The Scathing Atheist - 553: Yes We CAN Edition

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

In this week’s episode, Kim Davis does some court appointed reaping, Aaron Rodgers does something dumber than listening to Miami Dolphins fucking each other, and we’ll meet some people trying to make our community a safer place. --- Find out how to support the Creator Accountability Network here: https://creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org/ --- Come see us in Vegas: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/god-awful-movies-live-in-las-vegas-tickets-693624438367 To make a per episode donation at Patreon.com, click here: http://www.patreon.com/ScathingAtheist To buy our book, click here: https://www.amazon.com/Outbreak-Crisis-Religion-Ruined-Pandemic/dp/B08L2HSVS8/ If you see a news story you think we might be interested in, you can send it here: [e-mail] To check out our sister show, The Skepticrat, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/the-skepticrat To check out our sister show’s hot friend, God Awful Movies, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/god-awful-movies To check out our half-sister show, Citation Needed, click here: http://citationpod.com/ To check out our sister show’s sister show, D and D minus, click here: https://danddminus.libsyn.com/ To hear more from our intrepid audio engineer Morgan Clarke, click here: https://www.morganclarkemusic.com/ --- Guest Links: Pick up a copy of Elfis here: https://olympiapublishers.com/book/elfis --- Headlines: Gay couple wins 100,000 dollars from Kim Davis: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jury-awards-100000-kentucky-couple-denied-marriage-license-103170258 Pastor explains that Christian slavery gave us delicious soul food and fun music: https://www.bryancountynews.com/opinion/what-those-who-were-slaves-taught-us/ Idaho Library votes to close on Sundays despite threats of litigation: https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/idaho-library-board-chair-demands Aaron Rodgers literally touts the healing powers of "dolphin mating sounds": https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/09/16/aaron-rodgers-healing-powers-dolphins-mating-sounds-fans-jokes --- This Week in Misogyny: Inspiration for Sound of Freedom accused of sexual misconduct by at least seven women: https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkaqvn/tim-ballards-departure-from-operation-underground-railroad-followed-sexual-misconduct-investigation Mormon church disassociates with Tim Ballard: https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/even-the-mormon-church-wants-nothing

Warning, sailors wished they could cuss like this podcast. This week's episode of The Scathing Atheist is brought to you by HelloFresh, Stamps.com, and by the new discreet lip lube for inappropriate public mouth stuff, Boebert's Bees. Boebert's Bees, because we had to work hard not to make this episode a 60-minute Lauren Boebert joke. And now, The Scathing Atheist. Hi, I'm Elphys, a North Pole elf who dreams of being more than a toy maker. I want to be a rock star. But, as someone that has been alive for thousands of years,

I can in fact assure all of you mortals that you did in fact evolve from filthy monkey men. From Filthy Monkey Men. It's Thursday. It's September 21st. And it's National Escapology Day. That's right. And Eli Bosnick is going to be performing the entire podcast in a straight jacket. It's the only way I can keep him from bumping into his microphone. I'm no illusions.

I'm Eli Bosnick. I'm Heath Enright. And from DJ Super Spy James O'Keefe's New Jersey, Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Waycross, Georgia, this is The Scathing Atheist. On this week's episode, Kim Davis does some court-appointed reaping. Aaron Rodgers does something dumber than listening to Miami Dolphins fucking each other.

And we'll meet some people trying to make our community a safer place. But first, the diatribe. It's a strange situation we find ourselves in, with our detractors simultaneously faulting us for having no moral guide rails and too many moral guide rails. Right? Because on the one hand, they say that without God, secular societies have no non-governmental way of enforcing ethical standards. But on the other hand,

we're so damn good at enforcing ethical standards non-governmentally that they have to make those accusations in between complaints about cancel culture. Now, I want to be clear up front, cancel culture isn't a fucking thing, right? It's a scare term for accountability dreamed up by people who aren't used to being held accountable. That's obviously not to say that canceling isn't a fucking thing, right? It's a scare term for accountability dreamed up by people who aren't used to being held accountable. That's obviously not to say that canceling isn't a thing. It's just that that's always been a part of every culture that's ever existed from the beginning of human history. Well, hell, before human history, right?

Because monkeys, wolves, and birds enforce ethical standards and punish offenders through isolation and ostracization. And if you grew up when I did, you could probably name a few TV shows you loved that got literally canceled by some Christian group at some fucking point along the way. And of course, the biggest cancellation in the history of fiction came at the hands of their god in a 40-day reign. But somehow, the stuffy white assholes in charge of shit, or SWACOs, never took issue with cancel culture when religion was in charge of it. Because religious guardrails can be safely ignored by the self-appointed elite.

You know, people smart enough to know that religious rules are based on bullshit. People rich enough to buy an indulgence or two. People important enough to twist the arm of God's appointed representative. People who are God's appointed representative because swacos want ethical guardrails the same way they want speed limits for other people and not them now i you know i grew up in the 80s and 90s i'm a late edition gen x our whole thing kind of was not caring what other people think about us right that was but it was hypocritical. The hypocrisy at the heart of our generation was that we were all competing to impress people with how little we wanted to impress them. But the point is that we left this pervasive imprint on society that there's something

noble in not caring what other people think of you. There isn't. It's easy to think that when you're socially confined to like a high school in the rural South or a neighborhood in Utah. In those situations, an impenetrable sense of self-worth is a fucking survival mechanism for a lot of people. But in the wider world, if everybody hates you, it's either because you're an asshole or because everybody else is, right? Now, I want to be clear. I didn't add or everyone else's as a joke there i added it because that actually happens we call it bigotry right there are definitely people in every culture that the larger society treats with unwarranted derision and we should never overlook that even rhetorically but when you set that aside and you look at a person ostracized by the larger society

because of their actions that's just societal ethics working the way they're supposed to. Despite my generation's desperate protestations, that's so foundational to society that you might even say that that's what the word society means, that enforcement. Now, in Gen X's defense, we grew up in a world where those guardrails were in the hands of prudish insanity and had been turned against harmless profanities and discussions about sex. But in the emerging culture of today, they're far more often turned against slurs and sexist discussions. There are still plenty of Christians desperately scrambling to take control of what's deemed acceptable.

