The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Why Harden and Philly Is Still a Possibility and More NBA Offseason Story Lines With Chris Mannix. Plus Extended Life Advice.

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Russillo is joined by SI's Chris Mannix to talk NBA offseason, including why the market for Dame Lillard is currently weaker than expected, James Harden's future, why Boston hasn't gotten the Jaylen Brown extension done yet, what the Kings are up to, Scoot Henderson's summer league, and more (0:19). Then Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (25:37). Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Chris Mannix Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode, we're going to make it quick for you. Chris Mannix is going to recap some NBA storylines from Vegas, and we'll do an extended life advice. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Let's talk some hoops. He's out in Vegas from Sports Illustrated senior NBA writer,

Chris Mannix. Okay. I haven't talked to you about it and I feel like I've already talked about it too much, but just give me your perspective on the Dame situation, the market and what kind of timeline we're looking at here. I just don't think we're anywhere with this. Miami's made an offer. We know that. Portland doesn't like the offer. We know that. Portland wants to drum up some competition for Lillard, but there isn't any out there at the moment. I have not heard of one serious offer for Damian Lillard at this point from another team.

Just nothing. The landscape at this moment is pretty barren. And, you know, I was at Joe Cronin's media availability on Monday. And, you know, my biggest takeaway from that was, you know, Joe saying, if this takes months, it takes months. And that's a pretty firm indicator that there's nothing out there outside of what Miami's willing to give. And in Portland, they know whatever Miami's offer is, it's probably their lowball offer.

Because Miami knows what everybody else knows, that the market is not robust for Lillard. So Miami hasn't put all their chips in either. So I think right now, we're just at kind of an impasse with all this. That where until, you know, if and when Miami beefs up its offer, and if and when another team or teams gets into this,

that's when it could get interesting. But I don't get the sense that Portland is going to trade Lillard for whatever's on the table right now. They want something significantly better, and Joe Cronin seems willing to wait it out a while until it gets there.

How concerned are you if you're another team and you're trading for Lillard? What do you think he's capable of doing despite the contract that's still on the books here? Look, there's some players where it kind of sucks that the guys that you're more scared of, that they're more likely to get their way. There's a couple players that if I knew that they didn't want to show up to my franchise, I'd be like, I can't get into business with him because I know his track record sucks and this is exactly what he'd do to

us. Dame has never done anything like that. He doesn't have that kind of rep. It seems like he's, I mentioned this with Bill, like on Sunday where like with Durant, you almost know if you trade for him and he's unhappy. I mean, hell Brooklyn was told to fire everybody and trade him this summer. And they kind of banked on like Durant loves playing basketball. So I'm just kind of curious on kind of what you've gathered and what you think like the fear factor is for the other teams that aren't the preferred destination. I don't think there's a real fear that what Lillard's agent,

Aaron Goodwin, is putting out there is going to happen. I don't think there's, I've not heard from teams that feel like Lillard's going to get there and he's going to sulk because that's just not the evidence we've seen from Damian Lillard over these last 11 years. He's just

always been a professional and he's always been about winning. So if he gets traded to Philadelphia, I think he'd go and I think he'd play to the highest his highest level. If he gets traded to Philadelphia, I think he'd go and I think he'd play to the highest, his highest level. If he gets traded to Boston, just throwing that out there, I think he'd go and I think he'd play at the highest level. I don't think he'd be disgruntled as, as his agent has kind of described to teams. I don't think he'd be sour about it. I think he'd play. I think the bigger issue, Ryan, is that is that some of these teams don't

know if Lillard's the right fit for a couple of reasons. One, the contract. Of course, the last two years paying him in excess of $60 million per year. He's going to be 33 years old, I think, in four days. So he's getting up there in age with a lot of years and a lot of money left on that deal.

If you're a team that's acquiring him, you know you're getting a great offensive player, but what kind of defensive player are you getting? If you bring Lillard into your mix, what does he do to your defensive identity if you're Boston or if you're Philadelphia? I mean, these are questions, I think, that are more significant for teams

that are interested in Damian Lillard than any thought to him sulking know, sulking or whining or being disgruntled at all. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because there's some times where I think about this where I go, okay, first of all, this contract kind of just scares me

in general from the other team. And maybe that leads to less competition and less of an offer than you would think in comparison to some of the other guys that have been traded. But I feel like there's very little ownership of it. I don't expect Dame to go on IG Live and be like, hey, I suck on defense, so I'm part

of the problem, which is not what anybody does. But he's terrible on defense. He's terrible on defense. And so you better have something else around him to support him being the weak link. And unfortunately for Portland, the other guy they had was always another small guard. They were never really built to support him. The part of that's on Portland, but part of that's also on him. He skates from that criticism all the time because I think we're all so enamored, as we should be, with how great he is offensively. The reason I think the Boston thing is at least a good transition here is we've

seen a lot of the other extensions already get done. A lot of those extensions are reported at 260 million for the guys in the rookie extensions, but that's what the Rose rule, you know, a lot of the baseline stuff's like 216 million. But with Jalen Brown here, um, what's the holdup? Why hasn't this been done? I think there's, you know, when I talk to people in Boston,

it's always optimism. It's always like, it's going to get done. It's going to get done. It's going to get done. And I believe that because the Celtics don't want to go into next season without Jalen Brown

locked in long-term. And in the history of these contracts, nobody turns them down. So they eventually get cobbled together. So I'm of the belief that whether it takes a few more days or a few more weeks, Jalen Brown is going to get signed to something close to that Super Mac extension. But these contractual terms, there's so many little things you can negotiate over, incentives you can

negotiate over, coming in just a little under the, the, the super max full number that you can get. And the way the CBA, you know, I mean, you think about it, like, what was it like eight days ago when all these teams got the official version of the collective bargaining agreement,

they got the, the full 796 pages or whatever amount it was eight, 10 days ago. Yeah. It's still kind of being digested and think teams are still trying to figure out what works best financially under these rules. So I think, you know, whether it's with Jalen's agent and the Celtics,

I think they're going to go back and forth for a few more days and then they'll finally come to some kind of agreement. I'm not at all, you know, I don't have any questions really that this deal with Jalen Brown is going to get done. I'm more interested, though, Ryan, to keep it on Boston. I think the Celtics should do whatever it takes to get Damian Lillard.

