The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Why the NFL Draft Will Be Totally Different With Todd McShay, Plus: Seth Curry From the Dallas Mavericks

Episode Date: August 18, 2020

Russillo reacts to the start of the NBA playoffs, including Magic-Bucks, Celtics-76ers, Clippers-Mavericks, and more (1:32) before he is joined by ESPN's Todd McShay to discuss the uncertainty surrounding college football, the multiple reasons athletes might opt out, how the pandemic has affected NFL scouting, a potential solution for NFL teams looking to gather more information on 2021 draft prospects, and more (11:00). Then Ryen talks with Dallas Mavericks guard Seth Curry about being in the Orlando bubble, the Mavericks' playoff expectations, his basketball journey, and more (32:47). Finally Russillo answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (55:05). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

it's actually weird starting a podcast without mentioning state farm but we're going to see them back in september so there you go that was a weird run because we didn't always have those unexpected outcomes because we had no outcomes for a really long time but we've got basketball we've got playoff basketball day two of it a little later time. But we've got basketball. We've got playoff basketball. Day two of it. A little later release today because we have a good plan. Seth Curry, who we taped with prior to their game one loss against the Clippers. He joins us from the Mavs in the bubble

and Todd McShay, who has a really interesting piece out on ESPN where just the unintended, I don't even know if it's unintended, but the things that could be happening could be in play for the NFL draft. He has half of his first round that was projected that he doesn't think is going to play any games.

And then he even has some ideas on what you could possibly do to try to get this, I don't know, tape or just any kind of showcase to have these guys out there. But good luck with that. The NBA has only asked really good players to play one-on-one or two-on-two in team facility workouts and no one ever does that stuff so i don't know i don't know if it'll happen i don't know if the football mentality will kick in on that one so we got mcshay we got seth curry we'll do a little life advice this one's a little bit more light-hearted at the end we got some heavy ones not to say but i just i don't know i just don't want to

i'll go ahead and do some of those, but again, I'm just a dude with a podcast here, so if you've got real major issues, maybe I'm not the guy for you. Anyway, first thing is Orlando. Yes, not the bubble. Your Orlando magic. They beat the Milwaukee Bucks 122-110 today,

and it felt real the whole time i know that that sounds crazy and here is my position where we had the time off from basketball and then it felt like people were in a hurry to try to figure out outcomes it wouldn't make sense and that's exactly what you're going to have now is well there's no home court orlando that it's still an orlando team that was 33 and 40 i don't think they should be up double digits for an entire game on the milwaukee bucks but the bucks concerns are the same all the time and that is is yannis defended differently in a playoff game and yet look he's still at 31 and 17 and 7 today so it wasn't like he sucked. He was 3 from 7 from outside, but it's on Chris Middleton.

Middleton had 14 points. He's 4-12, and anytime you do a kind of eye roll, hey, Chris Middleton, is he really underrated? What are we actually asking? Are we asking if he's a guy that can carry a team or be a one? None of us are saying that.

Are we saying that he probably has a game that almost isn't appreciated enough and then you look at the big numbers and the three-point shooting you're like all right this is incredible but if you do look at his previous four playoff years six games six games seven games that was a seven game loss to the celtics two years ago that series is the only time middleton's really put up numbers where you're thinking, this is a guy that's going to absolutely carry this team. And I don't mean carry it, again, in the sense that he's going to be the number one go-to guy,

to be honest. But every now and then, I don't care who you are, you can't do this by yourself. And you need that second guy to be somebody you can rely on a little bit. And for three of the four playoff years that Middleton has had, it's been underwhelming. At 23 years old, whatever, it was five years ago. It's not a big deal. 16 a game, shot it poorly for three from him. And then 15 a game, three years ago in the playoffs. I'm trying to remember who they lost to. They lost to the Raptors in that one. And then last year, they have the deep playoff run,

but he was at 17 a game. His three-point shooting was really good, 44%. But at 17 a game, I think he needs to be more than that. And it's not a game one. I still would be shocked if the Orlando Magic were to beat the Milwaukee Bucks. But despite the historic kind of regular season numbers, which I believe in, in that this point differential is a real deal here. I think anytime you look at the Bucks and

there's that, I'm not sure, I'm not sure part of it. Maybe that's what we should have always done. Maybe we should have always been more open-minded to some of the other teams that are coming out of the East, but I didn't think like bad ones were going to come out of the East. I mean, you can, the Sixers situation right now is the same old thing. And when you have Alec Burks,

like taking big shots down the stretch and Embiid wasn't getting the ball that turned into a thing again. But I would also say like a lot of times when Embiid gets a long time to set up in the post, he's not great with the ball that turned into a thing again um but i would also say like a lot of times when mb gets a long time to set up in the post he's not great with the ball and i think brett brown even acknowledge it like sometimes in the post mb can when he starts to turn away from the double but then is into traffic defensively people will get in there and get a hand in there um you know even this pacers run that was great with tj warren you know i don, I don't think I'm going to pick him against the Miami Heat. So maybe with Toronto, this whole thing is a little bit more wide open,

but I'm not going to freak out. I mean, Toronto lost to the Magic last year at the beginning of their series, and they won an NBA title. But the Middleton thing, I think, is a legit concern, and he needs to be kind of like 25 a night for them, with Giannis putting up massive numbers. Milwaukee continues from the bubble to have this tendency. We saw it before that, but it was definitely something that was brought up more and more. People hit a decent

number of threes against them, and Fournier didn't do anything. Vucevic was terrific. Terrence Ross is really good. Augustine is just steady. He's not a superstar, but it was a weird loss. Weird loss for that team. The other games, mentioned Boston. I thought they were the better team the whole time, and it got close there a little bit at the end, but now we know Gordon Hayward for four weeks. That's a huge deal. I mean, he's still probably their fourth best player, but it's a big deal because he'd had these moments where if somebody else was off, then he could pick it up for you. Cause he's that kind of score and paid him looked incredible,

uh, in their first game against Philadelphia, other games, the Clippers one was weird to be down that big to the Mavs Donchik, another one of those insane games. You're like, where is this guy's ceiling? But for Przingis to be thrown out,

especially it being the back-to-back technicals where it wasn't like he was thrown out for the confrontation. He just, it was his second technical. And Steve Javi agreed with it. No breaking news on that one that Javi thought it was the right call. I don't know.

