The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Zion’s Debut With Royce Young | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: January 23, 2020

Russillo is joined by ESPN’s Royce Young to discuss Zion Williamson’s first regular-season NBA game vs. the Spurs, his impressive run in the fourth quarter, restricted minutes, how Zion will affect Brandon Ingram, and more (9:14). Then Ryen continues on about hype, questions surrounding Zion’s body, and load management (32:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

today's episode of the ryan rossillo show on the podcast network is brought to you by state farm just like basketball the game of life is unpredictable talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Kind of like the Bulls winning against the T-Wolves. Maybe that is another. Maybe that's to be expected. I don't know. The T-Wolves thing is every time I check in on them, I'm like, hey, what's going on, T-Wolves?

What are you guys up to? You lost again. Okay, cool. And Towns went absolutely crazy. Wiggins had an unbelievable second half, and it doesn't seem to matter. And then Covington, apparently who everybody wants. Some of these trade rumors

early on, the best way to read the trade rumor isn't, man, I hope my team can get that guy. The best way to read it is, who would we possibly send that would get us that? Like, Bogdanovich at Sacramento, half of you fan bases are like, yeah, we'll just take him off your

hands. He's good. He's good. He's actually a good player. And just because his contract is up doesn't mean he should just be given away. So there you go. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today. Kyle, what is good, my man?

I'm just trying to be ready for Sundance, drinking lots of water. You're going to Sundance. When are you leaving? I'm going to Sundance. You gotance drinking lots of water you're going to Sundance when are you leaving? you got a script there or something you going to? I screw up the Sundance trip I think I'm on year 4 or 5 of screwing it up

I always say I'm going to go it's always a year out where I'm like oh that's this week I'm like okay next year I am going and then at least with ESPN I would always arguably be too busy. Although Hartford Salt Lake is possible, um, believe it or not. No, it is. It is. Don't laugh. That's a lot of people from Salt Lake are like, you know, if I'm at East coast base, I'm going to do it in Hartford

because why wouldn't you? And then when I moved out here, um, so last year would have been the first time I was on the West Coast for Sundance. I was like, oh, that's right now. But I'm going to Atlanta for a couple days. And that was kind of like a post-ESPN, just be in the mix, in the mix for a couple days and then get out of there. And then I went to Nashville for a couple days. So that was kind of cool. But this year it was absolutely locked in.

I'm definitely going to Sundance, definitely going to Sundance. And then I was up at the Ringer Studios on Tuesday, hanging out with Bill, hanging out with a few other guys, and they were like, okay, so what's the Sundance plan? I was like, oh, that's this week? I go, I keep thinking it's the week after Super Bowl.

I think it's like two weeks, isn't it? No, it starts up. They're hard to do forever. No, it starts up now, but by the time I get back from Miami and then watch the game and then have to do a pod, like it's over. Like nobody, it's not cool to but by the time I get back from Miami and then watch the game and then have to do a pod, it's over. It's not cool to be there anymore, I guess.

And so this is my one-year reminder that in 2021, look out Sundance Festival because I'm going. You're going to Miami for a week, dude? What do you mean? No, I'm not going to Miami for a week. God, no. Miami's – but again, this is always that kind of thing where it's like, oh, Miami's changed so much. Miami is definitely different from the first time. The first time I did a Super Bowl there 10 years ago.

So that was the Saints Colts one where Breeze won. That was one of the few trips where I was gone for nine days. And I was like, I'd still be good staying here. I'm having so much fun. And it was just fun. It was relaxing. It was good. You know, a couple nights out, a lot of, a lot of of mellow nights and we were doing the show from the beach every single day

and that was kind of like wow this is this is great it was also really funny too because we had a moment where there was this tv producer that was like hey do you guys mind doing some of these kind of skit type things at the start of that's when it was still the svp show so i was like yeah no problem like let's just do some skits and scott was like um what are we doing what are we doing and then the tv producer brought over like these cheerleaders and the cheerleaders were going to like shake pom-poms around us and we were going to like walk through them and high-five them and scott look i wasn't exactly saying this is sick let's definitely do this can i go first

but scott whatever my apprehension level is with some of this stuff, it's kind of like a little cheesy. His is like full-blown panic attack. Okay. And he would tell you this. So I'm not telling on anybody here. And it's kind of funny because he had the juice. He just goes, nope, not doing this.

No, this is a no, not. And then it's like all these hot cheerleaders are just standing there looking at us did you end up doing what no no like scott was like not doing this nope done and then it's just like me standing there and then the girls are looking at like what's what's wrong with these guys like just smile and walk through a you know a group of cheerleaders but i do think that like guy that gets his picture taken with middle of light girl or I should say cores like girl or, you know,

Belvedere hostess for the night. I think the guy that like gets that picture taken is like, I'm killing it. Like I've always, I don't know. How is that possible? How is that possible to feel? What do you mean to feel that way?

