The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Warriors GM Bob Myers on a Decade With Steph, Klay’s Progress, and How the Young Guys Fit In

Episode Date: December 17, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the Chiefs' win over the Chargers and analytics pushing teams to gamble on fourth down rather than settle for field goals (0:29). Then Ryen talks with longtime GM of the Golden State Warriors Bob Myers about Steph Curry's 3-point record, deciding to extend Curry's contract in 2012, the much-anticipated return of Klay Thompson, developing young players like Jonathan Kuminga, James Wiseman, and Jordan Poole, and more (13:21). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (57:08). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Bob Myers Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I am really excited about this podcast. Not the NFL Open. That's a C plus B minus. Life advice is great as always. But we have Bob Myers, GM of the Warriors. 45 minutes. The Steph part of this. Clay coming back.

All the young draft picks. How they fit in. This is awesome. You're going to enjoy it. Before we get to the Bob Myers portion of today's podcast, I want to start with last night, a great, entertaining NFL game on a Thursday. And there's plenty of people that will look through it and say, you know, we really probably complain about Thursdays too much

because it's the only game that we're watching where we have just as many games that are bad on Sundays, but it's not the only one. So that's why it kind of gets lost in it. But in this case, we all won, right? Kansas City won a shootout against the Chargers. Mahomes won because, and we'll get to what he did towards the end of that game, because with Mahomes, whenever it doesn't look perfect, it's like Steph Curry missing a three. You're like, how did he miss? I expect it to go in every single time.

It's like Steph Curry missing a three. You're like, how did he miss? I expect to go in every single time. I think because of who Mahomes has been and some of the stuff that he has on his resume, we expect him to be a superhero every single time and for stretches during this regular season, despite this Chiefs run, which again, we will get to, there have been moments where he looks human.

I mean, even that pick to Nwusu, where that's a defensive end batting a ball up in the air and you think, okay, great defensive play. He jumped the route on this kind of pass out to the flat, and then he catches it. Nobody makes that interception, right? No. Defensive linemen, linebackers, a little bit more likely,

but defensive ends making that kind of interception, it doesn't quite happen. So you're thinking, like, what the hell? Like, what's going on? He had to throw to Mecole that went into the dirt, where he said he didn't grip the football right. He missed Kelsey on another one. So he had these moments, and you're going, do I have to?

And I don't want to do that. I wasn't going to do it on a Friday anyway, despite whatever the outcome was. I'm sure if the Chargers pulled that game off, you'd have some corners going, ah, this is my homes. I'm not quite sure because I've always been all in on it throughout it, even when it looked not to the standard that we'd expect because the standard has been absurd in the past.

Down 24-0 to Houston in the playoffs a couple years ago, they outscored the Texans 51-7. Who does that? Mahomes does that. They were down to Tennessee. Granted, it wasn't 24-0. And then they were down in that Super Bowl and their win against San Francisco, where you're like, wait, is he going to lose this game?

Nope, he's going to figure it out. He's a superhero at the quarterback position, and I think he reminded us of that, and that's why I just have a very hard time doubting him. Mahomes won. KC won. Football fans won. Did Math lose, though? Did Math lose?

A lot of fourth downs. I think four possessions for the Chargers inside of the five scored once at one point. Here's the deal with the fourth down stuff, and I've been critical of it as an absolute because I just don't believe there's really absolutes in almost anything, and I also don't like arguing the exceptions. But as we know, if you're going to follow the analytic path,

you have to stick to it. You can't just kind of pick and choose. The only time I think that it does lead to some mistakes and you're not rewarded for the failure is when you go for it at the end of a half, like the Chargers did again last night. When you go for it on fourth down and then you don't convert and half is basically over, you're not being rewarded with your risk of also having amazing field position and probably the scoring probability that follows your next possession because it's likely that a team that's backed up at its own one or two yard line isn't exactly going to move the football 98 yards.

Yes, it does happen. It doesn't happen that often. So I don't mind going forward and forth and goal in most situations when it's that close to the goal line, but I don't love kind of giving away the advantage of that defensive possession after it if you don't get it. So the math part of it is always very aggressive. And baseball was at the forefront of this where it wasn't so much the baseball math. It was just that the math people told you if you didn't buy into what they were doing, that you were a fucking moron, right? It got like nasty. And it was almost like the old soccer guy analogy that I use. It wasn't so much soccer. It

was that soccer guy was telling me I was stupid all the time. So then it made you kind of root and not like soccer or root against soccer and not like it. So in this case, it's a victory lap for the people that don't like the math, but there's more streamlining of this than I think even any of us realize unless you spend a lot of time kind of reading about it. And like I've said, there's times with college teams where I go, okay, cool. I know what the numbers say on two-point conversions. I know what the numbers say on fourth and this distance at this situation and how it changes your win probability, but can you block anybody? Have you blocked anybody for 45 minutes? Oh, you haven't?

Well, maybe those numbers don't apply to you right now based on this matchup, but I was looking at the next-gen stuff, and you can go and look at their entire fourth-down decision-making process and the formulas and all the numbers that go through it. There's a piece up. You can find it right now. It takes two seconds. Week 15, last season, Texans-Colts. Colts have the football fourth quarter, 321 remaining. Score is tied 20 apiece. It is fourth and inches.

So the field goal is 54 yards in this case. And if you kick the field goal, you have a 42% chance of making the field goal. Okay, not great there. If you go for it, you have an 81% chance of getting the first down, running the clock, and putting yourself in an even better position based on distance here. So if you go for it and then convert at 81 percent chance, your win probability goes from basically 69 percent to whether a field goal goes in or not, which is a less than a 50% proposition at 56%. So basically,

you're looking at something that I have an 81% chance of converting, giving me a path to a 69% win probability versus 56% on a field goal that's less than 50. And again, win probability I make fun of just because of how often it shows that it's 99%. This other team was going to win. And then you're like, hey, they lost again. So maybe these aren't as cool as you think. But specific to the fourth down stuff, this is what a Brandon Staley is looking at every single time. This is why the numbers when teams are down 14 and go for two on the first touchdown,

and a lot of us are like, what the hell are they doing? Why wouldn't you just make it simple with the back-to-back extra points? This is what the numbers tell you over and over again. Now, I do think there are plenty of games where I'm watching them going, I don't know that I love this call based on what I've seen in the game to that point. But in this case last night, I don't really have a huge problem with anything other than the end of the half going for it because, again,

you're not getting that defensive possession. But it was a real weird kind of math argument for everybody last night. The other thing that we learned from last night is what this says about quarterbacks. And what you're always looking for if you have one of these draft picks is you're hoping you get a guy that can carry a team. And the list just isn't very long.

There are a lot of guys putting up big numbers. And one of the things I liked about Burrow was in that game a couple weeks ago against the Chargers where there was plenty of time left, but they needed two scores. And I think a lot of quarterbacks would have taken their time, gotten their numbers, moved the football, taken the easy throws without realizing, I actually need to kind of score in two or three minutes here and not use up six of eight minutes.

And I think that's a big difference from the guys that can carry a team and who can't. And I think Burrell will be one of them. We know right now Mahomes has been, and I think Herbert is the same deal, man. I mean, the first touchdown pass that he had, all that arm, all that torque, getting it in there, facing the rush of Bolton, the linebacker, who's a really good player, stiff-arming him. Again, that ball got thrown out. But there's just stupid shit that Herbert does. You're like, this guy's nuts.

He had another throw, too, I think to Keenan Allen on the left side where he threw it past Baker, the corner. DeAndre Baker from Kansas City. And even Aikman and those guys, they made a a great point in the call is that Baker's fronting the route going whatever like I've got I've got the receiver behind me he's to the sideline like I've got this there's no way Herbert's going to throw it in the bucket and it's exactly what he did so Herbert has all these throws and you're left with even in a loss I think being incredibly impressed with him and realizing like like, this is the point.

These are the nights where you watch a quarterback play this way and go, this guy can kind of carry this team. Because we know the charge of defense. Missing guys again last night. When Derwin James is healthy, it's awesome. He's just not as healthy as you need him to be. The offensive line has missed some pieces. Although they ran the hell out of the football. Because on the other side, Kansas City's missing some defensive starters.

And maybe the most important defensive player. Now, let me not overstate this. Chris Jones is the most important defensive player to the Chiefs. I don't know if the list of NFL defensive players is longer than five as far as who is the most important to his team. I don't think that list is very long. Yes, Aaron Donald is the best defensive player, but if you think of who has what on their roster defensively and who the Chiefs have been, when Chris Jones is out, it's like night

and day. I know they've mixed him around defensive tackle, defensive end. It looks like that experiment is over. The numbers prove that he probably shouldn't have been lining up over the center anyway, but Chris Jones is that important and not having him is a big reason why the LA Chargers ran for 192 yards. So now, what do we have?

