The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Warriors Meltdown and Two Players to Worry About, Plus a '90s Music Nostalgia Session With Rob Harvilla

Episode Date: November 29, 2023

It’s Wednesday, which means Ryen’s got Hump Day Hoops! Could the Warriors' run finally be coming to a close (00:43)? What’s going on with Zion? The numbers are still good, but is he even the best player on his team? Plus, The Ringer’s own Rob Harvilla authored the book '60 Songs That Explain the '90s' and jumped on the pod to relive some '90s nostalgia (34:33). Plus, is one guy getting scammed into a trip to Hawaii on Life Advice (1:13:55)? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Rob Harvilla Producers: Cliff Augustin, Steve Ceruti, and Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's nba open is deep we're going for it uh we're going to run through all the great stuff from last night and some stuff from this week two players that i'm worried about one apology that i am not issuing we're talking music today rob Harvilla is a writer and he has a book and a podcast, 60 songs that explain the nineties. We go deep on music from that era and we've got life advice. Enjoy. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But

blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We're going to open with NBA today. There's a lot of things that I want to talk about, but I want to start with this. Credit to the NBA and Commissioner Adam Silver. I'm not the biggest change guy all the time. I do think we're changing a lot of things, a lot. When the in-season tournament was first announced, my biggest thing is always, well, what are we doing? We're just creating a new television product,

which in a way is kind of what it is. But then once I looked into it, and once I talked to somebody from the league about it, it was kind of explained to me. I was like, oh, okay, so these are just going to be regular season games with different things attached to them, and then we're going to kind of figure it out. And it's worked.

Last night's games were incredible. The energy in Sacramento for that comeback win against Golden State, I just don't know that we would get that in late November in a normal, regularly seasoned game. So credit to that. And also, I think the best part is that once we see it play out in Vegas with the tournament and then a champion then you'll know the next years what it actually is now granted a lot of this is extra television product whether it's the playing game or the expansion of the college football playoff or the expansion of the extra team in the nfl and all that stuff so sometimes when it's like hey everybody gets in why aren't you more into this it's like well you know i think really we're just rooting for more television revenue. But in the case of how the players have responded,

I'm actually a little shocked that it felt like playoff basketball as much as it has throughout. In the courts, in the uniforms, and all that different stuff. I don't know if we can make fun of the heat culture jersey yet. I'm ready to, as much as I respect heat culture. I just had to give in. I had to bend the knee during the playoffs last year, but I do think there'll be a moment, maybe three years from now, where we're like, remember that Jersey that actually said heat culture, I'm ready to do it. I just don't know that I want to do it yet publicly. So a lot of credit for a league that,

you know, at times I'll be as frustrated as you are about some things that happen. I'm like, what's going on there? These games were great. The only win for the Warriors is that there will be no Chris Paul in-season tournament championship ring jokes to be made. They had to win by 12 with the point differential. They were up 24 and they lost so let's start with that game and then i'll get to a couple of the others so sacramento erasing that lead i was wondering if they were going to celebrate an 11 point loss that would have gotten them into the in-season

tournament how that was going to play out uh when draymond got the technical i was like what would be funnier than if golden state wins by 11 and the technical was the one point that was going to play out. When Draymond got the technical, I was like, what would be funnier than if Golden State wins by 11? And the technical was the one point that was the difference. After the 16 finals, in a weird way, I was like, that'll be another addition to the resume. The comeback happened, really, it wasn't the third quarter, even though Sacramento took 20 free throws. I mean, part of it, yes, was the third quarter, but you thought like, okay, in the fourth quarter, Golden State still being up. And by the way, and I don't even know what I'm talking about. Am I talking about the comeback to get into the tournament or the comeback to actually get the win? But the 20 free throws

in the third quarter appointed contention for Warriors fans. But look, man, Golden State fouls. They just do. And despite Golden State still playing well enough offensively in the third, I thought it carried over to the fourth where a Golden State team with the guys with really accomplished resumes started acting like a bunch of lottery picks who hadn't done anything and complaining the entire game. And it took them kind of out of what they wanted to do. But I'm not trying to discredit Sacramento because their guards, at least Golden State's guards, once Chris Paul is out, once Gary Payton is out, the guards to just get to the lane whenever they wanted to. The funny thing is, is Sacramento, who

I don't think I can take seriously enough to get out of the West. If we're talking about the teams that actually can get out of the West and play in NBA Finals, I'm not there with Sacramento because I still don't think they have enough size. You are going to have to have size options to get through Denver. You just are. And we'll get to Minnesota and everything else. Maybe even Phoenix a little bit, but I'm still not sure. That's why when you look to Golden State and Los Angeles last year in the playoffs, you go, you know, look, this is an awful matchup for the Warriors. Whenever LeBron or AD want to be right at the rim, they're just going to be right at the rim. There's not enough size. It can't just be Kevon Looney. They need somebody else. And right now for them, that's Sharich. So having said all of those things about concerns about how Sacramento will match up with specific teams in the West, Sacramento last night was too big for Golden State.

So that's not something Sacramento gets to say very often. So the meltdown continues late. The other thing that I thought Sacramento did a great job with was late in the game, knowing that there's no Chris Paul outlet, they started trapping Curry. And a lot of times when you start to trap Curry, really, if you try to trap anybody, multiple possessions, like I saw it the other night with Halliburton, where the other team was like, oh, we're just going to send two at you. And so you might get them for a possession, but normally, you end up exposing yourself to a really easy basket on the other end. But Sasha, the 6'8

beast, was part of the trap, and it just kept working. It was taking Curry out of God mode of getting back into this game. Sacramento's 10-6 now, 6-8 in the West. I've already talked about the size differential here. The weird thing that's also happening with them with that 10-6 record is the point differential isn't very good on the season, but they're also 12th in offense. They were number one last year.

The defense has improved from 24th to 17th so far, but that offensive number has dipped. I know Keegan Murray's had his issues, and he did not play last year. The defense has improved from 24th to 17th so far, but that offensive number has dipped. I know Keegan Murray's had his issues, and he did not play last night. I don't think he's going to shoot 20% from three because he's not asked to do a lot. He has a very low-stress offensive role for this team, so I'm not going to worry about that all that much. Now, Kerr, after the game, talked about turnovers and fouls. They had 20 turnovers for Golden State against Sacramento, took 42 free throws. But again, Golden State fouls. You can't just point to that and say, well, that's why the officiating. But Draymond wanted to. When you look at some of the free throw numbers here and Kerr saying,

we need to be better with it. Okay, well, Golden State's 27th in... Excuse me, Golden State allows 27 free throw attempts per game by the opponent. That's 28th in the NBA. The only teams worse than them are the Pacers and the Pistons. They're 26th in turnovers per game. So when it occurs like it has to get better, it's not going to get better. Last season, they were the league worst team at almost 16 turnovers per game, and they were 25th in free throw attempts allowed per game at like 25. So

they're actually allowing two more, but they were just as bad when you start looking at where they were ranking wise with other teams. The turnover thing has always been part of their identity, but they used to just be so awesome. It didn't matter. In 17-18, one of their championship years, they were 26th in turnovers per game. And 15-16, when they won all of the games and lost in the finals, they were 25th that year. But they were great. They were filthy.

Those are arguably the greatest teams in NBA history, or at least in the conversation. The 17-18, that's my pick. And they could turn the ball over all day because it just didn't matter because they were also awesome defensively on top of what was the most absurd collection of scores in a starting five. So they can't do that anymore. And this is the same thing as last year. But even with the free throw stuff, hold on to a four-point lead. This reminded me of the Utah loss last year where I changed the channel as I was going through the night of games. I'm like, okay, they got this one.

Let me get onto a different game. And then I remember, I don't know, a minute or two later, I'm like, wait, they, they lost to the jazz. Like what happened? There was a bad inbounds. Well, it felt a lot like last night because even as you're about to blow the lead, even as it's clear that Sacramento's going to keep it close enough to move on to see Curry get double team in the back court. And then Draymond's late to recognize it.

That's a turnover on the pass. And then there's a Draymond turnover where clay cuts the wrong way. And the clay stuff is real. I understand he's prideful. I'm a clay fan, but it's just, it's just not, he's not there. And I don. I understand he's prideful. I'm a Klay fan, but he's not there. And I don't know if it's coming back.

He's 40% from the floor overall, career-worst 36% from three. And there's just some movement stuff with him. I'm not expecting him to be peak athletic Klay. That guy's never coming back. But some of the benching stuff I think is absurd because now with the injuries and the uncertainty of the health of some of the other wings around him, I'm not quite sure. Maybe they bring Moody back, but Kerr didn't want to do it. Kerr also had an awful, like one of the all-time awful challenges on the Curry kickout thing at three, which Curry does now more, I'd say, the last couple years than some of the other guys used to live with it.

Like Curry's trying to do it a little bit more, getting a leg out there and getting that foul. But you shouldn't challenge that one and you lose the timeout on that challenge a timeout they could have used when they were trapped in the backcourt and Curry didn't know what to do because none of his teammates were paying attention that was a colossal meltdown by everybody involved with the Warriors they're eight and ten and you know there's another Draymond part of it too where Draymond comes back after the suspension. He's mad when he got elbowed on the baseline. I think he embellished it.

