fair about them.

Has he ever been shoved by an NBA player and even more NBA stuff with him? We've got life advice, including a movie correction that I needed. Miller Lite, the light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can. They chose both because they knew the best part of beer is the beer. Your game time tastes like Miller time.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Tales from the Couch on a Wednesday. I always feel like I haven't watched basketball in five years when I go on a road trip and it's hard to keep up with the routine. But a lot of good stuff from last night, some real clarity.

I just feel good today. I don't know what it is, but I feel good. I wanna talk hoops with you. All right, let's open up with the routine, but a lot of good stuff from last night, some real clarity, I just feel good today. I don't know what it is, but I feel good. I want to talk hoops with you. All right. Let's open up with golden states win against Dallas. Shout out to golden state fans, the organization, the captain's lids for clay's return, all time. Great move, unique, can't be topped. Maybe you could do it with the Admiral.

Um, but now it wouldn't be original. So I love it. And I love seeing clay ball. I just like clay. I like him. I like what his history is, what his legacy will be. I like his personality a ton. And I do like when somebody goes and rolls into his old home and

it's like, you guys doubted me. Here you go. I'm going to give it to you, but it wasn't enough cause golden state gets the win. So now we've got three teams at the top of the West at nine and two golden state, okayC, Phoenix. OKC has their own issues with all three of their centers out right now. Chet, timeline with the hip thing. I mean, that was bad. Januaryish, J-Will 2, what I like to call them, probably another month.

And then Arnstein return imminent. So it looks like they'll be able to weather this and not have to play J probably another month. Um, and then Arnstein return imminent. So it looks like they'll be able to weather this and not have to play Jalen Williams one at center and some Ousmane Jang. So this is actually something that I'm noticing more and more too. We saw it last night with Golden State with their closing lineup, which isn't exactly new. It's like reinventing Golden State, but some of the small ball lineups that I've seen from teams around the league.

Like I could give you a ton of examples of it, but okay. See by necessity Golden State by design again, see it with Houston at times. Memphis is on a little run here. They played ED only 15 minutes against Lakers, but granted AD was out and some Jay Huff production as well. Denver in the non-Yokich stuff at times. So yeah, there's just, it's just something to look at where I'm noticing that it's, it's actually more impressive with some of these

small ball lineups because just how many guys are offensive threats, which I think is what the league eventually will just shift into. If you're big and you have this full range of offensive skills, great too. But it may be like the Sam Presti model, right? Just, Hey, let's get long dudes that can all create pass, dribble, and shoot. In theory, good luck. Good luck trying to do all of those things. Right.

And of course with Boston last year, with the Przingus part of it, and even with Horford, that's kind of what you're getting as well, where everybody who has the ball in a big spot, you're not worried. Like think how hard that it's like, you can, you could be a GM, a potential GM talking to an owner and going through the interviews. You're like, what I'd like to have is five guys that are all awesome at passing, shooting, and dribbling,

and all be huge. Okay, you're hired. Great. So Golden State, the energy that they're bringing night in and night out. I forget which game I talked about it after the after because it's they've had a few of these where you see games has completely shifted on their energy and the defensive energy they have their third on offense in the league, their fourth in defense. And the minutes that they're handing out here,

the buy-in, because this usually doesn't work. All right. And even Steve Kerr has hinted at like, I might have to shorten this rotation at some point playing 12 to 13 guys. But Steph going into last night, only 28 minutes per game, a bump up because they needed them to close that fourth. So 29 minutes per game. And again, I don't know that it really will last, you know, whenever our

teams have struggled in the past, one of the default things will be the front office will bitch about the coaching staff, specifically the head coach going, you know, you know what, it's we're two months into the season, like figure out your eight guys, maybe a ninth guy based on the matchup thing, but you can't really play this many guys. All seasonal. You could also make an argument with Golden State's record in the statistical profile, which is incredible.

If you were really projecting them out in the playoffs, is there enough of a consistent do it on his own second score on this team that you like in the playoffs and I'm talking like the real playoffs, right? Not the first round, the real playoffs. And that as of right now for me is a little TBD unless Kaminga takes another jump. I have some stuff on wakens here a little bit, but we'll get into it.

So at the start of the fourth quarter, speaking of offense, there are different rotations. This is why I always liked the substitution talk. Some of you may not like it, but you'll look within a game and see how a team is rolling out there five. And the first thing I'll look for is, okay, where is the offense? Like Denver had a lineup.

I think last week where I was just like, Oh my God, this might be rough. And it was brutal. So at the start of the fourth quarter for golden state, it was Pajemski, Kaminka, Moody, um, Draymond and then Melton. And they were up seven. And then by the time Steph checked in six plus minutes, uh, the game was tied. So they'd given up the seven points and you know, Pajemski can certainly initiate on his own Kaminka isa is, is in moments, kind of nice.

Moody's fine. Draymond's probably a little more assertive offensively at times because he understands like what they need. And then Melton has always been, I think, an incredibly underrated player, but for an NBA five against a really good team like Dallas, you're like, um, what's this going to look like? And I'm not saying like I'm a hundred percent right because they gave up the seven points, but it's just, just something to think about

when you're watching these teams in those moments without their main guns. Again, the Denver five, they had one the other night was Westbrook, Strother, Hunter Tyson, Zeke Nagy was the four around Michael Porter Jr. Being like, you guys want me to do all of this shit now? It's like, yeah, kinda. Can you do some more of these? I don't forget what the plus minus was for that stretch. Let's not worry about it right now. So we've got the clay return. Kyrie's put a blow torch to this season in a good way. Uh, he doesn't miss any shots. 55 and 54% splits 25 and five. Um, and five, right.

Five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five, five any shots. 55 and 54% splits, 25 and five. Um, and five, right? Five, a lot of fives. The advanced numbers tell you this might be Kyrie's best season since his first season in Boston. Still a lot of work to do very early. Uh, Lucas starting to shoot it a little better after a slow start, but I want

to do a bit of an NBA audit on Dallas. Like what were your returns last year? This guy's talking about taxes again. I can't even. All right, so what we have to do when we look at last year for Dallas, we have to remember that they were a different team after February 10th,

once they acquired Gafford and PJ Washington. And that was something too, when you started to look at Denver, excuse me, Dallas, last season and trying to figure out how good can this team actually be. All right, well, there's some alarming numbers here. I mean, even OKC had that super alarming rebound rate number. And then it's always funny

when there's this awful number and then somebody locally will write why it's actually not a bad thing. You're like, I don't know, that seems to be pretty bad when you're one of the three or four worst rebounding teams. And we're trying to figure out if you're going to win a title. But Dallas had some bad numbers, you know, for a real title contender. They weren't like terrible, but just something to look at. Right. So if you look at their, whether or not they fixed their things with the Gafford

PJ acquisition and the two headed monster of Gafford and lively last season, they were just, they were just, they were just, they were just, they were just So if you look at their, whether or not they fixed their things with the Gafford PJ acquisition and the two headed monster of Gafford and Lively, last season from that point on again, February 10th on ninth on offense, eighth on defense, rebounding rate was 19th and then true shooting percentage was 18, or excuse me, eight, eight. So top 10. This year, they're 11th in offense, they're 11th in defense,

the rebounding's actually worse with the fix it guys. So at 26% they're 26th in rebound rate and the shooting is down 14. Now the real thing is that Dallas just went through five games where they played Phoenix at Denver at Golden State, three losses by a combined six points. So these numbers may not mean anything. I just thought it was sort of interesting as like you had to throw away some of the bad numbers with Dallas before the trade deadline.

And then the numbers were sort of better. And I think there's some rim protection stuff too that's good. And then you can look at some of these numbers and go, well, how are they actually getting worse? Because when I think of the good version of Dallas that I've seen this season, it's like, everybody just kind of knows exactly what the role is already. You know, Nick Nurse is over here every night prepping going, like when's Nick Nurse actually going to know what his team looks like?

We have a few moments on them, B, don't worry about it. So yeah, that's, I don't, I wouldn't sit here and get super worried about Dallas because again, what's another thing that we tell you constantly on this podcast? It's the schedule, stupid. That's sometimes the simplest way to explain a team having this incredible run, this massive spike, and then early on like this for Dallas with all of these expectations coming off the NBA finals. Like, hey, what's wrong with them? Well, what's wrong with them is they played three awesome teams here. So I'm not that worried late plays. One thing to look at if they match up again is Steph getting the switch into Luca, which makes sense.

But the second part of what they do is they set a screen to set Steph hunting Luca and then Draymond brings lively up. And then Steph has the option of, and he even kind of like hinted at this in the post game, he has the option of switching into Lively or what I liked the first time he did it is he just went right by Luka, ignored the Draymond Lively action of it,

which was just so smart. Draymond bringing him up and now Lively's away from the rim. So now all of your rim protection is gone and there's attackers all around. Um, a couple other small things. I think Wiggins just looks better. Traditional stats are going to show you that much. The advanced stuff does. I just think he looks better.