I would love, he came to push Morris, who you knew was going to mess with Doncic. And Doncic isn't having it with anybody. And Doncich kind of twirled away at Morris and then Porzingis comes over and he pushes him and it's the second tactical and he's out of the game.

Paul George was great to close. That was really kind of the difference even though Donchich, he had a play against Kawhi where he went at Kawhi and shouldered Kawhi in the chest and got Kawhi off of his body. He bullied Kawhi Leonard on a drive. And the end of this game, all their offense was

Doncic going, I can get a layup every single time against this team, even with these wing defenders. And that's scary, man. That was really scary. I'd be curious to see how much sooner he goes to that. But with no Przingis, he didn't really have much of a choice. The other games, Raptors, Nets, exactly what you'd expect. And really, Donovan Mitchell, 57 points, but a backcourt violation that's unacceptable. And what I loved about that game for Denver, said Jamal Murray moments. Okay, where are we? Where are we?

He was unbelievable in overtime and closing out that game. Like, he was the guy. And Jokic was totally fine deferring to him the whole time. So that, I think if you're a Denver Nuggets fan, not to say that Jamal Murray hasn't had big games in the past, but that's just a great start for him in this playoff series to get that going again. Because I still think that Jazz can hang with the Nuggets. They're probably not going to pick him. And Conley will be back after the birth of his son.

So there you go. A little day one and day two wrap up. And this will be released before the later games on day two. Before we get to Todd McShay, it's the original light beer. Miller Lite has always been there to bring people together through Miller time. But in a world where you can't always be with your people, Miller time might be a moment on a zoom call, a quick porch beer with your neighbors or masking up for a socially distance hangout outside,

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we basically try to pick the worst profession for the rest of us. Like, what if you were a farmer? Would you be good at that? The answer is probably no. And then you'd say to somebody else, like, you're a dumb guy. You'd be a bad accountant. Oh, okay. And then we just kind of go around the table or the Zoom call and we try to get a consensus best occupation for that person who we think would be the worst possible fit. For me, daycare is probably one of the ones that would jump off the top of my mind. Again, though, I do like kids, so it wouldn't be that. It would just be, I don't know that I get a ton of clients. They'd be like, what? That guy's got his own daycare? That's weird.

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So Miller Lite, great taste with only 96 calories and 3.2 carbs. However, you and your friends are enjoying Miller time this summer. You can have the original Lite beer delivered by going to MillerLite.com forward slash RR and find the delivery options near you. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Pumped to have my friend Todd McShay, ESPN draft analyst uh with us on the pod because you had

your least favorite piece of your entire career the too early mock draft that we've been over a million times you hate doing it but you had another piece that talked about some of the challenges about what we could have even looking at here with the draft so what are what are you hearing how much of a free-for-all could this become depending on all the different versions of college football we may or may not have this year right well first of all we have to find out what what's going to go on with the big 12 sec and acc as we sit here today i'm told by every executive that i talk to everyone in in college football we're playing ball. Those three conferences throw everything out, the medical, all the issues, and we're going to play football.

Now, will we finish football is the bigger question. That's what everyone's talking about. We're going to start. We're probably going to start on the 12th of September, but will we finish it? So long and short, just like focusing completely on the 12th of September, but will we finish it? So long and short, just like focusing completely on the draft. Picture like, so you're going into your final year and you know you're bigger and stronger and faster and you've worked your whole life

and you're finally getting an opportunity to be the starter at Alabama, at corner, or the starter at corner at Ohio State, like Sean Wade. Sean Wade's a great example. He is going to be the next in line to be a top 10, top 15 pick coming out of Ohio State. But he's sat behind a bunch of first-round picks. Jalen Waddell from Alabama is a great example.

He was the number four target for Alabama last year. And the two guys that went ahead of him and left this year were top 10 picks in the NFL draft. Henry Ruggs and after that, Jerry Judy. So some of these guys are in a situation like they're good enough to be a first round pick. They're good enough to make $20, $ million dollars guaranteed money over a four-year contract and they're sitting there saying like this is my year to finally be the guy to finally show that i can make that money to finally

get my family out of debt to pay bills to like change my my family over like two or three generations right and now they're the coronavirus comes in and there might not be football in the fall and so for like for teams in the in the pac-12 and in the big 10 they're trying to figure out what to do in in the spring and i ryan i it's just not going to work. Okay? Like, you can have spring football. That's fine. If you want to do that, go ahead. Do it.

But I'm telling you right now, based off of everything I know and everyone I've talked to, write down any name you want. Think about anyone who's important in college football. Think about anyone that you're sitting on your couch having a beer, doing whatever you're doing, and, like, excited about watching a game. Trevor Lawrence, the Clemson quarterback. Travis Etienne, the running back from Clemson. The Alabama wide receivers, Devontae Smith and Jalen Waddell.

I just mentioned Waddell. Justin Fields, the Ohio State quarterback. Any big-name player you're thinking about who's draft eligible, cross him off. He's not playing. Because it doesn't make any sense to play a season. And I don't care, and I've seen the proposals. I've seen the December through late February, early March. I've seen the January through late March. I've seen the February through April.

None of it works. And it's not because they have to run 40s and jump verticals or any of that stuff, right? The problem is the human body is not set up to play in six, eight, 10 games. Spring games. Yeah, in spring games, and then have to go, first of all, a couple weeks later or maybe a month later, have to go to rookie training camp and then training camp in August, in July and early August, and then have to play another 16-game season. So you're talking about if some of these guys could play 26 games in like nine months, it just doesn't work. So I know there are a lot of players there. And I love the fact that we want to play the whole movement. But when they take a step back from all this, what's going to happen is their parents, agents, people talking to them are going to say,

it's not rational. And so what I think is easily just erase all those top players. And then I think there's going to be about 100 players talking about first through four rounds that say, I'm opting out. I can't put my body through that. The upside's not worth the risk. If I get injured, and then even if I don't get injured, if I go into training camp, and I'm fatigued, I'm not ready to go. It just doesn't make any sense. And I'll say this. I would advise any player that gets a recommendation from the NFL saying you're going to be a first or second round draft pick.

