The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Would Rodgers Stay in Green Bay and the NFL Doesn’t Care About You With Albert Breer. Plus Alan Yang of 'Parks and Rec.'

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on NFL owners, their motivations, and the PR teams who attempt to make them likable (0:33) before talking with The MMQB’s Albert Breer about the Packers’ Thursday night win over the Cardinals, whether Aaron Rodgers will stay with the Packers beyond the 2021-22 season, speculation on Russell Wilson’s wishes to move on from the Seahawks, the likelihood of Deshaun Watson being traded before the November 2 trade deadline, and more (9:00). Then Ryen talks with writer-director-producer Alan Yang about his start in Hollywood, working on NBC’s ‘Parks and Recreation,’ the grind of a 30-episode season of TV, ‘Master of None,’ and more (42:31). Finally Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:25:18). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Albert Breer and Alan Yang Producers: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

this is gonna be a lot of fun today uh i'm gonna talk about the nfl owners you are not going to be surprised the way i talk about them albert breer on that and all the quarterback landscape stuff including a big win for the packers and what it could mean for Rodgers' future. And Alan Yang, he worked on Parks and Rec. He has a podcast about Parks and Rec. Really talented writer, fun guy, and life advice. I want to start by talking about Roger Goodell protecting the owners again this week because that's his job. We may not like it, but that's the man's job.

Protect the shield. Roger Goodell is the shield, and he's bad at talking publicly. We've learned that over the last decade plus. He's just not good at it. So even when he's trying to deliver something on the behalf, his approach has always been bad. And honestly, the topic is bad, too. We wanted to learn more about the investigation of the Washington football team and some of the emails that went around that led to John Gruden being out with the Vegas Raiders. It's basically like, hey, that's all you're getting. And we should be used to it, right? Because the shield,

really the owners, they don't care about us. All right. They've never cared. We're all marks as consumers. And we want to hold them to this higher standard because they represent something that's so important to us. And I think as you get older, too, geography matters more. Where you're from matters more. And even though these guys aren't elected officials, they're guys that just made awesome business transactions, we'd like them to feel a little bit more like elected officials because they're so emotionally attached to the thing that they're in control of. So when they're assholes to all of us about it all of the time, every time they're given a chance to be decent about things, they just can't. They're incapable of doing it.

And so when they let us down every single time, it feels more personal, even though we should never take it personally. Because here's a rule that I've always told you. If somebody tells you to have lower expectations about themselves, agree with them. Let's recap a few things. This is a group that took 5 million, I think, from the military. Now, granted, the Department of Defense, I think, spent 100 million over years trying to promote recruitment. And the NFL did it. We're all like, yeah, for the troops, halftime, someone's coming out to see their dad. Guys are waving. Flags are out there. People in

uniform. It was all paid for. None of the owners were like, hey, should we not do this? And granted, other leagues are doing it too. The NFL, I think more than the other leagues. Remember the cancer research thing that happened a couple of years ago? Remember when we found out, man, those pink hoodies are fire. I love the gloves. You're like $8 to $12 out of every hundred goes to cancer research. How does that work? Again, I'm not an idiot. There's marketing, there's costs, there's production, there's shipping, there's all of that stuff. But I'll just tell you, 8% to 12% feels a little non-researchy. Their branding's terrible.

It really is. The NFL brand itself is great, but the way they're so dismissive of their Q rating is actually fascinating. Do you remember when everybody hated them again because of concussions, right? And every time we learn more about the concussion thing, you'd be like, this, the owners really did this? Like they were this terrible with their own employees about concussions because they knew how dangerous it was

and they didn't want anyone to know. And granted that's years ago, but it also happened. And so it's like, man, everybody hates the NFL. And they go, what can we do? What can we do to change the conversation? Don Draper style. We don't like the way they're talking about us. What can we do to change the conversation? They just decided to have a bunch of like little kids in NFL jerseys and like, Hey, remember the Superbowl? We had sex. Look at all these Superbowl babies. Like don't hate us anymore because people have sex during

our biggest game. It was just weird. It was out of place. You want to talk about weird? Again, this comes off of everyone hating the NFL again, especially in the media. Did you see the ad last week where it was like, hey, what can we bang out real quick that makes us look like we are so cool? Because it shows up and it goes football, white graphic, black screen. Football is gay. And I'm like, what?

Football is lesbian. I was like, all right. Football is transgender. And you're thinking, oh, I see what you did. What's the quickest way we can get an ad made? We can't even get any graphics or anybody in it. We're just going to show everybody that we're really cool by putting this out there for 30 seconds to show how inclusive we are in this 30-second ad with just a bunch of words in it.

Because this will fix it. I can't believe there's not somebody with more power in the league that's like, do you know how stupid we look when we keep trying to do this all the time? Is there any way we can actually make a little less money and just be cooler about it? And as we all know, the rule in business is you can't ever do any of those things. This is a crazy story that I don't even think got that much attention because we couldn't believe it was happening. Do you realize they just decided to stop doing the racial profiling in the concussion lawsuits by trying to figure out the cognitive regression by some of the players,

that they just decided that? When I read that story, I was like, what year are we in? There was nobody that was like, hey, should we have two different standards for regressing cognitive brain functions between different races? Should we do that? And they did it. This brings us back to the full circle point of why we're even talking about this again. Everybody wants to read the emails. They want this report to be public. Roger Goodell was like, we can't do that. We can't do it. And meanwhile, you got Mark Davis out in Vegas owning the Raiders who's just pissed because he lost his buddy Gruden. I mean, he likes Gruden so much that Davis is probably leaving every barber visit going, we're close, but I don't think we're quite there yet.

Davis couldn't even pretend to understand why his coach wasn't there. And I've never been a Gruden fan. All right. I've never liked the guy that is, I think, pretty clear if you've heard me over the years. I mean, Gruden was using stuff where you're like, do you sit at home and watch VHS tapes of all in the family? Like who talks like this anymore? All right.

So Davis is mad at the rest of the guys for getting rid of his guy. And that's why he's mad. That's the only reason he's mad. If Davis is so mad at everybody else, then why don't you release the email so we can see everything else that happened? But that's probably not going to happen because if we know anything about NFL ownership and ownership in sports, we know that it's 32 for 32 in this case. And that's the point. We don't want any of that stuff out there because we don't want to set a precedent of any of us getting exposed for anything that's happening. And I'm not saying all 32 owners are terrible guys. I love the players, by the way. I love almost every coach that I've had a chance to interact

with. I wouldn't say I know them intimately, but this is all about the owners because every time they have a chance to do something, it's like, hey, you know what? That's pretty cool. When it becomes the big stuff, like, look, you can run an ad. You can do a donation. You can get out there and wave. You can have a celebrity in your luxury box. But when you do the big stuff, you just screw it up all the time.

Roger Goodell said he couldn't release the emails or the report because he needed to respect the anonymity of the victims. The victims said they wanted to make it public. What Goodell did here is what our parents used to do to us when we wanted something. Hey, I want ice cream. And your dad's like, actually, they don't make ice cream in Rhode Island. You believe it when you're six. You don't believe it when you're an adult. And whenever I think of how they protect each other, I get it. I'm not mad about it because I get that that's how people do business. We don't like it, right? It's emotional to us, but it's never going to change. It's never going to change because we never change the channel. It reminds me of when Donald Sterling was out with the

Clippers. Nobody's defending Donald Sterling. Nobody. I'm not defending him. Nobody wants to do that. But Cuban said something really interesting that I don't even know that he would say now, or if he said it now, he might get crushed in a way that people kind of just left it out there. But Cuban goes, look, if we're going to start taping people privately and then taking a franchise away from them because of the things they said privately, that's a slippery slope. And I like Cuban and he said it. And I even thought it was an interesting talking point. I don't think anyone would ever say that in 2021 because then it would be like Cuban defends Donald Sterling. No. But what we have is another example of the 32 guys looking out for 32 guys in the Washington report.

Staying hidden is a perfect example of this. The NFL has a self-awareness of Michael Scott. The NFL's management style at times can be Michael Scott, but like more booze and throwing stars. The NFL is your dad coming outside of the back porch when you're in college going, hey, is this a new 3-1-1? The NFL's tobacco with better hoodies. But it's never really going to change because like I said, we never change the fucking channel. From the MMQB Monday must read,

it's Albert Breer who joins us. So let's, I started with the owners in this. And I've said this for years. I don't have any expectation for them. They don't care about any of us. They don't. I mean, we're an endless supply of revenue. They're never going to get it wrong, even when they get it wrong, because it's the bottom line.

And I'm not an idiot. Like, I get all of those things. But when you have a week like you have, and Goodell's just standing there saying, sorry, we can't really do this. And then the lawyers from the victims in the investigation were like, no, we're telling you to go ahead and do it. We all know why he's not doing it.

You've covered this league a really long time. You were down there this week. What's the takeaway? Because I already know the answer of how little they care about what anyone seems to think about them as the 32 owners. But what about what anyone seems to think about them as the 32 owners. But like, what's the best way to talk about them and, and understanding like your, your,

your, what should be deeper understanding of this group of guys who've just been kind of spitting at us from the penthouse for a long time. I mean, it's like a crime family, right? Like seriously, like you look at it and it's like, I think a big piece of this Ryan is they all have skeletons in their closet. They don't want to be pulling skeletons out on each other. And they don't want to set the precedent of people taking each other's teams away.

Bottom line, if they set the precedent, we can take a team away from Dan Snyder. Well, I think there are probably other owners that would feel exposed by that. And even people look back at the Jerry Richardson thing I I think a lot of like people forget that like in that situation Jerry Richardson walked away on his own volition just decided you know what I'm I'm older I don't have heirs I you know like I I care a lot about the league and I don't want to cause everybody this trouble and I'm not making him a hero but like that was sort of it

you know it's just like he was walking away in shame. I mean, now they've run into the guy who just doesn't have any shame. You know what I mean? Like, so that's sort of, I think that's sort of where we are on this. And you know, I think as far as the way Roger addressed it,

like, would it be great if he would get up there and say, well, you know, like the guy writes my check and then we're not going to embarrass him. Like, yeah, it would be great if he would get up there and say, Well, the guy writes my check and we're not going to embarrass him. Yeah, it would be great if he would answer the question that way. Unfortunately, he has a team of PR people around him telling him that's the wrong thing to do. And I think that they feel like they can just run the clock out on this the same way they run the clock out on a lot of other things. And oh, by the way, I think a big part of the attitude

just on a day-to-day basis is let's get ourselves to Sunday and then everybody's talking about football again. There are so many times with Goodell where I feel like what you just said, I mean, how mad can you get at him when he's carrying out the... He's just getting thrown in traffic. Right. And then

it's like, well, that it should be something different. Do you think the 32 guys are going to hire someone that can actually really screw with them? No one would ever do that. If anyone ever ran a company or you had co-owners of another company to go, hey, let's hire somebody from the outside that can constantly give a shit,

it's an impossibility. It's just not going to ever happen. Right. And I think in, I mean, look, in this case, we have evidence too. And I wrote this this week, and I've written it a few times, but it's true. For as many times as we've been told, the owners are held to the highest standard. And the boss should always be held to a higher standard than everybody else. All you got to do is go on the internet, Ryan. I mean, Tom Brady, 250 pages on deflating footballs that was run by a federal investigator. It is there on the internet. All you have to do is Google it and you can find the full report. 150 pages on Richie Incognito and bullying.

I mean, basically, I don't want to make light of it, but more or less a middle school situation. And then Ray Rice, and that was a more serious case, but you get 100 pages on his domestic violence case. And there was never a follow-up investigation from the league on Jerry Richardson. There was no league-run investigation on Jim Irsay. And those were serious things that affected other people. And so the expectation that there was going to be a public report on this... I want a public report like everybody else. But I think based on the history, the expectation that we were going to get some sort of written report was probably silly. And beyond just that, I do think people are focusing on the emails a little too much.