And then sometimes your eyes can lie to you. They're not lying to me on Wiggins. And I doubt if you like them too, they're lying. They're not lying to you either. Uh, but he healed. It feels like more drives, but the drive totals, I went into them this morning. It's not really that different than it was with Philadelphia. It's about the same as it was with Pacers.

Maybe the drives just feel more successful because there's space on any of the Steph minutes there. Atlanta beats Boston. The Hawks are five and seven. Trey was out last night. The East three seed through the nine seed. Orlando's the three seed. It's six and six. Their win against the Hornets. The nine seed in the East is four and six.

This feels like it's going to be a mess for a long time here. So I'm not sure I'll be. I don't know if there'll be great conviction in January about who really is good in the East outside of Cleveland where trust me, Cavs fans, it's overdue. I've got to do it, but I saw you live in New Orleans. I'll get to it. I'll probably do the big deep dive after the Cleveland Boston game next week. And even if they were to lose, if Cleveland were to lose that game, not going to freak

out about it. I really like what I've seen from them, but they didn't play last night. So I don't have it for you right now and the rest of the East. But I want to talk about Dyson Daniels who the Hawks acquire in the Dejante Murray trade. He went crazy last night, 28-7-3. He's still only 21. He's 22 in March. I loved him before the draft. This is what I wrote in 22 and prepping for him. I'm gonna give you one sentence. He is constantly all caps. When I write all caps notes to myself, I know I'm serious. He is constantly making the right play.

Pass, reads, D, drives, floater versus drive. Doesn't just drive to drive. Defensive stance, instincts, knows when when to help jump into passing lanes. There you go. He is right now putting together a defensive resume. There's no way he's going to keep this up. He has 76 deflections on the season. Alex Caruso's number two in the NBA with 44 total deflections. He has 36 steals.

15 ahead of Jalen Williams, number one with 21. Caruso led the NBA last year with 3.7 deflections per game. So far Dyson Daniels is at 7.6. Atlanta out rebounded Boston, constant turnovers. A lot of it was great defense, especially with Dyson. We're talking about six straight steals, six more, or six or more steals, I think in three straight games. Also some just stupid ass passing from Boston on top of everything else. So it's all sort of connected in there.

So with Dyson with no tray last night, I know what you think I'm going to say, but I'm not going to say it because it was one game. I think there's also something about the De'Jante trade where it's like, man, De'Jante, this guy comes in and he's like pretty good. I don't know if De'Jante's played defense in San Antonio. And I understand New Orleans trying to raise their offensive ceiling, but the, the issue with Dyson is a bit like Josh Gitti, right? If Gitti is off the ball, it's kind of pointless.

And that's why Oklahoma city moved on from them. And they also get somebody like Alex Caruso, who is a better complimentary fit to the on-ball people that Oklahoma city usually litters their lineup with. Right. Or recover that roster construction. Dyson Daniels off the ball is kind of pointless too. I mean, he averaged four shot attempts per game with New Orleans. And, you know, if we really want to dig into

some of this stuff, the offense is still a total work in progress for a guy who's 21. He's 27% from three, 31% from his career. So that 27% number is this year, but getting to see what it looks like last night is really exciting knowing that when Trey comes back in, and I'm not even dissing Trey here, okay? It's just what does it look like when somebody who has not developed the NBA shot and can't use his on-ball creative instinctive stuff that is so enticing from him, you know,

when Gideon is right, it's kind of what gets you excited about Gideon all over. I mean, it's the reason why draft profile wise, looking at the guys, you're like, look at all the size of the ball handling and how they set other guys up. It's like, okay, instead you can't shoot and go stand over there. Uh, the difference between Gideon Dyson is clearly the defense because everything we just went through on what Dyson is doing so far, this early part of the season defensively should prove that there's a role for anyone that can do that kind of stuff. The other problem is, is if you have a center who's not any kind of

threat from the perimeter and you have Dyson out there with them, which is Capello or Kongu, then it's, it starts to become a little bit more challenging, especially when you're trying to think like, okay, against good teams, if you were in the playoffs, like how easy are we going to defend? Um, but Congo is actually trying to take threes. Now he's at two attempts per game. It's 21%. He was 33% last year and just one attempt. Um, but it does concern me a little bit and just what it'll all look like when everybody's back, but just a few minutes on Jaylen Johnson. He did everything last night, just pulled out the entire toolbox and showed you what he's capable of.

Here's a number for you. Jokic right now is leading the NBA with 116 touches per game. Okay. That's the highest touch per game total I've seen in 12 years. I think since the tracking data was even logged. So it might be, you know, I don't know who's going to beat that before that. Right. Especially with even less possessions, slower pace, all the stuff we've been talking about.

So last time I brought this number up when I was talking about the Jokic workload, it was 111 touches. So it's actually gone up since we've done it. Jokic was one-on-one last year. So again, Jokic has led it the last six years. It's usually around a hundred absurd number this year.

Do you know who's number two? Well, it would make sense if you were paying attention. It's Jalen Johnson of the Hawks. Now he's usually around a hundred absurd number this year. Do you know who's number two? Well, it would make sense if you were paying attention. It's Jalen Johnson of the Hawks. Now he's incredible the way he, but he had a drive on Jalen Brown where Jalen Brown looked just too small, too weak to even handle him. The follow-dunks, right?

He had a couple of pull-ups. They were initiating a ton of the offense with him where he was handling the basketball at the top of the key. And you're like, is this a real thing? Is this going to be something that's like a real weapon for them? Well, we know what the stat lines are for him. We know how exciting he can be. And we got the full toolbox of it all last night.

A couple of closing thoughts. Detroit, great win against Miami in overtime. The inbounds pass to tie it and then the technical foul on the heat for not having a timeout to call it. Beasley hits the free throw game. I wonder if Monty Williams on league past night watches the Pistons. Better odds. Monty Williams watches the Pistons or Stan VanGundy would watch the Pelicans after he left. Ity Williams watches the pistons or Stan Mignoghan,

he would watch the Pelicans after he left. I don't know the answer to that. I don't have a lot on him, Bede. We're gonna get to it with Howard Beck. He looked terrible and that's to be expected, so I'm not gonna be critical of him. Cat fought his ass off last night. Really just love his work,

even though I don't love the total cat package. I think he deserves credit for how hard he worked last night. Jared McCain looks like a steal in the draft. You want to talk comfortable immediately? Looks like the Sixers got another one. Red One. We're coming at you. Is the movie event of the holiday season. Santa Claus has been kidnapped. You're going to help us find him. You can't trust this guy. He's on the list. He's a naughty lister. Naughty lister?

Dwayne Johnson. We got snowmen! Chris Evans. It might just go back to the car. Let's save Christmas. I'm not going to say that. Say it. All right.

Let's save Christmas. There it is. Only in theaters Friday. There it is. Only in theaters Friday. Amazon's Black Friday week starts November 21st with new deals added every day. Save on home goods to deck their halls, toys to stuff their stockings, and fashion like slippers to missile their toes. Shop great deals on Amazon.

From the ringer, it's Howard Beck, a lifer covering the NBA. And we mean that as a compliment. Let's go, let's get into all of this stuff. I want to start out West. We have those three teams, the nine and two record. We know that OKC is getting one of their centers back while they're going to be missing the other two, Durant down for a little bit.

And this Golden State thing keeps rolling. Let's start there with their win last night, just overall. Like we know the rules and I talked about it in the open a little bit and this Golden State thing keeps rolling. Let's start there with their win last night, just overall. Like we know the rules and I talked about it in the open a little bit. No one actually wants to play this many people because it feels like it's just not sustainable, but they are taking advantage of their depth, the energy, especially with some of the guys that are more defensive minded. It's really, really impressive and kind of a coach's dream to see kind of that, that effort and the fact that step buys into the limited minutes and all this stuff.

I just wonder, it's not about, Hey, can they win a title? But like, what do you, how long do you expect this to happen? Cause I think even Kura said like, yeah, well it's fun right now. We'll see. Yeah, no blessing and curse potentially when you're a head coach who's got. 10, 11, 12 guys or whatever whatever who all are good enough to play. It's an incredible luxury, but it is awkward. It's not what guys are used to. Players like routine, players like consistency and players like minutes and to have a substantial amount of them. Um, and it's, it's hard if you're

like, I was looking at like, you know, Lindy waters, the third, it was, I think I didn't even know if you had done the, who he played for a game with me a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have even known that Lindy waters was on the warriors. I'm sorry. I'm supposed to know these things. I would not have known. Oh, Lindy waters, a really good rotation guy for the warriors. Sure. Of course.

Why not? And he hasn't played the last two games. That's how deep they are right now. I don't think it can last. As you noted, Kerr himself has kind of alluded to the fact, as a former player. He knows that can't last. So the question, I think, Roussilla becomes,

does Kerr eventually find his eight or nine guys that he trusts most? And that can do enough, right? Because you've got a lot of guys who the reason you have a deep rotation like that is you don't have enough guys who are great two-way guys so okay a defensive specialist here we can do five six seven minutes with this guy we you know here's our three-point shooter we can do seven eight nine minutes with him but you want guys that you can rely on for 15 18 20 and when guys are limited or a little more one-dimensional, it becomes difficult.