We have Kansas City with seven straight wins. They're two up on the Chargers in the division. They're 10-4, and they're the number one seed in the AFC. So I just don't get doubting the Chiefs when Mahomes is behind center, even if there are a few times where you start wondering what's wrong with him, because what you're really doing is wondering what's wrong with him because he's not perfect, because you're not comparing him to anyone else. You're only comparing him to peak Mahomes and peak Mahomes is about as perfect as we've ever seen anyone ever

play the position. And even with his miscues last night, the last three real possessions, look at this stuff. 78 yards touchdown, two-point conversion. 75 yards touchdown, two-point conversion. One possession doesn't really count because it's the end of the game. Then overtime, the touchdown for the game winner. The Chiefs are the one seeded again and it actually feels normal. I wanted to

just finish here a minute or two on Twitter spaces. I dipped my toe into it the other day. It's just like Clubhouse. We have Spotify Green Room, which I'll be doing some more stuff with coming up probably next year. And so the Travis Hunter deal where the number one recruit was supposed to go to Florida State, Deion Sanders flips him to his school. Everybody had an opinion on this one. And with the NIL deal deal almost anything is possible

now i know deon said that's not what it was about i you know whatever but what i think is is just comical is the consistent hypocrisy of college football fans that it's it's like the example like when a when a quarterback gets kicked out of one sec school for doing something off the field he wasn't supposed to do then everybody makes fun fun of him. Everybody makes fun of that school. Then he transfers to one of the schools where the fan base was making fun of the kid the entire time. And they're like, awesome. Thrilled we got him. Because selfishly, you're like, hey, maybe our team's going to be better. Now I don't care about this thing that was making fun of this guy. And when it comes to paying players, whether legal now or not

legal or whatever the NIL rules are, which nobody still seems to know, apparently there's ways to break the rules. It reminds me a little bit when Ole Miss landed all these number one guys at their position. They just had an absolute stud class. I think Treadwell was in that. Robert Condici, whose brother was on the team. And we had Hugh Freeze on the radio show. And we're like, look, you know, everyone's taking their shots at you. How do you explain how Ole Miss landed all of these guys?

And Hugh Freeze made a really compelling case. He's like, okay, first of all, you've got an older brother that's already here. The younger brother, Robert Condici, coming out of high school was like the guy. And they were like, then he met so-and-so at a camp who played in a high school in the Chicago area with this kid, and that's why this safety and this guy. So it was all a really, really good explanation. Again, you know, whatever.

The point was you had other SEC West schools, Blue Bloods, Blue Blood schools, basically being pissed. It's like, you know, we may be living in the gray areas, but you're not supposed to do it as well. And to see some of the college football voices that I respect, I think there was even one guy that worked for Florida State or maybe did radio that was like, this is a dark day for college football. It's like, why?

Because all of a sudden you didn't get to keep your guy. And so I went in and dipped my toes into it, and it was predictably crazy. I think the Norvell went on, was it two days? That was like Burning Man, however long that thing went on. I'm telling you, I don't know if it went overnight or what, but it has nothing on the Lewis Hamilton one that I

jumped into as well to listen to what was going on. You had Lewis Hamilton fans so upset about Verstappen winning the F1 championship this year. And again, it was a weird way to end a race for all of our race fans out there. But there are people arguing or making the point that Lewis may retire because he's so distraught

after this decision, that is there anyone on the Twitter space that knew the Obamas? Could anyone reach out to Michelle? Somebody was like, could we reach out to Michelle and then maybe even Barack to just inspire Lewis? And then there was an engineer who came on who said he worked for Red Bull, but I don't think he was working on the cars. Maybe it was the can.

And he goes, Max is dangerous. He is pushing the car to the limits and he will kill someone at some point. So that's a take to put in the old tank bank for a later date. But when I listen to that stuff, I go, man, I thought college football was crazy. I'm not going to go on any f1 message boards I'm probably done with that but I did experience it for a little bit and part of me was like wait is this how a lot of people think about things because that would be crazy Golden State's been one of the biggest stories, and Steph Curry certainly at the center of that with the record-breaking chase this past week.

And Bob Myers, general manager of the Warriors, good enough to spend some time with us. Okay, so there's a lot of stuff I want to get to here, Bob. But what was Steph Week like for you? Because it was fun to see everybody care about this record, which I wasn't really used to anymore in sports, but I know you traveled out to New York for it. He was very honest about what it meant to him what was this what was this like for

you for somebody you've watched this long you know i don't know how you look at these things we all look at everything differently which is our own prerogative but i'm not a huge kind of record guy i mean i just not we all put our our own importance on these things. So, so as we led into it, Ryan, I was kind of like, do I need to be there when this happens? And I kind of floated that to some peers. And they're, they're kind of like, yeah. And I said, I said, I don't know if he'll care. And they said, well, don't you care? And I said, yeah i care but um i mean it's it's not winning a championship and it's not you know he'll have his family you know it's he's not gonna and and as i thought started thinking about it more i realized that it is a big moment um and i don't do well at kind of

celebrating the big moments so i tried to kind of 10 years on the job. I tried to approach this season as if I'm going to enjoy this season, no matter what happens. Cause I didn't, this isn't, I'm not speaking for the organization. I'm speaking for myself, even as great as we were in those years,

I did not enjoy it as much as I should have. So I kind of am trying and was trying to say, I'm going to change that. So this was part of me going, you know what, this is cool. This guy's going to set a record. And in NBA, besides winning a championship, maybe MVPs and things like that, as far as records go, I was sitting with Mike Dunleavy Jr. at the game in New York. And he said, besides most points scored ever, what do you think

the next biggest record is? Is it this? And this was right before he broke it. I said, you know what? It might be. And I don't know what you think, but in the NBA, you know, in baseball, maybe it's home runs or I don't know what probably is, right? Total home runs. But after total points, this probably is. And the phenomenon of the three-point shot. So being there in New York, I took a red eye out. Had he broken it, Ryan, in Indianapolis, I wouldn't have been there. So I took that risk. But I also knew if he didn't do that, I would go to New York. And being there, and sometimes you make these decisions in life, and you're sitting there thinking, was this a good idea or a bad idea? And as I sat there in New York in the garden, I was thinking, I'm so glad I'm here. And in New York, I'm sure

you've been to Knicks games. There's something different about that arena, the history, the character. And then when he did it to see his reaction, I talked to his dad before the game, talked to some of his friends. And then I saw him after and it would have been pretty stupid if I had missed that one. You know, he, he, the guys are pretty amazing guys. We can go into the Steph superlatives if you want, but I haven't known him as long as I have. It was, I don't, you never know how much somebody cares. You go to their wedding, you go to somebody, you never know. But I think I was glad i was there at least

i i think maybe he cared a tiny bit yeah the new york part of it adds to it too because i don't care who you want once you're there and you got a seat for an event that matters the crowd really is different it's not it's not oversold it's one of the few things that i think matches the anticipation so you uh we'll do a little bob my Myers history here because I think this is as far as the Steph part of it. You're, you're named GM in April, 2011. You know, the plan was you were going to kind of be brought along slowly. And then very quickly you were in charge of the team.

Steph's drafted 2009. You do the extension for four years, 44 million in 2012. And at the time, because of Steph's ankle situation, you're like, okay, what, what do we have? We think we have something special. I don't think anybody's even in 12 projecting what we have now. Is there any story to share from that moment

of, you know, it felt like, oh, this is the greatest contract extension in the history of team sports, but even at the time, the reason the number was the number is because of the ankle part. What were those conversations like, and what kind of risk you and ownership are willing to expose yourself, and maybe on the Curry side of the number that they would still be looking for off a rookie extension of a player who, when he was healthy, was a special player? I think, Ryan, they knew.

Steph and Jeff Austin, his agent, were confident that he was going to be a great player and get healthy. was he was going to be a great player and get healthy, but also smart enough to know it wasn't 100%. But they had that belief. So in the negotiations, it wasn't as if they were approaching it with any trepidation and we better take this money because we're not going to get healthy. So they were confident, which they should have been. We were a little more fearful because in the NBA, as you well know,

if you make a guaranteed deal without any injury protection and it doesn't work, that can hamstring you pretty badly. But as I talked about it with Joe Lake, it was probably one of the first major decisions after the draft that we had to make. And the thing I remember mostly was when you make these decisions. And again, if I had to look back at commentary after we decided, I'd say half the people said it was not smart. Why would you do this? You should wait.

You know, the guy's not healthy. We actually did the extension. His ankle was sprained. People don't remember that. He had sprained it in Portland in the preseason game. So he was actually injured again when we did the deal and we reached the deal or right close to it or coming off an ankle sprain. I think he played in that game in Phoenix.

I remember when he signed the extension, we were on the road, I think in Phoenix right around Halloween, but three or four, you know, a week before he had sprained his ankle. And so we were all kind of on the heels of that. But when you make these determinations and, and any GM makes any decision, right. We don't, there's no a hundred percent. Ever. Unless you're maybe drafting, you know, LeBron James won in the draft. You don't really equivocate over that. But other than that,

you're all operating with imperfect information. But what we decided was, and I think this is smart in life, at least in professional sports, we said, let's bet on the guy. You know, that's probably the best decision we ever made. Well, at least financially. And then we, you know, keeping him, I mean, it's pretty simple to do, not too complicated to keep that guy in your organization. But we decided at that time, let's bet on this person and that he'll heal and do everything to get back playing.

And clearly, you know, the interesting thing about the extension was if you look at steps and this has been publicly said, he didn't want to be drafted by the Warriors. been publicly said he didn't want to be drafted by the Warriors. But when he did, he showed up and Larry Riley drafted. Larry actually invited him to come to New York. So he was there too. And I said, Larry, you should be here for this. You drafted this guy. And so when he showed up, Steph was a great guy.