Absolutely do not play in the spring. And even if you think you're going to be a mid round pick, and I would never say this before, you and I've talked about a thousand times, I would never say this to any player who didn't get from the advisory committee of the NFL, a first or second round draft grade. I would still tell you, like, if you think you're third, fourth round, don't play. Don't play in the spring. And it's really all about the spring. round don't play don't play in the spring and it's all really all about the spring okay so your your whole thing what you just said is spring-based you don't think that impacts whatever version of the fall like do you still have an open mind about the fall because even though we can

make all the sec jokes i still almost have to see that ball in the air on a Saturday night before I'm like saying, all right, this is definitely happening. And that your, your Intel is telling you that it's, they're at least going to try. And that, that draft class of people that are playing in the fall conferences are probably still going to play ball. Yeah. Go play. Absolutely. Trevor Lawrence, if we're playing in the fall, he's, he's going to play and he should play.

Trevor Lawrence, if we're playing in the fall, he's going to play. And he should play. So, you know, we look at it big picture in all the different conferences. But you've got to understand, like, they're in that bubble. They're in that mindset of, like, I'm with my teammates. I've got to play in the fall. And I'm going – I'm moving forward as if nothing else has happened. And so I would recommend to every single prospect, play in the fall, don't play in the spring.

That would be my whole speech. It would be real simple. Play in the fall, don't play in the spring. And I expect that they will. And again, the ACC is like a dog with a bone. They're going to play. And the same with the SEC. And the Big 12 seems to be from,

again, from people I'm talking to, hanging on because they can't imagine watching the SEC and ACC playing. And then the schools like Texas and Oklahoma, how do we justify this if they're playing that we don't? So I think these three conferences are very likely at this point to start the season and then we'll see what happens. How many of your first round picks that you would, you know, your one through 32,

how many are playing as of now? Is it half? It's brutal, man. Right now, I'll just go through the top 10. Five of the top 10 are from the, from the Pac- go through the top 10. Five of the top 10 are from the Pac-12

and the Big 10. And then I've got another guy who was, oh, Gregory Rousseau, the defensive end from Miami, has already opted out. So you're talking about six of the top 10 that are not going to play football this fall. Not going to play

football at all this season, very likely. So now as a general manager, and I've talked to a bunch of GMs recently, just because I've been curious. How are you going to change scouting? How does everything change? What do you try to do? It's so hard to look at a player and say, yeah, in 2019, he was great. Rousseau, he had 15 and a half sacks.

He projects to be a first round pick, but the tape says I'd love to see more consistency in terms of his get off. And I'd love to see him, you know, improve his array of pass rush moves. He's great with his arm over, but you see have the club and the rip and all those sorts of things. And so it's going to make it really difficult. And what the thing that's, that sucks, to be honest with you, is that let's say right now, Rousseau's opted out,

but right behind him is the, the Wake Forest defensive end Carlos Basham who's opting to play. Now Basham goes out and plays and gets better, but Rousseau opted out, or any of these guys, for that matter. Yeah. And now you're more comfortable because I saw them play. I know they're in game shape. I know the structure is still there.

And you look at these players, it could be 15, 17 months from when you've seen them play a competitive football game to when they're going to play their first game in their rookie season. And that's tough to make those decisions as a GM. Yeah, because I've always looked at, well, clearly the quarterbacks. Matt Barkley is a great example. If Matt Barkley had come out a year earlier, he's a top 10 pick. And then all of a sudden, it's okay.

So that's such a massive drop-off to drop like 100 spots. That doesn't happen in basketball. The bigger thing, Ry, is look at the last few drafts. Joe Burrow, I had a fifth-round grade on. A year ago, right. Right now, a year ago, i had a fifth round grade on fifth a year ago right like right now a year ago i had a fifth round grade on and i was saying and i was nice i have so i've been saying this on tv and i've had a couple guys from the league text me like dude you're lying you're full you're full of you know what like there's no way you had a fifth like we had a free agent

grade on him he wasn't even worried like how did you even have that so fifth fifth round was a generous august grade a year so wait they were mad because they think you're lying you were too high on them yeah because i i was bumping it up to make myself look better like listen fifth round seventh round or undrafted free agent you're making a few hundred thousand dollars and if you make the team you know like and then you get them you know the league minimum he won he made i don't have it in front of me but i read it earlier this summer six uh four years i think it was 36 million and then 24 and a half and in terms of the uh the fifth year. No, not even the fifth year. So, let's put it this way. Over

four years, he made over $30 million versus what he would have gotten if he was drafted a year ago. Think about that. And then Kyler Murray was going to be in Oakland A. Right? Yeah. I mean, he'd be playing

baseball. He was going to be in Oakland oakland it took until mid-october with nfl scouts coming back and saying damn this guy's got to play this guy's got to play in the league and for for lincoln riley to start telling him you can play at this level i remember sitting down with lincoln and be like hey tyler's going to major league baseball right and my buddy pete woodford who i grew up with, since we were four years old, we've been friends, and he works in the Major League Baseball offices. He's like, yeah, Kyler's coming to play.

He signed for, I think it was $9 million with the Oakland A's. Don't even waste your time. I had NFL scouts from that area, from the Southwest, saying, you know, he's still an underclassman. He's definitely going to play baseball. So we're just not going to do the work on it now. We'll get back to it next year if he decides to play college football again. And then he's the first-round pick.

And then the year before that was Baker Mayfield. I had a third-round grade on him, and he's the first overall pick. The point of the story is the last three first overall picks were – they had so far off the radar in terms of getting that number one overall money. And they've all made 30 plus million in a four-year contract. And so what hurts is knowing that there are guys out there that could get in the first round, and there always are, that can get in the first round that don't have a chance to go out there and prove that they've gotten bigger, they've gotten a better opportunity, and they're ready to be that guy. Yeah, that's a great reminder.