So instead, you just go wave after wave of guys who will all come in, play their asses off for their five-minute turn or whatever. It can work for a while. Yes, I do think eventually he has to cut it down. And when he cuts it down, he might lose some of what made this work. Because now you're going to play guys longer than maybe they're the totality of their talent would merit. So I'm skeptical that it can last.

I'm also of the belief like a lot of people, and this is easy to say here in mid November, that they've set themselves up really well for a consolidation trade. But those are like, trading is just really hard the NBA and it's even harder right now under the second apron and all of the limits that teams across the league have. So I am curious where this goes. Can he stick with a really deep rotation? Does he cut it back to the point where maybe they lose what made it special? Or does this ultimately end up with a consolidation trade and who are they getting back in that deal?

Like, those are the curiosities I have. But in the meantime, they're really fun. Like, they're just, they look, they have, they embody because it's still Stefan Dremond at the core. They still embody a lot of what made the Warriors fun to watch and what also made them a great basketball team. And man, if they could just keep the good vibes going for a while, like the, and as long as Stefan Dremel are healthy, I don't see why they can't keep

winning at a really high rate. I doesn't make them contenders necessarily, but I think they can do some damage and I thought that before the season started, by the way, I wasn't sure. You know, I just, I feel like the drop off from one to two and that's kind of where I'll look at them. If this is still the same team and they're entering the playoffs, I'm just going to go, all right, this is awesome. And yet from Steph to who number two is offensively in those really tight moments, is there somebody here? Unless we get, you know, I think Wiggins has looked

much more like Wiggins from two years ago than last year. We know, you know, there's a bunch of stuff going on. It's funny you bring up Lindy Waters though, because I think Oklahoma city is at such a stage with their depth and how good they are evaluating talent building. As soon as they cut somebody, I would just want them on my team to get a look like a Presti liked him that much. And they're in such a log jam, especially with all the draft picks coming up.

Like the first thing I'd be telling guys, like as soon as Oklahoma City cuts somebody, even if I didn't like the guy in college, we're just bringing them in for a couple of months to see what happens. Uh, you know what, let's just get to it because it's, it's fun. Even if it's stupid, you just mentioned the trade stuff and as much as I just love fantasizing about what options could be out there, also the, the quiet. Time, right? The calm before the storm where we've been a little quiet, like last year's trade deadline was just impossibly boring. This summer was fairly straightforward and it's like, man, we're due

here. But I think part of the new CBA, as much as it was essentially a hard cap without saying it's a hard cap, great marketing, is that the next guy who's mad, who wants to do something, now you can just say, well, cool, but we can't. And I guess like when we just do the Milwaukee part of it, start there, even though it drives Bucs fans crazy and it would need to, because it's one of the three best players in the league with Giannis. How much of this is even possible if it were to get there? Like how bad would this have to get?

And if it got that bad, what's even viable in this new world? I have never had Bucs fans angrier at me, Rossello then about a year ago at this time, I had just started the ringer and Giannis signed that extension and my editor, Matt Dollinger said, Hey, what do you think of the extension? I said, that's not really news. Guy signed extensions. I said, besides, in today's NBA, extensions don't mean anything anyway because Guy signed extensions and then ask out the next day.

He goes, that's your column. I said, oh, yeah, I guess it is. I wrote that. What I wrote at the time was not that I expect Giannis to ask out, not that I want him to ever ask out. I'm all in favor actually of continuity in this league, especially in small markets. But it's the reality of the time that we're living in, in this NBA, superstars eventually, if they get disillusioned for any reason, they're going to ask for trades.

So the clock is always ticking. And all I meant to say in that column column and I stand by every word of it Is that you just never know things take a turn quickly in this league is that happening right now? I think that's what we're all trying to grapple with and that's certainly what the Bucs are trying to grapple with I will just say that before we even get to the mechanics of yeah We live in a virtual hard cap in the NBA for the first time right that the second apron has become this virtual hard cap in the NBA for the first time, right? The second apron has become this virtual hard cap. So it's gonna be hard to make a deal regardless considering how much Giannis makes

and what you need to get back for him. And this is the greatest player, you know, you've had in the modern era. How do you even account for, or try to, how do you try to even estimate what his value is? Like, are 10 first round picks enough? Or do you try to even estimate what his value is? Like are 10 first round picks enough? Or do you need multiple rotation guys plus a boatload of picks? Like I don't know how to measure that.

And you're also dealing with a really difficult market. But before we even get to that, it's what's the pulse on Janus? Because you're not trading them voluntarily. It's just like with Portland, where there are moments where Portland could have decided on their own, you know what, maybe we should just trade Dame, cash out, the era's over, let's start over, let's do this proactively, let's do it before he starts to slide. You don't do that in this league. You wait for the superstar to say, I want out, in part because you don't want to be

the person who voluntarily traded the greatest player in franchise history. So until and unless Yanis says it's time, guys, I don't expect it to happen. And I don't expect it to happen between now and the February trade deadline. I think if this thing is coming to an end, it will happen in the off season. And I wonder, here's what I wonder, I wonder what you think of this. If things are continuing down this road, and it's getting tense, and Janis isn't asking out yet, but the vibes are bad, you've got one more swing to try to salvage this. I'm trying to figure out what that is. Do you trade Dame? How much value does he even have on the trade market at this stage? I'm not sure of that. Because if it's not him, where else do you go with this?

Portis and Brook Lopez? Breaking up the final pieces of the old core? Middleton doesn't have any trade value considering his injury. I don't know what the move is in the near term if you're trying to do one more thing to salvage it. And it's not a coaching change because you already tried that like five times, three times, but you can't, you're not solving it by firing doc. No, you're not.

And if you look at Dame, he's 49 million this year, 54 million next year, player option, 26, 27 at 36 years old at 58 and a half million. I think it's worth even going back and looking at it because it's become very easy to just go, okay, well that trade was terrible. And I was listening to, I don't know if it was the Boston broadcast. It could have been where it was essentially like, I can't believe they traded Drew. Like what a huge mistake. And everybody loves Drew Holliday right now. So I think there's two parts of this.

One is, and we could even get into some of this Trey stuff because I brought it up with Dyson Daniels and it wasn't just because Dyson Daniels was incredible last night. And it's like, okay, let's let's trade Trey. I think it was because the off season just, you kept hearing the rumblings, they were going to have to split up the Trey DeJontay thing at some

point and they might be more likely to like move Trey. And then I think what they heard back is like, okay, this doesn't even make any sense for us and we have our superstar. At least we have this attraction in Atlanta that the fans are certainly behind. And that's probably good enough for what's likely going to be an around 500 team in the East.

So if you look at the Dane part of it, um, I get it. No, maybe, maybe basketball is collectively wrong, but general managers will always default to like, what can we do to raise our offensive ceiling? And bringing in Damian Lillard in the theory of Giannis and Dane when it's right in the playoffs completely changes what our ceiling is and Middleton's now the third option. Because I think the part that's really easy to forget with the Drew holiday story is twofold. There were plenty of games in those series where they needed him to score

with Milwaukee and he's not really that guy, like go back and look at some of those shooting numbers. And I think Bucks fans are probably listening to this part being like, thank fucking God, somebody finally said this. And when Drew is the fifth option for the Celtics and can take three shots and has the awesome defensive switch, hits the big three, saves the ball going out of bounds. Like that's, it's all positive for him. He's not ever going to be held to the same kind of standard that he was held in Milwaukee. So yeah, it hasn't worked.

And they were hurt going into the playoffs last year. And the coaching turnover is a mess. going into the playoffs last year. And the coaching turnover is a mess, but there's, there's real sensible basketball reasons they're in this position and sure they should have drafted, you know, they should have their, not even a Tyrese Maxey, but it'd be just nice to have like a really cool rotational guy that you know, you're going to extend to a nice number because you hit on one of those picks. And now you don't have control of all these different things. I guess the next time a GM has a chance

to be risky and add a high ceiling offensive player guy like Dane to change who they are, they're always going to do it because that's that I don't know. I mean you've been covering the league longer than I have and I've yet to meet the guy that's like yeah I'm gonna say no to that option. Well especially when you feel like you've already plateaued, right? They won a championship. They have been kind of slowly deteriorating ever since, you know, sometimes losing pieces of that championship roster, sometimes just guys getting older and getting injured, right? It's a combination of these things. And that's the battle that every team in this league faces, and especially the elite teams.

Look at where Denver is. And I look at the Nuggets and the Bucks through the same lens quite a bit, not only because they're two recent champions, but both of them have had similar struggles in just keeping together what made them special, right? And they both did it with a really thin margin for error is not the right term exactly, but bear with me. These are not super teams. We are past the super team era for the most part, even if Darrell is trying to revive

it in Philly and we'll see. But the Bucks and the Nuggets both had one supremely talented transcendent star, Yoko Chinyanis, and around them some guys who flirt with various levels of all star consideration middle ten and holiday. I jamal murray. These are not super team so your margin for error is is thinner. And you are you are essentially an ensemble around a superstar i talk about this all the time that is the model right now. In the nba and so if your superstar slips a notch, you're in trouble because you don't have another star in this model.