You know what I mean? Would it be fun to dig through everybody's emails? Sure. We'd probably find some pretty interesting stuff in there. But if the idea of this is to really get to the bottom of what happened in Washington, well, I don't know that we really need the emails so much as we need a

written report that details not just the emails, but everything that happened in the interviews and text messages and everything else. Now, the biggest point is what you said. These 30 30s you guys don't want to set a precedent for all of a sudden being like well what's what's the floor what's the standard for taking a team away from another guy in this room and no one in that setting is ever going to group like hey you know what we do we need to start lowering the threshold of offenses to take away these money-making machines because no one's ever losing money on these teams. The next TV deal is going to be more ridiculous than the previous one.

I don't know when it ends, but I don't think it ends anytime soon. Traditional ratings can go down. Cuban was talking about this the other day on a podcast, but I've been saying it for years. It doesn't matter what your year-to-year numbers are. It matters what your share is. If you're still the only live game in town, that matters

more than anything else. You have all these competing brands. I wonder if somebody will just go after the NFL in a way that we've never seen it happen before. It might not be this deal. Maybe it's the next deal or whatever. All right, so let's talk some football stuff. That was a great game last night. I left that one going, you know, I really like Arizona.

Green Bay, after just a week one, what the hell was that thing? Looked about as strong as anyone in the league. By the way, did you get any insight into that week one into, all right, now we got it out of our system and the team they've become? Yeah. I think part of it, it was interesting having talks to people within the organization on just the importance of the offseason. And I think that there were a lot of teams that felt this way in week one. Losing the spring was a big deal. And the reason why wasn't just the amount of work that you lost. it was also that because of that

teams were tinkering with different approaches on how to handle training camp right like because you don't want to go out there and get your guys hurt yet you're you're missing like nine weeks of ramp up you know so everybody was approaching training camp a little bit differently everybody was approaching the pre-season games a little bit differently and um was approaching the preseason games a little bit differently. And I talked to Matt LaFleur about it and I asked him, this was a couple of weeks ago. And he said, yeah, I look back at that now and I view it as like, it looked on tape like a first preseason game.

When you watched our starters play, you saw the Saints look like they were in regular season mode. And we looked like a team that was just playing his first preseason game. And he's like, I think part of that is a result of us not playing anyone in the preseason. And us maybe being a little more careful

and ramping guys up because we've got a more veteran team. And I thought that was actually a really interesting explanation. So I think LeFleur has done a lot of things right. But it was interesting to see him say, kind of like, you know, say that one was sort of on me and but you know, like they were able to turn it around really, really fast. You remember they, the second game, I thought that was a real gut check. I mean, they were behind at halftime to the Lions for the second game,

you know? And since then it's just been, I mean, they've just taken off. Yeah, no, they, they absolutely have. And I, look, I made a joke about it and I they've just taken off. Yeah, no, they absolutely have. And I made a joke about it, and I've made this joke a few times, but I think the number, let me double check it. I think since the start of 2019, the Packers are 33-7. That's the best in the NFL. And you've got Rodgers screaming about the franchise, the organization, leadership decisions. Like, you know, again, before we knew everything about the Deshaun Watson deal,

like there was real NFL fan sympathy for Deshaun Watson's football situation. And yet Rodgers is 33-7 with this group. And I can't help, I can't get over it. I can't get over it because I go, you actually have a great situation. Okay, the Packers didn't tell you the truth about every single thing. I know that you think that you should be allowed to be – you want a standard around you that's higher than almost any other player in the league, and you deserve it because you're that great.

But why do you think you have it so bad? I know. Is this real like we're seeing this final season for a team that goes into arizona wins that game against a really good football team missing their top three receiving options the tight end goes down on top of everything else and kyler looks like he's going to come back and win this game and yet you have a super bowl contender here brayer and he's still is this still how he feels? It's crazy. I think that there, so I do think that there's

like a, I think there were quarterbacks that became intoxicated by what happened in Tampa last year. And I think there are these guys that have had this in their head for a while. Like, I want the whole operation centered around me. But like, this is the first time it's actually

worked where like somebody went somewhere and Tampa... It's not like they didn't have the foundation of the team. But he went there and now all of a sudden became about his timeline, about who he wanted on the team, about being aggressive and acting on his timeline. And I think other quarterbacks looked at that and like, alright, not only do I want that, that's what I'm competing against now. And so with some of these guys, I think it's in a way, I guess the LeBron-ization of the NFL, it was, I want that. I want what he has. And if I go somewhere else, that team is going to be compelled to build around me that way. I think that sort of got in Aaron's head along with all the other stuff that was going on, you know, the grudge from the way that the communication worked in draft week in 2020

in regards to Jordan Love. And he got the idea, if I go somewhere else, it's going to be centered completely on me. And I think through that, he lost sight of just how good he has it. And like you said, that's a damn good situation. And it's a stable organization. You look at the roster, I think it's still a top five or six roster in the NFL. He was the MVP of the league last year. And yeah, they didn't get over the top. But they're really close. And there's a couple of good results, I think, came from this. Number one, they are acting more aggressively. They are taking advantage of opportunities. They signed Whitney Merciless and Jalen Smith in season. They went and got Randall Cobb. So I think that's number one is that they

are working on his timeline now. So in a way, it got them to do that. Number two, I think Matt LaFleur, his ability to manage this, the emotional intelligence he's had in managing this thing and going through this thing the way that he has and being able to balance his relationships with his bosses in the front office and then his quarterback who were at odds with each other, I think he did a great job. Just being able to tow that line through the spring and then be the point man when Rodgers came back in the summer to make sure that Rodgers was in position to perform in the fall. And you can even see it. And I think that this is such a key thing here,

Ryan, you can even see it with how he handled Randall Cobb. Cause I think there are a lot of other coaches in the NFL where when a quarterback forced a guy onto the roster like that, right. And said, I want him go get him. Now there are a lot of coaches in the NFL who would feel threatened by that.

And that guy would come in and maybe the would feel threatened by that. And that guy would come in and maybe the coach would bury that guy or give that guy a hard time. LaFleur did the opposite. Randall Cobb ain't what he used to be. But Matt knew Aaron loves this guy. Aaron trusts this guy. So instead of just testing this guy and seeing if he's done, let's see what we can get out of him. And it turns out they got a lot out of him, even though he isn't the same guys before. And what is the byproduct of that? A happier quarterback. So I think you add all that up and at least they should have a shot, I think, at keeping him beyond this year. And even that moment in Chicago,

I don't know if you took it this way, but it was almost like there was a school pride. You know what I mean? When he said, I own you. That wasn't just, I own you. That's the Packers own you. So I thought that moment, if he does wind up staying in Green Bay beyond this year, I think we'll probably look back at that as sort of a flashpoint where it's like, this guy's still a Packer. Yeah, I mean, he's doing the on-field.

I don't know what... That game was so much fun. I didn't turn it off. I was writing out some notes for today's show, but I go, he's doing the on-field. I don't know what, that game was so much fun, like I didn't turn it off. Like I was writing out some notes for today's show, but I go, I want to keep all this on, and I watch his post-game with EA, and he's got this smile on his face, although I don't know what the hell he got into this off-season. He looks like he's

aged 10 years. His face, I don't know, his face treatment is the opposite. And the hair is like a little, yeah. Yeah, although Brady, I think, has had some work done. So that's why Brady looks so fresh and rejuvenated all the time. That's just the theory. I have no... Well, I mean, somebody

brought up somebody, like, somebody actually brought up like a weird thing that's made it hard for me to look at Brady the same way. It's like when he talks, it's like only his mouth moving. And I'm like, ah. Like, then I start to watch him a little bit. It's like... You know what? I'm not comfortable. I'm not comfortable with this anymore so i just let's stop talking about it because i don't want to do that to tom uh but you know rogers has this joy and he's looking

around and the packers fans who are just incredible that place is you know i don't know what the ratio was but they were loud as hell and they hung out and he's pointing at him he's looking at him and he's telling ea's like i'm gonna go and he's telling EA, he's like, I'm going to go. And we're going to enjoy this one man on the plane ride back. And you go, this is somebody who's, who's taking it in, not taking it for granted these last few weeks. Although is this why he is emotional? Because he's already decided is he, you know, he's a very stubborn,

he's a very prideful guy, but I love what you said on this. So let's keep it moving here. Cause I've talked too much a lot on this hit because as you talk about the NBA power play for the quarterbacks here, now that Seattle looks like a mess, I think the Russell Wilson thing is going to get – I think that was his, hey, can I do this and have people not hate me? And it's like, ooh, this is tough.

I think he's going to try it again. And I don't know that it's because of the seattle roster i've said this throughout it i think it's a lot of like russell and and his wife want to be like a jay-z beyonce couple like and i'm serious i whatever they want to create a version of of their power that i don't think they see long term in seattle yeah and those were all, I mean, somebody pointed out to me like the teams that was, I mean, how is it put? Like,

he's not asking for a trade, but if he did ask for a trade, this is what exactly what it was. It's like, I don't want to trade, but if you were going to trade me, here's 14, which I don't know if that's happened in any sport before.

Maybe it has, but it was sort of an interesting strategy. Like one thing that, you know, somebody who is connected to all this mentioned was like how platform played into every one of the places. Raiders, I think it was Raiders,

Cowboys, Chicago. Yeah. I mean like platform, platform played into every single one of the teams. It wasn't so much football. It was, how can I elevate myself?

And I think, you know, it's interesting because there were three things he wanted from Seattle coming into the year. And he got two of the three. He wanted a big offensive line piece. They went out and got Gabe Jackson. He wanted input into where the offense was going. He had input into them hiring Shane Waldron from the Rams as the offensive coordinator. And then the third piece, he wanted more of a say in the organization and he wanted like sort of a seat at the table.

And that's where Pete and John sort of drew the line. And, you know, I, I think one of the things in the off season that a lot of people took note of in inside the league was how John Schneider showed up at Trey Lance's pro day. And it seems like a little thing,

but if you go back to the history of this and you know, the history of this, the situation between the team and the player, a lot of this was precipitated when John Schneider showed up at Josh Allen's pro day at Wyoming three years ago. So if you were committed to walking around on eggshells and like not pissing off your quarterback, wouldn't you not, wouldn't you say, you know what? I'm going to send my scouts to Trey Lance's pro day. So it's just sort of like...

I think there was a clear drawing of the line there. And a couple months after that, when Russell agreed to come back in, it was... This is a band-aid. And everybody agreed that. We'll revisit it after the year. This is a band-aid.

We're all in for 2021. Let's try to make the most of this. And then we'll talk in January or February about where we are going forward. And I know one of Russell's big things was at the end of last year, this is where I kick off the second phase of my career and I'm going to evaluate everything

the way I do everything and everything else. And a big part of that is his personal legacy. And I think a big part of how he handles coming out of this year is going to be not just where can I have team success, but where am I going to be set up to have individual success? So one day, 10, 15 years down the line, I'm wearing a gold jacket. Well, he's going to get the gold jacket no matter what. Well, you know what I mean.

Like, oh, climb on that list, I guess is what I'm saying. The pro day thing does nothing for me. You would know better than I would the history of the top decision maker visiting while they have a franchise incumbent who's still in his prime. But I mean, if that's the standard of you getting upset and feeling disrespected. Well, you've seen how sensitive these guys are, though. Yeah, but that's not that weird for a bunch of guys to be at pro days

knowing they have no chance. I mean, think about some of the NBA draft workouts where you're like, you're bringing in this guy. I'm like, yeah, I'm just going to get my information on him. I mean, these guys are obsessed with information. They're obsessed with evaluation. It's their entire life. All they do is evaluate things. And so, yes, you're right that people can be sensitive with it, but I don't know.