I don't know. Oh no dudes feel it like there's a few guys that i've worked with this a while ago but like would have an avatar of them with nice like like jaeger promo girls and i would just be like well you're not you know it isn't like cool you're in a picture with somebody who's attractive that probably never talked to you after the jaeger promo night totally yeah to be like that's what like oh you know i don't know like part of me maybe i should envy the guy that thinks he had an amazing night that goes just give it yeah yeah because i think there's a crew there's probably a crew right now listening to me like what's wrong with

getting a couple snapshots with the jaeger girls i I'd be like, nothing, nothing. I just remember when I used to work and then manage bar. Those promo nights, it was such a disaster. Like a total... Because whoever was going to work for Goldschlager in the mid-90s and start pushing Goldschlager

at dive bars in college towns, that person was really young. And if you weren't really young, damn, like I'm sorry. And then they'd show up with a few shirts and everybody would murder

each other for the shirts. And then the promo people always got drunker than anybody else did. So... Oh, they're having the best time. They're heroes. Yeah, that was kind of their thing.

Like I just go out all the time. You're like, how many times can you do an ice luge of Goldschlager in a week? Well, if you're in a college town, it's like giving out money. It's like you're the Monopoly man or something. Yeah, but I'd imagine whoever was...

Aftershock was another big one. Everybody was trying to figure out some weird, cold-served shot that could be the next thing. Aftershock. I'm Googling it right now. Yeah, Aftershock was like a dual threat. That was like the dual scent Axe body spray of liqueurs. Oh, liqueur. Oh, no.

Yeah. Red liqueur. Wait a minute. Do you see it right now? Yeah, I see red, hot, and cool cinnamon. Yeah, so for anybody that's talking about Fireball, this stuff's all cyclical. I mean, it just is. But those promos were always hilarious because

you never really kind of knew what you were going to get like sometimes people are a little bit more buttoned up like definitely with like the beer distributors and then um there would be maybe like a promo girl and then she would have girls that she hired and they may have been like completely off the grid they may not even gone to school with you. Like you didn't even know what, and then like one of those was always a complete disaster. And you were just like, you know, and then you're running the place. And despite, you know, being really young,

running one of these bars, like I never, when I worked, I was working and I would just be like, ah, this is, this is brutal. Anyway, there you go. So yeah, I'll send send out i should do that for instagram though this week in miami i should try to get my picture taken with like the cheesiest thing be like killing it down in miami dude oh please you'll have plenty opportunities too i will yeah it's good call good call kyle okay today's podcast is sponsored by adt commercial

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from New Orleans. But before we do that, well, actually, let's get to him first, and then I'm going to probably go off at the end. I don't know what kind of mood I'm going to be in on this one. So I have this week's open, but I'm closing with it. So there you go. ESPN NBA writer Royce Young.

Is there a senior in there, Royce? Because I know how I would hate to leave that out. There's a senior writer. You were appropriate in leaving that out. I'm not senior. Okay. What does that actually mean? I have no idea. Cause I know it's a big deal when you get to say you're a senior writer. Cause I've seen like young people get it and it's like, man, they already made that guy senior writer. So senior writer. Wow. Oh yeah. Right. Despite being friends with, I assume a lot of senior writers. I don't, I imagine it just more money

and it sounds cool, but I don't think I've ever asked anybody the question. Yeah. There we go. I think it's probably like getting, you know, when you're like not actually a doctor, but you get to say you've got your doctorate, so now you start calling yourself doctor or whatever. I assume it's the same thing. You just introduce yourself that way all the time. Actually, I think it's more real than the doctor thing. yourself that way all the time. Actually, I think it's more real than the doctor thing. I think when anybody has an honorary degree, like everybody is in on the same thing on the honorary degree,

just, Hey, it's cool. We like what you've done with your life. Here's an honorary degree. But then when you start hanging them up, not that hanging them up is wrong, but then actually saying like, Oh, I have a degree from Tufts. And they're like, well, you don't, they, they honor you one day. Cause you did some stuff. Okay. I'm sure this is what everybody wanted to hear. don't they honor you one day because you did some stuff okay i'm sure this is what everybody wanted to hear you were in the building let's keep going right in new orleans uh one of my favorite cities and i know you know pretty well kind of how this is all played out in the in the lead up to all this thing so what was it like being in the city and then being in the arena and seeing it for real getting zion started here yeah i mean it was uh it was an awesome experience, first of all, just the game itself,

you know, start there. And it was kind of, I don't know what the word is, Ryan, to use just for the first three quarters, the first 12 minutes of Zion's career. Choppy, awkward, reactionary, however you want to describe it. But for that three minutes that, you know, I've been to a lot of great regular season games, you know, having covered the NBA in Oklahoma city, you happen to see a lot of dramatic events happen. That's a top 10. I mean, that, that, that three minute flurry was just sensational. And like almost in the same way of like how everyone had to wait three months to seize the ion, having to wait those three quarters for him to finally arrive in the NBA, so to speak,

was kind of worth the wait. So, you know, being around the city, though, you know, we spent about 48 hours kind of going around, getting the feel, seeing what people were thinking. And I think that

kind of the vibe that I get, and I hope I'm not completely wrong on the impression I got from people in New Orleans, but there is kind of this, you know, come talk to me when he's done something vibe uh, vibe, you know, there's, there's a lot of hype and there's a lot of anticipation about what he might represent.