He got elbowed, but he stayed down. I was like, man, is he going to come up with a face full of blood? Nope. He's still mad about it. So he wants to get a technical. He gets one on arguing a carry call during a time stoppage. Well, the carry call that wasn't called, but whatever. Everybody carries the whole fucking game. And then he decides to just rough up Harrison Barnes

at midcourt and gets the foul and was somehow psyched about it. He was like, you just gave him a cheap foul. All you're doing is fouling in the second half. Why would you want to do it again? It was just because he was mad. He just wanted to be mad and have everybody see how mad he was. And then he stared down the official, which I kind of can't believe he didn't get ejected. Jeff Van Gundy nailed this years ago. He was like the threshold for what refs put up with with Draymond is so far beyond any other player in the league. If any, almost any other player, you know, other than LeBron or like the elite of the elite with the guys with enough cachet were to stare down the official after it already got the technical the way he did.

And Draymond, I think at least knew a little bit where he's like let me get away from this let me actually turn away let me stare at him let him know how I feel but I'll turn away I'm not going to go too long with this it's funny because Draymond thinks everyone's out to get him you could argue he's the most protected player the way he's officiated and the leash that he's given throughout the course of a game but as all all of this is happening, you're still blowing the lead and you're making a ton of mistakes and now Sacramento moves on. So congrats to the Kings.

A little bit on Milwaukee here and Miami. Miami, this was a really valiant effort from a team. Again, heat culture. No Jimmy Butler in this one. Down early, they come back. A minute on Jaimeime jaquez this guy does everything okay he is special the heat did it again their front office like consistently every year i'm like man you guys do a great job with this stuff and they do it on the margins you

know everybody can kind of figure out who the stars are uh and i'm not even talking about the draft like just the acquisition of the guy that's already really good. Like, cool, you got a guy who's really good, but they do it really well. And, you know, you see Struis move on and you think, is he going to be as good post Miami? And honestly, there's times Mitchell out where I've watched him where Struis is the only other option besides Garland. So he's been pretty good. You've got Vincent in L.A., but you lose some of these pieces and what caleb martin did last year in the playoffs like look again what he did specifically in that

celtic series um because he's not that guy but yet he's somebody that is still very important and a huge win for the front office so when we look at hakez you're like okay he's he's old school he's got the post stuff. He's got the footwork. He's got the up and unders. He's got a lot of these cool things to him. Like, all right, this is a nice little role player. Oh, wait, now he's playing point guard.

Now he's initiating the offense. Well, yeah, okay, because he makes great passes. He makes the right decisions. I mean, it's a bit cliche because I always hate when it's like, oh, he's a four-year college player. Yeah, there's a lot of those guys that are terrible too, by the way, who can't sniff any kind of guaranteed money in the NBA. But you can see with Hawkins, whether it was great coaching when he was a kid, great coaching in high school, great coaching in college, and now great coaching again with the Miami Heat. It just, the to-do list for what he can do in a game is absurd. You want to

stick him in the corner and have him hit threes? I guess he's going to do that now in the NBA. He's 39% from three. When he was at UCLA, he was 28% and 32% his last two years. I think he was 31% his freshman year. He had the aberration season his sophomore year where he hit a decent number from outside. But NBA people will tell you, hey, if the free throws are there, there's usually a good chance the three can develop with better coaching and shooting coaching. And then he decides to run the break and kicks it out for what was a great look at three. So I love the guy, man. I love him with the heat. And when you watch what the heat do, when you imagine a five with Butler back, even though Lowry can look washed certain nights,

Lowry's still going to be a good decision maker. Love is terrific passing. Bam is terrific passing. You know, by the way, Bam's the leading scorer for the heat, not Butler this year. Butler is really good on the drive and kick stuff. And then you got Jaquez out there with him. It's that new concept. Maybe it's not entirely new, but I'll just call it the Oklahoma City thing we're seeing

in Orlando as well, is how many people can you put on the floor that can make a decision with the basketball in their hands? It was kind of like that Raptors team in 19, which jumped out during their playoff run. So the other thing that was happening here, at least on the Milwaukee side, was the Middleton issue defensively. Because we saw a lot of it, especially in that first half against Boston in that game where Milwaukee found a way to come all the way back and make a close bus to one. But it is Middleton season. And I don't know.

Unfortunately, I think it may go into June. Teams are hunting him big time. teams are hunting him big time. There was five straight Miami possessions where three different players went at him and whether it was the actual drive with the ball to try to finish at the rim and score, or they looked for it. You know, they were like sniffing around Middleton spray going, Hey, do I have an angle here? Or is he going to be late on the closeout or any of this kind of stuff? And this isn't entirely new. I think there's times in the past for Milwaukee, even when we felt they were the best team in the East, or at least like, hey, if you're picking them, you're not necessarily going to be wrong. Some of the issues defensively on the perimeter,

and then it was also sometimes like, how come Giannis isn't allowed to defend other guys? Well, they're letting Giannis defend everybody now, but the numbers aren't exactly working out, not specifically Giannis, but as a team. But the good thing about Middleton is that Miami did a really good job of extending their pressure against Dame late, which is something you want to do because they start that action so far away from the basket. I mean, it's like 10 feet behind the three-point line, and it clogs that part of it up.

But then Middleton ended up being a big guy for them offensively. He hit the absurd inbounds, corner three that ended up being a two. He hit another bucket late, and then really the play that kind of sealed it was a big, big push towards Dame, clog up the screen and roll, but so far away from the basket, and you have to freak out about it because Dame just gets

any kind of space left or right off that screen. It feels like he likes to go right more on it. He's just going to pull, and he had one of those too in this game late, but Middleton got the catch, that screen it feels like he likes to go right more on it um you know he's just gonna pull and he had one of those two in this game late but middleton got the catch made the perfect pass got it to brooke lopez and that was dunk so look there's a lot worse options than um and i didn't want to say it that way because now it sounds like i'm down on him like middleton's a really nice outlet hey figure something out with his size his his handle, his pull-up ability, and the kind of pass that we saw from him last night.

But I do wonder with Beauchamp and some of the other options that Milwaukee may have defensively, if that ever becomes an issue like in a playoff game. All right. By the way, I was looking at some of the Milwaukee defensive numbers because they're 13-5 now with a game behind Boston for the one seed. So record-wise, you're like, oh, they figured it out. They're fourth on offense, but they're 21st on defense. Last year, they were 15th on offense, but fourth on defense.

I started trying to sort through it, being like, is the defense actually getting better during this run? Not really. You can try to sort it however you want, and there's just some bad numbers in there. So I don't know if they figured that one out. Okay. Speaking of the D, the number one defensive team in the NBA today, the Minnesota Timberwolves. Incredible win last night at home against the Thunder. This is going to be fun if this keeps happening for a while. And that's kind

of what it feels like. And again, the rosters change and things get different. The biggest thing that I was looking at here was, okay, if Gobert's on Chet, are you playing in what Oklahoma City wants you to do by trying to pull or having Chet pull Gobert away? Chet in November is 19-8-3, 52% from the floor, 38% from three, two blocks per game. He had 33-36 in the last 10 days. That's something. It was kind of the old Perzingis approach on Dallas where if they went up

against the Lakers, they wanted Anthony Davis to try to have to go out and guard Perzingis. Now, I wouldn't say I was watching every single possession and where Gobert would set up. Chet didn't shoot it well at all last night. But late in the game, and I'm saying specifically late here, I still think Gobert was doing a great job of trying to stay close enough to the paint to avoid being completely out on an island. Now, maybe early in the possession, he would follow Chet. He would follow him around the screen. He would show if there was any kind of switch or something like that. But it wasn't like they were pulling Gobert out in a

switch and then attacking him off the dribble because Gobert was clogging up a lot because he was really good defensively. But I don't know. There's a lot of times during a playoff, so you'll watch game one and game two play out, and you think of the matchups and the rotations, and oh, look, they're attacking this. You're you're like well that's not going to work and then the game just completely changes within the series where somebody you thought may be a huge boost to you ends up going the other way and you know vice versa so late uh it was really really good stuff there where i think gobert was like i i may leak off of him a little bit more, even though Chet hit a huge three there late, but overall the shooting was six of 20. A little note on Chet, Chet's better with the ball in his hands right now than when Banyama is. He is. But something

Chet does, and he did it a bunch last night, which is frustrating. If you're as good of a shooter as we all think he's going to be, and the numbers would back up, if you're your size wide open at the free throw line, take the shot. Chet, I guess against other teams, is comfortable up faking, working off the dribble, getting even closer to the basket, right? Like that seems like that would be a good thing. Get closer to the basket if you can do it. Against Gobert, it isn't. He was turning down wide open 15-foot jumpers to then dribble and then get stuck and then go like, I can't get a shot off against this guy. Minnesota's defense across the board, it's just really impressive.

Towns is always going to be somebody that I'm a little worried about. There's always a handful of drives in a game from Towns. I shouldn't say handful because I think he only averages five drives per game. His free throw point rates are actually better than what the eye test would tell you. You're like, what the hell's going on there? There's always going to be missed rotations. And look, guys miss rotations. But it just frustrates me all the time when it's like, as a defender, if you don't know where your man is, if somebody were like, okay, timeout, do you know where your guy is?