I wasn't there when he got there, but he did everything the the Warriors wanted in an organization that wasn't well-known for success. And it's a great story about a guy that maybe didn't get drafted where he wanted to get drafted, maybe didn't get paid even what he deserved early on. He signed the deal, but obviously it was a very quick... Everybody realized he was underpaid. Didn't complain ever. When I'm talking about ever, I mean ever. Never said a word, never under his breath, never in a text message to me, never into anybody in the organization.

Can't believe I'm making this. I mean, he wasn't even the highest paid player on the team. I think until about six, seven years into his career, because he had the four-year rookie scale and then a four-year extension, I think. So eight years, I think for eight years, Steph Curry, I'd have to check, was not the highest paid player on the team. So going through all that, not a word of complaint. And that's who he is.

And then believing in the organization. And it's a good story of perseverance. I think that's what a lot of people lack these days is getting through a situation, right? Everybody thinks Steph Curry walked in the league and Warriors were great. We were not great. We're anything but great. The brand of the organization was awful. A lot of people didn't know where Golden State was. This guy showed up and was part of the solution. And everything he has received in the last however many years he's played, he's earned.

So that's my favorite part of him because it's rare that someone that doesn't get what they deserve in a contract or maybe goes somewhere they don't want to go or has to kind of wait on an organization to catch up to the, to the premier organizations that they do it with humility and grace. And he did all that. So to see him do what he's done, but they do it with humility and grace, and he did all that. So to see him do what he's done, it's almost a story of how things should go for a guy like that.

When you evaluate players, like you do the draft, NBA free agency, and that kind of stuff, I can imagine with your background, you watch a player and you see them in a vacuum, but then because you have Steph and his gravity on offense, and still every night I watch you guys play, there'll be moments where I laugh. I just laugh, see how a team freaks out on a cut.

And he has nothing to do with what's going on. How much does Steph influence the way you evaluate a player, perhaps differently saying, okay, this is who he is. But with us, because of Steph, this is who we will be. Yeah, Ron, we've had,

that's a constant work in progress to figure that out. Initially, we thought eight, nine years ago, let's put him with a big guard that can handle. And that's why we liked Iguodala. That's why we, we wanted Livingston before we got Livingston.

We tried to sign him and then we eventually did sign him we like the idea of letting steph play off the ball and on the ball he does both but finding guys that could maximize his ability off the ball that were big and could defend and play and make plays and so we got that part I think right in hindsight um but as we've matured and grown and clay came along and and Draymond became what he is almost like a point guard for us it's a constant evolution the league has changed I mean Steph now what he averages 13 threes a game people would have thought he was crazy if he did that five years just five years ago um we talked for the year I said Steph analyt, analytically, our guys say you should shoot 15 threes a game. He started laughing. And I said, I know you can laugh and I'm not saying you need to do that, but that is the most efficient way for us to play.

That's insane, right? I mean, and I know the league had shifted when Steph, three or four years ago, I think he attempted 13 or 14 and nobody said anything. And then I knew at that point, this is just what it is. So now you've got a guy like you talk about gravity that it can extend and they're going to blitz every time. Blitzing is kind of the NBA parlance for double team off the, off the pick and roll who can play out of that. So you're basically playing four on three.

A lot of times we'll step on the floor when the team takes them out of the play. So then it becomes, if you know basketball, then you got to make some decisions. It's four on three a lot of times with step on the floor when the team takes them out of the play so then it becomes if you know basketball then you got to make some decisions if it's four on three how do you play out of that and that's where we tried to get guys that you know felt the game a little bit could pass could move could screen but we're not i think a lot of teams want those guys right i mean we're strapped with how much we can spend and you want to also find the right mix of guys, young and old, but we're not. Steph makes it a heck of a lot easier because he almost immediately buys it by himself, gives you a good offense. So then it's about building a good defense, maximizing that offense. The one time about five, six years ago, I played basketball

with Steph. They needed a guy, this was maybe six, seven, eight years ago. The thing I'll tell you about what he does from personal experience, I'm not an NBA player by any stretch. I was on the other team. I wasn't on his team. And I remember feeling like on defense that this is really uncomfortable. And I wasn't even guarding. And the reason why it was uncomfortable is because he extends you out so far of what is comfortable. He puts you and makes you feel as a defender vulnerable because you're, you got one eye on this guy that can shoot from anywhere and his finishing around the rims is very underrated.

So even when he got to the paint, people think they can block his shot and it's easy to do. It's really hard because the left, right hand, floaters, all kinds of different weapons around the rim. And he's stronger than people think. But he, you used the word, gravity is the right word. I think you used it. What he does as far as a pull, as far as a magnet,

takes everybody out of position. And that's why he's so good and makes our offense good. What's the, uh, unfiltered Bob Myers take when you hear the guys from the nineties saying Steph wouldn't be able to handle it. You know, unfiltered envy,

envy. I mean, and also you don't know, you know, that that's what I would say, you know, be careful because there's certain people that you're around that Steph Curry was going to find a way no matter what. I mean, this guy wasn't handed a 6'8 frame and, you know, 250 pounds and great athleticism. This guy wasn't a Duke recruit. he wasn't the consensus number one he wasn't yeah his dad played in the nba and that i think that's an advantage um but beyond that yeah he has gifts um but people don't see the will of him and i bet on somebody's an athlete's will along with talent

they'll find a way so if he was in that era, sure, the game was different, but that's unfair to say. I just think that's a big misrepresentation. So Clay's coming back. I've talked with you about hoops, and I'm not any good anymore. If somebody told me today, hey, you can't, you can't play for 900 days. I would, I would, I wouldn't like that news. And this is somebody who's one of the best we've ever seen do it from, from a shooting

perspective. And he's coming back. What's, what's this been like for clay? What's it been like for you and making sure he's okay. Missing these two years and being ready to come back. Cause it's a lot, it's a lot to ask of somebody like him. Yeah, well, it's not okay. I mean, I can't make it okay.

I mean, for the people listening or watching, whatever you love to do, you know, separate from your family or kids, but anything outside of kind of blood, whatever you love to do, imagine that being taken, right? Your number one joy is not there for you. And that's going to be hard on anybody. And then imagine you're great at something. You're just one of the best in the world at that. And then you can't do it.

So it's not as if, you know, I'm able to play basketball, but I'm not, I'm old. I mean, I, you know, I, you know, you're at the height of your peak, right? For a guy like that. You can expect injuries at a certain age in life. You kind of say, well, I had a good run and my body's kind of failing me now. He's not at that point in life. So, and add to it, one of the most competitive people you'll meet, along with somebody that loves basketball and would play for free. He doesn't do it for the money. And you'd be surprised.

You've been around a lot of athletes, Ryan. Not every NBA player, many don't love basketball. Many. You could argue at least half. I don't know what the numbers are. But as far as the pure love for the game, he has that. So now you're physically forbidden and emotionally, you've got to watch it every day. You've got to see it.

You've got to be around it. And I think that's what he struggled with initially with the ACL. He had to see it. And this is a guy that never missed any games, by the way. I mean, he never missed games. Injuries weren't even something that he felt would ever happen to him. So then he gets the ACL, and then he added the Achilles, and it's human nature to say, what is, why me, right?

So you've got to process all that. I can't go through that with him. I see him. We support him. But that takes a toll, and you just have to hope. And, again, for the people watching, it's not the greatest tragedy, right? There's worse things in life. But athletically, an athlete in his prime to miss two years,

separate from the awful things in life, is a rough road to hoe. But he's had ups and downs. He'd tell you that too. But we're close and i've told people and tell you when he comes back um that moment and and i believe it'll be in our arena i think will be um the ovation he gets um from our fans And I hope the opposing team, and I'm sure our players, will be the best ovation

I've ever seen in my life at all the sporting events I've been to, and the most deserved, and the most authentic. And I actually started, I was more emotional at the Curry thing

than I thought I would be. Watching him, I didn't think, I started thinking like, because when you hit these moments, what makes a championship for me emotional is you look back on your life. You know, those movies you see Ryan and then they rewind, they do a quick two minute collage of how you got there. And it's kind of an emotional thing.

When you win a championship, it's not the moment you win. It's the moment processing all it took to get there, all the hard moments and all the ups and downs and who you did it with. And I think all those things when Clay comes back are going to kind of come rushing in for everybody. And it's going to be emotional in a very happy way, but highly emotional. And it's actually, I'm more excited about that than anything really for him and for our organization or for our fans. I'm going to set this one up, and it's not going to be the greatest

form in question, but you've got Klay coming back, you've got Steph. Draymond has been, as you mentioned, kind of that four-on-three thing and how people would blitz Steph. You had the perfect outlet to have Draymond now be a decision maker on top of the big guards that you had. So you have this group that's really special that had one of the most intense, one of the most historic runs in the history of this game. And then you're adding three lottery picks to it, Wiseman, Kaminga, and Moody in this past year.