That one's different. Okay, so while we're on this, because we're kind of projecting a little bit with the QB landscape, the market of it, which I could update literally every week because I just enjoy talking about it. How does Deshaun Watson fit in? Because I know you've been talking about that this week as well. Yeah, well, obviously, as we record this,

what, four days until the trade deadline. So, you know, I think really there are three parties when it comes to whether or not Deshaun Watson can be traded. It's Watson himself, the owner of Cal McNair and the GM Nick Casario. Watson wants out, McNair wants him out of there. Nick Casario is the one who's sort of holding the cards here. I think he's right to think this way, that whatever happens, whatever he gets back for Deshaun Watson, and whatever he does with that return is going to define his time as the general manager in Houston, period.

End of story. So he can't take 50 cents on the dollar. And I think you have to consider here, what do the Texans lose by waiting? If they wait, they'll know where the draft pick they have coming back sits. They won't be sending to a team where the draft pick they have coming back sits right they won't be sending to him to a team where the draft pick is going to be devalued because he's going to play

the rest of the year they will probably have more suitors maybe the Giants would be involved maybe the Steelers would be involved maybe the Saints would be involved there will be more suitors by definition maybe there's more clarity from the league or in the legal situation. I mean, barring his legal situation getting worse, there's... You can say in almost every way, there's gonna be a better market for him in February or March. And I guess the downside is that you have to hold him

for the rest of the year on your roster. But I don't feel like you've already weathered the storm when it comes to that. You've already gone through the awkwardness of having a guy making that much money, not playing, coming in and out of your building every day. So I just think Nick Casario is in a spot right now where he feels comfortable.

And if somebody doesn't come with the return that he wants and that he set for him, he's willing to sit on him for the rest of the year. The Dolphins have been talking to them and I think they'll continue to talk to them up to the deadline or if a deal's done. The Panthers hadn't talked to them in a couple months, checked in this week, then backed right off.

The Broncos and Eagles have monitored the situation, but they haven't been as active. So, you know, it'll be interesting to see which way this goes because I don't think Nick is under any... I think the owner would like to have him out of there. I think Watson wants out of there. I just, you know, I don't think Nick's in any rush to do it

because, you know, like he's resolved that I'm going to get the most I can out of the most valuable asset in my building. Yeah, and look, that's fair. I mean, this isn't Nick's fault, and he's not supposed to just give away the asset for nothing to prove a point and then somebody else just goes ahead and grabs him as we still wait this all out.

Do you think you'd have any idea, again, the suitor ranking here? Because I always feel like whoever brings him in is going to deal with a ton of stuff even if we have it resolved, all right, with Deshaun. Right. But I can see certain franchises getting away with it more because of their own branding i think geographically it'll matter too but if it were pittsburgh i could just see

somebody on tv saying uh you know pittsburgh just stable ownership stable front office a lot of stability they'll be able to handle this but it's like no they just want an awesome quarterback right it's not as the right eagles will get up there and say like we did it with michael vick so yeah i mean i i can see what you're saying there right right and i i'm sure belichick's maddie can't trade for him now well maybe he could i mean i don't i don't think crap i i don't think i don't think he would. But you even think about some of the other teams, like Washington, right? They're coaches like Watson. I don't think they can do it

because of everything that's happened in their building the last 20 years, right? If anything, Snyder would be like, why do I haven't cared for 20 years? Yeah, maybe double. I don't know. Why do I care now? That'd be a very weird double down but i

yeah i mean i i think you're right though to think that way and that different organizations are dealing with different circumstances and the parts of the country they're in certainly play into it um yeah i certainly think like the dolphins would the dolphins are where he wants to go and so i you know that's a piece of it. But, um, yeah, I, I look at them and see like if, if they don't make the playoffs this year and they're one in six right now, they play at Buffalo this week. So likely one in seven coming out of this year, then Chris Greer and Brian Flores will have gone through three years without having made the playoffs. And then you're going into year four, if you make it to year four, and I think they will,

if you make it to year four now, I think they will, if you make it to year four, now everyone's job's on the line. And the question becomes, are you willing to stake your job to Tua Tungvaluwa? And I think he's shown some promise. I think he's been better the last couple weeks. But are you willing to stake your job

to Tua Tungvaluwa? And I think that's part of the reason why right now they're looking at it and saying, you know, some of the mistakes we've made the last couple of years, if we have a quarterback like Deshaun Watson, maybe we can erase some of those mistakes. Anything else we need to know transactionally here? Yeah, I think it's, you know, like with the trade deadline coming up in a few days, I think we've got, I think we're going to have more minor moves. Now, you're going to hear some names out there

that are recognizable. Darius Slayton and Evan Ingram from the Giants. Hayden Hurst is a phone caller too. Falcons tight end. Devontae Parker from the Dolphins could be moved. A couple of DBs. AJ Boye, the Panthers have taken a couple calls on him, Kyle Fuller from the Broncos. I think what you're going to find is it's going to be

quiet this year because cap space around the league is so low. And I think right now it's 21 of the 32 teams have less than $5 million in cap space. And yeah, you can move money around. But the thing is, because the cap went down this year, cap space. And yeah, you can move money around. But the thing is, because the cap went down this year, so many teams, especially the contenders, have mortgaged so many of their contracts already that they don't have much more wiggle room to move stuff around. So I think it's going to be relatively quiet. And yeah, I think if Deshaun makes it past Tuesday and he's still a Texan, it's going to set up for a really, really fascinating 2022 with, I think, and you follow this closely, Ryan, you know,

a group of college quarterbacks that just hasn't been great. And I don't know that there's any surefire first rounder in that group. And, you know, potentially a very, very rich veteran quarterback market with guys like Rogers, Wilson and Watson potentially out there. Let's finish it then on your Ohio State Buckeyes. Are you of the belief that this team has turned it around with dominant performances against Akron, Rutgers, Maryland, and Indiana?

I'm very confident in the offense. I think Stroud's look great. I mean, Stroud, the way he's throwing the ball, I mean, it's an advertisement for Ryan Day and his offense. After what they were able to get out of Dwayne Haskins and Justin Fields the last three years, and now you see this, it feels like a continuation of that.

The two receivers might be first-round picks. The running back might be the best player on the offense, and the line's great. It's going to come down to the defense and whether or not the defense is really fixed. They've done a nice job of kind of settling things down over there. The amount of scheme

change in season has been pretty staggering though. So I'll be interested to see as they play the Penn State, the Michigan State, the Michigans, if some of that stuff holds up. You know what I mean? Because they've got athletes over there, no question. I'm just going to be interested to see what it looks like when their defense is tested a little bit more.

Full faith in the offense. I think the offense is 100% a national championship offense, and I would love to see the offense play against Georgia's defense. I think those are probably the top two units, period, in the country. It's going to come down to just how much better the defense really is and whether or not the improvement of the last month is real. The way Penn State's going on offense, that's even with Clifford back. You may not know.

You might not see much. Is it playing against Kenneth Walker and Michigan State? I mean, you know, so is it playing against Kenneth Walker and Michigan State? Is it? I mean, even like even the if you can't stop a running back, if a running back destroys you defensively, it just doesn't happen anymore. That's what that's what happened against Oregon, though. I see. Look, I thought Anthony Brown was like the best version I've ever seen of him for about three quarters. That's because that's because like three run plays were like like it was like they were like money plays like mad 97 no that was like tight boundary

yeah the corner out to like antonio freeman and like uh in mad 98 yeah that was always my move was i'd always hot route the slot guy and i yeah you got like the little swing route out, like the little swing route out in the slot. I'd have the other guy take it to the boundary to try to pull anything over, and I could always get the seam guy. It wasn't even a post, but he would stay inside enough. It was just a perfect little, but you have to change the route every time.

And the thing is that then you had to start like doing dummy hot routes if you were playing somebody because they would figure out like, oh, you just you just hot route they just go like station somebody over there yeah but then you got a guy with a madden controller trying to play seriously one-on-one defense against a route with a linebacker and you're backpedaling and trying to like cut off the throw that that was a level that was kind of like i remember with with hockey which was still the best 94 was still the greatest game ever made and once it was you could control your own goalie guys started sliding the goalie across for the drive

buys yeah and then there was a back and forth move that got everybody at first yeah that was 93 94 yeah the inside deke and then you finish on the outside. Right. Once you controlled the goalie, there was a better way of like the deke didn't work as well. And you started doing more drive-bys. And then sometimes guys would out like if you showed up to another house, they're like, oh, you do drive-bys. Like we don't allow that in the house. It's like taking the Blackhawks. You can't do it. And like, okay, fine.

No problem. I just never forget the first time a guy did it to me so i'm i'm i'm defending the drive by i goalie up i i slide with him you know i'm going with him and he brought the drive by to one time it to a guy at the point slap shot in waiting for my goalie to move out of the way and i went oh wow i'm like well that's where you just tip your hat right yeah well then that that became the thing because then you decided to start like fake pretend you were going with the drive by goalied up and then you come back right yeah and i remember being like okay that's it's basically it's what real athletes do they

adapt and they counter the counter that's right that's right that's right i feel like i feel like we even see elements of it in the way guys coach today you know what i mean like because like all these guys are like our age now so like all these like i feel like i feel there are certain things like even like clock management like i don't know any how anybody our age like who's a football coach would screw up a two-minute situation anymore because i've been running two-minute offenses i was like eight years old you know what i mean i still to this day i remember getting back in early 20s getting back from the bars and my good friend out of boston noah luskin he was like all right let's

fire up madden and i was, but you don't really know what you're going to do. You don't know what you're doing, right? And he was like, just give me the Ravens. It was right after the Ravens. He was like, give me the Ravens defense. I'll at least be able to be a little competitive even though I haven't played.

And the reason I'll never forget this matchup was because he didn't quite know what he was doing and didn't have go-tos because it's been a while. He had an eight-minute drive on five-minute quarters. So he got the ball on kickoff and his possession didn't end until two minutes left in the half. And I've never seen anything like it.

He ran an eight-minute offense on Madden and he scored. And he wasn't necessarily trying to do it, but once he realized he was doing it, then he was like, I'm just going to take the ball out of Rosillo's hands here here it's the only way i can compete i mean like that's that's clock management right there i mean i don't know that's eight minutes one possession on a video game that's genius absolutely genius we uh yeah i mean i'm almost

embarrassed to admit this but like one of our moves coming back from the bars um would be to uh i had my one buddy who was a real degenerate. And he came up with the idea that we would just let the computer play and gamble on the games. NCAA and Madden. When we get back from the bars, we'd throw on like... Alright, let's throw on USC Notre Dame. And we put a point spread on it and then bet on it.

And it was actually wildly entertaining. Yeah, I could totally see that. I know it was bad for me in the early 2000s when um i didn't have any money so it was a big source of entertainment but i wasn't i was just simulating 20 seasons deep i wasn't even i didn't even care anymore you know i would draft you know jj smith safety, Fresno State. And I would be so proud by his fifth year when he's making Pro Bowls and had like a 98 awareness rating. I'm like, this second rounder from Fresno, I knew it. I love Dynasty Mode and NCAA because I thought the recruiting was great.

And then you dress them up, you give them the right face mask, get the visor on them, the cowboy collar. Get your Mike Linebacker wearing a single digit. So after a couple recruiting classes, they all look like a bunch of bad-ass. It just looks like you've got this team full of Bosworths

out there. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. But taller, but they're still quick. Because Van Pelt used to do that. I mean, nobody... I'll put Van Pelt as a one seed of guys who spent way too much time as an adult recruiting fictional people for a video game. Because he was like, like, like there were always like, you'd recruit a guy who was like a five star, but he had like a bad name. So you'd have to change the name to make them sound cooler.