Of course, there's at least a million moms worth worth if you believe Monica Cole, but they're failing. You can tell they're failing because they're complaining about cancel culture instead of spearheading it. As secularists, we need to embrace that role and the responsibilities that come with it. We need to stand in defense of cancel culture because to do so is to stand in defense of culture. And to abandon that responsibility is to cede it. And believe me, there are plenty of groups that can't be trusted with that tool, dying to pick it up the second we put it down. And when they wield it, we're no longer governed by the sometimes feckless whim of the crowd. We're governed by the entirely fabricated will of God. Our morals, our society's morals, instead of being derived through the imperfect democracy of the

social milieu, are dictated by the impenetrable logic of the suecos. Because in practice, there's no difference between being accountable to God and being accountable to no one. They're talking about your Jesus. We interrupt this broadcast and bring you a special news bulletin.

Joining me for headlines tonight are the Alnitak and Alnilam to Maimon Takahithenright and Eli Bosnick. Fellas, are you ready to hit below the belt? Okay, well, I'm ready to talk about Lauren Boebert and Beetlejuice. Lots of below the belt stuff there, right? Well done, dude. Well done. Orion's Belt is the reference. Thank you, Heath. I was pretty sure we were back to the Zelda bosses again.

So thank you for helping me out. All right. Well, now I need a minute to relive my tears of the kingdom glory day. So we're going to pause for a word from this week's first sponsor. Hello, fresh. Hi, I'm the wool dash a missile and I'm no illusions. You know, it's never too early to start preparing for your feast before the wild hunt. I know, I know.

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That's why I, Heath Enright, the strawberry right now, personally endorse HelloFresh. All right, well, I'm sold. Where do I sign up? Go to HelloFresh.com slash 50scathing and use code 50scathing for 50% off plus 15% off for the next two months. So I go to HelloFresh.com slash 50scathing and use code 50scathing for 50% off plus 15% off for the next two months. So I go to hellofresh.com slash 50scathing and use the code 50scathing for 50% off plus 15%

off the next two months? That's right. Thanks. Which strawberry in the fridge is he? The one that steals your points. It still counts. That's in the rules. It still counts. And now back to the headlines. In our lead story tonight in Die Another Davis News. If this nation of ours has had a lesson, a moral, if you will, since 2020, fuck around and find out is up there as a contender. Proud boys are heading to jail for a quarter century long sentences. The usual suspects are getting multiple mugshots. And this week, the gay couple Kim Davis denied a marriage license to was officially awarded $100,000 of her money right in her goddamn face.

Stupid face. Great stuff. This couple, they need to get a big tub, turn that into like a convertible SUV type thing that you can see, and make that money into singles. Be following Kim Davis around everywhere, just rolling around in that money. Yeah, right. Just everywhere

she goes. Right, and I'll tell you what, guys. Send me your address and I will print you out a fake $100,000 receipt for lube and rainbow flags that you can send out. This is where your money went, lady. Exactly. So for those of you unfamiliar with Kim Davis, welcome to the show.

Noah's the smart one. I'm the funny one. Heath's unable to join us this week. So way back in the bygone year 2015, when I weighed 50 pounds less than Donald Trump is going to be president was still funny. Kim Davis was the clerk of Rowan County, Kentucky. And despite her three personal divorces, she had very strong feelings about biblical marriage. So when David Ermold and David Moore came in for their marriage license, she refused. So then she lost in court and then she went to jail for five days for playing i'm not listening jesus is my bailiff and now at long last she kim davis personally owes these fine fine gentlemen one hundred thousand dollars nice yeah so again that's good news but somehow the other set of plaintiffs got nothing

and it's bullshit james yates and Will Smith, not that one, some other guy, they also had their human rights denied by Kim Davis, but some legal bullshit means they deserve infinitely less compensation apparently. I'm guessing it was an argument that Yates and Smith knew about Kim Davis ahead of time and chose her office on purpose, but I'm pretty sure the first couple did that too. But none of this should matter. If you're a bigot doing illegal bigot stuff and people find a way to run up your bill on a technicality, that's great. You have a giant bill now.

Yeah. Like that's how it needs to work. If you vandalize a synagogue and then the rabbi parks a big synagogue van in front of your house and it says like, Dewey McJu van, please don't vandalize on the side in big writing. And then you spray paint another swastika. You don't get out of the second crime because it was like bigot entrapment in some sense.

That's absurd. Sure. Yeah. Yes. I have to say, I feel like Heath is 70% offended on behalf of gay rights and 30% offended on behalf of a really good loophole, right? Like that. Of course.

Yeah. It's two passions. Yeah. So as is always the case, when the heartfelt, deep, and abiding beliefs of devout religious bigots meet their wallets, Kim Davis doesn't mean it anymore. She tried to appeal her case to our insane Supreme Court in 2020,

and even those motherfuckers turned her down. Now she has apparently tried to fundraise the money from multiple sources, including many of the politicians who stood in solidarity with her back in the day. But as of this recording, at least, it didn't look like she was having much luck on the money side of things. You see, the thing about being a political prop is once the play is over, you usually end up in the garbage. And I think that suits Miss Davis just fine. Aww.

