The Ryen Russillo Podcast - WTF Sixers? Trae Young Is the Toughest Player on the Floor. Plus: Jarrett Jack and Luke Wilson.

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

Russillo shares his thoughts on the Hawks’ Game 5 comeback win over the 76ers (2:00) before diving into the 76ers’ fourth-quarter collapse (10:45). Then Ryen is joined by NBA veteran and current NBA G League Ignite point guard Jarrett Jack to discuss his time in the NBA G League, his relationship with Chris Paul, playing for coach Mark Jackson with the 2012-13 Warriors, mentoring young players, and more (35:30). Then Ryen talks with actor Luke Wilson about his new sports film ‘12 Mighty Orphans’ and one of Ryen’s favorite films, ‘Bottle Rocket’ (1:03:00). Finally, Ryen answers some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (1:20:00). Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Jarrett Jack and Luke Wilson Producer: Kyle Crichton and Steve Ceruti  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm sitting next to him, mind you, we're at his place in New Orleans and his wife is packing up, they're putting all the tape on the boxes or whatever, and I'm just sitting there watching TV. Of course this is breaking news all over the place, CP's about to play with Kobe and Pow and the whole thing. So I'm just sitting there kind of watching that, whatever. And he's on the phone. And he hung up the phone. He was like, yo, did you hear that? And I'm like, nah. He's like, bro, they just said I can't get traded. I said, man, you're lying.

He very much was at practice the next day. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, he made his way to the Clippers. So I'm glad he got to go into a situation where he can still be competitive. That is Chris Paul's teammate, Jarrett Jack, when he was hanging out with Paul when Paul got a call saying, you're actually not going to the Lakers. Really good stories on that and this time with the G League. Also, Luke Wilson. We're going to talk about that Sixers loss.

We're going to give Trey Young some love and life advice next. So just so everybody understands my night, I was with a friend and it's a blowout. I come back to the hotel. I'm on the phone with Cowherd. We're chopping it up. I go, hey, dude, I think I got to go. I think I'm about to watch something historic here.

And unfortunately for Sixers fans and fortunately for this Atlanta team, there's now a 3-2 in this series. We just saw one of the epic meltdowns in recent playoff history. And unfortunately, it's the second time it's happened in-2 in this series. We just saw one of the epic meltdowns in recent playoff history. And unfortunately, it's the second time it's happened in this Sixers-Atlanta series. So let's go over just some of the stuff flying around last night. Because you know me, personally, I'm not going to start screaming,

and, hey, this team sucks, fire everybody, all that kind of stuff. It's just not who your guy is. But let's run through what happened, meaning at the end of game five, and then what we kind of have now contextually for game four and game five, because this is a joke. I mean, Philly, good luck to you this morning in trying to navigate through this. All right, so Ben Simmons has zero field goal attempts in the last two fourth quarters.

All right? Zero. They blew a 26-point lead in Game 5. It's the third largest blown lead in the playoffs in the last 25 years. Ben Simmons has missed 45 free throws in the playoffs. Other teams have only missed like 20. Ben Simmons is the first player in the regular season or playoffs

with 10 plus misses at the free throw line this season. All right? Only Joel Embiid and Seth Curry made a field goal in the second half. At one point, the second half scoring split was 36 points for Embiid and Seth Curry, six points for everyone else. For them to be the only duo to make a field goal in the second half, it's the only duo in the last 15 post-seasons for this to happen. Dwight Howard has a higher usage rate

in this series at 18.5 than Ben Simmons at 14.4. Ben Simmons, if we look at the worst single free throw percentage in a playoff, minimum 50 attempts, Ben Wallace in 2006, this number, cover the kid's ears, 27.3% at the free throw line in 06. The second worst, you guessed it, Ben Simmons at just was up 25 with 315 left in the third quarter. They gave up 51 points in the remaining 15 plus. Philly is the only team to blow 18-point leads in back-to-back games in the playoffs in the last 25 seasons.

And of course, everyone knows my favorite number ever, win probability. The win probability in game four, 95.5%. Win probability in game five, 99.7%. Ben Simmons also came out of this game for about a minute in the fourth quarter because they went to the hacking Ben Simmons approach. And we're going to go through every fourth quarter offensive possession for Philadelphia. And really, I could have done it for defensive possessions because it was just as bad. But I'm going to do it for the offensive side of this because I think that's still the fundamental problem with the Ben Simmons approach to it. I'm not saying Ben Simmons is terrible, but like whenever

it's just one of those deals where you go, hey, is it okay if I say there's some doubts here? Is it okay to say that when you see it in real time? The problem for Ben Simmons is that he's talked about as if he's a superstar in this league and he's not. He's really

good at some things. I remember that one the Wizards broadcaster was like, hey, I just think Ben Simmons is really overrated. And everybody crushed him. Ben Simmons called him short, which, you know. But look, we respect and recognize all shapes and sizes on this podcast now. But I think it's okay to watch these games and watch what happens in the fourth quarter and go, yeah, maybe these are some of the anti-Ben Simmons arguments. And maybe they're not terrible.

And I appreciate all the stuff that he's doing, but if he's out there trying to stop Trae Young and Trae Young has 39 points, then what's going on? I'm going to go over all those fourth quarter possessions on offense in a very short amount of time. But there's also something else that goes beyond all these historical numbers that we saw from the Sixers.

There's a tightness to this team, and it's hard to get through it until you have success. And it's funny because it plays in perfectly what the Clippers have done now and what Paul George did in Game 5 to go up 3-2 in Utah. Clippers going small, small, small. When you think they can't go smaller, they go small again. And granted, it's not like it's a completely new rotation of guys. They're just going to go small. They're

going to make Gobert have to chase people around. They're going to limit his effectiveness because he's moving around. And then on offense, he can't make anyone pay. And now Paul George, the rediscovery of Paul George storyline is happening. People ask him, hey, is this what playoff P is? Now, if you really watch the game, he had 30 and 13 points and rebounds going into the fourth quarter. And for about seven minutes in the fourth quarter, bobbling the basketball, making some weird passes. Now it's really on you. But they win. He has a couple buckets late.

And so all of the kind of stuff that scared you a little bit, because it really happened. There were moments where you're like, oh, I don't know if scare is the right word, but like something's off here. They're kind of getting clogged up. It's all on him. Now it's really all on you. The Sixers are like the worst playoff Paul George, but there's five of them. And that's not entirely fair, but I'd ask any Sixers fan that watched this game, watched game four, watched some of those other losses where you're like, do you guys actually not believe in yourselves? Because this is where, after only six minutes, I've taken too long to getting to Trey Young and giving him all the credit. Because Trey Young is the toughest player on the court in this series.

Trey Young's the toughest player. That guy, and for all my criticisms, which I think were fair at the time, That guy, and for all my criticisms, which I think were fair at the time, that guy has been told he's too small. He's been told all these, it's kind of like that Isaiah Thomas deal where I didn't always love all the Isaiah Thomas stuff on offense, but it's hard to tell him like, hey, be different, have a different approach when he's like, all you guys have done has been wrong about me as a player out of high school, out of college, Sacramento, Phoenix, and now in Boston.

And with Trey Young, it's not as long. It's not as much doubt. I mean, we're talking about a guy that was a top five pick. But with Trey, there's just no doubt with him because everyone else has done the doubting for him. So why would he doubt himself? And I don't know if this will change because here's a Philadelphia team. Look at these leads. Game two up 21.

Game three up 22. Game four up 18. Game five up 26 points. It was 52, excuse me, no, 62 to 36. Yeah, 62-36 at one point. And I'm like, all right, I'll be able to prep for the next game. Like, I don't have to watch this one. And then, you know, an hour in real time later, I'm telling Cowherd, hey, I got to get off the phone. This is happening. That's what I take from this. Because Atlanta's up 3-2 on a team that I think is better than them. I do. And maybe that's the wake-up call Philadelphia needed. But when you watch a few of those last possessions, and I'm not talking about an offensive concept here.

I'm talking about some of those final possessions. We even saw it in game four where Tobias Harris pulls up right side, probably could have taken that shot, throws it down to Embiid, and Embiid misses the layup, and it's out of bounds off of Ben Simmons. All right, game over, body language destroyed. There's a couple possessions I'll get to a little bit later in the podcast where you're like, okay, you guys are freaking out a little bit. You're freaking out because all you're doing,

you're not thinking about the possession or what you're supposed to be doing. You're thinking, I can't believe we just blew another lead this big. So credit to the Hawks. We'll get into that Sixers fourth quarter coming up. I said I was going to go through every play. Let's not do that to each other because I just don't even think that would be interesting to anybody. Okay, let's focus on three separate parts of the fourth quarter

and what the Sixers are trying to do offensively. 87-69, it's Harris and the bench group and the first play on the right side where they're trying to get Harris against Kevin Herter. It completely gets jammed up, doesn't work and George Hill has a missed floater. And then by the way, Dwight missed a putback on that miss. They wanted Harris

again against Herter. They get the switch this time, but Herter worked really, really hard on this. He fronted, he got physical, he got Harris in a spot where he was on the left baseline, misses a tough fadeaway. They do it again. Harris switch against Herter. And on this play, you actually ended up with Harris on a drive, but all the help came to him and came off that short right corner off of George Hill, and Harris kicked it out to him. It was actually a great look for Hill. He just missed the three.

Offensive rebound, Dwight blocked. So none of that worked. Under 10, they bring in Simmons and Embiid. Now, as soon as Simmons comes in, you have to see how different the defense is. All right, we already know this. This isn't new. But when things start to get tight, and as I've always looked at some of those fourth quarter offensive efficiency numbers for the Sixers, they've been on the worst side of things here the last four years. And some of the clutch time stuff, they had like a one year where they're actually pretty decent there.