I don't know. I just remember he made Stanford Steve, but he did Maryland franchises and he would come into work every week or so. And he'd be like, or, you know, however long it took him to do the season. And I think he could probably bang out close to a season in a week because he was getting back from sports center. He's a night owl. He'd stay up all night. And then he'd come to the morning. I think there was a moment where he's like, I'm going to get a family. I'm going to get a family because this is insane how old I am and that I'm still doing this every single night. But he'd come in legitimately like bummed out. He's like, I fucking lost Stanford Steve to Penn State again. Or he's like, I lost because I was like, well, because you're Maryland. I'm like, you got it. You got to put him in your backyard. He goes, I put him in my backyard and he goes to Penn State because of Maryland or he'll go to, you know,

like sometimes I'll lose an Ohio State or whatever. He's like, I got to keep winning. He's like, I just got to raise the profile of the program. And then that way I can lock in Stanford. When he got Stanford Steve to sign one season, happiest I've ever seen him. All right, we're done. I'm sorry.

Right up the birth of his kids. Yeah. He came in early that day. I was like, guys, closed him. All right. Thank you very much. Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. I was like, guys, closed them. All right. Thank you very much. Awesome. Thanks, Ryan. I appreciate you having me. I always like the beginning of everybody's story. So I'm sure

you've had to tell this and I've read a bunch of your interviews, you know, go to Harvard to study something and you end up writing for Lampoon. So what was that like for you? Ryan, you do your research. I appreciate it, man. Listening to other interviews, I'm sorry you had to do that. No, it was good. You got some rapid fire ones in there. You started talking about how people were trashing Citizen Kane and you were like, it was a good way to, and somebody who does something that's in the public eye, however they consume it, unless you were totally full of shit, I thought your answer about criticism was

really good. Well, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. At least I talked fast. You got through the interviews pretty fast. Now. Yeah, it was it was weird, man. I definitely grew up in Riverside, California, which is not too far from L.A., but spiritually very, very different. You know, people didn't necessarily go into this industry. And I didn't know anyone in entertainment. You know, my parents are immigrants and,

you know, my mom's a high school teacher. My dad was an OBGYN. And so I was, you know, my mom's a high school teacher. My dad's a, was an OBGYN. And so I was, you know, I always loved television and film. Always, always, you know, it was Back to the Future, Jurassic Park, and a lot of comedy, you know, Seinfeld, Simpsons, SNL, all that stuff. And, but I had no, I inkling this was a job. And like you said, I went to college and I went to Harvard and I majored in biology. And, you definitely a classic Asian-American kid pre-professional path to maybe being a doctor or a lawyer or a businessman. Those are pretty much your only options. Otherwise, your parents are going to be very disappointed. I started playing in a punk rock band. I loved punk rock. And I listened to Scott in high school because I was a Southern California kid. And so I did that. And I started writing for this magazine, like you said, the Harvard Lampoon, which, yeah, it's a really weird place. And I didn't know what it was till I got to school. And it's kind of hard to get on. And you just got to write a bunch

of comedy pieces. It's very, very nerdy. And it's full of outcasts. It's like if you go to Harvard, like it's already... Harvard's already like kind of a school of dorks, right? It's like nerds, right? But it's almost like the outcast among the outcasts. But it was really fun. And Conan O'Brien wrote for it and a bunch of people. And I did his podcast a couple weeks ago. And we talked about being on staff there and what it was like and how it changed over the years. So that really gave me sort of the confidence slash insanity to move out to LA and be unemployed and just try to write scripts and get a job. And so that was the beginning for me. Yeah. And now was Carson Daly the first paid deal? Absolutely. Yeah. It was, it was literally like my first meeting ever was with Jay Leno for the

Tonight Show when I was like 20. And I didn't get that job. I was like, but I'm doing great. I got a meeting with The Tonight Show. Okay, give me the story you tell about sitting down with Leno and then not. Like the difference between, because anybody that's ever pitched anything, there's like two different types of people. The person that thinks they killed every fucking pitch ever. Yeah.

And then the person who thinks they have to pack up their house after every meeting. I'm the former for better or for worse. I feel like everything's, I'm a very optimistic person. I like very positive. And like, even when shit goes bad, I'm like, you know, there's a silver lining here. It's like, shut the fuck up, man. But, but, uh, no, I, I, I honestly, I didn't have an agent or anything. I moved out to LA. I was living in an apartment with my friend. I, you know, we're splitting the rent. I was paying 600 bucks a month. I lived across from a ride in on Fairfax. And suddenly this agent who had hip pocketed me,

you know, this is what they call hip pocketing. He's like, they're just blasting your stuff out to everybody just in case they get a bite. And then if you get a job, suddenly they're your agent. You know, they're not really your agent unless you get a job. So I had this smaller agent, you know, sent my stuff and it got somehow to the Tonight Show, just a packet of like jokes. And it happened to be a Letterman

packet. Cause I actually watched more Letterman than, than, than, than Leno. So anyway, I got this meeting with, with, with Leno and his head writer. And he's like, yeah, we're like looking for some, some young blood. And like, you know, your, your packet was funny and, and, and, and all this stuff. So meeting went, I thought it went fine. I, you know, it packet was funny and and and all this stuff so meeting went i thought it went fine i you know it's whatever it's very green and at the end of the meeting leno's like it's just just just to just to be clear how old are you i'm like i'm 20 and he's like i'm not gonna hire you man my youngest writer's 53 or whatever he's like come back in five years we want some young blood 40s yeah exactly right 49 it's's like, we want, we want it. Cause you graduated what early or were you just young for your age in class? I went to college a year early because I, the high school

I went to, it was kind of a big public high school, but I was kind of, you know, moved ahead in some stuff. So I just kind of ran out of classes. So I was like, I'll just apply to a bunch of colleges. And, and, and I got in. So I went to high college young and then I graduated young. But after that meeting, I called this fake agent of mine and was like, I thought it went great. He said, I definitely didn't get the job. He's like, well, then it didn't go so great. But I was optimistic. I was like, well, I got a meeting, whatever. And then I had nothing for at least a year, year and a half, something like that, just trying to get by and whatever. And then my first job, like you said, was Carson Daly in New York. So I went to Carson Daly, which was a 1.30 a.m. talk show. So instead of the 11.31, I got to

work on the 1.30 a.m. one, but it was really fun. It was a good place for like a 22-year-old. Again, very lucky to work as a writer on any show, to be honest. So tell me the difference between whether it's you're writing an episode of Parks or the parents episode that you wrote with the z's who you know i want to talk about that a little bit yeah at some point um but i imagine you know whatever you're working on pilots features and then writing for a late night show like how different are those beats it's it's it's very very different it's almost like boot camp right it's like i've been fortunate to work on a huge variety of stuff like i started

on a again 1 30 a.m late night. I worked on South park for a little bit as animated show. And, um, then parks and rec is kind of a mockumentary. And then master of none was kind of like, well, there's a little bit of social commentary, you know, then I directed a movie that was a drama. So it's all, you know, they're very different. Like all of those are very different. And, and especially between late night and sort of sketch and then scripted. So when I started on Parks and Rec, I was really just learning, totally learning. I was a baby writer. You start from late night, which was a lot more similar to what we did on The Lampoon, which is just very, very joke heavy. you know, joke heavy, you know, I would come in and write 30 monologue jokes. And I know the people for Fallon or whoever come in and write a hundred, if you're a monologue writer, like that seems like a real grind. It's really tough, but we got to also, you know, write sketches and produce bits and act in them and edit them and cast them and all that stuff. And so it was kind of a baby version

of being on one of those late night shows or SNL or whatever, you know, and no one was watching because it was one 30 and Carson was a super sweet boss. So we just kind of, it was almost inmates running the asylum. You know, most of those shows have 20 writers. We had three or four. And so we were just kind of doing our own thing. And then when I got to Parks and Rec, I had to learn about story, you know, and it turns out, you know, when you're a kid or when you're a college student or whatever, just starting out, I think you think about comedy a lot and you think about joke density and what's funny, honestly, and trying to make your friends laugh. And that's all really important. And then I think when it comes to building a show or writing a movie or anything like that, you start learning about story structure and characters and

motivations and all of those aspects that I had no idea about. And I was fortunate to get to work with Mike Schur and Greg Daniels. And before that, you know, Trey Parker, Matt Stone, very briefly, just, you know, listening to those guys who know what they're doing and learning from them and building a show from scratch

is very, very difficult. There's a lot of ingredients and it's more than just comedy. You know, there's shows that are just pure comedy, right? So if you look at, you know, I don't know, 30 Rock or Seinfeld, they're very much more pure comedy, although there's story to those shows too. But if you look at The Office or Parks, it's very much slow over time. You're building characters, you're building worlds, you're building relationships. And that's all stuff I had to and and hopefully learned a little bit of from those guys yeah the office origin and you know like everybody loved the first one and then i i love this one and i love what greg daniels did i love what michael schur did and then you know sure it's kind of hey all right figure it out with parks and rec and and even office itself needed to find its own identity even though it's based on the exact same show uh how much of that

was the process and again i know you did 16 episodes so i don't know perfectly your timeline and what your involvement was but i imagine even if you weren't there at the beginning there's the carryover of okay yes we know with the camera and and the approach how similar this is but we need to now find our own identity which always feels like in the most successful shows it's even if the show was good the first two seasons it always feels like when it really pops is like season three and season four. I agree.

And that's why it's so tough with shows now, because you're expected with the first season to be amazing. Otherwise you get thrown by the wayside, right? And those shows, we had the luxury of developing, you know, it was, you know, when we started on Parks, we had a while to find our footing. And watching the episodes again with Rob, you forget a lot of this stuff, man. It was 12 years ago, 11 years ago, whatever it was. And it just makes me relive all of those moments in the writer's room when it was not obvious who the characters were. You have to just really grind it out and figure it out kind of as you go.

Some of these shows, they come out fully formed and they're perfect from the pilot on. But with those shows and the way those guys write, you write to your actor's strengths, you write towards the writer's strengths, you write towards what seems to be working in the show. And that's kind of the luxury in some ways of those network shows is the seasons are so

long. That's also the difficulty, right? You're writing as you're shooting and editing. That's really hard, but you get feedback. You're watching the first five episodes. You're watching the first eight episodes. And in the case of Parks, you're watching the first season. You see six episodes and you see the evolution of the show, not just from season one to two, but from the pilot to even episode six of that season. If you watch episode six, it's called Rock Show, which we're actually, you know,

we just did with Chris Pratt. Like, it's so different from the pilot. And that's over the course of six episodes. And then you'll see, you know, in season two, it's like, oh, it's kind of becomes a show people recognize, which is much faster,

a little sillier, and much more about the town than just this workplace, which is all kind of a little sillier and much more about the town than just this workplace, which is all kinds of things that differentiated it from the office, which obviously Mike and Greg had worked on, but the show found its own voice and it's very different. And it's a much different tone in some ways, even though the camera shooting style is similar. It is tonally. It is very different. I still think, and you've done a good job of explaining this for people where office always kind of had, me growing up watching shows in the 80s, different strokes always had a lesson at the end, which sounds stupid.

But it was like, hey, silver spoons can't end unless we've all learned something here. And yet, there was always a Michael Scott element to the Office where there was a lesson, you know, and all the other stuff. And the same thing with Leslie, which is what I think is similar. But you're right. It's softer. It's warmer. You know, I think The Office, which I do like, is how harsh it can be at times and blunt. Parks and Rec was never a blunt object as much.

Absolutely. It became so optimistic. And I think that's one of the reasons I really loved writing for it because as I mentioned, I'm a really fucking optimistic person. So, you know, it really kind of fit. And that comes from Mike, right? So Mike kind of became

the sole showrunner after a while. And he always has such a positive view in his shows. And his shows are funny, but they're also really warm and really heartfelt and they're about people connecting and i think that's one thing mike and i have in common you know as people and as as showrunners that's just the direction we lean towards and that's why parks kind of you know when he was running that show kind of became what

it was and but you're right like the whole thing about you know you're joking about silver spoons or growing pains or whatever it is like you know the simple version. But honestly, it's very cyclical. You had that and then you had the 90s, very cynical, Seinfeld, there's no lessons. They said no hugging, no learning. And then we went that direction. We were cynical. And then there was a reaction to that. It's like, well, what if we're sick of that and it's not the 90s anymore. I feel like it's like fashion, right? It's like you get skinny jeans and then you go big jeans. And we're going back to big jeans now, right? It's like we're going back to wide leg jeans. And because people want to rebel against what became before. So I think that happens with all genres, comedy included. You mentioned something too about speed. Because if you go back and watch any early Seinfeld, I'm like, I like this.