If you're supporting cast that was just so perfectly calibrated to the chemistry and the vibes were all great and everybody's played their role to the hilt. If any of those guys slip or you lose them, KCP, Bruce Brown, True Holiday, you're not the same team anymore. You're just not. And so the Bucks were already in their defense. The Giannis, Drew, Middleton, Lopez, Portis, Core had kind of peaked and was on the downward slide. And yeah, they needed drew that I'm so glad you brought it up. So they needed drew and his offense and his shot creation way more than the Celtics do. And, and they needed, they needed to do something. It was a big swing. I don't mind the swing. It has not worked out in the worst part of it is not even, well, I don't know. I was gonna

say the worst part is not even that Dame has, has not clicked as well there as you'd hoped. It's the fact that Drew went to Boston. It's both things, but also like, what were you going to do? Can you put conditions on a trade that by the way, you can't retrade this guy to our chief rivals in the East? Okay. Are you reading my mind here because this is the part of the GM job that I don't think people give any credit to.

I think smart people do, but it's just kind of like, oh, well you could do that. A lot of it is the relationship part of it. And if the two GMs have an awesome relationship, then maybe Horace can ask Cronin, if I do this, cause you gotta kind of be aware of all the moving pieces. Ted, have you ever heard that it was even discussed? Cause then again, too, if you're Portland, you go once he's

ours, you have no say. Yeah. I, I've not heard any rumblings that it would have been discussed. And I, and I'm skeptical that that conversation would happen or would be given much credence by the other GM. Right? Like if you're Joe Cron, you're like, dude, I've got a bit of a mess of my own here. I got a, I got a lot of stuff to figure out. I'm going to, I'm got a bit of a mess of my own here. I got a lot of stuff to figure out. I'm putting this guy up for the highest bidder.

I'm doing whatever I can. Just as- But if you're a horse, you go, okay, fine. Then now I'm not doing the trade. I mean, how badly do you want? Damn, I've got, listen, I got Miami on hold on the other line here. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, Portland had the power probably in the dynamic. I mean, maybe horse tried to do it. I would love to know if it, I mean, I think you have to ask, but it would be a really quick thing to go, you don't get to dictate the future transaction. Maybe I'm just thinking of age, we're doing this deal with Mikhail 15 years ago. It's a little different, right? Like if the roots run that deep and you could like ask your, your long time buddy and, uh, you know, fellow champion that you, you went through all the, the wars with and all that kind of stuff. Hey, do me a solid.

Just don't trade them to team X. Like, I don't know. I'm curious if that's ever happened. Like I'll be curious. Like I'll be, it has to have happened at some point. Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Probably.

But everybody acts out of self-interest in this league ultimately, right? And that's what you expect. Yeah, I can see Darryl saying absolutely, and then making sure that he did the trade. Let's talk Darryl. Let's talk about this Sixers team, because I put them in the bucket of like,

I don't know, you show me whatever stats you wanna show me. None of it matters, you get him beat back last night. It didn't look great to be expected. First real stuff that he's been in. So I don't have a drop of criticism in me for how he looked. But Nick Nurse has quite a task here and trying to figure this whole thing out because on paper they should still be a pretty good team.

So where are you with Philly right now? I, um, I have been trying to reassure Sixer fans, uh, that I know, um, that just everything's not everything's fine, but listen, the whole point of the exercise was get Paul George, have a big three in an era when no one has big threes anymore, as we were just discussing. And then let's see what happens. You're going to lose a little bit of depth and some flexibility

and all this other stuff. And boy, the back end of Paul George's contract, yada, yada. We haven't seen Maxie George and Embiid together yet. And so I feel like until we do, it's fair to just say take a deep breath. And I still feel that way. I've felt that way since opening night for them. Um, you know, and he didn't look great last night, but it was his first game since may 2nd, like that's six months. Like, yeah.

I mean, he played in the Olympics. I get it. But, um, different, different demands. Uh, I think not having maxie last night, not having Maxie in general right now is obviously a huge issue. What is Maxie? We got another week or so I think before he may be back. I think all the discussions of whether the

Sixers can live up to the hype of the offseason. And I certainly had them among the contenders in the East. can live up to the hype of the offseason. And I certainly had them among the contenders in the east. I don't think we can answer that question with any intelligence until Maxi Paul Georgian and Peter all playing together and

then it becomes okay cool are they dominant great can they spend 90% of the rest of the season together on the court so that they can. Revive themselves in the standings maybe have some sort of home court advantage to start the playoffs. And just get a rhythm too.

Incorporating Paul George is a significant task for them in the regular season. And we can't judge any of that until all three of these guys are healthy and playing for some length of time. Yeah, the maxi numbers are ugly, but I don't really blame them. And I think he came in and was like, okay, this is going to be on me to try to keep us above water here a little bit. And then, I mean, you want to talk about volume shots. I mean, if you played like that for an entire year, then I would think

about maxi a little bit different. I'm not worried. They're deep. No, I mean, Uberay has never been one of my favorites. He was terrific for him last year. Um, on the other side of that with the Knicks, like I just think the Knicks are going to figure this out, the Mitchell Robinson thing's a huge component of them giving you the different look when they need it.

I don't have the updated numbers in front of me. I meant to do that this morning, but the rim protection numbers for the Knicks when Kat was at the rim were awful, which is to be expected. I think it was 28 to 36 by opposing teams specifically when Kat was at the rim were awful, which is to be expected. I think it was 20 to 36 by opposing teams specifically when Cat was at the rim. There've been times this year where it's like, okay, it's a little turnstile-ish. However, last night, it's funny with Cat defensively, if it's right in front of him and it's a size, size thing, it's actually better than you would think. I thought that he had moments against Jokic in that series where he just,

you're not going to stop Jokic, but he's making him work. I thought he fought his ass off last night. It was almost funny because he and Embiid have all this history and then they were hugging it out after the game. So I don't know if that was just Embiid was so tired. They didn't want to talk to him or through some level of respect. I just, I love when it's right. Even with McBride who has become a guy now where like, do I just always go in with McBride?

Cause it feels like it. There's it even with Brunson's numbers down, can you just expect because of the opportunities with the depth around it? Yes. The rim thing is glaring. Maybe it's fixed within the roster. I know precious has been out too. I just like them even if it's not been maybe the star people expected.

Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a thousand different elements here, not least of which is that this team is kind of new when you think about it. Like you look out there and you go, oh, there's Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart, but like OG and Inobi came in, you know, two months or whatever it was into last season and that didn't play the whole time because of course He was hurt for quite a bit of it and didn't finish the playoffs Mikael bridges is new Carl Anthony Towns is new they don't have Isaiah Hartenstein and Dante DiVincenzo and I think let me just hit that for a minute for Cello I don't think enough attention has been paid as we've all talked about the Knicks We keep talking about who they got and whether Kat can can be a full time center until Mitchell

Robinson gets back. Will they have enough rim protection? All these things matter. Chemistry between Kat and Brunson, state of the offense, the depth. But the biggest concern I've had about this team since the summer was that losing Isaiah Hartenstein and they didn't really have much choice there, right? They did their best to try to keep him. He took the offer that he thought was better for him.

But like, you know, Devin Chenzel, they voluntarily gave him up in the trade, right? To get Kat. But Hartenstein was the guy they just couldn't keep. And the two of those guys embodied so much of what made the Knicks special last season. And not only them, obviously, like it's a collective thing. It starts with Jalen Brunson. Josh Hart is a big part of this. But when you think about the moments they had in the playoffs, the overachieving, the six man rotation, because nobody, no one's standing anymore. And D'Vincento is coming up with all these big shots and Hartnestein is grabbing seemingly every offensive rebound and creating

all these second opportunities and his playmaking. Those are things they have not been able to replace. So cat or no cat for all of cats flaws, Mikhail Bridges, Oh, hitching his jump shot. Oh, you know, can bridges be what he was in Phoenix and all that. I think a lot of this is about what they're missing and not so much what they're going to get from the new guys and give that some time to settle in I think. But I just wonder if there's a certain element here that you just can't replicate. Because Hartenstein brought things to the table that Kat can't do, that Mitchell Robinson can't do. And Mitchell Robinson's got to get healthy first.

And yeah, the bench is really thin. And yeah, McBride's looked great, but he's the only guy off the bench that I think Tibbs trusts for any length of time. And you know, for all the criticism of Tibbs and tight rotations, like I kind of don't blame him in this situation. Like I look at their bench and I'm not sure I'd trust any of them either. And you know, this is what happens when you go all in on a bunch of really expensive guys. And the last thought here is OG and Inobi played 41 minutes last night. And he's, it's not, it's not every night, but he played 41 and

cat played 38 and heart played 37. It's early in the season, but like Inobi and towns both have pretty extensive injury histories. Uh, they already have depth issues. I just, I would worry about their, their durability. Yeah. You're talking about tips in the short rotations. I would tell you at the beginning of the just, I would worry about their durability. Yeah. You're talking about Tibbs in the short rotations.