I mean, it's a great reminder on just how far away these guys are. And you're right. It was $24 million in guaranteed, but the 50- option um would be a lot more than than what he's making yeah on uh on the 36 million for years for burrow yeah for burrow okay so then you were proposing some stuff that i actually thought was kind of smart but yet we still feel like it's a bit of a free-for-all on maybe doing some showcase stuff for players uh i the first thing i thought of when i read that i was like oh that's a great idea the first thing I thought of when I read that, I was like, oh, that's a great idea. The second thing I thought of was

you can't get an NBA guy to shoot free throws in an empty gym if he's a high pick. Nobody wants to do anything for anyone to maybe hurt their draft status. I don't know if it'd be a football mentality thing, but are teams talking about doing something like that knowing full well none of the players have to do any of it? So here's the the whole thing when when we we had the big 10 and pac-12 say that they were going to postpone their their season or maybe cancel it i started thinking like

all right he's and i don't know why i i feel or like I'm just – I'm so invested in these players. I spend so many hours watching them, reading their backgrounds and their medical checks and getting to know some of them. I just – I know where a lot of the guys have come from. I know where a lot of these guys – like what they've had to do to get where they are. And I just – I have a great appreciation for them. And so I looked at it and I started thinking,

all right, what, what can we do? Because if you're, all right, if you're going out to get a job in finance, right, your resume is where'd you go to college? Uh, where's, what's your degree? Uh, did you have an internship? All those things. Your resume as a football player and going to the NFL is your tape. That's your baseline. Okay. Now there's character information. There's, there's a medical information, but your baseline is what you've put on tape. So there are so many guys like Joe Burrow and these quarterbacks, and we can go on and on about players who deserve to be in the first round, but didn't have a chance to show it until their final year that are losing out on this opportunity.

So I called Jim Nagy after I started brainstorming and I literally was pacing up and down in my apartment and I'm home alone because my family's at the beach. And, and I'm just like, what can we do? How can we supplement the tape and get them a better opportunity? And the first thing I thought of, not the combine, the combine is great for what, you know, what it's worth for the medical and the character stuff. And you get the confirmation of the 40 and those sorts of things. But the most important thing that I get in terms of the pre-draft process from the second that national championship is over till the draft that first night i nothing

more do i benefit from from the three practices in uh in mobile alabama forget the game the game's good and i've watched that too but the practices it's cornerback versus wide receiver press man one-on-one like let's actually see this like kid from um you know from louisiana lofty at going up against an alabama wide receiver like can he does he actually run a four or five in pads it's like the speed can he turn and run with these guys or does he look great on tape because he's going up with up against a bunch of guys that aren't that good tackles versus defensive ends. Guards versus defensive tackle.

Linebackers covering running backs. Those sorts of things are amazing tools in terms of evaluating players. And you only get two and a half days of that in mobile. So what I proposed to Jim Nagy, who is the executive director of the Senior Bowl, and I worked with him when I was an intern coming out of college, and we've been friends for 20 years now, is expanding it. I would love to see three weeks, maybe only two weeks, whatever it is, creating a bubble in Mobile. And it obviously depends on what's going on with the coronavirus and,

and all that, but like giving it's so everyone wins. If this happens, the players get an opportunity if they want to, to go and showcase what they can do. The evaluators from NFL teams who are missing out on all this tape that is usually part of like, if you're a teacher grading, you know, a student over a course of a semester you want the quizzes the tests the participation all that stuff like they're losing a huge part of their evaluation and their jobs on the line so now they get a little bit more to work off of

and then tv gets involved and that's the part that you know involved in. But to me, there's something to be gained. And beyond what I wrote in that article on ESPN.com, I've talked to a couple people from two of the biggest corporations in America. And they want to talk about having four to six game pre-draft showcase season, something along those lines. I have calls scheduled in the next 10 days with one of them in three days and one of them in nine

days about investing and trying to put it on TV and doing all that. People are interested. I don't care about anything. I just want these guys to go out and be able to show what they can do. I want evaluators to be able to evaluate properly and not lose their job or not feel like they're, they're like, they're chasing something that isn't there.

Hey man, I really appreciate you, uh, taking the time out to do this. And I know, did they give you a TV schedule or no? Did they give you a TV schedule or no? No. So I lost my crew from last year. Greasy and Levy graduated to Monday Night Football. You know what? Now that I think about it,

McDonough went on to Monday Night Football after working with me. Greasy and Levy were going to Monday Night Football after leaving me. I'm going to have to talk to them about that. I feel like I've helped their careers. Or either that or they just had to get away. Yeah, could be that. I'm very fortunate I've been bumped up or transitioned to working with Sean McDonough again and Todd Blackledge on that number two game, which is huge. I've always wanted to be part of the college football playoff.

And we'll have one of those games and do the national championship on the radio and all that. So I'm hoping we have a season, obviously. Yeah, exactly. If we don't, then hopefully I still have the gig a year from now. We'll see. Well, hey, look, man, I appreciate it. And you know how badly I hope i get to see you out there on the sideline pretty soon so yeah always i'll talk to you soon before we get to seth curry

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Did a great job. Obviously, everybody was suspect when we first got here, talking about the food and just being stuck in a hotel for a couple of days. But once we got out of that first quarantine, it's been cool, man. It's been pretty seamless. It's kind of like a little AU tournament

for everybody. Just play basketball, go to your room, hang out, and try to take care of business. What's your day like then? What's an off day like? Off day? I've been playing a lot of golf,

so they got like three golf courses set up for us so i i get out with uh either coach jj maria a couple of other coaches we get out play golf in the morning get some treatment and just hang out in the room or about a pool and try to that those off days go by slow man so i kind of want to get back in the gym when there's all these different players around and, you know, everybody's different, do you reach out to other guys that you're friends with that you've known for a long time to the basketball world? Like, is it cool to go meet up with other guys

on another team and socialize with them? Honestly, not. That's not what I've seen. I've seen guys kind of hang out with their own team, do their own thing, obviously. If you're at the pool and you see other teams at the pool, you'll, you know, chat with them for a little bit kick it but for me i'm really i'm either in the room or at practice in the middle room one of those three places and kind of keep it to myself

i uh i love watching your team play and you know i love your story that i want to get to here in a second but as you've run through this and we knew you guys were going to be in the playoffs, and you're kind of looking at your matchups, is your team in a spot right now, Seth, where you feel like, okay, we know exactly who we are. It's the best offense in the NBA. Clearly, there's some struggles there defensively. But are you totally convinced of who you are?