I think this is the slowest it's molasses show and i don't think parks and recs certainly wasn't slow like that but the pace of it the pace of it picks up and i guess like okay so you're doing the stuff with rob lowe that we mentioned at the top parks and recollection the podcast that's out yeah i mean you're directing a couple of these episodes right you're writing a bunch of these how weird is it for you to now binge it consume it like how did you let me let me ask it this way now as i finally figured out what i want to fucking ask you um how did you watch the shows when you were working on it or did you uh i actually would the here's the thing like you're so

in it and you're're there's so many episodes so it's almost foreign to me now because all the shows I work on now we do 10 a year or 8 a year or even

Master of None last season we did 5 episodes and like during Parks and Rec the heat of that one year we did 30 and if you're doing 30 episodes of a show

you can't even people are you can't catch your breath you're at work late you're doing 30 episodes of a show, you can't even, people are, you can't catch your breath. You're at work late, you're working on weekends. I still can't fathom how we did that. Can you, in the middle of this answer, give us a timeline of what a 30 episode work season is like? Give me how many days in a row in, out of the office. Give us a sense of how long that work schedule was. Absolutely. So that was basically season two was 24 episodes long.

And then Amy Poehler got pregnant. And NBC was like, we need six more because we know you're going to miss some time. You're going to be massively pregnant. So shoot six more at the end of season two. Those will be the first six of season three. By the way, the kicker was season three, they pushed us to mid-season.

So we didn't need to do that anyway. And no one was happy about that. but we did 30 in a row. And there's no days off because you basically, you do a little pre-writing session. It's a month or two of let's get as far ahead as possible, so let's write four, five episodes. Hopefully, you get the, I mean, maybe you get that done. You plan out the arc for the whole season.

You figure out what all the characters are doing throughout the season, and then you're that done. You plan out the arc for the whole season. You figure out what all the characters are doing throughout the season. And then you're in it. And then suddenly the machine grinds up those scripts and it's like, oh shit, we've shot four of those and now we're only one ahead or we're two ahead and we're doing a table read. Oh, the table read didn't go that well. You know, you do the table read,

four days before you shoot or three days. Uh-oh, we have to rewrite that. That chewed up more of our lead time. And then suddenly you're like, you're writing for next week's episode or whatever, right? You hope you have them coming in. And that was actually a very well-run show.

Mike is a really great showrunner. So we were organized enough such that it was never like we're writing scenes for that day. But I've heard about that happening on other shows. We're like, oh God, we're so far behind. Let's get some pages into actor X now so that they can shoot the scene. That has happened before and that is a true nightmare. But it's really the showrunner is really the nightmare job on that show. For me as a writer,

I come in, I help the showrunner and I do the best I can. I might write drafts or whatever, but the showrunner is not only writing all the scripts or doing passes on them. might write drafts or whatever. But the showrunner is not only writing all the scripts or going doing passes on them. He or she is also sometimes on set, you know, for shows that I do now I'm on set for everything. I'm directing some of them as well. And I'm also editing, right? So we're also like you're at your, so you're editing, you're getting notes from the studio, the network, your production company, maybe your star, they're all giving you notes on the scripts, on the outlines, on the edits. You're also shooting as this is going, which as you guys know, and IATSE is about to strike potentially, those days are 14, 15 hours.

So there's a million places for you to be and not making this job sound very stressful, which it is. But man, take that and multiply it, go to 30 episodes a year. That's when you're like, oh, there's no time off. And then maybe, maybe if you have a 22-episode season or something, you'll get a break at the end of the season. And then you'll take a month or two off maybe and then get into the next season.

But there's no respite for a network show. That's a world that I haven't been in in a while. I'm like, me and Aziz or me and Matt Hubbard and Maya Rudolph when we do a show, it's like, let's do 10. Let's do 10. And by the way, that's as big as a movie in some ways, because, you know, a 10 episode, even if it's a half hour show, that might be a 60, 70 day shoot. That's longer than

that's like a Marvel movie. I mean, like, that's like, that's a long time. So, um, you know, there's, there's, it's, I don't want to make it sound like it's a hard job. It's, it's a really fun job and it's a really, it's a huge privilege to get to do. But there's a lot of work to be done when you're doing a show. Yeah, I don't think people understand the amount of time that's in a room. One of my oldest friends, Bill Callahan, who was on Spin City, he was on Scrubs with Bill Lawrence.

I was at a birthday party for him not that long ago. It was funny because everybody gave up and gave toast. It was like half a table of comedy writers. I would have paid money to watch it if i didn't know anyone there and yeah it's i think people can always like turn on tv and again when i grew up it was very formulaic it was like set up set up laugh track set up set up laugh track and you know i don't think a lot of comedy people grow up going that's exactly what i want to do um but, you know, paid gigs are paid gigs.

And some of these shows absolutely work. But you'll see the, I don't know, it was just weird to be at this dinner and to see all these guys that like everyone took turns being the funniest person in the room. And I think people from the outside can be like, oh, no, these guys in Hollywood are funny. And you're like, they're actually insanely funny.

It just sometimes stuff doesn't work. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's my mom, right? My mom's like, why're actually insanely funny. It just sometimes stuff doesn't work. Yeah, absolutely. Well, that's my mom. My mom's like, why is everything so bad? I'm like, mom, I guarantee you people are actually pretty talented and trying. It's just... Look, 95% of everything is bad. 90% of restaurants are kind of bad. It's like there's a lot... It's just accentuated more when, when you're turning on your streaming service or whatever. And it's like, why are these shows bad? It's art is a lot of art is bad.

You know, it's like, there's, there's actually talented people. It's funny, you know, you should mention like, it's, you get spoiled when you're in, in this world, right? When you're working with comedy people or writers or whoever, like they are talented and they're very sort of creative. You know, I find them to be very intelligent and stimulating people. We were, me and my girlfriend, uh, were having dinner with, uh, uh, Kumail Nanjiani and Emily Gordon, who we do Little America with. And, and Kumail and I were talking, he was like, I just take it for granted how smart and funny

everyone I know, like all my friends are now. Cause they're just, they're all writers, actors, whatever. And they, they just, you know, if especially standups, whatever, like all my friends are now because they're just they're all writers, actors, whatever. And they just, you know, especially stand ups, whatever, like you, you've honed it, right? If you hang out in a room, they might not be the friendliest people, but they're they are funny. Like you said, it's a wedding toast thing. Then you go to a wedding that's non comedy people are like, why isn't this like guy as funny as like the funniest stand up in the world? It's like, yeah, that's a normal guy. He's like an accountant or something. Cut on some slack. He has other skills. But that's how you feel sometimes at a wedding, you know? That's why you always tell anybody to like, what do you do It's like, yeah, that's a normal guy. He's like an accountant or something. Cut him some slack. He has other skills. But that's how you feel

sometimes at a wedding, you know? That's why you always tell anybody, they're like, what do you do? Be like, go sincere. They're like, unless you're really funny,

go sincere. Because it's not, it's not going to, like, I don't know. I don't know how it's going to work. No, no, that's the best thing. You're a comedian, you're a con man,

tell me a joke. Say something funny. It's like, oh, I don't want to do that. I can tell you about how to break a story, baby. Why don't I do that? Like, I can tell you what I look for in a screenplay it'll be boring but i'm i can't believe i remember this because i did interrupt you when you were giving us this answer um but give me let's

go back to what you were halfway answering which is my fault for interrupting you but on the now consuming it removed getting to consume in a completely different way. Cause I made this joke that when I was, when I first moved to LA, I was working very little and I was working on other stuff. So I had a lot of free time and it was one of the first times I'd ever really binge watched a show. I know everybody does it. I normally can't just be like, you watch seven episodes in one day. Like how could you even like anything that much? And I started watching the office religiously, just binging. I was like, whatever. And then I noticed, I was like, man, Pam kind of sucks week to week. Yeah. Like when you get a week off from her, she's America's

sweetheart. I go four episodes in a row. You start noticing some flaws there, which I actually asked Rainn Wilson about on Get Up. And he looked at me like I was the worst person of all time, but I had to. I had to stay. I just didn't care. No, I've heard the same thing about Jim and Pam because they're, you know, America was in love with them. Right. And, but if you binge it, it's, it's you. And also the, the, the distance of time, right. The remove of time and, and, and our attitudes have changed. All of that stuff is true. So I was, so it was actually fascinating. The reason, you know, the right. So take it back to your show. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The reason, the reason I started doing the pod was Rob Lowe just called me.

He's like, Hey, you want to do this? It could be fun. I was like, yeah, it sounds fun. Let's do it. I mean, we're, we're busy people, but we can kind of record a few at a time, et cetera. And so it, it, I, and, and I was, to be totally honest, I was like, after I said, yes, I was like, wait a minute, did I just commit to watching a bunch of this show? And is it going to be annoying? And I found that it's really fun. Like it's fun to watch the show because it's so, it's very light. It's, it's very relaxing and it's fun to talk about, but I haven't seen some of these episodes in 10 years. You know, that's true. Like I'm not going, I'm not like watch, I'm not binging a show I worked on, you know what I mean? Like I've seen

the show, but, but you watch it and I really, I think I have a newfound respect for the work that we were putting in. And of course, for Mike, for running that show, because it's a show that works is just, you appreciate it more. Having worked in the business for a long time now, a lot of ingredients have to be in place. The writing has to be good. The directing has to be good. The cast has to be good. The cast of that show is incredible. I mean, it's all people who went on to star

in their own shows and or became movie stars, right? It's a really loaded cast. And so I've actually really enjoyed watching the show again. I've noticed a few different things. And to be honest, I'm now working on a show that's kind of an ensemble comedy. I'm doing it with Matt Hubbard and Maya Rudolph for Apple. And that show has some DNA of workplace ensemble comedies. To us, it feels like the next evolution

of that. There's a little bit more, quote unquote, filmmaking involved. It's not mockumentary style, none of that. But it's very heartfelt. It's optimistic. And it's just set in 2022 instead of, you know, 2012. And so watching Parks and Rec has been like, oh, this is interesting. This is, these are how these dynamics are working and this is how a long running show can work. So yeah, it's, it's, it's a totally different thing. And I remember little, it's also like a trip down memory lane. You're like, oh, I remember when I was, you know, 27 working on that episode or whatever it was and where I was in life and how our own life seeped into it. You know, a trip that me and Aziz took, you know, we would make a joke about it in the

show and it gets in the show. Right. And it's like, oh, we went to Universal CityWalk and saw some dumb shit on Universal CityWalk and like the merch they were selling. Oh, Tom Haverford might like that. Let's buy some and have his character wear it in the show like that was happening at the time and and you remember that and that's kind of cool right it's a show that people are still watching oh on peacock or whatever right okay um gotta have all these things off of that answer i had these quick notes um what's rob low like let's let's do that one because it feels

like i feel like if you hung out with Owen Wilson, you'd be like, why aren't you more like Owen Wilson? Because he's been Owen Wilson in a lot of movies and here in a new TV show. And I'm an Owen Wilson fan. Bottle Rockets is one of my all-time favorite movies. But I think Rob Lowe, some people would be like, why aren't you

more like Rob Lowe? What's going on? I would say, to me, all my interactions with him, the more time I spend with him, you couldn't be more Rob Lowe. You are exactly, you are exactly what people think. He's very, you know, he's got a little bit of Chris Traeger in him and a little bit of Sam Seaboard in him. He's very positive. He's very energetic. You know, he's a little bit older than I am. Like I'm very energetic. He easily keeps up with me and we'll just cycle through these podcasts. And, and, and the, the funniest thing to me about Rob, I really highly recommend his book. And this is not just because we host a podcast. He has a book called stories. I only tell my friends. And I read that book when it

came out, you know, 10 years ago or whatever he was on the show. And, and, you know, he sent me a copy or whatever, and I read it. It's an incredible book. And I hear the audio books even better. Cause it's him telling the stories in his own, you know, his own voice. And, and, but he does do the dude's been famous for 40 years and he just has a story

about literally every person. So it, it, in the pilot of parks and recollection, we're just talking whatever story, whatever stories we're swapping about the pilot. And he's saying, yeah, that reminds me of stories.'re swapping about the pilot, and he's saying, yeah, that reminds me of stories. I was at

my house, and I was having a party, and I was sitting in between Chris Martin and Oprah. And it's always just like he just, every story is like that. The book is like that, too. It's like, and that young woman who came in and sang that day grew up and became Janet Jackson.