But I think that people around here also recognize they had a guy that was super hyped before. And while Zion does feel differently. And a lot of people say that he's connecting himself with the community in a way that Anthony Davis never really did or never really could, the way that Zion, his charm, his charisma, showing up on the sidelines of high school football games I think that's how a lot of people kind of feel, is that talk to me when he's doing something. Because last night's game wasn't even sold out. There was a lot of empty seats in the upper deck. So I think that that's kind of how people are looking at this. They could be fresh off a national title. That could be part of it. True. Very come over city here. Yeah. That, that also could be, you know, maybe an anti Anthony Davis thing, but before we get to kind of maybe more of that and then the exit and Gentry and everybody's explanation after the fact, because that became, you know, a big part of

last night's story, the lead up to it has been all over the place. Like I know that, I don't know, maybe over a month ago, I tweeted out, I don't know what to believe about Zion for this year anymore. Cause I'm hearing all sorts of things. I'm actually willing to believe anything. Like I know that, I don't know, maybe over a month ago, I tweeted out, I don't know what to believe about Zion for this year anymore because I'm hearing all sorts of things. I'm actually willing to believe anything. Like I had heard that in agents always want to do this. Agents are like, look, the less risk is you not playing. So why don't we do this redshirt year that we're seeing in the NBA a little bit more often and just sit it out and then and then we'll see what happens. You know, Griff, the gm said that was never the case and look he played so i guess i guess it wasn't and let's not forget zion where

we do a really bad job of this where we ignore what the actual person we're all debating about wants and when zion came back and played after he got hurt at duke and people were like don't play don't play again i think a lot of that's motivated by so many people in the media that hate the NCAA, but it was a Zion, like looking at us going, no, I want to play UNC again, like win an ACC title, maybe win a national championship. Like I actually like doing this stuff. So while I'm here, I might as well come back and play. And people are like, I can't believe he would do this. So it's clear that he is motivated to want to come back and play but the thing that i think is most and i don't want to say concerning because look he took his shirt off he got out there and i'll admit

too i'm like oh my god he looks terrible um this build-up of how much he's been working out and the body fat percentage numbers like all the stuff that i'm gonna talk about a little bit later it feels like honestly a lot of that was just bullshit because and I don't expect him to be in NBA basketball game shape. Van Gunney made a great point. It is that point. I don't care how great your cardio is. I don't care what you've been doing working out. Until you run around with nine other NBA guys for 40 minutes, 35 minutes,

there's nothing to simulate that because your body's moving in all these unpredictable ways and the intensity of the whole thing. And at the beginning, I'm like, well, so much for all this workout stuff and all these updates, because it doesn't look like any of that has impacted him whatsoever. Yeah. It, it honestly, like that first four minute burst,

right. And I felt like in the first two minutes, he looked gassed. Like it just, it looked like he was a little bit tired. And, and, and I think that it's,

it's just natural that when your adrenaline, adrenaline gets pumping the way that I'm sure his was your heart rates up, you kind of just can't control that. And you just, you cannot simulate what it's like to not only be in an NBA game, but to be in a game, this hyped, this anticipated the crowd revved up the way it was. You just can't simulate that. You can't be prepared for that. It doesn't matter how many wind sprints you run in an empty gym. It's just not possible. I do think, though, that when it came to him settling into the game,

he obviously took a different approach. He was a little bit passive. The Spurs, Greg Popovich, the unintentional troll that he is was doubling him on every catch, forcing Zion to kick the ball out. And, you know, I think Zion, to his credit, kind of said,

you know, I'm not going to overly force this. I kind of wondered if his first play would be just him bulldozing his way to the basket and getting an offensive foul. But he kind of just tried to pick his spots. But I will say this, Ryan, you know, we're all freaking out about the four threes and how awesome a moment that was. And while, while yes while he was out he probably worked on his shot uh to an incredible degree but if we're all getting revved

up about zion and saying see i told you so based on the fact that he had four threes i think we need to pump the brakes a little bit because that's not going to be what makes him a great great player at least in the early going he he's got a lot more to offer in other areas. And the shooting is just like the icing on the cake. Like the shooting, if he can get the shooting going, now we're talking about an elite player in the NBA. So while he made those four threes, I don't think that you can be, you know, I don't think anybody should be completely blowing the roof off saying,

I told you so about Zion just because he made four threes. Because whether or not the ball goes in the basket, I think is unimportant here. I think there's other areas of the game where Zion's going to be an elite player. Yeah, that's not who he is as a shooter. That's not the way the shot looks. I mean, it's still flat as hell.

And, you know, give it to San Antonio, which will always be forgotten they actually won this game. His numbers from three at Duke were better than you'd think they were you know the funny thing is it's like the other perimeter guy shot it worse than he did like rj fell apart and i don't think reddish's numbers were very good from three but um he was you just want people to think you might take one right and that what it's mostly about is just that you could take one and could make one and as long as you've got that thought in a defense's head, then I think you're where you need to be. Yeah, that's really all it is.