Next up in headlines in a Presbyterian news. Nice. Thanks to Pastor Jim Jackson of Richmond Hill Presbyterian Church, we have some very important new information about the pros and cons of slavery. In particular, the pros from a white pastor in the American South. Great. We already learned from the new Florida history curriculum about the robust vocational training that was provided free of charge by plantation owners. But now we have a new angle. Historians were forgetting about the important things that white people learned from the slaves that they were enslaving, including arts and crafts, soul food, and their fun music. Oh, yeah.

We can't exactly steal music from ourselves. So, yeah, no, it makes. Okay. Why am I picturing him reading this list surrounded by black panthers just pouring sweat because that's what i'm envisioning a lot of throat clearing and a big thanks to stormy d for the link and also for the delightful portmanteau a presbyterian such good stuff just because of that word play in the subject line i knew we were going to do this story regardless of what it was about right that was so true we kind of have to do that now. All right. So here's what Pastor Jim

Jackson had to say. Quote, in recent weeks, we've heard a great deal of controversy related to proposed public school books. Controversy arose because one book suggests that American slaves learned some salvageable skills from their owners. For some folk, that seems to suggest that slavery had a positive side, almost ignoring the cruelty of that infamous institution. I began thinking in the opposite direction, rough. We white folk have actually learned some valuable lessons from those black victims and their descendants, end quote. When I came to this red line of racism i could have turned back sure but instead i turned sideways for some goddamn

okay so you're probably wondering at this point what the fuck would all that mean what the fuck would that mean that is my question well he continued quote what would that mean? I have a few suggestions. Me too, man. Me too. Pop in if you want, Eli. He continued,

of course, we may only learn these things if we are willing. Are you willing to learn his suggestions? I don't think I am, actually. I don't think I am. Okay, we're going to do them anyway, but that's fair.

I may not learn them. We've been through more. He continues. Those slaves have taught us how to make good and even tasty food out of what was not wanted by their owners. I speak of things like internal organs of beef and pork. Today, it's called soul food. Oh, my God. Don't say that.

It has a unique and prized flavor for many people of various races. Thanks to those captives for their ingenuity in making something good out of near nothing. End quote. And then him from the future appeared out of a portal behind him and snapped his neck. Right. It's the only way this works out well. He also mentioned all those quote heartwarming spirituals according to jackson again quote that music just won't let you stand still

so now i'm saying you have good rhythm how could that be insulting it's so close to that it's so close to that i'm just picturing him looking down at his notes. Let's see what else is good about slavery. That's a literal moment in his life recently. Just now, skit and scene. And most importantly, it's all about having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That's the big overarching point he's making. Pastor Jimmy said again, quote, more important than anything I mentioned, those slaves taught us how dreams can become reality if one trusts our Lord, doesn't lose heart and works for positive change. Yes, it's costly having cost the freedom and lives of many. And that's where he thought he had a follow-up, like, to finish that setup thing that he did.

But he did not. That was the end. Oh, really? Yeah, that was the end of that point. He just wraps it up by saying, MLK was Christian also, so I nailed it. Yep, got it. Seriously, that's the end of his point. And on that note, we're going to pause for a word from our other sponsor this week, Stamps.com.

Lou, Lou, Lou, Doing Eli stuff. Eli stuff is my favorite stuff. Hey, Eli. What's with all the envelopes? Yeah, these are a lot. Oh, I'm actually taking care of our Patreon fulfillment for the year. You are? These don't look like bingo cards and books.

Oh, they're not. They're Tim's home address. Okay. Why are you sending everyone Tim's home address? Great question. Well, I figured getting to the post office and sending everyone all their stuff is going to be such a hassle. It'd be much easier if people just stop by Tim's house and get it when they're passing through town. That's definitely not the solution. But Eli, if you need help with all your shipping, why not try stampsamps.com? What's Stamps.com? Stamps.com has been helping businesses like ours save time and money for 25 years.

And it can help you get ready for the holiday ramp up. Oh yeah? How so? With Stamps.com, all you need is a computer and printer. They even send you a free scale so you'll have everything you need to get started. And now, taking care of orders on the go is even easier with the Stamps.com mobile app. If you need a package pickup, you can easily schedule it through your Stamps.com dashboard. And if you sell products online, Stamps.com seamlessly connects with every major marketplace and shopping cart. Wow, that does sound easy, but will it save me money? It sure will. Get huge carrier discounts up to 84% off USPS and UPS rates to help your bottom line with stamps.com.

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Just go to stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the page and enter the code scathing. Nice. Eli, most the microphone at the top of the page, and enter the code SCATHING. Nice. Eli, most of these are just an address and the phrase, if you want your stuff, you'll have to tackle me down and remove it from under my shirt. I'm Tim. Well, I wanted to make it exciting.

Exciting, yeah. A man wrote the Bible? A whore is what you want. If it's a legitimate race. Then you're a slut, right? Cooking can be fun. Hey, I'm proud of a man. This week in Misogyny.

I don't know about y'all, but I cannot wait for the live Godawful Movies in Las Vegas on October 28th. Tickets available at GodawfulMoviesLive.com or follow the link on the show notes. And not just because it means I get to go to Vegas. It's also because that's when we're finally going to hear the guys tear all the way into the testament to male power fantasy that is Sound of Freedom. That is, of course, the heavily, one might even say entirely, fictionalized cinematic account of a dude named Tim Ballard who claims to go around the world with his paramilitary group rescuing sex traffic children. He can't prove any of this of course but he can presumably get most of the way through his story about it without yelling pew pew and doing an explanatory dive

roll. So that's enough for the Christian right. They made this movie lionizing him even though virtually every actual expert in child trafficking in the world came out and said, this is nothing like reality and this movie is so misleading that it's going to take resources away from legitimate, effective efforts to help the victims and redirect them to aging veterans' delusions of gallantry. Ever since the movie came out, we've been getting a steady trickle of information showing that the film's producers, stars, and even real-life subject are way shittier than even we expected them to be. And the latest drip in that trickle comes in the form of at least seven women accusing Tim Ballard of sexually inappropriate behavior. who is apparently gearing up for a Senate run, denies it, of course, but several women who don't know each other have come forward with very similar stories wherein they agreed to play the part of his wife in sting operations

just to have him pressure them to sleep in the same bed with him and even showering with him. And I should point out that these seven women are just the accusers that are former employees of his organization, or rather the organization that he started but stepped away from in circumstances that are getting less and less mysterious by the day. The point is that according to Vice, there are several more allegations from volunteers for the organization.