And it's always, but every story ends with, it's a famous person because he is a famous person. And if you look at his other podcast, I went on his podcast to just chat about our new show and he was like, we have to figure out the right date for you. It's you and then Jan Aniston

and then Gwyneth. And I was like, okay, well, you can bump me for Jennifer Aniston. She's a bigger name than I am. But no, he's just lived this life for so long. And I was like, oh, okay, well, you have, like, you can bump me for Jennifer Aniston. She's a bigger name than I am. But no, he's just lived this life for so long. And I remember even meeting him or when he was working on Parks and Rec

because, you know, going back to the schedule on the show, the writers don't get hiatuses, right? The actors and the crew, you know, they take a week off here and there

because you can't shoot, like, you know, 50 weeks in a row. There's generally some weeks off. And so the writers are still writing, trying to catch up. And he would come back in and, and, and, you know, he's like fresh off of, uh, you know, I remember distinctly at Parks and Rec, he would come back from a hiatus and we'd be like, Rob, uh, you know, how you been?

He's like, how's your hiatus? He's like, well, you know, I took a boat off the coast of Sardinia and me and my business partners decided to buy Miramax or whatever, whatever story. It's always something like that. Right. And it's like for me, we're like, oh, well, we we were working on writing episode 16. It's OK. I think we've been in the same room the whole time while you were in Sardinia or wherever.

Right. He actually sounds like a terrible guy to have a long term podcast with. Hey, Alan, I can't make it. I'm in. I'm in Reykjavik again for a taco festival. No. No, no. I think we get along because at least in my off time,

I like to do some of that shit on a lower level anyway. So we're swapping travel tips at least. Okay, I have three more things. Sure. Is there a, oh, those guys are doing it when the two guys decide they're going to do

the Parks and Rec podcast? Because I've wondered with, I know it's Jenna Fisher plays Pam, and then Angela. Yeah, Angela and Jenna. We just recorded some co-promos for each other's podcast. So they recorded one for ours,

and we recorded one for theirs. Because I wonder, because I think I know enough at least about my business. I think there's some very, very, very common similarities that like, do you think Creed ever goes off?

Fuck, like I should have done that. I mean, that thing's blowing up. Creed and Oscar be like, God damn it. No, I honestly was just like, I didn't think about it too much. Again, this is a recurring theme in this podcast. Apparently, I do not have that many anxieties,

but Rob called me. I was like, yeah, that sounds fun. I'll do it. So I wasn't like, man, I didn't take a poll of everybody else. I'm sure if I did. Does Jerry hate you right now? By the way, Jerry just recorded an episode on Sunday.

He was so happy. Okay, because Jerry... Jerry doesn't hate anybody. I'll tell you that. Jim O'Hare is the sweetest guy in the world. So I recorded with him. We recorded with him on Sunday, and he was so happy. Jerry doesn't hate anybody. I'll tell you that. Jim O'Hare is the sweetest guy in the world. So I recorded with him. We recorded with him on Sunday and he was so sweet. I love Jim O'Hare in

every scene he's ever been in, in anything. When he's in Veep getting mad at Danny Egan for sleeping with both of his daughters. I don't know if you've seen the episode where he's just like, hey, why don't you, you know, what are you trying to, you know, because he was basically like insinuating that he also wanted to sleep with his wife I think.

My only critique of Parks and Rec was that I just wish Jerry there could have been, you know, a Jerry, every Jerry scene was the best, which is probably why I didn't need more Jerry. So you guys probably made the right call. So I'm not going to be a guy on the outside telling what you did right or wrong, but I just love Jerry.

It's so funny and Jim plays it perfectly because he has that just likable, like Midwestern face. You know, he's like a Chicago guy and you just, and you just, you feel bad for him, but you also know that he doesn't give a shit ultimately. Like he's totally fine with it. And, and by the way, what is it about with him? And like on the show, I think Rob Lowe dates his daughter. It's like, this is like every, what is it about people dating his daughters and shows he's just got that perfect dad face of like the other thing that he sells so well and it's hard for me to to you know get it across the

audience on a podcast but just when his lane he just do like sort of a frumpy sit down when he was disappointed about a zinger and it was so good that i was like did this guy get made fun of his entire life like what's yeah what's going on it's just good acting it was so good that I was like, did this guy get made fun of his entire life? Like, what's going on? It's just good acting. It's just good. And he has dropped some good nuggets in his epi. We have an episode with him coming up. And he auditioned to play Ron Swanson. So he auditioned to play Ron. And that's how his audition was good. And Mike and Greg were like, let's put him in the world somewhere. He's not exactly Ron, but maybe he's another character. And man, what a great eye to those guys. I mean, think about all the people they cast in that show from, you know, from obviously Leslie and, you know, Amy Poehler and Nick Offerman, but also Aziz and Aubrey and Pratt and Rashida and Adam Scott later on. Like it's a murderer's row. And it's really like a great chemistry between Adam leaving people out, obviously. But yeah, it's a it's a murderer's row and it's really like a great chemistry between i'm leaving people out obviously but yeah there's there's it's a it's a loaded cast jim and jim and red included you know they're working they're constantly working now yeah and uh you know greg's vision for it and sure being able to kind of take what he got from greg i think in the office

side and then allison jones and the casting part of it she's just a monster i mean she's just it's hard to compete with her at least as far as when you talk about this kind of stuff i mean she just well you know i read the office book too after the fact and i'm not even fanboying about it because i like the show so much but when you hear her discover and describe in her process of casting um she's brilliant yeah we we just had allison and ben on because that you know they they worked on uh on parks and and and you know she also did Master of None for us. And very early on, when we were casting that show, we were just like, Allison, just send us interesting people. We wrote some parts for the show, but just send us interesting people because we will write parts for them. She sent us a dozen people and we just meet them. We just sit down and chat with them, you know, take their measure. I think the first or second person she sent us, we were like, this person's like just the most interesting, you know, woman to talk to. And it was Lena Waithe. And she had barely acted. She was a writer for Bones. And she just came in with like wearing her Timberlands. And she

literally was just like, man, she was like, how was your guys' weekends? We're like, it was good. How was yours? She's like, I met a woman and I think I turned her into a lesbian. You know, like literally like, just like immediately like the funny stories and just had this rapport with the Zs. We're like, let's just cast her in the show.

The character was kind of, she wasn't necessarily black. She wasn't a lesbian. She wasn't, it was like, let's just write it for Lena and see what she can do. And, you know, obviously that character grew and grew. So's allison just sending us someone who's interesting and just like oh this could be a funny person in your show and may not be the character but it's just you can't make that

shit up and you can't invent a person you know that's ultimately you're you're photographing people that's a show right so so i'm just wondering if my huge ingredients next pitch if i walk in if i can use that line, if it was so successful. I think I turned a woman into a less. Yeah. I mean, that was like. Start up. Hey, guys.

How was your weekend? All right. Two more things. Yeah. Good transition in Master of None, the parents episode. You guys really tried something here. You put Aziz's real parents in the show. And I think it was maybe a departure in the second you know, it was a, it was a, maybe a departure in the

second episode of what it was going to be about. Um, and it was just very authentic. And even though, you know, there was, you know, what I liked about it is that I didn't care about his parents not being actors. You know, I didn't care about that part. I think the, the message of you guys are upset about missing the movie trailers and i killed my pet chicken and you know i had i had literally no hope and i did all of this for you and you can't fucking pick up some rice and if you didn't see the episode maybe this isn't is but it was a really cool i think departure from just normal story arc stuff um to set the template for what was more of an episode about respect than it was maybe even entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and boy, there's so many stories about that

episode, you know, and that story about basically my dad growing up really sort of poor and destitute in Taiwan and not having a food to eat. Basically the story is that he had a pet chicken and he didn't have enough food to eat. And so his mom was like, kill the chicken so we can eat it for dinner. And he had to do that. And that's a story my dad told me when I was a kid. And it's like, that really happened. He grew up in like a village in Taiwan. And I'm in fucking, I'm in my house in LA, like doing a podcast now with Ryan, right? It's like, it happens that quickly. And, you know, I told that story to Aziz when we were tearing our hair out trying to figure out what that show was

because we actually had written a pilot and we had written, we had sold a show to Netflix and then we actually took a year off because we had another season of Parks to do.

So Parks and Rec got picked up for another season. So we did season seven. Meanwhile, our show was, Master None is picked up straight to series. We don't know what the fuck it is. Like, we have a pilot,

but we didn't love it. And so we were like, we're going to get to make this show. We're going to get to, but what do we have to say that's actually different from everything else that's out there? So we threw that pilot in the garbage and we just told each other stories. And that was one of the stories. And he's like, wait, is that story true? Like your dad, was that poor? And I was like, yeah, it was insane. His mom worked in a sugar factory and he helped his mom in a sugar factory. And that's, you know, he had a single mom, he had two brothers

and they didn't have enough food to eat. And again, look at us now, we're at the Bowery Hotel pitching a TV show or whatever it is. And he's like, wow, that's incredible. That's actually about something. Let's, that could be an episode. And it kind of the breakthrough was

every episode can be about anything we want. It could be anything. And keep in mind that, you know, this is 2014 or something. This is a while ago. So that idea was very strange to everybody, very foreign concept. And the idea that episode two of the show, which was the parents episode, had no characters in it from episode one, except for Aziz, was insane. That was like Netflix and Universal were like, what are you guys doing? This is this makes no sense. And, you know, people take that for granted, I think. But at the time, like, you know, we are still trying to push those boundaries. And we wanted Parents to be the first episode. And Netflix is like, it's too crazy. Like, it can't be the first one. Like the first one is much more normal. If you watch that show,

it's like, yeah, it's a group of friends. It's like him and Eric Ware lena and and noel and they're just hanging out at a bar but but the second episode like that's where the show is like that like wow we started in india and taiwan and and and we just like we flash forward 50 years and then we flash back 50 years and that came from a really real place where like you know me and aziz felt like total lazy ding-dongs because our parents had just done so much work in their lives to set us up where we were. Yeah. It's, it's really, really well done. And I, I even loved the stretch where Aziz is walking through the alley and it's the older women working out. And I remember when I started doing some seaport shows for ESPN, there would be this group of like, it was like an older

Asian fitness group that would get together and they'd be doing calisthenics at like six in the morning on the pier out by the water. And I go, what, what's going to like, dude, every day, like the amount of education there's like, there's like one dude. And I don't know if he's like the Mac of the group or what he's like, he shows up and you just had that scene that you have to know New York city. You have to know, have some exposure to a different culture. You know what I mean? You, you have to see that. And that it was so nonchalant in the way that was shot, that they just go through the alley and walk around this group of older women exercising. I was like, this is kind of perfect if you get it. Yeah. And can I tell you about that scene?