And then if you look at the playoffs, they usually were like in the bottom five teams of fourth quarter per 100. And you could argue a short sample every single way. But there's a consistent problem I think we would see with the Sixers team where you're like, I just don't really love the way it looks, which doesn't mean that it's impossible because let's let's not kid ourselves in game four when they're up 18. I'm going, hey, Philly might win the title this year. And they could still have this, I think,

major problem with the Simmons-MB relationship, which I don't even know why anybody debates this stuff anymore. And they could still win a title. That's actually what I think could happen, especially this year. Doesn't feel so good now, down 3-2. So Simmons comes in, his defender's Gallinari. Gallo is below the free throw line. He is more than 15 feet away from where Simmons is at the top of the key. And this whole big chunk here in the middle of the fourth quarter towards the end is Simmons bringing the ball up, kind of faking the offense.

never comes up. So if it's a handoff to Curry or it's a pass to Curry where then Simmons sets the screen on Trey Young and then Curry's trying to get some kind of momentum and angle, in a normal situation, there's a fourth guy who has to make a decision. In this case, the fourth guy is Gallinari and he's already standing at the free throw line near Embiid, who already has another big on him. So it's almost like these possessions start with Embiid with a double team. And it's also why you can't just say, hey, get Embiid in the post and get to work because all the bodies are kind of in that area already. And if you just want to post one side, then it's like everybody already knows which side you're setting up. So at least this case, there's the concept of that we may go left or right here. But it usually just ends up in this Curry handoff, or then Embiid catches it, and then he gets some sort of handoff to Curry.

catches it, and then he gets some sort of handoff to Curry. This Sixers offense in game five was the Curry and B two-man game, which we've seen a lot in the regular season. And Simmons kind of fake sets it up while Simmons guy stands as far away from Simmons as he possibly can, always involved in the other group. And Curry had a couple good looks here. You know, they made some shots. Guys got fouled. But at 625, that was the last time the Sixers were going to make a field goal in this game.

The fourth made field goal of the fourth quarter is a long two by Curry. They don't make a field goal for the next 625. Because it's Curry having to figure out something kind of one-on-one and sometimes even one- 6-25. Because it's Curry having to figure out something kind of one-on-one and sometimes even one-on-two. It's Embiid because he can't really set up in the post the way you'd want him to normally earlier in the game.

He's now starting over and kind of facing the basket way too far away and having to kind of restart the possession himself. And then he's going to drive and sometimes he gets fouled. He had a couple of missed dunks. He missed those two huge free throws late, but that's, that's really it.

That's it. It was like, Hey, let's get Harris against Herter. Okay. Didn't work. Let's do this Simmons, Curry and B deal. And the other two guys are completely non-existent. And if Ben Simmons is in there with the eyeball to stop Trey Young defensively, and Trey ends up with 39 points,

look, they took Simmons out at 320, brought him back in at 220. It was less than a minute because then they were going to start fouling Simmons. And Simmons actually made two free throws, made the first two, missed the second one. And then I think the real disaster here was Trey hits those three free throws on the thigh ball foul. Again, I don't love that play. It was probably the biggest offensive possession for the Hawks as they go up 105, 104. It's their first lead of the game. And so this is where, as I said in the open, it looks really tight. They run a play where Harris ends up in the left baseline. He drives. You saw Gallinari try to flop for the charge. He passes it to Embiid.

Could Harris have hit that or taken that shot? Maybe. But Embiid just kind of freezes. I don't know if it's because he thought he could have passed to Ben Simmons, who looked open underneath the rim, but I don't think that's entirely fair because there's some bodies, some arms, and you might also be,

if you're Embiid going, do I really want to pass it to Simmons here and have him get fouled? And then, as Embiid's kind of resetting and figuring out what to do, because none of this is in the flow. It's just kind of like on the fly, your seven footer has to figure this out seven feet away from the hoop, the ball in his hands. He passes it to Harris, who then is blocked and it's a foul on the 76ers. And then they ran this other play when they brought in Shaq Milton to run the offense, which speaks to all the confusion and frustration and lack of spacing when simmons was running that offense for what felt like eight

minutes straight other than the minute he got benched because of the free throws they ran they tried to a curry high screen for shake milton curry gets to the left break he's wide open shake milton doesn't even look Shake Milton doesn't even look at him. Doesn't even look at him. So then the Sixers run a three-man weave, basically, with Shake Milton, Tobias Harris, Joel Embiid, which does nothing. And then, you know, it ended up being that Embiid got fouled, and that's when he missed those two free throws.

So, like, this isn't news, but I cannot express to you how... Alarming is the wrong word, but just the clarity. When you watch it the next day and you go, this is... The last two plays were terrible. The Ben Simmons thing for eight minutes, isn't that great? And look, they gave up a million points in the fourth quarter too. So, next time I could do the defensive possessions, but I'm not going to.

So, Rudy, I know you want to do a little Doc Rivers here. So let it fly, son. I think one of the first memories of you and I talking, and I think you disagreeing with me, was when I kind of brought up to you whether or not Doc was actually a great coach. And you were like, no, definitely is, definitely is, definitely is. And listen, I think the title in Boston is obviously great. But there are just so many blemishes now. And if they go on to lose this series,

he's going to have three of the worst playoff losses in the history of the NBA on his resume. And that's not even mentioning other ones down three, two. We just go through it really quickly because some of them are absolutely wild. Obviously, if they lose this, this is going to be terrible. Last year, they blew a 3-1 lead to the Nuggets, which was insane. 2015, they blew a 3-1 lead to the Rockets. Which is actually, I think, worse.

Totally different Clippers team. Yeah, exactly. It probably was worse. I know. But anyway. 2012 Celtics blew a 3-2 lead to the Heat. Now, some of, you could say, all right,

like that one. I'm not hearing it's a, it's amazing. They were even up three, two. That's fine. It's fine. It's fine.

It's still there. 2010 Celtics blew a three, two league to the Lakers. Again, you could, you could say that it's not totally on him, but it's still on his resume. 2009,

three, two league to the magic. What's up? And then this is the one people were throwing at me last night. I don't think this one's necessarily as bad because it was an 8-1 matchup, but when he was the 8 seed, he did blow a 3-1 lead as the Magic head coach to the number one seed

Pistons. And I almost think, Ryan, I told you I've been very honest with you about this. I don't trust Embiid. I don't trust Simmons. It was why I was pretty surprised that you picked them to win the East. And I almost feel like Doc is the worst head coach for this group because he has

that on his resume. So it's three guys, Embiid, Simmons, and Doc, all guys that I just don't know if I trust in these big time series. And I kind of feel like it's rearing its ugly head again. I would disagree with some of the long lead resume stuff with you, but you're right.

I mean, if he blows this one, I mean, Philadelphia is the better basketball team. Oh, it's not even close. I mean, I like Atlanta,

but it's funny how no one can stop themselves from saying it's not even close. It's close, but it's, it's closer than it's not even close. I'm not saying they're even, I think it's clear that Philadelphia is the better basketball team. So I think we're agreeing here,

but I just always laugh whenever there's like something that may be close. And then it's trumped with, yeah, it's clear that Philadelphia is the better basketball team. So I think we're agreeing here, but I just always laugh whenever there's like something that may be close and then it's trumped with, yeah, it's not even close. But when you blow two massive leads in, this series should be over. When you blow two massive leads like that, that to me is more about you than it is about the other team.

And like, shout out to the Hawks for coming back and obviously, you know, they made the Eastern Conference Finals. That's amazing. And Trey is making me eat a lot of my words because I just didn't think it was possible. I didn't think he could do this. But this, to me, is more about the Sixers than it is the Hawks. I just think something is wrong. We've talked about blowing the Sixers up for what feels like a decade now.

If this happens, I mean, I don't know what Darryl Morey is going to do. But clearly, clearly, I don't think Philly could let you bring these guys back next year. I just don't think there's no way. Well, there's a way if you don't like the trades, you think all the trades make you worse because they would still sit there and say, like, look at last year, the Sixers were a six seed, you know, and granted, they move some of the parts around it. But this year, they're the one seed. You know, last year, they couldn't win games on the road. So I'm not going to hear like, the team is structured better,

but Doc is better than Brett Brown. I think Doc's a good coach. And I think the funny thing about like, is he the wrong guy because he's had some of these breakdowns for a team that can't seem to get through it? And this could all change here. You know what I mean? You still got to be Atlanta and eliminate what we both think is a better team. When the other team's fighting to stay alive

and you already have that extra game in your back pocket, we see some weird things happen. But when Doc really laid into him after game four and kind of let him have it a little bit before game five in those moments. I was thinking, hey, that's great they have a guy like Doc because I'm not sure that many coaches can get away with that kind of tough love anymore in the league. I think that coaching job is so tough now in this league where guys just don't want to hear it from anybody. So if you're going to bring it and you're going to be critical and you're going to be critical publicly, and it wasn't like he was completely trashing him publicly, but he said things other guys wouldn't even venture to say. That's just how funny sports are because early in game five, when they're way up, I'm like, they're lucky they have a guy like

Doc who's like, doesn't give a shit and was just say what he's going to say to these guys. And it seems so wrong. And your point seems so much more valid after they blow the lead. And you're like, Hey, here's a guy who has a history of blowing these series leads, and he's the worst guy for him. So I'm not even telling you you're wrong on that one. I just think I disagree because I think he's a good coach, and he's got some bad stuff on his resume. And this will be... I don't know if

this will be worse than that Clippers-Houston one because that Clippers-Houston one, that was a dead Rockets team. Harden wasn't even in the game, and that's when they started to come back because that team, that Houston team was that messed up. So, um, you know, I guess you could point and say, oh, well, Embiid was hurt and whatever. You know, look, he wasn't hurt in the first half. He wasn't hurt. Like no one could do anything with him in the first half. I just think that they really struggled to find a way. Like this game has become, at least for me, you're never going to stop anybody anymore

with the way things are called, the shooting, the shot-making ability that players have. But it kind of becomes like, all right, you guys scored a bunch of points. Now what's up? That it's tight and that guys are fighting over screens and guys are really locked into what you're doing. And now we're later in the series,

so everybody's familiar with each other. And it's a lot like the Brooklyn, so everybody's familiar with each other. And it's a lot like the Brooklyn-Milwaukee game from Game 5. I thought Milwaukee's approach offensively was one of the worst approaches I've ever seen in recent memory because we all knew Harden, within minutes, was jammed up with a hamstring.

