The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Weird Wednesdays: UFC With Jon Anik, Plus 76ers and 'Succession' With Chris Ryan | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

Russillo shares his thoughts on Kyrie Irving vs. the Nets culture (1:18) before talking with UFC commentator Jon Anik about the upcoming Masvidal vs. Diaz card, the depth at the welterweight division, and other UFC favorites, including Jon Jones, Conor McGregor, and more (8:52). Finally Russillo sits down with The Ringer's Chris Ryan to discuss what the 76ers have shown in their first three games of the NBA season before they take a look at HBO's 'Succession' a few weeks removed from the Season 2 finale (48:45). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

we have a ton going on on today's podcast and thank you for subscribing great and reviewing the ryan rossola podcast on the ringer today's lineup i'm gonna go off i'm on one today oh yeah there's something i've been upset about, Kyle, and I need to get it off my chest. And it has to do with the NBA. Weekend, though, quick observation. Speaking of, we're going to talk with Chris Ryan, but the headliner, I don't want to do that to Chris Ryan.

Maybe I shouldn't say it that way. The co-headliner, John Anik from the UFC. UFC 244. Getting ready for that one. I can't wait for this card, and I just want to talk to my buddy, who I've known for a long time and has been very close to this sport for a long time, and just kind of do everything. We're not going to just talk about the card. We're not going to talk about fighters that you don't know about.

We're going to talk about the whole thing, big picture, and sprinkle in some good stuff in there as well. Today's episode of the Ryan Russillo Show is brought to you by State Farm. If you're fumbling with insurance, State Farm agents are here to help because with over 19,000 agents that are local to you and available to help, whether you connect in person by phone or through the State Farm mobile app, agents are here to help. So go with the one that has coverage and agents you can count on. State Farm, talk to an agent today. So this Jackie McMullin piece in ESPN about Kyrie Irving, really about the Nets. It's about Katie.

It's about Kyrie. It's about the Nets. It's about KD. It's about Kyrie. It's about the Nets. And this is what happens. The stuff gets aggregated. And it became, I woke up West Coast out here. I'm like, man, what did Kyrie Irving do? Did he kill a guy? Like, oh, he's moody with the Nets?

Okay. Because everybody was talking about it. You know, that's my routine now. I get up sometimes way too early, unfortunately. Not a great sleeper, but 5 a.m., 6 a.m., whatever. And it's like, I don't have to get up. I know everybody's like, oh, get up early. Well, if you don't have to getting up that early kind of sucks. But it's not like I'm staying up that late.

It's just whatever. All right. I don't think I was going to do a sleep pattern podcast. But my point is, is that I'll, I'll see these things and I think like, Oh my God, like what happened? What's going on? Oh, Kyrie, like, what did he do? What happened for this? And this is just, these are the rules. You have this thing that's interesting and then it becomes the thing. You know, there's always this thing that I think is really annoying about gender disputes and some are very, very, um,

accurate. Some of the gender disputes are total bullshit where we, as men are winning and females are losing. And then there's ones where like, if a wife does something and she's the wife of a famous athlete, then all of a sudden it'll say, well, um,

just trying to pick somebody random. Rodney hood's wife slated to host blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, you know, she has a name. She hasn't. She's a person like, no, it's not the way it works. Like I saw an article the other day. It was like Britney Spears, Britney Spears, less famous. Britney Spears workout boyfriend says their workouts are awesome, you know?

And you're like, okay, why do you think the play said Britney Spears' boyfriend instead of his name, which I've already forgotten? Because it's fucking Britney Spears. That's what's going to get you to click on the article. The same way, I don't know what Rodney Hood's wife does, and I don't know if she's slated to host anything, but my point is, is that those are the rules. And what happens with articles is,

well, let's talk about what Sean Marks said. Let's talk about Kenny Atkinson's not sleeping much the first two seasons. No, no, no. There's this thing that everybody knows about with Kyrie that he can be unpredictable to be nice. We could call it moody. I don't really know. He's just sort of all over the place. This was going on all the way back to Cleveland, and it was just a bad deal in Boston. And he checked out on that team against the Milwaukee bucks. I mean,

go back and watch those games. Actually don't spend your time doing something better. But if you did watch it, you're like, Oh, so this guy's just like done with it all. So they go to Brooklyn and they have the fresh start. And the fresh start started actually back in 2016 when it was the world

games. And it was Durant was Deandre Jordan and actually was the Olympic team excuse me um and they all got together and they're like you know what we should do we should do like a LeBron friends team thing just like LeBron did and we'll do a super team and then Deandre Jordan was like who you guys gonna get a center like no dude we're gonna get you like oh I'm into awesome Deandre Jordan did have a great line in it, though, where he said, we're getting together now, but he said, Katie and I became friends when I was getting recruited to Texas.

And I was like, are you going to stay? And Durant was like, yes. He goes, and I knew he was lying to me immediately, so I went to A&M. And DeAndre Jordan, look, it all worked out. It worked out for everybody. So they all get together. And this story is really long, and it's really well done by Jack McM McMullen. There's a bunch of different things that are going on here, but the Kyrie part of it, where there was an incident in China, where there was a team photo

and he didn't want to take his hat off and then said, Hey, Photoshop it out. And you're like, or you can just take your hat off. And then that kind of became everything. And one other addition in that Kyrie shows up and, you know, it was like, look, I don't want to wear this, this health monitor. I don't want to wear this tracking device. I don't want to do your way. I'm working with my own personal guys, my own training system, all this stuff, like this stuff that the nets do is really detailed. Like you wake up and there's already a plan for like, here's where massage is going to work out. Here's where we're going to have specific rehab to this slight injury that's lingering. Here's your shooting assignments. Here's all these different

things. And Atkinson even admits, you know, this can be very regimented. It can be very college ish, which isn't something veterans usually say guys in free agency. Don't say, you know, I wanted to do at like 31. I want to go to a team where we wake up early and do extra stuff all the time. Cause that's going to be awesome. And I want to have to track team where we wake up early and do extra stuff all the time because that's going to be awesome. And I want to have to track every step I take and then report it to a guy so I can have all this extra data. Because I will think we'll look back at this run in sports and maybe go, is there ever collecting too much data? Because Sam Hinckley did, straight up. Read some of those stories. If you have New Orleans Noel's warm-up shots from the baseline, 12 feet out being tracked, and thinking that data is going to lead to anything,

let me know what your conclusions are. But I do think we're in this thing where it's like, man, data, information, oh, my God. Like, man, maybe we didn't need everything. Maybe we didn't need to count so many steps to the deli. So Kyrie and Kevin Durant decide it's on and they get together. And this is what I found so great about the article. Obviously, these guys can do whatever we want. I think we'll all admit 10 years after LeBron going to Miami, we're a bit more numb to the idea of the NBA player calling

his own shot, right? I think we are like oh okay guys move around more that's just the way it is it's the NBA patches analogy I will use too many times patches no oh yeah that's right there's still patches on the jerseys like you just don't care about it the same way you did in the beginning and this is more important than patches and players moving around but the guys go to the Brooklyn Nets but here are two things that I think are so comical about it. Is that Durant and Kyrie have both said, we like the culture, we like the system, we like what they run. They're not running anything when you guys show up there. and LaVert and Jared Allen and Joe Harris and crude, unexplainable playoff minutes. As soon as you show up, it no longer, that system you're praising no longer exists. Again, not a criticism reality. I'll give you a criticism though, because if you're Kyrie and you're saying,

I just love their culture. The second you showed up, you shit on on the culture I can't take my hat off fucking Kyrie Irving you know and it's like I love the culture I love this I love that they do this yeah oh yeah tracking stuff no I don't want to do it here's's what it is. Here's all it is. And it's okay. I would have been, I would have bought Kyrie jerseys home and away. Third alternate, perhaps if all those dudes said the same thing. Hey, we want to team up together.

Okay, cool. Where do you want to go? Both LAs are taken. Chicago's not as cool as New York. And the Knicks stink. Let's go to Brooklyn. Done. Let's talk about fighting.

That'll be next. But first, the Google Assistant is ready to help you get more done with just your voice in the car, at home, and everywhere you take your phone. Hey, Google, text Bill Simmons. I'm on my way. Sure, text Bill Simmons. I'm on my way. Sure, text Bill Simmons. A little help, hands-free. Just say, hey, Google, to get started. He is the voice of the UFC.

He is the co-host with Kenny Florian, John Anik, the Anik and Florian podcast, and with UFC 244 coming up, a big pay-per-view event. A guy that has been, as I always kind of kid, as great to me as anybody. I could probably be better to him. He's just an awesome, awesome guy. And he's a good friend. It is John Anik.