I don't. That should never be the answer. Should never be the answer in basketball. I'd be like, yeah, I just, I don't know where he went, man. Just lost track of him but even without Jaden McDaniels who on the ball is spectacular I think Alexander Walker is motivated it's almost like everybody's playing good defense and everybody else wants to play good defense because of it and then Ant goes out in the third quarter and they still find a way to win this game because Troy Brown was terrific also very active they were

hitting some ridiculous shots. He had 17 points. But that pivots into a bigger issue with the Timberwolves, and that is this. Timberwolves fans want an apology from a lot of us. No is my answer. The Gobert trade is still a bad trade. It is. It's still a bad trade. It is. It's still a bad trade.

Come on. Like if you could do it over again and get everything back, you'd say no? And the other part, despite the defensive numbers, is Gobert still is not defensively what Gobert was with Utah. Like peak Gobert in Utah. Like this is good. It's not what

that was because that was absurd. And I would just say this, the good news for Minnesota fans is the fact that we're taking the Timberwolves seriously as, hey, could they get out of the West? That's the win. That's the win right now, because I think that's fair. I'm not sure if I'm there with you, but the fact that I'm even thinking about it or anybody else is even thinking about it that has nothing to do, just neutral national guys, that's the win. That's the thing you should be excited about. So don't be asking for apologies because a trade was bad. Ask for an apology, I'd say not after 17 games, but when you're about to win the second round.

And if it's against Oklahoma City, I can't wait to see how it would play out with all of this stuff. Last couple things. Two things I'm worried about, and it's two players. I'm worried about Scoot, man. I'm not, but I am 8 games into his career So don't even listen to this I shouldn't even say it

But I am worried It hasn't looked great Can't shoot But it wasn't going to happen overnight because he knew the shot was not necessarily a weapon for him uh the numbers are 35 and 23 actually seems high if you watch him but it's not the shooting because we already knew that it's the drives it's a lot of drives where the only reason he's even attempting these is because he's too young to figure out it's not working. And I know there's a number that came up. Haberstroh had it on the broadcast where his

percentage at the rim was actually higher than a lot of these other players. And maybe that number tells you that. But when I watch the drives, it's like, that one's not going to work. That one's not going to work. Now the positive, super competitive, wants to be a good teammate, isn't looking to take the ball the entire time. I think in a way he's almost hyper, like too hyper sometimes during the games. There was something where, I don't know if it was a ringer thing. Now I'm wondering if it was even a text thread where somebody was sincerely doing a redraft of the entire class, I think seven games into the season, and they had Derek Lively fifth, who Shingun just worked last night, but Dallas got the win.

Lively's a good at-the-rim help guy. Lively's not. You couldn't figure out what Shingun was doing to him. And Alpey's like, can I just have the ball every single time? I think I saw Jalen Green take one shot in the fourth quarter because the best option was Shingun was doing to him. And obviously, can I just have the ball every single time? I think I saw Jalen Green take like one shot in the fourth quarter because the best option was Shingun, but Kyrie went off and there you go. But yeah, the scoop part of it for me who really liked him as a prospect, you're like, I'd like this to look better, but it's completely unfair. So this is not a definitive statement. It is simply an observation that as I've watched it, I'm like, yeah, this isn't great right now. And that's fine.

That's fine. It'd be better if it were great, but I'm not into writing people off. Oh yeah, like on the redraft thing again, I don't even know if it was a real thing, but like somebody had scoot 11 and like lively fits. I was like, I feel like this is quick. I feel like this at that point, I think he played three games. It's like, I feel, I feel like this is a little quick.

It's a little quick for me to even do this. I should be waiting until February before I'm saying I'm actually worried about him. But it's also OK to say from what I've seen. Not quite there yet. OK, this guy's been in the league for a while now.

His name's Zion Williamson, and I'm worried about him as well. Pelicans are 9-9. The no-CJ thing's hurting him. Dyson just can't hit any shots, even though, again, he's young. We'll see. Not as young as Scoop,

or at least on NBA game experience. New Orleans, we kind of got excited about there for a second because they had beaten the Clippers, but then they lost to the Jazz twice in a row. And the funny thing about the Clippers' win is you're like, man, that's a nice win. They still don't have Trey Murphy. The Jordan Hawkins pick is an absolute home run.

He'd be great on the Magic. I've talked about this Pelicans roster. If it ever figures out a way to all have it happen at the same time, they have different options. I like some of these rosters, even like Oklahoma City. Thinking about the playoffs, which is really important as the regular season can trick us into believing things, I'll look at teams going,

the old school way of the rotation was here are five starters and here are eight guys, maybe a ninth if somebody's in foul trouble and these are your roles, much like an old school bullpen. You have to let everybody know what they are. I think Oklahoma City is so young

that they can get away with messing with their rotations based on the night and that kind of matchup, which is something NBA people detested years ago. And New Orleans, if everybody's actually active, has that kind of team where on a certain night you're like, well, wait, maybe we go with this. But the Clippers win, especially in seeing what happened with the Clippers the other night against Denver. Denver didn't have Jokic, Murray, or Aaron Gordon, and the Clippers couldn't stop any of their guards. I would say there was also a high degree of difficult shot making in that game, but you had

Reggie Jackson going, I'll get Westbrook off of me. I'll switch into Kawhi. I'll do that instead, and then we'll go look for Harden a little bit. The Clippers perimeter guys couldn't guard the Denver backups. Now, granted, maybe it's that one game thing. You watch enough, you're going to see like, what the hell happened that night? Welcome to the league. But as we pivoted back to the Pelicans, that Clippers win felt good. They lose to Utah. Zion takes the rest. And then they lose a close one again to them. And you're like, what? And Zion had a few days off.

Now, Zion's overall numbers, if you're a huge Zion fan, you're going to say like, wait, he had 32 in that Clippers game. He's 24-6, five and a half assists this month. But he's not as good. He's not as good and I'm concerned about it. I don't want to hear about the traditional numbers. It may not even be a numbers thing for me. It's an I thing. He was always somebody that had to get to his left side. As much as we've thought about anyone who's right left dominant, he's about as one-sided a player as I've ever seen. He has to get back left every time. The crazy thing is he'd be so filthy that it still worked. You knew what it was. It didn't matter. He was going to get

back to his left no matter what you did. And he still was going to score or hit a free throw. And I've always loved his passing on some of those moments. But now, like, when I start to look at him physically, I think it's a tick off. And I'm not talking about Zion. Dude, that guy's imaginary. He doesn't exist anymore. He's never coming back. But I don't know if it's that he does look a little heavy to me, but there's some scoring.

It's still happening. There's nights where you can't do much with him, but I'm noticing somebody that's just a little, a little like he can't afford to lose that adult level burst that he has shown that I don't see enough of. And there's a number here that I think is concerning. If you look at his shot chart stuff,

zero of three feet, the percentage of his attempts, not field goal percentage, but the percentage of his attempts from zero to three feet at the rim, 74% his first year, 70% second year, 62% his third year. This is that he's played. It's at 52%. So 74% of his shots, zeroed three feet at the rim, 52%. Now, you could, all right, well, wait. That's great. He's diversifying his bonds.

I don't think so because his shots from three to 10 feet are at 42%, which is almost double where he was his rookie year. he's not getting free or as above guys as he was when it was first starting to happen. Because whatever you say about him as the player and the injuries and all the bullshit, it's all fair. But that guy got to the rim whenever he wanted to. And it was just a horrifying thing to have to deal with. His second jump is arguably the best second jump I've ever seen. And him being at 85% of, I'm talking about the peak version of Zion in the NBA, because again, it's not the Duke guy.

He's not coming back. And the other dynamic of this is that Brandon Ingram really is the guy for this Pelicans team. He is. The way he can get into his offense and give you different things. They were doing some really cool stuff, Willie Green and these guys, getting him to set a screen. It was kind of a decoy. There'd be a baseline cut, and then everybody ignores the screener, but the screener hears their best offensive player. Ingram flashes the free throw line, catch. That's a layup for him. He can put it on the deck.

He was always good with contact despite his frame, even going back to college. And, you know, I didn't think I'd ever get here where it's like, you know, maybe Zion has to figure out a way to play with Ingram. But that's what I'm seeing right now. And if you're telling me Zion's going to like get some of that back,

I would ask you, what evidence do you have that those of us are not aware of? Cash in on balling out this NBA season with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Right Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 Moneyline bet. That's $150 if your team wins. Okay, probably not going to do the Lakers-Detroit. Well, maybe you just go $5 Moneyline bet. The payout's not going to be great. They're minus $2.95 against a Pistons team that is awful right now.