I would tell you at the beginning of the year, I think daddy A's 28 minutes on the season of the most surprising 28 minutes in NBA history, I was like, Holy shit, I was like, Tibbs is good. And I loved him for the draft. I was like, he's going to play him. And I, you know, I just, I mean, if there was a poster child of somebody that Tibbs would not be playing, it would have been him. And it was like, all right, let's roll it out there.

But you're right. Because like when I watched Dallas, even though they've gone through this stretch of the last week, I'm pretty sure everybody kind of knows what they're all supposed to be doing, so I'm not worried about Dallas. The Phoenix thing is, is cool because prior to the Durant part of it, I mean, he's playing about as well as anybody in the league and Beale was really good last night, but then I think left the game for, for that stretch against Utah. But I don't have a ton on, even though I watched it, uh, little sprinkle of

collier looking good out there, but I. I'll look at teams that are trying to find themselves and your OG point is perfect because they still didn't even have that. But at least they knew it was like, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to rebound the shit out of the ball with the guards and D'Vincent is never going to miss any

shots, but Brunson's probably taken like 20 plus and get in the line and everything's kind of around him. And the great thing is with the depth around it is that you shouldn't be asking Brunson to have to do that. But now it's something new and that new thing has not been identified yet. So I think that's a great point.

I wanna stay on that game only for the Embiid question. Have you ever been shoved by a player? Thankfully, no. No, but I will say about what happened between Joel Embiid and the Philly columnist Marcus Hayes, confrontations do happen. It's part of the job, right? If you're, now Marcus Hayes is a columnist, so he's not there every day with the Sixers. And so I don't know what the level of familiarity is between Sixer players and Marcus.

But as you know, I covered the Lakers for seven years, Shaq and Kobe era. I covered the Knicks for better part of nine years. When you're on the beat and you're in the locker room every day, and as a beat writer, you're much more news reporter than columnist, right? I'm not firing off hot takes, not that I ever really do anyway, but I'm not firing off hot takes and then walking in the next day to face the guy after I shredded him because we don't really do that. But I did write stories that are tough on these guys at times, or it was a choice of words, or it's just an observation about the way things are going and they don't like the portrayal. So things happen. Shaq got annoyed enough with me

one day at a shoot around in Dallas. I don't even remember what I, what I said or what the conversation was. The only time I got hands on me by Shaq was I annoyed him just enough that he playfully, I want to make this very clear, playfully reached down, picked me up and threw me over his shoulder like a sack of potatoes. And suddenly, and I've got my notepad and pen in one hand and my recorder in the other hand. And I'm like, basically looking at Shaq's ass because he's flipped me over his shoulder. And then he put me down after, you know, maybe twirling me around or something. I can't remember exactly what happened. It's all a blur and this was 20 years ago.

But that happened 25 years ago. So he just he picked you up. Was, I guess I'm like certain guys. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'm standing on the court in front of him. So yeah, just imagine him reaching down. I'm like the tad under six feet. I'm about 152 pounds or whatever.

He just reached down to just like, that was nothing to him. You just flip, flip, flip me over his shoulder. Um, I got off easier than, uh, Tim Kawak Kawakami, who at the time was at the LA Times, where Kawakami had a streak of asking Shaq questions that were just, Shaq was just in one of his funks. They happened a lot. So every day Shaq would be like, ask me a good question, ask me a good question. Actually, I was probably like, ask me a good fucking question. And Kawakami would just keep coming at him with whatever.

Tim never backed away from anybody. And one day Tim asked a question and Shaq does this mock thing where he like, he looks up and his face brightens and he went, Kawakami asked a good question. Kawakami asked a good question. And he jumps up and he grabs Tim in like this, basically Tim just disappears into Shaq

and Shaq starts pogo sticking him around the locker room. Again, playful, not, not a confrontation to the sense of shoving somebody. This was no one was threatened. No one was worried. Kawakami was not harmed, but, but that happened. But yeah, those are the only times Horace Grant at one point grabbed me from behind and scared the crap out of me because the we'd hit the zero mark on our locker room time pregame. So it was time for us to get out.

And usually a PR person says, Hey guys, time to go. Horace Grant just like bear hugged me from behind once to say it's, you know, but like picked me up kind of like, you got to go. But it's stuff like that. Like those, like that's as physical as it's gotten. That is a very different thing. Most of the conversations I've been involved in that were more tense were just guys like MFing me.

And then we talk it out. I want to end on Cleveland because I didn't have a game from last night. I did get to see them live in New Orleans. Shout out to the Smoothie King Center. Did you have a smoothie at the Smoothie King Center? I did not. I had one Coors Light though, and boy, did it taste good. Let's see. So we know they're number one in offense. They're eighth on defense. They're the best shooting team in the NBA right

now. They're doing all this without streus that was supposed to add to some of this stuff, but I think Garland coming back fully healthy, the Mitchell stuff being absolved, I still don't know that the Mobley Allen thing is ever going to look the way that I want to see it and, you know, watching him live, I was paying attention specifically to like how Mobley was setting up, like I wasn't even watching the ball for a while. Cause I was like, how do they play, you know, Mobley okays in the corner when Allen's in and it sucks, I like both players so much.

Fourth quarter minutes, you can look at those a little bit and how they're splitting it up a little. I think we both know it's hard for, they could be 40 and 0 and I probably still am gonna like Boston in the playoffs. But give me the sense of what you're willing to think is possible for the Cavs. Obviously, they're far exceeding everybody's expectations, but I will say of the thousands

of things I've already gotten wrong about this NBA season, I did pick Kenny Atkinson as my preseason coach of the year because I thought just knowing Kenny a little bit and given his background, you know, coaching under Mike D'Antoni here in New York, coaching under Steve Kerr and just kind of the offensive innovation aspect of this, I thought that Kenny might unlock some things. I think it's actually a lot more about all due respect to Kenny. I think he's done a great job, but I think a lot of this is like Garland's kind of taking a leap and it may not be a stratospheric

leap but like there's there's he's reaching another level there and even just in his confidence and I think some of that is him and Donovan Mitchell kind of figuring out their their on court relationship too like that was the one concern that I think everybody had when they got Mitchell was like well two smaller playmaking ball dominant guards not usually a recipe for great success in this in this league. And I think I think that's still an open question, but Garland looks really good. He looks really decisive, really confident. And that matters.

I think Mobley is looking pretty aggressive right now too, more so than I remember him being the last season or so. Okoro's become a really good three-point shooter and you know that matters and with Max Drus, you know, once he's back like they'll actually have some decent depth. 12-0 is always real in the sense that like winning 12 in a row at any point in the season, forget 12-0 to start a season. If you win 12 in a row at any point in the season, forget 12 and 0 to start a season. If you win 12 in a row at any point in NBA season, it's real. It doesn't mean you're a contender necessarily. You still have to assess how the Cavs stack up against the Celtics primarily.

And if they were to make it out of the East, how they stack up against whoever Oklahoma, Dallas, the Warriors, I don't know. But like there's still, and Cleveland's playing Boston a week from yesterday? Yeah, next Tuesday, I think. Like that's gonna be fascinating, but we'll put too much on it. It's only November, but I wanna see that.

We're doing a three hour special on it. And then we're gonna try to get Sam Merrill because we wanna just make sure that we shout out Bountiful's finest out of Utah. So yeah, we didn't even mention him in the breakdown. So we're gonna make sure we do that. You know, one of those guys, he's not just a shooter. Like look out if Sam gets you late in the shock pot, one on one open side.

Like he's gonna go at you. He's gonna go at you. He's a big fan of the PODs. So we want to make sure we mentioned him. That was, that was good. That was good. Cause the Garland thing is like the, do you want to go the you. He's a big fan of the pod. So we want to make sure we mentioned him. Uh, that was, that was good. That was good. Cause the Garland thing is like the, do you want to go the advanced jump on this?

A month in, not even a month in here is significant, especially from where he was last year, but I'd say it was trending more in line with who he was last season because there was the massive dip. I mean, if you look at the efficiency stuff, he's a completely different guy in 23, 24 than he was in the years prior to it. So I do think Kenny has unlocked some stuff and I think whatever, it was mild drama with Cleveland, but back to kind of the injury part of it when they went 17 and one through that stretch last year to remember, like there were guys missing in within that stretch. Yes.

So it wasn't like, okay, the entire group is here and this is what they, in a way it's actually a little bit more impressive, but I think all the Cleveland topics from last season, we, they were not even doing them anymore because Kenny is there, Mitchell is signed, Garland is healthy and hopefully the health remains and I can't wait until next Tuesday against Boston. And I can't wait, the real ones with Howard back in on the line up with Roger Bell out multiple times a week here on our Ringer podcast network. So thanks man. Appreciate it.

Howard. Thank you. Appreciate it. I am so dreading groceries this week. Why you can skip it. Oh, what? Just like that. Just like that.

How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices? Er, nope. You're on your own there.