In fact, his reputation has gotten so bad that even the Mormon church wants nothing to do with him. has gotten so bad that even the Mormon church wants nothing to do with him. And that's all the more fucked up when you consider the fact that they're still willing to associate themselves with the Mormon church. But no, apparently they formally disowned him. Now, they're obviously not disassociating with him because he used an uneven power dynamic to pressure multiple women into sleeping with him. They can't condemn that without condemning Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and virtually every historical Mormon on record. But they did get sick of his lies, including lies about being affiliated with their church and working directly with high-ranking Mormon officials who insist he never had anything to do with their church beyond tithing to it. Anyway, there's obviously a lot more to say on this story, but for all of that, you'll

have to come see us in Vegas or wait until the following Tuesday when that episode is released on the RSS feed. Anyway, on that note, I'll wrap things up and hand you back over to Noah, Heath and Eli. Thank you, Lucinda. And in heavy on the lie, light on the brary news. Fantastic. I get that in the grand scheme of things,

the proceedings of the Board of Trustees for the Post Falls Idaho Community Library Network might not seem all that significant to you, but every blow to the chisel counts. So when the chair of said Board of Trustees argued in multiple meetings that the local library should be shut down on Sundays in order to keep the Sabbath holy,

America's United for the Separation of Church and State stepped in, as did the Freedom from Religion Foundation. And we're going to talk about it. Oh, shit. It's strongly worded letter time. Squinting in the air. I mean, to be fair, Heath, I keep trying to radicalize our audience to violence, but you cowards keep beeping it out. We sure do. We have other options.

We sure do. Come on, everybody. So, yeah, so this is the story of Rochelle Otteson, who, along with two other ultra-conservative maggots, took over the five-person board a few months ago by running on the book-banning ticket. And since then, their primary focus has been on keeping anything that confirms the existence and or humanhood of LGBTQ people out of the children and teens section and trying to disaffiliate from the American Library Association for having, quote, a clear animosity and resentment towards the family and traditional religious values, end quote. And of course, by traditional religious values, they mean homophobia. Hey, religion, I know you're listening. If the Association of Organized Information, basically, they seem to have a clear animosity towards you. That's because they do. And so does the concept of information.

Yeah. What did we learn? Yes. Y'all ever noticed that big alphabet contains both gay and LGBTQ? I think it's time we push back. So in a July meeting that was ostensibly about cutting costs, the board discussed the possibility of closing the seven libraries that they oversee on Sundays,

and two-thirds of them remembered to cite secular reasons like cost savings. But Odison couldn't help bringing up Jesus' dad and reminded the assembly that, quote, the Lord blesses people who keep the Sabbath day holy, end quote. At which point, another member reminded her that blessing or no, her personal religious beliefs can't dictate policy since the library system is for everybody, not just for the Christians. In another meeting, five days later, she did it again, this time actually citing chapter and verse. And again, she was politely reminded that her religious beliefs didn't belong in the discussion. And then the board voted three to two to close on Sundays.

Come on. All right. Here's something that a person in Post Falls, Idaho should not do. Interesting. I'm saying they should not crawl through the ductwork of a library and drop into the building on a rope like it's impossible and then check out one book and then summon a demon and put that all on video i'm saying don't do that that would not be super funny and go viral and we would not support it a whole bunch don't do that yeah i'd just love to know which chapter and verse she cited because if i remember correctly my boy timothy is pretty sure i get to stone her

to death for that shit i don't think it goes quite that far but yeah now to be clear regardless of why they voted to close the law is already broken here right even if they could somehow prove that oddison's remarks influenced their decision not at all the very fact that she entered them into the record during the debate was already a violation of church-state separation, which is what Americans United and the FFRF stepped in to remind them. At that point, the board's attorney informed them that they were almost certainly going to get the city sued,

so they then voted 4-1 to table the closures and nullify the earlier vote. So, small victory and all, but you gotta plug every hole in the dam, so kudos to the secular watchdogs that did the work. Strongly worded letters that did the work Strongly worded letters Fuck yeah Oh that's a new sting

Morgan, Anna Strongly worded letters New sting On my desk Monday morning Strongly worded letters Oh we've got it Nevermind Morgan, Anna you're off Morgan just save that clip And finally tonight the word in letters. Oh, we've got it. Never mind, Morgan. Anna, you're off.

Never mind, Morgan. Just save that clip. We got it. And finally tonight in Achilles heel turn news. I used to be a big fan of NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers. He's one of the only professional athletes

who's openly atheist and he's really good at throwing a ball. End of the good list. Every single thing that we've learned about this guy over the last five years or so has been absolutely terrible. Yeah. And here's the latest addition. After tearing his Achilles tendon exactly three minutes into his $112.5 million contract with the New York Jets,

Rogers was immediately done for the entire season. And a few days later, we learned about his recovery plan. He's going to be hanging out at his house on the beach in Malibu, California, soaking up all the musical healing power of dolphin fucking. Dolphin fucking, exactly. It's as

though ever since the atheist thing came out, he's been actively disassociating himself from our show particularly. I never should have sent him my pitch for getting girthy without God workout video series. That's on me. It's on me. And a big thanks to April Poff for the story.