He was tentative. He couldn't really move. And the Bucs, I think, were're up immediately like 9-2, 10-2, something like that. And they had done it all without attacking Harden. So their offense was working great. They had 87 points, I think, through three quarters. So you're watching it going, all right, is it really that big of a deal that they're not attacking Harden? And I think it spoke to a lack of intelligence on their approach. And some of it's obviously Coach Budd. A lot of it's on him. But Drew Holiday, who was a guy we all really like. And you go, can you ever imagine a game where Chris Paul wouldn't be just attacking James Harden and exposing him? And the Bucks just didn't have

any interest in doing it to Harden. And Drew Holiday, at some point, you'd think, I swear, if I'm ever sentenced to death by a firing squad, I hope Coach Budenholzer is one of the shooters. Because he'll just miss on purpose. He'll be like, ah, we don't want to do that to Rye. Because that's... And coaches are so stubborn sometimes. They're just like, well, we don't want to change who we are. Actually, you do.

End of not... You're five out with Durant, and you don't send a double to him after Durant has one of the great games in his historic career, which, you know, unfortunately my negative focus on the Bucs takes away. But like, what am I going to do?

Tweet wow? You know, the night Durant goes nuts because I was just sitting there in disbelief watching this Bucs team go, so this is really what you guys are going to do? Like, this is what you're going to do? And it's made me completely change. And it was after game three. I felt better about them when they were down 2-0 than when they were down 2-1 because I go, I can't believe just the lack of

basketball IQ. And it's in those moments, much like we saw at the end of game five, Saruti, where you're like, all right, you guys scored a bunch of points and you got all these really good players. Okay, now here we go. Like six minutes to go, four minutes to go, two minutes to go. What kinds of decisions are you guys going to be making on the offensive side? Your per 100s are awesome, but what are you in these moments? Both

Philly and Milwaukee have shown that those are not moments where they thrive. Was it last year that Simmons said that, and this is Bill Simmons, that the Celtics window, their best chance to win a title was last year, right? Yes.

I kind of feel like, can you say the same about this year with Milwaukee and Philly, given what the nets are going through right now? Like the nets, this is, this is probably the ripest they are for the picking. And if it doesn't happen this year, I mean,

they're probably going to be better next year. I mean, two of those guys being hurt. Like, if you're Philly, this was your chance. Like, you're going to play, you could play a beat up. You're either going to play a Bucs team that I don't think anybody has any faith in, now at least,

or you're going to play a beat up Nets team with one star who's obviously maybe the best player on the planet, but two guys that are banged up and one of them might not even play. I just think they're going to look back at this and go, this might have been our thing. This might have been our window.

They're still too young with whatever the asset Ben Simmons is. As I said before, they stay up in game five, win by 15. Today, is Philly going to win a title because Kawhi's gone, which is a weird story in itself where he's gone for this series against Utah, but then you're thinking, all right, well, Utah's good to go, and then Paul George has a terrific game, and

they've figured out Utah by going small. Now, Gobert, you can put him in the Simmons category of, okay, I know I'm supposed to think you're a superstar, but you're not. You're just not. And you don't get to have 20 of them, guys. And so you factor that in. And now the Chris Paul COVID thing, there's never been a more open window for anybody. I mean, there's likely going to be a team that wins this title that all of us are going to have all these takes that look stupid and mean, there's likely going to be a team that wins this title that all of us are

going to have all these takes that look stupid and mean because it's changed every 24 hours. And the reason I didn't pick the Nets partially was for the reasons that you just brought up. Like, oh, wait, Kyrie gets hurt all the time. Durant gets hurt a lot. Is it really going to work where you play eight games together in the regular season? You're just going to run through everybody. And there are moments through the playoffs playoffs I'm like, I think they are. And then Kyrie gets hurt again. And so you're like, oh, okay. And then Harden,

who usually plays all the time, but I don't know if coming into this season completely out of shape helps you. Maybe with him it doesn't even matter because that's how we felt when he was on a roll and he was almost like an MVP candidate because you're like, this guy doesn't even need to be in shape.

But you wonder if that takes a toll on you later on in the season. But credit to him for even going out there when he looks so diminished, but watching a Bucs team not even bother. Like, I just, I kept watching that game thinking, the idea that Chris Paul would let this happen, where you're like, yeah, just stick Harden in the corner. We're not even going to bother with you, man.

Like, we know you're hurt. Paul would be like, hey, come on up from the corner. We're going to set a little screen, and we're going to make this 48 minutes. This is going to be a tough one for you, bud. You're not going to have fun. And that's why I think there's a difference between, maybe more than ever,

between guys who put up stats in the regular season, who are regular season stars, and guys that I just trust in a playoff series. And, you know, KD's one of those guys. I would put Chris Paul in. I know you would too. I know we're probably going to's one of those guys. I would put Chris Paul in. I know you would too. I know we're probably going to get shit for that, but I would put Chris Paul in that category.

I think he's a guy that I would go to war with and I'd be comfortable with it. I might not win, but I'd be comfortable with it. Obviously, you have LeBron, Steph, Kawhi's out, but I'd put him in that category. Then everybody else, like the Giannis' of the world, the MBs, the Westbrooks, you could throw Harden into that category.

These are just guys that I know they're going to put up stats in the regular season, but I just, I don't, I'm going to, if they ever win a title as the number one player on their team, I'll tip my cap to them. That's great. But I'm just, I don't think I'm ever going to pick them or be comfortable with that. And I think there's a huge gap between guys that I trust and guys that I don't trust, even though there are some big, crazy regular season numbers going on by some of these guys. Yeah, look, I've been on that, that offensive thing now for a little while. And here's the thing. know there are some big crazy regular season numbers going on by some of these guys yeah look

i've been on that that offensive thing now for a little while and here's the thing i would agree with you on some of the guys i have more doubts about than that tier one group because like let's do it let's just do it we were going to do this before the chris paul thing we're going to do it today but we can be quick about it if you could have any player for one game to win a playoff game how many guys are you picking before you take chris pa? This is before we found out about the COVID situation, which we're going to get to here in a second, but it would be LeBron. It would be Durant.

It would be Kawhi. Steph. It's obviously Steph. You know, I'd love to put Anthony Davis in there, but the injury part, look, he's, go look at some of the numbers. Look at some of the numbers that he put up last year

in the playoffs, all right? And yes, game one against Phoenix when he was just like, hey, what's wrong with you? And then he comes back and shows you. So look, Anthony Davis is not in this group. I just think there's a,

there's a little bit more consistency. Go ahead. I think he needs a Chris Paul, though. Like, I think he needs that guy who's like, you know, who's an MF who is going to say, I need the ball in a big spot. Because there are times when AD kind of floats in and out of games, doesn't show up and like, yeah, like he could. Yeah, that's

fine. That's fine. So I'm not going to push it. That makes me nervous. You know who's the guy who I would actually throw in this category? And I might get some crap for this. I would take Lord. I just I don't think his team's good enough. That's why I think they don't win the playoffs as much as they should. That dude is not afraid ever. I would put Lillard in that category.

No problem with that. I have no problem with that. I think that's the group. That's it. Now, where are we at? The Chris Paul thing, I was hoping I'd have a little bit more information on it because it seems a little weird. Here's a couple things. Indefinite, the word needs rebranding because as soon little bit more information on it because it seems a little weird. Here's a couple of things. Indefinite, the word needs rebranding because as soon as you hear indefinite, it's like, ah.

I mean, there's a version of the Utah Clippers thing going seven. Which doesn't seem likely now as they go home because it really feels like the Clippers just figured them out. And if Mitchell, who's saying after the game, I can't move. Well, he can move a little bit, but he's limited. And that was a weird game, too, because both teams are absolutely on fire NBA Jam style. And I remember just kind of sitting in the hotel going,

OK, but what's this game going to look like once everybody starts to miss shots? Like, what's this game like once this ridiculous first half is over where no one's missing? What's the game going to look like? And again, credit to Reggie Jackson,

too, for bringing it. Yeah, I was gonna say, you're going to get you're going to get that kind of production from man and Reggie Jackson again. I don't know. That's why I don't know. I think it could go seven. I don't think it's that ridiculous to see the Jazz winning that game. I mean, it depends on Mitchell. You're 100% right.

I heard a story. The Utah Jazz team store started taking down some of the Go-Bear jerseys after that man dunked. I can't confirm that. But that man dunked, I can't confirm that, but that man dunked, which wasn't even clean, but the fact that it even happened, and that was the decision that he made, because that's, by the way, what they're doing, too, is they're running it, so Gobert's stuck

guarding the guy in the three-point corner, and then they would run it to the right side, and Gobert's shading over to help, and then they would just throw it into the corner, and it didn't necessarily work all the time, but it's just something to look for in game six where when they're small again which is going to be basically the entire game like they have gobert worrying about a guy behind him in the three-point corner to the left side knowing he still has to like stay honest with it but also

trying to help whatever drive side it is on the on the other side it sucks it sucks it's a tough spot for gobert being um so i don't know what's going to happen with chris paul you know i know people were saying yesterday hey he's vaccinated so we'll just go with that i don't i don't know enough about it um but i don't think this just means he's done done and if it's the clippers without kawaii you know can can he get back in the middle of the series i I don't know. And by the time this podcast comes out, maybe even this commentary could be dated. But here's one thing I would add to the Chris Paul discussion, because there was a lot of jokes.

And obviously, you know, it's going to happen where LeBron goes to the tequila party and then he's not in protocol because everybody was like, no, we're good with it. And I don't want to get into whether or not guys are vaccinated and all that kind of stuff. But then it was like, oh, well, Chris Paul has held to this different standard, which, again, could be two things. That could be true. It also could be the NBA investigated the LeBron thing and actually felt okay about it. Possibility.

I don't know anyone who wants to believe that, like, do you think the least devious thing could have actually happened? But I'd end with this. If there is one player in the NBA that's going to get some preferential treatment when it comes to this stuff, like, oh, hey, we tested somebody again, and he's good to go, he's good to go,

we'd agree LeBron's the first player. Chris Paul's the second. You want to talk about juice and having power as a player? So it's not like, hey, there's a set of rules for LeBron, and then nobody else gets those. If we were doing a curve, Chris Paul would be very high up on that list. Okay, our first interview we're going to do with Jarrett Jack.

And I just want to let everybody know, we taped this prior to the news of learning that Chris Paul was in protocol. As everybody knows, I really like to draft. So I was watching a lot of the G League Ignite stuff and longtime NBA fans will know this guy, Jarrett Jack, who joins us, who was on that Ignite team for the 15-game season. And before we get to any of that, Jarrett, let's kind of start with where you're at. 37 years old now, been out of the league a couple years, had the rough ACL thing.