Because I think some of these teams at the end of the playoffs are still a little confused on who they actually will be once they start this week. Yeah, I think, I mean, for a young team and having a young couple of stars in KP and Luca, we have a pretty good identity of who we are. We,

I mean, we're off the team first. We are the best offense in the league and pretty much NBA history before the shutdown. So we know, I mean, we're kind of trying to come in, kind of trying to outscore people,

but if we can string a couple couple little stretches of good stops in, we feel like we can beat anybody. So we have that confidence when we step on the floor that, I mean, we've proven no team in the league can really stop us from scoring a lot of points every night. So that gives us a great chance to beat anybody. Now you, offensively, I think you're a big team it's funny because people can talk about how everybody sizes down and teams play small and go five out you're a big team at so

many positions and you still play five out can you explain to like some of us that just watch what are some of the similarities of what you do offensively and some of the differences between because it can look like Houston at times but I understand conceptually there's different things that you do. Yeah, we got KP. Nobody in the league got a guy like KP that can defend the rim and guard fives on defense, but then on offense, plays perimeter, stretches it out, and opens the floor for everybody to drive the ball. So we have at all times, we pretty much have five guys with Maxie and KP out there that can shoot the ball and put the ball on the floor and drive it.

So a lot of different guys can make plays, even though Luka is similar to James Harden in the fact that he handles the ball and makes a lot of plays. We still have other guys around that make plays and move the ball. And every once in a while we can throw KP in the post. So we got a lot of different ways we can beat guys offensively, and obviously Luka bears the biggest load in trying to create plays and make plays for everybody throughout the course of the game. Yeah, Houston feels very stationary off of Harden's movements. Do you feel like you are moving around a little bit more on the perimeter

than, say, Houston is? Yeah, I feel like we got maybe more plays and get into offense different ways than Houston does. I mean, obviously James is up there playing a lot of ISO. Luka is more of an ISO guy when he has a mismatch

or they switch KP on a ball screen. But I mean, James will come down and just ISO anybody in front of him. I think that's the biggest difference. What's your favorite part of playing with Luka? Just the joy he plays with, man. He's a young kid, and you can tell when he gets out on the floor, he just loves the game.

So it's similar to – honestly, it's similar to Steph in a lot of senses where he's just out there having a lot of fun, and he puts on a show. And you can tell he's – like I like say he's loving the game and love him playing and obviously i love i mean he gets a lot of attention that can can pass the ball and get to me in spots where i don't even realize i'm open but um i mean he's he's special already yeah that's a good point about you maybe not realizing that he sees you is it did it take a little bit longer to understand that you can almost never give up on possession with him because it i think it takes

some getting used to if you're another player going oh he's still like this play is still alive where other guys at certain points are like okay I'm not getting the ball I mean I noticed it last year playing against him and just watching him that he can make passes just being 6'8 and big that most point guards can't make so if I'm in the opposite

corner and I'm a little bit guarded he can look a certain way and throw it all the way across the floor where I just got to be ready at all times to be able to shoot it or make a play when I catch it. So it's definitely a learning experience playing with him.

But I mean, he creates so many opportunities for other guys that it makes our job easy. He's pretty intense too. I think sometimes when guys are young the rest of the league can be surprised but when you're that good it's like okay well it doesn't matter that you're intense what what is it about his personality like something that people don't know something you've learned like if your friends ask you about him a good lucas story uh i mean obviously you see all the trick shots and and that stuff he does he's a kid so he's

playing around all day and i think that allows him to come into games just feeling free. I haven't seen him really feel nervous once. You know what I'm saying? He's a competitor, and playing a lot of big games overseas, the NBA is just another game for him. So that's one thing I'm looking forward to about this playoffs. I know one thing, he's not going to be afraid out there. He's not going to be timid, and that gives our whole team confidence.

Your story, I think people know it now now and in the beginning it was okay liberty what were you a two star in some rankings man i don't even know if i was that i was a two or three in north carolina so i found you as a two and a three in some of them so you go to liberty and then it's like oh you know maybe you can play and i don't know if sometimes people are like hey they underestimated steph so maybe we're doing the same thing you go to duke you put a big numbers there then you're undrafted and then it's the g league and then you get would you get cut the day you made your nba debut or the day after um so i had i was in a d league i got a 10 day with cleveland that was your nba debut right one game my debut yeah one game i played one in Cleveland. Didn't really get a chance. It took me a couple years to actually get a chance to show what I can do at the NBA level. So, I mean, that's been my story at every level. I had

to prove myself and just try to make an impact every time I got on the floor. It's been a crazy journey. It really, like, there are guys that are like, oh, hey, you know, this guy got better. But when you consider out of high school, no programs then Duke gives you the shot and then it's still not good enough and I can go back and look at it and remember what I saw where I go I don't I just don't know like I don't know I mean your brother's an incredible player so that wasn't a fair comparison but did you know the whole time it was there was there a light switch moment for you as a player or was it you fighting the doubt, knowing deep down what you're doing now is something you were always going to do?

In high school, I felt like I wasn't really under-recruited. I wasn't that good. I had a lot of stuff to get better at. A lot of people say I was underrated or looked down on, but I wasn't that good. So I really got to live to be my freshman year, got a lot better, and I got that confidence where I could be on the floor with – feel like I'd be on the floor with anybody and I'd be good.

So I think once I got to Duke and got to the league, I feel like I just needed an opportunity, and I was good enough to figure it out at every level. I maybe got off to a slow start, but I always figured out and be one of the best guys on the floor. So I was just trying to hopefully get the opportunity being a draft in the league. That's one of the hardest things because you can be good,

but you might never get that opportunity. Nobody really invested in you with a draft pick to throw you out on the floor. So I was hoping I got the opportunity and it probably came to Sacramento and I, and I, I was prepared for it. So do you feel like when you,

cause is those that may have forgotten, you obviously know Memphis one game, Cleveland one game, Phoenix two games. Those are your first two years in the career going back and forth. And I know you're putting up G League numbers, but sometimes like I'll look at the G League numbers and go, okay, it feels like everybody scores

like crazy in that league. But Sacramento wasn't a surprise to you is what you're telling me. Like this was just, hey, finally, I got some minutes here. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, like you don't a surprise to you, is what you're telling me. Like, this was just, hey, finally, I got some minutes here. Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, like, you don't know. In G League, a lot of guys score.