I mean, that's the part about Giannis that I like in that it's something you at least have to think about. And in this league now, you really, you know, the more guys that you have to think about and spacing all this stuff out, especially as a center, which is, you know, I'll never forget. And this happens, man. I mean, you don't play and you're sitting on a, on a desk with a bunch of guys that played and you say something and then it's immediately dismissed because you're the guy that never played. And I know what's happened to me a bunch. And, you know, there are times where you just, you get really frustrated. Mike Schmitz, who does our draft stuff and he went on get up and said look he's a center right now and the ex-players laughed him off the set and he's playing center last night when they had that run yeah and so if he's a

stretch five and i don't want to hear about favors and haze and all those like none of that stuff matters okay it doesn't mean anything. If those guys are not there to be in his way, that team is for Gentry to figure out the best way to use Zion. And I think it's right now, at least at center. And if he's a guy that at least makes you think that you have to keep him honest there on that shot, um, then that's a huge plus. And I don't, I don't even know if he's going to be that guy. Cause I don't like necessarily the way it looks, but you know, the special ones figure it out. So we'll see. Yeah. And I don't even know if he's going to be that guy because I don't like necessarily the way it looks, but the special ones figure it out.

So we'll see. Yeah, and a good example again is Milwaukee and Giannis. And him playing alongside Brooke Lopez changes every single dynamic of the way that the Bucs play and the way Giannis can play is that when you have a big stretched out to 28, 32 feet or whatever, that makes a big difference in how you can use this guy that is so dominant 15 feet and under. So, you know, I think that the Pelicans, if you just look at their personnel, they don't have anything that could resemble Brooke Lopez, obviously. They've got guys that score the ball five feet and down. So I think that, to your point, Ryan, it's exactly that,

is that the Pelicans are going to kind of have to reshuffle and figure out what the pairing in the frontcourt along Zion needs to look like. And while I think having the hyper-athletic guys like Jackson Hayes gives you an interesting angle when it comes to defensive matchups and switchability and some of those things, if Zion's not going to be a consistent three point shooter, which I don't think you can rely on that being the case. If he's just a capable one,

that's, that's more than you could ask for. But if he's not going to be a guy that's truly a threat, you're going to need somebody, I think at the five that can space. Otherwise, like you said, he's,

you're going to have to basically play him as a five and look whether or not he's six foot five, six foot six, however, whatever height you really think he is, like the dude is built like something just out of a comic book. So he can play center for all I care because he may not be so tall, but he's as wide as a player that you can see. And he can carve out plenty of space and he can jump over basically any seven footer.

So I think he's more than capable. And plus, he's just a matchup nightmare. If you put a big slow center on him, that's a huge problem. And if the Spurs would have played Zion straight up one-on-one, I mean, who do they have that could guard the guy? I mean, is Yaka Pirtle going to be slowing down Zion's first step? That was the matchup. At one point, it was Yaka Pirtle, and you were like, okay, well, let's go.

Yeah, that's why Yaka Pirtle sacked off like 25 feet from him. He was like, I know that I can't stick with this guy. No, and the big thing about Zion, too, and scouts will say this, and you know this, Royce, is that I remember the first time somebody goes, look at somebody's second jump. The guys that really separate themselves from everybody's certain level of athlete. There's a slower athlete. Paul Pierce was, oh, he's not as athletic as Vince Carter. But no, Pierce was like a certain level of athlete right there's a slower athlete like paul pierce was oh he's not as athletic as vince carter but like no pierce was like a different

kind of athlete you know um steph curry isn't russell westbrook but steph has body control and muscle memory in a way that that's just as athletic as anybody else but it's not flashy you know it's not zach levine um where zion has this thing where second jump, like he had a miss on the left side of the rim when you're right to left on your TV during that third quarter stretch, and he missed it. But he is a great second jumper. You always have the advantage of the guy with the ball in your hand. You know you missed it before anybody else does.

And he just jumped through everybody, caught it on the other side and put it back up. And you just go, yeah, that was an awesome play. Like, what was that? And that's one of those, you know, look for guys that are either oh yeah he's he can he's big he can move around pretty well but what's the second jump look like and zion is absolutely the poster boy for that um he gets yanked and i know i was upset and you could say it's selfish but this is really something bigger than i'm going to get to here on this podcast. And just that, yeah, we wanted to see him back out there. Yes, I understand all of the concerns leading up to it.

I'm amazed at how in a very short amount of time, I would say in just a few years, it feels like most of the media is like, no, no, it's cool. Like this fun thing that everybody's enjoying, stop it immediately for the sake of minutes restrictions and projecting what could or couldn't happen. Gentry said it was the medical people. They tried to sub him out like three times, and he kept making all those shots. How did you see that playing out and then the explanation afterwards? Yeah, I mean, look, it was uncomfortable. And I thought that Gentry, he did his best. And I mean, you know Alvin Gentry, right?

And you can do all you want to try to keep him to stick the script. And at a certain point, he's going to go off of it. And he, in the post game, he tried to stick with it. He expressed that he was disappointed, which I think he needed to do because look, Sion was very disappointed in being around him in the locker room. I kind of hung around the locker room as he was getting ready to go for his post game press conference. And there was people kind of coming up and almost, I don't want to say consoling him, but kind of telling him it's okay.