You played really well this year, and you're also kind of there mentoring, but you're also probably trying to figure out if you have any NBA future. So what's going on with you? You know, I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to give it one more year of playing basketball. I have some other options that I might dive into as far as coaching or maybe elevating to the front office. But, you know, time will tell. They tell me don't hang them up until you're fully done with it.

And I'm not quite sure if that's where I'm at yet. So just being patient, not trying to rush my decision, very much being selfish with it. I think I kind of deserve that after I've dedicated myself to the sport for the majority of my life.

And, you know, I'll see where it takes me. What does it take for a guy to have your NBA resume? You're a really good player for a long me. What does it take for a guy to have your NBA resume? You're a really good player for a long time. What does it take for you to go from waived in 18, kind of before the season was going to get started, and then accept the idea that you're going to come there and mentor these younger players

while still trying to keep your dream alive? What does it take from a guy like that? Well, in my situation, having my career, I think just hard work. I think that's the thing you always have to add to whomever you are, no matter how talented you are, no matter where you get drafted, no matter where you start. Or, you know, if you don't get drafted, that's something that's necessary just as a life skill, I think. Then also learning the craft, getting smarter every day, you know, understanding the nuances and what goes into the to being good at the game. Then you can learn how to manipulate the game and move the game around and kind of move people around at your leisure, especially with my position being a point guard.

I think it's very, very vital that you do that. And then secondly, you know, where I'm at with it now, man, getting to be around these young guys who are now trying to, you know, getting ready to go into the, to, to the draft process. And I remember when I was a young kid in that same situation and I didn't have somebody to kind of hit me to the learning curve. I kind of had to figure it out on my own, kind of had to bump my head a little bit or kind of just navigate the waters and see what worked and what didn't or whatever.

And that's where veterans such as myself, along with the other veterans that were put in place, that's what we're kind of here for. You know, the coach can, you know, coach you, quote unquote. But it's different when you're a guy out there with them and you can actually talk them through the process in real time. And I thought all of the guys responded really, really well. And I'm looking forward to see what happens come draft time. Is there a moment with your NBA background over 10 plus years in the league playing with all these superstars where you're like, this sucks? Now, granted, this year was challenging for a bunch of different reasons,

but do you have to get over that? Did you have that moment where you were like, man, I can't believe I'm not in the league. Um, you know, you, you, you can look at that however you want to look at it, but it's 440 some odd jobs. It's not that many when you really look at it. Um, from that, I guess from that magnifying glass a little bit. And for me to be fortunate enough to have one of those jobs for 14 years straight, no drop-offs in between. I mean, it's a blessing. It's something that doesn't happen often. And, you know,

obviously I would love to get another shot. I think I still have some basketball left playing in me. I think CP is doing a good job of showing everybody that age isn't always a deterrent. It can be an assistant to a degree as you get older in age. I think you make some adjustments to still allow yourself to be effective. We'll see what happens. I wanted to ask you about chris paul um because that you were traded in warlands what in 2010 and that was always kind of i've always

kind of laughed whenever i've heard like oh you know jack and paul are really close so that's why the franchise did it because they want to keep him happy and then he was like no i still i still want to be true like a lot of times you'll see trades happen and they'll think like the best friend connection will keep a guy somewhere he wants to go what was that like from your perspective meaning you get sent there and you're one of his best friends knowing that he still probably had other plans me and cp met probably i probably was like 12 or 13 and i think he's a year younger than me uh we i happened to play in a tournament in north carolina i played pretty well. And him and his dad came up to me after the game. And we were talking just whatever, just talking basketball.

And I remember when we first played him in college, because we both played in ACC, he walked up to me. He was like, man, what's up? And I'm looking at him like, I don't know you, but I know of you, what's going on. And he was like, man, you don't even remember, do you? And I'm like, remember what, man? What are you talking about?

And he was like, man, you remember that tournament? And I'm like, you were the kid with his dad, bro. So it was kind of like a full, kind of like a 360, a little bit. But back to what you were saying, getting traded and getting the opportunity to play together in New Orleans was amazing. Getting to watch Chris, the way he's grown from our days playing in college to a first ballot future Hall of Famer, how he elevates every situation he goes to.

It's just amazing to watch, man. And he's an even better person. I know some people kind of have things to say about Chris, but it all comes from a genuine, really, really good place. And maybe I have the insight to kind of have things to say about Chris, but it all comes from a genuine, really, really good place. And maybe I have the insight to kind of understand that because everybody is not going to understand your methods. That's just that's just life. You know what I mean? But, you know, to watch him grow as a leader, as a person, a father, husband, whatever you want to call it. You know, it's been great, great, great, great to watch.

But for him, when he had other plans to go to LA, I actually was sitting next to him when that whole thing happened. When the whole trade happened and then... To the Lakers, the first time? Okay, so what happened? To the Lakers, and then when they got rescinded, I'm sitting next to him. Mind you, we're at his place in New Orleans

and his wife is packing up, they're putting all the tape on the boxes or whatever. And I'm just sitting there watching TV. Of course, this is breaking news all over the place. CP's about to play with Kobe and Pow and the whole thing. So I'm just sitting there kind of watching that, whatever, and he's on the phone.

And he hung up the phone. He was like, yo, did you hear that? And I'm like, nah. He's like, bro, they just said I can't get traded. I said, man, you're lying. He very much was at practice the next day. Shortly

thereafter, he made his way to the Clippers. I'm glad he got to go into a situation where he can still be competitive. That was crazy um what did what did you think of that like what were you guys talking about did you feel like other owners were like no that's not happening i mean the league was able to use the unprecedented situation of saying the league owned the team and then there wasn't enough trade value but how did you guys feel about it for real um i mean i don't know i mean mean, you can kind of feel away personally. Like, yo, why are they doing this to me?

All these other trades that happened, and they're going to hold my trade up. You can kind of feel away about that. Selfishly, for me, I was like, yo, man, I love playing with CP. CP did one of the best. He had a moment for me that I probably have never really told people before we were playing actually against the Lakers in the playoffs and

big possession I think we might have been up one or two and we're about 12 seconds left and coach Monte Williams is drawing up a play and he's trying to figure out drawing up something and cp stopped in the middle of the huddle mind you i'm not in the game cp stopped in the middle of the huddle he was like yo man i need j jack in the game

and this is in the middle like i said very tense moments fourth quarter and coach looked at me he was like like, yo, get in the game. And I was like, all right. And CP went into an ISO thing. And he kind of got stuck in the air. And I just was cutting through the basket. I was cutting just maybe I could get a tip in or something. And he got stuck.

He threw the ball at me. And I kind of hit this little fall away that kind of iced the game in the playoffs. And we won that game. And I was like, I always, well, I never told him publicly, but I was like, man, you gave me one of my, that was an amazing moment just, you know, from me to you, because you didn't have to do that.

You could have rocked with whoever else was in the game, but for whatever reason, man, you grabbed me and pulled me in and I was just happy I could come through for you. That, yeah, it's crazy. That's 2011. And that was, you know, a Lakers team that was still really good

now you know i know how much i love chris paul i you know i spend probably too much time talking about it because i just appreciate you know i think the nastiness of other people not liking him a lot of it's based on the competitiveness you know some of the shit he does in a game which i'll admit even though i'm a huge chris paul fan i'll be like man why do you have to just stop and have the big guy run up you but then again how come people keep calling it so you know you're gonna get away with it you're gonna get away with it but can you give me like a really educated basketball answer on like what separates him from so many other point guards like what is it about what he does we know he can handle we know he's quick we know he can shoot we know but like what do you see

how do you guys talk about the game where you know how special he is? The thing about Chris that probably separates him from the majority of people. Like, I think we all would say he's like ultra talented, right? As talented as he is, he's just as smart. And he's probably more competitive than he is talented. Which is kind of like a wild thought. You know what I mean? And I think those three ingredients for him, I think that's what makes him who he is. And I think if you're so competitive and you're really, really smart and then on top of that, you're talented, you work hard. And when you get around people that don't reciprocate that, yeah, you might not, you might give them a look or you might talk to them in a tone that maybe they don't really appreciate.

But it's all for the betterment of, you know, I'm trying to win at the end of it. That's all I'm trying to do. I'm trying to win. And he gets, I think he gets so competitive and so worked up that he gets into his things with the refs at times or other players or whatever. But it is all from just a place of I'm trying to win at all costs. And I'm not trying to hurt nobody. I'm not trying to do anything dirty. I know people say that from time to time, but I'm trying to win like everything I got. I'm trying to use everything I can to try and win. That's it.

I'm actually going to try. I had this for later because I want to get to the G League stuff again here. But because of that great, you know, set of stories there, give me how that compared to like you had Steph in his fourth year Golden State. It was his first breakout year was after the ankle injury. So he'd been in and that was like the first sign I thought of watching Golden State and you fit in perfectly with him too kind of closing games even though you didn't start but is there a Steph moment in that season or the thing that you tell your buddies about like well this is when I knew I mean

he was already good but that was that felt okay, this team might actually be set up for something here. If I had to probably pinpoint a game where it just was out of control, probably the game in Madison Square Garden when he had 54. And that's when he was just hitting some shots. I'm like, yo, man,

what was... And you're in the midst of it like man what is going on he's hitting shots that I've never seen people hit in the history of the league you know what I mean and now you're like looking at him and I'm

like man this is a incredible performance by such a young kid coming in and I want to say that night man we were sure And I want to say that night, man, we were shorthanded. I want to say we had like seven people because we got a bunch of guys got suspended because we got into a little kerfuffle, if you will, in Indiana. So we very much come in there and, you know, we could have folded and could have got blown out whatever chart chalked it up but yeah man he came in there and put on a hell of a performance hell of a performance and that's when i was like nah this guy can make some he can do some things

that the game hasn't seen yet can you give me i'm gonna ask this question where i i know the stuff i've heard here but everybody from the outside is usually fairly amazed Mark Jackson hasn't gotten another coaching gig. I know some people liked playing for him. I also know some people didn't like playing for him. And I think that makes the rounds. You were there a year and it was still Mark. What was your assessment of him, how the team responded to him and what, you know, the goods

and the good and the bad part of that season and why he hasn't been able to get another job in your assessment. I thought foundationally he laid the groundwork for what people know Golden State to be. You know, coming in, us as players, right, playing against Golden State, I'm going to tell you me personally, I used to just look at Golden State as a stat game. They're not going to play any defense.