The line is minus seven for the Lakers. So I don't think we want to do that one. But here's one I do like. I'll give you a pick on a game, but I'm staying with this because I was looking at it. Jaden Ivey's finally playing more, and he's had some better scoring nights. Now, the Lakers looked awful against Philadelphia. I believe that 44-point loss, the worst loss of lebron's career and if you watch the game it felt like the lakers were just kind of getting getting a cardio deal in and then guys would pass the guys in the perimeter and be

like wait you want me to shoot now like what are we doing here um but i think the lakers you would imagine are going to be so pissed off and extra day to think about it. Not a huge amount of travel there, um, in Detroit that they're going to come out swinging, even though Detroit's lost a million games in a row here. But again, Ivy, who at the beginning of the year, when I was tracking his fourth quarter minutes, I'm like, Monte Williams is really just not going to play. This guy's gonna play killing and haze over him. The end to close this, like, even if you're losing, figure out how the Cade-Ivy thing works, even though there's some Cade numbers that are really scary. Anyway, the point is this, is that Ivy's playing more. I'd expect the Lakers to respond somewhat to a lifeless game against the

Sixers earlier this week. So if it's a blowout, then Ivy's probably garbage time getting you over 15 points where he is minus 160. For LeBron to win 100, 15 or more points is minus 3,000. Ivy is minus 160. So there you go. That's kind of what I'm going with. Want a straight bet? We can do that too. Didn't love a bunch of these lines out here.

So let's go back to them really quickly. I'm going to go Phoenix minus three at Toronto. I just don't like Toronto. They're getting close to the band list. If you've been thinking about joining FanDuel, there's no better time to join. The app is easy to use, and there's a wide range of ways to bet,

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Bonus bets expire seven days after seats. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. The book, 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, the companion to the hit podcast rob harvilla joins us now and this is the first time we've actually we talked for a few minutes little show prep last night just want to be on the same page i've been a fan from afar i think there may have been an occasional dm every now and then um so but i i was very excited about this book i enjoyed it even more than i thought i would uh just because i was like how is he going to tackle the 90s how's he going to tackle the thing

i lived through also how will he make me feel differently than how i felt before and i think the scary thing is how often i found myself feeling the same so congrats on this man and thanks for doing this today thanks man that really that means a lot i really appreciate it i'm thrilled to be here thanks for having me no that's it we were just going to promote it and um yeah that's it enjoy the rest of your day man look i i always like the origin of things you know something creative like this whether it's uh yeah you know tv show or a movie or something like that you know the podcast was clearly working so i think there, there's some correlation there that makes sense, but take us to kind of the beginning of, wait, can I get a book out of this? Right. I, so the show started in 2020,

like in the midst of lockdown, you know, I'm already walking around my house talking to myself all the time. You know, I might as well turn it into something. Uh, we wanted to do a podcast like about songs, right? What's the format? And we settled on the 90s very quickly. And at the time, I thought it was because it's the past, but it's not too far in the past. There's still a lot of 90s music in music today, et cetera, et cetera. But as the show has gone on, I realized it's because I was a teenager in the 90s. This is when I grew up. This is the music that has meant the most to me and will always mean the most to me. I was in high school. I was in college. These songs are imprinted on my soul. Right. And I didn't start the show with the idea of getting into all that, of this turning into I've ever gotten in anything that I've done, is that people reacted to my extremely mundane, suburban, doofus anecdotes about driving around listening to The Offspring or Rage Against the Machine or Tool or whatever. The idea is that I talk about my mundane personal things and it gets you thinking about your own mundane personal things.

mundane personal things and it gets you thinking about your own mundane personal things and so when it came to turning it into a book right like i have a half million words of scripts of raw material and i'm like i'm just going to print these up and i'll have a book and it's like well that's not going to work and so then it became a matter of trying to separate these songs and like get them interacting with each other you know in unexpected ways hopefully like sellouts, right? I mean, if you think about sellouts in the nineties, immediately you think about green day, you know, maybe you think about Metallica with a black album, but you can also think about ice cube or Coolio, like suddenly having these huge white suburban audiences, you know, thanks to their crossover hits on MTV and how they struggled with that. And so I just, it was a matter of taking all

this material that I had amassed and finding a new way of talking about it, you know, where it's rewarding to people who know the podcast, but you don't have to know the podcast at all. You just have to know the songs. Yeah. Look, I always kind of think about like my history with music and, you you know despite my love of it not being able to play anything really um but yeah you know i'd worked in a music store when i was younger and i was working with all these musicians and they would be like oh like wait you haven't heard of this hit like you haven't listened to primus you haven't listened to you know just all of this stuff and how did you live without listening to Primus?

Well, then the funny part would be two guys that played instruments debating, if you could just put this guitarist with Primus, and then it was like the other guitarist would be like, that's so unfair. That's not his role. It was a lot like the NBA. He's not asked to take those shots. This sounds scintillating.

There you go. You want the NBA trade machine, but for Primus. Who are you going to pair withintillating so there you go you want the nba trade machine but for primus you know who are you going to pair with less claypool there you go who's going to do the pick and roll with less claypool okay i don't know if anybody can but here's here's like nobody can that's the answer is nobody the the history of it is there are those moments where i know where my influences are completely dictated by my father right i know if he likes something that i i liked it and then or maybe he's a really young kid like i wanted to like it because my father liked it but then there's that moment of

like music independence where you go rebellion this right this song is blowing my fucking mind and i kind of know what it is for me is, is your song in the nineties. Is there that song for you where the moment you heard it, you were like, I am as in on this as any form of creative things in my life. And that's what I love about music. Like that first moment, I know where I was. I was in the backseat of a car. That story sounds cooler at the start, but it's not because our best friend's brother had a license and he didn't have any friends so he drove us around right and like it smells like teen spirit came on and I just knew I knew even when I heard the first few notes of it smells it smells like teen spirit I was like something's different

now and I remember I then I went home I ordered the cd I had a special order because they didn't even have it in stock and the guy that was running the store when he special ordered me Nirvana was like you like this shit like just hazing me as he said because they didn't have it I was like I have to I have to hear this whole thing I don't know you know but that's a moment do you have that moment do you have that moment where it feels like independence that led to basically your career when you started talking it's such a cliche, right? But I thought of Smells Like Teen Spirit first because, you know, my buddy Matt played it for me. Like he turned his stereo all the way up. It's the loudest music I've ever heard in my life. Sitting in my buddy Matt's bedroom when he puts in

Nevermind and plays Smells Like Teen Spirit the first. I was terrified. It was so loud. My ears are still ringing from when I was 13. Another story I tell in the book, this is a little more niche perhaps, but They Might Be Giants, the They Might Be Giants song, Particle Man. I think people who get into They Might Be Giants get all the way into them. I think you find a community you know that feels at least like it's outcasts like it it's weirdos like it's people who like like funny music you know you think like weird al etc and i don't know if they might be giants would agree with any of that but i there is a feeling you get i think listening to them where you found your

tribe and so that was a really important moment to me where it's like maybe uncool kids are the coolest kids of all you know what i mean yeah that's a good one because you you had to be like do i want to tell people i really like this song i did debate that for a long time yeah I kept it to myself for a little while, honestly. But there's something else you talk in the book, but it smells like teen spirit. It feels like a cliche thing. I would say Cult of Personality was for me,

with Living Color, but again, that doesn't fall into our lane. That was the first tape I was allowed to buy, breaking the three-song rule that was presented. Right, my father was like, you've got to like three songs to buy the tape and i was like i don't need three more i don't need two more songs i don't care if the rest of the album sucks that intro from vernon personality like that how how could they how could they make that opening riff and then make anything else bad like that's true obviously that

album holds up i still listen to it all the time there's rap albums in the beginning where you're like whoa because like rap for us you know it was kind of like it was it was learning about it's it's going to kind of like the the glorification of the cowboy in the western you know of the 60s like i always felt like rap music was like that for our generation but right when you are in the book kind of getting out of your hair metal phase which i was in but not super hard okay it was motley crue i really liked cinderella for some reason i respected rat and i was like the rest of them suck right i was like the rest of them and i was like right i hated right i was like oh these guys are to be respected yeah right and i'm like 11 arguing and going, no.

That's right. There was always like the, yeah, there was the Dokken fan who felt like he was better than everybody else. But you mentioned in the Guns N' Roses part, I'm going to ask you, are you the oldest child? I am. Yes. My brother is almost five years younger than me so it's we're on sort of parallel but very separate tracks yes i knew it and i didn't know it but i knew it reading the

chapter about when your parents decided to sit you down about the lyrics and guns and roses because i was like he has to be the oldest because that's the that's the oldest sibling conversation that the parents will never happen with music with the rest of them afterwards take us back to that time where they were worried that take us back to the time of them being worried about your drug use at 13 because of g and r lyrics it was i was like nine dude maybe i was like 10 but it was it was gunss N' Roses at the VMAs I asked them to tape on VHS on our VCR the VMA and this is like late 90s this is 88 or 89 and they do welcome to the jungle right you know like when you're high you never want to come down you know etc etc and that's

they sit me down the next day and they're like I was I went by Robbie then like Robbie we're just concerned that like you're to think that drugs are something you might want to try. And I said, I, that's not what I got from the song at all. I don't know what I got from it, but I wasn't like, oh, I want to try drugs. It was just like, oh, I want to hear that again, you know, and like slam into the walls of my living room. Right. Like I, they, I, they had a more sophisticated read on that song than I did at nine. And they were very concerned about my drug use. And I had not even contemplated ever trying drugs.

And I kind of still haven't, if I'm honest. But yeah, Guns N' Roses, I never thought of that as specifically an older sibling conversation. But I think you're right, because I don't think that my brother had an experience like that. I think that I listened to so much MTV and I was scandalized and my parents were scandalized by so much music that I burnt them out on that by the time my brother is a teenager. I seem to be turning out all right by that point. They're like, listen to whatever you want. It clearly doesn't matter.