What's up, man? Great to be with you, as always. How pissed would Bruce Buffer be if he heard me get introduced as the voice of the UFC? Yeah, probably pretty pissed. I didn't really think of it that way is he the voice of the UFC is that how he's built he likes us to call him the veteran voice

of the octagon you know sometimes there's only time to stay with the official decision here's buff but you know I try to give him as much shine as possible but hey I'll take anything I can get I'm the lead play by play guy you want to call me the voice of the UFC I will certainly take it right but get. I'm the lead play-by-play guy. You want to call me the voice of the UFC, I will certainly take it. Right, but is the PA announcer the voice of the Boston Red Sox,

or is it Joe Castiglione? Now he's really going to be pissed you're calling him a public address announcer. No, I think you bring up a great point. I think I'm going to confront him about it this weekend. All right, let me know what the odds are for that one, and maybe I'll introduce both of you. By the way, zero disrespect to Bruce Buffer whatsoever. him about it this weekend. All right. Let me know what the odds are for that one. And maybe, maybe I'll introduce both of you.

By the way, zero disrespect to Bruce Buffer whatsoever. I just always thought it was the play by play guy was, was considered the voice up. So how's that, how's that going for you? Because if anybody who doesn't, I know you've told the story a million times,

but for people that don't know, John and I worked together at the old 15, 10, the zone days, he was an intern and then he was sort of there. And then I looked in one day, and he was my co-host. And I was super prickly about it in the beginning because no one said anything to me. I was like, this is my afternoon show, I thought, with Pep.

And Pep hates the fact that we've both become successful. He reminds us of it every few months or so, which is, look, he was the heart and soul of the show that we did it, but how has this 10 year run been for you? Not only calling UFC, but transitioning out of Boston, transitioning out of ESPN and really being part of the UFC thing. Now, every weekend, your show, like you are part of it, man. And I couldn't be prouder of you. Well, thank you, man. It's been crazy, right? I mean, there's not a lot of time to look up with no offseason. Oftentimes, I find myself wondering how heightened anticipation would be if the UFC would just lay out for four weeks, you know, take off the month of September when the NFL starts and all of a sudden do a show every October 1st. It would be absolutely bananas, but there's no time for that.

You know, eight years to the day yesterday, actually, when I started. And it sort of has aligned with me having three children. So I think my whole life just feels very chaotic and unbalanced at times. I think the nature of a UFC telecast is such that seven hours on the air, 26 fighters a week, if you're doing four or five in a six-week stretch, the volume of fighters to learn, never mind show formatics, is just absurd and not at all like calling a football game with respect of course to the NFL guys that do 17 straight weeks so it's been a grind you know I don't know how long I'll be able to do it physically with all the international travel which I guess has waned a little bit over the last few years but uh you know I'm 41 41 years old I definitely feel it you know um but this has certainly become a

dream job for me and uh it's the speed I want and and at least for this weekend feel it, you know, but this has certainly become a dream job for me and it's the speed I want. And at least for this weekend, I have it, you know. So are you still the, you know, for everybody that talks about my prep work, I would put you up there with anybody I've ever worked with. Like, will you know off the top of your head, I'm not going to do this to you, but every single ranking of every weight class? No, I don't memorize the rankings. I mean, there's certain things that I think are probably more valuable to me than that. I did have, though, because you brought it up yesterday, I do fighter calls on Tuesday,

and I asked the fighter if he was ranked. I was like, you're not ranked, are you? And he's like, yeah, I'm number 12 in the world, mother. So I probably should have known that he had a number 12 next to his name. But there's just so much information and such tight windows to get these personal stories across. So that's a big part of my focus. You know, a lot of these fighters are motivated by different things. And it's crazy how much hardship and adversity the average UFC fighter has been through to get to this stage.

But, you know, cram is an ugly word for play-by-play guys, right? They say, oh, he's cramming, he's not doing the work enough in advance. But the nature of our sport and job is such that there is some cramming. You know, fight week is a little bit like hell week, and that's kind of just the nature of the beast. So when I looked at the rankings, I was doing this

last night, and I was looking at it today, and there's an argument to be made, because I think every sport's always trying to figure out some sort of way to crossover right the UFC fan is always going to be there need to figure out who those crossover guys are so when you have Brock going in and out of the sport Connor at his peak Ronda Rousey who you know I'm gonna that whole story is fascinating to me and I'm not not going to be negative about it, but when it was positive, it was unbelievable. And yet, I'll look at the depth of, say, I'm trying to pick a good. Let me go welterweight depth, okay?

Oh, yeah. Woodley, Covington, Masvidal's fight, and we're going to get to the 244 matchups here in a sec. Nate Diaz, who I still love, who's obviously going up against Masvidal in fight and we're going to get to the 244 matchups here in a sec Nate Diaz who I still love who's obviously going up against Masvidal in the main event Till I mean Steven Thompson who I thought in one of those I don't know was it the Woodley fight where I couldn't believe he even got out of some of those chokes

I look at this and be like this I mean Pettis and Till are 10 and 11 there's so much depth to some of these divisions now that I don't know that i ever felt like sometimes i can you know i always say this but like familiarity don't confuse familiarity with depth but i do think that there's insane depth in this sport whereas others especially outside people are going oh you know where are the stars where are the stars which i'm sure is

something dana wants something that's good for business what you all want but it really is ignoring the fact that there's matchups every week where I go, oh my God, I got to see these two guys fight each other. It's so true. And you picked the right division, right? Because you mentioned Steven Wonderboy Thompson, two-time UFC welterweight title challenger. He's fighting the number 14th ranked guy in the world who your audience probably hasn't heard of, Vicente Luque, who's only won six in a row and 10 of 11 at 170 pounds, and he's put almost everybody away along the way. So certainly the depth and just the average UFC fighter is just a lot better, obviously, than he was 10 years ago. But the truly elite guys,

you know, the top 15, top 10 in certain divisions are all world-class fighters who on any given Saturday night probably could beat the number three guy in the world. In terms of the superstars, it's always an interesting conversation and one that I think Dana White is dismissive of when people worry about who's the next superstar walking through the door. And his point just continuously gets made for him when a guy like Israel Adesanya emerges seemingly out of nowhere, even though he certainly didn't emerge out of nowhere. But you can argue right now Israel Adesanya, who is not on the roster in January of 2018, is the biggest superstar in mixed martial arts in the UFC, could be on the cover of the video game.

I mean, the world is his oyster right now. And he was not on anyone's radar really two years ago. So I feel like we're in a pretty good spot, probably the best spot we've ever been in before in terms of the massive talent. Obviously, a lot of it's going to be showcased at MSG here in a few days. What's going on with the last stylebender there, Adesanya, who you mentioned, who is a star? His Gastelum fight I thought was incredible. We can get to Calvin a little bit later here. Jones is always an interesting Twitter follow.

You were early on this i remember the first time i ever talked to you about john jones you're like dude this guy's unbelievable and then you start watching it and you're like yep i've gone to see his fights twice i saw you with the last one that was in la and i just was there because i wanted to see him fight again because i'm just that impressive i met him a couple times one time he was awesome the second time he was like yep this is not the setting where we were going to say hi to each other. I was like, oh, okay, cool. I'll go fuck off in the corner. The other time at ESPN, really nice to. And are we going to look at guys, you know, jumping up a class like Adesanya who says, you know, I'm coming for you. It's interesting to think about what Jon Jones's goals are right now, because for a while there,

he was tracking like a guy who wanted to fight four times a year and truly be a 20-time UFC champion. He's still the best fighter that I've ever seen, skill for skill, no doubt about it, and we still probably haven't seen 60% of what he can actually do. I don't know right now if his appetite is for the massive fights, or if it is to continue to defend the

light heavyweight belt against guys like Jan Wachowicz and Dominic Reyes, who maybe aren't going to ring true with a lot of mainstream sports fans, at least in the United States. The Adesanya fight is certainly there for John if he wants it. I don't think it's a fight that's going to ring true with a lot of mainstream sports fans, at least in the United States. The Adesanya fight is certainly there for John if he wants it. I don't think it's a fight that's going to happen anytime soon. But, you know, our former boss, Lorenzo Fertitta,

would always talk about striking while the iron is hot. And if Adesanya loses a fight, obviously there's some steam lost off of that John Jones matchup. And at 185 pounds, you're going to see a guy this weekend in Kelvin Gastelum who gave him a fight of the year back in April who in a rematch has a great chance to beat Adesanya

so as good as he has been 7-0 in the UFC 18-0 overall I'm not sure size wise he's ready for Jon Jones right now there's still

plenty of middleweight challenges that I think he needs to tackle first The Gastelum fight I thought I hustled Cal Hurd he and I went to his private club, the 900 Club down there in Manhattan Beach,

and we got together for a couple Coors Lights, and I was like, let's bet on this. And he was like, all right, I love it. So I go, let's bet. And I go, I'll take Calvin for $100. And he sees him come out, and then he sees Adesanya come out. He's like, oh my God, you're an idiot.

And I'm like, yes. I'm like, I've got God, you're an idiot. And I'm like, yes. I'm like, I've got him. I've got him. And then I thought Calvin was going to win the fight a bunch of different times. And then at the end, you know, because you just look at him coming out. So he's your favorite fighter right now, Gastelum? I mean, favorite fighter to watch, you know, consistently because he does prioritize putting on a show, and yet he is world-class. I mean, to my point earlier, he's the true definition for me of, on any given Saturday night, he can be the world champion.