It's a fast-paced league, and people get comfortable. But you don't know if it's going to translate to the NBA. So, for me, I was focusing on if I – I mean, I know I should have shot the ball well. If I shot a high clip once I got to the league, and I knew that would translate no matter what. If I make open shots, I know I can use my three ball to create off the dribble, and if I do those two things consistently in the league, then I'll be fine. So, like I said, I was making that wait for the opportunity, and I always had confidence that once I got the opportunity, I'll be fine.

Because I know when you've had some – I think it was with Sacramento, the first time you might have had a player option on the second year. Yeah. And you turned it down. So what kind of conversations were you having either with your agent and then through your agent with front office people going, okay, we're ready to take you seriously and here to give you a chance? Yeah, in Sacramento.

So like it kind of helped us out. We were so bad. I got an opportunity that second year to just, the guys were sitting out and we were kind of taking it. That's how I started my career. We were so bad. Station was terrible. They threw me out there. Yep. They threw me out there and like I said,

I had a good like 20-25 game stretch of just being consistent and playing well and I knew the whole league was taking notice of it. So I finally had the opportunity to be a free agent and and have a few options and make a little bit of money so um that's what after that year in sacramento i knew i would have a decent career how bored is your brother right now oh my god he's when i talk

to him he didn't want to say it but i i can tell he's hurting right now. It's tough for him to watch, I know. I don't know if you know how much of a Steph defender I've been over the years. I doubt it comes up a lot at the holidays, but I have been. Maybe because just early on I was like, wait, this might be really special. But I also have a theory that because he's undersized, maybe it's because your dad played, that there seems to be sometimes resentment from other stars in the league. Have you ever picked up on that?

For whatever reason, I don't know the right way to phrase it, but I almost feel like he's one of the most disrespected stars when he has the resume that would back up any claim of him being one of the best players. Yeah, I see it. I think most people see it, his teammates. I think Andre Iguodala has said it a couple times that he sees the resentment and kind of the hate,

but what you're going to do, I think it's maybe because all those factors you said and then a guy his size and the stuff he does, maybe it's not supposed to be as dominant as he is consistently, but like I said, he enjoys the game. He has fun with it. I mean, it's just part of it. Does he watch these games?

Does he talk with you about them the whole time? Because I mean, this must be a bit of a role reversal where you're still playing, he's not, and I don't know if,

like some guys are wired differently. Like, hey, let me know when the season starts next year. I have no interest in this. And other guys are just hooked on it. Yeah,'t know i know he watches our games i don't know if he's watching a majority of the games like me if i'm at home i'm watching every

game him he's not he hasn't been that type in the past but i mean he hasn't been around in the game so long who knows if he's locked in or not but um yeah like i said it's tough on them to to not be at home right now and it's usually this time of year I'm in the stands watching him. And he said he's going to be on the little virtual screen, come play all the time to watch us and our crowd. So I'm going to see if he's there. Now, because this game has become shooting and somebody like you is now going to be in the career,

like I almost sent you a note going, hey, I'm really happy for you. And now, like whatever it's going to be, you're going to be playing in this league a long time it's just we both know that you probably feel like hey i could probably do even a little bit more is is that a struggle where you go okay i know luke is always going to have the ball however the rotations work out there's guys that we've seen play that you're like you look like a completely different guy in a pickup game than you do when you actually play in a real game so how much more growth is there for your game which you know doesn't necessarily need to grow that much to keep getting paid but i imagine there's moments where you go i could actually

initiate more of this offense but i'm not used that way uh for me i mean i feel like i mean everybody wants some time to have a bigger role but for me just growing up around the league and having a dad that i did who played 16 years as being a six man or a role guy, I got a lot of respect for the guys that played 10 plus years and just in that role, just stick to it. Sometimes it's harder to just stick to a role for that long and be comfortable and compliment stars and, and just like do your job for a long time. So like, so I'm comfortable where I'm at. I like, I mean,

playing my role, but also having the capability to stand in when guys are hurt and make plays for a certain amount of stretch and have a bigger role. But for me, I kind of had to go

to play 10 plus years and no matter what it is, I feel like, I mean, I don't have the bite eye to size or whatever it is to be a star in this league for that long. So I kind of embrace who I am

and trying to make it last for a long time. Do you pay any attention to the all-time career leader in three-point shooting? Or is it just us guys that bring it up to you all the time? Yeah, it's you guys that let me know. I don't really watch the stats like that. But from what I know, I'm second right now. You are second. You dropped a little bit behind Steve Kerr, which, again, the only reason I think I saw it again because I remember when it first

happened because we would have debates on the old radio show about who was a better shooter than Steph and I just said look I Kyle Corver can have better numbers but Kyle Corver doesn't take the same shots as Steph like to be the best shooter like don't tell me because you're buried like you're just married to that corner three that your percentage is the better like there's just different levels to shooting where I just don't think it's all percentages now anyway yeah I have our beat our beat guys will come up to me and say do you do you brag to Steph that you hired him on the all-time NBA three-point percentage list I'm like man he's made probably a thousand more threes than me in in his career so that's not really something I want to bring up

at the dinner table right now. See, look at that. Because a lot of guys wouldn't even concede any of that kind of stuff. I've got a couple of quick ones for you here, but I want to ask you two more. What did you guys learn about the Clippers in those losses in the regular season

that you can maybe use once you match up here in the playoffs? We've had some good moments against them. Obviously, they beat us, what, three or four times now. But, I mean, they're a great team, a talented team. But we've been close pretty much every time except one. We've been close to knocking them off. And, I mean, this is a whole different situation,

a whole different set of circumstances. Not everybody's playing well. They're not playing their best. We're not playing our best. Like I said, we have a lot of confidence that if we go in there doing what we do, it's going to be hard to stop us. We just got to figure out our fourth quarter woes and we'll be

fine. We've blown so many games down the stretch that we got to get over that hump. Yeah, the Milwaukee game was okay. I don't follow all 30 teams the same way the fan bases do but when i saw the close loss number i'm like oh my god like it's yeah we should have what happened we um it's been a lot of those this year man we should have

probably seven eight nine more wins than we do just based on the way we played and how we finished games but i mean that's just part of of it, having a young core of guys trying to figure out as they go along, having Luke and KP get their feet under them as stars. I think it shows we've got a lot of potential to get better and really make a long run these next few years. Does it suck? I mean, you might not want to admit this because they're the competition,

but does it suck getting into a switch where you're like, all right, Paul George. Oh, cool. Now I have Kawhi on me. Oh, cool. Now it's Patrick Beverly. I mean, that's got to be like, this isn't – I think I'd rather have that Lillard, Grayson, Allen ISO

that we saw at the end of the game. It's a challenge, man. It's a challenge. You kind of look forward to that. I mean, you know it's like it's one of the best teams in the league. They got a lot of talent on both ends of the floor and individual defensive talent like you named those guys. But, I mean, when you step on the floor, that's what the playoffs is all about.