Were you proud to get out of the hairband phase? I don't know about proud but just in retrospect i stand by it but i just bought into the idea that nirvana killed hair metal right like winger is cool and you fall asleep and you wake up the next day and winger is uncool. And I was like, okay, you know, like I just, I, it felt like I was shrewdly marketed to by MTV and that moment. And I, you know, Nirvana are objectively better than winger. I'm going to say that out loud into a microphone, but there's something, there's something a little too cute and neat about that divide, right? Or like, these guys are cool. about that divide, right? Where like, these guys are cool.

These guys are uncool. Like I will never admit to liking them. You know, I can, I loved Def Leppard's Hysteria, you know, when I was nine, 10 years old. I loved Bon Jovi's New Jersey. And it's not that I stopped loving those records when I started loving Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, on and on. But I just, I, you know, I'm 12, smashing pumpkins on and on but i just i you know i'm 12 13 14 and on

i buy so much so completely into the alternative rock mindset you know this is my this is for me this is my sound this is my generation you know i and i do it does feel a little too clean to me how quickly i abandoned cinderella for example you know don't know what you got until it's gone like i don't know if alice in chains wrote a song as good as don't know what you got until it's gone and i love alice in chains you know what i mean well alice in chains holds up alice in chains like of course when i think about me looking over my different timelines, I never was like, man, I should go back and get back into Shout at the Devil. Theater of Pain carries all the way through, even though everyone learned how to play that on piano and thought it was actually unique. But I never felt wrong about

the 90s music i don't feel wrong about it today where the 80s stuff i was like that was that was you opening a small business and failing and then going the next business i open wow that's interesting i i so is that us is that us is that our right but like the point is is that us or is that us just priding our formative years being like well when i'm 10 i'm an idiot but man when i'm 16 i absolutely know what i'm doing right that's what i felt at the time right and again it's i even when my 90s bands were fighting even when the Smashing Pumpkins pavement fight touched off and I loved both those bands like I didn't feel compelled to take a side and so I'd like to say that I was never embarrassed by the music by the Def Leppard Bon Jovi Cinderella

phase but I think as you say it's because I was a kid like you know I'm like although I'm I'm setting aside childish things now you know and i'm getting into sugar or whatever you know i i do think that i i divided it that way and like the idea of the guilty pleasure right the idea of not knowing any better you know it's like oh poison like that's for kids you know but you listen to every rose has its thorn now and like that song holds all the way up you know i'm not going to say like pearl jam never wrote a better song than every rose has its thorn but i'm really tempted to you know and so it's not it wasn't a denunciation but i just bought into the myth like that janie lane from warren tells the story about like going to his record label and there's a giant photo of the new Warren album cover above the secretary's desk.

And he's like, yes, we're on top. And then he goes there the next day and it's the Alice in Chains dirt cover. And he's like, oh my God, we're over and everyone's going to despise us forever. And I don't know if he actually felt that. I don't know if that was actually true, but that's how stark the divide felt,

at least on MTV, you know, from Smells Like Teen teen spirit forward like suddenly this is what's cool this is what is uncool you know it's like 1984 it's like we've always been at war you know with eurasia like hair metal was always terrible like what are you talking about did you ever feel guilty about rage against the machine? In, in what sense? In, in terms of not being as political as they would prefer that I be.

Yeah, pretty much. Okay. There's, yeah, there's times where I'm like, I got it going. I like to throw it on and I, on a heavy gym day. And I was like, what got it going. I like to throw it on on a heavy gym day.

And I was like, what did he just say again? That's right. Doing your squats and learning about the Zapatistas. Yeah, I mean, this is a band that had a reading list on one of their albums in the liner notes. No, I did not wrap my head all the way around it at the time i tell a story in the book about going to see rage against the machine live in akron at the university of akron at the james a rhodes arena which is named after the governor

who sent in you know the the four dead in ohio right the 1970 the kent state shooting like he's the one who sent in the national guard he's got an arena named after him rage against the machine is playing in that arena playing a song called viet now in that arena like turn on the radio fuck it turn it off and i'm just like this song is awesome you know look at the smoke you know i i was not grasping the socio-political implications of anything that was happening. And then after the show, I tried to toilet paper a mailbox. That was my act of rebellion.

So no, I can picture myself sitting there watching MTV, watching it's the Freedom video, right? It's the Leonard Peltier video, the entire thing. It's like a book report on Leonarded peltier and and like i'm learning about that for the first time in that moment and do i feel a little bad about that now like sure i do you know but i that's what that's part of what i love about rage against the machine is sort of the eternal dissonance between what they tried to give people and what people took from them right like you know how can paul ryan love this band that you know lyrically spiritually politically is against everything he stands for

it's like you take what you want out of it you know you can you can use it as a gym day soundtrack and nothing else and that's fine that's great why is dave matthews the jimmy buffett for polysynators wow wow it's true it's your line by the way it's an incredible it is wow i don't remember i was like wow that's really that's really profound it was me um. Wow. The Dave Matthews band's phenomenon, it was partly because I was going into college at the time, but it did feel so collegiate, right? Like what I always associate Dave Matthews with

is like sitting in somebody's dorm room. Like you have a class with this kid, like you make a friend, you go to his dorm room, you sit there and you page through his CD binder, right? Like the, the, the case logic, you know, there's four CDs on a page, the little sleeves. And it's such like an intimate act, right? To like page through somebody's CD collection, you know, but like there's under the table and dreaming there's crash, you know, there's remember two things. Like if they're really about that life like it just it felt like a cd like a lifestyle that you were handed you know it was part of your orientation

when you got to college it's like also you like the dave matthews band now like here's a hacky sack you know here's the southern gamecocks what's a south carolina gamecocks hat where it just says cocks you know very popular hat in my region in that era. It's like, that's, that's, that's just, that's just the way it was in the mid nineties in college.

It was a very rusted root type environment, but yeah, Dave Matthews was the one to rule them all. I want to talk about pivots. There's a few pivots that I can think of. I think the greatest compliment you can give to an artist is that all of us were not ready for an album they released. And a lot of times it can be the second,

like I think, you know, whether you go three feet high and rising, which is obviously pre nineties, but then De La Soul is dead. People were so disappointed in de la sola's dead and yet it took people maybe three years to go oh my god this is actually incredible um you could even argue my state right yeah honestly de la sola's dead is maybe it's like it might be five years before people went i was disappointed because of expectations. And therefore I completely dismissed what is

one of the most incredible hip hop albums of all time. The Beastie Boys definitely fit into this category and you spend some time on them. And it felt as almost like, I don't know if there's the access that you would had or all the research you had done, but share with us like the Paul's Boutique part of it. And then ultimately kind of like this full circle moment that this had had or all the research you had done but share with us like the paul's boutique part of it and then ultimately kind of like this full circle moment that this band had where if you were betting on bands licensed to ill would have been the all-time like i'm shorting those guys because that shit like that's no one's gonna care about these guys in eight months right and yet it was the complete opposite yeah the bie boys have done a lot of like

archival stuff lately like they did a documentary they put out a book and the story the beastie boys tell about their career is they put out license to ill and they get famous fight for your right makes them famous they're opening for madonna you know they're reviled by the British tabloids. But they wrote that song making fun of jock assholes. But it turns out that jock assholes loved it. And so now they're jock assholes. And they've become the thing they were trying to make fun of. And so they frame Paul's boutique as this willing pivot. They move out to LA, you know, they cut ties with Rick Rubin, et cetera. And they make this forward thinking, you know, brilliant album that they think is going to change the world, but it bricks in real time. Like it bombs. It is not a success.

And so the story of the Beastie Boys for the 90, in the 90s for me, and I'm a teenager in this time and I vaguely know Fight For Your Right. And I vaguely have the idea that Paul's Boutique is like this critically adored record. But what gets the Beastie Boys back into the 90s good graces is, you know, so what you want, and then really sabotage, right? Like they build up over the course of Check Your Head and Ill Communication, they sort of find a way to reconcile like their bratty past that they want to disavow with like their more thoughtful present. Like everyone talks about the lines on Sure Shot, Adam Yauch saying, I want to talk about something that's long overdue. The disrespect to women has got to be through. And just what a cataclysmic

moment that was for people. They're like guys who are known for being assholes, who had all these misogynist songs on their first blockbuster album, having sort of a spiritual awakening, albeit slowly, albeit belated. But now they're really thoughtful and spiritual and kind and inclusive rock stars. And Sabot is like the song that has the same sort of energy that fight for your right has, but everyone is invited to this party. Whereas fight for your right was excluding so much. And so many people, that's the way it looked to me. And I think that's the way that the beastie boys themselves are trying to frame their career now they're trying to wall off you know uh sorry licensed to ill as just you know the record they made when they were teenagers but now they know

better radio heads first albums pablo honey i'll admit i actually didn't like creep i was in high school it was popular um i get that now it's it's become kind of this i don't know it's it's a song that like represents them and you know when you see kevin bacon doing a cover of it on instagram live i'm like okay this is a real crossover hit i missed that that's my good test for it right okay yeah if kevin bacon knew it i do it i okay yeah he's got that yeah the bacon brothers he's he's he's an actual musician yeah right what like that's that's the point is that creep like they're they're not going to be doing i don't know like uh whatever

i'm not going to get into a whole radio head history here, but then the Benz comes out and you're like, wait a minute, at least for me. Cause creep turned me off where I was like, I'm not willing to discover the Benz comes out and you're like, wait a minute. All right.