I'm of that belief. I've just seen the last couple of years in the playoffs where you've had Jason Tatum, for whatever reason, the finals, he was exhausted. Game seven against Miami. He was injured, but they've just been kind of missing that reliable guy to get them a bucket. I know that Lillard would cost them a lot defensively. They, but I think they're already kind of throwing out their defensive versatility with Chris S Porzingis there.

They got to change things up regardless with him in the rotation. I'm just, I wouldn't trade Jalen Brown. But if you can get Damian Lillard for some other package, including Derek White and Rob Williams plus draft picks, I'd do it. I think the window's here. I think it's wide open right now. He strikes me

as the kind of guy they need to get over the top. They've been missing that type of guy the last couple of years. Is it crazy to think that once we get past Brown and it's Derek White and Rob Williams and Picks that I like Tyler Hero and Miami's offer for the first time in a week? Because I, you know, Hero in a way

has become dismissed completely as an asset. It's crazy. Imagine Ryan if he had played in the postseason and helped Miami get to the finals. We wouldn't be having this conversation right now. It's largely because Hero was absent, Miami did what they did, and everybody has stopped

remembering how good an offensive player Tyler Hero is and is only focusing on his defensive inabilities and that contract. Although it was weird for them to go on that kind of run and then it was even brought up like, are they actually better because they're not worried about him defensively?

I don't know that I buy that just because I didn't like their offense and knowing that he's watching all the games and you're like, hey, there's going to be a couple games where his offense would have been enough. I don't, first of all, not enough to win an NBA championship because I just feel like finally the talent gap

caught up to Miami. But, you know, the Hero thing on its own, I don't like that being the only offer. But if the Clippers were only offering Norman Powell, I'd be like, you have to do better than Norman Powell. And certainly if it was some Boston thing where... And clearly, they're probably a third or fourth team in whatever this is. So Hero may not even be the main piece back, but then it's like, okay, what does Hero get you? And the game I always like playing too is like, okay, if you're a Heat fan, like if you think Hero is a better starting point than Maxie in Philadelphia, would you be upset if you got Maxie for Hero straight up? And I don't think you would be. Some people may push

back on them. Some people may today sit there and say they like hero better than Maxie, but I think I'd rather have Maxie. I would too. I'd rather have Maxie. And I think if the Sixers got in it with Maxie and look, Philadelphia's biggest problem is their draft capital is just not there. They've got what one pick of their own. I think they can trade. They're trying to get more capital in a James Harden deal. But if the Sixers can find a way to deal Harden to the Clippers and get one or more draft picks back, I wouldn't

hesitate, if I was them, to package Tyrese Maxey and multiple picks to get Lillard. Because I think they're in a more immediate situation than Boston is. I mean, their window's, what, three years with Joel Embiid? I'm not convinced Embiid's going to age all that gracefully

because his body... I mean, the guy plays through as much pain as anybody in the league right now. I'm not convinced that window is going to be much longer than three years. So if I had a chance to get Lillard for Maxey and draft capital, I'd do that and add him to that rotation. Okay, so what does this mean for Harden

right now? Has this cooled? Has the emotion cooled from him being upset about what the extension was? Could this be reworked with Philadelphia? I think as it currently stands, Philadelphia's inclination

is to bring Harden back because just like with Portland, they don't like the offers that are out there. And really, again, it's offer singular. As far as I know, there has not been a second substantive offer for James Harden, other than what the Clippers are putting on the table. And the Clippers, just like Miami,

they're kind of keeping their powder dry here a little bit. They know it is a one-team race at the moment. They know they're the only ones that are really in this. So they're not offering Terrence Mann, as far as I know. They're not offering much, if anything, in the way of draft capital, as far as I know. And that's not enough. You can't, if you're Philadelphia,

look at Joel Embiid and say, we just traded James Harden for Marcus Morris and expiring contract X. You can't do that. Not when Embiid, I think, is perfectly willing to go into next season and deal with whatever distraction may be out there to have James Hart on the team. And is there any player in the NBA more equipped to go into a season with a

distraction and Joel Embiid? I mean, I thought he handled the Ben Simmons stuff as well as any player could possibly have handled it. I think Joel Embiid would be fine. I mean, whether or not Harden sulks his way through the first

couple of months, I don't know. That remains to be seen. But I don't think you can go to Joel Embiid and say, all right, here's our roster and then this is a gap year, which I've heard a lot about, and we're going to use our cap space next summer to go and get a guy.

And don't worry, Tyrese Maxey's going to take a big step forward. That's a big risk to take with a player at this stage of his career like Embiid. So I think right now, if this is it, if this is the best that's going to be on the table for Philadelphia, I think it's more likely we see Harden back in uniform. I do think, though, the Clippers, I think at some point they'll up their offer. Like the Clippers, they're not quite in that situation they were a few years ago where they had to have Paul George to get Kawhi Leonard,

and they were willing to do everything it took to get Paul George, and Oklahoma City is still reaping the rewards from that deal. But they're in a tough spot. They know that their window is one or two years. They know they need a playmaker. James Harden wants to be there. It's not a huge financial risk to take because of the one year left in his contract.

I think you'll see the Clippers in the coming weeks and months beef up their offer to get a deal done. It's a really good point on Embiid being conditioned to deal with this stuff, but based on Harden's track record, you'd go, okay, what's he going to look like on one year left? Would he be willing to mail it in with Philadelphia knowing that Embiid is trying for something else and that everybody else on that roster is thinking, we're not that far away, right? We're not that far.

It's not impossible to think that we could be in the Eastern Conference Finals if everybody's as good as they were last year. I don't think that's a crazy statement at all. And maybe you'd look at Harden and say, okay, well, wait a minute. Houston, they weren't going to be very good. And that's why he did what he did. And then with Brooklyn, he was really frustrated with the Kyrie thing, which I would agree with him on and understand. But the track record is really bad. And that's why I think the offer for him should be bad. Because you go, okay, so wait, what if he finally... And I think he wants to go to LA because he figures Balmer's the best chance of him getting the contract.

That's why he opts in, gives him more opportunities as opposed to just being a straight free agent. So if I'm the Clippers, I'm going, well, wait a minute. I got a deal for you, but I'm not in a hurry to be handing out a long-term extension to your number and move on a ton of really good assets on top of everything else. When in a year you could do what you've already done to other places. So, and then one of the last pieces that I'm glad you brought up, and we've learned this previous off seasons here.