Because I think that he was frustrated with the way that he had it rolling. Everybody was fired up. It was a dream come true. His NBA debut couldn't be going better for him. He flipped the tide of the game. I mean, not only did he make four threes in a row, but the fourth one gave him the lead. I mean, they had come back from a double-digit deficit.

And then he sits down. And so I think he was pretty frustrated by that. And everybody kind of had to console him. So I think Gentry recognized that, and he was trying to kind of play both sides of it. But when he went so far to say, I don't think Sean Payton would have sat down through Breeze, it was like, okay, now we're making weird comparisons. That doesn't make any sense. But I will say that in some ways, Ryan,

I almost feel like it could be better just as like from a narrative perspective, from an entertainment perspective, that Zion did go sit down. Because now, like, what was going to happen next? He was going to heat check at some point, right? And he was maybe going to miss the next two out of his three shots. I don't know. Maybe it would have been spectacularly.

He just would have kept making them. But more than likely, he would have missed a couple shots down the stretch. And the hot hand would have disappeared. The momentum would have kind of been popped. And it wouldn't have been the same thing. But now it's like the cliffhanger episode. It's like the thing of he left the building scorching hot. And it's like, now what? Now what's going to happen with science? Now that next four-minute burst that he has Friday against the Nuggets, it's like, wow, can he pick up right where he left off? So I do think from like, if we're looking long view entertainment, this could be kind of a good thing'm not even saying like i agree with you it's

just you're right like there's this thing where he hits those shots and then it's like okay that's it like we're just only going to give you a taste you can't play another song and uh and that's it do you have any other good anecdotes from just being around it uh you know stories something you're going to remember something you're going to tell other people when they're like hey you were there that night um one one little thing that happened last night that i thought was just look zion williamson is as charming and likable and i've only been around him just a little bit but holy cow like if you if you don't want to just like hug that guy everywhere you see him i mean he is so likable and and and really you can the authenticity just like just

jumps off of him and just the way that he kind of embraces his own immaturity, I think is really, really charming. But one of the things, Ryan, is that post-game, they kind of have a podium set up because it's such a big deal. And it just so happened, Zion's never really done a true NBA post-game press conference. And so he's coming down the hall, and it just so happens that he ends up going at the same time. Drew holiday does the Pelicans were planning to bring four players to the podium. And when the door opens,

Drew kind of like looks over at Zion and kind of like that scolding veteran way. He says like, they don't care about what I have to say, man. Like why are we here together? And Zion clearly like misjudging the timing of showing up at the same time as Drew Holiday. He's thinking, I'm just going with my teammate. He's like, my fault, my fault. And so like, you could tell Zion felt really weird about it. And there was a couple of times where Drew Holiday would either get asked a question or answer a question. And Zion was like shaking his head with a big grin on his face. Like, okay, good. I didn't

completely mess this up. At least Drew's getting his time, too. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, honestly, he's probably just doing it, but if you're Drew and you've been around as long as you've been in a league, I don't feel like sitting up here watching your press conference. They're not in this room for me. I get that.

What was the dumbest question anybody asked Zion? Dumbest question. I mean, it actually ended up being a good answer, I think, from Zion, but I did kind of find it weird. It's like, was your NBA debut everything you dreamed it would be? And it's like, it was kind of a cringey question to me because it's like, well, they lost. You're basically

saying, did you always dream about losing in your NBA debut? But Zion, as he tends to answer it, is a pretty classy and smart way. And he, he acknowledged like other than the losing, it went, went about as I could have hoped it was the energy was awesome, but I did cringe a little bit when that question came out. What do you think is going to happen with how Brandon Ingram adapts to this? Because he has been incredible for them. He's been a big moment guy too. Like it's not, you know, I've, I've started

to feel, and this is actually something Simmons and I talk about all the time. I go, I think we're in this, this era right now of the NBA, of some of the emptiest big stat games that I've ever seen. And I'm, I'm trying not to be in the moment with it, but like, I'll look at some of the numbers of these players that we all think are really good. And I'm like, again, they keep losing all the time. And I'm not telling you the Pelicans are good, but when I watch Ingram's games that are kind of big games, I'm like, this guy has more impact than just the raw scoring numbers, and he's a borderline all-star.

But now you go, okay, how do you make this work? Like having better players, you know, this is better for Ingram than having worse players around him putting up big numbers, but I do think it's something to think about because so much of the offense ran through him. Yeah, I think it's a great point, Ryan. And then just also, this is something any team with young, talented guys are going to have to battle against.

It's just kind of the tug-of-war that goes on when it comes to the spotlight, too. And let's not forget, Brandon Ingram was the number two pick himself. He went to Duke, too. And he was let's not forget Brandon Ingram was number two pick itself. He went to Duke too. And he was kind of a big deal coming into the NBA. And now he's playing at an all-star level. And I, I couldn't help, but find it a little bit uncomfortable when Brandon Ingram's at the free

throw line with two big free throws, four 30 left in the game or whatever. And the crowd's chanting, we want Zion as, as their possible all-stars standing there with two big free throws. What is Ingram doing? He missed his free throw.