That's 95 is okay. Computer in 97, a pivot or is okay. Computer them announcing third album in that we are going to go down as one of the greatest rock bands of all time i remember and you know okay computer i loved the bends you know i i don't think pablo honey is as a good record i really liked creep i loved creep you know i fell for creep you know i probably bought pablo honey probably on like a bmg you know or columbia house type deal and like the that record's okay right you still have to buy

six full price ones exactly exactly the bends was a huge improvement for me and i loved that record and i okay computer was my favorite record of all time for a decade or two going forward. You know, it is impossible to overstate how important that record was to me at 19. That didn't feel like as huge a pivot to me as Kid A did. Like the entire framing of Kid A was like, now we're into computers. Like there's no guitars on here at all. Like we don't want to be a rock band anymore. Like OK obviously is a huge step forward it's super arty you know they're miles they're light years away from pablo honey already light years away from the bends already

but i think that kid a is more the record where they explicitly state that they're making a break with like just being a great rock band you know now we're going to usher in the future you know okay computer has enough of the dna of the bends in it that it doesn't feel like a hard break the way kid a does to me uh yeah that would probably be the right answer on the big i can feel like there were okay there were kid a hints and okay computer is the way i like go back and think about it. But okay computer was the one where I was like, okay, wait, this is going to be more. This is going to be more.

Like I look at 311, I know exactly what I'm getting. I know exactly what I'm getting. You know, it's a steak and cheese. Don't experiment 311. Right. Make your hamburgers. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. 311 like just just right make your make your hamburgers yeah absolutely absolutely exactly exactly where you know i don't think 311 has a kid a on their resume i just don't and i don't

think i want it i don't think i've ever wanted it yeah that's the point i don't know if i want to think about that right so you do a great job throughout the book of like kind of putting us you know not only like back to where you were when the songs were coming along but also like our perception of the band and kind of like re reassessing you know hey were we right are we wrong about this but there's one constant that i always think is kind of interesting and it's great segue coming out of radiohead i'll never understand why somebody does something in the public spotlight and then is like, I never wanted this. Like, well, you kind of wanted it at some point.

You had to have wanted it at some point. Is that an act? And on top of that, should we just respect rappers more? Because they're like, actually, I want all this shit. I want all of it. I want all of it i want all of it like rock stars versus rappers and especially the 90s rock star all of them felt like they were collectively in on this idea that we actually don't want any of this stuff which is i think

bullshit for the most part um but what i've respected is that rappers are like no no do not confuse like whatever else i can do however much more fame i can have that's what i want i never thought of it that way and that's a beautiful way to think about it because i think that's absolutely true i think what 90s rock stars taught me as a teenager you weren't supposed to want it you know i think a pearl jam right like if you want to talk about pivots like i looking back on it now no code like their fourth record is not like a huge stylistic break at all it's no kind of okay computer but i you can see that pearl jam made the very deliberate decision to be less famous you know we're not going to make videos anymore we don't want to be on magazine. We don't want any more of this voice of a generation talk, you know, that so that Kurt Cobain struggled with and Eddie Vedder

struggled with, you know, we're going to do our own thing. And like now they play, you know, arenas, stadiums, festivals, whatever. But I do think, you know, fighting Ticketmaster, right, which seemed like such a disaster and maybe was in a sense, but I think that was a righteous cause. And I think that that also helped them change the way they were perceived and change their audience a little bit. You know, I do see those pivots that way. I think about U2, right? Like Octo and Baby, you know, I think Joshua Tree and Octo and Baby are widely regarded as like peak U2, right? But they spend the rest of the 90s like deliberately, like explicitly saying, we're going to try and do a new thing now. You know, we're going to be

ironic. You know, we're going to be electronic. We want to play with the idea of being a rock band. And like Zoropa and Pop were sort of coldly received, at least relatively at the time. And I don't think that they're hidden like all-time classics in retrospect but it is sort of clear to me a little clearer to me what they were trying to do in that moment and part of what they were trying to do is sort of shake off rock stardom as the 80s as the 70s as the 60s sort of explained it to us right you know nobody wanted to be that sort of messianic figure in the spotlight with their foot up on the the the the drum riser anymore right like even bono you know everybody got a little embarrassed about the idea of rock stardom in the 90s

i hated octoon baby i was so mad about you hated octoon baby wow yeah interesting i was so mad about it i was such a huge i was a huge youtube fan i wasn't ready for the pivot i was too young i was like are you guys serious with this shit you know in every single person uh was it 91 um so maybe 16 okay that's the funny thing is is is that that prepared me for zuropa and pop oh okay then i kind of i kind of respected those more because i was like okay so the, so the pivot is full. Yeah, November 91. I just didn't, and by the way, again, depends on how old you are listening to this, especially at that time, because I think I just started working at the music store then.

That was everyone's favorite album in the world for like a year. Pretty much. I was the one guy going, you were the Joshua tree, dude. Not even one, not even one did it for you. The song.

Oh my God. I, I just, I, yeah, now the whole thing drove me crazy. And I know it's, I know it's a,

I know it's a great album, but I was, that was a pivot I could not handle yet. I wasn't. Um, that's fascinating. I don't handle yet. I wasn't ready. That's fascinating. I don't know what else I want to finish up on. I feel like I had all the... Oh, how about this?

The Pixies aren't my favorite band, except for the days where they are my favorite band. I get it. What is it about the Pixies? It's never going away. I listened to Surfer Rosa the other day, start to finish going away i listened to surfer rosa the other day start to finish i was driving vegas and then i saw your tweet little sugar in vegas and i went through all the sugar stuff now i like i understand like you know the guy bob isn't in the pixies but the point is is that there's there's this lane that the pixies are in that maybe their greatest

compliment is with all of the grunge stuff that sounded the same with so many of my friends thinking they could sing because they heard Eddie Vedder mumble. They're like, wait, maybe I can sing the same thing as your Anthony Kiedis point that he's a D plus singer, but an A plus plus front man. Because I remember at one point a guy was like, dude, this Chili Peppers guy sucks. You could probably do it. And I was like, that's not a compliment. Okay. So the question I've never asked you about the Pixies before, and I'm not even sure I have the answer about the Pixies, but I fucking love the Pixies.

And sometimes as much as anything, even though I'd never say it's my favorite band. Any thoughts on that? Diagnose it. favorite band any thoughts on that diagnose it i think that the pixies were so ahead of their time that it's hard to measure their impact properly now you know all the way up you know kirk obain told anyone who would listen you know that smells like teen spirit was like an attempt to rip off the pixies and one smells like teen spirit happens like 30 of all the music in the universe suddenly sounds like nirvana who are trying to sound like the pixies and therefore the pixies sound a little less revolutionary than they were at the time you know and i include myself in this

like surfer rosa comes out what is that like 88 89 and i i don't think it's hard to explain. And I don't think I can explain it because I don't think I fully understand it, how radical that record sounded if it hit you right. Like as preferably just a little older, 16, 17, 18 year old at the time, the idea of the really quiet verse, but the really loud screaming chorus, like it's not like the Pixies invented that, but the Pixies perfected that like Kim deals voice dude, right? Like the sweetness of her voice contrasted with, with black Francis's voice.

Like I, it sounded like the future and we weren't ready for it. Right. And like the Pixies opened for you too, on the stop of the Octone baby of the Zoo TV tour that I saw in 91, 92 in Cleveland. And I thought the Pixies were terrible, you know, seeing them live opening for U2. It's like, this is scary. This is noise.

Like, I'm going to go get a Coke from the concession stand and hope that this is over when I get back. Like, even I wasn't ready for them, but I think there's something to that, like bands that set the template for an entire genre of music, the way the Pixies invented alternative rock in a sense, but then you go back to the Pixies and they sound a little less distinct maybe just because there's so much music now that sounds like them. But I agree with you completely. You go back and listen to Surfer Rosa, you go back and listen to Doolittle, like front to back, and it's brilliant. It's genius. And it's just as fresh as the first

time that you heard it. So I do think ultimately the Pixies do stand on their own, but there was that danger in being so influential that it blurs out you know the record the band that influenced everything i also feel like you could throw it on and if someone didn't know who they were and you said yeah this came out in like 1974 this came out last week right it'd be like okay yeah you know it wasn't you know i remember i played a song for somebody once they're like wait the song's over the guy just screamed went do you not understand how amazing that was it was a minute 13 you didn't feel it's brilliant you didn't feel anything distance equals rate times you didn't oh that's a great you didn't feel that oh that's it get back on that today all right um give me you can't take

smells like teen spirit give me your definitive 90s song yes um my sincere answer to this is omds how bizarre remember that one when's the last time you got into that one i think that was 97 i think there's something so charming to me good good there's something so charming to me i hate to use the term one hit wonders like i find it to be rude but there's something about know, the flukes and the weirdos and like the, what the hell is this? But suddenly it's everywhere. And suddenly it's your favorite song, even if only for like 10 minutes.