Could've skipped it. Should've skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on Skip. and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on skip. Interior Chinatown is an all-new series based on the best-selling novel by Charles Yu about a struggling Asian actor who gets a bigger part than he expected when he witnesses a crime in Chinatown streaming November 19th only on Disney+. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Disney Plus. Let me tell you what's required. You know, it's good vibes on the pod today. I don't know what it is. No reason for them potentially, but I have them and Kyle looks trim and fit.

And I wonder. Thanks. What'd you do? Getting the links today. I'm excited. Oh yeah. I putter got fucked up yesterday. I got two.

It's tough. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know. I know. I don't mean to do this to you, but can I have the better putter back? No, I'm just kidding. Never do that. But I did, you know, the rare undo the golf bag

on the golf cart move that buddies do to each other. Then I think they stop around 35, but. What, so that it falls off when you pull off or something? What? I somehow did it to myself. Oh. And fucked up two clubs. Wow. Wow. Well, it's the last time

I do this. I showed up no warm up. I was on the phone with our staff. And no offense, Kyle, you weren't on the call. It would be a waste of time. I'm sure you were. Yeah, I'm sure you were thrilled you weren't on it. And then I just didn't give myself any sort of window to stretch or anything frantic on the phone, get the tee time, go up to the guy, the ranger to check me in, whatever. And then I didn't have any balls that were available,

so I had to undo everything and then slice a driver 280 yards to the right and then go back to the cart to be like, Jesus Christ, this is such a terrible start. And then I pulled off and then fucked up my clubs. And then a guy, this is a pretty reckless course. Then a guy pulled up like three holes in with, I think a fairway wood, a putter and two wedges. Was like, I'm just going to play it few holes. Oh, okay. No, he was like, no, yeah, yeah. Good instincts. He was like, I'm just going to play with you guys for a little bit. I'm like, I'm just going to play with you guys for a little bit. Like, okay.

Jesus. Yeah. But I was by myself, so I didn't, I wasn't a ruling class moments. Yeah. Ruin two clubs. Fucking psyched, but I'm still in a good mood. So that's how resilient I am. So Rudy can't believe it. He just did an eye roll. Like I would have usually.

For a couple of days, they would have. I just, I just love've. I just love that, I just love that golfer Cello is here and he's excited. You're a happier person because of it, because for so long you used to hate the golf talk, and I don't hate it at all, but now we're just letting it fly and I love it. I hated it on radio interviews when we had eight minutes.

Fair. We have more time, we can get into our golf endeavors, I guess. But have you ever in your life cared if fucking Lynn Swan is splitting the fairway? No. Yeah. The old hit him straight partner on the way out. Yeah. No, I don't. I don't. We don't need that. I'm with you, but it's just funny. Come full circle. You're right. And I just did it, but it's a podcast. So I think we're allowed to kind of go wherever. But yeah, Kyle looks really good. Do you play in a private course today? What's going on? No, no just doing a I'm usually a public guy tape Frazier will bring me to brain my every once in a while

but today we are hitting hitting the bell I Can't wait. Oh Balboa. Sorry gotta keep him straight here Balboa Okay, all right. All right. Well, let's get to some emails here. Uh, first and foremost, thanks to everybody. Murr 1600, Wesley Snipes, not Denzel. Um, okay. It's been a while since I've seen that movie. I mixed up my dudes. I loved Denzel back in the day. No, everybody loved Denzel. I saw somebody was doing like, there was a top five Denzel movies making the rounds yesterday and I was looking at everybody's lists and like

inside man for me has to be on there it's probably it's definitely a top I don't know if it's number one it was definitely top five so anyone who didn't have that on there was immediately out. Inside man? Oh yeah love inside man. Clive Owen. Love Clive Owen. Sneaky, sneaky career not sneaky but like more more bangers than you think for Clev. I agree. Even mentioned underrated director. Yeah. I mean, Kim director is the children of men.

One of the most underrated movies of the last however many years. Okay. But wait a minute, right there. That's so great. I love that. What does that even mean? I don't know. I can't really put my finger.

It is a great movie, but it's like one of those, I don't know. It just makes sense that you would, that you would say that. Wait, did you just Wesley Snipes Denzel? Like the way I Denzel Wesley Snipes? In what way? I think so. Who do you think is an inside man? Oh, were you saying man? Did you mean man on fire? No, Denzel is definitely in that one.

Inside man is Clive Owen and Denzel Washington. Okay. I thought perhaps when I said I love Wesley Snipes and you were like, who doesn't then it just pivoted right back into Denzel. Oh no, no, no. Okay, all right, I was gonna say. All right, well, I just didn't want it to happen all over again. Somebody was like, yeah, isn't Flip Wilson in that?

Be like, what's going on with you guys? All right, let's get to a couple emails, help lives. So we had one of these, I like these when they're actually quick and efficient. I was listening to the guy talk about the blessing he has of walking away from the corporate world. Earlier than most, I wanted to share my perspective. I'm a financial planner and many of my clients

are leaving law firms, accounting firms, or other corporate jobs where you work a lot of hours. I find that people retire early only to end up working back in their field within five years. Not because they need to financially, but because they are all caps bored. You can only travel so often, play so many rounds of golf, et cetera,

especially when you don't have other retired friends. What I recommend to clients is they make a list of things they love, things they like, and things that they hate. Once they create the list, go through the different topics to figure out activities associated with those. It sounds really cheesy,

but I find that it helps clients identify passions that they can follow while retired. For some, it's opening a small baking business because they love to bake. I have a client who works twice a week as an usher at his local minor league baseball stadium because he loves baseball. Usher though?

I don't know. Yeah. I'm just surprised the minor league baseball stadium because he loves baseball. Usher though? I don't know. Yeah. I'm just surprised the minor league plays is like, then they asked him to work 80 hours a week, then next week. He was making sales costs. He died, but he got a jacket. The key is finding something that will make you stimulated,

keep you getting out of bed in the morning and continuing to reevaluate as your retirement progresses. Sorry for the long email, not a long email, great email, and we appreciate it. Kyle, what would you do? This is what we should have done. Kyle, retirement Kyle, game it out for us, Wams Gans style. Well, I think I said this last episode

like strictly ride along lawn mowers. I'm not doing the edges. There's no weed wh whackers in my truck. It's just that. I'm popping in my headphones and I'm going to work. I'll be out of here in an hour. And we're doing the next house. I think that may be what I would do.

I watched too much Bar Rescue to think I could casually open up a bar and just enjoy it. And honestly, I'd probably be the guy when John Taffer walks through the doors and I'm sitting there with like, yeah, that guy's gonna get yelled at because they've been watching him drink in this bar, having a good time all day.

And then John Taffer is gonna start screaming at me, he's six beers in. So I don't think, it's a nice idea, but I don't think I could pull it off. You'd have to get super lucky for it. Be like, yeah, we opened a bar and it's been great for eight years and getting ready to sell it.

I think I'd have to, I'd have to aim lower. The amount of money that I would pay to watch John Taffer show up to Kyle's bar to rescue is you can't come up with a number high enough. You think you were going to survive on poppers and the cigarette machine? You think you were going to survive on poppers in the cigarette machine? I really wonder what it feels like when he's screaming so much that he's like gurgling and there's like all of your, you know, your 15 regular customers that are keeping you afloat or just watching it. I really wonder what it's like to be that guy.

How many beers is that? You're killing your family. Yeah. Yeah. You let your mother put 60,000 in. How do you sleep at night? You know, but the thing is, is I think, and then he would do the pivot to the emotional healing after the tough love. It's a formula.

It's definitely a formula. He would pull you aside and be like, so let me get this straight. The place you worked at previously, your uncle wouldn't hang out with you. And then the other pod that you were previously your uncle wouldn't hang out with you And then the other pod that you were on the host never hung out with you And then he puts his arm in your shoulder. You've had a lot of rejection in your life. Haven't you? Look I'm looking forward to the the last five minutes of the episode is like four days ago. Do you think we'd be here? It's a nod that Kyle is doing right now is so,

it's the best taffer I've ever seen and you don't even have the voice down. Thanks. That taffer nod that you just threw at us, that was like AI. Yeah, it's the wide eyes, you gotta tilt the head a little bit. Yeah.

Very intense. Right, I think there's guys that wanna throw hands with taffer, but when he does the nod and his eyes are all over the place and he's sorta of talking to nobody and he's like Schenectady, he's like the Dutch, he's like, let's start making waffles here. We're going to wrap pint glass waffles. He goes, that's something locals would be interested in, wouldn't they? And he's not looking at anyone and no one's saying yes.

They're like, we're fucking opening up an entire place based on waffles because of Dutch immigration? Right. Tony P's taffered is now like the cobble pot or something. You're like, ah, yeah, right. Right. And there's some guy with a mop in the corner, like nodding and eating, speaking English, just going like, yes, maybe.

I can't, I have a love hate thing with taffer, but that's the old bartending thing in me. I respect the hustle in the show and all that. So I'm not, I'm not hating on it, but I think I even fucked with the show a couple of times on Twitter and somebody from the show tweeted back at me that they totally got what I was doing, so I respect.