So I can't help but want to pay attention to that a little bit. And look, I think from the Zion perspective, again, he is so likable and I think that he is so accommodating to his teammates that there's not going to be any friction caused in that regard. But at a certain point, everybody wants everything. I mean, you know these players, right? They want it all. Every single one of them wants it all.

They want the shoot deals. They want the commercials. They want to be the all-stars. They want everything, and they should because that's their expectations for their own careers. But I do wonder how that could go as kind of you need two stars. You need three stars stars but you also need them to be able to be cohesive and together and and that's going to be on on the pelicans front

office and the kind of the culture that they're developing which i think they're doing a really great job of by the way but i do think that they've got to kind of massage this situation and make sure that everybody's on the same page and as everybody's developing and growing that there's there's no tension that kind of builds up on the inside. Great stuff. You can follow him at Royce Young, ESPN NBA writer. Thanks for the time. Enjoy the rest of your time in New Orleans.

Will do, Ryan. Thanks, man. Before I get to this week's Open, which is the close, the matchup is set, and both teams are ready, preparing for the biggest game of the year. Time is almost up on the football season, but you still have time to feed your fantasy fix with DraftKings, the leader in one-day fantasy football. Plus, for a limited time,

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ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan Show. That's R-Y-E-N Show. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan Show. R-Y-E-N Show. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan show. R-Y-E-N show. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ryan show. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. This week's open is this week's close, and it's about Zion Williamson. I, like many of you, plan my day around Zion's debut, and it's something we've all been waiting for for a really long time. Simmons and I talked about ratings decline. I think there's a million different reasons. Also, shout out to some of you that chimed in saying, Hey, some of the ways you can share

NBA video now on, on these streams, these illegal streams like that has to play into it. Um, I don't know. I don't know if that's the answer, but shout out for another reason why, because I think we're about 10 to 15 deep on potential reasons. And one of those reasons was Zion Williamson. And despite the debut anticipation, which may have only been surpassed by LeBron's first game and I remember what that was all about and watching the game and be like man he's going to be awesome the shot looks a little loose order the jersey immediately like I was all in on the LeBron thing just because not that that was rare but it was because it was fun it was going to be different it was going to be exciting and he was going to develop into this guy that's arguably one of the greatest players ever and whenever

anybody actually exceeds the hype leading up to it it it is so rare. Tiger did it. LeBron did it. You know, A-Rod probably did it. And I don't know if Zion's going to do any of those things because he's in a different category because we're starting with concerns, not about his game, but about his health, his body, and all of these things. Whenever I do a draft report, the first thing I do when I write them all out, I write them out for myself, is I look at somebody's body. And too often, I'm probably like long, athletic. And just because guys are skinny and 6'7", sometimes we'll all be like, hey, he's athletic. And then it's not always the case. But with LeBron, it was his body is perfect. With Zion, I went, okay, I went from liking him with questions to loving him with still the same

questions. I would write on my notes, bad ass, not meaning he's tough, meaning his ass looks huge. And that's just the reality that you're dealing with when you're talking about players and what their body is going to look at, especially young guys early on. Like I remember Drew Gooden out of Kansas. I thought he was going to be a completely different player, but he got thick in the hips. He had a really nice career, rebounded, scored, but was a different guy than he was at Kansas. And it was because of how his body changed. And some guys that are big get smaller.

Duncan prolonged his career by being a big, thick guy that actually got skinnier and it helped him stay healthy. I mean, when you really think about Duncan's career, there was a time where you go, you know, 10 years ago, we were worried if this guy was going to be done because of his legs and his feet, and now he's out here winning championships again. So when you look at Zion, that's the first thing. And then when you factor in all the rumors that he wasn't even going to play this year

because his agents didn't want him to play, and that David Griffin pushed back on all that, that's not happening. Then ultimately Zion being like, hey, I actually want to get out there and play. So it was great when news came out after a report that he had to learn how to run again, which never sounds good. Like, hey, what are you up to? Oh, I'm 19, I'm 20, but I'm learning how to walk in a different way. I'm learning how to run in a different way. That actually seems impossible to me, unless you're like a straight line sprinter tweaking every little form or piece of form that you have. So with Zion, it was, what's this going to look like? So he gets out there and he starts,

and I got to be honest with you, and I think a lot of people would agree, the first thing I thought of was he looks terrible. He looks fat. He looks like his legs actually are hurting. And the adrenaline part that Royce Young talked about earlier is absolutely true. Like, think about the anticipation of being a kid

and then making your NBA debut, especially with this delay, and just to be hyperventilating on the inside. So it was not surprising to see him gassed immediately, but I didn't know if he was gassed from just the excitement or that he isn't in shape. I don't know what these stories were about him working out. And Van Gundy was funny on the broadcast where it was like, wait a minute, he gained nine pounds of muscle in one week. That's not real. Now, I think most people that work out, and I'm not even putting myself in this group because I'm not educated enough on it, but like real trainers will tell you that if you're big and you're strong and you're this untapped potential, you know, this rough piece of clay, and you start working out the right way with somebody who knows what they're doing, you can put on a good amount of muscle in

a very short amount of time if you've never, ever done it before, nine pounds in a week seems a little aggressive. 8% body fat seems absurdly inaccurate. And so then it became, is this guy fat openly on the broadcast, which then of course turned into body shaming. And if you can just put down your copy of this month's Atlantic and join us in the real fucking world and how we talk about athletes and talk about sports. As I said at the top, we talk about your body. We talk about who's in shape, who's out of shape. We talk and speculate. Is this guy hurt?