They're going to shoot a lot of threes. The score is going to be in the high hundreds just because they play so fast. They don't care about defense. They don't care if they turn the ball over. It's just a very much free-flowing, I'm going to just try to outscore you type of game, right? And when we got there or when Coach Jackson got there, defense was very much at the forefront. Having a pride,

a sense of pride, a bit of a change in culture, being physical. And, you know, the offense would take care of itself because we had, you know, talented, very talented and capable people, but we're going to use our defense to turn into offense and then, you know,

things like that. So what he was able to put in place, holding people accountable, you know, that that didn't seem like that was something that was a pillar of what, what that organization was doing at the time. Why he hasn't been able to get another job. I think some things might have happened that maybe us as players probably weren't privy to. And clearly decisions on behalf of that,

you know, people have opted not to put him in place. But I think if he was able to get another job, I think he would do another excellent job wherever he would go. You know, it sucks because people should able to get another job. I think he would do another excellent job wherever he would go. It sucks because people should base it off your body of work. And his body of work is comparable

to damn near anybody other than the fact that he doesn't have a championship. So not getting another shot, I mean, it sucks. I think everybody that was there during his tenure would speak highly of him. I guess we'll just keep our fingers crossed, man, hopefully. And, you know, maybe if I'm a head coach one day,

maybe I'll bring him as my assistant or something. Yeah, but then if you get the ownership is, like, on the fence about you a couple years in, they'll be like, okay, we can have Mark take over because he has had coaching experience. So you don't know if you, you know, you got to get worried about that sometimes. No,

not really, man. I'm, I'm a person, man. Honestly, if it's for me, it's going to be for me.

If, if, if it wasn't for me and my time was only meant to be there for very few and they want the next person in line to get him a shot it is what it is you know i'm saying like me holding on to it or or feeling away about that like i had an opportunity to do the gig and obviously i didn't do a good enough job or what somebody else may thought was a good enough job and man you move on that's it hopefully and if i was in the situation hopefully i try to get better at my weak points and maybe i get another shot at something and if i was in the situation hopefully i try to get better at my weak points

and maybe i get another shot at something and hopefully i'll do a better job maybe next time but looking over my shoulder man i don't live my life that way and i think that's actually why this is a good transition and watching you in those g league games this year with ignite because i don't know that a guy with your nba resume would have been as willing to adapt to what that team was about. And, you know, we're going to talk Jalen Green and Jonathan Kaminga. We're talking about two, not just lottery picks, potentially top five picks playing on this team. Jalen's leading scorer, Kaminga second, scoring the stats are terrific. I mean, Kaminga didn't shoot it all that great.

But you could, I could see with your game that you're like, this isn't about me right now. And I don't, I commend you because every time I'd watch you in these possessions, I'd be like, man, he is totally bought into what they're trying to do for these kids and what they're trying to do for the G league and ignite in a much bigger way than these 15 games. And you deserve a lot of credit for it because you're still a really good player. You shot it again. Great. You know what I mean? So like you're, I'm sure you're, as we talked about at the top like hey other guys would not have handled that the same way they would have gotten pissed they would have taken more shots

and be like this is about me getting the tape out there to get back in the league so give me let's start with jaylen give me your jaylen green scattering report on him as a player and as your Jalen, incredible athlete, very, very quick first step. He was the one probably I took under my wing probably the most. A sponge. The very first day I got there, he came to me wanting to watch film, wanting to ask questions, very uh wants to be good and and wants to get gain knowledge from people in place to to help expedite that process um you know gets great elevation on his jump shot um i think the thing he probably has probably will have to work on the most is you know getting a

little bit stronger um and then just getting used to the bumps of the NBA. You know, you're going to get bumped by bigger, physical, more physical, you know, people now. Rather than people that maybe you had the physical advantage or were comparable to your age. So, you know, I think he has a bright, bright, bright future wherever he goes. I think he'll be definitely a nice shooting guard piece for whatever team decides to build around him. And, you know, I think he'll be a hell of a pro. Give me your breakdown then at Kaminga. Kaminga, I think he has an opportunity to be a really, really good three and D guy in NBA. You know, he has the tools, he has the size, long arms, length, athleticism. I think with just

a minor adjustment, man, I think he can shoot the hell out of the ball. Like his mechanics are really, really good. I think he just has to work on his arc a little bit as he kind of shoots it on a bit of a straight line at this present moment. But he too, man, he's another guy that's a hell of a straight line driver. If he gets his shoulders past you, man, he can elevate and get to the rim. Or he can get in those what I call Kawhi areas. Kind of right at the free throw line, the elbows, the dotted line area, man. Do some damage and make the defense have to respect his ability to get in there. With Kaminga, you know,

it's, it's more raw. I think you would agree. Right. And I think the thing that you look at the age and you go, okay, this body type, like we've seen players get drafted really high.

And you think like, I just wish you were better at basketball. And then you, you completely whiff. But I think we've seen more and more players come along recently and develop. So that this foundation of the body is there. I don't even think, I'm with you, I don't think his shot is broken.

The shooting numbers are terrible. He just kept taking the shots. So it was more of a shot. I'll ask you this, and I already think I know the answer, but it's a shot selection decision problem more than it is that he just flat out can't shoot. Is that something you say to him, or is it with you and a guy like Brian Shaw, coaching the team, where you're thinking, hey, let him make the mistakes in the shot selection.

We want him comfortable more than we want him thinking there's things that he's not supposed to do out there because I think it's still a developmental league we're talking about. The one thing that I always just tried to express to all of the young guys was, you don't have to press. I'm going to make sure, and I know what this is all about.

I've been through this process. I know what everybody wants from it. I know everybody wants to score 25. I know everybody wants to be on top 10. They want to do it all today. They don't want to do it next month. I'm saying, please just put your faith in me that I'm going to put or do my best to put everybody in position to be evaluated and

highlighted the way you want to be seen and the way I know they want you to be seen as well. So, you know, and granted, I was only there. We were only together two weeks before we went to Orlando. So they don't know me all that well so they could very be like yeah okay man whatever you know what i mean which i get um but and they were cool they both they both had a great attitude towards you oh everybody all four of those guys they were they were young guys very much uh always kept their ears turned on um being receptive to the direction, being taught to them. But yeah, that was my whole thing, man.

Don't go out there trying to press and trying to, you know, conquer this thing in one day. That's not, that's going to hurt your stock more than that's going to help what you're trying to do. So that's where I thought I kind of came in and tried to maneuver things,

tried to put them in all the places that, you know, I thought they could be successful. What was it like having Brian Shaw there who it feels like everybody gets along with? Oh, it's cool. Players, coach, easygoing guy. I never really had extensive conversations with him before other than, you know, playing against him, obviously seeing him around uh and having respect for him as a as a as a former player you know i've always been really really big on just showing love and gratitude for anybody that came before you uh in in any type of space so

you know i always had a just a respect level from a distance uh for him the whole time but getting to get in the play for him and getting to work with him. Very, very smart guy. Definitely holds guys accountable, but very enjoyable to play for. How big is the talent gap between the G League showcase that fans would be watching and even the top college basketball teams in the tournament? basketball teams in the tournament? See, that's kind of tough to say. And I say it from a standpoint of because of COVID this year, I know the guys weren't.

I'll give you a little bit of insight, right? So because of COVID and when I got to the team, which was in January, like January 15th, and we left for the bubble on the 31st, prior to that, those four young guys, they only had 10 people together three times. So for those young kids to go into a situation where they're playing professional basketball against some guys who might be seven, eight years their senior, and to perform the way they did, and to make the playoffs,

and to start off 4-0, they did incredible. Like, I used to grab them and be like, I don't really understand if y'all know how amazing what you guys are doing. Like, all you guys, y'all were in high school six months ago. Because of this pandemic situation, you guys didn't have a lot

of repetitions to even get you guys used to what you're about to play in a couple weeks and then you still came out here and in the midst of it you guys came out here play amazing basketball competitive basketball winning basketball and I thought gave all you guys an opportunity to do yourself some good when this draft process comes around. So, you know, if that doesn't speak to the work that they put in and understanding and not looking like a fish out of water, so to speak, you know what I mean? I think they should be super commended, complimented. I think a lot of that goes to B. Shaw as well. You know, keeping the group together

um in all aspects and you know i was super proud of them yeah and you're also i believe you're talking to isaiah todd right and then uh nicks uh the other two guys and nicks was out of alaska um and then vegas and i'll tell you when i watch it todd shows up a lot like when you're watching for you and you're watching for cominga and you're watching for Green um Todd's presence alone like you know he's young but he he carries himself like a big guy that's been big for a while and I was impressed with his physical style of play and he wasn't trying to pretend he was something he wasn't and you're also realizing all the other shots are going to those other guys so um I thought both of those guys show a lot of flashes and I think it's you know it's the very beginning in a way you guys a lot of flashes. And I think it's the very beginning.

In a way, you guys are kind of pioneers this year. It's the beginning of what's going to become the norm for a handful. It's not going to ruin college basketball or anything like that, but you're just going to see more guys go on this path. And when I would jump back and forth from draft stuff and even watching a Gonzaga or a Baylor game, and as good as those teams were, I still think the talent level, I think there's a pretty significant gap.

Again, that's just me from the outside watching it, but I just thought there was more talent, more size, and there'll be guys coming off the bench who are like, oh, that dude's still around.

You know what I mean? So I think you deserve a lot of credit for it this year. You know, you just put, you just had the right approach to it, and I really, you know, I've said it a couple times already,

but I don't know as many guys would have handled it the way you handled it. So hopefully those young guys learned something from you and we appreciate your time. Oh, no problem. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Coming up after the break, we got Luke Wilson, who is one of my favorites going all the way back to Bottle Rocket.

And that's what I want to do a ton of time on. So I enjoyed the time that we did get with him. If you haven't seen Bottle Rocket, it's one of my all time favorites. I talk about it all the time. And so we're going to talk about his new movie coming out and also that classic from the 90s 12 mighty orphans comes out june 11th uh luke wilson and a really strong cast uh is is part of this group we know it's a true story the jim dent book came out you know a while back and uh luke joins us now look, this is an incredible true story.