Skatingnews.gmail.com. All right. So normally I don't ooh-ooh because I smoked a pack and a half a day for 30 years. But for April, I will do my best. Ooh-ooh. That's right. Ooh ooh! So, Aaron Rodgers, he's a perfect case study on the abysmal state of critical thinking skills in America right now.

Despite the big head start on epistemology that he had of not being religious, he still ends up believing horribly stupid things all the time. That includes believing the COVID vaccine was a bad idea. We know that because he lied about being vaccinated, during which time he was spreading COVID, I'm sure of it. And then he got caught in that lie. And then he explained that he gets his epidemiology information from Joseph Rogan. Yeah.

Then he somehow made it worse. he declared himself a big fan of ayn rand we learned that next he's doing an interview on zoom from his house and during that moment we saw his copy of atlas shrugged right behind him he also said he was a big fan of french poetry obvious lie during the segment and we got to see his bobblehead of chuck norris that he owns yes displays yes prominently yeah chuck norris bobbleheads and love of french poetry being such familiar bed and more recently we learned that he believes in a well future topic for how bullshit is it called darkness retreats that's when you pay to live alone in a completely dark cave shack for like five days and have someone give you food through a little slot

otherwise you're just by yourself in the dark aaron rogers is pretty sure that experience improves your health somehow sure improve the It improved the health of the Green Bay's roster. 8% of our audience truly gets that joke. I still, I can't help it. It's a good, it's good. He was in there. Yeah, sorry.

He thinks the manner in which our prison system tortures prisoners for being naughty is health improving? Well, worse than that, but yeah. Right.

I can't wait till he tells us about the bar of soap massage next week. God. And that brings us to last week. Rodgers appeared on the Pat McAfee show to discuss his recovery from the injury. And he said he might be back on the field in January if the Jets make the playoffs. And only slightly less crazy than that, he decided to reference the How Bullshit segment from last month and tout a special form of dolphin therapy that we actually didn't mention. He said, quote, there's ideas that some of the noises from the dolphins when they're lovemaking, the frequency of that is actually healing to the body, end quote.

All right. Well, whoever first proposed that theory did it to explain why his dick was in a blowhole then. 100%, yeah. Oh, this? Is music therapy. Shut up. I want to be alone.

And just to be clear, Aaron Rodgers definitely listens to the show. I'm sure of it now. And he clearly heard about dolphin assisted therapy and he thought to himself, okay, that sounds crazy, but hold on. What if the dolphins were fucking?

Now, I have to assume the Jets are paying one of their backup quarterbacks to dress up as a, quote, really hot dolphin and swim around near Aaron Rodgers' dock in Malibu. And that is far from the worst financial decision made by the New York Jets

this year. Yeah, by a while. Yeah. And with a thousand still a better contract than Joe Burrow jokes dying on my tongue, I suppose we're going to close the headlines for the night. Heath, Eli, thanks as always. Jumanji. E-E-E-E-E-Fence. And when we come back,

we'll welcome in the executive director of the Creator Accountability Network. I thought you were going to do Jumanji. E-E-E-E-E-E-E-E. Oh, that was good. Oh, that's good too. Yep. Good stuff.

Back in February of this year, our community was rocked by allocations of sexual harassment against a regular guest and minority partner on our show. It was conservatively the billionth time a prominent man in the movement was credibly accused of similar behavior. But somehow, it was the first time that many people in our direct community, myself included, really realized that it could happen here too. Well, in the wake of that situation, an organic movement started among listeners to our shows and the shows that constitute our broader podcast family to try to put something in place to maybe do something about the billion and first similar accusation. After a lot of time and effort from some very dedicated volunteers, a group started to emerge from that effort

called the Creator Accountability Network. And to tell us more about that, I'm excited to welcome the group's most indefatigable volunteer and its executive director, Sarah Tulin. Sarah, welcome to the show. Hi, Noah. Thanks so much for having me.

I've really been looking forward to this interview for a long time. So first of all, on behalf of myself and the whole Piat family, thank you so much for all that you and the other volunteers have been doing behind the scenes on this thing for the last seven months. Absolutely. This is something that every one of us is deeply passionate about.

And together, we've been riding that wave of energy to accomplish everything that we've done so far. All right. So in your own words, what is the Creator Accountability Network? So the Creator Accountability Network is our response to a problem being faced in most communities who have struggled to address harmful and unethical behavior. Without oversight, community members have been forced to rely on whisper networks or kind of like the court of public opinion to get issues resolved or even heard. And we've witnessed harm fester and grow. People become ostracized or leave the community and entire communities are very negatively impacted. So in the hopes of creating a better

mechanism for addressing problems like this, a couple of groups of volunteers came together to form a nonprofit dedicated to empowering community members and content creators to foster healthier and safer communities. And we plan to do that by coming at the problems from a few different angles. So proactively, we're seeking to prevent harmful behavior through an ethical training and accreditation program that we've developed for content creators, wherein they also sign an agreement to uphold a code of conduct that's been created by our ethics team. More on that later. When harm does occur, we will have a victim-centered reporting system for community members to report unethical or harmful behaviors to. After that behavior is

reported and investigated, and we know as many facts as are available, we plan to engage in a restorative process that focuses on healing through active accountability. All right, so what are the group's, we'll talk a little bit about the long-term vision in a moment, what are the group's immediate goals? So in the short term, we would like to begin training and accrediting content creators and having them sign on to that code of conduct within a month or two. Sometime this winter, we would like to be ready to start taking and investigating reports from community members. How fast we can actually do that really depends on whether we get the volunteer response that we need and are able to fill some key positions

sooner rather than later. So one of our program leads, Justin Woodruff, very suddenly and tragically passed away this summer. They were a wonderful person, an amazing team member, and were so valuable. They were so thoughtful and so well-suited for their role.