Is this guy right? That is the gig. That's what all the money is for. We talk about you in a way that we wouldn't normally do it at HR. You wouldn't show up to Fidelity today and say, hey, so-and-so is probably the fattest guy in the office. You want to know why? Because we don't care about your body type when you're putting together an IRA, but we do care about your body type when you're a pro athlete. And heaven forbid, the guy that gets canceled for ever suggesting any female athlete

is out of shape because you'd be toast. You'd be telling people, hey, I'm into real estate now because I said something about a woman looking out of shape that was a pro athlete. But for the rest of us in the real world that talk about, let's just say, men, that's part of it. That is part of it. So let's not turn this into a fat shaming thing just because guys were questioning what he looked like. But it did get ugly at the beginning. And then Mark Jackson dropped the I always like John Morant better line, which was incredible. I mean, a minute's record for Mark Jackson to already be saying, well, John Morant was always my guy. John Morant better line, which was incredible. I mean, a minute's record for

Mark Jackson to already be saying, well, John Morant was always my guy. John Morant is terrific. I love John Morant. You guys know I love John Morant. But what this job is, the GM job for an NBA team is the toughest GM job in all of sports. And I've said this all the time. If you don't have one of those guys, you really don't have a chance. And the reason why teams will miss on draft picks can be because they're stupid. It can be because they don't put in the work. It can be because a college coach tricks them into taking their guy and it's built on some relationship. There are a bunch of different reasons why somebody can miss on a pick. But another reason teams miss on picks is because they have to swing for the fences to hope to get one of those guys. So as much as you

may have thought John Morant was the next greatest thing, and he might be that, to think of what Zion could be is the reason why you still take Zion number one, despite all these concerns about his body and all these different things. So he comes out after three minutes. The back and forth isn't great. He looks apprehensive. We know he's a good passer, so that's part of it. But it just looked like a guy that was like, all right, I'm just kind of trying to get my feet wet and fit in here and see how this goes. And I'm already pre-bummed out like a 40-year-old on a Thursday, getting ready to go to Vegas for the weekend, thinking about that Sunday

where I'm going tomorrow morning after this Zion game is going to be all about whether or not this guy is a real deal. And I love him. I think he's going to be great. I think he's going to be special. I think he's going to destroy people. I don't want to hear that he's going to be doing this against men now because they're not strong enough to deal with him. Okay? They aren't. He's already stronger than most of these guys. But it was going to turn into a contest, as it does in my business, of who can be the

most specific and dumping on somebody the quickest or anointing somebody the greatest the quickest, right? And I was just thinking about it going, okay, none of this really matters. You know the people that would say that stuff is the kind of people you don't really respect in the business anyway. So who really cares? Why are you going to get upset about these things? And then boom, 17 points in three minutes and eight seconds. He hits four threes.

I cannot believe he hit that four three. Because when you hesitate and you think as a shooter and you go, oh, all right, wait a minute. Let me rethink this. Ah, hell, I'll just shoot it. That never goes in. And for Zion, it went on in his fourth shot. He's not going to hit threes like that. But all of a sudden, the entire game changed where it's New Orleans is down.

And by the way, that's a game they kind of wanted, right? They're trying to make the playoffs. After not making the playoffs for a long time, we can talk about the value of a draft pick versus the value of getting your brains beat in in the first round of the playoffs, which probably was going to happen to whoever is the eighth seed in the West. But there are franchises that go, we haven't done this in a long time. And look, the Pelicans actually were. It's not like they have this massive, massive drought here.

Davis was in the playoffs prior to last year's disaster. But this is a franchise that probably wants some short-term wins here with everything that's gone on. So he scores 17 points in 3-0-8. They take him out. They looked like they were trying to take him out a few different times, and they were. And I'm at home, and I'm outraged. And I'm not even so mad that they pulled Zion, even though that's the origin of it all. I was probably more mad, as you guys know me well enough, I was more mad that other people were so accepting of it. And this has happened in a very short amount of time

it kind of falls into the category of all the people that hate the NCAA so much that they're just mad that Travis Etienne even want to go back when it's like hey by the way don't you guys always want the player to be able to do what he wants to do and if Travis Etienne wants to go back to Clemson because I don't know he just fucking likes it there isn't that okay for him to do and that's exactly what he's doing so So get out of his way. Isn't it okay if Zion wants to come back and play at Duke last year? Because, I don't know, he just wants to play at Duke, right?