If Daryl and the front office go to MB being like, Hey, this is a gap year, but we promise we'll do this next year. That's a promise you can't really make. One is cap space almost means nothing. You could say where you could use it to trade for somebody and just absorb them with a cap space, but that's not a great player if he's just going into cap space. And the free agent class of next year, even if you're projecting out

what you think it would be now, it's going to change and it's not going to be nearly as impactful. It doesn't mean that that person's going to just choose you. So they're going to have to figure something else out beyond the gap year. I think we're in agreement on that one. I agree. Yeah. Look, it's a good point. The Clippers, I'd add to that, you know, Harden's got to look at the Clippers thinking like

many people thinking that they're going to open that new building in what, 2024. like many people are thinking, that they're going to open that new building in 2024. And they're not looking to go into that building with Terrence Mann as a centerpiece of that team. They're looking to go into that building with as many stars as possible. That's going to be the greatest building of all time. And they're going to want to go into it with a splash. That's why we might see an extension for Paul George or Kawhi Leonard or the guys there because they want to make sure all those guys are there when that building opens. And Ballmer is one of the few owners that will spend. But for Harden, I think what Philly can bank on is Harden's desire for self-preservation

to get that contract. Harden, he goes into next year and he lays an egg like he did in Houston, or he waves the white flag like he did in Brooklyn. Nobody's going to sign him, not just to a big contract. Nobody's going to sign him period. Because if you do that over and over again, and you go into next off season at 35 years old, why would anyone trust you with anything beyond like a minimum salary or, or maybe some kind of biannual exception?

Like, why would you do that? Why would you put yourself in that position? So I think Harden's desire to be desired, to be sought after in free agency in the summer 2024 will make him valuable to the sixers next season i think you can count on him playing hard and being in shape and being as good a teammate as he can possibly be if for no other reason than if he doesn't, his career could end next season. Well, end in the sense of the stature that he's at now. I mean, but 35.

Well, he's not going to retire in a year. No, it's a little bit of hyperbole. I just wanted to make sure. If Harden does his thing and acts like Houston Harden or Brooklyn Harden, who's out there give, like, there's no money anyway.

Like if you, if you're a winning team, you've already paid her paying two stars, big money. You're not going to pay James Harden, big money. Like, what are you looking at?

You're going to go from $35 million to like five. I mean, I don't, maybe 10, maybe the mid-level exception somewhere. I just, at his age. And, and while he's still a great offensive player,

continued to decline defensively. This is his last chance to make any kind of market for himself in free agency. Sacramento, they cleared the decks, they made some moves on draft night, and you were like, wait, are they going to get frisky here? And now looking at what Golden State did, it feels like everybody was kind of aligned on the same page.

And then that probably is a hint at maybe what happens with Clay, you know, after this year that they got off the pool money. Maybe there's a play out there, whether it's Chris Paul's contract this year. You know what I mean? Like they've allowed themselves some options, but when it was happening, like, wait, is Sacramento going to go for Draymond or is this something that's just floated out there

so that they feel like they can get every last dollar from Golden State? But what Sacramento ended up doing was kind of just taking care of their own business, making sure everything's aligned, at least timeline-wise, extending, redoing some deals here. So what's the sense that you've got in Vegas, like Sacramento,

who's a really good regular season team, maybe ahead of schedule a little bit, liking their core that much to just say, we're locked back in and let's go back and run it? Yeah, I didn't get the sense talking to people in and around that organization that the trade that opened up all that room was about anything externally. I think it was about realizing that Reshawn Holmes wasn't working out there and getting his contract

off the books. It was obviously about creating some flexibility to give DeMontis Sabonis some more money. They're just a big believer in what they're doing internally. They believe that internal growth next year is going to make them a better team. doing internally. They believe that internal growth next year is going to make them a better team. And there's

reasons to believe that. It is the Sacramento Summer League, but man, Keegan Murray looked great in that brief period. They look at him and they see a potential franchise player. They believe he's as good

as anyone they have on their roster, including De'Aaron Fox, including DeMondis Simones. they believe he's as good as anyone they have on their roster, including De'Aaron Fox, including DeMondis they believe he's that next star for their team. So if he takes a jump, that makes an already really good team better next year. And they're looking at all their young pieces they've got kind of floating

around, including Fox, and they think these guys are going to take another step forward. Another year in Mike Brown's system, playing a little bit better these guys are going to take another step forward. Another year in Mike Brown's system, you know, playing a little bit better defense, maybe they'll take another step forward. It is, you know, last year was the honeymoon year. They end the playoff drought. They get to the postseason. It's not that big a deal.

They get beaten the first round by a team as experienced as Golden State. This year, there's going to be pressure to not just get to the playoffs, but win a series, maybe win two series, advance deep. But when you talk to Kings officials, they believe that their internal improvement is going to surprise people, that their young guys are ready to take another step to get to another level.

All right, speaking of franchise players, you were in the building for Weminyama. I imagine Scoot as well for his brief appearance. Can I join you and Bill's Scoot club? Can I be? We're actually catching way more shit. People are really pissed about that. I think Bill's saying after one summer league game,

I think he's going to be a star is more than just saying, hey, I think he's going to be good. And I actually did look at some of the reaction to it. People were like, Oh, you guys are so brave. So we're catching like a ton of shit for it, which I know is not the most surprising thing. I'll happily jump on that bandwagon with you. Like I'll, I'll take, I'll take that shit with you. Like, I mean, look, I spent a lot of time talking to executives about Scoot versus Brandon Miller, which is always going to be the debate for the next couple of years. Charlotte, did they draft for need?