Here's my answer. This is my new answer. The most 90 song is standing outside a broken telephone booth with money in my hands by the primitive radio gods, right? Like I can, I can see myself so clearly like on the floor of my bedroom and that song's on the radio. And I'm like, this is the most profound and brilliant song that I've ever heard in my life. You know? And then two weeks later it was like, oh yeah, that was fun. Like I had something about that song and how fluky it was. You know, After Smells Like Teen Spirit, Alternative Rock,

any band can get signed, any band can get a song on the radio if it sounds a little grungy, and all the weird shit that resulted from that. And maybe it's bands that only lived for five minutes, only put out one song, anybody knows. But just the five-year period after that just such fascinating weird shit suddenly could get like reasonably popular if only for a half hour you know and and the the primitive radio gods like were really doing it for me for like one evening you know on a wednesday you know and i'll remember it forever and i'll cherish it forever i was gonna go with the cardigans excellent excellent but uh excellent song that's uh that's a great answer look this isn't even this is just a a slice of what rob did in this book

and put it all together i focused focused on the stuff I liked. I probably could have done 45 minutes just on Jeff Buckley, except in the intro, he shares that you try to do grace. Did you try to sing grace or hallelujah? Hallelujah. I did the Jeff Buckley version of hallelujah. I don't remember if I ever did it in public. I would really like to tell you I didn't't i can picture myself in my dorm room trying oh my god i hope i did not subject other people to that but i fear that i did but that's that you want embarrassment you want like denunciation of an era like me trying to sound like jeff buckley like i would have liked to erase that from history if at all possible i apologize to jeff i know it's i apologized

yourself for beating up on my friend rob because okay i will that's very you needed a friend to go like hey so jeff buckley huh you want to maybe you want to try to maybe maybe you don't want to take the master's courses yet we'll start with some intro to spanish i don't know if i had the octave range yeah that's yeah that's me trying to speak fluently i watched a video of him doing a song on the bbc the other day it just popped up and like i think i watched it five times like i couldn't like yep that guy was unbelievable all right look uh again we get the book 60 songs That Explain the 90s. It just came out. Get it for people that love music.

Get it for people that are of a certain age or get it for people to become educated on this decade of great music. Thanks, man. Thanks so much, dude. This was great. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice.

The email address is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. We've got Cerruti here. Do we know if Kyle's going to check in at all for the Alliance? Steve, or are we just going to get a pick? I texted him. He said he doesn't have his microphone. He can email us or text us his pick, or he can hop on, but he's not going to have his mic so whatever we want to do

our guys game we'll have we'll have a meeting about it alright here we go big finish I've gotten hot recently don't let your boy get hot how many in a row have you won

I think maybe three we'll talk about it on Friday's pod How many in a row have you won? I think maybe three. We'll talk about it on Friday's pod because there's a little bit of a loophole thing that I had to do this last one, but I've been all right recently. Okay. I already know what you're talking about

and what you want to do, and I'll just give you a hint right now. I don't like it. Okay. But we'll talk it out. It's the alliance. We've all got each other's backs until we don't so uh here's the email free trip to hawaii did i make the right decision slash am i an asshole six foot three 190 x d1 miler hmm like a running like running the mile

yeah runs the mile track and field that's an event in uh i know there's like the 400 then there's like cross country i didn't know there was just a straight mile so your assumption was that any distance running it was like you either had to sprint one lap or run three miles there's nothing yeah kind of because isn't there's the 400 there's the 800 right it's two laps. Yeah. I thought everything after that was cross-country long distance, which sucks. I did that in middle school. That was enough for me. You want to guess how many laps the mile is?

It's four, right? Great job. There's the beer. Everything's giving my buddies, and some of them are trying to get me to do this. There's this thing where it's like the beer mile or whatever you have to chug a beer for every lap that you run so basically have to chug four beers and run four laps in a certain amount of time and uh sounds like a miserable existence to be honest with you and i don't know

yeah running a mile is not easy if you're running it fast but uh yeah i did cross country in the mile for a little bit hated Hated all of it. No moves to learn. There's never any moves. So, okay, here we go. The names have been changed. My tier one friend, Brian, calls me Monday morning, 1127. Hey, that's this weekend.

With the following proposition, quote, do you and your fiance want to tag along to Hawaii from Wednesday, 1129, that's today, to Monday, 12-4? Our friends, Peter and Lauren Lauren had to back out last minute since Lauren is too sick to travel in two days. You'd have to cover your flights, food, et cetera, and the Airbnb is taken care of. Just a heads up to this guy emailing. I'm going to read the rest of it,

but you changing the names does not hide the scent of where this is coming from if anyone else in your orbit listens to this podcast. Okay. All right. Just a heads up. Not our fault, but we're going to keep reading.

So that was the quote. I think the focus there is et cetera, but the Airbnb is taken care of as this was pretty last minute. I had to consider getting off work. Who'd watch my dog. And if the unexpected cost of flight vacation in Hawaii would be worth it, but caps since Peter and Lauren had already backed out of the, uh,

out of going the accommodations. I guess this is where Peter and Lauren jump into the picture. They were supposed to go. That's right. OK, they backed out the accommodations. A large expense would essentially be covered. I told Brian I talked to my fiance, see if we can make it work with all the coordinating requirement over the next two days.

A key piece of the info is that Brian, his girlfriend, and Peter and Lauren had planned this trip months in advance as they'd be attending a wedding on Saturday that my fiance and I had not been invited to. I obviously wouldn't expect the soon-to-be-married couple to extend an invite to my fiance and I to any wedding festivities, and the thought of crashing the wedding, even from afar in a tropical Airbnb, seemed like a reason not to go. Totally hey replacement heel who knows if you kind of knew them a little bit maybe they were like well look if there are two spots they're not showing up and you're taking them fine that's great don't even bother with the gift would have been a nice like i could see a certain group of people thinking it's totally okay i could see another group of

people and i would say it's fine as well if they were like yeah we don't really know you like you can't this is a wedding invite it's not a fucking this isn't a lighter vacation from costco right yeah so you know uh both sides in play here open to either conclusion the real dilemma occurs when brian follows up to check in on my decision and asks if we can sort out the airbnb logistics with peter and lauren remember the couple that backed out yeah oh pete and lauren l dog i'm confused saying quote i thought the logistics were taken care of thinking peter and lauren had forfeit their spot in the place and would pay their portion regardless if they could attend brian says it would be quote a nice gesture if i paid half of the airbnb airbnb fee peter and

lauren had forfeited um over a thousand bucks for context peter and lauren are mutual friends of my fiance and i through brian we've hung out many times and have plans in the near future none of us are struggling financially none of us are struggling financially. None of us are struggling financially, the host repeated for effect. At this point, I feel the awkwardness of the situation seeping in and I decided, fuck it. It was a nice offer, but I have to decline. Getting nearly a week off for work,

two days notice wasn't going to happen, meaning I'd be taking calls from a nice Airbnb, from a nice Airbnb, not the worst, but not the best vacation. This wasn't my trip, nor a wedding I was invited to, so justifying the money on this wasn't worth it. And lastly, if Peter and Lauren wanted to recoup some of their forfeited costs, they should have Brian lead with that. Brian pleads with me saying, quote, Peter and Lauren are fine not getting

anything back in the Airbnb. But to avoid more social tension, I decline again saying it's too short of a notice to get off of work all right let me read that again because i didn't do a good job with separating the quote from the context he says brian says to our emailer peter and lauren are fine not getting anything back now on the airbnb so they actually tried to like intro you at a price yeah and we're like okay actually now you which is fucking bullshit um it's a guilt trip. They try to guilt trip you into like, well, you know, it would be nice if you contributed. And you're like, well, yeah,

but the whole point was that I didn't have to contribute. That's why you're asking me. Right, right, right. But to avoid more social tension, I say, hey, look, it's out. Did I make the right decision passing on this free trip? Quotes, I should have changed,

should I have changed my mind and taken a last minute trip to Hawaii on a steep discount? Am I the asshole for expecting the accommodations to be free and that being asked for a gesture would make me look disingenuous and cheap ultimately if the offer was initially made to me a free airbnb in hawaii was legit i would have treated peter and lauren uh after returning from hawaii to a nice dinner or whatever but likely closer to two and a three hundred dollar range instead of a thousand bucks requested to split the airbnb thanks um all right look man why do you need our help on this to be honest with you that's maybe the most concerning part of

it maybe you just want to send an email into the show but i kind of felt like you're getting worked here a little bit one the other couple's like hey can you can you let us know because it'd be nice if you'd help with some of the costs. And then you got to like, let's go back to the beginning. Were you invited because they wanted to hang out with you or were you invited to cover some of the costs? And were you invited by Brian because he and his wife don't want to cover the full cost of the Airbnb? So were they all scheming going, yep, let's call up the emailer um so no you're not wrong you're not an asshole you didn't really pass up on a free thing here i think it's really shady and slash alarming and to be on alert of this kind of shit from your friends in the future like i

like everybody look if we've learned anything and you already knew this before you listened to this pod, but money makes people act really, really weird. Uh, and, and everybody has a different set of rules and because we keep track of it, you know, sometimes people are like, Hey man, this kind of works out for me. And that's what I'm going to do. And, you know, some people are really, really cheap. Some people are really, really generous, but I think this transaction specifically, like they were kind of pitching you something one that you clearly pointed out to wasn't even the case, but then did it dawn on you that the guy inviting you was looking to cover his costs on top of everything else? And then when they were like, Hey, don't worry about it. It's fine, but let us know. Like it just should have been, I mean, there's a way it could worry about it. It's fine, but let us know.