I know there's probably backstory for your understanding of it and the book and all that, but like, where were you in kind of the timeline of learning about it and learning about the main character you play here, Rusty Russell, who coaches this group of orphans and leads them to quite a run as a high school football team in Texas? Yeah, well, the book was a bestseller, but somehow I missed it. I always really enjoy sports books and sports biographies, but somehow I missed it. So when I signed on to do the movie, I had quite a few friends who were like, yeah, I read the book, loved it.

And then older people, friends of my parents had read the book as well. So, yeah, it was fun for me to then read. I read the script first and then read Jim Dent's book. And yeah, as I began to learn more about it, it was really seemed unbelievable and also was one of those things where, you know, if it had been fictional, you'd have thought it seemed kind of over the top, like, wow, really did kind of capture the nation. And FDR was really into the team. And people came from, you know, all over the country to try and go to these games. And, you know, they have 20,000 people at a game, like overflowing stadiums and the trains would be packed. And so, yeah, it was a pretty incredible story to learn about, especially having missed the book somehow.

Yeah. I don't know. I'm with you. I was researching. I was like, wait, what happened? And I knew about Junction Boys. I knew about the author and I knew all about this stuff. And then you kind of find out and you're right. I mean, the element of why this coach that you play decides to leave a pretty prestigious gig and go, you know, I'm going to go ahead and coach this, this group of orphans that don't even have shoes and have a football. And then you kind of, I don't know how much of the movie you want to give away, but the twist, like when you find out about the coach's own background and there's motivation behind it, I mean, it it. I mean, this is made to be a movie. So it makes sense.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's fine to say that, yeah, you learn that Rusty Russell, my character, was an orphan himself. like a different era with a different breed of person that was kind of so kind of quiet and dignified and kind of selfless to where Rusty Russell, he'd gone to World War, he was an orphan, he'd gone to World War One, he'd lost his brother there, Rusty had, you know, what today we'd consider to be PTSD. And then, you know, had gone to become a coach and a teacher at this kind of prestigious school district outside of Dallas in Temple, Texas, with a good football team. And then he left it all behind and took a real chance with his wife, Juanita, and their baby to take over this orphanage. this orphanage. And I mean, that's what I would kind of remind myself, you know, while working on the movie is to think like, you know, you know, this Rusty Russell didn't know this was a feel good story and that it has kind of a happy ending. Like he was taking over,

you know, a dilapidated school with, you know, damaged kids. And yeah, there was no happy ending on the horizon when he got into this. When I was looking at some of the scenes, and this can be something like whenever I think of The Revenant, when you saw The Revenant in the theater, you were cold. You felt like you were outside.

The lighting, the way you're just cold the whole time. In just the short clips I've seen of this, it feels like that Texas heat, it feels like the attention to detail of what it would be like to be at an orphanage and coaching kids that had no clue with no resources. It feels like that part of this is absolutely nailed. Did you feel that during those scenes?

Because it feels very, like sports can get lost very quickly on a screen. And I think this stays very true to probably what that experience was like. Yeah, I definitely felt that, Ryan. And I was just kind of reading about how Robert Towne, the screenwriter, had written Chinatown because he'd written an article, he'd read an article about how all these, this was in the early 70s, he'd read an article about how all these, this was in the early 70s, he read an article about how all these buildings from the 1930s were still around in Los Angeles if you just went to look for them. And he thought, gosh, you could do a detective story, you know, and shoot it today and have it, you know, be the 30s using these locations. And this is kind of that same idea where we weren't able to use the original

orphanage just because they'd kind of changed it and modernized it and they'd kind of built stuff around it. But we found this orphanage right outside Fort Worth, kind of on this windswept hill, and it's called the Pythian Home, and they take care of the children of families that are experiencing different hardships. They're not orphans, but while the parents or parent is experiencing some kind of hardship, their kids can spend time at the Pythian Home. And that's what we used as the orphanage. And yeah, when you'd be out there on just on a hot, you know, October afternoon in the dust and the dirt shooting these scenes and, you know, there's cattle in the background and, you know, pump jacks in the background, you really kind of felt like you were back in that era. And, you know, it's

the same thing, like I've kind of had it happen on, you know, the few Westerns I've gotten the chance to do when you get the chance to be out in the country, and you're on a horse, and you can't see anything like it's, it's kind of an exciting feeling. And I, I think that people will kind of respond to just visually how well it works in terms of capturing that kind of Dust Bowl, Depression-era look. This cast is loaded. You get Robert Duvall, Martin Sheen. I don't know clearly how many days of shooting there was. I always like to ask guys this question, and it might be a stupid one, but you've been doing this a long time, right? You're very successful. And then, you know, it's Robert Du stupid one, but you've been doing this a long time, right? You're very successful. And then, you know, it's Robert Duvall, it's Martin Sheen. Is there a moment where you're like, okay,

whatever scene, like I really want to impress this guy or are you secure enough where you're like, ah, whatever, I'll just do my thing. I don't, I imagine everybody's different with that. It's not cool to say, hey, I was maybe a little like, I wanted to do something a little extra, but what was that like for you? Yeah, I mean, I've definitely had that happen where, you know, and that's to me, that's been probably the greatest thing for me about my career is like, I've gotten to work with

these guys that I grew up loving that my dad loved, like Nick Nolte or Gene Hackman or Jeff Bridges and James Kahn, like just all these great guys I've gotten to be in scenes with them where I definitely have had that thing where I've been doing a scene and I you know they say like the most important thing an actor can do is listen like to me it's just like I'm out on the tundra I'm not hearing anything I'm just like looking at this like I'm like wow this is Nick Nolte this is unbelievable like what a face man and then it's like wow he stopped talking does that mean it's my line now like not not the yeah but anyhow I've had that that happen a lot and definitely like I wasn't even working the day that Robert Duvall worked.

And he was just there for one day. Martin Sheens, you know, he's one of the leads in the movie. So he was there all the time. But the day that Robert Duvall worked, it was just incredible to go see him. And again, he's a guy where Tender Mercies is, you know, in one of my favorite movies of all time. So to get to see someone like that in person on a set

is, yeah, it just, it never gets old. And those guys really, you realize they are who they are for a reason. It's the way they look. It's the way they sound.

It's their ideas, just great ideas. And, uh, and also just, you know, hardworking guys, you know, I want to ask you, cause when you say, Hey, this is one of the great things in my career. Um, I would, I would say it's bottle rocket. It's one of my five favorite movies. It'll never be jumped in that group. Uh, I remember seeing it in college and it wasn't, you know, it's hard to describe why I like it so much. I just, I love it. I love it. And obviously I love all the Wes Anderson stuff that you've done with him. I know it was a short in 1994, making a new movie in 96.

You would have to have known about movies because I remember being in college like, have you heard about this movie? Bottle Rock? You're like, get to check this out. You guys are in your you know I think you're mid-20s at that point what was that like can you take us back to that timeline of like this weird little black and white shorts gonna be a movie and now like I'm famous in a couple years yeah I mean I'll try and I'll try and tell you in a nutshell, but it is incredible that it ever got made because, you know, we had it. Owen and Wes had a whole script written. We couldn't get the money to do that.

And this guy, Kit Carson, said, you know, there's this place Sundance and they show shorts. So if you guys can make a self-contained short, you know, maybe 10 minutes, 15 minutes, do that. And then we'll try and submit it to Sundance. So we did that, got accepted to Sundance. And then this woman named Barbara Boyle, a producer, saw it and liked it. And she took it to a woman she knew named Barbara Boyle, who at the time was James L. Brooks's right hand man. Brooks is right hand man. James L. Brooks is the great writer, director of, you know, Terms of Endearment and Broadcast News and as good as it gets and produces The Simpsons. So then he came on board and he worked with Owen and Wes on the script. And at the same time,

he was working with us. He was also doing this movie, All Do Anything, which was this kind of notorious movie with Nick Nolte, where it was going to be a musical with all these musical numbers and then they scrapped all the music and just had to be a regular movie so all this kind of turmoil was going on with him while he was helping us and it was that thing of like we we learned like okay we're you guys are close to getting the green light on this so it's all about like okay close to getting the green light on this. So it was all about like, okay, we might get the green light. When's that going to happen? And then,

then we did get the green light to make the movie and I was like, okay, we're going to get to make this. This is great. And then Columbia came back and said, okay, just a little change is we will make the movie, but we just don't want to make it with these guys acting in it. And I was always, and your brother had co-wrote it with Wes. And,

and my, my reaction at the time was, seems very reasonable. Like, you know, Wes directs it. We can work on it, you know,

do locations, do whatever. We'll get them on the next one. Everyone's like, Luke, what are you talking about? It's like, we, we come all this way and you're gonna like say that but that's fine and then so we did get the chance to make the movie but i that's why i always find it funny about you know people loving bottle rocket and i mean it makes me think about that bob dylan line

about people telling him like you, they love blood on the tracks and him saying like, I don't understand how people can get joy out of something that caused so much pain. And I'll think about for me on Bottle Rocket, and I don't know about Owen and Wes, but I know they felt some of this that we were aware that the studio didn't like the dailies. They didn't like the work that we were sending back every day, the different scenes and takes. And so there was kind of this feeling of melancholy,

like as we learn more about being on set and you got to love the guys on the crew and the cameraman and the sound guys and the locations guys and the grips and the electric guys where it was like this is great this is kind of what we've been looking for to to work like as a team doing something creative but then just having the feeling like this is it we're never going to get to do this again so to me it was a overriding feeling of kind of melancholy. And then the movie came out and, you know, it came and went in two weeks where I do remember Kenneth Duran in the L.A. Times gave it a really good review. But it came and went. And oh, and the other thing is, you know, we had all this kind of stuff happening like where the bottle rocket sure

had gotten accepted to Sundance but they didn't accept the feature which we none of us could believe you know they didn't they didn't want the feature and and and we thought like gosh we kind of developed it with Sundance now they don't want the finished product so we were getting all this kind of uh you know kind of getting negative feedback but and all this kind of, you know, kind of getting negative feedback. But and then gradually kind of things started to filter back. Like I can remember, like, you know, Sean Penn got in touch with Owen and Wes and we heard that Billy Bob Thornton loved the movie. And and then, you know, different people would start talking about the movie. And this, of course course was before streaming. So it really was kind of a word of mouth thing that you would then run into

people like yourself that would, would have really enjoyed it, which always, you know, I still find surprising. Yeah. I just didn't know. And I'll let you go after this and we'll give you the tag.