But God, I think we need to do, Kyle, like we gotta figure out a way to monetize that taff or not that you just threw at us. He posted something on Twitter the other day, like clearly the shows come out Sundays, by the way seasons back Where he was he's on a private lane not he's like looking out the window and the caption was like somewhere some someplace right now a bar is feeling the heat. All right good. Oh I'm on it good cuz that ex knew ex knew that was for me, even if I wasn't plugged in. I retweeted it too.

Maybe you saw it through our connection. Maybe that's what it was. That could have been it. You're welcome. All right, we still haven't read one email yet. So 10 minutes. We can probably use some help. Okay.

This is a good one. Okay, my boyfriend stopped wearing deodorant. I'm a five foot one female woman. We love you. No real gym stats, but I run to stay in shape. My boyfriend loves the pod. He saves all the life advice segments so we can listen together. So be fun. A bit of a backstory. My boyfriend and I, what's that? This'll be fun then. Yeah. Enjoy buddy. A bit of a backstory.

My boyfriend and I have been living together for two and a half years. Back in May he got a new job that's remote so he's had a transition to a work from home lifestyle. I wonder if the divorce rate has gone up with work from home. It must have. That's not even debatable. Don't even throw me your one bedroom apartment. Your SAG number. Do you know how much you have to like somebody to work from home and be in a one bedroom and be in the city? Didn't somebody do that and then bought two, a second cat. And the guy was like, am I in the wrong? We're like, fucking pack up.

Um, because he doesn't really see anyone except for me. Most days he stopped wearing deodorant on a daily basis. He really only puts it on if we were going to see our friends or if we were going to a restaurant bar. Honestly, I didn't really notice the first couple months, but now when I get home from work, I can definitely smell him when he's standing next to me. He's a very health conscious person, probably the cleanest eater I've ever met, and he works out twice a day.

Twice a day? What is this guy, Sosa? I wonder he stinks. Yeah, he claims it's better for his health if he doesn't use deodorant because they're full of chemicals. I saw a thing on Mouthwash the other day that made me think I was going to die in a week. So I don't know. I don't know. When I went to LA, I forgot deodorant. And so I had to go to the CVS and it's obviously locked up. So I had some time to process what I should buy. And they had a thing up that was aluminum free.

So I Googled it and I was like, damn, if've been put on like stuff that's killing me for like my whole life with this aluminum deodorant thing so I bought the non-aluminum one and it was terrible it was awful. Terrible. Yeah it didn't work like it even just like the the texture of it was off so it is bad for you but I don't know I guess you just got a it's kind of a trade-in. Yeah you look too hard at anything you start finding reasons so that's how I look. Yeah I don't I don't know what to do with any of this info. Because if you really want to dig into it, it's kind of like stats for anything or like political arguments. Like do you want to find something that will make something look bad? Well, here you go. Here's the internet. Get to work

and you can be bummed out by lunch. You can be devastated, right? So I don't, would you rather live until 85 and smell or stink and live until 78? 78's a long time. Yeah, I would agree. Being known as the guy who stinks is just like, that's just, I'd rather die early. I'm gonna be honest. Guy in high school, his name's Smelly Chris.

That's a tough one. Oh man, yeah. He beat Smelly Chris in high school. Yeah. Smelly Chris, what's he up one. Oh man. He's Smelly Chris in high school. Yeah. Smelly Chris. What's he up to? I think we all know. Stinkin'. Yeah. So as this was playing out, I started thinking, well, aren't there options? But Saru just test drove on for a little while and it didn't work out.

Let me finish the email and then you can give us your full non-chemical breakdown. He claims he's better for his health, which I don't necessarily disagree with, but I have to like sleep next to him and I'd rather not smell his BO. We have an ongoing joke about it with our friends and family because it is kind of funny. So God, they really get along. Uh, so he can't be shamed into like not doing this.

He's already being shamed. Yeah. We need to settle this debate and we've agreed that whatever you say, we'll go with, should he put on deodorant if he's worked from home or should I get used to his natural aroma his words. This guy's clever too. I would say just put some deodorant on man but how would you feel if she stunk? Yeah, wait a second. So wait, are you ruining the fucking bed too, man? Like, that's, you know, that's not good. I was gonna say that stinks, but that was too on the nose.

Like, you know, on the couch watching something together and you're like, oh yeah, I did it again. But if you're like on the couch watching something together and you're like, that's gross. But the bed is supposed to be kind of a safe space. And if he's getting in the bed- Maybe showering. Maybe showering before it.

Two showers a day guy? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Yeah, I'm glad that they agreed whatever we say goes because I was building all this stuff in my head, like, oh, you could walk in, you know, come home, be like, ooh, what's that smell? But that's not the first thing you want from your partner when they get home is like, it fucking stinks in here.

So I'm glad that they decided to skip all that. Yeah. I say, I'd say you just have to agree on the deodorant. Maybe both sides take a vote and, uh, and we'll, we'll help if we can. But I think that's the, that's the thing. Or you just gotta take two showers a day, but you can't just say this, you know, even that by now, Joe Rogan says I'll be healthier if I don't ever put deodorant on like, or whoever said it, like, just, do you get a lot of your

grooming advice from Joe Rogan? Oh, you're asking me? No. Yeah. No, like whoever said it. Like just. Do you get a lot of your grooming advice from Joe Rogan? Oh, you're asking me? No. Yeah. No, I'm actually curious. I was not a joke. No, I cherry picked the guests. I don't really know what's going on at large.

So what happened with you, Saruti? You're not a smelly guy though, in general, are you? Nope, I'm not. I always say I don't think I am, but so my mother-in-law is like a big, like earthy, crunchy, you know, all she's been organic for a long time buys like all these different products and foods and she bought like all of us this Natural quote-unquote deodorant, which is just like bullshit. Like it just doesn't doesn't work it actually and sometimes makes you smell worse I feel like and So like I'm on board with like, you know, the micro plastics, they're a problem.

Like I get it. Like I don't know what to do about it. We got rid of cutting boards. Sounds like it's too late for us. Yeah, it probably is. It's, it does sound like that. It's like it's too late for us. You got to chuck the cutting boards, they're gone.

Chuck the cutting board. We got wooden cutting boards. Now you can get wood in your food too, but I guess that's the lesser of two evils. What else have we done? I mean, like the aerosol stuff, we try not to buy that because it's bad for the environment, but there's only so much you can do.

Like there's only like what you have to live life. You have to exist as a person in life. And if you're going to stink as a human being and impact other people's days, including the person that you love, can you just make a little bit of concession? Can you just maybe put it on every once in a while? You don't even have to do it every day, just every once in a while. Um, or just like mix in the two, mix in one that's like more natural and mix in a real one Like I just feel like you can't you can't walk around stinking

You can't do that because not only is your girl not gonna like it She doesn't like it But you know God forbid that doesn't work out and she ends up breaking up you because of this like people don't like smelly people So I think you got it. You gotta make it. Yeah, so I think you gotta make a concession here dude, I'm sorry. Like I'm glad that they've decided that whatever we decide goes and you know, if she doesn't like this, then you kinda gotta wear deodorant, man. It's already a joke that lands in like multiple circles in his life. It's already a joke that people are all like, yeah, that's something to do.

He's not ashamed apparently. I know, I know. Doesn't care. You gotta get it, you gotta just do this for them. You don't have to get it. It sounds like you're not gonna get it, you don that's not ashamed apparently. Yeah, I know. Doesn't care. You gotta get it. You gotta just do this for them. You don't have to get it. It sounds like you're not gonna get it. You don't have to get it.

Just trust everyone else on this one. Just, I'm gonna buy deodorant today actually. If I die, I die. All right. Wife is a serial waster. Let's run through this one. High wise counsel, young dad. So my only relevant gym stat as I continue showing up with the 5 a.m. grind.

So he doesn't have any stats he wants to share, but his only stat is he's getting there at 5 a.m. to put in the work, love it. I'm writing you to address an area of frustration with my wife who've been married a little over three years, have a solid marriage overall, but one thing that really grinds my gears is she's a serial, note the spelling, waster.

I'm talking food, coffee, various drinks, et cetera. There are constantly cups of coffee left out, three quarters full, protein shakes as she only takes a few sips from, fill her car floor. That's so fucking gross. That's tough. Not great. Water bottles are one thing, but that's tough.

Well, dude, anybody that's ever mixed up some protein and then forgotten about it, and I don't know why you wouldn't finish it all. What's the point of making it? If you just gonna waste the protein. That's not cheap. Yeah. But I mean, you want like aliens, the sequel, you open up your car and you're like, what happened in here? It's like how the last of us started. It's great. Yeah. Your peanut butter hazelnut. Fuse. We constantly throw away leftovers. She just didn't feel like eating. And yes,

our closet is full of clothes and shoes that she doesn't wear. We have a kid in daycare, which is expensive. So every time I see her wasting something, it adds to my frustration and stress about money. How do you recommend I address this? Lightly. But the thing is, she doesn't really get it, man. I mean, I know address this? Lightly. But the thing is, she doesn't really get it, man. I mean, I know who this person is. I mean, it can border on selfishness to like an even more nefarious thing where there's certainly the retail element of the anticipation of the order, the excitement that the order is placed, the figuring out of how soon the order is coming and then when it shows up and it's all so empty, it doesn't

really mean anything. What's awesome is acquiring things that you're going to use and that you love. This is incredible. You should have to have some rule, especially as you get a little bit older and the closet gets full. It's like, I'm not buying something just to buy something anymore. I have to be in love with this. Um, the coffee thing is like fine, right?