Do they really believe that Brandon Miller was the best player on the board? And a couple of executives I've talked to about Scoot versus Brandon Miller have said to me, Scoot Miller, how about Scoot win Manama? Will that debate pick up in the next couple of years? There's just it's look it's more than just one summer league game like these executives got a good look at scoot playing for the ignite all year long uh there's a lot of faith that scoot is not just going to be good but be a star and i'm a believer in that i don't we only saw like 21 minutes with

him in that first summer league game but you already already saw flashes of a guy that can do a little bit of everything. And if his shot comes along, and I don't see why you wouldn't believe it wouldn't. If his shot becomes reliable over the next couple of years, this guy is so dynamic. He's got that Russell Westbrook athleticism, a little bit of that Chris Paul flavor to his game,

a little bit of that craftiness that we see in some big-time point guards. I don't think it's a stretch to say he's going to be a star. To bring it back to Damian Lillard, one of the reasons to move Lillard now instead of bringing him back for training camp and first half

of the season, you want to hand the keys to this kid. You want to let him be your primary playmaker, your primary ball handler, and grow that way. I'm sold on Scoot Henderson. I'm all in on Scoot Henderson as well. I think he's going to be a great player. That's another thing to factor into Miami with it, where it just feels like, even though, again, I've said it a million times, I just think the package is way too low. Whether it's

scaring off a few teams the lack of competition miami is the first team that would go we don't care about the four years we'll figure it out give us a two-year window with butler bam's gonna be around for a long time like with them you know i think there's some other teams you're like you sure you want to be able to do this and again i think the answer is probably yes for anybody that feels like, who cares? Like, we're getting this kind of talent in. Other guys get hurt that are younger, too, that we miss a year on. So maybe one of the four years doesn't work out.

But the scoop part of it of maybe the front office and ownership just going, we need to give the keys to this guy. I wouldn't want to give away a player like Dane just because I'm in a hurry to make sure this new draft pick is allowed to do whatever he wants to do. But there's just so many things lining up in Miami's favor that I think we've seen this story before that the player is ultimately going to end up getting his way. Anything else? Well, Wemba Nyama was, I don't know. You know what worries me? Two things worry me a little bit about Wemba Nyama. He's got to stop. You know what worries me?

Two things worry me a little bit about Wemba Nyama. He's got to stop. You can't dribble drive as much as he does in the NBA. That ball takes four seconds to get from his hand to the floor, and good defenders are going to be able to pick him apart. When I watch him those first couple of games, every time there's a pileup around the rim, I'm just terrified that someone's going to fall into one of his spider legs. I have that kind of awful Kevin

Durant, you know, guys fall into his legs, you know, pit in my stomach when I watch Web and Yama. I just, I don't know what you can do about that. The guy's not going to his body type's his body type, but you know, there were a couple of times when there were two or three bodies on the floor

and Web and Yama's in the middle of it. And I'm kind of cringing going, is he going to be okay when that happens? Everybody's focused on his feet. Will that become a problem later in his career? As we've seen with other big men. I'm more worried about those knees, man. He can test shots.

He's a great shot blocker, great defender already. There's a lot of leg room there to get barreled into in the NBA. Length, for the first time ever, perhaps a negative with an NBA player. Thanks, man. Enjoy the rest of the week, all right?

You got it, man. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine.

And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice is brought to you by Modelo. Let's face it face it life can be hard but modelo believes that you are fighters and you deserve a beer that's brewed for those with a fighting spirit you deserve modelo the mark of a fighter a rich mexican lager made with premium hops for crisp and refreshing taste the perfect reward to celebrate perseverance no matter what life throws your way life Life advice. Life advice. RR at gmail.com. Don't forget Friday

feedback submissions. Very good. A bunch of those. Friday feedback. RR at gmail.com. Very similar branding wise. We're going to do a longer life advice because I ended up not doing an open and basically halfway through writing it out. I was like, I'm not even sure this is that good.

So we'll just do some extra life advices here. All right, let's start with a hot one. This one is called, New hire, I managed, saw me doing coke. All right. Hello, Saruti, Kyle, Ryanyan muddled stats uh whatever 27 6 3 195 bench eight times eight reps of 245 i know it's just okay i know that's really good man um but uh only lift two or three times a week last year or so because for now i'd rather spend more mornings at pilates

studio with a 10 to 1 ratio until I lock down a fit girl with wealthy parents. Oh, okay. Who does this guy? Yeah, this guy. Well, I don't think he says that, but he has some goals. He knows what he wants. For context, I live in New York City and work at a hedge fund. Okay. Head count. We'll try to leave out some more details that he includes in here just to save him a bit. Smaller fund, but not so small that we wouldn't care about rumors flying about. Earlier this year, I started managing a team of nine who had just three new hires back in June. It's a Friday night. I was out a bit at a raunchy

club in Brooklyn. Nothing too crazy. Just weird vibes and dancers in cages and lots of drugs. A group of friends, none of them who I work with. A girl I'm casually seeing works in fashion. It sounds like Bateman over here. Although that's Gosling's line in the Big Short.

It's like, these aren't my friends. I hang out with fashion people. Alright, so I can usually be confident I won't run into anybody when I go out with her and her friends. This guy sounds kind of nice. Sounds like he's got it pretty wired. It's around 2am. Wasn't drinking much. Was doing a lot of coke.

Not something I usually like to do. TBH. Because I have a pretty addictive personality. But as long as I space it out a month or so apart and get to see it tested, it will partake. All right. Not quite sure. All right. Been at the same spot for two hours.

I get up to use the restroom. It was a bit hazy, but on the way back out, 20 feet away from our spot with a relatively clear view, I see a girl standing with two friends waving at me. And I immediately see that one of the new hires who joined this summer. All right. I go over and say hello. I was in excited coke out mode for the first 15 seconds until I realized the situation and my anxiety settled myself down for another 15 seconds or just, hey, hope you're having a good night. I'll see you on Monday. I get back to our table and was panicked for the rest of the night. Based on her tone and how she spoke, she had definitely seen me and knew I was there, but tried to indicate that she just noticed me walking by. So now it's morning and my direct report at the very least saw me in a

very coked up state and the people I'm doing coke with and most likely saw me directly for a few hours. Additional context, I need to optimize this situation solely for making sure I keep my job until January. Our total compensation heavily is tied to bonuses and I'll have my normal one plus the bonus from my recent promotion coming in, which should be about $400,000. After that, it literally does not matter because I'm planning to dip and start an unrelated company of my own. The extra cash will help me live comfortably while I'm bootstrapping this for a few years. Secondary goal would be keep some relationships rep in case things go south and I want to return here three, four years down the road, but less important since