It's about you're playing against the best teams and they don't have a lot of weak links. So, it's a challenge you accept and you're ready to get through. And, you know, if we get to that second round, we're really going to have to earn it. Okay, five questions. We can go rapid fire. You take as long as you want.

Who would you rather room with on the road, Prazingis or Luka? Oh, man. I think KP. KP a little chill, a little bit more laid back like me. I know Luka's right next to me, actually. I hear his music all the time, blasting. What's he got going on? The regga spanish music i hear i hear it every morning

yeah guys that like music it's cool like everybody likes music but there's time you go all right um i remember this is a little old for you but i went to a basketball camp when i was like a sophomore in high school a couple couple of camps. And this one in particular, my roommate played that crisscross thing. Oh, yeah. But he kept the CD shuffle. It was like one of those CD man deal, disc man. And he just kept it on repeat.

And that's how we went to bed every night. And I was like, are you serious with this? The same song? The same song. It was like torture. Yeah. Yeah, that's rough. In case you wanted to tell anybody my basketball camp stories, which I doubt you do. I was like, are you serious with this? The same song? The same song. It was like torture. Yeah, that's rough. In case you wanted to tell anybody my basketball camp stories,

which I doubt you do. All right, next one. When your brother is making the money he's making and you're working your way up, can you ask him for money for something serious? Is that even a conversation you can have? Or is that even a question I shouldn't even ask? I'm asking it, and maybe I'm a jerk for asking, but I think it's something that's fascinated me um i've never really asked him for money i don't i mean i'm lucky enough to not have to right now but um

oh and a g-league um i mean most stuff i ask them for is like connections like can you hook me up can you get some people to give me tickets to this or you know i'm saying can you give me the new um callaway drive or something like that you know that's fair look at that yeah because i would always wonder like if i were a max guy and my brother were in the g league would i get him a car or something but then i'd be like i don't know i don't know i would think i probably would i'm pretty good with my siblings but i didn't know how that dynamic works with you guys now you you don't need it, so who cares? Yeah. Okay. Rick Carlisle, does he hate everyone?

It looks like it, but he's actually a cool dude, man. He's chill. We play a lot of golf together now. We got more comfortable with each other. It's just, man, once you figure out his personality, then it's a lot easier. What was it like when Clay's brother was your backcourt mate in the g what were what were those would you

guys sit up like stepbrother style being like man that was awesome did you see those guys that's such a weird thing that you're yeah you're clay's you know clay's guy was your backcourt guy too yeah that was a crazy little coincidence um but i mean it was fun time we were having fun getting a lot of minutes down in the g league and santa cruz um i forgot we had they had a little nickname for us yeah i was trying to figure that out what was i forgot what it was it was like it was obviously a play on the splash brothers but like kind of disrespectful not the trash brothers no no no it was like that's too much yeah that's that's too negative yeah like the...

I don't know. It wasn't Baby Splash, but it was better than that, but it was kind of disrespectful but funny at the same time. Well, no one has that disrespect for you anymore, man. I'm really happy for you

and your story, and I do love watching the Mavs play. So let's see how the bubble goes, man, with the playoffs. It takes a lot for the time. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

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So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. All right, here we go. This is from Tom says life advice for a comparative monster. And then he said he did that just to get noticed. Well, congrats, Tom. That worked. Hey, I'm a normal guy. I'm 22, just graduated with a finance degree from a great university, just got a full-time job in Austin, Texas doing consulting work for a smaller accounting firm. My question is about comparing myself to my friends. I have a friend who has a full-time job at a big bank in investment banking. He also has an acceptance letter for an MBA program at, well, I guess he's saying it's either an Ivy or Stanford or maybe his, I don't think it's both, but he's, all right. So this guy is going to get into a big-time MBA

program. It's always tough for me to look at him and just imagine if I work harder, I could be there. How do you deal with looking around at your friends and peers, seeing where they are versus where you are versus where you could have been? Uh, this is actually a pretty good question because, um, you know, you can waste a lot of time worrying about other people and I know I've had my moments especially in this business where I'm like well how come this guy's got a show or what's going on here

it generally is a waste of time it just is because the other thing too there's so many times especially when you're younger there's so much there's going to be so much of your time when you're younger. And we've, we've touched on this before where you think you're so far behind all these other guys. And you know what, you know, a move, a change of career, you know, next thing you know, it isn't, it doesn't feel like this guy's crushing it anymore. And you know, that part kind of sucks

though too, because you don't want to be a guy who like is rooting against your own friends okay and you know if you're sitting here at 22 23 saying oh if i could have worked hard i could well you didn't you didn't he did and you know maybe you're still really really young so it's not like you're on these different paths where your lives are going to be completely different, but, um, there's, there's something to be said to be being competitive. And yes, I would like to be doing better than everybody, I guess is the way you look at it, but I don't wake up going, I've got to crush everyone. I have to be better than everybody. Oh, I can't believe so- so and so made all this money and i didn't like i've done that in the past and it's just a total fucking waste of time and honestly people

kind of get turned off uh by you saying it because i've brought it up a couple times with different work stuff and it's not too hard to figure out at espn because a lot of us on air would be very competitive and looking around other people we hear rumors about somebody else's deal and you know it's one thing to think it but then it's another to say it where I'm like, Hey, actually that guy sucks. And, uh, yeah, I should be making more money than him. I mean, you may think that on the ride home, but, uh, yeah, if you start saying that stuff out loud, your friends might get down on you. I remember we had a friend in college who ended up not getting his degree. And he's a great guy, great friend. But he had said something one time where, and it was a really good point, but it just sounded bad,

where I was behind. I ended up getting my degree a little bit later on, but I was going to get it. And we were watching all of our friends who we just assumed were just as dumb as us. They got through it. They showed up four years prior, eight semesters, and they got their college degree. And for some of them, you're like, I can't believe this guy ever graduated. And one of my friends, this kid was like,

you know, I almost think less of it watching this happen. And I went, wow. I go, so you're not getting a degree and these guys are, but you're kind of like dumping on them for getting it. And I totally got his point. His point was a really good one, but I'll never forget it because he said it. He said it out loud. And you're thinking, how could you say that when you didn't do it? And that's something you always have to be careful of. We're all keeping track and that kind of stuff. But to be somebody who is always going to be keeping track of it, you're going to want to grow out of that at some point.