Filling their shoes feels like a really tall order, member and were so valuable. They were so thoughtful and so well-suited for their role. Filling their shoes feels like a really tall order, but we're at the point in our development where it's a necessity. So once we find the right volunteers, the timeline for when we'll be able to launch each program should be more clear, and then we'll have more announcements for the community and be able to kind of open each program on its own. Okay. So, you know, obviously we're still in our infancy here. We're, you know, the group is still looking for key volunteers, as you said,

but I'm curious how this is all going to work, right? Like, so you say that, you know, you're going to investigate, get all the facts available and engage in restorative justice. Like how, how? So there are two sides to this equation. There's what we do for content creators and there's what we do for members of their communities, and then how those two things essentially make possible what we are hoping to do.

with us, sign up with us. We will provide a code of conduct that creators will agree to uphold and promote and provide training to ensure that they fully understand those standards and have opportunities to ask questions and raise concerns. Essentially, if they're going to agree to meet and uphold this code of conduct, we want them to understand it inside and out and have very little doubt as to what they're signing on to. We will investigate reports of violations of that code by creators using restorative justice practices. That involves engagement with both the accuser and the accused so that you are getting both sides of a story. You are finding, you know, are there bystanders? Are there screenshots? Things like that. But all that information is gathered at the same time through an investigation process as opposed to coming out

whenever people post it in Facebook group. Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's just the thing is that it's generally speaking going, I would assume in most instances, except, you know, the most heinous of them, it's going to be in everyone's best interest for some sort of organized investigation to be leading the way there. Yeah. We have all the facts together before, you know, any steps are taken whatsoever. And then we'll address any substantiated violations using restorative justice approaches that prioritize education, facilitated communication. So there might need to be like some communication between the person who made the report, but the organization can facilitate that communication through writing, I think is my

preference. And then through restorative agreements and ways that we're figuring out how do we resolve this, how do we repair any harm that was done, things like that. So, you know, that's what we're doing for the creator's side of thing, and they're kind of like one side of the coin. And the other side of things is the reporting system kind of like one side of the coin. And the other side of things is the reporting system for community members who want to report like, hey, I think that this content creator did something that violates their code of conduct.

We will provide a secure reporting system through our website where anyone can report potential violations of our code of conduct. So they don't need to be sure. They can make a report, even if they are like, maybe it violates it because we can look into it and do our fact finding afterwards.

We'll provide certified victim advocates to help community members understand all of the potential outcomes of making that report so that they can make informed decisions that are in their own best interest. We will connect people making reports to services in their area if they need that. So if they need legal services, if they need to find a local victim advocate who understands their local laws better, we can connect them with whatever they need. And we will provide a hotline that is staffed by victim advocates during CAN accredited live events. So if something happens at a live event, there's a number they can call.

And give them their options for choosing the level of engagement that they would like to have in the restorative process that's right for them. So with these two different prongs here, you've got creators agreeing in advance to a certain standard of behavior and agreeing that if they violate it in certain ways that they will engage with us in the restorative approach to resolving these violations. They are giving us the ability to actually do something with the reports that the community members make. We can actually focus on repairing the harm for the person who was impacted by it, rather than like them having to speak out publicly and risk lawsuits while desperately trying to get enough people to care until the offender gets canceled by the community. Because up until now, those have been some of the only options.

Right. Yeah. As became painfully obvious, as always, after the fact, or as I should say, all too often after the fact. So if you would, you've spoken a lot about restorative justice here. For people who aren't familiar with the term or have just heard it in passing, can you tell us a little bit more about what that means? What is restorative justice as opposed to just justice? So I want to push back a little bit on just the idea that there's any such thing as just justice. There are a lot of different justice models. Like there's retributive justice, where the idea is that justice is served when the offender is harmed at least as much, if not more than the person they harmed. So it's that kind of

like trying to hurt somebody else to get vengeance a little bit. The two wrongs make a right. Yeah, get vengeance a little bit. The two wrongs make a right. Yeah, right. Eye for an eye. So restorative justice is a more progressive justice model. It's one that focuses on repairing harm. So helping the person who was harmed rather than inflicting harm on somebody else. And it values the needs and outcomes of both parties or everyone involved. So it values everybody in the community, which includes the person who maybe caused the harm. So under our model, we would seek to identify and meet the needs of the person who's making the report and see, you know, what do they need? What could possibly reduce or repair the harm that they experienced. And then we would also want the person who is being reported to understand the impact of their behavior on that person. So engaging that empathy and that understanding and then identify

on the behalf of that person, what's the root cause of that behavior? Did they have a belief that the ends justified the means in that situation? Or was there a misunderstanding? Or were they not educated enough on a topic? Finding out the root cause of something makes it so that we can address and correct it, and then find ways for them to help repair whatever harm that they caused. We can also ask where possible that creators share any education that they receive so that others can benefit from it or not duplicate their mistakes. And that will also help the community be healthier as a result. So no part of that is about punishing anyone. And in fact,

it prioritizes the well-being of both parties and seeks to repair relationships and trust and keep both parties in the community. Everyone benefits and the community at large also benefits. Wow. And they still accuse us of cancel culture. Okay. No, no, that's awesome. I'm really excited to hear about the approach. I will say before I started talking with you guys about this whole thing, I wasn't familiar with the concept of restorative justice. And man, does that kick the shit out of the punitive version that most people think of as just default justice. So, okay, I want to shift gears here a little bit. In the aftermath of the whole situation in February,

we as a company, we started looking into ways to outsource sexual harassment complaints and the other kind of basic HR functions that we can't have because we're such a small company. And what we found is that there are actually a lot of options available for that, but they're all very much geared towards protecting the company and its legal liability, even if that is at the expense of a victim. So what assurances do our listeners have that can isn't going to turn into some like a similar cover your ass type thing? Sure. So first and foremost, I guess I would say as a nonprofit, there's no company for us to be beholden to. Our funding is coming from donors within the communities that we serve.