I don't think I'd want to deal with this level of stress for a company that's not mine after 30. All right. Extra context. And I know this is normal in some areas of the finance industry, but not at all at mine. So he's not really from one of the cozier hedge funds, I think is what he's telling us here. Much nerdier tech company like Vibe. If I got to someone in HR, might get drug tested. Not sure they're allowed to do that. Who knows? I need advice on how to

proceed and handle the situation. Thus far, I see four potential options. Okay. Option one, ignore situation. Probably has decently high success rate, but boring. But it's boring? So you just said you wanted it. All right. Okay. Can't wait for two, three, and four. But boring. And the girl I ran into is both a bit of a nerd and seems friendly with a lot of the other hires across departments. So I feel like this is an exciting story for her to tell, which would quickly spread. I'm not worried about her going to HR or anything like that. More just so gossip getting around and eventually leading to someone who's an ass or has a bone to pick. Option two, take control of the narrative and gaslight. I think this is the best option. We have a morning standup with my small team. So Monday,

I go into it and mention how I ran into her, talking about how the girl I'm seeing ran into some of our other college friends and they dragged us there, how they got up to some unseemly activities that we'd never do. So we dipped out pretty soon after. This could work. Maybe she was drunk and memory wasn't 100% or she wasn't there that long. If she saw me, we might still work as she might realize it's not something to talk about without saying anything directly. Option three. Talk to her early Monday and hint that I'll be on her side as long as this doesn't come up to absolutely anyone.

That's from like a training video. Come on. We've had to watch like what not to do. Come on. Right. Threaten her. Couldn't cross it out. It's basically something that would screw me if it got spread and does not benefit her at all and if anything would have bad optics for her so this would be telling her this we have about a 50 cut rate after the first year this causes a lot of anxiety with new hires so i think basically saying

that as long as you remain baseline competent she is one of the better new hires i've seen i won't let you go next year dude don't even fucking this this is the worst that what's for if four is murder we'll put this one behind it but um basically saying as long as you remain baseline competent she is one of the better new hires i've seen i won't let you go next year which go a long way in terms of making sure gossip doesn't spread could also generally hint at being able to get her a senior level promo sooner than normal. I honestly don't have that kind of influence, but would be gone before it mattered.

Oh my God. So promise her a promotion that you can't even give her and won't be around to help. Let's just rule out option three. There's no way four is worse than three. Option four. This one's kind of nuts, but has some potential. So I'm not going to make you turn your head and check me out but i'm tall fit have a good face and hairline hasn't betrayed

me tough to relate to i know well now you're just being an asshole yeah yeah but i mean jesus this girl speaking generalist this girl speaking generously is a four i've also everyone's gonna hate this guy so yeah uh losing the crowd right the crowd is against you i've also noticed her checking me out on numerous occasions in the office i genuinely think if monday i strike a guy straight quickly and make it seem very casual tell her she should kick it with me and my friends this weekend and hit it a small amount of interest. I could lead her on for a few months,

then see her casually for a few months, then get to January and dip. Dude, your approval rating is going to be, it's going to be the lowest of an email we've read in a long time. This one has the biggest downside, but I'm so confident it would work out. Maybe I should, but I really don't feel that bad about this one. I think one, two, or three or some combination of these makes sense. The others out there, but I thought I'd include it just in case you think it has potential and know that I'm open to creative options.

Where do we start with this one? I guess we start with the advice part of it. There's a really good chance that, you know, whenever, like a lot of times you need to think about how much other people aren't thinking about you. That's a pretty good rule of thumb for how much you're in your own head. And most people, it's not getting caught doing coke in front of a new hire. But in life, in general, the number of times that you will spend time thinking that everybody else is thinking about you, the ratio of that is so off because you're only thinking about you. You're not thinking about the 10 other people and all the stuff that takes up their day

and is a priority. So yes, of course, there's a chance here you're saying she blatantly saw you or did she see the group doing it? Were you guys out in the open? I mean, obviously, some places in New York go pretty hard. it were you guys out in the open i mean obviously some places in new york go pretty hard um so you know let's just give you the benefit of the doubt maybe it's the wrong phrasing here but just if if we go with you and agree that she did probably see you i don't know i mean she was there too right so that's the other thing you have to remember if it's a really weird kind of spot

and you're young and you're in this world, it might not be the most shocking thing she's ever seen. Right? So you've thought about this so much that you're probably wasting your time thinking about it this much. I mean, clearly option one is the one that makes the most sense.

Just ignore it. I know you said it was boring, right? Go ahead, Kyle. I would. Number one is easy, easily ignore it. I know you said it was boring, right? Go ahead, Kyle. I would. Number one is easy, easily the option. I mean, the first thing is you're off the clock. It wasn't like, you know, she walked into your office like Michael Scott with his pants off and like, you got to be like, oh, we've got to discuss this now. Right. It's like he was he was out and about like this is this really should never come up anyway. And like you said, he knows it's not

going to be HR, but I don't think it's a good move for a new person to start spreading shit around you know to anybody that matters at least i think i think the new person would know that like it's not it's not the best idea to show up and be like did you see what i saw fucking johnny doing yesterday oh my god like you're gonna be so out and so many circles above like the new higher circle so i don't think that would happen and uh number four if you were going to do option four i would i propose for a light like maybe like hang out but don't actually like no casual seeing her for whatever you just be like oh he's like he's like a guy at the company that would go you know out to a bar with me and not just see me out randomly if you were like you

know i would just want to i would like make some sort of like platonic relationship with this person if you're into that. But like, yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't like go all out with, you know, the stage two and stage three of option four. But like, I don't think there's anything wrong with, you know, going out to going out to a bar post work. And, you know, maybe you want to give her some some of the eyes, you know, give her like a nice smile with long eyes. And that's it. You know, she's just like, oh, he's a he he's a, he's a, he's a, he's kind of a good friend. I feel like he's on my side. Maybe I could talk to him about stuff. And also he's cute. And he looked at me that one time, but like, you could, you could edit there. There doesn't have to be a second and third face to part four. If you were just like, I want to create some sort

of relationship, like some sort of memory with this person besides, you know, seeing me at work and then seeing me coming out of the bathroom, you know, wiping my nose that one time. So I don't think there's anything wrong with four, but I think one should be, one should be the top, the top part of your plan. And if you wanted to go for, I'd go for light. Yeah, I'm with, I'm with you, Ryan. I think option one is always right on option. It's like, just do nothing. Likely, you're in your own head. But I do think, be nice to her around the office. That's just an easy one to do. If you're not nice to her now, don't make it awkward

where you've never talked to her before in your life and now all of a sudden, like, yo, let's be buddies because then that's super weird. Don't do that. But have a casual relationship with your friend. She's good. She's one of the better people. I don't know. Make her feel special. Take her like you're being a little bit like just make,

you know, just be awkwardly friendly, but hey, just kind of take somebody under your wing kind of thing. And I don't think she's going to really rat on you.