The protein thing is sort of gross, but when it starts coming into like significantly wasting money, maybe don't break down the boxes for a month and don't say anything, and then she'll see the visual of all the boxes that have to be broken down and see that it looks like a warehouse from Raiders of the Lost Ark and she'll just go, Oh no, like what am I doing? But if she's not looking at the credit card bill, maybe you could do the bills with her if you're not already doing that. At this point I run into this, um,

I hear about this from both parties all the time with my married friends, where you think you'd want to just stop spending anything once you started having kids and making stuff a little bit easier, the food and the leftovers like, Hey, I'll get this wrapped up. Then I'll eat it. Like to me, it's not great, but like that's far more excusable. The coffee cup thing is far more excusable. Um, then some of the more, I don't want to call it hoarder mentality because

that's not necessarily what you're saying, but knowing how that works. There's a difference between just being wasteful with the food and the coffee. The equator of this then becomes the acquisition and the value of possessions that are essentially worthless to your day to day, but you can't help but think that you're losing when you don't have the possessions anymore, even if you're not really using them. So I don't know if that's where you're veering into there, but that turns like that starts to become something that you feel like you're never going to be able to defeat.

And I hope that's not the case for you because it sucks. Yeah. I think you might have to, I've got a like touch of this in my life. It's mostly with like leftover food and stuff. And I changed my thinking on it, because at first I was like, look, it's not fair. I'm doing the right thing here and you're not.

Look at this. This is the last four times we went out to dinner. You didn't do anything with it. And then I was just like, like you said, Ryan, she doesn't get it. She's not doing it on purpose. It's just a thing that it's a part of the way this household works and I can bitch about it or I can resent it or I'll just go in there and throw it out.

So like, you know, that's just the one fridge thing. Maybe what you could do is just start grabbing her cup of coffee when you know she's not done with it yet and just be like, oh, I was just getting ahead of it. You know, I mean, maybe that's not the healthiest way to go about it. Yeah, the fuck with her approach that we've talked about with the college roommate thing. Yeah, I mean, this is the college roommate thing all over again where you can just start taking her cups and stacking them on her vanity. Well, no, I meant just putting it in the dishwasher

and just be like, you know, I'm just trying to get ahead of this or whatever, but that could be maybe viewed as passive aggressive, but I changed my outlook on some of the stuff because it would drive me crazy. And she's great, I like her, love her in fact. So it's just like, am I gonna let this get to me? You could do that in another way,

like you should go through the garbage bag, throw a couple of your shirts in there, and be like, hey, I'm getting a donation bag together. What do we got in this closet? Just like doing it in a helpful way, rather than it's like, really? Another fucking sweatshirt? So I think there's just smart ways to approach it.

Maybe we were talking to Inception recently, make it seem a little bit like her idea or that you need help with something. I'm trying to think what we should do to throw out some of these whatever. How do we cut down? Yeah. Yeah, I just don't know which one we should get rid of.

What are your thoughts? Tell her you wanna move to a different house. Then she gets all excited and she cleans up because it'd be easier to move. But just kidding. I can't afford it. Yeah. Number is crunched. The number is not going to work out. Uh, I'm with you, Kyle. I've, we've gotten into a really bad and I say, we, it's not me. It's my wife lover, but we've been just kind of like very wasteful with food recently and it to be honest with you really pisses me off Like it really pisses me off. I don't like food waste hot seat. I'm the leftover

No, it's not hot seat and it has nothing to do I mentioned you you mentioned like, you know working from home thing. We both kind of work from home and it's fine we don't live in a one-bedroom apartment, so that's that probably helps but you know, like we'll go to Trader Joe's right and You know she, perfect example, there's like a pizza salad, it's like new, it looks cool on this thing, and I'm like, are you gonna eat this? We're gonna eat this?

And she's like, yeah, no, I wanna try it, I'm gonna eat it. Guess what's been in the fridge for like a week now? The pizza salad, it's bad, it's gone bad. Like this is kind of, so I always bring it up to her, I'm like, hey, like another good example, wanted to make sandwiches, she bought these awesome pretzel buns, but they only come in a six pack

and she only wanted one sandwich. Now we got five pretzel buns in the fridge and guess who has to eat the rest of the pretzel buns? I do. Or they're gonna throw them out. Yeah, they have a longer shelf life. I think I gotta get some pretzel buns out of my bread box today.

And I've had three pretzel buns this week. That's like five days ago. Check the endocytes for mold. Yeah, not good for you. And I, and I only say this to say like, I'm anti pretzel bun. This is all. No, no, no. I'm very proud. So there's a time and a place to grab a pen. They're bad for you. I mean, they're not good for you. I would think on the scale, like from deodorant to pretzel buns, like,

no, I know, but I'm just saying we, we, we, we buy in bulk and we end up throwing a lot of stuff out and it kind of bums me out. I'm just saying we buy in bulk and we end up throwing a lot of stuff out and it kind of bums me out. I'm going to be honest. So I am typically pretty forward with her about it. Now we have our relationship is fine. So I kind of- Tight ship over there, huh, Kyle?

No, listen, I do plenty of shit that sucks too. I'm not saying it's her. This guy gets promoted to manager. No, he's riling me up a little bit and I'll tell you what I've done is I've broken up the grocery trips where I'll be like, hey, just give me a list. I'll go. I throw in a podcast and actually, you know, I don't have a lawn to mow. So maybe going up and down those grocery aisles is a little therapeutic for me as well. We've cut down on the weird yogurts that are, aren't going to be eaten.

Like we've cut down on that. Like I know Greek sounds better, but you don't like it better. So like, you know, those things, but do you want to eat it? Yeah. Yeah. So, and you said like, you know, hey, maybe be a little passive aggressive about a cow or you just be aggressive. Do you just straight up like for a whole month, you just tally and take photo evidence of all of the shit that she's left together a dossier. You slap the laptop in front of her, open up the file and here's here's the whole month of stuff that's happened.

Cause I don't think that John Dio- Oh, presumed innocent too? We call him car tender and you see the amount of, this household is hemorrhaging money. Where's your point of sale, Kyle? You can have anything left for these kids. Who's Doug and why has his tab been unpaid for six weeks? Wow, Kyle, how about Sarutti, man? Here's what I would say.

This was therapeutic for him, I could tell. It was. But I think sometimes you need to let your lady friend grab a pretzel bun. That's what I would say. One is fine. Six? Yeah. Six. We don't need six. It's like, hey, I'm making chicken salad. Then there's like a whole vat of chicken salad

and it just sits in there for a week. If we did a bathroom book, that line would for a week. Cause you'll need it. We did a bathroom book that that line would be in it. Sometimes you gotta let your lady get a pretzel. But you're just thinking about like anyone I've ever cared about, like actually cared about in my life. And if we were grocery shopping together and she turned me that smile and she was like,

Oh my God, I want to try these so bad. I couldn't be like, are you going to fucking waste the other five? Like even me. Yeah. It's not an isolated incident. I know what the future is going to be. It's the pizza salad laid the foundation

for the pretzel bun. Well, I've caught myself doing that too. And then like being like, dude, relax. And it's like, yeah, get that weird soup. Go for it. Go for it. But if we do that every time, it's gonna drive me nuts.

But you can fall into that thing where you're just like, wait, am I really being like a tyrant in Ralph's right now? All right, let me like- I don't know, I get pissed at myself sometimes. Like sometimes I see those golden Oreos and I'm like, goddamn, those taste so good. And then I get them and I'll have like two. And then you're like, you're not eating.

Like this isn't what you do. You just don't sit around and smash Oreos. You know, you have a brand to fucking uphold here. Four app guy. Four app guys. You got a show in Denver live soon. We talked about that. Yeah, I got a live show in Denver.

Who knows with the altitude, what kind of angles. Tell you what, not packing any fucking cashmere. All right, that'll do it for the show. Sarudy had something else. I'm sorry. I do have more, but whatever. No, no, you have more. We want you to get, because we know you have extra,

everything he's got in the hopper there. Come on. No, the only thing I want to add is like, you guys do the fridge clean out every like couple months or so, right? No, no, a couple months. It's depressing. I'm doing weeks, buddy.

Weeks. It's depressing. It's like, man, I wasted all this shit. I didn't need to buy this. It is depressing. You're right. Japanese barbecue sauce wasn't the shit. I didn't need to buy this. It is depressing. You're right. Japanese barbecue sauce wasn't the move. I bought it.

Used it one time. Didn't even know asparagus could turn into a liquid. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, the slime at the bottom of the veggie drawer. I hope we helped. Hope we helped. All right, thanks to Wargon.

Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Saru to the Ryan Russo podcast on YouTube as well. Check out that page and subscribe right here on Ringer Spotify. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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