And I think from the outside, where a lot of us make mistakes is that well hey if they have these older group of the three guys then what are they doing with the lottery picks they got to flip them they got to trade them they got to have everybody match the same age timeline which i think is one of the most overrated i don't even think it's overrated i just think it's idiotic to be like hey everybody has to be within three years of each other to have a roster doesn't make any sense but people say it all the time what has it been like balancing probably some of the opportunities that you could have had to have somebody fit the timeline a little bit more where it's like are we going for it what are we building you have this two-year void i mean it's

a very odd story and a roster where i think a lot of people have a lot of opinions about what it is that you're trying to do and maybe it's really simple maybe it's just hey we had lottery picks we took guys we liked and then we have them on the team. So how do you balance kind of all these different things and trying to feel like you're maximizing the three older guys while also making sure that you're making the best long-term decisions, which isn't really an easy thing to do? Yeah, so a lot there, right? Yeah, like I said, it was going to be a bad question. Yeah, no, it's not a bad question. It's a lot that lots of process and respond to um shaping a roster is like a puzzle right um we're lucky we got those corner pieces in steph you know draymond clay and you know those are hard to find and you know even wiggins you could argue now and but you got to fill this thing in

and no gm in any sport does that perfectly. And everybody has different beliefs and thoughts. The public does, the media does, the fans do, coaches do, owners do. And what we try to do, Ryan, is find, most importantly, something that fits together. Because it's not just talent, right? And it's not just age and youth. You have to factor in all that and you look at like you said this notion of you have to be a certain age or you can't have any young guys history has proven young guys can help you win a championship it's happened

back to magic johns you know it it happens it'll continue to happen um when we won in 14 15 that was not there weren't many old guys on that team as far as the core guys. I think Draymond was in his third year, I mean. Harrison Barnes was pretty young too. So you're right in that thought. Not everybody would agree, but that's what makes sports so fun is there's always disagreement. And more so now than ever. I mean, when I was growing up as a Warriors fan, I didn't know who the GM was. Now it's almost like, whether it's fantasy football or whatever it is, people say, I want to be a GM. That was never talked about when I was... Nobody said, I want to be a GM. Maybe you want to play. Maybe you want to be a coach.

I didn't hear a lot of people want to be a GM. Now everybody wants to be a GM. And they're all smarter than me. And they all would have done something different. I think that when you do something and you make these decisions, as a GM in any sport, you look at all the things you have in front of you and all the information, and then you make the best decision with that information you have and hope it works. And so when we looked at this roster, we thought, we can add veterans in free agency.

We thought we could do that. We thought we had some guys coming like a Jordan Poole. We thought Wiggins might be better. You want to get specific. We knew Clay was coming back at a certain point. We knew that Wiseman was coming back at a certain point. He could be a vertical lob threat. We knew that Looney had some equity as far as how we played defensively um we knew although the public may or not you watched draymond in the olympics we saw a different engagement level we saw a guy that was kind of like okay i'm back and i'm gonna i'm gonna be what i was and that's a huge part of our success this year is draymond his mental i always tell draymond if i was a mafia guy and i wanted to get somebody on our team to fix the game, I'd come to you.

And that's that because Draymond can move us emotionally in many ways up and down. And he's a hard guy to to once the game starts and he's in a certain mind frame, you're probably not moving him out of. He's a strong minded guy. So if he's upset, you're probably not moving him out. He's a strong-minded guy. So if he's upset, you're going to know it. He doesn't hide his emotions. And if he's in a good place, you're going to know that too. He's been in such a good place this year. But we thought that was possible.

We thought that we could get that version of Draymond. Gary Payton, we had him in the summer. We had him and watched him in summer league. We saw how he could fit. Damian Lee, Juan Toscano. We saw those guys playing last year, helping us. Um, and then in the draft, you know, I think I would go against what the people say is you have to need all vets.

You need youth. You need that sprinkle of youth. Um, you need that athleticism. You need those young legs to kind of grow within the organization. Look, is that the right exact way? I don't think there's one way. You've covered sports a long time. I mean, every team does it differently.

I like our mix. You know, Porter coming in as a vet. Bialica, guys we like. Iguodala means more to us than he might to any other team. What he does in the locker room, who he is. I can go down the list, Ryan, but I think what you try to do is build a team you can lose with. I know that may be hard to understand, but when you build a team, obviously you want to win. But if you build a team that you can lose with, you might win. Does that make sense? Like if I'm playing something with you

and we're playing doubles, ping pong or pickleball or tennis or whatever, and I know who you are when we lose, that's more important than knowing who you are when we win. Because if I know I can live with you when we lose, then we can overcome whatever adversity comes our way. But if you're only a good guy when we win and then we lose, you lose your mind, you start blaming me, start falling apart. Well, then I know we're in trouble. So that's kind of back into some of these decisions and say character and temperament, skill set and all that, and you go from there. I don't know if you'll be able to tell me the truth on this one, but I'm going to try anyway. How close was the debate on Wiseman and LaMelo when you had the number two pick? How close was the debate on Wiseman and LaMelo when you had the number two pick?

How close was the debate? Yeah. I mean, it's hard because that year, it was an unusual year because we couldn't bring guys into our facility. And so we didn't get the same access and things like that. But we targeted James. Obviously, we took him in front of LaMelo. And we debate everything. and it's always close. People would argue in one guy's mind it's close.

In one guy's mind, he likes this guy more than the other. And we're pretty debate-oriented. So it's not just me in a room where I just say, this is what we're doing, shutting doors. So we hashed out the whole thing as far as what we thought. We ended up ranking it the way we did. And we watched LaMelo. He a great workout um when we saw him we knew he'd be a really good player but we ended up putting obviously james in front of him that our action showed that uh and so we

still believe james is going to be a great player but the draft is probably always closer than people think but but it's different for everybody right right? It's not just my opinion. It's our whole organization's opinion. And I think the thing you learn in the draft and that I've learned about our players is that, especially with these young guys now, I don't know the answer of the draft or I don't think anybody does for a few years. I know we try to kind of immediately rank guys and that's fine. People are allowed to do whatever they want, but I think James is going to have a great career. I think he try to immediately rank guys, and that's fine. People are allowed to do whatever they want.

But I think James is going to have a great career. I think he's a great fit for us. He needs to be healthy. He needs to play. I think he's just beginning his career. He's going to have a heck of a career and a long career. We're excited when he gets back. The development part that you've touched on, too.

Anybody that watches and just thinks about the pieces around Steph off of where you were last year. You know, Poole, you know, had some amazing numbers last year. Now he's somebody you trust. Even Juan, who was out of the rotation, came right back in and fight. He's guarding Embiid the other night, you know, when he got stuck with him. And then when I think about Wiseman, I think about him being in a different situation. You know, it wasn't easy.

This is somebody now who hasn't played basketball for like two years since high school and three games at Memphis and the beginning run that he had with you. But something that I always try to say is like, even when it's disappointing, you have to be understood. Like he's held to

a different standard. He's held to a completely different standard where I think if he were a team that was still lottery bound, he'd probably get 20 and 10 rolling out of bed because physically,

I think he is that special. He has moments physically where I go, there's not really anybody else that's doing this kind of stuff. You know, again, he's not the only guy. So when you say, hey, I think he's going to be a great player, he's coming back too. Where is he now, even without the games in his development

compared to where he was where he was kind of thrown into the fire? Look, I'm with you. But when I say I believe in him and think he can do all those things, people think I'm being defensive or I'm just promoting our guy. I agree. I think he is just like Kaminga and Moody. They're not getting to just go out there this year and run around. Their minutes are limited. They're on one of the better teams in the league right now. So they don't get that leash or ability to make mistakes

that a lot of young rookies get. It's rare a team like ours gets to draft guys that high. So, you know, I look back at a guy like Jermaine O'Neal, who Arne Tellman and I represented early in his career, and he didn't play for four years in Portland. But I remember going to a summer league game down in Long Beach when they used to have it down there in LA and watched him. And I was new in the business. Arne had just hired me and he, and I, he said, can you take Jermaine?

Or I went down to the game with Jermaine, um, and went to eat afterwards. And I watched him, he had like 20 and 15 and I'm watching like, this guy's unbelievable. Like, why isn't this guy playing?

But he was playing behind Brian Grant and Sabonis, I think. That team was loaded by the way. Yeah. 10 guys. And, and, and he was miserable.

And, and, and I remember thinking and i was talking to dunleavy jr who works with us his dad was a coach and his head is he said his dad told the gm don't trade this guy he goes this guy's gonna be really because he saw him in practice every day so do not trade this guy and the gm uh that was with and whoever said the time like well he's we don't have room for him. And Dan Levy said, he's going to eventually play. But they were working on year three or four.

And I'm sure Arne, I know, was saying, hey, if you're not going to play him, move him. Which is fair, right? Everybody was right in this situation. And then Jermaine goes to Indiana and he just blows up, right? So I don't know what James is going to be. But I do know he hasn't had a chance to do anything yet or show anything yet. Three games in Memphis last year, we didn't know what we had. And I don't think even Steve would admit, we just kind of threw James out there.

And that's hard for a big guy to do. We were posting him up on Aiden and things like that. We probably wouldn't do that anymore. I think Steve was trying to see what he was. I think Steve was trying to see what he was. So now it's about putting him in a narrower lane and letting him grow from outside of that. I think last year it was almost like the opposite. You saw his first game against Brooklyn.

After that game, everybody said, this guy's going to be the best player ever. It's just that it reminds you of how fast things move in this league. This guy's great. Well, now he's not. You see that happen every year. I'm extremely excited about him. Love the kid, love the work.

Hopefully he's back here at some point soon. I think he's getting close to doing some scrimmaging and stuff like that. And we need him. We need his talent. We need his skill set. But I've learned in this business, Ryan, patience is important I mean pool is a guy that I mean people wrote off after four games and said this guy's the worst player he's got the worst analytics history the league I mean his shooting was why'd you take this guy you

know what a lot of draft boards said you know he was supposed to be 50th and I'm not I'm not I'm not patting our back we got It's not that we got it right or wrong. The story is relevant because it's indicative of this immediate criticism or praise we live in. Let it breathe, right? Let it breathe. And if we're wrong on something, yeah, we got it wrong. Okay? Whether it's any draft pick.