So the option one to me is always the right option. Just kind of don't do anything and it'll probably I don't know. But I, you know, I don't,

I don't involve in a love affair for a couple months because you're paranoid. Yeah, and again, it's not anything I have any experience with and I didn't even realize when I was still in my

college town, like no one ever did coke in college. They just didn't. No, no, it was like it was just an era thing. It still was uncool and then all of a sudden like some younger dudes were doing it and then got older guys were like hey what's going on here you know and then like i was still as has been covered still in town bartending then i i was like bad at figuring it out

and like another bartender would be like oh that guy's fucking out of his mind right now and i'd be like i don't know i just seem super alert and interested in everything i was saying they'd be like no no no so there's a good chance it gets locked in yeah yeah right there's a good chance you had like a weird freak out because the drugs that you're on and it's kind of lingering i mean the same thing can happen when you drink too much and then you're like replaying stuff and you're like dude none of this shit even like what are you doing like none of it matters it doesn't nothing like there's not anything that you you don't have to keep replaying it. So the whole let's address the crowd option of number two, being like, hey, so gang, what's going on? Crazy, crazy.

Just want to start, you know, glad the team is here, but let's, you know, the minutes, if we can get the minutes updated here, just ran into so-and-so, and boy, was that a weird night, huh? You know, because then you're going to have to, like, figure out how you want to cover your tracks in this weird ass story that isn't really true, but sort of true. You're probably going to get some of it wrong. And then if somebody's really smart, they'll know they're like, why is this guy bringing this up? And I don't know if the group,

there's anyone seasoned enough in that group. When you're younger, you're maybe not as experienced with certain things. Like I wouldn't have figured it out in my 20s later on i would have gone like that guy just gave a speech because he's had the fucking mental weirds for a week about something that happened all right so if your team is really young maybe you can pull it off i think that's pointless i think number three is arguably like I know people probably hate four more than three. I think three, hinting at a promotion, although you're fit for middle management, hinting for things that you she could start telling people. And clearly you care about your rep. And this world is actually, it can be kind of a smaller world and you're all in the same city. And if you want to stay in this industry, I don't think you want to create an enemy. Somebody saying that you may or may not have gotten after it one night at some weird club in Brooklyn is not nearly as bad as you saying,

hey, keep it quiet. I can help you with a promotion. And then you never get it for her and you leave. So that's fucked. Four on the platonic thing, I think Kyle is right. You're like, hey, do you want to come hang out, like friend it up? Who knows? Maybe you'll even like her. Clearly, she's not a rich fitness instructor, so that's not something you're going to have to worry about getting attached to emotionally, apparently. But yeah, get her in the mix.

Because again, do not forget the fact, like if I'm you, I'm telling myself, hey, she was at this place too. She was at the spot as well. So this isn't like I was leaving church and a bag fell out. All right? All right. So option one of ignoring it, you're thinking about it way more than anybody else is. And even though you said it's a bit on the nerdier side,

you could eventually just deny it too if somebody ever said anything to you about it because that's the other part. So if you admit to her something that you could probably deny and say, no, that was other people I was with. That's not even close to being true. Then it's kind of over if it were to even come up. But the really good, like the best odds are is that this is never going to come

up again. It's never going to come up again. So you going through all these hoops, although less boring, they all are pretty stupid, to be honest with you. The last thing I would say about option four is that like people don't really talk shit about like the people that they like and that are in the mix like I feel like you know higher ups you know usually somebody's got a gripe with like a higher up or something uh that you know isn't seen as much and maybe you know maybe just is a little a little harsher a little stricter a little colder personally you know with underlings and like that's when I think people want to talk about that like actually you be like, actually, you know what? It's funny you said that, actually, about this guy. I saw he was at this place and he was definitely on coke or something. So if you're like, that's the last thing I'll say about Forrest. If you're in the mix at all, just a guy that they

like, maybe has said a funny joke one time, you had a nice happy hour, shared some cauliflower wings at some cool place in Brooklyn, maybe that just might put you past the threshold of being somebody that would get gossip like that. Usually like, you know, the hard ass asshole managers, middle managers, I think, are the ones that people bond over telling stories about. So if you could just get yourself out of that, which is, you know, nothing, not even one step past platonic. I think that would that would definitely sure up you able to be able to just never talk about this anyways. And nobody else would talk about it because gossip is a real thing. But I think it just matters who you are to the people that are gossiping. I'm just trying to think like, what would be worse? Pretending to date somebody for six months

because you want to recruit them as an ally to insulate yourself from potential work blowback or going, Hey, if you don't gossip about me, which you're then admitting straight up to her, which at this point you could still deny it. But then when you admit it to her, then there's a layer that you'd have to worry about uh and then saying like you know you can keep your nose clean although that's probably not the best uh that's worse best analogy right now right right um you know that's definitely worse what are you sitting on her desk like while you're saying it like that's i've had to click through so many training you know sensitivity trainings every year about just not doing that exact thing. I don't think

that's the move. Okay. All right. How about this one? We've got a sauna off. Sauna off. Ready? Okay. NBA comp. It's two emails. I'll read them back to back. Matisse Thibel, without the defense,

literally cannot dribble a basketball. Hey, Ryan, 5'9", 165. Go to the gym five times a week, normally before work. The end of my workout normally ends in the 15-minute sauna session. During this time, I like to tune out, no phone, no headphones. Over the last couple weeks, I've noticed one particular guy who tends to go to the gym at the same time as me normally, who I've encountered in the sauna a few times. In the sauna, he blasts music from his phone.