And obviously came very close to becoming the interim champion against Israel Adesanya. The desire has started to catch up with just the natural gifts, and that's obviously a scary proposition for the rest of this division. You know, he's a former welterweight at well-documented issues, cutting down to 170 pounds. At one point, Gaslam fought Tyron Woodley, and he weighed like 183. Max was 171. So Dana White sort of forced the issue.

He moved up to middleweight where he's been wildly successful. And he's fighting another guy in Darren Phil, who is now moving up to the UFC's middleweight division, who hits like a truck, kicks like a mule, and is very much excited to doubt a lot of naysayers that he has in this Gaslam matchup this weekend. So our middleweight division has never been stronger with respect to the great Anderson Silva. And obviously that fight should be a good showcase for it here in the co-main event coming up Saturday. So you're not even afraid to say that somebody's your favorite fighter to watch, knowing that you're calling that fight?

Like the Darren Till crew? Well, I mean, and later today, you know, maybe I'll drop a Darren Till on you. But I've said to KG recently, and that's why I said to you off the air, I've said to him to his face recently, I can't think of a fighter who I have more fun watching do his job than you. And I said it to him again yesterday. Oh, man, I'm just getting so hyped up just sitting here. Oh dude, you and me both.

Okay, let's do this. Let's do this. Give me the, not the bullshit interview thing. Do the guy, we've known each other for a decade and a half. What's it like working for this thing? What's it like working for Dana? Like, give me the story that either it's setting the record straight and what it's really like or letting us you know those of us on the outside understand what it's like it's this traveling circus this rock star crew of guys and personalities where it's alphas everywhere what the fuck is it like man it's crazy right and uh i don't even want to think about what well maybe i do want to think about what, well, maybe I do want to

think about what it would have been like for me as a single guy on the road. I mean, the nature of my job is such that I'm very much a boy scout of America when I'm on the road, because there's so much damn work to do. And if I'm trying to be any sort of father at home, I really have to work during fight weeks. So it's less recreational for me. You know, it's hard working for Dana White, right? I mean, I have buffers, you know, know, and normally I don't hear a whole lot from Dana, whether it's good or bad, but he's a hard guy to work for. You know, my contract certainly says that they can get rid of me at any time. And even though that might not be my reality and it sounds trite as hell, but I really do treat every show like it could be my last. It has to have maximum

effort because he's a very demanding boss. And oftentimes, you know, we're being judged on every single utterance over seven hours by some very demanding men and women. So I take it very seriously, maybe too seriously at times. But, you know, it's gotten me, I guess, here. So I just try to stick to it it, but dude, the lifestyle is crazy. I outlined some of it off the top. I don't know how these people have been doing it for 20 years are still standing up. You know, I mean, it is intense. There's no doubt about it. Is it that Dana's intense? Because like, whatever it is with Dana, he gets it. I watched the Chuck and Tito 30 for 30, which I thought was amazing. I mean, you know, that was, that was bringing it back to like, when I thought the 30 for 30s in the beginning were incredible and that felt incredible again. And, you know, go up to big bear and Chuck, you know, I was always much more of a Chuck guy than a Tito guy, but I started to have more sympathy for Tito after learning about, you know, you grow up in a tough childhood,

man, you know, home's supposed to be a place that's safe and it's not. And you start to understand Tito a little bit more. And even Chuck was like, dude, you know, whatever. Like, why can't we just fight? And then Dana's like, Tito's an idiot. He's a dumb person. I don't like him. And I'm thinking like, this is, can you imagine Adam Silver saying, you know what, this Steph guy's soft as shit. Like, it's just such a different element.

And maybe it's the fighting game, but it's just so different. So I have a ton of respect for Dana. I like Dana. I don't think he gives two shits about what I so different. So I have a ton of respect for Dana. I like Dana. I don't think he gives two shits about what I have to say. I've talked to him a million times, but part of me is like, yeah, I bet it is tough. But the other part of me is like, in a way, I kind of love it. Although I don't have to work for him.

So, well, I've even said to my direct boss, you know, maybe it's a performance enhancer, that type of pressure, whether it's put on by them or if I put it on myself. But he still handles so much when it comes to this live production. And even if 10 years from now or however many years from now, not working for the UFC, I will still promote his greatness and his all-time status as just an amazing intellectual promoter who doesn't get enough credit for his overall IQ and his ability to understand that actually a BMF championship for the baddest motherfucker this weekend at Madison Square Garden actually makes sense. And it has resonated with fans to a significant extent when

certainly at first when I heard it, I was like, what's going on? How's the UFC welterweight champion feel about a BMF belt in his division? And obviously, uh, it, it works, you know, because we're trending in a very positive way, obviously in terms of the pay-per-view this weekend.

Yeah. Just to understand. So it's the baddest motherfucker belt that you just get. And the rock is presenting it this weekend too, because that was tough. Like me researching for all this different stuff. And I ended up going through all this different stuff. I'm like,

it's just funny how it works. Like UFC, you type it in this week week it's all stories about the fucking rock and I like the rock yeah he will uh he will be donning the winner uh with the BMF belt obviously Jorge Masvidal is a Miami guy as is the rock so there's an obvious connection there if Jorge Masvidal is able to win it but yeah I mean what from what I've heard and been told it's a fifty thousand dollar belt it's not a belt that's going I've heard and been told, it's a $50,000 belt. It's not a belt that's going to be defended in the UFC, but it's a historic fight and very interested. Obviously, every time Nate Diaz fights, it's just a massive deal for all of us inside the sport

and beyond. So I'm just excited to see how staying active is going to work out for one of the biggest stars in the game. More with John Anik here in a second, but alright guys, big news. NFL superstar J.J. Watt wants to change your life, and no, he's not doing a TED Talk or writing a self-help book. This is way better. To support a great cause, J.J. Watt has teamed up with Omaze to offer you the chance to win a brand new Ford Raptor

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promo code Rosillo150. If you're listening to that and not doing it, what's wrong with you? Just go do it. Done. 150 free entries from your boy. Okay, Massoud Hall, researching him again this week, and I know he's picked up momentum.

I mean, his knee against Askren is insane um the fight against Darren Till is who I still have a lot of respect for I just always I'm with you all the time like the guy's just tough like if you win that's a big time win against that guy and then I was watching his backyard fights with Ray Kimbo's protege I'm like oh that's right that's that's who Masvidal was so why why is this happening now with jorge masvidal in this ds fight i mean i know it's a headliner i know we're talking a major market here but it it feels like it's building is he a better fighter is he just on a streak or is this just all sort of happening at the right time for him because i feel like i'm hearing about

more in the last couple years than ever before. Yeah, I mean, you set up the backstory pretty well. He is definitely Jorge Masvidal version 2.0. He is definitely a better fighter. I think four of his six UFC losses have been by split decision, and it's amazing to think what his career trajectory could have been at 155 pounds, had a couple of those high-level fights and matchups gone his way, but he has prioritized finishing. And that's what I think makes five rounds, 25 minutes. So interesting this weekend against somebody as durable as Nate Diaz. He's definitely a different fighter, but this has been a huge year for him. I'll try to set it up quickly, but we're not for Israel Adesanya. Mosfetal is the go away winner for 2019 fighter of the year. I mean, you saw what he did to Darren Till. Then there was the three-piece Minnesota episode backstage where he got confronted by Leon Edwards, another fighter

who had won that night, and he promptly threw hands at him backstage. Then he produces the fastest knockout in UFC history in five seconds. I feel like if Miami, Florida, and this market where I live could get behind him the way Cleveland, Ohio has supported our heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic, that I would mention Masvidal in the class of an APS as one of the biggest superstars in the sport. And I think what he is able to do this weekend will go a long way in determining if he can actually sell out the American Airlines arena. I don't know if he can do that.

We haven't been to Miami in ages. But it's all in front of Masvidal. His focus still is the undisputed title. And obviously, if he wins this weekend, he's got a great chance to compete for that but I just couldn't be happier for the guy dude I mean I've known him almost as long as I've known you one of the first fights I ever called was his in 2009 and

he's just been through it all I mean if anyone richly deserving of this opportunity and this belt and this platform it's game great for sure but he's going up against a guy I know you love in NADS and I have grown to love him one. It's game great for sure. But he's going up against a guy I know you love in Nate Diaz. I have grown to love him in a way that's unlike anything else. Now, when he fought Conor, I rooted

for Conor because I enjoy Conor. We'll get to him in a second. Nate, in classic Nate fashion, the Pettis fight, he comes out there. I was at a party watching it. I bet on Diaz. Everybody's looking at Pettis going, I'll take all your money. I I'm like, I don't care. I'm just betting. I'm just betting on Nate Diaz because I don't think he feels punches the same way normal humans do. I don't think he has to be in shape the same way other people do. I don't know that you know what's coming at you, except that his shutdown is not where everybody else's is. And then, of course, he almost quits this fight and calls out every single person he could think of, and then it's still on.