Okay? Yeah, we got it. But to anoint someone soon or denounce them isn't right. But I can't change that. I can't change that. So we're excited about James. I think he's going to be a great player for our franchise for a long, long time. We need him to accomplish the things I think we want to accomplish this year. We're going to need him. And I'm excited, like I am for Clay, for James to get back. Two more things and I'll let you go because you're a busy man.

I watched Kaminga. I watched the G League stuff. It was all over the place. And then I was like, this isn't enough. I don't have enough here. All right. So I started watching the New York Ren stuff and I was going back to watching his AU.

And I was like, okay, he's way bigger than everybody else. He's not like crazy. he's not twitchy quick. Again, him next to Jalen Green, too, made Kaminga look slower because Jalen's just physically, you know, in elite level. And I was like, all right, when he's running the offense, it's kind of funny because he's a huge high school kid, and he's just destroying some guys. He's got like a little turnaround on the baseline. Like, who taught him that? Because it's actually comfortable.

But I would admit it was, and again, this is just my time getting eyes on guys before the draft. I was like, I don't know. I was like, I don't know what to do with him. I don't know what to do with him. And because I think you guys have such a great organization, you taking him. It's like the old Spurs thing back in the day. When the Spurs took somebody, if I didn't like him, I'd be like, I guess I'm wrong because it's the Spurs. What was it?

What was the Kaminga discussion like? Because I'll tell you, he seems like with a little bit more of, I don't know, blinders isn't the right word. But like in a system with you, I'm more impressed in the small bursts that I've seen from Kaminga where the freelancing scared the hell out of me. I'll admit before we get to the NBA. So let me, I'll answer it. Who, who did you like? Cause you sounds like you studied the draft pretty,

pretty well. And by the way, I'm happy to know people think a GM, I guess I'm not this way. I don't pretend that I don't get offended when somebody criticizes any, anybody, you know, not that you are or not,

but I don't, I don't act like, you know, okay, I'm, I'm a genius. I got it all figured out, but, but who would you have taken? I'm just curious. Um, you know, look, I, I think once Giddy was gone, I I'd like Giddy, but I also, you know, I'm not thrilled about guys that can't shoot, you know, I think it's a weird thing, but we've had some weird examples like LaMelo shooting shooting in Australia. I was like, what is he doing? Then he all of a sudden shoots it at a higher clip in the NBA than he ever has.

Anthony Edwards took bad threes at Georgia. The team wasn't great. He was kind of on his own. But now I'm going, do I have to now change my approach to guys that have bad shooting numbers, thinking that they're just going to be better in the NBA? Even Giddy, who I wouldn't call a shooter here, but again, he's gone in front of you.

Davion, I was scared of because of the high and low end. If I told you I would take Franz every single day over Kaminga, I'd be lying to you, even though Franz looks immediately like he can fit in. So I thought you were in a weird spot where it felt like physically what Kaminga projects as is if it goes right, then he was still in the right pit. When Kaminga was being talked about as a number two or three or four,

that's where I was always pushing back a little bit more. But I think once he lands on seven with you, it made more sense to me, even though I'll admit he scared the hell out of me. Right. Okay. So a couple things. The shooting is interesting because you're not wrong about being fearful of guys that can't shoot. That's every NBA team.

But what you will see is we played the Knicks the other night. I remember early on, Arne also represented Derrick Rose. Derrick Rose has become a pretty competent three point shooter. He couldn't shoot at all when he got into the league. Jason Kidd, many, many players,

you know, Jalen Brown, guys that I call, you know, there's guys. The one thing I think you can get better at is that now um, now you can't get taller. Usually you can't get more athletic. Um, probably can't do a lot of things that you're genetically unable to do, but shooting through reps, you can get better. How much better? That's the hardest thing to figure out, right? How much

better can you get as a shooter? So you're right to think that. And we all think that. So we study kind of watching a guy shoot. Is it the same shot every time, right? You know, how much do you need to change it? Some organizations, like you mentioned the Spurs, have done a great job of developing their shooters. You know, Kawhi is a great example. So we think, and we thought with Taminga and a lot of guys, the shooting will get better, right? I mean, we knew we weren't drafting. Moa and a lot of guys, the shooting will get better, right? I mean, we knew we weren't drafting. Moody's a guy we drafted who obviously shows he can shoot. We don't need to do too much with it.

Taminga, the things we liked about Jonathan were a couple of things. Better passer than people think. He averaged almost three assists. If you watch him, you don't get to see him as much as I do because of practice and scrimmaging. He's got a better feel. Everybody criticizes his feel. His feel isn't bad.

He's not going to get 10 assists a game most likely, but he sees the open guy. He knows how to swing the ball. His defense is way underrated. I thought he can guard one through five almost, which makes him extremely valuable in this kind of modern NBA and his athleticism, speed, footwork. You mentioned kind of that baseline shot. His post work, which is something that we'll see as we evolve. Very few guys can post up, but in this switching NBA, could he punish a small if you throw it on him?

He's pretty good at that. Maybe one of the best on our team at that. But he's 19 years old. I mean, literally turned 19 two months ago in October. So this guy was, he probably should be a freshman in college right now. I mean, most, there's guys that were drafted around him that are a year older than him. They're in the top five, top six. So we think at the draft at the top, when you build a team, the difference between a

star and a role player, the teams that win or are great, it's your best players that differentiate you. You can't ever win with a bunch of role players. And I'm not talking about this draft or any other player in particular, but our belief is you have to take swings on guys that could become stars at the top. And you might get it right, you might get it wrong.

But if you get it right, and all of a sudden, three, four, five years down the road, you have an all-star, right? Or an all-NBA guy. That is so hard to find that you have to try. Problem is now we're drafting 19-year-olds that have played limited games. You don't really know who they are work ethic-wise. You and I at 19, we didn't have any, we were probably a mess, to be honest. I mean, we didn't know who we were, our work ethic, how we would deal with money, success, pressure. So that's the hardest thing we do. It's not necessarily watching their physical abilities. It's seeing what they'll become mentally. That's, I think, the biggest challenge. But what we saw in Kaminga was great

upside. He's a great kid. And on our team, he's just not going to get the same run, but it's coming. If you watched him behind the scenes and saw him and got to see him as much as we would, you'd probably be more impressed. I'm not trying to sell him, but I think he's going to be a really good player. No, I'm not taking it that way because I think you said something really smart about Jalen Brown

is that when I talked to the Celtics after the fact about Jalen, just to be at the combine and you run into somebody, you'd be like, hey, what'd you see with Jalen? Because it was pretty messy at Cal. And it's a lot of the same things that you're saying about Kaminga, not that they're the same profile of player, but it's the profile of the pick of like, hey, kind of where you're at in the draft,

looking at the other options around it. Physically, does this guy project, if he figures the basketball part of it right, is like a really, really special kind of, again, movement is a word I use a little bit too much, but I get it. I get the similarities there of like, this guy has a chance though because he fits some of this profile stuff that we like.

I don't want to stay on that any longer because I want to finish with this one. You said something at the top that I thought was really interesting, so I want to circle back to it. You're putting together this legendary run, finals five straight years, and you said you didn't really enjoy it. How do you enjoy it now in comparison to when you were

winning all the time and you somehow weren't enjoying it? What have you done for yourself? I'm not saying I'm succeeding. I'm trying. Probably being a little older, not that I'm old, but looking back, it's kind of like you get to do, maybe this is a bad example, but we always talk about if I could go back to my senior high school, you know, you look back and I wouldn't have worried so much, or I would have just enjoyed it more, looked around. I think, um, when we went to our first finals, I called Sam Presti and I said, I called a few people. I called Mitch, I called Pat Riley, and I called Sam.

I said, any advice? And they all had very, they're very different guys. So they all had different advice. Pat was mostly about how to win. You're telling me Pat Riley and Sam Presti are different? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they both want to win,

but Sam, I remember he told me, he said, look around. You know, before the games, look around as it's happening. And I kind of thought, what do you mean? Means more now to me then because that's what I'm trying to do is look around and see, you know, take it in. And I think what I have learned is my favorite parts of that journey. And even now for me, Ryan is if you came to my house right now, or I took a video tour,

it'd be hard to find a warriors, anything in the house. I mean, it's, it's my kids have some shirts and the rings are in a safe, but I don't have, it just looks like a house with three girls and two cats in it. No dog.

So I love the people, you know, that have come in and out along the way, like getting to know Durant, you know, having all the guys like David West come through, having been on this journey with the guys that are still here, and Draymond and Steph and Clay and the Agadala coming back.

Because I think at the end of this, when I'm done or, you know, I, I, I'm kicked out. I want to have the relationships with people. That's all I want. I don't need a signed Curry jersey in my den. I don't need a picture. Um, we went to the white house um i want to be able to call draymond so let's go get somebody or call kevin or you know see a good dollar and you know say how your kid's doing and that's all i want and so that's where i put my work and energy into uh i want to i want to when it's ever whenever steve and i are done you know i want it to be all good and it will be there's nothing that's going to mess that up but but people think oh sure you

guys that's hard to do most gm's and coaches don't like each other i will not let anything affect my relationship with steve win or lose that's not because that's that's my gift that's not what the fans and anybody else cares about i care about my relationship that's what i get um yes i get whatever you know you you get um you you get paid you get things like that you get get a ring but what i want is the relationship so enjoying those right i'm trying to enjoy those you know you see a guy like a dollar who was here and he was gone and it's kind of like friend that came back talking to a guy like that, going on now eight years with Steve,

going on 10 years with our owner, the people I work with, bringing Livingston back in the organization, working with him. That is not whether we win or lose our game tonight. That stuff shouldn't change.