Like, it just should have been, I mean, there's a way it could have worked out. There's a way you could have had this work out, but I'm alarmed on your behalf is my point. This sounds like, well, one, there's definitely some collusion going on here between the two couples. They were like, hey, maybe we just, it's a bait and switch situation where they're like, hey, you could take our spot. No questions asked. Free, pro bono. And then it's like, hey, actually, it'd be nice if you chipped in.

And it's thoughtful for you that you would have done the dinner thing. But the whole point of you doing this last minute, because you're not going to be able to enjoy this vacation as much as you would have when you planned months in advance, especially to Hawaii. It's not like an easy place to get to. As you said, if you're going to be working half the time that you're there, you're not invited to this wedding, which I don't think is a huge deal because you can just do your own thing. But still,

you're not part of the weekend or whatever the thing is. So the only benefit to you would be that you get it for a discounted price. And if you're not going to do that, and they're going to kind of put this weird pressure on you that you maybe owe them something in the future, you 100% made the right decision. I don't want to have... I don't want to owe anybody anything. I don't want to feel like I'm in a weird spot with these people. And again, can you really trust them now? It just feels really, really fishy. So I think you 100% made the right choice. And I'm not saying you need new friends, but clearly, they were scheming behind your back. Yeah. I'd ask the emailer, do you kind of just let things go?

Do you ever feel like people take advantage of you? Are you somebody who just to avoid confrontation will maybe agree to things that you don't always want to do? Like, I'm serious. Like what's the scattering report? Are you aware of the scattering report on you? Because when it says quote in the email,

um, so I'm, I'm just going back to email. Then I'll break it up with a quote again. It says, Brian says it would be quote a nice gesture end quote if I paid half the Airbnb fee like for

who Lauren and Peter or fucking Brian so look man look I don't like this email I'm glad you didn't do it but I think your friends look everybody's having a hard time making friends out of there so I wouldn't

I wouldn't bounce on them, but I, I would, uh, I would make sure this isn't a pattern. I would, I hope this is a one-off, but I'm a little worried about you. Yeah. And now instead of, you know, maybe a nice dinner, they're going to get nothing out of the situation where, you know, they, they kind of, they might've overplayed their handle. If they just like sat and played, played it cool cool let you go not have to pay for the airbnb you know maybe they get a nice dinner at some steakhouse or whatever and then now they get absolutely nothing so i think you

kind of get the victory in this situation too all right there we go um let's go with a young guy probably trying to hook up yep dming a hookups friend 24 6 foot 230 spurs aaron baines with the barbecue skills 360 bench this guy's a monster former d2 football player uh 515 squat last spring i met a girl through work she worked for a company we worked we saw each other at a concert one thing led to another we started seeing each other at the time i was going to take a new job out west. We stopped seeing each other this summer. I moved to Cincinnati. All right. We just throw it all out there. And now I'm back. I'll just say where he is now is back home.

The old flame moved on, but I see an Instagram. She has a friend who seems perfect for me. Ginger family oriented, likes to go out a huge Colts fan. Fuck it. We'll just say it all. My question is,

can I DM the friend given the mutual friend we have, or can I ask the old hookup girl about her friend? We left on good terms if it was just moving on at the time. Thanks, guys. Love the pot. You want to take this one? You said you left on good terms. She's seen somebody. Yeah. So that's great she's happy um i i would say yeah it's probably okay just because of i mean again i don't know maybe you know maybe he's overplaying his hand a little bit here but that's gonna be your end man i feel like a blind dm is not gonna really do the trick unless she's talked about you before in some like good light but i if you're really interested

and you really want to make this thing be successful or have a shot, it does sound like the seal of approval from a former hookup is probably your best bet, even though it could blow up right in your face. So I would say it's risky. But yeah, I would do it. What do you got to lose?

Yeah, it's a yes, but it's the plan. Now, the ex that you hooked up with that is the friend of the ginger who loves her family. Wholesome Midwestern, it sounds like. Right. You got to figure out how's the one that used to hook up and feel about you. She may be seeing somebody now, but people can get weird with relationships. Even when you move on, you think of like anybody that you've been with is like a possession of some, some sort of,

some people get really possessive about it. Even if they're onto like girlfriend or boyfriend, three or four, you know, we're like, all right, we've already moved chapters ahead, but you're still fucking referencing this one. So the point is, is you have to know how that, well, it's really, you have to know that ahead of time and you should probably know that ahead of time like if it was a really casual kind of fun thing maybe she thinks it's great people also really like setting people up and introducing the people yeah uh introducing people to each other which i've never understood talk about like the worst fucking hobby ever um but she might be one of those so she's totally cool happy with a new completely over it. You may be recruiting an asset, spy movies, right? You may have an ally in this quest for the ginger, and that's better than anything you

can do. If there is one thing you learn from us when it comes to relationships, if you can find female assets, allies out there in the game that are putting in good words for you, that are helping you out. We've got somebody on the inside, all right? You will do far better in life, my friends. Become friends with females and then date their friends, okay? That's the way it works. Now, that's why I like this planning here. Because if you go cold, if you go cold right into it, she might, even with your husky build and Midwestern sensibilities, she may go, because she's friends with the friend, she may go with like, ooh, guess who DM'd me? What a creep. Right? DM me. What a creep, right? Now, unless you've gotten any vibes from her ever that it might be

up because she might be like, Hey, my friend dated her. I don't really even like her that much. And this guy's so hot and his squad is sick. So is deadlift numbers. I'm fucking in. So there's a bunch of different ways this can go, but I would say the most rewarding if the first part of the X parts are like cool, where she's not going to be like, oh, you know, even though I'm dating somebody, I kind of don't really like that. Like, I don't know how I feel about that. And then now you're fucked. And then maybe you use that.

Maybe then you use that as the back door where you go to the ginger. Hey, look, I reached out to our mutual friend about this. I felt bad. She super wasn't into it. Got kind of weird. I just wanted to our mutual friend about this. I felt bad. She super wasn't into it. Got kind of weird. I just wanted to get in front of it in case you heard from her that I was interested, but now I feel bad.

And then the magic happens. Then it starts all spinning around, neutrons, et cetera. You're saying like, oh, you should give this guy a second look? No, I'm saying if you go to the first girl and say, I'm into the ginger, and then she's like, I don't know how I feel about that, and then shuts it down, then you can use that as an unbelievable introduction

to the ginger. You'd be like, hey, class guy, class act, all about class. I reached out to the girl that, as you know, used to date. And I wanted, we got a FaceTime coming in. I'm not answering that. Just want to get in front of it, you know, all class over here.

And then she might be like, oh my God, this guy just admitted that he's actually kind of into me a little bit. And I don't even like her. And it's kind of an asshole. And we had this airbnb thing where she tried to get me to fill in last minute so let's get drinks yeah yeah right let's get drinks and talk about us not hanging out yeah i like this i just fixed it i think we did i think the i still think the more likely scenario though is is she's probably gonna but basically everything you've said like also like where the hookup's good like were you guys like in was there like a was this is purely like neither of you had any feelings you just hooked up or did she maybe maybe have feelings

and you moved away because i think that definitely dictates like how she's gonna feel about this also is her relationship that she's currently in now is that heading towards is that is that an early relationship or is it like have they been dating for a couple of months or years or whatever and it's pretty steady because if it's still early i still think she you know there might be a little bit of jealousy there and her you know this her not wanting you to be happy because she isn't quite sure of what her situation is yet so i think there's a lot of like different factors that can dictate what she's going to do in this situation based on everything you said in your relationship with her and whatever i think the best bet is to be like,

I'm into this girl. Like, what do you think? Should I? Because it doesn't even have to be like, you could be like, should I even DM her? Would she be interested in me? Just ask her a bunch of questions.

It doesn't even have to reach that actual stage, but just kind of like put the soft floater out there, see what she says, and that's going to be your best bet. Because I, you're right,

like it's very weird when, whenever friends of people, like the six degrees separation, whenever they DM somebody and they use the friend as the in, it's such a wild card, I feel like based on, you know, whether or not that's going to work or not, because are they attracted to you or not? It might not work at all. But if you have this like little in and then she kind of floats it to her friend and then

you mentioned the friend that you talk to the friend like all these little different things all these little spark connections can make it way better for you in the long run and here's the thing if it doesn't work that means the ginger who you've never been with who doesn't like you doesn't want to be with you and the girl that you've already stopped seeing that's dating somebody else who you likely don't want to get back together with like you're not actually losing two people you're just removing them as options so i'd say go for it but i do i do like the soft sell to the x because she's either going to back you but then if she says i don't really like this idea that's your in to the ginger because it's something different it's unique it stands out it's like hey how's your career going wants to talk about that all right thanks steve

uh thanks to cliff as well that's life advice the ryan rossillo podcast please subscribe it back on friday ring or spotify We'll be right back. New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona, 1-888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-800-522-4700, or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800-GAMBLER.net in West Virginia or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline.com.