So where is Nate Diaz now in trying to figure this guy out, which I think is probably a stupid question? Well, I think it's a good question. I sort of am excited to see what he can do with a relatively quick turnaround, right? I mean, he ended a three-year layoff, obviously, when he fought Showtime Pettis. Now he's in an active competition schedule, which in theory should produce a great result because the August result was largely very productive. I mean, he obviously absorbed some damage to that right eye. I think in a five-round fight against Jorge Mastro, you've certainly got to be careful that a cut doesn't become a major factor in this fight.

major factor in this fight. But you don't, under any circumstance, in my opinion, walk up to a window and bet against Nate Diaz, right? Because of his ability to absorb punishment. He even ate a big knee up the gut from Pettis early on, just walks right through it. There's a mental and physical toughness to these guys that I just can't relate to. And when you parlay that with their martial arts acumen, I mean, these are true martial artists, all the little nuances and the clench and just the boxing chops and everything else.

The grappling is second nature to these guys. There's so much to like about these Diaz brothers, and I actually think it stands to reason that Nate would be better having competed three months ago than he was back in August. Conor's 31 now. We know all the headlines have been negative. I'm not going to get into it because I don't know what's real and what isn't at this point the Habib

fight I just went wicked ethnic pronunciation right there that was amazing that was like Hebrew right there yeah I don't even know why I did that I wasn't trying to impress you that would be something you would do you would have done that and sound so annoying doing it I sound so annoying every time I say it did that. I wasn't trying to impress you. That would be something you would do. You would have done that in like 0-4.

It sounds so annoying doing it. It sounds so annoying every time I say it. I would have given you a 29, 28-year-old Rosillo eye roll if we were in the studio in the zone. I almost want to erase that from the podcast, but I did it. I'm not going to allow myself.

That fight was just over a year ago and then right his other fight before that was three years ago against Eddie Alvarez right and then we know he had the Mayweather thing which was August of um 17 and so whenever I hear people knock McGregor I'll be like hey how about you win something you're like well first of all what he did against Mayweather I think is a win because if you're going to talk and I know who Mayweather is or isn't as a fighter but when I watch those two guys box I go this is actually not going even remotely as horrible as everybody thought it would go um so in a way I'm not giving him a W but anybody want to throw

some L on McGregor getting a huge check out of that and not embarrassing himself against Mayweather? I don't know. You just don't like Conor. I understand why people don't like him. And then he loses to, I don't even want to say his name again, in a submission just because we knew, look, he's a different class of fighter. The kid was fighting bears. But where are we right now with Conor?

Where does this story go? A lot of these guys don't have happy endings. I'm afraid it's heading down that road, but I refuse to believe that this guy can't win a fight again at 31 in the Octagon. Oh, I think he can win. I think there are certainly favorable matchups for him in the lightweight division's top 10. You know, I think you have to be real careful fighting, you know, the human highlight reel, Justin Gaethje.

You know, I think Donald Cerrone might be a more palpable fight for Conor McGregor. And maybe there will be some strategy as far as the matchmaking from a McGregor standpoint, because he does need a win, right? I mean, I guess he doesn't really need a win, but I think he really cares about his mixed martial arts legacy. And the win over Nate Diaz over five rounds is obviously a huge feather in his cap. Simultaneous two-division champion first to do that, obviously. But I think it's

hard for him right now in this 155-pound division that Khabib's the champion and the other guys in the top five just present real stylistic challenges for him. So when he gets a title fight, I think you've got to be real careful picking the opponent because there just aren't a lot of easy outs for him. But I think January 18th, I'm hopeful it'll be Las Vegas. He will be back and he'll be back because he cares about his UFC legacy. I don't think, I mean, there's a monetary component, of course, but I really think he wants to prove himself as a fighter and the only place to do that

obviously is the UFC. Habib's just an awful matchup for him too, right? Like I wanted to believe he could win that fight, but, you know, I remember seeing McGregor in Vegas for what's wrong with me here? Why can't I remember his name? Um, he was, he was the wrestler.

He got in there late. He was like a late substitution Vegas show. Uh, yeah, it was Chad Mendez. Yep. So yeah, Mendez had him at one point. You're like, oh my God, he's going to lose this whole, I mean, you felt like you were doing the broadcast from Dublin and that all my gosh. Right. And was what he's a california guy too isn't he yeah and uh and oh dude the connor atmosphere is just nuts and he fought chad his acl was hanging by a thread

so uh yeah there have been a lot of obviously hall of fame wins for connor i just i do believe and i was wrong about Rhonda, right? I felt like Rhonda wouldn't want to sit up, eat up in retirement. Having said, you know, I never fought Cyborg should be sick of people saying, dude, why didn't you ever fight Cyborg? And of course we've seen what's happened to Chris Cyborg and credit to Rhonda for fighting a man who has gone on to be the greatest of all time. But I don't think Connor is going to enjoy, you know, feed up proper 12 whiskey as much if he doesn't beat a couple of these lightweights right now while he's in his prime. So, um, clock is ticking, you know, January 18th, let's go.

Well said. Well said, uh, Ray Longo minute with, uh, with you and Florian. Uh, I love it. I absolutely love it on the podcast. Again, the Anik and Florian podcast, check it out. Subscribe please for my friend. So Ray is, uh, he's, I know, I donik and Florian podcast. Check it out. Subscribe, please, for my friend. So, Ray is, he's, I know, I don't want to say anything about Weidman because

I know you're like, I was a peak Rockhold. I'm still supportive of Luke Rockhold. I just was on the UFC site today and I noticed there's a couple hoodies there. Unfortunately on sale, if you guys want to grab those, but I'm going to go pick myself up a couple. No, I'm going to pick up a couple Rockhold shirts and cut the sleeves off and start walking around and then i'll dm him and invite up no i'll

dm him and invite up to manhattan beach again and he'll be like hey bro thanks for watching the fight and having me on the show but you can fuck off like we're not gonna hang out um you're not not a groom in my way all right i don't want to even talk about Rockhold because it's going to depress me. But so Ray Longo's widened his guy and Chris hasn't had a great run of it. And I just, this isn't even about him. Longo said something I thought was really interesting because you were talking about different fighters. And one guy that was brought up, he was like, hey, he's one of the good guys. He's one of the few guys. And I went, wow, that's interesting.

Does that mean that the sport is, does it have less good guys now? Was it better in the Chuck and Tito days? Was it better with Anderson Silva? Was it better with, you know, shit go back into the nineties or, you know, is that just older generations ripping younger people in the cyclical fashion that we've done since we could start talking to each other? Um, how do you feel about just when you meet fighters now and you meet these guys, like people could say today's NBA players, more self-entitled, more about his brand, you know, tougher to even listen to. And I can understand those arguments, but I'm not sure if any of this stuff is accurate. Yeah. I mean, I think Ray is speaking a little bit to an older generation. Certainly we're in an era where

if you want to fight and you use your post-fight interview as a platform to call out a next opponent, there's a better chance of you getting that fight than if you just tow the respectful martial artist company line, right? So we are in an era where I think flamboyance and being a little bit boisterous and having a personality is richly rewarded. And it doesn't really dovetail with martial arts at its core, which is respectful and bowing and sportsmanlike and everything else. But dude, I mean, I'm immersed in this roster 24-7, 365, much more so than my man, Ray Longo, whom I love. And I can tell you, it's never been as good as it is right now.

I mean, these athletes are just amazing to deal with. The stories that they sit down and tell us, the adversity, whether it comes to visas or getting to the United States, you know, on a makeshift boat that is tires. I mean, it's just unbelievable. Give me the guy that his story, you were like, you're going to be kidding me.

The one that will be the first one you'll always think of. So we have a fighter who his family is basically in Nigeria and he and his younger siblings were able to get out, but his older siblings were still back there because they weren't able to get visas. So this dude literally won a UFC performance bonus and filled his car with goods that they could sell in a store and ship the entire car against his coach's wishes, by the way, because they want him to invest and save his money a little bit.

But this dude, his whole focus is like winning fights to try to bring his family to the United States of America, his older siblings. You know, he helps them set up a storefront in Nigeria to try to sort of make ends meet. And I think they're just the stories like that are just so present in our sport. You know, some dude is like, I got 17 children, you know, and trying to support them all somehow, some way. Yeah, it's a lot. I mean, you know, probably three or four different moms.

It's crazy, man. It really is. But I think more so in our sport because these guys truly are fighters and maybe this was their outlet, you know you know, um, it's been, it's been a powerful thing for me to experience. And I would stand by these athletes every step of the way, uh, in terms of how they approach us and our staff and everything else. Yeah. And I don't want to put words into Longo's mouth, uh,

his mouth on that at all. It just, you know, it could have been very much just a phrase that you use. Hey, he's one of the good guys. We need more good guys. Yeah, I think he gets a little bit ornery with it. And I certainly think he goes back with a few guys like Nate Diaz, who he knows has always done things the right way. And he's got Ray Longley. You know, he's New York, right?