In an industry where all that matters to most people is the winning and losing, which is that, that's fine. Everybody can look at it however they want. When we won 73 games and set that record and lost in the finals, many people, many people said that's a failure. And I learned then, I said, that's not my definition of the season. You can have that if you want, but I know what went into that season.

And I know how hard these guys tried. And I remember watching that game seven and seeing the Cavs and our players literally exhausted, exhausted in game seven. Nobody could score. And I'm watching that game thinking these guys, them and us, are giving every single ounce of effort they can give to win this game. And enjoying that part of it and knowing that whoever won that earned it. They earned it. They beat us.

They earned it. But that didn't take away the 73 wins. You could say now or when we get off this, like, yeah, but it doesn't mean anything because you lost. And I'd say, Ryan, you're allowed to say that, but I don't have to say that. So coming into this season, it's about me trying to kind of

take that approach, but it ain't easy. It ain't easy, and maybe let's talk at the end of the year and see how well I did at that. Well, I know you'll enjoy Clay's return, so let yourself have some fun that night. Thanks a lot, man. All right, man. Thanks, Ryan. You want details?

Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

Life advice is the email is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Okay, guys, we got some Rudy back in the mix, by the way. How was your vacation? It was good. A little Napa Valley action. Saw the in-laws. Not a big wine guy, though, so Napa was kind of weird for me. And they're like, all right, here's a shard or here's a cab.

And I didn't know shit about anything um but it was all good so that was cool you don't know the difference prior to this trip between a chardonnay and a cab i do now uh but no not prior i mean i think i think i knew i think i knew a chardonnay was a white and isn't that like you know that's like the white mom wine i believe it's chardonnay a little buttery aftertaste there it wasn't my favorite one uh big cab guy now big pinot noir guy um but yeah that was kind of my first like toe dip into like the wine scene and i was good felt a little racist sorry i don't know this is that's what the stereotype is that's all like the the somalias out there kept saying like oh this is you know the white older white women typically like

chardonnays. I'm like, well, I guess, is it weird that I like it? I don't know. No, it's not weird. A big rosé guy, mostly because of Rick Ross, too. You like rosé? I do like rosé, yeah. But that's a summer one.

I learned that you only drink that in the summer. Okay, fair. Or if you're Rick Ross, I guess. Yeah, I like a nice sauv. I'll have a sauv have a soft maybe with dinner but um i don't know i'm not i'm not a huge wine guy i had a little pinot noir phase but that was probably because i was dating yeah i'm in that right now a little heavy heavy kyle i'll drink i'll drink that shit in 90 degrees summer i love red wine look at you know you would have fit in

well in burn that reminds me of time when i went to switzerland this past summer um and there were guys getting off uh getting off the train and burn which was a little little rough around the edges in certain spots um certainly not dangerous by any stretch of the imagination um but guys just pounding bottles of red wine outside of the train just not a huge mask group. Very anti-mask, I could tell. There were also a lot of them anti-shoes. So barefoot, jeans, and drinking red wine

right out of the bottle at the train station. So I will, if you go to Switzerland, if you make it to Bern, I can connect you. Sounds very European. Thanks. Yeah. I don't think I saw a lot of 401ks out of this group younger though younger so you know maybe those retirement ads maybe that schwab stuff they see in an nfl someday

doesn't hit the same yeah you know they're not worried about it okay uh another business affair that we need to clear up here kyle uh kyle talked about his time as one of the youngest managers maybe the single youngest manager in the history of modell sporting goods uh it's closed modell's is gone so you had a lot of people reach out to you huh didn't know that didn't know that yeah all right well somebody said they dm'd kyle um and said hey modell's went out of business last year i was he had a higher up position we don't we're gonna put this guy stuff out in the streets too much. Northeast, very high-level stuff here. It was let go last April. They hung around for a few months, though, after going through liquidation.

Someone bought the name and website, so they are still online, but it's not the same people. They tried to play it off as a COVID issue, but we're told the company was filing for bankruptcy weeks before the first case hit the Northeast. Oh, and he goes, here's the main guy on TV begging for investors in February 2020. Man, that is some nasty stuff. I mean, certainly this is all stuff that's beyond my understanding of the markets. But as somebody who invested in one company that was constantly like taking out loans and begging and begging, begging as the stock price went down, down, down. And you're like, you're starting your day watching the pre-market wondering, are they going to take out this loan? Is this the lifeboat

that they need? And then you're like, no, they're just finding a way to pay all themselves out and then waste other people's money while all shareholders went to zero so i don't know if that's the exact same thing that happened with dell's i don't even remember if it was publicly traded or not mitchell mitchell modell wouldn't do that um actually it was mitchell on tv so i don't know but i don't know maybe maybe it was him just asking for somebody to save him so you know not judging just pointing out there's there's always uh whenever you watch any of those financial shows, again, I watch a lot of the stuff because I'm interested in learning about it,

not because I understand all of it, but you can't. It's almost like a GM after the draft. Like, I can't believe we've got these guys. It's the same exact shit. Like, the guy just goes on. It's like, well, what about this? This is bad news. What about this number?

How come this? Or like, no, no, no, everything's awesome. Everything's awesome because you can't go on those shows and just go, yeah, you know what? what things pretty tight around here don't see any wins on the horizon could be out of business here in two years thanks for having me you just can't do it all right uh let's get to a couple here friend fight injury oh this is good okay 26-1-160 last weekend me and a couple friends drove up to visit some of our buddies at a Big Ten school. The plan was simply to hit the bars and have a good time. Everything was fine.

We had a good time. About one thirty two a.m. Near closing time. Me and a couple of people from our group went to Jimmy John's for sandwiches while in line. I couldn't help but overhear another group of guys in line. One guy in particular slander Joe Burrow. Oh, my God. I'm not usually very confrontational, but being pretty drunk,

I decided to jump in the conversation. Always a great idea. It ended up turning into an argument over who's better between Herbert and Burrow. I understand I'm in the minority thinking that Burrow is better. You are. But the guy I was arguing with was just making awful points and saying stupid things like Herbert owns Mahomes and that Herbert is the most gifted football player ever. I ended up just giving up on the argument, mistakenly told him that he was too ignorant to argue with. He didn't

seem too upset at the time. That's a bad sign. Nothing happened. Him and his buddies got their sandwiches and walked out. As me and my two friends are walking out, these guys are waiting for us. We ended up getting our asses kicked pretty badly. So bad that one of my friends who plays college basketball is out for two months with a broken wrist. He has yet to speak to me since that night, despite my multiple attempts to contact him. In most cases,

I feel like someone would get over this, especially since I feel like I didn't do anything to warrant a fight, but this is different. This guy takes everything way too seriously. And he's the guy in the group who can't take a joke. I'm afraid he's not going to get over this for at least an extended amount of time. Is there any other way I can go about this? Thanks. Well, you screwed up.

You know, you jumped into an argument. Guys are drinking. You know, I could say don't do this, but when you're drinking, it's last call, and you're waiting on subs. Shit happens. So I'm not going to be a moralist here with this because I get it. All right. Been there.

The, you know, I'll never understand. But again, I have a really, really slanted, I don't know, skewed view of this stuff. Like when I hear people making dumb sports points, I do not get in the conversation. I don't. But again, I didn't have a career when I was 20 waiting for a sub either. So I maybe I would have been pissed about this. I don't know. So the fact that those guys didn't say anything to you and then waited for you, probably you

should have known like, oh, maybe these guys like like the fight and they're so mad about this that like you knew you knew your chances weren't great, like that they didn't yell and keep it going to show off and stick their chest out and all that kind of stuff at a sub shop. In fact, they were like, no, let's just grab our subs. They may have even eaten their subs and then kicked your ass, which sucks on top of everything else. So the question I have for you here as far as trying to fix this relationship here with your buddy who should rightfully be pissed, do you do this all the time? Because if you do it all the time that's what

this is about if this is a complete one-off and you're not a 160 guy mouthing off to people about stupid arguments um then you really there's not you know you shouldn't feel bad about it but if you do do all this do do this all the time then you should feel nice what's that you said do do you said it twice yep that's right kyle i did um at 20 if he's taking stuff way too seriously and he's this emotional about it i i don't i don't really know how i would fix it other than i mean you wouldn't need to buy him a gift i mean guys in their 20s don't really do that kind of stuff right kyle you wouldn't buy anybody a gift would you well all right what would you do besides not get your ass kicked i imagine at this stage but go ahead what would you do it would just it would be a real sorry but

honestly if it's going past that's like come on that guy's a maniac like you know i'm i'm it's hard for me to put myself in that position like i would we'd have to be arguing about something else i wouldn't just be like oh your quarterback's not my favorite quarterback like I wouldn't I wouldn't do that there's uh there's a time and a place for that I think it's usually among friends not among strangers um but so if we got our ass kicked I would just have to say like you know I would say sorry absolutely but I'm not saying it more than twice that's for sure so you'd be fine because even though it's your fault and your friend broke his wrist can't play college basketball if he doesn't accept your apology after two months you'd be fine never being friends with him again no i mean he would just have to he would have to be continuously

not being friends with me if we're in the same group we're in a group of guys we might even fucking live together dude i don't know how it works. I'm just saying like, I would just, I would let the time heal. I mean, he's going to have to be, uh, healing anyway, but, um, I just, I mean, what's, what's there to do? There's nothing to do. There's nothing to do. Yeah, I totally agree. I, I don't, I don't know what the expectation here would be. I mean, he's young. Like I remember when I was in college, I got into like a heated about we take the Whalers pretty seriously up here. And some guy was disrespecting Brendan Shanahan. I got so irrationally mad about it. And not to the point where I would have never fought this guy over it, but I was so pissed off.