That was a total like luck and happenstance. Like a total luck and happenstance. And I walk through that area all the time. It's near Broom Street. And I play basketball near there. I love Broom Street. I mean, that whole area is where I usually hang out when I sit. around that's where i go you know play basketball and it's right by there and so we that's the other bonus of doing that show was like we were just shooting in restaurants and bars and streets that we loved and neighborhoods we loved and so let's just do hey we have a steadicam let's just have aziz and kelvin walk through this arrow they're doing calisthenics let's let's get that and let's just shoot it we're here you know it's like we know this area and those aren't our extras those are just people and that's just new york and it's just so happens it it is very thematically relevant with the episode so that was like that that was that was a happy accident just so i don't expose myself too much and not knowing all the inner

workings of the seat the streets of manhattan i probably don't hang out in that part of chinatown when i get a hotel but i there's another there's stretch. It's not that far from the Ludlow. It's close. It's not that far. I just didn't want anyone to be listening to me like, I've heard where Rosillo says he hangs out when he goes to the city. That's not where. But Broom Street, yeah, you know. It's close. It's close to Ray's. It's close to Thoreau and Nick Brown's bar.

Ray's. Shout out to Ray's. So, yeah. It's not too far. Okay. Last one. Did you, as you've gotten older, do you have any guilt about your fire joe morgan tenure uh guilt i would say you know i just feel like that stuff you write with such here's what i would say no no just for people to remember that yes that was that was michael schur's deal it was a blog and it was a great title yeah and i had gotten to espn kind of as it was happening i certainly i was never going title. And I had gotten to ESPN kind of as it was happening.

Certainly, I was never going to be the one that anybody cared about back then. And it was basically like, here's this idea that we hate this guy on Sunday Night Baseball. And now everybody else just join in. Right. Is that a pretty good synopsis? It was basically like, and I honestly wish we had just named it something else because it really wasn't about, hey, firing this one guy. Sure. Although we did make fun of Joe Morgan quite a bit, but we made fun of Tim McCarver.

We made fun of like, you know, Harold Reynolds, whatever, all these people. And really, like, if there's anything to regret about it is just the tone of it. But that's also kind of the comedy, right? Also, keep in mind, this is 12 years ago on the internet. This isn't 2021. But keep in mind, this is 12 years ago on the internet. This isn't 2021. But it was just like, the tone of the thing was just like very snarky and very much like,

this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. We had just read Moneyball. It was just, think about, we're showing Launch Angle and Vorp and all this shit on national broadcasts now. At the time, they would only show batting average. They would only show batting average. They would only show, and now we know these stats are real and as boring as they can be sometimes, they are accurate.

And unfortunately, the data is real, right? It's certainly in baseball, right? So, but 10 years ago, we were just grinding that ax over and over and over again. And honestly, some of that shit is still funny, but also we're, honestly, we're wrong about a lot of stuff on that blog.

So that's the irony of it, which is like, yeah, but people keep learning. But I think the overall message was be open to new ideas and things. The way you think a sport should be played changes. Look at the NBA. Look at the shot distribution in the NBA. Look at Kirk Goldsberry's shot charts

from even 2010 or 2000. People just didn't realize all you should be doing is shooting threes, getting fouled, shooting free throws, and dunking. Like no one should be,

the mid-range should just be used as a release foul. And people didn't know that. People were taking 21 footers all the time. Like Kobe Bryant, God bless him, like just taking a lot of fall away 20 footers,

even Jordan, right? But if Jordan played now, he would learn to adapt. And that's, again, not to get too grandiloquent, but that's human progress. You learn, you're open-minded, you might be wrong. That's all we're saying. It's like, to me, it's like, I might be wrong about something.

I have to be open-minded and not be like, this is the way it's always done. And sports, since sports is results-oriented, there's no better, there's almost no better place where like innovation can happen. Because if you start doing something, if you start shooting a lot of threes,

or if you start going for home runs more than just making contact, you win. Like winning, sports is about winning. And so that, you know, shit works. Like the idea of data and science is like, it works. And so that shit works. The idea of data and science is like it works and in sports it works. Go forward and forth down

more. Stop punting so much. Stop bunting so much. All this stuff, results work and that's why a lot of the data has won. Now I've gone on a crazy data rant, but it's happened. We know it's happened. Look at how many threes are shot in the NBA. That's my biggest data point,

at least in that league, which I follow really closely. I would say this, that we need to have you back on. We'll talk some sports with you because I think we unleashed the energy from you there at the end. We were like, actually, dude, I'm a huge sports fan. We got to talk NBA stuff. I've got

Lakers preseason thoughts. That's how deep this is for me. I want to talk about THT's injury. By the way, Parks and Recollection came out in September. This interview got pushed off so long that I didn't realize now we've got five episodes out. So they go over the pilot. Allison Jones is on the fourth episode. They just did the banquet this past week.

That was just yesterday that that came out. So check out Alan Yang and Rob Lowe on that. And just to be, let's check out the reviews. Oh, we've got a pretty good number here. Not bad, right?

Just, just came out on the charts. Two stars though. I know you don't like any of the negative stuff, but we're just going to do one to keep you, please keep you honest. This is, can we make a clean,

can we make it cleaner or at least have a clean version so there's some feedback oh cleaner oh man i don't know if i could do that i think i don't think i could do that that's sorry whoever that is uh you're gonna have to start your own parks and recollection parks and recreation recap pod maybe with uh maybe jerry and donna will be cleaner on the clean version yeah version. Yeah. Hey, Alan, thanks a lot. This was a lot of fun. Appreciate it. Absolutely, man.

Thank you so much. And thanks for doing all that research because, man, you really knew a lot about my life. So I appreciate that. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have

every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. We're going to do this one more time because it fascinates me how often people don't get this. So a video came out of Cerruti and I talking about Harry Styles and the number of people that still think we're saying Sir Rudy as if he's knighted. Don't you think that would come up more often if Cerruti introduced himself

as Sir space Rudy? Don't you think we would bring that up more as content? It's just an Italian name. It's Cerruti. It's far better than Greeny's nickname for you. How long did that nickname last? Roots. Too long.

Yeah, Roots was one that I didn't really acknowledge for a while. But I mean, Greeny was super cool to me, but I don't think I ever acknowledged that one. I just was like, you know what? We're going to let you have that one, but I'm not going to respond to it. Cerruti, I mean, it's always amazing to me. Like Allison, who's our guest booker, who's great. She had never heard that before either. And she's like, that's the greatest name ever. I'm going to start calling you that from now on. I'm like, well, it's always amazing to me, like Allison, who's our guest booker, who's great. She had never heard that before either. And she's like, that's the greatest name ever.

I'm going to start calling you that from now on. I'm like, well, it's the same name. So I get why people do it. But I am not an imperial knight. I wish I was. I'd probably be much cooler. But I legitimately get dozens of emails and not emails. I guess I get dozens of tweets about that.

And I've gotten them for many, many years. There's always like some new thing that people always, they see my face or they see me on the show or something and then they see my Twitter handle and they're like, wait, you're not actually Sir Rudy?

I'm like, why would I be Sir Rudy? Why would I be a knight? Or if you weren't, like clearly you're not a knight. We would have brought it up at some point. And if you weren't and you're like, this guy's super into,

what is it larping what are those guys oh yeah live action role playing yeah yeah so i'm not a larper just to be clear right but i'm just saying it would have been addressed and i know probably your audience grows all the time podcast does really well there's new people listening constantly so that's cool but to think like hey rossillo is usually on everybody about things and he doesn't want to touch this one. And the guy that he's become really close with in the industry is a guy that's so into LARP that he has named himself Sir Rudy. Yeah, I guess it just surprises me that people would think it was that and that it would never be brought up. Because trust me, if call yourself that we bring it up a lot more right kyle i just want you guys know that i've been i've been muted laughing about roots for 90 seconds i mean greeny you know bless him not the best giver of nicknames uh over the course of time and uh yeah that one did not stick luckily i remember like he he never knew what to do with me like we like each other use the hell out of him

yeah because he just he just he's very like you know he's very straightforward you would just kind of like do these things where you kind of fuck with him but he wouldn't know if you were fucking with him or not yeah yeah and then it's kind of like why would you be fucking with me and then it's like how could i not fuck with you a little bit? Come on, man. And so I would go and do like Get Up for long stretches. And I always felt it was good, you know, because I thought the great role about me on Get Up is that I'm a host, but I'm not the host for that show. But I can get in a little, but I can also pivot it and ease the burden, even though, look, Greeny is one of the best hosts the pacing of the show is is one of its strengths uh and look they turned that show around because when it was first starting out it was kind of like what's going on do we have three hosts what's anyway i'm not the oral history get up all right um he's horrible with the nicknames and he'll just kind of do them and so like steven a came by to do something one time and steven a who loves sharing the camera with everybody he's

you know looking at me he's like our risotto's here in the middle chair what the hell's going on and then he's like okay Stevie what do you got and he Stephen A leaves I was like why did you call him Stevie and he goes well my son's name I call him Stevie I'm like that's your fucking kid Stevie I'm like I've never heard anybody else call Stephen A Smith other than you know Stephen A Stephen you know like that's that's it those are the only two options. So Greeny was a big, I'm just making up a nickname guy out of nowhere. And he'd be like, so Rudy, Rudy, Roots, Roots. All right, Roots, what do you got? And the rest of us, we had had you on the show with Van Pelt and I, and I told you, you've got to go to Mike and Mike. Go work on Mike and Mike. Have that on your resume. I know you're going to hate getting up and everything.

We love everything you've done with us, but go work on that show. And then like a week in, I think we caught like the last hour and we were in our studio prepping. And I heard him call you Roots. And we just fan felt. And I looked at you and I'm like, oh, man. That's a tough scene. Tough scene for your boy. Well, you know what's funny, though, is I've actually had, because at the time when I was with you guys, it was Quinnipiac Steve, because we had two Steves, obviously.

There's Stanford Steve. And like, what do we call you? I was like, I don't know, Quinnipiac Steve. I went to Quinnipiac. And then even before that, Gottlieb gave me the, I've had so many nicknames. Gottlieb gave me the nickname Twilight because I hadn't seen the light of day in like years. And I looked like Edward Cullen or whatever his name is. And then Cowherd stole that on the herd.

So it was Twilight, Quinnipiac Steve, Roots, and now Sir Rudy. Cowherd stole somebody's joke? Shocker. Yeah, because you were young, you pasty, and you were thin. Well, I was also working a lot of overnight, so I didn't see the sun for like a good two years. I was on a vitamin D supplement, so it wasn't at my peak health.

Yeah, but you did. You looked like an extra in the werewolf gang before you did the werewolf deal. Kind of. I had long, dark hair. Yeah. Call me Twilight. So let me just ask, what did you do to combat not being known as Roots? Did you say nothing? I'm trying to think. What were like 25 and like yeah and somebody who establishes like your roots

now and you just didn't say see nobody thought it was a good name so i just wouldn't really respond to it but the problem was everybody like all the other people that worked on the show like ray and you know whoever liam would love it and they would call me Roots just because they knew I hated it. Not because they actually thought it was my nickname. They were just doing it because they hated me. It took a couple years to get that one off me. Thank you, Greeny. Greeny's not the type of guy

that would do it knowing you don't like it, though. He thought he had come up with something real clever. That's what it was. I wasn't going to tell him I hated it because i was like you never said anything 25 year old nobody but you know i wasn't also wasn't gonna you know play cake to it because stanford steve was five star steve before he was stanford steve and before he was five star steve he was steve in the hallway which was a Cowherd thing. That was an original. And it was Steve in the hallway. And then he started having them on. And Cowherd was really good. Because back then, it was just dumb. The rule was, hey, we pay you to talk on the air.