He's been on our show since episode one. He's got a little chip on his shoulder. And he certainly maximizes the platform for sure. I love the guy. I love it. I was immediately like, oh for sure. I love the guy. I love it. I was immediately like, oh man, I'm back in because I just was so excited about this card. All right, are you ready for rapid fire

before we let you go? It's five questions. Let's fucking do it. In honor of Craig Kilbourne, but we don't always ask five. So that's a little twist on it. Okay. Everyone hates Greg Hardy.

True or false? False. Because I Everyone hates Greg Hardy. True or false? False. Because I don't hate him. He treats our staff like gold, but I mean, do the majority of people dislike him strongly? True. Did you get crushed because you said the guy can't catch a break when he got disqualified because of the inhaler?

I get crushed every time I support him. I can't even comment on his Instagram photo, you know, without getting absolutely mauled by UFC fans. Okay. Give me two fighters who absolutely hate each other for real. Well, you know, Justin Gaethje and Paul Felder, there's definite lightweight animosity there.

I don't think Gaethje is going to give Paul the fight. Certainly what we had in Boston 12 days ago with Yair Rodriguez and Jeremy Stephens, that was raw pre-fight emotion between two guys that I haven't seen in some time. So those are two for you. Who most looks like a creative character on the

UFC video game? Oh, gosh, I don't know. Nico Price? I don't know. Price I don't know Sousa Sousa's the answer we were looking for Sousa sorry

sorry Brian Stan versus Thor oh I mean you gotta bet on the greatest living American Brian Stan I don't know how he gets it done

but he'll find a way you know he only sleeps four hours he only needs four. Brian Stan, the greatest living American. Did you come up with that nickname for him? Yeah, I mean, I think my twin brother had a

piece in it because he said that John Anderson, I believe, on SportsCenter used to refer to Tom Brady as the greatest living American, and Tom never served our country. Let's just start there. With Tom's lack of service, you cannot be the greatest living American having not served the country. So my brother said it to me.

I dropped it in passing one time and it kind of stuck. We got to get shirts made. Would Stan sign off of those if I were involved or would that be a hard no? I freaking love the guy. 100% he would sign off.

If you were the conduit through which they were getting made, I don't know. I feel like we need to do a statement. I still have tickets for him if he needs a college football game. Okay. Let me see here. I got a couple more.

Who's the single toughest guy you've been around? It doesn't necessarily mean his record, his legacy, his belt, or all those different things. Who do you think of doing it? I'm not even talking active right now. It could be somebody active right now. But the alley, I want this guy. Man, well, Nate Diaz is fighting this weekend,

so I won't say Nate or Kelvin Gastelum, who is literally back alley choice number one, because he is the consummate guy who cannot have a great training camp and be a little bit overweight and still just kick your ass. But dude, it's Justin Gaethje. Like if your audience does not know who Justin Gaethje is, I hope when they're done listening, they will just go Google Justin Gaethje. And, you know, you'd probably go down a rabbit hole. That'll take a couple hours. He is a monster. He wants to go to those dark places, just like Tony Ferguson.

There's so many guys I could answer this question with, but Gaethje won and Ferguson right there behind him, I guess. Okay. Wow. That is some love for a third year. I've seen him fight. I'm trying to think who I saw him fight against most recently. He's a total fucking maniac, bro.

I'm like, if he fights Connor, dude, like I'd be too anxious to call the fight. You're going to ask that you're calling sick on that one. Okay. Three more, three more.

Cause I know I want to let you go here. You get a family. Okay. Which fighter would I like the most to hang out with? And which fighter would, would I want to hang out with the least? So there's so many guys who I think you would really like hanging out with. You know,

I love Calvin cater because he is, he's main eventing here in a couple of weeks. He's the best fighter to ever come out of Boston, Massachusetts skill for skill. And he's got a real chance to become UFC champion. I love talking to him. Who would you least like to talk to? I don't know. I mean, I think you'd enjoy

Stephen Wonderboy Thompson's company. I've met him. But eventually, I think there's a depth to you. And I think you would want to go pretty deep with him. I don't know if he'd meet you there. No, that's true. Because when I did see him, and it was after the Woodley fight, and I felt

like I wanted to compliment him. You was so you know how it is like those you'll see a guy lose and you end up liking them more after a loss than a win of course and i think that's what this sport what's so great and unique about this sport i mean not sitting there after ohio state kills somebody watching the other team going you know what i really like northwestern okay two more best city right now you can go to any city to call a fight. I almost feel like Vegas isn't allowed to be eligible for here. I don't even know if that would be your pick. I know you lived in the area, but give me the city that you get most pumped up for. Although I'm afraid you're not going to pick anything that's too far away because I know that you're an

international travel thing. You're probably over at this point in your life. Well, at this point, when I'm done with this job, I will shred my passport and I will never leave the United States of America again. So as much as I have loved going to Australia 11 times, and I would put Sydney and Melbourne up with any answer I would give you, it's just way too far, obnoxiously far. So that's not the answer. I'd probably say Nashville, Tennessee, although it's getting overpopulated, but that's where I call my first UFC fight, one of my favorite American cities. But you know, for me, I mean, all I like to do is eat, smoke a little weed and gamble and Las Vegas accomplishes a lot of those things for me. That's true. I feel like one of my great regrets is not going to be like, I want to go to Melbourne

so bad. I want to check it all out. And I think I should have just paired it up with one of your fights. Maybe I'll still do that. No past tense. I mean, there's it up with one of your fights. Maybe I'll still do that. No past tense. I mean, Israel Adesanya is the undefeated UFC middleweight champion. There's definitely going to be opportunities to get back to Australia, New Zealand. Well, Adesanya's next defense I would think would be in New Zealand, but we go to Australia once a year usually for a big pay-per-view.

And if you can stomach the flight, my man, get one of those lay flats up front, flight that cat, and we'd love to have you. Okay. All right, final one. Are you surprised that there's never been a fighter whose primary style is Tai Chi to ever win a belt? 100%. How has that not happened? I mean, 26 years into this thing, you know? Man, I mean, you know, I don't get it. That's after me reading the Bruce Lee book.

You know, the Christian McCaffrey-Bruce Lee connection, right, has made me want to go read Bruce Lee's books, you know? You know what? I know I've been bad about this. I'm going to send you the newest one right now, as soon as we get done with this. I'm serious. I'm going to have it sent right to your house.

Love you. Love you. You know, I feel the same way about you. So proud of you. And you're so good at this. And yeah, you are the voice of the UFC. UFC 244, check it out. Awesome card.

Awesome card. And check out the Florian podcast with John Eric as well. I know it's Anik and Florian, but you know what I'm saying. All right, buddy. I'll talk to you soon. Thank you, buddy. Appreciate it very much. Thanks to John-Erik. Chris Ryan is going to make

his Rosillo pod debut. Before we do that, DAZN, fight fans, it's fight season on DAZN. This fall, you get a stacked lineup of the biggest fights featuring the biggest stars in boxing like Canelo Alvarez and Andy Ruiz Jr. Only on DAZN. With a

DAZN subscription, you can watch Canelo vs. Kovalev on DAZN. With a DAZN subscription, you can watch Canelo vs. Kovalev on November 2nd. Canelo is moving up two weight classes to face Kovalev for the light heavyweight world title. Can he clinch yet another title with a new 175-pound weight class? And you also get the Ruiz vs. Joshua rematch

on December 7th after an unbelievable underdog win against Anthony Joshua. Andy Ruiz is determined to spend his place in title as the heavyweight champion of the world. Was it just a fluke or does he have what it takes to beat Joshua a second time? I can't wait to watch that rematch, by the way, because Ruiz, you know what we're going to say,

too many posts on Instagram. Hate to see it. Remember when Rory McIlroy got a girlfriend? Up next. hate to see it remember when rory mcelroy got a girlfriend up next mcelroy's hooking up more often than he used to but how's a short game although you know if you're famous i guess some would argue if you got a girlfriend you'd be hooking up less this podcast just got pretty adult sorry to the kids in the back seat. Earmuffs. Or maybe they don't even understand it and they're asking their dad to rewind it and they're like, what? What is he talking about?

Sorry, man. I, you know, get that Mickey Mouse in the paycheck for 14 years and you just start start loosening up a bit. This is not only the best schedule in boxing history, but the best value too.

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There's one undefeated team in the East, and they are Chris Ryan's Philadelphia 76ers. Chris Ryan of the Ringer, Little Sixers, Little Succession. How are you, sir? I'm so good, man. I'm good because I'm here. Not only because the Sixers are undefeated, I'm just so happy to be here with you. You're very, your whole thing about you. Are you always this positive?