And you just kind of grow out of that. So I don't think you're actually a huge dick just because you argued about Joe Burrow at a sub shop. But I think what you said, Ryan, yeah, yeah, if it's like a habit, maybe like check yourself. But if it's a one time thing and this guy got hurt, like, and you just say, I'm sorry, maybe you buy him a couple subs here and there because you guys

like going out to get subs. But there's really not much more that you can do other than say, hey, dude, it kind of got weird. That's my bad. Give him some subs. Yeah, like the older me is not doing a good enough job realizing how

little i probably would have cared at 20 but you know clearly this guy cares he even though the friend may be a hothead there's something that tells me the guy writing the email this isn't your first time like if you felt compelled to argue about burrow with strangers um that my guess would be when you get drunk sometimes you probably make some dumb arguments which you know it's not specific to you but that's what you have to figure out. Is your friend mad because this is a pattern or is your friend mad because he. That would have ruined like a week for me. But if you care that much and it is a pattern, then maybe you do something like that. But at 20, you know, look, guys don't do a very good job with this stuff ever. 20 is probably the worst time, you know, when you're actually developing real relationships because part of that like cares about 15 years old. real relationships because part of that like cares about 15 years old but um i mean there there are things that you could do but if he's not going to want to talk to you then you're going to have to do something that surprises him with an act that shows that you're sorry although i got to get back to sir rudy being heated about the whalers because you are

you're not a boston fan you're not a new york fan you like the niners you like the orlando magic um you being prideful about the whalers cause you're from Connecticut shocks me. Cause I could think of you in the 1700s just going like, look, it's, it's, you know, with their, it's their boats. The only reason we're even here in the new world is because of England's boats. So, you know, you guys want to start a revolution. If it wasn't for the English, like we're all sort of English. I could see you being a loyalist. So that surprises me that you would be loyal to anything having to do with Connecticut, even though you've kind of been everywhere else with your sports fandom. That surprised the hell out of me. Well, I always say like growing up in

Connecticut, like you either subscribe to the New York or the Boston section. And I, and I just never really did. Uh, but you know, growing up, I went to way where his games at the civic center, like downtown, what's up Hartford. Um, now the XL now the excel center uh you know here it's like yukon and that's about it now but back then you know the 1997 when they left like i would go with my dad and it was fun games i remember brendan shanahan it was a fun team they weren't very good but like i was like hockey's awesome this is sweet so that's the only team that i feel like i ever had like a personal connection to so yeah i was i was people here i mean you know ryan because you spent time here like i think the people that are like bring back the wayward, there's

a yearly convention. That's a little bit weird. They're never coming back. Sorry. It's Hartford. It's not a huge market. New England's rising little star? Yeah, Hartford has it, dude. Don't forget that. No, when they were here and I was a kid, that was awesome. That was nostalgic. The fact that they left when I was, I think, nine

or so, it was... That's always been my local team, I guess. And do not slander Brennan Shanahan. I was my guy. And the guy didn't know my dad was with us because my dad just sat there. It was bored out of his mind. And the whale wanted overtime. And these old men that were so mad that we were rooting for the Bruins the whole time turned around and fucking like wanted to go. Like men wanted to go. We were like 13.

And then my father stepped in. And that ended that transaction. So, all right. This is a weird one. I'm not even sure if it's real or not, but it's so different. I'm going to read it. I steal to feel alive is the headline. 510-155. Pandemic has made me a routine slave. I go to bed looking forward to having a morning coffee. I order my Starbucks in advance via mobile app every day. A few weeks ago, I instinctively grabbed a grande, that's a medium, iced coffee and walked out. A few hours later, I realized I was drinking Sean's iced coffee. It took you hours to drink one iced coffee. I don't know if I believe that. He says sorry to Sean through the email. Not going to lie, I felt a little thrill. The next day, I intentionally did not order in advance, walked up to the mobile kiosk

that is relatively unattended, grabbed another iced coffee, and walked out. I felt alive the entire walk home. Such a thrill. Note that the baristas recognize me but never use my first name. I've been intermittently doing this ad hoc for the last month. It's the closest

I'll get to fulfilling my social fantasy of robbing a bank. Am I a bad person? Yes, for the inconvenience you're causing, but I totally get what you're doing. Do you have some sympathy for this person, Kyle? A little bit. I was really good friends with a guy who normally would be a couple drinks in and then he stole the ornament off the chinese restaurant counter and it's like wait what and it's like we're leaving and and it was actually a whole thing for that one and like they they said it cost out they had him on the camera as the cops came and he took that this golden cat that was

like on top of where you pay to on the counter but it was like stuff like that it would be like wait did you fucking take something dude why um and he he thought it was hilarious and i get it um but i don't know parties houses do we just take stuff i get it steal stuff from guys houses yeah yeah that's a bummer didn't like i hated when people stole shit from our house i would i was hell we were just talking about a story about a princeton hat the other day uh from college that just came up uh everybody used to steal north faces in college i remember like you go you go to like downtown yeah like bar or whatever toads in new haven and you couldn't put your north face down

so you'd have to wear it the entire time or else somebody's just gonna let me let me ask you this dude if someone steals your north face do you steal a to wear it the entire time or else somebody's just going to steal it. Let me ask you this, dude. If someone steals your North Face, do you steal a jacket and keep the thing going or do you is it wintertime with no coat for you? I would not steal someone else's coat. You wouldn't steal a coat if someone stole your coat? No way. I have honor. That's funny. One time somebody

stole my coat and then I stole somebody's coat and I actually ended up stealing my friend's coat and he was outside with no coat and saw me with his coat so I had to run back and steal a different coat. Maybe do like a coat swap where you just leave your coat there and you just take a nicer North Face. Well, that's when I ended up with that woman's Columbia jacket

from way back. That's when I ended up with that thing. XL woman's. Yeah, it always fascinated me whenever I would find out about a guy that liked to steal. If there was somebody, I'm not going to name who it is,inates me. Like whenever I would find out about a guy that liked to steal, if there was somebody, I'm not going to name who it is who told me about like how they used to go to

seven 11 and get a large big gulp or whatever. I don't know. It's big gulp specific to seven 11 and they would put like, yes, mini deodorants and razors and shaving cream in them and then pay for the big gulp so they buy all their toiletries by filling a big gulp without any actual liquid in it right and then that's how they would and i was just like wait you did that and it was like yeah hell yeah

like and so there's definitely um a thrill i guess that you get out of it this guy sucks all right first of all the coffee thing because you're fucking up the whole routine just like anybody taking somebody else's jacket because now everybody else else, the worst ones, the bike seat one. I know that they've probably made advancements in locking up bike seats, but that was always the thing at UVM. One guy would take a bike seat and then it's just on domino. Like someone has to.

Yeah. It's just butterfly effect. I can't talk today. Butterfly effect of, of bike seats where it's just now it's on because one guy decided one person decided i'm stealing that bike seat and you just start a mass hysteria throughout campus because everybody's just stealing everybody else's shit so um i'm i'm anti this stuff because that just means you're fucking up the whole coffee routine for everybody so whatever your thrill is but you know get a video game system instead how old is this guy i would understand when i'm

not even sure i would feel like i won i would feel like i won he said when i was younger intermittently doing this ad hoc for the last month i i sent somebody that was bored and they just want to see what we would say so but i mean do you have i get it do you have friends well see i can't really say do you have friends kyle because i, I can't really say do you have friends, Kyle, because I think we've known you long enough now on this podcast that you are not afraid of a discount. And no, so listen, this was like way back,

way back, probably freshman year of college done. But it was like, you know, I just wouldn't pay for a meal sometimes. Not like in a restaurant, but like in the college meal. I just wouldn't pay for it. That's not a big deal. You know? That's not a big deal. Perhaps, perhaps the GPS went

missing. I don't know. All I'm saying is like, is back in the day when it was like, it seemed like when you're not thinking about the other stuff and you just, it seems like you won. And because it seems like you lose in so many other aspects of your life and then you fucking won and you got a free thing. And because of, because of you doing it and you feel like yeah i'm being smart or something but like once all you got to do is get caught with for something serious one time and you know but see you're making it wow this is never ever okay it's never ever true but what you're really doing is you're ignoring the bigger picture here like where i live in manhattan beach it's a free-for-all with everybody's packages being stolen because you can follow the ups fedex trucks or whatever it's a complete problem out here because you can hit up a million spots