And we are beholden only to our mission, which is to empower our communities to build trust with content creators through the systems of support and accountability that I mentioned before. Because we are interested in preventing harm and healing damage when it happens and educating and restoring relationships and just generally fostering healthier communities when we can. and just generally fostering healthier communities when we can. We don't usually have to make a binary choice to sacrifice either the concern for the person who's making the report or the well-being, livelihood, career of the person who's being reported. We don't have to choose who to harm versus who to help. We get to bring both to the table. And the end result is that creators are given a mechanism by which to

genuinely repair harm if they have caused it, avoid causing it in the future, and community members' reports actually get to be addressed and can help the whole community be safer and help it be a lot more welcoming of a place for them. It's not to say that there are no red lines wherein we won't withdraw accreditation from somebody. There are, I think, obviously going to have to be hard lines where certain behaviors are considered to be too harmful or someone is a repeat offender. They are going through a restorative process, but then continuing to violate their code of conduct repeatedly. Things like that, where it becomes more obvious that this person is not really engaging in a restorative justice model. Right. Okay, so let's actually speak to that a little bit, too.

Because for this to work, obviously, you need the cooperation of content creators. And as much as I'd love to say that their sense of self-preservation would never outweigh their obligation to community safety, the past strongly suggests otherwise, right? Now, I think you've already done this to a large degree here, but for any of the content creators that might be listening along, give me your pitch. Why should they support and join the Creator Accountability Network? All right. So here are some of the ways that our restorative justice approach to accountability and conflict resolution will benefit creators as well as their communities. We provide a clear set of community-supported

ethical standards and an accountability system to motivate creators to uphold those standards. and an accountability system to motivate creators to uphold those standards. It's easy to, you know, you're just living your life and you're just doing what you do. And sometimes you're, let's say, in a bad mood or not really thinking too hard about something. Signing up to uphold a code of conduct in and of itself motivates better behavior. Even if we generally think that our behavior is pretty good, simply codifying it, simply writing it down, simply stating, here's what I will and won't do, motivates better behavior. Likewise, unionizing or banding together around a set of standards exerts peer pressure on other creators who might not be naturally inclined to meet all those standards. So it

raises the bar for safety and ethical behavior throughout our communities. It protects, and when I say it, I mean like our organization can protect creators from unsubstantiated accusations, witch hunts, or trial in the court of public opinion. You know, we have talked about the only way for people to get information out there so far is just to either access a whisper network and kind of pass things along in secret or post it in a Facebook group and hope enough people believe you, hope enough people are swayed. Information comes out little by little. You don't get to hear from the other side. People are making their minds up after seeing only half of the information.

So this offers a great deal of protection to creators simply because that doesn't happen. Right. simply because that doesn't happen. It provides a safe and constructive way to engage with feedback and address unethical behaviors in ways that promote honesty and self-reflection and education and the repairing of harm. I think that when we hurt somebody else and we realize it, like we would like to make it better. Sometimes the way that things come out makes it pretty hard to do that. We help make their communities safer and more welcoming,

which makes it easier for creators to connect with and grow their audiences. We provide resources for networking with other creators and organizations who share that commitment to ethical behavior. So for instance, some organizations are very interested in finding out what creators do we recommend? What creators do we support?

Sure. There's increased visibility and engagement with new audience members who are looking to support creators who share their values. And I just want to say, signing on with us, it's not saying you're perfect.

It's saying that if you fall short of your ideals You would like to know about it and make it right It's a commitment to your audiences and your community members that if and when you make mistakes You want those people to have somewhere safe that they can go to for help getting it addressed And it's not going to turn around and bite you. It's going to help you. Well said. Wow. Like I said, I thought, you know, I was like, well, you know, she's already addressed plenty of points on this. There's probably not much left to say. And boy, was I wrong. All right. So I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves here. Obviously, there's a lot. You guys are biting off a lot already. But what are the long terms for CAN? Where do you see the organization going in the future? So we have some services that we intend to offer over time. We don't want to bite

off more than we can chew, but we have lofty goals and aspirations for the future. I think our first one is that we would like to have a 24-7 reporting hotline year round. We need more victim advocates to make that a reality, but that's a goal at the moment. We'd like to offer voluntary training and consulting and education materials. We've already had some organizations asking us for these things. We just don't want to get too big too fast. We want to get our feet under us before we start branching out. We would like to establish a victim defense fund so that if we have people who are victims of significant harm from our creators, we're able to help fund like do they have legal needs? Do they have mental health care costs? We'd like to have something available to help people.

We would also like to have grants to fund projects by minority and marginalized creators. When we think about who usually gets impacted by a lot of the harm that happens in communities like this, it tends to be minority and marginalized people. So we kind of feel like giving back to creators who might be more likely to experience harm or more likely to experience roadblocks and difficulties in growing their careers. Offering grants is one way to kind of help channel community funds to people who might need more support. And then service work and other restorative approaches to promoting ethical conduct in our communities. We've talked about creating a lot of different educational materials, even textbooks, things like that. But we'd like to get into some service work

as well. That's awesome. All right. Well, so obviously, we all know the two things that a charity needs first and foremost, that is time and money. Now, I know a lot of our listeners, when we first started talking about this back in February, expressed a desire to help this effort. How can they help now? Well, if you're interested in volunteering, we strongly encourage you to complete the form

on our website, creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org. There's a form there that you can fill out that specifies our volunteering needs. We have a special need for folks who have interest or experience in victim advocacy. If you are certified already or if you're willing to become certified. So to take a training and then come back and volunteer with us. Or if you have a background in social work, those things will be all helpful on the victim advocacy team. If you have a background in investigation, especially if you have a restorative justice background, but if you don't, that's okay. We can work with you. But we need folks who've got that experience

or education or just background in investigation. Mediation, again, especially with restorative justice or mindfulness backgrounds. Totally separate from those things, database construction, management, and security. Oh, yeah, of course. Yep. And then public relations and community engagement. So I'm kind of our PR person at the moment. You're nailing it, by the way.