Do you go home and you tear up dolls or something? No, I actually, I feel like I bring pretty good energy to things, but like it's been a long time for, to be in the catbird seat for Philly, for the Sixers like this. So it feels really good. I mean, on any given night, you just feel like if you lose, it's not the end of the world. You know what I mean? Like there's just like, you lose it's not the end of the world you know what i mean like there's just like you really feel like this is their conference to lose it does feel that way yeah and it when we were doing the over-unders you're like wow you know milwaukee and i was one of the you know of all the stuff i've gotten wrong i was i was still very pro toronto last year and you know when they went down i was like i'm not i'm not writing this team off or anything but when you really started going kind of one through seven one one through eight, I go,

why the hell would I pick anyone other than Philly? Yeah. And that's, and yet, you know, what's funny is I'm watching that. I watched the Sixers, Celts. I watched the full Atlanta game because I was really keeping track of the rotations because I just want to know, I'm not doing a thing where I go, oh, I don't know about that. Cause I have all those things and I'm writing them down and be like, will this be a thing? Will this be a thing? Will this be a thing? And they're three, oh, I don't know about that. Because I have all those things.

I'm writing them down and be like, will this be a thing? Will this be a thing? Will this be a thing? And they're 3-0. 3-0 doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I'm with you. So give me your long-term kind of blink of what you've seen in a week. Yeah, well, a couple of things. One is, I don't know if you know this,

Bal Horford just does the little things. It's all the things that don't count in the box. You already knew this stuff, but isn't it funny for a new city to learn like hey you i know you paid a lot for him but understand like he's gonna have four points in games there was some possession against atlanta i can't remember what part of the game it was but it was just like a little bit of like he just the ball came off the rim and it was just out of nowhere horford just like taps it up one more time just so someone else could get the offensive rebound i was like i don't think I've ever seen that before. Like, I honestly felt like I was seeing a new kind of basketball be played where all these little hockey assists things happen

on the court and they're all down to him. Also, guys just exploding off of screens when they run into him. I also really, for as much as it looks like he's shooting a bowling ball, really like Josh Richardson as the point of attack defender on the perimeter, which is like kind of what we were supposed to have with jimmy but we haven't really had since covington in a lot of ways and you can see what covington's doing with minnesota now and how important that that position is now the guy who's like i'm gonna go

attack the ball uh and yeah the ben simmons i think ben is actually taking a leap right now whoa that might be the headline. Yeah, I don't give a shit about the three-point shooting. I think that he is playing with a chip on his shoulder, and I think he is basically unstoppable in transition right now. He hasn't taken a three yet. No. Is there a Twitter feed?

Has Ben Simmons taken a three yet? No? All right. So defensively, they're so big. Yeah. And in that Atlanta game, they went without a field goal for, I think, 540. I'm probably off by a few seconds here or there, but their only points were a couple free throws.

Do you find it pleasant to watch so far? Who? The Sixers. Offensively, no. Yeah. Not at all. It's choppy. It's like a lot of free throws.

Yeah. Bill had a great text to me. He goes, it looked like every game they play on offense, and granted, this is three in, and it was...

I don't think he's going to care that I'm sharing. It's just a great line. It's one I don't care. He was like, it looks like they've all just met each other. Yeah.

Every game. Yeah. But it didn't matter. Their defense was so good. What I'm surprised by is I thought we would see some different staggered pairings. Right. More Embiid Simmons not playing together stuff yeah and it's it's not any different no and then I thought okay well then Horford and Embiid will be split up more

and for that game they weren't split up as much as I thought so it really is kind of this closing thing where and I'm not making too much out of it after just the three games, but I can't wait to see what the rotations look like, say, 20 games in, to see if there's any change. And, you know, 3-0, it sounds cool and all, but I don't know. Like, that's the part with them where I'm like,

hey, you picked them to win the East. You think they're clearly the best in the paper, but why are you still having these weird, like, moments with them offensively? But I would think Sixers fans would feel that way, that way do you think it's because it goes against everything that we've been sort of looking for in basketball for the last few years is these like electric offenses floor spacing shooting and this is like more like a lower east side bar where you have to like squeeze past seven dudes be like i got an m still holy shit you know you're so excited that

you got your beer and it's like that's what the sixers offense is like right now that's a really good point like we're so conditioned to be like well where are your shooters where are your shooters yeah like is al horford and no it's all tobias it's literally all tobias harris and he's just going to be like he is going to have nights where it doesn't matter but so give me more of a... Expand more on your Simmons thing, taking a next step. Because I'll admit, there was too many times this summer

doing preview stuff where I'd be like, why is everyone just assuming he's a top 10 player? I don't necessarily even know that. Yeah, but I think that the one thing we saw over the playoffs was the all-defense stuff coming out.

Like that he actually is like an elite defender. And to me, watching what happened with him over the summer where it was like, Oh, you know what? You check out this Instagram video. He shot it.

It's happening. You know? And it was like really like condescending in a weird way. And he brought it on himself by putting those videos up. And then the three pointer and the preseason game against the Chinese team at the end of the half. And the guys rushed the court. Like it's Leitner just hit the shot of the spectrum and it's just it was ridiculous and I knew that he

wasn't going to shoot I never ever was like he's going to come out and take three a game I want him to but I knew he wasn't but there seems to be some like an extra level of aggression in his play right now and an understanding that you know if he just kind of does one or two things he's got a floater going right now he's got a little he's got a little bit of a turnaround post jumper happening a little bit i wouldn't necessarily say that it's like it's not tim duncan but he's looking good he just seems to be playing with a nobody can really stop me if i'm playing my game right now kind of attitude you know what i liked about janice's shooting story more so than ben's shooting story was that we knew that janice is not a good three-point shooter yeah but he

still took one or two sure okay yeah and i noticed it at the end of the year where you go that just looks more comfortable and he hit a a couple against Houston where you go, well, now it looks even more comfortable. I agree with you. And that's the thing that you have to understand with basketball. It's so hard to go, all right, all these little things I'm working on. Okay, but what am I really comfortable with? Okay, what I'm comfortable with is getting a screen and going left and then going right and then finishing with my left hand

because I'm really good at it. I'm huge. It's worked. And I just know that. Great players have to force themselves to be uncomfortable in an actual game. And I think it's a hard thing to do. And that's why I look at Giannis and go,

this is why he's ascending to this special level. Because I expect in a couple of years, Giannis is going to be a really good shooter. Yes. And that's the LeBron thing of always adding one thing to your game in the offseason that you then bring out and it's like the new the new color on the palette but i always thought that was um a nurkish thing that wasn't nurkish every summer add something to your game

and the problem with the ben shooting thing is that there's also you i don't you know it's not chip england doesn't need to say like way in here he just doesn't do it because it doesn't look cool because fucking missing does not look cool yeah like missing really bad everything he else he does seems like like he has six cents like his passing i i i love watching his passing he had like a a touch pass into the post to imbied on uh against atlanta that was so beautiful and was so like he saw play happening like three full seconds before it actually happened but he doesn't shoot because it doesn't look cool when he misses really badly and that's what's happening you know what's great you know who's like the worst analytics guy

on the team it's I mean this is stupid to do after three games but Thibel is either come on no he's not well I mean he's Moss he should be banned from going up to the other end he the come on no he's not well I mean he should be banned from going up to the other end of the court on offense but he

the love for Thibel because he was the guy like they had him in in some of those big possessions defensively were like you know cut the head off the snake thing for us

and then he got the start in the Embiid's game I think where he sat the Detroit game yeah so alright so that's good I feel confident I feel confident yeah He got the start in the Embiid's game, I think, where he sat. The Detroit game, yeah. Yeah, so.

All right, so that's good. I feel confident. I feel confident. Yeah. It's a weird thing, though. It's very different to go, yeah, I'm picking them. Wow, look at that team. Oh, my God, that's awesome.

And then I don't want to be the guy in February going, and I feel like I'm going to be like, eh, I still don't know if I love that offense enough. But maybe you're right. Maybe that's the whole point. Is there a Western Conference team that you feel is like the... Equivalent of them? Yeah, equivalent of the Sixers? Or is it just too competitive in the West

that you can't feel that confidence? No, no. I just, I don't, I would, I'm willing to listen to arguments to like five different teams in the West. About five coming out. And nothing's really changed my mind since then. I'd like to see utah and conley play

a little better yeah because i picked them to come out but i think i picked them to come out because i just don't want to sound like everybody else say clipper sixers and then i watched the clippers i went i should have just picked up but but what anthony davis did last night was another gear of yeah i don't know if it's just hey i'm really fresh and ready to go because it's the first week of the season but you look at the free throw numbers for Anthony Davis watching that game, I go, every free throw was either the defense going, we give up, just foul him, or how did you just get that rebound? Grab him.

Well, I was just talking about this with Verrier for group chat, but we were talking about, I think that the idea was LeBron and Anthony Davis and neither have had a teammate like this exactly before, especially Davis, but LeBron had never had a guy like Davis and they were going to free up so much stuff for each other. And Davis was getting tripled last night. Like Davis did that while getting like

they were sending like Ravens defense, like everybody go to the ball on him. And it was just like, no, I'm going to go to the line then. Like I'm going to go to the line and I'm going to get 26 from the line. It was kind of wild. The way he gets started now when he's like, all right, clear out. Yeah.