immediately and then just get onto rosecrans and then you're gone all right i mean that's just what happens i watch the videos it happens throughout the night constantly and i don't even know how the police can ever stop the entire thing and so when you sit there and you think like hey cool i'm winning because i got all this free shit like do you know how many things you're fucking up like the kids present that isn't going to be there now you know and everybody can say oh everybody manhattan beach has money or whatever who cares and i get that there's something that doesn't but it's just not the point is that when you keep doing stuff like this there's actually like impactful things that you're doing where you're screwing up a lot of things so um i'm i don't know i i don't uh i know it's a coffee and it's whatever and this guy

if you think about sean dude sean's coffee's gone every day this guy's probably what the hell and that and you're gonna get caught because sean's gonna be like my coffee is never here every day and they're gonna they're gonna catch on to you at some point this guy's this guy said he's just grabbing random ones every now and then so from random starbucks it sounds like and then you know the the rationale is like who cares starbucks you know sean goes where's my coffee and then starbucks has to make him another one who cares starbucks makes all this money like i can understand shout out to bottlenecks dude that's how you get bottlenecks in starbucks i don't like that i feel like you made it about and you know what no no no and and you know what happens is no you're right i'm coming

around now don't steal the gps don't steal coffee. I'm coming around because now what's going to happen is you're going to have to ask somebody who's busy for your mobile order at Starbucks because they're not going to just leave them out anymore because Sean doesn't have a coffee ever. So now that's, that's the ripple effect is that you can't grab and go. You got to flag somebody down who's making their fourth espresso. And that takes the longest to make as everyone knows. I'm just saying like now it's not going to be the impact is going to be everyone else is slower now because sean doesn't have a coffee enough times and he's gotta he's gotta let him know so eventually the coffee stealers are going to make us all lose so you're right uh yeah i

don't think anybody expected me to come on the pod and say you know i'm pro stealing i'm down with this uh i just find a different thrill like jump out of a plane i don't know like you do something else i think i think this is like i know you think it's like kind of petty or whatever and it is sort of petty but i don't know i think there's maybe you need to like upgrade the thrill game here to stop stealing from starbucks i remember i think i've told the story once before so you can always check me on these things but i had uh a college you know friend circle where there was there was one or two guys in the group that like loved stealing shit loved it breaking into cars stealing ski racks and they started like planning this stuff out and one of the guys was loaded loaded right and so you know they had some thing they did in the middle

of the night i think they stole a couple ski racks or maybe a bike or something like that and then had to go like store it somewhere because they couldn't bring it back to the dorm room and then i remember later on and again this is always a weird time in your life too because you're meeting guys you don't want to seem like a fucking narc so it's not like you're going to tell on anybody but at the same time like i i still would tell people how i felt if i were you know put a position where i wasn't offering it up without any prompting but it was being discussed and the guy was kind of bragging about it and i was like hey you don't think that's kind of fucked that you just like it would be a lot better if people just didn't steal from each

other like do you realize like you're just taking another college kid's ski rack and who knows what his situation is like you're just going to justify everything being like oh everybody uvm has money or whatever i go on the top of everything else i go the other guy's one of the richest people we know and he thinks this is fucking cool and he was doing it to kind of get acceptance from this other group of the friends and the guy that wasn't rich that loved to steal told me he goes i think it's great that he's rich but he understands the value of things and will steal and i'm like that's the dumbest fucking rationalization right and that's who that guy was and again like he was a friend other than that like i still was friends with him i loved hanging out with him and all this different stuff but he was so convincing of himself like not convincing to anybody else but his rationalization the way

he would be like well no it's actually great that he's rich and steals because he doesn't think he's above it. And we're like, okay, good luck in life with that approach. Let's get to another email. We got some time here. All right. Stat 65. Yo, 205, 25. He's giving us this vaccination deal.

Okay. Got it. Drink of choice is whiskey. Check out Wyoming whiskey. Actually, I did. I put on 30 pounds in the gym over the past year, but the joints are starting to wear down.

You went from 175 to 205 in a year at 25 years old? Maybe. Haven't cut hair since COVID started. I've had people tell me I look like Tarzan, Fabio, or even Thor. I can tell you there's one that's a lot better than the other two.

Well, good for you, dude. Very easygoing guy. Tends to avoid conflict. Helps me get along with everyone I meet. I don't know. I feel like this one's real, though, although the setup to this felt kind of. All right. So here we go.

A couple months ago, my girlfriend, now of six months, and I booked our trip. I booked a trip together, our first together, to Portugal for the week between Christmas and New Year's. So this is coming up. While this may seem a bit soon for Big Trip, we are both very well-traveled internationally. I've been itching to travel again with COVID restrictions, borders for the past couple of years. Not trying to be snobby about the whole thing, but I grew up living abroad and have been to over 50 countries. If you need any recommendations, hit me up. That doesn't sound snobby to me.

It sounds great. I really love this girl and definitely see a long-term future with her. When we first started dating, I was not looking for a relationship, pretty much enjoying single life in New York City, but I met her and was smitten. We're both going home to visit family the week before Christmas and then fly out of our respective hometowns to meet in Lisbon. With the recent Omicron concerns, there's a real possibility that both of us may not be able to meet the negative COVID test requirements to get to Portugal. Based on our connecting flights, she needs a negative PCR test while I only need a rapid. We booked the flights at a time when we thought COVID restrictions were lessening without thinking, booked non-refundable tickets. Dilemma,

if she were to test positive and I tested negative, should I go on the trip alone? All right. Reason four, I dropped a big chunk of change in my ticket she paid for her own and i don't want to eat it i feel perfectly comfortable traveling alone i think i would still enjoy the trip sure you would dude i'm sure you would have a great time i know if i were to test positive and she tested negative i would want her to go on the trip anyway and enjoy herself i would pay her back for all the airbnbs and rental car that we already split. So she would just have to eat her airline ticket. Knowing her, she would probably figure out a way to get a full refund anyway. Ultimately, it doesn't make sense for me to cancel a trip that I'm perfectly able to go on. Reasons against.

She might resent me going on this trip alone. For me, it's obvious that she'd go on the trip alone in this situation. But I fear she may not see it the same way. We've both been very excited to finally travel together and experience Portugal for the first time. And I realize going alone could damage our relationship also portugal might not even be the same as visiting it at another time when there are less restrictions also it is winter and the beaches would not be an option anyway yeah tell her that hey i'm gonna go to portugal alone because you're stuck here but the beaches aren't even going to be that great it won't be as many hot

people around yeah also i may get coveted and get stuck yeah use that too hey i might get quarantined it might be a mistake for me even going so i'll definitely have you stay here and i'll go along all right didn't know who else to turn to this is a bad idea it's a bad idea unless she is the coolest fucking girlfriend in the world all right this is not going to go over well do you know how weird it's going to be say you go and come back be like hey do you want to see all my pictures from the portugal trip that we both planned together but i went on by myself it's not going to work dude it's not at 25 35 it doesn't work the other reason i'm telling you i tried to do this i did it and guess what it's all i fucking heard about leading up to and then when i was there and then when I came back.

And it was a good time and all, but it's just you're planning. You're giving her a chance. If you guys are getting along this great, and I understand it's tough when you're sitting there being like, all right, all these different restrictions and who knows what's going to happen. Well, I mean, eventually you're 25. You're going to be able to travel again at some point. All I'm telling you is she may be cool. She may tell you the right things. You've come up with reasons why you think it's okay. And what you're doing is you're selling yourself your own bullshit here. Almost every situation, like the idea of you scrolling through and be like, oh, hey, look, it's another iPhone memory. This is when I went and had small plates by myself in this amazing little village.

It's not going to be cool. She's not going to go again. We'll go again together. I'll know all the spots now. So, but this is only if, right? This is only if she has covid right that's it yes and so he's the one with the rapid test so he's the one who could find out day of and she's basically is going to know a day before right at least so that's basically what he's saying is like he can't even be like oh i'm already in my connecting flight like it's it would basically be she would know the day before and they'd have a conversation

about this is what he's saying right basically yeah but what he's doing is he's leading up and by the way it's also Christmas like a couple days before Christmas going hey I got a thought if you test negative and I test you know or whatever if I'm if I'm in the clear

and you're not how do you feel about me going solo? I think you do it the other way around though I think you say hey if I test positive like you know hey I'd be cool with you going like play it that way be like hey you can go alone I wouldn't have a problem with that and see what she says and if she says oh yeah okay

then maybe you actually have a leg to stand on there but if she's like no we can never do that then you know your answer that might be genius dude I don't know I think I would sniff that out immediately then maybe you actually have a leg to stand on there. But if she's like, no, we can never do that, then you know your answer. That might be genius, dude. I don't know. I think I would sniff that out immediately. She's remotely intelligent.

She's remotely intelligent. She's going to go, okay, so what are you actually saying here? That means you're going to go by yourself. And look, sometimes stuff's inconsistent. I think it's great that you're totally cool with her going on her own. I get that you don't want to eat the ticket. I understand all that. But I'm saying in most cases, if we're playing the law averages here, even if she tells you, cool, I think that's awesome,

you're setting yourself up for, I don't know, you've been together six months. If this is somebody you might want to spend the rest of your life with, do you want to go six months in, have this kind of conflict over something this stupid and avoidable? So I would I don't know. I think sometimes the age thing for me being around longer, I'll be like, why would you want this fight?

Or at 25, I would have been like, what's wrong with you? Ticket's not refundable. Of course I'm going. Waves? All right. Thank you to Kyle and Steve. Great week. Great week of podcasts and uh gear enough for next week too so we'll uh we're not going anywhere we'll be around and uh please subscribe prime podcast

you Thank you.