I just want to say on behalf of everybody listening, so far, so good. Thank you so much. Well, okay, then I'd like to hire anybody who just thinks they can do as good a job as me. There you go. And then anybody who's got any experience in nonprofit leadership, management of any kind. experience in nonprofit leadership management of any kind. We're just looking for people who have resources or education or experience that we can contribute to our pool. But if you don't have those things, don't let that stop you. Like, please come sign the volunteer list for us. And you just never know where we'll find a spot. We may need help on the ethics team.

where we'll find a spot. We may need help on the ethics team. We may need help with just research. We're expanding a lot. We were small in the beginning. We've got room for more now. So come sign up and we'll find a place for you. All right.

And what about those of us who might not have any useful skills whatsoever and certainly don't have any free time, but still want to help? Are you already a 501c3? Can you take donations? So we already a 501c3? Can you take donations? So we're a 501c3 pending, and it will probably be about six to eight months before the IRS gives us their little stamp of approval.

But we can take donations. But because we have to process them manually, we're currently just asking for large contributions. So our treasurer said a one-time contribution, like one-time gifts, maybe $5,000 or up. If you want to do recurring monthly, like $750 per month. Those smaller ones, like people wanting to donate just a little bit would probably get overwhelming because he has to put them all in manually like one at a time right so we're just trying to uh what does he have to do he has to like get the right to fundraise in all 50 states

oh okay well yeah no in a very specific way well you know what that's one of those things where like those things where if you've been in the atheist community for a long time, you're like, yeah, I'm glad there's red tape on this kind of shit, right? So, okay, so you're looking for volunteers more than money unless you're loaded. That's fine. That's fine. So every little bit doesn't help just yet. It will help soon. We will desperately need donations at a certain point.

We just also don't have the infrastructure to take them all yet. Well, and I should let the listeners know that I've been so eager to tell some. Now, I want to say I'm not directly involved in any of this. I was nominally involved in helping to introduce a few people

at the beginning that eventually became part of the working group that created this. Because of sort of my position vis-a-vis all the stuff that happened in February, I think we all agreed it was better if I stayed at arm's length. But I have been following along. I've been really excited and I've been really wanting to tell our listeners what's going on. So I may have pushed Sarah to be here a little earlier than the organization wanted to sort of make that first big public splash. So if you're wondering why that is, I'm sure that make that first big public splash. So if you're wondering why that is, I'm sure that factors into it a little bit.

No, honestly, this was perfect. This is the exact moment that we were finally able to be a little bit more public and we needed those volunteers so, so badly. This was the perfect time to do this. And especially to boost the volunteer request, we need people on deck. Excellent. Well, I'll tell you what, our listeners have never disappointed us when we've asked them for something like this. They have never disappointed. So I'm sure they'll be rushing to creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org. We'll have that linked in the show

notes, of course, for our listeners. Sarah, thanks again for your time. Thank you so much, Noah. Before we fade out tonight, I want to urge you one more time to check the show notes and sign up to volunteer for the Creator Accountability Network. You never know what kind of difference you could make. And if you expressed interest at the beginning and you didn't hear back from them, just remember that there was a tsunami of emails and interest back then and very few people to sort through all of it. So please be patient and give him another try. Anyway, that's all the blasphemy we've got for you tonight, but we're back in 10,022 minutes with more. If you can't wait that long,

be on the lookout for a brand new episode of our sister show, The Skeptocrat, debuting at 7 Eastern on Monday and an even newer episode of our sister show, Hot Friend, God of a Movie, debuting at 7 Eastern on Tuesday and an even newer episode of our half-sister show, Citation Needed, debuting at noon Eastern on Wednesday.

Obviously, I can't sleep at night if I neglect to thank Heath Enright for all the hell he raises. I want to thank Eli Bosnick for all the hell he's spent. I want to thank Lucinda Lusions for all the hell that hath no fury like her. I also want to thank Satan who does way more work around here than he gets credit for most of the time. I also want to thank Sarah once more for her time. I want to thank Elphys

for providing this week's Farnsworth quote. Get it? Elphys? Anyway, because we're apparently on a roll with kids book Farnsworth quotes, be sure to Elf-is? Anyway, because we're apparently on a roll with kids' book Farnsworth quotes, be sure to check the show notes for a link to pick up your copy of Elfis' story as well. But most of all, of course, I want to thank this week's best people,

Tom, Jim, Hata, Boring, Dan, Brett, a Thai resident Hindi expert, Soan, Yoon, Ken, PaleBlueDot, SquirgyBlurPerson, Disfenstered, Miranda, and Ben. Tom, Jin, Dan, Brett, and a Thai whose IQs are higher than Tim got at the weed-infused pizzeria over a pajama party weekend. Hindi experts, Dan, Brett, and Natai, whose IQs are higher than Tim got at the weed-infused pizzeria over pajama party weekend. Hindi experts

So1, Ken, and Dot, who are also too sexy for Right Sad Fred's shirt. And Scourgy, Svenster, Miranda, and Ben, who are so strong, weights brag about how much of them they can push down. Together, these 13 lucky people, core competencies, and decidedly mellifluous nonsense phrases help to make another generation godless this

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