No headphones. Rap music. Normally 50 Cent, 3-6 Mafia, etc. Which I normally would have no problem with. Kyle's like, which gym is this? I want to join next week. I'd have no problem with when listening on my own. To add to it, he would then rap the lyrics and I've even seen him throw in a basketball shooting

motion if the lyrics call for it. At this point, i think i should mention he is built and looks like idris elba with tribal tattoos uh in no way am i all caps ever considering saying something to this guy i just want to know if everyone else in the gym sauna who's encountered this is thinking the same as me is that this is a that this is preposterous behavior i'm sure i can help myself out by putting in headphones, but honestly, I just enjoy that time not looking at my phone when I have desk job that has me looking at screens

the rest of the day. Just want to know your thoughts and if you've encountered anything like this. Okay, so that's one sauna dilemma. Let's compare it to this one. The title of this one, Kyle, is Praying in the Sauna. So guys, been listening for over a year. Love the pod. 24, 6'3", 200 pounds.

Basketball styles, Boris DL, mixed with some ISO Joe. Bigger post guy. Okay, got it. Whenever I'm in the sauna, I pray. It is a bit weird, but I find it an easy and non-offensive way to pass the time. Today, I whipped out the sign of the cross

and someone in the sauna said, are you fucking praying? I responded, quote, yes, just trying to kill some time. And he said, quote, that's fucking weird and offensive. I got up and left without saying anything more. Lots of cussing out of this guy.

I got up and left without saying anything more. Lots of cussing out of this guy. I got up and left without saying anything more. Lots of cussing out of this guy. I guess he was saying after he was walking away. My question is, is it really that offensive? Why would he care if I was not praying out loud? It's just a sign of the cross. Curious what you guys have to say. Love all of you.

It would have been easier if that guy wasn't a Catholic, right? Because most of the non-Catholics just kind of get right into it they don't have to do any like uh foreplay before the parade i don't know i don't know i'm not uh i'm not super religious so me neither i don't know i look i which one's worse uh i to tell you, I think the music on a speaker in a sauna, then also rapping. At that point, the basketball motions aren't even surprising at that point because this guy's willing to do anything. My guess is this is his gym. The gym is a big part of his day. He likes being the gym guy. I bet you if you watch him on the floor, he says hi to a lot of people. guy. I bet you if you watch him on the floor, he says hi to a lot of people. And I've seen that over the course of my years that the gym is, for some people, it's the place where they're important because they're jacked and they're huge. And it's the best part of their day because they're the gym big guy. And normally those guys are really friendly, which is kind

of crazy because you would think it'd be the opposite. But my experience has been that a lot of times, the biggest, most jacked guy, because he's just alphing the fuck out of the rest of us, that he's the happiest he's going to be all day because it's his domain. It is my gym. And then that's what you could possibly be having here. Like, I think I'd probably experience it once and then not say anything. Or it could be a like, Whoa, dude, you really,

what am I in the wrong sauna? You know, something like that. Playful. Yeah. I know the second time I would, I would, I don't care.

I would be like, are you, are you serious? It's like, dude, you know, I would, I don't care. I would be like, are you, are you serious? Like, dude, you know, now the praying thing, you ran into somebody else who either takes religion really seriously or despises it for them to be that offended for you to silently pray and then do the sign of the cross. Uh, sure sure i think a lot of us listening to be like maybe that's a little weird but if you're not doing anything if you're not you're not making any noise you're not distracting like that's supposed to be a quiet place that's the whole

point of the sauna decompress hang as long as you can get get a little sweat going. I would obviously do it after you lift it. But that's supposed to be, you don't go into those places, like 99% of the time when you walk into a sauna with other people that are in there, nobody wants to talk to anybody. Right. A couple grunts, that's it. I would, I'd say in this case, like the praying,

if I'm thinking of me as the other person, the praying, it wouldn't bother me anyway. Even though I'm not very religious, for the most part, it's like, all right, man, if that makes you feel cool, whatever. I don't mean that in a critical way. Just, all right, if that's something that you're into and makes you feel better, great. To a point of some of the options that are out there. But I don't even think it's close. I don't even think it's close. And I think the other guy for going so hard at the dude praying is actually a little out of line. Unless that person is by the book.

Just by the book of separation of church and sauna. Well, mic drop. Yeah. I think it's easy. It's easily the guy who's ruining it for everyone else with the, you know, with the, with the noise and, you know, we've been weird motions. I was thinking steam room cause I'm a steam room guy, but like, you know, cause the steam room, you know, this is pretty cloudy. You can barely even see what's going on there. But yeah, I forgot sauna is like, uh it's like hd vision compared to a steam room so yeah i mean especially with the guy doing like you know all the motions and stuff uh that's that's terrible and yeah i'm glad that i don't have to give life advice on what to do

about this guy if we're just picking which is worse it's definitely uh definitely the the sauna guy with great music taste i can understand being afraid of idris elba and saying i don't want to tell this guy to turn his music off right because most people would go and i just he's is he enormous or he's just is he hollywood jacked i don't know i mean that's his old normal yeah yeah i think he's i think the point of this comp is that we're talking about somebody that you may just not be willing to vocally challenge on first exchange. So more often than not, a lot of guys, then I love the guy that's just at that age, and I don't know what that number is. It might be like 64, might be 72 72 where that guy just goes hey what the fuck turn the music off like because he just doesn't even care and that guy might even try to throw

a punch too like he's just had so many things in his life where he's like i don't even care about anything anymore like i'm just going to tell you and the speaker guy is wrong here he's wrong but for the other person to get that upset about the prank thing, that's actually a stranger call-out. As reluctant as you would be with the music, the other guy to just step up and be like, are you praying? And then to say, hey, that's offensive. I think you ran into a rare co-sauna guy for him to be that willing to tell you off like that. Okay, Kyle, we got a good one for you here. Smoking as a hobby.