Cause I know you have to run, but I, I stopped and paused the scene where Dignan gets you out of the psych ward to read the notebook excerpts. Right. And it's so fucking brilliant because it's so stupid. And it's like the next, you know,

five years. And then when it says the next 25 years and the goals are when possible, meet people from foreign countries. So did Wes write those in the notebook? Did Owen do it? reshoot that we'd done kind of, I think, at James L. Brooks's encouragement, where at him, that's where he was such a, so such a kind of genius with movies and not using the word lightly, but a guy that can really track story. But he'd had us go back and do that beginning. But then through him having us do that, thenen and wess came up with that five-year plan and 25-year plan and yeah i think there is a certain if you have a certain kind of humor that that really hits you i know i just get degrees get honorary degrees and it's just it's for anyone that's ever seen the movie it's just hard to explain that it's these delusional characters that are all incredibly likable, even though they're doing stuff that makes them unlikable.

And it's just this simple, simple story. And it's, I've always loved the idea of the guys trying to be something they're never going to be, and they don't know it. And that's kind of what it always felt like. And you guys just nailed it. It's perfect. It's one of my favorite movies ever. It just always will of what it always felt like. And you guys just nailed it. It's perfect. It's one of my favorite movies ever. It just always will be. Yeah, I think. And we'd always kind of love those movies growing up, like kind of, you know, the aimless dreamers. And then that's kind

of what, what we tried to make a movie about. 12 Mighty Orphans, great Luke Wilson. Really appreciate this man. Thank you. Brian, thanks a ton. And I will tell Bob Moan I talked to you. Sounds good. I'll do the same. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari.

355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. I want to apologize in advance because of the taping window today.

We have no Kyle for life advice. And after we found out that he has experience at North Face jacket-stealing parties and that he wore a woman's large around campus. And once he found out he didn't care because he was like, I've been rocking it for months. So it's too late to go back now. So we know that Kyle is the gift that keeps on giving for life advice,

but, uh, we don't have them. So I know. So Rudy, you're not even going to bother, but you just, people are going to be mad at you.

So no, people are mad. I can't fill his shoes. Kyle's great. It is what it is, but sorry, here I am. It is what it is. There you go. Here we go.

You mentioned the vibe when a book guy walks into a bar. Wondering if that applies to crossword puzzle guy. Every Thursday, I head up to a brewery. He doesn't want me to say which one it is. Before his Candlepin Bowling League, which he said he definitely wanted me to share that part. Wow. So he said he usually goes for a run.

Hey, Candlepin, New England man. You don't understand it. I know you're from Connecticut, but I don't think you understand Candlepin. No, I don't. No. Rhode Island, South Shore. North Shore.

Usually go for a run beforehand and then finish with a 45-minute having a beer and doing the crossword. It's generally empty when I get there and a bit busy towards the tail end of my stay, usually anywhere inside the 5 to 6.30 window. He wants to know, am I in the clear? I do it on my phone,

so I suppose I just look like a text guy anyway. Hate being text guy, though, so usually the phone is flat for any passerbys to see. 58150. Respect. No, dude, you're fine. This isn't even, this is such an easy one that we decided to do it. Don't worry about it.

You're having a nice little micro brew in place. Decompress. Love doing crossword puzzles. Good for you. And you're good. I was talking about like, it's getting a little late and you're sitting at the bar reading a book

because in Mare of Easttown, Guy Pearce is reading a book, Sipping a Whiskey, and it's a little late to be doing that. So when you're doing that, you're kind of like, I want you to see that I'm doing it and hopefully someone will come up and talk to me. And like I said, my history as a bartender was that guy that would hang out a little bit later

by himself, read a book. There's another guy that used to do art and then try to like hand the art to people. But he was actually a really nice guy. I think he had a girlfriend too. But it still was a little weird for some other people. But yeah, there was a couple solo book guys that would roll in and then they would stay a little bit later. And I don't know, those guys never seem to be that great of a time. So you are not that guy. You're just doing crosswords and you're there 45 minutes and you're there really early too. And by the way, if you went there at 10 and had a beer by yourself and looked at your phone, I don't think you would stand out anyway. I think you'll be all right. So that was a simple one. We had a lot of pushback to my apparently insensitive advice and perhaps just flat out misunderstanding on the proposal

calendar. A lot of people chimed in and said, nope, Priscilla, you're wrong here. calendar. A lot of people chimed in and said, nope, Priscilla, you're wrong here. So we'll read one. All caps, do not propose that quickly before your buddy's wedding. I got engaged in October 2020, looking to get married in October 21. Everything's great. I have a younger brother. I'm 25. He's 23. We've been with our respective girlfriends over five years. That's two young dudes who've been with their ladies for a long time. You guys, you guys know exactly what you want and you go for it. Love that about you too. Needless to say, being the first to be engaged, but the pressure of my brother to pop the question because he's 23. Where are you guys? Where are you guys from? Norway in the 1600s.

I don't even know what the average marriage age in Norway is. So I'm just thinking, like I started thinking medieval times, which would be prior to the date that I mentioned. But I think everybody understands where I was going with that. All right, anyway, shout out to Norway. Only problem is he wanted to do it

two weeks before my wedding. My fiance found out, was pissed and threw a fit. Plans were changed, but it's left a bad taste in her mouth. Oh, it's left a bad taste in their mouth. All right, we got it. This stuff doesn't matter to guys. I couldn't give, you know, but it does to the bride unless you want to piss both of them off.

Just wait. It's not hurting you at all. Cerruti is right. Just an aside before we get to suri's part about this i love the the bride is really upset about it i'm not talking about your bride in general here but just let's do a generalization of the people that are like posting posi vibes only posts and like hats just positive vibes it's like no no actually i just mean my fucking vibes um i don't care about your i'm gonna let i'm gonna let the world think i care about everybody's like hats, just positive vibes. It's like, no, no, no. Actually, I just mean my fucking vibes.

I don't care about your, I'm going to let, I'm going to let the world think I care about everybody's vibes, but really it's just about my vibes. So if you were a posi vibes only person, you would only want positive vibes for the people around you. But when they start to impact the full throttle, like 100 out of a hundred level of your vibes, and it gets knocked down to like an 85, then it isn't really about posi vibes only. It's only about your posi vibes. Yeah. I've actually never thought about that before, but you're 100% right. Anyone who has any positive vibes only memorabilia is probably incredibly selfish. They are the ones that doesn't want their day fucked up. That's wild to me. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like that time when

i blame millennials for a segment and that guy from awful announcing like didn't get the joke and it was one of the worst dms ever i was like hey dude i really don't think you got that and he was like um i listened to it a second time and you blame millennials for everything and i was like yeah i was like that's that's not really what i was doing. But, um, it was like a tongue in cheek thing. I think you were there. Weren't you producing that day? Probably. Yeah.

Yeah. Honestly, that, that age well, because now people blame millennials for everything. Like Gen Z people hate millennials, like the baby boomers hate millennials. So we're just kind of in this weird crosshair situation where nobody likes us anymore. So, uh, actually it's probably a good take by you now. I guess my thing with it was that it was just kind of like, I want all of us to do better. And then it's like a millennial will slit someone else's throat for a meme. It's like, wait, that doesn't seem to add up.

And again, it was a generalization in, in the guy who was clearly a millennial wrote the piece and he was very upset about it. So I was like, all right, whatever, man. Um, I was like, we'll just agree to disagree on this one. So that upset about it. So I was like, all right, whatever, man. I was like, we'll just agree to disagree on this one. So that was about it. But yeah, the Posse vibes thing is great because the more I thought about it when I saw this email from Kyle,

I was just like, yeah, oh, I love everybody. Wait, you were going to have this moment of happiness, but it was going to infringe upon my happiness level? Yeah, I don't want you actually to be happy. Can you delay your happy thing? Can your vibes be delayed for like a month? Is that cool? Awesome. All right. So yeah, so Rudy was right. So go ahead. I don't think it's that ridiculous. I mean, here's the thing, especially about guys at a wedding. The wedding's not about you. It just isn't. I accepted that going into my wedding. It was about

my parents. It was about Maddie. It was about her parents more than it was about me. I was just happy to be there. Had a good time. Tried not to mess anything up. And I was happy my parents. It was about Maddie. It was about her parents more than it was about me. I was just happy to be there, had a good time, tried not to mess anything up. And I was happy about it. But I didn't think about stuff like that. And Maddie, who is my wife, is the most low-key, chill person alive. And even she wouldn't have... If someone proposed the week leading up to our wedding that was coming to our wedding, I don't even think she would be cool with that, which tells you that it's just the wrong move. It just is. Period. Yeah. As you say that out loud, first of all. It just is. Period. Yeah. You know, as you say that out loud, first of all,

your wife is extremely cool. So I can't imagine it was that big of a deal anyway. And it wasn't like you were like, I have to let her be the star of the show, even though that's the right thing to do. You're right. Okay.

You're right. Be the star of the show. But it's not like she's seeking that out in ways that we could certainly, and I'm not even talking about anybody specifically, but you just know there are certain brides that it's going to be like, nah, this is like all about, like I had certain guys that weren't invited to some of them because she was just like, well, he may do this or that could

happen here or whatever. And then like some guys were like left out going, wait, what, what's going on? Um, I mean, if that happened, none of my friends would have been invited to my wedding. I mean, period. Like what we had, uh, we had a dude puking on two buses, two separate buses on the way home. We knew what the deal was going to be going in and it got weird. And if my wife put her foot down like that, none of my friends would have been invited in the first place. So that sucks if you have a wife like that or a significant other like that. But I also realized as you were explaining it, you're kind of like the groom of life. Like your day to day, you're not there. You never make it

about yourself. You are just happy that everybody else is doing their thing. And you just, it's almost like you could be a little bit more selfish because the way you said, like, I knew that day wasn't about me. I feel like you approach a lot of stuff that way. And it's probably why everybody likes you so much because you're just like, yeah, whatever. I'm here. What's going on? Yeah, no, I, I, I could be more selfish. That's a hundred percent true, but I don't think, uh, just my, my vibe. That's my positive vibe, dude. It's just me not caring about stuff. I don't, 100% true. But I don't think... That's my positive vibe, dude. It's just me not caring about stuff. I let stuff go. I don't really mind. If somebody really wants to have the attention be on them

for something, gladly take it. I don't really care about that. I find it weird when people do care about it. Okay, this one's heavy. And I know what I want to say. I'm not sure how we're going to go for it. It sucks. Sort of. or maybe it doesn't. Here we go. Don't use my name. 6'1 and a half.