I mean, guys from Memphis last night were like, what are we supposed to do with this? Here's one thing that I did let creep into my head. They are keeping the big. They are keeping the five out there with him in a way that he's always wanted yes and it still feels stupid yeah because he's that game like hey by the way you realize anthony you're still bigger than most of the fives that play now yeah but he doesn't want to play five i'm like are they going to do this dance where they keep javel mcgee and

keep dwight howard out there with him to make him feel better just because they're worried about resigning him. Right. This is early thoughts, way too early to maybe even say out loud, but I go, they're not even, they're not in that matchup. And then I go, okay, wait a minute,

this is a matchup thing where it's like, well, Valanciunas is going to be out there. This is great. So we keep Valanciunas out there. He has to deal with McGee or Howard. And that way, Jaron Jackson's playing against Anthony Davis. And as much as we all love Jaron Jackson,

he has no chance in hell against Davis. Nobody does. Yeah. No, yeah, but see, you're right. I mean, that's the point of the whole thing. Yeah, and I still have, if you're Jaron Jackson, I mean, I can only imagine how it feels for him.

I'm watching the game last night and Davis, for as much as I've seen him over the years, is still the guy where I'll look up and I'll be like who's playing the three for the Lakers right now I'm like oh wait that's Anthony Davis like he'll be dribbling out on the perimeter I'm like wait did somebody play him is a tall guy playing point guard for the Lakers right now and I'm like oh fuck that's Anthony Davis he's playing five positions on any given possession I'm just glad that everybody else gets to see it now because let's not kid ourselves as hardcore as some fans are they're just not throwing on Pelican game

and I've always loved him I mean I just I felt like his coming out party was two years ago in those playoffs against Portland and then everything goes to shit this past year so all right before we let you go the watch yeah that's your pod against Portland and then everything goes to shit this past year. So, all right, before we let you go, the watch. Yeah.

That's your pod. And me and Andy Greenwald. Yeah. Right. Right. And Andy, who's developing a show. It's coming.

Yeah. It's briar patch. And I think it's coming on early next year on USA. Let's talk succession. Sure. Because you guys really talked it up and it's one of those things where it's like, Hey, do you like this show or do we host a podcast where now we have to say this is the

greatest show of all time? But it felt like in the rankings of recent shows. Yeah. It feels like wherever you want to put it in those top three or four feels like the right slot for it. It's been the best show over the last two years, I think, for sure. What else is in the running? Fleabag, best show over the last two years, I think, for sure. What else is in the running? Fleabag, Atlanta, although Atlanta stretches back to like three years now. Mindhunter. I think there's been a bunch of stuff that's been really good. But part of what Andy and I talk about so much is trying to find the real stuff while there's so much content out there. Where on any given week, there's two to three shows premiering. One or two of them is going to be a Netflix show or an Amazon show that you can binge. So the conversation about that show

is like in hyperdrive because there's some people who are going to watch Mindhunter in two days or three days and they're going to be running around like, you know, fanatics. And then there are some people who like catch up with it over the course of a couple of weeks. So the model where we were all watching Sopranos or Breaking Bad or The Wire on Sunday night and then talking about that episode for a week has been kind of broken. So now you've got all these little pockets of people talking about different shows at different paces. And Succession was a return to that kind of 2012, 2013 feeling of, oh, everybody realized at the same time that this thing is for real. And we're all going to kind of like really savor it this time because we're not all watching Stranger Things in one night.

You know, like it's like the people who are really into that show. So that was part of it. I think part of it is that feeling like you're getting that old school television feeling. And another is just like it's incredibly hard to be that funny and that moving and that thought provoking in an hour. And it manages to do that probably once a week. Now, I think there are good succession episodes and less good succession episodes. It's not like a perfect show by any means, but it's probably the most consistently rewarding one.

I love it because it's probably a bad pitch, you know, because the pitch process now, it's like,'s like well hey just when you think it's this oh it's this and here's the other layer and here's all these other different things like the breaking bad one the way it was first explained to me when i was trying to understand how this world worked which is incredible like hey chemistry teacher had this investment thing early on in his life you know went the safe route he's in high school unfulfilled wife just get a kid who's dealing with some medical issues he finds out terminal cancer lung cancer he's never smoked a day in his life but he's a great chemist and he's like fuck it i'm cooking meth and it's on right and you go whoa yeah like i'm in succession i don't okay rich family say it's the murdochs

but if you want to do a little trump thing in there too you could do that it's new york city it's the one percent but they're new money they're not because that was a really cool development i think and like you could just sit there and say hey we're rich but you're not you're not like mayflower rich right logan is relatively self-made yeah yeah self-made and and then when they go to meet with the pierce family uh-huh yeah right that's a pierce kind of like a graham solsberger kind of like old media like new england i started reading about all that stuff the new york times and and how that's been handed down and it started to remind me of some of the people i went to school in vermont with sure because you're like you go back and you go to visit and be like, oh, I thought my family did well. Like, my God, this is insane.

And I don't know what the pitch is unless it's just trust in that, hey, this guy's a great creator. Adam McKay's part of it. Will Ferrell's going to go ahead and produce it. He loves the script and let's go. And in a way, I don't need, you know, I think where there's so much content, so much competition, it's like, why am I watching this? Right. You know, Billions is the first scene of the pilot is a woman is urinating on Paul Giamatti. And you're like, OK, this is going to be different.

Yeah. And then, you know, in the weirdest way ever of trying to say, like, hey, this makes sense. And then, you know, in the weirdest way ever of trying to say like, hey, this makes sense. I know that at the end of the season one with Kendall and the Chappaquiddick thing hanging over his head, you're like, oh, wow. Okay, this is going to go in a million different directions. He's got this thing that's going to be hanging over his head and all these different buttons. But it really just comes down to kind of the story of each episode and all those characters becoming stronger. I think it's very rare for a show to go, oh, he's an uncle, okay, he's this or whatever.

Now I'm like, man, I've got like 20 people I want to keep track of and I want to keep track of them instead of those scenes where you're like, oh, it's a meadow scene. Right. It's an engaging in a way where it doesn't insult the intelligence of the viewer. So there's not a lot of handholding

to understand the financial stuff. There's not a lot of handholdinging to understand the financial stuff. There's not a lot of hand-holding to understand some of the family history stuff. I think that it's a very funny show, and it would be, I think everybody would kind of like it. And then I think that the Kendall stuff makes it special.

I think the performance of Jeremy Strong and the adding in that level of humanity to somebody that I think most people would not often see a lot of humanity in, that James Murdoch type figure, the sort of idiot prince who thinks it's his. To bring in the addiction stuff, to bring in kind of obviously like him fighting up against like the limits of his own intelligence, but still, you know, wanting something more out of his life. And that performance, which I think is really special you think he's the best he's your favorite character Kendall oh by far I think Kendall is what makes the show really unique and special to me you know I think that that adding

that that kind of heartbreak to it at the end of the season you know like the bachelor party episode in the New Mexico episode from the first season that was fucking great like we would that would be incredible anyway but to watch him kind of go up and down over the episode from the first season. That was fucking great. Like we would, that would be incredible anyway. But to watch him kind of go up and down over the course of the first season and throughout the second season, although I think to some extent he was sidelined in the second season and they never really fully committed to Shiv.

Like I thought what they were going to do is each season would be about a different kid. So I thought they would do Kendall the first season. I thought the second season would be fully about Shiv and and shiv kind of making her play to to run the empire and then i thought the third season would be about roman and i thought that they would kind of like do it that way but it they kind of at the end of the second season brought it back around to kendall which it was uh which was interesting and is obviously like a very thrilling moment if you see if you finished the second season yet i haven't seen the finale yet. I'm saving it. Yeah.

Saving it for a special night. But I don't feel like, I feel like there's elements of it that I can kind of tell. Sure. And I think that's kind of the, it's funny how a show is like, well, hey, what's going to happen? Make something happen.

Make something, like what's happening? And then once you actually just sort of go, hey, you know what? I think this is going to be a good show. Yeah.

Like, okay, well then, now can we take our time then? Right. Can we zigzag here with Kendall? Do we, can we not have to kill off somebody? I mean, Shiv and Tom are my favorite

because Tom reminds me of so many people that I've known where you go, do I hate this guy or do I love him? Yeah. And,

you know, I know everybody loves Cousin Greg, but I just think the delivery of his lines are, are good. But Succession is weird for Kendall. If you watch too many in a row, you can get a little thrown off by his cadence where it's just,

Okay, Dad, I'm going to grab you a water. But I like that because I feel like sometimes... Did you not want a water? Okay, that's cool. You don't have to have one. I'm not going to get one either. I think sometimes the other characters in the show are in veep. They're doing that rat-a-tat machine gun everything is just an incredible burn and it's like kind of from that armando iannucci school of like i don't know if

you ever saw the thick of it that british show no but i know exactly because i was lucky enough to talk to the jonah simons yeah simons and he would talk about armando and yeah yeah and so like that that that kind of like i love the way they shoot it because on veep and i think on definitely on succession i think on veep and definitely on the thick of it it's essentially they have multiple cameras running but the actors never really know like they don't have to worry about blocking so they can just do the scene and they don't have to you know worry about coverage because they're getting it from multiple angles and And we did on the watch. We had an interview with Jason Cameron, who plays Jerry on Succession.