We don't want to hear from anybody else. You're like, yeah, but you don't get it. If you're paying me to be on the air, you're going to want to hear me prop off of somebody else. So when Outsider Mike tells the donkey story, there's it's gold we're gonna let him talk for five minutes and have van pelt and i'd be just out of our minds like we can't believe um outsider's a guy who worked behind the board and he told the story about a donkey when they were tripping italy and the donkey was so miserable it just looked at everybody and jumped to its death off of a cliff while he was a kid that can't be true well whatever he he's got a little theatrical

thing to him outsider did he just always knew he kind of knew always like it was like this out of nowhere we're like wait this guy's amazing and he's got these these perfect beats for like a side radio guy and i think the best radio shows have always had that but espn was always like can't do it can't do it can't do it and then levitar did it and they're like oh dan can do it and we're like why what are you guys talking about and that was that was always like, can't do it, can't do it, can't do it. And then Levitar did it. And they're like, oh, Dan can do it. And we're like, what are you guys talking about? And that was always another set of rules thing that annoyed the shit out of the rest of the shows. But I always felt like when we were watching that, we were watching our friend die a little every time we got called roots. Yeah, a little part of me did die.

But then about a year later later I was back with you. So what's up? Shouts out to Rosillo and canal. Rest in peace. Good run. Rest in peace. I always get emails saying I've been there since the SVP days. I don't get many that say I've been there since the canal days.

I don't know what that means. Maybe they were already there. They were there and that's what it was. Okay. Let's do a pizza party followup from the pizza party emailer and then we have one other quick one all right we good with that yeah okay so remember the pizza party scandal because i know some of you guys listen to life advice way later like i'm still getting harry styles emails we've got it we got it. Olivia Wilde used to be Ted Lasso's girlfriend. Our bad.

We got it. If you're listening to that podcast today, you go, you know, let me help these guys out. We have been assisted. We've got it. Although they continue to fly in. Thanks, Kyle. Okay. All right.

So our guy had a pizza party. To recap, seven pizzas, vegan running crew. This one couple said, hey, we'll get the pizza this time. They said it was seven pizzas, vegan running crew. This one couple said, hey, we'll get the pizza this time. They said it was seven pizzas, 250 bucks. And by the way, it was BYOB, which I should have mentioned. I brought up, hey, you know what? You guys blast her on Facebook, but hopefully it was a Facebook group that was private. I basically decided I'll continue to be by myself because of the story. I kind of blame no one, but blamed everybody. Here's what I love is the guy that sent in the email was fired up that we read it and didn't take it as like get really defensive because that can

happen when you send in something and maybe I'm not a hundred percent on your side that you can have guys email in and it's totally defensive. And now we're getting away from the goal is trying to figure out exactly what happened because we also had a lot. This is a lot like the wine stain story. We had a lot of people reaching out to go, Hey, I have a theory on what happened. So let's start with our guy in the runners group that's also vegan. My guys, appreciate you reading the ridiculous pizza drama on the pod. No expectation whatsoever. But if I'm one of the rare few who garners enough feedback to justify a 30, 45 second

follow up. So a few points of clarification. You absolutely deserve that. First, you were right when you speculated it's 100% about the principle of matter. Guys are just like, look, if the pizzas cost 160 when we call store and they charged us 250 then it's kind of just screwed up and i get it i get not loving that um so he goes i genuinely enjoyed the night happily paid the 50 but don't think it's unreasonable to say the overcharging friends lying about it taking a few bills off the top is questionable behavior for a budding

relationship second before anything was communicated online her best friend in the group texted her on the side after having verified the hundred dollar discrepancy with the pizza place so again they get charged they're like this doesn't make sense some recon is done they find out the pizza place says that order that specific order costs this much so her best friend i guess texted on the side so that's good casually offered her multiple opportunities to explain the discrepancy, which she declined to do. Lastly, the Facebook group is absolutely private. We did not put her on blast. The confrontation I mentioned was simply one of members saying something to the effect of, hey, in the future, $25 is probably too much for me to justify, to which the hostess responded. I honestly don't care about the money. I do, however, care to avoid befriending people

who bizarrely dabble in the pettiest of theft. Maybe I'm a jerk. I hope. Maybe I'm the jerk. I hope I am. Oh, wow. Okay. It's just such a clusterfuck that I had to consult the guru. By the way, he sent a picture of an SVP Rosillo single issue gray long sleeve knockoff dry fit that he sent.

He said Saruti sent it to him. Okay. Here's what we're working with. A lot of people did follow up. The most valuable information, Kyle, was this. There's a really simple explanation, a possible explanation for why this upcharge happened, because it seems to be enough evidence that the upcharge did happen. If you ordered it from a certain food delivery service, there could have been a massive upcharge. If they don't have one of the Postmates membership things or membership deals with any of the other competitors, there's a really good chance.

Sometimes you'll do an order at a specific place. There's this one sushi place in Manhattan Beach. And if you hit it wrong, it's like trying to leave walk-ons in Baton Rouge. You get back to your hotel at 2 a.m. after a game night. Uber is a mortgage. I really do think there's a

chance here that she could have been upcharged, but as much as I appreciate all the inquiries and recon, Kyle, the problem is it appears that she at least it was one of two things she upcharged and that's why she hasn't provided the receipts or she didn't she's so offended that you guys accused her of it she's not showing you anything because she's done with all of it um so i think that's something for the pizza runner the vegan runner pizza beer group

to consider that there's a chance she just got hosed on one of the food apps kyle there is a chance but there is one thing if you're stuck trying to leave someplace and uber's 100 you know what you do what you do is you check lift that's what i'm saying and i think if she actually did have the receipts and was like all right you guys are gonna feel like a bunch of assholes. I think that's the first thing she would have done. Again, this is ugly to keep talking about, but yeah, I think something weird happened. I don't know what it is, but I don't think that just the service charge would be like $60 and the tip was $40. That's the only way you could

explain it, right? If the service and delivery charge was $60 I don't know also seems like a lot of pizzas for 10 people unless somebody didn't show up this math doesn't add up either So rudy I still don't think that adds up because I think wouldn't even if this person was offended Uh, the girl was offended. She would still tell you hey idiot Like this was why it was this way and i'm gonna be mad at you because of that i don't think she would hide that from you wouldn't she want to prove to you that she didn't screw you over but then still not be friends with you afterwards i don't i don't get why she wouldn't reveal that information plus pizza places

they have delivery i don't think there's an uber eat situation where there would be some massive they're used to delivery like it's not like it's some bougie like poke place where you're getting takeout from where like you know you know pizza okay straight forward this generation doesn't like talking on the phone though it's just a fact they'll pay that charge to not talk to anyone and read their credit card number over the phone okay but i will i will tell you kyle you're the kind of guy that would check lift um i do it still at the airport. I don't just blindly go, whatever. I'll be like, wait, this rate sucks.

Let me see what else. Let's dance with this a little bit here. There are a lot of people that don't even think that way. Wherever they're at financially, they just go, whatever, delivery. So I don't know. I don't know what happened here. I don't know what happened here.

But you know what I do know what happened? Some people lost some friends over some pricey pizza. And I think in the long run, I don't know. Maybe you'll regret losing the friends. Maybe your position with friends is strong.

I like that our guy was willing to take the blame, though. He's open to being wrong. Good emailer. Yeah, he seems like a good dude. This guy's pretty accountable. Totally. Yeah. A lot of people, I think, would have heard me read the first email and come back defensive. Maybe call me out.

You know, not like it. Because that happens. We don't really read those too often. Because, I don't know, I guess we could do hate mail once a week. But that doesn't seem like as much fun. Okay, let's do this last one. those too often um because i mean i guess we could do hate mail once a week but that doesn't seem like as much fun okay let's do this last one deep breath here hey ryan 5 11 170ish crappy small forward i'm in a fantasy league with some friends, including my buddy, whose wife tragically passed away in a car accident a few weeks back.

The problem is, a few days after her accident, the husband traded Nick Chubb to his team from his wife's fantasy team. Yes, a few days later. I wasn't going to say anything about it being a grieving husband and whatnot but it did come up eventually in the group chat and he defended himself by saying it was her dying wish to give him nick chubb should we let this slide there's no way this is true no freaking chance no way it's fake he was doing okay he I mean obviously I'll feel terrible if it's not fake he was doing a great job with this email he gives us the stats his pickup hoop scouting report gives us the backdrop when I read it the first time I was like what and I was like I don't know if I'm gonna do this one and then when he ends it when he said whatnot I was like okay because I always feel like whenever

my buddies say something and be like in the whatnot like it just it's immediately a flag that we're not being serious about anything and when he said that he defended it in a group chat just imagine this scenario fantasy text thread was the wife not in the original thread by the way she was not well let's say she's not in this thread and the wife's dead two weeks and one of the guys is like hey bro what's up with that nick chubb trade and he says to the rest of the text thread my wife's dying wish was for me to have Nick Chubb. I would have fucking lost it. So you're saying, Kyle, if it were real and your buddy said that, your reaction

is what? Bullshit, but I mean, I'm also not like, I've been in the group chat and I've never been the guy who's stirring shit up in the fantasy group chat who's mad about something that happened in the fantasy league. 7-0 right now, you know know what can you say but can you say yeah

but I guess I just I just know that I would have said nothing actually because I've never been in a fantasy group chat where somebody's not going to be like are you fucking serious bro so I would have just let it unfold I would I would have said nothing and let somebody else do the dirty work for me I don't want that sort of stuff on paper

with my name on it. Would you have complained about the wife, the dead wife, giving Nick Chubb to your buddy privately? Maybe. I might have put an LOL in there, I think, because at that point, we all know we're joking.

Like, this is a big joke at that point. Come on, dying wish. The way we are laughing, if this is real, but there there's no way there's no way it's real there's no way it's real there's no way a friend would say the sentence weeks after his wife was killed in a car accident her dying wish was for me to have nick chum unless they're a hilarious couple like literally the funniest two people you ever there's no couple her dying wish was for me to have Nick Chum. Unless they're a hilarious couple, like literally the funniest two people you ever met. There's no couple.

I don't think there's any couple that, that like, I bet you this guy sends back a link to like some death in a car. And he's like, no, it's this. I mean, guys try to get us all the time with it because if we had taken it really seriously and it was a group of buddies and we were breaking down like the

the pros and cons of calling somebody else out for a dead wife trading nick chubb to a buddy like i would have been dying laughing at anyone taking that seriously i mean the downside of this you could have somebody being like you guys are dicks because it actually did happen i just have a hard time believing there's any way a way this transaction happened and the guy was like no, that's what she said, man. So you can't get it out of the wish. If it is true, does the commissioner get involved and undo the trade

or you just kind of let your buddy have it? Can't you just vote against it? You can or I don't know, maybe the guy really, you know, obviously it would be a tough situation to just let him have Nick Chubb and everybody just kind of shuts their mouths? I would, I, when Kyle said I would let somebody else handle that confrontation, I would not be able to get involved whatsoever. I guess it's on the commissioner.

He would just have to say, look, I get it, but you're not, you're not going to get the votes. This isn't going to get approved. That's great. By the way, he didn't include, the email didn't include what was traded for nick chubb so now we know definitely know it's fake that could have been a fair trade yeah what if it was what if it was a decent it was a decent trade but you know you got kyle murray back but who's gonna set our lineup now okay that's life advice lifevicerr at gmail.com Thanks to Kyle

and Steve and Roots. And Roots. I think it is weird that you call me Steve at the end of the pod all the time. Nobody calls me Steve. It's weird. You're doing it like it's like a format that you're doing. I've never

heard you call me that. I was told to do it and I want to make sure I'm following the rules. Kyle and Roots. Kyle, do you have a nickname? No. Come on. You must have had one. What's your best nickname? I don't

think I can say it here. I won't do it. Wow. Can't even imagine. Alright, we'll just let that one go enjoy your weekend everyone Outro Music