Nice. 195. Huge fan of the pod. Been listening. SVP. Your life advice segments going all the way back to Texas Jake. Hey, can Texas Jake send a follow-up email? Because I feel like we never really did a full follow-through with him. Remember he was

trying to be, he wanted to work as like an athletic director. Texas Jake, hit us a follow up email. People really want to know what's going on. And then our guy says, I hope he's doing well. We all do. We really liked him. He was a nice guy. Yeah. He was really nice. So you like talked to him on the phone a few times, right?

We emailed back and forth for a bit. Yeah. That's Texas Jake. Yeah, he's not a phone call. He wasn't going to keep calling you all the time. But you know, he followed up and we were interested in his deal. But that was like three years ago. So I mean, he might even be the AD at some big school right now.

Who knows? Yeah, who knows? Probably not. Probably not a huge school, but maybe on his way. A directional school. All this time listening, I never considered writing until now.

Here's my situation. Mid-30s, married, young kids. I've worked in the financial world my whole career. Decided to make a career move a couple years ago after earning my potential plateaued. After my earning potential plateaued at my old firm, I took a pay cut from making just under $200K a year to a new role making $100K base with a chance for much more upside. A bonus potential of three to five times my base once my business unit is humming. All right. Flash forward two years and I'm still grinding on $100,000 base as the runway to get

the new operation going has been long. COVID, marketing conditions, you name it. It's been a longer grind than expected, but things are picking up and I'm hitting my targets this year. I should be feeling great, right? All right. So that was kind of cool because the way that previous paragraph ended, it felt a little bit like an infomercial, But I'm going to defer. I'm just always kind of deferring to trust here, right? And that it sounds like this guy's, despite some bumps in the road, feeling good about where it's going. So maybe he's going to make all that money. Great. But here's where it gets tricky. My wife is a real estate agent. She's been busier than ever in our upper, upper middle class suburb with folks fleeing the city and moving to the burbs the past 18 months. She's great at what she does. I've been proud of her as her career took off, not to mention after my cut in income,

she's been able to pick up the slack and keep us comfortable. She'd never made more money than I during our relationship until this past year. Now when we need it most, she comes through. I should be feeling great, right? I feel like this is not going to be feeling great soon. Here's the kicker. Throughout the stress of little kids and tight budgets, we typically would only have sex once or twice a month. I'm not great on these topics because I just don't understand the marriage thing. And when I'll hear my buddies talk about the sex life thing, I just, it kind of blows my mind. Um, even though I know it's exactly what it is. So I'm not, I know there's some limitations to my, I, I'm not great on this topic. Uh, the sex lives of married people, other than I have heard a lot about what happens once you get married. So anyway,

um, so we're talking, uh, once or twice a month. It is what it is. And I just dealt with it. Recently, we experienced an uptick, much like the leads on this new business twice a week, the last six weeks, way more than our average stats. I should be feeling great, right? This is like, I wonder if this guy says this with his buddies as he tells stories out loud. Now I'm starting to wonder if it's fake. All right. But anyway, after a long night out during some extremely drunken sex, she said something I can't get out of my head. My husband wouldn't like this. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. What? Yeah. She said my husband wouldn't like this. So our emailer continues. What the fuck? Is my wife cheating on me? Is the uptick in sex in exchange for some guilt she's carrying? Or is this all in my head? Some kind of inferiority complex as I financially defer to her while I build my new career? Was it just some poorly worded, drunken, dirty talk? How do I bring this up without blowing up our marriage and accusing her of cheating because of something she probably doesn't remember saying as my new career takes off uh will i realize this was nothing or will it always be in the back of my mind if i don't comfort her i hope this isn't too heavy for the sports pod uh he also said he doesn't want to ever get divorced because the kids all right um you know if we cover all angles on this, there are going to be some you like and some you don't, right? Let's start with the best version of it.

You already said you guys are out late. I mean, it could have just been something stupid that she said. I will admit, one time in college, let's just say another name was said out loud. By you or someone else. I don't know. I'm not like super comfortable because I don't want to end up going down that

road of like, you know, like man, that's six or fourth quarter. All right, here's what I was like in bed. So, you know what I mean?

I just, I don't know. I don't know that I ever really want to cross over to that. Maybe I will one day, but imagination you go yeah uh I think we know the answer yes well you know who cares yes she said another one of my buddy's names and so I was like you know and then I you know because I was also a college kid, you know, hothead all the time. And I would just be like, I just was like, what? And then, you know, went back to probably my apartment or something. And then, you know, the next day she was like, I was hammered.

And I was trying to remember how like we got home and we'd all gotten in a cab together. And she's like, that's why that happened. And it all checked out. And it didn't even make any sense that it would have been this other guy anyway. So that very well could have been what it was. Your wife was drunk and said something that didn't make any sense because she was drunk.

Now, combining that with the uptick in sex, I think you would hear from some people say, was there something that's happened recently where you guys are just kind of in that mode a little bit more? You know, there are ebbs and flows to this, so that could be part of it. But this is the part that you may not want to hear is I think there are other people that will tell you that a change in behavior sexually is the first sign that something is actually happening. And, um, that's not what you want to hear here. So I don't want to give you all of this advice and be like, all right, hire a private investigator because there's like a different way of doing it. You could just say, Hey, can I talk to you about something that

happened the other night? And if you know your wife well enough, you can read her. Um, if you've never had any suspicion of it ever before and you're wrong and you bring it up like you said that might go even worse than than any other part of it but it's really going to be up to you like how long are you going to let this beat you up in your head because at some point you're going to have to address it either with her again i'm not saying like you know all of a sudden you're like you know you should start doing get a babysitter maybe staking her out three or four nights a week because then you're you, you could end up being a complete psycho because your wife said something silly while she was drunk and you guys were together. So if it's bothering you this much, there's going to be a moment where you're finally going to have to address it or maybe just kind of goes away because there's never been any signs.

You know, there's never been anything. But there's a lot of things you have to notice. Like, does she turn her phone upside down? Does she have a phone lock now that she never had before um you know is she going out with the girls more often uh is she buying new clothes that you don't see her wearing um is there a guy named doug that's calling the house a lot you know the last one i'm kind of kidding so i'm not trying to like freak you out and plan all these things in your head because you don't know you don't know the answer but it'd be naive to be like now you're totally fine but it also is i don't know if it's likely or not because i don't

know you guys but it could very simply be something silly that was said um in the moment after a night of drinking which is you know not exactly an unusual thing to happen so uh good luck with all that i think the insecurity about the pay and her now making more than you is probably putting this as a bigger idea in your head that it could potentially be a thing so i wouldn't worry about that part of it but what i what i would worry about like if you know that your wife doesn't say things like that like hey my husband wouldn't like this um like you know wife. And if you know that that's a weird thing, even if she's drunk or not. Well, sober would be probably a bigger deal.

Yeah. That to me is that I don't want to be like a bummer here, but that to me is kind of like kind of weird. And like, just being honest, like the real estate thing, like, you know, that's an odd job kind of thing. So it's really hard to track that person down. Right.

Because they can say, I'm going on a showing. Right. And you'd be like, all right, you know, how do you know? Good call on the real estate thing. Yeah. So I don't want to alarm you, but I think it's worth checking into.

And if it's going to really bother you, I think it's worth confronting her about it and just having a grown up conversation because, you know, that's it's going to make it. If you're going to hold it against her and she actually isn't cheating on you,

then it's almost going to be it's not going to be worse, but it's going to it's going to be terrible for your relationship, too. So you kind of have to get to the bottom. Well, yeah, I mean, it's not going to be worse, but it's going to, it's going to be terrible for your relationship too. So you kind of have to get to the bottom of it. Well, yeah,

I mean, it probably made this guy feel worse. So, um, but yeah, there's no way to answer this. I mean, I can, it'd be completely irresponsible.

Like, no, dude, you're probably fine. Don't worry about it. Like you're good, but there's also a chance you're totally fine. And,

um, you know, maybe there's never any other moment in the next, however many months where you have any kind of like, there's nothing ever zero flags, and you're maybe even looking a little bit more here or there, then maybe you're fine, and you don't have to bring it up. But if you're starting to notice things, you know, there's two ways of going about it, you can start getting really weird and paying a lot of attention. But it's your life too. So,

you know, I don't know, it's kind of like how far can we go with the advice on this thing i don't want to start talking about like an invasion of privacy here so uh that one's that one's but you know like as we're talking this out sturdy he already knows the answers to a lot of the stuff that we're talking about because of her like we're talking about two people we don't know so at this point i'll probably just kind of stop it but yeah if we're talking six months from now and you've noticed a couple other things and you're driving yourself crazy, like you can't just live like that quietly in silence

and keep it all inside. You need to, for you, you need to figure out and get to the bottom of it, even if it's the answer you don't want to hear. Sounds good. We'll leave it at that. We'll leave it at that. I'm not going to, I think probably some people

would ask Saruti for more on the married side of thing, but I don't want to put my man stuff out on the street either so no i mean this the the sex thing is a little is it i don't want i don't want to freak this guy out freak everybody out but the sex thing is a little bit of a red flag too like that's that's odd that just doesn't i don't know like what every marriage is like and just because i'm married doesn't mean i'm an expert on every marriage which i think is what a lot of people think just like when they have you know people have kids or an expert on everyone's kid. But I that is a bit of a red flag if it's all

of a sudden this uptick because that would make me kind of feel weird too. I don't know. Just saying. All right. So Rudy, Rudy making making husbands out there feel better one podcast at a time. There you go. Thanks to Rudy and Kyle Crichton and I hope everybody enjoyed the interviews on this one as well.

Bill and I will be back on Sunday night as we will maybe have the finals decided as far as the matchups. I think they would be actually by then, depending on the schedule. I'm going to look at it. I'm a day-to-day. I wake up.

Who's playing? Okay, good. That's what I'm doing. That's how my day works out. Yeah, you're about to grind. You don't look ahead, dude. I don't. I really am one game at what I'm doing that's how my day works out you're about to grind you don't look ahead dude I don't I really am one game at a time unless there's two all right

we'll talk to you Sunday Thank you.