And she was talking about how I like her character a lot. And that dinner scene when they go to see the Pierce's at their house in Connecticut or wherever. She was like, we were just basically eating dinner and there were cameras roaming around filming us. And she was like, you never knew whether or not you were doing a scene that was going to be in the show. Okay. So did she tell you any more about the script? Because I couldn't fathom like going, all right, I'm going to write this thing that's

going in a million directions with like 12 or 14 different people. Well, that's to get your arms around. Kieran Culkin apparently barely learns his lines anymore. He just shows up as Roman. And then they're like, hey, you're on a boat. Hey, Roman's at dinner. And he's pissed off. And then they let it go.

And that's how they do the scenes. And that was kind of like how I think they did Friday Night Lights for a while too, where they were like, after they sort of established what the characters were, it was like Street and Riggins are in a room. And they eventually at the end of the scene need to decide they're going to go to the gas station or something. But we're just going to shoot it from a couple different angles and whatever happens happens so with she was saying that they basically are like all in character there is a script with a few lines that need to be said but essentially like they're like

the pierces and the roys are having dinner go and then they just shoot it and that's why it looks so good that's why that scene when i watched that scene i went back and was like okay i'm gonna watch that scene over again actually makes me feel a little bit better that there wasn't some script that was written out yeah because it i was like it's i go i and then i called an agent and i go can you get your hands on that script because i need to see what that looked like and he was like well it's no he's like it's going to be harder to find it you know know, he's like, we've got a couple, uh, Dr. Who scripts lying around. I was like, no, but that, that actually makes sense because that scene is just the instincts

on those guys though, man. I mean, you can sit there and say, oh, you know, acting or whatever. No, no, no. Like to have the oldest Roy, um, what the hell? Logan. Logan. Yeah. Not Logan, not Logan. The oldest son, Cameron from Ferris Bueller.

Oh, Alan Rock. Yeah. Connor. Connor. Connor. Right. Because I almost said Cameron and then I was like, it's not Cameron Frye.

So Connor, because he was kind of a nothing character in the first season and I didn't really, I was like, eh, whatever. You know, you weren't looking forward to his lines or his scenes and now you're like,

oh my God, the delusional entitlement from him is so much fun to watch and then to have him going up against you know a liberal family in pierce and they're battling and he has no chance in this verbal confrontation with this guy but he's never going to concede because he's a roy yeah and you're like when i'm like if you're really generationally wealthy, you don't, you don't start showing up to stuff saying, actually, I don't know what I'm talking about. Right.

Right. And that was kind of like the thing that I love the most about it. Like you're right. All these people that are this rich, I'm not talking like third car or summer house. I'm talking stuff. They lose track of cable bills in different ski lodges. Those people just don't because i've talked to

some of those people they don't there's no like oh tell me more about i want to understand more and you're like no you don't yeah and also i think that it's a show where a lot of the critical debate around it when it first came out was about the likability of the characters i'd actually hear what you think about this because this has sort of been a larger talking conversation around television, I think in the last like year or two, where it's like, well, why would I want to spend time with these people? They're just, I hate them. You know what I mean? And in some cases, I think I understand what people are saying, but you know, one of the reasons why the likability never matters to me is that it's kind of obvious why they wouldn't be likable because they have

no concept of consequences. And so they're living in a world in which nothing that they do will ever actually like change, change any, like they can't be punished for what they're doing. Even in the worst possible situations, like what happened to Kendall, his dad can just make that go away easily, easily. So what, what, what does that do to someone's psyche? And what does that do to somebody's personality? See, I love, I love that you said that you said that and and i don't i don't know how much people are interested in like the stuff i'm trying to do or whatever yeah i am that's what i know i know you are like one thing i wrote it's pretty dark and it threw a few people off they're like oh you're trying to do this stuff right and uh i was like yeah and they're

like well and i was like oh here we go like and i get it like i know what i don't know but it was very clear it was like okay well here are like two or three rules that you're not following and what were they do you mind saying one was no one i don't like any single person in this show i was like well who gives a shit right like don't how many people in reality tv do you actually like you don't watch reality tv because you like all the people you hate all those men and women that show up for a rose they you think they're pathetic and they're lying about their resume so do you think that the difference is that people watch reality to feel superior to the characters but they watch you know fictional television to feel like a connection to them

they definitely watch reality feel better about. I think that's the greatest. I don't think it's a secret. I think everybody kind of knows that. Like, okay, let's, let me watch all these people and be like, oh, these people suck too. Yeah.

You know, because I think people are harder than themselves. As much as everybody can sit there and read positive thinking and, you know, quote something like that. I think most people, it's just weird.

I think the way we're wired, we're all a lot harder on ourselves than we should be. And so reality TV makes us feel a little bit better. Yeah. so i don't know why scripted drama though would change that but that's certainly the rule that's certainly the rule like the first thing that i was ever told something i wrote long long time ago it sucked and the guy was like this is you know what the fuck like this is a bummer man because people Because people lose all day. They want to come home and win. Yeah.

And I also think because I'm very unproven in what I'm trying to do that, you know, it's like, hey, I'm going to read this. And then I can't tell this guy he's good at it. Right. I have to tell you that you don't know what you're doing. Right. And that's definitely the case. It's some of the things I'm trying to do. I'm not trying to act like I'm so good and no one's figured me out or something like that.

That'd be incredibly arrogant even for me but uh it is really true like why okay so I don't like any succession characters all right I wouldn't want to hang out with any of them but I love watching their story so who cares like what's that rule me that's my point and I think also there's like a certain um relate if even if you can't relate to the wealth or you can't relate to some of the sort of personalities there's a lot of scenarios in succession that i find very relatable you know there's a lot of uh whether it's like the way in which betrayals sort of happen or the way in which people gossip with one another or the way in wanting coke and having ketamine yeah you know like this closed loop system who among us can't can't relate to that but um i find that it gets very true to

life with the way in which it depicts certain situations even if i don't drink gold flecked vodka you know yeah but i have been in a stupid nightclub and been like is this cool are we cool now is this like are we doing the right thing and they get that right even if it's on like a much higher like price point they nail it. They nail it. What else are you watching? I just finished Mindhunter. And I really, you know, I don't know if it's just because the way it's shot, where you recognize it immediately. You're like, this is different.

But, you know, time period stuff can seem forced. This one felt perfect. Bill Tench is just right out of, like, I felt like they grabbed him from the 70s and put him in Time Machine and put him in the show. And I thought it was a really cool execution

of a neat idea. Like, hey, here's some real stuff. It's almost like an Eric Larson thing where it's, let's do, you know,

fictional history in a way. Yeah. And I thought that that that was that was pretty impressive to pull that off uh what else i did watch the living with yourself paul rudd thing oh you did i did every time i say that to somebody they're blown away that i think that's what happens with netflix stuff though is because the ease of use is there that you find people giving chances to shows that they ordinarily wouldn't be like oh i'm just gonna'm going to make time to watch this thing that's on Showtime, but on Netflix somehow it's just like, oh, all right, let's just start it.

I spent the whole time going, how are they going to land this? How are they going to land this? Because I think anybody that ever wants to get into TV or movies, it's, oh, I have this cool idea. All right, go ahead and pitch it. It's like, well, everybody loves dogs. So dog divorce court. I'm like, what?

I'm like, you know, these dogs gets divorced. It's like, well, then what happens? Like, I don't just hire more writers. We'll figure it out. That's right. You know? And when it's like, oh, you're going to do this thing where Paul wrote is cloned. Okay.

And I think they did as good of a job as, as you could have of like, oh, okay. Like I see what they did here. Yeah. And the production value of it was really good. The casting was really good. And Paul Rudd was really good in it.

I don't know that I'm sitting here going, I can't wait to see the second season. And I don't know if they're going to do a second season. I thought the way they landed, I was like, I think this is probably over. Sure. But then again,

you never know. And I was talking to somebody about this recently. It was like, you know, once money's involved or whatever. Um, but I was, uh, it was just different. Like sometimes I make myself read different books. I'm reading a science fiction book right now. What is it? It came out years ago. Wool. And I'm just making myself do something completely different from what I would normally do. Do you usually, you're, you're mostly nonfiction, right? Oh yeah. And I used to only be fiction when I was younger,

but then I was like, what am I doing? Why am I reading everybody else's stuff? Like just start learning more stuff. And be like, oh, Douglas Copeland has a new one. Yes. Yeah. All right. I'm sorry.

We're getting kicked out of the studio. Oh no. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for having me. All right. Fun podcast day. We're getting kicked out of the studio. Oh, no. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for having me. All right. Fun podcast day.

I had a lot of fun. We'll be back Friday. And I have either, you know, I'm not going to tell you what I have planned because I don't know what I have planned yet. But it's going to be good. Really good. Have a great, just incredible Wednesday. Own this Wednesday. I may start doing horrible motivational outs.

Yep. I think I am. Just decided. Look out for those coming up. you