5'10", 170, runner, tennis player, otherwise unimpressive. Question for Kyle, I recently did a marathon and took a bit of time off from running. I started walking most evenings just to keep the legs busy, and I found this time to be the perfect opportunity to have a cigarette or two. I've never been a smoker, but I was bored and looking for a new vice. Recently gave up drinking. Okay, so it makes a little bit more sense. Two months ago was the first pack of cigs I ever purchased. My question, how many cigarettes a month makes it a bad habit? My friends have been giving me a ton of flack, but the girlfriend is mostly okay with it as long as it doesn't become a habit i've been doing

american uh i've been doing american spirits that helps or hurts my case kyle please shame accordingly and let me know what i should be smoking i'm never gonna tell anyone you should definitely get into smoking as a hobby uh but i think at this point i mean listen good for your friends that they're like you know maybe they'll start smacking them out of your hands. Like I've had friends that done that. Um, unless we're talking about how many a day, I don't think this is a habit yet. You know, I don't think this is, this is definitely like few and far between if we're talking to how many a month, I don't even know. I'd have to do, I'd have to do math, uh, to figure out like, what's more, you know, what's too's too much um so unless we're

talking about like how many a day i think we're just not even asking the right questions here so i think i think you're probably okay um like i said i'm never gonna tell anyone like you should definitely get into this uh because it's not a hobby it's definitely a lifestyle guy so um i don't know i think uh i'd say just taper off if you can he's gonna get addicted i mean let's just get to the root of this thing if you're doing it out of boredom what you're gonna do because it's what it it's what happens with the products is you're gonna go oh i'm bored and like oh the girlfriend's out of the house but you know what'd be nice right now is a cigarette you're like oh okay well i only do it out the back porch or whatever, you know? And then in two years you're going to be starting your fucking day like Don

Draper grabbing the pack before you even have your boxers on. So, you know, not everybody, but that's kind of the program here. So if you could stop, I would say stop. Now I can't believe you're a marathon runner and in your downtime of boredom,

you go for long walks. You're like, you know what? I'm going to start firing up cigarettes. You've made it this long. You made it through the weird, hey, I want to be cool outside of the parking lot in high school phase. You made it out of the having drinks with buddies in college where I had so many buddies

that would smoke when they were drunk and it was like the funniest thing ever. But then they didn't do it when they weren't drunk. But then some guys kept doing it and then they became like full-blown smokers so you've made it through the phase and you're deciding what 28 did he say uh oh he didn't have an agent here i don't know i just i don't know i doubt we're gonna get a lot of feedback saying no no this is a great idea here's why right yeah i don't know i mean is it even worse to say like i don't know pick up like cigars or something i don't know i don't mean nobody that's like more offensive to everyone else around you but uh and they take way longer right so i don't know that's probably not good advice either but i what is it about smoking that

you like could you find that in something else i guess that's what i would say. See, I think a lot of the times it's the boredom. It's the oral fixation. It's the having something in your hands. It's like somebody decides to not drink anymore, but they still want to go out. It's like they don't know what to do with their hands. Yeah, so it's a cranberry juice. It's a natural diuretic all right what else uh what else do we have we have one more here

yeah let's just do this one because it's not even a question uh the michael rubin hamptons party if you've seen the footage it looks like maybe the greatest party ever that's not like the oscars or something right uh did it look great or did it just look like everyone was there i'm not saying i'm not shitting on the party but i'm just whoa i'm just saying sounds like you have questions well i got disinvited from his vegas party so his stock has dropped with me tremendously what happened there no it was like um we got through john justremsky tate got invited and i was his plus one we were all excited about it and then it turns out we

were like invited to the red carpet and then we weren't able to we weren't going to be able to go inside and that just i mean really grinds my gears sounds like sounds like it could be weird next time you run into ruben yeah well that's what you get just so I understand you thought you were invited so Michael Ruben had this campnatic party alright we'll get to the Vegas part of it it looked like July 4th

I believe and it was you know when you saw the pictures you're like wait that guy's there you know it just keeps building and building and building and you know A bunch of dudes are there. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, Brady's there. And then you're like, wait, DiCaprio's there. And it's just Jay-Z, Beyonce. It's unbelievable. I think it'd be a fascinating podcast just for an hour of how you put that together. But some people are really good at that. Some people are really good connectors. And Ruben, if you know his story at all, none of this to me is even remotely surprising. He seems to be somebody that's really good at not only his own success, but just living in a world that's a very hard world to live in.

Or maybe people see him with all the money going, well, he doesn't need anything from me. So I don't even have to worry about this. Or if he's doing deals and all this kind of stuff. Again, I'm kind of just talking out of my ass about this whole thing. But this all seems to make a lot of sense if you know his story. But then I think just the logistics of it all, of who gets invited, how do you get the invites out? What's the reach out to a dicaprio how does that work or are you just friendly with him because of some other thing that happened and he's totally down for for coming out to a party where there's going to be a ton of

other famous people because it just seems like logistically with that many people at that level all be able to fly to the same place at the same time yes i understand because private jets and all that kind of stuff but like you think you'd get a few cancellations or whatever so then he has something in vegas for summer league and we saw the stuff from that and you couldn't get in what what's the point of the red carpet if you can't go in that's what we said and we're and then so apparently did none of you get in we didn't go because we we were just we were just making sure because we were getting like info for red carpet stuff. And we were like, oh, yeah. So we're not super interested in the red carpet.

You know, we just kind of wanted to go to the party. And the lady was like, oh, that's that's not really an option. And it's like, all right. So what are we on the clock here? We're going to like just we're going to fake. We're going to we're going to take some photos to like say we went in and then didn't and then we'll talk about it on our media you know platforms i don't know uh so i we did we did it we didn't go but i did spend a good 24 36 hours being really excited to go especially on

the heels of everything we saw from uh mr rubin in the hamptons right i guess the emailer wanted to know how we'd go about getting an invite to that and apparently we just found out an invite's not always an invite sounds like you gotta find a backdoor guy i think that's it also being way more successful and famous than any of us would that would help that would probably be uh an advantage that you would look for yeah okay life advice has been brought to you by modelo the fighting spirit means never giving up, even when the odds are against you. And it's something you can taste in every sip of Modelo. The crisp golden lager has premium hops that make it the perfect reward to get through whatever challenges you're facing. You deserve this. So hold it up high. Modelo, the mark of a fighter. Shop delivery or pickup options for Modelo near you at ordermodelo.com. Drink responsibly. Beer imported by Crown Imports, Chicago, Illinois. That's life advice. Again, remember Friday Feedback emails as well. Fridayfeedback.com. We'll do kind of a

standalone as the summer months get, or summer weeks get a little bit leaner. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Steve, as always. The Brian Russo Podcast. Bring your spot. Outro Music you