I mean, unless you just are totally driven. Are you only driven by your friend's success? So if one of your friends starts doing better, does it mean you're going to start doing better? That shouldn't be the stuff that motivates you. You should be motivated on your own. So there you go. Okay. This is a good one. It's a neighbor deal. All right. Life advice about a neighbor. I live in a suburb of Chicago in a complex of 20 townhouses with a central courtyard. My wife and I are in our mid-30s. Most of our families are in the complex in the 30s to 40s range. We don't have kids, but many of the families have smaller children. Everybody in the complex is, for the most part, friendly and cordial. I'm social with the other

guys, but wouldn't normally hang out with the majority of them if they weren't neighbors. A couple of months ago, we started a boys boys whiskey night where the guys would all congregate with lawn chairs in the courtyard to hang out away from the kids and family. We do it on a weekend night once every few weeks. It's a great time to shoot the shit with the other guys, the complex. We have a text thread to coordinate it and every guy is included. This past week, we started pitching the idea of another boys night on Friday night. Everybody's confirming this date works well and nobody is objecting. Friday comes along and we start texting confirmation that we will meet around 830. Everybody gives the thumbs up, but our one neighbor AP chimes in. Quick backstory on AP. He's late 30s guy with a five-year-old son, two-year-old daughter. He's quite a bit socially

awkward and definitely revolves his life around his kids. At the last whiskey night, he came 30 minutes late and immediately told everyone to move 20 feet over because the grass was still damp from his impromptu pool party earlier in the day. He's a good guy, means no harm, but he has zero social awareness. Anyway, all the guys confirm that 8.30 works well for whiskey night. AP then texts me that he's going to a kid's movie. He's going to do a kid's movie night in the courtyard, which will push back whiskey night at least an hour. Shortly after this text, he sends an email to the entire complex, inviting all the kids and family to the courtyard for a movie night. This doesn't sit well with me. I am an orthopedic surgeon on call Saturday and Sunday. I wasn't going to be able to stay out late to begin with, and now we won't be able to participate at all.

My issues that AP knew from the previous text throughout the week about whiskey night, yet still organizes an impromptu movie night that directly interferes. Do we need't be able to participate at all. My issue is that AP knew from the previous text throughout the week about Whiskey Night, yet still organizes an impromptu movie night that directly interferes. Do we need to be confrontational with this guy or just talk it up to a lack of social awareness? My big fear is that this will continue to happen if we don't speak up. And I don't want to be the childless asshole

complaining about kid stuff. That's a very good final sentence there. I would let him get this one. And then if it happens again, then you get to say something. Because he's either sabotaging the thing that the majority wants, which isn't going to work, or he just, he doesn't really get it. And you've, you've tipped us off to a couple of these, these social deals. I had a place very much like this when I lived in Connecticut,

there's a central courtyard of the whole thing. And when I had the Kentucky Derby party, that was basically mostly work people and everybody I'd known in Connecticut, and it's probably the only party, it was good. I actually put some effort into it. Bartender, cordials, many mixed drinks, all sorts of options. And it was catered affair. And then we had that step and repeat. I didn't even know what the hell that was called until one of the women were like, yeah, And then we had that step and repeat. I didn't even know what the hell that was called until one of the women were like, yeah, no, we need a step and repeat.

So I was like, for what? They're like, something to take pictures in front of. I was like, well, can't we just take a picture in front of stuff? They're like, no. Red carpet, whole deal. It was really good. It worked out great.

It was a good party. And we rented a pony. So Sarah Walsh wanted a pony at the Kentucky Dairy Party. And when the pony showed up with the pony handlers, and just so you could have your picture taken with the pony, nobody was riding the thing. It was just in the backyard of my house in this courtyard. All of these people started coming out and looking at the pony. I didn't get permission from the, I don't know who the hell I was supposed to ask for permission for the pony. I don't know what the paperwork is on that kind of thing. And what it really was, is that it was a bunch of adults having a party with a pony. And I wasn't going to start letting every kid come over to play with the pony because then I knew it was going to turn into a thing. And so we were like, look, whoever's in the party can get their picture taken with the pony, but you can't. So then kids were on like back decks of other units, like looking at the

pony. And so basically that was screwing up their deal because the kids probably wanted to come over and look at the pony. I, no one ever asked me, nobody ever said, Hey, can I bring my kid over? I didn't have to have that conversation. But what happened was, is that one of the parents later on decided to try to go and complain about me to everybody in the complex to be like, can you believe that guy brought a pony? It was the middle of the day, by the way, and the party was over early. And people were like, no, it's awesome. He's great. And he never has people over ever. And good for him. They all got dressed up. It looks like he did a great job of the party. And who cares? The pony was there for an hour just walking in circles, getting pictures taken. And it was just so funny to see all of this backfiring on him

because all of the neighbors who liked me were saying, yeah, this guy was trying to complain about you the whole time. He's like trying to get this momentum built up around you. And so from that point on, I was like, okay, I never want anything to do with this guy. So because they're your neighbors, you have to be a little delicate with this. I don't know that you have to go and organize everything, but you're right. He just decided to mess up whiskey night, boys night, because he wants the movie deal out in the courtyard. And he's either really nasty about it or he's completely oblivious. And I don't know the answer. And you probably get to give him a

pass on the first one and hope you get an answer if he ever does it again because if he does it again, then you're going to have your answer. Okay, so we got Mike Vick this week and could have somebody else. I may just put him on the same one. I'm not sure. I may move it back out. But that's what we're doing. So enjoy the playoffs and we'll talk to you on Thursday. Please subscribe

to the Ryan Russell Podcast, the Ringer Podcast Network and talk to you in a couple days. Thank you.