Like, hey, I could sit out or I could come back and play for a championship. Hell, if Kyrie can come back, everybody can come back, right? So in this quest to support every player but then disagree with them, they do something you don't like them doing. It's also this massive protection of the player and that anytime someone is

rested, it is only the right decision. And that's where I push back on this. I am not a climate change doubter here. Okay. Spare me your okay boomer reactions, but there are simply too many people that think every time somebody is pulled from something, it's always the right thing to do. And I don't think last night it was the right thing to do. I don't know that the Pelicans would have won. I don't know that Zion, like maybe he would have

gotten tired, but here's what you don't know. Him coming out of that game off a positive isn't going to change the path of his career versus him missing a couple more shots. Him being gassed at the end doesn't mean that all of a sudden he's going to blow out an ACL. Like you just, you don't know that. And yes, I'm sure the science and I've gone through it and be like, all right, more exhaustion leads to this and all these different things. But I've also seen people argue, and it happened when Durant went down with the Warriors, not

in the playoffs, but before that against the Wizards, where it was about a minute into the game and somebody fell into his leg, pushed his leg back. He thought he was out for the year. He was able to come back. But in the moment, one guy who I like was like, yeah, you know what though? He goes, the way the schedule worked out, he looked a little late in his reaction. You're like, are you kidding me? Somebody fell on his leg. And that's what I find myself pushing back on. It's not that Zion left the game. It's that everybody thinks it's the right call. And I'm not, I shouldn't say everybody, but large portions of the basketball media think it's always the right call. When my point would be whatever information you've read, you think you're right, but you're guessing. And so are the same

people that put a minutes restriction on it. It can be fancier technology. It can be wearable devices. It can be all sorts of monitoring. It can be all these guys thinking it out and going, this is the plan. This is the plan. And you know what it is? It's a really smart guess. It can be all these guys thinking it out and going, this is the plan. This is the plan. You know what it is? It's a really smart guess. It's a smarter sounding guess than just, Hey, let's wing it. And that's the problem with some of the stuff that we have in sports. And this isn't a generational thing. Let's take a look at no hitters because it's become this thing where it's like, Oh, you left the guy out there with 90 pitches. That was stupid. Okay. Now, granted we have more no hitter opportunities because the game of baseball has changed around so much that like, look, I had called this years ago where I go, I just don't think Jake Arrieta is, I just don't think he's Bob Gibson, and I don't think he's Sandy Koufax. I think there's some things happening with the approach of hitters that is changing some of these numbers where we have these bursts of years from pitchers who are pretty good, but then they're being put in these all-time categories because of their stats. But one thing that has happened is that there was more of an opportunity

for no-hitters, but no-hitters are apparently stupid now. From 1995, going over the next 16 seasons, you had eight seasons where only one pitcher was pulled from a no-hitter. So an entire full season of baseball, eight of those 16 seasons from 1995 on, you had a full year where only one guy got pulled during a no-hitter. Now it happens all the time. From 2014 to now, it's about 30 different times a pitcher has been pulled from a no-hitter. Does that mean everybody's smarter or does it just mean it's less fun? And now some of the times guys are getting pulled, some of the pitchers, it was really

crazy going through it, like major league debut, first time up. Okay, never thrown over 60 pitches. He's at 80. Some of the pitchers, it was really crazy going through it, like major league debut, first time up. Okay. Never thrown over 60 pitches. He's at 80. Some of them are understandable, but there's this acceptance of it now that just is, is mind boggling to me. Steven Strasburg, we can go over that. Remember in 2012, they wanted to keep into like 160 innings. And I remember going through every one of his game logs saying, if you really wanted to do this and make him available for the playoffs, there's a way you could have staggered this out more, and they didn't. They shut him down in the playoffs.

They didn't win. And why did they do it? So that Strasburg wouldn't get hurt again. And then guess what happened? Even though he did a pretty good job in jumping up the innings the previous, or excuse me, the following two years, he had a bunch of seasons where he never cracked 150 innings. And I'm sure one of you is going to say, who cares, dude?

They just won the World Series. Yes, seven years later. Klay Thompson having 60 points after 29 minutes and three quarters. I don't care if you're killing the Pacers. Go for 90. Let's see if somebody can surpass Kobe's 81. I know I'm not the biggest Harden fan, but when Harden has a matchup and Russ is out, I want to see him take 50 shots. I want to see how many points he can get because that stuff is still fun. And watchingion go off last night was fun and i wanted to keep watching it i don't think it makes me selfish i don't think it makes it sound like

i'm putting his health in jeopardy but what i'm telling you is that i don't think it would have been the end of the world and that's a guess but if you're telling me it was you're guessing too all right that'll do it for uh me i'll be with long on uh chris long and i're emptying out the trunk on monday He doesn't want to do any football, so I'm putting together all sorts of stuff. I need to do an email for the show. I really do. Maybe I'll just do a show

email for Gmail. I really should get that going so we can have people write in. I can handle that for you. It's simple. Alright, can you just do the Ryan Rosillo show at Gmail? Sure thing, just do the Ryan Rosillo show at Gmail? Sure thing, man. Or the Rosillo show at Gmail, or you can do Rosillo ringer at Gmail.

Just whatever it is, and then I'll tweet out the thing and be like, hit us up with mailbag questions for Chris and I on Monday, and then a couple different things planned in Miami. So that'll do it. Please subscribe. Rate and review. Can't thank you guys enough and uh enjoy the weekend right you Thank you.